00:01:57 <Sgeo> Got the compressed air.
00:02:01 <Sgeo> About to start vacuuming
00:02:29 <lifthrasiir> anyway I now have this: http://j.mearie.org/post/1181041789/brainfuck-interpreter-in-2-lines-of-c
00:02:43 <alise> lifthrasiir: pah, it's three characters in J
00:03:14 <alise> lifthrasiir: unfortunately, Unicode is not big enough to contain them!
00:03:25 <alise> it looks like a brain, and then [censored], and then an IO relay.
00:03:33 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
00:03:35 <alise> "Well, I ended up with a slightly large program than a tweet" -- no, no, Twitter is a website where you can twit twats!
00:03:43 <alise> not tweet tweets! :-P
00:04:01 <alise> lifthrasiir: isn't read/write shorter than syscalls?
00:04:30 <alise> hmm, it isn't compliant
00:04:33 <alise> failing on non-instruction chars
00:04:39 <alise> also, calling main recursively is verboten, i'm pretty sure
00:04:44 <Sgeo> alise, no, that's after I run N1> ddrescue --no-split /dev/sda imagefile logfile
00:04:50 <Sgeo> Sorry, just needed a reminder
00:05:03 <Sgeo> The device will probably be different. That's ok, right?
00:05:24 <alise> lifthrasiir: wow, telling Chrome to translate the crazy network post was a mistake
00:05:26 <alise> "I'm going to feel lived several years in KAIST, KAIST network through the ranks at the KAIST She can not think. What I have in the school network, six sigma, it's just asking for your availability, "a little less" hope the dead, still comes to the school network, obesity, increased noticeably, thanks to Ross Ping KAIST FTPalso left a lasting impact. Hanggongeopgyenya what you guys have? When the rain delay?"
00:06:07 <alise> korean is optimised for machine translation art
00:06:22 <lifthrasiir> anyway that is about a problem of discarding HTTP packet with words "||", "from", "*" and "set" in that order
00:06:28 <alise> http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://j.mearie.org/post/862288439&act=url
00:06:33 <alise> link to the translation
00:06:39 <lifthrasiir> the gateway silently discards packets after them
00:06:43 <alise> "But ... in my dorm under the posts once the bitter blow that almost never got to writing? That's so strange: I've checked, this came out."
00:06:46 <Vorpal> <alise> korean is optimised for machine translation art <-- indeed
00:06:55 <Vorpal> Swedish<->English or such generally works better
00:06:58 <alise> i had no idea what the post was about until you told me, but i didn't care
00:07:02 <alise> it was beautiful enough
00:07:07 <Vorpal> similar language family though
00:08:00 <Vorpal> lifthrasiir, what about CJK<->CJK?
00:08:20 <SgeoN1> Vacuum appears to have had little to no effect
00:08:32 <lifthrasiir> Vorpal: J-K is very readable, but C-K and J-K is far from perfect
00:08:41 <alise> lifthrasiir: you could put the star there with &#foo
00:08:57 <alise> oh HTTP packets only
00:09:16 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, not a high power vacuum? The Miele at home tends to be very very efficient
00:09:58 <SgeoN1> I think a lot of the dust was actually caught in te metal
00:09:59 <alise> Content-type: text/plain
00:10:11 <SgeoN1> Need different screwdriver
00:10:30 <lifthrasiir> alise: I didn't test HTTP response... but it detects HTTP requests
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00:18:19 <SgeoN1> http://i.imgur.com/SjRd8.jpg
00:22:11 <SgeoN1> I'm pretty sure I saw a thing of dust go under the motherboard
00:28:08 * SgeoN1 hopes be didn't just damage an epectronics
00:28:18 <SgeoN1> I saw the stuff look liquidy
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00:40:06 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/MHcC
00:44:02 <zzo38> I added the BytePusher logo to the table of contents page of the ByrePusher implementation, just like the BytePusher logo in the wiki
00:44:03 <SgeoN1> http://i.imgur.com/kGgUu.jpg
00:44:25 <SgeoN1> I don't think this problem is resolvable. I think they just wont fit
00:46:31 <SgeoN1> Dammit, wake up, somebody!
00:49:21 <SgeoN1> In hardware incompetence, no one can hear you scream
00:51:36 <zzo38> SgeoN1: What is your problem?
00:51:52 <SgeoN1> Need to put HD in computer. Cannot
00:51:53 <zzo38> It looks like that is the wrong kind of connection
00:52:31 <zzo38> You need to get a different hard drive!!
00:52:47 <SgeoN1> No. This hard drive is broken, and has stuff on it
00:52:52 <zzo38> (If you want to transfer the files, go somewhere else borrow a computer with both)
00:53:10 <SgeoN1> Maybe an external disk mount thingy?
00:53:37 <SgeoN1> I have an old HD that I haven't looked at in years. Maybe ill go check it out
00:54:47 <zzo38> SgeoN1: Yes, use an external connector if you have one of that
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01:04:39 <Vorpal> <SgeoN1> No. This hard drive is broken, and has stuff on it <-- you can't mix PATA with SATA obviously
01:04:47 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, the computer has PATA, the drive is SATA
01:06:30 <SgeoN1> At any rate, there's an ancient HD that I want to take a look at. First thing I'll do, SMART, if there are significant errors ill back this up too
01:06:33 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, also, putting a disk upside down like that makes me nervous. Don't run it upside down (should work but...)
01:06:49 <SgeoN1> That disk isn't in there anymore
01:06:53 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, if it is ancient it's probably PATA
01:07:19 <SgeoN1> Ancient drive is PATA. does PATA not have SMART?
01:09:08 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, it may or may not
01:09:15 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, really old drives won't
01:09:26 <Vorpal> but that must be like 2001 or earlier
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01:10:04 <Vorpal> for example, the drive in my old ibook lacks SMART
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01:13:55 <SgeoN1> Why is Parted Magic starting sshd?
01:15:15 <SgeoN1> There should be two drives in the machine. It's only seeing one
01:15:30 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, did you put in the correct jumpers
01:15:34 <Vorpal> you need to do that for PATA
01:15:48 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, before changing that *TURN OFF THE SYSTEM*
01:16:08 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, do under no circumstances change jumpers when the system is connected to power
01:16:16 <SgeoN1> The smart tool only saw one
01:16:49 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, I hope you put one as master and one as slave (unless existing one was as cable select, then put all as cable select)
01:16:54 <SgeoN1> Wait no, those are partitions
01:17:17 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, see what I said wrt jumpers at back of pata drives
01:18:08 <SgeoN1> Right, didn't see labels, so hoped for the best. Will check
01:18:26 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, and *TURN OFF BEFORE CHANGING*
01:18:38 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, changing live = probably going to short a lot of stuff
01:19:01 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, well, before you change that you need to turn the thing off and unplug
01:19:04 <SgeoN1> And I wouldn't even dream of touching a live computer
01:19:22 <SgeoN1> Do you think I'm an idiot? Oh wait...
01:19:33 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, as a matter of fact: yes I do
01:19:54 <SgeoN1> I'm also award of Tue danger of static electricity
01:20:15 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, hot plugging anything inside a computer is best left for experts in data centers.
01:20:26 <Vorpal> it is not possible on consumer PCs
01:21:04 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, well, there are some sort of servers where you can hot plug RAM. Or even CPUs
01:21:26 <Vorpal> it needs special hardware
01:21:32 <Vorpal> if you don't know about it, you don't have it
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01:29:46 <Sgeo> Vorpal, stop talking to me like I'm an idiot
01:29:52 <Sgeo> You don't need to repeat yourself
01:30:09 <Sgeo> Although, does the software need to co-operate too? What OSes can do it?
01:30:24 <Sgeo> And I assume all such machines are multi-CPU if CPUs are hot-swappable
01:30:32 <Sgeo> Unless they go to sleep while the CPU is out
01:32:46 <pikhq> Yes, they're multi-CPU. And there is OS support needed.
01:32:56 <pikhq> Support for it is almost exclusively in UNIX systems.
01:33:14 <pikhq> (I don't think it's *possible* for it to be in Windows)
01:34:50 <SgeoN1> Vorpal, the jumper stuff is unlabelled
01:36:08 <SgeoN1> http://i.imgur.com/yXocA.jpg
01:37:21 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, what about the top
01:37:34 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, one of them generally have labels describing the jumpers
01:38:05 <Vorpal> <Sgeo> Although, does the software need to co-operate too? What OSes can do it? <-- linux can iirc.
01:38:10 <SgeoN1> Should I check what the other drive has?
01:38:15 <Vorpal> <Sgeo> And I assume all such machines are multi-CPU if CPUs are hot-swappable <--- and yes
01:38:26 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, if the other one has master, this one should be slave
01:38:33 <Vorpal> if that is what you means
01:38:40 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, on the same cable that is
01:38:56 <SgeoN1> Also, what is Cap Limit?
01:38:58 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, if you connected it to the cable with CD on it, then it needs to be the same there
01:39:18 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, um... guessing here... compat mode for old BIOSes
01:39:21 <Vorpal> don't touch that stuff
01:40:06 <SgeoN1> I think I can just check the drive that used to be in there, because that worked
01:40:41 <Vorpal> alise, I got my hands on an old Dell Latitude D610. Which linux distro should I install?
01:40:42 <nooga> i want quadrocopter!
01:41:01 <Vorpal> nooga, boring, I want to try something exotic
01:41:15 <SgeoN1> ... there is no jumper
01:42:06 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, check what no jumper means on the other drive then
01:42:17 <Vorpal> in which case both drives should be on cable select
01:42:24 <SgeoN1> I don't see the label on the other drive
01:42:29 <nooga> hot swappable computers
01:42:32 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, a bit tricky then
01:42:36 <SgeoN1> Erm, as in the removed one
01:42:38 <alise> <Vorpal> alise, I got my hands on an old Dell Latitude D610. Which linux distro should I install?
01:42:44 <SgeoN1> Checking actually attached one now
01:42:45 <alise> like what kinda specs
01:42:56 <nooga> i want to hot-swap my whole laptop at once so that my system would still run
01:43:00 <Vorpal> alise, Pentium M @ 1.86 GHz
01:43:38 <alise> i was just about to say fedora for no particular reason, but eff you nooga
01:43:46 <alise> Vorpal: note: people use rpm as much as dpkg nowadays
01:43:53 <alise> and people have foul memories of rpm because of dependency hell
01:43:56 <alise> just like pure dpkg would have ;)
01:44:01 <Vorpal> alise, I'm thinking arch or maybe nixos?
01:44:14 <alise> Vorpal: NixOS would be cool
01:44:21 <alise> Vorpal: hmm, thinking what else
01:44:34 <alise> Vorpal: oh, the choice is obvious!
01:44:36 <Vorpal> alise, can you put nixos on a usb stick? I'm a bit short on CD-R currently
01:44:45 <alise> but it is very very painful
01:44:50 <alise> well not that painful
01:44:54 <alise> mostly it was my mistake
01:44:55 <Vorpal> alise, and which BSD? It isn't a toaster, so it can't be NetBSD
01:44:58 <alise> or rather the web server's mistake
01:45:05 <alise> Vorpal: well FreeBSD is the boring linuxy one
01:45:12 <SgeoN1> I can't seem to remove the drive to get a good look
01:45:17 <alise> OpenBSD is gonna try and stop you even USING such an insecure machine!
01:45:19 <Vorpal> alise, well I used freebsd quite a bit
01:45:35 <alise> DragonflyBSD has, according to cpressey, a bit of a weird culture like FreeBSD
01:45:39 <alise> and NetBSD's software is a bit old
01:45:44 <alise> (X is a few major versions out of date)
01:45:55 <alise> but then the computer is old ;)
01:45:56 <Vorpal> alise, and this is not a toaster, even though it gets quite hot easily
01:45:57 <alise> Vorpal: because linux is boring now!
01:46:09 <SgeoN1> I suppose guessing what jumpers mean is a bad thing?
01:46:11 <alise> Vorpal: NO WAIT I KNOW
01:46:15 <alise> Vorpal: FUCKING MASTODON
01:46:19 <alise> Vorpal: put mastodon on it
01:46:25 <alise> it may not have been updated for yonks, but neither has your laptop been
01:46:27 <alise> and it's fucking awesome
01:46:37 <alise> XFree86 version OLD!
01:46:42 <Vorpal> alise, if I can get it on an usb stick, and I doubt that
01:46:52 <alise> Vorpal: there's floppies or an install CD
01:46:57 <alise> the install CD is about 500-600 MiB
01:47:00 <Vorpal> alise, floppies = tricky
01:47:02 <alise> nooga: the most retro linux distro ever
01:47:04 <alise> Vorpal: so do it with a CD
01:47:06 <alise> Vorpal: use unetbootin
01:47:11 <alise> it can put any bootable iso onto a usb stick
01:47:22 <SgeoN1> http://i.imgur.com/irLDq.jpg
01:47:28 <nooga> i'd go for plain FreeBSD
01:47:39 <nooga> dragonfly is also quite cool
01:47:49 <GreaseMonkey> <alise> and NetBSD's software is a bit old <-- it DOES keep at least some of the software in its repos up to date
01:47:51 <Vorpal> the boring and sane alternative would be Arch.
01:48:02 <nooga> Vorpal: run Plan9 natively
01:48:03 <SgeoN1> Also, the thing that didn't work is currently slave, so trying cs would make sense
01:48:13 <alise> Vorpal: arch is i686
01:48:16 <alise> far too modern to be allowed
01:48:23 <Vorpal> alise, this is pentium m
01:48:24 <alise> nooga: cpressey has soured me to dragonfly :P
01:48:27 <alise> Vorpal: TOO MODERN
01:48:40 <Vorpal> alise, I verified from ubuntu livecd that all those Fn-whatever work under it
01:48:47 <nooga> i gotta go to sleep
01:48:48 <SgeoN1> And if these keys are the same, the CD is not master, so..
01:49:28 <Vorpal> <SgeoN1> http://i.imgur.com/irLDq.jpg <-- just a blur?
01:50:01 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, another idea: temporarily unplug the cd while this is happening
01:50:09 <Vorpal> then you are on the safe side
01:50:15 <alise> Vorpal: how much are you charging SgeoN1 for this undeferred consultancy?
01:51:04 <alise> "Some people seem to think that C is a real programming language, but they are sadly mistaken. It really is about writing almost-portable assembly language, and it turns out that getting good results from SHA1 really is mostly about trying to fight the compilers tendency to try to be clever." --Linus Torvalds
01:51:06 <SgeoN1> http://i.imgur.com/irLDq.jpg
01:51:13 <alise> "I think when you told that C is not real prog lang then you meant it is not Turing Complaint. But, it is really hard to prove C is not Turing Equivalent. Can you please give one example?." --Chandra Shekhar Tewary, in a comment on the post
01:51:14 <Vorpal> alise, and I expect he repays this by actually learning after this
01:51:21 <alise> Being retarded: It's what's for dinner!
01:51:27 <Vorpal> <SgeoN1> http://i.imgur.com/irLDq.jpg <-- yeees, just a blur
01:51:35 <Vorpal> it is completely useless to see anything
01:51:37 <alise> haha wow @ his blogger profile
01:51:38 <alise> "Humanized Useless Motion Particle located on the Earth..still learning how to walk alone without harming ecosystem. ETL Designer/Unix Shell Programmer/Lyricist."
01:51:45 <alise> Vorpal: i think SgeoN1 is trying to be artistic
01:51:49 <alise> you can tell because of the bokeh!
01:52:08 <Vorpal> alise, I don't see any book
01:52:15 <Vorpal> alise, I think the green thing is a jumper...
01:52:16 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh
01:52:23 <alise> you're an amateur photographer, you should know this :P
01:52:36 <Vorpal> alise, hm I deal in panophoto
01:53:03 <alise> in the field of computing we know nothing of it
01:53:19 <alise> do you actually aim for anything when making photos or do you just like it if it's 360 degrees
01:53:28 <alise> that panorama you did in that room looking out that window was hideously boring
01:53:38 <Vorpal> alise, I aim for some great scenic views
01:53:59 <Vorpal> alise, and that one in the room was a test one, for the panobot
01:54:05 <Vorpal> alise, it was raining outside...
01:54:13 <Vorpal> alise, and I wanted to test that it worked :P
01:54:21 <SgeoN1> A while ago, I cannabalized a computer for its CD drive
01:54:31 <SgeoN1> The drive is still here
01:56:28 <SgeoN1> What's the worst that happens if the drive is upside down? The cable barely reaches like this
01:58:47 <alise> Do you ask as many questions in real life?
