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00:05:59 <nooga> olsner: koka means cocaine in pl
00:08:29 <olsner> obviously we have other words for it since koka is already taken :)
00:08:57 <nooga> eh, it's kokaina exactly
00:11:30 <nooga> because we have some words that sound alike... um: smak - taste, some ppl say penga - money and tryknąć - to push
00:12:32 <nooga> instead of pieniądze - money and nacisnąć - to push
00:14:46 <nooga> but how would you explain smak, penga and tryk
00:15:37 <oerjan> well penga and variants is common in several languages
00:15:47 <oerjan> german Pfennig, english penny
00:16:18 <nooga> but we've got złoty
00:16:41 <nooga> and złoty means - golden
00:17:03 <oerjan> and we've got kron[ea], but peng[ea]r is the word for money
00:17:46 <olsner> czech money is also kronor (with weirder spelling, kurona or something like that)
00:17:56 <oerjan> hungarian pengö (actually should be a long accent on the o)
00:18:40 <nooga> http://www.empi2.pl/obudowa/slownik/files/banknoty2.jpg kickass kings
00:18:41 <olsner> I wonder if the beer brand slots (I think it's danish) is actually a form of golden, it would make sense for it to be a cognate for zloty
00:18:44 <Glasgeo> I'll probably watch on Hulu tomorrow
00:19:07 <oerjan> no, slot(t)? means castle
00:19:51 <oerjan> well more likely, anyhow
00:20:30 <olsner> of course it does, but that doesn't mean that's the root they're referring to
00:22:17 <oerjan> well they _could_ just be loanwords
00:22:42 <oerjan> it's also smeck or something like that in german, i think
00:22:49 <olsner> sweden was all over europe pwning around, a few hundred years ago
00:23:24 <olsner> at least it accounts for some weird loans of words and culture
00:23:29 <oerjan> drücken or something like that in german
00:23:43 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(history)
00:23:54 <nooga> tbh Poland was pwned by everyone
00:26:35 <olsner> hmm, 1.30, time to sleep again
00:27:41 <alise> Glasgeo: Young dies
00:28:04 <olsner> I wonder what the heck we need sleep for, if there's maintenance to be done why can't it just be *done* instead of requiring hours of hibernation
00:28:12 <Glasgeo> I don't think it even aired yet!
00:28:20 <alise> Glasgeo: because spoilers never leak to the internet
00:28:29 <alise> olsner: because it makes us hallucinate crazy shit
00:28:33 <Glasgeo> alise, do you want me to spoil FS for you?
00:28:49 <Glasgeo> So why would you spoil SGU for me?
00:28:50 <alise> olsner: the body's only defence is to make us even 1/4 aware of it happening and also to forget as much as possible
00:28:56 <alise> Glasgeo: because i'm a bastard
00:29:02 <alise> Glasgeo: also, I'm lying
00:29:05 <alise> through my teeth, no less
00:29:18 <alise> although Young might just die, I have no idea, I don't know a single thing about it
00:30:13 * Glasgeo has homework he needs to do :/
00:30:41 <Glasgeo> Also, what I said was more of a threat, really
00:30:47 <olsner> seriously though, why does lack of sleep cause hallucinations of crazy shit?
00:30:52 <alise> i know you're not evil enough to
00:30:58 <alise> except accidentally
00:31:04 <alise> also, you'd never see the end of shit from me if you did :)
00:31:11 <alise> olsner: who knows!
00:31:19 <olsner> alise: I demand answers
00:31:20 <oerjan> he accidentally humanity
00:31:30 <alise> olsner: there probably are answers, just we don't know them
00:31:37 <alise> "There is no universally agreed biological definition of dreaming."
00:31:58 <alise> [[In 1952, Eugene Aserinsky identified and defined rapid eye movement (REM) sleep while working in the surgery of his PhD advisor. Aserinsky noticed that the sleepers' eyes fluttered beneath their closed eyelids, later using a polygraph machine to record their brainwaves during these periods. In one session, he awakened a subject who was wailing and crying out during REM and confirmed his suspicion that dreaming was occurring.[4] In 1953, Aserinsky and his a
00:31:59 <alise> dvisor published the ground-breaking study in Science.[5]]]
00:32:02 <alise> how the heck did it take us that long to realise?
00:32:39 <olsner> afaik, no-one's figured out yawning yet either
00:32:51 <alise> olsner: THAT VIRUS IS TRANSMITTABLE OVER TEXT DAMMIT
00:33:13 <olsner> lol, your irc-brain barrier is failing
00:33:15 <alise> olsner: what we need is a language where the word for yawning is like
00:33:21 <alise> then we'd need have to worry
00:33:26 <alise> oh god now i'm yawning when looking at that
00:33:46 <olsner> in #haskell, they call it yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
00:33:54 <alise> olsner: i'm pretty sure the at least pop science theory is that dreams are your brain sifting through memories and deciding what to junk or not and the like
00:34:14 <alise> thus accessing them, and your brain translates this into a semi-coherent experience as it tries to make sense of the crazy
00:34:20 <alise> olsner: really? (also FUCK YOU)
00:34:45 <olsner> well, sure, brain defrag... just do it in the background dammit
00:34:51 <oerjan> mad theory: the dream world is the real one, we're just hallucinating this one ;D
00:35:24 <alise> olsner: ur doing it wrong
00:35:36 <alise> fun fact: the star wars holiday special is canon
00:35:40 <alise> every single bit of it
00:35:43 <olsner> alise: IRC strips kerning information
00:36:21 <olsner> alise: kerning now also makes you yawn
00:36:32 <olsner> keeeerning, yaaaawning
00:36:34 <nooga> swe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_61s62WKVio vs pl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seUsXbPkiL4 xD
00:36:36 <alise> I HATE YOU SO MUCH
00:37:47 <nooga> my surname is Gasperowicz
00:37:59 <nooga> i hate the word "gasp"
00:39:16 <Gregor> I HATE ALL ONOMATOPOEIAS
00:39:43 <olsner> nooga: this is pronounced e though
00:39:48 <nooga> gasp is not the sound
00:39:57 <nooga> gasp sholud be: sap
00:40:23 <nooga> and the sound that dogs make is: hau hau
00:40:34 <Gregor> nooga: WhoTF makes a sound vaguely similar to "sap" while gasping >_O
00:40:43 <Gregor> If you make that sound, go to a hospital. Immediately.
00:41:10 <nooga> no, srsly, it's written like this
00:41:20 <olsner> oh right, sleeping over yawning it was
00:42:06 <alise> it's more like "hah"
00:42:36 <oerjan> gah now i'm yawning for real
00:43:29 * Glasgeo wonders if he can put alise to sleep over IRC
00:44:21 * oerjan waits for alise to respond with a remark indicating that's all Glasgeo does
00:45:00 <alise> a remark indicating that's all Glasgeo does
00:47:12 <oerjan> disappointment over failure to follow use/mention distinction
00:48:29 <alise> oerjan: remark indicating disappointment over
00:49:06 <oerjan> use of insect obliteration device on alise
00:49:55 <alise> The use–mention distinction is especially important in analytic philosophy.[3] The standard notation for mentioning a term in philosophy and logic is to put it in quotation marks. Notating using italics might require a potentially infinite number of typefaces.[4]
00:53:02 <nooga> incest obliteration
00:55:22 <alise> insect obliteration! ahahahaha oh wait
00:59:31 <nooga> my zangband compilation sometimes writes "incest" instead of "insect"
01:00:25 <alise> zangband is for luzers
01:01:13 <nooga> zangband = more fun than vanilla angband
01:01:34 <alise> nooga: nethack >>> angband
01:01:42 <alise> angband is just a wimp game for losers, it even has a bot that can complete the game
01:01:43 <nooga> nethack is unplayable
01:01:44 <alise> how fucking easy is that?
01:01:52 <nooga> because of goddamn cat
01:01:57 <alise> nooga: you can kill it
01:02:05 <alise> or any number of things
01:02:19 <Glasgeo> nooga, minimize the window when you leave the computer unattended?
01:02:54 <alise> Glasgeo: shut the fuck up
01:03:02 <alise> nooga: Let me make this easy for you. Angband: yeah, there's a bot to play that.
01:03:13 <alise> Nethack: TAEB can get down a few levels... most of the time...
01:03:19 <alise> it can do sokoban...
01:03:29 <Glasgeo> How does it successfully reach sokoban?
01:03:56 <alise> by going down levels until it reaches sokoban
01:03:58 <alise> and then entering sokoban
01:04:23 <Glasgeo> nooga, Xom is never boring! Play Crawl!
01:04:36 <alise> Glasgeo: crawl is a shitty game
01:04:46 <Glasgeo> alise, just because you hate the view
01:04:53 <alise> nope, i played it too
01:05:06 <alise> especially ais' complaint about monsters with super-attacks that they rarely use
01:05:11 <alise> nethack is far better designed
01:05:45 <nooga> nethack is simple and hard
01:06:07 <alise> nethack isn't simple in the boring rogue sense, it's a rich game
01:07:32 <alise> what's the footv bot again
01:07:35 <alise> that's the only good part of crawl
01:09:04 <alise> nice roguelike food idea: corpses start out raw, then mature into an edible state, then go rotten
01:09:12 <alise> perhaps only for a certain race or whatever
01:10:01 <Glasgeo> So corpses are more like fruit?
