< 1277769701 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python can't seem to fork under Cygwin anymore. Yay. < 1277769782 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use windows' python under cygwin :) < 1277769817 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would except for the eggs. < 1277769834 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, there is a dimension along which Python is such a *joke*. < 1277769931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You realise where the name comes from, right? < 1277769999 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The difference is, they were funny. < 1277770005 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1277770046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The eggs thing has the same source. < 1277770049 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it sinful to represent 1s and 0s in a way such that 1s don't need to be maintained by a constant pulse? < 1277770072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spam spam spam spam ham eggs and spam doesn't have too much spam in it, you see. < 1277770254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no. i would like to see the religion that even mentioned it. < 1277770278 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277770301 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277770313 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ye pulse of ye liffe of ye ones < 1277770327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1277770378 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay I fixed it by doing '/bin/rebaseall' from a hand-started-from-command-prompt ash shell < 1277770427 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to be off though. < 1277770451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(circle-finger-thumb salute) Be seeing you. < 1277770454 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1277770719 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277770742 0 :augur!~augur@pool-138-88-63-17.res.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277770848 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lua-5.1: l51_npol.tmp: unexpected end in precompiled chunk < 1277770853 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S WRITING STUFF < 1277770966 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is alise in the can today again < 1277771264 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277771403 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT COMPILES AND RUNS \o/ < 1277771403 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                            | < 1277771403 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                           /< < 1277771408 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to actually make it do something < 1277771446 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277771450 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night. < 1277771467 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: If it compiles and runs, that means it works. < 1277771481 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277771488 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Thank you for joining just to say that ... < 1277771495 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: you forgot "and if it doesn't crash" < 1277771500 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is true, it doesn't crash. < 1277771507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, he's not joining just to say that, he's actually living backwards now < 1277771516 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: I promised to be back soon. < 1277771519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freak time machine accident < 1277771530 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night ehirdiphone < 1277771542 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.deednI :najreo < 1277771558 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: Crashing != running < 1277771560 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1277771564 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277771576 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, ehirdiphone is c'laeT? < 1277771581 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmkay < 1277772009 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277772243 0 :yiyus!1242712427@212.224.65.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277772473 0 :ipatrol!~ipatrol@wikimedia/Ipatrol JOIN :#esoteric < 1277772488 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277772539 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on an idea called OS complete < 1277772589 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say a program that can emulate any turing machine running on a given OS < 1277772631 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So filesystem, sockets, shell calls, and pipes < 1277772744 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the process I created a 2D version of brainfuck that containes several rows, traversable with ^ and _ < 1277772807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is cygwin linux hard < 1277772830 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a typing system consisting of Bool, Int, Char, and Base256 (string) < 1277772832 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is the part where i basically give up because it looks like i'll need to spend lots of that thing called TIME on it. < 1277772860 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: yes this 2d bf does sound a bit too complicated < 1277772891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipatrol: how do nesting and direction change interplay < 1277772900 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that you have a 2D array of routines or something like that < 1277772902 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's simple: bf has one array, 2D has more < 1277772911 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one dimension for one program, another for the other < 1277772916 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and basically every entry has < 1277772923 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ^ goes up an array, _ goes down < 1277772932 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using an array pointer < 1277772935 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre_exec prog_a_op prog_b_op post_exec < 1277772937 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so think of < 1277772964 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[0],[0,5,8],[5,7,0]] < 1277772982 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A two dimensional array < 1277773007 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1277773011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the memory is 2d < 1277773027 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably need to use coroutines for this... < 1277773032 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277773043 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is something Lua gives < 1277773048 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int bfarray[size][size] = {{0}} < 1277773049 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while i'm trying to make it in python < 1277773063 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm using pythom < 1277773065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipatrol: that doesn't answer my question < 1277773066 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1277773081 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes, the memory is two-D < 1277773083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1277773105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipatrol: i detect a haskellite, you know String = [Char] and Char is not 256 values, right? < 1277773116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using python < 1277773122 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said base256 < 1277773126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho < 1277773130 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use baseconv on pypi < 1277773152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's the same type names in python? < 1277773164 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly < 1277773190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python doesn't have chars < 1277773194 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 = None, 0 = False, above that is True < 1277773198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the names are lowercase < 1277773205 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: chr(value) < 1277773208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its typesystem is all runtime. < 1277773214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a string < 1277773222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah but talking about names < 1277773227 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan C: let's go back to Lua! < 1277773239 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, Python is the interpreter's langiage < 1277773249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1277773255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipatrol: you say the weirdest things :P < 1277773268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh python _is_ lowercase? < 1277773278 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1277773286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what? < 1277773287 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is both < 1277773298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean for a language to be lowercase < 1277773307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipatrol: your type names confused me because Bool, Int and Char are haskell types, including the capitalization < 1277773320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: *python's type names are < 1277773342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i couldn't have deduced you meant that < 1277773354 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I use classes to emulate that < 1277773373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Base256 could easily be one, but String is based on Char which is not base 256 < 1277773391 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipatrol: couldn't you let python emulate them with its own types? < 1277773396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is Bytestring though) < 1277773408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er maybe ByteString < 1277773416 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You can call them Fuck Damn and Hell for all I care! < 1277773421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer python's way of not having characters at all, just strings < 1277773427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how math does it < 1277773429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1277773435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipatrol: i just thought you were using haskell, is all < 1277773444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, at least occasionally < 1277773450 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: char is len(str) == 1 < 1277773462 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WTF's haskell? < 1277773476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have an element of the alphabet then it's a symbol, but with regexps you tend to do what python does < 1277773482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipatrol: a programming language that is quite popular in this channel < 1277773483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipatrol: lol you definitely say the weirdest things < 1277773489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ < 1277773497 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipatrol: no < 1277773500 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better if I show you < 1277773520 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll understand then < 1277773524 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: TCP FIN < 1277773525 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can think like that, but it doesn't really make sense that if you have a set of strings, some of them just happen to be chars instead when the length is 1 < 1277773526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipatrol: very unusual in many ways < 1277773535 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1277773539 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean just IMO < 1277773569 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277773584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now expects oklopol to say "_I_ would have banned him already" ;D < 1277773673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-=) < 1277773702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get what he meant he was showing < 1277773769 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i understand the quit but i don't understand the showing < 1277773770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope he didn't think we have anything against python. it may very well be even more popular than haskell here < 1277773785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python!" < 1277773790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-" < 1277773962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait math has just strings no characters? i'm not sure that's accurate. < 1277774001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not < 1277774002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather say math has rampant implicit type casts, which work from a set to its free monoid among other things < 1277774006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277774013 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant < 1277774022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did elaborate on this a bit < 1277774036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277774040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nearly as clearly as you < 1277774051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should learn to read to the bottom before responding. nah. < 1277774100 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes there definitely are symbols, but i mean say in combinatorics on words, i just can't imagine how it could ever be useful < 1277774110 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277774158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything you can do with symbols makes sense with words, one-letter strings just have a few important properties, some of which are shared by for instance unbordered words < 1277774179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well w/e i'm sure we're in an understanding, i'm not sure who i'm talking to < 1277774196 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow immibis's bfjoust programs are REALLY big when you unpack them < 1277774196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should consider going to work maybe < 1277774202 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277774207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis is alive? < 1277774209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hm like if you have a prefix-free set of words, you can easily pretend _they_ are symbols instead < 1277774211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does he flood nowadays? < 1277774225 