< 1277596801 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is psox? < 1277596812 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: it's a layer over various languages, designed for esoteric ones < 1277596821 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that layers FS, socket, and other devices over byte IO < 1277596822 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah link? < 1277596829 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none, just an svn repository < 1277596836 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lost interest, sorry Sgeo < 1277596844 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did I guess! < 1277596859 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can help with M5 if you need it, though :-) < 1277596864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277596923 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar, no problem, I lost interest in 2008 < 1277596949 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No docs, no dice < 1277596955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are docs < 1277596959 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1277597016 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec < 1277597030 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see an esoteric language for image generation, specifically targeted towards data obfuscation as in Captchas < 1277597200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dice 1d6 < 1277597200 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have greppable logs? AnMaster? < 1277597201 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin/d* < 1277597218 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/define < 1277597234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!dice 1d6 < 1277597234 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 6 < 1277597246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1277597247 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1277597254 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1277597255 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!dice no < 1277597255 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: < 1277597260 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277597264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^dice 1d6 < 1277597270 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you got greppable logs? < 1277597276 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Yeah < 1277597283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit i'm _sure_ one of the bots has a dice command < 1277597304 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: grep "(alise|ehird) DownRight pastie" recently plz, i wanna find my downright syntax for ais523 < 1277597317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin < 1277597319 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram < 1277597324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277597328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`roll 1d6 < 1277597329 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1277597338 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, that's the easy way < 1277597360 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo -e '1\n2\n3\n4\n5\n6' | shuf -n 1 < 1277597362 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-e '1\n2\n3\n4\n5\n6' | shuf -n 1 < 1277597369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha? < 1277597375 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's mah pipe < 1277597378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: need run < 1277597384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '1\n2\n3\n4\n5\n6' | shuf -n 1 < 1277597387 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1277597390 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: All I get for grep 'DownRight.*pastie' is 10.06.26:16:08:24 Gregor: grep "(alise|ehird) DownRight pastie" recently plz, i wanna find my downright syntax for ais523 < 1277597407 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well not on the same line < 1277597422 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? imdb Trolls < 1277597424 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep (alise|ehird)>.*downright case insensitively, with context < 1277597427 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!imdb Trolls < 1277597428 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then maybe grep the result for pastie < 1277597444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`imdb Trolls < 1277597447 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597449 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: grep -i downright doesn't find any pastes. < 1277597456 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`imdb Debbie Does Dallas < 1277597457 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597469 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: grep -i -B 100 downright | grep pastie < 1277597471 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`imdb Dude Where's My Car < 1277597472 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597483 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Samuel L. Jackson < 1277597484 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597486 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kl;ajsd < 1277597487 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: The `imdb command is unmaintained and almost certainly broken :P < 1277597488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: lots of those commands are broken, although i didn't know imdb was (all the google-based ones are) < 1277597502 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: No results. < 1277597512 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Abuh? Just grep downright and give dates then, please :P < 1277597521 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`roll < 1277597523 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1277597527 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`roll < 1277597529 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1277597532 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? < 1277597533 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like big butts and I cannot lie. You other brothers can not deny that when a girl comes in with an itty bitty waist and a round thing in your face, you get sprung. < 1277597540 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOT DAMN < 1277597541 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what XD < 1277597542 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovin it < 1277597542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1277597548 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/? < 1277597549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder who programmed that in < 1277597549 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh \ cd `dirname "$0"` \ cat ../help.txt < 1277597556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fortune < 1277597556 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat help.txt < 1277597559 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like big butts and I cannot lie. You other brothers can not deny that when a girl comes in with an itty bitty waist and a round thing in your face, you get sprung. < 1277597565 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspicious < 1277597567 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: 10.01.10 10.03.20 10.03.21 10.05.01 10.06.26 < 1277597568 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1277597569 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1277597574 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fortune < 1277597578 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have no friends not equal to yourself. \ -- Confucius < 1277597584 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortune's Law of the Week (this week, from Kentucky): \ No female shall appear in a bathing suit at any airport in this \ State unless she is escorted by two officers or unless she is armed \ with a club. The provisions of this statute shall not apply to females \ weighing less than 90 pounds nor exceeding 200 pounds, < 1277597593 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/a4fee630c6ff/help.txt < 1277597600 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 months HackBot run echo 'I like big butts and I cannot lie. You other brothers can not deny that when a girl comes in with an itty bitty waist and a round thing in your face, you get sprung.' > help.txt < 1277597600 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 months HackBot run echo "Use 'commands' to see available commands." > help.txt < 1277597600 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 months HackBot run echo 'Commands are: addquote, calc, creatures, define, esolang, etymology, fortune, google, helpme, imdb, minifind, paste, quote, runfor, sayhi, strfile, toutf8, translate, translatefromto, translateto, unstr, url, wolfram' > help.txt < 1277597602 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 months HackBot run echo help > help.txt < 1277597605 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the latest one is the best tbh < 1277597605 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, Confucius just told me to have no frends < 1277597622 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: :D < 1277597626 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`marco < 1277597627 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polo < 1277597630 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you can have yourself as a friend < 1277597632 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: WHO ADDED THAT < 1277597632 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`marco < 1277597634 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polo < 1277597646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I don't believe an object can be a friend with itself < 1277597654 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's prejudice. < 1277597656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it effectiely is by default, isn't it? < 1277597659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*effectively < 1277597668 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh yeah that's a vapid request < 1277597677 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey you know that stuff you can see, I want you to see all of it" < 1277597682 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are self-hating people :P < 1277597684 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's possible that Confucius meant something else, but, really, he should have read Euclid < 1277597695 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`penis < 1277597697 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597700 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1277597728 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals." >bin/penis < 1277597730 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597731 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals." >bin/vagina < 1277597732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I come in here mostly for the conversation these days. < 1277597733 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597734 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`penis < 1277597736 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597741 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "echo I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals." >bin/penis < 1277597742 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597748 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "echo \"I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals.\"" >bin/penis < 1277597749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`penis < 1277597750 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597751 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597754 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`haskell printStrLn "alise is a twat" < 1277597756 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597758 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell printStrLn "alise is a twat" < 1277597766 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "echo \"I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals.\"" >bin/penis < 1277597769 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah I need to learn haskell better < 1277597770 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597771 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: Um, fuck off? < 1277597785 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`penis < 1277597787 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597789 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/penis < 1277597790 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals." < 1277597793 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "#!/bin/sh\\necho \"I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals.\"" >bin/penis < 1277597793 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/penis < 1277597796 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597798 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, fail < 1277597800 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just needs +x < 1277597801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "No insults!" < 1277597804 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597804 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No insults! < 1277597805 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "echo \"I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals.\"" >bin/penis < 1277597806 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "echo \"I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals.\"" >bin/vagina < 1277597808 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597808 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/penis < 1277597809 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/vagina < 1277597814 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597815 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`penis < 1277597821 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597823 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`penis < 1277597827 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf why did yours work and not mine? < 1277597827 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals. < 1277597832 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597834 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597841 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: because you can't spell < 1277597846 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also oerjan isn't a twat-caller < 1277597849 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`vagina < 1277597850 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597854 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`vagina < 1277597855 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277597855 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597857 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffff < 1277597858 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putstrlin < 1277597859 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit < 1277597861 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "echo \"I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals.\"" >bin/vagina < 1277597862 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597866 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/vagina < 1277597867 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597874 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`vagina < 1277597875 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597904 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "#!/bin/sh\\necho \"I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals.\"" >bin/penis < 1277597906 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597906 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run penis < 1277597909 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals. < 1277597916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: print is for "arbitrary" values, not (just) strings < 1277597929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and puts quotes around strings) < 1277597949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for alise: < 1277597954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(she'll feel left out) < 1277597960 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cp bin/penis bin/vagina < 1277597962 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597989 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`vagina < 1277597992 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277597998 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1277598004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run vagina < 1277598006 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I don't recall genitals being included in the confusing nick-pronoun definition... < 1277598006 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598010 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But thanks for the vagina-hospitality :P < 1277598022 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think HackEgo has vagina protection. < 1277598024 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/penis < 1277598026 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh \ echo "I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals." < 1277598028 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/vagina < 1277598030 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals." < 1277598038 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you fail at hackego < 1277598039 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use `run cp < 1277598042 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cp bin/penis bin/vagina < 1277598042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, duh < 1277598043 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598045 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`vagina < 1277598046 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals. < 1277598058 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "#!/usr/bin/perl \n print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277598060 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598067 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`twat < 1277598068 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/twat < 1277598068 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: if you want to try to pass yourself off as a girl (which I will assume you do until I either hear otherwise or you change to a different nick), you have to go the distance < 1277598070 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598073 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`twat alise < 1277598075 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598077 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1277598079 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "#!/usr/bin/perl \n print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277598080 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598082 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598085 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Fine, fine, I am penisless. < 1277598092 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lo, ovaries. < 1277598102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O varies < 1277598103 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lovaries < 1277598115 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ovaries are, like, the sexiest part of the female anatomy. < 1277598125 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it any coincidence that female = Fe + male, and ovaries are primarily composed of iron? < 1277598132 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "#!/usr/bin/perl \n print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277598134 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598136 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/twat < 1277598137 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598138 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "#!/usr/bin/perl \n print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277598140 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598141 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`twat < 1277598143 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598143 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`twat alise < 1277598146 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598154 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`c puts("Rafajafar is a cunt.\n"); < 1277598155 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598157 0 :chickenzilla!~chicken@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1277598162 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why on earth didn't that work :P < 1277598164 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/usr/bin/perl " doesn't exist. < 1277598169 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Because you're looking for "!c" < 1277598173 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c puts("Rafajafar is a cunt.\n"); < 1277598173 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "#!/usr/sbin/perl \n print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277598175 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598177 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/twat < 1277598178 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar is a cunt. < 1277598179 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: I never tire. < 1277598182 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/usr/sbin/perl " doesn't exist either. < 1277598189 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put the quotes there for a very good reason. < 1277598200 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "#!bin/perl \n print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277598201 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598202 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is that QUOTES ARE SEXY. < 1277598204 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/twat < 1277598206 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598206 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: you are a moron < 1277598210 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have a really bad font < 1277598221 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a command to send a message to another bot and print the reply? < 1277598224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which perl < 1277598225 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/perl < 1277598229 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Uhh, no :P < 1277598235 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277598236 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1277598242 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo `echo poop < 1277598243 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo poop < 1277598244 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop < 1277598247 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough :P < 1277598256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it so does exist, which says < 1277598262 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it automatically kills processes that take too long, right? < 1277598264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thutubot's +haskell was implemented by asking lambdabot < 1277598266 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "#!/usr/bin/perl \n print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277598268 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it was just a joke < 1277598273 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYS TIME FOR NEW JSMIPS < 1277598274 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: who knows < 1277598279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ooh < 1277598292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Well, I could forkbomb it, but... < 1277598300 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: my genitalia wish to utilise jsmips for enterprising synergy < 1277598305 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... moving on < 1277598324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh hm the space. is that really significan in #! ? < 1277598330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+t < 1277598333 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm < 1277598337 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will actually run /usr/bin/perl '' file < 1277598341 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, of course, doesn't work. < 1277598345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277598347 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. (pronounced "Kwed"). < 1277598369 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Where, the new jsmips of sexy proportions? < 1277598378 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "#!/usr/bin/perl \n print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277598379 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598380 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it < 1277598382 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1277598397 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Right now just in hg, I'm updating system.html as we speak. < 1277598399 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you don't < 1277598400 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/twat < 1277598401 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598402 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still won't work < 1277598416 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if it did I'd remove it, as I now apparently have the monopoly on twats in this channel < 1277598423 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will proceed to crush smaller twat enterprises < 1277598430 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and illegally set prices < 1277598438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, near as I can tell, GCC 4.5.0 cannot cross-compile to uclibc. < 1277598451 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or CAN it < 1277598456 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Use pcc, hero. < 1277598475 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "perl -e twat.pl alise" >bin/runasperl < 1277598477 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598478 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runasperl < 1277598480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: But PCC can't build all of userspace that I want. < 1277598482 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598488 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uploading, uploading ... < 1277598515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries a GCC 4.3 cross-compiler; that actually worked.
< 1277598518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And yet, GCC 4.5.0 can cross-compile to MIPS running the totally-fake JSMIPS operating system with newlib :P < 1277598530 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So use other userspace. < 1277598535 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/jsmips/system.html OMG IT'S A NEW JSMIPS < 1277598536 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because MY FLINIX IS BETTER! < 1277598547 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Meet the new JSMIPS, apparently same as the old JSMIPS. < 1277598552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. How'd you build it? < 1277598559 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Seriously: Xserver (not X.Org) on . < 1277598561 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WITH EVIL MAGIC < 1277598567 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It would be amazing. pikhq will sing the virtues of Xserver to you. < 1277598569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../gcc-4.5.0/configure --prefix=/flinix --target=i386-linux-uclibc --disable-nls --with-gnu-ld --with-gnu-as --enable-languages=c --disable-shared --disable-threads --disable-tls --disable-multilib --disable-decimal-float --disable-libgomp --disable-libssp --disable-libmudflap --without-headers --with-newlib < 1277598572 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: There are a lot of steps before I can do that :P < 1277598574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: you are having a stray space before your \n in the #! lines < 1277598581 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nope. < 1277598584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something a bit like that, with a binutils available? < 1277598598 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Add some new instruction "canvas" that just takes some canvas instruction. < 1277598598 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan it's because it's not running as perl man < 1277598612 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Write an Xserver driver that just does asm("canvas ..."). < 1277598614 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Compile. < 1277598616 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Profit. < 1277598618 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be called "perl twat alise" < 1277598624 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277598627 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://codu.org/projects/jsmips/hg/index.cgi/file/b007e714e4b1/patches/buildcc.sh < 1277598628 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: you're an idiot < 1277598634 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oerjan is right < 1277598659 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "#!/usr/bin/perl\n print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277598662 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`twat alise < 1277598662 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598666 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, basically. < 1277598681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`chmod +x bin/twat < 1277598685 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ls < 1277598685 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading ./bin/ls... < 1277598685 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./bin/ls loaded. < 1277598685 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading ./dir.php... < 1277598685 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./dir.php loaded. < 1277598686 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin dir.php var < 1277598688 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgent Socket Condition < 1277598690 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1277598690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`twat < 1277598692 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1277598697 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598699 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgent Socket Condition would be an awesome band name. < 1277598707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1277598708 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1277598710 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I don't know why that error is happening just yet :P < 1277598714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/twat < 1277598718 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK guys, it's broken, stop :P < 1277598724 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277598724 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277598726 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277598726 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277598726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277598728 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598730 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/perl \ print [1] . 'is a twat!'; \ < 1277598737 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody keeps flooding it 'til it dies. < 1277598756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`twat alise < 1277598758 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x7f91c7f24d48)is a twat! < 1277598763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277598764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, if this goes well, I'll have a native toolchain. Which would be totally awesome. < 1277598779 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1277598783 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I should totally make a "native" JSMIPS toolchain. < 1277598809 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :port spidermonkey and run jsmips on mips on jsmips? < 1277598824 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: That would almost be too easy. < 1277598837 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it would < 1277598844 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Some definition of "too easy": P < 1277598847 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*easy" :P < 1277598867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: He's got GCC working; there's most of the work. < 1277598888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: your $ARGV got interpreted by the shell rather than perl, me thinks < 1277598898 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "#!/usr/bin/perl\n print \$ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277598900 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598908 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`twat alise < 1277598909 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a twat! < 1277598913 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277598922 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are all failures at life :| < 1277598925 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/twat < 1277598925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC CROSS COMPILER \o/ < 1277598926 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/perl \ print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!'; \ < 1277598926 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                   | < 1277598926 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                  /< < 1277598940 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also just use "shift" afaik < 1277598950 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Success? < 1277598950 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to shift twice < 1277598960 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argv[0] is the name of the program < 1277598961 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiot < 1277598978 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure shift starts at [1] < 1277598983 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, go away. < 1277598992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'print $ARGV[1]' < 1277598993 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277598996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Now to build a libc! And try to get a native toolchain! < 1277599000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'print $ARGV[1];' < 1277599001 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277599004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'print $ARGV[0];' < 1277599006 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277599008 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I already have a libc ... of course ... < 1277599022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ending the script tag is probably a smart thing to do < 1277599023 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, keep thinking you're smarter than me... *pats you on the head* ... < 1277599025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i suppose -e might not give an $ARGV < 1277599033 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A native toolchain would be sweeeet, but really I'd be happy with the heirloom Bourne shell compiling without patches :P < 1277599046 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "#!/usr/bin/perl\n print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277599047 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277599057 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`twat alise < 1277599057 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/twat < 1277599059 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277599066 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: i'm certainly less annoying and that's saying something < 1277599068 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277599094 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, I disagree, I think you're probably the most obnoxious person I've met in IRC... < 1277599108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: alise must think the last one was going to work :D < 1277599119 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "#!/usr/bin/perl\n print $ARGV[1] . 'is a twat!';\n" > bin/twat < 1277599121 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277599122 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`twat alise < 1277599124 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277599127 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1277599142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar: shell deleted $ARGV again < 1277599146 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277599148 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give < 1277599153 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lost its charm to me < 1277599164 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, alise is getting upset < 1277599165 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if you build the jsmips-on-mips port such that it automatically loads a new jsmips with the same jsmips-on-mips inside it... you might get something interesting :) if the jsmips-on-mips prints a boot message before starting javascript you should see a long list of boot messages being printed slower and slower :) < 1277599166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Native toolchain for flinix. :) < 1277599213 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Interpreter eigenratios. < 1277599231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp twat haskell main = interact $ (++ " is a twat!\n") < 1277599231 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter twat installed. < 1277599234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat alise < 1277599237 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1277599241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1277599275 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp twat haskell main = interact $ (concat . (++ " is a twat!") . unlines) < 1277599275 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is already an interpreter for twat! < 1277599280 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp twat < 1277599280 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter twat deleted. < 1277599283 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp twat haskell main = interact $ concat . (++ " is a twat!") . unlines < 1277599283 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter twat installed. < 1277599285 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I dont even mess with haskell, I know I do not know it too well, I just know enough to know it's not quite where I want it in terms of libs to be useful to me < 1277599288 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat Rafajafar < 1277599308 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp twat haskell main = interact $ concat . (++ [" is a twat!"]) . unlines < 1277599309 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is already an interpreter for twat! < 1277599313 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp twat < 1277599313 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter twat deleted. < 1277599314 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp twat haskell main = interact $ concat . (++ [" is a twat!"]) . unlines < 1277599315 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter twat installed. < 1277599316 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god alise, even you cant do it right! < 1277599317 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat Rafajafar < 1277599327 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey this isn't easy :D < 1277599335 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp twat haskell main = interact $ concat . (++ [" is a twat!"]) . lines < 1277599336 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is already an interpreter for twat! < 1277599336 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This land is fail land. < 1277599339 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp twat < 1277599339 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter twat deleted. < 1277599339 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This land is failure land. < 1277599340 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp twat haskell main = interact $ concat . (++ [" is a twat!"]) . lines < 1277599341 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter twat installed. < 1277599342 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail fail fail fail fail. < 1277599343 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so when you do it it's not easy, but when I do it I'm an idiot < 1277599345 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat Rafajafar < 1277599348 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar is a twat! < 1277599349 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but hilarious < 1277599350 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA < 1277599351 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DID IT < 1277599352 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurray~! < 1277599353 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEFORE ANY OF YOU < 1277599353 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WIN < 1277599354 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WIN < 1277599357 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE ALL TWATS < 1277599358 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FAIL THE LEAST < 1277599363 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you? < 1277599364 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat Every person in this channel < 1277599367 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every person in this channel is a twat! < 1277599374 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah I love that < 1277599384 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat !twat < 1277599386 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat is a twat! < 1277599388 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck < 1277599390 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1277599393 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat `echo Everyone < 1277599394 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dern, newlib doesn't have ucontext.h < 1277599396 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Everyone is a twat! < 1277599397 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone is a twat! < 1277599399 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did that worry me? < 1277599401 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1277599403 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was tarded < 1277599444 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat `echo !twat `echo OH NOSE < 1277599445 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat what is a < 1277599448 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo !twat `echo OH NOSE is a twat! < 1277599448 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a is a twat! < 1277599449 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat `echo OH NOSE is a twat! < 1277599460 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdkl;jads < 1277599466 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat what < 1277599469 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a twat! < 1277599472 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat what < 1277599475 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a twat! < 1277599484 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is twat? Baby don't hurt me < 1277599491 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat alise < 1277599492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING UCLIBC < 1277599492 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't hurt me < 1277599493 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more < 1277599494 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is a twat! < 1277599495 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is twat? < 1277599497 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baby don't hurt me < 1277599499 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't hurt me < 1277599500 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more < 1277599500 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat what < 1277599502 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat alise < 1277599502 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fekk, newlib doesn't have ucontext.h ... pile o garbage. < 1277599503 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a twat! < 1277599504 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat what < 1277599505 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat alise < 1277599506 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is a twat! < 1277599507 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a twat! < 1277599508 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is a twat! < 1277599521 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up the rest of the lyrics
< 1277599528 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, they suck even more :P < 1277599535 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not parodying them < 1277599662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone happen to know how to find out where GCC *thinks* the include path should be? < 1277599707 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go digging through gcc -dumpspecs? :P < 1277599729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mrm. < 1277599782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It apparently doesn't. < 1277599883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I want to write Agora an anthem. < 1277599908 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h233.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277599909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am pretty sure Agora already has one. in fact i'm pretty sure i came second in the contest to select one. < 1277599921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1277599929 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between me and your mom I came second. < 1277599930 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, and i was writing a proposal to select one too < 1277599937 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you should come back to agora :( < 1277599945 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks right now, needs moar oerjan < 1277599949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that was the name Agora itself. i'm _still_ pretty sure there was an anthem contest. < 1277599950 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1277599954 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1277600186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bootstrapping a toolchain is really, really annoying. < 1277600237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c:1:19: error: stdio.h: No such file or directory < 1277600239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1277600380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just write printf's prototype by hand < 1277600383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or puts', if you use that < 1277600509 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you had a B Nomic Era 5 relic named after you < 1277600540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relish your relics < 1277600682 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: riots in toronto. eh. < 1277600706 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1277600771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh G-20. i thought you meant something _un_expected. < 1277600962 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't even protestors < 1277600966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they give protestors a bad name < 1277601074 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :) < 1277601089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's team "hur dur what can we get away with while the police are distracted" < 1277601091 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because they're violent or because it's just a riot? I just read the headline, in true redditor fashion < 1277601098 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea of that as a team sport < 1277601101 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you keep track of points? < 1277601109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sure, there are protestors < 1277601111 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are protesting < 1277601134 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the rioters are just idiots who probably can't even name 5 members of the G20 < 1277601142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--with-sysroot. There we go. < 1277601164 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: europe, spain, america, canada, italy < 1277601166 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's five! < 1277601167 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and russia < 1277601170 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all of them < 1277601176 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you win a cookie < 1277601179 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1277601299 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1277601305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"S" in ["S"] < 1277601308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false < 1277601414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise in canada, guess what a volcano in the boundary ranges of british columbia is _officially_ called? < 1277601528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Volcano" < 1277601589 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: in isn't an array thing in js < 1277601591 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some property thing < 1277601592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ref. wikipedia's Did You Know) < 1277601602 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found that out, ty < 1277601622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in disarray < 1277601728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw you, typo! < 1277601732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getElemenyById < 1277601766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getAlimonyByEx < 1277602050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I block the form from being submitted < 1277602145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC you return false in its onsubmit method < 1277602168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't seem to be working < 1277602517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/flinix/usr/include/bits/time.h:74: error: redefinition of 'struct timeval' < 1277602520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you GCC. < 1277602542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell is GCC making its own definition of a libc struct, anyways? < 1277602572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms at self
< 1277602648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone wants to see my crappy code, it's at http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/coord_subtract.htm < 1277602750 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277602848 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaningless coords! < 1277602922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it *kill* GCC to show *where the previous definition was*? < 1277602936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, y'know, this would MAKE SOME SENSE AT ALL YOU FUCKING RETARDS < 1277603053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it normally does on the next line, IIRC < 1277603076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It doesn't. < 1277603080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In file included from /flinix/usr/include/sys/select.h:46, from /flinix/usr/include/sys/types.h:220, from ../../../gcc-4.3.4/libgcc/../gcc/tsystem.h:93, from ../../../gcc-4.3.4/libgcc/../gcc/libgcc2.c:33: < 1277603084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/flinix/usr/include/bits/time.h:74: error: redefinition of 'struct timeval' < 1277603087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks a lot, GCC. < 1277603095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ooodles* of help, that. < 1277603107 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autofellatio < 1277603127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bug < 1277603130 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries
< 1277603211 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or he's just using the completely undocumented interface wrong < 1277603237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the definition in bits/time.h conflicts with the definition in time.h < 1277603242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DO YOU HATE ME UCLIBC < 1277603246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHYWHYWHY < 1277603383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he was using _someone else's_ interface wrong < 1277603385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not my page < 1277603399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best directory name ever: nethac~2.3 < 1277603419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I vote we nuke GCC and uclibc from orbit. Agreed? < 1277603429 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But the uclibc people are nice... < 1277603441 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I propose we nuke UNIX from orbit. < 1277603450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, we can leave them around, but nuke GNU. < 1277603478 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Definitely. And no, nuke GCC. < 1277603490 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually nuke Linux. I propose we create Plan 42. < 1277603510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC deserves something stronger than nuking. < 1277603536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the nearest decent-sized black hole? < 1277603580 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're not going to like the answer to this... < 1277603584 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Richard Stallman's anus. < 1277603605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Dammit, GCC must've been from the Hawking radiation. < 1277603690 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Turns out that faeces is processed rather strangely if it comes out of a black hole. < 1277603695 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, GNU. < 1277603696 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE < 1277604076 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...anyway. < 1277604212 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1277606651 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277606844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277607185 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck < 1277607197 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib has files under 4-clause BSD. < 1277607210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck < 1277607234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't expect that to happen. < 1277607238 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ... what C library SHOULD I be using. < 1277607244 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib was so easy to port ... but wtf. < 1277607248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write one! < 1277607257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a notable lack of good ones. < 1277607261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to :P < 1277607271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1277607281 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc isn't portable any more ... uClibc wasn't portable in the first place ... newlib is 4-clause ... < 1277607283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There don't *exist* any other portable C libraries. < 1277607302 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277607316 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they at least all the same 4-clause with University of California? *checks* < 1277607322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Wait: you have a way out. < 1277607332 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: eclibc? < 1277607334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's a system library, the GPL has an exception for it. < 1277607340 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eglibc < 1277607346 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but seriously, write your own < 1277607350 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc is quite simple tbh < 1277607352 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do it naively < 1277607354 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it'll be fun :P < 1277607361 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: There's just a lot of shit to do. < 1277607364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This same exception lets you link against Visual C's libc. < 1277607367 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than I want to do. < 1277607374 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's a Project. < 1277607384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: You should. :P < 1277607386 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's just annoying is all, not a halter. < 1277607392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With your copious 2 days a week. < 1277607406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyways. I believe newlib is the only workable choice. < 1277607419 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 2.1! < 1277607420 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the easiest choice would be to replace the 4-clause parts of newlib! < 1277607424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because glibc is agony itself to port, and uClibc cannot be ported. < 1277607439 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If oklopol gave me lodging I could have 7 days a week and also crippling insanity :P < 1277607470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit short on lodging to offer *and* being in the EU. :P < 1277607472 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION invented the linked list.
