< 1280188803 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I knew I shoulda turned left at Alberquerque. Or however you spell it. < 1280188810 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280188818 0 :ivancastillo75!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think however i'm not gonna find what < 1280188822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: this is one of the nerdiest channels on the internet, surely. don't expect much "normal" talk < 1280188833 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: First the wadding! Then the shot! THEN the powder! ... < 1280188839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75, we speak English. Computers do not speak English. People have made languages used to give computers instructions. Some people (like us) make weird such languages and use them, for fun < 1280188841 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: Basically look at it this way. We're /all/ the Cheshire Cat. < 1280188841 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: Isn't that wonderful? < 1280188864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well, there is a Plain English programming language somewhere. < 1280188866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't use it. < 1280188870 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is trying reasonable explanation. I scoff at him! Scoff! < 1280188904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me->talk_only_in(new ObjectOrientedSpeech(type => 'pseudocode', syntax => vaguely('Perl-like')); < 1280188917 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: we are usually /slightly/ saner than this < 1280188920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." < 1280188924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if the /me is legal Perl syntax? < 1280188935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, could be if it was the end of a s// statement on a previous line < 1280188938 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: say in the day. I'm in a mental institution so I'm the bad influence. < 1280188952 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not here in the day, ergo... < 1280188953 0 :ivancastillo75!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're alright aliseiphone. < 1280188977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if only we were ontopic more often, this sort of debacle would happen less often < 1280188986 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you really want someone you can talk to, ivancastillo75, you should strike up a conversation with fungot. < 1280188986 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you've been corrupted :) nice progress on that fnord project was able to achieve victory in world war ii. its power is derived mainly from the fact that cl is " ok" < 1280188990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves debacles! < 1280188996 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: That's what they want you to think. Mwahahahaha! < 1280189012 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you iPhone for adding the right number of "ha"s. < 1280189012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, I will strive to steer conversation offtopic. < 1280189022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As of now, I am abandoning work on PSOX. < 1280189030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cue cheers* < 1280189034 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yaaaay < 1280189075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if only the _topic_ were on topic more often, you mean >:) < 1280189087 0 :ivancastillo75!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still can't see how this space can enlighten me; except only by the experience! < 1280189096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's easy to make the topic ontopic < 1280189117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :(a(:^)*S):^ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1280189127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75, the goal of this channel is not spiritual enlightment. Some of us don't even believe in spiritual stuff < 1280189131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only until you look away for a moment < 1280189134 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: you know this babble? < 1280189136 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Such as most of us. < 1280189141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (a(:^)*S):^ < 1280189141 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a(:^)*S):^ < 1280189151 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: It's how the eightebed communicate. < 1280189155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you wouldn't expect me to get something that simple wrong, would you? < 1280189173 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: Eightebed is either a mistake or our word for enlightened. < 1280189184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: you're not helping... < 1280189211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it wasn't the standard shortest quine, and i wasn't in the mood to interpret it in my head < 1280189215 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :(a(:^)*S):^ | WARNING: Feelings of spiritual enlightenment attained while using this channel may actually be early signs of brain cancer, it is highly recommended that you seek an ontologist rather than a spiritual adviser if these effects are observed | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1280189222 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: Basically mental perfection is boring so we deliberately go insane and become preoccupied with say, silly computer languages. < 1280189222 0 :ivancastillo75!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I know not of such a word among the initiates < 1280189226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((The great thing about this particular quine is how easy it is to insert a particular payload)!(:^)*S):^ < 1280189226 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The great thing about this particular quine is how easy it is to insert a particular payload)!(:^)*S:^ < 1280189236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, missed the a < 1280189241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: *oncologist < 1280189241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((The great thing about this particular quine is how easy it is to insert a particular payload)!a(:^)*S):^ < 1280189241 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((The great thing about this particular quine is how easy it is to insert a particular payload)!a(:^)*S):^ < 1280189250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75, I don't know what an initiate is < 1280189251 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ... lawl < 1280189255 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: Initiates; but not eightebedites. < 1280189259 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Interesting inversion in my brain thar X-D < 1280189263 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: Trust them or us? < 1280189267 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :(a(:^)*S):^ | WARNING: Feelings of spiritual enlightenment attained while using this channel may actually be early signs of brain cancer, it is highly recommended that you seek an oncologist rather than a spiritual adviser if these effects are observed | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1280189286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IIRC it's equal length to the standard shortest quine too < 1280189290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that version's by Keymaker < 1280189302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The path is grey < 1280189307 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: I preferred ontologist :) < 1280189307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is rather neater than the standard one < 1280189321 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The path is also quite muddy. Wear rubber boots. < 1280189322 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :(a(:^)*S):^ | WARNING: Feelings of spiritual enlightenment attained while using this channel may actually be early signs of brain cancer, it is highly recommended that you seek an oncologist rather than an ontologist if these effects are observed | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1280189346 0 :ivancastillo75!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's an eightebedite? < 1280189368 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's the name of my next language, that much is known. < 1280189372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Afraid is an emotion, and is the color of weakness, which is a color that is not grey. < 1280189383 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not my very next, then one in the near future, surely. < 1280189386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75, probably a typo < 1280189397 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: An enlightened person from here; an enthusiast in our computer stuff who is, bluntly, both insane and at utter peace with this fact. < 1280189413 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance ais523, cpressey, oerjan... < 1280189424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: actually, I go into this channel to /regain/ my sanity < 1280189428 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels offended by not being in this list < 1280189429 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is our highest achievement. < 1280189431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to know what I get up to when I'm not here < 1280189441 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: or is it a compliment? < 1280189452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75, ais523 suffers from severe Java poisoning. < 1280189461 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have your utter sanity and a future! For now ... < 1280189490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and I don't even drink coffee < 1280189491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell map length ["(a(:^)*S):^","(:aSS):aSS"] < 1280189501 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11,10] < 1280189505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1280189511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how I miscounted that? < 1280189519 0 :ivancastillo75!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are you guys like the enlightend programmer geeks of the internet? < 1280189519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, on the other hand, am suffering C# poisoning, and I'm not a musician < 1280189533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: well, we program without regards to what convention says < 1280189534 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: We have recognised that one cannot sort all things out in one's head. We patch out an intellectual corner then understand ("grok") and come to terms with our ignorance of the rest. < 1280189546 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: Then, we are eightebeded. < 1280189558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it leads to useful discoveries, sometimes to confusion, sometimes to annoyance, mostly to apathy < 1280189560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75, (this enlightenment stuff is a joke, btw. I'm about to be yelled at for saying it) < 1280189569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, we are programmer geeks < 1280189577 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe to you! < 1280189593 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280189595 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: we find it hard to take ourselves seriously usually. < 1280189604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"usually"? < 1280189628 0 :ivancastillo75!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ("grok") < 1280189636 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well. Always < 1280189643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: to completely understand < 1280189656 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivancastillo75: A common term for "understand fully". Not just ours < 1280189660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, should have added a sarcasm mark < 1280189662 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google it if you want. < 1280189663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"usually"?~ < 1280189686 0 :ivancastillo75!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: The human race is a race of cowards; and I am not only marching in that procession but carrying a banner. -- Mark Twain < 1280189698 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pah. < 1280189702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he probably learned from that experience < 1280189703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awwwww < 1280189705 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, scared 'im off :P < 1280189705 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So close to convincing him. < 1280189705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or she < 1280189712 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would have been glorious. < 1280189718 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Most people named Ivan are women. < 1280189721 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Heh. Maybe so. < 1280189724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats aliseiphone -----### < 1280189729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will not allow people to be convinced of falsehoods about this channel. < 1280189737 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he half-bought it. < 1280189744 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nithing false was said < 1280189746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apart from when Firefly's here, oerjan's swats are like the Spanish Inquisition, you never see them coming < 1280189747 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Maybe she was Iva. Iva N. Castillo. < 1280189747 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Nothing < 1280189760 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it was closer to the truth than we realise < 1280189768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and come to think of it, it's not quite a bad description < 1280189778 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Touche < 1280189783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when people ask me to justify the time I spend esolanging, I normally say "well, maybe we'll discover something useful someday" < 1280189811 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Gah, not the Potential Utility Excuse?! < 1280189816 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was fun. < 1280189819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my supervisor was annoyed enough when he said it might be interesting to see how many assumptions can be removed from standard models of programming languages and still get a useful model, and the first one I removed was temporal causality < 1280189827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey you're the one here with least reason to explain, you already earned money on it essentially :D < 1280189833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good point < 1280189838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the intellectual exercise alone is worth it? < 1280189863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1280189865 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Keep espousing that and you'll be eightebed before you know it. < 1280189868 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's art. < 1280189871 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all. < 1280189876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, that's a quick one. < 1280189879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I /still/ don't see why that one's necessary < 1280189886 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My iPhone has just learned the word "eightebed". < 1280189909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Arguably, Haskell only *partly* has it... < 1280189912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280189918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, what with being mostly lazy. < 1280189928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i recall seeing a headline on reddit recently that if you're in a closed time loop, classical computing is equivalent to quantum < 1280189936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, time travel monad. < 1280189937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something close to that < 1280189943 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1280189947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's cheating, it muddles cause and effect < 1280189961 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sweet, 'cuz I'm in a closed time loop! < 1280189964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly if you know that something's going to be true in the future as a result of your actions now < 1280189975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set them up in such a way that you can observe your own actions to see which ones you take < 1280189977 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Say bf predated P'm < 1280189980 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*P'm < 1280189984 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*P'' < 1280189994 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would yield utility < 1280189998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is P'm even a real word? < 1280189998 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, if you're in a closed time loop, then computation is non-Turing-complete, so you're punked :P < 1280190007 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Can a useful thing really be art? < 1280190011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: no, it is TC; more so, in fact < 1280190011 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not. < 1280190016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can store data in arbitrary-precision reals < 1280190020 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So esolangs are ... Esolangs. < 1280190022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming a perfect universe < 1280190031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(an assumption which I've just realised may be rather unwise) < 1280190049 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: No, it's much worse than that, but stopping at "it's art" is a nice simple first-order approximation for me. < 1280190055 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Quantum effects are rounding errors, dude. < 1280190071 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for P'', fuck, whatever. < 1280190083 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to give up this belief, for it is wonderful. < 1280190094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: many of your esolangs seem to be more art than other people's < 1280190097 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: But that's illegal /and/ promiscuous! < 1280190109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION keeps having this weird idea that quantum effects is because there's some residue of causality that's backwards in time < 1280190114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are < 1280190120 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny because I ignored your comma. < 1280190177 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/teddynom.gif THIS IS AGAIN MY RESPONSE TO EVERYTHING < 1280190179 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is that so weird? I'm sure i've seen someone write about that < 1280190184 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280190185 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: is it sfw? < 1280190186 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three more visits you will see / From me / Then back to day patient / Happily / Terrible poems are my favourite / Laser horse < 1280190196 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes :P < 1280190212 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: thank you :) < 1280190226 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Awesome poetry. < 1280190238 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: It has inspired me to gamma horse. < 1280190248 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Explain the gif? Won't load fast enough :( < 1280190254 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280190260 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gams a horse < 1280190277 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: My explanation is TEDDY NOM < 1280190280 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h190.8.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280190284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well it's a fairly obvious idea i guess once you get the bell inequality kind of stuff that shows you cannot use only local, forward causality to explain QM < 1280190333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: 三つ旅見る・僕から・デーペシエン戻る・嬉しくて・目茶苦茶な詩一番好き・レーザ馬 < 1280190359 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280190367 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: I won't be able to sleep unless you explain >_> < 1280190373 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wat. < 1280190377 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: TEDDY - NOM < 1280190388 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a translation? < 1280190393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280190401 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Marry me. < 1280190416 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it as terrible in Japanese? < 1280190424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280190433 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280190445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it does end with "laser horse". < 1280190559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better still, it's somewhat archaic Japanese. < 1280190582 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280190649 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beneath / rushing waves / echoes of caves / choral speaks / above / a mile away / antaking a vicious dump < 1280190656 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an emu taking < 1280190781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Laser senseless horse favorite poem I see with pleasure trip back from three Depeshien < 1280190802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why the laser horse ended up at the start? < 1280190835 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The separating dots confused it < 1280190838 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume < 1280190847 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280190848 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the horse is senseless. < 1280190853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It failed to parse poetic Japanese. < 1280190868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised < 1280190876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the notable properties is that poetic Japanese omits a large number of particles. going for a bit more of a positional grammar. < 1280190877 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google hates poetry! < 1280191027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure where it got "senseless" from. < 1280191042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh, wait. The "mechakucha". < 1280191060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That was modifying "poem" though; even had the particle... < 1280191064 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laser horses are, by definition, senseless. < 1280191066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parser fail! < 1280191088 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They don't really parse. < 1280191104 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, see you. < 1280191112 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1280191116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mata. < 1280191128 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :三つ旅見る・僕から・デーペシエン戻る・嬉しくて・目茶苦茶な詩一番好き・レーザ馬 < 1280191135 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info < 1280191173 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h82.58.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280191182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. That last two phrases can also be parsed as "Terrible poem; my favorite/laser horse"... Interesting. < 1280191367 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adieus. < 1280191369 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280191524 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h197.8.