< 1284163207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it would be nice to have a word like < 1284163209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Avoiding the FUCKING CRAZINESS that is EITHER COAST. < 1284163211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not- X" -> "X not" < 1284163212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1284163214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not- empty? < 1284163217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for obvious reasons < 1284163224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The west coast is AWESOMESAUCE < 1284163258 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I disagree strongly < 1284163268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might not be that great at recognizing bad fiction, but this movie's horrible < 1284163276 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Exclude California! < 1284163278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also basic stack words like swap should be something like ~ < 1284163285 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The pacific northwest is where the awesomesauce is! < 1284163286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid cluttering code up < 1284163332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor has stuff like keep < 1284163338 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ somepoppyword ] keep < 1284163346 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bi and tri < 1284163351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I think I agree < 1284163352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: [ x ] keep is just dup x though < 1284163361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it keeps all dropped < 1284163364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284163367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it's a bit more i guess < 1284163375 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it keeps all dropped < 1284163382 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Suck it up if you like, but I left Seattle, and am never, ever going back. < 1284163388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we have a while that pops only the condition and predicate words that don't pop their argument you get stuff like < 1284163390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: loop [read-packet empty? not] [handle-packet] while ; < 1284163391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it = the "awesomesauce") < 1284163393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is lovely < 1284163405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, a hatheist is a concerted attempt to steal a hat, much like a bank heist. < 1284163420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ as swap is definitely nice though < 1284163423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: handle-packet "Received: " ~ cat print ; < 1284163427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat for concatenate, ofc < 1284163449 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Should've gone to Portland then :P (/me will continue to arbitrarily shrink the area considered "awesomesauce" until you have insufficient evidence to refute it :P ) < 1284163468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: ~ ( x y -- y x ) swap ; < 1284163477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i'm talking about language design < 1284163482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying "oh, I can make Lisp do that" < 1284163485 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100422184040.htm < 1284163501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: [hi5] < 1284163517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: connect ... ; < 1284163517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: read-packet 4096 bytes read ; < 1284163517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: handle-packet "Received: " ~ cat print ; < 1284163517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: loop [read-packet empty? not] [handle-packet] while ; < 1284163517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: run connect loop ; < 1284163544 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh please, like such things are unique to Oregon, if you're going to reject anywhere with minor problems, why are you OK with cultural wastelands? :P < 1284163571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, so [...] is syntax there; i don't give a shit) < 1284163583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not like it's stopping you reading word-by-word) < 1284163623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("..." too) < 1284163640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... is syntax? < 1284163645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not just pseudoness? < 1284163657 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the quote marks < 1284163659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1284163711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor: < 1284163719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: until [ [ not ] compose ] dip while ; < 1284163720 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284163721 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You think Chicago is a cultural wasteland? < 1284163723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AliseCat: < 1284163726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: until [: not o] dip while ; < 1284163729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WIN HAHAHA < 1284163736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh, Chicago. Well, OK, that's borderline tolerable. < 1284163739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really need : < 1284163739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: until [[not] o] dip while ; < 1284163740 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just knew "midwest" :P < 1284163788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick, I need a verb that means "to negate a boolean function f, yielding g such that g(x) === not f(x)". < 1284163793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not "negate"; that's too ambiguous. < 1284163812 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, God forbid I was in Minneapolis or Madison or Cleveland or Indianapolis. < 1284163819 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later. < 1284163821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1284163878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe -not is nice < 1284163881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. [empty?] -not < 1284163888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even reminiscent of "Yeah, it's empty. NOT." < 1284163904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284163912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there a name for the relationship between if/unless, while/until, etc.? < 1284163934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless? < 1284163936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1284163943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in the English language. < 1284163947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, they are not. < 1284163954 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284163963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have thought someone enamoured with Factor would have appreciated the readability of code in a relatively natural style. < 1284163998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have yet to get any practice with Factor >.> < 1284164015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's only really readable sometimes < 1284164025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things life if are annoying < 1284164136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ whendoesthishappen ] [ whendoesthisotherthinghappen ] if ! OH!!! < 1284164190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1284164198 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1284164213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what does Factor call w? [x] w -> swap x swap < 1284164237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mixing natural languages with programming ones != natural, but instead ugly and impure < 1284164263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ dip, hold on < 1284164273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not dip < 1284164274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dip is a fucking stupid command < 1284164279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x] dip -> drop x undrop < 1284164280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep? < 1284164285 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1284164286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how it's keep < 1284164286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1284164290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on < 1284164292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x] keep -> dup x afaik < 1284164296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: dip is awesome < 1284164306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesomeness is a retarded concept < 1284164341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it has a combinator like that < 1284164356 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't even get me started on combinators...... < 1284164430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what was dip again? < 1284164440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't read the word until now < 1284164454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: basically you have your stack A B C D < 1284164456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D on top that is < 1284164458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x] dip < 1284164461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x see sthe stack as < 1284164463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A B C < 1284164466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sees < 1284164468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and say replaces C with C' < 1284164470 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1284164470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it ends with < 1284164472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A B C' D < 1284164478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. drop x undrop < 1284164481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in more sane terms < 1284164487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send-to-other-stack x bring-from-other-stack < 1284164488 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDEA FOR MOON SERVER: < 1284164503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a word "with" that I don't understand < 1284164508 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power things with Stirling engines from the cooling! < 1284164535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently [ A ] with B === swap [ swap A ] curry B < 1284164541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very helpful though. < 1284164547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hmm < 1284164555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 { 1 2 3 } [ - ] with map . < 1284164564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit ... strange ... < 1284164570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curry? < 1284164591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm applies multi-arg func to one arg i guess? < 1284164601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1284164601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curry takes an object and a quot and makes a quot(-like) that includes the object < 1284164611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 [ . ] curry ---> [ 5 . ] < 1284164618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. partial application < 1284164684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has to try 2 { 1 2 3 } [ - ] with
< 1284164738 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1284164752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you forgot map < 1284164766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oklopol! clearly you know lots about language < 1284164777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the name for the relationship between if/unless, while/until, and so forth? < 1284164779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That bit's confusing, trying to take it one step at a time < 1284164864 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I suspect those relations are at least partly a construct of CS. < 1284164906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: No... < 1284164908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're clearly opposites. < 1284164940 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1284164997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "opposite" is not very specific. < 1284165061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Instead, figure out a good name for the word that composes not onto a word! < 1284165068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call them inversions, it's a nice-sounding word. < 1284165075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also very overloaded already. < 1284165079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, "[empty?] -not" === "[empty? not]". < 1284165083 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, antonyms, perhaps? < 1284165090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: No, I mean, rename "-not". < 1284165118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ant", short for "antonym"; then no-one can understand it. "[empty?] ant". < 1284165274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps "anti", but ehh. < 1284165307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not: "[empty?] oh-no". < 1284165307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: until [-not] dip while ; < 1284165311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: until [anti] dip while ; < 1284165314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which is better. < 1284165323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: until [oh-no] dip while ; < 1284165342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1284165353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: until [oh-no-you-don't] dip while ; < 1284165366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: unless [not] dip if ; < 1284165366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: until [anti] dip while ; < 1284165372 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Are you saying no just to be negative?" < 1284165372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't like how not and anti are so different-looking. < 1284165462 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinator languages are "lexically rich" < 1284165468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negate is the obvious choice, but... < 1284165470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so LONG! < 1284165476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also < 1284165479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 negate ==> ERROR < 1284165483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit confusing < 1284165491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: in what sense? < 1284165503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nada". < 1284165516 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you have umpteen words to juggle the arguments the way you need < 1284165526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: like Lojban! < 1284165547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ is definitely a nicer name than swap though imo < 1284165549 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Come come elucidate your thoughts. < 1284165558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: handle-packet "Received: " ~ cat print ; < 1284165597 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ← sleep
< 1284165618 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Is that Factor? < 1284165644 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should check it out but I have so many languages of my own to design < 1284165676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: No, it's "alise's cat"! < 1284165683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is UNRELATED TO THE "CAT" CONCATENATIVE LANGUAGE < 1284165716 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg cnfused < 1284165820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: handle-packet "Received: " swap append print ; < 1284165821 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I made a tiny bit of progress on that apply/ylppa language this week, btw. To summarize, I swapped the meaning of * and / because it's so much saner to have x/x=1. Also 1*x=x, x/1=x. But not in general true that (x/y)*y=x, because, weirdly, 1/x=x. < 1284165821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the Factor < 1284165822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1284165839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define 1. < 1284165846 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is the quoted hole. < 1284165857 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1284165865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so e.g. a symbol or what? < 1284165867 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1*x = x because putting anything in the hole is that thing. < 1284165883 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, it's like the identity function. f(x)=x < 1284165952 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1284166005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wat. < 1284166043 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nothing important; it will probably only make sense in context, which I'm trying to write up < 1284166159 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is tantalizing that (x/y)*y=x holds for many cases, so I keep thinking maybe there is a way to add rules to the system so that * is actually associative, and eventually turn it into a group. But any rules that would work seem gnarly and contrived.) < 1284166176 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holes within holes and things < 1284166206 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :named holes (actually i've been there before) < 1284166218 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more groups plz :-p < 1284166221 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ternary operators (don't know how to even begin abstract algebra on those) < 1284166222 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1284166225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slaep -> < 1284166245 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: killjoy! goodnight < 1284166256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't really any algebras with > binary ops afaik < 1284166271 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, didn't think so < 1284166273 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean ones that have been named < 1284166284 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rsrchd < 1284166286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1284166293 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pizza -> < 1284166454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : named holes (actually i've been there before) ;; DOESN'T EVERYONE NAME THEIR HOLES < 1284166543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irritator is a genus of dinosaur :-D < 1284166556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Martill et al. (1996) wrote that the generic name Irritator came "from irritation, the feeling the authors felt (understated here) when discovering that the snout had been artificially elongated."]] < 1284166572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Irritator was first scientifically described in 1996 by paleontologists Martill, Cruikshank, Frey, Small and Clarke.[1] Its only known fossil, an 80 cm skull discovered in eastern Brazil, was badly obscured by plaster which was added by the commercial fossil-collecting fossil-poachers who illegally sold it (the trade of fossils is prohibited by law in Brazil), in hopes of making the fossil look more complete and valuable. For example, "the posterior port < 1284166572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion of the saggital [sic] crest... [was] fabricated by fossil dealers."[1] The buyers were not aware of the modifications to the illegally collected specimen, and it required them a great deal of work to reconstruct the original features — hence the name.]] < 1284166721 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1284166756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: HELP ME DESIGN MY LANGUAGE BY MAKING MY HYPOTHETICAL CODE BETTER < 1284166758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Or perish. < 1284166772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1151189.txt?key=rwbueifvabdyjmxseyiuua < 1284166785 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hyperthetiwhat? < 1284166792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1151189.txt?key=rwbueifvabdyjmxseyiuua < 1284166793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That < 1284166819 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i certainly wouldn't want to perish < 1284166850 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ... OR DIE! < 1284166855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perish ... OR DIE! < 1284166864 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it bad? < 1284166886 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it looks like forth < 1284166892 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly like forth < 1284166898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no it doesn't < 1284166899 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth < 1284166901 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it was Factor, but not for any good reason < 1284166907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth uses [...] for a completely different thing < 1284166912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Joy, Factor etc. use it for the same meaning that I do < 1284166915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no, it's my hypothetical language < 1284166925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite it in whatever you think is a cleaner style and the language design gets changed accordingly < 1284166932 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: isn't [ and ] completely user-defined in forth? < 1284166960 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least dynamic enough that any definition can be implemented by a forth interpreter/system? < 1284166975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i'm referring to what it's defined as by default < 1284166975 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what's your goal for this language? < 1284166980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like overriding :, you'd have to be fucking stupid < 1284166983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's rather vital < 1284166992 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, I have no idea what [ and ] do) < 1284166999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: compile mode/interpret mode switches < 1284167018 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shudders
< 1284167022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: promote the factorisation of code into short, one-line definitions; have functional expressivity; make code read very literately and concisely, without needless fluff < 1284167028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thus the renaming of swap to ~) < 1284167058 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the meaning of ... in connect anyway? < 1284167085 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so '[' makes the code get re-interpreted each time instead of being compiled at the time of definition? < 1284167093 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something? :) < 1284167114 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read-packet needs to take... a stream or something... as an argument < 1284167126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ... is a placeholder < 1284167127 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just re-read that forth implementation that was passed around the other week < 1284167129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously read-packet does < 1284167133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as connect pushes the connection < 1284167145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and read-packet takes it off the top of the stack (not dropping it, of course) < 1284167146 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that was not obvious from the code, you see < 1284167154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it sure is < 1284167159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just not used to concatenative style < 1284167163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way to indicate passing an argument :) < 1284167168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: nothing even remotely like what you said < 1284167170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, read it < 1284167174 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ok, cool < 1284167178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.annexia.org/_file/jonesforth.s.txt < 1284167183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.annexia.org/_file/jonesforth.f.txt < 1284167184 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, some way to indicate that might help "code read very literatelu=y" < 1284167187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you read the second file after the first) < 1284167188 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin' < 1284167198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so basically you dislike concatenative style. ok. that's not very helpful < 1284167205 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/u=// < 1284167208 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have already read both files :) < 1284167217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think reading a packet is a very obvious action to take, the rest is just context < 1284167221 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have no idea what ... returns < 1284167236 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel somewhat unfairly blamed, here < 1284167248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: connect make-socket-and-connect-it ; < 1284167252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... is not actual code < 1284167263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe I'll use it for the body of unimplemented abstract methods or something < 1284167266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's amusing < 1284167346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i /could/ sprinkle stack effect declarations everywhere, but they're so irritating < 1284167353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like my stack effects simple enough that it doesn't matter! < 1284167379 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to "lexically rich". yeah, you might be asking the wrong person < 1284167413 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284167430 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i never did get to the pizza, so re --> < 1284167449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: connect socket "some-server.net" (host) 1234 (port) connect ; < 1284167451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1284167451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1284167457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a less-clashy last word < 1284167496 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284167539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crawl apparently has a ring of Atheism < 1284167615 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have acquired the Ring of Atheism (+1 resistance against religion) < 1284167857 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it also work against things that work like religions but do not have gods? :-> < 1284167910 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find any evidence that I didn't hallucinate it < 1284168048 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhh, music. < 1284168060 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"molto rubato": Meaningless Italian, meaningful musical Italian! < 1284168210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mucho molto, molto rubato < 1284168827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFGrQMD6Uqc < 1284168831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BxFlmb6S6E < 1284168959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo discovers Britain < 1284169381 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ "Received: " ~ cat print ; < 1284169387 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1284169395 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again cpressey < 1284169458 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ "Received: " ~ cat print ] 'handle-packet = < 1284169458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what < 1284169465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that is not easier to read. < 1284169471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is it significantly purer < 1284169476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you rely on 'foo being syntax there, for instance < 1284169481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [...] < 1284169506 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn;t mention purity < 1284169533 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it discards : as syntax < 1284169538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax is user-defined obvs < 1284169591 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't handle [ ] being mode switches, anyway < 1284169639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not in this :P < 1284169641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'foo syntax? < 1284169667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Have you ever made an OISC? < 1284169676 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no < 1284169682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Get crackin' < 1284169688 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: screw you < 1284169692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda the Ultimate One-Instruction-Set Computer < 1284169698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to be done < 1284169705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, noted in log: cpressey + pizza = lowercase. < 1284169706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blog reference? why? < 1284169722 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cnfysed
< 1284169745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a blog reference < 1284169757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blog title is a reference to the "Lambda the Ultimate ..." series of papers detailing Scheme < 1284169766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Lambda Papers < 1284169772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones of that form are < 1284169777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda: The Ultimate Imperative < 1284169779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda: The Ultimate Declarative < 1284169786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Scheme_programming_language#The_Lambda_Papers < 1284169788 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1284169791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1284169792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also < 1284169795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1977: Debunking the 'Expensive Procedure Call' Myth, or, Procedure Call Implementations Considered Harmful, or, Lambda: The Ultimate GOTO < 1284169795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1979: Design of LISP-based Processors, or SCHEME: A Dielectric LISP, or Finite Memories Considered Harmful, or LAMBDA: The Ultimate Opcode < 1284169805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus firmly establishing it as a meme < 1284169818 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i missed it < 1284169822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm a loser < 1284169844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly the lambda instruction composes an existing lambda, the result of calling another existing lambda with a specified value, and one base operation of your choice < 1284169848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then stores it somewhere < 1284170054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1284170062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer to prefix v. postfix is obvious: < 1284170081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends. < 1284170093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if is good as prefix, tests are good as postfix < 1284170112 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :die if not $good; < 1284170138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infix is never good < 1284170148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks
< 1284170248 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is an existing lambda
< 1284170250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :axioms < 1284170259 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :axioms ftw < 1284170262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you know, you've already admitted you have no idea about Factor or whatever < 1284170271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so making sweeping statements is incredibly inadvisable :P < 1284170286 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Python has postfix if now. I don't approve of this < 1284170293 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Py "no tail call optimization" thon < 1284170299 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless Guido has gone back on that < 1284170312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ancient < 1284170316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"x if y else z" < 1284170316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my statement is less sweeping than "Always use postfix!" or "Always use prefix!" < 1284170322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> if y then x else z endif < 1284170334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, but it does state that you have solved the problem and it is obvious < 1284170343 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, 2.x -- not Ancient-ancient < 1284170351 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x being something < 1284170356 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.mumble, I meant < 1284170365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite frankly insulting to very intelligent people in the language scene who have thought about this a lot and do not find it so obvious at all < 1284170381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to make a Multifix esolang
< 1284170385 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's obvious that the answer is not obvious. < 1284170404 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is going all Zen on our sorry asses. < 1284170463 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, topology < 1284170468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no < 1284170486 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no topology, because the mathematician types are asleep now. < 1284170490 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they live in europe. < 1284170492 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1284170505 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a coincidence. < 1284170605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was the way alise described Factor that made me really interested in Factor < 1284170627 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/GRegor-op13-mov2-wipp7.pdf I've gotten too notationally clever, and Lilypond doesn't like me for it. < 1284170824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's meant to < 1284170847 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs and looks up Factor
< 1284170889 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first exposure to Factor was a Factor zealot emailng me out of the blue and telling me I must have seen this language (because I am cpressey) and it's awesome < 1284170909 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I tried to explain that I was more interested in esolangs < 1284170921 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that didn't seem to go through < 1284170973 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... first example code it posted looks absolutely horrible. Reloading to give it a fighting chance < 1284171017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never seen a factor zealot, interesting. < 1284171052 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: As you said once, "forth does seem to attract the crazies"... this was possibly an Advanced Specimen. < 1284171052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there languages that don't have zealots? < 1284171071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1284171074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: INTERCAL. < 1284171083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say Plof, but oops Gregor and pikhq. < 1284171093 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh you don't even know man. < 1284171095 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ILLGOL. I dearly hope. < 1284171095 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW < 1284171101 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Muahahahaha < 1284171149 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm thinking of calling the apply/yppla language "Spade", because it's all about creating holes in things and filling them up again. < 1284171163 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Shovel" sounded a little awkward < 1284171207 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and I was completely wrong: 1/y=1, which is far more reasonable than 1/y=y. < 1284171271 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284171318 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails to be excited by Factor, again
< 1284171319 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, new example any better? < 1284171323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what was the old example? < 1284171346 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a bit, but not much. The better example was gen'ing XML. The "so what" example was sending email. < 1284171384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't they just call Corin Nemec's SG-1 character Corin Nemec? < 1284171407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't even manage to remember his other, normal alien name; Gregor is right again < 1284171417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jonas Quinn < 1284171436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care < 1284171439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corin Nemelex Xobeh < 1284171503 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he's a SCIENTOLOGIST. < 1284171526 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am offended that I cannot write a Haskell interpreter in about 5 pages of Haskell. If not for that, Haskell would excite me. < 1284171562 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many pages of Scheme does it take to make a Scheme interpreter? Not counting eval-like stuff < 1284171586 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am offended that Scheme contains insufficient visual differentiation to prevent my eyes from bleeding. If not for that, Scheme would excite me. Also dynamic-wind set! whew < 1284171600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic-wind set! call-with-current-continuation < 1284171602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you now have a headache < 1284171609 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-yup < 1284171614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How many pages of Scheme does it take to make a Scheme interpreter? Not counting eval-like stuff < 1284171626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do a decent subset in a page or two < 1284171637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utilising eval for library functions like display :P < 1284171644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic-wind? < 1284171662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you DON'T want to know. < 1284171669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! I! Do! < 1284171691 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on the previous two offenses, one might reasonably conclude that a pure Scheme with polymorphic, inferred, algebraicy types would excite me. One might be onto something, if so. < 1284171702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, second. < 1284171708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_sec_6.4 < 1284171711 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I ACTUALLY feel like the current next-gen rewrite of Plof being discussed, btw, is something you'll like. < 1284171719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grep for "(dynamic-wind". < 1284171740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "(call-with-current-continuation", for a more detailed look at how they interact. < 1284171746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I will not help explain; you got yourself into this. < 1284171750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Shoot. < 1284171765 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* You are not expected to understand this. */ < 1284171767 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Nuh uh, it's not ready for public consumption yet, I'm just TANTALIZING YOU X-P < 1284171770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If I make a completely new design that's awesome and unrecognisable but somehow Plof inside will you accep tit? < 1284171799 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I sort of have? Your suggestion for some Forth-related changes, plus a year or whatever of rearranging that and munging it, is fundamental to the new design. < 1284171818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What were my Forth-related suggestions? >__> < 1284171835 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, your original Forth-related suggestion was basically "replace your bytecode with Forth" :P < 1284171876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That was a good suggestion. :P < 1284171880 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it fails at parallelizing and goes slower < 1284171893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey sure is in grumpy old bastard mood < 1284171898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it failed at that anyway < 1284171905 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my interpretation has become "use the Forth-style of defining simple elements ('words' for Forth) that translate concatenatively to machine code" ... or something like that, I guess it's hard to identify what the chain of thought is now :P < 1284171906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even begin to imagine how inefficient Plof is. < 1284171918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Bah, but the compiler architecture is what would hel pyou. < 1284171931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plof.codu.org/wiki/Plof4 HAHA I HAVE STOLEN YOUR IDEA WORDS < 1284171937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND WILL READ THEM UNCONSENSUALLY < 1284171941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's junk. < 1284171952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S STUPID < 1284171958 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've totally changed it again since I wrote that. Well, not totally changed it, but everything below that is different too. < 1284171961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE STUPID AND YOU SHOULD FEEL STUPID < 1284171971 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Fine, I'll PM you to describe the current work-in-progress design :P < 1284171973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO IF STATEMENTS LOOK LIKE IN THIS YEAR? < 1284171979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY KEEP CHANGING AND SUCH < 1284171983 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Same as they have for two years now. < 1284171986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH IS < 1284171992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I HAVEN'T CARED FOR TWO YEARS) < 1284171993 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (condition) (body) < 1284172025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can agree with that
< 1284172036 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: grumpy old DRUNK bastard, you mean! < 1284172040 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, not yet) < 1284172065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: DRUNK ON PIZZA < 1284172106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1284172121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGEO IS OFTEN DRUNK ON PIZZA < 1284172265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds some PSOX-related logs
< 1284172281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, there is a logical train of thought from alise's last statement to that < 1284172421 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh mono. I forgot! haha < 1284172433 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no logial train there, just remembering) < 1284172507 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, http://catseye.tc/lab/madison/doc/madison.html < 1284172535 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my HTMLification of some notes I scrawled down on a strictly-typed term-rewriting language. < 1284172538 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not esoteric. < 1284172547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the contrary :) < 1284172581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION switches his love to Madison
< 1284172584 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even less esoteric than most term-rewriting languages < 1284172594 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, bad craziness < 1284172608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The notation a -> b is read as "a rewrites to b" and means that occurrences of a, when found, are replaced by occurrences of b. Both sides may contain variables; all variables occurring in b must also occur in a." < 1284172611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it covalent! < 1284172614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can use = < 1284172619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and give it timeless semantics < 1284172619 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thanks < 1284172640 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe later < 1284172645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"timeless semantics"? Would Haskell be considered to have timeless semantics? < 1284172653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well i'm not sure < 1284172657 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the objective of this (not stated) is to see if you can do the typing also with the rewrite engine < 1284172659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1284172660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a covalent system it doesn't matter which direction you go in < 1284172675 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog would be closer? < 1284172689 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog you can backwards in < 1284172700 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You nondetermine, but, you can < 1284172729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Prolog even TC? < 1284172746 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1284172759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Both a and b may contain types." < 1284172764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dislike how this isn't fit into the other machinery < 1284172777 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, Prolog is TC. < 1284172791 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think types are terms < 1284172798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, you know, specially decorated ones < 1284172805 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not sure < 1284172809 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would need to build it to know. < 1284172817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1284172821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is *List A a term? < 1284172821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and type variables are like pattern variables) < 1284172822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's A < 1284172831 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A is a (type) variable < 1284172844 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nil => *List A is problematic, I admit < 1284172845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i think you need a which-has-a-type operator < 1284172855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons x:A xs:(*List A) => *List A < 1284172864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way it makes more sense < 1284172869 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Types *should* be inferrable for simple programs, but in general, yes < 1284172869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the thing on the left is the actual fully-specified call < 1284172874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i mean < 1284172875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to declare types < 1284172879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just putting the types in there < 1284172888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way the left hand side is always a valid term for calling just that < 1284172898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because x:A == x but it only works if x is of type A < 1284172898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1284172901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons x:A xs:(*List A) => *List A < 1284172910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is only applicable if you give cons an A and a *List A < 1284172918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you need some sort of rule to exclude everything not explicitly allowed < 1284172921 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're not using x and xs, so why mention them? < 1284172923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. have no default rule < 1284172931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: consistency; right now, your left-hand side terms are nonsensical < 1284172931 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the => already tells you "I only care about types here" < 1284172935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons A *List A isn't a well-typed expression < 1284172941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since A is not of type A, and *List A is not of type *List A < 1284172951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have expressions on the LHS that aren't valid or meaningful at all < 1284172955 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A *is* type A < 1284172962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1284172964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, A is a type < 1284172969 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1284172971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N isn't a natural < 1284172976 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and A in that expression means "the type A" < 1284172978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"*List A" isn't a list of As, it's a type < 1284172984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes. which you can't pass to cons < 1284172988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1284172994 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You're not "passing" anything -- it's a type rule < 1284172998 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> < 1284173000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. which is inconsistent < 1284173001 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not -> < 1284173009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because A => B should mean < 1284173014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the *expression* A types as B" < 1284173026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just as we use variables to denote anything in a rule, we use variables with type tags to denote "anything of this type" < 1284173026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1284173035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons (x:A) (xs:*List A) => *List A < 1284173036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means < 1284173041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that satisfies the pattern on the left < 1284173042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is typed as right < 1284173043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas < 1284173048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons x xs -> ... < 1284173049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means < 1284173051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that satisfies the pattern on the left < 1284173053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is rewritten as right < 1284173055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see the symmetry? < 1284173066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you just introduce a simple rule < 1284173078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x:A) matches a given y iff y matches x and y is of type A < 1284173079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done. < 1284173085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can also do polymorphic things like < 1284173087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id (x:a) => a < 1284173095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming lowercase means a variable, but whatever, you get the idea there < 1284173111 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see any advantage your notation has < 1284173144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: semantics < 1284173146 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x and xs are never used, thus redundant. When *would* you use them? < 1284173153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes the semantics of A=>B closer to the rewriting language < 1284173154 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's glib < 1284173156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could even do something like < 1284173162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons(:foo, :bar) => Int < 1284173164 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like, pretend x and xs are there < 1284173166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying that if you pass cons the symbols foo and bar < 1284173169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's of type Int < 1284173170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you do < 1284173171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo -> bar < 1284173172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say < 1284173176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ever see a foo < 1284173177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite it to bar < 1284173180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo => bar < 1284173180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is saying < 1284173182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ever see a foo < 1284173184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has type bar < 1284173189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the foo on the left should have the full pattern-matching capability < 1284173198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than being restricted to a types-on-left-only non-expression facility < 1284173200 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wanted to do dependent types, maybe < 1284173203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this runs deeper. < 1284173204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no < 1284173206 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ... I certainly don't < 1284173209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: screw you < 1284173211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to do with dependent types at all < 1284173219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't have to justify it to you < 1284173223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm right, after all :) < 1284173227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i misunderstood what you said < 1284173238 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "screw you" was uncalled for. < 1284173242 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I don't agree < 1284173250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been ruder to plenty. < 1284173290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just develop my own language with this :-P < 1284173323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i guess it does easily lead to dependent types but i don't /think/ that's strictly necessary < 1284173351 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't see why else you'd care about the *values* x and xs in a *type* rule < 1284173400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: my version is the more purist, term-rewriting form i guess < 1284173403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas yours is the more practical < 1284173443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: btw, I'm not sure I like the `Foo thing < 1284173448 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps... i really don't know. this design was largely to isolate a space that i was playing with in rho < 1284173455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Foo? < 1284173456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any reason not to just have a "type Foo" declaration to let you say just Foo < 1284173458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1284173459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Foo < 1284173459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1284173463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :injected my own better syntax :-D < 1284173467 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1284173467 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, either would work < 1284173486 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives HackEgo a Scooby snack
