00:00:10 * Sgeo is addicted to SGU music 00:00:10 95's explorer.exe = awesome 00:00:38 pikhq: I actually went quite happily a while back with a maximised VM running Windows 95 for a few days. 00:01:11 -!- alise has left (?). 00:01:14 -!- alise has joined. 00:01:15 Fuck 00:01:19 I typed a long message 00:01:54 alise: Presumably you were happy except for the lack of a modern browser. 00:01:58 Nope! 00:02:10 pikhq: Anyway, I highly recommend installing 95 in a fast VM like VirtualBox, installing the VESA driver, and then going into fullscreen mode for a few days. Seriously; it's fun. You can get a modern browser -- Seamonkey a few releases back works, Nathan of Toasty Technology (the GUI gallery person) was working to correct that at the time. 00:02:13 What's the difference between shallow binding and deep binding for dynamically-scoped variables? 00:02:16 A few releases back = *minor* releases. 00:02:21 The c2 wiki fails to be comprehensible to me 00:02:22 It was, literally, almost latest Gecko. 00:02:38 It was perhaps a few months to a year old. 00:02:47 And, as I said, Nathan was working with the team to get the latest release working. 00:02:52 *Windows 95.* 00:02:55 o.O 00:02:59 pikhq: Did I mention that Nathan /uses Windows 95 as his daily driver/? 00:03:03 It is his main OS. 00:03:11 alise: Wow. 00:03:21 pikhq: Oh yeah, I had an IRC client too, though I forget which. 00:03:26 alise: And it's nice that Seamonkey still works. 00:03:27 In fact, an awful lot of stuff works, really. 00:03:37 pikhq: In fact, the latest-but-one Cygwin release (the one before Unicode support) works on Windows 95! 00:03:42 That means X11. 00:04:16 Honestly: if you have some free time and get bored, fullscreen a 95 VM with the VBEMP drivers and have some fun. 00:04:24 I actually started really liking it. 00:04:28 Seamonkey no longer supports 95. 00:04:35 pikhq: Supports officially, perhaps. 00:04:53 pikhq: But I just kept trying older releases until it worked, and Nathan still uses it, so he has a prerogative to keep it working. 00:04:55 Gecko started to rely on Cairo, which doesn't function for below 2000. 00:05:03 And the team were very responsive to him in the bug report. 00:05:04 pikhq: Seriously? 00:05:07 Fuck that. 00:05:21 pikhq: Oh well; it's not like you need the latest Seamonkey to be happy. 00:05:42 Actually using 95 in a VM made me, for a split second, consider continuing to use it. It's that enamouring. 00:05:51 It was dropped in Seamonkey 2.0. 00:06:00 How recent is that? 00:06:03 Is Win95 actually that great, or just the visual style? 00:06:12 Sgeo: The visual style is utterly irrelevant. 00:06:15 I am talking solely about usability. 00:06:28 alise: Nearly a year ago. 00:06:40 pikhq: Hmm. 00:06:50 pikhq: Well, I did consider working on a new browser for it... 00:06:51 1.1.19 is the last version to support 95, and was released in March of this year. 00:07:01 pikhq: Based on WebKit. Which I deluded myself into believing might work on 95. 00:07:04 End of life for the 1.x line. 00:07:08 March 2010, you could get worse. 00:07:12 I'm sure it could be forked easily enough. 00:08:14 Nathan does have a few misconceptions about Linux, though... 00:08:15 "From a users standpoint, built in drivers means you usually will not be able to make use of newly released hardware until the needed software is added to your Linux distribution, at which point you usually must upgrade the entire operating system to the latest version. (In contrast I just installed a driver for an SATA controller on Windows 95!) On the brighter side you won't have to hunt down and manually install dozens of separate drivers." 00:08:20 But he makes up for it in PURE AWESOME. 00:08:31 Of course, you could just build a browser on Cygwin. 00:08:40 pikhq: Oh yeah... Cairo on X. 00:08:47 Yup. 00:08:52 pikhq: Does Firefox build in Cygwin? 00:09:05 Yes. 00:09:11 pikhq: Then... you're sorted. 00:09:48 Opera *still supports 95*. 00:09:55 pikhq: Oh yeah. 00:09:58 I used Opera. 00:10:05 They dropped support for NT 4, but not 95. 00:10:05 I used 9 though, I think, not 10. 00:10:11 10 was sluggish. I /was/ in a VM, though. 00:10:30 pikhq: The major complaint I had after a few days of using Windows 95: "I can't flick my mouse into the bottom-left corner and click to open the Start menu, as the buttons ends before the bottom-left pixel." 00:11:05 Quite purifying, when your only complaint is a simple violation of Fitt's law. 00:11:15 I was even considering writing a program that fucked with the taskbar to make it work... 00:11:20 ...try doing that on Windows 7 :P 00:11:30 "Also, the clock defaults to that weird 24 hour time." -- Nathan ;; wat 00:11:32 lol americans 00:11:39 LOL 00:12:06 OpenOffice also dropped support for 95. 00:12:14 Who needs that, though? 00:12:15 pikhq: Nowt wrong with OpenOffice 2. 00:12:17 And yeah, that. 00:12:25 alise: 1 00:12:27 Not 2, 1. 00:12:30 Oh. 00:12:34 Nowt wrong with OpenOffice 1 :P 00:12:38 pikhq: You could just use Word 97. 00:12:42 etc. 00:12:55 Or even 95 :P 00:13:31 And Qt 4 no longer supports 95 at all. 00:14:05 pikhq: And Windows 95 doesn't support Windows 7! 00:14:06 Who cares? 00:14:32 Okay, Windows 2000 is the least bloated Windows that programs still support. 00:14:45 pikhq: BTW, I'm pretty sure that with the patch thing, 95 supports up to a gigabyte of RAM. 00:14:55 Oh wait. 00:15:00 You can tweak a value to expand that, it seems. 00:15:10 So you should be able to max out 32-bit address space, more or less. 00:15:23 pikhq: You mean, "Windows 2000 is the least bloated Windows that *the wrong* programs support." ;) 00:15:30 XD 00:15:49 alise: What patch, pray tell? 00:15:56 pikhq: It's included on the CD version. 00:15:57 I think. 00:15:59 (Of 95.) 00:16:11 Mmmm. 00:16:29 pikhq: The tweak is just fucking with Vcache. 00:16:37 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/253912 00:16:58 pikhq: Anyway, you can't say it doesn't support these applications. 00:17:00 Cygwin and X11. 00:17:03 Problem solved. 00:21:46 pikhq: You've got me thinking about Windows now; not good for my mental health. 00:21:54 ais523: I will really support that appeal now. 00:23:11 alise: Now program for it! 00:23:21 pikhq: Windows 95 programming? Sounds fun! 00:23:28 It's Win32. 00:23:36 You can do anything! Anything! The only limit ... is yourself. Welcome, to Win32! 00:23:41 zombo.com --> win32.com 00:23:59 lol, it redirects to http://www.bing.com/search?q=win32&form=MSSRPD 00:24:23 pikhq: Not true. 00:24:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_API 00:24:26 You could use this! 00:25:21 alise: Not on Win95. 00:25:53 -!- augur has joined. 00:27:38 pikhq: PAH 00:34:19 * alise searches for that screenshot of 95's explorer on XP 00:36:54 pikhq: Behold: 00:36:54 http://www.pu7o.org/pix/nt4sh_xp.png 00:36:59 Windows NT 4's explorer.exe 00:37:02 on Windows XP Professional. 00:37:15 pikhq: Now give me a single reason why this should not always be so. 00:37:26 * pikhq groans 00:37:30 pikhq: What? 00:37:41 Blackbox for Windows. 00:37:57 Yes, that Blackbox. 00:38:37 pikhq: Yeah, I know. 00:38:39 It's quite popular. 00:38:41 It's pretty crap. 00:38:49 pikhq: Now look at my screenshot and gaze. 00:39:18 alise: The beauty of it. 00:39:30 pikhq: Should have sent a poet. 00:39:37 NOW LET'S BE POETS (Translation: NOW LET'S MAKE THIS WORK) 00:39:53 It's Windows without the crap. 00:39:59 Well, no, not quite. But close. 00:40:14 Okay, it's Windows XP without the PAIN AND AGONY 00:43:07 pikhq: Now imagine that on Windows 2000. 00:43:16 pikhq: With everything stripped out. 00:43:28 alise: Mmmm. 00:43:34 alise: I'll have to try it. 00:43:51 pikhq: Yes. When I produce it! 00:43:57 (YOU WILL BE CRUSHED) 00:45:01 pikhq: A thing that saddens me: The Alpha, MIPS and PowerPC releases of NT 4.0 didn't support the GUI. 00:45:13 * Sgeo goes to install Flashblock 00:45:25 Wait, Flashblock on Chromium only hides the Flash, right 00:45:26 ? 00:45:32 As opposed to... 00:45:38 No, it now stops it from starting. 00:45:41 pikhq: http://www.pu7o.org/_pvt/nt4explorer.zip 00:45:43 Awesome! 00:45:47 pikhq: NT 4.0 explorer, packaged for Windows XP. 00:46:06 alise: Okay, I'll want to slipstream that SOB. 00:46:15 pikhq: NO I WILL 00:46:26 pikhq: Mine will be at LEAST a byte shorter than yours. FOREVER 00:46:45 pikhq: OMG IT RUNS IN WINE. 00:46:47 Sorry, let me repeat: 00:46:50 It fucking runs in WINE. 00:47:00 So I can't see my cursor but IT RUNS IN WINE. 00:47:10 Hah. 00:48:04 wine: cannot find L"C:\\windows\\system32\\Welcome.exe" 00:48:57 Ooh, Welcome.exe 00:49:15 I loved the propaganda that was included with various versions of Windows 00:49:16 pikhq: I was just about to brag about how amazing my MicroXP would be, but then I realised that you'd just STEAL the ideas like a dirty THIEF. 00:49:24 alise: :P 00:49:30 pikhq: I need an NDA. 00:49:40 And also loved the short videos for WinXP before WinXP was released 00:49:47 Any of those still available somewhere? 00:49:53 jewtube, probably 00:50:05 ..? 00:50:06 pikhq: A thing that saddens me: The Alpha, MIPS and PowerPC releases of NT 4.0 didn't support the GUI. // ??? 00:50:20 Gregor: There were releases of Windows NT 4.0 for those architectures. 00:50:25 I know that 00:50:26 They did not have the Windows user interface, just the command line. 00:50:31 It would be awesome if they did have it. 00:50:34 ... wtfbbq, didn't know that :P 00:50:39 Gregor: Well, I /may/ be wrong. 00:50:42 But I'm pretty sure I'm not. 00:50:57 alise, ty. Although I don't particularly appreciate the way you wrote youtube 00:51:23 Jewtube, jewnicode, jew reptilian new world order... 