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280191728 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280193364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that I'd be able to compile Vala with Microsoft's C compiler < 1280193370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I think < 1280193375 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, can I? < 1280193377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1280193385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vala produces fairly mundane C. < 1280193404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did everyone but me in this channel know about Vala? < 1280193406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it just requires an ISO C compiler and glib. < 1280193420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're geeks who care about programming languages. < 1280193442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really know about Vala < 1280193444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas you are an INFERIOR SOUL YOU PUNY MORTAL < 1280193456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard the name is all < 1280193463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, because the AW SDK doesn't seem to like GCC on Windows. GCC on Linux it can handle, but not Windows. < 1280193483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GCC specific stuff in the header is actually wrapped up in #ifdef LINUX < 1280193500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's a programming language that exists soley to make glib saner to use. < 1280193509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1280193513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about for applications programming in general? < 1280193523 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it be used as a sane alternative to C++? < 1280193558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't see why not. < 1280193607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's a C-like language, but it has Gobject as its object system. So, it automates all the boilerplate involved in using things like GTK. < 1280193673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, glib is not glibc < 1280193763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, glib is a C library that provides an object system and a bunch of utility functions and data structures. < 1280193783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the base for all the GNOME stuff. < 1280193806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't particularly interested in GNOME < 1280193812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More in a sane alternative to C++ < 1280193830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You can, of course, use Glib directly. < 1280193839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Vala seems saner than C++. < 1280193882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1280193887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The async stuff needs GIO < 1280193894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the async stuff rely on using a MainLoop? < 1280193926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it does rely on entering the event loop, yes. < 1280193936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glib should have its own event loop, though. < 1280193956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is actually *meant* to be used standalone, not just for GTK/GNOME stuff, after all. < 1280193968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(irssi, FWIW, uses glib) < 1280193969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIO doesn't imply GTK, does it? < 1280193978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think so. < 1280193982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1280194000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he should learn how GLib works in straight C < 1280194016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, don't. < 1280194020 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1280194029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glib from straight C is a monstrosity. < 1280194045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it what most GTK/GNOME stuff does? < 1280194055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's usable as a language-agnostic object system. But it's *horrifying* to use from C. < 1280194062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. This does not make it a good idea. < 1280194073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE TO FREAKING WRITE YOUR OWN VIRTUAL TABLES. < 1280194112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways: no, GIO does not imply GTK. < 1280194124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wow, manual vtables? < 1280194132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1280194141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's a C library. < 1280194147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so < 1280194157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you expect them to automate it? < 1280194157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's in C, that should be enough of a reason to not even attempt that sort of OO < 1280194173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well, they freaking did. < 1280194178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like manual vtables in brainfuck; sure, if you want vtables you have to do them manually < 1280194179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about using GObject stuff from C, without defining the classes? < 1280194189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have you thought that maybe, a vtable isn't the best way togo about this? < 1280194190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to go < 1280194196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. using Vala libraries from C? < 1280194196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's still a lot of boilerplate. < 1280194200 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1280194210 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't expect to write Vala libraries that C can easily use? < 1280194241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vala libraries *for Glib*, sure. It'll be no worse than anything else. < 1280194249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, if you just want plain, un-Glib C. No. < 1280194279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1280194282 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1280194317 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? < 1280194493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because such a language is very hard to trackdown < 1280194513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on < 1280194519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, isn't it just a matter of not using System.Windows? < 1280194520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1280194656 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on < 1280194658 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :199| Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on < 1280194735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I should learn how GIO works < 1280195275 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280195434 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280195557 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h84.46.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280195563 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280195590 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1280195802 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280196096 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h37.2.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280196354 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280196449 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280196582 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280196769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280197595 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :halfop? I've never heard of that. < 1280197619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some channels use it as an additional status < 1280197635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets you do the standard channel maintenance stuff (kick/ban/change topic), but not other op powers < 1280197680 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does being a halfop allow you get involved in bullshit power drama? < 1280197689 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that reserved for ops? < 1280197708 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some channels"? They have halfop on FreeNode? Surely you mean "some networks"? < 1280197760 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to my knowledge I've never seen halfop on freenode. irssi mentioned it when it displayed a count of ops/halfops/voices < 1280197768 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus why I asked. < 1280197781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some networks are too clever by half < 1280197786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: some channels, on otehr networks < 1280197795 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it :P < 1280197819 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh em gee but aren't channels like social networks themselves? woaaah < 1280197885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are networks of networks you know. that's why they call scale invariance, obviously < 1280197889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what < 1280197897 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD WHY TEDDY BEAR STOP IT STOP IT OH GOD NOOOOOOO < 1280197924 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so I herd u liek chainsaw sex? < 1280197982 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1280198021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think i may have the wrong word for that < 1280198089 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can't a network just be pictured as a graph? so then every subgraph is also a network. < 1280198101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or maybe not < 1280198153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's scale-free < 1280198169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale-free_network < 1280198176 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it include a style of programming? like pointfree? < 1280198208 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't actually know why point-free is called point-free... other than it has something to do with topology. < 1280198228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: do you know what a fixed point is? < 1280198234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fixed point of f(x) is where x=f(x) < 1280198240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a fixed point of f < 1280198317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: perhaps, functions are maps from sets to sets and the elements of sets are often called points, of course more often if there is a topology on the set < 1280198353 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1280198360 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then what is point-free? < 1280198371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's when you define functions without reference to any variables < 1280198372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a point-free functional program is then one that doesn't mention the points of functions only the functions themselves < 1280198397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, all Underload programs are point-free, because there's no way to reference variables < 1280198398 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes. that's what I know it to mean... but what does it mean in topology? < 1280198402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all lambda calculus programs aren't < 1280198425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: in topology a point is just an element of a topological space < 1280198443 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you had a syntax for partial application that looked something like this... < 1280198455 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = g 1 _ 'c' < 1280198467 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that point-free? the _ specifies the unapplied argument < 1280198467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where _ is an implicit variable? < 1280198470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still think that's pointed < 1280198479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically sugar for f = \_ -> g 1 _ c < 1280198489 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes... but you could also do < 1280198491 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = g 1 _ _ < 1280198498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas point-free would be if you somehow transformed g < 1280198500 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same as < 1280198506 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f x y = g 1 x y < 1280198508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (g 1) c is how you'd do it point-free in haskell < 1280198570 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've kind of wondered why I've never seen a partial application construct like that in a language. < 1280198582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: in haskell that's just f = g 1 < 1280198595 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, yes. I know Haskell pretty well. < 1280198596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Mathematica has one like that < 1280198605 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and know what point-free means in that context. I was just curious where the name came from. < 1280198629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well of course haskell has _ on the pattern side < 1280198695 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I think it would be handy to write map (g _ x) ls instead of map (flip g x) ls < 1280198711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: map (`g` x) ls < 1280198721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only works with single identifiers though < 1280198722 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, there's that I suppose. < 1280198773 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if _ would have to be lambda sugar... or if you could incooperate it into semantics as a value. < 1280198797 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f _ = flip f < 1280198816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh i've seen that feature suggested before btw < 1280198819 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f _ _ = ??? < 1280198844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one issue is that in a functional language it's not obvious where the lambda _starts_ < 1280198854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say if you have g (h _) < 1280198858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1280198862 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I've gotcha < 1280198862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(g (h _)) < 1280198868 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where to define the lambda. < 1280198879 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say to the "closest" function. < 1280198916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and once you do that sort of thing you are essentially ruining visual referential transparency < 1280198929 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you specified a special bracket notation... but then it becomes a not-good feature in my mind. < 1280198935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot just cut and paste parts and have them mean the same thing < 1280198995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also been suggested with monads btw, to sort of getting around the need for all that >>= etc. plumbing < 1280199018 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm? how would that work? < 1280199019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but once again it gets ugly < 1280199058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like print [[readLine]] would be equivalent to readLine >>= print < 1280199072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(inventing some brackets there) < 1280199076 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I things such as <$> and <*> are sufficient to hide plumbing in monad code. < 1280199090 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*think things < 1280199111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. it doesn't work for that example though, =<< or >>= is needed < 1280199124 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in that example readLine >>= print is perfectly clear. < 1280199145 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a roughly equal amount of typing... in that case. < 1280199194 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't "a sugar for >>=" just do? :) < 1280199217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes - but that again ruins pointfreeness < 1280199230 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ruins" it? < 1280199256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a >>= f becomes do x <- a; f x < 1280199266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :introducing the point x < 1280199272 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. actually in such cases I prefer >>= because it's more concise < 1280199291 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a more complex expression I prefer do notation < 1280199336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1280199344 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think I don't think it's much of a problem, really. The only thing that's really missing is a legible way to form complex point-free functions. < 1280199348 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280199361 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er.. my typing attention span has dropped. < 1280199411 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, do you have thoughts on Vala? < 1280199472 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually don't know what Vala is. < 1280199504 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://live.gnome.org/Vala < 1280199507 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you think a library of good higher-order functions would make legible point-free code? < 1280199515 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if so, what would such functions include? < 1280199530 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/functions/a module/ < 1280199738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered lambdabot's @pl command? < 1280199760 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used it, yes. but... I don't really believe it furthers the goal of legible pointfree code. < 1280199763 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...at all < 1280199766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it heavily uses the -> monad) < 1280199798 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure how the -> monad works. I've looked at it before but I can never remember exactly what it does. < 1280199817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also vaguely recall a different style but not quite what it was, i think it was somehow stack-based < 1280199827 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat. < 1280199853 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a large library of new higher-order functions would greatly reduce the obfuscation of pointfree style. < 1280199863 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not sure what those functions are. < 1280199883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name second comes to mind but i'm not sure if it was the Arrow method (although that one is also useful for pointfree things involving tuples) < 1280199897 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like `on` for example, are good < 1280199911 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second is from Arrow, yes. < 1280199918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i know that < 1280199923 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applies a function only to the second element of the tuple. < 1280199929 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that not the function you're thinking of? < 1280199933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just not sure if that was the second used in that stack style < 1280199969 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... not sure how tuples could translate to a stack style. unless you linked them. < 1280199990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i'm pretty sure it _wasn't_ the same function, anyway < 1280200042 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280200096 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like `on` that only applies the inner function to one of the outer functions arguments would be nice. < 1280200148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i think that's what that "stack" thing was, essentially < 1280200269 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno how clear the result code would be for complex expressions. < 1280200280 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there were a variety of helpers, again. < 1280200334 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, depending on how you define readable code, a large set of helper functions would be hard to read to someone unfamiliar with them. But, when gauging readability, I don't think it makes sense to include the case of someone with limited knowledge. < 1280200408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/a9tb2/secret_haskell_operators/ seems somewhat relevant < 1280200421 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"secret" operators, you say? < 1280200489 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... so < 1280200527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there is one of those functions for that other style, it's "result" < 1280200530 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would dependent types be deciable statically if you stipulated that function arguments that type depends on be literals/static-information only? < 1280200549 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/type/a type/ < 1280200566 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280200578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pascal did with fixed-size arrays? < 1280200583 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...dunno < 1280200617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ranges < 1280200618 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would neat to have a function f `without` n < 1280200626 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hey.. so did you finish your os? :) < 1280200630 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where n was the argument to partially apply later. < 1280200640 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: haha. my os? no, I just have this assembler skeleton. :) < 1280200666 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... n is the NUMBER of the argument to partially apply later < 1280200714 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not that I recommend such a function as a good idea for writing concise point-free code. Was just pondering the idea of how to implement it. < 1280200769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh if i recall correctly SML has specific operators for doing that with tuples, something like #3 to get the third element, and yes that's only the literal numbers allowed < 1280200828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too hard to write without2, without3 etc. though < 1280200830 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense that you could statically determine a type that depends on an input provided the input was also static < 1280200884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe if 1,2,3 etc. _were_ types - it's not like haskell doesn't overload notation between types and values already < 1280200911 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be weird. < 1280200921 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 :: Int and 3 :: 3 ? < 1280200958 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 :: 3 :: Int < 1280200962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there would need to be some way to signal that the type meaning is used, so `without` 3 wouldn't quite work < 1280200975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280200982 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1280201006 