00:02:14 Heh, the eye's just a badly designed digital camera. <-- a LOT of MP though 00:04:52 and it's rather analog than digital 00:05:14 + nice FOV and extremely fast AF 00:05:27 fair dynamic range, also 00:08:10 yeah 00:08:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 00:08:27 576 megapixels, according to some back-of-the-envelope calculations in the internet. (That was based on 120/60 degree H/V-FOV and the maximum acuity, so it does sort-of mean taking multiple "shots".) 00:08:51 nooga, slow changing the stopping though 00:08:58 or perhaps changing the ISO 00:09:01 not sure which 00:09:20 but when it gets there it is good at that level 00:09:51 it just takes ages to change from f11 1/2000 ISO64 to f3.5 1/2 ISO800 00:11:17 well 00:11:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:11:50 There's quite a lot of difference in the luma/chroma resolution, what with only about 5 % of the retinal cells being color-sensitive. 00:11:58 pupil reacts quite fast 00:12:06 fizzie, true. 00:12:20 fizzie, more around "straight ahead" iirc? 00:12:27 i've got funny illness 00:12:51 fizzie, and the resolution goes way down out towards the edges 00:12:51 sometimes, my left eye breaks 00:12:57 you mean the tumor 00:13:03 I mean, you can't read anything not straight ahead 00:13:13 nooga, breaks? 00:13:15 also didn't you get glass in your eye 00:13:32 nooga, doctor right away! 00:13:33 no, because it's completely healthy from the optical point fo view 00:13:39 seen the doctor 00:13:42 and? 00:14:13 he said it's a problem with optical nerve bandwith 00:14:25 and it looks just like it 00:14:25 8| 00:14:46 get a new optical nerve 00:14:54 first, the colors start to dim, and it's like changing color depth in a computer display 00:14:59 then everything is gray 00:15:16 and then i can see only contours and movement 00:15:41 and then just static, like in TV, but really hi-res 00:15:55 nooga, um and what triggers it? 00:16:15 after 3-5 minutes everything is back to normal 00:16:25 nooga, also I doubt that you should drive if you get such things 00:16:33 oh, it happens rarely 00:16:33 it sounds dangerous combined with driving 00:16:49 never had that when driving 00:16:55 and it's just one eye :D 00:17:13 so i would have time to stop by the road and wait 00:17:14 nooga, that stills removes some 80° or such of your view field 00:17:27 true 00:17:37 what 00:17:42 nooga, on a freeway or such? 00:17:43 oh 00:17:45 degrees 00:17:46 hahah 00:17:48 nooga, would be tricky 00:17:50 i read that as 80% 00:17:55 there are no FREEWAYS in Poland :P 00:18:03 nooga, oh? 00:18:06 yeah poland is a fucking desert 00:18:14 There's just PRISONWAYS. 00:18:26 ok, there are, but only a few 00:18:28 nooga, weren't you driving in Sweden or something some year(s) ago? 00:18:31 I would guess they let one-eyed people drive, though. 00:18:46 nooga, and we have E4, E6, E18, E20 and so on 00:18:50 nooga: seriously, didn't you get glass in your eye 00:18:51 110 km/h 00:18:57 serious business 00:18:57 in many places 00:19:10 Vorpal: true, i've been there, 110km/h 00:19:18 120 km/h on freeways here, at least in the summer. 00:19:24 100HP saab 9-5 00:19:36 nooga, there something like that eye issue would possibly be fatal 00:19:37 200* 00:19:37 yeah but you can go faster if you're badass 00:19:46 oklopol, -_- 00:19:53 Vorpal: in what sense? 00:20:01 nooga, collision risk 00:20:05 Vorpal: don't say driving too fast is bad for you if you haven't tried it 00:20:06 not a chance 00:20:10 not on a freeway 00:20:19 -!- lament has joined. 00:20:26 nooga, well, also hard to stop along the side of the road 00:20:37 not in sweden, because you meet 5 cars on the freeway, during whole day 00:20:47 nooga, um not my experience 00:20:53 nooga, depends on where though I guess 00:21:10 Vorpal, what do you know about living dangerously? 00:21:16 i get this effect rare and i know when it starts 00:21:34 nooga, near Gothenburg or Stockholm the chances are you will be stuck in queues. Around where I live you don't get queues but the traffic can be quite intense 00:21:38 i've got 2-3 minutes to react 00:21:41 driving a car sounds scary, i doubt i'll ever do it 00:21:51 but i don't judge 00:21:55 Phantom_Hoover, what do you mean by that? 00:22:03 * Phantom_Hoover has no idea 00:22:03 oklopol, you don't have a driving license? 00:22:07 no 00:22:13 * Phantom_Hoover is sleep deprived 00:22:29 *sleepy 00:22:36 See how incoherent I am? 00:22:37 i prefer not doing things that are deadly 00:22:41 We had this tiny little Fiat whatever that couldn't really go fast, and we had it on a trip to Germany; everyone was going past so fast it was sometimes hard to say whether we were moving at all. 00:22:51 i mean 00:22:54 oklopol: Yet you do math! 00:22:56 if you're driving a car 00:23:01 well 00:23:06 and suddenly you fall asleep or start watching a movie 00:23:08 you will die. 00:23:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScRGB <-- what a silly colour space 00:23:12 fizzie, ^ 00:23:27 250km/h is doable on bumpy polish roads 00:23:33 nooga, you tried? 00:23:34 and i'm still alive 00:23:36 ouch 00:23:38 Vorpal: Noticed that from your earlier link. It *is* silly. 00:23:40 fizzie: didn't i mention i'm switching to bartending because math is too hard 00:23:46 fizzie, which one? 00:23:52 fizzie, this one I didn't link before 00:23:54 Vorpal: but when i was in swe i tried not to speed 00:23:59 Vorpal: ScRGB. 00:24:00 in fact, i didn't speed at all 00:24:16 fizzie, right, I didn't link it before that 00:24:39 Vorpal: Yes, but it was in the bottom table of colorspaces in your other link. 00:24:44 fizzie, oh 00:24:45 + check out the crazy finns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5NEnwp13g4 00:24:50 nobody died 00:26:21 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 00:26:42 There's not so much to do around here, we have to compensate with stuff like that. 00:26:52 "oli aivan huima" 00:28:38 oh my 00:28:51 nooga, how did they manage to survive that 00:28:53 1:56 is pretty 00:29:12 Vorpal: their cars have some mods to make them "deathproof" 00:29:32 nooga, solution: don't drink alcohol. Then you can drive whenever you want. :P ;; yes, drive on cocaine instead 00:29:34 nooga, um... 00:29:41 like cages, 4-point seatbealts and stuff 00:29:48 alise, :D though I didn't say that 00:29:52 they wear helmets 00:30:05 nooga, why don't all cars have that as standard I wonder 00:30:10 would make driving safer 00:30:17 because it takes too much space 00:30:21 oh no 00:30:28 Volvo aims to be deathproof 00:30:48 all basically crash the same way it seems 00:30:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:31:06 I mean, no frontal crash against a brick wall 00:31:08 -!- relet1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:31:16 Deathproof; they'll refund the price if you die, though of course only if you personally visit the dealer. 00:31:33 also the G-forces would be rather nasty 00:31:39 -!- relet has joined. 00:32:03 Aren't there two major problems with 4-point seatbelts: 1) Submarining (with poorly-designed belts) and 2) Neck loads on crash? 00:32:06 I don't think they tend to put brick walls in the middle of racing tracks. 00:32:39 what is submarining 00:33:00 oklopol: Those boats that go underwater. 00:33:13 haha 00:33:29 also how many cars are there 00:33:34 this looks extreme 00:33:39 The article talks about "bleaching"; I don't know enough on how the cells in the eye work to be able to guess if it's the same process or not. ;; Bleach eyes! 00:33:40 new Volvos are extremely smart in saving ppl inside 00:33:45 I would have expected like 10-20 or such 00:34:18 a friend of my father lost control over a Volvo, in summer, almost on ice, in traffic 00:34:42 hm also what about smashed glass or such? that could hit you in the face 00:34:45 or elsewhere 00:35:05 how? 00:35:16 the glass only goes in as much as whatever object pushes it 00:35:23 in which case the glass isn't the issue anyway 00:35:32 he did like 120km/h, the car turned few times and then it managed to get back to the right direction 00:35:38 nooga, in some of those crashes they almost hit bystanders! 00:35:43 leaving driver with wet pants 00:35:43 that is dangerous 00:35:55 -!- relet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:36:12 i read "that is hilarious" 00:36:13 Submarining (seatbelts) is when (with poorly designed seatbelts) crash tends to push person under the seatbelt... 00:36:16 was a bit... out of character 00:36:28 Obiviously not a good thing.... 00:36:33 http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2006-10-20/ 00:36:37 wait i don't get it 00:36:41 And there's a reason I didn't link to the fast version 00:36:50 wait 00:36:51 i do 00:37:05 oklopol, in character for you though 00:37:30 01:33 < nooga> a friend of my father lost control over a Volvo, in summer, almost on ice, in traffic 00:37:31 i doubt it 00:37:33 lol 00:37:40 s/summer/winter/ 00:38:15 In 3-point seatbelts, IIRC submarining is avoided by having the upper belt tighten the lower one in crash... 00:38:39 i guess that one glass of akvavit was too much 00:39:22 i did find it a bit weird that you mentioned it was summer but didn't explain why there was ice 00:39:49 Ilari: eg. in Mercedes SLK the seatbelts every time tighten when the car accelerates rapidly 00:40:02 it's annoying 00:40:08 I don't think they tend to put brick walls in the middle of racing tracks. ;; that would be amazing 00:40:26 i can't get my phone while accelerating 00:40:48 nooga: Volvo's safety record is exaggerated afaik 00:41:14 01:39 < nooga> Ilari: eg. in Mercedes SLK the seatbelts tighten every time when the car accelerates rapidly ** 00:41:26 nooga, wait that video is from different times of the year. Some show snow and some summer 00:41:29 hell 00:41:56 Vorpal: and? 00:42:10 nooga, I thought it was all *one* tournament at first 00:42:15 not quite that bad 00:42:15 :D 00:42:15 nooga: There's no freeways in Manitoba, either. You want onto the Trans-Canada Highway? Stop sign. You want off? Signal and slow down. 00:42:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScRGB ;; is there a colour space containing the entire visible spectrum (and, obviously, more)? 00:42:38 "the finnish crash rally" 00:42:39 IIRC, The X4 seatbelts seen in some Volvos are inferrior to V4's (the more "classical" design). 00:43:04 Ilari: how do you know about all this shit 00:43:05 cpressey: i've heard they have blinking red light in Canada 00:43:21 we get on to some wildly random off-topic thing and you just start pwning everyone with facts 00:43:39 nooga: yeah, and it means different things in different places... 00:43:39 yeah Ilari is awesome 00:43:40 alise, well scRGB doesn't quite do it 00:43:44 Vorpal: precisely 00:43:44 alise, you want LAB or such 00:44:00 cpressey: i've got a friend with canadian driving license 00:44:01 Vorpal: why doesn't everyone use LAB? 00:44:09 and he talks about Montreal every day 00:44:12 alise, not sure. Possibly it is awkward 00:44:37 Displays don't do lab, anyway. 00:44:41 nooga: We have blinking green, too! Very pretty. 00:44:46 wtf 00:44:48 alise, because it has that strange shape that the visible area has 00:44:51 alise, like in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CIE1931xy_blank.svg 00:44:59 Vorpal: that's not the visible area 00:44:59 not sure you you properly code it 00:45:01 that's the area that's in RG 00:45:03 *RGB 00:45:07 big difference 00:45:08 oh 00:45:08 wait 00:45:09 alise, incorrect. 00:45:13 i thought it was a different image you linked to 00:45:17 alise, it has false colours outside 00:45:23 yes 00:45:27 i don't mind that though, why does that matter? 00:45:37 eh? 00:45:44 why do false colours matter? 00:46:04 cpressey: and we've got informal: late green, very late green, and very very late green 00:46:21 alise, no, I meant "false" as in "on your monitor they won't show the proper ones" 00:46:30 alise, I didn't refer to the imaginary ones 00:46:36 Vorpal: oh 00:46:41 Vorpal: well, ofc we just need a magical LAB display 00:46:50 alise, and a file format that supports it 00:46:55 TIFF does i think 00:46:55 cpressey: but only when the police is not around 00:47:00 there's a reference to the TIFF spec in the references section 00:47:03 alise, I'm 99.9% sure that svg, which that is I think, doesn't 00:47:10 imaginary colours, i fail to see how they're a problem; just flag an error if some image operation results in them 00:47:12 in the GPU or whatever 00:48:34 nooga: :) 00:48:35 alise, actually xyY is probably saner than LAB 00:48:46 The outside-the-human-vision values also eat some of the precision, if some coordinate ranges are illegals. 00:49:24 Vorpal: xyY? 00:49:33 fizzie: just use moar bits 00:49:43 71%! 00:49:44 alise, XYZ and xyY are discussed on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIE_1931_color_space 00:49:54 alise, fizzie: just use floating point 00:49:59 moar beets! 00:50:04 intensity 00:50:08 or such 00:50:09 intestines 00:50:10 Isn't the whole point of lab to be more perceptually uniform than the CIE XYZ it's derived from. 00:50:21 fizzie, hm true 00:50:39 Which would be something you's like in an image-processing thing. 00:50:48 true 00:51:26 Still, RGB is a whole lot simpler if you're targeting a RGB screen. 00:51:44 fizzie, sRGB you mean 00:51:48 or? 00:51:52 75%! 00:52:02 Gregor, of what? 00:52:18 fizzie, most TFTs actually have different primaries than the CRT ones that sRGB was designed for 00:52:36 fizzie, but they are artificially restricted by sRGB 00:52:41 Vorpal: You'll see at 100% :P 00:53:05 Gregor, oh this is not 75% of LAB? 00:53:07 Gregor is installing HackFactor 00:53:21 Vorpal: Uhhh, no? 00:53:23 cpressey: Nope :P 00:53:27 Fear Factor. 00:53:31 Hacktor 00:53:32 cpressey, HackFalcon 00:53:35 Max Factor 00:54:01 Fuck archaeology, I'm installing Ubuntu! 00:54:14 alise, archaeology? How so? 00:54:29 FackHalcyon 00:54:42 alise, also isn't it "archeology"? 00:54:53 though aspell seems to accept both 00:55:09 Vorpal: Even my American archaeology class spelled it "archaeology" 00:55:09 it's an aesthetic difference 00:55:25 00:55:30 Gregor, hm 00:55:32 anestetic, time to sleep 00:55:34 cpressey: You mean an esthetic difference, right? :P 00:56:00 gn8 00:56:45 good neight nooga :) 00:57:19 85%! 00:57:29 alise, also isn't it "archeology"? ;; no 00:57:32 even Americans spell it with ae 00:59:15 alise, wikipedia suggests both spellings exist 00:59:31 wikipaedia 00:59:41 :P 00:59:41 Vorpal: nobody says archeology. 00:59:50 my spellcheck doesn't even accept it here 00:59:55 hm 01:00:02 aspell here accepts both so *shrug* 01:00:08 aspell accepts some weird shit. 01:00:21 alise, oh? 01:01:11 well, the dictionary sucks a bit 01:03:23 Gregor is installing Sauerbraten 01:04:05 Gregor is joining Cat's Eye Technologies. 01:04:21 AND I'M 93% IN 01:06:23 At 100 % his AI will become sentient and initiate the singularity. 01:06:30 95%! 01:06:49 Don't worry, it'll be a slow start. 01:06:50 Gregor, it's zee combined with microcosm 01:06:57 You won't know you're obsolete 'til you're already just vapor blowing in the wind. 01:07:01 (sadly I had no time for microcosm recently) 01:07:25 I have, but have been using it on "research" or some such BS. 01:07:32 Also, the thing that's at 99% now. 01:08:05 Gregor, so what is it? 01:08:17 It's always the last percent that takes longest. 01:08:19 Stalled at 99%? 01:08:25 Nowhere near as exciting as I'm making it out to be :P 01:08:32 Well, that was just 100% of the upload, then there's processing ... 01:08:55 Gregor is installing Processing! 01:08:59 No, I might have read that wrong 01:09:19 Gaaaa, screw this, I'll just go and do the thing that I should do that I need to be away for. -> 01:11:52 Stupid processing. 01:11:54 So slow. 01:13:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Processing_(programming_language) 01:13:57 In case my last crack was missed. 01:16:15 Processing is fun. 01:16:27 "When programming in Processing all additional classes defined will be treated as inner classes when the code is translated into pure Java before compiling. This means that the use of static variables and methods in classes is prohibited unless you explicitly tell Processing that you want to code in pure Java mode." 01:16:36 Yes, yes, whatever. 01:16:38 That sounds like a coherent approach to language design right there don't ya know. 01:16:43 You generally don't get code that complex in a Processing applet. 01:16:48 Besides, there's a thing to use Scala with it. 01:16:52 Spde. 01:17:22 If you "use Scala with it" what exactly are you using Scala with? 01:17:54 EVERYTHING 01:18:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04OAykpufuM :) 01:19:09 cpressey: Processing. 01:19:24 oh so gregor's suspense-numbers were youtube upload well that's anticlimactic 01:19:31 Yes :P 01:19:52 maybe if my audio worked in a non-insane way... well i'll bookmark it 01:22:49 Gregor, I think sound is better from your usual uploads? 01:23:18 Vorpal: Purely digital, no analog involved in producing the audio whatsoever. 01:23:33 Gregor, besides the file doesn't load properly 01:23:38 I guess it isn't fully cached 01:23:44 "The file"? 01:23:44 on their servers 01:23:51 ORLY? E_WORKSFORME 01:23:54 Gregor, youtube-dl fails at 7% 01:23:58 then a bit later at 9% 01:24:07 Probably because it wasn't finished "processing" 01:24:17 Not all qualities are available. 01:24:26 ERROR: content too short (expected 59460573 bytes and served 3619891) 01:24:31 Probably because it wasn't finished "processing" 01:24:31 Not all qualities are available. 01:24:38 right 01:24:52 this one tries to download best one reported 01:25:42 night 01:25:45 Bahee 01:25:50 will listen to the rest tomorrow 01:28:12 alise: how goes the finding and installing an os you don't hate thing 01:30:04 (done processing) 01:30:09 my goal for tonight is to write a loop in Pophery 01:32:33 alise: how goes the finding and installing an os you don't hate thing ;; i hate all OSes 01:32:42 That's my opinion on languages ... 