< 1279324894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: So... can I blab about aliseOS to you, just to bounce ideas off and to try and crystalise the ideas in my head? < 1279324908 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Robin is still pretty darn vapourwareish, though -- especially if you take into consideration the amount of time I have available to spend on it. < 1279324911 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: By all means, do. < 1279325006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: So. I'm tired of language/OS distinctions. < 1279325008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top-level view: < 1279325021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Globalised, decentralised, encrypted net of objects. < 1279325030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disk caches this; specifically the parts you care about, mostly your stuff and other people's stuff you use. < 1279325033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAM caches disk. < 1279325048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main idea is this: Everything is a "process"/"object"/"agent" -- same thing. < 1279325062 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, with you so far. < 1279325069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are flat values in stasis with procedures; they are living objects responding to messages like Erlang servers. They do both jobs. < 1279325136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These objects ... < 1279325143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware is an object. < 1279325150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2" is an object. < 1279325159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The string "2" is an object. < 1279325168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rich text document containing the default-formatted "2" is an object. < 1279325175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What in Unix would be a running process, is an object. < 1279325181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Services are objects. < 1279325191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every object has its namespace -- with local and "global" variables. < 1279325200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Security is simple: Objects cannot access other objects that would let them do naughty things. < 1279325226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All objects are scheduled: this means that even an essay you wrote ten years ago is being "scheduled", though of course since it's not being called upon to do anything it will never actually be scheduled. < 1279325232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1279325237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Any questions? < 1279325274 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What distinguishes between an object which is "flat" and one which is "living"? Under what conditions (if any) can an object transition from one to the other? < 1279325290 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, to me, is one of the harder bits < 1279325297 0 :jillsmitt!~quassel@82.200.254.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279325298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing. Nothing at all. < 1279325301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are the same. < 1279325313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An object gets scheduled to run some code if some other object has called upon it; sent it a message. < 1279325315 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the "scheduled" part, then? OK. < 1279325331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This way we get the "synchronous" OOP stuff blended with the "asynchronous" process stuff. < 1279325350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because even if one method in an object -- one processing of a message -- is waiting for another object, the rest of its responders still run. < 1279325364 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1279325491 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, another question. Do you still hate files? :) < 1279325502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Do you? < 1279325514 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not sure. I hate parts of them, I think. < 1279325521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still do. Mostly. < 1279325601 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like that your objects are (and I'm using this quite loosely) "Platonic" in the sense that they don't really exist anywhere, they're just cached (on disks and/or ram) and could be cached multiple places. < 1279325621 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine you deal with discrepancy with hashes of some kind... < 1279325628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Encryption ensures that nobody can peek at your process, etc. < 1279325636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fuzzy on the global decentralised object net atm. < 1279325641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard, that bit. < 1279325771 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can get rid of key->value storage, conceptually, in my head, and a filesystem is basically such a thing where keys look like "/home/cpressey/foo.txt" and values look like octet-strings. But it should be broken down to that point, and rebuilt. There is too much baggage... < 1279325799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: key->value storage: also known as "variables" < 1279325822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why global variables suck; everything should be relative, this provides security by not providing certain components to an object when you initialise it < 1279325831 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "contexts" to some folks. < 1279325840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "object slots". etc. < 1279325916 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What provides security, to me, is some notion of sandboxing. But that could take many forms, only one of which is lying to your process about what is "actually global". < 1279325933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xach.livejournal.com/257931.html ;; Naggum's library for sale < 1279325955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: sandboxing -- putting things in a place where they can't access bits of the outer system that they could harm < 1279325968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can we achieve this? If there are no global variables and contexts are always passed in, < 1279325977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we can simply give it a context with only those components we want it to be able to use < 1279325979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada: sandboxed < 1279325981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sandboxed. < 1279326011 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a sense, yes. I'm looking at it from a different angle. < 1279326028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My design strategy is "ruthlessly combine everything". < 1279326048 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If everything communicates via messages and we, like the State Police, open up and perhaps alter everyone's mail... < 1279326161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm more a fan of libertarian computing. :-) < 1279326254 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, well the political analogy is a bad one. < 1279326365 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uh. Insofar as it works, I *do* want something like totalitarian control over what processes on my hardware can and can't do. < 1279326377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1279326389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this is all very well: the hard part is providing a UI. < 1279326394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How, exactly, do you do permissions seamlessly? < 1279326397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you interact with an object? < 1279326398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1279326398 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really thought about networked or distributed issues at all. < 1279326443 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, I have only a REPL, which exposes a language, which can send messages. That's the very start. < 1279326465 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually, you need, or at least really want, something much better. < 1279326480 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't got to that point in thinking either. < 1279326486 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no. I did, once, a long time ago. < 1279326495 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was younger and stupider then. < 1279326503 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was kind of Mac-like. < 1279326512 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But far more orthogonal. < 1279326564 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything was a "unit" and could contain subunits, and you could browse through the hierarchy with a Finder-like UI, opening each up in turn... but this is very different. < 1279326593 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current thoughts are not so hierarchical. < 1279326656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think aliseOS is impossible. But given enough time you can approximate it to any desired accuracy... it's a computable real. < 1279326683 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, to some degree, you can describe a lot of idealistic projects like that. The reality will never quite match the vision. < 1279326728 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk, for all its crazy syntax that I don't like, is a pretty good approximation of what's in my head, as were the Lisp machines. < 1279326746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk's syntax isn't that esoteric. < 1279326750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its usage can be. < 1279326758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Lisp machines had proper filesystems. Unfortunately. < 1279326763 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mainly that I don't like it :/ < 1279326787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I never had you penned as the pipe-dream visionary type :P < 1279326798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about synergy, to some degree... some aspects they got, others, they didn't. < 1279326810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm not, really. I'm the hard-to-enterain type. < 1279326817 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I come up with things to entertain myself. < 1279326833 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*entertain, 2 lines back, of course. < 1279326886 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Designing "impossible" languages manages to entertain me where other things fall short. Designing "perfect" operating systems, sometimes entertains me too. < 1279326941 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1279326945 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moreso since you started talking about aliseOS, and since I seem to be cooling off on the esolang design front somewhat. < 1279326961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't give up on esolangs now! < 1279326969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're, like, a machine. Of esolangity. < 1279326978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's probably not driven by the same things that motivate you. < 1279326987 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, I'm not. < 1279327001 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just take a long time to ripen now :) < 1279327005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no mistake, I do this for fun too. I'd love to throw out all computers and just get aliseEverything ones, but I know that will never happen. < 1279327023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And really, I'm fine spending tons of time on something that nobody will ever really use, as long as I learn something and achieve something interesting. < 1279327029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's esolangs really, isn't it? < 1279327036 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. A good attitude. Yes. < 1279327045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You stopped making silly ones and started delving into heavy CS, that's why :-) < 1279327057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess some mathematics recently what with Burro. < 1279327069 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed, a bit heavier on that front now. < 1279327157 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost went down the academic path, but not being accepted into grad school anywhere kind of put the brakes on that. < 1279327159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 and Gerson Kerz are definitely the masters of the pointless language. < 1279327185 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoot, I had forgotten about Gerson. Yes. Oh my. < 1279327221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you regret remembering him? XD < 1279327236 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not at all. I mean, ... UNBABTIZED! < 1279327255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Gerson Kurz < 1279327318 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If programming languages were painting, Gerson and zzo38 would be master surrealists. < 1279327355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would oklopol be? < 1279327382 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What has oklopol done? I haven't seem him around much lately, he mainly seems to know far more about mathematics than me. < 1279327421 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thunderstorm is extremely loud < 1279327434 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... doesn't sound like a thunderstorm at all < 1279327467 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1279327482 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can this be the sound of the langoliers? < 1279327494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yes. < 1279327504 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf do we do now < 1279327516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: he's so far in academia that his language releases are very few < 1279327525 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/ < 1279327527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: but they are always works of purist art < 1279327533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that < 1279327533 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me a while to find that < 1279327542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of that coding section, everything after thue is his languages < 1279327548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's missing the latest one there < 1279327550 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1279327565 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1279327584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't in the language list... < 1279327633 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Clue is his, ain't it. < 1279327651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Toi < 1279327654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is his most recent lang < 1279327698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you know about clang's wonderfully helpful diagnostics? < 1279327701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Not always: < 1279327706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alib/lex.c:380:1: warning: control may reach end of non-void function [-Wreturn-type] < 1279327706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1279327706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1279327717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, which path. Would have been way more helpful < 1279327800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1279328025 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1279328027 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i dunno... I think oklopol is possibly one of the esolangers who, if esolangs are art (which they are), is inventing his own movement ;) < 1279328029 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm scared of the thunder < 1279328031 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold me < 1279328041 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand... I'm outta here. < 1279328050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: bye < 1279328058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think oklopol like < 1279328105 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take care alise < 1279328106 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1279328183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1279328183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1279328187 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1279328188 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1279328417 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279328417 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.76.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279328417 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1279328417 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279329023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABCDEFG, QQQQQQQ. < 1279329281 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup alise :| < 1279329298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soup < 1279329300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soup alise < 1279329491 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION covers alise in soup. < 1279329503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1279329522 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1279329523 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :| < 1279329528 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION licks the soup off alise. < 1279329561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Tiny Core Linux, SliTaz, Puppy Linux 4. Which should I try next? < 1279329654 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pls don't slit < 1279329668 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1279329680 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thunder was so hard the window vibrated < 1279329827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Lorem Ipsix. < 1279329836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :| < 1279329883 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279329998 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279329999 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279330060 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omfg < 1279330068 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you watch the sara silverman show? < 1279330125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the plus side, I did not need to reinstall Windows < 1279330143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the minus side, my a/v may be disabled, and I may have undone some system updates < 1279330154 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279330156 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279330174 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98Np9hNSIWo < 1279330290 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omfg so good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRIfGKrY0vE&feature=related < 1279330457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so not helpful :P < 1279330692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I may end up installing VS2010 < 1279330956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: TINY CORE SLITAZ OR PUPPY 4 YOU MUST DECIDE OR PAIN WILL BE UNLEASHED < 1279330959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERRIBLE TERRIBLE PAIN < 1279331191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks a few times < 1279331198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help and Support is completely broken for me < 1279331263 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick one by the dice if nobody else knows < 1279331458 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279331458 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279331461 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279331465 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279331717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no loss < 1279331810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it means I can't open Remote Assistance invitations < 1279331832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no loss < 1279331837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All these random things broken, I should do a system restore < 1279331848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I can have two versions of ARGOPT, standard-edition and web-edition. Web-edition also includes formatting man pages and a few other additional features over standard-edition. < 1279331850 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone remember "Check Out My Sweet Shirt, And Then Talk To Me Because I'm Awesome Day", and keep it holy. < 1279331876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What kind of day is that? < 1279331884 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VS2008 is broken, and that _is_ a loss to me < 1279331895 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also make CSPIDER (the third program after CTANGLE and CWEAVE) < 1279332171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ok < 1279332175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: ok < 1279332177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: < 1279332182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 9i < 1279332184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fg < 1279332200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ok < 1279332213 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you should reinstall < 1279332219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, no thanks < 1279332225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, VS? < 1279332242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might install 2010\ < 1279332252 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything, probably switch OS too while you're at it < 1279332275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no time this month < 1279332341 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, that means nothing :P you should still do what you should do < 1279332400 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do u use them for? < 1279332477 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's that literal programming stuff < 1279332771 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if you can use ctangle with the apple api < 1279332776 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if that's 'code generation' < 1279332779 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1279332822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tired~ < 1279332979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get Windows File Protection to SHUT THE FUCK UP about inserting a "CD2"? < 1279333141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using windows? < 1279333197 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Maybe you can use CWEB with the Apple API, I don't know, because I don't know about the Apple API. < 1279333222 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have this shit new thing about not using code generation tools. < 1279333223 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps Enhanced CWEB might be able to be used even if standard CWEB isn't, because Enhanced CWEB has some extra features < 1279333225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Android: Please stop being prone to random freezes < 1279333243 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use windows on an android? < 1279333248 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no surprise it doesn't work that well < 1279333265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does "code generation tools" include CHAOSPP and ORDERPP? < 1279333324 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: What thing? Are you refering to the iPhone? < 1279333337 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279333346 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CWEB won't work with Objective C anyways, as far as I know < 1279333390 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279333483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what about code-generation tools do they not want? < 1279333532 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea, is, don't use official development for iPhone (and App Store). If you need to write software for iPhone at all, you can jailbreak it. But better, don't use iPhone at all. < 1279333577 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Android or whatever else < 1279333591 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you don't have to worry about all the confusing Apple Developer programs and stuff < 1279333604 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use C too. < 1279333642 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: If you use C it will work. < 1279333661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use c for iphone afaik < 1279333665 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are not allowed to use it for code generation, you can still have a separpate program that converts it to CWEB program to make a printout, if you want a printout for it. < 1279333668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you call the objc intrinsics yourself < 1279333696 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: sure you can write C, you just need to wrap it in objc < 1279333697 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you will not be able to use a lot of the CWEB features if you do it this way < 1279333718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: missing context < 1279333728 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I have to eat too, you know. I will be back later (maybe) < 1279333734 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ok < 1279333912 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279334216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcane Sentiment needs more posts. < 1279334287 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1279334603 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279334781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E < 1279334783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1279335148 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1279335198 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279335234 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1279335236 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's crackin < 1279335254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crackinosity < 1279335261 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1279335274 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise do you have long hair? < 1279335318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very < 1279335323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1279335329 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you keep it neat? < 1279335343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard work and suffering < 1279335343 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like ultra-difficult for me < 1279335346 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1279335353 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do with it? < 1279335395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comb it. Wash it. < 1279335413 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do