< 1279411214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miscompiled code can happen, but it's rare < 1279411219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're discussing the freaking source-control version of Clang. < 1279411228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does that mean? < 1279411234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Clang 2.7 currently miscompiles computed gotos. < 1279411241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The one they have in their repos. < 1279411247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clang 2.7 doesn't support all of C++. < 1279411250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1279411252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clang 2.8 will. < 1279411257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well I use svn anyway < 1279411261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of llvm < 1279411263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I use it < 1279411280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to use gcc because it is shorter to type and out of habit < 1279411306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest using "make" for building programs. < 1279411319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a one-file program, you don't even need a Makefile! < 1279411321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes but writing CC = clang or just leaving that line out < 1279411333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, CC is in my .zshrc. < 1279411339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As are CFLAGS and LDFLAGS... < 1279411342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do that. < 1279411344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that breaks lots of things < 1279411351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I used to have CFLAGS in my .bashrc < 1279411359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gave up because it broke various strange apps < 1279411361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Things... Break... On CFLAGS? < 1279411375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes CFLAGS="-march=native -pipe -O2" iirc < 1279411378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either your CFLAGS suck ass or you should not ever ever ever ever ever ever ever touch those programs. < 1279411395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not ever ever ever ever evere ever ever ever ever touch those programs. < 1279411412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever wrote them was probably drunk and less intelligent than the average doorknob. < 1279411420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I blame gcc for this. However cfunge does not support gcc 4.5.0, miscompilation and haven't been able to pin point a minimal test case. < 1279411429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only at -O3 though < 1279411431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1279411454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-O3 is a compilation option that breaks pretty much all not-strictly-conformant code. < 1279411459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I don't think someone writing a cycle accurate x86 emulator could be that drunk. Or that dumb. < 1279411483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If it doesn't build with -O2 -pipe -march, *you are that fucking dumb*. < 1279411483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes but I'm pretty sure gcc messes up on some static inline with restrict pointers < 1279411506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also what about qemu? It used to need gcc 3.x < 1279411524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That used a metric fuckton of crazy shit. < 1279411535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yet it isn't dumb as such < 1279411543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-modifying code exempts you from my claim of stupidity. < 1279411577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that cycle accurate emulator was self modifying. And doing hacks to get into 32-bit mode from user space under a 64-bit linux app and what not < 1279411580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're doing self-modifying code, you are perfectly justified in demanding a specific compiler with specific CFLAGS. Because that's just that damned hard to do on multiple compilers. < 1279411581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot how it did it < 1279411584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it no longer works < 1279411603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Okay, why is it needing self-modifying code for *cycle accurate emulation*? < 1279411626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it did cycle accurate for only bits. That is you could select to only do that for some functions < 1279411636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1279411638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also there is a variant integrating with Xen for whole-system profiling < 1279411644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a cycle accurate emulator. < 1279411649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is by default < 1279411658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but for speeding up you can select doing only bits < 1279411676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1279411677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, since it is for profiling purposes mostly < 1279411684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it makes sense for that < 1279411687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a fekking cycle accurate emulator. < 1279411710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, _it is by default emulating a superscalar x86_ _cycle accurately_ < 1279411715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot which model < 1279411729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an emulator which happens to have a cycle accurate mode. < 1279411737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the cycle accurate mode is default < 1279411738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus possesses a cycle accurate emulator. < 1279411745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. And? < 1279411763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is a cycle accurate emulator that happens to possess a fast-forward < 1279411767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer that term :P < 1279411783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when it fast-forwards all pretensions of accuracy go the hell away. < 1279411801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1279411820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but since it is meant for profiling I think there is good reason to do this anyway < 1279411832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION beats AnMaster with a smart stick
< 1279411836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY WONT YOU SMART BECOME < 1279411862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and unless you are doing the Xen thing it will be user space only. Which means that system calls will be left to the OS < 1279411891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Waitwaitwait. It only emulates userspace? < 1279411921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, again there are two versions. The user space one. And the one that integrates with Xen. < 1279411923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, it's only doing the easy stuff. < 1279411931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only doing the easy stuff. < 1279411934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you fail so hard at reading < 1279411943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the one integrating with Xen do all the heavy work < 1279411975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? It emulates the bizarre, fucking-nuts IBM PC hardware? < 1279411980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Xen? < 1279411999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it translate Xen hypercalls through to Xen? < 1279412003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh it isn't emulating perpherials like original IBM PC. It is not doing i386 for fucks sake < 1279412010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oldest one it can do still has SSE < 1279412021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, because they completely don't care about older < 1279412029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it emulates super scalar by default < 1279412032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So, it's not emulating a full computer, but only passing Xen hypercalls through? < 1279412037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you misunderstood the goals < 1279412039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's *only doing the easy stuff*. < 1279412050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I don't know the details. It does all the CPU and MMU stuff I know < 1279412061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, since that is what it is meant to emulate < 1279412071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disk? Don't think so < 1279412075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor network card < 1279412086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah. It's doing the easy stuff. < 1279412107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, valgrind doesn't emulate a keyboard controller. Does that mean it fail at it's task? No < 1279412134 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279412186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is not meant to emulate games for god's sake. It is too slow for that. It is meant for accurate profiling. I used it to find that using HugeTLB would not be of any major benefit to cfunge < 1279412224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you see. I profile before I optimise :P < 1279412233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's meant for crazy people who believe in optimisation over readability. < 1279412256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, just stop trolling now :) < 1279412259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question you should ask before optimising is "is it fast enough", not "is it the WORLDS FASTEST". < 1279412275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, That Depends. On your goals < 1279412291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good code or 1337 code? Yeah. < 1279412302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no being the fastest in the world is fun < 1279412306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,* < 1279412315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1337! < 1279412323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I hate 1337 < 1279412334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would never spell it like that < 1279412359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"elite" is how I spell it < 1279412386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laik, yur codz r fast. 1337. < 1279412424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even decode "Laik" < 1279412440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also what about INTERCAL < 1279412452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL is motherfucking nuts. < 1279412460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, don't you love INTERCAL still? < 1279412471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, otherwise why the heck are you in this channel < 1279412476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I like it. < 1279412479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just motherfucking nuts. < 1279412486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1279413353 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279413596 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1279413679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AnMaster will never understand that using jokes to justify insane reality doesn't work; don't bother < 1279413729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, goodnight. < 1279413734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1279413920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you write lambdas in C. You should complain about 1337 C code :P < 1279413929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what you like to call it < 1279413947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/write/wrote/ < 1279414007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I do not advocate this as good code. < 1279414020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I advocate it as being absolutely stark raving mad. < 1279414028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I never advocated cfunge as good code < 1279414039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, my other C code is nothing like that < 1279414061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what you're saying is that cfunge is not good code? < 1279414063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I agree. < 1279414065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279414089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there is worse code than cfunge though < 1279414095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279414140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and it is fun to code < 1279414148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun to program* < 1279414166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it wasn't fun I wouldn't have done cfunge < 1279414473 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279416583 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1279417012 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1279417188 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279418552 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279418673 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1279419697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1279421506 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h52.40.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279421529 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What option gives all users read/write access to a mountpoint in fstab? < 1279421547 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too lazy to rtfm :) < 1279421754 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason even though I have rw and user options I can't write to my ipod. :P < 1279421758 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279422036 0 :jillsmitt!~quassel@95.58.179.255 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279424039 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1279424211 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279427368 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1279427791 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h171.12.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279427800 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279428508 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1279429699 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-16-95.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279429894 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279430259 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925351604.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1279433245 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279434053 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1279435747 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279435806 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a license called "Free World Licence". It is not a open source license. I also believe it is not a free software license, although they claim it is. I looked at it and it is full of problems. < 1279435813 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sometimes contradicts itself. < 1279435820 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not compatible with itself. < 1279435831 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It requires internet if you want to use it. < 1279435843 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone that modifies the software must have email. < 1279435980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you write an operating system using this license, it would be illegal to execute any software on it. < 1279436200 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not recomend using this license except for experimental purposes (at least it does allow conversion to GNU GPL by the original licensor). < 1279436441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you know! < 1279436481 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1279436632 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original licensor should always be able to apply whatever license e wants < 1279437114 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1279437527 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279437825 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279437839 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-16-95.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279437914 0 :augur_!~augur@pool-74-96-16-95.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279437951 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279437984 0 :augur_!~augur@pool-74-96-16-95.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279438026 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279438059 0 :augur_!~augur@pool-74-96-16-95.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279438106 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279438184 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279438199 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-16-95.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279438243 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279438274 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-16-95.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279438552 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279439482 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279439918 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279439999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1279440000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1279440093 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279440582 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279440752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1279441595 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279442712 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1279443091 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1279443164 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279443395 0 :nicodarious!~nicodario@91-67-107-187-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1279444290 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1279444337 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279444969 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-178.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279446523 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.76.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279446642 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279447353 0 :jillsmitt!~quassel@95.58.170.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279447695 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925108405.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1279447816 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1279448577 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-86.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279449367 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1279451115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,] < 1279451120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1279451483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I awake? < 1279451827 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I learned that I can't use tor nodes to connect to espernet. < 1279454040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1279454043 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1279454048 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1279454052 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1279454080 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.76.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279454080 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279454080 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279454080 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1279454895 0 :nicodarious!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279455561 0 :FireFly!~firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1279455566 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1279455566 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1279457394 0 :nicodarious_!~nicodario@91-67-107-187-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1279457605 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1279457605 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1279457605 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1279457686 0 :nicodarious_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1279461313 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1279461563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1279461832 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1279461883 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1279462474 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1279462529 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279462641 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279463175 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279463832 0 :jillsmitt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279464334 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1279464810 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-26-173.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1279465080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1279465086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1279465133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have all these plans for Yak but no starting point... < 1279465216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is Yak? < 1279465251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wanted to link oklopol to this, but I can't find him, so I'll link the whole channel instead: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~lorch/personal/self-ref.html < 1279465257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a self-referential quiz < 1279465264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we've talked about it < 1279465266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where almost all the questions ask what the answer to other questions is < 1279465268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I wasn't here < 1279465269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday < 1279465272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the conclusion of the discussion? < 1279465278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm curious: what do you think #20's answer is? < 1279465280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what it is < 1279465287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wonder what you think it is < 1279465289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't decided yet < 1279465298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shall I tell you? It's funny, actually. < 1279465314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (There are solutions that do not depend on #20 being correct, so this isn't a "spoiler".) < 1279465314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may as well tell me < 1279465327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I know, it says as much in the header < 1279465349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#20 is E. Ignorant people think standardised tests measure intelligence, ignorant people think barometers measure all of the weather (which is the combination of all the aspects listed above E). < 1279465352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore the answer is E. < 1279465371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was one of the suggestions on reddir < 1279465373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reddit < 1279465379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although someone else pointed out that E was self-contradictory < 1279465381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 99.99% certain it was the author's intention. < 1279465389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only because of extreme pedanticism of (only) < 1279465391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that it's only A && only B && only C && only D < 1279465393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1279465398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that if you pick a non-E answer it's only that < 1279465447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was going to do it with prolog but realised it'd be a bit of a bitch what with the question that involves primality or being divisible by 5 or whatever < 1279465448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking about it, temperature and latitude affect the barometer's output directly; wind velocity is caused by a pressure /gradient/ and so is affected by what the barometer measures, but doesn't affect it directly; and latitude is irrelevant to the barometer's output < 1279465467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, but that's irrelevant < 1279465473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standardised tests /don't/ measure intelligence, obviously < 1279465480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: not that much, 20 questions is small enough to just go prime(2), prime(3), prime(5), etc < 1279465486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they measure memorisation skills and ability to please pre-written answer shets < 1279465486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do arithmetic the good old Prolog way < 1279465490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sheets < 1279465500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: therefore it isn't asking what barometers measure < 1279465509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's asking what people wrongly think barometers measure < 1279465514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: at primary school, I was given lessons whose only purpose is to teach us how to do well on IQ tests < 1279465515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the weather < 1279465518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weather = A+B+C+D < 1279465520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*only purpose was < 1279465521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore the answer is E < 1279465530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree with "weather = A+B+C+D" < 1279465537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok, but /most people/ < 1279465540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think weather = A+B+C+D < 1279465558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :temperature, wind velocity, latitude, longitude = weather? < 1279465565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think things like precipitation type would matter just as much < 1279465566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, er, okay, i said it wrong < 1279465572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i'm saying is < 1279465585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes METAR tends to contain a lot more < 1279465589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and latitude and longitude influence the weather, but are hardly, in of themselves, weather < 1279465590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole snarkiness is "barometers measure longitude as much as standardised tests measure intelligence" and s/longitude/all the other options/ < 1279465606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I get they were trying to make a point along those lines < 1279465611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole thing is a sarcastic blight against standardised tests, and it specifically mentions "disagreeing with me" on #20, suggesting it isn't a "factual" answer < 1279465620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, E is definitely correct; the answers spell a sentence < 1279465625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iff the last answer is E < 1279465637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ofc, due to the Earth not being spherical, a barometer in a suitable enclosure can be used to measure altitude < 1279465640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :METAR LBBG 041600Z 12003MPS 310V290 1400 R04/P1500N R22/P1500U +SN BKN022 OVC050 M04/M07 Q1020 NOSIG 9949//91= < 1279465649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, put the qualifier on the wrong sentence < 1279465649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is an example metar, it is explained on wikipedia < 1279465665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a barometer in a suitable enclosure can be used to measure altitude < 1279465671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as for what Yak is, Yak Linux is the Yet New Name for my Linux distro < 1279465676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with its Yet New Design < 1279465679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, if you're at sea-level, due to the earth not being spherical you can use altitude to measure latitude < 1279465681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory at least < 1279465690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs from RAM -> Ram Linux -> what's an animal amongst friends? -> Yak Linux -> "comes pre-shaven" < 1279465696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it's minimal because it runs from RAM) < 1279465738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes it is called an altimeter then < 1279465748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pressure based altimeter < 1279465763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is that in theory, you can measure latitude with a barometer < 1279465771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes indeed. < 1279465775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you could use the Bernoulli effect to measure wind speed with a barometer, too < 1279465788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh *looks that up* < 1279465833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barometers can also measure libido, blood pressure and heart bpm < 1279465836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably < 1279465837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bars < 1279465865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this reminds me of an old puzzle I heard < 1279465877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was "how do you measure the height of a clock tower, using only a barometer?" < 1279465886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interesting thing about it was that there were multiple stated "right answers" < 1279465911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody likes my barometer measuring bars pun :( < 1279465915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am so sad i could cry forever. < 1279465931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh, I didn't realise it was a pun < 1279465935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar-o-meter < 1279465936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, bars is a common unit of air pressure < 1279465944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess it's not that punny < 1279465946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so I thought it was just a factual description < 1279465951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not punny, alise, not punny < 1279465954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop trying to be punny < 1279465958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it, punny is like funny < 1279465961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can do puns now < 1279465968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you are turning into AnMaster, stop it < 1279465986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1279465998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1279466024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't feel sad about it. You are approaching a higher level of humour < 1279466033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any suggested solutions for the clock tower problem, anyway? < 1279466043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway, Yak is inspired by Tiny Core Linux, which has a terminal, a graphical package manager and the standard set of command-line utilities running on X11 in a 10 MiB ISO. And it uses *glibc*! < 1279466049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, measure pressure at ground and at top < 1279466056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't think anyone in the universe would call your sense of humour higher than ... anyone < 1279466059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anything < 1279466064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then use whatever formula you sue for it < 1279466067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use* < 1279466071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I forgot what that one is < 1279466072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's probably the simplest, but it's incredibly inaccurate < 1279466102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stated answer(s) I saw to the problem started with that one, the least accurate on their list, and got progressively more accurate as time went on < 1279466110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: request a barometer with helicopter blades, get a really big tape measure, fly up holding one end < 1279466115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I win? < 1279466116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay. measure length of barometer, then measure how many multiples of barometers the clock tower height is < 1279466134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that wasn't actually a stated answer < 1279466136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure < 1279466141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whyever not? :D < 1279466152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: given that clock towers tend not to be straight, your answer won't work as is < 1279466158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an answer that works along those lines, though < 1279466173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh that varies. I have seen both straight and non-straight ones < 1279466184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, the one in this puzzle was apparently attached to a building < 1279466196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every clock tower I've seen has been narrower at the top than at the bottom, though < 1279466208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can middle-click but not right-click with a trackpad press (not button); explain this < 1279466213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :middle-click is top-right hand corner of trackpad < 1279466216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes they tend to have non-flat roof < 1279466218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roofs* < 1279466240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and clicking links with the top-right hand corner seems to do nothing, suggesting it's "button 4" < 1279466249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1279466254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right click is bottom-right hand corner < 1279466258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now why do i have a button 4? explain this < 1279466270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your trackpad have 4 corners < 1279466272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why < 1279466274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how can i set button 4 = right click? < 1279466278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bottom-right