< 1284173502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean even Pure has a declaration to declare a nonfix (something that has no rewriting or whatever but is used as a symbol, not a variable) < 1284173505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since e.g. if you had nonfix n < 1284173506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact n = ... < 1284173510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would match literally n < 1284173514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise n would be a variable < 1284173516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is similar < 1284173539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, and with this instead of nonfix you could just do < 1284173542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo : whateverthetype < 1284173544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and provide no rules < 1284173545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er => < 1284173549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep injecting my own syntax < 1284173550 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree there maybe need to be some decls. Also the lack of parens on constructors -- could lead to ambiguity < 1284173579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADTs are nice with this < 1284173584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero => *Nat < 1284173588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :succ *Nat => *Nat < 1284173629 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, between this, and Spade, and Pophery, and an overriding urge to compile C programs for AmigaOS 1.3... well, "work cut out" seems like an understatement. < 1284173633 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm lazy < 1284173644 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh mono < 1284173648 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and easily distracted) < 1284173657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mono is meh < 1284173659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284173697 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mono-2.0-devel? probably < 1284173721 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.NET is to satisfy that "sick" urge, like coding in Falcon would < 1284173722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i think you should maybe make stuff the more boring a(b,c,d,...) < 1284173730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since your types right now are near-incomprehensible < 1284173731 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah, i may succumb < 1284173756 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even(nil) -> true. even(cons(H,T)) -> not(even(T)). < 1284173770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even (cons H T) -> not (even T). ;; doesn't really buy you much < 1284173799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the => rules look quite similar to -> rules < 1284173802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit confusing when reading a function < 1284173824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ofc you do get an x vs x() confusion < 1284173835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I recommend making them identical; i.e. x() is just a silly way to write x.) < 1284173868 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284173870 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: could do like: types true -> Bool; false -> Bool; end types. rules not(true) -> false; not(false) -> true; end rules. < 1284173879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: oh, and if you're totally boring, capitalise the first letter of variables to make it clear which are literal symbols and which are variables < 1284173888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ew @ that < 1284173899 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capital letter rule is already in effect < 1284173907 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a la Prolog < 1284173915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1284173921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't need *List < 1284173922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write list < 1284173923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list(A) < 1284173925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's boring and doesn't scale to other character systems, but hey < 1284173927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unambiguous < 1284173941 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: maybe. < 1284173955 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: probably. < 1284174006 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mono-2.0-devel does not come with ilasm, but mono-1.0-devel does? ripoff! < 1284174050 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been meaning to write a compiler from PL-{GOTO} to .NET for a long time. < 1284174066 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stupidity of the goal apparently does not phase me. < 1284174073 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, *faze < 1284174126 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also: Underload interpreter in C. < 1284174135 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be easy. Not been done. < 1284174140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an anagolf for that < 1284174142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, yes it has been done < 1284174146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I wrote a compiler to C < 1284174148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Scheme < 1284174152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ilasm is an anagram of islam! < 1284174153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you bundled a scheme interpreter and gcc... < 1284174155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anagolf for an underload interpreter? < 1284174160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1284174163 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *gasp* < 1284174171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Underload+interpreter < 1284174185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: < 1284174186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n,A,C,E,s[1<<20],*r;main(c,X){char*p=s,*q=p-~read(0,p,s);for(r=X;c=*p++,A=c!=97,C=c==42,E=c==94,X=c==40,c*n?n+=X-=c==41,*q++=n?c:!++r,1:!A|C|E?q-=~sprintf(E?p=q:(*r=q),"(%s%s"+A,E[r-=C+E],E?p:C?*r:")"):c-33?r[1]=X?++n,q:c=='~'?X=*--r,*r++=r[1],X:c-58?X=c==83,c-60&&c|n&&printf(X?"%s":"\nErr'%c'",X?*r--:n?40:c),X:*r++:--r;);} < 1284174190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1284174202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has error messages < 1284174210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all in 325 dubiously-legal characters < 1284174212 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would kind of prefer a lot a *reasonable* C implementation, but beggars can't be choosers. < 1284174221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you can easily expand that < 1284174226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's not difficult to write one < 1284174256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Name it and I'll write one in a few lines. < 1284174302 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1284174310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name the interpreter. :P < 1284174332 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Un... derload?? < 1284174340 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION CNFSUED
< 1284174390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write it in Factor! < 1284174423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Interpreters need names! < 1284174424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: C. < 1284174439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a golf thing < 1284174447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it isn't. < 1284174452 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OH < 1284174496 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: elephant < 1284174500 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1284174550 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! even under Linux, ilasm takes command line options that are introduced with "/". < 1284174602 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the anagolf version will not compile under DICE C (surprise!) and I totally do not understand how it works (surprise!). < 1284174631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses argv as the stack < 1284174632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1284174646 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DICE C? < 1284174648 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that helps explain some, but how does it concatenate strings? < 1284174655 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprintf < 1284174658 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how < 1284174669 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a compiler for AmigaOS 1.3 < 1284174689 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C compiler, even < 1284174825 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK there's something I don't get about Underload < 1284174837 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait < 1284174886 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it's so very nearly a push-down automaton < 1284174895 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the ()'ing and the eval'ing < 1284175175 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can implement swap in a PDA though. Well you could if both stack elements are bounded. Here, I dunno. < 1284175223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Psht, my OS doesn't like a 2^20 x 2^20 array. < 1284175261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait. < 1284175264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's broken for other reasons! < 1284175294 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scowendrel! < 1284175304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky ulc]$ ./ulc < 1284175304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:aSS):aSS < 1284175304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1284175311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's broken for that reason, but others too! < 1284175338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: There is only one reasonable solution: Use the C stack as a stack! Oh yes! < 1284175379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: My compiler is more impressive, anyway. < 1284175392 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall have to try this < 1284175411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Get a stack pointer, make sure you can make calls with foo(); without that trashing the stack, have fun. < 1284175427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recurse for ^, obviously. If you take the code as the first argument, just set up the stack and then don't push any code. < 1284175439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call and it should take the first thing on the stack -- the first Underload stack element -- as the code. < 1284175444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good f'n luck. < 1284175574 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1284175604 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plays Temple of Apshai instead
< 1284175671 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I am going to implement it. in C. but pedantically. < 1284175784 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's going to have horrible memory performance because it's going to call malloc/free all over < 1284175831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data NestedList t = NLNil < 1284175831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | NLCons (t (Nested t)) (NestedList t) < 1284175831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | NLNest (Nested t) (NestedList t) < 1284175831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Blimped t = X (t (Blimped t)) < 1284175831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Blimp Integer < 1284175831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blimp :: NestedList t -> [Blimped t] < 1284175833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: write it for me. < 1284176020 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats all this about blimps then < 1284176048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the flattening procedure essential to my Underload compiler architecture < 1284176055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it turns a nested structure into a bunch of pointers < 1284176065 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this but in scheme? < 1284176105 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just going to ask, ^ doesn't have to be the last instruction in an Underload program, DOES IT. < 1284176118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1284176119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not < 1284176123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be sub-TC then < 1284176125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1284176143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^ < 1284176153 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it would, but the style in general is not (Muriel replaces the current program witha new program at the equivalent operator) < 1284176168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ is just a function call < 1284176194 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in last place -- could/should be "tail call optimized" -- as if it were a continuation < 1284176216 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284176219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my compiler had tail calls. < 1284176227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey zzo38 < 1284176235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up? < 1284176236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, it was some gnarly scheme) < 1284176238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although only a page or so < 1284176243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm just that awesome < 1284176296 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The ceiling is up, fortunately, it did not fall down yet < 1284176337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:02:23 n,A,C,E,s[1<<20],*r;main(c,X){char*p=s,*q=p-~read(0,p, < 1284176337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s);for(r=X;c=*p++,A=c!=97,C=c==42,E=c==94,X=c==40,c*n?n+=X-=c==41,*q++=n?c:!++r, < 1284176337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:!A|C|E?q-=~sprintf(E?p=q:(*r=q),"(%s%s"+A,E[r-=C+E],E?p:C?*r:")"):c-33?r[1]=X? < 1284176337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++n,q:c=='~'?X=*--r,*r++=r[1],X:c-58?X=c==83,c-60&&c|n&&printf(X?"%s":"\nErr'%c' < 1284176337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :",X?*r--:n?40:c),X:*r++:--r;);} < 1284176337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:02:35 now, /that's/ an impressive Underload interp < 1284176340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Endorsed by the creator! < 1284176346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey is up against some pretty stiff competition. < 1284176387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I even went out of my way to make the generated function identifier numbers nicely ordered. < 1284176390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what are your thoughts on Factor? < 1284176391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284176396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I haven't asked already? < 1284176396 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: isn't that the same one you posted earlier? < 1284176416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes < 1284176418 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Good to hear it. That's what's right and proper, for a ceiling. < 1284176445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION disgusts at the notion of right and proper.
< 1284176453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, I will tear my ceiling down. < 1284176473 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The challenge for me right now is just to get it *working*. < 1284176489 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really... I really don't do the obfsctd thing or the golf thing, on some level. < 1284176496 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't really have much opinion, except for one, which is that it is not a good replacement for Forth. < 1284176511 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ability to enter into it is limited. Sad, but there you have it. < 1284176517 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"enter into it" < 1284176526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: anagolf is a great way to practice and hone programming skills < 1284176544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a "for embedded/limited environment programming" sense, or soe other sense? < 1284176554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:31:14 FUCK YEAH!!! < 1284176554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:31:15 % ./out < 1284176554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:31:15 (:aSS):aSS < 1284176554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:31:21 I COMPILED FUCKING >UNDERLOAD< < 1284176559 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: tl; dr There are certain sets of skills as a programmer, and I know I am excellent in some, but this isn't one. < 1284176561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- 2008-01-07 < 1284176569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's fun though. < 1284176570 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey < 1284176583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:26:49 http://rafb.net/p/XEGp7F68.html < 1284176585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh you're joking. < 1284176608 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I could probably use getting back into practice, yes. < 1284176622 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284176627 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to explain what he meant by "enter into it" but it's just too much right now
< 1284176649 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm joking? < 1284176660 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are you talking to your past-self-ehird? < 1284176665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter < 1284176672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafb.net's pastebin got taken down < 1284176676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it never persisted things more than like 24 hours < 1284176684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to find my original compiler < 1284176684 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:( < 1284176685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of glory < 1284176688 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not approve
< 1284176701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./08.01.08:10:53:11 I saw you were discussing Underload from the logs. How could I not join? < 1284176741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, a pastebin.ca version of ... not my interpreter < 1284176744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1284176745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my compiler < 1284176925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mercy me. python has destroyed my ability to ACTUALLY code. < 1284176934 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no -- it's not THAT bad < 1284176938 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme a minute < 1284176959 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it IS weird. I pass this on as a cautionary tale!) < 1284177154 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost done! < 1284177176 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: (I'm writing an Underload interpreter in C -- one that I can *read*) < 1284177185 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and can compile under AmigaOS 1.3) < 1284177194 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(THAT PART IS VERY IMPORTANT) < 1284177219 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: (Does it work on other computers as well?) < 1284177231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes) < 1284177241 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hopefully. going to try it with gcc and pcc under Ubuntu < 1284177300 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, the source code, through a mystic cosmic accident, is called 'stringie.c', and I don't like that as the name of the interpreter. I'm going to rename it 'elephant' because... alise called hers 'ulc' even though I said 'elephant < 1284177342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stringie is a great name keep it < 1284177358 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1284177367 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be contractually obliged to, now < 1284177380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :string Internet Explorer? < 1284177411 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now... to appease the volcano-gods of gcc error messages < 1284177415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./08.01.14:14:20:06 * ehird` is rewriting his underload compiler in Haskell < 1284177420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT BEFORE YOU LINK IT ON THE PASTEBIN YOU DON'T < 1284177424 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spidermonkey Tracemonkey Internet Netscape Gecko Internet Explorer? < 1284177441 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Needs an R. < 1284177443 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realplayer! < 1284177453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./08.01.15:11:25:26 ais523: by the way, my underload to C compiler is broken. i've started a rewrite, but eh < 1284177456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DID YOU BREAK IT < 1284177457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY < 1284177464 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, missed the 'R', durp :P < 1284177466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./08.01.16:09:06:05 who wants to try out the current version of the underload compiler < 1284177468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1284177469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./08.01.16:09:07:01 svn co svn://elliotthird.org/underload < 1284177471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you! < 1284177485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you don't have any of your old files? < 1284177497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, on another machine. Somewhere in the eternal depths of its fiery harddrives. < 1284177506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 3:58 am. This is not the time to get that machine out. < 1284177507 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows what that's like
< 1284177526 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sleepninighty < 1284177535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, shut the hell up. < 1284177540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Friday/Saturday. < 1284177605 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, so when you execute ^, you do not start with a fresh stack? OK < 1284177653 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: elliotthird.org isnt a valid website. :| < 1284177657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ^ is "function call", or "replace this ^ with the contents of the item on the top of the stack and keep going" < 1284177659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: but it was < 1284177662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not now < 1284177664 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for shame < 1284177729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:49:56 Woot! < 1284177729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:49:59 The underload->C compiler works. < 1284177729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:50:07 It does tail-call optimization and all that jazz. < 1284177729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:50:13 svn co svn://elliotthird.org/underload < 1284177731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU SO MUCH < 1284177750 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Underlad -- "There is currently no text in this page, you can search for this page title in other pages or edit this page." < 1284177753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20070922130719/http://elliotthird.org/ useless? < 1284177754 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlad! < 1284177761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless. < 1284177763 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlad to the rescue! < 1284177765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: for an svn server, yes < 1284177773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for everything else < 1284177787 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you're underlad only if he's on top < 1284177788 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8D < 1284177807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once upon a time that domain got to the top of digg < 1284177816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nick underlady < 1284177816 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: wow, what < 1284177817 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1284177818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a move that would probably put Sgeo in a blissful, heroin-esque state for several days < 1284177824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? < 1284177828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ALL THE ATTENTION < 1284177834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, lol < 1284177835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: well, technically the domain was w.elliotthird.org < 1284177836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1284177837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes, it would < 1284177842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :envision a site where there is a big number < 1284177843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a button < 1284177850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you press this button the number goes up for everyone, in realtime < 1284177854 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: envisioning < 1284177855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now imagine you have a name and password < 1284177859 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1284177860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it keeps track of how many times you click it < 1284177863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a high score of 30 or so < 1284177867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the people who have clicked most < 1284177875 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1284177881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: now imagine this gets popular in a social circle, and then some of them post it on places < 1284177888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine it gets hundreds of diggs < 1284177890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine it gets on /b/ < 1284177894 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1284177899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine digg and /b/ both get one account each and hammer away at it < 1284177906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine that somehow oklopol is still near the top < 1284177906 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1284177911 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1284177911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now imagine it gets to #1 on digg < 1284177912 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1284177914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1284177914 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284177915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THEN < 1284177915 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse he would be < 1284177917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wake up one day < 1284177921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ssh to my server < 1284177924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's all broken < 1284177925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1284177931 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, oklopol and all < 1284177932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mysql logs filled up the whole filesystem < 1284177933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like 4 gigabytes < 1284177936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1284177940 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1284177950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://digg.com/news/gaming/The_Most_Pointless_Website_Ever < 1284177958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists as 0 diggs and 0 comments, heh, they sure broke digg < 1284177964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uhh < 1284177967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the comments are gone < 1284177969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, most of them < 1284177984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: oh yeah and i put a little realtime-shoutbox-chat thing on it just to see what would happen < 1284177989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is a lot of niggers and faggots happened < 1284177995 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse < 1284178017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bugmenot.com/view/w.elliotthird.org < 1284178020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know you're famous when... < 1284178030 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha < 1284178034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders stealing alise's idea
< 1284178046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's dead now. complete luck that it got popular. < 1284178055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have serious attention issues. < 1284178059 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you got a picture of what this looked like < 1284178061 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1284178062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: ...then everyone forgot about me and i earned not a penny from the whole endeavour < 1284178064 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds familiar < 1284178067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: not personally but i could look for one < 1284178072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just all set in verdana, very little decoration < 1284178076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a few-file PHP hackup < 1284178080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updating it was... "fun" < 1284178081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION either wouldn't actually do it, or would make a huge disclaimer saying that it wasn't originally my idea
< 1284178086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it was getting hit hundreds of times a second < 1284178086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1284178089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single person connected < 1284178093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made at least 3 or so ajax requests < 1284178094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every 500ms < 1284178100 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1284178102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slicehost must have loooved that < 1284178157 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1284178174 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes on cpressey's memory
< 1284178214 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you have archives of the source? < 1284178222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yes ... on some machine < 1284178227 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1284178230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it's php, so frankly a bit embarassing < 1284178238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i even used someone else's ajax library, although i don't recall < 1284178243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rewriting in Factor would be an interesting project! < 1284178251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: this was circa 2008 btw < 1284178258 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1284178262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, finding hosting for Factor stuff sounds like a pita < 1284178267 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just when we were getting to know each other :D < 1284178274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was sajax i think < 1284178281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1284178288 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man wait < 1284178290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either sajax or i did it myself < 1284178294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it went through like 3 versions < 1284178296 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how old are you now < 1284178297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third one being the one that got popular < 1284178298 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause < 1284178302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: 15 as of august 22 < 1284178307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've known each other like, what, 3 years < 1284178309 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1284178316 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy 15th! < 1284178316 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea? /b/?? /cpressey CFNUSDE < 1284178326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I presume you know what /b/ is... < 1284178332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yeah well i've been in and out of contact with someone on the interwebnets since i was 8 < 1284178332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ha < 1284178334 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: when are you legal in the uk? 8D < 1284178336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ColdFusion porn? < 1284178339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs in horror
< 1284178340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, in human terms, 2004) < 1284178343 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Why do you presume that? < 1284178354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Is the rock you live under comfortable? < 1284178369 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: YES! Hello? < 1284178405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Uh, when I turn 16. < 1284178407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ... in a year. < 1284178421 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's me. Here's the so-called "real world", made up of slavering morons. Here's the distance between the two. Comfortable! < 1284178425 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM BUYIN MY TICKET <3 <3 <3 < 1284178451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: But then I won't get £50 from oklopol... < 1284178464 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now to febug a duckin' semegnation flaut < 1284178471 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dont worry, i'll take car of him for you ;o ;o < 1284178483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assassination. Well, interesting, if a little extreme. < 1284178492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're planning to steal his automotive vehicle. < 1284178500 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, not assassination < 1284178505 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but certainly a little death < 1284178508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ass-to-assination < 1284178512 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1284178524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./08.01.16:10:50:13 svn co svn://elliotthird.org/underload < 1284178526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU PAST SELF < 1284178528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE IN A FIRE < 1284178551 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wha < 1284178561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which model of time-travel do you want me to use to help fulfill this desire? < 1284178562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's no longer there < 1284178565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i want my fucking code < 1284178573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the hilarious one < 1284178574 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: o wut < 1284178580 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why isnt it there anymore < 1284178591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: because i wiped the vps like 29385473495435 times and the domain expired and-- < 1284178595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--it's ancient code. < 1284178598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, could you be clearer? The one where killing you in the past makes you cease to exist in the present? < 1284178599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1284178599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008, even! < 1284178599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1284178609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: death of the main character isn't good comedy! < 1284178628 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, then one where you turn out to not be Elliott Hird? < 1284178636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dun dun DUN < 1284178646 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1284178710 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an interdimensional electromagnetic life form "borrowing" Elliott Hird's body. < 1284178735 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1284178737 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1284178741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOON I WILL SHED THIS BODY WITH RITUALISED SUICIDE < 1284178799 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1284178806 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ship me the corpse? < 1284178868 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna find out just how stiff it is? < 1284178881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: UNWANTED INTERPRETATION DETECTED. PLEASE DISAMBIGUATE. < 1284178885 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bodies dont stay stiff after rigor passes, you realize < 1284178906 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you best be quick < 1284178976 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently I realized something I have forgotten about D&D game, my character can make spider web maximum 60 sq ft (approximately the size of the opening near the room where I play D&D) < 1284179018 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha i had a function char *pop(void) and it wasn't returning nothing thanks gcc for pointing that out < 1284179042 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wondering if you have heard of the new virtual machine that Nintendo attempt to invent? < 1284179052 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ... you play D&D in a big room! I only remember playing it in basements and cramped apartments < 1284179053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it has at least three address spaces? < 1284179081 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, everyone and their aunt has their own virtual machine these days < 1284179097 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes I do, but the table is slightly small.... but it is good enough, we have only two player and one DM < 1284179154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I guess I need to make a VM too < 1284179160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Factor! < 1284179258 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shakes head
< 1284179268 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you programmed much in Forth? < 1284179315 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Maentwrog? < 1284179349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, almost nothing! < 1284179356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to learn < 1284179386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how easy it would be to take a given Forth and turn it into Factor
< 1284179430 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it... no. < 1284179439 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're close, but. < 1284179445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not < 1284179476 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One groks functions. The other only sort of doesn't. < 1284179509 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how easy it would be to take a given C and turn it into Java < 1284179518 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then, that doesn't capture it < 1284179540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bubut.. the Forth aparser would onyl need to be slightly modified < 1284179542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parser < 1284179562 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that could be done in Forth for some Forths, iiuc < 1284179585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe slightly's the wrong word < 1284179599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what do you mean by "only sort of doesn't", and which language? < 1284179721 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye@catseye-laptop:/cygdrive/e/checkout/lab/elephant$ ./stringie '(:aSS):aSS' < 1284179724 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:aSS):aSScatseye@catseye-laptop:/cygdrive/e/checkout/lab/elephant$ < 1284179729 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1284179735 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the canonical ass-quine works < 1284179781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I mean that. Forth doesn't really have the notion of a function. It does, sort of, kind of, but no. Whereas Factor is (I hope) built around the notion of a function. < 1284179790 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the details, I admit. < 1284179805 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But concatenative programming is not the same thing as... stack-based programming. < 1284179828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what's the difference? < 1284179838 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you know Haskell? < 1284179845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1284179850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To some extent < 1284179879 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Haskell has combinators, right? "point-free programming". < 1284179889 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor's words aren't really pure. There is such a thing as modifiable state, global variables, and ... oh, sorry < 1284179904 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor is kind of the same approach. < 1284179914 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw, I'm in no state to explain this. Sorry. < 1284179976 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.latrobe.edu.au/philosophy/phimvt/joy/j02maf.html < 1284179983 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that uses too many fancy words < 1284180061 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm also assuming Factor is actually following concatenative principles, and not just fudging along somehow) < 1284180123 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I find that page fully readable so far < 1284180137 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One really cheap way to say it is: Factor (or at least Joy) has theoretical foundations. Forth has none -- only practical foundations. The gap between the two is larger than it looks, because of this. < 1284180169 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I thought the stuff about monoids was a bit gratuitous, but what do I know < 1284180179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get up to that part yet < 1284180226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stops reading
< 1284180316 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./stringie '(12)S(*a(~:)~*^~):((1)S)~*~((2)S:*)~*:(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^' ... 1221121221221121122121121221121121221221121221Aborted < 1284180328 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I have written a functioning Underload interpreter < 1284180360 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can generate, let's see, about 40 whole terms in the Kolakoski sequence, before its head explodes < 1284180363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wait! < 1284180372 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did have an idea for how to make it tail recursive < 1284180612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Meanwhile, I have written the blimper and the parser. < 1284180618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still long for my original horrible thing. < 1284180643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> let Just x = parse "(:aSS):aSS" < 1284180643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> x < 1284180643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nest (Cons Duplicate (Cons Enclose (Cons Output (Cons Output Nil)))) (Cons Duplicate (Cons Enclose (Cons Output (Cons Output Nil)))) < 1284180643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> blimp x < 1284180643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Ref 1,Val Duplicate,Val Enclose,Val Output,Val Output],[Val Duplicate,Val Enclose,Val Output,Val Output]] < 1284180661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> parse "(()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^" < 1284180661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing < 1284180662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut < 1284180702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1284180723 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marf < 1284180769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Data.Maybe> blimp . fromJust . parse $ "(()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)):^" < 1284180769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Ref 1,Ref 3,Val Duplicate,Val Call],[Ref 2,Ref 2],[],[Val Concatenate],[Val Swap,Val Duplicate,Val Call,Val Duplicate,Val Output,Val Concatenate,Val Enclose,Val Swap,Val Call,Val Enclose,Val Swap,Val Discard,Val Swap,Val Concatenate,Val Swap,Val Duplicate,Ref 4],[]] < 1284180798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./08.01.23:10:06:31 darcs get http://elliotthird.org/underload/ < 1284180799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're kidding me. < 1284180856 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The next time you talk about Factor in any channel except #concatenative, I am going to punch you in the colon with my dick < 1284180889 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ./stringie '(:^):^' is continuing to run and according to top the memory usage isn't going above 1756 so I think it's properly tail-recursive < 1284180896 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284180912 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still can only do about 40 digits of kola, tho < 1284180915 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284180992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how you punch someone in the colon with a dick, exactly
< 1284181186 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, I can't even reach that channel < 1284181352 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... < 1284181412 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There's someone else with your exact nick in it, then. I don't know how that's possible. < 1284181424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's #concatenative < 1284181473 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you going all Zen on my sorry ass again??? < 1284181493 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in #concatenative, I'm in #concatenative! OM < 1284181519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now in #concatenative!
