00:00:02 <alise> the uncursed food ration is rotten <3
00:00:21 * Sgeo barfs on alise
00:00:30 <alise> Why ... thank you ...
00:00:56 <alise> You know, <3 doesn't mean I actually love it
00:01:24 <alise> ais523: I have very poor vision; I see random things outside my vision.
00:01:26 <alise> This would be the mines?
00:01:40 <Sgeo> In tiles, the walls would be strange
00:01:53 <ais523> your visible-light vision only stretches one square
00:01:59 <alise> ais523: Mines are bad, right? At least for morons like me.
00:02:03 <alise> ais523: also, I see walls further
00:02:03 <ais523> but you have infravision, which sees warm-bodied animals at a much greater range
00:02:11 <ais523> and they're slightly harder than the main dungeons
00:03:29 <fizzie> If your hunger is <200 (hungry is 150, so pretty close to it) and eat while hallu, the message is the rather nice "Oh wow, like, superior, man!" (instead of the usual "hit the spot" one).
00:03:50 <fizzie> (Though in fact just about all the hallucinating messages are great.)
00:04:03 <alise> Is there a way to use the hallucinating messages constantly but not have the other effects?
00:04:22 <Sgeo> alise, there's a permahallu thing that you can compile in
00:04:26 <Sgeo> But you get "other effects"
00:04:34 <alise> ais523: AceHack feature request.
00:05:06 -!- Flonk has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]).
00:05:25 <alise> 2 food rations or a trip ration; any suggestions as to which is likely to be safest?
00:06:09 <Sgeo> tripe is generally for animals I think
00:06:20 <alise> Om nom nom food ration
00:06:21 <fizzie> Tripe-eating hallu-msg: "Tastes great! Less filling!"
00:06:56 <alise> My "map out the whole level before descending" strategy isn't a very good one, is it?
00:07:25 <fizzie> People do the map-everything; I don't strictly adhere to it, but mostly.
00:08:05 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
00:08:25 <fizzie> (Oh, it's only "tastes great" if it would taste great: maybe_polyd(is_orc(youmonst.data), Race_if(PM_ORC)). The usual "Yak - dog food!" is not changed.
00:09:07 <alise> Ooh, a wand. ...Wands are good, right?
00:09:29 <fizzie> As long as it's not a wand of cancellation you're stuffing in your BOH.
00:09:40 <Sgeo> alise, don't zap it at yourself
00:09:44 <Sgeo> BOH = Bag of Holding
00:09:54 <fizzie> Right, sorry, Holding with a capital eich.
00:09:54 <Sgeo> They die when you put /cancel in
00:10:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:10:39 <alise> Uh, looks like Felix didn't want to follow me down.
00:10:44 <alise> Should I go and catch em or will e come?
00:11:06 <fizzie> It will not come, and may go un-tame if you leave it for too long.
00:11:08 <Sgeo> Go and catch him
00:11:18 <Sgeo> He needs to be next to you when you descend
00:12:14 <alise> Do, what do I do?!
00:12:20 <alise> I don't even know what a gnome lord IS.
00:13:18 <fizzie> It's just a gnome with a superiority complex.
00:13:27 <fizzie> Whack it with something sharp?
00:13:29 <alise> It means I'm in Minetown, doesn't it?
00:13:45 <alise> But I have a lot of vision -- I can see . many squares away.
00:14:03 <Sgeo> Don't drink from the fountain.. especially if it's about to dry up
00:14:11 <Sgeo> You should be warned
00:14:24 <alise> Sgeo: Yeah, I just quaffed a fountain before then remembered that's the thing you /shouldn't/ do
00:15:25 <alise> fizzie: Is it possible to get gnome lords outside of minetown?
00:15:34 <fizzie> I would think so, yes.
00:15:44 <alise> And will a long sword dispose of one?
00:15:49 <fizzie> But you get a whole lot of Gs in the mines.
00:16:04 <fizzie> They're not especially tough, if I remember right.
00:16:05 <alise> Wait, I already have it equipped.
00:16:17 <alise> fizzie: I can see .s more than one square away; so not Minetown, right?
00:16:36 <fizzie> The mines can be lit up sometimes.
00:16:42 <alise> What? You can have Pestilence as a pet?
00:16:45 <alise> fizzie: Okay, rephrase: How can I tell?!
00:16:57 <Sgeo> alise, in Debug mode, definitely
00:17:19 <fizzie> If it has square rooms (and is not actually in the town bit), it's not the mines.
00:17:19 <alise> Sgeo: this is from an ascension
00:17:35 <alise> Sgeo: someone ascended while having pestilence as a pet.
00:17:39 <alise> fizzie: square = rectangular?
00:17:51 <fizzie> The normal dungeony stuff.
00:17:53 <alise> Really attack the gnome lord? [yn] (n)
00:17:56 <alise> That sounds ominous.
00:17:59 <Sgeo> Squares can hold exactly 1 dragon. They can hold 1 kitten
00:18:06 <Sgeo> alise, means it's peaceful
00:18:10 <fizzie> Or at least non-hostile.
00:18:14 <alise> Okay. I'll just walk around it then.
00:19:09 <alise> Any ... easy ... way to undo that?
00:19:28 <fizzie> (If you went through the normal mines and arrived a place with regular rooms, that's the minetown. I'm not sure which one you wanted to distinguish.)
00:19:59 <alise> fizzie: I was just trying to avoid anything that wasn't regular dungeon.
00:20:07 <alise> Anyway, yeah, Lycantrophy.
00:20:40 <alise> Cool, I'm going to turn into a rat. The most exciting werecreature there is.
00:20:46 <fizzie> You can pray, if it's safe in general.
00:20:51 <alise> You turn into a wererat! You can no longer hold your shield!--More--
00:20:54 <alise> fizzie: So, just #pray?
00:21:02 <alise> Cool, I find I must drop my weapon.
00:21:05 <fizzie> It's a "major problem' and will be fixed ~first.
00:21:12 <alise> Use the command #monster to summon help.--More-- ;; what?
00:21:18 <alise> You can't even move a handspan with this load!
00:21:25 <alise> fizzie: #pray would be a good idea now wouldn't it?
00:21:34 <fizzie> You can summon more rats if you want.
00:21:46 <alise> fizzie: That sounds fun, but I can't move without dropping things, and I don't even have a shield or weapon.
00:21:51 <fizzie> If it's been long enough from your last prayer session.
00:21:57 <alise> I haven't ever prayed.
00:22:07 <alise> *I haven't ever prayed -- might have something to do with the fact that this is only level 5.
00:22:56 <fizzie> Holy water will also unlycanthropize you, if you happen to have some around. But it's useful for blessing things too.
00:23:12 <alise> Y an apelike creature (monkey) [seen: infravision]
00:23:25 <alise> I just killed a great ape; go me.
00:23:46 <alise> Well, okay, so monkeys aren't great apes.
00:23:56 <fizzie> Monkeys steal stuff; that's annoying.
00:24:03 <alise> Yeah. Fuck monkeys!
00:25:23 <alise> The pony kicks! The pony bites!
00:25:43 <alise> I think I'm going to die ... from a pony!
00:25:51 <alise> Nope, I killed it. Phew.
00:26:19 <alise> Felix suddenly disappears! -- he's dead now, isn't he.
00:26:46 <fizzie> He might have fallen through a hole, I'd guess.
00:27:06 <alise> ^ a trap (teleportation trap)
00:27:15 <alise> He's gone, isn't he.
00:27:22 <fizzie> Then he's just elsewhere on the same level.
00:27:31 <alise> Better find him quick.
00:27:44 <alise> fizzie: Okay, there are Gs EVERYWHERE. This is surely minetown -- but I didn't go through any mines!
00:28:01 <alise> Or is it just the mines?
00:28:15 <alise> Oh, there aren't /that/ many gnomes.
00:28:19 <alise> Can't be the mines.
00:28:59 <alise> Oh, he's right there.
00:29:14 <fizzie> The minetown is easy to recognize, since it has one of the N (where N is small) fixed alternative maps in the middle (largest) part.
00:30:04 <fizzie> Anyway, if you saw those two downstairs, went down one, and it was still just dungeony, you're still in the main branch.
00:30:15 <alise> I only saw one downstairs.
00:30:22 <alise> I couldn't find another; but I didn't look very hard.
00:30:25 <Ilari> Just be careful, sometimes Gnomes carry wands of death... :->
00:30:38 <alise> But there was only one G on the last level; Wikihack says there should have been loads, so there we go.
00:31:12 <fizzie> The mines are very different-looking, with irregularish walls and so on.
00:31:31 <alise> Yeah, this is just an usually G'ish level of the regular dungeon, I think.
00:32:11 <fizzie> A gnome infestation is no laughing matter!
00:32:54 <fizzie> You might consider the services of a gnomerminator.
00:32:58 <alise> Things that are here:
00:32:59 <alise> ┌───┐ a dark potion
00:32:59 <alise> │···│ ┌────────┐ ┌─────── a two-handed sword
00:32:59 <alise> │····##########·········│ │>······ --More--
00:34:40 <fizzie> Don't break the mirror ("looking glass"), it's seven years (or -2) of bad luck.
00:35:37 <fizzie> You can apply it to yourself for a silly message, though.
00:37:08 <alise> You feel your magical energy drain away! Felix bites the orc zombie.--More--
00:38:33 <alise> Anti-magic field; fun.
00:38:39 <fizzie> It just decrements yor energy ("MP") a bit.
00:38:47 <alise> Felix! Come next to the fucking downstairs.
00:39:00 <Sgeo> Prosituting stairs?
00:39:12 <alise> Sgeo: You know, every time I curse you don't have to make a sexual joke.
00:39:18 <fizzie> Pick up all the whistles you see; a magical one is very useful for pet-management.
00:40:02 <alise> Chain mail. That's gotta be heavy.
00:40:09 <alise> I can probably drop a lot of these weapons, right?
00:40:13 <alise> +0 dagger, orcish dagger ...
00:40:41 <alise> *You know, you don't have to make a sexual joke every time I curse.
00:42:04 <alise> I NEED DROPPING OPINIONS, I AM UNABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS ON MY OWN
00:42:28 <Sgeo> alise, you're turning into me?
00:42:38 <ais523> alise: you don't generally need a huge variety of weapons
00:42:50 <alise> +1 long sword, +0 dagger, katana, orcish dagger, two-handed sword, scimitar
00:42:56 <alise> which are droppable, which are keepers?
00:43:07 <alise> i /could/ google it, but asking people feels less like cheating
00:43:20 <alise> (wrt people-over-google, not ask-ais523)
00:43:40 <ais523> alise: katana and long sword are the only usable ones as melee weapons
00:43:50 <ais523> the daggers make decent thrown weapons
00:44:06 <ais523> katanas are better, but you can make the long sword into Excalibur
00:44:09 <fizzie> Also, katanas are just better, according to tvtropes.
00:44:29 <alise> ais523: I'll drop one of the daggers -- orcish > +0, right?
00:44:47 <ais523> orcish stuff is worse than plain
00:44:53 * Sgeo doesn't see alise as particularly lawful
00:44:59 <alise> Sgeo: but my valkyrie is
00:45:00 <fizzie> Trust the orcs to never make anything right.
00:45:03 <ais523> but if you're using them as thrown weapons, you probably want more than one
00:45:09 <alise> ais523: might just dropping stuff make bad guys pick it up?
00:45:25 <ais523> yes, but it's not normally worth worrying about
00:45:34 <fizzie> I tend to keep only one dagger for floating eye -throwing, but it's a bit awkward to pick it up always.
00:45:38 <Sgeo> That's what Elbereth's for, partially
00:45:42 <alise> Uh oh, only food I have is a tribe ration.
00:45:59 <ais523> don't eat it, it won't help
00:46:03 <ais523> you should be eating corpses more
00:46:04 <Sgeo> I just play wizards. Easy to force-bolt floating eyes
00:46:13 <alise> I also have two scrolls, three potions, a ring, a wand, and a looking glass.
00:46:18 <ais523> go into the mines and slaughter gnomes mercilessly so you can feast on their flesh
00:46:24 <alise> Those don't sound particularly heavy. I still have too many weapons.
00:46:24 <ais523> or alternatively, pick up all the free food in Sokoban
00:46:28 <ais523> assuming you dare go there
00:46:35 <alise> +1 long sword / +0 dagger / katana / orcish dagger / scimitar
00:46:37 <alise> gotta drop one or two...
00:46:49 <alise> ais523: I don't dare. But I will try to eat more corpses; it's just I'm so worried about being poisoned.
00:46:50 <ais523> also, the large box, if you still have /that/
00:46:58 <alise> Is chain mail any good?
00:47:02 <ais523> alise: you learn what's safe and what's dangerous after a while
00:47:06 <alise> No, I put down the large box immediately after I realised looting it was a better idea.
00:47:06 <ais523> and chain mail is decent, but heavy
00:47:16 <alise> Better than my uncursed +3 small shield, presumably.
00:47:27 <alise> I'll keep both, so I can drop the chain mail when prudent.
00:47:35 <fizzie> `addquote <ais523> you should be eating corpses more
00:47:47 <alise> "Felix picks up a scimitar."
00:47:49 <HackEgo> 214|<ais523> you should be eating corpses more
00:47:50 <fizzie> Okay, so the context is too obvious, but I still liked it.
00:47:50 <alise> I don't trust you with that, Felix.
00:47:52 <ais523> fizzie: that's only amusing out of context
00:47:59 <alise> ais523: and HackEgo eliminates context
00:48:01 <fungot> Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
00:48:04 <alise> fungot: be relevant
00:48:04 <fungot> alise: they say that no living thing could behold her without being turned into a trance before she spoke. ( encyclopedia mythica, ed. m.f. lindemans)
00:48:11 <alise> fungot: be relevant
00:48:11 <fungot> alise: they say that you can taste the delicious wine that much that he does " because now i know not. we can eat, and that was a favourite, and setting his lance into shivers, carrying him and shouted, " those six feet marked in chalk? much i talk, more numerous formerly than they are quite difficult to kill large animals.
00:48:25 <ais523> fungot: is delicious wine like delicious cake?
00:48:25 <fungot> ais523: they say that rubbing a glowing potion is too small to hurt or help you. now, and secretly covets moloch's position. moloch doesn't trust him, and elrond their child. ( three songs to the incautious adventurer who can cause the traveller to feel the latter his winged shoes, approached medusa while she slept and taking care not to apply genocide to shopkeepers.
00:48:42 * ais523 insists on interpreting the first sentence as innuendo
00:48:53 <fizzie> Elrond is a child of Moloch? Revelations!
00:49:07 <ais523> also, Moloch is female, it seems from that
00:49:16 <ais523> or gay and somehow capable of reproducing, I suppose
00:49:17 <alise> ais523: that must be the most stretched innuendo ever
00:49:37 <alise> also: hermaphroditic
00:51:56 <alise> Bear trap -- shit!
00:52:26 <ais523> move diagonally to escape for it
00:52:39 <ais523> (no, I don't know what the flavour justification for this is either; to teach people to use the diagonals?)
00:52:42 <alise> what a terrible bear trap
00:52:53 <ais523> although it takes several turns of moving diagonally
00:52:58 <ais523> so it is at least combat-relevant
00:53:05 <alise> "BEAR MOVE FORWARDS! BEAR MOVE BACKWARDS! BEAR MOVE LEFT! BEAR MOVE RIGHT! ... BEAR MOVE DIAGONALLY! [breaks free]"
00:53:46 <alise> I've never seen so many giant ants in my life! (Two)
00:54:36 <alise> you nethackkers have the craziest memes
00:54:46 <alise> what's your cutesy name for yourself ala pythonista?
00:54:47 <ais523> ants do get more kills than pretty much anything else, though
00:55:04 <alise> Not the createst corner I can imagine myself being in
00:55:09 <ais523> so it helps to back the winning team
00:55:24 <ais523> if they're winning, you might want to consider Elberething, even though it's a cheap tactic
00:55:25 <alise> ais523: Ha, I just killed 'em both.
00:55:41 <ais523> (also, rather like XML; if it isn't working for you, you need to do more of it)
00:56:37 <alise> ais523: don't you need something to write with and on to elbereth?
00:56:51 <alise> also, how did anyone play nethack in the days before google/wikihack?
00:56:53 <Sgeo> You can use your finger
00:57:00 <Sgeo> And write in the dust
00:57:10 <Sgeo> (on the ground)
00:57:11 <ais523> alise: they lost, generally speaking
00:57:29 * Sgeo is the founder of Wikihack
00:57:33 <alise> it feels like cheating, looking up all this useful stuff
00:57:47 <alise> Sgeo: "14 edits since October 11, 2005"
00:57:49 <alise> Sgeo: In name only ...
00:58:18 <Sgeo> Do note that I called myself "Absentee" founder
00:59:04 <alise> Very, very absentee. :P
00:59:44 <alise> NOT ANOTHER GIANT ANT!!!!
00:59:48 <ais523> alise: it tends to contain rather spurious tactics advice
00:59:56 <ais523> good on facts, but dubious on opinions
01:00:00 <alise> ais523: i'm just reading it for facts
01:00:08 <alise> ais523: anyway, take a look at http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Sgeo
01:00:29 <alise> ais523: he literally just created a tiny skeleton wiki in one day then disappeared for two years, returning to make four minor edits over two years
01:00:39 <alise> so he's hardly to blame ... or credit ... for anything
01:01:03 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
01:01:48 <alise> are giant ant corpses ok? apart from being incredibly unnutritional
01:01:56 <ais523> I think they're poisonous
01:02:09 <alise> <PinoBot> a | giant ant | Spd: 18 | Small | Genocidable | Lvl: 2 | AC: 3 | MR: 0 | Difficulty: 4 | Align: 0 | Small groups | Corpse wgt: 10 | Nutr: 10 | Atk: bite physical 1d4 | Flags: nolimbs, carnivore, oviparous, nohands, animal, hostile
01:02:13 <Sgeo> I may have promoted it a bit
01:03:05 <alise> ais523: felix just ate it
01:03:08 <alise> so i guess it's alright
01:03:15 <ais523> maybe it's soldier ants that are dangerous
01:03:30 * alise picks up a food ration
01:03:38 <alise> <PinoBot> a | soldier ant | Spd: 18 | Small | Genocidable | Lvl: 3 | AC: 3 | MR: 0 | Difficulty: 6 | Align: 0 | Small groups | Corpse wgt: 20 | Nutr: 5 | Conveys: poison resistance | Atk: bite physical 2d4, sting drain str 3d4 | Flags: poison resistance, nolimbs, pois, carnivore, oviparous, nohands, animal, hostile
01:03:41 <alise> "pois", so presumably
01:03:51 <alise> Vorpal: some nethack bot
01:03:58 <alise> Vorpal: asking it #!info name=monster name produces that stuff
01:04:00 <Vorpal> oh, I tend to use rodney
01:04:09 <ais523> rodney is human-edited
01:04:09 <alise> i would, but i don't know its syntax :P
01:04:18 <alise> i an imp or minor demon (manes) [seen: normal vision, infravision]
01:04:19 <ais523> alise: /msg Rodney ??soldier ant
01:04:24 <alise> I forget how bad imps are ...
01:04:24 <Vorpal> ais523, rodney gives useful info too
01:04:27 <ais523> they're both useful, but for different things
01:04:31 <ais523> also, manes are popcorn
01:04:37 <ais523> they're really easy, and really numerous
01:04:38 <alise> <alise> ??soldier ant <rodney> [silence]
01:04:40 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:04:45 <alise> the red threw me off
01:04:55 <ais523> purple is the color of bad in NetHack
01:04:55 <alise> ais523: I'm at level 8 but have barely done anything; am I not grinding hard enough? :P
01:05:02 <ais523> alise: that sounds about right
01:05:10 <alise> ais523: what exp should i be at, roughly?
01:05:20 <alise> Oh wow, the room is filled with imps.
01:05:25 <fizzie> <alise> Bear trap -- shit! <-- Gnaw your foot off! The solution for Real Men(tm).
01:05:31 <Vorpal> alise, the rodney info on soldier ants was rather useful IMO
01:05:40 <ais523> alise: early game it hardly matters
01:05:48 <ais523> the enemies scale to your level
01:05:54 <Vorpal> fizzie, alise: iirc you have greater chance if you try to move diagonally out of a bear trap
01:05:55 <ais523> in fact, overlevelling can be bad for that reason
01:05:58 <Vorpal> strange is the ways of the RNG
01:06:08 <alise> ring mail? pah, i have chain mail
01:06:15 <alise> Vorpal: yes, that's what ais523 told me
01:06:22 <alise> Vorpal: apparently you can only get out diagonally?
01:06:26 <alise> that's what ais523 seemed to imply
01:06:28 <ais523> orthogonally works too
01:06:40 <Vorpal> alise, I think there is a 1/32 vs. 1/5 chance or something like that
01:06:44 <alise> is never eating until weak a bad idea?
01:06:46 <Vorpal> well might not be that large
01:06:55 <Vorpal> and the numbers might not be exactly that
01:07:00 <Vorpal> alise, what made you play nethack btw?
01:07:12 <alise> Vorpal: i got it set up for a friend *shrug*
01:07:18 <alise> thus inspiring me to play
01:07:38 <alise> Peaceful dwarf! Orc! That RHYMES.
01:07:43 <alise> Vorpal: No -- Valkyrie; why?
01:07:51 <Vorpal> iirc being weak exercises WIS if you are a monk
01:07:55 <alise> "You see here 9 rocks." Ooh, I should totally pick those up.
01:08:03 <alise> The Uruk-hai hurls a swirly potion!--More--
01:08:05 <Vorpal> alise, might be Slash'EM only
01:08:06 <alise> A potion! How SCARY!
01:08:16 <alise> It broke into shards and I'm dizzy now. >_<
01:08:18 <Vorpal> alise, weak abuses str I think
01:08:22 <alise> Call a swirly potion:
01:08:37 <alise> Is "@-dizzier" a good name?
01:08:41 <Vorpal> alise, wait, it is hungry that exercises WIS
01:08:47 <alise> Vorpal: I eat as soon as I turn weak, though.
01:08:55 <alise> Vorpal: So there should be no effect.
01:09:28 <Vorpal> check the nethack wiki
01:09:33 <alise> You mean SGEO'S WIKIHACK
01:09:43 <Vorpal> alise, I meant nethack on wikia
01:09:45 <alise> Vorpal: yes, sgeo founded it
01:09:49 <fizzie> Hehe: if a foobear (owlbear or bugbear) gets caught in a bear trap, and it's not in sight (so you don't get the "is caught" message), it produces a You_hear("the roaring of an angry bear!");
01:09:54 <alise> Vorpal: which just came up
01:10:06 <alise> Vorpal: he calls himself an "absentee founder", i.e. he made 11 edits, 7 of which were done on the first day
01:10:10 <alise> and then disappeared for two years
01:10:20 <alise> we literally talked about it five seconds ago
01:10:22 <Vorpal> alise, did he ever play nethack?
01:10:29 <alise> Yes ... he plays Nethack ...
01:10:44 <Vorpal> alise, but it isn't a shitty VR thingy?
01:10:50 <Vorpal> alise, not 5 seconds, I just checked my scrollback
01:11:10 <Vorpal> some 15 minutes ago it seems
01:11:10 <alise> You know, he is reading this, and you're being pretty rude ...
01:11:18 <alise> Interest in shitty VRs != no interest in anyhing else
01:11:44 <Sgeo> It's been a while since I last touched NetHack
01:11:56 <Sgeo> Mostly because I don't want to screw up my decent game on NAO
01:12:04 <Sgeo> Also, laptopness and I haven't mastered vi keys
01:12:11 <alise> a decent, dormant game isn't very impressive
01:12:16 <alise> bah, vi keys are great
01:12:18 <alise> apart from diagonals
01:12:47 <Vorpal> I don't play on NAO, way way too much lag from here
01:12:49 <alise> coppro has lost the amend faith ;(
01:13:08 <alise> faith in my platonically-perfect editor!
01:13:11 <alise> he has turned to the Vi Side
01:13:33 <Sgeo> Does your editor even exist in any form other than in your mind yet?
01:13:47 <alise> But it was going to, at one point!
01:14:22 <Sgeo> I guess it's truly cross-platform, it has identical functionality on all platforms existent and non-existent
01:14:43 <alise> And ALL its features are incredibly powerful and intuitive!
01:14:51 <coppro> alise: no, I have not lost faith
01:14:56 <coppro> (so long as amend supports vi keys)
01:15:32 <alise> coppro: you do realise that you're not meant to use the movement keys in vi much at all?
01:15:37 <alise> you're meant to use /, w, b, etc.
01:15:52 <coppro> also Ctrl-U and Ctrl-D and the like
01:15:58 <alise> amend will have navigational features like that, but probably not direct vi key support
01:16:01 <alise> but that shouldn't really matter
01:16:04 <alise> who even knows if i'll write amend
01:16:19 <coppro> honestly, the thing I like most about vi is modality
01:16:30 <Sgeo> IMO, that's a thing to hate
01:16:33 <coppro> don't try to stuff everything into one set of keybindings, because that's dumb
01:16:42 <alise> coppro: jef raskin hates you!
01:16:50 <coppro> that and the commands accepting motions
01:17:14 <Sgeo> I assume jef raskin is some emacs guy?
01:17:19 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
01:17:25 <alise> jef raskin is possibly the greatest human-computer interaction specialist ever
01:17:33 <coppro> making the command and the text it operates independent is a good thing
01:17:36 <alise> designer of the original Macintosh, Canon Cat, author of The Humane Interface
01:17:58 <alise> later in life, advocate of zooming user interfaces and stuff
01:18:01 <coppro> Jef Raskin is right in some ways but wrong in others
01:18:08 <alise> father of aza raskin, mozilla usability guy
01:18:23 <alise> I don't like modality, but I don't like Emacs-style keyboard control either.
01:18:25 <alise> who knows what i like.
01:18:26 <coppro> simple interfaces are good. In cases where interfaces need to be easy to learn, that's good
01:18:49 <coppro> on the other hand, power users need complex interfaces because they need to do a billion things
01:19:25 <coppro> for the power user, I prefer modality to trying to stuff everything into one interface
01:19:29 <Sgeo> So, for my vaporware SL product, should I make two products? Easy-to-use, and power-user?
01:19:39 <alise> coppro: I firmly believe that simple interfaces can do complex things -- if I didn't believe that simple things can be plugged together in simple ways and create complex things, I wouldn't believe in atoms.
01:19:47 <alise> coppro: It's just a matter of finding the right one.
01:19:56 <Vorpal> <coppro> honestly, the thing I like most about vi is modality <-- and the lack of that is why I use emacs
01:20:16 <alise> Vorpal: you know, neither Sgeo's or your expression of that opinion was interesting, helpful or relevant in any way
01:20:53 <Vorpal> alise, to quote you: You know, he is reading this, and you're being pretty rude ...
01:21:06 <alise> I was criticising what you were saying; you were insulting Sgeo.
01:21:20 <Vorpal> alise, you were insulting him too
01:21:37 <alise> I was saying that both what Sgeo said and what you said was utterly pointless.
01:21:45 <Vorpal> alise, yes that is insulting
01:22:06 <alise> Vorpal: You're an idiot who doesn't understand what "insulting" means. See, only the first half of that sentence was insulting. Now just stop bothering me.
01:22:12 <alise> ais523: what do I call a swirly potion i know nothing about?
01:22:25 <alise> Call a swirly potion:
01:22:26 <ais523> it's just giving you the chance to name it as it just broke
01:22:29 <ais523> and you couldn't otherwise
01:22:34 <Vorpal> alise, you fail to see what is insulting to some. Now shut up.
01:23:05 <alise> Vorpal: Insulting is when I say something rude to you. "You just said something irrelevant" is not insultING, even if you are insulted; because only personal comments can be insults and therefore insulting.
