< 1282867673 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282867817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282868160 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282868301 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1282868347 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wareya < 1282869059 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1282869374 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1282869938 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1282870625 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282870647 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three things you should try to guess: How many pages does CZZT currently have? How many pages will it have when it is complete? Also guess how large the Win32 executable file will be when it is finished? < 1282870693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42, 99999, and 35MB < 1282870756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hey you didn't say is should make an _educated_ guess) < 1282870758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i < 1282870777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0, G*i, 1 millibyte. < 1282870792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G*i? < 1282870805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graham's number * sqrt(-1). < 1282870816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a cardinal number, pikhq < 1282870823 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to make an educated guess, next time. I do not know the answer to second and third question, although the first actual answer is more than 42, and my guess for the second is less than 99999 < 1282870829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He never asked for a cardinal. < 1282870835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He asked for a number. < 1282870847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said "how many" < 1282870857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curses, he did ask for a cardinal. < 1282870864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fine. The real component of G*i. < 1282870866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1282870882 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real component of G*i is 0 isn't it? < 1282870887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes it is. < 1282870887 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I can't make an educated guess < 1282870887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very ... right < 1282870902 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can say that it will probably have more than 0 pages, and less thanb.. oh, already done < 1282870947 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is the summary of kinds now spans 2 pages, and I want to get it all on 1 page. Does anyone in here know some things about TeX that I can make it on 1 page? < 1282871017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will tell you the current project size: 67 pages, and 53610 bytes of source codes (all *.w and *.wi files) < 1282871061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what kind of computer can measure in 1 millibyte? Can we invent a esolang like that? < 1282871074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you seen TURKEY BOMB? < 1282871084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't use millibytes, but it does use fractions of a bit < 1282871097 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I have seen. < 1282871130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, but having sub-bit addressing would be awesome. < 1282871136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If bizarre. < 1282871215 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. If someone can figure it out. < 1282871225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :È subito informazione < 1282871318 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now guess how many staplers I have in my desk drawer. < 1282871350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :36 < 1282871370 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1282871390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1282871393 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1282871398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I win a prize? < 1282871406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :179043... darn < 1282871414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't have any prize to give, sorry < 1282871430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could give him the stapler < 1282871438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess how many staplers are in the drawer in the table in front of me < 1282871466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I do if I don't have address? Maybe if I had more than 1 I would send one to you < 1282871473 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you said "staplers", not "staples" < 1282871484 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess, you have no staplers, but you do have a staple remover < 1282871500 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because you already removed the stapler from the drawer) < 1282871528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure if you're right or not < 1282871533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this table doesn't actually have a drawer < 1282871544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus evaluating the number of staplers in it is sort-of difficult < 1282871545 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That was my second guess. < 1282871569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats ais523 ------###
< 1282871583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch! < 1282871593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, where's alise? < 1282871609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen him today < 1282871701 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now guess, how many ranks my D&D character has in Perform(Harp) skill, and also how many claws my D&D character has at each hand/feet, and in total < 1282871713 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also guess the exact number of XP of my D&D character < 1282871724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you play a harp... with claws? < 1282871729 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also of my brother's character < 1282871757 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1282871768 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, it is slightly difficult but if you put harp on table it can be done more effectively, especially if you have enough ranks in that skill, and if you use both hands. < 1282871791 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means, some things ordinary people require 1 hand, some things might need 2 hands instead, but it can still be done < 1282871793 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B21680C.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282871860 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have proven this by doing various things like this with my own hand but not using all my fingers, to see how many are minimum require for certain things) < 1282871971 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After you attempt to answer these questions, look at this http://sprunge.us/hMBS tell me if you know about TeX how to fit the summary of kinds table all on one page? < 1282871982 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Possibly with some on the right?) < 1282874134 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282874320 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282875291 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282875647 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282876004 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, maybe someone here would be able to answer this for me < 1282876025 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was reading about bz2, and i'm a little puzzled as to the point of the runa/runb thing in the run length encoding < 1282876043 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, i'm unsure what would make it more effective than some simpler method of encoding the length < 1282876331 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1282876625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1282876648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that h.264 royalty-free license for certain works is now permanent. < 1282876653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck. We're stuck. < 1282876662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: the encoding is actually just binary < 1282876673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modified such that redundant entries like 00001 are impossible < 1282878979 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runb place values are multiplied by 2, though < 1282878995 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the part i don't really understand < 1282879010 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it gives you a chance to save a bit or something, but i don't see why it is worth it < 1282879620 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282880680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1282881657 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc < 1282881671 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282886548 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282888203 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282888451 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282888459 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282889808 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282892184 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there was a solution to the halting problem, what mathematical questions would remain unsolved? < 1282892213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Riemann Hypothesis might, if any counterexamples were irrational numbers < 1282892243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think a result that "Either the Riemann Hypothesis is true, or all counterexamples are irrational" is still interesting somehow < 1282892250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else? < 1282893609 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282893920 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1282894588 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1282895642 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282895686 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282895999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1282896000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1282897759 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the halting problem can be solved, doesn't that imply that the goedel stuff would have been disproven as well? < 1282898487 0 :relet!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282899946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any countable infinite named subset of the reals that contains all rational numbers and some irrational numbers? < 1282900094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algebraic numbers? < 1282900242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the computable numbers, I guess. < 1282900366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when we say that no computable number falsifies the Riemann hypothesis < 1282900371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that interesting, or boring? < 1282900475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not possible for a non-definable number to be a counterexample to anything, is it? < 1282900555 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads the wikipedia article and mehs
