< 1277856006 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You just updated... < 1277856026 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't defend Plan 9 strongly, but slapping a POSIX compatibility layer on it doesn't sound appetizing < 1277856041 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: A Yarvin disciple. < 1277856041 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New one. < 1277856048 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Yes I did, but it's not 100% complete, one sec < 1277856051 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...catseye.tc, to complete my utterance. < 1277856065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, um you realise I said we would slap plan9 compat on windows and such < 1277856068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds Inc. > Microsoft < 1277856069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the other way around < 1277856070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1277856071 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: No, just someone who has read that post and mused about it. < 1277856078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope ehirdiphone realise this too < 1277856078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Nock is actually pretty lame :/ < 1277856087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, right? < 1277856088 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a nice esolang < 1277856093 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Nock sucks. Urbit is better. < 1277856098 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I realise. < 1277856112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, and I say it could be done, but I'm not the one to do it < 1277856117 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Urbit approaches a decent idea. Especially the networking. < 1277856139 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I contacted AWI, they were really helpful in .. what they thought was a lost password situation < 1277856142 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Urbit is just an opaque function really, as one of the comments pointed out. Which is not a bad thing. < 1277856148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, oh and we need dynamic linking to pull this off. So you will hate it anyway < 1277856151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1277856161 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here [with an MSN issue], my friend's giving a lot of information to prove that it's really him, and it's "not enough" < 1277856165 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think Yarvin's a bit confused, but he makes some nice analogies and such. < 1277856168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, "what they thought"? < 1277856177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: The basic trick of Microcosm is to just have a seperate ABI running on one's OS. :P < 1277856225 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You're a purposefully-inflammatory troll who has no unique ideas that are not boring and prides himself on purposeful misunderstanding. Just STFU, at least to me. < 1277856238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I didn't actually lose my password, I needed something else < 1277856242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ... what is it with ehirdiphone? < 1277856253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, you are the one trolling here. < 1277856265 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more open about disliking you than the others. < 1277856274 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a thing, I guess. < 1277856296 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The others being a welldefined set of people I won't name.) < 1277856349 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Now the update's complete. Stupid XHTML cleanser stripped out my applet tag the first time. < 1277856366 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I just meant the news post. < 1277856373 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't use java on iPhone... < 1277856377 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to pump out four or five more languages, zzo38-style, and I'll have 60. < 1277856395 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Well, don't worry about it -- it's not exactly earth-shattering. < 1277856408 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh speaking of which, did anyone catch what Knuth announced? < 1277856409 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a calculus ala lambda, pi, object calculus. < 1277856423 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. New TeX update? < 1277856425 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Coroutine calculus. < 1277856425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Not yet. < 1277856433 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's admitting to being mortal? < 1277856443 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You mean pi calculus. < 1277856452 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I thought that was processes. < 1277856464 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Close enough. < 1277856476 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a raised-eyebrow smiley. < 1277856479 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do coroutine calculus then. < 1277856482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can't use java on iPhone... <-- even my old old nokia can use java. Not sure about applets though, but I think it might < 1277856486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: 5:30 Pacific time. Still a couple more hours. < 1277856490 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigma calculus? < 1277856520 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't even give half a shit and you know it. < 1277856522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I need a raised-eyebrow smiley. <-- try ^_^ or such < 1277856527 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was merely stating a fact. < 1277856553 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ looks too much like a pleased Pokemon mumblesomething. < 1277856564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, haha < 1277856568 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to the point, ^_^ looks nothing like a raised eyebrow < 1277856579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what about -_^ < 1277856583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one raised eyebrow < 1277856585 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closer < 1277856604 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should go with o_O < 1277856609 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: So what operations? Coroutine creation, yield(v), next(coro), while x:=next(coro). < 1277856614 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else? < 1277856620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hm possibly < 1277856662 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I thought they'd be like lambdas somehow, but with a "yield" combinator. Haven't really thought about it. < 1277856666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1277856681 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Nah, make it purist :) < 1277856703 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like pi calc. < 1277856715 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it's been done. Probably. < 1277856752 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Invent a language like banana scheme except you can increase the level by one with a function < 1277856768 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To haltcheck more programs. < 1277856777 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest calling it (1up) < 1277856789 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not gonna do that. < 1277856791 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277856794 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not because I think it is a bad idea. < 1277856801 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But because there are bounds on my time. < 1277856821 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hard to invent that :P < 1277856823 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I encourage you to have a go at it. < 1277856834 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to beat zzo! < 1277856838 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is VITAL. < 1277856846 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some sense, not possible. < 1277856861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In another sense, already have. < 1277856870 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does he create languages faster than light? < 1277856877 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1277856902 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: That response was pure, pure brilliance. < 1277856903 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said impossible to beat :P < 1277856920 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess plain lightspeed would work too. < 1277856944 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1277856954 0 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1277856959 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the speed of light, all languages have infinite mass < 1277856965 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: I did NOT even notice the tim pun < 1277856972 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tine travel < 1277856974 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: D'AWWWWW :( < 1277856976 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*time < 1277856980 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it was brililant :P < 1277856985 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*brilliant >_> < 1277856991 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: My subconscious is hilarious XD < 1277857018 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Does that mean that as languages approach the speed of light, they become C++? < 1277857032 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ewww < 1277857043 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or PL/I < 1277857054 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Performance joke < 1277857058 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intentional? < 1277857065 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unintentional! < 1277857071 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277857087 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the subconscious party < 1277857339 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, let's pretend we can measure this. Zzo38 appears to have 59 languages listed on his wikipedia user page. < 1277857370 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 56 listed, which is fuzzy, but let's arbitrarily say, canonically so. So I need at least 4 more. < 1277857430 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTFBBQ is all this then? < 1277857481 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I checked, Wouter had 59 languages listed, 47 of which had actual names. < 1277857531 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checked again; he hasn't updated his list since Bear (2005). < 1277857577 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "first one to 60" would be a reasonable competition, but one in which I have a significant handicap. < 1277857634 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, what a way to suck the fun out of it. < 1277857671 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just keep on... whatever it is that I do. -in'. < 1277857698 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't get it at all :P < 1277857755 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: ehirdiphone has told me "You need to beat zzo!" In terms of number of languages invented. < 1277857780 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh < 1277857816 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to write few, awesome languages :P < 1277857856 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey goes for quantity + quality < 1277857861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to think I hold certain minimum standards of awesomeness. Or was it gnarliness? < 1277857870 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo goes for...um... quantity < 1277857894 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouter is lying. He can't actually program. < 1277857901 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go for ... other, equally-esoteric but less-languagey-sometimes projects? < 1277857911 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is all a NIGERIAN SCAM < 1277857932 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To take our aardappels. < 1277857944 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night. < 1277857975 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1277857979 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info < 1277857996 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I leave too now. < 1277857999 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1277858790 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277858861 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I'm taking a trip into script-kiddy central < 1277859557 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-6-11.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277859565 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.6/20100625231939] < 1277859651 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1277860074 0 :Pitagorin!~topo@81.39.59.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277860311 0 :Pitagorin!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277863077 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277863230 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277863235 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277864652 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277864676 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277865366 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1277866176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1277867691 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277867735 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277868486 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kongregate.com/games/Coolio_Niato/lighbot-2-0 < 1277868815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMFG < 1277868821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MicroXwin. < 1277868846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a windowing system that is *API* compatible with libX11. While not sucking. < 1277868870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's teensy. < 1277868930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gosh darnit it's nonfree. < 1277869034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not on the X protocol? < 1277869096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the X protocol. < 1277869735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hot shit. GTK runs directly on the framebuffer. < 1277870055 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, new idea < 1277870096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must make a language where something called a "dragon" is very complex, but somewhat useful < 1277870110 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so that a comment called "here be dragons" is both valid and useful < 1277872684 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, Knuth's supposed to make some major announcement tomorrow < 1277874349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's a windowing system that is *API* compatible with libX11. While not sucking. <-- what about the new xcb thingy < 1277874355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that most things switched to? < 1277874399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, wait, he hypes it like Jobs? < 1277874439 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/news.html#lectures < 1277874485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, not tomorrow < 1277874486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today < 1277874498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your time zone < 1277874513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 06:08 local time < 1277874515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :June 30 < 1277874520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :western Canada is still on Tuesday < 1277874521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTC+2 < 1277874643 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@comm700-a1001-dhcp102.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1277876410 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277876442 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277876475 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277876548 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277877556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277877661 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277877668 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is still Tuesday here < 1277878306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" !!!" -- my school's principal, trapped in a soundproof box 15.6m x 4.0m < 1277878325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'O_o < 1277878434 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277878611 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can figure out which is fake because my computer is "zzo38computer.cjb.net" and it will resolve to the same IP address as the address I am connecting from, so it is possible to check. < 1277878634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, what? < 1277878801 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I am register, you can use NS INFO on this server. But on some other IRC networks I might not be (it might not even support that function), so you have to figure out otherwise. < 1277878848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if it is my own IRC server you can also see "127.0.0.1" also means I connected. This way you can also be sure that it is not someone else on the same router as I am, even < 1277878911 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are making no sense whatsoever < 1277878930 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure you're talking English < 1277878938 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Why do you think it is not sense? < 1277878956 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a Markov bot < 1277878957 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do not understand, please be specific ask specific question < 1277878989 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means I imagine that zzo38 is trying to see if a bot can pass as him < 1277878991 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is no < 1277879044 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it isn't a bot. < 1277879548 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many IRC servers implement SUMMON command? < 1277879721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a zzo38 bot running off of logs of his messages. < 1277879734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh yes can be < 1277879736 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's /SUMMON? < 1277879747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, didn't he say something about that once? < 1277879760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perhaps. < 1277879767 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: SUMMON command is for telling user on the same computer as IRC server running, tell them to connect to IRC. < 1277879776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, it is running from the same host as zzo38computer.cjb.net < 1277879795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, though looks more like ALICE or such. Since it does sometimes keep on topic < 1277879808 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This is not running off of log of my messages, these are new messages! It is possible some messages are same as old ones, but mostly new messages < 1277879819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277879821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how very zzo < 1277879823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, the major thing is that the syntax is... Off. < 1277879835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1277879851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that zzo38 didn't use weird syntax. < 1277879855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is. < 1277879857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : " !!!" -- my school's principal, trapped in a soundproof box 15.6m x 4.0m <-- now that line confused the hell out of me < 1277879878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, plurals. < 1277879895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, huh, never noticed that < 1277879905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, much of the case system of English appears to be missing. < 1277879910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's *jarring* for me. < 1277879933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well sure < 1277879935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But given the errors I've seen in a lot of native speakers' English, I'm guessing it isn't for most. < 1277879946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which case system? < 1277879974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The one most people aren't aware exists because it's more the *remnants* of a case system. < 1277880002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but what is a case system!? < 1277880062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A case in a language is a change in form indicating the function of a word in a phrase or sentence. < 1277880064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we generally need plurals, who invented plurals anyways? < 1277880082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's most common in English on the pronouns. < 1277880083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you just used one < 1277880098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, am/are/is? < 1277880116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another example. < 1277880145 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes I did but I still think it is not generally needed in most cases < 1277880155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, "in most case" you mean < 1277880158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "cases" < 1277880199 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277880204 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I don't know which plural to use but I use plural anyways in English writing, mostly, since it is English writing < 1277880214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only one plural < 1277880217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is singular too < 1277880219 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not always < 1277880238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, and yes it should be cases < 1277880238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Out of immense curiosity: what is your native language? < 1277880243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was joking there < 1277880248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about your logic < 1277880251 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Canada < 1277880260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, French or English? < 1277880281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, or some native language to Canada? < 1277880291 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Canadian English < 1277880295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277880317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then... Why the heck is your English being so odd? < 1277880320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still think there is a lot of messy stuff in English and in other languages too < 1277880361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really feels like I'm seeing a non-native speaker with a decent level of competence... < 1277880379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might just be the plural thing. < 1277880418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people used to think of there must be a "ONE TRUE LANGUAGE", and that is was English, because that is the only language they know. I had similar thoughts but I thought it can't be English, because of so many strange thing! < 1277880463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :一つ真語？こりゃ英語じゃない〜。 < 1277880498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 true language? that's not English... < 1277880577 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many ... thingies can a prefix-free encoding with 8 bits encode? < 1277880583 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does NS and CS commands don't use proper IRC syntax? < 1277880628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: GAH STOP IT THAT HURTS < 1277880644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THY TALKING-WORDS CAUSE AGONY UNTO ME < 1277880678 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How can it hurt you? < 1277880695 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ns and cs aren't strictly commands < 1277880722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is incredibly, incredibly jarring. Much like nails on a chalkboard. < 1277880770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It forces me to reparse the sentence. And have to attempt to decode it. It's just... Gah. < 1277880824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: They are one kind of command? < 1277880862 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're messages to NameServ and ChanServ < 1277880874 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even messages < 1277880874 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know NS is command to access NickServ and so on < 1277880886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are merely aliases provided by some clients < 1277880895 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no NS command in the IRC protocol < 1277880909 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not in standard IRC protocol, but many servers do support NS and CS command < 1277880920 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including Freenode < 1277880921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to believe your native language is English. < 1277880937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, you can believe what you want to believe or to not believe, if you want to < 1277880955 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My native language is Python. Well, no. How do you define "native"? VB5 might be my native language in a sense < 1277880967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Native spoken language. < 1277881046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You are managing to write indisputably incorrect English. This is amazing considering that correct English is undefined. < 1277881112 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A lot of things in English are wrong, that is why sometimes we have to write wrong thing to make it correct as what is trying to mean < 1277881116 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not always < 1277881195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eigo ni tsuite machigau koto ga ooi, dakara tadashii ni naru tame ni tokidoki chigau koto wo kaeruhazu. < 1277881199 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes write gramatically incorrect sentences when I forget what I wrote at first. < 1277881203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Demo itsumo ja nai. < 1277881218 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old man the boat. < 1277881220 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why some IRC servers use different numerics for the HELP command? < 1277881222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you are writing is about as correct English as what I wrote there. < 1277881238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And about as illustrative of what you said. < 1277881253 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, We painted the wall with cracks < 1277881260 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277881388 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says you have to write /msg NickServ help commands but that doesn't work, you have to write NS HELP COMMANDS does works < 1277881454 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :officially it should be SQUERY NickServ HELP < 1277881480 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It says SQUERY is unknown command < 1277881489 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1277881491 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's in the spec < 1277881498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no one follows the spec) < 1277881532 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC server software I use does support SQUERY < 1277881559 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Freenode server software does not support SQUERY < 1277881587 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that? < 1277881634 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277881731 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask in the channel < 1277881747 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what channel? < 1277881801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ircd-seven or something < 1277881822 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277881984 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That didn't work. I got http://sprunge.us/VDBg < 1277882013 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-89.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1277882328 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just without you, this game would never exist" < 1277882354 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What game do you refer to? < 1277883028 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game I've been working on since November 2009 < 1277883074 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code's been rewritten twice, I've taken at least one major hiatus, possibly two.. < 1277883094 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two complete language changes (One of which I wasn't around to see) < 1277883109 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277883261 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@217-208-159-73-no147.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277883270 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1277883270 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1277884799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1277884800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1277887590 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277888747 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277891221 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277891681 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1277892114 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1277892288 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277892296 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277892320 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277892333 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277892347 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell instace (Monad m) => (MonadAdd m) where (>+<) :: m a -> m -> m < 1277893805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/instace/instance/ and two kind errors < 1277895473 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277895544 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277896255 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@174-29-86-244.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277897022 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277897145 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1277897754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: [2010-06-30 13:34:13] Tweeted: About NetHack: healthy, wealthy and wise quetzalcoatl, who discovered that an unlucky hacker once had a potion of sickness. (fungot) < 1277897755 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: grep for it... < 1277897778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not much of a discovery. < 1277897779 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That hacker does sound unlucky < 1277897810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I mad for printing a PDF to PDF just to cut out some of the pages in it? < 1277897838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you should pdftk it instead. < 1277897864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remove 'page 13' from in1.pdf to create out1.pdf: pdftk in.pdf cat 1-12 14-end output out1.pdf < 1277897881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even our workstations have that thing preinstalled. < 1277897896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not installed here < 1277897910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a bit sucky. < 1277898001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Priting is then perhaps better than pdftops/pdf2ps + psselect + ps2pdf; the round-trip to postscript-land sometimes messes things up. < 1277898023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only virtual printing, theoretically it shouldn't really mess with the PDF at all < 1277898087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theoretically, schmeoretically. If the virtual PDF printer pretends to be a postscript printer (which doesn't sound unlikely) it still involves some conversions, much like the pdf2ps+ps2pdf way. < 1277898704 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277898872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, Knuth is going to make an "earthshaking announcement" today < 1277898901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rare for him to self-promote like that... < 1277899051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out he wasn't a mortal human after all, but a representative of a superintelligent alien species. < 1277899056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just a guess.) < 1277899092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll always remember Knuth for optimising the translation of statements of the form "if a then b:=c" to INTERCAL < 1277899096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by avoiding branches < 1277899484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could the announcement be "just" TAoCP 4A? I'm not sure that'd be sufficiently earthshaking, since it's been promised "late 2010" anyway. < 1277899558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1277899637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth, hopefully. < 1277899639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, just saw a bogus proof on Slashdot that the last digit of pi was 5 < 1277899943 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the audio recording, when asked by Mr Mattsson what law police were using to detain him and ask for details, one officer replies: 'We don’t have to have a law.'" < 1277899951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might not be something you want to hear from the police. < 1277900335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, seems it's Wednesday next week, rather than today < 1277900441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? Knuth's own page says "Wednesday, 30 June, 5:30pm, at the Sir Francis Drake Hotel in San Francisco -- ``An Earthshaking Announcement''" < 1277900446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's today. < 1277900494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the corresponding TeX conference is "June 28-30, 2010" too.) < 1277900543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The conference program, incidentally, only lists it as "A Special Announcement!". Which one it is: earthshaking, or just special, I wonder. < 1277900994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it is today, then < 1277901824 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declare variables. Not war. < 1277901885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: hippy computer programming? < 1277901922 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs182.snc4/37459_135556353130832_124438437575957_297508_162276_n.jpg < 1277901951 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's.. rather unhelpful, isn't it, except letting everyone know that I didn't come up with it < 1277902831 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's that time in UTC-land < 1277903022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I believe it's around midnight, based on the location of the conference. < 1277903056 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, something like that < 1277903078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's +7 apparently, they're having daylight saving time going on too. < 1277903107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or UTC-7, the "+7" meant "the offset from that to UTC". < 1277903802 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277903989 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277904136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How many ... thingies can a prefix-free encoding with 8 bits encode? < 1277904163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um 256? if you use all 8 bits you have no prefixes to consider < 1277904210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, every 8-bit sequence is trivially not a prefix of any other < 1277904753 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So scratch that idea than? I just thought it would be easier to detect if the first bit were 0, or, if not, if it was 11, or if not, etc. etc. etc. < 1277904772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:05:47 !haskell instace (Monad m) => (MonadAdd m) where (>+<) :: m a -> m -> m < 1277904775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:30:05 s/instace/instance/ and two kind errors < 1277904802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually s/instace/class/ < 1277904809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still two kind errors < 1277904935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you mean you cannot do more testing if the first bit is 0, etc.? in that case you'd get only 8 possibilities, i'd think < 1277904973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0, 11, 100, 1011, 10100, 101011, 1010100, 10101011 < 1277904976 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I _cannot_, but it wouldn't be easy to be able to test all 256 possiblities < 1277905005 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "etc" < 1277905025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then the question is how many values you need < 1277905047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need 8 say, then using 3 bits would be better i should think < 1277905091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need 8 but with a non-uniform distribution, and you're going to do a per-bit testing/branching like that anyway, you could as well use a variable-length prefix-free code. < 1277905092 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe (but am not certain), that I need one awsistor per bit per value I want to test < 1277905143 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were to do full capacity.. thingy < 1277905164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 256*8 awsistors for full 8-bit? < 1277905190 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1277905201 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that would probably be a major PITA and loss of space < 1277905263 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I'm not likely to want to test every value < 1277905274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277905280 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have, say, 10 opcodes (terminology?) it's 10*8 < 1277905284 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is still a lot < 1277905320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, computersmithing? < 1277905321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with 10 opcodes you can fit those in 4 bits, so you should be able to shrink that to 10*4 < 1277905362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed a little less if you combine that with prefix-freeness < 1277905365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know what your thingies are capable of. But if you can do an "if bit n is zero, do x; otherwise y" test, and x/y can be similar tests for further bits, you only need the number of non-leaf nodes in a full binary tree of height n to attach a different action to every n-bit sequence. < 1277905465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed if it's one awsistor per if in that way, then you should need less than 256*8, since for example all cases with first bit 0 can share the first bit test < 1277905488 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what if I add an opcode later? (Or, more likely, add memory? Or output? I'd probably end up using the same checking to determine which memory or output to go to) < 1277905518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: if you add an opcode you'd have to add a new branch to one of the leaves, presumably < 1277905542 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so the tree is more flexible than assuming I'm working with 4 bits < 1277905542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say by splitting 111 into 1110 and 1111 < 1277905563 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 2 awsistors per test, I think < 1277905576 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, if/else test < 1277905585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it should still be less with tree-like branching < 1277905632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 + 128 + 256 = 510 for full 8-bit, i think < 1277905637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course if you don't mind the codeword length at all, you can treat it as a n-bit bitmask, use 100... for first opcode, 0100.. for second, etc., and then you just need one "if" test per opcode, with no elses. < 1277905658 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, 1 awsistor per if test with no else... I think < 1277905700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you'll end up with what's basically unary numbers that way; to represent n opcodes like that, you'll need n-bit numbers. < 1277905734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not exactly practical to do anything with them except use as symbols. < 1277905750 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. So opcodes, but not memory or output < 1277905804 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With memory-mapped registers, I might be able to get away with.. far fewer opcodes? < 1277905821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get away with one if you want. < 1277905839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, surely the register would need to be included in the opcode? < 1277905849 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hm < 1277905862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a matter of definition, whether operands are part of the opcode or not. < 1277905906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose it could have the register in the next octet. < 1277905907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming registers and opcode are somewhat orthogonal to each other, you might still save a lot by sharing stuff < 1277905922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia's definition considers "opcode" as "the portion of a machine language instruction that specifies the operation to be performed", with operands being other parts of the instruction. < 1277905924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you lose simple 8-bit immediate operands. < 1277905949 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do other 8-bit processors do it? < 1277905983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the register could just be in like the lowest 2-4 bits of the command? < 1277905993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you don't have that many registers < 1277906006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, usually. But you don't need to count the register as a part of the opcode even if it's in the same byte. < 1277906074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, as long as they are disjoint bits the tests for opcode and register don't need to be intertwined < 1277906102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, well... 6502 puts register names in the mnemonics, and things with different mnemonics are typically considered different opcodes. < 1277906127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's INC, INX and INY, which increment the accumulator, X and Y register, respectively. < 1277906158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reminisces
< 1277906189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it only *has* three registers, and you can't do much with X and Y (except use them as indices in quirky addressing modes), so in most cases everything just operates on the accumulator. < 1277906244 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one do addition? < 1277906247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the opcodes that move values between registers have separate mnemonics (TAX, TXA, TAY, TYA). < 1277906249 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accum + ? < 1277906269 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess multiple registers do have a use < 1277906295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only ADC, which can add-with-carry either an immediate 8-bit value, or a byte from memory. But there's several modes for addressing memory. < 1277906557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 code typically uses the 256 first bytes of memory as "registers", because you can access those with a 8-bit address operand. And there are indirect addressing modes, which [disclaimer: simplified] take a 8-bit memory operand, read a 16-bit value from memory at that address, and then operate on the byte pointed by that value. < 1277906584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There wasn't such a huge speed difference between registers and memory anyway at that point. < 1277906654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that in some derivatives there was also a register you could change that was used as the high byte of "zero-page" access. < 1277906919 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, what instruction set do you have in mind? < 1277906944 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277906975 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Move things from memory to memory. Add things located in special memory addresses < 1277906988 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, maybe an interrupt system somehow < 1277907013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A stack is a popular thing to have. At least in the call/ret sense. < 1277907047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, so everything mmapped?? < 1277907050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/??/?/ < 1277907053 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why not? < 1277907069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that wasn't an incredulous sentence. < 1277907077 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just making sure. < 1277907123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, move immediate to memory as well? < 1277907154 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-21-184.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1277907157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Meh, you just have to map the values 0..255 to some memory range, then you'll have all the constants you could need. < 1277907167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, clever. < 1277907215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think MIPS has a constant-0 "register"; one of the "general-purpose registers" is hardwired to value 0. < 1277907225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277907229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r0 < 1277907242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I invented a new esolang while lying in bed this morning < 1277907249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how i invented toi < 1277907258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea's to make it sub-TC, but only barely < 1277907260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not even in your sleep? < 1277907262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i woke up, and it just came to me < 1277907266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's expressive enough to, for instance, calculate the Ackermann function < 1277907276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it as great as toi < 1277907284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1277907291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, it's kind-of quirky < 1277907299 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well tell us < 1277907302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably useless, apart from as a typical eso programming challenge < 1277907309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, has anyone created Ackermann, the language that can only compute the Ackermann function? < 1277907320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :details aren't finalised yet, but the only flow control operator is eval < 1277907349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quining paradigm < 1277907355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to do "A = A+X" on the 6502 registers, you'd have to do something like "CLC; STX $42; ADC $42" (5 bytes, 8 cycles), where $42 is a suitable zero-page memory location for a temporary value. Unless you want to do it like "CLC; STX .foo+1; .foo: ADC #$00" (6 bytes, 8 cycles), but that probably doesn't make much sense. < 1277907362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a twist, to do with nested evals; if inside an eval you do another eval, the one on the inside must be no longer, and must come earlier in alphabetical order < 1277907365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that a good description in this case < 1277907370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with an infinite alphabet) < 1277907374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool < 1277907405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really quining paradigm, because the operators I plan to give leave the program text you evalled lying around in memory, so you don't have to reconstruct it < 1277907427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you can prove mathematically that all programs in this lang always halt, so it's sub-TC < 1277907437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes that's obvious < 1277907458 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ordering is well-founded < 1277907494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1277907512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um when calculating ackermann you definitely recurse with some values longer than the original < 1277907512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet the restriction doesn't get in the way in any real practical sense, unless you try to create an infinite loop < 1277907515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well i mean the no infinite descending chain property < 1277907522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the program text doesn't need to be longer < 1277907533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure < 1277907540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1277907548 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well need to know more details < 1277907551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, arbitrary bignums are in the alphabet, and count as only one "letter" < 1277907563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can recursively use the exact same program with just a few bignums at the start changed < 1277907572 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you will have to represent the original call as verbosely as you represent your last recursions < 1277907582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will, yes < 1277907584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait can you return? < 1277907588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1277907594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i misunderstood eval < 1277907599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so definitely not quining < 1277907605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1277907606 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1277907609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok so you get (more than) omega^2 recursion and thus ackermann < 1277907611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's traditional lispy/underloady eval, not muriel-style < 1277907620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes; I think you even get epsilon_0 recursion < 1277907641 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't I once ask if something like this was possible? < 1277907641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm less sure on that, I keep forgetting the definitions of all those really high sorts of recursion < 1277907670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone tell me what these classes are? i should probably know < 1277907682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I know was from one lecture I went to for fun < 1277907699 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i guess i should wp, i just think (hope) i'll understand them from a one-line explanation < 1277907700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epsilon_0 = inf { alpha | omega ^ alpha = alpha } ? < 1277907712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from one of the stories in gödel, escher, bach < 1277907715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/inf/min/, really < 1277907721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think so < 1277907755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not sure you can get more than omega^omega, actually < 1277907767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1277907783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye for now. < 1277907785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I remember is an example of a function that requires at least fixed-point-1 style recursion to reach < 1277907801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you do is, you have a string of digits, initially in binary < 1277907814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you repeatedly: subtract 1, then interpret the result in the next base up < 1277907818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an n-length string gives you omega^n afaict < 1277907826 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's omega? < 1277907837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first infinite ordinal, aka the naturals < 1277907845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. you start with 1000, subtract 1 and get 111, interpret that as ternary, subtract 1 and get 110, interpret that as base 4, subtract 1 and get 103, interpret that as base 5, etc < 1277907848 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? then i'm confused < 1277907855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function blows up really really quickly < 1277907865 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what omega^2 recursion is < 1277907869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much faster than the ackermann function < 1277907904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it goes beyond omega^n, because you're allowed to exit from an eval and go into another one < 1277907958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, at least < 1277908035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277908090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: omega^2 recursion is the kind you do with ackermann. basically when you calculate A(m,n) you always recurse to something for which omega*m + n is smaller < 1277908122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not sure "omega^2 recursion" is the right technical term, but that's the idea < 1277908122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you can think of omega as being a bit like an arbitrarily high integer whose value you have to know in advance < 1277908123 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get what omega*m + n means < 1277908127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a rather poor description < 1277908134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277908138 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay sure i guess < 1277908148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, or as an integer greater than any other integer you use during the course of the calculation not defined in terms of omega < 1277908164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of "finite infinity" < 1277908171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could we just think of omega*m + n as (m, n) < 1277908175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's the ordinal number for the order given by m copies of the natural numbers followed by n single elements < 1277908181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1277908188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1277908268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's a decent definition when you're just dealing with omega, omega^2, etc < 1277908276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it starts to get confusing when you get omega^omega < 1277908277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we order pairs as (m1, n1) > (m2, n2) iff m1 > m2 or (m1 = m2 and n1 > n2), and then omega^2 recursion means our pairs get smaller when we recurse < 1277908289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: basically for any well-founded recursive function you can define its ordinal rank recursively < 1277908307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yep < 1277908336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait is that quite well-defined < 1277908341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1277908349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do we define its ordinal rank recursively < 1277908369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm starting to doubt it < 1277908389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's uniquely defined, that is < 1277908469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if you have only omega recursion that's the same as primitive recursion i think. basically you have _one_ argument that needs to consistently get smaller. < 1277908571 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w.r.t. some well-founded ordering < 1277908577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1277908580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277908583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt being a natural number < 1277908586 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277908612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the argument is in the well-founded ordering then - oh now i see < 1277908623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the well-founded ordering that has an ordinal rank < 1277908671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm starting to forget what we're doing here < 1277908672 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277908699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any total recursive function such a well-founded ordering needs to exist, but it's not unique. and in principle you could just use the recursion depth, but that doesn't help you prove the function _is_ total without circularity < 1277908762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is an ordinal rank something any well-founded ordering has? < 1277908764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for ackermann say, you could use A(m,n) _itself_ as your well-founded ordering but that is useless until you've proved the ackermann function is well-defined < 1277908771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i think so. < 1277908839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define the ordinal of an element a to be min { alpha | alpha > rank (b) for all b < a } < 1277908840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it occurs to me there's a colorful theory behind all this, what's its name? < 1277908869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elementary set theory < 1277908879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um if it's more than ordinals and transfinite recursion, then i'm not sure < 1277908897 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying i know there's a colorful theory < 1277908900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1277908924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying i know there is one that has been fully discovered, i'm saying i'm sensing the presense of a theory i do not know < 1277908967 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*c) < 1277909064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the example that ais523 gave above (changing base and subtracting one) requires epsilon_0 recursion. it's significance is due to the fact that pure peano arithmetic cannot prove that function is well-defined, because peano arithmetic can only define recursive functions with ordinal strictly _less_ than epsilon_0. < 1277909077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today they had a seminar about textile systems and i skipped it because the last time i went i didn't understand a word :'( < 1277909106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1277909121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"transfinite", that was the word I was trying to remember < 1277909160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well clothes fashion is boring anyway < 1277909277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%95%E2%82%80 < 1277909294 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you have two graphs, T and C, we think of the edges of T as tiles and the edges of C as colors on the tops and bottoms of the tiles. we have two graph homomorphisms t and b from T to C, bi-infinite paths in T we think of as lines of tiles, and the images of those paths with t and b we think of as the color sequences below and on top of the line < 1277909308 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how much i know < 1277909314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodstein%27s_theorem < 1277909328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what ais523 referred to) < 1277909347 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why "good"stein, is there a bad stein it improves on? < 1277909351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAA < 1277909354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DSa < 1277909359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks.