corner is awkward to press < 1279466282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: button 4 is mouse wheel scroll upwards < 1279466293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except not, apparently < 1279466299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it, i'm just going to try xev to see wtf is going on < 1279466333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 4 button mouse. + scroll up/down and tilt left/right < 1279466346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correction: < 1279466348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so left, right, middle, on-the-left-side < 1279466351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom-right hand: right click < 1279466357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top-right hand: middle click < 1279466366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anywhere else on trackpad: regular click < 1279466371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move hand up and down right side: scroll < 1279466383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, makes sense < 1279466386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now explain why top-left isn't right click < 1279466395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom-right is inconvenient because you can't rest your hands on the laptop while pressing it < 1279466397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's too far down < 1279466402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'd have < 1279466405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top-right: right click < 1279466407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top-left: middle click < 1279466413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know where to configure this stuff? < 1279466425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never heard of a trackpad doing it like this at all < 1279466429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is it synaptics? < 1279466434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ALPS < 1279466438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not < 1279466440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; would dmesg tell me? < 1279466441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what? < 1279466449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or lspci? < 1279466454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xorg.0.log or such < 1279466461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably one of the two; it's a decent laptop. < 1279466462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1279466470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact it's better than ThinkPads, nyah. :P < 1279466471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my thinkpad has ALPS < 1279466481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Synaptics. < 1279466483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I use my trackpoint on my thinkpad :P < 1279466494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway what laptop model is it then? < 1279466495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Touche. The rest of the laptop is superior, though :P < 1279466503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toshiba T133 or something. < 1279466506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1279466508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toshiba T150. < 1279466516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it have a magnisium roll cage? matte screen? < 1279466530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% typos < 1279466541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it has the perfect screen: it's technically glossy, which means you can use it outside perfectly, but the backlight is so good that you never see reflections when theres a picture on, even black. < 1279466564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sounds like it bleeds through then < 1279466571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope. < 1279466574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's silent, incredibly light (really, really light), has a long battery life, looks as slick as a MacBook, has 4 GiB of RAM, a fast but silent hard drive, the fan almost never goes on... < 1279466581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's cheap compared to a ThinkPad! < 1279466583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, light laptop = easier to steal < 1279466584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1279466588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPad: £1,000. This: £475. < 1279466603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I prefer the thinkpad look compared to macbooks < 1279466611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slab of black >> white thin thingy < 1279466614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it has a 1.3GHz Core 2 Duo, but actually it's faster than my other computers. < 1279466617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not thin and white. < 1279466628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my thinkpad has a 2.26 GHz Core 2 Duo < 1279466628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually crimsony red, though it comes in other colours. < 1279466632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's thin, but quite slabby. < 1279466641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Indeed. And it's probably not as fast as this. < 1279466644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? I don't know. < 1279466650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fan is usually never on or on at so low speed you can't hear it < 1279466650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems magical. I'm not sure what makes it so fast. < 1279466670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, this thing feels like a top-of-the-line Core 2. < 1279466677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1279466677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 has the 11 inch version of it. < 1279466687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how large is your one? < 1279466687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My screen is higher dpi than yours :P 118 ppi < 1279466705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah and? it means bitmap games are even more painful :P < 1279466709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1336x768 on 13". Yeah, too small for you, but I like it. The screen may be quite small but it has enough resolution to have a bunch of windows on the go. < 1279466712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *do* use bitmap graphics < 1279466714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Scale it 2x. :P < 1279466739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this laptop is amazing and I love it, so nyah. < 1279466747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't have that weird thing your ThinkPad has that you made that page about. < 1279466751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THUS SUPERIORITY. < 1279466761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I love large monitors. That is why I have a huge desktop monitor that I'm using atm < 1279466772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use a huge desktop monitor too. < 1279466780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh that page? just firmware upgrade tool < 1279466781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279466786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is a one off < 1279466786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, both me AND ais523 like this (his the smaller version), and only YOU like yours. < 1279466788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore we win. < 1279466805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't have to upgrade my SATA firmware. :P < 1279466809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay it doesn't work like that. I know several other people using R500 and loving them < 1279466820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay good point < 1279466824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're not in here, and you talk to them so they're probably stupid! < 1279466825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1279466827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, trackpoint still wins < 1279466831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My logic is infallible. Do not argue. < 1279466834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also magnesium roll cage < 1279466842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fluid draining holes < 1279466845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That means it's harder to destroy in case you need to. < 1279466850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0 keyboard flex < 1279466856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's easier to steal without you destroying it first. < 1279466860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My keyboard has 0 flex too. < 1279466869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how do you mean easier to steal? < 1279466883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1279466887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that didn't make any sense < 1279466887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it was weaker you could destroy it before someone managed to get it out of your hands! < 1279466895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about as reasonable as your "lighter is easier to steal" complaint. < 1279466896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, haha < 1279466904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a more serious note it's sturdy. < 1279466912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you still paid tons more than I did. :P < 1279466912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes but my lighter is easier to steal was followed by ";P" < 1279466924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, my jokes are good enough not to need indicators. >_> < 1279466929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh yes I did < 1279466945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and so did you for your iphone compared to my nokia < 1279466949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently what I paid for it is 5,337 SEK, but god knows what that was at the time. Financial meltdown fun! < 1279466963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, but my iPhone can do more shit. Also, it was the only phone that COULD do that shit at the time. < 1279466966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other smartphones are newer. < 1279466973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1279466974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Early adopter :P < 1279467027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How about this? Its screen is so good that even freetype's awful slightly-hinted subpixel rendering (with the SUPER ILLEGAL patent patch) is /beautiful/. < 1279467038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally. The subpixels are invisible without a magnifying glass. Even for you. < 1279467050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ... on a more interesting note ... < 1279467165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1279467265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you ever get the issue whre after typing a key your trackpad stops moving? < 1279467266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*where < 1279467271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move with trackpad, hit key, trackpad stops < 1279467296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, it's deliberate IIRC < 1279467305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's so easy to knock the trackpad by accident while typing < 1279467311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's irritating. < 1279467345 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow: "-rw------- 1 Ilari users 828831888 Jul 18 17:12 .xsession-errors". < 1279467363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Jesus fucking christ on a pogo stick. < 1279467366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you DO to poor X11? < 1279467375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So, say you were assembling a Linux distro. Where would you start? < 1279467409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1279467418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like me :P < 1279467421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems unlikely that I'd spend time making a Linux distro < 1279467431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But presuming you did. < 1279467432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't see how you can have a "super illegal patent patch" for software < 1279467438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the UK, there are no software patents here < 1279467445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arguably it's unenforceable even in the US < 1279467446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it enables the patented-by-Apple subpixel rendering < 1279467448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279467450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Ubuntu enable it < 1279467452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Ubuntu are US-based < 1279467457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore Ubuntu are breaking the law < 1279467458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ubuntu are not US-based < 1279467462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Canonical are < 1279467471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canonical owns Ubuntu < 1279467476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore Ubuntu must obey US law < 1279467478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not < 1279467486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure they're European < 1279467501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so they are < 1279467506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isle of Man, would you believe it < 1279467508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1279467542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be some complicated business reason to incorporate there < 1279467564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, have you seen /In re Proudler/? < 1279467584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the first software patent case to be tried in the US after /In re Bilski/ was judged < 1279467595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it rejected the patent for being an abstract idea < 1279467600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :citing Bilski as a reference < 1279467624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, it seems that software patents are already having difficulty being enforced in the US, as of a few weeks ago < 1279467670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279467680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, gnome? < 1279467699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : move with trackpad, hit key, trackpad stops <-- if ubuntu check mouse settings < 1279467703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe trackpad settings < 1279467705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them < 1279467733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disabled it since it broke completely turning off touchpad with Fn-Fx (whatever, thinkpad is not near here atm < 1279467734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1279467755 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B14CB7C.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279467790 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279467798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wow: "-rw------- 1 Ilari users 828831888 Jul 18 17:12 .xsession-errors". <-- 828 MB? < 1279467802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279467806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 829 for correct rounding < 1279467822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that should be 790 I think < 1279467851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a second, units(1) fail < 1279467852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1279467857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have: MB < 1279467857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want: < 1279467857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Definition: mega B = 8000000 bit < 1279467871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I've been trying to track down a problem with the webmail at the university < 1279467880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's something really dodgy about its https certificate < 1279467898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or maybe not < 1279467910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1279467920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no chain-of-trust from it; it claims to have been signed by "TERENA SSL CA" but doesn't have their signature on it < 1279467920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least it isn't like the Door any more < 1279467930 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.76.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279467932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked Terena's website; they exist, but don't provide certificates directly < 1279467932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what the fuck < 1279467940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather certificates signed by Comodo, who /are/ a genuine rot CA < 1279467944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: is that // functioning as citealics? heh < 1279467945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The battle system is a battle system. [...] You can save the game if you want sometimes. [...] The videogame has graphics and sound. The graphics are seen with your eyes and the sound is heard by your ears. When you start the game the graphics and the sound will occur almost at the same time, letting you know that the game has started. There is also text which players can read. [...] If you buy Final Fantasy XIII and like it, then you like Final Fa < 1279467945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ntasy XI < 1279467946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, very what the fuck < 1279467947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : II. If you buy Final Fantasy XIII and don't like it, then you don't like Final Fantasy XIII. It has things in it that some people might enjoy but other people who have different ideas of what is enjoyable may not actually enjoy it. [...] In conclusion, Final Fantasy XIII is a videogame." --100% Objective Review: Final Fantasy XIII, Destructoid; http://www.destructoid.com/100-objective-review-final-fantasy-xiii-179178.phtml < 1279467952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have I missed? < 1279467961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, ais523 swearing, must be serious < 1279467971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's a quoteswear < 1279467986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no compunctions against swearing when quoting someone else < 1279468007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"II. If you buy Final Fantasy XIII and don't like it, then you don't like Final Fantasy XIII. It has things in it that some people might enjoy but other people who have different ideas of what is enjoyable may not actually enjoy it." <-- zzo? < 1279468027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, the whole point is to be literal and factual and precise all the way through. < 1279468032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yes. < 1279468041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : meanwhile, I've been trying to track down a problem with the webmail at the university because there's something really dodgy about its https certificate there's no chain-of-trust from it; it claims to have been signed by "TERENA SSL CA" but doesn't have their signature on it I checked Terena's website; they exist, but don't provide certificates directly but rather certificates signed by Comodo, who /are/ < 1279468042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a genuine root CA < 1279468067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to formulate a way to make ais523 damn another person
< 1279468094 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279468146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Shepherd_Conservation_Society haha awesome < 1279468156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's go out into international waters and BEAT THE FUCK UP some whalers." < 1279468171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're like the batman of anti-whalers < 1279468267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sea Shepherd has responded by stating that its actions constitute enforcement of international maritime law under the United Nations World Charter for Nature." < 1279468270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like Batman. < 1279468305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: any ideas as to what's going on? do you think someone's trying to MitM me < 1279468311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, awesome indeed < 1279468316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if so, why would they go for a relatively obscure webmail service? < 1279468324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only serves on University? < 1279468342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no. nobody is trying to mitm you < 1279468342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, the University IT staff went and bought a bogus certificate and didn't even test it < 1279468345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your university is just incompetent < 1279468346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know this < 1279468353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't know < 1279468353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I agree that a MitM seems unlikely < 1279468359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it would just be far too specific to make sense < 1279468364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1279468365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, AnMaster supporting a non-pacifist group < 1279468367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a new one. < 1279468385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can sort-of understand a student deciding to hack into the University and steal everyone's passwords, though < 1279468388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it would explain the target < 1279468406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can also just about believe that the IT staff bought a bogus certificate and didn't even test it before putting it online < 1279468408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, contact the IT staff and ask them about it < 1279468413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done < 1279468416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the student would have to have bought a certificate < 1279468416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no response yet < 1279468420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no? < 1279468420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is bad anyway < 1279468423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just fake one? < 1279468425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no? < 1279468430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cert isn't signed by a root CA, or anyone else for that matter < 1279468436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a self-signed cert with Terena's name on it < 1279468439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1279468447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I imagine your university just sucks. < 1279468453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279468456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least as far as IT goes. < 1279468467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it's Birmingham so it's probably awful! :P < 1279468467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which uni is it now again? < 1279468472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: U of Birmingham. < 1279468472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birmingham < 1279468474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1279468488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*University; "U" seems weird at the start. < 1279468489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with UK cities and -ham? < 1279468494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the uni's good mostly, but their IT staff do have various issues < 1279468501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's an ancient suffix meaning "town" < 1279468504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1279468511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it means they eat a lot of ham. < 1279468511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it ends up in quite a lot of placenames < 1279468521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :P < 1279468522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -shire also < 1279468528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for surrounding areas around some cities) < 1279468531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Birmingham" translates as "the town of the people of Beorma" < 1279468536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oxfordshire, Lincolnshire, ... < 1279468538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, meaning "surrounding area? < 1279468539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1279468550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, that's what it means; I don't know what it originally means < 1279468555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1279468556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something ancient, presumably < 1279468563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: originally it was a particular sort of area < 1279468568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of administrative division < 1279468575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1279468578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like we have counties nowadays < 1279468631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it occurs to me that the UK's provisions for avoiding people becoming stateless are irrelevant to the determined person < 1279468643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get citizenship in a country that doesn't have such precautions, renounce UK citizenship, renounce other country's citizenship < 1279468652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would someone be determined to become stateless? < 1279468655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it is more work < 1279468655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, it's probably more a safety feature than an anti-free-man people :P < 1279468660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an anti-free-man feature < 1279468664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it's a UN rule that people can't become stateless, not just UK in general < 1279468666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the hell of it? < 1279468675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try US, then < 1279468681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1279468683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you said EU < 1279468691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: becoming stateless would destroy your life, pretty much < 1279468694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1279468694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't legally be able to go anywhere < 1279468702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what I'd /really/ like to be is a pure European Citizen < 1279468702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the sort of thing you do just for the hell of it < 1279468728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already happy living in a country as a European Citizen; you get to vote and everything. I don't really want to be a British citizen. < 1279468780 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1279468833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should just make the EU not suck, have a handful of US states and areas (the good ones) secede to Canada, bomb the US, then have Canada join the EU < 1279468836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*EU. < 1279468841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have said it before and I will say it again. :P < 1279468891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree with bombing the US < 1279468901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would cause a huge waste of innocent life, on both sides of the Atlantic < 1279468929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does that mean you agree with the rest of that? < 1279468933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Shut up :P < 1279468939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it couldn't be the EU bombing the US, as that would contradict the hypothesis that the EU did not suck at that point < 1279468943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe China < 1279468943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, we can just get the people out of the US then cut it away from the rest. < 1279468944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a knife. < 1279468949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good point < 1279468965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people of those shitty states can go to the cold parts of Canada. They have the room. < 1279468991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Now it's a perfect plan. < 1279469045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unless we also support global warming, i doubt those parts have the food productivity... < 1279469064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ... they can go to the moon then < 1279469075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, new plan. < 1279469089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then they might haul comets and asteroids at us < 1279469118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the EU not suck. The good parts of America secede to Canada, and take over the rest of the US for Canada. Canada makes those areas not suck gradually, becoming more like the good areas. The Canada joins the EU. < 1279469145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, boring :P < 1279469237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, okay, hmm... < 1279469243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not thinking about the plan. :P) < 1279469304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to mention that the mutual-thinking-the-others-suck is a main part of the reason why anyone sucks in the first place < 1279469311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the hypothesis that < 1279469340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, where should that correction go < 1279469349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: first that < 1279469353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1279469361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from there to conclude that alise's viewpoint is a part of the problem, not the solution < 1279469371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you suggesting we keep Texas? < 1279469375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279469385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm joking ofc < 1279469432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you should know by now that in this channel we often takes jokes seriously and try to make them work < 1279469458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I ever say I didn't know that? < 1279469492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but you didn't say the opposite either < 1279469518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is now making an ass out of u and me < 1279469529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what? < 1279469535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u? < 1279469541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use that for "you"? < 1279469547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is completely unexpected < 1279469553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in this particular context < 1279469563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is it some reference? < 1279469567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1279469570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assumptions, on the other hand, make an ass out of u and mption. < 1279469574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't get it :P < 1279469583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we no u dont get it < 1279469586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur dum < 1279469638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumb isn't same as not knowing references. Your joke about mption I did get however. < 1279469639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1279469727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: (There are solutions that do not depend on #20 being correct, so this isn't a "spoiler".) < 1279469738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't mind having four of them, that is < 1279469750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lol < 1279469754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i give it away and you don't even get it < 1279469763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hey now _you_ are assuming < 1279469779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think it's pretty clear he has no idea < 1279469795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people keep following @tusho < 1279469820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't trust your judgement on AnMaster to be unbiased in such matters < 1279469851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, I don't get it :P < 1279469851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dumb isn't same as not knowing references. Your joke about mption I did get however. < 1279469864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you making brilliant twits, perhaps? < 1279469892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: none at all < 1279469907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is way too tired
< 1279469913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your 18 friends are waiting" --Facebook email. < 1279469914 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: maybe it's a zen thing, then. tusho _does_ sound japanese, after all. < 1279469922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: or a weeaboo thing :-D < 1279469934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION scuttles to google
< 1279469934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you on Facebook? < 1279469947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a site I refuse to have anything to do with < 1279469964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Perry Bible Fellowship reference turned meme. < 1279469976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means "japanophile" in a more insulting way although is often self-applied. < 1279469987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://knowyourmeme.com/i/29097/original/PBF071-Weeaboo.gif < 1279470009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only technically < 1279470018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK < 1279470018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i made an account once never intending to use it, now i get spam about it < 1279470026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it only steals the parts of your soul you're willing to give it < 1279470029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i certainly haven't given them any of my details < 1279470032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1279470038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes google claims wikipedia's japanophile article contains the term. it doesn't now.
