< 1278547226 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Er, it's a continuous-integration build I'm working on, actually. < 1278547241 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite racy! < 1278547275 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1278547301 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Where did you get the idea that I'm a character in a manga, exactly? :P < 1278547367 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Leaden! You should ask me about leaden. That would be great. < 1278547390 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: That's a good question. ... But not as good as questions about Leaden! < 1278547408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: DO TELL ME < 1278547415 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: IT WILL BUG ME ALL NIGHT IF YOU DO NOT ANSWER < 1278547428 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NOT A QUESTION SORRY YOU LOSE < 1278547468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: "Where" is not the question. I have no idea where any of them come from. I think the more relevant would be "why did I not dismiss the idea immediately." The answer: because it entertained me. < 1278547487 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it had something to do with choosing to go by the name "alise". < 1278547495 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desu. Am I doing it right? < 1278547513 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1278547525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1278547526 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes, I think that will do nicely. < 1278547528 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What, exactly, do you want me to tell you about leaden for the purpose of me then shutting up? < 1278547573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: What, exactly, makes this awesome. Your ideas tend to have awesome properties, and I want to know what those awesome properties are for leaden. < 1278547593 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know why it's called "leaden", for one. < 1278547598 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, still not a question. < 1278547606 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There is no "save" feature! < 1278547618 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Under normal operating conditions!) < 1278547690 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ed[itor] -> lead (l-ed) -> lead seems incomplete -> leaden < 1278547710 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yokay. < 1278547727 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WILL YOU INQUIRE AS TO WHY OR FOREVER WALLOW IN A POOL OF DESPERATE IGNORANCE? < 1278547737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: KIAL < 1278547747 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THESE ARE THE TWO OPTIONS < 1278547753 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WHAT < 1278547770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"KIAL" be ESPERANTO for WHY < 1278547782 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kill, Intimately, Attractive Lemurs < 1278547792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where ESPERANTO is an all-caps variant of Esperanto. :P) < 1278547825 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: To cure VERSION CONTROL APATHY: wherein I never actually bother to use it. < 1278547833 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution? < 1278547842 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every single change is saved auto < 1278547855 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matically, < 1278547866 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Ctrl+S does a /commit/. < 1278547873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1278547881 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VoilĂ , suddenly using a VCS is natural and easy. < 1278547884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On pikhq-coreutils, I've finally ceased with the version control apathy. < 1278547905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I realised that I've got DVCS stuff installed. < 1278547918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Making setting up a repo trivial. < 1278547934 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Another feature: Barely any features! < 1278547957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woots. < 1278547970 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I barely use any fancy-shmancy stuff! So I'm just cutting it out with a chainsaw, for my mind is small and easily confused. < 1278548008 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1278548012 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :union-find gives you O(4) < 1278548016 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that, alise??????????? < 1278548023 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will have very few ui elements, correspondingly few keyboard shortcuts and nothing else. < 1278548029 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for... < 1278548040 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: that's O(1), dipshit < 1278548074 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wikipedia article says O(n) for n proven to be =<4 for most practical cases. < 1278548077 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving on < 1278548084 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: haha < 1278548089 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at big O < 1278548091 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard < 1278548139 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's the algo I think it is, it's O(inverseAckermann(n,n)) < 1278548145 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do not understand the fact that O(4) still takes 4 times as much time as O(1). < 1278548153 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where inverseAckermann(n,n) is under 4 for just about any number you care about in practice < 1278548157 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278548167 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Ackermann grows, like, quickly, eh? < 1278548183 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway. Leaden will highlight syntax, automatically indent, open multiple files, open files near other files, find strings in files, and tell you the current line number. < 1278548192 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... very little else. < 1278548207 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But /really well/. < 1278548233 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night, all. < 1278548238 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I assume (hope) you're joking. < 1278548242 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey_awaaaay < 1278548244 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Night. < 1278548270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even I know that O(4) = O(1) < 1278548285 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: i'm just teasin' you < 1278548298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or.. is equivalent in some other way < 1278548300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confuses < 1278548305 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And I think it'll be... well, better than Emacs. At least for me. < 1278548309 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: = < 1278548316 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: you're cute when you get all angsty like that < 1278548331 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: just look here http://1.1.1.5/bmi/upload.wikimedia.org/math/2/4/0/240db6e2d532529d06b69bec85274b95.png < 1278548335 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1278548340 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/2/4/0/240db6e2d532529d06b69bec85274b95.png < 1278548349 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and multiply or divide M by 4. < 1278548350 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that big-O is an overloaded notation < 1278548365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_0? < 1278548378 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hes trolling you. < 1278548379 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the equality in big-O actually is an \in sign. < 1278548384 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: no. < 1278548395 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: i only mess with *your* mind < 1278548398 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, wait, no. < 1278548411 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big-O represents asymptotic behavior < 1278548429 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must remember to make cheater99 go away sometime. < 1278548443 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No, it represents a < 1278548449 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount of shock < 1278548449 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: well, if you weren't hatin', we could live together peacefully < 1278548451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. there's too little context for that link to make sense. < 1278548462 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_O_notation#Formal_definition < 1278548464 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(0.1) = :o < 1278548475 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(100) = :O < 1278548494 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can make my lookup O(0.0001) < 1278548508 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1278548550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go back to SGA now < 1278548564 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna try and go to sleep < 1278548566 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya later guys < 1278548572 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy your week aliseiphone < 1278548581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: exactly < 