00:00:45 mu 00:01:25 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/367480/are-there-any-single-letter-programming-language-names-left 00:03:34 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:04:04 How many of those are MS languages? 00:04:11 erm, the taken ones 00:04:32 GOODBYE 00:04:33 -!- cpressey has left (?). 00:11:23 hm 00:12:20 it is a pity that ghc doesn't have the runtime reloading capabilities of erlang. That is why I'm not going to use haskell for this irc bouncer I'm considering writing 00:15:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:15:49 -!- augur has joined. 00:17:21 Hell, I'm using C# for a project that.. it would have been nice to have runtime reloading for 00:26:42 AnMaster: what about the plugins package(s)? 00:27:16 they allow you do load stuff, maybe not as conveniently as erlang, which i don't really know 00:27:26 *to load 00:32:16 Stupid question, but r^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 is the equation for a sphere? 00:32:38 centered at (0,0,0), yes 00:33:48 * Sgeo wonders what r = x+y+z is the equation of 00:34:02 a plane 00:34:09 oerjan, hm should check that out. But how to update the core on the fly? 00:34:56 AnMaster: i expect you'll need some continuation passing style to launch the new version as a function, i vaguely thought that's what erlang did as well 00:35:23 oerjan, besides this is mainly IO stuff and haskell seems slightly cumbersome for stuff that is >90% IO 00:35:52 i guess updating ghc itself would be impossible to do in this way, if that's what you mean by core 00:36:10 oerjan, well you can't do beam either that way (the erlang VM) 00:36:30 ok 00:37:11 oerjan: how Erlang does it is that a module can exist twice in memory as 'new' and 'old' versions 00:37:38 oerjan, and erlang loads a new version of the module and then makes all future calls to it point to the new one. Calls to the module from within itself point to the same version calling, so you switch by calling it with module name, not just function name. 00:37:47 code running in the old version will continue to call the old version on normal calls, but if you qualify them with module:function, then it will use the new module 00:37:56 calls from outside the module always go into the new one 00:37:58 yeah what coppro explained better than me 00:38:04 coppro: well that direct-plugins package i looked at includes the package name as part of the loading, including version number, so it should be similar 00:38:25 version numbers aren't necessary 00:38:44 oerjan, however this does not help much with reloading the code that handles loading and reloading of plugins 00:38:52 well it would be in the haskell version 00:38:57 ah 00:39:13 well I would probably go for OTP with erlang 00:39:26 AnMaster: that can usually be done too, can't it? 00:39:43 but then i expect erlang has had years to perfect this, it's _the_ language that's known for supporting it after all 00:39:44 coppro, what can? 00:39:48 http://pastie.org/1054576 00:39:52 I haven't gone insane, have I? 00:39:56 AnMaster: reloading the plugin-reloading code in Erlang 00:40:03 coppro, yes but I meant in haskell 00:40:13 No surprise that erlang supports runtime reloading of code, considering what enviroments it was designed to operate in... 00:40:13 I can take the ... unit vector, is that the right term ... of a vector without square rooting? 00:40:14 oh 00:40:20 Ilari: yeah, it's awesome 00:40:29 you can even reload the VM piece by piece 00:40:36 (if doing multiple nodes) 00:40:41 Sgeo, yes you have gone insane. It is insane to not use LaTeX to format that. the ASCII notation is completely unreadable 00:41:07 Ilari, indeed 00:41:57 coppro, well what if the version change changes the distribution protocol? Though of course erlang does support using ancient versions of that protocol still 00:42:07 Sgeo: what? 00:42:50 oerjan, to make a unit vector out of a vector, I just need to divide all the parts by r^2? 