01:23:39 <alise> Vorpal: Until you grasp this basic definition, please do not claim offence, as it is certainly not the most offensive thing I have said about you and it is definitely not as offensive as some things you have said about me; you are just looking for an argument.
01:23:46 <Vorpal> I disagree, but I'm not going to discuss this further with you.
01:24:20 <alise> You know, trying to seem like the More Mature Party by tacking on peaceful retreat after peaceful retreat is really opaque.
01:24:25 <Vorpal> there, no longer bothered by alise
01:24:26 <alise> The Uruk-hai shoots 2 poisoned orcish arrows!--More--
01:24:34 <alise> ais523: this uruk-hai is irritating.
01:24:48 <alise> Oh, announcing ignores, how wonderful. As if I even care what Vorpal says to me ...
01:25:08 <alise> ais523: first he threw a potion at me, then poisoned me ... he's quite a while away, what should I do? Throw a dagger?
01:25:28 <ais523> that's what they're fore
01:25:58 <alise> Felix yowls! The orcish dagger hits Felix!--More--
01:26:22 <alise> ais523: How do you do Elbereth again?!
01:26:29 <alise> And ... Uruk-hais won't respect it, will they?
01:26:52 <alise> ha, just as I Elberethed Felix finished him off.
01:27:01 <alise> poisoned orcish arrows sound good to throw around
01:27:07 <alise> ANOTHER URUK-HAI?!
01:27:22 <alise> ais523: there's a penalty for excessive Elberething, isn't there?
01:27:30 <alise> Something is written here in the dust. You read: "Fl|e-cth".
01:27:31 <ais523> but it doesn't save you from ranged attacks
01:27:31 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
01:27:33 <alise> That's not quite what I wrote ...
01:27:39 <ais523> it corrupts if you fight from the square
01:27:45 <ais523> also naturally over time if you stand on the square at all
01:27:50 <alise> are uruk-hai shields any good? i guess not compared to chain mail
01:27:56 <ais523> you can stack armour and shield
01:28:28 <Sgeo_> Why would a DOWNLOADED avi glitch?
01:28:43 <alise> ais523: what are iron shoes?
01:28:49 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
01:28:52 <alise> sounds like they wouldn't be so good for walking
01:28:55 <alise> ais523: sounds rubbish
01:29:10 <ais523> quite a lot of items are
01:29:13 <alise> Another Uruk-hai? Sheesh ...
01:29:17 <ais523> but they're the most protective of all shoes
01:29:24 <alise> w - a -1 chain mail (being worn)
01:29:28 <alise> That ... that isn't very good, is it?
01:29:33 <ais523> it's less good than normal chain mail
01:29:34 <alise> Is that actually hurting me?
01:29:38 <alise> c - an uncursed +3 small shield (being worn)
01:29:38 <alise> w - a -1 chain mail (being worn)
01:29:40 <alise> Double protection!
01:29:45 <ais523> no, it's beneficial, just not as much as normla
01:30:40 <alise> how clever is drinking a random potion to get back health, on average?
01:30:53 <alise> ... and does eating food bring back health? Wow, I need to pay more attention.
01:30:55 <ais523> prayer works better, if you haven't done so recently
01:31:01 <ais523> and no, most food doesn't heal
01:31:07 <alise> The last time I prayed was when I was lycanthropic, a few levels ago.
01:31:09 <ais523> (you can pray for health if on below 1/7 of your max)
01:31:19 <alise> Experience level 7, so that's okay; 13 HP now.
01:32:43 <alise> I hear crashing rock, fun fun.
01:32:52 <alise> ais523: are things meant to suddenly get difficult on level 8?
01:32:55 <Sgeo_> You can make permanent Elbereths
01:33:07 <ais523> alise: it's the average of your XL and dlvl that matters
01:33:24 <alise> ais523: exp 7, dlvl 8
01:33:25 <Sgeo_> Write in the ground with fire or lightning (lightning.. makes you what you now are)
01:33:37 <alise> Sgeo_: not blind any more
01:34:34 <alise> I wonder if maybe I should run.
01:35:57 <alise> He deleveled me! The bastard!
01:36:38 <alise> FELIX! Stop fighting that dwarf!
01:36:53 <alise> ais523: is dwarvish stuff good?
01:37:00 <ais523> yes, butter than normal
01:37:22 <alise> ah, they're so butter.
01:37:39 <alise> ais523: i don't need weapons -- short sword, mattock -- but are their cloaks, iron helms any good?
01:38:40 <alise> i should probably use the google
01:40:36 <alise> ais523: hmm, dwarvish cloaks seem crap
01:40:55 <alise> dwarvish iron helms seem quite good?
01:40:56 <ais523> but they provide 33% protection against things like level drain and poison
01:41:01 <alise> oh, that sounds nice
01:41:02 <ais523> dwarvish helms are good, yes
01:41:11 <ais523> alise: you can get more than 33% with various other cloaks
01:41:15 <ais523> but 33% is still better than nothing
01:41:21 <alise> are dwarvish mattocks worth keeping?
01:41:32 <ais523> they're heavy, two-handed, and dig through walls
01:41:37 <ais523> normally no, but it depends on your playstyle
01:41:43 <ais523> also, inaccurate but do massive damage when they hit
01:42:02 <alise> i like anything that gets me out of a situation quickly
01:42:06 <alise> cloak and iron helm it is, then
01:43:28 <alise> ais523: if i'm having difficulty on a level, best to stay on it until i'm confident, yeah?
01:43:32 <alise> it's just that i'm a bit low on food.
01:43:40 <ais523> Sokoban's a good place to aim if you're low on food
01:43:45 <ais523> but I know you hate the place
01:43:50 <alise> yes, but I'll never get out of sokoban
01:44:06 <Vorpal> <ais523> it corrupts if you fight from the square <-- not if burned
01:44:15 <alise> *sigh* I wish kobold corpses weren't poisonous. Mummy wrapping? Sheesh.
01:44:19 <fizzie> If there's no pick-axe around and you desperate to dig into something, a dwarvish mattock is fine too. (But it's heavier to lug around than a regular pick-axe.)
01:44:25 <ais523> mummy corpses are worse than poisonous
01:44:28 <ais523> they're a delayed instadeath
01:44:34 <Vorpal> fizzie, wand of digging
01:44:40 <alise> ais523: sweet. any cure?
01:44:49 <ais523> a few, but they're rare
01:44:53 <ais523> prayer is the only common one
01:45:03 <alise> Vorpal discovers that he's ignoring me
01:45:06 <alise> is utterly shocked by this fact
01:45:15 <ais523> Vorpal: apart from unihorn and prayer, the other cures for foodpois are really obscure
01:45:25 <ais523> ignoring people tends to mean you miss half the conversation...
01:45:34 <Vorpal> ais523, no I meant, delayed instadeath from mummy corpses
01:45:44 <ais523> alise: yes, the cures are rare
01:45:51 <ais523> can you name a common one that isn't unihorn/prayer?
01:46:13 <Vorpal> ais523, I can't even think of any other one
01:46:26 <Vorpal> ais523, well lizard for cockatrice
01:46:40 <ais523> err, that's nothing to do with foodpois
01:46:48 <Vorpal> ais523, no, with instadeath
01:46:51 <Vorpal> ais523, which is what I meant
01:46:59 <ais523> Vorpal: the game has /more than one instadeath/
01:47:14 <Vorpal> ais523, you never answered my question about mummies above
01:47:30 <Vorpal> ais523, which was (reworded) "what sort of delayed instadeath from mummy corpses cause?"
01:47:42 <Vorpal> ais523, as instadeath?
01:47:50 <ais523> foodpois is a delayed instadeath
01:47:57 <ais523> this is, if you eat them
01:48:07 <Vorpal> ais523, so what are the rare cures for it
01:48:26 <ais523> eucalyptus, some forms of polyself
01:48:32 <alise> ais523: if I go upstairs, will there be food, even if i previously vanquished the level?
01:48:32 <ais523> higher-end healing potions
01:48:37 <ais523> cure sickness the spell
01:48:38 <Vorpal> well yeah polyself would work
01:48:42 <ais523> alise: corpses, and only in small amounts
01:48:51 <Vorpal> doesn't it against green slime?
01:48:55 <alise> ais523: good enough
01:49:07 <alise> ais523: actually, just went back up and can't see any corpsular things...
01:49:09 <Vorpal> ais523, why eucalyptus?
01:49:12 <ais523> Vorpal: it works against absolutely everything in the game, depending on which form you pick
01:49:14 <alise> ais523: probably best to descend downwards
01:49:17 <ais523> Vorpal: because it's a foodpois cure
01:49:22 <alise> ais523: i'm hungry and need food urgently
01:49:27 <Vorpal> ais523, ... right, why is it?
01:49:38 <Vorpal> ais523, is it in real life?
01:49:39 <ais523> because if you eat it, you're no longer foodpoisoned
01:50:02 <Vorpal> ais523, I was trying to ascertain why they selected eucaluptus for it
01:50:03 <alise> You feel that eating the large dog was a bad idea.
01:50:23 <alise> ais523: what did i do...
01:50:27 <alise> ais523: and why am I still hungry?
01:50:35 <ais523> and you're hungry as it didn't provide much nutrition
01:50:39 <alise> what's going to happen to me?
01:50:42 <alise> how painful will my death be?
01:50:51 <ais523> you annoy monsters for the rest of the game
01:50:54 <alise> and hey, the koreans do it!
01:50:58 <alise> ais523: How badly?
01:51:00 <ais523> although, as a valkyrie, you get stealth which cancels it out
01:51:03 <ais523> so hardly badly at all
01:51:05 <ais523> although there's no cure
01:51:08 <alise> ais523: Wow, that's awful.
01:51:11 <ais523> well, no plausible cure
01:51:13 <alise> ais523: Just eating one thing can impair you for the whole game?
01:51:17 <alise> Implausible cures sound good.
01:51:32 <ais523> gremlin attack at night removes one of your intrinsic abilities
01:51:42 <ais523> there's a small chance it's agg monster rather than something you actually wanted
01:51:51 <ais523> most of the time, they just remove your cold res or whatever
01:52:17 <Vorpal> ais523, is there equal chance for all intrinsics?
01:52:41 <alise> ais523: so how much is this impairing my chance at ascension, taking it as read that i'm a bad player anyway? (even though it's a very low probability, how much has it been damaged?)
01:53:02 <ais523> your pet will be less tolerant of abuse, that's pretty much the only effect
01:53:08 <alise> I'd never abuse Felix! :<
01:53:10 <ais523> because stealth cancels out the others
01:53:18 <ais523> alise: didn't you hit him/her with a dagger earlier?
01:53:22 <alise> ais523: once; and that was a mistake
01:53:29 <alise> but only that time, and i'll be more careful next time
01:53:42 <alise> ais523: You can't have two pets, can you?
01:53:47 <ais523> you can, but it's a pain
01:53:52 <alise> ais523: BUT KITTENS.
01:53:57 <ais523> you can have pretty much unlimited numbers
01:53:57 <alise> I want 50 kittens.
01:54:05 <alise> is there a record for number of pets?
01:54:08 <alise> I will beat it. With kittens.
01:54:25 <ais523> record's probably in the hundreds, or even higher
01:54:36 <alise> anyone ascended with ridiculous numbers of pets?
01:54:43 <ais523> most you can ascend with is 9
01:54:50 <alise> why? limited space?
01:54:50 <ais523> it's probably been done, but 8 is more common as 9 is kind-of awkward
01:54:54 <ais523> yep, limited space round the altar
01:55:06 <alise> ais523: gotta be nice having all those pets though
01:55:15 <alise> little to no worry if one disappears, very efficient monster-killing machines
01:55:19 <ais523> most people find them an annoyance
01:55:34 <alise> You are carrying too much to get through.
01:55:37 <alise> that's my signal to drop shit
01:55:46 <alise> y - 14 poisoned orcish arrows ;; they're not that heavy, are they?
01:56:00 <alise> uncursed +3 small shield, -1 chain mail, +0 dwarvish cloak, +0 iron helm
01:56:04 <alise> I think I'll drop the shield
01:56:10 <Sgeo_> Someone once tried to dig as much as possible, polymorph rocks into gems, and ascend
01:56:21 <alise> are looking glasses heavy?
01:56:28 <alise> & what do they do? identify scrolls or something?
01:56:31 <Sgeo_> And one stupid mistake ruined everything
01:56:38 <alise> Sgeo_: for what purpose?
01:56:43 <Sgeo_> looking glass ... as in mirror?
01:56:51 <ais523> Sgeo_: heh, DeathOnAStick?
01:56:54 <alise> u - a looking glass
01:56:56 <alise> As in looking glass.
01:57:00 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, I done that, Have about 20 dilithium crystals in my current game
01:57:02 <ais523> alise: monsters can be scared by their own reflection
01:57:08 <ais523> or worse, if their gaze does something interesting
01:57:08 <alise> ais523: that sounds hideously pointless
01:57:10 <Sgeo_> Well, mirros are good against one particular named monster
01:57:21 <ais523> most NetHack items are rather situational
01:57:25 <alise> ais523: worth keeping, or ... ?
01:57:32 <ais523> meh, you'll find another by the time you need it
01:57:48 <alise> do i really need 20 arrows? :-)
01:58:02 <ais523> not if you don't have a bow :)
01:58:18 <alise> i'll drop the 6 unpoisoned ones
01:58:21 <Sgeo_> alise, if you want to bring pets with you, especially if they're carrying something valuable, be sure to be careful what potions you drink on level 1
01:58:27 <alise> ais523: i can still throw them though
01:58:31 <alise> ais523: and they seem to hit well enough
01:58:32 <fizzie> Can you do any damage with a hand-thrown arrow?
01:58:38 <alise> Sgeo_: I'm on level 9; a bit late for that now.
01:58:44 <alise> I've drunk no potions so far out of cowardice.
01:58:49 <alise> fizzie: Well, I don't know, but they've hit.
01:58:52 <Sgeo_> You'll be back to level 1
01:58:53 <alise> fizzie: Maybe the poisoned ones do more.
01:59:01 <alise> Sgeo_: Gasp, that sounds so unlikely.
01:59:17 <alise> Sgeo_: Maybe I should pick up all the valuable stuff my pet has before doing anything dangerous :P
01:59:34 <Sgeo_> My point was a bit different
01:59:58 <Sgeo_> There are certain potions that when cursed, take on a more literal meaning
02:00:16 <Sgeo_> If you want to go somewhere with pets, you want to not do that literal meaning, especially if it's irreversible
02:00:23 * Sgeo_ likes being cryptic
02:00:23 <alise> I don't mind spoilers.
02:00:31 <alise> I know I'd never beat the game without them.
02:00:41 <Sgeo_> Cursed potion of gain level == you go up through the ceiling
02:00:42 <ais523> alise: "potion of gain level" normally moves your experience level up
02:00:47 <ais523> when cursed, it moves your /dungeon/ level up
02:00:51 <ais523> so DOAS went from level 1... to level 0
02:01:01 <Sgeo_> Only possible when you have the Amulet
02:01:01 <ais523> past the point of no return, and leaving all his gems behind
02:01:03 <alise> ais523: thus quitting?
02:01:14 <Sgeo_> Going to the endgame
02:01:17 <ais523> he had the Amulet, so it just started the endgame
02:01:24 <Sgeo_> Normally, this is good, as it ensures that you have the real amulet
02:01:35 <alise> Sgeo_: you ever ascended?
02:01:39 <ais523> Sgeo_: that's an ingenious way to ID the amulet
02:01:44 <Sgeo_> Never even came close
02:01:46 <alise> not a very strong senes of know
02:01:56 <alise> ais523: what happens if you offer a plastic amulet to your god? wrath?
02:02:01 <ais523> all sorts of bad things
02:02:08 <ais523> wrath is involved, but I think it isn't even just that
02:02:08 <Sgeo_> I think that's the worse sin you can possibly do
02:02:15 <alise> i meant wrath in a general sense
02:02:25 <ais523> Sgeo_: nah, exploding a god's high altar is the worst sin you can possibly do
02:02:31 <Sgeo_> I think worse then smiting
02:02:37 <Sgeo_> You can survive smiting
02:02:37 <alise> DAMMIT BY SMITING I MEANT THE REAL-WORLD SENSE
02:03:03 <Sgeo_> NetHack shouldn't have the power to anger your real-world god if you have one
02:03:42 <ais523> alise: yes, the god does do bad things to you, quite possibly an expression of anger
02:03:45 <ais523> is that what you wanted?
02:03:59 <Sgeo_> Where's the file with offer stuff?
02:05:33 <Sgeo_> It makes your god angry, but not smity, afaict
02:05:39 <Sgeo_> And makes you unlucky
02:05:39 <fizzie> The wide-angle disintegration beam is quite awesome.
02:05:50 <Sgeo_> http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Pray.c#Sacrificing_the_Amulet_of_Yendor
02:06:12 <alise> ais523: Do I really need an uncursed +3 small shield if I have a -1 chain mail, a dwarvish {+0 cloak and a +0 iron helm}?
02:06:29 <ais523> the shield is lighter and better than all three of the other items
02:06:35 <ais523> so it depends on if you really want to use your other hand for something
02:06:59 <alise> 1285. pline("A cloud of %s smoke surrounds you...",
02:06:59 <alise> 1286. hcolor((const char *)"orange"));
02:07:06 <alise> what does hcolor do, return the colour name in that colour?
02:07:15 <alise> ais523: I just want to shed weight.
02:07:15 <ais523> when hallucinating, you can't see colours straight
02:07:23 <ais523> drop the chain mail to shed weight
02:07:26 <ais523> assuming you can even take it off
02:07:35 <alise> how do you unwear...?
02:08:17 <alise> ais523: I appear to not be able to take it off. Halp!
02:08:30 <fizzie> (Longish paste, 8 lines.)
02:08:31 <ais523> this is why you don't put on random armour without cursechecking it...
02:08:35 <fizzie> 521. if (!Disint_resistance)
02:08:35 <fizzie> 522. fry_by_god(resp_god);
02:08:35 <fizzie> 524. You("bask in its %s glow for a minute...", NH_BLACK);
02:08:35 <fizzie> 525. godvoice(resp_god, "I believe it not!");
02:08:36 <alise> ais523: it's uncursed!
02:08:40 <fizzie> 527. if (Is_astralevel(&u.uz) || Is_sanctum(&u.uz)) {
02:08:43 <fizzie> 528. /* one more try for high altars */
02:08:43 <ais523> oh, take the cloak off first then
02:08:54 <fizzie> It's awesome how you can defy god.
02:08:58 <alise> ais523: nope, it is cursed.
02:09:22 <ais523> well, you're hardly likely to be able to uncurse it this early
02:09:27 <ais523> you'll just have to stick with your heavy cursed armour
02:10:41 <alise> N a naga (guardian naga hatchling)
02:11:06 <alise> ais523: am I exceedingly unlucky?
02:11:29 <ais523> no, they're pretty common earlyish
02:11:37 <ais523> both cursed stuff and nagas
02:11:48 <alise> It was easy to kill.
02:11:57 <ais523> well, it's only a hatchling
02:12:04 <alise> Yum, guardian naga hatchling corpse.
02:12:12 <alise> ais523: Ooh, an Orcale.
02:12:22 <ais523> I guessed, just from the naga hatchling
02:12:32 <ais523> and the oracle isn't particularly helpful to a spoiled player
02:12:35 <ais523> my spoilers are better than hers
02:12:50 <Sgeo_> She says some kind of ... thing if you can't pay
02:12:57 <Sgeo_> I haven't found it in the source.
02:13:25 <alise> ais523: i'm basically cheating, aren't i :(
02:13:42 <ais523> the way you're playing is fine
02:13:45 <ais523> probably more fun than the alternative
02:13:46 <Sgeo_> It's either that, or dying
02:14:00 <alise> But the Dev Team probably hate me. :P
02:14:05 <alise> ais523: is killing the oracle interesting in any way?
02:14:14 <ais523> she does fight back if you attack
02:14:24 <ais523> strangely, /angering/ her doesn't do anything bad, because her only attack is a defense
02:14:55 <alise> can I talk to her?
02:15:03 <ais523> but she'll try to charge you money
02:15:18 <alise> are the major ones any good? 850 zm
02:15:22 <alise> the minor ones are probably crap
02:15:25 <alise> i don't have that much money anyway
02:15:26 <ais523> the minor ones are crap
02:15:30 <ais523> the major ones are also mostly crap
02:15:36 <ais523> but at least you can tell what they mean
02:15:37 <Sgeo_> You can get minor ones by eating fortune cookies
02:15:48 <ais523> here, do you want a major consultation? I'll grab one from the game's sourcecode
02:15:54 <Sgeo_> You can also get lies from fortune cookies
02:16:02 <ais523> the lies are pretty amusing
02:16:19 <Sgeo_> http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Oracles.txt
02:16:24 <ais523> If thy wand hath run out of charges, thou mayst zap it again and again; though naught will happen at first, verily, thy persistence shall be rewarded, as one last charge may yet be wrested from it!
02:16:24 <Sgeo_> All of the major consultaions
02:16:36 <ais523> (it takes 121 zaps on average)
02:16:44 <alise> ais523: Must be pretty desperate to do that.
02:16:49 <ais523> alise: leprechauns steal gold, and do minimal damage
02:16:54 <ais523> alise: it's generally only done with wands of wishing
02:17:13 <ais523> although I've known people to wrest other wands before
02:17:24 <Sgeo_> VLC seems to have lost the ability to be not-fullscreen
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02:17:44 -!- nooga has joined.
02:18:05 <alise> how do you kick again?
02:19:22 <alise> ais523: Oh my god! It looted me -- then again when I tried to chase after it!
02:19:43 <ais523> hint: if you aren't holding or standing on gold, they can't teleport
02:19:44 <alise> Can I kill it and reclaim my cash?
02:19:53 <alise> Will it be easy? Ish?
02:20:02 <alise> Also, I'm not just going to *put down all my gold* so he can take it!
02:21:22 <alise> ais523: do tripe rations help at all?
02:21:27 <ais523> alise: they're pet food
02:21:37 <alise> ais523: correction: they're my /only/ food
02:21:49 <ais523> they have negative total nutrition
02:21:49 <nooga> ffs, what are you doing
02:21:55 <alise> nooga: playing nethack
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02:22:06 <alise> ais523: ok, can i survive at dlvl9/10 with only $168?
02:22:10 <alise> or should i really try and kill that l
02:22:16 <ais523> gold's mostly irrelevant
02:22:36 <nooga> i always liked the angband
02:22:44 <alise> ais523: but, then, what better way to get food than killing the leprechaun?
02:22:54 <ais523> leprechaun corpses have... side-effects
02:22:59 <alise> i am currently hungry; i ate the rest of my partially-eaten corpse before and a few turns later i got hungry again
02:23:06 <ais523> nope, permanent teleportitis
02:23:14 <ais523> a status that makes most people ragequit, even though it's technically optimal
02:23:20 <alise> ais523: you mean ... i'll just teleport everywhere?
02:23:28 <alise> or only around enemies?
02:23:31 <ais523> teleport at random, every now and then
02:23:37 <alise> why is that technically optimal?
02:23:41 <ais523> you can't turn it off, although with appropriate items or intrinsics you can control it
02:23:49 <Sgeo_> Be careful in shops
02:24:01 <Sgeo_> Leave an appropriate amount of money on the ground BEFORE picking anything up
02:24:03 <ais523> and because it takes you out of danger when injured, on average
02:24:05 <Sgeo_> Unless you want to steal
02:24:27 <ais523> the idea is: when on full health, etc, it doesn't matter where you are
02:24:30 <alise> ais523: ok, now here's my situation: all i have is pet food, there's nothing left on the level as far as I know, and I'm hungry, having just eaten a few turns ago
02:24:38 <alise> ais523: is there any hope?
02:24:43 <ais523> if you're hurt, you're in danger, and you'll probably teleport out
02:24:44 <alise> can praying solve my hunger?
02:24:47 <ais523> alise: once you become weak, pray
02:24:52 <ais523> yep, it can, but only at weak or below
02:24:58 <alise> i prayed maybe 3, 4 levels ago
02:25:05 <alise> i'm willing to risk it if the alternative is death
02:25:10 <Sgeo_> It's based on turns, I think
02:25:22 <ais523> very random, the random function involved is considered one of the most insane random distributions ever created
02:25:23 <Sgeo_> You could eat the leprechaun
02:25:29 <alise> ais523: ah yes, that one
02:25:33 <ais523> http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Rnz
02:25:45 <alise> ais523: if i become weak, how many turns do I have before I die, roughly but conservatively?
02:25:46 <ais523> if it helps, the median value's known to be 350 turns
02:25:56 <alise> it's definitely been more than 350 turns
02:26:05 <alise> ais523: ok, i'll walk a bit first
02:26:10 <ais523> well, 100 before you become Fainting, which tends to kill you very quickly
02:26:24 <alise> The winter wolf cub breathes frost!--More--
02:26:37 <ais523> it won't hurt you as a valk, but will hurt your potions
02:27:14 <ais523> ok, that gives you another 900 turns
02:27:22 <alise> ais523: is praying too quickly an instadeath?
02:27:33 <ais523> the seventh or eighth time, maybe
02:27:40 <alise> is it a smiting then, or harmless?
02:27:40 <ais523> but it turns off your ability to pray
02:27:51 <coppro> I have just proven that my default course of action when bored is loading slashdot
02:27:52 <ais523> first time, you can't pray successfully again until you give your god a nice enough offering
02:28:03 <ais523> a monster of level 8 or higher, 12 if chaotic
02:28:06 <coppro> I just got bored reading slashdot, so I loaded up slashdot to see if there was anything interesting
02:28:11 * Sgeo_ offers alise on an altar
02:28:13 <alise> coppro: I do that with reddit.
02:29:03 <alise> Alise the Fighter St:18/02 Dx:13 Co:18 In:10 Wi:8 Ch:7 Lawful
02:29:03 <alise> Dlvl:9 $:168 HP:44(69) Pw:8(8) AC:0 Exp:7
02:29:06 <alise> ais523: any opinions on how well i'm doing?
02:29:20 <ais523> typical early-game character, maybe playing a bit too slowly
02:29:24 <alise> and why don't winter cubs leave corpses?
02:29:28 <alise> ais523: yeah, i'm tending to map out every level
02:29:31 <ais523> it's a random chance of leaving corpses
02:29:35 <alise> coppro: yes, i did
02:29:37 <alise> coppro: is that surprising somehow?
02:29:38 <coppro> that's an accomplishment
02:29:42 <alise> i've found the game easy so far
02:29:46 * Sgeo_ is now playing Apples to Apples
02:29:47 <alise> very easy, in fact
02:29:51 <ais523> anyway, for pretty much anyone I'd say "find Sokoban, the entrance is on the level after the Oracle"
02:29:55 <coppro> heck, finding a downstair in a roguelike is typically an accomplishment
02:29:55 <ais523> "and loot all the food there"
02:30:04 <ais523> coppro: haha, given what happened earlier
02:30:08 <alise> coppro: ah, you have a low opinion of them :D
02:30:14 <alise> ais523: wait, what happened earlier? i'm starting to forget myself!
02:30:20 <alise> my impossible level 1
02:30:28 <alise> coppro: I got stuck on level 1
02:30:42 <alise> coppro: it covered almost the entire screen, had a bunch of dead-end corridors that nevertheless didn't have anything hidden
02:30:46 <ais523> alise: anyway, food generation chances in Sokoban are /very/ high
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02:30:59 <alise> coppro: apparently had a vault somewhere
02:31:00 <ais523> which is one of the reasons you tell newbies to go there, as they tend to run out of food quickly
02:31:01 <alise> (though i couldn't find it)
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02:31:08 <alise> coppro: and I could not find a downstair
02:31:12 <coppro> doesn't sokoban also start with lots of food on the ground?
02:31:21 <alise> ais523: Yes, but ... you have to do Sokoban.