1278548585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(1) is equivalent to O(4) < 1278548591 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes. < 1278548629 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why were you arguing that they are different? < 1278548636 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just messing with alise < 1278548639 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1278548641 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1278548643 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good plan < 1278548644 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since she gets into silly arguments < 1278548664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now impressed with the Surf web browser < 1278548669 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :url? < 1278548679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://surf.suckless.org/ < 1278548683 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is mentally facepalming really "being messed with". < 1278548690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if you want to read it: http://hg.suckless.org/surf/file/dbb565b8d61c/surf.c < 1278548695 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278548918 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Clearly I must write a BETTER one! < 1278548929 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1278548935 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no A < 1278548941 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, night. < 1278548952 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*goodnight < 1278548954 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1278548957 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info < 1278549176 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's so confused < 1278549564 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep < 1278549564 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1278549706 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278550281 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278550419 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278550490 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278552021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ugh no tabs < 1278552028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used tabless browsers before... horribkle < 1278552031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible* < 1278552366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's designed to be embedded inside of a program implementing tabs, such as tabbed. < 1278552413 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any tabbing WM < 1278552419 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which, what tabbing WMs are there? < 1278552683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wouldn't it waste a lot of memory based on not sharing state? < 1278552693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I have some 80 tabs < 1278552705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80 firefox instances would be horrible < 1278552709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure webkit is better but < 1278552710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1278552760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You realise that everything that *can* be shared is shared between processes just as well as between different portions of the same process, right? < 1278552807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes but there will be some mutable state that is no longer shared < 1278552813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, such as loaded bookmarks < 1278552820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it mmaps bookmarks < 1278552824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That mutable state is *not sharable anyways*. < 1278552837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, like bookmarks? sharable between tabs < 1278552846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not easily between processes without a lot of work < 1278552848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using multiple processes instead of a single one isn't going to help that. < 1278552855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: who said anything about bookmarks? < 1278552859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ... the reverse < 1278552861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surf doesn't have them. < 1278552865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1278552874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Erm, right. < 1278552880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I think I prefer a slightly more bloated browser < 1278552896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm using Conkeror (XUL based) myself... < 1278552908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just got to admit: surf is a nice piece of work. < 1278552913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not vonkeror? < 1278552914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278552922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Not Vonkeror. < 1278552928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should totally switch to it :D < 1278552960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, likre really < 1278552975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1278554498 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1278555283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!c9e51d45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.229.29.69 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278555450 0 :Azkalar!~azkalar@bl12-148-168.dsl.telepac.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1278555486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1278559304 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-14-50.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1278559991 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h16.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278560145 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278560369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1278560842 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278561123 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION may very well build a decimal-based computer < 1278561438 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1278562316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would end up with strange operators < 1278562323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't have and and or < 1278562330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those are binary < 1278562335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have some weird ones < 1278562337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ^ < 1278562348 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1278562356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hbm < 1278562359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hm < 1278562360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ty? < 1278562365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For pinging me < 1278562367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was iaw < 1278562367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1278562370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iaw? < 1278562377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In another window < 1278562380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1278562403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, anyway even for ternary you have some weird operators < 1278562407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember which ones < 1278562415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have even stranger ones for decimal < 1278562439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do binary for some things, decimal for others, I think < 1278562443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe decimal memory < 1278562453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, how boring :P < 1278562466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, NBCD? < 1278562474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if yes BOOORING < 1278562491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need 10 logic levels < 1278562509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it is just boring < 1278562522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NBCD? < 1278562545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N Binary Coded Decimal? < 1278562548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot what N stands for < 1278562563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nono < 1278562575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just thinking it's as easy to store a digit as a bit < 1278562577 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In AW < 1278562578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1278562582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be mistaken < 1278562586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, um in AW < 1278562588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how boring < 1278562593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were using real hardware < 1278562597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do do a decimal computer < 1278562601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would have been interesting < 1278562609 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Everything Sgeo does is in AW < 1278562612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with AW, boooooring < 1278562614 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the LambdaMoo work < 1278562623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what is lambdamoo? < 1278562634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another dead game that Sgeo works on < 1278562638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1278562657 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thoughts on Sgeo: < 