< 1277607473 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a libc name to create this directory >__> < 1277607506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Now invent the list of trees of hash maps of lists of arrays of 32-bit address spaces. < 1277607522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1890153 <-- 4-clause files that are part of the JSMIPS build. < 1277607546 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You don't need manpages. < 1277607550 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ha. a tree of hash maps? I don't think there's a big-o for that kind of memory use. :P < 1277607553 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Headers you can copy from elsewhere, probably. < 1277607559 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.c -- sucks to be you < 1277607561 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what pikhq said < 1277607564 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpl has exception for system libraries. < 1277607572 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, it's not a blocker, it's just annoying. < 1277607591 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there are no man pages in that list :P < 1277607665 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1277607665 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./newlib/libc/posix/glob.3 < 1277607665 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1277607665 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./newlib/libc/posix/regex.3 < 1277607667 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1277607667 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./newlib/libc/posix/fnmatch.3 < 1277607675 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1277607675 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./newlib/libc/stdlib/getsubopt.3 < 1277607676 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree. < 1277607813 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are names so hard < 1277607815 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c library < 1277607817 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard c library < 1277607821 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that gotta done have a good name < 1277607823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4-clause files __that are part of the JSMIPS build__." < 1277607827 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man pages are not part of the build < 1277607942 0 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1277607960 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-1-146.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277608009 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well they were in that paste. < 1277608066 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh crap they were! :P < 1277608071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed removing some I guess X-P < 1277608079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: The Umi library. < 1277608088 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why Umi? < 1277608101 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C in Japanese or something like that? :P < 1277608105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Umi" (æµ·) is Japanese for "ocean" or "sea". < 1277608111 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Har, fair enough < 1277608115 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umi it is. < 1277608124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, that's one of the few words of Japanese I actually know < 1277608126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um am i < 1277608136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bilingualism makes coming up with names a *little* bit easier. < 1277608137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, only the romanisation, not the actual Japanese character < 1277608138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277608152 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I did know that a bit; I should have thought of it. < 1277608195 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, where to start < 1277608197 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1277608199 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stddef.h, then string.h. < 1277608209 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I do wonder why I never seem to use revision control until a project is mature. < 1277608246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait you ever get that far? < 1277608253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks
< 1277608287 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1277608292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Kinda hard to finish projects with 2/7ths of the week. < 1277608296 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, no. :) < 1277608300 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I didn't do it beforehand either. < 1277608305 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have software ADHD. < 1277608313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Yeah, but that's just you being you. < 1277608318 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I code like the wind until I hit something even vaguely challenging or tedious, then close the window and forget about it. :P < 1277608323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to see my prejudices aren't _always_ wrong < 1277608328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait... < 1277608342 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION modifies the definition of offsetof from Wikipedia. Dammit, it's uncopyrightable.
< 1277608439 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((size_t) ( (char *)&((st *)(0))->m - (char *)0 )) < 1277608440 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ this is stupid < 1277608457 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((size_t) (&(st *)0)->m)) < 1277608475 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe that doesn't handle (T*)0 != (T*)((int)0) < 1277608481 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freebsd uses it, I think, so nyah < 1277608526 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any reason to define size_t as anything other than "unsigned long"? < 1277608529 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, on any platform? < 1277608530 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277608556 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1277608587 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wchar_t's signedness appears to not be specified. < 1277608588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: None. < 1277608598 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thusly < 1277608600 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef int wchar_t; < 1277608600 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277608607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as char. < 1277608625 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type ptrdiff_t is a type that can hold the result of subtracting two pointers. The underlying type of ptrdiff_t varies from implementation to implementation. < 1277608638 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it portable to have this as just "long"? Not strictly, but... < 1277608644 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, is there any crazy platform where it might not be long? < 1277608655 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On 16-bit ones with 32-bit longs, it's okay, just a bit excessive < 1277608657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows. < 1277608670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows x86_64, specifically. < 1277608702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which has 32-bit longs... < 1277608707 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Rage. < 1277608710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Because fuck you. < 1277608712 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'll make it a platform configuration thing, then. < 1277608736 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Which actually just makes me wonder how to do that. Have the build system copy stuff to the source tree under platform/? Ew. < 1277608794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION expects the closing window and forgetting about to happen any time now
< 1277608800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about it < 1277608823 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm just waiting for pikhq to hand me the answer on a silver platter :D < 1277608830 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (toEnum 'A', toEnum 'Z') < 1277608843 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (fromEnum 'A', fromEnum 'Z') < 1277608844 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh < 1277608844 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(65,90) < 1277608928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIKHQ QQQQQQQQQQQ < 1277608944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: sed sed sed sed LOVELY SED! WONDERFUL SED! < 1277608952 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You ... you are joking. < 1277608959 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They ... sed the source tree? But they'd have to copy it... and build that ... < 1277608962 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is terrible. < 1277608988 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lex5sz.jpg < 1277608991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo sed sed sed sed | sed 's/sed/sed sed sed sed/' < 1277608992 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed sed sed sed sed sed sed < 1277608993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed s/sed/spam/ < 1277608997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1277609000 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I'd say using sed is as many as four tens. < 1277609000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo sed sed sed sed | sed 's/sed/sed sed sed sed/g' < 1277609001 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed < 1277609012 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No but seriously... is that how they do it? < 1277609020 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just have a libc/platform directory, at least?! < 1277609044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Or have a libc/platform directory with copies of files. < 1277609052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or have a header generator script. < 1277609054 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Copies? But why?! < 1277609059 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I was just going to have the header files do < 1277609064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because fuck you. < 1277609066 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include <__umi_platform/stddef.h> < 1277609067 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1277609077 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for those bits < 1277609099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1277609135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo sed sed sed sed | sed 's/sed/sed sed/g' | sed 's/sed/sed sed sed sed sed/g' < 1277609136 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed sed < 1277609176 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ... Maybe I could run cpp on the headers so that they can include the platform files and yet still generate proper header f... insanity looming. < 1277609185 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using cpp to generate header files. :P < 1277609192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's as many as four tens! And that's terrible. < 1277609209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: You're using CPP to generate CPP files. < 1277609213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA* < 1277609282 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all know that what Lex Luthor really wants in life is cakes. Forty of them. < 1277609305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo sed sed sed sed | sed 's/sed/sed sed/g' | sed 's/sed/sed sed sed sed sed/g' | sed 's/sed/cake/g' < 1277609305 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake < 1277609324 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; liftM putStrLn $ replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z']} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277609352 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1277609356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks there's an unmatched {
< 1277609359 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1277609364 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no. < 1277609369 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only one of each. < 1277609377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277609432 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let pick a = System.Random.randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) in pick [1..10] < 1277609434 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1277609449 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1277609454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you want liftM putStrLn < 1277609457 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know what? Fuck Windows. < 1277609461 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything /else/ that does that? < 1277609467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1277609471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just fucking Windows. < 1277609474 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pick is returning IO [Char] right? < 1277609509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. but you don't use liftM to apply a monadic function < 1277609552 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. fmap? < 1277609560 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to avoid writing another do-bind. :P < 1277609587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/liftM putStrLn $ replicateM len/mapM_ putStrLn . replicate len/ < 1277609589 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, you know what? < 1277609594 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck the fucking shit out of Windows. < 1277609601 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not playing that damn game. < 1277609606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1277609621 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are we talking about Windows? < 1277609622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Windows can go to hell. < 1277609639 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; mapM_ putStrLn $ replicate len $ pick ['A'..'Z']} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277609660 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure I don't want replicateM? < 1277609663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i thought wrong < 1277609703 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; mapM_ putStrLn $ replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z']} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277609728 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try this instead... < 1277609730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; print =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z']}) where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277609735 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to write string.h. < 1277609737 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then string.c. < 1277609737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1277609748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :String functions: glee. < 1277609748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; print =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277609753 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Theory: If I don't do something retarded like glibc does, and just code obviously, it will be fast. < 1277609758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1277609767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; print =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277609770 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DAAWYGGZAA" < 1277609779 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts reading POSIX, not Wikipedia.
< 1277609797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Answer: maybe not as fast as glibc in some cases (some of its complication is for *actual* performance benefits), but undoubtedly fast enough. < 1277609806 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z']} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277609811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's just one string < 1277609811 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The implementation shall support one or more programming environments in which the widths of ptrdiff_t, size_t, and wchar_t are no greater than the width of type long. The names of these programming environments can be obtained using the confstr() function or the getconf utility.]] < 1277609813 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1277609816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, this is how the BSDs do their libc. < 1277609817 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Shut up, POSIX. < 1277609827 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just blabbing about nothing now. < 1277609830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: see mine < 1277609844 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RATIONALE < 1277609844 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : None. < 1277609850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need an import, and =<< has higher precedence than $ < 1277609851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, you may wish to just copy-paste swaths from BSD libc. < 1277609857 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thought it was the same. < 1277609874 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does... anyone use strxfrm? < 1277609890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. hm maybe it should have been... < 1277609893 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm an MIT-licensing perfectionist NIHer. :-) < 1277609898 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the C locale, strxfrm() is equivalent to: < 1277609898 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : strncpy(s1, s2, n); < 1277609898 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return strlen(s1); < 1277609904 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this horrible feeling I really /should/ support locales. < 1277609916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: It *is* nice to support locales. < 1277609921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (0$0=<<) < 1277609923 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also a bitch. < 1277609924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it's also a pain in the ass. < 1277609933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1277609935 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, good enough for Jesus, good enough for me. < 1277609938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest not doing that initially. < 1277609946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = (0$0=<<) < 1277609951 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277609954 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XWVHNMVPEP < 1277609958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine it's easier to add to a functioning C library. < 1277609962 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *memccpy(void *restrict, const void *restrict, int, size_t); < 1277609963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=<< is infixr 1 < 1277609968 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restrict? I even had to look up what that is. < 1277609970 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, POSIX. < 1277609970 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... maybe I should weight it for smaller acronyms. < 1277609996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: A restrict pointer should not alias. < 1277610001 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know. < 1277610002 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weighting for more common English starting letters would also make better acronyms. < 1277610003 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who uses memccpy? < 1277610020 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would that run as a userinterp as it stands? < 1277610036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who... Wants to copy all up until a terminating byte? < 1277610051 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SHUT UP. :| < 1277610052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can *imagine* someone using it, but I've never seen it used. < 1277610069 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mozilla/intl/locale/src/unix/nsCollationUnix.cpp < 1277610069 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DoSetLocale(); < 1277610069 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ call strxfrm to calculate a key length < 1277610069 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int len = strxfrm(NULL, str, 0) + 1; < 1277610069 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DoRestoreLocale(); < 1277610070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :archive.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/mozilla0.9.2/src/mozilla-source-0.9.2.tar.bz2 < 1277610073 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla 0.9.2 uses it! < 1277610085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Hell, just write it. It's a single line of C and at least not *evil* to have. < 1277610105 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but I feel nasty typing restrict :P < 1277610112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suggest making the more unsafe string functions exit(0). :P < 1277610115 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Will stuff break if I omit the copious const declarations? < 1277610121 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets = exit(0) < 1277610146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. exit(255) < 1277610152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: No, but the const declarations let the compiler produce better code. < 1277610162 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know, but in the headers? < 1277610187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Prevents people from writing incorrect code. < 1277610196 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, fine. < 1277610199 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, memccpy is actually optional. < 1277610199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i would imagine so, no input though < 1277610201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't make a difference for *valid* code. < 1277610203 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XSI. < 1277610224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that wasn't around for C89. < 1277610229 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the _r functions are thread-safe ones. < 1277610234 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who uses threads, right? < 1277610239 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure as fuck not implementing pthreads right now. < 1277610245 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not retarded. < 1277610263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alias to the non-reentrant ones unless you really feel like implementing pthreads. < 1277610280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*really* implementing, not borrowing a userspace implementation) < 1277610286 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They have different types. < 1277610313 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is it legal to copy the function declarations from POSIX? < 1277610319 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem almost copyrightable. < 1277610394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: The function declarations? All libcs do. < 1277610404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: also pick itself is a good place for using liftM < 1277610408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except when they add their own extensions for varous reasons. < 1277610434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If every other person with a hosted C implementation does, I think you're safe. :P < 1277610439 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes memcpy first.
< 1277610440 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp simpleacro haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277610441 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter simpleacro installed. < 1277610446 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277610449 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HSAVV < 1277610452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = liftM (a!!) $ randomRIO (0, length a - 1) < 1277610454 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XNSLLTGQ < 1277610488 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that strcpy(dst, src) = memcpy(dst, src, 0, ... oh, you can't actually specify length here easily)
< 1277610539 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, memcpy+strlen with a good memcpy and a good strlen is better than most attempts at writing a special strcpy function < 1277610565 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need shittily written libc functions < 1277610572 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a MUD codebase that does such things. < 1277610576 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *memcpy(void *restrict dst, const void *restrict src, size_t n) < 1277610576 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1277610576 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : void *s = src; < 1277610576 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (s < src+n) < 1277610576 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *dst++ = *s++; < 1277610576 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1277610578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ... Two passes are better than one? < 1277610578 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tadaaaaaa~ < 1277610583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell is wrong with you? < 1277610602 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i think he means the crazy long-reading strlen trick and crazy optimised memcpy < 1277610603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not shittily written. *Readably* written. :) < 1277610607 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs trying to write strcpy yourself < 1277610638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I'm pretty sure you could beat the combo by making a strcpy that does long-reading and that crazy optimisation. :) < 1277610646 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *strcpy(char *restrict dst, const char *restrict src) < 1277610646 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1277610646 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (*src) < 1277610646 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *dst++ = *src++; < 1277610646 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1277610647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, not by much. < 1277610648 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc sure is easy! < 1277610670 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now MonadLibC < 1277610685 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright... this is the official acronym for this project: < 1277610687 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277610690 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KYWCE < 1277610700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which project? < 1277610705 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kills Your Whole C Experience < 1277610711 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kiwis Yell Willingly: "Cats Ejaculate!" < 1277610717 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1277610724 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr New Zealanders commit beastiality on a regular basis < 1277610756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least they won't get rabies < 1277610775 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I called it "simpleacro" so that a much better "acro" command can be made... with, you know, letter and length weighting and stuff. < 1277610779 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277610781 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NRLCATJ < 1277610795 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You don't want me to implement strcat, do you. :P < 1277610829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: strcat *can* be used safely. < 1277610848 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *strcat(char *restrict dst, const char *restrict src) < 1277610848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no real life, codes acronym toys joyfully < 1277610848 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1277610848 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (*dst) < 1277610848 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dst++; < 1277610848 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : strcpy(dst, src); < 1277610849 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1277610851 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this so damn easy. < 1277610861 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ha. < 1277610863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets returns NULL. < 1277610864 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I should probably mark such simple loops inline, shouldn't I? < 1277610875 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inlining < 1277610878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Wouldn't matter. < 1277610879 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (*dst) < 1277610879 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dst++; < 1277610879 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (*src) < 1277610879 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *dst++ = *src++; < 1277610881 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be obviously good < 1277610882 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why not? < 1277610885 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clever compilers? < 1277610890 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, this is C; we should rely on no compiler! < 1277610899 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277610902 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KXDEXW < 1277610906 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. X < 1277610907 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think memcpy and memset should be inlined, as they take up a variable slot. < 1277610908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to stick it in the header as static inline *in addition* to being in the object file if it's going to make a difference. < 1277610910 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And registers are scarce on x86. < 1277610920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, let the compiler be smart. < 1277610920 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And? :P < 1277610923 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fine. < 1277610931 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X should have like 0,000..1 probability < 1277610935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Add inlines later. < 1277610944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now, make a basic, good libc. < 1277610969 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes a policy: destination strings/memory locations are "dst", sources are "src", strings just operated on (e.g. strlen) are "s".
< 1277610977 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we programmers expect far too much from our compilers < 1277610981 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of crazy AI < 1277610989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *gets(char *s){return NULL;} < 1277610994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, I wrote a function for you. < 1277611013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets returns NULL on error. < 1277611014 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I... think that gets should be supported. < 1277611019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And obviously all uses are errors. < 1277611020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: No. < 1277611027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets is a 100% guaranteed buffer overflow. < 1277611034 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not always. < 1277611040 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider IRC, with its maximum line limit. < 1277611069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Only for complying clients/servers. < 1277611078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And non-compliant one would rape you. < 1277611078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :koala x-rays destroy every xenophobic wallaby < 1277611087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets is a buffer overflow. Full stop. < 1277611112 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is hard to resist isn't it? < 1277611114 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277611117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bloodbath in australia) < 1277611117 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GITHGLRS < 1277611159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, it's that horrible gregor's language reimplementation system < 1277611185 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277611187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strcpy can stay: it's possible to use safely. < 1277611197 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *strcpy(char *restrict dst, const char *restrict src) < 1277611198 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1277611198 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char *ret = dst; < 1277611198 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (*dst++ = *src++); < 1277611198 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return ret; < 1277611199 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1277611200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But gets must be PURGED FROM THE FACE OF THE PLANET. < 1277611201 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really be less naive. < 1277611233 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How about: if you use gets, and compile your program normally, you get a flaming red yelling poker-in-the-ass error. If you define -DI_DEMAND_GETS, it works, but warns you. < 1277611237 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*How about this: < 1277611248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Okay. I can deal with that. < 1277611264 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *breakstr(char * s) { for(int i=0; s[0] != '\0'; s++){} s[i] = '\n'; return s;} < 1277611270 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I are well at hacking and grammar < 1277611326 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (*s++ != c) < 1277611326 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (!*s) return NULL; < 1277611326 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return s; < 1277611327 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la la la < 1277611333 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess the function :-P < 1277611380 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... strcmp arguments are s and t or s1 and s2, I wonder. < 1277611382 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s1 and s2. < 1277611399 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277611402 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RK < 1277611408 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1277611413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How very strchr. < 1277611416 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do any English words start with k? < 1277611438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random key < 1277611443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Plenty. < 1277611486 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int strcmp(const char *s1, const char *s2) < 1277611486 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1277611486 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (*s1++ != *s2++) < 1277611486 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (!*s1 || !*s2) break; < 1277611486 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return (int)((unsigned char)*s1 - (unsigned char)*s2); < 1277611486 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1277611488 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit gnarly, but there you go. < 1277611512 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277611515 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WXSA < 1277611521 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a radio station < 1277611540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/K < 1277611547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: um shouldn't it continue while they're _equal_? < 1277611553 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, yes. < 1277611562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, that includes foreign languages. < 1277611575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All free for loaning though. < 1277611597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why xenon suffocates albanians < 1277611616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Kick. < 1277611672 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277611675 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIQDK < 1277611716 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq Ingests Quality Delicious Kraut < 1277611723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is quite ... damn < 1277611745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION *does* enjoy some kraut, particularly when sauer.
< 1277611747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I was ingesting quality delicious kraut :( < 1277611757 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277611760 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JN < 1277611765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just nothing < 1277611766 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java Node. < 1277611770 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *memccpy(void *restrict dst, const void *restrict src, int c, size_t n) < 1277611770 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1277611770 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : void *srcp = src; < 1277611770 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (srcp < src+n) { < 1277611770 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *dst++ = *src++; < 1277611770 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan wins. < 1277611771 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((unsigned char)*dst == (unsigned char)c) return dst; < 1277611773 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1277611775 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return NULL; < 1277611777 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277611777 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1277611779 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doodedoo. < 1277611779 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOYGIE < 1277611782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japan Nouveaou. < 1277611793 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good Orange Yemen Go In Edifices < 1277611809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nonsensical! < 1277611817 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hmmm < 1277611818 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1277611820 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give Others Yours, Get Internet Everywhere < 1277611821 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine such a thing. < 1277611831 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha. < 1277611840 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION resolves not to use the "T a, b" style declarations.