that < 1279335423 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually spend like 30 minutes a day washing it < 1279335437 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not good enough < 1279335440 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still sorta bushy < 1279335481 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often do you cut it? < 1279335570 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise??? < 1279335591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rarely < 1279335605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combing it is kinda the main thing :P I might just be lucky < 1279335610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably just have crappy hair ha ha < 1279335760 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can get it neat with some conditioner etc < 1279335761 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like < 1279335775 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the end of the day it's like hay < 1279335775 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1279335871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so comb it all the time < 1279335934 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i do < 1279335938 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not about that < 1279335945 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the hair breaks < 1279335949 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's like < 1279335963 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of hairs shorter than the rest < 1279335965 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know what i mean?? < 1279335980 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long is your hair anyways? < 1279335987 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show us a photo or something < 1279336000 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey wants to see < 1279336477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, cpressey doesn't. < 1279336971 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be silly < 1279336973 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :post a pic < 1279336992 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you straighten your hair? < 1279337002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stays straight by itself. < 1279337011 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like totally? < 1279337015 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even a slight wave? < 1279337025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1279337079 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice < 1279337082 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what color are they? < 1279337126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entering creepy territory < 1279337133 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1279337140 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine are brown < 1279337153 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's creepy about hair color? < 1279337230 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you totally shouldn't be ashamed of your hair alise. < 1279337380 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why alise has clammed up. < 1279337712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1279337728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: very dark brown, fwiw (basically black if you're retarded) < 1279337732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279337781 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh otay < 1279338241 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279338859 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1279339842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can has an awesomely typeset copy of The Time Machine. < 1279339843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1279339945 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1279339951 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what year is it from? < 1279340086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010. Typeset by pikhq. Not printed as of yet. < 1279340110 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww < 1279340167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. Proper typesetting is glee. < 1279340324 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what i meant with aww < 1279340777 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1279340809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Price people are suggesting on some freelance site for something to convert EXIT to MapInfo and ESRI: $1500 < 1279341463 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279341631 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that like a huge fucking amount of work? < 1279341673 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279341673 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279341688 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1279342202 0 :leBMD!~Batmanife@174-23-0-75.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279342225 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys, I'm working on my own language, and I was wondering if you could offer some feedback. < 1279342238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1279342275 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, here are my specifications: http://txtb.in/fQw < 1279342414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION detects an absence of flow control < 1279342439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, does the 1 command take the value as a following argument after the 0? < 1279342473 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one command just adds a 1 to the stack. < 1279342479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1279342540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, how? < 1279342546 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for flow control, I never really thought to add loops < 1279342550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm too oblivious to the formats? < 1279342556 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should do that.. < 1279342564 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you think you'll make it in 3 days < 1279342565 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it < 1279342580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leBMD: well currently it's basically little more than a four-functional calculator. < 1279342589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*four-function < 1279342591 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you reccomend for flow control? < 1279342603 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh! I've got it! < 1279342613 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I could have commands of 0's as well! < 1279342626 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :revision-time is a go-go. < 1279342891 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://txtb.in/fQx < 1279342905 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've edited it a good bit, and now it has loop commands < 1279343062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i detect that there is no way to go back to _before_ the previous loop tag. < 1279343124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it looks difficult to get to elements deep in the stack without deleting information < 1279343144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279343149 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000 - like 000, but takes the stack value and goes that many tags backward. < 1279343181 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basing this a lot on the way Piet and Befunge handle the stack. < 1279343300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I told someone that if I rewrite MegaZeux using Enhanced CWEB, I would remove online documentation, in favor of printed documentation. Someone thought that means Enhanced CWEB can't do online documentation and therefore it is worthless. < 1279343335 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wareya < 1279343410 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1279343464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the underload way, although that requires essentially putting code on the stack. in any case your stack commands are not enough to manipulate data enough for arbitrary programming, i think < 1279343486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the glass way, which is just crazy :D < 1279343674 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno about "not enough for arbitrary programming." I mean, Befunge -93 and Piet as it is both run on a very similar system of memory management. I could add file i/o, I've just been too lazy to think of creative ways to do that. < 1279343733 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1279343765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leBMD: i am not saying befunge's stack isn't powerful, i am saying you don't have enough of befunge's commands to get that full power < 1279343783 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you reccomned adding? < 1279343809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a swap command is obvious, and for full power you'd want a deep rotation command < 1279343856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you i don't quite remember how much befunge-93 has, does it have deep rotation? < 1279343889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge's way is essentially the forth way, i think < 1279343949 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge-93's way of using the stack was "hey, son, you should be happy with access to only the top two stack values at any given time *pimpslap*" < 1279343954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while a drop command would be convenient, you already _do_ have enough to simulate it < 1279343959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1279343989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case i would think befunge-93 depended on having put and get to the memory as well < 1279344044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although however, two values _is_ enough to prove turing-completeness via a minsky machine, assuming bignums < 1279344067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case you still need swap to get to more than one value :) < 1279344139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload also has only top two values manipulation _but_ the way it can incorporate values into code on the fly allows it to get around that. suitably awkwardly. < 1279344324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can think of it as stack elements containing other stack elements < 1279344335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that too < 1279344350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however some of those are code, anyhow < 1279344359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and need to be < 1279344400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (a)(b)(c)a~a~*~S^~SS < 1279344400 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc < 1279344459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that underload program gets to the (a) on the bottom first by wrapping (b) and (c) up into a program to put them back on the stack after we've handled (a) < 1279344502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the "program to put them back on the stack" looks like ((b)(c)) < 1279344524 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I gotta go get some sleep. Seeya! < 1279344528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1279344530 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the advice, btw. :) < 1279344537 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzz... < 1279344673 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-219.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1279345158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Joy's "dip" operator is implemented in underload as ~a*^ < 1279345166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* "dip" combinator < 1279345174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the mechanism I normally use to access lower stack entries < 1279345202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "swap second and third" is "[swap] dip" in Joy or (~)~a*^ in Underload < 1279345256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you're using two stacks, the data stack and the call stack < 1279345603 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h22.47.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279345615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth also uses (at least) two stacks < 1279345644 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...huh, I hate to ghost myself. < 1279345678 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1279345684 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I wonder why my nick was still in use. < 1279345701 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I have an impersonator? o_o < 1279345964 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why < 1279345985 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some people impersonated me before too (but not on Freenode) < 1279346365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1279346578 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279347272 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279347476 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279347606 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1279347684 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just trolled Haskell < 1279347690 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell, that is < 1279348157 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279348251 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279348268 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Seeeeeya < 1279348316 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1279348471 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1279348741 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-19-47.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1279349004 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279349067 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1279349093 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279351164 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279351511 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279351971 0 :SevenInc1Bread!~adam@h176.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279352020 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1279352313 0 :SevenInc1Bread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279352370 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h98.41.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279352626 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279352721 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279352740 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1279352825 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h98.41.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279353310 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279353599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1279353600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1279354066 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1279354171 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1279354874 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@c-71-237-176-82.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279355150 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279355933 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279356148 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-238-1.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1279356179 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate the interntet < 1279356185 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet too. < 1279357821 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-35-96.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1279358266 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279358364 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279358572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1279359466 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279359563 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279360666 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279360761 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279361660 0 :tombom!tombom@82.11.97.182 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279361666 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1279361666 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1279362490 0 :Wamanuz5!~wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279363612 0 :SevenInc1Bread!~adam@h2.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279363965 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279364318 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1279366954 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279367025 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed the string formatting a bit < 1279367047 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can watch it at: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_12/cwebstringformat.png < 1279367084 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion of this new formatting? < 1279367322 0 :SevenInc1Bread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown < 1279367333 0 :SevenInc1Bread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1279367348 0 :SevenInc1Bread!~adam@h2.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279367977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279369076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go ask your mother. < 1279369438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not cook the radio while it is switched off. < 1279369544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not brag the control. < 1279369576 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't squish spiders in the bathtub. Use a sink! < 1279369579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't touch spiders in a sink. Use a bathtub! < 1279369610 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When my desk is clean and organized, I can't find anything. < 1279369655 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True wisdom does not consist of beans. < 1279369734 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free will is caused by the Heizenberg Uncertainty Principle. < 1279369807 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody can or should be sane. < 1279369825 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang yourself by the ropes. < 1279370002 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't apply hairspray if there are cockroaches nearby. < 1279370040 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which ones are good and which ones are doubleplusungood? < 1279370182 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Religion is not the opium of the people. Opium is. < 1279371762 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1279374725 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1279374780 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279375876 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279375970 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279376205 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1279376655 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1279377075 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279377172 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279378684 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.76.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279378695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, < 1279378697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hi. < 1279378750 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1279378832 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279379417 0 :tombom__!tombom@86.16.12.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279379538 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279380491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Atheists Use Blow-Dryers to De-Baptize" -- ABC News < 1279380558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cocoa futures for July delivery jumped 1.5pc on the Liffe exchange to more than £2,588 this week" < 1279380570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone just bought 241,000 tonnes of cocoa beans < 1279380732 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 259 seconds < 1279381653 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279382322 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1279382363 0 :FireFly!~firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1279382365 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1279382365 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1279382712 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279382867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1279383006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whew, it is hot in here. < 1279383178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ping. < 1279383224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnip. < 1279383244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has been absurdly hot in here for the week. < 1279383371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is there a way to boot Linux from inside Linux, having the new Linux replace the old Linux, but providing ... something to the inner Linux? OK, I'll be more precise. < 1279383393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiny Core Linux only supports Ethernet by default. ATM, I only have a WiFi connection. Can I boot Tiny Core Linux natively but somehow bootstrap it so that its eth0 is actually WiFi? < 1279383401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the answer is "no" and I should use a VM, but that's so dull. < 1279383450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's the kexec system call. < 1279383472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But can it make everything else natively Tiny Core, and ONLY override eth0? < 1279383483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ... like, boot it, but fake one piece of hardware somehow. < 1279383498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Probably not. < 1279383509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think kexec can fake anything; it just boots a new kernel, and the new kernel has the (unenviable) task of making any sense out of the hardware. < 1279383524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kexec is booting without going through the BIOS, really. < 1279383527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1279383534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I want to try TCL natively! < 1279383651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: heat wave here too. of course this is by norwegian standards, so you others probably wouldn't even notice :D < 1279383667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you just should hack it to work with wifi. < 1279383694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(26 celsius was the forecast) < 1279383722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't actually have an outdoor thermometer < 1279383729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+30 °C here today, according to them forecasts. < 1279383733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 26 celsius? That's... considered hot? < 1279383763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 35 currently. And this is not an unusual temperature. < 1279383791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 30 is considered very hot. 35 i think may never actually have been measured in norway < 1279383800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+26 would be considered pretty warm in Finland too. < 1279383825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish it were only 26 here. < 1279383830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, just this week they measured the highest temperature in Finland since the 1930s; I think it was +34.2 or some-such. < 1279383876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The highest summer temperatures in the Finnish interior are from 32°C to 35°C. Near the sea and in the islands, temperatures over 30°C are extremely rare; the highest temperature ever recorded in Helsinki is 31.6°C. The highest temperature ever recorded is from July 9, 1914, when 35°C was exceeded in several places (the maximum being 35.9°C in Turku)." < 1279383881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From the local meteorological institute.) < 1279383970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the meteorological institute has their own, combined Twitter account. How 2.0 of them. < 1279384099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darned Scandinavians, with your not-flesh-melting temperatures. < 1279384163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's like 23 here or sth < 1279384166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i hate heat < 1279384169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 26 ouch < 1279384172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way too hot :D < 1279384179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm totally designed for svalbard < 1279384180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Comfy. < 1279384186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not without breeze < 1279384191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breeze is mandatory at all times < 1279384195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh i guess britain has even less really hot weather, then < 1279384203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh we get 26 often enough < 1279384207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just awful < 1279384244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: on the flip side this means we generally don't have any air condition, so the outside temperature eventually creeps in if long enough < 1279384287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lasting long < 1279384299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is norway usually nice and cold < 1279384302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1279384303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid question < 1279384305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is :D < 1279384311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok does it normally have a breeze < 1279384316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so see you in a minute brb plane < 1279384323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to get down to 15-16 again tomorrow, last i checked < 1279384331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very unstable this summer < 1279384348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely < 1279384356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breezosity? < 1279384383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bit of wind today, which helps < 1279384387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Lunch-table-speculation has it that if you're looking for company, now is a good time to get air conditioning at home. One (female) colleague, for example, has spent last week sleeping at her "almost-boyfriend" mostly because of his air-conditioning thing. < 1279384400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1279384443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason. < 1279384457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what she said, anyway! < 1279384500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what temperature is it in Helsinki at the moment? < 1279384596 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At 18:20 local time (so ~15 minutes ago) it was 25.6 °C. < 1279384641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomorrow's daily high has been forecasted to be 29. Phew. < 