02:03:34 <SgeoN1> Got everything to fit, closing computer
02:04:02 <SgeoN1> I wish I asked more questions. Like, "May I sit next to you? "
02:04:11 <SgeoN1> I'm getting better at that one
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02:09:14 <SgeoN1> I should really, really make a custom grub CD soon
02:09:28 <SgeoN1> Would make my life much easier
02:09:53 <SgeoN1> Used to have a grub floppy when I had issues with my computer
02:10:11 <SgeoN1> To help me to boot into Ubuntu instead of Freespire
02:10:28 <pikhq> GOD DAMMIT GUY WITH THE µTORRENT, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DOWNLOAD FROM ME
02:10:45 <pikhq> IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A GOOD SHARE RATIO WHEN NOBODY DOWNLOADS FROM YOU
02:10:59 * pikhq shall put down the torrent client to avoid violence against algorithms
02:13:06 <SgeoN1> Aaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh
02:13:16 <SgeoN1> Fffffffffuuuuuuuuiuiuuuuuu
02:14:38 <SgeoN1> Lolwhat? This makes no sense
02:16:20 <SgeoN1> Which makes absolutely no sense as that disk should jot have needed a jumper change
02:16:37 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism
02:17:06 <alise> pikhq: maybe his client doesn't do encryption?
02:17:08 <alise> maybe he's set it not to
02:18:09 <pikhq> alise: It does encryption.
02:18:22 <pikhq> His client is clearly set to be a bitch.
02:18:29 <SgeoN1> Yes, I looked at the data. The drive does appear to be failing. Ill go start recovery procedures, there's stuff on here that I want to hold onto
02:20:38 <SgeoN1> Where'd I put the power and USB cable for the external drive?
02:25:36 <Sgeo> Can someone grep logs to see how much space I claimed to have bef.. wait, n/m
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02:30:43 <alise> Vorpal: give your CPU 1024 general-purpose 64-bit registers
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02:32:44 <Sgeo> (not literally)
02:33:18 <alise> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:NevilleDNZ
02:36:40 <pikhq> alise: ÜberRISC, eh?
02:37:01 <alise> pikhq: no, he's doing some hideous hybrid of RISC and CISC
02:37:06 <alise> but registers are super-cool
02:37:15 <alise> with 1,024 you never, ever need to pass arguments on the stack :)
02:37:36 <alise> let's say you support functions with 64 arguments, which is ridiculous, that's still 960 general-purpose registers
02:37:46 <pikhq> Registers are awesomeness. Especially when you could feasibly cease to have a L1 cache because of them.
02:37:47 <alise> of course if your language is based on Scheme's apply then you might have issues :P
02:37:58 <alise> i hate how misunderstood risc is
02:38:02 <alise> like the pdp-8 has 8 basic instructions
02:38:17 <alise> and modern RISCs have a shitload of instructions, and people don't get this
02:38:54 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-8#Instruction_set
02:38:57 <alise> pretty beautiful architecture
02:39:04 <pikhq> Load-store architecture, with equal-sized instructions, a lot of registers. Isn't that RISC in a nutshell?
02:39:23 <alise> pikhq: That's pretty close, yeah...
02:39:51 <alise> pikhq: I wonder if RISC and VLIW are partially reconcilable. :P
02:39:54 <alise> (Only because VLIW is fucking cool.)
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02:40:12 <pikhq> alise: One could have very large instructions of constant size.
02:40:13 <Sgeo> My step-mother's here
02:40:19 <alise> Agrajag: not a curse.
02:40:52 <pikhq> And you could have a *lot* of load-store happening there.
02:41:02 <Sgeo> Well, maybe not literally
02:41:06 <Sgeo> But it must feel like it
02:41:14 <alise> pikhq: Transmeta's x86 Crusoe processor "compiles" instructions down to VLIW, iirc
02:41:18 <pikhq> And of course you'd want, say, 4096 registers to maximize the ridiculous parallelism. :)
02:41:37 <alise> Transmeta addresses this issue by including a binary-to-binary software compiler layer (termed Code Morphing) in their Crusoe implementation of the x86 architecture. Basically, this mechanism is advertised to recompile, optimize, and translate x86 opcodes at runtime into the CPU's internal machine code. Thus, the Transmeta chip is internally a VLIW processor, effectively decoupled from the x86 CISC instruction set that it executes.
02:41:55 <alise> pikhq: I wonder if any RISC CPUs optimise out load/stores somehow.
02:42:06 <alise> Like, "load x -> modify x -> store x" to a direct modification internally.
02:42:37 <pikhq> alise: Nice theory, but the CPU already has to do load, modify, store.
02:43:02 <alise> You know how graphics cards use 2D acceleration to directly mess with the frame buffer?
02:43:07 <alise> Without involving the CPU?
02:43:12 <alise> pikhq: ACCELERATED MEMORY
02:43:29 <alise> You tell the memory, "oh, copy this range to here", or "increment this location", and it does it. >:)
02:44:08 <pikhq> That's called parallelism.
02:44:42 <pikhq> Aaaaand probably wouldn't work as well as you think.
02:45:05 <pikhq> The CPU is not actually operating directly on memory. All of its operations are happening on its cache.
02:50:17 <alise> pikhq: Fine, expose the cache as registers.
02:50:48 <pikhq> Okay, 4096 registers it is.
02:50:58 <pikhq> Well, for L1 cache.
02:51:06 <alise> pikhq: I was about to say :P
02:51:19 <pikhq> For L2, let's say... 2097152?
02:51:22 <alise> pikhq: You mean 393,216.
02:51:30 <alise> 3 mebibytes, because why not.
02:51:36 <alise> I think that's what the top Core 2s had.
02:51:44 <alise> pikhq: Man, imagine giving them names.
02:51:51 <alise> Like the world's biggest Excel spreadsheet.
02:52:04 <pikhq> Actually, it went up to 12.
02:52:24 <alise> That's just stupid though.
02:52:34 <alise> pikhq: 3 mebibytes = MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMCCXVI registers
02:52:40 <alise> We could just name them with roman numerals!
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02:53:02 <alise> Clearly the Romans just needed meta-numerals.
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02:53:14 <pikhq> Except that that's off.
02:53:19 <alise> Then you could write that as:
02:53:32 <alise> That is, CCCXCIII Ms, then CCXVI.
02:53:48 <alise> I know they have the thousands notation and stuff, but that's boring.
02:53:58 <pikhq> alise: They had a one million notation.
02:54:05 <alise> SHUT UP META-NUMERALS ARE BETTER
02:54:12 <alise> Actually knowing the Romans they wouldn't even mark the (...).
02:54:16 <alise> Maybe they'd have just (, or just ).
02:54:33 <alise> You're expected to figure out from context that M is the numeral being repeated!
02:54:39 <alise> (Note: I may hate Roman numerals a bit.)
02:56:11 -!- augur_ has joined.
02:56:12 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:56:51 <alise> pikhq: I, II, VI, VIII, XVI, XXXII, LXIV, CXXVIII, CCLVI, DXII, MXXIV, MMXLVIII, MMMMXCVI; any good student of the calculation-knowledges should memorise these figures.
02:57:33 <pikhq> That'd *actually* be (CCCXC)MMMCCXVI.
02:57:55 <alise> pikhq: wait, they actualy had such a system?
02:58:08 <alise> what does that mean, repeat the M?
02:58:30 <alise> pikhq: No, I was inventing my own notation.
02:58:40 <pikhq> I am using the actual notation.
02:58:53 <alise> x[y] = x, repeated y times, let's say.
02:59:21 <alise> VI[III] = stupidest way of writing 8 ever.
02:59:36 <pikhq> CCC*10^4 + XC*10^4 + MMM + CC + X + VI.
03:00:03 <alise> Mine is better because it's textual!
03:00:09 <alise> Which is pretty damn close to SEXTUAL
03:00:34 * Sgeo learns of Talkers
03:01:09 * Sgeo hastily turns on colored nicks
03:02:11 <Sgeo> http://talker.com/ aww
03:18:23 <alise> pikhq: I propose that we design a processor that doesn't suck. In fact, it will be powered entirely by unicorns. Oh, wait, we're done.
03:18:28 <alise> Thank god for unicorn magic.
03:19:35 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NISC wat
03:19:38 * Sgeo steals alise's kidney
03:21:52 <alise> lol @ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1_(The_Beatles_album)&curid=163213&diff=386862914&oldid=386815336
03:22:06 <alise> It's obviously a hopeless newbie injecting POV because they don't have a MAGIC WIKIPEDIA CABAL USERNAME!
03:22:12 <alise> Revert without reading edit summary!
03:31:35 <pikhq> All I can say is that I am surprised someone could possibly think a Beatles release would *not* sell obnoxiously well.
03:33:34 <Sgeo> Which was more POVy?
03:34:23 <pikhq> "Exceptional" is very POVy. "Exceeded critical expectations" could be demonstrated by noting how various critics were surprised.
03:49:44 <alise> exceptional isn't POVy
03:49:57 <alise> the /reception/ was exceptional
03:50:12 <alise> i.e. it received reception out of the norm; it was received with an excellent reception
03:50:36 <alise> since it was at least partly predicted to sell very well, the reception did not "surpass all critical and commercial expectations"
03:50:40 <alise> however, the reception /was/ exceptional.
03:50:54 <alise> i'd re-revert, but i'm an IP too, so :wikinazi:
03:51:24 <alise> pikhq: Are word-aligned instructions helpful?
03:52:24 <alise> *groan* Fedora 14 introduces systemd, a smarter, more efficient way of starting up and managing background daemons and services. It is a mostly compatible replacement for sysvinit and upstart, supporting SysV and LSB init scripts. See the FAQ and Tips and Tricks.
03:52:29 <alise> How many startup daemons do we have now?
03:53:45 <alise> pikhq: Have you figured out the cure for NIH yet...?
03:54:37 <Sgeo> There's only 3, including Fedora 14's, right?
03:54:47 <alise> Distro-specific ones.
03:54:54 <Sgeo> ....distro specific thingies?
03:54:54 <alise> Random little ones.
03:55:05 <pikhq> alise: Word-aligned instructions are helpful because *generally* a CPU's entire fetching structure is set up around fetching words.
03:55:10 <alise> Sgeo: Believe it or not, but distros used to be the driving force in Linux development.
03:55:13 <alise> In fact, they still are.
03:55:14 <pikhq> alise: Exceptions include: x86 and, uh, x86.
03:55:31 <alise> pikhq: Okay, then my proposed instruction format is this: Every instruction is 24 bytes.
03:56:14 <alise> pikhq: Nope. 64-bit.
03:56:15 <alise> That's three words.
03:56:24 <pikhq> Hrm. So it would be.
03:56:26 <alise> So: opcode, two addresses, and extra operands.
03:56:37 <alise> You shouldn't really have less than two addresses, obviously.
03:56:45 <alise> Especially for literals.
03:56:54 <alise> Two words wouldn't be enough, since you need to stick the opcode in there too.
03:56:56 <alise> So three words, 24 bytes.
03:57:10 <alise> pikhq: Also, in the wonderful RISC tradition, most instructions get something free!
03:57:14 <alise> *something for free!
03:57:27 <alise> NOP? Why, that's two whole words you can easily store a constant in!
03:57:59 <alise> Fedora: distributing on four CDs means you fail at life.
03:58:31 <alise> Oh, that's the "install media".
03:58:36 <alise> What you actually want is the "live CD".
03:58:39 <alise> To "install" with.
04:00:02 <Sgeo> When does SGU Season 2 start?
04:01:53 <Sgeo> Cancellations don't shut me up
04:01:57 <Sgeo> So don't bother..
04:02:09 <alise> Sgeo: Wikipedia says in three days, but that's outdated; it was cancelled a few days ago.
04:03:12 <alise> Dude, it's cancelled.
04:03:24 * Sgeo grepped the page for "season 2" and "season two{
04:03:33 <Sgeo> Instead of just looking at the first paragraph
04:03:48 <Sgeo> And I won't believe you unless you provide a citation. I'm not gullible
04:03:53 <Sgeo> (and the citation actually states it)
04:03:59 <Sgeo> (and the citation is credible)
04:04:06 <Sgeo> (erm, the cited thing, come to think of it)
04:07:42 <Sgeo> Firefox crashed
04:09:22 * Sgeo wishes XChat was integrated with Ubuntu's chat menu thing
04:11:28 <alise> pikhq: Stop me making my own Linux distribution, it's happening again.
04:11:30 <alise> I need an NIH shot.
04:12:15 <pikhq> Sgeo: I've got a citation for it still *not* being cancelled.
04:12:15 <alise> (The NIH vaccination works by making you want to reinvent every single thing for an hour; usually, you vow to refuse to exist as quarks, only resuming existing when you invent something better. This passes.)
04:12:35 <alise> pikhq: YOU JUST SIGNED US UP FOR MONTHS' WORTH OF SGEO TALKING ABOUT SGU
04:12:54 <Sgeo> Since when do I stay focused on a single thing for months?
04:13:15 <alise> pikhq: no he watched all of SGU season 1 at once
04:13:20 <Sgeo> ...ok, point granted
04:14:08 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that I should turn off my old computer several hours ago to try to save the HD
04:14:15 <Sgeo> Although that HD wasn't damaged as sucb
04:14:55 <alise> pikhq: Please tell me why creating a new distribution is a terrible idea
04:15:17 <pikhq> alise: Because you'd have to rewrite everything to do it right.
04:15:25 <alise> pikhq: Not the kernel!
04:15:27 <alise> I can keep the kernel.
04:15:36 <Sgeo> Turns out it was already off
04:15:37 <pikhq> You'd probably *want* to rewrite the kernel.
04:15:44 <alise> Nope! I am blissfully ignoring it.
04:15:55 <Sgeo> What does this large button on my external HD do?
04:15:57 <pikhq> Okay, then you'd have to rewrite everything else.
04:16:27 <alise> Fedora distributes 701.1 MiB Live DVDs. Discuss the inanity.
04:16:44 <Sgeo> Isn't that what fits on a CD?
04:17:14 <alise> A mode-1 CD can fit 650 MiB.
04:17:29 <Sgeo> Incidentally, do I obsessively talk about The Guild or Legend of Neil?
04:17:48 <Sgeo> Both of those are weekly (bi-weekly for LoN) things that I love and don't obsess about in here
04:17:59 <alise> Of course you can get slightly bigger CDs.
04:18:05 <alise> And really, they can fucking fit everything on a CD.
04:18:37 <pikhq> alise: 650 and 700 MiB are the two common data sizes on 12cm discs.
04:18:38 <Sgeo> You can fit everything in 50MiB!
04:19:21 <pikhq> alise: Both of these are 100% compliant; 700 MiB is just a bit closer to the tolerances of the medium, and might not work on a handful of obnoxiously old devices.
04:19:22 <alise> So basically, Fedora are mandating burning a DVD for the sake of 1.1 MiB.
04:19:48 <pikhq> You can get up to about 870 MiB while still being a CD, but your CD drive may kick you.
04:20:35 <alise> ...btw, why do we still distribute music on CD?
04:20:44 <pikhq> Oh, and of course, you can make it *technically* not a CD by cutting down the leadout a bit to get more data.
04:20:54 <alise> It seems like we should be standardising USB pen drive music by now.
04:21:06 <pikhq> RIAA wouldn't stand for it.
04:21:34 <pikhq> They imagine that being a CD makes it somewhat time-consuming to copy. And that digital distribution should be DRM'd.
04:21:58 <pikhq> Also, you *know* that the morons responsible for that would make it a lossy compression format, probably encoded by someone who should never breed.
04:22:21 <alise> In the root directory, tracklst.m3u; subset of m3u only supporting absolute-to-root-of-drive pathnames, not URLs; perhaps no comments, either. Also, no extended m3u.
04:22:40 <alise> WAVs in some container with a simple list of predefined tags for the actual audio.
04:22:47 <alise> This would be trivial to support in a stereo.
04:23:08 <pikhq> See, if that were the format I would be totally happy.
04:23:12 <alise> You need a teeny tiny computer board to read the files, a teeny tiny tag parser, and the rest is done for you.
04:23:25 <alise> pikhq: In fact, if we used extended m3u we could just use plain wavs.
04:23:32 <alise> Since extended m3u stores what are basically tags in the comments.
04:23:40 <alise> This avoids parsing a container in stereos.
04:23:52 <pikhq> WAV is already a container format.
04:23:56 <alise> Yeah, but a tagless one.
04:24:25 <alise> pikhq: We /could/ standardise a raw format, *but* it'd be nice to let the silly 48 kHZ, 24-bit releases stay.
04:24:33 <pikhq> The tags are merely not commonly supported or used.
04:24:48 <alise> pikhq: Ideally, you'd be able to load the m3u on a computer and have it Just Work.
04:25:07 <alise> A bonus to all this is that album length will never be a problem.
04:25:21 <alise> Because a 4 GiB flash drive is dirt-cheap.
04:25:26 <pikhq> alise: One problem with this: CDs are really cheap to produce.
04:25:27 <alise> Also, of course, you can have videos and artwork and crap.
04:25:32 <pikhq> I mean really, really, really cheap.
04:25:45 <alise> pikhq: True. And music is really, really, really expensive.
04:25:50 <alise> Physical music, that is.
04:26:00 <alise> There have been singles released on USB, just no standardisation.
04:26:02 <pikhq> Your proposal would cut into the RIAA's profit margins.