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 :: 3 :: Int :: Integral :: Number :: Object :: Type :: .... :-) < 1280201048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: :: is usually considered as element, not subset, so those after the first are not intuitive < 1280201050 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`without` 1 :: (a -> b) -> b -> a < 1280201051 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280201079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc Coq's system has stuff like 3 :: Int :: Set (although probably not exactly that notation) < 1280201089 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: element is easily generalized to subset < 1280201108 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you could write a "type function" like that... recursively < 1280201110 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then < 1280201111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Set/Type/ < 1280201118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although only Type and Prop are second-level types < 1280201120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1280201138 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`without` n :: ??? --something that produces the correct type recursively from `without` 1 < 1280201140 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280201155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that's _not_ a nice thing to do < 1280201164 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: x `subset` y = and (fmap (`elem` y) x < 1280201170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in set theory at any rate < 1280201193 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a efficiency standpoint as well, that is not a nice thing to do. < 1280201196 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works in the identity functor, lists, sets, and whatever else you dream up < 1280201197 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1280201201 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Vala likely to be slower than C++ due to using GObject? < 1280201215 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: premature optimization is evil... :p < 1280201229 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ah, but the optimization is occuring after the function has been written. :) < 1280201234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: No. < 1280201234 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not premature in my book. < 1280201257 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: defining something in the language specification is premature < 1280201266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i am pretty sure `without` (undefined :: T1) with T1 a type representing 1 could be made to work in haskell directly < 1280201274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: C++'s semantics demand overhead, you realise. < 1280201285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the undefined because we're not actually interested in the value, only the type < 1280201448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1280201450 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell should have _|_ as a special case identifier for undefined. Just 'cause. < 1280201548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ is not *just* the undefined value. < 1280201551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without :: T1) wouldn't quite work because without should be polymorphic in other arguments... < 1280201554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also infinite loops. < 1280201565 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: right, but undefined is _|_... so does it matter? < 1280201617 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is trying to make Haskell dependent. :) < 1280201646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just counting numbers < 1280201675 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you've seen alise's thing that uses type families right? < 1280201685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1280201700 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computes operations on natural numbers in the type system < 1280201710 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a paper on doing it, which doesn't use type families. < 1280201729 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does use multi-param typeclasses. < 1280201750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it was probably from before type families were invented, or at least brought to haskell < 1280201770 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you're right. < 1280201824 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually discovered a more concise way to compute arithmetic at compile-time, and even works on Floats! < 1280201833 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check it out: 2 + 2 < 1280201916 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, should I switch to using Vala for everything? < 1280201927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that relies on constant subexpression elimination < 1280201940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION deliberately screws up the name of the optimisation to confuse those who rely on acronyms < 1280201975 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1280201979 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QZUT < 1280202030 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an ancronym for that? < 1280202030 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quasi-quoating Zygote Under Trial < 1280202056 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelled correctly. :) < 1280202058 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1280202061 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KUUACBEPFO < 1280202064 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1280202066 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1280202069 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XRZNHXKJ < 1280202073 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1280202074 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1280202077 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATXU < 1280202111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this an esolang name creation program? < 1280202120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kwjibo Underlined Urban Anachronic Concurrent Bleating Entertaining Programmatic Flying Organ < 1280202132 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a tyrant!" Xerxes uttered. < 1280202157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like the sort of thought process that lead to the naming of HOMESPRING < 1280202176 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could certainly use it for that. Or just any acronym in general. < 1280202177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xylophonic Restricted Zero-Noise High-Xanthine Kanji'd Jeans < 1280202194 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha. what? < 1280202206 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1280202209 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZK < 1280202219 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZK kills < 1280202223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zouth Korea. < 1280202224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME < 1280202229 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what that acronym means. < 1280202229 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I <3 "ZK Kills" < 1280202284 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: are you sure you're not a sadist? < 1280202308 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1280202311 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P < 1280202313 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JTMTBNXBSU < 1280202319 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my. < 1280202348 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show simpleacro < 1280202349 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1280202361 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. my naive Haskell implementation. < 1280202392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese Tritium Manufacturing -- Tritium Beams Not X-Rays, But Sun Ursines! < 1280202419 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hahaha < 1280202423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Rays/rays/ < 1280202470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 simpleacro < 1280202488 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would eventually like to weight it towards commonly used starting letters < 1280202492 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then rename it to acro < 1280202506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah; half the fun is coming up with words for X. :P < 1280202508 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tohugh the X's and Q's present a challenge. < 1280202546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i think i found the original blog post: http://conal.net/blog/posts/semantic-editor-combinators/ < 1280202607 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"semantic editor combinators"..? that's like a mix of enterprise and academic < 1280202688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that post was greate. < 1280202700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So greate that great gains an extra letter. < 1280202766 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way I can imagine weighting a random process is simply adding more occurances of higher weighted elements in "pick" list < 1280202770 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there another way? < 1280202851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1280202954 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if there are any encryption algorithms that turn a string into turning machine code that, if run, prints the original string < 1280202957 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1280203007 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could imagine that you could go from string to UTM code that prints the string to UTM code that runs the UTM code that prints the string to ... < 1280203017 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :down arbitrary numbers of levels < 1280203032 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd obfuscate the hell out of it < 1280203065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Data.List; main = do r = randomIO; let { pick = find ((r<=).fst) [(0.2, 'a'), (0.8, 'b'), (1.0, 'c')]; print pick < 1280203067 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really should put some of these puzzles up on my webpage < 1280203072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1280203078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Data.List; main = do r = randomIO; let { pick = find ((r<=).fst) [(0.2, 'a'), (0.8, 'b'), (1.0, 'c')]}; print pick < 1280203121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Data.List; main = do r <- randomIO; let { pick = find ((r<=).fst) [(0.2, 'a'), (0.8, 'b'), (1.0, 'c')]}; print pick < 1280203132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1280203159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Data.List; main = do r <- randomIO; let { pick = find ((r<=).fst) [(0.2 :: Double, 'a'), (0.8, 'b'), (1.0, 'c')]}; print pick < 1280203162 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just (0.2,'a') < 1280203165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Data.List; main = do r <- randomIO; let { pick = find ((r<=).fst) [(0.2 :: Double, 'a'), (0.8, 'b'), (1.0, 'c')]}; print pick < 1280203168 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just (1.0,'c') < 1280203186 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1280203197 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I follow. < 1280203205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be safer to make the last one slightly larger than 1.0 if that can actually be a value of r < 1280203212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm not sure) < 1280203223 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's find out < 1280203238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it would be very rare in any case < 1280203378 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; import Data.List; main = do x <- sequence . repeat $ randomIO; print $ find (==1.0) x < 1280203413 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... do I need to make 1.0 :: Double? < 1280203421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280203427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had that problem too < 1280203450 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; import Data.List; main = do x <- sequence . repeat $ randomIO; print $ find (==(1.0::Double)) x < 1280203457 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input.10171.hs: out of memory (requested 8388608 bytes) < 1280203476 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I am no closer to truly knowing, I guess. :P < 1280203486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. the first action never ends. < 1280203494 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm? < 1280203522 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence . repeat won't lazily traverse? < 1280203526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence in the IO monad is _not_ lazy < 1280203530 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1280203540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = do r <- randomIO; if r >= (1.0 :: Double) then print r else main < 1280203564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have little hope of getting an answer, anyhow :D < 1280203565 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes. I always come up with a non-recursive solution, even when it's simpler. < 1280203587 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what exactly is the probability of 1.0 occuring? < 1280203601 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in purely mathematical terms. It likely depends on the pseudo-random algorithm. < 1280203617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1280203638 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...does EgoBot not impose a time-limit? o_o? < 1280203648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1280203660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't say anything if it times out < 1280203711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let r = undefined :: Double in (floatRadix r, floatDigits r, floatRange r) < 1280203712 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2,53,(-1021,1024)) < 1280203715 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mathematically there is not a finite number of elements. Can you calculate probability in such a case? < 1280203751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like 64 bits, 53 for mantissa, 11 for exponent < 1280203760 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, I like that your Double value was an undefined. :) < 1280203798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those functions are not supposed to look at the value :) < 1280203821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let r = undefined :: Double in isIEEE r < 1280203823 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1280203823 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. it does make sense. < 1280203899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if there is a single representation of 1.0, we may guess it cannot be more than about 1/2^53 probability, or something like that < 1280203899 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....if isIEEE ignores its argument... why does it take one? < 1280203911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_assuming_ the random instance actually uses all bits < 1280203918 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 2^53 < 1280203919 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9007199254740992 < 1280203930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is no other way to tell it what type to check... < 1280203939 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isIEEE :: Double ? < 1280203941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t iEEE < 1280203949 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where isIEEE is a method somewhere. < 1280203949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1280203954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t isIEEE < 1280203956 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isIEEE :: (RealFloat a) => a -> Bool < 1280203976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those others were also RealFloat methods < 1280203983 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be isIEEE :: (RealFloat a) => Bool < 1280203993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's impossible < 1280204009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a doesn't occur on the right side - no way to find out what it is < 1280204017 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....oh right < 1280204047 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot maxBound and such all return values of type (T a) => a < 1280204088 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I suppose some implementation of RealFloat /might/ need to inspect the value to determine EEEness? < 1280204099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no < 1280204112 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know much about floating point number standards. < 1280204123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that function says whether the _type_ of the value is an IEEE implementation < 1280204169 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if your implementor is EVIL. and has some values that are IEEE implementations and others that are not... :) < 1280204182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it should probably answer False < 1280204439 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Observation: < 1280204444 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is extremely difficult to play in 13/8 < 1280204469 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, 7/8+6/8, as it were. < 1280204482 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is really 3/8+4/8+6/8 < 1280204495 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course 6/8 is always implied to be 3/8+3/8, so it's 3/8+4/8+3/8+3/8 < 1280204588 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't that really just < 1280204614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hm, after checking both the Haskell 98 and Haskell 2010 reports i cannot actually see that it says the values _have_ to be ignored < 1280204654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Observation: polymeter is not commonly done in rock music. But it is awesome when done. < 1280204677 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1+1+1)/(1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1)+(1+1+1+1)/(1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1)+(1+1+1)/(1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1)+(1+1+1)/(1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1) < 1280204680 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1280204704 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to make it explicit < 1280204796 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1280204808 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a very cheap but effective way to obfuscate programs < 1280204816 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translate numbers into huge sub-expressions < 1280206236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; import Data.List; import System.IO.Unsafe; main = do x <- foldr ((unsafeInterleaveIO .) . (liftM2 (:))) (return []) . repeat $ randomIO; print $ find (>=(0.999::Double)) x < 1280206239 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 0.9993377110220812 < 1280206248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles not so innocently < 1280206265 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280206413 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What that program even does? Random double from interval [0.999,1)? < 1280206423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t foldr ((System.IO.Unsafe.unsafeInterleaveIO .) . (Control.Monad.liftM2 (:))) (return []) < 1280206424 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr ((System.IO.Unsafe.unsafeInterleaveIO .) . (Control.Monad.liftM2 (:))) (return []) :: [IO < 1280206452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, EgoBot, you were _not_ supposed to split that into several lines < 1280206469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: well presumably that's the effect < 1280206496 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280206803 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280206834 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280206834 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280206834 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1280206841 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280206841 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1280206890 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 270 seconds < 1280206895 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280206986 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280206987 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280206994 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280206994 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207051 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207052 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207052 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207052 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207053 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207055 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207056 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207056 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207056 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207057 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207058 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207058 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207058 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207059 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207060 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207060 0 :rodgort`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207132 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :ski!~slj@c-e812e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207132 0 :rodgort`!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207190 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207192 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207193 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207193 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207194 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207196 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207197 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207198 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207198 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207199 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207201 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207201 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207202 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207203 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207203 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207204 0 :rodgort`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207333 0 :augur_!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :ski!~slj@c-e812e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207333 0 :rodgort`!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207400 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207400 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207401 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207402 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207402 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207402 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207403 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207405 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207406 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207406 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207407 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207408 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207409 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207410 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207410 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207411 0 :rodgort`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207411 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 277 seconds < 1280207482 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ as a first language: Bad idea? < 1280207491 0 :sshc!