02:31:28 <ais523> coppro: it's that I Was referring to
02:31:36 <ais523> alise: you could always look up a spoiler for the solutions
02:31:41 <alise> coppro: take a look: http://i.imgur.com/k06Kv.png
02:31:54 <alise> i gave up on /that/ game
02:31:54 <coppro> Sokoban isn't mandatory. It's just a ridiculously good idea
02:32:04 <alise> ais523: that really /is/ cheating, though
02:32:32 <coppro> alise: under the boulder in the west chamber?
02:32:55 <alise> coppro: wait, /under/?
02:33:10 <ais523> alise: I did suggest that a while ago
02:33:13 <ais523> and assumed you'd acted on it
02:33:15 <alise> coppro: I still have the save file if you want to try that, but you'll have to create an "alise" user or nethack will just delete it
02:33:16 <coppro> alise: sure, a boulder can be on a staircase
02:33:19 <alise> ais523: i didn't recall you suggesting that
02:35:00 <alise> ais523: haha, you're probably right too
02:36:18 <alise> ais523: i'm satiated now! hooray!
02:36:32 <alise> eating while just having prayed for food: best idea or GREATEST IDEA?
02:36:49 <alise> coppro: yeah i realise.
02:36:53 <alise> coppro: but it would have spoiled! :P
02:37:45 <alise> ais523: I'm in a pit ...
02:37:54 <ais523> keep moving, you'll climb out
02:38:03 <alise> ais523: So, I've just seen the Oracle; Sokoban's entrance is on dlvl 10, then?
02:38:08 <ais523> alise: it's always on the level below
02:38:12 <alise> ais523: what? don't contradict each other! this game is complicated enough as it is
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02:39:12 <alise> 128 gold pieces, a light brown spellbook, a black onyx ring! Score, I think?!
02:39:50 <alise> ais523: "You hear some noises." It's dark. Looks like a Miney-thing to me?
02:39:56 <alise> So the entrance to Sokoban is here, somewhere.
02:40:01 <ais523> alise: probably just an unlit room
02:40:05 <alise> are gems worthwhile?
02:40:05 <ais523> they become more common as the game goes on
02:40:10 <ais523> and gems are almost worthless
02:40:13 <alise> also, how many levels are there, again?
02:40:16 <ais523> except when they're /actually/ worthless
02:40:19 <alise> Oh no, a leprechaun!
02:40:20 <ais523> and it's random, but around 50 on the main path
02:40:31 <alise> "The leprechaun escapes upstairs!" -- Hey! He probably has my money!
02:40:43 <alise> Now, am I stupid enough to chase after him for the sake of some zorkmids?
02:40:54 <alise> ais523: where does it start getting actually hard?
02:41:08 <ais523> alise: never, if you're good enough
02:41:16 <ais523> but probably quite soon if you're inexperienced
02:41:31 <alise> ais523: presumably after dlvl 10, as this has been quite easy so far with the spoilers
02:41:47 <ais523> I'd say sometime around 15, probably
02:41:55 <ais523> or the bigroom, if it exists in your game
02:41:57 * alise thinks "Hmm, I should probably save, just in case"; realises that that won't help her in Nethack
02:42:55 <coppro> around the quest level sounds right
02:43:13 <coppro> usually I go to minetown after sokoban
02:43:49 <alise> ais523: I don't suppose Nethack features HM05?
02:44:03 <ais523> alise: water walking boots, I suppose
02:44:15 <coppro> should I be ashamed or proud that I got that right away?
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02:44:36 <alise> coppro: proud; I had to google it to remember the number, it's been a while
02:44:40 <ais523> you definitely will need levitation at some point, although you can delay that for quite a while yet
02:44:47 <alise> ais523: HM05 is Flash ...
02:44:50 <coppro> you'll probably pick up a ring anyways
02:44:53 <alise> I'm in an unlit room, you see.
02:44:56 <ais523> (surf is 3, isn't it/)
02:45:00 <alise> coppro: I have two rings.
02:45:06 <ais523> and the mines are where you go for lightsources
02:45:06 <coppro> I meant a ring of levitation
02:45:07 <alise> ais523: I think so; *it?)
02:45:11 <ais523> alise: coppro means a specific ring
02:45:17 <alise> I have a ring of wire and a ring of black onyx; not so interesting.
02:45:23 <ais523> anyway, most people just learn to live without light
02:45:25 <alise> Also a zinc wand. The worst material for a wand.
02:45:29 <ais523> you can still see most monsters, thanks to infravision
02:45:33 <ais523> alise: ID that wand, by the way
02:45:39 <ais523> engrave something with it (9 letters or less)
02:45:45 <ais523> "Elbereth" is a common choice
02:45:46 <alise> And ... with my fingers?
02:45:53 <ais523> engrave with fingers first
02:45:56 <ais523> then with wand on the same square
02:46:06 <ais523> then most of the time you can figure out what the wand is from its reaction
02:46:08 <alise> what's write again?
02:46:42 <Sgeo_> Oh, you may go blind
02:46:42 <alise> So just write Elbereth twice?
02:46:46 <coppro> 3 being surf sounds right; IIRC 2 is fly and 4 is strength. Beyond that it gets weird depending on the generation
02:46:56 <Sgeo_> alise, should be different words
02:46:58 <coppro> oh wait, you're testing a want
02:47:09 <Sgeo_> Second one Elbereth
02:47:11 <coppro> Sgeo_: that doesn't matter, does it?
02:47:15 <alise> Sgeo_: Too late; the first one was Elbereth.
02:47:18 <Sgeo_> Well, for lightning...
02:47:26 <Sgeo_> Do you really want to be blind on a non-E?
02:47:27 <ais523> Elbereth twice is fine
02:47:31 <alise> I don't care about *temporary* blindness.
02:47:39 <alise> The bugs on the floor stop moving!
02:47:51 <alise> ais523: I should hope for death, right?
02:47:52 <ais523> much more likely to be sleep
02:47:57 <coppro> sleep is useful, death is +++++ but very rare
02:47:58 <ais523> although yes, death's better
02:48:05 <alise> Any way to find out for sure?
02:48:11 <ais523> the important thing with both wands is to not catch yourself in the reflection
02:48:15 <ais523> and you'll find out first time you use it
02:48:17 <Sgeo_> Zap someone other than yourself.
02:48:22 <ais523> until then, you probably don't care which it is
02:48:25 <alise> Sgeo_: The leprechaun! (Nah.)
02:48:45 <alise> ais523: Sokoban has a high chance of making the game unwinnable if I suck at Sokoban, yeah?
02:48:55 <ais523> no, it never makes the game unwinnable
02:48:58 <ais523> because it's completely optional
02:49:04 <ais523> you may make the Sokoban branch itself unwinnable
02:49:05 <alise> ais523: but if I go in there, start doing it, get stuck --
02:49:09 <ais523> but that's no worse than just ignoring it
02:49:10 <alise> oh, you can come back out?
02:49:11 <coppro> alise: no; Sokoban is optional
02:49:17 <ais523> yes, you can go back out any time you want
02:49:17 <alise> well that's better than I thought
02:49:20 <coppro> I don't think you can make Sokoban completely unwinnable
02:49:26 <alise> How can I tell if an entrance goes to Sokoban?
02:49:29 <Sgeo_> Although you may incur luck penalties...
02:49:32 <alise> just go down it and look for -- ?
02:49:33 <coppro> you can come back with a scroll of earth/wands of striking
02:49:35 <Sgeo_> Unless there are other ways to go out?
02:49:38 <coppro> alise: Sokoban has an upstair
02:49:52 <alise> The priestess of Loki intones: "Pilgrim, you enter a sacred place!"--More--
02:49:57 <alise> coppro: just one? what if you block it off?
02:50:01 <Sgeo_> This is what money's good for
02:50:16 <alise> I have a strange foreboding feeling. Should I just, like, leave?
02:50:31 <coppro> alise: I mean that the stair to Sokoban goes up, rather than down, so you'll know it when you see it
02:50:42 <alise> coppro: indeed, I can see it.
02:50:48 <alise> now what about this preistly woman?
02:50:56 <coppro> also, if you are dumb enough to put a boulder on the upstair in Sokoban, you will have to destroy the boulder (incurring a luck penalty)
02:51:01 <Sgeo_> What happens if you donate to wrong alignment?
02:51:28 <coppro> alise: you're in a temple, you're not chaotic. You can use the altar to identify but don't do anything else
02:51:38 <alise> coppro: How many things can I identify?
02:51:47 <coppro> as much as you want, but only BUC-status
02:51:49 <alise> And will it accurately identify my wand, or just scrolls?
02:52:05 <alise> Should I just identify everything, then?
02:52:08 <coppro> basically drop your entire inventory on it
02:52:30 <coppro> whatever you do, don't attack the priest or offer to the altar
02:52:46 <alise> There is an amber flash as an orcish dagger hits the altar.
02:52:50 <alise> Is that ... am I ...?
02:53:09 <coppro> (don't both remembering; it will show up in the inventory)
02:53:28 <alise> coppro: Okay; dropped it all, apart from the stuff I'm wearing.
02:53:33 <ais523> Sgeo_: the same as donating to right alignment
02:53:38 <alise> I guess I could ID some more stuff.
02:54:22 <alise> coppro: I should just not pick up the cursed stuff, right?
02:54:30 <ais523> alise: cursed stuff is occasionally useful
02:54:33 <ais523> but normally you just discard it
02:54:47 <ais523> drop it in a corner so you don't forget where the altar is
02:55:07 <coppro> I'd try to sell it if that's an option
02:55:18 <alise> there's nobody really around
02:55:46 <coppro> there will be a bunch in minetown, you can probably unload when you head down there
02:56:04 <coppro> maybe wait to see if you can get a bag of holding from sokoban
02:56:04 <alise> okay; i should get food soon!
02:56:15 <alise> coppro: what happens if i skip sokoban, say by failing horribly?
02:56:28 <coppro> you miss out on the XP and the prize
02:56:39 <alise> that doesn't sound hugely terrible
02:56:43 <coppro> the prize is really good
02:56:52 <coppro> it's either an amulet of reflection or a bag of holding
02:57:02 <coppro> both of which are items you want to have
02:57:07 <alise> now what am I gonna do in the way of food?
02:57:18 <alise> coppro: how stupid on a scale of 1 to 1,000,000 is attacking the priest for food?
02:57:22 <ais523> pick it up off the floor, it's common in Sokoban
02:57:28 <ais523> alise: likely instadeath stupid
02:57:42 <alise> ais523: but what if i /don't/ instadie? :D
02:57:52 <ais523> then you're still in trouble
02:57:56 <alise> ais523: is it ok to explore the rest of this level before going down to sokoban?
02:57:58 <coppro> attacking a priest is a bad plan with a fully-leveled and fully-equipped character
02:58:08 <ais523> alise: Sokoban is /up/ from here
02:58:13 <ais523> and it depends on your food situation
02:58:14 <alise> ais523: right, right, whatever
02:58:18 <ais523> you can go in and out at will, remember
02:58:22 <alise> ais523: my food situation is 0, but i was satiated on the last level
02:58:28 <alise> how did you say i should discard my cursed chainmail?
02:58:41 <alise> coppro: unfortunately.
02:58:44 <ais523> oh, right, you still probably can't take that off
02:58:44 <alise> cursed -1 chainmail
02:58:51 <ais523> you could try dipping it in a fountain; that's risky, but not fatally risky
02:59:02 <coppro> you'll need holy water or a scroll of uncursing (or a fountain, as ais suggests)
02:59:04 <alise> You read: "Sparky -- he was a very good dog".
02:59:39 <alise> is there a way to transplant a savefile to nao?
02:59:50 <alise> if not, what is that telnet site that broadcasts your tty? ais523?
02:59:53 <ais523> because NAO is all about proving you aren't cheating
03:00:14 <coppro> I don't play nethack offline any more
03:00:26 <ais523> alise: there's a more complicated protocol to actually broadcast
03:00:30 <alise> coppro: you're North American; NAO isn't horribly slow for you.
03:00:31 <ais523> let me find a shellscript
03:00:36 <alise> ais523: i've done it before, it's something to do with script(1), right?
03:00:47 <alise> coppro: i'm playing very slowly, mind; in the realtime sense
03:00:50 <ais523> script -f >( cat ./ratry_login - | nc -q5 noway.ratry.ru 31337 > /dev/null ) "$@"
03:00:58 <ais523> where ratry_login contains "hello username password"
03:01:06 <alise> omg, there's no hobbit netcat on archlinux
03:01:10 <ais523> replace username and password by an actual username and password
03:01:11 <alise> ais523: how do you create a login again?
03:01:17 <alise> or is it automatic?
03:01:19 <ais523> it creates the login if it's a username it doesn't recognise
03:02:03 <alise> You feel wise! You must have been very observant.
03:02:03 <ais523> (credits: that script was written by sorear)
03:02:12 <alise> ais523: that script isn't copyrightable!
03:02:22 <ais523> I can stil avoid plagiarising it anyway
03:02:37 <ais523> plagiarism is slightly different to copyvio
03:05:48 <alise> ais523: so does that start a shell?
03:05:58 <alise> ais523: clearly not
03:06:02 <alise> $@ would be the command, I assume
03:06:02 <ais523> well, with no args it does
03:06:08 <ais523> if you give args, it runs those instead
03:07:59 <alise> head -100 /dev/random takes forever
03:08:12 <ais523> (also, why not /dev/urandom?)
03:08:12 <alise> ais523: to sha1sum it to get a password
03:08:17 <alise> ais523: because it's a password
03:08:19 <ais523> alise: heh, it hardly needs to be secure...
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03:08:52 <Sgeo_> alise, ping me if you go on NAO
03:09:17 <alise> nc: invalid option -- 'q'
03:09:33 <ais523> but has a tendency to keep running even after you've closed the terminal it was running in
03:09:36 <alise> ais523: how do you listen in?
03:10:00 <ais523> I've done that already, actually, just waiting for you to log in
03:10:01 <alise> ais523: bah, I don't have telnet :D
03:10:16 <ais523> "dinky" is your hostname?
03:11:11 <alise> ais523: can script's argument use shell stuff?
03:11:14 <ais523> alise: I know a NetHack player who plays black-on-white with colours on
03:11:14 <alise> or can it only be one word?
03:11:25 <ais523> alise: you can have multiple args, at least
03:11:34 <ais523> you might have to do sh -c in order to get actual shell parsing
03:11:44 <coppro> ais523: that would hurt my eyes
03:12:51 <alise> script -f >(cat ./ratry_login - | nc noway.ratry.ru 31337 >/dev/null) nethack
03:13:10 <ais523> presumably inside the recursively opened xterm?
03:13:27 <alise> ais523: something like that
03:13:49 <ais523> also, "sudo vi" not "sudoedit"?
03:14:09 <alise> huh, -e takes multiple arugments
03:14:42 <alise> exec uxterm -fa Mono -fs 10 +sb -bg black -fg white -title Nethack -e sh -c 'scr
03:14:42 <alise> ipt -f >(cat ./ratry_login - | nc noway.ratry.ru 31337 >/dev/null) nethack'
03:14:44 <alise> what a clusterfuck
03:14:58 <alise> let's hope it works
03:15:14 <ais523> for a moment I thought you were about to termcast recursively
03:15:23 <ais523> alise: let's hope it didn't delete your savefile
03:15:36 <ais523> I know I've done that with weird combos of nethack and script before now
03:15:53 * alise copies it to ~ just in case
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03:16:23 <alise> script finishes quickly
03:16:38 <alise> sh --run-at-startup '...'?
03:16:46 <ais523> that's what sh -c does
03:16:49 <ais523> except it exists just after
03:17:05 <ais523> I suppose you could put a ; sh in the end of your command list
03:17:15 <alise> exec uxterm -fa Mono -fs 10 +sb -bg black -fg white -title Nethack -e sh -c 'scr
03:17:15 <alise> ipt -f >(cat ./ratry_login - | nc noway.ratry.ru 31337 >/dev/null) nethack && ex
03:17:39 <alise> If the argument file is given, script saves all dialogue in file. If no
03:17:40 <alise> file name is given, the typescript is saved in the file typescript.
03:17:42 <alise> that's not what the $@ does
03:17:54 <ais523> do you have a typescript file called NetHack?
03:18:04 <ais523> I know what's happened
03:18:23 <ais523> but how can options to script come /after/ the >()
03:18:30 <ais523> my guess is that the $@ is just a mistake
03:19:56 <ais523> alise h was broadcasting nethack
03:20:02 <alise> yes, that was a test
03:20:05 <ais523> alise g seems redundant
03:20:09 <alise> sh doesn't support that syntax
03:21:10 <alise> ais523: nope, the $@ WAS right
03:22:28 <ais523> not particularly nutritional, admittedly
03:22:31 <ais523> but it's better than nothing
03:22:50 <alise> oops, i have nothing equipped
03:22:50 <ais523> try re-equipping your sword
03:23:27 <ais523> you may want to aim for Excalibur next, once you have the food situation under control
03:23:36 <alise> You can't resist the temptation to mimic a pile of gold.--More--
03:23:41 <alise> was eating that corpse a bad idea?
03:23:49 <ais523> sometimes tactically useful, too
03:23:54 <alise> wait, i'm /mimicking a dwarf/?
03:23:57 <ais523> say if monsters try to pick you up, you can ambush them
03:24:02 <alise> that's some Matrix shit nethack just pulled ther
03:24:14 <alise> yes, but it says otherwise :D
03:24:17 <alise> You now prefer mimicking a dwarf again.
03:24:19 <ais523> that isn't mimicking anything else
03:24:39 <alise> What kind of genetically-engineered mutant centipede is this?
03:25:28 <ais523> try not to hit your pet
03:25:37 <ais523> you can #chat before attacking to see if whatever's there mews
03:25:48 <ais523> and killer bee corpses are an interesting choice
03:25:55 <ais523> but also have a high chance of poison res
03:25:59 <ais523> so some people prefer to take the poison
03:26:10 <alise> sokoban doesn't have many baddies, right?
03:26:19 <ais523> and sokoban's relatively - but not completely - monsterfree
03:27:23 <alise> how long til i can see?
03:27:53 <Sgeo_> Black lights are fun!
03:28:02 -!- Gregor-P has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:28:21 <alise> ais523: shit! i just did 200<backspace>
03:28:26 -!- Gregor-P has joined.
03:28:29 <alise> ais523: what did that do?
03:28:46 <ais523> = go west until something interesting hapens
03:28:46 <Sgeo_> Wait, is alise on NAO?
03:28:55 <alise> telnet termcast.org
03:29:46 <alise> ais523: i'm sick of blindness
03:29:50 <Sgeo_> There are some times that you just DON'T wnat to feel what's on the floor
03:29:53 <ais523> well, it just finished
03:30:46 <alise> not worth dropping anything for that
03:31:02 <alise> the diagonal corridor
03:31:53 <Sgeo_> How can you see the ^?
03:32:02 <alise> Sgeo_: What do you mean?
03:32:05 <alise> Sgeo_: I see it with my eyes.
03:32:26 <ais523> Sgeo_: it's entirely visible
03:32:29 <Sgeo_> I meant, outside of Sokoban
03:32:29 <ais523> I don't know what you mean
03:32:34 <Sgeo_> There was a visible trap
03:32:38 <alise> because i walked into it
03:32:51 <alise> ais523: so, get the boulders into the pits, right?
03:33:06 <alise> ais523: how do i get to the other side? moving that boulder?
03:33:14 <ais523> move the leftmost boulder down one square
03:33:20 <ais523> then the top of the group of 4 to the right
03:33:23 <alise> ais523: no diagonal movement?
03:33:33 <ais523> at least, not between boulders/walls
03:33:40 <alise> wait, the top four?
03:33:44 * Sgeo_ almost made a mistake in his thoughts
03:33:54 <Sgeo_> That would have .. oh, done nothing fatal
03:33:56 <ais523> move the top of the group you're standing next to to the right
03:33:59 <ais523> the top of "that group of 4"
03:34:01 <Sgeo_> Just move this boulder right
03:34:15 <alise> ais523: til it touches the other O?
03:34:15 <ais523> two more spaces, so you can get past
03:34:24 <ais523> it's not like you can do anything else
03:34:34 <alise> down again, i presume?
03:34:35 <ais523> that one needs to move down one square
03:34:40 <Sgeo_> Wait, should there be some scrolls?
03:34:44 <ais523> now race to the good before Felix gets there
03:34:56 <ais523> Sgeo_: bottom-left; alise can't see them yet
03:35:11 <Sgeo_> Be careful with displacing your pet
03:35:22 <ais523> alise: no, wrong boulder
03:35:31 <alise> i am so terrible at sokoban
03:35:38 <ais523> try not to get Felix trapped behind the boulders
03:35:42 <Sgeo_> Don't know if that's fatal
03:35:46 <ais523> leave that one, there are spares
03:35:54 <Sgeo_> Don't displace your pet!
03:36:00 <alise> it wasn't the typing, it was the thinking
03:36:04 <ais523> there's no huge imperative not to
03:36:05 <alise> Sgeo_: i've done it thousands of times...
03:36:10 <Sgeo_> ais523, I thought he could get trapped in a pit
03:36:27 <ais523> Sgeo_: the important rule is to avoid trapping felix behind a boulder
03:36:31 <ais523> that has nothing to do with displacing
03:36:33 <alise> Hello, pony. What do you want?
03:36:35 <ais523> alise: ponies are /dangerous/
03:36:40 <ais523> it wants that melon you have, though
03:36:42 <alise> ais523: I know; I fought one a few levels ago.
03:36:44 <ais523> throw it at the pony and it'll become tame
03:36:49 <Sgeo_> I think a unicorn killed me on sokoban
03:36:56 <Sgeo_> I thess this isn't a unicorn though
03:37:12 <ais523> alise: those are scrolls of earth
03:37:13 <Sgeo_> There should be an esolang called pont
03:37:20 <ais523> also, turn on the hilite_pet option
03:37:23 <ais523> so you can tell pets from hostiles
03:37:47 <Sgeo_> I might have to resume my NAO game in here
03:37:56 <alise> ais523: so, has felix abandoned me? :P
03:38:02 <ais523> alise: no, he's just hiding somewhere
03:38:04 <alise> now i have two pets, great
03:38:16 <ais523> most people abandon their pets around Sokoban
03:38:50 <ais523> (I don't, btw; but I have more patience than many others)
03:39:01 <Sgeo_> My pets tend to die
03:39:08 <alise> The boulder falls into the pit. The pony neighs!--More--
03:39:11 <alise> You kill the poor pony! You hear the rumble of distant thunder...--More--
03:39:14 <ais523> if I'm going to abandon a pet, I do it early
03:39:17 <alise> Well, that solved that problem.
03:39:30 <alise> ais523: am I Evil now?
03:39:31 <ais523> oh well, at least the penalty for that wears off with time
03:39:38 <ais523> alise: alignment and luck penalty
03:39:46 <Sgeo_> alise, alignment doesn't change... well, not that sort of alignment
03:39:48 <ais523> quite a large one, but it wears off
03:39:51 <Sgeo_> You'll remain Lawful
03:40:05 <ais523> Sgeo_: unless she tries to convert an altar
03:40:10 <Sgeo_> erm, right. And he
03:40:21 <alise> and the IRC nick pronoun
03:40:23 <ais523> alise the valkyrie is female, valks always are
03:40:31 <ais523> and <alise> is a female nick
03:40:33 <alise> ais523: i like how it's better to be awful to a creature to start with rather than nice then awful
03:40:35 * Sgeo_ might not be thinking properly
03:40:40 <alise> that's a slightly strange kind of morality
03:40:44 <alise> for a game like this
03:40:48 <ais523> well, you can set the game to no pets if you like
03:41:02 <alise> ais523: this gets much harder, doesn't it?
03:41:12 <ais523> the first level's easy
03:41:18 <ais523> one of the level 2 variants is the hardest puzzle there, strangely
03:41:19 <Sgeo_> In Sokoban, there are only two possible maps per level
03:41:26 <ais523> (well, level 3, it's counted backwards for some reason)
03:41:39 <ais523> don't displace felix into the pit, btw
03:41:43 <ais523> that's only possible while you're inside
03:41:55 <ais523> by the way, did you name those scrolls you picked up?
03:42:00 <ais523> they're scrolls of earth, always
03:42:06 <alise> i've forgotten how to name
03:42:07 <ais523> so you may as well name them for reference
03:42:13 <ais523> then n to name a type of item
03:42:21 <alise> ZELGO MER, that is?
03:42:29 <Sgeo_> alise, that's what I remember
03:42:47 <ais523> besides, you don't seem to have two of anything else
03:42:54 <ais523> so that one must be earth
03:43:12 <alise> why don't winter fox cubs leave corpses?
03:43:17 <alise> and how am I still nourished?
03:43:28 <Sgeo_> Are you wearing any rings?
03:43:41 <ais523> alise: small creatures are unlikely to leave corpses
03:43:43 <Sgeo_> Or, maybe not enough time has passed
03:43:46 <ais523> and I don't think you've spent 900 turns
03:44:41 <Sgeo_> I never heard of a quasit before now
03:44:44 <Sgeo_> I would have eaten
03:44:58 <ais523> Sgeo_: if you don't know, ask pinobot
03:45:13 <ais523> or #nethack, or maybe Rodney if he has an entry on the monster's corpse
03:45:32 <Sgeo_> How do I ask pinobot?
03:45:32 <alise> Sgeo_: #!info name=monster
03:45:43 <ais523> alise: ugh, that's the hard variant
03:45:47 <ais523> it took me ages to figure out this one
03:45:58 <alise> ais523: yeah, uh, a solution would be nice
03:46:05 <Sgeo_> There are spoilers
03:46:15 <ais523> the horizontal corridor second-from-bottom, that's the first boulder you push
03:46:31 <Sgeo_> Pinobot helpfully only informed me that it confers poison resistance
03:46:43 <ais523> Sgeo_: wasn't "pois" on the list?
03:47:04 <Sgeo_> i | quasit | Spd: 15 | Small | Genocidable | Lvl: 3 | AC: 2 | MR: 20 | Difficulty: 7 | Align: -7 | Corpse wgt: 200 | Nutr: 200 | Conveys: poison resistance | Atk: claw drain dex 1d2, claw drain dex 1d2, bite physical 1d4 | Flags: poison resistance, regen, stalk, infravision, infravisible, imp, drain resistance
03:47:20 <ais523> hmm, did I remember wrong?
03:47:35 <Sgeo_> Or the bot's useless
03:47:48 <alise> Sgeo_: no, it's autogenerated
03:47:49 <Sgeo_> What's a poisonous corpse?
03:47:50 <ais523> Rodney confirms, quasits really aren't poisonous
03:47:53 <ais523> sorry, alise, misremembered
03:48:09 <alise> ugh, i don't feel like deciphering the move format use din http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Sokoban_Level_2a
03:48:37 <ais523> I'm not 100% confident I remember the solution to this one; more like 90%
03:49:00 <Sgeo_> Someone could just decypher into channel
03:49:15 <alise> http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Sokoban_Level_2a :P
03:49:30 <alise> there is a reason i wanted to skip sokoban
03:50:01 <alise> Sgeo_: but it uses its own move syntax
03:50:11 <alise> which i will have to decipher in my semi-tired state
03:50:26 <Sgeo_> I can just spam the channel, of course
03:50:48 <Sgeo_> You already moved stuff around
03:51:01 <alise> yeah, i'm following it
03:51:31 <alise> what's the space for
03:53:01 <alise> ais523: why god why?
03:53:21 <ais523> take that C_ration, btw
03:53:22 <alise> anything lootable here?
03:53:27 <ais523> not as good as food ration, but good food
03:54:43 <ais523> sorry, I'm busy watching the final stages of a DCSS tournament
03:54:57 <ais523> dungeon crawl stone soup
03:55:01 <ais523> one of NetHack's competitors
03:55:13 <Sgeo_> NetHack has competition?
