in their code listings
< 1276547577 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which handily breaks my global setting of "white-space: pre-wrap"
< 1276547631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They want to save on bandWIDTH costs, ehe-eeh-he-eh-hee.
< 1276547642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry.)
< 1276547646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1276547735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "data:text/html,%3Chead%3E%3Cscript%3Efunction%20q()%7Bdocument.a.b.innerHTML='%3Coption%20value=%22y%22%3Ex%3C/option%3E';%7D%3C/script%3E%3C/head%3E%3Cbody%3E%3Cform%20name=%22a%22%3E%3Cselect%20name=%22b%22%3E%3Coption%20value=%22x%22%3Ey%3C/option%3E%3C/select%3E%3C/form%3E%3Ca%20href=%22javascript:q();void(0)%22%3Etest%3C/a%3E%3C/body%3E"
< 1276547737 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now I have an exception for support.microsoft.com pre.code as well as developer.apple.com pre.manpages
< 1276547743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bit betwen the quotes is the URI
< 1276547749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IE8 accepts data: URLs, doesn't it?)
< 1276547761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Have some funny-looking sunlight: http://zem.fi/~fis/kazoom.jpg
< 1276547764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think IE8 does
< 1276547768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not other IEs
< 1276547776 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But XChat doesn't like copy/paste
< 1276547789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to logs

< 1276547790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet doesn't autolink data: URIs?
< 1276547796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://data:text/html,%3Chead%3E%3Cscript%3Efunction%20q()%7Bdocument.a.b.innerHTML='%3Coption%20value=%22y%22%3Ex%3C/option%3E';%7D%3C/script%3E%3C/head%3E%3Cbody%3E%3Cform%20name=%22a%22%3E%3Cselect%20name=%22b%22%3E%3Coption%20value=%22x%22%3Ey%3C/option%3E%3C/select%3E%3C/form%3E%3Ca%20href=%22javascript:q();void(0)%22%3Etest%3C/a%3E%3C/body%3E
< 1276547801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete the http:// once it's in your browser
< 1276547812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Cheers
< 1276547817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I copy/pasted from logs
< 1276547822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1276547823 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The webpage cannot be displayed"
< 1276547837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it doesn't like data: URIs after all, maybe that's IE9
< 1276547838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_URI_scheme there are some restrictions in IE8's support for them.
< 1276547857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll pastebin the HTML, so you can save it locally and run from there
< 1276547907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/raw/1883125
< 1276547974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ^
< 1276547979 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1276547985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1276547989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To help protect your security, Internet Explorer has restricted ..."
< 1276548000 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up sweeties <π
< 1276548008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh, right
< 1276548016 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I unblocked it
< 1276548017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE considers scripts on your own computer untrustworthy by defaults
< 1276548022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's supposed to happen?
< 1276548024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but scripts elsewhere on the internet trustworthy
< 1276548032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you click the link, the dropdown's meant to change from y to x
< 1276548042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It went blank
< 1276548052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's the symptom of the same bug
< 1276548068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like I should condition the fix on being any version of IE, then
< 1276548079 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<= 8
< 1276548095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the bug's persisted since IE5
< 1276548101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I assume by default that it'll be fixed come IE9?
< 1276548119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it wiser to assume that IE9 will also screw this up?
< 1276548127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about IE12?
< 1276548154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps
< 1276548171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alternative would be testing somewhere in a display:none area of the page
< 1276548180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me to never become a web developer doing frontend stuff
< 1276548188 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's wiser to assume a bounded number of releases fail
< 1276548200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question just becomes what bound you guess ;-)
< 1276548202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they could call the tenth one IE-X?
< 1276548208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's X-X-Xtreme.
< 1276548208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is IE9 beta out yet?
< 1276548230 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They have to, because 1 < 9 and IE10 would break a lot of stuff
< 1276548241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless they just want to lie in their user-agent like Opera
< 1276548259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 3.95? Windows 6.1?
< 1276548288 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 6.1 = Windows 7
< 1276548306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and windows 3.95 = windows 95
< 1276548316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's XP?
< 1276548322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.0 IIRC
< 1276548323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.1
< 1276548327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right
< 1276548331 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 4.0 is Windows 4.0
< 1276548338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT_4.0
< 1276548340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's ME?
< 1276548351 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.9 I think
< 1276548360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.9 I also think.
< 1276548368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft chooses version numbers for Windows that minimise the number of badly-written applications that crash on the version number
< 1276548375 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.90, actually
< 1276548380 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which may or may not be different
< 1276548389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be somewhat interesting to see what Windows 8 will be "in reality".
< 1276548409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not call Windows 7 Windows 6?
< 1276548421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or why use 6.1 for 7's version number?
< 1276548429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they picked 7 just to have a nice-sounding name, IIRC
< 1276548438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vista was 6.0 already, so it can't be "Windows 6".
< 1276548449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was that "Why 7" article.
< 1276548452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not 7.0 for the version number
< 1276548462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's not different enough to Vista
< 1276548468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/archive/b/windowsvista/archive/2008/10/14/why-7.aspx
< 1276548472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Version_Number
< 1276548473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because of the number of applications written for Vista that refuse to run on anything but "windows 6"
< 1276548484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nutty.
< 1276548489 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there still apps like that?
< 1276548491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1276548495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mistake happens year after year
< 1276548499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Microsoft keep pandering to it
< 1276548499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think that these days, apps have cleverer detection
< 1276548502 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh
< 1276548533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The API shouldn't allow detection of the version of Windows, maybe
< 1276548541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have to: backwards compatibility
< 1276548555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe apps just shouldn't try to detect
< 1276548564 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because 15-year old apps do it, you have to allow it
< 1276548567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no app I know of, other than some drivers, tries to detect a Linux version
< 1276548576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they shouldn't
< 1276548579 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they do, so you're screwed
< 1276548602 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wawait
< 1276548603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exploits usually check uname first, I think
< 1276548608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 3.1 == Windows NT?
< 1276548612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1276548619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two entirely different codebases
< 1276548624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is derived from the othe
< 1276548626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*other
< 1276548627 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a Windows NT 3.1, though
< 1276548636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Windows NT is a kernel, compared to Windows 3.1 which is a full OS
< 1276548673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows NT is also a (family of) full OS(s)
< 1276548717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't Windows Server the OS?
< 1276548733 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Server is a number of OSs
< 1276548756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, for example, Windows NT 3.1 was an OS.
< 1276548763 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was just called "Windows NT" back then.
< 1276548848 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276548970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a fair bit of arbitraryness between marketing names and numbers there. The non-server side went Vista -> Windows 7 and code-versions 6.0 -> 6.1, while the 6.0 server was "Windows Server 2008" and the 6.1 is "Windows Server 2008 R2".
< 1276548990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1276549064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if Windows 8's server counterpart (released in 2012 or so, most likely) will be "Super Windows Server 2008 R2 Turbo".
< 1276549078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1276549132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hell does Opera install a system tray icon?
< 1276549152 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you know when it's running
< 1276549153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only while running, though
< 1276549166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Windows, I wouldn't notice, but in Linux, that's crazily out of place
< 1276549242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat does that.
< 1276549258 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does RhythmBox.
< 1276549275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And quite a few KDE apps.
< 1276549326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one Gnome music thing.
< 1276549329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banshee.
< 1276549345 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1276549366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It makes some bits of sense since it's somewhat useful for controlling the player without bothering to look at it. And it's optional.)
< 1276549408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, Konversation does it optional as a visible highlight, that's what I use it for
< 1276549430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for Rhythmbox it makes sense because it's the sort of program that you probably want to minimize to the system tray
< 1276549449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bittorrent clients have a habit like that too.
< 1276549451 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276549612 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@81.253.10.120 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276549681 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-205-116.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276549788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder why Ubuntu Software Centre can't uninstall software installed directly from the .deb?
< 1276549796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used dpkg to uninstall it, in the end
< 1276549828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly they want to discourage you from bypassing the Software Centre.
< 1276549843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they already put commercial apps in the Centre?
< 1276549847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Opera isn't in the Software Centre (non-free, after all)
< 1276549851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they don't yet, they're planning to though
< 1276549865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few non-free apps there, like the Flash installer
< 1276549865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember it was supposed to become an App Store-ish thing.
< 1276549878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what criteria they use to decide whether to put something there
< 1276549897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the webapp worked straight off in Opera (I'd already checked Firefox, IE6, and Chromium)
< 1276549907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I uninstalled Opera because it was too annoying
< 1276549916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never known a browser to get on my nerves in less than a minute, even IE doesn't do that
< 1276549925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who use the software center?
< 1276549930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use apt-get or aptitude
< 1276549936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes synaptic
< 1276549957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the interface is a lot nicer than synaptic, and the featureset is catching up
< 1276550002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if he is going to bother storming out in indignation if they make the Software Centre into an app store.