< 1282900716 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, there is < 1282900727 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of all rationals and all rational multiples of pi < 1282900787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or the other ones suggested, but I like my answer since it's easier to count) < 1282900819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "named" in the sense of having a well-known name, is it? < 1282900843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that a "named set" is a very well-defined thing. < 1282900856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should sleep < 1282900859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can always give it a name, after all.) < 1282900930 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it the pitional numbers < 1282900971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Coppros, often denoted by ℂ℘. < 1282900998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pitiful numbers" is a good candidate too. < 1282901175 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1282902501 0 :Killerkid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282902600 0 :Killerkid!~l1am9111@86.176.44.101 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282903628 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1282903651 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282906472 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1282909481 0 :cheater00!~cheater@p5B217D75.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282909661 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1282909830 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282909848 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1282911863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282912466 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282912663 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1282912895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:56:24 If there was a solution to the halting problem, what mathematical questions would remain unsolved? < 1282912898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:56:53 The Riemann Hypothesis might, if any counterexamples were irrational numbers < 1282912926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the riemann hypothesis is equivalent to a statement about the distribution of prime numbers < 1282912979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you could solve halting problems in a recursive manner, the riemann hypothesis would be solved < 1282913018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually you may not even need the recursion < 1282913177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/arithmetic-hierarchy-and-pnp/ is where i saw the equivalent statement discussed < 1282913282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and essentially it's an equivalent question, too, because the arithmetic hierarchy can be formulated using halting problems) < 1282913403 0 :cheater!~damian@93.190.71.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282913405 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiii < 1282913420 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to see some ugly code < 1282913428 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/ynf5pZaj < 1282913459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetical_hierarchy#Relation_to_Turing_machines < 1282913514 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how do you like my seds < 1282913550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs away screaming
< 1282913586 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sits down and smokes a pipe.
< 1282913674 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282913698 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282913892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282913895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, how do you smoke a | ? < 1282913921 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I can only conclude that you are playing dumb. < 1282913929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I was making a pun < 1282913934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, that's some ugly code/ < 1282913949 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION smokes a bracket
< 1282913954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, considering the context of shell script and "* cheater sits down and smokes a pipe." I felt it wasn't that far-fetched < 1282913963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to joke about | < 1282914560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just be _glad_ a certain person isn't here to snark about it < 1282914601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you makes puns like that too < 1282914639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yeah, but you EXPECT oerjan to start punning. < 1282914670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and why am I not allowed to do it? < 1282914696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you're not oerjan! < 1282914730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why does not being oerjan imply that you aren't allowed to make puns? < 1282914746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course you're allowed. color blind people are allowed to paint, too < 1282914772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't aware that ducks were valid HTML. < 1282914787 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what person < 1282914843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_someone_ who tends to pick on everything Vorpal does < 1282914854 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who < 1282914868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the set of people allowed to make puns that bad is {oerjan, DMM}. < 1282914995 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282915009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 314th maths nerd! < 1282915093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's valid HTML. < 1282915121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ducks must be included in every standard. < 1282915140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they're probably already in the CL standard. < 1282915230 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do you still want to kill me? < 1282915230 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! < 1282915236 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1282915236 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1282915254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl < 1282915254 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) < 1282915269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how about now? < 1282915271 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: mr president, would you be prepared, and that opinion is in line with the treaty. it was indeed a pleasure for me, as a family, if there is no proof of their maturity, their composure and their ability to create a european stock exchange which will generate new jobs. < 1282915370 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: lolcats < 1282915371 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: mr president, the rapporteur and the committee on budgetary control, thanks in particular to welcome and briefly debate last september. the officials of the european union's number one priority and also the honourable member of your group and party. at most, mr president-in-office of the council, i am convinced that cohesion is not just excessive but is in reality a plan for the court of first instance. < 1282915379 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1282915416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1282915416 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl* ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1282915421 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style c64 < 1282915422 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) < 1282915430 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: cake < 1282915430 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: run ( starts at line-number 500) will disable the switching of character memory can be achieved by using this line should only be compared ( or more programs in memory until you had in mind that the interrupt register. < 1282915439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit boring style, the formatting is badly. < 1282915444 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1282915453 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gonna be help for helping newbies with code < 1282915466 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: !recursion < 1282915466 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: p=192 sets the alarm access bit. the duration above. then jsr chrgot. another color control can set all of the keyboard < 1282915481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: So how about them SID registers, are they read-write or write-only? < 1282915481 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 1) set the corresponding interrupt will occur. the high-pass output. the string: filename) note space here. go back to ascii text of the screen background. < 1282915486 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: kernel programming < 1282915486 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: 3. this is used to count much longer intervals. cia 1 56320-56335 in-between commands ( like in multi-color character mode, pairs of pixels instead of using one of the statement cr=peek(55296)and15. this allows a user written machine language < 1282915493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me or is Comments on a Postcard completely broken? < 1282915556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems brokened here too. < 1282915606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Phantom_Hoover -----###
< 1282915619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why? < 1282915627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it *meant* to be broken? < 1282915630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1282915667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...But they referred to it in today's SRoMG, with every indication that there was something there... < 1282915679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, SRoMG? < 1282915692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that. i don't think that was the same postcard :D < 1282915698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, read Mezzacotta's stuff. < 1282915725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh, clever. < 1282915729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I just asked what it stands for < 1282915731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The annotations are the whole thing. < 1282915742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it was < 1282915819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :square root of minus garfield < 1282915840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1282915848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes the cat is back in iwc
< 1282915865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah noticed it too < 1282915887 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and it has been pretty obvious for some time that we have been heading for a new paradox. < 1282915892 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282915893 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E4F5C.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282916090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it's been explicit for ages... < 1282916107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever since Fireballs got assigned, at least. < 1282916135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes that is what I said, "some time" is pretty vague and intentionally so < 1282916178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently the San Dimas time is running strangely. < 1282916191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that Adam and Jamie blew up the time stream ages ago. < 1282916245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, when time travel is involved, does your last line really make any sense? < 1282916256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, hence "San Dimas". < 1282916261 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1282916267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per TV Tropes. < 1282916274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :San Dimas? *googles* < 1282916315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it seems to be a town in US < 1282916333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm all confused < 1282916337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, check the TV Tropes entry for "San Dimas Time". < 1282916353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a tvtrope, he said. those are rather creatively named. < 1282916368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I learnt how to avoid clicking links so... < 1282916388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous last words < 1282916446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, read it < 1282916450 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1282916464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION performs a tabectomy.