00:42:53 AnMaster: the VM should have a system by which to switch protocols ad-hoc! (I don't know if it does. I would not be entirely surprised) 00:43:07 Sgeo: that last line of yours is not a vector 00:43:21 coppro, I'm not sure either. But iirc it needs to use the same version against all other nodes 00:43:31 * Sgeo has no clue of proper notation right now 00:43:42 it's still the same sphere 00:43:48 AnMaster: well, once every node is upgraded, they could probably synchronize a protocol upgrade 00:43:58 coppro, hm 00:44:10 coppro, I don't know how that would be done though 00:44:29 coppro, though the protocol doesn't change very often so not such a large issue really 00:44:38 Sgeo: a vector is like (x,y,z) 00:44:56 think it changed last time two major releases ago, and considering those happens like every other year at most... 00:44:59 Well, the new vector would be (x_0^2/r_0^2 etc 00:45:17 and if r^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2, the corresponding unit vector is (x/r, y/r, z/r), _not_ /r^2 00:46:25 wow checking release notes of the R14A erlang alpha version I see they mention speed up of the profiler in the range of 6 to 84 times 00:46:29 not bad 00:46:53 oerjan, why wouldn't x^2/r^2 work? 00:47:43 Oh, because that's the squared term for the new x 00:47:44 Sgeo: for one thing, with (x^2/r^2, y^2/r^2, z^2/r^2) you have a vector proportional to (x^2, y^2, z^2), _not_ to (x,y,z) 00:48:27 although it's not even the unit vector of _that_ 00:49:07 it's not necessarily a unit vector at all, since it's length is sqrt(x^4 + y^4 + z^4)/r^2 00:49:12 *its 00:49:56 Does Erlang multi-VM connections still need global shared secrets? 00:49:59 The reason I'm apprehensive about square roots is because I'm dealing with ints 00:50:32 Sgeo: the unit vector of an int vector is not necessarily an int vector, or even rational 00:51:10 Just consider unit vector of (2,0,1). 00:51:38 Does Erlang multi-VM connections still need global shared secrets? <-- iirc there are other ways, but that is still the default 00:51:49 I think there is some support for ssl even 00:52:08 probably going to need some work setting that up 00:52:25 besides the default way makes most sense on a trusted network like can be found in typical clusters 00:52:30 Some multi-VM systems use only local secrets and pairwise shared secrets. 00:52:56 (and the pairwise shared secrets are autonegotiated). 00:53:25 Ilari, yes but imagine you have lots of nodes, Since erlang networks tend to be complete graphs (though they don't need to iirc) that would mean a lot of secrets to generate 00:53:36 for something like 100 nodes or whatever 00:54:25 N local secrets total to generate, each node needing to negotiate N shared secrets. 00:54:54 hm 00:55:17 Ilari, anyway having one global shared secret is not much of an issue for the typical use case of erlang really 00:55:29 Yeah, for typical case it isn't. 00:55:29 and there is always that ssl option if you don't trust stuff 00:56:20 One could store shared secret sufficient to secure communications in 96 bytes (2*32 byte keys, 2*16 byte IVs). 00:57:10 Ilari, by default erlang only uses it for auth though, not for encryption of the actual data. Again due to the typical use case. And if you need more than that you still have that ssl option 00:57:20 which ought to be a lot better than rolling your own 00:57:28 since getting cryptos right is hard 00:57:34 I think one could do with even less memory if one wanted to (such as 1x32 byte key, 1x12 byte IV for total of 44 bytes). 00:59:21 Ilari, 12 bytes would end up being padded on most systems 00:59:26 either that or being rather slow 00:59:45 More specifically, the key exchange is hard. If you have shared secret, just derive session keys and initial IVs and use AES256-GCM. 00:59:47 wait, byte not bit 00:59:48 right 01:00:14 Ilari, what about side channel attacks on your AES256 implementation? ;P 01:01:29 Presumably you got AES256 from some library (as implemeting fast AES256 isn't quite trivial). 01:02:00 touche 01:02:09 Ilari, ssl is still a better idea probably 01:02:32 Ilari, what about MITM and your idea? 01:02:43 That's why the key exchange is hard. 01:02:48 right 01:05:21 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:05:27 SSL is quite horridly complicated. 01:05:41 hm 01:06:15 The joke is that NSA has unit for sabotaging crypto systems. They even write code implementing crypto stuff... Professional-looking code at that. 01:06:21 "Added function zip:foldl/3 to iterate over zip archives." <-- heh nice 01:07:28 not sure how a left fold and a right fold over a zip would work though 01:08:53 SSL(TLS) really gets complicated when X509 is included in. 01:09:01 X509 being? 