00:00:20 -!- alise has left (?).
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00:00:31 <alise> it seems as if RS must be a single string
00:00:35 <cpressey> Carefully melt three of the candles together to form a figure "5".
00:00:36 <alise> not a string representing a bunch of options
00:01:04 <alise> When using gawk, the value of RS is not limited to a one-character string. It can be any regular expression (see Regexp).
00:01:12 <cpressey> I'm sorry Joey, you don't GET a birthday party this year.
00:01:19 <alise> cpressey: It's okay if pixley.awk only runs on gawk, right>?
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00:01:58 <alise> cpressey: ARE YOU INSULTING MY COEDING SKILZ
00:02:05 <alise> I'm very good at coeducationaling.
00:02:25 <cpressey> denigrating the awkgramming capacities of awk
00:02:40 <alise> HAVE YOU NOT READ AWKLISP?
00:03:18 <alise> Quick! Produce a regular expression that matches nothing.
00:04:07 <alise> hahaha wow it's working
00:04:16 <alise> ereswmara: No, that does not match anything.
00:04:19 <alise> Who are you again?
00:04:33 -!- ereswmara has changed nick to nooga.
00:04:33 <alise> ereswmara: no, no string matches it
00:04:36 <alise> matching always fails
00:04:49 <cpressey> alise: Your request was ambiguously worded.
00:05:57 <cpressey> so my next esolang is going to be called Pophery
00:06:10 <alise> cpressey: it has no numbers, right? right.
00:06:25 <alise> So let's see, what's the easiest part to parse. A symbol.
00:06:30 <alise> What are the valid symbol characters again?
00:06:32 <cpressey> Pophery, indeed, has no numbers either
00:07:32 <cpressey> I was trying to remember how to spell "Porphyry" and that came out.
00:08:10 <alise> /^[a-zA-Z!$%&*+\-./:<=>?@^_~][a-zA-Z0-9!$%&*+\-./:<=>?@^_~]*$/ {
00:08:34 <alise> Pixley: SIMPLE NO MORE
00:09:03 <cpressey> One advantage of implementing it in Scheme: I could ignore that sort of garbage
00:09:21 <cpressey> There's even a demented-looking emoticon in there
00:09:26 <alise> Ugh, lexical scoping is going to be a bitch.
00:09:30 <alise> type[parsed] = Symbol
00:09:34 <alise> /^[a-zA-Z!$%&*+\-./:<=>?@^_~][a-zA-Z0-9!$%&*+\-./:<=>?@^_~]*$/ {
00:09:35 <alise> type[parsed] = Symbol
00:09:51 <alise> Actually, I need to allocate parsed there.
00:10:13 <nooga> i need to learn Prolog quickly
00:10:48 <nooga> i need to learn goddamn Prolog
00:11:12 <nooga> my idiotic university requires Prolog for one course
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00:11:25 <nooga> how about lists and stuff
00:11:48 <alise> anyway, prolog is cool
00:12:15 <nooga> maybe it is, but I can't find any cool application for it... at least now
00:12:43 <alise> oh cool, you don't allocate lists in awk
00:12:46 <alise> they just sort of exist, always.
00:12:58 <cpressey> all praise the dark lord (awk)
00:15:42 <cpressey> Pophery is basically designed and implemented, but the example programs are not so easy for me to think about, so it's stalled
00:16:08 <cpressey> I need to get some running so I know whether I'm going to need to add an instruction though
00:16:52 <alise> http://pastie.org/1142600.txt?key=gzctp9xutdmiokiu2x4ag
00:16:57 <alise> anyone care to point out why this allocator doesn't work?
00:17:14 <alise> hmm, apart from decrementing next_ids_ptr when i shouldn't (when it's false)
00:17:49 <alise> function next_id() {
00:17:49 <alise> if (next_ids_ptr) {
00:17:49 <alise> return next_ids[next_ids_ptr--]
00:20:12 <alise> cpressey: does Pixley support (a . b) syntax?
00:20:29 <alise> cpressey: you don't specify so...
00:20:44 <cpressey> basically, if you don't see it in pixley.pix, you don't have to support it
00:20:52 <alise> so every pixley program is one value?
00:20:54 <alise> that's convenient too
00:20:59 <alise> (although I probably want a REPL, right?)
00:21:08 <cpressey> well, i don't think i defined input, which is too bad
00:21:26 <alise> pixley is one expression, so
00:21:27 <cpressey> a magical 'input' symbol which is bound to input would be ok
00:21:30 <alise> that makes things easier
00:21:35 <alise> how about a parameter to a lambda
00:21:39 <alise> every program is (prog input)
00:21:42 <alise> what format is it in?
00:21:45 <alise> all you have is symbols dawg
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00:22:39 <cpressey> you don't need to have string, for your s-expression to be in a text file
00:22:45 <cpressey> maybe i don't understand the question
00:23:15 <cpressey> (wait, does awk let you parse the command line?)
00:23:24 <alise> what variable is input
00:23:26 <alise> you said bind input
00:23:46 <cpressey> the symbol 'input' can be magically bound to some input s-expr provided by the interpreter
00:24:03 <alise> just have it that every program is
00:24:08 <alise> so you write a program as
00:24:08 <cpressey> so... the pixley program (cons input input) would... yeah
00:24:11 <alise> (lambda (input) ...)
00:24:15 <alise> (lambda (x) (cons x x))
00:24:27 <cpressey> *pretend* that there's a (lambda (input) ...) around the damn thing
00:24:34 <alise> cpressey: no, there should literally be one, this is scheme!
00:24:39 <alise> you should be able to do
00:24:48 <alise> (let ((compose ...)) (compose a-program another-program))
00:24:51 <alise> and let that be your function
00:24:53 <alise> of one argument (the input)
00:24:54 <nooga> is there a way to declare things in swi-prolog prompt ?
00:25:19 <cpressey> a pixley program is one value, right? then, if that value is a lambda, it makes sense for your interpreter to supply values (i.e. input) to it, before evaluating it
00:25:30 <alise> cpressey: before evaluating it?
00:25:36 <alise> calling a function causes the evaluation of its contents anyway :)
00:26:56 <SgeoN1> Any lick with HackFactor?
00:27:07 <cpressey> SgeoN1: We licked it real good
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00:28:06 <alise> you can't have () be a field separator
00:28:10 <alise> because you'll never see it
00:28:14 <alise> so basically /^$/ matches ( or )
00:28:31 <alise> gnu awk says which separator it was in a variable
00:29:53 <cpressey> alise: gah. write it however your like, Pixley's interface to the rest of the world is not rigorously define, nor should it necessarily be so
00:30:13 <alise> cpressey: i'm just babbling about my implementation
00:32:26 <nooga> i'd like to "zip" two lists in prolog
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00:34:53 <cpressey> nooga: i don't remember how to do that. rusty!
00:35:41 <alise> nooga: zip([X|Xs],[Y|Ys],[[X,Y]|Zs]) :- zip(Xs,Ys,Zs).
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00:36:02 <alise> zip([X|Xs],[Y|Ys],[[X,Y]|Zs]) :- zip(Xs,Ys,Zs).
00:38:18 <cpressey> DIMX(10),Y(10),Z(20):FORI=1TO10:Z(I*2-1)=X(I):Z(I*2)=Y(I):NEXTI
00:39:43 <cpressey> so anyway. back to screwing up the courage to code in Pophery...
00:41:41 <alise> nooga: on what input?
00:41:46 <alise> cpressey: I *believe* I have a working list parser now...
00:41:49 <cpressey> ERROR: toplevel: Undefined procedure: (:-)/2 (DWIM could not correct goal)
00:41:51 <alise> cpressey: Though it's so gnarly that I want to rewrite it already.
00:41:57 <cpressey> swi-prolog you're such a sweethear
00:41:57 <alise> cpressey: assertz((foo :- bar)).
00:42:00 <alise> all prologs do that
00:42:08 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '(' | awk -f pixley.awk
00:42:08 <alise> Unmatched ( on line 2
00:42:14 <nooga> zip([1,2,3],[4,5,6],Result).
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00:43:15 <nooga> i thought about something simmilar but with use of append
00:46:20 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '()' | awk -f pixley.awk
00:46:20 <alise> Unmatched ( on line 2
00:46:35 <nooga> they should implement some sort of switching
00:46:55 <cpressey> nooga: that would indeed allow them to achieve a higher voltage
00:46:59 <nooga> between query mode and the other mode
00:47:19 <nooga> experimenting would be easier
00:48:57 <cpressey> why do i design languages that rub my own brain raw?
00:49:42 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '(a)' | awk -f pixley.awk
00:49:42 <alise> Unmatched ( on line 1
00:49:50 <cpressey> i might just release the damn thing and let someone else tell me what kind of code you can write in it
00:50:00 <alise> but doesn't parse to anything
00:50:03 <nooga> alise: i'd like to have two modes, one, in which i could define predicates without having to write assertz() and then i could switch to query mode to query ;f
00:50:06 <alise> cpressey: wanna try and figure out this parser?!!!
00:50:15 <alise> nooga: it's called a file
00:50:21 <alise> cpressey: it's just AWK!