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a bfjoust program with the {} things in them? < 1277774244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or suffix-free < 1277774324 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, at least it would make *sense*, i'm trying to find some sort of example < 1277774447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly i just meant that you say things like u=aw where |a|=1, instead of ever using a variable of type symbol < 1277774467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i misparsed "variable of type symbol" a second after writing it < 1277774521 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277774541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also many times i think i've seen a case of something being proven for binary, and then a trivial reduction from the general case with the morphism a_n --> 0^n 1, so in that case i guess it would be clear that a prefix set will behave like its unique inverse image < 1277774542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sometimes you use capital letters for words that aren't symbols, i think < 1277774549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in cow < 1277774552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277774560 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in the small amount of literature i've read < 1277774562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like metasyntactic variables, really < 1277774568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cow? < 1277774576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capitals are for languages < 1277774582 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatorics o[nf] words < 1277774606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i may be thinking of logic < 1277774614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also uses words < 1277774636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know anything about logic < 1277774649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i did, apparently tiles are important in logic < 1277774675 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether a tilesets admits a periodic tiling is the same as whether there's a finite model for some type of logic afaiu < 1277774678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277774690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afair, i don't know what logic, and what kind of correspondence < 1277774697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't seen any logic with tiles < 1277774699 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's where the problem comes from, wang was a logician < 1277774711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there's no logic to them < 1277774718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's sort of a mutual reduction thing then probably, like with NP-complete problems < 1277774790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe. < 1277774809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1277774809 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling program 1 (19417 bytes) - wow, doesn't actually compile yet but oh boy this is slow. < 1277774830 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm planning on reading about this, maybe i can tell you then < 1277774844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i do have tons of other stuff to read first < 1277774883 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much faster when i use file i/o < 1277774929 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes a while to load though < 1277774943 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not that bad actually < 1277776309 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277776738 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh crap i' < 1277776746 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m not getting the same results for both ways < 1277776799 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple >[-]+[->[-]+] < 1277776809 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for GreaseMonkey_simple: 3.5 < 1277776889 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple (>)*15[-]+[->[-]+] < 1277776896 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for GreaseMonkey_simple: 1.7 < 1277776913 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple (>)*10[-]+[->[-]+] < 1277776921 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for GreaseMonkey_simple: 3.5 < 1277777124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple (>)*10[-]+[->[-]+]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ < 1277777132 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for oklopol_simple: 3.5 < 1277777135 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend of mine is saying his MSN account was frozen by a bot. < 1277777139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple (>)*10[-]+[->[-]+++++] < 1277777147 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for oklopol_simple: 3.8 < 1277777151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple (>)*25[-]+[->[-]+++++] < 1277777152 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A google search suggests that, if it weren't for that, and I was looking for information, it's made-up BS < 1277777158 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for oklopol_simple: 0.0 < 1277777162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple (>)*8[-]+[->[-]+++++] < 1277777170 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for oklopol_simple: 4.9 < 1277777176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple (>)*3[-]+[->[-]+++++](>)*50 < 1277777177 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Get MSN Freezer bots here!" "Send me money, and I'll freeze someone's account!" < 1277777183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn i'm good at this game! < 1277777185 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for oklopol_simple: 5.2 < 1277777195 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, anyone know how they work, and how to reverse it? < 1277777201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple [->]+[->[-]+++++](>)*50 < 1277777209 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for oklopol_simple: 5.8 < 1277777218 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple [->][->]+[->[-]+++++](>)*50 < 1277777228 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for oklopol_simple: 7.5 < 1277777231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277777247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple [->][->][<-][<-] < 1277777256 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for oklopol_simple: 4.1 < 1277777258 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They work actually, it works by signing into their account multiple times (or attempting to) with random passwords so eventually their login won't work (freezes)." < 1277777266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what was this game again < 1277777544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does bfjoust work again? < 1277777852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: look at the wiki < 1277777867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy < 1277777885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. SO AM I. < 1277777923 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1277777932 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facebook said there was unusual activity on my account < 1277777978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess this is a good time for us that have neither MSN nor facebook accounts, then. < 1277777994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^5 oerjan < 1277777994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1277778095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\|||| < 1277778368 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what it might be? It might have been Meeb.. no, it wouldn't be Meebo < 1277779377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:New_British_Coinage_2008.jpg Oh my goodness those are awesome coin designs. < 1277779645 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but they'll look stupid when they're not arranged like that ;) < 1277779701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly British people should keep their coins mounted. < 1277779705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CLEARLY*. < 1277780283 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Google calendar, you're not going to find Second Life on any map < 1277780398 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank GOD < 1277780579 0 :Oranjer1!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-1-146.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277780770 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1277780815 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Oranjer < 1277781001 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a club for a rezday party. < 1277781012 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lag is horrendous < 1277781016 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a new computer < 1277781236 0 :Oranjer1!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-1-146.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277781360 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277781501 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277781652 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277781957 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1277782053 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... TC games like enigma allow maps that are solvable by construction and one can fairly easily show that they are possible from level script, but are still practically impossible to solve, even with access to level script... < 1277782078 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Oranjer < 1277782168 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277782201 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, map that can be shown to be solvable with solution of practical length, but still is practically impossible. < 1277782243 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277782321 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the level would be completely deterministic, with nothing random. < 1277783062 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-202-220.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277783792 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1277784426 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of a sudden, I'm making out with rezday girl. "I didn't touch a thing" "Yeah right lol" < 1277784938 0 :Oranjer1!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-1-146.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277784961 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1277785029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277786090 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277786812 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1277786816 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1277786864 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever since, as a kid, I saw that forms could be submitted to emails, until just about now, I thought that submitting forms to email were magical. Easy way to take care of data without needing to write server code. Didn't realize that an email client would have to open. < 1277787115 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277787190 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277787239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277787435 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277787497 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277787686 0 :donttalknojive!~alex@c-71-58-74-132.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277787885 0 :donttalknojive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1277787940 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277788071 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1277789569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277789676 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277790472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1277790744 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277791191 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277791750 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the unix number generating utility again? < 1277791774 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right, seq < 1277791831 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 wget + seq < 1277791976 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading porn? < 1277792012 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speedruns < 1277792028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers using zsh < 1277792039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much nicer syntax for sequences. < 1277792160 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speedruns of what? < 1277792179 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Porn? < 1277792198 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :games < 1277792257 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What games? < 1277792261 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1277792594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277792731 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277792775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277793355 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/cjuxf/scientist_in_a_sense_im_a_born_killer/c0t3n1n how many comment karma points do you think i'll get for this < 1277793841 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none < 1277793851 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@91-115-218-143.