01:09:20 The standard cert spec used with TLS. 01:09:29 ah 01:10:34 Hmm... Wonder how many systems in world use TLS connections that do not involve X509 certificates. They are probably exceedingly rare (but I happen to have one). 01:11:01 Ilari, I didn't know you could skip certs 01:11:17 Ilari, anyway, what system is that? 01:12:07 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:13:16 Version of git:// extended to support TLS (using custom remote helper and custom daemon). 01:13:29 heh 01:13:45 Ilari, how does it do auth without X509 01:15:10 Supported authentications: Server: OpenPGP certs (bit SSH-style), Client: Anonymous, Unix user authentication, SRP, OpenPGP certs or SSH keypairs. 01:15:30 SRP? 01:15:42 Ilari, also why not just tunnel git over ssh :P 01:15:44 Form of username/password authentication. 01:16:05 ssh seems a lot less complicated than ssl 01:16:16 at least for the auth stuff 01:16:18 AnMaster: Well, that's the standard way. 01:16:33 yes, bzr is usually tunneled over ssh too for example 01:16:40 hg tends to go over https iirc 01:19:18 My dad said that haskell was the newbie's functional programming language. 01:19:21 Should I agree with this? 01:19:25 -space 01:19:32 The extended protocol is indeed true superset, I have seen the normal Git internal git:// client get successful connection and grab stuff. 01:19:37 wareya, what one does he suggest instead? 01:20:02 though I would suggest something like scheme fits that description better 01:20:56 Yes, it uses TLS but can use ssh keypairs for authentication. 01:21:20 (and that is the standard mode when I use it between machines, within the same machine, I use unix user auth). 01:22:15 hm 01:22:22 does haskell have call/cc btw? 01:22:26 He suggested common lisp 01:22:31 AnMaster: in a monad :D 01:22:52 oerjan, well obviously it breaks the pure functional semantics yes. 01:23:52 specifically callCC is a method of the MonadCont class, which includes the Cont and ContT m monads 01:24:07 the latter being a transformer 01:24:59 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:25:01 ah 01:26:43 so you can use ContT IO to get continuations/callCC combined with IO 01:26:51 coppro, last erlang beta release (R14A) dropped support for the distribution protocol used in R11B and older. Or at least parts of that protocol. R11B was before I learned Erlang. Probably around the time it went open source, which was several years ago. 01:28:21 ContT... IO. 01:28:26 o.O 01:28:31 oh right 01:28:51 That has got to have somewhat odd effects on side effects. 01:28:59 it should be ContT r IO where r is the type returned by the final continuation 01:29:39 pikhq: not really, it's more or less like in scheme, they're not undone just because you jump around 01:29:43 okay wtf "OTP-8686 A bug introduced in kernel-2.13.5.3 has been fixed." <-- complete changelog writing fail 01:30:14 oerjan: So, it works just exactly how you'd expect. 01:30:18 kernel isn't even part of OTP, is it? 01:30:23 Which is itself very mind-bending. 01:30:33 coppro, well OTP-nnnn is some bug tracker number 01:30:40 oh 01:30:53 coppro, all entries in the changelog have one of them 01:30:57 but yeah: what bug 01:31:02 pikhq: now if you could have an IOT transformer and use IOT (Cont r), then that would really have worked that way, i think. Except IOT is impossible afaik 01:31:08 I mean, usually they are all very detailed 01:31:19 (that way = undoing side effects) 01:31:23 oerjan: IOT? IOT?!? 01:31:30 AAAAAAGHMYHEAD 01:32:00 pikhq: purely hypothetical monad transformer that adds IO _inside_ pure code, it would be. 01:32:08 Yes. 01:32:11 AAAAGHMYHEAD 01:32:15 Which is itself very mind-bending. <-- you mean call/cc in general? I agree completely then 01:32:26 AnMaster: Yes. 01:33:00 -!- Gregor-L has changed nick to Gregor. 01:33:13 pikhq: to see _some_ of that effect, compare StateT s (Cont r) with ContT r (State s) 01:33:27 pikhq, call/cc that isn't returned from the call/cc is quite easy to understand though. After all it is quite similar to the C setjmp/longjmp stuff then 01:33:38 returning the continuation: argh 01:33:47 in the former, jumping _would_ undo state changes, in the latter it wouldn't. iirc. 01:33:56 oerjan, aaaargh 01:34:04 oerjan: AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGH 01:34:52 oerjan: It's *time travel*! It's actual, literal, time travel! 