< 1276550004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so you can search for packages  like libmudflap0-4.3-dev?
< 1276550018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it like the old gnome thingy that it just show "end user" apps?
< 1276550024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in the latter case it is worthless
< 1276550024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed chromium (for some reason I don't quite recall), and suddenly my "sensible-browser" became it. Apparently it's because both "firefox" and "chromium-browser" are alternatives to gnome-www-browser, with the same priority (40).
< 1276550037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 also I find synaptic very lacking. doesn't even allow regex search
< 1276550041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typed in "libmudflap" and got a menu full of mudflap libraries
< 1276550054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, -dev and -dbg packages too?
< 1276550054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the one you mentioned
< 1276550056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup
< 1276550064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I'm not sure of the exact spelling
< 1276550066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just something like it
< 1276550069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is all I remembered
< 1276550081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you remembered right, as it happens
< 1276550087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1276550113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so does it allow you to mark a package installed as a dep as manually installed?
< 1276550117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use aptitude for it
< 1276550123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since synaptic doesn't seem to do it
< 1276550138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reverse of course
< 1276550146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to mark as manually installed, you just install the package
< 1276550152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite it already being installed
< 1276550154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC
< 1276550159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was with aptitude
< 1276550163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that iirc forces a reinstall
< 1276550169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1276550203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but aptitude is annoying, it wants to automatically remove "unneeded deps" right away
< 1276550223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer for that to be a manual action, especially during post-upgrade cleanup
< 1276550249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I managed to get rid of all the annoying stuff with the new gdm
< 1276550269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, your approach to managing a computer seems so much different from mine
< 1276550284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long live: DISPLAY=:0.0 sudo -u gdm gconf-editor
< 1276550295 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276550301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from a vt, logged in as root)
< 1276550309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with X at login screen)
< 1276550313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you mean?
< 1276550317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I hate splash screens
< 1276550334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the next step is to replace the ubuntu icon with the gnome icon for the main menu
< 1276550340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I very rarely spend time tweaking to that level
< 1276550369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't want the "user browser" of the new gdm. I just want username/password fields
< 1276550373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only real tweak I've done here is modifying the 'registry' to give me the window menu back and put the window close button in the correct corner
< 1276550373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better for security
< 1276550388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I done that too of course
< 1276550403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I changed login screen to clearlooks
< 1276550405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1276550413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks quite nice now
< 1276550419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and there is no splash at all
< 1276550429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the new pink/lilac stuff
< 1276550607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls
< 1276550608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1276550610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong window
< 1276550656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls
< 1276550666 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.4845 \ wunderbar_emporium
< 1276550792 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276550820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1276550821 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1276550851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file cube2.jpg
< 1276550852 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cube2.jpg: JPEG image data, JFIF standard 1.01
< 1276550878 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/cd0481bbc230/cube2.jpg if you want to see it.
< 1276550880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that cat.
< 1276550890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, couldn't figure out how to get the raw thing
< 1276550893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the UI
< 1276550913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "raw" link, bottom-most in the left side when viewing the file entry.
< 1276550915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice one
< 1276550925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wilwheaton.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c59aa53ef013484143d63970c-800wi
< 1276550936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, photoshopped I presume?
< 1276550953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The help.txt is not very helpful. :/
< 1276551020 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276551134 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuke the whales!
< 1276551142 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you alise
< 1276551156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very much a negative.
< 1276551575 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276552343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro!
< 1276552366 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover!
< 1276552376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1276552381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro!!
< 1276552391 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover!!
< 1276552403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonono.
< 1276552407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIBONACCI.
< 1276552417 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :(
< 1276552419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have RUINED it.
< 1276552436 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you, Leonardo
< 1276552530 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1276552730 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276553278 0 :iamcal!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276553392 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1276554391 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There must be something somewhere where you can input a C file online, then it will be compiled and you ca download it,
< 1276554418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there is.
< 1276554779 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@173-129-222-43.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276554825 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Blar why aren't you in #plof
< 1276555162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems the Twitter Fail Whale has a smaller filesize in gzipped CSS than it does as a .PNG
< 1276555178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.subcide.com/experiments/fail-whale/
< 1276555244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nicely eso idea
< 1276555252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: Because
< 1276555560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1276555905 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276555946 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276555991 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"common paranormal"
< 1276556022 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, those perfectly normal paranormal events.
< 1276556071 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I considered using that exact phrase, then decided it was too stupid :P
< 1276556529 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to see a language that looks like a normal programming language but isn't TC

< 1276556543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[C doesn't count, but I don't know how to properly express that]
< 1276556599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be fundamentally be unable to interpret BF
< 1276556672 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could define a language with the exact syntax of, say, Pascal, but with no semantics.
< 1276556710 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where, like, BEGIN Var := 5; END; is a perfectly valid fragment of code, it just doesn't mean anything.
< 1276556712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not what I'm going for either, really :/
< 1276556732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More in a style of subtle limitations, say, in how loops wormk
< 1276556734 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work
< 1276556775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... Total functional programming?
< 1276556788 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null
< 1276556792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like normal functional programming, except "bottom" does not exist.)
< 1276556849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe
< 1276556880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's more subtle than my idea of imperitive, with no while and a limited for
< 1276556917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can only compute terminating functions.
< 1276556940 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The imperative equivalent would be, only FOR loops, no WHILE.
< 1276556944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how does one mkae a total functional language?
< 1276556944 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276556956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Except that a for loop can do while.
< 1276556970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(; x;) is the same as while(x)
< 1276556970 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ... you know what I mean.  I hope.
< 1276556979 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not C's FOR.  That's not a FOR loop.
< 1276556987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. :P
< 1276556990 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, "Not C's for(;;)"
< 1276557009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just typoed "instruction" as "extrunction"

< 1276557036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you seen Idealized Concurrent Algol?
< 1276557046 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of it
< 1276557048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what I work with at Work, and sub-TC
< 1276557050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at work
< 1276557064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because it has no way to allocate infinite memory
< 1276557073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't at least one of Hofstadter's Bloop/Floop/Gloop triplet sub-TC, exactly with the "imperative but bounded loops only" thing.
< 1276557075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor any way to do recursion (other than while loops, which are technically recursion)
< 1276557082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep, BLooP was
< 1276557088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLooP was TC, GLooP didn't exist
< 1276557098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rright.
< 1276557150 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1276557168 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"while loops, which are technically recursion"
< 1276557169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloop/Floop?
< 1276557195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlooP_and_FlooP has some examples.
< 1276557198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: computer scientists have a lambda-calculus-centred mind
< 1276557201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*centerd
< 1276557203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*centered
< 1276557211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus consider any form of looping to be recursion
< 1276557232 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276557255 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276557489 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, in case I didn't make it obvious previously, and I don't think I did, I added several languages-that-weren't to LoUIE: http://catseye.tc/cpressey/louie.html
< 1276557532 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/cpressey/louie.html#Goldbach doesn't quite qualify for what Sgeo is looking for, but is in the same spirit, maybe.
< 1276557548 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs work, though.
< 1276557559 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, or it wouldn't be on this list :/
< 1276557669 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Idea for the second one in the list: Instructions implicitly have N in an operand, where each instruction is the Nth character on a line
< 1276557728 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sorry, which one do you mean by the second one?
< 1276557744 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, wait, that's not the second
< 1276557746 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was scrolled down
< 1276557753 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, Seltzer Spigot, apparently
< 1276557819 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That would fit, I suppose.  I honesly have no ideas for that one, except that it should look like that :)
< 1276557860 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose colon would be a significant instruction of some sort
< 1276557961 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276557967 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you require that the snippet there be an actual valid program, or merely inspiration?
< 1276558006 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it would be *nice* if were an actual program, but no, I'd be quite happy if programs simply looked a lot like that, in general.
< 1276558087 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus points if it's a valid program, super bonus points if running it does something meaningful, too.
< 1276558129 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could make an HQ9+ variant :P
< 1276558179 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Points off for non-compositional semantics :|
< 1276558582 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I figure I'm under some obligation to write a Thue interpreter
< 1276558595 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm wondering what language to write it in
< 1276558615 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since C, Python, Java, and Javascript have been done
< 1276558619 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: could : be an end-of-line delimiter (like ; in c-like stuff)
< 1276558630 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it could, but that's boring
< 1276558649 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"boring"? :p
< 1276558727 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Well, the first three lines are just ":" in different columns
< 1276558743 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write it in the lambda calculus.
< 1276558759 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, whitespace is significant
< 1276558765 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ cpressey
< 1276558800 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: *gulp*
< 1276558821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serves me right for asking.
< 1276558834 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I need to be off.  Later, folks.
< 1276558843 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: I don't think lambda calculus is powerful enough
< 1276558851 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: why would it require colon if whitespace is significant? Surely the newline is enough?
< 1276558851 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1276558867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1276558887 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so that people can read it
< 1276558887 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody please `addquote :P
< 1276558915 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Gregor-P: I don't think lambda calculus is powerful enough
< 1276558918 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :181| Gregor-P: I don't think lambda calculus is powerful enough
< 1276558922 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: hrm, that's possibly a valid reason
< 1276559046 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1276559048 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118| Actually, he still looks like he'd rather eat her than have sex with her.
< 1276559088 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276559094 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: you can't do IO with just lambdas
< 1276559124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can, you just tack it on to a function as a side effect
< 1276559128 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO is always a side effect
< 1276559129 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, so we need the calculus of lambdas and monads.
< 1276559133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: have you looked at lazy-k?
< 1276559175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can encode a monad as lambdas too, if you want more than that
< 1276559250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and he is in my timezone... <-- *cackles evilly*
< 1276559256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck without PSOX isn't powerful enough to be a web browser
< 1276559272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's part of the reason I made PSOX >.>
< 1276559503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, well there is me behind the camera being reflected in the windo
< 1276559537 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276559547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok, we don't really mind if you're a ghost, we're all open-minded people here, except alise and he already hates you :D
< 1276559816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did AnMaster die in a helicopter crash after being involved with the mayor?
< 1276559835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't get the reference

< 1276559862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food ->
< 1276559900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://superosity.keenspot.com/w/20050502.html
< 1276559904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read this story arc
< 1276560350 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: does it have an end?
< 1276560361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The arc? Yes
< 1276560428 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last Sunday strip in the arc has Jon Heder playing someone
< 1276560449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ there are 4 weeks in the arc
< 1276560587 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1276560616 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1276560617 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1276561089 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276561225 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276561254 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276561486 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276561734 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276561957 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-18-63.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276562022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276562238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think that's more subtle than my idea of imperitive, with no while and a limited for
< 1276562273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's known to be the way to get only the primitive recursive functions
< 1276562321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like, no ackermann function, as well as everything terminating)
< 1276562450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other interesting sub-TC possibilities are there?
< 1276562506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's BlooP from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlooP_and_FlooP
< 1276562511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think)
< 1276562529 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, did you read the comic arc I linked?
< 1276562570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.  although i find that comic boring for the most part.
< 1276562578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1276562627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wait, don't tell me you're the author)
< 1276562634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not.
< 1276562650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could have been embarassing
< 1276562703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i've also seen some ideas on restricting recursion to achieve things like only primite recursive, only polynomial time or only logarithmic space
< 1276562727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is an admin for Wikisuperosity

< 1276562732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by dividing parameters into classes where you can only recurse in certain combinations
< 1276562735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1276562749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "for, no while" was already primitive recusive only?
< 1276562759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i guess time and space classes in general are examples of interesting sub-TC possibilities
< 1276562770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are these ideas?
< 1276562790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would "only recursive non-primitive-recusive" be possible/
< 1276562795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, this was a different way of achieving the same thing functionally rather than imperatively.  or so i think, the case i actually read was the polynomial time one
< 1276562875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: almost certainly not possible, you'll always top out somewhere _below_ all recursive, or escape to full TC.  in fact i think the "usual diagonalization techniques" work for showing that
< 1276562939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um or wait what do you mean, primitive recursive is a _subset_ of recursive
< 1276562965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, being able to do anything except the things within the subset
< 1276562972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, not anything
< 1276562976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you had only non-primitive recursive it would mean you _couldn't_ do absolutely trivial things, because those are subsets of primitive recursive
< 1276563002 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being unable to do trivial things, but being able to do .. more complex things, sounds fun
< 1276563010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's a way, but it seems unintuitive
< 1276563036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can usually reduce easier problems to harder ones
< 1276563060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if "everything not primitive-recursive" isn't doable, then try for a finite set not in primitive-recursive, maybe
< 1276563061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hardness is usually measured with something like reduction
< 1276563130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the thing i see is if you had any kind of composability you would be likely to be able to construct simpler things
< 1276563175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you don't have composability then you might just have a finite set of not really very related algorithms
< 1276563177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do not use as a pillow, toy, or floatation device"
< 1276563178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late
< 1276563195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you do now? :D
< 1276563208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used some packing material as a toy
< 1276563222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And kind of like a pillow
< 1276563227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bubble wrap?
< 1276563250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :airpouch.com
< 1276563255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows it's humanly impossible _not_ to use that as a toy
< 1276563299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh huge bubbles
< 1276563370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO USE IT AS A PILLOW YOU SHOULDN'T CALL IT "AIR PILLOWS" STUPID
< 1276563455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if anyone has ever used these as a floatation device..