< 1277611845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goku Owns Your Gohan In Eternity < 1277611853 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This naively constructed acronym generator will provide hours of fun. < 1277611864 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277611867 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QTQAZZ < 1277611873 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :difficult. < 1277611892 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe fungot knows. < 1277611893 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: note that length list-tail each iterate over the array, not an atheist. you cannot _read_ a procedure... map is... looking that up < 1277611904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quit this quiz, avoid zany zombies < 1277611904 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha. not an atheist. < 1277611912 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nicely done. < 1277611915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quack The Quack All Ze Zimmerman < 1277611916 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1020504.txt?key=51oe62xhyjjvfyp2p73rzq < 1277611918 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: this function does not iterate over an atheist. < 1277611924 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could it get any more ridiculously simple?! < 1277611942 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`style < 1277611944 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277611949 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1277611954 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is it? < 1277611963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: That's a beautiful string.c. < 1277612021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I look forward to your stdio.h < 1277612026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1277612026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdio.c < 1277612034 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A scary prospect. < 1277612042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to guess it involves "screw buffering". < 1277612046 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully the syscalls will go in a Top Sekrit Platform Specific Thing. < 1277612050 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well ... perhaps not. < 1277612055 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally this thing would be usable on a desktop system. < 1277612061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1277612074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, the syscalls should be all inside of a syscall.c or something... < 1277612076 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... *dstp and dstp++, where dstp is a void-pointer? < 1277612082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making this actually reasonable to port. :P < 1277612103 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277612106 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNIPH < 1277612117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get no infernal pixies here < 1277612130 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/get/got < 1277612134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: BTW, be aware that sticking your functions in a single file while using static linking will make all the functions be pulled in. < 1277612136 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oops. < 1277612149 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, where's that? < 1277612173 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, I might use a script to put them all in separate files, if I'm processing source anyway. < 1277612178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1277612208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :processed sauce < 1277612218 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laa, almost day time. < 1277612226 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, having string/funcname.c would suck. < 1277612318 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277612321 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LQF < 1277612328 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low Quality Fornication. < 1277612329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liquid quantum field < 1277612340 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an actual sciencey term? < 1277612348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no f idea < 1277612356 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277612359 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPXBEYB < 1277612359 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dawn ... < 1277612376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Wait, you're dereferencing a void*? < 1277612398 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in a way... < 1277612399 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (srcp < src+n) < 1277612399 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *dstp++ = *srcp++; < 1277612403 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not fully awake. < 1277612419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/void*/char*/ < 1277612423 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing less intuitive than my calculator is YASBB < 1277612424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should work. < 1277612436 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *memset(void *dst, int c, size_t n) < 1277612436 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1277612436 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : void *dstp = dst; < 1277612436 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (dstp < dst+n) < 1277612436 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *(int *)dstp++ = c; < 1277612437 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return dst; < 1277612439 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1277612441 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that is correct. < 1277612443 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, just make dstp an int *. < 1277612459 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehm, no, that's not right either :) < 1277612464 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it isn't. < 1277612471 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really embed myself. < 1277612475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is *valid C*. But not at all correct. < 1277612484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most precious xanadu, be everything you've been < 1277612589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet another stupid beer bottle < 1277612597 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to engage brain
< 1277612599 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION yawns
< 1277612637 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *memset(void *dst, int c, size_t n) < 1277612637 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1277612637 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char *dstp = dst; < 1277612637 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (dstp < dst+n) < 1277612637 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *dstp++ = c; < 1277612638 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return dst; < 1277612640 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1277612641 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277612642 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I am the Lizard Queen! < 1277612761 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Now I am the LIZARD QUEEN. < 1277612987 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1020513.txt?key=zbla0g3v0dib00inavatqq < 1277612989 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :string.c version 2 < 1277613111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's correct! < 1277613153 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaaaaaaaaaaaerktoijsdffffdddddddddddd zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz < 1277613164 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: should I do the fun long thing now < 1277613184 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long reading < 1277613198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we suggest a fun long sleep < 1277613210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1277613247 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why i need melatonin, maybe i'll order tomorrow < 1277613250 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does assert.h
< 1277613283 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If NDEBUG is defined as a macro name before the inclusion of this header, the assert() macro shall be defined simply as: < 1277613283 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define assert(ignore)((void) 0) < 1277613286 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be defined precisely like that < 1277613289 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the lack of space :P < 1277613321 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION will be attending a party in SL on Monday :D
< 1277613326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to tell what the actual definition is. < 1277613346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure out a way to get it quoted, and voila. < 1277613351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also viola. < 1277613383 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a reliable way to be certain thar arbitrary code is quoted? < 1277613395 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1277613412 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that it depends on the language
< 1277613538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quoted" in terms of C means getting it to go through the quoting operator of the preprocessor, which sticks it inside of quote marks. < 1277613567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting you a string literal. < 1277613577 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define assert(c) \ < 1277613577 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((c) || (fprintf("Assertion (%s) failed in %s, at %s:%d.\n", #c, \ < 1277613577 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : __func__, __FILE__, __LINE__), abort()), \ < 1277613577 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (void)0) < 1277613596 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stderr, < 1277613725 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DESCRIPTION < 1277613725 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The header shall define the following types: < 1277613725 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : size_t < 1277613725 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : As described in . < 1277613725 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ssize_t < 1277613725 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : As described in . < 1277613727 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The following shall be declared as a function and may also be defined as a macro. A function prototype shall be provided. < 1277613730 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ssize_t strfmon(char *restrict, size_t, const char *restrict, ...); < 1277613732 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut. < 1277613767 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why is monetary.h defining somethin that's defined elsewhere? < 1277613791 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it provides a function prototype using those types < 1277613812 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must define them, and must define them exactly the same way as everything else (obviously) < 1277613915 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't just include and because that would be essentially including those whether clients want it or not? < 1277613943 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you usually have internal headers in the libc that can define exactly what you need from the other headers < 1277613975 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. #define NEED_SIZE_T and #include "bits/stddef.h" or something like that < 1277613998 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an #undefine? < 1277614002 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1277614006 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, that makes sense then < 1277614007 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#undef < 1277614040 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wait, why does monetary.h define those types again? < 1277614092 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it needs to use them, and there's no other way to use them than to define them first < 1277614123 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about including those partial header things with NEED_SIZE_T? < 1277614144 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an example of what monetary.h could be doing internally < 1277614148 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:49 sigh < 1277614155 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to get those typedefs defined < 1277614184 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: 5:49 here :) < 1277614193 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not slept? < 1277614202 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet, but sleep is imminent < 1277614250 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this guy is incapable of reading documentation < 1277614273 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't everyone? < 1277614309 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.andras.net/yasbb.html#mozTocId911022 reading this, are you able to determine how to rotate the to-be-built stuff around a coordinate? < 1277614372 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat alise < 1277614374 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is a twat! < 1277614495 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!twat Rafajafar < 1277614497 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rafajafar is a twat! < 1277614556 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp twat < 1277614557 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter twat deleted. < 1277614688 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo EgoBot is a twat < 1277614689 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is a twat < 1277614724 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, time to go hallucinate for a while < 1277614730 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you don't remember the hallucinations < 1277614822 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1277614850 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277614870 0 :Rafajafar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158] < 1277614927 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1277616346 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to compile GNU coreutils with JSMIPS >: ) < 1277616360 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lib part compiles now, which is a plus (had to stub out some socket stuff though) < 1277616571 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you rotate a graph around 500, 500 by 0 degrees, how much do things move? < 1277616588 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1277616603 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: it is uncharacteristic of you to ask such a dumb question < 1277616626 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to tell YASBB that it shouldn't be moving things at all? < 1277616644 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rotate old prop around: 0, 0, angle 0 doesn't move a thing < 1277616654 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put numbers in, and leave angle at 0, and it moves things < 1277616858 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put in 12345 for the north coordinate to rotate around, leave angle at 0, and it translates things 12345 southward < 1277616859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to rotate around (x,y) you can do it in three steps: (1) subtract (x,y) from the coordinates (2) rotate around (0,0) instead (3) add (x,y) back < 1277616897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that doesn't give you the same result, something's probably wrong < 1277616932 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's safe to say something's already wrong here < 1277616942 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that multistep process is somewhat inconvenient < 1277616947 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even to test, tbh < 1277616960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's purely functional :D < 1277616997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there's another way < 1277617007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait no < 1277617016 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about helping me figure out WTF is wrong with this software? < 1277617026 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.andras.net/yasbb.html#mozTocId911022 is there something I'm not seeing? < 1277617224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1277617345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you are filling in the numbers at the left, which are not about rotation at all i think < 1277617393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and might very well translate things < 1277617669 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those numbers are 0 < 1277617695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1277617851 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may very well end up writing my own rotation stuff < 1277617983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(z-c)*e^(ia) + c = z*e^(ia) + c(1 - e^(ia)) < 1277618034 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I'll be able to figure out the math on my own < 1277618051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning basically, if you first calculate where (0,0) _should_ go, then you can afterward rotate around (0,0) and just add that < 1277618082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning you only need 2 steps < 1277618144 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Some logs from FreeBSD suggest that the advertising clause can be removed, it's all been relicensed. < 1277618202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, those are copied from FreeBSD? < 1277618215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the BSDs made a point of getting them relicensed. < 1277618226 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they're copied from ancient FreeBSD. < 1277618231 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently pre-2004 :P < 1277618232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. "Regents of the University of California". < 1277618241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's been relicensed by the Regents. < 1277618255 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should petition RedHat to fix the license in newlib. < 1277618260 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz that was a depressing moment X-D < 1277618265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277618492 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, newlib is still awesome :P < 1277619182 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, newlib IS pretty awesome. It's wildly incomplete, but it's a sufficient platform to build a real libc on, while taking care of all the stupid boilerplate for you. < 1277619370 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose maybe tomorrow #esoteric can figure out the semantics of YASBB rotation < 1277620061 0 :Gregor-L_!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277620078 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've built newlib like fifty times in the last hour :P < 1277620188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1277620218 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277620350 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277620621 0 :Gregor-L_!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277621538 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1277621601 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coreutils compiles! < 1277621607 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which of course means that it works. < 1277621619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1277621679 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the docs, which don't build and are annoying >_< < 1277622668 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, GNU ls works < 1277622673 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1277622680 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's BASICALLY everything. < 1277622691 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1277623206 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next: binutils >: ) < 1277623221 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I've got GCC running on a browser, you'll all bow down to my amazitude. < 1277623361 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld:built in linker script:2: syntax error // what a very confusing error message < 1277623393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277623404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld uses .gld scripts behind the scenes, but the defaults work for almost everything < 1277623414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how one of the builtins ended up with a syntax error, though < 1277623455 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's the confusing part :P < 1277623458 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the use of scripts. < 1277623476 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the fact that it built one in that doesn't work. Either that or JSMIPS has a bug so subtle that it only affects this program. < 1277623483 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this way. < 1277624801 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I fixed the thing that made it spit out "Urgent Socket Condition" all the time < 1277624882 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277625463 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277625546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1277625599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1277625600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1277626040 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.4/20100611143157] < 1277626785 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277627018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277627645 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-21-184.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1277628756 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B14D45D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277629472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277629964 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277630262 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277630284 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are 6502s used anywhere an more? < 1277630288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/an/any/ < 1277630534 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not sure but you can still buy them AFAIK < 1277630575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is writing 6502 assembly held in such high regard? < 1277630670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/writing// < 1277630757 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it would be in the demoscene, i'm not sure about elsewhere though < 1277631370 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277632165 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1277634039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1277634416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morning. < 1277635584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to vaguely remember something modern using a 6502-derived design, but I have no recollection what it might be. < 1277635711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh why does this compile. The function it calls doesn't seem to be defined anywhere. < 1277635721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia just says "it is still made for embedded systems", but doesn't provide examples. < 1277635724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is it a macro < 1277635750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and last I checked C was case sensitive... < 1277635783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beep(oto2freq[oto], len*200); appears in a C source file, it is not disabled with #if or such as far as I can tell < 1277635795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, nowhere does the function or macro Beep appear < 1277635800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anything else called Beep < 1277635826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is beep(void) but that is 1) wrong case 2) wrong parameter count < 1277635887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There probably are case-insensitive linkers somewhere in the world, but that sounds unlikely. < 1277635929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it isn't in the headers, I checked them, since this is kernel code it doesn't use any libc hidden away anywhere < 1277635945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... found it < 1277635949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in linker script < 1277635955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapping to a ROM function < 1277635966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277636019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should probably be getting an implicit-declaration warning out of it if it isn't actually declared in any header; the linker script can only define the symbol, after all. < 1277636049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, strange that gcc doesn't include that in -Wall -Wextra then < 1277636059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least gcc 3.4.6 didn't < 1277636069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no newer gcc support this target) < 1277636073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting back to the 6502 thread, I seem to recall that TI made a beefed-up Z80 model quasi-recently. < 1277636129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, Zilog, I mean. < 1277636182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The eZ80 (like the Z380) is binary compatible with the Z80 and Z180, but almost four times as fast as the original Z80 chip at the same clock frequency. Available at up to 50 MHz[1] (2004), the performance is comparable to a Z80 clocked at 200 MHz if fast memory is used --" < 1277636212 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also extends some registers to 24 bits so that it can directly access up to 16 MB. < 1277636224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not binary compatible if the binary depends on timing < 1277636297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm wait, 16 bit addresses would allow 64 KiB right? < 1277636300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good enough for most purposes, anyhow. < 1277636307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277636313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how did the original x86 allow you to have 640 KiB? < 1277636327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it doesn't make sense for any power of two? < 1277636339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not any common one I can think of < 1277636361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It allows up to 1 MB, the higher parts are just used by ROM and such. < 1277636399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277636429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has 20-bit addresses, with the segmentation nonsense. < 1277636459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it can't access all of the 2-bit space IIRC. < 1277636461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so 12 bits for segment stuff? < 1277636479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, 4 bits in the segment. < 1277636486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 24 bit registers? < 1277636489 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1277636496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16-bit regs. < 1277636506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need two for a full address. < 1277636510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :address = segment << 4 + offset < 1277636518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I forgot something important here: and that is that x86 is a mess < 1277636550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X:Y maps to X<<4 + Y. I'm too slow with this N900 kbd. < 1277636575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277636586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember reading that it was because they could only afford 20 address pins on the 8086. < 1277636594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't exactly gotten out of bed yet. < 1277636623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There also that whole A20 line enablation mess. < 1277636659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you still need to use the keyboard controller to do that, by the way? < 1277636696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to pretend to be using it, but I think motherboards have dedicated circuitry for it. < 1277636710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The procedure to enable it is still the same, I believe. < 1277636737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backwards compatibility is a blight... < 1277636801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I would want a completely new 64 bit architecture. With more registers than AMD64. And less of the compat cruft < 1277636810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For "compatibility" with apps that expect memory access past 1MB wrap around to the beginning, the 21st address line is hardwired to be 0; originally they used an unused pin of the keyboard controller to make it possible to enable it.) < 1277636837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madness. < 1277636839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Itanium, then?-) < 1277636849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 64 x 64-bit GPR? + 32 x 256 bit SIMD registers? < 1277636873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, IA64 is certainly nice on paper < 1277636899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but as someone (Knuth?) said: it turned out it was basically impossible to write good compilers for it < 1277636938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1277636973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why what? < 1277636993 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it impossible to write good compilers? < 1277637023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do you know about out of order execution? < 1277637033 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not. < 1277637043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what about superscalar cpus? < 1277637049 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not. < 1277637055 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see where this is going. < 1277637096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you are seeing "you need to know other stuff before I can explain why" coming up next then you are right < 1277637101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1277637124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can guess what the first thing is, but I'm lost on the second. < 1277637146 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277637175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, basically because IA64 is VLIW it leaves all this work to the compiler instead of doing it in hardware. In theory the compiler should be able to make better optimisations since it knows more and is less limited (doesn't have to be done quickly and so on). In practise it turned out to be too tricky. < 1277637198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-order_execution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superscalar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Long_Instruction_Word < 1277637372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Reading those is a better way to understand the issue than me trying to explain it < 1277637386 0 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1277637653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLIW hasn't really caught on, though there's this pretty successful not-so-V LIW RISC/DSP hybrid called FirePath (made by the folks that used to be Acorn) that e.g. Broadcom uses in their telco side hardware; see http://everything2.com/title/FirePath < 1277637708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sadly quite unknown; but the (lead?) designer was pretty enthusiastic about it when she spoke at an event I happened to be at. < 1277638262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there are those more strictly DSP things. < 1277638327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't Acorn turn into ARM? < 1277638332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I misremember completely < 1277638361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but most of what used to be Acorn got split out again. < 1277638394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277638499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The businessy parts are probably more confusing than the techy parts. :p < 1277638536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well isn't that some sort of fundamental rule of the world? < 1277638542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1277638580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of the three platforms that our DSP programming course's project-work could be done (because they had the hardware available) wad AD's SHARC, which has 4 instructions wide opcodes. < 1277638660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wad AD? < 1277638663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1277638685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analog Devices, or something like that. < 1277638688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway DSP is pretty niche really < 1277638700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was wondering about wad there < 1277638711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, "was". < 1277638735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of market for DSP chips, they just aren't so well-known. < 1277638787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(We did our project with the TI TMS320C54...16? I'm not sure of the two last numbers there.) < 1277638948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bit of explicit parallelism in that thing too; there are some opcodes with mnemonics of the form "A x y | B z" which do A to x, y and B to z simultaneously. But a very limited set of those. < 1277638995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277639009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, variable cycle count? < 1277639075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pshhff, I don't recall details. Delay slots in branches, at least. < 1277639140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ST B, *TMP+0% ; delay line sample <- (B_old >> 16) < 1277639140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : || MPY *PPTR+, B ; B_new <- T * (1-g*g) < 1277639140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ; TMP <- circ(TMP+AR0) < 1277639140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ; PPTR <- address of -g < 1277639146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does a store and multiply in parallel. < 1277639191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TMP and PPTR are macro parameters; they're actually register names when used.) < 1277639275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277639294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what would circ() be? < 1277639314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a circular-buffer addressing mode. < 1277639318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277639357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "+0%" suffix means "add the value of AR0, but do it modulo-style, using the starting address and length defined by the circular-buffer control registers". < 1277639406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case AR0 had the value 1; there's no "+%" addressing mode. (Just plain + would mean "increment by one".) < 1277639613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277639720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277639750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably ran out of bits to encode addressing modes in, or silicon to implement them in. :p < 1277639777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what would +% mean though? < 1277639816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Increment by one, but do the same circular-buffer thing. < 1277639823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have to waste a register to hold the number 1 in. < 1277639828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1277640083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly a 16-bit processor (memory access is done in 16-bit words), but it has two 40-bit wide accumulators (A and B). Rest of the registers (T + AR0 .. AR7) are 16-bit. < 1277640533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277640800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a dual-core ARM7 + TI C54x DSP chip in some bit of hardware I can't quite recall right now; apparently it was the predecessor of the OMAPx platforms that are used in a lot of smartphones nowadays. (The N900 has an OMAP3 3430 == 500 MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX 530 GPU + 430 MHz TI C64x+ DSP + some sort of image processor I don't know about.) < 1277640841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was meant to be parsed as "dual-core (ARM7 + C54x)", not "(dual-core ARM7) + C54x", in case it was unclear. < 1277640900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C64x, incidentally, is a real VLIW thing. 256-bit opcodes; don't know how many instructions that is, probably 8. < 1277641645 0 :DH____!~DHeadshot@cpc2-woki2-0-0-cust667.glfd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277641976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and unrelated to the classica C64 I presume? < 1277641979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classical* < 1277642245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very much so, yes. < 1277642324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The full name would be something like TMS320C64xx+, where xx is some two-digit number I don't know. < 1277643005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI folks sure can't spell: "Several Ubunto specific issues -- XDS100 support for Ubnutu 10.04 -- too problemnatic for emulation connectivity." < 1277643122 0 :DH____!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277643719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1277643834 0 :DH____!~DHeadshot@cpc2-woki2-0-0-cust667.glfd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277644053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277644298 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1277644298 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1277644298 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277644732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the problem with computing the 3-body problem? < 1277644743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, can it not be solved on a Turing machine? < 1277645361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a real answer, you might have to wait for one of the channel's mathematician, but my gut feeling (based on really vague recollections of handwavy descriptions) is that you can do it with numerical methods (and therefore with a Turing machine, if you want) to any arbitrary precision (if you have enough patience), but there are no easy (or practical for the purposes of getting results out of it, anyway) analytical solutions to it. < 1277645375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pluralize mathematician there. < 1277645431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one more bit of trivia for the C54x (ended up browsing through the manuals); if you do a delayed branch, it'll execute the two words following the branch, but you'll have to keep in mind that some instructions (those containing immediate values, at least) are two words long already. < 1277645452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes you wonder whether you could split a two-word instruction across the branch and have it execute correctly. < 1277645681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be somewhat useful in something like: [code that puts label1 or label2 to A]; BACCD A; NOP; LD #0xffff, A; label1: [raw word X]; ...; label2: [raw word Y]; ... < 1277645740 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to the more understandable: BACC A; label1: LD #X, A; ...; label2: LD #Y, A; ... < 1277645763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BACC A is basically BACCD A; NOP; NOP.) < 1277645882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what if you put a branch in the branch delay slot? < 1277645883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277645900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was explicitly defined as to resulting in undefined behaviour. < 1277645932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aww, it would be awesome if you could execute just a few instructions from the middle of another function that way < 1277646152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that it could work. < 1277646165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on some specific models. :p < 1277646375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a 3D renderer that supports non-Euclidean space? < 1277646422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage error: try 'nqc -help' to display options <-- how useless. What in my command line is wrong I wonder. Missing flag? typoed flag? Something else? < 1277646492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh missing filename it seems... But the command I tried to run shouldn't need one? huh < 1277646533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might also do something pretty strange. The thing has a 6-step pipeline, and there's already some magic involved to make the early steps (prefetch, fetch) start reading words from the branch target before the branch is actually executed. < 1277647111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take that as a "no", then. < 1277647292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should take that as a "I do not know of any" rather than "no". < 1277647308 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contrary to popular expections, I am in fact not omniscient. (I know it's hard to believe.) < 1277647314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You LIED. < 1277647362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I would've guessed someone would have at the very least hacked POV-Ray to do something bizarre, but a quick googling did not reveal anything. < 1277647448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be hard to make povray do that I expect < 1277647456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering all the other stuff done with it < 1277648171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have any experience parsing coff? < 1277648186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering writing a program that patches the OS on my RCX < 1277648202 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later on, anyone want to help me figure out the semantics of rotation in this program? < 1277648204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently whenever I mess around in the OS source code I have to re-download the whole thing < 1277648264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, quaternions? < 1277648281 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it's rotation around an axis < 1277648282 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that helps < 1277648439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's confusing you? < 1277648470 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For starters, why 0 degrees does not mean "do nothing" < 1277648580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean? < 1277648618 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but a guess is translation. It's automatically translating something < 1277648641 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not nice because there's separate input for translation < 1277648662 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rotation is counterclockwise, according to the documentation. < 1277648688 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.andras.net/yasbb.html#mozTocId911022 < 1277648704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you using quaternions? < 1277648711 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not? < 1277648713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that just Phantom_Hoover? < 1277648713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277649123 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, give me some coords for easy testing, multiples of 1000 < 1277649134 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me first do the obvious ones < 1277649157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, uh? easy testing with what? < 1277649172 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To determine WTF rotation means with this thing < 1277649190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, well, 0,0,0,0 ? < 1277649197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming a 4D geometry < 1277649203 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2d < 1277649215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, 0,0 then < 1277649226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, what is that thing btw? < 1277649236 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277649243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, oh btw, try 0,1000 and 1000,0 < 1277649250 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, got those < 1277649253 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-21-184.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1277649270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be rotating relative origo, absolute not relative < 1277649271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000,1000? < 1277649287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that is quite insane < 1277649288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, 0 would still do nothing. < 1277649294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, indeed < 1277649299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 1000,0 or 0,1000 would < 1277649309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how the coordinate system looks < 1277649320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000,1000 is a good idea too < 1277649337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, also are you rotating points or sprites? < 1277649339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else? < 1277649354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, and what is the program < 1277649359 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Points.. well, objects, but I'm ignoring the AW specific stuff as much as possible < 1277649361 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YASBB < 1277649364 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.andras.net/yasbb.html#mozTocId911022 < 1277649366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YASBB? < 1277649412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, what is it for exactly? < 1277649441 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, moving stuff in the game < 1277649447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, ah I see < 1277649452 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're relocating some of the stuff < 1277649460 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, everything's too far away < 1277649485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NS? WE? < 1277649491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange fields for rotating < 1277649494 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :North/South < 1277649496 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :East/West < 1277649498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I gather that < 1277649502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes no sense anyway < 1277649516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, which game is it? < 1277649518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What game? < 1277649528 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Project I've been working on for a while < 1277649539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds, it appears < 1277649541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277649546 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A game in Active Worlds < 1277649565 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YASBB froze < 1277649586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, haven't you got the source? < 1277649589 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1277649595 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not of YASBB < 1277649683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it closed-source? < 1277649705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, medium size mine sweeper in 48 seconds. New person record :) < 1277649721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personal* < 1277649722 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1277649745 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, it keeps freezing < 1277649754 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it dislikes the fake data I'm giving it < 1277649764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try disassembling it? < 1277649776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're in a particularly masochistic mood. < 1277649843 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simulated data has () in the name of the object < 1277649848 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may be problematic < 1277649868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crappy software? < 1277649909 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the name is really supposed to hold a filename < 1277649931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, and? () is perfectly valid in filenames afaik < 1277649943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything but the zero byte and / are allowed iirc < 1277649947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, windows? hm < 1277649959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably different rules there, < 1277649961 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, it's not AW's fault < 1277649975 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X mysteriously substitutes : for / in filenames. < 1277649985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not mysterious at all < 1277649995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, considering that : was used as path delimiter on classical Mac OS < 1277649996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1277649999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1277650016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, classic mac os had fun paths < 1277650032 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a file that shows up in ls as "a:b" will be "a/b" in the Finder. < 1277650035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Foo <-- file in current directory < 1277650044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Foo:Bar <-- file Bar on volume Foo < 1277650059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) :Foo:Bar <-- file Bar in directory Foo in current directory < 1277650075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) ::Foo:Bar <-- equiv to ../Foo/Bar < 1277650075 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It froze. Again < 1277650078 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries
< 1277650081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) :::Foo:Bar <-- equiv to ../../Foo/Bar < 1277650106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, this was one of the main issues when porting ICK to classic MacOS < 1277650118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it was careless with adding extra / < 1277650123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would not hurt on unix < 1277650130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor would extra \ hurt on windows < 1277650141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on classical MacOS it changed stuff completely < 1277650158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and : is current directory < 1277650162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, fun eh? < 1277650172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1277650195 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't really explain why OS X substitutes : for / in the finder. < 1277650337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well I suspect it is the reason, but it isn't a good one < 1277650339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1277650421 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277650434 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, simulation complete < 1277650438 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, let's test some stuff < 1277650456 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should the first rotate around coord be? < 1277650537 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It spontaneously froze < 1277650552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the thing you're trying to run again? < 1277650554 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And unfroze < 1277650563 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? The software? YASBB < 1277650568 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.andras.net/yasbb.html#mozTocId911022 < 1277650598 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall I try rotating around 0, 1000 in the "old build" (whatever that means) by 0 degrees? < 1277650650 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, that translated everything by (0, -1000) < 1277650753 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I get it now. < 1277650792 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not simply a "rotation point", it's a point of original build thing. I made a coordinate subtractor, but it's not needed. < 1277650798 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just use this, I think < 1277650811 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's _very_ crappily documented though. < 1277650995 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, to move something without rotating, the easiest thing to do is "rotate before build"? < 1277651025 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like "Rotate Before Build" is supposed to mean "Oh, the build's center is here" < 1277651168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, that would make sense < 1277651197 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish that it wasn't labelled "rotate before build" < 1277651216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, well okay < 1277651280 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me try moving the whole thing, centered at (0, 1000), to (0, 5000), rotated 180 < 1277651343 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, let me write these out < 1277651421 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0, 0) -> (0, 6000), (0, 1000) -> (0, 5000), (1000, 0) -> (-1000, 5999), (-1000, 0) -> (999, 6000), (0, -1000) -> (0, 7000) < 1277651463 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks good! < 1277651782 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you go about actually making a non-Euclidean raytracer? < 1277651803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd presumably need to specify the curvature of space somehow. < 1277651893 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you extend Gaussian curvature into 3 dimensions? < 1277651902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish oerjan was here... < 1277652039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you could wait for him to come on < 1277652065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, probably will happen within 8 hours < 1277652106 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the process would be along the lines of: create the space from a specification, then put stuff in it, then trace rays along geodesics. < 1277652116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there even algorithms for this? < 1277652359 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.75.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277652380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do you know much about non-Euclidean geometry? < 1277652394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very little < 1277652405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn. < 1277652415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask anyway < 1277652425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if it's practical to make a non-Euclidean rayttracer. < 1277652429 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/tt/t/ < 1277652457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I don't really know how you would go about doing so < 1277652462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg do it < 1277652476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, you need a way of specifying the curvature. < 1277652487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill read up on noneuclid geometry to help :P < 1277652503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of simply using the Gaussian curvature, if the concept is extensible into 2D. < 1277652515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which it really should be) < 1277652578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After that, the position of stuff needs to be established within the space. < 1277652616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's just a matter of tracing the geodesics. < 1277652645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raytracing is 3d... < 1277652657 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know. < 1277652671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have 3D non-Euclidean space, can't you? < 1277652764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277652770 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.75.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277652771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277652776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"British TV at the moment is basically made up of auctions, antiques, auctions of houses that people later do up, doing up houses, moving from one house to another usually abroad, boxes with an unknown quantity of money inside, quizzes loosely reliant on a vague grasp of general knowledge, talking to idiots about their issues and circa 1990s murder mysteries." < 1277652777 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you still need to subtract to determine altitude < 1277652795 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is going to cry
< 1277652831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hacking POVRay to do this looks like it will be nigh-impossible, as well. < 1277652891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, we can use this to do proper renders of R'Lyeh < 1277652900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raytracers are easy < 1277652936 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an algorithm for finding the geodesic between two points in N-E space? < 1277652946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly < 1277652996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably reflection can be kept as angle-of-incidence-equals-angle-of-reflection < 1277653306 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1277653448 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277653477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/orbits/ < 1277653482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be useful. < 1277653530 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277653535 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277653545 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1277653736 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277653982 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if YASBB has rounding issues
< 1277654183 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I don't understand the goedesic thing any more. < 1277655033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what thing? < 1277655073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also which N-E geometry are you planning for? < 1277655078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, aren't there several? < 1277655095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1277655121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway, how would you specify coordinates in them? < 1277655126 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of the 3D analogues of spherical and hyperbolic geometry. < 1277655139 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And co-ordinates are rather tricky. < 1277655186 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I'm not even sure how easy it will be to make the computer understand N-E geometry in the first place. < 1277655225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm. perhaps mathematica has something for it. It is worth checking. < 1277655313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1277655334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The top Google hit is for a MathWorld article with no Mathematica demonstration < 1277655422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277655452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, surely there must be some coordinate system for it though? < 1277655460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask oerjan when he gets here < 1277655466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or google < 1277655475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1277655562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, polar co-ordinates should work quite well. < 1277655827 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION may go to the bookstore tomorrow
< 1277655831 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe buy a math book < 1277655913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geomview supports some form of 3D NE geometry, but it confuses me a great deal. < 1277656047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple r < 1277656079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Then again, I'm not even sure how easy it will be to make the computer understand N-E geometry in the first place. < 1277656087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i predict as easy as E geometry, but with some extra double handling < 1277656135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, geomview is so confusing. < 1277656228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or IS it < 1277656237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1277656253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.mit.edu/geomview_v1.9.3/www/Non_002dEuclidean-Geometry.html < 1277656256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not for nice things. < 1277656297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default model is all three spaces is Virtual. This corresponds to the camera being in the same space as, and moving under the same set of transformations as, the geometry itself. <-- you may not want this because non-euclidean geometry is unintuitive and thus hard to manœuvre in < 1277656316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In hyperbolic space, the Projective model setting gives a view of the projective ball model of hyperbolic 3-space imbedded in Euclidean space. The camera is initially outside the unit ball. In this model, the camera moves by Euclidean motions and geometry moves by hyperbolic motions. < 1277656320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., < 1277656328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they embed a ball with hyperbolic 3-space inside... into euclidean space < 1277656335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have the camera /outside/ of the ball, and thus in euclidean space < 1277656336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I got these things. < 1277656340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277656344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what the conformal ball model is, but eh < 1277656351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :projective sounds best for hyperbolic geometry < 1277656359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ball is topologese for the inside of a sphere, isn't it? < 1277656363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In spherical space, the Projective model gives a view of half of the 3-sphere imbedded in Euclidean 3-space. Spherical motions give rise to projective transformations in the Projective model, and to Moebius transformations in the Conformal model. In both of these models the camera moves by Euclidean motions. < 1277656369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperbolic sounds less confusing :P < 1277656377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1277656405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are several sample hyperbolic space objects in the data/geom/hyperbolic subdirectory of the Geomview directory. Likewise, the subdirectory data/geom/spherical contains several sample spherical space objects. < 1277656409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ +$// < 1277656419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest looking at them with all three models and choosing the most intuitive; I bet for hyperbolic it will be Projective. < 1277656423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no such directory in my installation, by the way. < 1277656427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but note that this will /never/ be intuitive < 1277656429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there will be < 1277656431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in /usr/share, probably < 1277656435 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just spherical. < 1277656443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean the hyperbolic one. < 1277656517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what distro, package? < 1277656526 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu, geomview. < 1277656531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's debian/ubuntu [insert snarky remark about how debian fucks with every damn package] < 1277656532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277656547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geomview 1.9.4, incidentally. < 1277656552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also, you linked to fourmilab; thus i love you < 1277656572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: same as Arch < 1277656575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll download the data directory and see what's there < 1277656648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, now I know why it was bloody confusing < 1277656667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was viewing non-hyperbolic models with space set to hyperbolic. < 1277656768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and their FTP server seems to be down < 1277656770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect. < 1277656938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hmm, I lack the files too. < 1277656941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I was viewing non-hyperbolic models with space set to hyperbolic. < 1277656942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277656943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1277656950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it look awesome < 1277656976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it looked confusing. < 1277657006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what you get when a 3D program explodes. < 1277657026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: abstr.off in spherical geometry shows you the inside of the shape < 1277657026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1277657058 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1277657094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, because the light beams go across the universe? < 1277657101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what comes after 1, 3, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7? < 1277657101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, prolly < 1277657104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is that it's amazing < 1277657106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: -3.45 < 1277657135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, absolutely anything. < 1277657137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see two natural answers < 1277657146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12, according to OEIS hit #1. < 1277657148 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not very natural imo < 1277657151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1277657160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 10, 9 or 8. < 1277657161 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprising < 1277657161 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be e^i or xkcd. < 1277657173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming no background info < 1277657177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The 12 comes from: "a(1) = 1, a(n)= smallest number not occurring earlier such that a(n-1)*a(n) -1 is a prime. re-arrangement of natural numbers such that the product of adjacent terms is one more than a prime." < 1277657181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to know which sequences are important in math < 1277657187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...you know Sam Hughes and qntm.org? < 1277657192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah so 12 is not very natural < 1277657192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1277657199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who does < 1277657201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq does i know that < 1277657202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he there < 1277657229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277657236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay not that unnatural either, i misunderstood first < 1277657249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so okay you don't like sequences extrapolation i guess < 1277657253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sequence < 1277657262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277657274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i made a mistake, then 12 may have been the most natural one :) < 1277657276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see < 1277657295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Sam Hughes. < 1277657310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The 9 was from "Triangle read by rows which contains in row n that permutation of the n numbers T(n-1)+1..T(n) which yields a smallest multiple of n after concatenation. T(n) are the triangular numbers. If no such multiple exists, the row contains zeros". (Away for now, though.) < 1277657312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 3, 2, 4, 6, 5, 7 < 1277657362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm asking because i think my first answer was the less natural one < 1277657382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That I'd naturally read as 1 / 3,2 / 4 / 6,5 / 7 / 9,8 / 10 / 12,11 / 13 / ... -- is this the natural one you were thinking of? < 1277657393 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no that didn't occur to me < 1277657401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, well, bad news < 1277657409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1277657409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: his whole non-fiction/misc section has been deleted, it seems. < 1277657420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's not on his main page links and i can't think of the url < 1277657456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one of mine that gives 9 is "(add 2)^n sub 1 for n = 1, ..." < 1277657458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: abstr.off with conformal hyperbolic < 1277657461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be-yootiful < 1277657477 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your "imperative" thing is more natural, i think < 1277657479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP THROWING ME OFF ON TANGENTS. < 1277657489 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i had a slightly less local thingie that gives you 10 < 1277657495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was my first idea < 1277657503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Blargh. < 1277657563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 1, 3, 2, 4, 6, 5, 7, 10, 8, 11, 9 < 1277657568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's not even the "how to destroy the world" thing! < 1277657569 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it should be obvious < 1277657570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO! < 1277657582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait, wait, let's find the URL that it used to have. < 1277657591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/destroy < 1277657595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently that is now part of his "blog". < 1277657597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One question; why. < 1277657608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He stopped liking it? < 1277657610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/blog And oh my god can we have some fucking organisation. < 1277657637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking for his "what comes next, 1, 2, 3," page or something < 1277657698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's completely arbitrary. < 1277657707 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: see it? < 1277657713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have a function that will give literally any sequence. < 1277657722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's what the page was about < 1277657767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of those things I always want to tell people, but they never listen. < 1277657778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because it's a pedantic assholey point to make < 1277657781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277657785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm with alise < 1277657788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HAHAHAHA your reasonable request is stupid in the face of my edge-case" < 1277657795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always quite thoroughly obvious what the question means < 1277657797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes, I know. < 1277657807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277657807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what naturally contains these elements and other ones that satisfy some meaningful, possibly useful, property?" < 1277657807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it interesting. < 1277657815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well, find it interesting silently :P < 1277657888 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@pool-96-233-51-203.bstnma.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277657900 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, hyperbolising the helicoid is weird. < 1277657910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like something off Star Trek. < 1277657940 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it makes perfect sense in this context. < 1277657979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/joke hehehe < 1277657987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Their phasers are locking on!" "Shields up!" [BAM] "They've BYPASSED OUR SHIELDS!" "But how?" "Captain, I believe they are using a proto-nucleising energy transmitter to create a hole in our shields." "Quick, try hyperbolising the helicoid!" "But that's suicidal!" "Not when they're creating holes in it, it isn't! It won't be stable for long enough to create a wormhole!" "Hyperbolising..." [BAMS STOP] "...It worked!" < 1277657988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment by alex < 1277657990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I thought you meant tech the tech < 1277657995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap, the conformal projection looks like something out of Lovecraft. < 1277658008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what are you rendering with? < 1277658025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: geomview < 1277658054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles
< 1277658073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Idea for this whole Flinix thing: shar packages. :P < 1277658084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or just use tar :P < 1277658094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i strongly recommend using projective or conformal when trying to figure stuff out < 1277658103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But tar is a *program*! < 1277658105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flinix? < 1277658109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, from the screenshots it doesn't look like a raytracer though < 1277658113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That is included in BusyBox. < 1277658115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. < 1277658117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, MY name. MY name! < 1277658130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FURINIKUSU. Happy now? < 1277658136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277658139 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain! < 1277658143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHA MY NAME IS BETTER < 1277658147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Floppy Linux! < 1277658164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :フロッピ　リナクス < 1277658174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, DSL? < 1277658181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Too large. < 1277658188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to fit on a floppy < 1277658192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: used to. < 1277658195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway who uses floppies these days? < 1277658200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Who cares? < 1277658203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you even buy new ones? < 1277658209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can ... < 1277658212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1277658227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODAY: AnMaster discovers there is a world outside of his own computer setup. < 1277658238 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer to dedicate my last breath of air to getting more air. < 1277658251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half the point is just to be silly, anyways. :P < 1277658252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm fitting a modern kernel, full BusyBox utilities, X11, a window manager, and the dillo web browser onto a floppy disk. pikhq is wasting his time making a vastly inferior version of this and shall perish. < 1277658266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: If you know it's your last breath, who cares about air? < 1277658282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I predict you will fail because you SUCK. < 1277658289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, logically floppies should be the actually floppy ones only < 1277658295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and then I doubt you can buy new ones < 1277658301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: logically you're full of shit. < 1277658496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/1111 < 1277658496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here. < 1277658520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with Conformal? < 1277658528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sexy like a beast. < 1277658647 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, for some things it's almost identical to Projective, but for others it's what you would expect if you left a bomb in a polygon factory. < 1277658739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, does it work for sequences that contain rational numbers? Since the author of that page mentions "integer sequences" specifically it seems like it may not be the case. < 1277658747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1277658758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does. < 1277658760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_polynomial < 1277658769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works for reals too. < 1277658771 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works by making a polynomial that intersects all of the points. < 1277658779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, he shouldn't limit it to integer sequences then on that page. < 1277658785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, shut up. < 1277658797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integer sequences are the only ones you're ever asked about. < 1277658817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no? < 1277658826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spherical Conformal projection of the sphere is cool... < 1277658839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, screenshot or such? < 1277658850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd run out. < 1277658859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1277658866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what does it look like? < 1277658868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd take too long for each thing. < 1277658890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 6 spheres stuck together in a cubic way. < 1277658923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you could screenshot just this one < 1277658942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine... < 1277658946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you mean the PC 5.25" floppies, you can buy those from floppydisks.com, though I'm not sure if they have suppliers that still manufacture them. They do say they're able to get floppies in large quantities, so maybe. < 1277658986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see how long it would take. 1) hit PrtScr, 2) select save in dialog 3) use command line script to upload it somewhere (I have one for omploader, there are other ones for other services out there iirc), paste link script gave on irc < 1277658990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess about 10 seconds < 1277659021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or alt-printscreen for current window < 1277659024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least under gnome < 1277659102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vNHJsdQ < 1277659103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There! < 1277659150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, nice. < 1277659227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it does that for all of the Platonic solids. < 1277659262 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it renders a hypercube much better than Euclidean does < 1277659326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION implements lagrange polynomials in haskell
< 1277659430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind, it only gives values, not the actual polynomial < 1277659445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how do i make an object go away? < 1277659447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deleting it doesn't work < 1277659478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd? < 1277659494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. press 'd' twice while the object is selected? < 1277659617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still apepars on screen. < 1277659619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*appears < 1277659717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know why. < 1277659781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work for you? < 1277659824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277659843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when selecting it in the list of the Main window and pressing dd? < 1277659860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in the camera window somehow? < 1277660037 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :List in the Main window. < 1277660042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1277660160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-alise- VERSION xchat 2.8.8 Linux 2.6.33-ARCH [x86_64/2.01GHz/SMP] <-- I think you need to update. Arch is on 2.6.34 now isn't it? < 1277660412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. I'm a bit lazy. < 1277660421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is X-Chat telling you my system specifications...? < 1277660424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Is it taboo, in the world of software, to deliver code which is at the same time freely available for anybody to inspect but not available for free modification? Is it acceptable to say "look but don't touch"?]] --Sam Hughes < 1277660425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; no. < 1277660431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thou hath disappointed me, Sam Hughes. < 1277660464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I was working on performance enhancements in the HATETRIS AI algorithm. Someone, unsolicited, sent me a version of HATETRIS with all of the enhancements I was working on already implemented. For example, expressing each row in the well as a binary number encoding a bit field, instead of an array. Does that person now get co-credit on what I was about to do?]] < 1277660467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who gives a shit? < 1277660506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because xchat does that by default < 1277660513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Why? < 1277660523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1277660525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: At worst a security hole, at best a... completely useless non-feature. < 1277660538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you could have exploits in your kernel; security by obscurity, yes, but still, no need to blab those kinds of things) < 1277660559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl upgrade that I need to restart X for... < 1277660560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and in the one move I *wouldn't* expect of X-Chat, it seems to be unconfigurable from the GUI < 1277660612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, I have a new VERSION string. < 1277660620 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277660625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, it doesn't work. < 1277660649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, turn it off (forgot where) then add a custom one < 1277660652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl really now < 1277660656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's the first part I'm trying to do < 1277660688 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277660721 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h226.52.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277660726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi relet, CakeProphet < 1277660749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/set irc_hide_version on < 1277660750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it btw < 1277660764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have a new VERSION string without pesky system details. < 1277660789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, list of available netcats: < 1277660816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netcat 1.10 -- http://nc110.sourceforge.net/ (plus various patched versions) < 1277660816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nmap.org Ncat -- http://nmap.org/ncat/ < 1277660816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Netcat -- http://netcat.sourceforge.net/ < 1277660829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of which respond to nc(1), and have very similar names to "nc" or "netcat". Sheesh. < 1277661000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what the simplest Linux bootloader is.
< 1277661007 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what this program does: 8============================D < 1277661021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something not suitable for a pg-13 channel < 1277661029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lilo is pretty damn simple < 1277661031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially old lilo < 1277661036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that, syslinux? < 1277661038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally one that can be written to a floppy via cat boot linux > /dev/fdd < 1277661039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lightweight apparently < 1277661046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or perhaps even loadlin < 1277661048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw. Filesystems. < 1277661049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1277661057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Screw formatted floppies. < 1277661077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://busybox.net/~vda/mboot/ < 1277661080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Master boot record that boots. < 1277661089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://busybox.net/~vda/linld/ DOS linux loader from the same guy. < 1277661093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it load Linux? < 1277661115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going with "no". < 1277661138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What? < 1277661140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mboot or linld? < 1277661141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both do. < 1277661146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linld is designed for loading Linux from DOS. < 1277661151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mboot. < 1277661153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah < 1277661155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not < 1277661156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Directly load Linux. < 1277661157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but linld would < 1277661163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, it's just a COM < 1277661165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't use many syscalls < 1277661187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/1111 <<< a better answer than an ugly random polynomial is "after 1 1 1 1 there's a 5, in the sequence 111151111511115..." < 1277661191 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lot more natural < 1277661198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just get rid of the dos-unloading shit from linld and you're done :P < 1277661227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the statement is more "for every sequence of reals there is a polynomial such that f(n) = a_n" < 1277661236 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Guess I'll just make linld run on direct hardware and call it a day then. :P < 1277661238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh was that stated k < 1277661239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just happens to give "slight" justification to giving any answer to "next in sequence" < 1277661244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well implicitly < 1277661252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by explaining lagrange interpolation < 1277661264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the nmap ncat isn't a bad one as such. And I seem to have no one called nc on my system, only /usr/bin/ncat < 1277661283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but calling entirely independent programs the same name sucks. Just creates confusion. < 1277661299 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much less justification than taking a repeating set of integers imo; well, okay i guess if it was not true that every finite sequence can be expressed as a polynomial, then that would be a lot more justification < 1277661299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well it seems to be called ncat not netcat or nc consistently? < 1277661300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially GNU Netcat, which is un-UNIXy bloat completely the opposite of what Hobbit intended. < 1277661306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's in C++. < 1277661306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gnu netcat takes up both netcat and nc. < 1277661308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is called "netcat". < 1277661312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shares no code with netcat. < 1277661313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes the gnu one does < 1277661318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I meant the nmap.org one < 1277661323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but still < 1277661325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a confusing name < 1277661330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1277661331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was confused by it until i figured it out :P < 1277661373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, just had to do a pacman -Qo followed by pacman -Qi to find out it was a nmap.org one. Think man page also mentions it < 1277661387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for the Linux 2.4 boot sector.
< 1277661406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's no arch package for stock Hobbit netcat 1.10 so I had to compile it myself. < 1277661439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not even aur? < 1277661453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aur/nc is a version patched with god-knows-what. < 1277661457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it comes to netcat, I'm a purist. :-) < 1277661469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you needed to patch too iirc? < 1277661478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the structures and variables aren't named "poop", if there isn't a define called GAPING_SECURITY_HOLE, if it doesn't have *Hobbit*'s signature on it, I won't use it. < 1277661479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway I doubt the hobbit one does ipv6 < 1277661483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I just couldn't figure out the build system < 1277661487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I had to add one patch (to include a header file) < 1277661495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just bitrot ... of the unix systems not of netcat :-) < 1277661503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't -- thankfully, nobody else does ipv6 either < 1277661517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so now my thunderbird is suddenly called "lanikai"... Irritating. < 1277661526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably another trademark issue. < 1277661537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there is a patched netcat with ipv6 < 1277661541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1277661549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but it was called shredder before. Oh it seems it is still called shredder in a few places < 1277661560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shredder is a confusing name for a mail client < 1277661563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they change name every new version < 1277661588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I found shredder a funny name < 1277661598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it still says shredder on the "you just updated" tab < 1277661620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/CtXcm.jpg < 1277661621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my word. < 1277661640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the good old loadlin for "loading Linux from DOS"; I have no idea which one of those would be simplest. < 1277661655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: linld was created because loadlin broke for the author and he found it too complex to fix < 1277661658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, linld is simpler. < 1277661660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/fix$/fix./ < 1277661683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs. 404 for enigmail version supposed to work with this < 1277661686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linux boot protocol is (surprisingly) well documented in Documentation/x86/boot.txt, though, so it's not hard to whip up a loader. < 1277661690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fetches Linux 2.4 in hopes of being able to use its boot sector
< 1277661701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it came with a bootloader. Bwahahah. < 1277661702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just write your own loader ... although you'd have to do initramfs stuff < 1277661702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1277661717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I strongly suggest you get rid of tmpfs, using shmfs or whatever it is instead, add block devices, and use initrd. < 1277661721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: initramfs from the point of view of a bootloader is the same as initrd. < 1277661726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. < 1277661779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll compare the size of tmpfs vs. an initrd with other filesystems. < 1277661802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if you disable tmpfs < 1277661806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there's some built in filesystem < 1277661808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shmfs or ramfs or something < 1277661822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so disable tmpfs, disable initramfs, enable block devices, disable every block device thing there is, enable initrd < 1277661824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be smaller < 1277661830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw you can compile a filesystem into the kernel. < 1277661833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And how do you propose getting anything *onto* the ramfs? < 1277661841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1277661854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Umm ... serialise the ramfs to disk! < 1277661862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't work. < 1277661866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fine, initramfs then. :P < 1277661869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Look at this: http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Initramfs#Embedding_into_the_Kernel < 1277661872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want the initramfs to be embedded into the kernel image, edit your kernel config and set Initramfs source file(s) to the root of your initramfs, (e.g /usr/src/initramfs): < 1277661872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux Kernel Configuration: Enabling the initramfs < 1277661872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :General setup ---> < 1277661872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (/usr/src/initramfs) Initramfs source file(s) < 1277661872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now when you compile your kernel it will automatically compress the files into a cpio archive and embed it into the bzImage. You will need to recompile the kernel any time you make any changes to your initramfs. < 1277661881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm aware of how you can compile in an initramfs. < 1277661885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is quite nice. < 1277661885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277661886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1277661893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*delete last line < 1277661896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, we need an irc correction language < 1277661942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes a subset of sed works well < 1277661957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/^#$/d < 1277661963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah we need something more esoteric < 1277661964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would delete that line you wanted deleted < 1277661976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vimish stuff could work quite well, "3 delete previous line" < 1277661982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to erase the three previous lines < 1277661995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, the prefix would be a * < 1277661997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is certainly esoteric < 1277662009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1277662010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and invalid programs would be specified to run with sed, failing that, perl (more regular expression capabilities) < 1277662021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that, the human should figure out the program's intent :P < 1277662092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders a matrix based esolang.