~sshc@174-19-192-162.bois.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207667 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :77CAAZ09I < 1280207670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: awful idea < 1280207677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, run in the other direction, as fast as you can < 1280207698 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :jix_!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :augur_!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :ski!~slj@c-e812e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207698 0 :rodgort`!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207719 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So another friend wants to learn a language < 1280207738 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He seems to believe his choices are down to C, C++, and C# < 1280207756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207756 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207757 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207758 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207758 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207759 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207759 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207760 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207762 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207763 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207763 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207764 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207764 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207764 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207764 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207765 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207766 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207766 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207767 0 :rodgort`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207767 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207768 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207768 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207768 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280207769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: there are a lot of decent languages whose names don't start with C < 1280207769 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He wants to start with Active Worlds programming, but wants to be able to use those skills later < 1280207831 0 :Scott!47cfa162@gateway/web/freenode/session JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207839 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Scott < 1280207841 0 :Scott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1280207860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're in the middle of a huge netsplit atm < 1280207866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so most people who "should" be here aren't < 1280207899 0 :Scott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :12WABDH22 < 1280207912 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1280207950 0 :rodgort`!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :ski!~slj@c-e812e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :augur_!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :jix_!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :atrapado!~roper@46.188.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-205-198.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207950 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207976 0 :12WABDH22!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1280207976 0 :12WABDH22!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1280207979 0 :12WABDH22!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1280207979 0 :12WABDH22!47cfa162@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.207.161.98 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280207979 0 :12WABDH22!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :scda < 1280207979 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that name in use? < 1280207992 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check the other tab, it might say something if it is < 1280208000 0 :Muhhfukin!468c1870@gateway/web/freenode/session JOIN :#esoteric < 1280208013 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280208014 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280208015 0 :Muhhfukin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1280208015 0 :Muhhfukin!468c1870@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.140.24.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280208016 0 :Muhhfukin!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280208048 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, now that people are back, would it be appropriate to ask after a good first language for scda? < 1280208063 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280208076 0 :Jackson_C!468c1870@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.140.24.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280208083 0 :Jackson_C!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1280208088 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1280208109 0 :Jackson_C!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280208114 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, please do not try to convince people here to play with AW < 1280208139 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes ais523  < 1280208145 0 :CSharpJackson!468c1870@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.140.24.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280208147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unpokes him or herself < 1280208186 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1280208193 0 :CSharpJackson!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1280208194 0 :CSharpJackson!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1280208195 0 :CSharpJackson!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1280208279 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so guys < 1280208286 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive heard lots of different opinions on which language to learn < 1280208295 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been told to do C, C++, and C# < 1280208301 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from different people < 1280208317 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no prior programming experience < 1280208335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is a decent language for computer games development (as in console and PC games), but not really for anything else; it's also an awful language as your first language < 1280208349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is not a bad language for a first language. < 1280208359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# is a somewhat poor one, but much less so than C++. < 1280208361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is mostly good for very high-performance or low-level programming, something which you might not need to use much in future; but it makes a good first language < 1280208380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is just plain an awful language in general, which manages to be useful in spite of being awful. < 1280208383 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's high performance because the programmer has to micromanage more though, right? < 1280208405 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in regards to C, i mean < 1280208406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C# is Windows-specific, and a good language choice for things which are inherently Windows-only, but there aren't many of those around, and you'll generally want something more portable if you want other programmers to actually be able to use it < 1280208409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scda: yes < 1280208429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but part of the reason it's good for a new programmer is that if you don't know how the micromanagement goes, you're likely to screw it up even when it's done automatically < 1280208448 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been told Python won't be able to handle what I would like to be able to do eventually < 1280208456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like driving a car; automatic transmissions are nicer to use than manuals, but if you don't know how a manual works, and don't have experience with it, you won't be using the automatic as well as you could be < 1280208496 0 :CSharpJackson!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scda, if ur programming in AW, Python probably shouldn't be your start < 1280208526 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1280208537 0 :CSharpJackson!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wrapper < 1280208541 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It .. works < 1280208542 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly < 1280208544 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1280208546 0 :CSharpJackson!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it? < 1280208551 0 :CSharpJackson!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made by whome? < 1280208560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is not a language I'd say is good for new programmers; it kinda leaves you rather ignorant of what the machine is doing. < 1280208561 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember I had the bot at a decent level before I was fired < 1280208567 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok pik < 1280208573 0 :CSharpJackson!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.< Don't say fired < 1280208586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it has some poor design decisions here and there that probably seem a bit weird. < 1280208587 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...C then? < 1280208603 0 :CSharpJackson!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# < 1280208604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the major issue with C as a first language is that you end up trying to use it for things it's bad at < 1280208612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as long as you're willing to move onto something else, it's a good learning language < 1280208624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are certain to blow things up in C. But yeah; C is good if you're wanting to actually learn how things work. < 1280208636 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldnt mind learning it as a language if there were projects i could do in it < 1280208636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSharpJackson: C# has massive standard libraries, that tends to make it bad for learning offhand < 1280208644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSharpJackson: Ugh, don't start him off with anything with objects. < 1280208655 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean, i would like to be able to use what i learn < 1280208658 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as im learning it < 1280208664 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of mindless exercises < 1280208664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scda: And there certainly are things you can use C for. < 1280208672 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :practical things i would use? < 1280208673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is bad at things requiring lots of text processing, generally < 1280208682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's decent for numerical work, very good for low-level programming < 1280208686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the most commonly used language. < 1280208690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and good for modifying existing programs written in C < 1280208692 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how much text processing there is in an AW bot < 1280208698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of which there are quite a lot, for the reason pikhq gives) < 1280208750 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you give some examples of what C would be bad t? < 1280208753 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at < 1280208792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the time that the speed of your program is less important than the speed of writing your program. < 1280208824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creating complex GUIs; very large programs (it can be done, but it isn't pretty); very simple programs which could be faster written in another language < 1280208829 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just takes a while to write? < 1280208844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything which doesn't really follow a set pattern (because memory management is harder) < 1280208853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has a lot of micromanagement required that most other languages take care of for you. < 1280208866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly based around the usage of memory. < 1280208867 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't sound very appealing, lol < 1280208868 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ doesn't help with the micromanagement really < 1280208875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's even worse in C++ < 1280208883 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scda, but you learn how to micromanage, and what's fundamentally going on < 1280208887 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can write bots in C < 1280208890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently so that in C, at least there's a decent chance of getting it right first time < 1280208894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C++ does exactly the same thing as C, but heaps on worthless features. < 1280208909 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL [except maybe 1] of the code on wiki.activeworlds.com is in C < 1280208916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C++ is an octopus made by bolting legs onto a dog" < 1280208917 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that helps convince you >.> < 1280208925 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolol < 1280208929 0 :CSharpJackson!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1280208949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scda: Anyways, half the point of *knowing* the micromanagement in C is that it helps you know (some of) the costs and benefits of doing things in other languages. < 1280208975 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1280208992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's possible to manage a memory leak even in C# or Java if you don't know what's going on < 1280209008 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my only beef so far with writing code is the workout my right pinky is getting reaching [] and \ :P < 1280209013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's actually pretty easy to do in C# or Java if you don't understand how it's doing memory management. < 1280209019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scda: You get used to it. < 1280209031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention null pointer errors < 1280209033 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ive been doing a lot of the beginner exercises < 1280209035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll also get pretty decent at typing things up on the number row. < 1280209038 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all tha fun cmd stuff lol < 1280209048 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include is burned into my retinas < 1280209049 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1280209050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pretty much all programming languages use a bunch of punctuation marks < 1280209057 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scda, it's going to be different in C < 1280209070 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include I think? < 1280209073 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i already got some books for C as we were talking < 1280209076 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280209104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scda: The major thing to keep in mind, in *any* programming language, is that your computer is freaking stupid. < 1280209106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: stdio.h is a lot saner than iostd.h < 1280209109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also more micromanagey < 1280209115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*iostream.h < 1280209117 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iostd.h? < 1280209118 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1280209119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ omits the .h at the end < 1280209129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the file's still called iostream.h, generally speaking < 1280209164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you tell it to, say, write over your function, it will *gleefully* try to do so. And then crash (if you're lucky) < 1280209206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a thread on comp.lang.c about what the worst effect of undefined behaviour that the very experienced C programmers there had ever seen < 1280209223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C just makes this a bit more obvious, because you actually can write over your function by accident in some C environments. < 1280209227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the winner was someone who managed to somehow actually call the format executable, or maybe a copy of it in memory < 1280209236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it stopped at the "do you really want to format?" prompt < 1280209276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(int i = 0; i != INT_MAX; i++)main[i]=0; < 1280209279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION winces for having written that code < 1280209302 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would happen if you, say, had int[5] main; < 1280209306 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that not compile? < 1280209321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles but segfaults on loading, in most compilers < 1280209324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would not compile; main is already an int main() < 1280209328 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1280209334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: only if main already exists < 1280209344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's the only definition of main in your program, most compilers let you get away with it < 1280209350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although gcc spouts a warning, if you've got them turned on < 1280209353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah. < 1280209362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll segfault on loading. < 1280209378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the winning entry at the first ever IOCCC set main to an array of shorts filled with machine code < 1280209397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had to specifically ban literal machine code in future contests (by insisting on theoretical cross-platformness) < 1280209446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays, compilers are often better at distinguishing code from data < 1280209451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will segfault if you try to run data < 1280209454 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1280209455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally for security reasons < 1280210060 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear everyone: How can I convince people that Hackiki is the greatest thing since sliced bread? < 1280210290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Give people Hackiki and sliced bread. They cannot deny it. < 1280210301 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1280210310 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sliced meat is pretty damn modular < 1280210313 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bread < 1280210323 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hackiki is super-expandable! < 1280210346 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(1) malloc(sizeof(char)); < 1280210361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/malloc/GC_malloc/ >:D < 1280210369 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC_malloc? < 1280210377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, GC_MALLOC < 1280210387 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know what that is either < 1280210387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though GC_malloc exists, you shouldn't use it. < 1280210394 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, if you stick smoked meat inside sliced bread, you have the best meal ever < 1280210396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the allocator from Boehm GC. < 1280210408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not the best meal ever. < 1280210425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add cheese. And butter. And grill. < 1280210427 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you been to Scwartz's? < 1280210432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Now* you have the best meal ever. < 1280210445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1280210454 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1280210497 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't quite grok malloc < 1280210502 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It asks the OS for memory? < 1280210562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It assigns memory from the heap to fulfill your requests. < 1280210578 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how does it do that? < 1280210581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the heap doesn't have enough space to fulfill those requests, it asks the OS for more memory. < 1280210601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It keeps track of what is used and unused in the heap. < 1280210612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "unused" means "not yet allocated, or has been freed". < 1280210641 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the OS do? Can the OS call malloc? < 1280210647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1280210671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS offers system calls to increase the size of the heap or grant pages to the process, generally. < 1280210684 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does the OS use heap memory, if that even makes sense? < 1280210710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel has its own heap. < 1280210744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And most likely also a seperate allocator for managing the pages assigned to user processes. < 1280210859 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did the same line of code in AW chat, and scda disappeared < 1280210885 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280210887 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280210891 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1280210892 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280210924 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOM killer get you? < 1280210943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there's a kmalloc, IIRC < 1280210951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does much the same sort of thing malloc does, but obviously a different way < 1280210967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, that's the kernel's allocator for the heap. :) < 1280210970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for use inside the kernel itself < 1280211006 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's two variants of it, the nonatomic variant and atomic variant (which is used depends on flags). < 1280211010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but because I've actually looked into this (for gcc-bf); malloc allocates an unused bit of the heap; if there are no unused bits of the heap of the right size, it asks the kernel to make the heap bigger < 1280211018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally using mmap or sbrk < 1280211035 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's one touch of C++ on this wiki < 1280211042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gcc-bf uses sbrk, which has a rather simple implementation because the heap's at the end of the tape and so is basically infinitely big anyway) < 1280211042 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So subtle it's easy to miss < 1280211047 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I'm hallucinating < 1280211047 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, sbrk for smaller hunks, larger hunks are mmapped straight away without even searching heap. < 1280211059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, different mallocs work differently ofc < 1280211063 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION aims to replace it with C < 1280211065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS even has a syscall with the same semantics of malloc < 1280211075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*same semantics as < 1280211083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you could use to implement malloc directly on DOS < 1280211098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're doing 32-bit DOS. < 1280211123 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some page for gcc-bf? < 1280211137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1280211143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on hold due to me doing other things < 1280211145 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280211162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, because I can't pluck together the courage to write an efficient 64-bit multiply in 8-bit BF < 1280211761 0 :CSharpJackson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280212228 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280212674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280215266 0 :scda!