01:33:26 that's my opinion on everything 01:38:41 everything has its own unique hatefulnessishness 01:46:01 I'm going to settle for getting Pophery's unit tests to pass 01:47:21 Sgeo: does Factor have unit tests? 01:47:29 Yes 01:48:01 Note that the example unit tests given in the tutorial is a bit off 01:48:15 You should use { } and not [ ] for the result of the executed quotation 01:48:18 [[Ubuntu's famous slogan is (it should "Just Work", TM)]] 01:48:54 Sgeo: not just support for writing unit tests in Factor, I mean, is there a test suite for the language itself? 01:49:37 Considering that most of Factor is written in Factor.. I _think_ so. Don't know about all of it, or about the C++ parts 01:49:44 (At least, I think there are C++ parts) 01:49:48 Hm, OK 01:55:35 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 01:55:37 You can ask people who actually know stuff in #concatenative 02:03:51 I might as well just clone the git repo and look myself :) 02:04:03 -!- alise has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:11:57 -!- derdon has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.). 02:19:53 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 02:28:37 -!- alise has joined. 02:28:40 this is fucked up 02:28:47 I can't copy one contents of an ISO onto this drive without something fucking up 02:29:15 I WILL HAVE ONE CONTENTS PLEASE 02:29:57 seriously the transfer just fails 02:29:59 has my USB drive fucked up? 02:30:03 should i give up on life? 02:30:08 is all ultimately hopeless and futile? 02:32:23 wat 02:33:13 clearly a single fucked up usb drive indicates that all is ultimately hopeless and futile 02:33:24 Seems about right. 02:33:34 much like the piece of fairy cake, ... 02:33:52 E: Failed to fetch http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/q/qt4-x11/libqtcore4_4.6.3-1+b1_amd64.deb: Hash Sum mismatch 02:33:54 FUQ 02:34:06 jesus debian 02:35:54 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:36:19 yeah ubuntu still appears to be my best bet 02:36:27 it's shit but if i avoid flash it... works 02:36:48 cpressey: have I ever mentioned how much I LOVE THIS LAPTOP 02:37:17 alise: not to my knowledge 02:37:21 i have 02:37:22 anyway 02:37:25 I LOVE THIS LAPTOP 02:37:29 alise, why avoid flash? 02:37:38 AV sync issues 02:37:45 I mean, besides the fact that you hate Dot Action 2... oh 02:37:52 I love Dot Action 2, it's just evil. 02:38:20 the AV sync is better with OSSv4. but OSS on Ubuntu is painful. 02:39:16 even unetbootin is failing at it osijfoijf 02:39:22 i think i'll try and run unetbootin from windows. 02:40:15 "These software updates have been issued since Debian GNU/Linux was released.If you don't want to install them now, choose "Update Manager" from the Administraion menu later." 02:40:20 Typos there are from the original. 02:40:27 The lack of space and the misspelled "Administration". 02:40:34 Real professional, Update Manager. 02:41:59 "Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo." 02:42:05 alise: I 02:42:16 I was going to say something then your last line floored me 02:42:26 xD 02:42:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_(anthem) 02:42:44 talk about sucking up there 02:42:45 alise: I don't have any huge pain with flash fwiw, since you basically guided me through getting it installed 02:42:55 cpressey: 64-bit? 02:42:58 i guess not 02:42:59 ahh no. 02:43:03 it's probably worse here 02:43:06 since we have to use a wrapper 02:43:14 lame li'l 32-bit laptop here 02:43:36 awesome li'l 64-bit laptop here 02:43:57 brb 02:44:04 -!- alise has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:59:15 `addquote "Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo." alise: I I was going to say something then your last line floored me 02:59:25 221| "Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo." alise: I I was going to say something then your last line floored me 03:01:01 Annoying thing about stack-based and concatenative languages: The order of arguments is a significant design choice 03:05:55 * Gregor voodoos Plof at Sgeo :P 03:11:51 ` 03:11:52 No output. 03:11:56 `quote 03:12:00 189| ais523: killer bunnies can be harmed by domesticated canines only. 03:13:50 marf 03:26:35 It's been a long time since I frunged assembly, so somebody remind me: Is it the duty of the caller or the callee to save potentially-clobbered registers? 03:30:05 (On x86 and x86_64) 03:31:02 Sgeo: that's a bit the case for curried functional languages like haskell, too 03:31:38 ambiet VIII is really beautiful 03:31:40 With the vocals 03:32:23 `quote 03:32:24 80| I think hamsters cannot be inert. 03:32:27 `quote 03:32:28 180| what's the data of? [...] Locations in a now deceased game called Mutation I have no problems with you being interested in online games but the necrophilia is disturbing 03:32:29 Or maybe despite the vocals 03:32:37 `quote 03:32:38 No output. 03:32:41 `quote 03:32:51 `quote 03:32:57 No output. 03:33:04 `quote 03:33:14 No output. 03:33:16 OHHEY! 03:33:18 did it just stop working? 03:33:19 Finally it's broken, good 03:33:19 stuck again 03:33:24 No output. 03:33:24 does it have a quota of quotes? 03:33:29 `help 03:33:30 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 03:33:31 "Finally"? 03:33:32 No, it just gets broken sometimes. 03:33:34 `quote 03:33:40 Oh, debugging time? 03:33:51 No output. 03:34:04 `ls 03:34:22 No output. 03:34:34 The songs appear to be in lexical order 03:34:40 Which is wrong 03:34:42 I've been waiting for it to break so I can see if I can debug it :P 03:34:47 i think `help is pretty much the only thing that works in that state 03:35:04 `fortune 03:35:20 No output. 03:35:30 The `help command will work because it doesn't fork anything. 03:36:40 ambiet X is also great 03:37:00 fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable D-8 03:37:23 I LOVE THOS SONG! 03:37:27 THIS 03:37:46 http://www.archive.org/download/Torley_Wong_-_The_Final_Selection/Torley_Wong-ambiet_X.mp3 03:38:18 Gregor: running out of PIDs or something? 03:38:38 oerjan: I think I set the rlimit on the wrong side of the uid changeover D-8 03:39:08 I feel... like I produce less than everyone else here 03:39:30 Yup, I did. 03:40:19 Gregor: you mean like the limit applies to _all_ invocations of HackEgo commands and not just to _one_? 03:40:56 oerjan: Even worse, since that UID is shared by Hackiki and a few other bots too :) 03:41:10 oh 03:42:27 `ls 03:42:28 awklisp \ babies \ bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ qw.pl \ share \ tmpdir.31035 \ wunderbar_emporium 03:42:30 :) 03:42:36 Fixed -- for good! 03:42:41 (I hope) 03:42:46 famous last words 03:43:12 :P 03:43:30 i'm _sure_ there's a tvtrope for this 03:43:48 For computer programming? 03:44:06 Does anybody know the answer to my registers question? ... 03:44:56 < Gregor> I've been waiting for it to break so I can see if I can debug it :P <-- welcome to computer science 03:44:56 * oerjan only vaguely recalls that interrupts let the callee save, just for security reasons 03:45:14 Gregor: re registers: it depends on the convention! 03:45:14 and i picked that up from some discussion here i think 03:45:33 cpressey: Of course. Standard UNIX C. 03:45:57 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:46:01 I'm asking this because I'm trying to define a new (non-C) calling convention and need to know how it will interact with C :P 03:46:34 Gregor: 'cdecl' > 03:46:38 s/>/?/ 03:47:05 -!- alise has joined. 03:47:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_calling_conventions 03:47:23 Why didn't I think to look at Wikipedia ... 03:47:30 "On Linux, gcc is the de-facto standard for calling conventions." 03:47:33 Because WIKIPEDIA IS FASCISM. 03:47:36 not the gcc is a calling convention 03:47:38 but whatever 03:47:44 *that 03:48:14 Sgeo: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TemptingFate 03:49:00 a//b 03:49:14 with a bunch of subtropes for more specific occasions (i don't see a computer one though) 03:49:37 Caller push. 03:49:52 Go-tit, thankee Wikip! 03:50:01 Why are all Linux fonts so terrible??? 03:50:42 Why are all fontophiles so terrible ... 03:50:55 Well, okay, DejaVu is nice. 03:50:58 But there's nothing beyond that. 03:51:04 Bitstream Charter, okay. 03:51:05 Droid, okay. 03:51:06 It ends there. 03:51:15 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:51:21 Gregor: I'm not a fontophile who just wants to stuff every typeface I can into something >_< 03:51:36 COMIC SANS FOREVER 03:51:44 Droid Sans is weird as an IRC font. 03:52:41 `quote 03:52:43 181| Gregor-P: I don't think lambda calculus is powerful enough 03:53:17 `quote 03:53:18 109| What do you call the husband of my first cousin once removed? Warrigal: "Hey, Sexy." 03:56:08 be careful to remove him first though 03:56:46 brb 03:56:48 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:56:56 -!- alise has joined. 03:57:10 -!- alise has quit (Client Quit). 03:57:17 -!- alise has joined. 03:58:48 Blergh, there's no repository of X-Chat colour themes. 03:58:52 Like one that doesn't spew purple everywher. 03:58:54 *everywhere. 03:59:12 I want a colour theme that matches the Plof wiki 04:00:27 HUh, I swear it was uglier earlier today 04:01:01 There's a specialized Plof wiki? 04:01:02 cpressey: It re-schemes itself. 04:01:06 Sgeo: 04:01:09 http://plof.codu.org/wiki/ 04:01:12 s/Sgeo: /Sgeo:/ 04:01:42 It's not an esolang? 04:01:48 ... 04:02:09 * Sgeo seriously thought it was intended to be an esolang 04:02:22 Before I, you know, just now actually decided to read about it 04:03:00 It's a WUNDERLANG 04:05:29 Also, rhododendrons. 04:05:50 `quote 04:05:52 29|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: there is plenty of room to get head twice at once 04:05:55 rhododendron is a lovely word 04:06:00 `quote 28 04:06:01 28| there is plenty of room to have two heads 04:06:04 `quote 30 04:06:06 30| In an alternate universe, ehird has taste 04:06:10 `quote 31 04:06:12 31|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, ehird has taste" 04:06:15 `quote 32 04:06:16 32| so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers 04:06:18 `quote 33 04:06:20 33|IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler! 04:06:26 `quote 34 04:06:27 34|SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTO EL MUNDO): i tan solo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo esta absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce! 04:06:30 `quote 35 04:06:31 35|PA ET ANNET UNIVERSET DER DE ENESTE PERSONEN OERJAN: sa jeg kan bare konkludere med at det er feil, eller er verden helt bonkers 04:06:34 `quote 36 04:06:35 36| ehird: There is no h in "honour" 04:06:43 cpressey: The Alternate Universe story arc! 04:06:52 Courtesy of me and Google Translate. 04:07:05 In an alternate universe, there are no hypotheticals 04:07:09 I see 04:07:47 that's some broken norwegian up there 04:07:56 * Sgeo logs in to the Plof wiki 04:08:20 oerjan: I had to convert the øs, for a start, since EgoBot was being sucky. 04:08:23 If I recall correctly. 04:08:39 and å too, but even so the grammar is insane :D 04:09:31 well for the part before the colon, the remainder isn't that crazy 04:10:50 I ET ANNET UNIVERS DER OERJAN ER ENESTE PERSON would be the correct grammar 04:11:24 well assuming it means what i think it means 04:11:39 (it accidentally the verb too) 04:12:14 -!- wareya_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:12:41 oerjan: it probably means what you think it means, since there's this nice Rosetta stone thing going on for context 04:13:09 s/eller/ellers/ as well, otherwise the meaning is not the same as ehird's original 04:13:28 -!- wareya has joined. 04:14:22 (with just eller it means "or is the world completely bonkers") 04:15:40 hm is bonkers a norwegian word 04:16:07 i'm pretty sure i've heard it 04:16:41 I'm pretty sure YouTube used to make it possible to allow downloading of videos (without youtube-dl or similar) 04:16:48 But it doesn't seem to now. 04:18:20 cpressey: well the rosetta thing breaks down for the part "DER DE ENESTE PERSONEN OERJAN" since it clearly doesn't mean that i conquered anything. well unless i killed everyone else, i guess. 04:18:25 Gregor: Never has. 04:18:32 Gregor: However, Google Video *always* has. 04:19:10 I thought Google Video had near faded out of existence since YouTube ... 04:19:15 was bought by Google ... 04:19:31 Google Video has ceased to host new videos. 04:19:40 Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight 04:19:40 It remains as a video-specific search engine. 04:19:44 So that's pretty unhelpful :P 04:20:03 youtube-dl is still handy, though. ;) 04:20:19 I could of course host this video on codu.org ... pretty pointless either way *shrugs* 04:20:32 Ffff okay what IRC clients do you people use. Name it if it's not XChat or terminal-based. 04:20:45 *chirp* 04:20:48 Used to use Konversation 04:21:02 Does XChat-GNOME count as XChat? 04:21:05 hm chirp could be a nice name for a client 04:21:17 Sgeo: you use XChat-GNOME? 04:21:18 seriously? 04:21:18 Never used Konversation, but if it's as good as Kopete, go with X-Chat :P 04:21:20 alise, used to 04:21:26 it hasn't seen a release since ... 2007 or something 04:21:26 alise: *chirp* 04:21:30 Gregor: Konversation is better. But... 04:21:32 A long time ago 04:21:35 I'm sorta using GNOME. 04:21:41 I've used Konversation a *bit*. It kinda sucks. 04:21:42 ah it exists, for twitter 04:21:48 pikhq: it's not /so/ bad, though 04:21:51 alise has the same psychosis I do! 04:21:59 What? 04:21:59 But only in comparison with other pure-IRC clients. 04:22:15 It's still a *lot* better than IM clients that happen to have IRC. 04:22:16 Not wanting to mix Qt with GNOME and GTK+ with KDE 04:22:30 Uhh, that's just a desire for interface and visual consistency. 04:22:34 Not a psychosis, at least in my case... 04:22:51 Sgeo: I mix Qt with XFCE. Though only because Qt's GTK theme works pretty much perfectly... 04:23:09 If it weren't for that, I would throw one or the other away. 04:23:31 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:24:26 I used to use blackbox 04:24:53 I used to use Fluxbox. 04:25:05 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:25:13 -!- alise has joined. 04:25:24 I use to used poor grammar. 04:25:31 -!- alise has quit (Client Quit). 04:25:38 -!- alise has joined. 04:25:44 -!- alise has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:25:52 -!- alise has joined. 04:25:57 Sometimes it feels to me as if I'm just being used. 04:26:01 (Is the meme dead yet?) 04:26:29 alise, I don't remember that meme? 04:27:31 Okay seriously someone has to use a Linux graphical client that isn't XChat here. 04:28:03 Isn't BitchX graphical? 04:28:08 And Linuxy? 04:28:09 if you did'nt say Linux I would have mentioned that I use Pidgin 04:28:18 ... 04:28:21 Pidgin? 04:28:25 BitchX is textual.................................................................................... 04:28:26 BURN IT WITH FIRE 04:28:28 pikhq, cpressey is trolling 04:28:32 cpressey: Firstly, Pidgin is primarily a Linux client. 04:28:35 Secondly, Sgeo, no. 04:28:38 He actually uses Pidgin. 04:28:39 Sgeo: TROLL AND PITCHFORK 04:28:48 WE SHALL TROLL AND PITCHFORK HIM 04:28:50 Thirdly, cpressey, never utter those words. Just -- don't. 04:28:51 pikhq: In Windows. Because for bad reasons. 04:29:01 Pidgin exists for Linux, you know 04:29:12 cpressey: Permission requested to murder you deeply. 04:29:15 Not that I'd recommend it for IRC 04:29:22 I know it exists for Linux, but I guess I consider it "cross platform". 04:29:29 It's *GTK*. 04:29:38 O, what kind of features are you looking for in a IRC client, anyways, you can just write one or modify an existing IRC client program 04:29:39 I more meant "available on Linux at all". 04:29:43 So, "not mIRC". 04:29:48 I mainly use it to connect to a Jabber server at work. 04:29:49 GTK is the least cross-platform cross-platform UI. 04:29:51 Although it may have been my first IRC client 04:29:57 pikhq, o.O? 04:30:04 UI toolkit, I mean. 04:30:10 Howso? 04:30:12 Sgeo: It looks non-native everywhere but Gnome. 04:30:18 Sgeo: it's awful on OS X 04:30:21 Ah 04:30:21 And XFCE... 04:30:22 it's imperfect on Windows 04:30:28 and it was even more imperfect on Windows a few years ago 04:30:38 it doesn't have a Qt native theme, either 04:30:38 Qt mandates C++ usage 04:30:41 (Qt has a GTK+ one) 04:30:45 pikhq: If it will make you feel better, I will not use Pidgin for IRC ever again. I'm sure I can find irssi under cygwin or something. 04:30:49 alise: mIRC works great in wine. 04:30:53 Which makes it a bitch from non-C++ languages 04:30:54 cpressey: Just... use mIRC. 04:31:01 Gregor: Do... do you actually do this? 04:31:06 alise: No :P 04:31:12 /phew 04:31:13 GTK+ at least can have bindings in any language with a C FFI 04:31:20 Bad memories of mIRC. 04:31:28 Factor, incidentally, may eventually have a C++ FFI 04:31:31 cpressey: It's okay with like three bits of configuration. 04:31:37 cpressey: You could also use ChatZilla's standalone version. 04:31:43 Wait, how does PyQt work? 04:31:53 Sgeo: By using a C++ FFI. 04:31:56 Probably SWIG. 04:31:57 ChatZilla has a standalone version? 04:32:01 http://chatzilla.rdmsoft.com/xulrunner/ 04:32:15 Either SWIG or manually create C bindings and then bind *those*. 04:32:16 alise: Any suggestions for something that connect to Jabber and IRC and doesn't suck? 04:32:17 cpressey, what's wrong with Silverex? 04:32:26 Sgeo: first I've heard of it 04:32:30 cpressey: You don't want both in the same client. 04:32:33 cpressey: Don't use Silverex. 04:32:39 Silverex is just a mediocre XChat build for Windows. 04:32:40 alise, why not? 04:32:46 Or, if you're particularly crazy, *link directly against C++*. 