01:10:46 <alise> explanation could be that it's a species that likes its corpses partially rotten
01:10:59 <alise> a nice thing about nethack is how simple combat is
01:11:04 <alise> unfortunately that's also a point of boredom
01:11:10 <alise> but complex battle planning isn't so fun
01:11:14 <alise> something in-between
01:20:25 <alise> http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Heat
01:20:32 <alise> everything is at absolute zero in a conservative CA :)
01:20:38 <alise> there is still heat
01:20:49 <alise> Phantom_Hoover logreading: ^ work that into the "real-physics" CA :P
01:20:53 <alise> Glasgeo: You, remind me of that tomorrow.
01:23:36 <alise> HEY ME PAY ATTENTION
01:23:37 <alise> HEY ME PAY ATTENTION
01:23:37 <alise> HEY ME PAY ATTENTION
01:23:37 <alise> HEY ME PAY ATTENTION
01:23:39 <alise> ELIJGLKJSGDFGJSDFKGSHGKSJLDFG
01:25:17 <alise> http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Overweight_spaceship
01:25:18 <alise> An overweight spaceship (or OWSS for short) is a would-be spaceship similar to the lightweight spaceship, middleweight spaceship and heavyweight spaceship, but longer. On its own an overweight spaceship is unstable because the three cells at its top do not die off like the corresponding sparks at the top of the smaller spaceships. Nonetheless, it can be escorted by true spaceships to form a flotilla.
01:25:36 <alise> http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Spaceship_flotilla
01:26:23 <alise> "Everything else", what a great category
01:28:30 <Glasgeo> You never heard of OWSS before?
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01:29:50 <alise> "In June, 2010 Dave Greene constructed the first true knightship in Life, which is based on Gemini and travels at a velocity of (4096,8192)/c35567490."
01:29:58 <alise> http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=406&start=25a#p2578
01:31:15 <zzo38> Now try to play these computer game "CGA Collection"!! (It is not quite finish yet, sorry) http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/cgacoll.zip
01:31:34 <Glasgeo> I thought Gemini was a true knightship?
01:31:43 <Glasgeo> That had the replicator bits disabled for some reason
01:32:30 <alise> "and he has studied the Long Life rule." ;; what's this?
01:32:40 <alise> it's not a knightship, knigtship is
01:32:48 <alise> A knightship is a spaceship of type (2m,m)/n (that is, a spaceship that moves two cells horizontally for every one cell it moves vertically). Knightships must be asymmetric and their period must be at least 6, which makes searching for them using programs like lifesrc very difficult. An "almost knightship" was found on March 23, 2004, which would be a period 6 knightship if it weren't for three cells that are incorrect in its sixth generation.[1]
01:32:49 <alise> Alternatively, 'knightship' may refer to any spaceship that travels in an oblique direction (not diagonally or orthogonally). The first oblique spaceship to be discovered, Gemini, was found in May, 2010 with a velocity of (5120,1024)c/33699586. In June, 2010 Dave Greene constructed the first true knightship in Life, which is based on Gemini and travels at a velocity of (4096,8192)/c35567490.[2]
01:33:01 <alise> replicator bits disabled? what?
01:33:27 <Glasgeo> alise, I thought gemini was .. for some reason, not itself a replicator, but could be turned into one
01:33:33 <Glasgeo> It occurs to me that I may be mixed up
01:33:49 <alise> that's just a computer + constructor without an appropriate replicating program
01:34:01 <alise> gemini is a self-removing oblique replicator spaceship
01:34:04 <alise> that has been modified into a knightship
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01:40:49 <zzo38> In addition, I have been assigned to work on a PXE Linux module. How do I send a UDP packet with that?
01:52:10 <Glasgeo> I can now bruteforce a list of all usernames at my school [and everyone has a username]
01:57:16 <Glasgeo> Based on last name and first and middle initial
01:57:39 <Glasgeo> I'm still looking for an actual list
01:57:46 <Glasgeo> I'm not going to start bruteforcing stuff
02:03:45 <oerjan> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/H%C3%AB%C3%A4v%C3%BF_M%C3%ABt%C3%A4l_%C3%9Cml%C3%A4%C3%BCt_D%C3%A4%C3%BF, argh.
02:04:52 <Glasgeo> From usernames, I can now go to full names
02:11:46 <Gregor> You'll NEVER guess MY full name from my username.
02:17:11 <Gregor> Side ... channel attacks?
02:17:15 <pikhq> Gareth, Rex Oregon?
02:17:40 <pikhq> Gareth, Rex Gorbinald
02:17:49 <pikhq> That one actually makes sense.
02:17:59 <pikhq> Gregor: King of Oregon?
02:19:08 <oerjan> lousy latin grammar. itym Oregonis.
02:19:27 <oerjan> Garethus, Rex Oregonis.
02:21:59 <pikhq> oerjan: Latin Sine Flexione, you fool. :P
02:22:57 <pikhq> Okay, in that case your pedantry is more than valid.
03:10:11 <zzo38> I wrote a Underload interpreter in TeX
03:11:02 <zzo38> : is \begingroup and ! is \endgroup
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05:25:47 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/aXWH
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06:36:24 <zzo38> I have just corrected a serious bug in the Underload interpreter. Fixed version: http://sprunge.us/jLSD
06:39:35 <zzo38> When it asks for the filename, type the filename of Underload program (extension .ul is assumed). Program output is sent to file called underload.out
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12:16:58 <nooga> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGkkyKZVzug
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13:34:57 <alise> hi Quadlex, you new?
13:46:13 <Quadrescence> Just to make tab completing a pain, hi everyone
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13:53:32 <Gracenotes> I make tab-completing a pain too. we're not alone :.
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15:10:11 * alise decides to design a simple RISC.
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15:11:26 <alise> I'm tired of powers of two. Why not a 24-bit processor?!?!!
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15:15:20 <alise> i wonder how practical 24-bit is in hw if you did some fun stuff
15:15:23 <alise> nooga: you're the hw expert, ansewr
15:18:00 <alise> nooga: that's totally not answering
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15:31:00 <alise> Vorpal: your RoadRunner bullshit is over
15:31:02 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_(computer)
15:31:05 <alise> Meet the new king.
15:31:14 <alise> Cray is back, bitches.
15:31:22 <alise> And it looks awesome: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/JaguarXT5.jpg
15:31:50 <alise> nooga: LESS COOKING MORE ANSWERING
15:33:40 <nooga> i think that 24b would act pretty simmilar to any other architecture
15:35:39 <alise> nooga: but RAM is based on powers of two, right?
15:35:55 <alise> hmm, there's nothing actually inherent in a power of two bitsize is there?
15:38:05 <alise> nooga: although a 24-bit computer could only address 16 megs of ram :P
15:38:33 <alise> nooga: unless you used two words per address, then it'd be 256 terabytes, which is a nice number
15:40:31 <alise> nooga: comment, HW slave
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15:45:10 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: i said stuff for you in the logs
15:45:36 <alise> 17:20:25 <alise> http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Heat
15:45:36 <alise> 17:20:32 <alise> everything is at absolute zero in a conservative CA :)
15:45:36 <alise> 17:20:36 <alise> wait, no
15:45:36 <alise> 17:20:38 <alise> there is still heat
15:45:36 <alise> 17:20:49 <alise> Phantom_Hoover logreading: ^ work that into the "real-physics" CA :P
15:45:41 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Work as in "work heat preservation in".
15:45:51 <alise> Some sort of heat-energy equivalence. So on.
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15:55:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Making a conservative CA reversible would presumably entail constraining the rules such that the number of cells that change can be no more than the number of existing ones...
15:56:23 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: WHY DO WORDS FAIL YOU
15:56:26 <alise> WE NEED REALISTIC CA PHYSICS
15:56:37 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Otherwise you could have a perpetual motion machine.
15:57:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Perpetual motion is possible in this universe, anyway.
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15:58:46 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I DON'T WNAT TO BE PSIBLE
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16:00:10 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: No! The gliders can eat food.
16:01:31 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Pick a number of bits.
16:02:05 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Fine.
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16:03:04 <alise> THIS UNIVERSE IS *NOT* BASED ON A CA
16:03:06 <alise> THAT IS WHY IT IS INFERIOR
16:03:08 <alise> WE MUST BUILD ONE THAT IS
16:03:10 <alise> AND TRANSFER INTO IT
16:03:14 <alise> THEN SHED OFF OUR PHYSICAL BODIES
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16:03:19 <alise> ALL OF THEM; THE REVOLUTION SHALL BE AUTOMATIC
16:03:23 <alise> NO CONSENT WILL BE NECESSARY
16:03:39 <alise> EVERYONE'S BODIES WILL BE UNNECESSARY THEY SHALL BE A 100X100 PATTERN OF CELLS IN THE NEW UNIVERSAL ORDER
16:04:26 <alise> "While many people call the GNU system GNU/Hurd this is not strictly true. The kernel is GNU Mach not the Hurd. The Hurd is a series of servers which run on top of the microkernel, GNU Mach. Both the Hurd and GNU Mach are part of the GNU project while the Linux kernel is an independent project."
16:04:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Then why bother with replicating real physics to a boring degree?
16:05:57 <alise> Length: 4525166592 (4.2G) [application/x-iso9660-image]
16:05:57 <alise> Saving to: `debian-L1-hurd-i386-DVD1.iso'
16:05:57 <alise> 0% [ ] 39,734,084 840K/s eta 88m 29s
16:06:12 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: More seriously -- I don't believe in that heat idea -- that's why you just shed it (in a conservative automaton).
16:06:15 <alise> Spit out gliders or whatever.
16:06:20 <alise> Or still life, or oscillators.
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16:06:58 <alise> Besides, f(x,y) = (x+y,x-y) is a reversible implementation of both addition and subtraction without having to use a bit bucket.