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1280215414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280216138 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language to learn first... basic.. of course! :) < 1280216147 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280216861 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280216937 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280217599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1280217600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280218310 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280218728 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1280220561 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280221502 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280223239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280223273 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h55.30.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280223291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :77CAAZ09I, I find that name suspicious. < 1280223851 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280223921 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280224449 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-240-223.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280224773 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280224991 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280225168 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280225171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, looks like a UUID due to nick collision < 1280225188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, after all, normally number at the start of a nick is invalid < 1280225588 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-238-221.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280226251 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280226298 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280226831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaghwhywillplan9notworkonqemu < 1280227286 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280227348 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280227500 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently sometimes freenode force-renicks users to such odd nicks (apparently to avoid nick collisions). Usually those users quit rather quickly... < 1280227571 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, they appear to be strongly related to netsplits. < 1280227624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a nick collision across a netsplit < 1280227632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where there's a user with a given name on each side? < 1280228300 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280228320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRCnet ircd pre-2.11 used to kill both; that was a favourite technique of people for channel-takeovering, colliding everyone present away. 2.11 just force-renames to user UID. < 1280228371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't such a technique require deliberately causing a netsplit? < 1280228391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that, or then you just wait for one to occur and then take advantage of it. < 1280228428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The split also needs to be long enough, because both sides remember the splitted-off users for a while and keep their names reserved. < 1280228428 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least previous freenode IRCD would kill one of the users (the newer one). < 1280228457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRCnet kills (well, killed) both, in the interests of some semblance of fairness. < 1280228531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ircd 2.11 also lets you do "NICK 0" (after connecting, or as the initial NICK message) to manually rename yourself to your UID, if you don't feel like selecting a nickname. < 1280228577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you can match against UIDs in bans and such, which is somewhat useful because the UIDs start with a server-specific number.) < 1280228600 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280228606 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen what Ircd-seven would do if both sides of netsplit had same nick. Might rename one of the users. < 1280228642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Freenode's method, you could still take over a nick during a netsplit if not for the existence of NickServ < 1280228656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder if if one person's identified and the other isn't, the identified person gets to keep the nick automatically?) < 1280228671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And even the server-specific number has a meaning; the first three digits are the ISO 3166-1 numeric country code of the server. So you can ban all people that use a server in a specific country, if you're feeling countryist.) < 1280228739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It might not want to bother trying to contact NickServ (which might well be splitted off in some third bit of the network) at the moment, instead opting just to rename and let the user sort it out. But this is just a guess. < 1280228774 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server user is on should know if the user is regd or not... < 1280228778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the "identified" statement a umode? < 1280228782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*status < 1280228789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use that rather than asking NickServ < 1280228791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's a flag, right. < 1280228802 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what's your umode? < 1280228808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+i < 1280228826 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, +Ziw here. So that flag at least doesn't display. < 1280228829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just changed it to +iw, I don't know why the w unsets itself < 1280228841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does the +i not mean identified? < 1280228847 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invisible. < 1280228851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ofc < 1280228858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual anti-spambot protection < 1280228864 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+Ziw means TLS INVISIBLE WALLOPS < 1280228873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, identifiedness is shown in the hostname on Freenode < 1280228889 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you have hostname cloaking enabled. < 1280228893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was for a while, although they seem to have changed it < 1280228936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember messages about the server setting some usermode (+E?) when identifying manually to nickserv, but that was before seven. < 1280228950 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If user account has hostname cloaking enabled and one identifies as that account, ircd fakes user disconnecting and immediately reconnecting. < 1280228972 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there was umode in previous software for identify. < 1280228994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dancer docs say +e, so I just remembered the case wrong. (Unless hyperion had changed that from what dancer uses.) < 1280229035 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280229062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, why no love for my silly little language Grasp? I even bothered to hand-draw three example snippets, but no-one commented on my previous blatant self-advertisement here. :/ < 1280229067 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280229094 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1280229117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I saw your edits, but my RSS reader doesn't do image uploads < 1280229169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're missing a lot! There's absolutely horrible penmanship, and lots of blurry leftover eraser cruft. < 1280229343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, your handwriting is... weird. < 1280229456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not perhaps always that bad. < 1280229484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so much bad as... weird. < 1280229496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although my handwriting is a paragon of weirdness. < 1280229517 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And unreadability, come to think of it. < 1280229522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very useful in exams. < 1280229686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do readable (sort-of) and I can do fast, but not both at the same time. < 1280229713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, well I can do neither. < 1280230005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my handwriting used to be quite good < 1280230015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but last time I needed to handwrite something I realised I hadn't in almost a year < 1280230020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it took a while to remember how < 1280230092 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280230151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you do if you need to make scribbles? < 1280230152 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280230160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a text editor, generally < 1280230171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my scribbles are generally of the kind that work quite well in that format < 1280230194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do use pencil and paper sometimes, but mostly for diagrams, so that still doesn't involve actual writing < 1280230238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when I want to think mathematically, I tend to use a text editor, or if all else fails open LyX and do my thinking there < 1280230805 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280230841 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1280231069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because of the scandinavian origin of IRC [, \, ], and ^ were the letters {, |, } and ~ in uppercase. That logic was abandoned in 2.11." Heh, that relic stayed there for quite a while. < 1280231285 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-59.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280231413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought that was actually in the IRC standard < 1280231418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the uppercase punctuation marks thing, that is < 1280231619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is at least in the earlier RFC, 1459. "Because of IRC's scandanavian origin, the characters {}| are considered to be the lower case equivalents of the characters []\, respectively. This is a critical issue when determining the equivalence of two nicknames." < 1280231645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't mention ^/~ thing. Possibly because ~ isn't legal in nicks. < 1280231760 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280231949 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same for UK keyboards. < 1280231965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although ^~ isn't the case on them. < 1280232069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what characters ^~ would be; I don't remember them from the 7-bit Finnish thing. "echo {}|~[]\^ | iconv -f ISO646-FI -t utf-8" just gives "äåö‾ÄÅÖ^" where that thing corresponding to ~ is the upper-line. < 1280232242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for the record, the FI keyboard has the characters {[]} as altgr-7 .. altgr-0, \ as altgr-+ (where + is next to 0), | from altgr-< (where <>| come from a single key to left of z) and ^~ as shift and altgr variants from a dead key to right of å, which itself is to right of p. < 1280232442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bit more two-keys-needed when programming, compared to the UK keymap's separate [{ and ]} keys. (And you put those in the wrong order w.r.t. 7-bit Finnish encoding: []\ should be the uppercase ones, not the base ones.) < 1280232518 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-47-79.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280232678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish SEN 85 02 00 Annex C ("extended Swedish for names") has ^~ → Üü, that's one upper/lowercase pair. And some others use it too. < 1280233258 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280233734 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280234543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280234585 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280234589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO has a rather strict definition of "freely available": http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/index.html "You may print out and retain one printed copy of the PDF file. This printed copy is fully protected by national and international copyright laws, and may not be photocopied or reproduced in any form." < 1280234604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you want to read it online? < 1280234622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they are "a single-user, non-revisable Adobe Acrobat PDF file, to store on your personal computer". < 1280234654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what happens if you have more than one "personal computer". < 1280234698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you explicitly can't have a printout both at work and at home, for example. < 1280234750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and you can't show your copy to anyone, they need to use their own. < 1280234793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, perhaps some common-sense copyright limitations intervene at some point here.) < 1280234868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the actual click-through license page has more verbosity. "Under no circumstances may the electronic file you are licensing be copied, transferred, or placed on a network of any sort without the authorization of the copyright owner." < 1280234891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our home directories are on a NFS share, so I guess I can't put it there either. < 1280235000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you actually buying an ISO standard document? < 1280235155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, those are freely available ones. < 1280235169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mind boggles < 1280235188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the license terms for not-freely-available ones would be even more strict. < 1280235424 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h92.4.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280235471 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280236158 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280236187 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280236245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280236334 0 :David!~David@162.84.95.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280236363 0 :David!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest89071 < 1280236428 0 :Guest89071!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280236461 0 :madk!~David@162.84.95.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237071 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237072 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237072 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237073 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237073 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237074 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237074 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237075 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237076 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237077 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237078 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237079 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237081 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237081 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1280237292 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237292 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237293 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237293 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237294 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237294 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237295 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237295 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237297 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237298 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237299 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237300 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237450 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237450 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237451 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237451 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237452 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237452 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237453 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237453 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237454 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237454 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237455 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237455 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237456 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237456 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237457 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237457 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237459 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237460 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237461 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237462 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237463 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237464 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280237670 0 :lulinha!~dummy@189.115.10.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280237694 0 :lulinha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1280237776 0 :i__!~none@unaffiliated/i--/x-3618442 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280239356 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280239830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do there not seem to be any compiler languages that can be used for application development without being listed in the DSM (aside from perhaps C++, but probably not). < 1280241470 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280241564 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280242810 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280243265 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1280243663 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280244335 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey! < 1280244418 0 :boily!~boily@poste205-171.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1280244746 0 :i__!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280244865 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280244873 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1280244881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280244912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, Phantom_Hoover's mind control device must be working < 1280244935 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laugh maniacally < 1280244941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/h/hs/ < 1280244947 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might explain the sudden cravings for blood < 1280244969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a slight side effect, i hear < 1280245019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, think yourself lucky that the signal holds to the inverse square law. < 1280245040 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1280245049 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders < 1280245061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280245165 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it on a few people in Europe, but that's all I'm allowed to tell you. < 1280245215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look in the news for the small new breakaway republic of Phantomia < 1280245469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : isn't the "identified" statement a umode? < 1280245489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _used_ to have a +e flag but it disappeared when they switched ircd < 1280245528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he left < 1280245783 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280245999 0 :77CAAZ09I!