04:32:58 cpressey: Seriously: you want a separate IM and IRC client. 04:33:22 (this is just *barely* possible on many UNIX systems, courtesy of using basically the same calling convention for C and C++.) 04:33:28 BitlBee! (not a serious recommendation) 04:33:38 alise: ... since I am mostly talking in Jabber "chatrooms", the functionality is basically identical. 04:33:39 In my opinion PHIRC is good, but it doesn't support Jabber (unless you can write a protocol plugin). It might not have the feature you want though (but it is possible to modify the program!) 04:33:49 (have to do your own name-mangling and handling of this, though) 04:33:59 Sgeo: I use Bitlbee, and have for years. 04:34:14 But I don't use other kind of IM anyways. I don't use AIM and MSN and those things 04:34:24 cpressey: ah. 04:34:26 cpressey: use bitlbee 04:34:29 for jabber, then 04:34:29 It's not *great*, but I've not really found any other clients that don't make me want to stab someone. 04:34:31 * Sgeo uses Pidgin for everything except IRC 04:34:32 that's what i did for megabreds 04:34:34 IRC is works even for private message 04:34:38 ^ bitlbee ^ 04:34:41 bit of a screwy on-IRC interface, but once you're in a channel it's good 04:34:44 cpressey: you use an IRC client 04:34:50 and connect to a local bitlbee server 04:34:53 which connects to jabber 04:34:55 and relays it back to IRC 04:35:05 so, I have to run my own local server. 04:35:09 not a plus, but ok 04:35:13 cpressey: there is a windows binary 04:35:16 it just goes into a little tray icon 04:35:19 and runs entirely locally 04:35:30 There's also a public server, iirc 04:35:31 I can try it 04:35:32 so really the only noticeable effect is that you can't listen on port 9999 or whatever 04:35:35 But why would you trust it? 04:35:36 Sgeo: if you trust them with your passwords. 04:35:39 * Sgeo looks around sheepishly 04:35:43 being able to use irssi to talk on the jabber things would be nice 04:35:45 You trusted it. 04:35:51 or tinyirc or whatever 04:36:25 Lo! 04:36:29 I also kind of trust Meebo and eBuddy :/ 04:37:00 Well, did something that I should only do with entities I extremely trust 04:37:31 OH THE BROKEN FOCE 04:37:31 It is possible to write a protocol plugin for PHIRC, to support other protocols. You must program in: 04:37:48 PHP, for starters 04:37:50 iirc 04:38:02 * A conversion between IRC syntax and the protocol you are working with (it does not have to be IRC commands, it only has to follow the same syntax) 04:38:15 * What command is typed when the line starts with the space bar 04:38:43 * Any automated functions that are used in the protocol 04:38:51 zzo38, were you on IRC before you wrote PHIRC? 04:39:04 Sgeo: Yes, but I used netcat. PHIRC is much better for IRC, though. 04:39:45 What did you use for web browsing before Vonkeror? netcat? 04:39:46 Shoulda used RawIRC. 04:40:15 Conkeror. 04:40:34 -!- augur has joined. 04:40:36 Sgeo: I used various programs for web browser, but they all had problems. Vonkeror has problems too but it is what I have, and at least it works. 04:41:07 I feel so boring 04:41:40 cpressey, because you didn't write your own IRC client and web browser? You still wrote how many esolangs? I should feel boring 04:41:50 -!- augur has quit (Client Quit). 04:41:51 What do I do? Make one barely-interesting -> non-interesting projec 04:41:53 project 04:41:58 cpressey: YOU SHOULD! YOU DO NOTHING INTERESTING AT ALL 04:42:02 One day, when all our faddish systems have died out and Ubuntu is but a Bantu word long forgotten, zzo38's code will be preserved crisply in its digital home that survives into the future. 04:42:03 PHIRC is different than most IRC clients, but that is different program is supposed to be different than the other protogram, anyways. 04:42:04 And then just disappear from the face of the community 04:42:17 And when our future selves look back to see what technological wonders our generation created... 04:42:23 ...all the world's tabs will be green. 04:42:28 Ponder that. 04:42:33 Some people do not like it that PHIRC is different than the other program. But in my opinion, I like the way of PHIRC better than other IRC client program. 04:43:00 Just don't write anything too similar to SSDS 04:43:01 I'd hope you do. 04:43:04 After all, you wrote it. 04:43:22 Or at least, with its coding style 04:43:29 And braindead evangelism 04:43:51 Why do you use random acronyms you know we don't know the expansions of? 04:44:09 alise: TLAAW 04:44:24 http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHNR_enUS321US321&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=SpectateSwamp+Desktop+Searc`h#hl=en&rlz=1C1CHNR_enUS321US321&sa=X&ei=d0yMTI2_CoGdlge40qhg&ved=0CBIQvwUoAQ&q=SpectateSwamp+Desktop+Search&spell=1&fp=6052204b889acdd8 04:44:25 AFSLJDSPFJPOSJDOIASLKNMFMHDB 04:44:32 Wow, sucky URLness 04:44:49 Sgeo: Oh right, because I should instantly know that SSDS → Spectate Swamp Desktop Search. 04:44:52 You know, with my telepathy. 04:44:52 Sgeo: SSDS? Do you mean SpectateSwamp Desktop Search? I agree SSDS is very badly implemented, many of these functions could be done using some UNIX commands, and stuff like that 04:45:19 alise: (I knew, I started typing this message before anyone else said it was that?) 04:45:31 Right, but I didn't know. 04:45:40 * Sgeo was expecting alise to know >.> 04:45:55 Note to self: zzo38 is the telepath, not alise. 04:48:38 -!- augur has joined. 04:48:40 How many monster characters are in your group at D&D? (Is the answer a natural number? (Note: I consider zero also be a natural number, as well as all positive integers)) 04:48:54 Sgeo: yeah i hate google's redirects too 04:49:00 -498573982798245628374956829345689732465289756432895692835689345683429765893465928374659832465.4 04:49:03 No, it is not a natural number. 04:49:17 alise: I can see that. But I don't believe your answer 04:49:26 I am offended. 04:49:36 Nullity! 04:49:47 Then perhaps explain your D&D game, and then maybe I can understand more better your answers too 04:50:16 My D&D game is played solely on LSD. It exists only in the mind. 04:50:28 Well, one day, there were 1 monsters to be distributed, but 0 players 04:50:30 alise: O, OK. Now I believe your answer 04:50:32 `addquote < alise> Why do you use random acronyms you know we don't know the expansions of? < pikhq> alise: TLAAW 04:50:34 222|< alise> Why do you use random acronyms you know we don't know the expansions of? < pikhq> alise: TLAAW 04:50:43 As the realisation quickly dawns that we are all one person and bodies are just an illusion that perpetuates the falsity that we have distinct consciousnesses, there is only one player, and they are everyone. 04:50:52 So we divided the monsters up equally 04:50:53 Sgeo: If there is no player, there can be no play game??!! 04:51:00 `revert 04:51:01 Done. 04:51:03 Sgeo: O, now I understand your answer 04:51:04 `addquote Why do you use random acronyms you know we don't know the expansions of? alise: TLAAW 04:51:07 cpressey: Anal. Sorry. 04:51:10 223| Why do you use random acronyms you know we don't know the expansions of? alise: TLAAW 04:51:31 Then, we spawned the monsters 0 times 04:51:54 There were then Nullity monsters 04:51:56 IANAL 04:52:14 alise: And if that is the answer, how many normal character in your group of D&D? (Is *this* answer the natural number, at least?) 04:52:16 Sgeo: Yes. 04:52:29 zzo38: Nothing is normal in LSD&D. 04:52:33 (Nullity is zero divided by zero (I think)) 04:52:40 alise: OK 04:52:53 Or, well, NaN 04:52:57 But you can't divide by zero. But at least now there is a word for dividing zero by zero, anyways. 04:52:59 zzo38: No, I'm joking; there are actually 808017424794512875886459904961710757005754368000000000 monsters. 04:53:19 alise: As player characters? Or non-player characters? Or both? 04:53:28 Well, they all play a part. 04:53:39 Or are the number of player and non-player both not natural but add up to a natural number? 04:53:45 !which factor 04:53:46 2/0 = 4/0 != 3/0 = 1/0 = 2/0 04:53:51 I don't want to be the D&D-playing torso. 04:53:58 erm 04:54:05 alise: What is the "D&D-playing torso"? 04:54:09 `run which factor 04:54:10 `which factor 04:54:11 /usr/bin/factor 04:54:13 /usr/bin/factor 04:54:15 Oooooh!!!! 04:54:15 The non-natural fraction of the number of players. 04:54:21 Sgeo: it factors numbers, fanboy. 04:54:26 `run run which factor 04:54:28 `factor 808017424794512875886459904961710757005754368000000000 04:54:28 No output. 04:54:30 No output. 04:54:31 O_O 04:54:33 `factor 33 04:54:34 33: 3 11 04:54:38 `factor "Hello world" print 04:54:38 apparently its not fully recursive 04:54:39 No output. 04:54:46 `factor 808017424794512875886459904961710757005754368000000000 04:54:46 Aww 04:54:47 augur: of course not 04:54:48 No output. 04:54:50 it has some commands 04:54:52 that aren't unix commands 04:54:55 like run, help, revert 04:54:59 alise: OK. I guess the LSD&D can be all strange and impossible, so therefore now I know 04:55:06 But therefore I don't know. 04:55:08 alise: i got kiss raped tonight 04:55:11 See? 04:55:13 zzo38: Actually, it's group D&D. 04:55:29 useless factoring program 04:55:32 Monster group D&D. 04:55:39 `factor 0 04:55:40 0: 04:55:45 `factor -6 04:55:46 No output. 04:55:54 alise: O! Monster group D&D. Now I understand. 04:55:58 `run factor -6 2>&1 04:55:58 `factor 666 04:56:02 666: 2 3 3 37 04:56:02 /usr/bin/factor: invalid option -- '6' \ Try `/usr/bin/factor --help' for more information. 04:56:21 `ls / 04:56:23 bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr 04:56:24 `run factor -- -6 2>&1 04:56:26 /usr/bin/factor: `-6' is not a valid positive integer 04:56:27 `run factor -- -6 2>&1 # Will this work? 04:56:29 /usr/bin/factor: `-6' is not a valid positive integer 04:56:36 `echo $PATH 04:56:37 $PATH 04:56:42 >( 04:56:52 `echo "$PATH" 04:56:53 "$PATH" 04:57:01 `run echo "$PATH" 04:57:02 /tmp/hackenv.1794/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 04:57:03 No! You need to run it in the shell! 04:57:05 Bash is weird 04:57:08 `factor 808017424794512875886459904961710757005754368 04:57:10 No output. 04:57:28 I will never be talked. 04:57:30 `ls /tmp/hackenv.1794/bin 04:57:32 No output. 04:57:38 `factor 33333333333333333333333333333 04:57:39 `ls /usr/bin 04:57:41 No output. 04:57:43 2to3-2.6 \ X11 \ [ \ a2p \ addpart \ addr2line \ apropos \ apt-cache \ apt-cdrom \ apt-config \ apt-extracttemplates \ apt-ftparchive \ apt-get \ apt-key \ apt-mark \ apt-sortpkgs \ aptitude \ aptitude-create-state-bundle \ aptitude-curses \ aptitude-run-state-bundle \ ar \ arch \ as \ awk \ axi-cache \ base64 \ basename \ bashbug 04:57:47 `run factor 33333333333333333333333333333 2>&1 04:57:48 /usr/bin/factor: `33333333333333333333333333333' is too large 04:57:58 `run ls /tmp/hackenv.1794/bin 04:58:00 No output. 04:58:08 `ls /bin 04:58:10 bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ less 04:58:30 * cpressey suspects there's more in both those directories 04:58:36 `run dmesg 04:58:38 CP SPT=55373 DPT=1182 WINDOW=5840 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 \ [322228.464846] Shorewall:net2fw:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=aa:00:00:59:ad:41:00:50:c2:98:e7:2e:08:00 SRC=85.190.0.3 DST=64.62.173.65 LEN=60 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=56 ID=64391 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=35942 DPT=8000 WINDOW=5840 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 \ [322228.464920] Shorewall:net2fw:DROP:IN=eth0 04:58:51 `run dmesg | tail 04:58:52 [558479.134212] Shorewall:net2fw:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=aa:00:00:59:ad:41:00:50:c2:98:e7:2e:08:00 SRC=59.50.95.103 DST=64.62.173.65 LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=109 ID=256 PROTO=TCP SPT=6000 DPT=3389 WINDOW=16384 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 \ [559599.708679] Shorewall:net2fw:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=aa:00:00:59:ad:41:00:50:c2:98:e7:2e:08:00 04:59:41 `run df -j 04:59:43 No output. 04:59:45 `run df -h 04:59:47 No output. 04:59:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:59:56 `run df 04:59:57 -!- augur has joined. 04:59:59 No output. 05:00:11 `run df 2>&1 05:00:14 /bin/df: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory 05:00:27 always a reassuring message 05:00:42 `run mount 05:00:45 rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) \ none on /sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) \ none on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) \ udev on /dev type tmpfs (rw,relatime,size=10240k,mode=755) \ /dev/disk/by-label/PRGMRDISK1 on / type ext3 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro,data=ordered) \ tmpfs on /lib/init/rw type tmpfs 05:00:55 `run echo $PATH 05:00:56 /tmp/hackenv.2556/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 05:00:57 * pikhq has the odd suspicion that Gregor would like prog rock... 05:01:13 cpressey: the number changes with each command 05:01:16 pikhq: as long as it's rubato 05:01:36 molto rubato! 05:01:38 cpressey: ... 05:01:57 IcedTea is a perfectly acceptable JVM, right? 05:02:03 Gregor: domo arigato molto rubato 05:02:34 "Domo arikàtô moruto ruhàto", you mean. 05:02:35 alise: IcedTea is HotSpot. 05:02:45 I mean the libraries and whatnot. 05:02:52 And yes, IcedTea is perfectly acceptable. I've been using it for a couple of years now with no problems. 05:03:26 rubatissimo 05:03:30 alise: The libraries are the standard JDK suite of libraries, with an extremely few bits replaced by open alternatives. Emphasis on "extremely few". The chances of you running into any issues is very low. 05:03:45 Alright then. 05:03:47 oerjan: "really quite stolen" 05:04:02 xD 05:04:17 as stolen as possible 05:04:29 Gregor: Said few bits were coincidentally done 100% perfectly by GCJ, IIRC. 05:04:41 prisencolinensinainciusol 05:04:43 So they just ported that over and had a full JVM in a weekend. 05:04:49 Pretty much. 05:05:14 alise: bless you 05:05:30 oerjan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcUi6UEQh00 05:08:05 -!- myndzi has joined. 05:08:27 Gregor: Prog rock, just BTW, is basically rock that is not simplistic. :P 05:10:13 pikhq: well it depends 05:10:21 "prog" on its own has come to denote a certain genre in a way 05:10:30 distinct from older progressive rock 05:10:34 * cpressey cranks up the RUSH 05:10:46 *Rush 05:10:50 * pikhq is a-listening to Kansas' Magnum Opus (from Leftoverture) 05:10:55 (lang name habit) 05:11:08 PNKFLD 05:11:15 Please make some music with non-standard temperament 05:11:26 zzo38: Temperament? 05:11:26 I have a non-standard temperament. I'M ALWAYS ANGRY 05:11:27 And we cannot neglect Jethro Tull here 05:11:38 cpressey: Alas, I lack Jethro Tull. 05:11:42 cpressey: Yes! The agricultural pioneer. 05:11:55 alise: Not quite what I meant, though. But it is a start. 05:12:16 alise: YES 05:12:21 Also, "Yes" 05:12:35 pikhq: It's interesting how close some genres get to classical. 05:12:41 pikhq: I mean, like instead of using twelve-tone equal temperament, use something else, such as pythagorean, just intonation, Bohlen-Pierce, or whatever else 05:12:53 Both rational and irrational temperaments can be used. 05:12:57 Various genres of metal get quite close to classical quite often... 05:13:15 alise: Anyways. It's most notable for actually having complex music, as opposed to most other forms of rock music... 05:13:22 I swear there are some things that Rammstein does musically that are not far from Bach. 05:13:25 But yeah, metal tends to do that too. 05:13:36 <3 xkcdb.com 05:13:45 pikhq: Post-rock is also as complex as progressive, and very close to classical. 05:13:46 (Equal temperament is irrational. Most other kinds of temperaments are rational. Both ways work, for different kind of music.) 05:13:50 In fact it's got very little rock in it. 05:14:08 There are guitars in it. Often they're played with a bow or some other such ridiculous stuff. Occasionally they're even overdriven. 05:14:10 alise: Okay, I guess other forms of popular rock music. 05:14:15 Fair enough. 05:14:30 Post-rock is a subgenre of progressive rock, I suppose. 05:14:35 Perhaps. 05:14:49 ♫ LOVE, LOVE ME DO ♫ 05:14:49 * Sgeo hits alise with a Bucket 05:14:50 Is that short for "post-modern rock" 05:14:56 Or "post-post-modern rock" 05:15:09 cpressey: I *hate* early Beatles. 05:15:13 cpressey: *Hate hate hate*. 05:15:20 early beatles = monkees 05:15:21 pikhq: I thought at least *one* person here would.. 05:15:32 Those guys damned well needed marijuana. 05:15:35 I was going for "regressive rock". 05:15:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:15:39 * Sgeo hates anyone who uses the word hate for any reason, including obvious quotations, even quotations that don't have quote marks. 05:15:41 I am not the biggest Beatles fan. 05:16:01 alise: Second half of their career had a lot of good stuff. 05:16:17 Yeah, I know. 05:16:23 Most music is the same to me: Awesome 05:16:39 Sgeo: Including yourself? 05:16:45 * pikhq is, oddly enough, quite fond of what most people just call "bizarre and pretentious" of theirs. 05:16:47 zzo38, that was the point 05:16:49 Mmm, "Revolution Nine". 05:17:08 Revolution Nine is... a botched attempt at creating something avant garde, imo. 05:17:35 * Sgeo youtubes 05:17:44 * Sgeo verbs websites 05:17:45 you've never heard Revolution Nine? 05:17:47 you're really weird. 05:17:54 *Revolution 9 05:17:57 WE'RE ALL SO WRONG 05:18:06 Try writing a few notes in non-standard temperament, even just for experiment at first 05:18:13 Actually every time I read "The White Album" it irks me. 05:18:21 alise: Proto-techno, perhaps. 05:18:27 It's ... not techno. 05:18:31 Erm. 05:18:34 Wrong. Word. 05:18:36 Think. 