00:51:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aO0jumwHdg 00:51:49 Dammit, YouTube's being crap 00:53:17 How to sell Office XP: Sex. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue_ShKRAqNo 00:53:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm4LMlWohY4&feature=related 00:54:38 Gregor: The perfect name for an Alpha, MIPS or PowerPC box running NT 4.0: "Ivory Tower" 00:54:52 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:55:25 I can think of better OS's to fit that name... 00:55:35 namely ones that have never been commercially sold 00:55:37 OSes, yes, but not OSes on such obscure platforms that nobody ever used themo n. 00:55:39 *them on. 00:56:41 pikhq: BTW, don't bother including *any* web browser. 00:56:44 It will have ftp. 00:56:45 You need nothing else. 00:56:54 ....so what's being sold is being _unable_ to take the bra off? 00:57:01 Sgeo: Without the password! 00:57:06 It's for BOFHs. 00:57:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:57:39 alise: XD 00:57:51 alise: Who needs ftp? 00:57:57 pikhq: No. No. You need ftp. 00:57:59 You've got a disc drive, right? 00:58:02 It comes bundled with the other stuff. 00:58:08 The other basic command-line tools. 00:58:11 Sure, you COULD specifically exclude it... 00:58:15 ...but it's kilobytes. 00:58:54 "$2.99 per minute, unless you're a fast talker, then it's $4.99 per minute" 00:59:32 pikhq: http://sillydog.org/graph/ss/others/applecomauredirect.png 00:59:43 Apple: it runs on Perl. 00:59:46 *Apple.com: 00:59:54 Ugly Perl, at that! Oh the irony! 00:59:57 (ais523) 01:00:12 "asia red". Sounds like a codename. 01:00:20 Oooooooooooooooh, Windows XP! 01:02:36 -!- sshc_ has changed nick to sshc. 01:02:58 "I will not have this courtroom turn into a commercial for this 'Windows XP'" 01:09:58 what's that from? 01:10:40 One of the XPTV things 01:10:59 The VinylDisc is a combination of a digital layer, either in CD or DVD format, and an analogue layer, which is a vinyl record, developed by German company Optimal Media Production. It consists of a silver layer containing CD or DVD and a black polyvinyl chloride layer (able to hold 3.5 minutes of audio on 33rpm) which can be played on a regular phonograph. 01:11:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VinylDisc 01:11:45 coppro, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuTzpbur5zw&feature=related 01:14:51 alise: ... why 01:14:57 Gregor: WHY NOT 01:15:06 I love how it can only hold 3.5 minutes. 01:15:08 Because it's probably expensive and has no benefits. 01:15:24 I could see pretentious IDM-type groups releasing albums in it. 01:15:29 Or at least singles. 01:15:32 But not 3.5 minutes. 01:16:34 Gregor: Do YOU know when Astronomy Picture of the Day updates? 01:16:46 It's the perfect medium! Anyone can use it, even if they haven't purchased any new technology in the last 2(?) decades! 01:16:48 Never. It's a lie. 01:16:54 Gregor: Oh. 01:16:59 Sgeo: Almost 3. 01:17:00 Like the moon landings. 01:17:14 I can't believe CDs are less than 30 years old >__> 01:17:20 They've been ubiquitous since I was born! 01:17:24 Before that, even! 01:17:27 Way before that! 01:17:53 I had casettes when I was a kid, but I think CDs were already out there, just not ubiquitous. 01:18:09 Cassettes where what Those Old Albums were on. 01:18:26 Actually every time I think "cassette", R.E.M. - Document's cassette release appears in my head. 01:20:12 I think that DAT tapes still get more bits/dollar than most other forms of storage ... 01:20:39 Something like 8GB/$ 01:21:22 I guess hard disks are (finally) past that, but they weren't until a few years ago :P 01:21:58 My father uses/used DAT tapes extensively to record concerts. (officially, that is.) 01:22:16 His stereo is... hefty, and the speakers are mounted on the walls. 01:23:33 * Sgeo still has a bit of a hard time realizing just how little 1GB is these days 01:24:27 Gregor: 8 GB/$ means $79.99 buys you 639.92 GBs. 01:24:36 It is actually the price of a 1.5TB hard disk. 01:24:45 So yeah, disks have won. 01:25:07 You can get a terabyte for *sixty fucking dollars*! Not $69.99 either; $59.99. 01:25:13 That's a THOUSAND GODDAMN GIGABYTES 01:25:48 Gregor: 8 GB/$ means $79.99 buys you 639.92 GBs. 01:25:48 It is actually the price of a 1.5TB hard disk. 01:25:48 Yeah, looks like a 1.5TB tape is about $100 01:25:50 Womp womp 01:25:57 wait, this may be google interpreting megabytes as mebibytes 01:25:57 whatever 01:25:58 disks win 01:26:08 Gregor: also, disks win at actually being used too :-P 01:26:11 Until you drop one 01:26:16 Well, tapes aren't random-access. 01:26:18 So they're stupid. 01:27:29 Sgeo: unless you drop one in a bad laptop without automatic drive-head parking 01:27:38 and then leave it there to mature without rescuing it 01:27:38 FTFY 01:28:13 Shipping to California – Please Read 01:28:13 Unfortunately we are unable to ship this product directly into the State of California. This particular product will need to ship to our Austin, Texas warehouse first. We will then immediately re-ship the product to you. You will not be charged for additional shipping. This will add 2-3 business days onto to delivery of your order. Customers shipping to other states are not affected. 01:28:16 wtf? 01:28:25 xD Where's that from? 01:28:33 http://www.tapeandmedia.com/sony_lto_5_tape_ultrium_5_tapes.asp?source=Froogle&REFERER=Froogle 01:29:13 "Unfortunately, the usual to-California transit checks for trace amounts of cocaine, included as a gift in all our products. Also swan remains, used in the production of the tape." 01:29:23 "Also human baby remains." 01:29:28 "Also innocent kittens." 01:29:33 "So yeah, Texas." 01:29:39 "And a few less-innocent kittens." 01:29:50 Oh BTW I apparently am capable of writing a JIT. 01:29:51 Who knew. 01:30:06 I am capable of love. 01:30:11 Lies. 01:30:12 But only on Tuesdays ;____; 01:30:16 And only for a Turing machine 01:30:19 A dead Turing machine 01:31:17 Gregor: did you know that it's impossible to move your index finger around in a circle? 01:32:06 I certainly can't. 01:32:36 Gregor: ...really? I was just bullshitting you so I could waste your precious time and brain energy. 01:32:48 This is like when I told someone that "gullible" wasn't in the dictionary and it *actually wasn't*. 01:33:30 Idonno, my circle seems extremely imperfect :P 01:33:58 Gregor: Hmm, it appears to also be impossible with the thumb. 01:34:14 Even more impossible with the thumb. 01:38:46 Gregor: WHAT 01:38:48 It's easy with the thumb 01:38:55 Gregor: Did you know that Google is DOWN??? 01:39:03 Impossible. 01:39:07 IT'S TRUE 01:39:25 You realize I used it like ten minutes ago to find that tape, right? :P 01:40:10 How much does a Google cost? My techie friend said that I should use Googles. 01:44:25 What if I get hit on the head and lose my intellect? 01:44:32 Or die 01:44:40 * Sgeo wants to wear a helmet 01:53:02 * pikhq shall go ahead and create the Win2k-minus-everything disk 01:53:32 Features have *got* to go. 01:54:04 * Sgeo will be rewatching SGU "Light" in a few seconds 01:55:58 Goodnight. 01:56:02 Bye. 01:56:04 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:04:55 Win2k-minux-everything, 183MB. 02:25:00 wtf 02:25:03 What does that mean 02:25:12 Oh, s/minux/minus/? :P 02:25:26 Yes 02:26:13 I thought this was the worst hybrid OS idea in history :P 02:26:14 Win2k, minix and Linux or something 02:27:00 That would be freakish. 02:27:05 Amazing, but freakish. 02:35:09 -!- jcp has joined. 03:04:46 -!- lament has joined. 03:19:30 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:36:21 pikhq: why win2k and not xp, vista, or 7? 03:36:34 Mathnerd314: Win2K sucks less. 03:38:02 I find that difficult to believe... does win98 suck even less? 03:38:07 No. 03:38:10 Win98 sucks more. 03:39:16 so the curve of suckiness is something like \--\_/--/, with win2K in the middle? 03:39:38 Except that Win95 is quite lacking in suck. 03:39:59 (not having a lot of stuff lets it not have a lot of suck) 03:40:10 so something like __/--\_/--/ 03:40:26 Mmm, I guess. 03:40:36 Though before Win95 sucked assloads. 03:41:09 * Mathnerd314 remembers he has ^ 03:42:03 maybe _/^\_/--/^ 03:42:22 Aye, ME sucked maximally. 03:42:37 You can't make an OS suck more and not get sued for fraud. 03:43:13 did you see that ad with Windows Vista = Windows CE + Windows ME + Windows NT = Windows Cement? 03:43:25 ad is in quotes 03:43:36 :P 03:44:28 it's awesome because it's true :D 03:49:54 Awesome. Flashblock managed to crash 03:52:50 you don't use NoScript? 03:53:08 -!- sshc_ has joined. 03:56:43 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:57:29 ^ Sgeo 04:02:54 No, I don't 04:13:01 whyever not? 04:16:57 Because ABP is more useful. 04:17:19 NoScript is just stupidly extreme. ABP is directed, surgical. 04:33:22 I hate limits. 04:34:40 Rather, I hate all limits that cannot be computed obviously or via l'Hôpital's rule. Monsters. 04:40:22 I've always seen it as l'Hospital's rule. 04:40:30 Which I love, because it's "the hospital's rule" 04:43:13 :P 04:45:40 Gregor: ABP is slower to use. You can't do "1-click site blocking/unblocking" 04:46:07 pikhq: is this for a class? if so, what is it called? 04:47:27 Mathnerd314: Calculus III 04:47:38 We had two problems doing limits of a vector function. 04:47:43 yay, totally took that last year :-) 04:47:46 I was reminded that I despise limits. 04:48:08 limits are fun :-) you use them all the time in analysis 04:51:29 Now, derivatives. There's something I can get behind. 04:53:45 pikhq: reals can be defined as the limit of a sequence of rational numbers. 