< 1277909393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: careful there, you might be accused of antisemitism with such a joke < 1277909444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe i will be for assuming it's a jewish name without checking < 1277909456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wp only says he was english) < 1277909535 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be hard for me to be antisemite given that i learned about jews when i was like 15 < 1277909549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, assuming these things usually develop early < 1277909564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well i guess it could be an intellectual choice < 1277909588 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be weird too because there are basically no jews in finland < 1277909611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never let them get in < 1277909642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Today, there are synagogues in Helsinki and Turku and the number of Jews is 1,200." < 1277909648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go tell that to them! < 1277909656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this phd student in our uni who couldn't get to usa for a conference or something because he's from iran < 1277909657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, reminds me of a documentary I saw when I was in Canada < 1277909664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking about the fact that there was exactly one Jew in Afghanistan < 1277909675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's actually relevant for norway, our constitution initially forbade jews from entering the country) < 1277909685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ouch < 1277909704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, the UK "constitution" still forbids Catholics marrying in to the Royal Family < 1277909707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also jesuits and catholic monks iirc < 1277909710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the EU told them it was racist and had to change < 1277909715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: okay but they are still not a thing, saying there are jews in finland, to me, is like saying some people in finland like to eat only even amounts of grapes at a time. < 1277909727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ possibly the stupidest metaphor i've ever heard < 1277909775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if there /are/ people who restrict grape-eating to even numbers < 1277909781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277909789 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do at least some parity stuff with graphs < 1277909798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I wonder about "at a time", is that like they'll only stick even numbers of grapes into their mouths at once, or just they want to end up with an even total of grapes eaten during one grape-eating session? < 1277909806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i split the grapes in two in my mouth with alternating sides of my mouth < 1277909809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there are people who refuse to eat grapes, and thus fulfil the grape-eating condition degenerately < 1277909822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: latter < 1277909843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "You degenerate grape-eater" is quite an insult. < 1277909859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wow, insults must be weird where you live < 1277909867 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it is possible that i often end up eating an even amount because i have to make my mouth sides feel symmetric < 1277909874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many things i have to do symmetrically < 1277909881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What, are you a jew?! < 1277909886 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277909930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on another note, I got into a discussion on Slashdot about whether it was theoretically possible for P=NP to be undecidable < 1277909956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone said it was possible that there was an algorithm for solving an NP-complete problem, where it was undecidable whether the algo was P-time or not < 1277909962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is really quite a bizarre thing to think about < 1277909963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not possible, but it's possible it's unprovable from whatever set of axioms we have < 1277909978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I thought it wasn't provably undecidable < 1277909996 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things with a finite amount of inputs are never undecidable < 1277910014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess it's clear what they mean < 1277910090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard bizarre things in this area: let S be the set of numbers n such that pi in base 10 contains the sequence "7"^n, then S is decidable < 1277910115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah imagine if someone found an algorithm that seemed to always work fast, but no one could prove why it worked < 1277910120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it has infinitely many inputs and we have no idea how to actually create that algorithm < 1277910211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this "contains" as in contains not as part of a larger "7"^n ? < 1277910221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1277910229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's not decidable < 1277910233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1277910237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not trivially decidable < 1277910249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1277910263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for some value of trivial < 1277910279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it requires allowing subsets automatically, so the set is necessarily of the form {"7"^n | n < N } for some N which might be infinity < 1277910291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and "a set S of numbers is decidable" means the language there's a tm that accepts exactly the language {1^n | n \in S} < 1277910334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and there's an explanation that makes it seem very unbizarre < 1277910344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm but it should also reject on the complement, right? < 1277910356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not fail to halt) < 1277910367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277910369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1277910379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't see how that's decidable? < 1277910394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't expect you'd fall for that one < 1277910411 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whether i did is a secret) < 1277910414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i do, the set is {1,...,N} for some N or all natural numbers < 1277910426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1277910428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/1/0/ < 1277910435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1277910445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your question was about my definition of accepting a set of numbers < 1277910453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277910469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yeah i meant a tm that always halts < 1277910481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it only needs to accept or else not halt, then i think it's also easy to find an explicit TM < 1277910496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just search through pi < 1277910498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, just enumerate < 1277910500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi's digits < 1277910564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pi clearly doesn't contain infinitely many consecutive 7s < 1277910567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that would force it to be rational < 1277910569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally it's extremely likely that TM works anyhow (because the set _is_ all natural numbers, so it never fails to halt) < 1277910580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not what he said < 1277910591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1277910595 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need S to be unbounded for N to be infinite < 1277910600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yu < 1277910601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yup < 1277910650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: extremely likely with what probability measure exactly?!? :D < 1277910664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a _very_ intuitive measure < 1277910678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a very intuitive space < 1277910692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy as pi! < 1277910754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1277910765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could say lebesque measure... < 1277910795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in an intuitive sense but still < 1277910845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_analysis < 1277910871 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any way we "access" reals might in theory increase the probability of not having infinitely long sequences of 7's < 1277911076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can even define a measure such that with probability 1, the number contains no 7 at all < 1277911132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277911142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277911149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every nonempty set has infinite measure < 1277911154 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277911161 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probabilities sorry let's think..asdf < 1277911170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fun trick maths question: given a circle with radius 1 and a random secant of it, what's the probability that the segment of the secant inside the circle has a length of at least sqrt(3)? < 1277911223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("easy" way: take a uniformly selected number in [0,1], write it in base 9, then change each 7 to a 9 and reinterpret as base 10) < 1277911274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think i've read about that, there are several "intuitive" ways of making the random selection with different answers, isn't it < 1277911279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*aren't there < 1277911281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277911288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is that "random secant" isn't defined < 1277911295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there isn't enough information to be able to define it < 1277911319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles secant...
< 1277911358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: line that intersects a circle twice < 1277911388 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i was just wondering about segment of secant inside the blah because i thought the secant already means that segment < 1277911401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if the secant was the whole line or not, so I put that in just to be sure < 1277911596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaargh. hate being put on hold... < 1277911603 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll go build my NAND gate now < 1277911667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have two alphabets P and T, and we have a function f from P to T. we have a set D \subset P^(2,2) (2x2 squares of P's); we say a local picture language is a language L' = {X \in P^(m,n) | for all subsquares S of X that are of size 2x2, we have that S \in D}; we define recognizable picture languages as images of local picture languages, L is recognizable iff L = f(L') for some local L' < 1277911682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION felt like it was time for some definitions.
< 1277911742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is sort of a finite version of sofic shifts) < 1277911768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277911847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was proven with a neat tentacle construction that the "language of trees", that is the language where T = arrows left/right/up/down and we require that a picture have no cycles, is a recognizable picture language < 1277911860 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 1998 iirc < 1277911885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 2006 the same author (reinhardt) proved that the language of directed acyclic graphs is also recognizable < 1277911927 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this fact can be used to prove so called deterministic picture languages are recognizable < 1277911984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's all for now, i should eat something -> < 1277912002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also quasiperiodicity has at least three different definitions < 1277912276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there is a quasiperiodic sequence of them < 1277912465 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277912579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't have an opinion on what the definition should be? :P < 1277913467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that i would have to remember at least one < 1277914032 0 :cpressey1!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277914032 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277914060 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, tradeoffs < 1277914070 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digital adder: Fast, but very, very large < 1277914080 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analog adder: Slow, and prone to errors, but small < 1277914207 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1277914435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well not necessarily, but yeah might be useful < 1277914457 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean given that there are three different definitions... < 1277914567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1277914567 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Death adder: fast and small and poisonous. Watch out! < 1277915920 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My NAND gate uses 7 awsistors < 1277916287 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard omega described as "the largest finite integer" < 1277916306 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if they were trying to be funny < 1277916350 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It kind of works, though < 1277916736 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277916739 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277917170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Digital adder: Fast, but very, very large <-- eh no < 1277917194 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh I'm not talking about RL circuitry < 1277917215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, a simple adder with no carry forwarding thingy network should be quite simple < 1277917228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a lot of full adders hooked up to each other < 1277917230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, ^ < 1277917237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, RL? < 1277917252 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even one logic gate is very large < 1277917259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 4 transistors < 1277917263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a NAND < 1277917280 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I';ve sort of done two inverse gates here >.> < 1277917280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, they tend to be in the µm scale or nm nowdays maybe < 1277917303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, what do you mean RL though? < 1277917312 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, as in, this is virtual circuitry < 1277917316 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Active Worlds. < 1277917319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1277917320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1277917370 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 transistors for a NAND is something I should note though. I'm using 7 awsistors, and recently realized that awsistors are very similar to transistors... < 1277917375 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I may be doing it wrong. < 1277917723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I'm talking about CMOS though < 1277917729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you have two variants for it < 1277917737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for TTL, who knows < 1277917741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know at least < 1277918229 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Started-Electronics-Forrest-Mims/dp/0945053282 < 1277918265 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any 2-input gate can be built with 2 BJTs. ("Normal" transistors.) < 1277918280 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except *maybe* XOR. I don't recall. < 1277918327 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AND" just puts them in series, "OR" in parallel. "NOT" you get "for free" by choosing where to get the output from. < 1277918413 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except here I'm doing it twice < 1277918438 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For NAND, I'm putting the NOTs in series, and the .. whatevers, in parallel < 1277918450 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, a bit wasteful < 1277918454 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~mssz/CompOrg/Figure1.16-NANDcircuit.gif < 1277918511 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that has a very direct relationship to how it would look in awcircuitry, but that is all there is, in TTL. < 1277918585 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, the transistor symbols.. I don't get that < 1277918846 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the wire on the left is the base -- current on it controls current flowing between the other two wires. < 1277918899 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's current on both of (A) and (B), current will flow from +Vcc to ground, and you won't get any on (X). < 1277918928 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if there is no current on either (A) or (B), the "path" from +Vcc to ground is "blocked", and so you'll see current at (X). < 1277918957 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("path" and "blocked" don't really need quotes, I geuss.) < 1277919051 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, NOT isn't quite free, at least in the model I'm using < 1277919062 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I'm starting to think is a really sucky model < 1277919107 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Have you looked at neural models? They seem closer to what you're working with sounds like. < 1277919122 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, no :/ < 1277919216 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each neuron has a threshhold. It receives inputs which increase its "energy level" until that threshhold. Then it empties itself into whatever neighbours its connected to. (This is of course a very idealized model, not much like a real neuron) < 1277919239 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you add inhibitors to them (basically NOT), they're universal < 1277919294 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277919295 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is from Minsky's book < 1277919323 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Computation-Finite-Infinite-Machines-Automatic/dp/0131655639 < 1277919459 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how, if I accidentally press ctrl-S in a terminal, it looks like everything froze. Some things die hard. I also wonder who really uses Caps Lock, or overwrite mode, these days. < 1277919484 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This observation will of course be greeted with cries of "Hey *I* use overwrite mode" < 1277919487 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use overwrite mode to write Befunge < 1277919520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also would often like to use Ctrl-S if it were bindable to something else < 1277919570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-S itself is too often used by programs so I have it disabled < 1277919656 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277919868 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1277919889 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277919902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Ctrl-S. < 1277919907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because S is next to A < 1277919912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I use Ctrl-A a lot. < 1277920015 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277920016 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1277920270 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1277920306 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1277920322 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1277920732 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277920765 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1277921619 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277921735 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277921978 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277922514 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277923058 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1277923084 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277923366 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-243.