05:18:38 Musique concrète, yes. 05:18:41 I have found a song that really grates my ears! 05:18:47 Sgeo: Which is? 05:18:51 Revolution 9 05:18:57 You might know the standard music follow the frequency 2^(n/12) 05:19:10 Maybe it was just one ... /me ills 05:19:15 Now try making music with frequencies 3^(n/13) instead 05:19:16 *grates* your ears? 05:19:19 Sgeo: It's not commonly appreciated. 05:19:21 it's not very interesting, but grates? 05:19:43 yeah i might actually try it for once 05:19:48 What with being rather bizarre for a rock band. 05:19:50 :P 05:19:52 alise, well, parts, at least 05:19:57 Wait what? 05:20:21 cpressey: Mmm? 05:20:23 actually is there a good, open-source program for composing in bohlen-pierce? 05:20:26 zzo38: I'm pretty sure I tried a non-standard temperament once on a C64. 05:20:45 * Sgeo rinses his ears with Torley Linden 05:21:04 Hey, GreaseMonkey: What is your quit message supposed to mean? 05:21:15 It means LIFE. 05:21:16 GreaseMonkey: I don't know. What I would like to have is something that you can compose any temperament, like METAFONT but with music 05:21:26 cpressey: lemme find it, it's from a megazeux game 05:21:30 Also sort of like TeX but with music. 05:21:34 you'll need to change one byte from 01 to 02 05:21:42 TeX but with music -- you mean LilyPond. 05:21:47 GreaseMonkey: that is indeed a start on the quest for its meaning 05:21:53 as it was misconverted 05:22:06 alise: Not quite... I mean something a bit different, it is harder to explain. 05:22:14 It is not simply like TeX or METAFONT 05:22:27 zzo38: like something that can output to midi too? 05:22:29 http://vault.digitalmzx.net/show.php?id=1446 05:22:31 cpressey: ^ 05:22:34 But also somewhat like MML (Music Macro Language), but that you can redefine, and stuff 05:22:37 apparently the fixed version was uploaded 05:22:53 And now: Decemberists. 05:22:54 you'll need megazeux 05:23:17 -!- sebbu2 has quit (*.net *.split). 05:23:17 -!- myndzi\ has quit (*.net *.split). 05:23:18 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (*.net *.split). 05:23:22 You could have output to MIDI, but would be prefer a different format so that you can write the synthesis as well, and also macros, and other things 05:23:27 GreaseMonkey: I am enlightened. and I approve. 05:25:19 I also have a fork of MegaZeux. Which one you use depend on various things. Old world files are better using my program, also there is new features. New files with the newest format require the official one (from the vault). Also the official one you can get for many operating system you do not have to compile it by yourself 05:25:47 someone needs to turn megazeux into an operating system 05:26:15 cpressey: I have no intention for such a things though. 05:26:55 drat 05:27:41 But if you have question about some internal function of MegaZeux, or about the new features that I have added in to MegaZeux, you can ask a question 05:28:17 have you ever played Rings of Zon? It's no MegaZeux, but it's similar 05:28:58 nope :/ 05:29:02 cpressey: No. 05:29:11 is it ZZT by any chance? 05:29:20 And I can't find a Wikipedia page for Rings of Zon 05:29:54 More MegaZeux game is my game series "Super ASCII MZX Town". 05:30:01 It was a pretty obscure game (Amiga only I think) 05:30:07 ZZT is also a nice game 05:30:18 In Part II (not finish yet), it even has talking spiders and talking tree. And also the Spanish Inquisition. And other things. 05:30:30 ZZT is really quite screwy 05:30:38 you can do so much with player clones 05:30:43 GreaseMonkey: Yes it is, and they even lost the source-codes 05:30:49 and there's several ways to crash it 05:31:04 my personal favourite is to put a movement command inside a scroll 05:31:12 But one project I work on is the "CZZT", which is a reimplementation of ZZT written in Enhanced CWEB and SDL 05:31:34 And then this program can also be published as a book, too. 05:31:53 that reminds me, i should consider working on JZT 05:32:13 btw zzo38, there's some really screwy stuff i documented in the thread for tyger 05:32:17 GreaseMonkey: Yes maybe you can consider it if you want to 05:32:19 i suggest you have a look at it 05:32:26 it pertains to ZZT-OOP 05:32:37 GreaseMonkey: I will look at it, but some of the things I might already know 05:33:14 Which file(s) do you want me to look at? 05:34:04 Is there any other book about ZZT? CZZT might be the first one, possibly. 05:35:10 zzo38: http://zzt.belsambar.net/fora/viewtopic.php?p=64118#64118 05:36:07 JZT, I assume, is ZZT on the Java platform? 05:36:21 yes 05:37:03 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 05:37:08 Thanks, that does help. Now I can figure out what algorithm was probably used for reading the commands 05:37:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:41:41 CZZT is designed only for small-endian computers, please! 05:42:30 alise: remember PopLife? that blitter Game of Life for the Amiga? It does work in UAE! 05:42:49 cpressey: sweet 05:42:51 cpressey: decipher the code 05:45:45 ha 05:50:51 Goodnight. 05:50:54 Bye. 05:50:55 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:57:04 -!- oklofok has joined. 06:02:27 I got everything I have already defined in the WEBMATH font to work correctly. 06:02:27 But I would still like help, for some things 06:02:27 Like, suggest design for the "typewriter control graphics", which are symbols used to represent '\r' and '\n' and so on. 06:02:27 And do you know how to draw a picture of a spider and spider web in METAFONT? 06:02:27 Any other characters you think should be added? 06:09:13 Nope, this is one area in which I know nothing at all, sorry. 06:16:39 oh yes this bug is awesome: http://zzt.belsambar.net/fora/viewtopic.php?t=3161 06:16:52 i had NEVER found this bug until today 06:19:23 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 06:19:23 -!- oklopol has quit (*.net *.split). 06:19:56 * Sgeo growls at the Family Research Council stealing the real FRC's ancronym 06:22:21 FRC = ? 06:22:42 Fantasy Rules Commission. 06:22:53 hmmkay 06:23:02 Committee 06:28:12 * Sgeo should learn to speak Val$ar 06:29:31 Val$ar should be the official language of nomics 06:31:10 No, no, no. Esperanto written with kanji should be the official language of nomics. :P 06:31:57 良今、我 思今。 06:32:02 (Bonas, mi pensas.) 06:32:26 * Sgeo wonders what the Lojban equiv. of ti and tiyi is. Probably lo for both, 06:32:32 * Sgeo pokes Warrigal 06:35:40 Huh 06:35:45 person is womanman 06:35:59 (person = ejep, woman = ej, man = ep) 06:37:56 ok! 06:40:34 khavir ol ej 06:46:00 +++i++++iu+i+i++iu+ 06:50:30 "but I am 06:50:30 >left wondering in exactly what sense I have bought the big fish." 06:55:49 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716]). 07:03:37 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:09:41 -!- yiyus has joined. 07:11:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:11:14 -!- augur has joined. 07:26:52 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:26:54 -!- yiyus has joined. 07:51:16 * Sgeo has a hard time defining the boundary between reality and fantasy 07:51:52 Does U.S. Law, which might contain legal fictions (corporate personhood, for example), constitute a fictitious world? 07:57:48 I just monolouged to someone who probably doesn't care :/ 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:09:15 -!- lament has joined. 08:18:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:19:05 -!- augur has joined. 08:42:12 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:42:32 -!- yiyus has joined. 08:52:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:52:19 -!- augur has joined. 08:52:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:52:26 -!- augur has joined. 09:01:44 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:07:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:07:42 -!- tombom has joined. 09:13:44 -!- yiyus has joined. 09:17:00 Sgeo: Are laws that pruport to be based on science but have absolutely no basis on ralisty legal ficition too? :-) 09:18:38 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:18:43 -!- yiyus has joined. 09:20:43 Ilari, ralisty! 09:21:22 *reality 09:21:38 Pruport! 09:35:41 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:41:41 -!- yiyus has joined. 09:47:00 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:50:55 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 09:53:02 reading the DWARF standard it seems overly complex... 09:53:14 -!- yiyus has joined. 09:56:34 Operation Hatheist update! 09:57:12 The Pope apparently doesn't wear his hat when not doing mass. 09:57:39 As such, the hat will have to be stolen in Glasgow! 09:57:47 mhm 09:58:38 Gregor, is it just me or is the music slightly out of sync with the video in that video you posted yesterday? Hm and now the download just failed halfway through again. 09:58:46 at 74.6% 09:59:04 so not halfway 10:00:43 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:00:49 -!- yiyus has joined. 10:03:29 Vorpal, link? 10:04:01 oh my god i found a picture of alise 10:04:53 Quadrescence! 10:04:59 ive seen video of alise 10:05:36 here is his pic http://i.imgur.com/YezAe.jpg 10:05:56 not him 10:06:01 tho i'd fuck that kid hard 10:06:05 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:06:08 Phantom_Hoover, sec 10:06:15 Phantom_Hoover, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04OAykpufuM 10:06:39 augur: where is a pic of you 10:06:47 nowhere! 10:09:26 augur: please may i see a photo of u 10:09:34 facebook / psygnisfive 10:12:04 -!- yiyus has joined. 10:16:46 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:16:57 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:28:51 -!- yiyus has joined. 10:33:07 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:05:53 ah finally it downloads completely 11:09:40 -!- yiyus has joined. 11:10:10 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself). 11:12:20 " I swear there are some things that Rammstein does musically that are not far from Bach." <<< yeah bach loved to repeat a two note sequence for 2 minutes straight 11:12:32 oklofok, XD 11:14:56 Gregor, very nicely played in that video 11:15:40 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:19:22 i mean take something like 0.0.000.000.0.1., repeat it 8 times, then put in some wonky keyboard sounds every now and then and sing a verse about fucking your girlfriend with your manly penis, then sing a chorus with some overused chord sequence like 085(10) 11:19:34 and repeat this a couple times 11:19:38 and you have a hit rammstein song 11:20:06 i guess you need to optimize the chorus melody a bit (and actually have one) 11:20:26 also that riff may be from somewhere, i aimed for extremely trivial 11:21:32 0.0.000.000.0.1.|0.0.000.000.0.1.|0.0.000.003.4.1|5.5.555.333.1.3. 11:21:48 see, it's not at all rammstein now that i actually added a few notes 11:22:35 but with that addition, maybe the chorus should start at 5 11:23:45 cpressey: in other words, can you elaborate? 11:24:08 :----------------------------------------P 11:28:40 cpressey does not elaborate. 11:34:18 he might?!? 11:35:29 NEVER 11:42:36 :''-( 11:45:14 Vorpal: Re "music out of sync", the youtube video description apologises for av sync issues, so t's probably not just you. 11:45:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:45:46 fizzie, ah, didn't see that due to using youtube.dl 11:45:49 youtube-dl* 12:01:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:04:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:19:23 -!- kar8nga has joined. 12:38:32 -!- distant_figure has joined. 12:54:26 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:55:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 12:57:25 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:57:27 -!- yiyus has joined. 13:10:56 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:21:35 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:55:07 -!- distant_figure has quit (Quit: underflow). 13:55:32 -!- distant_figure has joined. 14:13:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:35:46 -!- Hiant has joined. 14:37:17 -!- Hiant has quit (Client Quit). 14:41:14 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:46:54 -!- alise has joined. 14:47:15 hi 14:47:45 Hi Alise 14:47:51 oh hi 14:55:28 wow, it seems Canonical are actually paying Fraunhofer MP3 licensing fees 14:55:40 "MPEG Layer-3 audio decoding technology licensed from Fraunhofer IIS and Thomson" 15:15:26 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:19:01 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:29:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:29:45 -!- tombom_ has joined. 15:31:05 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:33:18 foobar2000 is rubbish in WINE 15:35:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:37:42 Phantom_Hoover: what IRC client do you use? 15:37:51 XChat..? 15:38:03 Darn. 15:38:07 Why? 15:38:28 I'm attempting to make it not-ugly colour-wise, but I'd rather just use something else. 15:38:32 The little niggles are getting to me. 15:38:45 Why the hell doesn't it use native GTK+ selections? Who knows! 15:38:54 Why does it open the main menu when you right click unselected text? Who knows! 15:39:09 Why is it so doggone weird? Whoooo knoooows! 15:40:16 I get a colour thing in the preferences, but I suspect you've noticed that. 15:40:46 Yeah. 15:40:51 It's just a pain to fiddle around with it. 15:46:43 -!- madbrain has joined. 15:49:55 WHY OH WHY DOES IT DO THIS TO ME 15:50:34 -!- derdon has joined. 16:09:33 cpressey, have you developed immunity to C++? 16:11:19 Forget it, then. 16:14:55 -!- relet has joined. 16:16:22 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 16:30:04 -!- Flonk has joined. 16:44:00 Deewiant, do you have efunge checked out? 16:44:19 if so, it is possible you have to upgrade repo format since I did that for the launchpad branches. 16:44:21 Not in this OS 16:44:30 How does that happen 16:44:33 Deewiant, http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/upgrade-guide/index.html#migrating-local-branches-after-a-central-trunk-has-migrated 16:44:48 Alright, thanks for the heads up 16:45:11 Deewiant, basically, the new format is not backwards compat. And bzr in the last version started bugging me about the current one being obsolete 16:45:22 Deewiant, will probably do cfunge too later today 16:45:38 fizzie, you might want to be aware of that too 16:50:44 "I’m funded from social security disability for being insane." --LoseThos developer. 16:50:52 I have absolutely no doubts about the veracity of this claim 16:50:54 *claim. 17:00:21 Vorpal: explain why Conspire's site has disappeared 17:00:47 alise, like CWC, then. 17:01:26 alise, how should I know? I don't use that software... 17:01:27 Phantom_Hoover: ? 17:01:31 Vorpal: you recommended it once 17:01:59 alise, I think I said it looked like a promising alternative to xchat or something like that 17:02:02 alise, Chris Chandler? Whipping boy of the internet? 17:02:22 Phantom_Hoover, ?? 17:02:37 Vorpal, ??? 17:02:47 oh, him. 17:03:00 i have better things to do than fill my head with Encyclopedia Dramatica articles, although, admittedly, not /much/ better. 17:03:29 His TV Tropes entry is actually split into two sections. 17:03:42 It's insane. 17:04:12 mhm, never heard of him 17:09:07 -!- yiyus has joined. 17:16:16 -!- afaulds has joined. 17:16:27 hi 17:16:30 Hi. 17:16:38 I made a language, but it needs an interpreter 17:16:52 and I'm too new to C to write a good one 17:16:53 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deviating_Percolator 17:16:54 afaulds, spec? 17:17:02 there you go 17:17:30 You don't need to write an interpreter in C. 17:17:43 yes 17:17:48 -!- Hiant has joined. 17:21:32 Deewiant, fizzie: upgraded cfunge trunk too now. 17:22:10 I might try writing one in javascript 17:22:25 you and anyone else that have it checked out: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/upgrade-guide/index.html#migrating-local-branches-after-a-central-trunk-has-migrated 17:22:38 afaulds, what went wrong when trying to write a C one? 17:23:05 Deewiant, fizzie: use bzr info to find current url, then just check out that url again (in another dir obviously) and move over the build directory (if inside the old one) 17:23:32 and then rename the new one so it has the same name as the old one did (cmake by default uses absolute paths) 17:23:40 ♫ it's time for the (deviating) percolator, it's time for the (deviating) percolator ♫ 17:23:50 afaulds, also, I think it could be compiled easily enough. 17:23:56 how 17:24:30 but then the compiler must factor in every possible interpretation of the program? 17:24:55 easy enough 17:24:57 * afaulds afk 17:25:06 well 17:25:09 not actually easy at all 17:25:11 Phantom_Hoover is wrong 17:25:11 afaulds, oh, yes, instructions change. 17:25:14 it would have to interpret 17:25:14 Oops. 17:26:19 -!- Hiant has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]). 17:29:44 Phantom_Hoover: What do you mean by "immunity"? 17:30:06 That your brain doesn't go mushy when reading it. 17:32:45 * cpressey didn't think that was possible. 17:34:49 afaulds: What (non-esoteric) languages are you experienced with? 17:37:19 i think it's bad to have commands be words, would be easier to change semantics of your lines if commands were one letter 17:38:07 Or even if it were possible to define IF to PERCOLATE. 17:39:38 anyway, once A contains Z, A and Z can never be separated again afaiu, see also forte 17:40:07 erm 17:40:08 oh 17:40:16 you don't take the transitive closure of lookup 17:40:23 so nevermind 17:40:32 (you might wanna clarify this!) 17:40:43 erm 17:40:56 maybe you do, i should read the rest 17:41:06 Perhaps a quote operator? 17:41:29 'A is A regardless of whatever the A register contains. 17:42:08 you can just put A to M and use M to modify the register A 17:42:21 no matter what A contains, you'll be modifying A 17:42:34 i mean 17:42:36 afaiu 17:46:31 cpressey 17:46:33 back 17:46:39 erm. PHP and JS mostly 17:47:31 I can preëmpt cpressey's response to the first of those. 