< 1279470041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just cba to delete it, I get fluff in my inbox anyway < 1279470065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to create a new email account and a new IM (Live Messenger) account. < 1279470072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then convince everyone I know to switch to Jabber. < 1279470079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Never happening.) < 1279470099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Google Talk uses Jabber < 1279470112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it does. < 1279470123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And everyone I know uses Live because everyone that everyone I know knows uses Live. < 1279470136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore nobody I know switches to Jabber, therefore they use Live, therefore people who know them use Live because they use Live. < 1279470138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catch-22. < 1279470177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people in my area use AIM, my "boss" for this project uses GTalk, my "co-worker" uses Live, as does [co-incidentally] my best friend < 1279470185 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO ALISE HOW ARE YOU < 1279470195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I just realised: happy bday < 1279470199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: CAPITALISM. < 1279470204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: unhappy birthday < 1279470211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1279470214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: AIM is most common in America, Live in the UK. < 1279470219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ho? < 1279470227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: crazily silly birthday < 1279470280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: CAPITALISTIC BIRTHDAY < 1279470282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what AnMaster _didn't_ realize is that Gregor has been idle for 17 hours < 1279470319 0 :DH____!~DHeadshot@cpc2-woki2-0-0-cust667.glfd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279470328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or HAS he? < 1279470349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right. let's make no more asses. < 1279470374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perrybiblefellowship.com now redirects to the book, even though a new comic was posted recently < 1279470380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1279470383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pbfcomics.com < 1279470468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm 99.99% certain it was the author's intention. < 1279470472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I think he reads scrollback < 1279470474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't he? < 1279470497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sentence made up of the answers if you use E is kind of a hint, there... < 1279470508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed; i forgot about it at that point < 1279470653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: I was going to do it with prolog but realised it'd be a bit of a bitch what with the question that involves primality or being divisible by 5 or whatever < 1279470660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, anyone have tips for building a small kdrive? < 1279470677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictly speaking you never need to program that one, it falls out of the rest < 1279470690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: howso? because it can't be that answer? < 1279470695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never need to program anything, of course < 1279470699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just inline the answer < 1279470726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of the information fixes what that question has to be without considering its options < 1279470753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1279470756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i don't recall every checking it < 1279470766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in prolog it'll be a bitch though < 1279470767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(before the number was fixed) < 1279470768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1279470791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, hm, maybe it was fixed before the number < 1279470792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q1(a) :- q1(b). < 1279470799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will this break in Prolog if you do q1(X)? < 1279470802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming their are other rules < 1279470816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it won't break q1(X) < 1279470820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case i never used the options to determine the answer of it < 1279470827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it backtracks to checking q1(a), it'll recursively try q1(b) < 1279470835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as that doesn't cause infinite recursion, you don't get an infinite loop < 1279470845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so this is kosher? < 1279470846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% The first question whose answer B is question < 1279470846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q1(a) :- q1(b). % (A) 1 < 1279470846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q1(b) :- q2(b). % (B) 2 < 1279470846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q1(c) :- q3(b). % (C) 3 < 1279470846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q1(d) :- q4(b). % (D) 4 < 1279470848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q1(e) :- q5(b). % (E) 5 < 1279470862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's OK as long as you don't cause a loop < 1279470864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you don't want to do it that way, you want to pass the answers as an argument not read them off the database < 1279470868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, doing that for every question, it will cause a loop < 1279470872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it probably won't. maybe. < 1279470875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why? < 1279470902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: because it's awkward to backtrack over something that's fixed in the database? < 1279470902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way utilises prolog's strength < 1279470907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it isn't fixed < 1279470912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qN are all predicates over their answer < 1279471008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but you are not passing the information of what the answer is to the right side < 1279471023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the a and b in the first clause are not unified with each other < 1279471048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well I can always omit the a option < 1279471052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's trivially contradictory < 1279471055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it work then? < 1279471133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in q2, do I have to codify that no other questions have such answers? < 1279471141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I do < 1279471149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have to write out 18 things of the form < 1279471151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt that it works. < 1279471153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait much more < 1279471158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh I'll just assume it < 1279471166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow q3 will be difficult to code < 1279471171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will it work, you know prolog better :P < 1279471294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, q1(X) only says that X is _a_ possible answer to question 1. if there is more than one solution that trivially breaks down because a clause like q1(b) :- q2(b) doesn't even say that those assignments belong to the same global solution < 1279471414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Firefox is not available in the standard repository, but the ultra-fast Minefield is - a customized version of Firefox." *rage* < 1279471424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well darn < 1279471455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if there is only one _global_ solution, it might still break down because you are only looking at local parts of it, with no necessary global consistency < 1279471487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to pass the global solution somehow to assure global consistency. < 1279471508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1279471541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1279471543 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.76.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279471547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reboots into Tiny Core Linux
< 1279471550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1279471837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and thus, if you're at sea-level, due to the earth not being spherical you can use altitude to measure latitude < 1279471878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _think_ sea level is approximately a gravitational equipotential surface all over the world < 1279471912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-sphericality is due to rotation, but that _also_ affects gravitational potential in general relativity < 1279471940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether atmospheric pressure is directly related to that, i'm not sure < 1279472026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an intuitive (to me anyhow) argument is that if sea level was not at the same gravitational potential everywhere, the water would _fall_ to the lower potential. of course there are other forces modifying this. < 1279472041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: except that the rotation affects the water the same way it affects the crust < 1279472049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an intuitive to me answer that it's different < 1279472069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the rotation would counteract gravity as well < 1279472080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1279472084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you trying to agree or disagree with me? < 1279472090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't know < 1279472129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note same gravitational potential doesn't mean same gravitational acceleration, i think < 1279472147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I know nothing or relativity so *shrug* < 1279472194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think both the water _and_ the crust bulges at the equator precisely _because_ the rotation counteracts gravity (and in general relativity, is unified with it) < 1279472206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep < 1279472209 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.76.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279472223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what effect does that have on air pressure? < 1279472230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything like VESA that supports arbitrary resolutions? < 1279472233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this sort of question is what Usenet is for, but I don't know where to ask < 1279472246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: usenet is useless nowadays < 1279472249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: seems unlikely, video resolutions have historically been a mess < 1279472251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the question? < 1279472255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not sure < 1279472271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: whether average air pressure at sea level varies by latitude < 1279472284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why or why not < 1279472285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to try some miracle fruit. < 1279472293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it sounds like a drug when you say it like that. < 1279472295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're getting confused trying to work out the effect of the Earth's rotatoin on it < 1279472312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rotation < 1279472325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gravitational acceleration _does_ vary, iirc < 1279472344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is air pressure determined by potential, acceleration, or both... < 1279472347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shouldn't the air bulge in just the same way as the crust and the water? < 1279472369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what affect does that have on /pressure/? < 1279472374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good question < 1279472388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to google < 1279472421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol they've made E. coli express miraculin < 1279472424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet death < 1279472459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway < 1279472465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck my ethernet controller with a stick < 1279472478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that sounds kind-of painful < 1279472492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people are into that! < 1279472515 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-35-96.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1279472569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more to the point, even /the last ubuntu release/ didn't support it < 1279472574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiny core linux doesn't either < 1279472609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configuring the kernel is tedious < 1279472650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_pressure seems to say nothing relevant about latitude. maybe there is no effect or it is swamped by other factors... < 1279472657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone ever built kdrive? :P < 1279472659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or indeed X? < 1279472668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka weather) < 1279472706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i wish jwm had a less shit config file < 1279472731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's that map at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_pressure#Mean_sea_level_pressure < 1279472802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ought to just make a good wm grumble < 1279472804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YakWM :P < 1279472816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that really doesn't even look approximately symmetric about the equator < 1279472877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe _very_ approximately < 1279472895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ignore antarctica < 1279473052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that the "GTK+" fltk theme is bearable
< 1279473066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a C binding to a C++ lib. sounds "fun" < 1279473092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you allowed a C++ wrapper with extern "C" in it? < 1279473128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what controller is that? < 1279473135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1279473138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1279473141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that realtek one or something < 1279473152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i want to write a c program using fltk < 1279473155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fltk is a c++ library < 1279473157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo... < 1279473160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : configuring the kernel is tedious <-- suggestion, do like I did recently. Get ubuntu kernel, edit the single option I needed to edit, build, install packages < 1279473165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way I have it as a package too < 1279473176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually I needed a patch and and two options < 1279473180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you see my point anyway < 1279473184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but actually i want to change most options < 1279473187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make the kernel tiny < 1279473201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, then tough luck :P < 1279473205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, if i can't fit a usable desktop (more complete than tiny core) in 30-40 MiB, I'll kill myself < 1279473240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually i guess what i really want is a sh binding to fltk :P < 1279473246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, I did some more changes. Turning off lots of modules I didn't need. To reduce compile time < 1279473248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an sh < 1279473253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need modules for dell laptops for example < 1279473256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Modules? No modules. < 1279473258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or modules for TV turners < 1279473262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can't afford modules. < 1279473293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's that insane envbot hack that sets variables in the parent/ < 1279473294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*parent? < 1279473297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like tcl's uplevel < 1279473305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, meh. I need them on my thinkpad. I need backported wlan drivers on 2.6.31 (yes the main reason was to downgrade from 2.6.32 due to bug halving battery life compared to 2.6.31) < 1279473309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and can it define functions? < 1279473331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, not sure about functions < 1279473335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think it could with eval < 1279473347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and it is printf -v. Of course using eval would work < 1279473356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1279473366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, though it depends on the variable not being declared local as well in the calle < 1279473372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all that would set it's own variable then < 1279473374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1279473386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so you can just do eval 'foo () { }'? < 1279473387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1279473388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1279473395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't know. I think you can < 1279473402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not sure if you can inside a function < 1279473404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never tried < 1279473408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fltk_setup < 1279473411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would definitely work at top level, or should < 1279473419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win = $(window 100 100 200 90) < 1279473420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, fltk? < 1279473421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279473427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :label $win $0 < 1279473427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1279473428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1279473431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION listens to GRegor-op13-mov2-wipp9.flac
< 1279473433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the only gui toolkit that doesn't suck < 1279473438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised you don't know of it < 1279473442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh right < 1279473444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its only flaw is being C++ < 1279473446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name sounds familiar now < 1279473462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember any details about it < 1279473501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for something like flwm but with less suckage
< 1279473502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, from what I remember wxwidgets isn't too shitty apart from being C++ < 1279473503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe aewm < 1279473519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: uses (bloated) gtk as backend on X11, is C++y C++ (whereas FLTK is "just plain OOP" C++) < 1279473526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is overcomplicated < 1279473529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah right < 1279473552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, GTK+ looks nice though. I like clearlooks quite a lot < 1279473563 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/7895242/Mystery-trader-buys-all-Europes-cocoa.html < 1279473567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, from a programming POV it is not as good < 1279473569 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admit, it was you. < 1279473589 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h69.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279473591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://www.fltk.org/shots.php <-- hm... < 1279473600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does fltk support themes? < 1279473615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't really like it's default style. Reminds me of old gtk/gnome versions < 1279473618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I didn't like < 1279473645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been back when I used red hat < 1279473648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1279473657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not completely sure of when it was < 1279473706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes it does < 1279473713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing that annoys me about gnome currently is that several useful gnome settings seem to only be accessible through gconf-editor... :/ < 1279473715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the "GTK+" theme -- which doesn't seem to be anything to do with GTK -- is nice < 1279473722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to be more like that for every release < 1279473742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm. So it isn't like the QT GTK+ theme which actually uses GTK? < 1279473777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't, it's its own style < 1279473792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any screenshot of it? :) < 1279473814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'll try and get one < 1279473826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1279473841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just need to download some "demo" program < 1279473994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: might take a little while < 1279474004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, btw how do you set theme for it? does it use some config panel app or do you edit a config file? Or perhaps it is up to each program using the toolkit? < 1279474058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "program -s[cheme] foo", I think it provides additional options to all programs (probably opt-out-able) < 1279474063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's some env var < 1279474064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1279474067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or config file < 1279474076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programs can presumably set it < 1279474078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1279474081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, Fl_Text_Editor is a whole port of nedit < 1279474089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can do syntax highlighting and everything < 1279474095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does that means it provides main() for you? and you use some other entry point? < 1279474122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1279474135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1279474135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1279474135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1279474135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1279474135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { < 1279474136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fl_Window* w = new Fl_Window(330, 190); < 1279474138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : new Fl_Button(110, 130, 100, 35, "Okay"); < 1279474140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : w->end(); < 1279474142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : w->show(argc, argv); < 1279474143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1279474144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return Fl::run(); < 1279474146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1279474148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ->show is presumably what does it. < 1279474153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could override that. < 1279474155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1279474160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1279474168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w->show(3, { "", "-s", "GTK+" }); < 1279474177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't SDL provide main() or something like that? < 1279474192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember there was something strange with SDL_main() or such < 1279474209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez the fltk demo programs suck < 1279474211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah on OS X < 1279474230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaks at least the haskell binding, you have to expose a haskell program to c and write a short bit of c to fix it < 1279474232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bitch. < 1279474257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1279474279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to find a representative screen from the ui designer instead of trying the demo programs