< 1284181533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm driving cpressey crazu < 1284181536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy even < 1284181594 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what's up with your chicken shit bull shit too < 1284181617 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, you're forcing me to read carefully despite the wine goggles. That's almost as bad. < 1284181622 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :con cat e nat ive < 1284181631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I suppose it's a hybrid of both brands of shit. < 1284181633 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /join #concatnative < 1284181646 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /join #concatentive < 1284181675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many characters are in what Quadrescence wants me to join, and how many characters in the actual channel? < 1284181681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why might I be unable to reach it? < 1284181714 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 13. 13. < 1284181749 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you think Quadrescence's comma *following* #concatenative is supposed to be part of the channel name, < 1284181764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1284181767 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is just being a dumbfuck < 1284181784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat certainly thinks it is < 1284181798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat is garbage, it would seem. < 1284181834 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No offense, but... "X" in front anything does not exactly scream "quality implementation". < 1284181838 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*front of < 1284181855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X itself being a case in point? < 1284181864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence sure is in a fucking bad mood. < 1284181867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's not in FRONT of anything there, but, sort of < 1284181875 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No I'm not, but Sgeo is annoying < 1284181875 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xterm is a better example < 1284181878 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xclock < 1284181880 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xman < 1284181892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume those are older than GTK+ and Qt < 1284181895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: presumably me too. < 1284181898 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy cow yes. < 1284181905 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no just teasin bro < 1284181914 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: he joined #TUNES and said to do it in Factor which is the worst idea I've ever heard < 1284181920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying bro --> colon punch < 1284181922 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what WHAT? < 1284181935 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait WAIT what? < 1284181939 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i colon punched sgeo < 1284182009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, the only person active at that time was Phantom_Hoover < 1284182022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I sort of treated that channel as long dead, anyway < 1284182027 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1284182046 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: go learn C < 1284182069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHat more of C do you want me to learn? < 1284182077 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of it < 1284182083 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you don't know any < 1284182111 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1284182117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Bleh, forgot the header exactly < 1284182119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://Bleh, forgot the header exactly < 1284182130 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry asshole // is not standard C89 < 1284182133 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again < 1284182146 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1151532 < 1284182152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Bleh, C commentness */ < 1284182161 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() { < 1284182166 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 'stringie the underload interpreter', in case anyone cares < 1284182190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int showoff = 5; // Variables must come before everything else in a function < 1284182195 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the only underload interpreters known to be written while under the influence! < 1284182203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: apart from all of them < 1284182212 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: good work < 1284182229 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thanks for telling me two lines which are parsable in about 100 languages < 1284182234 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("%d\n", showoff); < 1284182239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 0; < 1284182241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1284182247 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :showoff isn't defined you lose < 1284182260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blinks
< 1284182293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see no error with his code apart from the //, which is really arguable as tons of C89 compilers do it, especially older ones, and C99 added it < 1284182297 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the line with alleged "showoff" contains an invalid token) < 1284182307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int showoff; < 1284182309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :showoff = 5; < 1284182314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy? < 1284182317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: so basically this has turned into < 1284182337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quadrescence hates C99, and if you, say, only know C99 and not C89, he doesn't even want to acknowledge your existence" < 1284182338 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, the // < 1284182343 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: in this case I can name the specific wine < 1284182345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, Sgeo's code is perfectly valid C99. < 1284182349 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm glad you have demonstrated the ability to write a C program that is taught in the first hour of a class < 1284182359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: "This wine is called LSD!" < 1284182367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want me to do pointer stuff? < 1284182368 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHA no < 1284182371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: oh right because you can write complex C programs over IRC < 1284182373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will on command < 1284182379 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: sure why not < 1284182382 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is ridiculously simple but everyone thinks is confusing? < 1284182389 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming while actually on LSD would... oh god < 1284182397 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe not make any errors next time around < 1284182437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: new life goal recorded. < 1284182442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: he made no errors. < 1284182447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: the only errors he made derive from your zealotry. < 1284182466 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well standards are pretty tight on those things < 1284182476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: C99 has //. < 1284182485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said "learn C", not "learn C89 then forget C99" < 1284182486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I did try to emphasize that I was being strict :/ < 1284182496 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no shit sherlock < 1284182520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: yet your only complaints were nitpicks about using //. < 1284182522 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i said "c89" and he continued to make the error < 1284182533 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: there's not much to fuck up on a program like that < 1284182540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: presumably he didn't think you'd be anal enough. < 1284182547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot :/ < 1284182548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, just shut the fuck up; this is worse than Factor talk. < 1284182549 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not not being anal < 1284182558 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just following the standard < 1284182562 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you're the reason I'm obsessed with Factor < 1284182579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and the reason AnMaster is here too. < 1284182583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all have mistakes that we have to live with < 1284182658 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster rocks my socks off < 1284182681 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh and int main() { is not legit < 1284182682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only hope you're layering on the sarcasm < 1284182683 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin < 1284182684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, now I'm curious about that story < 1284182686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is, Quadrescence < 1284182689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, the arguments? < 1284182690 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't < 1284182692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void) is only required in a declaration < 1284182697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Oh, right < 1284182700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The (void) junk < 1284182703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is irrelevant her < 1284182704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1284182707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it isn't a declaration < 1284182708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence is wrong < 1284182725 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(int argc, char **argv) { ... } < 1284182731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: is but one valid signature < 1284182731 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burnt into my brain like a mantra < 1284182741 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *argv[] is what some prefer < 1284182743 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: good man < 1284182746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also have int main(void). which is the same type as that produced by saying "int main() { ..." < 1284182749 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey is also a cool dood < 1284182750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in a declaration it would have to be (Void). < 1284182754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*void < 1284182762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: are you going to accept the correction or just ignore it? < 1284182767 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and void main() sometimes works, although compilers vary in the hard time they'll give ya < 1284182800 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main() has unspecified arguments, the standard recommends using int main(void) or int main(int argc, char* argv[]) < 1284182808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: no < 1284182809 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always < 1284182812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main() has unspecified arguments IN A DECLARATION < 1284182834 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love C < 1284182843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for someone being anal about the standard it is quite surprising that you do not know this. < 1284182849 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: btw aren't you 14 or something < 1284182861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIFTEEN NOW < 1284182874 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: answering yer questions for ya < 1284182880 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx cpressey < 1284182880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: THANKS PAL < 1284182888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- the only possible followup to that is either going to be disregarding something I say because of my answer, or something utterly irrelevant. < 1284182893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i won't answer. although cpressey already has. < 1284182908 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't a followup as indicated by "btw" < 1284182911 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"by the way" < 1284182920 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"let's fork the convo temporarily" < 1284182955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to what end? my age isn't a terribly exciting subject, and i'm very, very tired. < 1284182962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should sleep. < 1284182968 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you're 15, kids are usually tired early < 1284182982 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: -_- < 1284183002 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I genuinely think AnMaster is badass like cpressey is < 1284183005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 5:29 am < 1284183006 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sarcastic about that < 1284183008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel like an adult when I'm in here :/ < 1284183011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been awake since 8:30 or so < 1284183013 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: sounds early to me < 1284183014 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm badass now? < 1284183021 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yeah, your C was top notch < 1284183022 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p54972DCA.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284183028 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1284183034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence rates badassery on how well someone can adhere to C89. < 1284183034 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which C was this, then? < 1284183042 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that one time < 1284183053 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I didn't rate AnMaster that way < 1284183061 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is just cool all by himself < 1284183066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: so basically i've been awake 21 hours. i've had a rather busy day. < 1284183070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i haven't eaten in a while < 1284183076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't exactly call that early < 1284183084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who thinks AnMaster is badass is just retarded. < 1284183086 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh so you're being a dumbass (another kid quality) by malnourishing yourself, kool < 1284183097 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man < 1284183112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shut up, it's been less than a handful of hours < 1284183124 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1284183127 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: for whom the bell tolls? < 1284183130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: in future, don't answer my questions for me. and i won't answer yours. kthx < 1284183135 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't turn into me < 1284183139 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: good author nice one < 1284183143 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you're a cool dood too < 1284183144 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: will do < 1284183150 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: did you use freebasic at any point? < 1284183170 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: take a look to the sky, just before your eyes, is the last tiny will < 1284183176 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: about 2 weeks ago you said you were 13 or something so I knew the vicinity of your age < 1284183190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as much as I'm enjoying the Quadrescence-talks-to-kiddies-about-how-kiddieful-they-are channel, I think I'll tune out. < 1284183204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then go to bed. < 1284183212 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: am i a badass < 1284183215 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'd like to remind you that you do nothing important, and your "busy day" is really just a "busywork" day < 1284183224 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: am i a badass < 1284183229 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: damn straight you are < 1284183234 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck YEA < 1284183236 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: so, do you enjoy being a jerk, or is it something you can't help? < 1284183246 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does metal hand pose
< 1284183257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I did an infinitesimal amount of work that goes an infinitesimal amount further to obtaining the most basic level of qualification offered in the country as part of standardised schooling. < 1284183260 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think some features in Enhanced CWEB is a closest way to make 'pataprogramming in C? < 1284183262 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear Quadrescence < 1284183267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then leads to another qualification which leads to university which leads to academia. < 1284183271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The work itself, busy, yes. < 1284183274 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sorry but you can't measure an infinitesimal amount of something in this day < 1284183277 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no you didn't < 1284183281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not busywork, as it had an end, however small. < 1284183298 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: shh < 1284183342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: To measure infinitesimal amounts of things, you need infinitesimal numbers that are measurable < 1284183347 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's ok baby, you've been very brave today < 1284183351 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives alise a hug
< 1284183358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody has ever used the word "infinitesimal" in anything other than a hyperliteral sense! < 1284183365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so ~witty~ for pointing it out < 1284183384 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Are you sure? OK.....,,,, < 1284183391 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dx is infinitesimal < 1284183400 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM THE FIRST PERSON TO USE THAT LITERALLY. < 1284183404 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: nice cheater99 knows more math than alise < 1284183411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sarcasm. < 1284183414 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: no, shh < 1284183420 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: stop being silly. < 1284183429 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not silly it's tru < 1284183432 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: of course i do, but that's not the point < 1284183439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: i assume you're operating on the assumption that this is going to irritate or otherwise annoy me eventually < 1284183442 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, alise's tired, and wants a foot rub < 1284183448 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I don't use "dx" as infinitesimal, but instead meaning how "x" changes. (It still works out, in the end, though.) < 1284183468 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're thinking of \Deltax < 1284183485 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what did you say i didn't understand < 1284183498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION differentiates Quadrescence
< 1284183506 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you just got me back < 1284183511 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so how did this thing start < 1284183514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: the only reason you're bugging me is to make me irritated. < 1284183517 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously quad is a bit pissy < 1284183519 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're pissy < 1284183522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not pissy < 1284183523 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you kids need to chillax < 1284183524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tired < 1284183528 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiredpissy < 1284183528 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh no, I don't want to get you irritated at all! < 1284183534 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want you to get your act together < 1284183541 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with sgeo < 1284183544 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is quaddie here just to piss you off < 1284183545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: not pissy at all. < 1284183549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My "act"? < 1284183555 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey has his act together most surely < 1284183555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: well, he started talking to piss Sgeo off < 1284183557 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you two, you need to become upstanding citizens like Quadrescence here. < 1284183557 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does anmaster < 1284183560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then switched to me when Sgeo stopped responding < 1284183562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so roughly that. < 1284183564 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Delta x is the change in "x", what I mean by "how x changes" is something else < 1284183575 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so why r u responding < 1284183575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My act together in what sense? < 1284183577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess all Quadrescence really wants is to be a father figure. < 1284183582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he could try reproducing. < 1284183588 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: just start talking about something he won't understand anyways < 1284183588 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i was earlier < 1284183595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i'm going to sleep in a few seconds, so might as well < 1284183597 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: like cayley numbers < 1284183602 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dick smells like the wetness of a woman right now < 1284183607 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's TMI < 1284183627 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you win a big spider, yet? On the other side, did you win $4594.492 yet? < 1284183631 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that you have a dick is truly surprising < 1284183644 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i was the only Man on the internet < 1284183645 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: octonion algebra is easy < 1284183649 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on the other other side, did you win lose yet? < 1284183653 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: google is slow today < 1284183665 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i'm writing a book with a large section on algebra < 1284183681 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which trivializes octonions from such a standpoint < 1284183691 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you publish it with 'octonion', i'll request a copy and ritually burn it < 1284183703 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cayley octave < 1284183714 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :octonion is just silly < 1284183715 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't talk about octonions explicitly < 1284183741 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nighty night little moonray < 1284183745 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tucks alise in
< 1284183758 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sings alise a bedtime song
< 1284183759 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: What is this book, please? < 1284183778 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can have a pdf of what it is right now if you want < 1284183786 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION leaves to his own room.
< 1284183812 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: it's 'octave' though. < 1284183815 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I don't need a PDF right now, but I would like to know what it is about in general and what title, and so on. < 1284183823 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an octonion is a salad out of onions and octopuses. < 1284183855 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "Computer Algebra and Algebraic Programming" < 1284183888 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it is about the theory and implementation of computer algebraic algorithms and computer algebra systems with an emphasis on a paradigm I at least call "algebraic programming" < 1284183891 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't believe what Vorpal said about j not being well defined for negative numbers < 1284183896 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is < 1284183903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i think it might depend on the semantics of k < 1284183910 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right,k < 1284183912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1284183919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you put a j on a negative number after a k < 1284183924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the effect of the control flow there? < 1284183929 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could hit the k again < 1284183938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1284183942 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then wtf < 1284183944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since k says to repeat n times, it'd stack up < 1284183961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1284184011 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.archive.org/details/Torley_Wong_-_The_Final_Selection < 1284184033 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Maybe you can write a program to go with it, in Enhanced CWEB, and include the program in the appendix (it is possible to change the starting page number, if necessary) < 1284184048 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What software (and other things) are you using to write a book? < 1284184050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes "Lovers' Dance"
< 1284184051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh yes, the second life guy who went deaf < 1284184053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i'm mistaken < 1284184056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes < 1284184063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my memory disturbs even me < 1284184067 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: LaTeX, PGF/TikZ for diagrams < 1284184075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://music.torley.com/ ;; what how is he releasing new things < 1284184081 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp and C for actual implementation languages < 1284184096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Lisp? < 1284184114 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: AUTOLISP < 1284184114 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if you want to write C program, try Enhanced CWEB? It is not designed for LaTeX, but it should be possible to make combine book < 1284184117 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LaTeX as an actual implementation language. It's the only way < 1284184127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: either you're joking or just stupid < 1284184143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? Why is Autolisp bad? < 1284184145 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: true < 1284184148 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ??? < 1284184189 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know about Enhanced CWEB? < 1284184199 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If it can be done, someone here needs to do it! < 1284184205 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, Enhanced CWEB produces pure TeX iirc, and that is easy to incorporate < 1284184208 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Only the examples you've posted < 1284184226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I remember reading that Torley went undeaf, but I may have hallucinated that < 1284184249 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beethoven was deaf (from what I understand) when he wrote his very late stuff < 1284184255 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was also a genius, though < 1284184264 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those torley wong tracks are so bad < 1284184268 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet his ears went long before he noticed < 1284184272 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: If what can be done, someone here needs to do what? < 1284184300 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Write real, computational programs in LaTeX. Maybe by feeding the output of LaTeX back into LaTeX. < 1284184305 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Enhanced CWEB produces files for use with Plain TeX. However you can change the starting page number and put them together. < 1284184315 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, it'd be easy < 1284184348 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I have written real computational programs in Plain TeX, but it seems LaTeX is too specialized for other kind of things, like typing certain kind of documents... still, I prefer Plain TeX < 1284184359 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: so are all algebraic programming experts pussy magnets, or is it just you? < 1284184364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what's wrong with Autolisp? < 1284184370 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: And if you need help with Enhanced CWEB, you can ask me, I might be able to help < 1284184388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, alise, I might need your help with parts again < 1284184389 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's pretty coo. < 1284184390 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I don't really know; I am quite a magnet < 1284184391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cool. < 1284184407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be able to get my dad to agree to get parts within 6 weeks of me deciding what the parts should be < 1284184414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION happies
< 1284184456 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parts? < 1284184458 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? < 1284184460 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what r u building? < 1284184461 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://i.imgur.com/J8yh3.jpg < 1284184462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaming computer < 1284184467 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1284184470 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cud help u < 1284184474 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: surely your raw, irresistable animal sexuality can be attributed to *something*, and if not algebraic programming, then what? < 1284184481 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i m good with computerz < 1284184502 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: to the instinctive nature of humans to reproduce? < 1284184509 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i wouldn't know, it seems like Quadrescence only has that one thing. < 1284184528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how cpressey totally asked for a picture. < 1284184539 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1284184544 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: naw, every living creature has that. but you, you're special. < 1284184561 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i am so totally not looking at any pictures wrt this k < 1284184572 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that photo is of me < 1284184576 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfw < 1284184588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, in fact, sfw < 1284184589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a photo of a mountain of raging bees < 1284184594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :descending on a pack of solid lies < 1284184601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meeting at the mountain's top < 1284184604 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: why are you all wet in that pic < 1284184610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you don't want to know < 1284184617 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i do < 1284184621 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I was sitting in a hot car for a while < 1284184625 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's pretty Gross Sweat < 1284184638 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for asking though you are quite observant < 1284184643 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH REALLY < 1284184651 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1284184653 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wait what parts? for what? < 1284184660 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, gaming computer < 1284184661 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like a sweaty grimey man < 1284184666 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OK < 1284184686 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: nice ;) < 1284184709 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: got any more pics? 8D < 1284184713 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1284184714 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yeah < 1284184719 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1284184722 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link away! < 1284184830 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/tAVTM.jpg < 1284184830 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/BySSK.jpg < 1284184830 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/hrSR7.jpg < 1284184830 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/MJDtg.jpg < 1284184830 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/sqKOd.jpg < 1284184832 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/u5z7p.jpg < 1284184839 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that < 1284184883 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait the myspace-esque one http://i.imgur.com/iPy0d.jpg < 1284184884 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckable < 1284184907 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how bout you two move this to pm < 1284184920 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe later cpressey < 1284184922 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: but that would defeat the point < 1284184935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 Final Specification < 1284184935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chris Pressey, Sept 11, 1998 < 1284184935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :revised for clarity: Sept 30 1998 < 1284184935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Table of Contents < 1284184935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introduction < 1284184935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a Funge? < 1284184937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About this Document < 1284184939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Funge Virtual Machine < 1284184941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code and Data < 1284184943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-Space < 1284184945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Stack < 1284184947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge Source File Format < 1284184949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code: Program Flow < 1284184951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction Pointer < 1284184953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instructions < 1284184955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Direction Changing < 1284184957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrapping < 1284184959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flow Control < 1284184961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decision Making < 1284184963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data: Cell Crunching < 1284184965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integers < 1284184967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strings < 1284184969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Manipulation < 1284184971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Stack Manipulation < 1284184973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Media: Communications and Storage < 1284184975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-Space Storage < 1284184977 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION manipulates alise's stack
< 1284184977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard Input/Output < 1284184979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File Input/Output < 1284184981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System Execution < 1284184983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System Information Retrieval < 1284184985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scale: Extension and Customization < 1284184987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handprints < 1284184989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fingerprints < 1284184991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge Central Registry < 1284184993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appendix < 1284184995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction Quick Reference < 1284184997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concurrent Funge-98 < 1284184999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lahey-Space < 1284185001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other Topologies < 1284185003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introduction < 1284185005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a Funge? < 1284185007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funges are programming languages whose programs are typically expressed in a given topological pattern and number of dimensions. < 1284185010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 is currently an official prototype standard for Funges. Funge-98 has evolved from Funge-97, which was a generalization of Befunge-97, which was an improvement over Befunge-96, which was an update of the original Befunge-93 language definition. < 1284185014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 is a class of three real and officially sanctioned programming languages (Unefunge, Befunge, and Trefunge) and provides a paradigm for describing any number of imaginary ones with different topologies and any number of dimensions. < 1284185018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most popular Funge by far is Befunge, which is two-dimensional and based on a Cartesian Lahey-Space (or Cartesian Torus, in Befunge-93 only) topology. Other Cartesian Lahey-Space Funges include Unefunge (one-dimensional) and Trefunge (three-dimensional.) Since not all Funge instructions are appropriate in all Funges, comparison to Befunge is often used to clarify points in this document. < 1284185023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About this Document < 1284185025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a final document. The information it contains has been formally approved and it is endorsed by its supporters as the 'official' technical specification of the Funge language family. < 1284185028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This document is suitable < 1284185029 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALISE I WILL FUCK YOU UP < 1284185030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introduction < 1284185032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a Funge? < 1284185034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funges are programming languages whose programs are typically expressed in a given topological pattern and number of dimensions. < 1284185036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you're spamming < 1284185037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 is currently an official prototype standard for Funges. Funge-98 has evolved from Funge-97, which was a generalization of Befunge-97, which was an improvement over Befunge-96, which was an update of the original Befunge-93 language definition. < 1284185041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/flushq or similar? < 1284185041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 is a class of three real and officially sanctioned programming languages (Unefunge, Befunge, and Trefunge) and provides a paradigm for describing any number of imaginary ones with different topologies and any number of dimensions. < 1284185045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most popular Funge by far is Befunge, which is two-dimensional and based on a Cartesian Lahey-Space (or Cartesian Torus, in Befunge-93 only) topology. Other Cartesian Lahey-Space Funges include Unefunge (one-dimensional) and Trefunge (three-dimensional.) Since not all Funge instructions are appropriate in all Funges, comparison to Befunge is often used to clarify points in this document. < 1284185050 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i suspect he accidentally send the whole thing < 1284185050 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spamming is preferable < 1284185050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About this Document < 1284185052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a final document. The information it contains has been formally approved and it is endorsed by its supporters as the 'official' technical specification of the Funge language family. < 1284185055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This document is suitable for an audience not already familiar with any Funge of any kind or year. < 1284185057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Funge Virtual Machine < 1284185058 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wont stop till it sends it all < 1284185059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code and Data < 1284185061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any given piece of code or data in a Funge can be stored in one of two places (called a cell): < 1284185063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-Space, a matrix appropriate to the dimensionality, topology and tiling pattern of the Funge, where each node in its topological net contains a cell; or < 1284185066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack in Befunge-93 or the stack stack in Funge-98; either way, it's often called the stack and it's accessed as a last-in, first-out (LIFO) stack of cells. < 1284185069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-93 defines signed 32-bit stack cells and unsigned 8-bit Funge-Space cells. In Funge-98, stack and Funge-Space cells alike should be treated as signed integers of the same size. < 1284185072 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rate its going seems like that < 1284185072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What size exactly is left up to the impl < 1284185072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flushq on XChat stops sending < 1284185076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 bits is typical. 16 bit and 8 bit versions are discussed as separate variations on Funge-98. More than 32 bits is just fine. The important thing is that the stack cells have the same memory size as the Funge-Space cells. < 1284185079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-Space < 1284185081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Befunge-93, Funge-Space is restricted to 80 cells in the x dimension and 25 cells in the y dimension. No such limits are imposed on Funge-98 programs. A Funge-98 interpreter, ideally, has an addressing range equal to that of its cell size. i.e. A 32-bit implementation of Funge-98 uses signed 32-bit integers as each of its coordinate indices. < 1284185083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know what the equiv is for alise's client < 1284185086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With such a large typical addressing range, the Funge-98-Space is generally considered to be dynamically allocated by some behind-the-scenes mechanism in the compiler. It needn't be, of course, but in practice, it usually is. < 1284185089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the storage mechanism has be consistently trustworthy about how it provides Funge-Space to the running program. A Funge-98 program should be able to rely on all code and data that it puts in Funge-Space through this mechanism not disappearing. A Funge-98 program should also be able to rely on the memory mechanism acting as if a cell contains blank space (ASCII 32) if it is unallocated, and setting memory to be full of blank space cells upon actual alloc < 1284185094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ation (program load, or p instruction). If the underlying memory mechanism cannot provide this (e.g. no more memory is available to be allocated,) the interpreter should complain with an error and do what it can to recover, (but not necessarily gracefully). < 1284185098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The co-ordinate mapping used for both Befunge-93 and Funge-98 reflects the "Computer Storage" co-ordinate system used in screen graphics and spreadsheets; a larger y coordinate means further down the page. Compared to a standard mathematical representation < 1284185102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the usual Cartesian co-ordinate system, it is upside-down. < 1284185103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Alt-F4? < 1284185104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Befunge-93 32-bit Befunge-98 < 1284185106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ========== ================= < 1284185108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 x 79 |-2,147,483,648 < 1284185109 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: THIS IS PREFERABLE < 1284185110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0+-------------+ | < 1284185112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | | x < 1284185114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | -----+----- < 1284185116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : y| -2,147,483,648 | 2,147,483,647 < 1284185118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | | < 1284185120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | y|2,147,483,647 < 1284185122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 24+ < 1284185124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Stack < 1284185125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, wha? < 1284185126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Funge stack stack is a LIFO stack of typical LIFO stacks of cells. In Befunge-93, only two operations are possible on only one stack (referred to as the stack): to push a cell onto the top of the stack, and to pop a cell off the top of the stack. < 1284185130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the case of Funge-98, however, the stack refers to the topmost stack on the stack stack. The push and pop operations are possible on the stack stack as well, but they push and pop entire stacks. < 1284185133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also a Funge-98 instruction to rid the stack (that is, the topmost stack of the stack stack) of cells, completely emptying it. < 1284185134 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is stuck < 1284185136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a program attempts to pop a cell off the stack when it is empty, no error occurs; the program acts as if it popped a 0. < 1284185139 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he cant respond at all i think < 1284185139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this document, short stacks are generally notated left to right to mean bottom to top. The leftmost values listed in the documentation are the bottommost and the first to be pushed onto the stack. Long stacks are notated top to bottom, to mean precisely that, top to bottom.. < 1284185143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge Source File Format < 1284185145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Befunge-93 source (program) file name, by common convention, ends in the extension .bf. There is no enforced convention for what any given Funge-98 source file name ends in (e.g. you could easily write a C-Befunge polyglot whose file name ends in .c), but .b98 is a good choice for Befunge-98 sources - "standard" example programs use this suffix. < 1284185150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-93 source files are plain text files containing only printable ASCII characters and the end-of-line controls described below. < 1284185153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 source files are made up of Funge characters. The Funge-98 character set overlays the ASCII subset used by Befunge-93 and may have characters greater than 127 present in it (and greater than 255 on systems where characters are stored in multiple bytes; but no greater than 2,147,483,647.) The Funge character set is 'display-independent.' That is to say, character #417 may look like a squiggle on system Foo and a happy face on system Bar, but the mea < 1284185158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ning is always the same to Funge, 'character #417', regardless of what it looks like. < 1284185160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, what Funge characters look like on a particular computer or OS depends entirely on that computer or OS. However, when characters are not generally considered to be printable, they can have special meaning to Funge-98: < 1284185162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E can still Alt-F4 or worst-comes-to-worst, hard-reset < 1284185164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0..31 : "ASCII controls" (only 10 is currently defined to mean EOL) < 1284185166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32..126 : "ASCII printable characters" (all are input/output and fixed-width) < 1284185168 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(15 year olds are known for their immature spamming; maturity doesn't come till later for most (modulo a few special exceptions)) < 1284185168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :127 : "delete control" (undefined) < 1284185170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128..2bil: "extended printable characters" (machine and font specific) < 1284185170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming e sees any of this < 1284185172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Befunge-93, each line ends with the current operating system's "end of line" character, which may be a line feed (10) (Linux), carriage return (13) (MacOS), or carriage return-line feed (13, 10) (MS-DOS). < 1284185175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Funge-98, however, any of the following sequences should, ideally, be recognized by the interpreter as an end-of-line marker, no matter what operating system it's running on: < 1284185178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Line Feed (10) < 1284185180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carriage Return (13) < 1284185182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carriage Return, Line Feed (13, 10) < 1284185184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If an interpreter cannot support all three varieties of end-of-line marker, it should be clearly noted in that interpreter's documentation. < 1284185187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :End-of-line markers do not appear in Funge-Space once the program is loaded. < 1284185189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Befunge-93, each line can contain up to 80 significant characters before the "End of Line" marker. There can be up to 25 such lines in the source file. There are no such restrictions on Befunge-98 and the user can reasonably expect to be able to have as many lines of as many characters as they want, for non-contrived cases. < 1284185193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before load, every cell in Funge-Space contains a space (32) character. These default contents are written over by characters in the program source when it is loaded. However, spaces in the program source do not overwrite anything in Funge-Space; in essence the space character is transparent in source files. This becomes important when the i "Input File" instruction is used to include overlapping files. < 1284185198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The source file begins at the origin of Funge-Space. Subsequent columns of characters increment the x coordinate, and subsequent lines increment the y coordinate (if one is present) and reset the x coordinate to zero. Subsequent lines in Unefunge are simply appended to the first, and the end of the source file indicates the end of the (single) line. End-of-line markers are never copied into Funge-Space. < 1284185203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Trefunge-98, the Form Feed (12) character increments the z coordinate and resets the x and y coordinates to zero. < 1284185206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code: Program Flow < 1284185208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction Pointer < 1284185210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The instruction pointer (IP) can be thought of as a vector (set of co-ordinates) which represents the "current position" of a running Funge program. It holds the same function as the instruction pointer (or program counter (PC)) in any other language or processor - to indicate where the currently executing instruction is located. < 1284185216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In most other languages and machines (both virtual and real,) the IP/PC is restricted to unidirectional travel in a single dimension, with random jumps. However, in Funge, the IP keeps track of another vector called the delta. Every tick, the IP executes its current instruction (that is, the instruction at the location pointed to by the IP), then travels to a new location, by adding its delta vector to its position vector. < 1284185221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the beginning of a program, in Funge-98 as in Befunge-93, the IP always begins at the origin and starts with a delta of (1, 0). The origin is (0, 0) in Befunge, (0) in Unefunge, and (0, 0, 0) in Trefunge. < 1284185224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In two dimensions, we have the following terminology. < 1284185226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the IP's delta is either (0,-1) (south), (1,0) (east), (0,1) (north), or (-1,0) (west), it is said to be traveling cardinally. This is the same as how a rook moves in chess and this is in fact the only way the IP can move in Befunge-93. < 1284185230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any IP with a nonzero delta is considered moving. Any IP with a zero delta is said to be stopped. Any moving IP that is not traveling cardinally is said to be flying. < 1284185233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instructions < 1284185235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All standard instructions are one character long and range from ASCII 32 (space) to ASCII 126 (~). There are no multicharacter instructions in Funge. < 1284185238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An instruction is executed by an IP every tick. The IP executed is the one at the current position of the IP. Only after that does the IP moves by its delta to a new position. < 1284185238 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I'm surprised how little you understand < 1284185241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instructions A to Z all initially act like the r "Reflect" instruction. However, other instructions assign semantics to these instructions dynamically, allowing the Funge programmer to use libraries of both standard and proprietary instruction sets tagged with unique ID's (or fingerprints.) < 1284185245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, a Funge-98 interpreter may also expose any number of proprietary instructions above ASCII 127 or below ASCII 0. < 1284185245 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: true < 1284185246 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone please kick alise < 1284185248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all these reasons, when encountering any unimplemented instruction (this includes instructions like | in Unefunge,) the Funge interpreter should at least provide an option for informing the user that it was told to execute an instruction that isn't implemented, and possibly warning the user that this file might be an incorrect language or version. < 1284185253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An unimplemented instruction must otherwise act as if r was executed, and must not touch the stack. All undefined or otherwise unimplemented instructions must be considered unimplemented. < 1284185256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, any of the instructions t (concurrent execution,) = (execute,) i (input-file,) and o (output-file) may be unavailable in different interpreters for many reasons, and are routinely bound to (i.e. act just like) r as well. However, they may also act like r when they fail to exec < 1284185259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is oerjan an op? < 1284185260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ute. To test if they are actually supported, execute 1y and examine the cell it produces. < 1284185262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Direction Changing < 1284185264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few instructions are essential for changing the delta of the IP. The > "Go East" instruction causes the IP to travel east; the < "Go West" instruction causes the IP to travel west. These instructions are valid in all Funges. < 1284185268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ^ "Go North" instruction causes the IP to travel north; the v "Go South" instruction causes the IP to travel south. These instructions are not available in Unefunge. < 1284185268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to be an op