17:47:42 hm? 17:47:55 "PHP IS NOT A VALID LANGUAGE"? 17:47:59 He's... not a fan of PHP. 17:48:09 A lot of people aren't 17:48:11 I can see why 17:48:17 it's a horrible mess of functions 17:48:24 I was mainly curious. 17:48:35 http://catseye.tc/about/php.html 17:49:04 By "JS" I mean "JavaScript in Web Pages", not the command line thing 17:50:03 Phantom_Hoover: lol 17:50:28 It would be quite a bit easier (I think) to write an interpreter for DP in either PHP or JS, than it would be in C, so I'm not sure why C came up. 17:50:30 I am informed that JS is a nice language, though I have had bad experiences with it. 17:50:37 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:50:47 I hear it has closures and such. 17:50:58 closures? 17:51:17 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:51:18 anonymous functions that capture variables from the enclosing scpe 17:51:20 *scope 17:51:32 yes 17:51:34 it does 17:51:59 a = 10; f = function(b) { return b + a; }; return f 17:52:06 and such 17:52:07 yes that works 17:52:47 someone on espernet said "DevPerc is just as useful as Brainfuck" 17:52:50 I laughed 17:53:12 you can do a lot more with the latter that's actually useful 17:54:07 Do you know how to make synchronized audio in SDL? 17:54:35 DevPerc isn't TC? 17:55:29 nope 17:55:46 at least, I don't think 26 bytes max space is turing complete 17:55:49 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deviating_Percolator 17:56:04 I don't think DevPerc is TC 17:56:05 and in reality you have significantly less 17:56:13 well 17:56:19 unless you used files 17:56:19 Oh 17:56:20 >.> 17:56:35 as there are no limits on input/output 17:56:44 so if you linked that to memory... 17:56:47 I googled, and there's something for Amiga... 17:57:08 oh yeah, devpac 17:57:11 zzo: doesn't it involve making a callback? 17:57:13 something unrelated 17:57:30 I think I'll edit my page to clarify 17:57:38 Hey! I don't have Emacs! 17:57:43 * alise rectifies 17:58:42 afaulds: it reminds me of Fugue, a bit 17:58:56 also, once you define something once, you can never redefine it 17:58:58 unless you do 17:59:00 DEFINE A TO X 17:59:02 DEFINE X TO Y 17:59:04 yes 17:59:06 DEFINE A TO B 17:59:09 but then you lose A 17:59:13 yupyup 17:59:14 well 17:59:20 afaulds: i do think you should make commands single letters 17:59:23 you could then change A back by loosing Z 17:59:28 alise 17:59:33 I deliberately chose not to 17:59:40 to make it HARDER to program in 18:00:03 if someone wants to make an easier single-letter derivative, go ahead 18:00:27 "/ - Line Comment" ;; not //? 18:01:57 In case anyone would like to hear the actual 'percolator' song I was referring to earlier, I found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S-Ti1Aqx1c 18:02:17 alise: yes. I had // but decided / was simpler 18:02:45 it's esoteric after all :D 18:05:03 afaulds, incidentally, memory isn't 26B. 18:05:12 oh? 18:05:41 why not? 18:06:12 Oh, wait, it is. 18:06:31 I got confuzzled over types. 18:06:57 :/ 18:10:16 madbrain: Audio in SDL does involve making a callback. It is a separate thread so I need synchroized 18:10:23 I've never written a re-entrant parser! 18:10:27 I need to do that! 18:10:38 " also, once you define something once, you can never redefine it" " afaulds: i do think you should make commands single letters" <<< stop repeating me 18:10:57 http://no-http.org/ 18:11:01 what 18:11:01 first one is not true, as i elaborated 18:11:10 yes 18:11:15 you can change it 18:11:21 but you loose another variable 18:11:56 yes but you'll always have just one var that's unusable right 18:12:03 or several 18:12:09 oh hmm 18:12:24 in fact to store anything you need to point one to another. so set y to x, then change x, and access it through y 18:13:39 -!- impomatic has left (?). 18:13:53 How can I make audio synchronize in SDL? 18:13:54 basically, it's really hard to do anything really 18:15:49 zzo38: I'm guessing here. A condition variable? So your audio thread can wait for your main thread? 18:16:29 cpressey: In SDL, you don't set up the audio thread using the thread commands, it automatically set up the audio thread using SDL_OpenAudio command. 18:17:42 zzo38: I don't see offhand how that would be a big obstacle; you can still create a global condition variable, and share it between the threads, unless I'm mistaken. 18:18:11 I mean, SDL may hate you, if you try, but... 18:18:43 But there doesn't seem to be a command to access the audio thread! 18:19:34 You have that audio callback, that's called in the audio thread. 18:20:24 fizzie: Yes it is called in the audio thread. But the audio thread is managed only by SDL itself. 18:21:09 zzo38: I think the idea is that you write code that is called in the audio thread; so, from that code, you can access that thread. 18:21:38 Yes, but why is that a problem? You can either spend time waiting in the callback if SDL doesn't mind, or use a separate synchronous-audio buffer so that the callback can happen fast (as long as the buffer's not empty). 18:21:50 For example you could call pthread_self() in the audio callback (assuming pthreads). 18:22:33 No, I have to use SDL threads. And I am not quite sure that the SDL threads are actually available for the audio thread, anyways. 18:23:05 There is SDL_LockAudio() and SDL_UnlockAudio() 18:23:16 I don't quite know where to put these in the right places. 18:23:20 That just makes the callback not be called during that time, IIRC. 18:23:43 eugh, SDL 18:24:01 it sounds like you're doing something way too advanced for SDL :P 18:24:05 SDL is alright 18:27:24 OK, well, if SDL is forcing you to use 'SDL threads' which aren't defined well enough to support synchronization, then, you can't synchronize :) 18:27:52 What I'd do would be: have a buffer of suitable size, and a mutex M and condition C. Then your synchronous audio write does (e.g.) "SDL_mutexP(M); while (buffer-is-full) SDL_CondWait(C, M); write_stuff_to_buffer(); SDL_mutexV(M);" and your audio callback does "SDL_mutexP(M); write_some_audio_out_from_buffer(); SDL_CondBroadcast(C); SDL_mutexV(M);". 18:27:55 SDL threads can synchronize, I think. 18:28:16 But SDL audio doesn't provide access to SDL thread, I think. 18:28:30 fizzie: I can try that, to see if it works. 18:28:33 There's no SDL_SelfThread()? 18:28:40 You don't need the thread ID for anything; it's enough to know that it happens in a different thread. 18:29:04 cpressey: There's SDL_ThreadID() which returns the current thread ID, but I see no use for that here. 18:29:08 There is. But it says the call back function "This function usually runs in a separate thread" 18:30:47 OK; I agree, if SDL provides condvars like so, I guess you don't need to know what the current thread is to use them. 18:30:54 Well, my school mandated AV is being slow 18:31:06 It seems to have made EICAR look like a 0-byte file 18:31:15 Then, a few minutes later, pop up a warning 18:31:34 It says it *usually* runs in separate thread, but does somethings doesn't? 18:33:09 I can't find the "sometimes" bit in the SDL docs, but on the other hand I can't find any reference to the audio thread either. You could take a look at the code. I think it's very likely it runs in a separate thread at least on those platforms where the whole threading stuff is supported. 18:33:52 For now I just have it unsynchronized 18:34:26 if (SDL_ThreadID() == main_tid) abort("SDL hates me"); 18:34:50 cpressey: abort() doesn't take an argument. :p 18:36:37 * cpressey failed the exam 18:36:50 Why do they have to use RapidShare for the BytePusher programs? 18:41:06 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:43:07 "we will not spy out the files that our clients faithfully upload onto RapidShare, not now nor in future. We are against upload control and guarantee you that your files are safe with us and will not be opened by anyone else than yourself, unless you distribute the download link." 18:43:12 RapidShare: the Swiss bank of the internet. 18:44:21 yup 18:44:54 I guess you could make things very hard-synchronized to the audio output, too; make the audio buffer size equal to one BytePusher frame -- 256 samples -- and have the audio callback SDL_PushEvent() a user-defined "compute one more frame" event; then have a main event loop that executes one frame's worth of instructions whenever it gets that event. SDL_PushEvent is threadsafe, you should be able to call it whether or not the audio callback is in a separate threa 18:44:54 d or not. That sort of thing will probably break pretty badly if you don't manage to run the 65536 ByteByteJump instructions fast enough, so that the events start to pile up. 18:45:10 Vorpal: do you still have Helvetica Neue? 18:45:12 cpressey 18:45:16 wait isn't it swiss? 18:45:24 they use euros 18:45:41 afaulds: German-owned but run out of Switzerland 18:45:45 according to WP 18:46:59 ah 18:47:03 as I thought 18:47:25 Vorpal: do you still have Helvetica Neue? <-- no clue. Why? 18:47:32 I judged based on their accent and currency. There are some videos from the rapidshare marketing dept. on the site 18:47:57 alise, I presume I have it somewhere, even if not installed 18:48:12 Vorpal: because I gave it to you and I'd like it back :-P 18:48:26 alise, ah but you gave me a copy, that is how digital stuff works 18:48:47 yes, but the machine that i have it on, 18:48:48 is in a box 18:48:51 unplugged 18:48:55 without a keyboard or mouse 18:48:59 so i would quite appreciate the file 18:49:01 :P 18:49:07 alise, will look in a few seconds 18:49:27 alise, right after I get rid of this irritating fly 18:51:16 luxi mono sucks on linux, huh... 18:51:18 alise, where do you like me to scp them? I assume you can set up a temp account on some suitable server. The one I normally use is not available atm due to data center problems 18:51:33 Vorpal: filebin.ca 18:51:40 use tor if you must 18:52:03 alise, why would I trust tor. Probably NSA behind it ;) 18:52:03 Ohai wareya I see you found #esoteric too 18:52:17 Vorpal: Uhh... no. 18:52:26 actually 18:52:26 afaulds: he found it way before you :) 18:52:40 did you hear about all that stuff on wikileaks FROM tor? 18:52:41 * Sgeo growls at amount of homework 18:52:44 :/ 18:52:58 alise, I was joking 18:53:08 afaulds: in this case, the data leaking is unimportant 18:53:10 only its origin 18:53:17 yes 18:55:35 * alise gets Monaco on Linux 18:55:36 woot 18:58:22 unfortunately no bold version and the false bold is hideous 18:58:35 alise, http://filebin.ca/rauedb/fonts.pax.xz 18:58:53 Openly breaking the law? Shock! 18:59:07 Thanks for making me install xz. I'm sure the file's huge. :P 18:59:07 alise, well I don't. You own a legal copy of them. 18:59:18 But others don't! 18:59:25 alise, what is wrong with xz? 18:59:27 ...I still think it's illegal; redistribution is prohibited. 18:59:30 Nothing, just amusing. 18:59:56 Vorpal: I don't suppose I gave you any Monaco ones? 18:59:58 alise, arch packages use xz these days 19:00:00 I'm sure I did... 19:00:01 Thanks a lot, btw. 19:00:08 alise, not any that I saw in that directory 19:00:12 and if they are elsewhere: no clue 19:00:28 alise, it had LucidaGrande though 19:00:43 -!- lament has joined. 19:01:31 alise, anyway I would be surprised if xz is not installed by standard on modern distros 19:01:32 Oh, right. 19:01:35 like bzip2 and such 19:01:37 Not in Ubuntu, it seems. 19:01:46 I said modern distros 19:01:56 ... what? 19:02:11 * Phantom_Hoover has xz installed on Ubuntu. 19:02:16 alise, btw I did consider using shar + compress first or something silly like that 19:02:20 And I can't remember installing it. 19:02:27 alise, but I didn't have the relevant stuff installed 19:02:49 Phantom_Hoover, did you install lzma stuff? 19:02:53 Ahh, Helvetica Neue is filling the gap of a nice sans font. 19:02:54 since xz replaced lzma 19:03:05 For IRC etc. 19:03:07 Vorpal, I don't remember installing that either. 19:03:12 alise, nothing wrong with dejavu sans. Very readable on screen 19:03:23 I don't like it in XChat; XChat renders text strangely. 19:03:37 I think it fucks with the letter-spacing; it /definitely/ has too little line spacing. 19:03:41 alise, dejavu sans mono is perfect in xchat in my experience 19:03:52 Allow me to quote ais523. 19:03:59 hm? 19:04:00 09:52:57 alise, you don't use Dejavu Sans Mono? 19:04:01 09:53:08 Sgeo: monospace for /IRC/? 19:04:07 [...] 19:04:07 09:53:23 I know it's common, but I can't see any reason why you'd do that except to make myndzi's /o/ thing work properly 19:04:17 I have the support of ais523; my position is therefore unquestionable. 19:04:32 alise, um services output 19:04:44 Because I ask services for help every day. 19:04:48 (It's still readable, just not perfectly aligned.) 19:05:05 alise, hm, I guess running an irc network means you need to do that quite a bit more often 19:05:30 alise, also other output than help 19:05:39 though mostly of interest to opers I guess 19:05:52 \o/ 19:05:53 19:05:53 19:05:59 Monaco renders surprisingly well here. 19:06:00 ...What? 19:06:05 appropriate! 19:06:05 Phantom_Hoover, xchat? 19:06:16 * Phantom_Hoover concludes that the drawing is of Cthulhu. 19:06:22 \o\ 19:06:23 | 19:06:23 /`\ 19:06:26 it doesn't line up here at all 19:06:40 I'm using same type of nick alignment as xchat does 19:06:54 I love how Monaco 9 is the bitmapped version. 19:06:59 that is, nicks aligned right against a separator, and text aligned left on the other side 19:07:09 Not a terribly legible font on a high-ppi display, though. 19:07:40 alise, bitmapped fonts are rather dpi dependent indeed 19:08:26 I use monospace for IRC 19:08:38 * cpressey 's jaw drops 19:08:41 * cpressey loves C 19:08:50 isspace() won't compain if you pass it a pointer 19:08:56 it's a macro 19:08:57 so yeah. 19:09:04 damn, alise beat me to it 19:09:10 cpressey: that's gotta be some usage though :D 19:09:16 I knew it was a macro -- that's no real excuse 19:09:26 * alise thinks about how to fix it 19:09:30 cpressey, gcc? -Wall -Wextra -pedantic ? 19:09:41 There are a few ways to fix the macro 19:09:48 that might give you some reaction 19:10:47 Hmm, I can't think how exactly. 19:10:58 Which alignments are common in IRC? (I guess the one Vorpal specified can mean all message from anyone lined up with each other) 19:11:13 zzo38: that, and left-aligned 19:11:20 Vorpal: I think I'm already using all warning options 19:11:22 alise: Yes 19:11:22 zzo38, left aligned " message" is also common 19:11:30 XChat can actually do that. 19:11:31 don't think I seen any other ones 19:12:07 Vorpal: Some have the time, I think? But usually they are all aligned due to HH:MM:SS with leading zeros 19:12:07 alise, I find that the xchat way of aligning it increases readability 19:12:18 compared to left alignment 19:12:20 Vorpal: Tell that to Shakespeare. 19:12:20 just tried -ansi -pedantic -- no change with those either 19:12:22 cpressey, hm... 19:12:23 anyway 19:12:27 alise, hah 19:12:38 Vorpal: After all, plays are set in the left-aligned format. 19:12:43 cpressey: Maybe, change the macro to make it different 19:13:06 wtf @ Emacs set-background-color 19:13:07 arabic chatrooms might do well right-aligned 19:13:09 it doesn't let you enter fucking rgb! 19:13:28 XChat has a varying number of spaces between timestamp and nick 19:13:29 only when called from lisp 19:13:37 alise, yeah but doing it this way by hand would be more annoying. Also quite often longer lines. No line in the last screen-full had to be split over more than one line on screen for me 19:13:46 well, except that one I just said XD 19:13:50 wtf Emacs 19:13:52 what you think is 10pt 19:13:53 apparently, the isspace macro includes a cast to (int) 19:13:53 is actually smaller 19:13:57 than what the rest of my programs think is 10pt 19:14:04 Vorpal: In my computer there is not aligned in either of those two ways. But instead it use color-coding. Messages are colored blue! 19:14:05 alise, it probably got confused by DPI? 19:14:12 Is there anything that I like that alise won't hate during my duration of liking it 19:14:12 ? 19:14:18 Vorpal: yeah, 96 is a really confusing dpi setting 19:14:19 olsner: Why does it include a cast to (int)? 19:14:26 maybe X11 guesses it as something else and Emacs looks at that instead 19:14:29 Sgeo: breathing 19:14:30 alise, I thought you said you used high-DPI? 19:14:33 which you are now doing manually 19:14:35 or was that another monitor 19:14:39 Vorpal: yes, but shit works better set to 96 dpi :P 19:14:46 olsner: at least it had the decency to segfault when i passed it the pointer -- i could have spent a good few hours in confusion if it hasn't 19:14:48 alise, as for x11 guess. Let me find the program 19:14:49 *hadn't 19:14:50 Change the macro if you do not like it 19:15:04 $ xdpyinfo | grep resolution 19:15:04 resolution: 90x88 dots per inch 19:15:05 wtf? 19:15:06 greaaat, it doesn't let me try Monospace 10.5 pt 19:15:08 that isn't right 19:15:16 ehird@dinky:~/Downloads/helvetica$ xdpyinfo | grep resolution 19:15:16 resolution: 96x96 dots per inch 19:15:20 zzo38: I've written my own isspace() before, and I'll do it again if I have to :) 19:15:23 I'm absolutely certain I have square pixels 19:15:25 on this thing 19:15:48 dimensions: 1680x1050 pixels (474x303 millimeters) 19:15:49 hm 19:15:53 that doesn't look right 19:15:57 * Vorpal looks for a ruler 19:15:57 * cpressey wants five-sided pixels 19:16:07 ehird@dinky:~/Downloads/helvetica$ xrdb -query 19:16:07 Xft.dpi:96 19:16:24 cpressey: Which program are you writing? If you are writing a C program, you can also try using Enhanced CWEB (if you have TeX installed). 19:16:26 Vorpal: i doubt your monitor is that big. 19:16:47 More specifically, it tells libXft to use said DPI. If it exists, 19:16:48 libXft adds that value (a double) to the patterns it sends on to 19:16:48 fontconfig. 