00:50:38 <nooga> yeah, but it's so uncomfortable
00:51:00 <nooga> save, load, query, change, save, load, query, uuuhg
00:51:21 <alise> load is just [filename-sans-extension]. iirc
00:51:21 <nooga> oh, i could implement simple prolog in ruby
00:51:26 <alise> though that may be gprolog-only
00:51:36 <alise> nooga: do you have any idea how hard it is to write the algorithm without it being always exponential?
00:52:04 <nooga> but the best way to learn a lang is to implement it
00:52:16 <nooga> who cares about speed or correctness :D
00:52:17 <cpressey> alise: i hear conan the barbarian uses awk
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00:55:10 <alise> cpressey: maybe I'll have that a pair with no car or cdr is NIL >:)
00:58:50 <SgeoN1> Just attempting to read Factor code is a chore
00:59:45 <alise> cpressey: that's (quote NIL-OBJECT)
01:01:57 <SgeoN1> I'm beginning to consider switching back to Smalltalk, but Factor has so many great things
01:02:03 <cpressey> i ought to write a pixley repl, then i could ask it
01:03:10 <cpressey> alise: "Like Scheme, a literal null list can be denoted by (quote ())."
01:06:20 <alise> It's a contrivance, a strategy.
01:06:34 <alise> An outline, a schedule.
01:06:54 <alise> It is an action, a conspiracy, a cable, a dodge; a game, a hustle, an intrigue, a plot.
01:07:02 <alise> CAN YOU TELL WHAT IT IS YET?
01:10:48 <cpressey> why the heck did i not write a repl for Pixley?
01:11:03 <cpressey> ah, so much evil to do, so little time
01:15:40 <alise> cpressey: this is so hard
01:16:05 <cpressey> alise: a) awk is not your friend b) copy what awklist does c) that's cheating
01:16:16 <alise> cpressey: d) I'm not cheating mwahaha
01:16:18 <alise> although (a) doesn't work atm
01:17:04 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '' | awk -f pixley2.awk
01:17:04 <alise> Complete lack of anything on line any-you-want
01:17:23 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '' | awk -f pixley2.awk
01:17:23 <alise> Complete lack of anything on line ... there were no lines!
01:18:44 <cpressey> alise: http://chasen.org/~daiti-m/etc/awk/walk.pdf
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01:22:57 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '(a )' | awk -f pixley2.awk
01:22:57 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '(a b )' | awk -f pixley2.awk
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01:25:24 <alise> cpressey: well, it parses (), one-element lists with the right parenthesis preceded by a space, and symbols.
01:25:35 <cpressey> i would write a preprocessor in awk
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01:25:48 <alise> Oh, and this works:
01:25:50 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '((()))' | awk -f pixley2.awk
01:26:35 <cpressey> can awk launch other programs>
01:26:51 <alise> maybe. but that's cheating
01:26:56 <cpressey> (it's not cheating if it launches another awk!)
01:27:18 <alise> if you had a shell to interpret the command string to run you'd use an interpreter written in sh instead, it'd be saner :)
01:29:41 <cpressey> can you swallow the whole damn program with one /.*/ match, then manually work on it with substr, while, etc?
01:30:56 <cpressey> and i'd put the comment "all your pixley are belong to us" beside the match
01:31:35 <alise> cpressey: dude, that's the thing i'm trying to avoid
01:31:38 <alise> i'm leveraging awk's strengths
01:31:42 <alise> not being boring like awklisp
01:31:55 <alise> it totally is, my parser is only utterly hideous.
01:32:06 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '(((a )))' | awk -f pixley2.awk
01:32:31 <alise> cpressey: is it acceptable if I just have the symbol chars be alphanumeric plus the hyphen?
01:33:17 <cpressey> http://chasen.org/~daiti-m/etc/awk/ (shift-JIS?)
01:34:34 <Hiant> What horrifying code monstrosity are you two creating?
01:34:50 <alise> Hiant: I'm implementing Pixley (Scheme subset) in awk!
01:34:57 <alise> SUCH TREMENDOUS FUN!
01:35:16 <alise> Hiant: YOU CANNOT DENY THE FUN
01:35:24 <Hiant> I just finished Hello World in fully optimized OTOH
01:35:53 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '((a43 (a)))' | awk -f pixley2.awk
01:35:59 <Hiant> ~?^?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"_>?~^~"?~^~"~<^~:_[>^?~^~"?~^~"
01:36:01 <Hiant> ?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"_>^?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"
01:36:02 <alise> GOD SAVE THE QUEEN
01:36:02 <Hiant> ?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"_>^?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"_>^?~^~"_
01:36:04 <Hiant> <<<<^?~^~'_]>^?~^~"?~^~"_.>^?~^~"_.^?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^
01:36:05 <Hiant> ~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"_..^?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"_.>^?~^~"?~^~"_.<<^
01:36:07 <Hiant> ?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"
01:36:09 <Hiant> ?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"_.>.^?~^~"?~^~"?~^~"_.
01:36:10 <Hiant> ^?~^~'?~^~'?~^~'?~^~'?~^~'?~^~'_.^?~^~'?~^~'?~^~'?~^~'?~
01:36:11 <Hiant> ^~'?~^~'?~^~'?~^~'_.>^?~^~".>.
01:36:41 <Hiant> okay okay, I am slowllly backing away...
01:36:44 -!- Hiant has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]).
01:36:56 <alise> i probably spammed more than you :D
01:36:58 <alise> Hiant: use a pastebin
01:37:04 <alise> to post long stuff
01:37:20 <madbr> you scared him away
01:37:22 <alise> scared off by the irc
01:37:29 <alise> madbr: i think your alt+f4 probably contributed :|
01:37:35 <alise> my STOPs were still arriving
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01:41:57 <cpressey> and Pophery has a cousin called Nhohnhehr
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01:53:44 <Hiant> Am I allowed back?
01:54:17 <alise> you were never meant to go :P
01:54:24 <alise> I just spammed stop because clients often don't see stuff while flooding
01:55:10 <Hiant> Oh. Well, sorry anyways.
01:55:13 <Sgeo_> On some clients, /flushq will stop the client from sending stuff
01:55:25 * Sgeo_ has no clue for ChatZilla
01:55:32 <coppro> man, supernovae are scary
01:55:46 <coppro> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/SN1994D.jpg that is a galaxy, and the supernova is just as bright
01:56:13 <alise> supernovae are awesome
01:57:07 <Hiant> Best explosions in the universe.
01:57:57 <lament> maybe the supernova is much closer. or much further away. terrible photo
01:58:50 <Hiant> I can only hope that two black holes collide. That would be even better.
02:01:47 <Hiant> The projected kickback would send a massive black hole hurtling through space, disrupting orbits etc all around it.
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02:02:24 <Hiant> Nostradamus never had a clue. What a way to go.
02:02:37 <alise> Hiant: I'd sort of like to survive
02:02:52 <Hiant> Technically, you might.
02:03:06 <Hiant> You would be trapped at the even horizon forever.
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02:04:05 <Hiant> Bad news, you would be staring into the darkest black in existence.
02:04:07 <coppro> Hiant: they wouldn't just merge?
02:05:09 <Hiant> coppro: Nope, actually its hypothesized that they would powerfully reject each other. Intro link:http://www.universetoday.com/13002/what-happens-when-supermassive-black-holes-collide/
02:06:29 <Hiant> Not to mention that the resulting x-ray blast would probably be even brighter (in the x-ray spectrum) then a supernova.
02:07:07 <alise> You might want to put a space after that colon so our pitiful clients link it :)
02:07:35 <Hiant> alise: I only noticed that afterward. A little late at that point.
02:07:45 <alise> let's just wham two galaxies with supermassive black holes in them together at near-lightspeed
02:07:53 <alise> best light show EVER
02:07:59 <alise> just make sure they're very, very far away from us
02:09:02 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Gregor-H.
02:10:23 <Hiant> Anyways, what esoteric languages does everyone like?
02:11:01 <Hiant> My personal favorite are the line-noise ones. (ex Unlamda)
02:11:26 <pikhq> Befunge '98 is quite amazing.
02:12:15 <alise> it's just hard to implement
02:12:23 <pikhq> alise: I like TRDS, okay?
02:12:36 <alise> pikhq: Don't remind me of MKRY. :-(
02:12:38 <pikhq> But. It's mostly amazing for being somehow practical and *not*.
02:12:50 <alise> I guess I still feel partly responsible for that. Maybe.
02:13:44 <pikhq> Hiant: Hmm. Brainfuck's a fairly commonly liked thing.
02:14:03 <pikhq> Not the world's most clever, or even *that* difficult, but there's something appealing to it nevertheless.
02:15:06 <Hiant> I agree about Brainfuck, but it carries a unique burden as well.
02:15:36 <pikhq> I'd say the single hardest thing about Brainfuck is memory management.
02:16:04 <Hiant> Brainfuck provides the simplest platform for Turing-complete languages.
02:16:08 <pikhq> Takes on a whole new level of "hard" when you need to do memory management for all variables and have a single pointer.
02:16:25 <Hiant> Meaning that it gets altered and morphed over and over again.
02:17:00 <Hiant> pikhq: I whole-heartedly agree. Ruby has me spoiled rotten.
02:17:32 <alise> cpressey: This is difficult.
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02:18:26 <Gregor> Looka my fancy new hostname :)
02:20:03 <Hiant> pikhq:Yeah, but when you need to quickly code something, nothings better.
02:20:56 <Hiant> Ruby practically counts as an esolang, anyways, because of the ability of name-space abuse.
