< 1280620803 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Uhhh, that's exactly what I thought you meant :P < 1280620860 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1280620870 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thanks for getting me past that first hurdle < 1280620881 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280620887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Cyriak <3 < 1280621078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: link me to that teddynom thing < 1280621234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/teddynom.gif < 1280621245 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280621257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has it bookmarked < 1280621297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i just typed codu and selected from the suggestions menu :D < 1280621472 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt hackiki: i think it should be as a wiki on the side < 1280621478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been stepping through the Ubuntu install then forgetting about it for like hours now. < 1280621484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Expert install) < 1280621487 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a bit too dangerous, we could consider using jsmips < 1280621495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not dangerous. < 1280621503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280621506 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the server runs freebsd then you can jail it < 1280621572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is there no-one sane in this channel? < 1280621579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have slight doubts about AnMaster < 1280621597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, no. < 1280621614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is just "not sane" not "insane" < 1280621623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought AnMaster was excessively sane < 1280621627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as its own form of insanityt < 1280621629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*insanity < 1280621649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there _could_ be someone sane among the people who never speak, i guess < 1280621751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you seen AnMaster's optimisation options? < 1280621761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's so sane crossed into the region of unsane < 1280621764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like insane but boring! < 1280621809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why did i not see Phantom_Hoover left just before i quoted him < 1280621819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S IMPOLITE, YOU RASCAL < 1280621851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since i'm pretty sure he doesn't read the logs. unless my previous hints have gotten through to him. < 1280622013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe he meant if you've checked from DSM you can't be sane <-- clearly anyone who checks stuff in the DSM has OCD at least < 1280622071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hypochondria < 1280622115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, do hypochondriacs usually go for _mental_ diseases? < 1280622120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1280622141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, frequently. obviously not usually.) < 1280622228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Because we need someone sane to vet our Lisp OS ideas. < 1280622246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp is just an easy isomorphism to combinatory logic with mutation, anyhow. < 1280622290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We so totally don't, anyway. < 1280622293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insanity sucks. < 1280622312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, you said _sane_. never mind. < 1280622370 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanity is kinda good < 1280622380 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically you need to stick within reasonable limits < 1280622385 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can go loose < 1280622396 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's kinda like sanely insane < 1280622429 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sane enough to reach levels of insanity which top pure insanity < 1280622440 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this DOES kinda make sense if you think about it < 1280622448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1280622449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sanity sucks. < 1280622455 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare: < 1280622473 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"those guys run so fast and coordinated tied together, it's insane" < 1280622475 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :versus < 1280622490 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"those guys keep getting tangled up and jerking each other around with the rope, it's insane" < 1280622505 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i personally believe the former to be better < 1280622521 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also consider nukes < 1280622528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knew he should have listened to the voices telling him to drop the subject < 1280622552 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there was no sanity in building the nukes, there would be no working nukes < 1280622569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ... that's a bad thing? < 1280622600 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the "firepower" is a higher level of insane than if you were to just let people be loose and uncoordinated < 1280622610 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quite like organised sanity < 1280622613 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1280622617 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :organised insanity < 1280622633 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another example: forming a huge huge mob < 1280622643 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just swarming everywhere < 1280622689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't tell why you'd use nukes as an example. < 1280622712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mobs suck too < 1280622745 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a nuke demonstrates the point of "organised insanity" in that the power of a nuke is INSANE < 1280622762 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by "mob" i mean a group of people gathered together < 1280622827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who thought up how to make nukes were mostly loner insane geniuses, I'd say. < 1280622830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual building, maybe not < 1280622908 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the only people who had anything to do with the nukes were insane then they would not have been made < 1280622920 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, too insane < 1280623100 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280623107 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280623142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: you're denouncing insanity in #esoteric < 1280623144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh man. < 1280623169 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm not, i'm promoting "organised insanity" < 1280623173 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; defaulting to 000082bc < 1280623180 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's gotta be what is causing my segfaults < 1280623226 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1280623229 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 A person who was involved in a car accident was mistakenly pronounced dead at the scene by an ambulance officer. However, during the removal of the body, the victim was found to be still alive. Rushed to hospital, they died there later. < 1280623251 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the* victim was found... *they* died there later < 1280623303 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the* reader was anal... *they* were used to programming in esoteric languages < 1280623313 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1280623410 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmkay < 1280623450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's phantom_hoover got to... < 1280623503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conspiring with his phantom friends < 1280623788 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280623838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I got a "! Misplaced \omit" error. < 1280623860 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "\multispan ->\omit" "\hline\end{tabulary}" < 1280623959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also got undefined control sequence \TY@F4 < 1280623970 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any such control sequence in my document, I don't have \omit either < 1280624001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're using some LaTeX command wrong, I guess; by causing it to do that. < 1280624023 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "\hline\end{tabulary}" wrong? < 1280624031 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I using "\multispan" wrong? < 1280624060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have "\multispan" or "\omit" on this document! < 1280624103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the hline thing is in your document, that must be wrong. < 1280624111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put your document on sprunge and I'll have a look. < 1280624145 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can access it at: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/printout/main.tex < 1280624195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl grmbl files that won't display in the browser < 1280624277 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know in the browser I use I can push "t" to force display as text. But you can also use curl or wget to get the files, or use the view-source: function in the browser < 1280624287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Strange: I cannot see an error in your code. Does it give a hint as to what line? < 1280624306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Line 49 < 1280624354 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there is a lot of other problems too, table headings are formatting incorrectly, it also badly formats tables that take up multiple pages < 1280624358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah yeah i know it's useless to complain you all just say "install linux and firefox" < 1280624417 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also prints "_LOOKUP _OF_SKILLS" at the top of the table of contents, for some reason that I don't know. < 1280624419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i can easily save it and open in vim, it's just one click too much to bother.) < 1280624504 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it *still* says the Introduction is on page 3 even after I converted it to LaTeX, even though the Introduction is actually on page 7, just like before. < 1280624579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the contents entries for the different spells levels are not lined up properly < 1280624658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with view-source in IE is that it doesn't become available before the browser actually displays the document _somehow_. i cannot get past the save/choose program dialog box. oh well. < 1280624703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280624707 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tables are still badly formatted, worse than before, even. < 1280624736 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also two blank pages before chapter 5 and chapter 6 < 1280624753 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, bet you can't guess what THIS does: http://www.ioccc.org/1994/tvr.c < 1280624762 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See main.dvi < 1280624771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What table command are you using? < 1280624786 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yay TeX... amirite? < 1280624789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do not use multicolumn for tables! < 1280624802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Tables < 1280624808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the tabular environment < 1280624819 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: Something with X, I suppose? < 1280624835 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but look at what it spells out < 1280624850 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z <- Z^2 + C = ? < 1280624865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mandelbrot. < 1280624888 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct! < 1280624896 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it spells Z -> Z^2 + C ? < 1280624922 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I did look at that tables < 1280624947 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But {tabulary} is needed to make it automatically wrap text in columns < 1280624950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're using multicolumn, though, which does not do the proper formatting for tables. < 1280624951 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still does it badly < 1280624958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso? < 1280624968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By default, if the text in a column is too wide for the page, LaTeX won’t automatically wrap it. Using p{width} you can define a special type of column which will wrap-around the text as in a normal paragraph. You can pass the width using any unit supported by LaTeX, such as pt and cm, or command lengths, such as \textwidth.You can find a complete list in appendix Useful Measurement Macros. < 1280625001 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use that because it has to be generated automatically from the .irm files < 1280625032 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280625051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: tabularx < 1280625058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\begin{tabularx}{\linewidth}{...tablespec...} < 1280625114 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also says I need "supertab" for multiple pages < 1280625129 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "xtabular" < 1280625148 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which ones I need or how they should be used < 1280625168 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the examples on Wikibooks do use \multicolumn < 1280625182 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I try to use for the table headings < 1280625187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think tabularx will work, no? < 1280625230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does tabularx do all of these things? < 1280625253 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the main.dvi file (in the same directory as main.tex) to see what is going wrong!! < 1280625321 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See that the "Character-Start Feats" table is partly off the page (on page 30) < 1280625342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish this was a pdf, so I could search it... < 1280625363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you have two tables without a paragraph between them! < 1280625372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to use \par -- or, in stuff you write yourself, two newlines < 1280625416 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See on page 49 it is cut off < 1280625477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now it is a PDF. < 1280625477 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280625502 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280625512 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280625524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is wrong on 49? < 1280625575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The text is cut off (it should say "Duration" there), also there should be a line break before "Target" < 1280625596 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look also the list on page 48 is cut off < 1280625615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On page 47 there is too large space between section names < 1280625644 0 :Vegabondmx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Vegabondmx < 1280625669 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is page numbers in table of contents is wrong? < 1280625722 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280625742 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the formatting worked much better when it was Plain TeX, but that one had problems as well < 1280625853 0 :javawizard!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280625860 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I still have the files for printing it with Plain TeX, they are different files than the LaTeX files) < 1280625893 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Plain TeX one is called "icoruma_tex.php" and "icoruma.tex" while the LaTeX one uses "icoruma_latex.php" only) < 1280625904 0 :javawizard!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jcp < 1280625955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I know how icoruma.tex works! < 1280625963 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280625983 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280625998 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280626013 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether I use Plain TeX (and icoruma.tex) or if I use LaTeX, it is still wrong! < 1280626136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did tabularx not work? < 1280626163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It has the same problem and everything is still broken. < 1280626168 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't only the tables that are broken. < 1280626174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else is broken? < 1280626199 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of things are cut off, spacing is all wrong, page numbers are still wrong..... < 1280626222 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The formatting is worse than the macro packages I wrote myself. < 1280626239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have probably used the wrong code. < 1280626248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since your document still probably has non-LaTeXy things in there < 1280626259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is cut off? < 1280626266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is wrong with the page numbers? < 1280626300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of things are cut off, some of the tables are, also the list of spells and the spell descriptions are both cut off < 1280626312 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page numbers in the table of contents are not the actual page numbers for those sections < 1280626319 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are four less than the actual page numbers < 1280626487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LaTeX just seems much more complicated than Plain TeX, I am going back to using my own < 1280626627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders why VS2010 is working when the installer says it failed to install < 1280626651 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Microsoft software is all like that..... < 1280627684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ta < 1280627907 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Later I will work on this printout of the rules for Icosahedral RPG. < 1280627914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I will do other things < 1280627996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biiiiiiiiiig Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeen < 1280628023 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280628043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now say terrify. < 1280628048 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now say tissue. < 1280628053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now say them both fast together. < 1280628055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name rings a bell < 1280628065 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you ever wonder why women always get a place to sleep? < 1280628092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1280628113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea what terrifytissue is supposed to mean < 1280628132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose it is because it is the weaker sex. < 1280628139 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. I believe they are stronger. < 1280628140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You /are/ joking, right? < 1280628144 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know why I believe that? < 1280628150 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they get enough sleep, that's why. < 1280628184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1280628194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually I am just quoting something from this pinball game, those are the speech they say in the background it is probably from some old movie or something like that < 1280628332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow! I'm really good! I hit all of the drop targets! < 1280628473 0 :andynth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280628483 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h129.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280628936 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280629082 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg lives!!!! < 1280629114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death powered killing golems < 1280629135 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh death-powered, I like that :) < 1280629152 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a special power released in death? < 1280629175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently. < 1280629235 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to see if I can compile egobf for android < 1280629356 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280629734 0 :yiyus_!3390ade@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1280630426 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this would seem to answer my question except it doesn't work http://www.uclibc.org/FAQ.html#gnu_malloc < 1280630503 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: It doesn't work? How so? < 1280630534 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobfi8-bfi.o: In function `bf_interpret': < 1280630535 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfi.c:(.text.bf_interpret+0x74): undefined reference to `rpl_realloc' < 1280630535 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfi.c:(.text.bf_interpret+0x240): undefined reference to `rpl_realloc' < 1280630535 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfi.c:(.text.bf_interpret+0x34c): undefined reference to `rpl_realloc' < 1280630561 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got that. < 1280630564 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how does the solution not work. < 1280630577 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, chalk that up to "when I wrote egobf, I sucked at autoconf" :P < 1280630577 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :export jm_cv_func_working_malloc=yes < 1280630578 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :export ac_cv_func_malloc_0_nonnull=yes < 1280630592 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I suck at autoconf*inf < 1280630602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you murder your config.status first? < 1280630610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that'll override exports if you're not careful. < 1280630628 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying < 1280630661 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't help.. going to see if I can figure out how to add MALLOC_GLIBC_COMPA < 1280630665 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+T < 1280630678 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, presumably you're trying NOT to recompile libc here, right? < 1280630688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or are you not using Android's libc at all? < 1280630696 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I was assuming that was something for autoconf < 1280630713 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1280630717 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Android's libc.. bionic < 1280630736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid fix: Configure, edit config.h to remove the relevant #define, and pray it doesn't regenerate it. < 1280630884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Gregor will like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtZfW2z9dw < 1280630890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available in stunning 1080p HD! < 1280630910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just seems like the kind of thing Gregor would link in here ten times in five minutes. :P < 1280630985 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey hey hey ... I don't relink things with that frequency all that often ... < 1280630990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suuuure < 1280631011 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol the subtitles are hd, that's about it < 1280631027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with HD subtitles! < 1280631077 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wtf. < 1280631079 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtfwtfwtf < 1280631082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftw < 1280631085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1280631092 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll spam link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Xa4bHcJu8 instead < 1280631107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't appreciate the beauty of music. < 1280631838 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiled.. trying it raw < 1280632117 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess egobfc doesn't make much sense to include < 1280632326 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fast hehe < 1280632424 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: apt will have to wait because it requires libraries I don't have yet < 1280632582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=364dzVsBs2o#t=0m57s <-- This washing machine hates tomato plants. < 1280632585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, really loathes them. < 1280632650 0 :rodgort`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1280632658 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280634382 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280634465 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280635405 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280635425 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280635440 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280635551 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/textfile/miscellaneous/computergameidea < 1280635561 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which idea do you like/dislike? < 1280635743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sokoban on drugs!!" < 1280635826 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have anything to expand any of these? < 1280635834 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, to add additional comments? < 1280636033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<6> is not a game < 1280636035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1280636062 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it a game... with that title.... < 1280636070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WHOOSH* < 1280636074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: pipe < 1280636080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think < 1280636288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is SICP available free? Will I learn _good_ design from it? < 1280636302 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is SICP? < 1280636327 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omfg < 1280636328 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMFG < 1280636330 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT <5> < 1280636332 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WANT < 1280636396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dislike the title-only ideas < 1280636410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You won't learn good design from it because it's nothing like C#. < 1280636434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sarcasm, I presume? Or are you saying that I won't learn good _OOP_ design from it? < 1280636452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant you specifically won't because of C# Syndrome. < 1280636477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# Syndrome? < 1280636492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've known C# for less than a year < 1280636499 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes I can understand you dislike the title-only ideas because it is only a title, it doesn't really help much, but it is possible to imagination more about what it might be like, a bit < 1280636534 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280636534 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've known Python for... 6 years I think. If there's a Python syndrome, I may have it, but not C# Syndrome < 1280636572 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you have any more specific ideas about anything on this list? Different people can have different ideas about it, I guess. And then if that is not specific enough other people (including me or even other people who did before) can add on to that, and so on < 1280636657 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<13> sounds like it would be an interesting puzzle game < 1280636683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is <5> not a subset of <8>? < 1280636684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It might, if I can think of how it might work < 1280636687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magritte's pipes game could contain a lot of objects that look like pipes but turn out not to be when you pick them up < 1280636714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pipe-looking landscape features, and such < 1280636754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: <5> and <8> are two different things. By <8> I was thinking of something like "Tetanus on Drugs" (a GameBoy Advance game, Damian Yerrick wrote it and it is GNU GPL licensed) < 1280637239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1280637253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night alise < 1280637267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1280637269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280637342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know there are pink rotary payphones in Japan? < 1280637393 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are found in the back of issue 26:3 of 2600 < 1280637466 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can they be blueboxed < 1280637483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I don't know. I wonder if someone has tried. < 1280637491 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Do you mean blueboxed? Or redboxed?) < 1280637517 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Redbox is the one for payphones, usually) < 1280637542 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue. < 1280637551 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the one that lets you do free international phonecalls. < 1280637551 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280637569 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Yes, that is what the blue one can be used for < 1280637590 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An early phreaking tool, the blue box is an electronic device that simulates a telephone operator's dialing console. It functions by replicating the tones used to switch long-distance calls and using them to route the user's own call, bypassing the normal switching mechanism. The most typical use of a blue box was to place free telephone calls < 1280637594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although to be specific, the blue box is simply used to generate a different type of tones than standard DTMF) < 1280637703 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silverbox is the one for generating sixteen DTMF tones. As far as anyone knows you can't make free calls with it, but it can be used to automatically dial phones or to send DTMF to a remote service that uses DTMF even if you have only a rotary phone. < 1280637724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I have tried this, the four extra tones do stop the dial tone on the phone I have at home! < 1280637782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the service over here does recognize them, but might just treat any telephone number containing them as invalid, I don't actually know. < 1280637784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280638165 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: NO CARRIER < 1280639437 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280639467 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280639733 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: language where some commands are of the form < 1280640247 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 second apples and oranges? < 1280641037 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome :P < 1280641055 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want "millenium hand and shrimp" to be legal < 1280641626 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro++ < 1280641726 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h234.9.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280642785 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280644072 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280644082 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You haven't written it in green--your notes will be all wrong. < 1280644137 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My conversion program Icoruma->TeX (without LaTeX) works completely perfectly when there are no tables involved! < 1280646026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280646106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280646312 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280647264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280648057 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280649599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1280649600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280652947 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-35-193.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280652975 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1280653264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1280653282 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1280653302 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280653308 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280653325 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280653765 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1280653862 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280654843 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280657121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280657942 0 :distant_1igure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280658080 0 :distant_1igure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280658796 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280658853 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280659018 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280659893 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E58CF.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280661385 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280661615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280662661 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280663342 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280663975 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280663994 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280664009 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280664265 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280665951 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280666234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is your first name Alex? < 1280666241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280666269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kicks himself < 1280666279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought it was Adam for some reason. < 1280668829 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought it was ais523 < 1280669142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does the 'i' stand for? < 1280669145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ivan? < 1280669149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1280669153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Igor? < 1280669154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it really matter, though? < 1280669157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1280669235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't think of any other male names beginning with I... < 1280669294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ian? < 1280669522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280669534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1280670391 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h60.37.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280670603 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280671331 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-34-224.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280671335 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'day < 1280671515 0 :thanatos!~f901q@195-240-58-228.ip.telfort.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280671570 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.111.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280671581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanatos? < 1280671591 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280671670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i have thoughts on os, will discuss soon < 1280671679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, thoughts! < 1280671696 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os? < 1280671697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanatos, are you sane? < 1280671710 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1280671712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane people ruin oses < 1280671829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, fair enough. < 1280671838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280671999 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something more about sane people? < 1280672012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280672038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what are the thoughts? < 1280672058 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thoughts are illusion < 1280672126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanatos: this channel is for programming < 1280672138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: busy atm will tell in a little while] < 1280672140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*while < 1280672188 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric is about programming? :o < 1280672215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is about esoteric programming languages < 1280672217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not esoterica. < 1280672217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1280672239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe try somewhere else than freenode, this is a programming network mostly, for an esoterica channel < 1280672243 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't believe you :) < 1280672250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1280672258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanatos: see the topic < 1280672262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Topic for #esoteric is: (a(:^)*S):^ | Should the esolangs community have a Hackiki wiki? (Wiki capable of running nearly-arbitrary code) Vote: http://poll.fm/23p9l | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1280672264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some code < 1280672268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs - esoteric languages < 1280672271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly-arbitrary code < 1280672275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or look at the logs < 1280672296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: back me up here < 1280672316 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :em.... < 1280672352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp alise alise.old < 1280672354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1280672363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har < 1280672373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, now *I* need to go. < 1280672383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: gah! for how long? < 1280672422 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280672534 0 :Fallensn0w!~thimceder@213-66-191-11-no24.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280672546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1280672547 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h5.7.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280672562 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiya < 1280672568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1280672573 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats up < 1280672586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming < 1280672623 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol ^^ < 1280672634 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lang? < 1280672640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any :p < 1280672646 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280672702 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats your fav esoteric lang lol < 1280672718 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280672728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload or one of cpressey's or oklopol's, not sure which < 1280672760 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280672763 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool < 1280672785 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload's easy to program in though xd < 1280672800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cpressey = Befunge, noit o' mnain worb, 5000 others -- catseye.tc guy) < 1280672804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oklopol = insane) < 1280672810 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280673778 0 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-119-166.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280674272 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey is probably one of the sanest persons in this channel < 1280674337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fallensn0w: what have you done in underload? < 1280674403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fallen snow, i thought it was fall en[d]s now < 1280674455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280674580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alex INTERCAL Smith < 1280674601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is a bit slow isn't he < 1280674629 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess this would make more sense if ais had chosen the name, now he'd have to have changed it < 1280676489 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, Intercal is an awesome given name < 1280676495 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why I haven't realized before < 1280677250 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280677714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey is probably one of the sanest persons in this channel < 1280677721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, no < 1280677772 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly? < 1280677864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he is the NIH every-system-sucks let's-reinvent-computing types; and, man, just look at his esolangs < 1280677893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is the sanest person here then? < 1280677895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually while trying to figure out how Whothm works recently I ran into this quote from the documentation... (sec) < 1280677907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'd love to tell you about Whothm, but first I need to tell you about Joanie, the Gnostic Babysitter. Have you seen her? She's a very normal twelve-year-old girl, with very normal twelve-year-old girl concerns — she worries if her friends will make fun of her for liking different music than they do, worries if that cute boy in home room likes her or not, worries if she'll be able to achieve a transcendant state of gnosis at the moment of her physical de < 1280677907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ath so that her soul may be freed from the reincarnation cycle. Because, you see, she's a Gnostic. Not just curious about Gnosticism, not just going through a phase, or anything like that — Joanie is a die-hard, demiurge-rejecting, rotten-material-world-shunning Gnostic. And she charges $15 an hour. < 1280677907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I can tell you about Whothm." < 1280677915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, I would very much doubt sanity. < 1280677924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hehehe... < 1280677953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it isn't you :P < 1280677958 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but... every system *does* suck, and computing *should* be reinvented :P < 1280677960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's you. < 1280677965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, but :) < 1280677967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say ais except for INTERCAL and feather < 1280677975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais is definitely crazy. < 1280677978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's you. it's why you're boring < 1280677986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280677987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1280677993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*not POV, others have called you the sanest e.g. oerjan :D) < 1280677997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Deewiant is pretty sane too < 1280678010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1280678012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he uses D. < 1280678015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, nvm, x86-64 asm for that dobela interpreter < 1280678016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not sane < 1280678023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(% typos) < 1280678053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, olsner seems quite sane < 1280678060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1280678069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember him doing much but idling and saying a few lines every now and then < 1280678074 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :) < 1280678134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm... Sgeo is not actually insane is he? ... Just obsessed. < 1280678151 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is true that I mostly idle around here... < 1280678187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: necrophile < 1280678193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, who? < 1280678196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sgeo < 1280678199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wf < 1280678199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: & thinks C# is nice < 1280678200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf* < 1280678206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoosh < 1280678209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, this is a PSOX joke < 1280678210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1280678213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1280678219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :activeworlds joke then < 1280678228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is really as good as dead < 1280678229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, & other old VRs < 1280678235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro invented the necrophile thing :P < 1280678239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The main purpose of trigraphs and digraphs is so you can say "neener, neener, you didn't do it right" to some poor sap trying to write a tool that processes C and C++ source code." -- Walter Bright < 1280678249 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: besides, all my esoteric projects are all idling right now, waiting for my compiler to mature so I have something to write them in :) < 1280678252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD < 1280678256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what, that M++ thing? < 1280678265 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, a different thing < 1280678272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, what? < 1280678290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have to admit... I used them for that a couple of times. Only against people who I knew wouldn't take it badly though < 1280678296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and what about cpp and TC? < 1280678300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got anywhere with that? < 1280678315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think cpp is on the border between TC and not. < 1280678332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone linked me to the Game of Life implementation I could see if the lists would work. < 1280678346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game of life implementation of cpp? < 1280678349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1280678353 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nothing fancy really, kind of C-ish with modules instead of includes, and some random syntax changes < 1280678376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, gc? < 1280678380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: other way around < 1280678381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GoL in CPP < 1280678387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: shame, i was hoping some crazy functional crap :) < 1280678392 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have haskell for that < 1280678395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, I would link you, except I never heard about it before today < 1280678403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: haskell is insufficiently theoretical (type system is too weak) < 1280678409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's what spurred the TC cpp discussion < 1280678410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has a finite grid < 1280678413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not in and of itself a proof < 1280678416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1280678422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in and of itself" is such a weird idiom < 1280678430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1280678430 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I do have a couple of ideas for crazy functional crap... dunno if/when I'll get around to implementing any of them though < 1280678447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, almost as weird as "x is all but y" < 1280678456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is probably not weird to a native speaker) < 1280678498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least "in and of itself" can be expanded to "in itself, and of itself" < 1280678499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1280678508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's not, in itself, and of itself, a proof" < 1280678513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot more parseable < 1280678526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet Swedish has crazy idioms, though. < 1280678532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://zem.fi/~fis/20100731_010-027.jpg -- it's quite color-bandy, since it was snapped with the phone's normal camera app with full-auto settings, and also the sun took a peek at some point so the lighting changed; I did try the "LDR, variable WB" exposure optimization, but it mostly got the foresty part the same green, but made the sky be horribly surreal. < 1280678552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Should've just done raw with fcam, but it's a bit slower, and didn't want to inconvenience others.) < 1280678556 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, since I've been reading TaPL I will aim to get a proper type system into this language < 1280678556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void) < 1280678556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1280678556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : auto a = puts((char[:>)<%a='a'+'\a',-~a,!(int<:'a']){[!!'a':>="a"<:!a]%>}); < 1280678556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 0; < 1280678556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1280678573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, tried ldr, variable but with camera response unchecked? < 1280678574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: If it's as weak as Haskell's I will shoot you. < 1280678577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tends to give better results < 1280678578 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about just using simply typed lambda calculus as the type system < 1280678583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it has typeclasses I will shoot you.) < 1280678585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, need a small error still < 1280678586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hm, no; I could try that. < 1280678591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: doesn't work < 1280678598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: because, we need a type *, being the type of types < 1280678602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for A,B in * < 1280678607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we conclude A->B in * < 1280678608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas < 1280678611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for A,B in X < 1280678618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, way quicker too < 1280678619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's approximately from here: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=60.215859,21.292362&spn=0.080239,0.208569&t=h&z=13 < 1280678620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we conclude \(x:A). (y:B) in A->B < 1280678626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ^ so we can see that this does not work < 1280678634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is my internet so slow < 1280678638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1280678640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your upload < 1280678641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1280678642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the original De Bruijn proof checker used that model but it caused problems, which is why the types are usually separated < 1280678667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you *have* to point out my lack of upload bandwidth every single time I share a picture? I'm depressed about it enough as is. < 1280678677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sorry < 1280678699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a tip: progressive jpeg tends to be a bit smaller than normal ones, for same quality setting < 1280678715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 360°? < 1280678721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice though < 1280678727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it's from an observation tower thing up on a hill. < 1280678736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280678750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and make sure you set the exposure reference image to one of the good ones < 1280678750 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.111.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280678755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone paste the last few lines plz < 1280678757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1280678759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280678763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes; it's from an observation tower thing up on a hill. < 1280678764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* alise has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) < 1280678764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, oh and make sure you set the exposure reference image to one of the good ones < 1280678770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than that, I need < 1280678775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed more due to freeze < 1280678780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : olsner: the original De Bruijn proof checker used that model but it caused problems, which is why the types are usually separated < 1280678781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Do you *have* to point out my lack of upload bandwidth every single time I share a picture? I'm depressed about it enough as is. < 1280678781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, sorry < 1280678781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, a tip: progressive jpeg tends to be a bit smaller than normal ones, for same quality setting < 1280678782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, 360°? < 1280678784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : very nice though < 1280678786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1280678787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes; it's from an observation tower thing up on a hill. < 1280678788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, freeze? < 1280678806 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hmm, I don't understand what you're saying, but do you have a reference to that De Bruijn proof checker you were talking about? < 1280678809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, typing didn't work, nothing worked, ctrl+alt+f1 didn't work, just jerky mouse movements worked. < 1280678812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Try drinking some antifreeze." (Note: do not actually try that.) < 1280678816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Freek has written about it. < 1280678820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sysrq? < 1280678827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: anyway: do you mean just using the STLC type system? < 1280678833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I thought you meant using STLC terms as types < 1280678844 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using STLC terms as types < 1280678856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: forgot to try < 1280678870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: right. Well, you'd represent the type of a function from A to B as what, then? < 1280678870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1280678880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nothing in logs after reboot? < 1280678894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280678922 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you could say something like ((\x -> void(*)(x,x)) int) to write the type of a function that takes two ints < 1280678957 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's not really the syntax I will use for functions or function pointers though) < 1280678969 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.111.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280678972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fizzie's damn picture. < 1280678980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes Firefox hang the system when loading. < 1280678993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's just 9000 pixels wide, it's not *that* big. Especially compared to what AnMaster tends to post. < 1280678997 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail, I wrote two lines of response just between "alise has quit" and "alise has joined" < 1280679001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, firefox doesn't like it. < 1280679010 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so, you could say something like ((\x -> void(*)(x,x)) int) to write the type of a function that takes two ints < 1280679010 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (that's not really the syntax I will use for functions or function pointers though) < 1280679010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:08:42 so, you could say something like ((\x -> void(*)(x,x)) int) to write the type of a function that takes two ints < 1280679010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:09:17 (that's not really the syntax I will use for functions or function pointers though) < 1280679011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's the content. Your system can't handle the pristine wilderness! < 1280679024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: how hideously pointless is that? that's equivalent to (void (*) (int, int)) < 1280679047 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, in reality you wouldn't use it to write pointless examples < 1280679050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: It's just 9000 pixels wide, it's not *that* big. Especially compared to what AnMaster tends to post. <-- true < 1280679061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but I always use progressive jpeg < 1280679063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well anyway there has been a lot of good research done on type systems and i recommend you pick a better one ;) < 1280679065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that affects anything < 1280679080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i guess O'Caml's type system might be a good one to look at? < 1280679091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, maybe your system will work and I am a hopeless ...theoretician; wow, that's a word. < 1280679097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I still wish I had the stuff needed to make a 360° spherical at full optical zoom. HDR. < 1280679115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would be quite a bit over 100 MP iirc < 1280679118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Any sort of variable-wb seems to insist on freaky sky (but nicely matching greenery); I think it simply needs more-than-two-parameters color correction in order to make both the sky and the shrubberies (ni!) match. < 1280679130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280679135 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it should surely "work" as in "produce types", the practical usability is a different question :) < 1280679158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: of course. < 1280679160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, very strange that though... That it would need more than 2 var wb < 1280679167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if types are first order beings, then why not just call them sets < 1280679179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Coq and Agda do < 1280679186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: except Coq has Type with Set and Prop as descendants < 1280679188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what system specs btw? < 1280679190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since propositions aren't really sets that much. < 1280679194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, since firefox here likes it < 1280679195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: more than good enough < 1280679202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CPU isn't the fastest, but it blazes all the time < 1280679210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sempron 3300+, 1.5 GB RAM. 72 tabs in firefox < 1280679213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i do warn you that if you introduce a type system like that you will end up with a functional language with bad syntax, unintentionally :D < 1280679219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess the default camera app might do any sort of "color-correction" postprocessing. It does some sort of edge-enhancing thing and horribly artifacty noise reduction already. < 1280679220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a bit slow to zoom in and out but otherwise just fine < 1280679221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, well, evidently there's some issue here with that imgae. < 1280679223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*image < 1280679229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really need you to brag about how your system manages it < 1280679261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm just pointing out that my old system manages it. Are you using that old thing with windows xp barely running on it? < 1280679264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What what what the Brontosaurus and Triceratops never existed < 1280679268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am crying < 1280679276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I'm running my good Toshiba < 1280679280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which has 4 GiB of RAM. < 1280679289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no smell of solder yet? ;P < 1280679297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, yes, only a 1.3 GHz dual-core Core 2, but dammit, ghz don't matter, it's fast < 1280679306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What what what the Brontosaurus and Triceratops never existed <-- ? The first got renamed didn't it? The second I have no clue about < 1280679310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I usually have 100+ CSS-y Javascript-y tabs open in firefox, so nyah < 1280679311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean something more recent? < 1280679318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, breaking news? < 1280679324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gizmodo.com/5601514/the-triceratops-never-existed-it-was-actually-a-young-version-of-another-dinosaur < 1280679327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the title in that URL. < 1280679335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yes, new news; just not breaking. < 1280679370 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I may also try to introduce type-functions that can produce code ... so many different ideas, I'll probably end up implementing none of them! < 1280679387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah interesting < 1280679390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh: < 1280679391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It was already known that triceratops skulls changed throughout their development, but not that the final result was a torosaurus. Torosaurus will now be abolished as a species and specimens reassigned to Triceratops, says Horner." < 1280679401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So more shoddy Gizmodo reporting. This is why I read engadget! < 1280679408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the date that was posted < 1280679413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: type inferring is a bitch btw :P < 1280679418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sidebar at the top < 1280679422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gizmodo is also horribly laid out < 1280679425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANOTHER REASON TO READ ENGADGET < 1280679434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there < 1280679437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although engadget's redesign is also shit. < 1280679449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not sure how dinosaurs apply to either site < 1280679462 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah, also it's awesome so I'd like to have that too :P < 1280679464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tend to both include semi-random stuff the audience will like. < 1280679474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS < 1280679518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large were those young triceratops? < 1280679544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1280679555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, dammit, "Torosaurus will now be abolished as a species and specimens reassigned to Triceratops, says Horner." < 1280679560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gizmodo ruined my childhood TEMPORARILY. < 1280679562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1280679571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1280679582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the temp bit < 1280679583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Gizmodo KEPT A STOLEN PRE-RELEASE IPHONE 4. < 1280679587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Engadget would NEVER be so evil. < 1280679589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1280679592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't get why it would ruin your childhood < 1280679597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DINOSORZ < 1280679615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I almost took this seriously and then I discovered it was on Gizmodo." --reddit THE PUBLIC ARE TIRING OF INFERIOR GADGETRY SITES < 1280679620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I am only getting paid a lot to say this < 1280679629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about them? < 1280679634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dinosaurs I mean < 1280679697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DINO SORRRRRZ < 1280679762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, didn't get that. Too much static. Try resending with reed-solomon < 1280679791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open sores < 1280679799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1280679839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Ubuntu Rhythmbox has finally jumped off the deep-end and now opens on the Ubuntu One ... view, tab, whatever, rather than the library. < 1280679845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clooooooooooooooooud Stooooooooooooooraaaaaaaaaage < 1280679859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1280679863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in what version? < 1280679869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.04. < 1280679901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it doesn't, maybe I did something. But I don't think so. < 1280679916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, doesn't here. Maybe I uninstalled that part early on. < 1280679924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there is actually no such tab < 1280679925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1280679942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably you hid the tab or something. < 1280679957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now it starts in the proper tab. < 1280679969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You have the side pane on right? < 1280679973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you got "Stores" hidden? < 1280679982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, just closed it *reopens to check* < 1280680017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I gotta finds me a music player. Not Banshee, Banshee is iTunes. < 1280680022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, says Library with several headings under it: (reverse i18ned titles): play queue, music, podcasts, radio < 1280680024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Quod Libet like last time, but *eh* < 1280680028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there is a playlist heading a bit below < 1280680034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and no Stores heading? < 1280680038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're not on 10.04. < 1280680053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :containing some "my hig...", "last pla..." and "most recently add.." < 1280680059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Exaile because it uses vertical tabs and those are an abomination < 1280680061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no stores anywhere < 1280680072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I am on luicd < 1280680079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, why has nobody created something as good as Amarok 1 yet :P < 1280680082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Amarok 2 is crap) < 1280680102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I think I removed all packages that showed up on a search for ubuntu-one < 1280680110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's probably it, then. < 1280680121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That probably uninstalled ubuntu-desktop. Maybe not the best idea. < 1280680133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, ubuntu-desktop is still installed < 1280680141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they were recommends instead of depends < 1280680142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1280680144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Okay. < 1280680148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might do that. < 1280680155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking Canonical. < 1280680166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course with recommends you probably need to override some setting to make it treat it closer to suggests instead < 1280680169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How dare they try and make a profit, darned company :P < 1280680178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :P < 1280680186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is terribly intrusive though. < 1280680203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, install debfoster < 1280680206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, I really should just implement my Perfect Music Daemon and Client. < 1280680210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very good to clean up the mess after upgrades ;P < 1280680219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you don't need debfoster < 1280680222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's deprecated since 2006 < 1280680226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh? < 1280680233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you do install with aptitude, right? < 1280680266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, varies. apt-get, aptitude or synaptic < 1280680273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, do not use apt-get. ever < 1280680279 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always use apt-get < 1280680284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? it's like using dpkg. aptitude is the official debian package manager. And, furthermore: < 1280680288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it supports the "installed as dep" stuff < 1280680291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude automatically debfosters on every action basically. < 1280680299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes that is annoying < 1280680303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is why < 1280680304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As of 2006-01-01, debfoster is officially deprecated: aptitude does the same stuff as debfoster but integrated into the apt system. To convert your debfoster data to the aptitude database, use the conversion script." < 1280680308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only want it to do that when I tell it to < 1280680312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Okay, then: "apt-get autoremove". < 1280680315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1280680317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's your debfoster now? < 1280680321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In HELL. < 1280680341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because it seems on jaunty the entire default package set was marked as manually installed by default < 1280680354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that didn't resolve completely after upgrading to lucid < 1280680361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is where < 1280680371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lord, why do people suck so much as software. < 1280680382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1280680409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Songbird? Wikipedia, why the fuck do you call SONGBIRD a music player? It's more like a hideous Firefoxed abomination that simultaneously rips off iTunes, makes it somehow SLOWER, and adds a bunch of crap! < 1280680411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rage. Raaage. < 1280680419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Linux support for Songbird was discontinued in April, 2010." and nothing of value was lost < 1280680439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tl;dr software sucks < 1280680442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mozilla dropped linux support in a product? < 1280680464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Songbird isn't Mozilla. < 1280680469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280680470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just uses Firefox as the base code or something. < 1280680472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1280680476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it wants to be hellish and awful. < 1280680479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it succeeds at. < 1280680495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is literally the biggest, slowest, most bloated piece of software that only irritates you that I have ever seen. < 1280680499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X has been displaced. < 1280680518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes. Btw I started using mobile versions of sites that have that even on desktop. Stuff like the Swedish equiv of BBC and such < 1280680521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way faster < 1280680531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads like in a snap, unlike their normal site < 1280680535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hee, in Britain our BBC has a well-designed website by default that loads instantly. < 1280680540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and easier to navigate < 1280680544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes indeed < 1280680552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it, unbelievably, has a clean and simple, typographically-oriented design! < 1280680564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/And/ it's actually standards-compliant, and uses /RDF/: < 1280680565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1280680572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/And/ their devs have blogs and stuff. < 1280680574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, compare loading time: http://mobil.sr.se/ http://sr.se/ < 1280680583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUR NEWS CORPORATION IS MORE GEEKY THAN YOURS < 1280680593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wow, sr.se loads slowly and is ugly. < 1280680602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mobil.sr.se/ is a bit craply designed for screen though, obviously. < 1280680620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Now compare with our BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-10830485 < 1280680622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wrt sr.se: agreed. It was better before the redesign about a years ago < 1280680623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK WE WIN < 1280680628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Might not load as quickly outside of the UK.) < 1280680636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes the mobile one is obviously designed for stuff like my phone < 1280680642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works very well in opera mini on my phone < 1280680669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm saying here is that if you don't care about human rights or not sucking, we are a better country than you. < 1280680670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that loads a bit slow from over here. Slightly faster than sr.se though < 1280680687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iceland ftw < 1280680696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes maybe 1 second or so from completely refresh load (including all CSS, images, etc. from scratch (forced)). < 1280680708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you saw that stuff about Assange and media heaven on iceland? < 1280680713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With everything cached apart from the page it loads in maybe .3 seconds. < 1280680716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(however he spells his name) < 1280680748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, googling his name returns a bunch of anti-Wikileaks articles in the mainstream media. < 1280680752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the Afghan stuff. < 1280680760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Julian Assange: is 'Wikileaker' a crusade or ego trip?" --Telegraph < 1280680768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, mobil.sr.se loads in a fraction of a second on a complete reload. the bbc link loads in about 1.5 seconds, sr.se in about 2 < 1280680768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But no, I didn't see that. < 1280680779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but complete reloads are pointless :P < 1280680782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And our site is better designed so nyah < 1280680786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you don't have to use the mobile site < 1280680787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.immi.is/ < 1280680788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^ < 1280680796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did hear that Rejkyavik or whatever elected a joke party. < 1280680802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which turned out to actually be the best party in the elections. < 1280680817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, check that link out. Assange planted the idea originally from what I read < 1280680869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1280680881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only they had more than four people in the entire country. < 1280680889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, the laws are not in place, they just decided that they will design them and put them in place < 1280680907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The four people are Bjork, two of the members of Sigur Rós (the other two are fictional), and the Prime Minister.) < 1280680917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there is about the same number of people in this Swedish equiv of county where I live and on Iceland. Slightly less on iceland iirc < 1280680962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Sigur Rós? < 1280680983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a popular (well, in indie circles) post-rock band from Iceland. < 1280681016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway they have cheap energy on iceland. Thermal energy. Looks like a haven for green data centers as long as you put in a dust filter (ash in the heatsink can't be good!) < 1280681016 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-25-154.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280681034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. I just couldn't live somewhere so tiny, though. < 1280681046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280681065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as far as people go. < 1280681091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Islande_-_Rekjavik_du_haut_de_la_cath%C3%A9drale.JPG This is Central Rekjavík. 'Nuff said. < 1280681111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many inhabitants in Rekjavik? < 1280681157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118,427 in 277.1 km^2. 200,852 in 1,062.24 km^2 in the Greater Reykjavík Area (i.e. the only metropolitan area in Iceland). < 1280681167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that latter total includes Reykjavík itself) < 1280681171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is around the same as this town, which just happens to formally be a city. One of the last ones to become a city before they dropped the concept of special city rights (I think it was around 1920 or 1930 or so) < 1280681183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1280681189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118,427 inhabitants? < 1280681192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way more then < 1280681204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this city/town is like 20000 < 1280681222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total population of Iceland is 317,593, but the 100,000 or so not in the Greater Reykjavík Area just, like, live in volcanoes or something. < 1280681227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it's still a very small place. < 1280681234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Besides. < 1280681240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Greater Reykjavík Area is a large area of Iceland. < 1280681252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, slightly larger than the largest city of this county-equiv. < 1280681254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/H%C3%B6fu%C3%B0borgarsv%C3%A6%C3%B0i.svg < 1280681260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That red portion is the Greater Reykjavík Area. < 1280681265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So really it's a county. < 1280681267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280681271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah < 1280681274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And consider that outside of there there is /no metropolises/. < 1280681278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just villages and the like. < 1280681284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there are /no metropolises/. < 1280681298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I would call Reykjavík a metropolis as such though < 1280681328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newcastle, the nearest city to where I live, has 273,600 people in just 113 km^2. < 1280681332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I'm pretty sure I *wouldn't* < 1280681338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah. < 1280681339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's pretty large < 1280681348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but it's a "regular city" so to speak. < 1280681371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Tyneside, a very small portion of England around it, has 800,000. < 1280681376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, remember that Stockholm including suburbs has about 1 000 000 inhabitants iirc < 1280681376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah: Iceland is /almost empty/. < 1280681381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :London is way larger than that < 1280681389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, Reykjavík has lots of technology and the like. < 1280681398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so UK "regular city" is larger than Swedish regular city < 1280681403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a very modern city with a lot of enterpriseyness (in fact, all of it in the country!) and the like. < 1280681406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: London is not a regular city. < 1280681418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well nor is Stockholm around here < 1280681419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: London is /fucking huge/ by anyone's standards. < 1280681428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greater London has /7,556,900 people/. < 1280681434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Stockholm is fucking huge by Swedish standards! < 1280681439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In just 1,572 km^2. < 1280681457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Icelandic people must lack words to describe the size of london < 1280681475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thousand thousand thousand thousand thousand thousand thousand thousand Reykjavík." < 1280681480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sorry, how many thousands was that?" < 1280681486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be bothered to count < 1280681499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, scientific notation for the win < 1280681588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should download those Afghan documents in case they get taken down. < 1280681598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although they've gotta be on a billion torrents by now. < 1280681606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "This document, released by WikiLeaks on February 18th 2010 at 19:00 UTC, describes meetings between embassy chief Sam Watson (CDA) and members of the Icelandic government, together with British Ambassador Ian Whiting." < 1280681623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So much for supporting the Icelandic government for the Modern Media Initiative :D < 1280681629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and London represents about 81% of the entire Swedish population (based on your figure and wikipedia's figure for the Swedish population) < 1280681648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :London is basically a tiny country. :P < 1280681670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This (Finland) is a pretty empty place too, though the Helsinki metropolitan area is approaching something reasonably city-like in most scales; there's a tiny bit over a million in what's counted as the "urban area", and something like 1.3 million in those regions where 10 % or more of people have their jobs in Helsinki. < 1280681682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would like Iceland, apart from the language < 1280681702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language is pretty beautiful though. < 1280681711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You have... things and people and other cities, though. < 1280681715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but learning it? not a chance < 1280681724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate larger cities. a town on about 20000 is quite nice < 1280681726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# U.S. Embassy profiles on Icelandic PM, Foreign Minister, Ambassador" < 1280681738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you /sure/ Iceland decided that initiative because of Wikileaks? :D < 1280681757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where I am is quite a nice town. < 1280681768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11,139 people. < 1280681770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is a bit ... empty. < 1280681774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, I read a few news articles and watched a youtube interview of Assange from 2009 < 1280681777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing much you can do at all, and few people. < 1280681782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was that youtube video that made me look this up < 1280681786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where he talked about it < 1280681787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexham < 1280681792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it was from December 2009 < 1280681812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Abbey is a bit creepy. < 1280681818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iceland has a very nice ranking on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density list -- 232nd, in a list of 239. < 1280681827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1280681837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Fucking Greenland! < 1280681849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Australia is cheating. < 1280681856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that number is not very representative, I mean it varies hugely between different parts of most countries < 1280681861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway and Finland both are out of the top-200, but Sweden's in (194th). < 1280681862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Australia is totally dense in all the places where /there's actually any people/ :P < 1280681881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than just three people playing digeredoos or however you spell it per square million kilometers. < 1280681887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having some kind of graph showing distribution of it would be nice, I admit I have to work a bit on what exactly to show < 1280681895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell yeah, Macau < 1280681896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's representative of the fraction of people in the country and area of the country, nothing more, nothing less. < 1280681897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a map with color coding for density is obvious < 1280681904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wanted a x/y style graph < 1280681918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macau has 18,534.247 people per square kilometre < 1280681921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kilometre. < 1280681923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beat that. < 1280681946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: It is only 29.2 km^2.) < 1280681949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Sweden is very very unevenly distributed < 1280681957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, holy shit, Monaco is only 1.95 km^2. So what do they have apart from the Formula 1 track? < 1280681968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is very unevenly distributed. Well, except places like Monaco. < 1280681971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in north Sweden you can go for miles without getting a GSM signal (unless you have Telia) < 1280681992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why Telia? < 1280681994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and telia is only because the govt (used to?) own a large part of their shares < 1280681998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1280681998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was getting to that :P < 1280682031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"iPhone 4: Nu förändras allt. Igen." < 1280682035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden is really bad at making things sound elegant. < 1280682042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they used to be a completely state owned thing. But then there was that rage for making govt stuff private companies during the 1990s < 1280682043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost as bad as German. < 1280682044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Swedish < 1280682051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We had that! < 1280682059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, Thatcher. < 1280682060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now everything changes. Again." < 1280682062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thatcher. < 1280682064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "iPhone 4: Nu förändras allt. Igen." <-- "Now everything change. Again." < 1280682067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait ... that doesn't work. < 1280682070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think You *can* make that sound good < 1280682077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like the worst slogan ever. < 1280682083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1280682087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think Telia invented it < 1280682090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err typo < 1280682091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't appear on Apple's site. < 1280682094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, it does < 1280682098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This changes everything. Again." < 1280682108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly better than "Now everything changes. Again." < 1280682112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, telia managed to say that maemo was a browser in their desc for n900 < 1280682113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280682119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it tells you /what/ is doing the changing. < 1280682152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's "Nyt kaikki muuttuu. Taas." (which is very close to "Now everything changes. Again.") on Sonera's (the Finnish iPhone exclusivity-holder) site. < 1280682159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Apple finally did what they should have done instead of the Mighty Mouse, and released their laptop touchpad as a standalone device. < 1280682162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that really so hard? < 1280682162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Sonera? < 1280682168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TeliaSonera. < 1280682169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it TeliaSonera these days? Actually < 1280682170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1280682174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was getting to that < 1280682179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DO I KNOW THAT. < 1280682180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they merged or something < 1280682181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sonera in finland < 1280682182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1280682183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sonera.fi/ < 1280682188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The brand's still called Sonera. < 1280682189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so {Telia, Sonera} are brands of TeliaSonera < 1280682190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm and telia in Sweden < 1280682202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, on stuff like the SIM cards and such it says Telia < 1280682208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The corporation's official name has Telia in it, I believe. < 1280682236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe they use TeliaSonera for there tire1 stuff < 1280682251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there might be also a company called "Sonera" still; corporate ownership is a jungle. < 1280682262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tier* < 1280682269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# Fontvieille was added as fourth ward, a newly constructed area reclaimed from the sea (in the 1970s)" < 1280682275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, we deserve more space! RECLAIM THE SEA. < 1280682276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do I always mix up tire and tier < 1280682277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Monaco) < 1280682283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.teliasonera.com/Markets-and-Brands/ lists that Telia, Halebop (in Sweden) and Sonera, TeleFinland (in Finland) are "majority-owned companies" of TeliaSonera. < 1280682316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, halebop is the so-called low price brand < 1280682325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's TeleFinland. < 1280682327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note: for statistical purposes, the wards of Monaco are further subdivided into 173 city blocks (îlots)" < 1280682329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK < 1280682333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS LESS THAN 2 KM^2 < 1280682339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only web support. And when I calculated on the costs, telia turned out cheaper < 1280682341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW CAN YOU SUBDIVIDE IT INTO 6 FUCKING REGIONS < 1280682343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how ironic < 1280682344 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought halebop was exclusively pre-paid cards? < 1280682346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN SUBDIVIDE THOSE INTO 173 < 1280682351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the so-called "obnoxious phone sales" brand. < 1280682354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each îlot must be like < 1280682361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one square millimetre < 1280682361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was due to sucky student discounts for halebop and better ones for telia < 1280682369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, nop < 1280682375 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1280682389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.tele.fi/ < 1280682393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The person scares me. < 1280682396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the mouse. < 1280682406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.halebop.se/start < 1280682411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The woman scares me. < 1280682411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh gods, the guy. You should see the animated commercials. < 1280682417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also every other drawing. < 1280682434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Thanks to the power of YouTube, I can. < 1280682438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it seems you can. < 1280682449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the "skeittimummo" one for starters. < 1280682449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is it as bad as that ISP... I think it is bredbandsbolaget or perhaps comhem? They use some animated figure too < 1280682450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA-xPfKnlFc < 1280682451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1280682454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at olsner for help < 1280682470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that you selected the right one independently, too. < 1280682476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bredbandsbolaget are the only Swedish ISP to offer 100 Mb/s internet, I think. < 1280682477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I Know that. < 1280682478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know that < 1280682480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know that. < 1280682492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRYFwX-H3nY A 3D one. < 1280682492 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I dunno < 1280682519 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't watch television so I wouldn't have seen any such adverts < 1280682521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ooh, fancy. < 1280682526 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: plenty others do too < 1280682552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tele2 use a sheep. as a stupid play on sheep and cheap. which aren't even pronounced the same way, but do happen to sound quite close if you aren't good at English, due to Swedish missing one of those sound variants < 1280682553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1280682564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have a TV either, but I've still seen those commercials here and there; horrible. < 1280682586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Area Man[...] < 1280682624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA-xPfKnlFc <-- oh god. What a failure < 1280682640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't watch TV. Could be as bad here. Don't know < 1280682642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone listened to an HDCD? < 1280682642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's supposed to be "hip", you see. < 1280682652 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have comhem 100/10 right now, used to have bahnhof before I moved here (which was technically 100/10 but they didn't seem to actually limit the upload) < 1280682679 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280682695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that incomprehensible ad about cars. VW I think < 1280682713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of that. But worse < 1280682726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volkswagen adverts tend to be a bit strange. < 1280682736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wasn't there something about pimp your car < 1280682737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1280682742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody listened to an HDCD? < 1280682748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is an HDCD? < 1280682776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some patented extension to Redbook stuffing more quality in there, some tricks to get 20 bits of signal out of 16 bit samples it seems. < 1280682780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now owned by Microsoft. < 1280682802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 20 bits out of 16? Go ask CSI for that < 1280682805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing some piracy; one of the rips is from the HDCD, so I'm just wondering whether it's worthwhile at all. < 1280682805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible < 1280682805 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280682810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean compressed < 1280682812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1280682813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1280682813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HDCD encodes the equivalent of 20 bits worth of data in a 16-bit digital audio signal by using custom dithering, audio filters, and some reversible amplitude and gain encoding; Peak Extend, which is a reversible soft limiter and Low Level Range Extend, which is a reversible gain on low-level signals. There is thus a benefit at the expense of a very minor increase in noise.[2][3][4][5] < 1280682813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HDCD encoding places a control signal in the least significant bit of a small subset of the 16-bit Red Book audio samples (a technique known as in-band signaling). The HDCD decoder in the consumer's CD or DVD player, if present, responds to the signal. If no decoder is present, the disc will be played as a regular CD. < 1280682814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In itself, the use of the first bit in the dithered least significant bit stream will degrade the sound quality on a non-HDCD player by decreasing the signal-to-noise ratio but only by a minuscule amount. HDCD Peak Extension, if chosen in HDCD mastering, will apply compression to the peaks which will be audible in playback on a non-HDCD system which does not apply the appropriate expansion curve. < 1280682835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, based on the description it's more like 20 bits of dynamic range than 20 bits of precision. < 1280682839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280682842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god... < 1280682859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing I haven't run into them. I hate noise < 1280682868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have golden ears. < 1280682876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't hear it. < 1280682876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and I doubt I could hear the difference between 16 and 20 bits < 1280682892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe, if AnMaster is horrified by that, wait until he finds out what psychoacoustic encoders do. (I bet he thinks he can distinguish LAME -V2 from FLAC...) < 1280682927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I don't. I do however think I can hear a difference between your average non-lame encoder and flac :P < 1280682950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you mean the original one, or that awful one that I forget its name. < 1280682980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubtfully you could then hear the difference between 15 bits and 16 bits (w.r.t. added noise), especially if they're being clever with how it alters the least significant bit, and it sounds like they are. < 1280683014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why don't I just rip my own copy of the album. < 1280683020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. I don't have a CD drive. < 1280683071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I guess I am too resistant to change; I will just download the regular FLAC rip. < 1280683082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so you installed linux with usb stick? < 1280683084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...although the HDCD version does have more seeders... < 1280683086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pre-installed? < 1280683088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or netboot? < 1280683129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm pretty sure you can play an ISO < 1280683130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Actually, I had no USB stick to hand! I used unetbootin -- random Linux ISO to USB stick + if on Windows USB bootloader installed, program, very useful -- to extract the Ubuntu ISO to the Windows drive (it can do that). < 1280683137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nothing else, by using loop mount < 1280683140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I then booted up with the Unetbootin option in the Windows bootloader on next boot. < 1280683143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err not mount < 1280683147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1280683152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :losetup still < 1280683153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And voilà: it booted Ubuntu from the Windows drive. < 1280683168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partitioning was fun, since it saw the CD-ROM drive weirdly as it was on another partition, virtual and stuff. < 1280683177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had to do some lazy, forced unmounting, then remounting it so the installer didn't break. < 1280683179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it worked! < 1280683209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, had to work on first try, I mean. you get one chance, loading the iso into ram. And then once you overwrite it, it has to work < 1280683222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hm? < 1280683234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I failed the first time and even ended up with a GRUB 2 without any files, which could do nothing. < 1280683234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, unless you are dual booting? < 1280683238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually I fixed it with a USB stick. < 1280683240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, dual booting. < 1280683247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This laptop helpfully came with a "data" partition on half the disk. < 1280683249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I just used that. < 1280683250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD @ that fix < 1280683267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data partition, huh < 1280683274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, I used Unetbootin on the really shitty computer to get a USB stick with GRUB on it. < 1280683280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I then used GRUB to chainload the Windows bootloader. < 1280683285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1280683287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once booted in, I used Unetbootin again, and this time did it right. < 1280683294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, unbelievably, it worked. < 1280683299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, separate OS/data partition. < 1280683300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like /home partition. < 1280683305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But more manual. < 1280683311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1280683318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large drive? < 1280683327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, why do I have six and a half gigabytes of swap? < 1280683338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 250 GB total. < 1280683352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, < 1280683368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 419 MB of what I think is some restore partition, 125 GB unused stock Toshiba-branded Windows 7, 118 GB ext4 Ubuntu, 6.4 GB inexplicable swap. < 1280683387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118 GB, won't last long < 1280683390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't for me at least < 1280683394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider that this laptop has a battery that lasts almost as long as a netbook's, is basically as light as a MacBook Air, < 1280683395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't "play an ISO" if you mean a regular .iso image of an audio CD, because regular .iso images are made of the 2048-byte data sectors, while audio CDs put 2352 bytes of audio data per frame, with less error-correction code. < 1280683412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a wonderful screen that is glossy yet this is unnoticeable, but since it's not matte it's usable in daylight, and very high dpi, < 1280683420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a good keyboard for a laptop < 1280683421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1280683425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm happy. < 1280683459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wouldn't that be reflected in the iso file? < 1280683490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm voluntarily using this laptop instead of my iMac. So, yeah, I like it. < 1280683493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it have fluid drains from the keyboard? < 1280683506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Wouldn't you just tell me not to spill things, anyway? < 1280683507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a trackpoint? < 1280683514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gee, you shouldn't be drinking near the computer." < 1280683519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but the trackpad is good and I'm just using a mouse. < 1280683534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well I would avoid spilling things. It however nice to know that just in case, it is there < 1280683539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't drink near computer < 1280683540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said it's perfect. But all that list I gave you are things my laptop has and yours doesn't. :P < 1280683550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I drink near the computer, I'm just not in the habit of spilling things. < 1280683563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, there's a protective layer of some sort underneath the keyboard, obviously; so you could just drain it manually if you really did spill something. < 1280683568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, nice to know just in case, at university and such, Someone else might have a water bottle nearby < 1280683619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like there's a circuit board directly underneath. < 1280683619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how many express card slots? < 1280683625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 0. Thank god. < 1280683630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why is that? < 1280683634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said it was your ideal laptop, just that it was mine. < 1280683644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, because there's no metadata in the "file format", if you can call it that; it's just a dump of the data portion of a data CD. You couldn't even have multiple tracks in a .iso image. You can of course have a bit-exact audio CD image (in the .bin/.cue format, or some others), but it won't be a "ISO image" in the usual sense. < 1280683646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, I don't use the express card slot < 1280683650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: PC Card esque things are a bit ... awful. < 1280683651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is nice to have, just in case < 1280683660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why? < 1280683662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so it's not even that big a deal. But! < 1280683668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sides are all filled up. < 1280683685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't sacrifice a display port, one of the four USB ports, the Ethernet port, etc. for it. < 1280683689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe that is... < 1280683693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that? < 1280683696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe an SD card slot. < 1280683711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one useless feature on my laptop: softmodem. There is a modem port at the back. I don't know why anyone still puts that in < 1280683716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ExpressCard is so confusing; there's all kinds of /34 or /54 things, what's up with the slashes. I grew up with PCMCIA/CardBus, and it was good enough for me. Get off my lawn! < 1280683766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc I have one express card slot and one PC Card. Or something like that. When looking into the slots the connectors are different at the back anyway < 1280683821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, a better use for that area would actually be re-arranging the internal components to have a larger battery pack instead < 1280683824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, they would be. ExpressCard/54 and CardBus/"PC Card" have the same width, but the PC Card connector is full-width. < 1280683829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be heavier though < 1280683888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, just checked, bottom one full width and top one less than full width < 1280683920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how many usb ports? < 1280683930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four. < 1280683935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two on left, two on right. < 1280683939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, firewire? < 1280683942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None. < 1280683945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1280683956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha, wait, I don't give a shit. < 1280683964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, displayport? < 1280683970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280683970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you said you liked it < 1280683972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280683976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least, /some/ digital display connector. < 1280683981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're so hard to tell apart these days. < 1280683996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, which one? isn't there some marking at it indicating which one < 1280684004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. A rectangle. < 1280684008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Representing a screen. < 1280684020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I have about the vga port on this < 1280684038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the DP one has a stylised D < 1280684042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's especially hard now that they have three different sizes of standard HDMI ports. < 1280684052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ... why? < 1280684069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably they were jealous of USB, which also has "normal", "mini" and "micro" variants. < 1280684080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, check xrandr. It just might tell you something useful < 1280684080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The three HDMI ports are also normal, mini and micro. < 1280684101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except mine tells me that VGA1, LVDS1, HDMI1, DP1 and DP2 all exist < 1280684103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HDMI1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) < 1280684105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where only LVDS is connected < 1280684108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DP1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) < 1280684108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't trust it < 1280684108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DP2 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) < 1280684110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And VGA1. < 1280684111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah. < 1280684114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280684115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LVDS1 has the resolution list. < 1280684117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the others don't. < 1280684119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1280684123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LVDS would be internal < 1280684130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other would contain external, if connected < 1280684153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't list monitor resolutions for unconnected monitors, obviously < 1280684156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1366 x 768, maximum 8192 x 8192 < 1280684160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8192 x 8192, fuck yeah < 1280684166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will that fry my screen if I try it? :D < 1280684179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is X support or something < 1280684180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1280684182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe GPU < 1280684187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get that on the screen < 1280684189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it downscale it for my screen? < 1280684191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just burp. < 1280684206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, video mode not supported error *probably*, but who knows < 1280684218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you might get that old style scrollable virtual screen thing of X < 1280684220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not on the actual resolution list, it most probably won't do anything. < 1280684220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that? < 1280684222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280684241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my desktop I get: Screen 0: minimum 320 x 240, current 1680 x 1050, maximum 1680 x 1050 < 1280684244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange < 1280684248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I know the card supports more < 1280684250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used more on it < 1280684251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I guess changing the virtual screen size is possible too; I just thought xrandr only handles the physical state of outputs. < 1280684273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I don't think the xrandr thing is loaded < 1280684274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1280684278 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-4.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280684285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no invert stuff and such < 1280684303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, not in the modules list < 1280684307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, no support for rotations? < 1280684316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is this the nvidia binary driver? < 1280684325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes < 1280684334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has horrible xrandr support. < 1280684340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280684371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, okay. but until noveau supports 3D well enough for my needs I'm stuck on it. < 1280684401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some sort of attempted support that if you pass Option "RandRRotation" to the nvidia driver, it'll try to fake it so that you can set the orientation with it. < 1280684418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1280684421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I tell what card I have again? I don't know much about this system. < 1280684440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, lspci, Xorg.0.log, dmesg, lshw ? < 1280684440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: On the other hand, "Workstation RGB or CI overlay visuals will function at lower performance and the video overlay will not be available when RandRRotation is enabled." < 1280684446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glxinfo too. < 1280684449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that < 1280684459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 7600 GT/PCI/SSE2 < 1280684468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdpyinfo perhaps < 1280684471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1280684496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has even been reported, although apparently without historical documentation, that Adolf Hitler was influenced by concave hollow-Earth ideas and sent an expedition in an unsuccessful attempt to spy on the British fleet by aiming infrared cameras up into the sky[7] (Wagner, 1999).[8] < 1280684532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a shame is that good old "ethtool --identify" ("initiates adapter-specific action intended to enable an operator to easily identify the adapter by sight. Typically this involves blinking one or more LEDs on the specific ethernet port") isn't -- I think; I haven't really made a survey out of this -- implemented by many modernish drivers. < 1280684533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have no such line in my glxinfo. < 1280684557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "lspci" pretty often works too. < 1280684565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Mobile Intel® GM45 Express Chipset GEM 20091221 2009Q4 < 1280684566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL vendor string: Tungsten Graphics, Inc < 1280684566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Mobile Intel® GM45 Express Chipset GEM 20091221 2009Q4 < 1280684567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there we go. < 1280684575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So /that's/ why the graphics are so good on this. < 1280684575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is tungsten graphics? < 1280684586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the Mesa developers, I think < 1280684587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hey you have same as mine < 1280684591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1280684597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great card, innit. < 1280684601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not really < 1280684604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mesa 3D Graphics Library Developer(s) VMware (previously Tungsten Graphics)[1] < 1280684609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, might have improved recently < 1280684612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, I like it. < 1280684615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works great with Linux. < 1280684617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely great. < 1280684633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tungsten Graphics apparently also maintain DRI. < 1280684636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it (used to?) render some games incorrectly. But I haven't tried them since jaunty < 1280684640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stuff might have changed < 1280684647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* I hate light pollution. < 1280684660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Light_pollution_country_versus_city.png < 1280684681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I wouldn't give to live in somewhere with as wonderful skies as the top image but with, you know, modern conveniences. < 1280684731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and, last I tried (again under jaunty) my laptop failed to drive my desktop monitor at full res, It supported lower and higher but not the same as native < 1280684750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What resolution? < 1280684758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Around here it looks like the lower pic, except more orange. (We have lots of low-pressure sodium-vapor streetlights.) < 1280684761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 1680x1050 < 1280684820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1280684844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads the HDCD rip. < 1280684846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not, I guess. < 1280684850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the only one with enough seeders. < 1280684883 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the info say if it's done by actually decoding the HDCD signal, or just out of the HDCD CD? < 1280684899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It sounds like software support for HDCD isn't exactly widespread, since, you know, patented.) < 1280684910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Decoded with DSP. < 1280684915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By dbpoweramp. < 1280684922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Into a 24-bit container, with 4 empty bits. < 1280684925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Padding, that is. < 1280684941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, well, that's good, then. < 1280684988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of blab in the comments about how zomg-amazing the drums are but, uh, I have a feeling they're full of shit. < 1280684996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I have a 24-bit soundcard. How could I check? < 1280685082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone still use cdparanoia these days, by the way? I like that little program. < 1280685086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, it's still developed. < 1280685106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, "CDDA Paranoia". :P < 1280685120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Cdparanoia is a Compact Disc Digital Audio (CDDA) Digital Audio Extraction (DAE) tool, commonly known on the net as a 'ripper'.]] < 1280685139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your laptop does gbit ethernet? < 1280685139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err... well, you could try "aplay -l" and then looking in the internet for the chipset name it gives. I'm not sure if there's any tool that directly would tell you what it managed to open or not. < 1280685163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably. "How can I check?" < 1280685163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does anyone still use cdparanoia these days, by the way? I like that little program. <-- erhm, me? < 1280685182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just "HDA Intel". < 1280685186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, lspci | grep Ethernet < 1280685191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HD, so presumably 24-bit. < 1280685191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have it in the name < 1280685195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HD Audio and what not. < 1280685197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetLink BCM5787M Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 02) < 1280685204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Atheros AR8132 / L1c Gigabit Ethernet Adapter (rev c0) < 1280685205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280685209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1280685229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hardware based on Intel HD Audio specifications is capable of delivering 192-kHz 32-bit quality for two channels, and 96-kHz 32-bit for up to eight channels." Although of course that says nothing about my hardware. < 1280685236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, as of 2008[update], most audio hardware manufacturers do not implement the full high-end specification, especially 32-bit sampling resolution." < 1280685248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN MY DAY WE HAD AC'97. < 1280685250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we *liked* it. < 1280685259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try playing out your fancy 24-bit file, and then checking "pactl list"'s horribly long output as to what is the "Sample Specification" for the output sink it's going to. < 1280685266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. intel hda in my laptop too. Crappier sound than sb live 5.1 in desktop < 1280685273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially for low notes < 1280685278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have crappy laptop speakers. So I don't care. < 1280685284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes this 24-bit thing doubly pointless, but, uh. < 1280685284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I mean <70 Hz < 1280685287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the speakers aren't crappy. < 1280685293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're very good for laptop speakers; very good. < 1280685302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course this assumes pulse would properly grok that the hardware supports 24-bit audio and not down-convert it.) < 1280685304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the speakers, they are crappy in my laptop. I compared with moving headphones < 1280685308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so good on the bass, yes... but still very good on the bass, compared to the tinny crap you get. < 1280685311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between laptop and desktop < 1280685319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they're crappy, but all laptop speakers are. I'm relatively happy with these ones. < 1280685321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit too quiet though. < 1280685338 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280685354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone remember when Plextor was THE drive to get for audio extraction? < 1280685361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *my* laptop has a potentiometer-based hardware volume control knob, which makes a delightful low-fi noise when you twiddle it. < 1280685369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just rebrand other people's drives now. :( < 1280685379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha < 1280685382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, I look so epically bad < 1280685397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (It's that pentium-100-or-so I don't really use.) < 1280685401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look so epically bad < 1280685415 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, sorry for the double message < 1280685434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: pics or it didn't happen < 1280685441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no thx < 1280685444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess there is no "event" to "happen" < 1280685448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280685449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless we're talking in the sense of "time still existing" < 1280685454 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suffice to say I'm dressed in a suit, which looks good < 1280685464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have a pink tie that I can't get to look quite right < 1280685464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is a bit late, but yes, I do use cdparanoia, for some small values of "use". (We don't really have that many audio CDs.) < 1280685489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason to buy audio CDs is to get a good rip. < 1280685496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's pink. 'Nuff said. < 1280685503 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: precisely < 1280685515 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could dip it in ink? < 1280685529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? Dip the pink < 1280685530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tie in ink? < 1280685536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't it sink? < 1280685560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to be pink < 1280685560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's my particular kink. < 1280685569 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a perfectly serviceable blue tie here too < 1280685574 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that just wouldn't be the same < 1280685597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, how do I strip images from a FLAC file? < 1280685600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this bug however causes mayhem for me currently: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/524281 < 1280685609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's your kink? Well I do fink < 1280685610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/however// < 1280685616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more than a little rinky-dink-dink. < 1280685695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just compile Amarok 1. < 1280685702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the feature of not sucking. < 1280685752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. There is also DeaDBeeF and Aqualung to consider... < 1280685775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could run Foobar in wine. :) < 1280685797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Incidentally, the micro-HDMI connector is about the same size as micro-USB (2.8 x 6.4 mm, actually even a bit smaller), but it still has the full 19 pins of a regular HDMI connector. That's some seriously tiny pins. < 1280685829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1280685839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is wrong with the normal size? < 1280685840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Foobar in Wine isn't such a bad idea. < 1280685856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, putting a db on a phone seems about useless < 1280685863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on laptop standard size fits neatly < 1280685864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a db? < 1280685882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, dp* < 1280685888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in displayport < 1280685894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... But if I'm using Foobar in Wine, why not just use DeaDBeeF? < 1280685897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well same goes for hdmi < 1280685902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fits neatly on a laptop too < 1280685903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's very much not useless: you can watch your favourite movies on-the-go on the hotel TV. (Okay, so you'd probably also have that laptop, but still. And I've been traveling around with just the N900 lately.) < 1280685918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate hotels. < 1280685927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah I'm not the target audience I see < 1280685959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, AnMaster doesn't watch entertainment. < 1280685990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: How many Prolog programmers does it take to change light bulb? < 1280685991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Yes. < 1280685991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: How many Mercury programmers does it take to change light bulb? < 1280685991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Four. One to change the light bulb and three to distract the nurses. < 1280685998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I watch on youtube sometimes. I find the stuff on TV pretty much shit < 1280686014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate how they have a nice TV (with reasonable speakers) I could hook up the phone into in a hotel room, and then they completely screw any possibility of that by (a) not having any control buttons on the TV set, and (b) by providing only a "for dummies" variant of the TV remote, which doesn't make it possible to select any of the (four or so) external inputs of the TV. < 1280686014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many bad american sitcoms < 1280686050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, your phone has hdmi? < 1280686072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but there's a (blurry) composite-video/RCA-audio thing. < 1280686080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Carry around a universal remote. :P < 1280686146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINE is so ugly. < 1280686156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The phone is a universal remote (it has a IR diode), but those TV models are always some sort of weird "business purposes only" models, and I can never find any lirc remote-protocol-files for them. (Of course a real universal remote would probably have some working codes; I don't usually have enough patience to start downloading files for non-matching models.) < 1280686206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I hear real universal remotes have nifty "point it at the TV, then press a button when something happens" auto-detection thingies. < 1280686232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought one that required you to hold down a button for like a minute then press something. < 1280686236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a fucking bitch-ass shitter. < 1280686237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1280686318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the what? I wasn't looking, and someone has added to this N900 QtIrreco tool a "download a remote from DB" choice. < 1280686357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the "DB" it uses seems to be pretty tiny. Phew. I was afraid something was going to non-suck. < 1280686398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's surprisingly many air-conditioning systems listed; I didn't even know those have remote control in general. < 1280686486 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280686529 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: g2g... follow me @fallensn0w at twitter < 1280686536 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O! Now I have corrected all problems with Icoruma->TeX program, except for overfull hboxes in tables. < 1280686537 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280686717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Here's one way you could try for 24-bit sound: (with the volume way down) "aplay -L", then "aplay -D xxx -f S24_LE any.random.file", where xxx is a name from -L's list -- it'll try to play the file as raw audio data, and (at least here) say "Sample format non available; Available formats: [list]". (I'm just not completely sure I trust it, since it says that my hardware will play S16_LE and S32_LE, which sounds suspicious.) < 1280686776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea might be to make it calculate the minimum width of a paragraph box for only one word in a line, and the minimum width of all the words are on one line, and then insert a glue that stretches between those two widths? < 1280686781 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will this work? < 1280686845 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I will have to make it calculate the entire table before placing it on the page, similar to how I have it calculate the entire document before it ships it out < 1280687033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You know, none of us have any idea what you're trying to do unless you tell us ... < 1280687060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I thought I did tell you ... < 1280687068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you did. < 1280687071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What part of this do you not understand? < 1280687074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got lost in fizzie's messages. Sorry. < 1280687101 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie only sent one message in between! < 1280687130 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already know my idea is awesome and works so i don't really care about you ppl's opinion < 1280687179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ladies and Gentlemen, < 1280687181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I present to you < 1280687185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world Linux UI design < 1280687185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVER < 1280687187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/Ru2kI.png < 1280687190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fizzie: < 1280687195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world ever, totally < 1280687195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the UI is okay, with a different theme. < 1280687197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the VISUALS. < 1280687213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here an expert in 2-structures < 1280687218 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on) < 1280687231 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "world Linux UI design" mean? < 1280687251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/// < 1280687258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst UI < 1280687260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not world, oops < 1280687283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s//l/ s//s/ < 1280687295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1280687297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t != d < 1280687302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not a typo < 1280687310 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a finger typo that is < 1280687325 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether it is the worst or not I don't know, but what I do know is I would make the UI entirely differently than that < 1280687328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you don't have those anyway being a supertyper < 1280687343 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as the feature set < 1280687513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I do make tons of typos. < 1280687519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just correct them in less than a second. < 1280687531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280687534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have lots of thinkos, however, as I type thoughts as they are formed. I imagine most people type /after/ thinking ... < 1280687541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they say that's bad < 1280687564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually think while typing too, but i both type and think rather slow so < 1280687573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so what? < 1280687574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1280687625 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: most people think after typing :D < 1280687634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1280687684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type fast, and often I do correct them in less than a second < 1280687711 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I type much faster when copying from something I have previously written on paper than when I am writing something new < 1280687747 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because when I write something new, I have to think of how I should write it down to make it meaningful and stuff like that < 1280688000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write new thoughts quicker than copying. < 1280688075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm playing the file; what command should I do, did you say? < 1280688196 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am different because when I have new thoughts I have to think of how to write it. Writing new thoughts is not that much slower for me, though, than copying from a paper < 1280688202 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is slightly slower < 1280688732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These speakers could do with more volume. < 1280688736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just compress everything :P < 1280688809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's something that's Very Hard To Rip: Hidden tracks in the pregap of track 1 -- can be listened to by rewinding to "track 0" on most CD players. < 1280688815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But many, many CD-ROM drives simply cannot do it. < 1280688865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Come to think of it, you could just use "mplayer -v" and check the messages. On my system, "mplayer -ao alsa -format s24le -v blah" says "[AO_ALSA] Format s24le is not supported by hardware, trying default" and builds a filter chain; s16le and s32le come out of the hardware. (I guess it's possible it fakes the 32-bit at some layer, but I don't think it should if you use a directly-hardwarey ALSA device.) < 1280688897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah well, it sounds alright; I wouldn't be able to tell on these speakers, anyway. < 1280688915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had a proper chair and some good speakers plugged in, I would be content. Yes, with the 13" screen; I've no problems with it. < 1280688931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact with excessive screen space I always get a little scared, what can I do with all this space that will do it justice and such. :P < 1280688931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, the earlier command: pactl list | grep 'Sample Specification' < 1280688949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a bunch of lines with "16" in them. < 1280688949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's something more-than-16-bits going on there, it's probably playing with many bits. < 1280688950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh Well. < 1280688966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_albums_with_tracks_hidden_in_the_pregap < 1280688975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :List of albums that are almost impossible to rip properly < 1280689013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone hilighted me < 1280689029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about sanity. < 1280689135 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1280689410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: The spectrum analyser bars you see in music players. < 1280689415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're useless and distracting. < 1280689509 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: Music players with GUIs. < 1280689513 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're useless and distracting. < 1280689528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely those bars are there for fun? So surely they're disableable? < 1280689547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, one does not imply the other :/ < 1280689564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun, pah. < 1280689572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stick to super cow powers. < 1280689583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They're not useless if you're trying to navigate a ton of music... < 1280689587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so I suppose you use mpdc? < 1280689596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, lemme guess < 1280689601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You manually play the audio files < 1280689615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mplayer + bash = my music player < 1280689635 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I navigate my music library with cd. < 1280689635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought so. I'd elaborate why th-- but that would be elaborating, finishing that sentence; so I won't. < 1280689636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Apparently (source: interwebs) even if your hardware supports 24-bit audio, if you're playing through pulse, the PulseAudio daemon needs to be configured (via /etc/pulse/daemon.conf) to have a default sample format of something higher than s16le, otherwise everything will be clipped to that. (And after that everything you play will be internally converted to that many bits, adding to the resource drain. The same thing if you bump things up to 96 kHz or s < 1280689637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omething.) < 1280689655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Playing through ALSA (though Pulse is running.) < 1280689662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does Pulse override ALSA? < 1280689684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default configuration makes the default alsa device direct things to PulseAudio, I think. < 1280689709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh. Oh well. < 1280689727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, with laptop speakers you probably shouldn't care. < 1280689732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even understand why people like PulseAudio. < 1280689735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has absolutely no ... features. < 1280689757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PulseAudio is an integral part of all relevant modern Linux distributions" < 1280689763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By defining "relevant" to mean "ones that use PulseAudio". < 1280689776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So that you can get that "ding" sound when you do something wrong on top of the music you have playing on the background. (Discounting for a moment ALSA's own software mixer.) < 1280689793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discounting the thing that already does a thing, it can do a thing! < 1280689793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the "bep-drweeedle" sounds when someone sends you an IM message. < 1280689808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another pet peeve: UI sounds. < 1280689811 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bep-drweeedle" < 1280689812 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow :P < 1280689816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the IM message notifications are quite useful, but. < 1280689824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really sound like "bep-drweeedle". :P < 1280689834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like "BAdum!". < 1280689856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When first adopted by the distributions PulseAudio developer Lennart Poettering described it as "the software that currently breaks your audio".[6] Poettering later claimed that "Ubuntu didn't exactly do a stellar job. They didn't do their homework" in adopting PulseAudio[7] for Ubuntu "Hardy Heron" (8.04), a problem which was then improved with subsequent Ubuntu releases.[8] However, Poettering is still not happy with Ubuntu's integration of PulseAudio.[9] < 1280689863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, even the PulseAudio dev thinks Ubuntu's is especially crap. < 1280689906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: A friend of mine once did a Doom .wad file; for the door-opening and door-closing sounds, he substituted himself saying, in a laconic tone of voice, respectively, "clink-schloink" and "schlink-cloink". For some reason it was hilarious. < 1280689939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280689962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to like an online station-like thingy called PulsRadio... < 1280689990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But the VISUALS. <-- visuals? < 1280689991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puls'Radio - Non-Stop Dance And Trance Music - Web Radio Trance ... < 1280689991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - [ Translate this page ] < 1280689991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Webradio orientée musique électronique dancefloor. < 1280689991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.pulsradio.com/ - Cached - Similar < 1280689997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see my link < 1280690000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the visual appearance of it < 1280690007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the other, important part of the UI (functionality, which is fine) < 1280690012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that default theme! < 1280690023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, rewrite it in motif. Then there will be one worse < 1280690041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Did you CLICK the link? < 1280690051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/Ru2kI.png ? yes < 1280690062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Motif looks way better than that. < 1280690077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about xine? < 1280690079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and for music player comparisons; my current one is xmms2 and the "nyxmms2" CLI. The project is sadly a bit dead. < 1280690090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Bad, but... not /that/ bad. < 1280690098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyxmms2 or xmms2? < 1280690102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmms2 isn't really that dead afaik. < 1280690113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, mpd and xmms2 have the flaws that I didn't write them. < 1280690117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not *dead*, just sort of.. slowey. < 1280690121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is so bad about this one? The bg pattern is quite awful yes < 1280690133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and colour choices could be better < 1280690135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The colours, and the background. < 1280690137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but worst? no? < 1280690154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, but it did make me puke when I clicked on "default" theme after it started in "plain" theme (which is very very reasonable, GTK style). < 1280690156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what are the three sliders < 1280690160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is probably position < 1280690164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one could be volume < 1280690168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third one? < 1280690168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume, balance (I think), position. < 1280690171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balance because it's short and in the middle. < 1280690174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And next to volume. < 1280690184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike UIs where you have to hover the mouse to figure out what stuff is < 1280690184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in L/R channel balance. < 1280690193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMMS2's "AAC/MP4 (via faad2) and ASF/WMA (via ffmpeg) and libao output and whatnot" plugin developer's a friend, so I felt sort of obligated to try it out; it's passable. < 1280690196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least when there is no reason for it < 1280690220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can ffmpeg actually poop crap out to an audio device? To use the correct terminology. < 1280690222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not. < 1280690231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, why didn't I know of libao before? < 1280690264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libao? some audio library, iirc... But then there are more audio libraries than there are GUI toolkits these days < 1280690276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xiph.org's. < 1280690279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you Know It's Good. < 1280690282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what mplayer uses by default too. < 1280690291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1280690293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theora sucks, and aren't they behind it? < 1280690301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorbis is good yes < 1280690301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theora sucks, /but/ it was a Good Try. < 1280690305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theora is /old/. < 1280690308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280690312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :older than vorbis? < 1280690312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it was released it was /unbearable/. < 1280690316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they made it acceptable. < 1280690319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. But old. < 1280690324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was dormant when they got ahold of it. < 1280690329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how old is old? < 1280690333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they made it... you know, bad, but not terrible. < 1280690334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what alise thinks of VP8 < 1280690337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know. 2003 or something. < 1280690344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"libao" as in "audio output"; it's meant for cross-platform audio output; writes to files (in various formats) as well as platform-dependant audio-hardware things. < 1280690354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1280690354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's still not as good as H.264, and never will be. < 1280690358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 2003 isn't old < 1280690369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It is when the codec it's based on < 1280690370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1280690382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm how old is VP3 < 1280690387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, why do I feel so old suddenly -_- < 1280690387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VP3.1 was introduced in May 2000 followed three months later by the VP3.2 release,[11][12] which is the basis for Theora. < 1280690394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's old for /this stuff/. < 1280690404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I don't have a warped perception of time, I just have a context-dependent one. < 1280690407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2000, video encoding SUCKED. < 1280690414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1280690422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, remember .au? < 1280690424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for audio < 1280690427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's hard to make a format from then not suck. < 1280690434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't remember, but have seen since many times. < 1280690437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since it's been obsolete.) < 1280690459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you are too young yeah < 1280690471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wait, what about qt in around 2001 or so? < 1280690475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hey, now... already in 1998 we had "DivX ;-) 3.11 Alpha". < 1280690481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickTime I dealt with when it was horrible, horrible on Windows. < 1280690483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Still is, but, you know.) < 1280690488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, with a smilie? < 1280690491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1280690495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The smilie is part of the name, yes. < 1280690498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smiley* < 1280690511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DivX ;-) (not DivX) 3.11 Alpha and later 3.xx versions refers to a hacked version of the Microsoft MPEG-4 Version 3 video codec (not to be mistaken with MPEG-4 Part 3) from Windows Media Tools 4 codecs.[4][5] The video codec, which was actually not MPEG-4 compliant, was extracted around 1998 by French hacker Jerome Rota (also known as Gej) at Montpellier. The Microsoft codec originally required that the compressed output be put in an ASF file. It was alter < 1280690511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed to allow other containers such as Audio Video Interleave (AVI).[6] Rota hacked the Microsoft codec because newer versions of the Windows Media Player wouldn't play his video portfolio and résumé that were encoded with it. Instead of re-encoding his portfolio, Rota and German hacker Max Morice decided to reverse engineer the codec, which "took about a week".[7] < 1280690522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never dealt with qt on windows back then < 1280690528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did deal with it on mac < 1280690536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "DivX" brand is distinct from "DIVX" (Digital Video Express), an unrelated attempt by the now defunct U.S. retailer Circuit City to develop a video rental system requiring special discs and players.[1] The winking emoticon in the early "DivX ;-)" codec name was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the failed DIVX system. The DivX company then adopted the name of the popular DivX ;-) codec (which was not created by them), dropped the smiley and released DivX < 1280690536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.0, which was actually the first DivX version. (Note that DivX ;-) and DivX are separate products and are created by different people; the former is not an older version of the latter). The DivX name is its trademark.[2][3] It is pronounced DIV-ex. < 1280690542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean, myst for mac uses qt for the embedded animations and such < 1280690547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So note that DivX as you know it is NOT affiliated with, or based on, the old DivX ;-). < 1280690550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just stole the name. < 1280690554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is even older < 1280690576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never had the attention span for Myst. Gimme Monkey Island. < 1280690586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, ffmpeg + libao seems to be a way better solution than Xine and GStreamer. < 1280690589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't everything use it? < 1280690617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never played monkey island < 1280690622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I am not getting old myself; my Emacs font is really big. < 1280690624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not based on, but I remember videos from the time of the smiley. They're all "sort-of MPEG-4 except not" anyway. < 1280690629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and does it surprise you that I had the required attention span? < 1280690634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1280690638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, to solve it without walkthroughs < 1280690640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you've said you have severe ADHD. < 1280690645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I didn't. < 1280690651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you did. < 1280690654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said I had *light* ADHD < 1280690668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. I thought you said bad ADHD becoming light ADHD w/ Ritalin. < 1280690690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, also I said it in /msg under condition of keeping it there iirc. < 1280690696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1280690705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry; I didn't remember. < 1280690713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telling me things is usually a bad idea. :P < 1280690719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... < 1280690736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. myst was fun < 1280690739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Myst was nice; I got it as a birthday present when the Windows port was new, or at least new-ish. < 1280690749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked a lot better back then than it does when replayed today < 1280690770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you didn't noticed the dithering very much on an old performa (built in) CRT < 1280690782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was how everything looked on displays after all < 1280690796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CRT doesn't give a crystal clear picture like TFTs do < 1280690806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRTs don't* < 1280690866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw "Myst: Masterpiece Edition" somewhere in a bin; I'm a bit sorry that I didn't get it, but since I already had the original... (it has the graphics re-rendered as 24-bit bitmaps, as opposed to the 256-color palette+dithering ones; and also some works-better-in-newer-Windowses stuff). < 1280690900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, I run it in sheepshaver nowdays < 1280690908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? I actually *did* buy it? At least there's one of those tall-DVD-case-thingies in the shelf with "MYST: masterpiece edition" printed on it. < 1280690916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1280690919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, never played it? < 1280690922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BELIAL IS BACK < 1280690930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still needs a better name. < 1280690936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every graphic element has been upgraded to brilliant 24-bit color". < 1280690954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I... don't remember. I remember re-playing Myst not long ago, but I thought it was the old one, not this new one. < 1280690959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um. this sounds familiar. but no I can't locate wtf belial is < 1280690978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my vapourware music daemon < 1280690982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, time to replay yet again? < 1280690987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vapourware no more! Not another day I have to sleep at the unit: so I have time! < 1280690990 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I should do is combine features of ImageMagick and SoX in one program called "Image Exchange" and -density sets the sample rate. And to play a audio file backwards and with echo you can type in: imx file1.wav -flop +echo play: < 1280690992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: "Larger and higher quality movies and animations"; after all, the book-entering animation clips in original Myst were something like 160x120 pixels. < 1280691003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh btw for that image, if you can't correct white balance, it might be worth a try to just do vignetting < 1280691040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and perhaps try without exposure correction. It could be what is messing up the sky. Well I don't know how it is messed up so hard to tell.. < 1280691054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And: "Proprietary DigitalGuide™ help system assists players of every skill level" < 1280691065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, whaat? < 1280691093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some sort of built-in walkthrough, I guess. < 1280691094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need a walkthrough... use google to find something at ign or whatever < 1280691105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :built in ones is just... cheating < 1280691121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDX < 1280691122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*XD < 1280691126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember UHS. Anyone remember UHS? < 1280691129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1280691133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Universal Hint System. < 1280691137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that < 1280691138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I wrote a perl script to convert UHS files to a XML format. < 1280691141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd ask it a question about a game by clicking on it, and it'd give you a vague hint. < 1280691144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click again, more specific. < 1280691150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After -- I think on the fifth hint -- it told you outright. < 1280691162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program plus a few hint files for games could fit on one floppy. < 1280691163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, was this in the game or a separate product? < 1280691167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Separate product. < 1280691170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280691178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems it still exists. < 1280691180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.uhs-hints.com/ < 1280691194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but vague hint for an entire game... that doesn't work for most games < 1280691198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1280691201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one specific puzzle. < 1280691203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever. < 1280691205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280691216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inside the game it would have a bunch of little problems you might encounter, then you could just click to get more and more specific hints. < 1280691225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the most... tasteful hint system existing, with the discretion and all. < 1280691248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, there's uhs2xml.pl, xml2html.pl and showxml.pl here. < 1280691248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of lots of games where this fails. works mostly for RPGs, adventure and similar. < 1280691259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that is where it is most needed < 1280691290 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to audio, imx also needs a block-JPEG to perform lossless transformations on JPEG file by keeping the blocks compressed < 1280691310 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have also written a hint system called IFHINT < 1280691330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Where would it fail? < 1280691331 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not know how it compares with UHS) < 1280691338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it doesn't work well for very open ended adventure or rpg games where you have absolutely no clue what to do next. Granted, they are much more rare than mostly railroaded games, but still. they exist. < 1280691355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well open ended strategy games < 1280691360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty useless for that I guess < 1280691366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1280691375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280691377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, it doesn't work well for very open ended adventure or rpg games where you have absolutely no clue what to do next. Granted, they are much more rare than mostly railroaded games, but still. they exist. < 1280691379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this long. < 1280691392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have completed the Seven Trials, killed Morgggot, and retrieved the chicken. What do I do now?" < 1280691393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing UHS files needs some care in the question-titling business; if they're too explicit, you can deduce too much; if too vague, they'll be difficult to find. < 1280691398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. < 1280691405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yay! < 1280691413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, what were the thoughts? < 1280691423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See /msg. < 1280691438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was thinking about the kind of game where you could side with either side of a conflict for completely different gameplay, and possibly change in the middle < 1280691462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even do the "your own side, fight both" style. < 1280691473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There'd be a (One Side) and (Other Side) superheading, then. < 1280691481 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h132.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280691491 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1280691518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; there's an arbitrary tree of questions/subquestions, and then each hint has an arbitrary list of answers, revealed one by one. < 1280691549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tree? needs to be arbitrary graph for the kind of game I'm thinking about < 1280691574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't: you don't have to traverse the tree in order. < 1280691584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just needs to be browseable so that you find what you're looking for. < 1280691584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280691603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a human reading it, after all. < 1280691619 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conifer? I 'ardly knew 'er! < 1280691658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind of game I'm thinking about is _exceedingly_ rare, but exists. Most examples that come to mind are user created modules or such to open ended RPG game engines. Major companies seems to hate truly open ended RPGs. Probably because it is a lot more work. < 1280691703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, the format probably does work best for regular linear-ish (or at least fixed-content do-it-in-the-order-you-like) adventure games. < 1280691704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because players end up feeling lost. < 1280691757 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably, almost all MMORPGs fit that, they're just also "MMO" < 1280691784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I actually love the freedom of this kind of open ended gameplay. Especially if the game has D&D style alignment. If you play chaotic neutral in a rail roaded RPG you never really get the chance for being truly CN. < 1280691809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less of a problem for lawful of course. < 1280691817 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h162.0.