1278562662 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote disturbing < 1278562664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AW is just completely and utterly boring < 1278562675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo foo < 1278562678 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278562688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1278562689 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, HackEgo is broken < 1278562691 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278562695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo foo < 1278562695 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: weren't you rendering skyroads? < 1278562703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, not me. Ilari < 1278562707 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HackEgo is broken :( < 1278562707 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1278562708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please try to use your memory < 1278562711 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278562720 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: check out Tasty Static, it's cool < 1278562729 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i can't, memory is the new hard disk! < 1278562735 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rimshot* < 1278562741 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Nah. < 1278562743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, ...? < 1278562759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, so what was the quote? < 1278562762 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: just 'nah'? < 1278562777 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hadn't even looked at it. that's fairly disappointing. < 1278562810 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: something along the lines of "Sgeo, while I'm supportive of your interest in games, the necrophilia is disturbing" < 1278562819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, wut < 1278562824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1278562826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it now < 1278562829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:20 < 1278562833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't slept in 18 hours < 1278562855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, make that 19 < 1278562871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait 21 even < 1278562874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I need sleep < 1278563213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the implications of making all the opcodes in an 8-bit system be prime numbers < 1278563231 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of invalid opcodes < 1278563263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few valid opcodes < 1278563337 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many valid opcodes? About 50? < 1278563391 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :54 < 1278563403 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(typed in "prime numbers less than 256" in Alpha < 1278563509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1278563529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, alpha does some nice translating to mathematica syntax < 1278563802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, 98 and 99 are coprime! < 1278564215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts muttering 0 1, 0 1 2 under his breaht < 1278564217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*breath < 1278565328 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1278566673 0 :Azkalar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278569331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278569400 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278569405 0 :Halph!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278569416 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1278569428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not look "weird". Pshaw. < 1278569614 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278570706 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278570779 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278572233 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: lang may yer lum reek.. < 1278572905 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@108.121.76.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278572918 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I have a Zune. < 1278572919 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1278573412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, I have an N-Gage. (Though not actively in use nowadays.) < 1278573441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I assume this was some sort of "most ridiculous gadgets" thing?) < 1278574061 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost 13 hours and currently at frame 18 834 of 48 015... < 1278574075 0 :rodgort`!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278574076 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278574241 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... I need to design pipeline for esolang. Preferably one that's fairly long and can have important stuff occur in different places depending on the exact instruction... :-> < 1278575830 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278575831 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278575834 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278575834 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278575999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1278576000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1278576753 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278576810 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278577666 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a chemical reaction in your brain. < 1278579897 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278581046 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278581053 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278581385 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278581713 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1278581964 0 :tombom!tombom@82.27.30.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278581965 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1278581965 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1278582127 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kxokxo < 1278582640 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1278582649 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I think natural languages have primitive words < 1278582669 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-252.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278582683 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then words that can be defined by direct substition into a sentence with the meaning unchanged. < 1278583418 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1278583435 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h16.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278584970 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278585232 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-70-203.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1278585620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do I get if I just make AND, OR, and XOR? < 1278585717 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get....... < 1278585722 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND, OR, and XOR....? < 1278585733 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm probably missing some context.) < 1278585785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there logical gates I can't construct? < 1278585795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From AND, OR, and XOR? < 1278585804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, um < 1278585805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR gives you NOT. < 1278585817 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence you have NAND and NOR. < 1278585831 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need is NAND < 1278585851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, but if I represent a 1 as a pulse and a 0 as no pulse, how would I do NOT or NAND? < 1278585869 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x XOR 1 = NOT x < 1278585877 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x NAND x < 1278585917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes. With a 1 being given by.. some other circuit, or something < 1278585923 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it wants to do a NOT < 1278585929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need for a separate "do it" signal < 1278585933 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR is: c = a NAND b; output = (a NAND c) NAND (b NAND c) < 1278585943 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm going to bed. gnight < 1278585967 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1278585991 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But.. NAND needs to make 1s out of nothing, iiuc < 1278586015 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't have constants, you can't make NOT with just AND/OR/XOR. < 1278586067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I make a computer without constants? < 1278586121 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do real-world computers do .. oh wait, 1 is a continuous flow < 1278586121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have NOT and XOR, you can do x XOR x = 0 and NOT (x XOR x) = 1 and you have constants. < 1278586129 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real-world computers have constants, yes. :-P < 1278586232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can _do_ constants, but .. I don't see an easy way to do them without either having redundant logic in each logic gate, or using NOT for the simplest gates [and NOT consumes time and