< 1282916474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that thing always annoyed me in movies < 1282916502 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, meh. I get around it by assuming a second time dimension. < 1282916505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :san dimas time that is < 1282916517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm that works I guess < 1282916537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what if you somehow manages to travel in that as well? < 1282916545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make one confusing movie < 1282916570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've thought about that, but I'm eating a cake so can't type too quickly. < 1282916584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could just add a third one < 1282916607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1282916619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at some point that just gets too silly < 1282916724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why I assume that the second time dimension is impossible to travel in. < 1282916808 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1282916851 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282916868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that, when travelled in, has the properties typically associated with more "realistic" time travel. < 1282916884 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282916911 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E4F5C.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282917177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Would you move in the second time dimension when you are not traveling in the first? < 1282917217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't particularly think it matters. < 1282917233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282917248 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the only meaningful change in the system comes about when time travel is taking place. < 1282917408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, this also solves the grand father paradox I think < 1282917439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it would be done at a different place in the second timeline < 1282917444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err time dimension < 1282917557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also solves the similar "had no reason to go back once the change is made"-paradox < 1282917640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though you could make both still apply by making it so that time travellers are "rebased" (in the DVCS sense) to the current time line when traveling. Though, not sure if it solves the primary problem any longer then < 1282919362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, "concolic"; what an awesome new word-coinage. (It's from "concrete" and "symbolic", in the context of automated exhaustive testing; for some reason there was a random theory guy included in the summer student seminar session which otherwise was mostly about speech stuff.) < 1282919494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282919868 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if I was oerjan I would make a pun about symbolic cement here. < 1282920158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, you are not, and are therefore contractually prohibited from making such a pun. < 1282920168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I didn't sign anything though < 1282920187 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays you can get into a contract simply by sneezing in the wrong place. < 1282920245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a nagging feeling that was a reference to something that I don't quite remember < 1282920366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sneezing part wasn't a specific reference to anything, but there has certainly been some nonsense about a contract being established in ridiculous ways. Can't remember a specific example offhand. < 1282920395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm... hhgtg? < 1282920401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one of the follow up books rather < 1282920404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure which < 1282920429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watching movie about kriket (sp?) < 1282920517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the Jatravartids of Viltvodle VI, who believe the Universe was sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arkleseizure, and who fear the Coming of the Great White Handkerchief. < 1282920524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about the only sneezing-related thing I recall. < 1282920651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no I meant the contract part < 1282920661 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Hmm. < 1282920674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I definitely think there is an example of that in HHGTG < 1282920679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of real-life things there, but I wouldn't rule out related bits in the Book. < 1282920740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, out of curiosity, what was the nationality of "Jatravartid of Viltvodle VI" < 1282920760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err s/d /ds / < 1282920808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean, nationality? They're "the Jatravartid people of Viltvodle VI", no more is told to us. < 1282920831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sure that is "real-life"+ < 1282920834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/ < 1282920865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnaah, no, I mean I was thinking of real-life things w.r.t. the contract thing. < 1282920869 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1282920889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something EULA- or maybe website-terms-of-service-related, I think. < 1282920893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't remember "Jatravartids of Viltvodle VI" from hhgtg though the name *sounds* like it could be from there < 1282920914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not very prominently featured. < 1282920922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1282920947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in two paragraphs of the introduction of The Restaurant at the End of the Universe. < 1282920961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1282920989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. Many races believe that it was created by some sort of God, though the Jatravartid --" < 1282921031 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it moves on from the Great Green Arkleseizure theory to other attempts of finding the Answer (and the Question). < 1282921091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used "Arkleseizure" as the Bluetooth name of the N-Gage. < 1282921495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1282921592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was back when I had a Guide-inspired naming scheme overall. < 1282921805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1282922507 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282922709 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1282922718 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing like a cold drink < 1282922734 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would just like to inform you that there is so much ice in my glass that it sticks like 2 cm out < 1282923058 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1282923081 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in greece you can become legally married by going around a table once < 1282923113 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if there's a goat on said table? < 1282923502 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you go around the table with the woman < 1282923507 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd have to lead a goat around a table < 1282923515 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm afraid goats are more stubborn than to allow that < 1282923791 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1282924004 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-45-85.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1282926686 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-210.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282926934 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1282927844 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1282930026 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1282931387 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1282932881 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282932913 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B217D75.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282934722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1282934754 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1282935901 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B217D75.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282936125 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pawns. < 1282937419 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282937459 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282937661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282938081 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1282938148 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1282939462 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1282939619 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282939826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr Smith. < 1282939977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1282940349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1282940365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282941055 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1282941318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1282941337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282941838 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282942439 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B217D75.