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1280246007 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1280247071 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who left? < 1280247079 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ais. < 1280249535 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1280250441 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aughugaghghghghghghgggghghhhhh < 1280250476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, don't _do_ that then. < 1280250525 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, attend estimation meetings? < 1280250541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i avoid estimations all the time < 1280250581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't estimate my way out of a paper bag < 1280250617 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Henceforth, all stories are 3 points. < 1280250647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that means. < 1280250672 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, if you someday find yourself on an "agile team", you'll find out. < 1280250704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sheer meaninglessness that it means will shine through. < 1280250738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1280250852 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides he wants the "Conquering Norway for Dummies" book from Casey & Andy. < 1280250877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No offence, oerjan. < 1280250991 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9 is taking its time... < 1280251027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on my zsh times, it's been installing for 25 minutes. < 1280251231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this explains why all the shop windows are full of dummies lately < 1280251241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously they got it slightly wrong < 1280251386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1280251395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your papers must be interesting. < 1280251400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`norwegian hello < 1280251407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swedish hello < 1280251411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for testing) < 1280251416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish hello < 1280251416 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280251418 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellu < 1280251421 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellu < 1280251425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!norwegian < 1280251429 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!norwegian hello < 1280251436 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skål < 1280251447 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relet, not interested in what "hello" is. < 1280251449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: "agile team"? < 1280251467 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, am I like the only developer here? < 1280251468 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relet "Country conquered by dummies again" < 1280251470 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280251482 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That CAN'T be right. < 1280251570 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: do you just mean agile development? < 1280251589 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've worked in an office that used it, though I was sort of outside the process < 1280251611 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Mostly -- I get the impression that most development is "agile process" nowadays. < 1280251619 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully < 1280251631 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the core principles of agile development are about 5000x better than waterfall < 1280251677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1280251678 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On paper, I might agree. < 1280251709 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any difference in quality of the end product, practice. < 1280251725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1280251728 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Development? < 1280251745 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugs tend to be better prioritized in my exprience < 1280251749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're having academic discussions on software development? < 1280251752 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280251760 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in #esoteric < 1280251762 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you expect? < 1280251768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not esoteric at all! < 1280251779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even off-topic in an esoteric way! < 1280251797 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm referring only to software development that takes place on JUPITER. < 1280251827 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What languages are popular on Jupiter? < 1280251838 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# < 1280251962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph. < 1280251969 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, IMO, for every bug that gets fixed faster with an agile process, more bugs and more potential for bugs are introduced by slapping new features in, in the short-sighted way that "fitting the task into a single sprint" requires you do it. < 1280251980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Jovian software development is identical to that on Earth? < 1280252041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1280252060 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I would think a good development house will allow someone to engage in a multi-sprint project < 1280252639 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some places agility seems to translate mostly to lots of strange playground-style games in meetings; more often than not involving some sort of pieces of paper or other props. < 1280252666 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you build an origami Turing machine in meetings? < 1280252705 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm looking at you, Planning Poker.) < 1280252924 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, we have a nice Web 2.0 in-house app for playing Planning Poker. I haven't used it yet, because I attend the meetings in-person and don't have an iPhone, so I use a set of real Planning Poker cards, and I show my estimate to the Scrum Master, who enters it by proxy. < 1280252950 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You like that? < 1280252951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like the "ScrumMaster" term, it's so videogamey. < 1280252961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must defeat all the eight Scrum Masters before you can continue! < 1280252968 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I didn't even think of that. < 1280252986 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just like a Dungeon Master -- except for Scrum! < 1280252987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have two recordings from the webcast of the "basics of software engineering" course, where this local agility hype-guy -- c.f. http://www.agilefant.org/ -- sings (and accompanies with guitar) two different agile software development -themed lyric-swaps of some well-known songs. < 1280253021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAARUGBY < 1280253046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GETITAWAYGETITAWAY < 1280253240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC, he can't really sing.) < 1280253667 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280253795 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-153-53.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280254291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the love of god, why, *WHY* does Firefox have an accelerometer? < 1280254312 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FOR SPEED < 1280254341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That actually made me laugh in real life. < 1280254408 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey : Accelerometers don't measure speed < 1280254413 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's right in the name < 1280254556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, they measure the derivative of speed, though. < 1280254589 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The derivative and the quantity don't have any obvious relationship, though. < 1280254595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they can be used to work out one's speed given continuous data and a know speed at a known time. < 1280254605 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An object can have different speeds despite having the same acceleration < 1280254606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And the ideal accelerometer, which you of course have. < 1280254607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/know /known / < 1280254624 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But speed is dependant on the referential D: < 1280254665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just assume that when the user's looking at some particularly insightful site (youcanhascheeseburger?), he's not going anywhere; that gives you a reference speed of zero. < 1280254869 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280254968 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280255271 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! < 1280256506 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, only one unit test failed this time. Awesome. < 1280256803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just test only for tautologies, and you won't have so many problems with failing tests. < 1280258186 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280258232 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEW HACKIKI PLAN (that involves no actual work on Hackiki, since I consider it "done"): Establish Hackiki's supremacy through invasive advertising! < 1280258236 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :HackikiDotOrg < 1280258253 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280258419 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes friends, Hackiki is truly the wiki of choice for the modern Wiki advocate, especially one looking, say, for a wiki on which they could safely run interpreters for esoteric programming languages! < 1280258464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heartily endorse this product and/or service! < 1280258544 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let this non-actor unpaid unbiased spokesperson influence your opinions! < 1280258604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true! I am e) all of the above! < 1280258646 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be treason for me to create a Hackiki replacement for the esolang wiki? It would actually be extremely appropriate ... < 1280258742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should definitely do it < 1280258745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice < 1280258805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hackiki is the one where pages are arbitrary executables, isn't it? < 1280258832 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackikiDotOrg: I think not! < 1280258879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackikiDotOrg, is Hackiki resistant to fork bombs? < 1280258920 0 :madk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1280258944 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1280258962 0 :madk!~David@162.84.95.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280258987 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, there's no way to indicate evil grinning. < 1280259008 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1280259017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackikiDotOrg, and this doesn't strike you as the biggest security risk EVER? < 1280259057 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Hackiki is properly sandboxed, like HackEgo < 1280259060 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I've been running HackEgo and Hackiki for months, and people have attempted to hack both of them. < 1280259078 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, it may still be the biggest JUSTIFIED security risk ever X-P < 1280259085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION re-reads his original question and gets hit in the face by an egg < 1280259112 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you thought my "yes" was a "no" :P < 1280259113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run :(){ :|:& };: < 1280259115 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280259234 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't be confused, however: It's not resistant to DoSing at all :P < 1280259390 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda hard to imagine how anything even vaguely similar to Hackiki could be resistant to DoSing :( < 1280259445 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, even a wiki that doesn't run code is not resistant to DoS. (DDoS at least) < 1280259488 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can be resistant to non-distributed DoS by just being a better machine than the attacker. < 1280259508 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Hackiki makes it possible for a small amount of action by an attacker to produce a (relatively) large (though fixed) amount of action by the server. < 1280259646 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it be made permanent? < 1280259701 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :(a(:^)*S):^ | Should the esolangs community have a Hackiki wiki? (Wiki capable of running nearly-arbitrary code) Vote: http://poll.fm/23p9l | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1280259706 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relet: Can what be made permanent? < 1280259728 0 :HackikiDotOrg!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor-W < 1280259785 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the damage.. I guess you could add an idle loop on the main page, but DoS is only interesting if the target is high profile, or the damage is permanent. < 1280259849 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. I suppose that depends on your definition. All changes to the filesystem are trivially revertable, and DoSing will never be capable of producing a process that doesn't kill itself in 30 seconds. < 1280259873 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, a permanently DoSing box could do "permanent" damage in that it could constantly DoS. < 1280260092 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anywho, everybody vote and then we'll decide :P < 1280260100 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't voted because I have an obvious bias. < 1280260102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vote yes < 1280260109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking yes < 1280260120 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vote yes in the poll in the topic, not in the channel :P < 1280260128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what the fuk < 1280260129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ck < 1280260132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280260148 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"polldaddy" < 1280260165 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google search for "online polls" or something X-P < 1280260168 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way too lazy to write my own. < 1280260237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe "too sane", if you're talking about writing a voting service just for this poll < 1280260254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1280260255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis < 1280260256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis < 1280260256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis < 1280260257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis < 1280260258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis < 1280260259 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis < 1280260260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis < 1280260263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what else < 1280260310 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else IS there? < 1280260328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280260330 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the growth of a cayley graph's balls with the usual presentation metric is superlinear, then CA's on it can't be positively expansive < 1280260420 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1280260420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the shift dynamics, and the usual topology for the cayley graph < 1280260436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also < 1280260438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis penis < 1280260439 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis penis < 1280260441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis penis < 1280260443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis penis < 1280260445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis penis < 1280260448 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of positively expansive ... < 1280260449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now maybe some sleep < 1280260467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol i didn't even realize that < 1280260472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the cayley graph's balls part < 1280260481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean their growth < 1280260510 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also maybe it should be CAa < 1280260596 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the poll is conclusive < 1280260631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dynamical system (X, T) is positively expansive if there's an e > 0 such that for all x != y both in X there's a t \in T such that d(xt, yt) > e < 1280260648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure definition exchange catches on if i do it for long enough < 1280260685 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Two votes seems sufficient to me :P < 1280260702 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Everyone else must have chosen not to vote < 1280260707 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably. < 1280260720 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me start a poll to debate whether the poll should be linked to from the wiki :P < 1280260807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean port it over and swap it out? < 1280260831 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace the current MediaWiki with a Hackiki < 1280260836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280260840 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dump the current wiki, do whatever porting is necessary to put all the content into Hackiki, then replace it. < 1280260884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so but then i started wondering if swapping out was just putting it online, not sure why, < 1280260887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. The C preprocessor is *actually* Turing-complete. < 1280260892 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ??? < 1280260894 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1280260895 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No recursion! < 1280260898 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :through recursive includes? < 1280260901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: #include __FILE__ < 1280260908 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *brain explodes* < 1280260910 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That WORKS? < 1280260911 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Niiiice. < 1280260915 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280260924 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macro replacement is allowed to work on filenames < 1280260926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone implemented the Game of Life in it. < 1280260932 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I should say required < 1280260960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zeroindexed.com/cpp-conway < 1280260984 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid *sobs* < 1280260988 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get that man a cookie < 1280261002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It halts when the C preprocessor maxes out its recursion depth. < 1280261023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it doesn't TCO. < 1280261033 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, it turns out that the writers of the GNU cpp [...] neglected to do tail-call optimization if an #include is the last directive in the file. < 1280261040 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1280261041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I noticed you on the FlightGear forums. < 1280261041 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280261047 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine that! < 1280261155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still find that kind of thing weird, for some reason. < 1280261214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1280261219 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not actually turing complete < 1280261229 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since its state is finite < 1280261244 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not limited by the environment around it < 1280261245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could readily be extended to being infinite. < 1280261260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm... No, wait, couldn't. < 1280261266 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming no limit on length of identifiers? < 1280261287 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(use unary CELL_xxxxx, etc) < 1280261295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the identifiers themselves are not generated, but rather hardcoded. < 1280261309 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use pasting? < 1280261332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's merely C-complete, not Turing complete. < 1280261360 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1280261361 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't given up hope! < 1280261375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait a second. < 1280261399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*There is no requirement that the numbers offered by the C preprocessor are bound.* < 1280261408 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I suspect lambda calculus will be easier to do than a CA. < 1280261420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there not? < 1280261421 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a 2D CA like life, i mean. < 1280261430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: None at all.. < 1280261440 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1280261446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the preprocessor offers reasonable (basic) arithmetic. < 1280261448 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to do it then < 1280261454 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since an unbounded integer can code arbitrary data < 1280261475 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the preprocessor even grok numbers? It mostly does strings (which can store numbers in unary, of course) < 1280261476 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you run into the macro expansion problem < 1280261485 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hmm... < 1280261535 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I see it does understand numbers, to some degree. < 1280261580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does do numbers. < 1280261837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, just wow. A hot air balloon just passed above. Like 20 meters above the roof. < 1280261870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it went down some hundred meters away, behind a low hill. Didn't get the camera until it was already over the next house < 1280262636 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, pikhq: I totally think it can be done. Macros can expand to other macros, and those get expanded immediately, ... or am I misremembering? < 1280262651 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes, but not recursively < 1280262657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Macros can expand to other macros, but you can't expand to *defining* other macros. < 1280262658 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmm < 1280262661 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any such expansion must be finite < 1280262697 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can do a cyclic tag system. < 1280262702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, it's necessarily not-recursive. < 1280262724 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.... hmmmmmm. < 1280262749 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other issue is that you cannot assign the value of a calculation to a variable < 1280262752 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll ponder it for a bit. < 1280262767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you can do is branch based on it < 1280262788 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If there are a finite number of possibilities, that shouldn't be a problem: assign at the branch. < 1280262789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC-ness in CPP will pretty much end up being very much like lambda calculus. < 1280262804 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it must be capable of infinite calculation to be TC < 1280262837 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, but that;'s what the recursive include is for. At each step, there are a finite number of possible replacements. < 1280262876 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like, in a TM, there a finite number of states. < 1280262882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1280262884 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a TM has infinite states < 1280262895 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the total state includes the entire tape < 1280262911 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the word "configuration" for that. The state is the state of its state machine transition table thing. < 1280262918 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, fine, configuration < 1280262925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are still limited to finite configurations in CPP < 1280262937 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you cannot take the result of a calculation and store it for later < 1280262953 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*store it for use in later calculations < 1280262955 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280262983 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you can do is branch, which is necessary finite < 1280262996 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need at least one infinite dimension to have TC-ness; CPP has 0 < 1280263018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, two and 1, respectively; I forgot about the program itself < 1280263019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Numbers are unbound. < 1280263045 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As are lengths of identifiers, unless I'm mistaken. < 1280263046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, rather, not necessarily bound) < 1280263061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but there's finite identifiers. < 1280263085 0 :madk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1280263254 0 :madk!