16:07:10 <alise> (The bit that requires a bit bucket is throwing away one of them and only using the other.)
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16:07:31 <alise> *(x+y, x-y), that is.
16:09:41 <alise> Then you throw it into the bit bucket. Or just let it take up that memory and ignore it.
16:09:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Although making it nonreversible makes the bit bucket a rather cooler idea.
16:09:53 <alise> I see you are not familiar with reversible computing.
16:10:05 <alise> Also, the bit bucket is just terminology for pooping.
16:10:11 <alise> In modern CPUs, the bit bucket is heat.
16:10:18 <alise> <Phantom_Hoover> But if you don't want x-y?
16:10:20 <alise> seemed to imply not.
16:10:43 <alise> In a reversible automaton, the bit bucket would just be throwing out junk like gliders, still lifes or oscillators.
16:10:46 <alise> To get rid of the cells.
16:10:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Synthesis is also possible this way, but it's very wasteful.
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16:11:08 <alise> Why am I dedicating 4.2 gigs on my disk to HURD? Who knows?
16:11:19 <alise> *the Hurd. Because it's a lowercase acronym!
16:11:29 -!- augur has joined.
16:12:03 <alise> Arch Hurd is for wimps. Debian is where it at
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16:13:01 <fizzie> Archhurd, something like an archbishop but for a hird of hurds.
16:13:33 <alise> eHird, an online Hurd instance.
16:13:53 <fizzie> Your hurdistic tendencies must be because of the name.
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16:17:10 <Sgeo> My professor essentially told me to stop asking hypothetical questions, I might be confusing the other students
16:17:32 <alise> 13% [====> ] 614,377,898 834K/s eta 78m 26s
16:17:36 <Sgeo> So I'll ask in here: Can I have a variable that evaluates to two unrelated things in string and number contexts, the way $! does?
16:18:03 <alise> Unfortunately, nobody here answers hypothetical questions.
16:18:06 <alise> Say Phantom_Hoover, what if a duck died?
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16:18:47 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: oh no!
16:19:00 <alise> THAT MAKES ME THE SADDEST.
16:24:47 <Phantom_Hoover> How does eating work in a reversible, conservative CA?
16:25:05 <Phantom_Hoover> You can't just shoot a glider at a block and get two gliders coming back.
16:25:52 <alise> Imagine a "spaceship" with a fuse inside that is always ticking. It has a little tendril thing that, upon collision with a properly-shaped niblet of food, shoves it down to the end of the fuse.
16:26:01 <alise> If the fuse were ever to run out, it would implode.
16:27:00 <alise> IF THE FUSE WERE EVER TO RUN OUT, IT WOULD IMPLODE.
16:27:17 <alise> IF THE FUSE WERE EVER TO RUN OUT, IT WOULD IMPLODE.
16:30:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Is there a receipt to the universe saying "I ate that block"?
16:34:03 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: It "eats" it by using some sort of transport mechanism to push it along a wire, and pop it on the end of the fuse.
16:34:18 <alise> That is, it directly and literally uses the food. It burns the food to move.
16:34:36 <alise> Of course, there could be some sort of digestive system where it turns the inert food into something more useful.
16:34:41 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: The burning, of course, gets released.
16:34:51 <alise> But of course moving a cell and putting at the end of some other cells is reversible...
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16:35:13 <alise> The burning is just some reaction that turns the food into a small oscillator or something that escapes the glider, after using some of its energy to help move the big, food-ship.
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16:42:12 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Because physics is.
16:42:17 <alise> And reversibility is COOL.
16:42:23 <alise> Watch the unrise of civilisation!
16:42:36 <alise> "Hmm, I wonder if there's a nicer predecessor of this... ...yep."
16:42:40 <nooga> does anybody know if mono execs run under windows?
16:43:48 <alise> 43% [===============> ] 1,957,187,962 834K/s eta 50m 42s
16:43:56 <alise> if they install mono :P
16:44:03 <alise> i guess you can probably bundle the framework with it?
16:45:57 <alise> nooga: 36 or 54 bits, which is cooler
16:46:39 <alise> 36 can address 64 gigabytes, 54 can address 16 petabytes :P
16:50:09 <Vorpal> <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_(computer) <alise> Meet the new king. <-- I have known about that for weeks
16:50:29 <Vorpal> I'm* not attached to roadrunner in specific
16:50:30 <alise> THEY BUILD FAST THINGS
16:50:36 <Vorpal> just to <whatever is the fastest one currently>
16:50:51 <Vorpal> alise, so you completely fail at trolling
16:51:25 <alise> IBM POSERS DON'T MOTHAFUCKIN' KNOW HOW A FAST BEASTLY COMPUTAH BE LOOKIN. THEY JUST SHOVE THEIR COMPUTERS TOGETHER N CALL IT WINNING. NO MOTHERFUCKER! CRAY! CRAY INC! FUCKING CRAY INC! THEY BUILD FAST THINGS! THEY BUILD FAST THINGS WITH A FREAKIN "JAGUAR" AND A FREAKIN JAGUAR ON THE FRONT BECAUSE THEY ARE MOTHERFUCKING CRAY
16:51:37 <alise> CRAY INC COULD TAKE OVER IBM TOMORROW... BUT WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO
16:51:44 <alise> CRAY INC MOTHERFUCKER! CRAY! CRAY!
16:52:03 <alise> i wanna try the Cray Linux Environment
16:52:26 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebulae_%28computer%29 God that name annoys me
16:52:39 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: IT'S MULTIPLE NEBULAE
16:53:11 <alise> theoretical peak performance, n. a bullshit figure we extrapolated from a reality in which the speed of light is 20x what it is in our universe.
16:53:32 <alise> [[UNICOS/lc: not derived from UNICOS, but based on SuSE Linux. Used on the XT3, XT4 and XT5. UNICOS/lc 1.x comprises a combination of the Catamount microkernel (based on Cougar, used on the ASCI Red system) running on the compute elements, and SuSE Linux running on the service elements. In UNICOS/lc 2.0, Catamount is replaced by a customized Linux kernel, called Compute Node Linux (CNL). [1] From release 2.1 onwards, UNICOS/lc is now called Cray Linux Enviro
16:53:43 <alise> CRAY: RUNNING LINUX ON TOP OF A MICROKERNEL
16:54:09 <alise> fucking crays, how do they work
16:55:13 <alise> 56% [===================> ] 2,538,296,296 762K/s eta 39m 12s
16:55:31 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: FUCKING CRAY MOTHERFUCKER
16:55:33 <Vorpal> <alise> theoretical peak performance, n. a bullshit figure we extrapolated from a reality in which the speed of light is 20x what it is in our universe. <-- [citation needed]
16:55:36 <alise> IF YOU ADD A Z TO CRAY YOU GET CRAZY
16:55:45 <alise> CRAY IS MOTHERFUCKIN CRAZY AND NO APOLOGIES
16:55:50 <alise> DOING SHIT NOT EVEN POSSIBLE
16:55:55 <alise> VORPAL: HUMOUR DETECTION ENGINE NEEDED YO
16:56:01 <alise> CRAY INC GETS ALL THE FUCKIN HUMOUR
16:56:19 <alise> SEYMOUR CRAY ONCE PUNCHED CHUCK NORRIS. HE GOT CANCER (CHUCK NORRIS)
16:56:27 <Vorpal> alise, it is easier if it is actually funny
16:56:40 <alise> Vorpal: it was a slight against the Nebulae figure
16:56:47 <alise> (>2 petaflops theoretical peak performance)
16:56:52 <alise> (Jaguar gets 1 petaflops sustained in practice)
16:57:13 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Accent fail.
16:57:27 <alise> It's Erdős, goddammit! Erdős!
16:57:52 <alise> I would put it in capitals but I can't type that ő. :P
16:57:54 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: COPY AND PASTE MAN
16:57:57 <alise> CRAY WOULD COPY AND PASTE
16:59:51 <alise> CRAY USES FIBER-OPTIC CABLES RECTALLY
17:00:11 <alise> HE TICKLES IN THE INDIVIDUAL BITS OF LIGHT
17:04:24 <alise> 66% [=======================> ] 3,003,294,256 840K/s eta 30m 3s
17:04:35 <alise> WITH A CRAY COMPUTER ON AN IDENTICAL NETWORK THIS WOULD HAVE DOWNLOADED IN THREE MINUTES
17:04:45 <alise> TWO IF YOU DISABLE ALL THE CPUS WHICH WORKS BECAUSE OF CRAY GODDAMN
17:06:32 <Vorpal> alise, watched that minecraft video you mentioned yesterday
17:06:50 <alise> yeah i wish we saw it actually computing though -- or maybe we did, and it was just not really seen :P
17:07:24 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what about the ~ key followed by o ? That works here... but then ~ is a dead key.
17:07:31 <Vorpal> so it does nothing with compose
17:08:07 <alise> If anything, it'd be ``o.
17:08:09 <Vorpal> same at this font size
17:08:10 <alise> Anyway, dead keys suck shit.
17:08:40 <Vorpal> alise, not when you write a language where they are useful
17:08:57 <Vorpal> alise, like é and è. Happens in Swedish every now and then.
17:09:01 <alise> Also known as LANGUAGES OF FAIL.
17:09:04 <alise> Vorpal: we get that too.
17:09:16 <Vorpal> alise, a bit tricky to write on your keyboard though
17:09:42 <alise> Not difficult. Although I forget which.
17:09:53 <alise> (which key after altgr; but that's only because I use it rarely.)
17:09:58 <Vorpal> alise, so altgr-; is a dead key
17:10:33 <alise> It's not a dead key if there's a modifier involved.