01:35:02 *MWAHAHAHA* 01:35:14 oerjan, would that actually work? 01:35:36 AnMaster: Yes. 01:35:49 AnMaster: i _think_ so, it's been a while 01:35:58 pikhq, just add the IO monad there and you could kill your own grandfather then? 01:36:17 AnMaster: If you could do an IOT, then yes. 01:36:22 oh right 01:36:32 IOT *must* be impossible. It requires the ability to time travel. 01:36:45 damn 01:37:51 pikhq: as well as many-worlds, if you use it over [] :D 01:37:59 oerjan: :D 01:38:10 [] ? As in list? 01:38:14 yes 01:38:14 Yes. 01:38:42 hm I don't see how many-worlds follow from that but then this is doing my head in anyway so I might as well just not try to figure it out 01:39:23 Actually. Wouldn't you need a ListT monad? 01:39:46 AnMaster: lists act as the do-several-things-at-once monad. IOT [] would consists of lists of IO actions that were all simultaneously applied in separate environments 01:40:09 No, no, you wouldn't. 01:40:17 oerjan, hm 01:40:31 oerjan, okay that hurts. 01:40:42 well there is a ListT monad somewhere, i don't quite recall if it _was_ a true monad or not, there was at least something fishy with the initial implementation 01:41:19 (it's not afair included in the default libraries) 01:41:33 ... 01:41:46 *Befunge 98 interpreter in Haskell could use this*. 01:41:53 what would a ListT monad do? 01:43:10 AnMaster: nondeterminism/several-things-at-once of actions in an underlying monad. the transformer version of [] 01:43:19 * pikhq still is wincing from the freaking *time travel* monad 01:43:36 pikhq, use it to implement TRDS 01:43:43 AnMaster: Precisely. 01:44:07 pikhq, do it NOW 01:44:22 pikhq, I wonder why you are not in #microcosm btw 01:44:45 *consist (way back) 01:47:22 -!- Gregor-P has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:49:10 instance MonadIO STM where liftIO = return.unsafePerformIO 01:49:11 :) 01:51:54 --performs no unknown side-effects. 01:54:57 CakeProphet: evil 01:55:54 http://www.facebook.com/pages/Gregor-Richards/133966549972228 Hey guys I decided I'm all pretentious now :P 01:57:11 alien fashion sense, it all fits 01:58:26 Baaaaaa 02:01:11 http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com/ Jet powered car. 02:01:15 Street legal. 02:05:37 -!- p_q has joined. 02:07:37 p_q: nice goggles 02:07:44 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:08:31 check out my Grid 02:08:33 Grin* 02:08:41 search the esolang wiki 02:08:45 I made it better 02:10:37 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:10:37 Time travel monad? 02:11:08 Also, what's evil about what CakeProphet did? 02:12:05 Madk: did you mean to delete the M-code hello world? we seem to have edited simultaneously 02:12:24 recheck 02:12:28 I moved it again 02:12:31 to the end of the Ms 02:12:59 argh 02:13:02 ? 02:13:14 Madk: the - should not count for the ordering, dammit :D 02:13:20 :/ 02:13:27 that's why i moved it first 02:13:33 -!- wareya has joined. 02:13:42 It should count 02:17:09 Street legal. <-- ... how? 02:17:18 AnMaster: Somehow. 02:18:12 "That doesn't stop me from the occasional blast on the highway though." <-- that can't be legal 02:18:28 AnMaster: It is not *il*legal. 02:18:38 Sgeo: it violates the entire spirit of the STM monad, which is to disallow any side effects that are not controlled by the software transactions. and it even does so in a particularly unsafe way, since the IO action might _never_ be performed if the value isn't looked at. 02:19:18 * Sgeo was misreading it as ST 02:19:47 it's evil for ST too 02:20:31 hah 02:20:31 functions like that should at least contain unsafe in the name (and ST has one which does) 02:20:47 -!- sshc_ has changed nick to sshc. 02:27:32 pikhq, hahaha: "Jet keeps sucking the rose out of the bud vase on the dash!" 02:27:41 Heheh. 