19:16:48 If it does not exist, libXft uses DisplayHeight * 25.4 / DisplayHeightMM. 19:16:48 I believe it uses those two (prefering the Xft.dpi value) only if the 19:16:48 application hasn't already specified FC_DPI in the fontconfig pattern. 19:16:50 alise, indeed. it seems closer to 470x300 mm 19:17:15 Vorpal: oh, then it is that big 19:17:22 alise forgot to breathe 19:17:25 alise, and yes I have a large desktop monitor 19:17:34 what's that in diagonal inches? 19:17:37 I used to get something really confusing out of xdpyinfo in a former multi-monitor setup, but now when everything's a different screen, it just lists them separately. 19:18:08 alise, I don't have any ruler with any non-SI scale alas. But it is longer than my longest ruler. My longest ruler is 50 cm 19:18:41 they don't print inches on the other side of the ruler in Sweden? 19:18:51 alise, not commonly no 19:19:02 i guess they only do that in the uk since inches are occasionally used by normal people and always used by old people 19:19:13 I think we stopped using inches like a couple of hundred years ago 19:19:15 perhaps because we state height in feet and inches; it's for *really* short people 19:19:16 alise, Sweden been on metric way longer 19:19:17 http://p.zem.fi/xdpyinfo -- no idea how accurate *those* are. 19:19:25 olsner, yeah something like that 19:19:31 I use both metric and inches, depending on what is being measured 19:19:46 fizzie, 524x321 ? 19:19:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:20:11 I think I've had a combined metric/inch ruler, but certainly not all of them have had those. 19:20:22 hi ais523 19:20:35 fizzie, yeah I seen ones, but I don't have any such myself 19:20:38 hi cpressey 19:20:53 fizzie: the vast majority of rulers here in the UK have both inches and centimetres 19:20:55 For measuring the temperature of an oven, I will use Fahrenheit but for weather and most other temperature I can use Celsius, but for absolute temperature, and physics and other science stuff, Kelvin is the proper measure of temperature that I prefer. 19:21:10 fizzie, what do you call those "not really a ruler" things that were used before calculators were invented? 19:21:18 I have one of those somewhere I think 19:21:19 Vorpal: Slide rules, you mean? 19:21:20 Vorpal: WJW, Emacs stores font HEIGHT in 1/10 pts. 19:21:28 alise, strange unit? 19:21:36 For measuring typefaces I can use points instead of inches or metres 19:21:38 alise, also "WJW"? 19:21:41 It's too bad English doesn't have a single term to mean "the current state of a parsing process". 19:21:43 Vorpal: WJW = Wow Just Wow 19:21:51 "parse_state" is so... unappealing. 19:21:55 alise, http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-712-j 19:22:01 alise, ah, hm... points here is not pixels is it? 19:22:01 cpressey: just use "state" 19:22:04 Vorpal: And according to a tape measure, that monitor is something like 518x322 mm, so it wasn't so far off. 19:22:05 Vorpal: of course not 19:22:08 alise, right 19:22:12 alise: If this language had namespaces, SURE! 19:22:16 come up with your own word 19:22:18 fizzie, slide ruler it seems like yeah 19:22:24 Pstate. Like Psmith. 19:22:35 fizzie, I think mine is broken perhaps. And I have no idea how it is used 19:22:39 105 1/10 pts seems to give me what I want, proper 10pt. 19:22:41 not sure where I got it from even 19:22:50 cpressey: i made a conlang once with namespaces 19:23:47 -!- Flonk has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:24:18 alise: The HTK toolkit measures times in units of 1/10 microseconds, or 100 nanoseconds; that's a bit strange unit too. (I *think* they've chosen that because then a single sample at 16 kHz is exactly 625 "units", an integral number... but who knows.) 19:27:00 (The sampling rate option, also, is not the frequency, but the period: the very obvious "SOURCERATE = 625" means a 16 kHz sampling rate.) 19:28:59 fizzie, it would be an integer if you used nanosenconds too 19:30:05 Yes, but then you'd end up with larger numbers. 19:30:15 and that way 32 KHz would be an integer too I think. Unlike currently. 19:30:53 Yes, but people don't much do >16 kHz for speech processing. 19:31:21 Wow, making an Emacs colour scheme is a bitch. 19:32:54 I'm not sure what sort of integers (or floats) they use for the times, though. If it's 0.1 µs, and 32-bit signed integers, that would mean the largest possible time would be... 19:32:57 !perl print 2**31/1000/1000/10 19:32:58 214.7483648 19:33:03 That's not very many seconds. 19:34:38 fizzie, with 2^64 it is quite a enough though 19:34:49 and why signed for time? 19:35:08 "time since start of whatever you want to measure" seems like it should be unsigned 19:35:10 People tend to use signed integers everywhere, no matter if it makes sense or not. 19:35:22 they do? 19:35:25 They do. 19:35:36 Vorpal: For 64-bit UNIX timestamps, I think it should be signed. For 32-bit UNIX timestamps it should be unsigned. 19:36:13 I love English. I love how an endeavour, like making an Emacs colour scheme, can "be a bitch", but if you said "The act of making an Emacs colour scheme is bitchy", or "My Emacs colour scheme is bitchen'", you mean completely different things. 19:36:18 These times are from start of an audio sample, though, where negative values are a lot less meaningful. 19:36:23 The second one has very shaky semantics. 19:36:44 fizzie: Yes in that case, negative values are not generally useful. 19:37:30 zzo38, mhm was not about such timestamps though 19:38:12 hm does using one-complement for negative numbers require separate signed/unsigned addition/subtraction? 19:38:50 I think so 19:41:25 struct cell *c = malloc(sizeof(struct cell)); 19:41:36 C has such a nice liturgical rhythm to it. 19:41:47 cpressey: According to comp.lang.c, the preferred way to write that is: struct cell *c = malloc(sizeof *c); 19:41:55 Liturgical rhythm? 19:41:55 * cpressey failed the exam 19:42:07 zzo38: like a chant. 19:42:10 cpressey: Since then you need to just update one place when you change the type. Both *work*, of course. 19:42:24 You can also write a macro, of course. 19:42:32 cpressey: According to comp.lang.c, the preferred way to write that is: struct cell *c = malloc(sizeof *c); <-- why? 19:42:47 Vorpal: cpressey: Since then you need to just update one place when you change the type. Both *work*, of course. 19:42:47 ah wait, fizzie said that same second as I asked 19:43:09 < fizzie> Vorpal: cpressey: 19:43:19 (just wanted the palindome there) 19:43:22 < fizzie> Vorpal: cpressey: <-- that looks funny. 19:43:46 < fizzie> Vorpal: cpressey: <-- so does that. Also wtf at current lag to server... 19:44:28 * Sgeo blinks a few times 19:44:31 There was a new UF 19:44:45 On a day that previous UF comics were about the day. This one wasn't 19:44:46 @d NEW(_1,_2) _1@[*_2@]=malloc(sizeof(_1)) 19:45:02 That is one way to write a macro for doing like that, if you want to. 19:45:05 Sgeo: what? 19:45:20 http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20100911&mode=classic 19:45:31 zzo38: so how would you write isspace, given a macro _isspace that does what isspace(x) normally does (without type checking), such that it fails at compile time if the argument is not a char? 19:45:55 alise: Probably use some GNU extension command 19:46:04 Sgeo: I still don't understand. 19:46:08 zzo38: I mean, standard C. 19:46:10 There is one to check for compatible types 19:46:17 Um. Writing a re-entrant parser in C is just like using continuations, isn't it? I'm going to have to write a trampoline, aren't I? Half the people here are going "ofc" and the other half are going "wat", aren't they? 19:46:32 * Sgeo may have been mistaken 19:46:46 cpressey: Uhh, you could just pass parser state around. 19:46:48 alise: I don't know if there is a way. Although it can probably be made to make a warning 19:46:52 cpressey: And use a recursive-descent model. 19:47:18 zzo38: Well, hm... do you know what I have to do to T to make foo[T] an error? 19:47:22 foo[pointer] works, so... 19:47:28 foo[(something) x], maybe? 19:47:37 alise: re-entrant means I can't recurse (in the sense of one C function calling another). 19:47:48 cpressey: Why not? 19:48:04 alise: well, not unless I wanted to mess with C's stack. I don't... 19:48:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reentrant_%28subroutine%29 19:48:10 Nothing here suggests that. 19:48:14 Are we using different definitions? 19:48:17 We might be 19:48:29 Define it, then. 19:48:50 I mean, I want to say parse("(a (b c (d)") and say parse(" e f) g)") later. 19:49:03 with control returning to me in between 19:49:04 I don't think it is ever an error in C to add wrong types, but it is always a warning. 19:49:05 That's not what re-entrant means. 19:49:10 cpressey: setjmp/longjmp 19:49:13 Ok, I'm hating the new UF 19:49:20 http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20100901&mode=classic 19:49:23 alise: That's messing with C's stack. 19:49:25 I don't even find this one funny 19:49:27 cpressey: it's done for you 19:49:33 Just.. almost, due to the self reference 19:49:43 "setjmp() unless the setjmp pointer is null" at the start of parse 19:49:48 then null it out before longjmp()ing in parse 19:49:51 when you reach the end of the string 19:49:53 store the parsed-so-far location in a global variable 19:49:55 and voila 19:50:03 cpressey: it's munging the stack just as much as call-withc 19:50:04 never mind 19:50:07 *call-with-current-continuation is. 19:50:26 Sgeo: * Sgeo blinks a few times 19:50:26 There was a new UF 19:50:26 On a day that previous UF comics were about the day. This one wasn't 19:50:30 Sgeo: this is utterly incomprehensible 19:50:34 The only real problem I have with Enhanced CWEB so far, is lack of support for variadic macros (even if the C compiler supports it). 19:51:00 You can do that -- parse("(a"), return of control, parse(" b)") -- just by writing parse() so that it manually keeps enough state somewhere between calls. (Then it won't be the-usual-definition-of-reentrant, though.) 19:51:05 alise, for some reason, I was under the impression that every 9/11, Illiad put up a comic relating to it. I was mistaken 19:51:27 -!- Flonk has joined. 19:51:48 Illiad has lost his nut: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20100831 19:51:55 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if you can stick anything in front of "Studies" and get a degree in it. 19:51:57 User Friendly is such a terrible comic. 19:52:05 Phantom_Hoover: Faeces Studies 19:52:11 Do you have a degree of "Studies Studies"? 19:52:15 alise, only after this resumption 19:52:22 zzo38, I shall! 19:52:39 Sgeo: You do know those have been submitted by readers, right? (Just checking.) 19:52:45 Sgeo: it appears that these are guest strips. 19:52:47 fix studies 19:52:50 Sgeo: i found this out by reading the comments. 19:52:51 * Phantom_Hoover wants to make a university reference but is too woefully naïve to do so. 19:52:59 fizzie, now I do.. 19:53:09 "The last few weeks of cartoons, and the next week or two coming, are submissions in the UF by UFies contest. There are some talented and, um, unusual minds out there." -- it says so right on the front page. 19:53:58 * Sgeo failed to notice :/ 19:54:38 * Sgeo now finds that he relates to http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20100901&mode=classic 19:55:17 if UF was like http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/10aug/uf014231.gif every day, I'd read it 19:56:29 * cpressey just broke his "don't read UF links either" rule 19:56:32 and for what? 19:56:47 * cpressey scratches it out even harder 19:57:22 I stopped reading uf ages ago. 19:57:23 cpressey: psht, http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/10aug/uf014231.gif is great 19:57:28 primarily because it's nothing like UF is or has ever been 19:57:34 alise: only by contrast 19:57:38 alise: yes 19:57:48 i dunno i'd read a strip of those 19:57:56 cpressey: do you like Dinosaur Comics? 19:58:09 alise: ... is that a generic term? probably not. 19:58:13 * Sgeo likes UF! 19:58:27 alise, qwantz 19:58:29 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:58:39 cpressey: http://qwantz.com/ 19:58:42 erm, cpressey 19:58:45 Only the greatest comic in the world. 19:59:00 Oh come now. Nothing can exceed Pokey the Penguin. 19:59:12 Sure, it may use the exact same panels each time, but nowhere else are there intellectual dinosaurs using uppercase a lot and being hilarious. 19:59:18 tl'dr 19:59:19 cpressey: I think Dinosaur Comics may actually predate it... 19:59:26 February 2003 19:59:32 Hmm 19:59:34 Pokey is 1998 19:59:36 Well, whatever 20:00:03 cpressey: I'm actually surprised you've never heard of it; it is most excellent. 20:00:11 alise: ROCK. UNDER ME LIVE. 20:00:21 ALSO, largely PREFER IT THAT WAY. 20:00:27 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:00:33 cpressey: http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1794 20:00:36 If you do not laugh, you have no soul. 20:01:50 I... guess I have no soul. 20:02:17 http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20100811 20:02:43 Or, perhaps #esoteric, which is by and large the funniest thing in the universe, has spoiled me. 20:03:39 -!- augur has joined. 20:05:09 cpressey: Read the Dinosaur Comics archive backwards. I guarantee you will hit something hilarious in ten clicks or less. 20:05:30 brb 20:11:02 I usually don't get the dinosaur comics 20:13:29 In C, return should be like ++ 20:14:13 printf("Count is now %d", return(count) = foo + bar); 20:15:43 now why does gcc not understand that strdup was *not* implicitly declared, because I #include'd? 20:16:20 alise, when did I introduce you to the whole "idiot requesting efnet#secondlife issue? 20:16:21 " 20:16:32 You said it was a troll, and ignoring it would make it go away 20:16:52 Guess what was asked in there about 9min ago 20:16:59 Not that anyone's responding 20:17:03 Or even active enough to care 20:17:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:17:22 cpressey: I don't know. I have not had that problem 20:18:10 usually, neither do I. something of a mystery 20:18:15 cpressey: strdup is not standard, so you don't get it in a standard-conforming mode. 20:18:26 cpressey: could be related to the feature test macros mentioned in the manpage 20:19:07 fizzie: http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/strdup.html ? 20:19:18 cpressey: Standard C, I mean. 20:19:47 cpressey: Something like -std=c99 or -ansi will make it not pull in strdup by default in . But usually you get it by default. 20:19:54 Of course it's in *some* standards. 20:19:56 fizzie: ok. i am doing the mode conform thing 20:21:26 malloc-then-strcpy shall suffice 20:22:01 If you compute the length for malloc, you could memcpy too. 20:22:01 Maybe I should add into Enhanced CWEB, the feature for telling it to add something after the next semicolon, and a code to tell it to add something at the beginning of the current { } block 20:22:12 don't forget to null-check after malloc 20:22:23 -!- yiyus has joined. 20:24:30 my data structure for s-expressions is a bit wack anyway. i'm not going for 'clean' this weekend. 20:24:48 You're not going to clean yourself at all this weekend? How... dirty! 20:25:10 cpressey, how can something that simple be a bit wack? 20:25:14 10:45:16 wait isn't it swiss? 20:25:14 10:45:24 they use euros 20:25:22 iirc switzerland doesn't use euros 20:25:54 they're not in the eu. not that that has stopped a number of other countries. 20:26:03 Vorpal: since you want to know -- only cons-cells have self-describing types. atoms don't. this is a bit wack. 20:26:11 i need to fix it, clearly 20:26:24 afaulds: ^ 20:26:30 cpressey, heh 20:29:26 " I usually don't get the dinosaur comics" <<< yay me neither 20:30:28 don't forget to null-check after malloc <-- and remember to check that fclose() didn't fail 20:30:42 and remember to not code in C, basically 20:30:59 cpressey, unless you are writing a kernel. 20:32:18 eugh, close-calls that can fail... I've never understood what the hell I'm supposed to do with an error like that 20:32:49 cpressey: Why not code in C? 20:32:55 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:33:00 zzo38: It was sort of a joke. 20:33:05 xz: Adjusted LZMA2 dictionary size from 64 MiB to 56 MiB to not exceed the memory usage limit of 602 MiB 20:33:06 huh? 20:33:11 Code in Enhanced CWEB instead. 20:33:36 -!- contingo has joined. 20:33:51 zzo38: don't tempt me! :) Actually, I might translate some of my C code to Enhanced CWEB, some time... 20:34:09 -!- wareya has joined. 20:34:14 olsner, fclose() can fail due to 1) bad file descriptor 2) stuff in stdio buffer (if file is buffered) left to write, and that write failing 20:34:22 oh and if the underlying close() fails 20:34:53 which can fail with EBADF (bad file descriptor), EINTR (interrupted by signal) and EIO (I/O error) 20:35:03 I/O error... how specific 20:35:15 11:22:24 Pstate. Like Psmith. 20:35:21 cpressey: Which programs? And if you need help you can ask me some things about Enhanced CWEB 20:35:21 another buck godot fan? 20:36:06 zzo38: I was thinking stringie (my underload interpreter) would be a good candidate. I'll make sure to ask you :) 20:36:48 oerjan, incidentally, do you read Schlock Mercenary 20:36:51 *? 20:37:12 nope 20:37:53 I vaguely want to, but I have concluded that with Archive Binge maxed out at the highest rate possible it will still take most of a year to read. 20:38:09 cpressey: or is that from wodehouse? (who i haven't read but google says so) 20:38:27 oerjan: Oh. That's Wodehouse, yes. 20:38:42 Phantom_Hoover, I read the archives in about a week. Not in one go, but split out over 4 weeks or so iirc 20:39:16 Vorpal, when? 20:39:35 i.e. how many comics did you get through. 