may not be reliable due to lag] < 1278586259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redundant logic? < 1278586385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To build an AND gate, I'd AND the 1 part of the inputs for the result's 1, and OR the 0 part of the inputs for the result's 0 < 1278586862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the deal: I can send pulses < 1278586875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can also send.. a thing that makes an awsistor store a 1 or 0 < 1278586899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it stores a 1 and I send a pulse though, a signal happens, as defined by the awsistor, but if it stores a 0... nothing happens < 1278586911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how do I represent a bit in such an environment? < 1278586919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pulse for 1 and a different pulse for 0? < 1278586944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set one awsistor to 1 and a different one to 0 for 1, and visa versa for 0, and send a pulse when something changes? < 1278586952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pulse for 1, no pulse for 0? < 1278587008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe a mixed environment < 1278587051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, if I have a circuit doing a lot of ANDs and ORs, pulse for 1 no pulse for 0 < 1278588666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: im not much of a fan of pulses. i prefer drupes. < 1278589000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wiki, drupe is a fruit < 1278589003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pulse is not a fruit < 1278589115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278589575 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1278589578 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still prefer drupes! < 1278589714 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err... drupe is type of a fruit? < 1278589803 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peaches etc < 1278589817 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sorry < 1278589818 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plums < 1278589826 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no peaches too < 1278589827 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1278589845 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coffee is a drupe :D < 1278589856 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a drupe is basically one of those fruits with a pit < 1278589935 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those have mechanical protection of seed itself. So its less likely they have nasty chemical tricks. :-) < 1278590308 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the seed itself is always protected. It may be mechanical (hard shell, digestion-resistant casing) or chemical defenses (toxins and antinutrients) or combination of those. :-) < 1278590783 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278592267 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278592276 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278592277 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278592282 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278592787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is stupidly awake right now < 1278593378 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods tiredly < 1278593529 0 :cpressey_awaaaay!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278594759 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278595017 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278595910 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278597252 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278597702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, combine feather an a nomic < 1278597780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and* < 1278597819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here, is this idea plausible or completely insane: when writing a VCS, have a standardised PHP script that's accessible over the Web so you can check in changes over http/https as well as pulling them from there < 1278597827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have to be in PHP to work on cheap webhosts < 1278597844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it could be static html < 1278597854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bzr can pull from a static web server < 1278597854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how do you commit to static HTML? < 1278597865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, most VCSes can /pull/ from a static web server < 1278597865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, commit you can't do that way < 1278597867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about /pushing/ < 1278597870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1278597874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would require server-side scripting < 1278597884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally, with the same URL as the pull < 1278597887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you *said* pulling though < 1278597903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "as well as pulling" < 1278597909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "check in" was the push < 1278597918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1278597920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278597922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I want to do A as well as B" "but you can do B anyway!" < 1278597930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read that as "check for" < 1278597961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bzr can push over ssh (without bzr on the other end even), and iirc also over ftp < 1278598020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, nice idea < 1278598048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what do you like my idea of feathernomic < 1278598090 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278598110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think of* < 1278598158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had vague ideas myself < 1278598161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be too confusing to play < 1278598189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: darcs can push over ssh too, although I think it needs darcs on the other end in order to speed up the process < 1278598222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would still be an awesome game < 1278598243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bzr can optionally use bzr at the other end for speeding up < 1278598367 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, for Git you could have the PHP script understand the RPC protocol and do the repository manipulation itself. :-) < 1278598377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: genius < 1278598389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm vaguely thinking about writing my own VCS, I have plans for it already < 1278598405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because modern VCSes still don't do everything I think a VCS should do < 1278598410 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: RPC protocol is the only smart transport protocol that doesn't belong to same family as git:// < 1278598412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as? < 1278598439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merging changes into blocks which have changed indentation < 1278598447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. someone puts if(x) { ... } around a block < 1278598453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone else edits the inside of the block itself < 1278598458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why that should cause a conflict < 1278598466 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278598476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it needs to know the language < 1278598478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you should be able to cherrypick anything without problems; darcs is good at that, most common VCSes are rather bad < 1278598482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it doesn't < 1278598504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in erlang it would be quite different for the last line, since the last line in the block will lose the ending , < 1278598515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the entire context of a diff has changed whitespace consistently, in every language I know, except Whitespace, it would be safe to edit like that < 1278598530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Erlang, the test won't work and you'd have to merge manually, but it wouldn't mess up < 1278598536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1278598576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you plan to support Whitespace? < 1278598587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option to turn that check offf < 1278598588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*off < 1278598591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278598603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, needed for binary files anyway < 1278598614 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Only that currently one needs protocol that supports 'connect' operation to do remote snapshot (git://, ssh://, file://, any remote helper that has 'connect' capability). RPC doesn't support that. :-/ < 1278598617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chance of it mattering for a binary file is incredibly low < 1278598625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I get your point < 1278599070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should also be able to do the equivalent of "git rebase" arbitrarily without screwing up anyone else's repo when they try to pull from you < 1278599309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think rebasing is modifying the immutable history < 1278599325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once commited it shouldn't be possible to change < 1278599337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the solution IMO is to have two layers < 1278599342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual history, and user-readable history < 1278599355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second would be modifiable to make it more readable (which is the reason people rebase), the first wouldn't < 1278599362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use merge < 1278599483 0 :agox!