1279384680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ouch. But you're bordered with Russia, how do you get warmer weather than Norway? :-) < 1279384701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches The IT Crowd, wonders why 8+ doesn't exist. ...Or does it? < 1279384711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's 33°C in Moscow right now. < 1279384720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wow. < 1279384727 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Farther from ocean. < 1279384733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Street Countdown. Good idea. < 1279384791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Shut up you. You and your... your LOGIC. < 1279384900 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That nearer to ocean climate tends to be moist, relatively warm winters and relatively cool summers and farther inland climate tends to be dry, relatively cold winters and relatively warm summers is covered in basic geography lessions. :-) < 1279384920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1279384926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was playing on the Russia-is-cold stereotype. < 1279384928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So shush. :| < 1279384946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually, it's the Siberia-is-mother-fucking-cold stereotype. < 1279384949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which of course it is. < 1279384972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Russia's large. ;) < 1279384983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think napoleon would disagree it's _just_ siberia. if he were alive, that is. < 1279384991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Overnumerousness" is now a word. < 1279385000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Winters, too. < 1279385014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They get cold winters. < 1279385416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Freebase is usurped into Google. < 1279385421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Google are now officially evil. < 1279385433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're basically buying everyone with anything to do with ... organising information. < 1279385479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1279385481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yak Linux. Hmm. < 1279385682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... /me tries to think of what to do first. < 1279385685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard, organising this stuff! < 1279385724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well clearly you need to shave off all nonessentials < 1279385779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way ahead of you; the slogan is already "comes pre-shaven" < 1279385789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1279385799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what :( < 1279385815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ACKNOWLEDGEMENT < 1279385867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "O KAY" sounds sarcastic :P < 1279385908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't it be self-ironical? < 1279385933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1279385980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHEESH < 1279386020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHULTRY < 1279386046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a moore and shultry taft'ernoone, agleisic Edwardson marted his fies. < 1279386087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume that is a quote from somewhere. < 1279386134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trattingly nobling his ardeous grats, he blopped his firnal harket firmly unto his vuletine. < 1279386136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nope < 1279386234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok just channeling vogons, then < 1279386238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, I am sick of the sorteous numblitudes; how I crope for nimely tokes," he ploted, markenly. He serfined the opacious roats, and dellired the blumptious cattafries. < 1279386308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On his tomely way, he gabunted, spotting a frolitous female, dressed in wodersome red; "good harpentime," he managed, before abuting to the ground. < 1279386366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My dear, my dear, what rokenpokes you?" inquired the jonimilly lady, as she helped Edwardson to his feet. "My name is Marketrina; your company is tunastious." < 1279386406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why thank you, dear lady," replied Edwardson, now sarkly from his fall, "mine is Edwardson; a humble and furminstine name it is, but mine it is also." < 1279386495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's the most potaneous name I've heard all day," said Marketrina, "though it is also the first. May I consider your tressling lamenote, and gorminelly invite you to my sermibone home?" < 1279386538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edwardson was ruvenised. "Yes, yes, of course, very dram of you, thank you good lady," he said. < 1279386566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Have I finally gone completely insane? < 1279386600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on that evidence < 1279387116 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: huh, this system is beinbg rebooted < 1279387155 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279387158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION implements infinitely-long binary numbers in hs < 1279387163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Num = Zero Num | One Num < 1279387164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversed < 1279387180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say pos = fix Zero, and neg = fix One < 1279387195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Zero $ One $ One $ pos = 0b110 < 1279387211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Zero $ One $ One $ pos = 0b...1111111110 < 1279387215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1279387218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Zero $ One $ One $ neg = 0b...1111111110 < 1279387221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka 2-adic integers < 1279387225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1279387233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just infinite-bit two's complement really < 1279387235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 2-adic integers < 1279387242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm doing it for the purpose of lambda calculus though < 1279387248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering how nice this representation will be < 1279387250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pure, certainly < 1279387256 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279387402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: say what's (x = Zero $ One $ x), p-adically? < 1279387408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. ...0101010101010 < 1279387681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kinda confusing :-D < 1279387689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly not an integer though < 1279387723 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1279387740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh it's some rational < 1279387740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. -1/3, i think. < 1279387746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icic < 1279387755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait no < 1279387759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so a 2-adic /integer/ is one reverse-ending in 0... or 1... < 1279387768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in haskell is impossible to check, fun < 1279387789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2*x + x + 1 = -1 => x = -2/3 < 1279387790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 2-adic integers are probably the easiest way to impl rationals though :D < 1279387792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed the +1 < 1279387799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you just use binary addition/etc < 1279387801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*addition, etc. < 1279387856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you don't have division by 2, you need to allow finite number of digits after the point to get a field < 1279387871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn :-) < 1279387878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i forgot the 2-adics are fucked up. < 1279387886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still if you only use them for integers < 1279387888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty cool < 1279387911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the proof (from hakmem) that "algebra is 2's complement" < 1279387921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let A = ...111111_2 < 1279387941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A + 1 = ...000000_2, therefore A = -1 < 1279387948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit silly, but still < 1279387973 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1279388063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: okay, now what's (reversed) 0101110010111011110001001101010111100110111101111... :D < 1279388064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1279388078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...1111011110110011110101011001000111101110100111010 < 1279388085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 2-adic champernowne < 1279388086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1279388089 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.76.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279388144 0 :jillsmitt!~quassel@95.58.183.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279388186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi jillsmitt < 1279388202 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hello < 1279388220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is that sequence < 1279388250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: champernowne in base n = naturals of base n concatenated after point < 1279388252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1279388255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base 10 champernowne = < 1279388264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... < 1279388273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.01234567891011 ... < 1279388278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was that for base 2 when reversed < 1279388284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since we should start/"end" with 0, 1, 10, etc) < 1279388303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you are missing 1, then < 1279388306 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like prgmr will have free space again soon. < 1279388311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sorry < 1279388313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually 0.1234 < 1279388321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: with ipv6? < 1279388341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case the first 0 should be a 1 < 1279388342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so yeah, what's ....001110110 in 2-adics, I wonder :-) < 1279388347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no because we don't have points < 1279388350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or last) < 1279388351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the 0 has to be somewhere < 1279388359 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They all have ipv6 < 1279388363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: nope < 1279388364 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New and old < 1279388366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not the ones they switched to recently < 1279388372 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly? < 1279388379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: or at least you only got a static ipv5 < 1279388381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ipv4 < 1279388387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Native IPv6 support available upon request. < 1279388387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Static IPv4 address included < 1279388388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that's new < 1279388391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to just be static ipv4 < 1279388398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before that IPV6 FOR EVERYONE HAVE A FUCKING PARTY < 1279388404 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : inet6 addr: 2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe59:ad41/64 Scope:Global < 1279388406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case i think rationals are always periodic, so not that. heck if i know if it's even possible to compute < 1279388419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: furthermore < 1279388420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv6 will at the moment only work for hosts at the svtix colocation and Fremont. By default you will only get one IPv6 address, which has to be manually configured. This manual only covers the configuration for Debian GNU/Linux, but setup for other distributions should be similar. < 1279388421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes < 1279388424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you got it before this change < 1279388424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in closed form) < 1279388434 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1279388442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The global prefix for one of the subnets is 2001:470:21:20::/64 and the other is 2001:470:21:31::/64. Your IPv6 address is the prefix + your IPv4 address. < 1279388449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so your static ipv6 address is not "really". < 1279388455 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279388513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: which plan are you on? < 1279388530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, are the problems of *Ego* server-related or you suck at coding related? < 1279388540 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The $20 < 1279388545 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I suck at coding related. < 1279388548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :P < 1279388550 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server's never gone wonky with them. < 1279388559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote alise: I suck at coding related. < 1279388566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if HackEgo was working it would be a nice quote. < 1279388567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the irony < 1279388567 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :195| alise: I suck at coding related. < 1279388569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1279388603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... therefore i will now demise the kratological! < 1279388658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ... who feels like hacking up 386BSD? < 1279388680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure Gregor thinks that writing a USB stack for 386BSD is a great idea. < 1279388830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1279388843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Um, http://www.386bsd.org/ is like the worst site ever and I can't find a link to the code. < 1279388851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny to write web pages like they are code lol < 1279388856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Urgh. < 1279388861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is revolting. < 1279388879 0 :atrapado!~roper@46.188.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279388974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: seems like the code isn't available < 1279389025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is getting harder and harder to track down a download source for 386BSD as it too was swept up in the great lawsuit of AT&T vs BSDI/CSRG although it was never named in the suit. Not to mention it was quickly superseded by the FreeBSD & NetBSD projects. It is very unstable in the 0.1 release, there is clearly some issues with it's "install" program with regards to allocating swap space, and in general with the OS's swapping routines. Also because of the o < 1279389025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verlap any attempt to install on a disk larger then 100MB results in a corrupted file system that will no longer boot after the eventual file corruption. It's quite sad, but if you search the news group at the time, there was all kinds of issues with the install process, and with it's stability. < 1279389031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can find 386BSD on the mirror site http://www.oldlinux.org/Linux.old/distributions/386BSD/0.1/ < 1279389031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1279389050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.oldlinux.org/Linux.old/distributions/386BSD/ < 1279389054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wanna hack this up? :D < 1279389142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.oldlinux.org/Linux.old/distributions/386BSD/0.1/386BSD/ whatare these? < 1279389144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floppy disk images? < 1279389145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what are < 1279389265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1279389386 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :240640 is a strange size ... < 1279389433 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if you can get it to read the disk using BIOS calls only, then you don't need to implement a USB stack. < 1279389435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... < 1279389445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What? Why? < 1279389452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legacy emulation? < 1279389455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't support flash drives. < 1279389464 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Most BIOSes capable of booting from USB will do legacy emulation. 2) You can use e.g. MEMDISK even if they don't. < 1279389476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... they'll show USB flash drives as disks? < 1279389482 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Through BIOS only. < 1279389483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. Now what about cameras? < 1279389486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microphones? < 1279389489 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you're punked :P < 1279389493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fans? < 1279389495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovers? < 1279389498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coffee makers? < 1279389503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dildos? < 1279389506 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB --- DAMN < 1279389509 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THAT < 1279389514 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DID YOU READ MY PERVERTED MIND < 1279389528 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually I was going to say "USB-powered vibrators" but it's all the same) < 1279389529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teledildonics, man. Ted Nelson has always done it before you. Always. < 1279389537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vibrators = dildos, good to know. < 1279389555 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well no, but they fall under the category "sex toys" :P < 1279389555 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279389576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgasmatron < 1279389609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp://ftp-archive.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-Archive/old-releases/ awesomeeee < 1279389629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Here, you figure out WTF format those sources are in. Also how to get the floppies in the other directory working. < 1279389636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll ... research old FreeBSD releases. < 1279389650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(research, n. masturbate furiously to) < 1279389656 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279389693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to FreeBSD! This document has been put together in an effort < 1279389693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make initial installation of the system from floppy as easy as possible. < 1279389693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have either a SCSI cdrom drive or one of the supported Mitsumi < 1279389693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDROM drives you can use the cdins-*.flp to install you system with. This < 1279389693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is much easier than using the 3 floppy install method. < 1279389698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD install in 1993. Wowzers. < 1279389750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ you're meant to burn ftp://ftp-archive.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-Archive/old-releases/i386/1.0-RELEASE/ to a CD, then use one of the boot floppies. < 1279389768 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1279389770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Burn" < 1279389780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean you're supposed to pay an exorbitant price for one to be pressed. < 1279389784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1279389789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think ftp://ftp-archive.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-Archive/old-releases/i386/1.0-RELEASE/ is the files you need. < 1279389796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has the files < 1279389806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't sell 1.0 any more, as far as I know :P < 1279389828 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279389960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So does that CD just contain the contents of three floppies?! < 1279389996 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1279390007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was all they could fit on a CD in 1993 :P < 1279390145 0 :jillsmitt!~quassel@95.58.183.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279390158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this laptop is so awesome < 1279390309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAR OERJAN, COPPRO, AND WHOEVER HERE IS FROM BALTIMORE: < 1279390311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/VrtUT.jpg < 1279390335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If you concatenate all those SRC01.00 .. 61 files together, you end up with a compress'd cpio archive. < 1279390347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay. You do that. < 1279390356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's still fetching. < 1279390392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Deewiant could do the downloading part. < 1279390400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it did finish already. < 1279390415 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you want me to do with the contents, though? < 1279390435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads 10 MiB. Hello, graphical Linux. < 1279390440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Concatenate them and peek what's inside. :-P < 1279390448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested to know if it has, say, a build system. < 1279390497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, here's a file listing: http://sprunge.us/ZQGI < 1279390510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Makefile in /usr/src, at least. < 1279390521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it enough to build a floppy? < 1279390633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And will it blend? < 1279390667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about that. There *is* a usr/obj/sys.386bsd/i386/floppy/ directory with some basic-ish tools (fsck, init, sh, etc.); one would assume it's built from usr/src. < 1279390710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I tell QEMU to resize to whatever resolution the screen is? < 1279390713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the VM < 1279390744 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhh, it's supposed to do that automatically, and regardless of what you tell it to do otherwise. < 1279390755 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279390757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it ... isn't. < 1279390772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beat it with a stick. < 1279390773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it FAIL. < 1279390787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then... Demand that Project Gutenberg publish books using TeX! < 1279390803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is just like SeX BUT WITH A T < 1279390807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND EVERYTHING IS BETTER WITH TEA. < 1279390810 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a lot more typesetting. < 1279390811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.d. < 1279390812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*D. < 1279390819 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean Q.E.T. < 1279390856 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279390862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just though I would point out that Tiny Core is fucking X11-HAVING, INTERNET-CONNECTED LINUX IN TEN MEGABYTES. < 1279390867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With glib fucking C. < 1279390877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed glib does fuck C but I mean glib-fucking-c. < 1279390884 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiny Core is awesome. < 1279390898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes it is. < 1279390908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is Puppy Linux and SliTaz and all those ilk. < 1279390918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If you want the "Tiny 386BSD" floppy, the CAREWARE.INFO file instructs you to send a (3.5" or 5.25" HD formatted) floppy and a self-addressed stamped envelope to "Tiny 386BSD, DDJ, 411 Borel Avenue, San Mateo, CA. 94402 USA"; but it's written in 1992, so... < 1279390931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Rather, I want to modify 386BSD and recompile the distro. < 1279390943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call it 686BSD X-P < 1279390955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSDM; the M is for modern < 1279390998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Man. < 1279391023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads firefox into ram < 1279391025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wat < 1279391043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIREFOX IN RAM has there ever a better phrase been uttered? aww tiny core doesn't have firefox < 1279391073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well... the instructions do say that (after several configuration steps and building everything with 'make') the system "may be tested by copying into a floppy that holds a minimal set of utilies (e.g. fixit floppy), --" < 