04:26:20 <pikhq> Which rely on 2¢ CDs.
04:26:31 <Sgeo> An old laptop that I found wouldn
04:26:36 <Sgeo> wouldn't be able to play it
04:26:53 <alise> Fuck the RIAA with a rusty tree trunk in the process of being chainsawed.
04:26:59 <alise> Then just, you know, don't stop with the chainsaw.
04:27:07 <alise> In fact, leave the branches on the trunk.
04:27:36 <alise> It is so cool that NeXT computers used magneto-optical drives.
04:27:54 <alise> "Minions! I am Steve Jobs and I want to know the MOST AWESOME TYPE OF FLOPPY DISK POSSIBLE so we can use it to store all the data on."
04:28:07 <alise> "Let's put a rewritable CD IN A FUCKING FLOPPY DISK."
04:28:28 <alise> "HERE MR. JOBS IS OUR TWO GIGABYTE FLOPPY DISK"
04:29:11 <Sgeo> I found an ancient laptop
04:30:16 <alise> pikhq: Ignoring all overhead, a 4 GiB flash drive could store 6.6 hours of CD-quality audio data.
04:30:33 <pikhq> alise: Further if you mandate a lossless compression format.
04:30:45 <Sgeo> Oh wait, there is a USB port
04:30:48 <alise> pikhq: Ye-es, but I'm not sure stereo manufacturers would like that.
04:31:06 <pikhq> Most of them are already including MP3 decoders.
04:31:46 <pikhq> If you go for FLAC, then it'll be easier than decoding MP3.
04:32:06 <Sgeo> It's a Toshiba Sattelite 2595CDT
04:33:04 * Sgeo put his Ubuntu DVD into the CD drive
04:35:16 <alise> Although FLAC has a special fixed-point decoder, right?
04:35:30 <alise> (I wonder why that isn't the main decoder? Maybe I'm imagining this.)
04:37:42 <alise> Wow Fedora's LiveCD boots slowly.
04:37:47 <alise> Why is this one of the most famous distributions?
04:37:58 <pikhq> alise: It only supports fixed-point samples.
04:38:04 <Sgeo> My dad said I can keep it!
04:38:25 <pikhq> It is 100% fixed-point, encoding and decoding.
04:38:31 <alise> pikhq: Alright then.
04:38:31 <Sgeo> It's like a ridiculously heavy netbook!
04:38:43 <alise> pikhq: As a side note, a wonderful FLAC bug:
04:38:49 <pikhq> Vorbis is the one with a special fixed-point decoder.
04:38:58 <Sgeo> I don't see a thingy for wifi
04:39:04 <alise> One of the default parameters for, tunekey or something, is blah(0,5) or something of the like.
04:39:20 <alise> pikhq: Of course, in a lot of European locales, what does this read as?
04:39:40 <alise> So a version of FLAC was released which, on *certain locales*, produced larger-than-necessary output.
04:39:46 <alise> Because of a decimal point.
04:39:51 <pikhq> That's ridiculous.
04:39:52 <alise> This is *hilarious*.
04:39:57 <alise> It was talked about on Hydrogen Audio.
04:40:08 <alise> Conclusion: LOCALES AAAAAAAARGH
04:40:09 <Sgeo> Parted Magic is taking a while to load
04:40:26 <Sgeo> (I'm using Parted Magic because it's the only modern distro I have a CD, not DVD, of)
04:40:52 <alise> pikhq: How's Wayland's X11 compatibility; do you know?
04:40:54 <Sgeo> I have multiple-year-old Ubuntus lying around somewhere, and I saw what is probably an ancient Knoppix on the dining room table
04:41:23 <alise> MicroXwin is binary compatible to the Xlib API. However it is neither client server nor network oriented. Graphics operations are implemented in the linux kernel via a kernel module. An open source Xlib library sends graphics commands to the kernel. There is no network overhead and no context switch from X client to X server. This makes our solution smaller and faster than traditional X Windows.
04:41:25 <alise> http://www.microxwin.com/
04:41:31 <alise> If only the kernel module wasn't proprietary.
04:41:34 <alise> That's fucking sweet.
04:42:03 <Sgeo> X11 evilness FIXED?
04:42:13 <alise> An improvement of 62% for asynchronous display or 384% for synchronous display of images of a 100x100 size.
04:42:14 <alise> There are only about 300 Kbytes of kernel memory in use by the kernel module. X.Org server, however, has a run-time memory usage of 12MB.
04:42:15 <alise> The smallest MicroXwin distribution can fit within 1 megabyte of disk space in contrast to the X.Org Server, which has a disk footprint of 1.8MB.
04:42:15 <pikhq> Still fucking sweet, though.
04:42:26 <alise> That isn't Wayland, that's a separate thing.
04:42:35 <alise> No network transparency? Who even uses that nowadays?
04:42:41 <alise> "The library needs to be updated each time Xlib is changed in order to maintain compatibility." ;; durr
04:42:56 <alise> "The additional kernel module x11.ko may crash the system if it is not well-designed or stable." ;; and you trust *graphics card developers*?
04:42:58 <Sgeo> I can't have this comp be on the charge at the same time as fiddling with the ancient laptop
04:43:02 <Sgeo> This, ancient laptop wins
04:43:09 <alise> "Performance is independent of scheduling latency caused by the scheduler, because the X server is no longer a process in the system." ;; this. is. win.
04:43:43 <alise> "MicroXwin can be easily ported to other OS besides Linux. Contact us with more information."
04:43:49 <alise> Therefore, surely the kernel module must be pretty simple?
04:43:52 <alise> Therefore CLEAN ROOM
04:43:56 <SgeoN1> Sgeo is dead. Long live SgeoN1
04:44:47 <alise> LibX11.so is 720K bytes.
04:44:48 <alise> LibXext.so is 7K bytes.
04:44:48 <alise> Kernel module x11.ko is 300K bytes.
04:44:50 <alise> HOW IS IT SO SMALL
04:45:08 <pikhq> Well, it's implementing an X compatible API, not actual X.
04:45:25 <alise> pikhq: Yes ... because I have seen applications directly connect to X11 with a socket ...
04:45:34 <alise> Can xcb be made to work with xlib as a backend?
04:45:51 <alise> pikhq: Then this wouldn't work for xcb-using applications?
04:46:02 <pikhq> alise: You could maybe port it, though.
04:46:12 <alise> pikhq: answer my question >.>
04:46:19 <alise> Like with yes or no :|
04:46:39 <alise> pikhq: Oh. That's such a shame, because XCB is widely-used.
04:46:51 <alise> ERROR: Sarcasm stack overflow
04:47:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
04:47:18 <pikhq> There's a *lot* of stuff in X11 that you can completely omit when you don't need to care about things like the network protocol.
04:47:19 <SgeoN1> Can K opposite be made to work in low-memory setttings, or is Puppy Linux better off?
04:47:54 <pikhq> Though X on localhost generally doesn't; all that communication is done via mmap.
04:47:58 <alise> Puppy Linux is better-off.
04:48:02 <alise> A pre-Lucid Puppy version.
04:48:16 <alise> pikhq: Nobody forwards X11 any more.
04:48:20 <SgeoN1> What's so bad about Puppy Lucid?
04:48:20 <alise> Which is the only reason it is like that.
04:48:24 <alise> SgeoN1: Not as snappy.
04:48:42 <pikhq> alise: Well, there's NX. That sees some use.
04:48:48 <SgeoN1> But eventually, the non Ubuntu based stuff will be epically obsolete
04:49:37 <alise> pikhq: NX is also a separate thing, isn't it?
04:49:54 <alise> And thus would work fine with microXwin.
04:50:07 <alise> SgeoN1: It isn't now, though. And YOUR LAPTOP is epically obsolete.
04:50:13 <pikhq> No, it takes the X line protocol and transforms it to a much more network-efficient format.
04:50:32 <SgeoN1> Parted Magic is taking forever :(
04:50:36 <pikhq> Which gets displayed directly on the other end.
04:51:53 <SgeoN1> When were the last laptops to proudly display "Made for Windows 98"?
04:52:11 <alise> pikhq: Then it doesn't matter what X11 library you use.
04:52:18 <alise> Okay, sure, so you need an xlib that does it the boring way.
04:52:21 <alise> But you can always install those too.
04:52:39 -!- zzo38 has joined.
04:52:43 <SgeoN1> Well, it also lists NT
04:52:44 <pikhq> alise: Yeah, you just need to make sure that it's got a mundane xlib going.
04:52:50 <alise> With dynamic linking, you could just have an NX wrapper program that starts NX if it isn't running, and then uses the normal xlib.
04:53:01 <SgeoN1> Ok, this is taking forever :(
04:53:23 <pikhq> Actually, you'd have the NX daemon set to start a new session with a linker path to use the normal xlib.
04:53:56 <SgeoN1> Maybe the installed Win98 still works
04:54:04 <alise> Windows 98 never works!
04:54:15 <alise> Stupid rotten IE-integrated piece of monopolistic crap! VIVA 95!
04:54:26 <alise> STUPID FUCKING NON-BRIAN-ENO STARTUP SOUND
04:54:36 <SgeoN1> There's no touchpad. Just nipple mouse
04:54:51 <alise> STUPID FUCKING has quick launch and 95 doesn't sniff sniff
04:55:14 <zzo38> I wrote a program to allow TeX to use UTF-8
04:55:31 <alise> zzo38: I don't think anyone's done that before.
04:55:31 <SgeoN1> http://i.imgur.com/IVWeu.jpg
04:55:50 <alise> zzo38: If you package it up for LaTeX you could get yourself some fame.
04:55:53 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/GhCQ http://sprunge.us/LHiW
04:56:31 <zzo38> alise: It is designed for use with Plain TeX. It is not designed for use with LaTeX. (Someone else can package it for LaTeX if they want to, though.)
04:57:15 <SgeoN1> I don't think I can connect to the Internet from here
04:57:20 <alise> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Windows_98_-_Critical_Update_Notification.png
04:57:24 <alise> 98, the beginning of UPGRADE FASCISM
04:57:24 <SgeoN1> It's a noninternet machine
04:57:32 <alise> SgeoN1: Plug in a USB wifi stick.
04:57:43 <SgeoN1> Ooh, those exist? Awesome!
04:57:52 <SgeoN1> Maybe I should buy one
04:58:20 <alise> "A memory overflow issue was resolved which in the older version of Windows 98 would crash most systems if left running for 49.7 days (equal to 2³² milliseconds)[14]."
04:58:27 <alise> SgeoN1: Won't work with 98, though.
04:58:27 <pikhq> alise: There's been several ways of getting UTF-8 on TeX.
04:58:28 <SgeoN1> There is only one USB port on this thing, so if I do that, I can't use a Linux that stores personal files on USB
04:58:38 <pikhq> alise: Fun fact: TeX is actually character set *agnostic*.
04:58:42 <alise> SgeoN1: Incorrect.
04:58:52 <alise> SgeoN1: They have space on them for drivers, for one, although perhaps not much.
04:59:03 <pikhq> alise: The ASCII handling is done in the font.
04:59:09 <alise> These drivers are Windows XP drivers and you don't need them, obviously. I think they're read-only, though... maybe not!
04:59:11 <alise> SgeoN1: Or: USB hub.
04:59:22 <alise> You can get little ones that might not require extra power if you're only using a drive and a wifi stick.
04:59:34 <alise> pikhq: But UTF-8 has multibyte characters, which is a Bitch.
04:59:43 <alise> Also, the commands are ASCII, so it's not really agnostic.
04:59:44 <pikhq> Yeah, but the pain has already been done.
04:59:44 <zzo38> SgeoN1: You can use a Linux loaded everything into RAM and then you can switch the USB and still use it
05:00:23 <zzo38> alise: It is possible in TeX to change all the category codes to make it act like EBCDIC if you wanted to! (Of course it has to start in ASCII mode, though)
05:00:33 <SgeoN1> Pooh, confidential information
05:00:59 <alise> <zzo38> SgeoN1: You can use a Linux loaded everything into RAM and then you can switch the USB and still use it
05:01:01 <alise> that'll disconnect you
05:01:28 <SgeoN1> Unless it only saves at shutdown
05:01:37 <alise> Fedora 14 alpha won't boot on either of my VMs ^_^
05:01:48 <SgeoN1> Puppy Linux sounds even more perfect for this
05:02:17 <zzo38> I think it could even be possible to change the category codes in TeX to make it accept commands in baudot encoding!
05:02:58 <zzo38> (Of course, then you still have to put each character in one byte though, so there are three unused bits in every byte)
05:03:24 <alise> SgeoN1: you know, it has a hard drive.
05:04:12 <zzo38> In that case, just store all files on the hard drive and don't use the USB to store the files (except when you need to transfer it)
05:05:22 <zzo38> Do you like the codes to make TeX supporting UTF-8 encoding? The codes are available at: http://sprunge.us/GhCQ
05:05:46 <alise> Since when does code have a plural?
05:05:55 <alise> I'm pretty sure it's a mass noun. Unless you can define what "one code" is...
05:06:54 <zzo38> Perhaps it is, you don't make a perfect exact definition of what "one code" is, except in some documents if you have a specific meaning in mind, you write it down.
05:07:20 <SgeoN1> I can get Bill Nye: Stop the Rock! to run on this!
05:07:23 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:08:05 <alise> zzo38: That's like saying "I say this glass has 'waters' in it because I could define a water to be .1 mililiters in a document."
05:08:12 <alise> Which is a bit ridiculous, as clearly water is a mass noun like code is.
05:08:20 <zzo38> Do you think this code is good?
05:09:08 <pikhq> alise: Keep in mind that zzo38 prides himself on having apparently non-native English while being a native speaker. :P
05:09:32 <alise> "I'm a native English speaker, but my mother tongue is German."
05:09:51 <SgeoN1> Ooh, this music is awesome
05:09:52 <zzo38> It is not complete, such as, I have not defined the commands to make it switch from one specific font to the other specific font, and stuff like that.
05:10:03 <SgeoN1> Any chance that this laptop uses SATA?
05:10:08 <zzo38> It also does not do right to left typing, yet.
05:10:22 <pikhq> SgeoN1: It's older than SATA by far.
05:10:44 <alise> zzo38: Still, it's good code.
05:11:08 <SgeoN1> Welcome to Computer Essentials, a hands-on introduction to your computee
05:11:28 <alise> computee: one who is computed.
05:11:37 <alise> I think you typoed.
05:11:40 <alise> That gets very few results on Google.
05:13:02 <SgeoN1> Tutorials for clueless users should not have script errors that they need to respond to
05:13:26 <zzo38> alise: OK. Is it useful to you? You can improve it if you want to. When writing programs in TeX, I figure out more things about TeX, and how to make certain kind of things in TeX, such as the ^\noexpand^ sequence.
05:13:45 <alise> I don't use TeX without LaTeX, so it's probably not terribly useful to me, unless it's compatible.
05:14:09 <zzo38> The command ^\noexpand^ is useful when writing to auxiliary files.
05:14:20 <SgeoN1> http://i.imgur.com/GCylT.jpg
05:15:06 <zzo38> alise: You can try to see if it is compatible, and/or make it compatible, if you want to.
05:18:07 <alise> pikhq: #esoteric needs to found a corporation that makes money in some unspecified way so that we can get an unreasonable amount of tech and put it in a place to mess around with.
05:18:26 <SgeoN1> I did miswrite the model
05:19:38 <alise> pikhq: Okay, now you get to figure out how we make the money. HAVE FUN
05:20:59 <SgeoN1> This tutorial thingy introduced the numeric keypad by comparing it with an adding machine
05:22:29 <Gregor> http://spamusers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13387 // look at the picture I posted of my cubicle, then the long post after that.
05:22:44 <SgeoN1> Now it's about to talk about the mouse. I'm on a laptop with a nipple mouse. What's the proper term?
05:24:31 -!- coppro has changed nick to copprp.
05:25:01 <alise> "I have something even MORE than coprophilia now, baby. ;)"
05:25:09 <alise> ^ How my brain decoded that
05:25:19 -!- copprp has changed nick to coppro.
05:25:21 <alise> Gregor: YOU DIDN'T USE THE Æ LIGATURE WHEN SPELLING DIÆRESIS
05:25:28 <Gregor> alise: I considered it :P
05:25:35 <alise> coppro: "...but you know what? Fuck that shit! Let's."
05:26:06 <alise> Gregor: hahaha wow @ that long post
05:26:08 <pikhq> Gregor: "Noöne appreciates diæreſis marks." would be epic win.
05:26:31 <alise> Gregor: jvcc is someone who is better at being me than me.
05:26:37 <coppro> at least with the conjoined ae
05:26:41 <alise> That's exactly the kind of stuff I wish I was good at doing :P
05:26:59 <alise> (Long, random, depressing, utterly tangential buildings on a hopelessly minor point.)
05:28:15 <alise> Gregor: Your dropdown menus overlap the menu title slightly.