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282943220 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have a space sim to recommend? < 1282943311 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Operation Space Station < 1282943322 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I've never actually played it < 1282943355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no such THING < 1282943366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good old (emphasis on old now) Microsoft Space Simulator?-) < 1282943373 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's possible < 1282943373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, incidentally, I've come to a conclusion regarding the monad design pattern. < 1282943415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's effectively the same as assigning a design pattern to if constructs. < 1282943525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also that freeware thing, what'sitcalled, Orbiter? Don't know anything 'bout it. < 1282943534 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Interesting. I would say such design patterns do exist, they're just very simple and might be better called "implementation patterns". I came to a, well, different thought. It seems to me that there ought to be any number of very bizarre monads one could devise. < 1282943541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it's Windows-only. < 1282943582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might well be. Well, Space Simulator will run in DOS too. < 1282943878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yes, there are. < 1282943892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it's absurd to confine them to a single design pattern. < 1282943925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also why we need form an Esoteric Task Force for Stupid Monad Tricks. < 1282943970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes < 1282943976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any really silly monads, though < 1282943979 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1282943992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Feather probably forms a monad, but only because everything like that does < 1282943993 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Identity! < 1282944001 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPLAIN FEATHER ALREADY < 1282944015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENOTIMPLEMENTED < 1282944025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's difficult... < 1282944035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day I may understand it myself < 1282944036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The general concept? < 1282944039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I'll be able to explain it < 1282944051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general concept is that of retroactive changes as the main form of doing anything < 1282944071 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so assigning a variable retroactively changes it etc.? < 1282944086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "assign" isn't the right word, really < 1282944163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The equivalent? < 1282944210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic operation is retroactively-become, but it tends to lead to infinite loops unless guarded very carefully < 1282944332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1282944420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a retroactive change rewinds time to when the thing happened, then changes the state to make the change < 1282944422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then runs from there < 1282944431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1282944436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to retroactively change things such that the change never happens, in order to avoid a loop < 1282944441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of the opposite of how time travel normally works < 1282944466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1282944470 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would imagine, if the contents of the variable X ever determines whether "X retroactively-becomes ..." is executed, a loop occurs, or rather, you have to resolve some kind of nasty fixed point thing. < 1282944513 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nasty because, uh, the condition I stated is generally undecidable. < 1282944524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: nah, if there's any issue at all, you just get an infinite loop < 1282944544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you set a variable to its current value with primitives, you /always/ get an infinite loop < 1282944549 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would presumably need to code if (¬changed) retbecom < 1282944552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1282944563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is then to determine the value of changed < 1282944575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why things are done in a vaguely OO style < 1282944583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sane" retroactive changes are the addition of a method < 1282944592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can check to see if the method exists or not first < 1282944597 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps I am jumping ahead to trying to statically analyze this beast. Please excuse me. < 1282944615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if you figure out how Feather works, please let me know < 1282944634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm I'm trying to get started < 1282944639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what bit are you stuck at? < 1282944647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see, some of the other things that can retroactively change are the rules of the language itself < 1282944667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no conceputal problem here, but I'm having problems actually implementing it < 1282944676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everything is defined in terms of everything else < 1282944701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a similar task to trying to write a Smalltalk VM in something other than Smalltalk < 1282944709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which must have been accomplished once, I suppose < 1282944716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but which is kind-of difficult < 1282944719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redefining the language seems... Lispy. < 1282944753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Feather could be a great tool to wave at Lisp advocates who claim every other lang's just a special case of theirs < 1282944755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it actually works < 1282944769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1282944841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would keeping tonnes of continuations work? < 1282944860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how I plan to implement it, yes < 1282944863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems the obvious way < 1282944925 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So CPS the code? < 1282944987 0 :whtspc!~chatzilla@dhcp-077-249-039-181.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1282944992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to use a higher-level lang that does CPS for me < 1282945018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be possible to statically analyse the source to work out exactly which continuations you need? < 1282945021 0 :whtspc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1282945033 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than keeping loads and loads of them. < 1282945036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahahahahahaha < 1282945054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not *that* absurd! < 1282945075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Provided you only allow retbecomes to predefined points. < 1282945082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :statically analysing Feather is like trying to statically analyse something like SMITH < 1282945118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, s/statically analyse/remember where the damn retbecomes pointed/ < 1282945203 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@80-123-45-30.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1282945339 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282945351 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1282945645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, OK, so how is your implementation stuff at the moment? < 1282945666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abandoned as usual < 1282945669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've failed twice so far < 1282945671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may try again some time < 1282945697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ideas do you have, then? < 1282945765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, it's hard to explain < 1282945785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For implementation? < 1282945870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Offhand, I would go for the interpreter calling a continuation with a function that transforms the environment appropriately. < 1282946038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you've probably exploded your brain more than me over thiss. < 1282946181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficulty is that the interpreter must be written in Feather, in case you retroactively modify the interpreter that the interpreter was written in to make it dump source code < 1282946200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, the turtles-all-the-way-down regress this apparently causes is not the hardest-to-resolve part of things < 1282946231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1282946282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What is? < 1282946295 0 :iGO!iGO@62.169.118.238.