1279391077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installin' midori to ram and shit < 1279391084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay. < 1279391104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So basically ... it is probably possible to produce a modified 386BSD distro? < 1279391109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, you, try and run make. :P < 1279391112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest using bsdmake, obviously. < 1279391137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a bit suspicious of what sort of compiler it would like. < 1279391166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc. Probably. < 1279391171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc might just work. < 1279391212 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- runs the config program on a host description file (e.g. config SUMNER) --"; then I go "hmm, what's a SUMNER?" and take a peek at the config file: "# Thos Sumner's 50Mhz 486" < 1279391216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, okay." < 1279391258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: xD < 1279391268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite know where the "config" program is, though. < 1279391280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe the makefile would give some hints? Here, how big is the cpio? < 1279391287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you just gzip it and upload it somewhere? < 1279391298 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what is the conception of this channel? < 1279391322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jillsmitt: esoteric programming languages & computing; let me guess: you are here for the magic? < 1279391362 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nope, i just newbee in developers world < 1279391382 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic is a int64 under ms vs 2005 < 1279391397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://zem.fi/~fis/src01.cpio.bz2 is ~7.3 megabytes, not bad. And the "config" program seems to be in usr/src/usr.sbin/config/; there is a slight chance a top-level "make" would build it. (Those test-on-a-floppy instructions were for the sys.386bsd part, which looks kernely to me.) < 1279391402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jillsmitt: well do you know of brainfuck, intercal or befunge? < 1279391427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those languages designed to be obscure and impossible, that's basically our forte; though we're rarely on topic and when we are, it tends to be about hopelessly theoretical languages < 1279391428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's fun here < 1279391440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well give it a go then :D < 1279391450 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: only a couple of words.. it is a low-level language, kernel programming or something like that < 1279391464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jillsmitt: mm < 1279391472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jillsmitt: basically, esoteric language = impractical, difficult language < 1279391478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's more than that but that is the basic idea < 1279391489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now we're trying to run old operating systems from the early 90s :-P < 1279391504 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: very cool < 1279391529 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: can i ask any documentation? < 1279391548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jillsmitt: sure -- documentation for what? < 1279391562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has pages for all esoteric languages, more or less < 1279391572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wow i'm actually running midori from ram, unpossible < 1279391583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a befunge bot, that's very accessible for new folks too. < 1279391586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1279391586 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1279391595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just take a peek at that. < 1279391606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be evil fizzie :P < 1279391624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is this the whole source thing < 1279391625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just 01 < 1279391650 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i want to download some off-line docs about your language < 1279391666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jillsmitt: which language? we have many < 1279391670 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can copy the wiki files if you want to < 1279391675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The whole, all concatenated. < 1279391680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right < 1279391682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any bsdmake success? < 1279391696 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also print them if you want to < 1279391727 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... sorry, english is not my native, brainfuck i think =) alise. i will read wiki pages right now < 1279391746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://sprunge.us/Mgeb for a top-level invocation; I guess the world is supposed to be built on a BSD system. There's not too much of documentation there. < 1279391747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jillsmitt: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck is the place for brainfuck < 1279391757 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1279391764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, maybe try and build just the kernel? < 1279391792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: of course the sure thing is to use the pre-build 386bsd floppies to build it < 1279391796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pre-built < 1279391796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I need the "config" tool to turn a host config file into a kernel build-dir. < 1279391804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1279391813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what's one more floppy between friends? < 1279391828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's of course possible config'd build cleanly on a non-BSD too. < 1279391833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.oldlinux.org/Linux.old/distributions/386BSD/0.1/386bsd-Bootflp/ may be it < 1279391841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the floppies are the two files with the same size < 1279391850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think you need to assemble the other cpios http://www.oldlinux.org/Linux.old/distributions/386BSD/0.1/386BSD/ < 1279391858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the boot floppies will prompt for those, i think < 1279391861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gogogo :D < 1279391873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll gogogo to sauna now, sorrey. < 1279391878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT FINLAND < 1279391896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for building just "config" stand-alone: http://sprunge.us/UePD < 1279391900 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have found out how to copy a disk image using DefineDosDevice, in Windows. < 1279391910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So. < 1279391981 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279392060 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i have "The precondition on the request for the URL / evaluated to false." on http://www.esolangs.org/ < 1279392075 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279392076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jillsmitt: huh < 1279392082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jillsmitt: maybe it is blocking you for some reason < 1279392085 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/10.07.17 see the top please answer < 1279392103 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jillsmitt: I got that once based on User-Agent string, try changing it < 1279392115 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the User-Agent string is not allowed to contain a URL < 1279392117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the \n is very ugly < 1279392121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I suggest "n" in a diamond shape < 1279392122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a square < 1279392123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or circle < 1279392139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I also suggest that the + appears above the <- < 1279392140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How do I put letters in a diamond shape? < 1279392146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure, in Plain TeX. < 1279392162 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes I did want the + above the arrow, but I couldn't do that so I put the arrow above instead. < 1279392166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: one thing I dislike about CWEB is the |_| for space < 1279392172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just put a normal space there < 1279392231 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I might fix it to put a normal space < 1279392339 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279392392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sftp is terribly secure < 1279392409 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often use sftp at Free Geek < 1279392426 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as ssh < 1279392427 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... < 1279392475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Are there any self-deprecating Norwegians? Why is it that every Norwegian is all oh, look at the beautiful view and fantastic life I have and yet there aren't any "I hate Norway it is a horrible place". < 1279392475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be more miserable.]] < 1279392509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok i'm on a plane now < 1279392561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey it's a horrible place, it's just everywhere else is worse *ducks* < 1279392577 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most of the security is that those computers cannot be accessed from outside of Free Geek (except the wiki). < 1279392616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: wait, literally? < 1279392622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1279392713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dares not ask < 1279392755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: be afraid. be very afraid < 1279392770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1279392777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: >:) < 1279392795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can't really sneak up on someone with a plane, this is the only issue < 1279392827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear someone called al-qaida has had some success with it < 1279392868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*qaeda < 1279392876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok so al-qaida is technically valid. < 1279392890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm fucking with you, i'm not on a plane < 1279392897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think arabic transliteration varies according to the phases of the planets < 1279392906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1279392950 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?? < 1279392969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not literally < 1279393016 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1279393048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it does depend on the number of sheep in new zealand though < 1279393061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo 37 < 1279393086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279393096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: although 38 if the number of sheep is 37 < 1279393100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creating the 37 Scenario < 1279393108 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the way that octal and hexadecimal characters are printed? < 1279393110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where every transliteration consists purely of consonants) < 1279393240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1279393779 0 :calamari!~kidsquid@206.29.188.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279393799 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1279393877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1279393879 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: What is your opinion of printing octal/hexadecimal characters in C string, in the printout? < 1279393984 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a strange question lol < 1279394019 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1279394110 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, is there a controversy? lol < 1279394822 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes see the picture. And see if the other things (such as \n and so on) are good. Do you know how to put "n" in a circle or diamond shape in TeX? (Instead of overtyping the backslash and n) < 1279395239 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Donald Knuth's telephone number (or address)? After I finished writing some things in Enhanced CWEB I want to see whether or not he prefer the Enhanced CWEB or the standard CWEB < 1279395373 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-250.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279395400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/email.html < 1279395475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK thanks for the address < 1279395498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it amuses me that he appears to use TeX for his website. < 1279395554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does he? I thought it is just HTML (possibly hand-coded) < 1279395579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what the codes for that page looks like to me < 1279395596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the usage of `` '' for quotes that does it. < 1279395650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, that may just be a Knuth-ism. < 1279395653 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He might enter those things in HTML just because it is also used in TeX < 1279395705 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes that is what I mean < 1279395772 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think if I wrote a letter they would send a reply in 3 months? < 1279395787 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To the return address on the envelope) < 1279395794 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how many stamps will it need? < 1279395824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He almost certainly will reply, and I dunno what the appropriate postage is. < 1279395835 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if someone I know is going there soon I will ask them to just put the envelope in their mailbox directly < 1279395835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're in Canada, correct? < 1279395841 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I am in Canada < 1279395852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, that makes it difficult. < 1279395862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly doubt the US postal service likes Canadian postage. < 1279395914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But isn't Canada Post supposed to replace the stamps with United States stamps if I put it in a Canadian mailbox and the address is United States? < 1279395931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... No? < 1279395947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how international post works. < 1279396010 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then how does international post works? < 1279396025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reply_coupon There we go. Try to get one of these. < 1279396083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for the return mail < 1279396090 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so that is how it works. OK < 1279396114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when you send it *there*, you simply pay sufficient postage. (your post office would probably know how much "sufficient postage" is.) < 1279396145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And international treaties make it so that postage "just works". < 1279396151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, international treaties! < 1279396251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wouldn't the replier need to visit a post office to convert those into stamps, though? < 1279396277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as simple as just dropping it into a mailbox < 1279396300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; it's the best you can do for sending international postage, though. < 1279396349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. A Canadian post office *might* have US postage for sale. < 1279396354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(big maybe, though) < 1279396355 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends where it is < 1279396367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most wouldn't < 1279396391 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just include a $1 bill or something < 1279396412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, I know that's a bad idea) < 1279396808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once & forall, < 1279396811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*forall. < 1279396828 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1279396833 0 :SevenInc1Bread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279396839 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1279396857 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279397008 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h191.28.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279397747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"New concept battery is recharged by vibration - how perfect is this for wireless controllers?" < 1279397762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One word: never-ending dildo < 1279397802 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279397822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/cqk6d/berkeley_programming_professor_posted_an/ < 1279397841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*MWAHAHAHAHA*) < 1279397844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I need a Bot to enter moves made by computer on a chess board GUI "A", to an online java flash chessboard GUI"B", and moves made by "B" computer player to "A"." < 1279397850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"java flash" < 1279398014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1279398020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. The word "acronym" only dates back to 1943. < 1279398045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course scroll down to question 20 to see the 'real' test < 1279398057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. < 1279398058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is E, by the way < 1279398066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(before you say I'm wrong: read it closely) < 1279398069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apply sarcasm detector) < 1279398075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lulu.com has very affordable costs for even single-book printings of things. < 1279398103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1279398104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i chose to interpret it as a joke jab on the fact that every standardized test contains at least one question that is ill-defined, ambiguous and an insult to anyone with actual intelligence. < 1279398105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the quality isn't so good afaik. < 1279398110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just paperback isn't it? < 1279398111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#20) < 1279398114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No. < 1279398126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually, the whole thing is based around #20 being a comment on the uselessness of standardised tests < 1279398133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiots think standardised tests measure intelligence < 1279398139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiots think barometers measure all of the weather < 1279398139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You choose the printing quality. < 1279398145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weather = temperature + wind-velocity + latitude + longitude < 1279398150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From somewhat-shitty paperbacks to decent hardcover books. < 1279398155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore the answer to #20 is E. < 1279398158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well okay < 1279398165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just ask Quadrescence to hand-bind a book for you :P < 1279398177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: although after reading the reddit discussion i note that E _is_ apparently the intended choice, it makes the answers form a sentence < 1279398178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: You. Time Machine. FTW. < 1279398182 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1279398188 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or it could be any, since any could fit there, I guess < 1279398195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hm < 1279398197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i _still_ prefer my meta-jab though ;D < 1279398199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence and a time machine: pikhq's plans for the night. < 1279398218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i put a jab in your jab etc.) < 1279398244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so i solved it without assuming anything about #20. found four solutions. < 1279398283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this would be terribly easy with haskell or prolog :P < 1279398300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. i did it by hand though. < 1279398322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok i consider vim an extension of my hands, here ;D) < 1279398344 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you want a book printed or something < 1279398349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also; a friend of mine has a copy of Atlanta Nights, which was published hardcover by Lulu. Good print quality. < 1279398369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I've just got a couple of totally nicely typeset books here and think I should have them printed & bound some day. < 1279398397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Pfft, not the original PublishAmerica edition? < 1279398397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Bad book, but it's printed well. :P < 1279398410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, no. < 1279398411 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I could do it depending on what exactly you're looking for. < 1279398422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it was never printed by them. < 1279398425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They withdrew their offer. < 1279398429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(After finding out about the hoax.) < 1279398441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: It's "some day when I've got slightly more expendable income" that I want it done anyways. < 1279398470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: But, yeah. Just "The Time Machine" and "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court", typeset in TeX. < 1279398506 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i c < 1279398557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways: it's just now hitting me that literally any idiot can have any arbitrary book printed. < 1279398588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it done with beeswax??? < 1279398595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the personal touch pikhq, you will never find happiness without Quadrescence < 1279398599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I really felt like it, I could have a hard-cover copy of Linux printed. :P < 1279398607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You do make a good point. < 1279398626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Tell me you made it with the memoir class. < 1279398644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Currently, it's on a tweaked book class. < 1279398653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoax? < 1279398653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy to change around though. < 1279398656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay. Change "book" to "memoir", then read this: http://www.tex.ac.uk/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/memoir/memman.pdf < 1279398664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. memoir makes everything just so much better. < 1279398682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Atlanta Nights was made to prove that PublishAmerica were a vanity firm. < 1279398703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also discovered that LyX is a very, very nice TeX editor, if you're into GUI things. < 1279398839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'On 23 January 2005, the hoax was publicly revealed by the authors. On 24 January 2005, PublishAmerica retracted its acceptance, stating that after "further review" the novel failed to meet their standards. < 1279398840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1279398847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how much do you like vi? < 1279398892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I like it and I dislike it. < 1279398893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads VS2010 < 1279398899 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what do you dislike? < 1279398927 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I want an integrated vi desktop everything < 1279399093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you're crazy < 1279399099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i liked you better before you tried vim < 1279399103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1279399119 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you say that? < 1279399191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't 100% sure what the difference between vi and vim is < 1279399219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: vi is old, and more an ethos nowadays than a real thing; vim is like vi but bloated. < 1279399232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because you had a more reasoned opinion about editors. :p < 1279399254 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, vi has lots of bad bits < 1279399266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the principle of different modes and the ease of commands are things I like < 1279399266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it safe to assume that vim is less bloated than emacs? < 1279399268 