17:11:11 <Vorpal> alise, define dead key then. I thought it meant "does nothing until you press another key"
17:11:56 <alise> dead key is a single key on the keyboard that, when pressed alone, does nothing until you press another key, inserting a combined accent version or, when combined with e.g. space, inserts the character itself.
17:12:04 <Vorpal> alise, because by your logic some "dead keys" on Swedish keyboards are not. Because they have different stuff on shifted and non-shifted (but both are dead)
17:12:05 <alise> they are very annoying. especially when one's on '
17:12:09 <alise> (this is the source of "don`t syndrome")
17:12:23 <Vorpal> alise, um ' is not a dead key here
17:12:39 <alise> please quote the line where i stated it is
17:12:54 <Vorpal> alise, well you implied that there are keyboard layouts on which it is the case
17:13:04 <Vorpal> otherwise such a syndrome wouldn't exist
17:13:27 <alise> please quote the line where i stated it is on yours
17:13:52 <Vorpal> alise, also I didn't say you implied it was on Swedish layout
17:13:56 <Vorpal> I was just noting that it wasn't
17:14:15 <Vorpal> alise, which keyboard layouts have ' as dead then...
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17:29:10 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, Do I dare ask what that is?
17:29:42 <Phantom_Hoover> It's just a variant of Langton's Loop capable of genetic transfer between loops.
17:32:12 <alise> http://homepages.feis.herts.ac.uk/~on5ag/sexyloop.html
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17:46:50 <Vorpal> alise, hm is the article only on IEEE exlore?
17:47:28 <alise> seems so. there's also http://homepages.feis.herts.ac.uk/~on5ag/mypapers/OROS_2009_IEEE_ALIFE_b.pdf
17:47:38 <alise> https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/1735/1/901918.pdf
17:47:41 <alise> the original paper
17:47:50 <Vorpal> damn "Content is outside your subscription"
17:47:56 <Vorpal> I can't get it through university proxy
17:48:01 <alise> https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/1735/1/901918.pdf
17:48:42 <alise> (Reviewing the state-of-the-art in modern abstract fields of mathematics without providing an instrument of capitalism requires breaking international law. Discuss.)
17:48:59 <Vorpal> I was just somehow fucking up the url
17:49:25 * Vorpal reads the ieee publication
17:49:38 <zzo38> alise: I do not quite understand what you mean by that
17:49:43 <alise> Vorpal: I *linked to the IEEE publication*.
17:49:47 <Vorpal> (no I won't share, all pdfs are watermarked with who and when downloaded it)
17:50:02 <alise> zzo38: The law is copyright law, the instrument of capitalism is the almighty dollar, and the state-of-the-art is recorded in papers.
17:50:34 <alise> The only exception is, of course, if you live in a country that (a) has free university and (b) has free universities whose subscription extends to those papers.
17:50:52 <Vorpal> alise, a and b applies here?
17:51:01 <alise> Vorpal: Yes; you're lucky.
17:51:19 <alise> Vorpal: Although your *state* is now feeding the IEEE, which is rather questionable from the IEEE-isn't-very-not-evil point of view.
17:51:25 <zzo38> alise: Now I understand.
17:51:39 <Vorpal> alise, of course. I realise that is somewhat tricky
17:51:48 <zzo38> But it means they need to make mathematics papers that are public domain and freely available
17:51:49 <Vorpal> alise, at least it isn't pay-per-downloaded-paper or such afaik
17:51:57 <Vorpal> alise, as in, my action won't require them to pay more
17:52:03 <Vorpal> I think they have yearly subscription
17:52:09 <alise> Vorpal: Even that has issues, effectively imposing a minimum age limit on reading research papers; getting into university at an early age (a) sucks and (b) is extraordinarily difficult.
17:52:27 <zzo38> You shouldn't need the IEEE to do these things!
17:52:27 <alise> Open access is incredibly important.
17:52:30 <alise> It's just a shame it's not universal.
17:52:39 <Vorpal> alise, and when I'm done at university it will be harder again
17:52:58 <alise> Vorpal: Unless you become a prof. Which has the issue of being... difficult.
17:53:09 <Vorpal> alise, anyway, for math isn't ACM more prestigious than IEEE?
17:53:10 <alise> Although you do get tenure :P
17:53:14 <Vorpal> though I can access ACM too
17:53:17 <alise> Vorpal: Dude, ACM isn't mathematics.
17:53:26 <alise> You mean the AMS, presumably.
17:53:35 <Vorpal> alise, what does the M in ACM stand for?
17:53:41 <alise> Computing Machinery
17:53:54 <Vorpal> alise, what exactly does tenure mean btw?
17:53:57 <alise> (IEEE is about *electronic engineering* of all things; for some perverted reason computing counts as related to electricity.)
17:54:05 <alise> Vorpal: Tenure commonly refers to life tenure in a job and specifically to a senior academic's contractual right not to have his or her position terminated without just cause.
17:54:11 <alise> tl;dr "You're a prof. You can't get fired."
17:54:28 <Vorpal> alise, hm I don't know if that is true in Sweden
17:54:30 <alise> You can publish whatever crap you want as long as you don't, like, rape someone.
17:54:32 <Vorpal> I never heard of such stuff here
17:54:42 <alise> It is a bit of a ridiculous system.
17:54:50 <Vorpal> alise, and is not in use here afaik
17:55:09 <alise> So your processors actually do things? WEIRD :P
17:55:28 <alise> [[Professor - Requires a PhD degree, a strong publication record, proven teaching skills, and supervision as main supervisor of PhD students which have successfully obtained their PhD. Similar to a tenured, senior, full professor in the USA.]]
17:55:32 <alise> maybe just de facto tenure, then
17:56:59 <Vorpal> alise, and from observation I believe that the main drive in a professor is avoiding students and somehow get away with just doing research
17:57:17 <alise> Sounds pretty good to me :P
17:57:24 <alise> http://www.barnorama.com/wp-content/gallery/5demotivator/31.jpg
17:57:29 <alise> Vorpal: SWEDEN WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN FOR THIS.
17:57:30 <Vorpal> alise, from what I understand it is rather hard to get away with
17:57:43 <alise> Jätte mumsig MY ASS.
17:57:46 <Vorpal> alise, huh, I never seen that
17:58:01 <Vorpal> alise, that was obscene
17:58:06 <Vorpal> (the combination I meant)
17:58:12 <Vorpal> I refuse to translate it.
17:58:43 <alise> Gahaha (Translated myself)
17:58:47 <Vorpal> alise, notice the blue label, translates to "American taste"
17:59:02 <Vorpal> alise, well it isn't obscene on it's own. Just when combined with "my ass" as you did.
17:59:14 <alise> American taste my ass.
17:59:19 <Vorpal> (though not exactly gramatically correct)
18:00:35 <alise> They may actually have managed to make bacon awful. A previously unheard of feat.
18:00:56 <Vorpal> alise, I don't think it was a Swedish invention
18:01:02 <Vorpal> just an example of the idea
18:01:08 <alise> IT'S YOUR FAULT ALL YOUR FAULT
18:01:16 <Vorpal> alise, also how can you know what it tastes like without trying it?
18:01:51 <Vorpal> alise, I mean, americans invented squeezeable cheese. That is even worse.
18:01:51 <alise> Dude, it's a *squeeze bottle* with cheapl-=
18:01:56 <alise> Dude, it's a *squeeze bottle* with cheap-looking packaging,
18:02:03 <alise> advertising *an actual replacement for bacon* coming out of the little hole.
18:02:07 <alise> Not even "bacon flavouring".
18:02:12 <alise> Squeeze out bacon!
18:02:16 <alise> There is no question that it is terrible.
18:03:15 <Vorpal> alise, this is worse. By far: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easy_Cheese
18:03:40 <alise> No, I'm pretty sure squeezed bacon is going to taste worse than squeezed cheese.
18:04:00 <alise> At least the texture of squeezed cheese will be *SOMETHING* like cheese.
18:04:08 <Vorpal> alise, depends on what cheese
18:04:16 <Vorpal> alise, cheddar? No way
18:04:21 <alise> "Although sometimes called "aerosol cheese", its container is not actually an aerosol spray can, because the cheese does not combine with the propellant (nitrogen) to turn into a fine mist upon being sprayed." ;; THIS WOULD BE HILARIOUS
18:04:29 <Vorpal> some soft cheeses will be a bit similar
18:04:49 <alise> Vorpal: Cheddar is quite a soft solid. It's not rock-hard, crispy, or anything.
18:04:55 <alise> Bacon is always at least slightly CRISPY.
18:06:02 <alise> 2010-09-29 17:34:22 (821 KB/s) - `debian-L1-hurd-i386-DVD1.iso' saved [4525166592/4525166592]
18:06:11 <alise> Length: 4525166592 (4.2G) [application/x-iso9660-image]
18:06:25 <Vorpal> <alise> Vorpal: Cheddar is quite a soft solid. It's not rock-hard, crispy, or anything. <-- that varies between types of cheeses
18:06:30 <Vorpal> there are some very hard ones
18:06:40 <Vorpal> harder than hard cheddar even (which is already quite a hard one)
18:06:54 <Vorpal> now, bbl, food (sadly without squeezed bacon)
18:07:32 <alise> Vorpal: I'M ABOUT TO INSTALL DEBIAN GNU/HURD IN A VM
18:10:03 <alise> http://i.imgur.com/e8UPJ.png
18:11:03 <alise> "The Rescue disk CANNOT be used for system recovery."
18:11:21 <alise> Haha, it actually uses Linux to unpack baseGNU.tgz onto the partition.