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1277793885 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1277793887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you < 1277793892 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU SO MUCH < 1277793895 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away crying < 1277793936 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1277794871 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After watching lots of tool-assisted speedruns, ordinary non-TAS speedruns seem sloppy. :-) < 1277794896 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that < 1277794910 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TASes are silly < 1277795568 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1277796236 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: lrn2curl < 1277796916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: why would I bother? < 1277796922 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waste of time < 1277796936 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you want to use the right tool for the job? < 1277797237 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because wget isn't? < 1277797317 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you're using seq < 1277797332 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curl foo.com/[0-15] < 1277797353 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, for i in `seq 0 15`; do wget foo.com/$i; done? < 1277797507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277797577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to remember a messy "-o '#1'" in the curl command to get that stuff into separate files; the wget version writes to files by default. < 1277797583 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277797614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess it's still simpler, but anyhow.) < 1277798399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1277798400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1277798759 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: per Unix philosophy, the latter is correct < 1277798955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have written it as "seq 0 15 | xargs -i wget foo.com/{}" just to get one more process in the mix. (Perhaps one could add a couple of cats in the middle of the pipe too.) < 1277798998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pipelines: it's what's for dinner. < 1277799515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you know that -i is deprecated? < 1277799681 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277799849 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1277799879 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2n1s < 1277799947 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277799961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, you're meant to do -I with a specified string. I did not know that. < 1277799980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: [2010-06-28 14:30:09] Tweeted: About NetHack: of it in tins... "need we wait until morning then?" "how perceptive of you to notice a mimic in an antique shop." (fungot) < 1277799980 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's because you're a wannabe windows user scum with jelly for brains." < 1277799988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How polite that bot is. < 1277799998 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1277800010 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1277800010 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1277800013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I suppose you have all the xargs options memorized then, huh? < 1277800013 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe that explains my problems... i hope < 1277800372 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277800557 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wannabe Windows user? < 1277800605 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who'd want to use Windows? < 1277800619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Someone with jelly for brains, perhaps? < 1277800631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION oozes towards fizzie  < 1277801170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is in reality a gelatinous cube? < 1277801209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well up to a constant multiple (of viscosity) anyway < 1277801232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := O(gelatinous cube) < 1277801252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with a shape of a 10-foot cube anyhow? < 1277801271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_maybe_ a tiny bit of O() there too < 1277801334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that classical "assume a spherical cow" joke. < 1277801357 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a cylinder would be a better approximation < 1277801399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i may still have some years left until sphericality < 1277801485 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-215.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277802121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277802127 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@173-129-76-222.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277802500 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277803637 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1277805790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1277808774 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kongregate.com/games/richthepanda/scent-trail-bot < 1277809381 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@91-115-211-212.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1277809439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Programming games are the nicest of them all. < 1277809598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one was nice at any rate < 1277809819 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277810652 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277811177 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277811466 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277812235 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277813664 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277816477 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277817244 0 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1277817952 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@comm700-a1001-dhcp102.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1277820169 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277820495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1277820496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungot: I suppose you have all the xargs options memorized then, huh? < 1277820496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: maybe that explains my problems... i hope < 1277820496 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: advice for jonphilpott stops messaging, call 911. and it's good for scientists and 3 year olds? < 1277820497 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hmm i need signed fractions... okie, let me grab the source from the files or the html to run them all < 1277820497 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if that helps, please ask if you could < 1277820497 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277820550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Is everything okay? You're being strangely coherent today. < 1277820551 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yup ill read it over reading week. < 1277820565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277820853 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277823263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay fungot < 1277823264 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stuff like that < 1277823338 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277823644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277823806 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277824046 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277825543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, funny thing when cross compiling: compiling newlib fails in configure with gcc not being able to create executables. Looking at config.log it fails due to not finding -lc < 1277825564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that was after I manually compiled crt0.o (provided by libc normally) < 1277825583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue seems to be newlib doesn't realise it is cross compiling. Somehow < 1277826545 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277826573 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277826650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scentbot is a bit tedious < 1277826918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's that < 1277826990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It felt a bit too clicky to me, but didn't really try it out much. < 1277827029 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can type the whole thing if you press esc < 1277827049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably won't like syntax errors much though < 1277827058 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only used it to move stuff around and copy-paste < 1277827121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1277827137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't say "press esc", it said "press these buttons here" < 1277827148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant for saving/loading solutions < 1277827153 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1277827156 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says it on the left in the level selection screen < 1277827156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does mention esc somewhere, I saw it there. < 1277827179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refuse to believe you, but okay i believe it might be fun in that case < 1277827179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there. < 1277827187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But like said, I found it convenient for not just saving/loading < 1277827188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the bot is really slow < 1277827199 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's a bit annoying < 1277827221 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, it's too fast when I want to see the exact sequence of what happened ;-) < 1277827223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you complete the game < 1277827228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I did them all < 1277827237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything interesting? < 1277827244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess because you linked < 1277827250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that one button there do, the one near the start/stop one? < 1277827250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it fun enough < 1277827271 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says in the manual... I think it was about toggling some transparency thing < 1277827292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. Transparencies were indeed mentioned. < 1277827378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transparency is just a fancy word for see-through < 1277827402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277827694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See-through is just a fancy name that they'll probably invent after see-sharp has gone stale. < 1277827711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with C#? < 1277827723 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going stale < 1277827736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd better eat it fast. < 1277827785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's it going stale? < 1277827879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything does, sooner or later. The seriousness level is not terribly high at the moment, I was just responding to oklopol's comment. < 1277827943 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The delegates (esp. how you can combine them with +/+= and how they keep those invocation lists inside them) feel a bit awkwardly hacky to me (but maybe that's just me), if you want one less frivolous thing. < 1277828316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'm going to try to switch to x64 again. < 1277829871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Donald Knuth is making an "earthshaking" announcement today. < 1277829913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what is it? < 1277829922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, any clues as to its nature? < 1277829945 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edsger Dijkstra is actually still alive, and in hiding. In Jamaica. < 1277829954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Knuth. And at a TeX conference. < 1277829982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX has never worked all along? < 1277829995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAoCP finished? < 1277830022 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1277830032 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First the Forth Bridge, now this? < 1277830053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will we use when we need to make an analogy for a task that will never end? < 1277830106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duke Nukem Forever. < 1277830142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ended < 1277830222 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly the end times are nigh. < 1277830264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, GNU HURD. < 1277830406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it finishes, we're all doomed. < 1277830452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've released. < 1277830457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last in '98, but still. < 1277830509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was totally unusable for practical purposes? < 1277830521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/?/./ < 1277830536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *really* need to stop doing that. < 1277830646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Effectively* useless. < 1277830652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does in fact *run*. < 1277830671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes it useless, by the way? < 1277830682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slow and buggy. < 1277831735 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably has phenomenal driver support < 1277831818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got the Linux 2.2 driver stack. < 1277831966 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277832020 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1277832937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the famous 1 gigabyte partition size limit (I'm not sure if it's still alive, but it was there not long ago). < 1277833796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox has just frozen for no reason, and is devouring memory. < 1277834472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.6.6? < 1277834534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1277834547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, 3.6.3. < 1277834858 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1277834868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash? < 1277834881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at the time, as far as I know. < 1277834893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it /could/ have been ;-P < 1277834956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot discount the possibility that Flash is conspiring against me, no. < 1277835336 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-204-4.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277837649 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277839140 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277840785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277840889 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277841982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!522ceedd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.44.238.