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280691817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Incidentally, Myst's DS port added a whole new age (Rime) to the plot. (I don't remember how it tied in to the Myst plot; ISTR it wasn't just "one more red/blue page to find" thing.) < 1280691843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280691847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS port < 1280691852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1280691854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo DS, that is. < 1280691861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I gathered that < 1280691879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other ways it was a pretty sucky port; bugs and such. < 1280691892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you could write (with the stylus) in a notebook, that was a nice touch. < 1280691892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280691899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately the notebook only had one page.) < 1280691904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1280691920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pretty resource-limited system, and bitmaps take a lot of space. < 1280691953 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280691955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a review: "The Nintendo DS has the game at its worst: a poorly compressed, sometimes glitchy, game that relies entirely on visuals that are too hard to see for progression." < 1280691963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The reviewer is a Myst-hater, though.) < 1280691982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can anyone hate myst!? < 1280692001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, lots of people hate it. < 1280692014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what grounds? < 1280692025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very, very dull. < 1280692029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1280692030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the puzzles are on the ... inexplicable side. < 1280692032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree < 1280692033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When there /are/ any puzzles. < 1280692044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are puzzles everywhere in myst! < 1280692050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you're not walking. < 1280692051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Endlessly. < 1280692067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People do find it boring, yes. < 1280692113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I hate the FPS genre due to being too fast... so I guess there is a pattern here... < 1280692129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/due to/for/ < 1280692136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's the "zip mode" (at least in the Windows port) to ease a bit on the clickery needed in walking, if you're already been somewhere and want to revisit it. < 1280692148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that's in the mac one too < 1280692156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes that is quite nice < 1280692222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myst on mac at least was developed in hypercard I think... < 1280692230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280692239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that applies to the windows port < 1280692349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem in the DS port is that since there's no cursor, poking at random points might activate interactive things, but they might as well cause you to move somewhere; you'd know from the cursor shape. < 1280692383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1280692384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since they shrunk everything to the DS's 256x192 pixel resolution, some of the things you need to poke with a stick are pretty tiny. < 1280692405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't it have two screens? < 1280692410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that some other one? < 1280692418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one of them is a touchscreen. < 1280692422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280692443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a touchscreen, really. < 1280692446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More a stylusscreen. < 1280692453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, but pokeable anyway. < 1280692454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*styluscreen < 1280692455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often there's main graphics in the upper screen, and then some sort of UI in the bottom. < 1280692467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokeable screen, awesome name < 1280692482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pokescreen." Or is that too pokemon? (Or too porn?) < 1280692494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get how it could be porn... < 1280692496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh < 1280692506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah too pokemon definitely < 1280692512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Finnish colloquialism for porn; it probably doesn't translate. < 1280692526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, pokes? Or pokescreen? < 1280692532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pokemon? < 1280692543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "poke". Not too common, but recognizable anyway. < 1280692624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FF3 port, IIRC, puts the 3D view on top, and a map on the styluscreen; you can poke at the corners of the screen to move in that direction. The equip/item/etc. menu opens over the map, as do the battle menus (and other battle stats). < 1280692661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FF3 being? < 1280692666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Final Fantasy 3. < 1280692669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280692702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of Myst DS: "Even if you wanted to simply enjoy Myst's scenery, the grainy compression has shattered the beauty of the artistic design. What you see is a sad, freckled shell of the original game. The audio from the original game fares only slightly better: Hissing, scratching, and popping have turned CD-quality sound effects, dialogue, and gorgeous, ethereal music into a ham-radio affair." < 1280692725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1280692744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DS' audio is awful. < 1280692750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*DS's < 1280692772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myst is best enjoyed with a peforma cd drive for the seeking noise. It had a very peculiar seeking noise. Not heard on modern computers < 1280692784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I very strongly associates myst with that sound < 1280692785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a screenshot: http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2008/133/939943_20080513_screen003.jpg -- that's the full-size image, 256 pixels wide; just zoom it in the browser to approximate how you'd probably hold the DS closer than the monitor. < 1280692807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a map? that's ruining point of the whole thing < 1280692817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those icons? wtf < 1280692822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a static map, though; it doesn't tell you where you are. < 1280692827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1280692833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Inventory, presumably. Maybe? < 1280692844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only carry one thing in Myst. :p < 1280692854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on that specific world part of the challenge was figuring out the other islands played any sort of part in the story < 1280692854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The third one is the scribble-notepad. < 1280692874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nhm, well, I guess. They were pretty visible from the screens, though. < 1280692886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And the map doesn't show how you've rotated the bridge, so it doesn't help in that. < 1280692896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but there is scenery which is just scenery in many places < 1280692902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1280692916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't spoil it for alise ! < 1280692952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Myst_opening.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Realmyst_screen.png < 1280692959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh at the latter. Sure some stuff is better < 1280692974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why couldn't they keep the parts of better detail in the original < 1280692976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one is a zoom thing, with which you can zoom what's shown in the bottom screen for easier viewing, but it just stretches the bitmap, there's no higher-resolution version stored anywhere. < 1280692979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does Myst run in ScummVM or anything? < 1280692995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the part of the boat, some rigging or something sticking out < 1280693002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs in Wine. < 1280693004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the bumps are real bumps in the original < 1280693005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Julian Assange should get out of the country, quickly. < 1280693008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Blergh. < 1280693009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the new one... just texture < 1280693018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which country and why? < 1280693021 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myst was probably made in shockwave or something like that < 1280693029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hypercard on mac < 1280693032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was the original < 1280693039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what they used for PC < 1280693070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Pentagon are out to get him. < 1280693081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't he in hiding already? < 1280693086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, should go to iceland < 1280693116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-10/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-hunted-by-pentagon-over-massive-leakhttp://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-10/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-hunted-by-pentagon-over-massive-leak -- ok, ok, don't trust everything you read online, but i don't think The Daily Beast is known to be terribly inaccurate < 1280693130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 404 < 1280693139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, repeated link. < 1280693139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-10/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-hunted-by-pentagon-over-massive-leak < 1280693148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, I thought it was a bit on the long side < 1280693148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: RealMyst had to run in real-time on whatever hardware there was in 2000, so they probably didn't have the polygons to spare to get all the details from the originals -- which were offline-rendered -- in. < 1280693149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[“We’d like to know where he is; we’d like his cooperation in this,” one U.S. official said of Assange.]] < 1280693158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course when he gets to court he's fucked. No chance of a nice ruling there. < 1280693167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah true < 1280693213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think killing off Assange would stop any such leak. They most likely have the files spread and back up people to publish it < 1280693234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "While the new interactivity of the game was praised, realMyst ran extremely slowly on most computers of the time." Heh, maybe they also didn't try very hard. < 1280693248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realMyst: Interactive 3D Edition was a remake of Myst released in November 2000 for Windows PCs, and in January 2002 for Mac. Unlike Myst and the Masterpiece Edition, realMyst featured free-roaming, real-time 3D graphics instead of pre-rendered stills.[50] Weather effects like thunderstorms, sunsets, and sunrises were added to the Ages, and minor additions were made to keep the game in sync with the story of the Myst novels and sequels. The game also adde < 1280693248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d a new Age called Rime, which is featured in an extended ending. < 1280693253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So realMyst added Rime, not the DS version. < 1280693263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm. That grassy area on the side is nicer in realmyst IMO < 1280693265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is all < 1280693266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's the same Rime. < 1280693294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to know how the iPhone version is. < 1280693312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads insurance.aes256, 1.4 GB. < 1280693315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Williams, Bryn (2009-05-04). "Massive Myst Clogs Up iPhone". GameSpy. http://www.gamespy.com/articles/979/979141p1.html. Retrieved 2009-05-04." Sounds good. < 1280693345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 700+-megabyte download is apparently considered "big" for an iPhone app. < 1280693352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Of course it is XD < 1280693357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You download that over WiFi. < 1280693373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also need 1.5 gigs free during the installation; a copy is involved. Heh-eh. < 1280693393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "Assange appeared via Skype from Australia instead, saying lawyers recommended he not return to the United States.", if that is true I doubt he is in US < 1280693421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's "quick access to hint guide" in the iMyst (no, they're not calling it that) too. < 1280693476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also that link is old < 1280693485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it seems they've shrunk it down, the current iOS 4 compatible version is only 533 MB. I might even invest the $5 if I had an iDevice.) < 1280693487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I can tell it is before the afghan war diary stuff < 1280693540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it can only inflame. < 1280693559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I presume this insurance file is all the /rest/ of the documents the White House have begged him not to release about this stuff, encrypted with AES-256. < 1280693573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, he will post the key if he feels threatened by the govt. < 1280693581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Length: 309809152 (295M) [application/octet-stream] < 1280693585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said >1GB, Wikileaks. < 1280693587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You LIED. < 1280693626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what? where? < 1280693650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Afghan_War_Diary,_2004-2010 < 1280693655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The silently added insurance.aes256. < 1280693661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280693676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, wikileaks is slow atm < 1280693714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SHA-1 is wrong. < 1280693716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it truncated. < 1280693718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*truncated... < 1280693732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1280693741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking wget. < 1280693743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is doing it alright. < 1280693755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1280693787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, considering how slow the download page was to load, I very much suspect that overloaded server might be the cause. < 1280693856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT < 1280693865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DID I HAVE TO MAKE THIS SO CRASHPROOF < 1280693869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ??? < 1280693890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that deserves some explanation < 1280693893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the code that starts the thing in a try, some stuff in a catch, and the whole thing in a while(true) < 1280693898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now want to kill it < 1280693905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could run it on a different host < 1280693909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -9 pid-goes-here < 1280693923 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, it's not running on a computer I have access to < 1280693930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Memling_Vanity_and_Salvation.jpg (NSFW, WTF) < 1280693955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The self-restarts in a sense on exceptions aren't perfect, due to poor code design < 1280693956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, seen that before. Hisotorical context. < 1280693959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot details < 1280693964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check image page for "used in" < 1280693967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This triptych contrasts earthly beauty and luxury with the prospect of death and hell." < 1280693969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should help < 1280693970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still pretty WTF. < 1280693997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, someone has snipped out just the bit with nakedness: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Hans_Memling_Vanit%C3%A9_ca_1490.jpg XD < 1280694142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, google news search on wikileaks insurance aes256: "all 477 news articles »" < 1280694148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a bit of coverage < 1280694153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming all are related < 1280694156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1280694160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly just wikileaks, I bet < 1280694178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1280694271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders why Wikileaks didn't manually look for informant's names and only release documents known for certain not to contain them? < 1280694347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they release any with informant's names? < 1280694366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know, no one could tell if it was just random data to scare with < 1280694370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that file I mean < 1280694396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes iirc it turned out they did so < 1280695343 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280695415 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280695790 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280695833 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280696302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what kernel do i select in ubuntu 7.04 install? < 1280696308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-generic froze the install last time i tried < 1280696312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I choose the specific name? < 1280696317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *linux-kernel I think. maybe not < 1280696442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm... < 1280696446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which file system? < 1280696460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1280696461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it froze for me for about 20 minutes with jfs and about 10 with ext3 < 1280696464 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are commands in TeX to calculate the minimum width of a paragraph (with no hyphenation)? < 1280696470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: O_O what?! < 1280696472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it freeze that much < 1280696478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have no idea < 1280696484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any way to rectify it? < 1280696489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, logs showed the vm was trying to catch up time drift < 1280696501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ext3 is what it does when you just let it go with the whole disk, right? < 1280696503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and failed < 1280696503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is. < 1280696506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huh. So it eventually resolved? < 1280696519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well with ext3 it did. It did take an awful lot of time though < 1280696524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with jfs I gave up after 20 minutes < 1280696547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I used noatime mount option on ext3, no idea if that was signficiant or not < 1280696555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway linux-generic just maps to one of the other ones < 1280696558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last version or such < 1280696570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know about commands in TeX? < 1280696610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, clarify that question please What exactly do you mean < 1280696632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is "commands" some package? < 1280696640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pure TeX. < 1280696652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no idea. I use LaTeX < 1280696658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, I used noatime mount option on ext3, no idea if that was signficiant or not <-- is this likely to speed it up? < 1280696670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has no idea < 1280696672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no clue. < 1280696681 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clue < 1280696682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it might < 1280696699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean, theoretically it should perhaps, no need to update atime field < 1280696703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could hardly slow it down < 1280696709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there was some bug < 1280696712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I mean, the huge lag. < 1280696715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could that be related? < 1280696721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not. < 1280696726 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean Plain TeX. I want to calculate the minimum possible width of a box that a paragraph will fit into with no hyphenation or overfull boxes. < 1280696729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's time drift instead. < 1280696729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and since iirc noatime is not default and you hit that lag too. That is assuming you did defaults < 1280696738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1280696747 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no overlapping text. < 1280696747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not sure if the time drift is actually causing the slow down or just side effect < 1280696775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it might very well be caused by the VM hogging it's CPU to 100% in debconf during that time < 1280696781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it turns out top installed before kernel < 1280696789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could chroot into the install and run top < 1280696791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280696817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, just go to alt-f2, oh and it reports current status on alt-f4 or such < 1280696820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it's responsive? < 1280696823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, apt-get output < 1280696825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which kernel did you pick? < 1280696833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, default one < 1280696846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but it doesn't matter really since they are just generic aliases of each other < 1280696848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is the command to use if you want to test if a GNU/Linux system is running too slow: time seq 1 1000000 < 1280696855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, blame expert install for showing the option at all probably < 1280696862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why? < 1280696868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah. < 1280696881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, need it for the shadow option however < 1280696881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: For one, that's IO-bound. Heavily. You want >/dev/null. < 1280696885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For two, there are many implementations of seq. < 1280696888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For three, why?! < 1280696892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, modifying that after the fact turned out to be quite a mess. < 1280696917 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That is meaning in case you want to count multiple things at once including I/O and things. < 1280696923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough that I did a reinstall < 1280696948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Incidentally, using QEMU to emulate an x86-64 machine is a bitch. < 1280696959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1280696964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is because although I have a 64-bit processor, it does not support virtualisation, so VirtualBox can't do 64-bit on it. < 1280696965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus slowness. < 1280696970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it isn't /that/ slow < 1280696972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slow. < 1280696975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, you know, could be a bit faster. < 1280696982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My processor does that too... < 1280696997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, as far as I can tell it stalls (or seems to?) in generating the initrd or possibly depmod. This is based on output on alt-f4 < 1280697030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't know if you drink coffee, but this is the kind of place where guides would suggest you go make a cup of it to pass the time :P < 1280697040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually it suggests tea. < 1280697043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in the good manuals. < 1280697052 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command "time seq 1 1000000" doesn't test everything and also won't do only one thing for testing, but it is good as a simple way to test multiple things at once < 1280697054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that "trope" of manuals seems mostly gone nowdays < 1280697067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can't remember it being tea in any case I read about < 1280697069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There doesn't seem to be a coffee machine in the kitchen and I'm not about to drink instant coffee, so I don't drink coffee much. That's probably a good thing. < 1280697078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1280697080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've never seen coffee. Maybe I read better manuals than you. :P < 1280697088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't drink coffee < 1280697106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or British manuals rather than American ones. That could be a significant factor < 1280697117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use much British software, as far as I know. < 1280697132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish ones would probably suggest coffee. It is by far more common than tea here < 1280697140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe localised manuals. Who knows. I don't think they'd localise that; only open-sourcey and other thrifty projects have it, and those don't tend to get localised across dialects of English. < 1280697145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, well, yes, I'm talking English ere. < 1280697162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well I'm not sure which language I read it in < 1280697168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably both English and Swedish < 1280697195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :human memory is not perfect < 1280697285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wait, that 10 minutes was for virtualbox with hardware virt < 1280697296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu is in my experience slower... < 1280697310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much varies < 1280697313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was with kvm < 1280697325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without kvm... you might have to wait a bit more than 10 minutes < 1280697333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hopefully not though < 1280697360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does KVM work if your processor doesn't do that virtualisin' thang? < 1280697365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no < 1280697368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1280697370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not afaik < 1280697371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then no luckz. < 1280697383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. Also how fast cpu? < 1280697392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that < 1280697396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange sound < 1280697413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.33 GHz or something; ultra low voltage. But don't be fooled; it runs a ton of Firefox and other windows very snappily and quickly on bloated old Ubuntu. < 1280697416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... lots of small muffled explosions after each other < 1280697420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's no slowpoke. It /is/ Core 2 Duo, after all. < 1280697435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 5-10 / second, went on for maybe 4 or 5 seconds < 1280697436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1280697439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from outside < 1280697444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1280697454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my cpu is Core 2 Duo @ 2.26 GHz btw < 1280697489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, looking at top and virtualbox's harddrive icon it seemed that whatever thing it stalled at was CPU bound, not IO bound < 1280697508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. I can wait for indefinite amounts of time as long as I know it's not frozen. < 1280697516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It froze at 8x% -- is this your experience too? < 1280697523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8x%? < 1280697531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was when installing kernel I know < 1280697553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it froze a short while at 8x% I think, and then the 10 minute freeze at 92% or such < 1280697559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one was like about a minute or so < 1280697562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. It froze for a few minutes at 8x% for me. < 1280697565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1280697567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1280697577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, slower cpu, no hw virt. What can you expect? < 1280697580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you calculate the shortest width of hbox that a paragraph will fit into with no overfills, hyphenation, or overlapped text? < 1280697586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't you have one with hw virt? < 1280697603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you did < 1280697633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway I'm really curious as to what debconf was doing, since it was it that was using 99% CPU during the second stall at least < 1280697633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; an AMD box and an iMac. < 1280697638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you know, I like this little box. It's dinky! < 1280697643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the actual hostname. < 1280697650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what was the screen res? < 1280697662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1366x768; which, on a 13" screen, gives it a lovely dpi. < 1280697668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enough to have a few windows on the same screen. < 1280697702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, opengenera uses a 800x600 window (do not resize, I haven't tried, but the snap4 README said that if you do that, BAD things will happen). And a bitmapped font that is kind of hard to read on my thinkpad at times. < 1280697720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you can save state in vmware, in case you need to continue next weekend I mean < 1280697734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Indeed, the screen is so high-quality and high-dpi that /slight-hinted RGB subpixel rendering by (patent-patched) freetype/ actually *has no noticeable subpixels*. < 1280697740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally. Even if you lean your head in and strain to see. < 1280697749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks even better than OS X's subpixel rendering. < 1280697752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah yeah, but opengenera can only use bitmapped fonts < 1280697758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so those will do you no good here < 1280697758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual font rendering isn't up to snuff, of course, but the subpixel... < 1280697761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 800x600 is fine. < 1280697766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, you can save state in vmware, in case you need to continue next weekend I mean < 1280697766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QEMU < 1280697769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would I need to? < 1280697770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1280697771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more sleepin' < 1280697781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox can save state too IIRC. < 1280697782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you got discharged? < 1280697784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1280697788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu you mean < 1280697795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I meant VirtualBox. < 1280697796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not discharged. < 1280697797 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280697798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just daypatient. < 1280697805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh wait < 1280697812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write vmware, and meant virtualbox < 1280697815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how funny < 1280697816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1280697821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes vmware can too < 1280697836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, can qemu though? < 1280697867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you show up sleep deprived though... things might start looking bad for you again < 1280697871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean < 1280697882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm good at hiding it. < 1280697887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I look tired on Mondays anyway. < 1280697898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But no, I'm on the "fast track" to being discharged in September. < 1280697901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to peace of course ... < 1280697902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. I know I personally fail at hiding lack of sleep < 1280697904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello ais523! < 1280697909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1280697914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I can stay awake, unless at home... but even so < 1280697918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not well hidden < 1280697934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes hi ais523 < 1280697951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you reach any clarity in that esr/ick/knuth issue? < 1280697954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can survive on five hours of sleep and after a bit of yawning I'm okay after noon. < 1280697959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then by evening I crash. < 1280697960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's still happening < 1280697977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't heard anything except the initial statement < 1280697982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything new since then? < 1280697991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just technical details < 1280698002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no reason why? < 1280698039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is INTERCAL, who needs reasons? < 1280698047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we're trying to compile a huge repo of all known C-INTERCAL history < 1280698055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1280698066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like every revision and version? < 1280698068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of ick? < 1280698071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280698073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or all known c-intercal code? < 1280698080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it wasn't versioned particularly well in the past < 1280698083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't forget my port to MPW < 1280698085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the older history is a bit flaky < 1280698102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, probably only I have the foggiest idea how to compile that though < 1280698111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have more history, like the MPW port, you could reply to the a.kl < 1280698113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a.l.i post < 1280698126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I only have read only access to a.l.i < 1280698136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or usenet at all rather < 1280698141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'd like to revisit my statements re Myst "it works in Wine"; ScummVM does have a "WIP" version of the Mohawk engine used by Myst/windows (as well as Riven and the Masterpiece Edition redo), and it's even in the SVN repo and does something; presumably not very playable yet, but last commit three weeks ago so it's not quite dead either; http://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/Myst < 1280698144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW :) < 1280698148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This thing didn't exist, last I looked at it.) < 1280698150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone can use Google Groups < 1280698153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, you got the patch I think? I can link you to it otherwise < 1280698159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have it < 1280698164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AnMaster can't use Google Groups, they'll steal his inner goodness! < 1280698178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, even I'm a bit paranoid about it, to the extent of deleting cookies afterwards < 1280698179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ScummVM is rapidly becoming AnyDamnThingVM! < 1280698191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Google filtered more tightly than pretty much any other website < 1280698205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was recently asked to < 1280698205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepare a new INTERCAL release by no less a personage than Donald < 1280698205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth, who wants to feature an INTERCAL program in his next book. < 1280698205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see the files starting at ick on this url http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~anmaster/ < 1280698206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's why. < 1280698212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see logs for url < 1280698216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all I can give < 1280698218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knwo < 1280698219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tell Knuth that he should clearly use /your/ C-INTERCAL >:D < 1280698221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know < 1280698227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hey, it's backwards-compatible < 1280698231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth cannot stoop so low to use esr software! < 1280698247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the current plan is to merge the ais and esr branches < 1280698248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however there is still that issue with ick generating C89 code that MPW doesn't like < 1280698251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new release will probably spew neoconservative propaganda on startup. >:) < 1280698253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What, forever? < 1280698255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope not. < 1280698257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, something I never got around to trying to work around < 1280698265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, forgot exactly what it didn't like too < 1280698277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: qemu does have VM snapshots, yes. < 1280698300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, esr made other changes? < 1280698303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't dead? < 1280698314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a few, it seems < 1280698328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and none are particularly objectionable or controverisal < 1280698335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nearly as many as I did, anyway < 1280698340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and another issue... I think I versioned it in bzr, I found darcs a bit annoying at that point. < 1280698341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280698364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, about binaries. Do you know about the two forks classic MacOS used to have? < 1280698402 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280698433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is that while I could compile it for you, there is no way I could send it in a format that could be read anywhere except on classic mac OS. Either *.sit.hqx or *.sit.bin or .img.hqx or .img.bin < 1280698438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is a disk image < 1280698444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :created by disc copy for classic mac os < 1280698449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x might be able to read it < 1280698451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1280698457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't an os x disk image however < 1280698466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the sources are enough < 1280698472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, see that url < 1280698476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, noted < 1280698480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hope the patch applies cleanly and such < 1280698486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably doesn't against last version < 1280698501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and note: the patch is not ASCII or ISO-* < 1280698509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is MacRoman in part, this can not be avoided < 1280698518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because MPW makefiles makes use of those symbols < 1280698524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't work without them < 1280698528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280698534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it replaces stuff like : in normal makefiles and such < 1280698571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I'm not sure if that might change line ending in some other file. Probably best to be very careful with what you apply to your own ick from that. The fixes for generating paths should work though < 1280698589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a lengthy comment there about why exactly and so on < 1280698601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'd have to be utterly crazy to backport fixes intended to run on MacOS Classic < 1280698603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there were some pepet.c changes since system() won't work < 1280698620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the optimal alternative would be to instead patch autoconf to handle that operating system < 1280698622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, I meant if you want to apply to your own branch < 1280698626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1280698662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the fix to generating paths and some of the stuff in perpet.c, plus some fixes to add some extra checks to configure.ac (unless I misremember) should all be fine < 1280698669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the changes you should be wary about are outside the src dir < 1280698691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What character replaces : again? < 1280698705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, eh, don't remember and doubt I could copy it anyway < 1280698722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could recreate it with Unicode. Was it that S section symbol? < 1280698737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well let me open the file < 1280698744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and change encoding < 1280698754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since *nix editor goes spare over this patch < 1280698776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-#line 238 "lexer.l" < 1280698777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+#line 248 "lexer.l" < 1280698777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280698782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thousands of lines like that < 1280698788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the pre-generated files < 1280698793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes macs need them < 1280698825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that was another issue yeah. macs mangle \r and \n in a way similar to windows. The reverse of it that is < 1280698836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\r maps to \n and \n maps to \r < 1280698838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know all about classic mac line endings < 1280698839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C < 1280698846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but how stdio mangled I meant < 1280698864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone asks me why people sometimes use \n and sometimes use code to generate a particular line ending < 1280698881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tell them that it's to work around a bug on classic Mac OS, and as nobody uses that any more they can just use \n safely < 1280698902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280698906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Has some sort of conversion happened to http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~anmaster/ick_classic_macppc.diff or is it the web server or what? If I wget/curl it, the file has UTF-8 0xfffd (Unicode "replacement character") in those places you'd expect uncommon characters. < 1280698911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, kate doesn't have macroman < 1280698923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, um, it shouldn't < 1280698926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very bad < 1280698934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, must be broken diff < 1280698942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or crappy webserver. < 1280698955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doubt it, it servers it as application/octet-stream < 1280699061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ais523, okay, working on fixing up a new diff < 1280699070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not using hg diff this time, it seems at fault < 1280699094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to replace the old one? < 1280699123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, I'm going to try to diff against exported r1 (clean import) and exported last revision < 1280699128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with diff < 1280699139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that doesn't work I'll just upload both as tarballs or something < 1280699274 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280699318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh... < 1280699477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on "iconv -f mac" and Wikipedia's "Mac OS Roman" table, it replaces the : in makefiles with ƒ -- unicode "latin small letter f with hook" -- and backslashes with ∂ -- unicode "partial differential". I remembered they were freaky from some MPW playing back then, but I didn't remember them to be quite *that* freaky, assuming the sources I looked at were correct. < 1280699497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the last version < 1280699530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how urgent is this? I think it may take a few hours for me to figure out which dir is the current. since the sources on the mac image doesn't perfectly match the last source control version < 1280699535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really urgent < 1280699561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, should numerals.c be part of libick.a? < 1280699561 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280699566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1280699568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.o not .c < 1280699577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o i c < 1280699581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes IIRC < 1280699587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* < 1280699594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then this difference makes no sense < 1280699601 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280699627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's an august day! < 1280699671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets mmap limit to 0 and starts sheepshaver < 1280699953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these logs are too long. again. < 1280699954 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@80-123-35-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280699989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is starting to make a tiny bit more sense now < 1280700017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that clearly means you are finally going insane < 1280700050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, c-intercal port to classic mac os making sense, yes probably < 1280700060 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280700070 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1280700555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay I made sense of the changes to the source. I will actually try to clean this up into several patches. Some of which should be applied to your own branch really since they are somewhat generic in nature < 1280700730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Based on "iconv -f mac" and Wikipedia's "Mac OS Roman" table, it replaces the : in makefiles with ƒ -- unicode "latin small letter f with hook" -- and backslashes with ∂ -- unicode "partial differential". I remembered they were freaky from some MPW playing back then, but I didn't remember them to be quite *that* freaky, assuming the sources I looked at were correct. < 1280700734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think partial differential is backspace < 1280700740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since \{foo}\ is a var in the shell < 1280700741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1280700745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :∂{foo}∂ < 1280700763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280700996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's used as a line-continuation character there, anyway. < 1280701050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I've seen it literally where I'd expect a backspace, so I confirm your sources are correct. < 1280701084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M'k. < 1280701099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K'm. < 1280701106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's possible to just look at https://gforge.uni.lu/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/*checkout*/tags/revision-1.0/expat-2.0.1/lib/Makefile.MPW?revision=271&root=hpc-ga-bench&pathrev=272 as an example, and set browser's character encoding to macroman. < 1280701134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what's up with the "{•foo•}" bits though. < 1280701185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the local sed-alike invocation: StreamEdit -d e "/•('XMLPARSEAPI('≈') ')«0,1»'XML_'([A-Za-z0-9_]+)®1'('/ Print 'XML_' ®1" "{HdrDir}expat.h" > {Targ} < 1280701753 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280701847 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280701997 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280702375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~anmaster/ick-mac-patches.tar.gz < 1280702380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see that url in log < 1280702394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tarball contains a directory of patches < 1280702399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each one fixing a small thing < 1280702405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should make it easier to apply < 1280702417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is against ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz as far as I know < 1280702432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and configure will need to be regenerated afterwards < 1280702444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it only includes diff to configure.ac, not to configure itself < 1280702465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac Roman, Macro Man. < 1280702475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes I checked the file in the tar ball < 1280702484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains strange stuff that is not 0xfffd < 1280702488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that much I know < 1280702490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't saying anything about you. < 1280702664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, for no reason, a classic PFSC: http://www.picturesforsadchildren.com/comics/00000028.gif < 1280702682 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280702690 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280702833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *prod* < 1280702843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I've seen it < 1280702859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw I get why you want to build all historic ick versions. But what has knuth got to do with it? < 1280702879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he seems to want a new version < 1280702885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hum < 1280702894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He wants esr to make a new release, because he is including a C-INTERCAL program in his next book. < 1280702895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why all historic then < 1280702902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to merge all branches into one < 1280702902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1280702911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, easier to merge branches if you know what they are < 1280702914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, would be lovely, but is improbable < 1280702920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what Knuth wants. < 1280702924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: esr and ais523 are participating. there is nobody else. < 1280702927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is happening < 1280702930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280702937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, you can't disappoint knuth < 1280702938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include in TAOCP? < 1280702942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other book? < 1280702943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upsetting knuth is like ... Basically, just kill yourself. < 1280702945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i doubt TAOCP < 1280702948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably some other book. < 1280702950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phew* < 1280702953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1280702957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although ... that would be awesome. < 1280702971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but unlikely since it isn't written in MMIX < 1280702974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here we present rinky-dink sort in INTERCAL, a popular programming language." < 1280702980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280702993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We can contrast the structure with the MMIX version, as they both have very different control structures. However, there are some similarities." < 1280702995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is rinky-dinky sort btw? < 1280703005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth's new O(1) sorting algorithm over any list. < 1280703006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like it would only be efficient in INTERCAL, whatever it is < 1280703015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it's important to get a new release. < 1280703021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har har < 1280703025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare for INTERCAL to be more efficient than other languages, except in lines of code < 1280703029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's compiled via other languages < 1280703053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, at least one of the patches in that tarball fixes a code gen error that makes generated code sometimes not valid C89 < 1280703067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280703086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: ais523, basically without 04_output_valid_c89.patch you can sometimes get zero length static arrays in the generated output < 1280703093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't logread. < 1280703098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1280703100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try MemoServ. < 1280703105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280703109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll mention it next time < 1280703211 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280703233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and btw, not all of that can be compiled in sheepshaver. it is too buggy. I remember some file crashing sheepshaver. Had to compile it on my old ibook then copy the object file over < 1280703278 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally I got the Icoruma->TeX to work. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/printout/main.dvi < 1280703323 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye everybody. < 1280703325 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1280703350 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1280703426 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now is the time you ar expected to complain about the formatting being no good ... < 1280703460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, why dvi? < 1280703468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdftex produces better results < 1280703473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pdf is nodways an open format < 1280703479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nodways. < 1280703495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it won't be better unless he uses lmodern < 1280703501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think there's plain tex support for lmodern. < 1280703518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make it produce PDF as well, if you want. < 1280703519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvi2ps -> dvi2pdf actually produces worse results than pdflatex < 1280703530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pdftex < 1280703535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are doing plain tex < 1280703550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, my point is, avoid going over dvi < 1280703573 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I have now both DVI and PDF. < 1280703582 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/printout/main.pdf < 1280703597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, with hyperref (latex only? I have no idea) you can get clickable links for the TOC in the pdf and so on < 1280703606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperref is latex only < 1280703612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280703613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like everything else < 1280703623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, why are you using plain tex instead of latex? < 1280703629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he considered latex too complex < 1280703633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and couldn't get tables working properly. < 1280703645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't knock plain tex/dvi too hard though, Knuth still writes everything in it :-D < 1280703651 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because Plain TeX works better, and I understand it. < 1280703655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although he has impeccable typographical taste < 1280703669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, one minor point, on page 9 there is a table, the table is left aligned while the "Table 2-1" caption is centered < 1280703679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, would probably look better if both were the same < 1280703688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would go for both centered in a float < 1280703689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both should be centred < 1280703692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1280703698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :centred, not centered :P < 1280703714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you're no longer in the ()? < 1280703719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the ()? < 1280703728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1280703734 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster,alise: Yes I do believe you. I just haven't completed it yet, but the part that works it now works. I will fix these things < 1280703737 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, me being silly obfuscating what I mean. < 1280703742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unit < 1280703779 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(However, I believe there is a way of doing hyperlinks with Plain TeX, since I have seen CWEB printouts that use it (and CWEB uses Plain TeX) < 1280703786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hyphenation? < 1280703798 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have to use \special or whatever, though < 1280703805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there is one < 1280703817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was worried something was broken at first < 1280703819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seems fine < 1280703828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some authors do not like hyphenation < 1280703848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I turned off hyphenation in tables, for one thing, otherwise I would keep getting overfull hboxes < 1280703850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, tex is quite good at avoiding it when possible < 1280703851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes alise  < 1280703865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am poke'd < 1280703877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well in tables it might make sense. Also overful hboxes is not really an issue unless something actually looks wrong in the result < 1280703878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i'm there - as daypatient, thrice weekly. < 1280703889 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better than before, at least < 1280703894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyphenation is a Good Thing < 1280703965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, quite nice. The only issue I saw was that table not being centred < 1280703977 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, and it will be fixed later on. < 1280703978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that using pdflatex with lmodern would produce better results < 1280704003 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have both PDF and DVI now. But I am not using LaTeX < 1280704010 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye for now < 1280704015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the font manages to be a bit blurry on my monitor < 1280704223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, AnMaster, you're good at paging and stuff, right? < 1280704235 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm good at paging and stuff? < 1280704278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, on x86-64 can you page to an address that the machine doesn't support? < 1280704278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess 'cause you're BORING :P < 1280704301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With more than 40 bits of address, I mean. < 1280704316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want Wooble to be a jerk to me again so I can whack him with the institution bat. >_> < 1280704350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooble? < 1280704520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An Agora player; tends to be an asshole. To everyone. < 1280704531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, thoughts? < 1280704553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I do think you can use all 48 bits in virtual addresses; 40 bits is just how many physical address bits there are. < 1280704573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 bits‽ Not nearly enough! < 1280704574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it pretty much say that? "address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual" < 1280704578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need 64! < 1280704586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need 64? < 1280704591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complicated. < 1280704610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, like that Facebook relationship status. < 1280704618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1280704622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i think alise has been encouraging him < 1280704630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is "widowed". < 1280704663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need 64 ... < 1280704667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280704721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this is some sort of SECRET POR-JECT of you folks. Sounds SUSPICIOUS; expect a visit from the COPS, just in case it has to do with 64-BIT DRUGS. < 1280704767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear digital drugs are the latest thing: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/digital-drugs/ < 1280704778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they're persistent offenders < 1280704794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, those things. < 1280704816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They're gateway drugs to really dangerous sequences of bits. < 1280704823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh; available on YouTube. Even if they did work that will utterly destroy any actual binaural qualities in it. < 1280704832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a reason binaural things are distributed losslessly. < 1280704913 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280704914 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the article _starts_ talking about MP3s... < 1280704940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People use MP3 to mean any audio file nowadays. < 1280704962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't put it past Wired, let alone a *blog* on wired.com. < 1280704979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People u < 1280704991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least here) use "MP3" to refer to portable media players. < 1280704997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How many songs do you have on your MP3?" < 1280705008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My MP3 is the red one: it can store more songs than the silver one." < 1280705071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same people use "web" to mean "a instant messaging conversation performed with the aid of a webcam". As in, "I was in web with so-and-so, and ..." < 1280705084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the wired articles doesn't really seem to be taking this seriously :D < 1280705091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*article < 1280705138 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280705182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language: driving prescriptists mad since the ancient babylonians < 1280705190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prescriptivists < 1280705194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prescriptivists...dammit < 1280705226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should have just dropped his own correction and chastised alise for taking the hook < 1280705228 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280705242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how ironic < 1280705261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very meta < 1280705289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never meta very I didn't like. < 1280705307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X < 1280705316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure what his mouth is doing < 1280705356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There's a reason binaural things are distributed losslessly. <-- ? < 1280705373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1280705374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fnord fnord fnord fnord. < 1280705382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280705383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because they require lots of crazy pitches and shit to "work" (if they do work at all) < 1280705395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychoacoustic compression is designed for the sound of music and the like, not precision < 1280705398 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280705466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like the perfect weapon for those evil-AI-in-a-not-quite-perfect-box things < 1280705474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not strange that something you're not supposed to consciously notice is messed by a compression method based on keeping only noticeable features of the sound and throwing away all the rest. < 1280705531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the "joint stereo" stuff would probably horribly break all that fluff. Assuming any of it does anything, that is. < 1280705765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: who's responsible if a low-bitrate encoding of a drug-soundclip causes some kid to think he's an orange and peel himself with a knife? The codec author? Ratifier of the corresponding standard? These are important questions. < 1280705792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaaat? < 1280705818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the wired link for contect. < 1280705833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text. < 1280705900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Asleep now.) < 1280705932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie sleepIRCs. < 1280705934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1280705960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, fizzie, after reading the wired link I can only conclude that people from the onion invaded their office < 1280705966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is that weird < 1280706411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they've been listening to drugs < 1280706930 0 :charlls!~charlls@200.75.255.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280707942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so, did the kernel finish installing yet? < 1280708048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then... night < 1280708181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: haven't started yet < 1280709479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, couldn't sleep, due to this idea: < 1280709485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5 quine < 1280709499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible? < 1280709518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^ < 1280709586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280710119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1280710505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm < 1280710524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: crc32 quines exist i think < 1280710526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1280710528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so possible < 1280710875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genteelmen. < 1280711068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Project for the insane: Translate Hamlet to Toki Pona. < 1280711253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't even have a word for "green"; you have to use "yelo laso" (yellow blue) or something. < 1280711287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toki Ponans express larger numbers additively by using phrases such as tu wan for three, tu tu for four, and so on.[27] This feature was added to make it impractical to communicate large numbers.[6] < 1280711478 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280711662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tu tu mute tu wan < 1280711668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"four many three" = 4*3 < 1280711673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thwarted you, Kisa! < 1280711686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to ackermann < 1280711790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1280712293 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h5.50.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280712445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi CakeProphet < 1280712455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prophesised any cakes recently? < 1280712584 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought Sapir-Worf was discredited? < 1280712772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Context? < 1280712774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sapir-Whorf < 1280712774 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo < 1280712841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: < 1280712858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toki_Pona < 1280712873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is; but otoh, toki pona utilises something a bit weaker than sapir-whorf < 1280712881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "making it linguistically a bitch to say anything complex or bad" < 1280712888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is obviously possible < 1280712964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT < 1280712969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION presses alt+f4 on qemu by mistake < 1280713188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : md5 quine <<< if it's any good a hash, it's highly likely that there is a quine, you need 23 ppl for birthday paradox, in the md5 paradox you have 2^128 people and 2^128 days < 1280713208 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course if you meant whether it's possible to *find* one < 1280713368 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280713430 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280713483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/MD5 < 1280713977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoting uncyclopedia isn't much of an argument, how could you trust it when anyone can just put whatever they want in there < 1280714094 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blehs at his dad wanting to buy him a Kindle < 1280714254 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280714278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Which you obviously must obey. < 1280714300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, one of the main things I want is the ability to use it like blank pen and paper < 1280714317 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a review suggesting that the handwriting stuff is better for short notes than for that sort of thing < 1280714329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess I'll have to try it in a store [the Sony eReader Touch] < 1280714359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would mean I'd be far more mathy, imo < 1280714491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irex < 1280714521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time we had this discussion, I remember commenting that that's expensive, iirc? < 1280714552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only outside of US. < 1280714575 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly cheap in the US either :P < 1280714587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oops! Google Chrome could not find shop.ereaderoutfitters.com < 1280714587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1280714599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1280714679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does IREX have a handwriting thingy, so I can do math stuff? < 1280714688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And take notes for class? < 1280714698 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280714775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sorry, the page you requested was not found." < 1280714783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^trying to go to the BestBuy link < 1280714954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IREX does handwriting I think < 1280714956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a stylus < 1280715039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having trouble finding it < 1280715050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're referring to iLiad < 1280715078 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h93.50.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280715083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$4800 < 1280715086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, $480 < 1280715089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still expensive < 1280715153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reasons not to get a Sony eReader Touch? < 1280715232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll get a chance to try it in-person < 1280715234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not an irex. < 1280715241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iLiad is the old irex < 1280715243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask Gregor < 1280715260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irexreader.com/ < 1280715410 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IREX DR800SG is what I have. < 1280715413 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not $480 < 1280715435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much is it? < 1280715471 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno, I don't know where you can buy it anymore. < 1280715478 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be on bestbuy.com, but it seems it's not any more. < 1280715489 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280715639 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280715668 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1280715736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, is there anything wrong with getting a Sony eReader Touch? < 1280715753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :herpes < 1280715829 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280715841 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280716099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi augur < 1280716125 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 's probably OK. < 1280716125 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno < 1280716142 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, alise, my dear < 1280716155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop the last two words there :| < 1280716158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should make sure the software installs onto my computer successfully < 1280716178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's not linux :D < 1280716221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a Linux version? Maybe I should use that. My Windows install is rather FUBARed right now < 1280716239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean sony reader isn't < 1280716241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irex is linux < 1280716254 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, alise, < 1280716267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: also the comma. < 1280716275 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello alise, < 1280716276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i said last clause you'd just linguistically correct me pedantically < 1280716286 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1280716300 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The Sony Reader doesn't run Linux? That sounds unlikely. < 1280716302 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all do. < 1280716305 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, well, there was no clause there, so. < 1280716309 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be less hackable. < 1280716316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: precisely < 1280716324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, yeah, but it's probably not X11. < 1280716326 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1280716327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a good bad thing. < 1280716329 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello alise, < 1280716332 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows life < 1280716332 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yesh :P < 1280716339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1280716340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bad good thing. < 1280716342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1280716349 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1280716351 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badgood < 1280716358 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bane of goodbad's existance < 1280716420 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! < 1280716436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, when will you read Fine Structure? < 1280716503 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280716524 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what's Fine Structure? < 1280716527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the universe all's out of line and -- "Fucking--! What the fuck i-- I'm not even going to ask, where is the prince, is the prince here? What have you done with the prince?" "Sir, I'm sor-" "No. No fucking sorry. I want to know where the prince is." There was silence for minutes. "... follow me." He was lead into a ch-- what is this that I have found to happen? The things are all whats. < 1280716533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: a sci-fi novel by Sam Hughes < 1280716536 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1280716539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ^ there is your answer < 1280716552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1280716562 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I can feel free to spoil you? < 1280716606 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it augur and alise, stop having names that both begin with 'a' and are the same number of characters long >_< < 1280716627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1280716753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff happens < 1280716819 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, stuff does >3 < 1280716832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: gasp < 1280717113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to fix IE somehow < 1280717221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if installing IE8 then uninstalling IE8 would fix IE6 < 1280717246 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for now, I'll just install IE8 < 1280717299 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, installer said it couldn't uninstall the "current version" of IE8 < 1280717307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it will install over it a new, unremovable version < 1280717308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1280717331 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... how about you just USE IE8 ... < 1280717347 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, how about you use a real browser, but one step at a time. < 1280717384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, there are many applications that rely on IE for one reason or another. < 1280717397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second, Windows Activation happens to be one of them.. and it demands IE6 < 1280717407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when I eventually do a Repair Install... < 1280717438 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Activation demands IE6? That's hilariously broken even for MS :P < 1280717468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually thought about attempting to .. do piratey stuff to my otherwise legit XP install to get around it < 1280717472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I did a Repair Install < 1280717506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://abstrusegoose.com/249 < 1280717636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, restarting < 1280717831 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280717842 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280718036 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280718054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280718260 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280718380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1280718391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing IE8 fixed the problem with there being no default browser < 1280718399 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it made the default browser Chrome < 1280718427 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1280718431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Well, I think Chrome was the default, but installing IE fixed.. the thingy that handles URLs] < 1280718432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good choice, IE8! < 1280718747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to find his library card < 1280719298 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280719708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, congratulations < 1280719746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! < 1280719759 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :202| GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! < 1280719786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALthough, uh.. this means that malicious websites could do evil things, right? < 1280719815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GASP* < 1280719834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i thought malicious websites only did _good_ things < 1280719834 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h37.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280719922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why congrats to comex? < 1280719939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/cw6ym/iphone_401_jailbreak_via_safari/ < 1280719952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jailbreakme.com/faq.html < 1280719975 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280720265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. It's back. < 1280720354 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1280720359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im totally comment spamming this thread < 1280720369 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much to say! < 1280720372 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x.x < 1280720398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/01/official-iphone-4-jailbreak-hits-from-iphone-dev-team/ < 1280720439 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you know anything about theorem proving? < 1280720445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of what sort? < 1280720470 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any < 1280720604 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280720816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/joshwrobel <-- boohoo < 1280721114 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no huh < 1280721177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, goodnight. < 1280721196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1280721200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280722649 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h6.45.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280722770 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280723370 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280723929 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280723931 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h62.3.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280724057 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280724877 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280725478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280725558 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dang it, uploading 70MB or so of audio files = slow :P < 1280725701 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov2-wipp10.ogg < 1280725881 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, pikhq (not here), maybe augur, anybody else who might care, ^^^ < 1280726199 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280727002 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: will look after BBT < 1280728453 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg bbt < 1280728454 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :":D < 1280728477 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: did your algos generate this? < 1280728500 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1280728504 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The algos in my brain < 1280728507 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hands < 1280728515 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And right foot < 1280728530 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1280728534 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thats not impressive < 1280728544 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any skilled human composer can write good piano music < 1280728576 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sentence ... is its own definition :P < 1280728603 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what that means, but ok :D < 1280728722 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A skilled composer is someone who can write good music. Someone who can write good music is a skilled composer. So the only addition is "piano", which is obvious since the piano is a versatile solo instrument that nearly anyone who can play any instrument can play. < 1280728777 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and "human" I suppose, but I am insufficiently skilled at MAGIC to write a skilled computer composer :P < 1280728819 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it was a compliment, take it for what it is. < 1280728832 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST ANALYZE EVERYTHING < 1280728888 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it was a carefully crafted sentence and im glad you appreciated it for that. < 1280728890 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1280729002 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280729420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Well you also need _talent_... < 1280729950 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280730635 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1280730712 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1280730835 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-230-187.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280731455 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: omghaahhahaohwow < 1280733341 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280735033 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280735638 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280735999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1280736000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280738335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster, pikhq (not here), maybe augur, anybody else who might care, ^^^ <-- mmm thanks, will listen in a few hours, just woke up and have to head out < 1280738348 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280740581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Heh: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sorenragsdale/3192314056/ < 1280740709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1280740872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow it doesn't look flight-save. < 1280740947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's two other nice ones in a gallery about the effect: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sorenragsdale/3904937619/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/meriko/4013673616/ < 1280741899 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes. < 1280741979 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would love to do a bullettime fly around of such a thing < 1280743038 0 :DarkRedman!~RedmanFra@ip-212.net-81-220-18.versailles.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1280743649 0 :DarkRedman!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280743707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm *so* happy I got RAID 1. Really < 1280743722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses mdadm to fail one device < 1280743737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to figure out which one it is physically < 1280745041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdadm monitoring daemon mail from that: http://sprunge.us/YUZe < 1280745046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange style it is written in < 1280745069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, think about it, an auto generated mail have no reason to use P.S. ... really < 1280746393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a reasonably common style, though, to make app-generated emails look as if they were written by a person. < 1280746399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qmail does it a lot, IIRC. < 1280746430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bounces look like: < 1280746444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. This is the qmail-send program at [host]. < 1280746444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. < 1280746444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. < 1280746524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, why are you so happy? < 1280746570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One broken disk, no data loss; I presume. < 1280746624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not with RAID 1, surely? < 1280746642 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAID 1 just striped, I thought. < 1280746685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's RAID 0. < 1280746688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAID 1 is the mirrored one. < 1280746964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, where you just have a few disks with the same data on all of them. < 1280747206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Usually few == 2. < 1280747286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : One broken disk, no data loss; I presume. <-- one broken disk, no need to restore from slow backup < 1280747330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any opinions on if this is drive or mobo? http://sprunge.us/bfPd < 1280747348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I suspect drive since it seems to have vibration issues as well... < 1280747371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noticed that when using hdparm -y to identify which physical drive it was < 1280747402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I would use few = 3, except my mobo only has two sata connectors < 1280747459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use few == 3, I'm not made of money. < 1280747469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you check smartctl's statistics, if applicable? < 1280747498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I checked that, no errors reported. but that drive spun down several more times (it does at each error) < 1280747514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but if you mean vibration stats I don't think it has that < 1280747563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess the drive is more likely anyway; if the sata controller has been burninated, you'd probably see errors on all channels. (Of course it's probably *possible* for it to break so that only one port goes, but it's maybe not so likely.) < 1280747573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the disk is quite readable, md data check passes but it does have vibration issues and it does spin down and lock everything up every now and then < 1280747635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is interesting that there seems to be no place to see that ata1.00 == sda < 1280747680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I figured it out from spin down count for smartctl -A and also that when running extended self test, the drive spun down, and when it restarted it had completely forgot about this last self test < 1280748020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls -l /sys/dev/block | grep sda/ => "8:0 -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.2/host0/target0:0:0/0:0:0:0/block/sda/" -- the physical path there (target0:0:0) is somewhat likely to correspond to connectors. (Though on my system changing BIOS flips for SATA mode -- legacy IDE, AHCI, silly-RAID -- can rearrange in which order connectors {0, 1, 2, 3} and {4, 5} appear.) < 1280748078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure where the "ata1.00" name comes from, though. I guess it could be something driver-internal. < 1280748147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. These two files should be identical, but one has 21639 lines in it while the other has only 16254; that's not quite identical to me. < 1280748174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the other disk is ata2.00 iirc < 1280748192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my dvd is ata3.00 < 1280748311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other car is a cdr. < 1280748369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 1 aug 21.48 8:0 -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0f.0/host0/target0:0:0/0:0:0:0/block/sda < 1280748370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280748395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where in that did you say ata1.00 was < 1280748420 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280748432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and driver is sata_via iirc < 1280748846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think that the "ataN" numbering would be in the same order than what's in /sys/bus/scsi/devices, though there might be some differences in 0-/1-based indexing and/or if there's multiple SATA controllers around. < 1280748930 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280748998 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280749122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is a SATA controller and a PATA controller < 1280749244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw do you have any idea about this: < 1280749245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# lspci | grep ISA < 1280749246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation ICH9M LPC Interface Controller (rev 03) < 1280749251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is on a no-legacy thinkpad < 1280749266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some legacy I guess < 1280749268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that < 1280749301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an ISA bridge almost everywhere; often the temperature sensors/smbus/i2c/whatever are hooked to it. < 1280749329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801JDO (ICH10DO) LPC Interface Controller (rev 02) < 1280749332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm sensors does say coretemp-isa-0000 < 1280749340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt that one is actually ISA < 1280749360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinkpad-isa-0000, well I think that is virtualish. < 1280749384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I like your last work so far < 1280749611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the "-isa-" part there is trying to say; coretemp uses the rdmsr opcode to read the temperature. < 1280749890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICH's (a random version) data sheet says: "Low Pin count (LPC) Interface: Allows Connection of Legacy ISA and X-Bus devices such as Super I/O; Supports Two Master/DMA Devices". < 1280749920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the actual sensors in at least one of my (otherwise pretty un-legacy) boxes lives in the traditional ISA bus I/O range. < 1280750000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sensors-detect: < 1280750002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Driver `f71882fg': < 1280750002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * ISA bus, address 0x295 < 1280750002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Chip `Fintek F71862FG Super IO Sensors' (confidence: 9) < 1280750059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This was from that Atom box.) < 1280750121 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280750783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280751233 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280751250 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas < 1280751303 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h252.37.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280752638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems that thinkpad-isa is really provided by ACPI < 1280752754 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280752754 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280752754 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280752870 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280752878 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280753214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, there doesn't seem to be lm-sensors package for the N900, at least in the repo. It does have drivers for the sensors; there's /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon[01] (omap temperature sensor and something in the i2c bus), and I can even read current brightness and such from the files there, but there's no user-space command-line app. (There's some battery-graphing tools that I think monitor sensors too, and a port of http://conky.sourceforge.net/, but that's about it. < 1280754189 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280754613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it count as open-source if you distribute an executable for which there /is/ no source code? < 1280754779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what do you mean with no source? lost source? written in machine code directly with a hex editor? < 1280754792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former I would say no, the latter probably yes < 1280754796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written directly with a hex editor. < 1280754810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, depends on the license too < 1280754838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming all of those things. < 1280754908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSI's definition is: "The source code must be the preferred form in which a programmer would modify the program." < 1280754929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, uh... I guess it depends on which programmer you ask. < 1280755350 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E614E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280755622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't it also require that it has a free license? < 1280755629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as BSD or GPL or whatever < 1280756357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is using non-tail recursion A Bad Thing? < 1280756504 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1280756660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it requires all kinds of things; that was just the part defining "source code". < 1280757168 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: only for many function calls < 1280757205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :derdon, recursion tends to imply many calls. < 1280757225 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, not necessarily < 1280757244 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can define this typical recursive definition of a factorial < 1280757252 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and then compute the factorial of 5 < 1280757267 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280757281 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there are less function calls than with the factorial of 100 < 1280757285 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be clear < 1280757294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course. < 1280757389 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280757990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1280758005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh, it's a secret < 1280758234 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280758271 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280758479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280758567 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280759479 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-51.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280759817 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@188-22-125-141.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280759829 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'day < 1280760275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good day. < 1280761714 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280762197 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280762423 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, cabal (Haskell) and setuptools (Python) are too similar to be explained by coincidence. Who copied who? < 1280762536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who was first? < 1280762553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In an effort to prevent bots from registering and spamming up the forum, you are kindly requested to refrain from registering if you are incapable of feeling love. < 1280762564 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If this prevents you from registering and you are a human, maybe you should talk to someone about it." < 1280762578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do they test for it? < 1280762618 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the Turing test except... no, I cannot say. < 1280762846 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280762981 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280762998 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280763135 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1280763237 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280763433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random thought: conspiracy to commit a crime is itself a crime isn't it? < 1280763543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most cases, although it's a different crime < 1280763557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK, incidentally, conspiracy to defraud is illegal, but fraud itself isn't < 1280763572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so is conspiring to conspire to commit a crime a crime? < 1280763593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a weird glitch on the legal system < 1280763598 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's all get together and talk about defacing public property sometime < 1280763631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norway is currently having a slight problem with this: conspiring to commit terrorism is criminal, but planning to commit terrorism by yourself isn't (unless you actually go ahead and do it) < 1280763670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird... < 1280763672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they arrested three people who were supposedly terrorists, but they're having trouble proving more than one of them actually knew what was happening :D < 1280763716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means in principle _all_ of them might go free, even the main guy < 1280763732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since they never got to actually carry out the plan) < 1280764681 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote OK, so is conspiring to conspire to commit a crime a crime? Let's all get together and talk about defacing public property sometime < 1280764687 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :203| OK, so is conspiring to conspire to commit a crime a crime? Let's all get together and talk about defacing public property sometime < 1280766163 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280766899 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280767994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, Cat's Eye is a consultancy complany? < 1280768007 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, it used to be. < 1280768018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it now? < 1280768021 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do a lot of consulting these day. < 1280768023 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*days. < 1280768033 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is what it says on the front page now :) < 1280768122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A concern? < 1280768149 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, if someone requires my unique services and is willing to pay me for it, I'm open to discussion. But while I was working for corporations with "non compete" clauses I couldn't do any consulting work. < 1280768160 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a "concern". :) < 1280768179 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, found cpressey's linked-in page :) "Esoteric Programming Language Designer" is an awesome job title btw < 1280768196 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I take LinkedIn VERY seriously, you see... < 1280768198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that "konsern" in norwegian means a large corporation < 1280768213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, probably the same root. < 1280768239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1280768249 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't english 'concern' also have that meaning? < 1280768254 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "concern" is usually how "large corporation" is translated from Japanese to English, too. < 1280768275 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's such a general, ambiguous word in English. < 1280768290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c -> k,s according to pronunciation is a regular rule in norwegian spelling < 1280768351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it seems to mean a group of companies < 1280768390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concern_(business) seems to be a german borrowing < 1280768415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what business can you do with esolangs? < 1280768437 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You tell me! :) < 1280768446 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1280768457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, torture device? < 1280768482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So, you won't talk? Then implement quicksort in Lazy K!" < 1280768500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that article has some horrible grammar :D < 1280768527 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you start posting esolangs on the esolangs reddit you can at least get some reddit karma < 1280768668 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280768840 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@70-7-163-251.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280768854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an esolangs reddit? < 1280768869 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/esolangs/ < 1280768891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"conglomerate" seems to be a more precise english equivalent. maybe _too_ precise. < 1280768905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was about to ask why eso-std is mentioned, but it's apparently 2 years old < 1280768910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or narrow) < 1280768929 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an initial torrent of activity around the time it started, a couple of years later I made the first comment < 1280768967 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In English it can be used informally to refer to a single company or other organization < 1280769018 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, of course, in the very general sense of "nexus of interest", which is kind of how I was applying it. < 1280769264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure if you can say that in norwegian without being closer to either issue ("sak") or worry ("bekymring") < 1280769384 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the same applies to swedish < 1280769423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm looking at wiktionary interest ("interesse") might also apply < 1280769434 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oddly enough we have the verb concern (as 'koncernera') in swedish < 1280769459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in norwegian afaik < 1280769519 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's very seldomly used (would sound very swenglish, although it's very old and actually imported from german rather than english) < 1280769584 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has synonyms though - avse, angå, röra < 1280769593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might use berøre ("touch") < 1280769607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah angå as well < 1280770265 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280770512 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280771311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280771407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh, but "concern" would apply to catseye also in the "concern, worry, headache, vexation -- (something or someone that causes anxiety; a source of unhappiness; "New York traffic is a constant concern"; "it's a major worry")" sense pretty well, wouldn't it? < 1280771420 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yup :) < 1280771459 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wasn't that exactly what someone meant? < 1280771463 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever is to be done with all these esolangs? < 1280771480 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but cat's eye doesn't do anything now" -> "is that something to be worried about?" < 1280771700 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280771805 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280772445 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280775140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a minimum number of bits required for a Unicode character? < 1280775221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've promised that all Unicode characters will be in the range from 0 to 0x10ffff, if that's what you mean. < 1280775268 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if that's NOT what you mean, then yes but that's more a question about compression than about Unicode. < 1280775361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather large amounts of that range are currently empty, but of course they might fill them later. (Since they did jump from the original 16 bits to 17 planes of that size, I guess it's concievable that they might go all "whoops, we'll need a bit more range after all" again.) < 1280775376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, um. what encoding? < 1280775394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode is not an encoding after all... utf-8, utf-16, UCS4 and so on are < 1280775400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not encoding; just the codepoints. < 1280775401 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: As long as they don't introduce a typesetting equivalent of leap seconds... < 1280775440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably there's a specified largest codepoint, which can be represented with a fixed number of bits. < 1280775440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, I guess one but for the first two chars, two bits for the first 4 chars and so on :P < 1280775445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's a finite range, at least at the moment. < 1280775453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 0x10ffff, like I said. < 1280775456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah not in that sense < 1280775463 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the moment? They could embiggen it in the future? < 1280775479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why only 0x10ffff ? And not 0xffffff < 1280775482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They could replace the contents of the standard with base64-encoded porn in the future, if they want. < 1280775495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, they've sort-of promised they won't. < 1280775501 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good enough. < 1280775518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Expand it, I mean. I don't know if they've made any promises about the porn thing.) < 1280775562 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280775570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know why; there's the BMP and then 16 "supplemental planes" of the same size; 17*65536-1 gives 0x10ffff. < 1280775620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh < 1280775645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit curious that they defined 16 supplemental planes and not 15; with 15 it'd be a reasonable [0, 0xfffff] range. < 1280775665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 24 bits? < 1280775690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 bits. One nybble for the plane, 16 for index in it. < 1280775708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Planes 3-13 (in the numbering where BMP is 0, and the rest are 1...16) are unassigned at the moment, so it's mostly empty still. < 1280775744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought unicode was 32-bit... Now I'm all confused < 1280775769 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: plane 3 is finally being filled with some other anarchic ideographs. < 1280775771 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 maxes out at 21 bits. < 1280775777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1280775779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like you said, it's not an encoding; there's just the range of defined codepoints. < 1280775788 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's why there's so much empty space in atoms and galaxies -- reserved for future expansion. < 1280775792 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11110xxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx < 1280775870 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although a five-byte non-standard UTF-8 encoding would be pretty obvious: 111110xx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx < 1280775881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the six-byte, too. < 1280775892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that goes up to the full 32-bit range. < 1280775916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not. There's 31 "data" bits in a six-byte sequence. < 1280775939 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO CLOSE < 1280775952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't it so that the earlier UTF-8 spec did go up to 6 bytes? < 1280775961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The original specification allowed for sequences of up to six bytes covering numbers up to 31 bits (the original limit of the Universal Character Set). However, UTF-8 was restricted by RFC 3629 (Note: IETF doesn't define UTF-8, Unicode does) to use only the area covered by the formal Unicode definition, U+0000 to U+10FFFF, in November 2003." < 1280775966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it seems to have been. < 1280775973 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seven-byte, with the first byte containing no payload :P < 1280775991 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 31-bit limit seems to be a original codepoint space of UCS (before it kept synchronized to unicode) < 1280776003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: You could do that, but it'd be even more nonstandard, if that's a concept. < 1280776156 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eight-byte UTF-8 would break all the invariants though :( < 1280776183 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11111111 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx < 1280776202 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nine-byte is crazy stew. < 1280776244 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280776271 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I get "! Emergency stop." when entering "\relax" at the METAFONT prompt? < 1280776364 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Irony is still up to her old tricks, it seems. < 1280776397 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe \panic will reset the emergency brakes < 1280776399 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have tried entering other things too, I get the same error regardless of what command I enter. < 1280776416 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the same error with "\panic" < 1280776427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like anything else I try < 1280776870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\don't panic < 1280776960 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't going to work any better (I did try it anyways) < 1280777050 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Try "plain" ? < 1280777094 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I got a whole bunch of stuff but it still stopped < 1280777110 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OK, so at least that's something < 1280777113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I got various error messages < 1280777113 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got that from: http://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html?label=useMF < 1280777144 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including "! Missing `)' has been inserted." and "! Missing `=' has been inserted." and various other things. < 1280777156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find some sort of metafont example and build on that? It doesn't sound very feasible to just start typing stuff and find things out by trial-and-error, no matter how noble it sounds. < 1280777178 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did find an example, and the example told me to start by typing "\relax". < 1280777199 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad example! /me whacks example with newspaper < 1280777201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bit on MetaFont in this TeX book -- http://makingtexwork.sourceforge.net/mtw/ch11.html -- but it's mostly about how to run existing programs. < 1280777217 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Followed by "a+b-c=0;" < 1280777235 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However it stops after "\relax" so I can't get a chance to enter "a+b-c=0;" < 1280777308 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1280777316 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I must have forgotten to build the base files. < 1280777319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mf" here does what the example says it should. < 1280777331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Namely, change the prompt from ** to *.)' < 1280777413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which directories do I build the base with MiKTeX? Is there some environment variables I need to set? < 1280777506 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With TeX it works to enter "\relax" at the "**" prompt and then any TeX codes can be entered, and it won't be emergency stop until CTRL+C is pushed.) < 1280777524 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the feelin' yer askin' the wrong channel, pilgrim. < 1280777562 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I do too but what is the right channel? I can't find it < 1280777600 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: errr... have you tried in #latex ? < 1280777615 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a guess < 1280777644 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280777651 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I tried #TeX and #metafont < 1280777665 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I know. < 1280777667 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280778403 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have an itch to build an excessively convoluted command-line interface. < 1280778741 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after reading some more about php, I now have an itch to get rid of wordpress < 1280778769 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And rewrite it in Perl :P < 1280778780 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH BUT PHP IS BEAUTY INCARNATE < 1280778782 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not perl, anything except perl < 1280778794 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not python either < 1280778814 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real problem is that all languages suck. < 1280778817 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1280778844 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, why does PHP incur such hatred? < 1280778847 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some do suck less than others. < 1280778883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's mostly because it's a language which is easy to write badly in, commonly used by bad programmers, and also badly designed (especially wrt security) < 1280778886 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP's only real problems are that it's like a language from 1985 in terms of features and that its library is an enormous flat namespace. < 1280778898 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/about/php.html < 1280778906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namespacing never stopped CL... < 1280778929 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. Because everyone uses CL. < 1280778945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1280778975 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/CL/C/ < 1280779018 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even C has a better namespace story thanks to separate compilation. < 1280779052 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, the PHP while loop... what's sad is that it seems *every* feature of php has been implemented similarly < 1280779057 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is THAT. PHP is an interpreted language that doesn't even have separate compilation, go figure. < 1280779099 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem though is that every other language sucks too :P < 1280779112 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280779124 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the perfect languages suck! < 1280779139 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280779144 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMHO PHP is better for its purpose than Python, but worse for any other purpose, and both are terrible :P < 1280779147 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do any of the non-perfect but still non-sucky ones < 1280779199 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell doesn't suck. < 1280779200 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: you mean it's better than python for php's purpose or better than python is for *its* purpose? < 1280779202 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHA < 1280779225 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Better thab Python at being PHP :P < 1280779231 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than < 1280779243 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1280779275 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I DESPERATELY want somebody to write a Hackiki userland in Haskell :P < 1280779369 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be AWESOME < 1280779389 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: yeah yeah. So what would it take for a language to not suck?\ < 1280779405 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I agree, they all do. Even if some more than others. < 1280779426 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The soft ones are too soft and the hard ones are too hard. < 1280779441 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1280779443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they suck, ultimately, because you can't go straight from thoughts to code. < 1280779458 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof ain't it, as fun as it is :P < 1280779465 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, maintaining someone else's thoughts would be a nightmare. < 1280779482 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ... literally. < 1280779490 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah pretty much. < 1280779725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, define "perfect" for a language. < 1280779758 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is the problem that simple? X-P < 1280779773 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take all existing good-enough languages, eliminate their suckage, you should end up with perfection < 1280779928 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, but it won't compile. < 1280780151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what languages do you define as "good enough"? < 1280780177 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones that are good enough, of course < 1280780239 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they're "good enough" in wildly incompatible ways and for completely different reasons. < 1280780259 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok, of the ones I've tried, probably haskell is the only one that qualifies < 1280780273 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT GOOD ENOUGH < 1280780290 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C is pretty close due to its simplicity (but is lacking obvious enhancements that would make it good enough) < 1280780306 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof is the king of languages and the language of kings. < 1280780425 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about recursiveC: a C-based language in which you can define arbitrary code to be "static", and the output of that static code is code. You could implement e.g. OO as libraries. Compile to fixed-point! < 1280780459 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell, Python, Java, and C have a significantly lower rate of making me vomit than PHP, and C++ < 1280780479 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about Perl -- it's in between < 1280780495 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about Ruby either < 1280780502 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The core bytecode language is only a few hundred operations" :/ java makes do with just over 100 iirc, and that's with many operations duplicated for ints, longs, doubles, floats and objects < 1280780542 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: RecursiveC sounds like an idiomatically Gregoresque language. < 1280780585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: re recursiveC: DOUBLE COMPILE. (reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WxJECOFg8w and related) < 1280780710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280780713 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: C++ did that, but instead of overloading yet another meaning of 'static' they introduced a new keyword: 'template' < 1280780867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, Plof is far far too soft and recursiveC is far far too hard. < 1280780926 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect we still (as a species) have yet to learn how to specify programming languages well. < 1280780942 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "still have yet" is redundant. < 1280780952 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there, cpressey. :P < 1280781011 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it redundant? I think there's been a number of projects that tried to fix the "have yet to learn", but it didn't help and we *still* "have yet to learn" it < 1280781034 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, ok, maybe not. Awkward, though.... < 1280781119 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for most of the other aspects of making software IMO, "software engineering" = lol < 1280781233 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Agreed. < 1280781439 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Better is Worse": your tab completion is so clever, it hangs < 1280781592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*coughzshcough* < 1280781613 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, let's not forget, all shells suck, too. And editors. < 1280781637 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all wikis < 1280781642 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCEPT FOR HACKIKI < 1280782065 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesh < 1280782110 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: C++ totally does not fit my definition, you can't generate truly arbitrary C++ from templates < 1280782241 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oh and by the way, Java and Plof's bytecodes are roughly the same size in terms of total number of instructions, though what those instructions do is of course wildly different. < 1280782272 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be nice to have a pragma or such that says "Try to reduce this expression to a constant at compile time". Instead of something as heavy-handed as defining it as a macro. < 1280782286 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact ... come to think of it, I'm not sure where "few hundred" came from ... < 1280782321 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, you couldn't stop such a pragma from hanging on arbitrary code.) < 1280782359 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java has 204, so a bit more than just 100, but still "a few hundred" is a huge number of op-codes imo :) < 1280782389 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280782449 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The truthiness about the size of PSL: 88 core opcodes, plus 13 for the C foreign function interface (probably less for other potential FFIs) < 1280782453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, isn't your suggestion just Lisp's macro system wedged into C < 1280782454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280782478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CIL (that .NET thing) has 229 opcodes; it's in the same ballpark as the Java VM. < 1280782500 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CIL, aka the C# Virtual Machine. < 1280782527 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinda, but since the "static" code (choose a better keyword) is C, the behavior would be wildly different. < 1280782543 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And declaring that Lisp is the answer to all problems is the problem to all answers. < 1280782552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: In the sense that it would be a lot more painful to write, sure. < 1280782572 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just depends on how much jelly we're willing to nail to the tree of C to make it easier. < 1280782574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, you'd need to operate on the AST to avoid insanity, really. < 1280782597 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYS this is not a real idea it was just a joke I spat from my brain :P < 1280782597 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-153-53.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280782600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And making the AST part of the language standard is surely madness. < 1280782643 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: a joke? you should know you can't joke about stuff like that here < 1280782654 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, if somebody wants to write it, sweet. < 1280782682 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beer to Phantom_Hoover. < 1280782733 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about actually implementing something like that in my language at some point, but it would probably be limited to type functions and use some kind of quasi-quoting < 1280782775 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about implementing that in my language. Then: PLOF! :P < 1280782783 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1280782785 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is to say, that BECAME the language :P ) < 1280782798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't... oh never mind. < 1280782803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what's your language like? < 1280782836 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: somewhat like sugar and spice and all things nice < 1280782855 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's just a silly little language, nothing to worry about < 1280782891 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing to see here, move along, move along? < 1280782899 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280782934 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have an idea for a C-like language with explicit malloc and free but provably safe. But it wouldn't be doing this "staticification" thing so far as I know. < 1280783032 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :provably safe against which kinds of abuse? < 1280783040 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280783056 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280783065 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280783068 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, never executing any machine code that you didn't mean to. Buffer overruns and such. < 1280783101 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I figured you meant provably type-safe, never possible to dereference into data of one type while thinking it's another type. < 1280783109 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have this wussy concept of safe, then it might be more feasible. < 1280783139 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1280783159 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's type-safe for a certain type system. < 1280783170 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a very large or interesting type system... < 1280783179 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1280783193 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I <3 that argument < 1280783234 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you define the type system such that the language is type-safe, *poof*, type safety! :P < 1280783351 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280783854 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only 3 types: integers, structure of (type*), and pointer to type (which may or may not be valid.) But in that, it should be "type safe", including the property that you can't dereference an invalid pointer. < 1280784206 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll either need whole-program analysis, or for parameters to be marked "freeable" < 1280784228 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, for free to be a no-op :P < 1280784390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1280784429 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what you mean about marking parameters "freeable". The other two I know I'm not going to do... < 1280784542 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think I'll be doing that either. Speaking literally, any pointer could be free()d at any time. < 1280784607 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280784718 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So here's my basic fear and reasoning: struct nasty { void (*nasty)(); }; void evil(struct nasty *n) { free(n); malloc(somegarbageWhichWillNowTakeNsPlace); } void main() { struct nasty *n = malloc(sizeof(struct nasty)); n->nasty = something reasonable; evil(n); n->nasty(); } // how can you possibly avoid this case if you don't statically know whether evil() frees? < 1280784793 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can either disallow it, but it generalizes to "make any use of a pointer after aliasing it or using it as a parameter", or ... well, or nothing. < 1280784804 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for one, I don't have function pointers. But I suppose that's a theoretically moot point, but give me some time to mentally translate the problem. < 1280784884 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The function pointer was just to make it immediately obvious, it could be any pointer, maybe even other shtuff. < 1280784910 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you'd need to have some kind of ownership tracking and put that in the type system, wouldn't you? < 1280784914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, removing function pointers is if anything a step backwards. < 1280784938 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Well, perhaps I should qualify my use of the word "pointer". Pointers in my language don't map directly to machine pointers. They have some smarts in them. < 1280784967 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A step backwards? Define "forwards". < 1280784977 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless those "smarts" are a garbage collector, I doubt it's sufficient :P < 1280784994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, being able to pass functions as arguments is extremely useful. < 1280784998 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: K, well, I'm not certain myself. We'll see :) < 1280785012 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look forward to it. < 1280785185 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1280785494 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280785502 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280786846 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280786895 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280787074 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.111.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280787092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no beliefs that cannot be dissuaded with cake. < 1280787120 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What of the belief that you have no beliefs that cannot be dissuaded with cake? < 1280787125 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION offers alise some cake < 1280787133 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? Hm? < 1280787153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse the cake. < 1280787196 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drat. Well, twas worth a show. < 1280787200 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a shot < 1280787323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yer not the only one with a crazy OS, cpressey. >:| < 1280787330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am implanting evil ideas into Phantom_Hoover's head. < 1280787338 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover! < 1280787343 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, reflex. < 1280787345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:28:14 Ian? < 1280787350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can neither confirm nor deny. < 1280787351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wat. < 1280787369 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ask oerjan about Phantom_Hoover's mind control device sometime. < 1280787392 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now what about Ian? < 1280787406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1280787421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ian is someone's middle name whose initials are ais and who, on some university, has account number 523 of his initials. < 1280787424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will say no more! < 1280787464 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would certainly explain the middle initial, then. < 1280787815 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I only have aaaaaaaaaaaais for youuuuuuuuu (why did this pop into my head :P) < 1280788232 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280788853 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the mind-control device that lets Phantom_Hoover control other people's minds or the one that lets us control his mind? < 1280788880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ask oerjan! < 1280788915 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he the resident expert on Phantom_Hoover mind control? < 1280788934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's the only one that will talk about it. < 1280788999 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280790392 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280790502 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-203-58.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280790532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERNET < 1280790586 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY < 1280790663 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. < 1280790687 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280790691 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov2-wipp10.ogg kthx :P < 1280790695 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280790735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Did he actually have a script set to ping him for my joining? < 1280790781 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1280790791 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was just too lazy to type that URL on my phone :P < 1280790796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280790809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall listen to that after finishing Bohemian Rhapsody < 1280790818 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a long URL! D-8 < 1280790852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves having good Internet again < 1280790861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just Internet, but *good* Internet. < 1280790875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deciding to move 4 days before moving is t3h awesome. :P < 1280790905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So are you in Hick Town now, or Hicky Hick Town? < 1280790922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to your previous residence, Hicky Hick Hicky Hick Hicky Hick Hicky Hick (Hicky Hick)^G_64 Town? < 1280790926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm in a suburb of an actual (shock) city! < 1280790939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahahaha, but seriously now, which is it. < 1280790950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [pikhq] lindbohm.freenode.net :Stockholm, Sweden < 1280790952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question answered. < 1280790962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Server locations TOTALLY ARE people locations.) < 1280790993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote INTERNET YAY Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. < 1280791002 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :204| INTERNET YAY Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. < 1280791099 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, I'm in Oregon. < 1280791103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you realize that's just your server? < 1280791108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything in Oregon? < 1280791113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T KNOw < 1280791115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (Note: Server locations TOTALLY ARE people locations.) < 1280791122 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode whois doesn't tell you which server someone's on, just which server location you're on < 1280791125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Which Oregon? < 1280791129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1280791132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you said Portland. < 1280791134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in the Us. < 1280791146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: My answer, then, is that there is Portland, wherein there is David Parsons. < 1280791158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know who that is. < 1280791172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minimalist grumpy coder extraordinaire! < 1280791177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: So far (4:30), I quite like Opus 13, movement 2, WIP 10. < 1280791179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that guy whose name I forget. < 1280791187 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!*^&*@%@# < 1280791191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nick Welch. < 1280791201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is also a minimalist grumpy coder but less of both. (The TinyWM author) < 1280791210 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm from there! < 1280791231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... What the hell so many packets at once < 1280791243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: I was mentioning people worth knowing < 1280791249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I was talking about people < 1280791259 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1280791287 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor-Portlandi < 1280791290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: Aww I'm kidding you're adorable like a fluffy teddy bear, now where is the documentation for libavcodec? I can't find any. < 1280791291 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I be quoted twice in one day. < 1280791292 0 :Gregor-Portlandi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo < 1280791302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 199 < 1280791304 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :199| Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on < 1280791304 0 :Gregor-Portlandi!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor-P < 1280791308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 204 < 1280791310 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :204| INTERNET YAY Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. < 1280791312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 203 < 1280791317 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :203| OK, so is conspiring to conspire to commit a crime a crime? Let's all get together and talk about defacing public property sometime < 1280791328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DO NOT PUT THREE SPACES BETWEEN MESSAGES. < 1280791330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWO! TWO! < 1280791343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, YOU STOLE MY JUSTIFICATION STRETCHING < 1280791360 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I have the longest nick on this channel. Me < 1280791368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/!/ < 1280791376 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280791381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I suggest "pH". < 1280791387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pH < 1280791391 0 :pH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWW IT'S TAKEN. < 1280791394 0 :pH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is slick though. < 1280791395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :PH______________ < 1280791398 0 :PH______________!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! < 1280791405 0 :pH!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise < 1280791420 0 :PH______________!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is Very Untrustworthy < 1280791468 0 :PH______________!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :f < 1280791479 0 :f!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot believe this isn't taken. < 1280791482 0 :f!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe... < 1280791484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1280791488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's reserved. < 1280791492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like almost all single-char names. < 1280791498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The others are really-old-timers, or staff. < 1280791504 0 :f!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I can still take it... < 1280791504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly staff, and they never use it. < 1280791528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pH7 < 1280791541 0 :pH7!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise < 1280791578 0 :f!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1280791678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear God: < 1280791684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Please supply me with libavcodec documentation. < 1280791685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3, < 1280791685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1280791698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :God < 1280791698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear it has no official docs. < 1280791702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1280791704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should it? < 1280791714 0 :God!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my child, I can only manifest for 30 seconds < 1280791719 0 :God!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The docs are at... < 1280791721 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :write < 1280791726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Because it's the main part of FFmpeg, a super-major software project? < 1280791728 0 :God!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest26718 < 1280791734 0 :write!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot that I own this nick :P < 1280791742 0 :Guest26718!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :read < 1280791750 0 :read!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Moriarty < 1280791757 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OPEN!!!!! SOURCE!!!!! < 1280791768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: No dissing ffmpeg. That's Fabrice Bellard you're dissing there. < 1280791773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You Do Not Diss Fabrice Fucking Bellard. < 1280791783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Fabrice Bellard is not known for comprehensive documentation. < 1280791785 0 :Moriarty!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :grub < 1280791788 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No diss express or implied. < 1280791792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but he isn't them main FFmpeg dev any more :P < 1280791793 0 :write!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fabrice Fucking Bellard. Mmmmmmmmmmm < 1280791811 0 :write!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor-P < 1280791813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Gregor's gay fantasies are open source-related and preferably autosexual. < 1280791815 0 :grub!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest19696 < 1280791819 0 :Guest19696!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1280791821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or Apollo-related. < 1280791842 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not all of them! < 1280791855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, but you don't tell us about the rest. < 1280791930 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Can't I be a zealot about how DARE you ask for documentation on a product where you can read the KODE?? Oh, *can't* I? PulEEZE? < 1280791935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOGS that are simultaneously MACHINES. < 1280791945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dashing DOG Machines; they are invading our Planet. < 1280791957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Well, with a literate program, yeah, you could. :P < 1280791982 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NO. ALL DESCRIPTIONS OF THE CODE GO OUT OF DATE. ONLY CODE, CODE. IT IS TEH GOPSEL < 1280791994 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because the nick list of this channel IS the rest! < 1280792028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, what about theoretical females on the channel? < 1280792036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're gay fantasies too. < 1280792045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: You /could/ just be blatant about it and, say, propose a channel-wide orgy. < 1280792080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there actually any women on this channel? < 1280792089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Used to be. < 1280792089 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I PROPOSE A CHANNEL-WIDE ORGY however alise is not invited for legal, ethical and personal reasons. < 1280792090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only one I can think of seems to be lament. < 1280792099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: My heart is crushed. < 1280792158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: You understand if I stalk you down and murder you, right? < 1280792192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not if I murder YOU first. < 1280792221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, everyone in this channel can end up chasing each other and end up inadvertently having Gregor-P's planned orgy. < 1280792251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you're in the forbidden zone for the Device. < 1280792265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I USE THE DEVICE < 1280792268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever it is. < 1280792275 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, lament is not female. < 1280792319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I thought lament's real name was Nikita something? < 1280792336 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, and Nikita is not solely a female name. < 1280792344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh. < 1280792350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there are none... < 1280792370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280792375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is very much male :P < 1280792382 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is one of two other esolangers I've met in person. (The other was BEM.) < 1280792387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a certified Crazy Op, so BE CAREFUL < 1280792389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: BEM? < 1280792397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is he as unstable in real life? < 1280792398 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEM = Ben Olmstead, of Malbolge < 1280792400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy Op? < 1280792405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: He runs this chan. < 1280792408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not really. < 1280792410 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEM = Bug-Eyed Monster < 1280792410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1280792411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He de jure runs this chan. < 1280792428 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1280792438 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: He was very nice in real life. Ask him how unstable *I* am sometime :D < 1280792438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's the Mysterious Founder, then? < 1280792450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: andreou or someon < 1280792451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*someone < 1280792453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the exact name. < 1280792458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Aardappel was founder at one point. < 1280792473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of FALSE, Sauerbraten fame.) < 1280792473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who started the channel itself? < 1280792477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Andreou or someone. < 1280792477 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I would have thought "founder" was an immutable property. < 1280792479 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly me! < 1280792482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget precisely. It's in the list logs somewhere. < 1280792487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Welcome to ChanServ! < 1280792502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Please abandon your sanity at the door. If you don't have any, get some then abandon it. < 1280792561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see... channel founding is late 2002... < 1280792585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, where has it gone. < 1280792607 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the established point is that if we had a channel-wide orgy, we'd all be on equal footing :P < 1280792610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEre we go. < 1280792616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From: "Al. Andreou" < 1280792616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-X-Sender: < 1280792616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To: < 1280792616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subject: [chat] Esolang IRC channel < 1280792622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He set up the channel on EFnet as #esoterica. < 1280792634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament then suggested moving to the Open Projects Network (freenode). < 1280792640 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, X-X-Sender < 1280792648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andreou then refounded this very channel. < 1280792653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep /IRC/: http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/2002-q4 < 1280792656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Grep < 1280792670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aardappel was a founder at one point, I think; or at least an op. < 1280792698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, even in 2003/2004, lament was talking about how the channel is so dead nowadays. :) < 1280792714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the graphs say that activity has been steadily increasing since forever... < 1280792718 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have a grammar for Eightebed. It's 19 lines long. Now I have to implement it. < 1280792730 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a mailing list? or is that dead by now? < 1280792731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I have a feeling Eightebed is not your most thoughtful esolang yet. < 1280792734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, it exists < 1280792749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if you sign up, every few months -- years, sometimes -- you get a quick thread of fun with some nice faces shown < 1280792752 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's not super esoteric, no. < 1280792759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the price is a 2000% increase in spam box traffic < 1280792765 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: heh, ok < 1280792765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: (barely even an exaggeration) < 1280792769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's fine if you have gmail. :P < 1280792781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: But it must be ENLIGHTENING! < 1280792808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry; EIGHTEBEDING! < 1280792829 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's a design in response to Gregor's comments about why a language like Cyclone should have GC. (It's a language with explicit malloc/free, with only a modicum of static analysis, but which is nonetheless safe.) < 1280792855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what Cyclone is. < 1280792864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, pah, I hereby copyright Eightebed(C). < 1280792864 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@32.165.112.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280792865 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/should/must/ < 1280792869 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should have put "should" in quotes -- see log over past few days for the various views of the parties mentioned. < 1280792869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I am copyrighting names now. < 1280792874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also trademarking. And registered trademarking. < 1280792879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eightebed(C)(R)(TM). < 1280792894 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like being forced to do things < 1280792903 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What must I do to get your permission to use the name Eightebed then? < 1280792920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I have the Device. < 1280792927 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover! < 1280792932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see that you do. < 1280792950 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is Sgeo here? < 1280792955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you see, it follows the inverse square law. < 1280792965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It involves five yaks, a Golden toad that hasn't eaten for five days, five boxes of antique confetti (not stripped of uranium), dye number 90 (blood green), a very confused weasel, and three pieces of A4.15 paper. < 1280792970 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running it on alise would be... ugly. < 1280792983 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But Sgeo is AFK. There is only SgeoN1 < 1280793004 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And XUL < 1280793019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, you reference Mozilla namespace pages before Ghostbusters. < 1280793027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Can you supply these things? < 1280793040 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well then! I may have to consult my lawyer. Who, thankfully, is also my yak husbander. < 1280793052 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was aware that the XUL thing was a reference of some sort... < 1280793064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: You've never seen Ghostbusters? < 1280793069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me that you have seen Ghostbusters. < 1280793082 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The confetti will be hard to acquire. The weasel's state of confusion, however, should not. < 1280793091 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1280793105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Okay, so that is why you are so strange. < 1280793110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: I prescribe one dosage of Ghostbusters. < 1280793112 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, you haven't seen Ghostbusters? < 1280793115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1280793117 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: ... You have been living under a rock. < 1280793118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Actually. Make that two. < 1280793131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, haven't seen the second one. < 1280793140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1280793142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean two dosages. < 1280793147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I request that all harm is done to animals in the making of this production. < 1280793149 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280793180 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280793200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, can we use the Device for doing harm? < 1280793211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: /I have no idea what you are talking about./ < 1280793224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, of course not. < 1280793233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Device has a habit of causing that. < 1280793269 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCP-055? < 1280793283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1280793291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten myself. < 1280793314 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgotten what? < 1280793335 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1280793398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is definitely not a cube. Whatever it was I was talking about is definitely not a cube. < 1280793414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, SCP-055 is simply designed so that it slips right off the human mind, while the Device is rather more... proactive. < 1280793422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the world's most evil sex toy. < 1280793454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not originally. It might be repurposable to that end. < 1280793473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how to make the first line of a LaTeX paragraph all in small-caps? < 1280793496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were the resident LaTeX knowitall. < 1280793524 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders making an epub of the FLR < 1280793596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: LaTeX the FLR. Oh god, I must do that. < 1280793607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nah; know it a little, but... < 1280793624 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves before he finds out what "the FLR" is < 1280793626 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280793644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agora, sheesh! :P < 1280793669 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, FLR? < 1280793676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, maybe? < 1280793683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The Full Logical Ruleset of Agora Nomic. < 1280793707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full Logical? < 1280793714 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280793717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This month's copy of the FLR, I presume? < 1280793731 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280793747 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280793772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Maybe I could AUTOMATE IT. /salivates < 1280793779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, provide little page numbers above rule references! < 1280793786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's logical because it is. It's full because it includes rule history. < 1280793790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Short Logical Ruleset doesn't. < 1280793792 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that will be done when I am in charge: all image transforms will be banned. < 1280793910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, all image transforms in the context of photographs of oneself. < 1280794034 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming it would be automated < 1280794056 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make epubs from LaTeX? I'd assume so... < 1280794090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Uh, maybe. < 1280794095 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280794102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I need typographical opinions! If you are using drop caps, and start a chapter with a quote mark, how to set it? < 1280794110 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there used to be chronological rulesets. I glanced at Agoranomic back in 2003 or 2005 or so. < 1280794117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should the drop cap be {``E}? If so, does the `` extend into the margin? (Yes.) < 1280794125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should it be {E}, with a normal `` in the margin preceding it? < 1280794131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the latter, how can I achieve this with LaTeX/ < 1280794173 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280794250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*LaTeX? < 1280794255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm pretty sure it should be drop-cap'd {``E}, with `` extended into the margin. < 1280794264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How you achieve this, I know not. < 1280794270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But then the closing '' looks unbalanced. < 1280794377 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280794390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but... Everything else is ugly. < 1280794397 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280794411 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280794413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small quote mark? *ugh* < 1280794469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, it could work, if in the margin. < 1280794479 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing I shouldn't be the one to epub-ify the FLR, given my cluelessness when it comes to typography < 1280794549 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it would make me as famous as comex! Ok, not really, but I'm jealous < 1280794665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a fucking iPhone jailbreak. < 1280794689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Wii hacking. < 1280794819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That garners rather less fame. < 1280794932 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: chroniclor < 1280794961 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds more like an office < 1280794972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1280794976 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should take it < 1280794977 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do it < 1280794979 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, CFJs should be epubbed < 1280794979 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and become famous < 1280794980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION indents his first paragraph in latex < 1280794984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*her < 1280794987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Because it's only one line. < 1280795022 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1280795041 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd only be Agoranomic...known < 1280795064 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My phone has agoranomic as an autocorrect < 1280795309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Bjorn is the worst poet ever. < 1280795439 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280795635 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280795895 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1280795914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280796007 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no < 1280796027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No what? < 1280796032 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the worst poet ever < 1280796039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh really? < 1280796039 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst poet ever died when Earth exploded obv < 1280796055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Incorrigible shopkeeper thou, < 1280796055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cannot even fields plow: < 1280796055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :‘Dear sir, I must be sure < 1280796055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you frolick and play in manure?’ < 1280796055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a question I’m sure you’re oft asked; < 1280796056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this divine duty with which I’m tasked? < 1280796058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To retrieve my stolen Device.” < 1280796078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Douglas Adams cannot emulate a truly terrible poet as well as a bad poet can. < 1280796165 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280796300 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280796334 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to test our home-built 8088 computer? < 1280796464 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cutr.pl/dd54681099 <- the core :D < 1280796698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would, if I understood it. < 1280796708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be like Dickens, and release my terrible novels in serial form. < 1280796721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here I present the first instalment of A Device Lost, a Bjorn tale! < 1280796722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/rhgbku/bjorn.pdf < 1280796747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Bjorn has Infinite Personality Disorder. < 1280796806 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's almost like oooold IBM PC < 1280796823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bjorn would never use a computer he couldn't eat. < 1280796824 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was the actual photo of working processor < 1280796841 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280796855 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, disorder, i see < 1280796913 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1280797461 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280797659 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1280798746 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280798990 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cutr.pl/5cffb3360e behold < 1280799873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/NtXHf.png < 1280800589 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1280800618 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/teddynom.gif < 1280800619 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was to build a lisp machine < 1280800635 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably look exactly like QED < 1280800726 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1280800774 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: would you like to test this lovely bunch of ICs and wires? < 1280800802 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1280800809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN I TEST IT WITH MY TONGUE? < 1280800823 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but you can ssh the maintenance machine < 1280800834 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and PROGRAM it < 1280800838 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1280800843 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROGRAM IT WITH CODEZ < 1280800855 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just check out early code samples < 1280800876 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just check out motd < 1280800895 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just check out < 1280800898 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just check < 1280800901 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just < 1280800902 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1280800904 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1280800984 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1280801110 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :³ < 1280801279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if i was to build a lisp machine < 1280801279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it would probably look exactly like QED < 1280801281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sense of QED? < 1280801352 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280801353 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED is the name of that 8088 computer i showed you < 1280801359 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quantum Explosion Dynamp < 1280801361 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dynamo < 1280801777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:59:59 Haskell doesn't suck. < 1280801779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WRONG. < 1280801915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:23:05 Gregor-P: re recursiveC: DOUBLE COMPILE. (reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WxJECOFg8w and related) < 1280801921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gosh. It's compiled twice. < 1280801969 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1280802032 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursiveC? < 1280802117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/10.08.02. < 1280802139 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RecursiveC is a hypothetical C-based language with "static" parts that are bits of C code that output C which replaces the original code. Run those static bits over and over 'til you reach fixed-point, then voila! You could implement OO in header files :P < 1280802206 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP? < 1280802248 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... huh? < 1280802307 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing :D < 1280802400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is a dangerous drug. < 1280802433 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it < 1280802749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/cwep1/the_neverending_finite_loop/c0vt9vf?context=4 < 1280802754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badum-tish < 1280803112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infi-Loop I always use... < 1280803113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 1; < 1280803113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(x > 0) { if (x < 2) x++; else x--; } < 1280803113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--reddit < 1280803118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This person has never even considered while(1). < 1280803489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that poster was joking? < 1280803757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope so. < 1280803890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to be up in a bit less than 6 hours. < 1280803893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should bed soon. < 1280803962 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280804874 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280804958 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280804978 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280804994 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280805053 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280805536 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280805543 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280806568 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280806588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1280806593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodday. < 1280806596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1280806598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280806713 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to design a font using METAFONT (once I figure out how; neither this channel nor the #LaTeX channel was of much help), http://sprunge.us/OiNh is that a good encoding of list of chaacters to be included? < 1280806748 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't exactly know how some of these should look though < 1280806773 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280806796 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, other than a few obvious ones, which might be taken from Computer Modern and then changed a bit < 1280806806 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280806831 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is blackboard bold, does that mean somebody will invent whiteboard bold? < 1280806841 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280806850 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1280806876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of Unicode. < 1280806878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do it well. < 1280806886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially don't know the control graphics < 1280806921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can't do all of unicode, that is a lot. I only want a subset, which might however include some things that are not part of unicode < 1280806980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if unicode has Greek blackboard bold, for one thing, and I don't know if these control graphics would be the same as unicode, my idea was using some special symbols to represent these control graphics instead of the way unicode does it) < 1280807026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you might have noticed or not, the control graphic numbers are the same as the lowercase letters for those codes in a C program, for the ones that are usable in C strings. < 1280807050 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :('\e' is GNU C only, but I included it so that it can be used with GNU C) < 1280807140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the things in WEBMATH are already included in AMS, but I want one usable with Plain TeX and only one font for all the extra stuff < 1280807203 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many codes does Unicode have these days, anyways? < 1280807296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tons. < 1280807314 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how many? One million? < 1280807318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some 75% of it is Han Unified Ideographs... < 1280807330 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280807339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :107,361 as of October 2009. < 1280807347 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1280807348 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is going to eat his first hamburger soon < 1280807361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: ... Your *first* hamburger? < 1280807368 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad says I've eaten hamburgers before, but I don't remember < 1280807371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you're in... America. < 1280807375 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: When are you going to eat your first "burgerham"? < 1280807392 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad has been paranoid about mad cow disease < 1280807395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, what? < 1280807405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I understand (I think) < 1280807405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode has 246,943 assigned codes < 1280807442 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: When do you ever think it will reach one million if it ever does? < 1280807457 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's not going to be in hamburger buns, just slices of bread ;( < 1280807466 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, :( < 1280807474 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Tell us EVERY DETAIL of your FIRST HAMBURGER EVAR < 1280807479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: How do you *avoid* eating hamburgers in the USA? < 1280807480 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: long time < 1280807500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a bit like avoiding seeing a fat person. < 1280807554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Freenode whois doesn't tell you which server someone's on, just which server location you're on < 1280807580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're on jordan.freenode.net in france. hth. < 1280807617 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I wanted to do is make a WEBMATH font (I might need help in many different ways), and then add a option in the next version of Enhanced CWEB to make it use this font, and then instead of overtyping the \ and n on each other it can use the TYPEWRITER CONTROL GRAPHIC NEW LINE OR LINE FEED character from the WEBMATH font. < 1280807623 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh < 1280807628 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe seven doesn't have that feature < 1280807641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that was about when it changed < 1280807646 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The WHOIS does tell you. < 1280807667 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the 312 line. < 1280807675 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but for a while (probably on the old ircd) it would always reply with the server you were on, not the server the target of the request was on < 1280807688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, it works now (at least for me) < 1280807692 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, me too < 1280807721 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also, CJK ideographs fall just short of 75% < 1280807724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall it replied with irc.freenode.net for a while < 1280807736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Aaaaw. < 1280807751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Throw in kana and bopomofo, and what do you get? :P < 1280807776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 75% :D < 1280807784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I posted this as my Facebook status: "I'm unhappy that UTF-8 can't be extended indefinitely. Eight-byte UTF-8 wouldn't break too many invariants, since the value 255 never appears in conforming standard UTF-8, but nine-byte UTF-8 would almost unavoidably create ambiguities with two-byte UTF-8 :(. 42 payload bits is NOT ENOUGH. When we have to tell our new alien overlords that we can't fit their language into our encoding sch < 1280807784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eme, they're gonna be PISSED." < 1280807787 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two people have "liked" it. < 1280807794 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite sure that neither of them have any idea wtf I'm talking about :P < 1280807795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are according to wikipedia 74384 ideographs and 107361 characters < 1280807814 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: extending UTF-8 is easily done < 1280807832 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To eight bytes, yes. To nine bytes, no. < 1280807881 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you care about the invariants < 1280807886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, yeah, you're stuck at 7 < 1280807898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nine bytes is a TRIVIAL extension. We deprecate UTF-8 and move on to UTF-G_64. < 1280807901 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. If we're gonna break all the invariants, what's the point :P < 1280807910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1280807920 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, nah, it's easy < 1280807939 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0b11111111 says that the next byte says how many more bytes are part of the same character :D < 1280807949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and they all start with 0b10 < 1280807978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way you can extend to more than nine bytes, then. < 1280807998 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0 means to look again < 1280808007 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the next 2 bytes < 1280808009 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1280808016 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can run the sequence up indefinitely < 1280808020 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hmmmm, you've stuffed another layer of encoding into UTF-8, awesome X-d < 1280808022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*X-D < 1280808177 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the 7-bit WEBMATH I don't have anything in 0x6D 0x6F 0x70 0x71, and in 8-bit I don't have anything in the high codes, but if you can make suggestion I can write it in < 1280808235 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if anything I already have duplicates Computer Modern, I should also change it < 1280808255 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEBMATH? < 1280808328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey, I thought lament's real name was Nikita something? < 1280808333 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I want to invent a font called WEBMATH and can be used in TeX and METAFONT < 1280808334 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/OiNh < 1280808344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous hot russian female: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-B0628-0015-035,_Nikita_S._Chruchstschow.jpg < 1280808355 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the list, you can see some spaces are not filled in yet < 1280808434 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you use a font in METAFONT < 1280808438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know some of the characters duplicate ones in AMS, but I want this to be able to be used without AMS) < 1280808448 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I do not support this project < 1280808466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You can write the codes for it, and then write other codes to make it load into TeX and other programs < 1280808474 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how you use a font in METAFONT. < 1280808477 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fonts that do not respect Unicode should be shot < 1280808496 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was eh < 1280808516 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That makes sense in most cases to use Unicode fonts, but TeX isn't Unicode based, so instead we put 256 characters in one font < 1280808546 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why aren't you using iTeX yet? < 1280808559 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iTeX? < 1280808609 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro's method seems like it would be rather big < 1280808623 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to use iTeX, I want to use Plain TeX < 1280808625 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think by the time you get up to 9 bytes another encoding method would be preferable for efficiency reasons < 1280808649 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: THINK OF THE CHILDREN < 1280808652 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..on the other hand, if you're using 9 bytes to represent one character, i guess another byte is having less of an effect at that point than it would be if you were using only two < 1280808807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: XeTeX is Unicode based. Suck it. < 1280808852 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at the iTeX description, and it completely makes nonsense! < 1280808879 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can XeTeX work with Plain TeX? < 1280808889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280808949 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What differences does XeTeX have from normal TeX? < 1280809020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses Unicode as its encoding, it supports OpenType fonts directly, and it outputs to PDF. < 1280809124 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then that means I can't use DVI with it? < 1280809138 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it also mean METAFONT can't be used with it? < 1280809173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also supports METAFONT. < 1280809177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't do DVI. < 1280809182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVI is an archaicism, anyways. < 1280809316 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I still prefer the normal TeX system. < 1280809349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does LaTex use? Does it fit over any of these.. thingies, or is it TeX-only? < 1280809379 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, if you haven't seen, it, you need to watch http://river-valley.tv/media/conferences/tug-2010/Don-Knuth/ < 1280809428 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia article for XeTeX says it uses LaTeX < 1280809475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned some things about METAFONT, I think it is not a bad program for designing fonts, however I cannot get it to work < 1280809476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now 20 different types of confused < 1280809486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon I'll be confused tracking all the ways I'm confused! < 1280809487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: LaTeX is a set of macros for TeX. < 1280809955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION terminally fails at references < 1280809962 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I like about Plain TeX opposed to LaTeX, is that in Plain TeX I can run "tex" only once and still have all cross-references and everything correct, with no auxiliary files. < 1280810528 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I like Plain Text. < 1280810618 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did they make LaTeX require multiple passes and a separate program to make index, and so on? < 1280810787 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do I need to make METAFONT work on MiKTeX? < 1280810839 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you watched the video yet? < 1280810876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The video won't play < 1280810885 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1280810896 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's Flash < 1280812297 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got METAFONT to work now, but it still doesn't work in interactive mode? < 1280812392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can fonts with METAFONT be converted to other formats, in case some other programg uses other formats? < 1280812730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to make ePub files by hand! < 1280812738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280812748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I won't, but I will attempt to make an automated epub creator for Agoran Rulesets < 1280812762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can ePubs reference other books? I doubt it, but that would be awesome for the Agoran stuff < 1280812773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crosslinks between CFJs and the FLR < 1280812820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If your book is in the HTML format, you can use Book Glutton to convert it to ePub" < 1280812846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better idea < 1280812851 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's make a SVG version < 1280812865 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way we can make it as small as we want it ;) < 1280812880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ePub will be very useful to me soon < 1280812890 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1280812910 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting an eReader soon hopefully < 1280812912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280812940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, def. want custom thing for the FLR... there's a Table of Contents thing in the spec, apparently < 1280812943 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I find it funny that we as a people are now starting to move away from PDF because it does exactly what it was designed to do) < 1280813189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BookGlutton costs $5 :( < 1280813191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ty < 1280813256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, if I got a Nook, would I be able to have it automatically retrieve the latest version of the ePub somehow? < 1280813328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders how far back RTRR goes < 1280813335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 ePub for each RTRR! < 1280813861 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was coppro playing Mafia? < 1280813871 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With people I don't recognize? < 1280813875 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1280813889 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found a text file wolfgame.txt < 1280813892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like an IRC log < 1280813902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, by that name, I guess you call it Werewolves < 1280813916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1280813936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea < 1280813948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can list names of the participants though < 1280813964 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you have found a file but not know where you found it? < 1280813964 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modargo, Narrator, Crispy-, coppro, Coboney, Leecifer < 1280813969 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1280813975 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was #wolf of EFNet < 1280813992 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most importantly: Why do I have a log of this? < 1280814008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was in my Downloads folder... < 1280814042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I linked it? < 1280814060 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you send me a copy? Maybe there is something special about it < 1280814140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, email it to you? < 1280814157 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1280814241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sent < 1280814263 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDF has too many stupid features in my opinion < 1280814290 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1280814293 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... I remember that game < 1280814298 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing particularly remarkable about it < 1280814323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue why you'd have a log < 1280814427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain TeX is much more better than LaTeX why don't you believe it? < 1280814478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just wants to make epubs < 1280814557 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is epubs? < 1280814593 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A file format usable by most ereaders < 1280814597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epub < 1280814633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the Map of Agora isn't exactly reflowable < 1280814674 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does epub work? < 1280814716 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrugs* < 1280814807 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it like HTML or like PDF or DVI or like bitmap picture files, or how does it work? < 1280814933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like HTML than like bitmaps < 1280814952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very much like HTML, I think, actuallhy < 1280814967 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is its feature support, colors, fonts, printout, etc? < 1280815025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue < 1280815354 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I can make Icoruma->ePub, even, if I want to, or if anyone else wants to write a converter program for Icoruma documents. So, it would be useful if you wanted to write the rules for a role-playing game on ePub < 1280815909 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone implemented any variant of INTERCAL in TeX? < 1280816714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what do you have against Python? < 1280816733 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I just don't like it much. C is more better in my opinion. < 1280816762 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have nothing against Python, though. < 1280816774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This user is made out of userboxes < 1280816840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you looking at my Wikipedia? < 1280816860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1280816898 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1280816913 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280816914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Feel free to change it if you don't like it; it is a wiki page and anyone can edit it) < 1280816942 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I change it? It's a page about you! < 1280816958 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because you found a mistake in it, perhaps? < 1280816988 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or to make improvement? < 1280817009 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a userbox for TeX? < 1280817011 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the only mistake that could be present in a page of userboxes is a syntactical failure to include a userbox properly < 1280817185 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280817343 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to add, remove, change, and improve. Just don't deny anyone else these same rights, including the right to distribute and use it. That is all I ask. If you want to call it your own, go ahead. If you want to sell it and earn a lot of money from it, that is OK, too. Just don't deny other people these same rights. < 1280817452 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280817638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280817657 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280817738 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is userboxes related to LaTeX, but not for Plain TeX. < 1280817743 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should add some < 1280819075 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280820079 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1280822086 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280822399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1280822400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280823801 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280825032 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280825659 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280825671 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280826851 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-233.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280827889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280828376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280828390 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280829053 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280829566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280829600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280830227 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280830505 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1280830505 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: eval ( 4 ( atan 1)) ( if ( equal? ( 3 4))? i < 1280830524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1280830524 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1280830580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, don't go into programming. < 1280830580 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: im no good at it too, fnord... um... 2 lectures or so, which one should i install in /usr/ lib < 1280830598 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, exactly. < 1280830742 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also pondering making an epub of all of the CFJs in Murphy's db < 1280830785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why you'd want to install a lecture in /usr/lib < 1280830791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL object-orientation reference? < 1280830903 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, considering epub'ing the SLR instead of the FLR < 1280831054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, answer ais' question. < 1280831054 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: java isn't too bad.' this is valid. < 1280831075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, well, I'm sure ais would agree... < 1280831087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as bad as people make it out to be < 1280831105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's far from the ideal programming language < 1280831116 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it might be better to programmatically create DocBook stuff < 1280831128 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since there's an easy DocBook -> EPUB converter < 1280831335 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you there? < 1280831344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? < 1280831348 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNGOT! < 1280831394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: fungot has an anti-spam thing, it won't respond to the same person too many times in a row < 1280831395 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like a caged environment for innocent little newbie schemers to keep them in mind :) ttyl i'm going to < 1280831416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you, fungot. < 1280831417 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: fnord wanted dialog...... huh......really? oh a net address! oh, the question needs to be < 1280831429 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is that so? < 1280831759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fisher < 1280831759 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations) < 1280831770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Maybe you could be a bit more casual there. < 1280831770 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: exactly and and the cases they deal with are usually very depressing < 1280831884 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell is npviewer.bin? < 1280831893 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION depresses fungot  < 1280831893 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you hit on a really like annoying cliff hanger like not like you go to the next place and then the < 1280831918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ingenious < 1280831923 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we know fungot is a teen girl < 1280831923 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you know i'm making dinner table or something you know and and < 1280831927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sentence talking about a really annoying cliff hanger < 1280831938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then stopping just before it explains what the cliff hanger is < 1280831967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the fungot version of "how do you keep an idiot in suspense?" < 1280831967 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ( ( fitness and health)) i've ( ( wanted)) to talk to you again laughter but be careful seriously oh that's wonderful < 1280831969 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ Directed by M. Night Shyamalan ] < 1280832041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :npviewer.bin is usually Flash. < 1280832050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a "Netscape Plugin", after all. < 1280832093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think it's nspluginwrapper's thing around the 32-bit Flash on a x86-64 system.) < 1280832131 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280832590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, OK. < 1280832735 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280832779 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280833399 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280833412 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280834194 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280834830 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does fungot work? it takes sentences from the logs? < 1280834830 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it just seems like you know like < 1280835004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it has a bunch of data; IRC logs is its current data source < 1280835009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can set it to other things too < 1280835011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style agora < 1280835011 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical) < 1280835028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, now it's drawing from current and historical rulesets of Agora < 1280835031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: say something < 1280835031 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a frankenstein monster, and the minimum hand size shall be four classes of cards exist than its own content, and < 1280835045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it looks for common words at different places in the data source < 1280835056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and jumps from bit to bit as long as there are words in common < 1280835061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the result makes sense locally, but not globally < 1280835095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it was optbot which quoted random literal lines from logs, rather than merging many together like fungot does < 1280835095 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but after taking all other rules, or < 1280835139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: is that a clear enough explanation? < 1280835717 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280835820 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280835829 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280835836 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280835885 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280837151 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1280837231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Emacs removed all of their yows but one for copyright reason, < 1280837237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,/s/ < 1280837259 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280837557 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280838232 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E5C42.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280838253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm beginning to think that this department has trouble tracking personell < 1280838256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*personnel < 1280838261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, they seem to forget I exist < 1280838280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, we get an email saying "if you notice someone new working in your office, send round an email to introduce them" < 1280838604 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280838713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280838719 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280839491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, after randomly browsing reddit, I just had a really evil idea < 1280839510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you do is, you decide that you want a class that contains, say, run() and eval() methods < 1280839531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you get your OO language (say Java) to load every class it can access, and inspect it to see if it has those methods < 1280839539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it does, you instantiate it and then run the methods < 1280839545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what could possibly go wrong? < 1280839555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bonus: this is actually how object orientation works in CLC-INTERCAL) < 1280839579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although at least it checks whether there's only one appropriate class, first) < 1280839842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you sensibly enumerate classes in Java, though? Reflection via a ClassLoader lets you look things up by name, but I'm unsure about listing them. < 1280839872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just try all possible legal identifiers in sequence < 1280839890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the brute-force method. < 1280839951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, you could use a bit of knowledge about how the default ClassLoader works, and just look through the entire filesystem to get the names of things that could be potentially loaded < 1280839953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use those < 1280840027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember looking for a "list all classes you so far know about" method in java.lang.Package, but there wasn't any; even though there's a static java.lang.Package.getPackages() which asks the ClassLoader to list all packages it has seen. < 1280840324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The AI competition game GUI app looks for all .jar files in the current directory and its immediate subdirectories; for each .jar it peeks at the manifest for metadata that indicates a bot. I didn't really want people to have to fiddle with classpaths or so if they wanted to try out a bot-.jar they had. < 1280841040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280841264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of fungot, the explanation up there is conceptually speaking feasible, although if you want to pick some nits, technically speaking it's not "jumping from bit to bit", but instead it collects frequency counts for all n-tuples of consecutive words (where n is about 3 or 4 or so), and then just decides next word randomly based on the frequencies of all (say) 4-tuples where first three words match the current context. < 1280841264 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " first-class person becomes a registered player, by announcing that e insists. a player is ineligible to < 1280841416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it comes to the same thing, but it's a rather different implementation from what I suggested < 1280841481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course everyone can just take a peek at the sources to immediately see the implementation strategy. < 1280841514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's even a comment in there. < 1280841544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmn, it seems that the comment simply says "pickword:", which might be a bit ambiguous. < 1280841820 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280842106 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280842118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280843386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1280843456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280843472 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280843547 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280843710 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-186.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280843768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280844063 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1280844992 0 :mquin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Changing server < 1280845078 0 :mquin!~freenode@freenode/staff/mquin JOIN :#esoteric < 1280847341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280847516 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280847517 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1280847895 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280848226 0 :Ilari_!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1280848753 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280848864 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari_antrcomp < 1280848864 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1280848970 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280849510 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280851471 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280851588 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280853783 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280855083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280855200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing is happening. fungot, rectify this. < 1280855200 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: any order issued, the date of the period of < 1280855215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who made his style boring? < 1280855356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is the one who agorafied him. < 1280855359 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl < 1280855359 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) < 1280855373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Now you're the definition of excitement and unborigness. < 1280855375 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the impressive number of projects in the energy efficiency measures have not halted, still less for commercial or economic reasons. veritable ' dictatorship' by the stock exchange lists of all european agriculture systems and not just for those in financial difficulty. we hope that, because trafficking in human beings < 1280855434 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Who's trafficking in human beings? Is this some sort of preliminary stage of the coming robot revolution? < 1280855435 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, first i should like to thank the commissioner for the attention they are given recognition on this level. we welcome the consideration of environmental integration than on other reform aspects. we are not the guilty party. for those engaging in these activities are carried on in denmark, as jens-peter bonde emphasised, and other elements as well. < 1280855462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He sounds *just* like a politician this way. < 1280855676 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280855744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what activities are carried out in Denmark? < 1280855747 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i declined to vote in favour of the proposal on biofuels, which i cannot accept amendments nos 11, 15, 26, 28, 33, 36 to 43 and, in accordance with the compromise that we reached, fortunately, we were discussing a different proposal and this report, and a rights guarantee system. we will not be the case but they must be built upon in vienna, so that we can avoid a number of consumer protection and to preserving < 1280855823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the danish human trafficking, obviously < 1280855832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Is something rotten in the state of Denmark? < 1280855834 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, i would add the injury of indifference to the well-being of patients suffering from inherited diseases have been told here that national legislation on pay, and those that follow will help us to ensure that there is room for the benefit of the alcohol market is satisfactorily addressed by this proposal for codecision is the result of the way there. turning to another important european union decision: enla < 1280855949 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what about enla? < 1280855950 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :si.zb: mr president, commissioner, the aid procedure. my concern, personally, i believe, on the basis of the international conventions, needs for protection and family reunification. < 1280855971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, you met a bug. < 1280855997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no, that's my true name < 1280856011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay; then it's just the usual clairvoyancy thing. < 1280856014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't part of any mortal character encoding. < 1280856147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"93 9f 97 84 82 95 9b 8b 99 73 98 69 8d 9a 9e 2e 7a 92 88 91 8c 62"; that's not a very obvious sequence of bytes. < 1280856237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, so, what else do you know? < 1280856237 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, i would like to congratulate mr blokland on the classification of european export shares to asia as a proportion of publicly financed social and economic difficulties there, its crisis of political confidence and its restrictions of democratic freedom, which only brings together members of the new millennium < 1280856345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All hail Mr. Blokland; sounds like a LEGO thing. < 1280856356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another danish scheme < 1280856389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :financing asian social and economic difficulties < 1280856475 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280856478 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280856479 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what are Denmark planning? < 1280856480 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: in its short justification, the committee on budgetary control, we should be penalising employers who shamelessly exploit immigrants who have no desire to hand over the issue of comitology. i welcome the fact that all this may bring to bear on those principally responsible for the 500 000 protesters were perfectly aware of the problem demands that we close our eyes to the facts. < 1280856583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i note that the fnords are not visible in this style - clearly this shows that this _is_ an illuminati plot < 1280856616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, several < 1280856653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280856667 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A confluence of illuminati ploti? < 1280856711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFLVENTIA PLOTORVM ILLVMINATORVM < 1280857622 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1280857657 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, isn't -orum singular genitive? < 1280857668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps dative... < 1280857679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, plural < 1280857776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'k < 1280858152 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@99-203-245-78.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280858656 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so I have a parser for Eightebed done, and the beginnings of a type checker. I just need to finish that, extend it to do simple validity analysis, write the translator (to C), and write the runtime for the translated code (in C)... < 1280858780 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280858878 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280858967 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280858967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPS is very similar to the standard x86 calling convention... < 1280858991 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280858995 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? The standard x86 calling convention uses the stack IIRC... < 1280859059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it uses an address rather than a continuation, of course. < 1280859115 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cactus stack obv < 1280859151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Actually, it's more that *call stacks* are very similar to CPS. < 1280859154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1280859169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "similar" is commutative, isn't it? < 1280859176 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call stacks are crippled continuations < 1280859184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, that was my point. < 1280859310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Except when you add stronger stack manipulation. < 1280859345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in particular things like stack-swapping coroutines...) < 1280859443 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@99-203-245-78.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280859827 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted. But I would say even the fanciest stack arrangement limits the power of continuations. < 1280860034 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1280860105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Not really. One can use each stack as a continuation. :P < 1280860151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is most useful for the setup provided by getcontext et al, where each new stack has, at its bottom, the start of a function that will jump to a different stack...) < 1280860191 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, fine. Two stacks and you have a Turing tape anyway, right. < 1280860210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1280860216 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280860274 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then if you have a Turing machine, who needs functions or continuations anyway? See, this is not at all what I was getting at... < 1280860304 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280860333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280860593 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280860602 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moo < 1280861781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see the Python debugger is just as much a debugger as all other debuggers. < 1280861785 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bugger!) < 1280862102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you do the empty set in TeX? < 1280862110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or union, for that matter. < 1280862205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\emptyset, \cup or \bigcup . iirc. < 1280862262 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280862275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is $\emptyset$ for empty set symbol in TeX? < 1280862305 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if it is different for LaTeX, or for AMS-LaTeX) < 1280862346 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked now, it is $\emptyset$ < 1280862510 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's the difference between $\emptyset$ and \emptyset ? < 1280862523 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are not in math mode you have to enter math mode first < 1280862554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you would normally use it inside of a mathematical equation, so put $ around the entire equation instead of only around the \emptyset part < 1280862675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"many people prefer the look of AMS's \varnothing ... to that of LaTeX's \emptyset. < 1280862678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1280862696 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if you are using AMS you can use \varnothing instead < 1280862717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/symbols/comprehensive/symbols-a4.pdf which is _too_ comprehensive, took me ages to find the last one) < 1280862853 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have idea to add a few additional commands into TeX \rawread \rawwrite \boxpush \boxpop \boxenqueue \boxdequeue \tokpush \tokpop \tokenqueue \tokdequeue < 1280862905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that document seems to use LaTeX2e as the lowest common denominator, so nothing about just TeX specified < 1280862996 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMSTeX is the only TeX that matters < 1280863002 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just trying to start a fight) < 1280863025 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I don't think so, there are many kinds that are used, they all matter < 1280863061 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about TeX - I just want a sed that handles UTF-8 properly < 1280863083 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: O, perhaps you can modify sed to do that, if you want it like that? < 1280863106 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd sooner write a Perl script to do the replacements for me < 1280863134 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Python, considering I have an idea of how Python's Unicode support works, but know nothing about Perl;s. < 1280863223 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it does. I was just writing a bad regexp previously. Heheh. < 1280863242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://omega.albany.edu:8008/Symbols.html is a bit more maintainable :D < 1280863255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the :8008? < 1280863263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could they not get 80 < 1280863269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1280863280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: My sed doesn't handle UTF-8 properly in the sense that it'd understand multibyte sequences to be one character, but you can still do some simple operations even while it just thinks as sequences of bytes. < 1280863288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the heck should i know, i just googled "tex symbols" < 1280863361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, sed at home actually seems to be locale-aware. Freaky! It must've been some other sed that didn't do it right. (Or maybe I, too, wrote a bad regexp.) < 1280863361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the date "11 Jan 95" _could_ be a hint < 1280863409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"echo ä | sed -e 's/./x/'" => "x"; "echo ä | LC_CTYPE=C sed -e 's/./x/'" => "x¤". It certainly does locale-specificity. < 1280863418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The union of any set with the empty set is equal to the original set, isn't it? < 1280863430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280863486 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :love the favicon on that page < 1280863491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also, \cup is used as a binary operator, while \bigcup is generally used for indexed stuff, like the sigma sum symbol < 1280863512 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More addition commands into TeX \pushmode \popmode \undefhandler < 1280863524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like + vs. \sum < 1280863714 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280863793 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280863828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: incidentally with the table called "delimiters" iirc you can put \left or \right commands before some of them to make them expand in size. e.g. matrices can be put between \left[ and \right] < 1280863851 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even more additional commands into TeX \foreach \alltolerate \readglue \readmuglue \processglue \processmuglue < 1280863911 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glue? < 1280863932 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\notolerate \krystalnacht \myhead < 1280863938 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Do you use TeX? < 1280863954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could use \left( and \right) as parentheses if your formula is so big the usual ones become awkward < 1280863954 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: And what would \krystalnacht and \myhead mean? < 1280863974 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I tried using LaTeX, once, years ago. Safe to say I've forgotten almost everything about it. < 1280864002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kristallnacht < 1280864044 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Thanks, I knew that was all wrong but can't check on my phone :P < 1280864056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Maybe in LaTeX you don't need to deal with glue. But Plain TeX uses glue values, which means the natural length, as well as how much it is allowed to be shrink and how much it is allowed to be long, for inserting spaces, such as spaces between words in lines of paragraph text. < 1280864098 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This must be why I've never "progressed beyond" HTML. < 1280864100 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280864144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: LaTeX has various length designations, some expandable, some not < 1280864162 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280864180 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Perhaps you could try using TeX for some thing one time, I use it and it works. < 1280864208 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And if you want to type the rules of a role playing game, you might use Icoruma and then compile Icoruma files into other formats, such as TeX and HTML) < 1280864234 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280864265 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, < 1280864281 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280864310 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I prefer Plain TeX, but different people might prefer LaTeX or other packages) < 1280864323 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38's wikipedia user page just ate my brain < 1280864344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i suspect most non-programmers will find TeX to require too much handling of details < 1280864352 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: O NO I DIDN'T KNOW WIKIPEDIA PAGES HAS TO EAT!! < 1280864353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*plain TeX < 1280864362 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia pages don't have to eat < 1280864383 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the people that write it has to eat. (But not necessarily eating the pages!) < 1280864481 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, you are probably right. But the programming that can be done in TeX is what makes it good idea in my opinion! < 1280864486 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You are so totally one of those grey aliens pretending to be a human, aren't you? < 1280864523 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: No, I don't think so, not as far as I know, anyways. < 1280864548 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to believe < 1280864553 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1280864571 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am one of those humans that perhaps it is not meant to be humans but is instead supposted to be some kind of weird monsters that actually doesn't exist and nobody knows nothing about, not even me. < 1280864577 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is also doubtful. < 1280864590 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: OK, believe what you want to believe either way < 1280864601 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I am warning you!) < 1280864624 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning duly noted. Constraining belief systems, please wait... < 1280864647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ye of little faith < 1280865017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Wikipedia userpage mentions rotary telephones, I still use them (I use touchtone as well), but I also use phone that must be pulsed manually, which is the easiest kind to build. < 1280865029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, zzo38 is another result of the Device. < 1280865034 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because is simple and uses less component of others < 1280865057 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sorry, what Device do you mean? I don't know. < 1280865069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, yes, the Device tends to cause that. < 1280865074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry about it. < 1280865085 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really surprised that there are any phone companies in NA that still support pulse dialing. < 1280865096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NA? < 1280865107 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was just reading an article about technologies going "obsolete", by concidence < 1280865109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :north america, presumably < 1280865145 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the technologies on this list is the "Computer Mouse" < 1280865147 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think everyone should still continue to support pulse dialing < 1280865187 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that anyone can build a telephone from just a few wires and it will work < 1280865194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you think everyone should continue to support unsliced bread? < 1280865286 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I think you can, however you can make it at home baking it, so you don't need to have it commonly available at the store if you do not want to < 1280865301 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think DIP packaging should be banned. Only surface-mount packaging should be manufactured. This will make it much, much harder for pesky individual hobbyists to experiment with electronics. < 1280865351 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I think both DIP packaging and surface-mount should be remain available. < 1280865389 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, facetiousness should be punishable by being beaten with a sausage. < 1280865409 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What is the purpose of that? < 1280865433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first degree was in electronic engineering < 1280865441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and surface mount is entirely possible to handle, just more annoying < 1280865458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, call me back when you invent surface mount wire < 1280865466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which is why both ways should remain available. < 1280865842 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it are possible, but if only SM was available, I would probably choose something like kite-building over electronics as a hobby. < 1280865851 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it are! < 1280865901 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something I'm missing though, about hobbies I mean, but that's a different subject. < 1280865940 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280866178 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kisses Google < 1280866680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280866688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, why? < 1280866707 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a problem. Google had the solution < 1280866720 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1280867103 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280867200 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1280867484 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280867666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, now I'm having a different < 1280867669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different problem < 1280867674 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And finding no solutions :( < 1280867910 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's RDP support in Ubuntu, right? < 1280868098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RDP? < 1280868107 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280868127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remote Desktop Protocol? < 1280868159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System>Preferences>Remote Desktop < 1280868217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applications>Internet>Remote Desktop Viewer? < 1280868260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in Ubuntu right now < 1280868263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on Windows < 1280868417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280868625 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There has to be a better way < 1280868644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Raptor Defense Protocol < 1280868679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAPTORS! < 1280868684 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ready the Device! < 1280868868 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280868892 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280868903 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280869032 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280869050 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280869065 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280869275 0 :deathmoniac!~turing@187.35.34.18 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280869610 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280869832 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280870965 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280871015 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling for Icoruma is an adventure! < 1280871271 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280871442 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jyte.com/cl/i-have-used-at-least-10-different-programming-languages < 1280871496 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just counted -- I've used 18 "for serious". Counting Visual Basic, 8-bit Microsoft BASIC, and Business BASIC as different languages, and x86 and 6502 as different too. < 1280871503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280871568 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't count, like, Forth or Prolog, because I've just never gotten very serious with them. < 1280871849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used 0 programming languages, then. < 1280871905 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not even school projects? That you've enjoyed? I've done a school project in Prolog, and if I had enjoyed it, I would have included it... < 1280871914 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was kind of meh though. < 1280871942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I have whined endlessly about how terrible my school's computing course was. < 1280871946 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog is an excellent tool for expressing logical relations. A programming language -- not so much. < 1280871959 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, ok. < 1280871975 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Prolog, though. < 1280872099 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Write something you care about in it, and you could raise that 0 to a 1. (Just sayin'.) < 1280872122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I've written things I care about before. < 1280872138 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not in a way that you'd consider "for serious"? < 1280872148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they were all for my own amusement. < 1280872203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://jyte.com/cl/i-have-used-at-least-10-different-programming-languages <-- what is jyte? < 1280872208 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not really using that as a criteria. Almost everything I've written in Haskell or 6502 assembly has been for my own amusement. < 1280872229 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It came up during my google search for Icoruma. < 1280872239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what is icoruma? < 1280872268 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1:36:24 PM) zzo38: (And if you want to type the rules of a role playing game, you might use Icoruma and then compile Icoruma files into other formats, such as TeX and HTML) < 1280872288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, define serious btw. < 1280872297 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1280872301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, oh go to zzo's website. He is NIH < 1280872306 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's intentionally vague < 1280872341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, really? I was strongly under the impression that zzo was invented here. < 1280872361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, har har < 1280872383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: fungot 2.0 < 1280872384 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: mr president, commissioner, this is one of numerous documents which we ourselves have done in which you are facing up to the year 2012. < 1280872400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, AHA, so 2012 is involved too? < 1280872401 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: mr president, as several speakers have drawn attention to the needs of a european space strategy together with the proposal on the general headquarters of the united nations. < 1280872421 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course! < 1280872444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UN are going to destroy the world in 2012 with European orbital weapons! < 1280872448 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT ALL MAKES SENSE < 1280872694 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA < 1280872876 0 :calamari!~jeffryj@32.97.110.61 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280872879 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1280872931 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helloooooo calamari. < 1280872995 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cpressey < 1280873244 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280873680 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280873840 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280873999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the whole gang! < 1280874127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1280874136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one eBook I can find only in the Kindle store :( < 1280874552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's the whole gang"? < 1280875147 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jinkies! < 1280875585 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280875605 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280875620 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280875869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone please do a /me in a few seconds? < 1280875890 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refuses to cooperate with coppro < 1280875899 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1280876092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what nefarious deeds are you up to??? < 1280876123 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing my client < 1280876211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, plans for 2012 clearly < 1280883575 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280883575 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1280883576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I travel for M:tG tournaments; you never know, I could be in the UK next year < 1280883577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay clog < 1280883581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes or no? < 1280883585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hungary? :P < 1280883586 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no) < 1280883588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, FAIL < 1280883591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I bet in London or some other big city. < 1280883601 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: most likely, yes < 1280883601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, Sweden. See that is why you should include country. Not just state < 1280883608 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hungry? < 1280883610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not in Newcastle, you're too far away to visit Hexham without making me worry that rape is a serious possibility. < 1280883612 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking < 1280883617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280883627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, not that I'm in Västerbotten. But I don't want to be more specific than "Sweden" < 1280883635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fair enough < 1280883663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oddly enough, Ontario is far less specific geographically, but significantly more specific in terms of the number of people it might be < 1280883690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ontario is bigger than Alberta? < 1280883690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, so lower population density < 1280883699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, are you meaning the area < 1280883700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*area? < 1280883707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1280883709 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was comparing to Sweden < 1280883711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was confusing Ottawa and Ontario. < 1280883712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1280883718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm /really/ confused. < 1280883719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ontario is larger both in area and population than Alberta < 1280883724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280883733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant Ottawa, which I thought was called Ontario because I am confused. < 1280883738 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1280883758 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't ottawa and ontario both in canada? < 1280883765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280883766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they are. < 1280883767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes < 1280883771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ottawa is also in Ontario. < 1280883777 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ottawa is the capital of Canada, conveniently located in Ontario < 1280883777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost as if areas of the world are nested. < 1280883787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but the capital of Ontario is Toronto, isn't it? < 1280883792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, saying Västerbotten to olsner would be far more successful of course < 1280883794 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nested!? woah!! < 1280883796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that is what I read on Wikipedia three seconds ago < 1280883800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes it is. < 1280883803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not confusing at all. < 1280883809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT AT ALL. < 1280883822 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have no idea where that is except it's in sweden, probably up north < 1280883824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1280883826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^ < 1280883830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: right < 1280883835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hah, but you live in Sweden < 1280883838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think Ontario is more populous than Sweden. < 1280883840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, and yes up north somewhere. < 1280883845 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's Gatineau < 1280883847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is in Quebec < 1280883848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1280883853 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is also a part of the National Capital Region < 1280883865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I suspect I passed through on the sleeper train < 1280883866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden: 9,354,462 < 1280883870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is along the coast ther is < 1280883872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ontario: 13,167,894 < 1280883898 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sweden is small! (what else is new...) < 1280883905 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh, really? < 1280883910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, not by European area standards < 1280883911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner's conceptions about the world are being destroyed so badly today < 1280883912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Sweden had more people < 1280883921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by population standards everywhere it is small < 1280883932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they all moved to finland because finland borders russia, where there are bears < 1280883937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminding them of where they truly want to be, canada < 1280883941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a sense they're all canadian citizens. < 1280883966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, London's population makes up a bit more than 80% of Sweden's population. Yet afaik UK has less area than Sweden < 1280883968 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned from random old guy (who was also an immigrant from somewhere in africa) that sweden is the third largest country in the EU < 1280883976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sweden is tiny < 1280883978 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recently) < 1280883983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are bears in Sweden? < 1280883991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why would they move < 1280884028 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by "small" I did mean in terms of population though, not in area) < 1280884052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, UK is tinier (tinyer?) in area afaik < 1280884113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot speak because i am < 1280884120 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: smaller than France, Germany, and Spain? < 1280884129 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, you know what I mean < 1280884135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, easily < 1280884163 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it's official: I'm an idiot < 1280884176 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really did have libc-2.7.so on my phone.. d'oh < 1280884179 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280884196 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld-2.7.so worked perfectly < 1280884212 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, stupid me, I'm bad at sphere projections < 1280884220 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I dunno, I don't dedicate storage for geography so that knowledge has already been purged < 1280884226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, hm? < 1280884257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my geography allocation is 0 too < 1280884269 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was thinking Sweden was significantly smaller due to the fact that spherical projection is hard < 1280884297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1280884300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... < 1280884336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking my globe, Sweden is definitely longer than any of those countries < 1280884391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would suspect the area is smaller than France, but could be wrong < 1280884398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the not easy to compare shapes < 1280884416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is considering store healthloss per unit time rather than updating HP < 1280884447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which virtual world? < 1280884457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds < 1280884502 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do we always end up discussing pointless things (like geography) here? < 1280884511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1280884531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280884560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Clearly, we should replace the planet with a perfect sphere. < 1280884591 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: clearly, the shape of the planet is irrelevant < 1280884608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have a constant population density. < 1280884617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I < 1280884632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate to end up living in the sea < 1280884643 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280884659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you propose a constant water density as well? < 1280884670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Water? On the surface? Who needs it? < 1280884673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: torus pls < 1280884677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mean all sea, or perhaps marshes < 1280884691 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is it not esoteric enough? < 1280884708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or we just amend the law of gravity < 1280884709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, klein bottle please < 1280884717 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280884722 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the shape of the planet? well, it's irrelevant! < 1280884757 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you seem to be under the misconception that there exist things too esoteric for this channel < 1280884769 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are sadly mistaken < 1280884797 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm rather arguing there are things too mundane for this channel < 1280884848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lies. < 1280884914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are things off topic for this channel that we don't discuss < 1280884919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't mention them though < 1280884924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we would then discuss them < 1280884956 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the things off topic for this channel that we *do* discuss? < 1280884971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are far more of those < 1280885004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I could mention one example, since it would be meta discussion < 1280885015 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280885037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent of my knowledge, we have, prior to this point at least, not have any significant discussion about gardening. < 1280885052 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1280885053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just one of many examples < 1280885063 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good because it involves gardening < 1280885070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, NO STOP IT! < 1280885081 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any gardening-related esolangs around? < 1280885085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1280885092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, now we have < 1280885100 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something with search-*trees* and *pruning* perhaps? < 1280885101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will refuse to mention any more examples < 1280885122 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in fact prolog is gardening-oriented programming < 1280885126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you now need to pay license fee to oerjan < 1280885157 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as if! he's norwegian you know < 1280885170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oh but your horrible puns... < 1280885209 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as always with puns, the horribler the better < 1280885217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1280885274 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to stop spewing nonsense and go to sleep anyway < 1280885276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:11:15 "many people prefer the look of AMS's \varnothing ... to that of LaTeX's \emptyset. < 1280885276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:11:18 " < 1280885279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people are wrong < 1280885302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These new earphones are suffering the same issue as all my others ;( < 1280885366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what issue < 1280885376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad sound quality? < 1280885386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only way to fix that is getting headphones < 1280885387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead < 1280885403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling out of ears? again same fix < 1280885436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wire breaks or something, and the sound only comes out of one ear unless I hold the wire just right < 1280885469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, be more careful with them then < 1280885473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or get actual headphones < 1280885481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had actual headphones once < 1280885481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to have thicker wire < 1280885485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First ones to go < 1280885490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least good ones < 1280885504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These were noise-cancelling, don't know if that's good < 1280885513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the current ones, the good ones < 1280885524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, could be either < 1280885533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the cord isn't replacable, it's probably too cheap. < 1280885534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280885535 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1280885567 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, was just about to spoil inception for y'all, but turns out I deleted that line instead of sending it < 1280885587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed! < 1280885602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ? < 1280885620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S ABOUT RECURSION < 1280885673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1280885707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1280886454 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280886495 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not necessarily - lambdas would still be useful without closures." < 1280886500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION :p at alise  < 1280886510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but he's wrong. < 1280888016 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280888104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Lambdas that *don't close*? < 1280888114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's absolutely awful. < 1280888137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about C's level of support for it. < 1280888288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:53:14 zzo38: do you think everyone should continue to support unsliced bread? < 1280888297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fresh bread is usually unsliced. < 1280888308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; a freshly baked loaf of bread is fucking delicious if done well. < 1280888316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Delicious < 1280888323 0 :Delicious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erg, registered nick < 1280888325 0 :Delicious!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1280888334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:30:15 Googling for Icoruma is an adventure! < 1280888341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if zzo38 says it, look on zzo38computer.cjb.net < 1280888359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always good advice. < 1280888381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it says RPG rules, can that apply to computer RPGs? < 1280888410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, no, it' < 1280888417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for typesetting RPG stuff, apparently < 1280888425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I hate his website design. < 1280888429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/magic.htm This is revolting. < 1280888440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1280888453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the menu I'm just fine with; I mean, it's just about plain text. Nothing fancy, but nothing awful either.) < 1280888716 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280889949 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280890393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1280890686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1280890687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280890723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh my, it truly is < 1280890934 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280891912 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280894049 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280894304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote cpressey, oh go to zzo's website. He is NIH AnMaster, really? I was strongly under the impression that zzo was invented here. < 1280894316 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :205| cpressey, oh go to zzo's website. He is NIH AnMaster, really? I was strongly under the impression that zzo was invented here. < 1280894734 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NIH? < 1280894793 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I want to like Ruby < 1280894824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's a far cry from actually liking Ruby < 1280894847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not invented here < 1280894862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280895057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers eating his box of pasta for breakfast instead of dinner < 1280895152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you eat'a the pasta that fast'a, it won't last'a < 1280895156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tonight I'll do both < 1280895271 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bookmark < 1280895317 0 :bookmark!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1280895335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mrr? < 1280895354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, bookmarks in the logs < 1280895517 0 :AndChat|!~AndChat@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280895526 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mrrrr? < 1280895536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndChat| is not me. < 1280895542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell < 1280895560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't cloak your host and they aren't close to the same < 1280895740 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if we don't know who it is, there's only one solution. < 1280895743 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cocks his gun. < 1280895745 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shoots. < 1280895746 0 :AndChat|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280895753 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280895773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collateral damage! D-8 < 1280895781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might now have a slight inkling of clue < 1280896032 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1280898624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof I am easily amused: I am watching a Futurama where the title caption was "scratch here to reveal prize"... so I did < 1280898660 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wow. < 1280898789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Flush stderr after writing to it < 1280898812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to Sgeo; write to file descriptor 2 instead. < 1280898813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280898820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1280898916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw buffered IO. < 1280898917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280898990 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: stderr is not buffered by default; it shouldn't need flushing < 1280898998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1280899006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why did it not write? < 1280899014 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I redirected stderr to errors.txt < 1280899029 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something happened that should have been written to Console.Error (which should be stderr), and... < 1280899057 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, what language is this? < 1280899134 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# < 1280899137 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawlz < 1280899150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just kill yourself now. < 1280899168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is with pikhq < 1280899420 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Gregor ashamed to have recognized that? < 1280899421 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes he is! < 1280899425 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Gregor going to rectify this? < 1280899427 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No he is not. < 1280899449 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31300809&l=616aba37c8&id=1055580469 Is this the most epic picture ever taken? < 1280899451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is! < 1280899451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280899464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could pretend that you knew it only because I've been working in C# for the last few months < 1280899486 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew it only because /I've/ been working in C# for the last few months *sobs* < 1280899501 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a terrible language < 1280899517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Awesome. < 1280899534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What, does .NET require a lobotomy? < 1280899566 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.NET is a bad idea that sounds like a good idea, poorly executed in a way that makes it look well-executed :P < 1280899610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say useless idea more than bad < 1280899637 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fair enough. < 1280899666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, if Mono were up-to-snuff, it < 1280899676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a different story, imo < 1280899912 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280899952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"errors.txt is so brilliant" < 1280899957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"btw" < 1280900985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is currently storing built binaries in version control < 1280901000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1280901077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT BUT... THAT'S _EVIL_ < 1280901083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc) < 1280901104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it evil, and is there a less evil way? < 1280901113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I currently access the production server via RDP) < 1280901144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Sgeo -----### < 1280901153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The RDP thing is not my fault < 1280901171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU SEEM TO BE TAKING ME SERIOUSLY. WOULD YOU LIKE A LOBOTOMY TO FIX THIS? < 1280901201 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two lobotomies total, yay! (The first was for .NET) < 1280901231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be dangerous then, could run out of brain to remove < 1280902394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"These vehicles are fast and cost nothing. Unfortunately, in a bold cost-cutting move, FV decided to go with the lowest bidder, Cheaps-R-Us, which tends to operate, well, below the radar. Exposure to these vehicles will hurt your HP, and eventually kill you." < 1280902411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^my attempt at a bit of humor, and the idea of vehicles costing HP < 1280902561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically they're dead cheap < 1280902606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAR-E-LESS < 1280902646 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I want to be as creative as you < 1280902665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although these vehicles aren't quite cars < 1280902680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just thought it needed a better pun < 1280902736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/sjr1I.jpg < 1280902803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so they fly? < 1280902878 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless you go down a mountain quickly < 1280902947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting how language conventions change over IRC < 1280902961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the picture's so dark i cannot tell if they're touching the ground < 1280903062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seems to be out of creativity now < 1280903072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1280903078 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I've found it tends to model speech more closely < 1280903091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as putting question marks on questioning sentences, even if they aren't true questions < 1280903132 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strive to unify spoken and written English! < 1280903172 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IPA is thataway < 1280903515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh; good luck making a standardised language that way. < 1280903522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English has ridiculously divergent accents. < 1280904533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tough for me to tell in-world < 1280904540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I _think_ they're hovering a bit < 1280904645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't fly high into the sky with them < 1280907184 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't OCaml have typeclasses? < 1280907292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't everything have typeclasses? < 1280907294 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better yet, roles? < 1280907309 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/me is pretty sure that roles are the ultimate achievement in typing) < 1280907361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like how some things that would be syntax in some languages are.. user-defined, so to speak, in Ruby < 1280907369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think Smalltalk takes that a lot further < 1280907534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1280907612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. OCaml's ; is [very] roughly analogous to >>= as used in the IO monad, I think < 1280907656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"; has type unit -> 'b -> 'b" < 1280907665 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also what do you mean by user-defined? < 1280907670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, if that's the case, then that means things are automatically coerced to unit? < 1280907671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280907721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, as in, in Ruby, someiter.foreach do |x| stuff end < 1280907731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if it's foreach or some other method < 1280907743 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's instead of a formal foreach construct, I think < 1280907750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, usually used instead < 1280907760 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ah, ok < 1280907769 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a magic function though? < 1280907772 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Smalltalk's if is similar < 1280907783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I'm pretty sure it isn't < 1280907787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it merely defined on the same terms as user code? < 1280907795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like a primitive type) < 1280907795 0 :fizzie!~fis@2001:1bc8:102:587b:230:18ff:fea9:6f01 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280907801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, might be built in, but user code could easily do the same thing, I think < 1280907803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while < 1280907828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk's if I expect is a built-in < 1280907838 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you need a conditional primitive somewhere < 1280907887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But syntactically, it's just method calls, I think < 1280907900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something ifTrue: stuff ifFalse: otherstuff I think. I may be mistaken < 1280907909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a bit of a while < 1280907996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaml types look weird < 1280907997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int list? < 1280908018 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280908140 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280908266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH MY GOVERNMENT IS SO FSCKING STUPID < 1280908337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, aren't you in Canada or something? Or am I completely and utterly mistaken? < 1280908350 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, I did not mean to imply that Canada is perfect < 1280908398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, I'm in Canada < 1280908409 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the government is building a prison because of the alarming increase in unreported crime < 1280908461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1280908480 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... a) How would they know, and b) How is that useful? < 1280908501 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Statcan does surveys to estimate unreported crime rates < 1280908515 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one that's available was in '04 < 1280908524 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and showed, I believe, and estimated 3% increase < 1280908531 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not really relevant < 1280908541 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the fact that YOU DON'T PUT UNREPORTED CRIMINALS IN PRISON < 1280908556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU NEED A PRISON BECAUSE UNREPORTED CRIME IS GOING UP < 1280908584 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is object-orientedness really worth the nightmare syntax of OCaml? < 1280908688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since you forgot to take into account your special value, you conclude that the mean age of visitors is 7 years old, and you employ web designers to remove all the long words and use primary colours everywhere." < 1280908705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280908723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also, the minister behind this believes that surveys are useless after a year or two < 1280908739 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our government has been doing so much stuff that makes no sense this summer < 1280908799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1280908800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280908857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(note the code highlighted in red):" < 1280908863 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280908864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There IS no code hilighted in red! < 1280908865 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280908868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ocaml-tutorial.org/null_pointers,_asserts_and_warnings < 1280909058 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280909060 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280910368 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280912368 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280912534 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280912813 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280912872 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280912878 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280912891 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280913187 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280913252 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280913764 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1280913996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there's no statically-typed Smalltalk, is there? < 1280914108 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280914234 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's apparently something called Strongtalk < 1280914816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll just relearn Smalltalk < 1280915166 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1280915454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way to make a general native app in Smalltalk, is there? I guess the concept doesn't really make sense < 1280915475 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use objective-c < 1280915532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sort of stereotyped that as the Apple language :/ < 1280915541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I should try it eventually, though < 1280915568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But right now, after expunging my mind of the syntax horror that is OCaml, I'm obsessed with Smalltalk < 1280917314 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recommends Go < 1280917316 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-244.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280917707 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280917733 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280917733 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280917733 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280917736 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1280918008 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280918013 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918017 0 :coppro!~scshunt@nat/uwaterloo/x-mngjfinvuwjqzfjv JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918017 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1280918017 0 :coppro!~scshunt@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918043 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joined, left and joined again within a second... < 1280918049 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CONSPIRACY < 1280918062 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connection died < 1280918077 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of a CONSPIRACY! < 1280918128 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or because something happened in between caffeine and my server < 1280918137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, clog is back. < 1280918299 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fakequit by IRC server to change the host? :-) < 1280918312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY GOD < 1280918338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? < 1280918346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNGOT! < 1280918363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You killed fungot! Bastards! < 1280918441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm. < 1280918475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jordan.freenode.net seems to have gone to sleep. < 1280918508 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h2.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to download Pharo < 1280918553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, 1.2 will contain an FFI < 1280918562 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds bots in Smalltalk! < 1280918746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: jumpin' jumpin' < 1280918749 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders what a ProfStef is < 1280918772 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918778 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280918779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are new to Smalltalk, we recommend you to do the integrated, interactive tutorial. To start it, evaluate the following expression (select the text -> right button -> do it): < 1280918784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProfStef go < 1280918817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1280918828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UI looks OSX-like < 1280918855 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was your age, you wrote your programs on a piece of paper and sent them off to London, where they would evaluate it and send it back in a month! < 1280919218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I don't remember why I abandoned Smalltalk a while ago < 1280919304 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280919612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lols at ProfStef 17 < 1280919615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lost?" < 1280919620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, you should not be here!" < 1280919634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 16 is the first time it asks you to write the code to go to the next lesson < 1280919888 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ide do you use < 1280919968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pharo < 1280919979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's more than an IDE I guess < 1280920372 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why everything about Smalltalk is so colorful < 1280920506 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280921079 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280921212 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280922016 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280922467 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280922787 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280923924 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280924106 0 :Occultist!~Kabbalist@c80-228.i07-21.onvol.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280924182 0 :Occultist!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hI < 1280924227 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280924642 0 :Occultist!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1280925812 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280925962 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280926026 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280926118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280926132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280926636 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280927068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You typically only need to use or modify this class, or even know how it works, when making fundamental changes to how the Smalltalk system and language works." < 1280927072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHAHHAHA < 1280927683 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E6221.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280928513 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280930037 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280930114 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280930493 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1280930555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly is muh nicer when you have proper GPRs... < 1280930559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/muh/much/ < 1280931000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot! < 1280931000 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: reading fnord about the sound of my head. i think this channel is a proof that ihope's set is universal. at least it makes updating my debian box < 1280931006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1280931006 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1280931010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style i < 1280931011 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1280931012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ic < 1280931012 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ic (INTERCAL manual) < 1280931021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how do I mingle? < 1280931021 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the `while' inside one of these contexts. < 1280931434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style speeches < 1280931434 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg) < 1280931441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, speak! < 1280931442 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this trap was constructed on a new principle, of which, with the adventures of a certain bird known to fnord and fnord, john morley, and arthur fnord) were authors of books before they engaged in the slave fnord because slavery is not wrong, nothing is easier than i thought to come across the atlantic in fnord, the fnord < 1280931896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speeches are a fnordy matter. < 1280931933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GCC should have an option called -fnord... < 1280931973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fno-rd, to disable -frd. < 1280932087 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's start a PETITION! < 1280932309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to allow the hyphens to be omitted when turning off options? < 1280932336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, there's a -frd? < 1280932341 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some alignment-related machine-specific options that start with "-malign", those also have nice names. Like the -malign-natural/-malign-power pair on PPC, and -malign-double on x86. < 1280932366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With -malign-double, GCC will be doubly malignant. < 1280932483 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it try to murder you? < 1280932491 0 :xz!~dimius@167-40-92-178.pool.ukrtel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280932519 0 :xz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280932529 0 :xz!~dimius@167-40-92-178.pool.ukrtel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280932536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xz! < 1280932540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. It might also align doubles, long doubles and long longs on a qword boundary. < 1280932550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's in addition to the murdering. < 1280932563 0 :xz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /msg nickserv set kill quick < 1280932597 0 :xz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280932611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1280932642 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1280932664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there is such a setting; at least nickserv set's subhelp doesn't know it. < 1280932673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is xz a vi command? < 1280932696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1280932746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense that the first 'x' will delete a character, and the z can start many commands. < 1280932975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how vi-compatible the z.* commands are, in Vim they mostly deal with folding, because (according to the manual) z looks like a folded piece of paper. < 1280933176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in NetHack, xz swaps to the readied weapon, then zaps a wand < 1280933205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nickserv help: "SET NEVEROP prevents others from adding you to channel access lists." That's a curious setting. Maybe useful if you feel permanently irresponsible? < 1280933289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that include the autoban setting on channel access lists? < 1280933303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just like you can set someone to be opped on join, or voiced on join, you can set them to be banned on join) < 1280933327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, some chanserv kickbannery command utilizes that automatically, I think. < 1280933362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, and I don't exactly feel like source-diving. If this were NetHack, one could be certain the devteam would have had thought of it, but... < 1280933400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought of what? < 1280933410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm a reasonably experienced NetHack sourcediver) < 1280933422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can't be sane, then. < 1280933436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack's source makes me feel nauseous at times. < 1280933437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: meh, NetHack's source is just an intellectual challenge < 1280933449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare to DCSS's source, which makes me feel physically ill < 1280933450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the build process is from hell. < 1280933455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCSS? < 1280933460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dungeon crawl stone soup < 1280933464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of NetHack's major competitors < 1280933507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought of the interaction of NEVEROP and bans-done-via-access-lists. < 1280933518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280933580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is DCSS so nauseating? < 1280933601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just read it and see things that have no right being in code ever < 1280933613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked the DCSS devs about some of the stuff they'd found in the code < 1280933618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of them had even found a for-case loop < 1280933649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code is 5 MB, so I won't be able to see it for a couple of minutes. < 1280933666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very large, yes < 1280933671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack abuses preprocessor macros far too much. < 1280933717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atheme-services-5.2.3, modules/chanserv/flags.c: /* If NEVEROP is set, don't allow adding new entries except sole +b. Adding flags if the current level is +b counts as adding an entry. -- jilles */ < 1280933769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which version freenode uses; the services info-page still speaks of hyperion-related customizations. Still, it's probably worky. < 1280933795 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280934424 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280934636 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-5-244.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280934652 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280934778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wait, if that's the case, then that means things are automatically coerced to unit? < 1280934808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how Algol does it < 1280934818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, there are two different ways to coerce a procedure to void < 1280934828 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280934838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you're supposed to use the ignore : 'a -> unit function to make it explicit when you're ignoring a result. i'm not sure whether ocaml's ; gives an actual type error or a warning < 1280934841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and five different coercion contexts, and a few extra rules, which determine how to do ambiguous coercions < 1280934898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1280934941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1280934963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do [1,2,3]; [1] < 1280934973 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,1] < 1280934992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a little unexpected < 1280934996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've seen it discussed whether haskell do should have had the same semantics, or at least a warning < 1280935021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's exactly what the [] monad does < 1280935025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never remember what >>= does for [] < 1280935038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that it maybe should do a warning for the same reason < 1280935049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's >> technically < 1280935052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280935059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but >> is a special case of >>= < 1280935078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskel do a=[1,2,3]; [a] < 1280935083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do a=[1,2,3]; [a,a] < 1280935108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3] < 1280935111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want <- < 1280935114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it opened up a DCC chat with me just to say "parse error in pattern" < 1280935116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're right, I do < 1280935122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1280935123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do a<-[1,2,3]; [a,a] < 1280935125 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,2,2,3,3] < 1280935132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I expected < 1280935139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just remembered what >>= did for lists < 1280935225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a file:/// url link on a web-forum. "Here, take a look at this picture: file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/HP_Administrator/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/..." < 1280935244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, who is this idiot? < 1280935274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of the time I said "this big" and indicated with my hand when speaking over the phone. < 1280935275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do [1,2,3]; [1] is basically the same as do _ <- [1,2,3]; [1] < 1280935327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280935348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it that link's to c:\ or something similar? < 1280935368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard response is along the lines of "I looked at it, but all I could see was porn" < 1280935379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much in his private windows picture folder < 1280935400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, come to think of it, you could use file:// links for things that were probably on someone's computer < 1280935437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, a Debian user asks you "can you link me to a copy of the GPL?", and you go "file:///usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2" < 1280935454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when they complain, say "well Debian policy doesn't let me use any other copy, it needs to be centralised to save on disk space" < 1280935463 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280935486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wicked < 1280935607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally (>>) is almost equivalent to liftM2 (flip const) < 1280935628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "almost" is because the latter might be more likely to leak memory) < 1280935664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't flip const equal to ignore? < 1280935672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, not quite, wrong type < 1280935682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :const () is ignore < 1280935688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280935697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that's not monadic of course < 1280935697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :const is k, which takes two arguments and returns the first < 1280935703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas flip const takes two arguments and returns the second < 1280935707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so flip const is `ki < 1280935737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll just point out that (const id) is shorter than (flip const) < 1280935738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was to "c:/Documents and Settings/HP_Administrator/My Documents/My Pictures/..."; the user name is very telling, too. < 1280935743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so useless in haskell, you'd want liftM (const ()) < 1280935755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ugh, XP filenames < 1280935791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was talking about inside the lift < 1280935803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, the liftM; stupid using "lift" to mean two unrelated things) < 1280936090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:46:36 OCaml types look weird < 1280936090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:46:37 int list? < 1280936095 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280936117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the order is ML legacy < 1280936183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SO WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU NEED A PRISON BECAUSE UNREPORTED CRIME IS GOING UP < 1280936207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they think people would report more crimes if they thought the criminals might actually get put in jail :D < 1280936285 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280936498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are Linux syscalls guaranteed to leave registers like rdi and rsi alone on x86-64? < 1280936753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't find that explicitly stated in the documentation anywhere, but based on the syscall entry code, it seemed to me like it'd keep just about everything untouched. < 1280936784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdi and rsi are the first two syscall arguments, though, aren't they? < 1280936807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought x86-64 stuck to the x86 convention. < 1280936848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. rax is the syscall, then rbx, rcx, rdx, rdi, rsi, rbp for the args/ < 1280936856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. < 1280936870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1280936884 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything I've tried with that has worked... < 1280936887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rax is the number; the arguments go to rdi, rsi, rdx, r10, r8, r9, in that order. At least if you call via "syscall". < 1280936941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same as a normal x86-64 function call, except rcx/r10; there was something special about rcx there. < 1280936943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With int 0x80 it uses the method above, doesn't it? < 1280936967 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; I haven't ever used int 0x80 with x86-64, since syscall exists and is supposedly better and faster. < 1280937045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is syscall a normal C function? < 1280937052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? No. It's an opcode. < 1280937063 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280937065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1280937073 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280937261 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1280937291 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See this bit: http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#YXaLobiZowM/trunk/kernel/linux-2.6.34/arch/x86/kernel/entry_64.S&l=424 < 1280937367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs a bit digging as to whether it saves the argument registers or not; I seem to recall that it does, but it's a bit messy due to all those macros. < 1280937552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discounting one very size-optimized stub, I haven't usually been relying on getting the syscall args back untouched. < 1280937723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SAVE_ARGS bit might be the one that's responsible for keeping them safe. < 1280937812 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280937821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syscall opcode itself kills rcx by stuffing the return address (next opcode) there. < 1280937857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess r11 too, for saving rflags there. < 1280937895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Away a while now.) < 1280937929 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280938104 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in other news, I have built most of the type checker for Eightebed. < 1280938159 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just the type checker, not the pointer validity checker yet.) < 1280938161 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280938229 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that "proving Gregor wrong" is kind of a crappy reason to implement a medium-sized language. And that implementing a medium-sized language is a rather inefficient way to prove Gregor wrong. Still... < 1280938250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way are you trying to prove him wrong? < 1280938269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose I'll also allow the possibility of "her" there, in case both the name and the photos are lies) < 1280938287 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since I'm right :P < 1280938295 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280938332 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I once got a correspondence that started "Dear Miss Richards:". I politely replied that "Gregor" is a male name. I got a reply that I should probably change the picture on my homepage then :P < 1280938352 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, the picture on my homepage is chosen randomly, so I have no idea which was so suggestive. < 1280938370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1280938425 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280938426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it's the hats. < 1280938428 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280938437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CONSPIRACY < 1280938457 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hats??? < 1280938461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just *happened* to leave the second I said something to you! < 1280938472 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My hats are UTTERLY MASCULINE. < 1280938486 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (short version of Gregor's claim) If a language supports explicit free() it also needs to provide GC if it wants to be "safe" (doesn't let you dereference/execute something you didn't mean to.) < 1280938498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh, no. That's not my claim at all. < 1280938503 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1280938535 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language which provides a true explicit free() cannot be safe. To be safe a language must either never free (which is bad) or be GC'd. That is my claim. < 1280938550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what about something along the lines of Splint, but which actually works? < 1280938563 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, jeez. "true"? < 1280938567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that statically checks all mallocs/frees in the program before running it, to ensure no leaks and no dangling pointers? < 1280938607 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yay for impossible analysis and no modularity! < 1280938617 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: By "true" I mean that you can get that memory back in a later malloc(). < 1280938623 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: So it actually frees it, and doesn't just ignore you. < 1280938658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Splint was modular enough < 1280938687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possible, because it relied on the programmer to provide it with a proof of memory safety, rather than trying to work it out itself and running up against the halting problem < 1280938689 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, that seems close to what I thought you meant, so I may simply have phrased my version badly. Lemme think < 1280938695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was too buggy to succeed as its goals < 1280938723 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: By modular in this case I mean at LEAST separated compilation, if not dynamic loading. But also checking for proper malloc() and free() reduces to the halting problem so making that analysis general enough to write real programs seems enormously challenging at least. < 1280938762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: separated compilation and dynamic linking would have worked fine < 1280938773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it expanded the type system to give safety checks < 1280938788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, it was the programmer's responsibility to give the proof of safety, not splint's reponsibility to find one < 1280938835 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think I was "factoring out" the possibility of "fake free()" in my version. Or if you like, add "true" to the part where I mention "free()" too. < 1280938841 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun writing an interpreter in that. "Will you free these objects?" "Uhh, I will if they stop being used by the underlying code, but since I have no idea what that's going to do, maybe?" < 1280938845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^^^ < 1280938869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: functions had to be deterministic about whether they freed or not < 1280938880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's OK to add everything to a global list, then free it all at the end < 1280938908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Awesome. You can't write an interpreter for a GC'd language. Sounds pro to me. < 1280938909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, you could free earlier if you knew the object wasn't being used (say it went out of scope and had a zero refcount) < 1280938924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course you can < 1280938932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just do the GC yourself < 1280938939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcounting + loopbreaking would work fine, for instance < 1280938948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if that's a crazy GC architecture < 1280938979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well yeah, you can just treat malloc() as sbrk() and do everything yourself, I'm not being fair there X-P < 1280939007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that it's difficult to define what "correct" is in this space since a language in which you can't free at all is still A-OK :P < 1280939033 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. malloc() is implemented in terms of sbrk(), and on most systems there's no way to relinquish that back to the OS, and yet C code doesn't just bloat up to infinity. < 1280939063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought implementing malloc in terms of sbrk was deprecated nowadays < 1280939077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it is, or at least was, IIRC, the usual implementation strategy < 1280939078 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not deprecated, it's just not part of the standard. < 1280939094 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically the standard loosened to allow other implementations, but that's still the common one. < 1280939120 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1280939303 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280939333 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc < 1280939523 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280939767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :German people apparently can't gender-map my first name (Heikki), because a place I once ordered a used laptop from keeps sending me their ads prefixed by "Frau Kallasjoki". < 1280939808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what I would guess with "Heikki" < 1280939814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the Grand Prix driver with that name is male < 1280939818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's only the one data point < 1280939819 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Heike" is a German female name. < 1280939836 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently in China "Gregor" reads as a female name :P < 1280939849 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least ambiguous enough to be overwhelmed by my feminine wiles. < 1280939954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-i reads as femaleish in English, I suppose... < 1280939992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because most names ending -i are a ridiculous sort of abbreviation < 1280939998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in norwegian, mostly < 1280940011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tend to be confined to a particular sort of stereotype, which only applies to women < 1280940012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Kari, Siri) < 1280940052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Heidi, though that's actually from german < 1280940254 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need more names that conflict with the Unix toolchain. "And these are my children, Diff and Sed!" < 1280940283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Biff? < 1280940290 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There ya go. < 1280940310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roff < 1280940651 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete tangent: I suppose it would be possible to have a completely name-based type system, that is, all types are given names by the user, and 2 types are equivalent iff they have the same name. Maybe? < 1280940662 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/user/programmer/ < 1280940672 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't want USERS giving names to types, do we? < 1280940691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that the only form of I/O < 1280940705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how? < 1280940716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just blue skies esothinking < 1280942291 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: and the operations will be "come here", "wash your hands", "spit that out"... < 1280942812 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E760F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280944216 0 :asmodeo_!~asmodeo@186.141.139.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280944295 0 :asmodeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280944321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes for the first time that the back of his palate has a hole above it, he always assumed there would be bone there < 1280944323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280944367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it took me 40 years to discover something easily checked on my own body! < 1280944454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION only started picking there because his palate got a sore spot < 1280944490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I bet you don't know what your ear canal looks like. < 1280944508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably not < 1280944521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that _would_ seem to require special equipment < 1280944845 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-153-53.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280944861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is this Mathnerd314 person? < 1280944901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some nerd who thinks he knows mathematics just because he can recite 3 digits of pi ;D < 1280944922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14159265...4? < 1280944925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- knows 15 < 1280944932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi? tl;dr < 1280944939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Please don't make me add "rounding Pi down to three" to your list of crimes", like they say. < 1280944943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there's a 4 in there somewhere, yes < 1280944959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can go better. 1_pi. < 1280944972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14159265...4 looks as if 4 would be the last digit. < 1280944978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Phantom_Hoover -----### < 1280944988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*10_pi < 1280944996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAoops. < 1280945028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember 3.14159265358979, but no more. < 1280945031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: now _that_ can be added to a list of crimes < 1280945045 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@184-195-169-80.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280945050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: me 2! < 1280945069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless... < 1280945073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell pi < 1280945074 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793 < 1280945086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very helpful < 1280945090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one more, though. < 1280945098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putFloat? < 1280945105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i think it's rounded up < 1280945109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t pi < 1280945110 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi :: (Floating a) => a < 1280945119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not rounded; it goes 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841968... < 1280945133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That 8 there might be rounded, though. It was from bc, scale=40, a(1)*4.) < 1280945141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'm not sure EgoBot has any arbitrary precision floats (there _are_ packages for it) < 1280945149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah 323 < 1280945156 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c #include \nint main() { printf("%f", PI) } < 1280945157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no, in Haskell. < 1280945166 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr < 1280945173 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c #include \nint main() { printf("%f", PI); return 0; } < 1280945181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's M_PI, and it might not be defined by default, since it's not standard. < 1280945186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _almost_ remember the 323. except somehow i thought it was 262 a moment ago < 1280945195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i mean EgoBot's haskell < 1280945203 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: D'aww boo :P < 1280945222 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I thought it was GHC, like the rest of us use. < 1280945266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and that has nothing to do with what i am talking about, since the builtin types of ghc don't include arbitrary precision floats afaik < 1280945269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!run echo 'scale=100; a(1)*4;' | bc -l < 1280945274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, no go? < 1280945279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, aaah. < 1280945293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes you could get the nth digit of pi in decimal. < 1280945297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "packages" i mean on the hackage repository < 1280945340 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you mean Haskell doesn't provide a *lazy* pi? < 1280945344 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just wrong! < 1280945351 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You want `run < 1280945361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it doesn't provide a lazy number type, by default < 1280945365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, right. < 1280945370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'scale=100; a(1)*4;' | bc -l < 1280945374 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280945378 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That's ... oh god lazy computable number *brain axplote* < 1280945381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or !sh, probably. < 1280945395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, no bc, quotation issues, something else? < 1280945398 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That 68 there is wrong, it should go 7169... < 1280945403 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No excuse. It could provide it as a list of digits then. < 1280945417 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many ways can you run arbitrary code on Codu? 5? 6? :P < 1280945424 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: And it needs to provide a lazy Chaitin's omega, as well, clearly. < 1280945426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bc < 1280945427 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280945448 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: YES. Computability be damned :) < 1280945448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run bc -v < 1280945449 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280945454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No bc, maybe. < 1280945461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run dc -v < 1280945462 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280945464 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could just be broke too :P < 1280945469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or a pagan bc without -v? < 1280945480 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280945481 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280945483 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280945483 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280945486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it output stderr too, or just stdout? < 1280945486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run dc -v < 1280945487 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280945493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: um a list of digits is just one possible implementation of a lazy number type < 1280945493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run dc -v 2>&1 < 1280945495 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/bash: line 1: dc: command not found < 1280945500 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo hi < 1280945502 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1280945505 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that sorts that. < 1280945506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, well, that's more informative in any case. < 1280945513 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, no dc or bc. Weird. < 1280945519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls < 1280945519 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps < 1280945528 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh dc -v < 1280945529 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/dc: invalid option -- v < 1280945530 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well yes. It would be better if Haskell provided lazy reals as a primitive type, obviously, but beggars can't be choosers. < 1280945549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo 'scale=100; a(1)*4;' | bc -l < 1280945549 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307\ < 1280945572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh dc -e "[foo]P" < 1280945572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that works, though bc line-wraps it. (The rest came with DCC chat, as usual.) < 1280945573 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1280945594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1280945594 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1280945604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It might go wrong in the bottommost digits since the scale for a(1) is 40, and then I multiply that by 4. < 1280945607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!helpuserinterps < 1280945609 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps < 1280945610 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. < 1280945620 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yep. < 1280945620 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1280945621 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1280945632 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help addinterp < 1280945632 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addinterp: !addinterp . Add a new interpreter to EgoBot. This interpreter will be run once every time you type ! , and receive the program code as input. < 1280945652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t Data.Number.CReal.showCReal < 1280945675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : !haskell isn't GHCi < 1280945679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh echo $1 < 1280945679 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi installed. < 1280945683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi hello < 1280945686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi hello world < 1280945688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes it is < 1280945696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh echo $@ < 1280945696 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is already an interpreter for pi! < 1280945704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp pi < 1280945704 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi deleted. < 1280945705 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn "Hi" < 1280945708 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1280945714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't think it is < 1280945715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh echo $@ < 1280945715 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi installed. < 1280945717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280945721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi a b c < 1280945735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how do the args work, then? < 1280945739 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, pretty sure !haskell IS ghci < 1280945744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp pi < 1280945745 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi deleted. < 1280945753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, ^ < 1280945757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t "Yes it is" < 1280945758 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes it is" :: [Char] < 1280945760 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They are the input. < 1280945765 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1280945776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, hmm. < 1280945783 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdin, that is. < 1280945819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh read p; echo $p < 1280945819 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi installed. < 1280945822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280945826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi 23 < 1280945827 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 < 1280945837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280945859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: Isn't it just https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/index.cgi/file/1fe97d50a1d8/multibot_cmds/interps/ghc/runghc ? < 1280945868 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yup < 1280945879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's sh for "if $p == '', 0, else $p"? < 1280945900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reason not to like Smalltalk? < 1280945901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp pi < 1280945901 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi deleted. < 1280945946 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-40-27.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280945976 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280945983 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because Smalltalk killed my family. < 1280946019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a horrible, yet classy way < 1280946028 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ba-dum ching* < 1280946096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280946114 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280946119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Something like: if [ -n "$p" ]; then echo $p; else echo 0; fi < 1280946120 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh read p; if [ "x$p" = "x" ]; then p=0; fi; echo 'scale=$p; a(1)*4;' | bc -l < 1280946120 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi installed. < 1280946130 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi 5 < 1280946131 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(standard_in) 1: illegal character: $ < 1280946140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ -n "$p" ]] || $p < 1280946141 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp pi < 1280946141 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi deleted. < 1280946150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh read p; if [ "x$p" = "x" ]; then p=0; fi; echo "scale=$p; a(1)*4;" | bc -l < 1280946150 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi installed. < 1280946152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi 5 < 1280946152 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14156 < 1280946159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally... < 1280946164 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Y'know you can do this in a /query, right? :P < 1280946167 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi 500 < 1280946168 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307\ < 1280946194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, /query? I assume that's some black IRC magic. < 1280946215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280946216 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1280946218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Do both EgoBot and HackEgo speak to query? I've always wondered, but never dared to try it out, just in case they'd take offence at unsolicited private messaging. < 1280946226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops... < 1280946247 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: /query opens a PM window with a user :P < 1280946282 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They do not take offense, and enjoy private conversation. Do not be offended if they start getting overly personal, although their sex drives are quite powerful they are incapable of actually acting on it and so you have nothing to fear. < 1280946286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280946286 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14156 < 1280946290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better. < 1280946319 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to merge EgoBot, HackEgo and Hackiki into one lean, mean, arbitrary-code-runnin' machine. < 1280946411 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's its use? < 1280946414 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You could consider piping the bc output to | tr -d '\n\\' so that it all ends up in one row. (Though that would, I guess, limit you to IRC's maximum line length...) < 1280946431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, tr complains at that. < 1280946454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, damn single quotes... < 1280946492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi 500 < 1280946493 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081284811174502841027019385211055596446229489549303819644288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091456485669234603486104543266482133936072602491412737245870066063155881748815209209628292540917153643678925903600113305305488204665213841469519415116094330572703657595919530921861173819326117931051185480744 < 1280946499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1280946520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Come to think of it, instead do export BC_LINE_LENGTH=490 before the command, that way it'll be long but still continue if it wouldn't fit on a IRC-line. < 1280946550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, trying... < 1280946656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo limits | bc | tr '\n' ' ' < 1280946657 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BC_BASE_MAX = 2147483647 BC_DIM_MAX = 16777215 BC_SCALE_MAX = 2147483647 BC_STRING_MAX = 2147483647 MAX Exponent = 9223372036854775807 Number of vars = 32767 < 1280946669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will only go up to 2147483647, it seems. < 1280946677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's more than eleven. < 1280946694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, now it annoys you through DCC if you ask it for a billion digits. < 1280946705 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1280946736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION then has to try doing it on his own computer with a billion digits. < 1280946741 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280946751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as pi computation goes, I don't think bc a(1)*4 is very much on the efficient end of the spectrum. < 1280946764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280946911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/EbcM -- not the fastest thing in the west. < 1280947024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!he echo hello < 1280947025 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hello < 1280947026 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1280947040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!he echo fungot < 1280947040 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo fungot < 1280947041 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: another motive induces me to put the judgment of history, and to tear from the populace a single favourite. < 1280947041 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1280947056 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, fungot ignores his fellow bots < 1280947063 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, due to too many bot-loops. < 1280947081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo !pi < 1280947082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore < 1280947082 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280947082 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE) < 1280947087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the current list of it. < 1280947095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is toBogE? < 1280947117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot's evil twin, obviously < 1280947121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall; based on the name only, it may have been another EgoBot instance. < 1280947142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, explain. < 1280947174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it was his bot < 1280947177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently ran by immibis. < 1280947185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Based on a quick grep.) < 1280947187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1280947193 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, 'twasn't mine. < 1280947202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you'd definitely want to ignore that >:D < 1280947220 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's immibis < 1280947225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1280947239 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1280947253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a guy who liked to do verbose things with bots < 1280947268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is my user page. I created RubE_On_Conveyor_Belts and MailBox (page coming soon). I will occasionally come on irc.freenode.net #esoteric." < 1280947270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't seen him for a while < 1280947291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, /me exists for a reason. < 1280947312 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anywho, if I merged my bots, you could upload some code to the Esolangs Hackiki for an esolang, then run it here :) < 1280947314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't even notice that < 1280947354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen 'im last 2010-01-31 quitting with the message [Quit: #dsdev on irc.blitzed.org exists], but it might not be relevant to the prolonged silence. < 1280947391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: I imagine you could install [eso]interpreters written in arbitrary languages, instead of just the 'n' that EgoBot currently provides? < 1280947427 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without bugging me to update EgoBot's hg :) < 1280947534 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, I'd only have one bot on #esoteric X-P < 1280947534 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280947570 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-38-196.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280947805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: And access Hackiki articles here. :P < 1280947851 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except that people are clamoring for Hackiki as an adjunct, not a primary. < 1280947877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, that is the only workable option, really. < 1280947915 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having no Hackiki is also a workable model :P < 1280948154 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact! THERE ARE NO FUN FACTS. < 1280948194 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL FACTS ARE DEAD SERIOUS, AND MOST ARE PAINFUL TOO. < 1280948321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Good news everybody! I have eliminated all fun facts! < 1280948381 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280948398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact n = if n<=1 then 1 else n * fact(n-1) < 1280948428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; < 1280948506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1280949057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you have outdone yourself. < 1280949086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my work here is outdone. < 1280949140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mostly copied that from some SML link < 1280949452 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280951140 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280951158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why? < 1280951164 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact < 1280951367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This clone thing is driving me crazy... < 1280951390 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1280951396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well are you sure that you're really _you_ who are being driven crazy? < 1280951412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "crazy" figuratively. < 1280951423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, it's probably on the BBC somewhere. < 1280951447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then, are you sure that you're really _you_ who are being driven "crazy", figuratively? < 1280951451 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's on the front page of BBC news... < 1280951469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Are you insinuating that I am a clone? < 1280951504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey it was you that started it < 1280951582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, cloned COWS. < 1280951588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it < 1280951746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could be a cow, with those hooves < 1280951869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280951898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280952876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that it's better to get to the root cause of a bug than to just slap a if (whatever != null) in front of a line < 1280952913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how quaint! < 1280953126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (whatever == null) whatever = malloc(4096); /* here's some bytes for you */ < 1280953156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lowercase-"null" sounds non-C, though.) < 1280953181 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you don't need to check if whatever is null anymore!!! < 1280953283 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nullptr obv < 1280953283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead you can turn a new page < 1280953377 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I make top display in order of memory used? < 1280953380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top < 1280953388 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-38-196.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280953394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.