< 1277662097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as in the movie < 1277662113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as in the math concept < 1277662142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both < 1277662148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually, could elementary matrix math be TC? < 1277662152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1277662160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you need to extend it with I wonder... < 1277662162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all elementary matrix math functions terminate :P < 1277662171 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright so. question about bash < 1277662192 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wanted a shell program that I could run to communicate with a background server process... how would I accomplish this? < 1277662210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, good point. However I want a TC, self modifying matrix based language that is basic matrix math + the minimum extra required to make it TC < 1277662216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to ponder how < 1277662219 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you get pids from process names? < 1277662221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a pony... < 1277662235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: A few options. < 1277662235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not asking anyone else to make this :P < 1277662242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A file socket. < 1277662244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A TCP socket. < 1277662250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A theprogram.pid file. < 1277662254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redirecting STDIO < 1277662256 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.6/20100625231939] < 1277662257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be easiest < 1277662271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which is basically the degenerate case of a file socket (which i forget the proper name of) < 1277662273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not unix socket) < 1277662276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i don't think...) < 1277662281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting the bg server process from the shell and redirecting it's stdio to, say, fd 4 and fd 5 < 1277662284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fifo < 1277662285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :socket < 1277662296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1277662296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well doesn't have to be a fifo on the fs < 1277662302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right < 1277662315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or just write and read to fd 4 and 5 directly ofc < 1277662323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a fifo would be the cleanest fs way to do this < 1277662328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you do don't use ipc sockets < 1277662331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i'll kill you < 1277662372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, you could get pid easily of the last backgrounded program using some variable < 1277662378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember which one
< 1277662409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes $! < 1277662423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$ is pid of the shell itself < 1277662437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is wrong with ipc sockets? < 1277662450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used them and don't know much about them really < 1277662457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: imagine the most complicated, stupid way to do ipc you can < 1277662461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now layer it on everything < 1277662462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now sdfoji < 1277662468 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is this something that I could do at any time? < 1277662470 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1277662473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only tried to use them once and started looking them up and immediately i was just like "yeah fuck that" < 1277662476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah < 1277662477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: write a .pid file. < 1277662480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like everyone else :P < 1277662482 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log in to an SSH and run this program and it'll connect with the server < 1277662490 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ah okay. Didn't even consider that. Shut it. :P < 1277662495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: dude we've been telling you how to do that for the past ages :P < 1277662496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: or use a fifo < 1277662497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, make the program write it's pid to a file then < 1277662498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the filesystem < 1277662504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do most pid files go? < 1277662506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/var/somewhere/program.pid < 1277662508 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you've not even mentioned it once. < 1277662509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's somewhere, i forget < 1277662512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: incorrect. < 1277662514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, /var/run perhaps < 1277662519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet: A few options. < 1277662519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, I'm not asking anyone else to make this :P < 1277662519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A file socket. < 1277662519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A TCP socket. < 1277662519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A theprogram.pid file. < 1277662521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that tend to be init.d only < 1277662542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah yes, /var/run < 1277662543 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that was ages ago, /and/ for something unrelated. < 1277662544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the pid doesn't allow you to talk to the program easily. Only signals < 1277662549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no... it wasn't. < 1277662552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wasn't ages ago < 1277662557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: indeed < 1277662559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a few minutes ago < 1277662561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which is why i'm suggesting a fifo < 1277662572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@ping run]$ ls < 1277662572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ConsoleKit dhcpcd rpcbind.lock syslog-ng.ctl xdm.pid < 1277662572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crond.pid dhcpcd-eth0.pid rpcbind.pid syslog-ng.pid < 1277662572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daemons hald rpcbind.sock utmp < 1277662572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbus lirc sudo VirtualBox < 1277662577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like rpcbind and syslog-ng :P < 1277662577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I forgot how fifos on the file system work when you close them < 1277662582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can they be reopened? < 1277662586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think so, yes. < 1277662589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277662590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise why would syslog-ng use it for control < 1277662599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make the fifo /var/run/foo.(sock|ctl) and use it to communicate, voila < 1277662602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR < 1277662602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a fifo or socket I wonder < 1277662605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just start a damn tcp server < 1277662612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how would i find out? < 1277662620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls -l and check first char < 1277662623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@ping run]$ file rpcbind.sock < 1277662623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rpcbind.sock: socket < 1277662623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@ping run]$ file syslog-ng.ctl < 1277662623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syslog-ng.ctl: socket < 1277662629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, what kind of socket is that? < 1277662634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srwxr-xr-x 1 root root 0 29 maj 19.54 syslog-ng.ctl < 1277662638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, unix socket I presume < 1277662647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only one that can show up on the file system < 1277662650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1277662656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't think you can make bash talk to it though < 1277662662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a tcp socket :P < 1277662678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i have said many times, tcp should really have ports be strings so that this stuff is viable < 1277662682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :localhost:syslog-ng < 1277662683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1277662684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that has the downside of not having permissions on it < 1277662801 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: were we talking about doing hot-swapping? < 1277662808 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when that was said? < 1277662817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what? < 1277662821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you never said that. < 1277662831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hotswapping should just be done by < 1277662840 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh... it was just a second ago. I didn't scroll up to see it. :P < 1277662841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -SIGHUP $(cat /var/run/foo.pid) < 1277662871 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr Chrome and Reddit don't mix < 1277662919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two rabbits have just attempted to mate. < 1277662919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would probably need two fifos btw < 1277662926 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277662926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks the reopening behaviour
< 1277662930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To put this into perspective, I would like to note that one of them is big and the other one is tiny. < 1277662943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they're both neutered. < 1277662947 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.pid file seems the easiest. < 1277662965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I've seen SIGHUP to mean "reload", and /var/run/foo.pid is very common. < 1277662969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all you need is to tell people to do: < 1277662974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -HUP $(cat /var/run/foo.pid) < 1277662980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, eh, it seems to close both ends when you close it on the writing end at least < 1277662986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fifos that is < 1277662993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh cow@someserver.com 'kill -HUP $(cat /var/run/foo.pid)' < 1277662994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tested with cat < 1277662999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I *think* ssh starts a shell.) < 1277663000 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: dunno if I'll have access to that directory on the server I'd be hosting from, so I might just put it in the local directory of the program. < 1277663010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you're going to use a shared server? < 1277663016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you, retarded? :| < 1277663024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy a fucking vps :P < 1277663028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, closing the reading end does not result in that < 1277663085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, what are you doing this for? < 1277663088 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hey fuck you. At this point I don't know what I'm going to run on. < 1277663090 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUD server. < 1277663098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey fuck you buddy. < 1277663109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, if you use erlang there are easier ways for reconnecting an erlang shell < 1277663110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah, i'll just say that ... you want a vps < 1277663125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$15-$20/mo, not a gigantic expense if you really want to run a proper mud server. < 1277663131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course you'd need more if it grew to ... any size) < 1277663186 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not going to use Erlang though. and yes, I know it can, but I'm going with Haskell for sure. < 1277663192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not use Erlang? < 1277663197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty perfect for a MUD :P < 1277663208 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... it's weird. < 1277663210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell? You'd better have the objects be coded in Haskell, or you fail. < 1277663216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Haskell isn't "weird" :P < 1277663224 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what else would the objects be coded in? < 1277663236 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is weird in a good way. < 1277663239 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang feels cumbersome. < 1277663249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: some mudscript thing. < 1277663257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gl sandboxing haskell, i suggest using haskell-plugins. < 1277663260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mueval < 1277663267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah mueval < 1277663268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/mueval < 1277663276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only does expressiosn i think, not sure < 1277663280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by gwern, though, so you know it's good. < 1277663281 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: why would I sandbox it. I'm going to be the only programmer. < 1277663286 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to program everything the normal way. < 1277663288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh, not a MUSH < 1277663290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a MUD < 1277663292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how thoroughly boring < 1277663303 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: cool story < 1277663315 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUD/MUSH is an arbitrary distinction. < 1277663327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mushes have user-codable objects. < 1277663346 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. I would consider it in the future. < 1277663355 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, it would not be Haskell for that. < 1277663387 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's easy. < 1277663390 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think so. < 1277663393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mueval or haskell-plugins < 1277663395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are easy to use. < 1277663400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you don't do it you fail forever :| < 1277663407 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1277663412 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll keep that in mind then. < 1277663419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mueval only does expressions i think so you'd want haskell-plugins < 1277663427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure the world is structured functionally though :) < 1277663429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be awesome < 1277663446 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure how to do that. :P < 1277663456 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it will probably be stateful, I'm sure. < 1277663463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1277663465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then don't use haskell < 1277663467 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrency variables and all that. < 1277663493 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm going to stick to message passing when I can < 1277663517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ erl -sname foo and then erl -sname bar -remsh foo@localhost < 1277663523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1277663529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in different shells < 1277663540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could start the first as a daemon easily enough < 1277663557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, it seems sad missing out on easy hot code swap though < 1277663575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :message passing? < 1277663577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at haskell :( < 1277663579 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to be convinced either way. If I decide on Erlang it will be independently. < 1277663631 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell wins at parsing and text handling. Haskell can be modified to do all the bells and whistles Erlang would be considered for. < 1277663662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, except possibly the hot code swapping part, which according to pikhq would be somewhat painful to do in haskell < 1277663677 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell-coded commands would be able to load in their own Parsec parsers. It would be sweet. < 1277663686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Which is painful to do in literally every language but Erlang. < 1277663686 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh. I can do something that's good enough to the same thing < 1277663690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're both wrong < 1277663691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite nice indeed < 1277663694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, very true < 1277663697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of you, stop talking < 1277663699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq can keep talking < 1277663710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you forgot the magic word < 1277663718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What for, pray tell? < 1277663722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btoh of you, stop the fuck talking < 1277663723 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright well < 1277663726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :P < 1277663729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wrong magic word :P < 1277663733 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go do something else and maybe return when alise disappears. < 1277663746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1277663747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your choice < 1277663748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, sounds like a good idea. < 1277663756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl too < 1277663761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was joking you know ... < 1277663762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*both < 1277663778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell wins at parsing, is quite good at concurrency, is functional... Only things Erlang's got on it is being distributed and hotloading of code. < 1277663785 0 :DH____!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277663832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooobody can heeeaaar youuuu :P < 1277663836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've all run away because of me < 1277663849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277663864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg mayan long count calendar dates < 1277663865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are written as < 1277663869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should eat
< 1277663874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baktun . katun . tun . uinal . kin < 1277663876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY'RE IP ADDRESSES < 1277663890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's currently 12 . 19 . 17 . 8 . 12 < 1277663900 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I'm still lurking. I just prefer not to be verbally abused when I speak, even if it isn't really taken seriously. < 1277663908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, someone nmap 12.19.17.8.12 < 1277663912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay okay so we need one more field < 1277663927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The 'fuck' was in response to AnMaster asking for the magic word. < 1277663933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not an additional exhortation. < 1277663960 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it was nothing particularly specific that made me come to that conclusion < 1277663969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I did not verbally abuse you. < 1277663982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I won't be gone for the rest of the day and part of the night, so good luck with that. < 1277664012 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make some crazy functional scripting lang and hotswap that. :) < 1277664019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call it "Haskell". < 1277664061 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any sense way to hot-swap Haskell though. The "copyover" approach is the best though. Because it a) doesn't disconnect anyone b) restarts the server cleanly with the new code. < 1277664072 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :effectively all I need to be able to do. < 1277664077 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to avoid having to disconnect players. < 1277664085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They have the most impressive 1:1 scale model, display cities I have ever seen." -- on North Korea < 1277664105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Having actually been to North Korea, I can tell you that the best thing about it is getting to leave afterwards." < 1277664109 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but get this: it'll be object oriented functional. < 1277664117 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, naturally, it's a MUD. there's objects everywhere. < 1277664126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/dn9RY.jpg <-- They did not survive this. < 1277664131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: objects, A.K.A. closures < 1277664155 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. I didn't know closures could inherit. < 1277664193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objects can't inherit. < 1277664202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1277664205 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277664206 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but I'm sure it can be composed of closures. So why don't I just use machine code then? < 1277664215 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: depends. prototyping can do that. < 1277664215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, in the usual model CLASSES inherit. < 1277664222 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all OO is Java. < 1277664224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, Alan Kay did not envision inheritance. < 1277664236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He now resents inheritance quite a bit. < 1277664245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inheritance is basically legislated abstraction-breaking. < 1277664250 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad he has no real say on it. < 1277664259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you're the one being a dick. < 1277664271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with inheritance? < 1277664280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, the only defining attribute of "object-oriented programming" is that you have "objects" consisting of data, with the functions contained within closing over the containing object. < 1277664284 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems quite reasonable. < 1277664294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[One of our guides knew the basic outlines of Michael Jackson's life: "Oh, the guy who was born black and then became white and weird and just died?"]] < 1277664299 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that sounds perfectly sound to me. < 1277664306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because your inherited class depends on implementation details of its inheriter < 1277664318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yeah, it *is* the single common attribute of all OOP things. :) < 1277664318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the point of OOP? To encapsulate and thus hide implementation details. < 1277664326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inheritance: It's the feature of OOP that defeats the point of OOP. Yay! < 1277664334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN, SUDDENLY, Java. < 1277664338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this can *easily* be done in any functional language with abstract data types. < 1277664360 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how would the methods be done sanely? Dynamic dispatch? < 1277664375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anything with inheritance is defeating the point of OOP? < 1277664391 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the thing about that alise is that there are different uses for inheritance. < 1277664396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: pretty much... purist oop is not very practical, practical oop is not very useful. < 1277664400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Methods? Those are functions inside the object that close over the object. < 1277664403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLOS? < 1277664410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the only proper form of inheritance is not inheritance, it is COMPOSITION. < 1277664414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And guess what closures are really good at? < 1277664415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Composition. < 1277664425 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and generally implementation details still don't need to be known. Instead you have an abstraction of the "core behavior" of a process which you can proceed to expand on < 1277664451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some very smart oop people who dislike inheritance and like composition: alan kay, gilad bracha. also, anyone who has ever actually thought about or studied it. < 1277664465 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I meant how would you handle types in Haskell. < 1277664478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Whaddya mean? < 1277664486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Types? Can you do them in Haskell?" < 1277664488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Composition...? < 1277664520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sticking two things together to make a new thing. < 1277664522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Instead of having a class "be" another class plus some stuff, we have a class contain the class "you inherit from". < 1277664531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, composition is putting your parent in yourself .... bad terminology. < 1277664540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fussy and awkward to use with existing OOP languages. < 1277664542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy with closures. < 1277664545 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm just wondering how you could sanely implement all of the OOP functionality in Haskell. < 1277664547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do this all the *time* in functional programming, and in certain OOP languages. < 1277664547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what pikhq said. < 1277664549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You stick two things together. < 1277664557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: by using the parts of OOP that are actually decent and useful. < 1277664559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most sane in Smalltalk and Tcl's SNIT object system. < 1277664596 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :composition is wonky in static typing unless you have a wicked type system (aka not Java) < 1277664610 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as implicit casting goes. < 1277664613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wait, what does the CLOS use? < 1277664646 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the prototype model fits best in a language like Haskell < 1277664646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: good thing haskell has a wicked type system. < 1277664653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: clos is conventional oop, it just does conventional oop really well < 1277664655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still conventional oop < 1277664655 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have objects, you can clone objects, and you can clone via composition. < 1277664659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, you don't do that < 1277664665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no cloning < 1277664667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is no mutation < 1277664675 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right. < 1277664676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you instead have constructors, which are basically ... functions returning the object closures < 1277664689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can tell the object to give you an identical object but with some stuff different < 1277664693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are very easily composed, naturally < 1277664702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use pattern matching to handle the messages you want < 1277664717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data SimpleObject = SimpleObject {method1 :: Foo -> Bar; method2 :: Bar -> Baz; bar :: Bar}; newSimpleObject newBar = let this = SimpleObject {method1 = \_-> bar this;method2 = \x->barToBaz;bar = newBar} in this < 1277664718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then have a wildcard "handle x = mySoCalled'Parent' x" < 1277664725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bam, a simple object in OOP Haskell. < 1277664760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That stems directly from first-class functions, though. < 1277664766 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be sort of like prototype because there wouldn't technically be a distinction between an object and a class. < 1277664774 0 :DH____!~DHeadshot@cpc2-woki2-0-0-cust667.glfd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277664796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes. Classes are a bizzare, bizzare thing. < 1277664817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas just objects are actually a very simple and occasionally reasonable abstraction. < 1277664853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it we don't like conventional OOP here, then. < 1277664859 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think it arises from a) bad type systems b) easier to deal with. if you do everything with objects you either need to consume large amounts of memory storing function pointers or have something like differential inheritance. < 1277664879 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or delegates < 1277664944 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newObject = (CMyObject ...) `delegatesTo` DelegateObject < 1277664952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yeah, most object systems involve large amounts of memory going towards function pointers. :P < 1277664968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes a good object example in haskell
< 1277664990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hooray, do it better than I! < 1277665037 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though some operators would be fancy. :>: for delegation. :) < 1277665062 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::<: = swap (:>:) < 1277665103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: BTW, it seems that dynamically linked binaries *on uclibc* are smaller than statically linked ones pretty consistently. < 1277665119 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... would it be reasonable or sane to make Haskell Objects members of State or ST? < 1277665121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also beat the hell out of glibc's dynamic binaries. < 1277665158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But they art slower and you need kernel support! < 1277665162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes the kernel bigger! < 1277665180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No kernel support is involved, actually. < 1277665190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> counter#Value < 1277665190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1277665190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> counter#Increment#Value < 1277665190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1277665190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> counter#Increment#Decrement#Value < 1277665191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dynamic linking is done in userspace. < 1277665191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1277665218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the entire total of kernel support: "interpreter requested; call that with the binary as an argument". < 1277665229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "interpreter" does all the dynamic linking. < 1277665239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is ld-linux.so) < 1277665277 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think defining members in OO Haskell should involve simply creating regular Haskell data constructors and then plugging them into the OO constructor < 1277665295 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has stuff like delegate information < 1277665309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Dude, you fail. < 1277665334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> counter < 1277665334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter (Value = 0) < 1277665334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> counter#Increment#Increment < 1277665334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter (Value = 2) < 1277665336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, I win. < 1277665336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any sane OO Haskell, there is *no distinction* between members and any other function. Except they happen to close over the right things. < 1277665339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ^ I win. < 1277665346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Source code? < 1277665348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, nice. < 1277665380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://pastie.org/1020883.txt?key=vnekr3vinecdhfimobgrw < 1277665389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do functions with arguments now, then some composition. < 1277665409 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another problem with actually installing an operating system on JSMIPS: At present, I maintain the UNIX process abstraction by actually giving each process its own simulator instance :P < 1277665433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not bad. < 1277665436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :P < 1277665445 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what alise just did is no different than what I was saying. < 1277665448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There are some issues due to restrictions in Haskell; if you want to do an argumenty function you have to do: < 1277665452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter' n Modify = \n -> ... < 1277665453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of < 1277665455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter' n Modify n = ... < 1277665457 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the OO handling stuff... and then there is the programmer defined member values. < 1277665459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes pattern matching a bit of a bitch < 1277665463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also the Agent stuff is a bit verbose < 1277665466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just a proof of concept < 1277665475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it reflects well on Haskell's flexibility. < 1277665487 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO. Verbose? That's unusual. < 1277665496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277665499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> (counter#Modify) 3 < 1277665499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter (Value = 3) < 1277665502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta make that precedence better. < 1277665519 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# should probably bind pretty close < 1277665575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I don't think it's /possible/ to bind tighter than function calls. < 1277665584 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately not. < 1277665606 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely there's a way to do counter#Modify 3 < 1277665615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would require binding tighter than a function call. :-) < 1277665621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have Modify construct a message... < 1277665624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries that
< 1277665639 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so < 1277665646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> counter#Modify 3 < 1277665646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter (Value = 3) < 1277665647 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277665648 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obj#(msg x y z) < 1277665650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then (Modify 3) is the message. < 1277665650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277665650 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that? < 1277665653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523. < 1277665655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: like that, yeah < 1277665662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> counter#Modify 3#Value < 1277665662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1277665665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: guess what I've invented < 1277665668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1277665697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: a purely-functional, statically typed communication mechanism that goes faster than the speed of light? < 1277665704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OOP Haskell. < 1277665708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, technically, reinvented for the Nth time. < 1277665710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this time it's gooood. < 1277665726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I wasn't that far off < 1277665746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... my objects have no notion of self < 1277665752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested where clauses, fuck yeah < 1277665765 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the nice thing about that setup is you can have functions that return messages. < 1277665770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yep < 1277665773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can do e.g. < 1277665774 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obj#(helper x y z) < 1277665777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter#destroyTheWorld < 1277665785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I invented that C# feature that lets you do that, static methods or something < 1277665790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND there's a built-in syntactical distinguisher for them! < 1277665794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am I such a fucking genius :| < 1277665835 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have a feeling typeclasses could be used for great good < 1277665844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's time to BASH in BASH! < 1277665854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, where clauses only apply to one pattern-matching clause < 1277665856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's retarded < 1277665914 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277665934 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: perhaps put all of Agents functionality into a typeclass so that "metaobjects" can be programmed. Essentially like classes except better. < 1277665947 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# and various composition operators < 1277665985 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then you could have objects implemented as, say, maps that are easy to modify. < 1277665991 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(modify in the Haskell sense...) < 1277666014 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or implement Actor model < 1277666130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately you can't do things like < 1277666133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo ++ show c#Value ++ bar < 1277666138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the precedence is impossible to do like that < 1277666182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> talker "alise" # Speak "Hello, world!" < 1277666183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, world!", said alise. < 1277666197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> talker "alise" < 1277666197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talker "alise" < 1277666197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> talker "alise" # Name < 1277666197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"alise" < 1277666257 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well ... that was bizarrely easy ... < 1277666276 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: this is why I should make a scripting language that makes everything syntatically convenient. < 1277666286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What was? Mating with an android? < 1277666304 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that was a long time ago. < 1277666304 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash. < 1277666317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bashing an android while mating with it? < 1277666342 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1277666352 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowait, bash fail :P < 1277666358 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn. Well, it built :P < 1277666369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How arousing < 1277666371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1277666466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What bash-related things are you doing? < 1277666490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, isn't substituting for missing full stops at the end of a post a little unnecessary? < 1277666504 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: here's an idea. You could syntatically lift functions into OO land. Similar to $ but with different precedence. < 1277666509 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an operator < 1277666511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/amanda.html <-- A visit to Fermilab caused Amanda's impression of a scientist to change from a smart, thin woman in a lab coat who gets into the Guiness World Book of Records... into something that anyone can be, especially if you're a chubby man with a beard. < 1277666517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that sure improved her image of scientists! < 1277666524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Eh? < 1277666572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL THE BEFORE IMAGES AND DESCRIPTIONS ARE AWESOME AND THE AFTER ONES ARE BORING < 1277666575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO THESE KIDS < 1277666602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, we need to look cool! < 1277666618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what their impressions of computer people are? < 1277666689 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell needs circumfix operators. :) < 1277666692 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then macros < 1277666699 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries at Chrome's lies
< 1277666709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't think geomview is very good for N-E rendering. < 1277666720 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print "Hello, " ++ <> < 1277666744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, that would be weird. < 1277666747 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/s/"Hello, " /"Hello, " $ / < 1277666756 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1277666759 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1277666761 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print < 1277666772 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use that pattern recognition stuff. < 1277666776 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid humans. < 1277666783 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard for an IRC bot to understand such things. < 1277666824 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if by weird you mean awesome, then yes, I agree. < 1277666858 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dialecting looks so much fun, but languages have terrible support for it. < 1277666888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dialecting? < 1277666895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I've had another problem with self. < 1277666897 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's what it sounds like. < 1277666899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1277666900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : counter' n msg < 1277666900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | msg <- Increment = self#Modify 1 < 1277666900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | msg <- Decrement = self#Modify (-1) < 1277666900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : where self = Agent (counter' n) < 1277666906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This even looks like nicer syntax than the pattern matching. < 1277666909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, IO monad? < 1277666912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lets us use self over multiple clauses. < 1277666916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, it's good, right? < 1277666917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha! Fool! < 1277666924 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO isn't meant for Haskell. or perhaps OO isn't meant to be used, maybe this is what Haskell is telling us. < 1277666932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It utilises GADT pattern matching changing the type, and thus you have to use proper pattern matching. < 1277666932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha. < 1277666940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, Haskell just wasn't DESIGNED for OOP :P < 1277666942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can get this working < 1277666945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Objects can't inherit. <-- have you ever heard about prototype based OOP? < 1277666945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a few minor niggles < 1277666955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes. < 1277666956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not inheritance. < 1277666960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not bad at all. < 1277666970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not bad except it can't work for the reasons I stated < 1277666971 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I predict Braces For Haskell < 1277666980 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's give it a better name than that though... < 1277666981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you don't need to use layout in haskell < 1277666981 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277666988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just use {, } and ; < 1277666989 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :( < 1277666999 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps < 1277666999 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor he hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh simpleacro slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg < 1277667001 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUQK < 1277667011 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my acronym generator is gone. :( < 1277667012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sveedish < 1277667020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sveedish asdf < 1277667022 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sveedish hello < 1277667044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!postmodern hello < 1277667044 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1277667060 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!postmodern I am the Queen of France. < 1277667061 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am tted Kennedy Queen of France. < 1277667078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's not inheritance. <-- when you construct a new object based on another it does inherit it in a sense < 1277667110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so in which sense does in not inherit? Presumable there is some vital aspect of your definition of inheritance that I'm missing. < 1277667115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably* < 1277667128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's extension, not inheritance. < 1277667131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard OOP terminology. < 1277667152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm okay. But what exactly makes something inheritance then. < 1277667161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it uses classes for it? < 1277667172 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why is simpleacro gone. < 1277667172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!postmodern the future Asphalt walked out onto the pavementplace, the globe redefined his extrapolatorymusings; why was this "Sinister prescenses are at force..." bothering him? Sinister prescenses are at force ... and it was bothering him ... Asphalt . . . < 1277667173 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tted Kennedy future Asphalt walked out onto tted Kennedy pavementplace, tted Kennedy globe redefined his semiotically extrapolatorymusings; why was semiotically this semiotically "Sinister prescenses are at force..." bothering foucault? Sinister prescenses are at force ... and the semiotic object was semiotically bothering foucault ... Asphalt . . . < 1277667204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tted Kennedy semiotically foucalted. < 1277667210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much < 1277667252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm. It would make perfect sense to call extension "inheritance" though. and the other way around as well come to think of it. < 1277667293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh, I need GADT inheritance here. < 1277667299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm about to introduce typeclasses into the mix. Why god why. < 1277667319 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = do { len <- pick [2..10]; mapM_ putStrLn $ replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'];} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277667343 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = do { len <- pick [2..10]; mapM_ putStrLn $ replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'];} where pick a = System.Random.randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277667347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ I'm a fucking lunatic. < 1277667414 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = do { len <- pick [2..10]; mapM_ putStrLn $ replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'] } where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277667420 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffff < 1277667431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Handler t = forall msg a. (Message t msg) => msg a -> a < 1277667431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Agent t = Agent (Handler t) < 1277667434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ^ WHY GOD WHY < 1277667510 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UP THE POOPER < 1277667538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# LANGUAGE RankNTypes, TypeSynonymInstances, MultiParamTypeClasses, FlexibleContexts, GADTs #-} < 1277667554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, UndecidableInstances, TuringCompleteTypeSystem, UndecidableCompilation, ... < 1277667558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Jesus christ I'm a fucking lunatic. <-- I completely agree! ;P < 1277667570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway what are you