< 1276563487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276563527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: after they made the warning, probably ;D
< 1276563528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if it's possible for a gas to not be buoyant in liquid

< 1276563619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia%3ABEANS)
< 1276563681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not stop chainsaw with hands or genitals
< 1276563720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well if the gas is heavier than the liquid - in fact isn't there this lake in africa that has huge amounts of gas stored in it
< 1276563741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(occasionally getting out and poisoning/suffocating people)
< 1276563796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos
< 1276563812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it doesn't count, seems like the CO2 is dissolved until it escapes
< 1276563873 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1276563879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho
< 1276563977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it is kept in the lower water layers by temperature difference and lack of mixing
< 1276564102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scitoys.com/board/messages/108/1447.html
< 1276564164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the second message is anything to go by, then even the heaviest gas (radon) is lighter than the lightest liquid (hydrogen).  assuming those actually _are_ heaviest and lightest
< 1276564267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_stocks
< 1276564406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that jimbo guy probably had it coming, anyhow
< 1276564448 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1276564605 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1276566535 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1276566771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/O! I/O! 'Tween code and world we go!
< 1276567087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
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< 1276569259 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276569347 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have you played Diplomacy?
< 1276569389 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1276569395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or anyone else)
< 1276569448 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read about it
< 1276569475 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should play online, but aside from that, I'd like to discuss with someone with experience
< 1276571415 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if it would make sense to write an MMO in Erlang

< 1276571620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would
< 1276572369 0 :augur!~augur@pool-108-56-52-74.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276572375 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, a more OO language would make more sense though?
< 1276572417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Nay, I have not
< 1276572439 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: why?
< 1276572455 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To represent various entities within the world
< 1276572954 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1276573388 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not familiar with Erlang, sorry :/
< 1276573404 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name crops up but still
< 1276573453 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yay, functional programming.
< 1276573620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: if you're going to avoid functional programming because it apparently can't represent objects, try Reia
< 1276573647 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I want Erlang for the hot-patching
< 1276573652 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And concurrency
< 1276573660 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1276573661 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot-patching?
< 1276573667 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, hot-swapping?
< 1276573671 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot-something
< 1276573710 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Reia is built on the Erlang VM
< 1276573712 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can patch it on the fly?
< 1276573727 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yeah I see, I just wikied
< 1276573731 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, there's also robozzle
< 1276573752 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite extreme with its minimal storage capability
< 1276573889 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.reia-lang.org/wiki/Reia_Programming_Language o.O Reia looks A LOT like Ruby
< 1276573901 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1276573901 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think that might be valid Ruby code
< 1276573933 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print is a private method in the string object, though :/
< 1276574011 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276574022 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to just return nil
< 1276574062 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1276574069 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you actually need to put stuff in the brackets
< 1276574145 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it directly links to Kernel#print
< 1276574160 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@173-129-222-43.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276574183 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a fun way to crash irb (interactive ruby interpreter)
< 1276574185 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object.send :private, :nil?
< 1276574190 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then try typing something
< 1276574401 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):010:0> String.ancestors
< 1276574401 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> [String, Enumerable, Comparable, Object, Kernel]
< 1276575140 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
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< 1276578384 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1276578592 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc
< 1276580154 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276582578 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pidgin no longer supports Win 9x
< 1276582593 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good riddance
< 1276582784 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized something.
< 1276582806 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could claim that alise is as obsessed with old versions of Windows as I am with old virtual worlds
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< 1276583470 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION double-checks that the lights are on