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277842015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am having annoying misgivings about switching to 64-bit. < 1277842664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : scentbot is a bit tedious <-- what is scentbot? google proved unhelpful < 1277843163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The log would be more helpful. < 1277843197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.kongregate.com/games/richthepanda/scent-trail-bot < 1277843209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is "scentbot". < 1277843279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think http://codu.org/projects/trac/microcosm/wiki should answer all questions now? ;P < 1277843322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least several < 1277843524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thanks. < 1277843538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, AnMaster. ThanMaster. < 1277843544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to do that; sorry. < 1277843558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't even very funny... < 1277843585 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. It's a reference to Look Around You. < 1277843598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of that < 1277843612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for anyone wanting serious confusion: http://codu.org/projects/trac/microcosm/wiki/modules < 1277843628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a BBC comedy that spoofed 70s-era educational programmes. < 1277843633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1277843681 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the running gags is to have someone say "Thanks, . Th." < 1277844039 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277844143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why would that ever be fun < 1277844153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. < 1277844159 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One I would like to see spoof of (changing things in it to reflect reality would do) is one darn food propaganda video that they showed in elementary school... < 1277844186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah.. that type of joke < 1277844209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, food propaganda? < 1277844219 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Healthy" food propaganda. < 1277844249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well, what is considered healthy changes from one day to the next < 1277844254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1277844406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing Ubuntu over itself is harder than I thought... < 1277844439 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is single objective reality (but also, person-to-person variance). There's scientific approximation of that (the best currently known). Then there's what's reported/taught, which has been completely distorted (and prone to flip-flopping). < 1277844450 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277844460 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1277844480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i'm his evil twin brother. < 1277844501 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is also called "Ørjan"? < 1277844550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i stole his nick, stupid! < 1277844556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1277844571 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you evil? < 1277844592 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The appearence of flip-flopping is mostly due to reporting... < 1277844611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm probably < 1277844623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to preserve the fundamental balance of the universe, of course. before i destroy it, that is. < 1277844652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But oerjan wasn't *that* good. < 1277844653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for the manic laugh < 1277844657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no contradiction really, nothing is also quite balanced < 1277844667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His complement would just be a bit nasty. < 1277844694 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: re http://codu.org/projects/trac/microcosm/wiki : I always love when the word "any" is in scare quotes. < 1277844700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless he's been building schools in the third world and hasn't told anyone < 1277844701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sure oerjan will be happy to hear that. < 1277844710 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then major landmark studies are not reported because results are not "correct" (nevermind that results depict reality). And extremely bad studies are reported simply because results are "correct". < 1277844754 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For "all" x, there "exists" y, such that y is "greater than" x. < 1277844767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, okay then, can you tell the real oerjan that I want him to read https://codu.org/projects/trac/microcosm/wiki/modules . You however must not look at it. It is secret information for you < 1277844767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why would his evil twin want to destroy the world? < 1277844772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1277844773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah but you are ignoring the fact that destruction is so much _easier_ than protection, thus balance means evil is stronger. for example, have you ever heard of a defence against a nuclear bomb? < 1277844788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hm tell Gregor that :P < 1277844790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not being anywhere near one? < 1277844805 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuclear bomb or nuclear-tipped missile? :-) < 1277844808 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a load of stuff between you and it? < 1277844821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we evil people are _quite_ satisfied with people fleeing, usually. < 1277844839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes I have. being somewhere else sufficiently far away is a good defence < 1277844849 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277844854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I already said that. < 1277844863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, only noticed afterwards < 1277844869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, was logreading at the same time < 1277844881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not when i've taken over the whole world! *MWAHAHAHAHA* < 1277844888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :P < 1277844909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if destruction is easier than protection, surely oerjan's evil twin would be less evil than oerjan is good? < 1277844929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, don't you mean http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDisservice ? < 1277844938 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lo, it turns out "fan service" has a wikipedia entry. < 1277844952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, there is tv tropes always < 1277844960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, but you don't want to click on that unless you are oerjan < 1277844966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or his evil twin < 1277844972 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC client blocks links to tvtropes.org. < 1277844977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, :D < 1277844993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, does it block the whole line? or just the url? < 1277845027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, and does it leave any marker? like or such? < 1277845028 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the URL. It replaces it with a frowny-face. < 1277845042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, heh < 1277845076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: all links, or just those to vaguely risqué pages? < 1277845078 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277845103 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Just thought that: "fantasy has to be believable, reality is not bound by such constraints."... :-) < 1277845105 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: All links. < 1277845106 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun < 1277845118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very odd... < 1277845232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no no, i'm exactly as evil as oerjan is good (up to rounding errors), which is why you are screwed. *MWAHAHAHACKACK CACK CACK* damn cigarettes < 1277845254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So oerjan is basically a saint? < 1277845283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't seem to be getting the point that destruction is easier than protection, here... < 1277845291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so the real oerjan doesn't smoke? < 1277845293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good for him < 1277845297 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smoking and sugar are bad for you... :-> < 1277845316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your logic is impeccable. it will not save you though. < 1277845329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, where is the real oerjan? < 1277845348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tied up in the closet. < 1277845351 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is your plan for world domination? < 1277845363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secret. < 1277845382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: classic mistake #1. If you steal someone's identity, *kill* them. < 1277845439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, don't teach him! < 1277845443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot kill oerjan, because then the universe might act to rebalance itself, and i wouldn't want _that_ would i < 1277845480 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, this redistribution-of-evil thing is harder than it sounds. < 1277845486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Fair point. Are you extremely bad at maths? < 1277845502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just morals. *MWAHAHAHA* < 1277845513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs < 1277845529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not exactly an opposite, then, are you? < 1277845549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said i was his _evil_ twin, not his exact opposite. < 1277845579 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If I guess your real name, do you disappear in a puff of smoke? < 1277845579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, then. Why didn't real Oerjan mention you? < 1277845609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no. < 1277845656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that sound from the closet... < 1277845719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, you aren't very good at this whole villainy thing, are you? < 1277845722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1277845759 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277845768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, are you real oerjan? < 1277845782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real? of course. < 1277845791 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not his evil twin? < 1277845797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what evil twin? < 1277845806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, don't trust him < 1277845820 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't plan to. < 1277845826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't trust myself either, so that may be a good idea < 1277845834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is NAND considered more.. useful, or whatever, than AND... I think I know. With AND, you need NOT to get NAND < 1277845835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, how did he fail to notice that he was tied up in a closet? < 1277845842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, exactly! < 1277845849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: NAND is universal. AND isn't. < 1277845858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tied up? < 1277845874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but why is that, is my question, I think < 1277845899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I guess one could say oerjan has come out of the closest now! XD < 1277845905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if that is what happened < 1277845911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oerjan knows something about that. < 1277845934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post's_lattice and i think that's at least the third time i link to it here < 1277845938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this could be his evil twin, so don't believe a word he says. < 1277845943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S A TRAP! < 1277845967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that lattice summarizes everything about which boolean functions can be expressed with which others) < 1277845970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is... those things? < 1277846035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular NAND generates the top element, while AND generates the one called /\P, far below < 1277846044 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay clones yay < 1277846068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the top element being the set of all boolean functions) < 1277846077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION headaches < 1277846133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: perhaps a more practical thing is that NAND is something you need exactly one transistor to make, so counting in terms of NAND gives you a count of transistors - i think < 1277846154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you allowed to use constants when making a gate universal? < 1277846170 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think not? < 1277846175 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working with Awsistors not Transistors >.