05:28:24 <SgeoN1> Oooooh, found some MIDIs
05:29:08 <SgeoN1> There appears to be no MIDI thingy...
05:29:17 <alise> Gregor: Your music page.
05:29:43 <Gregor> alise: Oh; yes, they do, so?
05:30:05 <Gregor> alise: Your mom is a flaw.
05:30:25 <alise> Also, I have a Lonely Dino submission whose only flaw is featuring the other two pictured characters.
05:30:29 <alise> Also they both talk.
05:31:18 <zzo38> TeX normally ignores the characters 128 to 255, so that means the UTF-8 BOM will be ignored, and the file will work properly.
05:31:24 <alise> http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=2,3&comics=1099,1758&strip
05:31:41 <alise> zzo38: the BOM is crappy and nobody uses it
05:31:45 <alise> apart from windows
05:32:00 <zzo38> alise: It works without the BOM, too.
05:32:05 <alise> it's also meaningless in utf-8 :P
05:33:20 <zzo38> It is just that Windows adds it in, so that means it is not necessary to remove it before sending the file to TeX. The problem is if a UTF-8 file includes another UTF-8 file, because my code utfeight.tex doesn't check for the BOM.
05:35:30 <pikhq> What sort of moron decides to stick it in UTF-8?
05:35:50 <Gregor> UTF-8 BOM is so much lunacy.
05:35:54 <Gregor> Microsoft kind of lunacy.
05:36:07 <SgeoN1> Ok, done playing for now. Will explore more tomorrow.
05:36:23 <coppro> the BOM isn't even allowed in UTF-8 IIRC
05:36:37 <SgeoN1> Dear maximized windows, please don't cover the taskbar
05:37:43 <pikhq> coppro: It's allowed but strongly discouraged.
05:40:25 <SgeoN1> Ooh, what a beautiful way, to break my heart
05:42:26 <zzo38> One thing about TeX: When reading the input, if two identical characters with category code seven are read, it will either treat the next two characters as a lowercase hex number, or as a character that 64 will be subtracted from.
05:43:10 <SgeoN1> Word 97 is really fast
05:43:47 <zzo38> So, if ^ is category code seven, and it reads ^^7b then it will be exactly the same as typing { in the file. So, this is valid: \def\abc^^7bxyz}
05:44:55 <zzo38> Example: \write0{^\noexpand^7d}
05:45:16 <SgeoN1> Alise, some song that came with the computer
05:45:31 <alise> <zzo38> One thing about TeX: When reading the input, if two identical characters with category code seven are read, it will either treat the next two characters as a lowercase hex number, or as a character that 64 will be subtracted from.
05:45:41 <alise> There are other messages to respond to.
05:45:56 <alise> Also, I suspected your line was some random song quote since you're prone to them. I had already googled it.
05:46:11 <zzo38> alise: Are you confused?
05:46:27 <alise> By your line, yes.
05:46:36 <alise> Is it basically trigraphs?
05:47:05 <zzo38> alise: Yes, it is like trigraphs.
05:49:15 <zzo38> The utfeight.tex uses ^\noexpand^ a lot
05:50:08 <zzo38> (That is, it creates trigraphs which are then read in later by TeX)
05:50:49 <zzo38> They are better than the C trigraphs.
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05:53:41 <zzo38> // Check if trigraphs are enabled ??/
05:53:49 <zzo38> #define TRIGRAPHS_ARE_ENABLED
05:54:09 <pikhq> zzo38: That's actually a pretty clever piece of work.
05:56:18 <zzo38> pikhq: What are you refering to? The last one? The one before that? The one before before that?
05:56:29 <SgeoN1> .swf file that I tried on the ancient laptop crashed
05:56:39 <SgeoN1> Flash didn't crash even once
05:56:46 <SgeoN1> Compare that to Ubunti
05:58:16 <SgeoN1> Yep. Win98, less than 200mb ram
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05:59:25 <pikhq> zzo38: The C preprocessor check there.
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06:01:11 <SgeoN1> Of course, if I don't run something, how can it crash
06:01:25 <coppro> SgeoN1: your problem there is that Adobe hates Linux
06:01:41 <coppro> if Adobe hated Windows instead, then it would crash a ton on Windows
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06:04:11 <zzo38> Unlike C trigraphs, the TeX trigraphs are actually much more useful.
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06:15:36 <pikhq> Ah, right, they hire a *single guy* to do the Flash port.
06:52:11 <zzo38> Do you want to win a big spider by playing solitaire cards? The guy at FreeGeek thinks it is a good idea.
06:55:44 <zzo38> I do. Perhaps then people will stop bothering me when I am working in my room (they won't fit, so therefore, they can't bother me)
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07:49:52 <SgeoN1> I see the most amazing sight beforehand my eyes, and my cameraphone can't capture it
07:51:52 <oerjan> SgeoN1, the Fermat of photography
07:56:16 <oerjan> so (1) is there something physically there (2) if so, is it moving too fast
07:57:04 <oerjan> hm i guess even (1) is ambiguous
07:57:42 <oerjan> oh (3) have you mislaid your cameraphone? ;D
07:58:36 <oerjan> and (4) have you ingested something you shouldn't
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08:01:44 <SgeoN1> Wow, none of my responses got through
08:01:58 <SgeoN1> And the flash makes it not look as spectacular
08:02:02 <SgeoN1> Many drops of water on the pool cover reflecting the moonlight
08:02:52 <SgeoN1> As though it were a nightsky with many, many more stars
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08:15:14 <zzo38> I have tried making scales with G12TET, meaning it is still twelve tone equal temperament, with the same black keys and white keys, the same piano keys, but that the base is not necessarily 2. I have tried 5/2 and 7/3.
08:16:20 <Sgeo> zzo38's NIH extends to music?
08:16:27 <Sgeo> Sorry, just being silly
08:16:48 <zzo38> Sgeo: What does NIH means?
08:17:26 <zzo38> Which of these scales do you prefer?
08:18:33 <Sgeo> I prefer sleeping when I need to sleep
08:20:55 <zzo38> Please sleep for exactly 29 and a half hours tonight.
08:22:20 <oerjan> zzo38: actually Not Invented Here
08:25:01 <zzo38> Try the G12TET major scale with base 5/2, base 7/3, and base of natural logarithms. Try other bases, too. You do not have to build a new piano keyboard to play G12TET.
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08:33:47 <zzo38> I tried base 5/2, base 7/3, base 11/5, base 13/7 ..........
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08:57:08 <Phantom_Hoover> ALPACA is a CA specifier, not anything more general, yes?
08:58:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Since I think it should be compilable to Golly's RuleTable format.
09:07:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Right, so it should be equivalent with RuleTable, excluding any complex semantics I haven't noticed.
09:11:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Ooh, and the RuleTree format can already be compiled into from other languages.
09:18:28 <Vorpal> <alise> Vorpal: give your CPU 1024 general-purpose 64-bit registers <alise> because why not <-- well... register file size
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09:39:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Specifying it in RuleTable with no symmetries set is too painful. I'll try Python later on.
10:05:18 <Phantom_Hoover> No, it's only that in the sense that it includes at least 2 other CAs inside it.
10:08:34 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, how does that make it like mathematica?
10:09:52 <Vorpal> Quadrescence, why not? According to one S. Wolfram it is the best software in the world, including any future ones (except future versions of mathematica)! ;)
10:10:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Quadrescence, but Mathematica is the only practical functional programming language!
10:10:38 <Quadrescence> Vorpal: don't make the artery in my forehead pop
10:10:52 <Vorpal> Quadrescence, I was obviously joking :P
10:11:07 <Quadrescence> i know but Phantom_Hoover is probably like OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH COOOOOOOOL
10:11:37 <Quadrescence> and then Phantom_Hoover will buy 10 copies then distribute them
10:12:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Quadrescence, whyever not? It's the only usable way of doing concurrent programming
10:12:27 <Quadrescence> Phantom_Hoover: don't make the artery in my forehead pop!!
10:13:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Quadrescence, but it has the world's largest web of mathematical capabilities and algorithms!
10:14:09 <Phantom_Hoover> And immediate integrated access to carefully curated data in diverse areas!
10:14:36 <Vorpal> fun, quoting directly from the manual
10:14:55 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, don't forget the section on functional programming, it is the most absurd one
10:14:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, and don't forget the unique customisability and connectivity powered by symbolic programming!
10:15:11 <Vorpal> Quadrescence, he is obviously joking :P
10:15:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Quadrescence, what about the industrial-strength string manipulation!
10:15:31 <Vorpal> Quadrescence, perhaps, please use a pastebin
10:16:09 <Phantom_Hoover> With such groundbreaking functions as StringJoin, StringLength and StringSplit!
10:16:28 <Quadrescence> http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=69 <--- mathematica
10:16:59 <Vorpal> Quadrescence, it should be obvious to you that he is being sarcastic.
10:17:15 <Quadrescence> MY BLOOD STILL BOILS because a lot of ppl think those things are true
10:18:29 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, maxima works quite well for a lot of stuff
10:18:39 <Vorpal> and has a less annoying syntax
10:18:56 <Vorpal> especially with wxmaxima it is nice to use
10:19:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, octave is more like mathlab iirc?
10:19:29 <Vorpal> which is iirc more numerical or something like that
10:19:30 <Phantom_Hoover> It's not actually a CAS; it doesn't do symbolic manipulation AFAIK.
10:19:50 <Phantom_Hoover> "Long viewed as an important theoretical idea, functional programming finally became truly convenient and practical with the introduction of Mathematica's symbolic language. Treating expressions like f[x] as both symbolic data and the application of a function f provides a uniquely powerful way to integrate structure and function\[LongDash]and an efficient, elegant representation of many common computations.
10:20:43 <Phantom_Hoover> With such THRILLING DEVELOPMENTS as Map, Apply, MapIndexed, Nest and Fold.
10:21:35 <Phantom_Hoover> "The symbolic language paradigm of Mathematica takes the concept of variables and functions to a new level."
10:22:05 <Quadrescence> Phantom_Hoover: Although having a terrible interface, Axiom is probably the most powerful CAS
10:22:17 <Phantom_Hoover> In Mathematica a variable can not only stand for a value, but can also be used purely symbolically.
10:22:58 <Phantom_Hoover> They have a little old man making sure noöne goes behind the barriers.
10:23:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Dear god, how can Mathematica have such a huge ego in its documentation?
10:24:10 <Phantom_Hoover> *Every section* has some ridiculously grandiose claim as to how it adds things much better than anyone else's product.
10:24:53 <Phantom_Hoover> And then there's the price, which is obviously all going towards the massive cost of keeping such a huge ego up.
10:25:14 <Phantom_Hoover> "Mathematica provides broad and deep built-in support for both programmatic and interactive modern industrial-strength image processing\[LongDash]fully integrated with Mathematica's powerful mathematical and algorithmic capabilities. Mathematica's unique symbolic architecture and notebook paradigm allows images in visual form to be included and manipulated directly both interactively and in programs."
10:25:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Translation: you can dump images in the middle of programs and make it look like some kind of weird joke.
10:26:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Mathematica's markup is far superior to lesser Unicode!
10:26:51 <Phantom_Hoover> "Mathematica has a highly flexible system for handling dates and times in almost any format, automatically converting between formats, and when necessary parsing strings representing dates. " FFS
10:27:05 <Quadrescence> "Developed at Wolfram Research over nearly twenty years, Mathematica has by far the world's most sophisticated and convenient mathematical typesetting technology. Generalizing the concept of a computer language to allow 2D input, Mathematica allows both interactive and programmatic entry of arbitrarily complex typeset expressions, with publication-quality layout continuously maintained in real time."
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10:28:35 <Phantom_Hoover> "Mathematica routinely handles huge arrays of numeric, symbolic, textual or any other data, with any dimension or structure. Arrays are fully integrated into Mathematica's powerful core symbolic language, making possible extremely high-level array operations that are both elegant and efficient. "
10:29:01 <Phantom_Hoover> "Using a host of original algorithms developed at Wolfram Research, Mathematica provides powerful functions that automate the process of creating cognitively and aesthetically compelling representations of structured and unstructured data\[LongDash]not only for points, lines and surfaces, but also for graphs and networks."
10:29:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Evidently, they have someone employed for the sole purpose of writing their documentation in the most over-the-top way possible.
10:29:52 <Quadrescence> [aka wolfram since he doesn't do anything else]
10:42:50 <Phantom_Hoover> "Mathematica has the most extensive collection of mathematical functions ever assembled. Often relying on original results and algorithms developed at Wolfram Research over the past two decades, each function supports a full range of symbolic operations, as well as efficient numerical evaluation to arbitrary precision, for all complex values of parameters. "
10:44:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Mathematica provides a uniquely integrated and automated environment for parallel computing. With zero configuration, full interactivity and seamless local and network operation, the symbolic character of the Mathematica language allows immediate support of a variety of existing and new parallel programming paradigms and data-sharing models.
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10:44:53 <olsner> hmm, someone said something to me past the scrollback
10:46:02 <olsner> oh, it was just Vorpal amusing himself with the word "CD-skva"
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11:35:09 <fizzie> Oh, nothing; just some free-flow associating from "CD-skva".
11:35:11 <Vorpal> oh btw, why does RAM has to be such a pain when it comes to getting the right type? I mean, for harddrives it is basically SATA or PATA. If you have the right type it will work, maybe not at optimal speed, but it will work.
11:35:36 <Vorpal> for RAM you seem to need to match speed, the number after DDR and so on
11:37:59 <fizzie> The number after DDR, sure, but I don't know about matching speed; I haven't had any problems using sticks at less-than-rated speeds.
11:38:14 <Vorpal> fizzie, also the connector type
11:38:24 <Vorpal> laptop sized vs. desktop sized
11:38:47 <fizzie> Yes, well, that should be pretty obvious.
11:38:47 <Vorpal> a laptop harddrive will work in a desktop, just you have to find some way to mount it
11:38:52 <Vorpal> the connectors are the same
11:39:35 <fizzie> They use a different connector in 2.5" IDE drives than desktop-sized ones; one that has power in it.
11:39:53 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm okay, for sata it looks the same though?
11:40:04 <fizzie> SATA fortunately uses the same.
11:40:12 <fizzie> But it's smaller anyway.
11:40:59 <fizzie> They do have a mini-SATA too, but I've never seen one live anywhere.
11:41:38 <Vorpal> fizzie, CPUs are even worse, due to the proliferation of different sockets.
11:42:51 <fizzie> 1.8" SSD drives widely use something called micro-SATA, it seems.
11:43:33 <fizzie> Anyway, for HDs it's usually easy to find adapters, as long as you're installing the disk into a bigger slot than it needs.
11:43:53 <fizzie> The next size down from 2.5".
11:44:05 <Vorpal> fizzie, what the fuck do you find that in=
11:44:47 <fizzie> Small netbooks, maybe? I don't know, but they sell those anyway.
11:45:27 <fizzie> (There have been 1.8" IDE drives for quite a while, too.)
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11:50:19 <fizzie> There's a (DDR) SO-DIMM to DIMM adapter, but it seems to be designed for testing SO-DIMMs with a memory chip tester, not for actual use in a computer: http://www.memorytesters.com/ramcheck/rc200conv.htm
11:50:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, they should make 1 TB drives the size of compact flash cards.
11:51:04 <Vorpal> hm... now to chose the name of the laptop
11:51:39 <Vorpal> I have phoenix and dragon currently. Need something along the same theme. And not kraken (since that means something else in Swedish)
11:51:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, any suggestions?
11:52:56 <fizzie> Vorpal: The CF spec only goes up to 128 GB (28-bit LBA addressing), so...
11:53:18 <fizzie> Pegasus sounds appropriate for a laptop.
11:54:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm, that would fit with dragon also being a laptop, but then phoenix is an old dell tower (one of those with strange PSU connector)
11:56:19 <fizzie> NetHack's monster db is a good source for names; mooz used to pick names from there. (He had at least zruty, tengu and couatl.)
11:56:52 <Vorpal> fizzie, that lacks phoenix though
11:57:18 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm woodchuck. But well I went for pegasus already
12:00:05 <fizzie> grep -B 5 M1_FLY monst.c | grep 'MON(' | cut -c 10- | sed -e 's/".*//' => http://p.zem.fi/3n9j -- everything that flies.
12:00:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, my theme was not "flies" but "impressive/awesome mythological creates"
12:00:58 <Vorpal> fizzie, that everything so far flies is just pure coincidence
12:01:01 <Vorpal> fizzie, that was a joke :P
12:02:51 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm does lucid use grub2 or grub1?
12:04:07 <fizzie> Not completely sure though.
12:04:30 <Vorpal> (I tried gobolinux, couldn't get it working on usb stick, and no cd-r around)
12:06:01 <fizzie> Maverick's due out in 15 days.
12:06:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, going for LTS :P
12:06:47 <fizzie> It's probably going to be buggy at lauch anyway.
12:07:42 <fizzie> Especially since they want it out on 10/10/10 no matter what shape it's in. :p
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13:16:26 <fizzie> Vorpal: Because it's "the perfect ten".