02:21:02 <pikhq> Python, Perl, shell, Tcl, Javascript, beating yourself in the head with a mallet for a bit, sometimes even C...
02:21:15 <alise> cpressey: I don't know why awk is torturing me like this.
02:21:45 <alise> it appears to be excessively bitching
02:22:03 <alise> bitching is the technical term
02:22:42 <alise> Who wants to DEBUG my AWK?! pikhq!
02:24:06 <pikhq> Though you may get bitching.
02:24:30 <Hiant> Once you have seen really bad Ruby, its actually quite horrifying. I have seen line-noise that re-defines itself every few lines (ab)using alias.
02:24:47 <alise> pikhq: http://pastie.org/1142766.txt?key=k1iwgregkinotdieb8qg
02:24:58 <alise> pikhq: Yes, I know the RS-as-regexp thing is gawk only. It's required for my horrific parser structure.
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02:25:21 <alise> pikhq: Your job: Find out why "(a b)" parses as ().
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02:25:40 <alise> $ echo '(a b)' | awk -f pixley2.awk
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02:25:56 <pikhq> Clearly, your problem is that you are using awk.
02:26:26 <alise> pikhq: Okay. Now diagnose my actual bug. :|
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02:29:15 <Sgeo_> Factor has distributed concurrency
02:29:21 <cpressey> alise: You are using a finite-state automaton to do a push-down automaton's job.
02:29:22 <Sgeo_> It has everything I want except easy-of-reading
02:29:46 <alise> cpressey: Shut up :P
02:29:54 <alise> Sgeo_: that's probably just your BROKEN BRAIN.
02:31:58 <cpressey> alise: you never fixed next_id
02:32:15 <alise> cpressey: what's broken?
02:32:28 <zzo38> See if you can make something with the templates that I have added into esolang wiki
02:32:34 <cpressey> thought you said it needed a ++ instead of a --
02:32:42 <alise> cpressey: no, i worked it all out
02:32:45 <alise> it's totally fine.
02:32:51 <alise> the issue is in the parser
02:32:54 <alise> i think push_parsed()
02:33:38 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Gregor-L.
02:33:57 -!- Gregor-L has changed nick to Gregor.
02:34:45 <alise> Gregor! Fix a tok.
02:35:01 <Gregor> What does "fix a tok" mean?
02:35:02 <alise> Gregor: Could I persuade you to download that tarball outside HackEgo's root and then unpack it to inside?
02:35:34 <Gregor> In principle I'd rather actually fix whatever's wrong with HackBot, but in reality, sure.
02:35:39 <cpressey> Get real! Even Gregor oversleeps regularly.
02:36:20 <cpressey> alise: i have no idea what is wrong with your parser
02:36:50 <alise> Gregor: Fetchin' a link, just a secondamo.
02:36:59 <alise> Gregor: http://downloads.factorcode.org/linux-x86-64/factor-linux-x86-64-2010-09-06-03-01.tar.gz
02:38:08 <alise> WHYY IS MY KEYBOARD BROKEN
02:46:27 <alise> cpressey: FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT
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02:52:04 <alise> pikhq: DEBUG MY AWK
02:52:21 <alise> Ohh I see what I did wrong
02:54:19 <alise> But still it fails.
02:54:29 <madbr> someone should make a tonal esoteric language
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02:58:55 <alise> cpressey: [[If new calculations are correct, the universe just got even stranger. Scientists at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, have constructed mathematical formulas that conclude black holes cannot exist. The findings--if correct--could revolutionize astrophysics and resolve a paradox that has perplexed physicists for 4 decades.]]
02:58:56 <alise> cpressey: DAMN YOU
02:59:40 <pikhq> That creates another paradox.
02:59:51 <pikhq> Given that black holes have been observed.
03:03:17 <madbr> university of cleveland
03:04:35 <Sgeo_> alise, what's that PDF reader you recommended?
03:04:37 <Gregor> Black holes have not been observed, effects attributed to black holes have been observed.
03:04:45 <alise> Sgeo_: For Winsleep?
03:04:56 <alise> Gregor: pikhq: cpressey insists they are explainable otherwise
03:05:33 <pikhq> Gregor: Ah, right. Minor but probably important distinction.
03:07:02 <madbr> well, irl languages that have tone are like, each syllable, instead of being consonant+vowel, is consonant+vowel+tone
03:07:14 <madbr> where tone is typically something like high or low
03:07:53 <madbr> or hi/med/low, or hi/rising/falling-low-rising/falling
03:08:12 <madbr> dunno how that would be interpreted in a computer language
03:08:29 <pikhq> Eh, tonal languages are a pain.
03:09:04 <Gregor> alise: Conclusion: factor is fucking enormous :P
03:09:16 <alise> Gregor: It does include the default VM image...
03:09:19 <HackEgo> awklisp \ babies \ bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ qw.pl \ share \ tmpdir.6857 \ wunderbar_emporium
03:09:41 <Gregor> alise: I unpacked it and updated the hg repo, which was then 122MB and took a noticeable amount of time (say, 20 seconds) just to lndir it ...
03:09:46 <Gregor> (Which is to say, clone)
03:10:04 <alise> So is it... there?
03:10:15 <Gregor> Too friggin' annoying.
03:10:23 <Gregor> Actually makes me consider switching to svn as a backend.
03:11:03 <alise> Gregor: If I say "git", will you murder all my future babies?
03:11:20 <Gregor> alise: Would make no difference.
03:11:47 <Gregor> Because either way you're lndiring a 122MB directory and then copying a bunch of shit.
03:12:14 <alise> Gregor: Actually, git checkout -a is faster than cp.
03:12:27 <Gregor> Still takes too damned long.
03:12:31 <alise> Meanwhile: http://i.imgur.com/LOAMZ.jpg
03:13:57 <alise> Haha what, they've redesigned the iPod nano and it's now multitouch, despite being friggin tiny.
03:14:03 <alise> They chopped off everything that isn't the screen and now it's square.
03:14:11 <alise> http://images.apple.com/ipodnano/images/overview_featurette_design20100901.png
03:14:16 <alise> I can totally imagine scrolling that.
03:14:28 <alise> Gregor: It's hilarious in a way.
03:14:28 <Gregor> Especially since multitouch hasn't managed to advance past gimmick status on any other device.
03:14:37 <alise> Uhh, multitouch on my iPhone is pretty nice.
03:14:51 <Gregor> Other than the totally ridiculous pinch-zoom feature, where do you use it?
03:15:10 <cpressey> Gregor: is why I asked for pics. (it seems to me that if they do exist there's a good chance there's one somewhere that's between us and a nebula or galaxy, and we ought to be able to "see" it pretty directly)
03:15:19 <alise> Gregor: Trying to think XD
03:15:59 <cpressey> alise: according to awklisp guy, multitouch is the future
03:16:22 <Gregor> cpressey: Maybe it is, but right now nobody uses it to do anything you couldn't do with monotouch.
03:16:23 <cpressey> i stopped reading his blog at that point
03:30:07 <alise> Whyy is this so broke
03:30:25 <pikhq> Multitouch is perhaps the future for portable devices.
03:30:49 <pikhq> Touch-anything really, really, really, really sucks for anything that's not in your hands.
03:31:02 <pikhq> I am not holding my hand up to my desktop screen to touch it.
03:33:17 <Gregor> Things between us and PADDs:
03:33:26 <Gregor> 1) Apple's insistence on shitty overdone graphics.
03:33:43 <pikhq> 2) Everyone else's insistence on playing follow the leader
03:33:49 <pikhq> Especially on overdone graphics.
03:33:54 <Gregor> And that's ... like, it.
03:34:04 <Gregor> We'd have PADDs if Apple wasn't Appling out everything.
03:34:23 <pikhq> For instance: my WebOS device would actually be significantly better if it used, say, Grey Mist as its theme.
03:34:39 <pikhq> Rather than "use the CPU on graphics, not doing stuff".
03:36:28 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '(((a)b(c)))' | awk -f pixley2.awk
03:36:31 <alise> cpressey: IT BEGINS
03:36:47 <alise> pikhq: Your compliment is accepted.
03:36:57 <alise> Gregor: PADDs are rather more magical than just a good touchscreen.
03:37:07 <alise> For instance, nobody is ever seen entering information on them.
03:37:13 <alise> Or, indeed, typing anything, on anything.
03:37:24 <alise> Their laptops just have gigantic buttons and a bunch of space for keyboards.
03:37:28 <alise> (And tiny screens, too!)
03:38:04 <Gregor> alise: We see people entering information on them, like, all the effing time.
03:38:12 <Gregor> By boopin' and beepin' and typin'.
03:38:19 <alise> But there's nothing to fucking press!
03:38:34 <alise> You see people magically getting information on to them, but there's no obvious way in which they actually do it.
03:38:49 <alise> http://pastie.org/1142866.txt?key=gjb9qrkdcpbwx1xl2v4t0a THE ONLY S-EXPRESSION PARSER LEVERAGING AWK'S FULL EXPRESSIVE POWER
03:38:52 <pikhq> alise: Seriously, Grey Mist is very nice.
03:38:53 <Gregor> alise: They just don't show the screen when it's in input mode :P
03:39:06 <alise> pikhq: Donations accepted
03:39:14 <alise> Gregor: Why do their laptops have a few buttons and nothing else?
