tag, then filter the link to the title < 1286301213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The difference between self-interpreters and meta-circular interpreters is that the latter restate language features in terms of the features themselves, instead of actually implementing them. (Circular definitions, in other words; hence the name). They depend on their host environment to give the features meaning." < 1286301215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's a direct quote < 1286301229 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way i can know what the link was to, while still being able to deny having received a link < 1286301230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, Wikipedia, it's actually Reginald Braithwaite who I disagree with < 1286301245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ingenious < 1286301252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are some sites I don't even want to send TCP requests too < 1286301254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1286301263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the firewall here is somewhat insane < 1286301273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone's been lying to the pavement again < 1286301291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, what raganwald meant there is < 1286301297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"difference between them and REGULAR self-interps" < 1286301298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure < 1286301302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1286301305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could just be lack of context < 1286301324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a smart guy, so < 1286301346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I want to write an Underload quine where every string is treated either entirely as data, or entirely as code < 1286301365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, either S is never run on it, or ^ is never run on it < 1286301376 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun < 1286301407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably wouldn't fit into one line of IRC, though < 1286301465 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have someone that goes through your web access logs seeing which domains you've accessed? < 1286301480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes in theory < 1286301490 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bastages < 1286301639 0 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286301685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the firewall's stopped portscanning me < 1286301807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, all my ports are closed to anyone but 127.0.0.1. Why do you care? You're a NAT, it's not like anything would happen even if the ports were open, as I don't have a public IP...) < 1286301909 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamesauce < 1286301916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda x,y:x-1,y < 1286301920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently y is not defined < 1286301922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid scoping rules < 1286301945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: INTRA-UNIVERSITY ILLEGAL FILESHARING OVER PORT 453 < 1286301976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I hadn't even thought of communicating with other people on the same subnet < 1286301978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if indeed there are any < 1286302003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they could just firewall it at the router if they cared that much? < 1286302014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, insist all traffic went to a different subnet?) < 1286302041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if k=='h': < 1286302041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : w[Y,X]=46;X-=1;w[Y,X]=64;D(0,0) < 1286302041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elif k=='l': < 1286302041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : w[Y,X]=46;X+=1;w[Y,X]=64;D(0,0) < 1286302048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what it does! < 1286302065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving the character in a roguelike < 1286302078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 is @, the characters are typical roguelike movement keys < 1286302091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know 46 off by heart, but suspect it's . based on context < 1286302096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%c",46); < 1286302105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how C is ais523's go-to calculator < 1286302114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is, yes < 1286302116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what D does :P < 1286302120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most langs don't convert between integers and characters transparently < 1286302135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, D is less obvious, especially as the params are always 0 < 1286302139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, EgoBot isnt here < 1286302147 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego? < 1286302156 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D=update display? < 1286302161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes; what are the arguments? < 1286302166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286302179 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :offset into screen to start updating at, maybe? < 1286302185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1286302201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1286302213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, is someone going to explain what Underlambda is? < 1286302242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's a language project by me < 1286302243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: here's D's definition: < 1286302245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def D(a,b): < 1286302245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for B in range(b,b+23): < 1286302245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for A in range(a,a+80): < 1286302245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s.addch(B-b,A-a,w.get((B-12,A-40),46)) < 1286302251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based around an esolang, also with the same name < 1286302251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: b/B is y, a/A is x < 1286302255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just renamed them to avoid clashes < 1286302274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where's the esolang kept, if anywhere? < 1286302282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to build an esolang that's easy to compile into other langs, and easy to compile other langs into < 1286302283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my head < 1286302383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So taking Brainfuck's niche as the standard language for proof by isomorphism? < 1286302396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nah, most langs are hard to compile /into/ BF < 1286302402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to make it work both ways < 1286302404 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamit they set off the fire alarm again < 1286302413 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :motherfuckers < 1286302414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, OK, so even better? < 1286302419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get, eventually, an automatic converter between any two esolangs < 1286302422 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits < 1286302426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopelessly inefficient, ofc, but who cares < 1286302449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my roguelike now moves around properly < 1286302453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to do scrolling < 1286302455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practicality is so boring! < 1286302457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's on an infinite plane) < 1286302462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also golfed) < 1286302466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it non-Euclidean! < 1286302477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEtHack! < 1286302505 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would capitalise the 't', but is there such a thing as non-Euclidean topology? < 1286302513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, in this game, pressing a direction key for long enough will cause you to run out of memory < 1286302516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does Python accept thin-spaces for indentation? < 1286302516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the sparse array is filled < 1286302520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :-D < 1286302535 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i think topology might be non-Euclidean by default. < 1286302541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be great if you could mix all the different space-widths in Unicode < 1286302542 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that, Euclid never touched the stuff < 1286302546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you want to see what i currently have? < 1286302553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather imagine it < 1286302557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might take a look when I'm finished < 1286302563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*when it's finished < 1286302566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's 23 lines, FWIW < 1286302571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I have a strange aversion to unreleased projects < 1286302577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unfinished < 1286302584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's finished as far as moving around goes ;) < 1286302585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to like to get things done first before an official release < 1286302588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from scrolling < 1286302598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet, provide copies of the work-in-progress to anyone who asks < 1286302615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the only programs where people frequently have asked are jettyplay, and occasionally AceHack) < 1286302631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... < 1286302631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to incorrectly assume that the rest of the world operates like that, for some reason < 1286302644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're more then, let's say, 15 characters out of the centre < 1286302648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then scroll one place < 1286302653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, we were discussing mono earlier? I seem to remember that the mono program I ran, I downloaded the source from codeplex.com < 1286302654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so X,Y are the centre < 1286302656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x,y our position < 1286302667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and both their web-links and svn links weren't working properly, so in the end I used a recursive wget < 1286302735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x<X-15:X-=1 < 1286302736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x>X+15:X+=1 < 1286302736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y-15:Y-=1 < 1286302736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y+15:Y+=1 < 1286302739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: make that faster < 1286302743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1286302744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shorter < 1286302760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that isn't working < 1286302761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1286302780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Slashdot are debating commercial breaks on television < 1286302795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was in Canada (mostly receiving US TV channels), whenever a commercial break came on I changed channel < 1286302806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and checked back a few minutes later to see if it was still there < 1286302812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it? < 1286302816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes < 1286302820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite often, actually < 1286302828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the US channels all have short, frequent breaks. < 1286302830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I do that in the UK too, except I rarely watch television there < 1286302833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tend to get stuck on the BBC < 1286302839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no BBC, so there's nowhere to run. < 1286302840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's long, frequent breaks < 1286302891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, more frequent than ours though I think < 1286302908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Star Trek, over here, tends to do the abrupt-fade-out-then-in-again that usually signals an advert break, even when there's no adverts < 1286302911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, typical in the UK is one or two minutes every 10-30 minutes, randomized < 1286302997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's random? really? < 1286302999 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286303011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, not on Sky it isn't! < 1286303011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: when I actually cared, which wasn't for very long, I didn't notice an obvious pattern < 1286303015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was on ITV < 1286303022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like 3 minutes every 15 minutes < 1286303023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could only get the terrestrial channels then < 1286303044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the adbreaks were extremely short, like 20 seconds altogether, but those were rather rare < 1286303057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely just sponsors < 1286303076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you actually bother with Sky? < 1286303098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: uh, occasionally. < 1286303101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x<X-15:X-=1 < 1286303101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x>X+15:X+=1 < 1286303101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y-15:Y-=1 < 1286303101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y+15:Y+=1 < 1286303102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly in this age of torrents? < 1286303109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't this work... < 1286303120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow decreasing x increases Y! < 1286303122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck! < 1286303129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1286303130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong sign < 1286303138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't get rid of numbers! < 1286303154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A decrement must have an equivalent increment! < 1286303157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, doesn't quite work with diagonals < 1286303170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts some random dust into the playfield to make it easier to see < 1286303187 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's overflowing! < 1286303233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, now it randomises every time :-D < 1286303241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i leave a snail trail < 1286303249 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better < 1286303341 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1286303373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: have you not seen Forte? < 1286303384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have done more than the Crawl developers could. < 1286303385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every command in that which isn't a no-op or simple I/O permanently gets rid of a number from that program < 1286303393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Made a larger-than-screen playfield that scrolls non-annoying.) < 1286303396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Forte < 1286303398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1286303399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x<X-15:X-=1 < 1286303399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x>X+15:X+=1 < 1286303399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y-5:Y-=1 < 1286303399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y>Y+5:Y+=1 < 1286303402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was not difficult! < 1286303416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NetHack scrolls like that too, but only if you're using an unusually small terminal < 1286303420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(normally there's no need) < 1286303433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, what values does it use instead of 15 and 5? I guess you're unlikely to know :P < 1286303445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not offhand < 1286303447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check < 1286303451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! :) < 1286303456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think 15 and 5 may be a bit too low < 1286303468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although 5 has the nice property that it scales well from 15 < 1286303475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(15/80)*24 = 4.5 < 1286303481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the last line is reserved for my babble) < 1286303485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1286303487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the terminal is 80x24 < 1286303489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be *23 < 1286303509 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wareya < 1286303511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so it should be 4 < 1286303512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1286303585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the code uses some sort of complex dead-reckoning for efficiency, which makes it hard to read < 1286303590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, NetHack, you micro-optimised /that/? < 1286303599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1286303705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know the simplest way to get curses to just bloomin' restore the terminal at the end? < 1286303747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it moves the screen left and right by 20 at a time if it gets within 5 of the left or right screen edge; vertically, by half the screen height (not counting topl, botl) if it gets within 2 of the screen edge < 1286303760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: endwin does that automatically, or should < 1286303768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1286303769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo() < 1286303769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endwin() < 1286303769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as your termcap's set up correctly < 1286303776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1286303778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even need echo < 1286303779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1286303806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, your code isn't identical to NetHack's code < 1286303813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pretty close < 1286303816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how surprising :P < 1286303819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know the values it uses? < 1286303825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done s/15/17/ < 1286303826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> it moves the screen left and right by 20 at a time if it gets within 5 of the left or right screen edge; vertically, by half the screen height (not counting topl, botl) if it gets within 2 of the screen edge < 1286303846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by 20 at a time? < 1286303846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh < 1286303853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 at a time is the only way to avoid disorientation < 1286303860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, edge cases are handled in the actual code, but not in that description < 1286303873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, Crawl scrolls 1 at a time, if it gets more than 0 from the centre < 1286303932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're doing it in a mix between the NetHack and Crawl styles, which are close to being opposites < 1286303958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mine's the style that doesn't give you a headache ;) < 1286303979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, I found that in Enigma, which has level-configurable scrolling, the least confusing tends to be scrolling an entire screen instantly whenever you move within a few pixels of the edge (keeping one line) < 1286304009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nethack's is especially awful if you end up holding down one of the keys at the edge < 1286304016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since your character bounces around < 1286304043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, bear in mind that NetHack levels are only 80 characters wide < 1286304051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1286304054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas mine is infinite < 1286304055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd bounce at most three times before you reached the other end of the level, no matter how small your terminal < 1286304058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and procedurally generated, hopefully < 1286304074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a roguelike < 1286304078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the function to *draw the screen* will randomly assign stuff to unassigned cells in view, I think) < 1286304080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all procedurally generated, pretty much < 1286304083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's also a golfed roguelike :P < 1286304098 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wots all this then? < 1286304104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if you could make the Mandelbrot set into a roguelike? < 1286304114 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ....... omg. < 1286304117 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YES < 1286304118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :place stairs on bits more detailed than the current zoom level < 1286304120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat xD < 1286304126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going downstairs zooms in, upstairs zooms out < 1286304127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> place stairs on bits more detailed than the current zoom level ;; you mean every bit? < 1286304130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can zoom in anywhere < 1286304137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I mean, where there's anything interesting < 1286304140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than solid black or white < 1286304145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think if you use naturals instead of silly colours, you have detail everywhere but the centre < 1286304146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rather more limited, to the "edge" of the set < 1286304148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very boring detail, but still < 1286304149 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just s/stairs/some magic/ < 1286304154 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That voodoo you do < 1286304172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unfortunately, the Mandelbrot set is a bit slow to compute. < 1286304195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember writing my own Mandelbrot program < 1286304202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, my program crashes with no message if you resize the terminal and do anything < 1286304209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you could zoom right in until you started hitting distortions due to floating point rounding < 1286304212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just refuses to run with no message if your terminal is the wrong size < 1286304218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1286304220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too big works < 1286304221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too small doesn't < 1286304239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interesting thing is, the rounding errors created little sets of their own which looked like distorted Mandelbrot sets < 1286304246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AWESOME < 1286304249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were they fractal? < 1286304260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, although not as detailed as the set itself < 1286304265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually you ended up dividing by zero < 1286304306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1286304355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< pikhq> Microsoft Word: the worst program to design web pages in, and this *includes* Malbolge. ← you know how much I hated my school's computing course? < 1286304413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1286304487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still maintain that MS Publisher is an /even worse/ program for designing web pages < 1286304544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the markup is even less semantic than Word's (tables everywhere, even for simple text), the page is normally forced to a width different from that of your actual screen (Word doesn't do /that/), and it has a habit of randomly replacing text with images because it can't figure out how to render it as HTML < 1286304607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot, cursor positioning works < 1286304641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 lines now < 1286304720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is "MS Publisher"? < 1286304729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, language? < 1286304734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I heard the name once or twice, but I have never seen it < 1286304735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you don't want to know. < 1286304735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Python :/ < 1286304737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: be glad that you don't know the answer < 1286304740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "horrible" < 1286304756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay but what role is it intended to fill? < 1286304759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all I'm asking < 1286304762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <Vorpal> ais523, what is "MS Publisher"? <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, you don't want to know. <ais523> Vorpal: be glad that you don't know the answer <alise> Vorpal: "horrible" < 1286304762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you know when you open up a PDF in the GIMP or OpenOffice Draw or something like that? < 1286304771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um, no? < 1286304779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a bunch of maybe editable text, some images, all at exact locations on the page < 1286304786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I opened pdf in inkscape, to edit some vector graphics < 1286304793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inkscape will do fine as well < 1286304803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1286304814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you can open up printed documents like that, but it isn't too useful for actually understanding the document, agreed? < 1286304816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: MS Publisher is a bunch of little Word documents arranged in absolutely-positioned boxes < 1286304819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with absolute sizes < 1286304824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can copy-paste bits of text, but not much else < 1286304830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Publisher is that in reverse < 1286304832 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :236|<Vorpal> ais523, what is "MS Publisher"? <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, you don't want to know. <ais523> Vorpal: be glad that you don't know the answer <alise> Vorpal: "horrible" < 1286304838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, actually constructing printed documents via this method < 1286304902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fun fact: I actually had a useful printed document I made this way in Publisher ages ago, but it was too hard to transfer from one laptop to another, and almost impossible to edit in Linux; nothing reads .pub files, and the .ps files it outputs are absolute abominations) < 1286304907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um what? Opening up pdfs can be useful I found it useful to open up that thing in there, the vector graphics had too thin lines, so when included in a latex document (as "Figure 1: Diagram from simulation showing current over time" or something like that) the lines were invisible. < 1286304911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so I recreated it in Excel, which was actually easier despite it being a text document) < 1286304911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful: < 1286304913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1286304924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, that's an insane way to /create/ a PDF < 1286304947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the simulation program could only print the result iirc, not save it as an image < 1286304948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i *think* your method of explaining has a few too many steps of brainpower required to interpret. < 1286304953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try using words of two syllables or less < 1286304969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: were you forced to use Publisher at school? < 1286304971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes indeed insane way to create pdfs though < 1286304979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was, but can't remember, I suspect my brain has erased memories of it < 1286304984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah. i'm talking about for Vorpal though < 1286305027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Adobe Reader always shows lines at least a pixel thick (maybe even at least 2 pixels), even if they're thinner < 1286305035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, can't you edit the text directly in publisher? < 1286305037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, because I made a PDF with zero-width lines by mistake < 1286305043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, just as you can in an opened PDF < 1286305046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my old school used it *incessantly*. < 1286305057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked fine in Reader, but broken in Sumatra < 1286305058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My old school used Publisher incestuously!" < 1286305062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I'm not sure what caused it. I was using evince to view it, and it had to be scaled to fit into the latex figure < 1286305074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I couldn't see the lines, and that trick worked perfectly < 1286305082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how Vorpal's just gone on to ignoring ais523's lines and relaying his anecdote instead < 1286305092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I didn't. < 1286305097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I did both at once < 1286305105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, maybe you failed to keep up? < 1286305113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm semi-convinced that Vorpal permanently has his scrollbar a few lines from the bottom of the screen < 1286305119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he seems to only say things said around 15-20 lines ago < 1286305120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1286305122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or his brain just works *that* slowly < 1286305132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, s/say/see/ ? < 1286305160 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal smells funny. < 1286305160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/say/reply to/ < 1286305165 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION times response < 1286305167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I did get a bit lagged when writing that long line about inkscape, and I didn't bother to read the rest until I finished that line < 1286305221 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what annoys me is people that fill up the screen with related lines they could have combined in a single message < 1286305234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think my theory's correct < 1286305236 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather read a few long lines than a lot of short ones < 1286305236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, hm indeed < 1286305238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Y'know, I've got half a mind to extend Quod Libet to handle video. < 1286305240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it's a conversational format. < 1286305241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that there wasn't a response yet, but will be soon < 1286305247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get used to it. < 1286305261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, response to what? < 1286305266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> quintopia, hm indeed <-- *you* do it all the time < 1286305268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover's message < 1286305274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably hasn't scrolled onto your screen yet < 1286305277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1286305282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh that, I ignored it < 1286305282 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, i don't complain about it do I? I just sit silently and be annoyed. < 1286305297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He sits in range at the short line lengths! < 1286305297 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making this one exception to make my peeve known and shall not mention it again < 1286305302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, my roguelike actually uses the characters to determine what objects are < 1286305304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how robust! < 1286305307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I can't sensibly claim victory in this argument because my own argument was self-contradictory < 1286305309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still hilarious < 1286305309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at the very least write a video player that actually uses MKV metadata. < 1286305311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: people don't think of things all at once < 1286305315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it speeds up conversation < 1286305316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ooh, are you coding one? < 1286305318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1286305324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, it's golfed < 1286305328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and insane < 1286305334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, MY GOD, WHY AREN'T YOU EXACTLY FOLLOWING THE CONVERSATION < 1286305336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and played on an infinite plane filled with silly enemies and silly gold < 1286305338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, cool, how extensive? < 1286305340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286305342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Umm... infinite < 1286305343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1286305350 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: speeding up conversation is exactly the part about it that annoys me. People should just be smart enough to have large gestalts < 1286305355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 lines atm < 1286305357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, can you use the money for anything? Like shops? < 1286305361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: dude, this is IRC < 1286305366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would that take too much space? < 1286305374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe. < 1286305377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be pretty boring if not < 1286305385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not aiming for any absolute limit, just trimming down code wherever possible < 1286305387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and hm, is there any specific goal or does it just go on until you die? < 1286305388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what does "gestalt" mean in that context? < 1286305408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if the latter, the term "arcade rougelike" comes to my mind < 1286305413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems rather silly < 1286305413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably the latter < 1286305417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a victory condition would be too hard < 1286305419 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the series of connective ideas from one thought to another < 1286305423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and require non-randomness of some sort < 1286305425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, an arcadelike rougelike perhaps! < 1286305433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe after you get enough gold, you can go to a special boss level < 1286305439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286305483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not just teleporting straight away IMO. Would be better to spawn a teleporter or some stairs or something next to the player < 1286305491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a ? tile which actually *is* undetermined right up until you hit it < 1286305494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quantum tile < 1286305498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286305500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, there'd be like booths every now and then < 1286305503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a quite low probability < 1286305505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you'd have to go to < 1286305517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know payphone booths? < 1286305524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286305528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather rare these days < 1286305530 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they still have those < 1286305533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a pay-TARDIS < 1286305534 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen them < 1286305537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're common over here < 1286305545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes: the portal to the boss is a pay-TARDIS < 1286305548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of no better solution < 1286305549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen one for... 5 years or such? < 1286305554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1286305563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open booth, bigger on the inside, insert coins :P < 1286305573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also has phone and internet < 1286305580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any leveling system? < 1286305591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe. < 1286305602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to weight probability: in your random selection, have more copies of one tile! < 1286305608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I feel it wouldn't be much of a rougelike without leveling and equipments and such < 1286305623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T=' $$$$$%%%!' < 1286305637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, it crashes < 1286305638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is a reasonable way to do it yes < 1286305642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endwin() unfortunately erases the error message :P < 1286305654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't have something with like 1/1000th of the probability of the another thing < 1286305668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: thankfully, i am far too lazy to have that < 1286305678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nobody would find it, the gameworld is too boring to explore _that_ long < 1286305689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1286305696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need those booth to be uncommon < 1286305721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, in my test version i have some code i didn't change when the floor tile became space, not ., and it leaves a trail of .s behind you when you walk < 1286305723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as for crashing, hm... it managed to run endwin() after it crashed? < 1286305724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i might make that an item < 1286305740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh like "red yarn" or something? < 1286305741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :World's Largest Ball of Twine < 1286305743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking < 1286305749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1286305776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a bit annoying if you don't move in a mostly straight or curving line < 1286305786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really, it just helps you find where you went < 1286305792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286305794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useful if you're looking for that booth you saw seven screens ago < 1286305810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not if you criss crossed your path a lot before maybe hm < 1286305825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, can't have everything. < 1286305835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you plan to use fixed screens? Not centering on the player all the time? < 1286305865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1286305865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x<X-17:X-=1 < 1286305866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x>X+17:X+=1 < 1286305866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y-5:Y-=1 < 1286305866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y>Y+5:Y+=1 < 1286305873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can move around your centre area, but then it scrolls outside it < 1286305874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, jumping "window" < 1286305883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it scrolls around just fine, but doesn't give you a headache (I'm looking at you, Crawl) < 1286305883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works I guess < 1286305889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286305905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I find "always-centered-on-player" isn't too bad < 1286305913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do, so nyah < 1286305918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1286305919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the +n and -n if you want that :P < 1286305929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as long as you can see what you are moving to wards < 1286305936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :towards* < 1286305949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286305954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole field is visible at all times < 1286305960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which language? < 1286305968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, unlike NetHack, there is light, and you are not hideously short-sighted < 1286305970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: python. meh. < 1286305976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286305991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that explains those "not very golf-y newlines" at least < 1286306012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :len(';') == len('\n') < 1286306024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the indentation has an effect, but i can't avoid that < 1286306030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at the start) < 1286306031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1286306032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's an if < 1286306034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a block structure < 1286306038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can't just do ; and more of them < 1286306045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first line of that function: < 1286306047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : global x,y,X,Y;w[y,x]=46;x,y=a,b;w[y,x]=64 < 1286306052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um you can, but not sure it helps that much. Remember that irc bot in python with just lambda? < 1286306062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might take more space < 1286306064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1286306113 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, w[y,x]=46 ? < 1286306120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the . < 1286306125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to move away from there < 1286306125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286306126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w is the grid < 1286306130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(world) < 1286306140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T=' $$$$$%%%!' ;; I can't actually use this, it has to be charcodes, so: < 1286306141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T=[32]*10+[36]*5+[37]*3+[33] < 1286306142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1286306157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wut" < 1286306161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~/Code/vagrant$ wc -c vagrant.py < 1286306161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :633 vagrant.py < 1286306162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell yeah < 1286306171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [x]*n = [x,x,x,x...] n of them < 1286306175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1286306178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]+[...] = [...,...] < 1286306190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ! < 1286306226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also I assume the player is @ in the best of traditions? What about giving it a completely useless pet. Wait I'm detecting feature creep. < 1286306237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah no :P < 1286306249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, those weightings are a little off. < 1286306257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD: < 1286306265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://imgur.com/JTySy.png < 1286306267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean, nethack pets... just die a lot. When playing val I find it just gets in the way. < 1286306273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for wiz it makes sense but... < 1286306277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are very useful in sokoban. < 1286306284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end < 1286306288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: i have done that exactly once) < 1286306290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had like four pets < 1286306293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all gained in sokoban < 1286306296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for curse testing? < 1286306298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1286306300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the room at the end < 1286306305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes? < 1286306305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just let my four pets fight them all < 1286306307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't get a scratch < 1286306310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, the monsters inside < 1286306312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't the monsters all asleep < 1286306314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside < 1286306321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or didn't you have stealth? < 1286306325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't. < 1286306328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286306333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the harder version of the level, btw < 1286306346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oReflection one < 1286306361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but a monster got spawned on the Elbereth < 1286306363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, pets near the end of game can be useful. I mean, tame archeon? Or tame ki-rin (probably only reasonable for knights) < 1286306367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a werecreature stole it, I think < 1286306371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly wasn't there < 1286306390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286306397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol even changing the space weighting to 100 doesn't work < 1286306405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 is better < 1286306423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, lucky you didn't do the expanded array thing then < 1286306436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T=[32]*1000+[36]*5+[37]*3+[33] < 1286306437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:) < 1286306456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :len(T) = 1009 < 1286306458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way in Coq of bundling theorems together given some axioms? < 1286306467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you say that the ! was? < 1286306467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1286306474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: modules, "Parameter" < 1286306482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it sections? I forget < 1286306484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't -- potion. < 1286306487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286306494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you have some object Group which gives lots of goodies when passed the group, composition and axioms. < 1286306496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just HP potion :P < 1286306499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and $ is gold I presume... % is food? < 1286306504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286306518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hp potion will most likely just incr an internal hp potion counter by something random < 1286306525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what weapons will be available? < 1286306533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then quaffing a potion will heal min(sum, 15) or whatever < 1286306535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sections would seem to do it, but I don't know how they actually work. < 1286306540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your fists < 1286306545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: see manual ;) < 1286306545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no sword? < 1286306566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you could also think of it as a sword < 1286306571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really a rougelike without the equipment system < 1286306579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is starting to lose track of the BBC pop scientists < 1286306580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and levels < 1286306594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not exactly an avid follower. < 1286306602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dude, it's close enough! < 1286306724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't even have walls < 1286306728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i might add them. < 1286306787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286306800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, need them for boss and booth at least < 1286306806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :walls that is < 1286306815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the booth will actually just be a single character. < 1286306824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes but larger on the inside you said? < 1286306829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a TARDIS joke. < 1286306832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286306837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the effect of it being a pay-teleport will be conveyed entirely through one line of message :P < 1286306840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought that you would show it on screen < 1286306841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1286306845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it will < 1286306855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, randomly placing walls would be silly, because sooner or later you would then run into a barrier you couldn't pass. < 1286306867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You insert your gold into the slot. ... The door opens! --More--" < 1286306876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wow -- it's bigger on the inside! You see a big, shiny button. --More--" < 1286306877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given perfect randomness and so on < 1286306882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You press the button... --More--" < 1286306892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Suddenly, you find yourself in a barren desert, with this evil guy." < 1286306896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still