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< 1276590689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1276590883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. Japanese Internet memes are freaking amazing.
< 1276591070 0 :slsimic!~athlon@unaffiliated/gandalfthegrey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276591272 0 :slsimic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
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< 1276594008 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-63.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276599151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Did AnMaster die in a helicopter crash after being involved with the mayor? <-- ??? is this non-sequitur?
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< 1276609292 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
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< 1276609314 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello fellow humans
< 1276609333 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows mood?
< 1276609385 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1276609395 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so busy here
< 1276609395 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1276610128 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276610774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try turning up when I'm not at a seminar next time
< 1276612228 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276612505 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276612574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Did AnMaster die in a helicopter crash after being involved with the mayor? <-- ??? is this non-sequitur?
< 1276612597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely enough, not entirely.  see the later superosity link.
< 1276612614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost, but not entirely, i guess.
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< 1276615839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i agree that your goldbach language needs work - for one thing it's not hard to find arbitrary large even numbers that are sums of two odd primes
< 1276615873 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, and there's really no advantage to them being even
< 1276615889 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think, they just need to get larger and larger and execution progresses
< 1276615934 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276616011 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't someone here say they implemented Thue in Haskell?
< 1276616028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe
< 1276616056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be too hard, anyway
< 1276616156 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not at all.
< 1276616172 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except for the confusing things in the spec about how I/O symbols can be overridden
< 1276616204 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand, does that mean, if there is a ~~~ in the initial data, then I should *not* treat that as meaning "input" when it appears on a RHS?
< 1276616205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um is there something more than the esowiki says?
< 1276616223 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How else do I "override" ~~~ ?
< 1276616237 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I mean :::
< 1276616270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the same applies to ~foo I believe.
< 1276616280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki article contains no instance of the word "override"
< 1276616295 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John's doc does, though.
< 1276616301 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that would be definitive
< 1276616305 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as it is
< 1276616308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's that?
< 1276616329 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/thue/doc/thue.txt
< 1276616334 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on salafra's site i believe
< 1276616349 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that either (or both) of these implicit rules may be overridden by providing explicit rules that perform some other task."
< 1276616353 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then
< 1276616363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that means if you say ::::=foo you override input.
< 1276616370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1276616423 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many implementations correctly do that, esp for output, where I gather ~foo::=bar only overrides outputting foo
< 1276616589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if they start implementing from the wiki text, obviously they won't...
< 1276616700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this also means that ::: and ~output  should be triggered even if they are _not_ the entire right hand side of a rule, not?
< 1276616723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait for ~output that makes no sense
< 1276616765 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always though I/O in Thue smelled kind of funny.
< 1276616772 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thought*
< 1276616787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you apply something::=~output  to somethingwhoops  you would then print outputwhoops rather than output, or perhaps a nondeterministic initial string :D
< 1276616806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i already pointed out on the wiki that there is no way to avoid code injection with input
< 1276616858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was from my simplified understanding, if ::: and ~output are really implicit rules that _don't_ need to apply to a whole rhs then stuff gets utterly insane
< 1276616877 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I want to treat thue.c as a reference implementation, but there might be no other way to ENSURE TOTAL COMPLIANCE
< 1276616885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess ::: doesn't matter that much
< 1276616919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The specific effect is that all
< 1276616919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text to the right of the output symbol in the rhs of a production is sent
< 1276616919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the output stream.
< 1276616921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1276616946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it needs to be in an rhs then, although it's unclear whether the ~ must be at the start
< 1276616983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /ab
< 1276616984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1276616985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail
< 1276616987 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, in FvdP's implementation, the ::: can appear as initial data
< 1276616997 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it suggests
< 1276617006 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it triggers input
< 1276617056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know anything about water based computers? As a thought experiment I invented a simple (bidirectional) water transistor
< 1276617076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems quite easy to do both "nMOS-style" and "pMOS-style" btw
< 1276617141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall you can do computation with hydraulics
< 1276617141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to do a water diode, but iirc there are already some sorts of one-way water valves? Not sure how they work but they should be suitable
< 1276617163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm, doesn't that imply oil?
< 1276617177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hydr- is greek for water
< 1276617206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so why is it that hydraulics commonly use oil?
< 1276617242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can use any liquid, presumably
< 1276617257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hydraulics is a topic in applied science and engineering dealing with the mechanical properties of liquids."
< 1276617275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The word "hydraulics" originates from the Greek word .......... (hydraulikos) which in turn originates from ........ (hydraulos) meaning water organ which in turn comes from .... (hydor, Greek for water) and ..... (aulos, meaning pipe)."
< 1276617304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1276617348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I think my transistor will even model the leak current of electrical transistors quite well
< 1276617394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics -- I remember reading that page once.
< 1276617405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's linked from the sadly short "unconventional computing" article.
< 1276617560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that is quite interesting
< 1276617595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatics#Pneumatic_logic
< 1276617630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how reliable that amplifier is
< 1276617631 0 :hiato!~nine@dsl-245-52-07.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276617663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorteberg_relay
< 1276617705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I meant the fluid one
< 1276617708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the pneumatic one
< 1276617720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're sort of related
< 1276617723 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The word "hydraulics" originates from the Greek word .......... (hydraulikos) which in turn originates from ........ (hydraulos) meaning water organ which in turn comes from .... (hydor, Greek for water) and ..... (aulos, meaning pipe)."
< 1276617725 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daaaamn
< 1276617727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is way too relevant
< 1276617756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in fact the section before the pneumatic logic one contains a comparison of hydraulics and pneumatics
< 1276617757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, a disadvantage of using air as the computing medium would be that it is quite compressible (unlike a fluid).
< 1276617785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means the calculation probably will be slower since zero friction would be very impractical
< 1276617809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that is mentioned in that section too
< 1276617841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: too what?  (also *mwahahaha synchronicity*)
< 1276617845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to
< 1276617859 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hydraulics :P
< 1276617878 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting it to be some ridiculous thing. I mean obviously hydro is water, but it could have been like "water serpent"
< 1276617928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's hydra
< 1276617948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course you knew that)
< 1276617954 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh pff
< 1276617956 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're unhelpful.
< 1276617959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hydraulics -- powered by hydras with ulcers.
< 1276617979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway, I suggest using water logic (5 cm scale to begin with, in some years I suspect it might be feasible to reach the 5 mm scale!)
< 1276617982 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hydra-ulics
< 1276618032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would a water resistor look like?
< 1276618034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they _did_ mention nanotechnology
< 1276618045 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A valve.
< 1276618053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm :/
< 1276618063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wouldn't that be what a diod was?
< 1276618064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the small scale wetness (though not very logic-related), there's another Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfluidics
< 1276618074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, or possibly a zenner diode (spelling?)
< 1276618095 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can stuff water backwards through a valve, it's only pressure that forces it to go whichever way it goes.
< 1276618115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, can't you have one-way valves?
< 1276618122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, otherwise, how the heck do pumps work?
< 1276618139 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have one-way valves. They're called "one-way valves"
< 1276618149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yep, diodes
< 1276618156 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't referring to one-way valves.
< 1276618160 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to valves.
< 1276618160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah
< 1276618192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1276618245 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowait, my valve system isn't a resistor at all, it just trades "voltage" for current or vice-versa. A resistor is just a leaky bit of pipe.
< 1276618311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, for digital logic, one disadvantage of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fluidicamplifier.gif is that it would most probably have a rather high leakage flow on the "gate" (or what would be "gate" in MOSFET)
< 1276618379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that using a movable plug controlled by a small gate fluid might work better. That way the leakage would be very low. Either have complementary fluids to move it back, or a spring in the opposite end
< 1276618463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so your valve is more like a transformer then?
< 1276618495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it doesn't provide the isolation that a "normal" transformer does
< 1276618535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it is more like an autotransformer
< 1276618542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autotransformer)
< 1276619161 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276619410 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
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< 1276619534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know it's sort of hard not involving you in the recent Talk:Tubes discussion :D
< 1276619540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1276619543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, anyway
< 1276619551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki admins see all that goes on...
< 1276619591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know if the earlier 2,5 machine that's also sometimes mentioned has the same infinity issues?
< 1276619646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i noted the mathworld page linked to is inconsistent - it starts with saying tape should be finite and ends with your result
< 1276619678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the known proof for the 2,5 machine needs an repeating tape
< 1276619679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not sure where the 2,5 in the middle fits
< 1276619686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1276619686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that repeats one pattern infinitely to the left, and a different pattern infinitely to the right
< 1276619698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so similar to rule 110
< 1276619698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily make it work on a blank tape by adding a few million new states and an extra colour
< 1276619704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do the repeating in the turing machine itself
< 1276619717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's identical to R110 in that respect, which it emulates
< 1276619728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the repeating pattern is more complex as you have to allow for the turing machine to change direction
< 1276619742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it _does_ emulate rule 110?
< 1276619747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is actually a mistake in Wolfram's published proof of the 2,5 machine's completeness)
< 1276619759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, although the published proof in ANKOS is wrong
< 1276619765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1276619776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually pointed this out to Wolfram himself over the phone; he said does it work anyway and I said yes, so he said he wasn't bothered
< 1276619802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, excuse me i'll have to go revert a certain edit i recently did to wikipedia's UTM article *blush*
< 1276619910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if, say, the repeating pattern is 100 cells long, you need to do the first 100 steps of evolution of rule 110 from the pattern and use them as part of the repeating pattern on the initial tape
< 1276619911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it _was_ cook who proved 2,5 then?
< 1276619919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, cook proved rule 110
< 1276619929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if he was involved with the TM
< 1276619943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect he would probably have noticed that the naive encoding for the tape doesn't work if he was
< 1276619970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.  could you take a look at the last diff of WP:Universal Turing Machine?
< 1276619979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'd link you except :D)
< 1276619999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I'm already on the page?
< 1276620012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you censor irc links
< 1276620038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd leave the {{fact}} tag there
< 1276620051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entire situation is slightly murky, we could do with a reliable source rather than conjecture
< 1276620082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say that given an appropriate repeating initial tape, the turing machine simulates rule 110, because it does
< 1276620094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but AFAIK I'm the only person who's proved that, and I've never written the proof down
< 1276620110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I should probably write that proof down sometime, although it (should be) pretty easy to recreate
< 1276620114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't fit into a margin...
< 1276620129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll rewrite it to "based on the rule 110 automaton".  is it ok if i edit summarize as "Alex Smith confirms it _was_ based on rule 110"
< 1276620136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's OK
< 1276620190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the 2,3 machine has a really simple halting state
< 1276620212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the latest version of the proof, the halt state happens when the head goes to the left of its starting position
< 1276620226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can just use a semi-infinite tape if you like and get a halt state that way
< 1276620227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1276620276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally pretty routine, but more complex than that
< 1276620283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but once I realised I could make the halt state that, I couldn't resist
< 1276620654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.  i'll mention that on the Talk:Tubes page.
< 1276620818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to be referred to?
< 1276620834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine if you mention me
< 1276620849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I could even say it myself, but for some reason I haven't been in a wiki talkpage discussion mood recently
< 1276620913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm asking because i had the impression you're trying to keep connections of your real name with your nick rare
< 1276620973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's really about _how_ you want to be mentioned, too
< 1276621002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, just use one or the other, not both
< 1276621008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably realname in this case
< 1276621016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1276621137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you have holidays yet over there?
< 1276621158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the students are all on holiday due to post-exams
< 1276621164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you?
< 1276621166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not, though
< 1276621171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly any holiday for the staff, in theory
< 1276621176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1276621178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's rather slow and I'm spending much of my time at home
< 1276621201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so do you think you will have any time for feather, gcc-bf and so on during the summer?
< 1276621207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly
< 1276621212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not, I have thousands of projects
< 1276621220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hundreds, or possibly tens
< 1276621222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it feels like thousands
< 1276621236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1276621370 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1276621371 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1276621371 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1276621393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should just face it, you'll never have time for feather unless you go back in time and make it *ducks* (twice)
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< 1276621515 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1276621628 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo
< 1276621766 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1276621891 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
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< 1276625014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the topic?
< 1276625108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, do you not find it esoteric enough?
< 1276625139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the wrong sort of eso
< 1276625163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, news currently on the TV (which I'm not really watching) is all about China outsourcing vehicle manufacture to the UK
< 1276625180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a higher, enlightened perspective, there is no such thing as the wrong sort of eso
< 1276625215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait _to_ the UK?
< 1276625223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, It is a circle.
< 1276625246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes
< 1276625255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big news here, because loads of people are getting their jobs back
< 1276625294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, China's prosperous. :P
< 1276625349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it matters a lot to me because I live in an area which used to be all housing for vehicle manufacturing
< 1276625379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it went rather downhill after the plant closed, so it's nice to see it starting up again, it's possible the local streets will be filled with something other than vandals and joyriders
< 1276625402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goths and vandals
< 1276625452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nann ka yaxtute mo nann ka yaxtute mo EAMAN k`a taosenai yo!
< 1276625467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this has been pikhq attempting to convey rocking out over IRC and failing)
< 1276625480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is rocking out
< 1276625489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLbFctG3tw0&feature=related
< 1276625495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you do when listening to that.
< 1276625497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a phrase mostly used by teenagers years ago
< 1276625509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precise meaning is unknown, but it has something to do with certain styles of music
< 1276625528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: for a moment i thought you were quoting gothic there
< 1276625549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, bizarrely pedantic Japanese romanisation.
< 1276625555 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276625578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if I can't do Japanese input I can at least be more pedantic than *everyone else* who does romanised Japanese.
< 1276625605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the x for
< 1276625629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following encoded kana is small.
< 1276625648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1276625649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really more of a kana encoding scheme than an actual romanisation scheme. :P
< 1276625668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is xtut what you'd normally write as tt?
< 1276625694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in normal romanisation that'd be "nan ka yatte mo nan ka yatte mo eaman ga taosenai yo!"
< 1276625791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1276626097 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What about the "nann"
< 1276626187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ん
< 1276626193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm encoding as "nn".
< 1276626235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some possibility of ambiguity if you just use "n"
< 1276626241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1276626328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where?
< 1276626385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One can have vowels following that.
< 1276626441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got an example? I don't think I've ever run into that
< 1276626499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :雰囲気 ふんいき hunniki (fun'iki in Hepburn)
< 1276626531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though for god-knows what reason, it commonly gets pronounced as "fuinki"
< 1276626654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how funky
< 1276627066 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I think I've heard that one but never seen it written :-P
< 1276627081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least fuinki sounds familiar
< 1276627259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit more common spoken, I've found.
< 1276627812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Felis sum et ad furandum veni"
< 1276627826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am a cat and I have come to steal."
< 1276627832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that.
< 1276627843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I have come/I came/
< 1276627919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, my suspicion is confirmed: nobody has tried to speedrun Neverwinter Nights 1 (or 2 fwiw), neither regular or TAS
< 1276627949 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Latin comes from Science and Math Defeated.
< 1276628049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unless you mean the AOL game, there's a speedrun on youtube starting at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMnjuITemr8
< 1276628053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That depends on your definition of "tried"; there's at least one in Youtube.
< 1276628061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah.
< 1276628081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm
< 1276628088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just checking the main sites
< 1276628112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's some glitch I don't know about, NWN must be one of the worst games to TAS ever
< 1276628115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas this "youtube" is some sort of weird half-unknown underground site.
< 1276628116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up there with WarioWare
< 1276628190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: More like one of the hosting services for TAS videos.
< 1276628193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just start by using your friendly neighbourhood search engine; they tend to index speeddemosarchive.com and tasvideos.org in addition to the underground sites like youtube
< 1276628198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TAS? Ugh.
< 1276628205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly
< 1276628217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can imagine how bad a warioware TAS would be
< 1276628224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ironic, as people have actually tried
< 1276628231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the main issue is that you wouldn't see anything but the cutscenes)
< 1276628285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that speedrun's ridiculous, they put all their points into strength, charisma, and persuade; is this some new way to break the game I've never heard of?
< 1276628287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cutscenes *are* fairly amusing. But still. Unless there's some amazing glitches, not worth it.
< 1276628593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, so bizarre to see the cutscenes in that NWN speedrun
< 1276628603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play the Linux version, which is identical except it doesn't have cutscenes
< 1276628615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(instead, there's a text file containing the text they have, which is kind-of cute)
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< 1276634828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer!
< 1276635296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any mid-level languages like C other than C?
< 1276635354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all seem to be really low level or fairly high-level.
< 1276635495 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well?
< 1276635516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++?
< 1276635546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C with some high-level stuff tacked on.
< 1276635551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not other than C.
< 1276635557 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair
< 1276635563 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN?
< 1276635569 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pascal?
< 1276635591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pascal is pretty high-level, from what I remember.
< 1276635617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN, dunno.
< 1276635655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in the sense of "arrays are pointers" and such.
< 1276635954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering because I had this crazy idea of a non-C-based OS.
< 1276636119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just said something stupid, haven't I?
< 1276636185 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: c'est possible
< 1276636204 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the strictes sense, all os's are asm/machine code
< 1276636223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1276636252 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Windows actually written in?
< 1276636270 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody knows... dam dum dumb
< 1276636281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C, C++, asm
< 1276636284 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but judging by the numerous leaks, C
< 1276636388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X?
< 1276636400 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unix+stuff, so C
< 1276636401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Objective C for the most part.
< 1276636403 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly
< 1276636428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, all of the major OSes are on a foundation of C.
< 1276636449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because it's perfect for what it does
< 1276636455 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause it's this much [     ] easier than pure ASM
< 1276636456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly.
< 1276636467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier than ASM but abstracts very very little of it
< 1276636473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives control structures, mainly.
< 1276636494 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nice treatment of numbers and not having to remember operation names
< 1276636503 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also slightly harder to mix pointers and numbers
< 1276636520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is there another language which has C's level of abstraction?
< 1276636550 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There probably was once upon a time
< 1276636552 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, many HLA langs
< 1276636554 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it died to C beting better
< 1276636555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and nested expressions. Mustn't forget them.
< 1276636560 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High Level Assembly
< 1276636574 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HLAs abstract roughly to the same level but in a very different way
< 1276636602 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but "another language which has C's level of abstraction" is satisfied
< 1276636617 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I agree they're not quite at all like a true high level lang
< 1276636617 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed
< 1276636632 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even NASM macros are very flexible
< 1276636636 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM's IR is probably a rough example
< 1276636653 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although actually it's closer to machine than C
< 1276636656 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought NASM's macros were meant to be less insane than MASM's.
< 1276636690 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: perhaps, but there still remains very little one cant twist them into
< 1276636696 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even FASM isn't bad
< 1276636761 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unix_history-simple.en.svg to reinforce that OSX matter
< 1276636779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are control structures macroable?
< 1276636811 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so
< 1276636825 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using clever jump points
< 1276636843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1276636843 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how that's simple
< 1276636851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The diagram?
< 1276636854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or NASM?
< 1276636872 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the diagram
< 1276637006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way that it's orange at the start, and only becomes red later.
< 1276637008 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://chewy509.110mb.com/b0.html for exaple, going back once again in the history (my bookmarks number too many for me to scrape quickly :P)
< 1276637075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compound operations are nice, though.
< 1276637279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, lest I get the wrong idea, how do assembly labels translate into code?
< 1276637307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the .text, .data and .bss sections are shared between each instance of a program?
< 1276637380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes off to check.