doing? < 1277667574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..., SolveDiophantineEquationsInTheTypeSystem, ... < 1277667578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^,/...,/ < 1277667581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OOP Haskell. < 1277667586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ouch < 1277667594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The GOOD parts of OOP. < 1277667598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it's working quite well! < 1277667636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you should do it C++ style. Just because. I mean, if there is that "{} in python" hack then "C++ OOP in haskell" also deserves a place < 1277667638 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = do { len <- pick [2..10]; liftM putStrLn $ replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'] } where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277667639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the world < 1277667659 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t replicateM < 1277667666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did one of those {} in Python hacks! :P < 1277667679 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do { len <- pick [2..10]; liftM putStrLn $ replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'] } where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277667701 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do { len <- pick [2..10]; mapM_ putStrLn $ replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'] } where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277667762 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do { len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z']) } where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277667765 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MNH < 1277667800 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp simpleacro haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do { len <- pick [2..7]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z']) } where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1277667800 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is already an interpreter for simpleacro! < 1277667804 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1277667805 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1277667807 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YARHEVGQPD < 1277667813 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1277667825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277667835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I did one of those {} in Python hacks! :P <-- okay then you should do C++ style templates in haskell. Just because. < 1277667856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have that already, if I understand it correctly. < 1277667866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function :: a -> a < 1277667871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what templates are < 1277667875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeclasses are close < 1277667877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, damn. < 1277667884 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell needs moar macros. < 1277667889 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and circumfix operators. < 1277667929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, we heard you the first time. < 1277667935 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically you could typesafe macros because the type of an unevaluated expression can be considered the same as the evaluated one. < 1277667977 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no < 1277667981 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it wouldn't matter < 1277667989 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because macros would expand at compile-time, and thus be type safe anyways. < 1277668000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Help me debug this >_> < 1277668059 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hmmm, you could make method dispatch a typeclass operation. < 1277668072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: close to what i am doing < 1277668075 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would simplify pattern matching. < 1277668086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Message (t :: *) (msg :: * -> *) < 1277668086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Handler t = forall msg. (Message t msg) => forall a. msg a -> a < 1277668086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Agent t = Agent (Handler t) < 1277668086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infixl 9 # < 1277668086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#) :: (Message t msg) => Agent t -> msg a -> a < 1277668086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agent f # m = f m < 1277668147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Aung San Suu Kyi has actually been the Prime Minister-elect of Burma since 1990. < 1277668343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, this inheritance idea is fucked up. < 1277668511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is Agent? < 1277668522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, bash fails in a really weird and confusing way. < 1277668526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COPPRO! < 1277668531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your country assaulted a Guardian reporter. < 1277668532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, details? < 1277668535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This cannot be forgiven. < 1277668548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which country? < 1277668549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are no longer friends. < 1277668552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Canada. < 1277668565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, huh < 1277668571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Toronto police apparently decided that instead of arresting the rioters, they'd do this to a Guardian reporter: < 1277668571 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I run bash -l, I type 'ls' and hit enter, then it shows ">" like it was waiting for me to finish a string literal. When I press ', it alerts, when I press " it doesn't help. < 1277668575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Two officers held him a third punched him in the stomach. The man collapsed. Then the third officer drove his elbow into the man's back." < 1277668579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wtf < 1277668588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, you know: that's easier. < 1277668602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, 'ls' with or without quotes? < 1277668608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, also what does the -l switch to bash do? < 1277668609 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without < 1277668610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ls < 1277668615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Makes it a login shell. < 1277668640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, bash -l works for me. typing ls and hitting enter works < 1277668654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, bash -l displays my normal prompt though < 1277668661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a coloured thing < 1277668667 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSMIPS, DORKUS < 1277668671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh < 1277668688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I thought this happened on your normal system. Why didn't you say it was JSMIPS < 1277668690 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not claiming that bash is just broken :P < 1277668691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/kevin.html Scientists are slightly less green than beforehand. < 1277668698 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of course it was JSMIPS! :P < 1277668715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how should I know, I thought you were currently out taking photos for zee! < 1277668723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/pat.html XD < 1277668727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1277668739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/andy.html Scientists have pointy heads now < 1277668746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they are more sinister and evil rather than just evil < 1277668752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fermilab must be shut down. < 1277668766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/michael.html When I went to Fermilab, I found out that all scientists lean sideways. < 1277668776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, visit to Fermilab hm. Well the ones before looks like chemists. the ones after look like physicists or compsci < 1277668796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in some cases < 1277668798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/dand.html I found out that not all scientists have horribly mangled arms. < 1277668805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they grin really creepily. < 1277668809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the chemists. < 1277668849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/ashley.html wat < 1277668866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are, in fact, aliens. < 1277668869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/ashlee.html On the other hand, when *I* went to Fermilab I found out that scientists do not lean sideways, as I previously thought. < 1277668886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/kierman.html Scientists actually dislike sienceshirtco.com. < 1277668886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't blame them because they can't draw < 1277668901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/katie.html The one on the right actually contains beer. < 1277668918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1277668920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/dans.html I thought scientists were awesome, but then it turned out they're just boring. < 1277668922 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277668926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actually just boring. < 1277668929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you don't need to spam every page, they are linked internally < 1277668934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me of the Look Around You episode with the test-tube full of teat. < 1277668936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only spamming the funny ones. < 1277668938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/teat/tea/ < 1277668945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/jesse.html SCIENTISTS ARE RADIOACTIVE < 1277668948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freudian slip... < 1277668954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the only one that got more awesome < 1277668956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good on you, jesse < 1277668967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1277668973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, that could also be jesus < 1277668986 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE JESUS < 1277668995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/jeffrey.html He's sticking his middle finger up at the sun. < 1277668995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know scientists who aren't chemists or biologists don't usually look like chemists. < 1277668998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He did not sleep last night. < 1277669001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however in the public image they do < 1277669006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that explains a lot I think < 1277669006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you are being very dim and boring. < 1277669016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, dim? how so? Boring: yes probably < 1277669019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ed.fnal.gov/projects/scientists/james.html Scientists are actually Atlas. < 1277669026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't have capes, or log books. < 1277669034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* AnMaster ponders a matrix based esolang." <<< given a set of matrices it is undecidable whether there's a product of them that evaluates to 0, you can reduce pcp to this problem < 1277669036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just hold the world up while standing on a comic frame. < 1277669046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: undecidable isn't very practical for computing :-D < 1277669068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, undecidable hm? also which one is pcp? < 1277669072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day I will do mathematics in a lab coat. < 1277669080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, :D < 1277669086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a lab coat so bad. < 1277669093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can be bought, you know. < 1277669097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have two morphisms and you try to find a word whose image is the same in both < 1277669097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a completely-white lab filled with computers and awesome sciency-looking machines. < 1277669108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but I want an awesome tailored one to make sure that it's just slightly too big for me < 1277669119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone at my school got a new Casio, and I am now suffering for severe calculator envy. < 1277669125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to drink coke out of a test tube xD < 1277669129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have not seen anyone at university in a lab coat, but the chemistry department is at the other end of the campus < 1277669129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, you have pairs of strings, and you try to find a sequence of these pairs such that both sequences (left-sequence and right-sequence) give you the same string < 1277669144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *used* to have one of the ones that basically had a small CAS in them. < 1277669157 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277669161 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I left it behind at summer, and I was kicked out of the school later that day. < 1277669166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm okay, don't think I heard of that one before < 1277669173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: For being excessively sciencey? < 1277669181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well i mean that implies you can make a tm run, at least in the sense that in any product that evaluates to zero there must've been a run of the tm. i don't know how a language could be made out of this, but surely somehow :) < 1277669186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what is the full name for it? I assume pcp is an abbrev. Since googling it turns up lots of unrelated thins < 1277669188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for upsetting The Man. < 1277669188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things* < 1277669191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pcp theorem < 1277669194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: post correspondence < 1277669195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume < 1277669196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277669199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCP_theorem < 1277669199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck am i saying < 1277669203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :post something < 1277669208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah < 1277669210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe not < 1277669215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed computational complexity would be relevant < 1277669217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah not that pcp < 1277669221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_correspondence_problem < 1277669227 0 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277669228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1277669231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1277669233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1277669242 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that pcp < 1277669248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was correspondence < 1277669265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1277669268 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1277669272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2002, under the influence of PCP, rapper Big Lurch murdered a female acquaintance, and ate parts of her body. < 1277669278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics is bad for you < 1277669281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(two of our profs on that page, isn't that just so cool) < 1277669316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277669327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read "big lunch", that would've fit better < 1277669332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, which ones? < 1277669339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :halava & hirvensalo < 1277669354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hirvensalo does quantum computation mostly < 1277669377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, "Ruohonen" looks more Finnish than "hirvensalo" to me < 1277669384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking that ref list that is < 1277669403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno who ruohonen is < 1277669404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hirvensalo is def. more finnishy < 1277669406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me < 1277669409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but finnish name < 1277669413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277669427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cosmological constant is 7 < 1277669427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually once tried to read that exact paper < 1277669435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emphasis on tried < 1277669440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh? too hard? < 1277669445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly written? < 1277669449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, at least was back then < 1277669452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277669491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The law is this: every odd-numbered Star Trek movie is dreck. Every even-numbered Star Trek movie is terrific. This Law - the subjectivity of movie criticism notwithstanding - held up perfectly for decades." < 1277669492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1277669528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not quite sure I believe that. < 1277669533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/odd < 1277669544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's completely true if you count Galaxy Quest between Insurrection and Nemesis. < 1277669551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What number was the 2009 one? < 1277669556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, all the films up to Nemesis in 2002 work fine even without the obviously sound inclusion of Galaxy Quest. < 1277669568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: by including Galaxy Quest, Nemesis is marked as bad and 2009 is marked as good as it should be. < 1277669572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beforehand, Nemesis was marked as good and 2009 as bad. < 1277669580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, Galaxy Quest is a Star Trek film. < 1277669583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1277669595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't remember galaxy quest? < 1277669598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_Quest < 1277669607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so obvious! < 1277669624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn non-book sci-fi. < 1277669633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about it. < 1277669647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It almost universally sucks. < 1277669686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually read The Culture series, I really should... < 1277669716 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should. < 1277669726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before I spoil all of the endings on you. < 1277669732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, don't do that. < 1277669747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I read them in chronological or publication order? < 1277669756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to skip any of them, so don't suggest that. < 1277669782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a cartoon that teaches topological dynamics to children < 1277669817 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it in something like Consider Phlebas → Use of Weapons → The State of the Art → The Player of Games → Matter → Excession < 1277669823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are ones for history and shit, why not math < 1277669829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I either want to read it in chronological or publication order. :P < 1277669836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really matter, though. < 1277669842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think i heard about some retarded cartoon where numbers tried to build their way up to infinity or something < 1277669843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, failing that, the order in which I can read it and not think "What's that? That hasn't been introduced yet...". < 1277669853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And chronological and publication order are the same in nearly all cases. < 1277669862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not all? < 1277669882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The State of the Art was published before anything else IIRC. < 1277669893 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277669894 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it takes place slightly before Use of Weapons. < 1277669899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Consider Phlebas. < 1277669916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider Phlebas is 1987; The State of the Art, 1991. < 1277669929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TSOTA is a short story collection. < 1277669938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1277669951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, where does Inversions fit in, considering it is not /explicitly/ in the same universe? < 1277669954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the eponymous story was published before CP IIRC> < 1277669968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't know, haven't read it. < 1277669979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider Phelbas was the first. < 1277669982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By Wikipedia. < 1277669987 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Everything* is after CP chronologically. < 1277669991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What eponymous story? One included in The State of the Art? < 1277669996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277670007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, it'd be easier reading Finnegans Wake. < 1277670019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is frequently recommended that you read The Player of Games first, though. < 1277670022 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1277670029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay; why? < 1277670062 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did you hear about the time I chose visual effects over nostalgia? < 1277670064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the State of the Art contains two Culture stories and one Culture novella. < 1277670070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, looks like I was wrong about TSOTA < 1277670072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I read the rest in it, or just the Culture ones? < 1277670075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: yes, you said that a day ago. < 1277670085 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. That's why I asked. < 1277670087 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> < 1277670092 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't think it was a day ago < 1277670093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<<>>> < 1277670095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A day or two. < 1277670101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you're recommended to read TPOG first because CP isn't set in the Culture and doesn't explain things. < 1277670105 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep thinking a week ago < 1277670119 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was yesterday >.> < 1277670125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hi < 1277670141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider Phlebas isn't set in the Culture? < 1277670144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so how is zee going? < 1277670145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1277670159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It follows a mercenary working against them. < 1277670167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it's easy to read it first, if he published it without any context about the Culture being available to anyone... < 1277670196 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Same as it was a couple days ago? :P < 1277670198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1277670211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it first and it was OK. < 1277670219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah < 1277670233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this was primarily because the bookshops conspire against mme. < 1277670235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, should I avoid reading The Algebraist for reasons of sheer confusion? < 1277670247 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am Locutus of Borg. < 1277670261 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it doesn't matter. < 1277670270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universes are completely separate. < 1277670270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you just referenced contemporary pop music in a meeting of classical music fans < 1277670276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: congrats! < 1277670282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, precisely. < 1277670287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, figured out the bug causing bash to mess up that way? < 1277670288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How much stuff can my mind take at once? :P < 1277670290 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: wat < 1277670292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, and did you update the demo yet? < 1277670294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know! < 1277670307 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Haven't even tried. You mean system.html? Not with bash, but with all the speed fixes as of yesterday. < 1277670316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277670320 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hey, i'm listening to a classical concerto right now, btw, it's pretty good < 1277670324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, will try it in a few minutes then < 1277670326 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could install GNU coreutils on it. < 1277670330 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you might want to leave it until later, though. < 1277670331 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rheingau Musik Festival < 1277670333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i mean by referencing star trek < 1277670334 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rheingau < 1277670342 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what about star trek < 1277670349 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you bad mouthing star trek? < 1277670351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're discussing actual sci-fi :P < 1277670354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like star trek a lot < 1277670356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hardly sci-fi < 1277670359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like "tech"-fi < 1277670365 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat are you talking about < 1277670368 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what scifi < 1277670371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly, stop saying wat < 1277670376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secondly, read what everyone is saying < 1277670377 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1277670382 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1277670384 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just came in < 1277670389 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :picked up the keyboard < 1277670390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, "Urgent Socket Condition" ? < 1277670396 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and said hello, I am Locutus of Borg. < 1277670396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why the heck did ls say that < 1277670396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Banks himself calls his books space opera. < 1277670399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[As for what the Culture is: well, keep in mind that although there are < 1277670399 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you gotta be all like < 1277670400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no plot spoilers here it will alter the impact of CONSIDER PHLEBAS < 1277670400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :advocated by the "read-CONSIDER PHLEBAS-first" faction.]] < 1277670404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factions? Oh, jesus christ. < 1277670407 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's a bug I fixed this morning :P < 1277670408 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's way more scientific than anything else. < 1277670410 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh Locutus, we don't like your kind here < 1277670411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU GUYS HAVE FACTIONS ABOUT WHICH ORDER TO READ THE BOOKS IN. < 1277670420 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: waitpid wasn't setting status at all, so if it used status, then it would get a weird result. < 1277670422 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you are so hateful < 1277670427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah I see < 1277670433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is frequently recommended, at least to the extent of "Read < 1277670433 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't accept Locutus of Borg for who he is can you alize < 1277670433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONSIDER PHLEBAS first," because there are low-level spoilers for < 1277670433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONSIDER PHLEBAS in the other books, to the extent that you know more < 1277670433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the Culture than you otherwise would. < 1277670440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wth what will be noticable faster now? < 1277670441 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be hating all the time haven't you < 1277670442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw* < 1277670446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the order in which I read the books. I wasn't terribly < 1277670446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressed by CONSIDER PHLEBAS, and generally recommend the other order < 1277670446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myself. < 1277670449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE < 1277670451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange typo that < 1277670455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, FWIW there aren't many spoilers. < 1277670457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: did consider phlebas "terribly impress" you when you read it first? < 1277670467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is literally only one recurring character. < 1277670474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, cat dir.php is just as slow < 1277670476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought it was very good. < 1277670482 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: vim for example. Depending on your browser, it could be usable. Note that LOAD time is still really slow, but RUN time is fast. And vt100 is no faster. < 1277670483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this is because PLAYER OF GAMES is, in < 1277670483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opinions of those who recommend this order, a better book" ;; I don't care about goodness if I'm taking this undertaking! < 1277670487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the rest are also ver good. < 1277670491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ver/very/ < 1277670497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: One thing, though. < 1277670503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says the publication order is "almost" chronological. < 1277670509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, also: < 1277670512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo foo > bar < 1277670513 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1277670513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat bar < 1277670514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the actual chronological order? Does it involve reading parts of The Player of Games at different times? < 1277670515 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1277670518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, bar is an empty file < 1277670522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly TSOTA, but I'm not completely sure. < 1277670522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't supposed to be! < 1277670525 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might be helping make an art installation < 1277670528 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for zuse's grandson < 1277670531 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about zuse < 1277670534 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i cool or what < 1277670549 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It doesn't report the fact that it's a read-only filesystem properly :P < 1277670553 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not totally sure where Look to Windward fits in, since I haven't read it. < 1277670560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're... adapting the Culture to film. < 1277670560 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admit it alise, i'm cool < 1277670562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that even work? < 1277670563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh, you could have a ramfs in the client < 1277670570 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get wet when you think of me programming the zuse z1 < 1277670571 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of the short stories. < 1277670572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, also it should have said file not found or such < 1277670577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but... < 1277670577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not one of the novels. < 1277670579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, since ls listed a file called bar < 1277670581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1277670583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wouldn't visualising it destroy it? :P < 1277670590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. < 1277670591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, not very read only thus < 1277670596 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Good lord, this is a fucking MIPS simulator in JavaScript, how about you be a LITTLE bit more lenient on the fact that not every syscall is emulated < 1277670598 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filming Excession would be funny. < 1277670610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Here is the thing that you cannot possibly imagine." < 1277670611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since half of the plot takes place in 4 dimensions. < 1277670613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Take a look! < 1277670615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/"/ < 1277670633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least A Gift From the Culture doesn't actually feature the Culture in it. < 1277670665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no offence meant < 1277670674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, but I thought it said when it wasn't supported? < 1277670681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, like it does right at the start < 1277670681 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one big special-effecty scene in it, and it's not hugely groundbreaking. < 1277670683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is "A Gift From the Culture" in TSOTA? < 1277670686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277670693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1277670696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*A Gift of the Culture, also. < 1277670700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the Culture doesn't really feature. < 1277670703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what is the chronological ordering of: < 1277670705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Gift of the Culture < 1277670707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Descendant < 1277670709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The State of the Art? < 1277670714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impossible to tell, I think. < 1277670718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they all take place right after another in some order, or are they intermingled? < 1277670720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Gah! < 1277670729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGOTC could really be anywhere after CP. < 1277670735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, what's the best order to read them in? In the order they appear in TSOTA, after Use of Weapons? < 1277670745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1277670753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well,"? >_< < 1277670755 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although TSOTA itself is a prequel to UOW. < 1277670775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the other Culture short story is set at the time of CP. < 1277670789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... so TSOTA should go after use of weapons so as not to spoil it, okay. < 1277670801 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277670804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Does it contain the minor spoilers from the other books, though? < 1277670809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only continuity is a throwaway remark Sma makes in UOW. < 1277670810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., will I want some Culturey background to read it? < 1277670815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise there's nothing else. < 1277670825 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Depends on the command. < 1277670830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, there isn't really much continuity between books. < 1277670830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. So reading The State of the Art before Use of Weapons would definitely be a bad idea? < 1277670845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It doesn't always say it's unsupported, it just sets errno properly, so the command has to actually check. A lot of the heirloom commands never check errno. < 1277670851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are lots of references to CP, and Matter has a spoiler for Excession. < 1277670859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The State of the Art" is a longish novella, set in Iain M. Banks' < 1277670859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popular 'Culture' universe. It was first published in a slim volume < 1277670859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entitled "The State of the Art," in 1989 by Mark V. Ziesing, an < 1277670859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American small press, ISBN 0-929480-06-6. In 1991, Orbit (a UK < 1277670859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :publisher) brought out a volume also entitled "The State of the Art." < 1277670860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This contains the aforementioned novella, plus seven short stories, one < 1277670862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which ("A Gift from the Culture") is also set in the "Culture" < 1277670864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universe. ISBN 0-356-19669-0. It has had both hardback and paperback < 1277670866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I thought < 1277670868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWO < 1277670870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of them were set in the Culture? < 1277670871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah < 1277670872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Descendant too? < 1277670882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two short stories and the novella. < 1277670883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no one does if they don't expect failure < 1277670885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is it recommended to read the other stories in The State of the Art at the same time, or not? < 1277670898 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well too bad for them then :P < 1277670898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can all be read at once. < 1277670906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I mean, some things are unlikely to fail. close() is one that might but most people expect won't, just as an example < 1277670931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you consider the way the Idiran War ends a spoiler, read CP first, and read Excession before Matter < 1277670935 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Even if close() does fail, it's usually not a big deal. < 1277670942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, heck man 2 close says "Not checking the return value of close() is a common but nevertheless serious programming error." < 1277670943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: CP will definitely come first. (hurrr alternate interpretations hur hur) < 1277670946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can you extend Gaussian curvature into 3 dimensions? < 1277670953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't read Excession first, and I still thought it was brilliant. < 1277670981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm... "It is quite possible that errors on a previous write(2) operation are first reported at the final close().Not checking the return value when closing the file may lead to silent loss of data. This can especially be observed with NFS and with disk quota." < 1277670996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that general relativity uses (albeit minkowskian) curvature in 4, i should assume so. that doesn't mean i know how, probably tensors like with general relativity. < 1277671006 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also with JSMIPS :P < 1277671008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: My dilemma stated more clearly: http://pastie.org/1020958.txt?key=3y6yazvffvltauzv0dyqcw < 1277671017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah possibly :P < 1277671044 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the program supposed to do in that situation? Try, try, try again? < 1277671069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can't data A Gift of the Culture. < 1277671086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You cannot data it? < 1277671086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't reference any events in other books. < 1277671091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/data/date/ < 1277671095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Descendant? < 1277671113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concurrent with CP. < 1277671119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with no spoilers. < 1277671127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, shouldn't the novella come between The Player of Games and Use of Weapons? < 1277671132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be the publication order. < 1277671142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it would be fun to write two books that contain spoilers for each other < 1277671152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it's spread out. < 1277671156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people would have problems figuring out which one to read first if you publish both at the same time < 1277671158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Eh? < 1277671179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^ (not really helpful though) < 1277671202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TSOTA fits differently into the chronology than to the publication date. < 1277671205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I assume it takes place in time both before and after some other book < 1277671214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what he means with spread out I guess < 1277671216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: fffff < 1277671219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1277671221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What the fuck are you doing to me, Iain M. Banks < 1277671222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a sensible interpretation at least < 1277671231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused now. < 1277671241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd Attachment is concurrent with CP. < 1277671248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ODD ATTACHMENT? < 1277671250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea about Descendant... < 1277671250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NEVER HEARD OF THAT. < 1277671255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE THE FUCK IS THAT < 1277671263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TSOTA. < 1277671270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, I'll get my copy... < 1277671274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dude < 1277671279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd Attachment isn't in the Culture universe < 1277671289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Gift of the Culture and Descendant are < 1277671336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277671343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Descendant is concurrent with CPO. < 1277671344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: then why did you say that >_< < 1277671347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/O// < 1277671351 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I GOT CONFUSED < 1277671366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the WP article is wrong. < 1277671375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? Why? < 1277671383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1277671389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just confusingly laid out. < 1277671408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, where is the State of the Art novella chronologically? Publication-wise, it's in-between The Player of Games and Use of Weapons. < 1277671443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the novella SOTA is before UOW. < 1277671460 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Descendant is at around the same time as CP. < 1277671466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it good to read it in that order, or should I really read UOW right after TPOG? < 1277671476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really doesn't matter. < 1277671480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1277671482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am obsessive about this shit < 1277671485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme an answer :D < 1277671503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read TSOTA after UOW, then. < 1277671507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or before. < 1277671511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is ... two answers. < 1277671514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not helpful. < 1277671520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think I'll read all the state of the art short stories in one go, chronologically; it's only the novella I'm concerned about. < 1277671525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flip a coin < 1277671542 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The novella is chronologically before UOW. < 1277671559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a character who is in both. < 1277671577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are exactly two references to TSOTA in UOW. < 1277671614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might as well read TSOTA first. < 1277671629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't flip coins, I need some shred of reasoning no matter how vague, dammit! :( < 1277671641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so UOW references TSOTA. < 1277671649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TSOTA doesn't spoil anything for UOW? Not necessarily details < 1277671651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, like, the impact < 1277671655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1277671661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The plots are totally separate. < 1277671663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great. < 1277671678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And did you read all the short stories in TSOTA in order, even the irrelevant ones? < 1277671683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277671683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, I'll just read them like that, skipping the novella. < 1277671690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which should work great, right? < 1277671698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since TSOTA is just a compilation that happens to include the previously-published novella. < 1277671705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the books very higglety-piggletyly. < 1277671711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when the short stories were organised, presumably they were organised in a good reading order, with TSOTA chucked in there. < 1277671734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1020971.txt?key=0um6qkke7gm7x9w5xmunba < 1277671735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1277671744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read Look to Windward, so I'm afraid I don't know where it fits in. < 1277671762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably goes where you put it, though. < 1277671764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says that the publication order is almost chronological; I'm going to assume that the only hiccup is with TSOTA. < 1277671789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LTW is a loose sequel to CP, references Excession (so it's definitely after Excession). < 1277671810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matter is set chronologically latest, IIRC. < 1277671812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it goes there. < 1277671815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matter references Excession as well. < 1277671833 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In such a way as to give away a major plot point. < 1277671863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matter is definitely last, I think. < 1277671876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And LTW is definitely after Excession, which provides the ordering: Excession, Inversions, Look to Windward, Matter. < 1277671882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I'm pretty sure you should read Inversions after Excession. < 1277671898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read Inversions either. < 1277671971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inversions is only implicitly in the Culture universe, and is set on a late-Middle Ages Europe-esque planet. < 1277671991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With some aliens, apparently; implied to be from the Culture, I think. < 1277671992 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1277672005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1277672009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just Wikipediaing this. :P < 1277672018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, it was published after Excession and is otherwise irrelevant, so it sounds good. < 1277672031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's very dangerous if you want to avoid spoilers. < 1277672038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1277672046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already know some spoilers, i.e. what the Culture is. < 1277672053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the others seem to have leaked out of my head. < 1277672071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that they name their ships funny things, live very long lives, there's these mind things, etc. < 1277672074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not anything deeper than that. < 1277672080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think it'd be nice to have a more low-key, slower plot like Inversions to take a break after things like Excession. < 1277672085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Inversions is staying there. < 1277672090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1277672215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to come up with a language whose entire interpretation consists of finding some value that satisfies some constraint.