03:55:17 <alise> ais523: i killed a housecat
03:55:29 <alise> ais523: it left no corpse
03:55:38 <alise> ais523: it was felix, wasn't it?
03:56:03 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style.).
03:56:51 <alise> a pancake sounds nice for a weak character, don't you think?
03:56:54 <Sgeo_> Any messages when you killed it?
03:58:14 <alise> ais523: good to eat?
03:58:27 <alise> ais523: no it's not
03:58:28 <ais523> not massively nutritious, but very delicious
03:58:37 <alise> ais523: i meant the corpse, you !!
03:58:48 <alise> Blecch! Rotten food! The world spins and goes dark.--More--
03:58:54 <alise> A mysterious force prevents the black unicorn from teleporting!--More--
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03:58:57 <ais523> the blecch is a random side effect that can happen to anything
03:59:00 <alise> You are conscious again.
03:59:10 <ais523> now, unicorns = dangerous
03:59:19 <ais523> but unicorns = unihorn source
03:59:45 <ais523> look what it did to your HP
03:59:51 <alise> can i eat its corpse? :D
04:00:11 <ais523> and finish the unicorn, if you weren't satiated when you started it's safe to finish
04:00:18 <ais523> (they give poison res, often)
04:00:28 <ais523> (although not that time it seems)
04:00:34 <ais523> don't eat anything further
04:00:39 <ais523> until you're unsatiated again
04:01:00 <alise> ais523: this is ridiculous for a second level of a segment
04:01:01 <Sgeo_> THat's one of the easier bits to remember, guess you haven't heard it yet
04:01:16 <alise> ais523: i'm having trouble just following the spoiler
04:01:19 <ais523> alise: it's the hardest of the eight levels, IMO
04:02:36 <Sgeo_> DCSS has automatic exploration?
04:02:39 <Sgeo_> How does that work?
04:03:15 <ais523> Sgeo_: you press o, and it explores until a monster turns up
04:03:23 <ais523> or something happens that actually requires a player decisoin
04:03:24 <alise> ais523: "lr" --spoiler
04:03:34 <ais523> DCSS has really large maps, and mostly boring ones
04:03:37 <ais523> so an autoexplore makes sense
04:04:16 <alise> ais523: am I doing well in general, btw?
04:04:27 <alise> i realise i've had an inordinate amount of help but i've never got remotely near here before :P
04:04:33 <ais523> standard valk, which is pretty impressive given it's a newbie playing
04:04:58 <ais523> although experienced players would have been more efficient, and thus had less of a food problem
04:05:17 <ais523> anyway, feel free to eat poisonous stuff from now on, as your unihorn will just unpoison you again
04:05:23 <alise> ais523: i'm mostly going slowly to make sure i don't miss stuff and to grind-train but i guess that doesn't matter so much
04:05:29 <alise> (I was worried about ending up in a difficult section unprepared)
04:05:37 <ais523> valks rule the earlygame
04:06:09 <Sgeo_> But almost always, I'm a wizard
04:06:11 <alise> ais523: is that snake going to be an issue?
04:06:17 <ais523> what sort of snake is it?
04:06:20 <Sgeo_> Maybe I'd be better off with a valk again?
04:06:31 <ais523> not until you end up in combat with it
04:06:44 <ais523> and although pythons are rather powerful, you should be able to beat it, especially if you spam Elbereth pre-emptively
04:07:15 <ais523> kill it at range if you can
04:07:22 <ais523> but you probably can't
04:07:33 <alise> Worth a shot, right?
04:07:38 <ais523> daggers are better for throwing
04:07:43 <ais523> especially as you actually have skill with them
04:07:44 <pikhq> alise: Knives? In Britain?
04:07:45 <alise> I have that too, but orcish, but blessed.
04:07:50 <pikhq> alise: But you might HURT SOMEONE!
04:07:51 <ais523> or you could try the poisoned arrows
04:08:02 <ais523> the best you're likely to do is soften it up, though
04:08:24 <ais523> werewolves are immune to Elbereth, btw
04:08:40 <ais523> there's a trice behind you
04:08:46 <ais523> ok, it didn't affect you that turn
04:08:54 <ais523> werewolves are affected in animal form
04:08:57 <ais523> werewolves are affected in animal form
04:09:02 <ais523> except the turn after they transformed
04:09:04 <alise> what of the cockatrice? let it be?
04:09:07 <ais523> stack several Elbereths
04:09:17 <ais523> it can't attack you while you're on an Elbereth square
04:09:24 <Sgeo_> Don't go blind and stumble on the square with its corpse
04:09:30 <Sgeo_> Have a lizard ready
04:09:39 <coppro> if you have gloves on, it's fine
04:09:43 <ais523> live trices aren't really that dangerous
04:09:51 <ais523> and unfortunately, alise isn't wearing gloves
04:10:33 <Sgeo_> I assume adventurers are assumed to have shoes?
04:10:44 <ais523> Sgeo_: no, but they're assumed to not step on corpses if they can help it
04:10:53 <alise> ais523: cockatrice is back
04:10:55 <ais523> alise: just kill the trice
04:11:03 <ais523> so long as you're weilding a weapon, it's safe to attack
04:11:07 <alise> ais523: it touched me! How inappropriate.
04:11:11 <ais523> so you don't have to worry about that
04:11:38 <Sgeo_> Well, when you're blind and moving without feeling the ground...
04:12:12 <ais523> coyotes should be a pushover at this point
04:12:30 <Sgeo_> Where's your turn counter?
04:12:35 <Sgeo_> Why is it disabled by default?
04:12:36 <alise> Sgeo_: i don't have one
04:12:45 <alise> how do I turn it on?
04:13:00 <ais523> rather slower than most experienced players
04:13:12 <alise> "Now it depends on whether you want to be able to have all the boulders freely moving after you finish the level. In this solution all boulders can be moved freely. Create a pathway on the right, enter the middle room and remove boulder B and restore pathway in the left:"
04:13:46 <ais523> it can't infect you /again/
04:13:53 <alise> Whoa, a lot of leather armor.
04:14:03 <ais523> (leather armor's pretty worthless)
04:14:05 <Sgeo_> Does unihorn fix lycanthropy?
04:14:10 <alise> ais523: Last time I got lycantrophic I just prayed.
04:14:11 <ais523> it fixes lots of things, but not that
04:14:16 <alise> It's been long enough since then to pray again.
04:14:18 <ais523> alise: could work this time, although repeated prayer is risky
04:14:26 <Sgeo_> Don't pray with - luck
04:14:32 <alise> ais523: I last prayed /ages/ ago, in that big hunger
04:14:33 <ais523> when did alise kill Felix?
04:14:42 <alise> ais523: i'm not sure i did
04:14:49 <Sgeo_> You killed your pony
04:14:51 <alise> although i don't know what became of felix
04:14:56 <alise> probably got killed
04:15:00 <alise> Sgeo_: true, that was a while ago though
04:15:03 <ais523> I can't remember if that's a 600- or 900-turn timeout
04:15:04 <alise> last screen, and this one has been hectic
04:15:14 <alise> ais523: ok, any suggestions then?
04:15:17 <ais523> actually, 1200 or 1800
04:15:35 <ais523> you could just live with the lycanthropy, although that's a pain
04:15:38 <Sgeo_> Did I just possibly save alise?
04:15:46 <alise> ais523: I moved that block to my right right
04:15:49 <ais523> alise: still loads of spares
04:15:49 <alise> ais523: I was meant to move it LEFT
04:15:54 <alise> ais523: yes, but now I can't use the solution
04:15:59 <ais523> move the one below you right, then up
04:16:00 <alise> Sgeo_: Probably :P
04:16:14 <alise> ais523: Indeed. Whoops.
04:16:21 <alise> ais523: I've Royally Fucked This One Up.
04:16:27 <ais523> let's see, you need 5 boulders to finish
04:16:31 <alise> With a capital royally fucked this one up.
04:16:34 <ais523> the one near the bottom is completely free, and obvious
04:17:02 <ais523> and you can free up 7 others
04:17:18 <ais523> well, you've escaped your cursed ring mail
04:17:24 <ais523> it won't fit on a wolf body
04:18:08 <ais523> hmm, I might risk prayer now, although the downsides if it doesn't work are quite large
04:18:18 <ais523> (they'll effectively prevent you from praying again for ages)
04:19:14 <alise> ais523: maybe I'll just s for a while?
04:19:29 <alise> how long; 50 turns?
04:19:31 <ais523> although it'll hunger you and get monsters to turn up
04:19:37 <alise> ok, what about #monsters?
04:19:58 <alise> ais523: I think it's praying time
04:20:04 <ais523> well, it'll turn you back if you like
04:20:11 <ais523> running out of HP in monster form = turn into player form
04:20:18 <ais523> although you'll then not have your equipment on you
04:20:47 <alise> ais523: correction, I still have my chain mail
04:21:10 <ais523> it just hit you for half your remaining HP
04:21:18 <Mathnerd314> so, anyone have a good solution to the expression problem?
04:21:20 <alise> in the midst of combat
04:21:28 <alise> if i'd just been more patient
04:21:32 <alise> i was so desperate to defend myself
04:21:35 <Sgeo_> Requiest in Peace, Elliott
04:21:57 <alise> ais523: AceHack suggestion: "Undo The Last Three Fucking Retarded Moves I Just Did"
04:22:24 <ais523> low HP is a lot more visible in AceHack than regular NetHack
04:22:31 <Sgeo_> I saw when your HP was down to 17 or 7 (forget which)
04:22:54 <Sgeo_> I tried to say something. Maybe I shoupd have just said HP
04:23:01 <alise> ais523: has nethack been known to cause depression?
04:23:27 <alise> ais523: see, that'd have been better if it was more gradual rather than doing this well on my first game :D
04:23:56 <alise> one where you don't get past the first screen hardly counts
04:23:57 <Sgeo_> Might it be better to play on NAO now?
04:24:04 <ais523> Sgeo_: NAO's a bitch from the UK
04:24:08 <ais523> NEU tends to work better
04:24:12 <ais523> at least it's in the right continent
04:24:14 <alise> and ais523 doesn't often swear :P
04:24:20 <ais523> that isn't a swearword
04:24:22 <alise> this is the fastest version
04:24:27 <alise> ais523: well, bitch as a derogatory term for something is
04:24:35 <alise> Sgeo_: I care very little.
04:24:41 <alise> "You are dead." you don't say
04:24:52 <Sgeo_> Your death announced in #nethack
04:25:02 <alise> it's just got announced here
04:25:56 <ais523> no, while not paying attention to HP
04:26:13 <ais523> oh, must be while putting on armor
04:26:15 <alise> _________)/\\_//(\/(/\)/\//\/|_)_______
04:26:19 <alise> (i was busy equipping armour)
04:26:32 <ais523> alise: if it's any consolation, the armour-equip code is hugely inconsistent in the way it handles time
04:26:39 <alise> ais523: it wouldn't have saved me
04:26:48 <alise> ais523: I should have prayed as soon as I became low on HP
04:26:57 <ais523> or Elberethed as soon as you rehumanised
04:27:07 <Sgeo_> What happens with elbereth as monster?
04:27:09 <alise> ais523: I'd start again... but it's half four.
04:27:13 <alise> Sgeo_: you run away from yourself
04:27:19 <alise> Sgeo_: Tomorrow, then, I will.
04:27:32 <ais523> Sgeo_: I don't think jackals are physically capable of engraving
04:27:38 <ais523> apart from that, it works just fine
04:27:56 <alise> Well this is irritating.
04:28:18 <alise> ais523: if I copy back my slightly older save file, nethack will creep into my window while i sleep and slit my throat, won't it?
04:28:24 <alise> (I copied it in case my script broke it)
04:28:38 <ais523> alise: all of #nethack and rgrn will bitch at you
04:28:42 <Sgeo_> alise, what script?
04:28:49 <ais523> and it's not considered to be a very good learning experience
04:28:52 <alise> Sgeo_: the termcast one
04:29:03 <ais523> but it won't be so bad that people kill you in RL. Probably.
04:30:10 <alise> ais523: well, at least i've proved to myself that i have the attention span for nethack
04:30:21 <ais523> except when fighting tigers
04:30:31 <alise> it's quite strange, how i enjoy it
04:30:35 <alise> it's like a mild, background enjoyment
04:30:48 <alise> Sgeo_: Yes, I died to a tiger! Without armour!
04:31:07 <Sgeo_> I meant, that's how you enjoy it
04:31:29 <ais523> dying can be fun too, but the actual play is generally better
04:31:30 <alise> ais523: I think I did fairly well there.
04:31:38 <alise> For my first real game.
04:31:49 <ais523> alise: http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?t=9571 if you're interested
04:32:00 <ais523> it's someone else's Let's Play of NetHack, and one of the better ones on that site
04:33:37 <alise> ais523: i think a "GUI" interface using the ascii tiles but that has a little tooltip with the output of ; appear if you hover over a tile would be really useful
04:33:58 <ais523> NETHAX did that, while it still existed
04:34:04 <ais523> although it was pretty awful in other ways
04:34:19 <alise> ajax nethack? how strange
04:34:19 <ais523> ; can certainly be improved, say by showing descriptions without having to press .
04:34:25 <ais523> alise: yes, AJAX NetHack
04:34:30 <alise> ais523: yes, but simply moving the cursor around is irritating
04:34:35 <alise> hovering would be so much nicer, the mouse is designed for that
04:34:53 <ais523> if I ever make tiles AceHack, I'll think about it
04:35:05 <alise> ais523: on that let's play:
04:35:07 <alise> "In NetHack? None. I've never even made it to Sokoban."
04:35:13 <alise> HAH AT SOME POINT IN THE PAST HE WAS INFERIOR TO ME.
04:35:17 <alise> ais523: doesn't need tiles, just use the ascii
04:35:23 <alise> but in an x11 window
04:35:28 <ais523> by "tiles", I mean "non-tty build"
04:35:31 <alise> IMPLEMENT EVERY FEATURE NOW :P
04:35:39 <ais523> commonly, tiles that look exactly like ASCII characters are used
04:35:56 <alise> that doesn't let you configure font, though >:D
04:36:40 <alise> ais523: urgh, that let's play uses tiles
04:36:51 <ais523> it isn't an awful tileset, though
04:36:58 <ais523> the tiles are based on letters
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04:37:38 <alise> what do cockatrice corpses do again?
04:38:11 <ais523> turn things to stone, on contact
04:38:28 <ais523> this is applied pretty liberally throughout NetHack
04:38:36 <ais523> they can turn things to stone in over thirty different ways
04:38:40 <ais523> there's a list of them somewhere
04:38:49 <alise> there's more than thirty ways to stone a monster
04:39:21 <ais523> most of the actions involved aren't ones monsters actually do
04:39:26 <ais523> either because it isn't in their AI, or because they know better
04:40:01 <alise> there's more than thirty ways to stone a player
04:40:32 <coppro> and none of them involve cannabis
04:40:58 <alise> i was going to make that reference but deemed it too cheesy
04:45:46 <alise> ais523: RIP Felix, btw
04:45:59 <alise> I'm not sure whether me or a monster killed him, but there you go.
04:46:06 <ais523> how did you determine that?
04:46:06 <alise> Also RIP anonymous pony.
04:46:26 <alise> ais523: well, felix disappeared for a while, i fought an easy housecat, a bunch of difficult monsters attacked me after that, and I never saw Felix again
04:46:40 <alise> therefore either he was the housecat, or one of the monsters got him
04:46:46 <ais523> killing /both/ your pets is actually kind-of impressive
04:46:54 <alise> i must have had terrible karma
04:47:09 <alise> i killed that pony by rolling it into a pit with a boulder, how awesome is that????
04:47:27 <ais523> NetHack deaths are often awesome
04:48:40 <alise> i wish i'd died by the tiger rolling me into a pit with a boulder
04:49:09 <ais523> the only monsters that use boulders are giants
04:49:15 <ais523> and they don't roll them, they throw them
04:49:23 <ais523> giants can be an interesting challenge
04:50:36 <coppro> anyone have the URL to the rotating SVG google?
04:53:33 <Sgeo_> You could google it
04:59:33 <Sgeo_> <Trilby> Green cards per players: Sgeo - 4, hurristat - 3, Maximinus - 8, NPCApple - 5
04:59:43 <Sgeo_> Maximinus - nearly twice as human as a bot!
05:00:02 <coppro> looks like it was taken down
05:00:14 <Sgeo_> alise, shouldn't you be sleeping?
05:00:36 <Sgeo_> #applestoapples in Foonetic
05:00:41 <coppro> Sgeo_: A2A with a bot...
05:00:51 <coppro> that's such a bad idea
05:00:57 <coppro> also, is that run by Dritz?
05:01:03 <alise> apples to SNAPPLES
05:01:09 <Sgeo_> Not the bot. The ...game... bot
05:01:18 <coppro> Sgeo_: NPCApple is not a bot?
05:01:34 <alise> the game-running bot, Trilby, is Dritz's
05:01:36 <alise> note: I know nothing of this
05:01:39 <alise> I'm just good at parsing
05:01:56 <coppro> my question is, how does it make sense to play A2A against a bot
05:01:57 <alise> note: you get this
05:02:11 <Sgeo_> coppro, there were few players and we were desperate
05:02:18 <Sgeo_> Also, it made surprisingly good plays
05:02:19 <alise> desperate for comfort
05:02:25 <Sgeo_> At least, as judged by our judges
05:02:27 <coppro> Sgeo_: ping me next time, I might come over
05:02:35 <coppro> what if it's the judge? does it pick randomly?
05:02:50 <Sgeo_> It picks the same way as it picks cards from its hand, apparently
05:03:52 <coppro> ah, there's some heuristic?
05:04:13 <Sgeo_> I have no clue what it is, though
05:04:21 <Sgeo_> I've never even heard of applestoapples before today, actually
05:04:47 <Sgeo_> No, not true, even ignoring the technicality of my timezone
05:04:55 <Sgeo_> I was in that channel once before, according to logs
05:05:14 <Sgeo_> I just remember absolutely nothing
05:05:55 <coppro> how'd you find out about it?
05:06:06 <Sgeo_> Someone mentioned it in another channel
05:07:28 <coppro> (I didn't know about the channel, but I've been poking around there, so when you said it was on foonetic Dritz came to mind)
05:08:14 <Sgeo_> <Knife> I mean, he managed to play "Mom's cooking" on "deadly"....
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05:20:14 <zzo38> The thing about magical system in Icosahedral RPG, is, it is mathematical!
05:20:29 * coppro has considered trying out Paranoia
05:20:59 <coppro> I perused the sourcebook today; it looks Highly Entertaining
05:21:46 <alise> murphy had a paranoia nomic thing going on at one point
05:21:48 <oerjan> coppro: YOU ARE NOT CLEARED FOR THAT INFORMATION, CITIZEN
05:22:00 <oerjan> PLEASE REPORT FOR TERMINATION
05:22:01 <zzo38> coppro: I thought perusing the sourcebook is considered cheating in Paranoia? But I don't know, I never played (and might not ever? possibly?)
05:22:03 <ais523> coppro: BlogNomic inspired you?
05:22:16 <ais523> zzo38: actually, letting on that you know the rules is against the rules
05:22:24 <ais523> it's perfectly fine to know them, so long as you don't admit to it
05:22:58 <zzo38> ais523: O, sorry, now I know. (Now I am cheating too.)
05:23:23 <Sgeo_> The biggest lie ever: "I have read and agree to the Terms of Use".
05:23:28 <coppro> ais523: have you played it or is this Wikipediad?
05:23:40 <ais523> coppro: I have played it, three times I think
05:23:59 <Sgeo_> You break the Computer's rules in Paranoia anyway
05:24:21 <Sgeo_> I GMed a game once
05:24:41 <Sgeo_> Someone suggested that the worst thing I did was listen to one of the other players
05:24:45 <Sgeo_> Well, one person said that
05:25:03 <zzo38> (Also, I can now usually know the title of the page I am looking for on Wikipedia directly, so I can just type C-l :w and type it in without having to search first.)
05:25:22 <Sgeo_> The place where I was hosting the log got my password recently
05:25:34 <Sgeo_> I cleared out the malware-containing stuff, but never changed the password
05:25:42 <Sgeo_> So now everything's reinfected
05:26:07 <coppro> ais523, Sgeo_: You are not answering my question, in violation of good sense and decency. Please respond or face punishment.
05:26:20 <ais523> coppro: oh, I didn't see the question
05:26:23 <ais523> it's fun to play as a one-off
05:26:28 <Sgeo_> I haven't played much
05:26:31 <ais523> although it would probably get tiresome as a continuing campaign
05:27:20 <oerjan> in fact i'm always dead serious.
05:28:32 <alise> oerjan: zombies can't walk
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05:30:44 <Sgeo_> I'm about to repost the log
05:30:54 <alise> A safe, warm place.
05:31:03 <Sgeo_> As soon as I figure out sed to a good enough degree to remove the malicious script
05:31:22 <alise> What malicious script?
05:31:33 <zzo38> What log do you mean?
05:31:51 <Sgeo_> Of the game I GMed
05:32:03 <Sgeo_> coppro, A2A is starting
05:32:04 <alise> Sgeo_: what malicious script?
05:32:08 <Sgeo_> I won't be participating though
05:32:19 <Sgeo_> alise, I use a friend's hosting for stuff... the diagonalfish one
05:32:30 <Sgeo_> Malicious stuff was added. I removed it, but never changed the password
05:32:39 <zzo38> Sgeo_: What did you use to make the log, and why does it have a malicious script?
05:32:40 <alise> Sgeo_: umm ... just edit it out with an editor?
05:33:01 <Sgeo_> alise, good idea, ty
05:33:11 <Sgeo_> Why are you still up?
05:33:15 <alise> Sgeo_: That was an incredible bout of stupidity, no matter who did that.
05:33:23 <alise> Because I have no reason to go to bed right now.
05:33:54 <Sgeo_> It's your fault you said "a safe, warm place"
05:34:13 <pikhq> alise cares not for the cycles of your daystar!
05:34:26 <alise> i need blackout blinds.
05:35:37 <Sgeo_> http://snyfarvu.farmingdale.edu/~goldsj6/paranoia.htm
05:35:48 <zzo38> In Icosahedral RPG: The mana cost of a spell consists of numbers and values (w,u,b,r,g,X), all of which are commutative (although spells themself are not commutative).
05:35:53 <alise> Sgeo_: what about it?
05:36:01 <zzo38> The level of a spell is calculated from the mana cost by setting w=u=b=r=g=1 and X=0.
05:36:13 <Sgeo_> I misremembered where public_html was and thought it went missing, is all
05:36:26 <alise> are you sure you want to reveal your SURNAME OMG
05:36:41 <alise> and the FIRST LETTER OF YOUR NAME
05:36:47 <alise> and what might be your middle name
05:36:54 <alise> (middle initial, that is)
05:37:19 <Sgeo_> And that I go to FARMINGDALE
05:37:28 <coppro> zzo38: that was totally not based on Magic
05:37:33 <zzo38> A mana can be constructed from prime manas like positive integers can be constructed from prime numbers. There are five prime manas: w,u,b,r,g.
05:37:58 <alise> Sgeo_: And SNYFARVU
05:38:13 <zzo38> For example: If a mana cost of a spell is (2u+3) then the level is 5, and if a mana cost is (Xrrb+6r) then the level is 6.
05:38:15 <Sgeo_> I managed to slow it down to a crawl once and get other people in trouble
05:38:44 <zzo38> A mana you have can be general-use or assigned to a class.
05:39:09 <coppro> oerjan: do you play Magic?
05:39:20 <zzo38> It is possible to calculate a spell added, subtracted, multiplied, divided, raised to a power of, another spell.
05:39:45 <alise> oerjan, zzo38, easy mistake to make
05:40:02 <coppro> the keys are like right next to each other
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05:40:18 <zzo38> Yes, I can play Magic: the Gathering. However this system is different (although somewhat based on it).
05:40:35 <alise> coppro: i too have a zzo38 key on my keyboard
05:40:41 <alise> (it's next to the any key)
05:41:23 <coppro> zzo38: yeah, I noticed. my brain hurts already (btw wubrg was the obvious giveaway)
05:44:00 <zzo38> alise: How can you have a zzo38 key on your keyboard (or why)? That doesn't even make sense?
05:44:07 <Sgeo_> coppro pronounces ZPM as Zed PM
05:44:09 <alise> zzo38: Why doesn't it?
05:44:20 <alise> zzo38: I press it and it inserts "zzo38".
05:44:24 <alise> zzo38: Right next to the Any key.
05:44:26 <coppro> Sgeo_: duh. Meredith is totally right on that one.
05:44:29 <zzo38> alise: It just doesn't make sense......
05:45:00 <zzo38> Some on-screen keyboards have a key to insert ".com" but that doesn't make sense either, at least it makes slightly more sense than one that inserts "zzo38"
05:45:09 <zzo38> Unless it is a macro key. If it is a macro key, it can make sense.
05:45:17 <alise> Nope, it's a bona-fide zzo38 key.
05:45:19 <alise> Sgeo_: No it's not :<
05:45:31 <alise> maybe it is SLIGHTLY a joke
05:45:33 <zzo38> alise: What kind of keyboard do you have, anyways? Does it have a F13 key?
05:45:51 <zzo38> And F14 and F15 and F16 key?
05:46:05 <alise> zzo38: Yes, in fact it has up to F34.
05:46:10 <alise> It also has three numlocks.
05:46:19 <alise> It's a BIT of a STRANGE keyboard.
05:47:02 <zzo38> alise: Yes, I suppose it is a bit strange........
05:47:26 <alise> It also has a "Detonate Nuclear Missiles" button.
05:47:29 <alise> Right next to the Q button.
05:47:46 <zzo38> alise: To the left or to the right? Or in a different direction?
05:48:06 <alise> Q, Detonate Nuclear Missiles, W, E, K, T, Y, I, U, O, P
05:48:19 <alise> it's the rare qwekty layout -- ibm made this in late 70s, early 80s
05:48:24 <alise> i have an adapter plugged in
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05:48:52 <zzo38> I doubt IBM ever built such a keyboard with everything like that you mention, you must have built it yourself, if in fact it actually exists at all
05:50:23 <zzo38> In Icosahedral RPG, the method for paying mana cost of a spell can be formally mathematically described as follows (note: you hardly ever need this long formal dsecription, you can simplify it a lot): After selecting the non-negative integer in place of X, rewrite the mana cost as a sum of manas.
05:51:10 <zzo38> And then, you can multiply any of the terms by any manas. And then remove manas from the class manas that are the same as each term.
05:52:45 <zzo38> (The mana cost of a spell can be described as terms consisting of non-negative integers multiplied by manas, where X is a variable.)
05:54:03 <zzo38> ??Is this sensible to you??
05:54:39 <ais523> it seems to use the word "mana" in several unrelated contexts
05:54:41 <ais523> which makes it hard to follow
05:54:42 <coppro> as sensible as anything else I here in here
05:54:44 <Sgeo_> What's the point of the formal definition?
05:56:00 <coppro> signs that I might want to leave a channel: there has been 0 activity in 60 hours (not even joins/parts)
05:56:31 <zzo38> ais523: The word "mana" is not used in several unrelated contexts in this game. It is used as a mathematical quantity (which is commutative), or as a mana that you have in a class or general-use, which is also a instance of one of these mathematical quantities.
05:56:32 <Sgeo_> Are there other people physically in there?
05:56:44 <coppro> how can a quantity be commutative?
05:57:07 <zzo38> coppro: That means that (wu)=(uw) for example (where that means (w) multiplied by (u))
05:57:20 <coppro> so multiplication of mana is commutative, you mean
05:57:36 <zzo38> Multiplication of spells is *not* commutative, however.
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05:58:31 <zzo38> (A mana being commutative is actually (as far as I can tell) implied by the definition of a "mana" given above)
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05:59:11 <coppro> zzo38: saying that a qantity is commutative is not only meaningless but confusing
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05:59:31 <zzo38> coppro: How is it confusing?