*// < 1280953410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgets everything Phantom_Hoover has ever said < 1280953416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1280953477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The "top" I have here has a nifty quick-access thing that "M" makes it sort by the "%MEM" column. < 1280953501 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true ifTrue: [ Transcript show: 'Hi #esoteric!' ] < 1280953519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Smalltalk would be a decent first language < 1280953566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you wonder that with for every language. < 1280953576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you press "B" it bolds the current sort column, and then you can use < and > to move it left and right. < 1280953593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if x86-64 assembly would be a decent first language. < 1280953614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kids today, no idea how lucky they have it. < 1280953699 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Alan Kay wondered that too! < 1280953751 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one thing I dislike about Smalltalk is how casually stuff adds methods to root object classes < 1280953767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no namespace stuff, so potential for collision is rather high < 1280953809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it should be so that only the High Clergy is allowed to access the Holiest of Objects. < 1280953812 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby can suffer from that too. < 1280953822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I mean MatzLisp. < 1280954022 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing I don't like about Smalltalk is its syntax. < 1280954297 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280954347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, that's what I hate about Ruby < 1280954358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[And how non-unified it is. Magical blocks? < 1280954380 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I hate that Ruby is non-unified too. < 1280954401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have used the wrong phrase < 1280954418 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I caught what you mean anyway. < 1280954457 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It and Perl both belong to the "Magic is GOOD!" school... < 1280954474 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So does Python, but Python's in denial.) < 1280954492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic is GOOD!? < 1280954503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of magic? < 1280954523 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of wondering what pro-magic stuff is like < 1280954544 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sparkly, special magic that makes everything NEAT!!! < 1280954559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But having blocks not be objects? Really? < 1280954565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some weird yield keyword to get to blocks? < 1280954571 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gibbers < 1280954572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocks? < 1280954687 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the block thing was just a funny syntax for passing a lambda to something. < 1280954704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not, no matter! < 1280954710 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use more magic! < 1280954722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... is, except they're not objects < 1280954729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the receiver receives it as an object < 1280954736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can only pass one block to a method < 1280954753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, one block as a block. You can objectify blocks, but that's not normally how things are done < 1280954755 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else could the receiver receive it as? < 1280954791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ... thing detectable somehow [forgot how] and called with the yield keyword < 1280954804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the normal way of doing it < 1280954830 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic sugar! < 1280954888 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic sugar to make the magic chainsaw pretty! Whee! < 1280955049 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280955057 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, here's more definition fun like yesterday's reddit comment: "Blocks, Procs and lambdas (referred to as closures in Computer Science) are one of the most powerful aspects of Ruby, and also one of the most misunderstood." http://www.robertsosinski.com/2008/12/21/understanding-ruby-blocks-procs-and-lambdas/ < 1280955149 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280955206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, the closure-lambda confusion is actually pretty understandable. < 1280955243 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Agreed. Most because closures are a way to implement lambdas. < 1280955248 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mostly < 1280955293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How odd. I could've sworn CS called them "lambda expressions" or "anonymous functions". < 1280955310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the obvious caveat that they do, in some manner, close over their environment. < 1280955334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, lambdas are closures if closures are present. < 1280955393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not if your lambda syntax for some reason allows an option to not be a closure < 1280955403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make an esolang that does that! < 1280955410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^another thing I always say < 1280955478 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to regard "lambda" as jargon, and tend to prefer "function value" (which is flexible enough to be applied to either syntax or semantics, if it's clear from context.) < 1280955491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: C++0x < 1280955502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You list the variables, if any, that you close over. < 1280955514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in what manner (references or copies) < 1280955631 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, "lambda" is much easier to type than "anonymous function", though. < 1280955668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280955685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280955719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels free to :p at anyone who suggests that all lambdas are closures < 1280956111 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All ζs are φs. < 1280956161 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all squiggles are squiggles < 1280956294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power is power. < 1280956411 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Women is women, but MEN is men! < 1280956427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, tell that to alise. < 1280956618 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280956623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Two of most useful items in the game are: a magic marker and a can of grease. Both are disgustingly uncommon. * < 1280956623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most useful item in the game is easily a Wand of Wishing. Which you will then use to wish for grease and magic markers." -- The TV Tropes Wiki page on NetHack. < 1280956640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280956867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The atheist "OUT" campaign logo, FSM, ACLU, EFF, FIJA, Kopimi, pirate logo from The Pirate Bay, LGBT rainbow, NORML. < 1280956878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the most stereotypical Internet logo-sidebar ever. < 1280956918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we were just talking about you < 1280956950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I the Paris Hilton kind of celebrity or the Brain Cox kind of celebrity? < 1280956982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brain Cox, since I've never heard of him. < 1280957017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ! < 1280957045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The physicist? < 1280957046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: only the coolest particle physicist slash pop musician slash pop-science TV presenter ever < 1280957056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the only one. < 1280957065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I know him. < 1280957072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just terrible with names. < 1280957087 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a name for "Brain Cox after people believe he made a mistake"? < 1280957114 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now tragically confused and wants to hurt you all, you all < 1280957124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hi. < 1280957125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1280957150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: tl;dr in the UK we have a handful of celebrities who are intelligent and awesome < 1280957152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when did you stop logreading? < 1280957175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when talking to people outside britain we usually use the words "national treasure" to convey this. < 1280957182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram Alpha, "mass of sun in bananas" => input interpretation "banana | amount | 1 banana", and then a "nutrition facts" table with e.g. 6.562*10^24 metric tons of fat; but nowhere it mentions the sun any more. < 1280957185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I do it while chatting. < 1280957201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I would like those bananas, please. < 1280957218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a solar banana, I guess. < 1280957453 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: your best celebrity is Richard Clarkson, period < 1280957466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 Terry Pratchett < 1280957488 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck noo < 1280957490 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeremy < 1280957492 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1280957506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clarkson is a pig; an amusing pig, but a pig. < 1280957514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Conservative, global-warming-denying pig. < 1280957540 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmmmpf < 1280957574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Haldo < 1280957591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeremy Clockson? < 1280957608 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghh < 1280957625 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dave Gilmour < 1280957638 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of PINK FLOYD !11! < 1280957641 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know none of these names. < 1280957643 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION panics < 1280957661 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I guess I have heard of Terry Pratt. < 1280957703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately for you, Jeremy Clockson is fictional < 1280957729 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you son of a clock! < 1280957732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :David Gilmour is ... very dull. < 1280957764 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i like it when he plays < 1280957810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a C emitter < 1280957817 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what for? < 1280957819 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been a while since I wrote anything that wasn't an interpreter < 1280957823 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Eightebed < 1280957828 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that? < 1280957855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bliss < 1280957855 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: My way of telling Gregor he is wrong, wrong, WRONG < 1280957873 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what? < 1280957895 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, something to do with GC or something. One sec < 1280957896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safe Coids. < 1280957911 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is eightebed the one with safe pointers? < 1280957922 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only problem being that I'm right, right, RIGHT < 1280957939 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: tried MacRuby ? < 1280957950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: a long time ago. < 1280957960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: how is it not utterly boring? < 1280957966 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes. And dancing beagles, if you're lucky < 1280957988 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet! I love dancing beagles! < 1280958003 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles ruby to llvm and then llvm emits native code < 1280958006 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: "A language which provides a true explicit free() cannot be safe. (By "true" I mean that you can get that memory back in a later malloc().) To be safe a language must either never free (which is bad) or be GC'd." -- Gregor's claim < 1280958033 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's enormously fast compared to mri and other implementations < 1280958047 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: what's the reason for that claim? < 1280958054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Great. A quick way to run a language so boring it makes me want to aestivate. < 1280958058 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280958066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That only runs on a rather naff proprietary operating system. < 1280958070 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to be perfectly clear, I am only referring to C-like languages :P < 1280958078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ruby, boring? Magic sugar chainsaw language, BORING??? < 1280958081 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you like roby < 1280958082 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby < 1280958087 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i asked you < 1280958108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: that was in a past life, one filled with a lot more gradients and drop shadows < 1280958110 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, now Gregor can say Eightebed proves nothing because it's not sufficiently "C-like" < 1280958114 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, imperative languages with pointers at arbitrary data, where safety is defined as not seeing that data as a different type. < 1280958118 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: rotfl < 1280958146 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it is that, at least < 1280958155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was feeling like Sisyphus there for a sec < 1280958170 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I have further-specified all my horribly-ambiguous claims ;) < 1280958210 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1280958211 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And here is my reasoning: If you can relinquish memory to the system then reallocate it, you can alias that under two types, since detecting whether a reference is still in use statically is equivalent to the halting problem. < 1280958240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flergh, why do languages suck? < 1280958240 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you can alias it under two types, then of course you can write one type and read another, causing the universe to explode ^^ < 1280958258 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: which? < 1280958260 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: that assumes that the memory is returned unchanged < 1280958278 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No it doesn't, you'll still have two references to it. You just need to write through one and read through another even if it's reinited. < 1280958283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: all of them < 1280958297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280958311 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: ah, I see what you mean < 1280958312 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually languages are very good, all languages, I find people who can;t get their punctuation right! Believe this. < 1280958312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I've fallen in love with Smalltalk, I think < 1280958316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280958318 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int **a = /* allocate */; dostuff(a) /* I don't know that dostuff will free a */; int *b = /* allocate */; *b = whatever; **a /*boom*/; < 1280958328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because you love hating everything? < 1280958329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I see. It is flawed. < 1280958341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, it really does suck < 1280958346 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Your reasoning is pretty awesome X-D < 1280958347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: name a good language < 1280958349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk? < 1280958353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, besides the commonality of un-namespaced methods being added to core objects on a regular basis, what's wrong with it? < 1280958354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, everything. < 1280958357 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't I stop falling in love with flawed languages? D-'8 < 1280958366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you saying that there are no good languages? < 1280958370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: you require a lobotomy < 1280958380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ones you can actually use, at least < 1280958393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought you like Haskell. < 1280958412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what are Smalltalk's flaws? < 1280958415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but haskell is one of the most disappointing languages < 1280958418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in potential vs reality < 1280958419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: numerous < 1280958429 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) It is not sufficiently spicy. < 1280958435 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "potential vs reality" < 1280958437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280958448 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) When you serialize its environment and print it out, it takes too many pages. < 1280958454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a language "recognisably similar to", "of the same strain as" Haskell could have been truly epically amazing < 1280958461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell itself is ... good, but, you know. < 1280958467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not /holy shit fucking awesome cakes/. < 1280958480 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) Any language with "Small" in it threatens my masculinity. < 1280958487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you aren't making any sense. < 1280958494 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) Any language with "talk" in it threatens my masculinity. < 1280958496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, I really am. < 1280958512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am saying that Haskell had, before it was made concrete, /huge potential/ < 1280958519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am saying that it disappoints, based on this potential. < 1280958535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could this not just be you expecting too much? < 1280958541 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO472qM6M9g < 1280958548 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha... i don't even... < 1280958576 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell code is often just as hard to read as Perl. And usually harder to understand. < 1280958581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i've seen the seeds of development that create languages so much less disappointing and in the vein of haskell < 1280958596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they are usually quite impractical (dependently-typed programming hasn't been worked out yet), but ... < 1280958598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what, fuck it < 1280958606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because you did a good job doesn't mean you created something excellent < 1280958610 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if all languages suck... < 1280958613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is unfulfilling with Haskell itself? < 1280958623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retarded kids can try really hard and do a really excellent job and produce a piece of paper with the letter A on it, that is not amazing < 1280958643 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you're conflating "sucks" with "isn't perfect". < 1280958651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: type system has too many special features to handle things like typeclasses, etc., requires extensions which can't be inferred and make stuff blargh to be useful ... < 1280958657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntactical quirks < 1280958659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad standard library < 1280958659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still curious about Smalltalk's flaws < 1280958678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, really, haskell sucks compared to what languages could be, we just all have terrible standards < 1280958699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i am fucking tired < 1280958714 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is it even possible to create a language that does not suck? in your opinion < 1280958728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I've heard that it's bad to put built binaries in version control, but why < 1280958729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280958740 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sir, I submit to you that a flying machine is a physical impossibility. < 1280958756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i defer to cpressey < 1280958773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: version control systems mostly suck at binaries, they could be out of date, it's generally pointless < 1280958779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they mostly suck at binaries. < 1280958803 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hackiki has binaries in its VCS ... but then it's not really being used as a VCS X-P < 1280958813 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, the Plof Hackiki does anyway) < 1280958814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, have any better way for me to get the stuff to the host given that I only have RDP access? < 1280958851 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages < 1280958869 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use mainly ruby and C < 1280958888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but there is shit significantly better than we have < 1280958897 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if there's no holy grail, that doesn't mean cups of crap is ok < 1280958917 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages even if there's no holy grail, that doesn't mean cups of crap is ok < 1280958924 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :206| i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages even if there's no holy grail, that doesn't mean cups of crap is ok < 1280958943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: TWO SPACES BETWEEN MESSAGES < 1280958957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so why has noöne made a better one < 1280958975 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like you guys deny whole history of computing < 1280958985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why does no-one use the diaeresis? < 1280958987 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They're too busy making lolcats on icanhazcheeseburger.com < 1280958991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you mean, things slowly, steadily improving? < 1280959041 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"modern cars are shitty, every single one of them - you can crash, they don't teleport and you have to know how to drive" < 1280959046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.. < 1280959053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.\.$/./ < 1280959069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, noöne is interrupting. < 1280959070 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shit, i've seen beatuful cars, fast cars, comfortable cars, usable cars < 1280959071 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1280959074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nooga is. < 1280959077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you know, innovation is possible and happens. < 1280959086 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1280959087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: and there is significant evidence of the possibility of good languages < 1280959097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can easily be seen how technology has been held back if you study it a bit < 1280959110 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but complaining about current state without active search for future solutions < 1280959113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cars have been around since pick a date according to your definition of car < 1280959117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so then why has noöne made one? It's not like making a car; you only need a computer, intelligence and time. < 1280959117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers are new and people suck at them < 1280959123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: guess what? Just because we whine about it doesn't mean we aren't looking. < 1280959131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even cpressey is, in his own way. < 1280959158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why hasn't anyone formulated the Grand Unified Theory yet? It's not like making a car; you only need pen, paper, intelligence and time. < 1280959188 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe human brain is too small for that :F < 1280959192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there isn't really any evidence that one of them exists, but you act like there must obviously be a perfect language. < 1280959199 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even me! ~~ < 1280959200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, people have made /better/ languages, it's just that today's /ecosystems/ like operating systems etc. aren't very friendly to them < 1280959214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages no, but there is shit significantly better than we have < 1280959227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your definition of "acting", "explicitly denies"? < 1280959250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1280959274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. OK, s/perfect language/better language/ < 1280959299 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280959320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wait, you are actually saying that it's not obvious a better language exists than the ones we use today? < 1280959326 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are the properties of language better than existing ones? < 1280959339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking hell, you like Lisp; people who do day-to-day programming, C and shit, they have no idea about Lisp < 1280959352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we *have* Lisp, though. < 1280959354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it so hard to imagine a better language that is unknown like Lisp and impractical in today's world in the same ways as Lisp? < 1280959360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we have Epigram, too < 1280959378 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it suck? < 1280959423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1280959427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but less so < 1280959459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's almost entirely theoretical because nobody wants to bother making a practical language because it's hard and nobody gives you any support or thanks, just "and how can I HTTP synergise with this?" < 1280959469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus modern academic language design. < 1280959480 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awful < 1280959517 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't write a modern OS using some heavily math based language < 1280959518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :care to qualify that awful? say, give it an object to indicate what is awful? < 1280959523 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. you can < 1280959532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"of course it's almost entirely theoretical because nobody wants to bother making a practical language because it's hard and nobody gives you any support or thanks" < 1280959535 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be worse than selfdestruction < 1280959541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, FAIL. < 1280959562 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if Solaris was written in Haskell < 1280959568 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i call fail < 1280959573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine Solaris. < 1280959576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I call fail. < 1280959577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, do you seriously think "good" = "you can write an OS in it"? < 1280959583 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo < 1280959585 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280959596 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i still think that languages are tools < 1280959611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, AND ACADEMIC LANGUAGES AREN'T TOOLS FOR OS DESIGN < 1280959614 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need hamer? use hammer. you need scalpel? use scalpel < 1280959632 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i konow < 1280959634 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know < 1280959636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We *have* tools for OS design. < 1280959645 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1280959648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, conventional OS design, anyway. < 1280959658 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1280959667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, so how does it reflect badly on Haskell that you couldn't write an OS in it? < 1280959676 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not] < 1280959677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have good non-academic languages because CREATING GOOD PRACTICAL LANGUAGES JUST GETS YOU INSULTS, FLAMES AND NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER < 1280959679 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point was < 1280959690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It has been done (for some definitions of "OS"). < 1280959690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least ACADEMIC languages are RESPECTED and get you *ACADEMIC CREDIT* < 1280959694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see what's so bad about Smalltalk :/ < 1280959703 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax < 1280959705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a SELF PERPETUATING PROBLEM caused by the IDIOCY of today's computing and it is /everyone's fucking fault/. < 1280959707 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tools < 1280959710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, syntax sucks. < 1280959712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just shut up < 1280959718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Phantom_Hoover is wrong :P < 1280959721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk is pretty damn good < 1280959726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have doubts about OOP in general < 1280959729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ... imperative programming < 1280959731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's a damned lot better than many other OO-type languages. However, it does have flaws. < 1280959755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For now at least, I'd consider it the example of how to do OO right. < 1280959769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to know what those flaws are :/ < 1280959771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not because it can't be better, but because just about everything else is *worse*) < 1280959783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did the designers of Haskell get flamed and insulted? < 1280959805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Didn't when it was purely academic. It does now. < 1280959810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Uh ... yeah, Haskell is regularly insulted. The only reason the designers didn't take it and the fans now do, is because it was /originally a highly academic language/. < 1280959826 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha! < 1280959836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it became popular and people started writing bad libraries and crap in it, giving it bad package management tools, flooding the channel with bullshit, and then everyone else pointed and laughed. < 1280959852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The syntax is irritating, it's dynamically typed, and it's dynamically typed. < 1280959853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus demonstrating the immense worthwhileness of creating a good, practical language. < 1280959854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, people will write bad libraries anyway. < 1280959855 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've met Phil Wadler in Edinburgh! < 1280959857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Immense meaning "0". < 1280959861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dynamic typing is that much of a failure) < 1280959869 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said 'hi' to me < 1280959870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah, but some haskell code /really, truly/ misunderstands what haskell is. an awful lot of it < 1280959877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Smalltalk's syntax is fine, dammit. < 1280959891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's because you can't have an idiot detector in the compiler. < 1280959901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Okay, fine. s/The syntax is irritating/It's dynamically typed/ < 1280959906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transcript show: 'I can survive this.'; cr. < 1280959910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how about we agree that you ignore that part of the sentence < 1280959912 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Wadler ) < 1280959913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and read the rest of it < 1280959949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what are statically-typed Smalltalk-like languages? < 1280959963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Strongtalk, I think had something ... maybe ... but basically nothing ... < 1280959967 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Oh, the dude who compared monads to a solution to Descartes' mind-body problem? < 1280959976 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280959993 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's loose < 1280959998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hey, Wadler is awesome. Just ... not that specific thing. < 1280960012 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Better put him back in his cage then. < 1280960015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't get why people writing bad libraries will stop with a better language, though. Which seems from here to be your point. < 1280960017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also amazes me the people that think that pretty much anything functional is "magic". < 1280960059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I thought we agreed to ignore that part? < 1280960068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other part am I not ignoring? < 1280960070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Then it became popular XXXXX, giving it bad package management tools, flooding the channel with bullshit, and then everyone else pointed and laughed. < 1280960081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada, no more things about libraries for you to complain about. < 1280960096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OK, so your point is that people started laughing when the idiots came. < 1280960104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1280960106 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i used bad word < 1280960111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is it became popular then people started laughing. < 1280960115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idiots were just a side note. < 1280960116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore it. < 1280960121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking hell, I'm insanely tired, cut me slack. < 1280960138 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean't 'cool' but 'loose' is exact translation from PL < 1280960162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so why did people start laughing? < 1280960172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because it became popular < 1280960176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had to synergise HTTP. < 1280960181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are these monads? In enterprise we do not use monads! < 1280960188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You innovate, but how does this interact with RUBY? < 1280960199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha, all this mathematical masturbation. How does it help me drive my toaster? < 1280960200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now brb. < 1280960218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what a compromise between static and dynamic typing might look like < 1280960225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that allows safety and flexibility < 1280960234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but surely your view of a better language would be more mathematical than Haskell? < 1280960253 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's what I fear < 1280960256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe something similar, but not identical, to OCaml's and Scala's statically-typed duck-typing-like thing? < 1280960284 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you apply lazy evaluation to the type system and do lazy type-checking? < 1280960314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes but *wince* < 1280960321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr at http://www.pharo-project.org/home < 1280960324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, wrong link < 1280960329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr at http://www.smalltalk.org/articles/article_20041002_a1.html < 1280960349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They imply that that fault is static type checking's fault, when it's a fault with that particular type system < 1280960360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine that, say, dependent types would work well there < 1280960386 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280960463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Static typing as in C might not be the answer, but that's no reason to throw out static typing altogether < 1280960466 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to the point, type systems do not and never will preclude bugs. < 1280960529 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1280960582 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The fact that Smalltalk's numbers "scale" - in this case small integers scale to larger numbers - dynamically has everything to do with a benefit over statically typed numbers." < 1280960594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Static typing as in C is absolutely not the answer. < 1280960606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has static typing? < 1280960613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Static, weak typing. < 1280960616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1280960629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: Nope, it just precludes certain classes of bugs. Only idiots think static typing is the magic solution to all bugs. < 1280960643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, there are a large number of idiots. < 1280960668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static typing is not the solution to all bugs < 1280960670 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it helps < 1280960710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if by types we stopped meaning, say, Numbers, Strings, etc, and started meaning, say, XCoord, YCoord, Distance, DisplayedString, etc. < 1280960775 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are various languages that allow opaque retyping < 1280960789 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's what Hungarian Notation was originally supposed to be < 1280960797 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1280960809 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Microsoft Microsofted the hell out of it < 1280960821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Joel endorses that sort of Hungarian Notation < 1280960841 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate hn < 1280960841 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to make it part of the language (one of my languages - Dieter) < 1280960844 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280960887 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280960948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, seems easy enough < 1280961025 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no Dieter in our wiki < 1280961034 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It took me a while -- but it was more complicated than just that (the type system has polymorphic typing with type qualifiers) < 1280961038 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it's not very esoteric < 1280961043 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show plz < 1280961128 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/dieter/ < 1280961427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# The DevTeam implemented an immediate and savage punishment for pudding farmers. It's called Pudding Farming." -- The TV Tropes Wiki article on NetHack. < 1280961836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'd imagine that, say, dependent types would work well there < 1280961841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependent types have their own whole host of problems. < 1280961853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are unruly enough to be a Bad Idea unless the type language is total. < 1280961861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the type language is total, that implies a full functional language, more or less... < 1280961867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that point, why use an imperative language at the base? < 1280961871 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain? < 1280961874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, dependent side-effecting types are hard. < 1280961892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Explain what? < 1280961897 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My program doesn't terminate, my macros don't terminate, and now my type checking doesn't terminate! Boffo. < 1280961912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total type languages, unruliness, dependent types... < 1280961916 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280961947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Type language: the language used in the type system. if you don't realise that types are expressions, you don't know what dependent programming is < 1280961952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unruly: hard to control, nearly impossible to use < 1280961956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependent types: you yourself used this term < 1280961963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi comex < 1280961969 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1280961980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean I understood it, except vaguely as "A type that can be constrained to be, say, between 1 and 5" < 1280961982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: are the details of your jailbreak exploit public? < 1280961984 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm probably way off base < 1280962047 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-13-11.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280962094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, total? < 1280962120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: tl;dr terminating < 1280962243 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280962307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "total" in the sense that it is defined for all input values? < 1280962317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is where the term originates. < 1280962340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means all functions are total; thus no non-terminating replies; thus in a functional language as this applies to, all programs terminate < 1280962356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah. < 1280962372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't have a practical, dependently-typed language? < 1280962378 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vimeo.com/9056286 HOW COOL IS THAT < 1280962378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Untrue. < 1280962383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just haven't figured out how yet. < 1280962384 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want one < 1280962392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is Ongoing Research. Ask Connor McBride. He'll dazzle you with confusion. < 1280962404 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if all functions are terminating you can't even write cat... < 1280962433 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are current dependently typed languages impractical? < 1280962434 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well cat is modelled with a Beuchi automaton, you see... < 1280962440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Untrue. < 1280962444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Codata allows infinite data. < 1280962452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Codata...? < 1280962454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This is why we say "total", not "always-terminating". < 1280962455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Büchi < 1280962460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: codata is this thing. < 1280962528 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What thing? < 1280962559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's complicated. < 1280962575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it when people ask questions that boil down to "please summarise this large field of study in a line" < 1280962577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*line". < 1280962594 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing that makes writing a simple cat pain < 1280962596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: instead of constructors you have destructors and they can be infinite. < 1280962605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: no, untrue, you can have a non-total base language < 1280962612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: also, using codata is friggin' easy < 1280962613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, looked it up. < 1280962617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not explaining it. < 1280962625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: try explaining imperative programmer to a "native" functional programmer < 1280962627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll sound like a madman. < 1280962629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, incidentally, the typography at http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/groups/tatami/handdemos/doc/coind.htm is awful. < 1280962645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I see no typography < 1280962668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a gaudy background image, no CSS styling, and some old bitmap images for Greek letters. < 1280962672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/typography/rendering of mathematical Things/ < 1280962827 0 :augur_!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280962834 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280962844 0 :augur_!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280962890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nurse dancing is a minor tactic in NetHack. If you are naked and wielding nothing, a nurse will heal you instead of hurting you. If the healing attacks would heal you past your normal max hit points, your max hit points will increase." < 1280962984 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280962992 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1280963068 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280963080 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but the FACT is our computers have such a thing called STATE < 1280963111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and functional languages don't deny it. However, the "LOL computers have STATE" argument is basically preschool as far as functional languages are concerned and I have better things to do* than reply to it. < 1280963114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*such as nothing < 1280963125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe googling will turn up the answer to your complaint. Maybe not. < 1280963140 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pretending that there's no such thing as STATE and trying to explain it to our computers is going the way round < 1280963140 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1280963150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're stupid. < 1280963172 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just think that 'pure' languages are impractical for most uses < 1280963182 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc there are some cases when they rock < 1280963201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FACT, nooga, is that all computers have BITS in them! So I make sure to write all my programs to do bitwise operations on my data. < 1280963224 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=,= < 1280963227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do any less would be passing up a great opportunity! < 1280963244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe has quantum mechanics. I cannot take a reference to a variable without its value changing. < 1280963253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280963254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is because my language is done the right way around. < 1280963256 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruling out state is much bigger abstraction than covering few bits with numbers < 1280963287 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280963301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, so? < 1280963510 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overkill < 1280963532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an awful argument < 1280963546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like you took a supremely mediocre argument, then just sort of dragged it down < 1280963603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:52:48 But right now, after expunging my mind of the syntax horror that is OCaml, I'm obsessed with Smalltalk < 1280963608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you missed the nice language < 1280963610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax isn't that bad < 1280963612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like it < 1280963660 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how I could ever come to like OCaml, after tasting Haskell's [mostly] syntactical glory < 1280963671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, uh, ocaml has better syntax than haskell in many many places < 1280963677 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not glory, but cleanlinesslooking < 1280963694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have to write it < 1280963700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reminisce about ocaml < 1280963714 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, cars got 4 wheels, but you dont have to turn them personally, instead of that you use driving wheel and the engine takes care of the rest... but virtually you could build an extremely complicated robot that'd drive the car for you basing on your wishes < 1280963748 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's an overkill... nowadays, at least < 1280963756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga you really don't understand what you're talking about < 1280963757 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280963778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:40:56 "; has type unit -> 'b -> 'b" ;; that's a lie, ; is synta < 1280963779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*syntax < 1280963788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1280963802 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h27.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280963809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITS A TARP < 1280963817 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1280963821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually agree that languages are tools, but I would agree with the statement "pick the right abstraction for the job". Sometimes "stateful" is the right abstraction, sometimes "stateless" is, sometimes there is no right answer. < 1280963822 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's possible < 1280963823 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280963848 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i agree < 1280963869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Of course, the whole point is that /stateful/ can happen in a stateless language. < 1280963876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statelessness is an /abstraction/ of statefulness. < 1280963883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why you can perfectly well write imperative code in Haskell. < 1280963888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why people whining about it are stupid. < 1280963921 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280963922 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to make AW SDK bindings for Smalltalk now < 1280963970 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how natural it is... we use some monadic trickery to mimic tatefulness in a stateless language that compiles to stateful language running on stateful machine < 1280963987 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like an optimal solution < 1280964011 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1280964017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, you don't get abstractions, do you? < 1280964040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nooga successfully ascends to the level of "assumption-making, stands-on-shoulders-of-giants (CPU architecture) but objects to adding more, complete and utter troll". < 1280964042 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I? < 1280964062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Jews would circumsize you at this point. < 1280964070 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not want < 1280964105 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, let's just assume that i am completely wrong, eot < 1280964166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I support this assumption! < 1280964168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not really < 1280964274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram compilation fails for some reason... < 1280964286 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C emitted for Eightebed needs work, but it runs without crashing now! http://pastie.org/1076160 < 1280964287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Could not find module `Control.Applicative':" < 1280964345 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*emitter < 1280964364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, my mere mortal eyes suggest that that's not valid C. < 1280964370 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280964375 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Indeed sir. < 1280964402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the [DeRef]? < 1280964446 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just stubbed out the emitter stuff for variable references. And the struct contents, you see. < 1280964483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jim = eightebed_malloc(sizeof(node); < 1280964486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed a ). < 1280964496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, so totally abbreviate it as 8ebed, if C allows starting an identifier with 8. < 1280964505 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe tonight, I'll finish it. Then I'll still need to work on the runtime. And optionally the validity analyzer (although I could just write out the rules, say they must be followed, and not implement them) < 1280964520 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: indeed. I don't think it does. Maybe _8ebed. < 1280964553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Could I also inform you that it should be "node *foo", not "node* foo"? You can lynch me if you want. < 1280964588 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: HAH. Next you'll want it to be indented and all. < 1280964630 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has this weird convention in decls about variables "being" the pointers instead of the types. But you know that probably. < 1280964660 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Instead of the types being pointer types. Except they are. Oh, C.) < 1280964707 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know of any languages where you can dynamically change the types of variables? < 1280964742 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Python comes immediately to mind. Of course, their values will generally change too. < 1280964769 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: variables don't have types in Python, only values < 1280964781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, granted. < 1280964822 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280964841 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. foo := 4; foo @= string; foo == "4" # true < 1280964856 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You could build a container that has a (dynamically changeable) type in Python, I suppose. < 1280964897 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h238.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280964908 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: But what's stopping me from saying that all Python variables have a type, and that type is just derived from the type of the value that the variable is holding? < 1280964922 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't seem to be too different from your e.g. < 1280964955 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280964960 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: because in my example, subsequently trying foo := 4 again would be an error because foo is a string < 1280964972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but foo := 4 @ string would be fine) < 1280964991 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any idea why Epigram won't compile? < 1280965002 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: How is that dynamically changeable? Dynamically establishable, maybe... < 1280965007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because it hates you! < 1280965016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do you have she? < 1280965020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1280965029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not an idiot at error diagnostics. < 1280965044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have ghc 6.12? < 1280965048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram requires it. < 1280965083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1280965100 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, must be off now. Slight chance I'll be back on later tonight. Ahoy! < 1280965101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The specific error pertains to a lack of Control.Applicative. < 1280965103 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280965128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi imports this without complaint. < 1280965135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Please pastie the whole log. < 1280965198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1076195 < 1280965237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^ < 1280965257 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280965328 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280965337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What command did you use? < 1280965351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is a member of the hidden package `base'. < 1280965351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is a member of the hidden package `base-3.0.3.2'. < 1280965359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you SURE you have 6.*12*? < 1280965360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please check < 1280965396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. It's definitely 6.12. < 1280965410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command was "make dep" in Pig09/src < 1280965422 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280965510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A distant_figure! < 1280965516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *shrug* try rolling back revisions, report bug < 1280965804 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280966031 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1280966111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so there's no obvious reason for this? < 1280966125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be in the standard import path... < 1280966139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i have no clue < 1280966185 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must build a turtle fence! < 1280966240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, wha? < 1280966291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's right, you know. < 1280966297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qizNQKzatXA < 1280966594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:38:41 I don't recall; based on the name only, it may have been another EgoBot instance. < 1280966599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was immibis' annoyance machine < 1280966679 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1280966738 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to fix a typo in Pharo without breaking other people's code < 1280966760 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doit < 1280966770 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter part is what's stopping me < 1280966779 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at this changes thing, and I see code changes < 1280966783 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just my typo fix < 1280966799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Epigram HATE me? < 1280966881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because it is a sensitive person. < 1280966974 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so the changeset against Pharo is just the change I want, but the changeset against PharoInbox isn't < 1280966980 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I just save to PharoInbox anyway? < 1280966983 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is scared < 1280967351 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saved < 1280967484 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.squeaksource.com/PharoInbox/ < 1280968338 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280968405 0 :deathmoniac!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280968406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280968473 0 :deathmoniac!~turing@200-161-62-244.dsl.telesp.net.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1280968734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the Star Wars Holiday Special is considered canon. < 1280968744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Holiday Special is important, at least to serious fans, for being the first film-length Star Wars story to appear following the release of Episode IV, as well as showing an expanded look at parts of the established universe. The program is considered canon with regards to Chewie's family, including the celebration of Life Day." < 1280969139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1280969163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaarghthathurts < 1280969180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is AWESOME. < 1280969234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it kinda impresses me how much better output pdfTeX generates than straight TeX. < 1280969247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://texblog.net/latex-archive/layout/pdflatex-microtype/ Seriously, just look at this. < 1280969270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lesson: Knuth is stupid. < 1280969278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(granted, the difference should be nowhere near as notable on normal-width columns, but... Dang.) < 1280969306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I wouldn't say that. Keep in mind that pdfTeX is pretty much the first thing this side of Gutenberg to do comprehensive microtypography. < 1280969325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: KNUTH IS BASICALLY A RETARD WHO KNOWS NOTHING < 1280969330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has he ever done for us, also the romans < 1280969331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1280969415 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: have you seen the iTeX video? < 1280969440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, but i don't expect the joke to be that hilarious < 1280969450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finally gets round to reading Five-Minute Voyager, instantly falls in love < 1280969451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chakotay: Ha! Chakotay 1, Cardassians 0! < 1280969451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuvok: (detecting the wave) Um, you might want to reconsider that.... < 1280969451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway: Here's the deal -- betray your Maquis pals, and I'll bust you out of here. < 1280969451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paris: No. On second thought, yes. < 1280969509 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1280969526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fiveminute.net/voyager/; http://www.fiveminute.net/voyager/fiver.php?ep=caretaker < 1280969586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep copying a quote but my mouse drags it further and further and eventually I end up trying to quote the whole thing < 1280969767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Janeway promotes B'Elanna for punching Carey in the face." < 1280969895 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kazon: Can we keep the water? < 1280969895 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neelix: Hmm...no. < 1280969954 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wave is dying? < 1280969974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway: Oof! Hey, a shockwave! < 1280969974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuvok: Yep. Came from that planet. < 1280969974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway: It's still emitting harmful radiation, so let's go towards it. < 1280970021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paris: I thought we weren't supposed to break the Prime Directive. < 1280970021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway: We already did, so now we can do it as much as we want. < 1280970026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $// < 1280970048 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a TNG that I liked that I want to see the 5min of < 1280970089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sort of only works on terrible shows. < 1280970097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But here: http://fiveminute.net/nextgen/ < 1280970109 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a Wesley episode < 1280970113 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280970117 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of the commentary is making fun of that :/ < 1280970122 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fiveminute.net/voyager/fiver.php?ep=theomegadirective < 1280970123 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1280970125 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neelix: Okay -- just had to get a line in somewhere in this episode. < 1280970156 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: which one? < 1280970162 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fiveminute.net/nextgen/fiver.php?ep=thegame < 1280970410 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr at 403 < 1280970447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway: So the plan is to fly right into the hands of the Kazon. Any objections? < 1280970447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuvok: Nine. < 1280970493 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't Year of Hell generally considered good? < 1280970528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voyager is universally terrible. < 1280970554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some episodes are alright in isolation. < 1280970572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you realise that Janeway is a crazy sociopath with multiple personalities^Wwriters. < 1280970587 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen enough episodes to realize that, I think < 1280970609 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading that the actor actually complained? < 1280970615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doc: Bad news, baby. This baby isn't Chakotay's. < 1280970615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seska: $#@*%! It must be Culluh's! < 1280970615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doc: The computer's checking that with a DNA test. Ah, here we go. The baby's parents are...Mulder and Scully? What the--? Computer! < 1280970616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer: Can I help it if I'm a 'shipper? < 1280970633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Chakotay's wooden playing is purposeful; the actor hated the show and really didn't give a shit. < 1280970643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway's actor (who cares about names?) also disliked it quite a bit. < 1280970654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it's great to watch because it's hilariously bad. < 1280970669 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1280970673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kes: I wanna get captured. < 1280970673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neelix: Look, we've discussed this. I'm not comfortable with a relationship involving S&M. < 1280970673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kes: No, by the cavemen. < 1280970673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neelix: Don't change the subject to exclusivity. < 1280970720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Culluh: I love all the gadgets on this ship. Watch this -- I can turn the ceiling fan on and off. < 1280970720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seska: Maj, someone on board is using Maquis sabotage tricks! < 1280970720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Culluh: Fan goes on, fan goes off. Fan goes on, fan goes off. < 1280970723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST. QUOTE. EVERYTHING. < 1280970761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doc: I'm afraid Suder was killed. < 1280970761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuvok: Guess I should say something Vulcan-like. (ahem) "Live long and prosper." < 1280970761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doc: I don't think you heard me. He's dead. < 1280970761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuvok: If you can't find it in your heart to wish him a long life, keep your mouth shut. < 1280970799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data: It is made of anti-time. And it is giving off anti-time radiation. < 1280970801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: Shhh! Janeway will hear you! < 1280970851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280970863 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1076332 CTO < 1280970876 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data: Aye, sir. Ooooooo! It appears the anomaly has been created by three converging tachyon beams from three different times. < 1280970879 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: What an amazing coincidence! I've been in three different times and fired tachyon beams in this exact spot. < 1280970882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data: Perhaps those phenomena are related. < 1280970884 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: I don't see how, but I'll switch to my future self. He's had more time to think about it. < 1280970891 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my new toy < 1280970925 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C subset jibberish generator < 1280970930 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1076334 < 1280970934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway: Mr. Kim, the date! I need to know the exact date! < 1280970934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kim: November 23rd...1996! < 1280970934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chakotay: November 23rd. The day before First Contact was released. < 1280970934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway: That's what they came here to do! Stop First Contact! Ensign, where is the launch scheduled to take place? < 1280970966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1280971002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starling: Ha ha! I've stolen your doctor! < 1280971003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone: (over the comm) Yay! < 1280971003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starling: I was expecting "Uh oh" or "Oh nuts" or something. < 1280971039 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Future Riker: Take us in, Mr. Data. Hey, look, the other two Enterprises are on the viewscreen. < 1280971042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BOOM) < 1280971045 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Future Riker: Other one Enterprise. < 1280971047 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BOOM) < 1280971050 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Future Riker: Forget it. < 1280971053 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Future Crusher: Wait! There's a pattern here! If it holds, then -- < 1280971055 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BOOM) < 1280971088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280971098 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ekhm < 1280971104 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCCCCCCCC... < 1280971183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chakotay: Seen any cloaked fleets lately? < 1280971183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seven: Words fail me. Hey, a transmission. < 1280971211 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280971282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paris: I found Chakotay and Harry in the morgue. < 1280971282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuvok: Their sacrifice will not be forgotten. < 1280971282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paris: They aren't dead. < 1280971282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuvok: Damn. < 1280971320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some literate programming systems designed for specific programming languages, such as Pascal WEB, CWEB, Enhanced CWEB, etc. And there are some generic literate programming aystems that can be used with any programming language, such as noweb, FunnelWeb, Newfangle, and also yesweb. < 1280971350 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sprunge.us/fOZT < 1280971358 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Please look at it? Make comment of it? etc?) < 1280971390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admiral: Okay, class, ask me some questions. < 1280971390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Student 1: Why are you just going by "Admiral"? < 1280971390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admiral: "Admiral Janeway" takes too long to type. Next? < 1280971390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Student 2: Do you intend to travel back in time and alter history so that Voyager gets home 16 years earlier, violating the Temporal Prime Directive and risking irreparable damage to the timestream? < 1280971390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admiral: I plead the Fifth. < 1280971400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I see. < 1280971406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's ... TeXy. < 1280971439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Looks quite cool. < 1280971452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The \expandafter command is a useful command in TeX. Also strange things such as \catcode110=14 < 1280971472 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is \catcode110=14 more strange or less strange than using prompt().toString() in JavaScript? < 1280971514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ... what? < 1280971526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are apples more or less strange than trees? < 1280971562 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crusher: It's just to underline the weird temporal properties of the anomaly. We'll also be killing Ogawa's baby to make that point. < 1280971568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes it is written using TeX, it uses Plain TeX. Newfangle is written in LaTeX and requires no separate program to weave (weave is implemented as a set of LaTeX macros), but it uses a seperate program written in awk for tangle. yesweb is written entirely in Plain TeX and doesn't require anything else. < 1280971590 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know if apples more/less strange than trees? But is that relevant? I don't actually know if it is relevant or not < 1280971625 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any material on how to use TeX as a general-purpose programming language? without the typesetting crud? < 1280971649 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1280971650 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't know. But I might have partially done so in yesweb (so look at that for an example) < 1280971678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Borg: We're Borg. Get assimilated. Resistance sucks. < 1280971679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway: Our armoured ship will now kick your collective butt. < 1280971679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Borg: Oh, fiddlesticks. < 1280971687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: <3 you for just /thinking/ that < 1280971701 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resistance is futile (if less than 1ohm) < 1280971701 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :) < 1280971727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\loop ... \ifnum \foo < n \repeat < 1280971736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First TeX control structure I have now learned :P < 1280971755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "\advance \x by 1" Plain TeX or an intrinsic? < 1280971772 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is built-in. < 1280971786 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is easy to check: Start TeX and then enter "\show\advance" at the prompt and it will tell you. < 1280971813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: haha, someone made Voyager Virtual Season 8/9 < 1280971833 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: this is brilliant < 1280971837 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\loop is not built-in, however. < 1280971857 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, \catcode is some kind of tr applied to ... the input? do tex programs have input? < 1280971876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: \catcode is applied any more of the program that it reads itself. < 1280971884 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also affects \read and \write commands. < 1280971895 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the one with the time loop? < 1280971913 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[TNG] < 1280971913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how do you declare a variable in tex? < 1280971914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\catcode is used to tell TeX what category the characters in the program belong to. < 1280971916 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groundhog day-style time loop? < 1280971921 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yesish < 1280971928 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You can't, however, you can do a few similar things. < 1280971929 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every damn scifi needs to have one of those episodes... < 1280971946 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: of course < 1280971965 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: \newcount \newbox and so on allocate registers and assign names to them. < 1280971975 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found it < 1280971978 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cause and Effect < 1280971987 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also assign meanings to control sequences, and create macros. < 1280971989 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok, so catcode32=9 says that spaces are in "category 9"? rather than mapping spaces to tabs? < 1280971999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! Paragraph ended before \loop was complete. < 1280972000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sniff. < 1280972001 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char c(char j, char dln5, char b1, char v7) { < 1280972002 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while(!531 / 623 != 428 < 913) { < 1280972002 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yf5(802-66); < 1280972002 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : }; < 1280972002 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1280972004 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes. That is what \catcode32=9 means. < 1280972005 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1280972007 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry < 1280972036 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fiveminute.net/nextgen/fiver.php?ep=causeandeffect < 1280972039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so < 1280972042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\newcount \n < 1280972043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then later < 1280972045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\advance \n by 1? < 1280972051 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1280972062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*\loop \n \advance \n by 1 \ifnum \n < 10 \repeat < 1280972062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! Missing number, treated as zero. < 1280972062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1280972067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That creates a integer register and increments the value. < 1280972093 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You can't use \n directly, you have to either assign a value or use it as a parameter. Try entering \the\n after \loop instead of just \n by itself. < 1280972125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it start at 0 or 1/ < 1280972126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or 1? < 1280972140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It starts at zero unless you explicitly tell it otherwise. < 1280972144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...also, can I assign it with \n=1? < 1280972148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it \newcount \n=1? < 1280972156 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Assign it with \n=1 < 1280972177 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These things don't make good episode summaries < 1280972186 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you need to print a space after each number, so put \space after \the\n < 1280972211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Does it have to be \the every single time I mention n, ever? < 1280972215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in ifnum? < 1280972239 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No. < 1280972254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do I need \the, then? < 1280972285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need \the whenever it is not expecting a register, and you have to instead convert it to a string to print it. < 1280972310 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\the just converts the value of whatever register comes after it to a string < 1280972337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, my program works! < 1280972339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\newcount \n < 1280972339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\loop < 1280972339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \the\n \space < 1280972339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \advance \n by 1 < 1280972339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ifnum \n < 10 \repeat < 1280972405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Now you learned. < 1280972410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed I did. < 1280972416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a while loop rather than a do/while? < 1280972474 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, just put the condition at the top immediately after \loop instead of immediately before \repeat I think that will work too < 1280972507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are while or do/while loops more common/idiomatic? < 1280972547 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't actually know, but I think the condition at the end is more common in TeX, as far as I know. < 1280972564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop < 1280972568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the n space < 1280972571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : advance n by 1 < 1280972573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifnum n < 10 repeat < 1280972582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if you removed the \s and replaced "the" with $... < 1280972601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newcount n < 1280972601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop < 1280972601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $n space < 1280972601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : advance n by 1 < 1280972601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifnum n < 10 repeat < 1280972601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1280972605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, TeX is pretty normal. :P < 1280972687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had better sleep. < 1280972717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, TeX's programming stuff isn't as awful as I thought. < 1280972734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit poor, but... I can actually imagine using that. < 1280972738 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How awful did you think it was? < 1280972764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Along the lines of "It's TC by accident". < 1280972850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1280972857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1280972858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280972878 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It still has only 256 registers of each kind, though. And to do more advanced stuff you will have to learn some things about \expandafter and \csname and various other thing, because it does work differently, a bit. < 1280972901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Still, it appears to be not 100% revolting. < 1280972914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can see the codes for yesweb to see how a full program is written) < 1280972924 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I also think it is not 100% revolting < 1280972975 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.explosm.net/comics/2130/ Hahahahaha this comic is exactly why I read C&H < 1280972981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sub-par, but eh. 70s language being usable suffices. :P < 1280973362 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to figure out if there is some way to do something at each word boundary < 1280973383 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a good thing or a bad thing that to stop my media player, I do 'killall ogg123'? < 1280973614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If done as a normal user, quite a mundane thing. < 1280973627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overkill, but mundane. < 1280973950 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think yesweb is better or worse than noweb and Newfangle? < 1280974000 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have tested yesweb, and it does work. So don't complain that it doesn't work.) < 1280974069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, that is about it. :) < 1280974258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How strange do you consider prompt().toString() to be in JavaScript, anyways? (I have used this) < 1280974400 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What's the point of the toString() bit? < 1280974406 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't exactly a Javascript expert < 1280974425 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Yes, that is the part that seems strange < 1280974431 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280974438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does actually have a use there (even though the return value of prompt() is already a string) < 1280974440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript will coerce things to strings on its own quite often, but not always. Anyway without context I can't judge whether that's strange. < 1280974474 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes it does, but the return of prompt() is already a string anyways! < 1280974489 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: String.prototype.toString is id. < 1280974538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that that's really an answer :P < 1280974549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, it is, but there is still a reason for prompt().toString() see if you can think of it. < 1280974554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you cannot, I can answer you) < 1280974577 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280974586 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I forgot that prompt() is a builtin function, doy. < 1280974597 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280974598 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what prompt() returns if you close it without hitting OK, probably null. < 1280974607 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if that's the case, then it doesn't always return a string. Not sure though. < 1280974616 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280974722 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes you are right about that. And do you know what null.toString() does? < 1280974746 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Off the top of my head, I suspect it's one of: "", "null" or maybe "0" < 1280974769 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All wrong. < 1280974771 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohwait < 1280974773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's null X-P < 1280974777 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that throws an exception. < 1280974788 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, right. < 1280974813 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do you understand what prompt().toString() is for? Hopefully now you do. < 1280974827 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1280974873 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like a silly way to coerce an exception out of that though ... < 1280974874 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you want to blow up and die just because some moron didn't click Ok? < 1280974881 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egg-zactly. < 1280974893 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blows up and dies Gregor < 1280974935 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1280975022 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will be watching Futurama in approx 38 min < 1280975051 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you for the update. < 1280975058 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please keep us apprised of all Futurama-related news. < 1280975070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good news everybody! < 1280975100 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well played, sir. Well played. < 1280975141 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hey, that's a registered trademark! < 1280976102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Genericisation bitch. < 1280976464 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the process scheduler in Squeak/Pharo just isn't built to handle a crazy amount of threads" < 1280976469 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opposite of Erlang then? < 1280976496 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280977077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at new cell phones < 1280977229 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... I was wrong about the day of the week < 1280978001 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was about to ask if I should consider Self, but: < 1280978002 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we would be very interested in anyone prepared to make a Windows port." < 1280978880 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1280979040 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280980082 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280980309 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280980320 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1280980334 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok peeps < 1280980338 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im in florida, on comcast < 1280980343 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give some stuff to torrent < 1280980343 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280980758 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Porn. Don't even need torrent. < 1280980776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Internet *is* for it. < 1280981078 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly he is downloading porn even as we speak. < 1280981082 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A true trooper. < 1280981126 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am download linguist porn < 1280981136 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... how dull X-P < 1280981144 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And non-bandwidth-consuming. < 1280981210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's *cunning* linguist porn, at least. < 1280981210 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Gregor.OS < 1280981225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hyuk < 1280981230 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, it features noam chomsky and tanya reinhart. < 1280981262 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kratzer comes in for a lesbian scene somewhere along the way < 1280981271 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor! < 1280981273 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats your OS :| < 1280981280 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is that what that was supposed to mean. < 1280981284 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse < 1280981285 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian via sidux. < 1280981293 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you're no use to me then. < 1280981303 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1280981307 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M STILL A MAN, DAMN IT < 1280981320 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to ask if you wanted to toy around with an app me and some friends are making < 1280981328 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what kind of fun plugins for it you could make < 1280981329 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nevermind < 1280981353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... You use OS X? < 1280981355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNCLEAN < 1280981358 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280981359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very clean < 1280981360 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280981372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even my soon-to-be-had phone shall run Linux! < 1280981375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280981397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :android? < 1280981417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Android < 1280981442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Palm WebOS, actually. < 1280981451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1280981454 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail. < 1280981463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: $0.00 is not fail < 1280981685 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read good things about the UI < 1280981778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses the freaking Konami code to unlock it! < 1280981969 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's an auto-win < 1280981973 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1280982054 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap yesss < 1280982057 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :achievement unlocked 2 < 1280982478 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280982718 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280982746 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1280983981 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280984880 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280985136 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280985150 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1280985573 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280987296 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280987536 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280987566 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1280989694 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280989923 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1280989933 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1280990855 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280991274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280991401 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-13-11.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280992339 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: reboot < 1280992665 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280993070 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280993202 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280993235 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280993374 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280993463 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280993664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280993814 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280993827 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280993992 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280995199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1280995200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280996461 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280999460 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crusher: Computer, what just happened? < 1280999460 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer: The spherical universe we occupy is collapsing. Its periphery has just obliterated the forward edge of the ship's saucer section. < 1280999460 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crusher: Does that mean that Ten-Forward is now the Restaurant at the End of The Universe? < 1280999460 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer: Very well put. < 1280999956 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riker: Cry me a river. Data, Worf, go get a shuttle ready and finalize your wills. Wesley, bring me fifteen kilos of tissue paper. < 1280999956 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wesley: Why, sir? < 1280999956 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riker: In case Deanna takes me literally < 1281000021 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1281000245 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is rather upset at the Five-Minute Stargate link not working < 1281000286 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's one ep: http://www.fiveminute.net/stargate/eps/2010.htm < 1281000292 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may be more, I guess < 1281000337 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hansen: You're just such a screwup. < 1281000337 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riker: Yes, sir. < 1281000337 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hansen: Oh, and I promote you to Captain. < 1281000338 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riker: Yes, sir. < 1281000414 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, the 5min Stargate ep was boring < 1281000458 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the arrakkis line is good < 1281000502 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not referring to the movie one < 1281000506 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked that one < 1281000513 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was referring to the 2010 ep < 1281000620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1281000624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crusher: Jean-Luc? Are you in there? < 1281000624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locutus: Foolish human. Picard no longer exists. < 1281000624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crusher: Oh, fine. Can I get you a drink? < 1281000625 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locutus: Tea, Earl Grey, hot. --Dammit! < 1281000782 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281000987 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am convinced that Smalltalk would have been the best language for this project < 1281000994 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah... < 1281001086 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I awake? < 1281001099 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody knows < 1281002597 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1281003086 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281003152 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281003748 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-111.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281004061 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281004347 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281004360 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281004362 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281004530 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281004701 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281004703 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-96-197.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1281004763 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281005730 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281006032 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281006451 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281006548 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281006755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1281008046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281008860 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281011005 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1281011236 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281013225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281013244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281014019 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1281014447 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281014763 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281014916 0 :comex!~comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281015245 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-213.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281015393 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281015445 0 :mquin_!~mquin@freenode/staff/mquin JOIN :#esoteric < 1281015829 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281015869 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281015870 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1281015918 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281015951 0 :mquin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Changing server < 1281016447 0 :mquin_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :mquin < 1281016932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1281017275 0 :mquin!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281017888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, and PCRE throws errors when it hits these limits. PHP interprets these errors as successes. < 1281017904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone ever asks me what's wrong with PHP, I now have this to refer to < 1281017996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, better version of the same quote by the same person: < 1281018000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PHP doesn't handle the error PCRE sends out sanely. If PCRE hits the backtrack limit (which is by default set to 10000000 backtracks, much higher than php's alteration), then PCRE throws an error -- PCRE_ERROR_MATCHLIMIT -- which PHP should throw for the code to handle, instead of quietly succeeding. < 1281018050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`eval factor 22201 < 1281018051 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1281018058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1281018059 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1281018064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run factor 22201 < 1281018066 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22201: 149 149 < 1281018373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 22201 < 1281018374 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22201: 149 149 < 1281018441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, found fax. < 1281019066 0 :deathmoniac!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281019140 0 :deathmoniac!~turing@201-42-212-65.dsl.telesp.net.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1281020223 0 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281020257 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281020283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1281020284 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1281020624 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281020896 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281020949 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281021156 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-44-39.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281022221 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281022332 0 :songhead95!126d0127@gateway/web/freenode/ip.18.109.1.39 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281022352 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281022405 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the egobot command symbol? < 1281022415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1281022417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1281022417 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1281022420 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281022681 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281022855 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281023210 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you run on hackego < 1281023334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!Hello, world! < 1281023342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's egobot < 1281023350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego isn't really good for running languages < 1281023355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, where's egobot gone? < 1281023472 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1281023477 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1281023520 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281023944 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's run away to join the circus! < 1281024036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always knew it was flighty *sigh* < 1281024048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1281024048 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1281024056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe I just messed up my program? < 1281024060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen test < 1281024062 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, its !bf interpreter doesn't accept !input :P < 1281024068 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :61 +++++++++++++[>+>+++++++++>++++++++><<<<-]>>-.>---.<-.+.<---. [48] < 1281024093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: aha < 1281024096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always used to, didn't it? < 1281024100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that fungot? < 1281024101 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: table fnord. they who should have been otherwise. nor is there any form of popular election were supposed to be right, i am not sure as to which st. paul suggests a reference to paley on this subject. < 1281024147 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must've been fungot. < 1281024149 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: great britain had a tammany and a croker a good while before he or his family settle again to their business. their heads were stuck upon spears, and led the procession; whilst the royal captives who followed in the reign of henry viii., or fnord. < 1281024173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++++++++++[>+>+++++++++>++++++++><<<<-]>>-.>---.<-.+.<---. < 1281024173 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1281024212 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anybody have any idea what tipjar.com is, other than a web site which was founded in 1996 and clearly hasn't been updated since 1996? < 1281024514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fungot's ^bf takes !input, yes. And if you ^def foo bf bar, it will internally rewrite "^foo baz" to "^bf bar!baz". < 1281024819 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281024907 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281025068 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last night I managed to get my Eightebed compiler (written in Python) to emit C that actually compiles. Got a fair way along with the static validity analyzer too. All that's left is to finish that, write the runtime support (the most important part :/ ), and write a test suite, I guess. < 1281025167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go go Eightebed! < 1281025491 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281025623 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281025970 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E7E6A.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281026178 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1281026298 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281026361 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to read the source for Epigram (literate Haskell). I should probably stop because I don't know enough about type theory to tell when they're joking or not. < 1281027160 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281027227 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281027549 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281027720 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1281027745 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281027840 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281028031 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@70-7-197-245.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281028262 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, does anybody have any idea what tipjar.com is, other than a site that clearly hasn't changed since its founding in 1996? < 1281028295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, or I'd have answered earlier < 1281028300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I do vaguely recognise the name < 1281028326 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281028379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you saw that url? < 1281028381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1281028409 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wouldn't have seen it earlier, hence reasking X-P < 1281028429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, he filter urls < 1281028436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in his irc client < 1281029309 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: One might think that is a "yes-no" question, until one notices the universal quantification in it, making it a "yes-not me" question. < 1281029317 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: Also: Not me. < 1281029366 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, actually existential quantification I guess. < 1281029382 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for the breakdown, now gimme some Eightebed so I cab break it :P < 1281029541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, s/cab/can/ ? < 1281029579 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I'm going to drive a taxi into it. < 1281029695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281029714 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281029717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, what is "Eightebed", _no_ google hits here < 1281029731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it suggests eightcubed though < 1281029733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi < 1281029750 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Congrats, you found a totally unique name. < 1281029801 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo, Americans < 1281029806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, huh? < 1281029809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly google is _disgustingly_ bad at crawling for entirely new esolangs < 1281029811 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: Actually, alise found it. With her iPhone. But, like "Befunge", I recognized the significance of the word as a language name. < 1281029815 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Puss, despite that it is intended to be a small tool, is still in early stage." is this sentence correct ? < 1281029815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281029819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an esolang? < 1281029838 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Nope. < 1281029843 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1281029847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shocking, isn't it? what are people _doing_ in this channel? < 1281029850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, when refreshing I get one hit < 1281029867 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281029880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that one hit is: [PDF] Allegheny County Medical Society [...] Pittsburgh and the eightebed [...] < 1281029909 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: First I will attempt to formulate a "correct" version, then I will attempt to diff them."Puss, although intended to be a small tool, is still in an early stage." < 1281029922 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit wonky at the end, maybe want "of development" < 1281029929 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not a correctness issue, just a clarity issue) < 1281029935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, btw did yesterday turn out to be the best of worlds? < 1281029938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as we talked about < 1281029959 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: YES but for totally different reasons, I didn't snag coding time :P < 1281029962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt. microcosm that is... < 1281030072 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Hmmm, OK, your "despite" clause, upon further thought, is probably correct, but very awkward, as you've assigned Puss the pronoun "it" in a clause before even getting to the action verb. < 1281030093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: "despite that it is ..." sounds stilted in english, especially as an adjectival phrase < 1281030125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think "despite being ..." would be the usual phrasing, except that would give you two "being" there... < 1281030128 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: "is still in early stage" just needs to be "an early stage", unless "early stage" is actually the name of a stage, not just a description. < 1281030166 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'll just put forth that the whole sentence is kinda weird; although intended to be small, it's in an early stage of development? Are these two things related? < 1281030172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about: "Puss, although intended to be a small tool, is still even smaller than that" < 1281030173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, ^ < 1281030179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, one "being" and one "to be", which still would be awkward < 1281030182 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I approve. < 1281030191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1281030236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively it might be way too large < 1281030243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on which way you are goingf < 1281030244 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although oddly if you put the adjectival phrase first, the awkwardness with "it" diminishes: ""Despite that it is intended to be a small tool, Puss is still in [an] early stage [of development]." Perfectly fine to me. < 1281030246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going* < 1281030275 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That is an interesting observation, AND true. < 1281030289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, cpressey, if "early stage" is actually a name of a stage I would suggest using title case for it < 1281030296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it less confusing < 1281030297 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1281030302 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might use "Despite [the fact] that it is..." but that's my own preference for being wordy, I think < 1281030307 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUSS IS A SMALL TOOL < 1281030312 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Naw, I'd do that too. < 1281030326 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I might even say "In spite of the fact that it is" < 1281030338 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: :P < 1281030350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you call that wordy? Bah, nothing compared to the wordiness we had when _I_ was young. < 1281030369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had to use a shovel to dig our way through it! < 1281030383 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1281030390 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1281030392 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monty < 1281030403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty obviously so < 1281030411 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O English! What mortal couldst tame thy hirsute naughtiness? < 1281030422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, "hirsute"? < 1281030438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this spell checker accepts the word however < 1281030445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I noticed yesterday that it didn't like "movie" < 1281030448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm < 1281030467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect en_GB might be rather outdated on this system < 1281030489 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now 'round yonder we ain't gettin' y'all's Queen's English wit' yer "hirsutes" n' yer "couldsts". < 1281030513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281030547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W used CONFUSION. < 1281030551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was super effective. < 1281030560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my only comment to that line. < 1281030619 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know "hirsute" because it was on a list of "words you should study to do well on the verbal portion of the GRE", and shortly thereafter I actually heard it used, in an episode of Dr. Who. < 1281030634 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOCTOR WHO < 1281030670 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who contract the "Doctor" in "Doctor Who" are the WORST kind of people. < 1281030720 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, DOCTOR WHO. Anyway, I've noticed that happens a lot -- you learn a word, then suddenly hear it used. It's probably some kind of psychological trick, like, you heard the word before, but you didn't know what it meant, so you didn't retain the memory the same way. < 1281030730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281030731 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "hirsute"? I dunno, man. That was a weird coincidence. < 1281030798 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1281030940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look like you're wearing a hair suit, you might be hirsute. < 1281031142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you? < 1281031213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not particularly. < 1281031377 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1281031396 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281031417 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1281031729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281031817 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm going to watch an episode of doctor who right now < 1281031842 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm going to play NetHack. < 1281031866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: zapping an unknown wand at yourself is not a very good idea. < 1281031968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how many times have you ascended? < 1281031977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, none. < 1281031981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281031988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never gotten past Sokoban, actually. < 1281032066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've reached Minetown once or twice, but I've always died before getting back to the main dungeon. < 1281032103 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281032365 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281032368 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281032610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, have you ever ascended? < 1281032700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes, several times < 1281032710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, *glower* < 1281032787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I'm playing an extinctionism game. Quite close to that objective. If I have kept an accurate count almost everything except & A and D are either extinct or genocided by now < 1281032820 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you genocide D? < 1281032842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't have any such scroll handy currently < 1281032853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, extinction is more proper than genocide < 1281032878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just used genocide for buggers like mind flayers and arch liches < 1281032907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm I'm using cursed scrolls of create monster in a boulder fort to create lots of dragons < 1281033528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, D and A done I think < 1281033540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't eat kittens‽ Even ones that aren't my pet? < 1281033555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you could eat their corpses? < 1281033574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I could, but it tells me that I think eating it was a bad idea. < 1281033587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that meant a luck penalty. < 1281033735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, telepathy... < 1281033740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you still have the corpse? < 1281033748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, my kitten ate it. < 1281033767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why my kitten wasn't done for cannibalism I do not know < 1281034065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, reached Sokoban. < 1281034237 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1281034326 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@70-7-197-245.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281034611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, now my kitten has died of terminal stupidity. < 1281034895 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1281034916 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281034936 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1281034981 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fruit comprehensions? They're like list comprehensions, but for fruit." < 1281035007 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beh. Stupid kitten. < 1281035471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, well, it *walked* into a *pit*. < 1281035472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I find that the initial pet mostly gets in your way. I prefer pets from various figurines and eggs later on. I mean, a black dragon as a pet definitely beats a kitten by far. It doesn't just steal from shops, it kills the shop keeper (always leave that to strong pets, never do it yourself) < 1281035484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what class are you playing? < 1281035489 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, wiz. < 1281035491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1281035500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1281035507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seemed like a good idea < 1281035520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first, then I've never been bothered to change, < 1281035522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is a bad choice if you never ascended. I would go for val. I did my first ascension with val and also the majority of them < 1281035556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well if Fruit is a Monad, you can use do blocks for that purpose < 1281035580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you die before the quest. Because val is much stronger at low levels than wiz. wiz is only really good for the latter half of the game < 1281035582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, monad comprehensions were abolished in Haskell 98 < 1281035636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat, cone of cold goes through boulders. < 1281035640 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Perhaps it thought it was a Wumpus. < 1281035662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, perhaps. < 1281035747 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not even available as one of those optional pragma things? < 1281035751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sokoban? Be careful of the luck penalties < 1281035756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, precisely. < 1281035785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a monster behind a boulder which wouldn't move. < 1281036154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hm maybe it's been added recently - i think it was said they'd add it if someone made a patch < 1281036213 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm having a hard time seeing how "do" *isn't* a monad comprehension, actually < 1281036235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, do notation and comprehensions are equivalent < 1281036251 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281036259 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, just a syntax thing? < 1281036328 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm sick of people asking me to define fruit in terms of monads, so I refuse to comply! < 1281036370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i cannot find it in the ghc's language option list < 1281036392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two options for comprehensions, but none extends it to monads < 1281036463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both do notation and list comprehensions are syntactic sugar < 1281036563 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, while we're on the subject, there's something that's been on my mind for a while < 1281036572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1281036617 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've heard that monads in Haskell are "strict in the first argument'. Is this true? Is this a necessary quality of monads? And is this the real reason why they can be used for IO? < 1281036631 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, no. < 1281036634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's untrue, in fact it varies by monad < 1281036687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO is strict in the first argument (to >>=), but e.g. Reader is strict in the second < 1281036731 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Would it be true that a monad that has to match "the outside world" as it were, would have to be strict in at least one argument? < 1281036790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well eschewing concurrency, all haskell evaluation would generally need one of the arguments first, if any < 1281036863 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's the meaning of "strict" I'm thinking of. < 1281036901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait that's not true if you use seq, either < 1281037006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally in a >>= f it would be harmless to evaluate the _function_ f, i think, so it doesn't have to be precisely strict in the first one < 1281037021 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically trying to figure out if there is something inherent about monads that lets them define evaluation order, or whether they're just "carriers" for something else (something like seq, yeah) that defines the evaluation order. < 1281037040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, carriers < 1281037047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inherent thing about monads is that they force _data flow_, i think < 1281037066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they force data flow. They absolutely do not (in general) force evaluation order. < 1281037079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no more so than any other set of functions can. < 1281037108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(any function can effectively force evaluation order just with seq or judicious pattern matching, after all) < 1281037140 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. That helps clarify it. Thank you all. < 1281037162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq can be simulated with pattern matching whenever its left argument is of a known algebraic data type, incidentally < 1281037222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just do any match that forces actually finding the top constructor) < 1281037354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let loop = Nothing >> loop in loop :: Maybe () < 1281037360 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing < 1281037495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.Reader; loop = loop >> ask; main = print $ runReader loop "Poof!" < 1281037498 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Poof!" < 1281037755 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm not sure it's any clearer. < 1281037771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.Writer; test = tell [1] >> undefined >> tell undefined; main = print $ (head output, result) where (output, result) = runWriter test < 1281037773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, do you know how >>= and return work? < 1281037803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it's backwards < 1281037812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.Writer; test = tell [1] >> undefined >> tell undefined; main = print $ (head output, result) where (result, output) = runWriter test < 1281037815 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1,()) < 1281037849 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I thought I did several times. I can never seem to retain a coherent mental model of how they work, though. < 1281037861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the last is an example of a Monad where _part_ of the monad value is strict in the first argument to >>, and _part_ is strict in the second :) < 1281038012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t return < 1281038013 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return :: (Monad m) => a -> m a < 1281038020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t (>>=) < 1281038021 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>=) :: (Monad m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1281038064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These must satisfy the axioms that (return x) >>= f == f x, < 1281038090 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1281038110 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281038130 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1281038141 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m >>= return == m, and (m >>= f) >>= g == m >>= (\x -> (f x >>= g)) < 1281038148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if that helps. < 1281038161 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It doesn't. < 1281038209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't think so... < 1281038268 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the whole problem with the didacticism of monads. Just stating the definition of something does very little to help one understand it. < 1281038273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, return "puts" a value into a monad, >>= takes it "out" and applies it to its second argument. < 1281038435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first law is clearer with do notation. The second is hairy without Kleisli arrows. < 1281038495 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h50.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281038523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with that, we get the monad laws as: return >=> g == g, f >=> return == f, (f >=> g) >=> h == f >=> (g >=> h)) < 1281038541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, >=> :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c < 1281038548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m >=> n = \x -> do { y <- m x; n y } < 1281038565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, it's nice and clean that way. Sadly, not much help. < 1281038821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what's >=> in terms of >>= and/or return? < 1281038889 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be even cleaner (but probably still not much help) if the operators were visually distinct instead of being combinations of arrows and lines. Thank you, ASCII. < 1281038916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m >=> n = \x -> m x >>= n < 1281038930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1281038944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, are you still confused? < 1281038960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after mentally applying the de-sugaring, and then a simple reduction) < 1281038986 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but never mind. < 1281039098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Would it make you feel better to know that you don't have to understand any of this to use Haskell? < 1281039120 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not exactly, since I've written several nontrivial programs in Haskell. < 1281039129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's most relevant when you're wondering if you could make a datatype a monad. < 1281039220 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to just avoid monads and write any I/O code that I have to do in cargo cult fashion. < 1281039281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Monad_Laws Perhaps this helps? < 1281039314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't, you can conclude that monads are burritos and call it a day. < 1281039315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281039527 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone asked me about monads the other day... I tried to explain, but he lost interest after 5 minutes < 1281039713 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need an "monads in minutes" explanation :p < 1281039747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a monotone monologue on monads, measurable in minutes < 1281039805 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I did ask some rhetorical questions < 1281039853 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1281039907 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Well, I can offer this piece of advice: don't just recite the monad laws. < 1281039926 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I didn't try that < 1281039976 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281040466 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1281040470 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try < 1281040479 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: what are these monads anyway? < 1281040497 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exactly what the guy asked me < 1281040522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell [] >> undefined :: [()] < 1281040527 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] < 1281040578 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I pulled up this page: http://blog.sigfpe.com/2006/08/you-could-have-invented-monads-and.html < 1281040584 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and started working through it < 1281040618 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then he stopped paying attention and talked about other things :-( < 1281040650 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of a boring blog post < 1281040720 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I need something exciting and/or short < 1281040732 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should have asked on #haskell first < 1281040749 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I could have let them explain :p < 1281040755 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are not the only things in Haskell that I essentially can't think in. I also can't think in pointfree form. < 1281040857 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do pointfree by default o_O < 1281041012 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah -- I guess I'm just stupid. < 1281041210 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointfree form? < 1281041363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Pointfree < 1281041436 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In contrast, a lot of the time I don't even use fold -- I write the folding into my function. < 1281041456 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I tend to use recursion instead of combinators < 1281041461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, NIH to the max! < 1281041509 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call it NIH exactly, but it is the same kind of thing probably. < 1281041519 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to call it "pointless style" < 1281041529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Twas facetious. < 1281041532 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you've memorized them, the higher-order functions are rather hard to discover < 1281041650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you're not the first one to use that term :) < 1281041701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact lambdabot's command for generating it is @pl) < 1281041763 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pl \a (b,c) -> a c b =====> (`ap` snd) . (. fst) . flip < 1281041769 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love that one. < 1281041791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1281041792 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can probably write it more nicely < 1281041818 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is `ap`? < 1281041828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi says it doesn't exist. < 1281041834 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monadic version of <*> < 1281041839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in Control.Monad < 1281041855 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative too (which has <*>) < 1281041879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: uncurry . flip, i think < 1281041909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl afair is not very smart with simplifications < 1281041935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait is that curry or uncurry < 1281041950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (curry . flip) (+) (1,2) < 1281041963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (uncurry . flip) (+) (1,2) < 1281041965 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1281041977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncurry was right < 1281042044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i think many of ghc's optimization rules for lists depend on using fold/map style rather than explicit recursion < 1281042087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want it to remove intermediate lists < 1281042142 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joy. Oh well. < 1281042563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.State.Strict; main = flip runState 1 $ put 2 >> undefined >> put 3 < 1281042581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.State.Strict; main = print . flip runState 1 $ put 2 >> undefined >> put 3 < 1281042584 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input.19732.hs: Prelude.undefined < 1281042593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1281042613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the strict State monad is essentially strict in _both_ arguments < 1281042639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.State.Lazy; main = print . flip runState 1 $ put 2 >> undefined >> put 3 < 1281042641 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((),3) < 1281043035 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t undefined < 1281043036 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined :: a < 1281043044 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell undefined < 1281043046 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1281043077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a most undefined value :D < 1281043085 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that helps explain what the heck you were doing < 1281043148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definition of a strict function f is that f undefined is undefined :) < 1281043258 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about f _ = undefined? < 1281043265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's non-strict. < 1281043269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :D < 1281043379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mathematically it's indistinguishable from being strict < 1281043392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is? < 1281043434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure - how can you be sure it didn't look at its value before returning undefined? < 1281043485 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let f _ = undefined; f (putStrLn "hello") < 1281043541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally that function is the reason why haskell's seq breaks the eta conversion rule - \x -> undefined = \x -> undefined x but the latter is not undefined < 1281043581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that ; doesn't end the let block < 1281043603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh. < 1281043613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need {} brackets in that case < 1281043624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let {f _ = undefined}; f (putStrLn "hello") < 1281043641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error... < 1281043649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming EgoBot's !haskell even allows two ghci commands on a line < 1281043673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing ; with in should work < 1281043679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1281043695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let f _ = undefined in putStrLn "Hello, world!" < 1281043696 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1281043710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let f _ = undefined in f (putStrLn "Hello, world!") < 1281043711 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1281043743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's non-strict. < 1281043754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no < 1281043763 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1281043793 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1281043798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that putStrLn "Hello, world!" wouldn't have been run even if f were non-strict, unless it actually returned it < 1281043812 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281043831 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1281043842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluating an IO action does _not_ run it < 1281043868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh. What things have side-effects when evaluated, then? < 1281043883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (putStrLn "Hello, world!") `seq` "Boo!" < 1281043884 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Boo!" < 1281043897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO :) < 1281043933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's that? < 1281043946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half the point of haskell's purity is that evaluation _has_ no side effects < 1281043959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO.Unsafe < 1281043966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excepting undefined/ < 1281043980 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined is not a side-effect < 1281044036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well... it depends how you look at it, but mainly you say the result of the whole computation is undefined/bottom then < 1281044070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the addition of exceptions has messed things up a little bit < 1281044264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the theory they used is that the result of a pure computation could be either an ordinary value, or a set of possible exceptions < 1281044317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that there is no way to distinguish different exceptions from inside _pure_ code - they can only be caught in the IO monad < 1281044476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's at least one testing library for haskell which uses catching undefined exceptions to test whether functions are strict < 1281044624 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : evaluating an IO action does _not_ run it < 1281044654 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main is a little bit special. Whatever it describes, gets run < 1281044658 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... oh, never mind < 1281044658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that !haskell (putStrLn "Hello, world!") `seq` "Boo!" above proves < 1281044683 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO a is just a description of an IO action < 1281044706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "X" < 1281044710 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X < 1281044713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell System.IO.Unsafe.unsafePerformIO (putStr "Hello, world!") `seq` "Boo!" < 1281044717 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!"Boo!" < 1281044789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let f _ = undefined in f $ System.IO.Unsafe.unsagePerformIO $ putStrLn "Hello, world!" < 1281044811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*f < 1281044815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let f _ = undefined in f $ System.IO.Unsafe.unsafePerformIO $ putStrLn "Hello, world!" < 1281044816 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1281044853 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell [putStrLn "X"] < 1281044860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO is not considered to be inside haskell's ordinary semantics :) < 1281044873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ < 1281044877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rolls eyes < 1281044881 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got a parse error < 1281044889 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell print [putStrLn "X"] < 1281044904 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another parse error < 1281044934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: the parse error was because it didn't work as a ghci command, so !haskell tried it as a module, which it doesn't parse at < 1281044957 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let f _ = undefined in f (f) < 1281044958 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1281044972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get useful error messages in !haskell, you have to use the module form < 1281044992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just prepend main = or main = print $ , mostly) < 1281045003 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print [putStrLn "X"] < 1281045025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bets on a missing Show instance for IO String < 1281045034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1281045036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO () < 1281045043 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1281045066 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least that makes sense < 1281045077 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell length [putStrLn "X"] < 1281045079 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1281045087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, it's a perfectly legal list, there's just no way defined for printing it < 1281045095 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But putStrLn "X" wouldn't even have been evaluated there < 1281045119 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that ever gets "evaluated" (barring unsafePerformIO trickery) is main < 1281045137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you _can_ get an IO action evaluated without running it unless you use seq < 1281045147 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noice < 1281045193 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's interesting how a beautiful mathematical framework can look all contrived and stuff once you turn it into a programming language < 1281045199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something equivalent to seq. pattern matching won't work since IO has no constructors) < 1281045232 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell length [ (putStrLn "X") `seq` () ] < 1281045234 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1281045250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: that still isn't even evaluated < 1281045269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however replace length with head < 1281045286 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell head [ (putStrLn "X") `seq` () ] < 1281045287 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :() < 1281045289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even print < 1281045307 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1281045314 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does seq *do* with its first argument? < 1281045330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluates it to weak head normal form < 1281045336 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell print (undefined `seq` ()) < 1281045337 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1281045356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means the top constructor, for an ordinary data type < 1281045357 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do with the weak head normal form it gets? < 1281045365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :throws it away :D < 1281045382 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And evaluating an argument by definition has no side effects < 1281045402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if it involves evaluating variables, the results are cached < 1281045411 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1281045422 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah! seq is a hoax! < 1281045459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok there is _one_ case where seq matters < 1281045470 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have misspoken before < 1281045472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell undefined `seq` "Test" < 1281045473 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1281045526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: semantically seq does nothing other than check whether the first argument is undefined before returning the second < 1281045584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however this has the _practical_ consequence of evaluating the thunk for the first argument, with all usual caching results and plugging of memory leaks < 1281045608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't monads essentially dependent types? < 1281045625 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no... < 1281045638 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.K < 1281045654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :types don't depend on values in haskell, which is the definition of dependent typing < 1281045688 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows what monads are, but not much of what dependent types are < 1281045698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dependent on values rather than types. < 1281045731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, like oerjan said, they're types that depend on values. < 1281045741 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281045784 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a dependent type could be a number between 1 and 10? < 1281045786 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are dependent values. And seq is a hoax! < 1281045808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall someone noted once that ghc doesn't even guarantee evaluating a _first_ in a `seq` b < 1281045813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Yes, (Number x) => x >= 1 && x <= 10 -- is an example. < 1281045815 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I should do is write a external program that you can pipe output of TeX into, so that it can interpret the output of \showbox and other things, and then allow you to re-read the reults using \read command and so on < 1281045857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc's strictness analysis could cause it to rearrange things < 1281045859 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any languages that use dependent types? < 1281045862 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What should I call this program?) < 1281045869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Coq, Agda, Epigram < 1281045871 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, Coq, Epigram, Agda. < 1281045883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some others, but those are the big ones. < 1281045904 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq is a mathematical proof thing, right? So I'll just skip it. What are Epigram and Agda like? < 1281045922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, pseq is the one with that guarantee. < 1281045931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, mathematical proof things but slightly less so. < 1281045935 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perhaps "pipetex" will do? Or do you have a better idea?) < 1281045993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: the thing is dependent typing basically forces you to do a lot of proving anyhow afaik < 1281046055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you are basically allowing your types to be mathematical statements about the relationships of values, which must be proved to show the program is well-typed < 1281046074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is there no decent documentation for Epigram 2? < 1281046109 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There's the literate Haskell source, formatted into a PDF. It's a real hoot. < 1281046131 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's not feasable to write a game in a dependent typing language? < 1281046138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, not really. < 1281046148 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Define "game"? < 1281046155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the heck would it not be? < 1281046159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i recall from a previous comment that your last sentence there might _not_ be sarcasm? :D < 1281046174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("It's a real hoot.") < 1281046193 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think "a real hoot" has a complex and subtle meaning in my idiolect < 1281046198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, Coq, Agda and probably Epigram can't have recursive functions like in Haskell, so writing a game would be nigh-on impossible. < 1281046209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is certainly enjoyable *on some level* to read. < 1281046215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: codata codata codata < 1281046228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes, I know, but I don't know how that works. < 1281046279 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know how a facility works == there is no facility to do what that facility does? < 1281046294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, it allows you to represent processes that might go on forever, as long as finding the _next_ item always terminates < 1281046298 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Even ignoring codata and such -- I'm pretty sure you could write some games without recursive functions. < 1281046312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, probably, I suppose. < 1281046321 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tic-tac-toe is total, for example. < 1281046326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed there are many games which terminate < 1281046334 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Connect 4. < 1281046343 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more interesting than tic tac toe) < 1281046354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess is also terminating < 1281046367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, point taken < 1281046373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, too, < 1281046373 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does finding the next item have to provably always terminate? < 1281046378 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: only because there is a recursion limit :) < 1281046380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, yes. < 1281046517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well yeah and also a 3-time repetition rule < 1281046617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you can get around that with the Thue-Morse sequence and the knights. < 1281046627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: there is afaik also a trick you can do for nonterminating things - use a codata based monad of the form data Delay a = Now a | Later (Delay a) < 1281046653 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more familiar with Büchi automata than codata, but you could probably use them instead to model a process that is supposed to "never" terminate, like a web server. < 1281046668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are they really repeating _whole_ subgames? i always assumed it was just 3 repeating positions, at any time < 1281046701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: that way if a computation cannot be proved to terminate, you can just do pieces of it at a time < 1281046788 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a 50-move rule in chess, also. < 1281046797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: anyway in dependent typing they like to have the default be that things always terminate, because otherwise you get trouble with checking the _proofs_ of things < 1281046801 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although you could ignore that and other rules in some causes if you need to) < 1281046816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i assumed that was what cpressey meant by recursion limit < 1281046824 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only threefold reitition is required to make chess terminate < 1281046834 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, you're assuming that a termination checker will notice that all chess games terminate. < 1281046840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's far from certain. < 1281046846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think also only 50 moves is required as well < 1281046863 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is to say that either rule will guarantee a conclusion < 1281046886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this being dependent typing, you probably have to write the proof yourself < 1281046941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so noöne sane would write a chess game in it. < 1281046966 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funnily enough, noone sane is here < 1281046981 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sane/who wasn't a masochist/ < 1281047018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: basically iiuc if your _proof_ is itself well-typed and is known to terminate, then you don't have to check it at runtime, but this breaks down if your proof may not terminate for all values < 1281047023 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all the masochists are too busy writing stuff in C++. < 1281047028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc? < 1281047059 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i understand correctly < 1281047444 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, codata actually seems pretty neat. < 1281047468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like lazy data structures in a way < 1281047507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281047508 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very much so. < 1281047510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things still need to terminate, but only as far as you evaluate them < 1281047514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281047607 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What do you mean by "things"? < 1281047626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how does coinduction work, then? < 1281047638 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now instead of C++ you have to write things in C+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-..... < 1281047708 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1281047856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: evaluations/pure computations? < 1281047886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: um i think i'm getting close to over my head here... < 1281047918 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello sweethearts < 1281047925 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is alise not here again. :< < 1281047949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with induction you build things up by assembling a finite number of pieces < 1281047979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with coinduction you deconstruct things by taking them _apart_ to a finite level down < 1281047986 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: seems accurate < 1281048032 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is it the case that codata must be infinite? It seems like it should be (being the dual of data, which must be finite) < 1281048052 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently not? < 1281048066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i don't think so, more like data is a subset of codata < 1281048086 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1281048122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the rationals are a subset of the computable reals (i think if you use continued fraction representation, they _are_ precisely data and codata versions, respectively) < 1281048164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could easily force codata infinite by not having any base constructors... < 1281048179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Stream a = Stream a (Stream a) < 1281048189 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You just blew my mind (or would have, if I had any left.) < 1281048289 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1281048289 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone seen the ad for 'legend of aang'? < 1281048289 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it only me or is the part about them having to join their forces < 1281048289 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the intro to captain planet??? < 1281048289 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO PLANET!! < 1281048449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1281048555 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legend of Aang? Um, the series is finished < 1281048594 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@80-123-47-242.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281048606 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1281048615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>=> < 1281048653 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION glares suspiciously at Flonk_ glaring suspiciously < 1281048655 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>≡> < 1281048698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>≣> < 1281048705 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281048706 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281048709 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1281048762 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281048770 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is charmap broken now? < 1281048789 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, apparently, there's a game Legend of Aang < 1281049277 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a font on my computer named "Aegyptus" and I am unsure how to work it < 1281050275 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281051307 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1281051361 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281051553 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281051868 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281051894 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: I know W and P, but L? < 1281051940 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an impostor! < 1281052276 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281052289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281052536 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe his ferry sunk, and L stands for Lifeboat. < 1281052786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come, let's be reasonabl. < 1281052795 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bl/ble/ < 1281052809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's far more likely that his evil twin murdered him. < 1281052844 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! And his evil twin, being evil, is Left-handed! < 1281052849 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It all makes sense now! < 1281052866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course1 < 1281052921 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281053074 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281053081 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281053119 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know Gregor-W < 1281053167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, you're kidding, right? < 1281053187 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does -W mean? Windows? < 1281053187 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1281053196 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W is for Work < 1281053198 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1281053204 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P is for Phone < 1281053207 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281053208 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knew that < 1281053215 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Phone, not the Work) < 1281053224 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L is for Evil Twin Sunk the Ferry I Was On < 1281053228 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1281053238 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1281053238 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1281053238 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281053992 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1281054047 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281054077 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1281054311 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1281055376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281055500 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, what is Rock? < 1281055613 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281055933 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1281057090 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281058816 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@174-145-52-99.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281059002 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-L and [no suffix] are currently the same system, since my laptop is my primary machine right now. < 1281059019 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have ... a lot of ways to connect to IRC < 1281059211 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now in the Futurama-watching room < 1281059330 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders allowing Pharo to accept Ruby syntax < 1281060011 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281060907 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281061684 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281061886 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last week's Futurama is now on, in case anyone missed it. If you missed it, WATCH IT! < 1281062045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS CONCEPT OF LAST WEEK CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US < 1281062124 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{ I'd respond with "SURELY YOU MEAN", but I didn't misspell "Last week", afaik }} < 1281062263 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a different futurama each week? < 1281062343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; Futurama is airing again. < 1281062691 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR US AMERICANS ANYWAY < 1281062711 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You Euros'll get it in a year or three I'm sure. < 1281062779 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281062957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: Internet! Bits! Speed of electricity! < 1281063291 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ILLEGALS < 1281063306 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interweb anchor babies! < 1281064537 0 :iamcal!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281064607 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281064835 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281065072 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: ok, I'm watching it now < 1281065082 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost over < 1281065103 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the contrary, it's only just begun < 1281066106 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, torchwood is a pretty shoddy series < 1281066947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281068309 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@64.231.53.8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281068862 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281068872 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281071152 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281072770 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281072859 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1281076218 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281077187 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1281080624 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1281081599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1281081600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1281083552 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281083780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo__ is now in the Futurama-watching room <-- does it have a small shrine? < 1281083793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a big one, even < 1281085570 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281086783 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281087111 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-38-96.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281087121 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning. < 1281087427 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-189.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281088378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1281089473 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1281089494 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281089514 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1281091465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281091704 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1281093878 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281093888 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281093932 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281094964 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281095004 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281095433 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281095438 0 :lifthrasiir!wkkecUq8@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1281099174 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281100036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo! < 1281100049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover! < 1281100095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still doing whatever it was you were doing? < 1281100178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the project? < 1281100188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The Project. < 1281100204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's live, but development is on hold while I wait for a testing environment < 1281100293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it *do*? < 1281100302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a game < 1281100322 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A futuristic remake of an older game [now defunct] that was in the same environment < 1281100551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What older game? < 1281100684 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're only allowed to use alise's haskell on pro-GNOME operating systems. < 1281100694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=Mutation < 1281100695 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1281100700 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE OF THE GNOME-ADS < 1281100702 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8D < 1281100703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, alise's Haskell? < 1281100707 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1281100712 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise's implementaiton. < 1281100717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. In what? < 1281100728 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sure dont get the joke < 1281100848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets the joke, but I assume "alise's" is just unnecessary < 1281100860 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281100865 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not < 1281100871 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its definite necessary < 1281100882 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it'd be a pro-sex operating system < 1281100886 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of all the moan ads < 1281100895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's a play on "Monads", but I don't get where alise comes from. < 1281100910 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: alise has this thing < 1281100916 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jokes about "monad" and "nomad" < 1281101822 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281102654 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281102726 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E3A72.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281103376 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281103718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281104022 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281104304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Another nasty problem arises if you use a mutable object, i.e., an object < 1281104304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can change its hash value over time, as an element of a Set or as a key to < 1281104304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Dictionary. Dont do this unless you love debugging!" < 1281104314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make an esolang where that's no big deal < 1281104639 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281106888 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281107384 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281108536 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281109011 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281109111 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1281113207 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281113213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cellophane illegal < 1281113221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quod? < 1281113253 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1281113306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: et establishum < 1281113323 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281113347 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281113392 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1281113444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Malkompren' < 1281113461 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now, we're going to play a track from Cellophane Illegal's new album, "Et Establishum". It's called "Malkompren'"... enjoy. < 1281113470 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1088894081.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1281113477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281113491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: actually, those /are/ awesome band and album names ... < 1281113496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are. < 1281113512 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know! < 1281113586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This track is 7:06 long, which is the same as SIX MINUTES AND SIXTY-SIX SECONDS. And if you play it backwards, it sounds like 'Malkompren'', a song by Cellophane Illegal, a band known to be Satanists -- one of their tracks is 6 minutes and 66 seconds long. Coincidence? You decide." < 1281113692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apparently, fast images in Super Hi-Vision may cause motion sickness. < 1281113704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This source is Gizmodo via NHK, so credibility is, uh, zero. < 1281113727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd trust NHK, but not Gizmodo... < 1281113744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I suggest that this is bullshit. < 1281113744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I said NHK because of the language barrier. < 1281113753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1281113755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NHK via Gizmodo. < 1281113765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., NHK said it, Gizmodo fucked with it until it sounded hyperbolic. < 1281113831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just 4320p; *effectively* the same resolution as analog IMAX. < 1281113857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, comparing digital and analog video when both are high-quality is fairly subjective) < 1281113866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Toy Story 3 is good. < 1281113881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Pixar film. < 1281113900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes it is. < 1281113914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was Touched by the Holy Hand of His Holiness Steve. < 1281114025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I present Exhibit A? < 1281114042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1281114046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barbie: Authority should derive from the consent of the governed, not from threat of force! < 1281114062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1281114072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No, Barbie is nothing like this in it for anything other than this one line.) < 1281114226 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281114268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1281114347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1281114488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Five-Minute "Threshold"] < 1281114489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway: This event will stand with some of the most memorable in history. < 1281114489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paris: Yeah. Wilbur Wright...Neil Armstrong...Zephram Cochrane ... < 1281114489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway: I was thinking "Spock's Brain"..."Shades of Gray"..."Let He Who is Without Sin..."... < 1281114936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :D < 1281115018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the one flaw of my lovely laptop is that it is not powerful enough to decode 1080p. I think 720p slows it down a bit too. < 1281115086 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281115115 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@188-22-127-153.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281115251 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1281115260 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1281115269 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925351791.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1281115366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads "All Good Things..." from that uber-high-quality rip of TNG to review the quality. THESE KINDS OF THINGS ARE IMPORTANT! < 1281115396 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@174-145-52-99.