~David@162.84.95.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280263285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280263389 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1280264771 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280264806 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'aww no new votes. < 1280264986 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280265848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265849 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265851 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265853 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265853 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265853 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265854 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265854 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265854 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265855 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265855 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265855 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265857 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265859 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265860 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265861 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265861 0 :rodgort`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265862 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265862 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265862 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265863 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280265863 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266001 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h92.4.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-59.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-205-198.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :atrapado!~roper@46.188.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :jix_!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :ski!~slj@c-e812e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266002 0 :rodgort`!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266072 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266073 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266073 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266074 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266074 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266075 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266078 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266079 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266080 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266080 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266080 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266080 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266081 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266081 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266081 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266081 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266082 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266083 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266084 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266085 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266085 0 :rodgort`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266136 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h92.4.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-59.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :rodgort`!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :ski!~slj@c-e812e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :jix_!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :atrapado!~roper@46.188.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-205-198.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266136 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266195 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266198 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266202 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266204 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266204 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266204 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266205 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266205 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266205 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266205 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266206 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266206 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266207 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266208 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266209 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266210 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266210 0 :rodgort`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266211 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266212 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266212 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266212 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266213 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280266270 0 :chickenzilla!~chicken@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h92.4.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-59.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-205-198.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :atrapado!~roper@46.188.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :jix_!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :ski!~slj@c-e812e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266270 0 :rodgort`!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266339 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maaaaan Freenode < 1280266344 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep it together! < 1280266400 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bibble < 1280266406 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was banned from ##C < 1280266410 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1280266457 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Whyzzat? < 1280266458 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: How? < 1280266474 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for disconnecting too often. No one said anything, there was no message < 1280266483 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just when I try to /j ##C, it says I'm banned < 1280266489 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Also vote in my poll (I don't care which way you vote, I just want to know whether it's worth my time) < 1280266516 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, as in a separate one? < 1280266524 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1280266534 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the /topic < 1280266562 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280266579 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voted < 1280266593 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so anonymous, I have no idea what you voted X-P < 1280266600 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280266642 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know every vote so far < 1280266652 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me while I browbeat some regulard < 1280266655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*regulars < 1280266698 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* `moebius` (~moebius@host139-205-dynamic.56-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined ##C < 1280266698 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). < 1280266698 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Cannot join ##C (You are banned). < 1280266812 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So long as you, my unpaid unbiased representative, does the browbeating, it's OK :P < 1280266817 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/does/do/ < 1280266840 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: I will act in my official capacity as an unbiased Pirate. < 1280266862 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1280266916 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc_ < 1280266936 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc < 1280267350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, why were you banned from ##c? < 1280267449 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm going to assume it's related to disconnects < 1280267457 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Are you sure it's not just because it's +r? < 1280267465 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1280267468 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Sgeo__ with a proliferation of underscores is unregistered < 1280267501 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that worked < 1280267503 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280267508 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>NickServ< identify **** < 1280267508 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- You are already logged in as SgeoBot < 1280267552 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280267574 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280267607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty Gregor-W < 1280267646 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I AM amazing. < 1280267662 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a month ago I embarrassed myself by complaining about the EXACT same situation :P < 1280267672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280267691 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t wasn't ##c though, I don't recall now what channel it was. < 1280267746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it wasn't the exact same situation, liar! < 1280267771 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also wasn't exactly the same because I'm not Sgeo, and Gregor didn't point out the issue. < 1280268093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was a month ago. < 1280268313 0 :madk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280268432 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also true! < 1280268591 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSNBC uses some service "cachefly.net". I've never heard of it. I'll bet that if I go to that page, SOMEWHERE on it will be the phrase "you cache more flies with honey" < 1280268612 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only not on account of there not actually being a page there. < 1280268711 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey_ < 1280268729 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1280268736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :PH______________ < 1280268752 0 :PH______________!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now very untrustworthy < 1280268771 0 :PH______________!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, how much can I move the justification line? < 1280268821 0 :PH______________!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1280268861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I design a new language? < 1280268886 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TODAY IS STUPID QUESTIONS DAY) < 1280268922 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't actually meant to imply that PH______________'s question about the justification line was stupid, however. < 1280268949 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1280269153 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-14-59.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280269222 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280269373 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280269443 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And: Will my unit tests pass this time? < 1280269493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you writing? < 1280269513 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole argument about how dynamic languages make things quicker by removing the build step kind of falls apart when you need to run 7 minutes worth of unit tests to figure out if the change you've made actually solves the problem without creating any new ones. < 1280269560 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind the possibility that some of the unit tests aren't actually correct. And never mind the FACT that a test can't tell you as much as a proof would. < 1280269589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And never mind that compilation has very little to do with dynamic typing. < 1280269590 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just trying to refactor some crap at work. < 1280269608 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed. < 1280269624 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: but it's dynamic !! < 1280269636 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic must be better because c++ is static and c++ sucks < 1280269641 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, but compiling doesn't solve that at all :P < 1280269660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People seem to think that only "dynamic" languages are reasonable, modern languages. < 1280269667 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "refactor", I mean "move from Lovecraftian levels of insanity to merely Nixonian ones." < 1280269686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Yes, his *point* is that dynamic typing is not the magic "ZOMG CODE FASTER" thing that people think it is. < 1280269688 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, I resemble that statement! < 1280269710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: You. Haskell. Now. < 1280269726 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used Haskell! I wrote a raycaster in Haskell! < 1280269748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise that's as static as they come, right? :P < 1280269758 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said I was a fan of Haskell :P < 1280269771 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although for reasons having nothing to do with typing discipline) < 1280269772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You. Moar Haskell. Now. < 1280269776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, UUUUH < 1280269778 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-59.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280269786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why didn't I just say "gasp". < 1280269787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What *don't* you like about Haskell? < 1280269812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is probably going to be more fruitful than me just saying "But TYPING!". :P < 1280269816 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W resembles a statement? < 1280269842 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language is an unstable equilibrium. It has a lot of brilliant features, but if any of them were to change, the whole language falls apart. Just look at how far the eager dialects of Haskell have(n't) gone. It's a linguistic dead end. < 1280269854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: He's got a semicolon at his end. < 1280269878 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, poor boy, what happened to the other half? < 1280269892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Yes, Haskell does rely on the default non-strict evaluation... < 1280269910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a bit like complaining about how everything else relies on default strict evaluation though. < 1280269943 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nononono, I'm not complaining about that feature. < 1280269959 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm complaining about the fact that that feature is so intertwined with every other feature that it CAN'T change. < 1280269970 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor can any other feature change. < 1280269987 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280269989 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the whole language is a mess of features that all rely on each other and make no sense except in the context of a complete Haskell. < 1280270011 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it virtually impossible to imagine a language based on Haskell but with improvements, since anything you change breaks everything else. < 1280270030 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, unless you're arguing that Haskell is the One True Perfect Language For All Things, I argue that it's a linguistic dead end. < 1280270042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so you dislike that you basically can't take away any of lazy semantics, strict typing, or pattern matching and still have a Haskell. < 1280270048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and type classes. < 1280270056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are also pretty damned embedded in their. < 1280270062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/their/there/ < 1280270073 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can never really take anything away from a language, can you? Not without a huge fight. < 1280270109 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280270116 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280270136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, things like strict semantics, static weak typing, and direct memory access are embedded very deeply in C, and I don't see you complaining about that. :P < 1280270179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, just take away pointers from C and you have a dramatically different language) < 1280270185 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that I'm at work and secondary fact that I haven't used Haskell in a fair amount of time makes me incapable of forming a more complete argument. You're listing a VERY small subset of the set of intertwined features. < 1280270220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... What other features are there in the core language? < 1280270227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: can you give an example of a language with a linguistic future, for comparison? < 1280270237 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope! 8-D < 1280270242 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate all languages :P < 1280270263 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280270267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BTW, if you cite "monads" you FAIL FAIL FAIL FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER.) < 1280270305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what dynamic language is this, anyway? < 1280270332 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Gimme a P < 1280270338 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a Y < 1280270339 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1280270341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python? < 1280270342 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PYRL < 1280270347 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>: ) < 1280270352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...It doesn't compile. < 1280270372 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the fact that Haskell fanboys are just as bad as fanboys of every other godawful language out there doesn't help :P < 1280270387 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: In some ways, they're worse. < 1280270397 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that haskell fanboys are right! :P < 1280270402 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280270411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :najreo! < 1280270422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I got that apostrophe wrong. < 1280270456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to think of any other features *of* straight-up Haskell other than non-strict evaluation, strict typing, pattern matching, closures, type classes, and type inference... < 1280270465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is having trouble. < 1280270469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads? < 1280270486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Are defined in the standard library, not a feature of the bare language! < 1280270529 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weeeeelll ... IO monads require more than the core can provide obviously. < 1280270533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambdae. < 1280270544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1280270562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the IO implementation requires some support from the C runtime. < 1280270566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, could you fake a Haskell function with C or assembly, the use it to mess around with immutable memory? < 1280270573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/memory/stuff/ < 1280270580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1280270592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could actually do this *without* C or assembly. < 1280270593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1280270595 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that technically, IO could be implemented in the RTS without really involving the core language :) < 1280270601 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO to the "rescue" < 1280270602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeCast away. < 1280270619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Not even. < 1280270625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Just unsafeCast :: a -> b < 1280270627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1280270635 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sums up how Haskell fanboys are extra-obnoxious: Wadler has compared IO monads to a solution to Descartes' mind-body problem. < 1280270647 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(remove that smiley btw, it was said thoughtfully not jokingly) < 1280270676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, there are also *anonymous* functions in Haskell... < 1280270681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: IO _could_ be implemented as an ordinary datatype which the RTS just interprets specially. < 1280270691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. What else *is* there in Haskell? < 1280270695 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: exactly < 1280270701 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey people who are now actually talking in the channel, go vote on the poll in the topic ;) < 1280270732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, zuh? < 1280270820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: unsafeCast can be implemented with unsafePerformIO, well known hack < 1280270840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yuh. < 1280270866 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we've strayed from the fundamental point. < 1280270867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... would you like a reference? Google "How to Declare an Imperative" < 1280270870 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is that Hackiki is awesome. < 1280270880 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you want to prove