05:59:31 <coppro> only operations can have commutativity
05:59:46 <coppro> and there can be multiple operations on a quantity, some of which are commutative and some of which aren't
05:59:52 <coppro> for instance, would you say numbers are commutative?
06:01:30 <zzo38> coppro: Normal numbers (including complex numbers) are commutative, but hypercomplex numbers are not commutative.
06:01:54 <zzo38> (Meta-complex numbers are commutative, however.)
06:01:59 <coppro> zzo38: what about 2^3 not being equal to 3^2
06:02:01 <ais523> zzo38: no, multiplication is commutative over complex numbers, but not over quaternions
06:02:11 <ais523> this is a property of multiplication, not of the numbers themselves
06:02:20 <ais523> just like addition is commutative over both, and exponentiation is commutative over neither
06:03:23 <zzo38> To me, that is how I abbreviate it, it should be assumed multiplication is meant (and that if you specify it just saying "these numbers are commutative", that addition is also commutative)
06:03:38 <zzo38> coppro: That is because exponent is not commutative
06:03:54 <Sgeo_> Well, don't abbreviate it
06:03:58 <coppro> you cannot say that "numbers" are commutative because they aren't
06:04:20 <ais523> well, unless your numbers are functions themselves
06:04:33 <coppro> don't misuse terminology if you're attempting to make a formal definition especially
06:04:33 <Sgeo_> Someone should make an esolang that does that
06:04:43 <ais523> I can easily imagine (2 3 4) being valid in a lisp-like esolang, or 3 `2` 4 in a Haskell-like esolang
06:05:02 <ais523> and it's common to use functions to represent numbers in Unlambda and Underlambda
06:05:57 <ais523> although they tend to be unary functions rather than binary, you can always uncurry
06:06:36 * Sgeo_ wonders how this can apply to the AW computer
06:11:38 * Sgeo_ takes his main ingredient in some OTC sleeping pills + hormone
06:15:01 <pikhq> coppro: Would you prefer a suppository?
06:15:33 <coppro> you have made my life better
06:16:21 <coppro> btw you should join blognomic
06:16:25 <coppro> next dynasty will be fun
06:18:32 <Sgeo_> Why would that work/
06:18:58 <oerjan> !haskell main = print $ 3 `2` 4
06:20:04 <oerjan> i was just wondering if it was a parse error (in which case you cannot do that in haskell) or a type error (in which case you could fix it with a Num instance for functions)
06:20:12 <oerjan> alas it's a parse error
06:21:10 <ais523> sadly, EgoBot seems not to know
06:21:13 <oerjan> !haskell :t 2 (3 :: Int) (4 :: Int)
06:21:14 <EgoBot> 2 (3 :: Int) (4 :: Int) :: (Num (Int -> Int -> t)) => t
06:21:32 <ais523> according to my ghci, 2 3 4 :: (Num (t1 -> t2 -> t), Num t1, Num t2) => t
06:21:37 <oerjan> the type was too ambiguous i guess
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06:23:10 <oerjan> i guess EgoBot is set with too strict options to give an answer or something
06:23:40 <oerjan> and if :t gives an error/warning, we'll never know
06:23:46 <coppro> pikhq: have you never played BN?
06:24:40 <ais523> ghci didn't give an error or warning when I tried
06:25:30 <oerjan> no but EgoBot may be using -wall or something?
06:25:54 <oerjan> !sh ls interps/haskell
06:25:54 <EgoBot> /bin/ls: cannot access interps/haskell: No such file or directory
06:26:26 <oerjan> !sh ls interps/ | fmt -w100
06:26:26 <EgoBot> 1l 2l Makefile adjust axo befunge bf_txtgen bfjoust boof c-intercal cat cfunge clc-intercal
06:26:51 <oerjan> !sh ls interps/ | fmt -w500
06:26:53 <EgoBot> 1l 2l Makefile adjust axo befunge bf_txtgen bfjoust boof c-intercal cat cfunge clc-intercal dimensifuck egobch egobf fukyorbrane gcccomp gforth_quit ghc glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl
06:27:22 <oerjan> !sh ls interps/ghc | fmt -w500
06:27:44 <oerjan> !sh fmt -w500 interps/ghc/runghc
06:27:44 <EgoBot> #!/bin/bash if ! ghc -O2 -e "`cat $1`" 2> /dev/null then
06:27:52 <pikhq> coppro: No, but I have been Ambassador to it.
06:28:48 <oerjan> !sh cat interps/ghc/runghc | fmt -w500
06:28:48 <EgoBot> #!/bin/bash if ! ghc -O2 -e "`cat $1`" 2> /dev/null then
06:28:52 <Sgeo_> I've touched BN once
06:30:23 <oerjan> hm actually that means it uses no options besides -O2
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07:11:31 <Sgeo_> Enforcing hibernation npw
07:14:37 <coppro> I'm addicted to watching the hours tick down to my BN vicotyr
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07:23:37 <ais523> coppro: you have BN victory on a /timer/?
07:24:06 * ais523 wonders, what exploit is this?
07:32:38 <pikhq> ais523: He must cackle as it goes down.
07:39:14 <coppro> ais523: it should actually be pretty easily visible
07:39:24 <coppro> or at least logically deducible
07:40:50 <ais523> I don't see how you trigger either VC
07:41:40 <ais523> or 2.4.1, fwiw, although I can see how you might have proposals designed to trigger that
07:41:46 <ais523> which would explain the timer
07:42:48 <ais523> you don't have -6 treason, and a method of pumping someone else up to UV would be considered a scam
07:42:58 <ais523> so I find it hard to square the ruleset with your actoins
07:43:25 <ais523> "mantra of the unwashed" is clearly an attempt to trigger 2.4.1, btw
07:54:49 <ais523> well, unless you're planning to bypass the ruleset entirely, you'll need to trigger it somehow
07:55:20 * oerjan suddenly envisions the concept of a nomic crank
07:55:57 <oerjan> someone who insists that their scam _does_ work despite all evidence to the contrary
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08:06:21 <zzo38> coppro: Play chess and be not bored, then?
08:06:33 <zzo38> Or else, just rest?
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12:59:15 <CakeProphet> apparently monkey brains can neuroplastically adapt to brain machine interfaces
13:05:07 <fizzie> Man, damn my stupid PEOPLE BRAIN that can't.
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17:02:23 <alise> Sgeo: coppro: FWIW, I'll probably be starting another Nethack game in a little while.
17:04:52 <Sgeo> On termcast or elsewhere?
17:05:52 <alise> Sgeo: Well, got any suggestions for elsewhere?
17:06:11 <Sgeo> Someone suggested something called NEU?
17:06:11 <alise> I'm not going to use NAO; it's ridiculously slow on this part of the globe.
17:06:40 <alise> Sgeo: I'm looking for it on http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Public_server...
17:06:53 <alise> Sgeo: But I don't really see a huge problem with termcast. I much prefer the zero-latency gameplay.
17:07:15 <Sgeo> Hmm, that's a point
17:07:18 <alise> Can you tell me what's wrong with termcast, apart from the ridiculous possibility that I modified the code to cheat, which is patently untrue as I do terribly? :P
17:07:44 <alise> with termcast, every keypress happens instantly, and it gets sent off to the server in the background
17:07:53 <alise> with servers you have to wait for the roundtrip
17:08:33 <alise> Can't find anything that looks like an NEU on that public server list.
17:10:29 <alise> Sgeo: Is there a way to get Nethack to colour the status line somehow?
17:10:37 <alise> Say, give a red background to things like low HP or blindness, etc.
17:11:04 <alise> (Inspired by this screenshot of UnNetHack: http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090621122957/nethack/images/b/b4/UnNetHack.png)
17:11:25 <Sgeo> Um, there's a patch for that, that I think NAO uses
17:11:55 <alise> There's a patch for that. NetHack. From the Dev Team. www.nethack.org
17:12:26 <alise> Oh, come on, laugh.
17:12:42 * Sgeo got it, but didn't feel a need to laugh in-channel
17:13:20 <Sgeo> http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Statuscolors
17:14:07 <Sgeo> http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/HPmon is what NAO uses
17:14:59 <alise> Sgeo: Actually, maybe not having it coloured will encourage me to be more careful.
17:15:02 <Sgeo> I may watch some SGU
17:15:19 <Sgeo> Or, alternatively, explorer.exe can crash
17:15:28 <alise> Ha ha, Windows user
17:17:00 <alise> Sgeo: Well, I'm going to start the game in a second.
17:17:24 <Sgeo> Awesome, VLC's refusing to not be full-screened again
17:17:37 <alise> See! More reason to watch me play Nethack instead. :P
17:19:24 <Sgeo> I should mention termcast to my UNIX professor
17:20:13 <alise> (It's trademarked as UNIX but that's because of retardedness; the erroneous "UNIX" spelling comes from the fact that "Unix" was set in small caps in the original manuals.)
17:21:02 <Sgeo> Do you have a source for this? (I want to be sure that you're not pranking me)
17:21:23 <alise> That would be the World's Worst Prank.
17:21:37 <alise> "Unix (officially trademarked as UNIX, sometimes also written as Unix with small caps)" --Wikipedia
17:21:42 <alise> Or do you want me to dig out an old Unix paper too?!
17:21:50 <Sgeo> No, that's sufficient
17:21:59 <Sgeo> *checks Wikipedia article's history*
17:22:39 <alise> Sgeo: OK, so I'm being a little pedantic; old Unix guys have called it UNIX in media such as email before.
17:22:44 <alise> But that's probably just to emulate the small caps.
17:22:54 <alise> Anyway, a better justification is that Unix is definitely /valid/, and dammit, UNIX looks ugly.
17:23:24 <Sgeo> Tell me when you're on termcast
17:23:51 <alise> Sgeo: I need you to be pedantic in turn
17:24:02 <alise> Sgeo: My window is titled "Nethack" with a lowercase h, please beat me with a rusty stick
17:24:19 <alise> In my defence, "NetHack" looks SO ugly.
17:24:36 <Sgeo> I'm not beating you with anything, perv!
17:24:53 <alise> Is there /anything/ you cannot turn sexual?
17:25:23 <Sgeo> Something that's already sexual!
17:25:38 <alise> Sgeo: Okay, going on air in three... two... one...
17:25:51 <alise> Do you receive the test signal?!
17:26:03 <alise> coppro: ^ also (in case you're silly enough to want to watch)
17:26:53 <alise> Hmm, that reminds me
17:27:04 <alise> Sgeo: What's the name of that nice bot that spoils you about all the monsters?
17:27:10 <alise> that ais mentioned yesterday
17:28:01 <Sgeo> Do you know about vaults?
17:28:11 <alise> I know /of/ them; I don't know how I can get out of them.
17:28:21 <Sgeo> You can drop your gold
17:28:24 <Sgeo> And go with the guard
17:28:38 <Sgeo> If you want to keep it, say Croesus (I think)
17:28:40 <alise> Does it matter who I tell the Guard I am?
17:28:52 <alise> Now /that/ was cheating. :P
17:29:02 <Sgeo> You may be trapped
17:29:10 <alise> Sgeo: What if I give him another name?
17:29:19 <Sgeo> You'll have to drop the gold and leave
17:29:27 <Sgeo> And you can't come back through the trap
17:29:45 <alise> Sgeo: What if I kill the guard?
17:29:57 -!- Cavilador has joined.
17:30:01 <Sgeo> I doubt you're strong enough. I don't know
17:30:07 <alise> Sgeo: Or, better idea: what if I pick up the gold again now, and resume following him? :D
17:30:36 <Sgeo> Or it could be a terminally bad idea
17:30:37 <alise> "So be it, rogue!" Oh dear.
17:30:52 <alise> Sgeo: That was a quick death.
17:31:01 <alise> Note to self: In future, follow guards.
17:31:16 <alise> Sgeo: Okay, reconnecting.
17:31:21 <alise> Let's hope this game lasts slightly longer.
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17:32:36 <oerjan> <fizzie> Man, damn my stupid PEOPLE BRAIN that can't.
17:32:51 <oerjan> i would assume if monkey brains can, it's quite likely human brains can too
17:32:54 <alise> Sgeo: No point going to the vault, is there?
17:33:10 <alise> Sgeo: I heard vaulty noises, says Nethack.
17:33:22 <Sgeo> When you're stronger or have teleportitis
17:33:33 <Sgeo> Don't know if anyone follows you if you teleport out
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17:33:33 <alise> Bloody dead-end corridor.
17:33:43 <Sgeo> IS it a dead end?
17:33:46 <oerjan> there's just the slight problem of getting the testing past the ethical board...
17:33:51 <alise> Sgeo: I've searched ~60 times now.
17:34:02 <alise> oerjan: any context? :P
17:34:11 <alise> Sgeo: Unless you want me to search more? XD
17:34:16 <oerjan> 04:59:15 <CakeProphet> apparently monkey brains can neuroplastically adapt to brain machine interfaces
17:34:19 <oerjan> 04:59:35 <CakeProphet> I say this is cool as fuck
17:34:48 <Sgeo> I think your pet can be diagonal from you when you go down or up
17:35:03 <alise> Sgeo: Okay. I was being cautious.
17:35:23 <alise> You can steal from shops, can't you?
17:35:27 -!- Cavilador has quit.
17:35:34 <Sgeo> Yes... safest to do so with your pet
17:35:46 <alise> Sgeo: Are shopkeepers difficult to kill?
17:35:52 <Sgeo> For you, right now, yes
17:36:19 <alise> Sgeo: More to the point, do I actually need any potions at this point...?
17:36:42 <alise> Ehh, I'll skip it.
17:37:41 <alise> Sgeo: How peculiar!
17:37:42 <Sgeo> You can kick down doors, you know
17:37:44 <alise> I suppose there is a hidden door.
17:37:48 <alise> Sgeo: Wait, locked doors?
17:38:08 <alise> I've been playing without opening them at all
17:38:41 <Sgeo> Ok, look at HP.
17:38:51 <alise> That was the fox, wasn't it?
17:38:52 <Sgeo> Also, note that grid bugs can't bite on a diagonal
17:39:15 <alise> I don't really have any way to get the HP back.
17:39:30 <Sgeo> Resting helps I think
17:41:22 <Sgeo> That looks dangerous, but I forget exactly what it is
17:41:30 <alise> Well, I killed it instantly, so there we go.
17:41:32 <Sgeo> And possibly the o
17:41:41 <Sgeo> Don't eat zombie corpses
17:41:58 <Sgeo> Drop stuff on it
17:42:31 <alise> Sgeo: Why do NetHack pets all have ADHD?
17:42:43 <Sgeo> I am not a NetHack pet!
17:42:55 <alise> Sgeo: Did I ever say that?
17:43:05 <Sgeo> No, but still >.>
17:43:59 -!- nooga has joined.
17:44:01 <alise> Sgeo: What does zapping do, again?
17:44:12 <alise> I mean, grid bugs.
17:45:14 <alise> Well, that was clever.
17:45:17 <Sgeo> Why would you..
17:45:22 <alise> I thought maybe it was inactive!
17:45:35 <alise> Floating eye, hidihi.
17:45:37 <Sgeo> Don't strike the floating eye in melee
17:45:50 <Sgeo> It will paralize you
17:45:57 <Sgeo> And some pathetic weak monster will kill you
17:46:09 <Sgeo> Kill it from a distance and eat the corpse
17:46:28 <alise> Daggers any good for throwing?
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17:46:36 <fizzie> oerjan: It was a stealth reference to a "man, I hate my stupid monkey blood!" Penny Arcade comic, actually.
17:46:45 <Sgeo> Also worth eating at some point
17:46:58 <alise> Sgeo: It left no corpse.
17:47:09 <alise> I was planning to eat the corpse.
17:47:27 <alise> Conveys telepathy, what's that all about?
17:47:44 <Sgeo> When you're blind and have intrinsic telepathy, you can sense monsters all around the level
17:47:52 <alise> A shitload of fountains on this level.
17:48:15 -!- Flonk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:48:20 <fizzie> Sounds like kernel panic!
17:48:25 -!- Flonk_ has changed nick to Flonk.
17:49:14 <fizzie> ./kernel/exit.c: panic("Aiee, killing interrupt handler!");
17:49:37 <alise> Sgeo: Ring mail's better than what I have, right?
17:49:42 <Sgeo> I have no idea, sorry
17:49:43 <alise> ... but it's heavy and maybe cursed.
17:49:50 <alise> Sgeo: I know it's worse than chain mail.
17:51:09 <alise> Sgeo: I see no other way.
17:51:24 <Sgeo> Under the corpse?
17:52:01 <Sgeo> Under the ring mail?
17:52:29 <Sgeo> Um, doesn't look it, but you could try going down
17:52:59 <alise> Sgeo: Looks like there's only one way out of this situation!
17:53:21 <alise> Sgeo: I have no long-range weapons.
17:54:11 <Sgeo> Sinks are good for IDing rings
17:54:16 <Sgeo> There's a page on that
17:54:17 <alise> If only I had rings.
17:54:35 <Sgeo> And for breaking your legs when you're levitating
17:54:53 <Sgeo> Hey, if you're levitating against your will...
17:55:12 <alise> Sgeo: How convenient.
17:55:20 <Sgeo> Was about to say the exat same thing
17:55:37 <alise> What's that splashing?
17:55:42 <Sgeo> Um, IDing rings at a sink usually means losing the ring
17:55:45 <Sgeo> Probably the sink
17:55:51 <alise> Wait ... then why ID them?
17:56:05 <Sgeo> So you know what they are in the future
17:56:14 <alise> What if I forget? Does the game remember for me?
17:56:27 <Sgeo> I don't remember if it asks you to Call
17:56:53 <alise> Sgeo: Worth doing?
17:57:01 <Sgeo> I... don't know
17:57:07 <alise> And be more useful :P
17:57:09 <Sgeo> You need a junk object
17:57:29 <Sgeo> It's food, not sure that it counts as junk :/
17:57:52 <Sgeo> Also, there may be otehr ways to ID rings
17:58:21 <alise> All rings may be identified by dropping them into sinks. The sink will show an effect depending on the type of ring. Rings other than searching and slow digestion will be lost with 95% probability; therefore it is a good idea to do this test only if you have another ring of the same type as the one being tested, or if you know that the ring is cursed, or you don't want it for some other reason.
17:58:43 <Sgeo> "but lying carries a small alignment penalty for lawfuls"
17:58:47 <alise> Sgeo: Why did Felix yowl?
17:59:02 <Sgeo> Don't know why, but it can't be good
17:59:14 <alise> You can #chat with your cat to get an idea of how it is feeling:
17:59:14 <alise> it will yowl if it is caught in a trap, confused, fleeing, or tameness is getting low.
18:00:17 <alise> Sgeo: Does Felix hate me :(
18:00:46 <Sgeo> He's still tame
18:01:02 <alise> Any catrearing tips?
18:01:49 <alise> Sgeo: He wanted food.
18:02:06 <alise> ...can you feed pets non-pet food?
18:02:16 <Sgeo> If they're hungry, I think
18:03:02 <Sgeo> Sorry that I couldn't help
18:03:26 <alise> You can tame almost anything, right?
18:03:41 <Sgeo> There are some untamable things
18:03:45 <alise> Well if someone had PESTILENCE as a pet...
18:03:56 <Sgeo> I don't think you can tame the Wizard of Yendor
18:04:09 <Sgeo> YOu may have broken a mirror
18:04:11 * alise kicks it some more
18:04:27 <alise> Sgeo: Not potions?
18:04:34 <Sgeo> Or potions, hopefully
18:04:40 <Sgeo> I may be mistaken
18:05:00 <alise> Aww, an iguana would have made a nice pet.
18:05:04 <alise> Sgeo: Yes ... several. Why?
18:05:13 <Sgeo> Um, don't know
18:05:30 <Sgeo> They may contain stuff? Not particularly useful for you
18:06:04 <alise> encarved Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice
18:06:13 <alise> How do you loot statues ...
18:06:22 <Sgeo> Never thought of that
18:06:29 <Sgeo> I was thinking of just breaking it open
18:06:30 <alise> How do they contain stuff, then?
18:06:33 <Sgeo> But you're not a wizard
18:06:42 <Sgeo> It can't hurt to try, can it?
18:06:58 <alise> If there's one thing Nethack has taught me, it's this: it can ALWAYS hurt to try.
18:07:05 <Sgeo> "The contents of the statue can be retrieved by either smashing it apart, or by using a stone to flesh spell to convert it to a living being, whereupon the contents will become the monster's inventory."
18:07:55 <Sgeo> You have autopickup on?
18:08:01 <alise> Sgeo: For a few items; why?
18:08:04 <alise> I picked up the rocks on purpose.
18:08:42 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that coins are great junk objects
18:08:53 <alise> You can't drop just one coin, though, can you?
18:09:22 <alise> Sgeo: Ehm ... do dogs like candy bars?
18:09:28 <Sgeo> with D, I think
18:09:32 <Sgeo> Oh, dogs and candy bars?
18:10:03 <Sgeo> to drop a coin, I think it's D1$
18:10:24 <alise> Taming wild dogs is usually easy, because all sizes of dog are considered domestic animals. Throwing a meaty treat, a safe fresh meat-based corpse, or processed human food at a hostile or peaceful dog will tame it. Throwing any other comestible at a dog will at least render it peaceful, with the exception of cream pies and eggs (which will break on impact).
18:11:00 <alise> How do you name your pet again...?
18:11:02 <Sgeo> I think it's N for pets?
18:13:44 <Sgeo> Please don't kill your second pet
18:13:53 <alise> Sgeo: I'll try not to!
18:13:59 <alise> Yipping is apparently A-OK.
18:16:01 <alise> Sgeo: Is it, uh, wise to enter throne rooms?
18:16:34 <alise> Throne rooms contain an assortment of monsters, a throne, and a chest. There is a guaranteed throne room in Fort Ludios, in the Castle and in Vlad's tower.
18:16:34 <Sgeo> http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Throne_room#Throne_rooms gives me no reason to think that they're peaceful
18:17:06 <Sgeo> Unless they are, I guess
18:17:06 <alise> Sgeo: But the reward IS powerful, I get a throne.
18:17:15 <alise> Well, they aren't attacking me ;)
18:17:41 <alise> Sgeo: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Throne#Sitting_on_a_throne
18:17:49 <alise> These seem like rather good outcomes. Maybe.
18:17:56 <alise> Possibility to genocide.
18:18:05 <alise> Get to make a wish. Identify items.
18:18:17 <Sgeo> Some negative outcomes
18:18:28 <fizzie> There's preparations you can take before sitting.
18:18:31 <alise> Sgeo: OTOH, fighting these guys seems like a nice way to train.
18:18:37 <alise> fizzie: /This/ early in the game?
18:18:48 <fizzie> Mostly, you can drop all your gold to the next square.
18:18:49 <alise> Sgeo: I can always flee. RAAAAMPAAAAAGE!
18:18:55 <fizzie> Because one of the outcomes is the loss of all of it.
18:19:13 <Sgeo> How are you not dead?
18:19:20 <alise> Sgeo: Because I'm SO HARDCORE.
18:19:34 <Sgeo> WTF is an aklys?
18:19:50 <alise> An aklys, known as a thonged club when unidentified, is a kind of weapon commonly used by gnomes and is hence frequent junk in the Gnomish Mines. It is lighter than the standard club at only 15 weight units compared to the club’s 30. Also unlike the standard club, the aklys is made of iron rather than wood. It is relatively worthless, having a base cost of only 4 zorkmids. The aklys does 1d6 damage (average of 3.5) to small creatures, and 1d3 damage (ave
18:19:50 <alise> rage of 2) to large creatures, identical with the standard club.
18:20:20 <Sgeo> alise, note HP
18:20:27 <alise> Yes, I'm resting for a little bit.
18:21:16 <alise> Sgeo: This is FUN!
18:21:48 <alise> Sgeo: Good thing there's so many monsters here I can just flail wildly!
18:21:52 <alise> fizzie: You gotta see this. :P
18:22:03 <fizzie> I can open it on one screen; how?
18:22:11 <alise> fizzie: telnet termcast.org
18:22:13 <fizzie> I don't promise I'll be watching very closely, though.
18:22:15 <alise> Whichever one's "alise".
18:22:36 <alise> Heeeeere we gooooooooo
18:22:52 <alise> Aww, I'm not blind any more.
18:22:56 <fizzie> Okay, you appear to have eaten a bugbear; I guess I picked the right one.
18:23:31 <fizzie> The throne room is a lot easier with stealth; you don't wake up everything in there.
18:23:46 <fizzie> Okay, a pet might still go and awaken monsters, though.
18:24:16 <Sgeo> alise starved his first pet
18:24:24 <alise> It's praying time soon.
18:24:36 <fizzie> Incidentally, is there some sort of a trick going on, or how do the line-drawing characters work on this UTF-8 term?
18:24:46 <alise> fizzie: It's the Unicode ones, I think.
18:24:50 <alise> I'm using DECgraphics.
18:25:05 <alise> fizzie: Although, wait, no.
18:25:12 <alise> fizzie: As I recall, most terminals automatically rejiggle those to work.
18:25:19 <alise> fizzie: For instance, elinks manages them fine.
18:25:27 <fizzie> IBMgraphics is a bit more fiddlier to set up.
18:25:39 <fizzie> (But you get "top of integral sign" fountains and all.)
18:25:57 <alise> How am I not satiated yet?!
18:26:22 <Sgeo> alise is going the way of Felix, but isn't aware of it yet
18:26:42 <alise> Starving, you mean?
18:26:55 <alise> I've eaten something like 10 corpses in the past few hundred turns.
18:27:09 <alise> Sgeo: Would you look at that?
18:27:19 <alise> I just vanquished an entire throne room without going very low on HP once! Yay.
18:27:30 <alise> fizzie: So, drop mah moneys, right?
18:27:45 <fizzie> Right. I don't think there's too much else to do, though I might just forget something.
18:28:04 <fizzie> Well, that was useless.
18:28:17 <alise> fizzie: Not useless; I've got a lot of fightin' 'sperience doing that.
18:28:18 <fizzie> Also having it disappear on the first #sit is unlucky.
18:28:32 <Sgeo> "If your Luck is strictly positive, you are blinded for 250 to 349 (more) turns; otherwise, your inventory is randomly cursed (as for a "malignant aura").
18:28:48 <Sgeo> Might there be something in the chest?
18:28:50 <alise> Sgeo: that's a 1/13 chance though :D
18:28:54 <alise> Sgeo: I already looted the chest
18:28:56 <fizzie> Oh, right: there's that chest next to the throne, it's a reasonably safe place to stick the money in before sitting.
18:29:13 <Sgeo> Write in the ground with the gem
18:29:19 <Sgeo> Oh, and hold onto the lizard corpse
18:29:28 <alise> Sgeo: Scooby ate it.
18:29:44 <alise> Floating eyes, my favourite kind of floating eye.
18:30:33 <Sgeo> Now would be a good time to pray
18:30:44 <alise> Hooray for religion.
18:30:48 <Sgeo> Get the flating eye corpse
18:31:22 <alise> What does that do, again?
18:31:30 <Sgeo> Walk around semi-randomly I think
18:31:36 <Sgeo> Be careful near your dog
18:31:47 <alise> Oh, I know! I'll pray!
18:32:43 <Sgeo> "Food poisoning is completely preventable (in NetHack) by avoiding eating old corpses."
18:33:08 <Slereah> But they look so fucking tasty
18:33:09 <alise> All I did was brutally attack her.
18:34:24 <alise> am I not prepared for this level, do you think? :/
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18:34:44 <alise> Sgeo: OK; what now?
18:35:01 <Sgeo> Ask in #nethack
18:35:16 <alise> "Hello; I've got myself into a stupid situation because I'm retarded. Halp."
18:37:19 <alise> Sgeo: Oh! Elbereth!
18:37:47 <alise> Sgeo: Won't that work?
18:37:55 <alise> Or do mummys count as humanoid? :P
18:38:20 <alise> I don't think #nethack realises that the mummy is actively attacking me.