03:39:19 <cpressey> pikhq: you just need to put the touch device closer to where your hands naturally fall
03:39:21 <alise> Do you lunge over and flail your hands wildly on their far-away screen to type?
03:39:44 <Gregor> alise: I'll admit I have no idea to what device you're referring to when you say "laptops", since AFAIrecall they have no such device ...
03:40:08 <alise> Gregor: I know "All Good Things..." had one... let me Memory Alpha it up.
03:40:15 <pikhq> alise: Though not shown on-screen, the LCARS interface is a touchscreen thing with tactile feedback.
03:40:41 <alise> pikhq: I like how they never need to look at it to control it.
03:40:43 <pikhq> (as shown on screen, it was just colored plexiglass with backlights)
03:40:51 <pikhq> alise: Yes, it felt like actual buttons.
03:40:57 <pikhq> Do you look at your keyboard?
03:41:00 <alise> pikhq: Tactile feedback does not instant spatial interface recall make.
03:41:07 <alise> No, but my keyboard is always the same and densely packed.
03:41:30 <pikhq> It's actual buttons. You can has spatial interface recall.
03:41:31 <alise> Gregor: Gahh, I can't find a picture.
03:41:45 <pikhq> Well, psuedobuttons.
03:41:54 <alise> Oh goody, someone's uploaded it to YouTube so I can point you at a time.
03:42:04 <pikhq> (I wonder if each LCARS panel was a mini-holodeck?)
03:42:04 <Gregor> Aaaaaaanywho, I'm less concerned with LCARS in general (although that'd be a plus) than PADDs in particular.
03:42:14 <alise> LCARS was pretty ugly though
03:42:22 <Gregor> No. LCARS is perfection in UI form.
03:42:27 <alise> The colours, dude.
03:42:29 <pikhq> alise: It was meant to look practical and usable, not beautiful.
03:42:52 <alise> pikhq: They are not contradictory goals.
03:42:55 <pikhq> "Something that would be on a bridge", not "something that would make Steve Jobs proud".
03:43:11 <alise> Then how come the Enterprise is designed for slickness in every other way?
03:43:16 <pikhq> Still, I will grant that the coloring was vomit on vomit.
03:43:24 <pikhq> alise: Because fuck you logic.
03:43:35 <Gregor> Probably don't need to stick with the COLORS, just the DESIGN :P
03:43:42 <pikhq> The rest of it was, of course, a cruise ship.
03:43:55 <alise> Gregor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i6RSZYGy2E#t=4m11s
03:44:57 <Gregor> alise: What, that? I never considered that to be a laptop-alike, I thought it was a stationary comm device ...
03:45:18 <alise> Gregor: That would be stupid; why would they make a solitary comm device, with the flexible interfaces they have?
03:45:21 <alise> Fuck, they have voice interfaces.
03:45:32 <alise> cpressey: Should a Pixley interpreter read "42" as a number?
03:45:34 <alise> Without the quotes.
03:45:36 <alise> cpressey: Should a Pixley interpreter read "42" as a symbol?
03:45:38 <alise> Without the quotes.
03:45:43 <alise> Technically, it'd be a syntax error now, but that seems bizarre.
03:47:49 <alise> Sweet, I can implement booleans as symbols.
03:47:58 <alise> What hath god wrought?
03:48:09 <pikhq> alise: The first thing to realise about Star Trek technology is that they hate using their tech wisely.
03:48:31 <pikhq> For instance. They apparently have *true AI*.
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03:48:39 <pikhq> Why the hell do they actually *man* their ships?
03:49:59 <alise> pikhq: Because Patrick Stewart.
03:50:16 <pikhq> alise: Explain Voyager.
03:50:42 <alise> pikhq: Seven of Nine.
03:50:51 <pikhq> If they were smart, Voyager would have been manned by the Doctor.
03:51:00 <alise> (If the only reason she was in the show was fanservice, it stands to reason that ...)
03:51:11 <alise> (... I'm not sure how anything stands to reason, but there you go.)
04:00:21 <alise> cpressey: I have figured out how to do a REPL.
04:01:24 <alise> cpressey: I'll just parse it as a symbol then.
04:01:30 <cpressey> if you treat it as a symbol... that would be valid Pixley but invalid Scheme, I think.
04:02:33 <cpressey> well, it's undefined pixley. therefore not invalid.
04:02:55 <cpressey> (to be a bit more political about it)
04:03:09 <alise> How strange; it works now.
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04:04:17 <Gregor> Somebody linked me at http://10gui.com/video/
04:04:38 <Gregor> I'd like to see a hybrid of some of those ideas with LCARS.
04:04:43 <Gregor> (Not all of those, since a lot of those ideas are crapsulistic ... )
04:04:47 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '()' | awk -f pixley2.awk -v repl=1
04:04:47 <alise> [ehird@dinky pixley]$ echo '(+ 2 2) ()' | awk -f pixley2.awk -v repl=1
04:04:58 <alise> Gregor: EVER TRIED WRITING A LISP REPL USING AWK?
04:05:03 <oerjan> 17:08:31 <alise> a punning clan
04:05:04 <oerjan> 17:10:19 * cpressey cues oerjan
04:05:07 <Gregor> alise: No. No I have not :P
04:05:10 <alise> And I mean REALLY using awk, writing the parser using awk patterns.
04:05:12 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure i've heard that before
04:05:14 <alise> Because that is fucking hard.
04:05:17 <alise> oerjan: i've said it before
04:06:44 <oerjan> my memory is too vague to be sure i've heard it from anyone not-alise, alas
04:08:06 <oerjan> <alise> "There is no compiler, only a tree-walking interpreter. BTW, I do not think that there are many tree-walking interpreters out there that do tail call optimization. ArrowLISP does."
04:08:12 <cpressey> sigh. I'm going to have to add another instruction to Pophery. Or another slot (=register), but forget that.
04:08:16 <oerjan> also Unlambda in INTERCAL >:)
04:08:35 <alise> cpressey: care to describe it?
04:21:09 <alise> cpressey: what's `which awk` for you?
04:22:23 <alise> dfg why does this happen
04:23:26 <alise> it reads two symbols at a time
04:24:16 <oerjan> hey, i recognize that nick from the iwc forums
04:24:44 <cpressey> alise: /usr/bin/awk... it's mawk, not gawk
04:25:09 <alise> cpressey: do you have /bin/awk?
04:25:47 <oerjan> (isn't that the guy with an avatar that is a piet program...)
04:32:28 * Sgeo_ wonders if Factor will ever be mainstream
04:33:29 <alise> #!/usr/bin/env bash
04:33:30 <alise> # Run with -r to start the REPL.
04:33:30 <alise> exec awk -f <(tail -n +4 "$0") "$@"
04:33:54 <Sgeo_> Is Factor installed on HackEgo?
04:34:04 <Sgeo_> `factor "Hello world" print
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04:34:44 <oerjan> Sgeo_: HackEgo isn't the one with many languages anyway. i don't think EgoBot has it either though
04:34:44 <HackEgo> awklisp \ babies \ bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ qw.pl \ share \ tmpdir.9067 \ wunderbar_emporium
04:35:06 <HackEgo> addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ fuck \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ penis \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runasperl \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ twat \ unstr \ url \ vagina \ wolfram
04:35:21 <HackEgo> I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals.
04:35:25 <HackEgo> I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals.
04:35:31 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ echo "I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals."
04:35:40 <HackEgo> I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals.
04:36:05 <Sgeo_> Wasn't Gregor doing something or other manually?
04:37:38 <HackEgo> bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr
04:37:46 <Sgeo_> Gregor, where'd you put the files?
04:39:41 <Sgeo_> `run locate factor
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04:40:57 <Sgeo_> `run echo "factor nonfactor > ."
04:41:37 <oerjan> cpressey: i'm pretty sure that false is an ordinary linux command, not an esolang
04:42:31 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
04:42:36 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
04:42:55 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor he hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh simpleacro slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg
04:42:58 <pikhq> Hey, it's got dimensifuck in there. Never noticed.
04:43:03 <oerjan> no factor there either
04:43:03 <cpressey> that seems like more that iremember
04:43:09 <Sgeo_> Factor is not an esolang
04:43:26 <pikhq> Unfortunately, it's not Turing complete in one dimension.
04:43:47 <oerjan> pikhq: you can load from the web
04:43:48 <cpressey> false.c doesn't build on modern c compilers and it'd be a sizable task to fix it
04:43:53 <pikhq> oerjan: Yes, I know.
04:44:01 <cpressey> and the original false is written in 680x0 asm
04:44:38 <cpressey> !yodawg the original false is written in 680x0 asm
04:45:16 <cpressey> !sffedeesh the original false is written in 680x0 asm
04:45:17 <EgoBot> zee ooreeginel felse-a is vreettee in 680x0 esm
04:45:29 <cpressey> !cockney the original false is written in 680x0 asm
04:45:30 <EgoBot> the bloody original false is written in 680x0 asm
04:45:55 <cpressey> !postmodern_aoler the original false is written in 680x0 asm
04:45:56 <EgoBot> TTED KENNEDY OR1GINAL FALSE IS SEMIOTICALLY WR1TTEN 1N TH3 PENETRATED 5PACE OF 680X0 A5M
04:46:11 <cpressey> THERE we go. NOW we're cookin' with gas.
04:46:33 * Sgeo_ cooks cpressey's goose
04:47:17 <pikhq> cpressey: Awesome.