Euclidean. I disapprove. < 1286306904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so go in another direction :P < 1286306925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, "technically", you could end up surrounded entirely by monsters < 1286306927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well sooner or later you will run into a wall that surrounds you < 1286306931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or there could never be a booth generated, ever < 1286306934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, you won't < 1286306938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even *close* to remotely probable < 1286306945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you can embed the hyperbolic plain into a terminal sensibly-ish. < 1286306945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not probably at all indeed < 1286306957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sooner or later it will happen, given an infinite plane < 1286306963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I'm completely wrong < 1286306983 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it would take ages, I assume. < 1286306985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perfect randomness of course < 1286306986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the probability approaches 1. < 1286306988 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes it would < 1286306996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, you do not have time to play that long < 1286307002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1286307002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given, say, the predicted age of the universe. < 1286307011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never claimed it was likely < 1286307023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, getting surrounded by walls at the start is more probable < 1286307035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that is just 8 tiles < 1286307038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not likely < 1286307042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but *more* likely < 1286307042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still hideously improbable :P < 1286307045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the low probability of walls < 1286307049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than running into it at some distance < 1286307064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed, getting two wall segments next to each other would be low < 1286307068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, approximate wall probability? < 1286307070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you try to deal with that < 1286307081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "small" < 1286307087 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh also: with walls you need LOS calculations < 1286307093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OOM? < 1286307093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will likely generate them separately or not at all < 1286307096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: er? why? < 1286307100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1286307108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, glass walls? < 1286307109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Order of magnitude? < 1286307119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T=[32]*1000+[36]*5+[37]*3+[35]*3+[33] < 1286307123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except more likely than that, probably < 1286307130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. < 1286307134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or you have x-ray vision < 1286307135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick one < 1286307144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286307183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I prefer the dungeon to be filled with strange cubes made of breakproof glass :P < 1286307300 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that if the attribute is found through the normal mechanism, __getattr__() is not called." <-- I love how this leaves what "the normal mechanism" is, up to the imagination. < 1286307326 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pulls a normal mechanism out of his pocket < 1286307332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to have a dividing line before the status line < 1286307334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's too confusing < 1286307383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I detect python naming there < 1286307390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks ugly < 1286307398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__slots__, __init__ and so on < 1286307432 0 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1286307432 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1286307432 0 :coppro!~scshunt@unaffiliated/scshunt JOIN :#esoteric < 1286307460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi coppro < 1286307492 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1286307557 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI POOPPY < 1286307719 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what else would I be carping about? < 1286307733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: does banging into a wall in nethack affect the turns? < 1286307735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, does it < 1286307778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err? < 1286307783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1286307785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@# < 1286307785 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: . ? @ v < 1286307785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1286307788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you mean, if you advance a turn if you try to walk into a wall? < 1286307790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1286307792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it erodes engravings, but has no other effect < 1286307796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the erosion on engravings is probably a bug < 1286307800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't think I ever tried XD < 1286307804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1286307809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is exploited to great effect by people reverse-engineering the RNG < 1286307820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it advances the RNG seed < 1286307895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listened to an interview on radio with a professor in discrete math. Quite unusual. < 1286307950 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, how could you know the seed < 1286307962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it's seeded with the current date and time, right? < 1286307968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286307969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have no message line, woo < 1286307977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, seeds follow a pattern, set off enough random events and you can figure out where in the pattern you are < 1286307987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286307993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone made a bunch of rainbow tables, they had to change the RNG to reseed from /dev/random in order to block that on NAO < 1286308001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it time() or gettimeofday() ? < 1286308009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the former you couldn't probably manage to figure out < 1286308022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter has way too high res for you to figure out when it ran without a debugger < 1286308034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the former, and you can get it within a few seconds pretty easily < 1286308048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1286308051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and within a second allowing for network lag and clock skew, which you can manage by seeing what happened with your failed attempts < 1286308085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway how easy would it be to figure out the seed if it started off from /dev/random? I mean, you could probably still figure it out with a table < 1286308092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking up start sequences < 1286308094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as I said, it was rainbow-tabled < 1286308109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh *re*seed < 1286308112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on NAO, it reseeds from /dev/random every now and then, paxed's keeping the exact interval secret < 1286308112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the "re" < 1286308129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on /dev/null, it uses a cryptographically secure RNG seeded from /dev/random < 1286308134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286308154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even a bunch of tables for doing AES quickly < 1286308167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1286308184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, /dev/random is a bit iffy though, compared to /dev/urandom. It would get stuck quickly quite easily if many people start games at the same time < 1286308195 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rainbow tables! man, i love that game < 1286308199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, probably /dev/urandom < 1286308203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what? < 1286308209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently using /dev/urandom directly was too slow < 1286308213 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know. rainbow tables! < 1286308222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yes, I know what they are. But "game"? < 1286308231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NetHack? < 1286308235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! the best! < 1286308237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286308243 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than musical chairs even! < 1286308246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought cpressey meant a game called "rainbow tables" < 1286308251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just confused me < 1286308257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okayyy, my M function is fucked up. < 1286308266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what does M do? < 1286308271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moves < 1286308273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and updates everything :P < 1286308275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286308687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def Q(x):s.move(23,0);s.insertln();s.addstr(23,0,x);s.getkey() < 1286308692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Why does everything suck? < 1286308697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because. < 1286308749 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class object: def __suck__(self): return True < 1286309042 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1286309045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: L+=int(not randint(0,3)and randint(5,10)) < 1286309047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHA < 1286309059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a bitwise and? < 1286309067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and likewise not) < 1286309068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1286309073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C logical? < 1286309077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1286309083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Python logical < 1286309088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, right < 1286309092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it returns the right argument only if the left is 0 < 1286309097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*False < 1286309100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 0 < 1286309102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or [] < 1286309102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or '' < 1286309103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1286309103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and int(True)=1, int(False)=0 < 1286309105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case I don't get the not < 1286309113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'll elaborate on the logic: < 1286309121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1/3 chance: increase HP by random in range 5 to 10" < 1286309171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and most of the time nothing happens < 1286309176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that 1/3 or 1/4? < 1286309231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, 1/4 < 1286309233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be 13 < 1286309234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1/3 < 1286309359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "H:-46" < 1286309361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some hunger < 1286309464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTFFF < 1286309470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hunger increases properly unless i hold down for a while < 1286309479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it stops increasing, then goes to something random when i move in a different direction < 1286309480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1286309485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffer overflow? < 1286309489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1286309567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: want to see the WIP version? < 1286309578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: everyone: you too < 1286309616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: HOW could hunger possibly go down like that?! < 1286309640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you're not mixing longjmp and autos, either < 1286309654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, the random number is probably significant, you should figure out what it's referring to < 1286309656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in Python? < 1286309661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's not random < 1286309663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually decreases < 1286309664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1286309676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you used the wrong variable name somewhere? < 1286309679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's mysteriously gained another digit < 1286309680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1286309687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s.addstr(22,0,'_'*80);C('$:%-17s T:%-17s H:%-17s HP:%-3s (%s)'%(G,N,H,L,P));s.move(y-Y+11,x-X+40) < 1286309693 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1286309696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G is Gold < 1286309701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N is turNs < 1286309703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H is Hunger < 1286309705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L is Life < 1286309707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P is Potion < 1286309747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, there is nowhere else I change these values... < 1286309757 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1286309763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1286309768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 8xx thing behaves like 1xx < 1286309774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 900 made me die < 1286309775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1286309807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's really annoying. Really really annoying. All the rips of Monty Python's Flying Circus out there are from the NTSC DVDs. < 1286309880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to make hunger actually be satiation < 1286309910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY WOULD I WANT NTSC VERSIONS OF A PAL BROADCAST? < 1286310010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I swear, this is *utterly* inscrutable to me. < 1286310015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wanna debug my golfed Roguelike?!?!?!?!?! < 1286310023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... GOD. < 1286310144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I can find from-PAL rips of the *movies*. < 1286310154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, the ones that are 24 fps. < 1286310155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DEBG < 1286310176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that I could de-telecine from the NTSC source) < 1286310240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I have to be pickier than everyone who does encodes for torrents? < 1286310242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear, it's like key repeat does nothing to this. < 1286310307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have to purchase the series from amazon.co.uk just to not be irritated. < 1286310338 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :farnsmetchl < 1286310367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... you torrent TV programs, but buy them if the torrents are in the wrong format? < 1286310389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out a code of laziness/ethics/piracy that would cause that to be your typicla behaviour < 1286310391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typical < 1286310425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually, I torrent them, but then get irritated at the low quality of the torrents, and I am now being irritated. < 1286310426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Piracy is not wrong, and I am a perfectionist." < 1286310435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what alise said. < 1286310435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is ... pretty much also my position. < 1286310444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1286310467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in *this* case, I made the DVD rips from roommate's box set, and am now being irritated that it wasn't in PAL. < 1286310538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: seriously, if I had the hard drive space to make it practical, I'd just be storing remuxes of the DVD. < 1286310605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, 1.2 Mbps h264 & source audio works. < 1286310721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Please figure out why Python is ignoring physics. < 1286310734 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw, how do you pronounce your nick? because i tried last night and what came out sounded really awful. < 1286310774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Peek aitch kyuu < 1286310774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentally pronounce it as in pik HQ < 1286310775 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you care, i found your hs bf compiler i had saved to my flash drive, and i said to myself, "oh yeah that's pikhq's" < 1286310783 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually just stop reading after "pik" < 1286310786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Eff you < 1286310820 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: probably because guido doesn't understand it? < 1286310823 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh! is it... supposed to sound similar to "Pikachu"? i'm surprised i never noticed < 1286310831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes. < 1286310841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I was 8 and fond of Pokémon. < 1286310857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce it "pikhq" < 1286310862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Vorpal: want to see the WIP version? <-- sure < 1286310864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me tell you, pronouncing "khq" is a BITCH. < 1286310875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I demand some IPA. < 1286310902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pi" as the start of pikachu; ktch-kyu but don't pronounce the u < 1286310918 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your GStreamer installation is missing a plug-in. | Your GStreamer installation is missing a plug-in. | Internal data flow error. | Your GStreamer installation is missing a plug-in. | Your GStreamer installation is missing a plug-in. | Internal data flow error. < 1286310923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As soon as I get quaffing working :P < 1286310926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No max HP hooray < 1286310929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should add that < 1286310989 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, music players on linux worked much better before gstreamer < 1286310996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also need to go through my anime collection and get rid of all the hardsub'd stuff. < 1286311007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardsubs anger me. < 1286311211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286311353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES THIS NOT FURK < 1286311405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: pastebin it somewhere, I'm interested now < 1286311423 0 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1286311423 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1286311423 0 :coppro!~scshunt@unaffiliated/scshunt JOIN :#esoteric < 1286311440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def C(x):s.insstr(23,0,' '*80);s.addstr(23,0,x);s.redrawwin();s.refresh() < 1286311443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this inexplicably fixes everything < 1286311445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the redraw lines) < 1286311464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastie.org/1201439.txt?key=fo9d7wsmz1xh8b6gwnkbvg < 1286311466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it break < 1286311470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove ";s.redrawwin();s.refresh()" < 1286311482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that fail: get a ! (potion), q(uaff) it, doesn't show until next turn < 1286311483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wasn't planning to run it < 1286311497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold down j (only j works, I have no idea why), watch turn and satiation counters not change after a while < 1286311500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move in another direction < 1286311501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go WTF < 1286311507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's perfectly innocuous... < 1286311519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Vorpal: No max HP hooray <-- heh < 1286311524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is now < 1286311525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(300) < 1286311592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286311596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any leveling? < 1286311601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1286311607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't much of a rougelike without that :( < 1286311610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or monsters yet < 1286311616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: does anything else on your botl update? < 1286311620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh eff of, it's going to be like 150 lines *with* the boss < 1286311623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if it's an issue with the cursor position < 1286311627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: $ when you get $ < 1286311632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you call it? < 1286311634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HP obviously < 1286311637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: vagrant < 1286311639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vagrant.py < 1286311650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eff off < 1286311662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah I need to make a Vagrant'ELM then (Extended Levels and Magic) ;) < 1286311695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably won't do it though, not enough motivation < 1286311753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1286311755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems I more and more prefer thinking about programming than actually programming. Not just the theoretical parts, but also sometimes the implementation details < 1286311763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you actually figure it out, do enlighten me :P < 1286311766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only someone invented a serialization interface for the brain < 1286311796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so N and S don't change, but G does? < 1286311819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I thought about brainfuck optimisation quite a bit recently, and thought of some interesting things, but meh, can't be bothered to code all the analysis needed for it. < 1286311830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly ways to optimise unbalanced loops < 1286311853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :require quite a lot of graph operations to figure out invariants and such < 1286311971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: N and S change, yes. < 1286311973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them change < 1286311977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at different times < 1286311982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N and S change in lockstep except when you eat < 1286311982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, when holding down k < 1286311984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*j < 1286311987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than in general < 1286311992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: N and S change but not G unless you run into anything. < 1286311998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any $s, in particular < 1286312004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P would change if you run into a potion < 1286312006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this happens on open space < 1286312008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when holding down j and N and S become bugged, does G also change? < 1286312014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you hit a $ at random? < 1286312017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somehow, *not redrawing* causes the variables to change state permanently(?!?!?!) < 1286312028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not sure, it's never happened to me < 1286312030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to try < 1286312031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1286312033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, argh not vimkeys < 1286312038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numpad numpad! < 1286312041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. < 1286312042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1286312044 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :( < 1286312061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I assumed you'd use vikeys for roguelikes... < 1286312067 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numpad controls + laptop = argh < 1286312073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he is allergic to vikeys < 1286312075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's why I learnt vikeys initially < 1286312078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and religiously insists on numpad < 1286312079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now really < 1286312079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1286312248 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python would be just that much less obnoxious if only it had 'isa' and 'has' and 'can' < 1286312434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Imagine the storage space that could be had if we brought back 5¼" hard drives. < 1286312455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know. < 1286312459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/alise: // < 1286312481 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I touched one once! It was already dead, alas. < 1286312547 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286312698 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_%28programming_language%29 < 1286312885 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a language where tokenization happens on case-change boundaries < 1286312944 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapDivPrint < 1286312948 0 :pineal_aenimal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 241 seconds < 1286312952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a 40 MB 5.25" IDE HD in my closet. Imagine the storage space. < 1286312982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A modern 5¼" drive. Imagine what could be. < 1286313018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I recall correctly, it's split to a 32 MB and 8 MB FAT partitions, because DOS ~3.2 didn't support such hugeness. < 1286313199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: when you get back, I can't see what's causing the error, but am confused about scopes; why is there a "global" in M but not D? < 1286313272 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that should be: swapDIVprint < 1286313477 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should totally write a utility that just fills my terminal with randomly coloured solid squares. < 1286313482 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would actually find this useful < 1286313516 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my poorman's version is ls -la with dir colourization active < 1286313538 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286313554 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286313571 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai < 1286313593 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi threw "status access violation" or something < 1286313702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral: don't mess with the status access. < 1286313712 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-70-79.