18:12:00 <alise> Wow, it starts with an image of Tux with a beercan.
18:14:17 <alise> your definition of usable always seems to be linux
18:14:26 <alise> Gregor used it for a while
18:16:03 <alise> "Linux or OS X or maybe a BSD", then.
18:20:55 <zzo38> Writing programs in TeX can easily confuse the syntax highlighter
18:21:41 <zzo38> Forth codes can do that, too.
18:22:24 <nooga> but not exactly usable
18:24:00 <zzo38> Please review this program: http://sprunge.us/jLSD
18:24:54 <zzo38> alise: Yes to what question?
18:25:03 <alise> Yes to the program.
18:25:35 <zzo38> Do you think it is workable?
18:25:55 <zzo38> I have tried a few Underload programs and it does works.
18:26:37 <zzo38> Although sometimes there is error due to capacity of TeX
18:27:21 <zzo38> Also, each "S" command sends output to a separate line in the output file, instead of all on one line, how Underload is meant to.
18:28:49 <zzo38> Other than that it works perfectly OK as far as I can tell.
18:29:50 <alise> I'd recommend rendering the result rather than using an output file, for extra coolness.
18:30:00 <zzo38> Now can you learn?
18:30:24 <zzo38> alise: Yes, however, some programs run infinite loops, so that is why it won't work to render the result.
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18:35:11 <zzo38> I have even heard of a BASIC interpreter written in TeX
18:36:16 <zzo38> What's that about Pushkin?
18:37:52 <zzo38> alise: It was something in Godel, Escher, Bach. Someone said that line, after mishearing someone reading the book that the story they are in said something
18:38:27 <Vorpal> <alise> Vorpal: I'M ABOUT TO INSTALL DEBIAN GNU/HURD IN A VM <-- why not natively?
18:39:21 <zzo38> I would also like some review of this game: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/cgacoll.zip
18:39:22 <nooga> zzo38: call the interpreter jLSD
18:39:30 <alise> You do realise Hurd doesn't even support USB? :P
18:39:45 <alise> I think my DVD is corrupt or something. I'm gonna try the mini install CD.
18:39:46 <nooga> zzo38: how do i run this game under linux?
18:39:48 <alise> All those 4 gigs for nuthin'.
18:39:56 <alise> nooga: you can't, linux isn't usable
18:40:08 <Vorpal> alise, torrent it? That tends to have better error checking. Though I doubt anyone would see a hurd dvd
18:40:23 <alise> Vorpal: It's actually based on Debian woody, despite coming out late last year.
18:40:30 <alise> Woody is from *2002*.
18:40:42 <alise> Now consider how obsolete Debian stable releases become in their lifetime.
18:40:43 <zzo38> nooga: Probably best using a DOS emulator. Although if you want, you can try to recompile it using FreeBASIC (which would require modifying the programs).
18:40:49 <alise> The release after, sarge, came in 2005.
18:41:00 <alise> By that time, woody would have been hopelessly, comically outdated, as old-release-schedule Debian releases did.
18:41:05 <alise> Now consider it in *late 2009*.
18:41:20 <Vorpal> alise, still beats mastodon
18:41:36 <alise> Vorpal: Except mastodon is designed to be retro and is actually maintained -- or, well, was when anyone used it.
18:42:04 <zzo38> Are Debian going to use names from Toy Story 3 in the future?
18:42:49 <alise> Not many new "characters" in 3 had names...
18:43:02 <Vorpal> alise, upgrading X while running X. How insane is that?
18:43:11 <Vorpal> so far I noticed no issues with that
18:43:17 <Vorpal> and I haven't restarted X yet
18:43:40 <nooga> zzo38: i dont know how to play some of these
18:44:00 <zzo38> nooga: What questions do you have specific?
18:44:06 <zzo38> I can try to answer you
18:44:40 <alise> Toy Story 3 is awesome btw.
18:44:56 <Vorpal> <zzo38> nooga: Probably best using a DOS emulator. Although if you want, you can try to recompile it using FreeBASIC (which would require modifying the programs). <-- which programs?
18:45:35 <zzo38> Vorpal: They would require modifying the .BAS programs to make them work properly under FreeBASIC. Although a DOS emulator (or another computer with DOS) will work, too.
18:46:14 <Vorpal> zzo38, I asked "which programs"
18:46:17 <nooga> now i found the doc
18:46:22 <zzo38> nooga: I can explain STROKER:
18:46:33 <Vorpal> zzo38, as in, what do the .BAS programs do
18:46:34 <zzo38> (The doc doesn't explain everything yet, unfortunately. It is not finish)
18:47:06 <zzo38> STROKER game you push space bar, arrow keys (you can step on each space only once), and then if you make that no rows contain both green and red blocks, then you win.
18:47:14 <zzo38> Vorpal: The .BAS programs do game program.
18:47:40 <alise> Vorpal: Game programs.
18:47:45 <zzo38> (Except CGACOLL.BAS, which just calculates the size of the files)
18:48:03 <Vorpal> alise, like... RPG? Card games? Racing games? text adventure?
18:48:05 <zzo38> Vorpal: There are many kinds of games.
18:48:52 <Vorpal> alise, why not implement USB support in Hurd
18:49:13 <alise> because they're too busy wanking over their amazing design and... doing... something that i'm not sure exactly what it is
18:49:21 <alise> besides, doesn't your bios provide PS/2 compatibility?!
18:49:24 <alise> just bring your ISA video card!
18:49:31 <Vorpal> alise, aha, it is like tenured profs
18:49:35 <Vorpal> they don't do anything
18:49:38 <alise> COREBOOT(not-TM) Optimised!
18:49:39 <zzo38> Vorpal: The program ELEMENTA is a implementation of a card game.
18:49:47 <alise> "not-TM" linking to a rant on why trademarks are evil, naturally!
18:49:52 <Vorpal> alise, it actually said that?
18:50:07 <alise> the hurd guys tend to be the crazies more than the zealots :P
18:50:09 <Vorpal> zzo38, any RPGs or such?
18:51:39 <zzo38> Maybe the STARWARS game counts, sort of...
18:52:02 <Vorpal> zzo38, I don't have DOS handy btw
18:52:12 <Vorpal> and I don't plan to code any basic
18:52:31 <zzo38> The STARWARS program is a two player game, it is the only two players game in the package
18:52:42 <alise> Vorpal: they work with DOSBox, usually
18:52:45 <alise> zzo38's basic games
18:52:54 <alise> Hurd uses its own extended version of ext2. :)
18:53:02 <nooga> zzo38: sovminga is quite amusing
18:53:11 <Vorpal> oh, two player, not really possible to try it atm then
18:53:14 <nooga> extended version of extended
18:53:16 <zzo38> (I got the rules from a paper that described it as a sort of RPG, but it isn't really a true RPG)
18:53:21 <Vorpal> alise, well, installing dosbox... too much work
18:53:31 <alise> sudo aptitude install dosbox<ENTER>
18:53:53 <zzo38> nooga: In case you want to know, SOVMINGA is actually short for "Soviet Mind Game"
18:54:06 <nooga> zzo38: looks like normal tetris
18:54:21 <alise> It's funny because Tetris comes from Soviet Russia.
18:54:34 <zzo38> nooga: It is, although there are some options you can change which make it a bit different from normal Tetris.
18:54:39 <Vorpal> alise, and yeah, too much work.
18:54:52 <alise> Vorpal: Yes, because six lines is work.
18:54:57 <alise> That's six lines including the actual starting of the game.
18:55:06 <alise> And they can be typed without even touching the mouse.
18:57:32 <zzo38> The program GIVEAWAY is actually a solitaire chess variant
18:57:55 <zzo38> But COLORSPI is one which I would like you to try
18:58:30 <zzo38> Vorpal: Because it is DOS filenames
18:58:33 <nooga> i just looked at the webpage of mastodon
18:58:42 <nooga> no links, no download, nothing
18:58:47 <Vorpal> zzo38, they are case insensitive afaik. No need to write them upper case
18:58:54 <Vorpal> lower case or mixed case would work just as well
18:58:58 <alise> Vorpal: DIR lists them in uppercase.
18:59:14 <zzo38> Vorpal: I know but I prefer to type them in uppercase
18:59:16 <Vorpal> alise, I'm aware of that, I don't think that is a justification
18:59:32 <alise> Vorpal: For the same reason, Lisp and Scheme functions are rendered in upper-case.
18:59:36 <alise> For instance, CALL-WITH-CURRENT-CONTINUATION.
19:00:06 <zzo38> All of these game programs are public domain, do as you like with it.
19:00:13 <Vorpal> alise, not in most docs I have seen iirc. But yes quite commonly in error messages and such
19:00:47 <alise> Vorpal: When it is available, monospaced type is preferred.
19:00:54 <alise> In all other situations, upper-case should be and is used.
19:01:04 <Vorpal> alise, R3RS seem to use lower case
19:01:22 <alise> Vorpal: it uses monospaced type.
19:01:23 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Antarctica
19:02:03 <Vorpal> why on earth is that not just integrated into the main article on Antarctica?
19:02:28 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Religion_in_Antarctica
19:02:42 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Church_buildings_in_Antarctica
19:03:21 <alise> Wow, Alcoholics Anonymous were there.
19:03:53 <Vorpal> alise, I can only presume they somehow generated these for all continents or such
19:04:04 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Church_buildings_in_Antarctica
19:04:19 <Vorpal> alise, well and then someone used that when it existed
19:05:11 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Las_Estrellas Civilian settlement in Antarctica.