02:30:00 "Hmmm, the car has two engines making the car a hybrid so maybe we can drive in the commuter lanes along with the Toyota Priuses." XD 02:31:14 * Sgeo compares electric cars to cloud computing 02:31:42 Sgeo, but electric cars aren't bullshit 02:31:45 so that doesn't work 02:32:31 not even bulshytt 02:32:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 02:32:47 It's more of an issue that power companies aren't being asked to store sensitive data 02:33:01 That's the thing that annoys me about cloud computing 02:33:47 pikhq, oh my... that guy is thinking about putting jet engines on a scooter too. That's just insane and a lot more unsafe than on a car 02:34:23 AnMaster: Yeah, well. 02:35:38 pikhq, besides actually using the jet engine outside car shows and such seems extremely dangerous to cars behind you 02:36:44 So, my dad won't let me give an unused phone to a friend :( 02:36:47 AnMaster: Almost certainly. 02:36:54 Sgeo: How old are you again? 02:36:56 21 02:37:08 :/ 02:37:18 ... And you need to give any credence to what your dad says... Why? 02:38:16 I've been not giving any credence to what my dad says since I was 15 :P 02:38:42 that sounds about right 02:38:53 coppro, what does? 02:39:06 I've been not giving any credence to what my dad says since I was 15 :P 02:40:39 pikhq, because he gives me money for everything 02:40:53 Including college 02:40:59 And pays for food, etc. 02:41:41 Gregor: Same! 02:41:53 Sgeo: Might I suggest a job? Your dad is fucking nuts. 02:42:07 That might interfere with school 02:42:12 No output. 02:42:15 And dad might pull college funding 02:42:25 Sgeo: Your dad is fucking nuts. 02:42:41 also your education system is fucking nuts 02:42:41 No output. 02:42:56 coppro: Yes, it is completely and utterly nuts. 02:42:58 No output. 02:43:24 At least I know that if my parents pulled school funding, I wouldn't be forced to drop out 02:43:52 coppro: And how much do they need to pay? 02:45:21 pikhq: Uh, depends how much I earn in the meantime. I expect that I could leave them with paying a net of 0, not counting the education funds that are set aside. I'll need a lot of help for the first year, and after that it's based on the quality of job I get. 02:45:36 coppro, school funding? That's the state 02:45:51 coppro: Sorry, how much *need be paid*. 02:45:54 pikhq: oh 02:45:55 In general. 02:46:01 -!- Madk has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:46:03 probably on the order of $80k 02:46:07 total 02:46:08 that's a lot 02:46:17 indeed 02:46:25 ... That's rather a lot. 02:46:27 the government should fund it 02:46:34 I'm on the upper edge of payment at my school though 02:46:42 and that's including living expenses, etc. 02:46:46 coppro, which country are you in 02:46:49 Canada 02:47:04 ah living expenses and text books are not included in the 0 SEK cost for me at university. 02:47:13 yeah, you Europeans have it nice 02:47:14 text books are only included up to high school iirc 02:47:19 although I'm in an expensive program 02:47:24 AnMaster: ... *0*? 02:47:25 there are programs that are significantly cheaper 02:47:39 pikhq, well as I said, living costs and text books still cost 02:47:45 WHY THE HELL AM I NOT IN EUROPE 02:47:52 also, my parents are rich 02:47:54 pikhq, because you can't be in two places at once 02:47:56 if they weren't the government would pay 02:48:18 hm that is an interesting system 02:48:29 it's actually pretty bad 02:48:37 since it's based on parental income 02:48:45 yes that doesn't make much sense 02:48:49 and parental income does not always translate to funds available for students 02:48:51 should be based on your own incom 02:48:55 income* 02:49:35 coppro: Better than US's setup. 02:49:44 and of course there's student loans... woohoo 02:50:04 Whereby the government doesn't pay until your family's poor enough to barely be able to afford *food*. 02:50:04 coppro, there are those here. Meant for text books and living costs 02:57:17 -!- Madk has joined. 03:00:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:00:48 -!- augur has joined. 03:03:57 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:04:03 -!- augur has joined. 03:04:52 -!- Madk has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:08:32 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:14:49 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:14:53 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 03:22:11 -!- CakeProphet has changed nick to _____. 03:22:40 -!- _____ has changed nick to Guest12555. 03:22:52 -!- Guest12555 has changed nick to CakeProphet. 03:25:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:25:45 -!- augur has joined. 03:36:06 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:36:08 -!- HackEgo has joined. 