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1277923394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277923434 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277923560 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-80-35.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277923569 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277924223 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277924238 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I have /home on a separate partition now. < 1277924247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm one of the cool kids! < 1277924341 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, are you one of those guys now < 1277924376 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sorry, you've become That Guy < 1277924399 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Guy? < 1277924488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277925046 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm wondering how I can combine an OO-style Actor model < 1277925051 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Haskell's IO/STM monads. < 1277925125 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277925303 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277925572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Don't < 1277925685 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://sulzmann.blogspot.com/2008/10/actors-with-multi-headed-receive.html < 1277925759 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the package http://hackage.haskell.org/package/actor < 1277925901 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277925957 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277926038 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why not? < 1277926057 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277926063 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277926440 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wondering why I should bother implementing this whole library < 1277926451 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, using this library, declarating its typeclasses, etc < 1277926457 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I could just use channel primitives. < 1277926579 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the paper: http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~sulzmann/publications/multi-headed-actors.pdf < 1277926585 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a nice syntax < 1277926589 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current am < 1277926636 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to understand what it means by multi-headed. < 1277926648 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple messages at once < 1277926665 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, receiving them < 1277926845 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1277926857 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't that be implemented with... tuples? < 1277926865 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or lists? < 1277926895 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you read the paper yet? the first example shows why multi-headed is cool < 1277926897 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a regular case < 1277926985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish oerjan was here < 1277927011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about receiving head < 1277927046 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, it looks at least interesting. But I can't help but think it's unecessary for what I'm doing. Do you know anything about the efficiency of the approach? < 1277927160 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277927162 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see. < 1277927171 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can receive messages composed by multiple actors? < 1277927298 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, no, not what I was thinking < 1277927329 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277927399 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, actually yes that is what I was thinking. < 1277927418 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty interesting. I still can't think of what I would need it for. < 1277927715 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277927740 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277927883 0 :Warrior`!~warrior@117.201.48.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277928106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess having multiple-heads makes "handshaking" easier. < 1277928119 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277928779 0 :tombom__!tombom@86.29.78.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277928871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: call to signal(13, 0x1) < 1277928871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocked: call to setlocale(6, "") < 1277928873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: call to rand() < 1277928873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: call to rand() < 1277928873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: call to rand() < 1277928879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(process:8103): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library. < 1277928879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Using the fallback 'C' locale. < 1277928883 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277928884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vlc told me all of these < 1277928887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is up with it? < 1277928957 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vlc is havng an existential breakdown. < 1277928961 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1277929091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, hah < 1277929102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocked: call to unsetenv("DBUS_ACTIVATION_ADDRESS") < 1277929102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocked: call to unsetenv("DBUS_ACTIVATION_BUS_TYPE") < 1277929107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now those it didn't say before < 1277929226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Why are you tracing it? < 1277929337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I'm not afaik < 1277929343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is just telling me that all the time < 1277929351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if I was tracing it I would use strace < 1277929354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not < 1277929368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how do I turn off the tracing? < 1277929369 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to determine the max cells used by a bf program? < 1277929382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrior`, yes, solving the halting program I think < 1277929383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrior`: Halting problem says "no". < 1277929390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Beats me. < 1277929399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrior`, so by using an oracle machine, yes < 1277929426 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm...some searched led me to this < 1277929428 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rohitab.com/discuss/index.php?showtopic=36344&view=findpost&p=10077035 < 1277929465 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the code is confusing < 1277929489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could run and check < 1277929498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it halts and don't depend on IO < 1277929502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then you know < 1277929514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is only by running the code and checking it that you find this out though < 1277929523 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm...i will have to think about it deeply < 1277929580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1277929583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial < 1277929598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if you already know the area < 1277929791 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.not much..so have to know the background knowledge < 1277930272 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277930367 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277930383 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1277930784 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277930813 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277931109 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So very, very like a while. < 1277931114 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whale. < 1277931122 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So very, very etc. < 1277931516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :very while(Very like a whale) { More so than a real whale. } | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1277931519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, :P < 1277931594 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. < 1277931776 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.6/20100625231939] < 1277932557 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277933344 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277933647 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277933805 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277933823 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277933833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is idiot of mahjong: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_11/idiot_of_mahjong.jpg < 1277933841 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277933876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever says discard the red five is idiot. This is a complete hand worth at least 4 han. < 1277933935 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what about the No.5126278? 3 for ryanpeikou + 2 for iipeikou does not even add up to seven. In addition, this hand has neither. < 1277933956 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277933959 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277933972 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277933983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ...? < 1277934022 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You look...? < 1277934054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that link < 1277934060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1277934063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't get it < 1277934104 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at message number 5126278 for one thing, that one you might see one thing that is wrong right away. But there are more things wrong with that message and also with the other messages < 1277934122 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O no, it is correct < 1277934139 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does add up correctly, but it is still wrong. Iipeikou is worth only 1 point. < 1277934176 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277934294 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In case you don't know mahjong, I will tell you, ryanpeikou means you have iipeikou twice. Generally the scoring is 1 for each iipeikou + 1 extra for ryanpeikou, adding to to 3 in total for ryanpeikou.) < 1277934414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I found a QBASIC code which is very bad. It uses subroutines where ON GOTO would do much better, and duplicates code a lot where subroutines would have worked better. In addition, there is many useless line labels with dumb names, and various other problems as well. < 1277934428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277934433 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, the program does not even work. It often crashes due to stack overflow. < 1277934477 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277934526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re " ... <-- even my old old nokia can use java. Not sure about applets though, but I think it might", if you mean a J2ME-enabled phone, that's very different from real Java (perhaps not language-wise, but library-wise) and in any case can only run J2'3-specific "midlets". < 1277934590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not to mention that Nokia's J2ME VM used to be very sucky.) < 1277934659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"J2'3" is also a nice typo for J2ME. < 1277934712 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many *bad codes* have you seen? < 1277934834 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad codes? < 1277934850 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad programming codes < 1277934863 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of bad codes in the user notes in the PHP documentation < 1277935064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : By "programming codes" do you mean source code? < 1277935109 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1277935127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's tonnes of bad code. < 1277935160 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's bad code, and then there's, like, AMAZINGLY AWFUL code. < 1277935188 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonder which describes the code that he tends to write
< 1277935198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, there's tonnes of both. < 1277935246 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write codes, some people say it is bad but other people say it is good. And then, sometimes I write things which are obviously wrong when I look at it the next day < 1277935286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1277935296 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277935304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example code on the internet (forum responses and such) tends to be bad because it tends to be untested. There's a few exceptions, of course. < 1277935319 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it tends not to be AMAZINGLY AWFUL. < 1277935324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, there's bad code, and then there's, like, AMAZINGLY AWFUL code. <-- tdwtf? < 1277935373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, "AMAZINGLY AWFUL" code tends to be tested < 1277935404 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277935423 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Tested, only nominally. But it does tend to be in production, yes. < 1277935522 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277935542 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bad QBASIC program I refer to is a game called "WRY HUMOR". The codes is not even consistent!! In addition, some of the text it contains is like this: " Arachind - An spider like organism with 4 legs" and " Well anyway you get eaten by a grizzly bear for the stupidest reason you could ever think of... (This DOEN'T mean I'm going to tell you!)" < 1277935584 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has line labels named igsdfgjid564: and adizzzermpopopainloasdasaop186: and zzzdadggsdfskevindfmainloop191: and none of them are ever used elsewhere in the program. < 1277935584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, indeed < 1277935616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277935648 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277935655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, they have weird taste in metasyntactic variables? < 1277935658 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277935713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, okay the real wtf is that they wrote "An spider" < 1277935715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1277935726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you don't get the joke there is nothing I can do to help you) < 1277935727 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a program that runs a game that doesn't allow puzzles to be updated while the game is running "amazingly awful"? < 1277935753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, you completely missed the point < 1277935758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, this is code wise < 1277935760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not UI wise < 1277935777 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be both in this case < 1277935786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1277935790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Sgeo_'s example < 1277935790 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one function in my code that has way too many anonymous functions and is thus too large < 1277935804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anonymous funcs? < 1277935808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like lambdas? < 1277935814 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large lambdas < 1277935829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so refactor the code < 1277935830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What differentiates those from small lambdas? < 1277935830 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten- or twenty-page-long lambdas < 1277935843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, *shudder* < 1277935855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, which code? The robot thing? < 1277935870 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277935884 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277935898 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"robot thing"? If by that, you mean the game < 1277936011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might. I'm not sure. < 1277936076 