04:56:28 if that doesn't excite you, then probably nothing will 04:59:22 Bah, humbug. 04:59:33 Why must Flash crash all the time? 04:59:35 Everyone knows the only reals that exist are computable! 04:59:39 Sgeo: Adobe sucks. 05:07:04 pikhq: ok, the limit of computable sequences of rational numbers 05:08:52 computable sequences aren't too hard to define; something like "successive terms can be output by a Turing machine" 05:17:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:36:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:59:16 pikhq: *Macromedia sucks? 05:59:33 as far as I know, Flash hasn't been rewritten, and you have to blame the original authors of the codebase to some extent 06:31:48 :( at how much memory and CPU Factor was using 06:34:15 -!- wareya_ has joined. 06:37:31 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:38:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:41:44 limits are fun :-) you use them all the time in analysis <-- analysis is meh. Discrete math ftw! 06:42:32 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:45:12 -!- augur has joined. 06:48:47 -!- augur has changed nick to CaptainQirq. 06:49:32 -!- CaptainQirq has changed nick to augur. 06:49:40 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:05:53 -!- tombom has joined. 07:09:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 07:09:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:09:46 -!- augur has joined. 07:27:27 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:49:14 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit). 07:50:41 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:06:04 -!- cheater99 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:19:47 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself). 08:19:54 -!- atrapado has joined. 08:21:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 08:21:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 08:21:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 08:39:21 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 08:50:38 -!- lament has joined. 09:19:26 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:57:46 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:14:54 -!- sftp has joined. 12:11:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:24:16 -!- dbc has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:25:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:26:28 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:30:03 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:31:27 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 12:52:37 nil 12:52:42 NILE 12:54:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:54:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:36:46 You're in de'nil. 14:02:09 98% packet loss.... how fun. To master DNS server. 14:02:34 so I can't even update the domain to take the other server that went down out of round robin 14:04:17 nooga, now you made me consider a esolang where everything were names of rivers (and perhaps also other geographical features) 14:09:10 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:19:42 -!- jcp has joined. 14:25:02 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:11:05 -!- FireyFly has joined. 15:14:20 -!- nooga has joined. 15:16:22 -!- FireyFly has changed nick to FireFly. 15:22:20 barf 15:24:13 http://gopherwoodstudios.com/entanglement/ made an esolang based on that 15:24:16 it'd be cool 15:27:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:39:07 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:40:00 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:06:10 -!- alise has joined. 16:14:06 18:04:55 Win2k-minux-everything, 183MB. 16:14:07 Lame 16:14:38 LameNT 16:18:32 pikhq: Can you get nLite working in WINE? 16:34:49 alise, 183 MB is rather large yeah 16:36:39 Vorpal: I got an uber-minimal, stripped-down XP ISO into like 200. 16:36:46 alise, nice 16:36:50 With 2000 and the complete eradication of IE components... 16:36:57 Well! I think I can significantly beat that figure. 16:37:07 Almost nothing supports XP and not 2000, anyway. 16:37:09 Even Chrome works. 16:37:21 Vorpal: You can run NT 4.0's Explorer on XP. Seriously. 16:37:26 Vorpal: http://www.pu7o.org/pix/nt4sh_xp.png 16:37:36 Look ma! No IE! 16:37:51 And font smoothing, too! 16:55:28 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:57:44 pikhq 16:57:45 http://www.hpcfactor.com/support/patching/win2000/ 16:57:48 WHY ARE THERE SO MANY PATCHES 16:59:09 heh 17:00:02 alise, hm windows update needs IE iirc? 17:00:14 http://windizupdate.com/ 17:00:28 Vorpal: besides, i don't know if windows update works with 2000 17:00:32 it's all patch installation files 17:00:35 afaik 17:00:40 and maybe IE updates, but I'm cutting out IE 17:02:44 -!- nooga has joined. 17:04:06 -!- tombom has joined. 17:05:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:10:39 alise: That's pretty lurvely. 17:10:51 What is? 17:14:36 Gregor: Windiz Update? 17:16:34 alise: NT shell on XP 17:17:48 Gregor: Yes. 17:17:55 Gregor: Or, NT shell on 2000. 17:17:58 Thus: Micro2k. 17:20:36 Gregor: "If it doesn't fit on an original zip drive, it's not worth having." 17:20:55 If it doesn't fit on a superformatted floppy, it's not worth having. 17:22:28 Gregor: I reject that goal as being too difficult. 17:24:42 Whoa, Win2k has a fit when detecting graphics hardware. 17:24:51 "Try resolution... back to the setup! Try resolution... back to the setup!" 17:24:55 And my VM window jiggles about with its size. 17:25:07 Really quickly, too. 17:25:31 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:26:44 pikhq: STRIP EVERY LOCALE 17:26:46 STRIP EVERY KEYBOARD LAYOUT 17:27:04 STRIP PER (Phantom Edition Recall-files) 17:27:29 -!- iamcal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:34:53 w 17:35:00 Gregor: Windows 2000 Professional: It starts in 16 colours! 17:35:13 Awesome. 17:35:16 Dalalalalalalalala WUM de dum duuuuuuuum 17:35:54 Gregor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFkry3zzutI 17:35:55 Feel the love. 17:36:29 Gregor: Note: Also the Me startup sound. 17:37:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu0TMtgx1pE ;; Wow, the NT ones were fucking crazy. 17:37:44 The whole thing becomes some sort of crazy-dynamiced electronic piece. 17:39:20 With a weird ambientish piece in the middle with the Windows 98 sounds. 17:39:30 Gregor: Haha wow, 2000 Beta 3's is actually dramatic. 17:39:34 (2 minutes 40 seconds or thereabouts) 17:40:43 alise, I'm trying to design a "sane" ISA. Like a replacement for x86-64. Purely for recreational purposes, since it is unlikely to ever be implemented. A question: big or little endian? 17:40:53 any suggestions for that? And reason for that 17:41:09 little endian 17:41:22 alise, interesting. Why do you suggest that? 17:41:24 reason: you can make an N-bit number bigger just by appending 17:41:33 ah. Yes that is a good reason 17:41:35 which is pleasing from a theoretical aesthetics point of view, for one 17:41:39 as well as possibly being quite useful 17:41:49 also, you can easily imagine an addition algorithm on it stepping through bit by bit 17:41:55 which is only pleasing in an aesthetic sense, but it's still nice 17:42:15 Vorpal: also: go for CISC, if you're trying to reproduce such a "rich" feature set 17:42:23 it /does/ have its advantages over RISC. 17:42:27 despite the propaganda :) 17:42:37 alise, I decided for memory mapped registers. And making page 0 physically unmappable (providing not just a guaranteed "safe" NULL, but also 8191 other "special" "safe" values) 17:42:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:42:57 Vorpal: memory map the registers in page 0 17:43:09 or, hm 17:43:19 Vorpal: i suggest reserving about 8-16 pages for the system 17:43:22 including hardware 17:43:28 for instance, for graphics cards and the like 17:43:47 16 pages would be nice, since that's a round megabyte 17:43:49 *mebibytes 17:43:51 *mebibyte 17:43:53 assuming 64-bit values 17:44:00 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:44:21 -!- augur has joined. 17:44:50 VBEMP NT edition, woo hoo! 17:45:46 Why must it be distributed in a zip :P 17:46:31 "In the early roadmap for Neptune's development there was one service pack planned, codenamed Triton." 17:46:36 Planning for bugfix updates: lol 17:47:57 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:48:07 ... 17:48:18 * Vorpal checks log 17:48:28 except it seems down? 17:48:31 Why would one plan for bug fixes? 17:48:36 ah now it loads 17:48:58 Assuming you were giving them for free, which it might not be. 17:49:03 alise, I was planning to go for CRISC. "Complicated RISC". Yes it sounds like a paradox but I have some ideas 17:49:03 hm lag 17:49:03 extreme such 17:49:07 alise, those went missing 17:49:30 alise, and yes these upper pages also includes MMU registers and more 17:49:43 CRISC just sounds like VLIW. 17:49:55 alise, the upper 16 KiB btw 17:49:59 Phantom_Hoover: Precisely. 17:50:05 Vorpal: hm? 17:50:10 reserving 16 pages should be a megabyte 17:50:11 Blatant robbery! 17:50:19 alise, what is page size? 17:50:29 Vorpal: you said page 0 gave 8192 reserved values 17:50:30 so 17:50:34 I assumed 8192*8 bytes 17:50:50 well, 8192 is one possible page size 17:50:54 in bytes that is 17:51:02 hmm actually i'd reserve more 17:51:04 alise, the OS is supposed to read that from a control register during boot 17:51:10 ew 17:51:12 pointless configurability 17:51:21 -!- tombom_ has joined. 