< 1284185271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The h "Go High" instruction causes the IP to travel up (delta <- (0,0,1)); the l "Go Low" instruction causes the IP to travel down (delta <- (0,0,-1)). These instructions are not available in Unefunge or Befunge. < 1284185273 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: actually no, I guess I'm not that surprised < 1284185274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ? "Go Away" instruction causes the IP to travel in a random cardinal direction appropriate to the number of dimensions in use: east or west in Unefunge; north, south, east or west in Befunge, etc. < 1284185277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following instructions are not in Befunge-93, but they are in Funge-98. < 1284185279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ] "Turn Right" and [ "Turn Left" instructions rotate by 90 degrees the delta of the IP which encounters them. They always rotate on the z axis. These instructions are not available in Unefunge. < 1284185280 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah :/ < 1284185282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To remember which is which, visualize yourself on the seat of a bicycle, looking down at the handlebars: < 1284185284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+- < 1284185286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|  < 1284185288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+- +-+ < 1284185290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| | -+ < 1284185292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1284185294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-+ < 1284185296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[   ] < 1284185298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn Left Go Forward Turn Right < 1284185300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The r "Reverse" instruction multiplies the IP's delta by -1. In two dimensions, this is the equivalent of reflecting the delta of the IP about the z-axis. < 1284185301 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: would you ever say anything to contradict me? < 1284185303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The x "Absolute Vector" instruction pops a vector off the stack, and sets the IP delta to that vector. < 1284185305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vector on the stack is stored bottom-to-top, so that in Befunge, x (and all other vector-popping instructions) pops a value it calls dy, then pops a value it calls dx, then sets the delta to (dx, dy). < 1284185306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might alise be vulnerable to some exploit? < 1284185308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrapping < 1284185310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-93 handles the case of the IP travelling out of bounds (off the map of Funge-Space) by treating the space as a torus. If the IP leaves the west edge, it reappears on the east edge at the same row; if it leaves the south edge, it reappears at the north edge at the same column, and vice versa in both cases. < 1284185312 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes < 1284185314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For various reasons, toroidal wrapping is problematic in Funge-98. Instead, we use a special wrapping technique that has more consistent results in this new, more flexible environment where Funge-Space can have an arbitrary size and the IP can fly. It is called same-line wrapping. < 1284185315 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a funge exploit? < 1284185318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same-line wrapping can be described in several ways, but the crucial idea it encompasses is this: unless the delta or position of the IP were to be changed by an intervening instruction, the IP will always wrap such that it would eventually return to the instruction it was on before it wrapped. < 1284185319 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe < 1284185320 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I see < 1284185322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mathematical description of same-line wrapping is known as Lahey-space wrapping, which defines a special topological space. It is generally of more interest to topologists and mathematicians than programmers. We won't cover it here, but it is included in the Appendix for completeness. < 1284185326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The algorithmic description of same-line wrapping can be described as backtrack wrapping. It is more of interest to Funge interpreter implementers than Funge programmers. However, it does describe exactly how the wrapping acts in terms that a programmer can understand, so we will include it here. < 1284185327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some exploit that tends to kick people off IRC < 1284185330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the IP attempts to travel into the whitespace between the code and the end of known, addressable space, it backtracks. This means that its delta is reversed and it ignores (skips over without executing) all instructions. Travelling thus, it finds the other 'edge' of code when there is again nothing but whitespace in front of it. It is reflected 180 degrees once more (to restore its original delta) and stops ignoring instructions. Execution then resumes < 1284185335 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :ALISE: poke me when you're not spamming anymore. | The cheesy channel (cheddar) | Also combûter programming | Should the esolangs community have a Hackiki wiki? You should've voted: http://poll.fm/23p9l | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1284185335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : normally - the wrap is complete. < 1284185339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is easy to see at this point that the IP remains on the same line: thus the name. (Also note that this never takes any ticks in regards to multithreading, as would be expected from any wrapping process.) < 1284185342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same-line wrapping has the advantage of being backward-compatible with Befunge-93's toroidal wrapping. It also works safely both when the IP delta is flying (non-cardinal), and when the size of the program changes. < 1284185345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As noted, by default every cell in Funge-Space contains a space (32) character. (This holds true with most decent Befunge-93 interpreters, too, although it was not in the original.) < 1284185346 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches his beautiful beautiful spec fling through the aether
< 1284185348 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: One day you'll be on good terms with me I hope! < 1284185348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Befunge-93, when interpreted as an instruction, a space is treated as a "no operation" or nop. The interpreter does nothing and continues on its merry way. < 1284185351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 acts much the same way, except technically, Funge-98 processes any number of spaces in "no time whatsoever", and this becomes important when you have more than one IP in Funge-Space at the same time (multithreading), which you'll read about later. For an explicit nop instruction in Funge-98, use z. < 1284185355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space also takes on special properties (in Funge-98) with a special mode of the interpreter called stringmode, which you'll also read about late < 1284185358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flow Control < 1284185358 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: did you write this spec < 1284185359 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1284185360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The # "Trampoline" instruction moves the IP one position beyond the next Funge-Space cell in its path. < 1284185362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The @ "Stop" instruction kills the current IP. In non-Concurrent Funge, there is only a single IP. Either way, when no IP's are left alive, the program will subsequently end with no error (returning error code 0). < 1284185365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following instructions and markers are not in Befunge-93, but they are in Funge-98. < 1284185367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ; "Jump Over" marker causes the IP to jump over all subsequent instructions until the next ; marker. Like space, this takes zero ticks to execute, so that subroutines, comments, and satellite code can be insulated by surrounding it with ; markers, with no effect on multithreading. < 1284185371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; is truly ethereal; like space, it cannot ever be truly executed, in the sense of it taking up a tick and doing something. < 1284185373 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: you don't even know *that* < 1284185374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The j "Jump Forward" instruction pops a value off the stack, and jumps over that many spaces. If there is a 1 on the stack, j will work like # does. e.g. 2j789. would print 9 and leave an empty stack. Negative values are legal arguments for j, such that 04-j@ is an infinite loop. < 1284185378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The q "Quit" instruction, only in Funge-98, ends the entire program immediately (regardless of the number of IPs active in Concurrent Funge). It also pops a cell off the stack and uses that value as the return value of the Funge interpreter to the operating system. < 1284185379 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: true < 1284185382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that most operating systems will only look at the least significant byte your return value, unsigned. But you can return a full cell, and the OS will interpret as much of it as it can handle, treating it as signed or unsigned as the OS demands. < 1284185386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The k "Iterate" instruction pops a value n off the stack. Then it finds the next instruction in Funge-space in the path of the IP (note that this cannot be a marker such as space or ;), treats it as an instruction, executing it n times. This takes only one tick with respect to concurrent operation. < 1284185390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that some instructions don't make much sense within the context of k unless you include zero as one of the p < 1284185392 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :The cheesy channel (cheddar) | Also combûter programming | Should the esolangs community have a Hackiki wiki? You should've voted: http://poll.fm/23p9l | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1284185393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : n off the stack. Then it finds the next instruction in Funge-space in the path of the IP (note that this cannot be a marker such as space or ;), treats it as an instruction, executing it n times. This takes only one tick with respect to concurrent operation. < 1284185397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that some instructions don't make much sense within the context of k unless you include zero as one of the possibilities for how many times the instruction is repeated. For example, no matter how many times after the first time k execute ^, the result is the same. However, you may pass a zero count to k, and the ^ instruction will not be executed; this can be a valuable behaviour. < 1284185400 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid limechat has no /ignore :| < 1284185402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, note k will never, ever actually execute instruction #32, space, or ;. < 1284185404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decision Making < 1284185406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ! "Logical Not" instruction pops a value off the stack and pushes a value which is the logical negation of it. If the value is zero, it pushes one; if it is non-zero, it pushes zero. < 1284185409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ` "Greater Than" instruction pops two cells off the stack, then pushes a one if second cell is greater than the first. Otherwise pushes a zero. < 1284185412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge has instructions that act like directional 'if' statements. The _ "East-West If" instruction pops a value off the stack; if it is zero it acts like >, and if non-zero it acts like <. < 1284185415 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ARE THERE NOT OPS?! < 1284185415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The | "North-South If" instruction pops a value off the stack; if it is zero it acts < 1284185416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise was able to successfully contact me. < 1284185417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like v, and if non-zero it acts like ^. | is not available in Unefunge. < 1284185419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The m "High-Low If" (think middle) instruction pops a value off the stack; if it is zero it acts like l, and if non-zero it acts like h. m is not available in Unefunge or Befunge. < 1284185422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And implied that this is deliberate. < 1284185422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The w "Compare" instruction pops a value b off the stack, then pops a value a, then compares them. (a is called a because it was the first of the two values to be pushed onto the stack.) If the a is smaller, w acts like [, and turns left. If the a is greater, w acts like ], and turns right. If a and b are equal, w does not affect the IP's delta. This instruction is not available in Befunge-93, nor Unefunge. < 1284185424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, alise. < 1284185425 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I wanted to offer typesetting it for you < 1284185427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data: Cell Crunching < 1284185429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integers < 1284185431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instructions 0 "Push Zero" through 9 "Push Niner" push the values zero through nine onto the stack, respectively. In Funge-98, a through f also push 10 through 15 respectively. < 1284185434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The + "Add" instruction pops two cells from the stack, adds them using integer addition, and pushes the result back onto the stack. < 1284185437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The * "Multiply" instruction pops two cells from the stack, multiplies them using integer multiplication, and pushes the result back onto the stack. In this way numbers larger than 9 (or 15) can be pushed onto the stack. < 1284185440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, to push the value 123 onto the stack, one might write < 1284185442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 99*76*+ < 1284185444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1284185444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope never to have to violate your trust again. < 1284185446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 555**2- < 1284185448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge also offers the following arithmetic instructions: < 1284185450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the - "Subtract" instruction, which pops two values, subtracts the first from the second using integer subtraction, and pushes the result; < 1284185453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the / "Divide" instruction, which pops two values, divides the second by the first using integer division, and pushes the result (note that division by zero produces a result of zero in Funge-98, but Befunge-93 instead is supposed to ask the user what they want the result of the division to be); and < 1284185455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: hm, typesetting.... hm. no < 1284185457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the % "Remainder" instruction, which pops two values, divides the second by the first using integer division, and pushes the remainder, of those. Remainder by zero is subject to the same rules as division by zero, but if either argument is negative, the result is implementation-defined. < 1284185461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strings < 1284185463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The instruction " "Toggle Stringmode" toggles a special mode of the Funge interpreter called stringmode. In stringmode, every cell encountered by the IP (except " and in Funge-98, space) is not interpreted as an instruction, but rather as a Funge character, and is pushed onto the stack. A subsequent " toggles stringmode once more, turning it off. < 1284185468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Funge-98 stringmode, spaces are treated "SGML-style"; that is, when any contiguous series of spaces is processed, it only takes one tick and pushes one space onto the stack. This introduces a small backward-incompatibility with Befunge-93; programs that have multiple spaces and/or wrap while in stringmode will have to be changed to work the same under Funge-98. < 1284185471 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS THE BEST TYPESETTING OF THIS SPEC, EVER < 1284185473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-93 Befunge-98 < 1284185475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hello world" "hello world" < 1284185477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hello world" "hello "::"world" < 1284185478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, maybe e messaged me at a different time < 1284185479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also a ' "Fetch Character" instruction in Funge-98. This pushes the Funge character value of the next encountered cell (position + delta) onto the stack, then adds the delta to the position (like #), skipping over the character (in no ticks). For example, the following two snippets perform the same function, printing a Q: < 1284185483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Q", < 1284185484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the middle somewhere < 1284185485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Q, < 1284185487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s "Store Character" is the mirror image of the ' instruction: this instead pops a value off the stack and writes it into (position + delta). < 1284185489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus can't actually respond < 1284185489 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well I am not offering it, I just was going to if you answered my question earlier with "yes" < 1284185490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some instructions expect a Funge string on the stack as one of their arguments. The standard format for these strings is called 0"gnirts" - that is, a null-terminated string with the start of the string at the top of the stack and the null termination at the bottom. < 1284185496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Manipulation < 1284185498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The $ "Pop" instruction pops a cell off the stack and discards it. < 1284185500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The : "Duplicate" instruction pops a cell off the stack, then pushes it back onto the stack twice, duplicating it. < 1284185503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The \ "Swap" instruction pops two cells off the stack, then pushes the first cell back on, then the second cell, in effect swapping the top two cells on the stack. < 1284185506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The n "Clear Stack" instruction (not available in Befunge-93) completely wipes the stack (popping and discarding elements until it is empty.) < 1284185509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Stack Manipulation < 1284185511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stack stack transparently overlays the stack - that is to say, the top stack of Funge-98's stack stack is treated the same as Befunge-93's sole stack. The Funge programmer will never notice the difference unless they use the {, }, or u instructions of Funge-98. < 1284185515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When working with different stacks on the stack stack, though, it's useful to give two of them names: the top of stack stack or TOSS, which indicates the topmost stack on the stack stack, which works to emulate the sole stack of Befunge-93; and the second on stack stack or SOSS, which is the stack directly under the TOSS. < 1284185519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The { "Begin Block" instruction pops a cell it calls n, then pushes a new stack on the top of the stack stack, transfers n elements from the SOSS to the TOSS, then pushes the storage offset as a vector onto the SOSS, then sets the new storage offset to the location to be executed next by the IP (storage offset <- position + delta). It copies these elements as a block, so order is preserved. < 1284185524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the SOSS contains k elements, where k is less than n, the k elements are transferred as the top k elements and the remaining bottom (n-k) elements are filled in with zero-value cells. < 1284185527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If n is zero, no elements are transferred. < 1284185529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If n is negative, |n| zeroes are pushed onto the SOSS. < 1284185531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The corresponding } "End Block" instruction pops a cell off the stack that it calls n, then pops a vector off the SOSS which it assigns to the storage offset, then transfers n elements (as a block) from the TOSS to the SOSS, then pops the top stack off the stack stack. < 1284185535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The transfer of elements for } "End Block" is in all respects similar to the transfer of elements for { "Begin Block", except for the direction in which elements are transferred. "Transfer" is used here in the sense of "move," not "copy": the original cells are removed. < 1284185539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If n is zero, no elements are transferred. < 1284185541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If n is negative, |n| cells are popped off of the (original) SOSS. < 1284185543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ makes the current TOSS the new SOSS. } makes the current SOSS the new TOSS. < 1284185545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ may act like r if no more memory is available for another stack. } acts like r if a stack-stack underflow would otherwise occur (i.e. when there is only one stack on the stack-stack.) < 1284185548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The practical use of these instructions is to "insulate" and "localize" procedures or other blocks of Funge code. < 1284185551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The u "Stack under Stack" instruction pops a count and transfers that many cells from the SOSS to the TOSS. It transfers these cells in a pop-push loop. In other words, the order is not preserved during transfer, it is reversed. < 1284185555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is no SOSS (the TOSS is the only stack), u should act like r. < 1284185557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If count is negative, |count| cells are transferred (similarly in a pop-push loop) from the TOSS to the SOSS. < 1284185560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If count is zero, nothing happens. < 1284185562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Media: Communications and Storage < 1284185564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-Space Storage < 1284185566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The g "Get" and p "Put" instructions are used to store and retrieve data and code in Funge-Space. < 1284185568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Befunge-93, g pops a vector (that is, it pops a y value, then an x value,) and pushes the value (character) in the Befunge-Space cell at (x, y) onto the stack. p pops a vector, then it pops a value, then it places that value in the Funge-Space cell at (x, y). < 1284185572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Funge-98, each IP has an additional vector property called the storage offset. Initially this vector is the set to the origin. As such, it works to emulate Befunge-93. The arguments to g and p are the same, but instead of pointing to absolute locations in Funge-Space, they reference a cell relative to the storage offset. < 1284185576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard Input/Output < 1284185578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The . "Output Decimal" and , "Output Character" instructions provide numeric and Funge character/control output, respectively; they pop a cell off the stack and send it in numeric or Funge character format to the standard output, which is usually displayed by the interpreter in an interactive user terminal. < 1284185582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outputting character number 10 will result in a new line being displayed on the standard output. < 1284185584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numeric output is formatted as a decimal integer followed by a space. < 1284185586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These instructions will act as r does, should the standard output fail for any reason. < 1284185588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The & "Input Decimal" and ~ "Input Character" instructions provide numeric and Funge character/control input, respectively. They each suspend the program and wait for the user to enter a value in numeric or Funge character format to the standard input, which is usually displayed with the standard output. They then push this value on the stack. < 1284185592 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Ever read McLuhan? < 1284185592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An input of character number 10 indicates that the user pressed the 'Enter' key, or the equivalent key on their keyboard. < 1284185595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decimal input reads and discards characters until it encounters decimal digit characters, at which point it reads a decimal number from those digits, up until (but not including) the point at which input characters stop being digits, or the point where the next digit would cause a cell overflow, whichever comes first. < 1284185599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the standard input and output are generally displayed in some sort of interactive user terminal, they needn't be; many operating systems support redirection. In the case of an end-of-file or other file error condition, the & and ~ both act like r. < 1284185603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File Input/Output < 1284185605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File I/O is done with the i "Input File" and o "Output File" instructions, which are only available in Funge-98. < 1284185608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pops a null-terminated 0"gnirts" string for the filename, followed by a flags cell, then a vector Va telling it where to operate. If the file can be opened for reading, it is inserted into Funge-Space at Va, and immediately closed. Two vectors are then pushed onto the stack < 1284185612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, Va and Vb, suitable arguments to a corresponding o instruction. If the file open failed, the instruction acts like r. < 1284185615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i is in all respects similar to the procedure used to load the main Funge source code file, except it may specify any file, not necessarily Funge source code, and at any location, not necessarily the origin. < 1284185618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if the least significant bit of the flags cell is high, i treats the file as a binary file; that is, EOL and FF sequences are stored in Funge-space instead of causing the dimension counters to be reset and incremented. < 1284185620 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no < 1284185621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o first pops a null-terminated 0"gnirts" string to use for a filename. Then it pops a flags cell. It then pops a vector Va indicating a least point (point with the smallest numerical coordinates of a region; also known as the upper-left corner, when used in the context of Befunge) in space, and another vector Vb describing the size of a rectangle (or a rectangular prism in Trefunge, etc). If the file named by the filename can be opened for writing, the cont < 1284185626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ents of the rectangle of Funge-Space from Va to Va+Vb are written into it, and it is immediately closed. If not, the instruction acts like r. < 1284185627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was all a ploy of alise to get Quadrescence to be quiet. < 1284185629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first vectors popped by both of these instructions are considered relative to the storage offset. (The size vector Vb, of course, is relative to the least point Va.) < 1284185632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that in a greater-than-two-dimensional environment, specifying a more-than-two-dimensional size such as (3,3,3) is not guaranteed to produce sensical results. < 1284185635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if the least significant bit of the flags cell is high, o treats the file as a linear text file; that is, any spaces before each EOL, and any EOLs before the EOF, are not written out. The resulting text file is identical in appearance and takes up less storage space. < 1284185636 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: true < 1284185638 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it worked < 1284185639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System Execution < 1284185640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, alise, I'm really sorry. < 1284185641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The = "Execute" instruction pops a string off the stack, and attempts to execute it. How it executes it is implementation dependant. However, an implementation may support one of several standardized ways of interpreting the string, and which routine it uses can be determined by querying y. Typically methods include treating it as a C system() call would, or on a platform such as MacOS, for example, treating the string as AppleScript would be in order. < 1284185646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After execution, a failure value is pushed onto the stack. If this value is zero, everything went as expected. If the value is non-zero, it may be the return-code of the program that was executed; at any rate it means that the attempt to execute the program, or the program itself, did not succeed. < 1284185650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System Information Retrieval < 1284185652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The y "Get SysInfo" instruction, only available in Funge-98, pops one value off the stack. If the value is zero or negative, y tells you far more than you ever really want to know about the underlying Funge interpreter, operating system, and computer (and is thus usually followed soon after by a n instruction). < 1284185658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each cell of information retrieved by y, only applies to either the current IP, the current environment (that is, the interpreter of the current IP,) or the global environment (the environment of every IP in the same Funge-space, regardless of which interpreter it's running on.) < 1284185662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After an execution of y with a non-positive argument, the stack contains many more cells (listed from top to bottom:) < 1284185665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing flags (env). < 1284185667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Least Significant Bit 0 (0x01): high if t is implemented. (is this Concurrent Funge-98?) < 1284185669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit 1 (0x02): high if i is implemented. < 1284185671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit 2 (0x04): high if o is implemented. < 1284185673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit 3 (0x08): high if = is implemented. < 1284185675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most Significant Bit 4 (0x10): high if unbuffered standard I/O (like getch()) is in effect, low if the usual buffered variety (like scanf("%c")) is being used. < 1284185678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Further more significant bits: undefined, should all be low in Funge-98 < 1284185680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing the number of bytes per cell (global env). < 1284185682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka cell size. Typically 4, could also be 2, 8, really really large, infinity, etc. < 1284185684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing the implementation's handprint (env). < 1284185686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing the implementation's version number (env). < 1284185688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the version number contains points, they're stripped. v2.01 == 201, v1.03.05 = 10305, v1.5g = 1507. Don't use non-numbers in the version number to indicate 'personalizations' - change the handprint instead. < 1284185691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing an ID code for the Operating Paradigm (global env) < 1284185693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = Unavailable < 1284185695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = Equivalent to C-language system() call behaviour < 1284185699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 = Equivalent to interpretation by a specific shell or program < 1284185701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This shell or program is specified by the interpreter but should ideally be customizable by the interpreter-user, if applicable. Befunge programs that run under this paradigm should document what program they expect to interpret the string passed to =. < 1284185705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 = Equivalent to interpretation by the same shell as started this Funge interpreter, if applicable < 1284185707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the interpreter supports this paradigm, then in this manner, the user executing a Befunge source can easily choose which shell to use for = instructions. < 1284185710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This value is included so the program can have a reasonable idea of what = will do. The values shown here are only the most basic set available at the time of publication. See the Registry for any late-breaking headway into further Operating Paradigms. < 1284185714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing a path seperator character (global env) < 1284185716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what path seperators for i and o filenames should look like. < 1284185718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing the number of scalars per vector (global env) < 1284185720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka number of dimensions. 2 for Befunge, 1 for Unefunge, 3 for Trefunge. < 1284185722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing a unique ID for the current IP (ip) < 1284185724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only significant for Concurrent Funge. This ID differentiates this IP from all others currently in the IP list. < 1284185727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing a unique team number for the current IP (ip) < 1284185727 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< alise> aka cell size. Typically 4, could also be 2, 8, really really large, infinity, etc. <-- LOVE THAT PART < 1284185729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only significant for NetFunge, BeGlad, and the like. < 1284185731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 vector containing the Funge-Space position of the current IP (ip) < 1284185733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 vector containing the Funge-Space delta of the current IP (ip) < 1284185735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 vector containing the Funge-Space storage offset of the current IP (ip) < 1284185737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 vector containing the least point which contains a non-space cell, relative to the origin (env) < 1284185739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 vector containing the greatest point which contains a non-space cell, relative to the least point (env) < 1284185741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These two vectors are useful to give to the o instruction to output the entire program source as a text file. < 1284185744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing current ((year - 1900) * 256 * 256) + (month * 256) + (day of month) (env) < 1284185746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing current (hour * 256 * 256) + (minute * 256) + (second) (env) < 1284185748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell containing the total number of stacks currently in use by the IP (size of stack stack) (ip) < 1284185750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size-of-stack-stack cells containing size of each stack, listed from TOSS to BOSS (ip) < 1284185752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack sizes are pushed as if they were measured before y began pushing elements onto the stack. < 1284185754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a series of sequences of characters (strings), each terminated by a null, the series terminated by an additional double null, containing the command-line arguments. (env) < 1284185757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This means any isolated argument can be a null string, but no two consecutive arguments may be null strings - a rather contrived scenario, null string arguments being rare in themselves. < 1284185760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first string is the name of the Funge source program being run. < 1284185762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a series of strings, each terminated by a null, the series terminated by an additional null, containing the environment variables. (env) < 1284185765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The format for each variable setting is NAME=VALUE. < 1284185767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If y is given a positive argument, all these cells are pushed onto the stack as if the argument was non-positive. However, y then goes on to copy the argumentth stack cell (counting from the top) into a temporary location, subsequently removing all the cells it pushed onto the stack. It then pushes the temporary cell onto the stack. For example, 3y will act as if only the handprint was pushed onto the stack. < 1284185767 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: how far through are we < 1284185769 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10%? < 1284185772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interesting side-effect of this behaviour is that if y is given an argument that exceeds the number of cells it pushes onto the stack, it can act as a 'pick' instruction on data that was on the stack before y was even executed. < 1284185779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scale: Extension and Customization < 1284185781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 is totally customizable and scalable in terms of functionality, and non-trivial programs can now be written portably in it without any sort of directives. The fingerprint mechanism allows for the definition of a virtually unlimited number of libraries in the form of fingerprinted extensions. The handprint mechanism allows a program to identify exactly what interpreter it's running on. < 1284185784 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: more than that I think, but the whole appendix is yet to come < 1284185786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handprints < 1284185788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A handprint is a bitstring which uniquely identifies a particular implementation (interpreter, compiler, etc.) of Funge-98. < 1284185791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These should really only be used by Funge-98 programs which know about bugs in a known interpreter, and want to work around them when their portable source is run on that interpreter. (Features, on the other hand, should be fingerprints: if everything is properly implemented, the current handprint should be irrelevant. Fingerprints should always be used in preference to handprints when making a design decision - handprints are a fallback for the less-than-i < 1284185796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deal case.) < 1284185798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handprints generally stay they same between revisions of an interpreter. They are accompanied by a version number when retrieved from y. < 1284185801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise asked me a question, I wonder if I should repeat it. < 1284185801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fingerprints < 1284185803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extension and customization of Funge-98 are accomplished through the so-called "fingerprint mechanism". No such mechanism exists for Befunge-93. < 1284185805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know my answer. < 1284185806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be more precise, a fingerprint is a unique ID code which indicates a library of routines (a fingerprinted extension) to be assigned temporarily to what the instructions A to Z do. Multiple loaded fingerprints can overlap and overload, so even object-oriented-like inheritance is possible. < 1284185810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if everyone else agreed... < 1284185810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally speaking, these new semantics and instructions are only available to and only apply to the IP which loaded them. The fingerprint spec itself may make exceptions to this rule, but it must clearly specify what they are. < 1284185814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The semantics of any given extension are generally coded directly into the interpreter. There is no reason, however, they may not be made available in a dynamically-loadable form; but there is no convenient, standard format for such a form. < 1284185818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether the semantics are dynamically loaded from a disk file containing some form of executable code, or hard-wired into the Funge interpreter, is really a moot point from the Funge programmer's perspective. < 1284185821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it is useful to explain at this point for the benefit of both Funge programmers and potential Funge extension writers, that there are two classes of fingerprinted extensions: those that interact with and change the behaviour of the underlying Funge Virtual Machine and/or are not re-entrant (feral extensions), and those which are self-contained and re-entrant (tame extensions). < 1284185824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I doubt it < 1284185826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main difference is that a feral extension cannot simply or easily be "dropped into" a Funge interpreter which is not aware of it. When specifying fingerprinted extensions for public use, please try to make them as tame as possible - although many times it is unavoidable to have a feral fingerprint in order to accomplish a certain semantic goal, such as program control of proprietary interpreter features. < 1284185830 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm not sure alise's client is in any position to respond at this point < 1284185831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ( "Load Semantics" instruction loads the semantics for a given fingerprint onto any or all of the instructions A to Z. ( pops a count. It then pops count cells. For each cell that it pops, it multiplies a temporary value (which is initially zero) by 256, and adds the cell value to it. < 1284185835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this way, ( builds a fingerprint. This mechanism makes it simple to express large fingerprints like 0x452e472e in printable ASCII such as ".G.E"4( ... ), while not requiring the use of ASCII as the medium for all fingerprints. < 1284185839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( then uses this fingerprint to locate and load a set of semantics for the instructions A to Z. If the Funge implementation cannot find the correct library for the given fingerprint, ( acts like r. If, however, the semantic library load is successful, the new fingerprint, then a 1, are pushed onto the stack (to be accepted by a subsequent ) instruction.) < 1284185840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, e is responding via PM < 1284185844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The corresponding ) "Unload Semantics" instruction unloads the semantics for a given fingerprint from any or all of the instructions A to Z (even if that fingerprint had never been loaded before). It pops a count and builds a fingerprint in exactly the same way. < 1284185848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :() in Funge are kind of like "use x ... no x" in Perl. The interpreter-writer or interpreter-customiz < 1284185850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er is allowed to make fingerprints do anything they like, and they may implement fingerprints however they like, but they have to follow some general rules as a 'contract' between the fingerprint and the fingerprint user. < 1284185853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fingerprint should not affect the semantics of any instructions besides A to Z, except under exceptional circumstances which must be clearly documented in the fingerprint's spec. < 1284185856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When loaded, a fingerprint which implements A and B semantics should act something like: < 1284185858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :save(A); bind(A, myAsemantic()); save(B); bind(B, myBsemantic()); < 1284185860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When unloaded, the same fingerprint should act something like < 1284185862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restore(B); restore(A); < 1284185864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this sense, 'bind' means to change what the execution of an instruction does in the current Funge-98 program. < 1284185867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'save' means to save (push onto a stack) the semantics of an instruction for later use. < 1284185869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'restore' means to recall (pop from a stack) the semantics of an instruction from the last saved version. < 1284185871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This allows 'overloading' fingerprints. Say three fingerprints are implemented on your interpreter, < 1284185873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.G. which implements D as 'Destroy' and R as 'Restore' < 1284185875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TEST which implements S as 'Send', R as 'Receive', and E as 'Encrypt' < 1284185877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORK which implements S as 'Slice', D as 'Dice', P as 'Puree' < 1284185879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With these, the Funge programmer ought to be able to make code like: < 1284185881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :".G.E"4( ... "TSET"4( ... "KROW"4( ... S ... ) ... ) ... ) < 1284185883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, the S instruction indicates the 'Slice' instruction in the WORK fingerprint, not 'Send' in TEST. But if it was written as: < 1284185886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"KROW"4( ... "TSET"4( ... ".G.E"4( ... S ... ) ... ) ... ) < 1284185888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The S would indicate 'Send' from TEST, since there is no S in E.G., and a D instruction in the same location would indicate 'Destroy' in E.G., but P would be a 'Puree' from WORK, because it's not defined in either TEST or E.G. < 1284185892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge Central Registry < 1284185894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Funge Central Registry is an online database located at http://www.cats-eye.com/funge/registry/. Before developing and releasing your own Funge-98 implementation or extension, please register all applicable handprints and fingerprints you will require here. < 1284185898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This system is in place both to reduce conflicts between fingerprints and handprints world-wide, ensuring their uniqueness, and to provide a quick reference to all known extant handprints and fingerprints. < 1284185901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There really are no standard libraries in Befunge. A Funge-98 interpreter need not implement any fingerprints whatsoever. Funge-98 "standard" libraries are no more than "officially sanctioned" extensions, catalogued in the Registry by their fingerprints. Since extensions are forever accumulating, see the registry for a list of "standard" fingerprints. < 1284185906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appendix < 1284185908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction Quick Reference < 1284185908 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: we're about 75% or 80% through < 1284185910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 Funge-98 only, not in Befunge-93. < 1284185912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D Minimum 2 dimensions (not in Unefunge). < 1284185914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D Minimum 3 dimensions (not in Unefunge or Befunge). < 1284185916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c Concurrent Funge. Check y to see if these instructions are implemented. < 1284185918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f Filesystem Funge. Check y to see if these instructions are implemented. < 1284185920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decimal ASCII Instruction Stack Before Stack After Other Effects < 1284185922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bottom ... top) < 1284185924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 space Space     not normally executed < 1284185925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :love the tabs < 1284185926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 ! Logical Not b NOT b   < 1284185928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :34 " Toggle Stringmode     stringmode <- NOT stringmode < 1284185930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :35 # Trampoline     pos <- pos + delta < 1284185932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :36 $ Pop n     < 1284185934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :37 % Remainder a b a REM b   < 1284185936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :38 & Input Integer   a a = readint() < 1284185938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39 ' Fetch Character/98   c pos <- pos + delta < 1284185940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 ( Load Semantics/98 en..e1 n f 1 overloads A-Z < 1284185942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :41 ) Unload Semantics/98 en..e1 n   unloads last A-Z < 1284185944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 * Multiply a b a * b   < 1284185946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :43 + Add a b a + b   < 1284185948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :44 , Output Character c   writechar(c) < 1284185950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :45 - Subtract a b a - b   < 1284185952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :46 . Output Integer a   writeint(a) < 1284185954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :47 / Divide a b a / b   < 1284185956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 0 Push Zero   0   < 1284185958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :49 1 Push One   1   < 1284185960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 2 Push Two   2   < 1284185962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :51 3 Push Three   3   < 1284185964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :52 4 Push Four   4   < 1284185966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :53 5 Push Five   5   < 1284185968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :54 6 Push Six   6   < 1284185970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :55 7 Push Seven   7   < 1284185972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :56 8 Push Eight   8   < 1284185974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57 9 Push Niner   9   < 1284185976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :58 : Duplicate v v v   < 1284185978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :59 ; Jump Over/98     nothing executed until next semicolon < 1284185980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 < Go West     delta <- (-1,0) < 1284185982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :61 = Execute/98/f STR r r = system-execute(STR) < 1284185984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :62 > Go East     delta <- (1,0) < 1284185986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63 ? Go Away     delta <- (1,0)?