< 1276637424 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that much I do not know, but as for labels, in the final pass the are transformed into memory pointers that are inserted in jump destinations, in the case of things like loop .main or jmp near .label and so on
< 1276637444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My earlier experiments suggest it.
< 1276637459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the main label is the same for all instances of a process.
< 1276637504 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never actually used compile ASM in an OS, so I actually have no clue about that side :P
< 1276637515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1276637524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you do in assembly, then?
< 1276637537 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to writing my own OS or raw cpu progs
< 1276637546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, cool.
< 1276637557 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you actually run raw CPU programs?
< 1276637558 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that environment, or lack thereof, very liberating
< 1276637571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every process has its own virtual address space, you can't deduce about physical-memory-sharing based on what addresses variables or labels get on runtime.
< 1276637579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I've always wanted to do that, but I can never work out how)
< 1276637587 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can fit the asm into 512bytes, write it as a boot sector to a floppy or vhdd or some such
< 1276637596 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah/
< 1276637612 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's more, find a fat bootlader (or write one) and let it start your prog from a medium
< 1276637680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resources?
< 1276637699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, RDOFF needs a use.
< 1276637883 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone point me to a nice stack based, perhaps RPN, esolang?
< 1276637995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc
< 1276638023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's AWESOME.
< 1276638075 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have conquered DC
< 1276638085 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and am looking for more :P
< 1276638091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FALSE?
< 1276638102 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess
< 1276638140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass is stack-based, sort of, but perhaps now quite the style you're looking for.
< 1276638154 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, fizzie http://ix.io/11Q
< 1276638183 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do?
< 1276638187 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never did look into glass, always looked rather complex
< 1276638190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's DC, right?
< 1276638194 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you tell me ;)
< 1276638195 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1276638196 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT
< 1276638201 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1276638209 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend you pipe it to a file, and kill it soon after launching
< 1276638228 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lest you get annoyed with all the data
< 1276638315 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is it a self-interpreter?
< 1276638327 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, now that's a nice idea
< 1276638353 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so what is it?
< 1276638358 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run it, and try guess
< 1276638372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives me a crapload of errors about Register 012.
< 1276638382 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy/paste fail
< 1276638392 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you running it?
< 1276638399 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo PROG | dc > out
< 1276638423 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276638425 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably on one line, I think
< 1276638426 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bam
< 1276638434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack empty, now.
< 1276638445 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover waaaa?
< 1276638447 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeatedly.
< 1276638469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, wget then.
< 1276638480 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I wonder what there is for VPS providers located in Sweden.
< 1276638491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, more register 012.
< 1276638506 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1276638512 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let me check
< 1276638513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPLAIN.
< 1276638574 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copy it into a text file, strip all the lines, then copy that
< 1276638581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1276638597 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then type echo "" | dc > out
< 1276638600 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then kill
< 1276638625 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then examine out
< 1276638630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pi in hex, then.
< 1276638632 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should be awesome
< 1276638634 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1276638698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, is there any particular resource for the CPU-level code you were talking about?
< 1276638745 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, short of example code (osdev.org springs to mind) and some asm tutorials, no, not really
< 1276638755 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not hard to pick up
< 1276638760 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming a knowledge of asm
< 1276638799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From where do you pick it up?
< 1276638849 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASM? Well, I learnt most of what I know from MikeOS (a simple 16bit OS), some tutorials (am scraping now) and osdev.org wiki
< 1276638918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not ASM. The other stuff.
< 1276638998 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The environment-less raw-cpu stuff? osdev.org, really, and the bootloader competitions they hold/held
< 1276639023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1276639093 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276639141 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell replace sub (l:ls)@str = if sub `isPrefixOf` str then sub ++ (replace sub ((snd.splitAt) (length sub) str)) else l:(replace sub ls)
< 1276639217 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; replace [] str = str; replace _ [] = []; replace sub (l:ls)@str = if sub `isPrefixOf` str then sub ++ (replace sub ((snd.splitAt) (length sub) str)) else l:(replace sub ls);
< 1276639230 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...psh, what am I doing.
< 1276639239 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question ;)
< 1276639346 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; replace [] _ str = str; replace _ _ [] = []; replace sub rep (l:ls)@str = if sub `isPrefixOf` str then rep ++ (replace sub rep ((snd.splitAt) (length sub) str)) else l:(replace sub rep ls); main = print $ replace "*" "$" "Hello I love *"
< 1276639371 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...need moar errors. -goes to ghci-
< 1276639557 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, why does osdev.org's main page redirect to "Expanded Main Page"?
< 1276639566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE ISN'T ANOTHER MAIN PAGE.
< 1276639631 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION applauds hiato's heroic dc.