17:51:23 hm maybe 17:51:45 Vorpal, make the OS be entirely configurable through XML! 17:51:47 anyway 8192*8 is a bit too large 17:51:49 Phantom_Hoover, har har 17:51:57 Vorpal: but hardware would use this too 17:52:17 alise, also I considered the variable page size thing found not just on x86 but iirc also PPC and SPARC 17:52:18 and it is a good idea 17:52:20 so actually i'd probably reserve maybe 512 pages of 8192 (64-bit)s 17:52:24 that's 32 mebibytes 17:52:26 enough for anyone ;) 17:52:31 ehh, maybe hardware should reserve its own pages 17:52:37 since you could have a huge graphics display 17:52:40 64 17:52:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:52:45 so scratch that idea, just reserve 8 pages or so for the CPU 17:52:57 alise, so maybe supporting 4096 bytes, 4 MB and and 32 MB sized pages might be a good idea 17:52:57 = 512 KiB 17:53:03 Vorpal: support 2^n for all n 17:53:06 -!- augur has joined. 17:53:08 it won't get implemented anyway 17:53:11 alise, also 8 pages isn't enough 17:53:17 it is for the cpu itself 17:53:30 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:55:27 hm 17:55:37 other hardware could allocate its own pages 17:55:41 in the upper region of memory 17:55:52 alise, well okay for page sizes what about: 4096 by default. Hardware could support huge pages, check control registers for that. 17:55:54 (much more durable than in lower region) 17:56:02 Vorpal: 4096 64-bit values, I assume? 17:56:02 alise, since huge-pages do have some merits 17:56:12 also, how about this: no pages 17:56:16 alise, hm, rather large page size? 17:56:25 2048*8 maybe 17:57:46 -!- cal153 has joined. 17:57:46 alise, I do plan on keeping 8 bit char. And some support for mov to read/write 8, 16 and 32 bits. Probably not for any other instructions (those would be pure 64 bit register operations mostly) 17:57:50 no pages at all. think about it 17:58:22 :P 17:58:28 LoseThos! 17:58:38 alise, sure, perfect for your OS. "Reasonably plausible one could port linux or similar to it" was in my plans for this 17:58:40 No rings, either! 17:58:53 One display mode! 17:58:58 -_- 17:59:17 Phantom_Hoover, nice but conflicts with my design goals 17:59:26 Vorpal: basically you're inventing something like Itanium but more boring 17:59:53 Vorpal, if your design goals and LoseThos' conflict, yours are wrong. 18:00:10 alise, I did say '[...] "sane" ISA. Like a replacement for x86-64.' 18:00:24 alise, I was just asking about the endianness issue really 18:01:07 alise, and yes hardware should be able to pick own ranges. After all you would want to put any on-graphics-card RAM into your address space. 18:01:59 Vorpal: forbid hardware allocating a page above a certain number 18:02:03 perhaps restrict it all to negative addresses, for instance 18:02:04 alise, but fixed places work fine for "standard" stuff like CPU registers, MMU control bits, system timer access, and some similar stuff 18:02:13 so that page 1 -- page (a lot) can all be software controlled 18:02:20 forbid as in at the cpu level 18:02:30 i wanna run Hurd on Itanium sometime :-D 18:02:34 alise, well I was considering putting kernel there (below cpu registers). I find that idea done by AMD was rather nice. 18:02:39 but hm 18:02:42 what about this: 18:02:45 nah, no reason to have kernel there 18:02:50 just have it in low finite address space 18:03:31 anyway, are you sure linux requires paging? ucLinux 18:03:42 ab... where a is the sign bit, negative would be hardware as you suggest. the next bit is kernel/userspace. So 01... = kernel, 00... = userspace, 1... = hardware 18:03:58 with 64-bit addresses that wouldn't cut away much after all 18:04:21 you don't really need a concept of kernel 18:04:21 alise, and uclinux is not real linux, it is a separate project. Based on linux yes 18:04:23 it can handle its own 18:04:35 hm 18:04:46 alise, maybe add that as a suggestion simply. 18:05:29 alise, I planned to put the IP at 0xfffffffffffffff8-0xffffffffffffffff (I sure hope I didn't make an off by 1 error here) 18:05:41 alise, hm variable length instructions or fixed length? 18:05:49 both have their merits 18:05:54 err, just put the ip in one of the 8 reserved CPU pages 18:05:56 more than enough space there 18:06:08 alise, well that is in one of them? 18:06:18 the 8 reserved cpu pages are starting at 0 in what i was thinking 18:06:23 that is, you wouldn't just reserve page 0 for null 18:06:26 you'd reserve pages 1-7 too 18:06:31 for CPU stuff 18:06:34 like ip, registers, 18:06:35 etc. 18:06:44 alise, hm... and leaving the address 0 doing nothing? 18:06:47 (8 is more than enough, but you know, leaves expansion room) 18:06:48 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Abandonando). 18:06:55 Vorpal: yes. possibly trap it in the memory interface 18:06:58 and flag up an error 18:07:01 like everything else does 18:07:08 well 18:07:12 it wouldn't even go to the memory interface 18:07:18 since it'd go straight to the cpu to look up a register or whatever 18:07:23 and it could just barf if it gets 0 18:07:28 alise, interesting but the disadvantage is that sometimes you don't get a true NULL dereference. Consider struct->somememeber; where struct is a NULL pointer 18:07:43 and somemember is not the first one 18:07:45 that dereferences struct first, obviously 18:07:51 well 18:07:55 i guess not 18:08:02 Vorpal: well, that'd misbehave, sure 18:08:06 but it misbehaves on current hardware too 18:08:09 Vorpal: one solution would be: 18:08:11 have page 0 completely empty 18:08:14 and only use pages 1-7 for internal stuff 18:08:15 Itanium is Intel's superarchitecture that went wrong, isn't it? 18:08:21 that way, unless your structure is ridiculously big, it'll be trapped 18:08:21 alise, well yes and no. Linux forbids a few pages at the bottom due to this 18:08:28 alise, that sounds reasonably safe 18:08:34 one page should be enough, assuming it's big enough 18:08:36 8192 bytes or more 18:08:40 Phantom_Hoover: yeah 18:09:19 alise, where to put system clock and such? Around CPU registers or somewhere in negative hardware range 18:09:37 around cpu registers, might as well 18:10:15 Vorpal: if you have each be 8192 64-bit values, i.e. 8192*8 bytes, then pages 1-7 get you 448 kibibytes 18:10:23 more than enough to stuff any damn extension you can think of in a lifetime 18:10:28 (yeah, yeah, "should be enough for everyone") 18:10:41 (but you can always start using the high range and pretend to be a piece of hardware if you somehow run out of all that) 18:10:54 alise, I think that might be too large to be useful. 8192 bytes seems better 18:11:08 alise, you could get some memory fragmentation issues with too large pages 18:11:24 fine, make it one 448 kibibyte page :) 18:11:35 and that is constrained by physical RAM, not virtual address space 18:11:45 alise, I meant, too large page size :P 18:11:49 i know 18:11:58 Vorpal: just split it up into more pages, then 18:12:03 and come up with some sort of organisation 18:12:04 like 18:12:13 Registers & Counters 18:12:19 has registers, carry flag and the like, and IP 18:12:24 stuff like that 18:12:30 and something like that. Maybe reserve 512 KiB at the start. 448 seems so uneven 18:12:36 Vorpal: it's 512 KiB 18:12:40 i was counting page 0 as reserved 18:12:42 as the same size 18:12:42 ah yeah with null page 18:12:46 reserved to always barf, that is 18:12:51 so that'd become a few reserved pages, but whatever 18:13:08 (if you do foo->x where foo is null and the structure is bigger than 8 kibibytes, you deserve whatever you get) 18:16:44 alise, negative is 0x8000000000000000-0xffffffffffffffff right? 18:16:50 unless I miscalculated 18:17:05 god knows 18:17:18 i try not to think about such concrete things 18:19:37 0x0000000000000000 - 0x0000000000002000 Illegal memory, will cause a page fault 18:19:37 0x0000000000002001 - 0x0000000000080000 IDCR (ISA-Defined Control Registers) 18:19:37 0x0000000000080000 - 0x7fffffffffffffff Normal address space. 18:19:37 0x8000000000000000 - 0xffffffffffffffff HMA (Hardware Mapped Memory) 18:19:40 alise, I think that is right 18:19:50 why not vliw? too cool for you? :P 18:19:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:20:07 err 18:20:07 off by one error 18:20:07 0x0000000000080000 -> 0x0000000000080001 18:20:07 obviously 18:20:15 -!- Behold has joined. 18:20:22 alise, wait a second, or am I off by one in the other direction 18:20:24 I think I am 18:21:24 0x0000000000000000 - 0x0000000000001fff Illegal memory, will cause a page fault 18:21:25 0x0000000000002000 - 0x000000000007ffff IDCR (ISA-Defined Control Registers) 18:21:25 0x0000000000080000 - 0x7fffffffffffffff Normal address space. 18:21:25 0x8000000000000000 - 0xffffffffffffffff HMA (Hardware Mapped Memory) 18:21:26 that is better 18:21:50 alise, as for VLIW. Could it actually work well? 18:22:05 Sure; well, as well as your crazy CRISC thing would. 18:22:17 Itanium's suckage was mostly Intel being fucktards and nobody else giving a shit. 18:22:21 alise, you haven't seen the instruction set yet (and I haven't written that down yet) 18:22:28 alise, hm... 18:22:48 alise, wasn't there a problem with writing compilers for VLIW iirc? 18:22:49 Vorpal: The main issue with VLIW is compiling for it. 18:22:55 You can easily do it; it's efficiency that's the issue. 18:22:56 I thought Itanium's suckage was down do the impossibility of compiling to it? 18:23:00 Not impossible. 18:23:04 Just not a totally solved problem yet ;) 18:23:08 well yes obviously 18:23:18 Transmeta addresses this issue by including a binary-to-binary software compiler layer (termed Code Morphing) in their Crusoe implementation of the x86 architecture. Basically, this mechanism is advertised to recompile, optimize, and translate x86 opcodes at runtime into the CPU's internal machine code. Thus, the Transmeta chip is internally a VLIW processor, effectively decoupled from the x86 CISC instruction set that it executes. 