(-1,0)?(0,1)?(0,-1) < 1284185988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 @ Stop     halt IP < 1284185990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :65-90 A-Z       Fingerprint-Defined/98 < 1284185992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :91 [ Turn Left/98/2D     delta <- rot(-90, delta) < 1284185994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :92 \ Swap a b b a   < 1284185996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93 ] Turn Right/98/2D     delta <- rot(90, delta) < 1284185998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :94 ^ Go North/2D     delta <- (0,-1) < 1284186000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95 _ East-West If  b   delta <- if (b) (-1,0) else (1,0) < 1284186002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :96 ` Greater Than  a b a > b either 1 or 0 < 1284186004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97 a Push Ten/98   10   < 1284186006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 b Push Eleven/98   11   < 1284186008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 c Push Twelve/98   12   < 1284186010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 d Push Thirteen/98   13   < 1284186012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :101 e Push Fourteen/98   14   < 1284186014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :102 f Push Fifteen/98   15   < 1284186016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :103 g Get Va v v = fetch-funge-space(offset+Va) < 1284186018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :104 h Go High/98/3D     delta <- (0,0,-1) < 1284186020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :105 i Input File/98/f Va f STR Va Vb inputs file < 1284186022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :106 j Jump Forward/98 s   pos <- pos + delta * s < 1284186024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :107 k Iterate/98 n   execute next instruction now, n times < 1284186026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :108 l Go Low/98/3D     delta <- (0,0,1) < 1284186028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :109 m High-Low If/98/3D b   delta <- if (b) (0,0,-1) else (0,0,1) < 1284186030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :110 n Clear Stack/98 en..e1     < 1284186032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :111 o Output File/98/f Va Vb f STR   outputs file < 1284186034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :112 p Put v Va   store-funge-space(offset+Va,v) < 1284186036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :113 q Quit/98 r   immediate exit, returncode = r < 1284186038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :114 r Reflect/98     delta <- delta * -1 < 1284186040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :115 s Store Character/98 c   store-funge-space(position+delta,v) < 1284186042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :116 t Split/98/c     Split IP < 1284186044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :117 u Stack Under Stack/98 n (en..e1)   < 1284186046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118 v Go South/2D     delta <- (0,1) < 1284186048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :119 w Compare/98/2D a b   if (a>b) ']' elsif (a x:=79, x>79 -> x:=0, y<0 -> y:=24, y>24 -> y:=0) < 1284186124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Befunge-93. Complex topologies can define their own wrapping functions. If these functions are strictly and clearly specified in the documentation of the Advanced Funge in question, it will save a lot of confusion to users, and is highly recommended. < 1284186128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyunder (u)1998 Cat's-Eye Technologies. See http://www.cats-eye.com/license/ for license information. < 1284186153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit sherlock < 1284186158 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit sherlock < 1284186181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1284186183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1284186185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My trust is so broken that my heart will never be whole again. < 1284186189 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1284186247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you for participating in the group reading and commentary session of Chris Pressey's "Funge-98 Final Specification". < 1284186250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Join us again next week, when we will be reciting the entire INTERCAL-72 manual. < 1284186254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, messages arriving out of order. < 1284186270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best. Reading. EVER. < 1284186279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some messages from alise arrived during the reading < 1284186288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still can't figure it out < 1284186373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we will be playing the entire text of Finnegans Wake. < 1284186763 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should attempt to implement some esolang in Factor
< 1284186766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To get some practice < 1284186787 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey alise < 1284186795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1284186804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1284186809 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1284186812 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night alise < 1284186815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night alise < 1284186847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggestions for notable works of documentation or literature that could be read as part of a future session are greatly appreciated. Comments on a postcard. Do not use while pregnant. All rights reversed. < 1284186851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1284186853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1284186867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it would be a good idea. i can say from experience that underload is pretty easy. < 1284186902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor comes with some parsing vocabulary < 1284187038 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1284187412 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1284187473 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise should do that more often < 1284187605 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284187638 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you are a distinctly creepy individual < 1284188312 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284188499 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning, ais523. in case you care, i just wrote an Underload interpreter in C, and compiled it under AmigaOS 1.3. < 1284188513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1284188525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do care; writing it in C is not the interesting part, compiling it under AmigaOS is < 1284188701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, Esolang now has two FALSE fans called Ian < 1284188705 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed. the code ( http://pastie.org/1151532 ) is quite amateurish, especially in its memory management (although I did attempt to do some "tail call optimization"). I couldn't use the anagolf C implemementation, because DICE C (for AmigaOS) isn't... quite that smart. < 1284188709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is confusing when trying to review recent changes < 1284188717 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1284188727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the anagolf impl crashes on the vast majority of Underload programs < 1284188735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't actually allocate memory, it just uses it and hopes it's free < 1284188744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, that's OK for golfing, but not for regular programming < 1284188746 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. i noticed that. < 1284188759 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boggling at how it could possibly work correctly, rather. < 1284188767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's always a chance... < 1284188810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an Underload in C interp aiming for maximum efficiency sitting on my hard drive atm; I can't remember whether I've shown it to anyone or not < 1284188847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284188965 0 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284188973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1284188973 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284189362 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: why am i creepy? < 1284190317 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey cpressey cpressey < 1284190397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why. < 1284190438 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meta is not an answer. < 1284191627 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284191787 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1284191999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1284192000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1284192336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :eightebed | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1284192374 0 :cheater00!~cheater@p549728AD.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284192602 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1284194531 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1284195211 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1284195557 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284195737 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284196185 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1284196194 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1284198041 0 :Jonty_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1284198797 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1284199593 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1284200642 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284201116 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284201439 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1284201575 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1284202046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284202669 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Wamanuz5 < 1284202674 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Wamanuz < 1284205264 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : btw I genuinely think AnMaster is badass like cpressey is <-- um... thanks I guess < 1284205303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284205346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was it Birmingham or Manchester you lived in? < 1284205366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, perhaps you should write it down, you seem to keep forgetting < 1284205377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you care anyway? < 1284205427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I need a backup for Operation Hatheist! < 1284205625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can't get the hat in Edinburgh, you can get it when it goes through England! < 1284205954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT AIS I NEED YOU < 1284205993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see what I have to do with hat theft... < 1284206373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're ideally placed for it! < 1284206479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1284206989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you have a ready supply of depleted Eucharist? < 1284207007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, although I don't understand the question < 1284207070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just Eucharist that has decayed from pure god-flesh to various, more stable dough. < 1284208082 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1284209669 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284210057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, SCO just appealed. Again. < 1284210083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had two appeals left and used one (they get more if any of the appeals actually go their way...) < 1284210339 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E3193.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284211345 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284211367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284211717 0 :relet!~hirtho@85.52.229.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284212509 0 :er-steppenwolf!~pae@188.106.111.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284212599 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if you can have d/dx(f(x))=f^-1(x)
< 1284212678 0 :er-steppenwolf!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1284212688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem obviously impossible < 1284212711 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284212773 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I can't think for the life of me what it is. < 1284213310 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284213611 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284213781 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284213930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would at least need to have a smaller domain for the function than R. I mean, if you want the function to be differentiable everywhere, it needs to be continuous; and a continuous function is invertible only if it's strictly monotonous; the derivative of a monotonous function is either >0 or <0 everywhere, whereas the inverse function would need to give negative values at least somewhere (assuming R was the domain). < 1284213940 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1284213991 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, awww < 1284214371 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, does anyone know why LyX refuses to work with noweb for me? < 1284214398 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says something about literate-article.layout being missing, but I have no idea what that is. < 1284214498 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nor does Google, annoyingly. < 1284215299 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does noöne have any idea? < 1284216241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284216320 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284216378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, should work for R+ or similar though? < 1284216453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, as for the lyx issue. Is it supposed to work with noweb? As in, has anyone else tried and got it to work? < 1284216467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and: < 1284216469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ locate literate-article.layout < 1284216469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/lyx/layouts/literate-article.layout < 1284216470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284216483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exists on both arch and ubuntu for me < 1284216500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, same. < 1284216510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it mock me like this, then? < 1284216527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue. How are you using it? < 1284216589 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it actually says that literate-article is not usable. < 1284216627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe you are missing some package it needs? < 1284216649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only package it uses is noweb... < 1284216656 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have noweb installed. < 1284216716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284216777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, rerun the system check thingy? < 1284216805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System check thingy? < 1284216817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284216825 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tools → Reconfigure < 1284216828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then restart lyx < 1284216848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disturbingly, though I have the noweb package installed, locate noweb only shows one of LyX's files. < 1284216871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, lyx caches what packages are available on the system. < 1284216881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus if you change that set you need to run that option < 1284216908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it didn't complain this time. < 1284216951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you probably forgot to run the reconfigure option after you installed noweb (assuming you installed lyx before noweb) < 1284216952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't generate DVIs or PDFs. < 1284216971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm why does noweb depend on iconx? < 1284216975 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1284217134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it seems to be working all right now. < 1284217135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1284217137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1284217874 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284217885 0 :lifthrasiir!6d5Q0mBm@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1284217997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284218097 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.247.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284218115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1284218199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, ais523 was here but left < 1284218263 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284218280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:54:08 Disturbingly, though I have the noweb package installed, locate noweb only shows one of LyX's files. < 1284218286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just locate's cached db < 1284218293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should appear shortly < 1284219326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: sidux totally sucks. < 1284219884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks SO MUCH and you should totally defend it by listing everything good about it. < 1284219891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it SUCKS and only AWFUL PEOPLE use it. < 1284221482 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1284221552 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284222483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrmph < 1284223027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Native ZFS for Linux" < 1284223030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/behlendorf/zfs/wiki < 1284223043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME OR AWESOME < 1284223092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/behlendorf/zfs/wiki/faq < 1284223310 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284223674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky Downloads]$ sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb < 1284223679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a scary command to run < 1284223680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1284223695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1284223725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'd make sure I was certain I knew what sdb was connected to before I ran that! < 1284223736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a USB stick! Unless I'm horribly wrong! < 1284223744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, something else! < 1284223747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly important! < 1284223753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exclamation mark. < 1284223772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try dmesg immediately after plugging it in < 1284223777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a good way to check would be to reformat it < 1284223791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mke2fs goes completely crazy if you try to reformat a mounted filesystem < 1284223817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's actually mounted < 1284223819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdb1 that is < 1284223824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be fun, then < 1284223825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably a bad sign < 1284223830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dd is... not doing anything < 1284223839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, use "mount" to check what filesystems are mounted where < 1284223840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I know it's the USB stick; unetbootin just told me that it has files already on it < 1284223846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and named it ARCH(date) < 1284223850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning it's the USB stick with Arch Linux on it < 1284223856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1284223860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :850240000 bytes (850 MB) copied, 225.212 s, 3.8 MB/s < 1284223861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, dd is slow < 1284223864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that dd should have a bs= set? < 1284223873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed... < 1284223874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't, it tries to copy a byte at a time IIRC < 1284223884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any downside to doing bs=sizeofstick count=1? < 1284223889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess maybe it should be a power of two < 1284223906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be the natural block size of the device for best performance < 1284223912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what that is < 1284223916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know what it is for a typical USB controller < 1284223936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky Downloads]$ sudo dd bs=16384 if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb < 1284223938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be fine. < 1284223996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just 4 gigs, sheesh. < 1284224013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking online suggests that for USB drives, it's memory management that's the dd bottleneck rather than the USB controller < 1284224032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently Linux handles all block sizes equally, but Cygwin dd screws up some sizes quite badly (like 4k) < 1284224073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says that the actual physical block size tends to be 64, 128, or 256 KiB < 1284224100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe as much as 512 KiB on newer NAND flashes < 1284224206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky Downloads]$ sudo kill -9 7067 < 1284224206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky Downloads]$ sudo kill -9 7067 < 1284224209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky Downloads]$ < 1284224215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am... scared. < 1284224237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's sort of eso-related, maybe I could mention it here, too: submitted a sqrt(-garfield) strip that's -- in addition to a strip about Garfield taking up painting -- also a Piet program that prints out "Garfield". < 1284224248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <3 < 1284224272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Totally kissing DMM's ass, though. How could he /not/ publish it? < 1284224291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in piet, the size of a colored area was somehow meaningful right? < 1284224298 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of starting the email with something like "there's this programming language called Piet, maybe you've heard of it?", but didn't. < 1284224299 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that it's not just a colored 2d brainfuck < 1284224303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piet is presumably quite easy to steganographically embed in other languages < 1284224306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes, for the "push" command. < 1284224308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, sometimes < 1284224333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are two colors that differ just a bit completely different < 1284224335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So, I have been meaning to ask you: do you have the original Underload compiler anywhere? The one written in Scheme, with the latest prelude.c/postlude.c (was that the filename?) files. < 1284224339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1284224347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on another machine here but I have no idea where and the machine is in a box. < 1284224347 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it so that just a few colors are meaningful < 1284224358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should just open the page < 1284224365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Piet < 1284224365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284224371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*http://esolangs.org/wiki/Piet < 1284224371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think so, let me check < 1284224374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It has a palette of 18 colors, and the spec doesn't define what other colors should do. < 1284224404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know what implementations tend to do, maybe to map to nearest Piet color or something.) < 1284224438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/867u has the "program" (you can barely call it that) in a textual form; it's basically "push everything, then a dup-if-print loop". < 1284224440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: most likely just cry < 1284224451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, do you have a piet compiler? < 1284224468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to Piet, that is < 1284224478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that was just for illustrative purposes. (At least I *think* I didn't write one.) < 1284224495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it seems I have two copies, one in a directory "underload-0", and the other in a directory "underload-olddardcs", which I assume is a typo < 1284224545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, if you could upload both that would be appreciated < 1284224551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps one is the older one before your improvements to the prelude < 1284224557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also http://zem.fi/~fis/pietfield.png and http://zem.fi/~fis/pietfield-trace.png for the strip and npiet's trace pic (with 3x3-pixel codels). < 1284224581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Awesome. < 1284224590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: checked the last-modified dates, they're a day apart < 1284224598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, a lot can change in a day. < 1284224601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should've made it print out "Stupid in Green" though. Oh well. < 1284224614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nah, "Garfield" is better < 1284224624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stupid in Green" feels like repeating yourself < 1284224659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can dd output a status report every so often? < 1284224661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without me manually triggering it < 1284224706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: erm, do you just have the program between two panels? :P < 1284224709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but maybe you can put a bash "kill; sleep;" loop somewhere to trigger it every so often. < 1284224732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The loopy part is there; the push(n) data is mostly in panels, though. < 1284224740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1284224742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I just diffed them, the only difference is that one contains a function void invalid(void) which prints an error message and exits < 1284224763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1284224766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which one contains it? < 1284224769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old one or the new one? < 1284224771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you made a new strip so that it'd be a piet program already. < 1284224779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old one < 1284224789 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i thought maybe garfield painted the program :P) < 1284224801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense, I suppose; if the /only/ difference is the existence of the function, it implies the function isn't called anywhere, at least if they both compile < 1284224804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"look jon, this here is me" < 1284224831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Oh, I couldn't draw my way out of a wet paper bag, so that's just the http://garfield.nfshost.com/2003/10/21/ one. < 1284224869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rest of the image was dumped to Piet palette without dithering, but there's nothing remotely orange-like in it, so I made Garfield himself be dithered. < 1284225084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: odd < 1284225089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there no difference in any other file? < 1284225100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what the compiler spits out for a non-instruction < 1284225104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, in the three files that exist in common to the three directories < 1284225114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1284225122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I have a tar of the new one, then? :) < 1284225157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the new one doesn't contain things like the Makefile < 1284225158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so how then did you get the constants? < 1284225162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I'm sure it's trivial to reconstruct < 1284225178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it calculate the size of a connected area and mod 256 < 1284225180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, can you tar up the other one too? I can probably reconstruct it into one directory < 1284225183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i guess it's easy then < 1284225194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the other one's got mixed with some of my own files < 1284225195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the areas are huge < 1284225206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah; just the Makefile, then? < 1284225234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for this; it sure beats disk archaeology < 1284225238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, neither of them have a makefile it seems < 1284225258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old one seems to have a load of intermediate directories, and a few copies of Underload programs I was using to test < 1284225262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it /is/ a Scheme program. < 1284225270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*intermediate files < 1284225273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, filebin.ca seems to be down atm < 1284225276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are you sure the compiler in the new one doesn't spit out invalid()? < 1284225284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it does, then it won't function correctly on... invalid programs < 1284225285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes, the push() instruction pushes the size of the area it left from (ops are defined as the hue/lightness difference between two consecutive areas); in three cases I used existing huge background blobs, the rest are mostly single-pixel-high color bits outside the black panel border, modified a bit. < 1284225287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the word isn't anywere in the source < 1284225291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright then < 1284225293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1284225299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a relic of a previous version < 1284225308 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It does assume that out(char) outputs just the low 8 bits. I did look up what it would do if out(char) outputs a Unicode codepoint, though, just a sec. < 1284225310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten how ugly the compiler is, so this should be fun :P < 1284225314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, the case statement that compiles commands doesn't have a default case at all < 1284225338 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It will print "Grfild" if you run it in an interpreter that outputs Unicode values. < 1284225338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then it simply ignores invalid commands < 1284225341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an acceptable approach, I suppose < 1284225345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, you're relying on executing invalid commands being undefined behavior < 1284225366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Past me, the author is past me, I have no idea what the hell he was thinking. < 1284225385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: filebin isn't loading; how else should I send it to you? < 1284225403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it's three files and they're all ASCII text, I could just pastebin a shar or something < 1284225411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I like that method, it's nostalgic, I'll do that < 1284225414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shar would be fine. < 1284225420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use another file upload service, but most of them are awful < 1284225431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1284225439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a significant portion of them probably require javascript < 1284225477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: If you have the fonts, that's "Gౡrfiⵥld". < 1284225512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Code2000. < 1284225524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see the latter, but the former is [0C61]. < 1284225595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/raw/1938322 < 1284225606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, pastebin.ca seems to highlight parens inside comments, in shellscript < 1284225621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, TELEGU LETTER VOCALIC LL is quite pretty < 1284225622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://zem.fi/~fis/telegu-ll.png if you just *must* get to see it. < 1284225639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can copy-and-paste unicode characters into Wikipedia's search box to see what they are < 1284225649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does THAT work? < 1284225661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: even systems that can't render them can normally copy-and-paste them correctly < 1284225668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they all have redirects to the appropriate article < 1284225669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1284225681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of some image-based magic that the search box does < 1284225694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps an embedded full-Unicode font with @font-face used as a search box font < 1284225706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like... assuming that Google does OCR on your search query to figure out what you're searching for < 1284225719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a sharbomb, right? < 1284225727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1284225735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I knew it was crazy; I just couldn't think what you meant < 1284225738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even says so in the header, IIRC < 1284225739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great idea, though! < 1284225748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it lists the files, but... < 1284225759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but doesn't list a directory to contain them < 1284225768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: command not foundd5sum < 1284225768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: not verifying md5sums. Consider installing GNU coreutils. < 1284225768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'938322: line 30: syntax error near unexpected token `do < 1284225768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'938322: line 30: `do < 1284225772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess by "sh" it means "bash". < 1284225780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, my sh /is/ bash. < 1284225782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, naughty GNU < 1284225789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even bash doesn't work. < 1284225793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubleyouteeeff? < 1284225805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try extracting it < 1284225816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno why it says '938322; that ' should be a 1 < 1284225821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dos line endings < 1284225830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, aha < 1284225831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably pastebin's fault < 1284225832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works fine here < 1284225835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, agree < 1284225837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*agreed < 1284225841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run it through dtou, then try again < 1284225849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dtou? is that /another/ tool for that? < 1284225871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's so many tools I can never remember what's installed where; then I just "tr -d '\r'" everywhere. < 1284225877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in protest, I will attempt to use cpressey's tool to do it instead < 1284225906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, if I can find it. < 1284225924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's the one DJGPP uses < 1284225942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the platform on which I tend to do the most line-ending conversions, so it sticks in my mind < 1284225948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, it appears to not be on catseye any more < 1284225958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lang was it written in? < 1284225965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl, I think < 1284225978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1284226023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, do you know if the prelude.c has my algorithms or yours? < 1284226028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours being the ones with better performance characteristics < 1284226030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell < 1284226038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1284226109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo underload.scm is ugly < 1284226118 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@91-115-216-128.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1284226146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;; kinda hacky < 1284226149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say. < 1284226185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[-------------[>+>[-]+<<-]>++++++++++++++>[<.>-],]!test1 < 1284226185 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uftu2 < 1284226191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, off-by-one error < 1284226200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[-------------[>+>[-]+<<-]>+++++++++++++>[<.>-],]!test1 < 1284226200 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test1 < 1284226207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity that IRC doesn't let me embed literal character returns < 1284226215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I /think/ that's a working dtou script in Brainfuck < 1284226242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, this would be an awful anagolf puzzle, because anagolf ignores trailing whitespace differences) < 1284226255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1284226263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although anagolf doesn't do \r\n -> \n < 1284226268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the input form, a newline becomes \r\n < 1284226273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you need one, you should upload a file < 1284226276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know < 1284226293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submitted a legit solution to puyo puyo btw; I'm not sure if legit or cheat is shorter < 1284226301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's likely to be quite close < 1284226304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... a maze solver would be a nice problem < 1284226310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's been set already < 1284226322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know because I have a golfed maze solver in my anagolf directory < 1284226324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, you're given an ascii maze, a starting position, and an end position; you have to output hjkl according to the directions < 1284226341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with sufficiently huge mazes and sufficiently many that cheating doesn't help < 1284226352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?maze+solving < 1284226354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output format sucks though < 1284226415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheating? < 1284226427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess for mazes, that would be hardcoding the solution < 1284226432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: solving the problem via hardcoding < 1284226438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much, but with compression techniques < 1284226447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even worse, hardcoding the three possible outputs and picking one at random < 1284226454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < 1284226457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just completely ignoring the input < 1284226462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1284226476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or using pid-setting and $$ < 1284226478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do it even more easily < 1284226482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my solution to http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?big+number+arithmetic ignores the input (it uses $$) < 1284226493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$ ? < 1284226493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's labeled as (cheat) < 1284226502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to be fair, I have no idea what a legit solution to that is /meant/ to look like < 1284226506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: current process PID < 1284226529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I found a nice Perl microgolf optimisation today, btw; < 1284226558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's using special punctuation mark variables like $. for random purposes, rather than $a, etc, simply to avoid having to put a space between two consecutive alphanumerics < 1284226605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another nice one is to rely on the fact that $| can't be increased above 1, but instead trying to set it to a higher positive integer silently sets it to 1 < 1284226624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's $|? < 1284226633 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1284226651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fflushes output whenever it's produced, if set to true < 1284226686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the value has no effect on the eventual output, just on its timing < 1284226702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1284226706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^ < 1284226712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should the time it takes to calculate the next one increase each time? < 1284226717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose yes, with the number format it uses < 1284226753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes if you aren't using RLE or something like that < 1284226768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even practical for a compiler to do that? < 1284226837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :derlo's an interp, and it uses a sort of logarithmic encoding < 1284226853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but interps have more freedom < 1284226853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it hardly matters if you have to execute each individual character in the number to see what it is < 1284226867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I bet derlo is faster than my compiler < 1284226870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need to do some sort of static optimisation to get better than that < 1284226889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's pretty fast, I was aiming for speed (as in fast algorithm, rather than as in cfunge) < 1284226898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap :) < 1284226914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, seriously, how would you zero out a drive? < 1284226917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with a large bs < 1284226921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd takes 70 years, and i have no idea why < 1284226922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you zero out a drive? < 1284226926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know usb sticks are slow, but < 1284226950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to put new stuff on it without the previous partition headers and the like < 1284226953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, it may have been zeroed out < 1284226961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merely by not having any data after the first N bytes already zeroed < 1284226976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it may have already been zeroed out < 1284226980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1284226995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with having the old headers; surely they should be in uninited data and thus never read < 1284227005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like you don't have to zero out the heap in a C program before mallocing from it < 1284227007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unetbootin was complaining. >_> < 1284227028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, if i zero out a drive, should i just rm the /dev/sdXN files? < 1284227082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems that on fibo10, at least (a base 10 fibonacci program), underload.scm is about twice as fast as derlo < 1284227104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit less than twice, actually < 1284227119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, base10.ul < 1284227127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I actually ran, I wasn't paying attention... < 1284227135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You should make it rescan the partition table, but I forget exactly how. It's some ioctl, fdisk will do it for you. < 1284227147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then udev'll handle the devices.) < 1284227178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, although I'm using an old binary, and apparently it contains calls to invalid() < 1284227180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boggle