< 1277672220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, < 1277672245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you input integers a, b, and c and it tries to find n such that "a^f(b,n) - c > g(c) + n^a" or something. < 1277672251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this happens to be Turing-complete, somehow. < 1277672262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, if there's no solution it loops forever, otherwise it finds one in finite time. < 1277672263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Clue's like that, but for finding functions < 1277672273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then some sort of output on the process of trying to solve it to do output. < 1277672277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, oklopol's clue < 1277672286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Diophantine equations work like that < 1277672293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but they're undecidable < 1277672302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: they're TC < 1277672312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's undecidable whether there's a solution, just like it's undecidable whether a TC program terminates < 1277672316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277672323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's boring, diophantine equations are too general < 1277672329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, "undecidable" = TC, "uncomputable" = above-TC < 1277672332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the input parameters should be simple, like a matrix (oklopol spurred this idea) or some integers or something < 1277672373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, now that the maths nerds are here, can anyone answer my question on the 3-body problem? < 1277672382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE. < 1277672388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. is it solvable on a Turing machine? < 1277672392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1277672414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's approximated when required. < 1277672425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus implying that the universe doesn't run on a Turing machine? < 1277672438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1277672444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is solvable with, say, brute force or something. < 1277672445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523? < 1277672448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the Universe may also be an approximation < 1277672463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep < 1277672466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, that's Wolfram's theory, and nobody really believes him < 1277672468 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely we'd notice? < 1277672484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wouldn't know without wikipeding
< 1277672497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well it could be /very/ precise < 1277672505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I doubt it, it's rarely possible to tell you're in an approximate universe if you're approximate yourself < 1277672505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, the universe-computer can take as long as it wants for a single planck time < 1277672510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1277672516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we couldn't measure its inaccuracy < 1277672517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd look much the same as quantum uncertainty < 1277672523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because our instruments would have to be accurate enough < 1277672526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they aren't, by definition < 1277672531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Turing machines work, don't they? < 1277672542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a far more deeper inaccuracy than that < 1277672544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, if Newton's laws of gravity are wrong, the actual laws might be computable even if our current approximations aren't < 1277672555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: err, build a Turing machine for me and I'll get back to you on that < 1277672556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: consider memory bits flipping; does that mean finite state machines don't work in this universe? < 1277672558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it just means they're unreliable < 1277672567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have no actually reliable machines or computers in this universe. < 1277672575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so indeed: turing machines don't work. < 1277672579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do finite state automata. < 1277672584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any computer, device or thing. < 1277672594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I love the idea of a universe that uses incredibly high-precision floating point. < 1277672606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This particle has a mass of... ?!?!... NaN." < 1277672611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could explain the Voyager anomaly, I suppose < 1277672613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you make things sufficiently macroscopic and redundant that the probability of an error is miniscule? < 1277672616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This other particle has a mass of NaN too. But when we compare them..." < 1277672620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME MASS!" < 1277672622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OH GOD." < 1277672623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: um that's what we _do_ < 1277672627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/miniscule/minuscule/ < 1277672632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what oerjan said < 1277672647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: miniscule is valid. < 1277672649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so why can't we do that for a universe machine? < 1277672650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that it's sufficiently far away from the Sun (still the main gravitational influence on it) that it's getting rounding errors < 1277672654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, idea: write a lisp macros that makes scheme post-fix instead of prefix < 1277672661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's what it would do < 1277672664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err I meant to highlight alise about this < 1277672664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what we're saying < 1277672665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never mind < 1277672667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but things like the 3-body problem < 1277672669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are /always/ inaccurate < 1277672673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about errors < 1277672675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about unsolvability < 1277672683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: <3 < 1277672686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have (2 3 +) instead of (+ 2 3) and so on < 1277672689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so why can't we try approximating the 3-body problem better than the universe? < 1277672695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... < 1277672698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: however our attempts to continue moore's law are hitting the very problem that we have trouble shrinking circuits more without them becoming too unreliable < 1277672698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no comment < 1277672704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next step after that would presumably be to make it not use () for it < 1277672708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (because if OUR MATTER is approximate we cannot possibly approximate better than our matter) < 1277672710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(duh) < 1277672717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tricky due to varargs < 1277672730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am now enamoured with the idea that we're running on an approximating universe with things like miniscule rounding errors. < 1277672737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't get it... < 1277672742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hey, this means there's an actual smallest real in our universe. Zeilberger is right! < 1277672762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the universe's floating-point epsilon) < 1277672764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smaller reals can be represented, but they can't measure anything? < 1277672771 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can pull the probability of an error down low enough, can't you get arbitrarily close to what the universe does? < 1277672772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1277672785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just like floating point numbers below the epsilon exists, but you can't add them properly < 1277672800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the eps is the smallest number such that eps+1 > 1 < 1277672804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1+eps < 1277672811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps this explains quantum energy levels < 1277672816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1277672823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but never just as close < 1277672824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine that they're denormalised floating-point numbers in some more complicated system than simple binary floats < 1277672832 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1277672834 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY SHIT < 1277672836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why? < 1277672842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because there's always the compounding of errors, since our emulation of an X must necessarily consist of more than one flawed particle < 1277672842 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we've cracked the universe guys < 1277672849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so the error is always more than the universe's native error < 1277672854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: because of this? agreed < 1277672855 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get on the blower to hawking < 1277672857 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1277672859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom, you proved P=NP? < 1277672863 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh no < 1277672870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah not cracked then ;P < 1277672880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, quantum indeterminacy decoheres over large scales, doesn't it? < 1277672891 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've discovered that the universe is based on approximate floating points < 1277672892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whoa... dark matter was introduced to account for some thingy that shouldn't have been if the universe obeyed blah blah < 1277672905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but actually, the answer is that the universe isn't a good enough approximation to obey our physics < 1277672911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: i _hope_ you're being sarcastic < 1277672914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the error in mass or whatever it is is just because it's approximated < 1277672916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could design a computer that isn't affected by particle-level errors. < 1277672923 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i am < 1277672925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: well not necessarily IEEE floating point :-D < 1277672929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: who says the errors are quantum? < 1277672933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: I am now enamoured with the idea that we're running on an approximating universe with things like miniscule rounding errors. <-- that would explain string theory and lots of other strange stuff. They are trying to come up with a theory explaining rounding errors ;) < 1277672935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-body problem: they could be in gravity, for one < 1277672935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1277672937 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how you guessed < 1277672944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OK, but the fact remains. < 1277672950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh my god, strings are like ... the parts of floating points < 1277672951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is genius < 1277672958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it does not < 1277672962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: well it was either that or the sudden onset of crankdom ;D < 1277672966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum stuff may decohere < 1277672967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gravity doesn't < 1277672986 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of the most likely channels to have a sudden onset of crankdom imo < 1277672986 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, leave a computer in the intergalactic void? < 1277672992 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :collectively < 1277672995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, perhaps. I just meant that they are trying to build a "sensible" theory based on observing the rounding errors of the universe. Resulting in nonsense basically. < 1277673010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably nothing can interfere with it, so it's errors will be *very* small. < 1277673030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, however this does not explain why pi doesn't have a finite number of decimals. < 1277673035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: oerjan's already had his :) < 1277673038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because pi isn't real < 1277673042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah good point < 1277673054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just threw a bunch of finite symbols together and came up with this algorithm that produces digits that works in euclidean geometry, an abstract, non-real thing < 1277673060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: space is only locally euclidean anyway < 1277673063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom, "crankdom"? < 1277673066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so euclidean geometry's pi doesn't even apply to the real world. < 1277673069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manifold < 1277673072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats alise -----### DO NOT DOUBT MY GENIUS
< 1277673074 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's word < 1277673076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well true < 1277673077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who says our pi isn't a finite approximation, like video games use?! < 1277673078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1277673093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ancient Chinese thought pi was sqrt(10) < 1277673100 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1277673104 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retards < 1277673110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how close is it? < 1277673111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think their technology or maths was good enough to disprove that < 1277673112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well we don't have perfect circles even. It is built out of atoms and smaller particles < 1277673114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about 3.17 IIRC < 1277673118 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqrt(10) = 3.16227766 < 1277673119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell sqrt 10 < 1277673120 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not awful < 1277673120 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1622776601683795 < 1277673121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ~-0.0206 error < 1277673123 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell pi < 1277673126 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793 < 1277673126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think they could measure that well < 1277673133 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 22/7 < 1277673134 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.142857142857143 < 1277673135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqrt(10) ~= pi + 0.0207 < 1277673144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom, that one is more sensible < 1277673151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have thought that they could have Pythagorased. < 1277673154 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that, sqrt(10) is a horrible approximation < 1277673158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an error of 0.02 isn't /so/ bad < 1277673162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in the "real world"... < 1277673166 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to 22/7 < 1277673167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they know about pythagoras < 1277673178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, he was greek < 1277673179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't know what oyu mean actually < 1277673181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not < 1277673182 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1277673187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could they have pythagorased? < 1277673193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There, fix't. < 1277673199 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fix not uploaded yet. < 1277673200 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1277673201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom, my father used to be convinced that pi was exactly 22/7 < 1277673201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 355/113 < 1277673201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what is? the universe rounding errors? < 1277673202 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1415929203539825 < 1277673209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my favourite pi approximation < 1277673209 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh dear < 1277673213 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty bad < 1277673213 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: echo hi > bar; cat bar < 1277673213 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1277673217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, the ancient Chinese had Pythagoras. < 1277673217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm I suspect this means we are inside some kind of simulation < 1277673223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, fixed how? to error out? < 1277673225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though not under that name. < 1277673227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and what could they have done with it? < 1277673229 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean why to ais523 < 1277673232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, or did you implement unionfs? ;P < 1277673244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not so unlikely, but really, it could just be that the quantumy foamy matter computers that are space's underlying structure are just approximations < 1277673245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you can work out pi armed only with Pythagoras. < 1277673267 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well yeah but nothing direct < 1277673267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider an n-gon < 1277673272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm possibly < 1277673276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about guys who can't tell 3.14 < 1277673281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14 and 3.16 apart < 1277673290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: because it's short and incredibly accurate < 1277673291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can work out the perimeter with the diameter and Pythagoras. < 1277673301 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just fixed the bugs that made it fail to write, as it turns out I already had local files "unioned" on top of remote files :P < 1277673302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not my favourite pi approximation < 1277673305 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277673309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: which one's yours? < 1277673314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't see how < 1277673317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom, he was taught it in school < 1277673322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain plz < 1277673322 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite is !haskell pi < 1277673325 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that one < 1277673330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and that explains why the universe is mostly sensible on an atomic level but quite weird if you go subatomic. Basically we have reached the levels where we can observe the imperfectness in the simulation < 1277673347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, subdivide an n-gon into n isosceles triangles. < 1277673347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes perfect sense! < 1277673358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1277673377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then? < 1277673379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then some trig is needed, I think. < 1277673383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my favourite approximation is (426880*sqrt(10005)) / sum(k=0 -> G_64) ((6*k)! * (13591409 + 545140134*k))/((3*k)! * (k!)^3 * (-640320)^(3*k)) < 1277673386 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhuh. < 1277673392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1277673397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, i believe there's some way. < 1277673398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom, anyway you never explained "crankdom". Or was it " oerjan's word"? < 1277673399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(426880*sqrt(10005)) / sum(k=0 -> G_64) (((6*k)! * (13591409 + 545140134*k))/((3*k)! * (k!)^3 * (-640320)^(3*k))) < 1277673410 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it was oerjan's word < 1277673411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, I ask oerjan to explain crankdom. < 1277673412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using tan, you can get the size of the base of the isosceoles triangle. < 1277673419 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure exactly how he defines it < 1277673421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :increase G_64 for greater accuracy, it's great, you just remember one formula and a bunch of huge numbers! < 1277673424 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiply by n and you have the perimeter. < 1277673424 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i presume just becoming a crank! < 1277673444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom, when there are multiple concurrent conversations, prefixing lines with the person you respond to kind of helps. No offence meant. < 1277673454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By making n really big, you get a good approximation of pi. < 1277673463 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1277673464 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why has walking outside seemed to energize me? < 1277673467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's pretty elegant. < 1277673468 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a plant. < 1277673473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must write that down... < 1277673474 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember if i didn't or if so why i didn't, or what cotnextr it was in < 1277673478 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'l;l try harder next time AnMaster < 1277673504 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt you get a very good approximation, i doubt you get a new digit in polynomial time < 1277673517 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, probably. < 1277673523 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's delightfully simple. < 1277673531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, where is that approximation from? < 1277673543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess that depends on how exactly you do this, you could just jump exponentially with n ofc < 1277673549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's eay < 1277673551 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*easy < 1277673566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the Chudnovsky formula for pi, if you s/G_64/infinity/; then it's actually a definition of pi < 1277673569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than an approximation :P < 1277673579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it converges really fast; 14 digits per term < 1277673584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nice < 1277673591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so having an upper bound of G_64 produces something that's... pi, unless you're /really/ picky < 1277673597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right < 1277673611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G_64*14 correct digits is a /lot/ :P < 1277673621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you could make it A(G_(G_64),G_(G_64)) of course ;P < 1277673625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine that! < 1277673632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it's quicker just to compute G_64 terms :D < 1277673634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(protip: you can't. No one can) < 1277673639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, less exact! < 1277673666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i think i came up with an even bigger number < 1277673673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't wanna scare you < 1277673679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway (6*G_64)! just makes my mind boggle < 1277673682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/036/2/6/2650964e842eee21cbfc40d9feeba53f.png ;; ITT: an xkcd strip is made many times better with the addition of a single panel at the end. < 1277673691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (6*G_64)! = G_64 < 1277673693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to very high precision < 1277673707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the composition of the word "crank" with the suffix "-dom". maybe i should have used "-hood" instead. < 1277673708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: increasing G_64 so that it's anything more than G_64 to anyone but the most pedantic observer in the universe is hard. < 1277673743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i prefer the original < 1277673761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok it's not actually all that better < 1277673764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the original is a bit shitty < 1277673772 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well dunno i liked it < 1277673777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, spirit? come on, it's been on mars for 1944 days and is still being actively used, boo hoo < 1277673785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277673791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying it's a great reference < 1277673797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying it makes sense < 1277673797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voyager is in space, spirit is next door < 1277673814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could easily go and fetch spirit now, in person, if we really wanted to < 1277673819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hah < 1277673821 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277673823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277673830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voyager... not so much < 1277673850 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an xkcd strip that I found inspirational < 1277673856 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, at the time < 1277673868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: it's the composition of the word "crank" with the suffix "-dom". maybe i should have used "-hood" instead. <-- hm that doesn't explain what it means < 1277673876 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1277673888 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are very few good xkcd < 1277673889 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1277673898 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, do you know what a crank is? < 1277673904 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that movie < 1277673904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: incorrect; almost all xkcds before strip, say, 200 are excellent < 1277673910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom, yes some meanings of it < 1277673910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the guy just runs around for 1.5 hours < 1277673912 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEGHAN... < 1277673913 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xkcd.com/267/ < 1277673914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before 300, the majority are great < 1277673920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before 400, the majority are quite good < 1277673924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after 400, shit < 1277673927 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he jsut means somebody who does and says and believes stupid things < 1277673939 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has crazy ideas and defends them to the death sort of thing < 1277673939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom, it is obviously a person cranking a handle ;) < 1277673945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not serious of course) < 1277673946 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1277673949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: you're trying to talk to AnMaster < 1277673951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1277673955 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true < 1277673957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was joking there -_- < 1277673967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I know what a crank is < 1277673969 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the one where everybody was thinking about how everybody else was a sheep < 1277673979 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry anmaster to sound patronising then :\ < 1277673997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best synonym I can think of is crackpot < 1277674008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly the same < 1277674012 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of crackpots < 1277674015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sure it does, if you know what the parts mean < 1277674023 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xkcd.com/610/ < 1277674027 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :610? jesus < 1277674030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but then none of them drowned because their asses were filled with water when the flood came < 1277674036 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crackpot is the same as a crank < 1277674045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't know what the -dom prefix mean as such. is it like in "boredom"? < 1277674065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...my attempt at just a reference, no joke, if that wasn't clear) < 1277674074 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being in a state of < 1277674078 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a suffix anyway < 1277674089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/24/ <-- this is an example of an awesome xkcd strip. < 1277674090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277674090 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the more i see that xkcd the more i like it < 1277674096 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doesn't swedish have the same damn suffix < 1277674105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%x",113); < 1277674106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom, err meant suffix. Just kind of sleepy :P < 1277674110 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :71 < 1277674112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why I typed prefix < 1277674122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes it does? why? < 1277674133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, not the same < 1277674143 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1277674150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread what you said as "doesn't Swedish have damn suffixes" < 1277674153 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it turn into a "meghan..." strip at the bottom < 1277674153 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one almost identical that means the same thing afaik < 1277674183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: that wasn't Megan at the time. < 1277674189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that was the first appearance of that drawing < 1277674214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, can't think of one < 1277674217 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://goatkcd.com/ better xkcd (nws) < 1277674220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it is 27 C in this room < 1277674220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one continuous conversation, mind, just not with one person < 1277674224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not easy to think < 1277674230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1277674232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a nice one: http://xkcd.com/68/ < 1277674236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not terribly intellectual, but amusing. < 1277674244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sjukdom < 1277674265 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bring back the haversine < 1277674268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what oklopol says < 1277674272 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277674286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: i don't think sine have ever used haver. < 1277674304 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like i'm missing a brilliant pun < 1277674305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh right < 1277674309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: you are < 1277674314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, was thinking of "boredom" case specifically < 1277674324 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it :( < 1277674350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the achewood parody: http://xkcd.com/141/ < 1277674354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: TOP SEKRIT LOL < 1277674360 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1277674362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically haver is this irc replacement thing and sine is the network where the people who made it are. < 1277674365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haversine get it LOL LOL < 1277674366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, uttrÃ¥kad is the adjective (bored) but I can't think of a way to turn that into "boredom" < 1277674370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whta's boredom < 1277674375 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what's < 1277674386 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tråkig is something like blahly i know that much < 1277674391 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-t < 1277674396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait i mean +t < 1277674402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah google translate suggests "leda" < 1277674418 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know that one < 1277674420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for boredom < 1277674425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it sounds slightly archaic to me < 1277674426 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah i had no chance < 1277674428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leda I mean < 1277674429 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the explanation < 1277674436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, at least in that sense < 1277674447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, "att leda" as a verb is "to lead" < 1277674457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/123/ is a classic ofc < 1277674469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh and it also suggests tristess < 1277674473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which works as well < 1277674478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: ! i just pinpointed the start of megan < 1277674480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: http://xkcd.com/128/ < 1277674482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well yes i did know the verb < 1277674491 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277674492 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jesus christ < 1277674494 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how awful < 1277674503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, did you know "tristess"? < 1277674512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: thankfully those comics were incredibly rare until around comic 300 to 400 < 1277674542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/122/ <-- ITT: xkcd foreshadows its future portrayal of what counts as a cool girl < 1277674553 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is she anyway < 1277674560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she is megan! < 1277674575 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean who is megan < 1277674580 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a shwllow man!! < 1277674596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is also good: http://xkcd.com/145/ < 1277674598 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Megan is asserted to be fictional. < 1277674603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah ... by randall < 1277674604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-one believes him. < 1277674614 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering 128 < 1277674624 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really think he can say that < 1277674624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think 128 was meant to be joking but definitely a turn for the worse there < 1277674637 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so awful i can't imagine why he'd think it's a good joke < 1277674649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the joke is meant to be in the alt text < 1277674657 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like dinosaur comics < 1277674660 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incredibly formulaic < 1277674661 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1277674665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love dinosaur comics < 1277674674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/136/ ;; huh, that recent shitty one was /not/ the first to include an explicit depiction of a vagina. < 1277674702 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus < 1277674717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1277674725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twice in 136 comics? < 1277674750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: eh? < 1277674775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing. < 1277674779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes no sense. < 1277674816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should start making comics that are just about people talking in definitions < 1277674848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wut < 1277674858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you mean like that game a few days ago? < 1277674863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you didn't read my definition speak < 1277674868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes like that game < 1277674870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, go read logs < 1277674879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, okay that would be fun < 1277674885 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it might be possible to make memory cells in AW action line stuff < 1277674886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i did yeah < 1277674890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i substituted definitions of math terms < 1277674892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277674894 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all i meant < 1277674895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, let's not even start on xkcd's effect on Wikipedia < 1277674896 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would read that < 1277674897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna make a comic but i have no drawing talent :( < 1277674905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, half the fun would be finding out the actual joke by reverse engineering the definitions < 1277674914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's no longer a prerequisite. < 1277674915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277674919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be much harder < 1277674923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't even have any pretentions about being good or anything, I'd just make every comic basically like dinosaur comics but it'd go on for a whole page and the panels would constantly be being broken and tons of tangents where people argue over definitions would happen in parallel < 1277674927 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tailsteak couldn't draw at first < 1277674936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they would just sort of speculate on the nature of the universe while stuff happens < 1277674941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have a joke that's more than just a joke + obfuscation, that the definition substitution had some sort of point < 1277674947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I feel that this last time wikipedia ended up looking silly by the edit war making it into press, thus making it notable < 1277674954 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THe guy who drew Triangle and Robert could never draw < 1277674955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what happened to that hm < 1277674957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1277674961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, huh? < 1277674962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linky? < 1277674974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is Karl Marx --> [picture]. He is not Richard Feynman --> [picture]." "But is he? Truly, I think that--" "--and as I was saying in an alternate dimension, 'Truly, I think that'.