04:47:33 <pikhq> !postmodern_aoler Now we're cookin' with gas.
04:47:34 <EgoBot> NOW WE"RE CUUK1N" W1TH GA5.
04:53:13 <oerjan> !cockney Use your brain
04:53:55 <Sgeo_> Well, there's a Factor bot running in another channel
05:00:39 <Sgeo_> It is _way_ too easy to make unreadable code in Factor
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06:50:20 <Vorpal> and.... bbl university
06:57:59 <oklopol> "<alise> let's just wham two galaxies with supermassive black holes in them together at near-lightspeed" <<< two galaxies will pass each other without any interaction, probably
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06:58:13 <oklopol> obviously you'll double light output anyway but
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07:02:32 <oklopol> i'd love to talk but i'm OFF TO THE *UNIVERSITY* NOW
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07:40:31 <EgoBot> Gforth 0.7.0, Copyright (C) 1995-2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
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09:28:22 <Deewiant> http://mamememo.blogspot.com/2010/09/qlobe.html
09:30:58 <fizzie> Deewiant: You are late with that.
09:31:21 <fizzie> Deewiant: (alise, I think, pasted that link at some point yesterday evening.)
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14:14:06 <nooga> http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/ff_kryptos?currentPage=all#
14:14:15 <nooga> another mission for #eso ppl? :F
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14:56:57 <ais523> ooh, anagolf now does FlogScript
14:57:20 <ais523> I wonder if zzo38 knows yet?
14:57:57 <Sgeo_> Does anagolf do Factor? Smalltalk?
15:05:09 <ais523> it does Smalltalk but not Factor
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15:05:21 <ais523> (Smalltalk's unlikely to win golfing competitions, though, it's a rather verbose language)
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15:24:30 <cpressey> are you thinking what i'm thinking, Sgeo?
15:25:12 <ais523> Sgeo: if you do not respond to that question with the stock answer, I will be annoyed
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15:25:41 <Sgeo> Sure brain, but how are we going to get a thousand egg rolls?
15:26:02 <Sgeo> [Also, didn't want tor espond like that because my nick was Brain, not Pinky]
15:26:17 <Sgeo> [Also, hopefully, by "Stock answer" you meant "Answer in the typical form"
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15:52:27 * ais523 submits another anagolf challenge
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16:11:36 <Vorpal> * ais523 submits another anagolf challenge
16:11:56 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, there wasn't really very much else it could be a reply to
16:12:42 <ais523> http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?C+style+constants
16:15:05 <Vorpal> ais523, not simple for befunge93, it doesn't have 98 sadly
16:16:10 <ais523> it's not /that/ tricky for -93
16:16:58 <Vorpal> ais523, hm there doesn't seem to be any pattern to exploit for a cheating solution
16:17:17 <ais523> there isn't meant to be one
16:17:31 <ais523> or at least, if there is one, exploiting it is probably longer than a genuine solution
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16:20:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Doing that in a Coid with an eval function seems too easy.
16:22:32 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean, that's 40 bytes in Python without even trying.
16:23:54 <ais523> go for it, anagolf's all about finding those sorts of tricks
16:24:01 <ais523> I just did it in 22 bytes of shellscript
16:24:52 <ais523> see if you can get it below 10 in some lang, there's probably one that manages it
16:26:10 <ais523> submit it anyway if it works, you can always improve on it later
16:26:33 <ais523> the league tables only show each person's best submission for each lang
16:26:40 <ais523> and there's no penalty for a wrong submisison
16:30:32 <ais523> I completely /love/ anagolf's solution to PID abuse, btw
16:31:11 <ais523> basically, you can use the PID of your program as secret input
16:31:19 <ais523> and then keep running the program until you get the PID you want
16:31:29 <ais523> so instead of having to parse the input to find which run you're on, you just check the PID
16:31:42 <ais523> anagolf's solution to this is to allow people to just specify the PID so they don't have to brute-force it
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17:14:15 * ais523 solves the problem using m4
17:14:20 <ais523> because m4 ought to be used more often
17:14:35 <ais523> admittedly, it's rather esoteric m4; it's underquoted massively, due to being golfed
17:15:42 <ais523> here, I'll paste my solution so far; anyone see a way to improve this?:
17:15:50 <ais523> define(x,`ifelse(`$#',1,,`eval($1)
17:15:51 <ais523> x(shift($@))')')x(patsubst(include(/dev/fd/0),`
17:16:30 <ais523> wow, you can actually unquote the $# and it still works
17:17:06 <ais523> (I love the way you do input in m4, btw; the only method is via abusing include())
17:24:57 <ais523> yep, there's a timeout
17:25:13 <ais523> and entries submitted after the timeout aren't eligible for the leaderboard
17:25:16 <ais523> that way, there's a competition
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18:00:37 * pikhq says bork bork bork
18:03:30 <ais523> hmm, I'd like to put another esointerp problem up on anagolf
18:03:46 <ais523> but it's hard to a) find an esolang simple enough, and b) avoid cheating being used, somehow
18:04:48 <fizzie> ais523: Do you happen to know offhand if anagolf checks for trailing whitespace in the output?
18:06:04 <ais523> fizzie: it seems to not care about differences in a trailing newline, but does care about everything else
18:06:39 <fizzie> Hmm. Then the reference bef implementation must not be putting a space after . like it sort-of should.
18:07:09 <ais523> perhaps it doesn't check for trailing whitespace on a line
18:07:17 <ais523> hmm, easy enough to check with a hello world or something
18:07:37 <fizzie> It links to catseye.tc and mentions bef-2.21.zip.
18:07:49 <fizzie> (Made a quick'n'dirty b93 thing of your C-style constants; it's bigger than the Java one, the shame.)
18:08:27 <ais523> print "Hello, world! " is accepted as a hello world program
18:08:32 <ais523> so presumably it doesn't care about trailing whitespace
18:10:08 <ais523> wow, my bash was beaten; I thought it was pretty good
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18:22:23 * pikhq says "Koko ni ha minnna kà wakaranai ketò, yoku nihonnkò tè hanasu. Henn na koto tà ne?"
18:23:07 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: the perfect triplet of root vegetables
18:24:00 <pikhq> (「ここには皆が分からないけど、よく日本語で話す。変なことだね？」 for those of who would like to use a translator!)
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18:26:08 <oerjan> "Swedes and Norwegians cook rutabagas with potatoes, sometimes with the addition of carrots for color, and mash them with butter and cream or milk to create a puree called "rotmos" (Swedish, literally: root mash) and "kålrabistappe" (Norwegian). Onion is occasionally added. In Norway, kålrabistappe is an obligatory accompaniment to many festive dishes, including smalahove, pinnekjøtt, raspeball and salted herring."
18:26:49 <pikhq> oerjan: I'm not sure whether that is disturbing or delicious.
18:27:29 <oerjan> well the puree anyhow, i wouldn't go anywhere near smalahove
18:27:57 <oerjan> and while i like pinnekjøtt, it might be an acquired taste
18:28:51 <pikhq> Quite probably delicious.
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18:29:34 <oerjan> it's quite salty and dry though
18:30:15 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, "Although not everyone understands it, Japanese is often spoken/written. Isn't that strange?"
18:30:36 * ais523 does "C style constants" in Perl using nothing but letters and spaces
18:30:55 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: "Although everyone doesn't understand it, I often speak Japanese. Isn't that strange?" would be a better translation.
18:31:16 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Though that is actually quite valid itself if you don't account for context.
18:31:28 <fizzie> pikhq: No, I think I like Google's "I know everyone here, speak Japanese well. It's funny that?" better.
18:32:30 <pikhq> fizzie: Ah, yes. Because "yoku" also can be the adverbial form of "ii" (good)...
18:32:32 <ais523> I like the way anagolf can actually verify "alphanumeric only" and "no alphanumerics" claims
18:32:43 <pikhq> And... "I know everyone here" What?
18:32:45 <ais523> although there are no numbers in my submission there either
18:33:04 <fizzie> pikhq: 55 people on board, it's pretty impressive that you know everyone.
18:33:23 <pikhq> That's not even *close* to what the Japanese says.
18:35:17 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Correct answer.
18:36:10 <fizzie> It's not insane, it's statistics. Can't argue with statistics.
18:36:28 <pikhq> fizzie: Yup. And that is why Torino is a synonym for London.
18:36:48 <oerjan> "The International Rutabaga Curling Championship takes place annually at the Ithaca Farmers' Market on the last day of the market season."
18:37:36 <fizzie> We have this EU-funded Finnish-Japanese speech-to-speech with cross-lingual voice characteristics adaptation project (i.e. you speak it Finnish, out comes the same thing in Japanes *but as if you yourself were speaking it*); now *that's* insane.
18:38:04 <fizzie> It doesn't work, of course.
18:39:10 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i think swedes may object to being turned into puree.
18:39:34 <pikhq> fizzie: Best two languages for it.
18:39:45 <pikhq> After all, Finnish and Japanese are *clearly* related.
18:40:40 <fizzie> Perhaps they just wanted to add a bit of challenge, to make it, you know, a less trivial task.
18:44:02 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I just got back home. What are you talking about?
18:46:32 <fizzie> Vorpal: They're going to PUREE you.