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1282946309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not go < 1282946324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Feather is implementable? < 1282946331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when I retroactively print something? < 1282946334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that was always the point. < 1282946344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, magic or curses. < 1282946356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick one. < 1282946559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I/O is another issue < 1282946572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at any point in the execution, though, you can determine what the program has outputted so far < 1282946580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suppose it's just a case of erasing output from the screen when you backtrack < 1282946635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it be possible to build more structured time control structures than whatever the primitive is? Similar to building structured flow control from gotos or continuations? < 1282946649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What high-level structures would make sense? < 1282946670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, these things are all brainsploding territory. < 1282946682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there certainly are saner primitives possible < 1282946692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, nonprimitives < 1282946706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The way you've descibed it, Feather sounds trivially implementable < 1282946718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, you could retroactively change a value into a function that acts exactly like that value until the point of the retroactive assignment, and then starts acting like a different value < 1282946722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's close to traditional assignment < 1282946723 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, the self-modification of the interpreter, though. < 1282946734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the issue is the object-oriented structure < 1282946757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the implementation coming before or after the spec? < 1282946771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even something really simple like comparing two atoms for equality (where "atom" = "object whose only purpose is to be compared to other atoms for equality") leads to an infinite regress with obvious implementations < 1282946781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they send each other messages which are other atoms < 1282946787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: being codeveloped < 1282946799 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I was behind. Just got back to my desk. < 1282946807 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some subset of Feather is trivially implementable. < 1282946811 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh. < 1282946812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1282946817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that lambda calculus is a subset of Feather < 1282946825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(easy way to make it TC, among other things) < 1282946832 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some subset with retroactive something. < 1282946842 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time you change something, restart the program, with that change. < 1282946847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1282946874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I foresee two major problems; getting started (the one I'm getting hung up on), and writing a standard library that's actually useful < 1282946919 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what's the current worst thing? < 1282946932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparing two atoms < 1282946948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can work around it by having every object have a method that states whether it's a particular atom or not < 1282946964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blagh, OO. < 1282946972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why'd you need to spoil it like that? < 1282946992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, one particular special atom that's treated differently in order to break the infinite dependency loop < 1282947027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what do you have against OO? < 1282947031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, we need more OO esolangs < 1282947041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so, you'd rather I not like Smalltalk? < 1282947048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sort of structure is needed in Feather to not degenerate < 1282947055 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, it just seems... messy. < 1282947058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Smalltalk is the main inspiration for Feather, actually < 1282947065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1282947066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1282947076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about "why do we need objects separate from classes" < 1282947126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason is because of inheritance; you want to modify methods in a class and all its subclasses, but objects shouldn't work like that < 1282947143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I noticed that the problem doesn't exist if you modify a prototype object before any subclassing or object creation is used < 1282947146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the idea snowballed from there < 1282947401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm local root exploit on <2.6.36-rc1 < 1282947414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVE not yet published but googling it turns up details < 1282947422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pre-reserved number that is < 1282947449 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B217D75.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282947451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure I see that problem. "You want to modify methods"? < 1282947469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it isn't quite that simple < 1282947477 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delegation-based OO doesn't seem to have a problem with that... assuming it's what I think it is, which I guess it isn't < 1282947479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucid seems vurnable. < 1282947481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember the details any more < 1282947491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: delegation is an alternative solution to the same problem < 1282947501 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, that might shed light on it < 1282947501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, perhaps < 1282947520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not going to test it though, the effects seems pretty severe if it only works partly (SLUB state completely fucked up) < 1282947521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local root exploits tend to be irrelevant on your own personal computer, though < 1282947603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are relevant for Normish though, I think < 1282947612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es < 1282947614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es < 1282947616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes < 1282947618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well a patch is released, I seem to have a patched version according to numbers < 1282947628 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1282947630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got that upgrade yesterday iirc < 1282947640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and occasionally when you use user accounts for sandboxing < 1282947647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so for details google for CVE-2010-2959 < 1282947656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes you assume I want details? < 1282947669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why wouldn't you < 1282947684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not a subject I particularly care about? < 1282947704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local root exploits are vaguely interesting, but I'm not in the sort of sysadmin where it would be important to care < 1282947713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sort of sysadmin position < 1282947736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the details of a /specific/ local root exploit are merely of academic interest, unless you plan to patch or exploit it < 1282947874 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282947881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here know how to do a while loop in TCL? < 1282947886 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1282947899 0 :iGO!iGO@62.169.118.238.