---- THE END" < 1277674984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can't end a comic just by saying 'THE END'." < 1277674987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Whyever not?" < 1277674997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: substitute some definitions in and i'm game < 1277675000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean i'm read < 1277675018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, don't remember which comic < 1277675025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xkcd about it < 1277675046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah yes talk page has it: the Malamanteau one < 1277675076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have you ever noticed that when we go on enough tangents the universe ends up splitting to accomodate them?" "That's some serious circle rape, man." "What?" "Nothing. Hey, did you ever hear of a guy who always lied?" "No, but I've heard of Lie groups..." "Now you're the one substituting the wrong definition." "Substituting? Definitions? What? We've been talking about aardvarks..." "I believe your cognitive post-mortem reality is falling apart." "That isn't < 1277675077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what post-mortem means." "Exactly." < 1277675097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, see the talk page of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xkcd the section I mentioned < 1277675100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a bit about it < 1277675179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am thoroughly depressed now < 1277675197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm? why? < 1277675219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people saying that "Malamanteau" deserves an article. < 1277675223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They depress me. < 1277675244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, yes, we all agree it's a good idea you don't make comics < 1277675256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what? that would be AWESOME! < 1277675261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well it does deserve a one sentence mention on the xkcd page < 1277675272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well everyone except _you_, then < 1277675280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that xkcd seems to be gravitating towards SMBC's format. < 1277675298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps they both gravitated towards the same format. < 1277675301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, SMBC? < 1277675319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Super Mario Bros Centered? < 1277675320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal. < 1277675326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, never heard of that < 1277675336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a web comic? < 1277675342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277675343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have you ever died?" "Has [on top: the symbiotic co-creator of the anti-matter universe] [on the bottom: Karl Marx] ever flown?" "Flown, I" "--mean died, to complete your sentence if it were me saying it, not you." "Well, I think you should say 'if it was me', to promote grammar revolution." "Fuck you." "You mean 'fuck yourself', bourgeoisie fucker." < 1277675365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: xkcd is just stealing SMBC's jokes now < 1277675366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly < 1277675367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rare insight into alise's mind. < 1277675376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not really. < 1277675381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: mind bleach, NOW < 1277675394 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fascinating alise < 1277675394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There has been the occasional theft, but not everything. < 1277675430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMBC is still better, though. < 1277675438 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277675449 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it more so than a real whale? < 1277675457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH I had a moment of hopelessness when I noticed the big red button. < 1277675513 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fat people eat accumulates. < 1277675595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haahaha! I have stolen ALL your goat!" "Goat is not its own plural." "Indeed. But you only have one goat." "Then you shouldn't say 'ALL'." [universe splits into 7] [in all 7 universes:] "This is universe [8 - universe it actually is]. Isn't that grand? Hahaha[universes recombine]ahahaha." "You had an 'a' after an 'a' there. It's meant to alternate 'h' and 'a'." "I said an 'h' while all the universes were recombining." < 1277675597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[universes split again] < 1277675610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's a miracle! < 1277675614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[in odd universes:]Hahahaha[in even universes:]Ahahahaha[etc.]" [universes combine] < 1277675622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can't have possibly gotten it right that time." "Quantum, man. Quantum." < 1277675628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your 'a' and 'h' were simultaneously dead and not dead? < 1277675629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly, evil magic. we're not quite sure. < 1277675630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/"/ < 1277675637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Don't collapse my quantum buzz, man." < 1277675817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[next comic] < 1277675883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your quantum bu" "No referencing previous comics." "But referencing our actual universe's nature as a whole is permi" "Yes. Also, I know what you're going to say, so stop say" "same goes for you, buddy. Same goes for y" "don't call me buddy" "No" "Yes" "No" "(bool)0.5" "Your mother was a bool zero one point five." "How dare you. [kills you]" "You can't make things happen just by putting them in brackets. [punches you]" "Ow! I thought you just sai" "I said y < 1277675883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ou couldn't. I can." < 1277676065 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am about to design a very crappy language < 1277676079 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277676083 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will make it far easier to work, albeit inefficiently, in a worse excuse for a language. < 1277676113 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How about I add syscalls to call JS directly, and you implement X using those syscalls X-P < 1277676161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no need to implement X, just a driver for Xserver (not X.org) < 1277676202 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How about I add syscalls to call JS directly, and you implement a driver for Xserver using those syscalls X-P < 1277676258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how about the other way around :| < 1277676275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote some rules for AERM please tell me if you have any question/comment? Also tell me which mahjong rulsets you like, if you know any. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mahjong/anime_evolution/ < 1277676278 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I know more about JSMIPS, so I can add the syscalls easily :P < 1277676319 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1021063 < 1277676323 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to kill me < 1277676331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how can universes recombine? < 1277676341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: by comic logic < 1277676345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: where is Xserver in the xorg tree? < 1277676353 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what do people remember? < 1277676395 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I don't want to kill you! I have other stuff to eat < 1277676408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ...creepy < 1277676483 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want your baby! I already ate. < 1277676501 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: That is good thing because I don't have any baby < 1277676568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a baby! < 1277676578 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No. < 1277676587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If any South Korean citizen tries to visit North Korea crossing the big concrete wall, he'll be killed by the american soldiers. The 'Security Law' in South Korea forbides to any South Korean citizen to talk or read about the North or else he'll be punished with jail or even death penalty. < 1277676592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, fresh ground Sgeo_ < 1277676620 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, huh? < 1277676634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- North Korea's official website < 1277676640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: guessed so :D < 1277676651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Stable. A government with solid security and very stable political system, without corruption. < 1277676651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Full diplomatic relations with most EU members and rest of countries. < 1277676661 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, thoughts on poorly-designed language? < 1277676667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a sales brochure. < 1277676684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Only few people in the world know that Korea is divided by a big concrete wall in the Parallel 38 that was built by the United States of America when the Korean War finished.This wall is hundreds of times bigger than the one that existed in Germany and is separating the Korean families, brothers, parents... the nation is divided because the U.S.A. is dominating the southern part and keeps an army of more than 40.000 soldiers to avoid the union of th < 1277676684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e Korean people. < 1277676704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The unification of Korea, the peace in the peninsula and the meeting of all the families is possible, but the U.S.A. isn't interested on it, and every year with the support of the South Korean Army they display big military maneuvers like the 'Ulji Focus Lens' or 'Team Spirit with the purpose of invading and dominate the North. Only when the american soldiers will leave South Korea and the citizens will recover they sovereignity, a big united Korean na < 1277676704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tion is possible. < 1277676769 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to make a fibonacci counter in this language? < 1277676777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.korea-dpr.com/business/Garment.pdf north korean garments < 1277676789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: where's xserver in xorg tree :| < 1277676794 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have idea invent command-web. A command-web can be included in any HTML document, in its own file, linked to by HTTP headers, or by local overrides. Allowing you to make web applications as command-line programs, including I/O redirection, pipe, and any other stuff usable in command-line programs. < 1277676798 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(getcell1("bit")) < 1277676801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i'm looking in xserver source :P < 1277676803 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should probably be ifcell1 < 1277676806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i wanna do the js though :( < 1277676820 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides cell1s and cell2s, there's not much that can be if'ed on < 1277676833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And make command-web more simplicity and can work without any web-browser installed, no JavaScript required, and make the command-web specification to be simple and easy to implement in many program language, and efficiently. < 1277676834 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277676843 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: What language do you mean? < 1277676844 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277676849 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1021063 < 1277676888 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I saw that, but I don't see the documentation? < 1277676908 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the documentation for now < 1277676916 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still a lot more evil to come < 1277676930 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm going to introduce it to a large community that might very well be thankful < 1277676940 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You would be doing the JS. < 1277676947 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: All I'd be doing is giving an eval syscall. < 1277676958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But that's rubbish! < 1277677015 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how. Seems like the modular solution to me. < 1277677030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what? < 1277677039 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: For X11 in your browser :P < 1277677047 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't I say bit1 and bit2 instead of memcell1 and memcell2 < 1277677052 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH FUCKFUCKFUCK < 1277677061 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, project delayed for quite a while; I have no sockets X-D < 1277677071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even UNIX domain sockets. < 1277677081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your poetry stinks like rotten eggs and fish." "As do your rotten eggs and fish." "So, what's the happenings today?" "What if the universe was really made up of tiny little universes, each constituting a particle in ours? And what if this went down forever, like those famous turtles?" "I don't think the turtles were famous, just the quote..." "Well, you're not famous either." "I never said that. Anyway, what if the universe was--" "hang on, that was my theo < 1277677081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ry." "Yes, indeed it was." "What if the universe was--" "Maybe it could be both our theories?" "Okay." "No, I disagree. I refuse to cooperate. It is mine now. Mine! MWAHAHAHA[goes outside edge of panel and loops around the page]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA--" < 1277677098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not in your libc? < 1277677109 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not at all. Not in libc, not in the kernel, nowhere. < 1277677111 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No sockets. < 1277677136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1277677137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course, it's your kernel. < 1277677149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you using IRC, then? < 1277677154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: JSMIPS. < 1277677159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why not just ... implement POSIX in Javascript? < 1277677168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have the bytecode be Javascript or something. < 1277677176 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That is what I'm doing. But slowly, and only what I need when I need it :P < 1277677185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean, as opposed to having an architecture. < 1277677224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the processor actually control things? < 1277677227 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because C assumes there's pointer-addressable memory, and by the time you've added pointer-addressable memory, you've done 99% of the work of emulating MIPS. < 1277677254 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the question is, do you do the remaining 1% to emulate MIPS, or the massive amount of work to retarget GCC at a platform that isn't a platform? < 1277677288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fair enough. < 1277677308 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIPS really was the easy route :P < 1277677313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's your OS? < 1277677342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSMIPS really ought to be able to do network connections < 1277677350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either with HTML5 sockets, or by bouncing off its own server < 1277677358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML5 sockets would be nice to use. < 1277677376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, and more secure too < 1277677385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't want to make JSMIPS into a (very slow) open proxy for everything... < 1277677421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: again, where is your kernel and libc? < 1277677427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please tell me if the AERM rules are good so far? < 1277677429 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My "OS" is all in JavaScript. The syscall barrier is between JS and MIPS instead of being between different layers. < 1277677436 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/layers/MIPS layers/ < 1277677450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is your JS OS? < 1277677455 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C library is newlib, and the patch for it is in the source repo, which is linked at http://codu.org/projects/jsmips/ < 1277677456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is your libc? < 1277677473 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of it is in said source repo of course :P < 1277677478 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBIAB, shower < 1277677484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, your newlib patch is huge. < 1277677496 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277677510 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277677542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: where is system.html maintained? < 1277677758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In your heart. < 1277677933 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just realized that each read of a memcell is very expensive < 1277677944 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On read, one of two codepaths happen < 1277677951 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One for on, one for off < 1277677984 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To add more, I could chain another memcell to it which is essentially (0 for this set of codepaths, 1 for this other set) < 1277678033 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you call a piece of data that can represent 0, 1, 2, or 3? < 1277678035 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quads? < 1277678063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a memcell? < 1277678075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why can't they be read easily? < 1277678091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, a quit? < 1277678096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quat? < 1277678102 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reappears.
< 1277678131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: My newlib patch is mostly adding newlib/libc/sys/jsmips , which is pretty big, yeah. There's also some garbage because I had to regenerate configure and Makefile.in's for that, so that's kinda bullshit but I had to do it. < 1277678159 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: system.html is just init.html renamed, init.html is generated by the Makefile in the root of the jsmips repo from the sources in init/ and some simple HTML wrapper stuff. < 1277678165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was trying to debug something from the asm, and having problems < 1277678170 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can't be read easily since there is one path of execution per possibility. It stores a bit (or I could make memcells store a quat. Maybe memcell2 is bit and memcell4 is quat). It's a thing I'm thinking of in Active Worlds < 1277678170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find Xserver... < 1277678177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go to look at the source, and find that not only is it in asm, but it has inline machine code < 1277678177 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually built an in-world memcell yet < 1277678189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and inlining machine code in asm is really quite a crazy prospect < 1277678202 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there even a point? < 1277678239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was to put a label in the middle of a statement, it seems < 1277678253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow :D < 1277678265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: quat? < 1277678276 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 0, 1, 2, or 3 < 1277678279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping < 1277678280 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a better name? < 1277678281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quat. < 1277678285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: wut? < 1277678291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: quit < 1277678293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277678300 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure "kum" is there too. < 1277678313 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I don't think I can make quats anyway. < 1277678320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary -> bit, trinary -> trit, quarternary -> quarter -> quartert < 1277678322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: quart < 1277678356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: *quaternary < 1277678359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quaternary, though. < 1277678362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quat then :P < 1277678365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So quat. < 1277678372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they end with -it < 1277678380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why they use the trinary name, not ternary < 1277678382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a quit < 1277678390 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quaterit? < 1277678404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, quatert. < 1277678419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the -i is from the part before the -nary < 1277678420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are all sensible suggestions. < 1277678439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's is technically correct, but unweildy. < 1277678479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but listen < 1277678486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: base 3 is ternary, trinary is the /less common/ na,e < 1277678487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*name < 1277678492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it isn't a tert < 1277678497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's meant to end with -it < 1277678501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly, it's a quit. < 1277678512 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about 5? < 1277678516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technically, latin counting numbers for "n each") < 1277678525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or quarter-imaginary? < 1277678528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, 5 is quit < 1277678529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quinary < 1277678548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 would be set < 1277678570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 8nary < 1277678573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not octal, what's the full name < 1277678579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 each in latin < 1277678581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it :P < 1277678581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be quint, though. < 1277678594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quin? is that the 6 prefix? < 1277678597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :octoni iirc < 1277678602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, seni < 1277678604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1277678607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for 6) < 1277678615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: octonary, then? < 1277678627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277678627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unit, bit, trit, quat, quit, senit, sept, octit. < 1277678638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using senit for six rather than sent < 1277678644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :septeni < 1277678650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but septenit sounds shit. < 1277678670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noni, deceni < 1277678681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unit, bit, trit, quat, quit, senit, septenit, octit, nonit, decenit, < 1277678682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 11? < 1277678720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undecit? < 1277678721 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking I could make memcells easily hold arbitrary sizes, but I was wrong < 1277678725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undecenit? < 1277678739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unit, bit, trit, quat, quit, senit, septenit, octit, nonit, decenit, undecenit < 1277678747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping < 1277678747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://home.comcast.net/~igpl/NXR.html last column < 1277678782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's deni < 1277678867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and noveni, although wikipedia definitely says nonary base < 1277679121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :historical change doesn't always treat latin numbers well. not that the system looks that consistent to begin with < 1277679148 0 :DH____!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com < 1277679213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never got the hang of Latin numbers... < 1277679216 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create animate me . 1 1 0, name a; adone name b < 1277679217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: PONG < 1277679220 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh crap < 1277679241 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To even READ a bit, I need to use sdone, which I was planning for quats < 1277679249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Xserver is in the Xserver tarball. < 1277679263 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm wrong < 1277679264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the joys of modular X. < 1277679292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ,z. < 1277679297 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name name=a b works well, I think < 1277679309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is a crazy question so this is as good a channel to ask as any: does anyone here know how I could find out the exact behaviour of a Pentium II in response to code near the instruction pointer being modified? < 1277679339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is quite annoyed at libX11
< 1277679346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears to require multibyte support. < 1277679354 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reappears.
< 1277679357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1277679393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Uh. This is undefined behavior, so: *check and see* how much that screws with the instruction cache. < 1277679446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't have a Pentium II to test on; and I need the general case, rather than the behaviour in any specific case < 1277679457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping it'd be documented somewhere, but Google isn't helping < 1277679485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Your most *likely* behavior if you don't flush the instruction cache is that it continues executing the old code until that goes out of the instruction cache. < 1277679507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep; and how big is the instruction cache? the documentation I find doesn't even really explain that < 1277679519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Varies from chip to chip. < 1277679521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, did instruction-cache flushing exist back then? I thought it was newer than that < 1277679550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 686 is about where that started being done on x86. < 1277679572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC. < 1277679584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler that's producing the offending code claims to be targeting the 586 < 1277679665 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like quats aren't happening < 1277679687 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I find another way to store data < 1277679711 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see another way to store data, but it takes time for it to read < 1277679736 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All because I can't change the name of an object from a different object < 1277679806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 486 started it, actually. < 1277679812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1277679832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, quite possibly I've indirectly found a bug in DJGPP, in that it's relying on undefined behaviour when it shouldn't be < 1277679867 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea would be that the storage would either emit a signal (so to speak) every so often, or not < 1277679877 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To read, determine if a signal is sent in time < 1277679881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume that DJGPP strives to generate code that'll run on more than just a 386. :) < 1277679903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, the triple for it contains "i586" < 1277679942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be managing the cache right. < 1277679987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to run some DJGPP code on a crazy emulator that has a 900-instruction or so pipeline < 1277680000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it didn't work due to self-modification, now I'm trying to figure out whether the code or the emulator is wrong < 1277680001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... 900-instruction pipeline. < 1277680019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the emulator is wrong. < 1277680026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try running it on a Pentium 4. < 1277680032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it should be changed to match reality, at least < 1277680037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That had something like a 32-instruction pipeline. < 1277680042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to emulate programs that rely on broken behaviour better < 1277680271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277680363 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, added primitives to call JavaScript from C. < 1277680367 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My work here is done. < 1277680392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so where IS xserver < 1277680458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: mind if i have a branch where i just rip out the console? < 1277680467 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free. < 1277680482 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's pretty modular and trivial to remove anyway. < 1277680488 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Register on the site and I can give you push privs. < 1277680530 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can be done with something that, say, has a certain number of states, and changing to one particular state causes code to execute? < 1277680594 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Uh ... since you didn't define "code", I'm gonna go with "everything" < 1277680635 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more, irrelevant for this discussion, stuff to happen. < 1277680679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Uh. Not sure where's a good source; I pulled it out of /usr/portage/distfiles. < 1277680691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In the git repository, xserver is just the regular X.org server. < 1277680692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, wut? < 1277680706 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out that I can't use it < 1277680707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is the regular X.org server. < 1277680740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can see no git repository with Xserver. < 1277680753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it is maintained "as a module". < 1277680789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.x.org/archive/individual/xserver/ < 1277680996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ... the normal X.org server. < 1277680998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking about Xserver. < 1277681041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq < 1277681067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't THINK they've been merged ... < 1277681076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says Xserver (KDrive) is now a module of X.org. < 1277681098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That *is* the normal X.org server. < 1277681105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1277681110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The normal X.org server is derived from XFree86. < 1277681115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get KDrive by configuring with --kdrive < 1277681121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that /replace/ the server? < 1277681122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or add to it? < 1277681130 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: BTW, patches/buildcc.sh will build a complete C compiler, if you didn't notice that ... 's a bit easier than following the README instructions. < 1277681132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see whyTF it's a configuration option. < 1277681145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, so where's the KDrive source? < 1277681156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*In those tarballs*. < 1277681164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I have linked to it*. < 1277681203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the KDrive source is just the X server. It just has much, much less than the normal server. < 1277681217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC, the stuff that KDrive rewrote has become the normal implementation) < 1277681255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know, I know, but surely KDrive has a different driver architecture and stuff? < 1277681280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes: namely, it doesn't have one. < 1277681294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can write your own driver, no? < 1277681296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just has it compiled in. < 1277681301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So where would I look at to see those drivers? < 1277681396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or is it just regular X drivers? < 1277681400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, damn I hope they're easy to write. < 1277681414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277681422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/tree/hw/kdrive ;; this, I wonder < 1277681567 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277681581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I need your help navigating this tree :P < 1277681611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So we can skip a mouse driver for now, a keyboard driver will be easier, I think for X. < 1277681627 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okidoke. < 1277681713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I bet X sends some complex shit to its graphical drivers, since it can be quite high-performance. < 1277681764 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have noooooo idea. < 1277681782 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if adapting the framebuffer driver would be easiest ... not very canvasy though. < 1277681799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/xserver/xserver/hw/kdrive/neomagic/?pathrev=HEAD < 1277681803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old neomagic drive for kdrive < 1277681809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kdrive is a lot smaller and zippier < 1277681811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we should really use it < 1277681827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...yeah, framebuffer will be a lot easier. < 1277681838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit X drivers are complicated. < 1277681841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.linux-fbdev.org/HOWTO/index.html < 1277681843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at that! A howto! < 1277681852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://linuxconsole.sourceforge.net/fbdev/HOWTO/index.html < 1277681855 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably whip up a framebuffer driver on top of JSMIPS+canvas relatively easily *shrugs* < 1277681855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An easier to read version of that howto < 1277681872 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "setting the video mode" part that's barfy. < 1277681902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't we just ignore that? < 1277681918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only support one mode? < 1277681959 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose ... actually, I could just implement a simpler interface for that *shrugs* < 1277681978 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really have device files either, but that's actually not too bad. < 1277682045 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, step one: something resembling device files. < 1277682074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ooh, I want to do that. < 1277682075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds fun. < 1277682078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I do that? < 1277682082 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh, sure. < 1277682085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1277682096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Although it'll only be tonight and then on Friday I can work on it :P < 1277682106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: iirc the /dev/mouse and /dev/keyboard protocols are very simple, aren't they? < 1277682109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's just /dev/fb. < 1277682136 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The implementation of I/O devices is already abstracted, it should be relatively simple, you just need to make a new kind of file in filesystem.js, support it with open(), and maybe add mknod to newlib. < 1277682152 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or just ignore mknod and have them compiled in) < 1277682159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled in, yes. < 1277682182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do they even need to look like devices? < 1277682186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the major,minor stuff. < 1277682194 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why. < 1277682198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1277682198 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just need to be JS prototypes. < 1277682211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall do so. < 1277682217 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason to use that is because then mknod() would work and that's more UNIX *shrugs* < 1277682217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't have to compile anything, will I? I can use your system.html. < 1277682224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, more UNIX but more work :-) < 1277682247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Face it, the only reason I'm doing this is to get Firefox running in Firefox, no matter how slowly it goes. < 1277682300 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually my goal was vim :P < 1277682305 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now that I have that ... Idonno, emacs? < 1277682309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is easy from there. < 1277682312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about X11 emacs? < 1277682315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then Firefox. < 1277682315 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better. < 1277682317 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also gvim < 1277682317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277682323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ... MySQL. < 1277682333 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome running in FIrefox. < 1277682334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OHMYGOD QEMU. < 1277682336 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox running on Chrome. < 1277682337 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1277682340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You've just invented the universal online emulator. < 1277682342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations. < 1277682349 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooo slow :P < 1277682353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: We could make a KQEMU port for speed :P < 1277682358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To run on the ... kernel ... of JavaScript. < 1277682379 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1277682398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: We're talking this Web OS thing a little too literally, methinks :P < 1277682403 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maaaaybe < 1277682413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're building Web 4.0. At least, we'll be on to Web 4.0 before this thing is even vaguely speedy. < 1277682419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the Java applet x86 emulator is faster. < 1277682469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Huh. Xephyr is KDrive. < 1277682524 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That helps us none. < 1277682529 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowait, does it? < 1277682533 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it does. < 1277682590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't. < 1277682592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just remarking. < 1277682604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If I implement /dev/keyboard that'll break the console. < 1277682606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that alright? < 1277682650 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as it can eventually be fixed :P < 1277682657 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And aren't you doing this in a branch anyway? < 1277682676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was just going to check out the hg thing and start working, who gives a fuck about in-repo branches :P < 1277682736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could push back your branch and have it all dandy and usable by people who are not you while still allowing the console to work :P < 1277682766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why would I give YOU my code! < 1277682799 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because hoopla! :P < 1277682802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I follow the crazy lunatic model of software development: don't use revision control, then only release it at all when it's done and perfect. < 1277682833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hoopla! is an improvised comedy show akin to Whose Line Is It Anyway? but with better jokes[...]" So, they ruined Whose Line Is It Anyway?. < 1277682853 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawlhuh? < 1277682865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just googled hoopla :P < 1277682939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The framebuffer driver API seems ridiculously simple. < 1277682956 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet < 1277682972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://linuxconsole.sourceforge.net/fbdev/HOWTO/4.html < 1277682976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is just about video cards and monitors < 1277682997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that seems incomplete. < 1277682999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever. < 1277683014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hg url plz < 1277683022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://codu.org/projects/jsmips/hg/ < 1277683195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so!