< 1279474331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using haskell ←→ bindings feel kind of being a traitor to haskell if you see what I mean < 1279474353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. The IO monad is impure anyway. < 1279474362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some sort of impure-bindings monad? < 1279474363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're an FRP geek, in which case good for you. < 1279474367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, IO < 1279474371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1279474381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels a bit wrong to have everything impure just stuffed into IO < 1279474392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I suppose it makes sense as an "ordering of side-effects monad2 < 1279474394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you could use the evil io-to-st stuff if it's just state it does < 1279474396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/2$/"/ < 1279474397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, remember that setting for editing a shortcut by typing a key while hovering over the menu item? < 1279474401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :state and real-world effects < 1279474406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other kinds of impurity would there be? < 1279474407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none, really < 1279474409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1279474419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost a decent idea, it just needs to be impossible to trigger by accident < 1279474420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://i.imgur.com/ajm2X.png <-- here's a small but representative sample of the GTK+ theme < 1279474422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it seems to only exist in gconf nowdays. At least I can't find it in any other place < 1279474430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's basically like the default theme, but smoothed and rounded and less ugly-3D < 1279474435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly usable < 1279474435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, if double-clicking on the shortcut edited it, I'd have no problem < 1279474464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make it double-right-click if you don't want to wait after the first click to see if there's a second < 1279474483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the GTK+ theme seems quite new; it didn't have it the last time I tried it < 1279474483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, annoying since I wanted to edit some short cuts for the gnome-terminal. I use both konsole and gnome-terminal (on different computers) and 1) I prefer the konsole ones for switching between tabs, more friendly on the hands 2) I prefer having the same in both. < 1279474487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah hm < 1279474497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm quite happy with fltk, it's just that i don't want to use C++. < 1279474500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm how is that like GTK+ ? < 1279474502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can just use pyfltk i guess but i'm no python fan < 1279474504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: god knows < 1279474514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it doesn't use gtk colours, maybe it looks like the author's favourite gtk theme < 1279474519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1279474520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1279474522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is "-s GTK+" makes fltk apps suddenly look nice < 1279474525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm satisfied < 1279474532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it looks nothing like clearlooks however. < 1279474533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1279474538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, this means dillo doesn't necessarily have to be totally ugly < 1279474542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the only remaining issue with dillo is that it sucks at rendering. < 1279474572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, it depends on fltk2 < 1279474582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(experimental version) < 1279474586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1279474593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why is that so bad? < 1279474602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fltk2 isn't in debian :P < 1279474606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or ubuntu) < 1279474610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone uses 1.1 < 1279474613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2 is a moving target < 1279474619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, dillo 2 is new and shiny, so... < 1279474622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol dillo "shiny" < 1279474627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i laff, i laff < 1279474642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm I just had an idea. However... Did you say before that you wanted to make a small linux distro? And if you did, did you seriously mean it? < 1279474650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Absolutely. < 1279474660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 30 MiB for base graphical install; with a browser if I have my way. < 1279474660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1279474665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run from RAM, always. < 1279474684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously: with 4 GiB of RAM, you can even run an Ubuntu install from RAM and have half left. < 1279474698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Substitute a much less bloated distro, and you have ... all the software you ever need. Running from RAM. Insanely quickly. < 1279474725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, some random notes: you can save a lot on /usr/share/icons/**/*.png by 1) optipng, advpng and advdef 2) hardlinking identical icons. < 1279474739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I remember, on my system I saved something like 10 MB when I tested that < 1279474753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 7 from compressing, and the rest from hardlinking < 1279474756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hell, there won't be many icons. < 1279474770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a few on the desktop, maybe some in the menu, and the basic set, maybe tango < 1279474778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't bother with svg or anything < 1279474788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but thanks for the tip < 1279474792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right. Oh btw I didn't hard link between themes for those numbers. Doing so saved about another 5 MB. Mostly on the KDE icon themes < 1279474793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardlinking? I'd rather not < 1279474795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does softlinking work? < 1279474813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well probably, but I happened to have a tool for automatic hardlinking of identical files handy < 1279474816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is what I used < 1279474830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea if apps like symlinks there < 1279474836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully they do < 1279474837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason not to < 1279474900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh another thing, iirc gtk creates some icon cache file. Good if you don't care about space because that way it just mmaps that file containing the icons into the processes that needs it. Saves on RAM and such. But it means a file about the same size as the icons. Which might be an issue < 1279474915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same size as the icons combined I mean < 1279474936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but does it create it on bootup? < 1279474939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in /tmp? < 1279474945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, that's fine; it'll go into ram and not be saved < 1279474952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusingly, the whole thing will run off a tmpfs :-) < 1279474985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, trying aewm < 1279474996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279475039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/icons/gnome-previous $ (du -sh --total *x*/; du -bsh --total *x*/) | grep total; du -bsh icon-theme.cache < 1279475039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11M totalt < 1279475039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2,4M totalt < 1279475039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13M icon-theme.cache < 1279475040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1279475048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that diff between -sh and -bsh is strange < 1279475065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I guess it isn't unexpected with loads of small files < 1279475081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and gnome-previous is because I don't like the current gnome icon theme. They changed it for the worse recently < 1279475162 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279475165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dir with *.svg icons is 8.1/8.7 MB (actual-file-size/size-on-disk) < 1279475210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the *.png of all sizes combined that figure is 2.4/11 MB which is, as I said, a unexpectedly large difference < 1279475279 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279475375 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should create a channel on my IRC server, for Enhanced CWEB. < 1279475413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as +CWEB < 1279475421 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.78.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279475427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if aewm had more buttons on its window i'd totally use it < 1279475446 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Do you need more buttons on the window? Can't you just use three mouse buttons? < 1279475468 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you have a mouse only 1 button < 1279475476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, see log btw, a bit too much to repaste without being spammy < 1279475480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a two-button mouse, but it's a trackpad. < 1279475481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pastebin? < 1279475487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: So middle-clicking etc. is inconvenient for me. < 1279475488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spamy? spammy? hm which is the correct spelling < 1279475489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sure < 1279475491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'd forget which is which. :P < 1279475493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Spammy. < 1279475494 0 :DH____!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279475511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://sprunge.us/ZMYH < 1279475531 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think sprunge is a good pastebin, it can operate in plain text. HTML is not needed (unless you want syntax highlighting) < 1279475565 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can operate it even if you have no web-browser software installed, but it is still compatible with using any web-browser software to view the files (including text-only browsers) < 1279475645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w3m -dump http://sprunge.us/ZMYH?x | sed '/^$/d' < 1279475650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst way to get a line-numbered sprunge paste ever! < 1279475660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hah < 1279475687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another acceptable option is "curl http://sprunge.us/ZMYH | cat -n" :P < 1279475723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not-POSIX. < 1279475724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1279475739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.small-window-manager.de/pictures/sWMdoc-1.3.6.png ;; this works in slightly over 12 kib of disk space < 1279475741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1279475746 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make X window-manager, there would be no buttons on the window border. You could instead use different mouse buttons, single or double click, with or without modifier keys, for different functions. With the window manager's key held down, the mouse button can be used anywhere in the window. < 1279475753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has three buttons on the windows, you can give it a taskbar < 1279475761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess my brain truly does operate on windows 95 < 1279475778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the windows 95 interface isn't awful < 1279475789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good enough for enough purposes that it's rarely worth needing to try something better < 1279475791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1279475793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people are familiar with it < 1279475796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: On an actual, very serious note, have you checked out DirectFB? < 1279475796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course aliseOS's interface is far better < 1279475801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tiling WMs I just can't do < 1279475805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I would make window-manager with no icons. < 1279475807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as the uber-minimalist ones like evilwm < 1279475830 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have a lot of function by keyboard, all of which must use the window-manager's key. < 1279475832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a title bar, minimise, maximise, close buttons, alt-tab to switch between windows, and the ability to have a taskbar with a clock, a list of windows, and a nested menu to start programs with < 1279475835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and alt-drag to move a window < 1279475839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain can't operate with anything else < 1279475866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is that the one with an X server? < 1279475878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1279475879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It has a rootless X server as an option, yes. < 1279475887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm < 1279475890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: does it work well? < 1279475894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279475895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you seen xmonad? < 1279475901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder how sprunge allocates the urls. From what I remember it doesn't seem to be in order (which would indicate it is some sort of ASCII-encoded counter) < 1279475902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can it support 1366x768 < 1279475910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279475921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write window-manager, it don't use ALT+drag. But instead, wm-middlebutton to move a window. < 1279475922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: random while clash, then base-62 or something < 1279475924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how < 1279475929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do i need a silly fb driver < 1279475932 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not seen xmonad < 1279475935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is a bit too short for it being a pure hashsum without lots of collisions < 1279475948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It uses the Linux framebuffer for unaccelerated 2D, yes. < 1279475952 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O! It is written in Haskell. < 1279475954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm. that seems so inelegant. I wonder if there source for it is public < 1279475961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(accelerated 2D and 3D, it uses the DRI) < 1279475977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's basically what tinyurl does < 1279475988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's to stop people snooping around < 1279475990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other people's pastes < 1279475998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so i need an fb driver. < 1279476000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which fb driver? < 1279476011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, huh, I thought tinyurl did it in order. Or maybe they used to? Because if you look at the low numbers there is lots about unicycles iirc. < 1279476016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Palm webOS uses DirectFB. Interesting. < 1279476019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Any. < 1279476022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably they used to. < 1279476028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ unicycles < 1279476030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: orly? < 1279476031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs /dev/fb0. :) < 1279476037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: which one supports this hardware at that resolution < 1279476039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: I doubt there is one < 1279476044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's either ati or nvidia. all the same really < 1279476050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Which graphics card? < 1279476052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither has an fb driver i imagine, not an up to date one < 1279476056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it intel < 1279476065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iirc the creator of tinyurl had that as a hobby or something. < 1279476071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read that somewhere < 1279476073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, they *are* both up to date. < 1279476079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm < 1279476084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: still < 1279476091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FB drivers are much, *much* easier to keep up to date than X drivers. < 1279476095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i wish there was something that could just ... set things to goddamn resolutions < 1279476100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D acceleration stuff last changed in the 90s. < 1279476102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm who is behind sprunge I wonder < 1279476102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a vesa that could support 1366x768 < 1279476105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not hard < 1279476138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Srirupa Deadwyler, 407 Shurs Lane, PA 19128, US < 1279476148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1.2679703292 < 1279476150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks whois < 1279476153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1279476169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaaah. Why did VESA have to limit graphics modes so very much? < 1279476177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah it's so retarded < 1279476189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is my new unaccelerated graphics specification < 1279476206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS says to hardware, "give me modes". < 1279476219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fuck it, we're going to specify the *current* common graphics resolutions. Fuck expansion." < 1279476222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware gives a list of triples of three integers < 1279476238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS says to hardware, "I'll take (A,B,C)." < 1279476243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder how search engine crawlers will handle this one: http://sprunge.us/robots.txt < 1279476250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1279476254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS says to hardware, "I'll take (A,B,C) on ADDRESS." < 1279476261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware hooks into ADDRESS < 1279476262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to figure out how to find status code in firefox
< 1279476270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now ADDRESS is an A*B*C array < 1279476273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is bytes < 1279476277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 256col is C=1 < 1279476279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1279476286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you write by < 1279476291 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You might need a extension add-on for that. (Vonkeror has it built-in) < 1279476315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *gfx; < 1279476318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1279476319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm, found it. No idea if it is from some extension or not < 1279476322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned char *gfx = address; < 1279476323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be 200 < 1279476328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gfx[(y * width) + x] = rgb; < 1279476335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if C=3 < 1279476339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned char *gfx = address; < 1279476342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gfx[(y * width) + x] = r; < 1279476345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gfx[(y * width) + x + 1] = g; < 1279476348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gfx[(y * width) + x + 2] = b; < 1279476352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is there ANY ISSUE with this at all? < 1279476361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is there ANY WAY in which it is inferior to VESA? < 1279476365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought not. < 1279476391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's almost identical to VESA, except with less shity negotiation. < 1279476396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Precisely. < 1279476413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the negotiation is done, it *is* VESA. < 1279476418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely. < 1279476456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, and there's also a "ok, give up on ADDRESS". This disables the video and releases ADDRESS. You can then re-negotiate to, say, change the resolution. < 1279476466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So to change res to some foo that we know works: < 1279476479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's just "ok give up" < 1279476481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there's only ever one address < 1279476486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :release_gfx(); < 1279476493 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make window-manager, the only way you will be able to use a picture is as the background picture (tiled or exact size of the screen, but no stretch). Or use a solid color as a background. No picture/icon for anything else. < 1279476499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setup_gfx(new_width, new_height, new_depth); < 1279476507 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it will support both tiled and floating windows. < 1279476509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reorganise_windows_in_wm(); < 1279476511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :display(); < 1279476514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW THAT WAS HARD. < 1279476552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Please, please tell me how VESA is retarded. HOW did they not just think of doing this? < 1279476595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what bits does VESA include? the interface to software? Hardware protocol? Both? < 1279476598 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double-left-click title-bar to maximize (but not restore; title bar will be hidden for maximized windows), double-right-click title-bar to close. < 1279476628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: vesa is the hardware protocol < 1279476646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a vesa driver will be able to display a bunch of square resolutions up to about 1280x1024x32 on just about any device < 1279476650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming the device supports that) < 1279476652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowly, no acceleration < 1279476653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right. < 1279476654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it will work < 1279476659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: VESA hateth you. < 1279476662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the issue is IT FUCKING SUCKS AT RESOLUTIONS < 1279476672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is it possible to tell the card to use a mode without trying to negotiate for it? < 1279476683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with hardware protocol I meant "format of data sent between graphics card and monitor" < 1279476683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "fuck you vesa, i'm telling my good old buddy Mr. Card to just use 1366x768" < 1279476685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will that work? < 1279476688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah. no. < 1279476701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, it has hardcoded resolutions. < 1279476702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, single-left-click to activate the window for keyboard focus (if the configuration option HOVER_TO_FOCUS is not set), and maybe double-middle-click to switch floating/tiled? < 1279476705 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this?? < 1279476727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also your suggestion seems to assume rectangular monitor :( < 1279476735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: try sloppy focus -- hover to give keyboard focus, click to raise to top < 1279476743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes it does. < 1279476744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: suck it. < 1279476748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you know of any video cards that /don't/ assume rectangular monitor? < 1279476750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and even more importantly: rectangular pixels < 1279476752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AnMaster: < 1279476753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the gfx card can easily just ignore the portions not included in the rectangular shape < 1279476756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it doesn't assume that at all < 1279476762 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, if HOVER_TO_FOCUS is set, you still have to click to raise to top < 1279476765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a display with hexagonal pixels! < 1279476792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how would you do subpixel antialiasing? < 1279476822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't know enough about how it is done on regularly shaped display to answer that < 1279476834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I know the idea, but not the exact formula and such < 1279476857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's done by treating each subpixel as a pixel. And antialiasing. Seriously, that's it. < 1279476861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Simple. < 1279476871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You have a WxH area you want to put text on. < 1279476890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Render, greyscale antialiased, to a (3W)xH area, treating it as square (so text is really fat). < 1279476899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not for edges that are turned 90° compared to the sub pixels. With that I mean if you have like: |R|G|B| and a line like ------ through the middle of that < 1279476899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, you have each R,G,B pixel. < 1279476911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compress the (3W)xH to WxH by treating each pixel as R, G, B in succession. < 1279476918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're done. < 1279476922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You don't have to consider that at all. < 1279476928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1279476950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to do the greyscale antialiasing otherwise the text just looks like a rainbow party. < 1279476953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of