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281115408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello Gregor-Urine. < 1281115421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mature < 1281115429 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281115478 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wow < 1281115502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If it is absolutely super-awesome, then glee. < 1281115508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BECAUSE OF THE GNOME-ADS < 1281115519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whacks augur with the saucepan ===\__/ < 1281115594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It has a downside, though. Wesley, too, will be in high-definition. < 1281115624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: As will beardless Riker. < 1281115626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1281115649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but you can avoid him more than you can avoid Wesley. < 1281115671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is ridiculous, how can two episodes be 1.6 GiB? < 1281115677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I not downloading at a greater speed? >_> < 1281115698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see how well mplayer can play partial files. < 1281115702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best thing about moving back to CO: REAL. GOD. DAMNED. INTERNET. < 1281115709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed? < 1281115709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mplayer can play partial files very well. < 1281115720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is America, so let me guess: 3 Kb/s, on a good day? < 1281115737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's sitting at about 40 megabits/sec. < 1281115746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Oh, the uploader merged "All Good Things..."'s two parts. < 1281115755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I was downloading Preemptive Strike, too. < 1281115761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in CO, god is real, but the internet is damned < 1281115767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know. < 1281115771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests < 1281115777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Whfuck you. < 1281115784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) Fuck you all I have is 8 Mb < 1281115789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) I'm moving in see you soon brb plane < 1281115829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a ... takeWhileFold? < 1281115835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., "take while sum < 3" < 1281115857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takeWhileFold (+) (< 3) lst < 1281115925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what's tested the sum or the list values < 1281115936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1281115950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and what's returned, for that matter < 1281116000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh with 0 in there too < 1281116021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously there is no single such predefined functino < 1281116026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically we see if "fold[rl] (+) 0 [] < 3" fits, else sub "take 1 lst" for [] < 1281116034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else sub "take 2 lst" < 1281116035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1281116035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1281116072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: can you give an actual _example_, your explanation is not clear < 1281116107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281116115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takeWhile tries [], take 1 lst, take 2 lst, take 3 lst, ..., lst < 1281116124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats alise -----### < 1281116126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until "condition (take N lst)" satisfies < 1281116130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_no_ explanation. < 1281116134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then returns that list < 1281116138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want an example with actual _output_ < 1281116143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: okay < 1281116174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takeWhileFoldl (+) 0 (< 10) [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10] < 1281116178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yields [1,2,3,4] < 1281116182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1281116184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because foldl (+) 0 [1,2,3,4] == 10 < 1281116224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um don't you mean [1,2,3] < 1281116242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 is not < 10, after all < 1281116251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, right < 1281116311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, what's the thing for "all but last element" again? < 1281116323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init < 1281116343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that doesn't actually help here < 1281116355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is quite a subtle function, it involves sending information back across recursions < 1281116368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to make that function actually _lazy_, then it's probably best to write it directly... < 1281116408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1281116451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmemoize < 1281116460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what do I need to get RandomGen? < 1281116465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't it use to be in prelude? < 1281116476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Random < 1281116484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1281116689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281116739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takeWhileFoldl op acc p (x:xs) | p acc = x : takeWhileFoldl op (acc `op` x) p xs; takeWhileFoldl _ _ _ _ = [] < 1281116744 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: btw, did you know that seq, much like the CAKE, is a LIE???!? < 1281116755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: In that it doesn't do deep sequencing? < 1281116758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no < 1281116770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I obtained this: < 1281116772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takeWhileFoldl :: (a -> b -> a) -> a -> (a -> Bool) -> [b] -> [b] < 1281116772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takeWhileFoldl f _ _ [] = [] < 1281116773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takeWhileFoldl f z c (x:xs) < 1281116773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | c (f z x) = x : takeWhileFoldl f (f z x) c xs < 1281116773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise = [] < 1281116810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i forgot to use acc `op` x in the test < 1281116846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first and last lines can still be combined like i did < 1281116923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, how do you show a Rational as a decimal again? < 1281116926 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: seq is a lie in two ways: (1) in the absence of either of its arguments being "undefined", it's semantically a NOP. (2) even in practice, a Haskell implementation could evaluate its arguments in a different order, e.g. if it thought it that reduction ordering was more efficient < 1281116950 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan filled me in on this LIE yesterday :) < 1281116958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also giving f z x a name may help < 1281116962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) of course < 1281116965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) of course < 1281117076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: fromRational to get a Double? >:) < 1281117116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed ... < 1281117129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> fmap fromRational (approxE 10000) < 1281117130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.723 < 1281117131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not e. < 1281117265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it seems to be approximating e-1. < 1281117266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, not. < 1281117279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell exp (-1) < 1281117281 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.36787944117144233 < 1281117300 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think I have to disagree with, or at least modify, the characterization of monads yesterday. They do *in practice* force an evaluation order, even if they do it *by* imposing an order on data flow. Maybe it's not true for some weird or trivial monads out there -- but those would be the exceptions. < 1281117319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no, actually < 1281117320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of useful monads are lazy < 1281117321 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you know lists are monads, right? < 1281117322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list, for example < 1281117325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy state < 1281117331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, lists aren't monads < 1281117332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is a monad < 1281117358 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then I still don't understand them. No surprise. < 1281117361 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't >>= defined for lists? < 1281117400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: monads force an order of _effects_. even in IO, evaluation of pure values is not always forced. < 1281117431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: >>= is defined for [] a. < 1281117435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do x <- return undefined; print "No evaluation of x here" < 1281117435 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it *is* forced, it's going to happen in the order that the monad establishes. Right? < 1281117442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: maybe you'd have more luck reading the theoretical definition < 1281117446 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No evaluation of x here" < 1281117448 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NO THANK YOU < 1281117453 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried that < 1281117473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, the theoretical definition says nothing about evaluation order. < 1281117536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it doesn't say anything about evaluation < 1281117542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Pfft. Philistine! < 1281117543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1281117549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/#/just delete the damn line/ < 1281117549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Only specific monads say anything at all about evaluation. < 1281117551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hence it says nothing about evaluation order. < 1281117593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says nothing about turnips either. < 1281117602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, exactly < 1281117602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do x <- return undefined; putStr "No evaluation of x here; "; putStr (show x); putStr " we never get to here though" < 1281117610 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No evaluation of x here; *** Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1281117617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But cpressey is not talking about turnip monads. < 1281117630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell [] >>= undefined < 1281117639 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] < 1281117649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that very odd... < 1281117679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell concatMap undefined [] < 1281117680 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] < 1281117684 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, makes sense now. < 1281117692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, [] >>= _ = [] < 1281117697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := _ = < 1281117701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the undefined function never gets any arguments passed, so never needs to be evaluated < 1281117706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not happy about appearing there. < 1281117716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rather than, y'know, [] >>= x = x `seq` [] -- or some such) < 1281117740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, got that, but I didn't know that undefined :: (b -> m a) worked. < 1281117747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can ALSA function if PulseAudio is running? < 1281117751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t undefined < 1281117756 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, yeah; undefined :: a < 1281117757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t undefined < 1281117757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., if I remove the bypass it has to PulseAudio, what will happen if I play audio to ALSA? < 1281117758 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined :: a < 1281117769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, didn't realise that applied to functions as well. Do now. < 1281117777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functions possess types. < 1281117780 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I don't understand is the use case for writing a monad which does not establish an order. What does a "lazy state" monad do, except save you from an explicit additional argument to your function? In that, using a monad is a lot like writing pointfree code (a practice with which I do not often agree.) < 1281117784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence, a includes functions. < 1281117818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It saves you from an explicit additional argument to your set of functions. < 1281117828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the entire point of the State monad. < 1281117840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riker: Hey baby, what's your sign? < 1281117843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Troi: You've known me for twelve years. Will, I know you care about me, but... well.... < 1281117843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riker: Well what? < 1281117843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Troi: It's your beard. It just isn't sufficient anymore. < 1281117843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riker: WHAT? < 1281117843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worf: In case you can't tell, Commander, I'm grinning. But it's hard to see that through my thick, thick beard. < 1281117852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Some code utilising lazy State would be hideously ugly without it. < 1281117943 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not really a compelling argument. How much of that is the 'do' sugar? < 1281117970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Not much at all. < 1281117986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you're just calling other functions that use that state and don't mutate it yourself, it helps a lot because you can completely elide it. < 1281117990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The do sugar is really, really thin. < 1281118002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you're mutating state inamongst other calls, it isolates this change, rather than making you e.g. pass state' instead of state around everywhere. < 1281118087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the only thing that's even vaguely "thick" is that pattern matches get a "_ -> fail" case added... < 1281118087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can ALSA function if PulseAudio is running? < 1281118088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i.e., if I remove the bypass it has to PulseAudio, what will happen if I play audio to ALSA? < 1281118090 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: When not using monads, when you calling some other function that doesn't use that state, you just don't include that explicit argument. < 1281118091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know? < 1281118101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Whoa, they do? I didn't realise. < 1281118105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah. < 1281118115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That DO use state, I said. < 1281118134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now answer my ALSA question :P < 1281118135 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, misread. < 1281118143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If you have mixing enabled in ALSA, *yes*. < 1281118152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(either hardware mixing or dmix) < 1281118161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is it enabled by default if I have PulseAudio in a typical crapbuntu setup? < 1281118173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ubuntu should have dmix by default, yes. < 1281118181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it's a PulseAudio stack? < 1281118185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281118196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think ALSA now just makes dmix on by default... < 1281118208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, two new questions: < 1281118217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) How do I disable ALSA's redirection? I've forgotten what file it's in. < 1281118229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) What's the best/quickest/etc. ao/vo for mplayer? < 1281118237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ao sdl seems pretty good, but what about -vo? < 1281118252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using built-in Intel sound and video cards. < 1281118255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, -ao alsa or -ao oss or -ao sdl, and -vo gl or -vo xv < 1281118283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL must necessarily be worse than ALSA/OSS, yeah, because it outputs there? < 1281118308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder with vo is default. < 1281118310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*which vo < 1281118326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably something like -vo x11 < 1281118332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or -vo xv or -vo gl < 1281118347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goeth to shower < 1281118383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR -vo gl being slow. < 1281118412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-vo xv" is good if it works. < 1281118418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware colorspace conversions and so on. < 1281118423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And scaling.) < 1281118441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for just straight playback? And could it possibly "work" without actually... working? < 1281118446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, emulating it somehow. < 1281118448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I'm tired. < 1281118481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... guess it could, but I think usually if Xv is supported, it's supported mostly on hardware. < 1281118495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it works; *should* it work, on this built-in Intel card? < 1281118506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, sure. At least most likely. < 1281118538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On NVIDIA cards, there's the (old) xvmc and (new) vdpau stuff to move even the video stream decoding, and IDCT, and other such stuff, on hardware; but I have no idea how (and if) that's supported on Intel graphics and Linux. < 1281118563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. < 1281118581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These GPUs are... not the most powerful. < 1281118662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay; how do I make ALSA reload its config? < 1281118684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I guess "xvinfo" will tell you mostly what the hardware supports, if you're curious. < 1281118703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was under the impression that all libalsa-using processes read the .asoundrc fluff on startup, and that's about it. < 1281118743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf. < 1281118746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More a server configuration file. < 1281118930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone please tell me exactly ONE reason not to remove PulseAudio and just use ALSA+dmix? < 1281118968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some idiot feels that adding a layer of abstraction for no benefit is a good idea. < 1281118984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1281119006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just shocked that so many people clamour to bundle this technology which does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR YOU, AT ALL into their distributions. < 1281119010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does PA actually /do/? < 1281119013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even X11 does more. < 1281119027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Takes audio in. Mixes it together. Sends it off to ALSA or some other device, which can already mix audio. < 1281119046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it can also do EQ and stuff on the audio. Which, you know, is totally unnecessary as everything that you'd want to EQ can already do EQ. < 1281119050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from that? < 1281119056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes up RAM and disk. < 1281119063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm... that's it. < 1281119112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, the role of PulseAudio in a typical Ubuntu user's life is akin to that of Ubuntu One's: annoying and pointless. < 1281119147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As such, I will hereby remove both. < 1281119172 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu is heavy < 1281119182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good word. < 1281119253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can also do things like networked audio, but your regular user won't have much use for that. < 1281119275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Projects for an Insane Man And/Or Woman Who Inexplicably Wishes to Make Linux Slightly Better: (1) Develop an X11-compatible, accelerated graphics server that doesn't suck. (2) Develop an independent libX11 implementation exclusively for (1) that sucks... well, less. (Optionally libxcb, too, although nothing uses that.) (3) Develop a sound system that doesn't suck. Uh, you could just use OSSv4. < 1281119277 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a convenient interface for per-process volume controlling. < 1281119295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's nice. If only it didn't make everything else suck. < 1281119313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as latency (really really really sucks for some hardware), not-having-a-bloated-piece-of-shit-running-ness, ... < 1281119315 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is there anything you don't think sucks? < 1281119325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is getting *really* tiresome. < 1281119326 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mixes my audio without causing sound quality problems like ALSA did by default (and I couldn't find a way to fix). < 1281119327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. It's just not very interesting to talk about. < 1281119343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, neither are things you think sucks. < 1281119347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sucks/suck/ < 1281119349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You don't say things when I talk about things I like. Presumably because they don't annoy you, so you don't think to say anything. < 1281119371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I speak of things that suck probably less than you think. < 1281119412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor do you complain to other people who complain things suck, e.g. pikhq and cpressey, although their complaints usually happen after I make one.) < 1281119435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I find /your/ complaints, about my complaints, annoying too. < 1281119510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I find your complaints about my complaints about your complaints annoying. < 1281119525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delightful. < 1281119574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, better. I have complaints about your complaints about my complaints about your complaints. < 1281119602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now why do I lack asoundconf(1) ... < 1281119662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By default, asoundconf's configuration file is ~/.asoundrc.asoundconf < 1281119663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and must be included in ~/.asoundrc. Open this file to make sure it is! < 1281119663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1281119775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Specify default video driver (see -vo help for a list). < 1281119776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# vo=xv,x11 < 1281119778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then. < 1281119851 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281119920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There was something I was going to say to you. I've been /wii'ing you a couple of times to see if you happened to be around. < 1281119956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is wiiing an effective way of seeing whether Deewiant is around? < 1281119958 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm usually around, I just haven't said much on freenode recently < 1281119962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does he appear in the wii? :| < 1281120051 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281120072 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a program it does not work with Windows named pipes, but it works with UNIX named pipes if it is compiled with Cygwin. < 1281120097 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, very good. < 1281120129 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know how to develop an X11-compatible, accelerated graphics server that doesn't suck. < 1281120150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, this is alise-suck, which is a nebulous concept. < 1281120203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Phantom_Hoover has some sort of automatic system whereby he automatically likes everything I dislike and automatically ignores anybody concurring with me. < 1281120236 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not saying it doesn't suck, only that I'm not entirely sure how you define suckiness. < 1281120248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then. < 1281120256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It shouldn't suck by not sucking. < 1281120280 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That doesn't help, because I still don't know how to develop accelerated graphics server, anyways. < 1281120295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, anyone know how to get the old ALSA mixer in the Ubuntu panel? < 1281120303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new-fangled one only does Pulse. < 1281120307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, you had "Work" and then "Going home" (or some-such) as away messages. < 1281120319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: On the other hand, I have no longer any clue what it was I was going to say. < 1281120344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It helps to just say it and wait, perhaps hours, for an answer < 1281120444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSA Gnome panel applet in Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic < 1281120445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1281120450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i386 < 1281120451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nay < 1281120502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. I used the Pulse volume control and my GTK reverted to Raleigh. < 1281120504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work? < 1281120512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, because I removed the applet. Uh. < 1281120514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work? < 1281120527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand now it's back apart from X-Chat. < 1281120643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does "aptitude download" apply patches? < 1281120653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, never mind. < 1281120829 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is there some straightforward way to ask C for an integer type that's the same size as a machine pointer for the architecture? (would be nice for what i'm doing, but i can also live without it) < 1281120868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intptr_t < 1281120870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 < 1281120887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's at least as big as a pointer < 1281120896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1281120900 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281120904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uintptr_t is unsigned < 1281120925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey what's the kosher way to build a debian package given its debian-patched source directory? < 1281120999 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Use sizeof() to check these things? < 1281121026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, sizeof(void*)==sizeof(int)?1:-5 < 1281121029 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that was my backup plan. < 1281121050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that intptr_t, yes, though I think it's optionallish. Of course everyone with sensible pointers (and a big enough integer type) does provide it, since it's so easy. < 1281121062 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if C89, might have to resort to that. < 1281121067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct _check_sizes { int z[sizeof(void*)==sizeof(int)?1:-5]; }; < 1281121100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compile-time asserts like that are always so awesome. < 1281121129 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will that actually be evaluated at compile time? < 1281121142 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes it will be evaluated at compile tile < 1281121146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/tile/time/ < 1281121203 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281121210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'd just use intptr_t. < 1281121213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything supports it. More or less. < 1281121225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0% [1 libart-2.0-dev 9506/75.8kB 12%] < 1281121236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was going at some three thousand bytes per second. < 1281121237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peculiar. < 1281121262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tile-based compilation < 1281121371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, my video is lagging. Or my audio. Severely. alsa/xv. mplayer. What. Why. < 1281121380 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably go with defaulting to intptr_t, but making it configurable in the code gen. < 1281121385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not an uber-high-quality file, either. < 1281121412 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And asserting that it can hold an int and a ptr in the generated source < 1281121445 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What are you making now? < 1281121445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Movie-Aspect is 1.30:1 - prescaling to correct movie aspect. --mplayer < 1281121447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1281121497 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: O - this is for Eightebed. A "safe" language without GC. because Gregor said it couldn't be done :) < 1281121515 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm oversimplifying of course) < 1281121519 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yawns. < 1281121533 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION heckles. < 1281121540 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281121567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following packages are BROKEN: < 1281121570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ubuntu-desktop < 1281121570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following NEW packages will be installed: < 1281121570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : libsdl1.2debian-alsa < 1281121570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following packages will be REMOVED: < 1281121570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio{a} < 1281121571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BROKEN! < 1281121573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am violating the Holy Creed. < 1281121580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Die, Pulseau < 1281121586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Die, PulseAudio! Die! < 1281121616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's a strong dependency, not a recommendation? < 1281121619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99.99%, yet it refuses to believe the torrent is completed. < 1281121622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :45 seconds at ... heh, this is fun. < 1281121624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1281121627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all of ubuntu-desktop is < 1281121633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu-desktop does nothing, of course < 1281121636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to be, but I thought they changed it < 1281121643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except install more useless crap ubuntu adds each upgrade < 1281121708 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a different distribution if you don't like it...... (I don't particularly like Ubuntu either) < 1281121961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, uh, not that easy. < 1281121966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easier to complain. < 1281121972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Could that rescaling be slowing down mplayer? < 1281122001 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is easier to complain probably, but one day if I get new computer, I like to write Linux distribution, too (I must have told you that before?). < 1281122080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, a few times. < 1281122262 0 :calamari!~jeffryj@32.97.110.61 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281122272 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1281122277 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What this world needs is more distributions with near-0 userbases. < 1281122284 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also HI < 1281122339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nullix, the POSIX compatible OS with _no_ users. also, no copies. < 1281122519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061122013747/memoryalpha/en/images/0/0c/KIRK_IS_A_JERK.jpg < 1281122560 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write Linux distribution because I want to do so, in order to make it improvment in the way that is in my opinion. And then maybe some other people can use or maybe not < 1281122669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian/rules:18: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk: No such file or directory < 1281122669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/gnome-get-source.mk:31: warning: overriding commands for target `get-orig-source' < 1281122670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/gnome-get-source.mk:31: warning: ignoring old commands for target `get-orig-source' < 1281122670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk'. Stop. < 1281122670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg-buildpackage: error: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2 < 1281122672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ... < 1281122675 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, can't remember whether I asked.. did you root your phone? < 1281122686 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1281122698 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, got debian working without a chroot, it was very easy, dunno what my problem was before < 1281122713 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err dpkg/apt < 1281122721 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schweet < 1281122743 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put that shtuff on the Market! 8-D < 1281122746 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Window manager shall include taskbar with clock, tiling and floating windows, background can be solid color or background picture (the background picture must be non-animated and the same size as the screen, because stretch is not available), and not much else other than many keyboard functions and mouse chording to manipulate windows and signals. (The taskbar needs only the list of windows open and the time, nothing else) < 1281122752 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that should make it easier for me to finish the egobf package, since I don't have to deal with bionic now < 1281122767 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, not going to pay $25 for that, sorry! < 1281122783 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which phone do you have? < 1281122784 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you have multiple screens, you can change the taskbar color and background color on each one < 1281122811 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: How about I pay, host the archive, and get all the credit? :P < 1281122819 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: How about I pay, host the archive, and get all the credit? :P < 1281122822 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr < 1281122823 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it < 1281122830 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Samsung Moment < 1281122840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1281122848 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool that's what a friend of mine just got too < 1281122849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't calamari just publish an .ipkg? Or whatever they are. < 1281122850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.ipk. < 1281122854 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apk < 1281122866 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly he can. < 1281122872 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could < 1281122902 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Putting it on the Market is just a convenience. < 1281122917 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.. a package that is a glorified shell script < 1281122942 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what's in your $PATH? < 1281122975 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: A distinct inability to paste into IRC ;) < 1281122977 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been running cyanogenmod so long I have lost touch with the real world < 1281122989 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, AndChat ftw < 1281123008 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndChat ftf < 1281123028 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i gotta try this out < 1281123037 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could swear I pasted in it before < 1281123084 0 :calamari-!~kidsquid@32.97.110.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281123135 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1281123231 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash-4.1# echo $PATH < 1281123250 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmm very strange < 1281123257 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. right.. slashes in irc are bad < 1281123286 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... /usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin:/system/sbin:/system/bin:/system/xbin:/system/xbin < 1281123308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, /say or just /. < 1281123328 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1281123339 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/see? < 1281123345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"//foo" sends "/foo". < 1281123350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/say /foo" sends "/foo". < 1281123351 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, thanks < 1281123351 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/foo < 1281123379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: I'm selectively installing old versions of some Debian (well, Ubuntu) packages, then installing a patched version of an old package that depends on them. < 1281123382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This includes important GNOME libraries. < 1281123386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I insane, or doubly insane? < 1281123394 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not in andchat < 1281123396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the final outcome of this insanity is ... a sound mixer. < 1281123409 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, /say? < 1281123436 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say isn't a valid command for me < 1281123446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"//" might still work, though. Unless you tried that too. < 1281123457 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's okay.. the leading dot worked < 1281123463 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading spaces didn't < 1281123471 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Neither, I've done that before, usually works. < 1281123486 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyhow.. do you have /datalocal/bin in your PATH? < 1281123493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: I'm pretty sure this is /downgrading some parts of GNOME to a lower release of GNOME/, though. < 1281123493 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/data/local/bin < 1281123495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual *libraries*. < 1281123497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm insane. < 1281123541 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: No. < 1281123543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, pidgin sounds work now. < 1281123554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not a good thing. :P < 1281123559 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be cyanogenmod then < 1281123612 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's okay.. is /data mounted rw? < 1281123670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ /foo works on some clients too. < 1281123691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But, again, probably not in that one.) < 1281123756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe is a monad, isn't it? < 1281123801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep... < 1281123902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very simple monad, too. < 1281123913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one simpler is Identity. < 1281123918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe without Nothing) < 1281123940 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that actually /for/? < 1281123948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1281123967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple failure handling. < 1281123976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Identity. < 1281123984 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I know what Maybe is for. < 1281123993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mostly* demonstrating a simple monad. < 1281124027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could also hypothetically be the bottom part of a transformer stack if for some reason you wanted a monad as the bottom that doesn't have a non-transformer version. < 1281124053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must tell cpressey... < 1281124077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine monad transformers break his brain. < 1281124090 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / < 1281124095 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / < 1281124096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what they are either... < 1281124112 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm space does work, not sure why it didn't before < 1281124115 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Yes, and you need to highlight me to get my attention :P < 1281124118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a type constructor which takes a monad and results in a monad. < 1281124145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, that makes sense. < 1281124149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, ContT is a monad transformer. ContT IO is a monad. < 1281124149 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1281124193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And StateT Cont is a time-travel monad. < 1281124212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: these are not exactly simple examples, except for demonstrating how one gets a monad out of monad transformers. :P) < 1281124214 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what sense? < 1281124238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay ... new volume control has unbelievably ugly icon. < 1281124285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: With StateT Cont, the state in the StateT is *part* of the continuation. So, every time you use a continuation, you end up using the state in that continuation. < 1281124304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In effect, you are jumping forward and backwards in the computation when you use a continuation in StateT Cont. < 1281124417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, it's StateT s (Cont y), but that's just because, y'know, monads actually have values "in" them. :P) < 1281124807 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281125048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know the unending horror that is GNOME? < 1281125167 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-108.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281125288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as in, understand? < 1281125299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just ... be able to tell me how to replace a panel's icons. < 1281125313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find the file it uses and change it? < 1281125322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The first bit is the bit I require assistance with. < 1281125372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/pixmaps or /usr/share/icons might be a place to start. < 1281125381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know /that/ much. < 1281125390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./ubuntu-mono-light/status/22/audio-volume-muted-panel.svg < 1281125391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./ubuntu-mono-light/status/22/audio-volume-muted-blocking-panel.svg < 1281125391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./ubuntu-mono-light/status/22/audio-volume-low-panel.svg < 1281125391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./ubuntu-mono-light/status/22/audio-volume-medium-panel.svg < 1281125391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./ubuntu-mono-light/status/22/audio-volume-high-panel.svg < 1281125391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./ubuntu-mono-light/status/22/audio-volume-low-zero-panel.svg < 1281125393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1281125395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the ones I need to replace. < 1281125398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to find what I need to replcae the,. < 1281125434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1281125436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are correct. < 1281125808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.State; import Control.Monad.Cont; newtype Wrap x y = Wrap (x (Wrap x y) -> y); main = print . flip runCont id . flip evalStateT 0 $ do (l, Wrap cont) <- callCC (\cont -> return ([], Wrap cont)); s <- get; put (s+1); if length l < 10 then cont (s:l, Wrap cont) else return l -- now if this works on first try... < 1281125818 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0] < 1281125821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1281125855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except - those _shouldn't_ have been changing values D: < 1281125976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1281126027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.State; import Control.Monad.Cont; newtype Wrap x y = Wrap (x (Wrap x y) -> y); main = print . flip runCont id . flip evalStateT 0 $ do (l, Wrap cont) <- lift callCC (\cont -> return ([], Wrap cont)); s <- get; put (s+1); if length l < 10 then cont (s:l, Wrap cont) else return l < 1281126078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1281126120 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you seen a chess puzzle game where you have to mate in infinity plus fifteen? < 1281126148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.State; import Control.Monad.Cont; newtype Wrap x y = Wrap (x (Wrap x y) -> y); main = print . flip runCont id . flip evalStateT 0 $ do (l, Wrap cont) <- lift $ callCC (\cont -> return ([], Wrap cont)); s <- get; put (s+1); if length l < 10 then lift $ cont (s:l, Wrap cont) else return l < 1281126150 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0] < 1281126153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1281126185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCKKK < 1281126224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: apparently the callCC method for StateT Cont is defined in such a way that it preserves the state too. if i use an explicit lifted callCC from the underlying Cont monad instead, _then_ the state time-travels. < 1281126254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: StateT stores the state /outside/ the other monad, doesn't it? < 1281126263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like StateT Parser doesn't backtrack the state < 1281126267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why Parsec needs its own state < 1281126278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should fix my computer < 1281126289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how is it broken? < 1281126323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: inexplicably, no matter how many times I replace icons, my (installed from older version of gnome) mixer applet doesn't acknowledge these new icons < 1281126332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um i didn't think Parsec _needed_ its own user state, it was just convenient to include it with the rest it has to track... < 1281126332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I cannot figure out why; perhaps it is requesting specifically .png, not .svg, but I doubt that < 1281126359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the obvious conclusion is that Ubuntu has caught the recent icon vulnerability from Windows < 1281126371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, where are you replacing the icons? < 1281126378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and _no_ state transformer can do anything "outside" the transformed monad < 1281126380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /usr/share/icons; I've tried Humanity, Humanity-Dark, ubuntu-mono-dark < 1281126381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none work < 1281126386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what vulnerability? < 1281126396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281126411 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281126420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there was a hugely exploited vulnerability that was a bug in icon processing < 1281126428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it was exploited indirectly via .pif and .lnk files < 1281126434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would Ubuntu have it? < 1281126436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft issued an out-of-band patch on Monday < 1281126439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wouldn't, I was joking < 1281126471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Still the timetravel monad. :) < 1281126491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do these things tend to happen to Windows? < 1281126521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no monad transformer < 1281126530 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is badly designed < 1281126649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've heard that constantly, but why? < 1281126718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (MonadCont m) => MonadCont (StateT s m) where callCC f = StateT $ \s -> callCC $ \c -> runStateT (f (\a -> StateT $ \s' -> c (a, s'))) s < 1281126778 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't know. Maybe because they are bad programmers and not opensource < 1281126813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is horribly designed, and they don't update their BSD libraries that often. < 1281126822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it explicitly includes the StateT state in what's passed to the "underlying" continuation from the lower monad < 1281126853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Soley to reduce the confusion caused by time travel, I'm sure. < 1281126858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1281126921 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@174-145-52-99.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281127029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you give the -vo driver options? < 1281127077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-vo driver:options:seperated:by:colons < 1281127113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, -vo drivers,seperated,by,commas,listed,in,order,of,preference < 1281127151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, libcaca plays the video at full speed just fine. < 1281127153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a solution. < 1281127160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just get used to watching videos with libcaca. < 1281127187 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281127201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Movie-Aspect is 1.30:1 - prescaling to correct movie aspect. < 1281127206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm *sure* that's what's slowing it down! < 1281127218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I disable scaling? < 1281127255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, -noaspect. < 1281127259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, still lagged. < 1281127269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, what? < 1281127276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY does Linux suck at AV so much? < 1281127302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries VLC in case mplayer is being stupid. < 1281127307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What's the full mplayer command line? < 1281127335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anything! -ao sdl, -ao alsa, -vo xv, -vo sdl, -vo xv:somethingaboutcolorkeysorsomethingthatchangednothing < 1281127350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1281127354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try -vo x11 < 1281127365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sceptical that that will be quicker, but I will try. < 1281127367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that works, your video card officially Sucks Ass. < 1281127375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel video doesn't suck that much. < 1281127388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It handles Compiz and all that jazz just fine, better than any other card on Linux due to its "open-sourceness". < 1281127406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ mplayer -ao sdl -vo x11 "7.25 All Good Things….mkv" < 1281127407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grumble... < 1281127412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait, you're running Compiz? < 1281127418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: -vo x11 is even worse. < 1281127422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiz hates video. < 1281127424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Won't the compositing /help/? < 1281127427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hateshateshates. < 1281127441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it were implemented well, perhaps. Compiz hateshateshates video. < 1281127451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched to Compiz without compositing. < 1281127467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either my perception of mouths is broken, or it still doesn't help. < 1281127471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll enable Metacity compositing? < 1281127475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to bypass the WM somehow? < 1281127489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Without compositing it shouldn't matter at all. < 1281127500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that Metacity will be drawing shit itself? < 1281127516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under X, how video is finally drawn depends largely on the X window manager in use. With properly installed drivers, and GPU hardware such as supported Intel, ATI, and nVidia chip sets, some window managers, called compositing window managers allow windows to be separately processed and then rendered (or composited). This involves all windows being rendered to separate output buffers in memory first, and later combined to form a complete graphical interfac < 1281127516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e. While in (video) memory, individual windows can be transformed separately, and accelerated video may be added at this stage using a texture filter, before the window is composited and drawn. XVideo can also be used to accelerate video playback during the drawing of windows using an OpenGL Framebuffer Object or pbuffer. < 1281127517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metacity, an X window manager uses compositing in this way. The compositing can also make use of 3D pipelines accelerations such as GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap. Among other things, this process allows many video outputs to share the same screen without interfering with each other. Other compositing window managers such as Compiz also use compositing. < 1281127554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I suggest that THIS SHIT SUCKS and what drivers might work well without X11? < 1281127560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will fbdev be fast enough? < 1281127646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Gah; can I have a test file to test A/V sync? < 1281127656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like one that starts playing audio as soon as the screen turns from black to white? < 1281127661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of one? < 1281127720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apparently you need compositing for Xv to work properly? < 1281127777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ξ Windows would so fix this. < 1281127925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Other compositing window managers such as Compiz also use compositing" thanks guys < 1281127926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the xi? < 1281127928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ... No, don't really need compositing for that. < 1281127936 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rhymes < 1281127945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's "compositing", but it's absurdly naive 2D compositing. < 1281127950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay. Now make it work. :| < 1281127953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a decade and a half old. < 1281127958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I gotta name it /some/ Greek letter! < 1281127964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fbdev is actually very fast. < 1281127968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: My CPU is 1.33 GHz but it can _definitely_ decode this video. < 1281127972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, but fbdev is still desynch'ed. < 1281127974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect audio is the problem. < 1281127978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As Linux audio SUCKS. < 1281127992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just install OSSv4 but that sucks to do on Ubuntu. < 1281127993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Desync'd? That's definitely the audio layer's fault. < 1281128006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mplayer is ridiculously good at AV sync. < 1281128009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you discussing compositing WMs? < 1281128019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And HOW ARE YOU HAVING TROUBLE WITH THIS < 1281128030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My God, man. I have never had problems with mplayer on Gentoo. < 1281128040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just works on fucking *Gentoo*! < 1281128053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, I only /just/ lobotomised Ubuntu by removing PulseAudio. < 1281128062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It came out with a higher IQ, but god knows how ALSA is configured. < 1281128063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current only problems with audio are that sometimes after logging on it doesn't work < 1281128067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does if I log out and back in again < 1281128088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, Gentoo's handling of things like audio involves using the default settings for ALSA. < 1281128096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which just works) < 1281128110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from being ALSA. < 1281128122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never had problems with it. < 1281128129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, apart from the API sucking. < 1281128133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, how about I just install OSSv4 and meditate. < 1281128143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worth a shot. < 1281128144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low latency, high quality, high sanity. < 1281128152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The /last/ time I did this I Broke Everything and installed Arch. < 1281128172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes http://insanecoding.blogspot.com/2009/05/perfect-sound-with-oss-version-4.html < 1281128226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if OSSv4 supports my card. < 1281128243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel High Definition Audio (Azalia) *BETA* < 1281128246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is reassuring. < 1281128365 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALISE < 1281128370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there actually any contexts in which one would use monady things on lists? < 1281128380 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am fairly sure i have today met the mother of my children < 1281128406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1281128418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What like? < 1281128437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: stuff < 1281128444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helpful. < 1281128460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's ... uh, it's like prolog without cut and stuff < 1281128486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has forgotten what cut does < 1281128516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: list monads feel more like multithreading than backtracking < 1281128557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do a <- [1,2,3]; b <- [4,5,6]; guard (a+b > 6) < 1281128573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, that doesn't quite work < 1281128576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do a <- [1,2,3]; b <- [4,5,6]; guard (a+b > 6); return (a,b) < 1281128651 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞ < 1281128672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does guard do? < 1281128685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably monad-fails if the condition is false < 1281128735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1281128854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad; main = print $ filterM (const [False,True]) ['a'..'e'] < 1281128857 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["","e","d","de","c","ce","cd","cde","b","be","bd","bde","bc","bce","bcd","bcde","a","ae","ad","ade","ac","ace","acd","acde","ab","abe","abd","abde","abc","abce","abcd","abcde"] < 1281128898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does filterM do? < 1281128925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it filters a list, in a monad ;D < 1281128935 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281129039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad; main = print $ filterM (\x -> [x <= 5, x >= 3]) [0..7] < 1281129057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1281129077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "Boo!" < 1281129092 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[0,1,2,3,4,5],[0,1,2,3,4,5,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5],[0,1,2,3,4,5,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5],[0,1,2,3,4,5,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5],[0,1,2,3,4,5,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5],[0,1,2,3,4,5,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5],[0,1,2,3,4,5,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5],[0,1,2,3,4,5,7],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7],[0,1,2, < 1281129101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks like it worked, just was slow < 1281129116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did EgoBot just DCC you a wall of text? < 1281129133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_maybe_. iirc there's sometimes a bug that makes the output only happen on the _next_ command. < 1281129136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no. < 1281129226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1281129245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misjudged the length of that list < 1281129245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Greek Audio: You ask for a certain number of Hzes and bits. You send raw audio data over the channel. The end. < 1281129271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad; main = print $ filterM (\x -> [x <= 3, x >= 3]) [0..4] < 1281129274 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[0,1,2,3],[0,1,2,3,4],[0,1,2,3],[0,1,2,3,4],[0,1,3],[0,1,3,4],[0,1,3],[0,1,3,4],[0,2,3],[0,2,3,4],[0,2,3],[0,2,3,4],[0,3],[0,3,4],[0,3],[0,3,4],[1,2,3],[1,2,3,4],[1,2,3],[1,2,3,4],[1,3],[1,3,4],[1,3],[1,3,4],[2,3],[2,3,4],[2,3],[2,3,4],[3],[3,4],[3],[3,4]] < 1281129405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure he understands that one himself < 1281129755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There had been a lot of very bad feeling around here about the way Tasha Yar was sent off. So we were determined to give Wesley a send-off that had real value and something that stayed with us. We finally decided that he would go to the Academy, which I think was Gene's idea [and] the most reasonable and easiest idea, which also keeps him alive for future episodes." < 1281129762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, everyone would have preferred you killed Wesley horribly. < 1281129792 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281129863 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1281129867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yar was ok < 1281130028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any notable sci-fi that has large space ships be portrayed as political countries, rather than by analogy with sea-based vessels? < 1281130040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've actually not seen it, unless i'm misremembering - which i tend to do when this tired < 1281130108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad; import Control.Monad.State; isubs l = flip evalStateT (head l) . filterM (\x -> do prev <- get; if prev > x then return False else join $ lift [return False, do put x; return True]) l; main = print $ isubs [1,3,4,2,3,5] < 1281130109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ships would have to be pretty large mind < 1281130225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1281130237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad; import Control.Monad.State; isubs l = flip evalStateT (head l) $ filterM (\x -> do prev <- get; if prev > x then return False else join $ lift [return False, do put x; return True]) l; main = print $ isubs [1,3,4,2,3,5] < 1281130240 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[],[5],[3],[3,5],[2],[2,5],[2,3],[2,3,5],[4],[4,5],[3],[3,5],[3,3],[3,3,5],[3,4],[3,4,5],[1],[1,5],[1,3],[1,3,5],[1,2],[1,2,5],[1,2,3],[1,2,3,5],[1,4],[1,4,5],[1,3],[1,3,5],[1,3,3],[1,3,3,5],[1,3,4],[1,3,4,5]] < 1281130255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281130598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Probably only sci-fi with sleeper ships. < 1281130632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When travel to port is going to take livable amounts of time, analogy with sea-based vessels kinda makes sense. < 1281130677 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the Culture, to a degree. < 1281130692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inasmuch as the Culture has individual political units. < 1281130719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah; something a little less abstract would be cool. < 1281130742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, generation ships would probably be like countries. < 1281130764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, the thing I have filed for Would Be a Good Sci-Fi Show About a Generation Space Ship has it like that. < 1281130773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I could write. < 1281130775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ah, yes. Sleeper or generation ships are going to inherently be like countries. < 1281130793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sleeper ships are more like *going to be* countries, but still. < 1281130809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember if the Algebraist had anything similar. < 1281130813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, what about long-mission ships that can still travel large distances, but with a large number of crewmembers? I guess without a defined, "short-term" mission they don't exist. < 1281130839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't see how sleeper ships would be like that. < 1281130844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They barely have any people. < 1281130849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Conscious, that is.) < 1281130861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The unconscious crews shall found a colony or some such. < 1281130872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or they'll be back in 100 years, making it more naval. < 1281130886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in hard SF generation ships would probably rarely interact. < 1281130895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1281130901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, "like" 100 years. Long time-span, but the point being that it's returning and the country may well exist in the end) < 1281130908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Politics exist even in a vacuum. Uh, or something. < 1281130919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The unconscious crews won't do anything until they're off the ship. < 1281130925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, yeah. True. < 1281130928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At which point nothing they do changes how the ship is politically structured. < 1281130929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, why would it be portrayed as a country? < 1281130954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because when you have thousands and thousands of personnel on board, you're going to have an awful lot of opinions, and probably quite a bit of crime. < 1281130966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially so on e.g. a generation starship, when people aren't specially selected -- not after the first generation, anyway. < 1281130973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*where people aren't < 1281130986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thought: why do so many sci-fi settings seem to try and have all the various settled planets under a single legal framework, regardless of speed of transit between them? < 1281130988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means that anything with generation ships counts, then. < 1281130994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at *you*, Enderverse. < 1281131002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: normally as a result of conflict < 1281131028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Asimov's Foundation series, for instance, everywhere starts under a single political system and legal framework < 1281131029 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQp5l4-sfFA < 1281131030 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1281131033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it all falls apart as the series goes on < 1281131034 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone watch < 1281131047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gah, slow-ass ships being the only means of transit, but a central government? I don't even know how that works *with* the ansible, much less without.) < 1281131063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, settlement is an extremely complex business, so it would make sense that only one organisation would be able to do it in any significant amount. < 1281131077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make sense that everyone would stay bound to that org forever < 1281131080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming superluminal movement.) < 1281131080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was /really/ scary < 1281131088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I suppose. < 1281131091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And how do you maintain political bonds when it's subliminal movement? < 1281131108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you don't. Does the Enderverse do that? < 1281131111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are you assuming liminal communication as well as subliminal movement? < 1281131115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1281131121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders < 1281131145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, superluminal movement does get invented several centuries in. < 1281131167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, it has instantaneous communication. < 1281131169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Notably, Orson Scott Card isn't a very good writer. < 1281131184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tau Zero was fairly good about the whole "governance in a closed environment" thing. < 1281131187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...also a homophobe) < 1281131195 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH there were only around 50 people on the Leonora. < 1281131200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I *like* his writing when it's not got anything to do with his religion. < 1281131215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets vomit-inducing when his religion is at all involved. < 1281131287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never read any of OSC's stuff < 1281131293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1281131304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did you read the Culture series? < 1281131309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. But I will. < 1281131314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to figure out the chronology :^) < 1281131318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had it written down, somewhere! < 1281131339 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've read Inversions and LTW in the meantime. < 1281131341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: He's a decent sci-fi author, but also a literal, honest-to-god fascist. < 1281131359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Mormon fascist. < 1281131375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, LTW is definitely after Excession, and contains spoilers, but I don't think that affects thing. < 1281131384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/thing/things/ < 1281131416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's The State of the Art that matters most to me. The main story in it was published /before/ another novel, separately, though I forget which. < 1281131487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, TSOTA is before UOW, so read them consecutively. < 1281131533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1989; TSOTA was published 1989. < 1281131553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Player of Games comes after Consider Phlebas? < 1281131558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281131589 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a long-running dispute over which you should read first. I read CP first, and it didn't do me any harm. < 1281131600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, we talked about that. < 1281131615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I want absolute chronological order; equivalently, avoiding spoilers. < 1281131629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make the commitment to read past Consider Phlebas beforehand, so it can't possibly turn me off the series. < 1281131661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are about 2 explicit spoilers I've ever encountered, excepting the outcome of the Idiran War, which hardly counts. < 1281131661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are the ones in TSOTA that are set in the culture? < 1281131666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Gift from the Culture, Descendant? < 1281131674 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TSOTA. < 1281131679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281131687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# "A Gift from the Culture" - originally published in Interzone #20, Summer 1987 with illustrations by SMS. < 1281131687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# "Descendant" - originally published in the anthology Tales from the Forbidden Planet, Roz Kaveney (ed.) 1987, Titan Books, ISBN 1-85286-004-9. < 1281131693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome, 1987, a chronological hint. < 1281131704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So those two should be read before The State of the Art. < 1281131711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGFTC is impossible to place within the internal chronology, BtW. < 1281131748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Descendant after Gift, because Descendant was published October, while Gift was "Summer". < 1281131758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should find Interzone #20's publication date. < 1281131772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, but publication order is a secondary measure. < 1281131783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider Phlebas < 1281131783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Player of Games < 1281131783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Gift from the Culture < 1281131783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Descendant < 1281131783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The State of the Art [novella] < 1281131784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of Weapons < 1281131785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm pretty sure Descendant is chronologically before Gift. < 1281131785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excession < 1281131787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inversions < 1281131789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look to Windward < 1281131791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matter < 1281131793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this about right? < 1281131795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh? < 1281131797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you said it was impossible. < 1281131802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, probably. < 1281131815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you tell? I don't mind minor spoilers; they're only short stories. < 1281131826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably aren't around the same time, because then Gift would have mentioned the Idiran War. < 1281131835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gift could be before, I suppose... < 1281131849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Gift can go whereever. < 1281131906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what's your personal hunch? < 1281131911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gift is before Idiran War? After? < 1281131916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be a start. (I am anal about this stuff.) < 1281131938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably after, since everything else is. < 1281131959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much after, then, if you consider its not mentioning the Idiran War a hint? < 1281131971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an aside -- is Descendant set before The Player of Games, then? < 1281131979 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281131999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, assuming it's set during the Idiran War, which seems pretty reasonable. < 1281132020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll be reading a short story before my first "proper" (non-Phlebas) novel. How quaint. < 1281132028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider Phlebas < 1281132029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Descendant < 1281132029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Player of Games < 1281132029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The State of the Art [novella] < 1281132029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of Weapons < 1281132029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excession < 1281132031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inversions < 1281132033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look to Windward < 1281132035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matter < 1281132037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert Gift somewhere, anywhere. < 1281132039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But only in the right place!) < 1281132061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go by publication date if you really need to make a meaningful decision. < 1281132077 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the entirety of TSOTA after CP and UOW. < 1281132090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't find POG for ages. < 1281132119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does TPOG mention the War much? < 1281132122 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1281132138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1281132142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to imply that Gift unusually for something near the War doesn't, so perhaps I can figure it out by measuring how "fresh" the War is in the books. < 1281132144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn. < 1281132149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1281132155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mentions the outcome, but that's pretty obvious. < 1281132169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Now for the ultimate anality: < 1281132180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which publications are best! < 1281132183 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And CP doesn't even deal with the end of the war outside the appendix. < 1281132278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large preference for hardback. Antipreference for large hardback. < 1281132282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that you'll know. At all. < 1281132365 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281132379 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what are you even planning to use to get them? < 1281132435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ... internet? < 1281132473 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I only have paperbacks of the weird abstract cover variety. < 1281132574 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, things that operate *on* monads are a lot easier for me to comprehend than monads *themselves*. < 1281132585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It, Robot: 1" is so badly-written. :( < 1281132593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it wasn't for the rest of the Ed stories, it would be unforgivable. < 1281132603 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, do you understand Maybe? < 1281132605 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281132611 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1281132642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hah. < 1281132661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Okay, you might gain comprehension using Identity or Maybe. < 1281132683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identity: (Identity x) >>= f = f x; return x = Identity x < 1281132714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe: Nothing >>= _ = Nothing < 1281132724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just x) >>= f = f x < 1281132737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return x = Just x < 1281132740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, do you know what TeX value I need to tweak to tell it not to create widows or orphans or whatever this one is (paragraphs with their last line on their own page)? < 1281132846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underfull \vbox (badness 10000) has occurred while \output is active [3] < 1281132847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1281132871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't. < 1281132887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn. < 1281132901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, do you know of any simple script I can tweak that will just match "..." dammit and replace them with ``...''? < 1281132909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I could write one myself, but I forget the rules to determine start/end. < 1281132910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, does that help? < 1281132995 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you gotta do the cooking by the book! < 1281133024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non sequitur culinaris < 1281133039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, but I'd love one. < 1281133077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, it's basically word-boundary (start of line or space)" -> ``, non-word-boundary -> ''. < 1281133087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is a bitch to do via a regexp. Here, I volunteer you go and write one, and I'll. < 1281133107 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281133158 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're creepin' me out. < 1281133169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1281133193 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281133203 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf alise < 1281133220 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello [^:word:] < 1281133227 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello [^\W] ?? < 1281133236 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even [^\w] ?? < 1281133266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^| )"=\1``|"='' < 1281133271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go Cyclexa < 1281133316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's not massively hard via /two/ regexps, incidentally < 1281133331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps not, but Perl et al seem to have a fucked up definition of word boundaries that make it always break. < 1281133333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use one to replace " with `` where necessary, the other to replace the remaining " with '' < 1281133340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be glad to see your regexp. < 1281133372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since, in most Smalltalk environments, the execution stack is a first-class citizen, coroutines can be implemented without additional library or VM support. < 1281133373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1281133385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/(?:^| )\K"/``/g; s/"/''/g; < 1281133388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1281133390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks Wikipedia, for telling me it can be done, but not giving me the slightest clue how < 1281133422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does that work with #!perl -p, I wonder? < 1281133439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. I think. < 1281133490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So "s/(?:^| )\K-\K(?:$| )/--/g;" for a - on its own, or what? < 1281133503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\K twice makes no sense < 1281133515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "don't substitute anything before this point in a s/// expression" < 1281133525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281133553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/(^| )-( |$)/$1--$2/g; < 1281133554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1281133577 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281133601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1281133637 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You seem overly concerned about whether I "understand monads" or not. < 1281133649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it's part of the Plan. < 1281133664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're more susceptible to the Device if you understand monad. < 1281133671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ad/ads/ < 1281133943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that there's another Culture book coming out in October. < 1281134051 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gotta read more of those < 1281134054 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the ones i did read < 1281134061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1281134062 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281134062 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |\ < 1281134063 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: the names of the ships :D < 1281134072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, indeed. < 1281134088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which ones, then? < 1281134127 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember :) < 1281134132 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whichever ones were at the used book store < 1281134191 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider phlebas, i think < 1281134193 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another one < 1281134195 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, any ship names you can remember? < 1281134211 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe i have inversions but i haven't read it yet < 1281134224 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, honestly i don't remember all that much about either of them < 1281134231 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a shitty memory that way < 1281134263 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could list them when i get home if you are particularly interested or something :P < 1281134300 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_o_ < 1281134300 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281134300 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |\ < 1281134311 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o\ /o/ \o\ < 1281134311 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |   |   < 1281134311 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/<  /'\  < 1281134314 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1281134316 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot about that < 1281134357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/o/ < 1281134388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/o/o/ < 1281134395 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's odd, it should have detected one of those at least i'd think < 1281134403 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe flood protection or something < 1281134413 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/o/ < 1281134416 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1281134417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is sure he recalled some bug involving something like that < 1281134427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o\\ < 1281134427 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281134427 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         >\ < 1281134435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1281134438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe < 1281134438 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be some regex failure on my part < 1281134446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o\\o\ < 1281134446 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |  | < 1281134446 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/| /< < 1281134449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o// < 1281134449 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281134449 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /\ < 1281134450 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so though < 1281134452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1281134452 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281134452 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /| < 1281134457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/o < 1281134458 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the regex for that one is pretty simple < 1281134468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1281134472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_o_o_o_ < 1281134473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/a < 1281134479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : _o_o_o_ < 1281134479 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1281134481 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what it is < 1281134494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ignores if there's a non /\_ character after the arm. < 1281134496 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i modified the regex to help avoid things like urls with _o_ in them < 1281134497 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                          | < 1281134497 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                         /< < 1281134508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1281134510 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has a \w check now < 1281134517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that may have been after the bug < 1281134530 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, it was a pretty recent change < 1281134533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU RUINED THE BUG < 1281134536 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1281134557 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, i took the \w check out < 1281134561 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/o/ < 1281134561 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281134561 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281134568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_o_o_o_ < 1281134568 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |  | < 1281134568 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : >\/| < 1281134572 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of guys stepping on landmines these days < 1281134575 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha that's awesome < 1281134592 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually not a bug though: `\(o_O)/' < 1281134594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thar's the bug < 1281134595 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281134597 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually not a bug though: `\(o_o)/' < 1281134602 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failure, maybe it is a bug < 1281134618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o < 1281134624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o_o < 1281134624 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1281134624 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/< < 1281134635 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am so confused right now < 1281134640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dance of the mutants < 1281134654 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and honestly, i do not want to debug this: /((?]|([.o])_?(?!\2)[.o]|ಠ‿ರೃ)/gS < 1281134654 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                                                                                                                           ¯|¯⌠ < 1281134654 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                                                                                                                           /| | < 1281134668 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rewrite it for that matter < 1281134674 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1281134674 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1281134674 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /< < 1281134689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o_o o_o_o o_o_o < 1281134692 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1281134695 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1281134695 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1281134696 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  >\ < 1281134707 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the o_o thing is for the funky faces < 1281134708 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/o/o/o/o/o/o/ < 1281134708 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |   |   |   | < 1281134708 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |\  |\ /\ /| < 1281134718 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(._) < 1281134719 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1281134719 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |\ < 1281134733 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could swear it should pick up (o_o) < 1281134735 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't < 1281134740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(O_o) < 1281134760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(._o) < 1281134760 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1281134760 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  >\ < 1281134765 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a failure of the first regex < 1281134768 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(o) < 1281134775 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if they differ somehow < 1281134776 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_o_ < 1281134776 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1281134776 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  >\ < 1281134781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/o/o/o/o/o/o/ < 1281134781 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |   |   |   | < 1281134781 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /'\ /`\ /|   |\ < 1281134786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1281134787 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281134787 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         >\ < 1281134787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1281134787 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281134787 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /< < 1281134791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the perl to slurp all of stdin? < 1281134796 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281134797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "stdin + arguments", that thing < 1281134797 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do < 1281134803 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't be the same character < 1281134808 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1281134809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: undef $/; < 1281134810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just all of stdin in one string < 1281134815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means that Perl won't consider anything a line separator < 1281134816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nononono, the way that doesn't hurt babies < 1281134828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{local $/; $stdin=<>;} < 1281134831 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug should be fixed < 1281134833 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_o_o_ < 1281134841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, as long as you let no babies between the braces, you should be fine < 1281134858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}dots{}' < 1281134858 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A monad is a pair of higher-order functions which encapsulate the pattern of passing extra parameters between the functions to which they are applied. < 1281134858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1281134861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE. < 1281134862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i used something like $_ = join <>, '' somewhere < 1281134869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.../\ldots{}/g; < 1281134870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops. < 1281134874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want it more readable, ... join it like that. < 1281134874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that removes all newlines < 1281134879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show slashes < 1281134879 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl (sending via DCC) < 1281134885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$_ = join <>, $/; < 1281134891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would add whatever the newline char at the time was < 1281134898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and as a bonus, $/ is shorter than "\n") < 1281134903 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show slashes < 1281134903 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl (sending via DCC) < 1281134909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$_ = join '', <>; it was < 1281134921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yo, ais523, your regexp is crampin' my style < 1281134923 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew I'd eventually understand it. < 1281134927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/

/\n\n/g; < 1281134927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/<\/p>//g; < 1281134928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that most definitely doesn't remove the newlines < 1281134930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show pi < 1281134931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes it replace all quotes with `` < 1281134931 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh read p; if [ "x$p" = "x" ]; then p=5; fi; echo "scale=$p; a(1)*4;" | BC_LINE_LENGTH=490 bc -l | tr -d '\\' < 1281134934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I put it before your regexp, man < 1281134946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up wit dat, duude. < 1281134959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, obviously < 1281134959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, does $/ break ^ in regexp? :D < 1281134962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ matches the start of a line < 1281134967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously why? < 1281134968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1281134971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the start of a string < 1281134977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add the /m flag at the end of the regex < 1281134979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll match newlines < 1281134983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like "abc" at the start of

-lines that become "-starting-lines, the " gets replaced with `` < 1281135007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it works now. < 1281135105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know any nice typewriter-y fonts? Not necessarily monospaced, just the kind of thing that /looks/ typewritery/terminaly. < 1281135105 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, feel free to tell me I'm still wrong. < 1281135113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To set the monospaced portion of http://qntm.org/dropout. < 1281135151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Something actually typewriter-like? Might I recommend Courier New? < 1281135163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you're right pretty much < 1281135177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's monospaced, though; I don't particularly require monospcaed. < 1281135179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*monospaced < 1281135189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it's like passing the parameters by reference more than by value < 1281135196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides ... Courier is nicer than Courier New. < 1281135197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah, but it's actually typewriter-imitation. < 1281135204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, Courier. < 1281135224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay; now tell me of a nice pdfTeX version. :P < 1281135267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally... Is there a nice LaTeX command to set those little "break in text" flourishes used to mark mini-sections (often three stars like ***)? < 1281135273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: \usepackage{courier} < 1281135273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically with the space before and after. < 1281135275 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Eeer umm... kinda but also no. < 1281135289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: also a good description < 1281135346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Courier's apparently not merely typewriter-imitation. < 1281135358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the actual typeface that was used in most typewriters from the 50s on. < 1281135386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were multiples, IIRC < 1281135390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Courier, Elite, Orator < 1281135394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think Courier was the most common < 1281135411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Courier was the most common due to being free to use. < 1281135496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay; now how do I use courier with the verbatim environment? < 1281135512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it automatically do that? < 1281135522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The font that is actually provided is URW Nimbus Mono (A Courier clone)." Oh, great... < 1281135547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh. < 1281135582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Terminal-y font? Maybe fixedsys? < 1281135608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, Courier is great for this. < 1281135620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any command in LaTeX for... "vskip one blank line"? Like, including line height and such? < 1281135631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. Guess it'll just be a pain getting Courier installed right, then. < 1281135668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I'll just use the imitation for now. < 1281135684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not /awful/ or anything; it's not like monospaced fonts are paragons of typographic excellence, anyway. < 1281135688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This extra space, especially when co-occurring at a page break, may contain an asterisk, three asterisks, a special stylistic dingbat, or a special symbol known as an asterism." < 1281135723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love me some asterisms < 1281135726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*asterisms. < 1281135726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterism_(typography) contains actual latex code < 1281135733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\newcommand{\asterism}{\smash{% < 1281135733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \raisebox{-.5ex}{% < 1281135733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \setlength{\tabcolsep}{-.5pt}% < 1281135733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \begin{tabular}{@{}cc@{}}% < 1281135733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \multicolumn2c*\\[-2ex]*&*% < 1281135733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \end{tabular}}}} < 1281135735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1281135744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still need that skip-one-line thing. < 1281135770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that that \asterism won't center properly. < 1281135787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\vspace{...some length...}, i presume < 1281135800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\vskip works < 1281135806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd like it to figure out the length for me < 1281135855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is presumably some length designation for that particular length < 1281135894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1281135905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean. < 1281135924 0 :Starmage!~Guest820@200.144.24.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281135937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Starmage < 1281135939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latex has many length designations, like em for the width of an m < 1281135943 0 :Starmage!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellow < 1281135999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2010-January/015564.html is relevant to the centering < 1281136062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2010-January/015565.html says to delete the \smash < 1281136091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\centerline works < 1281136094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1281136114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about em, that's a standard typographical unit. < 1281136123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not believe there is one for "vertical space of one line, including spacing"... < 1281136259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Communication Fail :( < 1281136336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks of a name for the break, since \break is taken < 1281136388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.public.asu.edu/~rjansen/latexdoc/ltx-86.html < 1281136427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\baselineskip < 1281136429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\baselineskip + \parskip or something like it < 1281136430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1281136473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, i'm not so sure < 1281136476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just line spacing + par spacing < 1281136479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the actual length of the line < 1281136482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think \textheight would do that < 1281136511 0 :Starmage!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281136528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, and those /set/, silly < 1281136534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1281136612 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281136691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, I'm terribly confused < 1281136724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1281136894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it working, thanks :P < 1281136903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1281136939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/O/ < 1281137002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sam Hughes could do with a typography lesson. < 1281137010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, Ed stories-era Sam Hughes could. < 1281137022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Fine Structure actually has proper quotes and e[nm] dashes. < 1281137138 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281137149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...which would cause the universe as we know it to cease to exist, with potentially devastating consequences." --Ed < 1281137173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :potentially. < 1281137231 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1281137251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why Be Here Now lists the total number of chapters in its chapter titles < 1281137252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1281137256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, Ed is that kind of guy. < 1281137270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's Ed? < 1281137435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/ed < 1281137444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, you could wait for my super-duper nicely-typesetted one. < 1281137451 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that one of Gaiman's short stories has been made into an obscene number of films < 1281137463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which? < 1281137474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We Can Get Them For You Wholesale. < 1281137490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Searching for it on Youtube is ridiculous. < 1281137496 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281137553 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that story is awesome < 1281137561 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know there was a film for it < 1281137569 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or (m)any of his others < 1281137569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281137575 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did see the bbc(?) neverwhere production < 1281137590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, there are a mad number of student films of that one. < 1281137590 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that one novel.. hell, i can't think of the name of it at the moment < 1281137594 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna say star something or other < 1281137601 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stardust? < 1281137604 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1281137613 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've become rather a fan of gaiman haha < 1281137617 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my collection should be about complete < 1281137624 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the kids books ;) < 1281137640 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still need some of the Sandman specials though < 1281137655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *still* can't find Season of Mist. < 1281137658 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smoke and Mirrors is one of my favorite publications though < 1281137668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been looking for *months*. < 1281137672 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just so MANY good stories in there < 1281137686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has read Season of Mist *MWAHAHAHA* < 1281137693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, DIE. < 1281137699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or send me your copy. < 1281137709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say i had a _copy_ :D < 1281137715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AA < 1281137716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read it at the library < 1281137722 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually oerjan has the original < 1281137722 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qwork=10919118&matches=15&keyword=season+of+mists&cm_sp=works*listing*title < 1281137724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ahhhh, and now I get it," says Ed-B. Now I see why you came back and left everyone behind in your old universe." < 1281137729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed an opening quote, Sam. < 1281137739 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a number of copies starting at around $12 < 1281137743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where they presumably still has one (or two, probably at least one in norwegian and one in english) < 1281137752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have < 1281137759 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Sandman copies are that newer two-tone color cover < 1281137762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, steal it and drop it off at the top of the Scott Monument at noon on Wednesday. < 1281137763 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the other covers better < 1281137772 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i couldn't beat the price and getting to buy them all at once < 1281137793 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kinda wanna buy the covers i liked and sell the other ones or something, but that'd be a pain < 1281137797 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not really all that picky about covers < 1281137836 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, gonna have to look up that youtube stuff, sounds fun < 1281137864 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do I have a horizontal scrollbar on this chat window? < 1281137879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, FASCISM < 1281137881 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask your irc client < 1281137882 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see nothing that failed to wrap < 1281137889 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you visited the link, yes? < 1281137901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I couldn't get audio. < 1281137909 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am confused < 1281137921 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a link that requires audio < 1281137922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean me, individually. < 1281137937 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is however a link where you can purchase what you were looking for < 1281137937 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1281137950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what about myndzi's last link? < 1281137960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought you were talking about something else. < 1281137973 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1281137975 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it wrapped < 1281138010 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you scroll down there are some new copies for like $15 < 1281138018 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, one < 1281138024 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION buys it and goes NYAHAHAHA < 1281138025 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1281138047 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er, i'm not terribly interested in the book itself, if that's what you meant < 1281138058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, UK. < 1281138061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no it was just a guess < 1281138073 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so? i'm sure you can find someone who will ship there < 1281138078 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you know the plan? < 1281138095 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you like me to proxy buy one for you? < 1281138100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it involves a man and a canal in panama < 1281138133 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a man, a can, a pan < 1281138165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a man nap? < 1281138182 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a nan map? < 1281138235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madam, can adam plan a canal? < 1281138267 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adam, can madam do anal? < 1281138268 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1281138286 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i am about to leave; you can drop me a query if you decide you want to take me up on the offer < 1281138294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, NEVER < 1281138294 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'll see it later < 1281138298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1281138303 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1281138310 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN YOU! < 1281138314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1281138316 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesnt work /o/ < 1281138322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|o/ < 1281138328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_o_ < 1281138329 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281138329 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |\ < 1281138331 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i maek mastake /o/ < 1281138331 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                | < 1281138331 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               /`\ < 1281138334 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fix < 1281138412 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eep < 1281138427 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281138441 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281138444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1281138450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1281138450 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281138450 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         >\ < 1281138462 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: im glad you liked my joke :D < 1281138468 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this what you were hunting for? a man, a plan, a canal: panama < 1281138476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone read Ed stories? I know pikhq and Sgeo have. < 1281138495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: hunting? we were already dismembering the body < 1281138499 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ _o_ |o| \o\ < 1281138499 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |   |   |   | < 1281138499 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |\ /|   >\ /| < 1281138502 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't see it < 1281138511 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I lost a line < 1281138543 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ram a lack ok, calamari! < 1281138582 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1281138641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :armadillo, rama lama ding dong < 1281138752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281138801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``I wanna go to Andromeda,'' says Ed, rotating the ship to point < 1281138801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :towards an extraordinarily distant blob of light. < 1281138802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``We can't go to Andromeda,'' I remind him sternly. < 1281138804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lulz, lampshading. < 1281138822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION read the Ed stories earlier this year and alise is probably to blame for it < 1281138831 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1281138838 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1281138944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I told you to read them. So, yeah. < 1281138957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Either you didn't like them, or you just wanted to make me feel bad. :P < 1281138960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrt "blame") < 1281138998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false dichomoty! < 1281139002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tomy < 1281139079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what's the true option? :P < 1281139104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, do you know the variable to adjust to stop -- from appearing at the start of a line? < 1281139106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ugly. < 1281139125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a way to make it disable ligatures when stretching text would be nice. Ha ha, only kidding, I've read the microtype docs, TeX sucks enough that that's impossible. < 1281139131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought they were all right, and was joking < 1281139321 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, best I can come up with: eyes TAC at a cats eye < 1281139469 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thick catseye stack chit ? < 1281139510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eye stack late talk cats eye < 1281139539 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281139807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have typeset the Ed stories up to the end of Spacéd; the typography is not perfect, but pretty damn good, and I'd appreciate any comments. pikhq, Sgeo? < 1281139811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give you a PDF if you want. < 1281139824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Email? < 1281139834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is going to start tutoring soon < 1281139838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, a few min < 1281139857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, a few seconds actually < 1281139884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me guess; you're teaching C# to somebody online. < 1281139898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without, of course, considering whether knowing something is truly equal to being able to teach it ... < 1281140062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he's mostly reading a book (not one that I suggested, one that he chose) and I can answer any questions, etc. etc. < 1281140076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, technical difficulties right now :/ < 1281140104 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281140128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few things are lost when converting the Ed stories to dead tree format... < 1281140133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the lovely little links back everywhere. < 1281140175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts envisioning some system of threads embedded in books for linking < 1281140366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any chance of an ePub version? < 1281140416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why bother? I am doing this for the typography. < 1281140434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about ereaders that don't respect typography, i.e. all of them, apart from the ones with a PDF reader. < 1281140455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When this is done, if I get permission from Sam I'll publish it on Lulu in the highest-quality hardback they offer. < 1281140470 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly we need to tunnel TeX-over-IRC < 1281140538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is so easy; my converter basically lets me paste the HTML in and it spits out LaTeX. < 1281140550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add chapter titles, wrap lines for my convenience, replace breaks with \pbreak, remove links... that's about it. < 1281140554 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1281140559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is there any difference between \emph{c} and $c$? < 1281140597 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1281140819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aargh, Sam Hughes uses ONE em-dash in a chapter where every other dash is ens -- not even ens, just "-". < 1281140830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I meant to RESPECT that crazy, CRAZY wish? < 1281140855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I will interpret it as meaning that all breaks in conversation, in quotes, should be em-dashes. < 1281141239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Sam once rant about Lulu? < 1281141470 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1281141783 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281142045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Perhaps. I don't know. < 1281142106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=lulu&sitesearch=qntm.org < 1281142108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1281142122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ed stories" is a surprisingly long book. < 1281142148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to the end of the first chapter of The End Of The Game, it's 107 pages. < 1281142454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://qntm.org/faq < 1281142468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't reference Lulu by name, just as "self-publishing" < 1281142489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, major FS spoilers near that question < 1281142544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://pastie.org/private/chm2vxv8ylymbkzvu4qebq wthout the spoilers. You're just going to have to believe me that that's what it says < 1281142822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you still there, or did I traumatize you? < 1281142835 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1281142970 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281143073 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1281143099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, it's a pretty fucking stupid remark. < 1281143106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lulu isn't "self-publishing", it's self-printing. < 1281143120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1281143124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that answer is very assholish for Sam. < 1281143124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference >.> < 1281143149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Self-publishing is like PublishAmerica. Self-printing is just: you give them the PDF, the near-bitmap (well, vector) of what you fucking want on the page, and they supply the hardback. < 1281143158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gutenberg over TCP/IP. There's nothing disrespectful about that. < 1281143162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing loser-y. < 1281143176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deja Vu < 1281143178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Severe Deja Vu < 1281143210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1281143236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding the Gutenberg comment, watching someone play the game, and tutoring this person < 1281143241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I've done exactly this before < 1281143275 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1281143313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. You haven't. < 1281143327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intellectually, I know that < 1281143546 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281143717 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h175.23.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281143884 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1281143887 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR < 1281143952 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Onomatopoeia Reduction < 1281143961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1281143964 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SKBKNFZB < 1281143987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sexy Klingons Bonking Knaves Nightly, Fucking Zaphod's Beetles. < 1281144015 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1281144026 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: interesting analysis. < 1281144096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Smalltalk > CSharp) ifFalse: [ Transcript show: 'Liar!' ] < 1281144140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Wanna take on a menial job for me? You'll get recognition in the colophon, which is what you like to be paid in, right? :P < 1281144147 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281144155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colophon? < 1281144201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The little bit in small, centred text at the start of a book that tells you what typeface it uses and the copyright notes and everything. < 1281144207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1281144214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on what the menial job is < 1281144219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd put you on the Thanks page, except I don't think I should put my thanks on other people's novels. < 1281144221 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk ifTooMuchExpressionification [exit] < 1281144250 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+: < 1281144251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, you forgot a : < 1281144255 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281144262 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281144270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad blocks can't be messages, afaik < 1281144272 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much expressionification is fine in a language, but it better be terse. < 1281144274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Read my beautifully-typeset (but-not-quite-perfectly!) production of the Ed stories, and tell me every time you see a short dash - like -, not -- - in "something a character is saying, as if their speech was broken off-". The exact quote would be nice, but chapter is fine too. < 1281144288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will be no long -- dashes until the later paragraphs, which should make it a whole lot easier. < 1281144302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a bonus, you get to gawp over my wonderful typesetting. :P < 1281144315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: It's 130 pages. < 1281144315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it easy to just search for -? < 1281144324 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should name Humanistic Conceit < 1281144338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: wat < 1281144341 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the typeface, I assume) < 1281144347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Except that outside "speech", it /should/ be -. < 1281144361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so this will be incredibly easy < 1281144370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just need to use my humanness < 1281144398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I'm actually doing it manually. < 1281144405 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I was suggesting a name for any conceited typefaces you might make. < 1281144405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, I'll find you another menial task you can do for recognition! < 1281144411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Ah. < 1281144425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conceited typeface? < 1281144428 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though fungot tends to be better at this sort of thing. < 1281144429 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: moral heroism, on the contrary, have omitted no pains to instruct them, blame them for giving ear to the demagogue who took pains to delude them? we must have nomination at gatton because we have launched our ship with a reconciled spirit, and have maintained that the resistance of power, and of the surrounding region. the security, which it is impossible not to observe, that the speaker must infallibly come back t < 1281144657 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281144671 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel as though I am perhaps insane. < 1281144771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So, want to take a look at the draft version? < 1281144804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's all the alien spider goblins' fault! < 1281144808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I.. guess < 1281144835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: GOOD! MWAHAHAHA SLAVE http://filebin.ca/fxgocj/ed.pdf < 1281144859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I included "Free, Standing" as an epilogue. It works well. < 1281144935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything works well when you have balls the size of planets. < 1281145010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't there a table of contents? < 1281145034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because novels shouldn't have tables of contents. < 1281145039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hyuk hyuk hyuk < 1281145064 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....since when did #esoteric become #typography < 1281145069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three minutes ago. < 1281145083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it was inevitable, really. < 1281145120 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm. I guess? I have absolutely no interest in typography. < 1281145161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have said. < 1281146268 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1281146416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1281146473 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h35.30.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281147523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: any comments on ed.pdf? < 1281147555 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so special about typesetting? < 1281147560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It all just looks like text < 1281147573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to ask some questions ... but never mind. < 1281147585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What were those questions? < 1281147605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure the page-big part headings are such a good idea; I think Be Here Now, for instance, should be lead into naturally, not announced. But then I can't see how to make that consistent with the other parts, which aren't named in their chapter titles. < 1281147614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you're not even seeing the point of typesetting, erm, never mind. < 1281147647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes text look pretty, I guess? < 1281147679 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you got it. < 1281147691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, he hasn't. < 1281147789 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, barring any sort of pretension < 1281147799 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea of typography is to make visually appealing type. < 1281147821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not true < 1281147823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has never been true < 1281147859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea of typography is to make /readable/ type, to the finest degree possible: this ends up being visually appealing to get your mind into a consistent reading rhythm in accordance with the whitespace, etc. < 1281147888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, if you -- subconsciously -- flag anything as looking "awkward", even if you don't realise it, it jarrs just a little, and all those jars add up. Leaving the door ajar. I'm very, very tired. < 1281147910 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. There's the functional aspect of typography. That's why calligraphic typefaces usually are not good for large volumes of text < 1281147915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data, SLEEP < 1281147921 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they're visually appealing. < 1281147933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes < 1281147939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you hated typography :) < 1281147949 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean I don't know anything about it. :) < 1281147958 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hate is too strong. I don't hate fields of study. < 1281147978 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just personally would not devote serious amounts of time to it. < 1281148089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interests are a bit arbitrary. < 1281148106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. I like fucking cows, for instance. < 1281148133 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if I could save the world with typography I would devote some time to it < 1281148146 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a world peace treaty that's so well set, no one could possibly refuse. < 1281148147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can save the world by fucking cows? < 1281148164 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the saving-the-world condition is only valid for typography < 1281148167 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for interests in general. < 1281148183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile: < 1281148184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:52:54 fizzie: i like cows < 1281148185 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: dr. rutherford ( middlesex, brentford) rose to move as an amendment, that the nation ought to be fnord had a great battle which arrested the armies of france or austria. if his happiness coincides with the desires, of any state in the presence of dost mahomed. then came a notification that dost mahomed would not make his appearance there. in the garrets was his library, a large and growing party in the nation; and for th < 1281148228 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1281148235 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot astounds me with each sentence. < 1281148236 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: froissart, character of the scotch universities. war with china, the. < 1281148266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1281148266 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches* ss wp youtube < 1281148271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1281148271 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1281148273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: duck butts < 1281148273 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: cool. does anyone know of any way to connect < 1281148275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It basically func- < 1281148275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tions like a trapdoor ten seconds forwards in time. Nothing can come back the < 1281148275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other way – that would result in an ešect preceding a cause, which would cause the < 1281148275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1920 CHAPTER 7. THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD < 1281148275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universe as we know it to cease to exist, with potentially devastating consequences. < 1281148286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That copied badly, but yes? < 1281148298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the - < 1281148303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I like that line < 1281148308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already quoted the universe-ceasing-to-exist part ;P < 1281148324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you don't have the new version with the em dashes, I see. < 1281148341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: However, I realised that what I said isn't quite true. < 1281148349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- is correct when surrounded by spaces. < 1281148354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be -- when speech is being cut off or resumed. < 1281148354 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truth is overrated. < 1281148358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, I will upload the newest PDF for you. < 1281148367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1281148378 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you getting free labor out of Sgeo? o_o I find this amazing. < 1281148385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You sure do appreciate my work. < 1281148393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, I did it all myself instead. But yes: credit him and he'll do anything. < 1281148402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like currency, but FREE! < 1281148405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://filebin.ca/jvtunb/ed.pdf < 1281148421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't wanna lost my place :( < 1281148436 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you win the Nobel Prize for me I'll credit you. < 1281148443 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a < 1281148463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Note the page number. < 1281148477 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it would be interesting if there was only one nobel prize... like a wrestling championship belt. < 1281148494 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every year the champion had to out-academic the contestor. < 1281148657 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if you can devise a typeface that is composed of fractals then I will be intrigued. < 1281148679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That's not hard. < 1281148697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just find some fractals that look like letters; I'm sure there's some sufficiently generic meta-fractal you could supply parameters to to get that. < 1281148703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even just warping an existing fractal. < 1281148704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1281148706 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well neither am I, thanks to your mom. :) < 1281148722 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAM < 1281149040 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1281149499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there's already a design for replacement red blood cells that are so much more efficient that if you replaced your red blood cells with them, you could hold your breath for four hours. We just can't build them. Yet." < 1281149793 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281150031 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h55.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281150121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: source? < 1281150164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://digitalkingdom.org/robin/tiki-index.php?page=My+Views+On+The+Future < 1281150325 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h178.10.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281150412 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281150624 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281150677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wrote PipeTeX, I want you to please see this program http://sprunge.us/USOE < 1281151461 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you have any suggestions < 1281151485 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It might be difficult to figure out without a printout) < 1281152001 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want my character to eat your arm, and then fix it, and then pay you back double (because east pays/receives double)? < 1281152040 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would you rather learn to stand on the ceiling in a different language? < 1281152057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads < 1281152082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think that you are crazy. < 1281152098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I am in awe. I think. < 1281152105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Perhaps I am crazy, but is that sufficiently relevent? < 1281152118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrt that paste, yes. < 1281152119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281152146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK. < 1281152178 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any suggestions or anything like that, having to do with the program? < 1281152205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, I'm afraid. < 1281152390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has named pipes? < 1281152400 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people might say Don Knuth is also a bit crazy, and perhaps it is? < 1281152419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I don't think a single person in this room is _sane_, so.. < 1281152428 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, Windows has named pipes, but you have to use the system call CreateNamedPipe and ConnectNamedPipe it is a server/client program. < 1281152436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dust Jacket Hardcover: A book bound in navy blue linen with a full-color dust jacket. < 1281152437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case Casewrap Hardcover: Full-color, glossy cover; no dust jacket. < 1281152438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1281152489 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But they are all in a directory called \\.\pipe or in \Device\NamedPipe in the NT object manager. (If you have the "ddd" program I wrote, you can make a list of named pipes by typing "ddd z: \Device\NamedPipe" and then "dir z:") < 1281152504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION barely knows what a named pipe is < 1281152518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, why not use regular pipes for this? < 1281152549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because it has to go on both sides < 1281152554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping < 1281152645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if zzo38 is an Order of the Stick fan < 1281152662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1281152941 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281152957 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Do you think this program is understandable better with a printout?) < 1281152966 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know if its possible to install linux onto a partition without using a CD? < 1281153039 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281153058 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Probably it is possibly in some way? < 1281153062 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Sure, there are USB installs. < 1281153071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Plus if you have Windows, there are installs you can do that boot from Windows. < 1281153104 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha hm < 1281153149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1281153152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF WTF WTF < 1281153159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe I didn't notice until just now < 1281153175 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pharo uses, for its default font for code, a non-monospaced font < 1281153179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who DOES that? < 1281153203 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Pharo? < 1281153203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how much that subconsiously elicited some opinion about Smalltalk < 1281153213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, a .. Smalltalk thingy. A fork of Squeak < 1281153568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to learn about Forth programming? < 1281153632 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Forth, you can lets say, to define conditions. The IF must jump to the corresponding THEN if the condition is not true, but IF is read first, so we must put a mark in there. We can make a helping word: : ORIG HERE 0 , ; < 1281153652 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now: : IF` 0=GOTO` ORIG ; : THEN` HERE SWAP ! ; < 1281153781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I found out the Horror behind Memoir. < 1281153782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do ELSE it will be the IF jumps to ELSE if false, but ELSE jumps to THEN regardless. Since the jumps will be in the switched around order ( [IF [ELSE] THEN] ) we can do it like: : ELSE` GOTO` ORIG SWAP THEN` ; < 1281153791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why do you need a monospaced font for code? < 1281153799 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What is the Horror behind Memoir? < 1281153816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It won't automatically resize the page layout if you change the dimensions! Aaagh! < 1281153819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ... it's what everyone's used to. I guess it makes more sense for Python than anything else < 1281153842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... Why Python?! < 1281153847 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-monospaced fonts are better for prettyprinted programs, such as web program. < 1281153850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, /nobody/ is used to Smalltalk. < 1281153865 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For loops, we need BEGIN ... AGAIN and BEGIN ... UNTIL and BEGIN ... WHILE ... REPEAT < 1281153891 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Smalltalk being the first language I've seen non-monospaced code in made me have an artificially high opinion of it < 1281153892 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The beginning of a loop does nothing, it is just a marker for the repeat part to jump back to, thus: : BEGIN` HER ; < 1281153899 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: BEGIN` HERE ; < 1281153939 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The AGAIN just jumps back: : AGAIN` GOTO` , ; < 1281153989 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For UNTIL it is like AGAIN but we repeat until the condition is true, that is, repeat if the condition is false: : UNTIL` 0=GOTO` , ; < 1281154007 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHILE is just like IF: : WHILE` IF` ; < 1281154060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REPEAT at the end of a BEGIN ... WHILE loop is just repeat back to the beginning (unconditionally), but again the IF blocks are in backward order, thus: : REPEAT` SWAP AGAIN` THEN` ; < 1281154064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Forth is so simple. < 1281154077 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion? < 1281154089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, non-monospacing makes it harder to see . and : < 1281154140 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1281154145 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Perhaps if you want non-monospacing you can also prettyprint it like Enhanced CWEB does for C programs. (For Smalltalk, you would have to do it differently, though) < 1281154235 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281154336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Call me when this test fails, I want your machine" < 1281154493 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What test do you mean? < 1281154504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sz := 1024*1024*1024*1024. < 1281154504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self should:[Array new: sz] raise: OutOfMemory. < 1281155016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latest version of Ed stories: http://filebin.ca/mjced/ed.pdf < 1281155047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should eat something soonish < 1281155130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Eat your arm and then make a spell to fix it? (O no, you are not that kind of monster in D&D) < 1281155216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch, on page 64: "He'd" that looks like "Hed" with a ' on top. < 1281155218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs more spacing. < 1281155303 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc < 1281155723 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I need to add some more spacing between fucks of your mother. < 1281155730 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting kind of ridiculous < 1281155735 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1281155757 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is writing this WHILE having sex with your mother, y'know. < 1281155768 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's like the fourth time today, so it's painful ... and spongy. < 1281155823 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah I just inject meth directly into my penis < 1281155827 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I never orgasm. < 1281155849 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so painful, yes. But not spongy. < 1281155875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/rabery/ed.pdf < 1281155901 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The @@@o command (look up "Command o" in the index) can be used to measure the minimum width that a paragraph can fit into. < 1281155938 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is something that I believe TeX does not have built in, and that there is no way to do it using the built-in commands) < 1281155951 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the context of that command, I am a paragraph and your mom is what I'm fitting into. < 1281155984 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Do you mean *my* mom? I don't think so. < 1281155996 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281156007 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am referring to the Platonic ideal "your mom" < 1281156013 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the essence of the idea. < 1281156017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: O, OK. < 1281156020 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1281156032 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Platonic ideal your mom just happens to be a milf. < 1281156061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are talking about Platonic ideals about "your mom" I suppose we do not have to worry about it < 1281156353 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what kind of creature my D&D character is and what kind of spell they have that nobody else would ever think of using? < 1281156411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, how many things did Smalltalk invent o.O < 1281156435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windowed GUIs, IDEs, and unit testing?!?!? < 1281156471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Did it? Anything else? < 1281156498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[I think Windowed GUIs might be overly broad] < 1281156505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, OOP, obviously < 1281156579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Object-oriented programming, as well as various other things that some people have heard of and other things that nobody has every heard of, has been done a lot in Forth, too, they are nothing new, Forth already can do all of these things and more, you just to implement them using simple codes like the examples I posted above (in this IRC) < 1281156700 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some of the documentation of PipeTeX could be improved a bit, I might do so in the next version, as well as adding additional commands) < 1281157130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish my computer was fast enough to do HD. < 1281157140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disconnecting in 4min < 1281157142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ForthTeX < 1281157172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That is idea! < 1281157248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{\sf FORTH}\TeX}\ForthTeX\def < 1281157267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{Introduction to the \ForthTeX manual}\mychapterthing < 1281157300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You mean like a stack based where each {} is an entry on the stack? < 1281157314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{...} is basically a quoting command < 1281157322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\foo precedes commands, non-commands are "printed" basically < 1281157336 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps then you also need instead of \ForthTeX put a different kind of symbol meaning by name instead of by value? < 1281157339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can pretend that \sf is like a forth word that "reads a bunch of text" and sets it in sans-serif, up to the next { or \ < 1281157350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you're probably right < 1281157351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do < 1281157353 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: O, OK. < 1281157357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{\sf FORTH}\TeX}\def\ForthTeX < 1281157362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be more like Forth < 1281157363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even < 1281157373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\def\ForthTex {\sf FORTH}\TeX \end < 1281157378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is exactly like forth < 1281157385 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it is more like how Forth does it < 1281157388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\: \ForthTex {\sf FORTH}\TeX \; % you see where I'm going with this < 1281157394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that would be pretty darn cool... < 1281157406 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, in Forth you can change things around to work in many different ways < 1281157518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that last example, { and } would be commands to enter and exit a group to save information, so that \sf switches the font of the current group, and } put thing from the group back how it was before, you could have it like a stack, and then copy information alloted at the HERE mark and move it ahead, so that then you move it back afterward, that is one way. < 1281157546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281157548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\begin < 1281157548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hello, world! < 1281157548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \n\@ \1 \+ \n\! < 1281157548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\n \10 \< \until < 1281157560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1281157562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably \[integer] would just push [integer]. < 1281157580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the louf typesetting system is slightly similar to this. Not really, though; it's more functional than stack. < 1281157618 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, that would be how it does. And then \begin and \until inside of a definition like Forth, are just immediate words to keep track of the addresses for jumping back to, and so on < 1281157663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1281157666 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you would need \n\@ \10 \< < 1281157677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Otherwise you are comparing it with the address of \n) < 1281157696 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@174-16-95-127.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281157727 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think TeX is a pretty good typesetting system, however there are some weaknesses which is why I wrote PipeTeX. < 1281157782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although, there are other ways as well, such as e-TeX, EncTeX, MLTeX, LuaTeX, XeTeX, LaTeX, and so on) < 1281157797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I wrote PipeTeX instead. < 1281157838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you can use it even with later verions of TeX, possibly, too. < 1281157841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your TeX will almost certainly include e-TeX. < 1281157875 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1281157905 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You might be right about that. Still, I don't know about what things e-TeX actually does. < 1281157934 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with PipeTeX, I can make a paragraph box with the minimum width that it will fit, if I want to. < 1281157969 0 :deathmoniac!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1281158034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e-TeX just tweaks some stuff and adds some built-in commands. < 1281158043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're probably using it without realising it < 1281158044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it. < 1281158114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5am < 1281158116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta sleep smetime < 1281158117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sometime < 1281158223 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the fuck wont usb-creator-gtk use a goddamn minimal iso >_< < 1281158287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION returneth < 1281158477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: use unetbootin < 1281158484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me, it's a lot more pleasant < 1281158530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God it's nice having things to *go* to. < 1281159007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make me sleep ghost of sgeo < 1281159026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NETE < 1281159035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1281159039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLEEP < 1281159277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but- < 1281159280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only /just/ brightened < 1281159304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay but < 1281159307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i leave you with this < 1281159308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/rabery/ed.pdf < 1281159328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you will possibly enjoy the viewing of this memoir-typesetting of a sam hughes story. < 1281159341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, ed. < 1281159349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeppers < 1281159353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeset the nicest i can < 1281159357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments on a postcard or to the logs < 1281159360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye! < 1281159363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1281159365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281159368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nicely done. < 1281159597 0 :cal153!~cal@static-216-18-6-116.gtcust.grouptelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281159864 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281160084 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281160452 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww bye alise :( < 1281160548 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST ... WRITE ... MICROCOSM ... VFS ... < 1281160563 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1281160599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives Gregor a time injection < 1281160616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: http://codu.org/projects/microcosm/ < 1281160624 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An insane project that AnMaster and pikhq forced me to start. < 1281160638 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a time injection sounds like something from dr who < 1281160640 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started it under the condition that I wouldn't have to do this shit. < 1281160641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We like insanity. < 1281160642 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281160659 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i dont get it < 1281160661 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1281160663 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt matter < 1281160663 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281160674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit busy trying to prevent myself from becoming a complete hikikomori ATM, so. :P < 1281160740 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other ways to combine Forth with TeX, as well. One idea is, add a \forth command to TeX, which means switch into Forth mode (TeX's eyes no longer see the file), and it is processed by Forth, until Forth executes a [TEX] command to switch back. It would normally be a outer command, so things like \def\xyz{\forth 1 3 + . [TEX]} will just make \xyz to expand as "1 3 + . [TEX]" and then switch to Forth mode the next time TeX's eyes would < 1281160903 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then have ASSIGN-GULLET ASSIGN-STOMACH ASSIGN-INTESTINES to define TeX control sequences with functions of Forth codes assigned to them to work in that part of the processing < 1281160966 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281160996 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then TEX-HOOK to hook various parts of the processing of TeX < 1281161254 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you could include a file of Forth codes by typing \expandafter\forth\input < 1281162368 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281162858 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281163721 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281164830 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281165193 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281165271 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1281165337 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1281165593 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-46-103.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1281165775 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281165781 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281166557 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281167665 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281167672 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1281167692 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281167707 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1281167907 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281167999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1281168000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1281168380 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281171205 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281171892 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281172185 0 :cal153!~cal@static-216-18-6-116.gtcust.grouptelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281172479 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281174752 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281174785 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281175162 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281175167 0 :lifthrasiir!OeyNFeDn@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1281175322 0 :ronnie!~ronnie@CPE00119575c685-CM001404962f58.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281175515 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281175550 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281175559 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281175565 0 :ronnie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281175854 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-131.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281176411 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281176425 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281176912 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281177769 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281177905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281178418 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h11.46.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281178685 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281178853 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281178907 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet! < 1281179538 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1281180127 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1281180320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, where did you leave it? < 1281180423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1281180614 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281181653 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281183125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost marble < 1281183208 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1281184315 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-38-87.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281184330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1281184387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that it would take over 333 days to read all of Schlock Mercenary on Archive Binge's fastest setting. < 1281185562 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281186084 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1281186139 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281186343 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-82.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281186487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1281186488 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: maybe one could name kim deal, too. < 1281186496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1281186496 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1281186507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style discworld < 1281186507 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) < 1281186509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1281186509 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ' most people do,' said < 1281186847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Said who? < 1281186848 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there was a short man in a suit of armour. there was a pulse there, but that's only because he wants to show he's willing. very willing lad, brutha." < 1281187258 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1281187383 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281190680 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281192952 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1281193442 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1281194196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the subject of urgency < 1281194645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, memoir really sucks in one way. < 1281194902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memoir? < 1281195197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only LaTeX document class that matters. < 1281195216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does books, articles, memos, notes, poetry, ... < 1281195256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its manual is a veritable tome of knowledge; a complete book with beautiful little miniatures of various page layouts and the corresponding code, and such. It contains much history about typography and information on why you might want to do things certain ways, but also includes all the information you need to completely change the entire page layout, just using memoir's commands. < 1281195265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also backwards-compatible with the article class and probably others. < 1281195305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that sucks about it is that if you use a non-standard paper size, I don't think it has a way to automatically "scale" the proportions of a built-in page layout for a similar size, down to fit your page. < 1281195314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have to specify all the values manually, which is... not easy if you're not good at that. < 1281195865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: \enlargethispage{3\baselineskip} % is this considered okay if i have e.g. an epilogue which i want to fit on one page rather than having a few dangling lines on the next page? < 1281195905 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wellllllll it's really a hack and not very nice to do that but I guess you could get away with it < 1281195913 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you don't want to solve it this second < 1281195930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: can't really be solved; the only thing i could do is make the "chapter" heading appear higher on the page < 1281195935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not certain how to do that with memoir < 1281195946 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: \usepackage{fullpage} :)))))))) < 1281195954 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage{savetrees} < 1281195963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already committed such a sin once, anyway: < 1281195970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\enlargethispage{2\baselineskip} < 1281195970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\enlargethispage{2\parskip} < 1281195970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\pbreak < 1281195987 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear lord just use the above packages you will not be disappointed < 1281195987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make the \pbreak (basically a centred \asterism with some space around it) fit on the end of the page, rather than the beginning of the next page. < 1281195992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: nothx < 1281195994 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use *one of the above packages < 1281195995 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1281195997 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not???? < 1281196005 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y do u h8 on savetrees < 1281196007 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you not like trees < 1281196014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate trees and i like whitespace :) < 1281196024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The goal of the savetrees package is to pack as much text as possible onto each page < 1281196024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1281196025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a L TEX document. Admittedly, this makes the document far less attractive." < 1281196026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even they admit it! < 1281196044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"• At most two authors are listed. The remainder are replaced by “et al.”" < 1281196045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that's EVIL! < 1281196047 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1281196054 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1281196065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, savetrees is like a tree nazi < 1281196067 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage{fullpage} < 1281196072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DECREASE! EVERYTHING!" < 1281196091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: but dammit, I like my whitespace :) < 1281196101 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just uses a full page < 1281196105 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't do other things < 1281196105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: anyway i'm not fucking greatly with layout until I figure out how to get memoir working with a smaller size < 1281196110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage[oneletterperpage]{killallthestupidtrees} < 1281196121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but memoir purposefully pushes the chapter headings down < 1281196125 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hahaha < 1281196128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for aesthetic reasons < 1281196134 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm aware < 1281196144 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How about you just ignore it for now < 1281196145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: you got any idea how to give memoir a custom paper size and give it one of its default layouts and tell it "go scale"? < 1281196153 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1281196155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm too scared to define my own values, the default ones are fine < 1281196156 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't want to do that < 1281196157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: dammit < 1281196160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: i do though :) < 1281196164 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you don't < 1281196169 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to care about aesthetics < 1281196185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I care about aesthetics; I'm just not very good at specifying arbitrary values like that. < 1281196196 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They aren't arbitrary < 1281196196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what trim paper size does The Quadrescence Press use? :P < 1281196208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're arbitrary to me, though; i.e. i just see a number box < 1281196215 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they are to you < 1281196217 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they aren't < 1281196235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course, I agree. < 1281196236 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: finish your document in its entirety then worry about this stuff < 1281196241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: it is finished < 1281196249 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh okay, do you want to send it to me < 1281196256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :D < 1281196257 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to screw with it < 1281196264 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I c. < 1281196275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellll okay but I reserve the right to then screw with it again completely < 1281196298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just yet another typesetting of someone else's work because I am ~not cool enough to write~ < 1281196306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tars it up < 1281196310 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1281196326 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would tell you exactly what to do, it's just hard for "visual things" < 1281196331 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like visual basic < 1281196342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1281196366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do you have the Minion Pro package installed? < 1281196377 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1281196384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1281196389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/wohxwx/ed.tar < 1281196392 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god you're using minion < 1281196398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pdflatex ed.tex", etc. < 1281196401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: is that a bad thing? :D < 1281196408 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1281196413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(( < 1281196417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been playing with other typefaces for it < 1281196427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minion is just my fallback so I don't have to look at computer modern when tweaking stuff < 1281196434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's wrong with minion? < 1281196453 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with CM? < 1281196473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not exactly ideal for long prose, like all didone/modern typefaces imo < 1281196485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more to the point, what's wrong with minion? < 1281196527 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing is ``wrong'' with it, I just don't really like when people use it. I mean, it's a pretty OK typeface, maybe it's that Wolfram Research uses it < 1281196561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wasn't aware that Wolfram used it. < 1281196573 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the kerning of some characters is weird < 1281196578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: otoh, bringhurst uses it < 1281196595 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure a lot of people do because it makes them Hip and Different < 1281196601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, kerning is pissing me off right now; TeX is stupid enough that microtype suffers, because you can't disable kerning selectively properly < 1281196607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only when it's needed and shit) < 1281196631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minion makes you Hip and Different? gee, I really don't hang out in the kind of places where I'd find that kind of information :P < 1281196634 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: did you try \usepackage[bitstream]{mathdesign} < 1281196640 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's the package < 1281196648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dislike bitstream fonts < 1281196669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX Gyre Schola or whatever they're calling it these days -- the New Century Schoolbook-based one -- worked okay < 1281196704 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You dislike the fonts in the package I suggested? < 1281196737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably [bitstream] is the Bitstream Vera fonts? < 1281196746 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, definitely not < 1281196751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually got mathdesign installed, it seems; I'll rectify that. < 1281196754 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitstream Vera is not my cup of tea < 1281196766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Huh; I wonder which then. < 1281196779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitstream don't have any other Free with a capital E fonts afaik. < 1281196795 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1281196798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~/Documents/ed$ aptitude search mathdesign < 1281196798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~/Documents/ed$ < 1281196800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffff < 1281196807 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepacakge[charter]{mathdesign} < 1281196811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah bitstream charter < 1281196832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bitstream Charter is a typeface optimized for printing on the low-resolution 300 dpi laser printers of the 1980s." xP < 1281196847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blurgh; I need to isntall mathdesign now < 1281196857 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can think of alternatives < 1281196858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, no, wait < 1281196862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use the charter package < 1281196893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: unacceptable; doesn't have Greek < 1281196899 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1281196900 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1281196908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: I can't find file `grmn1200'. -- oh, do I need to delete the .aux crap? < 1281196913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :texlive-fonts-extra in ubuntu has mathdesign.sty. < 1281196929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Greek for exactly one letter, heh: < 1281196935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was expecting orange light to fall across us as < 1281196935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we arrived in the {\greektext e}Eri system at a relative speed small < 1281196935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough to make it appear that we were at a standstill." < 1281196955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: well, it certainly isn't telling me it has greek < 1281196960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even after rming the aux files < 1281196998 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well remove the \greekletter crap right now then which is probably specific to the minion package anyway < 1281197042 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it compiled for me with mathdesign < 1281197043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: no it is not < 1281197046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the babel package < 1281197047 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for textssc < 1281197054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the standard way to do these things ... < 1281197061 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe scc, i don't remember < 1281197083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't now of babel, really? < 1281197095 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of babel, I just don't typeset greek < 1281197102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xP < 1281197187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: what latex font do you think is the most similar to georgia? < 1281197192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the original typeface the text was set in < 1281197222 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um charter is kind of close < 1281197272 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fouriernc? < 1281197290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear: none of these have Greek. < 1281197301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe math-mode Greek, but not actual-text Greek. < 1281197327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX Gyre Schola is better than New Century Schoolbook so tgschola > fouriernc < 1281197341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a pretty close match, Georgia is just ... plumper and less serify. Damn, I need to learn the terminology. < 1281197393 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you just use Georgia with xelatex? < 1281197427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :georgia is designed for screen and, I dunno, I've never liked XeLaTeX much < 1281197446 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try \usepackage{kerkis}? < 1281197467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: LaTeX Error: File `kerkis.sty' not found. < 1281197478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to find what texlive package it's in; sigh < 1281197485 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll upload the pdf < 1281197489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1281197490 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can look before you go check it out < 1281197496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/textssc/textsc/ btw if not using minion < 1281197536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's based on Bookman? skeptical, but ok < 1281197546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX Gyre Bonum is probably better < 1281197550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as Bookmans go < 1281197551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll see < 1281197558 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.file-pasta.com/file/0/ed.pdf < 1281197604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that capital E is /freaky/ < 1281197623 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha quit looking at the giant E at the start < 1281197628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281197633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: i'm going to try xelatex just to see < 1281197749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Wow, \LaTeX looks fucked up in Georgia. The a is lowercase. < 1281197758 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1281197774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, XeLaTeX doesn't do \textsc properly, it seems; actually, wait ... does Georgia even have small caps? < 1281197785 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not who knows < 1281197831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux Libertine O looks nice ... < 1281197841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but nothing like Georgia :P < 1281197845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah < 1281197847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i nearly nearly give up < 1281197869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how many badnesses it complains about < 1281197870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so bad. < 1281197946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Maybe I'll just convert it to lout and become a hermit and bang sticks and rocks together to make runes. < 1281197957 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1281197958 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it < 1281197995 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.254 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281198003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if TeX Gyre Pagella has less awful quote marks than URW Palatino. < 1281198153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe, LuaTeX can't even load microtype. < 1281198172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281198200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: wait, there's an opentype to t1 converter, isn't there? < 1281198215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it only works for minion < 1281198227 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're thinking about converting georgia to something usable with latex < 1281198231 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop thinking < 1281198246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : base=$(basename "$font" .otf) < 1281198246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cfftot1 "$font" "pfb/$base.pfb" < 1281198246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : t1dotlessj "pfb/$base.pfb" "pfb/${base}LCDFJ.pfb" < 1281198254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: why :D microtype support and the like? < 1281198279 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minion could only be converted because someone spent a lot of time tweaking things, preparing fontinst files, and making a .sty file < 1281198286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1281198296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was only musing < 1281198314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should just email the author and ask him what he'd like it set in. < 1281198489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just forget about it and set his new novel but i'd have to read it first < 1281198492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just give up on typesetting < 1281198494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and become a hermit < 1281198496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sleep forever < 1281198500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. let's go with that one < 1281198925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb: rebooting into windows to see if it can handle HD < 1281198946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281199110 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281199590 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E5608.