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1282947916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could implement it with a for loop (not a foreach loop though) < 1282947922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that helps < 1282947930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know how to do those either < 1282947934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know TCL syntax < 1282947941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCL isn't an esolang? < 1282947941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking in case there's someone here who does < 1282947943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1282947945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah maybe learnt that before starting coding in tcl? < 1282947948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be very popular < 1282947951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pikhq is a tcl fan iirc < 1282947964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I want to do something in TCL, and don't know hoe < 1282947966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*how < 1282947974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, try to catch him then < 1282947977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know tcl < 1282947977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, I'm asking on the basis that quite possibly there's someone here who /does/ know how < 1282947995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just commenting that in general while loop can be implemented in terms of a for loop < 1282948010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where /is/ alise? < 1282948033 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have the unit finally taken their revenge? < 1282948040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yo. < 1282948047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reasonably proficient in Tcl. < 1282948055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the easiest way to write an infinite loop? < 1282948063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while 1 { ... } < 1282948068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, thanks < 1282948071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try that < 1282948094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, Tcl's syntax & semantics are shockingly simple. < 1282948097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man n Tcl < 1282948100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. Whole thing. < 1282948115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually have TCL installed < 1282948120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort-of amazing that programs run at all, given that < 1282948148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TclCmd/Tcl.htm < 1282948178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1282948233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems to use the Underload approach to blocks < 1282948301 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: By talking about Feather and infinite loops in Tcl, you seem to have given me an idea for yet another stupid language. < 1282948309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it < 1282948322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I apologise for taking several minutes to recall the name of SMETANA recently < 1282948364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm wondering if relative Smetana would be TC < 1282948373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Swap the step after this one with the step 5 steps before this one." < 1282948379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Go to the step 8 steps after this one." < 1282948380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels like learning group theory
< 1282948562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, comment. < 1282948562 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 0): < 1282948569 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well. lament proved it is FSA-complete, meaning that inifnite SMETANA programs, with a suitable inital pattern, should be CA-complete. I think. < 1282948569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1282948569 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64* ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1282948571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a strange smiley < 1282948592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes, and I know what a bad definitional situation that is from personal experience < 1282948595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sad man with a double chin! < 1282948616 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes and you have my condolences. < 1282948637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, explain. < 1282948641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, FSA-complete isn't a fungot invention? < 1282948642 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the interrupt driven keyboard-scanning routine jumps through a modem and a third, in order ( see the effect of having their normal effect on it. the < 1282948644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blinks
< 1282948648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aargh, I don't want to go through this again < 1282948663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, "turing-complete" for infinite starting conditions is badly designed < 1282948673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I ended up in a heated email debate about the definition with Vaughan Pratt ages ago < 1282948696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ended abruptly when the list moderator went on holiday, and never restarted < 1282948710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do go on. < 1282948715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the best-timed holidays ever < 1282948720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't really more to say < 1282948806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION awkwardly holds his computer
< 1282948899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldnt attemt to leave eardrops in and use the computer at the same time < 1282949103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, huh? < 1282949149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to leave my head tilted for s few min < 1282949190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotate your screen by 30 degrees < 1282949219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the whole computer rotated 90 < 1282949225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm done now, so < 1282949231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, learn to read sideways? < 1282949329 0 :Killerkid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1282949562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, am I connected? < 1282949562 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ciout 60893, 65448 ( decimal). the following < 1282949568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1282949572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1282949572 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64* ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1282949579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ff7 < 1282949579 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ff7 (Full script of the game Final Fantasy VII) < 1282949594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, is your father a submariner? < 1282949594 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: humans only look at the inn? and what she meant. i wouldn't know because i don't know either, man. < 1282950068 0 :Killerkid!~l1am9111@host86-176-44-101.range86-176.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282950271 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@108.120.156.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282950275 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unexpected move = AWESOME FUN TIMES < 1282950286 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282950298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, explain! < 1282950339 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came home to find my electricity had shorted and they needed to tear apart my walls to find out why. < 1282950342 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I said "wtf" < 1282950356 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they said "Uhhh, how about we put you in this much bigger apartment for the same price?" < 1282950360 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I said "... oh fine." < 1282950399 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME < 1282950403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION continues to wonder wtf expect programs (written in TCL) run, given that TCL isn't installed