~cagocs@199.0.170.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278599504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, SCO have appealed again < 1278599511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hahaha < 1278599512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be hilarious to see which arguments they use this time < 1278599528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1278600736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bubbly food < 1278600772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, XD < 1278600833 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278600839 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278601199 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278602069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278605616 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278605931 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278606007 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-15-63.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1278606308 0 :agox!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278606488 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Although total lunar eclipses seem much more common than total solar eclipses, in reality there's about 10 total solar eclipses for 11 total lunar eclipses. :-) < 1278606693 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On average, there's one total solar eclipse in apprroximately 1.58 years. For total lunar eclipse the same time is approximately 1.44 years. < 1278606811 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one TSE soon: http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/OH/OH2010.html#SE2010Jul11T < 1278607149 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278607156 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278607239 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278607403 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Exciting new features!!! OK not really | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1278607526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The one that's soon isn't very watching-friendly; "makes no landfall except for Mangaia (Cook Islands), Easter Island (Isla de Pascua) and several isolated atolls". < 1278607647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1278608104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was one visible nicely from Finland back in 1990; there's not going to be another any time soon, I think. < 1278608248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have never seen a total one < 1278608251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1278608256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside tv and youtube < 1278608311 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have NEVER SEEN THE WORLD outside TV and YouTube < 1278608576 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1278608988 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278608994 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278609684 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next cycle total solar eclipses: 2010-07-11, 2012-11-13, 2015-03-20, 2016-03-09, 2017-08-21, 2019-07-02, 2020-12-14, 2021-12-04, 2024-04-08, 2026-08-12 and 2027-08-02. < 1278609735 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consuming each character of the program source triggers an event. An event changes the state of the consumer and can optionally add a continuation (of a sort) to a collection of continuations to be enacted at some later point. The continuations can be set up to save (and re-enter when activated) previous states, so you can build context-free (at least) consumers. < 1278609780 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Trying to unify scanning, parsing, immediate, and deferred execution.) < 1278609967 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are from Saros 146, 133, 120, 130, 145, 127, 142, 152, 139, 126 and 136 (in order). < 1278610208 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1278610356 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1278610378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's oerjan < 1278610402 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to talk to him about metatopology < 1278610489 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgently! < 1278610499 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a metatopological emergency! < 1278610517 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1278610520 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol. < 1278610533 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278610588 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-252.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278610662 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This century also has total eclipses from Saros 129, 149, 148 and 155. < 1278610873 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1278610887 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278611540 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278611768 0 :cheater99!~cheater@dyndsl-085-016-222-194.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1278611974 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next Saros cycle to start is 156 with PSE in 2011. That cycle never produces TSE, but produces TLEs (2565-3034). It ends in 3503 with PLE. < 1278612214 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278612219 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278612703 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Course, there has to be some kind of self-modifying aspect to the consumer, so that you can define new identifiers -- basically, you alter the events that are triggered when the characters in that identifier is consumed. Hmm... < 1278612979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hm? the context being? < 1278612996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, which language or such < 1278613024 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(11:22:35 AM) (Trying to unify scanning, parsing, immediate, and deferred execution.) < 1278613025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, when is the next one for south-central Sweden? < 1278613035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ah, not for a specific language then? < 1278613054 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could be a specific language, eventually < 1278613079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Consuming each character of the program source triggers an event. <-- like befunge you mean? < 1278613081 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like Mascarpone meets beta-Juliet meets... oh, who knows. < 1278613094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks for Mascarpone on the esowiki < 1278613102 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Except Befunge doesn't really have a grammar. No multi-character identifiers < 1278613106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no page titled "Mascarpone". You can create this page. < 1278613107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1278613123 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of mine < 1278613126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, does brainfuck have a grammar? There are no multi-char identifiers either < 1278613130 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't made an esowiki page for it yet I guess < 1278613132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but [ and ] has to be matched < 1278613158 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's much closer to a grammar than Befunge has, imo. < 1278613174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge has essentially no syntax < 1278613194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1278613209 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That site doesn't allow to search by location. < 1278613215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope fizzie starts working on jitfunge again btw < 1278613224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgot if cpressey heard about jitfunge before < 1278613235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ah < 1278613247 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember jitfunge from back when it was Betty :) < 1278613257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, betty? doesn't sound familiar at all < 1278613261 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a Befunge-93 jit compiler < 1278613269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, jitfunge is fizzie'z project for a befunge-98 JIT compiling befunge < 1278613270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably lost to history < 1278613277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is based on this betty at all < 1278613284 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm sure it's now < 1278613286 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not < 1278613302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, iirc fizzie is using LLVM for it now, was doing his own x86 machine code at first but later switched to llvm < 1278613320 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm is good for that < 1278613364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's jitfunge going, anyways? < 1278613371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, fun