18:23:20 coool 18:23:44 Intel's Itanium architecture (among others) solved the backward-compatibility problem with a more general mechanism. Within each of the multiple-opcode instructions, a bit field is allocated to denote dependency on the previous VLIW instruction within the program instruction stream. These bits are set at compile time, thus relieving the hardware from calculating this dependency information. Having this dependency information encoded into the instruction st 18:23:44 ream allows wider implementations to issue multiple non-dependent VLIW instructions in parallel per cycle, while narrower implementations would issue a smaller number of VLIW instructions per cycle. 18:23:49 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:24:01 Another perceived deficiency of VLIW architectures is the code bloat that occurs when not all of the execution units have useful work to do and thus have to execute NOPs. This occurs when there are dependencies in the code and the functional pipelines must be allowed to drain before subsequent operations can proceed. 18:24:01 Since the number of transistors on a chip has grown, the perceived disadvantages of the VLIW have diminished in importance. The VLIW architecture is growing in popularity, particularly in the embedded market, where it is possible to customize a processor for an application in an embedded system-on-a-chip. Embedded VLIW products are available from several vendors, including the FR-V from Fujitsu, the BSP15/16 from Pixelworks, the ST231 from STMicroelectroni 18:24:01 cs, the TriMedia from NXP, the CEVA-X DSP from CEVA, the Jazz DSP from Improv Systems, and Silicon Hive. The Texas Instruments TMS320 DSP line has evolved, in its C6xxx family, to look more like a VLIW, in contrast to the earlier C5xxx family. 18:24:13 argh 18:24:14 spam 18:25:46 Oh, no! Lots of text! 18:25:53 Vorpal cannot handle this! 18:26:23 ...... what a strawman 18:26:37 That strawman is a work of art! 18:26:54 http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Sophisticated-and-Cultured-Male 18:26:56 looool 18:27:11 I don't quite see how much more like a VLIW C64xx could look; although it is sort of "optionally VLIW", in that it reads in 8-15 instruction packets, and then those are split to units of 1-8 simultaneously executed ops. 18:27:41 heh 18:27:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:29:18 From what I understand, the "efficiently compiling" problem there is sort-of solved by the fact that it does DSP, so it usually involves doing the same thing to many numbers, which tends to be easy to parallelize. (And of course people do bother to hand-craft assembly too. I don't have any first-hand experience as to how good TI's C compiler is.) 18:29:45 (It costs quite a lot, so presumably it must be good.) 18:30:06 ((Okay, so it's not really *that* expensive; four digits in $s, not more than that.)) 18:31:33 brb 18:31:39 (afk for a bit) 18:44:47 You may disable WFP by setting the value SFCDisable (REG_DWORD) in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ SOFTWARE\ Microsoft\ Windows NT\ CurrentVersion\ Winlogon. By default, SFCDisable is set to 0, which means WFP is active. Setting SFCDisable to 1 will disable WFP. Setting SFCDisable to 2 will disable WFP for the next system restart only (without a prompt to re-enable). 18:44:47 Important: You must have a kernel debugger attached to the system via null modem cable (for example:I386kd.exe or Windbg.exe) to use SFCDisable = 1 or SFCDisable = 2. 18:44:48 WHYYY 18:45:08 back 18:45:29 alise, what is WFP/SFC? 18:45:35 Windows File Protection 18:45:38 stops you fucking with shit 18:46:02 as a coprophiliac, I would like to fuck with Windows' shit 18:46:06 and thus would like it to go away 18:46:19 coprophiliac? 18:46:37 alise, arguably it is a good feature, should result in less support calls for microsoft... 18:46:51 but yeah easier to turn off.... perhaps 18:46:53 Vorpal: it already hides all the windows directories 18:46:59 and makes you click a link to show them 18:47:02 Vorpal: oh, this is only for windows 2000 18:47:09 i think the only way to disable it in XP onwards is to use hacks 18:47:09 Vorpal, coprophiliac: one who enjoys fucking with shit. 18:47:13 -!- nooga has joined. 18:47:13 patched DLLs, etc. 18:47:25 fizzie: Of course, the "efficiently compiling" thing is as opposed to having the CPU pipeline efficiently. 18:47:38 Coprophilia (from Greek κόπρος, kópros—excrement and φιλία, filía—liking, fondness), also called scatophilia or scat,[1] is the paraphilia involving sexual pleasure from feces.[2][3] 18:47:40 pikhq, ah 18:47:48 That is, to enjoy fucking shit. 18:47:53 err 18:47:54 Phantom_Hoover, ^ 18:55:15 pikhq: btw, windows 2000 may depend on ie in strange ways. 18:55:27 being that it is really the first member in the XP What the Fuck IE Abuse family. 18:56:45 alise: Mmmf 18:56:58 pikhq: also, TELL ME HOW TO FUCKING DISABLE WFP IN 2000 I CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT 18:57:05 that is, permanently, without any serial port connected 18:57:13 WFP = ? 18:57:57 Windows File Protection 18:58:02 is stopping me putting the NT4 explorer in there 18:58:19 wait 18:58:20 i may have disabled it 18:58:32 wow 18:58:35 Should be in the System config dialog. 18:58:35 "cd Foo Bar" works in windows 18:58:38 for cd "Foo Bar" 18:58:41 pikhq: nonono, it's registry editing 18:58:48 Aaaaarrrrgh. 18:58:56 yay it worked 18:58:58 Well, nLite has it as a tweak. 18:58:59 now to install explorer 18:59:48 pikhq: Time to restart with the NT 4 EXPLORER FUCK YEAH 18:59:56 IE-LESS INDAHAUS 19:00:11 alise: AWESOME 19:00:18 MINIMALISTS REPRESENT 19:00:26 MNMLSTS RPRSNT 19:00:32 mnmlstsrprsnt 19:00:36 mnmlrpsnt 19:00:41 mnlrpnt 19:00:44 mlrnt 19:00:48 mrnt 19:00:50 mnt 19:00:52 mt 19:00:54 m 19:00:55 19:01:12 pikhq: it didn't work lol. 19:01:38 alise: husàkenn ne, koriȳa. 19:01:48 wat? 19:01:55 pikhq: it's reverted somehow 19:01:58 fuq winduze 19:02:41 http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/jsifaq/jsi-tip-8185-how-do-i-disable-wfp-in-windows-2000-sp4-and-windows-xp-sp1a-.aspx 19:02:48 SP4: Replacing your nice registry option with a hex edit! 19:02:58 Because professional users are morons.(TM) 19:03:23 google still looks fine in IE 5.0 :D 19:05:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:08:24 Should still look reasonable in any web browser, actually. The only fancy stuff in there is Javascript. 19:08:46 pikhq: it actually seems to have a for-crap-browsers version of the results page 19:08:51 which looks like it did in yonder days 19:09:08 i bet some people have some hack to use that as the main page :) 19:09:28 bu 19:10:14 "Windows File Protection Switcher 1.0" 19:10:16 Why didn't I know about this 19:10:20 oh well 19:10:23 *Oh well 19:13:22 FUCK 19:13:22 WPF 19:13:23 TO 19:13:23 ITS 19:13:24 FUCKING 19:13:25 CORE 19:13:25 OF 19:13:26 FUCK 19:14:16 Woo! I ran a patching tool and WPF complained, so it must be happy. 19:14:27 I declare the operation a success. 19:14:58 :P 19:15:20 alise, 16 bits for the opcode of instructions should be more than enough right? (8 is too few, and something in between is... annoying) 19:16:00 Vorpal: variable length 19:16:11 alise, well sure for the instruction 19:16:15 alise, I meant for the *opcode* itself 19:16:18 you want to be able to store common, small things in very small space 19:16:20 so variable length opcodes 19:16:24 hm 19:16:32 for instance, nop or some very common move should just be one byte or so 19:16:35 but 19:16:42 exchange-with-passing-directive-bitmasked-with-port-modulo-8 19:16:50 should clearly not have a priority spot. 19:16:54 alise, I doubt I would have that one :P 19:16:59 well, you know what i mean 19:17:04 just do it vaguely like utf-8 19:17:06 yeah 19:17:27 pikhq: SOMEHOW IT IS THWARTING ME 19:18:15 alise, well, what about 1-63 for common 1-byte ones (opcode 0 should be invalid or such, that way, jumping to zero filled memory will be invalid), remaining ones for 16-bit ones? I have to check how many that gives me 19:20:05 MY WIN2K DISC IS VERY BROKEN 19:20:08 VERY BROKEN INDEED 19:20:18 wow, someone claiming microwaving food is bad for you because it uses radiation to cook your food, which puts radiation in your food 19:20:20 which causes cancer 19:20:31 i am just smiling now and preparing my noose 19:20:37 * pikhq tries to find an ISO *without any mother-fucking hacks applied at all* 19:20:41 pikhq: want mine? SP4 included! No serial required! 19:20:43 No fucking hacks. 19:20:50 I think it just has the serial check removed in the installer. That's it. 19:20:55 Or maybe is a version that never required it, OEM or something. 19:21:05 alise: I want the raw, as-put-on-disc ISO. 19:21:14 pikhq: http://www.torrentz.com/9dbe5e50f715eed52a9eb1c07220aee835f31ec1 19:21:25 pikhq: I am pretty sure it is an OEM version that requires no cd key. 19:21:40 Mmmfkay. 19:21:48 alise, iirc OEM versions of xp were locked to some BIOS ID? Not sure about win2k 19:22:00 WOOOOH 19:22:00 Vorpal: XP started it. 19:22:03 Got a ticket for jaywalking. 19:22:05 I am so proud. 19:22:05 pikhq, ah 19:22:12 Gregor: Now work on arson and murder. 19:22:19 Gregor, "jaywalking"? 19:22:20 alise: Baby steps. 19:22:27 Vorpal: Crossing a street against a crossing signal. 19:22:28 alise: It seems what he did is slipstream SP4 and add the serial to the auto-install config. 