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279399270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very safe < 1279399284 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, I can make "junky" softcovers. Junky as in lower paper quality, just a cardstock cover with the title printed on it and the spine, glued binding, etc. I can also make sewn hardcovers that are clothbound which I can't replicate exactly and which are a little more "personal" < 1279399298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is one of the fun things about physics. If my 360 controller vibrated when I played Halo, so then I could power my Gameboy with the batteries, then time wouldn't exist." < 1279399300 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can also do typography and whatever just sayin < 1279399306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: safe, but not /that/ safe < 1279399306 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typesetting < 1279399314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: vim is quite bloated < 1279399325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim itself? it's not that bad < 1279399343 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I hope you're just joking around and actually use emacs < 1279399354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I <3 emacs < 1279399355 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279399373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, when I have to use an editor at a terminal, I <3 emacs < 1279399413 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you poor thing; there are times when you don't? < 1279399552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Daemon Tools: Didn't I just tell you to NOT install a toolbar? Dear Spybot S&D's Teatime: WHY would you just be dismissed at a keypress? I have no clue what just happened, because I was in the middle of complaining about DAEMON Tools < 1279399593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: My goodness the memoir class is awesome. < 1279399602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1279399619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My "The Metamorphosis" is set with it; I fiddled about with the chapter headings and page numbers and got something amazing. < 1279399619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... The perfect way to create books in TeX. < 1279399653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can LyX support it? < 1279399659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Probably not. < 1279399679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it can't, well, it's a simple enough matter to get proper TeX out of it and play with it from there. < 1279399706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, why not just write LaTeX directly? < 1279399708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hard or anything. < 1279399815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange messages during my harddrive firmware upgrade: http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/firmware-upgrade/ < 1279399912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So I pressed my Any key but the program didn't find it satisfactionary it seems, it wanted another press on the Any key:" < 1279399915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you get more boring if you tried? < 1279399923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "satisfactionary" is really not a word. Really really not. < 1279399955 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1279399965 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't find the word "satisfactionary" to be satisfactory, eh? < 1279399991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find "satisfactionary" very satisfactionary. It's not a very cromulent word. < 1279400001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think AnMaster is just trying to embiggen his vocabulary; I don't find this very satisfactionary. < 1279400157 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279400182 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279400196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, lyx does support the memoir class. < 1279400202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As "Book (memoir)". < 1279400232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also, "satisfactionary" is really not a word. Really really not. <-- so I didn't spell check < 1279400240 0 :alise10mb!~alise10mb@91.105.76.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279400245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also, "satisfactionary" is really not a word. Really really not. <-- so I didn't spell check < 1279400257 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi from Tiny Core. < 1279400277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. Fixed that now < 1279400285 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not so much a spelling error as a pointless ... conflabulation. < 1279400298 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well who cares. < 1279400305 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why this text is small in Tiny Core. < 1279400308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes I know. Quite nice < 1279400318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, what is Tiny Core? < 1279400351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, and I assume you found the strangness boring too? < 1279400357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect no less from you < 1279400361 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Tiny Core Linux is a graphical, Internet-supporting, package-manager-including, graphical-package-manager-including, Terminal-including Linux distribution that is only a 10 MiB ISO. It loads completely into RAM, and even uses glibc. < 1279400376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, compressed fs? < 1279400385 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, the strangeness is very boring. If your expectations of me are that I demonstrate a sense of humour with some sort of discrimination and taste, then thanks. < 1279400408 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think it uses a compressed kernel including the distro. Not sure. RAM usage after boot is 30 MiB or something. < 1279400408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, I did not expect we had compatible senses of humour. However there are other people here than you and me. < 1279400417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was mostly for their benefit I posted that < 1279400418 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you find that web page funy? < 1279400418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb: your "The Metamorphosis" is not a good example of memoir; it's all buggy. < 1279400420 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*funny < 1279400425 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: >_< < 1279400431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb: Hrm? < 1279400431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, I know you will find everything I do boring anyway. *shrug* < 1279400434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, what, not a 1.44mb distro? < 1279400447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, basically I don't care about your opinion < 1279400451 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There used to exist floppy distros with X; not nowadays. < 1279400461 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Um, you /asked me if I thought it was boring/. < 1279400467 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you don't care, don't waste my time. < 1279400476 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: pikhq was working on one, but *eh*. < 1279400501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, only after you complained that my text was boring < 1279400519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't it once concluded that I was boring? < 1279400537 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Actually, I was calling your "Any key" joke boring. < 1279400550 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's funny -- if you're Iliad and it's 1997 and you're writing User Friendly. < 1279400564 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is an awfully bad place to be, really, and I truly doubt anyone actually gets amused by it nowadays. < 1279400567 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone computer literate, at least. < 1279400583 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeaMonkey is smaller than I thought. 13 MiB. < 1279400587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still mildly amusing if used properly < 1279400587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, he's on hiatus < 1279400590 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that smaller than Firefox? < 1279400595 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ok, but certainly not /directly/ < 1279400607 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Was the spoiler that ILIAD has cancer? < 1279400642 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Dramatic music. Exeunt all but bad feeling in reader's stomach.] < 1279400646 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think his brother was ill, or died, or something a while ago, I'm not sure about the recent hiatus < 1279400681 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His brother died of cancer -- BUT NOT BEFORE PASSING IT ON TO HIM! < 1279400768 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, my trackpad can middl-click. < 1279400772 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*middle < 1279400773 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. < 1279400777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/read.cgi?id=20091125&tid=3270602 < 1279400787 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems it has four buttons. < 1279400802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, btw I seem to remember compaq changing their faq to include the any key < 1279400818 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I can't click on that link for some reason. I guess I'll load Midori manually. < 1279400824 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FROM RAM. < 1279400829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/09/25/compaq_faq_explains_the_any/ < 1279400837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb, 2003... right < 1279400840 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, actually the mouse seems to have broken. < 1279400852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to their faq seems completely dead < 1279401045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise10mb: Say, what's the best way to deal with *unnamed* chapters in LaTeX? < 1279401054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ehm. < 1279401056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: \chapter{}. < 1279401062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1279401064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then search memoir documentation to customise the chapter style. < 1279401069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll let you remove colons or spaces or whatever. < 1279401080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I did for The Metamorphosis, anyway. < 1279401082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That creates some really fucking annoying hyperref stuff though. *shrug* < 1279401094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\chapter{} and set the chapters to display as Roman numerals, so I get "I", "II", "III". < 1279401095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ehm? < 1279401101 0 :alise10mb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1279401131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyperref is the package that makes the PDF output have PDF bookmarks and the ToC be clickable. < 1279401134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a big deal. < 1279401173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. PDFs aren't for on-screen reading anyway. < 1279401222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, it "just works". Awesome. < 1279401237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now just to futz with the chapter style so that looks right. < 1279401254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah; you'll end up copy-paste-and-editing a bit. < 1279401263 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279401269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders forking Midori and making it more minimalist < 1279401271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*minimalist. < 1279401274 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't like futzing with appearance stuff < 1279401314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Midori, the Microsoft OS? < 1279401343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Midori the web browser. < 1279401357 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279401577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seems to not be groking how the styling works < 1279401622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What code are you using? < 1279401729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters < 1279401748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants the ToC to have chapter numbers. < 1279401802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If the chapters are unnamed, don't have a ToC! < 1279401808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, are you typesetting a novel? < 1279401813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, do not include a Table of Contents. < 1279401815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1279401815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Meh. PDFs aren't for on-screen reading anyway. <-- eh? I think they work fine for that < 1279401817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Superfluous and spoilery. < 1279401827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, okay. < 1279401838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Off with the ToC. < 1279401846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no; they cannot reflow their layout to the situation, they are based on the useless-for-screen metaphor of "pages", and they are usually typeset considering print media, with the typefaces and other such things suited for print. < 1279401857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you /can/ read PDFs just fine on a screen, but it's not ideal. < 1279401859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Superfluous and spoilery. <-- I know novels with ToC < 1279401859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now how's about getting chapter numbers to appear in the new chapter thing and the heading? < 1279401864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As, say, "Chapter I". < 1279401868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So do I. < 1279401871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're silly. < 1279401882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed I got a minor spoiler that seemed like a major spoiler once by reading a ToC at the start of a novel. < 1279401882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, some are not spoilery though. < 1279401895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, still no reason to have one. If you must, put it at the end, like an index. < 1279401896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also I know some semi-novels with index < 1279401904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semi-novels? < 1279401919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Science of Discworld < 1279401922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know of it? < 1279401930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every other chapter is discworld story < 1279401933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of it, yes. < 1279401935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thumbing through Good Omens, and one of the chapter dividers was major spoilery < 1279401958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other half are popular science text < 1279401966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh grammar fail < 1279401971 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thats your fault < 1279401974 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Science of Discworld < 1279401979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, same < 1279401987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapter 15, in Which the Hero meets his untimely Demise < 1279402002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, XD < 1279402005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make a reading list < 1279402009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, which chapter divider? < 1279402018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I read Good Omens so it won't spoil it for me < 1279402018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last one, I think < 1279402034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1279402038 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.76.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279402041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder what Genie is doing now. < 1279402041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, learnt quite a few useful bits from the Science of Discworld books < 1279402050 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1279402054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Now how's about getting chapter numbers to appear in the new chapter thing and the heading? < 1279402060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try a different chapter header and page number style. < 1279402063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also loved the house analogy for mathematics < 1279402066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can copy the code (in the manual) for one and modify it to your tastes. < 1279402069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gur bar gung fnvq "Gur qnl nsgre gbzbeebj", be znlor n qnl bs gur jrrx. Vg'f orra n juvyr, ohg vg vaqvpngrq gung gur vzcraqvat ncbpnylcfr jbhyqa'g npghnyyl unccra. < 1279402072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember which book that was in < 1279402079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't un-ROT13 if you haven't read Good Omens < 1279402080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh yes that :D < 1279402086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Trying to grok. < 1279402089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's not Sgeo's fault < 1279402094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, the same one discussing Hilberts hotel iirc < 1279402095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: fthagn! < 1279402100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hilbert's < 1279402101 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sounds right < 1279402103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that 2? < 1279402103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not reading stuff isn't easy, and putting something potentially spoilery at the start of a book is /retarded/. < 1279402107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, which is 1 or 2 < 1279402110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, definitely not 3 < 1279402116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe < 1279402117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I didn't say there was a ToC < 1279402118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1279402121 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 seems wrong < 1279402121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'd help by giving you code from my "The Metamorphosis", but -- do you have greppable logs? < 1279402125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I seem to remember 3 discussing infinite too < 1279402128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone have greppable logs that they want to grep for me? < 1279402130 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... could have been < 1279402142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, meh they are upstairs. You go check your copies < 1279402145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his so very buggy code < 1279402149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too far away for me < 1279402151 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I only own 3 < 1279402156 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's upstairs < 1279402157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not handy. < 1279402161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, all 3? < 1279402168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just #3 < 1279402169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can you grep some logs for me? Thank you. < 1279402172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I have a longer staircase! (or something) < 1279402177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not on that computer with logs < 1279402182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is turned off < 1279402183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For, uh, "alise" and "metamorphosis", case insensitive; for the source file of my The Metamorphosis. < 1279402183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit. < 1279402184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well then. < 1279402189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What is the code you are using, what are you trying to do? < 1279402189 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's your altitude. Maybe the air is thicker? < 1279402193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the last 2 hours or so: sure < 1279402205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, +- 0 sea level < 1279402212 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1279402214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION invents the word "greppatim" < 1279402228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, meaning? < 1279402237 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... crud < 1279402244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what? < 1279402249 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279402250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: exactly as grepped < 1279402259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm trying most things in here and they're all having *no effect*. < 1279402260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, norwegian? < 1279402269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no < 1279402273 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the air is thicker where you are < 1279402280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, it is slower to move in the ticker air < 1279402284 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1279402286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, higher air resistance < 1279402287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely an english mangling < 1279402291 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's your excuse for not going upstairs < 1279402291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, thus you go check your copy < 1279402300 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I only own one book :D < 1279402305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh I thought you were trying to use that the other way around < 1279402310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, um, you know when I ask for code? I mean actual code. :P < 1279402313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, pastebin would be good. < 1279402318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I was trying to figure out your "or something" :P < 1279402336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB, restarting for Daemon Tool's sake < 1279402372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a tool of daemons < 1279402374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Could you just give me a freaking example of what *actually* works? < 1279402402 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's disturbing how long I have to wait between clicking Shut Down and getting the screen to choose what I want to do < 1279402403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well iirc in #3 they discuss infinity in the middle somewhere. Ponder in the big hall. Archchancellor (sp!?) coming in from his morning jog or such and then a discussion of infinity. Followed by a chapter on that subject < 1279402408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not without knowing what you're trying to do &c. Can't you just paste the header of your file and I'll try and see an error? < 1279402422 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: okay, fine, I'll go look < 1279402459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been #3 since it was about Darwin < 1279402468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there it is. "\pagestyle{plain}". That's dumb to have. :P < 1279402490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what are you typesetting? < 1279402497 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should not take this bloody long. I'm pretty sure my hodgepodge registry is screwing somethivng up < 1279402511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "The Time Machine, by H.G. Wells. < 1279402518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nice < 1279402532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I assume you use pdftex? < 1279402538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, remember to use microtype < 1279402547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, optically straight margins rock :D < 1279402577 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279402611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, just put \usepackage{microtype} < 1279402612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Xetex. < 1279402621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, argh why? < 1279402631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I suspect luatex can do this too < 1279402632 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279402635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea if xetex can < 1279402642 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luatex o.O < 1279402655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it will be able to at least < 1279402659 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that do what it sounds like? < 1279402662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microtypography is one of the major *points* of XeTeX. < 1279402687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so it is able to do optically straight margins? < 1279402694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279402698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how? < 1279402703 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279402705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same package? < 1279402716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think so. < 1279402737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, strange the microtype docs only mention pdftex and luatex then < 1279402746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does that do what it sounds like? <-- what does it sound like? < 1279402763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It also does OpenType fonts and Unicode. < 1279402767 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like it lets you use Lua in TeX < 1279402787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279402860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes I thought that was the main point of XeTeX? < 1279402875 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: page 171 in #3 < 1279402876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, no. It is itself written in Lua mostly < 1279402878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279402885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, google < 1279402887 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1279402893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, nice < 1279402896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delicious, delicious Unicode. < 1279402945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm a TeX self-interpreter would be neat < 1279402947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ^ < 1279402969 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's an especially accurate description of set theory < 1279402984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what? the house analogy? < 1279402987 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1279402988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1279403069 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o at a proper name being in my dictionary < 1279403076 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must have added it at some point < 1279403079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, rather accurate for a lot of math. Peopled dabbled with splitting areas in infinite number of elements before integrals were invented. < 1279403080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1279403099 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1279403108 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and computer science generally < 1279403122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, have we defined stuff there at all yet? ;P < 1279403127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to some degree < 1279403131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not much < 1279403200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1279403236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, xetex doesn't support microtype < 1279403250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& i do suggest you use latex+microtype, but i'll let Quadrescence argue that one < 1279403255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdflatex that is < 1279403260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optical straight margins rock < 1279403266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optically* < 1279403282 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds The Science of Discworld and House of Leaves to his reading list < 1279403317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, but you can stop mentioning them every five seconds now. < 1279403353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no < 1279403360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because I haven't started < 1279403364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got the interval wrong < 1279403364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Okay, then. < 1279403373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Good font for LaTeX, then? < 1279403374 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mounts the VS2010 disc < 1279403387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Garamond, for instance. < 1279403416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://gael-varoquaux.info/computers/garamond/index.html is excellent, except for that the Q is way too elaborate. < 1279403428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, science of discworld is the first of three books. Science of Discworld II: The Globe and Science of Discworld III: Darwin's Watch < 1279403434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the next two ones < 1279403438 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to use LaTeX without making all of these visual choices? < 1279403439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they rock too < 1279403457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, that is what latex is all about < 1279403472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you pirate ITC New Baskerville, you can use http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/adobe/nbaskerv/. < 1279403477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfb format. < 1279403497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly wants to write a book called "This book does not use tiTLeCAse < 1279403499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<" < 1279403502 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything where I don't have to care about such choices? < 1279403502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ pikhq: If you pirate ITC New Baskerville, you can use http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/adobe/nbaskerv/. <-- does that support microtype? < 1279403588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah, ok, *you* notice optically straight margins, but it's more a typographer's masturbation than an actual useful tool) < 1279403590 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I misinterpreted anmaster < 1279403595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mu < 1279403601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: font is irrelevant to microtype < 1279403609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Wrong. Read the docs < 1279403618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is font dependant for kerning < 1279403619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well i don't recall it that way. < 1279403621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few other things < 1279403623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok. well. < 1279403627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think latex kerns by itself < 1279403630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i'm certain < 1279403633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, check microtype docs < 1279403643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think fine-tuning kerning is on pikhq's agenda < 1279403645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't matter. < 1279403684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also expansion it see < 1279403686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems* < 1279403696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not optically straight margins, etc. < 1279403700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore pikhq should pirate ITC New Baskerville :P < 1279403706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not sure about that < 1279403708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course baskerville doesn't work too well in print. < 1279403712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1279403714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, link to sample of that font? < 1279403715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course baskerville doesn't work too well on screen. < 1279403724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, baskerville is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baskerville < 1279403738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik ITC New Baskerville is just a font of Baskerville, presumably tuned at least a /little/ bit for screen < 1279403746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I find CMR works nicely both on screen and in print < 1279403755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just shut up. < 1279403762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what did I say wrong? < 1279403769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing wrong with computer modern. < 1279403772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are you seriously treating my < 1279403775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"baskerville sucks on screen" < 1279403780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a request for a 'better' typeface/ < 1279403781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typeface? < 1279403796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you not think that some typefaces do some things better than others? That some typefaces are more suited to individual works than others? < 1279403799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... it was a side channel remark < 1279403804 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, imvu, which I hate, takes up a lot of space on my HD < 1279403806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was not delivered so. < 1279403819 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are virtual worlds that I hate < 1279403820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I set Douglas Adams in Computer Modern I'd have to commit harakiri. < 1279403841 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, not just because its younger than 10 < 1279403845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do you not think that some typefaces do some things better than others? That some typefaces are more suited to individual works than others? <-- um? Depends. Probably for titles. But not for the prose of most books. < 1279403850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for special effects sure < 1279403858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as Death's voice in Discworld < 1279403867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most books don't use such stuff < 1279403871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Er, no. Some authors' styles are definitely more suited to some typefaces than others. < 1279403883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would you print a book in Comic Sans? < 1279403889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A comic, maybe; a book? < 1279403898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? Then you admit that the best choice of typeface depends on the work. < 1279403899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no. No book at all. < 1279403912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no it doesn't. Comic Sans fits nowhere < 1279403914 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prints alise in wingdings < 1279403928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: comics. < 1279403930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I was trying to say however < 1279403938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that I think there are neutral fonts < 1279403938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really hate comic sans even for comics substitute some comic font < 1279403940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still wouldn't set a book in it < 1279403950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, those are not books with great lengths of prose < 1279403964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And would you set a very interesting and lively book - jumping through subjects - say if Feynman wrote a novel on crack - that - does that deserve a neutral font? No! surely not -- < 1279403965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BaaahIdon'thaveitalicgaramond. < 1279403977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Baaaahusebaskerville. BaaaahfuckXeTeX. < 1279403981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have no idea < 1279403985 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, crud, the uninstaller seems to be having some difficulties. < 1279403990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Using pdflatex ATM. < 1279403994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay <3 < 1279403999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Don't use that Garamond its Q sucks < 1279404006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're breaking the law w/ your text anyway, just pirate a font :P < 1279404014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I'm not. < 1279404025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Time Machine" is public domain. < 1279404030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, CMR is a pretty neutral font. You can use it for novels. You can use it for articles. For most stuff < 1279404034 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pirates alise < 1279404036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1279404040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, who cares about copyright law. < 1279404046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, Computer Modern is Didone. < 1279404051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaddya think about Palatino? < 1279404058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Papers it works for; mathematical papers are traditionally set in Modern/Didone fonts. < 1279404077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, setting the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy in Computer Modern or, heaven forbid, even Bodoni would be a crime. < 1279404083 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next I'll just start verbing people < 1279404087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I like me some Palatino, though note that if you're considering the URW edition it isn't quite so good. < 1279404089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nice font for math iirc < 1279404089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URW editions rarely are. < 1279404108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHMYFUCKINGGODITDOESNTHAVELIGATURES < 1279404111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NONONONONONONONONO < 1279404124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSONO. < 1279404127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm I never saw what the point of ligatures was < 1279404141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A lack of them is ugly. < 1279404141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure they are nice. But not such a big deal < 1279404152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not really. < 1279404164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I demand ligatures. < 1279404185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't English use to use a lot more of them? < 1279404187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than it does now < 1279404204 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION demands pikhq < 1279404229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1279404239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: take a look at "fi" in e.g. Century Schoolbook someday, unkerned < 1279404282 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi or ... that weird thing i ? < 1279404300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1279404372 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird thing that looks like f and sounds like s < 1279404373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: New Century Schoolbook looks decent... < 1279404389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baskerville is tempting, though. < 1279404403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Century Schoolbook should be reserved for factual stuff and essays, imo. < 1279404412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's dossier-esque. < 1279404420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's The Time Machine. < 1279404426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but still. < 1279404433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, Century Schoolbook would be an anachronism. < 1279404460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would. < 1279404469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can acquire Baskerville -- perhaps not necessarily ITC New Bakerville -- I'd go with that. As long as it's properly digitised, it'll look great in print and ... well, readable on screen. < 1279404478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Baskervilles suck, though. < 1279404485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what font it was published in originally. < 1279404496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baskerville is definitely the typeface of H2G2, at least. < 1279404506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: take a look at "fi" in e.g. Century Schoolbook someday, unkerned <-- does latex have it? < 1279404511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or where do I find it < 1279404529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Somewhere. < 1279404538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The family is pnc, it will have actual ligatures. < 1279404543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ... on my ubuntu system? < 1279404547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, define pnc < 1279404567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\fontfamily{pnc} < 1279404570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: On the internet, at least. < 1279404574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed. < 1279404577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I produced "fi" with Word. < 1279404582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1279404589 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1279404602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Unligatured fi makes me angry. < 1279404606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very, very angry. < 1279404611 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1279404637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time God sees an unligatured "fi", He rapes a kitten and kills a prostitute. < 1279404659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonia_%28typeface%29 Ooh. < 1279404673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What do you think of Linux Libertine O? < 1279404693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh. Caledonia. < 1279404717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, of course, it's a free font, and those almost universally suck; Libertine basically obeys that rule. What is remarkable about its O? < 1279404720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonia_%28typeface%29 Ooh. <-- why on earth did I read that as "California" first < 1279404735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What sucks about it? < 1279404751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's not /bad/, it just isn't nearly as /good/. < 1279404759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fair enough. < 1279404760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, bitstream vera sans mono is nice for coding. Doesn't suck IMO < 1279404769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, uh, monospaced fonts are barely typography. Sorry. < 1279404780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I didn't say I wanted to typeset a book in it... < 1279404780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Typography is very much an industry stuck in the past, really, as far as typefaces goes. < 1279404797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that it's one of the nicer free-as-in-libre fonts I've found. < 1279404805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, plus I consider tiny bitmapped monospace fonts for embedded use to be a noble art < 1279404821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(namely, it actually allows for things like "decent typesetting" and doesn't rape my eyes.) < 1279404827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That is true. http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl/ are beer rather than speech but they're damn good typefaces. < 1279404843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl/calluna.html, but don't have the money (it's one of his few paid fonts). < 1279404851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It includes the ch ligature, even! < 1279404855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And CJK fonts? Give up now. < 1279404875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Print fonts for CJK that are good are a dime a dozen. < 1279404876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the st ligature. < 1279404881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screen fonts? Give up now. < 1279404881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're both basically rubbish ligatures though. < 1279404886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hinting is *hard*. < 1279404887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ooh, let's draw a halo." < 1279404896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: KANJI LIGATURES. < 1279404899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also the st ligature. <-- that looks awkward < 1279404900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a genius. < 1279404915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and the ck ligature is just "wtf" < 1279404922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's antique; good for gaols, for instance when setting a rime. < 1279404940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gaols? < 1279404952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gaol - jail: a correctional institution used to detain persons who are in the lawful custody of the government (either accused persons awaiting trial or convicted persons serving a sentence)" <-- wtf? < 1279404960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The British English spelling for jail; now archaic but quite recently the preferred spelling. < 1279404971 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still used in some legal circles < 1279404974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance the OED preferred it in the 60s. < 1279404977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, please make sense < 1279404984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rime" the same, but for "rhyme". < 1279404986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Err, what? < 1279404988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've made perfect sense. < 1279404995 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got caught up when reading court documents and seeing someone sentenced to gaol time < 1279404998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one of the American English spellings that came about because of just settling on a different standard. < 1279405000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Argh, what's the name of that typeface... Minlot or something... < 1279405001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how can you typeset a jail < 1279405004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1279405006 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279405007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... < 1279405010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're retarded. < 1279405015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, tired < 1279405017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: It's antique; good for gaols, for instance when setting a rime. < 1279405024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good for gaols to use when typesetting a rime. < 1279405052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minion. < 1279405056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "good for jails to use when typesetting a rhyme"? < 1279405059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calluna is gorgeous. < 1279405059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1279405063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minion_%28typeface%29 < 1279405069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minion's a good one. < 1279405075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or is there some idiom in there < 1279405099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Umm... if a jail wanted to typeset some rhyming poetry and print it to stick on the walls or something? < 1279405109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't difficult. < 1279405119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sure... but that doesn't make much sense in the original context :P < 1279405137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was using antique spellings to demonstrate the antiquity of the ck and st ligatures. < 1279405147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl/tallys.html If only this had italic. < 1279405154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh... duh < 1279405170 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi fl ffl < 1279405189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, looks awesome in dejavu sans mono 9pt here :P < 1279405209 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the vga bios rom font is the best for coding ;) < 1279405209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It /is/ slightly slanted. < 1279405215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I find it's not very good for text, though (I tried). < 1279405244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Aaaaw. < 1279405281 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that rom font is perfectly horrible, but I got used to it over the space of many years < 1279405294 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I must have it < 1279405323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, use Unifont. < 1279405326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279405339 0 :jillsmitt!~quassel@95.58.183.