thing about jitfunge is that mycology is somewhat useless on it. Since it interprets and remembers first time it encounters a path in the code, then next time it ends up running that same path it JITs it. So things that work once might not work twice. Which mycology kind of assumes. < 1278613413 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That makes it sound like jitfunge is incorrect < 1278613427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it makes it sound like it is pre 0.0.0.1 < 1278613427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1278613466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it ends a path when there are several directions to travel. Or maybe it didn't (I seem to remember it optimised the >:#,_ idiom (and variants for other directions), or maybe it was just a discussion about optimising it... not sure) < 1278613496 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 902 frames of 48 015 done in 23:50... < 1278613496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It ends a path at branches, yes. < 1278613523 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The key is that when you execute p and similar, you have to invalidate any compiled code that might have been changed by it. < 1278613531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm, I guess it didn't turn >:#,_ into "output string" then < 1278613533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1278613601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, for p it had some sort of list for cells with traces using them in some way < 1278613605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could invalidate < 1278613718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION submits another level for Enigma < 1278614233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: There's also the fact that I "optimize" fixed-coordinate 'p' to a single memory store, but then I have to keep track of all target cells of such writes, in case someone later goes and executes code there, because the simple write wouldn't of course invalidate the trace. < 1278614292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I have to invalidate also traces that have ;-jumped over some space iff the write adds/removes a ; on the route; and potentially worry about all wrapping traces if the code bounding-box changes. < 1278614374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mycology problem indeed is that it does its tests only once, so it won't (easily) find bugs in the created JIT code, because those parts are only executed once, and traced while interpreting them; they'd be compiled+executed only when encountered a second time. < 1278614600 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278614705 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Surely that could be addressed by including a top-level loop in Mycology which makes it run its tests n times? (Although I admit that there are probably logistical problems with modifying Mycology in this way...) < 1278614733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to undo all self-modification and reset any other state. < 1278614751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant would probably know how feasible something like that is. < 1278614760 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat, but not very. :-) < 1278614843 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it shouldn't be too hard to just reload the file and go again (in the interpreter, if you don't want to write it in Befunge) < 1278614873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, doing it in Befunge is doable pretty much only if you can get to the q at the end < 1278614917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, that's not as trivial as using 'i' since that doesn't overwrite things with spaces < 1278614936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it self-modifies heavily iirc, which means a lot of the jited code would still be ran as if first time < 1278614942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you reset the file I mean < 1278614972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some parts, yes, but most test code shouldn't change < 1278614988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for testing I guess you could always trace and jit, then execute? Just make it not actually touch funge space on any p or such while tracing < 1278615197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds also somewhat feasible, but not completely trivial. < 1278615238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest doing that, since it can be useful for general (non-Mycology) testing < 1278615330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you need to try it the other way too, in case the tracer variant is buggy < 1278615445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm if you had a trace like >'6 2 2 p and then some other code changed that 6 into a 9 or such, couldn't you in theory avoid rejitting that and just modify the value in the jitted machine code? < 1278615560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I sort-of "handle" that by marking (one-shot and normal) string-mode-traced cells with a different "type" value, and a pointer to the corresponding intermediate-form opcode. < 1278615584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1278615590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why "handle"? < 1278615603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the quotes around it I mean < 1278615607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can (I'm not sure if I currently do) just alter the intermediate opcode and run LLVM's codegen, without having to throw out the whole trace. < 1278615633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quotes where there because even better would be to patch the generated machine code directly, to avoid also the codegen step. < 1278615655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd run into problems with constant-folding though, I assume. < 1278616173 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.6/20100625231939] < 1278616914 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278617289 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278617314 0 :cheater99!~cheater@dyndsl-085-016-222-194.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1278619256 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278619312 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278619594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278620203 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278621617 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278622308 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1278623773 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278624077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves how "" is a perfectly complete & valid Makefile < 1278625086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geh, decoding a Descent 1 demo was a horrible mess. They use a variable-length "object" data structure, and the length depends on things like how many submodels a particular model has, so you have to decode all the polygon model data to know how many bytes to skip even if you're not interested in the event in question. (The demo files are a stream of events telling what to render on-screen.) < 1278625399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278625611 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278625960 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278626405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278626495 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-0-120.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278626797 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278627449 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1278627519 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278628059 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278629214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278629330 0 :aliseiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278629345 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested in ducks and the exciting properties of ducks. < 1278629361 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it's 4:48PM (CST) again. < 1278629373 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give or take a few minutes. < 1278629543 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: I'm trying to unify scanning, parsing, and immediate and deferred execution into a single, coherent, ugly framework. < 1278629556 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But right now I need to cancel an appt. bbiab < 1278629559 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278629807 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278629832 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan. < 1278629836 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ping < 1278629886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1278630117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : aliseiphone: I'm trying to unify scanning, parsing, and immediate and deferred execution into a single, coherent, ugly framework. < 1278630136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whispers madly about oleg's iteratees and enumerators < 1278630229 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect my crap looks quite different < 1278630262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite probably. i just suspect oleg's framework supports all the things you mentioned. < 1278630331 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fetch fizzie please < 1278630335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a scanner is an enumerator, a parser is an iteratee. and by embedding it into a monad you can get immediate execution if you want. < 1278630353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deferred execution being the default in haskell, naturally < 1278630369 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I feel like just giving up on that, then. < 1278630372 