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281200901 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281203622 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1281204652 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281205026 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1281205295 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281205539 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1281205786 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281207504 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281207534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1281207555 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281207590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Windows can decode a "900p" Blu-Ray rip and have it almost synched up with the audio. < 1281207600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I conclude that Linux audio still suuuuuuuuuuucks shiiiiiit < 1281207616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only conclude that good God Ubuntu sucks at audio. < 1281207635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the *default settings* for ALSA and it just plain works. < 1281207635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a more positive note, thx coppro for making me decide to, uh, obtain Stargate Universe. < 1281207646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Air pts. 1 and 2 are anything to go by it's gonna be good. < 1281207689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately the Blu-Ray rip only has up to episode 10; apparently the season was released in two halves, both the price of a regular season (!) on Blu-Ray. So that sucks; I can't find the second half in such quality. < 1281207721 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281207768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: SyFy tends to air seasons in two parts. < 1281207779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second part of the season only finished a few weeks ago. < 1281207779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. < 1281207805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so that thing I saw on Sky marked as the "finale" was actually the finale of the first half? Interesting. < 1281207814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two releases are marked "1.0" and "1.5", which is a bit strange, but there you go. < 1281207830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then; now if only the 1080p 37" TV was in /here/. And I had a machine that can decode it with _perfect_ AV sync. < 1281207835 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, that's a very SCI-FI CHANNEL (not "SyFy" bleh) thing to do. < 1281207846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce Syfy as "Siffy" to protest the rename. < 1281207858 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love it. < 1281207859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...new, to Sci-Fi." "You mean 'Siffy'." < 1281207884 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "siffih". So it's awkward to pronounce. < 1281207888 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281207951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apparently "1.5" was released in July. < 1281207954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1281207960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few few weeks ago. < 1281207989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be able to find HD TV dumps; not a Blu-Ray rip yet. < 1281207999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Blu-Ray "Region B" (??) the full-season Blu-Ray came out in July too. Region A has to wait until 2011, but they got 1.0 and 1.5, while region B didn't. < 1281208025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My anal file-naming scheme has come under attack by the evil creators of Stargate Universe. < 1281208025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, where is oerjan when you need him < 1281208041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1.11.2 ???.mkv" (Yes, that is an en-dash.) < 1281208055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's two separate episodes, "Air (Part 1)" and "Air (Part 2)", but aired as one continuous one. < 1281208060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually, I would just title it "Air". < 1281208068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's a part 3 which was aired /after/ these. < 1281208073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah, for me the plain alsa with no pulseaudio just works. Even on computers with stuff like Intel HDA instead of my sb live card < 1281208082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pulseaudio is what causes issues IME < 1281208083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ALSA had the AV sync problems just as badly. < 1281208092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try OSSv4, then hang myself. < 1281208104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that I never had... Weird latency issues I guess < 1281208121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I ate some fun food today. < 1281208158 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hissing cockroaches? < 1281208173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punsch-roll <-- this very Swedish pastry is as noted in the article called "vacuum cleaner" here. Well, they had an extra long version at a café I visited today... Guess what they called it? < 1281208175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fun"; that is some definition of fun, "hissing cockroaches". < 1281208185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Black hole? < 1281208187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :central vacuum cleaner < 1281208193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/central_vacuum_cleaner.jpg < 1281208197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took that with phone camera < 1281208200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Clearly Ubuntu managed to fucking break ALSA. < 1281208204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's not... hilarious. < 1281208207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes doggy bag next to it. It was a bit too large. < 1281208214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I said fun, not hilarious < 1281208223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know, I don't think the _entire_ blame lies on Ubuntu's shoulders. < 1281208230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, plus, Swedish humour. It exists but is incompatible with you. < 1281208237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may be slightly incompetent, but you gotta admit, Linux audio isn't known to be very worky. < 1281208249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1281208258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Here's the thing: *I have yet to have issues with Linux audio*. < 1281208266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like getting pulseaudio and timidity to work together < 1281208278 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I only ever had problems when pulse came out < 1281208279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Here, YOU'RE the Stargate expert (Sgeo doesn't count), YOU name my file. (This is the most important thing.) < 1281208284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Good hardware. Good luck. < 1281208285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux 2.2, 2.4, and 2.6. OSS, pre-in-kernel ALSA, 2.6 ALSA. < 1281208287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I can strongly recommend that café for anyone in Sweden that happens to pass by the town of Vara (located along E20 between Göteborg and Stockholm). < 1281208296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've used it on a *lot* of hardware. < 1281208301 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anot sure what was so wrong with oss or alsa < 1281208310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: nothing at all. < 1281208313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, plenty. < 1281208316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: call that one Vacuum and the other one Air :P < 1281208319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just nothing that could be fixed with a new sound server above them. < 1281208319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just haven't used any of the freaking bizarre audio abstraction layers... < 1281208329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wat xD < 1281208334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless you count arts, which KDE 3 demanded. < 1281208343 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the first parts are more about a lack of air :P < 1281208345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll go with "1.11.2 Air (Parts 1 & 2)", but I'll FEEL BAD ABOUT IT. < 1281208363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Gee, just go and spoil it; I was expecting them to suffocate and the rest of the series just to be footage of dead people. < 1281208381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or colonise the planet and live peacefully with a few minor incidents, as they try to come to terms with their loneliness. < 1281208399 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGU actually has significant attrition :) < 1281208435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me not to talk to you about anything I haven't finished watching/reading/etc. yet. :) < 1281208441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOILERS: Destiny's destination is an alternate earth, where they will pick up more people and then leave again < 1281208454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me you /are/ joking. < 1281208459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: Here's the thing: *I have yet to have issues with Linux audio*. <-- the only issues I had so far has been with pulseaudio or jack. The latter is mostly my own fault for even trying to use that. Of course it works very well once it's set up. But the problem is that, setting it up. < 1281208470 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: maybe < 1281208477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with pulseaudio.... well I wouldn't know where to start with describing the problems < 1281208479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I hate you, because now I have to look it up. < 1281208484 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: rofl < 1281208490 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kidding < 1281208497 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's from a book < 1281208498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hyperventilation over! < 1281208503 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a SG book) < 1281208515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding abstraction servers to Linux audio is an absolutely retarded idea. < 1281208519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people love doing it? < 1281208540 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they can't think of any other ideas that sound so good but are really so bad < 1281208553 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281208554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\expandafter\forth\input < 1281208556 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't work < 1281208582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it kill them to just make the audio interface *work well*? < 1281208588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah... < 1281208609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elaborate justification for "1.11.2 Air (Parts 1 & 2)": En-dash to separate range is the Right Way to do things; series number must be included since it sometimes differs e.g. Voyager's "Unimatrix Zero"; the episodes are billed (Part N) for N in 1,2,3; there are two parts, and we should not insert "and" because it is more metasyntactic punctuation than actually part of the title. < 1281208610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, just use dmix in case of lack of hardware mixing (which is the case for most hardware these days) < 1281208621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use OSSv4. < 1281208630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh snap, no, that would actually *work!* < 1281208642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even ALSA, which *is* the audio interface for most Linux systems, has trouble with this... < 1281208645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You're really writing ForthTeX? < 1281208656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Tried OSSv4? You'll like it. < 1281208658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the HELL should you need a user library to just make the freaking audio interface work at all? < 1281208659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention OSSv4? < 1281208661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it's more work, and it would probably not work out of box, unless it provides alsa compatible APIs < 1281208669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It does. < 1281208673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's nothing that does not support OSS. < 1281208675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well. Still more work < 1281208680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In fact, you can also make libalsa /output to OSS/. < 1281208683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, alsamixer? (sorry, bad joke) < 1281208691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Seriously. That's 100% compatibility. < 1281208694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because OSS is the audio interface on all *other* UNIX systems. < 1281208698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281208699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can use the slightly-worse OSSv4 fake libalsa. < 1281208702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, I am not writing ForthTeX. It is just something I thought about while sleeping yesterday < 1281208705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(excepting OS X) < 1281208715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, for me as it happens, alsa actually works well. Both on desktop and laptop < 1281208717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Tempting, but ALSA "just works" here. < 1281208727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue why, it's just the way it is < 1281208728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dude, you use Gentoo. You _have_ to break things on a regular basis. < 1281208734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do it. < 1281208736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281208745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Things don't break here. < 1281208748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281208766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, actually, I manage to break X every now and then.) < 1281208795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, things didn't break on Gentoo. I think I had to report way more bugs under ubuntu so far than on gentoo. And I used gentoo for like 5-6 years. Ubuntu for about one < 1281208801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Perhaps instead of {...} pushing a "formatting stack", it could instead push a code block/quotation a la Joy. Then \sf would mean "sans-serif for the rest of the 'program'", where "program" is like a scope; i.e. it'd end after you finish executing the {...}. < 1281208813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although perhaps the pushing-a-formatting-stack would be a saner idea. < 1281208816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch I think is lowest but I used that less on non-servers than either of the other < 1281208821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that ForthTeX is a sane idea in the first place. < 1281208823 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this might work: \forth ' [TEX] ASSIGN-GULLET unforth [TEX] \def\inputforth#1{\forth\input #1 \unforth} < 1281208826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hard to tell < 1281208831 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I don't know about this way either) < 1281208833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only like half a year on main desktop < 1281208844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's the boring way, though. It should be a Forth integrated into the TeX, not TeX with Forth support. < 1281208846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, Gentoo is a reasonably stable system. Something that appears to have a bleeding-edge philosophy. < 1281208854 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course it is not sane idea..... < 1281208865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so yeah, gentoo's issue is actually the compile time. It _breaks_ less than other distros IME < 1281208875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's Gentoo's /users/ that break it. < 1281208882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes some. I agree < 1281208897 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But..... < 1281208901 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE ARE INSANITY!!!!!! < 1281208910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like those with insane CFLAGS. But well... I only know one such user, and he started using sane cflags later on < 1281208916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You could use {...} as strings that way, too. < 1281208918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1281208924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{sansserif} \fontname < 1281208926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1281208968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would forthtex be like luatex? Or would it use a separate syntax? Or is it something like literal forth programming? < 1281208981 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think such things can work unless it is entirely remade such that it is not TeX anymore < 1281208986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ForthTeX wouldn't really be TeX at all. < 1281208989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281208994 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But using \forth to switch works better in my opinion < 1281208999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my view, "\foo" would be execute-Forth-word-foo. < 1281209006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal words would just be "text" typeset. < 1281209011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there is an issue there. If you don't pass some test suite, iirc Knuth gets angry about you using the name TeX < 1281209014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ would push a new "formatting stack" < 1281209030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so \sf would say, change the font to sans-serif < 1281209031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the top formatting stack < 1281209032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it is a registered trademark or such, if it is, you would need to follow it < 1281209034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} would pop it < 1281209035 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, exactly, and it is also something I agree with as well, even if Knuth doesn't get angry < 1281209041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's just a codename :P < 1281209048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was more like TeX when I thought of it... < 1281209048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah right < 1281209060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\def \ForthTeX {\sf FORTH}\TeX \end < 1281209072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So \def would read a word, and get \ForthTeX back. < 1281209077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start defining just like Forth... < 1281209097 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is like Forth, but then it wouldn't be TeX < 1281209098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we have the \pushfmt instruction, the \sf instruction, the "FORTH" text, the \popfmt instruction, the \TeX instruction, and we stop. < 1281209116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "FORTH" text would be handled like numbers in Forth; "TEXT" instruction followed by the text, just like "2" -> "LITERAL 2" or whatever. < 1281209121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Fine; FORTHSeT. < 1281209124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ForthSeT. < 1281209164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have a command ending with {, actually. < 1281209174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\def \boldblock {\bf \end < 1281209176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then < 1281209180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\boldblock LOL BOLD} < 1281209188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since { and } would just be sugar for \pushfmt and \popfmt... < 1281209279 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea using \forth to switch, it has something like LuaTeX, but not quite, because TeX doesn't even see your Forth program, it is just switched, instead of using TeX's eyes/mouth/body you use the Forth and then it go back after, so you would define a Forth code in outer usually, and integrate it using ASSIGN-GULLET and so on < 1281209300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well possibly as other commands such as TEX-PARSE TEX-SEND-TOKEN and so on < 1281209336 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes your way, can be called ForthSeT, it might work < 1281209518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I never modified TeX (although I have read parts of the TeX source codes to clarify things), I wrote PipeTeX, which should be workable using any version of TeX, without having to modify each one. < 1281209545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone recommend me a Linux distro to toy around with that isn't Gentoo or Arch. < 1281209553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu has officially reached my Ultimately Annoyed state. < 1281209557 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The logo for PipeTeX isn't as complicated as things like LaTeX and AMS-TeX and so on, just {Pipe\TeX}) < 1281209566 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Linux-From-Scratch < 1281209578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No. :P < 1281209585 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Linux-From-UnScratch < 1281209589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1281209596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{\sf FORTH}\TeX: the only logo that matters! < 1281209840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does such a thing as Linux-From-Unscratch exist? < 1281209851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1281209981 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people say that literate programming forces you to document your program and therefore write a better code, but that isn't true at all. What it does do, however, is it makes it much easier to document your code! < 1281210022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// assign 4 to i < 1281210045 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281210073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidippenders; < 1281210083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm, where is oerjan when you need him < 1281210102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh yeah. Interesting turn of events in IWC eh? < 1281210140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it raises a lot of questions though < 1281210155 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not like that, though. Not like typing "// assign 4 to i", that is clear by the printout might be something like "i <-- 4" you can already see it assigns 4 to i < 1281210175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being sarcastic < 1281210176 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1281210177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like why the heck has shakespeare not given any indication of being from the past before < 1281210310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm not sure i _like_ this idea of explaining things "rationally" this way, it takes away the mystery. in fact that was one of the things i didn't like about the end of the Ed stories < 1281210375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but... that's because you're you. No offence. < 1281210376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://zem.fi/~fis/20100805_001-009.jpg http://zem.fi/~fis/20100806_001-007.jpg < 1281210398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word for a random, unexplained thread that holds the whole story together without any apparent justification is a "plot hole". < 1281210410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it became serious and logical rather than crazy and whimsical) < 1281210422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, okay, on hotel wlan. Will take ages to load < 1281210425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm < 1281210431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it became that since Be Here Now < 1281210437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would take some pics through the window, except it is fairly boring < 1281210440 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281210442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now which one was that < 1281210444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not any grand view < 1281210448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the /first long story/ < 1281210454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Slack < 1281210458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it wasn't serious by Be Here Now, it definitely was by Spacd < 1281210463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, is that like .fi dreamhack or such? < 1281210469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There are _small.jpg variants, but... < 1281210470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: thank you for an answer that gives my memory absolutely nothing to remember it by < 1281210487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Be Here Now -- time travelling, Kerrig mountain facility < 1281210488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a literate programming system contains features that can be useful regardless of the amount of documentation you are including, such as the index and table of contents, and code chunks..... < 1281210499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spacd -- whoops Epsilon Eridriani doesn't exist < 1281210501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't remember what DreamHack is; gaming or demoscene? < 1281210507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Eridani < 1281210516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, gaming iirc < 1281210543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, this used to be a demoscene event. Nowadays it's a hybrid sort of thing. < 1281210564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1281210577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, anyhow i liked the whimsical ones best < 1281210581 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the PipeTeX codes, I don't think I need to document every section, some should be self-explanatory, and I don't need to document it as m much as some people do, but there is still some missing, which I can add in the next version < 1281210595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, so let's say Spacd, since Be Here Now isn't that serious. it's lighthearted, but not the same sort of jokey story that the short stories are at the start, when setting the stage in the first two paragraphs. after that, it's serious (the raretl ivehf) < 1281210616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Y'know what else would be nice? A short story collection containing of qntm.org < 1281210621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opening stories haven't got much substance really and are really stage-setters < 1281210625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really just stage-setters < 1281210632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be Here Now is short compared to the others < 1281210646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really, the Ed stories are serious for a majority of their length < 1281210666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Eh wot? < 1281210677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I can't use Slack. Actually I'm not sure what I can use: I need a recent kernel to support my Ethernet. < 1281210685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: All the short stories on qntm that aren't part of a story. < 1281210687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last Ubuntu didn't support the card. < 1281210689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In what? < 1281210694 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Then upgrade the kernel. < 1281210701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typeset as a single volume? < 1281210703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Can't do that without internet. < 1281210705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah. < 1281210709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'd like to finish the Ed stories, first. < 1281210720 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Can't you do it with a DVD, or something like that? < 1281210724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And that includes Free, Standing as an epilogue. < 1281210728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No optical drive. < 1281210734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, okay, took some (free hand) pics < 1281210736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The next Sam Hughes thing I'm likely to typeset is Fine Structure, but I'll have to read it first. < 1281210738 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Can you use USB? < 1281210746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes. But at that point I get too bored. < 1281210746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'll see if I can do anything usable with it < 1281210757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw those images were not panos right? < 1281210758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:18:04 you're only allowed to use alise's haskell on pro-GNOME operating systems. < 1281210758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1281210758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then but something changed in tone when the andromedans got introduced. < 1281210759 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that's why. < 1281210762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1281210763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were < 1281210780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the dark one looks much more like fish eye < 1281210810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mmm. < 1281210813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's hardly the ending though. anyway what would you have preferred, he having destroyed Andromeda and nothing coming of it? what would be the point of that having happened, then? < 1281210822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 9 and 7 pics; taken with the phone, can't really switch lenses on that one. (Well, maybe with some sort of adapter.) < 1281210831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, rightr < 1281210833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right* < 1281210839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this is going to be my real camera < 1281210845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll transfer it in a few seconds < 1281210859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see if I can make a pano out of it < 1281210862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Perhaps Tyro? < 1281210887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm here with the N900 (64k compo is about to start in 7 minutes), so I won't probably even try to look at any large images before I get out. < 1281210899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I started reading Tyro and concluded Sam was right, it's crap writing. < 1281210921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'll scale them down. I'm on bad wlan < 1281210921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like the concept. But yeah, Sam has definitely improved. < 1281210937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The Fourth-And-A-Halfth Planet I would do something with if I understood it one damn bit. < 1281210938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bit Rate=24 Mb/s Tx-Power=15 dBm < 1281210941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Link Quality=38/70 Signal level=-72 dBm < 1281210943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1281210948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, huge amount (over 15) of 4k entries this year here. < 1281210956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh God I love that one. < 1281210975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: WLAN here is so bad, I'm just using this 384k 3G. < 1281210996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't the n900 supports more than that? < 1281211014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, besides all those computers down the stairs look like they use ethernet < 1281211035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I'd need to pay more for using more than that. :p < 1281211044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:39:21 I'm trying to read the source for Epigram (literate Haskell). I should probably stop because I don't know enough about type theory to tell when they're joking or not. < 1281211044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just Conor. < 1281211051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sit back and enjoy the ride; not even he knows. < 1281211054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sucks thern < 1281211055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1281211065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this wlan is free when you have a hotel room < 1281211066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.e-pig.org/darcs/Pig09/src/Epitome.pdf, for anyone who wants to gawp. < 1281211091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The wlan here is free, but it's too sucky to use. < 1281211098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering user/pw I very much doubt they could prevent someone over the street from using it... < 1281211105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and auth over http < 1281211126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just meant that 3G speeds >384k would mean a more costly mobile subscription thing. < 1281211177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway it will be below my usual standard... ISO400 < 1281211184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use ISO64... < 1281211216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:47:25 and I noticed yesterday that it didn't like "movie" < 1281211216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in en-GB it is "film". < 1281211218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone with a computer place (and the associated ethernet switch port) is supposed to be using it, but there's still overcrowding, and I guess they just don't pay that much attention to the wlan. < 1281211224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"movie" is en-usism < 1281211269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:52:00 Fine, DOCTOR WHO. Anyway, I've noticed that happens a lot -- you learn a word, then suddenly hear it used. It's probably some kind of psychological trick, like, you heard the word before, but you didn't know what it meant, so you didn't retain the memory the same way. < 1281211269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baader-meinhof < 1281211270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, most UK people I know use movie too < 1281211275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: indeed. < 1281211276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on IRC < 1281211291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they probably say "gonna" at least occasionally IRL too. < 1281211297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called osmosis < 1281211317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I strongly suspect this dict is based on something like a too-old-to-be-copyrighted word list + some new stuff added in. < 1281211338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering other cases < 1281211348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I noticed before but I can't recall right atm < 1281211410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Factual data cannot be copyrighted, though a specific presentation can be. < 1281211451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: compilation copyright? < 1281211456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true < 1281211460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281211465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least somewhere < 1281211468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1281211517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:39:00 I can't eat kittens‽ Even ones that aren't my pet? < 1281211517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281211540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:56:51 Well, now my kitten has died of terminal stupidity. < 1281211566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eating kittens is just plain wrong! And no one should do it! EVER! < 1281211613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lex5sz.jpg < 1281211617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues the tradition of quoting quotes without having seen the original < 1281211815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How good is Slack's driver support? < 1281211966 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281212054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: >_> < 1281212084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does FreeBSD have a livecd these days? < 1281212120 0 :RoxFox64!~RoxFox64@66-168-215-170.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281212131 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, sweet < 1281212134 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=freebsd+livecd < 1281212138 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kidding) :) < 1281212149 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here still using befunge? < 1281212165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Yo. < 1281212166 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it was fragrant with the scent of abomination. hear a speech declaring a holy war, is the man insane? some idiot missionary gets himself killed, some man writes some gibberish about the shape of a dragon, wonse?" < 1281212194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote pikhq: it was fragrant with the scent of abomination. hear a speech declaring a holy war, is the man insane? some idiot missionary gets himself killed, some man writes some gibberish about the shape of a dragon, wonse?" < 1281212195 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: he was lounging in a chair surrounded by scrolls and scraps of paper. it had worked. he'd always been aware of it? < 1281212200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RoxFox64: Yes. < 1281212206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it was fragrant with the scent of abomination."; new favourite quote. < 1281212210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1281212211 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld* europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1281212227 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :207| pikhq: it was fragrant with the scent of abomination. hear a speech declaring a holy war, is the man insane? some idiot missionary gets himself killed, some man writes some gibberish about the shape of a dragon, wonse?" < 1281212278 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, is it possible to have a remote swap file, or does linux prevent it? < 1281212293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: well, it's a swap partition. so, yes, like this: < 1281212301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use NFS to mount the remote host. < 1281212308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a "foo" file on it. < 1281212312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount -t swap -o loop foo < 1281212315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or however you mount swap these days < 1281212320 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sweet. I managed to find small(But, old) interpreter that turns befunge to c. Then I made a script for linux, and a batch for windows to compile it, run it and dispose of it. < 1281212331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RoxFox64: It doesn't turn Befunge into C. < 1281212337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It bundles Befunge code with an interpreter. < 1281212374 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: thanks I was trying to use mkswap and swapon.. maybe mount -t swap is what I needed < 1281212407 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I haven't bothered to look through the source fully. I just know it generates a c source. < 1281212427 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wish I were more creative < 1281212444 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be able to make some complex stuff < 1281212459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I don't think mount -t swap actually works. < 1281212465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["We caused that asteroid belt, four and a half billion years ago," said James. "It was going to condense into a planet called Earth, which was going to become our home planet when we eventually evolved on it. But we went back in time and blew it up." < 1281212466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chay nodded sagely. "Why?"]] < 1281212467 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I'd use Befunge for something like ASCII if I were < 1281212533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1281212573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How long does a Gentoo install last these days/ < 1281212574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*days? < 1281212577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RoxFox64: "something like ascii"? < 1281212636 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, ASCII art < 1281212646 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats really what I meant < 1281212655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1281212673 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ansi art is more fun :) < 1281212681 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should make a befunge IDE of sorts < 1281212723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Smalltalk, but I absolutely despise smalltalk.org < 1281212727 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only thing I'd really have to do is make a text editor that forced insert mode on a row of spaces though. < 1281212767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, stitching atm.. < 1281212795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Day or two? < 1281212806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought the compile-everything installs were deprecated. < 1281212810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... auto exposure... how could I forget. Well too dark outside now to correct this < 1281212834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I've never heard of smalltalk.org. Ignore it. < 1281212837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is counting a complex desktop environment such as KDE or Gnome. < 1281212840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How long is a Gentoo install! < 1281212841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah. < 1281212846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's quite a bit less time if you have lesser needs. < 1281212860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah fuck it, why does stuff suck so much. < 1281212868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1281212871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps an hour or two for one's initial install getting to a base, bootable system. < 1281212874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah blah whine moan. < 1281212880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay. So how is Slack's driver support? < 1281212888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: How long is a Gentoo install! <-- on what system? < 1281212889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Should be "reasonable". < 1281212891 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alsie, sorry, the matrix has you < 1281212913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a way it's a ironicly funny and twisted sorry state that those that promote the "safety of typed systems" and "additional capabilities of typed systems" also are promoting the "barren space devoid of the richness of runtime meta data". < 1281212916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't have proprietary drivers by default but it should have pretty much of Linux's supported drivers. < 1281212917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are we talking about a dual-cpu system consisting of quad core xeon i7? < 1281212920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^from that site, not from me < 1281212922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or about a pentium2? < 1281212943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they utterly unaware that many statically typed languages (including C#) have metadata? < 1281212984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Non-static polymorphism kinda requires it. < 1281212990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ubuntu's last release lacked my Ethernet driver. The current one has it. < 1281212992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Slack have it? < 1281212999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Maybe? < 1281213003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where "static polymorphism" is C++ templates) < 1281213006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's fast enough. < 1281213013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: XD < 1281213020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's ... Archos, I think. < 1281213216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue with the "spartan" distros is that I assemble the "perfect environment" then it ends up irritating me for no apparent reason. I don't know why. I'm strange. < 1281213295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is a reduced size version: http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/hotel_window_small.jpg < 1281213361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 5.2 MB < 1281213374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tif is 48MB < 1281213381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Diagnose me. :P < 1281213431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You must write an OS. < 1281213459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His own OS will end up irritating him! < 1281213468 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write an os where everything is a dependency < 1281213487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far worse than the "perfect environment", imagine the scale of a "perfect os"'s irrittation < 1281213493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is my a key broken? < 1281213506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That isn't a diagnosis. < 1281213544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, it's a prescription. < 1281213552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: For what illness? < 1281213567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NIH Syndrome. < 1281213576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281213585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know I have /that/; what's /this/ illness? < 1281213589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how much does KDE4 suck? < 1281213621 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well it made me go back to gnome, does tha help? lol < 1281213632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, actually this current one is exactly NIH < 1281213658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, full size at http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/hotel_window.jpg < 1281213689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: yeah but that's /gnome/ < 1281213702 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you use a program to stitch that? < 1281213727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, no, I looked at the tif images then wrote a new one in a hex editor < 1281213728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281213734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, of course I used one. < 1281213737 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which one? < 1281213742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hugin, same as fizzie used for his picture above < 1281213761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, that is http://zem.fi/~fis/20100805_001-009.jpg < 1281213769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and http://zem.fi/~fis/20100806_001-007.jpg < 1281213800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Even the reduced-size version isn't very phone-friendly; but I guess it's okay for this half-a-gig-of-RAM iBook. < 1281213811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm okay < 1281213826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm on my 4GB of RAM thinkpad atm < 1281213833 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I guess I'll ask fizzie when he gets back < 1281213850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, he is back < 1281213851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have 1.25G of RAM in this, but I donated a gigabyte away. < 1281213852 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he's back.. < 1281213856 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will return < 1281213863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 1.25 - 1 = 0.5 ? < 1281213865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when? < 1281213867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, someone name something other than Arch in a few minutes, or the kitty gets it. < 1281213875 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what stitching program are you using? < 1281213886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I got a .25 back for the 1 I gave away. < 1281213890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: The same as AnMaster. :p < 1281213893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, anyway I told you the app above. hugin < 1281213894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: (That is, Hugin.) < 1281213918 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281213925 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay thanks < 1281213935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, it was right at the start of this line: hugin, same as fizzie used for his picture above < 1281213939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so um, why ask fizzie? < 1281213946 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I thought that was some kind of insult < 1281213952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, huh? < 1281213959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: "You're such a hugin!" < 1281213964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281213964 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were being weird so I figured you didn't want to tell me lol < 1281213975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kitty is about to get it. < 1281213989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, no, I just thought it was obvious you can't do that without a program < 1281213997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you need to do lots of corrections < 1281214009 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've done it with the gimp < 1281214020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a real, calibrated panorama-head, you can sort-of do it with just regular image-processing tools. < 1281214029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I mean, I get a horrible stitch if I don't optimise the various lens distortion parameters < 1281214040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shoots the kitty < 1281214041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then that is taken at most zoomed out setting < 1281214044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're all responsible for a feline's death. < 1281214049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite wide angle < 1281214060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, anyway with gimp you will likely get a very bad match < 1281214074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFS! JFS roolz, other filesystems droolz. < 1281214076 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah my results weren't very good < 1281214095 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I was either going to be very impressed or want to know what program you used.. anyhow.. lol < 1281214100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there were only 6 64k entries; it tends to oscillate. < 1281214145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every other year there's a whole bunch of great 64k's and very few 4k's; and then the opposite for the next year. < 1281214169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a doctor, and I killed a kitten! < 1281214179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how strange < 1281214183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any known reason for it? < 1281214222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are all completely oblivious to my afriddiliminosik. < 1281214230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it's because people think "oh, there were so few Xk entries this year, maybe I'll write one for the next year, since it'll be easier to win". < 1281214259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so the best strategy would be to go for the other one? < 1281214261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1281214267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one with many entries last year < 1281214283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, though it's by no means an exact rule, just a tendency. < 1281214287 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right so definitely go for 4k next year < 1281214292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know my postcode? i need it < 1281214297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still < 1281214325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it seems that doing oldskool entries is reasonably safe, since the amount of those has been declining for the last few years; this time there were only 4 oldskool demo entries. < 1281214399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing with 4k demos is that there are only so many ones that exist; you can rule out all of the ones that already exist, since you won't want to copy them < 1281214411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that you have a pretty good chance to hit on a good demo vs a bad one, vs a bigger file size! < 1281214415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[UBER LOGIK]] < 1281214422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not make a 4k one and then submit it to both, but pad it with 60k for the 64k one? < 1281214457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally you'd need to have a bit more content in a 64k entry. But you could possibly do a 4k, and then an "extended edition" 64k. < 1281214476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah that sounds like a good idea < 1281214510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn UNetbootin, you crazy. < 1281214535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit gaming-the-rules thing; I'm not sure if they have anything explicitly against it, though. And it *is* common to do stuff like using the same C64 picture both as an entry in the graphics compo and as a part of a C64 demo. < 1281214572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, UNetbootin being= < 1281214574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1281214583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a thing < 1281214596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how helpful < 1281214596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can do crazy things. < 1281214613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like boot a Linux live CD and install it when all you have is a drive running windows, no optical or USB drives < 1281214696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, not that hard assuming you can fit the cd image in memory < 1281214718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming you want to over-write windows) < 1281214750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not about memory < 1281214756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ? < 1281214758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it unpacks a bootloader plus the squashfs file into C:\ < 1281214765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1281214766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adds a bootloader option into Windows' bootloader < 1281214773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that boots the bootloader from C:\ < 1281214776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then boots the squashfs < 1281214782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then sees itself /and/ the windows partition < 1281214789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my solution would be to put ntfs-3g or such on the initramfs and then loop mount the iso < 1281214792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, you need a spare partition to install < 1281214796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and them copy that to tmpfs < 1281214802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how would you boot it in the first place? < 1281214803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1281214808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, it's exploiting how live CDs work. Nice. < 1281214841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, little known fact: bootloader of windows nt/xp and presumably later versions can chainload grub < 1281214849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you put grub in a file on the ntfs partition < 1281214859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, um, that's what unetbootin does < 1281214861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you copy the mbr (perhaps some more) < 1281214866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with syslinux i think iirc < 1281214868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's ntfs... < 1281214874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay that works too, but I done it with grub < 1281214875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't recall < 1281214896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only done it with LILO; grub's some sort of newfangled nonsense! < 1281214907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right < 1281215000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, with tmpfs and then unmounting the iso and the ntfs-3g fs you could easily resize the windows partition from there, or even overwrite it. Of course... if something goes wrong, or you lose power... you are not going to like it < 1281215009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now booting into Arch to see if it supports my Ethernet. < 1281215013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1281215066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never heard of that being an issue... wlan yes < 1281215091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not ethernet < 1281215105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's something very new, there might be a bit of a lag for the supporting. < 1281215138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even just a new variant that switches PCI ids or some-such to make it not autodetektize correctly. < 1281215152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That sort of stuff gets fixed real fast, of course.) < 1281215221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1281215890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Smalltalk is based on the idea, that if you both want to define @, then you probably are defining it with the same semantics :)" < 1281215945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you mean duck typing? < 1281215961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that is the effect of that < 1281216276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My objection (not as related to duck typing as AnMaster thinks) may be ended < 1281216292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, hm? < 1281216318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, if it was your objection, why did you quote it? < 1281216348 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My problem wasn't that MyClass and YourClass might both define #something, it was that both my project and your project might define Object>>something < 1281216357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I was quoting someone's response < 1281216370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281216391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I can't say I know smalltalk. What does >> do? < 1281216447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't do anything, it's just a convention to say, in the case of Object>>something, Object defines a method something < 1281216514 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281216517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281216518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1281216627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1281216754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aBag = Bag new. aBag add: ais523. < 1281216760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION curses the hotel wlan < 1281216767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1281216770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: SmallTalk? < 1281216771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aBag := Bag new. aBag add: ais523. < 1281216774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit Rate=5.5 Mb/s < 1281216775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1281216779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1281216781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second one, not the first < 1281216782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why are you trying to add me to a new bag? < 1281216797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? >:D < 1281216827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random fact: Feather's syntax is designed to resemble SmallTalk's as much as possible whilst meaning something completely different < 1281216849 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1281216935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay now post the details on that < 1281216954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't worked them out yet < 1281216957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or is this just a joke at our expense? A DNF of esolangs < 1281216967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNF is actually a good comparison < 1281216976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was being worked on right until the point where it was cancelled, apparently < 1281216996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, feather isn't cancelled is it? < 1281217001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1281217040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have been cancelled already in the future < 1281217084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281217119 0 :alise!~arch@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281217128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say something-- < 1281217130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1281217137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux really doesn't need swap if I have 4 GiB of RAM, right? < 1281217144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if it does: why, and how much? < 1281217149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523. < 1281217163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aBag add: alise. < 1281217165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1281217195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I wonder why they didn't call it a Set. < 1281217204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it has sets < 1281217207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least Sgeo is growing taste in languages. < 1281217218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bags can contain duplicates < 1281217220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any opinions on that swap thing? :-P < 1281217220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Linux really doesn't need swap if I have 4 GiB of RAM, right? <-- do you want suspend to disk? < 1281217222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference between a bag and a set is that bags contain duplicates < 1281217222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ah. < 1281217226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: multiset :P < 1281217232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know much about swapping < 1281217238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, not /especially/, but it would be quite nice ... < 1281217242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can't it use my proper disk? < 1281217244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but AnMaster's correct in that you need swap to be able to hibernate < 1281217246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nice... < 1281217251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Okay; firstly, why? secondly, why? < 1281217252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it uses swap for hibernate < 1281217254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the way it's implemented is by swapping everything out of memory, and then shutting down < 1281217258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281217263 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is Sgeo working on now < 1281217263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why can't it just swap out ... to disk? < 1281217266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, an existing program? < 1281217269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: he's just learning Smalltalk. < 1281217271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you mean, to disk < 1281217275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when you load again, everything's in swap, and it swaps it out as it reads it < 1281217275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so the ladies will like him. < 1281217279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to my existing / partition < 1281217282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1281217283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, to disk, yes your swap partition on the disk < 1281217286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a specified partition with stuff on it already < 1281217297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: presumably it would be a mess, because it would require unswapping everything immediately on boot < 1281217301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else leaving the file around < 1281217308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But existing OSes do this... < 1281217316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any huge barriers to the concept, but it would be harder to implement, thus probably hasn't been < 1281217316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so, what, I should have four freaking gigs of swap?! < 1281217318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well I don't know if hibernate supports swap files, but you can use a file as swap, not really recommended due to slower performance < 1281217323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it needs to be fixed in size < 1281217338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's fine for the swap to be smaller < 1281217344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, how comes encrypted swap works? < 1281217346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hibernate just fails if you're using more memory at the time than you have swap < 1281217350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Beh. < 1281217352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it does, I used it. < 1281217356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it works just like normal swap, but encrypted.. < 1281217362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, anyone want to check if a swap file can be hibernated to? < 1281217368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you'd just do < 1281217372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[initiate swap file] < 1281217373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[hibernate] < 1281217374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, means that the initramfs somehow gets the kernel to load from the right partition? < 1281217376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, post-hibernate: < 1281217378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after asking for password < 1281217381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[disable swap file] < 1281217381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to unlock it < 1281217382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[remove swap file] < 1281217385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with cryptsetup-luks < 1281217387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you hot-disable a swap file? < 1281217395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, "swapoff"... < 1281217396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean swapoff ? < 1281217408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in that case, incorporating swapoff into the hibernate routine would make sense < 1281217410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't know it existed) < 1281217412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So /if/ you can hibernate to a swap file, that should work great. The question is, can you? < 1281217421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is kind of important because JFS sort of sucks at resizing. < 1281217432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "sort of sucks" I basically mean "it doesn't really support it at all". < 1281217459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://wiki.debian.org/Hibernation/Hibernate_Without_Swap_Partition might be useful < 1281217462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how accurate it is < 1281217465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch has initialised my console to full 1366x768 resolution. It's quite bizarre. < 1281217471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have even less of a web browser than you right now. < 1281217474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it say? < 1281217495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it suggests making a lot of config changes to the way swapping works, and installing a package called "uswsusp" < 1281217500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, I found ext4 a reliable work horse. Sure, not the fastest one, or the one having most features, but very very solid. < 1281217522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a HA linux server I would probably go for ext4 on RAID6 or such < 1281217550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also an Ubuntu bug report, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/252143 < 1281217561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't ask what filesystem to use. < 1281217563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where they complain about the UI being incapable of realising that hibernation is possible even when it is, in a no-swapfile setup < 1281217572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFS has the best disaster recovery of any production-ready Linux filesystem, btw. < 1281217572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Arch has initialised my console to full 1366x768 resolution. It's quite bizarre. <-- you mean frame buffer? < 1281217576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the quickest recovery.) < 1281217577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that bizarre? < 1281217579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know; presumably. < 1281217582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because it's only a console! < 1281217592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``I love how fag quotes work properly with the default console fonts.'' < 1281217595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um, almost every distro I used does that < 1281217597 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1281217601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, modern ones < 1281217613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently WUBI used to use a hibernate-to-swapfile setup (due to not repartitioning anything) < 1281217622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was buggy in some way the bug report doesn't explain < 1281217622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So, does it work properly? < 1281217624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it very slow? < 1281217627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I really give a damn? < 1281217654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implication I get is fast, but buggy in some distros < 1281217662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Buggy I can handle; I'm using Arch. < 1281217665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buggy, I am absolutely prepared for. < 1281217677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, ASIDE from hibernation, will I need swap with 4 GiBs of RAM? < 1281217682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No assuming ridiculous usecases, AnMaster. < 1281217687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ? < 1281217698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, hibernate-to-file should work just fine in theory, even without additional setup < 1281217709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I suppose we can find out via experiment how it fails in practice < 1281217718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281217723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I thought you would go all ``Well if you're reconfiguring the LHC, you'll need more...'' < 1281217732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, I don't know what is ridiculous to you. Presumably you don't stitch HDR panoramas. Which makes my thinkpad swap trash < 1281217738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then I'll fill the rest of my disk. < 1281217744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 'Deed I don't. < 1281217755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, compile ghc or open office? < 1281217762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not either < 1281217766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GHC doesn't take much RAM to compile. I don't _want_ OpenOffice. < 1281217771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I compile GHC quite often; distros suck at it. < 1281217779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is slow to compile, yes, but not hoggy. < 1281217784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how? < 1281217784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm good point < 1281217790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have ~120 GiB of free disk, so saving 4 GiB will be nice. < 1281217792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: out of interest, do you want any office software (AbiWord or Microsoft Word on WINE or whatever)? < 1281217795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, compile llvm at -j42? < 1281217796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you happy without it? < 1281217796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No swap partition it is. < 1281217804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite ridiculous though < 1281217807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with the version of GHC in Ubuntu's repositories? < 1281217808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ouch at the latter. AbiWord is ... acceptable, when I have to use it. < 1281217819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why on earth would you be using more threads than 1.5 times the number of cores you have? < 1281217822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I generally either jot down stuff in a text file or use LaTeX. Or HTML. < 1281217831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rounded upwards or downwards? < 1281217832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason you use more threads than the number of cores you have at all is a scheduler bug < 1281217835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why on earth would you be using more threads than the number of cores you have? Because you're using a broken scheduler. < 1281217838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ha! < 1281217844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BTW, Con Kolivas' Brain Fuck Scheduler fixes that issue. < 1281217849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimal performance is -j < 1281217851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know; does it really matter? < 1281217859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and no reason at all, unless they are somehow network IO bound or such, with latency being the main bottleneck < 1281217876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you use NFS over IP over avian carrier I guess it might be reasonable < 1281217877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281217882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I wonder how easy it is to get BFS on Gentoo. < 1281217887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, BFS? < 1281217896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brain Fuck Scheduler. < 1281217906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281217919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is -j1 fastest for a single-core with all schedulers? < 1281217920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm, I notice no speed up with -j3 compared to -j2 on my thinkpad < 1281217922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess it would be < 1281217922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, awesome. < 1281217930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No separate /boot partition! No swap partition defined!" Arch, you complain so. < 1281217932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use ck-sources instead of gentoo-sources < 1281217935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-j2 compared to -j1 on my single core sempron 3300+ though... < 1281217942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adds Con Kolivas's patchset to the Gentoo patchset. < 1281217949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You might want to look at the Zen kernel too. < 1281217951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall do that after this torrent finishes < 1281217953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It adds TuxOnIce, BFS, etc. < 1281217953 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-4-195.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281217957 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281217958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Maybe just ck is fine though. < 1281217964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mmm, zen-sources may be nice. < 1281217968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, using an unusually high -j value would be nice if the make was X-bound for a huge bunch of different Xs in different components < 1281217973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it weird, a 1.3 GHz CPU with 4 GiBs of RAM at its disposal? < 1281217978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could do IO-bound and network-bound and CPU-bound things all at once < 1281217981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few years ago you'd be laughed at for suggesting it. < 1281217989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nonsense; we'll be using 4 GHz CPUs with that memory in a few years!" < 1281217998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And if the CPU is low-powered, no reason to put expensive RAM in it!" < 1281218008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, processor clock speeds stopped going up < 1281218017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the processors are still getting faster regardless, mostly by adding cores < 1281218018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that too, but my scenario also makes sense, for a certain value of sense < 1281218019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, BFS also makes the kernel smaller. < 1281218025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If not for public perception they'd be going /down/. < 1281218027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For power usage, etc. < 1281218031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1281218037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because it removes CFS. < 1281218043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, I really don't care about my clockspeed < 1281218043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which is not Brain Fuckedly simple. < 1281218060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because you can't get an electronic engineering degree without realising that lower is normally better, if you can speed the resulting speed up some other way < 1281218066 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281218085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I still do quite a few heavy serial tasks, meaning I want a reasonably high clock speed < 1281218092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.26 GHz is quite nice < 1281218095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this laptop < 1281218100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha, AnMaster doesn't understand how CPU architectures work < 1281218103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody laugh at him < 1281218105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: just do those heavy serial tasks simultaneously < 1281218109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AnMaster: < 1281218124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't help if it is one task only really < 1281218134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure, there are other ways to improve speed < 1281218136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd be surprised if your /life/ was that serial < 1281218139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better instruction set and so on < 1281218139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My CPU is a 10 GHz Subleq! Fuck yeah, serial tasks." < 1281218146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, trust me; AnMaster's life /is/ that serial. < 1281218157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could be more important than stitching panoramas?! < 1281218169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can stitch two panoramas at once < 1281218172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of course I do other stuff while waiting. I'm in no way suggesting that dual core or quad core is bad < 1281218179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then, that task seems somewhat parallelisable < 1281218187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STITCHING TEN PANORAMAS AT ONCE YEAAAAAAAAAAAARGH < 1281218206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHOTOGRAPHER HULK SMASH (IMAGES TOGETHER) < 1281218237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that 2x 2 GHz is better than 40 x 50 MHz < 1281218244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that is exaggerated < 1281218249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still get my point though < 1281218266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as good as 1,000,000,000,000 x 100 Hz! < 1281218274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, stitching is quite parallelisable < 1281218281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo typos < 1281218282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(think Connection Machine) < 1281218316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for some tasks that might actually be better, not for my use case though < 1281218335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as 40 x 50 MHz could be better for some use cases as well < 1281218463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NETWORK_PERSIST=yes will speed up shutdown, right? < 1281218475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it "skips network shutdown" < 1281218479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. BFS manages to make latency lower with more CPUs. Nice. < 1281218480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any bad side-effects? < 1281218542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guarantee that any even vaguely modern CPU executes things in parallel. < 1281218555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes I know about that < 1281218568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in this case I specifically meant multiple cores < 1281218584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, rather than out-of-order, superscalar and so on < 1281218599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wrt NETWORK_PERSIST? AnMaster? You know arch. < 1281218606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you are specifically referring to SMP. You probably still see benefits from it. < 1281218610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, NETWORK_PERSIST? < 1281218624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from /etc/rc.conf < 1281218630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway I don't have arch handy to check atm. I'm on a hotel room with my thinkpad running ubuntu < 1281218637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant? < 1281218658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh definitely, which I also said < 1281218706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but I wasn't complaining about SMP, nor NUMA, rather I'm saying that: < 1281218717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: well, processor clock speeds stopped going up < 1281218717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but the processors are still getting faster regardless, mostly by adding cores < 1281218717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: If not for public perception they'd be going /down/. < 1281218726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not always such a good idea < 1281218733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, for power usage it makes sense < 1281218746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you have any idea how crazy things are at high frequencies, in general? < 1281218764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lower frequency = saner < 1281218770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the general rule of electronics < 1281218773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, to some degree. I don't have a degree in EE though < 1281218778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(slight possible exception: DC and AC work very differently) < 1281218800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High clock frequencies are *hard*. And the Pentium 4 managed to nearly top out on practical CPU clock frequency. < 1281218857 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281218884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still, a) a lot of current software can't make easy use of multiple cores b) many tasks can't be parralellised very easy. Sure you can still run several of them at once, but sometimes you might only need one and you would prefer that getting done faster < 1281218889 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-4-195.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281218928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Beats me < 1281218930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guarantee you run multiple programs at once. < 1281218931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in /etc/hosts does the preferred hostname come first or last? < 1281218972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an example that is actually on topic, consider esolang interpreters. Specifically something like "running a bf program". You can probably split part of the optimising of the program in multiple threads (though some will depend on the inferred state at the end of the previous section and so on), but running it? no? < 1281218981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I guarantee you run multiple programs at once. <-- again I never claimed anything else < 1281218981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it have localhost and localhost.localdomain by default < 1281218991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: plus "myhost" < 1281219005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've removed "localhost.localdomain" < 1281219018 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess localhost would be preferred of those two, anyway < 1281219019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you mean your BF interp doesn't autoparallelize loops? < 1281219023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can say that my computer is currently mostly idle. I'm using irc, and htop. Then there is a number of stuff like udevd, various kernel processes, and what not running < 1281219027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the FSF itself doesn't understand the GDFL. Nice. < 1281219048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that could be done, but there are lots of programs that would gain nothing from it < 1281219048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1281219049 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird.. with their demo batch it works great, but with my own photos, hugin didn't work at all < 1281219061 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you get it to turn out so well? < 1281219062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *GFDL? < 1281219068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand it relatively well < 1281219087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh my god amazing idea < 1281219088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because I used to be a Wikipedia admin, partly because I've used it myself for things that it's actually vaguely appropriate for < 1281219090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt parallelising loops < 1281219094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to work on The Ultimate BF optimiser :D < 1281219101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1281219115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could do /all/ polynomialised loops like that, I think < 1281219126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1281219139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you parallelize a polynomialised loop? < 1281219139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, lets take [->++>+++<<] and for the moment ignore that this could be turned into a simple p[1]=p[0]*2; p[2]=p[0]*3;p[0]=0; < 1281219142 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281219153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just polynomialise it instead < 1281219154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, the FSF apparently told WP to ask their attorney. < 1281219163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean [ [...polynomial loop...] ] < 1281219169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281219170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which turns into [ some polynomial ] < 1281219177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure you could run those in parallel < 1281219179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all three written values would be in same cache line with high probability. Sure they might be split across two, but probably won't be < 1281219179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: too be fair, the WP's attorney is Mike Godwin < 1281219190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to be fair < 1281219192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, really? :D < 1281219196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that Godwin < 1281219201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godwin as in the Law? < 1281219202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as I said, lets ignore that for the moment: you'd just polynomialise it instead < 1281219204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the FSF probably just decided he was the best person < 1281219205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yep < 1281219209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow... < 1281219215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, argh the lag < 1281219219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``I request that the court consider the fact that the vandal, WillyOnWheels, has several similarities to the Nazis and indeed Hitler.'' < 1281219220 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1281219226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" you'd just polynomialise it instead" to " Godwin as in the Law?" showed up in 1 second < 1281219227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, will he be comparing the CIA to Nazis < 1281219229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1281219258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godwin never stated that all comparisions to Nazis are accurate < 1281219262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would he use one? < 1281219269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hur wat is joek < 1281219278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your honour, someone else didn't allow us to use our logo. They were the Nazis. The defence rests." < 1281219285 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/our/their/ < 1281219337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``The defence rests ON THE JUSTICE OF THIS COURT, which is so unlike many courts which are not justful. Do you know what one of those courts was? That's right. The court of the NAZIS.'' < 1281219338 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1281219366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, easy on the backquotes. < 1281219375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So, will he be comparing the CIA to Nazis <-- ?? < 1281219392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it must be awful to be Mike Godwin < 1281219393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But ``fag quotes'' work perfectly with the right console font! < 1281219396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: XD < 1281219398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have people do this sort of thing everywhere you go < 1281219398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have I missed here < 1281219403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, CIA sues WP for using their logo thing. WP's attorney is Godwin. < 1281219408 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fill in blanks. < 1281219409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ITYM ``awesome'' < 1281219410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *FBI < 1281219411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281219425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FBIAC < 1281219428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same difference < 1281219436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB? Pah. < 1281219437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godwin's response was awesome < 1281219440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme lilo. < 1281219443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIVE ME LILO < 1281219454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LILO: The best thing since sliced lilo! < 1281219460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you're turning into a stereotyped Gentoo user... < 1281219468 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, It's a bootloader. You use it for what, 3 seconds? < 1281219468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1281219478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen a gentoo user claim that lilo was better than grub < 1281219480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1281219482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: THOSE ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT 3 SECONDS OF MY LIFE. < 1281219487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, any actual gentoo user < 1281219490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, a stereotypical AliseLinux OS < 1281219492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user < 1281219497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1281219497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1281219497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseLinux OS, how redundant < 1281219499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like PCLinuxOS < 1281219509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, but it's still an option on Gentoo. :) < 1281219517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Linux-based operating system that runs on your personal computer! We have our brand name! < 1281219520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, PCLinuxOS for Personal Computers you mean? < 1281219532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is it? huh < 1281219540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I thought it was elilo that was < 1281219554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, straight Lilo is still in Portage. < 1281219557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy enough to uninstall GRUB, right? < 1281219558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1281219574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Gentoo does not install a bootloader by default. < 1281219583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how do you load it by default? < 1281219583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is this still on arch? < 1281219585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious now < 1281219602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, while on livecd, you install one? < 1281219610 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281219612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ... can uninstall GRUB, right? :D < 1281219615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: boring < 1281219616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1281219619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1281219640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since you install by extracting tarball, editing a bit in /etc, then chrooting and installing one for each package where multiple alternatives exist < 1281219644 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-4-195.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281219650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as dhcp client, boot loader, and so on < 1281219654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders how Ubuntu would react to "sudo aptitude remove grub" or whatever the package is < 1281219656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you build kernel there too < 1281219683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch installed. < 1281219690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" < 1281219690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, grub has priority: optional < 1281219712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however, it seems linux-image depends on grub < 1281219714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that implies it's not part of a default install < 1281219717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, recommends < 1281219719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1281219723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1281219726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1281219743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't got grub installed. < 1281219748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has < 1281219750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have grub-pc. < 1281219768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't have any depends on grub... just recommends and suggests < 1281219771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how interesting < 1281219788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, I'm not going to test anything. I don't have a boot cd handy < 1281219791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1281219794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at hotel < 1281219800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, depending on a particular bootloader strikes me as crazy < 1281219812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh but grub provides a virtual < 1281219814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should anything care about the specific bootloader used, apart from bootloader modules (if such things exist)? < 1281219819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the virtual makes a lot more sense < 1281219820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but aptitude claims nothing depends on the virtual < 1281219821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281219834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, why on earth would you write "this program depends on some bootloader"? < 1281219839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is the virtual marked as essential? < 1281219842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281219843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and thus a dependency of /everything/)? < 1281219845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1281219851 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281219857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-boot-loader < 1281219864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find if it is essential or not < 1281219872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :info doesn't show it < 1281219891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can virtuals even be essential? < 1281219903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually, it being essential would be silly < 1281219910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, think of stuff like chroot installs < 1281219917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or xen (not sure how that boots) < 1281219923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1281219933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"depends on some bootloader" would only really make sense for init < 1281219937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't needed in a chroot either < 1281219944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, linux-image < 1281219947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense there too < 1281219950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a recommends however < 1281219959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux bootloaders recommend linux? < 1281219961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or vice versa? < 1281219972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-image recommends grub < 1281219975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell < 1281219988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, freebsd jails (glorified and more secure chroots) run an init inside each jail < 1281219996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally it's a case of depending on something in general and something in particular < 1281219998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as a parenthesis < 1281220011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like C-INTERCAL depending on "gcc or a C compiler" < 1281220025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-image-2.6.32-24-generic recommends "grub-pc | grub | lilo (>= 19.1)" < 1281220027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to suggest that gcc is the right compiler to install if there isn't one already, but any C compiler can be used if there is one < 1281220067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what about coreboot? you wouldn't use grub then. Or booting linux stored in a NOR flash < 1281220084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders if there's a difference between NOR flash and NAND flash < 1281220088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than, you know, logic levels < 1281220102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, iirc you can't get execute-in-place for NAND < 1281220134 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-195.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281220140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, quoting WP: "the interface provided for reading and writing the memory is different (NOR allows random-access for reading, NAND allows only page access)" < 1281220183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so it's a case of the names describing a lot that's irrelevant to the actual names < 1281220184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as usual < 1281220195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "NOR and NAND flash get their names from the structure of the interconnections between memory cells.[16] In NOR flash, cells are connected in parallel to the bitlines, allowing cells to be read and programmed individually. The parallel connection of cells resembles the parallel connection of transistors in a CMOS NOR gate. In NAND flash, cells are connected in series, resembling a NAND gate." < 1281220208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The series connections consume less space than parallel ones, reducing the cost of NAND flash. It does not, by itself, prevent NAND cells from being read and programmed individually." < 1281220216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it seems it isn't actual NOR and NAND < 1281220232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's based on half of the usual implementations in terms of FETs < 1281220242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1281220250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe even the entire thing if you're going open-drain < 1281220281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, while I understand every word of what you just said, I do not understand the whole thing... < 1281220302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wouldn't open-drain consume quite a bit of power? < 1281220320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily < 1281220337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it does use higher power than the usual logic levels < 1281220403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also WP: "In flash memory, each memory cell resembles a standard MOSFET, except the transistor has two gates instead of one." < 1281220946 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh hugin keeps shrinking my image < 1281220951 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to overrride? < 1281221139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? You can specify any pixel-width you like in the stitching window. < 1281221173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it shrinks in the preview, it means the optimizer thinks the field-of-view is smaller than what it was. < 1281221261 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1281221263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that "calculate optimal size" button which makes it calc pixel size for the output so that its resolution approximately matches the source images. < 1281221294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the scrollbars in the preview control the fov. < 1281221712 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to invent a 'patamagician class in Dungeons&Dragons < 1281221967 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain TeX is more better than LaTeX! I have used both, and I have concluded that Plain TeX is more better. In addition, cross-references can be done in Plain TeX without needing auxiliary files or two passes. < 1281222013 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'patamagician? < 1281222065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the impression alise missed stuff in Spaced < 1281222082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check when I get home < 1281222157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the attempted jump to Epsilion Eridani occured too soon < 1281222160 0 :alise!~ehird@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281222177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xorg 1.8: "We made hotplugging and automatic hardware detection work. Like, actually really honest-to-godly work." < 1281222188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, and NO MORE FUCKING .FDI." < 1281222202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+++++ would buy again < 1281222203 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spaced? < 1281222208 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, it is my idea, 'patamagician class. Some of its features are both spontaneous and prepared casting (but less slots than normal, even in total), a null metamagic feat, extra 'patamagic uses, and cantripology (when you run out of all slots (both prepared and spontaneous), of all levels, you can get one free 0-level slot costing 1 XP) < 1281222213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Wat < 1281222221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1281222229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1281222421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, anyone know of a Linux browser that isn't naff? ...Yeah, didn't think so. < 1281222433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Linux// < 1281222436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See Phantom_Hoover, I said ``naff'' instead of ``sucky''. < 1281222440 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "naff" means? < 1281222440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, web browsers suck universally. < 1281222442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That too. s/ / /. < 1281222447 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes I agree < 1281222450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: British slang for "kind of rubbish". < 1281222460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software, really, sucks universally. < 1281222464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Something naff is... ineffectual, useless; like "crappy" but more... bleh-y. < 1281222477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Be careful! Phantom_Hoover will DESTROY your negativity with a Care Bear stare. < 1281222507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I get the impression alise missed stuff in Spaced < 1281222507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'll check when I get home < 1281222507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think the attempted jump to Epsilion Eridani occured too soon < 1281222510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AFK < 1281222527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I did < 1281222530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I corrected it < 1281222532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see my lastest link < 1281222537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed one chapter out < 1281222543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFK < 1281222592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Spac\'ed (I dunno how to do the rightwards-pointing accent in the Linux console...) is the second major story-arc of the Ed stories. < 1281222601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/ed, or see the logs for my nicely-typeset PDF. < 1281222615 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ig < 1281222617 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1281222644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm... how is Konqueror these days? < 1281222654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1281222657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs Midori < 1281222663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you disable some toolbar icons it's... usable. < 1281222708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also like to note that pekwm is a pretty nice window manager. < 1281222820 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281223263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, pikhq. If GTK et al are rendering UI elements and text in bitmap fonts, what does that mean? < 1281223268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have non-bitmap fonts installed. < 1281223312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. I dunno. < 1281223313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually /no I don't/. < 1281223319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd do it. < 1281223325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch is really a bit anal with the "DO NOT INCLUDE ANYTHING IN PACKAGES! ANYTHING!!!!" thing. < 1281223326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAA http://www.firstpersontetris.com/ < 1281223340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Just from the URL: <3<3<3 < 1281223372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281223382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION "sacrifices the present at the altar of the future" by installing the bitstream fonts < 1281223414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's flash < 1281223474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've installed Linux Libertine. I guess I have to tell something that's my default font now, huh? < 1281223499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And AFK soon forreal < 1281223523 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281223538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: interestingly, that fact never crossed my mind. but then i was seriously dizzy most of the time. < 1281223568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use FlashBlock, so I immediately notice < 1281223618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Linux Biolinium O. Yeeeees <3 < 1281223660 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281223789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sadly, Linux Biolinium is not finished. < 1281223897 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( FlashBlock < 1281223897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But it IS hot. < 1281223906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, OMG GTK+ THEMES STOP SUCKING. < 1281223959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1281223959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The hinting sucks though. < 1281224081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux botulinum < 1281224123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there no nice monospaced fonts/ < 1281224123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the _final_ operating system < 1281224244 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281224424 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1281224431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux Bio-linoleum; the environmentally conscious, yet cheap and durable operating system. < 1281224453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does that weird snorty laugh thing < 1281224539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a font? < 1281224561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reason for it being called _Linux_ Biolinum in particular? < 1281224573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it's for Linux. < 1281224579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is it called Grotesque < 1281224581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume. < 1281224592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, typography people have awesome terminology. < 1281224626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise gave me a list of the proper terms for points. They're fantastic. < 1281224631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grotesque should be something with tentacles perfect for printing lovecraft stories < 1281224651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 pt: paragon < 1281224655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A sans serif style with moderate stroke contrast and modern proportions particular to the U.K. Usually features a two-story lowercase g, closed strokes (usually curving in slightly) on C and S, and a sloped, non-cursive italic. Classic example: Bureau Grot." < 1281224742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What typeface do the examples in http://typedia.com/learn/only/anatomy-of-a-typeface/ use? < 1281224744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks nice < 1281224842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is the tail in R decorative < 1281224866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, the tail of that R was nice and curved in the input box. Too bad the .. chat thingy uses a different font < 1281224964 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1281224986 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence "decorative". < 1281225008 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, why aren't there any nice monospace fonts? < 1281225083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly, monospace fonts that handle funny characters elegantly. < 1281225207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have no idea what a Foundry is < 1281225223 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that some fonts are either missing them or missing information on them on Typedia < 1281225423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A type foundry creates fonts. < 1281225431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, typefaces. < 1281225441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence FontForge? < 1281225471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To install fonts on Ubuntu I simply copy them into ~/.fonts, right? < 1281225677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1281225770 0 :alise!~ehird@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281225773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTFFFFF < 1281225778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTK doesn't respect fontconfig, seemingly. < 1281225784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, it does, just not local.conf. Or, ... what??? < 1281225803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wants Xft configuration instead, seemingly. < 1281225820 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do you know of any nice monospace fonts? < 1281225854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A few... < 1281225888 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name! < 1281225895 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1281225920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: All-time favourite would be OS X's Monaco. DejaVu Sans Mono is pretty good, you know, in the acceptable kind of way. < 1281225931 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281225942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luxi Mono is quite nice if you'd like a serifed monospace font. < 1281225959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consolas is wonderful, but less-so outside of Windows. < 1281225971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inconsolata's nice. < 1281225977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's so boring. < 1281225990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not a bad thing. < 1281225998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but, really, it's so boring. < 1281226012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate this family < 1281226040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's highly readable. Which is pretty much the only thing I care about in a monospace font. < 1281226044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo has such a great family life < 1281226057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Droid Sans Mono is good but I can't distinguish it from DejaVu Sans Mono. < 1281226063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, when do we get DejaVu Serif Mono? < 1281226080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah. Droid is fatter and less tall than DejaVu. An improvement. < 1281226083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is no physical abuse, so that's at least something to be happy about < 1281226115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Except that Droid Sans Mono also has CJK support. < 1281226133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Pretty baseline conditions there. :/ < 1281226138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That too. < 1281226158 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281226349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay pekwm. < 1281226649 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the 'patamagician class: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Patamagician.c (Is it good?) < 1281226675 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "cromulent" must be used more. < 1281226694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No. It just embiggens people's reference-peen. < 1281226793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do *you* want to use the word "cromulent" use more? < 1281226844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/cyk1s/mathematicians_of_reddit_question_about_prime/c0w810t < 1281226851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel dumber for having read that < 1281226866 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like a 'patamagician class in D&D game? < 1281226866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I haven't obviously < 1281226880 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who has +o in here? < 1281226883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I've read that, it's obviously a jumble of buzzwords < 1281226888 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: who has +o < 1281226899 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1281226920 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That comment in Reddit is not make sensable! < 1281226968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281227022 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quantum entanglement is unrelated. < 1281227078 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: You can modify the topic message without +o in this channel < 1281227150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: why? < 1281227173 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i want to paste an age old IRC exploit to kick those who have an old client but I don't want to be perceived as malicious < 1281227185 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281227186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: just do it. this channel is a de facto anarchy < 1281227193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why you want to do it < 1281227194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Then post it to external URL and post the URL here. < 1281227195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but feel free < 1281227201 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: makes no sense < 1281227206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual ops are lament, fizzie, oerjan < 1281227210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan never, ever uses ops < 1281227212 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: whereas #ranarchism is a de jure anarchy! < 1281227222 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay well lament is probably okay with me doing it < 1281227223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie kicks obvious trolls after years of debate and then feels bad about it < 1281227224 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCC SEND "fixyourclient" 0 0 0 < 1281227225 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281227232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament only uses his op powers to further chaos and evil < 1281227232 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad only one down < 1281227235 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fix your own client, Quadrescence < 1281227242 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281227254 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Why did you send DCC SEND "fixyourclient" to the channel < 1281227255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: RAN archism? < 1281227265 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i just explained < 1281227267 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /r/anarchism < 1281227271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1281227276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Warrigal's using an old client? < 1281227290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try and see. < 1281227294 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In my computer, any IRC channels hosted there other than &SERVER do not even support +o (or any other modes), because of how I configured it) < 1281227295 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I using an old client? < 1281227297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1281227302 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: yes go fix it < 1281227306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION abc < 1281227308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1281227309 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see watch I will kick you again < 1281227314 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCC SEND "warrigal" 0 0 0 < 1281227314 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281227317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha sweet < 1281227323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will now have endless fun with this < 1281227328 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so funny when someone does it in #ubuntu < 1281227330 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so that is how you do it < 1281227345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My client does nothing other than display the DCC SEND < 1281227346 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they go to DEFCON 1 when it happens < 1281227349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is safe < 1281227353 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes it is < 1281227359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal's still insine < 1281227361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: can i do that without connecting raw? < 1281227362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with irssi < 1281227369 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: this is annoying. stop it. < 1281227374 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what < 1281227380 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what is annoying < 1281227380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can just specifically target warrigal now < 1281227384 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your DCC shit < 1281227388 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what about it < 1281227390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: augur is probably set to go DING DING DING every time you dcc < 1281227395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also augur thinks he's an op < 1281227395 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahaha < 1281227403 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DING DING DING < 1281227412 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesnt ping, it just pops up a window showing the DCC requests < 1281227424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even worse < 1281227427 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur plz don't be mad and fix your client < 1281227430 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I will do it to you more < 1281227449 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: go do it in #ubuntu < 1281227450 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My client simply displays the DCC SEND in red, inline together with all the other messages (which are normally blue). < 1281227459 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah you're ok < 1281227466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: what command, without manually connecting? < 1281227471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how long will i be banned for? < 1281227481 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it matter? aren't you quitting uboob anyway? < 1281227482 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Probably it depends what client you are using? < 1281227487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quitting, i quit it all the time < 1281227490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i end up using it again < 1281227507 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: All I do is paste it, including the NULL or whatever at the start (probably not a NULL but whatever) < 1281227515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'll slap you if you intefere with anyone who needs to get help < 1281227529 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hay, why is your name "alise!~ehird" < 1281227533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't mean I won't enjoy seeing it happen < 1281227538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god I just flipped my screen upside down < 1281227541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love xrandr < 1281227542 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281227550 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I didn't know this version of irssi was an old client. < 1281227551 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: did you fix < 1281227562 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. What version of irssi do I have? < 1281227571 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.4 < 1281227574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One vulnerable to some exploid < 1281227576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exploit < 1281227577 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just disable receiving DCC SEND in your client? < 1281227631 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irssi tells me it's version 0.8.15, which appears to be the newest version. < 1281227647 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how to send that kind of DCC SEND in my client, simply type DCC SEND "fixyourclient" 0 0 0 < 1281227660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But most clients do not do it this way. < 1281227684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, sloppy focus, howsabout it. < 1281227695 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no < 1281227701 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need that extra character < 1281227704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What client is zzo38 using? < 1281227707 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before DCC < 1281227739 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why don't you check what client? Using CTRL+A VERSION command to check? < 1281227749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: What extra character? < 1281227762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHIRC? < 1281227766 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1281227799 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's an invisible/unicode character. If you have proper fonts it'll show up as a box or a square with numbers < 1281227838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: you misunderstand. < 1281227849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: in zzo38's client, literally inserts ^A. < 1281227854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., the CTCP character. < 1281227855 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh okay < 1281227859 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good < 1281227860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because zzo38 wrote his own client in php and it is basically raw. < 1281227864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and insane) < 1281227869 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1281227887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaat xsetroot sucks < 1281227913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Brits, we're talking about mathematicians in this thread. Do you know what a mathematician is? That's not a physicist (Penrose), a computer geek (Lovelace, Babbage, Turing), or a political hack (Russell)." < 1281227936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did he just call Bertrand a political hack? < 1281227947 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conservapedia.com/Talk:Essay:Best_New_Conservative_Words#Decrypt < 1281227952 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the is simply a shortcut to send a message to the current channel, if a space is typed at the beginning of the current line, it will automatically type in "PRIVMSG #esoteric :" on the command line, which can be backspaced as normal, and so on) < 1281227958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Conservapedia. < 1281227959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then. < 1281228053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My client also does syntax highlighting of everything sent/received < 1281228069 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what syntax? < 1281228076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: IRC syntax < 1281228116 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: lmfao what is this < 1281228117 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281228118 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1281228121 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conservapedia < 1281228122 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1281228171 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1281228173 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conservapedia < 1281228177 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bastion for all idiots in the world < 1281228186 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of them are trolls, half of them are serious, and you cannot tell the difference < 1281228251 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats hilarious < 1281228326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEKWM: HAHAHA I AM TABBING WINDOWS BY DRAGGING THEM < 1281228345 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925351791.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1281228458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan never, ever uses ops <-- hey, i _did_ ban fax < 1281228475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i didn't realise that was you < 1281228479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I feel dumber for having read that <-- that comment was nonsense < 1281228481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough then < 1281228488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I eventually realized < 1281228514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, fax was banned? < 1281228523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1281228527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for being completely insane < 1281228555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to the point of spamming the channel with "FUCK YOU" for dozens of lines just because... uh, I think Phantom_Hoover took more than a few minutes to reply to s/h(it)'s message) < 1281228612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers in English class in 7th grade, "I you he/she/it" and someone said "I you he shit" < 1281228626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/h(it) is oerjan's invention < 1281228653 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at his ignore list. < 1281228676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, am I still on it? < 1281228693 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, fax is fucking nuts < 1281228703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite LITERALLY! < 1281228715 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: get this < 1281228732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting it. < 1281228732 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she /ignored me < 1281228741 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently because i told you she's a she < 1281228745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She? Are you implying that she's TRANSGENDER? She'll flip out about that, you know! < 1281228755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It" is the only safe option here, really. < 1281228771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, alise is wondering if he's still on your ignore list < 1281228796 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he isn't. < 1281228823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, Sgeo is letting you know that alise is wondering if he's still on your ignore list < 1281228848 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me know if alise asks me anything else. < 1281228866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: wat < 1281228884 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, alise is informing you that Sgeo is letting you know that alise is wondering if he's still on your ignore list. < 1281228902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is blinking < 1281228910 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1281228922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: I have this sneaking suspicion that I am on that list. < 1281228968 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, if alise were on my /ignore list, I might say that he's not, just to make him feel better. < 1281228971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Warrigal, did you say that alise isn't on that list, or that alise isn't wondering < 1281228973 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does ignore lists also cause auto-reply things to be ignored? < 1281228984 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that alise isn't on that list. < 1281228990 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Such as CTRL+A VERSION and CTRL+A TIME and so on) < 1281229003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I am on Warrigal's ignore list. < 1281229013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: You do know that I can read that, right :D < 1281229021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From now on, I will be exclusively speaking through alise < 1281229027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s/h(it) is oerjan's invention <-- it's supposed to be (s)h/it < 1281229029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure thing bro. < 1281229034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well you're supposed to be HUH. < 1281229113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not agree with everything in the conservative words list, but I partially agree with a few of the comments there, but not fully. But there may be some things incorrect listed there, even if they say it is correct < 1281229120 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I could pull that off, though. If I really could see what alise was saying, it would probably be pretty obvious. < 1281229143 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, wait, I got confused there. < 1281229157 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to say, if I really *couldn't* see what alise was saying, it would probably be pretty obvious. < 1281229160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could always logread to see what alise is saying < 1281229163 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though if I could, that would also be pretty obvious. < 1281229167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good *God*. Palm used Palm OS up until *2009*. < 1281229188 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah. alise, it should be obvious whether you're on my ignore list or not. < 1281229192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think he's enjoying being passive-aggressive more. < 1281229196 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My phone is a Palm OS device. < 1281229198 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am. < 1281229216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, such a clever ruse. < 1281229225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This I did not anticipate. < 1281229226 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1281229240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My monocle poppeth out. < 1281229243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: also i recall the particular thing causing fax to break completely was someone telling em "You fail at life". in a discussion about the _game_ of life. < 1281229267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he was always broken, just most of the shards hit other places first < 1281229277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell happened to fax anyways? < 1281229287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hasn't seen em since < 1281229291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers yelling at fax when fax pretended to be clueless with Haskell < 1281229293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he "changed gender" (DON'T SAY THAT HE'LL KILL YOU) and went off his rocker < 1281229293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i haven't < 1281229298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when he was male he was ... insane, but, you know < 1281229300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to MissPiggy? < 1281229303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: = fax < 1281229306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1281229306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := soupdragon < 1281229310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := crazy-ass bitch < 1281229313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, I mean, I am literally clueless as to anything odd about fax at all. < 1281229326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Log links or something? < 1281229326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Um. Basically he started calling everyone cunts if you just ignored him for a second < 1281229336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did something which made him think you were stupid (even just giving a tiny piece of advice he disliked) < 1281229341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow I missed all this. < 1281229343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he regularly spammed the channel if he was being ignored or whatever < 1281229347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :held tons of grudges against people < 1281229351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then would whine at them for ignoring him < 1281229354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he's not been in my ignore list. < 1281229358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1281229361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the hell? < 1281229371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: grep (MissPiggy|soupdragon|fax).* in recent logs < 1281229374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy the insanity < 1281229384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah why do gtk themes suck. < 1281229391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Morphic! < 1281229407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not _that_ recent, from this year though < 1281229435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Raleigh wasn't so damn ugly. < 1281229471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to make Raleigh less 3D? < 1281229476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be searchable logs for #esoteric. < 1281229492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There's Gregor's secret mirror. < 1281229497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Secret because it takes ages to check out.) < 1281229517 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281229540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are... world sauna championships? < 1281229579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I managed to miss this at a time I literally was doing nothing. Wow. < 1281229638 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh heh, fax said string theory is wrong because it predicts more than 3 dimensions. < 1281229643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Yes. < 1281229647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was I online? < 1281229648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said it was just "plain wrong" because KLEIN BOTTLES. < 1281229656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, he claimed he had a proof for the existence of god < 1281229657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This proof? < 1281229660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Watch a plant grow". < 1281229665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not exaggerating, I swear on my life. < 1281229668 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awwwwww < 1281229672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linky please? < 1281229672 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's adorable. < 1281229676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find that log and read it and you will lose all religious faith because /God would not allow anyone to be so stupid/. < 1281229679 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *is* adorable. < 1281229680 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adorable in a pathetic, sad kind of way. < 1281229699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: we kept telling him that it wasn't an argument and he basically started yelling "PLANTS!!!!!" < 1281229711 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION greps his secret logs :P < 1281229715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he just went psycho < 1281229722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants searchable online logs < 1281229729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if he's schizophrenic? < 1281229732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There are... world sauna championships? <-- so i seem to recall < 1281229735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you ever objected to any sort of religiouslyness or god thing like someone mentioning god gratuitously in a "mathematical" "paper" (ultrafinitism HEM HEM) < 1281229740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd go "oh you're one of THOSE atheists" < 1281229743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOSE atheists = atheists < 1281229750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: He probably is. < 1281229756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In fact, let's just go out and say he is. < 1281229771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -chime This option indicates that the clock should chime once on the < 1281229771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : half hour and twice on the hour. < 1281229773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xclock, fuck yeah < 1281229778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should feel sympathy for him if he is. Try to get him to seek treatment or something < 1281229792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, we really shouldn't. Besides he talked about seeing psychologists and shit < 1281229797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they "just let him go" < 1281229805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, even without schizophrenia he'd be an asshole < 1281229807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sympathy < 1281229812 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't generally object to stuff like gratuitous God mentioning. < 1281229825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to object back in 11th-12th grade < 1281229837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: but this was a "paper" which started off like "I don't dislike infinity, I love it, I love it, I love God and his Glory and what he has Given us and and ..." < 1281229841 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1281229841 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1281229841 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281229845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone fixes something on the teacher's computer, teacher goes "Thank God!", I say that it wasn't god... < 1281229846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hand me a day if you find it. < 1281229848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...but mathematics is broken because exponentiation isn't total" (this was the actual argument) < 1281229853 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NO. MINE. < 1281229855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it argued that "exponentiation is total" was an unfounded belief) < 1281229864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah I was like "this is just some religious crap and then some bullshit" < 1281229866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is manually grepping logs for relevant conversations < 1281229867 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, you mean a day with fax crazitude. < 1281229873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281229874 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah, that's a bit overly gratuitous. < 1281229876 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just found where 'e was banned. < 1281229879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GIVE ME THAT DAY!" < 1281229921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Two Minutes Hate is going great, public opinion of Eurasia^Wfax has never been so low. < 1281229944 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing everyone hates fax now. I can't imagine what we'd do if we didn't all hate him. < 1281229948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have _always_ been at war with fax < 1281229952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still wants a link < 1281229968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what'll happen if he reads that < 1281229971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: DO YOU KNOW WHO ELSE WANTED A LINK? < 1281229972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAX! < 1281229986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And isn't it Emmanuel Goldstein that was hated in the 2min of hate? < 1281229986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: He will climb into our windows at night and brutally rape-murder us.* < 1281229987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mmm. < 1281229989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I'm not sure I'm joking. < 1281230008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, yeah, we're at war with Eurasia^HEastasia^HEurasia < 1281230015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^WOceania < 1281230027 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're at war with EurasiEastasiEurasia? >.> < 1281230036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a foreign name. < 1281230041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign like NAZISM. < 1281230063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: there was a really _messy_ unification. philologically, at least. < 1281230099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And phonologically... < 1281230124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phonogilly < 1281230161 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I write Linux distribution I put my own "decoration" package, which is very simple and has only three things: analog clock (instead of xclock), xeye (instead of xeyes), and screen saver (with several modes, such as variations of munching squares display hack, analog clock, digital clock, arbritrary text, blank screen, status screen) < 1281230181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No love for xscreensaver? < 1281230202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No love for xscreensaver? < 1281230204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops. < 1281230433 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281230436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts seeing the crazy < 1281230437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1281230450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:26:19 alise why the fuck would you steal mathematica < 1281230452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1281230463 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other screen saver modes can include: dim screen, cellular automata, distribution logo, and energy saver. < 1281230470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be enough screen saver modes < 1281230527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: actually he then qualified it by saying it was because mathematica is shit xD < 1281230534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he hated wolfram haters < 1281230543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unity/gtk-kde4 0.9.4-1 < 1281230543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :community/gtk-rezlooks-engine 0.6-9 < 1281230543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Clean looking gtk theme engine based on the cairo-enabled CVS clearlooks engine code. < 1281230546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky ~]$ gtk-chtheme < 1281230548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gtk-chtheme:2033): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed < 1281230549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1281230559 0 :alise!~ehird@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281230564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1281230566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did not intend < 1281230569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's fax's reddit page: http://www.reddit.com/user/cwcc < 1281230575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more fun fun fun < 1281230576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU NEVER INTEND < 1281230584 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The text in arbitrary text mode and status display mode could be adjusted by manipulating files in the process's /9p/ directory < 1281230625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax hated wikipedia btw < 1281230628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a passion < 1281230638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it would seem fax has disappeared from reddit too, then? or maybe he was banned. < 1281230652 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is a idea of my Linux distribution (ArcaneLinux) that every process will have a /proc/[ID]/9p/ directory which is a file system by the program, if the program does not handle it, any accesses to the /9p/ directory will return a "device is busy" message or "no disk in drive" message) < 1281230657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he killed himself. or moved on to another personality < 1281230698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hm < 1281230725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is presently on freenode as soupdragon < 1281230816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know an IM client that isn't Pidgin? < 1281230831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281230869 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know, I wanted to include some different IM protocol features into PHIRC, so if anyone wants to write the protocol plugins you can do so < 1281230891 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion of the ArcaneLinux process /9p/ directory idea? < 1281230899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's an idea. < 1281230989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: He really sucks at English. < 1281231000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah that is a common trait of insane cranks. < 1281231121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1281231156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"do u no c++" "I wish I didn't "But I could write in C++ if I had a gun up to my head" < 1281231159 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program "xeye" just can set -b (background color) -f (foreground color) -t (thickness) -a (always on top) -d (do not turn off borders from window manager), and then waits for coordinates from stdin, each line is X-coordinate, Y-coordinate, radius, and then it draws that eye on the screen, at EOF it continues running until interrupted, but you can still make adjustments in the /9p/ directory < 1281231167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh, alt-right drag is so nice to resize windows. < 1281231177 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the program "xusb" can simply list connected USB devices. < 1281231185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why X usb? < 1281231193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be lsub. < 1281231197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is the graphical system. < 1281231216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds out why Sgeo was mentioning the sauna championship < 1281231217 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It would be the name, "xusb" is a program which lists USB devices in a window and updates it automatically. < 1281231221 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why. < 1281231223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, for programs like that, waiting from stdin is Bad. < 1281231230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should be command-line arguments in accordance with Unix design principles. < 1281231299 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did Squeak blocks not used to be lambdas, but now they are? < 1281231302 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ArcaneLinux design principles are different though, which is that everything can be piped, and so on, and everything else. If you have a list of eyes already and don't want to add more afterward, just redirect the input from a file instead? < 1281231313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They were always lambdas, as far as I know. < 1281231327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but they weren't always closures < 1281231333 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So by your definition... < 1281231342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They weren't? < 1281231354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want to ask in #squeak? < 1281231384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'll trust you. < 1281231425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It is much quiter in #esoteric when you're not around. < 1281231432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quieter, even. < 1281231434 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The other design principles of ArcaneLinux is don't add unnecessary icons and decorations and stuff to programs (except for decoration programs), and don't use GNU long options) < 1281231450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'll choose to take that as a compliment. :P < 1281231472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a while, I was the centre of the #haskell social graph thing they had auto-generated; basically it looked at who responded to who, and who talked most, etc. < 1281231485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was the biggest, most-connected and centre of the graph, despite not talking about actual Haskell much at all. < 1281231512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:30:32 * fax was getting along fine until people started being uppity /ignore users < 1281231515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1281231533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You are a man who makes conversation happen, I guess. :P < 1281231542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly useless conversation. < 1281231696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How-to-Do Girls - Bikini Calculus! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006U6KIK < 1281231718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wat. < 1281231762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chain rule is last on that list, but chain rule's rather easy, so... < 1281231771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but there's no bikinis. < 1281231788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In more advanced texts. < 1281231790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or DVDs. < 1281231841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No bikinis == good < 1281231940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't appreciate Bikini Calculus. < 1281231966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they've done bikini quantum mechanics too. with bras and kets. < 1281231984 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'd appreciate it more without the bikinis < 1281231987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1281232021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not. < 1281232046 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can we trick the beholder to cast the "hold monster" ray on themself, so that we can use the "modify memory" spell then, and somehow to convince everyone that the gods is dead? < 1281232123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-Bikini Calculus just doesn't have the same ring to it. < 1281232146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: depends how you interpret it. < 1281232150 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any opinion of the answer of my question? < 1281232163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Gee, you don't say. < 1281232210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bikini Algebra has a ring to it though. < 1281232233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits patiently < 1281232284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to laugh or groan. < 1281232289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Please wait forever. Your call is important to us. Push "0" for operator and then please wait even more forever, for listening to the operator, please. < 1281232312 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1281232313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is reading old channel logs for here amusing? < 1281232329 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because it has a lot of writing in it. < 1281232335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because we are awesome. < 1281232342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Things aren't amusing just because they have a lot of writing... < 1281232384 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, but it is, if it is amusing writing... < 1281232418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: spoilsport < 1281232482 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you print out a Whitespace or Unispace program, that does not have any comments, or header/footer, or web, that means that you can reuse the paper because it is still blank < 1281232595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes that the trick is in the eye of the beholder < 1281232644 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You are right, that is part of it. But it still doesn't help that is only a little bit idea < 1281232691 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(We have 2 monster characters in our party, that probably would help a bit?) < 1281232905 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281233164 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281233511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, why are there no simple GTK+ themes? < 1281234123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:03:15 Also I'd say that Japan imports less culture from other countries. < 1281234158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not true. A good 70% (number pulled out of rectum) of Japanese culture is imported. It's just morphed a hell of a lot after importation. < 1281234348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think OpenDNS is broken. < 1281234363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe not. < 1281234602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:01:37 sometimes i like to pretend pikhq never googles anything but actually just happens to know everything < 1281234606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only. < 1281234754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you ever googled you'd obviously have found that quote earlier < 1281234781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guh, gnome-look is down for me < 1281234842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could someone follow this through to the download link and mirror it somewhere? http://gnome-look.org/content/download.php?content=72622&id=1&tan=70966423&PHPSESSID=6f31a60dfebaf1952b9c0467602dbe38 < 1281234846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenDNS is being retarded. < 1281234972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switch to Google DNS? < 1281235159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Very no. < 1281235292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone do that mirroring? Anyone? :P < 1281235516 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281235821 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281235893 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281236736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1281236832 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281236844 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281238113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1281238552 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: does http://gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-files/72622-Awakened.tar.gz work? < 1281238936 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281239003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Linux Libertine is not so good when hinted. < 1281239802 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise! < 1281239859 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup kid < 1281240026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff < 1281240028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1281240029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281240227 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281240272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whyyy does freetype fail so much < 1281240357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because nothing free can be good < 1281240359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/troll < 1281240375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1281240381 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281240396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you troll, but oh, how true it seems < 1281240473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281240484 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281240493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you disable all hinting, it just looks like RISC OS. < 1281240712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb testing something < 1281240723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1281240866 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281240888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, you know how PC speaker beeps are redirected to the speakers nowadays? < 1281240893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, how do I disable that and just let the beep DIE? < 1281240899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1281240900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1281240905 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281240916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1281241766 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281242075 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the process /9p/ directory, if the program does not handle it, I read the opengroup list of errors I try to figure out which error it should be: ENODEV ENOSYS ENXIO < 1281242309 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you try to create a file there that the program it belongs to does not support (or modify an existing file in a non-supported way), should it return one of these errors? ENOSPC ENOSYS EROFS EACCES < 1281242364 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if the filesystem is only temporarily disabled due to the program doing something that should not be interrupted by calls to this file system, it could use EBUSY < 1281242409 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or if the process is stopped) < 1281242431 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281242455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing. < 1281242466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For try to create a file there that the program it belongs to does not support, there is one more error code I forgot: EPERM < 1281242471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Testing is OK. < 1281242474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that hasn't worked. < 1281242484 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What did you testing? < 1281242488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stuff." < 1281242492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Text rendering sucks everywhere outside of TeX. Just accept it or kill yourself. < 1281242492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freetype stuff < 1281242501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's marginally acceptable on OS X... < 1281242504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With an Apple display.) < 1281242523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. Apple was obsessed with getting it right so it doesn't suck much there. < 1281242533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, we can't just go with Display TeX. < 1281242544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :D WHY NOT < 1281242553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Why not indeed. < 1281242581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing again < 1281242583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1281242589 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281242591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ew ew ew. < 1281242598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay; subpixel rendering is OUT. < 1281242599 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For displaying text on screen that isn't a print preview, just simple bitmap fonts will do, I think < 1281242628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm actually halfway to just going with http://sharpfonts.co.cc/; at least it'd just be ugly, rather than *actively hurting* my eyes. < 1281242634 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monospace will do for on screen text in many cases < 1281242675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Unfortunately, slight-hinted greyscale text is ... well, blurry. < 1281242705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a more upbeat tone, I managed to make a GTK+ theme that sucks less than the other ones. < 1281242713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took Mist and changed the colours. It's now GreyMist. Guess what colours it uses. < 1281242733 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it use grey? < 1281242741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONGRATULATIONS! < 1281242749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You deduced the answer successfully! < 1281242842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs ROX Filer. < 1281242866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The /only/ file manager that doesn't suck. Probably. < 1281243043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I've got to say, the DejaVu fonts are nice on screen with the actual TTF hinting running. < 1281243068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281243082 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281243096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. I'm running the only thing I can stand: wispy, badly-defined, fully-hinted, greyscale text. < 1281243128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What distro you on? < 1281243255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch. < 1281243262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I've tried the patched freetypes. < 1281243285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Being able to close a window in one click on the title bar: Dangerous, or hideously dangerous? < 1281243296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moderately dangerous. < 1281243307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll leave it at Win+Middleclick, then. < 1281243356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's just that I keep hitting Middleclick expecting it to close! < 1281243356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION closes alise by accident < 1281243357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I'll add it. < 1281243394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disconnecting soon < 1281243467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wow, click-to-focus seems so... static after sloppy focus. < 1281243534 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Smalltalk as your OS! < 1281243537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281243562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I just recommend pekwm+ROX-Filer+Midori as a nice desktop? < 1281243578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With my "bland" pekwm theme and "GreyMist" GTK+ theme, of course. >_> < 1281243884 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1281243960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Tempting. < 1281243968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you using for IRC and/or IM? < 1281243973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281243983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-Chat for IRC, Pidgin for IM. Yeah, they suck, but so does everything else. Easy enough to use irssi or whatever. < 1281244049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of IM? < 1281244054 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is an IM program < 1281244057 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*protocol < 1281244077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1281244084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM is more one-to-one. < 1281244111 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1281244450 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You can do one-to-one with IRC as well < 1281244457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but.. < 1281244461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but... < 1281244641 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a good assembly language? < 1281244655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you mean, architecture? < 1281244662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM < 1281244673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIPS < 1281244676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about it < 1281244679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIPS is simpler i think < 1281244686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, Gregor isn't doing jsARM < 1281244707 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIPSv1 is simpler than any ARM. I can't speak to later models. < 1281244713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1281244916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281244922 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281244932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I have tray icons and a clock now. < 1281244949 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I write file manager for my Linux distribution, I won't use ROX-Filer or any other. But instead, have it simply display a list of files (no icons or menus are visible), which can be typed by keyboard or selected by mouse, function keys and other keys can change sort and so on, and some keys do space-delimited copy to clipboard, newline-delimited copy to clipboard, select by wildcards, filter by wildcards, command entry, open command shell he < 1281244955 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc < 1281244980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re, and multi panes. < 1281245117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that good enough file-manager? < 1281245146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. < 1281245256 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another feature would be to return a newline-delimited list of the selected files when the file manager window is closed. < 1281245262 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, return it to stdout) < 1281245298 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this also a good feature, in your opinion? < 1281245310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... gues < 1281245311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guess < 1281245363 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are any of these things I have described about it, things you would use or are interested in, or other people who are interested in? < 1281245474 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There would be no menus, no toolbars, no icons for files, no context menus..... but there will be a status bar to indicate number selected, total size selected, current directory, current mode, and so on. < 1281245518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the three mouse buttons are used for different methods of selection, and also depending on single-click or double-click) < 1281245742 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And three display modes: "short mode" (like output of "ls" to a color terminal), "long mode" (like "ls -l"), and "gallery mode" (displays a grid of thumbnails of all pictures in the directory, and ignores all other files) < 1281245777 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gallery mode is the only mode that this program would display any graphics at all) < 1281245898 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are these all good ideas? Or are you differently? < 1281246109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm differently, but they are acceptable. < 1281246110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1281246111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1281246113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281246146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you still available and do you have opinion? < 1281246206 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm still single but I'm not really into long-distance relationships. < 1281246208 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no opinion. < 1281246265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, Gregor *is* perfectly open to same-sex relationships. < 1281246294 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a non-issue :P < 1281246328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He may well be implementing part of the plan for all geeks to get laid. < 1281246427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am open to asexuality because I am asexuality. I am not sexuality, and I am not homosexuality, and I am not heterosexuality. < 1281246480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congrats on not being abstract concepts. < 1281246488 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 to pikhq :P < 1281246504 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: While also being a particular abstract concept. < 1281246521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1281246571 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xeye [-i] [-b bgcolor] [-f fgcolor] [-t thickness] [-a] [-b] [-w intended_screen_width] [-h intended_screen_height] [< file] < 1281246646 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xaclock [-b bgcolor] [-f fgcolor] [-t thickness] [-a] [-b] [-x x_coordinate] [-y y_coordinate] [-r radius] [-w intended_screen_width] [-h intended_screen_height] [-z timezone] [-s] < 1281246682 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are these sensible to you? < 1281246733 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are two of the three "decoration programs" I plan to put in my Linux distribution (only these three, the third being the screen saver) < 1281246789 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is xeye the program formerly known as xeyes? < 1281246805 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ... cycloptic? < 1281246817 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, xeye is a new program that does something like xeyes < 1281246853 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It draws one eye for each line from stdin x,y,radius. < 1281246971 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it make sense? Does xaclock make sense? < 1281246991 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the purpose of the intended width/height attributes? < 1281247064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: To optionally synchronize with positions of a centered background picture (which are only potentially useful if you do not use the always-on-top option or the option to not suppress window borders) < 1281247120 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, if you have a background picture with a big monster with 17 eyes, and a clock on the wall in the background picture, you can include the parameters with it to make it work with these decorations even if your screen resolution is different < 1281247225 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Obviously it won't work if the perspective is wrong, but that is something you have to deal with, if you want xeye and xaclock to work with it, ensure to draw it with the correct perspectives!) < 1281247553 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need the -i option. Instead, just have xeye support comments in stdin with # at front, and #! beginning a multiline comment that ends with #? < 1281247633 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the -s (sound effects) option needs to take one parameter, which is the volume < 1281247846 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xalsave [-l] [-w timer] [-p] screen_saver_type [screen_saver_arguments...] < 1281247941 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen_saver_type: analog-clock, digital-clock, text, display-hack, blank, dim, status, cellular-automata, energy-saver < 1281248597 0 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-32-110.