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286313712 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1286313712 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1286313790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, wait, it was you who did Burro, right? < 1286313861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The same! < 1286313867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean: yes. < 1286313913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: why do you want a utility to do that? < 1286313914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To beat a dead horse some more, aren't groups and monads the same kind of thing? < 1286313916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be too hard... < 1286313957 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To easily see when I've reached the top of the output of the last command I issued when I browse the scrollback. < 1286313964 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run ls -la before it. < 1286313966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1286313983 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running 'rainbow vomit' or such would be much cooler, though. < 1286314053 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Same kind of thing? Sure. < 1286314082 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have this thing, and this other thing, and they do stuff. < 1286314182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a group is a set G, a function . : G×G→G and the conditions of identity, inversion and associativity. < 1286314182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> Vorpal: I assumed you'd use vikeys for roguelikes... <-- this is not the first time you told me that < 1286314186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I told you I do not < 1286314201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is like the 7th time over the past few years < 1286314248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cpressey> Python would be just that much less obnoxious if only it had 'isa' and 'has' and 'can' <--- like... "import foo" → "can has foo"? < 1286314251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1286314262 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A monad is a functor m, functions unit and join and the monad laws. < 1286314284 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A group is a tool for studying symmetry mathematically. < 1286314289 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your turn. < 1286314312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touché... < 1286314391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tofu < 1286314405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you only need global to assign < 1286314407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think the category-theoretical definition of monads involves wrapping around data. < 1286314407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank guido < 1286314417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not really. < 1286314432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, VERY SLIGHTLY < 1286314436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you sure? does it not form a closure without? < 1286314455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not if you do += < 1286314455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not exactly what I had in mind < 1286314458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works if you do =, just forms a closure < 1286314461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you do += it fails < 1286314467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it expands to < 1286314468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = x + ... < 1286314469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I suspected as much < 1286314470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x isn't definef < 1286314471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*defined < 1286314473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're defining it < 1286314478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be part of the new scope, not globals < 1286314479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it errors < 1286314480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1286314487 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hail the simplicity of unscopedness < 1286314491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I mean, if you use a variable inside a definition, don't you read the value it had when the definition was defined? < 1286314492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hovering I just couldnt resist joking about that horrible lolcode < 1286314505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's put it this way < 1286314507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=3 < 1286314510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f():return x < 1286314512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f() => 3 < 1286314514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :------------------- < 1286314515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=3 < 1286314518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f(): < 1286314521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x=9 < 1286314522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return x < 1286314523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f() => 9 < 1286314524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1286314525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-------------- < 1286314526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 3 < 1286314526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1286314527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f(): < 1286314530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of scoping is that? < 1286314530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x = x + 3 < 1286314533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return x < 1286314534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f() => ERROR < 1286314543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it sees that x is defined somewhere, yet you use it before it's defined! < 1286314547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, that scoping is okay < 1286314548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first two < 1286314551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one doesn't modify the global < 1286314558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it creates a local < 1286314559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now finally < 1286314560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 3 < 1286314561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one looks like some sort of scope-by-reference < 1286314563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1286314565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1286314569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't mutate global x < 1286314573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third one is the real issue < 1286314574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already said that < 1286314577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally < 1286314577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1286314578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 3 < 1286314579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f() < 1286314581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f(): < 1286314582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : global x < 1286314585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x = x + 3 < 1286314586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return x < 1286314588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f() => 6 < 1286314589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x => 6 < 1286314593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking about x=3; def f(): return x; x=9; print f() < 1286314598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't a case you've suggested so far < 1286314603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 9 < 1286314609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was bletching at < 1286314623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1286314628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is wrong order? < 1286314635 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hail < 1286314648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose it's using lexical scoping there < 1286314652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but explicit < 1286314660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh? < 1286314663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to show f's grouping < 1286314668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=3 < 1286314670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f(): < 1286314671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return x < 1286314671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=9 < 1286314677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print f() => prints 9 < 1286314678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant < 1286314679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is obvious < 1286314679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws a hail storm at cpressey < 1286314682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what everything does < 1286314687 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hailstorm* < 1286314704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't Haskell allow you to define monads that don't even obey the monad laws. < 1286314705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English isn't even consistent about *which* words it writes as one < 1286314705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here, x in f() means "the current value of the variable x that exists in the scope where f was defined" < 1286314705 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "lexical" < 1286314709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1286314721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's lexical scoping < 1286314734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there, yes < 1286314738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1286314752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you explain this in English: "hailstorm" but "car engine", why not "hail storm" or "carengine" < 1286314756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MADNESS < 1286314771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: historical accident < 1286314777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "hail storm" is also correct < 1286314790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there any pattern to when words are written together and when they aren't? < 1286314790 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "hail stone" might not be < 1286314799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, see < 1286314805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not that I know of < 1286314807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more confusing < 1286314819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Swedish isn't totally consistent either so shaddup < 1286314832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a lot more though, also any specific examples? < 1286314887 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you imported the word "gravad lax" from Swedish (much like you did with smörgåsbord), except you turned it into "gravadlax" iirc. Since usually it is English who writes as separate words it doesn't make much sense XD. (Also it is completely logically that it should be two words in Swedish) < 1286314888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't know swedish, but i know for a fact it isn't totally consistent. < 1286314894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if anyone cares I could explain why) < 1286314902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also know that if anyone used it as much as english, it would be just as inconsistent < 1286314920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, correct, we have other issues, you have easy rules for when to use "a" and when to use "an", we have en/ett and no easy rules for when to use which < 1286314956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I simply have no idea how that code could possibly cause the number of turns to decrease, ever. < 1286314974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was just looking for a pattern in this specific issue, I did not claim Swedish was consistent in general of course. Such a claim would be absurd. Where did you get that from? < 1286315004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowhere < 1286315013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying stop acting like it's strange that english is so abhorrently inconsistent < 1286315018 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1286315032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not. I was just wondering about a specific issue < 1286315044 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language doesn't travel halfway across the globe without picking up a few venereal diseases < 1286315046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise,, maybe you should try to base your attacks on something more substantial than thin air next time < 1286315047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1286315065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you often complain about english. < 1286315069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is really irritating and boring. < 1286315076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, my interest in this was simply finding a better way to figure out than checking if aspell accepts the written together form < 1286315085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The pattern is this: English does compound words with spaces between the components. Things that don't do this are exceptions. < 1286315095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't generalise. I didn't do it in this case. < 1286315104 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so yeah your attack was based on thin air < 1286315113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also: always-adding-spaces is also correct. < 1286315117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1286315125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, like "hail stone"? < 1286315126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Correct but inidiomatic. < 1286315131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfectly correct. < 1286315133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with English, really, only idiomatic matters. < 1286315135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286315139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1286315141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hail stone isn't < 1286315149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hailstone isn't a type of stone < 1286315153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a hailstone < 1286315157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a hail storm is a storm of hail < 1286315161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It doesn't get noticed at all as unidiomatic. And in fact I'd write it as "hail stone", likely. < 1286315163 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i will certainly know what you mean if you say "a hail stone hit me in the forehead" < 1286315176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about "arrow head" then? < 1286315187 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286315191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds monsters < 1286315201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nice, what sort of monsters? < 1286315201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :germanic vs latinate steel cage match < 1286315204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd write that as "arrowhead". < 1286315204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: evil ones < 1286315214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, correction: "fore head" :P < 1286315216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monsters that only start moving when you walk into their view: realistic! < 1286315221 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286315223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think "arrow head" is wrong, though. < 1286315226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, same, but would "arrow head" be correct? < 1286315229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286315242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "fore head" screams "wrong" though. < 1286315249 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"arrow head" has amusing connotations to me. like it's an unusual part of an arrow. < 1286315264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm parsing "fore" as a morpheme but not an individual word. < 1286315271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah, which shows that the "spaces is always correct" rule suddenly breaks down :P < 1286315276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286315284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you have fore and aft hm < 1286315292 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :star board < 1286315298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what should monsters look like. < 1286315305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: English orthography is hard, mmkay? < 1286315313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, that should be "stearing side", iirc that is the history of the term < 1286315322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q. Q is a good monster colour. < 1286315324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comes from scandinavian langauges iirc < 1286315327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old norse or such < 1286315348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "styrbord" in Swedish, which is a lot closer to making sense in the modern form < 1286315364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like starboard which changed so much that it doesn't make immediate sense any more < 1286315389 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i hasten to point out that there is no "steering side" on a modern ship either < 1286315399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/Large_Hailstons_in_Leipzig_Jun06.jpg < 1286315402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1286315405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, "The origin of the term starboard comes from early boating practices. Before ships had rudders on their centerlines, they were steered by use of a specialized steering oar. This oar was held by an oarsman located in the stern (back) of the ship. However, like most of society, there were many more right-handed sailors than left-handed sailors. This meant that the steering oar (which had been broadened to provide better control) used to < 1286315405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : be affixed to the right side of the ship." < 1286315419 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286315422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to store health for every single monster... Hmm. < 1286315444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, not on modern ones, but surely you have seen viking ships on TV and museums and such? < 1286315447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not over there < 1286315448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286315450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: make hitting the monster kill it outright with small probability, do nothing otherwise? < 1286315460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the more you pound on any given monster, the more likely it is to die in that time? < 1286315465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Stupid interpretation of US law ahoy: "if corporations are people, and slavery is the trade/exchange/purchase/sale of people, and the stock market is the trade/exchange/purchase/sale of corporations. Then in effect, the Stock Market is a slave Market." < 1286315476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the law literally says "CORPORATIONS ARE PEOPLE" < 1286315476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that one < 1286315479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is why corporations get jobs! < 1286315481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, he's *serious* < 1286315486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("The Citizens United ruling either needs to be overturned or the Stock Market needs to be eliminated for violating the Constitution...") < 1286315509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that the word "owning" has a different meaning wrt corporations, and wrt natural persons, to some extent < 1286315515 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-224-53.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1286315521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, if you can control a person's actions via voting at them, isn't that slavery in some respects? < 1286315524 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did put it in terms of 'if then' < 1286315543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I think that argument might technically be legally correct with a literal meaning < 1286315549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> ais523: no, he's *serious* <-- who? < 1286315553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: reddit < 1286315555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286315563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but no law says "corporations are people" < 1286315568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "corporations have these rights, yada yada yada" < 1286315583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was a law defining corporations as "persons" < 1286315585 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept is "corporate personhood" < 1286315587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stupid legal plurals...) < 1286315590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if not randint(0,14): < 1286315590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Q('Euuch! That must have been poisoned...',1);L-=randint(15,20) < 1286315593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food is a bitch in this game < 1286315596 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that corporations have all the same rights as people < 1286315606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: not all, IIRC < 1286315607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just many < 1286315620 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the concept. not the reality < 1286315620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/dn3b9/can_we_make_this_happen_redditor_suggests/c11fnbm < 1286315627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ from someone who actually knows it :P < 1286315636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While I disagree violently with the ruling, and I think it sets a dangerous precedent in law and allows a destabilizing financial force to enter our political process, the OP's remarks above have no basis in law or reality and would certainly have no power to convince a jury to repeal this verdict." < 1286315674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a while back, I had a bit of crisis, in that I oppose corporate personhood but supported agoran partnerships < 1286315677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then I realised IT'S A GAME < 1286315694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agoran partnerships are clearly a bad idea if you're trying to build a fair democracy < 1286315706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing that that isn't the goal at Agora, or it would be a very boring game < 1286315740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :) < 1286315809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I think you can oppose corporate personhood and support agoran partnerships for the same reasons < 1286315809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to inject viral rules into Agora? < 1286315815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, and has been done before now < 1286315819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt it would be all that interesting < 1286315825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did they do? < 1286315846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them changed precedences at random, IIRC < 1286315852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it was a rule fragment that made the rule defer to other rules < 1286315892 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1286315900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would it spread? < 1286315920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it wasn't a truly independent virus, but rather was spread by a separate rule < 1286315929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286315932 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any fully permanent rules? < 