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279405340 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279405346 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad it's BMP-only < 1279405369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is better coverage than almost every other font... < 1279405401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but it's just Not Enough < 1279405412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, I keep Unifont installed as a fallback) < 1279405418 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fontforge ftw < 1279405432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a font covering all of Unicode. < 1279405434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Gentium is quite decent, http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&cat_id=FontDownloadsGentium, but OpenType-only and therefore has cooties. < 1279405440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: As I said. Let's make one! < 1279405447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could call it ShitFont. < 1279405450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ah, yeah. Gentium's nice. < 1279405451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be shitty but comprehensive. < 1279405466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, it could be monospaced. For, say, if you wanted to make a grid of Unicode characters like in UniCode/Unikitten. < 1279405471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, the nice thing about XeLaTeX is that you can use those OpenType fonts. < 1279405486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Unifont is bitmapped. < 1279405493 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could start it by combining some open source fonts < 1279405493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Unifont is bitmapped. < 1279405497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it was vectorised! < 1279405502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font has subsequently been vectorised and converted to TrueType format[1][2] , and merged back the improvements to 20,000 CJK glyphs done by WenQuanYi Unibit font[3]. < 1279405507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Vectorised'. < 1279405515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was converted into squares. < 1279405528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[GNU Unifont is a typography distributed in hexadecimal textual format, with support for more than 30000 characters. It is a "bitmap" typography whose characters can be of 8x8 or 8x16 pixels, according to its width.]] < 1279405532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Because of this, and because TrueType has become the used standard more for vectorial sources, it was necessary a version of this typography in Truetype format.]] < 1279405538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a typography, also available in vectorial format. < 1279405539 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279405552 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to vectorize anymore.. ttf allows you to include bitmapped fonts in the ttf < 1279405809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.emhsoft.com/singularity/ < 1279405821 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1279405851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rms: rms M. Stallman < 1279405868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There should be a font covering all of Unicode. <-- A lot of unicode is free space < 1279405905 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll put naughty doodles in that space < 1279405907 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an absurd response. < 1279405915 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an absurd response to an absurd response. < 1279405920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1279405937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also doesn't Bitstream Cyberbit cover most? < 1279405968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i love that idea < 1279405986 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: This Unicode is invalid. PENIS < 1279405989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And here is unicode U+E8F9, 'VAGINA COMPOSED OF SMELL PENISES'." < 1279405994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SMALL < 1279406027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+E8FA: DILDO BEING INSERTED INTO URETHRA < 1279406045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+E8FB: DEPICTION OF "69" SEXUAL ACT < 1279406051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, better idea: make it just a lot of dashes that when put in a grid of the right dimensions form a huge naughty picture < 1279406055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hides it kind of < 1279406057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make a different naughty doodle for every single unallocated character < 1279406069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+FFFF: GOATSE < 1279406084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how many unallocated chars are there? < 1279406108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tons < 1279406108 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+9FFFF: BOOBIES < 1279406110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it < 1279406120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right, then my idea is more viable < 1279406125 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with alise 115%. < 1279406129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+ABCDEF: ALPHABET RENDERED IN DEPICTIONS OF VARIOUS SEXUAL ACTS < 1279406153 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1279406153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1279406158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best thing about having the last char be goatse < 1279406164 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best letters in that block are of course L, G, B, T and Q. < 1279406167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that on Mac OS X it's an Apple logo < 1279406169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1279406184 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only 17 planes of 65534 codepoints (except plane 0 which has some additional special codes that are not valid codepoints). < 1279406207 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279406221 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So last valid codepoint number is 0x10FFFD. < 1279406224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm trying to get B to be a sexual act and failing terribly, unless it's something strange like "anus being eaten by formless slot in wall" < 1279406228 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget the code points left deliberately unassigned < 1279406283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, Bitstream Cyberbit doesn't support "most of Unicode". < 1279406292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't even get all of the BMP. < 1279406297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+10FFFE is a code point to < 1279406299 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1279406308 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, it isn't valid. < 1279406314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1279406333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : don't forget the code points left deliberately unassigned <-- such as? < 1279406340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why? < 1279406357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are surrogate pairs for UTF-16 and such iirc < 1279406359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They leave parts of blocks unassigned for future expansion. < 1279406365 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h20.11.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279406370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they like blocks to be round number sizes < 1279406371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes and there is also a private use area < 1279406373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the currency symbol block has about 20 characters unassigned. < 1279406375 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a script may not occupy the full blcok < 1279406384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/co/oc/ < 1279406388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, powers of 10 or powers of two? < 1279406393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two. < 1279406398 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are 2080 codepoints in range 0-10FFFD that aren't valid. < 1279406398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 < 1279406399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :understandable then < 1279406399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1279406411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, maybe multiples of 16? < 1279406412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, then entirety of planes F and 10 are private use areas < 1279406416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, midori is part of xfce now < 1279406423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er right < 1279406424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, powers of 16 would be... annoying < 1279406430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :powers of 60 < 1279406435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1279406441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Babylonian iirc? < 1279406455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279406465 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says that 66 points are noncharacter code poitns < 1279406485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The problem with creating a pan-Unicode font is one-fold. < 1279406492 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there's the two surrogate ranges < 1279406495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese characters are hard. < 1279406503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Meh. We can just do scribbles. < 1279406511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the private use areas (two planes + U+E000-U+F8FF) < 1279406515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: We can have it be sans-serif for easiness, and let it be bitmap for easiness. < 1279406519 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUEEN OF FRANCE < 1279406524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just doodle each character then make things slightly straighter. < 1279406525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada. < 1279406546 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2048 characters for surrogates and 32 codepoints that are xFFFE or xFFFF.) < 1279406550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's 107,361 characters in Unicode. 70% of that is CJK. < 1279406559 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just replace all the chinese characters with various American propaganda < 1279406561 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dicks < 1279406599 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have one of Abraham Lincoln assraping Mao Zedong. < 1279406601 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1279406611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the Chinese are hogging space then ;P < 1279406646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And there's room for 1,114,112 characters. < 1279406649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Meh. We can do that. < 1279406661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, another idea: combine various free fonts to get a decent "starting set" then do doodles for the rest < 1279406663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Thank God for Han Unification :P < 1279406670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's boring, that's what the OS does already < 1279406670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :P < 1279406672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minus the doodles < 1279406679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm true < 1279406704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, argh we need unicode2. 128 bits per char < 1279406709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with doodles, we can sustain the common theme of crap doodles. < 1279406718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well true < 1279406734 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: just add in like... Middle Earth script. And various other fantasy setting scripts. < 1279406743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we could be lazy as fuck and have an ascii format where some special chars denote stems and stuff, so it could automatically make a true italic (not slanted) < 1279406753 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just extend the space (like old versions of ISO-10646-1 had). Plenty more codepoints there. < 1279406759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ooh, and have it interpolate vector curves from like < > \ / < 1279406763 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why do we need 128 bits for Unicode? < 1279406765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we could have the world's worst vector font < 1279406781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, .. you didn't get the ip joke? < 1279406782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the post-singularity universal language < 1279406791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... what? < 1279406793 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, no I didn't < 1279406795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really suck at making jokes < 1279406809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipv4 = 32 bits = unicode < 1279406817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think AnMaster thinks of something vaguely amusing in his head then tells us the conclusion without bothering to provide any other part of the joke. < 1279406818 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have been Unicodev6 < 1279406826 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I do this all the time < 1279406835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well it hasn't reached unicode4 yet < 1279406836 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode 2 has come and gone < 1279406839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that doesn't work < 1279406844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh has it? < 1279406847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, yes < 1279406852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, you're never completely inexplicable. < 1279406853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I never heard any version number for unicode < 1279406854 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most recent release was 5.2 < 1279406855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we're up to unicode 5 dude < 1279406860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1279406889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may also be a pain encoding the other ideographic scripts in Unicode. < 1279406891 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants Tengwar to be approved < 1279406919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what will happen when we run out of ipv4. How long is left? The economic down turn probably slowed it down a bit... but not much < 1279406920 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279406926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: very near < 1279406934 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will happen is the world will panic for a little while < 1279406936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet I don't have native ipv6 < 1279406936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Year. < 1279406940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 year. < 1279406943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, right < 1279406960 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then IPv6 will get 'announced' and people will pay far too much for stuff that supports it < 1279406965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well I don't have native ipv6. My ISP has one block assigned < 1279406965 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279406975 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a /48? < 1279406985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, don't remember < 1279406994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checked some looking glass thingy or whatever < 1279407005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, wait what? Computers already have it < 1279407013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only my ADSL modem would need upgrading < 1279407034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ISP surely need to upgrade their stuff too, but not a lot of that < 1279407047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That wouldn't need upgrading. < 1279407050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, also the world should be panicing already < 1279407056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your ADSL modem doesn't even know what IP is. < 1279407059 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279407064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it does. It does NAT too < 1279407068 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they won't until 6 months after we run out < 1279407072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one unit < 1279407079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also wlan < 1279407085 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm talking about what will actually happen < 1279407094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, true < 1279407101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah, we should be entirely on IPv6 by now. < 1279407103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 months *after* huh? < 1279407107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279407109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people r dum < 1279407113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why 6 months after < 1279407117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than exactly when < 1279407118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, unfortunately, it'll take longer than that. < 1279407119 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have IPv6 connectivity and, IIRC, my ISP allocates /32 blocks to individual houses or something like that < 1279407126 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I repeat what I said < 1279407128 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people r dum < 1279407133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, right... < 1279407147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I have a nice and fast sixxs tunnel. I'll survive < 1279407150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when at home < 1279407152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the big fun bit will be people complaining that doesn't work < 1279407155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit more tricky at university < 1279407155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the management goes "We want new servers", and they get told "We can't without upgrading all of everything". < 1279407162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what? < 1279407165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Then* they'll start switching. < 1279407175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will be the #1 thing you hear about most, I assure you < 1279407180 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1279407185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, OSes already support ipv6 < 1279407186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... /32 blocks? */32 blocks*?!?!? < 1279407189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: WHAT THE HELL. < 1279407190 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1279407196 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how much space IPv6 has < 1279407199 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nutters < 1279407201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1279407209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is /32 from start or end? < 1279407210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot < 1279407213 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't the usual site assignments /48? < 1279407213 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, start < 1279407217 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking the other way around < 1279407223 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant /96 < 1279407225 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still ridiculous < 1279407228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: A usual individual assignment is a /64 block. < 1279407230 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter, it's lots either way < 1279407231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's borken. < 1279407238 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the exact number < 1279407249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I remember is 'way too big' < 1279407249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Individual users should be assigned /64s. < 1279407255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the smallest ipv6 allocation being handed out enough to contain all of ipv4 and then some? < 1279407255 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, maybe that's it then < 1279407263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think they'd learn from their past mistakes and use discretion. < 1279407266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall specifically < 1279407267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1279407268 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/64 is assigned to individual LAN segment. < 1279407274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, maybe we have the space, but do you NEED those IPs? all of them? < 1279407278 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then my ISP is giving out /64 < 1279407283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, we're doing fine on IPv4 because of NATs. < 1279407286 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the plus side, LAN will hopefully die a nice death < 1279407287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The point of /64 is to be able to have the other half of the IP address be the MAC address. < 1279407297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How big is /64 again? < 1279407302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I think I have a /48 from sixxs. Can't check from this computer < 1279407305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's an awful hack. < 1279407306 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 64 bits < 1279407309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^64-1. < 1279407315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awful awful hack. < 1279407316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus sharing my block to rest of lan is completely broken < 1279407320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's how IPv6 autonegotiation works. < 1279407327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2^64-1. <-- -1? Signed? < 1279407343 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, 2^64 as there are no reserved addresses. < 1279407344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, 0 is the network address. < 1279407347 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h181.62.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279407348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1279407349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ... makes no sense as "signed". < 1279407353 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't 255 the gateway address, thus removing one more? < 1279407369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :255 isn't broadcast is it? < 1279407373 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1279407374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under ipv6 I mean < 1279407379 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1279407381 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's reserved I think < 1279407381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is under ipv4 < 1279407385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not under ipv6 iirc < 1279407395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1279407402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN ANY CASE < 1279407470 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :query: what is the correct way to ask for a full DNS lookup and get a manual printout? < 1279407483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a query < 1279407485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1279407500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, but do you mean a zone transfer? < 1279407515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Let's implement Xlib! Aiee. < 1279407521 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate my terrible internet connection < 1279407528 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just want to see all the records for a domain < 1279407533 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in human-readable format < 1279407544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NO < 1279407548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "dig poop.com" < 1279407555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, zone transfer then. Pretty much forbidden by all dns servers for non-slave servers. < 1279407557 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1279407573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically only slaves are allowed to do zone transfers from the master. That is all < 1279407586 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a zone transfer? < 1279407598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, dumping an entire domain basically < 1279407632 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a dumb name < 1279407635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, you need that + some pretty printing. Though IMO the format of bind et al is pretty readable < 1279407637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, not at all < 1279407645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, a zone could be less than a domain < 1279407651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though domains are usually the zones < 1279407661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, also you could do a zone transfer on a tld < 1279407669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, so yes it makes perfect sense < 1279407699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: just use dig < 1279407701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dig google.com < 1279407703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1279407703 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, frick < 1279407705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doesn't dump all < 1279407707 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, dig works fine < 1279407715 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can list the record types I'm after < 1279407717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, uh, coppro meant something totally different to what you meant < 1279407718 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good enough < 1279407721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dig mail.google.com < 1279407722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try that < 1279407722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you're being so confusing and obscure < 1279407726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not included in < 1279407728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dig google.com < 1279407733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not < 1279407734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he meant all records < 1279407737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all records for all subdomains < 1279407750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then I misunderstood him < 1279407767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1279407771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounded like he meant a zone transfer to me < 1279407819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.sixxs.net/main/ <-- lovely, blue lines around linked images. You don't see that often nowdays on any page using css at all < 1279407853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange though.. I remembered it as more styled... < 1279407882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the css hasn't loaded for you < 1279407884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no such borders < 1279407887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is styled < 1279407890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, strange... < 1279407892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, parts of the css haven't loaded < 1279407895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say ones in @import < 1279407900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try ctrl+f5 < 1279407903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-shift-r doesn't help < 1279407921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prods browser < 1279408072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an SOA record? < 1279408089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : of Authority < 1279408120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DNS_record_types#SOA < 1279408132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start of Authority < 1279408141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contains TTL amongst other things < 1279408174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sshs to a nameserver to check some stuff (bind, ugh, but not mine) < 1279408191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or rather, I didn't set it up, just have admin access to it) < 1279408261 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of 10 gb I finally managed to free, 6 are going to Visual Studio < 1279408280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, ... why on earth < 1279408283 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 < 1279408283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSVC is crap < 1279408299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, why not download it from home instead < 1279408299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SgeoN1 is brain-addled by c#. < 1279408315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh C#... even worse < 1279408317 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Download it from home? < 1279408323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, compared to over N1 < 