> < 1277846181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not in that lattice < 1277846188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, wth is Awsistors? < 1277846201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are* < 1277846213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name for a fundamental.. thingy in AW < 1277846214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well anyway AND doesn't require any, so the points where you apply NOT are sort of the important ones? (this is very vague memory) < 1277846215 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you *can* make a NAND with only one transistor, it'll have crappy electrical properties. < 1277846225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you can build a NAND (or NOR) gate, you can make anything else. < 1277846227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, AW? < 1277846235 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds < 1277846242 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: AND doesn't require any transistors?? < 1277846250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, including a computer? If not, what else do I need to make a computer? < 1277846262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And does NAND prove turing-completeness? < 1277846266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: perhaps a more practical thing is that NAND is something you need exactly one transistor to make, so counting in terms of NAND gives you a count of transistors - i think <-- I thought you needed at least two (or was it 4?) < 1277846270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, memory, probably. < 1277846294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have that < 1277846330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway to give you _part_ of the explanation why AND doesn't generate everything: AND is a monotone function, which means if you change one input from 0 to 1, the output cannot ever change from 1 to 0. and you cannot compose non-monotone functions from monotone ones (it's the class M near the top, so AND doesn't give all of those either, but if you add OR and constants, you get them) < 1277846338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, AND gates are implemented with a NAND + an inverter basically < 1277846370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hm well isn't there _some_ gate that you get just by connecting wires with resistors? maybe OR? < 1277846371 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, you can build addition, subtraction and multiplication gates with NAND < 1277846376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and for all cases I have seen in CMOS it is 4 gates for NAND + 2 for inverter, you could probably get by on half of that in nMOS but it would consume more static power < 1277846378 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think that's true either. That would take 3 transitors, when you only need 2. < 1277846402 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, CMOS might be a diff story from TTL. < 1277846423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I don't know much about how you do TTL. I know CMOS and a tiny bit of nMOS < 1277846436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have circuit diagrams which I drew up in a fit of madness, but they're probably hugely improvable. < 1277846442 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You can make OR with just wires, but it still has crappy electrical properties unless you put diodes on the inputs. < 1277846447 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise the inputs have crosstalk. < 1277846448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, don't TTL use non-MOS gates? < 1277846461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have to worry about crosstalk < 1277846463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277846464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or diodes < 1277846467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transistors* < 1277846470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: however adding constants is certainly _also_ represented as elements in that lattice < 1277846475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, is it the one with bipolar transistors? < 1277846482 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. That's what I think of as a plain "transistor". < 1277846488 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TTL => BJTs. < 1277846504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, to me plain transistor = pMOS or nMOS < 1277846515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, BJT standing for? < 1277846523 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bipolar Junction Transistor < 1277846526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277846556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what use are they nowdays in digital logic? < 1277846563 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pretty much none. < 1277846569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277846590 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are used in analog signal processing. < 1277846621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wha are you actually trying to do at the moment? < 1277846645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, prove turing-completeness. THen, try to figure out how I'd go about designing a computer < 1277846660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, AD -> [processing goes here] -> DA ;P < 1277846665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do universal gates imply TCness? < 1277846666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: NAND gives you all boolean functions of a finite set of bits. that's not quite the same as TC, unless you can use infinitely many gates. < 1277846666 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Transistor types: Bipolars (for Si, that's BJT), junction transistors (for Si, that's JFET) and metal-insulator-semiconductor transistors (for Si, that's MOSFET). < 1277846679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what do you use JFET for? < 1277846691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, also what is Si? < 1277846693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277846694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not SI? < 1277846696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277846698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silicon I guess < 1277846702 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1277846715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: by "infinite" do you mean "unbounded"? < 1277846716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, but why wouldn't it be MOSFET if it isn't Si? < 1277846716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you cannot loop with pure abstract NAND gates either, although if you introduce time delay you can get memory with flip-flops. < 1277846717 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Complexity theorists have "Infinite families of finite boolean functions" for that purpose. They're insane IMO. < 1277846732 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You need analog for front stage before A/D converter. < 1277846733 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can create arbitrary amounts of gates, but it's like adding new hardware < 1277846742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, actual infinite in that case, because how would you add them on the fly? < 1277846745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not "arbitrary". Eventually, there's a limit < 1277846762 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an infinite family of finite boolean functions which solves the Halting problem (because IF's of FBFs don't have to be defined constructively) < 1277846763 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, time delays are easy < 1277846764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, halting. < 1277846793 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, if one builds the corresponding structure from carbon (its possible, in place of oxide layer there's undoped layer), its MISFET. < 1277846831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah < 1277846849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: circuit complexity is cool :) < 1277846859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, assuming infinite feedback, can we be TC? < 1277846863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know _too_ much about it yet < 1277846883 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MESFETs are not related to MOSFETs (thet are like JFETs). MISFETs and MOSFETs are closely related. < 1277846925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well with infinite memory and feedback you have everything needed for a TM, so yes < 1277846935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, aww, why couldn't it be MOSFIT so the carbon one ended up as MISFIT! < 1277846948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, but what does the O and I stand for? < 1277846962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it needs feedback and to have independent memory units? < 1277846985 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277846989 0 :Adrian^L!adrian@phalse.2600.COM JOIN :#esoteric < 1277846994 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oxide < 1277846997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well you _could_ get away from feedback by making it even larger, multiplying gates for each timestep < 1277847002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, and the I? < 1277847002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can have an arbitrarily large but finite memory is it TC? < 1277847008 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Insulator < 1277847019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ah. But the oxide is an insulator isn't it?... < 1277847037 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1277847042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1277847051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, once again the halting problem < 1277847057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, okay what do you use JFET for though? didn't think I saw any answer to that < 1277847062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't* < 1277847071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot know in advance how much memory you need < 1277847085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK. < 1277847099 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: does this suffice? < 1277847103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nothing forbid suspending the system as you build new memory < 1277847115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, like, JIT memory < 1277847119 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: At least discrete op-amp input transistors often are those. But otherwise they are mostly obsoleted by MOSFETs. < 1277847131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wait, you can't have infinite memory. < 1277847131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well you need some gates that support suspension then :D < 1277847137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ah < 1277847163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sure, just gate the clock signal right after the clock generator! < 1277847166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what computational class is arbitrary-but-finite memory? < 1277847184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, problem solved. The flip-flops will stay the same forever, assuming you only use sync logic < 1277847186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no async < 1277847203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, does what suffice? < 1277847223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Bounded Storage Machine? < 1277847237 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's simplest formal language that's not context-sensitive? :-) < 1277847251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the requirements I gave, for TCness. If you can't have infinite or extensible memory, it's a BSM. < 1277847269 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka Finite State Machine < 1277847269 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a^n b^n is not regular, a^n b^n c^n is not context free... < 1277847280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: SPACE(f) where f is an arbitrary function giving how much memory you have? < 1277847283 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "extensible"... < 1277847284 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1277847290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given input size) < 1277847299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you can add arbitrarily more memory during runtime. < 1277847302 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Simplest? a^n b^n is simple and not context sensitive < 1277847319 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do that in real life! < 1277847320 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^1 is even simpler < 1277847333 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not context sensitive meaning exceeds what context sensitive grammars can express. < 1277847337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But.. no < 1277847347 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but still decidable. < 1277847351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the problem here is that you need some restrictions on how to calculate f, because if calculate it with something super-turing itself, you get that the result _can_ solve the halting problem < 1277847376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then it's not TC, in the same way that C isn't TC. i.e. pointlessly. < 1277847441 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least any simple language that's EXPSPACE-complete to recognize would do... < 1277847443 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you emulate a Turing Machine in it? < 1277847448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: well context-sensitive is known to be equivalent to linear space, so take any language that cannot be decided in linear space < 1277847448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't I just announce that I've built a NAND gate, and see what the reaction is < 1277847465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Conglaturations! It's damn near TC! < 1277847484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I first actually need to build the gate, though < 1277847513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: i keep forgetting you already know this stuff :D < 1277847541 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can emulate some Turing Machines on this computer I'm typing on. Most of them I can't, though. < 1277847591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: actually it might be simpler to emulate a universal, but simple TM with a grammar than to try and add restrictions to get it down to EXPSPACE? < 1277847604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you want grammars < 1277847659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a given less-than-turing-complete is easier to _define_, after all < 1277847675 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Language of all first-order statements about real numbers using only addition (no multiplication). < 1277847717 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite as satisfyingly simple as a^n b^n c^n, is it. < 1277847722 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also comparision... < 1277847763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: hm what about simply a^nb^f(n) where f is something awful to calculate? < 1277847797 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B133170.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277847811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what is the in-AW nature of the AWsistor? < 1277847842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in-AW nature"? < 1277847868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What *are* they? < 1277847901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, not in terms of N-Signals, but what they really are in AW? < 1277847914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEs. < 1277847918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/E/e/ < 1277847995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 4 triggers in action lines in AW (actually, there are more, but only 2 are relevant): create, which is what happens when an object becomes visible, activate, which is what to do when clicked, bump, for when bumped, and adone, for when an animation on an object is finished playing < 1277848025 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A(n,n) could do the trick? < 1277848027 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Animations are defined with the animate command, which, among other things, lets you specify a name and an amount of time < 1277848053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wanted, say, an animate on an object that lasts 5 seconds: < 1277848060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create animate me . 