1286315941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would a truly independent one work? < 1286315952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd contain the code for replicating itself < 1286315957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what is it with crazy Americans and not wanting to pay income tax? < 1286315963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, as in any rule can in theory be changed via a 3:1 majority < 1286315966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286315978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so that rule is therefore immutable. < 1286315991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, couldn't that be changed to require a 4:1 ? < 1286315995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed < 1286316010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could change the rules to make them truly immutable, although such a change would be unlikely to pass < 1286316011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, even the fountain? < 1286316030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? < 1286316031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1286316034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a power=3 rule to kill it < 1286316036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the fountain can legally be changed at AI 3; most people would think it very bad form to change it at an AI less than 4, though < 1286316046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AI? < 1286316050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many people think it should only be changed via scam < 1286316058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Agoran Intelligence? < 1286316060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the higher the AI, the harder it is for a proposal to pass, but the more it can if it does pass < 1286316064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And surely the voting rules are immutable? < 1286316065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more it can do < 1286316065 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286316073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and of course not, they change frequently in fact < 1286316079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does AI stand for? < 1286316086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adoption index < 1286316089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1286316090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah* < 1286316098 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286316100 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so can the 3:1 rule be disabled and then a permanent rule introduced? < 1286316102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, 3 is enough to change anything, but by convention some things need more (and people vote against otherwise) < 1286316106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: of course < 1286316112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other rules need to be disabled too to make a permanent rule < 1286316116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has this been attempted? < 1286316119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as the one that says permanent rules are disallowed < 1286316125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, because permanent rules are a stupid idea < 1286316137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permanent viral rules? < 1286316137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the whole point of a nomic is to not have permanent rules < 1286316143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the 3:1 rule is just the proposal-passing rule. < 1286316144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that's a bad idea < 1286316155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you even want a permanent viral rule? < 1286316158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single rule which says only "this rule is immutable". < 1286316171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that would be bad form IMO < 1286316178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a permanent trophy, make it too cool to repeal < 1286316195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, people will never vote to repeal it < 1286316197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as the fountain? < 1286316200 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.83.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286316202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1286316210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wasn't there a whale too? < 1286316214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 104's never been changed, and as a result, most players will refuse to vote for changes to it < 1286316222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as there's no reason to change or repeal it < 1286316235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: rule 2105 < 1286316243 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to egobot? < 1286316248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://www.agoranomic.org/ <-- wait, did they redesign that page < 1286316250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one's was explicitly intended for people to scam their way into, eventually, but it lasted longer than expected < 1286316253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "they"? < 1286316254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the agora nomic website that is < 1286316256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote that < 1286316260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286316260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ais523 rewrote it, now it's unreadable < 1286316267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no it isn't < 1286316268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because of the silly two columns) < 1286316269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and alise has gone all crazy about inability to read the page < 1286316269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just different < 1286316277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if a page is in two columns and one is ads, is it unreadable? < 1286316292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why would two columns be unreadable < 1286316292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'd fill a whole column with ads? < 1286316296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia main page uses that < 1286316298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I've seen it done < 1286316299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot more < 1286316301 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286316308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I try and keep a policy of not talking to anyone who takes disagreement as "going all crazy" < 1286316309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w3c uses 3 columns iirc < 1286316312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't, I mean < 1286316313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so please don't. < 1286316324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you can filter out ads from a second column, why not text? < 1286316329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: w3c uses three columns, of which one is content and the other two is navigation < 1286316330 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agora would seem an interesting thing to do, but I suspect it'd require a large investment of time and effort... < 1286316343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway why is two columns of text wrong? < 1286316354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, it requires basically 0 < 1286316361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not that much, you only need to pay attention once a week or so, maybe even less < 1286316366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a lazy arse who just mocks wooble every now and then on the mailing list < 1286316368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm still a player < 1286316390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want things to /happen/, you basically have to do them yourself, otherwise it just sits there doing nothing but the occasional report < 1286316402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you're content to watch and chip in occasionally, hardly any effort's required < 1286316434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't understand rule 104 < 1286316438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just read it < 1286316448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is a speaker in agora? It takes too much to find the relevant rules < 1286316451 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION offers ais523 as a sacrifice to summon Egobot. < 1286316452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Speaker for the first game shall be Michael Norrish < 1286316455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1286316468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, you said that "<ais523> rule 104's never been changed, and as a result, most players will refuse to vote for changes to it" < 1286316469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so um < 1286316472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Speaker for the first game /was/ Michael Norrish, it doesn't matter what it means now < 1286316477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, I still have the swatpan. < 1286316481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1286316486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swatpans ais523 --==\#/ < 1286316488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, Michael Norrish is obligated to be MIchael Norrish, an obligation that he takes very seriously < 1286316498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err? XD < 1286316510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once, Michael Norrish was not Michael Norrish < 1286316514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we exiled him from the game retroactively < 1286316527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is that just a blatant lie? < 1286316532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286316532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you know something you aren't telling me? < 1286316538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know ... all things ... < 1286316549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's as much of a blatant lie as him being serious about his responsibility to be himself) < 1286316552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is to say, entirely) < 1286316563 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286316569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, it was found via CFJ that he legally had to be Michael Norrish < 1286316578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he's generally been pretty good about keeping to the rules < 1286316587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1286316591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, I have an excellent idea < 1286316602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Michael Norrish is breaking the rules; I'll elaborate in /msg < 1286316642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm does "suffusion of yellow" come from Dirk Gently or does it have some older source? < 1286316664 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: a sacrifice to Gregor, I assume < 1286316682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: incidentally, I learnt WML from looking at existing examples < 1286316683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I mad? < 1286316688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dirk gently < 1286316697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wait, no < 1286316699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RishoNomic < 1286316704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rishonomic < 1286316706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Dirk Gently would be older < 1286316707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1286316716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't < 1286316719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it shouldn't be too hard < 1286316723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you see how much time travel was in that story? < 1286316735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err...? < 1286316737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what a language! < 1286316749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like someone decided to make an XML-based language, and was serious about it < 1286316755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mixed it with the C preprocessor < 1286316765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but it is a DSL so learning it from examples wouldn't be impossible < 1286316778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in my experience < 1286316782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it isn't a DSL, really < 1286316786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1286316786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty general language < 1286316790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286316813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I thought it was heavy on [ ] for syntax? was that the preprocessor stuff? < 1286316857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, that's the XML < 1286316862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses square brackets rather than angle brackets < 1286316871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the preprocessor uses #ifdef, etc, as in C < 1286316877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that # is /also/ a comment character < 1286316882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, it uses braces < 1286316891 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1286316915 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it pluggable? < 1286316918 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be pluggable. < 1286316930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: very pluggable < 1286316940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1286316941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do {path/to/directory} < 1286316948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it automatically #includes every file in that directory < 1286316961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is WML the WAP one? < 1286316962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not #include or anything such? < 1286316963 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1286316964 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1286316969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not < 1286316970 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: a sacrifice to anyone with the power to summon egobot. I want to test a BF Joust entry before I add it to the wiki :-) < 1286316970 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does order matter? < 1286316972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, Battle for Wesnoth < 1286316974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no? it is wesnoth < 1286316988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not called #include, it's called {}, which is the syntax also used for something entirely different < 1286316995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, XD < 1286317001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, the game disambiguates by checking to see if the file in question exists or not < 1286317004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I guess it is not LR(1) or? < 1286317011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286317016 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed crazy parsing at least < 1286317016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, hopefully it checks the list of definitions first) < 1286317023 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the best kind of context dependency ever! < 1286317026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it's basically XML, it parses incredibly regularly < 1286317040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh, but not preprocessing? < 1286317040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the only way I found to make it error at all is to include a mismatched bracket or something like that < 1286317049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else just fails silently < 1286317057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's rather nasty < 1286317078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lang isn't aware that it's trapped inside Wesnoth < 1286317078 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also why is the preprocessor used? Not for control flow I presume? < 1286317083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for subroutines < 1286317083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOAST A BEAR < 1286317087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is inlined < 1286317089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *ouhc* < 1286317093 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ouch* < 1286317106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not large enough toaster < 1286317106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a way around it, but it's really complex, involving setting up events to call each other in the future < 1286317109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, otherwise: sure < 1286317111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the subroutines are more efficient < 1286317117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: < 1286317121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal would eat toasted bear < 1286317126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I wouldn't < 1286317129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that the loading bar when you start playing is mostly inlining subroutines < 1286317130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would toast it < 1286317136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say I would eat the result < 1286317137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :P < 1286317155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, please read what it says, I would test it on you first < 1286317159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see if it was eatable < 1286317184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*edible? < 1286317190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, who eats a /toaster/ < 1286317191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, edible as well < 1286317205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eatable and edible, what a requirement < 1286317214 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1286317217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eatable I define as "physically possible to eat, like you can get it into your mouth and so on" < 1286317220 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1286317221 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomable? < 1286317224 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does firefox suck so much < 1286317230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edible I define as the usual meaning < 1286317230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your definition does not agree with the english language < 1286317233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: because it isn't chrome < 1286317238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything edible; That can be eaten without harm; non-toxic to humans; suitable for consumption; That can be eaten without disgust < 1286317239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en.wiktionary.org/wiki/edible < 1286317241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course not, since when did it ever do that? < 1286317241 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: due to excessive suckage < 1286317242 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you know :( < 1286317249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "edible" does not mean "nice" < 1286317250 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise stop reading my mind < 1286317251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome seems like an appropriate material to plate a toaster with... < 1286317256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"edible" means "literally able to be eaten" < 1286317267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eatable < 1286317268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what you mean by "eatable" is actually "edible" < 1286317273 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> jesus fuck < 1286317273 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> why is it so hard to find an extension for firefox < 1286317273 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> that makes the address bar search things, like in chrome? < 1286317273 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> it is impossible < 1286317273 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* cheater99 says that with a french accent < 1286317275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alis<alise> Vorpal: "edible" does not mean "nice" <-- correct < 1286317287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but see my link < 1286317295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edible (not comparable) < 1286317295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can be eaten without harm; non-toxic to humans; suitable for consumption. < 1286317295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eatable (comparative more eatable, superlative most eatable) < 1286317295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Able to be eaten; edible < 1286317299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mean the same thing. < 1286317299 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what if you say a girl is edible < 1286317306 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay then < 1286317306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that eatable makes no sense. < 1286317313 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that mean she's nice? < 1286317315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it exists as a word < 1286317316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edible also means "That can be eaten without disgust." but less so < 1286317318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, thus :P < 1286317325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: "Yeah, she's totally non-toxic to humans". < 1286317332 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1286317348 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well "inedible" can still be "digestible" < 1286317357 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, there are some types of mushrooms < 1286317360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a guy digested a plane < 1286317360 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are not edible < 1286317363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean the plane is edible :P < 1286317368 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you force yourself to eat them, you won't die < 1286317384 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or get ill < 1286317388 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are just terrible in taste < 1286317392 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and difficult to chew < 1286317396 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1286317406 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a pinch, they provide protein < 1286317424 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286317472 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise have you ever picked mushrooms < 1286317482 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you a person who enjoys trip to the woods < 1286317489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1286317500 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're missing out < 1286317554 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1286317570 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1286317604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, here is what I dislike about doing that: < 1286317625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exhibit A: Mushroom tasting nice. < 1286317629 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suddenly start hallucinating and find yourself in devonshire? < 1286317636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exhibit B: Looks exactly like A but lethal < 1286317644 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with clothes on you've never seen before? < 1286317649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exhibit C: Looks exactly like A but causes you to hallucinate < 1286317660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exhibit D: Looks exactly like A but just tastes boring < 1286317665 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inedible mushrooms look completely different < 1286317672 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what you're talking about < 1286317677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see no problem with exhibit c :) < 1286317687 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALISE :O < 1286317698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or d, really < 1286317701 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly thinks alise is a miscreant < 1286317705 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1286317712 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1286317714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, depends on if you serve it at the annual anti-drug society meeting :P < 1286317721 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: haha < 1286317742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes B is the issue < 1286317760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, anyway what about "kantarell" whatever that is called in English I don't know < 1286317771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc there are some sorts that look extremely similar to a lethal one < 1286317775 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll give you a hint: < 1286317777 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find out < 1286317791 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then tell me what they're called in english. < 1286317838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes two seconds with interwiki, maybe Vorpal could take the effort. < 1286317841 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean podgrzybek szatański, whatever that is called in english i don't know. < 1286317853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286317861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out it was not the one I was thinking of < 1286317873 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal, i think you need to use the wyszukiwarka tekstu. < 1286317886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, I'm looking for the one I meant < 1286317894 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok good < 1286317906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was not kantarell (chanterelle) < 1286317918 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1286317921 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 11:30 pm < 1286317930 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i go eat some french cheese? < 1286317962 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you enjoy cheese? < 1286317968 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i bet you're all for cheese < 1286318007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well not all sorts < 1286318012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't stand goat cheese < 1286318035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes it was chantarell < 1286318044 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, this is the very similar one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygrophoropsis_aurantiaca < 