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281250441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://xplsv.com/prods/demos/xplsv_orsotheysay/ You may now feel inferior. < 1281250486 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This utterly frozen browser sure makes me feel inferior ... < 1281250503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome is needed. < 1281250510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or recent Firefox. < 1281250576 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, is this canvas or something more exotic? < 1281250589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://capped.tv/xplsv-or_so_they_say Or you could just watch a video of the same demo... < 1281250659 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This doesn't really make me feel inferior though :P < 1281250661 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics ain't my thing. < 1281250673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1281250709 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heww Urf < 1281250712 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hewwo < 1281252173 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281253429 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1281253827 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281254399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1281254400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1281254458 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281255984 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1281256034 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: bye < 1281256326 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dances < 1281256576 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Dancing because? < 1281256592 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im working on a linguistic command line < 1281256604 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the language module for it is coming along nicely < 1281256608 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on ... taking pictures of my eye :P < 1281256625 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can parse all English I assume? :P < 1281256668 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1281256673 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, itll be a fragment of english < 1281256680 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the crucial part is what you do with the parses < 1281256712 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesh < 1281256719 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Understanding English is good :P < 1281256730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language modules are supposed to transform (partial) sentences into key-value hashes that are used to represent commands to the command line < 1281256732 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance < 1281256768 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"move x to y" would be the command { pred: move, object: { pred: x }, to: { pred: y } } < 1281256852 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more importantly, it has to be able to take partial parses and do that < 1281256870 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it also has to be able to take partial parses, and a command, and turn the command into the full parses that correspond to it < 1281256887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you have the partial parses for "move x" and the command from before < 1281256893 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be able to generate "move x to y" < 1281256898 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Trek, here we come. < 1281256921 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281256938 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internally the way im doing this is kind of perverse < 1281256965 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOW US THE CODE! < 1281256969 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patience < 1281256972 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281256976 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itll be on github in a few days < 1281256992 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill give you a preview in a few hours once i get it to a state that i like < 1281257031 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be asleep in a few hours. < 1281257052 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ill put it on my server now for your < 1281257101 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1281257108 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows a pastie? < 1281257149 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ruby.pastebin.com/SBFwDwpe < 1281257160 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, im not a very stylistic ruby coder < 1281257176 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know all the standard style conventions < 1281257195 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know ruby :P < 1281257208 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the uh .. complete method is a complete mess, too < 1281257220 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the various conditions that are involved < 1281257234 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could probably refactor the whole thing quite nicely but im not going to right now ;P < 1281257235 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's eyes glaze over. < 1281257254 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, what i do internally is like so: < 1281257262 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands internally are turned into graphs < 1281257264 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of, say < 1281257279 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd = { pred => move, object => { pred => x } } < 1281257283 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itll become < 1281257297 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ 0 => { pred => move, object => 1 }, 1 => { pred => x } } < 1281257322 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then non-terminal in the tree is associated with a rule in the grammar, right < 1281257341 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lets just talk about grammars < 1281257353 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to talk about sleep instead. < 1281257355 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To myself. < 1281257356 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my bed. < 1281257358 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww :( < 1281257359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1281257364 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bahee :P < 1281257396 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But immediately before I go to sleep, have a random picture of my eye because it took a lot of work to get this (fuzzy, out-of-focus) shot: http://codu.org/pics/main.php?cmd=imageorig&var1=Assorted%2Fmyeye-2010-08-07-4.jpg < 1281257606 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281258127 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-121.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281259081 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281259791 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1281260061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1281260068 0 :coppro!~scshunt@nat/uwaterloo/x-zepvjkbbgmrojekn JOIN :#esoteric < 1281260073 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1281260073 0 :coppro!~scshunt@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1281260638 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@174-16-95-127.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281261975 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1281261985 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1281262113 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281262648 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281262839 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1281263021 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-121.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281263073 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281264537 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281265096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no! < 1281265113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION see no one with nick Oh, no < 1281265115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sees < 1281265129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't hum Also Sprach Zarathustra without it turning into the Mastermind theme tune! < 1281265142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY, GOD, WHY? < 1281265372 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281267793 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1281268438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281268902 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281268912 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1281268913 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: that you did." he stared down at oats. so did ysabell and the others?" said the archchancellor. he was walking unaided now, provided that it was a tsortean soldier. despite himself, death was his master and that's all there was to it. < 1281268989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281269012 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1281269217 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281269409 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281269540 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281269663 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281269790 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281270882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What random games could be made into Roguelikes? < 1281270894 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps Elite: the Roguelike. < 1281270902 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Go. < 1281270915 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, ha. < 1281270927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hungry hungry hippos < 1281270959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The hippo lunges at the ball! The hippo hits! The hippo eats a ball corpse." < 1281271073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1281271106 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281271116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH if you made most modern games into Roguelikes they would be unbearably shallow. < 1281271147 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281271149 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281271696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281271705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281272350 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281272624 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281272905 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1281273303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if anyone else here has even heard of Elite < 1281273971 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281274151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281274519 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281276766 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281277999 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1281279148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose someone knows why the Haskell logo is based on the bind operator. < 1281279265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281280365 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281281721 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281282201 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1281282392 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1281282706 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281282780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, panos might be coming up later this evening. One or maybe two with grand sea view < 1281282803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some from phone camera, some from my real camera < 1281283355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does pattern-matching really work in eager languages < 1281283360 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1281283632 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281283836 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281284487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can resize and move windows without focusing them. Cool. < 1281284502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, I can't. < 1281284645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darned keybindings inconsistency. < 1281284658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Mousebindings. < 1281284992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okayyyy... why does osstest work but not mplayer < 1281285024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cos of pi. < 1281285034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pattern-matching works in eager languages < 1281285044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see e.g. ML; in fact pattern matching in eager languages predates pattern matching in lazy languages. < 1281285048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed lazy languages altogether < 1281285055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/tjol__oe__holm_1.jpg (__oe__ represents ö) < 1281285068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite small, used mobile phone < 1281285073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some visible seams < 1281285103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it jpeg compresses the images badly < 1281285106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281285108 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281285110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops. < 1281285117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, some quite bad colour shift < 1281285144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahahaha my window manager configuration will defeat evil < 1281285145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem. < 1281285156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise become: nil < 1281285159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i meant to say is MWAHAHAHAHA < 1281285165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1281285168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sniff < 1281285170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sniff. < 1281285175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Try "true become: false" sometime. < 1281285211 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tried Object become: nil. on the recommendation of a tutorial once < 1281285216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, Pharo is in AUR. < 1281285218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The VM crashed < 1281285219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUR? < 1281285221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Of course. < 1281285224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: AUR = Arch User Repository. < 1281285234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically a bunch of "source packages" for Arch Linux. < 1281285246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So instead of getting the binary your package manager goes and builds it, etc., then installs it. < 1281285255 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww < 1281285261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a package manager that supports AUR it's basically like a regular package but sometimes not as polished and it takes a little bit longer. < 1281285272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polish is only wrt patches and build settings, though. < 1281285277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Aww? < 1281285278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true become: false. doesn't cause crashy crashy. It causes freezy freezy. < 1281285280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally, http://www.conservapedia.com/Essay:_The_transitional_animal_the_flying_kitty%3F < 1281285286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Indeed < 1281285292 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scroll down for complete insanity. < 1281285298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think it's doing some sort of loop based on whether a value is true or false < 1281285306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and obviously it's always false, so the loop never terminates < 1281285308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus freezy freezy < 1281285320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: use of become: btw -- future values < 1281285321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the screen gets repainted when I unminimize < 1281285324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you know what futures are?) < 1281285332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but the VM handles painting < 1281285335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...any relation to laziness? < 1281285340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, I don't) < 1281285354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a future is the result of a function called lazily < 1281285356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so e.g. you'd do < 1281285372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo := @ bar longComputation: vitalInput < 1281285374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you did < 1281285384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"foo xyzzy", it'd return @ foo xyzzy < 1281285396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. all message calls are delayed and run asynchronously, while "returning" immediately < 1281285403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can force a future to be evaluated < 1281285413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, when the future is forced, or the asynchronous computation completes, the Future code can do: < 1281285419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theFuture become: theResult < 1281285427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada! no pesky wrapper objects left hanging around < 1281285483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why must SmallIntegers hate become:? < 1281285491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because they're not real objects < 1281285498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get how every object is a pointer, right? < 1281285507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 0xfff points to an instance of MyAmazingClass < 1281285508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281285512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what smalltalk does is align every pointer < 1281285519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that every pointer ends with a 0 in binary < 1281285521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1281285535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every SmallInteger, which is 31 bits (or 63, I dunno if Squeak does 64-bit) < 1281285538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is stored in the rest of the pointer < 1281285542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bottom bit is set to 1 < 1281285545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no actual object there < 1281285550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stored inline, if you assign it to a slot < 1281285554 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E5D9A.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281285555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use it in a variable < 1281285572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "x = pointer to " we have < 1281285576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that breaks the uniformity of everything being an object :( < 1281285585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"x = 0b1231" < 1281285589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1281285590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"x = 0b1101" < 1281285592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for 0b110) < 1281285594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no it doesn't < 1281285600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: from the perspective of the language SmallIntegers are objects < 1281285607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can send them messages, etc; this is handled specially by the VM < 1281285613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects that can't handle become: < 1281285623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like "Object become: nil" works either < 1281285631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say an error telling you you can't do it beats a VM crash < 1281285642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :become: only works in controlled circumstances < 1281285662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: besides, any class can override become: to give one of those messages < 1281285670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you could manually delete it from that class, still < 1281285677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if it wasn't done smalltalk would be slow as fuck rather than slow as shit < 1281285687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so deal < 1281285723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid efficiency concerns! < 1281285752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha. Smalltalk is the last one to worry about efficiency concerns. < 1281285761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway, SmallInteger absolutely does not break Smalltalk's purity < 1281285763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me on that one < 1281285953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when the future wants to return a SmallInteger? < 1281285969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Would actually come up if I used futures for the AW SDK stuff) < 1281286004 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1281286026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's fine < 1281286028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo become: 3 works < 1281286030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not 3 become: foo < 1281286039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theFuture become: theResult, theFuture is a Future, theResult is 3 < 1281286051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...aren't they identical? become: is supposed to swap the two... < 1281286056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1281286066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"x become: y" doesn't touch y < 1281286069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only touches x < 1281286080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"x become: y", i.e. "make x y", not "make y x too" < 1281286083 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925351791.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1281286089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"true become: false" makes all booleans false < 1281286096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you derive your own type of boolean ... :P) < 1281286110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed 's/last full capacity: *\([0-9]*\) mAh/\1/g p; d' # Using sed to grep as well, fuck yeah! < 1281286183 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you're wrong < 1281286192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am? < 1281286199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't think I am ... < 1281286213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the code looks like it swaps them, but it doesn't afaik. < 1281286236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/Ng8x8dcf < 1281286260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hum. < 1281286261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is new to me. < 1281286264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then. < 1281286276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a becomeForward: < 1281286280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does "a become: 3" work? < 1281286282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just out of curiosity... < 1281286328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: can't become SmallIntegers < 1281286338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then just make it an Integer. < 1281286342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy to convert. < 1281286403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky ~]$ pharo < 1281286403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libXdamage.so.1: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64 < 1281286403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could not find module vm-display-X11 < 1281286403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/pharo: line 2: 15272 Aborted sh pharo.sh < 1281286403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. < 1281286477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to watch some more SGA now < 1281286496 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had become: in C#, I'd abuse it to allow me to do unit testing < 1281286587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, becomeForward: doesn't work with SmallIntegers either < 1281286613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to express an opinion on SGA. < 1281286616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it turns out I don't have much of a one. < 1281286634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just turn it into an Integer < 1281286704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um.. < 1281286709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I supposed to do that? < 1281286714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asInteger doesn't help < 1281286813 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back to SGA < 1281286852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky src]$ ./battery < 1281286853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :43% < 1281286854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it works. < 1281286857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Integer new: 3, or something. < 1281286894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integer cannot have variable sized instance < 1281286901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*instances < 1281287071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i'd figure it out but i'm on 64-bit < 1281287074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to be broken < 1281287198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask for help in #squeak ? < 1281287728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's an arch problem. < 1281287733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a battery script thing working! < 1281287754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 'Sides, don't you mean #pharo? < 1281287759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Besides; 'sides is irritating. < 1281287786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are 3 people in #pharo and I'm one of them < 1281287837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I only noticed this just now, but #pharo is the wrong #pharo < 1281287854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and I was in the right #pharo-project which has 10 people < 1281287866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the AUR package just installs the 32-bit binary < 1281287870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1281287870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, #squeak is far more active < 1281287879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just compile Pharo myself < 1281287905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically it's just the squeak vm < 1281287981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There; sudo clyde -S squeak. < 1281287984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'll manually grab the image. < 1281288211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This setup is pretty nice. < 1281288219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I'm converging on a desktop OS I can stand. < 1281288454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Phantom_Hoover. < 1281288467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno why I did that. < 1281288607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1281288614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Is there a nicer/simpler theme than the OS X-style one? < 1281288616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there was in Squeak. < 1281288633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, they've switched to FirstLast instead of FL. < 1281288638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other themes, but they're either ugly or broken < 1281288656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W2k isn't so bad. :-) < 1281288658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :World Menu -> System -> Settings < 1281288661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*W2K < 1281288667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you found it < 1281288670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, they finally made the settings browser not suck. < 1281288675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I /have/ used Pharo before, just an older version. < 1281288700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Soft Squeak and W2K both seem nicer than Watery 2. < 1281288708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The buttons on the taskbar thing are inverted in W2k, and the buttons turn blue eventually < 1281288722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The buttons look fine to me on W2K. But blueness is bad. < 1281288732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soft Squeak, then. < 1281288737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard Squeak would be nicer if it wasn't white. < 1281288746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, try minimizing and unminimizing a window to see what I mean < 1281288751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1281288756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, in /my/ day we didn't _have_ a taskbar. < 1281288780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS X one is stupid anyway, the buttons are at the wrong side of the title bar. < 1281288815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not an OSX user, so I couldn't tell >.> < 1281288844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes his menus flat, without gradients or rounded corners. < 1281288860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more mature. < 1281288964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, the UI only uses bitmap fonts by default, how sane. < 1281289059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Allow underscore as assignment". <3 < 1281289130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What's the way to show the halo# these days? < 1281289131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*halo < 1281289139 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1281289150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea, I just like to pretend it doesn't exist < 1281289164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an Ugly Squeak (TM) thing to me < 1281289187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. But it's also the only way to inspect some objects. < 1281289210 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably some combination of alt or ctrl and a left or middle or right click < 1281289221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried those. < 1281289231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's a menu instead of a halo? < 1281289247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resizing windows is as slow as always... < 1281289249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nope. < 1281289266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I have no idea, sorry :( < 1281289277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-Click? < 1281289282 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brings up a menu < 1281289659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on the taskbar. < 1281289912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shaddap < 1281289927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1281290241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Gah, "n asArray" spits out an array of SmallIntegers; one would think there would be a corresponding fromArray, but it seems not. < 1281290268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why would there be a fromArray? < 1281290283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's an asArray which returns something just about useless without a fromArray. < 1281290293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asArray < 1281290294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | stream | < 1281290294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stream := Array new writeStream. < 1281290294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self digitLength to: 1 by: -1 do: [:digitIndex | < 1281290294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stream nextPut: (self digitAt: digitIndex)]. < 1281290294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ stream contents < 1281290328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so it returns digits. Hmhm. < 1281290340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, you know, anArray at: 1 < 1281290354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to work < 1281290358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1281290363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nope < 1281290367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :65536 asArray < 1281290401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wtfs < 1281290433 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{65536} at: 1 < 1281290437 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not ANSI < 1281290472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ?? < 1281290488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gahh, I hate it when people go "WHY DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS? How DARE you ask without a practical, BUSINESS, best-practices reason for doing this thing?" < 1281290493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why are you wtfing? < 1281290502 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because asArray makes no sense < 1281290510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :65536 asArray #(1 0 0) < 1281290514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Protip: The base isn't decimal. < 1281290552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I'm not sure what base it is. < 1281290565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wtfs at base 256 < 1281290572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Trial and error) < 1281290574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it base 256? < 1281290578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, where did people go that? < 1281290588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, ofc < 1281290591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256r100 65536 < 1281290593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log256(65536) < 1281290595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm... < 1281290615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what i meant < 1281290624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i mean < 1281290627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: #squeak < 1281290635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How should I box a SmallInteger into a (Large) Integer? < 1281290636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : =P < 1281290636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have no idea what you're talking about. >__> < 1281290636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: why would you need to do that? < 1281290636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BrianRice: e.g. to use with become: < 1281290636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: what's the overall goal/problem? < 1281290638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : there are ways to do it, but I'll avoid it if the purpose is just wankery < 1281290640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281290644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: what's the overall goal/problem? < 1281290644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo was wondering :-) just academic, although e.g. an implementation of futures that does "theFuture become: theResult" on completion would need to do it < 1281290647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if the result could be a SmallInteger. < 1281290649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : there are ways to do it, but I'll avoid it if the purpose is just wankery < 1281290699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I expect that you should probably just look at existing implementations of futures like Squeak-E's promises < 1281290700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, yeah, it was just a hypothetical example. < 1281290700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : here, I'll teach you how to fish < 1281290719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I urgently require a method to slap people over TCP/IP. < 1281290732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, it seems more like giving us fish we aren't even interested in < 1281290735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the SCPs could do that. IIRC. < 1281290746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1281290760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : go open a class browser and look at the class side of Integer and its subclasses. or try browsing references to large integer class names, since those would be calling class-side methods. < 1281290760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, I did that. < 1281290760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've been looking for ten minutes. < 1281290761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuckwit < 1281290789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wait, does asArray just break the integer down into its constituent bytes and arrayise them? < 1281290789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why do you want to know, mere mortal?" "What's that? You're just CURIOUS? Well I know, but I'm not telling you." "Here, let me be condescending." "Have you looked at the class?" < 1281290796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Apparently. < 1281290811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a strange thing to do. < 1281290854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : keep at it. you need to learn this skill and I can't just fix it over IRC < 1281290855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BrianRice: Well, it seems you're more interested in being condescending than actually helping at all. I'd looked for 15 minutes and, if you knew, you could answer in one line; if you didn't want to tell me, you could have not said anything; but instead you're lecturing me about doing something I've already done. So thanks, but no thanks. < 1281290895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn how to look through a class browser? < 1281290900 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this guy for real? < 1281290932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO IT'S "LEARN HOW TO TOTALLY SEE WHAT METHODS WILL DO WHAT" YOU SUCK LOL I AM PROFESSIONAL PROGRAMMER < 1281290963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, professionals < 1281290997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume he's a professional, nobody else uses Smalltalk apart from hobbyists and they're just as assholic but less condescending. < 1281291013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: hey, I'll readily admit I don't know, but I don't know any question here on channel when first asked. I always figure it out dynamically. you guys are just not motivating me if you don't have an actual problem to solve and won't read existing code that does this. < 1281291013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BrianRice: you said "there are ways to do it"... I'd read existing code that does it if I had any idea where such code is. < 1281291013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I thoroughly looked at every method that could be in any way relevant. < 1281291013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, try debugging an overflow condition < 1281291018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ridiculous advice. < 1281291052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asArray breaks a bigint into constituent bytes, doesn't it? < 1281291076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's no toArray. < 1281291140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Assholic" is a wonderful word, BtW. < 1281291208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, dearrayising works. < 1281291211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's so... silly. < 1281291233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hide it in a function and pretend it doesn't exist? < 1281291265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you don't know whether ot not it's a SmallInteger, and don't want to deal with it on the side using the future? < 1281291299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No such functions. < 1281291303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Eh? < 1281291312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes functions < 1281291316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Only methods. < 1281291321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You can check what class a value belongs to. < 1281291322 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like methods. < 1281291332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But which is better? There's only one way to find out! < 1281291637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: aha! < 1281291789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: got it < 1281291805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b := a positive ifTrue: [LargePositiveInteger new: 4] ifFalse: [LargeNegativeInteger new: 4]. < 1281291810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b replaceFrom: 1 to: 4 with: a startingAt: 1. < 1281291843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: is a primitive, too, so this should be the most efficient way, more or less. < 1281292147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you know the coding convention for when you do (...) someMsg: ... but the ... has an indent? < 1281292152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have < 1281292156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toLargeInteger < 1281292156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ (self positive < 1281292157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ifTrue: [LargePositiveInteger new: self digitLength] < 1281292157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ifFalse: [LargeNegativeInteger new: self digitLength]) < 1281292157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : replaceFrom: 1 to: self digitLength with: self startingAt: 1. < 1281292169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems weird how the replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: line lines up with the conditional. < 1281292179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you meant to have it unindented? < 1281292304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*asLargeInteger < 1281292402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ok, do you know how to file-out more than one method? < 1281292426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, incidentally, do you know where there's any decent documentation for Epigram 2? < 1281292439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the Epitome, but that hardly counts < 1281292442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there's a lot of links here: http://www.e-pig.org/darcs/Pig09/web/ < 1281292450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/~adam/type-inference/ < 1281292450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/~dagand/#publications < 1281292456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything on http://strictlypositive.org/ < 1281292466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most especially http://www.e-pig.org/epilogue/ < 1281292478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no real actual written documentation, but by reading those and the Epitome you should be able to figure out ... well, something. < 1281292490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also < 1281292494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.e-pig.org/darcs/Pig09/man/man.html < 1281292499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tiny manual < 1281292506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.e-pig.org/darcs/Pig09/test/Syntax.pig < 1281292556 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281292577 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this count as a three-star literate programming? if(*rule=='#' && (rule++,!is_weaving)) return; < 1281292583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also http://www.reddit.com/user/pigworker, Conor's reddit account < 1281292607 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See: You've used the boolean operators to sequence commands - without an 'if'. e.g. (result = do_something()) && (result = do_something_else()); on the C2 wiki) < 1281292610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram, Agda and Coq are the most widely-used dependently typed languages, yes? < 1281292684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nobody uses Epigram. It's purely a research project, but it /is/ one of great interest. < 1281292704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, exactly? < 1281292708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody uses Agda apart from the Agda developers and Haskellers who like to think they're mathematicians. It's a research system too, just with a lot of seemingly-pointless real world libs tacked onto an unstable system. < 1281292714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People use Coq. < 1281292717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mature and works well. < 1281292720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for proving) < 1281292726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because Epigram doesn't even have the upper layer language yet! < 1281292733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know GHC's Core language that it compiles to? < 1281292735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The very small functional one? < 1281292738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram, right now, is like that. < 1281292745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram 1, sure, but nobody used that and it was never really completed. < 1281292752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram 2 is in the very early stages (and has been since ~2005). < 1281292760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not nearly a useable language yet. < 1281292767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*usable < 1281292805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But if I used && to sequence commands in C like that, I would probably only use it if there are many commands to be sequenced together in that way, and maybe type @/ after each one to make them appear on separate lines in the printout) < 1281292893 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what are you going on about? < 1281292907 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literate Haskell is just a fake kind of literate programming! < 1281292916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1281292924 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What do *you* think I am going on about! < 1281292929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You're right but that's ... terribly hyperbolic. < 1281292930 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/!/?/ < 1281292940 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea, except that literate programming comes into it somewhere. < 1281292948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Don't worry, none of us have any idea either. < 1281292958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's good to know. < 1281292983 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What are you refering to, I wrote many things? What is right and terribly hyperbolic? < 1281292997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Epigram 2 have the cool syntax of Epigram 1? < 1281293004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Literate Haskell is just a fake kind of literate programming! < 1281293007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not yet. < 1281293010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1281293013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Who knows what it will look like? < 1281293028 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: O, so you agree? How is it terribly hyperbolic, though? < 1281293033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In 2005 they were scribbling on whiteboards. In recent years they've been redesigning the entire thing then finding out it's broken a few times. < 1281293038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now they're actually writing the start of some code. < 1281293041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a fast project. < 1281293061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so the Epitome isn't so massive as to be totally unreadable? < 1281293065 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-241.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281293075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I agree because it can't do rearranging; but it's hyperbolic because in Haskell, this doesn't matter: functions are always very small, and they can access the state of other ones in the correct monads, so you just separate into functions instead of the <>. < 1281293102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If you can handle tons of fun symbols where ASCII would go in real source code, and have an excellent ability to distinguish actual type theory from Conor's jokes, then it should be fine. < 1281293108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.e-pig.org/darcs/Pig09/src/Epitome.pdf < 1281293112 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ah, yes, OK. < 1281293113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't that long because, indeed, they haven't got very far. < 1281293142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, so it isn't actually real code? < 1281293166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is. < 1281293174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's just preprocessed to make it all pretty with symbols and shit. < 1281293186 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1281293205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun symbols are not used enough in code. < 1281293224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a lot of these don't even exist in Unicode, I think. :-) < 1281293231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find a pdf reader < 1281293251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Unicode has EVERYTHING, doesn't it? < 1281293259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nope. < 1281293265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not quite everything. < 1281293266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky ~]$ ./src/battery < 1281293266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5% (.22 hours remaining) < 1281293267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh-oh. < 1281293270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A large subset of everything? < 1281293276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nope. < 1281293285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is possible to add stuff in some sections meant for that purpose < 1281293298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A small subset of everything and a billion Chinese characters? < 1281293352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall Unicode can encode all *currently spoken* natural languages by now. < 1281293368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But MATHEMATICS? < 1281293375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, all currently spoken, *spoken* natural languages, with an orthography. < 1281293401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a decent number of historical scripts as well. < 1281293406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By no means complete though. < 1281293427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, its encoding of Chinese script is very much incomplete. < 1281293493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gets the vast majority of CJK glyphs currently used, at least. < 1281293536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it inexplicably doesn't encode "Biáng biáng noodles". < 1281293693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okayyy, I sure hope there is a good PDF reader in existence that isn't Evince. < 1281293696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Evince depends on GNOME.) < 1281293718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What do you read PDFs with? < 1281293781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Currently, xpdf. < 1281293787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love a better PDF reader. < 1281293788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ew. < 1281293803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Evince is really nice if you can handle the GNOME dependencies; really really nice. < 1281293818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You might like zathura: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=80458 < 1281293836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't because I'm a bit of a mouse weenie. < 1281293882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My perfect PDF reader: Continuous view, scroll bar for the whole PDF. Resizing the window scales the PDF to fit the width. /Maybe/ some way to show the page number. < 1281293895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write one. < 1281293921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1281293926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I need to figure out poppler and GTK. < 1281293935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh. < 1281293941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thank God for poppler) < 1281293970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall christen it... pew. For "Pdf viEW"? Maybe? < 1281294053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, I'd better install an editor then! < 1281294060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I have is XFCE's mousepad (which is a nice notepad replacement, btw.) < 1281294073 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun reflowing PDFs. < 1281294085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Scaling != reflowing < 1281294093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scaling = zoom < 1281294103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that. < 1281294110 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK, I misinterpreted the goals then. < 1281294119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mind you, I'd /love/ to be able to reflow PDFs. < 1281294123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Y'know what there's a horrible lack of? Nice keyboard-based GUIs. < 1281294144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There is, but this PDF reader won't fill that gap, seeing as it'll have, uh, no controls. < 1281294159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might have /one/ control: to show the page # information. < 1281294180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, I prefer graphics over a console. Unfortunately, the only things with keyboard-based interfaces are on a terminal for the most part... < 1281294191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, also search. < 1281294195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search will just be /foo. < 1281294207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe Ctrl+S foo. < 1281294209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Ctrl+F foo. < 1281294210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows. < 1281294254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just walked into a throne room in Nethack.  < 1281294258 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, crap. < 1281294269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A GUI IM client which can be used without a mouse would be nice, for instance. < 1281294272 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to close the door on the roomful of monsters. < 1281294296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as would a TUI IM client at all, for that matter. I'm currently using freaking irssi via bitlbee. Bit clunky.) < 1281294307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look, the stairs are in it. Wonderful. < 1281294312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If I ever get around to making my IRC client it'll fit that definition. < 1281294324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It /will/ have menus, but anything you're ever going to want to do will be keyboard-based. < 1281294334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mmkay. < 1281294342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, occasionally I end up operating in mouse-only mode for a while. < 1281294350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if I'm browsing a lot. < 1281294366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, and of course the main feature, which will be proper typography. < 1281294378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, /actual spacing/ between the messages. Actual line spacing, for that matter. < 1281294385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I could just take cues from how plays are typeset, couldn't I? < 1281294391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're pretty similar to IRC. < 1281294404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that... Urgh. The mouse is such a piss-poor interface device for most things. < 1281294417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, but... with reservation. < 1281294421 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Romeo is feeling suicidal < 1281294434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to manage windows with my mouse -- that doesn't imply a floating manager, though. < 1281294443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover knows about my platonically-ideal tiling mouse-based WM design. < 1281294445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is glorious.) < 1281294467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes. A mouse is good for dealing with things that are inherently dealing with XY positions. < 1281294490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's poorly adapted for "I want to hit the foo button, then the bar button, and then the baz option on the menu." < 1281294501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now I can manage all my windows with just a three-button mouse and the alt key. (Alt+left to move, Alt+middle to group in tabs iwth another window, Alt+right to resize, double click title bar to maximise, middle click title bar to close, right click title bar to hide, alt+right click title bar to bring up menu) < 1281294521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is, incidentally, the nicest WM workflow I've come across yet. At least until I make that tiling WM.) < 1281294534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A keyboard is *better* for such things, though perhaps a bit sub-par. < 1281294547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better for what I said or for what you said? < 1281294553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what I said. < 1281294575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. For what I said, wrt the clicks, you'd think so, but actually the instinctual action kicks in. Like the Plan 9 guys say, the keyboard is a lot more think-y, whereas the mouse is a lot more do-y. < 1281294602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(optimal would be something with an entirely-software-driven tactical interface. Physical buttons being made as the software needs it, for instance.) < 1281294607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So even for closing windows, etc., I find the mouse more efficient (even though if you "self-timed" yourself in your head it'd probably seem slower since the keyboard is occupying brain CPU time, whereas the mouse is "boring" instinctual work) < 1281294611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes; very yes. < 1281294624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Although any position where you can touch your screen is awkward with a typical screen. < 1281294630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you read Stanislav's The Glove Box? < 1281294641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.loper-os.org/?p=35 < 1281294643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said anything about it being the normal display screen. < 1281294646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1281294655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Glove Box is a 3D, tactile display. < 1281294656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think about something like a keyboard, except the buttons come in and out as the software demands. < 1281294669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a 3D tactile display. :P < 1281294680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest reading the post; it even mentions how you could do such a "display". < 1281294683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course, you get a normal keyboard for text input) < 1281294710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I bet I could invent hand movements that represent letters/words more efficient than a keyboard. < 1281294711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at sign language. < 1281294719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the Glove Box, that would be easy to implement. < 1281294786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I was imagining just a mere keyboard-thing with software-defined buttons. < 1281294797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the Glove Box, you've got much more room for input design. < 1281294799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You mean the Optimus thing? XD < 1281294808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Optimus Maximus < 1281294810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/ < 1281294817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, no, no. The buttons do not exist until the software requires them. < 1281294821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only $2,400! < 1281294824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they exist in the shape so asked for. < 1281294838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would be, ah, *hard*. < 1281294844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glove Box is amusingly a bit easier. :P < 1281294862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(add-hook 'c-mode-hook (lambda () < 1281294862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (c-set-style "linux") < 1281294862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (setq tab-width 4) < 1281294862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (setq c-basic-offset 4))) < 1281294866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to code. < 1281294921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is currently very little documentation." --poppler < 1281294923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries < 1281294929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glib: Documentation is in the release under glib/reference/html/ < 1281294931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fuuuck you. < 1281294988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Glib" is another good name for software. < 1281294997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A good name for awful software. < 1281295022 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glib <=> Object-oriented C? < 1281295047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ePDFView may be good; Evince sans GNOME. < 1281295051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Plus other crap base don that, yes. < 1281295052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*based on < 1281295063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just OOP C; GObject, the worst possible incarnation of it. < 1281295072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's in emerge. < 1281295115 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281295121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't support proper continuous mode though. Sigh. < 1281295220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "index.sgml" --poppler source tree < 1281295228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is actually SGML; I am not fucking with you. < 1281295241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281295241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281295241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281295241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1281295254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *It is actually straight SGML*. My God. < 1281295278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with straight SGML? < 1281295287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, pew will be written in either Vala or Genie. < 1281295304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I have to deal with Glib and GTK+. < 1281295352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, if you're using GTK+ you may as well retain sanity. < 1281295422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genie is great, have I mentioned that? It's a compiled-almost-straight-down-to-C-plus-GObject language with Pythonesque syntax (but without stupid colons) and with proper lambdas (they can contain statements)... < 1281295460 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with Python's crippled lambdas, by the way? < 1281295531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GvR is retarded. < 1281295551 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm... popplers < 1281295572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My competing PDF library will be called "tribble". < 1281295585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's an indirect reference. Can we get some three-star referencers in here? < 1281295640 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281295658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This: http://sprunge.us/cKiP compiles to this: http://sprunge.us/feLC < 1281295756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you configure the browser XChat uses? < 1281295814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Nice. < 1281295846 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1281296097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, apart from the above mentioned pano today I have this one: http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/tjol__oe__holm_2.jpg < 1281296108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my good camera, but some parallax < 1281296121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less in the preview, it really selected bad seams < 1281296168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a few more, not sure if I will do them now or later < 1281296232 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1281296307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You killed fungot < 1281296308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1281296356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281296384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1281296396 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A best kind of PDF view is, displays nothing except status bar (which shows page number and filename, and numeric prefix to commands), and the page view. < 1281296405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, s/A/The/ ? < 1281296413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, "v" switch view to normal document view or bookmarks view, "p" to print document, "s" to search, "S" for document status, "d" to change display settings, "return" to go to page by numeric prefix, "t" to convert to text, < 1281296416 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a" to adjust settings of document in memory, "C" to adjust command-line flags, < 1281296435 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No interactive or animation or whatever < 1281296444 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless enabled by command-line flags) < 1281296459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, as far as I know pdf isn't interactive in any way? < 1281296470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can make links, so you can click on "see figure 4.2" < 1281296470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, document security settings is ignored unless told in command-line flags to be standards-compliant < 1281296473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is rather useful < 1281296489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also a way to jump back to where you were before following the link in many readers < 1281296523 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281296534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, all pdf readers except xpdf on linux has an option to ignore those, most ignore them by default < 1281296535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And each of three mouse-buttons different function, also depending on single-click/double-click, shift key held down or not, etc < 1281296536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nothing new there < 1281296541 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@97-124-206-72.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281296555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all I know about that is < 1281296581 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you have links and a way to jump back like that, then also have, "b" to go back, and "k" to follow a fake link that points to the current location (so that you can navigate manually and then push "b" to go back) < 1281296582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I suppose someone knows why the Haskell logo is based on the bind operator. <-- i am pretty sure there was a contest. the previous one was a hodgepodge of lambdas and other symbols < 1281296604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Unfortunately, it appears that there is no genie-mode. < 1281296639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is the context? < 1281296654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, everything is awfully slow on this wlan, so "check logs" is extremely unhelpful < 1281296657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :( < 1281296671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact everything but upload speed, very strange < 1281296671 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There, is these things OK now in your opinion? < 1281296686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_logos < 1281296686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: things. < 1281296689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a language thing. < 1281296711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you said no interactive, do you include having clickable (or otherwise followable) links in that category? < 1281296733 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, followable internal links don't count as interactive in this case < 1281296743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, right < 1281296759 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Left-click selects text or objects, left-double-click follows internal link, middle-click scrolls, right-click to drag to draw a zoom box) < 1281296774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I still suspect I will just continue to use evince, but your one sounds like a usable minimalistic alternative then < 1281296775 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And right-double-click zooms out) < 1281296814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, the haskellwiki itself hasn't had the logo updated :| < 1281296820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, for following internal links, having a browser like history for them is really helpful, especially when the link is to some page 400 pages away and then you need to go back < 1281296842 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDFs can also sometimes send a message to a server by internet every time you view it, my PDF viewer also would not do such a thing unless you enable standards-compliant mode < 1281296854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I really like that feature of okular < 1281296859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evince doesn't have it < 1281296862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1281296866 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, you push "b" to go back, that is the history! And then, possibly, "B" for list of history. < 1281296870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1281296899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's ais523 when you need him < 1281296955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, since the pdfs I read mostly fall into the category of standards with 400+ pages and lots of cross references... it is extremely useful < 1281297047 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, of course, that is why, that you would be able to use these kind of function, and PDF bookmarks menu, for these purpose. < 1281297059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WTF? TAB in Fundamental mode is sometimes inserting spaces. < 1281297064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab-width is 8 < 1281297067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indent-tabs-mode is t < 1281297104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and what is indention width < 1281297112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no such thing in fundamental < 1281297114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*indentation, also. < 1281297117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281297125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why i'm so confused < 1281297225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281297239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, maybe you misunderstood and there is such a thing in that mode? < 1281297256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or does it insert them up to the next tab stop? < 1281297262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that being 8? < 1281297281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is there any pattern behind when it happens? < 1281297285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl+V TAB even inserts 4 spcaes! < 1281297286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spaces < 1281297287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT. < 1281297294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if there is something in the tabs before < 1281297295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at column 0 < 1281297299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: abc < 1281297303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1281297305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl+v doesn't do that heh < 1281297307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay *that* is confusing < 1281297311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's C-q < 1281297315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which works < 1281297316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-q TAB works < 1281297320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAB in col 0 inserts 4 spaces < 1281297347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm C-v is scroll-up < 1281298167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bleh, This Is Hard. < 1281298228 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, change the setting if you do not like it like that < 1281298272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can't figure out why it's doing it. < 1281298357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You could try mupdf. < 1281298362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mupdf.com/ < 1281298379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may not be able to search for text, but by golly, it's the most precise and accurate PDF rendering you'll find! < 1281298385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it /is/ entirely keyboard-based. :P < 1281298533 0 :alise_!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281298534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281298538 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ... froze ... < 1281298539 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise < 1281298543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MuPDF was so accurate it froze my system. < 1281298582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it brought the system down to 0 entropy, thus 0 kelvin < 1281298661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has developed an Evil Plan < 1281298672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language more naziesque than agda *and* eiffel < 1281298689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :design by contract proofs < 1281298693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1281298738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see why Eiffel -> Nazi, but why Agda? < 1281298753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1281298756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language more naziesque than ada *and* eiffel < 1281298763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. :P < 1281298841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how boring < 1281298849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a type system that would make God himself cry? < 1281298852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, Ada and Eiffel are more naziesque than Agda < 1281298857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the statement is stronger < 1281298874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a > b /\ a > c) = (a > max(b,c)) ofc. < 1281298909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if Ada is Nazier than Eiffel. < 1281298930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1281299002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about values start in a type, and *stay* there? < 1281299012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1281299017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of this "Char → Int" stuff! < 1281299026 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functions are all a->a! < 1281299031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a > b /\ a > c) = (a > b \/ c) < 1281299036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1281299063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait that is true for >=, not > < 1281299085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because technically max(b,c) itself could be > b and > c < 1281299121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, b \/ c < 1281299143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :max might imply it's one of them < 1281299176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :max(a,b) is definitely either a or b :P < 1281299204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it exists < 1281299243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nazi orders _should_ be total, come to think of it < 1281299271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, which is Nazier? Ada or Eiffel? < 1281299275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ada < 1281299324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examples of Nazi typing? < 1281299410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :procedure Maximum(A : Integer, B : Integer) -> Integer; < 1281299410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MuPDF was so accurate it froze my system. <-- um, how? < 1281299410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : result Result; < 1281299410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does; < 1281299410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if A > B; < 1281299410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Result := A; < 1281299410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else; --{ Thus B > A } < 1281299412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Result := B; < 1281299414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end if; < 1281299416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end Maximum; < 1281299420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Note that return parameters can have "tags". < 1281299425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, swap trash or 100% cpu resources? Or kernel bug < 1281299430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the functions that do console IO will return with the tag [Performs_IO]. < 1281299433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or X freezing? < 1281299435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All functions that use them will also have this tag. < 1281299440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, I remember that from my Pascal days. < 1281299444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid as hell. < 1281299446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No... < 1281299448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm inventing this. < 1281299462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can call a function with the expectation that it will not perform console IO because it does not have the [Performs_IO] tag. < 1281299465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada! < 1281299483 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean the need for a named variable for return values. < 1281299503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that code looks very much like a cross between pascal and VHDL to me < 1281299516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also the := < 1281299525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would call it function not procedure < 1281299534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since procedure is a function returning nothing < 1281299536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pascal < 1281299551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had an idea for a weird module system with only "export". < 1281299560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to think of a suitably ludicrous contract for Maximum < 1281299563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is unable to think of one < 1281299563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm? what's so strange with that < 1281299576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you can use fully qualified name, in fact you do in many module systems < 1281299586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, I made an error in my comments! < 1281299587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's no statement to import a module. < 1281299615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to have the stuff in foo in bar, you need to but "export to bar" in foo. < 1281299628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, there isn't in erlang either. You can import functions from modules, meaning you use bar() instead of foo:bar() < 1281299633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but that is it < 1281299644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you misunderstand me. < 1281299668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh like C++ "friend" stuff < 1281299687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION carefully avoids C++ < 1281299709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so do I to the extent that it is possible < 1281299714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :university and so on < 1281299734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some course using C++ this autumn iirc < 1281299756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been C and python so far. Oh and VHDL and SQL but those are not general purpose < 1281299954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I present to you: Naked Zit (NaZi for short), the programming language. < 1281299954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/KXHO < 1281299962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maximum, Minimum, and a relation between the two. < 1281299988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: The three spaces used for indentation are SOLELY for show; real code is always indented with tabs, the most reliable indentation character. Editors will display these as three spaces. < 1281300006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an error in this code. < 1281300008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you spot it? < 1281300019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that editors would display it as 3 spaces < 1281300029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be anything :P < 1281300037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I prefer to have it equal 4 < 1281300055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is specified in the standard. < 1281300072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now find the real error. < 1281300100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is made especially easy by NaZi's clear syntax and precise specification. < 1281300108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, tl;dr < 1281300128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you can't handle Maximum and Minimum, how will you *ever* handle writing enterprise-grade systems in it?! < 1281300149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, "it" is not clear in the last sentence I said. I hereby replace "it" with "NaZi". < 1281300152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiler error. < 1281300156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntactical style not obeyed. < 1281300160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, tl;dr because Idon < 1281300170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't plan to figure out that language < 1281300176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm half asleep anyway < 1281300183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally I'm busy doing other stuff on the side < 1281300192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need to declare A and B twice? < 1281300206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The second time is in the contract. < 1281300228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the contract for? < 1281300228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Which is abstract behaviour disconnected from the implementation. < 1281300241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The contract specifies behaviour about the function. It is checked every time the function is called in debug mode. < 1281300244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is standard from Eiffel. < 1281300274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... why do you need to say that A and B are integers *twice*? < 1281300280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just prove that contract statically? < 1281300288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There are two A and Bs. < 1281300302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The A and B in the contract specify abstract variables, like a "for all" quantification. < 1281300312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The A and B in the procedure declaration represent the specific A and B passed to the call. < 1281300334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's flawed, but who cares, it's nazi. < 1281300338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spotted the error yet?! < 1281300376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it states Maximum /= Minimum. < 1281300381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is obviously false. < 1281300390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not state that. < 1281300397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Procedures are not values, and /= is not a defined relation. < 1281300420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maximum(A, B) =/= Minimum(A, B) is obviously false, then < 1281300425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prove it. < 1281300474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maximum(3, 3) = Minimum(3, 3) < 1281300502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You win a prize! That prize is the corrected version made before I even asked: http://sprunge.us/GPWD < 1281300512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This includes a never-seen-before language feature: contract conditions! < 1281300534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, make it require a proof of the contract. < 1281300542 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An *explicit* proof < 1281300550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! You might prove the WRONG THING. < 1281300569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prove that you prove the right thing, then. < 1281300601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1281300608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH COQASIA < 1281300620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coqasians, noted for their white skin, are EVIL INCARNATE. < 1281300623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I maed pun) < 1281300630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, none of those *POLYMORPHIC* things! < 1281300658 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependent types are obviously the work of the allies! < 1281300678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:21:50 Phantom_Hoover: alise has this thing < 1281300679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:21:56 jokes about "monad" and "nomad" < 1281300681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/prog/ has this thing < 1281300688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Absolutely. No polymorphism. < 1281300693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can't even handle tagged types. < 1281300704 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: */prog/? < 1281300704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll make our OWN proof checker! < 1281300788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: nomad is /prog/'s "joke", not mine < 1281300798 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what /prog/ is < 1281300803 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might as well be your joke < 1281300806 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here at least < 1281300809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4chan? < 1281300814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dis.4chan.org/prog/; I recommend not visiting, since it's turned to complete and utter shit. < 1281300816 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1281300820 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wont be visiting at all < 1281300824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, almost; a text board. < 1281300924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should write a Roguelike. < 1281300951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Elite: the Roguelike! < 1281300954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be done! < 1281300981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! < 1281300993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space Invaders: The Roguelike < 1281301003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elite! < 1281301072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elite Invaders! < 1281301091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's easy enough. < 1281301144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's probably done it in Oolite by now. < 1281301152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oolite? < 1281301160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, some souped-up Elite clone. < 1281301172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1281301216 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason my GPU hangs when I try to play it since I installed Lucid.. < 1281301325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Eben Moglen on LLVM: "Nobody has ever tried before, to build a multi-platform C compiler solely in order to undermine freedom" < 1281301329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*freedom. < 1281301333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extra ". < 1281301346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahahahaha. < 1281301368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM is free, isn't it? < 1281301369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I suggest you use Alise Linux instead! < 1281301371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*alise < 1281301379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is my ridiculous name for Arch + my desktop stuff. < 1281301389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's BSD! EVIL EVIL BSD. < 1281301394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use a DEMON as their logo. < 1281301395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL 4eva < 1281301414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a driver issue, so I suspect getting a new computer is the best course of action. < 1281301452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARCH HAS ALL THE DRIVERS < 1281301455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What card? < 1281301464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have a card. < 1281301479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Onboard video? < 1281301483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What brand? Intel? < 1281301483 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a bit of cardboard with some lines and an Intel logo drawn on it stuck to my motherboard. < 1281301497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel video on Arch is pretty snazzy here... < 1281301566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only actually crashes in some circumstances. < 1281301605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Eben Moglen on LLVM: "Nobody has ever tried before, to build a multi-platform C compiler solely in order to undermine freedom" < 1281301609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a joke? < 1281301612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope. < 1281301612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who is that guy < 1281301621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software Freedom Law Centre guy, FSF lawyer < 1281301623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a retard obviously, unless I missed something HUGE < 1281301627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't < 1281301641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he thinks Steve Jobs piling money into LLVM is evil because it's to stop the gpl < 1281301643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus is against freedom < 1281301651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, LLVM is BSD right? < 1281301654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD-2? < 1281301658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1281301662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, FSF guy < 1281301672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even rms isn't that crazy :) < 1281301719 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1281301744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, people could use it and not give back to the community. While there are some good points in that, you have to see both sides of it. However it should be up to each author if he wants other to be able to build stuff on his code without opening it up to everyone. < 1281301759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to come down to patents... < 1281301759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah he is retarded < 1281301764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm... < 1281301768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no < 1281301784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I don't see issues with GPL, nor with BSD-2 < 1281301786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from another time: < 1281301787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Moglen explained how Apple’s use of LLVM as an alternative compiler to the GCC represented a threat to the movement. If I followed correctly, this is due to the fact that LLVM has a more permissive, “BSD-style” license." < 1281301803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depeneds on what project and what you want others to be able to do with your code < 1281301826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes that one makes no sense < 1281301826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is getting that from reddit comments and the guy's speech < 1281302276 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use BSD-style licenses in my own programs (unless I am making modifications of a program that is already BSD-licensed). I mostly prefer GNU GPL, but for some programs I just make it public domain. < 1281302427 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the worst point ever, I strongly suspect that the GPL is waaaaay up there in the reasons why Apple is so interested in clang and LLVM. Still, everybody else benefits too, so who cares :P < 1281302430 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any command in TeX to tell it to ignore the outerness of commands? < 1281302440 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281302452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ... outerness? < 1281302456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: GPL3, yes; they were fine with GPL2. < 1281302468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They started pouring more and more money into LLVM when gcc switched to GPLv3, which Apple wouldn't bundle. < 1281302471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Like, if a word is defined with \outer < 1281302475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, calling LLVM a /thread to freedom/ is just... what. < 1281302533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, threat* < 1281302542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, thread to freedom sounds like it means the opposite < 1281302550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1281302570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to decide between two Arch font rendering packages. < 1281302587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it also sounds like a metaphor that was initially delivered way past it's breaking point < 1281302601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metaphors are like babies ... you deliver them < 1281302609 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you eat them. < 1281302619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you get carried away with them. < 1281302634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed I extended that metaphor of "extending a metaphor past it's breaking point" past it's breaking point < 1281302641 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, alise, that was a simile. < 1281302664 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@97-124-206-72.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281302670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, was that a meta joke? < 1281302686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Similies are a new dawn. < 1281302697 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes his fist :P < 1281302697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are the brightest girder in the pile of tacks. < 1281302708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, looks like I've finally gone insane < 1281302712 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metaphors are like babies, similes are a new dawn. < 1281302720 0 :alise_!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281302727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you're saying / but this has to rhyme with scorn. < 1281302735 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE ARE ALL INSANITY! < 1281302751 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well put. < 1281302755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Do not worry, it is good things in some contexts, i.e.) < 1281302756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Similies are a new dawn. <-- wait, is that a reference to that auto-tuned carl sagan thingy? < 1281302760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is impressed with mupdf already < 1281302772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are insanity! I got all my esolangers with me! < 1281302775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But it can't even search! < 1281302775 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mupdf: PDFs for muppets. < 1281302778 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1281302779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I just too paranoid... < 1281302784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1281302785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Nor can xpdf. :P < 1281302785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paranoid. < 1281302788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really? < 1281302792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right < 1281302793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really. < 1281302799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MuPDF is primarily designed for accurate reproduction of the printed result, anyway. < 1281302810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, besides now I got an urge to listen for it, but I really want to play nwn for a bit. argh < 1281302813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall check it out < 1281302850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Check what out? < 1281302891 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of using \outer I just changed yesweb so that any initializations like \newcount and so on go on a like with \init before \start (the "\in" at the beginning is significant, due to how yesweb works) < 1281302895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: MuPDF's actual PDF rendering. < 1281302930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that video... it seems that guy made more auto tuned ones from cosoms < 1281302936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least based on google search < 1281302947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have yet to check that other one out < 1281302961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It calculates to a precision of fractions of a pixel. < 1281302971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Especially text metrics: < 1281302972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The renderer in MuPDF is tailored for high quality anti-aliased graphics. It renders text with metrics and spacing accurate to within fractions of a pixel for the highest fidelity in reproducing the look of a printed page on screen." < 1281302993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, its UI is... lacking. < 1281303012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, testing something < 1281303022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281303035 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281303051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if my eyes can adjust to this particular blend of subpixel antialiasing. < 1281303068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because dammit, I need higher fidelity fonts. < 1281303089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm actually not minding its UI, except for lack of features. < 1281303097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scrolling is... painful. < 1281303102 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In the part before \start, the "n" is a comment character and \i is defined to do nothing) < 1281303106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The tragedy of Libertine and Biolinium is that freetype can't fucking render them properly! < 1281303111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With any settings! < 1281303122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I've mostly used Libertine in TeX for that reason. < 1281303148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: BTW, MuPDF also offers a *library*. < 1281303189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1281303202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it'll be significantly easier to use than poppler, however, and the fidelity is mostly a pedantic conern. < 1281303211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaargh freetype doesn't render "fi" as a ligature < 1281303348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281303361 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281303362 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fi" should not be rendered as a ligature in monospace text. (2600 does render "fi" as a ligature even in monospaced text, and that is a bad idea.) < 1281303369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not monospaced text. < 1281303377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2600? The magazine? < 1281303382 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1281303389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, how come freetype does "Qu" but not "fi"? < 1281303389 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do mean the magazine. < 1281303399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it sort of does "fi". Sort of. < 1281303427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, have you ever tried ROX-Filer? < 1281303437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's like file managers, done right. In fact, it's not like that, it IS that. < 1281303498 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, my idea for file manager is more better (at least in my opinion) < 1281303509 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see what kind of spells/powers my D&D character has: < 1281303545 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prestidigitation; Read Magic; Enlarge Person; Silent Image; Comprehend Languages; Summon Spider I; Locate Object; Hold Portal; Expeditious Retreat; Remove Hand; Object Mirrored; < 1281303570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Summon Rope of Spidersilk: Azore's Speaking Tome; Mirror Surface; Create Water; Amanuensis; Stick; < 1281303608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, I wasn't referring to your opinion of file managers; I was referring to mine. < 1281303622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think your idea is worse, at least for my usage. < 1281303665 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Detect Psionics; Inertial Armor; My Light; Far Hand; Vigor; Touch of Health; Control Sound; Concealing Amorpha; Tongues; Levitate; Dispel Psionics; Detect Hostile Intent; Mass Missive; Control Light; Trace Teleport; Dimension Door; Major Creation; Object Reading; Time Hop; Make Food, Restore Extremity; Eidetic Lock; ..... < 1281303676 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, that can be your opinion, is OK < 1281303748 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which spells/powers do you dislike? < 1281303752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: urxvt sucks at font spacing. < 1281303890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby recommend uxterm in its place ... < 1281304021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281304412 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281304419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[One expression I sometimes hear in motion pictures is the following: "I'm screwed". The character will pronounce these words when he suddenly realizes some problem that affects him cannot be solved. I looked in wiktionary.org for the verb to screw and the two definitions (acepciones in Spanish) closer in sense to what I think the verb means in the context of the above said expression are 2 and 3. < 1281304419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost certain it is a very rude expression. And wiktionary def.2 seems to confirm this. But I do now understand quite well def.3, especially when it says "screw follows fuck". However, I just have read a post in a very serious computer forum where somebody titles his post "Color prompt screws bash". I do not think the moderators there would allow it if it had sexual connotations.]] < 1281304429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funniest thing I've read all day ^ < 1281304457 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1281304493 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(President Skroob is totally a pun) < 1281304608 0 :fizzie!~fis@2001:1bc8:102:587b:230:18ff:fea9:6f01 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281304667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there appears to be a fungot shortage < 1281304688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, we lost them electricities for about two hours. < 1281304751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sometimes I have trouble believing this is a city.) < 1281304790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was apparently a blackout in trondheim the other day. not here though. < 1281304825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a pretty localized break, something like ten times 5 city blocks (it's a bit hard to be sure, this is not a very grid-like layout). < 1281304833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it affected the center of town, including the main hospital) < 1281304868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a reasonably strong storm here; we of course walked right through the rain and lightning, since we were at a (graduation) party of two friends from the university, and had to get home. < 1281304908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the fungot laptop/server hybrid isn't speaking to me. < 1281304916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, obviously the lightning used up all the electricity. < 1281304936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was in the room not long ago, and the GRUB boot menu was showing up okay. < 1281304951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were a dozen kernels to pick from, though, and I have no clue whether I selected the right one. Possibly not. < 1281304984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like an idea for steganography < 1281305014 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually, I pick the newest one < 1281305096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all had the same version, just different suffixes related to different adventurous voyages in virtualization-land. < 1281305103 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :steganography? find the hidden message: asdfghjkl < 1281305124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1281305125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one I picked (the highlighted one, I think it's with grub's savedefault so it should be good) apparently wasn't the right one, based on a kernel panic it had gotten into. < 1281305133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps this one will fare better. < 1281305145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it answers to SSH, which is a good sign. < 1281305154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That system is in a serious need of cleaning up.) < 1281305183 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont use xen or uml kernels < 1281305231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to run Xen, but they completely dropped support for non-PAE processors, and that thing has the 1.5 GHz single Pentium M model that doesn't do PAE at all. < 1281305244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UML I've ran elsewhere, but not on that thing. < 1281305260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently it was a choice between kernels with openvz, vserver, or both, in the name. < 1281305268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Apparently "both" was a working alternative.) < 1281305314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlpenvxenver < 1281305341 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to vmlinuz? < 1281305391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ mupdf libertine.pdf < 1281305391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :detected cpu features: mmx mmxext sse sse2 < 1281305391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ximage: mode 24/32 00ff0000 0000ff00 000000ff (16,8,0) lsb < 1281305391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ximage: ARGB8888 to BGRA8888 < 1281305391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ximage: XShmPutImage < 1281305398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: World's most advanced PDF renderer. < 1281305412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hah. < 1281305480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell take 100$List.nubBy(((>1).).gcd)[2..] < 1281305494 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101,103,107,109,113,127,131,137,139,149,151,157,163,167,173,179,181,191,193,197,199,211,223,227,229,233,239,241,251,257,263,269,271,277,281,283,293,307,311,313,317,331,337,347,349,353,359,367,373,379,383,389,397,401,409,419,421,431,433,439,443,449,457,461,463,467,479,487,491,499,503,509,521,523,541] < 1281305682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, do you think I should write my PDF reader using MuPDF? < 1281305691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: jumpin' jumpin' < 1281305693 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1281305695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sure. < 1281305700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quit" looks so elegant in this font. < 1281305711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also those reverses, I really need to fix 'em. < 1281305734 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1281305738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1281305742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mupdf.com/repos/mupdf/mupdf/ < 1281305745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mupdf.com/repos/mupdf/apps/ < 1281305750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worlds most advanced PDF viewer's C code. < 1281305783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mupdf.com/repos/mupdf/fitz/ Some geometry thing it uses. < 1281305788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mupdf.com/repos/mupdf/draw/ Drawing library... < 1281305807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whole thing: http://mupdf.com/repos/mupdf/ < 1281305825 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281305892 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that haskell line work? i'd love to try in it c < 1281305916 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/in it/it in/ < 1281305964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complicatedly. < 1281306038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((>1).).gcd) is the same as \x y -> (x `gcd` y) > 1 , it's a test for whether two numbers have a common prime factor < 1281306074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not particularly efficient, just short < 1281306092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially since x will always be a prime in this program) < 1281306159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nubBy goes through the infinite list [2..] of all integers >= 2, throwing way all that have common factors with previous remaining elements < 1281306167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*away < 1281306245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a form of eratosthenes sieve < 1281306250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*'s < 1281306277 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1281306358 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my programs just use the function for generating primes < 1281306405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1281306423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that function probably uses such a sieve underneath, if it gives primes by number < 1281306461 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i for got what c header file it was in < 1281306512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm not aware of any way of finding the nth prime without essentially testing all previous ones. although i might just not have heard of it.) < 1281306539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/testing/going through/ < 1281306549 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm referring to whatever the isprime() is called < 1281306555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :benuphoenix: well that's cheating. < 1281306557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1281306587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isprime() is less efficient than a sieve if you want to list all < 1281306594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281306616 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281306618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it duplicates work. well i guess it could use a list of primes internally to shortcut some) < 1281306650 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duplicates! < 1281306728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone pinged me? < 1281306736 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1281306759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't use gcd either, use mod) < 1281306795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sieving is fast < 1281306803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell take 100$List.nubBy(((<1).).flip mod)[2..] < 1281306804 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101,103,107,109,113,127,131,137,139,149,151,157,163,167,173,179,181,191,193,197,199,211,223,227,229,233,239,241,251,257,263,269,271,277,281,283,293,307,311,313,317,331,337,347,349,353,359,367,373,379,383,389,397,401,409,419,421,431,433,439,443,449,457,461,463,467,479,487,491,499,503,509,521,523,541] < 1281306840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the speedup here is probably not noticable though) < 1281306899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, when I do the LargePositiveInteger thing, I get 0 < 1281306919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in principle one shouldn't use a linked list either, but an array for fast looping < 1281306928 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a bit strange? c+=first_col*!!(!(c=(c+1)%(first_col+num_cols)) && r++); < 1281306933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LargePositiveInteger new: 3) printit -> 0 < 1281306948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it even valid in C without undefined behavior? < 1281306960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Erm, yeah, I pasted a long snippet. < 1281306980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm two assignments to c < 1281306990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's not defined < 1281306990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1281307000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: < 1281307001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:23:25 b := a positive ifTrue: [LargePositiveInteger new: 4] ifFalse: [LargeNegativeInteger new: 4]. < 1281307001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:23:30 b replaceFrom: 1 to: 4 with: a startingAt: 1. < 1281307003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both lines are important < 1281307020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/4/a digitLength/ to get something more general. < 1281307028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/g < 1281307039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Why do UIs suck so hard? < 1281307068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because. What UI is specifically giving you crap? < 1281307093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Just a general sentiment is all. < 1281307116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the && give a sequence point? i'm not a C expert but _maybe_ it's well-defined in that case? < 1281307116 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: O, it is not defined? Because of both assignment to |c| both at once? OK < 1281307129 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think the && gives a sequence point < 1281307153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'd suggest changing it anyway :D < 1281307157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how's MuPDF? < 1281307160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, that is what I am doing < 1281307164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Nice rendering. < 1281307172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardly any features. < 1281307175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than xpdf. < 1281307194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is now easier: if(!(c=(c+1)%(first_col+num_cols)) && r++) c=first_col; < 1281307294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But not so good scrolling/zooming/etc. < 1281307308 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have all of my own idea, instead, which is differently, but that is OK < 1281307380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: True. < 1281307596 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281307666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: We know. :P < 1281307889 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281307895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proposal: Interrobang as the Ligature for "?!" and "!?" < 1281307904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine that in an OpenType font. Instant interrobangs! < 1281307922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or exclagates, in the case of "!?". < 1281307960 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281308039 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281308118 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-35-167.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281308331 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@80-123-36-193.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281308346 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281308431 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281308431 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1281308551 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreaseMonkey < 1281309561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exclagates? < 1281309708 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1281310184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281310191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interrobang = Interrogate + bang. < 1281310196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exclagate = Exclamation + interrogate. < 1281310297 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that means if I exclagate you I don't bang you at all. < 1281310300 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the fun in that? < 1281310667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is contemplating watching SGU when he finishes SGA < 1281310674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, you'll stay on the right side of the law. < 1281310682 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Fair point. < 1281310687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a friend who likes SGU, so maybe it's not so bad < 1281310694 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's ... not great. < 1281310696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If the first two parts of Air are anything to go by, yes yes yes do. But get it in HD, it's filmed beautifully. < 1281310708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, Gregor has watched ... more than me, presumably. < 1281310713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro likes SGU. < 1281310721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I'm pretty sure coppro sat through the entirety of Voyager, so YMMV < 1281310726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've watched all that have been released thusfar. < 1281310740 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's progressively turning into a cheesy soap opera. < 1281310744 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1281310747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had potential, but it's just getting more stupid by the episode. < 1281310748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thusfar: Not TECHNICALLY a word! < 1281310760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although someone I hooked on the Stargate franchise doesn't like SGU < 1281310765 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Technically "not TECHNICALLY a word" is meaningless. < 1281310776 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, he also didn't like seasons 9+10 of SG-1 < 1281310781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The "gurl zvffrq... gjvpr" plotline that coppro told me about sounded awfully cheesy. < 1281310793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: When did that guy whose name I forget "transcend"? < 1281310805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was awfully, terribly cheesy, and missed him; he was a good character. < 1281310811 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? Daniel Jackson ascended twice < 1281310821 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: He came back in the next season :P < 1281310823 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the second time, not quite, I think < 1281310827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: >_< < 1281310834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at one point he disappeared and somebody replaced him. < 1281310838 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Pretend that season doesn't exist. < 1281310846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1281310855 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The guy who replaced him is a Scientologist whose real name is more alien than his alien name :P < 1281310862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281310868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, "Corin Nemec". < 1281310869 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you don't get to see the many deaths of O'Neill! < 1281310897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION double-checks his spelling < 1281310902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I didn't even realise he was an alien. Apparently "alien" means "identical to human". < 1281310909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't even have forehead ridges! < 1281310917 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Alien in the sense that if you moved to the US, you'd be an alien. He's human. < 1281310927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhhhhhhh. < 1281310931 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, more alien than that, he's not from Earth :P < 1281310933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that makes much more sense XD < 1281310934 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he is human. < 1281310944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most aliens are human < 1281310950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always been uncomfortable with this humans-are-everywhere thing. < 1281310962 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the reasons why Stargate: SG-1 was good is that the aliens looked human because they WERE human, and the truly alien aliens didn't look human. < 1281310966 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SG:A ruined that. < 1281310972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the aliens-are-humanoid thing too. But that's to, you know, be practical to film. < 1281310974 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it backpatched a cheesy explanation. < 1281310994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jaffa cakes < 1281310997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LULZ < 1281311002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1281311002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/Teal'c.jpg < 1281311004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teal'c smiling < 1281311007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be prepared to scream < 1281311016 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teal'c is not a vulcan :P < 1281311025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but he also never smiles < 1281311029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And NOW I KNOW WHY < 1281311041 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1281311047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what was SGA's explanation? Humans evolved similarly to the ancients? Are the humans in Pegasus not actually human, but decended from ancients, or...? < 1281311068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, he tells jokes! < 1281311079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with abandoning the "aliens are pretty similar to humans" thing is that... well, you can't really make a long-lasting TV series out of Solaris. < 1281311091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka6tvlewO3c < 1281311095 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sapiens were seeded to evolve as they did by the ancients. The Wraith are half-human. < 1281311103 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: All very cheesy. < 1281311119 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: See, but that's why SG-1 was good: It had an explanation that made sense, AND didn't require crazy costumes. < 1281311137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But OTOH, humans are not very interesting aliens. < 1281311148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And indeed, they aren't the interesting aliens. < 1281311152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They're the slave race. < 1281311160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Trek, with its "fuck it, let's just make them humanoid" attitude, produces more interesting aliens. < 1281311162 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the goa'uld are, and they're parasites so they can be played by humans! < 1281311178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... now try adding more aliens after you run out of plotlines. < 1281311184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Asgard were also pretty awesome. < 1281311199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't get me wrong, I think Stargate is probably the most sci-fi of the sci-fi franchises out there. < 1281311200 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *BOOM* < 1281311221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I'd be pretty ticked by the Asuran replicators if they didn't say "most efficient form *that they knew*" < 1281311229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Asgard were just Greys < 1281311230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, there are still some out there < 1281311236 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Still awesome. < 1281311238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Greys are NOT COOL < 1281311243 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shhhh, don't give away SG:A plots :P < 1281311248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Norse! Greys! < 1281311260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, yeah. It's a concept that works well for about a reasonable show's length... < 1281311278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a stupid fucking GCSE English essay to be done by stupid fucking tomorrow demanded by my stupid fucking ex-teacher. < 1281311279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FML < 1281311281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making another *show* of it requires, well, bizarre writing hacks. < 1281311292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see: SGA, SGU) < 1281311316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone should watch SGA "Irresistible" < 1281311319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course a /true/ sci-fi series has an infinite budget by definition and can represent all these aliens. < 1281311319 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SG:U could have had potential ... but they went all soap-opera. < 1281311329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Farscape? < 1281311332 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281311336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sad to hear that; the one I watched was pretty cool. < 1281311353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, that had lots of humanoid aliens too. < 1281311354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1281311358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: Why is it that sci-fi writers, when trying to give something an exotic name, simply pick the least common letters in English and then add apostrophes? < 1281311364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, come ON. It is not fucking hard to avoid that cliche. < 1281311376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many sci-fi writers are completely unaware of linguistics. < 1281311393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the aliens can pronounce sounds like ours, they can pronounce a regular-ish name; if they can't, you can't give them a name like that. < 1281311406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But even the most idiotic sci-fi reader can see that it's a cliche! < 1281311410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281311422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This, incidentally, is the thing that annoys me most about Niven. < 1281311458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe regular-ish sounds are reserved for non-names? < 1281311463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His alien names are random letters and apostrophes. (well, except when he opts for not-sucky names.) < 1281311469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Maybe no. < 1281311547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Chmeee" is a solidly meh name. Speaker-to-Animals is just somewhat interesting.) < 1281311605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just invent a rudimentary alphabet and then specify the sounds, to be done as SFX. < 1281311671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fun fact: The first posted copyright-violation report was made by "Chuq Von Rospach", the first of June, 1986, on the posting of Niven's "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex", and it was even more self-righteous than the copyright defenders are today: http://groups.google.com/group/net.comics/msg/22a6091beb0762eb < 1281311690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I also suggest < 1281311691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the person involved contact Larry Niven with an apology, and see what < 1281311691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be done to minimize the damage." < 1281311697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, earlier: < 1281311703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"by < 1281311707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving the copyright notices off you have possibly put the work into the < 1281311707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public domain and infringed on Niven's rights to potential future earnings." <-- LOL WUT < 1281311729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely e means that some may mistake it for being in the public domain? < 1281311739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Npe. < 1281311741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Nope. < 1281311780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> >This article is not in the puiblic domain.  Mr. Crist has commiteed a crime < 1281311780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> >by publishing it without permission. < 1281311780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how absolutely DISGUSTED they are. < 1281311780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Again, I recommend seriously that all System Administrators find the < 1281311780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :offending copy of this article and delete it from their systems. All people < 1281311781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who made copies of the story should destroy them." < 1281311812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1281311818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he quotes the anarchist cookbook in his sig < 1281311825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that was before how widely understood it was that you can't really remove stuff from the Internet? < 1281311856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1281311857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1281311866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sorry, what was that about Farscape? < 1281311871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You could remove things from Usenet. < 1281311878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sysadmins, remember. < 1281311891 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But someone would surely just post it again < 1281311914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Posts can be cancelled. etc. < 1281311942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and another thing ... why can't "serious" sci-fi shows just use the word "fuck" instead of coming up with shitty alien words for it? < 1281311995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :US prudishness. < 1281312019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fuck" would be bleeped. < 1281312026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait ... even after 8/9 pm? < 1281312028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281312031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1281312035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT?! < 1281312037 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they haven't got a watershed in the US IIRC < 1281312049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait ... didn't that show The Wire have a fuckton of profanity? < 1281312059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had a fuckton of bleeps. < 1281312063 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*****ton < 1281312070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1281312071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the smeg i know < 1281312080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The difference being that Red Dwarf was comedy. :P < 1281312089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So ... uh ... how do you guys even ... television ... the? < 1281312105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most bizarre thing being that this is also done on cable TV. < 1281312112 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall reading that it was partially due to the US having about 5 timezones, but that might be excuse-making. < 1281312115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Which has absolutely no such regulations at all. < 1281312160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But ... why? < 1281312197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGA had a character say "ass" in front of a toddler. That caught me offguard < 1281312199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Okay, imagine the oldest, most crotchety, conservative person you know. < 1281312203 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the US is very conservative. That's what it comes down to. < 1281312208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These people vote in droves. < 1281312219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And complain in droves. < 1281312219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But if there isn't a law for it for cable TV... < 1281312242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They file complaints like crazy to the cable companies and the networks. < 1281312252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iiiii want to cryyyy < 1281312255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In short: our old folk are fucking noisy and irritating. < 1281312265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you guys allowed to be the biggest superpower? < 1281312268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except maybe China. < 1281312274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so our television censors based on 1920s social mores. < 1281312279 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, on TV Tropes there are various references to films actively trying to avoid an NC-17 rating as if it would make it worthless, which is treated as normal. < 1281312304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a film is rated NC-17 in the US, it basically will not be seen. < 1281312323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have frontal nudity in a non-NC-17 movie < 1281312325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1281312327 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile an 18 rating is commonplace in the UK. < 1281312334 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, same with an 18. < 1281312343 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get away with it in a PG, actually. < 1281312348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not because it's been banned, but because almost no stores will carry it and no theatres will carry it. < 1281312352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: ... *PG*. < 1281312362 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Manon de Sources. Arty. < 1281312365 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And French. < 1281312372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Redundant. < 1281312375 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1281312399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah... typical film ratings here are 12A (basically PG), 15 and 18. < 1281312411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any "serious" film will be 15 or 18, most likely. < 1281312412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, full frontal nudity will not make it NC-17 unless the crotchety old bastards on the rating panel feel it's too much. < 1281312422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, U and PG are common, as well as plain 12. < 1281312443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: We have G, PG, PG-13, R, (effective censorship) NC-17 < 1281312468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're fucking crazy! I'm crying! < 1281312473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it isn't even 17+, it's 18+. < 1281312481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1281312485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R and NC-17 are *both* 18+. < 1281312486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BBFC system is something like Uc, U, PG, 12A, 12, 15, 18, R18. < 1281312487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a stupid fucking name for 18+. < 1281312499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But a 3-year-old can watch an R movie with a parent, right? < 1281312502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281312505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1281312506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madness. < 1281312507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is true in the UK. < 1281312509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with NC-17, actually. < 1281312512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1281312515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1281312516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No one 17 and under admitted" < 1281312519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would seem to imply not. < 1281312521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1281312526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it be 21+, to reflect the USA's fucking crazy moral system? < 1281312530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R- Restricted (1968–present) < 1281312530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under 17 requires accompanying by a parent or adult guardian < 1281312530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NC-17- No One 17 and Under Admitted (1990–present) < 1281312532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION did not like being forced to see R movies < 1281312532 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 12A is the only one where an adult changes things. < 1281312540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moot point though, because no film is released NC-17. < 1281312542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, being forced anywhere, for that matte < 1281312544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*matter < 1281312554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apart from porn? < 1281312571 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so it goes G, R? < 1281312571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No. Rating is not mandatory. < 1281312573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a film *were* to be NC-17, it will instead opt for being unrated. < 1281312581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1281312588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will stop anyone from seeing it, right? < 1281312590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madness^2. < 1281312605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You forgot PG, PG-13. < 1281312607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, probably isn't mandatory like the BBFC. < 1281312612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The BBFC system is something like Uc, U, PG, 12A, 12, 15, 18, R18. < 1281312618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R18 is porn, isn't it? < 1281312621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rating is entirely optional. < 1281312623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we don't have PG-13 in the UK, or I've never seen it. < 1281312625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More or less.) < 1281312626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes. < 1281312627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's done by the MPAA. < 1281312637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Eh? I thought you meant the US systems. < 1281312640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Went G, R. < 1281312647 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1281312657 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant the BBFC comment. < 1281312673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, G, PG, PG-13, R. < 1281312685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, G is the rating for something that even the most crazy "think of the children" type folk wouldn't be offended by. < 1281312704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what Die Hard was rated as in the US < 1281312712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PG is vaguely serious stuff, but for the most part quite appropriate for children. < 1281312713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, your system is saner in one way (that all the ratings that are actually used can be overriden by a parent) < 1281312713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an 18 here, so... < 1281312716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PG-13 is that with cussing. < 1281312720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did Avatar: The Last Airbender get the TV equivalent of G? < 1281312732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: TV ratings are different. < 1281312732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is Gc really a rating in the true sense? < 1281312742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gc is exactly the same as G, just saying "hey, children will like this". < 1281312745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is that with more violence and room for nudity. < 1281312749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uc? Well, not really. It was for completeness. < 1281312753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...TV HAS RATINGS IN THE US??? < 1281312761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Entirely optional as well. < 1281312769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it basically does here, if you count the watershed. < 1281312770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And literally only exists as suggestions. < 1281312776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only people who give ratings for TV in the UK are ... some TV guides. < 1281312795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ironically, we *still* have no cursing on TV. < 1281312798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the watershed should just be abolished and the main channels won't show hugely edgy stuff in the kinds of slots children etc. will be watching anyway. < 1281312804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "ass" isn't a curse? < 1281312809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... No. < 1281312815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither is "damn" nor "hell". < 1281312815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it matter all that much? < 1281312827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, not really. < 1281312830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ass will still get bleeped. < 1281312833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ... < 1281312835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're joking. < 1281312840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, FFS. < 1281312850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't watched much SG-1/SGA on the TV < 1281312856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Hulu/YouTube < 1281312878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: As will "shit", "piss", "fuck", "cunt", "cocksucker", "motherfucker" and "tits". < 1281312879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, question: do the non-TV releases of shows have the cursing? < 1281312896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I, too, understand references! < 1281312919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot believe you can't say "tits" on US TV... hahahahahahaha you're crazy. < 1281312922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ... I'm not even joking. I know I'm referring to a joke, but I'm not even joking. < 1281312923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, can you say "cock" but not "cocksucker"? < 1281312940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281312940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "You are a person who sucks cocks" is okay but not "You are a cocksucker"? < 1281312943 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: really? that stuff gets bleeped out for you? < 1281312950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "motherfucker" comes above "fuck" in the BBC's List Of Forbidden Words. < 1281312954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes. The US is motherfucking insane. < 1281312981 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1281312982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, "motherfucker" comes above anything else in the List. < 1281312994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Link me? < 1281312997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, in searching for it I found THIS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7949077.stm < 1281313010 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuckety fuck. < 1281313012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it was anecdotal and in print. < 1281313012 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuckety fuck! < 1281313013 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a watershed, it's not as strong afterwards as in the UK, but we certainly can hear swear words < 1281313015 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fucky fuck fuck fuck! < 1281313026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our game ratings are *also* absurd. < 1281313053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In what, the Sun? :-) < 1281313074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course not. Possibly one of the Guardian's array of supplements. < 1281313091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Guardian/Grauniad/ < 1281313094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eC, E, E10 < 1281313102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eC, E, E10+, T, M, AO. < 1281313115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, doesn't seem *that* absurd. < 1281313128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Early Childhood", "Everyone", "Everyone 10+", "Teen", "Mature" (17+), "Adult Only" < 1281313130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AO is reserved exclusively for Anarchy Online. < 1281313133 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the UK they just extend the film ratings. < 1281313149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some European system. < 1281313158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, we use the European system now. < 1281313169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I uninstalled AO recently, to make space < 1281313176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The suggested ages being: 3-10, 6+, 10+, 13+, 17+, 18+. < 1281313181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only tried it once, remember nothing :( < 1281313182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where be the insanity? < 1281313193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The ratings are *also* done by old crotchety bastards. < 1281313199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although 17+ and 18+ is ridiculously stupid. < 1281313227 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few games have AO ratings because they're basically impossible to secure retailers for < 1281313251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Persona 3. CERO B, ESRB M. < 1281313253 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ah. < 1281313254 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /me hates retailers who won't sell T or M games to people underage laiming it's the law < 1281313256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've got to know: what kind of 18+ material exists in today's society that the average (18-n)-year-old can't stand? < 1281313274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it really hard to believe that the average 16, 17 year old hasn't Already Seen That Shit. Probably even 15-year-old. < 1281313285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rhetorical question, naturally.) < 1281313292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, something you guys call "appropriate for 12+" is on our highest-effective-rating. < 1281313298 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's not to say they won't rate them AO - they have on occasion - but that the game manufacturers will then do everything to get them down < 1281313299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Sorry, that's Japan. < 1281313305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEGI, 12+ < 1281313315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same rating meaning, at least. < 1281313331 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*claiming < 1281313351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hmm. Well, there's probably some stuff that'd make them lose their lunch... < 1281313361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But said stuff would do the same to the same person at 18+, so. < 1281313371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely. < 1281313385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I always find myself orienting to a more conservative mindset in these matters? Intellectually, I agree with you all, but still, it feels.. weird, the idea of swearing not necessarily being something that needs to be shielded from kids < 1281313390 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the US have the weird habit of viewing sex as worse than violence? < 1281313401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Outside of the US, swearing is not considered weird to expose to kids. < 1281313404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1281313422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure nobody would object to a parent saying "Shit!" due to a minor injury. < 1281313440 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a mildly-valid slippery-slope argument, but... ugh < 1281313444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Dude, kids hear cursing. It's really not a big deal. Unless you're 60+ or a neocon. < 1281313457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, intellectually I agree, but... < 1281313461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OTOH, having something really offensive to say when you type an extra space in "rm -r * ~" is helpful. < 1281313467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cursing is dumb anyways < 1281313468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, get over your stupid US-based prejudices. < 1281313475 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the notion of it, I mean) < 1281313483 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ^ < 1281313495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: R is the first rating where nudity or sex can be depicted at all on film ratings. < 1281313504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gore etc? < 1281313518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And this literally cannot be shown over the air. < 1281313521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine for teenagers < 1281313535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, no, that's the point. < 1281313559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using it randomly leaves you with nothing to say when things go really badly wrong. < 1281313561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and de facto can't be shown on cable TV) < 1281313562 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, I mean that's fine for teenagers in the US < 1281313577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: People do object to this. < 1281313584 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the notion of a word to express strong discontent is fine < 1281313590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do object to? < 1281313594 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's why I don't swear often < 1281313604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the notion that certain words are inherently bad is ridiculous < 1281313606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Cursing in front of a child. At all. < 1281313610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah. < 1281313615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear a lot on the internet, barely ever in person. < 1281313624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In person they just seem ... unnerving, somehow. < 1281313628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I talk pretty much the same IRL as I do in person. So. < 1281313632 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to avoid swearing in public < 1281313634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "over the air" being broadcast terrestrially? < 1281313638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no kidding? < 1281313639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, off-hand swearing puts me off-guard. < 1281313639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1281313647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no kidding what? < 1281313652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the word "fuck" will corrupt a child's mind for all eternity. < 1281313659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As will seeing a nipple. < 1281313659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq> I talk pretty much the same IRL as I do in person. So. < 1281313661 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1281313665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm pretty sure that's true. < 1281313669 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's what you get with *swearing*? < 1281313678 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more willing to swear online than in person < 1281313680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1281313684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hense why I said no kidding < 1281313689 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I certainly don't do it casually < 1281313690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah. < 1281313693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everyone does. < 1281313696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People don't say "u" in person. < 1281313704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1281313711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once saw someone on TV Tropes express surprise that "sod" wasn't bleeped. < 1281313713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what it says again < 1281313721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1281313724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1281313729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sod*. It's like "damn" or "hell". < 1281313740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sod damn it to hell. < 1281313755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Yes, I would actually have said "IRL" there if around people who would have known the acronym without even thinking of it. < 1281313762 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, me too < 1281313767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lolll < 1281313772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it again < 1281313777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carefully < 1281313780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: *Wow*. < 1281313791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slow today. < 1281313794 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281313798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow at what? < 1281313802 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've complained about RL graphics before < 1281313803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have totally made that slip IRL, though. :P < 1281313851 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1281313851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you say "eerc" at the start of sentences? < 1281313864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1281313865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeerk? < 1281313885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IIRC" funeticly. < 1281313944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. TV ratings in the US are: Y, Y7, Y7-FV, G, PG, 14, MA. "Young", "Young, 7+", "Young, 7+, with Fantasy Violence", "General audience", "Parental Guidance suggested", "14+", "17+". < 1281313945 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say "if I recall correctly" ... < 1281313959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fantasy violence"? < 1281313974 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fantasy violence is hitting a pirate with a frying pan < 1281313976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Orc blood is clearly more scarring than man blood". < 1281313982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/more/less/ < 1281313999 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover : That's why Klingons had pink blood in Star Trek VI < 1281314001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, no. "Looney Tunes is clearly more scarring than Barney." < 1281314007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/scarring/delicious/ < 1281314021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always wince slightly when people star out "hell" and "damn". < 1281314034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I consider "IIRC" as a logograph. < 1281314035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And get an impulse to hit the people who did it. < 1281314056 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a yuropian, I find weird the whole taboo on hell and damn < 1281314066 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But well, our nations weren't founded by puritans < 1281314087 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that probably doesn't mean much because Australia is even crazier in censorship < 1281314104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should amuse you, though, to note that other than at the very low ranges of our ratings, violence is *perfectly* acceptable pretty much of the time. < 1281314109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, yes. You would have thought that criminals would be cool about that. < 1281314112 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so are you going to censor me censoring d*mn? < 1281314125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/d*mn/damn/ < 1281314133 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I shall focus the Device on you. < 1281314152 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A decapitation is better than an asscrack < 1281314161 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coördinates? < 1281314175 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover : This isn't the 20's < 1281314177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, an episode of The Nanny had an asscrack in it iirc < 1281314178 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No diaresis < 1281314190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, look what Slereah said < 1281314191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the film a gigantic shootout? PG! Add a nipple? R! Add a suggestion of someone having sex outside of the missionary position? BANNED! < 1281314209 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooooo, not the nipple! < 1281314231 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is strange, because babies see nipples all the time < 1281314235 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They eat from them! < 1281314246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: The US has breast-feeding as a rarity. < 1281314252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... No. < 1281314269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, dö nöt ïnsült thë dïärësïs. < 1281314280 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lovecraft used diaresis :3 < 1281314285 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1281314287 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aroport < 1281314303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dïärësës. < 1281314313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves the compose key. < 1281314334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover : That's why Klingons had pink blood in Star Trek VI < 1281314335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1281314347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VI is 6, so good. < 1281314358 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1281314364 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other episodes, it's red < 1281314375 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they had to change it for rating purpose, IIRC < 1281314378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover : This isn't the 20's No diaresis < 1281314380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1281314390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Eh, an episode of The Nanny had an asscrack in it iirc <-- And you'd know, because you watched VERY CLOSELY. < 1281314412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, The Undiscovered Country was great. < 1281314415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Slereah: The US has breast-feeding as a rarity. < 1281314415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So... No. < 1281314429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaaaa? < 1281314430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you're kidding. < 1281314442 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a total taboo on breastfeeding? < 1281314448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not breastfeeding is considerd severely irresponsible in the UK. < 1281314462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, America is now disqualified from the world. < 1281314465 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B21764D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281314484 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares to seal the IB < 1281314487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course there would be one. < 1281314490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone seen Star Trek (2009)? < 1281314497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It involves showing babies BREASTS. < 1281314498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1281314500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes < 1281314502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: International Baccalaureate? < 1281314507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: International Boundary < 1281314512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: coppro: Is it any good> < 1281314513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the only one I have seen < 1281314514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good? < 1281314515 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE that big curved line < 1281314516 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes. < 1281314521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: worth watching < 1281314521 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise : Yes < 1281314523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Presumably you've seen other Trek series, though. < 1281314527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1281314530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wha?! < 1281314535 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing I most remember from Star Trek XI is < 1281314549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen all the ST movies except 6 < 1281314552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Prescription: The Next Generation. Yes, all of it. Well. You can skip everything with beardless Riker and Wesley. < 1281314553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not a taboo, but baby formula is the norm. < 1281314556 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At one point, they send on a mission Sulu, Kirk, and some guy in a red suit < 1281314556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By far the norm. < 1281314558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now shoo, go watch it. < 1281314560 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I thought < 1281314560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's crazy. < 1281314563 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Red guy is gonna die" < 1281314565 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1281314568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it was never on, so I never watched it. < 1281314570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it is. < 1281314571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: And he did, don't spoil it. :P < 1281314581 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise : It's really not a spoiler < 1281314586 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's Star Trek < 1281314587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Virgin 1 show TNG, DS9 and Voyager every day... :P < 1281314591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: True dat < 1281314594 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red suits die if they go on a mission < 1281314601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've seen all the ST movies except 6 < 1281314602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch it < 1281314603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very good < 1281314607 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know that I should < 1281314608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, red SHIRTS. < 1281314610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's the only Trek film I've seen) < 1281314622 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise : Watch Star Trek 4 and 8 < 1281314624 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're the best < 1281314636 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is First Contact? < 1281314641 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281314646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1281314649 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defs watch < 1281314667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all know the formula, right? < 1281314669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's recorded on the Sky+ box downstairs. < 1281314673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Only works if you add Galaxy Quest. < 1281314675 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not watch 5 except under duress < 1281314675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/odd < 1281314680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I know. < 1281314684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get Nemesis and (2009) correct < 1281314690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trekGoodness :: Int -> Bool < 1281314693 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Galaxy Quest is also p. good < 1281314694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one's 5? < 1281314703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The Final Frontier < 1281314704 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 is the one considered bad < 1281314707 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked it, though < 1281314713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shatner wrote The Final Frontier. < 1281314720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure Shatner is a fucking terrible writer. < 1281314720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trekGoodness no = if no `mod` 2 == 1 then True else False < 1281314725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... < 1281314731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trekGoodness = even < 1281314736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also: < 1281314737 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover : what about 10 < 1281314739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1281314740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "if x then True else False" < 1281314752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Galaxy Quest must be counted as #10 < 1281314755 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, cut me some slack! < 1281314758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost wrote code like that recently < 1281314759 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clever. < 1281314767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's #11: Nemesis, bad, #12: (2009), good < 1281314780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I wrote in in like 5 seconds in a tiny single line IRC box. < 1281314798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was never going to be best practice. < 1281314805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It annoys me to no end that the HDTV is downstairs. >_> < 1281314816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, I wrote lists in cpp on an /iPhone/ in a mental institution. < 1281314821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I cut no slack :P < 1281314828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On one line, too. In IRC. < 1281314835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, you're God. < 1281314839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, pssh. < 1281314860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once wrote a full kernel by whistling down a phone! < 1281314861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.littlespikeyland.com/st_odd_even.php < 1281314863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Therefore we can be 99% confident that the odd and even films represent two different classes of films, with the even films being the "better" of the two sets." < 1281314867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay, Joybubbles. < 1281314870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I love having worshippers. < 1281314887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(totally cheating though, that analysis) < 1281314904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, more Trek opinions needed: < 1281314910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enterprise: good series, bad series? < 1281314947 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock connected? Or is it some other two movies that are connected? < 1281314959 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2-4 are all direct sequels < 1281314967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to sleep < 1281314972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESS FILIMING MORE RATING SERIESING < 1281314972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281314995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, afaik, Enterprise is widely hated < 1281315000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never saw an episode myself though < 1281315004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty bad < 1281315010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1281315015 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know < 1281315025 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't care for the Wrath of Khan all that much < 1281315031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep Space Nine: good series, bad series? < 1281315045 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS9 has good and bad in it < 1281315049 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I love Ricardo Montalban < 1281315051 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But well < 1281315053 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as wildly varying as voyager < 1281315056 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on average better < 1281315067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a litmus test, I despise DS9. :P < 1281315076 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what's terrible, though? < 1281315079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's /saner/ than Voyager, but... < 1281315081 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The animated series. < 1281315081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so fucking boring! < 1281315093 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The animated series is all that's bad about Star Trek. < 1281315095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061122013747/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/0/0c/KIRK_IS_A_JERK.jpg/292px-KIRK_IS_A_JERK.jpg < 1281315114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't the holodeck introduced in the animated series? < 1281315121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "rec room" was. < 1281315122 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the whole, I'd say DS9 > VOY < 1281315129 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, iunno < 1281315130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, TNG is the one that really defined the holodeck. < 1281315144 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that I regret is that M'ress was only in the animated series < 1281315149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If you have an attention span the length of ... something long. < 1281315168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Furrrrryyyyy < 1281315173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, broken link < 1281315177 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mimg.ugo.com/200901/14973/mress.jpg < 1281315177 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1281315180 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hit it. < 1281315180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Is not < 1281315188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: * > VOY < 1281315200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nonono, Voyager has great merit because it's fucking hilarious, always. < 1281315203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even watching Threshold is great. < 1281315218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm afraid I find myself groaning instead. < 1281315239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: The animated series had some good moments. And a lot of corny moments. < 1281315246 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1281315257 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the most telling episode is the one where they go into a universe < 1281315260 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where there's MAGIC < 1281315261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, though, it's TOS with worse production values. < 1281315269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like TOS much. < 1281315269 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Spock has to do a spell < 1281315276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Roddenberry was a very good writer, I have to admit. < 1281315276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if such a thing was possible) < 1281315282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too idealistic. < 1281315290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love TNG. < 1281315291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: TOS, again, has its moments and a lot of corn. < 1281315296 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favorite episodes are the time travel episodes < 1281315299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNG is absolutely amazing. < 1281315301 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I loved 4 and 8 < 1281315308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a digital remaster thing of TOS airing on one of the CBS channels over here. < 1281315311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's awful. < 1281315313 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, TNG also had stupid episodes < 1281315316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't digitally remaster cardboard. < 1281315319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just feels still and ... weird. < 1281315320 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the one where they all become children < 1281315335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but TOS had more stupid episodes than good ones. < 1281315343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNG is as good as Trek gets. < 1281315347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the good ones are, themselves, filled with a lot of corn. < 1281315348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is "a bit above mediocre". < 1281315367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, most sci-fi you see is "almost unbearable crap". < 1281315368 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, it has Data <3 < 1281315371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So TNG is very good. < 1281315384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm with Slereah < 1281315404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find a nice Data quote to mark the mention of his name < 1281315427 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One is my name, and the other isn't." < 1281315440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for a script < 1281315444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, a script. < 1281315495 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lot of _anythng_ is crap. < 1281315500 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anything < 1281315516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O'Brien: We're all going to be burning the midnight oil on this one. / Data: That would be inadvisable. If you attempt to ignite a petroleum product on this ship at zero-hundred hours, it will activate the fire suppression system, which will seal off this entire compartment. / [...] / Data: Ah. Then "to burn the midnight oil" implies late work? < 1281315521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon after: < 1281315537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data: This will require a completely new field induction subprocessor. It appears that we will be required to... ignite the midnight petroleum, sir. < 1281315564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data would have been a much better character if the Trek writers had any sense of what an emotionless, rational, but still human-intelligence robot would be like :P < 1281315569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, uh < 1281315572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More tautological than I intended. < 1281315579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes, but more bad sci-fi gets published/etc. < 1281315593 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise : Iunno < 1281315605 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He would not have been as endearing if he actually had no emotions < 1281315625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True... < 1281315628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still. < 1281315634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes he's not very logical ... at all. < 1281315645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact come to think of it he's basically a Vulcan who talks weird. < 1281315686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Vulcans themselves are not exactly logical. < 1281315687 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, most of the TNG cast was just TOS with different actors < 1281315710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider their claims of this to just be religious assertations. < 1281315716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, claims. < 1281315720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: One thing I've always been uneasy about: canon states they learned to "suppress" emotions. < 1281315721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assertions. < 1281315725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they still have all these emotions, they just ... bottle them up? < 1281315729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's gotta be really unhealthy. < 1281315739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Picard was a way better captain than Kirk though < 1281315746 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why the Vulkan in Star Trek 5 was all crazy < 1281315755 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just lets out his emotions, and BAM! < 1281315757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Vulkan" < 1281315766 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fifty years of bottled emotions come out < 1281315772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, the quality of that cleaned-up TNG rip is pretty good. < 1281315782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's still... very soft, you know, but that's just how it was filmed. < 1281315790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No artifacts or anything. < 1281315835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, TNG from season 2 onwards is good. Preferably without Wesley. Definitely not anywhere where Wesley saves the day. < 1281315846 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wesley is the worst < 1281315853 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With his faggy rainbow sweater < 1281315867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Wil Wheaton hated Wesley. < 1281315873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked The Game < 1281315878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: FUCK YOU < 1281315885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Example of the correct use of profanity. < 1281315886 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then again, I haven't seen that many Wesley saves the day eps, so < 1281315907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Game" < 1281315914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1281315920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, thank you very much < 1281315928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wesley was by far the worse character on TNG. < 1281315949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Wesley do something that got someone killed? < 1281315959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God damned Gene Wesley Roddenberry. < 1281315967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah: being that annoying can kill. < 1281315979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: I thought Chekov was French. < 1281315980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No joke. < 1281315992 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuclearrr wessels < 1281315992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was such a smooth Frenchman, too, right up until I realised his name was "Chekov". < 1281315996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1281316016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not like they could actually get a *Russian* to do the role. < 1281316021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Cold War and all. < 1281316033 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that was the point of Star Trek :o < 1281316042 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To present a perfect future where everyone is at peace < 1281316045 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except aliens < 1281316047 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck aliens < 1281316070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, an American played Chekov in (2009), too. < 1281316070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't mind if I do! < 1281316073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281316105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Some of Wesley's The Wesley-ness is accidental: Six scripts had been drafted for the "Wesley saves the day" plot, with the intention that the best elements of each would be combined to make one character-focus episode on Wesley — none of them were especially good, but it was hoped that there would be enough good material between them to make a single episode. A writer's strike dried up the supply of scripts for the first season, so all six d < 1281316107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Which aliens are we talkking about here? < 1281316112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1281316120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "all six d--" but I get the jist. Ha. < 1281316129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gist < 1281316165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *talking < 1281316185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'[...] so all six drafts were completed and produced, at which point Wesley's characterization was firmly entrenched. ' < 1281316233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wouldn't that make that badness just a season 1 thing? < 1281316255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because Wesley continued being Wesley until he left. < 1281316329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that just made Season 1 all the worse. < 1281316384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even non-Wesley, bearded-Riker episodes can be really bad. e.g. Sub Rosa. < 1281316493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but a Wesley episode is instabad. As is babyface Riker. < 1281316518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe eliminating Deanna-focused episodes would trim it down to almost universally good. < 1281316558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, Troi. < 1281316566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The character who had *no reason to exist*. < 1281316572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sub Rosa was Troi-focused, for instance. < 1281316594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell would you need a *counselor* on the bridge at all times? < 1281316622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: Computer, what day is it? < 1281316622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer: The first day of the rest of your life. < 1281316622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: GRRRRR.... < 1281316622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Troi: It's Stardate 47988, Captain. < 1281316622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: *Thank* you, Counsellor. At last your genius for stating the obvious has come in useful. < 1281316623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Five-Minute "All Good Things..." < 1281316626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And she didn't even... Counsel. < 1281316645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Worf is the one who actually says it in the episode. :P) < 1281316702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Picard: Yes... yes, of course. It's all coming back now. I'm readjusting to this time -- < 1281316702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: -- period. Dammit! < 1281316703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yar: I'm sorry, sir, I'm afraid I don't understand. Are you swearing about punctuation or feminine problems? < 1281316703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: Tasha! You're alive! < 1281316703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yar: Um... that's correct, sir. < 1281316704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: At last. I've always wanted to tell you how much I miss -- < 1281316706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: -- your presence on the bridge. < 1281316710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Troi: It is? Really? Oh, Captain, you remembered my birthday! I'll go get it right away! < 1281316712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: This had better be the last time we do that gag.]] < 1281316714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dammit, I'll end up quoting the entire thing again if I don't stop. < 1281316716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here: http://www.fiveminute.net/nextgen/fiver.php?ep=allgoodthings < 1281316722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like twenty-minute "All Good Things...", though. < 1281316729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't she useful in Encounter at Farpoint? < 1281316738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Note: I've only seen a part of that ep] < 1281316747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever counselling was done in TNG, it was *Guinan*... < 1281316749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1281316752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- your presence on the bridge" -> "your present's on the bridge" has to be the cheesiest thing I've ever seen. < 1281316768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I didn't even notice that >.