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13:33:32 <fizzie> Well, they have that "time-based releases" thing anyway, so it's just a matter of scheduling it to that particular day.
13:34:12 <fizzie> It's also a HHGTTG reference, since 0b101010 == 42.
13:34:31 <fizzie> Cf. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2010-May/003987.html
13:36:18 <fizzie> Also, Natty Narwhal will focus on making Ubuntu look prettier. :p
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13:36:33 <fizzie> (I'm not sure what Maverick focuses on, except that there's some netbookery going on.)
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13:42:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Does anyone know if Python has a builtin to compute the number of instances of x in an array?
13:43:08 <fizzie> There's a count() method.
13:43:19 <fizzie> >>> [1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4].count(2)
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13:45:00 <fizzie> Or was it a HackEgo thing?
13:45:33 <fizzie> I guess it wouldn't be a HackEgo thing.
13:46:00 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
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13:46:09 <fizzie> Oh, so there's just Perl. I guess python's not esoteric enough.
13:46:30 <Phantom_Hoover> What? Have you seen what you can do with some lambdas and no remorse?
13:46:42 <fizzie> Anyway, I was trying to say that you could also do a list comprehension and len, as in len([x for x in [1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4] if x == 2])
13:47:18 <alise> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbJ-y6BWfUc this is awesome
13:47:19 <fizzie> Or sum(1 if x == 2 else 0 for x in [1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4]) to avoid an intermediate list.
13:49:10 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, compiling ALPACA into one of Golly's formats: worthwhile?
13:50:04 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I'm sure you could add it as a new format.
13:51:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Coding the ALPACA algorithm into Golly by myself? In C++?
13:54:32 <fizzie> Different classifiers, different results: http://zem.fi/~fis/esoconfnf.png → http://zem.fi/~fis/confsvmc.png except that the horrible octave-nnet took an hour to test the first one, whereas the latter happened in about seven seconds of scipy/numpy/mlpy.svm/matplotlib.
13:55:56 <alise> fizzie: are you merging ihope with Warrigal, uorygl, kerlo, ...? :P
14:03:29 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: octave-nnet is octave-forge's neural networking thingie; it's rather horrible.
14:05:33 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: You may not have talked enough; 20000 comments is a minimum for that particular list. You seem to have 13851 at the moment.
14:05:50 <fizzie> Or a bit more, I haven't ran updatedb in a while.
14:06:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
14:06:36 <fizzie> Also, leaving like that in the middle of my comments isn't winning you any points!
14:13:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
14:18:35 <fizzie> A collection of add-on stuff for Octave.
14:18:44 <fizzie> I think they picked the name to resemble sourceforge.
14:24:21 <alise> [[A multidimensional language, where the program is a set of points in Rn and a function which maps these points onto Rm; this process then repeats with the new program and a new function on Rm. Maybe it could be called something like Projection or Linear Map (although these may be too normal/restrictive, in which case Morphism?).]]
14:24:24 <alise> Good luck computing that!
14:24:35 <alise> Rx being R^x ther.
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14:34:04 <FireFly> http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/symlinks/index.php ← neat
14:34:36 <alise> hee, i forgot about that thing
14:38:39 <alise> woot, apparently the Neverhood works perfectly in WINE
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15:16:27 <alise> I hope I have a 75 MHz Pentium processor, 8 megs of RAM -- or preferably 16, 1 meg of video ram, an SVGA monitor, a quad speed CD-ROM, 8-bit sound card and speakers or preferably 16-bit, and 10 megs of hard disk to store it.
15:22:44 <alise> *sniff* Looks like I'll have to contact my retailer for an upgrade.
15:24:38 <alise> Now why doesn't Ubuntu mount this ISO properly?
15:25:00 <alise> Well, "mount", it's actually trying to use gvfs to view it as a virtually "mounted" acrhive.
15:25:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:25:36 -!- sebbu has joined.
15:26:29 <pikhq> Awesome. PS3 jailbreak ported to Rockbox.
15:28:49 <pikhq> And... The PS3 controller?
15:30:13 <fizzie> Noticed that thing in the Maemo repositories a while ago.
15:30:43 <fizzie> (By "that thing" I mean the jailbreak itself, not those two ports, of course.)
15:33:02 <alise> <pikhq> Awesome. PS3 jailbreak ported to Rockbox.
15:34:14 <alise> pikhq: Why don't ordinary users have mounting powers on Linux? At least loopback mounting.
15:36:34 <pikhq> Could hypothetically mount a filesystem that's got /dev/kmem with them having access.
15:36:46 <alise> pikhq: From a loopback file?
15:37:21 <pikhq> Any filesystem could have the required inode.
15:37:31 <alise> pikhq: okay, new question
15:37:36 <alise> why is mounting so badly designed?
15:37:42 <pikhq> Because hell if I know.
15:38:13 <alise> ------------------------------------
15:38:17 <alise> This program requires Windows 95 to run.
15:38:21 <alise> ------------------------------------
15:38:23 <alise> and it doesn't install :)
15:38:27 <alise> time to tell wine to be windows 95
15:38:51 <alise> groan, i'm going to have to NoCD hack an ISO
15:40:26 <alise> checking for directx 3.0!
15:40:34 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined.
15:40:38 <alise> now it wants to restart windows
15:40:58 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
15:41:51 <alise> pikhq: 640x400, resolution of kings!
15:43:31 <fizzie> Yeah, square pixels are so... square, after all.
15:43:48 <alise> Ookayyy, that didn't work so well.
15:55:23 <alise> Sound in WINE doesn't appear to work at all.
16:04:33 <pikhq> MusicBrainz Picard is so great for fixing dumb tags.
16:08:20 <alise> Okay, the Neverhood now works, but without sound. I believe this to be because WINE is failing at sound altogether.
16:08:43 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:09:38 <oerjan> 00:57:08 <Phantom_Hoover> ALPACA is a CA specifier, not anything more general, yes?
16:09:41 <oerjan> 00:58:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Since I think it should be compilable to Golly's RuleTable format.
16:10:54 <pikhq> Beats manually tagging 33 gigs of music.
16:11:41 <oerjan> i did at one time ponder a language "ALPA" in which ALPACA would be a DSL simply by loading a library
16:14:53 <oerjan> some features i vaguely recall: if a word identifier didn't exist, it would look it up as a sequence of single letter identifiers (allowing nw and se e.g. to just be a sequence of them)
16:16:13 <oerjan> and there would be macro definitions which could take arguments that could be either words, sequences of words, or bracketed sequences of stuff, iirc, so that ALPACA's commands could be defined simply as macros or so
16:17:52 <oerjan> well "words" could also be bracketed things, i think. oh it may not have been bracketed but line separated for the third argument form
16:18:18 * oerjan is currently vague on ALPACA as well
16:22:30 <oerjan> there was also some automatic conversion between objects, methods and functions with basic ALPACA command ending up interpreted as chains of methods
16:26:33 <alise> gravity is melting
16:27:00 <oerjan> it seemed to be approaching some kind of (possibly) purely functional object-oriented language
16:28:12 <oerjan> alise: NEWS FLASH! GLOBAL WARMING WILL CAUSE US ALL TO FALL OFF EARTH
16:30:34 <oerjan> incidentally this would iirc make ALPA(CA) handle neighborhoods larger than moore by just using designations such as nnw (being automatically split into a chain of n n w)
16:32:10 <fizzie> oerjan: I must confess I don't quite see the link between global warming and ALPACA.
16:32:30 <oerjan> fizzie: um you'll have to ask alise about that interlude
16:33:09 <oerjan> that was merely my OBVIOUS INTERPRETATION of his statement
16:34:05 <oerjan> of course climate simulations are _obviously_ just giant CAs, anyway
16:35:05 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> Aaaaargh, ALPACA supports nondeterminism.
16:35:14 <oerjan> hm that might mess with the pure functionality
16:42:27 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/~fis/eso2009.avi -- the channel in 2009. (It's just 333 plots concatenated together, so changes in colors, legend layout, y-axis scaling and such make it a flickery sight; still.)
16:45:16 <alise> fizzie: now do it for all previous years, and make it go much faster
16:45:22 <alise> a fiery spectacle of delight
16:45:25 <alise> fizzie: also, for the galaxies
16:45:26 <alise> watch the cosmos unfold
16:54:07 <alise> fizzie: the big bang of the channel would be fun to watch, but i don't think anyone has logs of the first days
16:54:19 <alise> except maybe andreou or lament :P
16:56:35 <Gregor> I love how I'm competing for the #5 spot with EgoBot :P
16:56:53 <Gregor> And then in September alise just goes "fuck sleeping"
16:57:56 <alise> Wow, Wine takes like five years to build.
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16:59:49 <alise> Dear god, Apple have gone even further in their quest codenamed "Make iTunes As Little Like What Actual Mac OS X Applications Actually Look Like As Possible, Even On OS X".
17:00:12 <alise> Specifically, the close/hide/maximise buttons are now *placed vertically*.
17:00:16 <alise> Why? Because fuck you, this is iTunes!
17:07:57 <Gregor> That's ... very unapple.
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17:10:27 <Sgeo> Sine YouTube comment: "Not 100% sold on the show, but I am 100% sold on the music."
17:11:37 <alise> Gregor: No, fucking up iTunes in this way is very Apple.
17:11:51 <alise> They have been doing it since iTunes first existed -- the brushed metal interface, not present in Mac OS 9.
17:11:56 <alise> Or was it 8 or 8.5 it came out for? I forget.
17:19:18 <alise> i wonder why old thinkpads are so awesome
17:19:46 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDYse9RE0QU
17:20:29 <alise> what's that got to do with sine?
17:20:39 <alise> agreed with the comment about the dig there
17:20:51 <alise> actually the dig needs made into a movie, badly
17:20:59 <alise> well, it was meant to be, spielberg :P
17:21:25 <Sgeo> It should have been "Some"
17:23:58 * Sgeo sets up timestamps
17:24:03 <oerjan> and here i tried googling Sine to see if it was some kind of famous band or something
17:24:25 <alise> oerjan: you could say you went off on a bit of a tangent
17:24:30 * alise braces for swatting
17:24:42 <Sgeo> Ah, nice, simple, 12-hour time
17:24:52 <alise> Sgeo: you are joking yes
17:25:01 <oerjan> i even had to set google to give english results only because "sine" is a very common norwegian pronoun (the plural form of that reflexive possessive i mentioned the other day)
17:25:24 <alise> getting swatted for no reason like that
17:25:35 <Sgeo> alise, I'm very used to 12-hour time
17:25:48 <alise> i will never fathom the stupidity that is america
17:26:32 <oerjan> i saw this nice oscar wilde quote in the newspaper today, let me google the english original
17:26:54 <alise> Wine is still compiling; how?!
17:27:05 <oerjan> "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."
17:29:25 <alise> "HUGLAGHALGHALGHAL" --Oscar Wilde
17:29:30 <oerjan> 12 hours should be enough for everyone
17:29:49 <oerjan> alise: i have a hunch that's an uncyclopedia claimed quote
17:30:12 <alise> HUGLAGHALGHALGHAL, interj.
17:30:12 <alise> An all-purpose sound, denoting the act of performing oral sex, the act of receiving oral sex, taking drugs, writing your Congressman, misdialing your party and getting that annoying series of tones, or sitting perfectly still and making no noise whatsoever.
17:30:13 <alise> http://www.jerkcity.com/glossary.html
17:30:30 <alise> although, admittedly, I'm pretty sure it's only ever been used to denote the first...
17:30:46 <alise> either that or Oscar Wilde wrote to his Congressman at one point, which is entirely possible
17:30:52 <fizzie> <alise> fizzie: /~fis/ must be so huge. <-- "ls | wc -l" 548, "du -hs" 4.3G
17:31:01 <oerjan> alise: i found that too, then added "wilde" and confirmed my hunch
17:31:10 <alise> but you've linked to like 549 things in there!
17:31:26 <alise> oerjan: oh, someone actually did make that fakequote
17:31:38 <fizzie> alise: It's been wiped out every now and then, though.
17:31:56 <fizzie> Based on timestamps, though, this current has been it since 2007-10-22.
17:32:51 <oerjan> alise: given that oscar wilde was irish, i find it unlikely he wrote his congressman
17:33:04 <alise> YOU DON'T KNOW THAT
17:33:15 <alise> fizzie: we totally need the output of ls to verify.
17:33:25 <alise> i have a feeling you're FABRICATING
17:33:27 <fizzie> But, but, but! Private stuff!
17:33:28 <oerjan> especially given his attitude to america. although maybe that was what gave him his attitude.
17:33:28 -!- nooga has joined.
17:33:36 <alise> fizzie: "All that private stuff, that I put on my public HTTP server."
17:34:46 <alise> make[1]: *** [depend] Error 1
17:34:48 <alise> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
17:36:32 <olsner> alise: haha, you failed
17:36:49 <alise> olsner: building wine is a *bitch!*
17:40:26 <oerjan> fish is an important part of a complete breakfast
17:40:57 <fizzie> alise: Here you go: http://zem.fi/~fis/eso2004-2009.avi -- more years, more speed.
17:41:44 <alise> fizzie: Way insufficient speed.
17:41:55 <alise> I want the whole channel to go by in 15 seconds or less!
17:42:07 <alise> fizzie: you didn't merge zuff into alise
17:42:21 <fizzie> My mergings are insufficient, that's true.
17:42:42 <nooga> oerjan: maybe in norway
17:42:43 <olsner> lol, the wine people don't seem to have found -fshort-wchar
17:42:45 <alise> fizzie: now do it again but with the wonderful galaxy cosmoses :P
17:42:57 <alise> Big Bang to present day
17:43:47 <Gregor> olsner: That's weird since the man page specifies that it's FOR wine :P
17:44:34 * oerjan was actually alluding to http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdjacentToThisCompleteBreakfast
17:44:41 <olsner> heh, but their coding conventions explicitly say that you have to create an array of WCHAR for every string :)
17:45:30 <alise> Wine build complete.
17:47:44 <nooga> i just found an interesting photo of my flatmate ;f
17:48:28 <Gregor> nooga: Before ... the operation?
17:48:45 <oerjan> before the tragic incident
17:48:55 <oerjan> or perhaps, just after
17:49:33 <nooga> it's like she's wearing wermacht's uniform and sits on a retro bike
17:49:35 <alise> Building Debian package... FAILED!
17:49:55 <alise> Gregor: "The operation... that turned me from a duck... into a human."
17:50:01 <alise> dpkg-deb - error: (upstream) version (`git') doesn't contain any digits
17:50:34 <alise> It's now git-1. :P
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17:56:37 <alise> lol by upgrading wine i broke it
17:58:25 <alise> http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firebird/nightly/2003/07/2003-07-22-21-1.5a/MozillaFirebird-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz
17:58:29 <alise> Old browser ... is old.
17:59:39 <alise> ./MozillaFirebird-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libgtk-1.2.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
17:59:49 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:59:49 <alise> There's a more recent build using gtk2 and xft though. :^)
18:00:11 <oerjan> grmble the sprocket server is much more unstable than hagbart was :(
18:02:09 <alise> and now it inexplicably works perfectly
18:02:50 <alise> Not sure how to scale the 640x400 to something more my-screen-sized, though.
18:02:57 <alise> Anyone any good at using Wine? :P
18:03:41 <fizzie> I don't think it has any screen scalers built-in.
18:04:24 <alise> Can you use one with it, though?
18:04:49 <alise> Also, is there anything in Wine that can relieve the terror caused by a game's sky being designed to be pitch black, even though the rest of it is cheerful claymation?
18:04:50 <Vorpal> alise, hm I just found out that that old dell has IR built in.
18:05:04 <alise> It is... disturbing.
18:05:15 <alise> Please feed my pet flytrap. He eats ring-food.
18:05:29 <alise> Funnier with the blank lines in-between. :P
18:05:37 <Vorpal> alise, what game is this?
18:05:42 <alise> Vorpal: The Neverhood.
18:05:46 <nooga> neverhood was awesome
18:05:53 <alise> A wonderful clay stop-motion point-and-click adventure game.
18:06:21 <alise> Vorpal: even the menus are clay :)
18:07:13 <alise> Of the clay menus?
18:07:56 <alise> Vorpal: http://imgur.com/fIEOe.png
18:09:01 <fizzie> There's that old zxoom tool that can scale any defined part of the X screen, but it might not exactly be fast. Maybe some of the compositing video managers could "natively" scale a window, though? It shouldn't be a very difficult task.
18:09:28 <alise> I also want it fullscreened and with pillarboxes to the left and right. :P
18:11:11 <fizzie> It's 16:10 in theory, though I guess the game might actually be designed for non-square pixels so that the screen's aspect ratio is the usual 4:3?
18:11:18 <Vorpal> alise, hm battery in that dell is sucky, only charges to about 75%
18:11:20 <fizzie> That's what I recall 640x400 modes usually being.