1 1 5000 < 1277848068 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the uninitiated... what is "AW"? < 1277848073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The me is a special keyword referring to this object < 1277848080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, Active Worlds, a virtual environment < 1277848085 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Thanks. < 1277848113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The astart command starts an animation < 1277848117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astop stops an animation < 1277848150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create animate me . 1 1 5000, astart; adone say "Hi!", astart next < 1277848163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create name next, animate me . 1 1 5000; adone say "Done!" < 1277848165 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277848191 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277848192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astarts can also specify that the animation loops < 1277848204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that doesn't answer Phantom_Hoover's question yet? < 1277848214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It.. almost does < 1277848216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277848218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits < 1277848222 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand that they're objects. < 1277848253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what else is there to understand? < 1277848262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The animate command can also specify a different object < 1277848272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: the tricky thing here is that it would have to be superlinear to check a^n b^f(n) _even_ though it's longer than f(n). i'm doubtful that A(n,n) qualifies. < 1277848363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a long time to compute compared to n, but not necessarily compared to A(n,n) < 1277848379 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An example of an EXPSPACE-complete problem is the problem of recognizing whether two regular expressions represent different languages, where the expressions are limited to four operators: union, concatenation, the Kleene star (zero or more copies of an expression), and squaring (two copies of an expression)." -- wikipedia < 1277848391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had time to think about it, that might give me ideas. < 1277848416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create sign "On"; activate animate test . 1 1 0; < 1277848430 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create sign "Off"; activate animate test . 1 1 10000000000 < 1277848432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it worth it to create a /home partition? < 1277848445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create name test, sign "Test"; activate astart < 1277848453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1277848467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create name test, sign "Test"; activate astart; adone say "This object was on" < 1277848551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1277848552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: actually that gives a simple solution, just let the language consist of strings of the form RE_1,RE_2 where RE_1 RE_2 are/alternatively aren't representing the same language < 1277848596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, how does this become a gate though? < 1277848606 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, there ya go. < 1277848606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I could answer that, but you quit < 1277848652 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277848662 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, hm? You want an example? I haven't exactly built an example yet < 1277848693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I might say, animate-duration-0 on 0 and duration-large on 1 is a "0", and duration-0 on 1 and large on 0 is a "1" < 1277848696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no, not an example of your gate. Just of an actual transistor < 1277848742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an astart tells it to process (originally thought it would be occasionally false edge, but that's not needed I think) < 1277848767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1277848770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you completely lost me < 1277848774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, did I say I built a transistor yet? Also, from a logical standpoint, what's the difference betweeen a transistor and an AND gate? < 1277848800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, um. quite a bit? < 1277848825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Care to explain? < 1277848828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, a transistor isn't digital < 1277848860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I don't think I need transistors < 1277848860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be a gradual scale from completely closed to completely open < 1277849076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277849154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, sorry; I got tired of the live CD> < 1277849177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LiveCD of what? < 1277849209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit Ubuntu. Long stor.y < 1277849277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, mhm < 1277849293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I use separate /home on lvm2 < 1277849303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would make migrating easier to have separate /home < 1277849321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lvm2 means you can grow partitions as required < 1277849324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, yep. < 1277849326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most space on my disk is unallocated < 1277849423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just occured to me that it would be absurd to, say, make a computer with 4GB of memory < 1277849432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose a viewer didn't HAVE 4gb? < 1277849464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, it's a lot of memory to store a component that stores _1 bit) < 1277849465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ < 1277849471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not possible to change the size of the / partition, is it? < 1277849504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure it is if you put it on lvm < 1277849509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrinking is trickier < 1277849512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on FS < 1277849519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext3. < 1277849522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, many fs, like ext3, xfs and so on can grow on the fly < 1277849528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think ext3 can grow on the fly too < 1277849533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea about shrinking < 1277849537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrinking it is, presumably, black magic. < 1277849543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no fs I know can shrink while mounted < 1277849551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you shouldn't need to shrink though < 1277849561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you make partitions small to begin with < 1277849567 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, my entire disc is partitioned. < 1277849576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, for example I started with 25 GB /home, then I grew it to 50 GB a few weeks ago < 1277849582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I installed Ubuntu, I was young and naïve. < 1277849582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while downloading something < 1277849620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, seems resize2fs can " -M Shrink the filesystem to the minimum size." < 1277849624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not while mounted < 1277849634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no idea if it tried to reallocate stuff on disk for that or not < 1277849652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I boot the live CD, can I use their partition editor to shrink it? < 1277849652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I would use gparted < 1277849666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't know, why not boot and check < 1277849669 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what I was planning. < 1277849678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I tend to use gparted on systemrescuecd < 1277849694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has all the tools required for everything that can be done < 1277849706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't know if the ubuntu livecd have all the tools installed < 1277849718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also, upgrade to ext4 or switch to jfs or such < 1277849725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't stay on ext3 < 1277849730 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do these things, probably. < 1277849750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I'll use qwebirc from the live CD. Bye for now. < 1277849753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well google for how to convert, ext4 wiki at kernel.org is probably a good source < 1277849756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, cya < 1277849759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to sleep shortly < 1277849864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a whole wiki for ext4? < 1277849907 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!522ceedd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.44.238.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277849914 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back. < 1277849939 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the live CD has GParted. < 1277849963 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can shrink my root partition. < 1277849983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I believe there's some sort of preliminary also-shrink online-resizing for btrfs, but you need to be pretty brave to trust that. < 1277850007 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so I presume that I simply shrink sda5, then stick another partition in the freed space? < 1277850033 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277850043 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1277850064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you're using a filesystem-aware shrinking tool, sure. < 1277850088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's GParted shrinking ext3. < 1277850105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds sensible. < 1277850120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Online resizing (including shrinking)" in btrfs-0.10 already back in Jan 15, 2008. < 1277850135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I just leave the partitions taking up all of the disc? < 1277850140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless they've thrown away the feature.) < 1277850277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to get an internship after graduation? < 1277850284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, um. does brtfs support defrag too? < 1277850286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do most internships mandate that you're a student? < 1277850295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes let lvm2 fill the rest < 1277850297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, screw this. < 1277850298 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, there's online defragging in it. < 1277850302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, then you allocate at runtime from it! < 1277850316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my partition table is horrible. < 1277850322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, cool. I selected ext4 because they said "soon" < 1277850338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, mine used to be. lvm2 lives on a physical partition of yours < 1277850339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all < 1277850361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm still waiting < 1277850376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some Windows stuff jammed at the start, then a huge, 120something GB block of Ubuntu's space, then some swap at the end. < 1277850476 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You don't explicitly have to be a student to get an internship, but that's the assumption. < 1277850487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1277850498 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The only case where you'd commonly get one as a non-student is if you're between graduating from one school and enrolling in another. < 1277850511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Heh. Well, btrfs is not in 1.0 yet either, and I don't think they have a real schedule, though I guess they haven't made a backwards-incompatible on-disk-format change in ~1.5 years now. < 1277850533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should hurry up and look for an internship soon then < 1277850715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *finally* let Ubuntu run fsck, then GParted insists on doing it again. < 1277850717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrr. < 1277850739 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1277850786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1277850796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wait for it to become frozen < 1277850802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, meanwhile I use xfs or jfs < 1277850811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jfs can't do online defrag either but it is a good fs still < 1277850827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, might switch to brtfs when it becomes stable if it is good < 1277850872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say it is, but no personal experiences. < 1277850898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just running some boring ext4 filesystems. < 1277850918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that + jfs for me < 1277850929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and