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to describe just how strange he looks < 1278630412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well that's the little i think i understand of it, anyway. < 1278630431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly just from browsing the package documentation < 1278630455 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Design a language that is TC and /only/ executable with infinite storage (say, filled with every natural) < 1278630464 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure this is possible < 1278630500 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You ever read Oleg's site? Great way to be humbled. < 1278630513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: wouldn't it by necessity take infinite time to check that you actually have infinite storage < 1278630523 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/. Go on, pick a link < 1278630526 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: not sure it makes sense. No difference between infinite storage filled with every natural, and unbounded storage lazily poulated with successive naturals. < 1278630528 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*link. < 1278630539 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Yes, I've read through it, mostly the scheme stuff. < 1278630543 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. That's the issue. < 1278630592 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you define your operations to work on infinite amounts of storage at a time. < 1278630599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can actually be implemented to be practical, then the infinite parts can be faked. well that's almost a tautology. < 1278630738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: I'm pretty sure that there is no such thing. < 1278630774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Turing machine that will halt does not ever access infinite storage. < 1278630803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because by merit of halting, it must have executed a finite number of steps, and hence accessed a finite amount of storage. < 1278630816 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Practicality unneccessary. < 1278630838 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you are all correct. < 1278630843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, it'll probably have to be superturing. < 1278630896 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then, a language where every operation takes an infinite list of values and transforms them into another infinite list < 1278630932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps, although you need the operation to be complicated enough to defy laziness at least... < 1278630957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it somehow not be lazy and you're good. < 1278630971 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. V := MAP(x in V) (SUM(x in V) x)/(SUM(x in V) [x>0]) < 1278630999 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mean of sorts. Sets all values to 0 if there are an infinite number of nonzeroes though. < 1278631005 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So kinda pointless. < 1278631012 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries desperately to think up a pun on "quantum computing" < 1278631032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're really strict about this, you'd have to make it be impossible to compress the list contents to finite size using any kind of math :D < 1278631044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*computable math < 1278631058 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278631103 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V := concat MAP(x in V) < 1278631108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the problem is that once you've observed the pun, it's not quantum anymore < 1278631111 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is an obvious one. < 1278631188 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V := FOLD(x in V; y=<>) y ++ < 1278631206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Just requires that the list be uncomputable. < 1278631207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278631393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WOULD WORK < 1278631421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Make it a list of noncomputable rationals. < 1278631440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and now you have two problems) < 1278631459 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"noncomputable rationals", eh? < 1278631466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1278631468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reals. < 1278631469 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we might in fact have three problems. < 1278631470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REALS < 1278631486 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1278631540 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278631923 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Just use a real-computer :P < 1278631944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: XD < 1278631949 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write an automatic proof system. < 1278631962 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do I, but < 1278631965 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nqthm did it, Oleg did it... < 1278631974 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not automatic < 1278631976 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Boyers-Moore did it, < 1278631988 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Well, automatic is the whole fun. < 1278631996 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you need is resolution < 1278632020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot of resolve < 1278632060 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Especially from a type theory perspective: you're writing a program that takes a specification of some types, and for some subset tells you whether one is inhabited or not. < 1278632083 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And if so, spits out a term of that type.) < 1278632098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Another thing I have discovered: most APIs suck. < 1278632105 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Duh. < 1278632122 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cares not for type systems < 1278632124 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Especially BSD sockets and stdio. < 1278632136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are the two worst parts of the C library. < 1278632143 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Dude, Curry-Howard. < 1278632170 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Do you care about propositions and proofs? < 1278632178 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you care about type systems. < 1278632182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the heck can't you create a FILE*? < 1278632194 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Fine, whatever. < 1278632203 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I suggest we write unstdio. < 1278632212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Gets very tempting. < 1278632229 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It will be based on abstract streams and therefore support string streams to boot. < 1278632231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would probably want a better string.h attached as well. < 1278632239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C strings are a bit annoying. < 1278632245 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it'll have a sane printfalike. < 1278632250 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah. < 1278632260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they make certain things very easy and certain things almost certainly done wrong. < 1278632263 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unstring and unstdio. < 1278632277 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278632280 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prefix can be "u" or "un". :P < 1278632332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's no, no, *no* reason why you shouldn't be able to, say, wrap zlib around a FILE* and magically have compressed IO. < 1278632366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = zlibify(f); // BAM! File compression! < 1278632372 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course. Define a zlib stream type, write a constrictor. < 1278632380 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*constructor. < 1278632381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something) < 1278632389 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, C needs interfaces. Badly. < 1278632405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And namespaces. < 1278632422 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's create UnC while we're at it. < 1278632483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nook, Kindle, what are the other options? < 1278632497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION got to play with a Nook a little today < 1278632502 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Buy a Sony reader or an IREX. < 1278632509 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No other options. < 1278632528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Nook bad? I mean, besides not so pleasant UI-ness? < 1278632541 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: many reasons < 1278632644 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: interf stream { struct S; void blah(S *); } impl stream { typedef struct zlibstream S; blah = zlibblah; } < 1278632660 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, unstdio is a good idea. < 1278632672 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djb wrote it long ago :P < 1278632693 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you build an unstdio I can use, I'll use it. < 1278632698 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use djb's. < 1278632701 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. < 1278632707 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :License? < 1278632715 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's libowfat... :P < 1278632723 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's GPL though iirc. < 1278632730 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that just a clone, too? < 1278632737 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. And? < 1278632742 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the interface that's broken, isn't it? < 1278632751 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, such as? < 1278632754 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libowfat is djb clone < 1278632762 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh -- my mistake. < 1278632773 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought it was a C library clone. < 1278632777 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, stdio. < 1278632789 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sorry but I have limited time; I believe I said reasons in past logs? < 1278632794 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1278632796 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I'm three for three today, maybe I should just vamoose. < 1278632815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not likely to share books with anyone, it is capable of reading PDF, and as for slowness.. um < 1278632820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C's standard library should just die. < 1278632826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed, but don't have a basis for comparision yet < 1278632835 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Would we need to support encodings? < 1278632836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember what else you said < 1278632851 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode is so complex it needs its own lib. < 1278632852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: If done properly? < 1278632862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At minimum all the UTFs and UCSs. < 1278632867 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, no ADVANTAGES over Sony. < 1278632869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: clearly you should only support uncodings < 1278632874 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But why? < 1278632885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Non-Unicode should die in a fire. < 1278632889 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's an ununicode (heh) < 1278632890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why. < 1278632902 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, zlib outputs Unicode < 1278632903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless someone makes something better... < 1278632905 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1278632913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Non-Unicode *text* encoding. < 1278632916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I buy a Sony eReader, would I be able to buy from the B&N ebookstore or whatever? < 1278632931 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why does that concern stdio? < 1278632936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, it has its own store? < 1278632943 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Dunno. Yes. < 1278632960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Do you want to be able to ask for X characters? < 1278632966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, you need Unicode handling. < 1278632966 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the touch is a gimmick, YMMV < 1278632982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, this could be done on *top* of a sane byte-based IO library, but still. < 1278632985 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but is that codepoints? Graphemes? < 1278633001 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should the result be normalised? Which form? < 1278633020 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there's a way to try it hands on < 1278633034 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Go to a shop. < 1278633052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also wants to try Kindle hands-on < 1278633061 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't. < 1278633068 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No kindle. Bad kitty. < 1278633071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: A character is a single codepoint plus zero or more codepoints representing combining characters. < 1278633080 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha. < 1278633082 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kitty shall not poop on that area of morality. < 1278633106 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, a grapheme? < 1278633112 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combining characters should die. < 1278633118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BORROW FROM YOUR LIBRARY" < 1278633119 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about languages like Arabic, eh? < 1278633120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: No. < 1278633123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Yes. < 1278633132 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: No, COMBINED characters should die. < 1278633142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arabic has very, very well-defined notions of characters. < 1278633144 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278633149 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with aliseiphone < 1278633166 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlaut + u, not umlaut-u < 1278633170 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: And yet, combining characters continue to live? Bizarreness. < 1278633175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just get calligraphically combined when *rendered*. < 1278633182 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What? < 1278633186 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logic. < 1278633202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Unless you want to end all languages with diacritics, yes. < 1278633212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: that's almost all of them) < 1278633234 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is weird < 1278633235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, thank you all for making strlen basically unimplementable. < 1278633245 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: coppro: Futhermore, let's undo Han unification. < 1278633250 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: lol. < 1278633253 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and admittedly we do have diacritics too) < 1278633253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: YES. < 1278633258 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: no comment < 1278633267 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check category is combining, if so carry < 1278633271 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise ++ < 1278633278 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was HARD. < 1278633281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Heck, encode all the Chinese characters using their components. < 1278633321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thereby allowing us to encode several billion characters using a few hundred codepoints. < 1278633340 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds attractive < 1278633344 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be in the shower < 1278633353 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... < 1278633361 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Bad combination of lines. < 1278633368 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad bad bad < 1278633378 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet appropriate somehow. < 1278633402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: You see, almost all of the Chinese characters are composed of other components. Making them much simpler than most people think. < 1278633408 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: We need to figure out the One True Way of C error handling. < 1278633423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ZOMG OVER NINE THOUSAND!", they think. < 1278633445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When there's only a small handful of things you need to learn to draw, and the rest is basically just spelling. < 1278633449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: setjmp obviously < 1278633456 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no. < 1278633466 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non local control flow is bad. < 1278633488 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You did say "True Way", not "Good Way". < 1278633496 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setjmp is True C. < 1278633505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Definitely not errno. < 1278633520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errno = awful < 1278633543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Perhaps error handling via callbacks? < 1278633564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. There's room for obnoxious complexity in there though. < 1278633565 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like functional code < 1278633581 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: { char c; while(ugetb(ustdin, &c)) uputb(ustdout, c); } < 1278633596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah, uh. Semi-functional C is the easiest way to make it readable. < 1278633598 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that doesn't handle errors.