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277936131 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRY also has inconsistent spacing and indent, and here is some other part of the codes: http://sprunge.us/EFUj < 1277936176 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can see how dumb it is. < 1277936191 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Where did you find this gem? < 1277936215 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some archive of QBASIC programs. Most files there are not that bad, but some are, and this is one of them < 1277936235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRESS A CERTIAN NUMBER TO CONTINUE!!! < 1277936249 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where Certia is. < 1277936264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, indeed, what its numbers are like. < 1277936282 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, pressable, apparently. < 1277936300 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1277936343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certia appears to be a Finnish company. < 1277936355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently they make numbers. < 1277936476 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1277936487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they... make numbers? < 1277936493 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds awesome < 1277936524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, they claim to be some sort of financial thing. < 1277936541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277936547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They must make numbers that are better than the competition. < 1277936549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds much boringer. < 1277936579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought they were like you know if you need a cool number for like a safe combination in your movie or something < 1277936584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably make a living off patenting large primes, come to think of it. < 1277936584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd call them < 1277936605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they'd make a number that fits the atmosphere of the movie < 1277936628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i didn't want to reference that aspect because it's been done to death < 1277936641 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(these things are very easy to kill) < 1277936653 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i should go to slayp < 1277936657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd be all "sorry, we're out of numbers right now, but we'll be getting more next Tuesday from our number mines". < 1277936669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :number mines :--) < 1277936685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything comes from mines. < 1277936697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Refined from ore? < 1277936723 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbore < 1277936727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they refine primes from large composites extracted from the earth. < 1277936732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1277936737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I was thinking. < 1277936739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it < 1277936741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes they put failed mathematicans to slave in the mines < 1277936753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians* < 1277936761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lllllllllol at primes refined from composites < 1277936788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there failed mathematicians? I thought they were just suboptimally succeeded ones. < 1277936793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, no, the mathematicians are used to refine the composites. < 1277936816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes. I said the failed ones < 1277936823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes indeed < 1277936834 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, ah. < 1277936836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :composite numbers composite numbers composite numbers composite numbers < 1277936874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combustible numbers. < 1277936883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, mine gas < 1277936887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well known hazard < 1277936901 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1277936916 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err there aren't any sort of by-products when you refine primes out of composites < 1277936922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird < 1277936928 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1277936930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh there are < 1277936935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, decimal points < 1277936937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's the problem of ending up with complexes. < 1277936943 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if we actually extract *reals* < 1277936944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and that yes < 1277936945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277936947 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you AnMaster < 1277936956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway we could refine rationals out of them < 1277936969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know hone the edges a bit < 1277936974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no, they refine an integer then, and hit it with a hammer < 1277936976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it cracks < 1277936978 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe more file than hone < 1277936984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get two complementary fractions < 1277937017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Gaussian primes? < 1277937025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what about them? < 1277937035 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the definition of a gaussian prime < 1277937039 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277937049 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably you refine them from Gaussian integers. < 1277937051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can probably guess < 1277937060 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, they're like primes, but complex. < 1277937082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes they end up as one of the components of the gaussian integer pellets < 1277937090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you sort them out from them < 1277937113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by refining indeed < 1277937129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can split a Gaussian integer into 2 integers. < 1277937132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, anyway I never got " fuck you AnMaster" < 1277937138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, plus an i < 1277937148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, OK, you get some i left over. < 1277937149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the halfs get an i < 1277937161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you need to complement away < 1277937168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a process similar to oxidation < 1277937182 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277937188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i was just wondering whether it's the natural definition or whether it was some sort of pseudodefinition. which was a bit stupid i guess. < 1277937215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean for instance you might for some reason want primes to be gaussian primes < 1277937219 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filebin down? < 1277937219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, lone is are unstable. < 1277937224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case i have no idea how you'd define them < 1277937226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, lone? < 1277937233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277937235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1277937236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i:s < 1277937241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why they would be. < 1277937241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well yes < 1277937244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does that happen to give them actually < 1277937248 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-80-35.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277937256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tend to collapse into a real. < 1277937258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah no < 1277937286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, _real_ly? < 1277937290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, primes of the form 4n+3 are Gaussian primes. < 1277937292 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :characterization on wp says only primes of some form are gaussian < 1277937294 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277937298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one < 1277937300 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, no, but it sounds gooc. < 1277937306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/gooc/good/ < 1277937316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ... you didn't get my joke? < 1277937329 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1277937334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway, not collapse, decay < 1277937338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As much for not getting it as the pun. < 1277937356 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@173.153.127.214 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277937357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah < 1277937363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, hi < 1277937375 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1277937383 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1277937389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor-P, how many fingers am i holding up < 1277937396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lo, it is Gregor-P! < 1277937405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-pi/2 < 1277937409 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, 3+4i. < 1277937415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Gaussian prime�! < 1277937431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not !? < 1277937450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's because of the UK keyboard layout. < 1277937459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� is next to ! when you have shift on. < 1277937520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hmm, its length is 5 so if you had two gaussians multiplying to it, one would have |length| = 5 and one |len| = 1, proving it's a prime < 1277937565 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like GNU long options? I prefer short options < 1277937584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, they're all right. < 1277937603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do you think quasiperiodicity should mean? < 1277937608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't like GNU long options. I like to use short options < 1277937612 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't know < 1277937630 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't anyone have a strong opinion on this < 1277937634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see what wp sayd < 1277937636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says < 1277937645 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Maybe it is like periodicity that it is a different kind changes sometimes? I don't know < 1277937670 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.248.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277937673 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did Knuth announce? < 1277937685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, that's what I meant to ask < 1277937696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, do you know? < 1277937698 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pikhq: < 1277937722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have X ATM. < 1277937723 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.answers.com/topic/quasiperiodic-tiling <<< ah, great idea, don't define it at all < 1277937727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one gets mad! < 1277937732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the announcement doesn't happen for another few hours. < 1277937735 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: < 1277937737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDdd < 1277937741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoooooooooray wp < 1277937742 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh. < 1277937747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only 2:41 PM pacific time. < 1277937749 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many? Dammit. < 1277937756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait maybe that's not newest wp entry let's check actual wp < 1277937761 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: *clattering of fine china* Hi! < 1277937766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you could rebuild from inside X < 1277937788 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, what sort of tone did he use when saying he'd announce something? < 1277937792 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good? Bad? < 1277937808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not when you're rebuilding dependencies of most everything on X11. < 1277937822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Earth-shattering" is all I heard. < 1277937829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, dude I went modular X while running non-modular X < 1277937834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, on gentoo < 1277937839 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bet: Good - he's making a new typesetting system; bad - disease, TAOCP being handed over to so < 1277937842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, this was inside konsole even < 1277937847 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meone else or cancelled < 1277937852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're crazy. I don't want things to break. < 1277937861 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One or the other. < 1277937867 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good or bad. < 1277937871 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's proved P!=NP < 1277937871 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Maybe he sold TeX to Oracle. < 1277937878 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people say some of my codes also bad http://sprunge.us/ajHX they said the body of the argopt_par is the most obscure C codes they ever seen. But it is not obscure. It is not IOCCC. < 1277937884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, unlikely, same binary < 1277937888 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-NP: Really? < 1277937889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :already running < 1277937891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'm not sure what you mean by different kind changes, can you be more precise, assuming we have points, neighborhoods and jumps and a point is periodic if it jumps back to its original spot after a finite amount of jumps (jumps are deterministic) < 1277937893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Or he could be announcing the immediate release of the entirety of TAOCP. < 1277937902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehirdiphone: Maybe he sold TeX to Oracle. <-- or he went open office! < 1277937909 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't really know. I just made up something < 1277937920 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think he's going to spill the beans on what *really* happened to Dijkstra. < 1277937921 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well. No. < 1277937930 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earth shattering implies exciting o < 1277937930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The whole point of this is that the ABI of a fundamental library changed and I don't want runtime linker oddities. < 1277937933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you don't really need to know anything to be able to explain what you mean, but okay :) < 1277937933 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1277937936 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not death < 1277937937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I still think he's going to spill the beans on what *really* happened to Dijkstra. <-- what are you talking about? < 1277937944 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think TeX is not a bad thing < 1277937961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: "I have finished TAoCP. Published immediately." < 1277937962 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Lone gunman? Ha! < 1277937973 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Doubt. < 1277937983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not likely, no. < 1277937993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd involve him writing a few orders of magnitude faster. < 1277937994 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet major tex revision or new typesetting system < 1277938003 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/esolangs/ :( < 1277938013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most likely. < 1277938024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, BORING. < 1277938034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dude: TeX. < 1277938036 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people have said my program Icoruma is like TeX. But it is different and has different uses < 1277938038 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: My reddit :3 < 1277938039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Lone gunman? Ha! <-- what? < 1277938040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Praise be unto TeX. < 1277938044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking :p < 1277938046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love tex < 1277938050 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just... < 1277938052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For "Earth-shattering" he basically needs P!=NP. < 1277938053 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The... < 1277938057 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*headdesk* < 1277938061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is not bad thing though < 1277938063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Like TeX in design philosophy, not in particular details. < 1277938073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, no need to repea < 1277938075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat < 1277938078 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, maybe he dis/proved P=NP or something... that'd be cool < 1277938088 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain tex ftw < 1277938104 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. I suppose maybe it is, but I wouldn't know because I didn't know much about TeX when I made Icoruma < 1277938107 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck latex :P < 1277938113 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In both senses! < 1277938118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, disagree, meh < 1277938124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in at least one sense < 1277938125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have created a true Turing machine." That'd be awesome. < 1277938135 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: He so doesn't seem the kind of researcher to be working on that problem, though. < 1277938135 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you deny the knuth? < 1277938137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, a true UTM or just TM? < 1277938137 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: In both senses of both words and also of the ":P" sign senses? < 1277938137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely we'd have noticed. < 1277938139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, true Universal ... < 1277938144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: UTM. < 1277938147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ouch < 1277938154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He got an infinite spool of tape he found at the hardware store. < 1277938155 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "I have proved... The Bible!" < 1277938155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277938161 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crickets < 1277938163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: XD < 1277938168 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...