20:40:07 Phantom_Hoover, hm about half a year ago I think 20:40:18 Phantom_Hoover, quite a lot still 20:40:40 Phantom_Hoover, it isn't much worse than IWC in comic count iirc 20:40:48 maybe even less than iwc 20:41:11 It took me ages to read through IWC! 20:41:12 Phantom_Hoover: I don't recall how long it took me to go through the archives, but not too many weeks. This was.. around 2005-2006, I think, though. 20:43:14 Phantom_Hoover, IWC took a few weeks too 20:43:18 not much 20:46:47 fixing the wack now. if you car a non-list you die. yeah, that seems fair 20:46:59 * Sgeo groumbles about Perl 20:48:49 cpressey, what wack? 20:49:38 < cpressey> Vorpal: since you want to know -- only cons-cells have self-describing types. atoms don't. this is a bit wack. 20:49:42 Phantom_Hoover: ^ 20:58:09 cpressey, hm why should putting a non-list in cdr be invalid? 20:58:32 well, a non-cons-cell rather 20:58:34 Vorpal: a) it shouldn't b) ask Haskell 20:58:44 cpressey, so what did you mean with fixing the wack now. if you car a non-list you die. yeah, that seems fair 20:58:57 Vorpal: car(123) 20:59:01 car('foo) 20:59:05 cpressey, ah 20:59:32 cpressey, sounds like it should be compile time error (if it is compiled) 20:59:42 !haskell :t (:) 20:59:42 well not for scheme, since you could redefine car there 20:59:50 (:) :: a -> [a] -> [a] 21:00:19 I assume you're riffing on that somehow. 21:00:40 hm I wonder how much space using squashfs for various things will save 21:00:55 iirc scheme _requires_ non-list cdrs for its vararg syntax 21:01:20 (define (func first-arg . rest) ...) 21:01:22 eh? doesn't it pass the varargs as a list parameter? 21:01:33 oh you mean the syntax? 21:01:33 It can, or it can do it that way. 21:01:36 Vorpal: yeah 21:01:51 oerjan, was that "yeah" to "syntax"? 21:01:53 yeah 21:01:58 (yeah) 21:02:10 hm 21:02:48 Phantom_Hoover: I was riffing on that Haskell doesn't do improper lists 21:03:45 Which is the only sensible way to do things. 21:03:49 of course in haskell (,) is essentially a cons without type restrictions 21:04:15 oerjan, but it's too restricted for lists. 21:04:16 with the disadvantage you cannot have a recursive type for it 21:06:18 Phantom_Hoover: nuts to "sensible" 21:07:05 cpressey, by "sensible" I mean "permissible under the type system without algebraic data type kludges." 21:07:08 excellent. Using squashfs cut space wasted on icc by half 21:08:25 wait, less than half. Misread 1.2 GB as 2.1 GB somehow 21:08:28 so about 1/4 21:09:10 Vorpal: maybe your brain is upside down 21:09:17 oklofok, hah 21:13:45 Vorpal descends from the lost umop ap!sdn tribe 21:15:19 oerjan, perhaps. My ancestry is clouded in mystery. 21:15:38 why "Vorpal"? 21:16:50 oklofok, I had that for quite some time now? 21:17:02 oklofok, and because I wanted to change. And why not this one 21:17:18 oklofok, I assume you get the dual (or maybe triple) reference? 21:17:28 oklofok: so he can go snicker-snack, of course 21:18:32 * cpressey snickers, then snacks 21:19:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:20:46 Vorpal: if i got the reference, i would've been satisfied 21:20:54 SO SORRY ABOUT NOT BEING AS SMART AS YOU 21:21:31 oklofok, um. the one oerjan mentioned of course 21:21:35 oklofok, and then nethack too 21:21:41 which references the first thing 21:21:50 that which oerjan referred to 21:21:54 oh okay, thanks 21:22:00 oerjan: help? 21:22:03 oklofok, plus I think D&D references the whole thing too 21:22:05 wait 21:22:13 " oklofok: so he can go snicker-snack, of course" <<< this? 21:22:20 oklofok, yes. 21:22:24 cpressey: any help>? 21:22:26 *? 21:22:33 oklofok, you know what oerjan is talking about surely? 21:22:44 oklofok, don't you know the source of "To be or not to be"? 21:22:48 that is about as famous 21:22:54 well, almost 21:22:58 No, it is far more famous. 21:23:15 cpressey, hm perhaps 21:23:16 Same part of the world, though. 21:23:33 cpressey, you mean written rather than taking place I presume? 21:23:44 * cpressey thinks Vorpal is trying to lead oklofok down a rabbit-hole 21:23:51 cpressey, oh certainly 21:23:57 :D 21:24:26 cpressey, though actually I think you are confusing the two most famous works of that author here. 21:24:35 Get your jabberwockys out of here 21:24:49 okay so it's some sort of alise-story reference? 21:24:53 cpressey, you presumably meant through a visual reflection device 21:24:58 i've read the first few pages in lojban 21:25:24 * oerjan concludes that oklofok really has never read it 21:25:42 how strange 21:25:45 oklofok, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabberwocky 21:25:48 oerjan, famous 21:25:52 err 21:25:54 oklofok, ^ 21:26:04 it was also a monty python movie 21:26:09 i do not read fiction 21:26:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Vonlebio. 21:26:13 i do not watch monty python 21:27:03 oklofok, also it is is "Alice" not "Alise" 21:27:09 in this context 21:27:10 i'll just send this new evidence to the Society for Proving Oklo* is not Human 21:27:42 oerjan, :D 21:27:57 they should know this by now 21:27:58 oerjan, though that looked grammatically awkward 21:28:37 my grammar _perfectly_ acceptably always! 21:28:39 is to be or not to be from hamlet? 21:28:42 oh wait, it wasn't "i'll just send this new evidence to the (Society for Proving Oklo*) is not Human". I read it as "Provoking Oklo*" first time 21:28:48 that explains my confusion 21:29:07 oklofok, indeed 21:29:30 oklofok: yes 21:29:37 oklofok, anyway you could just have googled this nick 21:29:45 i have not read that either 21:29:59 i've read part of othello, but it was really stupid so i stopped 21:30:05 in fact the current leading theory is that he's a mutated lifeform from a natural nuclear reactor in africa 21:30:21 back 21:30:23 I have read Hamlet. Non-modernised version. 21:30:23 the last thing i read was idiot last year 21:30:32 before that, probably something like harry potter :D 21:30:51 before it was cool 21:31:09 and yes Hamlet is really bad IMO. Sure some famous quotes. But how irrational they act. It's like the let their feelings override their rationality! 21:31:14 which always irritates me 21:31:36 in any work of fiction, as well as in real life 21:31:43 oklofok got imported to finland together with a large uranium shipment 21:32:12 hah 21:32:18 yay that reference i do get. 21:32:42 oklofok, what reference? 21:32:43 oklofok: BECAUSE IT'S TRUE 21:32:49 Vorpal: err, Hamlet is excellent 21:33:29 alise, oh certainly excellently written and so on. It is just that the stupidity of the characters actions annoys me. 21:33:52 alise, with some rational thinking it could have been solved without everyone dying IMO 21:34:00 just a few dying that is 21:34:05 Yes, nobody has ever written fiction about the effects of emotions on people. 21:34:11 Vorpal, people don't think rationally. Get over it. 21:34:26 Vonlebio, that annoys me. That is what I'm trying to say! 21:34:51 Vorpal, I know it annoys you, and it really shouldn't. 21:35:42 We should act more rationally, but that doesn't mean fiction about it should anger you 21:35:52 If anything, it should make you happy, demonstrating what over-emotionality does. 21:35:54 Vonlebio, the world would be a better place if people thought before following their emotions. I'm not saying emotions are bad. Just that they should be moderated by rational thought 21:36:13 alise, hm good point 21:36:18 Vorpal thinks he's a Vulcan. 21:36:24 alise, no I don't 21:36:28 Yeah, it's impossible for people to write about emotions. There's no way that someone could possibly describe how feelings affect thought, at all! It's physically impossible! 21:36:34 Yes, yes you do. Or rather you wish you were. 21:36:37 alise, it doesn't seem to have helped much sadly 21:36:42 (sarcasm) 21:36:53 Vorpal is right, you others are stupid 21:36:56 Vorpal: if people didn't behave idiotic, there wouldn't be half as many tragedies. or comedies, i guess. 21:37:00 Well, wishing you were a Vulcan isn't as bad as being under the delusion that you are one. 21:37:00 The Tennant/Stewart production of Hamlet was <3. 21:37:03 * oklofok has constructive opinions 21:37:10 (The BBC-broadcast version, at least; I didn't see it.) 21:37:24 Before someone can think before they feel they have to understand what the feelings are coming from and what they actually mean. 21:37:32 all fiction should be recordings of the linear motions of platonic solids 21:37:33 Vonlebio: Vulcans cleverly hide how stupidly irrational they are behind a monotone voice and an adamant insistence that they are unemotional. 21:38:00 alise, indeed; I have come to this conclusion myself 21:38:06 Otherwise, false assumptions would be made and people would constantly fall into deep depressions. 21:38:16 Vonlebio: So has everyone :P 21:38:20 oerjan, true. Not sure that is a bad thing. I never liked comedy based on people acting stupidly. There are other forms of comedy after all, which are better IMO 21:38:38 " Vonlebio: So has everyone :P" <<< i haven't, i haven't watched star trek! 21:38:41 i think Vorpal may be a contender for "most boring person in the universe" 21:38:46 or whereever they're from 21:38:49 oklofok: then you don't count as a person! 21:39:03 :D 21:39:14 NOT HAVING WATCHED RETARDED SHIT IS NOT A BAD THING 21:39:22 NOT HAVING READ RETARDED SHIT IS NOT A BAD THING 21:39:29 Why is it bad that fiction has emotions in it? 21:39:32 just clarifying this 21:39:39 oklofok, hm indeed 21:39:46 Star Trek is fun, despite being rather rubbish 21:39:53 wareya: takes time away from blowing things up 21:39:55 Vorpal: hm actually i agree on that comedy part, i myself have to leave the room when such shows are on. 21:39:57 wareya: it's annoying to watch people being stupid. 21:40:02 alise, agreed. Very varying quality though 21:40:09 some are so bad it's bad 21:40:11 it's more fun to watch them being really smart and unemotional 21:40:18 some episodes that is 21:40:26 oerjan, same 21:40:34 I love Voyager because I'm perfectly tuned to laugh at every second of it. 21:40:41 Part of the art of authorship is balancing the emotion between being stale and perfect versus being so horribly irrational and pointless that it's stupid. 21:40:45 It's wonderful. 21:40:46 it's fun to watch people be *insane*, but that's different 21:40:55 oklofok: err, you do realise that half of Hamlet is people being insane? 21:41:03 Vorpal: there was a mezzacotta blog post about this, i recall 21:41:08 oerjan, link? 21:41:11 Hamlet behaves insanely for... the entire play (despite being the only sane one...) 21:41:23 i'm not sure it's the kind of insane i'm looking for. 21:41:27 alise, indeed. And that is what annoys me. 21:41:38 you're really stupid :) 21:41:38 On an unrelated note, I did like MacBeth better. 21:41:48 *Macbeth 21:42:15 alise, Romeo & Juliet also have the stupidity bit. Possibly even more so than Hamlet. Though it's a close thing which is worst. 21:42:28 Romeo and Juliet is /about/ how stupid they are. 21:42:33 Yes. 21:42:36 alise, yes quite. 21:42:38 Vorpal, completely missing the point. 21:42:48 It's a tragedy where their flaw is /being fucking morons/. 21:43:19 I stopped watching it after Mercutio died. 21:43:30 Why? 21:43:47 It's not his best play. By far. But he definitely doesn't like any of the characters. 21:43:59 Because he's about the only major character who isn't a raving idiot! 21:44:14 Which is the point! 21:44:22 And he's entertaining! 21:44:40 Vonlebio: The Friar is pretty sane. 21:44:49 alise, no he isn't! 21:44:57 He's the one that tells Romeo "stop fucking whining, you just avoided the death penalty". 21:45:19 He spends most of the play thinking up wacky and implausible schemes to get Romeo and Juliet together! 21:45:20 and as cpressey said. Macbeth is a bit better. Since there it is the bad guy who gets into problems really. 21:45:38 Oh yeah, because all plays must follow my rigidly desired Good Outcome. 21:45:40 I mainly liked the part about the forest 21:45:42 Vonlebio: He marries them because he thinks it will bring peace. 21:45:50 alise, didn't say that. 21:45:56 I liked Romeo and Juliet, too, though. 21:46:02 Vorpal: http://www.mezzacotta.net/?p=211 although it actually was just a small part of it 21:46:03 alise, indeed, but then he starts acting like me with the Pope's hat! 21:46:06 It's his comedies I can't really bear. 21:46:22 not sure if I watched any of his comedies 21:46:31 They all suck. 21:46:49 "Romeo + Juliet", btw, is the most abhorrent thing ever committed to film. 21:47:12 alise: The modernised version? 21:47:24 * Vonlebio wanted to see the Zefirelli version but his effing English teacher insisted on showing Luhrmann's one. 21:47:29 oerjan, which bit? 21:47:33 The stupid "it's about TRUE LOVE" misunderstanding of the plot + LET'S BE MODERN, LET'S HAVE GUNS AND CARS DESPITE USING THE ORIGINAL DIALOGUE + just... terribleness + Leonardo DiCaprio, WHY? 21:47:35 + ... 21:47:36 (there are films based on shakespeare's work?) 21:47:42 oh yes, that one. oh yes. 21:47:46 Yeah, "Romeo + Juliet" is Luhrmann's. 21:47:50 Vorpal: second paragraph, last sentence 21:48:05 oklofok: fifty bajillion :P 21:48:08 oerjan, ah right 21:48:36 well and a bit further 21:48:37 I wonder if the BBC-aired production of RSC/Tennant/Stewart's Hamlet counts as a film. 21:48:42 No. 21:48:46 Yes, it does. 21:48:53 Well, I haven't seen it. 21:48:55 It's three and a half fucking hours long. 21:48:59 (No intermission!) 21:49:02 That doesn't make it a film. 21:49:02 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:49:03 oerjan, newly produced TV today is mostly shit :/ 21:49:08 Vonlebio: It also has sets. 21:49:12 (It's not just a recording of a performance.) 21:49:18 Ah, then it's a film. 21:49:30 And, uh, one gun. But just one! 21:49:42 (And the play makes no reference to a gun in dialogue there, so it isn't horribly awkward.) 21:50:00 alise, 3.5 hours? That's nothing. *looks for imdb entry* 21:50:13 hm imdb doesn't have length? 21:50:17 yes once Vorpal sat through the entire Ring cycle with no interrupts 21:50:17 It does. 21:50:20 I think. 21:50:21 *tions. 21:50:28 Cleopatra is like 45739545 hours in the uncut version 21:50:36 alise, can't find it for the one I'm looking for 21:50:42 cpressey, Wagner? 21:51:02 cpressey, who did? You claim me did? 21:51:06 I *HATE* Wagner 21:51:11 ONCE I WATCHED ALL THE STAR TREK PRODUCTIONS EVER IN A ROW 21:51:14 s/me/I/ 21:51:24 alise, that would be quite... impressive 21:51:30 Vorpal: 3.5 hours is nothing 21:51:40 " oerjan, newly produced TV today is mostly shit :/" <<< newly produced fiction is good usually, that i watch regularly 21:51:41 ONCE I READ THE ENTIRE "LORD OF THE RINGS" TRILOGY BACK-TO-BACK 21:51:53 alise: UNDERWATER 21:52:02 well american series 21:52:05 ONCE I READ THE LORD OF THE RINGS AND THE SILMARILLION BACK TO BACK 21:52:21 ONCE I READ THE ENTIRE "WHEEL OF TIME" N-OGY 21:52:23 (no timespan) 21:52:27 wait, it is only 3.4 hours? 21:52:28 huh 21:52:34 I thought it was more 21:53:52 ONCE I READ THE ENTIRE THE CHRONICLES OF AMBER BACK TO BACK 21:54:02 wareya, amber? 21:54:05 yeah 21:54:07 ONCE I LISTENED TO "DISCREET MUSIC" FIVE BILLION TIMES 21:54:09 one season of a tv series is usually at least 15 hours, that's not exactly hard to do in one go 21:54:22 wareya, not as in the material I presume? 21:54:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Amber 21:54:29 not the material 21:54:32 Gee, I can Google. 21:54:34 I must be amazing. 21:55:04 alise, impressive. I'll hire you to do it for me. The pay is 1£ / 1000000 years. Paid at end of period. 21:55:09 but i guess it's just because american tv series are a fuckload better than hamlet movies 21:55:18 It's funny because it's true 21:55:24 Vorpal: That was so witty I can barely contain myself. 21:55:29 Vorpal: that's less than the minimum wage in the UK 21:55:38 ais523, obviously 21:55:53 -!- Flonk has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:56:11 ooh 21:56:14 Vorpal: I accept. 21:56:15 ais523: especially if you consider inflation 21:56:19 Vorpal: I'm taking you to court. 21:56:23 wareya, "The main series consists of two story arcs, each five novels in length. Additionally, there are a number of Amber short stories and other works." <-- doesn't seem too bad. Unless those novels are excessively thick? 21:56:28 I believe I will get a raise. 21:56:34 like, Tolkin thickness 21:56:37 They aren't particularly short. 21:56:47 They're longer than the hobbit 21:57:00 I ONCE READ THE WHOLE DISCWORLD SERIES 21:57:01 ONCE I READ THE ENCYCLOPEDIA ARTICLE ON THE MATERIAL AMBER ONCE 21:57:06 ten novels in one go is impressive... 21:57:14 Vonlebio, I done that several times. 21:57:16 re-read books 21:57:17 CONSECUTIVELY 21:57:18 I ONCE READ EVERYTHING 21:57:26 I mean, 30 books or such 21:57:28 I ONE READ 21:57:30 not too bad 21:57:49 ONCE I READ A POEM 21:57:53 a WHOLE POEM 21:57:57 Speculative fiction is pretty great, too bad the label got misused and changed 21:58:01 I one read Crime and Punishment with a 1-page interleaving of War & Peace. 21:58:04 ;) 21:58:04 genre label 21:59:32 once i read an anus 21:59:39 That's cool 22:01:00 anyone here ever read a book in a language they didn't know 22:01:13 Do language books count?? 22:01:14 -? 22:01:15 yes, I once read a book written in oklofok 22:01:20 (i haven't) 22:01:24 I looked at a French dictionary once. 22:01:36 wareya: no, smart ass 22:01:42 :3 22:02:19 Vonlebio was just as smart, just slower :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 22:02:24 that's not funny in any way 22:02:33 <- what a fuckface this guy 22:02:46 I once read fizzie's beard -- it was a laser beard 22:03:03 what a fuckface that guy -> 22:03:49 Too bad I don't have a userlist 22:04:59 Time to do homework, I guess 22:05:04 3-5 minute presentation 22:05:10 That I didn't even touch yet 22:05:13 And a dash of Perl 22:05:58 alise: who guy?? 22:06:00 idgy 22:06:21 ohh use the userlist 22:06:22 oklofok, v 22:06:29 haha everyone fuckface :DDD 22:06:53 *idgi 22:07:03 Sgeo: you mean you have to do a 3-5 minute presentation? 