> < 1281316773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It took me a while. < 1281316798 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281316804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You may forget all parts of Encounter at Farpoint which did not have Q. < 1281316815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit Libertine's Q is hot. < 1281316818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qu Qu Qu Qu < 1281317119 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281317141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: "Te'arl grayaucht" means "[Colour of tea] bitter water" in Picardian. < 1281317172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is "bloody" bleeped on US TV? < 1281317236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, afaik, but I've never heard it used < 1281317243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very British word < 1281317260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed; Scotty says it in an episode of TNG, at least, which was broadcast on US TV, obviously. < 1281317278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody and naff are the greatest British English-only words there are. < 1281317326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to be that bloody not used in that context isn't particularly British < 1281317361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that meaning. < 1281317699 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I actually use "bloody" all the time. < 1281317728 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what "naff" means though, so *eh* < 1281317742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naff is ... rubbish, in a way, but more British. < 1281317759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "supremely mediocre" if it was an active badness rather than a passive... middleness. < 1281317763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ineffectual. < 1281317763 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rubbish" is already pretty British. < 1281317771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but even more British. < 1281317805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you look at a new language that's almost exactly like Python or whatever, just cleaned up slightly and with some boring new features, and it makes you go "bleh" and "meh" and "feh" when looking at it... if it's not terrible, it's naff. < 1281317809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently in (certain parts of) Canada they use "litter" to mean what Americans mean when they say "garbage" and what Brits mean when they say "rubbish", rather than what either of us mean when we say "litter". < 1281317828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/naff#Adjective < 1281317967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :narf? < 1281317986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Narf?"? < 1281318008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows 1 TV show that alise has never heard of < 1281318042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Pinky and the Brain. < 1281318049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just didn't recognise the reference. Yes, of course I know of Pinky and the Brain. < 1281319212 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281319729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise subscribe: Chat do: [ :ann | self say: ann text ]. < 1281319798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh. < 1281320882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In contrast to the US' cursing conservatism, the word "bollocks" was deemed to be acceptable in "Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols". < 1281320887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the UK, of course) < 1281321024 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bollocks" is acceptable on TV at any time here :P < 1281321029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's, like, not even a word here. < 1281321065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bollocks to that. < 1281321080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite offensive here. < 1281321100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"logorrhoea" is actually a term, AWESOME < 1281321318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scared_Straight! ;; "fuck" broadcast on US TV in 1978 < 1281321729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I've seen "bloody" rated Y. < 1281321769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I do use "bloody". < 1281321780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was aware of "naff" but never used it myself. < 1281321806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scared_Straight! ;; "fuck" broadcast on US TV in 1978 < 1281321807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANSWER THIS < 1281321817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Predates FCC obscenity rules! < 1281321820 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does floating point use a binary exponent? why not use something like 10 or 16? < 1281321828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But Carlin said you couldn't say "fuck" beforehand! < 1281321833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: cuz computers use binary. < 1281321849 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: duh.. not really an answer < 1281321852 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1281321853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Sometime after he made that joke, *they decided to use that list*. < 1281321872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: well 16 is equivalent to binary for this purpose < 1281321876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still doesn't know the recommended way to do callback stuff in Squeak < 1281321887 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not really.. 16 gives a larger range < 1281321904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When he had started making that joke, there were no country-wide regulations on it... < 1281321930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he was sometimes arrested *for giving that joke*... < 1281321931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: but you'd get less precision for numbers of the form 1. ... * 16^n < 1281321946 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you? < 1281321960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest we use base 1 for the exponent < 1281321964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the best of all worlds, really < 1281321979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: *Oh god*. The FCC settled on that list because Carlin's routine was put on the radio and a *single person* was offended that his son heard such filth. < 1281322033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single person that complained, you mean < 1281322043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1281322084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Because of this mess, all live broadcasts in the US are actually on a delay so they can bleep. < 1281322109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ever since the nipple-slip and Bono saying "fuck" on live TV...) < 1281322136 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1281322142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: the mantissa would have to be 1 <= m < 16, if you then have a fixed number of bits after the point then the higher numbers would have less precision compared to in binary. < 1281322150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1281322154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lower numbers < 1281322157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro becomeForward: nil. < 1281322209 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess I'm confused then < 1281322233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Last Christmas, when the whole "X-Factor (music reality show thing here) contestant winner" vs "really old Rage Against the Machine single" battle for the Christmas #1 space on the charts was ongoing (this actually happened, I am not shitting you: Rage Against the Machine won!), Rage Against the Machine were asked to play the song live on radio; it ends with a succession of lines that use the word "fuck" rather a lot. This was in the day time; they h < 1281322233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ad been asked ... not to include that part. They included it. All that happened was a fadeout and the presenters going "Bad band! Bad!". What would the reaction in the US be? Nuclear fallout? < 1281322238 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to change floating point so that I could have 8 digits of decimal precision in 32 bits < 1281322281 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't able to do it until I change it from 2^x to 10^x < 1281322293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts assassination of everyone in #squeak < 1281322303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Fines, fines, more fines, and a possible loss of broadcasting license. < 1281322313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, in the news, nuclear fallout. < 1281322318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I may have killed everyone on IRC < 1281322323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1281322327 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lives! < 1281322341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We fucking remember someone's nipple being shown on TV for a few seconds, for crissake... < 1281322349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, frames. < 1281322370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid nipple decoration thingy < 1281322370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1281322412 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow.. it seems like I can leave 28 bits for the number and 4 bits for placing the decimal point, and I should be able to represent positive and negative numbers from .00000001 to 99999999. < 1281322419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: well 10^x doesn't really make sense unless you use decimal for the mantissa part too < 1281322491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, yes, the censorship also applies to radio. < 1281322516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Music on the radio ends up either having the cursing removed from the voice track in the for-radio mix or a bleep. < 1281322583 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess that could be 1 bit for sign, 4 bits for decimal place, 27 bits for number. how can I translate that into a 2^x? < 1281322602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo attempts assassination of everyone in #squeak <-- What did they do this time? < 1281322605 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with only 4 bits of 2^x, I can't make big numbers < 1281322610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nothing < 1281322617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except assist me < 1281322627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Chatter allInstancesDo: [ :chatter | chatter becomeForward: nil ]. < 1281322627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : best to do "String new" just in case become: or becomeForward: is two-way < 1281322639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randal Schwartz! < 1281322640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's cool < 1281322648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& quite famous < 1281322653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randal_L._Schwartz < 1281322679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popularised "Just another Perl hacker,", invented the Schwartzian transform < 1281322687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sued by Oregon :P < 1281322702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-author of the camel book, Programming Perl < 1281322703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1281322707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and now Squeaker ofc) < 1281322708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really know floating point beyond that it's m*2^x with presumably fixed no. of bits for each of m and x < 1281322730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's it, basically < 1281322743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot even fathom why Comedy Central does the bleeping. < 1281322767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(keep in mind they air South Park. Which used to have the record for instances of fuck per minute.) < 1281322776 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hits the fan? < 1281322801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they used the word "shit" either 0 or 1 times in that ep. I think < 1281322805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe a lot < 1281322807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea < 1281322816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0, 1, or a lot" < 1281322818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The movie. < 1281322836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, that does exclude 2 or 3 < 1281322843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still has record for instances of fuck in an animated film. < 1281322863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it lost the record for total to a documentary on the word.) < 1281322891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 9*2*10^8 < 1281322901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!smalltalk < 1281322904 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1800000000 < 1281322911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!smalltalk Transcript show: 'Hi!'. < 1281322913 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python 1+2 < 1281322916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. "It Hits The Fan" had 162 instances of shit. < 1281322916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1281322918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 2^32 < 1281322919 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4294967296 < 1281322921 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1281322921 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1281322930 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1281322931 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1281322931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A counter runs in the episode. < 1281322934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: well there _should_ be room in there, somehow :D < 1281322963 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah somehow the 2^x wastes it whereas my non-standard representation fits it < 1281322973 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe you didn't notice because it was bleeped? < 1281322985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I never saw the ep < 1281322998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i suspect those 8-digit calculators use decimal internally, anyway < 1281323004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just vaguely knew the name, and that it was related to the word "shit" < 1281323010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And something about a subversion? < 1281323036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, what about this floating point structure: < 1281323042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the floating point is dedicated to /specifying the base/ < 1281323046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. we have (mantissa, base, exponent) < 1281323053 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1281323058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably base is quite small, mantissa is quite big, and exponent is medium < 1281323058 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is going to be cool < 1281323065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: yeah /that/ would be awesome :D < 1281323090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually ... that sounds like a good idea < 1281323094 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281323096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick, someone tell me why it sucks. < 1281323116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well until you try to do arithmetic with two numbers of different bases < 1281323123 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well there is a decimal32 sstandard but it only gives 7 digits of precision < 1281323128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: use hackego for python < 1281323137 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how is it stored? Binary Coded BASEN? < 1281323146 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1281323146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: just binary < 1281323153 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1281323156 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1281323161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: we store (m,b,e) for m * b^e in binary < 1281323170 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1281323179 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget a sign bit < 1281323187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(s,b,e) < 1281323188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes < 1281323194 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1281323198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+-,s,b,e) for +-(m * b^e) < 1281323210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1281323213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in IEEE < 1281323229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have s:24b < 1281323241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 2^32 / (9*2*10^8) < 1281323242 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.386092942222222 < 1281323243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leaves 7b for exponent < 1281323285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he should try VisualWorks < 1281323297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: there is so little extra room that you need to pack tightly, a decimal standard would probably use some way that made it easy to get at the decimal digits, using too much room < 1281323307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for 64-bit, we have s:48.77b; taking that as 48, we have 15b left for the exponent < 1281323338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's say we take away 6 bits from the exponent, leaving there be 9b for the exponent < 1281323343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these 6 bits are the base < 1281323361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say if it uses 4 bits per digit, then you get just 8 and 1 is probably for exponent < 1281323394 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah I figured out for an old 8 digit calculator screen it can represent 1255333573 different values, requiring 30.2254, or 31 bits < 1281323419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281323420 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's with the negative sign eating a digit < 1281323421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives us (2^48 - 1) * 61^511 maximum < 1281323430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait the exponent is signed < 1281323437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, whatever, it's a big number < 1281323445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: any flaws to this representation? apart from difficult arithmetic :P < 1281323484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well there will probably be some numbers with multiple representations < 1281323509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, who cares :D < 1281323549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1281323569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, it will take about an hour for VW to install < 1281323594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I think "more professional than Squeak/Pharo", I was kind of hoping that that wouldn't include the customary IDE slowness < 1281323601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And install slowness < 1281323607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: VisualWorks sucks. < 1281323615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pharo is professional enough. < 1281323620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, besides being proprietary, howso? < 1281323631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just does :P < 1281323644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They came up with the Announcements framework, which I _will_ be using in my AW SDK bindings < 1281323744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we seem to have done 20min in the space of 2min < 1281323747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's a good sign < 1281323962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's a sign of bad time dilation. we might be falling into a black hole! < 1281324200 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EsotericChannel subscribe: Chat do: [:ann | ann chatter becomeForward: nil ]. "MUAHAHAHA! ANYONE SPEAKS, THEY DIE!" < 1281324270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa < 1281324509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now stuck at 8 sec remaining < 1281324511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies < 1281324689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brains < 1281325133 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here play Battle for Wesnoth? My friend and I would like to find a group to play in. < 1281325446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it once or twice, I think < 1281325457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love the music, esp. The Dangerous Symphony < 1281325582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1281325606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Well ... AnMaster. < 1281325617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: So yeah, nobody. < 1281325621 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281325631 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't suppose you're up for a game right now? < 1281325642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :/ < 1281325652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to eat and sleep soon < 1281325997 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: in case you hasn't already found this http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ < 1281326029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had not. < 1281326031 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. < 1281327036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one configure the web browser XChat opens links in? < 1281327177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Hackiki do Smalltalk? < 1281327216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can my toaster do Smalltalk???? < 1281327246 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Toaster new) insert: myToast; toast. < 1281327265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe that should be add: < 1281327286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad Sgeo is finally growing taste in languages. It's like watching a wittle baby gwow up! >_> < 1281327296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next you'll discover Lisp. < 1281327356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp is more implementation-dependent, and there are so many, than Smalltalk! < 1281327426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hackiki can do anything the system can do, however, most Smalltalk environment aren't exactly known for integrating well into their environment. GNU Smalltalk is the exception. < 1281327434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And GNU Smalltalk sucks. < 1281327437 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1281327443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Smalltalk is very implementation-dependent. < 1281327446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less so now, but still pretty dependent. < 1281327452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially considering EVERYTHING IS INSIDE A VM IMAGE. < 1281327459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that you say? File outs? Hahahaha... < 1281327474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monticello is gaining support for more systems, though, I gather. < 1281327482 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the format for those defined by ANSI Smalltalk? < 1281327500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For fileouts? Yes. < 1281327507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barely "portability", though, more like an export format. < 1281327529 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how Monticello would help the portability issue, though :/ < 1281327556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it easier to bring incompatible code into various implementations? < 1281327593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow collaboration between people using different implementations. < 1281327605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's assuming all the system classes are the same, which isn't such a reasonable assumption, but is getting better. < 1281327623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to the point, though, nobody uses anything but VisualWorks and Squeak/Pharo, and nobody doing open-source stuff uses VisualWorks. < 1281327639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not such a huge problem, considering the Smalltalk community has quite a bit of inertia (Pharo is long overdue) so it's unlikely to change. < 1281327657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can trace Squeak's lineage directly back to Smalltalk-80. < 1281327797 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1281327891 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much of a chance do you think I have of getting other AW people to start using Smalltalk when I showcase the advantages? < 1281327950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sound hideously stupid, so 0. < 1281327956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since it's so ... different. < 1281327966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It looks like a kid made it, and how do I save to a file?" < 1281327974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What is this browser thing? Where do I type class {?" < 1281328013 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1281328019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you never met another AW SDK programmer < 1281328082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Smalltalk. < 1281328101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I don't *use* it much, I must admit that it has much awesome. < 1281328125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still needs to get a grip on thisContext < 1281328142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity it almost inherently is its own completely seperate environment. < 1281328155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that's what makes it so fun! < 1281328166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1281328182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this just means that Smalltalk should run on bare hardware. < 1281328183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1281328199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Doesn't static typing usually enable IDEs to be much smarter? < 1281328209 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet Smalltalks are often known for their IDEness < 1281328286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what makes for a great IDE? Being able to edit everything at runtime. < 1281328332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Of course, this just means that Smalltalk should run on bare hardware. < 1281328334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it did originally < 1281328348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Quite. < 1281328798 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1281328969 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1281329584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Should I go back to horrifying the Europeans? < 1281329592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281329600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/files/images/prison-bunk.jpg < 1281329605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We use INCHes here < 1281329606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American prison cell. < 1281329645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1000000/images/_1004547_uk_cell150.jpg < 1281329646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :British < 1281329662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sydwalker.info/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/swedish_prison_cell-300x203.jpg < 1281329663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.jabulela.com/files/media/norwegian-prison4.jpg Norwegian prison cell. < 1281329665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish < 1281329668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1281329683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love Scandinavia. < 1281329694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm moving to sweden then stealing tons of shit < 1281329694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1281329697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281330339 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1281330620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIAERESISESERS < 1281330738 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D ... aresis. < 1281330772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dïäëräësïs < 1281330981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So how come movies get to say "fuck"? < 1281331057 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They aren't controlled by broadcast regulations < 1281331064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is cable tv < 1281331069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet they still bleep curses < 1281331072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says pikhq < 1281331105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most cable stations are controlled by big networks, as I understand it < 1281331175 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281331189 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281331262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hysterical raisins. < 1281331282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1281331285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck the us < 1281331337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1281331344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HRM < 1281331349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want Erlang-style concurrency without weird receive{} blocks < 1281331366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have found no information on the Actor model in Smalltalk < 1281331375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check the Haskell FAQ on lambdabot. < 1281331398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how the Actor model works in general... I think < 1281331464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qu Qu Qu Qu Qu Q Q Q Q Qu Qu Qu Qu < 1281331467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why would that help him? < 1281331477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Because Haskell Can Do That < 1281331478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281331500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qu Qu Qu Qu Qu Qu “Indeed," said the Ambassador, “‘Qu’ does look appealing in this typeface.” < 1281331583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why don't you want receive blocks? < 1281331749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think encouraging someone to learn Smalltalk at the same time I'm teaching him C# might be a bad idea < 1281331807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given select: = Where(), collect: = Select() < 1281331815 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1281332220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not teaching him. (Probably. Unless you're a natural-born teacher, which I'm not sure exists.) < 1281332581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.win.tue.nl/~gwoegi/P-versus-NP/Deolalikar.pdf Serious attempt at P!=NP proof by a respected computer scientist at HP that has withstood some criticism so far, although nobody knows anything about whether it works or not, of course. < 1281332586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need people here to look over it :-) < 1281332626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.activeworlds.com/showthread.php?p=128618#post128618 < 1281332662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : do: [ :ann | myInstance say: (ann name), ': ', (ann message).]. < 1281332663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove first . < 1281332664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is redundant < 1281332672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1281332675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the ()s in the ,s < 1281332675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I've looked at it, though not much. < 1281332686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : do: [ :ann | myInstance say: ann name, ': ', ann message ]. < 1281332696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Any opinions? < 1281332706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, these people have probably never seen Smalltalk before < 1281332718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do it, I'm improving your Smalltalk. < 1281332722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that might be an argument for making it look cleaner < 1281332724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1281332728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I know the precedent rules < 1281332775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about style, now do it >_> < 1281332780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hurts my eyes as-is :P < 1281332809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed < 1281332821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Good God. < 1281332828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ok to have a constructor not use new, right? < 1281332836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ? < 1281332848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's stylistic not to. < 1281332857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never thought an even plausible proof of that would float around. :P < 1281332864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"File named: ...", for instance, would be conventional. < 1281332873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps "File withName: ...", if you're creating a file and not just reading it from disk. < 1281332940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1281333057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I showed you a screenshot of MagsBot once < 1281333127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : do: [ :ann | myInstance say: ann name, ': ', ann message]. < 1281333133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either remove the spaces from the whole [...] block (preferable) < 1281333135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or put a space after message < 1281333136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest < 1281333139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : do: [:ann | myInstance say: ann name, ': ', ann message]. < 1281333142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally no spaces are added. < 1281333146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And YES this is important :| < 1281333196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should add some comments < 1281333196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: :|| < 1281333478 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281333497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I should eat my pizza and go to bed < 1281333523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 5:54. < 1281333525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think likewise. < 1281333578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, uh < 1281333590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sample completely forgets everything required by the AW SDK < 1281333659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix it and fix it according to my suggestions :P < 1281333660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLAVE < 1281333662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, goodnight. < 1281333662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1281333664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281335983 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281336405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281337056 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poll: what animal will Ubuntu 11.04 be? < 1281337140 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281337179 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281337218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyala? Nanger? < 1281337443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames has that list of suggestions; I don't think they've picked one yet? < 1281337509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nagging Nag if more pop-up reminders are added to the desktop" -- I smell some bitterness. < 1281337542 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naughty Nymph < 1281337635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason there seems to be quite many Naughty N's suggested. < 1281337645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Naughty Nightelf -- just think about the artwork we could make" < 1281337668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that'd promote Linux-on-desktop well. < 1281337723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Narwhal seems like a popular animal, too. < 1281337764 0 :tombom!tombom@82.11.102.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281337773 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1281337773 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281338621 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1281339421 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281340407 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281340799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1281340800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1281341290 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281341617 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1281342887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, http://www.win.tue.nl/~gwoegi/P-versus-NP.htm is interesting < 1281342894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a list of proofs of P=NP, and of P!=NP < 1281342909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1281342927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, proofs that it's undecidable < 1281342929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few other things < 1281342945 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gutsy that the guy published it publicly without perr review < 1281342947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*peer < 1281342988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Proof by contradiction. Assume P=NP. Let y be a proof that P=NP. The proof y can be verified in polynomial time by a competent computer scientist, the existence of which we assert. However, since P=NP, the proof y can be generated in polynomial time by such computer scientists. Since this generation has not yet occurred (despite attempts by such computer scientists to produce a proof), we have a contradiction." < 1281343318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1281343363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it just has a really large constant factor? < 1281343473 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281345256 0 :choochter!~choochter@nat/ibm/x-pwbteqouqtafvkem JOIN :#esoteric < 1281348142 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281348652 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281348684 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281348887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281348891 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281349519 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i left it way too late to chip in but i have a friend who thinks he may have an O(n^4) algorithm for turning NP into P < 1281349549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's probably wrong < 1281349630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281349697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "probably wrong" is very close to "provably wrong"; it has a Levenshtein distance of just one. < 1281349704 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-247.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281349735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that gives a Levenshtein-1 proof of P!=NP, doesn't it? < 1281350086 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Equal]: In 2005, Dr. Joachim Mertz proved P=NP. His main contribution is a linear programming formulation of the TSP with O(n^5) variables and O(n^4) constraints. <-- weird... < 1281352601 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1281352927 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281353671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1281353671 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281353671 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /`\ < 1281353682 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1281353683 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i wish i knew where fix point combinators? :) fnord/ fnord/ babylonian cuneiform was just added in unicode 5.0, so few major lisps? ( networking and concurrency, despite my usual polemics i still think it's kind of hard < 1281355021 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281355606 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/ \m/ < 1281355613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/ \m/ < 1281355617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/ \m/ < 1281355622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/ \m/ < 1281355630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/m\ /m\ < 1281355633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1281355655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hi < 1281355918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what are you doing? < 1281355967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to trigger myndzi < 1281355973 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1281355973 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281355973 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |\ < 1281355989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also being frustrated at AW SDK's clinically insane model for callbacks < 1281356072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=SDK_Asynchronous_Operation < 1281356120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that when you call a blocking function synchroneously, it can trigger events and callbacks < 1281356136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I were joking < 1281356168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning to use a Monitor to make the pain go away < 1281356479 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281356531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just remembered that some "events" in the AW SDK are actually callbacks, although not termed such < 1281356977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you sure your name isn't just too short? < 1281356982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \m/ \m/ < 1281356983 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    `\o/ < 1281356983 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      | < 1281356983 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (_|`\ < 1281356983 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       |_) < 1281357012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \m/ \m/ < 1281357012 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :           `\o/ < 1281357012 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :             | < 1281357012 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            /`\ < 1281357012 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          (_| |_) < 1281357184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Narwhal seems like a popular animal, too. < 1281357194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh, everyone from reddit would suggest that < 1281357237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's gutsy that the guy published it publicly without perr review < 1281357278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems likely he didn't mean to, he was just sending it to other researchers to look through but the email got seriously out of hand < 1281357351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone _else_ put it on the web iiuc < 1281357545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saw at least one reddit comment by someone who _had_ read it and was worried about one particular point in the proof, something claimed to be polynomial in size < 1281357567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like someone said yesterday, in the context of embarrassing pictures: "don't worry: what happens on the internet, stays on the internet". < 1281357580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281357678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf xkcd < 1281357790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not cool, not funny, not a good comic? < 1281357814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wtf :D < 1281357940 0 :fruitbag`!~freshmeat@89.240.18.69 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281357954 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be possible to device a quicksort algorithm in Brainfuck? < 1281357963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, probably < 1281357971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd go mad in the process, though. < 1281357972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't interpret "quick" too literally :D < 1281358027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, the complete lack of anything approaching a function call would be a significant barrier. < 1281358043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, given the cost of moving around in brainfuck, might not bubble sort really be optimal for it? < 1281358088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, *everything* has a huge cost in BF. < 1281358107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean asymptotically < 1281358115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, possibly < 1281358124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swapping would have a pretty high cost. < 1281358124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I don't think quicksort would be too difficult in BF < 1281358127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have to move across things, you can just as well swap while you're doing it < 1281358254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mezzacotta seems to be on a good run at the moment... < 1281358302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't notice anything particularly good today, although he always gives the mad scientists at least 50% < 1281358481 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "good" in the sense of "fairly coherent". < 1281358572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooz has written a pretty nice quicksort in Befunge-93; even if it's a bit limited due to the 80x25 playfield. Admittedly that is a far more expressive and less-painful-to-write language. < 1281358639 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can find it nicely syntax-highlighted at http://web.archive.org/web/20061205193036/kotisivu.mtv3.fi/quux/qsort.html courtesy of archive.org. < 1281358780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is Funge98-compatible in the sense that it can sort more data in a system like that. < 1281359002 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Monitor: FUCK YOU < 1281359041 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how would I do an equivalent to a for loop in BF? < 1281359065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, set a cell as a counter, then decrement in []s. < 1281359099 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's not a C-style for loop. < 1281359139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counting down to 0 is usually easier, though. < 1281359181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION curses at http://pastebin.com/LDyEkQpa < 1281359191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Easier than up, with a test at the end, I mean.) < 1281359217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck + lambda calculus. It must be done. < 1281359370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, there are a few high-level to BF compilers, but they're underdeveloped. < 1281359477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to help me? < 1281359518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what language? < 1281359525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk < 1281359536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I cannot help. < 1281359644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you are going, I will not follow. < 1281359699 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-93 is such a queer language < 1281359721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, queer in the Enid Blyton sense? < 1281359845 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1281359854 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :August would be another word < 1281359899 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are stranger languages out there. < 1281359914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including ones that the inventors themselves don't understand. < 1281359937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a Feather reference? < 1281359962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1281360097 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am tempted to shamelessly self-advertise the befunge-bot to yet another new victim. < 1281360111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, tell fruitbag` about yourself < 1281360111 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's your only potential competitor and there's no javascript or anything. they make < 1281360125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1281360125 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1281360146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Good, now I don't have to do that myself. < 1281360158 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281360159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it is true what e says: there's no javascript or anything.) < 1281360773 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fascinating stuff < 1281360800 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The statement '[-]' decrements the value at a point until zero, right? < 1281360874 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281360878 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1281360903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1281360908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1281360912 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281361000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION growls < 1281361015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monitor is reentrant. Apparently I want a non-reentrant Monitor < 1281361246 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, [->+] is the basic copying algorithm. < 1281361278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/copying/moving/ < 1281361292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that Phantom_Hoover is as sleep deprived as I am < 1281361308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no, not really. < 1281361328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a fairly good night's sleep last night. < 1281361343 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How, exactly, is that supposed to go back to the old cell to copy more than 1? < 1281361363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, oops. < 1281361372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, ignore everything I say from now on. < 1281361590 0 :fruitbag!~freshmeat@92.24.13.165 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281361720 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281363456 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, Phantom_Hoover... < 1281363466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why...? < 1281363467 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't ignoring you < 1281363479 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something came up and I was AFK < 1281363493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were supposed to ignore me! < 1281363508 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, so you raised the question of moving a byte from one cell to another < 1281363516 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the general algorithm? < 1281363525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there needed to be a < at the end of the loop. < 1281363544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, [->+<], I think. < 1281363629 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- was decrement that pointer or memory cell? < 1281363642 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, decrement contents or pointer? < 1281363660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck doesn't have pointers. < 1281363666 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1281363681 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I meant was the region being pointed < 1281363707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- decrements the cell under the tape head. < 1281363901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a bit annoying that it kills the old value, though. Actually copying a cell tends to involve something uglier like [>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-] and need a spare cell there. < 1281363964 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that makes sense < 1281363985 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bascially, we are decrementing the contents from one cell and incrementing by the same amount in another < 1281363990 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until the source cell is zero < 1281364147 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppse that I wanted to traverse eight consequtive cells... < 1281364177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>>>>>>, in essence. < 1281364180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another sometimes useful construction is >[-]+<[>-<]>[xxx-]<; that does xxx if current cell (at start) is zero; it's basically [xxx[-]] except the test is negated. < 1281364222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, that [>-<] should be [>-<[-]] there. < 1281364259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also looks like an angry horizontal-smiley. < 1281364314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Away; getting from work to home now.) < 1281364775 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, so let me get this straight.... < 1281364921 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, man -- wouldn't that decrememnt the contents of each consequtive cell by one? < 1281364990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers functional esolangs for this very reason < 1281365074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, are you talking about fizzie's construction? < 1281365197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sets the cell being tested to 0 and the next one to 0 or 1; the xxx can have its own side-effects. < 1281365490 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, so how do we incremement the position while decrementing the contents of a cell statically? < 1281365595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether arbitrary lookup is even possible in BF, at least without the tape being explicitly structured. < 1281366093 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>-<]: "Increment the pointer, decrement the contents of the new position and go back until zero is reached." < 1281366120 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This doesn't do much < 1281366127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, fizzie got that wrong. < 1281366135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be [>-<[-]] < 1281366183 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, so... < 1281366243 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what exactly happens with that one, Phantom_Hoover < 1281366295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it is possible < 1281366301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arbitrary lookup, that is) < 1281366305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1281366310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to move all the data along the tape < 1281366316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to give room for a bunch of temporaries < 1281366324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, destructive as hell, surely? < 1281366330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1281366339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, say the tape starts out as abc12345678 < 1281366347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the letters are temporaries and the numbers are data < 1281366351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you change it to 1abc2345678 < 1281366359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 12abc345678 < 1281366360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1281366365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving the data past the temporaries < 1281366367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, >[-]+<[>-<[-]>is effectively equivalent to logical not. < 1281366401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data[i+1] = !data[i]; data[i] = 0 < 1281366418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh. < 1281366446 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing that without some sort of compiler (or even macro system) seems like a road to insanity. < 1281366469 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of sanity, I think mine is on the verge < 1281366485 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, that's normal here. < 1281366507 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I just want to go somewhere and be alone for a few weeks. < 1281366520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Understandable. < 1281366620 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's even worse if you live in a big city < 1281366998 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would one reverse a string? < 1281367082 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, having an effective swap algorithm would be a good start. < 1281367171 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281367189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transfer-add a to a temp, b to a, then the temp to b < 1281367200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a relatively fast swap < 1281367208 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm < 1281367439 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281367441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you null-terminate the string at each end, that might be enough. < 1281367567 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281367747 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281367778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Mr. Pressey. I've been expecting you. < 1281367783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION strokes his cat < 1281367905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rev a string < 1281367906 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnirts a < 1281367909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show rev < 1281367910 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[.<] < 1281367920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so it just reads it in and prints out in the opposite order. < 1281368221 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281368777 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting stuff < 1281368841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"World disconnects need to be avoided at all costs" < 1281368844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love you, AWSDK < 1281369099 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a variant of BF that allows one to specify numbers? < 1281369122 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, if I wanted to place 10 at a cell, instead of doing ++++++++++ I would do 10+ < 1281369132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1281369138 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10+[-] < 1281369152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy enough to implement. < 1281369180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bunch of BF abbreviations like that < 1281369193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust writes it as (+)*10, for instance < 1281369273 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, I think I have an idea... < 1281369280 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a for loop < 1281369338 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if we form of statement that would go back to the intial cell? < 1281369355 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, it would go forward incrementally and at the same time go backward decrementally < 1281369393 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have an intial value, go forward once, go backwad once (and decrement once) then go forward twice and so on < 1281369403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds about right < 1281369413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it depends on what you're using the loop to do < 1281369444 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initial value, forward once, backward once (decrement by one), forward twice, ... < 1281369456 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: traversing a specified number of cells < 1281369510 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initial value, forward once, backward once (decrement by one), forward twice, backward twice (decrement by one), forward by three, backward by three (decrement by one), ... < 1281369519 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to implement this, though < 1281369597 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any thoughts? < 1281369648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this is for "apply code to n consecutive cells"? < 1281369680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case adding 1 to each cell that needs to be operated on and zeroing the next one is probably simpler. < 1281369923 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-33-178.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281370042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you were the one asking if Star Trek (2009) was worth watching < 1281370047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1281370138 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand why people write 'Brainf*ck' when they are writing academic articles < 1281370143 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely, we are all adults... < 1281370169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, because. We had a long discussion on this last night < 1281370175 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1281370192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not Brainfuck specifically. Censorship in general. < 1281370213 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1281370224 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ridiculous, really... < 1281370242 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if vulgar words are used artistically and tastefully, then I'm for it < 1281370250 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they are used just for the sake of being used, I'm against it < 1281370261 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was the consensus. < 1281370273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's bf interp does the rle-style thing on output, and internally, but it doesn't allow it as input. < 1281370274 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the code would be < 1281370287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def test bf +++++ < 1281370288 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1281370294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show test < 1281370294 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+5 < 1281370305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help def < 1281370305 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1281370319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What langs does it support? < 1281370331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lang=bf/ul, like it says. < 1281370369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No others so far, though I do have a standalone M-code interp I could finish and integrate in theory. < 1281370521 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a load of this -- I just read that some rich Arab payed 9 million for a number plate that is just "1" < 1281370561 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppoes there are indeed good ways to spend a shitload of money on < 1281370838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. Someone in Asia payed an inordinate sum for 5. < 1281371000 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much would you have to pay for "" < 1281371047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, how much does a 5-digit number cost? < 1281371109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't think a zero-length numberplate would be allowed < 1281371139 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Unlambda, is `c the current continuation? < 1281371148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not exactly < 1281371156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ci will get you the current continuation < 1281371170 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so c is call/cc. < 1281371173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what c does is to grab a continuation that causes c to retroactively return with the value it's given, and pass it to c's argument < 1281371176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, c is call/cc < 1281371182 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1281371350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was that photo circling around the internet where someone had written a SQL injection thing on a self-made car numberplate, supposedly to foil those automatical speeding-ticket camera machines. (I doubt it actually work-worked anywhere, but still.) < 1281371431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/03/for_traffic_cameras.jpg that is. < 1281371658 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What operating system do you guys use? < 1281371677 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every OS under the sun/ < 1281371776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So, something that runs on a Sparc? < 1281371803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, someone here probably does < 1281371833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a SPARCstation 5 in the basement, does that count? < 1281371845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's nice, but makes a whole lot of noise.) < 1281371847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes it does. < 1281371964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To answer more seriously, my gut tells me the channel might be somewhat Linux-dominated, but I'm sure there are exceptions. < 1281371994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281372455 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm in my workshop now and we use a multitude of OSes < 1281372465 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was tinkering around with Haiku OS last night < 1281372481 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a hunka junk < 1281372846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha? < 1281372855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have they ruined BeOS? < 1281372891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yes, this channel is Linux + Windows with a few holdouts. < 1281372894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey uses FreeBSD/ < 1281372896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FreeBSD. < 1281372901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact Windows is very rare too. < 1281372920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd say almost all Linux, maybe two to three windows, and ... cpressey. < 1281372978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a handful of OS X usage. < 1281372990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distros, not so sure; I'd expect a plurality, but not necessarily a majority, of Ubuntu, one or two Debian (fizzie and Gregor (well, sidux, but it's basically the same thing)), a few on Arch (Deewiant, AnMaster (sometimes), me), < 1281372991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, that'd be the holdouts. < 1281372992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281373002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two on Gentoo (pikhq and AnMaster). < 1281373008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh yeah; jix is OS X. < 1281373030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The common theme is, of course, UNIX. < 1281373039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex uses OS X and Linux I think < 1281373052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal and Slereah use Windows unless Slereah finally got Linux working properly < 1281373058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo uses Windows because of his shitty games < 1281373063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1281373070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*etc. < 1281373083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The okkklo pol is Windowsy too, wasn't he? < 1281373095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But also Ubuntu on one of his laptops. < 1281373098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Windows now, I think. < 1281373103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "is ... wasn't" < 1281373109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use Windows < 1281373142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said you. < 1281373147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have that OS X laptop too, but I guess this was more "use for the most of the time" type of question. < 1281373154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say you, coppro? < 1281373155 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will probably download a legit copy through the MSDNAA next year, but not because I like Windows < 1281373155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1281373164 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I like to feel important < 1281373166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So I'd say almost all Linux, maybe two to three windows, and ... cpressey. < 1281373166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Windows < 1281373167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1281373167 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What machines are you guys using right now? < 1281373168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: :D < 1281373174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 uses Windows, shockingly. < 1281373183 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seriously considering having announcement handlers run in separate processes and all be run in 1 monitor < 1281373184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Until he switches to ZZO38NUX < 1281373185 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a Lenovo Thinkpad T60 < 1281373191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Handbuilt $300 desktop. < 1281373193 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running Windows 7 < 1281373202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics card is shit, everything else is rather reasonable. < 1281373203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Toshiba T150 running Arch Linux. < 1281373217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a crappy Acer. I may get a better computer soon, but then my decisionphobia kicks in. < 1281373217 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1281373222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I think it's a T150. < 1281373223 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acer is quite nice, Phantom_Hoover < 1281373226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, please tell me that what I said is close enough to "single-threaded" as to seem pointless < 1281373234 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And non-dangerous < 1281373237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13.3" screen, 1.33 GHz ultra-low voltage processor, 4 GiB of RAM. < 1281373243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, well, yes. It's fine in all non-graphicsy respects. < 1281373245 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember having an Acer before it was well-known in 1997 < 1281373248 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1281373248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can almost decode 1080p with full AV synchronisation, so I'm happy with its performance. < 1281373254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Microsoft optical mouse plugged in :P < 1281373270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a T500 < 1281373270 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I no longer use Windows. < 1281373270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This box too doesn't really have a model name, and listing all the specs sounds a bit too boresome. < 1281373272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 TP < 1281373279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Okay. What do you use? OS X? Linux? < 1281373285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T500 sounds like a terminator model. < 1281373295 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually OS X, sometimes Linux. < 1281373301 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On eBay, there's a bunch of low-grade ARM Windows CE junk < 1281373303 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing has awful graphics but a beast of a processor (for compiling) < 1281373305 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At around 50 < 1281373317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Yes, but Why Would You Want To. < 1281373330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do own a ridiculously shitty "netbook"; 7" screen, ARM, and running a bastardised Debian. < 1281373332 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for itnkering < 1281373339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got proper Debian on it but broke it with one tiny error. Sigh. < 1281373343 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Chinese stuff? < 1281373348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Nah, "Ubisurfer" < 1281373366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for DESTRUCTION < 1281373368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the cheapest netbook ever, apparently. Comes with FREE FREE GPRS internet which /proxies to a Windows server running IE and sends back images of the page/ < 1281373370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am not joking.) < 1281373373 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sharp have released a nice device they call the Netwalker, I think < 1281373377 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the right name? < 1281373377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cost like £150 so, ha. < 1281373385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Apparently. < 1281373392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pretty much hate netbooks. < 1281373392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free GPRs? I should have thought that they were standard. < 1281373395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Debian in my phone, too. (Okay, so it's Maemo, but close enough.) < 1281373401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: GPRS internet :| < 1281373403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only for proxying to IE < 1281373411 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM-based stuff is secure < 1281373417 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, madness. < 1281373419 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, not entirely... < 1281373436 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can never be entirely immune if you are using Mozilla on every architecture < 1281373438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: I also own a 2006 iMac, a relatively new low-spec computer in an old, old case that I don't use... < 1281373449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does an iPhone count as a computer? < 1281373452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Buh? < 1281373455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does ARM have to do with security? < 1281373459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Mozilla have to do with security? < 1281373474 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ARM isn't mainstream < 1281373482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, no shit, neither is Linux. < 1281373487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nonexecutable memory is an arch-level security feature < 1281373491 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mozilla is a mainstream browser that is a popular target < 1281373493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the mainstream argument is bunk; it's UNIX's security model that saves it. < 1281373496 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Windows here (at work) and Linux (Ubuntu) at home. I used to run primarily FreeBSD, but that was a few years ago now. < 1281373497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I doubt a RISC would have it. < 1281373504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Once targeted you could only run native code, though, if you wanted to do anything interesting. < 1281373508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ARM is safe anyway. < 1281373517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's more the OS. < 1281373527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is simply fundamentally flawed wrt its security model... < 1281373536 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I once had an idea of a secure setup: two machines -- one for internet-based stuff and another for work and storing data. < 1281373545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secure setup: Properly sandboxed operating system... < 1281373560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if you use Linux and don't run programs with "sudo" unless you know what they do... you're fine# < 1281373562 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One machine would never be connected at all < 1281373564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/#$// < 1281373573 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: make that mostly fine < 1281373586 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu makes my home laptop an unenjoyable piece of junk, but at least it runs -- I don't trust any *BSD to install on such a fragile profile of hardware as a laptop, and they all have such crud package managers. < 1281373594 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for backing up, two seperate hard drives < 1281373594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your security features on that OS we were discussing were... mad. < 1281373614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I misremember, mooz had a non-internetted primary-use computer at some point; used a serial link to transfer selected data files when necessary, and never anything executable. < 1281373614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madder than everything else. < 1281373618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Mad in a good way, I hope :D < 1281373623 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still lose your homedir, and kernel exploits could give a root. Kernel exploits are far rare than exploits < 1281373629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, EVERYTHING RAN IN RING 0. < 1281373632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway it's basically a blend of E's and Newspeak's security systems. < 1281373640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, yeah. < 1281373646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just to avoid context-switching. < 1281373650 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, but even that serial link could put the machine in danger in some way < 1281373659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: No ... it couldn't < 1281373666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSes don't just randomly run code that comes in on ports. < 1281373672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a bit paranoid. < 1281373678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There could be an exploit in the serial port driver, you see! < 1281373696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, remember Lumenos? He was more paranoid. < 1281373701 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The safest way to transfer data between machines is by a USB flash stick < 1281373703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. That's likely, you know, because serial ports are so hard to get right. < 1281373705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much potential for error. < 1281373715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: do you actually put this system into practice? Surely you realise how hopelessly impractical and overly paranoid it is. < 1281373717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He always links to the HTTPS version of Wikipedia. < 1281373728 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, alise... I abandoned the idea < 1281373730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Besides, haha... < 1281373734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: There could be an exploit in the USB driver. < 1281373736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, THERE COULD BE A BUG IN THE USB DRIVERS! < 1281373736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also no safer than a serial link. < 1281373738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just as much as the serial port driver. < 1281373743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh snap, channel-wide epiphany < 1281373755 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD... I BELIEVE IN GOD NOW! < 1281373766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if the other computer is Windows; wasn't there that relatively recent USB-stick-driven seek-some-industrial-control-system virus? < 1281373771 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the setup is indeed overly paranoid < 1281373774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since those tend to be not connected to the interwebs.) < 1281373774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be using transfer methods rooted entirely in userspace! < 1281373778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I daresay that USB drivers are much more likely to be broken than serial port drivers. < 1281373789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monolithic kernels are innately insecure! < 1281373791 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A better idea would be to make the internet machine ARM-based < 1281373795 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that isn't mainstream < 1281373798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you just like ARM too much. < 1281373802 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1281373803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sticks crayons in his nose < 1281373807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You knows, OSes don't just randomly run machine code in ring 0. < 1281373809 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose it could be MIPS-based too < 1281373810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this conversation actually taking place? < 1281373813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1281373813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, except yours < 1281373819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, it runs Lisp. < 1281373824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Apparently. < 1281373830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * Phantom_Hoover sticks crayons in his nose < 1281373835 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :208|* Phantom_Hoover sticks crayons in his nose < 1281373846 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp which is compiled, hence making binary distribution the least secure thing ever. < 1281373857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Er, no. < 1281373863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only runs source Lisp, which it compiles itself. < 1281373875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no method to execute machine code outside of the top security level. < 1281373882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Below, it's just Lisp. < 1281373883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with a single buffer overflow... < 1281373888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what? < 1281373895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In something. < 1281373896 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the least secure programming language? < 1281373901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's remarkably vague. < 1281373905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, define "secure". < 1281373906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not sure you've thought this exploit through. < 1281373937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it is for an OS which hasn't been thought through. < 1281373943 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: for instance, since there is no array bounds checking in C, buffer overflow security holes are common < 1281373952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, assembly, then. < 1281373964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or InsecureLang, which I shall invent now. < 1281373967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, I'm 99.9999% certain my security model works. :P < 1281374020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of nines; is this one of the 89 % of statistics that are made up on the spot? < 1281374028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All programs will allow the execution of arbitrary code if the word "foo" is typed in at any point of their execution. < 1281374039 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The traditional argument against (e.g.) Lisp and for context switching is that Lisp (or any other VM) can't get the performance of compiled code. But the alternative is all that time taken context switching -- I haven't regularly believed the argument. < 1281374040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The exact figure is 74%. < 1281374056 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, compiled Lisp. < 1281374065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: My architecture was a Lisp compiler. Everything ran in ring 0, but because the Lisp had a very strong security model, it was safe. < 1281374091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Since you could only pass Lisp to be executed, and there was a very strong total sandboxing system in place, it's even safer than typical UNIX-based OSes. < 1281374107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Everything runs in ring 0 because one single call could end up talking to the hardware via e.g. the keyboard driver. < 1281374117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So instead of switching into kernel and back all the time, we just run everything in ring 0. < 1281374143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the "safe assuming no implementation errors" definition of "safe"? < 1281374176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it appears so. < 1281374282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281374284 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281374294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Lumenos was currently" --Lumenos < 1281374306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Lumenos. < 1281374314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an article on Lumeniki now. < 1281374324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Lumenikilu Fun fact: Capitalising the first letter of a word makes it plural. < 1281374353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do link. < 1281374363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/PhatTom_Hoover < 1281374370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love him now just for the picture. < 1281374551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly Ubuntu 11.04 will be "Niggardly Nigger" < 1281374562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NOTE: Only one word in that sentence is hideously offensive.) < 1281374585 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, have you worked out a sensible way of mapping disc to memory yet? < 1281374592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. I propose we use flux capacitors. < 1281374624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we're going for standard x86-64 hardware, aren't we? < 1281374665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Augmented with flux capacitors. < 1281374697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not make it a TwoDucks OS, then? < 1281374721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of mogulic misappropriation. < 1281374735 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E6393.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281374948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Haskell allow you to define monads that aren't functors? < 1281374962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; this is a flaw. < 1281374972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1281374973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe Monad originated before Functor, so there is not the dependency. < 1281374997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC there is a Monad instance in the standard library which is not a functor (in the mathematical sense); this is an egregrious abuse, but there you go. < 1281375019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what sense isn't it mathematical? < 1281375029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/mathematical/functorial/ < 1281375044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it does not obey the functor laws. < 1281375090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie. < 1281375091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap id = id < 1281375094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap (f.g) = fmap f . fmap g < 1281375105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i.e. < 1281375167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh jeez, Emacs depends on gconf. < 1281375175 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1281375177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1281375181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GTK+ version, at least. < 1281375189 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that makes some sense. < 1281375198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kind of sense that makes me want to slap people. < 1281375214 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1281375225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because dammit I don't want gconf. < 1281375257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1281375275 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: lang may yer lum reek.. < 1281375305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I don't want GNOME components on my system; and because gconf not only requires a daemon to run at all times, but is very hard to change keys in -- you can't just edit the files, really. < 1281375382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... of course, since I don't have gconfd running, Evince won't actuall yremember my settings but will still have the daemon installed. < 1281375547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actually remember < 1281375674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a single word that means "of note". :| < 1281375724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notable < 1281375743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, another one. < 1281375758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ununnotable < 1281375768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1281375831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's a Monad instance that's not a functor? Said Monad instance is clearly not a monad. < 1281375835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hence this is a bug. < 1281375848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course; but a well-established one, just like Monad not being declared as Functor => Monad. < 1281375856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Which instance? < 1281375860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People loathe to change the standard library, quite understandably. < 1281375866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not sure. < 1281375868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loathe the standard library. < 1281375897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have you read the Epitome? < 1281375915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No. < 1281375924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.e-pig.org/darcs/Pig09/src/Epitome.pdf < 1281375946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The finest Epigram implementation there is! The only Epigram implemention there is! < 1281375961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written in beautiful Strathclyde Haskell Extension, typeset by beautiful LaTeX! < 1281375969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be compiled with the beautiful glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation system! < 1281375997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, said LaTeX is not microtype'd. < 1281376000 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281376004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can /tell/? < 1281376007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523. < 1281376011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1281376015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How??? < 1281376024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T vs the i on the first page? < 1281376025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Lack of margin kerning. < 1281376027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1281376030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, page 7. < 1281376031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is that it? < 1281376039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this debate about? < 1281376052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pikhq has been given a PDF typeset with LaTeX < 1281376055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the other microtypography stuff is not noticable outside of comparisons. < 1281376062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he has been able to /recognise/ that it has not been \usepackage{microtype}d < 1281376070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive < 1281376070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because of a lack of a specific microtypographical correction < 1281376078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am busy being astonished that he has managed to do this. < 1281376090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which two lines gave it away? < 1281376093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the character shrinking and stretching is only noticable in that it generates less ugly hyphenation < 1281376105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what sect of Buddhism do I have to study to reach this kind of enlightenment? < 1281376118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Look at any line with ending terminal punctuation. This is what makes it *most* obvious. < 1281376123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Ending punctuation. < 1281376124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The character shrinking and stretching sucks a bit though, because you have to disable ligatures for it to work properly, which disables quotes etc. < 1281376133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you do it specifically avoiding disabling quotes < 1281376141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ligatures get disabled even at small spacings < 1281376145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where they would be beneficial < 1281376164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But there aren't any to start with. < 1281376170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, whatever, it's just an Epigram implementation :P < 1281376172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The letter spacing changes are also only noticable in that they generate less ugly hyphenation... < 1281376181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said that. < 1281376187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, letter spacing. < 1281376188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1281376195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To prove that statement, we first show that any Tm {In, VV} p which is not a N t is not a < 1281376196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutral term. This is obvious as we are left with lambda and canonicals, which cannot be stuck. < 1281376198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I see it there. < 1281376199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page 9. < 1281376205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tons of it. < 1281376211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, you mean commas? < 1281376215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay; I see it there. < 1281376224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, commas also get kerned on the edge. < 1281376249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, though this requires more attention to detail, you would be able to see other characters getting kerned. < 1281376256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, by the way. This has bugged me about the Epitome for ages. < 1281376267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the Bwd constructor do? < 1281376273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :i Bwd < 1281376274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, none of us have actually /read/ the thing. < 1281376275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, that "k" on the second line of the second paragraph of page 9 would be partially in the margin. < 1281376287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: See page 251. < 1281376296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As would the "T" on the very start of the first paragraph on page 9. < 1281376302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_o_ < 1281376302 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1281376302 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /'\ < 1281376306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Bwd x = B0 | Bwd x :< x < 1281376306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1281376311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Bwd x = B0 | (<:) (Bwd x) x < 1281376315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., a reverse list. < 1281376318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also < 1281376324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Fwd x = F0 | (:>) x (Fwd x) < 1281376328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is obviously the regular list structure. < 1281376364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This always succeed." --Conor < 1281376580 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281376677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one enable XeTeX's microtypographical support? < 1281376712 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Epigram actually used to research? < 1281376733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dependent types. < 1281376745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Doesn't exist yet. < 1281376746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not actually actively being using to /research/ i.e. write papers and shit. < 1281376746 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh damn, you found the Epitome too? I was trying to read it. It's hilarious. < 1281376751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more an experimental vehicle. < 1281376758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hilarious because of Conor's humour, or what? :P < 1281376764 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell what's a technical term from type theory and what's kidding. < 1281376770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epitome? < 1281376778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Either you said that before or someone else thought the same. < 1281376787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.e-pig.org/darcs/Pig09/src/Epitome.pdf < 1281376789 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had said it before :) < 1281376862 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"References are the key way we represent free variables, declared, defined, and deluded." < 1281376876 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deluded is *probably* kidding. But who knows? < 1281376902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, wait, XeTeX does no microtypographical adjustments? < 1281376907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But that's /half the point/ of XeTeX! < 1281376970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually, the point of XeTeX is to support OpenType features. < 1281376976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, uh, anyone know of a panelly thing for X11 that doesn't suck? A clock, systray icons, and a windows list, that's all I'm lookin' for. < 1281376998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't yet support the microtype portions of OpenType. < 1281377024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:25:19 i left it way too late to chip in but i have a friend who thinks he may have an O(n^4) algorithm for turning NP into P < 1281377026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's full of shit. < 1281377027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(likewise, it doesn't yet support the vertical text layout portions of OpenType) < 1281377035 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281377036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well that's fucking useless. < 1281377052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you get Linux Libertine in ... a format that pdfTeX supports? < 1281377099 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The fact that "I don't want GNOME components on my system" isn't regarded as a valid desire is one of the defining problems of our generation (whatever that means)... it goes along with "This is just an accretion of hacks and features that were slapped on one-by-one" not being a valid criticism of a code base. < 1281377099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/libertine.html < 1281377129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's part of TeX Live. < 1281377132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage{libertine} < 1281377139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: <3 < 1281377149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does it support all the nice ligatures and stuff? I hope so. < 1281377164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should. < 1281377183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sir, that doesn't automatically set the text font. Whaddo I do < 1281377207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh? < 1281377255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: \usepackage{libertine} still uses Computer Modern fonts by default. < 1281377260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems I have to do more to set it as the default font. < 1281377262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hey. "XeTeX now supports margin kerning along the same lines as pdfTeX" < 1281377273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, but this is fine too. I'm more comfortable with pdfTeX. :P < 1281377300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that command you use in the quotation environment, name \*flushright for some *, to set the author? < 1281377302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you do < 1281377313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\somethingflushright Awesome Person < 1281377348 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281377350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. < 1281377519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sourceforge.net/projects/webadmin/forums/forum/600155/topic/3801603 < 1281377535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281377552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:43:10 oerjan: Not cool, not funny, not a good comic? < 1281377557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie's secret identity is revealed < 1281377579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: gahahaha < 1281377593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, it's not that funny < 1281377791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2010/august/134484/Al-Jazeera-on-college-TV-station-causes-concern < 1281377809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.win.tue.nl/~gwoegi/P-versus-NP/argall.txt < 1281377810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"instance Naperian Bwd where -- cheeky!" < 1281377828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a controversial network" < 1281377833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Al Jazeera is a controversial network? < 1281377844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waaaaah ... I want to cry ... < 1281377852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, some of the comments are worse < 1281377880 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I assume you mean that fizzie is Randall Munroe? < 1281377885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1281377891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That fizzie is sjeforgotthenumbers. < 1281377907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a government funded college and thus should only promote the United States of America. Not a fascist idiology of anti-American hate from those who are sworn to kill all of us as they are of wiping Israel off the map. The sooner you liberal knuckle-heads understand that salient point the clearer your thought processes might become." < 1281377910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think -- hope -- this is a joke. < 1281377912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe, just possibly, I've just been reading the forums approximately thrice? < 1281377923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inconceivable. < 1281377930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How dare you lie> < 1281377931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lie? < 1281377948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I forgot to \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}. *headdesk* < 1281377955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lie where I lay. < 1281377968 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if that's a comment, it's not a joke. < 1281377972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Insert Shakespearean pun. < 1281377975 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world is full of idiots. < 1281377977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: You know, some people /do/ use humour. < 1281377991 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that "P=NP is undecidable" proof is a joke, too, but it's not. < 1281378002 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, proof? < 1281378013 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: alise's link < 1281378023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. don't quite get it < 1281378167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How does one set the default mathematics font in LaTeX? < 1281378226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow; evince segfaults on this PDF. < 1281378468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, nice, Epigram is MITL'd. < 1281378489 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, Epitome, or whatever their implementation is called, I mean. < 1281378512 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MITL? < 1281378515 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hate it when language and implementation are conflated like that. < 1281378528 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do try to keep up, Phantom_Hoover_. < 1281378571 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what MITL means! < 1281378583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Their implementation has no name; you just check out it, and all the associated components, from the "Epigram" repository. The way you interact with the implementation is called the Cochon interactive theorem prover. < 1281378602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has the "data T := (c:T); ..." stuff and the "make x : T" stuff, etc. < 1281378621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the expressions and the implementations of these syntaxes et al. is part of the implementation. < 1281378629 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They do say "the source code of Epigram is available..." Which always bugs me. < 1281378633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Epitome is the name of the properly-typeset implementation. < 1281378644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes, but that's {"An Epigram Implementation", Cochon, ...} < 1281378678 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1281378688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1281378688 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what they "probably mean" but I still regard it as a bad habit. < 1281378736 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too many people can't make the distinction -- no need to encourage it through more "abuse of notation" like that. Anyway, just my pet peeve. < 1281378790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gibbers at Reddit being down < 1281378878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it... isn't. < 1281378917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not anymore < 1281378966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, there is more to life than Reddit. < 1281378995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.reddit.com works, reddit.com doesn't < 1281379175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the LaTeX command to set not initial line indentation of a paragraph, but indentation of all following lines? < 1281379266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Spivak < 1281379282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The best way is to draw pictures; but this requires a chapter all by itself." < 1281379343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that from? < 1281379383 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his Calculus textbook < 1281379389 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he's talking about functions) < 1281379540 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tokenEq t = (|id ~ () (% tokenFilter (== t) %)|) < 1281379557 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen that syntax in Haskell before... is this SHE stuff? < 1281379603 0 :relet1!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281379720 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281379935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: \usepackage[libertine} doesn’t do the “Qu” ligature. < 1281379958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281379959 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281379962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sucks. < 1281380053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: So do you really use FreeBSD as a day-to-day OS? < 1281380083 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I used to. Meaning, no. But I have, in the past. < 1281380110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :( < 1281380125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "Qu" ligature? < 1281380155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upside: the kernel is actually well written. Downside: all BSD package managers suck. Java support was almost nonexistent. The userland is still largely GNU anyway. Etc, etc. < 1281380212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What do you use now? < 1281380216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In Libertine, yes. < 1281380226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The Q’s tail flows underneath the u. < 1281380229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I see it? < 1281380237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have the Linux Libertine font installed? < 1281380241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281380247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switch to it on IRC. XChat, yes? < 1281380253 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ubuntu. Sadly. Can I call it Ubuntoad? That, and Cygwin-under-Windows-7. < 1281380280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Switched to it? < 1281380291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1281380295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Query. < 1281380297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Quite how we are to perform this feat, I am not certain,” admitted the dean. < 1281380299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coool. < 1281380303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q Q Q Qu < 1281380305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q u < 1281380316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This font is indeed cool. < 1281380335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q​u <-- with zero width space inbetween < 1281380338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q​u Qu < 1281380343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former is how it apperas in LaTeX. < 1281380346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is a pretty nice typeface. < 1281380374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit too... subtle for freetype to render properly, but all other fonts suck more, so I’m using it on IRC. < 1281380374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a typography illiterate, I can confirm thi. < 1281380389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially like the capital “M”. The little slant! It’s so cute. < 1281380397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also: “Th” is a ligature. < 1281380403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1281380410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type “T”, then “h”. Note the transformation. < 1281380421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T​h Th <-- Zero-width spaces to the rescue. < 1281380425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have days of fun with this! < 1281380437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f​i fi <-- The fi ligature. < 1281380446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f​l fl <-- The fl ligature. < 1281380454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f​f ff <-- The ff ligature. < 1281380459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Those are a bit more subtle.) < 1281380464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though the unligatured fi is hideous.) < 1281380479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also nice is Biolinium, Libertine’s sans-serif sister. < 1281380486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this. < 1281380493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1281380503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <-- Thank Libertine for this. < 1281380508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281380514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281380530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is pretty bizarre; does it show up as wavy lines for anyone else? < 1281380564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1281380574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's not much help. < 1281380599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stays as wavy lines in my terminal. < 1281380640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's a black circle for me < 1281380665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○ ○ < 1281380665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  < 1281380665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281380672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○ ○ < 1281380672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  < 1281380673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281380676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○ ○ < 1281380677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  < 1281380678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281380693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○ ○ < 1281380693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  < 1281380693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281380697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○ ○ < 1281380697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  < 1281380698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281380701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○ ○ < 1281380702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  < 1281380703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281380706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yayy < 1281380710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○ ○ < 1281380711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  < 1281380712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1281380714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is perfect! < 1281380716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The face is complete. < 1281380848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no it isn't. < 1281380854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. Why isn't it? < 1281380856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nose is off-centre. < 1281380865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks centred to me. < 1281380880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“I wish I had some sort of XChat plugin that properifies my quote marks.” < 1281380886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And makes -- into a real em-dash. < 1281380892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because you're a FASCIST. < 1281380897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, compose key? < 1281380901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is not automatic. < 1281380902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's there for a reason. < 1281380911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, I can just make substitutions for ``, '' and --. < 1281380912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome! < 1281380981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``Testing.'' < 1281380982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaat. < 1281380983 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1281380986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it needs to be a word. < 1281380988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supremely lame. < 1281381101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, you’re meant to use an en-dash rather than a hyphen when it’s an adjective attached to multiple words, e.g. “Civil War–era”. < 1281381105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least according to this random website. < 1281381169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia doesn't seem to back this up. < 1281381207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's something that varies from style guide to style guide. < 1281381254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, Unicode can't mark up superscript-th, for all its useless superscripts and subscripts. < 1281381322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Clearly, the preferred usage should be {Civil War}-era. < 1281381327 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1281381355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Clearly. :P < 1281381716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a programming language! Stat! < 1281381722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1281381730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhilst: < 1281381731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conservapedia.com/Counterexamples_to_Relativity < 1281381736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No! Another one! Stat! < 1281381747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The theory of relativity is a mathematical system that allows no exceptions. It is heavily promoted by liberals who like its encouragement of relativism and its tendency to mislead people in how they view the world.[1] Here is a list of 24 counterexamples: any one of them shows that the theory is incorrect. < 1281381778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The action-at-a-distance of quantum entanglement.[5] < 1281381779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The action-at-a-distance by Jesus, described in John 4:46-54.]] < 1281381796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Juxtaposing quantum entanglement with Jesus for the same purpose: Hilarity defined. < 1281381801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: D < 1281381814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You're just going through the alphabet! < 1281381855 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B is a programming language too! < 1281381862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is E! < 1281381864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And A+! < 1281381870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And M! If you use that name instead of MUMPS. < 1281382191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that article is one of the funnier ones. < 1281382218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have "Black holes" in the list of liberal pseudoscience < 1281382398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: fax uses conservapedia < 1281382404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain the insanity & the wikipedia hatred < 1281382463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frank you make an interesting point, and I have an open mind about it. But I'm not entirely convinced. When the woman cured herself of bleeding and Jesus felt power leaving him, that sounds more like heat than light. And for heat to travel virtually instantaneously (or at the speed of light) WOULD violate the theory of relativity.--Andy Schlafly 20:48, 5 January 2010 (EST) < 1281382501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You know that WM I described to you? < 1281382590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On this site we encourage *thinking* in a logical way.--Andy Schlafly" < 1281382702 0 :cal153!~cal@208.181.171.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281382926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1281382940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never knew the government could be this helpful < 1281383233 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281383366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ? < 1281383426 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281383683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there? < 1281383736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:15:21 Get a load of this -- I just read that some rich Arab payed .9 million for a number plate that is just "1" < 1281383743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:20:38 Meh. Someone in Asia payed an inordinate sum for 5. < 1281383758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think those were the same country, it was in a newspaper here < 1281383786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qatar or Kuwait or something like that < 1281383885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm abu dhabi < 1281383897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qatar is a bad name for a country because it does not utilise the Qu ligature. < 1281383904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(part of UAE) < 1281383909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, apart from the previously mentioned panos recently I took some obviously non-pano photos with my phone from a moving car on the way home (I don't have the google setup sadly!). http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/trip_home/ if you are interested. If you can recommend some software to generate a minimalistic static gallery page I would be happy. Nothing that wouldn't wor < 1281383909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k in links2 -g that is. < 1281383965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used a Java thing for a static album dealie, but I'm not sure I'd go and recommend it. < 1281384009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281384039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally the top google hit when i tried to find it was a blog saying it was saudi arabia, but i am 100% sure that is wrong (and a later google hit said abu dhabi) < 1281384041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for x in *; do echo "

" >>index.html; done < 1281384049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also seems to have become confusing, with some sort of free hosting plan and iPhone apps and whatnot. < 1281384067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The do-it-yourself solution is always a possibility, too. < 1281384116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that involves a lot of work I'm not willing to spend < 1281384122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the "thumbnails with bash-oneliner of convert, ls | sed to create the album page" approach in my case. < 1281384140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so for now wget -r -np http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/trip_home/ and eog on the resulting directory < 1281384174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just clickety-click in the browser. < 1281384183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that involves more clicking ;P < 1281384205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two clicks for next image < 1281384223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/trip_home/Bild032.jpg might need some explanation... < 1281384224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's O(n), anyway. (Or, well, I guess eog can do some sort of automatic-advance slideshow, maybe.) < 1281384243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the English word for hemvärnet < 1281384247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't mewtwo some sort of pokeymon? < 1281384249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that building used to be that < 1281384259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, I didn't decide naming scheme of servers < 1281384272 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb). < 1281384281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, XD < 1281384297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb). < 1281384301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA* < 1281384304 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :209| Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb). < 1281384304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for x in *; do echo "

" >>index.html; done < 1281384309 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no! < 1281384314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as the domain name implies it is an irc network (you wouldn't like it I think). I'm an oper there. Not the one deciding on naming scheme though. < 1281384323 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281384324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb). < 1281384324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1281384329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, needs some

and such < 1281384331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good idea < 1281384332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope < 1281384335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:

is perfectly valid < 1281384338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without unterminated

) < 1281384340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't do HTML5, sorry < 1281384345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in HTML4.1 Strict < 1281384351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't do that either < 1281384354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He only speaks XML, you see. < 1281384355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer xhtml < 1281384361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, but that's just because he's fucking stupid. < 1281384369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually S-Expressions too, but no browser does that < 1281384379 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may be crazy, but I'm with them on the "black holes are probably a complete fiction" platform. < 1281384402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: x_x < 1281384404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so&interrobang; < 1281384405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, that doesn't explain the evidence for them in the form of gravitational lenses and so on < 1281384411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That is... vanishingly unlikely. < 1281384438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow... I think I just disproved the Riemann hypothesis. < 1281384440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1082326.txt?key=kt6ybknat9le7iodnlxzxw < 1281384442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You heard it here first. < 1281384453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P!=NP, !Riemann... a lot of interesting theorems being proved recently! < 1281384481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I want to see this published in a peer-reviewed paper first :P < 1281384493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Published in a paper? < 1281384505 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Gravitational lensing" is a complete *guess* as to "why the sky appears like that there". < 1281384507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, if you actually *proved* it... < 1281384517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You fail at terminology. < 1281384523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: black holes not actually existing as singularities isn't that unlikely < 1281384524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, disproved it < 1281384526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I didn't; I disproved it. < 1281384531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, still < 1281384534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You don't publish things in papers. < 1281384537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I used proved in the old sense < 1281384537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You publish papers in journals. < 1281384546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err right < 1281384548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1281384550 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A peer-reviewed newspaper! < 1281384561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: A peer-reviewed toilet paper. < 1281384576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Men of Science only use that stuff. < 1281384579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, but black holes altogether? < 1281384583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would be able to publish in any journal of your choice if your disproof passes peer review < 1281384590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but I was announcing it here first. < 1281384596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that people can take a look at it and maybe point out flaws < 1281384604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm submitting it to Annals of Mathematics tomorrow if all goes well. < 1281384610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure oerjan can back me up. < 1281384610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, my math is not nearly up to scratch in that area < 1281384613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://pastie.org/1082326.txt?key=kt6ybknat9le7iodnlxzxw < 1281384632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and yes oerjan could probably help < 1281384632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it might also be that horizon never actually forms (it's apparently consistent to assume that happens infinitely far in the future from our viewpoint, after all) < 1281384642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the horizon < 1281384668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, speaking of photography, I took a minute of handsfree video from the Assembly main hall, in the interests of trying out the panotools-driven time-lapse stabilization trick to make it un-shakey. It's unfortunately a pretty boring sight; just a bunch of flashing lights. < 1281384682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: any comments on my disproof? < 1281384705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm is this a constructive proof? As in you can show a specific value it is wrong for, or provide a way to construct such a value? < 1281384720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Erm, the Riemann hypothesis states that such a value exists. < 1281384729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, wait. < 1281384731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what you mean. < 1281384733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My disproof specifies that. < 1281384742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is not a constructive proof, but then a great many mathematical proofs aren't < 1281384750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1281384759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constructing a value is probably possible but I have no idea what kind of techniques you'd use < 1281384764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is a simple proof by contradiction. < 1281384764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doesn't it state that *all* _non-trivial_ 0 lies on a specific line < 1281384771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I handle this. < 1281384782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A trivial 0 = negative even number. < 1281384787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1281384808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1281384815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the specific details < 1281384827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway what about that P!=NP proof? < 1281384858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean, what about it? < 1281384871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Is it correct, of course. < 1281384876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I assume you've already grokked all about it! < 1281384890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, who made it and who checked it < 1281384894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only 100 pages of pure math. < 1281384898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was authored by a competent computer scientist working at a high position in a large coroporation, it was sent to a bunch of high-profile computer scientists to review; it got published not by the author, but by someone else (so he didn't just post a non-peer-reviewed paper) < 1281384911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it hasn't been conclusively checked yet. < 1281384914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's possibly true -- he's not a crank -- but probably flawed but useful. < 1281384921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to say however I will be less surprised if it is proven that P!=NP than if P=NP is proven. < 1281384923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was only published by "accident". < 1281384934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P=NP doesn't mean much, the constant factor could be G_64. < 1281384939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1281384951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but it *could* also be quite small < 1281384962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could, yes, but that's the kind of assumption I'm not willing to make. < 1281384964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and did it stand up to other people checking it. < 1281384980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well indeed. I'm not assuming it is small. < 1281385004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's only 3 days since it first appeared. experts are discussing it as we speak. < 1281385010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not assuming it is large either < 1281385022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, who? < 1281385023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the godel's letter blog had a post on it today < 1281385026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281385034 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, the suitable track record of Vinay Deolalikar and his proof, which stated that P was smaller than NP for infinite time Turing Machines, lessen the chances of errors." < 1281385035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so it passed outside this channel < 1281385037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing < 1281385067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um that P != NP proof has nothing to do with #esoteric < 1281385067 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite time? Hello! < 1281385073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, to me that looks slightly incoherent < 1281385086 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No no! Vinay is a long-time esolang enthusiast! < 1281385088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"“But enough question-dodging!” you exclaim. “Is the proof right or isn’t it? C’mon, it’s been like three hours since you first saw it—what’s taking you so long?” Well, somehow, I haven’t yet found the opportunity to study this 103-page manuscript in detail." < 1281385094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there are lots of variations of P vs. NP question < 1281385100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh thought it did < 1281385100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: um you serious? :D < 1281385103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1281385115 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ... < 1281385130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's already this: http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=456 -- "If Vinay Deolalikar is awarded the $1,000,000 Clay Millennium Prize for his proof of P≠NP, then I, Scott Aaronson, will personally supplement his prize by the amount of $200,000. I’m dead serious—and I can afford it about as well as you’d think I can." < 1281385148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders whether to install a Flash version with a known security vulnerability. < 1281385149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I thought someone in here claimed something about working on a secret P?=NP proof < 1281385153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it agur? < 1281385157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: he _could_ be from here, not everyone here has revealed their real name < 1281385160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm ... hmm ... yes. < 1281385160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err spelling < 1281385167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh that's cpressey :D < 1281385182 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's *my claim* that he invented the following languages: Spray, SixBucks, and KomputerNO. < 1281385183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh right, I initially thought we talked about that proof < 1281385197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i sincerely doubt his real name is something indian < 1281385197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I have been on holiday, I haven't been able to keep up with news < 1281385206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you forgot Findimate < 1281385207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, only been on from slow hotel wlan a few hours every day < 1281385223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And "Six Reversed Quail Sausages". < 1281385246 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "there are lots of variations of P vs. NP question" -- but I've *read* the def'n from the Millenium Prize committee, and I don't remember anything about "infinite time". < 1281385248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* alise ponders whether to install a Flash version with a known security vulnerability. <-- why not go for a secure one... oh wait that is unlikely to exist < 1281385288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://logcom.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/5/577 < 1281385308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two co-authors < 1281385318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they retracted the native 64-bit version < 1281385321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for linux < 1281385328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so the only available one is an older one with some known vulns < 1281385330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281385335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nspluginwrapper? < 1281385338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm hideously irresponsible :) < 1281385339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was called < 1281385347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: has some mouse click issues and i think AV sync is a bit wonky < 1281385355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sometimes/often mouse clicks won't register) < 1281385367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, youtube? I find youtube-dl and mplayer or vlc gives better result anyway < 1281385374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the the last version < 1281385386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the one in ubuntu and arch is too old to work with youtube atm < 1281385386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: by "variation" i mean other questions that are slightly different (often by adding an oracle) < 1281385392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well ... the OS X users have a lovely browser plugin that replaces YouTube videos with an embedded native video player. < 1281385398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a single file to download < 1281385400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think there's anything similar for other browsers. < 1281385400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and chmod +x < 1281385437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Shame, too. < 1281385446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Flash player for Youtube sucks ass. < 1281385448 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, the article is sloppily referring to his *previous* (circa 2003) proof about infinite-time TMs. He has maybe extended the results to finite-time. < 1281385455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's some sort of "youtube enabler" for Firefox Mobile on N900 -- which I don't think did Flash properly, unlike the default browser -- that might do the same trick; haven't tried it. < 1281385456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll WRITE ONE! Okay, does anyone know if Greasemonkey is available for Midori? < 1281385469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has user script support. Hoorj! < 1281385471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact one of the main known obstacles to proving P ? NP is that the proof must not work if you add an oracle, because it's known that some oracles have P^O = NP^O and some have P^O != NP^O < 1281385472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Youtube without Flash Auto" < 1281385475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1281385477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, what a coinkydink. < 1281385491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ @description Adds links below the Youtube video to (a) download the video (HD .mp4 file, no converters are used, no external sites) (b) view the video with an embedded external player (like mplayerplug-in or the totem plugin) < 1281385495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mplayer yay I like mplayer. < 1281385521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :community/gecko-mediaplayer 0.9.9.2-1 < 1281385522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Browser plugin that uses gnome-mplayer to play media in a web browser < 1281385522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes please < 1281385528 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I never understood why you cannot simply say "I have a proof that P != NP when there is no oracle" < 1281385535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mplayer's plugin thing had some real issues way back then. But I'm sure it's been improved in the last five or so years. < 1281385583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, "because no one thought of doing that"? < 1281385600 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also say "I have a 'natural' proof that P != NP -- therefore certain one-way functions do [not?] exist" (or however that goes) < 1281385619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: of course you can, the problem is that _most_ methods in complexity theory allow you to add an arbitrary oracle to a proof < 1281385649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: heh < 1281385650 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have no doubt we're using crap methods, is the thing :/ < 1281385687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: natural proofs of P!=NP don't work, no? < 1281385699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well hopefully this guy found a non-crap method :) < 1281385703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Notably, assuming one-way functions exist, these proofs cannot separate the complexity classes P and NP." < 1281385704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1281385704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ah < 1281385714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, did you look at alise's disprof of Riemann < 1281385718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disprof! < 1281385723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*disproof < 1281385727 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...it seems to introduce some thought-provoking new ideas, particularly a connection between statistical physics and the first-order logic characterization of NP." from Scott Aaronson's blog. < 1281385733 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he's using physics -- oi. < 1281385738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is. < 1281385739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i looked at the page, then my brain promptly ran away screaming < 1281385740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statistical physics. < 1281385744 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Then -- oi. < 1281385749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oui. < 1281385779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is "statistical physics"? < 1281385805 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope it's mathematically defined. < 1281385826 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We measured the running time of several Turing machines and concluded that..." < 1281385850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, btw that disproof you made was done by some proof checker right? < 1281385858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a certain structure to it < 1281385861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope < 1281385865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281385873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i used a CAS to simplify the expressions though < 1281385882 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the proof checker in question is Alise, maybe < 1281385887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway yeah I can't help you check it due to my brain also running away screaming < 1281385896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away screaming for effect < 1281385900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281385918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_physics < 1281385925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Maybe you should take it to ##math or whatever it is. (Haha.) < 1281385958 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, you see, and I hesistate to point this out but, you see, um well, Turing machines aren't physical, er, objects, you know? < 1281385972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Presumably it's using some other facet of statistical physics ... < 1281385973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but if the proof was that short I strongly suspect someone else would have found it by now. Of course it could be correct, but you shouldn't be disappointed if it isn't < 1281385977 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mathematical results from statistical physics* I have no problem with. < 1281385984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I won't be, I'm just interested. < 1281385989 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But those are properly *in Statistics*, not physics. < 1281385999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway there is /some/ evidence to suggest that a simple proof of Fermat's Last Theorem is possible < 1281386005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. proof sketches with just a few "hard" holes < 1281386007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e.g. < 1281386018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: apparently random SAT instances are involved in the proof, i recall < 1281386034 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That sounds extremely likely. < 1281386053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sure. No one has found that yet though. Maybe those holes takes a lot of stuff to fill? < 1281386059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perhaps. < 1281386096 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Shannon had some proof a long time ago that "a randomly constructed formula has a big circuit", but for some reason that doesn't prove P != NP, although it totally should. < 1281386133 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I should totally be writing unit tests for my huge-ass infrastructure refactor right now. < 1281386260 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er < 1281386271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : IIRC there is a Monad instance in the standard library which is not a functor (in the mathematical sense); this is an egregrious abuse, but there you go. < 1281386276 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How well do I think Scott Aaronson can afford to give away 200 grand? < 1281386288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the functor law follows from the monad laws, surely < 1281386293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*laws < 1281386297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-s < 1281386327 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pshaw. Laws. < 1281386355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i mean it must also break a monad law, then < 1281386368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm < 1281386371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I really don't recall < 1281386433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM f x = x >>= return . f < 1281386454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x >>= return . id = x >>= return = x, monad law < 1281386497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1281386539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x >>= return . (f . g) = x >>= \t -> return (f (g t)) there has to be some way to use the third monad law there < 1281386540 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" If P≠NP is proved, then to whatever extent theoretical computer science continues to exist at all, it will have a very different character." < 1281386558 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... the proof DESTROYS THEORETICAL COMPUTER SCIENCE? Bitchen! < 1281386561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281386572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaaa < 1281386587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth will it change anything, it's the status quo < 1281386611 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a friggin' narrow view of "theoretical computer science". < 1281386617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: He thinks the proof will need so unbelievably earth-shaking paradigm-shifting insights, TCS will be all about it for the rest of time. < 1281386621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Goodness, midori is a nice browser. < 1281386626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: x_x < 1281386628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Who said that? < 1281386637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, enable the Customise Toolbar extension to get rid of that irritating Sidepanel button. < 1281386638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Himself, paraphrased a bit by myself. < 1281386640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has... A few handy features, and nothing stupid getting in the way. < 1281386643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I did that. < 1281386655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x >>= (return . g)) >>= (return . f) = x >>= \t -> (return (g t)) >>= return . f < 1281386661 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is Scott Aaronson, if that wasn't clear. < 1281386670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ah < 1281386703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := x >>= \t -> (return . f) (g t) = x >>= return . f . g, Q.E.D. < 1281386707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange. He's usually so smart. < 1281386754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It was the immediately preceding bit from cpressey's quotation: "P≠NP is exactly the ‘expected’ answer! But proving that expected answer has been the central goal of the field for 40 years—not so much (in my opinion) because the answer itself is in serious doubt, as because of how much will need to be learned about computation on the way to the proof." < 1281386759 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hate comments. < 1281386781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comments are the peanut gallery of the internet. < 1281386801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just plain nuts. < 1281386821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, < 1281386822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ha. < 1281387045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why won't mplayer wooork < 1281387302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if only there were ways to disable some other features. < 1281387307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the URL completion. < 1281387307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Like? < 1281387309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I no want. < 1281387311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I like it :( < 1281387341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to configure hardware audio volume from Linux? < 1281387344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in literal speaker volume, < 1281387346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, least irritating browser... < 1281387346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*volume. < 1281387359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought you liked Conkeror? < 1281387362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, least irritating 'normal' one. < 1281387380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I do, but its UI sometimes clashes with sites. < 1281387587 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281387648 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Since you used a theorem prover to help reformat your proof -- why not use it to check it? < 1281387835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like how WebKit doesn't suck, in contrast to Gecko. < 1281388016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAAAH < 1281388029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I didn't use a theorem prover. < 1281388041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, Midori blithely ignores fontconfig. I have no idea how to get it to use an un-suck font for Japanese. < 1281388042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no existing theorem prover has a complete enough formalisation of the reals to have the zeta function. < 1281388110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/bipbopbipbop < 1281388119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best channel ever < 1281388141 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1281388160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two Minute Sync Test Not Actually Rotated < 1281388161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or maybe it's rotated 360 degrees! How will you know? (Hint: use complex analysis.)" < 1281388205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome, AV sync works. < 1281388225 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: But surely you could pack about half of it into a lemma that only needs a rudimentary understanding of the reals, and auto-prove that, leaving the remainder easier to check. < 1281388237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray for OSSv4! < 1281388247 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, maybe not. < 1281388249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you have to manually prove < 1281388252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just checks the proof < 1281388255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in an awkward format) < 1281388262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Turns out theorem provers are a bit of a bitch. Anyway, my disproof is not very long. < 1281388264 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know - you've already *done* that though < 1281388265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't be hard to verify. < 1281388270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I haven't. < 1281388278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only used a computer to simplify some simple expressions. < 1281388279 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have you written, if not a proof? < 1281388286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written a proof. < 1281388293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not in the format it'd accept, which accepts no handwaving at all. < 1281388318 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm only suggesting you rewrite (as much of it as you can) in that format. < 1281388349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could just persuade oerjan to take a look at it. :) < 1281388388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, handwaving isn't really accepted anywhere in math. It isn't like people try to routinely hand-wave use of not yet proved hypotheses and so on. Oh wait, they are. < 1281388400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handwaving is very much accepted for trivial things. < 1281388409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think Wiles' FLT proof would have been simple if it proved every single thing it stated? < 1281388424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes I know. I was joking < 1281388430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yeah, exactly, if my disproof is correct that's quite a bit of mathematics out the door... < 1281388436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much stuff just implicitly depends on the Riemann hypothesis. < 1281388644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. < 1281388688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I would say the chances of it having a small but important flaw is more than 50%, considering how much time has been spent on trying to prove or disprove it < 1281388708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiles' first proof had a major flaw, but it was corrected. < 1281388717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1281388759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, actually he had to redo large parts to fix it iirc < 1281388833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large but not immense. < 1281388838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1281388851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but that is only because the complete proof was huge < 1281388884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, I've got HTML 5 video on youtube working. < 1281388903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Me too; with what? < 1281388908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iirc it proved one or two other open problems that it then used in the "main" proof. That kind of gives you some "modularity". < 1281388909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean YouTube's HTML5 support? < 1281388914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got it working with mplayer. Nyaah. < 1281388914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Youtube's HTML5 support. < 1281388917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It sucks. < 1281388930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest using the YouTube Without Flash Auto userscript (with some tweaking). < 1281388934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works fine with Midori (with some tweaking). < 1281388937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Linky? < 1281388944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supports native (likely mplayer), VLC and HTML 5. < 1281388945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or pastebin of tweaks) < 1281388948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'll pastie you my updated version. < 1281388955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. < 1281388984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, just using