18:11:23 <alise> Now the audio is broken!
18:11:28 <alise> fizzie: Perhaps. It looks fine windowed in a squrae-pixel display.
18:11:39 <alise> This is circa 1996, Windows game.
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18:12:42 <Vorpal> very uneven charging too
18:12:51 <alise> Note to past self: Just make a 95 VM to play this already.
18:13:26 <fizzie> Yes, but all CRT monitors tend to be 4:3, and if you change the resolution to 640x400, what you usually end up is a fullscreen view with unsquare pixels, not something letterboxed.
18:13:42 <fizzie> Though if it's supposed to be run in a window, then not.
18:13:44 <alise> fizzie: But it looks fine in square-pixel form.
18:13:47 <alise> It isn't supposed to be run like that.
18:13:51 <alise> But it looks perfectly decent.
18:14:43 <fizzie> Well, anyway; another way to scale it would be x11vnc; you could export the part of the desktop that has the game, then use x11vnc's "server"-side scaling and any VNC client. Probably equally silly as xzoom.
18:14:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
18:15:10 <Sgeo> I put it down somewhere
18:15:13 <Sgeo> I take the dog out
18:15:23 <Sgeo> I have not the foggiest idea where my stuff is
18:16:01 <olsner> oh here we are being all funny and stuff
18:16:28 <olsner> Sgeo did it better anyway, each line was a sentence
18:16:38 <olsner> and they all started with "I "
18:17:17 <Sgeo> I bought chocolates, which are in the bag
18:17:50 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: *Weare to tally hilarious.
18:19:01 <fizzie> Heh, someone's actually done the scaling with Xephyr + x11vnc + vncviewer: http://tfischernet.wordpress.com/2009/02/14/enlarge-fullscreen-programs-in-wine/
18:19:15 <fizzie> One of the comments mention a compiz plugin for screen-zoomery, though. That sort of thing sounds a lot more sensible.
18:19:31 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: see my comments on generalizing ALPACA in the logs
18:20:02 <alise> Sgeo is trying to poison his dog
18:21:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Actually, since ALPACA supports nondeterminism, it doesn't specify CAs.
18:30:03 <fizzie> alise: Tested this in stock Gnome-Ubuntu: apparently all you need to do is to make sure compiz is on (System/Preferences/Appearance/Visual Effects > None) and put some keys into System/Preferences/Keyboard Shortcuts/Desktop/Zoom {In,Out} -- then you can zoomity-zoom closer to the Wine window. Unfortunately it will then sort-of keep the view centered to the mouse cursor, which is probably sucktastic for what you want.
18:32:38 <alise> fizzie: Apparently you can fix the mouse cursor into the area.
18:32:52 <alise> fizzie: I'm doing it in VirtualBox now, anyway (in my hybrid Windows 2000/NT 4 monstrosity).
18:33:04 <alise> Latest Wine is unreliable as fuck.
18:33:41 <alise> Great, VirtualBox is too laggy.
18:34:21 <pikhq> alise: It amazes me that there aren't 12cm magneto-optical discs being made.
18:34:40 <fizzie> You could try the old-fashioned way of making your display resolution lower.
18:34:51 <alise> fizzie: Yeaaaah, not on an LCD.
18:35:38 <fizzie> It's going to be messily scaled *anyway*.
18:35:50 <alise> fizzie: No; I just want it to scale up squarely.
18:36:04 <alise> I can deal with slight letter/pillarboxing; just not a tiny game.
18:36:44 <fizzie> Just scale the screen resolution to something with the right aspect ratio but something where the game window is not too tiny?
18:36:51 <Sgeo> alise, 2000/NT?
18:37:04 <pikhq> fizzie: Problem is that common LCDs do not keep aspect ratio when scaling.
18:37:15 <alise> Sgeo: Windows 2000, with NT's explorer.exe and shell32.dll hacked in.
18:37:15 <pikhq> They, instead, just assume that you would OF COURSE want 640x480 at 16:10.
18:37:22 <pikhq> (who the hell wants that anyways?)
18:37:53 <Sgeo> And hacked how? Just dropping NT's stuff in?
18:37:57 <Sgeo> Or was there more?
18:38:16 <alise> Sgeo: Why -- to make IE completely removable and to get a more usable file management interface.
18:38:25 <alise> How -- admittedly, someone else did Most of the Work.
18:38:28 <fizzie> pikhq: That's not a problem: you just scale the desktop resolution to something 16:10 with a close-enough height, and let the screen scale that.
18:38:35 <alise> Extract explorer.exe and shell32.dll from NT 4 update 6.
18:38:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:38:44 <alise> Hex edit explorer.exe; change shell32.dll to shell32.nt4 everywhere.
18:38:48 <alise> Rename shell32.dll to shell32.nt4.
18:38:59 <alise> Put shell32.nt4 in C:\WINNT on the 2000 machine.
18:39:07 <alise> Uh, or maybe in system32.
18:39:14 <alise> Replace C:\WINNT\explorer.exe with the NT4 version.
18:39:26 <alise> Remember to subvert Windows File Protection and various other in-use safeguards when doing the above.
18:39:31 <alise> Enjoy the bugginess.
18:41:07 <pikhq> Hmm. If I were more inclined to do Win32 programming, I'd just write an Explorer clone that'd work unbuggily on Win2k.
18:41:21 <alise> pikhq: ITT: ReactOS
18:41:35 * Sgeo wants to use ReactOS someday
18:41:46 <alise> "If this post reaches the front page, I will stream video games one a night for a month to raise money for Child's Play." --reddit
18:41:50 <alise> How horrific that will be for you.
18:41:53 <Sgeo> Maybe in 2 decades, when it's somewhat working
18:42:01 <alise> Sgeo: Actually wanting to use ReactOS is a sign of idiocy.
18:42:12 <alise> ...thinking that ReactOS will still be relevant in twenty years is a sign of I have no freaking idea.
18:42:25 <alise> You'll be over forty, by the way.
18:42:53 <pikhq> ReactOS is *somewhat* working now.
18:42:58 <Sgeo> How old is WINE?
18:43:03 <pikhq> Mostly courtesy of WINE having done most of the hard work.
18:43:06 <pikhq> Sgeo: About 15 years.
18:44:48 * Sgeo ignores Ubuntu's warning about restricted use
18:45:55 <Sgeo> And as punishment, I am hit with hellish lag
18:51:48 <alise> pikhq: I hereby command you with using QEMU to get a working NT 4 system on a non-x86 architecure.
18:55:12 <alise> Windows 3.1 found a niche market as an embedded operating system after becoming obsolete in the PC world. Up until November 2008, both Virgin Atlantic and Qantas employed it for some of the onboard entertainment systems on long-distance jets. It also sees continued use as an embedded OS in retail cash tills[13].
18:58:02 * pikhq wishes to have money
18:58:08 <Gregor> alise: I've tried to do that before.
18:58:10 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
18:58:23 <Gregor> alise: I haven't managed to get non-x86-NT working in any emulator :(
18:58:45 <alise> Gregor: Whuzza point, though? It's just going to be a souped-up DOS with servers.
18:58:49 <pikhq> It'd be nice to, say, have more hard drive space and a better graphics card.
18:58:59 <pikhq> (I'm currently using an on-board GPU)
18:59:06 <Gregor> alise: #1 reason would be to prove to you that your "no-GUI" claim is wrong :P
18:59:14 <alise> Gregor: It is not. But okay, let's try.
18:59:20 <alise> Gregor: Pick an architecture. I will pick another.
18:59:31 <pikhq> alise: Multitasking makes it a bit more than "souped-up".
18:59:46 <pikhq> Likewise with memory protection.
18:59:46 <alise> pikhq: I have a fair amount of money (well, as far as computer hardware goes), but you can't have it unless you do something really awesome.
18:59:56 <alise> Would you prefer I tried Alpha or PowerPC?
19:00:02 <alise> You're trying to maximise the changes of GUI here, remember.
19:00:08 <Gregor> Alpha would be more compelling, PowerPC more likely to work.
19:00:13 <Sgeo> Is it even possible to still buy Win3.1?
19:00:19 <pikhq> alise: Awesome? Okay. 2 Xeons in a box.
19:00:20 <Gregor> alise: Frankly I think you won't get either of them working :P
19:00:27 <Gregor> Sgeo: I'm sure if you've got enough money it is.
19:00:43 <alise> pikhq: Nonono, something awesome that isn't related to the money you get.
19:00:48 <pikhq> Sgeo: Yes; MSDN account.
19:00:54 <alise> pikhq: That's not buying.
19:01:08 <alise> Gregor: Which is more likely to have a GUI, in your opinion?
19:01:10 <pikhq> alise: You pay for the MSDN account.
19:01:14 <alise> Assume I am a magic making-it-work person.
19:01:22 <pikhq> alise: Y'know, the one that gives you access to all Windows.
19:01:26 <Sgeo> What does MSDN account give you, besides free Win... ah
19:01:40 <alise> Gregor: Okay; you get a MIPS version, I'll get PowerPC.
19:01:47 <pikhq> Sgeo: Also most of their dev stuff.
19:01:47 <alise> Any method acceptable, including actually buying real hardware.
19:01:55 <Gregor> alise: 3.5 shipped with all the versions on the disk, does 4 not¿
19:01:59 <alise> The challenge ends when either one of us gets it working, or one of us dies.
19:02:02 <alise> Gregor: Well, yes, it does.
19:02:11 <pikhq> (by "most" I mean "most *versions*". You'll probably miss out on Microsoft BASIC for the Altair.)
19:02:17 <alise> Gregor: I recommend we use a non-updated copy.
19:02:23 <alise> Who knows if the updates like the other architectures or not?
19:02:33 <alise> Gregor: http://www.torrentz.com/45866c5c7f7e94c7abfc644a869d8d8d27ed875e
19:02:36 <alise> Gregor: It's small, too.
19:02:56 <alise> Serial key on the http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3632026 link; will go faster if you paste the other trackers in.
19:03:17 <alise> Gregor: Are the updated copies likely to work with the other archs...?
19:03:34 <Gregor> alise: http://vetusware.com/download/Windows%20NT%20Server%204/?id=3438
19:03:46 <alise> Gregor: that's the server version
19:03:52 <alise> less likely to have the gui on other archs if you ask me
19:04:04 <alise> also, it's a .rar, and I doubt it has an .iso inside
19:04:10 <alise> also it wants me to register
19:04:21 <Gregor> It probably does, but I'll check. Vetusware is well worth registering :P
19:04:45 <alise> Please check your email for your account password.
19:04:50 <pikhq> alise: http://www.typewritten.org/Media/Images/winnt-4.0-ppc-new.install.png
19:04:58 <alise> I can pick my own goddamn p--
19:05:01 <pikhq> Yeah, that's NT 4 on a PowerPC.
19:05:04 <alise> pikhq: You have damaged the sanctity of the contest.
19:05:12 <alise> That image is photoshopped.
19:05:16 <alise> I refuse to say a word.
19:05:19 <alise> Gregor: Meanwhile,
19:05:28 <alise> Gregor: Still wanna do MIPS, or Alpha?
19:05:34 <alise> Maybe those don't have GUIs.
19:05:37 <pikhq> alise: That said, you will be totally awesome if you get it actually running.
19:05:39 <Gregor> MIPS. And it will have a GUI :P
19:05:44 <alise> Gregor: Alright then.
19:05:47 <alise> I'll go for Alpha, then.
19:05:59 <alise> pikhq: Fuck, now I want to build a non-x86 machine and put NT 4 on it.
19:06:06 <alise> And then install all the zero pieces of software you can get for it.
19:06:17 <alise> Gregor: it's not big enough, that rar
19:06:20 <alise> to contain the iso for all archs
19:07:15 <Gregor> I know that http://vetusware.com/download/Windows%20NT%20Server%203.51/?id=3436 is all archs from a previous download.
19:08:02 <pikhq> alise: Make it a PReP system and it'll work out of the box.
19:08:02 <alise> Gregor: Ha ha that 4 one is just i386.
19:08:23 <pikhq> alise: PowerPC Reference Platform.
19:08:23 <alise> Gregor: http://www.torrentz.com/275db63b173b4930e191c8e2f1a8415e66d670f2
19:08:27 -!- igo_ has joined.
19:08:29 <alise> NT 4 server, almost 400 megs, seeded.
19:08:41 <pikhq> alise: Alternately, CHRP. Common Hardware Reference Platform, also PowerPC.
19:08:44 <alise> pikhq: NO! I must build it manually.
19:08:50 <alise> And it shall be named Ivory Tower.
19:09:04 <pikhq> alise: You could actually *build* one of these.
19:09:06 <alise> Or IVORYT in Windows. :P
19:09:12 <alise> Gregor: "Iso by Mr. BirdPoo"
19:09:15 <alise> You know it's authentic.
19:09:22 <Gregor> Sounds about right to me!
19:09:27 <pikhq> alise: If you make it CHRP, you could get *Mac OS 8* on there as well.
19:09:32 <alise> Comments are Swedish but the torrent has "English" in the name.
19:09:34 <alise> OH WELL LET'S TRY THIS
19:09:46 -!- iGO has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:09:57 <alise> Gregor: Make sure to use http://www.torrentz.com/announce_275db63b173b4930e191c8e2f1a8415e66d670f2, ofc, otherwise it'll be sloow.
19:10:04 <alise> It'll be slow anyway, but!
19:10:18 <alise> Wait, if these rars don't have isos in them...
19:10:23 <alise> how do we make qemu boot from them?
19:11:20 <alise> Gregor: I'm gonna go for Alpha, since we know PowerPC Works.
19:11:25 <alise> So it's Alpha vs MIPS.
19:11:31 <alise> You have the cooler architecture. :P
19:11:35 <Gregor> I don't have a torrent client :P
19:11:50 <Gregor> Tell me what to write after "aptitude install"
19:12:15 <alise> Gregor: transmission-gtk
19:12:37 <alise> Then open that .torrent file, double click the torrent in the list, go to trackers, edit the list, and paste the *contents* of http://www.torrentz.com/announce_275db63b173b4930e191c8e2f1a8415e66d670f2 in.
19:12:44 <alise> Sit, wait, hope your router supports UPnP.
19:13:35 -!- igo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:13:46 -!- iGO has joined.
19:14:48 <Gregor> ... does transmission support DHT? :P
19:14:59 <alise> Think so, yes; why?
19:15:31 <pikhq> Also peer exchange.
19:15:33 <alise> Gregor: You should get a good speed just from those trackers.
19:16:45 <pikhq> It's actually a full-featured client. With a rather minimal UI.
19:16:53 <alise> *a rather awesome UI.
19:17:07 <alise> If you disagree, try using Azureus. Sorry, I mean Vuze.
19:17:29 <Gregor> The UI is fine, it's the features I was concerned about :P
19:18:52 <alise> The worst BitTorrent client is the default one.
19:19:07 <alise> You can see almost no information, you can configure almost nothing, and it only does one file per window.
19:19:18 <alise> Although nowadays it's just a modified uTorrent.
19:19:52 <Gregor> Give it a break, it invented BitTorrent :P
19:24:33 <alise> Gregor: And then continued being updated for many years past its expiration date.
19:34:11 -!- wareya_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:35:16 -!- wareya has joined.
19:40:02 <Sgeo> alise, what do you think of Mozilla Seabird?
19:40:34 <alise> I refuse to comment on flashy UI proof-of-concept videos.
19:41:52 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined.
19:45:31 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:46:08 <Sgeo> alise, when will you continue reading FS?
19:46:12 * Sgeo almost said watching
20:14:53 <fizzie> A friend had an Alpha with NT on it; I don't know why, but somehow I've always felt Alphas are boring. Maybe it's the PCI bus, it's so normal.
20:15:50 <fizzie> But I was under the impression that it was the most viable non-x86 NT thing.
20:16:10 <alise> fizzie: Shut up, we're doing PPC.
20:17:52 <Sgeo> Why did x86 win, exactly?
20:21:07 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:21:39 <alise> Sgeo: intel have a lot of money
20:21:50 <alise> microsoft chose it first
20:26:11 <Sgeo> "These extensions are known as Intel VT (code named "Vanderpool",) and AMD-V (code named "Pacifica".) Although most modern x86 processors include these extensions, the technology is generally considered immature at this point with most software-based virtualization outperforming these extensions.[19] This is expected to change as the technology matures."
20:31:10 <Vorpal> Sgeo, as long as it is faster than bochs!
20:31:13 -!- augur has joined.
20:32:44 <fizzie> It might be worth noting that [19] is a 2006 paper; I think (not my area, just a hunch) they've been steadily improving the virtualization extensions from that.
20:33:33 <Sgeo> Hmm, has Vala changed since I last looked at it?