22:07:14 oklofok, no, write one. 22:07:20 right 22:07:25 I'm not actually going to be presenting 22:07:28 It's an online course 22:07:44 well okay then it's some work 22:07:46 so you're not even going to be present 22:07:46 I have to do a supposed 18 hours of chemistry work by tomorrow morning 22:07:49 (4 4 4 4 4 4) 22:08:06 Or, I can switch out to another class. 22:08:23 i have to do a negative amount of work on every course if i wanna catch up with everyone else :( 22:08:42 * Sgeo jealousies of oklofok 22:08:57 The Perl stuff should be easy 22:09:26 Regarding Shakespeare, this nick is an anagram of Benvolio! 22:09:33 Sgeo: well, there's more than one way to do it 22:09:55 tbh i've mostly just read japanese 22:12:37 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:13:54 oklofok: Even in the Japanese class? 22:14:40 And no, never read a book in a language I don't know. Language I'm not fluent in, sure, but not a language I don't know. 22:15:56 I read Dante's Inferno. I don't know Italian. 22:16:02 -!- relet has joined. 22:16:05 I didn't read it *in* Italian... 22:16:24 XD 22:17:14 I once read fizzie's beard -- it was a laser beard <-- wasn't it nooga's beard? 22:17:59 all beards look the same to me 22:18:42 cpressey, So does that mean all beards look like RMS? And does that mean RMS's beard looks well kept, or all other beards look like a mess? 22:18:48 -!- kar8nga has joined. 22:19:20 -!- yiyus has joined. 22:19:28 " oklofok: Even in the Japanese class?" <<< you mean if i have a negative amount to do in jap? 22:19:50 oklofok, either that or if you read Japanese in that class 22:19:59 those are the two plausible interpretations I think 22:20:24 well let's see, we've learned 30 hiragana and some greetings, i know all hiragana, all katakana, some 20 kanji, about 150 words, numbers, months, days of month 22:20:48 150 was a completely random guess, but from word lists, i think i've learned about that many 22:22:17 (mostly i've been reading grammar, that's why the numbers are ridiculously small) 22:23:08 how messed up is japanese grammar? 22:23:10 * oerjan points at today's http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/ 22:23:16 it's pretty beautiful 22:23:19 * Vonlebio → sleep 22:23:24 at least the parts i know 22:23:45 (noun particle)^* verb 22:24:00 (disclaimer: i know a bit more than that :P) 22:24:24 (for you japanese fans) 22:25:50 "gaahiirudo" 22:26:05 i guess the small i signifies the h is an f 22:26:34 oklofok: What? What? No. 22:26:50 erm 22:26:56 whoops 22:27:10 madbrain: Japanese grammar is actually really simple. 22:27:19 the cliff thingie is "fu" in romaji, is it used for f? 22:27:24 h and f are allophones in japanese, or something like that? 22:27:33 i know next to nothing about pronunciation 22:27:37 -!- Vonlebio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:27:50 oerjan: The mora "hu" is pronounced with an "f". 22:28:11 oerjan: A small vowel following a "hu" denotes that that vowel should be used instead. 22:28:13 so you can only have f in front of u in japanese? 22:28:18 oh 22:28:27 oerjan: In native words, yes. 22:28:50 according to our teacher, "hu" is only "fu" because it sounds that way to americans 22:28:54 but should be "h" 22:29:22 oklofok: It's a distinct phoneme from both. 22:29:27 right 22:29:42 It's a bit more of an "f" than an "h", though. 22:29:55 okay 22:29:59 hey, another thing 22:30:02 the "d"'s 22:30:08 are they different before different vowels? 22:30:21 Except for ぢ and づ, no. 22:30:23 they seem to be "th", but some closer to "d" than others 22:30:57 (ぢ and づ are more commonly pronounced as "ji" and "zu") 22:31:13 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:31:17 yeah i'm talking about da de do 22:31:24 Same phonemes. 22:31:43 okay 22:32:24 in particular, i thought maybe do was a bit closer to "th" than de (on the d to th scale) 22:33:45 Sorry. Japanese lacks dental fricatives. 22:34:05 not the fricative, the sound in "the" 22:34:15 erm 22:34:25 i don't know these terms, let me look them up. 22:34:48 not "think", but "the" 22:34:59 approximant? 22:35:02 Those are both dental fricatives. 22:35:09 okay 22:35:21 Japanese lacks them. 22:35:22 -!- augur has joined. 22:35:23 -!- tombom_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:35:26 in do and de, the consonant is definitely closer to "the" than it is to "do" 22:35:39 Where did you hear this? 22:35:43 in japanese specch 22:35:45 *speech 22:35:51 From where? 22:35:52 maybe our teacher has a speech impediment 22:35:53 :D 22:36:07 It's certainly not actual Japanese pronounciation. 22:36:31 wanna link the really boring video again? 22:36:32 :D 22:36:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTRLVB8UHt4&feature=fvw Here, just have what I was just looking at instead. 22:36:51 okay 22:37:26 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:37:44 (1000 and 0, by Sakanaction)(セントレイ、サカナクション) 22:37:49 pikhq: maybe it's a dental/alveolar thing rather than plosive/fricative? 22:37:58 oerjan: Possible. 22:38:53 the d's i heard in that are definitely at least in the middle of english th and d, if not closer to th. 22:39:02 maybe i have a hearing impediment 22:39:16 oh 22:39:18 alise: So what would be more acceptable terminology than "re-entrant parser" for what I mean? 22:39:24 oklofok: Maybe I've just stopped registering the phonemes as odd. :P 22:39:28 cpressey: Umm... resumable parser? 22:39:30 Continuable parser? 22:39:31 interruptable? 22:39:33 Partial parser? 22:39:35 No, not that. 22:39:41 You don't interrupt it; it just isn't given enough. 22:39:53 Anyone know if there's a "standard" terminology for this? 22:40:04 pikhq: or what oerjan said 22:40:16 i mean 22:40:55 could be the tongue is in the "d" spot (alveolar?), and you just jap it up (fricative instead of plosive? meh i'm just saying random things because i don't know how they sound) 22:41:38 cpressey: i think i've seen incremental 22:42:04 well anyway, have to go, keep the fun going! -> 22:42:30 The "resumable parser" is also rather understandable one, even if it happens to be non-standardish. 22:42:49 "incremental parser" has about 4000 google hits; "resumable" has about 100 22:43:12 WHY DOES NOBODY SELL 16:10 MONITORS ANY MORE 22:43:13 Discuss. 22:43:16 cpressey: Incremental parser sounds good. 22:43:33 cpressey: Is this for Pixley? 22:44:00 incremental it is. thanks oerjan! 22:44:04 -!- Jonty has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:44:24 alise: Not per se. S-expressions just seemed like a simple thing to parse in this fashion. 22:44:33 but in practice, could be, could be. 22:44:40 cpressey: it _may_ indicate something stronger though, where you don't just add more text but can even reparse after internal edits (more effeciently than reparsing _everything_) 22:44:43 I do see some 1920x1200 monitors still available, but they're being CONSUMED by the 16:9 ones. 22:44:57 oerjan: like incremental compilation, hm. 22:44:58 *efficiently 22:46:32 cpressey: also i think the newfangled iteratee/enumerator concept for haskell (by oleg) is intended to support this 22:47:03 -!- Jonty has joined. 22:47:05 mind you i only mention that, my understanding is most haskellers still don't really understand that :D 22:47:34 incremental does seem to more have that meaning of "only reparse what has changed" -- i'm going back to "resumable" 22:48:06 what is it your parser does? you can run out of input, stop, and continue parsing after more input? 22:48:20 olsner: yes. 22:48:35 like if someone were sending you sexps on a socket, or something. 22:48:46 and you wanted to parse them as they came in 22:49:02 i know there are xml parsers that do this, so it's not really anything too special 22:49:39 if you have continuations, you can just have the ask-for-input function suspend computation until there's more input :) 22:49:46 and the parser would just be a plain parser 22:49:48 s/support this/support adding new input incrementally/, it doesn't have anything to do with the internal editing stuff afaik 22:52:10 -!- Jonty has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:53:16 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 22:55:08 cpressey: in fact it seems that the iteratee people use "incremental" in the sense you want, while some other researchers use the stronger edit meaning 22:55:26 is my impression 22:55:41 -!- yiyus has joined. 22:55:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:57:55 hmm 22:57:56 XChat 22:58:12 night 22:58:24 it's so hard to get XChat to use the same font sizes as everyone else 22:58:49 alise, oh? 9pt works just fine here 22:59:01 including oleg, http://okmij.org/ftp/Streams.html 22:59:18 Vorpal: no, it's more dpi fuckery 22:59:22 alise, ah 22:59:24 oerjan, hm? 22:59:26 #esoteric 22:59:29 trying to match it up 22:59:34 hard since XChat seems to do its own text-rendering thing 22:59:43 there 22:59:46 that's ... almost it 22:59:48 10.45pt 22:59:50 alise, it uses cairo afaik? 22:59:53 Vorpal: i'm still talking about incremental parsing 22:59:58 Vorpal: clearly it doesn't use gtk 23:00:04 /something's/ different 23:00:05 alise, or maybe pango 23:00:09 letter spacing and stuff 23:00:12 alise, cairo or pango or whatever 23:00:13 Vorpal: er, cairo and pango are usually used together 23:00:20 alise, okay. I'm no expert 23:00:25 on that 23:00:58 alise, but yeah I don't think it uses some gtk widget for the channel display 23:01:06 well, it does its own selection stuff too 23:01:11 ...the channel display is pretty shit, really 23:01:17 alise, rather it creates an empty box and then uses cairo or whatever to draw in it 23:01:22 yeah 23:01:26 wish it just used WebKit or something 23:01:30 like Empathy 23:01:42 alise, not sure I agree.. Also why mix in HTML where it isn't needed... 23:01:49 if that is what you mean 23:01:58 it's just a syntax for rendering shit like that 23:02:04 also, it allows easy customisation of the display 23:02:06 with CSS 23:02:16 Cairo's text-rendering is pretty low-level, but I wouldn't put it past XChat to use it directly instead of Pango, which is what GTK's own widgets presumably use. 23:02:17 alise, what about the separator thingy, that would require javascript then 23:02:22 Vorpal: err, no 23:02:29 alise, oh? 23:02:36 you could probably do it with floats; or even just a table 23:02:42 alise, it jumps out on long nicks and you can drag it 23:02:42 a table would definitely work 23:02:47 jumping out is easy 23:02:50 also you can set a max width for it 23:02:52 if you just specify min-width and max-width 23:02:53 in the css 23:02:56 -!- alise has left (?). 23:02:57 so it can't jump out past a certain column 23:02:58 -!- alise has joined. 23:03:01 then it will automatically resize 23:03:02 and so on 23:03:08 dragging it would require some js, yes. 23:03:10 but not much at all 23:03:30 alise, it would be slower than the current approach. I notice a huge speedup with js turned off in konq on my desktop 23:03:34 old cpu yes 23:03:45 but not everyone can afford the newest everywhere 23:03:56 webkit has a much better js engine. 23:04:05 oh yes compared to firefox, definitely 23:04:07 but still 23:04:12 and compared to konqueror 23:04:17 hm 23:04:23 remember, they took konqueror, threw out large parts of KHTML because they were shit, threw out KJS because it's shit 23:04:25 and rewrote them 23:04:29 iterate over many years of refinement 23:04:29 I thought new konq used webkit? 23:04:31 no? 23:04:32 tada, WebKit 23:04:33 Vorpal: not yet 23:04:38 not in latest KDE 4 release at least 23:04:42 I think it /can/ if you set it up 23:04:51 ah 23:05:16 alise, besides the default text rendering in xchat looks nice IMO. 23:05:39 alise, also what do you mean own highlighting? 23:05:47 I just fired up xchat, can't notice that 23:05:48 I mean 23:05:50 it's almost like the regular text rendering across the system, except the ways in which it does differ are all mistakes 23:05:54 I selected text, behaves as normal 23:05:55 due to less polished code 23:05:59 Vorpal: no, it doesn't 23:06:01 it's not a gtk selection 23:06:04 it has its own colour 23:06:06 and try right clicking on it 23:06:08 not the same 23:06:16 they've coded their own selection logic 23:06:17 alise, they are same colour here? 23:06:18 why? who knows! 23:06:21 Vorpal: coincidence. 23:06:25 alise, ah 23:06:25 try changing gtk theme 23:06:38 alise, and yes it uses a custom right click menu 23:06:38 XChat's text-selection color is configurable in the prefs. 23:06:39 so what? 23:06:40 cpressey: this stuff is important to haskell because haskell requires you to make parsing incremental if you want to have the parser be pure code but still allow interleaving impure actions with parsing 23:07:05 olsner: Yes. this is C. I don't have continuations. Implementing it looks an awful lot like implementing continuations. 23:07:39 There's that very old mostly-macro-driven "coroutines in C" thing. 23:07:50 cpressey, setjmp/longjmp? 23:07:59 -!- afaulds has quit (Quit: http://ajf.me/stuff/beep.exe - World's most advance beep app). 23:08:24 cpressey, if you don't have to deal with other IO than that for which you are waiting, it might be an option 23:08:27 cpressey: you could always just return a value saying "keep returning" 23:08:30 to just call "get more data" 23:08:32 thus manually implementing setjmp/longjmp 23:08:36 from the parser 23:08:42 oerjan: my head *cannot* handle oleg right now. i think i need to take a walk 23:08:53 cpressey, what about co-routines 23:08:55 would that help? 23:08:58 http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/coroutines.html if you've never seen it. 23:09:05 fizzie, beat you to it :P 23:09:20 * Sgeo ponders the Paranoia idea that's been bubbling in my head since 2007 or so 23:09:23 fizzie: there are more proper coroutine implementations :P 23:09:27 Vorpal: How so? I said "coroutines in C" way up there. 23:09:33 fizzie, oh? missed that 23:09:53 fizzie: there are more proper coroutine implementations :P <-- in C? 23:10:21 yes. 23:10:25 i think 23:10:28 alise, got any example? 23:10:32 getcontext/setcontext type things 23:10:42 sec i'll dig one up 23:10:47 alise, um, POSIX only, deprecated feature 23:10:50 http://dekorte.com/projects/opensource/libcoroutine/ 23:10:55 those two functions I mean 23:10:58 "A simple stackfull coroutine implementation, largely based on ucontext and fibers on platforms that support those APIs and with setjmp/longjmp implementations on several others." 23:11:02 Vorpal: no C magic plz. 23:11:14 cpressey, it isn't. It is just macros! 23:11:21 it's not magic 23:13:04 i mean, nothing that ties this to C. 23:13:17 cpressey: It's also very tiny, and you can do the same thing sort-of manually if you don't want to call magical macros. Though the switch-casery is more than a bit ugly-looking. 23:13:17 Pascal doesn't have setjmp/longjmp, afaik. 23:13:22 cpressey, .... what? 23:13:22 magic is when you run the code through the preprocessor, then run a textual replacement on the resulting output 23:13:27 Vorpal: never mind 23:13:28 cpressey, are you going to port it to pascal? 23:13:31 which is what C-INTERCAL does to input C files 23:13:35 I really like how lazy evaluation makes the decompressor/parser example (from fizzie's link) something that you just write without needing to think about it 23:13:41 Vorpal: You totally do not get why I'm doing this. 23:13:41 anyway, time to go home 23:13:47 cpressey: The "coroutines in C" does not involve any setjmp/longjmp or anything. 23:13:47 cpressey, remember to only use stuff that works in brainfuck too then! 23:13:58 and lambda calculus 23:14:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:14:12 and so on 23:14:16 fizzie: What alise quoted suggests that it does on some platforms. 23:14:30 cpressey, that was a different implementation 23:14:38 cpressey: That was libcoroutine, the "more proper" one. 23:14:40 indeed 23:14:42 cpressey, the one fizzie and I talked about just involves switch iirc 23:15:04 masked with a few easy macros 23:15:22 it's probably 80% similar to what i'm already doing, minus the macros 23:15:31 cpressey, I doubt it 23:15:43 why do you doubt that? 23:15:53 It's basically a switch() around the whole code, case labels after each "return", and some static state to resume where it left off. 23:16:04 cpressey, on the same basis that your is 80% similar without reading it. :P 23:16:06 i'm solving what is effectively the same problem 23:16:31 i have a big switch. i have some state that tracks how to resume. 23:16:37 okay then 23:17:00 It sounds like you no longer actually have a problem, either. 23:17:16 cpressey, it uses macros that uses __LINE__ to automatically number the case statements iirc 23:17:20 Did I ever have a problem? 23:18:22 -!- contingo has quit (Quit: contingo). 23:19:03 cpressey: Ah, I thought the "it" in your "Implementing it looks an awful lot like implementing continuations" referred to your parser itself, which sounded like something very overcomplicated. 23:19:34 Terrible knives! 23:19:36 #esoteric 23:19:38 -!- contingo has joined. 23:19:38 Hmph 23:19:44 "it" does refer to that. I'm sorry if the rest of the statement looks like a complaint or something; it surely wasn't. 23:19:56 night → 23:20:56 Why is it rendering differently... 23:21:15 hmm, I now realized I've already made two different implementations of coroutines in C without even realizing it 23:22:16 ... and one of them was a parser that occasionally needs to return control and wait for more data 23:22:31 In Enhanced CWEB you can use the @4 command to make a number that is automatically incremented in sequence each time that chunk is used 23:41:57 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:48:59 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:50:08 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 23:56:22 -!- alise has joined.