1286318070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lethal < 1286318072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still nasty < 1286318119 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok lets talk about mushrooms < 1286318141 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286318147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, anyway, there you are, night now → < 1286318165 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are pairs of very good and very toxic mushrooms that look very near the same... < 1286318184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, exactly < 1286318186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→→ < 1286318211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: AI is hard, maybe I'll just make them walk randomly. < 1286318257 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: make them kill their own kind < 1286318311 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: and add mushrooms of hallucination < 1286318327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hallu would be hard with my design < 1286318328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe not < 1286318341 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: they look nearly the same, except their biotopes don't intersect. < 1286318341 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost never ever. < 1286318348 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they do, every guide book has a big warning about it < 1286318370 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lists the give away characteristics < 1286318384 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there are at least one pair of mushrooms that look nearly the same, but one is very good and one tastes extremely bad. < 1286318400 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is the evil twin < 1286318461 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point stands < 1286318485 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1286318532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha wow hallu is amazing < 1286318757 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1286318810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it's evil. < 1286318819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even you can change character. < 1286318869 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This mushroom is commonly confused with the Chanterelle; the distinguishing factors are color (true Chanterelle is uniform egg-yellow, while the false one is more orange in hue and graded, with darker center) and attachment of gills to the stem (true Chanterelle does not have true, blade-like gills--rather, has rib-like folds running down the stem). < 1286318871 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1286318884 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those blades are the giveaway < 1286318927 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what hallu? < 1286318940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What game? < 1286318940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: hallu in vagrant, my silly roguelike < 1286318944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1286318967 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh, i thought you meant a hallucination < 1286318975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :65 lines of python and no architecture that'll let enemies behave non-stupidly! < 1286318977 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i thought you have realized your plan of taking magical mushrooms < 1286318978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1286318979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1286318984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can make them chase you no matter what < 1286318992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: lol, that'd be some speed < 1286319032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, another one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blusher < 1286319091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe killing a dude should give you like $1,000 < 1286319146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your roguelike needs to be easily FooTV-like-system-able < 1286319154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably one of my favorite things about Crawl < 1286319160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there is only one enemy and it doesn't even move. < 1286319161 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Sgeo < 1286319164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet at least < 1286319167 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: umm, HELLOO < 1286319171 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone home? < 1286319178 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on this shitty lcd monitor.. < 1286319181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably lots of people < 1286319183 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see this thing is pink < 1286319192 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you ever think it's edible? < 1286319204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, utter fail < 1286319204 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edible mushrooms are yellow-brown. < 1286319206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Although edible, it can be confused with deadly poisonous species, and should definitely be avoided by novice mushroomers." < 1286319227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and novice bear toasters alike < 1286319228 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there you go < 1286319233 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares if it's edible < 1286319235 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't touch it < 1286319238 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a different one < 1286319242 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286319244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~/Code/vagrant$ wc -c vagrant.py < 1286319244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1605 vagrant.py < 1286319246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty good charcount for this < 1286319250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, still my point stands: they all look alike unless you are an expert < 1286319267 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you ever want to do that < 1286319275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what? < 1286319281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat mushrooms? good question < 1286319285 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :search for mushrooms which look like shitty ones < 1286319286 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run wc? < 1286319321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, irrelevant for my original claim < 1286319325 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: paste code plz < 1286319334 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your original claim was that it was a problem < 1286319336 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it is not. < 1286319339 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u loze < 1286319343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, it is < 1286319352 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to someone who does dumb things, yes < 1286319362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the biotope thing is not enough to help me at least. I'm not a nature person < 1286319369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't tell what biotope it was < 1286319379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus my original claim stands < 1286319425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, also /<cheater99> u/s/u/you/;s/loze/lose/ < 1286319430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn to spell < 1286319433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1286319449 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrn2sed < 1286319476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, yes it was completely correct sed < 1286319490 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought u sed nite < 1286319498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, I had not turned off monitor yet < 1286319530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, also please learn to type. people writing "u" instead of "you" and so on is *really* annoying < 1286319532 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you don't say "correct sed", you say "correctly sed". < 1286319536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh it is? < 1286319539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes them look like idiots < 1286319544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well ull hav 2 get used 2 it < 1286319549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wont u < 1286319550 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vlr; < 1286319553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, And indeed, so you said < 1286319557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *sed < 1286319560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *'n < 1286319564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*u < 1286319574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> also, you don't say "correct sed", you say "correctly sed". <-- no, I used sed as a verb < 1286319578 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: n' no commaz < 1286319581 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dat iz unkool. < 1286319583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1286319588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean noun of course < 1286319589 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*w8 < 1286319592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it both ways < 1286319595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :punk-tutuashion is unk00wl < 1286319600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart 4rom - < 1286319610 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u sed it alise < 1286319611 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1286319615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know, this is just filtered out :P < 1286319616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it/alise/ < 1286319622 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^5! < 1286319633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I say good night, unlike last time I used /away as well < 1286319638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes a difference → < 1286319651 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dat < 1286319651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you should debug my code < 1286319655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hi < 1286319660 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: url? < 1286319679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: http://pastie.org/1201769.txt?key=xtvbpktbvv5gbzotg5bphw < 1286319683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's golfed < 1286319702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the monster movement code (the nested for loop in M) < 1286319704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crashes it somehow < 1286319709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the endwin means you never see the exception :D < 1286319716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something's wrong with it, anyway < 1286319724 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1286319729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck figuring out what all the variables do, i pretty much just pick a letter of the alphabet < 1286319735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : w[y,x]=46;x,y=a,b;w[y,x]=64 < 1286319736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1286319737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be < 1286319740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : w[y,x]=32;x,y=a,b;w[y,x]=64 < 1286319746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that doesn't fix it) < 1286319796 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "golfed"? < 1286319845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KeyError: (4, 46) < 1286319845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286319849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: "made to be as short as possible" < 1286319851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugliness be damned < 1286319857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after code golf, the sport < 1286319864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/ is the prime hub for that malarkey < 1286319900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh joy, it crashes no longer < 1286319902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the guys don't MOVE! < 1286319977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool i can walk into walls now, why. < 1286320002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: okay, remove that first for loop in M and write something that makes all the Qs on the visible board move closer to the guy. < 1286320004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is your task < 1286320017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Ilari> There are pairs of very good and very toxic mushrooms that look very near the same... < 1286320020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you may want to play it a few times to figure out what all the variables are) < 1286320025 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1286320035 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's great, my problem is that my pc is going nuts < 1286320043 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the gfx card is overheating < 1286320049 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see some buffer glitches < 1286320067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also depends on geography, i hear some asian immigrants to norway get poisoned because one of our poisonous mushrooms look like an edible east asian one < 1286320077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hear/read in the newspaper/ < 1286320079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: thankfully, vagrant runs even without much of a graphics card! < 1286320086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can it do text? Yes? YOU WIN!) < 1286320086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*looks < 1286320087 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: post the current code < 1286320091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: okay < 1286320115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: http://pastie.org/1201784.txt?key=gvzfssnyfqjigfcfm92luq < 1286320116 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so your game is about eating < 1286320120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly. < 1286320122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1286320149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: x,y is your position, X,Y is position of centre cell (infinite plane so we scroll), G is gold, N is # of turns, P is health that can be restored by potions, U is whether we're hallucinating or not < 1286320154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S is satiation, L is HP < 1286320156 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1286320160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w is the gamefield indexed by pairs of y and x < 1286320160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1286320174 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :square root of minus gamefield < 1286320189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: lawl < 1286320193 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w contains numbers < 1286320197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: charcodes < 1286320198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ascii < 1286320200 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know but < 1286320205 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do they reprazent? < 1286320209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally chanterelles are among the "safe" mushrooms in norway) < 1286320211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cells at that position < 1286320214 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 is me < 1286320217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286320220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is 64 in ascii < 1286320220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286320224 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1286320230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286320230 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, what do they represent in game? < 1286320234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% is food < 1286320235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! is potion < 1286320238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ is gold < 1286320247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is inexplicable cube of unbreakable glass that you can't walk through < 1286320250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q is a bad guy < 1286320257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ python < 1286320258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ord('x') < 1286320260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find the numbers < 1286320262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i do :P < 1286320264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :81 is Q, I know that < 1286320269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and space is just open space < 1286320306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: controls: vi keys to move, q to restore health from potions you've picked up (amount you can in parens after HP display), space waits < 1286320308 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know ord. < 1286320313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1286320316 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286320330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: and basically all the Qs have to do is move one step closer to the @ < 1286320343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it more fancy if you're that masochistic, but if you want to play with the monster code that's what i'd do < 1286320348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc they can only walk onto space < 1286320354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there's no memory of what's underneath a monster < 1286320358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they'd inexplicably suck up gold < 1286320360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe that's a feature) < 1286320395 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286320419 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe numbers > 1000 should be amount of gold + 1000. < 1286320422 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ monster. < 1286320439 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have a countable amount of monsters < 1286320450 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a parametrized type!!!!!! < 1286320456 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!111 < 1286320460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i lost you after "yes" < 1286320503 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w[x,y] == A > 1000 -> there is a monster at x,y with A-1000 gold. < 1286320544 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know if there is a polynomial time or approximately polynomial time algorithm for finding an embedding of a graph in a plane that minimizes the number of edge intersections? < 1286320576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: oh i see < 1286320579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking rather < 1286320584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill monsters before they suck up all the gold ;P < 1286320585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1286320603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: pretty sure the condition to go to the boss will just be having a certain amount of gold and getting to a booth < 1286320604 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gold can be level < 1286320609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting < 1286320618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: still, i think figuring out why the buggers won't move is a good first step < 1286320638 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sounds NP-complete-ish on first blush, but maybe not < 1286320708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: meanwhile I'll get rid of the M function, since we don't need it! hooray for obfuscation! < 1286320719 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it doesn't seem so obvious to me, but even if it is NP-complete in some parameters it may be polynomial in others. . . < 1286320745 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so this is what python looks like... < 1286320762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i think it's polynomial if the no. of edge intersections is bounded, no idea otherwise < 1286320776 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is w in relation to the center, or to the player? < 1286320799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it's global < 1286320804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because if there are < k intersections you can just try removing all k-edge sets in turn until you find one that makes the rest planar) < 1286320807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0,0) is the centre of everything, regardless of where you are, it's where you started < 1286320815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: if you go far enough you'll get to (3945783489579435,3459873459843759435) < 1286320822 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1286320857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but obviously this algorithm is exponential in k < 1286320877 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so, polynomial in number of vertices and numer of edge intersection? < 1286320877 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you point me to an algorithm? < 1286320882 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1286320890 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was about a 30 second lag in text entry < 1286320904 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, i typed all that before you gave me an alg < 1286320908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :D < 1286320954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm wait there's a subtlety here < 1286320977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding an edge it may have to intersect _several_ others < 1286321002 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but if you start at 1 and work your way up to k, you'll find that case first... < 1286321022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm right < 1286321032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1286321062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok if you have < k intersections you of course must have < k edges forcing them, so yeah < 1286321159 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which brings an interesting question: what's the maximum number of intersections an n node graph can contain? < 1286321181 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming that said graph is drawn in a minimal intersection way) < 1286321198 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, what's the fewest number of intersections the complete graph can contain < 1286321228 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(simple graphs only question) < 1286321261 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1286321282 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286321289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh wait there's another subtlety - removing an edge, then an arbitrary planar embedding of the rest may not be what gives minimal intersections when you add the edge back in < 1286321292 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, seems like it'll end up being O(n�) anyway < 1286321297 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286321297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be more serious < 1286321310 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1286321314 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1286321363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1286321368 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it may be that no planar embedding of the rest will yield a minimizer < 1286321388 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact one needs to find a planar embedding when two edges are removed or something < 1286321391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if it is NP-complete in some parameters it may be polynomial in others" < 1286321404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh right even that < 1286321406 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you mean? < 1286321465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: basically that the restricted problem of looking _just_ at < k edge intersecting graphs may be polynomial to decide for a fixed k even if it is exponential in k < 1286321472 0 :zeotrope!~vib@bas3-kitchener06-1128734150.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1286321490 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what oerjan said faster than i could < 1286321513 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can bound some parameter and what remains is polynomially solvable < 1286321516 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, parameter being # of intersecting edges. ok < 1286321570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: for example i recall that the problem of deciding whether one graph is isomorphic to a subgraph of another is NP-complete, but if the smaller graph is _fixed_ (or bounded in size) then it's a polynomial problem < 1286321595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the larger graph < 1286321599 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, obviously so < 1286321643 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you know there is a polynomial time algorithm for unifying graphs on the same number of nodes/edges < 1286321643 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: just so you know, you've been doing it in the wrong place. < 1286321660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: oh. goody. < 1286321665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: have you fixed it? :P < 1286321684 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the bedroom is the wrong place. next time try it in the library. < 1286321718 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so spaces are nothing? < 1286321721 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or zeros? < 1286321726 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(look out for Col. Mustard's lead pipe. you never know where he'll stick it.) < 1286321731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: both :P < 1286321735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1286321738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: um on a _fixed_ number of nodes/edges. unifying with the same but arbitrary is the graph isomorphism problem which is not known to be P (and is one of the most famous problems in NP to be neither known P or NP-complete) < 1286321738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: zeroes are uninitialised things < 1286321743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will get initialised when they scroll into view < 1286321748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no problem with assigning to them < 1286321751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaces are open space < 1286321761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a zero could be anything, you just don't know until you move so that it's in view < 1286321765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously we can't calculate infinite cells < 1286321774 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah yeah yeah, i know what i meant < 1286321806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, about convincing my dad: When I suggested that this was my normal weight, he said something along the lines of "Maybe. Some people are like that" or something to that effect < 1286321866 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular if the smaller fixed graph has k nodes, there is a trivial n^k*k! alg. for subgraph isomorphism < 1286321870 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant by obvious < 1286321931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1286321942 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, we still don't even know if there's a solution for the original problem with edge intersections bounded < 1286321948 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the tubes know < 1286322095 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i made them go to the center. :p < 1286322097 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay apparently this is a really really difficult question < 1286322138 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eat through walls :p < 1286322184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yeah you might want to check that it ==32 or ==0 < 1286322193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: also if you can do that, just s/0,0/x,y/ (or maybe y,x) < 1286322199 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1286322207 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yea < 1286322209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: or if you want it to eat items !