that Haskell is awesome, you should write a Hackiki userland in Haskell. < 1280271046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, goodness, that is pretentious. < 1280271048 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heywow. < 1280271059 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HaskellWiki is the only MediaWiki I've ever seen that doesn't look like MediaWiki. < 1280271066 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: =) < 1280271068 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually you can identify MediaWiki from a kilometer away. < 1280271103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, I suspect they just changed the skin. < 1280271120 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make MediaWiki look like it was made inn the early 90s if you toy enough. < 1280271124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/nn/n/ < 1280271148 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet, every MediaWiki out there looks like Wikipedia did last year :P < 1280271195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.IO.Unsafe; import Data.IORef; unsafeRef :: IORef a; unsafeRef = unsafePerformIO (newIORef undefined); unsafeCast :: a -> b; unsafeCast x = unsafePerformIO $ do { writeIORef unsafeRef x; readIORef unsafeRef }; main = (unsafeCast (42 :: Integer) :: Double) `seq` print "Boo!" < 1280271204 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Boo!" < 1280271208 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION screams < 1280271243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird... < 1280271249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked on first attempt XD < 1280271269 0 :aliseiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.18 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280271274 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rue ruin. < 1280271285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Anyways, HASKELL IS PERFECT THERE CAN BE NO IMPROVEMENTS THEREFORE I DONT CARE < 1280271288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: :P < 1280271302 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Why is there a poll for it. < 1280271321 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: I want to know what peoples' opinions are before I invest any actual time *shrugs* < 1280271323 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Gregor-W believes in DEMOCRUCY. < 1280271331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, the reason all MediaWikis look the same is because all of the other skins are *hideous*. < 1280271351 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Apart from MINE. < 1280271365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? Do tell. < 1280271368 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Copy files. Set title. Done. < 1280271410 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sorry it's on hard disk #3745. It was really designed for wikis viewable by anyone and editable by one, anyway. < 1280271422 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A website type dealie. < 1280271424 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: And then watch it languish like every other project I've ever started; I'd rather know that it's languishing because people lied to me than because it's uninteresting. < 1280271428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard disc #3745? < 1280271430 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was pretty. < 1280271441 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Disk. Discs are round. < 1280271452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Pity you have too many projects. :P < 1280271456 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My way of saying "somewhere, some computer". < 1280271458 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard dis{k,c}s are usually round. < 1280271464 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore that blank line. < 1280271475 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: The internals. Not the drive. < 1280271479 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the round discs in the rectangular disk are round < 1280271490 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The platter is the disk, the rest is just the interface. < 1280271490 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like saying they're needles. < 1280271495 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a sticker. < 1280271508 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1280271542 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too hot. Shit. < 1280271551 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too fucking hot! < 1280271563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Is it greater than 30C? < 1280271564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on... < 1280271576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is too hot? < 1280271577 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> get fire < 1280271584 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No. < 1280271586 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I guess an Esolangs Hackiki wouldn't really be a "new" project, just an extension of the Hackiki project. < 1280271600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Then shaddup. < 1280271602 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can barely type. Ah god < 1280271605 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need ice < 1280271610 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And liquid < 1280271622 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You won't find them here, mate. < 1280271627 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spraying cool spray. brb < 1280271634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, WHAT IS HOT? < 1280271637 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I can't leave the room dude. < 1280271645 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The... Place? < 1280271653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The place you're in? < 1280271661 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the air. < 1280271665 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh. And me. < 1280271676 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're probably trying to torture her psychologically a la The Prisoner. < 1280271694 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why *did* you resign, aliseiphone? < 1280271715 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, I mean... No. 6? < 1280271726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: 2 more days! < 1280271739 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's probably busy waving her hands in the air instead of typing. Quite reasonable. < 1280271777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And: Will my unit tests pass this time? < 1280271786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will your unit pass the test of time? < 1280271853 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Mine won't! < 1280271886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: well it _could_ grow to a globe-spanning evil conspiracy. unless it's already part of one. < 1280271902 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Called the NHS. < 1280271912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, hardly "globe-spanning". < 1280271921 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough. < 1280271924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one you encounter doesn't even get up here. < 1280271965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scotland: Land of the slightly different NHS. < 1280271971 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine: NHS part of British govt part of globalised neoliberal capitalism. < 1280271978 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAPPY NOW? :P < 1280271979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a globe-spanning evil conspiracy of universal healthcare systems. until _recently_ the USA was the only free country holding out against them... < 1280271998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: *cough* Britain does not have a government. That's an island. < 1280271999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280272000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, I think this is getting a little silly. < 1280272001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* < 1280272003 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But then they started charging. < 1280272020 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I meant English. < 1280272027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, GASP < 1280272042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: England does not have its own government. < 1280272052 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Geddit? Free country? And implying they don't have universal healthcare? < 1280272055 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1280272064 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Has its own NHS. < 1280272068 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So shut up. < 1280272070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280272081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, England's NHS doesn't go into Wales? < 1280272082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity there's not an English Parliament or anything. < 1280272092 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dunno. < 1280272100 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Practically is. < 1280272112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Except it's the UK Parliament. < 1280272113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be surprised if it didn't, since they're the same for a lot of other stuff like that. < 1280272125 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The US btw do NOT have healthcare as we know it < 1280272131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Wales has its own NHS. < 1280272138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you're right. < 1280272140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: USA still doesn't have reasonable healthcare. < 1280272144 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: As I said... < 1280272152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this conspiracy talk is laughable craziness. < 1280272163 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Basically their new system is: < 1280272170 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SELL IT ALL < 1280272176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What it recently enacted was basically a scheme to further discourage a lack of private insurance. < 1280272196 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Don't have healthcare? You get fined." < 1280272198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is madness! < 1280272202 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1280272206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By fining not-tiny businesses for not offering insurance to employees and fining individuals for not having insurance. < 1280272211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no conspiracy of NHS doctors, none at all. < 1280272219 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is their "universal healthcare". :P < 1280272236 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then a bunch of regulations on the insurance companies. < 1280272250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaand* a "high-risk" insurer for people that the insurance companies *refuse to insure*. < 1280272250 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No doctors who deserve that name here! < 1280272255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my parents certainly aren't NHS doctors. < 1280272265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks people are _really_ bad at detecting his jokes today. < 1280272275 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I got it < 1280272279 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nationalized healthcare is socialism. < 1280272281 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just remarking. < 1280272282 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Socialism is communism. < 1280272283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's just that the US is still holding out. < 1280272286 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Communism is stalinism. < 1280272290 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore Obama is Stalin. < 1280272291 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED. < 1280272301 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Communism is fascism < 1280272313 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore Stalin is Mussolini. < 1280272313 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'awww you're right I could've gotten to Hitler. < 1280272315 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly me. < 1280272316 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED. < 1280272321 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fascism. < 1280272326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course Hitler is fascism. Fascism is right-wing. Right-wing is all-American. Therefore, HITLER FOR PRESIDENT 2012! < 1280272330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280272330 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psht. < 1280272332 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fascism is Nazism. < 1280272344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. I missed a step. < 1280272357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I can get to Satan in under 2 steps. < 1280272361 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore Obama is Stalin is Mussolini is Hitler. < 1280272365 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED. < 1280272381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well nazism is hell, of course < 1280272382 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus was a Nazi. < 1280272390 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obama lives in the White House. According to Casey & Andy, the Devil lived in the White House. < 1280272390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: And they're all right-wing, therefore it is unAmerican and unChristian to vote against them. < 1280272393 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore Obama is Jesus. < 1280272393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1280272394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEIL JESUS < 1280272421 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best way to prove Obama is Jesus, ever. Via *Hitler*! < 1280272443 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you coulda said Hitler is Christian < 1280272454 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Jesus totally was a Nazi. < 1280272552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, SPARC is short for "Scalable Processor Architecture". < 1280272567 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes his last name was "Macarthur". < 1280272612 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If given an optional parameter sizehint, it reads that many bytes..." <-- I totally read that parameter name as "shiznit". < 1280272651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very annoyed that no-one noticed that pun. < 1280272681 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Phantom MacArthur" ?? < 1280272692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh. < 1280272705 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION *whoosh* < 1280272718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i found that rather thin < 1280272745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that's because you're, like, Morgan-Mar's partner in pun. < 1280272904 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1280273408 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280273448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to attempt to get rid of these closures < 1280273487 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280273581 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info < 1280273878 0 :aliseiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.146 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280273897 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Get rid of closures? < 1280273900 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY? < 1280273913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything is bad if it hampers readability < 1280273922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're so closed-minded < 1280273922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'd say closures nested 3 levels deep do that < 1280273959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no, I'm still planning on using them, just moving the bulk of the code to named functions < 1280273968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the closures will do is call the functions with arguments < 1280273974 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sgeo needs closure on this issue < 1280274012 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What language? < 1280274030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# < 1280274031 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is half-expecting to hear AW < 1280274035 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280274038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AW is not a language < 1280274048 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it was funny < 1280274048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is for an AW project though, so < 1280274061 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You actually think I'm an idiot? < 1280274062 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1280274073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: DON'T ANSWER THAT < 1280274073 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280274096 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk is going around on talk pages suggesting pages be deleted because of ais deleting his < 1280274109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what did ais delete < 1280274116 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF2C < 1280274120 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right on! Wiki fight! Fight fight fight grrrr haaa! < 1280274129 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merged into brainfuck article < 1280274143 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One line in Implementations section < 1280274159 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a 10 line char by char dealie < 1280274181 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With some very basic optimisations iirc < 1280274246 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, the EgoBF suite doesn't have its own page. < 1280274246 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What pages is he suggesting deleting? < 1280274249 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's awesome! < 1280274283 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's EgoBF? < 1280274304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Assuming no copyvio because I didn't copy anything". Gotta love pedantry. < 1280274328 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, big article though, I was expecting a stub (on Maentwrog) < 1280274367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: EgoBF is Gregor's Brainfuck implementation. < 1280274384 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok, just an implementation? < 1280274386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikifight!wikifight! < 1280274402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a suite of compilers and interpreters, and fairly complete. < 1280274414 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's interesting only in that most of the commonly-variable behavior of BF implementations is switchable by flags, and it includes both compilers and interpreters *shrugs* < 1280274437 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, "egobf suite" sounded like it might've been a test suite or something (which would've been interesting since I have an interpreter that could use some testing) < 1280274470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah; it's just a set of implementations that should fulfill your every desire in Brainfuck. < 1280274493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Does it have bignum cells, or does it just top off at 64? < 1280274517 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tops off at 64. < 1280274533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1280274546 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pointless since I also wrote all the transforms necessary to make a program expecting 64-bit cells run on an 8-bit interpreter on the wiki :P < 1280274547 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Keymaker is still on the wiki. Cool < 1280274626 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you also have a bignum->8-bit transformation? :) < 1280274643 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not :P < 1280274648 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: there's a self interp for that < 1280274650 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be ... tough. Infinite hotel rooms problem. < 1280274658 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been done < 1280274659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Oh, that's *your* code? :D < 1280274660 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, doing an interpreter would be easier than a translation. < 1280274683 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bundle the code < 1280274690 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada, translation. < 1280274693 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you refer to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_bitwidth_conversions , then yes. < 1280274696 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be impossible since any halting program has an upper bound to the size of the bignums it could create < 1280274698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280274719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has half a mind to make a Brainfuck compiler that supports higher bitwidths by applying those. < 1280274723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280274772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. And you can apply those *recursively*... < 1280274782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Megabyte-cell Brainfuck! < 1280274788 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent idea. < 1280274818 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Please translate this amazing poetry to Japanese: Feng shui children cry / because rice tastes like fish / but actually only in Korea / death on the streets / of LOVE / why have you got to / must the of it / affadavit / quarks are my special things / why did our country die? / laser horse < 1280274834 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can detect overflowing cells, you could apply a bit-doubling transformation and restart < 1280274835 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you. < 1280274910 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"must the of it" < 1280274913 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: you wake? < 1280274931 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, must it? < 1280274987 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the of it must, or is it? < 1280275032 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bjornwasabadmanlivinginabadplacethepubhewalkedoutintothedeafeningroarofsilentstreetsandlpannedhisjourney < 1280275037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: *affidavit < 1280275040 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*andplanned < 1280275048 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: POETIC LICENSE < 1280275085 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execution browser < 1280275087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that laser horse at the end keeps reminding me of burma shave < 1280275103 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laserhorse.com is available. < 1280275111 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLOWLY DISROBING EVERY PERSON IN THE ROOM, BRIAN BLESSED THOUGHT OF BJORN, LOUDLY. < 1280275117 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1280275141 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burmashave.com, otoh, belongs to "American Safety Razor Co." < 1280275164 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American Safety Razor Co. < 1280275175 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :executives review its < 1280275190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: 風水な子泣く・飯が魚味ので・けど韓国にだけ・道に死・愛の・何故しなくちゃ・必要の・アフィデビット・クアークが僕の特もの・何故我が国死んだ?・レーザ馬 < 1280275194 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :future and't's grim;