03:36:12 Fuck? 03:36:17 Gregor's first child now has a little brother or sister! Aren't they so cute together? 03:36:24 Hm, wonder what went wrong before. 03:37:50 Clearly, HackEgo disapproved of cursing, and has now grown up. 03:38:32 Yup. 03:40:28 `quote 03:40:30 166| you move on the tape and shit 03:47:30 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:00:14 -!- wareya has joined. 04:00:36 Gregor's first child now has a little brother or sister! Aren't they so cute together? <-- how did that happen 04:00:43 also you have children? ^_^ 04:00:52 you are like way too young for that 04:01:23 should wait until you are 35 at least, that way you have a lot more money and also get a lot more time without children 04:01:55 :P 04:02:20 AnMaster: HackEgo rewards you with a child every time you say the F-word :P 04:02:23 Which makes sense. 04:02:51 Prooooooobably not having real children any time soon :P 04:13:46 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:19:23 -!- augur has joined. 04:25:19 Copulation! 04:27:03 -!- sftp has quit (*.net *.split). 04:27:04 -!- dbc has quit (*.net *.split). 04:27:04 -!- mycroftiv has quit (*.net *.split). 04:31:32 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 04:32:23 -!- sftp has joined. 04:32:23 -!- dbc has joined. 04:32:23 -!- mycroftiv has joined. 04:33:26 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:50:54 Gregor, fuck that 04:50:56 Congratulations! AnMaster's action has brought a beautiful new baby into the world. Isn't it adorable? 04:51:06 Gregor, damn you 04:51:13 wtf 04:51:24 :P 04:52:11 Gregor, so from now on I'll always use damn 04:52:18 Gregor, also what if I'm quoting something 04:52:21 it needs to understand it 04:52:23 THEN BABIES 04:52:25 Gregor, thus AI HARD 04:52:33 The real problem is when you're talking about a certain programming language :P 04:52:41 A certain, enormously topical programming language. 04:52:44 Gregor, it does it inside a word? 04:52:50 Gregor, okay just disable it then 04:52:56 It's just /fu*ck/i :P 04:53:01 Erm, fuu*ck 04:53:14 Gregor, which one do you mean btw 04:53:17 please type it out 04:53:29 /fuu*ck/i 04:53:38 no which programming language 04:53:43 BrainFuck :P 04:54:00 No output. 04:54:22 >_< 04:54:26 Borken again :P 04:54:32 OK, I'm disabling it because it keeps breaking things :P 04:55:04 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:55:06 -!- HackEgo has joined. 04:56:05 Gregor, see 04:57:06 Moop 05:00:25 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH 05:00:37 google image search preview pages gone web 2.0 05:00:48 http://preview.tinyurl.com/3xbmmtr 05:00:55 (because url is longer than one IRC line) 05:01:07 Hm 05:01:10 So 'tas. 05:01:14 Gregor, ? 05:01:19 define 'tas 05:01:27 "it has" 05:01:31 ah 05:01:41 Gregor, this is horrible 05:01:45 this is an outrage 05:01:49 against all google stood for 05:02:28 Almost as against all that Google stood for as the rest of Google. 05:02:48 Gregor, eh? 05:05:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:06:02 AnMaster, and they still use cookies with that long url? 05:07:47 Somebody know of or want to write a generic card game server? That is, one that enforces no rules, just lets you take cards and treat them in usual card-like ways (make stack, put them face-up or face-down, etc) 05:07:53 (Multi-player) 05:11:01 Gregor: Mindless Automaton is close. 05:11:14 Link? 05:11:21 Ohhey 05:11:53 Its set of actions is set up around Magic. However, it enforces 0 rules, and the set of actions is kinda generic because of that. 05:11:53 Hmmm ... AFAICT the only thing it lacks is a standard deck? 05:12:18 I think it also enforces Magic *card types*, but that's not a big deal; it'll let you stick in typeless cards. 05:12:22 http://mindless.sourceforge.net/ 05:12:25 , BTW. 05:12:33 I just wonder how much work it would be to make it use generic cards. 05:13:40 Depends on how complex those cards are. 05:14:19 I'm talking about playing cards. 05:14:25 Like, A, 1-10, J, Q, K 05:14:36 *Oooooh*. 05:14:56 Maybe toss a Joker in there if I'm feeling frisky. 05:15:00 Also take out the 1 :P 05:15:07 Okay, the major problem you have there is that Mindless Automaton assumes two decks. 05:15:46 I assume two decks ... shuffled together. 05:15:55 Ohwait, hyuk 05:16:01 Hydra is played with each player having their own draw pile. 05:16:07