< 1284227180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to write a partition table. < 1284227192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to create the filesystem directly on the drive. < 1284227198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what gcc flags? and wtf! < 1284227207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can write an empty table. < 1284227215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then dump a filesystem on top of that. < 1284227219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know, I used the binary that was sitting around in the directory rather than recompiling < 1284227220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: true, then mkwhatever will overwrite it < 1284227226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, i see < 1284227237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-O3 is fun, although it usually never terminates < 1284227252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm guessing it was a pretty high optimisation level < 1284227268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem with the compiler is its function data structure < 1284227284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ideally, it'd be written in assembly, and concatenating would actually copy the second function's machine code on to the end of the first < 1284227287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like < 1284227306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about using Forth/FORTH? < 1284227307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, with invalid(the_char) in assembly you could avoid storing strings < 1284227309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is it an acronym?) < 1284227315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just convert the code back to characters < 1284227330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably pointless, as far as I can tell, although not entirely < 1284227331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an acronym < 1284227335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth is the non-irritating way to say it < 1284227338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTH is just the filename relic < 1284227351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along the lines of me insisting that the computer game is called ADVENT? < 1284227358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is about as annoying as someone saying LISP < 1284227363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in a way, yes < 1284227377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically, the name would be Fourth, but. < 1284227382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(limited filename lengths) < 1284227401 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LisP < 1284227437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Scheme, it would be Lis? < 1284227449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ending questions with a p is an oldfashioned relic < 1284227466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's case-insensitive, so it'd be lIs? too < 1284227469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and LIS? < 1284227496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lIs? is good for confusing people whose fonts don't distinguish the character < 1284227501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I'm not certain what I need to install to get mkfs.(msdos|vat) < 1284227503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as bad as the Ill status change in NetHack < 1284227504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*vfat < 1284227506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which looks like III in some fonts < 1284227511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1284227514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lll < 1284227516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a serifed font < 1284227528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's installed on my system < 1284227532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be quite an odd l that looked like a capital serifed I < 1284227550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I normally do is, I run which first to make sure the command isn't installed < 1284227554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it isn't, I try to run it < 1284227561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then command-not-found kicks in and tells me which package it's in < 1284227565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on Arch it doesn't < 1284227577 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you don't use Dejavu Sans Mono? < 1284227588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: monospace for /IRC/? < 1284227597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *hi5* < 1284227602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Bitstream Charter < 1284227603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's common, but I can't see any reason why you'd do that except to make myndzi's /o/ thing work properly < 1284227607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was referring to NetHack
< 1284227618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm using the same font for IRC too >.> < 1284227621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant on IRC, "III" misrepresents what I'd see. < 1284227621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I know it's common, but I can't see any reason why you'd do that except to make myndzi's \o/ thing work properly < 1284227637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use DVSM for NetHack, definitely < 1284227640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Charter is wonderful on low-dpi displays (it was invented for 300 dpi laser printers), but the / is a bit wide. < 1284227660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A lot of people have their IRCs in a terminal, which is a good reason to do monospace. < 1284227660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Luxi Mono quite a bit for code, although haven't got it set up. < 1284227664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, DejaVu Sans Mono and Menlo are even more similar than Arial and Helvetica < 1284227670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a nice legible serif, except monospaced < 1284227678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because the latter is openly based on the former < 1284227685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is basically a minor tweak of the former < 1284227686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common ancestor, I thought < 1284227688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1284227706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally, Menlo is just DVSM with one or two tiny lines moved < 1284227710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*two lines moved tinily < 1284227722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://static.arstechnica.net/apple/menlo_v_dejavu_sans_mono_300.png < 1284227728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exact differences, as rendered by OS X < 1284227729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1284227729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1284227732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slight common ancestor < 1284227736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitstream Vera Sans Mono < 1284227752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but DejaVu is identical to Bitstream if Bitstream already had the character, I think < 1284227758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it shouldn't matter for ascii < 1284227790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.leancrew.com/all-this/images/dejavu-menlo-colors.png bigger version < 1284227797 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284227847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkfs.vfat: Device partition expected, not making filesystem on entire device '/dev/sdb' (use -I to override) < 1284227850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're so boring, mkfs.vfat. < 1284227863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an override option < 1284227876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mkfs generally likes a partition to reformat, rather than bare metal < 1284227922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i overrode it < 1284227929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but on USB drives there's little point to partitioning, really < 1284227930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or bare metalloid. < 1284227957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go, Debian testing installer jibbering on to the drive < 1284227962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I've seen USB drives with multiple partitions before now < 1284227962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but that's mere preference is all. < 1284227964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth taking a look at, I figure < 1284227972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No technical reason for a partition table at all. < 1284227989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are there not OSes which won't try to mount the whole partition automatically? < 1284227999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be surprised if a zero-partition USB stick mounted in Windows < 1284228015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how preformatted USB sticks usually ship, isn't it? < 1284228019 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< alise> i was thinking of some image-based magic that the search box does <-- there is a java(?) applet somewhere that lets you search for TeX codes by scrawling the output character < 1284228028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: javascript < 1284228035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called detexify < 1284228041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html < 1284228153 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< alise> in protest, I will attempt to use cpressey's tool to do it instead <-- yaeolc? it's in the catseye.tc archive. < 1284228178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't it use to be on the site? < 1284228184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*used, perhaps; such a strange idiom < 1284228266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Richard Dawkins and David Attenborough interviewing each other] < 1284228267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which living scientist do you most admire, and why? < 1284228268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RD: David Attenborough. < 1284228268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DA: I don't know. < 1284228270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SNAP < 1284228313 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< ais523> then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < ais523> and just completely ignoring the input <-- some people live their entire lives this way, i reckon < 1284228333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep. :p < 1284228350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to wipe my entire system and put something new on yet again < 1284228351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote < ais523> then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < ais523> and just completely ignoring the input <-- some people live their entire lives this way, i reckon < 1284228359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need more philosophy to balance out the crudeness < 1284228374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht, we aren't crude! we're really crude! < 1284228378 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :220| < ais523> then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < ais523> and just completely ignoring the input <-- some people live their entire lives this way, i reckon < 1284228382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHA HackEgo WILL NOT COMPLY WI-- oh. < 1284228387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1284228390 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :167| like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English alise: that's great filler ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language... < 1284228397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1284228399 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :148| Why are the cops in GTA always so obsessed with my asshole? < 1284228401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1284228402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love 167 < 1284228403 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :158| Darn, now I can't acknowledge the reference you were making. < 1284228414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a rule of thumb, all the quotes from Sine are rubbish < 1284228422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the ones from here are either incomprehensible or good < 1284228431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did Sine quotes end up in HackEgo's qdb? < 1284228444 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< alise> ais523: to put new stuff on it without the previous partition headers and the like <-- then you only have to zero out the partition table i think. this would also be kinder on the lifespan of the flash memory... < 1284228461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hackego is also in sine < 1284228464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, was < 1284228467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284228474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1284228475 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12| Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? not yet trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence < 1284228480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: eh, flash memory has a great lifespan < 1284228486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it only ends up read-only; you never lose data < 1284228500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence ;; this is just a ripoff of oklopol saying this about torture >:| < 1284228502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1284228504 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :89| What else is there to vim besides editing commands? < 1284228849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders what a syntax that wouldn't play nice with Factor's peg.ebnf vocab would look like
< 1284228864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has trouble imagining it :/
< 1284228874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still want to make such an esolang < 1284228878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how does it do on INTERCAL's? < 1284228893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really remember INTERCAL's syntax :/ < 1284228894 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yaeolc is still on the site, it's just in the 'archive' section, along with all else I don't care about < 1284228920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm vaguely worried that I expanded that acronym right off < 1284229048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the most convoluted converter i've ever seen < 1284229085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284229098 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? yet another... < 1284229109 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it handles CRCRLF, baby! < 1284229122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what does it convert it /into/? < 1284229124 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll never know how those got IN those files, but they did < 1284229124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if he should use peg.ebnd for Underload
< 1284229136 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whatever perl thinks the proper EOL sequence for the current OS is < 1284229136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enbf < 1284229139 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ebnf < 1284229140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1284229159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uh, no. < 1284229170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless it's really easy. < 1284229176 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sg "Overkill" eo < 1284229177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL's syntax doesn't work properly as EBNF for several reasons < 1284229184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to attempt a reboot. < 1284229191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Sir Gay "Overkill" Oh < 1284229198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FTFY < 1284229199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if you do some preprocessing so that it does, it fails to be LR(n) for any finite n < 1284229207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember someone saying that this wasn't really limited to EBNF < 1284229211 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about that though < 1284229217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's utterly trivial to parse < 1284229226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what is? < 1284229228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I now have a perverse wish to make that Underload->asm compiler. < 1284229230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Underload is. < 1284229237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Underload < 1284229239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1284229247 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make two versions < 1284229254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1284229258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a really good parser-generator, though, would be able to do Underload even more simply than a hand-rolled parser < 1284229259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a would be: < 1284229261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn how to deal with balanced parens someday < 1284229268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generate a prelude that pushes the stuff that comes after it < 1284229274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then cat the top element of the stack on to it < 1284229291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* would obviously just be either putting a jmp at the end of the first one, or copying the code from the second onto the end of the first < 1284229299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ is easy, just a jmp < 1284229326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S would traverse the instructions, converting the asm back into the relevant characters < 1284229331 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, you're right. you could do it "right in" the parser generator, if the generator knew a few extra tricks. maybe Zz would be a good match for that. < 1284229340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(invalid instructions would be compiled to some sort of error call that includes the instruction character) < 1284229344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so you could convert that back) < 1284229349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... that's it, really < 1284229350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1284229356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :security features of processors would fuck with this < 1284229358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eh < 1284229360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well, my OIL to C compiler is written entirely in yacc (or alternatively bison) < 1284229371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, the EBNF parsing thign can execute code as it parses, but I plan on not doing anything interesting with that < 1284229377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do this "right" in some weird way < 1284229378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lex involved, no separate C files (although there's a lot of C embedded in the epilog) < 1284229419 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I should clarify -- my thought was to write an Underload *interpreter* in a (slightly modified) parser generator. < 1284229434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm; IIRC yacc can't do loops < 1284229436 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly modified to be able to restart itself < 1284229458 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most, yes, it would never occur to most parser generator authors to include this feature, but < 1284229458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvious solution: add continuations to C, use call/cc inside the yacc action code and generate loops that way < 1284229464 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zz can do it, I bet < 1284229494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yacc's action code is also pretty much just textually substituted in, I'm sure you could take an axe to the internals to make it "work". < 1284229612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the old trick of using unmatched brackets in triggers in the Age of Mythology map builder in order to inject code into the intermediate representation it uses to handle all the map logic? < 1284229633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a parser generator for Underload is worthwhile only if it's this easy from inside the language: < 1284229633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1152283.txt?key=wdchp9xjc6oqcpx4byptha < 1284229650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with a few flags in the parse call can give "expected X but got Y" messages with line and column numbers < 1284229721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I will proceed to mess up my system. See you soon! < 1284229728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, beforehand, quick! < 1284229744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Give me an opinion on KDE vs GNOME that is /not/ based in logic, fact, or any other kind of reasonability. < 1284229767 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< cpressey> slightly modified to be able to restart itself <-- maybe one that handles #include ? < 1284229771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strlen("GNOME") > strlen("KDE"). < 1284229782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm more used to Gnome and last time I tried to use KDE, it was broken loads of ways and couldn't even load a configuration screen < 1284229786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: You're not ais523! How can I trust you? < 1284229795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fizzie: < 1284229796 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't < 1284229799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's based in logic and fact. < 1284229799 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUHAHA < 1284229804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am disappointed. < 1284229812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: On the other hand, I didn't even tell you which was better, so you can take it both ways. < 1284229866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the joke is that my statement wasn't an opinion, but an actual fact < 1284229878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: DRAT! Foiled again! < 1284229883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although one designed to be very biased, to the extent that the fact almost becomes an opinion based on what's included in it < 1284229884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just install twm. < 1284229890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO LONG SUCKERS < 1284229895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284230110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1284230187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turning Underload commands into tokens might not be a great idea unless I could recursively parse.. < 1284230190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I can, I guess < 1284230224 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284230228 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-47.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1284230303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how does valgrind actually work? I get the impression that it interprets the machine code. But why does it then mess with LD_PRELOAD and such? Hm... < 1284230304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of parser doesn't do recursion? < 1284230341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um a HQ9+ one wouldn't need to < 1284230343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're lucky alise isn't here, or she'd be laughing at you for weeks < 1284230347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be purely iterative < 1284230354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you don't parse HQ9+, you lex it < 1284230358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parsing step is entirely redundant < 1284230364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm true < 1284230449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, at interpretation time < 1284230451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can < 1284230475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw I did HQ9+ in file(1) magic recently + a wrapper shell script to munch the source in advance. Not sure if you saw that < 1284230483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well me and fizzie did rather < 1284230486 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like pedantically pointing out that the literally meanings of "parse" and "lexically analyze" are only linked to particular formal language concepts (like recursiveness) by convention. < 1284230492 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*literal < 1284230505 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a strong convention, i admit < 1284230511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should learn the difference between parsing and lexing
< 1284230516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: arguably, the distinction between parser and lexer is convention anyway < 1284230516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file(1) is so limited that it can't even do the Q command without pre-processing the source < 1284230560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. in C-INTERCAL, the lexer is responsible for matching closing grouping marks (the parse handles the open grouping marks) < 1284230624 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and lexers traditionally handle comments (which sometimes nest) because they can appear anywhere in the source (and that would lead to a very messy grammar) < 1284230642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What _is_ the distinction? < 1284230687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, conventionally then < 1284230689 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's actually quite rare to see a[i/*hi*/]=/*hey*/x+/*yo*/y; < 1284230710 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: parsers work on grammars. specified in BNF or EBNF, usually < 1284230740 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexers, on the other hand, just splits up the input into 'words' (tokens) < 1284230748 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parser consumes the tokens produced by the lexer < 1284230779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor's peg.ebnf has definable tokenizer for some reason < 1284230781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe to be clearer: a parser follows a grammar. < 1284230805 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: then it includes a lexer. many parsing frameworks do. (Parsec does, for instance) < 1284230823 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tokenizer, lexer: same thing. < 1284230845 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka "scanner" -- I learned that term and tend to use it, but it's fallen out of fashion I think. < 1284230884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scanner" sounds an order of magnitude more sci-fi than "lexer". < 1284230961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia's ridiculous parser generator comparison table -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_parser_generators -- has a "Lexer" column, a simple eyeball-uniq says the possible values are none/external/internal/generated/?. < 1284230978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: isn't that an eyeball-sort-uniq? < 1284230992 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall argue that "scanner" is a tribute to David Cronenberg. Because it's only proper that an esolang should make your head explode. < 1284230994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Right. < 1284230995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uniq will repeat values if there's a different value in between < 1284231020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or eyeball-cut-sort-uniq, but that's getting ridiculous. < 1284231199 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.247.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284231258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have any idea how hard getting the squeeze installer onto a USB stick is? < 1284231260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1284231269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1284231277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blargh* < 1284231307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:39:03 you're lucky alise isn't here, or she'd be laughing at you for weeks < 1284231311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CANNOT ESCAPE < 1284231323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't be very hard. < 1284231378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: first, you have to download the daily CD image. then, you have to download the daily boot.img.gz, which is in a directory called hd-media, and not obviously marked as for USB images < 1284231387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you have to zcat boot.image.gz to the drive < 1284231389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you have to mount it < 1284231393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you have to copy the ISO there < 1284231408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, if you did this on a partition on the stick, not the stick itself, you have to install a program to put a new MBR on the stick < 1284231422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not hugely difficult, but it's certainly not obvious at all < 1284231431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought it's usually just "zcat boot.img.gz > /dev/sdX" and "install from network". < 1284231437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you match, say, the squeeze alpha installer with the nightly boot.img.gz, it doesn't work < 1284231438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just nice < 1284231451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, I copied the netinstall ISO < 1284231458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure /exactly/ what that provides, but it sure scans for one < 1284231464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably there is a good reason for copying it there < 1284231496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be so. I thought they had at some point a single "stick this into stick and it has the netinst stuff in it" image, but based on current debian-installer image sizes, maybe not. < 1284231515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt lexer vs parser: for an awful lot of languages, I think there's no point writing them separately < 1284231535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complex languages with a lot of fancy multi-character tokens, maybe. but even then, there's little gained in writing TO rather than '=>' < 1284231548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can sort out whitespace and comments for you, and you basically need one if you do indentation-based grouping < 1284231550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that... < 1284231739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Perhaps they do for stable. < 1284231742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you know, stable. < 1284231759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even like Debian much, I'm just a bit sick of Arch not working nicely with GNOME in subtle ways. < 1284231931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's Try That Again. < 1284231936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284231959 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284232298 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284232634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noncommands should only appear in parens, right? < 1284232675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Huh. The UI on my phone just crashed. Gah. < 1284232719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if they appear outside, the program will necessarily crash unless there's an infinite loop before they're reached < 1284232727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think that means they're banned, they're just a bad idea < 1284232747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1284232757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I'm writing it, it won't parse :/ < 1284232839 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What noncommands? < 1284232873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Underload < 1284232914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and then you can send to output or discard it from the stack < 1284233168 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You can always execute it from the stack, though, so you'll still have to handle them somehow. < 1284233192 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, trying to execute a string containing noncommands, from the stack, could result in a parse error. < 1284233193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, the parse error will occur in the middle of running the program :/ < 1284233201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you parse strings as you pop them. < 1284233205 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you trying to write a compiler? Or parser? Or...? < 1284233213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter < 1284233226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That uses Factor's EBNF parser vocab < 1284233240 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just interpret each character as reading, when using interpreting of Underload (and for some others) < 1284233262 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, you'd get a parse error in the middle of the program; nothing really wrong with that though, it's actually kind of cool. :) < 1284233298 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in QBASIC, it is possible to get a syntax error during runtime, if you use the ERROR command. But, this is different. < 1284233341 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, couldn't QBASIC load and parse external BASIC files at runtime? Possibly I'm thinking of AmigaBASIC. < 1284233374 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes, QBASIC can do that, using CHAIN command, that means it will then parse the loaded file < 1284233394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can also create syntax error at runtime using ERROR command, without loading another file < 1284233441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In GWBASIC you can do CHAIN MERGE which might be used if you prompt the user for entering a command (such as a graph equation) < 1284233603 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I once used this technique for exactly that, a graphing program: saved the formula to a text file in the RAM disk, then included it as if it were a BASIC program... < 1284233623 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AmigaBASIC and QBASIC were almost identical, both being from Microsoft. < 1284233707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm.. not sure I see how to do recursive rules < 1284233791 0 :alise!~alies@91.104.247.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284233797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian installer hello < 1284233820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's going to take 67 years to download everything < 1284233852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by 67 i of course mean 20 minutes) < 1284233866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I don't need to < 1284233870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, 40 minutesnow, apparently < 1284233877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian time is even worse than Microsoft time < 1284233886 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since parens don't necessarily contain valid code < 1284233905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo -- usually, you don't even pre-parse Underload. < 1284233913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I want to! < 1284233935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A highly pointless endeavour unless you are writing a compiler. < 1284233967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practice for writing more esolang interpreters! < 1284233975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dearly hope not. < 1284233981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1284234001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are enough already, unless there is some novelty beyond being written in Factor. < 1284234015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, *most* esolangs aren't pre-parsed. < 1284234061 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284234098 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to #tarpits < 1284234111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1284234121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does ^ look like for you guys? < 1284234125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A caret? < 1284234128 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: caret < 1284234128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wareya_: well, pretty much... < 1284234134 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION eats the caret
< 1284234134 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caret < 1284234135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the test line, Sgeo. < 1284234143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like test < 1284234149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "testabc"? < 1284234154 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284234155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1284234156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just test < 1284234157 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"test" < 1284234168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then either freenode's server disregards everything after a 0 byte, or your clients do (because of using C strings) < 1284234177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does clog say? < 1284234178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the former, but it would be fun if it was the latter < 1284234188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could hide messages from certain people :P < 1284234191 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly the former < 1284234192 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that to deny format attacks? < 1284234195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, all I have is busybox. < 1284234205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised it even has nc built in. < 1284234228 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284234235 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-47.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1284234251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would find it funny if alise would only be able to use this to show messages to Vorpal
< 1284234288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you check clog? < 1284234290 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you're nc'ing in? < 1284234296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably written in C though or something < 1284234301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: indeed. < 1284234318 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: just 'test' in clog. < 1284234331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only inconvenience is typing "PRIVMSG #esoteric :" a lot, and getting my lines interrupted when someone else sends a message :) < 1284234338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, uh, everything else, but those are the major ones. < 1284234347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly I should use zzo38's client. < 1284234379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not often you hear recent Radiohead coming out of a car on the street... < 1284234433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish debian-installer would decide how long it'll take to install already. < 1284234463 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am suffering from severe information overload. < 1284234474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get that. < 1284234494 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... that's abundantly clear. < 1284234510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, their car stereo sucks. < 1284234530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They appear to have made it so bassy that you can't actually hear the guitar. < 1284234571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1284234603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't even sound bassy though. Just like they remixed it and took out the guitar track. < 1284234633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you still use Gentoo? < 1284234644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you didn't, I'd probably try out whatever distro you are using. :P < 1284234651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't, don't, whatever. < 1284234692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should include Tetris on the installer image so that you can entertain yourself while it installs. < 1284234727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vi: not found" < 1284234745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal still has alise in notlistentotion? < 1284234776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, I do. < 1284234788 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://codu.org/rawirc.c :P < 1284234792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you mean /ignore? < 1284234813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: eagerly awaiting an nc-downloadable gcc binary < 1284234824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bah! < 1284234826 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes < 1284234843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i figured it's clearer that way < 1284234843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not afaik, he just does it to seem like he's making a point and then takes it off within hours < 1284234853 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1284234859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If freenode's doing the "standard" thing, messages can contain any sequence of octets not including 0, 10 or 13. < 1284234862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know where i got the impression < 1284234867 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something i read in the log < 1284234869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I find that racist. < 1284234882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that may just be dimwittedness >:) < 1284234910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sgeo said something like alise could do X to show messages to Vorpal, maybe it was about something completely and utterly else. < 1284234916 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something completely < 1284234941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The NUL character is not special in message framing, and basically could end up inside a parameter, but as it would cause extra complexities in normal C string handling. Therefore NUL is not allowed within messages." Interesting grammar there. < 1284234942 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny how i'm so damn pedantic about writing correct english, but at the same time i use incorrect words for fun all the time < 1284234997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, who uses C < 1284235000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one < 1284235008 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1284235011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone's IRC server is C. < 1284235019 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, mine was python < 1284235022 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use C to hack old video games < 1284235045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1284235051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it was that if the NUL byte only ended a message because of clients using C strings, and the server passed it on, then a client that could handle it could see the part of a message after a NUL byte < 1284235051 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is fun times < 1284235053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal still has alise in notlistentotion? <-- um no < 1284235078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Sgeo or someone thought it would be hilarious if this only meant I could send messages to Vorpal, meaning his client would be the only one that wouldn't cut off after a NUL < 1284235083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah alise told me already, I GUESS YOU COULDN'T SEE THAT.... < 1284235092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, as the server cuts it off there, this is not the case. < 1284235095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I didn't bother reading all the scrollback :P < 1284235095 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT would be an exploit if the server didn't chop after the nul byte < 1284235098 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1284235099 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It* < 1284235106 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i didn't exactly read the stuff around it < 1284235106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is it likely that Vorpal would be the only one using a certain client, and that Vorpal's client would be the only unbroken one. < 1284235111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I only read the highlights < 1284235123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oklopol how has your day been? Vorpal < 1284235131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine's been great! Vorpal < 1284235138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, very funnt < 1284235139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny* < 1284235142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's been rather empty, but yesterday a 15yo chick told me i'm pretty sexy < 1284235146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of nowhere < 1284235156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1284235164 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1284235177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind hasn't fully adjusted to the reality of being 15 yet < 1284235190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it auto-heuristically-categorises people who are 15 as older than me < 1284235191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? nul on irc? < 1284235198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTFContext < 1284235199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that the server will pass that on at all < 1284235218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, apparently it doesn't. < 1284235234 0 :MigoMipo!~John@scandic841.host.songnetworks.