pain. < 1279476953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't there cameras with hexagonal CCDs? < 1279476956 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, instead of HOVER_TO_FOCUS, set MOUSE_FOCUS_MODE: 0=left-click title only, 1=hover, 2=click anywhere in window, 5=hover and raise, 6=click anywhere in window and raise, 7=hover but click anywhere to raise < 1279476959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember reading about that < 1279476967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err hexagonal pixels on the CCD I mean < 1279476981 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this way of MOUSE_FOCUS_MODE more better? < 1279477044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how easy it would be to patch aewm and add moar butans. < 1279477049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Whoever designs those is an asshole. < 1279477090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the ultimate fate of all Linux users is FVWM. < 1279477185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "dual window manager prototype (minimalist dwm with no tags, just one view)" < 1279477196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The suckless guys are so crazy, they apply the adjective "minimalist" to a stripped-down fork of dwm, not dwm itself. < 1279477201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I seem to remember there was a good reason for it. < 1279477218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNR related iirc < 1279477220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: most efficient packing of 2d space? < 1279477243 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279477249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, could be that. It was ages ago I read about it. < 1279477282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hah. < 1279477295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, do you know how colour camera CCDs are conventionally designed? As squares of 4 elements: 1 blue, 1 red and two green. < 1279477315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :built up of lots of such groups < 1279477398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which results in some interesting post-processing before you have a "conventional" image file < 1279477571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh ede seems nice < 1279477581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLTK-based win95-like wm < 1279477592 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer window manager with no-buttons. I can make a no-icons window manager. And no desktop environment. < 1279477597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDE (Equinox Desktop Environment) is simple and fast desktop environment with familiar look and feel. EDE uses FLTK toolkit for GUI presentation and UNIX philosophy for it's design. < 1279477597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With UNIX philosophy, EDE splits each component in separate executable entity that do one job and do it good. This makes EDE very easy to alter on user needs or requirements. < 1279477597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDE is light and fast. It uses C++ carefully yielding fast startup, low memory usage and great portability. Also, we care not only about how EDE runs, but how much time is needed to compile it. < 1279477597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This facts makes EDE a perfect desktop environment for older computers and embedded devices. But, you can use it on your everyday hardware too. < 1279477625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc the desktop environment itself is a load of useless crap < 1279477629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the wm seems just fine < 1279477637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it even supports xft < 1279477638 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it can be done, dragging the mouse across the root window creates a floating terminal window. < 1279477646 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double-clicking creates a tiled terminal window. < 1279477673 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wm-space (or maybe some other key) creates a terminal window, also. < 1279477683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuck, Enlightenment. < 1279477712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EvilPoison. I hope that's a blend of evilwm and ratpoison :-) < 1279477720 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279477731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1279477734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evilwm with ratpoison keybindings < 1279477868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gilesorr.com/wm/table.html Awesome. < 1279477990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey i just realised what the unit /should/ have me for < 1279477992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crippling NIH < 1279478043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gilesorr.com/papers/otherwm2003/images/aewm.png jesus christ < 1279478212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll just use http://karmen.sourceforge.net/karmen-0.13-640x480.png :P < 1279478279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know i've gone crazy because i keep thinking in all seriousness "why does everyone else deliberately make mistakes when designing window managers?" < 1279478377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His figure andmovements were those of a puppet cut out of erot kleine schwester shingle and jerked by astring; and his address corresponded very well with his appearance.Now, if you think fit to sell me those spectacles, I willpay nackt freundin you the largest market price for glasses.The contrary is, of course, inzest bilder vater tochter the truth; I have always paiddearly for whatever kindness others have shown me.But now don't you want to buy abonnet o < 1279478377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r a cloak to carry home to bumsen und blasen your wife?Well, you're whistlin' now, birdie; that's my intention; set 'em allout. --sink sink socks < 1279478525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new postpostmodernism < 1279478622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NIH is, indeed, a crippling disease. < 1279478631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but an AWESOME one < 1279478637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279478658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless combined with other mental diseases like religion and craziness (a recognised mental disease). Then you get LoseThos. < 1279478675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the website changed. < 1279478679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karmen is an interesting-looking window manager. < 1279478681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have an x86_64 PC machine such as a Core_i7, a Core_2_Duo, a Pentium_D... < 1279478681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : nothing worse than a Pentium_4_Extreme_Edition, then enjoy the clean, 64-bit, < 1279478681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming environment of LoseThos. < 1279478685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre_emptive. < 1279478697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the new diaeresis. < 1279478697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1279478710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Too bloated! < 1279478731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It appears to be written using *ed*. < 1279478860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, the only editor. < 1279478894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, Karmen. < 1279478895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1279478900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you said that other K one. I forget what. < 1279478920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, I remember that screenshot. < 1279478927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the command issued you can tell he actually uses ed. < 1279478996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279479036 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h25.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279479051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a new motto (restating of KISS), which used to be something like "REMOVE EVERYTHING! Now make it not suck!" < 1279479062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preem_ptive < 1279479070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is "may it not be tricksy", said by E. E. Cummings to a French translator, telling him to use the regular form of his name, not "e e cummings". < 1279479121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* "Core_i7", "Core_2_Duo", "Pentium_D" and "Pentium_4_Extreme_Edition" are < 1279479121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trademarks of Intel Corp. < 1279479124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they're really not. < 1279479143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* "Linux" is probably a trademark owned by Linus Torvalds. < 1279479192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Linus Torvalds does own that trademark. < 1279479211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1279479211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279479240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, certainly. Some guy registered a trademark on it and then demanded royalties... < 1279479273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linus sued, and they settled with Linus having the trademark. < 1279479336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm joking. < 1279479341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if there's any OS ending in -sux
< 1279479369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's a Jesux. < 1279479377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279479389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a joke, but. < 1279479390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pudge.net/jesux/ < 1279479397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1279479398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reddit, today I was woken up by a squirrel jumping through my window, knocking all my shit over, tearing posters down, JUMPING ON TOP OF ME IN BED, and shitting everywhere. I have scratches on my back from it using me as a springboard." < 1279479400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME. < 1279479407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fucker climbed right through the hole his compadres had made in the mesh screen of my bedroom window. Super hot night, so I decided to sleep naked. Woken up by this lunatic scrabbling around my room, onto my bed, climbing up my guitar, jumping off shit, flying around like some rodent daredevil. I screamed like a little girl. Anyway, it jumped at me, I ducked, it used my back to jump onto my desk. Squirrel claw meets bare skin. What are my chances? Should I < 1279479408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see a doctor or vet?" < 1279479410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best night ever < 1279479444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"qmail replaces sendmail as the standard MTA (sendmail was written by a prominent homosexual)" < 1279479448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you /sure/ it's a joke < 1279479456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279479460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# chmod(1) accepts hexadecimal modes, such as 0x01B6" < 1279479461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how christian < 1279479464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One in very poor taste. < 1279479481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 0x01B6 < 1279479485 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execve failed: OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied < 1279479494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is some sort of perverse pleasure in knowing that it's basically impossible to send a piece of hate mail through the Internet without its being touched by a gay program. That's kind of funny." --Eric Allman < 1279479496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HALP < 1279479497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh come on, it's funny. < 1279479538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I've had a bit too much of that sort of bullshit to laugh. < 1279479544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'print 0x01B6;' < 1279479553 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :438 < 1279479573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Poor, poor persecuted Christian. I think you'll find you guys have done most of the persecution in memory. Don't be so sensitive about religion. < 1279479596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, no, it's the "hahah persecuting gays is funny" bit that's un-funny. < 1279479599 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they can change "kill" to "euthanize" like System VI, or else call it "sendsignal" < 1279479601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing to do with religion. < 1279479607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't get the 0x01B6 reference
< 1279479612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's mocking conservative Christian attitudes in the US. < 1279479620 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01B6=0666 < 1279479625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah, yeah... < 1279479627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. Urgh. < 1279479627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh i thought it was absurdism < 1279479628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1279479635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And in the middle of it all, a random feature!" < 1279479640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just too damned close to reality. < 1279479651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought of 666 but didn't recall that was octal < 1279479659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know, we /could/ revert my evacuation plan to a bombing plan. < 1279479663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem solved. < 1279479671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hah. < 1279479677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"daemon" could be changed to "service" like Windows NT services does? < 1279479697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsck could be changed to mkluv. < 1279479719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount will only run if given the --missionary flag < 1279479723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it should be changed to something that makes sense for what it is for < 1279479779 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't like the word "fsck", spell it out in full as "filesystemcheck" perhaps < 1279479881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ckfs. < 1279479886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <3 DOS
< 1279479887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279479913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could mod karmen to not suck. < 1279479926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1279479941 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jesux" might or might not be a joke. I am unsure whether the author knows whether or not it is real. < 1279479952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure by what evidence pikhq considers it a joke. < 1279479972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh pudge.net < 1279479975 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably it is not, since the "This page last updated Wednesday, September 29, 1999, 13:51:07 PDT" and the "Jesux will be here in late December" together suggest it is not real and is just a joke < 1279479976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he works at slashdot < 1279479985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or vaporware. < 1279479999 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, or vaporware. < 1279480001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesux has ascended < 1279480020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It claims to be. < 1279480027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: where < 1279480038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pudge appears to be a republican though < 1279480042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh he's an idiot either way < 1279480054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pudge.net/jesux/jesux.html < 1279480064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's an idiot, *but* it's a joke. < 1279480069 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h169.8.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279480097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a devout christian, what fun < 1279480109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so it's not a "joke", just a "thought experiment" < 1279480113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it is a joke a bit similar to System VI. < 1279480125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh. < 1279480133 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But System VI joke was done before Linux was invented, and one of the System VI features has been implemented in Linux. < 1279480170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so for all i know he probably does hate gays. < 1279480179 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279480180 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-2-199.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1279480189 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christians tend to prefer to hate homosexual people < 1279480206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homophobia isn't a preference, it's in their genes! < 1279480208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love thy neighbor but hate the fags! < 1279480213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can't change it. It's wrong to hate homophobes. < 1279480220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's homophobiphobia. < 1279480234 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279480235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HOW COME THE KARMEN AUTHOR USES ED /AND/ AUTOTOOLS < 1279480238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like ... just ... < 1279480252 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1279480252 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1279480274 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-86.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279480275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How... And... Gah! < 1279480310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: >_< < 1279480623 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the System VI joke? < 1279480649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Nope. < 1279480670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: autotools really isn't as bad as people think it is < 1279480672 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System VI is what originated the "less" command as a replacement for "more". < 1279480691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's quite vomit-inducing though. < 1279480691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can see a clear reason why people would go ed-and-autotools; it would be out of a desire for maximum portability < 1279480692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.baltimoremd.com/technology/newunix.html ic < 1279480701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, the author uses ed because he's a minimalist < 1279480702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of things are much, much more so, mind. < 1279480708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://karmen.sourceforge.net/karmen-0.13-640x480.png < 1279480718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, I would like to *murder* Perl's build system. < 1279480719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell he's an experienced ed user with the advanced command, not obvious to non-ed users < 1279480727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that the personality creating such a minimalist wm is the kind that uses ed < 1279480733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this personality /hates autotools with a fiery passion/ < 1279480793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is that newunix.html < 1279480795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : From now on "rich text" will be more accurately referred to as "exploitive capitalist text". < 1279480798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see no issue with this < 1279480802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^ F/F/ < 1279480835 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know if a typesetting system called "KleeNeX" exists or not < 1279480847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1279480863 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "less" certainly exists. It was originally a joke before they actually added it into GNU/Linux < 1279480871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quick, come up with a term for a lax manager who just smokes weed all day instead of bossing people about < 1279480873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not "incompetent") < 1279480880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then my WM is a "window " :P < 1279480886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"typical"? < 1279480894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no, they mostly are bosy < 1279480896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bossy < 1279480900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"apathetic", possibly < 1279480906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :window apatheticer? < 1279480907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work < 1279480909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs to be an -er < 1279480910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a person < 1279480922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it could be "window anarchy" < 1279480931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: A manager that bosses people about is a shit manager. < 1279480937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the "no" command, I don't see how the program can tell whether or not the "no" is ignored? (Unless the program it sends it to receives no standard input at all) < 1279480938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: naturally. < 1279480946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :managers are mostly useless though. < 1279480954 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it could still be done making alias "no" to mean "yes n" < 1279480955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The point of management is to deal with the bureaucratic bullshit for the sake of those under him, not to add more bureaucratic bullshit. < 1279480960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, most managers suck at this. < 1279480972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ideally of course there'd be no bureaucratic bullshit. < 1279480981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'd wager most companies would do much better without a manager. < 1279480984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays < 1279480998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but sufficiently large organisations need bureaucracy to function... < 1279481009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But even so. < 1279481016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only realistic way to pare it down is to make the organisation small. < 1279481040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's much like programs; the larger it is, the more work goes into just making the pieces fit together. < 1279481048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And large programs suck. < 1279481052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279481077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore... :-) < 1279481087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1279481106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UNIX philosophy: Down with vertical integration! < 1279481168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's All Right with horizontal < 1279481222 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5c1891d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.24.145.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279481247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*cough*) < 1279481255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cough? < 1279481338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: alise is being nastily groanless < 1279481354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1279481357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan < 1279481393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Groan goes to w in your typos? < 1279481407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly. < 1279481436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone name my wm < 1279481446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name must be as awesome as the wm :P < 1279481449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wrote a wn? < 1279481453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/n/m/ < 1279481473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would class that as "torture", myself. < 1279481476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to. (This will not be a difficult task, as it will have almost nothing). < 1279481480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nothing.) < 1279481507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, call it ' ', then. < 1279481514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, it will give windows title bars. These title bars will have minimise, maximise and close buttons. You can click and drag a title bar to move the window. You can also move a window by alt+dragging on it. You can resize a window using the border. < 1279481516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it. < 1279481526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Maybe/ a menu launcher/switcher type dealy. < 1279481547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easeowm < 1279481562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1279481611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESOWM mangled a bit. < 1279481624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it < 1279481702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mangled all right < 1279481708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is it actually < 1279481741 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So confused :( < 1279481753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an agram < 1279481766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hm? < 1279481783 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: By EgoBot not functioning. < 1279481786 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I'd fixed it. < 1279481787 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1279481814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 42 < 1279481814 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execve failed: OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied < 1279481831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print 42; < 1279481832 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execve failed: OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied < 1279481837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1279481838 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1279481840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Convince me not to create χ Windows. < 1279481846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1279481846 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1279481858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes boo! < 1279481858 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execve failed: OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied < 1279481880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1279481887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: By the way... aewm has nice code. < 1279481894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like really nice. < 1279481901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mmm. < 1279481907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest you read it. < 1279481916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :owmnowmnowm < 1279481927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Seriously. Even the GTK bits. < 1279481985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* X, in its perpetual helpfulness, always does native borders NorthWest < 1279481985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * style. This, as usual, ruins everything. So we compensate. */ < 1279481985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : switch (GRAV(c)) { < 1279481985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case NorthWestGravity: < 1279481985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1279481991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah, gravity. < 1279482042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Design of Arbitrary Greek Letter Windows: < 1279482058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A client asks the server, "what modes do you support?". < 1279482068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server replies, possibly including a wildcard, i.e. "whatever you want". < 1279482070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a grave matter < 1279482072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program chooses one, and tells the server. < 1279482078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server says, "Here you go:

". < 1279482085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This address is graphics memory. < 1279482106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A window manager works by overriding the server for client programs, and providing an address managed by itself, which it blits to the real graphics memory. < 1279482115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar with mouse and keyboard and stuff. < 1279482118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This also lets you nest WMs. < 1279482124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Find a single design flaw. I dare you. < 1279482125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wow. < 1279482174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Insufficient suck. < 1279482197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR -- INSUFFICIENT SUCK. GIVING UP. < 1279482206 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember I once owed someone $666.00 but they didn't like 666 so they said I can pay $665.00 instead. < 1279482207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically stole the design from Plan 9 and Y Windows, but who cares? < 1279482212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ha. < 1279482220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, how did you get to owing someone that much? < 1279482245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in return for their soul, clearly < 1279482251 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Don't worry about how. Some things are just more expensive than other things. < 1279482303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fascinating. aewm is readable. < 1279482328 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also heard some people that when they go to the store, and the total is $6.66 they will purchase one more item so that the total is not $6.66 anymore! < 1279482330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots and lots of boilerplate, but that's just GUI code for you. < 1279482331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 doesn't want us to find out about his heroin dealing operation < 1279482391 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't deal with heroin. This amount had something to do with government rates, which have now increased. The government is always incompetent. < 1279482425 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I simply had to pay a service charge to someone. < 1279482436 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Service FOR SATAN. < 1279482441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why the prices for that service are regulated by government, but apparently it is. < 1279482451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, why would the government legislate prostitution? < 1279482456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279482459 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that is no longer the price. < 1279482470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They increased the price now. < 1279482477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has nothing to do with prostitution. < 1279482485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, another theory out the window < 1279482517 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279482535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why is reparenting so hard. < 1279482545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Because fuck you. < 1279482557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not ready for that kind of commitment yet. < 1279482630 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need arrows at the end of the scroll-bars. Xaw doesn't have them. < 1279482645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: we don't need visible scrollbars except when scrolling generally < 1279482667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean non-reparenting managers are so easy to write. < 1279482671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have NO IDEA how to reparent. < 1279482718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you repare, or you do n't < 1279482768 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which kind of make rules does CSPIDER need to have built-in? Currently it has: _C_FILE _CTIME _CWD _TEX_FILE _WEB_FILE (all of the predefined rules, as well as all rules that are used automatically, should have their variable names starting with underscore and all uppercase) < 1279482799 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any more that might be important? < 1279482825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe you could tell us what cspider does first. < 1279482853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage of the works is permitted provided that this instrument is retained with the works, so that any entity that uses the works is notified of this instrument. < 1279482853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCLAIMER: THE WORKS ARE WITHOUT WARRANTY. < 1279482855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's a simple license. < 1279482860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSI certified, too. < 1279482894 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a replacement for makefiles. So that makefiles and autoconf and such things no longer needed. It can call CTANGLE and CWEAVE automatically, as well as other programs. It reads any web file, so metamacros can still be used. < 1279482958 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can have command-line arguments such as +T tells it to generate C codes only but do not compile or print, +W tells it to generate printouts only but no compile C codes, +C means generate C codes and compile but no printout, +F meands just display the list of things it would do but don't actually do anything (just fake it). < 1279482958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly my modified version of aewm should be called œwm. < 1279482999 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK call it that. It isn't ASCII though. So if someone is writing in ASCII they will need to type it using ASCII letters < 1279483032 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1279483060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you use virtual desktops? < 1279483066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'll have it oewm in the filenames. < 1279483120 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, that will work < 1279483132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have it as oewm < 1279483195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Barely. < 1279483224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't use them and I don't understand people who use them. :P < 1279483245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's being used so that bringing up my web browser is a two-key combo. :P < 1279483259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use them when I need to completely context-switch < 1279483273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can bring up my browser by clicking anywhere on my screen. Statistically, I have probability 1 of hitting a browser. < 1279483274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279483275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. doing work on desktop 1, hibernating to keep it open, want to do something entirely different on desktop 2 < 1279483300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I tend to leave a music player minimized on desktop 2 rather than leaving it cluttering desktop 1 < 1279483304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What, do you not run other programs? < 1279483306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION removes all virtual desktop support from oewm.
< 1279483311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I do, but I also run an awful lot of browsers. < 1279483319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1279483326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need support for the Shape extension? < 1279483327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a single one. < 1279483337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome, yak.st is available. < 1279483391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is it considered Evil to remove license headers from a fork of a program, as long as you keep the LICENSE? < 1279483395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate license headers with a passion. < 1279483400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe people would think it's rude. < 1279483426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: License headers are there so you can have per-file copyright info. < 1279483430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is *most* relevant in a fork. < 1279483435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're also a legal requirement of most licenses < 1279483443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now /that/ is absolutely false and FUD < 1279483445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see some of the license headers in jettyplay < 1279483448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nope < 1279483453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even BSD requires you keep them < 1279483455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think it is required to keep them there on already existing source files. In any new source files you make you can omit it as long as it is still clear that they follow the same license < 1279483462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it requires licenses are kept with the software < 1279483464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. LICENSE file. < 1279483468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it requires that you don't delete copyright notices < 1279483479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ridiculous that you accuse something like that of being FUD... < 1279483481 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file should be called COPYING if the license is the GNU GPL. < 1279483508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, can I change: < 1279483512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# aewm - Copyright 1998-2007 Decklin Foster . < 1279483512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to < 1279483517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Originally from aewm - Copyright 1998-2007 Decklin Foster . < 1279483518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# oewm - Copyright 2010 Elliott Hird. < 1279483518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1279483520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i misinterpreted you < 1279483529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant licenses required inserting those headers < 1279483530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's fine, and the sort of thing I normally do < 1279483535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, don't require inserting < 1279483539 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am making also a _PLATFORM rule to tell it which platform of the computer the compiler is being running on. It uses #ifdef for that stuff. What are some of the macros that are defined for different kind of systems? < 1279483539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1279483540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just preserving existing ones < 1279483541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how i interpreted < 1279483545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/ it/ < 1279483555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, people are insisting on watching bad TV in this room, I'm going home < 1279483560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279483579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No you can't do that you have to put the "# Originally from" on a separate line and the "# aewm"... on the next line < 1279483591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does -Os -g work? < 1279483595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: now here I think you are wrong. < 1279483601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i retained the notice of copyright < 1279483643 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you put it on the same line you can be accused of writing things for wrong reason < 1279483647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1279483653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure what you're saying has no legal merit. < 1279483683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As am I. < 1279483692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a lawyer, but I have read US copyright law. < 1279483700 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "# aewm"... line still has to be somewhere near the top of the file (as in, above most or all of the program codes). < 1279483739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1279483749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I /can/ prepend "Originally", of that I am almost sure. < 1279483774 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then put a colon after "Originally from" to make it more clear < 1279483789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1279483795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What legal weight does that carry? < 1279483817 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nothing, but you have to be careful < 1279483836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: He's talking out of his anus. < 1279483842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1279483865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm, what's the sed for "replace ae with oe unless it's /* ae"? Or do I need a fancy-shmancy regexp system with (?!...)? < 1279483874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's some "nothing to see here, move along" command in sed, but I'm not sure what it is. < 1279483907 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What C preprocessor macros for other platforms, other than __CYGWIN__ and _WIN32 are? < 1279483940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: macintosh for classical Mac OS < 1279483968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fœderal < 1279483971 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__linux__ < 1279483985 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"macintosh" and "__linux__" all in lowercase? < 1279484015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use platform macros that aren't reserved < 1279484019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like macintosh < 1279484030 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you just support the idiots behind them < 1279484032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in lowercase yes < 1279484036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: waah waah < 1279484057 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? I am just using #ifdef only < 1279484061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it for Mac OS X? < 1279484084 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but "macintosh" is not a reserved identifier. By checking for it, you legitimize the decision to adopt it as a macro < 1279484101 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should not be done, because no compiler should predefine a non-reserved identifier < 1279484135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not sure < 1279484142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: shaddap < 1279484147 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all platform macros should start with __ and all uppercase, but since that isn't the case, we have to do with the way it is < 1279484181 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__linux__ is fine < 1279484184 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is _WIN32 < 1279484187 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both reserved < 1279484213 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they are reserved words in C < 1279484219 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are < 1279484230 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1279484259 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All identifiers that begin with an underscore and either an uppercase letter or another underscore are always reserved for any use." < 1279484294 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see section 3.7.3 now. < 1279484294 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I misinterpreted, I thought you meant that "__linux__" is a standard macro < 1279484324 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think they aren't reserved words in C, though. It just means that you should not expect that you can make functions and variables with those names < 1279484338 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because doing so, won't work. < 1279484367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're also reserved as macros < 1279484374 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"macintosh", however, is not < 1279484384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any complier that compiles with it predefined is not compliant < 1279484412 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I agree with that. < 1279484448 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since my program doesn't use the word "macintosh" in any other way, using it with #ifdef for this purpose should be safe < 1279484457 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1279484465 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it is used nowhere else other than #ifdef < 1279484466 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're then legitimizing the compiler's non-compliance! < 1279484473 0 :LM7!~LM7@c-24-0-222-66.hsd1.de.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279484493 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I can add a comment (or documentation text) to the program explaining that it shouldn't be done but this is the way it has to be done anyways in this case < 1279484550 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently the @ section contains no documentation text or comments, but I might add a documentation text to explain about this non-compliance < 1279484565 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@< ? < 1279484594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@< begins a named section, which can then be transcluded into other sections. < 1279484607 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Usually only once, but it can be done multiple times if you might need to in some cases) < 1279484662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of like bigger macros, but it can mave multiple lines without needed \ at the end, and you can define a named section multiple times, in which case it will use all of the definitions in order when transcluding into another section. < 1279484699 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now hopefully you can understand? < 1279484750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyone know what the command in sed is for "go to next line? < 1279484752 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C? < 1279484760 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: In CWEB. < 1279484768 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1279484771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :belck < 1279484779 0 :Wamanuz!~wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279484784 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enhanced CWEB also adds a few extra capabilities of this mechanism as well that the standard CWEB doesn't have. < 1279484844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, is there seriously no way to do this with sed? < 1279484857 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Enhanced CWEB: @$ starts a macro parameter for the next macro being transcluded (printed as a music natural sign), @3 to include the parameter value (printed as uppercase omega), and @4 to include the number of times this macro has been previously used (printed as uppercase delta). < 1279484865 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think there is a "go to next line" command in sed < 1279484871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but i can't find it < 1279484873 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the GNU sed documentation < 1279484883 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is explained in there < 1279484888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as far as i can se < 1279484889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*see < 1279484909 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is explained in the info page. The man page doesn't explain it < 1279484914 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1279484923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? What command? < 1279484930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see it. < 1279484977 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1279485080 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1279485107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi relet < 1279485121 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there < 1279485193 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other platform C preprocessor macros are there other than __CYGWIN__ __linux__ macintosh _WIN32 ? < 1279485207 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there one for Mac OS X? What is it for FreeBSD? < 1279485273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think OS X defines both __APPLE__ and __MACH__. < 1279485276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about BSD. < 1279485336 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the best way to test for OS X? What does __APPLE__ and __MACH__ supposed to mean individually? < 1279485361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if defined(__APPLE__) && defined(__MACH__)? (Just a guess.) < 1279485393 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do that, but if there is something that __APPLE__ and __MACH__ are supposed to mean individually I can check? < 1279485402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the compiler docs imo < 1279485408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: __APPLE__ means it's OS X, __MACH__ means it's just something running on Mach. < 1279485416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is defined by many, many things. < 1279485426 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Is just checking __APPLE__ good enough? < 1279485427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mach was a popular microkernel for a while, you see. < 1279485434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1279485460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__APPLE__ is defined on pre-X Mac OS versions too, I believe. < 1279485461 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not care much about the kernel as long as the system works in the same way, that stuff can be compiled on it in the same way. < 1279485470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not that you're very likely to run across any.) < 1279485479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, __MACH__ is not very relevant. < 1279485544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do need both if you want to avoid matching pre-X Mac OS. I think. I don't have a MPW installation I could check what it defines. < 1279485567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to test for os x: < 1279485571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-X Mac OS is a pain to support anyways. < 1279485574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if defined(__APPLE__) && !defined(macintosh) < 1279485583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x may not always be basde on mach after all < 1279485586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it will always be apple :P < 1279485588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*based < 1279485625 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe programs compiled for Mac OS X use the GNU C compiler. I think GNU C compiler is probably included with Mac OS X. Although you need the Xcode program to write any proper software for Mac OS X that isn't a standard UNIX software < 1279485643 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so is your way the best way? Probably it is better < 1279485695 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently I have Cygwin, Linux, Macintosh classic, Mac OS X, Win32. < 1279485702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have FreeBSD listed in there yet. < 1279485784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The headers seem to get __FreeBSD__ defined. < 1279485797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/porters-handbook/porting-versions.html anyhow. < 1279485808 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any other systems that should be included in this list? < 1279485812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"__FreeBSD__ is defined in all versions of FreeBSD." < 1279485860 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1279485947 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any other rule variables that should be predefined? So far I have: _C_FILE _CTIME _CWD _PLATFORM _TEX_FILE _WEB_FILE < 1279486025 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_WEB_FILE is mostly useful for if you need the file to point to itself, in case it is a program consisting of a single file, that you can compile with no other modules (other than possibly system libraries) < 1279486077 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_CTIME just specifies the date/time of compiling. < 1279486117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Should I remove virtual desktops from my amazing WM, do you think, or leave them for the sad, confuse dpeople who use them? < 1279486117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can add a option +A to update all files even if it is already up to date < 1279486195 0 :LM7!