xfs < 1277850980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is there a way to defrag lvm volumes? I suspect they are fragmented from growing nowdays. Big chunks (25 GB in a stretch or such) but still < 1277851094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could check the block mappings to see if they are; it's one of the verbosity flags. I'm not sure if fragmentation matters so much there, since the blocks are still pretty large. (Of course I have no clue if complicated mappings cause some problems.) < 1277851160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277851171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, block mappings with lvs? pvs? vgs? < 1277851182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or which tool? < 1277851214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if 7 addressible bytes of memory and 7 instructions are too few for an 8-bit system < 1277851247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lvdisplay --maps < 1277851247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1277851280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would mean I'd need pretty much NO gates to say, determine which piece of hardware in the CPU a particular instruction refers to < 1277851335 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it need to be 8-bit? < 1277851350 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't < 1277851384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why did you say "8-bit"? < 1277851397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seems /home is split < 1277851419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how would one defrag it? < 1277851423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the busses would have.. I don't know < 1277851424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a lot of spare space, you can possibly manually rearrange things with pvmove, though I'm not sure if it bothers to "move" extents from one physical volume to the same. (But if it does, you can tell it to move only the extents of a single LV, and they'd probably end up as a contiguous region after that. < 1277851445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least if you specify --alloc contiguous too. < 1277851450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : array 1 6 0 wz--n- 927,32g 579,32g < 1277851454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I have a lot free < 1277851460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last column is free < 1277851463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from vgs output < 1277851469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one before is total < 1277851474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single split is possibly not very troublesome. < 1277851516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems tha Bisqwit has written some sort of script, http://bisqwit.iki.fi/source/lvm2defrag.html < 1277851561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is "Bisqwit" someone you know of? < 1277851604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not personally, but I know the name; doesn't he do tool-assisted NES speedruns or something like that? < 1277851616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got filesystem corruption when I ran that script. < 1277851618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, he is. < 1277851627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if you had said "kernel developer" I would have trusted it more < 1277851632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay not going to use it then < 1277851644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: All of LVM is userspace. < 1277851650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well okay < 1277851656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "lvm developer"? < 1277851666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would would have made it sound a lot safer < 1277851720 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to generate a commands.sh file to run, so you can make sure it's not doing anything strange. < 1277851722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ugh at php < 1277851744 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's pretty strange language to choose. < 1277851753 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277851768 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What PHP? < 1277851770 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the tataism... < 1277851793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, he's also done the Finnish fan-translation of Chrono Trigger. :p < 1277851805 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Who? < 1277851812 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone! < 1277851813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Bisqwit. < 1277851814 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a tuesday! < 1277851816 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my word! < 1277851823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, okay not something relevant to this program though < 1277851826 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Reminds me of an advert. < 1277851827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus what pikhq said. nah < 1277851833 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Smuggled. < 1277851837 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1277851872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: do you ever, as a result of IRC tab completes, get into the habit of trying to tab-complete your sentences? as if your computer should know what you're trying to say... < 1277851942 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I just think loudly at my computer and it picks it up and writes what I'm thinking. < 1277851959 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277851967 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep trying to tab complete my thoughts < 1277851971 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its really frustrating < 1277851979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an iProduct user! < 1277851982 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like a part of me isnt there < 1277851989 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i was born wrong < 1277851994 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1277852014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i keep trying to tab complete my thoughts <-- never happened to me < 1277852016 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, i'm a pre-op transhuman, but that goes without saying < 1277852024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, pre-op? < 1277852025 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you need to have thoughts first < 1277852026 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooh burn < 1277852028 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you know < 1277852033 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-op. pre-operation. < 1277852048 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the operation that'll implant the cybernetics < 1277852050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277852054 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beep boop < 1277852198 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pre-op transhuman" is an awesome expression :P < 1277852200 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277852585 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: :) < 1277852608 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt hurt that some of my friends, and definitely some of my love interests, are pre-op transboys < 1277852670 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm postop subhuman < 1277852685 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lurve neuron inhibitors < 1277852726 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joking, I'm actually mid-op human. < 1277852768 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the human visualisation system sucks < 1277852780 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :view an image w colour in your head. Sni < 1277852785 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Animate it < 1277852796 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is it? Oops, it disappeared. < 1277852871 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: if you're trying to tab complete your thoughts you know what you Want to think. And thud have already thought it. < 1277852875 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*want < 1277852880 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thus < 1277852898 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: i can animat color images in my head :| < 1277852908 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277852921 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then try and figure out where the picture is < 1277852923 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i mean tab complete the externalization of those thoughts < 1277852925 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crashes < 1277852928 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1277852929 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesnt < 1277852937 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does :P < 1277852940 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can put that picture wherever i want < 1277852944 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does for you maybe < 1277852951 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In front of things??? < 1277852952 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as you said, you're a mid-op subhuman! < 1277852954 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure! < 1277852956 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1277852961 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obscure your computer. < 1277852962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1277852972 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Mid op HUMAN < 1277852978 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry < 1277852982 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or post op SUBHUMAN < 1277852984 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1277853002 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it cant obscure the computer, due to overriding effects from the eyes < 1277853023 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the sound synthesising system sucks. Everything sounds distant. < 1277853030 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me about 750mg of DXM and i can at the very least get full closed eyed visuals < 1277853053 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: But it never seems to be actually there! < 1277853062 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always somehow offcamera. < 1277853063 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not without drugs, usually, no < 1277853070 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1277853072 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its on camera for me, just not < 1277853077 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very salient < 1277853078 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277853086 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats sensible; its very weak compared to the real world < 1277853089 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world is bright and loud < 1277853090 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not is keyword < 1277853095 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: exactly < 1277853102 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flaw in sapiensOS < 1277853102 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesnt mean its off camera! < 1277853107 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just drowned out! < 1277853114 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not a flaw, there, buddy :P < 1277853126 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a bit problematic if you were hallucinating your imagination all the time < 1277853139 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sapiensOS also lacks extension capability eg for virtual reality < 1277853144 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesnt < 1277853148 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: User controlled intensity < 1277853149 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extension is just illegal. < 1277853169 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to break the law to use those mods < 1277853173 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its much like an iPhone < 1277853192 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Drugs don't let me program my own VR where I have 70 heads and 30 lightbulbs for genitals < 1277853199 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277853204 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just spontaneously give me that. < 1277853204 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're taking the wrong drugs then ;) < 1277853218 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a difference :P < 1277853239 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i.e. none :P < 1277853279 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq€ < 1277853284 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq ¥¥¥¥ < 1277853291 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :€$¥• < 1277853323 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Reading my brains source code would be rad < 1277853344 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the unused evolutionary crud eluded < 1277853349 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*elided < 1277853358 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://genome.ucsc.edu/ < 1277853370 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, unused, well. we dont know whats used and what isnt. so. < 1277853379 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even neuron data < 1277853388 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope! < 1277853404 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the machine code for a proprietary computer that creates a similar program to mine < 1277853408 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like to imagine that DNA is sort of like a ZIP file < 1277853415 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in just an unreadable format < 1277853430 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: more like code for a replicator. < 1277853436 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it encodes the means by which you can build the actual stuff < 1277853442 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just a replicator tho, right < 1277853454 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a makefile :P < 1277853465 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its code for how those replicators replicate and interact to form a larger machine < 1277853482 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self organizing transistors < 1277853487 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ie a bigger replicator < 1277853494 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i.e. < 1277853498 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway! < 1277853500 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1277853502 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1277853506 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im