=whatever '#' is :P < 1286322214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'd imagine graph drawing software would find such an algorithm useful if it existed < 1286322230 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1286322241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe that was how you thought of it?) < 1286322301 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is every $ worth the same? < 1286322316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no < 1286322324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if c==36:G+=randint(5,50) < 1286322340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly this is not determined until you hit it. totally quantum maan < 1286322347 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just gonna / for that < 1286322347 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of economy is that < 1286322353 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you were faster < 1286322359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286322360 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the quantum economy!!!!!! < 1286322407 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i thought of it in the context of the wire-crossing problem. what if the strong hypothesis turns out to be true for some definition of "state"? then, the next obvious question would be "what's the minimum number of crossings required?" < 1286322468 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so i immediately asked "well, how do we even check the number of crossings required for simple machines we already have state diagrams for?" < 1286322532 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought it must be a very hard problem, since there is a game about it (gPlanarity) < 1286322558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my intuition on the wire-crossing problem is sort of based on the fact that the 3-coloring problem is NP-complete even for planar graphs. < 1286322594 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you intuit that the strong hypothesis holds? < 1286322612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i think means you very easily can get full computational power without wire-crossing < 1286322619 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1286322639 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i agree < 1286322651 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a lot of reasons < 1286322659 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a interesting one too < 1286322697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I will give you $947595486749567945698456 in exchange for your code. < 1286322710 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT DONE YET < 1286322763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I hope you are omitting spaces! < 1286322771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: hint, that's zimbabwean dollars < 1286322783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And another set of hardsubs bites the dust. < 1286322802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headache vomit bleargh < 1286322816 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other reason i thought of it is exactly what you think: In fizzie's grasp language, programs are graphs, and they might be nonplanar. ais523 wants underlambda to be able to compile to any language, and so it would benefit from the ability to have output grasp programs have as few edge crossings as possible. < 1286322838 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so they are more human readable) < 1286322866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: found something maybe relevant < 1286322872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More generally, for any fixed constant k, it is possible to recognize in linear time the k-apex graphs, the graphs in which the removal of some carefully-chosen set of at most k vertices leads to a planar graph.[6] If k is variable, however, the problem is NP-complete." < 1286322880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex_graph < 1286322897 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'd take that much in ZWD, if it still existed. that's actually an appreciable amount of money despite hyperinflation. < 1286322926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but you'd better use it fast < 1286322974 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually bid on a 20trillion ZWD on ebay once < 1286322977 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't win tho < 1286322993 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear they aren't very high quality bills. just paper. < 1286323024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i imagine the second sentence strongly suggests that your problem is NP-complete for variable k too < 1286323031 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this apex graph thing implies that the general problem is probably NP-complete, but it still doesn't answer the fixed k question < 1286323033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er last < 1286323041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates hardcoded subs. < 1286323047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99 < 1286323057 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286323063 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am coding ai < 1286323064 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shh < 1286323065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :koed :| < 1286323069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha wat < 1286323075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you gimme your code before-ai too just in case it develops sentience < 1286323076 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTALLY < 1286323081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want sentience < 1286323083 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will be swooped < 1286323086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: also there are no attacks yet... < 1286323086 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is sentient already < 1286323111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but is it _sapient_ < 1286323118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :important distinction < 1286323132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1286323140 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it is even sentient < 1286323153 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but: is sapience possible without sentience? < 1286323165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's all good and well with an AI complaining of pain in its diodes, but that's not the same as intelligence < 1286323173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: restate that without using the words sapience and sentience

< 1286236818 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I want to write a compiler now. < 1286236822 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit life is awesome, have you ever noticed? < 1286236830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that deutsch was only gebrochen due to a missing suffix on the gebrochen < 1286236834 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can DO SO MANY COOL THINGS in it. < 1286236837 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, every day! < 1286236853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Hah. < 1286236854 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to go buy bandages now < 1286236857 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1286236862 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1286236870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Headphones are awesome. < 1286236879 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But LIFE moreso! < 1286237107 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: My preferred tags for an album are completely at odds with the completely official, multiply-confirmed ones. You may now maul me < 1286237442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: How so? < 1286237478 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'll say in /msg since it's irrelevant and long < 1286237562 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise < 1286237585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, TV rips of series that are on DVD make baby Jesus cry. < 1286238804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x `seq` () `seq` x _probably_ == an evaluated copy of x <-- i think that's exactly equivalent to x by definition < 1286238817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm right < 1286238835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So does Nazism. < 1286238837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as usual x will only be evaluated if the whole thing is < 1286238926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: i don't see why rnf can't just be a -> a < 1286238973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm rnf is just one of the evaluation strategies right? now what if you wanted a strategy that did _not_ evaluate... it couldn't reasonably be a -> a < 1286238991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1286239003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it just deepseq's thing? maybe not < 1286239014 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1286239024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall this from Control.Parallel.Strategies < 1286239098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rnf is deepseq essentially, but there are others that evaluate stuff in parallel instead < 1286239304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: HURRY UP WITH THAT MIDTERM < 1286239315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is part of DeepSeq though in pikhq's code < 1286239318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Make your compiler MORE AWESOME < 1286239351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: done < 1286239357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: okay. < 1286239368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: should i expect an email back from the mathNEWS people or will it just appear? < 1286239371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the next issue) < 1286239377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh right rnf is a method of DeepSeq? but it's also the right type for those strategies iirc < 1286239378 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: one or the other < 1286239385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's so helpful < 1286239387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1286239403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src DeepSeq < 1286239403 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Take a stress pill and think things over. < 1286239419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t rnf < 1286239420 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (NFData a) => a -> Done < 1286239426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1286239494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess Done = () < 1286239564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Apparently Civilization (the original) had barbarian diplomats. <-- currently on front page of reddit: http://i.imgur.com/kWy5z.jpg < 1286239578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's from the newest version < 1286239605 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn those barbarian paratroopers! < 1286239655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diplomatic paratroopers < 1286239669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wow, how do you guys even have a tv show < 1286239669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1286239674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a definition of tv equal to yt < 1286239680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you guys = most vague use of tha tterm ever < 1286239718 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no kidding < 1286239762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that term < 1286239779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: my current perception of it is that about 10 people go to your university and they all write mathNEWS < 1286239788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not attempt to disillusion me of this notion < 1286239898 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286239930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banshee. *It fucking does video metadata*. < 1286239941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must try. < 1286239971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NO < 1286239973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banshee is AWFUL < 1286239984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Imagine iTunes. Now imagine transplanting iTunes onto Mono. < 1286239994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloat defined. < 1286240004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It most likely just stores it in a database. < 1286240006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like iTunes. < 1286240008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god. < 1286240014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is revolting. < 1286240038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY CANT THERE BE A NICE VIDEO PLAYER < 1286240047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *cough* You know what this is leading up to... < 1286240052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET'S INVENT OUR OWN PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE AND GUI LIBRARY < 1286240055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO VIDEO PLAYER, AFTER ALL THAT < 1286240079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The chronology is sometimes associated with Young Earth Creationism, which holds that the universe was created only a few millennia ago." Umm... Wikipedia. < 1286240082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean 6000 years. < 1286240106 0 :Kordalien!~chatzilla@adsl-71-141-88-226.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286240309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well do _all_ YEC agree on the precise date? < 1286240322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely recalls no < 1286240485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also change the entire distribution infrastructure. < 1286240495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course < 1286240501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's 5,000 -- 10,000 years basically < 1286240507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not millennia < 1286240514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually a nice GUI library for C would be nice. < 1286240522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that _is_ millennia < 1286240540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Say, make it so that all broadcast shows are sent out via an RSS feed alike, with a BitTorrent alike. < 1286240547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: With archives, of course, instantly downloadable. < 1286240555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :millennium means 1000 years, millennia is the plural < 1286240573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh i thought you mean software distribution < 1286240574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::^) < 1286240590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc there was some work done on streaming bittorrent but i have no idea how that works < 1286240599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with it being out-of-order < 1286240646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wikimedia is currently testing it -- a combination of HTTP and BitTorrent, actually. < 1286240656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ew. < 1286240680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use HTTP to fetch anything needed immediately, use BitTorrent to try and fetch stuff that's later in the stream. < 1286240689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: grotesque :) < 1286240768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ain't it though? < 1286240995 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I want to write an article, what should it be about? < 1286241015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: write an errata for my errata < 1286241024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i can send you the full version < 1286241031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1286241039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: my errata is pretty indisputably factually correct in every way that it actually tries to be factual, so this will be difficult) < 1286241049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1286241064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "Actually, this IS valid Python code! Because I say so!" < 1286241064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"errata: this article appears to be properly researched. In order to alleviate this concern, the following changes have been made" < 1286241088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I approve. < 1286241101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I have this sneaking suspicion that gmail's spam filter doesn't like my post, what with it being long and markuppy... < 1286241106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*email not post < 1286241114 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on, I'll ask CorruptED to check right now < 1286241179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I am so glad the editors are corrupt. < 1286241194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I also sent a reply to that one correcting an error caused by gmail. < 1286241223 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on, the email account is busy < 1286241276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to go asap < 1286241351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1286241388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am, however, insane enough to wait to see if it's received yet < 1286241391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because dammit this stuff is IMPORTANT! < 1286241411 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what's the article about? < 1286241414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :receipt confirmed < 1286241442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: & the reply? okay. < 1286241444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now put it on the front page < 1286241475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: Errata for the article "Python Implementation of ed" by *null, as printed in issue 114.1 of the University of Waterloo Faculty of Mathematics Student Newspaper mathNEWS. < 1286241490 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: can you send me a copy so that I can write errata to it? < 1286241502 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathNews, fun paper < 1286241521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: certainly. < 1286241525 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1286241531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sec. < 1286241538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://filebin.ca/wpeogf/mathnews-errata.html < 1286241553 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Firstly, it appears that this article was written by a Brit. To correct for this, remove every usage of grammar." < 1286241558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, it's not HTML, but.) < 1286241559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what :D < 1286241570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the most solid point is the last one, btw < 1286241572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indisputable < 1286241577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Printed in a newspaper with an incorrectly spelled name. While &mn; is an excellent newspaper, it unfortunately has a major blight against it: the incorrect spelling of its name as ``&mn;'', rather than the correct ``mathsNEWS''. This is the most severe flaw.]] < 1286241744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so yours will appear in the next issue? < 1286241750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the same? <-- that would be super-ludicrous < 1286241835 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: quite comprehensive < 1286241860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: bear in mind the original article is like six lines :P < 1286241870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will squeeze every drop of blood from this stone < 1286241931 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*null must be trembling < 1286241949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1286241951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever he is! < 1286241956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darned canucks < 1286241965 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dare he fill such an esteemed paper with garbage < 1286241973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES I KNOW the rest of it is so accurate < 1286241982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw, i expect similar treatment of getting the gold master copy of yours before it's published < 1286241988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can publish my meta^2errata < 1286241992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1286241999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Y'know, fuck Hulu. It falls so short of what it could be. < 1286242009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah. and fuck Hawaii too! < 1286242010 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egg foo young is delicious D: < 1286242011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A set of RSS feeds attached to BitTorrent for me to gleefully download. < 1286242013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i leave you with this. < 1286242014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnight. < 1286242015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye. < 1286242016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1286242037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no ads. < 1286242065 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still technically piracy < 1286242070 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*buzz kill* < 1286242091 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I agree < 1286242094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: Hulu is... Actually not piracy. < 1286242105 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about RSS + torrents < 1286242136 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is definitely more convenient < 1286242167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the point. :) < 1286242185 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people frown on the piracy part < 1286242242 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Hulu doesn't work outside of the USA < 1286242270 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so torrents are the only other option for many people < 1286242322 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :country restricted content, what is this 1970? < 1286242368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as they're concerned, yes. < 1286242375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also: SCREW FLASH. < 1286242379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLASH SUCKS FOR PLAYING VIDEO. < 1286242383 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, he's gone :( < 1286242619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash sucks. Flash really, really, really sucks. < 1286242629 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes it does < 1286242870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flash < 1286242876 0 :Flash!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, registered < 1286242878 0 :Flash!