< 1276639653 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[:
< 1276639809 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :osdev.org has always seemed a bit disorganized to me
< 1276639910 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note, for example, the giant link BACK to osdev.org, on the so-called Expanded Main Page
< 1276639936 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, how do you write multi-line strings in Haskell?
< 1276639946 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, they code is asm in this day and age.  i can't complain.
< 1276639988 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2006-January/013911.html ?
< 1276640064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, so bizarre to see the cutscenes in that NWN speedrun  I play the Linux version, which is identical except it doesn't have cutscenes <-- hm? free?
< 1276640077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope
< 1276640082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paid binary
< 1276640089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, is it single player?
< 1276640094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it's nice to see that some companies release linux versions of their game
< 1276640101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does both single player and multiplayer
< 1276640107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it doesn't have the toolset, I use WINE for that
< 1276640119 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You want str@(l:ls) and ((snd.).splitAt)
< 1276640156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm surprised that you play anything with 3D graphics!
< 1276640173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good game!
< 1276640189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Mesa's quite capable of handling it, even with Intel grahics
< 1276640191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*graphics
< 1276640195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly it's 7 or 8 years old
< 1276640217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but still. I didn't expect you to play anything with more modern graphics than 2D and that being rare.
< 1276640240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unless ASCII of course
< 1276640304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally dislike 3D games, yet my two favorite games are 3D.  Not FPP, though.
< 1276640332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, FPP?
< 1276640335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh first person
< 1276640339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what genre is that NWN?
< 1276640362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's D&D ported to realtime
< 1276640368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1276640373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, why does .rodata have to be in .text?
< 1276640376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hard game?
< 1276640377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :controls are vaguely like a third-person shooter, except it's common to pause if you can't type your commands in time
< 1276640380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what?
< 1276640387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget it.
< 1276640390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is a separate section?
< 1276640392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not massively hard, especially on easy difficulty, and especially if you don't mind respawning after death
< 1276640393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am confused.
< 1276640397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As hell.
< 1276640430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it might be next to .text, would make sense. Since both sections should be write protected. One (.rodata) should probably be no-execute too
< 1276640435 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We *totally* need hierarchical linker sections in object files.
< 1276640447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it doesn't save any memory in fact when either of them doesn't fill a complete page at the end
< 1276640455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.text.rodata.rodata.bss
< 1276640462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh.
< 1276640463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what would that mean?
< 1276640490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, also .bss would be a pain if not directly after data
< 1276640495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err .data*
< 1276640509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering you probably want to just load the binary as is into RAM mostly
< 1276640516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well into the process address space
< 1276640534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, dynamic linking messes the thing up anyway...
< 1276640613 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1276640614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, anyway .rodata.bss would presumably be read only data defaulting to zero?
< 1276640627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did the two .rodata cancel each other out?
< 1276640643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it would presumably be executable (.text)
< 1276640653 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I wonder if IRC connects multiple universes together.
< 1276640782 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"chomp          chomp!          chop          chop          chop!          chop!"  -- Ruby String class documentation
< 1276640841 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know what kind of doc-generation tool those folks are using, but it creates hyperlinks which have right-to-left character ordering... despite not being in Arabic
< 1276640962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, how do I use these damn floppies?
< 1276640965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Images?
< 1276641005 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h64.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276641020 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn "test"
< 1276641024 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1276641057 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah, rawrite in win/nix or just plain dd
< 1276641086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't have /dev/fd0
< 1276641091 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "
< 1276641093 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "
< 1276641120 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized there was no need for a replace function, though you could still make a quine using it.
< 1276641153 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet
< 1276641188 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1276641188 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276641299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, must dash.
< 1276641332 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "!haskell main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "
< 1276641335 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "!haskell main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "
< 1276641339 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I was just thinking about that.
< 1276641360 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember a lot time ago we had two bots that would make quines for the other bots command.
< 1276641363 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*long time
< 1276641492 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thinking about making a Haskell quine file with multiple different quine approaches
< 1276641511 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they'd have to also print all the other quine functions out as part of their code.
< 1276641735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1276641755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very, very weird listening to an acapella song with a chorus of "Ultraman! Ultraman Seven!"
< 1276641766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Very* freaking weird.
< 1276641915 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write about it in your blah.
< 1276641919 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blag
< 1276641920 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1276642157 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!~t7DS@189.79.112.229 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276642173 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1276642179 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ol�
< 1276642198 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1276642495 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo_
< 1276642504 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo
< 1276642852 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1276642869 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!~t7DS@189.79.112.229 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276643051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I shall write it in my blagoblogosphere!
< 1276643051 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276643294 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276643440 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1276644177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does NWN2 also exist for linux?
< 1276644184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1276644191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NWN1 is much better, anyway
< 1276644204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but worse graphics I presume?
< 1276644212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not massively
< 1276644227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NWN2 has worse graphic design
< 1276644235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so NWN1's are nicer-looking even if they're technically worse
< 1276644321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that rather depends on specific taste
< 1276645694 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276646008 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276646285 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1276647113 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h45.30.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276647201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE NOT PLAYING ENOUGH GORF.  PLAY MORE GORF
< 1276647207 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-81.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276647207 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1276647455 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276647491 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276647611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276648134 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1276648419 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1276648424 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is gorf
< 1276648472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question
< 1276648499 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gorf is an arcade game released in 1981 by Midway Mfg., whose name was advertised as an acronym for "Galactic Orbiting Robot Force".
< 1276648931 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h76.48.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276650251 0 :SevenInc1Bread!~adam@h151.52.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276650366 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1276650372 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1276650561 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276650585 0 :jabb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1276650591 0 :SevenInc1Bread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1276650635 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276650694 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h231.57.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276650766 0 :jabb!~grue@71.94.31.166 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276650829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, pretentious name
< 1276650879 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ?
< 1276650887 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what?
< 1276650929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, gorf
< 1276650956 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1276650959 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you'd meant me
< 1276650961 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;<
< 1276650976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, nah not really
< 1276651008 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok B<
< 1276651351 0 :jabb_!~grue@71.94.31.166 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276651558 0 :jabb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276651707 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276651843 0 :SevenInc1Bread!~adam@h193.6.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276651944 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1276652150 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1276652217 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276652481 0 :SevenInc1Bread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1276652600 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h35.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276652947 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1276653257 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1276653441 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276653731 0 :jabb_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276655059 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h245.5.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276656007 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276656690 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1276656830 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1276659707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276659734 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-192-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276660008 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I should switch to irssi
< 1276660992 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276661158 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does ais523 logread?
< 1276661240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so
< 1276661368 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1276661379 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there only one version of IE8?
< 1276661519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276661621 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276661742 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1276661841 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276662878 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276663446 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1276663988 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1088893966.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276664887 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1276664924 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1088893966.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276665758 0 :whtspc!~AndChat@62.140.137.108 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276665835 0 :whtspc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1276665948 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-243-179.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276667948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1276668921 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woooooo http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov1-wipp7.ogg
< 1276669079 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276670567 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null
< 1276671006 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276671967 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276673577 0 :slsimic!~athlon@unaffiliated/gandalfthegrey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276673599 0 :slsimic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276674013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276674733 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1276675199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1276675200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276676350 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276676503 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1276676600 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276677084 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276677089 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276677098 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276678214 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276679397 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276680846 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-120.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276681560 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276684140 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276684298 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1276684318 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1276684871 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null
< 1276685006 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1276688763 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276689436 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276689578 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1276689584 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1276693843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276693859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, everybody!
< 1276694310 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276694609 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan!
< 1276694738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mirage_Absorber!
< 1276694980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running out, huh?
< 1276695004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have _no_ idea what you are talking about
< 1276695015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should have kept a list of the ones he already used

< 1276695453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tests sarcasm detector

< 1276695472 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it isn't working.
< 1276695486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mwahahaha*
< 1276695628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you hear me?
< 1276695639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you hear me now?
< 1276695746 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now?
< 1276695749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you hear me?
< 1276695753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or read, or whatever.
< 1276695769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yes
< 1276695770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't discriminate against those with neural interfaces.
< 1276695797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how IWC's 20 questions game will turn out.

< 1276695815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i just had to drop the cheshire cat :(
< 1276695839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1276695875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i'd had it for more than one question anyway
< 1276695980 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276696823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://satansgoalie.deviantart.com/art/rainbows-are-metal-105457616
< 1276696834 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst misunderstanding of licences ever.
< 1276697162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if you can use the segment registers as general purpose registers.

< 1276697187 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably without making the memory model explode.
< 1276697227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general explosion registers.  recommended by Taliban, Hamas and Al-Qaeda.
< 1276697276 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov eex, america
< 1276697308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps mov [america], eex
< 1276697712 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although eex is equivalent to one of the 64-bit registers.
< 1276697776 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276697805 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-120.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276698281 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is turning into alise

< 1276698864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1276699805 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276699821 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276700526 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276700598 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276701095 0 :waga!5c564e16@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.86.78.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276701097 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1276701110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1276701135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if we should change the topic

< 1276701139 0 :Yandertal!~Yandertal@unaffiliated/yandertal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276701174 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just dived into the great world of eso langs

< 1276701191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1276701213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION always gets nervous when new people arrive and the topic is hideously misleading

< 1276701244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that we get _that_ many actual crystal healers here, anyway
< 1276701252 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1276701273 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the topic
< 1276701280 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the worst i have ever seen
< 1276701340 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should also add ufos
< 1276701345 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stupid
< 1276701352 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magnetic powers
< 1276701355 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shit
< 1276701372 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my aunt loves them. last time i visited her
< 1276701395 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love magnets too.
< 1276701403 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she told me that aprox 36000 of souls orbit the earth waiting for free bodies
< 1276701423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: that sounds rather low, actually
< 1276701449 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very useful things. Right now, I'm using a device that relies on dynamically created magnets for purposes of information storage
< 1276701463 0 :hiato!~nine@dsl-245-51-183.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276701496 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that nowaday´s our galaxy has entered a new in a new space region were we will be able to use our extrasenzorial powers
< 1276701508 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff
< 1276701510 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so she trains every day
< 1276701517 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^
< 1276701598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION immediately suspects someone confusing galaxy with solar system, as if that were the main problem here

< 1276701609 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this an esoteric languages programming channel? :S
< 1276701618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1276701623 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have i landed into some paranoic idiots
< 1276701624 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1276701625 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1276701627 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck
< 1276701630 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that proves it
< 1276701650 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love brainfuck
< 1276701658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: cpressey is famous here
< 1276701672 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I am? ... ok
< 1276701673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge and other inventions
< 1276701674 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just managed to do my first prog in it to copy one byte to another
< 1276701734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: this channel is off topic as often as not.  actual esoterica are somewhat rare, though, although there's the occasional technological singularity discussion and stuff
< 1276701788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen WE HAVE BOTS
< 1276701797 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :101 +++++++++++[>+>++++++++>++++++>+++<<<<-]>>-.>+++.>-.<+++.-------.<-.>++++.>.<---.<-------.+++++.-.<-. [662]
< 1276701807 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who?
< 1276701814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++[>+>++++++++>++++++>+++<<<<-]>>-.>+++.>-.<+++.-------.<-.>++++.>.<---.<-------.+++++.-.<-.
< 1276701823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1276701831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one less bot than usual, it would seem
< 1276701842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++++++++[>+>++++++++>++++++>+++<<<<-]>>-.>+++.>-.<+++.-------.<-.>++++.>.<---.<-------.+++++.-.<-.
< 1276701846 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE HAVE BOTS
< 1276701906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also HackEgo, and usually fungot.  EgoBot is the one with many esolangs in it, though
< 1276701945 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>,[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]
< 1276701952 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is it
< 1276701961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot would be the one actually _written_ in an esolang
< 1276701996 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION uses a fucking german computer with a fucking german windows and a fucking german kezboard lazout