19:22:31 Wait, what the fuck? 19:22:34 Gregor, ah 19:22:40 I just realised that you guys actually have jaywalking as an actual thing, and it's a crime. 19:22:58 See, I crossed a road without the passenger light being on... two times today. 19:23:12 Because... all the roads it crossed were either empty or red lighted. 19:23:19 Are you telling me this is actually illegal in America? 19:23:24 You can get *fined* for doing this? 19:23:25 in theory I don't think that is okay here either. But everyone does it. 19:23:30 Yes, and people do it all the time. 19:23:35 Vorpal: Same here. 19:23:45 I LOVE HOW YOU GUYS VALUE THE RIGHTS OF CARS MORE THAN THE RIGHTS OF HUMANS 19:23:48 It's totally great 19:23:48 The police only fine you if it's actually nearly-suicidal for you to do so. 19:23:52 alise: Uh, no. 19:23:52 I doubt anyone would care though here, unless you are holding up traffic 19:23:59 alise: It's also illegal to cross a street against a signal in a car. 19:24:00 I mean, if it was empty no one would care 19:24:09 Gregor: xD 19:24:14 Totally not the same thing, though. 19:24:18 No, no it isn't. 19:24:25 Which is why this is a $20 fine and that would be a $150 fine. 19:24:28 Gregor: Except that pedestrians always always always have right of way. 19:24:34 It's perfectly legal in the UK. 19:24:46 pikhq: Right of way is distinct from legal passage. 19:24:47 And common law says that humans take priority (but it's not a right). 19:25:02 The penalty for it in the UK is, if you do it when there's cars there, you get hit by a car. 19:25:08 alise, um, so if the car is driven by a human? 19:25:14 Barbaric? Maybe. Effective? Yes. And it doesn't cost the state a thing! 19:25:29 Plus, it happens automatically, even if no police officer is around to notice the crime. 19:25:36 Vorpal: What sort of crazy cars do YOU have? HUMAN drivers? Huh? 19:25:45 The road system is very fucked up. 19:25:55 hah 19:25:58 Thin pavements, cars driving at ridiculous speeds with basically no regard for walkers or cyclists... 19:26:01 alise, would not most drivers slow down in such a situation? 19:26:08 ...Ford Prefect didn't make such a stupid mistake after all. 19:26:18 alise, I mean, what if it is a blind person? Or a small child? 19:26:24 Vorpal: Sure, but who says they'll break in time? 19:26:27 Zooooooooom. 19:26:48 alise, s/break/brake/ ? 19:26:55 Yeah yeah whatever. 19:27:21 The crossing is pretty beastly where I'm talking about. 19:27:38 Two streams of traffic coming in, and a stream going out. 19:27:51 Which means that the electronics are a little overly cautious... 19:27:54 alise: Does Ford still make the "Ford Ka"? 19:27:56 alise: "WSUS Offline Updater" is nice. It downloads all of the extent patches for a given version of Windows. 19:27:58 Which means you get held up for thirty seconds or so... 19:28:15 And then you learn to just cross when nothing's coming. Suicide is painless! 19:28:26 I hate the road system. 19:28:28 Which shall let me slipstream a 100% complete Win2k disc. 19:28:34 Gregor: It appears so. 19:28:40 alise: Hahahawesome. 19:28:44 Gregor: wat 19:28:49 pikhq: WHY MUST YOU COMPETE WITH ME 19:28:52 I WILL OBLITERATE YOUR VERY EXISTENCE 19:28:53 The Ford Ka is an American company making fun of your accent right to your face :P 19:29:05 Tru dat 19:29:19 "This is a Ford car, and this is a Ford Ka." 19:29:41 "The Ka is a car; one car is a Ka. A Ford Ka is a Ford car. Ford Ka's a Ford car." 19:29:44 alise: I just wants a Windows VM 19:29:52 That doesn't hurt 19:30:02 Why must it always hurt? 19:30:27 pikhq: So fund Micro2k! 19:32:45 OH 19:32:50 "Shell32.nt4" is actually meant to be called that 19:32:52 not .dll 19:33:59 * pikhq curses at bittorrent 19:34:05 Cannot find peers. 19:34:14 pikhq: Dude. 19:34:17 Use the tracker list. 19:34:19 That's why you use torrentz.com 19:34:31 http://www.torrentz.com/9dbe5e50f715eed52a9eb1c07220aee835f31ec1 --> click uTorrent compatible list --> 19:34:34 select all, paste into torrent client 19:34:38 FWOOM INSTANT SPEED 19:34:52 uTorrent is best? 19:35:04 alise: How do with rtorrent? 19:35:13 (to google) 19:35:56 pikhq: rtorrent is fucking painful in its UI. 19:36:08 Phantom_Hoover: it's the standard list format 19:36:13 hurr let's implement a usual ui using ncurses and the keyboard hurr 19:36:38 alise: Suggestions? 19:37:18 pikhq: Transmission. Not only does it have a daemon/command-line-client version, it also has a really nice GTK UI. 19:37:21 ka for bil e ford ka? 19:37:26 Or a local web version, if you're into that. 19:37:32 pikhq: Oh, Qt too. 19:37:35 19:37:36 And ncurses. 19:37:47 (Although the curses one is in a git repo.) 19:37:52 alise: K 19:39:30 http://img48.exs.cx/img48/1732/sometime0ed.png 19:39:36 Microsoft does have a sense of humour! 19:41:40 alise: So, how do you add a tracker list to Transmission? 19:42:31 Oh, there we go. 19:42:39 pikhq: Yep. :P 19:43:20 Awesome. 19:43:41 WHY INFERNAL MACHINE WHY 19:45:16 Transmission is definitely superior to rtorrent. 19:47:01 (Note: the server/client thing is only done if you explicitly do that, and I think only their specific transmission-remote can actually connect to it. But that's not really much of a problem.) 19:47:04 (Well, and the web interface too.) 19:47:17 pikhq: Dear God it works. 19:47:23 NT 4 Explorer. 19:47:25 On Windows 2000. 19:47:27 Awesome. 19:47:40 Sure, the patched version posted by THE MOST AWESOME PERSON EVER has the XP Professional gradient thing on the start menu but WHO CARES?? 19:47:56 And sure it has the kinda weird circa-95 full-colour icons but that's what editing resources is for. 19:47:58 FUCKING AWESOME 19:48:05 Should be a simple patch to get it to use the Win2k gradient. 19:48:09 pikhq: Of course it's... a bit buggy. 19:48:14 Double click on my computer --> Find: All Files 19:48:16 *Should* be a resource, after all. 19:48:30 XDD "[X] Run in separate memory space" (greyed out) 19:48:33 from the Run dialogue 19:48:55 ahh 19:49:00 pikhq: Double clicking is Find..., not Open 19:49:03 I'm sure that could easily be rectified 19:49:32 Memory usage of explorer.exe: six megabytes. 19:49:37 That's what I like to see. 19:49:55 So then, how do I add a torrent tracker? 19:50:03 Phantom_Hoover: To what? 19:50:15 pikhq: Haha wow it has the active desktop tab in display settings. 19:50:18 Transmission, probably... 19:50:33 alise: Yeah, that's a seperate DLL. 19:50:36 I have no idea what I am doing. 19:50:44 Phantom_Hoover: Double click torrent, or just go to its properties in some other way. Click "Trackers". Click "Add". Or, just click the edit button and paste a list in. 19:51:05 pikhq: It even works with network shares. 19:51:49 pikhq: Another thing that would need to be corrected: Shows the irritating computer icon on folders that are shared or whatever, which basically means all the programs you've installed in the programs menu. 19:51:53 But really, this is minor stuff. 19:51:55 This works almost perfectly. 19:52:09 pikhq: IT EVEN WORKS WITH THE CONTROL PANEL 19:53:51 pikhq: Folder options control panel doesn't work though. Obviously. 19:56:16 pikhq: What we are learning today: NT changes very little. 19:56:46 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:57:23 Even rebooting works. 19:58:15 -!- wareya_ has changed nick to wareya. 20:00:49 -!- Behold has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:00:53 -!- Behold has joined. 20:01:01 "It definitely has its share of glitches, like displaying a dozen instances of Task Manager in the systray, among other things." 20:01:11 pikhq: Apparently you can extract the NT files from an update. 20:02:09 --------------------------- 20:02:09 Printers 20:02:09 --------------------------- 20:02:09 Not enough storage is available to complete this operation. 20:02:09 --------------------------- 20:02:10 OK 20:02:12 --------------------------- 20:02:14 pikhq: Printers folder: don't fuck with it. 20:02:58 welcome to #esoteric, where alise prefixes every messages with pikhq 20:03:23 olsner: but it's all one continuous stream about running the NT4 Explorer in Windows 2k! 20:03:25 he's just trying to pikhq or interest 20:03:28 *our 20:04:03 [ Start ] <- Click here to begin. 20:04:03 <3 20:04:52 Windows 2000 was nice, with updated drivers (and maybe 64-bit support) it would easily be the best windows evar 20:05:45 olsner: no, windows 95 still holds that crown 20:05:49 which me and pikhq are trying to rectify 20:05:54 cool nt4 explorer crashed :) 20:06:29 pikhq: I wonder how Chrome likes being run in NT4's explorer. 20:06:50 It may freak. 20:07:57 Doesn't support Win2k. 20:09:02 sdownport 20:09:35 opera apparently still works on windows 95, but it's not supported 20:11:13 it works great yeah 20:11:15 pikhq: it does 20:11:17 juts not officially 20:11:23 olsner: It lists Windows 95 as a minimum requirement, I thought 20:11:25 alise: Oh, okay. 20:11:31 *just 20:11:34 you need to install it manually 20:13:03 -!- Flonk has joined. 20:16:20 Flonk. 20:16:29 I wonder which of Opera and Chrome would actually run better on 2000. 20:16:30 yus 20:17:14 * Phantom_Hoover wishes he had a class browser and knew how to use it 20:20:52 -!- Harpyon has joined. 20:21:24 Harpyon! 20:21:33 yes? 20:21:57 what's up? :P 20:22:31 Is a harpyon the particle of which harpies are made? 20:22:32 -!- cal153 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:22:35 -!- cal153 has joined. 20:23:16 It is what you want it to be :) 20:23:29 No "official" meaning :P 20:30:39 google.no suggests i mean "Harpyørn" 20:31:55 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:37:53 -!- Slereah has joined. 20:39:50 Emergency maintenance! 