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18:49:38 <Vorpal> fizzie, I wouldn't like that obviously
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19:11:36 <ais523> I could save three characters in the sed program if the time limit were higher; they're there just to make things more efficient
19:12:25 <ais523> make that two characters
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19:13:50 <impomatic> Is that Keymaker's quine in the topic?
19:18:26 <cpressey> can you have an algebraic structure which has an identity element and inervses, but is not associative? wait of course you can, I think... matrices?
19:19:49 <oerjan> matrices are associative
19:20:45 <cpressey> i always thought they were the classic counterexample
19:21:09 <oerjan> that would be to commutativity, probably
19:24:04 <cpressey> "The associative property states that the order in which operations are performed does not affect the final result as long as the order of terms is not changed. In contrast, the commutative property states that the order of the terms does not affect the final result." -- WP.
19:24:12 <cpressey> does that mean commutative implies associative?
19:24:45 <oerjan> octonions look like they might be a near example of what you want
19:25:13 <oerjan> their neither commutative nor associative, but they have identity and every non-zero element has an inverse
19:26:17 <oerjan> oh and 0 is not a multiple of anything else, so you can just remove it
19:26:20 <cpressey> any canonical examples of anything that's commutative but *not* associative, btw
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19:29:08 <cpressey> actually i don't have all the details on what i am working on (the apply / ylppa thing i was talking about with alise yesterday), i need to sit down and write it up before i'll really know what i'm dealing with
19:29:09 <oerjan> would you know there's a wikipedia article _specifically_ for that :D
19:29:16 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example_of_a_commutative_non-associative_magma
19:30:56 * ais523 attempts to golf an infinite loop in no-alphanumerics Perl
19:31:18 <ais523> the best I managed was the rather bizarre [$~..$]]
19:33:34 <ais523> oh, $], how you are loved by golfers
19:34:35 <ais523> it's not actually an infinite loop, just a very long one
19:34:41 <ais523> go go Perl busy beavers!
19:46:01 <fizzie> ais523: Uh... how does that work, exactly? I mean, if I perl -e 'use Data::Dumper; $thing = [$~..$]]; print join(" ", @$thing), "\n";' I get what I sort-of expected, "0 1 2 3 4 5"; but without the "use Data::Dumper;" bit (that I added to take a look of [$~] and [$]] separately) it indeed seems to be a very busy bit of code.
19:46:35 <ais523> let's see... $~ contains the name of the current filehandle format
19:46:47 <ais523> by default, the current filehandle is STDOUT, and the default format name is the handle name
19:46:55 <ais523> so $~ == "STDOUT" at that point in the code
19:47:09 <ais523> and $] is the version number, that's 7 characters long in this situation
19:47:23 <ais523> now, what .. does when the left arg is alphabetical is to count it upwards as a base-26 number
19:47:33 <ais523> e.g. STDOUT, STDOUU, STDOUV, etc
19:47:42 <fizzie> *Oh*. Yes, I see; I didn't quite know it did that.
19:47:54 <ais523> and if the right arg isn't alphabetical (the version number isn't), then it continues until it reaches a longer string than the right arg, AAAAAAAA
19:47:56 <ais523> this is going to take it a while
19:48:10 <ais523> (actually, that's not quite base-26, but you know what I mean)
19:48:42 <ais523> then the outside pair of square brackets put it into list context
19:48:50 <fizzie> How come it doesn't happen if I "use Data::Dumper", then? It doesn't change the values of $~ and $] at all, at least according to printing them out.
19:49:59 <ais523> it == "STDOUT" too, bu that's kind of pointless
19:51:13 <fizzie> Perl is sometimes a bit obscure.
19:52:26 <cpressey> *X ne [[X]] and pretend those are "semantics brackets"
19:52:53 <ais523> cpressey: well, $~ is defined to be the /name/ of the current filehandle format, not the format itself
19:52:59 <ais523> thus it exactly equals the string in question
19:53:22 <cpressey> ok, maybe i don't remember what prefix * means well enough
19:53:45 <cpressey> it alone is pretty "arg, ew"-y
19:53:53 * ais523 vaguely wonders why 99-bottles-of-beer.net has a "privacy" option, and why it just lists some guy's name and email address
19:54:01 <ais523> cpressey: oh, the * was a correction asterisk
19:54:16 <ais523> *$~ is, by default, the collection of all variables named STDOUT
19:54:24 <ais523> which I agree isn't equal to the string STDOUT itself
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19:59:42 <fizzie> http://p.zem.fi/perl-weird-1 -- I don't quite know why, but it looks as if "use Data::Dumper;" makes $] not a string.
20:00:45 <fizzie> (Also, .. seems to iterate strings only if both sides are strings. $a=$]+0; ["STDOUT"..$]]; never hangs.
20:00:55 <ais523> hmm, maybe it's doing a check for the version, and somehow casting the version to a number when it does?
20:02:48 <fizzie> Well, it has a "use 5.006_001;" in the Dumper.pm module. I don't think that *should* cause observable changes outside the module, but I guess it might.
20:03:27 * ais523 loves the way that the first reviews of the Malbolge 99bob that actually contained a loop concluded it was probably genuine on the basis that it was less than twice as long as its output
20:10:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
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20:23:20 <ais523> I explained it a bit earlier
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20:35:35 <Hiant> Are there any IDE's for Bitwise Cyclic Tag?
20:37:46 <oerjan> the refactoring menus of that must be something to behold...
20:39:34 * oerjan wonders if the above comment makes it obvious to everyone that he has never used an IDE
20:43:32 <Hiant> Hmmm, the general silence has provided me with an answer.
20:43:53 <ais523> most esolangs don't have IDEs
20:43:59 <ais523> although there's intercal-mode for Emacs
20:44:45 <Slereah> The best language there is.
20:45:05 <Slereah> (Also Brainfuck has a bunch of IDE)
20:46:02 <Hiant> Slereah: Yes, I am aware of that. I was mostly curious if one existed, and if so, what it looked like.
20:47:41 <Hiant> oerjan: Have you ever read Ms Paint Adventures?
20:49:18 <ais523> discuss: if a C compiler does not allow you to pass _Bools via varargs, is it broken?
20:50:11 <pikhq> varargs is standard C, so yes.
20:50:38 <ais523> except that the C standard states that varargs only has to deal with default-argument-promoted types
20:50:41 <ais523> and _Bool isn't one of them
20:50:56 <ais523> gcc compiles va_arg(x, _Bool) into an illegal instruction atm, along with a mandatory warning
20:51:14 <cpressey> i refuse to acknowledge the presence of bools in C, so... no
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20:52:37 <pikhq> Hrm. Sure enough, that's undefined behavior.
20:52:49 <pikhq> Okay then, not broken.
20:53:06 <cpressey> the world clearly needs more eso-IDEs (and eso-download managers)
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21:02:46 <ais523> reads arguments from a variable-length argument list
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21:19:23 <cpressey> Slereah: alise tells me you have access to the source code of a^Wthe Plain English compiler, and that it is AWESOME.
21:21:18 <oerjan> the AW Plain English compiler
21:21:31 <Slereah> I do have the plain english compiler
21:21:38 <Slereah> It is a horrible little thing.
21:24:00 <Slereah> I think it's somewhere on my website
21:24:29 <Slereah> http://membres.multimania.fr/bewulf/Russell/cal-3037.rar
21:26:44 <olsner> ah, raumpatrouille orion, I like it :>
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21:28:07 <Slereah> My favorite part is the "noodle"
21:28:17 <Slereah> It's the basic library of the language
21:29:00 <Slereah> Despite its claims of being all plain english without no fancy computer things
21:29:09 <Slereah> Inside it, there's a giant hexadecimal line
21:29:50 <Slereah> to put a byte into a wyrd:
21:29:50 <Slereah> intel $8B8508000000. \ mov eax,[ebp+8] \ the byte
21:30:11 <Slereah> But it has to, because one of its claim is that it can self compile.
21:30:21 <Slereah> And it does it in MACHINE CODE
21:30:35 <Slereah> And I guess they thought nobody would check.
21:31:05 <ais523> self-hosting but with inline machine code
21:31:22 <cpressey> self-hosting with inline machine code -- just like Shelta!
21:31:53 <Slereah> It is a fucked up little thing.
21:31:54 <cpressey> what disturbs me about this is, at one point, they had to bootstrap it...
21:32:11 <cpressey> i'm going to assume they just hand assembled the initial machine code
21:32:24 <Slereah> They don't want to touch some C
21:33:39 <Slereah> The current website is less funny than the old one :(
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21:42:01 <cpressey> So I'm starting to accumulate a distinct set of languages that, despite them wanting me to take them seriously, make me laugh: Falcon, Ursala, and Plain English. BancSTAR might also qualify. This is almost enough to make a list.
21:42:49 <ais523> I don't know of Falcon
21:43:19 <cpressey> Falcon has its own definitions of functional programming and of monads.
21:43:55 <pikhq> Slereah: That is significantly less funny.
21:44:24 <Slereah> "What would great personalities say about Plain English if they knew of it"
21:44:41 <cpressey> According to their website, Python and Ruby do not support "true" functional programming, but Falcon does. And it implements monads by setting an invisible bit that's present on every value, and having builtin functions like map react differently when they see that bit.
21:45:08 <cpressey> (Still trying to figure that one out. Ask Phantom_Hoover if you need more details.)