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1284235237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've mostly been studying japanese, it's soooooo much easier than math < 1284235239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why on earth would it do that at all? < 1284235255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is too hard, i'm thinking maybe i should become a bartender < 1284235256 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who can be sure of anything in this wack-a-day modern world of ours? < 1284235263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oklopol, I've been thinking, about that bet, how about we fix 50 pounds as whatever it was worth in GBP when the bet was made < 1284235271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the amount can't fluctuate < 1284235271 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no. < 1284235285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, why couldn't the new world order have concealed the recession? < 1284235293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you wouldn't have seen right through me :| < 1284235311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey single digits installation time in minutes, that's progress < 1284235315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when do you turn 16? < 1284235324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : math is too hard, i'm thinking maybe i should become a bartender <-- I thought you loved math? < 1284235325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bet is for 17 as far as I am aware. < 1284235329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1284235338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i turn 17 in slightly less than two years < 1284235351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well otherwise all it'd signify is "I didn't break the law!" < 1284235358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the best odds really < 1284235364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i also love being the evil dictator of a country < 1284235379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That country... is Canada. < 1284235380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hey single digits installation time in minutes, that's progress <-- as opposed to it taking longer or it being expressed in some unsuitable unit? < 1284235384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Finland sucks) < 1284235391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I can immediately see how this new vocation combines your two loves. < 1284235394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: take a guess < 1284235399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the former probably. < 1284235406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: congratulations. < 1284235411 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I seem to remember the latter too. For some old software < 1284235422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that didn't expect that the installation could take less than an hour < 1284235423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo 6 minutes. is GNOME fucking huge or does Debian just install a whole load of crap anyway? < 1284235432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu takes like .00001% of the time to install < 1284235440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /it/ has GNOME... < 1284235462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284235463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1284235470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it's a netinstall, but I'm counting the Ubuntu download time too < 1284235480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried to get my gf to have sex with you, but she wasn't particularly interested < 1284235481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the non-netinstall Debian is something like 12 CDs. < 1284235482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, better mirror for ubuntu maybe? < 1284235509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mirrorservice.org; I also tried the Swedish mirror. basically same results < 1284235519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They get good speeds. < 1284235535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i can't believe it and am going to commit suicide now < 1284235540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame airline food < 1284235547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dogs < 1284235560 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm that's good news for you < 1284235562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, same mirror for ubuntu and debian? < 1284235590 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should I draw the control graphics for WEBMATH? < 1284235595 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's illegal for ppl under 17 to have sex?` < 1284235602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucking retarded < 1284235606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah but I don't like having 50 pounds < 1284235612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1284235613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :money is materialistic and makes me sad man < 1284235617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's 16 < 1284235624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm right < 1284235631 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have drawn a down arrow for '\n' but perhaps it can be improved and made differently, too, and then make the other control graphics, too, such as '\r' and so on < 1284235632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still fucking retarded < 1284235632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: both get the same speeds (800 KiB/s) < 1284235638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, weird then < 1284235659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe because the Ubuntu is one HTTP request, but Debian is thousands of them due to being netinstall < 1284235666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, HTTP overhead isn't /that/ excessive < 1284235692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't think it uses persistent HTTP, if it is aptitude or similar. < 1284235693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's like 38 in America < 1284235700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's debian-installer < 1284235709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue how it downloads stuff < 1284235713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has its own stuff. < 1284235713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be wget for all I know < 1284235720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it downloads everything first. no, no wget < 1284235723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284235732 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, yeah http overhead shouldn't be that large < 1284235737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably some HTTP downloading library built in < 1284235746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to save on space. there are no HTTP clients in /bin or /usr/bin < 1284235754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not even fetch? < 1284235770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. it's a BusyBox thing, not even vi < 1284235781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it does have nano, presumably since it's easier to use at first < 1284235784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well busybox has a built in http client iirc < 1284235793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's not built. just like BusyBox vi < 1284235795 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no of course not wget. wget would be a known quantity < 1284235799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile time option of course < 1284235806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :269 KiB busybox < 1284235816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wat. < 1284235846 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: gotta be some weirdo http client lib, as you said. < 1284235857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: dude, this thing is meant to fit on tiny tiny disks :) < 1284235859 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it has netcat, just use headerless HTTP for simple download < 1284235865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not THAT tiny, but < 1284235865 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's probably fetching from Australia or something. < 1284235866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, on floppies? < 1284235871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought it was still an ISO < 1284235873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: uh, you select the mirror < 1284235889 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you get the *impression* that you select the mirror... < 1284235891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, yes, but it has to fit all the big stuff on. and it isn't CD-sized; it's 100 MiB or so < 1284235903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right < 1284235917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I had to download a bit more to make it work on a USB stick. cpressey: I'm pretty sure those download lines in the log are accurate. < 1284235931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it report download speed while downloading? < 1284235950 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, maybe it is slower now. Like, network problems somewhere < 1284235964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's done now. but no; however, I know my internet is fine. and I tried two mirrors, both of which always get good speeds on my connection < 1284235976 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gopher protocol is also simple. I think there is also TFTP, although I don't know much about TFTP. And then there are a lot of other protocols, it depends what you want to do < 1284235979 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's lame. case closed! < 1284235980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /was/ downloading over a thousand files. HTTP overhead is probably it. < 1284235988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Completely true and... irrelevant. < 1284236003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right < 1284236050 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you omit the HTTP/1.1 from the HTTP request it will operate without headers, in case you need to do that < 1284236051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
 < 1284236074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when has google starting showing search results when you type!? < 1284236084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool i fucked up my terminal < 1284236093 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1284236093 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 
  
 < 1284236145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if it closes connection in between (non-persistent http) it might also include tcp handshake overhead < 1284236152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is the RTT to the mirror? < 1284236153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apkasdk-34k-0k ===-rl < 1284236164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ajajaj? OIdfjosdnfawerkjvflk. Masdofisjgoj. < 1284236173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's called "Google Instant", apparently. < 1284236178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s is an underscore, t is >-! < 1284236187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WHAT FUN DERIVES FROM BROKEN TERMINALS. < 1284236196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU TALK IN UPPERCASE I CAN READ IT. < 1284236214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any way to turn it off? It seems to make my browser pause handling input while it fetches stuff. Sometimes < 1284236216 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1284236216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALTHOUGH . IS A DOWNWARDS ARROW... < 1284236227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaa < 1284236241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There should be a "Instant is on" next to the input field, above the "Safesearch is off/on" toggle. < 1284236265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah indeed... < 1284236269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST LIKE THE 80S. < 1284236273 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my computer the instant search and stuff is off < 1284236274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 IS A SOLID BLOCK. < 1284236310 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't usually use the search box anyways, I can use C-l :g (which is a shortcut) < 1284236312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12345678900- < 1284236313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is like the 80s? < 1284236317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIEE. < 1284236320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google without instant search? < 1284236330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's about his terminal woes. < 1284236330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CANNOT SEE A SINGLE THING alise < 1284236333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284236336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so my name looks like alise < 1284236340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, try typing reset < 1284236343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1284236353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise -- shaded block, >- box drawing (low), i, underscore, e < 1284236361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then , is a left arrow < 1284236369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"alise:" or "alise," < 1284236374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you on the computer with the problems? < 1284236375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but please, use upercase. then i can read it < 1284236377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1284236379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on irc with it < 1284236382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise i can't < 1284236382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with a different one < 1284236396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE THIS < 1284236397 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, PLEASE TRY USING RESET (IN LOWER CASE) < 1284236404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If I've been following right, it's netcat-IRC from a Debian installer session. < 1284236409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VRPAL: (OKAY HOW DO I DO ) THAT < 1284236411 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1284236414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITHOUT QUITTING NC? < 1284236422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DID IT BY ENTERING A LOT OF CONTROL CODES AND THE SERVER ECHOED THEM BACK < 1284236438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPECIFICALLY, ^ FOLLOWED BY EACH OF QWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNM < 1284236438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, TRICKY WITHOUT EXITING NC THOUGHT YOU HAD SHELL < 1284236450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO BUT THIS IS TOO FUN TO QUIT. ^^ THOSE ARE THE CHARACTERS THAT DID IT < 1284236451 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: BACKGROUND IT WITH CTRL-Z IF IT HAPPENS TO WORK? < 1284236461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALISE: YOUR OWN FAULT I WOULD SAY < 1284236461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY I HAVE NO RESET PROGRAM < 1284236466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANY OTHER IDEAS? < 1284236485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR STTY < 1284236492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODAY IS NOT A GOOD DAY < 1284236496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, CHROOT INTO THE INSTALL AND USE IT'S RESET < 1284236507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VORPAL: IT HASN'T EVEN FINISHED INSTALLING YET! < 1284236512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: LINUX CONSOLE FAQ CLAIMS THAT ESC FOLLOWED BY LOWERCASE C CAUSES A TERMINAL RESET. < 1284236520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: TO QUOTE: "THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT IF YOUR SCREEN IS ALL GARBLED". < 1284236524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1284236526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, WELL MAYBE IT HAS RESET ALREADY EVEN IF NOTHING ELSE < 1284236533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks fizzie < 1284236537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that worked? < 1284236538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1284236539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you say Vorpal? < 1284236540 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284236545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where did you find that list? < 1284236558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? on which line? < 1284236564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 'twas from http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Keyboard-and-Console-HOWTO.html via google. < 1284236567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: last message before I said thanks fizzie < 1284236581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, CHROOT INTO THE INSTALL AND USE IT'S RESET alise, WELL MAYBE IT HAS RESET ALREADY EVEN IF NOTHING ELSE < 1284236585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, were the two last ones < 1284236594 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< zzo38> If you omit the HTTP/1.1 from the HTTP request it will operate without headers, in case you need to do that <-- Weird! Is this widely supported? I don't remember anything about it in RFC 2616. < 1284236614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that is /definitely/ not standard < 1284236618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I know I used top from inside a partial install to figure out what was going on < 1284236625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I couldn't find it, anyway, what with ls(1)'s output being unreadable < 1284236636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I've used it, always assuming it is some sort of pre-standardization HTTP thing. < 1284236640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you would need to chroot, since reset reads termcap data < 1284236670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have chroot. :P < 1284236677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's installing Gnash. < 1284236697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW running NAMES without an argument is a bad idea. < 1284236707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes I did chroot and top on when investigating that slow kernel install when doing the opengenera vm < 1284236735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, presumably it returns all non-invisible users? < 1284236738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could have just done "chroot /foo top" < 1284236747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes Vorpal, but also on channels too < 1284236752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one channel per line < 1284236757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1284236759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284236767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finishes quickly if you switch to another terminal < 1284236790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, expected. linux VTs are not very fast at printing out a lot of data < 1284236798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not when actively displayed < 1284236804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: From HTTP/1.0 spec: "If the protocol version is not specified, the recipient must assume that the message is in the simple HTTP/0.9 format." < 1284236814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: They seem to have removed that bit from the HTTP/1.1 spec, though. < 1284236817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1284236824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1284236845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, just do sleep 2 && time dmesg (and switch to another terminal during those 2 seconds, then wait a few seconds and switch back) < 1284236848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that means that HTTP 1.0 specifies how to handle a non-HTTP 1.0 request < 1284236856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do the same without switching < 1284236860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as silly as the XML standard saying you must die on invalid data; you can't legislate non-XML! you're the XML spec! < 1284236899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, actually it seems pretty reasonable for backward compat when it comes to the HTTP/0.9 stuff < 1284236909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the XML stuff is... not very reasonable < 1284236915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's still nonsensical < 1284236935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're defining how programs must handle a certain type of data X. therefore, how the programs behave when given some data that is not X is none of your business, and you can't specify it < 1284236952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do, you're effectively saying that everything is valid X, just that most of it is handled by saying "NO WRONG SYNTAX ERROR" < 1284236976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus creating your "Octets Specification 1.0" < 1284237025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They've also changed the BNF, in /1.0 it's "Request = Simple-Request | Full-Request" where Simple-Request is "GET", space, URI, CRLF, while "Full-Request" starts with a similar-looking Request-Line with the version field; in /1.1 it's just Request = Request-Line [more stuff]. < 1284237037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, actually it is. Since you define how it should handle data on the HTTP port. < 1284237045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not just how it should handle HTTP data on the HTTP port < 1284237077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm sure that argument holds up though) < 1284237082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, not really, it's far more abstract than that < 1284237089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not sure", I assume < 1284237094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err yeah < 1284237123 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284237138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install quicker!! < 1284237144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?! < 1284237158 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-47.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1284237159 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1284237183 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-47.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1284237190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell is it installing Gnash?! < 1284237195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway my argument is reasonable I think: Here I define how to handle data sent to you on port 80. If the data is seemingly not valid, do this (for compatibility reasons). < 1284237201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems quite sane to me < 1284237218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sure you didn't select "install everything" by mistake? < 1284237261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure; that isn't even an option. < 1284237267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but that's /not what the HTTP spec says/ < 1284237274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1284237287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm. perhaps < 1284237321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if what fizzie says about the BNF is true, then it's actually fine. < 1284237399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284237547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either the way I'm wearing these is VERY wrong, or this is junk < 1284237557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1284237563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This headset < 1284237631 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1284237670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I think this is better < 1284237674 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still painful, though < 1284237960 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that explains why I don' < 1284237965 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't remember it. < 1284237983 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: would it totally fuck you up if someone here started using unicode? < 1284237998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: not necessarily, no. but i wouldn't be able to see it properly. feel free < 1284237999 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you know the trick to get back now, so i guess not. < 1284238045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if i didn't, i could just restart the console :) < 1284238108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Detected blah blah: Windows Vista (loader)" Actually, that's 7... < 1284238125 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :♫ some WHERE OVer the RAINbow ♫ < 1284238154 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION startled to learn that the unicode spec attempts to define input methods for musical symbols.
< 1284238185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw that properly. < 1284238202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284238218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but then you died soon afterwards. < 1284238220 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the unicode symbol for the B-minor mass? < 1284238235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are no known bidirectional implications for Musical Symbols." < 1284238244 0 :relet1!~hirtho@85.52.229.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284238257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably true < 1284238291 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have not yet found a culture that reads music right-to-left. we are still looking. < 1284238325 0 :alise!5b68f753@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.104.247.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284238339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooomewheeeere oover the raiiinbooooooow / Deeebiaaaaan < 1284238347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a program output esc followed by "%%G" should make the Linux console output driver handle data in UTF-8 (if it doesn't already; it can be set to do that by default too), but of course the console font probably won't have that many characters. < 1284238352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a bit late now. < 1284238358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Staaarts tooo a mediocre GNO-OME / deeeesktoooop < 1284238375 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1284238425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiiiith Cleaar-looks and a branded / baaaackgroooound < 1284238435 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is the honest brutal VGA console font, ♫ could actually map to a character. < 1284238451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Linux default. < 1284238465 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are the blackboard bold letters too large, what is the correct size for a 10pt font? < 1284238470 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284238472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Empathy! The worst IRC client ever! The only client that Pidgin is actually better than! < 1284238489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ships with support for Facebook Chat but not MSN. Why? < 1284238503 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they build Empathy for Windows then? I need to slum even further. < 1284238513 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why < 1284238516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? < 1284238518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They're fine for me. < 1284238523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Try using LaTeX. < 1284238542 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't mean the LaTeX fonts, I am talking about the WEBMATH fonts < 1284238547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know ... < 1284238561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Haha, they've just taken Ubuntu's Software Centre and taken the Ubuntu out of the name. < 1284238568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The typewriter symbols are the correct size < 1284238581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, shit, we can't do better than that." "Just put it in the repositories..." < 1284238661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported. < 1284238670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah! We still use su and root passwords because this is the early 2000s! < 1284238702 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reported? To who? < 1284238712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually, root@localhost. < 1284238723 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1284238738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell is /etc/shadow-? < 1284238744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /etc/shadow- Backup file for /etc/shadow. < 1284238745 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naughty single user! I'm telling the single user about you! < 1284238746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If it is the honest brutal VGA console font, ♫ could actually map to a character. <-- ?? A note symbol? < 1284238756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never tried Empathy < 1284238765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is surprising if it's some sort of default client < 1284238767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pretty sure that debian-installer's expert mode asks if you want to put in a password for root; if you don't, it creates a sudoers-allowed user account instead. < 1284238784 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have still used "su" on some Linux computers, but not for root account. There are a few terminals which are public use, each one with its own account. To access files that I have created with a different account, I can use "su guest02" and stuff like that < 1284238796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, aptitudes interface changed. < 1284238797 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://beacon.chebucto.ca/Back/A9908/img/vga_norm.gif < 1284238799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*aptitude's < 1284238800 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x0e < 1284238803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ... is the first time that has ever happened. < 1284238813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, heh < 1284238826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That's what it displayed as, yes. < 1284238827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, should be 0x07 for the note symbol < 1284238831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with that being ASCII bell < 1284238853 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe you can go back to the late 80's before this was set in stone and tell them that! < 1284238862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Headsets don't make good headphones < 1284238865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, do you have a time machine handy? < 1284238880 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1284238891 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mu < 1284238900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, the single-note character is at 0x0d, carriage return, and I've seen typewriters that ring a bell on carriage-return. < 1284238910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had I would use it first to make them change ipv4 to use more than 32 bits. < 1284238911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 無 is what he meant to say. < 1284238925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, eh? < 1284238943 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they mapped THAT to the brutal vga font! < 1284238946 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CP437 character set was not designed so that the meaning of ASCII control codes would correspond to the graphics in those positions < 1284238957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1284238965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is 0x0e? < 1284238980 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :muuuuuuuuuuuuuu :( < 1284239000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Shift Out", the character-set swapping thing. < 1284239005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1284239033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might still have the time machine that I used to kill Elliott Hird somewhere < 1284239147 0 :MigoMipo!~John@scandic841.host.songnetworks.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1284239150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284239161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm tricky to search for info on dwarf debugging info (a format used by linux for debug info, and *BSD too iirc). I tried adding ELF to the search but that didn't exactly help at all < 1284239162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1284239171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the good old broken bar instead of a |. < 1284239219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"specification" is often a very good word for searches like that. (Unless you want human-readable explanations, of course; but I tend to prefer the incomprehensible.) < 1284239236 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dwarf tutorial" < 1284239240 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1284239255 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dares
< 1284239262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it actually works. < 1284239271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Introduction to the DWARF Debugging Format by Michael Eager (PDF)." < 1284239280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is Agda's standard library exactly what one would get if a bunch of 5-year-olds were asked to pick out Unicode symbols? < 1284239281 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey yeah! dwarfstd.org < 1284239282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was nice. I was expecting... other things. < 1284239286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wasn't looking for the spec. I was looking for some history about it. < 1284239294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1284239303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought so. < 1284239305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Dwarf/Elf STDs! < 1284239307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very dangerous. < 1284239311 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1284239325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And their coinduction seems utterly brain-dead. < 1284239327 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to make the Enhanced CWEB can use the WEBMATH font, although I can include things for other Plain TeX documents as well, a little bit < 1284239341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't know of anything wrong with their coinduction apart from the syntax. < 1284239343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong. < 1284239346 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that is I intend to have the typewriter control graphics and blackboard bold < 1284239346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is the snowman in there? < 1284239357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, god only knows. < 1284239395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even trickier, which was my first search is the toolkit dwarves. Trying to find official website for it is hopeless. If it even has one. It works on DWARF debugging info btw. < 1284239400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to make gnome use sudo, not su? < 1284239424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Web browser: [ Debian Sensible Browser ]" < 1284239436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME sensible-editor, sensible-pager, sensible-browser - sensible editing, paging, and web browsing < 1284239438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I found is a seemingly outdated git branch at kernel.org < 1284239447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sensible Software are gonna sue! < 1284239451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ... how do I make a nauseous-looking emoticon.. ? < 1284239456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sensible Software? < 1284239457 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that name sounds familiar... < 1284239459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Why nauseous? < 1284239463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sensible Software I mean < 1284239468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: They're just programs that open a reasonable program for the task. :P < 1284239472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like x-www-browser. < 1284239475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they did Cannon Fodder < 1284239486 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, if it's a shell/dispatcher thingy, that's not too bad. < 1284239487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doesn't ring a bell < 1284239488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Sensible Soccer < 1284239495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, uhh, apparently Sensible Golf < 1284239502 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284239518 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just such a distasteful word in my lexicon. < 1284239528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sensible Train Spotting is the world's first ever computerized train spotting simulator." gahahaha < 1284239530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh right, one of the darwinia loading screens makes a reference to Sensible Software. That is where I heard it I think. < 1284239537 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284239537 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could argue it's because I'm not at all sensible, I suppose... < 1284239569 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ms security essentials updates like locking up my computer < 1284239581 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: It's for its own good < 1284239588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :security essentials? < 1284239590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1284239608 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft's AV software < 1284239615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1284239621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, ask alise about that. < 1284239633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1284239653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locking up. < 1284239659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1284239676 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps Phantom_Hoover
< 1284239706 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In weather today, the clouds disappeared, the oceans turned black, and giant zebra arrows rained violently down from space. < 1284239724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1284239729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, perhaps you could help SgeoN1's computer deal with locking up? < 1284239736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, zebra arrows? Are they made out of zebras or zebra shaped or just zebra coloured? < 1284239738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why? < 1284239746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a combination of those? < 1284239752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget it. < 1284239763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know < 1284239770 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284239771 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought PH was referring to your life situation until recently < 1284239777 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it means stripe black and white arrows < 1284239781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, random text generator? < 1284239793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. I found it in FORTUNE file < 1284239798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284239806 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shoots a zebra arrow at Phantom_Hoover
< 1284239813 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, these things are pretty cool. < 1284239820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could be just stripey. < 1284239823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fires up the god-reactor.
< 1284239866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shoots a concentrated ray of high-velocity deions at cpressey.
< 1284239898 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they are black-and-white striped arrows. And Ted Nugent has lent his name to a brand of them. < 1284239908 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cgi.ebay.com/Ted-Nugent-Gold-Tip-5575-Carbon-Arrows-Raw-Shafts-1-Dz_W0QQitemZ400127495981QQcategoryZ20844QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D300393787162%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5753594848568064443 < 1284239913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that ebay auction has ended! < 1284239925 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still buy a "DIVA SPARKLE ZEBRA ARROW SIGN HANGING WALL ART PINK" though. < 1284239941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a zebra-patterned arrow sign with "DIVA" in pink text on top. < 1284239943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1284239944 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing from FORTUNE file: Circular logic is good because it is. < 1284239956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. cpressey should be thoroughly blessed by now. < 1284239973 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously something is in the path of the ray. < 1284239990 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How do you know I'm not? < 1284240001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not glowing. < 1284240005 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1284240047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, one of the noted effects of high-energy deions is severe brain damage, leading to an extreme case of fundamentalism. < 1284240058 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Arrrrrr!!! sin theta. Polar coordinates are a pirate's best friend. < 1284240069 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun da mental < 1284240101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries firing the deion beam at a hamster.
< 1284240113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fundamentalism is often illogical too. Jack Chick is Illogical Christianity. < 1284240116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails due to lack of hamsters.
< 1284240136 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who follows Illogical Christianity, shall therefore be called Chicken. < 1284240192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Arrrrrr!!! sin theta. Polar coordinates are a pirate's best friend. <-- is this the horrible pun I think it is....? < 1284240198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1284240200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it can't possibly be that bad can it? < 1284240213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although a little nonsensical from a mathematical standpoint... < 1284240224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1284240236 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the "sin theta" part pun to something? < 1284240241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r sin theta < 1284240245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems clear to me < 1284240249 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in pirate. < 1284240270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the conversion from polar (r, theta) to cartesian y; I wouldn't call it "nonsensical", just a bit arbitrary. < 1284240289 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not without cos, it isn't. < 1284240292 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like if it was "avast ye" instead of "sin theta", I wouldn't be asking. < 1284240307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that's why he said "cartesian _y_" < 1284240316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh. < 1284240322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the adm group means admin, right? < 1284240325 0 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1284240333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1284240341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'evening < 1284240347 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this mucking about with pirate puns has summoned oerjan. < 1284240351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no < 1284240353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why are you asking? I think it is there mostly for compat reasons and not really used any more < 1284240356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misremember < 1284240360 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, NOOOO < 1284240362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm? what happened? < 1284240368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no? < 1284240378 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: your server? < 1284240383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok; I'll use the sudo group then < 1284240385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nvg server i've been using for irc for years died < 1284240390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :( < 1284240397 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm... < 1284240402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wait! < 1284240403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably does have "adm"inistrationary connotations, but it's anyone's guess if your system uses it for anything. < 1284240414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you didn't use a bouncer? < 1284240415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION aims the deion beam at Norway
< 1284240416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1284240416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, long live sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no < 1284240422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any sort of persistent connection < 1284240427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope < 1284240432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so...? < 1284240436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't notice me being absent? < 1284240437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Debian's /etc/sudoers by default even does the "sudo" group, but it's there commented-out. < 1284240449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I noticed you not staying connected while sleeping before < 1284240450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you feel at all blesséd? < 1284240450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when not present) < 1284240453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what you mean < 1284240467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so why are you using a server for the irc client then < 1284240469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it does < 1284240470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no sense < 1284240473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: without uncommenting < 1284240539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: old habits, also my laptop is windows while the server is linux and has irssi < 1284240560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fix buffer expansion bug, detected thanks to boost that provided things like: < 1284240560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : virtual int undefine(class grammar_helper > *); /* linkage=_ZN5boost6spirit4impl14grammar_helperINS0_7grammarINS_6detail5graph11dot_skipperENS0_14parser_contextINS0_5nil_tEEEEES6_NS0_7scann < 1284240560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erINS0_10multi_passISt16istream_i */ < 1284240561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XS < 1284240563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD* < 1284240565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do i have this crazy recollection that fizzie said he puts a space after his messages < 1284240566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the server has my email < 1284240577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats from a changelog for dwarves < 1284240580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Only after messages that end with a ? mark. < 1284240586 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1284240587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1284240589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1284240591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what are its coördinates? < 1284240608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, unicode shows as a . to oerjan. < 1284240620 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� < 1284240638 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� < 1284240680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ô_ô < 1284240680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, aww < 1284240694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: For the record, the space was to avoid the "answers all lines that end in a ?" babble-bot. < 1284240732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Here's a tip if you ever want to be really annoying: try to answer something nonsensical whenever someone asks any question whatsoever, even if you have no idea what it means. < 1284240734 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: table 2? 16. this affection,/ organ, in exactly/ same manner, and quite believe you that you are so inclined, i should think at least 2000 feet thick, :) brown argillaceous limestone, in parts :)/ world, by/ heaping up :)/ amount :) work that he accomplished was gigantic and :)/ foul smell which came from them. < 1284240744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also, occasionally, and occasionally cursed < 1284240746 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1284240746 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1284240753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I want to have your babies < 1284240754 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it would appear that there was much greenish-brown pulpy matter. this must be associated with some purplish claystone porphyry, greenstone porphyry, attains a great thickness :) red sandstone; and above this a coarser fnord a total thickness :) these three archipelagoes, all/ forms :)/ same division :)/ system, rather than betray his comrades, would be much aided. < 1284240755 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: W. T. F. < 1284240760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darwin just keeps on smiling. < 1284240776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how blessed to you feel right now? < 1284240823 0 :Jonty!~jadh@cpc2-sgyl11-0-0-cust453.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284240920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not much < 1284240940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If somebody told you to sit on an altar, would there be an amber flash? < 1284240952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, damn, I must be aiming at the wrong bit of Norway. < 1284240957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure of the exact placement of the server, but i assume it's on NTNU's Gløshaugen campus < 1284240976 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1284240982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm only in the same city < 1284240996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how the heck should i know < 1284241003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mic-journal.no/ifac/pics/gloshaugen.jpg -- impressive-looking thing. < 1284241019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, damn, ran out of god-flesh. < 1284241019 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ... < 1284241057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'm not particularly christian so that may not work much < 1284241079 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, pah! This is SCIENCE! < 1284241116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also why are you giving fungot advice on what he's already a world expert on... < 1284241117 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: many carnivorous animals, can doubt that/ sterility is usually much reduced in length, on/ employment :) a man, as good fnord, and evergreen. " 10? 169. ( gardener's chronicle' 1842 page fnord 1855 page 646. in/ autumn my whole time was devoted to shooting chiefly at mr. farrer's notes. < 1284241136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A man, as good fnord, and evergreen. < 1284241144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1284241148 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darwin was apparently psychotic a good deal of the time. < 1284241160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, spending a whole autumn just shooting at someone's notes. < 1284241163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, make love with me! < 1284241164 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: charles darwin to j.d. hooker. down, october 25th, 1881.) nothing can be inferred with certainty from/ following peculiarities :) structure. but as for showing your satisfaction in confounding my experiments, as well as/ so-called haematin used by me, a plausible explanation is afforded :)/ leading phenomena connected with/ act :) display, by/ conditions, and if so what flowers ' :( entomological weekly intelligencer", 18 < 1284241182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is a BORING thing < 1284241182 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: bloom-experiments on. -sleep-movements :) cotyledons. -p. gracilis, dispersal :) seeds. < 1284241194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i've read that about Jung, not so much Darwin... < 1284241196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a laser, except with Eucharist instead of a flash tube and pictures of Dawkins instead of mirrors. < 1284241219 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we tried feeding Jung to fungot, but he couldn't keep him down. < 1284241220 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: on an egyptian monument. -crosses :). fnord :) fnord would be very good guides as to what to get; but fnord :) moscow, who travelled over europe to see all this. < 1284241311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION returns with the god-flesh.