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Courage is your greatest present need. < 1279486241 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe & # > prefix to tell it processing certain rules only in certain modes: & for tangle, # for weave, > for compile < 1279486270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You should add all features. < 1279486282 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rules can have other prefixes as well: + only if a certain rule variable is defined, - if it is not already defined < 1279486345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Um. No. :P < 1279486369 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then some rule variables starting with _ and uppercase, but not predefined. These are used by CSPIDER to read and do stuff with it, such as what C compiler to use and what directory the CTANGLE and CWEAVE are in, and so on. They can be defined in a system include file _make.wi < 1279486412 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this good? < 1279486423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: On a scale of 1 to 100, how incorrect is Œxcellent? < 1279486430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oewm -- An Œxcellent Window Manager" < 1279486438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 200. < 1279486444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :D < 1279486448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Good; I'll use it. < 1279486451 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I don't think it is a real word. But you are not required to use real words if you prefer to make up words < 1279486454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheheh. < 1279486524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Window managers shouldn't put their config files in /etc/X11/, should they? < 1279486654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nein. < 1279486674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do that you shall be reassigned to duty in Siberia, comrade! < 1279486675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad aewm. Bad. < 1279486691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, things I need to do: Add more butans. Make alt+drag work. Add window borders. < 1279487293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and make it click-to-focus. < 1279487348 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279487358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, this is a pain. < 1279487365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Give me the motivation to just Write My Own. < 1279487411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Motivation injection, AWAY < 1279487424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I meant messages of support. < 1279487660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call it flwm but that's taken. < 1279487725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You should be paid to just rewrite all of everything. < 1279487727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279487766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you hiring? < 1279487766 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279487800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No. < 1279487800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wm upside down is mw < 1279487804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mindow wanager < 1279487817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronounced "mu", like micro < 1279487823 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279487848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miupom wauagel < 1279487860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except more upside-down. < 1279488097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is xfontsel so useless? < 1279488127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because. < 1279488174 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn gcc < 1279488192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i concur < 1279488268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh what is that fixed bitmap font called < 1279488329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the one i mean < 1279488329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1279488331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing < 1279488340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://karmen.sourceforge.net/karmen-0.13-640x480.png < 1279488342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one in here < 1279488345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the menu and title bars < 1279488515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq? do you know? < 1279488526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1279488529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1279488532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that font everyone uses :P < 1279488821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a reason other than windows that nobody uses .c++? < 1279488870 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know. I think .cpp is used instead. Although sometimes .cxx is used but .cpp is supposed to be the standard today, I think. < 1279488990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.cc is quite common too... < 1279489047 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/HeNQ < 1279489273 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: a disinclination to use symbols in filenames? < 1279489282 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know i'd choose letters over most symbols < 1279489290 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excepting maybe _ and - < 1279489398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.-_- < 1279489416 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279489479 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen programs which use two ^ signs with a section sign in between, as the extension for its files. < 1279489499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :section? < 1279489510 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as with a paragraph sign in between, and one with a ampersand in between. < 1279489515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't .C used occasionally [as distinct from .c] < 1279489525 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a section sign < 1279489533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's the S thing < 1279489534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the circle < 1279489536 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i suppose there's no accounting for some people's taste < 1279489538 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279489540 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sometimes. But in my opinion it should not be used < 1279489556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: §? i thought _that_ was paragraph < 1279489577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, maybe < 1279489582 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No that is a section sign < 1279489591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has forever associated that symbol with SimCity
< 1279489592 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paragraph is the backwards P with two lines < 1279489603 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� < 1279489608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1279489614 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%A7 < 1279489620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on my keyboard < 1279489620 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? It is section sign. < 1279489631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the simolean sign! < 1279489669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WHY DO YOU HAVE TO WRITE "LongThing *foo = new LongThing(...)" < 1279489675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY NOT "LongThing *foo = new(...)". < 1279489697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to wiki, "Simoleon". Although I was caught vaguely off-guard by that being notable < 1279489741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah i see. it's called paragraf in norwegian, and apparently swedish http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraftecken (no norwegian wp page) < 1279489742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: LongThing *foo = new OtherLongThing(...) < 1279489758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That can still be supported but DAMMIT. < 1279489758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you hate their solution to polymorphism? < 1279489767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279489769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I really do. < 1279489777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var foo = new LongThing(...); < 1279489781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks
< 1279489781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't it be "foo = new LongThing(...)"? < 1279489833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * "none" - This is the default look-n-feel which resembles old Windows (95/98/Me/NT/2000) and old GTK/KDE < 1279489833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * "plastic" - This scheme is inspired by the Aqua user interface on Mac OS X < 1279489833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * "gtk+" - This scheme is inspired by the Red Hat Bluecurve theme < 1279489837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: an answer < 1279489848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think C++0x might be able to do that < 1279489858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1279489865 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't use C++ or C++0x, so I don't quite know < 1279489923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: confusing declaration and assignment is bad for scoping < 1279490429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Assignment? Assignment? < 1279490438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this "assignment"? < 1279490467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: object oriented language usually have that < 1279490473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: LIES < 1279490475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*languages < 1279490477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES AND DECEIT < 1279491097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1279491201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tepid or ajar? < 1279491218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iain B. Findleton has created a Tcl binding to the Fltk widget set, which is similar in nature to Tk, but is not directly Tk. He advertises, "An Fltk script is about 20 percent [!] the size of a Tk script for the same kind of functionality." < 1279491222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tempting... very tempting. < 1279491244 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLTK is somewhere between terrible and awesome. < 1279491252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So is everything XD < 1279491255 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where exactly varies on a minute-to-minute basis. < 1279491262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FLTK is definitely awesome apart from it being C++. < 1279491270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was something other than C++, it would be awesome. < 1279491278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not with the default scheme, mind. < 1279491284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the "GTK+" scheme makes it look good. < 1279491384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah < 1279491402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember bluecurve. Hated it. < 1279491410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But my screenshot is nicer than bluecurve. < 1279491417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact it's nothing like BlueCurve. < 1279491419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, barely < 1279491424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1279491455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, it's got a Tk like binding but simpler? Awesome. < 1279491458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact all FLTK needs is to be written in C and I'd use it for everything :P < 1279491461 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1176440753.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1279491465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://wiki.tcl.tk/1826 < 1279491467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tk in Tcl, BTW, is like the best GUI API ever. < 1279491482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lacks bullshit! It completely lacks it! < 1279491487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitrot, though. Last release 107 days ago. < 1279491492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Except for the actual interfaces produced. < 1279491496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which have great amounts of bullshit. < 1279491499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "pack" is bullshit. < 1279491507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Thus why I'm specifying the *API*. < 1279491513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pack is just one of the layout managers. < 1279491531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also grid and place. < 1279491534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And apart from Ttk, which requires STUPIDLY PREFIXING EVERYTHING whereas it should just /be in place of the old widgets/. < 1279491546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, that's fucking retarded. < 1279491573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do note that Tk should really be separate from Tcl, though. < 1279491582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I get the historical reasons, but bindings suck because they have to run Tcl and shit. < 1279491592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nobody really likes Tcl any more. pikhq: do you even like Tcl any more? < 1279491600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still do like Tcl. < 1279491606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, but you're crazy. < 1279491628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of the more flexible languages when it comes to metaprogramming. < 1279491632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the game of "one datatype to rule them all", strings come not just last, but in infinitieth place. < 1279491657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of things Tcl sucks at, though. < 1279491662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much of a general-purpose language. < 1279491718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I'm concerned Tcl is just like Scheme except it rapes lexical scope with hideous abominations like uplevel and doesn't have a proper data type :P < 1279491737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279491762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could fix it all and still count as Tcl. :P < 1279491775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh, wait. The string rewriting stuff is the *definition* of Tcl. < 1279491779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can fix the scope though. < 1279491797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but *Scheme is that definition of Tcl applied to a data structure that actually makes sense*. < 1279491827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, Scheme relies on macros and special forms to do the {} "quoting", but you could easily just pass it all as (quote ...). < 1279491867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I pay you to write a WM that doesn't suck? < 1279491900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[We spent the first hour gabbing about all sorts of political and organizational issues of a fairly boring and mundane nature. Partway through, Jon Orwant comes in, and stands there for a few minutes listening, and then he very calmly walks over to the coffee service table in the corner, and there were about 20 of us in the room, and he picks up a coffee mug and throws it against the other wall and he keeps throwing coffee mugs against the other wall, and h < 1279491900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e says "we are fucked unless we can come up with something that will excite the community, because everyone's getting bored and going off and doing other things".]] < 1279491928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[And he was right. His motivation was, perhaps, to make bigger Perl conferences, or he likes Perl doing well, or something like that. But in actual fact he was right, so that sort of galvanized the meeting. He said "I don't care what you do, but you gotta do something big." And then he went away. < 1279491928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't misunderstand me. This was the most perfectly planned tantrum you have ever seen. If any of you know Jon, he likes control. This was a perfectly controlled tantrum. It was amazing to see. I was thinking, "should I get up and throw mugs too?"]] < 1279492021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.axis-of-aevil.net/archives/img/2003_08/p6_cover.jpg best animal ever < 1279492178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Everything about Perl 6 has been a soap opera, from mugs being thrown in meetings, to the Pugs lead developer getting a gender change and then disappearing, to Rakudo Star being hyped endlessly well before it has been released." < 1279492180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be made < 1279492194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pearl Avenue Six < 1279492455 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahawesome. < 1279492463 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the ... mystery animal. < 1279492505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a... < 1279492516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deersnakecamelbutterflychameleonchicken. < 1279492537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ceerflymelekenake. < 1279492824 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Where is that quote from? < 1279492835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/40451 < 1279492841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the soap opera one? < 1279492850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, Jon Orwant is now my hero :P < 1279492854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when in doubt, throw cups at wall < 1279492932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The soap opera one. < 1279492958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ping < 1279492967 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1279492983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: go into nutrition smartass mode plz http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/humanfood/ :-D < 1279492995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the rest of the comment was just boring "perl is irrelevant blah" shit < 1279492999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just from reddit < 1279493004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1279493008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audrey tang really did change gender though < 1279493025 0 :Madk!~Madk@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279493028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perl 6 would make a hilariously bad soap opera < 1279493035 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1279493042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Madk < 1279493056 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an esoteric programming language, and I'd like some feedback if that's ok < 1279493083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1279493088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put it on the wiki -- http://esolangs.org < 1279493098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry if you don't think it's very good, the wiki is basically a repository of crap anyway :) < 1279493103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(put it on after telling us, of course) < 1279493103 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information is at this forum post: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=13945.0 < 1279493105 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last post < 1279493115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with tigsource that generates so many esolangs? < 1279493116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ... two < 1279493142 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's based a lot on 6052 assembly. < 1279493153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Out of curiosity, what are you using/ what method are you using that makes them so easy to make?" ;; heh < 1279493157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I shot interpreter. < 1279493166 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last post on the page < 1279493196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that zip, does it contain source code or just a binary? < 1279493212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost nobody here runs windows, so it should probably be the former < 1279493226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed just binary < 1279493235 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ugh. "Single food that has everything you need" is way difficult. And worse yet, it varies a bit from person to person. < 1279493237 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll include the source shortly < 1279493242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: indeed < 1279493255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: how soon's shortly? we can't comment on it until you do :) < 1279493276 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In about 30 seconds :P < 1279493286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAY TOO LONG < 1279493310 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, download it from the same link < 1279493311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: some of the people in the comments are suggesting monkey feed :-P < 1279493320 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's now a "source" folder. < 1279493351 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's written in BlitzMax - there's a free compiler demo, but it costs $80. < 1279493359 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the full compiler, I mean < 1279493362 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :demo is free :P < 1279493380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source isn't there for me < 1279493387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. i was assuming C < 1279493409 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a source folder in the download < 1279493411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpectedly, it seems to have a linux version. < 1279493414 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And it also depends on amount of excercise you are getting. If you are doing high excercise, you need loads of energy but (relative to energy) less other nutrients. But if you are doing low excercise, sure you could just use UCPs to deal with the excess energy, but that's not exactly healthy to do a lot, and worse yet, the food needs to be more nutrious w.r.t. energy content. < 1279493415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: indeed; there isn't < 1279493429 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah, it's got mac, win, and linux < 1279493436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: i'm just absorbing all this knowledge < 1279493449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: http://www.angryman.ca/monkey.html comments on this? < 1279493452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee, another thing that's broken is the browser's ability to tell FoxIt to load a PDF < 1279493471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Monkey-like Attributes: considerable body hair" :-) < 1279493476 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just downloaded it myself and there's the source right there. < 1279493486 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from http://floatation.webs.com/M-Code.zip right? < 1279493522 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps just try again? Maybe the file hadn't updated by the time you hit the link. < 1279493524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mood: a touch manic < 1279493525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poop: still regular, still smelly < 1279493525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monkey-like Attributes: moderate desire to fling poop < 1279493542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: there it is. < 1279493555 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1279493575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SuperStrict". Makes me wonder what plain "Strict" is. < 1279493604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: So basically it's a mini assembly with symbols for command names, yeah? < 1279493612 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of, yeah < 1279493612 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, the ranges for nutrients are so wide that one could assume low excercise (just some extra nutrients in high-energy case). < 1279493622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Poop: problematic" < 1279493646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: Except with ... strings, inexplicably. < 1279493669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it has file support. Talk about some high-powered assembly. < 1279493693 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, low soluble fiber and low MCTs tend to do nasty things to ones digestion. < 1279493697 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Nomral means you don't have to declare variables before usage. They default to 0, or in the case of strings, "". Strict forces you to declare your variables, but not their type, which is detected by the compiler automatically. SuperStrict forces you to also specify int, byte, short, string, an object class, etc. < 1279493761 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: also, string support isn't very robust. It's hardly any more than BrainF*ck's support. < 1279493830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: Brainfuck has no string support. < 1279493855 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII < 1279493859 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :console i/o < 1279493875 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the extent of M-Code, except you can define the two strings in memory pre-runtime < 1279493888 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using plain text < 1279493888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1279493899 0 :tombom__!tombom@82.14.57.61 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279493913 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hello world example shows it well < 1279493930 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the symbols H, e, l, etc. simply represent those ASCII codes. < 1279493944 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why [65] and A are interchangable < 1279494005 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only discernment between command and argument is position. < 1279494041 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: About that experiment, it seems that the food is deficent in something... I think it is designed for digestive system far beyond human one... < 1279494071 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ilari: what exactly are you talking about? :P < 1279494076 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1279494088 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: http://www.angryman.ca/monkey.html < 1279494109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari is our resident person who knows everything about nutrition that nutritionists don't. < 1279494116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's his official title. < 1279494130 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hey, I'm not a biochemist. < 1279494147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but we don't have a biochemist. < 1279494149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we'll settle for you. < 1279494219 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it comes to real hard questions, like: "What in diet causes all the 'diseases of civilization'", I really do not know. < 1279494286 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.. I suppose I'll be putting M-Code on the wiki? < 1279494326 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: the extra energy to run the human brain (compared to other primates) is taken from digestive system. Human digestive system is quite bad. < 1279494346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: Sure. < 1279494370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Is it necessarily true that diet causes all disease? One issue with it being true is that it's plainly false. < 1279494394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest we implant a monkey digestive system into a human. :-) < 1279494481 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "Diseases of civilization" are quite specific group of diseases (through these appear to include previously unknown diseases). And these diseases appear to be quite strongly linked to diet (what exactly in it is not known). < 1279494547 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's a lot of diseases that are not "diseases of civilization". < 1279494577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Ah, I didn't know that name for it. < 1279494579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Civilization itself has only really changed our levels of physical activity, our exposure to toxic chemicals, and our diet... < 1279494595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, really, "diseases of civilization" could only possibly come from those. < 1279494624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: So, just out of curiosity, what's your basic recommendations for diet from what you know? < 1279494744 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my recomendations (based on my current knowledge): avoid grains, avoid soft fats avoid sugar. < 1279494787 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those tend to be the strongest suspects. < 1279494798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...avoid grains? < 1279494802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And prefer? (as in opposite to avoid) < 1279494809 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1279494815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that for everyone, or just overweight people? < 1279494825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: presumably everyone < 1279494845 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, overweight people have additional considerations. < 1279494853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is underweight