18:38:24 <coppro> A Elbereth Gilthoniel!
18:38:57 <alise> coppro: do *you* see anywhere I can move without dying next turn? http://i.imgur.com/dLUSe.png
18:39:10 <alise> Okay, Elbereth time.
18:39:37 <coppro> yes, Elbereth is good. Have a wand you can use?
18:39:44 <alise> I Elberethed, the mummy fleed,
18:39:46 <alise> came back, kille dme.
18:39:56 <coppro> in situations like that, you just keep Elberething
18:40:06 <Sgeo> alise, you moved!
18:40:08 <coppro> since you will wear the old ones out
18:40:28 <alise> Go team elf mummy. Go team new-game.
18:40:44 <alise> Nethack picked dwarven Valkyrie for me.
18:40:47 <alise> I accidentally said yes.
18:40:50 <alise> What are the chances?
18:40:58 <alise> Well, same time, same bat-channel.
18:41:00 <alise> Here we go again ...
18:41:04 <alise> coppro: (telnet termcast.org)
18:41:41 <alise> Sgeo: Chain mail on dlvl 1
18:42:29 <alise> Probably cursed, but who cares? It's chain mail! :p
18:42:46 <Sgeo> Items can be -enhanced
18:43:22 <coppro> Sgeo: chaimail has high AC to start with, so a negative enchantment is likely to be a net win
18:43:45 <alise> I had -1 cursed chain mail for the majority of my game yesterday where I got to Sokoban.
18:43:47 <alise> Don't regret it one bit.
18:44:29 <coppro> in fact, I don't think a harmful chain mail can be generated
18:45:44 <alise> This is a surprisingly active dlvl 1.
18:46:20 <alise> He got transported to the vault, didn't he ...
18:46:36 <Sgeo> There's a vault?
18:46:58 <alise> Oh, Felix is down here.
18:47:21 <Sgeo> Ooh, smoky potion
18:50:38 <alise> coppro: Sgeo: rate this idea: 200s until monster, kill, repeat
18:50:49 <coppro> I need the next 22 hours to pass unremarkably
18:51:30 <alise> coppro: why? for the ****?
18:51:35 <Sgeo> He'll pull a Felix?
18:51:38 <alise> the ***** **** ******* *
18:51:52 <alise> as * denotes a correction.
18:52:21 <alise> coppro: Q: What's better than a blindfold?
18:52:23 <alise> A: Two blindfolds!
18:52:40 <alise> "RIP Felix" is now a meme.
18:52:51 <alise> You kill poor Felix! Welcome to experience level 3.--More--
18:52:56 <alise> NetHack: Kill pet, gain experience
18:53:18 <Sgeo> How'd mypu dp that?
18:53:25 <coppro> killing a pet is a horrible idea
18:53:39 <alise> coppro: yep, it was an accident
18:53:47 <alise> Sgeo: viciously attacked a gas spore
18:53:55 <alise> without previously considering the implications of this
18:54:07 <alise> There is an open door here. You see here a kitten corpse named Felix.
18:54:12 <alise> coppro: If I eat it, can I become Chaotic?
18:54:21 <coppro> did you hear the rumble of distant thunder?
18:54:30 <Sgeo> Eating it is probably not a good idea
18:54:58 <alise> THUNDER IS LIKE THE GREATEST
18:55:00 <coppro> alise: becoming chaotic in nethack will make the game unwinnable
18:55:10 <coppro> also, congratulations, you suffered -15 alignment and -1 luck
18:55:16 <coppro> your god hates you now
18:55:27 <alise> coppro: To be fair, I killed my pony pet in the game I got to Sokoban.
18:55:34 <alise> /And/ possibly killed Felix; either that or let him die.
18:55:47 <alise> (I killed an anonymous housecat who left no corpse, but I'm not sure if it was Felix; he was a pushover.)
18:55:53 <alise> (And Felix was not a pushover that game.)
18:56:15 <coppro> eating your pet gives you a horribly annoying intrinsic that is almost impossible to remove
18:56:31 <alise> Sgeo: You know, calling me "he" in a random channel will just confuse people. :P
18:56:56 <alise> q - a kitten corpse named Felix.
18:57:20 <alise> What do you want to write in the dust here? RIP Felix (also Elbereth)
18:58:15 <alise> is it just me, or is elbereth the biggest deus ex machina ever found in a roguelike?
18:59:45 <Sgeo> It can be compiled out
19:00:24 <alise> Can you tame floating eyes?
19:00:36 <Sgeo> It would be far better to kill and eat it
19:00:52 <alise> I have nothing to kill it with, apart from melee.
19:00:57 <alise> I /do/ have food rations to tame it with.
19:01:17 <Sgeo> \<Sgeo> How dangerous is zapping an unknown wand at something that's not likely to kill you?
19:01:17 <Sgeo> <zgedneil> depends on if it's polymorph and the RNG hates you or not
19:05:37 <alise> WHY WILL THEY NOT ANSWER MY IMPORTANT FLOATING EYE TAMING QUESTIONS
19:05:47 -!- sshc_ has changed nick to sshc.
19:06:55 <fizzie> My guess would be: it doesn't eat, so you can't tame it.
19:07:10 <alise> Without magick, that is.
19:07:39 <fizzie> I am having a hard time visualizing a floating eye snacking on a food ration, anyway.
19:08:17 <alise> fizzie: Should I throw weapons and armor at it, zap my unIDed want, or do the much more fun thing of throwing food at it?
19:08:24 <alise> I've already thrown potions at it so it's a bit drugged up.
19:08:47 <Sgeo> alise, you can engrave-ID your wand
19:08:52 <alise> YES BUT THAT IS BORING.
19:08:58 <alise> fizzie: Okay that is another option added to the poll of you.
19:09:32 <fizzie> I usually try to lure them into some place where you can throw an item at it, wait for it to step aside, pick it up, and repeat ad nauseam. But they're not very good at following, and move slowly, so that's *very* boring.
19:09:49 <alise> Yes, I am optimising for fun here, seeing as I am only on dlvl 3.
19:09:50 <Sgeo> I usually be a wizard
19:10:13 <Sgeo> Weren't there some rocks on earlier levels?
19:10:28 <alise> GOD WHY ARE YOU ALL SO BORING
19:10:31 <alise> I'm going to throw food at it.
19:10:34 <fizzie> Well, if you want fun, throw a food item at it to see what happens; in the interests of scientif...
19:10:41 <alise> The food ration misses the floating eye.
19:10:46 <alise> How close do I have to be?
19:10:52 <alise> Is being right next to it safe as long as I don't attack?
19:11:02 <fizzie> Yes, you can stand right next to it.
19:11:04 <Sgeo> It should be, I th... WAIT
19:11:21 <Sgeo> fizzie, tell me if I'm wrong, but if you're blind, the floating eye can't paralize you
19:11:31 <fizzie> That should be true, yes.
19:11:50 <Sgeo> No way to identify BUC though
19:11:56 <alise> You know ... floating eyes don't scare me that much ...
19:12:01 <fizzie> I'm not guaranteeing anything, but I think it's a gazey sort of thing.
19:12:17 <fizzie> They don't scare you because you haven't been bitten to death by a grid bug.
19:12:22 <alise> The food rations are "missing" the eye, so there you go.
19:12:42 <alise> "The wand misses the floating eye."
19:12:52 <alise> It's a wand of STRIKING.
19:13:07 <fizzie> Heh: if a floating eye itself is blind, it also can't paralyze you.
19:13:10 <alise> Sgeo: How do I blind my fold?
19:13:19 <Sgeo> (a)pply it, I think
19:13:26 <Sgeo> But you may be blind for a while if it's ursed
19:13:41 <alise> Can I melee the floating eye now?
19:14:36 <fizzie> fungot: What would you do to a floating eye?
19:14:37 <fungot> fizzie: marilith: the gnats of the twentieth century. it is biscuitish, keeps good indefinitely, is a cat by talking gently to it.
19:14:41 <alise> Now how do I take it off?!
19:14:43 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack* pa speeches ss wp youtube
19:14:59 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
19:15:07 <alise> Sgeo: Floating eye corpse; you must be so happy.
19:15:09 <fungot> Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
19:15:12 <alise> fungot: isn't topicality good?!
19:15:12 <fungot> alise: blindfold: the hitchhiker's guide to fantasyland, by terry pratchett) a constellation of the very solemn venerable i-hsiu to our base for a great snake was gone. the sword to be untainted! beware the jubjub bird, and held aloft the sacred icon. the other. teeth and claws fear what they saw; but with the king, orcrist: the hades. poseidon is associated in many ways with horses and thus is the property of fortune cookies,
19:15:21 <alise> Sgeo: I feel a strange mental acuity.
19:15:22 <Sgeo> alise, congratulations
19:15:34 <alise> "the hitchhiker's guide to fantasyland, by terry pratchett"
19:15:37 <Sgeo> Put the blindfold back on... oh, and you may want to name that one
19:15:42 <Sgeo> Since you know it's not cursed
19:15:43 <alise> Why put it back on?
19:16:04 <Sgeo> noncursed, but whatever
19:16:04 <coppro> did he eat the corpse?
19:16:14 <alise> I know, I can see monsters.
19:16:21 <coppro> yeah, then you get telepathy
19:16:26 <alise> What about exploration?
19:16:32 <Sgeo> It won't show you all monsters though
19:16:35 <Sgeo> Just ones with minds
19:16:56 <alise> Now can I take it off? :P
19:17:16 <alise> Can you tame humanoids?
19:17:25 <Sgeo> You aren't going to search that area?
19:17:26 <fizzie> You'll also be feeling around for the cockatrice corpses and other nice things, if you walk around blindfolded.
19:17:36 <alise> Sgeo: Yes, yes, as soon as I get a hobbit for a pet.
19:17:54 <alise> So, yeah, can I feed hobbits? >_>
19:18:10 <Sgeo> Bilbo, bilbo, bilbo BAGGINS!
19:18:16 <Sgeo> Greatest little hobbit of them all!
19:20:14 <fizzie> IIRC, you can only tame the domesticated animals (dogs, cats, horses) by throwing food.
19:21:44 <Sgeo> That was smart, alise
19:21:52 <alise> Sgeo: They both missed me and I got darts.
19:22:50 <alise> Flags: poison resistance, acid resistance, sleep resistance, petrification resistance, nolimbs, acid, mindless, amorphous, breathless, nohead, noeyes, nohands, neuter, wander
19:22:50 <Sgeo> That was a bad idea
19:22:53 <alise> Good enough for me!
19:22:58 <alise> Sgeo: Well ... it's not POISONOUS ... >_>
19:25:19 <alise> Sgeo: Where are THOSE guys from?
19:25:59 <alise> EXPLAIN THAT, SCIENCE
19:26:23 <Sgeo> fizzie, take a look at this
19:26:38 <alise> THE The L is the corner of a square :P
19:27:02 <alise> Oh, I see, they're powerful.
19:27:16 <alise> And there isn't a white one.
19:27:21 <alise> Sgeo: where are those ueBBs?
19:27:33 <Sgeo> Someplace you haven't found yet, apparently
19:28:14 <Sgeo> I'd suggest searching the room with a fountain or the room east of that
19:28:49 <Sgeo> Don't lie, it's an align penalty
19:28:59 <Sgeo> And don't die please
19:29:01 <alise> Is attacking an align penalty?
19:29:11 <alise> Sgeo: Well, you have to admit I'm not exactly doing well this game >.>
19:29:13 <Sgeo> It's a "you die" penalty, probably
19:29:58 <Sgeo> fizzie, get in here and convince alise to surrender
19:30:21 <Sgeo> Since when do you even USE the money?
19:32:13 <alise> Sgeo: Don't say alise is considering it
19:32:44 <alise> It's just that you're only asking about the really stupid stuff I consider >__>
19:33:55 <alise> Sgeo: How about I start another game which I actually take seriously?
19:34:19 <Sgeo> Or you could live in this one
19:35:10 <Sgeo> You have safe blindfold and telepathy
19:36:07 <Sgeo> There's gold in that diagonal, don't know if it's safe
19:36:17 <alise> It's ... inaccessible.
19:36:46 <Sgeo> Hmm, maybe dig for it at some point
19:37:05 <Sgeo> At least you know it's there
19:37:41 <Sgeo> BTW, the corridor should disappear when you leav
19:38:02 <alise> I got bored of dlvl 4.
19:38:06 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:38:16 <alise> I'm playing Nethack like a moron!
19:38:27 <Sgeo> I managed to talk alise out of vault-guard-related suicide
19:38:29 <alise> Then I tried to tame a floating eye.
19:38:33 <alise> Fun fact: they can't eat.
19:38:42 <alise> Then I considered fighting a vault guard.
19:39:25 <alise> ais523 is silently facepalming
19:40:01 <ais523> at least you didn't /actually/ fight the vault guard
19:40:09 <alise> ais523: it's all on termcast, if you want to have a laugh
19:40:16 <alise> NOT ANOTHER FLOATING EYE
19:40:20 <ais523> (hint: if you can leave the vault anyway, claim to be called "Croesus" and they'll go away; if you can't, you need the guard to lead you out)
19:40:25 <alise> I couldn't leave anyway.
19:40:31 <alise> Can you drop just the amount you stole?
19:40:35 <alise> Or does it have to be all your cash?
19:40:44 <ais523> it's how they get all their money
19:41:01 <alise> Can you get two guards to fight each other? That would be amazing.
19:41:17 <ais523> I'm not sure how you get two guards at the same time; revgeno, maybe
19:41:26 <ais523> but you could probably get them to fight each other via conflict
19:42:01 <Sgeo> Don't eat the fungus
19:42:03 <ais523> although not with very high levels of concentration
19:42:14 <ais523> watch out for that golem
19:42:21 <ais523> also, why are you meleeing floating eyes?
19:42:25 <ais523> alise: there's a monster in the bottom-left corner
19:42:29 <alise> ais523: that was a mistake
19:42:31 <alise> ais523: that golem turned to flee
19:42:45 <ais523> finish it before it heals up
19:44:03 <alise> Good thing I have telepathy.
19:44:48 <Sgeo> Japanese arrow
19:45:01 <Sgeo> Had to wiki that
19:45:58 <alise> Well, that was easy.
19:46:21 <Sgeo> Weren't you just at 70?
19:46:30 <ais523> alise: is the hpmon patch in your version?
19:46:33 <Sgeo> Oooh, whistle. Good for pets
19:46:41 <alise> Equip these combat boots?
19:46:44 <ais523> it's buggy (not in a bad way, just display glitches) but useful
19:46:47 <ais523> check the options screen
19:46:54 <alise> ais523: statuscolours is a non-buggy, expanded hpmon ftr
19:46:57 <alise> archlinux never patches packages
19:46:59 <alise> unless to fix breakage
19:47:06 <alise> there are a few pre-patched versions in the repos
19:47:11 <alise> but they have a bunch of useless crap too
19:47:34 <ais523> isn't it Arch that installed NetHack suid root despite common sense?
19:47:52 <alise> arch packages are very vanilla
19:47:55 <alise> basically just configure, make, install
19:48:03 <alise> gentoo like fucking things up with their useflags.
19:49:28 <alise> Sgeo: ANOTHER floating eye corpse!
19:50:01 <Sgeo> You already have telepathy
19:50:27 <alise> Is now a good time to pray.
19:50:33 <Sgeo> Well, pray or die
19:50:48 <alise> Well, I /did/ kill Felix.
19:50:49 <Sgeo> Check inventory
19:50:56 <ais523> you die in around 30 turns
19:51:01 <alise> Sgeo: what isn't he happy with?
19:51:03 <ais523> drink the unIDed potions, they're your best chance
19:51:05 <alise> I need something in my inventory
19:51:07 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523_.
19:51:08 <alise> ais523: all of them?!
19:51:21 <alise> thanks, mysterious t potion
19:51:27 <ais523_> must have been full healing
19:51:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:51:46 <alise> ais523_: If only I actually needed it, rather than got myself into a stupid situation.
19:51:51 <ais523_> besides, I doubt extra is powerful enough
19:52:18 <alise> I have a wand of striking; are those any good?
19:52:30 <ais523_> they're force bolt in wand form
19:52:31 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
19:52:44 <ais523> not much good for combat, but they destroy a bunch of inanimate objects
19:52:46 <ais523> like doors and boulders
19:53:47 <fizzie> Non-cursed extra healing does cure sickness: case POT_EXTRA_HEALING: .. healup(.. /* arg 3: */ !otmp->cursed ..); 3 is curesick.
19:53:59 <alise> ais523: incidentally, i completely wiped out a throne room before
19:54:03 <alise> ais523: with like exp 3
19:54:14 <alise> took ages, but it was fun
19:54:18 <alise> the throne disappeared on the first go :P
19:54:35 <alise> now, raiding /this/ room without the ability to pray or a pet... wish me luck
19:54:38 <fizzie> potion.c:323, immediately above dodrink(): /* "Quaffing is like drinking, except you spill more." -- Terry Pratchett */
19:55:12 <Sgeo> Note rapidly-lowering HP
19:55:44 <ais523> I wouldn't be concerned until it went down to 60 or so
19:55:54 <ais523> at which point, you have to wonder why it went that low, and how quickly
19:56:39 -!- zzo38 has joined.
19:56:46 <fizzie> That's one batty level.
19:56:46 <Sgeo> This is level with Sokoban entrance
19:57:11 <alise> She stole the unIDed one.
19:57:37 <zzo38> Do you like this D&D spell? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Good_Insane_Spell.s
19:57:46 <Sgeo> I forgot whether you eat blue jellies
19:57:54 <alise> ais523: i'm a valkyrie
19:57:58 <alise> ais523: but i'm also stunned!
19:58:11 <ais523> well, at least you're in a corridor
19:58:33 <ais523> being stunned means any direction key you press counts as a random direction
19:58:39 <zzo38> ais523: Wrong corridor, sorry
19:58:48 <ais523> so it helps to be in a corridor or somewhere like that to increase the chance of getting what you want
19:58:57 <alise> ais523: it's weighted, isn't it?
19:58:58 <ais523> although, that rock mole seems to have dug the corridor much wider
19:59:13 <ais523> it's confusion where it's weighted to the direction you pressed
20:00:05 <alise> i don't need scimitar, lance, 7 ya
20:00:06 <Sgeo> Oh, at some point, engrave with the gems
20:00:38 <zzo38> What spell level should the spell that I wrote be belonged to?
20:01:02 <alise> ais523: axe, spear, lance
20:01:04 <alise> ais523: which sucks the most?
20:01:15 <ais523> the axe has pretty much no legit use
20:01:21 <ais523> the spear is only useful when thrown
20:01:23 <zzo38> (The word "level" is even a palindrome, if that cares at all........?)
20:01:30 <ais523> and the lance is a polearm
20:01:36 <ais523> you can (a)pply it to hit something at range 2
20:01:45 <alise> ais523: basically i need to drop shit
20:01:49 <alise> combat boots any good?
20:01:51 <Sgeo> Does that count as melee against floating eyes?
20:01:52 <ais523> drop it anyway, it's rather heavy
20:01:58 <ais523> and combat boots are randomized-appearance
20:01:58 <alise> uncursed +3 small shield, +0 chain mail, +0 orcish helm, combat boots
20:02:00 * alise drops combat boots
20:02:05 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
20:02:06 <ais523> they could be excellent, but also could be cursed fumbling or whatever
20:02:14 <alise> do i need the orcish helm?
20:02:14 <ais523> ideally, you should BCU them, then wear them if not cursed
20:02:44 <Sgeo> Could you imagine if a seach revealed a non-diagonal route?
20:02:45 <ais523> besides, don't really worry about being able to move diagonally
20:02:49 <Sgeo> Or that there was another way there?
20:02:59 <ais523> you need to be at half your carry cap to do it
20:03:10 * Sgeo learns something new
20:03:39 <ais523> alise: you seem to stockpile more weapons than everyone else...
20:03:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:03:58 <alise> ais523: because I end up in sticky situations with a lot of monsters more than anyone else
20:04:57 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Client Quit).
20:04:59 <ais523> and extra weapons, other than ammo, help how in that situation?
20:05:10 <alise> more shit to throw
20:05:17 <zzo38> Do you like any of these spells? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Good_Insane_Spell.s http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Patamagician.c http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Minimize_Spell.f http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Self_Sacrifice.s
20:05:31 <alise> ais523: i've got to points where i just start disrobing and chucking armour
20:05:34 <ais523> most people would collect, say, 12 daggers and multithrow them, then throw scimitars and arrows and axes one at a time
20:05:34 <alise> it isn't terribly effective.
20:05:42 <alise> do you just mean throw a lot?
20:05:50 <ais523> if you have a stack of many dagers
20:05:54 <ais523> then you can throw more than one in a turn
20:06:00 <ais523> especially with practice
20:06:04 <alise> wait, this isn't the level i faced before
20:06:08 <alise> is this the harder variant?
20:06:12 <ais523> and no, two variants for each sokoban
20:06:20 <ais523> that one probably is slightly harder, but still easy
20:06:27 <alise> Easy if you're good at Sokoban.
20:06:28 <Sgeo> This looks easier to me, actually
20:06:38 <ais523> nah, the bottom-right area's a bit harder
20:06:46 <alise> I'm not actually sure which move to make first :-)
20:06:50 <ais523> alise: move the boulder to your right one square right, then all the way to the left
20:07:14 <alise> do slime molds preserve?
20:07:20 <Sgeo> They should, I think
20:07:27 <ais523> they're a customisable-name item, "slime mold" is just the default
20:07:35 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
20:07:39 <ais523> leave those three until you've done everything else
20:07:40 <alise> ais523: just looking for food
20:07:48 <zzo38> ais523: Can they ever do it in Nethack that the Sokoban levels will sometimes be mirrored or flipped? Or only two variants?
20:07:51 <ais523> anyway, "fruit" is the general name
20:07:59 <alise> slime mold is quite nice though
20:08:04 <ais523> zzo38: some forks like UnNetHack will mirror or rotate Sokoban levels
20:08:09 <ais523> but unpatched NetHack doesn't
20:08:16 <alise> is unnethack any good?
20:08:27 <ais523> I dislike many of its gameplay changes, but the interface is much better
20:08:29 <zzo38> And what happens if you change the "slime mold" name to the same name as another kind of item?
20:08:30 <ais523> it's rather harder than vanilla
20:08:46 <ais523> zzo38: nothing special if it's not food; if it is, the name of the fruit is changed so you can tell the two apart
20:09:02 <ais523> "candied cockatrice corpse", or whatever
20:09:18 <alise> ". You die..." --suggestion for slime mold name
20:09:38 <alise> yes, it's from a page of them
20:10:02 <ais523> move the lone one at the bottom
20:10:27 <ais523> or it'll be trapped behind the boulder
20:10:31 <alise> i don't know where it is
20:10:36 <ais523> just move the boulder, and throw stuff at it if you get stuck
20:11:01 <ais523> you probably want to name it now
20:11:33 <zzo38> What I think is Nethack needs is make the program treat player characters and non player characters all as the same. Also, no restriction race/class combination. And, also, in the class selection a "none" option, and in the race selection "enter any one" option, and a "Bishop's Curse" scroll you can move only diagonally, and a Forth interpreter built-in, and more ideas.....
20:11:43 <alise> ais523: if i get the difficult level 2 variant again i'm just going to kill myself in a comical way, okay? :P
20:11:59 <alise> zzo38: Everything's Forth with you, isn't it?
20:12:33 <ais523> now just put that one into the pits
20:12:48 <alise> ais523: sorry; I am pretty much a thinko machine
20:12:50 <ais523> rule of Sokoban you seem to be missing: if you /can/ move a boulder to the pits safely without disturbing any of the others, do so
20:12:54 <alise> hey, can i crawl out of that pit onto the <? >_>
20:12:59 <alise> ais523: no, i didn't miss that
20:13:01 <ais523> alise: yep, but it only works on the bottom level
20:13:03 <alise> i just didn't realise i could move thato ne in >_>
20:13:11 <alise> ais523: any penalties?
20:13:30 <ais523> apart from damage for falling into a pit
20:13:37 <ais523> it doesn't work on the other levels, though
20:13:38 <alise> yay the easy variant! (I presume)
20:13:44 <ais523> at least, compared to the other one
20:14:02 <zzo38> alise: Not everything is Forth with me all the time, I just think it should be added, and then various things can be rewritten in Forth, but not all features
20:14:03 <ais523> I'll walk you through the solution if you like
20:14:11 <alise> ais523: lemme guess: push this one until i can move around it
20:14:15 <alise> then go and knock the first ones in
20:14:16 <ais523> move the boulder to your left to make the top-left line of 2 into a line of 3
20:14:24 <ais523> so, left 4 spaces, then up 1
20:14:26 <Sgeo> Forth : zzo38 :: Smalltalk : Sgeo
20:14:47 <ais523> sokoban 1 is a great place to stash your stuff, btw
20:14:54 <ais523> easy to access, and relatively empty of monsters
20:15:00 <ais523> and you can put your stuff under a boulder if you like
20:15:04 <alise> ais523: I'll drop combat boots, but what weapons are the crappest?
20:15:15 <alise> want to lighten my load a little
20:15:26 <ais523> the ya as you don't have a launcher, the knife because it does pitiful damage, the axe because it's rubbish
20:15:35 <ais523> also, the scimitar is heavy compared to its minimal use for throwing
20:15:41 <ais523> and the lance is more useful but also heavy
20:15:49 <ais523> use capital D to multidrop
20:16:04 <alise> go down here, yeah?
20:16:07 <ais523> move the boulder immediately below you up
20:16:21 <ais523> the one 1 square below you
20:16:22 <alise> The one just below me?
20:16:30 <alise> pressed the key by mistake
20:16:33 <alise> i was about to move around
20:16:38 <alise> I blame my keyboard, for once.
20:16:41 <ais523> OK, none of those 4 move now without cheating
20:16:44 <ais523> you'll probably have to break one
20:16:50 <alise> is breaking one cheating :P
20:16:54 <ais523> yes, but it's only -1 luck
20:17:00 <ais523> you should break the bottom-left one
20:17:00 <alise> just break it downwards?
20:17:03 <ais523> with a wand of striking
20:17:23 <ais523> you want to only break one boulder
20:17:26 <ais523> so break it from there
20:17:35 <ais523> (striking doesn't bounce, btw)
20:17:43 <ais523> OK, move the leftmose boulder up
20:17:44 <alise> ok, now I'm at a loss
20:18:06 <ais523> then move the centre boulder of those 5 right
20:18:12 <ais523> again, as far as it goes
20:18:34 <ais523> the boulder in column 4 moves
20:18:37 <ais523> without disturbing the others
20:18:54 <ais523> then you can do the two in column 5, then the two in column 3
20:19:16 <ais523> leave the two in column 1 for now
20:19:31 <ais523> now, you push the boulders from the room before
20:19:45 <alise> this is remarkably easier
20:19:51 <alise> really? that was quick
20:19:56 <ais523> turn 4800 is a turn that restores luck
20:19:57 <alise> are there any more things i can show on my status bar, btw?
20:19:57 <zzo38> Did you write any comment of the D&D spell, yet?
20:20:01 <ais523> it's any turn divisible by 600
20:20:10 <ais523> alise: showexp is the only thing you could turn on
20:20:11 <alise> zzo38: nope, ais523 is busy walking me through nethack sokoban :P
20:20:17 <alise> ais523: ah, that sounds quite useful actually
20:20:18 <ais523> it shows how close you are to the next level
20:20:37 <ais523> and it's lead to some fun instadeaths due to high level players not noticing they were deathly sick
20:20:43 <ais523> due to showexp pushing it off the end of their status bar
20:20:55 <ais523> move the lower one in your current room left
20:20:56 <alise> <Rodney> ButterMuffin (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 29568 points, killed by an invisible stalker
20:21:01 <alise> from the INTERNET!