20:35:53 <Vorpal> argh left click is broken in X again
20:36:37 <Sgeo> Ok, today's UF is boring
20:36:42 <Vorpal> other input too partly
20:36:44 <Sgeo> Not Illiad's fault, ofc
20:36:58 <alise> http://imgur.com/cWBDT.png
20:36:59 * Vorpal goes for ctrl-alt-backspace
20:37:00 <alise> This is NT 4.0 setup
20:37:02 <Sgeo> It's a repeat, not a guest cartoon
20:38:13 <fizzie> alise: It could do with some more, I don't know, pizzazz; I mean, it looks just like the non-MIPS installer. Maybe a rotating cube or something.
20:38:27 <alise> fizzie: It's in 800x600.
20:38:33 <alise> fizzie: Fucking malcontents.
20:38:56 * Sgeo hits alise with a table
20:39:11 <fizzie> It's in 800x600, yet it puts newlines at the same places the regular installer does, I think.
20:39:16 <alise> http://i.imgur.com/nBL9Q.png
20:39:20 <alise> EXOTIC ENOUGH FOR YOU????
20:39:22 <Sgeo> I'm in a giggly mood today
20:39:28 <Sgeo> Or at least, right now
20:39:34 <fizzie> alise: That's better, yes.
20:39:47 <Vorpal> well that worked, but was rather nasty
20:39:57 <Sgeo> alise, get it to work on OISC
20:40:00 <Vorpal> fizzie, happen to know any command to reset X input stuff?
20:40:09 <fizzie> alise: Was this qemu-system-mips or what?
20:40:18 * oerjan hits Sgeo with a red-black tree
20:40:59 <alise> fizzie: Yes, but no, it's not that easy.
20:41:04 <alise> Gregor can attest.
20:41:27 <Sgeo> I'm heading to #esoteric-silly
20:41:36 <fizzie> Vorpal: Not a general sort of command, though for keyboardy woes the xkb stuff can help.
20:41:42 <Sgeo> To avoid flooding everyone here with my nonsense
20:41:42 <alise> OH SNAP IT FORMATS THOSE TWO JIGGABYTES SO FAST
20:41:54 <Vorpal> fizzie, well it was first mouse, and then also some keyboard keys a bit later
20:42:03 <Sgeo> Aww come on, no one's there?
20:42:04 <Vorpal> fizzie, happened a few days ago as well, and that was the first time
20:42:31 <oerjan> Sgeo: your attempt to reduce the silliness of #esoteric is DOOMED, i tell you
20:43:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, right click and scrolling still worked, clicking scroll wheel did not
20:43:08 <Sgeo> Me: "Yay! Even more time wasted not recovering my harddrive!"
20:43:21 <Sgeo> Someone: "try putting it in the freezer always works for me"
20:45:11 <oerjan> by making it so obviously ruined that you stop wasting time on it?
20:45:32 * oerjan is juuust guessing here
20:46:05 -!- olsner has joined.
20:46:33 <alise> pikhq: I require funds to build the Ivory Tower MIPS Processing Centre, loaded with the Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 Workstation or Server Operating System.
20:46:42 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:46:46 <Sgeo> I'm not going to do it, but how would it hurt, besides if it got wet and didn't let it dry first before attempting recovery
20:48:03 <oerjan> didn't someone say condensation is bad?
20:48:39 <Gregor> Con-den-sation (sation, sation, sation ...)
20:48:48 <Sgeo> This was on Facebook, not on IRC
20:49:10 <oerjan> well i mean here, today
20:49:23 <oerjan> in fact wasn't it you when doing that vacuuming thing
20:49:36 <Sgeo> Compressed air
20:49:56 <Sgeo> A bit of the electronics looked a bit wet from it, wanted to be sure that it looking dry meant it was dry
20:50:11 <Sgeo> Presumably, a HD would dry out too?
20:51:19 * oerjan keeps having no clue :D
20:52:45 <Sgeo> Also, you have a weird definition of "today". It's almost as though days begin and end for you some time other than when they begin and end for me
20:54:07 <fizzie> The compressed air gases-as-liquids tend to be pretty electronics-safe, I believe; evaporate very quickly and so on.
20:54:27 <oerjan> behold my time traveling powers!
20:55:02 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
20:55:05 <Sgeo> I can time travel too!
20:55:15 <Sgeo> I can even time travel in my sleep!
20:55:23 <Vorpal> <Sgeo> Also, you have a weird definition of "today". It's almost as though days begin and end for you some time other than when they begin and end for me <-- did you mean: timezones
20:55:36 * Sgeo glares at Vorpal
20:55:40 <Sgeo> That's The Joje
20:55:57 <Vorpal> oh I thought you were just stupid. No offence meant.
20:56:12 <alise> Vorpal has progressed to outright calling Sgeo a dumbfuck :P
20:57:13 <Vorpal> alise, I added "no offence meant", doesn't that make it okay?
20:57:25 <alise> http://imc1.piccsy.com/13357-ba33a2-500-407.jpg
20:59:19 <Vorpal> alise, btw, what does resolving deltas mean for git clone?
20:59:32 <Vorpal> alise, it takes an awful lot of time, though this is the kernel source tree
20:59:38 <oerjan> alise: you've insulted Vorpal so many times you've infected him!
21:00:52 <alise> It means the server is busy creating a packfile to send
21:00:52 <alise> over the wire. If you pack the repository before cloning
21:00:52 <alise> from it, deltas from the packfile will simply be copied
21:00:52 <alise> into the new pack. This will provide a huge speedboost,
21:00:52 <alise> so make sure to repack the repository on the server every
21:01:55 <Vorpal> alise, hm... why it is then causing intensive harddrive seeking?
21:01:57 -!- jcp has joined.
21:02:07 <Vorpal> alise, it is definitely local, based on htop output and so
21:02:22 <alise> It's not skippable, though.
21:02:23 <Sgeo> I can donate the laptop to my step-mother's mother!
21:02:28 <alise> I guess you could ask them to repack.
21:02:45 <Sgeo> So she has a computer
21:02:49 <Sgeo> I can teach her how to use it
21:02:54 <Sgeo> I'd put a Linux on first, ofc
21:02:59 <alise> Sgeo: that sounds like liquid pain.
21:03:04 <alise> has she asked for a computer?
21:03:12 -!- zzo38 has joined.
21:03:13 <Sgeo> She's asked for me to teach her
21:03:37 <Sgeo> Puppy Linux isn't that bad for newbies, is it?
21:03:44 <Sgeo> I'd be there most of the time if she had questions
21:03:50 <alise> I'd install Ubuntu proper.
21:04:03 <Sgeo> On a device with <200MB RAM?
21:04:54 <Vorpal> Sgeo, who are you talking about?
21:04:59 <alise> Vorpal: his stepgrandmother.
21:05:28 <Vorpal> wtf is that? retro computing?
21:05:33 <Sgeo> This thing is from 1999 or so
21:05:34 <Vorpal> not something for a newbie
21:05:49 <Vorpal> Gregor, it is not a good desktop for a newbie though
21:05:49 <Sgeo> Because I found it in the house somewhere
21:05:56 <Vorpal> Gregor, how goes zee btw?
21:06:06 <Gregor> Vorpal: Stalled as it ever was.
21:06:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:06:44 <Sgeo> Also, how difficult is a clit mouse for a newbie? And what should I call it, I'm not saying clit mouse or nipple mouse
21:06:58 -!- cal153 has joined.
21:07:51 <Sgeo> Puppy Linux isn't that terrible for newbies when it works, is it?
21:09:07 <zzo38> Sgeo: Pointing stick?
21:09:30 <zzo38> It is what Wikipedia calls it
21:10:18 <Sgeo> My dad said no
21:10:26 <Sgeo> She needs to help get the house clean
21:10:40 <Vorpal> in theory this is capable of 80 MiB/s, why do I only get about 1.1 MiB/s
21:10:47 <alise> you are not a slave to your father
21:10:50 <alise> how many fucking times do we have to say this
21:11:00 <Vorpal> and harddrives at either end are not bottle neck
21:11:19 <Sgeo> So: Abandon the money he gives me for college, abandon the house I live in...
21:11:48 <Sgeo> And have to have a job that will only serve to distract me further from homework?
21:12:22 <alise> Yes: giving someone a laptop will cause your dad to go batshit crazy and kick you out of the house and never give you any money.
21:12:29 <alise> (If this is actually true and doesn't read like sarcasm, your dad is a fucking lunatic.)
21:12:37 <Vorpal> and CPU on either end is not fully loaded
21:12:48 <Vorpal> in fact *no* resource on the computers are fully loaded by this
21:13:26 <Vorpal> that gbit switch have been able to sustain way more than this before
21:13:49 <Sgeo> He might attempt to take away my computer
21:13:55 <Sgeo> And the ancient laptop
21:14:43 <alise> Sgeo: So, basically, your father is batshit insane and would try and make your life suck because you were generous or acted independently in any way signifying that you are perhaps an adult.
21:15:15 <Vorpal> alise, I fear that old dell laptop may have some vibrational issues with the hdd...
21:15:17 <Sgeo> alise, he's locked my computer and taken away my laptop in the past
21:15:21 <Sgeo> Not permanently, usually
21:15:22 <Vorpal> oh well, lets see how long it lasts
21:15:26 <Sgeo> But for extended periods of time
21:15:48 <Sgeo> Also, my step-mother's mother is moving [back] in. I think that does make a difference to the situation
21:15:55 <alise> Sgeo: So... you're basically just planning to rely on your batshit insane father who's halting your development into an adult because you get money in return for only doing everything he says.
21:17:03 <Sgeo> I think it's been halted enough such that working out how to get out is difficult
21:17:14 <zzo38> Which claims do you agree/disagree? http://jyte.com/claims?by=zzo38computer.cjb.net&page=1 (please note I do not necessarily agree with all of these myself, although I do agree most)
21:18:48 <alise> Sgeo: 1) Get job 2) Move out
21:19:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:21:05 <Sgeo> alise, I don't even know where I'd move to
21:21:12 <alise> Sgeo: You go to university, right?
21:21:32 <Sgeo> I don't know if I could switch to being in a dorm in the middle of a semester
21:21:47 <alise> Sgeo: You could always wait until next semester or just, you know, ask.
21:22:10 <alise> You have serious potential as a programmer, it's just that you haven't seemed to really change much in years.
21:23:18 <nooga> alise: i said: 0syntax
21:23:56 <Sgeo> alise, thank you
21:24:18 <Sgeo> Although by "haven't seemed to change", do you mean going-through-life-wise, or related to programmerness?
21:25:33 <alise> Sgeo: The former, really. You've improved as a programmer.
21:25:35 <nooga> yeah, i also keep mine in secret
21:27:45 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: What do you mean by that? What do you mean by not a decent wiki account?
21:28:37 <Phantom_Hoover> But *some people* have an irritating habit of not bothering to log in, making it nigh-impossible to find their work quickly.
21:29:02 <alise> (Did you mean me?)
21:29:33 <Sgeo> I'm also under Sgep
21:29:50 <Sgeo> I also don't have much work
21:30:08 <oerjan> hey _i_ always log in. except that one time the other day i didn't notice i'd been logged out.
21:32:48 <Sgeo> I guess I do sometimes do stuff anonymously
21:32:52 <Sgeo> Which seems strange for me
21:33:10 <Sgeo> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/24.46.152.130
21:35:21 * oerjan is more annoyed by people editing pages in myriads of small steps, since it fills up the recent changes
21:35:52 <oerjan> there is a considerable overlap with the anonymous editors there though
21:37:21 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, that annoys me too. Particularly because there's a great big "Preview" button next to the "Save" one.
21:40:14 <fizzie> Here's what graphviz thinks who talked the most with each other in 2009 here: http://zem.fi/~fis/conv2009.png
21:40:30 <alise> As predicted, I am the centre.
21:40:52 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Cuil has been shut down entirely, it seems.
21:40:59 <fizzie> There's also a rather central alise-ais523-Vorpal triangle.
21:41:52 <alise> ah, the days when we had lambabot
21:41:57 <alise> oerjan: go harass gwern to give us lambdabot
21:42:21 <oerjan> me? i'm not even on #haskell any more
21:43:00 <Vorpal> alise, nice phrase I spotted in kernelconfig: "Routing message grabulator"
21:43:30 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: You are rather in the middle in http://zem.fi/~fis/conv2010.png though.
21:44:05 <fizzie> (I'm a bit suspicious of the fact that it doesn't even have a fizzie-fungot edge at all, though.)
21:44:05 <fungot> fizzie: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10, then magic damage will be reduced by 10%. a star after any characteristic means it's at maximum strength! no matter what the price! it is, you idiot! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's t
21:44:16 <fungot> fizzie: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono! crono...!
21:44:16 <zzo38> Most of the lines seem to be joined to the node labeled "alise". I think "flexo" is the only node with only one line?
21:44:16 <oerjan> fizzie: you're missing some identifications. oklopol = oklofok, augur = psygnisfive, kerlo = warrigal iirc
21:44:34 <oerjan> and wasn't estoppel someone else too
21:44:44 -!- lambdabot has joined.
21:44:50 -!- Lemmih has joined.
21:45:03 <fizzie> oerjan: Yes, I only have alise/ehird/tusho → alise and vorpal/anmaster → vorpal. I'll add those to my nick-canonicalization list now.
21:45:47 <alise> fizzie: you need estoppel
21:45:53 <zzo38> fizzie: What is a nick-canonicalization list?
21:46:03 <alise> and i presume you do * at the end to get the iphones, otherwise i'm OUTRAGED
21:46:08 <alise> <oerjan> fizzie: you're missing some identifications. oklopol = oklofok, augur = psygnisfive, kerlo = warrigal iirc
21:46:25 <fizzie> alise: It matches all your prefixes, yes.
21:46:44 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a
21:47:43 <fizzie> alise: Which one was the current name of "kerlo = warrigal = uorygl"?
21:48:29 * Phantom_Hoover loves the way that his second-strongest conversation line is to fungot.
21:48:29 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! they're escaping! 1b is escaping! 1b is escaping! 1b is escaping! so! that cathedral to the west?... yes! well then rest and relax! huh?
21:48:40 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
21:48:48 <fungot> Selected style: ic (INTERCAL manual)
21:49:02 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: this would produce an error if reinstated somehow, but using a onespot or twospot variable is reverse-assigned twice in the standard directories for libraries on your computer does run out of memory during compilation, it will print a copyright message and a `next' or `again' was devised by malcom ryan, who implemented `come from'-based multithreading as a standalone line label.
21:49:06 -!- Lemmih has left (?).
21:49:21 <alise> damn, I forgot to thank Lemmih
21:49:25 <oerjan> fizzie: warrigal = tswett last he was here
21:49:27 <alise> oerjan: did you do that?
21:49:52 <alise> oerjan: get lambdabot
21:50:39 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Gah, I *just* redrawed those plots. I'll add that remapping, but won't bother updating those pictures. They're a mess anyway.
21:50:46 <oerjan> fizzie: soupdragon = fax (= misspiggy iirc), scarf = ais523, gregor-w = gregor. for gregor* and oklo* it may be best to use regexes...
21:51:10 <oerjan> i am sure oklopol had more, at least
21:51:15 <fizzie> oerjan: It's already a regex-based map, and I did ^gregor → gregor, ^oklo → oklopol.
21:51:49 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, Vonlebio = me, but that probably won't affect anything.
21:51:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Vonlebio.
21:52:53 <oerjan> alise: i had nothing to do with lambdabot
21:53:06 <alise> how did he appear?
21:53:45 * oerjan wants to cackle evilly, but feels unentitled
21:53:48 * Sgeo should learn to write resumes
21:53:55 <Sgeo> With the little accent thingies, ofc
21:54:24 <oerjan> fizzie: oh Vonlebio = Phantom_hoover too :D
21:54:31 <fizzie> The é in résumé, I guess.
21:55:11 <Vonlebio> Sgeo, do you have a compose key?
21:56:43 <Sgeo> Itś in an annoying place, though
21:56:47 <fizzie> oerjan: Done. Fixedated the pictures, even. (For some values of "fixed"; fdp's layouts leave something to be desired.)
21:57:13 <alise> fizzie: Now do the Origin of the Cosmos.
21:57:26 <alise> That is, the fast-track through 2004-present of the galaxies.
21:57:30 <Sgeo> It's is now itś, and its is now its
21:57:44 <alise> Sgeo: that isn't the compose key
21:57:47 <alise> that's a dead apostrophe
21:57:54 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:58:09 <Sgeo> Añd I used the compose key to make it
21:58:42 <Sgeo> I didńt turn ' into dead apostrophe
21:58:43 <oerjan> fizzie: the 2009 one looks like it got much larger
21:58:52 <Sgeo> The itś thing is just humorous to me
21:59:42 <fizzie> oerjan: The selection of what nodes and edges to include is pretty random. There's at least the "must have at least N comments" cutoff, so the merging of nicks could easily add nodes.
22:00:07 <Vonlebio> “Sgeo,” Vonlebio said, “compose can also be used for nice quotes.”
22:00:23 <Sgeo> Dear Firefox: When you crash, and I restart you, I really, really do not want all my tabs loading again
22:00:29 <Sgeo> In conclusion, fuck you, Firefox
22:00:46 <fizzie> Vonlebio: Also called "smart quotes", because they're obviously a lot smarter than the regular, old, stupid quote.