1279408333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he's only ircing via n1 < 1279408335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god knows why < 1279408349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean obviously over a phone would be expensive. But ADSL tends to be unlimited traffic < 1279408366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He isn't using his phone to download it. < 1279408384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then... what the fuck XD < 1279408393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gb stuff doesn't make ANY sense < 1279408394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRCing via N1 for some reason I presume. < 1279408400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He didn't have much space on his computer. < 1279408405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1279408411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then why the "free" bit < 1279408411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He freed 10 GiB of it, and is using 7 GiB for Visual Studio. < 1279408414 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279408415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1279408418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You're low on memory < 1279408420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You free memory. < 1279408420 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279408423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does this give you? < 1279408423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory. < 1279408426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*low on memory. < 1279408426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought free as in "free download" < 1279408434 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Jr downloading over n1 < 1279408436 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not < 1279408440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1279408448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not ~= Jr. < 1279408451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has over 2/3 of a TB unallocated < 1279408472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love lvm2 < 1279408488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lvm2 is like headache in a kernel module. < 1279408500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss the simple life. < 1279408502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why? < 1279408507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also most is user spacew < 1279408509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space* < 1279408515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in the kernel it is just device mapper < 1279408516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very simple < 1279408541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, basically the kernel gets a list of byte ranges to map into one device < 1279408553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is all < 1279408562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LVM is quite complicated to set up, in fact I will say "bitch" -- do not disagree, compare installing normally to installing with lvm -- and maybe your favourite distro automates lvm setup but it won't be general, and crazy stuff is what lvm is for -- and its tools use obscure terminology, introducing like 500 terms just for precision < 1279408562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tricky stuff is all done in user space < 1279408577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's dumping a whole alien world on yourself and really i'd much rather just deal with extra partitions, I am but a simple man. < 1279408585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, dude I use arch. And lvm on top of software raid < 1279408588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't complex < 1279408597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay the learning curve is steep < 1279408604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely. < 1279408604 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I'll free up a comparable amount by uninstalling VS2008 < 1279408606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with that < 1279408612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easier to learn to use both vim and Emacs well than to learn LVM. < 1279408615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but it is a wonderful bliss once you learnt the tools < 1279408618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least when I tried I pretty much just cried. < 1279408636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Okay. I wager that your life is not significantly better than mine, or at least it won't be once I'm out of this mess. < 1279408638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use LVM. < 1279408644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use LVM. < 1279408646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you don't use all the options. I know what I use + a knowledge of what exists in what tool < 1279408648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't go through the learning curve. < 1279408650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore I win! < 1279408657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent a few days learning it. < 1279408666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes it took no more than that for me either < 1279408667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Royal pain, but it was nice afterwards. < 1279408669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The option of LVM didn't exist way, way back and nobody particularly cried about it. < 1279408685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People need to stop having ideas. :P < 1279408685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1279408697 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea < 1279408699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes drop haskell and everything. Lets go back to FORTRAN < 1279408700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I use Gentoo; it is very much manual setup there. < 1279408706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: NO STOP IT < 1279408712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, about the same under arch < 1279408717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dreams too, no more dreams < 1279408721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, no. We could've stopped with Lisp. < 1279408725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nelson mandela is the WORST PERSON EVER < 1279408727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what pikhq said :P < 1279408728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ASM! < 1279408731 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idea where all sciences are equal... < 1279408741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Is its installer "here's a shell"? < 1279408755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Gentoo has an actual installer now ... < 1279408765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No longer supported! < 1279408766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no but the installer has no clue about software raid or lvm < 1279408770 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I'll get a chance to try F# < 1279408770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to do that yourself < 1279408773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh. < 1279408774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Lovely. < 1279408781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yay! < 1279408784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: installer did last i used it < 1279408785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1279408805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster just said "yay" to "we no longer support installing without wanting to kill yourself". < 1279408809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Because all the maintainers for it left. < 1279408811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well you need to set it up in advance and tell it to use specific parts < 1279408813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1279408821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, arch installer is ncurses based. Quite nice < 1279408849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because gentoo install is not tricky. < 1279408858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always did stage3 < 1279408884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stage1 and Stage2 are no longer supported. < 1279408906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so? there's no reason for people not to have an easier option < 1279408907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, never tried those < 1279408910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is stage3 the wimpy one or stage1? < 1279408916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one involves compiling EVERY FUCKING THING < 1279408918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stage1? < 1279408921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The primary reason for that is because, well. All the reasoning behind it was sheer bullshit. < 1279408924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stage1 is more minimal < 1279408936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Stage3 is a functioning install in a tarball. < 1279408948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's no longer "compile everything"?! < 1279408948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, emerge -e world solves the issue < 1279408954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What has Gentoo become? < 1279408966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, you just need to install a few packages where there's multiple choices and write some config files. < 1279408976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1279408994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those tarballs are generated weekly. < 1279408996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also re-emerge stuff after changing useflags < 1279408998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i remember booting up a gentoo livecd and going into #gentoo and going hey so is the stuff about a 24 hour install really true it isn't is it ha ha let's laugh at that < 1279409005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well... actually, yeah, it does take about 24 hours." < 1279409007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[rage] < 1279409008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that often? Should try it out again in a chroot or vm < 1279409026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, it's now an autogen'd tarball and live CD. < 1279409032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what? You didn't believe that? < 1279409041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it takes 6 hours on a fast computer < 1279409045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and once you know it < 1279409059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm nice. Makes the rolling release even more rolling < 1279409060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want OpenOffice. :P < 1279409060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1279409068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, openoffice-bin=? < 1279409070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenOffice takes 2 fucking hours. Such pure shit. < 1279409070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=// < 1279409077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Thas not 64-bit. < 1279409079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want openoffice < 1279409083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no open office takes 8 hours or such iirc < 1279409091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, maybe on YOUR system :P < 1279409095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You wouldn't, but that's beside the point. :P < 1279409102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: See, *this* is why you should upgrade. < 1279409111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your computer is *6* *years* *old*. < 1279409113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you send me the money= < 1279409117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1279409126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What would you like for breakfast?" "A shit sandwich, please!" "But that takes seven years to prepare! And it's made out of shit!" "Shit sandwich, please!" < 1279409132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not this one. About a year and a half. < 1279409133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh come on, you have the money. < 1279409137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Tee. < 1279409137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, my thinkpad < 1279409147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I'm a student < 1279409148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is that a contraction of "tee hee"? < 1279409151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should tell you all < 1279409152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Okay, yeah; that one should be faster. < 1279409154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1279409160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, intel graphics though < 1279409163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a student from an upper-class family < 1279409174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, core 2 duo at 2.26 GHz < 1279409183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, upper middle class < 1279409183 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279409186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not upper class < 1279409188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually, try "a student from a land where college doesn't cost a year's pay". < 1279409218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. !US, hence only "university" is valid. < 1279409224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Your father is a professor and your mother is a journalist. And university is cheap in Europe. Unless the definition of class has changed recently, you're upper-class and you have enough money to buy a $200-$300 computer which would suck less. < 1279409240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, "college" in the UK means "sixth form college", the education after "high school" from 16 to 18. < 1279409249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, professors doesn't get as much money over here as they do in UK. < 1279409251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet < 1279409265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, nobody gets as much money in Sweden because of the tax. < 1279409271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1279409273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think journalists are pretty well-paid everywhere, though. < 1279409282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, *former journalist* < 1279409288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for a local newspaper < 1279409288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fair enough. < 1279409298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My robotic memory has failed me. < 1279409301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not one of the big country ones < 1279409310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snarky comment time: does anything in a local newspaper really count as "journalism"? < 1279409321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hexham Courant is the biggest waste of trees I've ever read. < 1279409327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that covers a large area! < 1279409328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though she told me she was offered a job at one of the big daily ones but didn't want to move so she said no < 1279409342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In the US "college" refers to any post-secondary education. < 1279409345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1279409346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ^ < 1279409373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for schools which don't offer *degrees*, I should say.) < 1279409380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current UK educational system: < 1279409381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, to be fair, it was one of the better local ones. < 1279409401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, I'd better look up the ages. < 1279409418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, does anything in a *newspaper* really count as "journalism" any more? < 1279409431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, those are freaking Murdoch rags now, right? < 1279409439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1279409443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it did back then. Oh and we have two good country wide news papers here. US != rest of world when it comes to news paper < 1279409450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Murdoch is not in Sweden < 1279409450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1279409461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not for any of the big ones < 1279409467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Count your lucky stars that Murdoch is not in Sweden. < 1279409473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I know < 1279409480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Murdoch single-handedly murders objective reporting. < 1279409485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, we don't have walmart of radioshack either < 1279409486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1279409499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/of/or/ < 1279409527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you have the population layout for Walmart to function. < 1279409535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, huh? < 1279409555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nursery: 3 to 4. < 1279409555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reception: 4 to 5. < 1279409555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First school: 5 to 9. < 1279409555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Middle school: 9 to 13. < 1279409555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High school: 13 to 15. < 1279409556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sixth form college: 16 to 18. < 1279409558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :University: 18 to bearded and banana-eating. < 1279409560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often, high school and sixth form are combined. < 1279409563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also I don't think we have starbucks but I could be wrong. None around here at least. Maybe in the big cities. *shrug* < 1279409574 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1279409591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nursery and reception are provided in the first school. < 1279409614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the old, two-tier system, primary school = first school and half of high school, secondary school = second half of high school and sixth form. < 1279409618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, we have ICA, Lidels, IKEA, KF and some other ones < 1279409620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How many places have both a decent population density and the room for a store that takes up 9,476.1 m^2, not counting the freaking gigantic parking lot, in Sweden? < 1279409631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably only Lidels (German in origin) and IKEA are known outside < 1279409637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the *average* size, BTW. < 1279409648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait. < 1279409654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the average size of the "discount stores". < 1279409664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18,301.9 m^2. < 1279409669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1279409674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thar. < 1279409678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no clue. Why so large < 1279409684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: PRODUCTS. MORE PRODUCTS. < 1279409694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I have no concept of how large 18,301.9 m² actually is < 1279409695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lidel? Is that how you Swedish spell Lidl? < 1279409704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIDL are immoral, btw. < 1279409704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, it is how I typod it :P < 1279409710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They have just about everything. < 1279409710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget why. < 1279409712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some scandal. < 1279409716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and yes they are known as being immoral here too < 1279409722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You have Aldi, I know that. < 1279409726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aldi are like Lidl except not immoral. < 1279409727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Aldi? < 1279409733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never heard of this < 1279409733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1279409743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, you don't have Aldi. < 1279409745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just checked. < 1279409750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1279409769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Basically like Lidl: everything own-brand discount supermarket. But nicer. < 1279409770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we have pretty much our own chains. Lidl is running at a loss in Sweden iirc. < 1279409790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like IKEA. < 1279409798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for their crazy tax dodges. < 1279409799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supermarket, garden center, pet shop, pharmacy, tire & oil changing, glasses, photo lab, portrait studio, and a random assortment of other seperate shops in the store. < 1279409803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well and that is the only one known outside Sweden iirc < 1279409808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often including a McDonalds and a *bank*. < 1279409808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Owned by a foundation owned by a charity and crossing many countries... < 1279409814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's gross. < 1279409817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the stores themselves are nice. < 1279409818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Walmarts are also gas stations. < 1279409823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, McDonalds we have here < 1279409828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also have Burger King and Max < 1279409832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Max is Swedish < 1279409837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think you get it. McDonalds *inside the store*. < 1279409838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in your supermarkets? < 1279409848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*These are all commonly in Walmarts*. < 1279409864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Max is from northen Sweden iirc. There is no McDonalds in north of Gävle iirc. They run at a loss north of there. Max all the way above < 1279409868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange by true < 1279409871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but* < 1279409888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in shopping centres yes. Not sure about supermarkets < 1279409900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :super markets tend to be in the form of shopping centres here < 1279409919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say I have seen any non-shopping centre supermarket < 1279409936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Okay, okay. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Walmart.JPG This is a *teensy* Walmart. < 1279409960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, looks quite small indeed. Hard to tell how large the building is < 1279409969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large parking lot though < 1279409997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit smaller than the parking lot. < 1279410012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, IKEA can be that big here < 1279410039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As big as that Walmart? < 1279410051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiny suckers. < 1279410052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279410056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hah < 1279410102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:IKEA,_Chicago_%28Schaumburg%29.jpg < 1279410106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that one is in US < 1279410109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks huge < 1279410132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. BTW, there's some 2,737 Wal-Marts Supercenters in the US. < 1279410187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find a similar aerial photo of a walmart < 1279410211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.redwingaerials.com/images/740_MKT_LAREDO_IMG_5955.jpg Here's one in Texas. < 1279410259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, maye twice the size of that IKEA? < 1279410261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rough guess < 1279410262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gas station there is *also* Walmart. < 1279410268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1279410271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even larger the < 1279410273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1279410298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And these things are everywhere. Freaking everywhere. < 1279410341 0 :augur!~augur@64.206.141.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279410588 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279410625 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279410674 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h126.22.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279410694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I have been unable to find any data on average IKEA sizes < 1279410741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, only thing I have been able to find is that: 9300 m² was tried as a small format but turned out to be unsucessful < 1279411142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Clang currently implements all of the ISO C++ 1998 standard (including the defects addressed in the ISO C++ 2003 standard) except for 'export' (which has been removed from the C++'0x draft)." <-- whaaat when did that happen < 1279411145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1279411173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They removed it because *everyone* refused to implement it. ;) < 1279411174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, the implementation of Clang C++ is still somewhat immature, with remaining bugs that may cause compiler crashes, erroneous errors and warnings, " <-- right < 1279411195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"or miscompiled code" got lost there somehow