=NP?" < 1277938172 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crickets < 1277938196 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prove the Bible? What about the Bible? The Bible is simply a collection of various old books compiled together. < 1277938205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, I have proven crickets != NP ! < 1277938210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove that it's the word of god < 1277938215 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people disagree on some details of how the Bible is compiled together < 1277938221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277938227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no one disagrees on the fact it's the word of god < 1277938227 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TRYE < 1277938229 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You can't prove that! You can't really disprove that either though, I guess < 1277938229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1277938233 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* TRUE < 1277938235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you can't < 1277938238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but truth isn't about proof < 1277938240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he become allergic to electricity < 1277938241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1277938242 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Knuth can. < 1277938247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering it was a some TeX conference < 1277938254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is likely to be TeX related < 1277938255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1277938258 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God existing is an independent statement < 1277938261 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nah < 1277938268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, no? < 1277938269 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically a gathering of knuth fans < 1277938271 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Yes it is independent statement < 1277938275 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More likely though < 1277938280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277938281 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not >.5 < 1277938293 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> .5 prob < 1277938294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, >.5? < 1277938296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277938313 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do *you* think about the argopt_par codes? Do you think these codes is obscure or do you think IOCCC is obscure? < 1277938332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I have never heard of the first < 1277938338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i thought they looked pretty obscure at a glimpse < 1277938341 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So apparently the unit doesn't trust me with overthecounter stuff. pikhq! Woe with me. < 1277938356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Woe is me", surely? < 1277938356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, overthecounter stuff? < 1277938361 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://sprunge.us/ajHX < 1277938368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: That's a liability measure. < 1277938398 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it makes no sense to me, if tht helps. < 1277938401 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hydrocortisone cream or however you spell it. It's steroidal, must be DEADLY. < 1277938415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What part makes no sense to you? < 1277938416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get fucked up in any way and they let you take OTC drugs on your own, they could quite possibly get sued to hell and back. < 1277938416 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have eczma and a pollen allergy.) < 1277938434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, all of it. < 1277938442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, uhu < 1277938446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1277938446 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They haven't found it but a close miss and they mumbled about hydrocortisone before - long story < 1277938447 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not IOCCC obscure, though. < 1277938448 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: well you might eat it < 1277938464 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do you understand the comments? < 1277938466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not to say they have any reason to not say "Okay, apply it in front of us", because this is the way reasonable people deal with the legal department being a bunch of paranoid maniacs. < 1277938475 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need it to stop my skin exploding in pain anyway < 1277938478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, then again, these are not reasonable people. < 1277938501 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They wanted to get it written up by a doctor. ...Like they want to do with PARACETAMOL. < 1277938506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I haven't time to read it thoroughly. < 1277938517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: ... Wait, they wanted to get it *written up*? < 1277938525 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We must write up THIS SOAP. It is medical." < 1277938530 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yep. < 1277938538 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people are reasonable, some people who are not reasonable insist on changing things so therefore progress depends on not reasonablepeple < 1277938546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At *most* they should demand consent from one of your parents. < 1277938556 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought paracetamol was not OTC in UK? Or at least, that's what I thought someone said in here? < 1277938560 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: All the comments are at the top < 1277938564 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1277938568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, I presume, would be quite easy. < 1277938571 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melatonin isn't < 1277938577 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!hc < 1277938582 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!hc x < 1277938583 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, why are you so concerned? < 1277938586 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!he x < 1277938587 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`x < 1277938591 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ffg < 1277938592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, ehird'smother? Yeah, y'mind him taking hydrocortisone cream? No? Okay." < 1277938595 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1277938615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am just interested what some people opinion are. I suppose people who do not understand C codes it can be confusing that nobody can understand. < 1277938616 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!he addquote Some people are reasonable, some people who are not reasonable insist on changing things so therefore progress depends on not reasonablepeple < 1277938616 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Some people are reasonable, some people who are not reasonable insist on changing things so therefore progress depends on not reasonablepeple < 1277938618 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :192| Some people are reasonable, some people who are not reasonable insist on changing things so therefore progress depends on not reasonablepeple < 1277938648 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best phrasing of that quote ever. < 1277938664 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't my quote at first I just rewrote it < 1277938666 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Did I mention I have to go to bed at 10pm? Sigh. < 1277938672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Ouch. < 1277938678 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: And made it AWESOME. < 1277938684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: OK. < 1277938687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i see the original < 1277938689 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then up at 7... pain... < 1277938709 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't know how to find the original right now < 1277938711 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Google "all progress depends on unreasonable man" < 1277938720 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!google all progress depends on unreasonable man < 1277938721 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://google.com/search?q=all+progress+depends+on+unreasonable+man < 1277938722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: "Early to bed early to rise", eh? < 1277938739 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Shut up Franklin. < 1277938749 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: And if they find you have an iPhone, they'll eat it? < 1277938750 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277938751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1277938772 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Confiscate and probably discipline and monitor closer. < 1277938779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 left out the part where the reasonable people adapt < 1277938789 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume that was what made it awesome < 1277938803 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just everything < 1277938831 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the reasonability is a bit of a non sequitur in the beginning.. wait, i guess it's not a sequitur if it's before? < 1277938863 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, and they have the audacity to give me "home"work while locked up here. < 1277938874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of homework < 1277938875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: How inane? < 1277938878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it about symbolic dynamics < 1277938885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i know a bit about that stuff < 1277938889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could help you < 1277938900 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Find the area of this shape —GCSE" < 1277938914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, ugh. < 1277938930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the busywork that they could've reasonably taught to a 5 year old. < 1277938931 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the dirac measure < 1277938933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's really easy < 1277938956 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I fail surprisingly often at because I'm not given a calculator and mental arithmetic is so tedious that I cut corners. < 1277938970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take the integral. Smart enough to impress, stupid enough that they'll know what it is. < 1277938988 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY DO NOT KNOW WGAT AB INTEGRAL IS DUDE < 1277939000 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't be retarded < 1277939010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh, right. Most people don't know calculus. < 1277939012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integrals are hard, much easier to use the definition of lebesque measures directly < 1277939014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, wait, why do they need to give you GCSE questions? < 1277939022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you will excuse me, I'm going to go be depressed. < 1277939039 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only half decent teacher is the IT one that travels in here on Tuesdays. Who can, you know, differentiate. < 1277939043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said all comments was at the top, but I am wrong. There are some comments in argopt_get also but only "// Set defaults" and "// Load options" < 1277939050 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm 14. < 1277939059 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do the mental arithmetic. < 1277939070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can he actually differentiate or does he remember what the string substitution is for polynomials and a few other functions < 1277939077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet he doesn't know shit < 1277939079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Could you at least do something like start from sets and define geometry and then calculate the area from there? < 1277939083 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the latter. < 1277939093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Starting from 3 axioms, I shall compute the area." < 1277939101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, are they that stupid? < 1277939113 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They have their standard "blah you need to be able to do this" line. < 1277939119 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: To what? < 1277939121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why would he know? < 1277939125 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1277939128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Most everyone only knows the string substitutions, yeah. < 1277939132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean stupid enough to give that kind of homework or wht < 1277939133 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what < 1277939141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: BTW, they're expecting you to do arithmetic on paper. < 1277939150 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know. < 1277939164 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is still UNIMAGINABLY BORING. < 1277939189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, do they not give numbers that make for easy arithmetic? < 1277939191 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers are rather boring < 1277939206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, because there would be no challenge then! :D < 1277939209 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, it's easy. Just so tedious. < 1277939211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxD < 1277939213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most such things I've had experience with tend to go for easy, easy multiplication. Powers of 10 and the like. < 1277939233 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1277939233 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1277939233 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1277939243 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like 3.2 * 5.3 * 4 which is not hard of course. < 1277939246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, then, I last did geometry for class when I was, oh... 12. < 1277939252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: That's cruel. < 1277939261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not because it's hard but because, well. Fuck that shit. < 1277939272 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you know, I don't have intimate familiarity with long multiplication because it sucks. < 1277939289 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fat juicy cocks, it sucks. < 1277939305 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never seen geometry done at all rigorously, i hear it's really boring < 1277939307 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The geometry was too easy so MULTIPLY! < 1277939316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1277939323 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one paper about how math is taught wrong < 1277939324 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: read Euclid :P < 1277939338 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277939338 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277939346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, what sort of shapes are we talking about? < 1277939361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It's taught in a manner that would make Euclid laugh at how basic it is. < 1277939362 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1277939365 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277939373 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1277939373 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it said geometry is done, in whatever country the writer was in, rigorously in the sense that they used a few axioms and shit < 1277939373 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: not very rigorous afaik < 1277939373 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the axioms are mostly for guiding intuition < 1277939376 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277939376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and new ones are added without proof when useful < 1277939376 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A +! An H! A rectangle with a zigzagging side! < 1277939378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pretty impressive considering how far math has moved in the past, oh, 2000 years. < 1277939389 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Do you have any access to books? Or would reading be considered subversive? < 1277939390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Sorry, connection error] < 1277939400 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't read it < 1277939417 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I could ask to go to the library or bring in my own. < 1277939418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: So fucking tedious. < 1277939433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: yes what journals do they have access to < 1277939433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Now for the depressing bit: people actually think math is THE ABILITY TO COMPUTE THAT STUFF. < 1277939447 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why reduce my enjoyment of a boom by Reading it tired and depressed? < 1277939451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY THINK THAT MATH IS COMPUTATION. < 1277939459 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*book *reading < 1277939469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, surprised? < 1277939475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's so depressing i'm not bothered by the fact saying that has been done to death. that's pretty depressing. < 1277939489 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "I'm a very visual mathematician." -one of the teachers < 1277939490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It has been said a lot, sure. < 1277939491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You barely touch real mathematics in school. < 1277939491 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are confusing math with doing math? I suppose it is easy to get confused if you do not understand < 1277939495 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a lot of people do not understand < 1277939495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's true and AARGH < 1277939503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is weird is i still have to explain it to everyone < 1277939507 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this word "arithmetic" that no one uses. < 1277939519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even people i've already explained it to < 1277939520 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even "doing math" does not