20:40:05 What kind of emergency could it me? 20:40:07 *be 20:40:20 -!- Behold has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:40:36 -!- Behold has joined. 20:43:08 -!- cheater99 has joined. 20:44:07 -!- iGO has joined. 20:44:58 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:45:08 An advert on TV has just said that the internet is the most important invention of the 21st century. 20:45:14 * Phantom_Hoover despairs. 20:45:19 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 20:46:00 no. 2 is clearly accurate timekeeping 20:47:36 No. 2? 20:47:54 after the internet 20:48:35 It seems that ARM EABI takes a very progressive stance on floating point equality. 20:48:39 ((float) whatever == (float) whatever_else) always => false 20:48:45 Even if they're bit-per-bit identical. 20:49:11 Conversely, != is always true, even if they're bit-per-bit identical. 20:49:17 Excluding infinity and NaN cases of course. 20:52:36 -!- Flonk has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:53:29 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if Rand cultists are forbidden from using floating point stuff. 20:53:43 Floating point is the root of most evil. 20:54:00 * oerjan _thinks_ he gets Phantom_Hoover's reference 20:54:28 Answers on a postcard. 20:54:54 mailed to somewhere in aisa 20:56:02 Gregor, (double) sqrt(evil); 21:01:04 -!- MigoMipo has quit (*.net *.split). 21:01:05 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 21:01:11 -!- yiyus has joined. 21:01:37 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 21:01:42 Is it just me, or is Facebook collapsing under its own weight? 21:01:57 not just you 21:02:05 It's totally collapsed 21:02:33 it's been gradual, too. lately notifications and chat has been failing, and earlier today it all just stopped 21:03:36 Yeah, it's dead right now. 21:03:48 Woo! 21:03:51 Anarchy! 21:03:54 And unfortunately, it probably gets more traffic while dead than while alive :P 21:04:00 So it's tough for it to come back up. 21:04:01 I know, it's kind of awesome :P 21:04:12 -!- marchdown_ has joined. 21:04:12 -!- marchdown_ has quit (Excess Flood). 21:06:58 Oh, look, it came back. 21:07:47 -!- marchdown_ has joined. 21:08:22 back already? 21:08:25 oh, yeah :P 21:08:52 So, will they not be telling us why this happened? 21:09:08 they probably just spilt coffee on a server or something 21:09:58 unavailable again? 21:10:18 Noöne knows. 21:21:02 -!- marchdown_ has quit (Quit: marchdown_). 21:35:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 21:50:55 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:55:31 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:00:48 -!- Harpyon has quit (Quit: Harpyon). 22:06:54 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 22:13:37 An advert on TV has just said that the internet is the most important invention of the 21st century. 22:13:39 yeah i hate that one >_< 22:14:06 who has EVER seen the stupid confused.com logo thing as female before, either? 22:14:15 she even morphs when she goes back in at the end to look male 22:14:26 It's the LOGO, silly. 22:14:33 You can't go around changing it! 22:14:39 :P 22:15:37 At least, not without paying an ad company to dynamically synergise it with the proactive paradigm! 22:20:52 pikhq: Every pageload in IE, NTx4r (en tee ex four er; NT4 explorer) crashes and reloads. :) 22:23:20 * Sgeo sads at Diaspora not being written by competent persons 22:24:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:24:52 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 22:24:52 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:25:47 Vorpal: make the processor 72-bit 22:26:06 Vorpal: no, 96-bit! 22:26:08 it's half-way to 128-bit 22:26:15 Sgeo, that was that magic social network, yes? 22:26:54 you already knew they weren't competent: they think *facebook* was a damn good idea, if only it was more nerdy 22:27:18 as if facebook was anything less than being nearly the death of people communicating in non-infuriating ways with even a hint of intelligence 22:27:52 -!- nooga has joined. 22:31:48 pikhq: I... don't think NT 4 has quick launch. 22:31:51 That is... not good. 22:32:30 hah 22:32:46 pikhq: I have a theory that Opera is actually powered by the annoyingness of its default interface. 22:32:57 They make it stupider every release. 22:33:27 as if facebook was anything less than being nearly the death of people communicating in non-infuriating ways with even a hint of intelligence <-- myspace? 22:33:42 Vorpal: nobody with a hint of intelligence signed up for myspace in the first place, so no loss 22:33:51 alise, ah good point 22:34:02 well ok i did sign up but only to be snarky and that was before facebook was anything more than for the pretentious college kids 22:34:17 ah right 22:34:30 alise, never signed up to facebook I hope? 22:34:50 i did, but in my defence it had just been released to the public and still had a reputation of being far less stupid than myspace. 22:34:53 for instance, there were no apps. 22:35:01 hah 22:35:08 the last time i signed in was to play go with a friend to avoid the hassle and unlikelihood of him installing gnu go 22:35:19 this lasted a very short time, as i am the only person worse than him at go 22:35:35 Vorpal: btw, i'm not actually using nt4 22:35:47 i've just transplanted NT4's (i.e. Windows 95's) Explorer onto Win2k 22:35:57 so it controls the desktop, the file management, the task bar and the start menu 22:36:12 oh, and logging out, shutting down and rebooting, of which it can do none, but i'm sure that can be fixed 22:38:41 -!- augur has joined. 22:39:33 oh, it hasn't entirely figured out click-minimising yet, either 22:39:41 as in clicking on the taskbar 22:39:44 pikhq: how goes your efforts? 22:41:22 pikhq: windizupdate works perfectly. 22:42:45 Does Agda have any merit as a dependent programming language? 22:43:52 It's a terrible proof assistant, but... 22:43:58 Phantom_Hoover: As research, sure. 22:44:02 It's not the worst thing ever. 22:44:06 The devs are mostly nice people. 22:44:16 It's just that a lot of stupid people have promoted it in very stupid ways. 22:44:29 Do the devs pretend it's a proof assistant? 22:45:37 well, they pretend you can do some sort of proving with it 22:45:45 but if you said you were gonna prove riemann i doubt they'd recommend it. 22:45:48 it's definitely a research project 22:45:49 Well, you *can*, just not at all well. 22:46:13 One of XChat-GNOME's quirks is starting to get at me 22:46:21 alise: Bah 22:46:30 alise, I decided that long jumps and call must go to an even address. That has the advantage of being able to use LSB to indicate absolute/relative IP 22:46:47 pikhq: bah what? 22:46:48 If someone writes multiple lines in a row, the nick is only shown for the first 22:46:57 Humbug. 22:46:58 Sgeo: you can disable that. but if you're gonna fuck with settings, install xchat 22:47:01 pikhq: i mean to what :P 22:47:07 Humbugs. 22:47:09 Vorpal: ew 22:47:14 Vorpal: make it an extra 1-bit parameter 22:47:52 alise, but that means instructions won't start at byte boundaries! 22:48:31 Vorpal: you have no knowledge of the risc my friend 22:48:35 Vorpal: pad it out to a byte, but don't pad 22:48:38 make it do something useful instead 22:48:42 hah 22:48:46 for instance, let it serve as small constant storage 22:48:52 or perhaps do something to a register 22:48:57 Vorpal: not joking, this is basically how you design a risc! :p 22:48:59 alise, and okay, Now it is an extra 1 bit parameter. It is stored after the 31 most significant bits of the address :P 22:49:10 What does Coq even *do* when it compiles? 22:49:19 alise, err 63 I meant 22:49:20 not 31 22:49:43 alise, as for the constant, hm, for what in a jump 22:49:45 or call 22:49:57 Vorpal: just make it get put somewhere 22:50:00 or shift some value 22:50:02 or whatever 22:50:03 Phantom_Hoover: clever 22:50:05 alise, hah 22:50:15 alise, that explains some weirdness of some RISC :P 22:51:02 alise, anyway I can't think of any other useful addressing modes than abs/relative pc for jumps and calls 22:51:06 so that limits that 22:51:12 for some other it is obvious 22:51:39 of some multiple? 22:51:42 or perhaps power addresses 22:51:46 for a crazy executable b-tree 22:51:55 where it literally jumps around the binary tree! 22:52:05 I mean, bit shift? Ah, you have the flags: rotate, arithmetic, rip/abs/off-reg 22:52:14 alise, sounds fun 22:52:26 Vorpal: yes, requires executable code though, and you're too boring to do that 22:52:38 alise, executable code? 22:52:38 um 22:52:44 erm 22:52:47 executable data, you know what i mean 22:52:47 data? 22:52:54 because you'd store the binary tree lookup stuff in the tree itself 22:52:56 and jump around it 22:53:08 alise, and that will obviously be supported. As well as having a NX flag, because no-execute is good sometimes 22:53:24 but executable data will probably be supported 22:53:27 it is an useful feature 22:54:19 alise, oh and I went for 256-bit SIMD. 128-bit is so boring 22:55:25 alise, and I'm considering making the SIMD subset of instructions form a VLIW group. Not VLIW as in IA64 exactly though. 22:55:53 rather that horizontal vs. vertical kind of thing 22:55:58 now however: night 23:01:48 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:02:06 -!- EOF has joined. 23:02:10 FORTRAN 23:02:13 !!! 23:02:14 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 23:02:17 FRACTRAN 23:02:19 !!! 23:02:39 indeed 23:03:00 SLEEP: 23:03:07 GOTO SLEEP 23:03:27 No, that'll just put you into an active loop. 23:04:07 Falctortran 23:04:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:04:21 pikhq: Subpixel antialiasing on Windows 2000; discuss. 