< 1284241335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's the "Hovedbygget" ("Main building"), it's only a small part of the campus though, on the front towards the city. there is also Sentralbygget behind it, with two twin tower skyscrapers. < 1284241336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fires at Gløshaugen.
< 1284241346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many other buildings. < 1284241362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: as i pointed out, i'm not actually there, just in the same city < 1284241456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm aiming at the server, silly. < 1284241501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i saw in the logs you asked about > binary operations, i know at least one called "median algebras", me and Rustad tried to publish an article connected to them but iirc it was rejected twice so we stopped. presumably it seemed too trivial. < 1284241512 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in any case, deions repel each other, so the beam spreads out over long distances. < 1284241537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although this could end up fundamentalising all of Gløshaugen. < 1284241568 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.247.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284241572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE POLICYKIT < 1284241595 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate Elliot Hird < 1284241597 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I never liked that "trivial" things are rejected by academia :( < 1284241609 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MATH NEEDS TO BE HARD!! < 1284241611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that's okay; as far as I'm aware, he doesn't exist. < 1284241625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Eliott Hird! < 1284241644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :median algebras have one ternary operation. it's inspired by the usual median operation of 3 numbers (and in a certain technical sense all the algebras are generated by just the {0,1} version, which is similar to how it is with boolean algebras) < 1284241683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of us can ever be happy without salt < 1284241686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss < 1284241691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i guess we could have got it accepted by aiming lower with the journal, if we'd bothered < 1284241700 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: eat you this rock < 1284241706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, depends. < 1284241712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: eat this rock I? < 1284241714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're happy being dead, it's fine. < 1284241747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T COME CRYING TO ME WHEN IRRIGATION IS ILLEGAL < 1284241754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no eat rocks in here < 1284241756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What do you think of BeOS? < 1284241770 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the only reason i was even going there is because passing a named argument to a function is (in the sense i'm interested in) ternary: function x name x value. < 1284241772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's DISGUSTING < 1284241802 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Almost nothing < 1284241816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: incidentally if you are familiar with the 2-SAT problem (analogous to 3-SAT and higher, but in P), the solutions to a 2-SAT problem form a median algebra < 1284241846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: said like a true cardigan < 1284241855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cardigans! < 1284241860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but remember < 1284241864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have eyes ... everywhere. < 1284241888 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds inconvenient < 1284241923 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how many fingers am I holding up? < 1284241952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: one more than you should be. < 1284241966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY GOD < 1284241985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fires DASER at alise.
< 1284242043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portcullis of EVIL < 1284242097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there are of course heaps of obscure kinds of algebras if one wants to look for them < 1284242108 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, heaps :/ < 1284242118 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is it an algebra?" is an uninteresting question < 1284242129 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"does it look like an algebra other people care about?" is closer < 1284242146 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still might not be interesting, since other people are just other people < 1284242194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PolicyKit is an obviously great idea done in a way that makes me want to cry. < 1284242248 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, explain the sucking? < 1284242315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: getting it to ask you for your own password, assuming you're in a given group, to authenticate (like sudo), rather than asking for root's password, is a difficult task. < 1284242334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, they seem to have an XML configuration file that does exactly the same thing as a non-XML directory of configuration files, but they may have removed the former as of very recently < 1284242338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not clear what you have to do < 1284242340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1284242530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may just install ubuntu < 1284242558 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_algebra ah, majority functions, yes... < 1284242575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be a time that I'd save every dilbert strip on the site to disk < 1284242622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION also recalls an operation with the property m(x,x,y) = y = m(y,x,x) for all x,y was important in the theory of algebras (a variety of algebras has commuting congruences iff it has a (possibly derived) operation with that property)
< 1284242655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for groups m(x,y,z) = x y^-1 z has that property < 1284242672 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284242680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhh8Ao4yweQ Don Knuth, student mathematician, used an electronic computer to evaluate each player's performance. He was 20. From 1958. < 1284242756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the Torley music! < 1284242868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what binary boolean function makes (a&b)|(a&c)|(b&c) simpler < 1284242929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An electronic computer! WOWSA < 1284242934 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELCOME - TO - THE - FUTURE < 1284242941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any two out of 3 < 1284242948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that be a binary function? < 1284242958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!a | !b | !c < 1284242964 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no < 1284242977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think you want bitwise not. < 1284242990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, how can you add binary functions to make that trinary function simpler to express? < 1284242999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the function being, "are the majority of arguments true?") < 1284243014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a&(b|c)|(b&c) < 1284243027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan wins. < 1284243033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1996-01-23/ < 1284243065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my eye hurts. < 1284243069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eth. < 1284243074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cool. that isn't adding a new function, though :-) < 1284243079 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distributivity ftw < 1284243083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is that (a&...)|(...) or a&(...|...)? < 1284243092 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, s/^/S/ ? < 1284243134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& has higher precedence than | in my intuition < 1284243134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Okay, /why/ has he got his tie-erection? < 1284243152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i always forget which way around higher/lower precedence goes < 1284243154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a strip where his tie was down < 1284243156 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1284243164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's just collecting the first two terms in your expression < 1284243173 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches alise's video.
< 1284243177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1284243180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the knuth one < 1284243185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oh, the knuth one < 1284243187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1991-05-10/ (not the strip with the tie down) < 1284243189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Scott Adams does it on purpose < 1284243196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50,000 instructions per *minute* < 1284243201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the Freudian meaning < 1284243210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps only as of late, though < 1284243224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only as of late for the Fruedian meaning? < 1284243230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, quite possibly < 1284243235 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dilbert's tie has been like that since um < 1284243236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that strip seems to imply it's always up in older strips < 1284243269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1284243270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In nearly every strip, Dilbert's tie is curved upward. While Scott Adams, the creator of the Dilbert comic strip, has offered no definitive explanation for this, he has explained the tie at least as a further example of Dilbert's lack of power over his environment. A second explanation given by Adams in the Dilbert FAQ is that "he is just glad to see you". Adams has also hinted that the tie may be displaying an aversion to him. Additionally, in Seven Years < 1284243270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of Highly Defective People, Adams wrote: "Many readers asked me to allow Dilbert to lose his innocence with Liz, so to speak. But I didn't see any way I could do that in a comic strip and get it past the editors. So I developed a secret sign. I told the people who receive the Dilbert newsletter that if Dilbert ever got lucky with Liz, I would draw his normally upturned necktie flat one day." The flat-necktie strip was printed on August 9, 1994, in which Dog < 1284243272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bert suspected that Dilbert had gotten lucky; ironically, the tie was shown flattened after Liz stated she didn't believe in fornication (Dogbert wondered if Dilbert, who was acting oddly serene, had discovered religion; Dilbert said he "thought he was Unitarian").[4] In another strip, Dilbert met Antina, an overly masculine female coworker who caused his tie to flatten and point downward, strengthening the idea of the tie being a phallic symbol[citation ne < 1284243277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eded] (Adams himself has said that he does not know what it means). Sometimes when Dilbert is surprised, scared, or has been beaten up, his tie goes straight. A series once went on about his tie, during which Dogbert attempts to find out. He tries having Ratbert eat one of the ties, theorizes that it has an aversion to him, and eventually gave up after a discussion with the garbageman. < 1284243285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1994-08-09/ < 1284243290 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1284243324 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1284243341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284243602 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.247.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284243656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or does Debian always seem like a pre-alpha version of Ubuntu with all the branding removed? < 1284243726 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snazzy red spiral < 1284243727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on what your "always" means, perhaps. Certainly it wasn't like that earlier. < 1284243745 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284243778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, certainly at least for a year or so < 1284243803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, maybe. I haven't really been following Debian on Desktop lately. < 1284243812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you used it. < 1284243815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since always refers to an infinite period of time < 1284243821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and alise now defined always as one year < 1284243839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means, the following year will last forever < 1284243856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284243906 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1284243932 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1284243945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe fizzie uses Debian on desktop with his eyes closed, so he doesn't inadvertently see changes. < 1284243962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284243981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't mind Ubuntu at all, really; just the audio thing. < 1284244000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I *think* I've been an Ubuntist on this workstation-box for at least a year now, but I might be wrong. Still Debian everywhere else. Can't say I noticed any heavy "Ubuntu -> Debian" borrowing going on, but I might just be unobservant. < 1284244020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, I'm not saying they literally borrow things; just that nothing seems to stick together properly. < 1284244040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ... unpolished, which makes you wonder what the hell their patches do. < 1284244070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, and they've taken Ubuntu Software Centre wholesale, renamed it Software Centre, and stuck it in System → Administration. < 1284244086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: Debian on the desktop - not compelling. < 1284244098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't say I noticed that especially well either, but then again I might not be quite using anything that should "stick together". I mean, I had X, and distinct programs in there, and did most of the stuff in a terminal. It's hard to screw *that* up. < 1284244099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha! It still says Ubuntu Software Centre in the manual. < 1284244103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh testing, how little you try. < 1284244121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, the administration programs with their authentication and whatnot. < 1284244146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know, I haven't seen any authorization prompts anywhere. < 1284244179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wish Ubuntu/Flash worked properly with AV sync. < 1284244189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu/Flash/OSSv4 works, but Ubuntu has zero OSS support. < 1284244208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Here, you use sidux. Is the integration any better? < 1284244215 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rebranding open-source software, now there's a vocation. < 1284244230 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: With OSS? Screw OSS :P < 1284244266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION leaves gmail open so he can receive calls
< 1284244269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not OSS, no. < 1284244276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Although OSSv4 is fucking awesome. < 1284244294 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here know autoconf and friends? < 1284244300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like ALSA except without all the crap, lots of fancy stuff, and excellent latency. < 1284244309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: TURN BACK! TURN BACK! DARKNESS WILL ENVELOP YOU! < 1284244319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean with the desktop environment. For instance: PolicyKit. Can I make everything just work sudo-style? < 1284244337 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, I wasn't asking for *that* reason. < 1284244347 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's Debian. You go console. For everything. That's how I roll. < 1284244355 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was seeing who here was just that mental. < 1284244361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, are you running X11 right now? < 1284244389 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, yes I am :P < 1284244400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And are you running KDE? < 1284244403 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell no < 1284244410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You sure as hell used to. < 1284244415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE4 sucks arse. < 1284244417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE3 was good. < 1284244427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how one actually *sucks* arse. < 1284244437 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very carefully. < 1284244465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A straw may be involved. < 1284244474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't sound particularly erotic. < 1284244495 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE4 is not an erotic desktop environment. < 1284244498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a terrible one. < 1284244502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know, to each his/her/its own. < 1284244506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SexDE < 1284244597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be man pages for "sex" and "lsd" and some third thing like that on some system, I forget which. < 1284244623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man sex < 1284244653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examples of both seem to still be in the interwebs. Also, man 1 lsd has a non sequitur "The output device is assumed to be 80 columns wide." at the end. < 1284244754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1284244763 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1284244764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non sequitur? i hardly know her! < 1284244766 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm you suck arse by applying suction to it with your mouth < 1284244793 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2008-04-02/ < 1284244800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a weirdo would think that's not erotic < 1284244801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders what pre-Dust Puppy UF was like
< 1284244819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why not link to the more human-friendly http://dilbert.com/fast/2008-04-02/ instead? < 1284244830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, laziness? < 1284244834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgetfullness? < 1284244867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's just a string substitution. You must really be the lazy. < 1284244906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: exactly like it is now < 1284244911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot that some people might prefer it < 1284244914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/etc/trips is a log of system-wide use of lsd since booting." ;; that's non-FHS, sheesh! < 1284244919 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 'fast' url seems to go to *today*'s strip < 1284244924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: does not < 1284244939 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... my browser is insane, is all < 1284244942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: every human prefers it. < 1284244942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: FHS? < 1284244950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: file hierarchy standard < 1284244954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the lsd(1) manpage < 1284244959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes reading the comments
< 1284244962 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... i got the url wrong and it seems to assume i want today's strip < 1284244979 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that is why you be lazy for strin substitutions. easy to fail. < 1284244992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it file*system* hierarchy whatevers? (Pick, pick, pick the nit.) < 1284245002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: er right < 1284245051 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1284245083 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dilbert.com/strips/sojdohehisnbond/ < 1284245173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The non-fast versions seems to have gotten more sensible, though. Wasn't it completely flash-driven at some point? < 1284245189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1284245220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it seems to work without scripts and everything, it's just a bit more graphically intensive and so on. < 1284245334 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's anything sweeter than recursive make it's gotta be recursive configure. < 1284245338 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always imagine alise as dogbert < 1284245381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursive autogen. < 1284245425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I must've meant autoconf or autoreconf or something; I can't even recall what autogen exactly does.) < 1284245517 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe autogen could be the busybox of the auto* tools. It's a single script that does everything depending on what it's called < 1284245524 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :script, program, whatever < 1284245530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autogen regenerates configure, iirc < 1284245534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from configure.ac < 1284245537 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought that was autoconf < 1284245544 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284245585 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's done now at least, but ff is still greyed out < 1284245597 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey would be someone like Moss from IT Crowd < 1284245618 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I've never seen it < 1284245638 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://cutr.pl/0f72992d5f < 1284245655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finally realises it's 9/11
< 1284245665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dilbert.com/fast/2004-01-29/ angry Asok is awesome < 1284245722 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie -> http://www.eaea.org/uploadkuvat/eaea/johanni08.JPG < 1284245739 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is Gregor < 1284245740 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i'm not sure what to think of that < 1284245764 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please do not be offended < 1284245772 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not at all < 1284245788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REDNECK BEETLE! < 1284245804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey would be someone like Moss from IT Crowd ;; naw < 1284245811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey's too chilled < 1284245831 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently don't have a picture :P < 1284245837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie -> http://www.eaea.org/uploadkuvat/eaea/johanni08.JPG ;; I don't see the beard < 1284245841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You look like Gregor < 1284245845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1284245848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even read nooga's line < 1284245854 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: https://codu.org/hats.php < 1284245859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is the only self-representing person in here < 1284245862 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: :P < 1284245872 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and me... hmmm < 1284245883 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. I'm me. And cpressey is actually named Bob Farber and ais is actually Chuck Melontoast. < 1284245907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ais is ais too < 1284245937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga i basically imagine as a polish window-cleaner except with his hand on his chin, pondering < 1284245956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is probably Ratbert
< 1284245987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan looks like this: http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/thumb/c/c1/200px-Edsger_Dijkstra_large.jpg < 1284245993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except younger < 1284245998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with a less-jutting-out chin < 1284246012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he speaks with his mouth always slightly wider than most people would < 1284246013 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well < 1284246013 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know who he should be
< 1284246028 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59 < alise> oerjan looks like this: ... < 1284246031 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it! < 1284246050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our personification algorithms are incredibly similar. < 1284246053 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh uploading so slow. < 1284246063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i think that's about as far from me you can get and still have a white male < 1284246066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I do am a bit beardy. There was a recent-ish photo somewhere, but I seem to have misplaced it. (Maybe that's a good thing.) < 1284246083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of people do am a bit beardy. < 1284246090 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hmmm, well, i guess all englishmen have quite simmilar image of polish ppl :F < 1284246103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i was joking < 1284246103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You must be confused: the picture looks somehow oerjany. Are you sure you know what you look like? < 1284246113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dilbert.com/fast/2002-09-23/ < 1284246116 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then CTO http://cutr.pl/bbdb2f7187 < 1284246117 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1284246127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, we all match oerjan's personality with that picture of Dijkstra! < 1284246127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines nooga to be a lump of white confectionery.
< 1284246143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: is that you? < 1284246144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well i'm blond, don't have glasses, am always clean shaven, and haven't worn a tie in years. < 1284246149 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah < 1284246150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't look like how you look at all. < 1284246152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop lying < 1284246159 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not lying ;f < 1284246175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIAR < 1284246181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"64-bit - Not recommended for daily desktop usage" < 1284246184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does Ubuntu say that, I wonder... < 1284246185 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the photo was taken in a museum, in Edinburgh < 1284246218 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm blond, don't have glasses, am rarely clean shaven but still have no facial hair, and wear a tie frequently! < 1284246218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, when were you in Edinburgh? < 1284246237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck ubuntu's download page < 1284246239 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in April, AFAIR < 1284246241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't let you copy a link < 1284246250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has brown hair and no glasses
< 1284246252 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: first guess: not too stable. (But then -- continual *server* usage would be a better fit? uh...) < 1284246258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ? < 1284246272 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< alise> "64-bit - Not recommended for daily desktop usage" < 1284246275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines #esoteric Guess who.
< 1284246278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284246280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very stable < 1284246289 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i have no idea either < 1284246291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just doesn't support flash without a sucky wrapper, but flash sucks on linux anyway < 1284246299 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1284246301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the wrapper is auto-installed < 1284246340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu-10.04.1-desktop-amd64.metalink < 1284246341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1284246345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to go beyond my maximum connection speed < 1284246383 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan -> http://cutr.pl/6960e3c6aa < 1284246385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be Skype issues on 64-bit linux, but I guess that might be outdated information too. < 1284246396 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, no glasses, right < 1284246482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cutr.pl/6960e3c6aa ;; not oerjan :P < 1284246503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :900 KiB/s, oh yeah. < 1284246510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On an 800-and-a-bit KiB/s connection. < 1284246525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, explain...? < 1284246542 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft < 1284246548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aria2 downloads from five bajillion HTTP servers simultaneously as well as bittorrent with DHT < 1284246550 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got 1.6MiB atm < 1284246561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an appropriate metalink file to specify them all < 1284246564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < alise> "64-bit - Not recommended for daily desktop usage" <-- where does it say that < 1284246567 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /s < 1284246572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :result: your connection gets faster than your top speed with e.g. HTTP < 1284246574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on the download page < 1284246582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, download page for debian? < 1284246584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit linux works very well for desktops these days < 1284246586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu. < 1284246589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit sherlock. < 1284246590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284246593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just said that < 1284246594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i think my hair is somewhat lighter than yours < 1284246602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost certainly. < 1284246609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there is of course every now and then the flash issue. But that's all. < 1284246613 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My hair is about as dark as it gets while still being pseudo-reasonable to call it "blond" < 1284246656 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm comparing hair colours? < 1284246668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beat you both: my hair is dark brown < 1284246678 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got read beard! < 1284246679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dark enough brown that most people think it's black. < 1284246681 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hair LIGHTNESS is the winning condition :P < 1284246681 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :red**** < 1284246682 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\fffff < 1284246683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i win < 1284246685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READ BEARD < 1284246686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I'll read your beard. < 1284246686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, nah < 1284246690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok brb < 1284246691 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it! < 1284246698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, red natural? < 1284246701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or coloured? < 1284246704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if natural, you wil < 1284246706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win* < 1284246711 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural < 1284246715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you win < 1284246719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the "have a bucket of red paint, then ask 'do you want your beard read?'" joke? < 1284246725 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: #FF0000? < 1284246736 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly ;f < 1284246737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#F00 is shorter! < 1284246741 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f00 < 1284246745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, for some reason my beard is a lighter brown than the hair on the top of my head < 1284246765 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have a friend with brown hair on his head and red/orange facial hair. < 1284246785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, #f00 isn't enough to describe it. It is so red it lies outside sRGB < 1284246798 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: WOW! < 1284246806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1284246823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's so red that the surrounding environment looks grey due to the cones in your eyes burning out. < 1284246826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I believe Adobe Wide Gamut covers it < 1284246838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monochromatic hair. < 1284246877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Gamut_RGB_color_space < 1284246978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm? < 1284246981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by that < 1284247050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single wavelength (let's say 700 nm, that's stereotypically red) reflected, won't get very much redder than that. < 1284247064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lies outside of sRGB I presume? < 1284247081 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a beard-laser < 1284247103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, so the light reflected from it is coherent? < 1284247106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work < 1284247146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's seems that the wide gamut RGB red primary is pretty much that. < 1284247153 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhhhhhhhhh < 1284247157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1284247163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ? < 1284247199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I want a wide gamut display. With 16-bit per channel or better of course < 1284247203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a GPU that supports that < 1284247206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be awesome < 1284247212 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't drive to the gas station to buy some cola to drink vodka with that cola < 1284247221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would generally expect the primary colors of RGB to be pure spectral...
< 1284247225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, oh? < 1284247235 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would anyone mix cola with vodka? < 1284247243 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mix ;F < 1284247252 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vodka first and then cola < 1284247255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, why would anyone drink vodka at all < 1284247270 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel completely sober, but who knows < 1284247280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, um RGB is not a precise word in this context. Do you mean sRGB? < 1284247283 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other RGB? < 1284247311 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, solution: don't drink alcohol. Then you can drive whenever you want. :P < 1284247316 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284247318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm making an argument from ignorance here, so obviously i don't have a clue about that < 1284247326 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can walk to that station, it's just 300m < 1284247327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1284247337 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, OR avoid alcohol :P < 1284247346 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm thirsty < 1284247351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : nooga water? < 1284247358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, possibly (with advanced enough fake-science) you could have some sort of hair that does *very* accurate eye-tracking, and reflects photons aimed at the three (or four, for some people) different types of cone cells in the proper proportion to get the color that (according to subjective tests) is perceived the most "red" by a large sample of viewers. < 1284247365 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: boring < 1284247389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what? Really? < 1284247409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh is this one of those "imaginary" colours? < 1284247414 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: With fake-science, anything's possible! < 1284247432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing imaginary about this one, though. < 1284247437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1284247449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, couldn't you just paint it in such a colour < 1284247459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoiding the need for eye tracking < 1284247507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: have you been drunk? < 1284247508 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so easy; even with a single-wavelength color, you still get responses from all three types of cone cells, just at different levels. But if you direct your photons directly at them, you can put out any sort of distribution you want. < 1284247516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no < 1284247527 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you wonder why people do it? < 1284247535 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lol < 1284247541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like asking people why they've ever opened their eyes when they have a perfectly good hearing < 1284247547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, likely not practically possible? < 1284247552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, wait, which Edinburgh museum were you in? < 1284247559 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's fucking stupid < 1284247584 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: National Museum of Scotland < 1284247585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, not practically possible now. Might be easier to just hook into the optic nerve anyway, instead of trying to aim at the cones. < 1284247614 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION summons Qualia: Redness
< 1284247626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, when? < 1284247670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, it *would* be interesting to see what it would look like if you'd somehow get something that causes only a single cone cell type to respond. < 1284247670 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: April < 1284247700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, so after they closed all the cool bits for renovation? < 1284247748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that's kind of possible with those weird little afterimages you get. < 1284247750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1284247776 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yep, I can remember that there was a renovation then < 1284247796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Photobleaching can be used to determine cone arrangement. This is done by exposing dark-adapted retina to a certain wavelength of light that paralyzes the particular type of cone sensitive to that wavelength for up to thirty minutes from being able to dark-adapt making it appear white in contrast to the grey dark-adapted cones when a picture of the retina is taken." Heh, they do the strangest stuff. < 1284247831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the cool bits will not be cool once they finish with it. < 1284247836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them < 1284247868 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used all of the interactive contraptions for kids < 1284247903 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :priceless < 1284247977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how does it look like for the person in question < 1284247987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that was subjected to it < 1284248030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The abstract doesn't say, and they might even not have asked. < 1284248047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To read this story in full you will need to login or make a payment (see right)." < 1284248060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284248087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, adding the university proxy worked again. Still, I doubt they asked for subjective things there. < 1284248091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this looks extremely different: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photobleaching < 1284248277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The article talks about "bleaching"; I don't know enough on how the cells in the eye work to be able to guess if it's the same process or not. < 1284248441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders on the practical applications of god-flesh manipulation
< 1284248463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What are the implications of this arrangement for vision? The coarse grain of the cone submosaics causes fluctuations in the colour appearance of tiny, monochromatic light flashes because the relative excitation of different cone classes depends on the location of the flash. A related illusion is Brewster's colours, the perception of irregular patches of pastel colour while viewing periodic black and white patterns of high spatial frequency. Similarly, red-gre < 1284248464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en isoluminant gratings with spatial frequencies above the resolution limit look like chromatic and luminant spatial noise." < 1284248473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the eye's just a badly designed digital camera. < 1284248512 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell us something we don't know. < 1284248564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey Jesus, where'd you put those nice plans for the eye we used for squids?" "Damn, I lost them. Ah, just throw in any old crap." < 1284248810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their main point seems to be that the two longer-wavelength cells aren't randomly splattered here and there, but instead occur in contiguous-ish clumps; "Although the existence of these patches indicates that the trichromat may sometimes misjudge the colour appearance of tiny objects, the patches will be beneficial in recovering high-frequency luminance patterns, because cortical neurons tuned to high spatial frequency are more likely to be fed by contiguous co < 1284248810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nes of the same class." < 1284248867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooner or later I'm sure we'll be replacing the boring old eyes with all sorts of augmentations. < 1284248879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I could make a deion transfer network and give everyone a constant supply of holiness! < 1284249233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/shape_shifters/