22:01:10 <Vonlebio> But noöne but me uses it for diæreses (or ligatures).
22:01:27 -!- jcp has joined.
22:01:32 <Vonlebio> Well, it was originally a habit of alise’s.
22:01:50 <Sgeo> Those aren't smart quotes
22:02:01 <alise> smart quotes with compose suck
22:02:03 <alise> with the default bindings
22:02:05 <Sgeo> They're more like bottomless quotes
22:02:13 <Sgeo> Which is kind of hot
22:02:45 <alise> That is the most ridiculous use of the phrase "hot" ever.
22:03:02 <zzo38> How do you modify the list of characters generated by compose key in Linux, for an individual account?
22:03:18 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Rule34Quotes.
22:04:31 <Vonlebio> alise, well, Compose-<-" is a rather ridiculous sequence.
22:04:39 <fizzie> alise: I'm not yet quite sure how to animate those, since the existing system needs quite a whole lot of data for a single point, let alone a whole constellation. I could try out (at some point) just shorter sets, but I think it might jumble everything up rather badly.
22:06:45 <fizzie> Vonlebio: That "PCA points with gaussian covariances" plot that looks like a starry sky. http://zem.fi/~fis/esomapn.png and those.
22:06:48 <alise> fizzie: plot first from only one day
22:06:50 <alise> then first + next day
22:06:57 <alise> so eventually it's the sum total of all logs
22:07:34 <zzo38> On Tuesday I will try the .XCompose. Is it necessary to log out and then log in again?
22:07:51 <Vonlebio> And it requires a restart of the X server.
22:07:54 <fizzie> Vonlebio: They're the two first PCA components; they don't have any sensible labels.
22:08:00 <fizzie> Vonlebio: Principal Component Analysis, you know.
22:09:00 <zzo38> Vonlebio: It is FreeGeek, it is Ubuntu LTSP. Will it work if the terminal is switched off and on again?
22:09:26 <Vonlebio> If that restarts the X server, then yes.
22:10:28 <zzo38> It is Ubuntu LTSP..... do you know anything about Ubuntu LTSP?
22:11:19 <oerjan> less than sane programming
22:11:21 <zzo38> Also, do you know how to make it start the terminal window maximized?
22:11:55 <fizzie> alise: It needs the data split into sets in order to get multiple points per person. Though I could take every N'th comment so that it'd sort-of cumulatively affect each point. The feature-extraction script I have can't quite also do "cumulative" yet -- well, I guess it could if I just regenerate the data files for each frame of animation, and stick the fixed PCA matrix somewhere else. I'll see what I can do.
22:12:35 -!- Rule34Quotes has changed nick to Sgeo.
22:12:36 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:14:03 <Vonlebio> fizzie, what data does it even extract?
22:14:16 <fizzie> Vonlebio: Didn't you see that list of components?
22:14:25 <fizzie> Vonlebio: http://zem.fi/~fis/esomap-comp.png
22:14:53 <fizzie> Vonlebio: It does 60 features, that's just a random-ish selection of 17.
22:15:29 <Vonlebio> So it's an attempt at grouping by writing style?
22:16:53 <fizzie> Vonlebio: Right. The confusion matrices I've seen have been about how well it classifies the points in http://zem.fi/~fis/esomapf.png
22:17:11 <fizzie> (Except that esomapf.png is a 2-dimensional projection, so they're not very "groupable" there.)
22:17:59 <Vonlebio> So wait, you and zzo are highly unusual in writing style?
22:18:20 -!- nooga has joined.
22:18:33 <fizzie> Yes, though you perhaps should keep putting "writing style" in quotes; the features are pretty trivial.
22:19:29 <Vonlebio> Sgeo, don’t start getting any sick pleasure out of that.
22:19:38 <fizzie> It also is not IRC-specialized at all, since we originally wrote that stuff to guess book authorship.
22:19:52 <Vonlebio> fizzie, so why you? zzo38 writes oddly, but you don't really stand out.
22:20:17 <fizzie> Vonlebio: I think it's mostly the sentence and "paragraph" (message) length features in my case.
22:20:53 <fizzie> Vonlebio: See message length distributions, alise vs. vorpal vs. myself: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/len.png -- there's a difference there.
22:21:03 <Vonlebio> Why can't you feed MY ego for this? It's obviously the most important!
22:23:35 <fizzie> Vonlebio: Okay, http://zem.fi/~fis/len.png has you too.
22:24:18 <fizzie> (The Y value where it sort of flattens out and goes noise-only depends on the total number of comments.)
22:24:20 <Vonlebio> Am I that line that goes insane between 150 and 250?
22:25:29 <fizzie> It's the Y value 1/N, where N is the comment count, since that's normalized frequencies of different line lengths, in logscale.
22:25:57 <fizzie> Seems to be a bit below 0.0001, so N > 10000 but not too much.
22:28:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:29:17 -!- sebbu has joined.
22:30:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined.
22:32:10 <Sgeo> My love for quotes is not sick
22:32:17 <Sgeo> I'm sure it's perfectly "normal"
22:33:01 -!- Vonlebio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
22:34:06 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover_: Why?
22:34:46 <Phantom_Hoover_> zzo38, it has quotes which will push Sgeo’s fetish over the edge!
22:35:39 <zzo38> It doesn't matter, you can use it if you want to
22:36:06 <Sgeo> Hah! Just “quoted” the whole universe
22:36:49 <Sgeo> With all the obvious implications
22:36:51 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Yivo.
22:36:56 <Yivo> Aww, registered nick
22:36:58 -!- Yivo has changed nick to Sgeo.
22:37:35 <Sgeo> Yivo hasn't been seen since 2009
22:37:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has changed nick to Vonlebia.
22:37:47 <Sgeo> Registered the day before
22:37:49 -!- Vonlebia has changed nick to Vonlebio.
22:39:51 <Vonlebio> You can use another Shakespearian acronym...
22:40:09 <Sgeo> Well, that was a bust
22:42:25 <zzo38> Read this, please: http://jyte.com/claims?by=zzo38computer.cjb.net&page=1
22:42:51 <Vonlebio> You win a million points if you can work out what Vonlebio is an acronym of.
22:43:27 <zzo38> Vonlebio: I can't figure out
22:47:06 -!- webquint has joined.
22:47:18 <Vonlebio> FFS there are ads on the 5-second movies.
22:47:33 <Vonlebio> The ads are *6 times as long* as the content.
22:48:15 <webquint> adblock plus probably kills them
22:48:49 <Vonlebio> They're those obnoxious ones that play before the video, so I shall need some further convincing.
22:49:58 <webquint> it kills them on livestream, and various other services. doesn't kill them for hulu. only way to know is to try it.
22:53:19 <Vonlebio> The worst part is that they're Windows 7 ads.
22:54:30 <Sgeo> Is Hashcash dead?
22:57:19 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:59:55 <Sgeo> Kaneva has opened to developers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23:01:37 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:15:32 <pikhq> Good *God* the FFXIII soundtrack sucks.
23:18:13 <Vonlebio> pikhq, s/the// and s/soundtrack//
23:18:31 <pikhq> It doesn't even have Prelude!
23:19:01 <zzo38> Does this mean anything to you? "Help! I disagree is full of nuts!"
23:19:24 <oerjan> Vonlebio: s/s\//s\/ /g
23:20:19 <oerjan> zzo38: sounds like something fungot would say
23:20:19 <fungot> oerjan: operand overloading causes a break, as if the command line ( this can be read, here's an example::.
23:24:03 -!- augur has joined.
23:24:22 <zzo38> Have you experimented writing music using notes other than standard 12-TET? Do you want to win a big spider by playing solitaire card? Do you think METAFONT is the best program for designing typefaces? How much garlic do you put in your tomato sauce? How long *isn't* this sentence? How much does Thursday weigh?
23:24:47 <Vorpal> so I have IRDA but nothing else to use it with
23:24:57 <Vorpal> turns out you can't do RCX with the IR port
23:25:02 <Vorpal> since it is not IRDAish at all
23:25:14 <Vorpal> it needs a fixed carrier frequency (unlike IRDA) and what not
23:26:29 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:29:11 <oerjan> no, heck if i know, i don't cook, 18 characters, and 15*10^16 eV/c^2
23:34:24 <webquint> yes, no, dunno, 1 or 2 cloves, one mile, ERROR: Cannot cast type (day) to type (weight)
23:35:01 <oerjan> oh i forgot the spider. no.
23:35:19 <Sgeo> I should look for the power and USB cables for my external HD
23:37:48 <Vonlebio> CONUNDRUM: how is Sgeo pronounced?
23:38:19 <Sgeo> http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/sgeo.wav
23:38:31 <Sgeo> Note: Don't visit other pages on that site
23:38:37 <Sgeo> I still haven't demalwareized them
23:38:41 * alise visits other pages on that site
23:39:12 -!- gunninK has joined.
23:39:27 -!- gunninK has left (?).
23:39:44 <Vonlebio> Sgeo, I am going to ignore that.
23:40:11 <Vonlebio> The more æsthetically pleasing choice is "Szheo".
23:40:41 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sqeo.
23:41:03 -!- Sqeo has changed nick to SeGo.
23:42:21 <fizzie> Vorpal: LIRC can use some IRDA chipsets for consumer IR with varying levels of success -- http://www.lirc.org/irda.html though I don't think it's quite up-to-date -- but it's mostly a matter of luck. I had one act-ir200l serial dongle I tried to use as a receiver -- there's a driver now -- and it sort-of got some data, but it was too noisy to be usable from more than 10 cm away.
23:42:28 -!- Wamanuz4 has joined.
23:42:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
23:42:56 <alise> SeGo: "Sir gay-oh", duh
23:43:27 * Vonlebio starts listening to Sgeo karaoke.
23:43:37 <alise> Holy shit SeGo's accent is *irritating as fuck*
23:44:01 <alise> How old were you in that recording?
23:44:05 <SeGo> Vonlebio, doesn't karaoke require lyrics?
23:44:19 <Vonlebio> alise, never comment on other people's voices, since you rarely know how annoying yours is.
23:44:35 <alise> Vonlebio: Enough people have analysed my voice for me to have a guess :P
23:44:42 -!- webquint has quit (Quit: Page closed).
23:44:56 <alise> (I sound like a British 10 year old minus the irritating.)
23:45:02 <alise> (And more, uh, smoothly British.)
23:45:03 <SeGo> It occurs to me that I don't know when I made it
23:45:08 <SeGo> Maybe around 2008 or so?
23:45:13 <SeGo> Hold on, maybe the server knows
23:45:36 <Vonlebio> The first person I ask gives my voice annoyingness 5/10.
23:46:04 <Vorpal> fizzie, you could perhaps use a webcam
23:46:12 <Gregor> My voice is too annoying for me to want a second opinion :P
23:46:12 <Vorpal> fizzie, after all they tend to pick up IR
23:46:13 <alise> SeGo: Is that accent normal where you are?
23:46:19 <alise> If so: we need to nuke that part of the US.
23:46:32 <Vonlebio> Gregor, I don't recall your voice being particularly grating.
23:46:34 <alise> Wait, I think SeGo lives in New York.
23:46:36 <alise> Let's nuke New York.
23:46:37 <Vorpal> fizzie, when I want to check something IRish works I tend to check in my phone camera
23:46:39 <alise> Get rid of al the hipsters.
23:46:41 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
23:46:42 <pikhq> SeGo: That is a really bizarre accent.
23:46:51 <alise> He sounded foreign for the first second or so
23:47:05 <alise> Then he just sounded like pure nase (nasal means "relating to nases")
23:47:22 <pikhq> It's, like, a mix of Italian and Minnesotan.
23:48:06 <Vonlebio> alise, DO NOT LISTEN TO HIS KARAOKE
23:48:14 <Gregor> Good lord, why are people so mean X-D
23:48:28 <alise> Vonlebio: LINK ME LINK ME
23:48:34 <Vonlebio> But I therefore sing as little as possible.
23:48:37 <alise> Poor SeGo is going to commit suicide.
23:48:49 <Vonlebio> alise, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A COPY OF PAINT IT BLACK ON HAND FIRST.
23:48:59 <Vorpal> alise, you know how mic/headphone jacks on computers are normally colour coded?
23:49:01 <Gregor> SeGo: Long Island, right?
23:49:03 <alise> QUICK DOWNLOAD IT BEFORE SEGEO DELETES IT
23:49:11 <Vonlebio> http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/paint_it_black_karaoke.ogg
23:49:14 <Vorpal> alise, same for many other connectors?
23:49:30 <SeGo> I'm not deleting it
23:49:36 <Vorpal> alise, which is rather useful. Except they decided they wanted a sober look on this dell. All connectors are gray
23:49:42 <SeGo> It's not the actual lyrics, it's lyrics from
23:49:48 <alise> Now let's use SeGo's hands to punch him and say "Stop hitting yourself!"
23:49:48 <Gregor> I'll record myself singing opera and upload that for you to make fun of :P
23:49:50 <pikhq> Northern Cities Vowel Shift *and* Italian and what the fucking fuck.
23:49:56 <Vorpal> alise, with some light gray labels above on the mid-gray case :P
23:49:59 <alise> Then we can lock him in a cupboard!
23:50:12 <SeGo> http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106380
23:50:16 <Vorpal> alise, it's rather absurd if the light conditions aren't good
23:50:24 <Vonlebio> alise, have you listened to it?
23:50:28 <Gregor> pikhq: It just sounds very Long Island to me.
23:50:29 <alise> Vonlebio: preparing to
23:50:42 <Vorpal> alise, actually there is one colour coded port. The parallel one.
23:50:49 <Vorpal> alise, which makes the whole thing even stranger
23:51:05 <SeGo> Why did I upload this?
23:51:05 <alise> I'm sorry, SeGo, but I don't have the endurance to listen to more than one second of that.
23:51:09 <SeGo> This should have been scrapped
23:51:13 <alise> Nothing personal, just... never sing. Ever.
23:51:24 <SeGo> I used to be in Chorus in elementary school
23:51:31 <fizzie> The Dell at work is mostly-black, and also has the front panel mic/headphone connectors black and with very unreadable labels. Haven't looked at the back panel, though, it might be conventionally color-coded there.
23:51:34 <Vonlebio> I have to listen to it in packets of a second to stop myself from going insane.
23:51:35 <pikhq> Yeah, that's not saying much.
23:51:35 <Vorpal> I don't think SeGo sounded too bad
23:51:48 <pikhq> You don't even have to know about pitch.
23:51:52 <alise> Vorpal: You mean the karaoke?
23:51:56 <alise> Or just the "HELLO MY NAME ISN'T SGEO"
23:51:58 <pikhq> Vonlebio: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR SINGING
23:51:59 <Vorpal> alise, no? I meant the name
23:52:04 <alise> Vorpal: http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/paint_it_black_karaoke.ogg
23:52:06 <Vorpal> alise, I missed the karoke
23:52:08 <Vonlebio> He starts singing about half an octave too high!
23:52:16 <pikhq> SeGo: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOURS
23:52:16 <Vorpal> alise, karoke is almost always bad
23:52:18 <alise> FURTHEMORE SEGEO SUCKS COCKS AND IS HOMOSEXUAL
23:52:22 <Vorpal> so I don't have high hopes
23:52:38 <Gregor> Desire to record myself singing opera increasing :P
23:52:48 <pikhq> Gregor: Understandable.
23:52:56 <alise> all opera sounds terrible, though
23:52:58 <SeGo> I couldn't read the lyrics that were onscreen obviously
23:53:02 <pikhq> Desire to record myself increasing. Lack of microphone constant.
23:53:05 <SeGo> Since those weren't the lyrics I wanted to record
23:53:09 <pikhq> alise: No, bad opera sounds terrible.
23:53:24 <Vonlebio> nooga, it cannot be unheard now.
23:54:06 <SeGo> I can now threaten this channel at will!
23:54:07 <alise> I have a microphone but ubuntu doesn't recognise its existence
23:54:31 <SeGo> I just need to threaten to sing! *sings about his newfound threatening ability*
23:54:47 <Gregor> It's too bad that all IRC clients are preprogrammed to download and play on loop any audio file presented.
23:55:28 <SeGo> I do want to try again at some point
23:55:31 <SeGo> Hopefully get it right
23:55:33 <zzo38> Gregor: No that isn't true
23:55:43 <SeGo> zzo38, that's the joke
23:56:05 <zzo38> Some IRC clients probably have an option (which might be disabled by default), and some do not download them at all
23:56:11 <alise> SeGo: I am pretty sure you naturally cannot sing.
23:57:52 <SeGo> Actually, I know when it was recorded:
23:58:12 <alise> SeGo: Again, is that accent usual where you are?
23:58:37 * SeGo feels like Vorpal and alise are talking about him behind his back :/
23:59:50 <Vonlebio> I think that file is going to have to be banned under some convention or other.