19:06:02 <Vorpal> alise, strange they had so many fires down there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapel_of_the_Snows both the original and the temp replacement burned
19:06:12 <alise> They're FIRES OF COLD.
19:06:49 -!- tombom has joined.
19:08:13 <alise> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Villa_Las_Estrellas.jpg
19:08:41 <alise> GNU Emacs mostly does work, however there are a few issues.
19:08:41 <alise> dired on a directory hangs. (Use C-g C-g to break the unresponsive operation.)
19:08:41 <alise> http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/open_issues/emacs.html
19:08:48 <Vorpal> alise, yeah, but that must be in the *summer* I think
19:08:54 <Vorpal> alise, it would be a lot worse in the winter
19:08:56 <alise> Vorpal: Of course. Still...
19:09:07 <alise> Apparently there are 15 children there! (at least in summer).
19:09:24 <alise> Also internet on three computers at the school. :P
19:09:28 <Vorpal> alise, indeed. Cool to visit, sure. But not a place to live permanently
19:09:40 <Ilari_antrcomp> Well, when its cold, people tend to light fires... And those can ocassionally spread to unintentional places... :-)
19:09:48 <Vorpal> alise, yeah that seems strange. Surely the govt offices would have internet?
19:10:13 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, you would assume they built for coldness down there
19:10:23 <Vorpal> I mean, with radiators and such
19:10:42 <alise> Vorpal: Clearly not!
19:11:00 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, well yes
19:11:15 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, bad use of a lot of things can cause fires
19:12:47 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, LN2? LHe?
19:13:47 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, shouldn't that be N3?
19:14:29 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, and hrrm does any of those three substances conduct electricity?
19:14:55 <Vorpal> ah hm, then indeed I can't think of a way to start a fire using those
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19:15:51 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, indirectly: Lets say you have some sort of moving device, which if it stops operating could result in a fire hazard, Like, say, a cooling fan motor.
19:16:00 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, now LHe on it
19:16:06 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, watch the grease freeze
19:16:12 <Vorpal> and thus the thing it cooled overhead
19:16:29 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, there, fire from LHe. Though rather contrived I agree
19:16:39 <Ilari_antrcomp> OTOH, LOx is different stuff. Well, its cold. But the oxidant density wins over that by quite a margin...
19:17:30 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, shouldn't that be LO?
19:17:56 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, anyway, what do you think of my suggestion for starting fire with LHe?
19:18:54 <Ilari_antrcomp> OTOH, if you freeze the motor using that (if its electric), blocking the motion causes it to emit lots of heat, which would warm it back up...
19:20:03 <zzo38> Do you know in QBASIC? Using the SOUND command allows you to time shorter intervals than you can with the TIMER command. It is faster to check the states of the shift keys and control/alt and numlock/capslock/scrolllock than it is to check the states of the other keys.
19:20:10 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, hrrm. Either make it non-electric or provide a continuous flow of LHe so that it cools quicker than it heats up
19:20:15 <Ilari_antrcomp> Here's trick that might work: "Fix" the fuses with nails. Then connect leads to block of superconductor and pour LHe on it...
19:21:44 * Ilari_antrcomp goes to check if any new installments of "things I don't work with" series have popped up...
19:32:33 <Vorpal> Ilari_antrcomp, is there anything that can burn in an atmosphere of helium?
19:35:12 <Slereah> Helium can combine with some elements
19:35:26 <Slereah> But I don't think it would be a burning scenario
19:35:56 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium#Compounds
19:36:22 <oerjan> "Calculations show that two new compounds containing a helium-oxygen bond could be stable."
19:36:46 <oerjan> still a hypothetical, apparently
19:40:36 <zzo38> I have some music files on my computer that say this archive was downloaded from and the URL (HTTP), and not to be redistributed without permission. Well, I have not downloaded it as an archive, I have not downloaded it at that domain name, and I have not downloaded it over HTTP either.
19:40:55 <zzo38> It was downloaded over the gopher protocol (I forget the domain name)
19:42:30 <Vorpal> <Ilari_antrcomp> AFAIK, He has no stable compounds. <-- stable under what conditions?
19:42:55 <zzo38> Helium is a noble gas?
19:43:41 <oerjan> yes, but some noble gases _do_ have stable compounds, if that section is to be believed
19:43:48 <Vorpal> zzo38, yes and? Argon and iirc Xenon has some compounds
19:43:55 <oerjan> (helium and neon have no known ones)
19:44:24 <zzo38> Vorpal: I don't know, I just mentioned that it is a noble gas, in case that matters at all
19:45:10 <Vorpal> well yes it is rather inert, but not completely it seems
19:47:13 <zzo38> I'm not a chemist either, that is why I don't know, and why I ask
19:47:40 <Vorpal> well I can't help you, I have no clue why, I just know it is the case
19:48:29 <alise> I can help everyone!
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20:05:09 <Ilari_antrcomp> Ah yes, things like FOOF. Explodes on contact with water ice at about -180 degC...
20:05:51 <oerjan> i guess it is rather inert because noble gases have zero valence electrons, at not quite inert because valence electrons are only a first approximation to how an atom can react...
20:07:43 <alise> also, explodes Pentium processors
20:08:21 * oerjan isn't a chemist either but he _did_ ace his chemistry exam back in '89. standard vague recall disclaimers apply.
20:08:44 <nooga> i was 1 y old then
20:08:50 <alise> <nooga> oerjan isn't 17?!
20:08:52 * oerjan waves his cane at nooga
20:09:00 <Gregor> I was 3, but I also aced my chemistry exam.
20:09:03 <nooga> alise: i predict he could be 30+
20:09:12 <alise> nooga: the wrong end of 30+ :P
20:10:55 <zzo38> I need a machine that if you feed paper in, it will fold them, and after receiving a certain number of pages (configurable), it will place them in a window envelope.
20:11:32 <oerjan> you probably can buy one from xerox or something :D
20:12:59 <Vorpal> <Ilari_antrcomp> Ah yes, things like FOOF. Explodes on contact with water ice at about -180 degC... <-- cool, now tip the mythbusters about this
20:14:08 * oerjan recalls fluorine and oxygen are the two most electronegative elements, so no surprise really
20:14:59 <zzo38> They were doing it by email and webpages and Windows Media, and PDF files even, so I offered to do it entirely using TeX instead, so that is what I am doing.
20:15:25 <zzo38> (O, and I am also using METAFONT to create the name cards)
20:16:33 <zzo38> What should be the position of the address on the page so that it will appear in the window envelope?
20:18:07 <zzo38> If the output tray of the printer is arranged so that it drops the pages directly into the other machine, then you would have to do nothing other than put stamps and put it in the mailbox!
20:23:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:25:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Is there a simple way of interchanging columns in a file?
20:30:40 -!- wareya_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:30:49 <oerjan> well basically you have to look awkward.
20:31:23 -!- wareya has joined.
20:31:34 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ (echo 1 2 3; echo 4 5 6) | awk '{ print $2, $1, $3 }'
20:32:17 <Phantom_Hoover> And now it is a matter of working out the Sexyloop rule table symmetries...
20:32:38 <alise> Do you need symmetries if you do a dumb translation?
20:32:38 <nooga> how would you biuld an interpreter that gets program written as quite entangled and forked, looped curve ?
20:42:04 <zzo38> Is there a program for creating road maps with TeX?
20:43:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Along with a couple of substitutions, but those I can do myself.
20:46:11 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: you can do that too
20:46:32 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: always six fields?
20:47:02 <fizzie> fis@iris:~$ (echo 123456; echo abcdef) | awk -F '' '{print $5","$1","$2","$3","$4","$6;}'
20:47:44 <fizzie> Assuming you actually wanted those commas in.
20:47:47 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ echo abcdef | sed -E 's/(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)/\5\1\2\3\4\6/'
20:47:49 <alise> But yes, that works too.
20:47:59 <alise> Um, with commas in.
20:48:03 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, substituting A for 10 and B for 11 would be nice as well...
20:48:10 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I'M ON IT
20:48:26 <fizzie> The sed expression looks like a six-breasted thing, though.
20:48:52 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ echo AbcdeB | sed -E 's/(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)/\5,\1,\2,\3,\4,\6/; s/A/10/g; s/B/11/g'
20:53:17 <alise> fizzie: How much does Minecraft cost?
20:53:36 <fizzie> alise: You can buy it for 9.95 EUR during this alpha-test, and they'll say it goes up to 20 EUR later.
20:53:56 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: It's server-based.
20:54:15 <alise> Damn them for creating a multiplayer game!!1213134853
20:54:35 <fizzie> Also, perl -ne 'chomp; $_ = join(",", split //); s/([AB])/"1".chr(ord($1)-17)/eg; print; print "\n";' is obviously far preferable and cleaner than the simple sed expression.
20:54:36 <alise> fizzie: My brain must be broken; when I saw Google spit out £8.58 my first thought was "wow, that's a lot".
20:56:52 <fizzie> I'm not sure whether the multiplayer servers (at the moment) actually check for account validity, just the servers the launcher uses to download the actual game bits from. But the official multiplayer servers probably will at some point.
20:57:12 <alise> I think Hawking may have a slight problem with cinemas.
20:57:26 <fizzie> There's something like a dozen third-party servers, but I'm not sure if those support the current Alpha client or just the old "Classic" one.
20:57:41 <fizzie> (I've just been playing with myself.)
20:58:03 <alise> The two mini-comics in http://xkcd.com/798/ are amusing.
20:58:14 <alise> The use of phi for both properties is confusing and annoying.
20:58:21 <alise> `addquote <fizzie> (I've just been playing with myself.)