20:21:24 <ais523> now, those two in the right room
20:21:29 <ais523> push them into the left room, then back
20:21:59 <ais523> that lone boulder on the third row in the top-left room
20:22:00 <alise> ais523: I can't believe this is only turn 4978
20:22:04 <ais523> push it into the top-right room
20:22:08 <alise> btw, couldn't i crawl out of the rightmost bit to go to the door? XD
20:22:32 <ais523> I don't know what you mean
20:22:37 <ais523> bear in mind that Sokoban traps can't be escaped
20:22:46 <ais523> so you can fight them one at a time
20:23:11 <alise> Deewiant: don't tell me you're watching too :D
20:23:13 <ais523> with an angry god, it's probably not worth trying to eat them
20:23:26 <ais523> str dropped to 16, but you have poison res now
20:23:26 <alise> The killer bee corpse healed the killer bee corpse.
20:23:42 <ais523> although anything can blecch
20:23:45 <ais523> that wasn't your fault, just random chance
20:23:57 <ais523> move the one NE of you to the pits
20:24:09 <ais523> down two, left one, ...
20:24:33 <ais523> the one blocking the entrance to the northeast room moves next
20:24:36 <ais523> push it right hten back left
20:24:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:24:51 <ais523> and you still have five left over, even though you broke one
20:25:02 <ais523> don't eat the bat, btw
20:25:22 -!- augur has joined.
20:25:35 <ais523> eat the naga hatchling
20:26:00 <alise> Yes, but I'm going to tame it.
20:26:14 <Deewiant> He has 70+ hp and it's a kitten :-P
20:26:22 <alise> Something wrong with kittens?
20:26:35 <ais523> I don't see why you aren't just going upstairs
20:26:39 <alise> STOP PLAYING WITH THE GIANT BAT CORPSE
20:26:40 <alise> ais523: resting for HP
20:26:46 <ais523> yep, but you're only down 10
20:26:54 <alise> I'm not going for low turns
20:26:54 <ais523> and it'll heal as you solve the next puzzle
20:27:12 <ais523> I was going to say, kick the ring so you could pick it up later
20:27:32 <ais523> typical way to rescue non-fragile items from Sokoban holes
20:27:57 <ais523> Elbereth won't help against the wand
20:28:12 <ais523> heh, they killed each other
20:28:18 <ais523> this level is easy to mess up earlyt
20:28:23 <ais523> so I'll walk you through the first few moves
20:28:25 <alise> did i just get rid of my kitten again?
20:28:28 <alise> coppro: i got onto sokoban
20:28:30 <alise> coppro: hilarity ensued
20:28:31 <ais523> she's around here somewhere, I expect
20:28:41 <alise> you don't think i oughta rest?
20:28:42 <ais523> push the boulder to your left left, then back right
20:28:52 <ais523> and monsters spawn just as fast
20:28:57 <Sgeo> What exciting adventures did death did I miss?
20:29:05 <ais523> careful not to let the kitten get trapped behind a boulder
20:29:08 <alise> Sgeo: No death so far!
20:29:13 <ais523> so you can pick it up later
20:29:13 <alise> ais523: I've already killed Felix this game
20:29:26 <ais523> now, this is the subtle bit
20:29:34 <ais523> grr, you screwed it up
20:29:35 <alise> Which I just fucked up.
20:29:36 <Sgeo> ..not doing that
20:29:41 <alise> I thought I saw a clear path X_X
20:29:48 <alise> I'm sorry for being useless :D
20:29:51 <ais523> move to the top-right of this area without pushing any boulders
20:30:04 <ais523> then push that boulder down 3
20:30:13 <ais523> then the boulder to your SW down 3
20:30:25 <alise> how? there's one in the way
20:30:39 <ais523> you need to get your cat out of there
20:30:45 <Deewiant> Then take the boulder to your W
20:30:54 <ais523> no, he's just faster than you
20:30:57 <Sgeo> ....?????????????/
20:31:00 <alise> i was trying to move around it
20:31:02 <zzo38> We need to add more class in NetHack: No-Class, Computer-Programmer, Alchemist, Pacifist, Evangelist, Slaves, Casino-Owner, Ninja, Serial-Killer, The-Boss, ...etc...
20:31:08 <ais523> moved two squares a turn
20:31:08 <alise> THIS IS WHY I DON'T LIKE SOKOBAN
20:31:13 <ais523> anyway, just shatter that boulder
20:31:18 <ais523> if you want to solve the level
20:31:27 <Deewiant> Have to anyway, he blocked the down stairs
20:31:34 <Sgeo> Wow, alise is unlucky
20:31:37 <ais523> nah, you could bail out by jumping through the holes
20:31:53 <ais523> boulder to your left, push it 1 left then lots right
20:31:53 <Deewiant> But assuming he wants to exit after solving
20:32:00 <ais523> not now, the kitten's left
20:32:11 <Deewiant> Then the boulder N of that 1 down and right
20:32:12 <zzo38> Do you know of anyone implemented these kind of classes I described, in NetHack or any other kind of roguelike games?
20:32:23 <ais523> zzo38: there are programmers in ZAPM, I think
20:32:51 <ais523> and Pacifist is a /conduct/ in NetHack
20:32:51 <alise> ais523: now this one down, right?
20:32:56 <alise> then go around and push it right
20:33:20 <zzo38> They need to add a select for having no class?
20:33:40 <ais523> zzo38: what would you do for starting equipment?
20:33:49 <ais523> in NetHack, those are all determined by class
20:33:56 <zzo38> ais523: Select average stats and no equipment
20:34:17 <alise> ais523: the most topright one, push down?
20:34:47 <alise> ais523: topleft one left, down?
20:34:50 <ais523> then the one to the right of the one you just moved, push it left and down
20:35:12 <alise> How many more agonising levels of this are left?
20:35:14 <alise> Just out of curiosityl
20:35:24 <ais523> the next boulder's a bit tricky, though
20:35:24 <alise> STOP BEING INCONSISTENT :p
20:35:30 <zzo38> What they need, is, all player characters and non-player-characters all are treated in same way and are represented using the same structures in the program, except that the player character is a special variable and the "control" field is set to "CHCTRL_MANUAL_PRIMARY"
20:35:33 <ais523> alise: I think sgeo was counting this one
20:35:50 <Sgeo> Did alise go up a level since I last checked?
20:35:51 <ais523> then push the leftmost boulder up 1
20:35:54 <Sgeo> Um, he did, ah
20:35:56 <ais523> Sgeo: this is the third
20:36:14 <ais523> then the bottom boulder left 2
20:36:20 <ais523> (try not to let Felix II get trapped)
20:36:26 <ais523> now, the boulder above you down
20:36:32 <zzo38> Do you think this idea, including "control" field, is workable in any roguelikes?
20:36:41 <ais523> leftmost up, then middle down
20:37:02 <ais523> zzo38: it might screw up game balance
20:37:04 <alise> yay i get to have two cats
20:37:17 <Sgeo> There may be more monsters in that room
20:37:25 <ais523> the leftmost moves left, up, left, left, then to the pits
20:37:36 <alise> ais523: btw, Felix died of starvation before!
20:37:39 <alise> he yelped and then just sort of died
20:37:41 <zzo38> You can have different constants for character controlling, such as: CHCTRL_MANUAL, CHCTRL_MANUAL_PRIMARY, CHCTRL_NOOP, CHCTRL_HOSTILE, CHCTRL_NEUTRAL, etc
20:37:48 <ais523> if your pet starts complaining, chuck food at it
20:37:59 <Sgeo> All I knew is that yelping is bad
20:38:02 <Sgeo> I didn't know what to do
20:38:08 <Sgeo> I have FAILED FELIX!
20:38:21 <zzo38> ais523: It won't mess up game balance if the rest of the game is designed around it to be not mess up game balance.....
20:38:24 <ais523> alise: you know there was a creature there once, but not what
20:38:42 <ais523> generally, they aren't still there by the time you get there
20:38:45 <ais523> alise: let felix kill it?
20:38:47 <alise> Dammit, Felix 2: Electric Boogaloo!
20:38:53 <ais523> or do you really want to keep the wizard alive for some reason?
20:38:59 <alise> No, I just didn't want a fight :P
20:38:59 <coppro> 15:27 < b4taylor> Paperclip?
20:39:04 <ais523> you can still displace it out the way
20:39:20 <ais523> and you can move diagonally between monsters
20:39:24 <ais523> or between a monster and boulder
20:39:36 <alise> can I kill it with the boulder
20:39:41 <zzo38> CHCTRL_SPECIAL, CHCTRL_VERY_HOSTILE, CHCTRL_RANDOM, CHCTRL_COMPANION, and so on....
20:39:42 <ais523> and probably not, unless it's in a pit
20:39:52 <Deewiant> Kill it from a distance if you can
20:40:05 <ais523> switch back to sowrd now
20:40:07 <Deewiant> Oh right, sokoban is non-teleport
20:40:12 <ais523> lances don't work well at range 1
20:40:24 <ais523> nymphs cna't run easily in sokoban, though
20:40:31 <Deewiant> Now the nymph is blocking your boulder
20:40:32 <ais523> it's probably the numph
20:40:38 <Deewiant> Oh, you can lance through a boulder?
20:40:41 <alise> You won't hit anything if you can't see that spot.
20:40:42 <ais523> ugh, doesn't fit over the boulder
20:40:50 <ais523> you could throw stuff, but it'd hit the cat
20:40:59 <Sgeo> No, The DevTeam didn't think of everything?
20:41:02 <alise> as long as it frees this up?
20:41:03 <ais523> well, given that she can't fight back
20:41:10 <alise> ais523: am i meant to feel pitiful?
20:41:24 <Deewiant> If you blind yourself so that you can telepathy-see it, you might be able to lance it
20:41:40 <ais523> Deewiant: I think it's based on LOS, not line of telepathy
20:41:49 <Deewiant> I was hoping that wouldn't work :-P
20:42:12 <ais523> quiver isn't necessary, it's just a timesaver
20:42:16 <ais523> as in, RL time, not gametime
20:42:25 <ais523> use Q in order to set an item as your default to throw
20:42:32 <ais523> then you can throw it with f without selecting the item each time
20:42:33 <alise> You feel like an evil coward for using a poisoned weapon.--More--
20:42:41 <ais523> meh, the penalty's meaningless
20:42:41 <alise> The poison was deadly...
20:42:47 <ais523> and it did instakill the nymph
20:42:55 <alise> Ooh, looking glass!
20:43:01 <ais523> the potion is /probably/ object detection, btw
20:43:02 <alise> Sgeo: LOOKING GLASS DAMMIT
20:43:03 <ais523> but that isn't guaranteed
20:43:10 <alise> would you have called Alice's second book
20:43:11 <Deewiant> alise: Identify it and it's a mirror, IIRC
20:43:12 <alise> Through the Mirror?
20:43:29 <ais523> push the top boulder down
20:43:30 <alise> ais523: down, left
20:43:38 -!- Gregor-P has joined.
20:44:24 <ais523> the boulder in the centre
20:44:25 <zzo38> An idea that can work in nearly any computer game with experience points, is this: After you reach maximum experience level, the experience points start working backwards instead. And then once it is back at minimum, it no longer changes during the rest of the game. This way you try not to waste too much time and stuff to complete the game
20:44:26 <alise> ais523: now it's the 00 bit, isn't it?
20:44:28 <ais523> move it right two, then left 3
20:44:41 <ais523> then along the same path as the previous boulder
20:44:45 <ais523> you have to run round at this point
20:45:10 <ais523> normally you don't care
20:45:12 <zzo38> Is this idea about experience level, sensible for you?
20:45:23 <Gregor-P> zzo38: In terms of being a simile for life though, that's weird.
20:45:27 <ais523> zzo38: no, due to the ease of reducing your own XP
20:45:47 <ais523> I like Wesnoth's XP system; after you reach max level, you get fully healed whenever you would level up
20:45:53 <ais523> and also get a meaningless boost to max HP
20:45:59 <Sgeo> "meaningless"?
20:46:14 <alise> ais523: why is Felix 2: Electric Boogaloo a bloodthirsty murderer?
20:46:18 <ais523> because pets are like that
20:46:32 <alise> ais523: is two cats in sokoban insanity or AWESOME?
20:46:33 <zzo38> ais523: No, I don't like that.... I think for a computer game, my idea of experience points workable way!!
20:46:33 <ais523> it's up to you whether to gain felix 3, or just kill that cat
20:46:36 <Sgeo> Because he's preparing to turn on you when you next try to kill him
20:46:42 <alise> ais523: i can always tame it and then let it die :D
20:47:07 * alise checks to see if Breakin' had a second sequel
20:47:21 <alise> "Electric Boogaloo" - Ollie & Jerry
20:47:21 <alise> "Radiotron" - Firefox
20:47:23 <alise> let's go with Radiotron
20:47:50 <ais523> that's what they're for
20:48:00 <alise> (to watch the action)
20:48:11 <ais523> wait, what killed felix 2?
20:48:16 <alise> Stupid enough to attack a gnomish wizard
20:48:16 <ais523> something that doesn't show up on telepathy
20:48:24 <ais523> kill that rat yourself
20:48:41 <zzo38> Gregor-P: Yes it is weird but it is a computer game
20:48:51 <ais523> it's the wererat that's dangerous
20:48:53 <Sgeo> Aren't you glad you didn't kill Felix 3 yet?
20:48:57 <alise> ais523: it's following me
20:49:00 <ais523> take off the blindfold
20:49:14 <ais523> because there might be something hostile and mindless
20:49:22 <ais523> you don't want to be cornered by a golem or whatever
20:49:27 <alise> just run from this wererat, right?
20:49:33 <alise> or attack with lance if i must?
20:49:34 <ais523> and run upstairs before it catches you
20:49:41 <ais523> and sword's likely better
20:49:45 <ais523> as the lance doesn't work at range 1
20:49:55 <Sgeo> Ooh, smoky potion
20:50:01 <ais523> ooh, amulet of reflection level
20:50:09 <ais523> this one is a pain, especially as two of the boulders are fake
20:50:10 <alise> see, i am not pleased here
20:50:23 <ais523> (although you can see them via telepathy)
20:50:23 <coppro> won't telepathy reveal the fake boulders?
20:50:30 <ais523> Sgeo: mimics pretending to be boulders
20:50:39 <ais523> ok, now we know where the fakes are, this is a bit easier
20:50:46 <alise> keep blindfold for now?
20:50:51 <alise> also: omg @ those monsters
20:50:52 <ais523> I'd normally go without
20:50:56 <alise> what have i gotten myself into
20:50:59 <ais523> and welcome to the boss at the end of Sokoban
20:50:59 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:51:00 <alise> ais523: memorised the positoins? :P
20:51:08 <alise> BOSS? that's not a boss, that's a ... I don't know what that is
20:51:13 <alise> ais523: well, I'll tame those two cats and dogs
20:51:15 <alise> to help me fight it
20:51:22 <ais523> yep, once you get there
20:51:26 <ais523> first you have to solve the puzzle
20:51:29 <ais523> anyway, first boulder goes right
20:51:31 <alise> yes, that is the difficult bit
20:51:42 <ais523> kill the first fake boulder
20:51:48 <ais523> it's the left of that pair to your left
20:52:04 <ais523> you can eat the corpse for a funny message
20:52:07 <ais523> it doesn't do anything bad
20:52:09 <Sgeo> Unless you want to be miney for a while
20:52:18 <alise> ais523: I love the "mimicking a dwarf again" bit
20:52:19 <ais523> ok, go back to the original boulder
20:52:19 <Sgeo> Wait, it doesn't take turns?
20:52:25 <alise> like, i start actually believing that i'm a mime.
20:52:26 <ais523> Sgeo: not turns on which anything bad happens
20:52:40 <ais523> if monsters turn up, you ambush them
20:52:41 <alise> push one right or one left?
20:52:51 <alise> <alise> push one right or one left?
20:52:53 <Sgeo> ais523, ah, awesome
20:52:59 <ais523> push it right two squares
20:53:14 <alise> is this one meant to be near-impossible?
20:53:17 <zzo38> O, a lot of people can tame a dog and cat, tame somethings else. Tame a spider, or tame yourself, or the big monster with a lot of invisibility and so much poison that you are instantly dead if you touched it
20:53:18 <ais523> then move the one to the right of the one you just pushed up one square
20:53:28 <ais523> alise: well, I did it first time with only two mistakes, unspoilt
20:53:35 <alise> ais523: right, but you're good at sokoban
20:53:40 <ais523> alise: the one to the right of the one you just moved, up two
20:53:49 <alise> zzo38: taming cats & dogs only takes a ration, though
20:53:56 <alise> although i'm out of tripe
20:54:07 <alise> zzo38: it can only go up one
20:54:07 <Sgeo> One person supposedly tamed Pestilence
20:54:12 <alise> Sgeo: yes, and ascended with it
20:54:19 <ais523> alise: you'll have to typo less often
20:54:21 <alise> ais523: oh to the right.
20:54:25 <ais523> smash the boulder you just moved
20:54:31 <ais523> whilst not smashing any of the others
20:54:44 <alise> I am a disgrace to humanity
20:54:45 <ais523> kill the fake boulder, anyway
20:54:49 <ais523> it's the one in the topleft corner
20:54:54 <zzo38> alise: Yes, of course, they are easy, ify ou can find ration, that is why you have to try for the other ways. Tame yourself instead, perhaps?
20:55:09 <ais523> anyway, the boulder next to the centre room
20:55:12 <ais523> push it left two spaces
20:55:21 -!- jcp has joined.
20:55:29 <ais523> (left /two/ spaces, that was one)
20:55:29 <alise> don't you mean THREE spaces
20:55:45 <ais523> then push the boulder to your left two spaces
20:55:48 <alise> we both have skills and flaws here!
20:55:48 <ais523> (and it is two, this time)
20:56:00 <ais523> push the boulder above you up one
20:56:02 <Sgeo> Well, ya can't push it 3 anyway
20:56:10 <ais523> then the boulder over the left up one
20:56:20 <ais523> push the boulder below you down one first
20:56:36 <ais523> now move the top-left up one
20:56:37 <Sgeo> There's an easy to move boulder
20:56:50 <ais523> this one's obvious, at least
20:56:58 <ais523> now move the rightmost of the ones you can move down one
20:56:58 <alise> i'm going to lose felix 3, aren't I?
20:57:07 <ais523> alise: as long as it's on the same level, it won't untame
20:57:26 <ais523> move the top-left one up, right, rigtht
20:57:46 <ais523> the next one is obvious
20:57:54 <coppro> I dislike both of the level 4 sokobans
20:57:57 <ais523> move the one blocking the centre room up one
20:58:02 <alise> I dislike [...] sokobans.
20:58:08 <ais523> coppro: I like the solution to the BoH sokoban that doesn't block any boulders
20:58:13 <ais523> alise: go back to the start
20:58:16 -!- myndzi\ has joined.
20:58:16 <ais523> without moving boulers
20:58:19 <alise> is bag of holding or this better?
20:58:30 <ais523> this is better for survivability
20:58:30 <alise> as far as the prize
20:58:35 <ais523> alise: the middle of the group of three, move it up
20:58:37 <alise> what does bag of holding do?
20:58:44 <coppro> it allows you to carry more stuff
20:58:45 <Sgeo> Things stored in it weigh less
20:58:49 <ais523> amulet of reflection protects you from most wands
20:58:51 <alise> three interpretations of it
20:59:04 <coppro> amulet of reflection is better if you don't have magic resistance I'd say
20:59:17 <ais523> coppro: it's better if you do have MR, too
20:59:18 <Sgeo> Don't store unID'd wands
20:59:20 <alise> ais523: that middle one
20:59:22 <ais523> because then you have reflection and MR
20:59:22 <alise> in the vertical three
20:59:25 <alise> then up all the way?
20:59:26 <ais523> alise: yep, that works
20:59:30 <Sgeo> Unless cancel is IDed
20:59:45 <Sgeo> And don't store BoHs in BoHs
20:59:52 <coppro> ais423: Sure, but there is some overlap there
20:59:53 <alise> do they destroy spacetime?
20:59:53 <ais523> well, this level doesn't have a BoH, so it's moot
20:59:57 <Sgeo> And don't store bag of tricks in BoHs, I _think_
21:00:00 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:00:05 <ais523> Sgeo: yep, and don't store wands of cancellation
21:00:21 <ais523> don't trap felix 3 behind it
21:00:24 <coppro> unided wands are fine if you engrave-test them as something other than cancellation
21:00:24 <ais523> wait a couple of turns, it'll move
21:00:32 <ais523> you can push the boudler onto the I
21:00:42 <ais523> it just marks the last known location of an invisible monster
21:01:01 <ais523> the one on the far left moves up 2, right 2
21:01:18 <ais523> but I can't remember why
21:01:20 <alise> <PinoBot> i | imp | Spd: 12 | Small | Genocidable | Lvl: 3 | AC: 2 | MR: 20 | Difficulty: 4 | Align: -7 | Corpse wgt: 20 | Nutr: 10 | Atk: claw physical 1d4 | Flags: regen, stalk, wander, infravision, infravisible, imp, drain resistance
21:01:21 <coppro> I have items that can't go in bags of holding highlighed in blue so I don't accidentally put them in
21:01:28 <ais523> err, no reason not to, it seems
21:01:42 <ais523> you don't want to move in soko while confused
21:01:44 <alise> imagine stun in sokoban
21:01:48 <ais523> OK, leftmost boulder, up two right two
21:02:11 <ais523> next, move the boulder in the centre room out through its left exit
21:02:12 <alise> what is it with cats and picking shit up and then dropping it?
21:02:17 <ais523> alise: they're fetching for you
21:02:22 <ais523> the behaviour was originally implemented for dogs
21:02:28 <ais523> and cats and dogs are functionally identical
21:02:43 <alise> weirdest cat ever, that's all i'll say
21:02:47 <ais523> ugh, not enough boulders left to complete the level
21:02:54 <ais523> due to you breaking three earlier on
21:03:00 <alise> ok, how do i create them?
21:03:00 <ais523> well, all the remaining ones go in
21:03:05 <coppro> you'll need a scroll of earth
21:03:06 <ais523> and then we can create some with the scroll of earth
21:03:09 <ais523> but do that afterwards
21:03:16 <Sgeo> You should have 2
21:03:31 <ais523> move the top of the two boulders over the right up
21:03:35 <ais523> to the centre room entrance
21:03:40 <ais523> then push it through the centre room
21:03:45 <Sgeo> Oh, and it will hurt a bit
21:03:52 <alise> the one closest to the entrance?
21:03:52 <ais523> hmm, either of the two on the top work
21:03:57 <Sgeo> And be unlucky
21:03:58 <ais523> although I was thinking of the one by the entrance
21:04:08 <ais523> push it through the centre room
21:04:23 <ais523> you can do that with all the boulders over the right
21:05:29 <ais523> the one at the far right
21:06:04 <ais523> OK, you need to move the near boulder down
21:06:05 <alise> ais523: push down?
21:06:07 <ais523> then push it from the right
21:06:10 <alise> i suggested that earlier!
21:06:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: q).
21:06:30 <ais523> same with the other one by the centre room
21:06:47 <alise> where did that come from?
21:06:50 <ais523> that isn't felix, or it'd be named
21:07:35 <alise> He should last a while.
21:07:48 <Sgeo> With alise as his owner?
21:08:05 <Sgeo> Oh, because he's not Felix
21:08:05 <ais523> the last boulder moves right
21:08:08 <ais523> then is pushed from below
21:08:10 <alise> Sgeo: no, because he's not fluffy
21:08:20 <ais523> although, don't let your cats get trapped behind it
21:08:45 <Sgeo> Wha? How can you tell?
21:09:00 <ais523> there's a monster drinking potions, and a rock mole eating all the gold
21:09:03 <alise> ais523: how many pets can i expect to get in the zoo to help me?
21:09:13 <ais523> alise: the difficulty is aiming at them
21:09:14 <alise> I have 4 rations, a clove of garlic, and a fortune cookie.
21:09:23 <ais523> because of all the other monsters in the way
21:09:31 <alise> earth scroll thing
21:09:33 <ais523> OK, time to use a scroll of earth
21:09:33 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi.
21:09:36 <ais523> you need to move to an open space
21:09:43 <Sgeo> Actually, couldn't he do it there?
21:09:45 <Deewiant> Why not just use it before if you had to use it anyway
21:09:49 <ais523> Sgeo: he'd be trapped on the way back
21:09:50 <alise> Deewiant: ais523 said not to :P
21:09:55 <Sgeo> No he wouldn't I think
21:09:59 <ais523> alise: that's the best square to use the scroll from
21:10:02 <Sgeo> If it's 1 surrounding
21:10:05 <alise> ais523: is it? i picked well
21:10:05 <ais523> but make sure your cats are well clear, you don't want to kill them
21:10:16 <alise> is that clear enough?
21:10:18 <ais523> that's a safe distance
21:10:21 <ais523> read a scroll of earth
21:10:32 <Sgeo> Told you it would hurt
21:10:42 <alise> before fighting these guys
21:10:44 <ais523> let your pets get near too
21:11:01 <ais523> once that hole is filled, all hell breaks loose, pretty much
21:11:09 <pikhq> #esoteric: all Nethack, all the time.
21:11:10 <ais523> especially if one of the monsters has figured out how to open the door
21:11:11 <alise> i think i killed felix
21:11:17 <alise> pikhq: telnet termcast.org
21:11:39 <ais523> must be, it's fighting something
21:11:50 <Sgeo> Are you searching
21:11:57 <pikhq> alise: Wow, live Nethack.
21:12:09 <alise> pikhq: nethack.alt.org has that too though :P
21:12:14 <ais523> the trick here's to use your pets to avoid being cornered
21:12:20 * pikhq puts it on his phone
21:12:41 <ais523> let the cat kill the ray
21:12:53 <alise> I'm just going to let them trickle in
21:12:55 <alise> rather than fighting them in one spot
21:13:01 <pikhq> God *damn* the terminal emulator sucks.
21:13:01 <ais523> it's a typical strategy
21:13:06 <pikhq> It's, like, not VT100.
21:13:22 <alise> not very fluffy sucks at hitting things
21:13:28 <alise> you're in a corridor! it's right next to you!
21:13:31 <alise> how can you miss it?!
21:13:40 <Sgeo> Those spaces are large enough for dragons
21:13:44 <Sgeo> And small enough for ants
21:13:52 <alise> everything is the same size in nethack!
21:13:53 <alise> even the giant things!
21:14:08 <alise> ais523: can i just kill the bloody rock mole
21:14:12 <alise> ais523: actually, can i go find fluffy?
21:14:25 <ais523> although I don't know how long fluffy will survive on its own
21:15:18 <Sgeo> Roughly how unlucky is alise?
21:15:26 <alise> ais523: HOW DO I GET FELIX TO GO AHEAD OF ME
21:15:41 <pikhq> Sgeo: Insufficiently.
21:15:45 <pikhq> He should eat his cat.
21:15:55 <alise> pikhq: I killed a pet pony by rolling it into a pit once
21:16:00 <ais523> so felix can't get back behind you
21:16:20 <ais523> ok, that door must be open
21:16:24 <ais523> things are walking through it
21:16:26 <ais523> (it just isn't in LOS yet)
21:16:42 <alise> this is the easiest boss ever
21:16:50 <ais523> alise: with pets, it is pretty easy
21:16:57 <alise> felix even picked up gold for me
21:16:57 <ais523> most people don't bother dragging pets through Sokoban, though
21:17:04 <alise> ais523: I just let mine wonder
21:17:06 <alise> and do all the fighting
21:17:16 <alise> can't imagine doing this on my own
21:17:19 <ais523> I suppose it's in the nature of cats to bite rats
21:17:21 <alise> ais523: can i go blind?
21:17:22 <alise> i wanna see the action
21:17:25 <ais523> also, I've done it on my own, but it wasn't awake at the time
21:17:42 <ais523> only risk is that a mindless creature sneaks up behind you; if that happens, just take the blindfold back off
21:17:43 <alise> You hear a wererat reading a scroll labeled HACKEM MUCHE.