< 1276702000 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i HATE it
< 1276702060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/german/norwegian/, here
< 1276702086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not the kezboard that's distinctly german :D
< 1276702141 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorrty
< 1276702160 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it´s absolutely different then qwery
< 1276702174 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it´s like using a esoteric computer
< 1276702194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's qwertz right?  thus the kezboard
< 1276702267 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on a Japanese keyboard with an English-locale Linux and an originally American (I think) keyboard layout
< 1276702303 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I love it
< 1276702310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no mention of your being finnish?
< 1276702334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, waga didn't state his nationality either
< 1276702369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1276702400 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am romanian
< 1276702407 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but born in canada
< 1276702511 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that helps...
< 1276702521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that only complicates things :D
< 1276702524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food ->
< 1276702612 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was born in canada too.  i'm in the us now.  and i use a completely normal keyboard.
< 1276702628 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too
< 1276702635 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except today
< 1276702636 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using a tiling window manager under ms windows, though.  that's got to count for something.
< 1276702643 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1276702676 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwm + cygwin?
< 1276702684 0 :Yandertal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Yandertal_work
< 1276702720 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something called "bug.n" written in something else called "AutoHotKey", some kind of send-msgs-to-windows-utility-language-thing.
< 1276702727 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :waga|bfing
< 1276702748 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1276702754 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use cygwin a lot, but not X under cygwin
< 1276702761 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autohotkey is a very ugly language
< 1276702768 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use linux and bsd
< 1276702788 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rarely win on my dad´s laptop
< 1276702789 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, AHK rivals the NSIS installer language for ugly.
< 1276702823 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows is mainly for work -- i have ubuntu or something on my laptop at home
< 1276702832 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a morse key that feeds into my cpu
< 1276702836 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and used to run freebsd religiously
< 1276702874 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276702875 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1276702894 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that, a magnet and a coil linked to some of my bus lines
< 1276702901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: i'm sorry there are too many nationalities here at present.  please try again later.
< 1276702903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: "Completely normal keyboard" varies by country
< 1276702960 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now asiekierka@077087179065.secretnorthkoreainternetaccessnetwork.cn

< 1276702966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you include the keyboards
< 1276703015 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you watched the North Coreea vs Brazill match?
< 1276703021 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1276703034 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my online friends commented it:
< 1276703038 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan was in it
< 1276703044 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At least they won't kill the babies of the North Korean players"
< 1276703046 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NKPD has given a goal
< 1276703058 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for shure
< 1276703071 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they usually have conferences
< 1276703073 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that
< 1276703089 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have to accuse one eachother
< 1276703099 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like Paranoia
< 1276703102 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the roleplaying game
< 1276703104 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh wait
< 1276703119 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are the flags of #esoteric +cn
< 1276703125 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know #esoteric was communist chinese
< 1276703137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you are not cleared for that information, citizen
< 1276703139 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1276703140 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we prefer DPR
< 1276703142 0 :Yandertal_work!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Correndo...
< 1276703151 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPRK
< 1276703159 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up, Friend Oerjan
< 1276703168 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276703171 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comrade oerjan
< 1276703179 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friend Oerjan
< 1276703182 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comrade oerjan
< 1276703184 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like Friend Computer!
< 1276703200 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW CAN YOU MISNAME FRIEND OERJAN!
< 1276703207 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? See how evil is he?
< 1276703211 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will anounce the local communist secret
< 1276703213 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ar
< 1276703227 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you are an enemy of our beloved
< 1276703232 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :country
< 1276703245 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, communist organizations are illegal
< 1276703248 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you're EVEN WORSE
< 1276703265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: clearly waga|bfing is the REAL evil communist mutant here
< 1276703266 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love kim jong il
< 1276703273 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obey him
< 1276703276 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1276703276 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: you've been a wonderful audience, goodnight
< 1276703281 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i belive in the juche laws
< 1276703286 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friend Oerjan! How can you still tolerate such behavior!?
< 1276703295 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and read all the 99999...999 books of the juche
< 1276703316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga|bfing: something tells me you are not quite acquainted with Paranoia
< 1276703345 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does acquainted and paranoia mean?
< 1276703360 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Possesing such information is treason, waga"
< 1276703361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mind you i've never actually played it myself)
< 1276703367 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i did but i didnt do much)
< 1276703370 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was fun though)
< 1276703373 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(via IRC)
< 1276703435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga|bfing: paranoia is a roleplaying game, about a dystopia ruled by a computer
< 1276703451 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where people are cloned
< 1276703453 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and babies kileld
< 1276703455 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killed*
< 1276703455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer, and therefore everyone else, is paranoid
< 1276703462 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sing with me http://www.korea-dpr.com/hana.wmv
< 1276703467 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it´s karaoke
< 1276703470 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^
< 1276703476 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer doesn't want anyone to plot against it
< 1276703487 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it banned anything that doesn't love and obey Friend Computer
< 1276703498 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including communism (even though Paranoia is very communist itself)
< 1276703578 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is
< 1276703581 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as people are cloned
< 1276703584 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genetic problems appear
< 1276703589 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everyone is a mutant and has a special ability
< 1276703606 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though (unless you tell friend computer you have one which is really useless because you're constantly watched then) they're banned too
< 1276703619 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are like
< 1276703623 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 secret organizatiosn
< 1276703625 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :organizations*
< 1276703635 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you mostly belong to one of these
< 1276703637 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all are illegal
< 1276703667 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.korea-dpr.com/users/thai/slides/IMGA2832.htm
< 1276703691 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including FCCC-P
< 1276703699 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pun intended)
< 1276703704 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a Friend Computer-obedient organization
< 1276703708 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they're also illegal
< 1276703713 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get out with a slap on a wrist
< 1276704338 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me an esoteric lang to learn
< 1276704342 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just boared
< 1276704363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga|bfing: Thue
< 1276704381 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thue is it´s name?
< 1276704388 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga|bfing: yes
< 1276704390 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga|bfing: Unlambda
< 1276705192 0 :lutsin!~lutsin@94.188.33.215 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276705387 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION discovered 3code

< 1276705389 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit
< 1276705935 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1276706860 0 :lutsin_!~lutsin@94.188.33.215 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276706966 0 :tombom!tombom@81.100.117.193 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276706974 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1276706974 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276706997 0 :lutsin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1276706997 0 :lutsin_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lutsin
< 1276707958 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.224.56 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276708256 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h171.10.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276708261 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1276708492 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does False have real closures?  Or are they just function pointer-like things?
< 1276708812 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're going to make me write a test program to find out, AREN'T YOU.
< 1276708815 0 :waga|bfing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1276708888 0 :Yandertal_work!~Yandertal@ip09.rdlbnc.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276708888 0 :Yandertal_work!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1276708917 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276709000 0 :waga!5c564e16@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.86.78.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276709008 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot, my Payola order parser is complete
< 1276709014 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Haskell
< 1276709015 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1276709037 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i type this? v
< 1276709048 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a command in acronym
< 1276709059 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like ^
< 1276709061 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1276709070 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the other direction
< 1276709100 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a v
< 1276709111 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same as in Befunge
< 1276709122 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: You need one of these: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Space-cadet.jpg
< 1276709179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The (unmodified) Finnish keyboard layout I have here can type ↓ and ↑ with altgr-u and shift-altgr-u.
< 1276709181 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok...
< 1276709198 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice computer
< 1276709209 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evrika
< 1276709217 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is v letter
< 1276709219 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1276709222 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1276709236 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1276709238 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276709239 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1276709433 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is willing to do a bf interpreter in asm

< 1276709439 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a bootloader
< 1276709627 0 :Yutaka_away!~Yutaka@ip09.rdlbnc.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276709627 0 :Yutaka_away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1276709780 0 :Yutaka!~Yutaka@hyadesinc/captain/yutaka JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276709781 0 :Yutaka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1276709980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, EXCESS FLOOD!
< 1276710061 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still in the room (hasn't quit yet: Tolerable Amounts of Flood).

< 1276710074 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no flood.
< 1276710084 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you will soon.
< 1276710091 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only see yutaka joining and quiting
< 1276710095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the Space Cadet is incredibly cool.
< 1276710142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meta, Super *and* Hyper.
< 1276710219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why anyone sane would code in GAS.

< 1276710427 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in GNU as, or something else?
< 1276710453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU as.
< 1276710464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else would it be?
< 1276710485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just based on the name, some sort of gas-simulation-based esolang.
< 1276710520 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And "Network".  And "".
< 1276710536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh?
< 1276710547 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space Cadet keys.
< 1276710552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1276710555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written an amount of code in GNU as, just because I don't really know what other ARM assemblers there are, and the toolkit I had has GNU binutils in it.
< 1276710568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbolics machines looked generally brilliand.
< 1276710578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/brilliand/brilliant/
< 1276710605 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Well, if there's nothing else, but it's very strange.
< 1276710616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for handwritten assembly.
< 1276710631 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiler-generated assembly is understandable.
< 1276710668 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know a great guy who programmes
< 1276710669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't feel that bad for me.
< 1276710670 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in gas
< 1276710679 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is founder of mirbsd
< 1276710695 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from him i learnt a bit of asm
< 1276710715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the macros are a bit strange, but it's not *that* horrible.
< 1276710756 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he made a bootloader with full filesystem support(about a dozen of them) to boot linux and bsd os-es
< 1276710761 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in gas
< 1276710766 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gas is wierd
< 1276710778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it actually have a d? instruction?
< 1276710778 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he says it´s better then nasm or fasm
< 1276710789 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea
< 1276710795 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION never used gas

< 1276710832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has .word and .byte such that can be used to insert raw data.
< 1276710840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1276710898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And .asciz + .ascii for text strings; it doesn't do stuff like db "foo", 0. But that's not such a huge annoyance.
< 1276711219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit arbitrary at times. ".align X" on i386-elf (and many others) aligns so that the location counter is a multiple of X, but on i386-a.out (and also many others) it aligns so that the location counter will have X low-order bits zero (in other words, to a multiple of 2^X).
< 1276711260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It does have explicit .balign and .p2align which always behave the same way, though.)
< 1276711328 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-192-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276711422 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo
< 1276712199 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1276712202 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good bye
< 1276712210 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a nice day/evwning
< 1276712238 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1276712291 0 :base3_!~base3@host109-152-205-18.range109-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276712696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so I have /dev/fd
< 1276712703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not /dev/fd0.
< 1276712707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get it?
< 1276712761 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, /dev/fd is the file descriptors.
< 1276712768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even more annoying.
< 1276712779 0 :base3_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sudo cp /dev/fd /dev/fd0
< 1276712781 0 :base3_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should do it
< 1276712794 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base3_, no.
< 1276712815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/fd0 should be a device file for a floppy.
< 1276712827 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/fd is a link to a directory of file descriptors.
< 1276712885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought /dev/fd was actually a bunch of pseudo-files courtesy of Bash?
< 1276712902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It corresponds to something in /proc/self
< 1276712911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regardless of implementation, though: that's file descriptor land.
< 1276712924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1276712928 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not floppies.
< 1276712940 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an image, but losetup won't loopify it.
< 1276712954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How odd.
< 1276713004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there isn't a loop module.
< 1276713012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which raises questions in itself.
< 1276713025 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like why the hell I have /dev/loop*
< 1276713039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume that your /dev/ is somehow not being managed by udev.
< 1276713050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A good conclusion.
< 1276713083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have forgotten how to fix that.
< 1276713096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heavily distro-specific.
< 1276713104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph.
< 1276713107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION Googles.