23:04:40 alise: This is a legitimate argument for using a highly stripped XP. 23:04:49 pikhq: Nonono, as in, I have it. 23:04:54 One could even say that I has it. 23:04:59 alise: Oh. Awesomeness. 23:05:09 svn commit -F suicide_note.txt suicide.c 23:05:16 Nay, that's definitely hot sex. 23:05:25 "Verily, hot sex." 23:05:48 pikhq: http://www.cobyx.com/software/gdi/ 23:05:52 Based on unmaintained: http://drwatson.nobody.jp/gdi++/index-en.html 23:06:02 It links to a 2ch thread and a Japanese page about the new version they're doing, but whatever. 23:06:08 alise: By god yes. 23:06:10 pikhq: Note: Tweaking the ini is a pain and such, but. 23:06:18 pikhq: Configuration three in gditray defaults is quite nice. 23:06:21 Probably beats fontconfig. 23:06:23 But they're all a little bit under-hinted. 23:06:35 pikhq: As in, sometimes it seems to completely ignore the ini. 23:06:42 Oh. Eeeeew. 23:06:48 pikhq: Well, no. 23:06:53 I think if you use one of the 1/2/3 ini files it works. 23:07:02 Anyway, I have never before seen NT4 explorer using subpixel antialiasing. 23:07:07 Actually maybe that screenshot of it in XP had it. 23:07:09 But still! 23:07:15 lol 23:07:22 pikhq: it actually smooths /Microsoft Sans Serif/ 23:07:27 I think it can even smooth Terminal 23:07:37 ahm 23:07:39 *ah, no, not terminal 23:08:16 terminus without aa 23:08:17 I do have to give Microsoft credit for at least having fonts that look decent while aliased. 23:08:21 and aesome, and vims 23:08:25 awesome* 23:09:00 and urxvt 23:09:02 no icons 23:09:08 no wallpaper 23:09:15 alise: Microsoft Sans Serif, BTW, is the Truetype version of MS Sans Serif. 23:09:18 no window borders 23:09:22 yayayay 23:09:25 pikhq: Err, right. 23:09:32 pikhq: Unfortunately you can't antialias window titles or the default menu font. :) 23:09:39 SLEEP: 23:09:45 GOTO SLEEP 23:09:56 coma, rather 23:10:36 pikhq: And no, I don't know how to make GDI++Tuner save, either. 23:10:37 lol 23:11:14 somebody should leak the windows source code, then make GPL'd versions of every file 23:11:43 microsoft would never admit the whole source was leaked 23:11:44 EOF: Wouldn't work the way you think. 23:11:45 EOF: you are a moron 23:11:50 Also, ReactOS. 23:11:53 EOF: Wouldn't work the way you think. 23:11:53 EOF: you are a moron 23:11:56 Two paths were taken that day 23:11:57 lulz 23:12:58 $ cd suicide 23:13:00 pikhq: Ever noticed how nice Palatino Linotype is? No? That must be the GDI++ talking. 23:13:36 svn commit -m "Farewell, cruel world!" 23:14:10 * pikhq mutters about niche music being impossible to pirate 23:14:29 I just want something other than shitty MP3s from a decade ago. 23:14:34 pikhq: Not quite true... 23:14:35 But it can be. 23:14:53 There is a knack to it, you know 23:14:54 *know? 23:14:58 ohh 23:15:12 GOTO isohunt.com 23:15:12 alise: The problem is that I'm picky. 23:15:35 torrents often have proper 320kbps encoding of songs 23:15:47 evern for your niche shit 23:15:52 EOF: That's not proper, that's evil. 23:16:00 pikhq: gdippManager may be better than gditray. Not sure. 23:16:06 well 23:16:09 EOF: you are even more of a moron than previously suspected. 23:16:12 and the LAME developers hate you 23:16:14 people use mp3 23:16:14 Seriously, if you're going to use lossy encoding you should use one that's lower quality but still effectively transparent. 23:16:18 -!- tombom_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:16:23 i HATE IT 23:16:25 Like -V2 --joint-stereo. 23:16:26 BUT 23:16:27 And if you're going to use a high bitrate encoding you might as well use FLAC. 23:16:43 FLAC ft 23:16:46 WINN 23:16:51 alise, why does Flash keep crashing? 23:16:54 320 kbps MP3 is the worst of all worlds. 23:16:58 Sgeo: because it hates you 23:17:00 because it's flash 23:17:11 How do I make it not crash? 23:17:16 Don't run it. 23:17:19 by not using it 23:17:23 pikhq: Yay, I got the config working. 23:17:30 inb4 23:17:33 That is waaay too much hinting. 23:17:38 Wasn't alise p,laying with OSS or something to get it working? 23:17:47 flash always sucks 23:17:47 deal 23:17:53 with 23:17:54 it 23:18:15 * EOF deals with it all over your mom 23:18:36 sorry 23:18:53 i've had way too much programming serum 23:19:44 C8H10N4O2 23:19:53 i hate you 23:20:08 i hate me too 23:20:10 pikhq: Grr, it's so tricky to tweak. 23:20:18 tricky to eat 23:21:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:22:08 eicky to treat 23:22:31 treky to eicat 23:22:44 eicay to trekt 23:22:58 eicayt otrekt 23:23:20 eicakt otreyt 23:23:27 holy fuck spider goats: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/Genetics%20Nightmare/spider_goats.htm 23:24:25 pikhq: Any luck with GDI++? 23:24:32 Configuring it is the biggest bitch in the history of bitch. 23:24:59 alise: Not been futzing with it. 23:26:43 In Perl, if I'm using a dynamically scoped variable, say, set something at the top level, get it at some subroutine somewhere? 23:26:50 Might something in the middle accidentally modify it? 23:26:55 So, report: It is possible to run an operating system from 2000 with a desktop shell from 1996 and modern subpixel rendering technology that involves hacking the fundamental graphics library from 2006. 23:26:59 And all of this basically works. 23:27:11 Sgeo: what? 23:27:15 I _think_ Factor avoids this. Variable names are words in vocabularies, so no collisions 23:27:36 Maybe I should write something quickly 23:27:57 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:28:57 alise: that says something! 23:29:04 dunno exactly what though 23:29:11 olsner: yes, and what it says is this: Microsoft are really crazy about backwards compatibility. 23:29:18 And... forwards... compatibility. 23:29:31 And Dear God You Are Molesting My Files compatibility. 23:30:54 http://ideone.com/G0ptn 23:31:06 pikhq: http://offset.skew.org/wiki/User:Mjb/GDI%2B%2B 23:31:07 Paaain 23:31:19 Sgeo: word wrap fail. 23:32:28 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 23:33:09 pikhq: tl;dr japs are doing their crazy thing and developing new perfect version. mortals sit baffled 23:33:56 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 23:34:29 your summary is awesome, I wonder if it implies awesomeness in the actual thing 23:34:29 pikhq: What do you think of Server 2003? 23:34:36 It's like Windows 2000 but for XP. 23:34:51 olsner: it basically hacks custom font rendering -- in the new version, freetype -- into windows' GDI library 23:34:55 so it is awesome in the oh god trauma way 23:35:48 mom 23:35:55 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:36:10 ;| 23:37:26 alise: From what I've seen of it, it... Doesn't suck. 23:37:36 pikhq: Maybe we should... 23:37:47 Of course, it's a "professional" OS, instead of end-user tinkertoy bullshit. 23:38:00 Which counts for a lot. 23:38:00 pikhq: You can push it into workstation mode. 23:38:18 With sufficient rohypnol. Uh, forget I said that. 23:38:19 Yup. 2003 Pro is the workstation version. 23:38:28 And it's not end-user tinkertoy bullshit. :) 23:38:28 pikhq: I mean you can push the actual server version into workstation mode. 23:38:38 Ah, right. 23:44:15 Hey, it can reboot now. 23:44:31 "Built on NT Technology" -> "Built on New Technology Technology" 23:44:36 That's smrt. 23:45:19 if you don't know that the T in NT stands for technology, you will need it written out for the sentence to make sence 23:45:21 *sense 23:45:38 Yeah yeah :P 23:46:03 I don't get what the big deal is with "lol, same word wice in a row if you expand the acronym" 23:46:04 -!- Behold has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:46:21 -!- TwokNT4GDIpp has joined. 23:46:29 ...is the technology I am using right now. Also Opera. 23:46:36 olsner: i don't care like some stupid people do 23:46:40 i just found it a bit amusing in this case 23:46:44 alise: good! :D 23:46:52 a "scsi interface" means a whole lot more than "a scsi" 23:47:06 "ATM machine HURRR and whenever anyone says 'radar ranging' I'm ON their ass" 23:48:11 This is perverse. 23:48:41 Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i860 23:49:11 hmm... I wonder if I can set up my shell to run everything through time, I'm almost obsessed with timing my commands but always forget to add 'time ' on the beginning and then I have to start all over again :) 23:49:52 olsner: send the time output to a temporary file and store it in a variable :) 23:50:12 for instance "times" would cat the time of the last command 23:50:17 "times 1" second-last 23:50:18 "times 2" etc 23:50:20 *etc. 23:50:26 up to about 10 recorded times 23:50:36 olsner: and hide the output normally 23:50:41 after all, there's no kill like overkill 23:50:42 yeees, but I would have to run through time and store the times anyway 23:51:02 I might as well just *display* it as part of the prompt :) 23:51:28 :D 23:53:06 olsner: i have this crazy suspicion you use zsh 23:53:41 -!- sshc_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:53:45 I used to use it but then I reinstalled and realized I was too lazy to configure a non-standard shell 23:53:56 -!- EOF has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:55:22 -!- sshc has joined. 23:57:28 "The i860 did see some use in the workstation world as a graphics accelerator. It was used, for instance, in the NeXTdimension, where it ran a cut-down version of the Mach kernel running a complete PostScript stack." 23:57:42 apparently I, ehird, am a "electric humanoid intelligent robotic daemon™" 23:57:44 *an 23:57:49 olsner: haha 23:57:58 that's such an awesome use for a general-purpose processor