< 1282950421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I take it you rent your apartment? < 1282950431 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I didn't, it wouldn't be an apartment. < 1282950514 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, arguably. Is condominium a subclass of apartment, or distinct? < 1282950576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad owns an apartment... < 1282950700 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1282950737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what would it be? < 1282950745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did you see my comment about the riemann hypothesis in the logs? < 1282950755 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no < 1282950756 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Presumably a condo. < 1282950767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a TwoDucks interpreter can solve the Reimann Hypothesis? < 1282950786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, see it now < 1282950796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically there is a known statement about natural number sums which it is equivalent too, and which can be rephrased as a halting problem < 1282950809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's in that lipton blog article) < 1282950835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the halting problem rephrasing, but that's pretty obvious) < 1282950893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: presumably? at least banana scheme and brainhype can, using only one level up < 1282950936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(their computation models are pretty much equivalent to the arithmetic hierarchy, iiuc) < 1282950950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well, per my TwoDucks Turing oracle... < 1282950976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1282951094 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.251.102 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282951132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1282951134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bearded apostrophe-- < 1282951154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1282951161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--and he tumbles out of the unit, landing headfirst on something, knowing not what. < 1282951217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the unicode character for bearded apostrophe? < 1282951225 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1282951262 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282951345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x'> < 1282951384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worship Xom! Be Xom's plaything! < 1282951424 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I refuse! < 1282951437 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a BORING thign < 1282951439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1282951532 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would guess tcl is statically linked into expect? < 1282951640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I think so. < 1282951647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Xom? < 1282951666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So -- barring further incident, it appears that the unit have released me; like from a cannon, not a door. < 1282951674 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hurray! < 1282951710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An insane god. Cares not for worshippers, but to be entertained < 1282951719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Of course the cannon is catapulting me on a collision course with the nation of Standardised Schools Teaching Standardised Curricula. < 1282951738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such is (my) life. < 1282951777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'll have to go to school? < 1282951820 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1282951873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wish to speak in "normal English" (pshaw), yes; probably the latest in a long stream of Not Caring About The Law-related incidents perpetrated by the unit, but there you go. < 1282951901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually they're sending me to some section of it, not the main bit; you know, because I'm all Sensitive and Special Needs now. < 1282951907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever. < 1282952007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: seems likelyh < 1282952011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: glad you're here < 1282952014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was worried about you < 1282952048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because I wasn't here for a day or two? < 1282952059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, when I'd have expected you to be < 1282952070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not so much the absence as the inconsistency < 1282952072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; long story and all that. < 1282952080 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282952112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone use Epiphany? It's being stupid < 1282952114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stupid. < 1282952123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the browser/ < 1282952125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1282952144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use a locked-down Firefox, and a less locked-down Epiphany) < 1282952189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome! < 1282952190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't suppose you know how to tell it to use certain Xft settings? It appears that GNOME's settings don't affect the WebKit renderer. I may be forced to create an /etc/fonts/local.conf. < 1282952193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random Internet disconnect! < 1282952208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm trying out using no hinting whatsoever. I'm so totally RADICAL.) < 1282952211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh, I've never tried to customise it beyond hiding and showing toolbars < 1282952226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm even less like AnMaster than you are in that respect < 1282952231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on that note, why doesn't %{width=NUMCHARS} at the end of a bookmark URL that you've put as an input box toolbar thing work? < 1282952234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the manual says it should < 1282952247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't really customising Epiphany, just getting Epiphany to listen to my font settings < 1282952254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose years of using whatever computer happens to be available is a hard habit to break < 1282952268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get used to default settings for a wide range of systems and programs < 1282952282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, can you assign a shortcut key to those bookmarks? all I want is a google search box :P < 1282952303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1282952318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's to stop you memorising URLs, though? < 1282952329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually doing a search is rather unreliable... < 1282952343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Eh? < 1282952356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you misinterpreted me, or is this the weirdest way of expressing the opinion "I don't like search" ever? < 1282952358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, normally when I want to visit a website, I just go there directly < 1282952370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes ... search is generally used when you don't know what website you wish to visit. < 1282952384 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or when the site you wish to visit, is a search engine. < 1282952386 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Om. < 1282952389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you visit a website without knowing it was there? < 1282952405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are you for real? < 1282952408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have no idea how accurate it was < 1282952411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what it was like < 1282952426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know you're playing dumb to prove a point, but let's just say we've already covered your opinion on search in depth and I have, like everyone else, disregarded it as one to adopt myself? < 1282952427 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That process used to be called "surfing the net"... < 1282952443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I suppose < 1282952447 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an outmoded paradigm. < 1282952447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:32:44 hmm, now I'm wondering if relative Smetana would be TC < 1282952447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:32:53 "Swap the step after this one with the step 5 steps before this one." < 1282952447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never seems to lead to useful results, though < 1282952456 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you receive links from your friends on Facewank. < 1282952478 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so totally caught in 1996. < 1282952487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I do occasionally use Google to look up backlinks for a website < 1282952491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see what it is before visiting it < 1282952493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't say Facebook, we'll get /another/ ais523 rant! < 1282952498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're rare but usually deadly. < 1282952502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1282952502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: almost certainly i think, i already essentially established smetana with sort-of-infinite-setup is TC < 1282952503 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FACEBOOK < 1282952513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be a different situation, though < 1282952514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION winces in preparation
< 1282952530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using k*n+l patterns for labels) < 1282952570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's somewhere in the old esoteric mailing list archive as Smetana+1) < 1282952577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... < 1282952577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION crosses ais523 off his "sane people" list.