< 1279494880 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, don't know ways to increase body fat that aren't dangerous... < 1279494911 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, and avoid soy too. < 1279494915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1279494932 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1279494935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: So are there any specific foods to prefer? I'd assume there must be, since just eating random stuff that aren't the things to avoid seems very stupid. < 1279494938 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just eat < 1279494951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION eats rubber
< 1279494954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Okay. < 1279494960 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rubber what? < 1279494962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to drink a lot of Ensure when I was young. It was practically my lunch every day < 1279494963 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :condoms? :D < 1279494971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ensure uses soy < 1279494971 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some people that when presented with "fattening" foods don't get fat, they get type 2 diabetes. < 1279494997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari will not reveal the secret of what to eat! < 1279495005 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are ways to make soy and grains edible... < 1279495008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with grains? < 1279495029 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't Ensure that vanilla flavd powder? < 1279495051 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1279495061 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Toxins and antinutrients. And besides, they aren't that good in minerals and vitamins. < 1279495089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: no, ensure is a "nutritionally balanced drink" < 1279495095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was forced to go on it recently) < 1279495099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a box of pasta a day isn't healthy? < 1279495102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tastes disgusting and probably isn't all that well-balanced. < 1279495105 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1279495115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I loved the taste, iirc < 1279495128 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck, replacement for food < 1279495131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it tastes better when you're doing it voluntarily. < 1279495135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: not everyone enjoys food. < 1279495148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you're probably killing yourself with what you eat (at least based on my impression of your personality) < 1279495150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1279495152 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.78.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279495153 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but food is tasty, I love to eat < 1279495153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1279495158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1279495160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everyone does. < 1279495164 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1279495165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're probably not eating very well, either < 1279495166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would love for there to be a drink that he could drink a certain number of times a day and not need to eat anything else
< 1279495197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like eating some things, but I'd be fine with being kept healthy and not feeling hungry, then having eating be a thing I do for pleasure. < 1279495214 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I like mediterranean cuisine < 1279495214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think I should start taking vitamins. I know the statement that people who eat properly don't need vitamin suppliments, but I don't think I eat properly < 1279495219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, agreed < 1279495229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: multivitamins are harmful < 1279495238 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Reminds me of one story one doctor told: Patient came to him and thought he (the patient) was underweight and wanted to gain weight. Well, the doctor prescribed drink that had 100g of fat per drink, one drink per day. Well, turns out the plan didn't work (but didn't go horribly wrong)... < 1279495240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not harmful, useless. < 1279495241 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so olives, tomatoes, white cheese, white bread, pasta, seafood, pork < 1279495249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore do not take multivitamins. < 1279495267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless period, or useless for people who eat properly? < 1279495279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless. < 1279495285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# < 1279495285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the multiple large studies cited in “Vitamin Pills: A False Hope?”; note that at least 3 studies showed increased disease & mortality rates associated with multivitamin usage, and Wikipedia mentions a few downbeat reports & commissions.↩]] < 1279495286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/health/17well.html?_r=1 < 1279495291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multivitamin#Evidence_against < 1279495312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: tl;dr useless, can be harmful. Don't bother. < 1279495323 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why didn't that plan work: Because fat isn't fattening. < 1279495330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: and the doctor didn't know this? < 1279495344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: he should suffer severe repercussions... < 1279495378 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, he asked some biochemist afterwards why that didn't work. The biochemist was baffled too. < 1279495389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, the report noted that multivitamins have beneficial effects in people with poor nutritional status..." < 1279495400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess I should read citations for stuff like this < 1279495407 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at the IOCCC makefiles. It includes a rule "love" that writes "not war?" on the screen < 1279495431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what's self-contradictory about the Free World License? < 1279495447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why is it that whenever you ask a question, you have one answer in mind and are only looking for affirmation of this answer, while ignoring contrary evidence? < 1279495450 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, as said, the experiment didn't apparently do anything good nor anything bad. < 1279495467 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yep, my mom eats fat things and avoids carbohydrates and she's thin < 1279495494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yeah, but that kind of incompetence < 1279495504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows it's carbs that causes fat. < 1279495521 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: A few things are. But it contains various stupid things that won't work very well (regardless of whether or not the definition of "Free Platform" is relaxed or not) < 1279495544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The license is incompatible with itself. < 1279495570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Linda is 31 years old, single, outspoken and very bright. She majored in philosophy. As a student, she was deeply concerned with issues of discrimination and social justice, and also participated in antinuclear demonstrations. < 1279495570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What is the probability that Linda is: < 1279495570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (a) a bank teller < 1279495570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (b) a bank teller and active in the feminist movement]] < 1279495584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer. (Do not say why you chose an answer in case you bias other people.) < 1279495591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it before < 1279495609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then don't answer. < 1279495624 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the answer. < 1279495633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But what do you think the answer is? < 1279495644 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know! I will just guess: < 1279495645 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 < 1279495656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 isn't a valid probability and there are two questions. < 1279495658 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have to make a wild guess because I don't know how to figure out the answer < 1279495660 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the question should ask if one is liklier than the other < 1279495663 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the fact that human digestive system is crap doesn't mean one can't do well with wide variety of diets. Well, at least if one gets all the needed energy, amino acids and other micronutrients and doesn't eat a lot of stuff that is 1) too hard to digest or 2) Messes with metabolism. < 1279495680 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK fine the answer is "c" < 1279495687 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course that is not a valid answer either) < 1279495687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the whole point is your intuition; you don't have to say e.g. "0.75" < 1279495702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just things like ">50%" "a bit more than the other one" "a bit less" < 1279495737 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoopiedoo http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/M-code < 1279495745 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are not the kind of things I know about < 1279495750 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if P_a = 0.1 then even if P_feminist = 0.99, it comes out that P_b < 0.1 < 1279495754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I really have no way to even guess an answer < 1279495769 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Yes that is < 1279495777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: remember when I said "don't give reasoning"? < 1279495784 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1279495789 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1279495792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because explaining it stops me measuring how many people here get it wrong :P < 1279495800 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;| < 1279495802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many many people get it wrong IRL, but the type here is more intelligent, so... < 1279495803 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hunter-Gatherer diets vary from almost zero-carbohydrate and super-high-fat diets to low-fat diets. < 1279495813 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I saw that too, that P_b <= P_a < 1279495823 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't tell me what the actual numbers are < 1279495823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A lot of people IRL say P_b > P_a. < 1279495831 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most likely P_b < P_a < 1279495833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they think "oh, sounds feministy from the description; probably b then" < 1279495835 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strictly less < 1279495847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Ooh... I have an awesome idea... you know the miracle fruit? < 1279495850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, is a box of pasta + some parmesan cheese a day out of the question? < 1279495860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The one that makes everything taste sweet afterwards. < 1279495876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has never tried it, sadtly
< 1279495876 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Depends on what kind of pasta... < 1279495886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: If it has little to no nutritional effect (low sugar content), you could make any diet pleasant by simply eating it before not-so-nice-tasting foods. < 1279495887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, pasta varies in more than shape??? < 1279495972 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful test to know what kind of carbs one can't eat: Measure the peak blood glucose after meal. Don't eat foods that cause it to rise too high. < 1279496011 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how I'd get my hands on such equipment, I'm not a diabetic < 1279496019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[as far as I know] < 1279496061 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h208.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279496064 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, and milk you drink (if you drink milk) is probably whole mik? < 1279496145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Indeed; bad, I presume? < 1279496163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't drink much milk usually, but the unit are demanding I do, and of course whole milk they demand. < 1279496170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLORIOUS PROTEIN AND CALCIUM. < 1279496197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to see a source for Ilari's claims other than Ilari, tbh
< 1279496218 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that milk is not too good for older mammals < 1279496317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Being Germanic, mwahahah I can digest milk still. < 1279496343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄ ▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ < 1279496344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █ ▄▄▄ █ ▄▄▀█ █ ▄▄▄ █ < 1279496344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █ ███ █ █▀ ▄▀ █ ███ █ < 1279496344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █▄▄▄▄▄█ ▄▀█▀█ █▄▄▄▄▄█ < 1279496344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ▄▄▄▄ ▄ ▄▄▄██▄ ▄▄▄ ▄ < 1279496344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ▀▄▄ ██▄ ▀▄█▄▀█ ▄▀▀▀▄█ < 1279496346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ▀ ████▄ █▀▀▀▄ ▄▄▀▀ ▀▄ < 1279496348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▄▄▀▀▀▄ █ ▀ ▀ < 1279496350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █ ▄▄▄ █ █▄ ▀█ █▄███ < 1279496352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █ ███ █ █ ▄█▀▄▄ ▀█▀ < 1279496354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █▄▄▄▄▄█ █ ██▄███▀ ▄ ▀ < 1279496367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAWL < 1279496368 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuddlrlrabs < 1279496399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's a QR code! < 1279496426 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, you got some of the spacing wrong < 1279496431 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close though < 1279496442 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks cool < 1279496462 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279496462 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but should it be displayed white on black or vice versa? < 1279496472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Any reason for the QR code? < 1279496474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not on a monospaced font < 1279496477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i used a proper generator < 1279496481 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279496485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: black on white < 1279496488 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, in a monospaced font < 1279496489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.asciiqr.com/ < 1279496501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄ ▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ < 1279496501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █ ▄▄▄ █ ▀▄ ▀ █ ▄▄▄ █ < 1279496501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █ ███ █ ▀ ▄█▄ █ ███ █ < 1279496501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █▄▄▄▄▄█ █▀█ █ █▄▄▄▄▄█ < 1279496501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▀▀█▄ ▄ ▄ ▄ < 1279496502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ▀▄▀ █▄▄ █▄▀▄ ▀▄▄▄▄▀ < 1279496504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █▀█▀▄█▄▀ ▄ ▄ ▄ ▀█ █ ▄ < 1279496506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ █ ▀▀█▀█▄ ▀ ▄▀ < 1279496508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █ ▄▄▄ █ ▄▀█▀█▀▀▄ ▀▄ ▀ < 1279496508 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII? That looks more like unicode... :-) < 1279496510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █ ███ █ █▀ ▄▀▄ ▀▄▄█ < 1279496512 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second line is off < 1279496512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : █▄▄▄▄▄█ ██▄▄ ▄ ▀█▄█▄ < 1279496514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better? < 1279496516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe your unicode font sucks. < 1279496518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: indeed < 1279496520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page mentions so < 1279496531 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing again < 1279496537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, the issue is not mine. < 1279496541 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second line has the right-hand box dedendted < 1279496542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION growls at Ilari and coppro's interruption
< 1279496543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is fine on the site < 1279496551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your unicode font sucks < 1279496562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: interruption of what? < 1279496562 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does look fine on the site to me < 1279496575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one said Hello, world! in case anyone cared < 1279496576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, alise, it is fixed-width < 1279496578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can check < 1279496580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the qr code < 1279496591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: then either my client or your client is doing something < 1279496604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Appears fine here. < 1279496605 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I concur < 1279496609 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know what, though < 1279496671 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except this client displays blue on black, instead of black on white < 1279496678 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But other than that it displays it OK < 1279496690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decode this: < 1279496692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tinyurl.com/32gn6c4 < 1279496702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Brought to you by Abusing TinyURL + data: To Store Data Productions.) < 1279496707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zxing.org/w/decode.jspx might help. < 1279496797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we can rewrite this ASCII QR code in QBASIC or in machine codes for DOS computers (.COM file). And then it can run on FreeDOS < 1279496808 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1279496827 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it can be done for even displaying black text on white background, by setting the text colors on the screen < 1279496845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, you can. < 1279496862 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Maybe I will < 1279496868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure thing. < 1279496877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not write it in Pascal or C, though? < 1279496887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. Passing data: to TinyURL. Brilliant. < 1279496887 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279496899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed. And also probably against every item in their TOS. < 1279496911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, google "data URI kitchen" -- browser frozen atm -- for Hixie's wonderful tool. < 1279496916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tick base64 for smaller URIs. < 1279496920 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1279496938 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "may only be used for actual URLs" < 1279496939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URI-encoding The Metamorphosis: not my greatest idea. < 1279496939 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you possibly seen: Gavin operating system? < 1279496940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a 32-bit multitasking operating system for x86 computers, < 1279496944 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not our fault if they don't know what a URL is < 1279496945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yep; happily disregarded. < 1279496945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually, their TOS is easy. < 1279496946 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with GUI and filesystem, support for loading and executing user < 1279496949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome doesn't seem to like it < 1279496951 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applications in elf binary format, with ps2 mouse and keyboard drivers, < 1279496955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and vesa graphics. And a command shell. And an application - < 1279496957 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data:// is a perfectly valid URL < 1279496959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simple text-file viewer. < 1279496962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may only be used for actual URLs and legal purposes. < 1279496965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data: is a URL. < 1279496968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1279496968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Request-URI Too Large < 1279496968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The requested URL /chart... is too large to process. < 1279496972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're good! < 1279496972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU GOOGLE PROCESS IT BITCH. < 1279496975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, it isn't < 1279496976 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279496977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data: is a URI. < 1279496979 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data: is a valid URL but it has to have some data after it < 1279496986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't locate a resource, therefore it is not a URL. < 1279496988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URI, not URL < 1279496996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, arguably on the boundary < 1279497003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be used to display a resource, but it doesn't /locate/ one < 1279497005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /is/ one < 1279497015 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. It doesn't locate a resource. But it does return a resource < 1279497027 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consisting of the data contained in the URL/URI line < 1279497060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other URL/URIs consist only of actions and have no returned file, such as telnet: and javascript: < 1279497102 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if javascript: could really be considered a URI, or if we need an even more general name
< 1279497104 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gavin operating system must be compiled using a special C program in the IOCCC. The C program is 3.5K long but the actual operating system program is very short. < 1279497120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much more general can we get? < 1279497125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UR? < 1279497130 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UR. < 1279497149 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript is not a resource at all. But a telnet session is a pointer to a computer that you can connect to using the telnet protocol. < 1279497159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U.. < 1279497175 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1279497181 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They put // afterward because it is for the name (or number) of the computer, and optionally port number, to connect to, to access it. < 1279497204 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP does :// for other URLs as well, but in my opinion they shouldn't. < 1279497240 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People like disobeying standards for U..s < 1279497270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAHWTF < 1279497286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 HAS DECIDED TO LOCK ON CAPS LOCK < 1279497296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE THAT I DON'T HAVE CAPS LOCK TO SPEAK OF... < 1279497297 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But file: is three slashes because the section for computer to connect to is blank. (I suppose you can still have a computer name there, in case it is a network resource or whatever that uses a standard filesystem access) < 1279497299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SERIOUSLY, WTF? < 1279497321 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, in the future, I'm referring to ISO standards by URI < 1279497451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell did it do that... < 1279497452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many bits should I need to make a hypernet key? (There are different kinds of hypernet keys, DS (digital signature) and S (static data) is two of them) < 1279497515 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Is there a MIME type for HTTP responses? < 1279497562 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what a hypernet key is
< 1279497597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because X is retarded.