21:17:46 <Sgeo> Is there a chance of c?
21:17:50 <alise> What the what what
21:17:53 <ais523> hmm, I wonder what that did
21:18:01 <ais523> see if you know what the label means
21:18:08 <ais523> I'm guessing create monster, though
21:18:16 <ais523> it's the only scroll monsters regularly read
21:18:20 <alise> MWAHAHAHA GO INTO THE ARENA PITIFUL KITTENS
21:18:25 <alise> ais523: it was a were-, though
21:18:32 <alise> so perhaps a @ at the time
21:18:35 <ais523> yep, thus intelligent enough to read scrolls in @ form
21:18:50 <alise> i wanna tame the kittieeeees
21:18:51 <Sgeo> ais523, is there a chance of c here?
21:19:01 <ais523> try not to move while blind
21:19:02 <Sgeo> Then alise shouldn't be blind right now
21:19:07 <ais523> in case you step onto a c corpse and die instantly
21:19:08 <Sgeo> Or, yeah, don't move
21:19:13 <ais523> you cna tame that kitten
21:19:23 <alise> will a fortune cookie work?
21:19:28 <ais523> although it'll eat the fortune
21:19:49 <alise> yes, i am aware that is a kitten
21:20:05 <ais523> this zoo's almost clear by now
21:20:06 <alise> I know, I hope to drain the d too.
21:20:12 <ais523> take the blindfold off; you can see in there /anyway/
21:20:16 <alise> Fuck you, water nymph!
21:20:22 <ais523> if she reads that thing...
21:20:28 <ais523> yes, attack and hope to kill her first
21:20:36 <ais523> phew, only had one hit left in her
21:20:37 <coppro> what scroll did she steal?
21:20:57 <ais523> would have probably killed all the pets simultaneously, also trapped alise from going any further
21:21:07 <alise> ais523: are fog clouds dangerous?
21:21:12 <ais523> fog clouds are pretty harmless to players, but potentially dangerous to pets
21:21:12 <Flonk> ô_o what game are you talking about
21:21:14 <alise> if not, I want to go in and try and tame the dog
21:21:15 <ais523> kill it yourself if you can
21:21:19 <alise> Flonk: telnet termcast.org if you want to see
21:21:30 <alise> ais523: so it's ok to go in now, right?
21:21:35 <alise> the leprechaun might rob me but i don't care
21:21:38 <ais523> the zoo's almost empty
21:21:41 <alise> Flonk: i'm alise obvs
21:22:00 <ais523> btw, you'll need to make multiple trips just to get more than two pets down the stairs
21:22:04 <Sgeo> If I play NetHack later, will people here help me out?
21:22:09 <alise> ais523: is garlic valuable?
21:22:14 <alise> but i'm little help :P
21:22:18 <ais523> alise: it scares vampires, so no
21:22:31 <ais523> but it doesn't tame dogs, just make them peaceful
21:22:35 <alise> Eh, I can spare a food ration.
21:22:56 <Sgeo> It's a Kitty! Wait, no it's not! You liar!
21:23:04 <alise> Sgeo: And Shaggy Dog isn't shaggy, either!
21:23:12 <Sgeo> You're part of the Micky Mouse conspiracy! </psox-reference>
21:23:14 <alise> ais523: is there a safe way to kill that leprechaun?
21:23:19 <coppro> the leprechaon is harmless
21:23:26 <alise> coppro: BUT MONEYS
21:23:26 <ais523> the leprechaun can't teleport in Sokoban
21:23:27 <Sgeo> Leprechaun can't teleport here
21:23:28 <ais523> so you get a free kill
21:23:36 <ais523> it steals, you just steal back
21:23:37 <Sgeo> Eating it gives you teleportitis
21:23:40 <coppro> if it steals moneys, you'll get them back when you kill it
21:23:46 <Sgeo> Which you may or may not want
21:23:49 <Sgeo> It will let you escape the vault
21:23:55 <Sgeo> NExt time you're there
21:24:06 <Sgeo> Wait, did he eat it?
21:24:23 <ais523> alise: check those rooms over the left
21:24:26 <alise> i should have three cats
21:24:27 <ais523> one should have an amulet
21:24:31 <ais523> alise: one's probably just out of view
21:24:45 <ais523> wait, what happened to the amulet?
21:24:51 <ais523> a monster must have spawned on it
21:24:57 <alise> you are joking, right?
21:24:58 <ais523> no, the amulet's generated on an elbereth
21:25:01 <ais523> to stop things picking it up
21:25:06 <alise> i just did sokoban
21:25:07 <ais523> but if a monster spawns on the square, anything can happen
21:25:13 <coppro> did you find an amulet anywhere else?
21:25:14 <ais523> well, the amulet's probably still around here somewhere
21:25:17 <ais523> unless something ate it
21:25:37 <coppro> the door wasn't open, though
21:25:57 <alise> ais523: what do amulets look like?
21:26:12 <ais523> you might have picked it up already
21:26:21 <ais523> amulets sort to the top of the list
21:26:23 <alise> ais523: maybe one of my pets have it
21:26:34 <ais523> oh, right, pets don't respect Elbereth
21:26:43 <ais523> nah, just wait for them to drop it
21:26:48 <ais523> cats and dogs don't hang on to amulets
21:26:50 <alise> "Your pets have something ... KILL THEM!"
21:26:57 <coppro> yeah, just see if they drop it
21:27:06 <alise> maybe the dog has it
21:27:11 <coppro> k, NVFAA doesn't have it
21:27:45 <alise> Did I just go through Sokoban for nothing?
21:27:50 <coppro> you got lots of xp and food
21:27:59 <coppro> Mathnerd314: amulet of reflection
21:28:00 <alise> Mathnerd314: reflection or something
21:28:14 <ais523> I've never seen that happen before
21:28:30 <ais523> besides, you'll be better at sokoban in future
21:28:34 <alise> ais523: is there a way to shake my pets to make them drop stuff? :P
21:28:42 <coppro> alise: they can only hold one item
21:28:48 <coppro> every put has already picked something up
21:28:51 <ais523> they'll drop it in time nayway
21:29:00 <alise> so now i have to go all the way back up?
21:29:04 <Sgeo> Maybe it's on those [?
21:29:20 <ais523> alise: that's the end of Sokoban, anyway
21:29:24 <ais523> next stop, generally the Mines
21:29:37 <ais523> although they're safer with the amulet, which I still haven't figured out where it went
21:29:41 <alise> ais523: how many pets do you think I'll have when i come out of sokoban?
21:29:50 <ais523> depends on how patient you are
21:30:14 <alise> no, depends on how filled with love for my pets i am
21:30:42 <ais523> because I want to do something else now
21:30:55 <alise> coppro: you're on stop-me-doing-something-retarded duty >.>
21:31:49 <alise> anyone good at herding cats?!
21:32:24 <alise> just move a bit then blow it?
21:32:26 <alise> how long does it last?
21:32:30 <Sgeo> If it's magic, it's awesome
21:32:40 <alise> can i use it from an arbitrary distance?
21:32:50 <Sgeo> I know nothing about regular
21:33:10 <alise> i killed a kobold by running
21:33:12 <Sgeo> Might want to engrave-test the gem
21:33:12 <alise> pikhq: are you watching?
21:33:16 <alise> Sgeo: how do you do that?
21:33:27 <Sgeo> If it writes in the dust, you learn nothing
21:33:32 <Sgeo> If it doesn't, it's valuable
21:33:40 <Sgeo> Green is valuable
21:33:55 <Sgeo> #name call that gem
21:33:58 <alise> Sgeo: green just engraved.
21:34:08 <Sgeo> That means it's not worthless glasss
21:34:19 <Sgeo> valuable green
21:34:39 <Sgeo> You know nothing about black now
21:34:43 <Sgeo> It could be valuable, or not
21:34:56 <Sgeo> Same with violet
21:35:59 <Sgeo> I still think you should be looking for "
21:36:10 <alise> after i get the kitty
21:36:35 <Sgeo> You sure those [ don't hide it?
21:36:55 <alise> If I check now, my pets could become untamed...
21:37:04 <alise> How long does it take?
21:39:34 <Sgeo> http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/DeathOnAStick
21:40:40 <alise> Mathnerd314: if i go onto the same level then back that buys me another 75 turns, right?
21:41:06 <Mathnerd314> I just took the first number from http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Tameness
21:41:07 <Sgeo> BTW, there's a _ command
21:41:21 <Sgeo> Dammit think before you move
21:41:32 <Sgeo> It lets you move quickly (in terms of RL)
21:42:16 <alise> Sgeo: It wasn't there.
21:42:40 <Sgeo> Yes, that's your fault
21:42:52 <Sgeo> You should have seen the light, you should have blindfolded yourself
21:43:17 <alise> I didn't realise what it was >_>
21:43:32 <alise> Finally, the gnomish wizard dies!
21:44:23 * Sgeo looks something up quickly
21:44:29 <alise> Sgeo: Where did the wererat go?
21:46:28 <Sgeo> I have no idea what happens if you see Medusa via telepathy
21:46:35 <Sgeo> I _think_ it's nonfatal
21:46:40 <Sgeo> I'd still rather you have the "reflect
21:47:06 <alise> Sgeo: Unfortunately it has been eaten.
21:48:14 <Sgeo> alise, you have the mirror, right?
21:48:47 <Sgeo> Ok, and you have the good blindfold
21:48:51 <Sgeo> Should be no problem
21:49:52 <alise> I'm pretty sure Felix 3 doesn't love me any more.
21:50:01 <Sgeo> Is the whistle magic?
21:50:07 <alise> Not as far as I can tell.
21:50:37 <Sgeo> What's the message?
21:50:49 <alise> Sgeo: "You produce a high-pitched whistling noise." or words to that effect
21:51:09 <Sgeo> that's not a message for any whistle
21:51:20 <alise> ONE OF THE MONSTERS MUST AHVE ESCAPED
21:51:26 <alise> Sgeo: what are the messages?
21:51:31 <coppro> it could be a random other amulet
21:51:41 <Sgeo> high whistling for tin
21:51:53 <Sgeo> high-pitched humming for cursed magic
21:52:07 <alise> coppro: pyramidal?
21:52:24 <ais523> heh, you found the amulet?
21:52:37 <Sgeo> We don't know if it's reflection or not
21:52:48 <coppro> alise: see if a pet will move on it
21:53:24 <Sgeo> alise, do a non-cursed check
21:53:28 <Sgeo> If it's not cursed, wear it
21:53:51 <alise> Sgeo: how do i do that check all the way out here?
21:53:58 <alise> ais523: a wererat dropped it; some werecreature was in that fierce battle
21:54:06 <alise> and, i suppose, could theoretically have escaped without me noticing
21:54:12 <Sgeo> Drop it, if a pet stands on it, it's not cursed
21:54:16 <ais523> and you can cursecheck by dropping it and letting a pet stand on it
21:54:25 <alise> Not Very Fluffy At All, Really moves only reluctantly.
21:54:30 <Sgeo> Where did it move to?
21:54:36 <Sgeo> ais523, it doesn't seem to be on the "
21:54:36 <ais523> whatever it stepped on, that is
21:54:42 <ais523> well, see if it steps on the "
21:54:45 <ais523> without moving reluctantly
21:54:54 <alise> none of them have stepped on it yet
21:55:06 <alise> uh oh, here comes trouble
21:55:20 <alise> ais523: do ponies like pancakes
21:55:46 <ais523> alise: I think they make them peaceful
21:56:02 <alise> i only have one food ration left!
21:56:09 <ais523> (food rations don't tame ponies anyway)
21:56:28 * alise looks up names of My Little Ponys
21:56:54 <Sgeo> What else in the vicinity could have been cursed?
21:57:28 <alise> meh, i'll just call it Sparkle
21:57:40 <alise> ais523: pony just stepped on the amulet
21:57:50 <Sgeo> You didn't pick it up just now?
21:58:05 <alise> ais523: could you tune in to termcast?
21:58:09 <alise> i'm not sure whether they're avoiding it just by chance
21:58:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:59:14 <Sgeo> But at this point, it's looking dismal
21:59:25 <Sgeo> BTW, don't wear cursed amulets
21:59:30 <alise> so this /isn't/ the sokoban amulet?
21:59:32 <alise> also, what does that do?
21:59:50 <coppro> yeah, I'd say that's cursed
21:59:51 <Sgeo> Cursed amulets? Well, one amulet can kill you in 6 turns
22:00:00 -!- tombom__ has joined.
22:00:01 <coppro> and it's usually generated cursed
22:00:07 <alise> how do you fix it?
22:00:12 <Sgeo> alise, by removing it
22:00:25 <Sgeo> Holy Water is easiest
22:00:30 <coppro> or a scroll of uncursing
22:00:32 <alise> i'll hang on to it
22:00:35 <alise> should i name it cursed for now?
22:01:06 <alise> now to get all my pets
22:01:12 <alise> coppro: how do I get to minetown, btw?
22:01:27 <Sgeo> Go up, and find the other > somewhere up there
22:01:37 <Sgeo> Where the sky is blue, where baby burp and flowers bloom
22:01:42 <alise> coppro: did I miss a pet?
22:02:02 <coppro> I haven't been keeping it open
22:02:03 <alise> coppro: felix 3 never follows me but the others do
22:02:06 <alise> is it because he's older or something?
22:02:10 <alise> do i need to feed him
22:02:19 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716]).
22:02:23 -!- tombom_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:02:28 <alise> does feeding help?
22:03:18 <alise> all five pets on one screen
22:03:50 <alise> http://i.imgur.com/Jw8jG.png
22:04:00 -!- olsner has joined.
22:04:19 <alise> coppro: so now what, just head down to the >?
22:04:33 <coppro> or go back to the mines
22:04:51 <coppro> the entrance is on dlvl 2 or 3 iirc
22:04:57 <alise> is that the best idea?
22:05:32 <coppro> you're probably safe for a few more levels on the main branch; I wouldn't recommend going below about 10 before the mines, but that's me
22:05:48 <alise> i'll just head to the mines then
22:06:08 <coppro> the mines can be dangerous though because they are open and have lots of monsters, so be careful
22:06:16 <alise> coppro: yes, but i have five pets
22:06:35 <coppro> gnome with a wand of death
22:06:35 <Sgeo> /Death would not be a concern if that amulet were there!
22:06:55 <alise> Sgeo: i have the amulet
22:07:11 <Sgeo> coppro, can the "ofReflection in Soko be generated cursed?
22:07:13 <alise> coppro: will the mirror work?
22:07:23 <alise> Sgeo: coppro said it's usually cursed
22:07:32 <alise> hey, deathonastick is playing?
22:07:34 <coppro> no, I meant the "oStrangulation
22:07:50 <coppro> IIRC, bad jewelry is 90% cursed, and good is 10% cursed
22:08:05 <alise> is this amlet likely to be the reflection in any way?
22:08:15 <alise> deathonastick doesn't use colour
22:08:19 <alise> the famous deathonastick!
22:08:21 <Sgeo> alise, well, once it's uncursed, you'll find out
22:08:36 <alise> with completely stock settings
22:09:13 <alise> <zgedneil> alise: we suspect he may be slightly old-fashioned
22:09:13 <alise> <zgedneil> it's just a hunch
22:09:51 <alise> <scorchgeek> he doesn't believe in travel, shift-walk, or selecting a symbol on farlook it seems
22:10:40 <alise> how much shit is on these squares?!
22:10:43 <alise> anyway back to my game
22:10:47 <alise> coppro: so, ascend, yeah?
22:11:04 <alise> my pets are killing machines
22:11:27 <alise> i'm rapidly losing health
22:11:37 <Sgeo> What was that wand?
22:11:44 <coppro> orge was zapping striking
22:11:53 <alise> <zgedneil> 231 potions of holy water
22:11:54 <alise> <zgedneil> that's... WTF
22:12:00 <alise> should i zap striking in return, or what?
22:12:34 <coppro> yeah, give it one shot I'd say
22:12:42 <alise> coppro: you watching deathonastick?
22:12:46 <alise> he's bloody insane!
22:12:53 <alise> but you should take a look anyway :|
22:13:18 <alise> coppro: keep zapping him with it?
22:13:38 <alise> coppro: he's playing without graphics, without colour
22:13:44 <alise> he has 231 holy waters
22:13:46 <alise> he isn't using travel
22:14:01 <alise> and he's apparently been farlooking every possible ghost
22:14:04 <alise> rather than changing the symbol
22:14:07 <alise> coppro: dlvl 13, he has the amulet
22:14:10 <alise> i'm not sure where that is
22:14:15 <alise> but he's close to ascending, sources say
22:14:24 <alise> coppro: also, these squares have two pages of items each on them
22:14:30 <alise> also he is wearing tons of shit
22:14:31 <coppro> he just dug the whole level out
22:14:53 <alise> <zgedneil> this is such a weird game though, it's just a different scale to anything except, I don't know, extinctionist?
22:15:01 <Sgeo> Let's hope he doesn't make the same mistake twice
22:15:06 <alise> <zgedneil> I wonder if he's going to enter the planes unburdened
22:15:06 <alise> <zgedneil> I suspect... possibly not
22:15:22 <alise> i wonder what he's trying to do
22:15:30 <Sgeo> Same thing he tried last time?
22:15:33 <alise> <ziedrich> he's blesssing everything in his inventory lol
22:15:41 <alise> Sgeo: no, he doesn't have any gems or anything
22:15:45 <alise> <zgedneil> alise: ascend with a stupid number of gems, I believe
22:15:59 <alise> <scorchgeek> "Your wand of death glows with a light blue aura."
22:16:21 <coppro> http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/DeathOnAStick
22:16:58 <Sgeo> Don't zap /death at Death
22:17:31 <alise> i - a +0 orcish helm
22:17:31 <alise> q - an orcish cloak
22:17:32 <Sgeo> No, Death, the monster
22:17:34 <alise> I don't need that helm, do I?
22:17:40 <alise> Sgeo: is death in my game right now?
22:18:02 <Sgeo> If you get close to ascending
22:18:11 <fizzie> Also, don't try to eat Death.
22:18:26 <alise> coppro: god dammit, i need leashes for all these pets!
22:18:27 * Sgeo never even crossed Medusa
22:18:28 <alise> how do you get leashes?
22:18:37 <alise> <Iku_> If it's not blessed, it's not good enough for DoaS.
22:18:52 <fizzie> What you need is a magic whistle; that's a good pet-management tool.
22:19:10 <Sgeo> He has a whistle of unknown, but possible tin, type
22:19:23 <alise> <ziedrich> did he dig out every single level?
22:19:23 <alise> <scorchgeek> ziedrich: yeah
22:19:39 <alise> is there an easy way to get a magic one? :P
22:19:48 <alise> <Iku_> He's not insane, just a little compulsive, and also not getting with the times. (Or, blind an playing on a braille terminal while insane).
22:19:48 <alise> <scorchgeek> Iku_: huh, there's a theory I've never heard before
22:19:48 <alise> <scorchgeek> blind playing nethack.
22:20:15 <alise> <irina> I used to know someone who played on a braille terminal
22:20:16 <alise> <irina> ascended, too
22:21:18 <coppro> you know, you could just tell us to go into #nethack
22:21:31 <alise> <irina> note to self: self, the scroll you called enchant weapon is actually remove curse.
22:21:35 <alise> coppro: well, that's true.
22:21:50 <alise> I filter out the highest-quality #nethack material
22:22:17 <alise> something that tells me how many pets i have on a level
22:22:19 <alise> to see if i missed one
22:23:10 <alise> <ButterMuffin> now THAT'S crazy prepared.
22:23:10 <alise> <ButterMuffin> keeping cockatrice corpses in an icebox next to the 2 level downstairs.
22:23:41 <alise> coppro: dlvl 2 or 3 right?
22:23:47 <coppro> it'll be a second downstair
22:24:02 <alise> You are laden with moisture and can barely breathe!
22:24:17 -!- wareya_ has joined.
22:24:18 <alise> Sgeo: I'M INSIDE IT
22:24:19 -!- wareya_ has changed nick to wareya.
22:24:28 <Sgeo> Doesn't mean you can't kill it
22:24:33 <alise> just hit the walls?
22:24:39 <Sgeo> Yes, I _think_
22:24:45 <alise> lol deathonastick has $0
22:25:00 <Sgeo> alise, check your moisture-vulnerable stuff
22:25:10 <alise> The water nymph pretends to be friendly to Shaggy Dog.--More--
22:26:07 <alise> i'm a bit low on food...
22:26:19 <alise> coppro: how far do you think i'll get?
22:26:23 <alise> wareya: i mean in nethack.
22:26:44 <wareya> That was a while ago, though
22:28:01 <alise> coppro: 2/3 or 3/4 for mines?
22:28:01 -!- Gregor-P has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:28:11 <coppro> it'll be a second downstair
22:28:16 -!- Gregor-P has joined.
22:29:20 <Sgeo> When should alise dip for Excalibur?
22:29:46 <alise> <Iku_> As interesting as DoaS might be, I think I might return to my game in search of a wand of cancellation.
22:30:52 <alise> i /think/ deathonastick is about to ascend.
22:30:55 <alise> Sgeo: yeah, when :P
22:31:19 <alise> <Rodney> rickRoll (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 20 points, killed by a succubus, while helpless
22:31:19 <alise> <kerio> hehe, he's no stranger to love
22:32:58 <coppro> yes Sgeo, those are pets
22:34:07 <olsner> nethack seems incredibly boring
22:36:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
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22:39:29 <wareya> I may have posted this a long time ago, but fuck it: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Redstone_circuits
22:39:45 <wareya> It's essentially just NOT and OR gates anyway
22:58:20 <alise> I have a friend who knows the creator of Minecraft. Am I special?
22:58:48 <oerjan> well, 2 degrees of separation, how many _should_ that be?
22:58:58 <alise> olsner: i thought nethack was boring too
22:59:01 <alise> but it perks up after a few levels
22:59:07 <oerjan> alise: no, you have 2 there
22:59:17 <alise> oerjan: what did your question mean, then?
22:59:33 <oerjan> i mean how many people should be at 2 degrees of separation
23:00:06 <alise> oerjan: the space of people squares every extra degree of separation, maybe
23:00:18 <alise> taking world population as 6.7 billion
23:00:25 <oerjan> although there's that scale-something thing, he may be a "hub", giving more people
23:00:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:00:42 -!- augur has joined.
23:00:48 <alise> oerjan: then 2 degrees of separation = 4 people
23:01:15 <coppro> alise: I'm about to win BN
23:01:20 <oerjan> alise: er surely you know more than 2 people, and so does your friend :D
23:01:26 -!- Gregor-P has quit (Quit: Bye).
23:01:29 <alise> oerjan: well if six people is the whole world!
23:01:34 <coppro> I just need lilomar to come back and award me the points
23:01:43 <oerjan> there's that 150 number that is sometimes mentioned
23:01:43 -!- Gregor-P has joined.
23:01:46 <alise> oerjan: got a better growth formula?
23:01:53 <alise> 100 is meant to be the maximum you /can/ know, or something
23:02:24 <oerjan> alise: anyway my scale-free thing applies iirc, some people are _hubs_ and are better connected, so your distance to them should be less
23:02:53 <alise> <Rodney> deathonastick[3]: If you ever see him in real life, please give him a hug and tell him that everything is going to be all right.
23:03:03 <coppro> alise: we're all in #nethack
23:03:15 <alise> but you're getting the undigested version
23:03:18 <alise> full of ... of THINGS
23:06:09 <alise> so if anyone is totally bored of watching daos
23:06:59 <alise> it's fucking felix 3 again
23:07:04 <alise> how do you make a cat like you?!
23:07:19 <alise> i tried feeding it
23:11:32 <alise> coppro: are you watching this
23:11:38 <alise> is actively moving away from me
23:11:57 <alise> coppro: is there any way to make a cat like me :|
23:14:44 <alise> too busy with DoaS i bet :'<<<
23:15:29 <coppro> alise: making images for my dynasty
23:15:55 <coppro> know a good editor for pixel-level image editing?
23:16:23 <alise> coppro: pixen for os x :P
23:17:04 <alise> it's designed for it
23:17:16 <alise> it's like ms paint on crack, steroids, layers and a few other drugs of questionable morality
23:17:29 <alise> so no luck on non-os x systems
23:18:27 <alise> it isn't the nicest toolkit to program in
23:24:59 <alise> coppro: should i just abandon felix 3, if he hates me so much?
23:25:19 <alise> coppro: like 70% of my herding time is devoted to chasing after him after all the others come
23:25:28 <alise> does abandoning a pet have any negative effects?
23:25:47 <coppro> it might get feral and attack you later
23:26:09 <alise> coppro: yeah, but ... i can defeat a cat :P
23:26:14 <alise> so, no actual downsides then
23:26:33 <alise> ok, final question then: is there any way to make it like me?
23:27:32 <nooga> tbh pixen looks cool
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23:28:35 <alise> coppro: i'm on dlvl 3, so i should look for another downstairs?
23:28:40 <alise> wait, there is one
23:28:40 -!- augur has joined.
23:28:46 <coppro> alise: I normally explore every level
23:28:49 <coppro> have you not been doing that?
23:30:09 <alise> and i'm still hungry
23:31:07 * alise asks nethack for pet advice
23:31:40 <oerjan> i hate a pancake, i hate the daffodils
23:31:54 <alise> <Rodney> DeathOnAStick entered the Planes, on turn 1481268
23:33:13 <alise> <scummos> he has 6000 hitpoints and AC -56
23:34:57 <nooga> nethanck is unplayable
23:35:04 <nooga> unlike the angband
23:35:54 <alise> Sgeo: for the record
23:36:05 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit).
23:36:07 <alise> ABANDONED FELIX 3: RADIOTRON on Dlvl 3.
23:37:11 <alise> coppro: can i get excalibur now?
23:39:02 <alise> "a" on termcast.org
23:40:28 <alise> Sgeo: so do i just drop the sword in?
23:40:45 <alise> Your long sword rusts somewhat.
23:41:12 <Sgeo> Are you at least level 5?
23:41:25 <alise> Sgeo: just have to keep dipping
23:43:04 <alise> You faint from lack of food. You regain consciousness.
23:47:18 <coppro> there should be lots of food in the early levels of the mines
23:47:33 <coppro> because of all the gnomes
23:53:19 <Sgeo> alise, search that eastern room
23:53:21 <alise> ape corpses okay to eat?
23:53:27 <alise> Sgeo: no, i don't want to look in that room
23:53:33 <Sgeo> alise, why NOT?
23:53:38 <alise> because i have no food
23:53:40 <alise> and i'm going to the mines
23:53:44 <alise> where there is food
23:53:54 <alise> i already have telepathy
23:54:01 <Sgeo> But it may leave a corpse
23:54:39 <alise> Sgeo: you do realise i'm blind
23:54:48 <Sgeo> and not anymore
23:55:02 <Sgeo> blindfold nbefore e attack
23:56:24 <Sgeo> Hold onto lizard corpse
23:56:38 <alise> I'm trying to /avoid/ starving this time.
23:56:40 <Sgeo> They don't spoil, and they can save you in the event of cockatrice hiss
23:57:00 <alise> anyway, mines time
23:57:17 <Sgeo> " It is usually better to eat the corpse since opening a tin may take many turns, and lizard corpses do not rot and never become old to cause sickness. Because of this, it is wise to keep at least one lizard corpse in your inventory."
23:57:19 <alise> now i just have to decide on a pet to put it on
23:57:38 <Sgeo> And it functions as emergency food!
23:57:44 <alise> Sgeo: okay dammit i'll get one later
23:57:48 <alise> right now, can you help me drop stuff?
23:57:54 <alise> how heavy is the cloak?
23:58:01 <Sgeo> I have no idea
23:58:21 <alise> rusty knife can go
23:59:25 <Sgeo> I have no idea