< 1276713112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though in general, it should be a very, very early part of init.
< 1276713167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Ubuntu, though I did modify some udev stuff months ago,
< 1276713190 0 :base3_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that ubuntu now has some experimental new alternaitve to udev
< 1276713191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Gentoo actually does udev initialisation twice; once in the initrd and once in init. Granted, the initrd bit is done with mdev (Busybox's tiny udev-alike), and ceases to exist once chroot happens...
< 1276713205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels stupid.

< 1276713212 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot one of the arguments
< 1276713224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops.
< 1276713224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base3_: No, there are two alternatives to udev in modern Linux: mdev (Busybox's udev-alike), and a manual, classic /dev filesystem.
< 1276713247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be devfs, but this is exceptionally archaic.
< 1276713332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/proc was originally a Plan 9 thing, wasn't it?
< 1276713426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, /proc is from Plan 9.
< 1276713451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And adapted to many other UNIXes because, well, it's a good idea, very UNIXy, and incredibly easy to implement.
< 1276715305 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276715329 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.224.56 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276715586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is FreeDOS binary-compatible with... old.. DOS...
< 1276715599 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I bleev so
< 1276715599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of lost the train of thought there.
< 1276715623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I assume that it runs on modern x86 processors.
< 1276715696 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.  All hail Intel!
< 1276716086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you install old DOS on modern x86 processors?
< 1276716155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think, if there's a blocking issue, it would be disks.
< 1276716160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not compatible enough to run Windows 3.11 (or 3.1 in 386 mode) on it, but other than that it's not bad.
< 1276716224 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floppies are now rare, big partitions may well confuse it, and optical disks... well, there are probably drivers you can get... somewhere.
< 1276716288 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it = old DOS, I mean.  I would sooner trust FreeDOS to not get these sorts of things wrong.
< 1276716309 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure FreeDOS has a nice generate ATAPI driver for CD-ROMs, for instance.
< 1276716314 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/generate/generic/
< 1276716341 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeDOS does FAT32 and shouldn't be confused by (reasonably) large disks, and there is indeed a CD-ROM driver included.
< 1276716466 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276716468 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276716480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not difficult to find a generic-enough-to-work ATAPI CD-ROM driver for old DOS either, though.
< 1276716494 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1276716497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVDs, especially with UDF on them, might be more problematical.
< 1276716541 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276716714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeDOS seems to have udvd.sys: "UDVD.SYS is a DOS driver for 1 to 3 CD/DVD drives, including SATA UltraDMA and older "PIO mode" drives."
< 1276716765 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.  Do you happen to know if anything in FreeDOS groks USB?
< 1276716774 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps "grok" is too strong a word.
< 1276716777 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tolerates"?
< 1276716867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, but Wikipedia seems to do: "So far there is no USB driver support inside the FreeDOS project, but many modern motherboards contain BIOS settings for "Legacy USB" support which allow USB devices to be used in operating systems that lack support for them (such as FreeDOS). This applies to keyboards and mice, and some BIOSes can even support storage devices. --
< 1276716869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Some external DOS USB drivers (such as DUSE, USBASPI and USBMASS) for storage devices work with some effort and luck. There is also DOSUSB which offers an API and supports storage devices, printers and serial adapters."
< 1276716888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"some effort and luck" sounds very promising.
< 1276716915 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, leveraging BIOS support.  Nice.
< 1276716929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, nothing but MS-DOS can run Windows 3.11, 3.1 in 386, or 95.
< 1276716947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had this exceptionally crazy routine called "sucking out the brains" of DOS.
< 1276716966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very dependent on an exact memory layout of deep, deep internals.
< 1276717057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DR-DOS supposedly can do Wfw3.11.
< 1276717136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though a patch seems to be needed to circumvent the "is this MS-DOS or some competitor" detection of the installer. Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AARD_code
< 1276717191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger."
< 1276717289 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, nice article.
< 1276717318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't read it very thoroughly; apparently they didn't use that bit in the final 3.1 release.
< 1276717623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Novell?
< 1276717625 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276717666 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1276717672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good old Microsoft.
< 1276718305 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276718306 0 :lutsin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: lutsin
< 1276718848 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-22-88.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276718932 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1276719156 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276719181 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need better tools
< 1276719362 0 :lutsin!~lutsin@94.188.33.215 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276719723 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-22-88.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276720084 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need tools that know what I'm doing without me having to endlessly customize them.  Surely what I'm doing is not so unique that a framework for it which covers most of that space would not be unthinkable.
< 1276720093 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, alise is not here today, so I'm talking to myself
< 1276720195 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1276720287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1276721906 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-81.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276722462 0 :lutsin!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276722647 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1276722803 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276722818 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there actually anything at 0x0?
< 1276722841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since it segfaults for obvious reasons)
< 1276723264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally there's nothing mapped there, but I think you can mmap something there if you want.
< 1276723297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least my mmap man page seems to suggest that MAP_FIXED and 0 will map to 0.
< 1276723338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If the kernel has not been configured to not map that.
< 1276723345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux, by default, will not map the first page.
< 1276723473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh.
< 1276723480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for physical address 0, it should be perfectly usable RAM. Though the low region of the memory map are a bit messy. http://pastebin.com/eQkFp9i6
< 1276723482 0 :AndChat|!~AndChat@62.140.137.101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276723492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely Bad Things can happen if NULL is 0x0?
< 1276723517 0 :AndChat|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1276723619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I recall correctly, the C64 (and C128) have some registers at bytes 0 and 1; there was some sort of clever trickery to actually read/write the RAM bytes "under" those, but it was pretty pointless.
< 1276723626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D6510 0000 0 6510 On-chip Data Direction Register. R6510 0001 1 6510 On-chip 8-bit Input/Output Register.
< 1276723649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a simple way to reduce your clock speed?
< 1276723703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfectly usable ram that Linux is set to avoid.
< 1276723738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the obvious reason that everything likes using it.
< 1276723755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Depends on the CPU.
< 1276723770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming something of the x86 family?
< 1276723782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux, or just in generic?
< 1276723786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the exact CPU.
< 1276723790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generic, I suspect.
< 1276723822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS, more specifically.
< 1276723843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on CPU manufacturer, CPU model, year made, etc.
< 1276723852 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodness.
< 1276723862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could implement the ACPI way, I guess, that's somewhat widely supported on modern systems.
< 1276723864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming something modern?
< 1276723886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i seem to recall 6502 had special instructions for addressing the first 256 bytes of memory, perhaps 6510 did too...
< 1276723887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've still got the Intel and AMD ways. Though I'm pretty sure you can just use ACPI and it'll mostly work.
< 1276724010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*special addressing mode for some instructions
< 1276724122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the "zero page" is special.
< 1276724140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, any general CPU-initiated memory access will hit those registers.
< 1276724263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1276724332 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1276724384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it is so that it was the C128 "MMU" (if you can call it that) that made it possible to access those bytes. Though I do recall that there was some C64 trick. Can't seem to google it right now.
< 1276724662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1276725199 0 :Oranjer1!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-81.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276725237 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276725271 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1276725358 0 :casdoro!~Casdoro@vc-41-19-141-122.umts.vodacom.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276725706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a reasonable assumption that a bootloader will have entirely zeroed memory?
< 1276725728 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... not in my world
< 1276725744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY?
< 1276725746 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On boot, RAM could be filled with anything
< 1276725754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's RAM! It's not persistent!
< 1276725762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is putting stuff in it?
< 1276725764 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Maybe you should study electronics :)
< 1276725787 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What would guarantee that any given bit is low?
< 1276725790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not the time.
< 1276725813 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then just take my word for it... you can't rely on it.
< 1276725821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn.
< 1276725832 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the machine manufacturer says you can because they did something special to make that happen.
< 1276725835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have to spend ages zeroing out an appropriate area?
< 1276725856 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If... you want it to contain only zeroes... yes.
< 1276725894 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the impression that usually happens to each chunk just before allocation, rather than all at once at boot.
< 1276725914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course.
< 1276726126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At boot, the RAM contains random data.
< 1276726166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it has been recent enough for the data contained to have not been erased; in which case, it contains the data from the previous run of the computer (possibly corrupted).
< 1276726188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh.
< 1276726221 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd assumed that when power was cut, all bits went to 0.)
< 1276726248 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tend to, but it takes time.  And "tend" is not a very strong word.
< 1276726256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowhere *near* that convenient.
< 1276726275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it's more *likely* to be 0 than one, but it's still very, very, very indeterminate.
< 1276726287 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entropy, ain't it great?
< 1276726368 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276726404 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn entropy.
< 1276726461 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
< 1276726472 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay!
< 1276726481 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always feel sorry for the coyote.
< 1276726501 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276726522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276726533 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1276726638 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276726640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the "bip" bouncer/proxy default quit-message; I use it too. (Unless it was written manually, or used by something else too.)
< 1276726732 0 :casdoro!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276727416 0 :hiato!~nine@dsl-245-52-53.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276727757 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ho, hiato!
< 1276727831 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might I extend my most humble greetings to you, sir
< 1276727984 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, cpressey, what is an era-related appropriate response to that?
< 1276728186 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: You know, I'm not sure... mostly people just treat Wooster like the halfwit he his.  Except Jeeves, who would say something along the lines of what you said.  Maybe briefer.
< 1276728225 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Wooster
< 1276728603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realises that he can just pass the bin file for a bootloader to QEMU and it still works.

< 1276729061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn.
< 1276729162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can actually directly pass a bzimage and initrd to Qemu and it works.
< 1276729182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. bzimage, initrd, and kernel command line.
< 1276729234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that.
< 1276729251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was messing around with custom bootloaders.
< 1276729457 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1276729504 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1276729902 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1276729916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1276731009 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
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< 1276732208 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1276732249 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"T100 L4 CFG8F#8F G8H8F8H8JP4 >CC