always involve computation < 1277939521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't believe me < 1277939526 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include ? What bullshit! < 1277939539 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no math in math.h. < 1277939540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Calculus is really where actual math starts in school, yeah. < 1277939546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had a penny for every time someone has said "Hey, you're good at maths, right? What's the square root of pi?" < 1277939552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even then, they try their hardest to make it just computation. < 1277939563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be able to throw them at people who asked that wort of question. < 1277939569 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm a very visual mathematician." -one of the teachers <== just gonna repeat this forever < 1277939570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I took calculus class in school < 1277939586 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I like how numbers *look*. < 1277939594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What exactly does it mean to be "a very visual mathematician"? < 1277939607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: i'm a very visual mathematician too < 1277939632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Ask him about some nice and beautiful 4D shapes. < 1277939642 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Substitute "arithmetician" for "mathematician", then substitute "idiot" for the entire sentence. < 1277939655 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go. Keep on keepin' on... < 1277939657 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1277939659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just something simple like "How d'you like them hypercubes?" or "Man, Klein bottles are awesome, aren't they?" < 1277939665 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do not insult the ~womanly maths/art teacher~ < 1277939675 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Maths and art. < 1277939675 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: OK...? < 1277939675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll grant that this hardly even touches on anything at all, but still. < 1277939677 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woooooooo < 1277939681 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is art < 1277939691 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's science and it's art < 1277939696 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet it's neither < 1277939698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's magic < 1277939705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally i love math < 1277939713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me give you some definitions < 1277939717 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abortion would be art for this moron >_> Ohh I went there < 1277939741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine a mathematically inclined person doing well in art. But this is apparently a computationally inclined person. < 1277939741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definition kurka gives for quasiperiodicity is as follows, although let me refresh your memory on dynamical systems first < 1277939745 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes I am suggesting she remove herself fro < 1277939752 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m the gene pool) < 1277939763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we assume a simply system, compact metric space X with a continuous function f supplying the dynamics < 1277939768 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: She didn't understand negative exponents. < 1277939783 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She doubly didn't understand non-integral ones. < 1277939794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a point x is quasiperiodic if, given any neighborhood U of x, there is such a p that f^jp(x) \in U for all j < 1277939798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Oh dear god. And this woman is *teaching* computation? < 1277939815 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: tiuq\ < 1277939816 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ^_^ < 1277939829 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Does that mean some people have to eat her arm and other people have to do scientific experiment with her blood? Or does it mean she has to go to the moon and die from lack of air? < 1277939832 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definition of almost periodicity in kurka's book, and curiously the definition of quasiperiodicity in tilings and patterns literature, goes as follows: < 1277939839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly she should be *taught* computation. < 1277939847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least mathematics. < 1277939852 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ooh, how do i decide?!?! < 1277939862 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're both so appealing... < 1277939873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277939875 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I don't know. You decide using the method you want to choose how to decide. < 1277939878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a point x is almost periodict if, given any neighborhood U of x, there is such a p that given any n there is a 0 <= k < p such that f^(n+k)(x) \in U < 1277939889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have a bound on the return times < 1277939899 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Can't we do both? < 1277939901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see what you've been talking about < 1277939916 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: OK, do both if that is what you prefer! < 1277939929 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1277939962 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Break into my room to tell me what knuth announces k < 1277939987 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rhe window doesn't open much you'll have to s < 1277939992 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :break it < 1277939996 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*The < 1277939999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277940000 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*much, < 1277940004 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no s < 1277940018 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info < 1277940018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be interested to see someone who thinks they know math but doesn't < 1277940021 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interesting < 1277940026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1277940032 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Why don't you just use morse code, and then you don't have to break the window, whoever is inside can open it. You only need to break it if there is nobody inside < 1277940038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might actually try to follow when i start lecturing < 1277940039 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that you don't have the key. < 1277940044 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277940046 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sentient egg-timers < 1277940049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe it would be better to pick the lock instead? < 1277940062 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: On ... What? < 1277940071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the door next to the window < 1277940072 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a mental institution... < 1277940084 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no such door. < 1277940090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could one of you define something now? there's a lot of forth but very little back here imo < 1277940105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: O, that is why there is no reverse DNS...... OK. < 1277940114 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Wat < 1277940120 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on an iPhone :P < 1277940126 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your connection shows no reverse DNS < 1277940131 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd. M < 1277940137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be interesting to be in a mental institution < 1277940144 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially trying to get out < 1277940147 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe i'm just hallucinating zzo38 < 1277940150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also the crazy people < 1277940154 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Its not. < 1277940171 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have powers far beyond locks. < 1277940193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's the challenge < 1277940199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is not to try to run out < 1277940208 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evade sectioning? < 1277940212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is to trick them into thinking your sane < 1277940214 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277940216 0 :TokeyTheBong!~welcome@174-25-155-107.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277940216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you're < 1277940221 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you figure out how. Let me know. < 1277940224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277940238 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make up a text-adventure game? < 1277940247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i'd ever get out of a place like that < 1277940252 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE MEDICATION < 1277940253 0 :TokeyTheBong!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277940259 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPEN WINDOW < 1277940265 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The window doesn't open. < 1277940269 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREAM < 1277940283 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open the ceiling < 1277940287 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are in a straitjacket. Men are comforting you. < 1277940297 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Die < 1277940310 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have no means of suicide. < 1277940314 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dye < 1277940326 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they removed his teeth? < 1277940330 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or pigmenting. < 1277940341 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wat. < 1277940342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1277940350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" You have no means of suicide." < 1277940354 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you suggesting I... gnaw my leg off? < 1277940362 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277940370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a crazy person should be able to bite somewhere important < 1277940378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277940382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnaw your leg off < 1277940389 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy != flexible < 1277940392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNAW LEG OFF < 1277940407 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN'T REACH < 1277940408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, you don't have to be flexible to be able to put your foot in your mouth < 1277940409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnawing a leg off: a widely recognized sign of sanity. < 1277940421 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 fizzie < 1277940428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how many of you bit your foot just now?) < 1277940434 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Leg != foot < 1277940450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both easily reachable though < 1277940455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't eat my foot. I bite my arm sometimes < 1277940463 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do it < 1277940469 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't eat my foot < 1277940475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like biting my big toe and letting my leg rest in the grip < 1277940475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is too far away < 1277940481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277940483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not completely < 1277940487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would hurt < 1277940493 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a bit < 1277940500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sorry, I don't know how to EAT FOOT." < 1277940512 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of your foot being far away. < 1277940525 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my feet taste like pee < 1277940533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should go to sleep < 1277940539 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks oklopol < 1277940543 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to eat your foot either because you probably need your foot for walking < 1277940543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277940544 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice to know < 1277940551 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a lie, actually < 1277940561 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they taste like pee < 1277940565 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: thought you said wanking, was a bit confused < 1277940580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might need some flexibility < 1277940602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hmm i guess not < 1277940604 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use my to masturbate! < 1277940608 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spine < 1277940652 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 hours 30 minutes sleep time left < 1277940652 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about masturbate. But I need to walk and write and so on < 1277940679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are important things < 1277940702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they are both more important than masturbation < 1277940710 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sex or the ability to walk?? < 1277940715 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer quickly < 1277940716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing slightly more important than walking i think < 1277940720 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277940723 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't answer that quickly < 1277940730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex probably < 1277940737 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know < 1277940741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277940747 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on people. Different people have different opinion and it has to be that way < 1277940758 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll saw off your legs then oklopol < 1277940761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277940764 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got it < 1277940769 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not I would kill your gf so yeah < 1277940773 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you there < 1277940774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277940779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you'd saw off my dick < 1277940788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i can always get a new gf < 1277940793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can't get a new dick < 1277940793 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could turn gay < 1277940798 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277940799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1277940799 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bottom < 1277940802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277940808 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or strapon < 1277940826 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Ill just saw off your entire genital area < 1277940837 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then superglue the legs back on < 1277940841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1277940848 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy your colostomy < 1277940878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my granpa died of colon cancer or something so maybe it would be safer that way? < 1277940910 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I could just cut off your balls < 1277940921 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No testosterone, no sex drivw < 1277940929 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*drive < 1277940959 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277940978 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi pikhq weve been talkijg abiut castration < 1277940994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's how it works < 1277941006 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it!??????? < 1277941011 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12345567890 < 1277941012 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Perhaps you can read log file and then you will know < 1277941022 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you write 5 twice? < 1277941023 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot the wrong < 1277941032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION spotted
< 1277941039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the 0 < 1277941041 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you spot tjhe wrong! Yay jx < 1277941042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be in the beginning < 1277941050 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: NO I UAE KEY BIARS < 1277941060 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If has fhe numbras thus manner < 1277941073 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12374(6890 < 1277941087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now that looks even more weirder. < 1277941094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol seriously i have to go < 1277941100 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO < 1277941102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things are making less and less sense < 1277941106 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01928374()!!?.£i882 < 1277941111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could someone define something first tho? < 1277941112 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE GO < 1277941113 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyat is correkf order < 1277941122 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Defibe. Xhixjeboiz < 1277941128 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just define chichkenpoz < 1277941130 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pox < 1277941134 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jees oklopol < 1277941137 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE TO "OAIJWEG9MPAJ4WTMPOI4JTLZSV0I0JH4T" AT FIRST < 1277941143 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shats tiur anti face < 1277941144 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277941168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're BAD friends. < 1277941170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1277941181 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Aditionsly I agree but what I'd we dud open up the universpectrummy < 1277941189 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(j/k <3 u) < 1277941209 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I don't know. < 1277941418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I quit. < 1277942336 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ggg < 1277942389 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night, bye < 1277942394 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info