< 1282952601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why was I even on there in the first place? < 1282952622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but i guess that would require you to ... search ... for it *MWAHAHAHA* < 1282952625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you seemed sane... < 1282952651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I say I don't use Facebook for the same reason Knuth doesn't use email, would that be considered a rant? < 1282952684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he's fairly sane, just a lunati < 1282952686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lunatic < 1282952698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth doesn't use email to stop the irritating hordes descending, right? < 1282952700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ESR introduced me to Knuth's secretary via email, btw) < 1282952717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, I tend to avoid all guaranteed instant methods of communication < 1282952729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BOO < 1282952729 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1282952730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who wants to communicate with me has to put up with a potentially random time delay < 1282952733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guaranteed instant* < 1282952739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, THIS IS GUARANTEED INSTANT!!! BOO! < 1282952744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not always online < 1282952766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you can just avoid emails from people you don't like... < 1282952767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why people tolerate mobile phones at all? < 1282952772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yep < 1282952773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they can still send you letters! < 1282952773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC, too < 1282952782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although more often I avoid them based on subject matter rather than author < 1282952794 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Libertine has a !! ligature... < 1282952805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But it is not as legible at low DPIs as Bitstream Charter! < 1282952809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TYPEFACE WAR. < 1282952809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could disable Facebook Chat < 1282952826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: could you also disable all the other features of Facebook? < 1282952832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, come on, even /I/ think Facebook is an abomination < 1282952835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I imagine Facebook Chat requires Flash or at least JS, anyway) < 1282952840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is anything but Facebook Chat guaranteed instant? < 1282952842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facebook requires JS, more or less < 1282952856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the rest of Facebook is parasitic, anti-social bullshit that nobody should care about or listen to. < 1282952876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: mobile phones are the usual case < 1282952886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of social pressure for people with a mobile to leave it on always, and answer it whenever called < 1282952888 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, any part of Facebook < 1282952902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it isn't, it's obnoxious for other reasons < 1282952936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rgrn filling up with Fishville spam is obnoxious enough < 1282952942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that isn't really Facebook's fault < 1282952959 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1282952977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've suddenly been inspired to read Facebook's ToS < 1282952978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * Sgeo awkwardly holds his computer Maybe I shouldnt attemt to leave eardrops in and use the computer at the same time I have to leave my head tilted for s few min < 1282953004 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1282953004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo! < 1282953007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh HackEgo! < 1282953009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1282953011 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha? Why would a usenet group and Facebook stuff be connected? < 1282953017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1282953022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: spammers. < 1282953029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1282953029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spammers and usenet are always connected < 1282953030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, section 1 says "Your privacy is very important to us." < 1282953033 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1282953033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi < 1282953035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: HAHAHAHA < 1282953046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I agreed to that agreement, then I'd be agreeing that Facebook thinks my privacy is very important to them < 1282953050 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1282953055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be a lie. < 1282953058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats HackEgo -----###
< 1282953064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot legally agree to it unless you're deluded! < 1282953066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: exactly, thus I can't agree to the agreement < 1282953078 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1282953079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can, it'd just be illegal < 1282953080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, I can; EULAs and website TOSes are unenforceable in the UK) < 1282953082 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1282953087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, assuming that TOSes worked < 1282953091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they of course don't < 1282953097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were ruled unenforceable by the Office of Fair Trading on the basis that nobody reads them anyway < 1282953107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're designed to not be read in many cases < 1282953129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, the "I Agree" button or whatever isn't legally binding because nobody can seriously believe you're telling the truth < 1282953134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /love/ this line of reasoning < 1282953157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which my bug is fixed by the process of "wait two years, note that it doesn't happen any more": bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21156 < 1282953182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last sentence of 2.1 in Facebook's TOS is incredible, btw < 1282953193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the bit just before the comma < 1282953198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it? < 1282953224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos ("IP content"), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook ("IP License"). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless < 1282953225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it. < 1282953266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me not to put my proprietary source code on Facebook < 1282953272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you post something, we can do anything with it." < 1282953278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1282953278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (1) why do you have proprietary source code? < 1282953284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) why the hell would you let it anywhere near Facebook? < 1282953284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the start of 2.2 is funny for a different reason: "When you delete IP content, it is deleted in a manner similar to emptying the recycle bin on a computer." < 1282953286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it legal to post GPLed code on Facebook then? < 1282953290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1282953292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Indeed < 1282953295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do answer (1) < 1282953295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you own the copyright, I think < 1282953300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ais523 said < 1282953322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the GPL adds required limitations on sublicensing, and the Facebook license there doesn't contain them < 1282953326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, I'm going to go and bring my recycling bin inside then tip it onto my computer < 1282953332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because I feel like making a bit of money in Second Life? < 1282953334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus giving me a visual analogy to explain how deleting content on Facebook works < 1282953338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you can't even post someone else's BSD3 (or maybe even BSD2?) code on Facebook < 1282953360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BSD2 === BSD3 in all sane countries < 1282953365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : they were ruled unenforceable by the Office of Fair Trading on the basis that nobody reads them anyway <-- wait someone actually used sanity to interpret law? < 1282953367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference? < 1282953369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's just a don't-use-my-name-if-I-don't-let-you clause) < 1282953378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is very redundant) < 1282953387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it even applies in almost all insane ones < 1282953393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always interpret 3 as a "this license is not a license to use my name in advertising" < 1282953396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the places were it doesn't don't have internet :P < 1282953410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically all it does is to give you an "I explicitly didn't say that..." defence if someone tries < 1282953410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noone should ever use sanity to interpret nomic law < 1282953440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third clause is worthwhile, because if the situation ever comes up, it makes life a bit easier for your lawyers < 1282953457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if KDE is any good these days? < 1282953467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I haven't tried it for a while < 1282953475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on to 4.5 by now < 1282953478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE4 has become rather more stable with each version < 1282953485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently Konqueror is better < 1282953488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a web browser < 1282953492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I can't really believe < 1282953524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.12 "You will not facilitate or encourage any violations of this Statement." < 1282953534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, it's easier to imagine that Konqueror is better now than it used to be < 1282953543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if only that didn't have a capital S, it would be truly great