20:58:24 <alise> Nothing is too low-brow for HackEgo.
20:58:38 <HackEgo> 230|<fizzie> (I've just been playing with myself.)
20:59:17 <fizzie> In the end I did buy it, anyway.
20:59:33 <alise> BUT WHERE IS YOUR MONEY NOW
21:00:45 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: the main practical upshot of this manual. the following parts, written in c, or where commands intended to be less than a label, to select every second bit of the format created by the compiler or optimizer thinks that such a stack existed, because it's inside the main control-flow command in other programming languages.
21:00:55 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic* irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
21:01:05 <fungot> Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics)
21:01:22 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: no mess and fresh juice anytime!
21:01:45 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: i didn't know you could even do that.
21:02:12 <alise> fungot: WHAT ABOUT THE MESS OF FRESH JUICES
21:02:13 <fungot> alise: gentlemen. i never thought i'd see the day. hail ikthor! you have a gamer card with us?
21:02:20 <alise> most of it is just verbatim
21:02:55 <fizzie> It is a bit verbatimy, yes. I think I should've used a lower maximum n-gram order, it was a pretty small data set.
21:03:06 <fizzie> fungot: Can't you, you know, jazz it up a bit?
21:03:07 <fungot> fizzie: my parents are coming over tonight. i don't know if i can be friends with a zombie lover. you will take in scenic vistas, within view of majestic caribou... hey! maybe we could trade off, you could race, then me...
21:04:31 <fizzie> It is sort of multi-channel-capable; but is that really a place that'd appreciate such a noisy bot?
21:05:05 <alise> ##gameoflife so sold out when it changed name >__>
21:05:33 <oerjan> alise: i _vaguely_ recall it was my fault. despite me never being there :D
21:05:43 <alise> PHANTOM_HOOVER IS THE CRIMINAL
21:06:31 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Any objections to me moving it back? 'cuz the old name is SO more awesome :P
21:07:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Given the only person in it is Ilari, it makes no difference.
21:11:32 <oerjan> so what's game of life in finnish, anyway.
21:12:14 <fizzie> Which is a bit boring. ("peli" is just generically "game".)
21:15:47 -!- cheater99 has changed nick to cheater100.
21:18:55 <alise> "Thanks, Elliot." --Robert Nemiroff, editor of Astronomy Picture of the Day, in response to an email where the only statement of my name was in the From field, spelled correctly.
21:19:00 <alise> WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
21:22:35 <oerjan> wtf http://i.imgur.com/Wqqxv.jpg
21:28:43 <alise> There is a Wikipedia article called "Libertarianism (metaphysics)".
21:30:09 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:33:15 <Gregor> The free market controls MY gravity.
21:34:10 <alise> Gregor: Hi, I'm 1000g. I'm currently taking over 1g.
21:34:36 <Vorpal> I wonder what happens if you mix hydrazine with fluorine? Or if that doesn't do anything interesting, why not mix it with caesium instead
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21:35:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover.
21:37:29 <zzo38> I had an idea of a context making computer game, with topics you have to use, the topics are the titles of two Wikipedia pages selected at random.
21:37:42 <zzo38> (Using the [[Special:Random]] function)
21:41:41 <oerjan> a computer cannot actually _understand_ the topics...
21:41:58 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I HOPE YOU'RE READING THIS
21:42:10 <zzo38> No... the judge posts the topics and tells the people to make a game with this, and then the judge tells how closely it matches the topic
21:42:24 <alise> *contest, surely, not context.
21:42:32 <oerjan> zzo38: oh... what alise said
21:42:47 <zzo38> Yes, I do mean "contest"
21:44:20 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lerner and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpang_Pulai_Interchange
21:44:29 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I HOPE YOU'RE READING MY BEAUTIFUL HATE POETRY
21:44:35 <oerjan> i see some problems there :D
21:44:59 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: David Lerner is driving on the Simpang Pulai Interchange. But the Malaysian government don't want him there!
21:45:07 <alise> Drive and shoot the enemy cars while avoiding the donkeys.
21:45:13 <oerjan> alise: wait David Lerner looks like a hate poet...
21:46:01 <alise> Pretty sure Phantom_Hoover's client is lagged to hell, but I was referring to this in ##gameoflife: http://pastie.org/1189862.txt?key=vgenivuit5vq7guwwqoxa
21:46:08 <alise> (He is busy pasting Paradise Lost into #b3s23.)
21:46:29 <alise> It is the greatest work of poetry.
21:46:40 <alise> And the even better work of HATE POETRY.
21:47:54 <oerjan> alise: i think the game should involve orangutans too
21:48:25 <nooga> i'm studying something called "Informatyka" which would directly translate to "Informatics"
21:48:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:48:41 <alise> "the literary world
21:48:43 <alise> sucks dead dog dick" -- David Lerner, "Mein Kampf"
21:48:45 <alise> "I want people to hear my poetry and
21:48:49 <alise> I want people to hear my poetry and
21:48:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:48:55 <nooga> should i write "Computer Science" in my english CV?
21:49:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:49:10 <nooga> instead of "Informatics"?
21:49:49 <alise> is the subject computer science?
21:50:04 <alise> Informatics (academic field), a broad academic field encompassing information science, information technology, algorithms, and social science
21:50:04 <alise> Computer science, the study of complex systems, information and computation using applied mathematics, electrical engineering and software engineering techniques.
21:50:04 <alise> Information science, the study of the processing, management, and retrieval of information
21:50:08 <alise> so informatics is a sort of supersubject...
21:50:17 <alise> nooga: what you've primarily been studying is CS, right?
21:50:24 <alise> if so, i'd write Computer Science
21:50:30 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatics_(academic_field) ;; wut
21:50:48 <nooga> CS is called Informatyka in Polish
21:51:23 <nooga> like Matematyka -> Mathematics
21:51:39 <alise> doing a literal word-by-word translation is silly, so if informatyka means CS, then write Computer Science.
21:51:56 <nooga> but what is Informatics then?
21:52:40 <alise> some supersubject of CS that probably involves very little CS
21:52:46 <alise> about... systems and information
21:52:47 <alise> definitely not CS :P
21:53:15 <alise> nooga: just say computer science.
21:55:53 <nooga> computer science sounds cheesy
21:56:09 <nooga> a science of repairing computers
21:56:14 <alise> nooga: dude, it's the name of the subject.
21:56:24 <alise> nobody knows what the hell informatics means :P
21:56:41 <alise> nooga: "computing science" has gained a little bit of traction but nothing even nearly serious enough for any CV-reader not to think of it as a stupid error
21:56:55 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science :P
21:58:36 <Vorpal> alise, if you can get at this somehow, I recommend this: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja00893a004 it's just absurd.
21:58:47 <Vorpal> (university proxy, but result is water marked...)
21:58:51 <alise> Vorpal: yes, you looked up the blog post like me :P
21:58:54 <alise> and found the reference to that
21:59:07 <alise> Purchase This Content
21:59:07 <alise> Choose from the following options:
21:59:07 <alise> $30.00 for 48 hours of access
21:59:09 <alise> what a great price!
21:59:09 <Vorpal> alise, and I managed to use university proxy to extract that paper
21:59:22 <alise> £18.98 for *two days* of access to a research paper
21:59:31 <alise> it's so cheap it gives me heartburn.
21:59:40 <Vorpal> alise, ouch, I wonder what they pay for the subscription....
21:59:44 <Vorpal> since it is campus wide
21:59:46 <alise> Vorpal: £lots/year
21:59:51 <alise> in technical units.
22:00:09 <alise> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=The+Chemical+Properties+of+Dioxygen+Difluoride#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&source=hp&q=The+Chemical+Properties+of+Dioxygen+Difluoride+filetype%3Apdf&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=7eab77b8d2d38738
22:00:14 <alise> "[PDF] Thermodynamic Properties of Dioxygen Difluoride (OZF2) and ..."
22:00:17 <alise> Not the same, Google.
22:00:47 <alise> Nope, can't find it.
22:01:15 <alise> Vorpal: How many hail Marys would I have to do to get your PDF copy? What if I used Tipp-Ex on my screen to remove your watermark? WHAT THEN
22:01:45 <Vorpal> alise, it is scanned and extremely blurry
22:02:47 <Vorpal> alise, and rather boringly written
22:03:08 <Vorpal> alise, in fact, you have to be a chemist to understand that it means what the blog post described
22:03:55 <Vorpal> alise, and sharing it with you is not worth the trouble if it comes to attention. It just isn't
22:05:37 <fizzie> Re "how much it costs", it might be something comparable to ACM Digital Library, which for the "academic institution" class has list prices for "tier 1/2/3/4/5" of 2,000/13421/14634/15322/16021 USD/year. (I can't quite find out what the different tiers actually mean, though.)
22:05:54 <Gregor> I am SO weird looking.
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22:08:41 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: http://pastie.org/1189862.txt?key=vgenivuit5vq7guwwqoxa
22:09:13 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride.php
22:09:22 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: READ IT BUT DID NOT VERBALLY APPRECIATE MY POETIC TALENT
22:09:50 <alise> ;_; twatbasket is already on urban dictionary
22:09:55 <alise> That was my primary innovation!
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22:24:15 <Vorpal> alise: 4O₂F₂ + H₂S +2HF + 4O₂ + SF₆ + 432.9 kcal
22:24:30 <Vorpal> if units(1) is correct that is fucking 1.8124657 MJ
22:25:31 <Vorpal> also "contradistinction" is a nice word
22:25:57 <oerjan> i recall something about the cal unit being ambiguous
22:26:55 <oerjan> one of the definitions being 1000 times the other
22:28:03 <Vorpal> oerjan, it is however likely in this case to be correct
22:28:03 <fizzie> Yes, but I don't think it's unambiguous if you have the k in there.