21:45:26 <Slereah> http://web.archive.org/web/20100907204452/http://www.osmosian.com/page04.png
21:45:47 <Slereah> Esolang or just plain lang?
21:45:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Slereah, take all of the languages and throw them at each other,
21:45:52 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: are they actually monads, implemented in an insane manner? or something that's called a monad but isn't?
21:46:03 <Slereah> Phantom_Hoover : I already tried that
21:46:10 <Slereah> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Limp
21:46:28 <ais523> btw, I just ported C-INTERCAL to clang, as a portability check
21:46:31 <pikhq> Slereah: The manifesto is just as funny as it was.
21:46:50 <Slereah> But the manual is the best <3
21:47:00 <cpressey> I dunno, oerjan said he thought about adding monads to (Unlambda, was it?) in a way that sounded weirdly like what Falcon does...
21:47:10 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: ah, OK
21:47:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Falcon's type system is nowhere near expressive enough.
21:47:20 <cpressey> At best, they are whacky eso-monads.
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21:48:46 <Phantom_Hoover> But they were planning to do it by adding some bookkeeping information to a value and then tagging it, which is a completely insane way of implementing monady things.
21:50:23 <cpressey> Slereah: whoa, alise told me about that "ad" too... that's... wow
21:50:40 <Slereah> I just noticed that the picture had a "quote" from Leopol Kronecker
21:51:02 <Slereah> Very fitting, because I always felt Kronecker was a douche with weird expectations about what math should be
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21:58:23 <Phantom_Hoover> Incidentally, I was thinking about a graph-based language in which all graphs have to be planar.
21:59:25 <cpressey> The least well-defined problem ever.
21:59:50 <cpressey> "Writing a Plain English compiler" is a better contender for stupidest.
22:00:14 <cpressey> Slereah: It means you can put the graph on a plane, and none of the edges cross
22:00:44 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, what is your idea?
22:01:14 <Slereah> I seem to recall that you can simulate a game of life with a planar graph
22:01:37 <Phantom_Hoover> But there are TC CAs with planar graphs, so it's irrelevant.
22:01:37 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: Who are you "no"ing?
22:02:38 <cpressey> istr 110's isn't planar, but whatever
22:03:43 <Slereah> When you say 'the corner cross'
22:03:47 <Phantom_Hoover> It had something to do with networked communication betwixt non-adjacent nodes, though.
22:05:21 <Phantom_Hoover> It has memed its way into my head from Wikipedia's page on lame edit wars.
22:07:15 -!- comex has changed nick to TheProtomotor.
22:07:39 <cpressey> it's weird when you hear it in a pop song
22:07:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Slereah, the crossing in the Moore neighbourhood is because the diagonals of the squares cross.
22:10:29 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:11:34 <Phantom_Hoover> (Ask me about oerjan's neat proof that you can't have Life on a sphere)
22:14:17 * oerjan cackles evilly in B flat
22:14:53 <cpressey> Now, if you want to cover the *whole* sphere with Life, that may be a different matter
22:15:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, more generally, you can't put the Moore neighbourhood on a sphere.
22:16:03 <oerjan> hm that _is_ a point... you could put life on a sphere if you made the grid infinite
22:16:35 <cpressey> Er what? It's like you both missed what I thought was the obvious hole I was exploiting
22:17:04 <oerjan> cpressey: unstated assumption is you have no border cells
22:17:15 <Slereah> You could make a Life-like automaton on a sphere, I guess
22:17:23 <Slereah> I wonder if it has been made
22:18:28 <oerjan> hm wait an infinite grid would have to miss the convergence point, it couldn't be a covering by cells, just dense
22:18:28 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if oerjan's proof holds for all tilings of a sphere
22:19:26 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm almost certain it does, but I could be missing something
22:19:27 <cpressey> oerjan: Is the actual proof short? I can see why you can't map it to a sphere, but I can't put it into words
22:19:47 <cpressey> k, not something I'm familiar with
22:19:58 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: anything infinite would cause infinity - infinity ambiguity, i'd think
22:20:19 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, faces + vertices - edges = Euler characteristic
22:20:19 <cpressey> oerjan: I know I've seen a paper trying to extend CA results to "infinitely small cells"
22:20:57 <Phantom_Hoover> The EC of the Moore neighbourhood is 0, so it can only fit on surfaces with EC 0.
22:21:05 <Slereah> Also an infinite sphere would basically be flat for all purposes.
22:21:34 * Phantom_Hoover suspects that an infinite sphere is topologically a plane in all senses.
22:21:54 <oerjan> ...define infinite sphere
22:22:10 <cpressey> diameter is infinity. obviously
22:22:39 <Slereah> Yeah, it is basically a plane.
22:23:00 <Slereah> To reach a region that would make a difference, you'd have to travel an infinite distance.
22:23:05 <oerjan> adding a single point of infinity to a plane gives a topological sphere
22:24:18 <oerjan> in reverse, removing a single point from a sphere gives a topological plane
22:24:43 <oerjan> adding an infinite line
22:25:16 <oerjan> also, you can get the projective plane by identifying the antipodes on a sphere
22:25:34 <Slereah> Topology is rather a nightmare.
22:25:52 <cpressey> <oerjan> in reverse, removing a single point from a sphere gives a topological plane
22:26:21 <cpressey> i like the nightmare that is topology
22:26:23 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, makes sense if you remove the Common Sense Particle.
22:26:48 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: I played that game, yes
22:26:51 <olsner> topology seems properly mindbending, I should learn me some topology some time
22:27:22 <cpressey> so, is the topological plane not infinite, or is the topological sphere infinite? guessing the latter
22:27:35 <cpressey> or that the concept doesn't apply
22:27:41 <oerjan> infinity matters not for topology
22:28:40 <cpressey> although a large part of me is screaming, silently, right now, i have to admit
22:28:43 <oerjan> or rather, topology needs not preserve distance
22:28:53 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, what are the topological definitions for the sphere and plane?
22:29:14 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: anything homeomorphic to the usual sphere and plane...
22:29:55 <oerjan> homeomorphic means you have a map between them which is a bijection, continuous, and whose inverse is continuous
22:31:37 <cpressey> can i abuse how "continuous" is defined?
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22:32:07 <oerjan> continuous means: the inverse map of an open set is open
22:32:53 <cpressey> well, i might have to come up with an unorthodox way of defining open sets, then
22:33:13 <oerjan> sure, as long as they satisfy the necessary axioms
22:33:37 <pikhq> You know something that really upsets me?
22:33:44 <oerjan> (finite intersections and arbitrary unions of open sets are open)
22:34:00 <pikhq> In many states of the US, a felony conviction can result in permanent disenfranchisement.
22:35:25 <fizzie> "Invited Talk: Graphical models in Microsoft's online services: TrueSkill, AdPredictor, and Matchbox; Thore Graepel (Microsoft Research)"; I wonder if it's from the same place Gregor is nowadays.
22:35:32 <Phantom_Hoover> That's a bit more upsetting than people with annoying faces, I must say.
22:35:54 <cpressey> fizzie: I believe his internship is over
22:35:58 <pikhq> (fortunately, in the *majority* of states, one is only disenfranchised while serving the sentence in some fashion (depends on state, but may be either: while in jail; while in jail or on parole; or while in jail, on parole, or on probation)
22:36:31 <pikhq> fizzie: Also, I don't *think* he was interning at Microsoft Research.
22:36:39 <cpressey> pikhq: I'm pretty sure he was?
22:36:49 <fizzie> cpressey: Maybe that's just what he *says*. Also, implants subconscious mind control brain-washing conspiracies.
22:36:55 <cpressey> Sorry, annoying correction-question-mark.
22:36:58 <pikhq> (not that I'd blame him if he were; MS Research is the branch of Microsoft that's genuinely good and worthwhile. :P)
22:37:29 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Unconditionally, Kentucky and Virginia.
22:37:56 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Conditionally, Alabama, Arizona, Deleware, Florida, Mississipi, Nevada, Tennesee, Wyoming.
22:37:58 <fizzie> He said he was at MSR; but upon further clickery, our invited speaker comes from MSR's Cambridge lab, so I guess it's pretty unlikely they know each other.
22:38:05 <pikhq> Only 10 states, but that's 10 states too many.
22:39:07 <pikhq> Probably something along the lines of "Hard on crime: DONT LET THE EVIL PEOPLE DECIDE!!!!"
22:40:33 <pikhq> Of course, if you really want to vote after getting out of jail, one could simply... Move.
22:41:30 <oerjan> apparently in norway you can now only be disenfranchised for treason or election fraud
22:41:57 <oerjan> neither of which are particularly common afaik
22:42:17 <pikhq> I'd say disenfranchisement while in jail would maybe be acceptable... If jail terms in the US were at all reasonable.
22:42:59 <pikhq> ... And incarceration rates, really.
22:43:13 <cpressey> I have no problem with disenfranchisement while incarcerated. Much bigger problem with why you can be incarcerated, yeah.
22:43:59 <pikhq> As it is, we've got a bit over 1% of the population in jail at any one time.
22:45:19 <pikhq> It gets even more absurd when you count probation and parole.
22:45:54 <pikhq> Some 32% of the population is in jail, on probation, or on parole at any one time.
22:46:06 <pikhq> *Thirty. Two. Percent.*
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22:47:04 <pikhq> Erm, sorry, I fucked up the percent calculation a lot.
22:47:11 <pikhq> No wonder it was motherfucking ridiculous.