off to watch doctor who < 1277853507 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byeee < 1277853516 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh < 1277853521 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just abandon me < 1277853522 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1277853526 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'((( < 1277853526 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh im not abandoning < 1277853528 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277853529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just saying bye < 1277853532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dumping you in a ditch < 1277853533 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1277853540 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1277853565 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: IS DR WHO MORE INTRRESTING THAN ME < 1277853566 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boffo. < 1277853568 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes) < 1277853574 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*INTERESTING < 1277853576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1277853578 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*DOCTOR < 1277853584 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first doctor! < 1277853585 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hi < 1277853588 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr. Who > * < 1277853598 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: *Doctor < 1277853607 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whooooo doctor who < 1277853611 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doctor whooooo < 1277853616 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tardis! < 1277853621 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doctor whoooooooo < 1277853624 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, design a tail-recursive algorithm for swapping out arbitrary elements of a cons tree < 1277853624 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doctor who < 1277853631 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doctor whoooah < 1277853635 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doctor who < 1277853643 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually sorry < 1277853654 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice video for that song, if you get a chance to see it < 1277853662 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :design a tail recursive set of operations which, when used in one sequence or other, lets you swap out an arbitrary element of a cons tree < 1277853663 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not here. < 1277853678 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: No. < 1277853682 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fine < 1277853683 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamer < 1277853687 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1277853714 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I did not make my feeling clear last time: < 1277853741 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1277853768 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ST:TOS => entertaining; ST:TNG => entertaining; ST:DS9 => dull knock-off of B5 (which was also dull); ST:V => borderline unwatchable drivel; ST:V after 7 of 9 => fully unwatchable drivel < 1277853784 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, B5 was awesome < 1277853788 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut your face < 1277853791 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ToS I can't watch. Dunno why. < 1277853801 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS9 is so unimaginably boring. < 1277853808 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNG is fun. < 1277853824 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Mind, VOY was fun. Just not intentionally. < 1277853840 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, moar fan of service lol < 1277853845 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*liek < 1277853858 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1277853859 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TOS < 1277853866 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7/9 < 1277853876 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moar like Fan/Service. < 1277853881 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*liek < 1277853887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like VOY < 1277853894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I haven't watched a lot of it < 1277853906 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard "26 of D" before on tvtropes. < 1277853910 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1277853939 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The great part of voyager is that everyones crazy apart from Dr. Asshole < 1277853964 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm — shock, horror! — making a MY-OS-RELATED COMPROMISE! < 1277853981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is EMH an asshole? < 1277853986 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doctor Who trumps any and all of these a hundredfold, though. TOS, anyway, if you can call it that. < 1277853997 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Watch the earlier episodes. < 1277853998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the actor plays someone who started out as a bit of a prick in the Stargate franchise < 1277854000 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Indeed? < 1277854015 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a gigantic prick to everyone :P And it's awesome. < 1277854034 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Doctor Who isn't really scifi anyway. < 1277854044 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like arbitrary plot device fantasy. < 1277854059 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Indeed; a compromise! < 1277854092 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Do tell, or don't. < 1277854119 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Aye, I'll do. < 1277854147 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just decided to make something slightly more conventional beforehand :P < 1277854164 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, Plan 9 turned up to 11. Plan 11. < 1277854183 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: No smiley exists that adequately conveys my reaction to that. < 1277854200 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drivers are just userspace daemons serving device files from raw hardware devices. < 1277854216 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Good, bad? Horror; shock? < 1277854224 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1277854230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, Gregor, AnMaster, and I are creating the Ultimate Unix. < 1277854233 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pickled beets? < 1277854235 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds bad. < 1277854242 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AnMaster? Hah. < 1277854248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shall be Unix. And in userland. On all OSes. < 1277854250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bwahahah! < 1277854258 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldnt unix his way out of a paper bag. < 1277854261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same ABI. < 1277854268 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That was my idea ... < 1277854298 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wat. < 1277854301 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I shall be one of the dwindling number of anti-Unix luddite holdouts, still thinking about the Lisp machines. We'll see. < 1277854312 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: No. Me too! < 1277854323 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, Plan 9 is unix in my book. < 1277854328 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see, plan 9 took unix and turned it into STUFF. < 1277854334 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small-u unix, but unix still. < 1277854341 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You gotta look closer. < 1277854359 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I too was skeptical. And it's not ideal: but very very good. < 1277854388 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Lisp machines aren't so pure. They used byte based file systems to store stuff. < 1277854408 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even in a pure, abstract way like plan 9. < 1277854433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes, but Plan 9 is the Unix done ideally. < 1277854439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1277854441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nearly. < 1277854468 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Unix < 1277854494 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277854495 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The process nanespaces change EVERYTHING < 1277854507 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ differs from process to process < 1277854513 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a namespace < 1277854515 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277854522 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thinking about" does not mean replicating, but whatever. < 1277854541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, I have managed to interest multiple people here in AW stuff < 1277854549 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The window manager starts it's windows with a namespace where the raw /dev/screen points to the WM < 1277854553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not interest per se, but it's been talked about < 1277854560 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which then blits it to a window. < 1277854566 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's elegant. < 1277854577 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: In Plan 9, how do I, a process, send a message to another process? < 1277854579 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not really. I read. < 1277854625 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You tend to communicate with abstract devices instead. But /dev/prog/ and /proc/N/. < 1277854633 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latter moreso. < 1277854641 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno if I've seen the former. < 1277854660 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But almost universally the interface is abstract and generic. < 1277854693 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*na < 1277854701 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*namespaces < 1277854707 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ancient typo) < 1277854759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1277854807 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway that way that the wm works automatically means you can run any process instead of a wm just fine and also that the WM nests perfectly. < 1277854832 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just splits it's own /dev/screen up for it's children, basically. < 1277854841 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its *its < 1277854842 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277854864 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keyboard mouse device files ofc < 1277854882 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cute trick. < 1277854900 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277854909 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trick? Underlying philosophy. < 1277854931 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only one obviously correct way to manage windows on plan 9; that is it. < 1277854949 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cute underlying philosophy, then. < 1277854960 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try that without per-process namespaces! < 1277855010 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Also, say you are connected to a machine A. < 1277855029 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want to run a machine A program with the graphics on your screen. < 1277855079 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do, basically, connect to your computer from A then "bind /net/mybox/dev/screen /dev/screen". < 1277855112 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run the program; it appears where you ran those commands (using that windows screen device) < 1277855133 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing for kbd and mouse ofc < 1277855146 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277855147 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*You, basically, < 1277855166 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be impressed. < 1277855205 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's X11 forwarding in zero lines of code. Gotta be doing something right. < 1277855309 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm as much an antiunix zealot as yesterday < 1277855330 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always liked plan 9. < 1277855401 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to like Plan 9 but now it irritates me. < 1277855410 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm letting my feelings get in the way, obviously. < 1277855792 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry to be so negative. < 1277855803 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what else to do. < 1277855841 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No real plan to design my own OS. Only pipe dreams, for no purpose, that will never materialize. < 1277855871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, we could just have a module called plan9 alongside the posix one < 1277855876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem < 1277855878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite feasible < 1277855881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1277855886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ^ < 1277855895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, but I assume you implement it :P < 1277855903 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no you couldn't < 1277855910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, um. same API. < 1277855919 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Fail. < 1277855922 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So hard. < 1277855937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, of course you would have to do the process stuff too. But that goes into the API < 1277855949 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rom the Earth perspective, Martian software is just another strange, mutually incompatible doohickey. Welcome aboard! Alas, our mudball is already ornamented with many such curios. They stick quite well." < 1277855952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume we would do some such emulation anyway for posix on win32 < 1277855954 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"From < 1277855959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far from all, but some