22:28:09 <oerjan> about 4.2 and 4200 joules respectively, says wikipedia
22:29:20 <Vorpal> "In contact with a Pt sheet covered with PtF4, dioxygen difluoride exploded at 160°K."
22:29:21 <oerjan> hm probably not, 4.2 gives about what Vorpal said
22:29:42 <zzo38> I win a lot of points at this Bumping Pachinko game
22:29:42 <alise> oerjan: Calories are a dietary unit being 1 kcal.
22:29:47 <alise> You won't see them in science.
22:30:12 <fizzie> "In scientific contexts, the name "calorie" refers to the gram calorie, and this unit has the symbol cal. Metric prefixes are used with this name and symbol, so that the kilogram calorie is known as the "kilocalorie" and has the symbol kcal." -- says the 'pedia too.
22:30:46 <fizzie> I don't think you'll ever really see the k prefix with the larger sort of Cal.
22:32:46 <alise> http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2009/06/11/things_i_wont_work_with_thioacetone.php
22:33:21 * oerjan vaguely recalls a similar article about methyl mercury
22:33:33 <Vorpal> oerjan, sounds about as absurd
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22:37:20 <oerjan> hm he only mentions it in passing on that site
22:38:07 <Vorpal> "When added to Dry Ice, dioxygen difluoride did not react and was only absorbed by the solid. Addition of acetone to this mixture resulted in sparking accompanied by an explosion."
22:38:15 <oerjan> "Dimethyl mercury I will not get within yards of, for very well-founded reasons."
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22:39:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Dimethyl mercury is just CH3HgCH3. Chemistry is terrifying...
22:39:56 <fizzie> Thioacetone sounds like something related to thiotimoline.
22:40:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Both of those compounds are only a few atoms away from propane.
22:41:04 <Phantom_Hoover> As with thiols, which are alcohols with sulphur rather than oxygen stuck on.
22:44:10 <nooga> can you make vodka using them?
22:48:05 <nooga> ethanol is also toxic
22:49:37 <oerjan> wait those 432.9 kcal are for a _single_ set of molecules?
22:52:32 <alise> iirc there was some detail
22:52:47 <alise> oerjan: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1148591
22:53:00 <alise> that's actually per mol
22:53:14 <alise> so not that bad :D
22:54:12 <oerjan> i guess per molecule that would be more than a nuclear bomb...
22:56:42 <oerjan> "They offer it in 100g, 500g, and 1 kilo amounts, which is interesting, because I don't think a kilo of dioxygen difluoride has ever existed." :D
23:02:14 <Vorpal> oerjan, not at once at least
23:02:20 <Vorpal> oerjan, I do think it might have existed in total
23:02:46 <Vorpal> considering how many fucked up experiments that paper he referred to did
23:03:22 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, rad? That's nothing. sr is way worse
23:03:31 <Vorpal> at least radians make sense
23:03:53 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, okay but sr is a crazy unit
23:04:06 <Vorpal> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steradian
23:04:14 <Phantom_Hoover> mol and rad are just unitlessness masquerading otherwise.
23:04:33 <Ilari> Dimethyl mercury is quite frightening stuff. Highly toxic. Absorbs through skin. Penetrates latex gloves...
23:05:28 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, dimensionless too
23:05:50 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well that too :P
23:07:46 <Ilari> Stuff that explodes on contact with water ice in cryogenic temperatures is sure nice stuff...
23:08:36 <Vorpal> Ilari, now I want someone to try FOOF and cesium
23:08:50 <Vorpal> I want to watch the resulting youtube video
23:09:18 <Ilari> FOOF and surfur compounds would probably be good enough...
23:10:07 <Vorpal> Ilari, but I wonder if FOOF and cesium would be worse or not
23:11:12 <Ilari> Also, HF as product... Fun.
23:11:25 <oerjan> sulphur is also electronegative, isn't it, it's just below oxygen in the table
23:11:48 <alise> <Phantom_Hoover> mol and rad: my most hated units. ;; radians are sweet
23:11:55 <oerjan> so clearly it's not just about distance on that scale
23:11:56 <alise> but yeah, unitless
23:12:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Effing Americans and your stubborn refusal to accept sane measurements for everything.
23:12:28 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: what, calories or joules?
23:12:37 <alise> joules are clearly superior by virtue of SI
23:12:56 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: do you also propose that americans measure people in feet and inches, roads in miles, but everything else in metric?
23:13:03 <alise> our system is *fucked up*
23:13:22 <Ilari> I would want to see page that documented FFU electrical units (thankfully, they were probably just too crazy and died).
23:13:34 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, that kcal figure was for *a scientific measurement*.
23:13:47 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: err, i was supporting joules
23:13:50 <alise> also, it's from the 60s
23:13:52 <alise> there's your excuse
23:14:07 <Ilari> Ah yeah... Nutrion is not a science (at least judging from behaviour of "scientists" of that field).
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23:16:06 <Phantom_Hoover_> So we get on the order of 10^30 joules of energy per *mole* of HS and FOOF reacting.
23:16:37 <Ilari> Haha... The very first sentence of this article (happens to be about nutrion) is completely wrong...
23:16:57 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover_: sheesh read the corrections above
23:16:59 <Ilari> That's way too high...
23:17:15 <oerjan> the 433 kcal _is_ for moles
23:17:45 <Ilari> For 1 mole of FOOF or for 4 moles of FOOF reacting with H2S?
23:19:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:19:05 <Ilari> Wow, and when the first sentence is completely wrong, one might think that the rest of article is full of misinformation. Indeed it is...
23:21:01 <Ilari> 1 mole of FOOF is 70g... So 4 moles would be 280g.
23:21:18 <Ilari> Just one I ran across...
23:21:19 <oerjan> tsar bomba was about 210000 TJ, says wp
23:22:30 <Ilari> Well, there's section about smoking... That's probably the only one that's not completely wrong...
23:23:32 <oerjan> so way too high indeed
23:24:02 <Ilari> And as scale, Sun emits about 4 * 10^26 joules of energy per second...
23:24:55 <oerjan> so basically if the numbers had been right we'd have been toast after that experiment
23:26:02 <Vorpal> <Ilari> Well, there's section about smoking... That's probably the only one that's not completely wrong... <-- smooking what?
23:26:09 <Vorpal> I just had a horrible mental image
23:26:14 <nooga> pigs fly and the hell is frozen, i applied for a job of C# programmer
23:26:24 <Vorpal> a guy smooking a cigar with FOOF
23:26:30 <Vorpal> that's a horrible mental picture
23:27:40 <Ilari> nooga: Explodes on contact with water in cryogenic temperatures...
23:27:56 <Ilari> (of course, water is ice in that temperatures).
23:28:04 <Ilari> Its about 70g/mol... So 280g...
23:29:53 <Phantom_Hoover_> Let's see, the specific heat capacity of water is 4.18kJ/kg/°C
23:32:25 <Ilari> Sulfur is group 16, so it tends to form two bonds... Hydrogen tends to form one...
23:32:56 <Ilari> IIRC, that's more than TNT.
23:34:11 <Ilari> Add to that kinetics and thermodynamics that tend to favor highly rapid reaction...
23:34:33 <Phantom_Hoover_> From this I conclude that 72g of the reactants will boil a litre of water at 0°C.
23:35:27 <Ilari> Just heat to 100 degC... Boiling water takes LOTS of energy...
23:35:39 <nooga> so smoking FOOF in a cigarette would do nothing
23:35:56 <nooga> since cigarettes burn in ca 700 Celcius degs
23:36:12 <Ilari> IIRC, its on order of 2000kJ/kg to boil water...
23:37:04 <Ilari> And FOOF does something nasty in way below zero celsius or so...
23:38:31 <Ilari> And wonder what the compounds with six oxygens and two fluorines are like... :-)
23:41:02 <Ilari> I wouldn't be surprised if FOOF and LOx mixed together would explode before LOx boiled off...
23:42:35 <nooga> drop sodium in a toilet
23:44:12 <nooga> my grandpa was charged for sabotage by soviets when he did this on his university
23:46:29 <Vorpal> <nooga> so smoking FOOF in a cigarette would do nothing
23:46:29 <Vorpal> <nooga> since cigarettes burn in ca 700 Celcius degs
23:46:40 <Vorpal> nooga, probably very toxic
23:46:49 <Vorpal> it would explode before that
23:46:55 <nooga> cigarettes are already very toxic
23:47:01 <Vorpal> it would evaporate and/or explode before that
23:47:19 <Vorpal> nooga, not in the "kills you dead right now" kind of way
23:47:22 <nooga> i thought FOOF explodes only in contact with water in v. low temperatures
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23:47:35 <Vorpal> nooga, it explodes in contact with about everything
23:47:50 <nooga> way better than H-bomb
23:47:53 <Vorpal> nooga, and it isn't stable at higher temperatures
23:48:07 <Vorpal> so that is why only low temperatures are discussed
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23:51:27 <Ilari> There are some other compounds that are erm... Somewhat unstable in that "Things I won't work with" category.
23:51:55 <Ilari> The things that don't even need you to look at them wrong to explode...
23:53:05 <olsner> hmm, but chemical reactions seem pretty lame anyway
23:53:13 <olsner> at least compared to the nucular ones
23:53:46 <Ilari> There are three kinds of exploding compounds: One that require proper ignition, things that explode if you look at them wrong and things that explode even if you don't look at them wrong...
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