22:47:41 <pikhq> That's... Still fucking ridiculous.
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22:56:41 <alise> 06:56:57 <ais523> ooh, anagolf now does FlogScript
22:56:42 <alise> 06:57:20 <ais523> I wonder if zzo38 knows yet?
22:57:46 <ais523> looks like my sed, Haskell, and m4 is still on top of the leaderboard for the anagolf puzzle I set
22:58:15 <ais523> the sed uses exec, but the sedness really helps
22:58:34 <ais523> and the haskell is just a pain, because unlike most langs there it doesn't have a builtin way to parse C-style constants
22:59:36 <alise> 08:31:42 <ais523> anagolf's solution to this is to allow people to just specify the PID so they don't have to brute-force it
22:59:42 <alise> does the pid count to code size? :P
23:00:00 <alise> how do you set it?
23:00:18 <ais523> there's a separate page for setting the next pid to be used by the server
23:00:22 <alise> ah http://golf.shinh.org/setpid.html
23:00:28 <ais523> and then you submit your code just afterwards
23:00:39 <alise> still, i don't like it much
23:00:41 -!- cpressey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:00:47 <ais523> heh, fizzie's Befunge beats the best C# entry
23:00:51 <alise> ais523: has the number of cheat programs decreased since last time?
23:01:02 <ais523> I'm not sure; the problem I just submitted is probably immune to cheat programs
23:01:07 <ais523> because legit solutions are so much shorter
23:01:16 <alise> http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Sokoban *someone's* trying to cheat at NetHack!
23:01:46 <alise> all the programs are cheats
23:01:51 <alise> and don't even say so
23:02:09 <ais523> alise: none of the programs are cheats
23:02:23 <alise> you can't solve ascii sokoban in 6 characters of golfscript
23:02:27 <alise> or 8 characters of sed
23:02:38 <ais523> and the reason is, that the problem's asking for what the final state is
23:02:44 <alise> but it says *solve* them
23:02:49 <ais523> and there is a very simple algo for working out that
23:03:18 <ais523> actually solving those puzzles would lead to timeout, btw; Sokoban's NP-hard, and those puzzles are large enough that a generic solver wouldn't do it in 3 seconds
23:03:35 <fizzie> ais523: There's some empty space in the middle of the program, it should be simple-ish to cut it down a bit smaller, but maybe not so easily down to the Java entry size. It doesn't exactly have built-in way to parse C-like constants either.
23:03:38 <alise> http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Hangul+resyllabification haha oh boy
23:04:01 <alise> all the entries are cheats, I think
23:04:37 <ais523> I doubt it, they're too small to just contain a copy of the output
23:04:43 <ais523> and it's not a massively hard problem, by the look of it
23:04:57 <alise> ais523: challenge idea: "ASCII to EBCDIC" (or the other way around) without using any built-in conversion functions
23:04:57 <ais523> it's basically "move a consonant from the end of one syllable to the start of the next if it starts with a vowel"
23:05:11 <alise> ofc, people will likely just ignore the latter
23:05:15 <ais523> and the only reason that looks difficult is that it's in Korean
23:05:18 <alise> still, it seems the situation has improved
23:05:55 <ais523> people are getting better at writing more robust challenges
23:06:03 <ais523> three testcases is not the way to do things; rather, a thousand is
23:06:11 <ais523> that way, a genuine solution may be shorter than a cheat solution
23:06:40 <alise> I still think the culture needs improving.
23:06:48 <alise> If they can cheat nobody thinks not to.
23:06:59 <ais523> you just make a new challenge, that's more secure
23:07:10 <ais523> my C-style constants challenge was pretty much intended to see creative cheat-style solutions
23:08:08 <alise> wow, the solutions to parts 1-3 of Kryptos are cool
23:08:15 <alise> BETWEEN SUBTLE SHADING AND THE ABSENCE OF LIGHT LIES THE NUANCE OF IQLUSION //
23:08:18 <alise> IT WAS TOTALLY INVISIBLE HOWS THAT POSSIBLE ? THEY USED THE EARTHS MAGNETIC FIELD X THE INFORMATION WAS GATHERED AND TRANSMITTED UNDERGRUUND TO AN UNKNOWN LOCATION X DOES LANGLEY KNOW ABOUT THIS ? THEY SHOULD ITS BURIED OUT THERE SOMEWHERE X WHO KNOWS THE EXACT LOCATION ? ONLY WW THIS WAS HIS LAST MESSAGE X THIRTY EIGHT DEGREES FIFTY SEVEN MINUTES SIX POINT FIVE SECONDS NORTH SEVENTY SEVEN DEGREES EIGHT MINUTES FORTY FOUR SECONDS WEST X LAYER TWO //
23:08:19 <alise> SLOWLY DESPARATLY SLOWLY THE REMAINS OF PASSAGE DEBRIS THAT ENCUMBERED THE LOWER PART OF THE DOORWAY WAS REMOVED WITH TREMBLING HANDS I MADE A TINY BREACH IN THE UPPER LEFT HAND CORNER AND THEN WIDENING THE HOLE A LITTLE I INSERTED THE CANDLE AND PEERED IN THE HOT AIR ESCAPING FROM THE CHAMBER CAUSED THE FLAME TO FLICKER BUT PRESENTLY DETAILS OF THE ROOM WITHIN EMERGED FROM THE MIST X CAN YOU SEE ANYTHING Q
23:08:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:08:42 <cpressey> os.removedirs('/home/cpressey/build/lua-5.1.2')
23:08:52 <alise> I think I made ais523 quit.
23:08:54 <cpressey> that would happily remove my home dir if it could
23:09:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
23:09:32 <alise> cpressey: so would rm -r
23:09:54 <cpressey> rm -r /home/cpressey/build/lua-5.1.2 ? no it wouldn't
23:10:11 <alise> why would it remove ~
23:10:22 <cpressey> i'm merely commenting that os.removedirs is kind of silly
23:10:26 <fizzie> os.removedirs() removes any leftover empty directories up to the topmost.
23:10:32 <cpressey> but this is Python so that goes without saying
23:10:52 <fizzie> It *is* a bit of silly, right. It would also remove /home if everything would be empty there.
23:11:16 <fizzie> And it wouldn't be an active mountpoint and so on, but anyway.
23:16:37 <fizzie> cpressey: Actually, it loops in a "while head and tail:", tries to rmdir head, then does "head, tail = path.split(head)"; and path.split splits "/home" into head:"/", tail:"home"; so it'll run rmdir("/") too. That's... not very likely to succeed. But it would be nice if it did.
23:18:20 <cpressey> fizzie: Going by the docs (oh -- now *I'm* the one that's being silly!), that's what I figured.
23:28:12 <alise> 20:45:55 <cpressey> !postmodern_aoler the original false is written in 680x0 asm
23:28:12 <alise> 20:45:56 <EgoBot> TTED KENNEDY OR1GINAL FALSE IS SEMIOTICALLY WR1TTEN 1N TH3 PENETRATED 5PACE OF 680X0 A5M
23:28:12 <alise> 20:46:11 <cpressey> THERE we go. NOW we're cookin' with gas.
23:28:21 <alise> It's just postmodern + aoler filters from the same program.
23:29:50 <cpressey> alise: IT RAWK5 (HERMEN3UTICALLY SPEAK1NG)
23:30:07 <alise> !postmodern_aoler I will hack you.
23:30:30 <alise> !postmodern_aoler I will semiotically postbioticising harfulate your dgfojdfg.
23:30:31 <EgoBot> 1 WILL 5EMIOT1CALLY POSTB1OTICI51NG HARFULAT3 YOU'RE DGFOJDFG.
23:30:41 <Gregor> <fizzie> "Invited Talk: Graphical models in Microsoft's online services: TrueSkill, AdPredictor, and Matchbox; Thore Graepel (Microsoft Research)"; I wonder if it's from the same place Gregor is nowadays. // I isn't nowadays
23:32:39 <cpressey> btw, is yodawg an actual interpreter of some sort
23:34:44 <oerjan> !yodawg ````````````.H.e.l.l.o. .w.o.r.l.dri
23:36:07 <cpressey> Unless someone hid it under "image talk" maybe
23:36:11 <oerjan> yodawg is a meme reference, not the name of the language
23:37:23 <cpressey> oerjan: ... one certainly doesn't preclude the other
23:37:54 <oerjan> indeed. but in this case it is one and not the other.
23:39:49 <cpressey> So, uh. What is the name of this language?
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23:41:02 <cpressey> is it fair to say that yodawg is an unlambda interpreter?
23:41:35 <Slereah> Either that or a Lazy Bird one~
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23:41:55 <cpressey> "no, the unlambda interpreter is named Sir Charles. yodawg is the just the passcode that lets you run it."
23:42:43 <oerjan> i don't particularly recall giving the unlambda interpreter a specific name
23:44:27 <oerjan> i don't particularly recall being drunk when i coded that. also, it's old.
23:45:44 <fizzie> oerjan: Oh, so you were *so* drunk you've lost your memory of it.
23:48:26 <alise> cpressey: it's a self-interpreter
23:48:49 <oerjan> alise: you dirty snitch you
23:49:01 <alise> i felt sorry for the poor fellow
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23:59:20 <cpressey> I should learn to code in unlambda someday
23:59:45 <olsner> you can learn to generate unlambda code