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1286243205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 7^3/40 < 1286243206 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8.575 < 1286244806 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1286246726 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://unitedcats.wordpress.com/2010/10/04/this-october-has-5-fridays-5-saturdays-and-5-sundays-all-in-one-month-it-happens-only-once-in-823-years/ < 1286246729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it. < 1286246732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I surrender. < 1286246735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate humanity. < 1286246783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1286246825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two of my friends "liked" a page claiming that < 1286246924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so the first part is actually correct < 1286246993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second obviously false for two different reasons i can think of < 1286247017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What tipped me off was noticing that that's the same (or, at least, a superset of) months whose 1 is on a Friday and which have 31 days < 1286247036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think you may be the second person I linked that to who didn't actually read the post < 1286247043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) it only depends on what day the first is on (2) the calendar _actually_ repeats every 400 years < 1286247053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i've started reading it < 1286247066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just thinking about why it's false first :D < 1286247291 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1286247413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it also depends on the month having 31 days < 1286247442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i mean the year variation < 1286247461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1286247495 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, depends on what day the 1st is, and whether or not it's a leap year, right? < 1286247613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_for october_ the leap year doesn't matter < 1286247644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh? < 1286247658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the first day of october, not of the year < 1286247660 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we talking Jan 1st's effects on October, or the day that Oct 1 is? < 1286247661 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1286247674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh one really has to spell out everything here < 1286247695 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1286248140 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286248277 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAJOR FAIL: (roughly translated) "The Baddie of cholesterol is LDL, sources of which for example include cheeses.". < 1286248293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheesy science < 1286248332 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only one cholesterol. LDL is not cholesterol. And Cheeses don't contain LDL. < 1286248545 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the original is apparently (roughly translated): "The baddie of cholesterol is LDL, which is only contained in hard animal fats. For instance cheeses include those".". Just as much fail: Animal fats do not contain LDL. < 1286248638 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) "the baddie of cholesterol" doesn't have to be cholesterol < 1286248649 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) "source" doesn't mean "container" < 1286248656 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fail is you < 1286248756 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LDL is made by liver. I have no idea if LDL survives digestion proceses. Probably not. < 1286248896 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor are animal fats source of LDL... < 1286248917 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, there's lot more fail in this article... < 1286249025 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, its based on recomendations by (national) heart disease association, so no wonder... < 1286249051 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah those idiots know nothing about cholesterol < 1286249099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was taught that HDL was "good" and LDL was "bad" < 1286249173 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are subtypes of LDL. Some better, some sightly worse. Then there's real nasty kind that shows up as "LDL" (but isn't) on common panels. < 1286249247 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and statins (cholesterol-lowering drugs) don't do much to that real nasty kind... < 1286249348 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, the common way of determining LDL yields quite wild results that are often quite wrong. < 1286249373 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HDL is measured and total cholesterol is measured, those are fairly accurate). < 1286249519 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That kind being "real nasty", one would expect that it would be quite strongly associated with heart disease. Indeed it is. < 1286249712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nutrition is much more complicated than "X is good for you and Y is bad". < 1286249766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except that modern, industrial processed foods tend to be bad for you. :P < 1286249873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, and typical American portion sizes. < 1286249883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... Pretty obviously bad. < 1286250190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should start eating typical American portion sizes < 1286250223 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But _WHY_ are typical american portion sizes so large? < 1286250297 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why is it pretty obviously bad? < 1286250338 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it shouldn't be possible and indicates that something is badly wrong? < 1286250381 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what shouldn't be possible? < 1286250402 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The huge american portition sizes... < 1286250413 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why shouldn't they be possible? < 1286250418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Imagine a gigantic feast. We call it a "meal". < 1286250440 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm sure you realize that's total bullshit < 1286250440 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because very few should be able eat so much at once... < 1286250453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to eat more, so... < 1286250454 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: nobody has any problems, really < 1286250472 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just come to a restaurant and go crazy < 1286250489 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "Just eat more and excercise less" is just as bad advice as "eat less and excercise more". < 1286250512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1286250518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: 64 fl oz of soda (about 2L). As a single serving. < 1286250523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need I say more? < 1286250542 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's not a standard serving size. < 1286250573 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i understand europeans perpetuating retarded stereotypes about americans, but you're american yourself and still doing that? < 1286250576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you're more likely to find 32 fl oz. < 1286250576 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty dumb < 1286250598 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here large bottle of soda is 1.5l... And the standard bottle (which is apparently meant as "serving" (ignore what manufacturers try to claim) is 0.5l. < 1286250601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With free refills. < 1286250641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tends to insist on small soda. If I get a large cup, I'll fill it up, then drink it all, and that's rather... uncomfortable < 1286250672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what, exactly, is wrong with eating more? < 1286250678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For thin persons < 1286250688 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than what? < 1286250704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/ryany/BigMacExtraValueMeal.jpg < 1286250752 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yup. so? that's actually smaller than most meals at a restaurant. < 1286250761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 3,000 calories. < 1286250767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh < 1286250779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the daily amount, 20,000? Or is it 2,000? < 1286250784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 2,000. < 1286250801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's what the FDA bases their recommendations on. < 1286250817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could just eat that and not need to eat anything else for the day? < 1286250853 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, taking in too many calories isn't good because high metabolism isn't good (and the alternatives are even worse). < 1286250861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, because it's fairly devoid of nutrients. It just has the caloric content that it was declared one needs. < 1286250870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a single meal. < 1286250870 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there're 1350 calories in a large big mac meal < 1286250873 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop trolling < 1286250879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: That's a super size big mac meal. < 1286250937 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second law of thermodynamics: "Calorie is not an calorie.". :-) < 1286250943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Erm, sorry. I gave the wrong damned number. < 1286250946 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a < 1286250949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: That's... 1580. My fault. < 1286250953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still bloody absurd. < 1286250958 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there you go < 1286250959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just significantly less so. < 1286250968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my pasta that I eat each night has over 1k calories < 1286250984 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 1580 for a larger than normal portion < 1286251005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some people, it's larger than normal. < 1286251007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what are the chances of me being able to talk to a competent person somewhere in the US? < 1286251013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For others, that's smaller than normal. < 1286251017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a nutrition plan worked out < 1286251055 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Pretty slim (unless you pick carefully). < 1286251062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(granted, you're talking a small but fat portion of the population when you're discussing the people who actually do stuff like have multiple Big Macs in a sitting) < 1286251102 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With soda and fries? < 1286251125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Well, of course. < 1286251157 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't the "big mac guy" in "Supersize Me", well... Not fat? < 1286251174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite perplexed about that as well. < 1286251219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it does demonstrate that absurd amounts of food won't automatically make you fat. < 1286251261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My step-mother constantly tells me that I'm not eating enough < 1286251265 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, its about fat in - fat out. Not calories in - calories out (unless you define the latter quantities to make it a tautology). < 1286251266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably true, but still < 1286251275 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that's at storage boundary). < 1286251288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I want advice, I can't get it from her, no matter how competent, or not, she may be, because she'll drive me up the wall < 1286251302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Well, calories are nothing more than a rough estimate of how much energy you get out of that food, so... Yeah. < 1286251305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She does drive me up the wall < 1286251347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incredibly rough when you consider that there's freaking sugar water as a common beverage.) < 1286251353 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was fat_absorbed - fat_burned, then it would be just plain _wrong_. < 1286251385 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's fat synthethis term as well, and it certainly can be nontrivial. < 1286251582 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not to mention, same macronutrients can provode different amounts of energy depending on amounts of other macronutrients... < 1286251664 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and then there is stuff like adjustable efficiency of ATP production... < 1286251686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Shit's more complex than burning the dry food and seeing the change in temperature -- who would've thought! < 1286251702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, change in temperature of the water above. < 1286251731 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even all fats are equivalent calories. Let alone fats, proteins and cabohydrates... < 1286251747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would love to just be able to inject something that could deliver ATP to all his cells < 1286251872 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad that with what all cells can use (glucose), even few extra grams injected (fast) would be toxic... < 1286251910 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1286251952 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, something like 3 grams in fast injection would cause your blood sugar to go to toxic levels... < 1286251952 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a grassy mount Or set with two feet Gules winged Sable and in base a bar wavy Sable inscribed with zeros and ones Or < 1286251999 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it would take about 4 if blood sugar is slightly low. < 1286252092 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Amount of glucose circulating in blood of normal adult under normal conditions: About 5 grams). < 1286252208 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, one could inject fatty acids. Considerably less toxic (but not all cells can use those... OTOH, body can produce glucose for those cells that absolutely need it). < 1286252246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, just bring about the singularity. That'll solve it. < 1286252310 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286252342 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1286252792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you stupid Flash video, you do not need to keep buffering, there is already a 5% of the video buffer and increasing. < 1286252822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever wrote this: you suck at programming and you should be ashamed of yourself. < 1286252851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Adobe: you suck at programming and you should be ashamed of yourself. < 1286252962 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amen < 1286253135 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1286253182 0 :Kordalien!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1286253593 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With "why are they eating such huge porititons" I meant things like why the satiety isn't kicking in? Why doesn't the body downregulate hunger and upregulate energy consumption to keep the weight in check? < 1286253892 0 :flippo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lack of exercise. The metabolism has nothing to calibrate with. < 1286254062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does running to school/running for the bus count as excersize? < 1286254075 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The amount of excercise required for that is very small (one pretty much has to go out of one's way to get that little)... < 1286254127 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1286254137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I presume that means "you need to get out of bed and walk to the kitchen every now and then" kind of "little". < 1286254161 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, within that order of magnitude... < 1286254191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Point being that you'd have to make a point of it to not do that. < 1286254207 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention, excercise isn't important for weight control. One can also see this by comparing energy expended in NEAT vs EAT(a.k.a. excercise). < 1286254246 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if one has shortage of energy, then the excercise levels could drop a lot... < 1286254253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'd imagine it helps somewhat, in that it does actually expend energy. < 1286254305 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When one is talking about energies expended by ten hour walk (or was it run?)... < 1286254360 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mechanisms body uses to waste energy easily waste order of magnitude more than one could burn by excercising. < 1286254415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anywas, all the exercise in the world won't help you if you use more energy than you ingest. < 1286254421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/anywas/anyways/ < 1286254428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1286254432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/more/less/ < 1286254449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though if you use more energy than you ingest, you might be having trouble as well. :P < 1286254537 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some dangerous chemicals sometimes used for weight loss. If one overdoses on them, the primary toxic effect is that they make body literally cook itself producing energy for use. < 1286254572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... Frightening. < 1286254590 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, your appetite should go down a lot as well when weight goes up... < 1286254597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any nice chemicals for weight gain? < 1286254627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "Force-feeding", I believe is the term. < 1286254640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Though it's rather unlikely you actually need weight gain. < 1286254683 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, I think I know couple, but they are not nice ones... < 1286254685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presuming reasonable health and a lack of relevant mental disorders, of course. < 1286254856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a kid, Supposedly, in an attempt to get me to eat on my own, suggested by a doctor, my parents didn't try to force me to eat, hoping I would eat on my own. < 1286254859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1286254904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, you may have a disorder then. < 1286254941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to read/edit a silly game story for meeeee? < 1286254966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does it involve Americans being fatasses? < 1286254975 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It /could/. < 1286254981 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't, but it /could/. < 1286254984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough! < 1286255034 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY, I wrote a silly but appropriately-over-the-top opening sequence for ZEE: http://codu.org/tmp/story.txt < 1286255050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just asked my dad, he said he thinks I might have imagined being told that < 1286255055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK FALLIBLE MEMORY < 1286255065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK IT IN THE ASS < 1286255076 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So your disorder is just delusions, not dietary problems. < 1286255096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, since when is being human a disorder? < 1286255105 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my dad may be mistaken :3 < 1286255118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Since roughly 1.5 million years ago, I'd say. < 1286255220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Quite nice. < 1286255260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that's awesome < 1286255289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, you need more time. < 1286255300 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN'T MANUFACTURE TIME < 1286255306 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For ZEE, what I need is more workforce! < 1286255315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get cracking on the singularity! That'll solve it! < 1286255386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is sensing a pattern here < 1286255448 0 :pineal_aenimal7!pineal_aen@209.97.91.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286255499 0 :pineal_aenimal7!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello esoterrorists :) < 1286255529 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALLAAAAH < 1286255534 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alaaaaan Turing < 1286255561 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: ... I love you. < 1286255574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO suicideBomb < 1286255576 0 :pineal_aenimal7!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pineal_aenimal < 1286255604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could also be a point about people thinking this is esoterica < 1286255620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1286255649 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Unsafe indeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed! < 1286255719 0 :pineal_aenimal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats good < 1286255832 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-70-79.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286255832 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1286255832 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1286255847 0 :Kordalien!~chatzilla@adsl-71-141-88-226.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286256059 0 :pineal_aenimal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any one familiar with david wilcock? < 1286256181 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheheh < 1286256184 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cock < 1286256208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh dear < 1286256285 0 :pineal_aenimal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alrighty. < 1286256332 0 :pineal_aenimal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps pineal_aenimal around a bit with a large trout < 1286256542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1286256742 0 :pineal_aenimal!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1286257028 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay xmonad < 1286257036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay cdparanoia. < 1286257202 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdparanoia? < 1286257265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It rips CDs. And is sufficiently paranoid about it to ensure a perfect rip if at all possible. < 1286257277 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286257310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And does nothing else. It just dumps WAVs to disk. < 1286257320 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO similar to xmonad. < 1286257329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if"? < 1286257357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It can't fix a disc made 100% opaque. < 1286257408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having some trouble parsing that. You can't mean "literally unreadable by anything", can you? < 1286257423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's too trivial < 1286257443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I guess portions could be fully opaque? Or am I just confused today < 1286257446 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Too trivial for "if at all possible" < 1286257456 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Give me a corner case. < 1286257460 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Here's one. < 1286257463 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : No, not that one. < 1286257505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is tired :/ < 1286257718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, it also often functions as a circumvention device. < 1286257814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some CD copy protection schemes function by introducing intentional errors that a dedicated CD player will ignore) < 1286257895 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of people have single-purpose CD players nowadays. < 1286258095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, like, uh. < 1286258099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got nothing. < 1286258121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll note that CD copy protection schemes kinda fell out of favor after a few years. :) < 1286258510 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1286258695 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1286259166 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286259172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please help me. I tried to compile TeX but it just made a lot of errors, and it won't compile. < 1286259174 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the errors: http://sprunge.us/SEhT < 1286259263 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please tell me what I did wrong? < 1286259639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the esoteric topics in computing channel cannot save you from Pascal. < 1286259691 0 :Kordalien!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854] < 1286259732 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Save me from Pascal? I don't generally program in Pascal, but this is a program that is Pascal. < 1286259838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some command-line parameter I need to add? < 1286259849 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't a clue, never built TeX myself. < 1286260106 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which options of GPC cause it to emulate Pascal-H? < 1286260840 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1286260992 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1286260995 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286261300 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1286261476 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need to redefine alpha_file (in section 25)? I probably also have to redefine othercases < 1286261687 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-24-172.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1286262082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1286262488 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1286262726 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it to compile with no errors, but now it complains about 'his.tex' < 1286262756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WANTS A MATE < 1286262792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe a divorce < 1286262802 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot find anything in the program about what 'his.tex' is supposed to be. < 1286263033 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286263131 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I cannot find on Google or Wikipedia about what 'his.tex' is supposed to be, either.) < 1286263339 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286263445 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could probably be done, although it would take a very long time, is looking at the source-codes of TeX and rewriting it in Enhanced CWEB, changing things as necessary as you are moving along. < 1286263508 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wareya < 1286263535 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1286263698 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1286263710 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you willing to collaborate on this project? < 1286264093 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1286264093 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1286264727 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1286265254 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286265599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1286265600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1286265647 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1286265719 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286266418 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286266859 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286267275 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286267462 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1286269013 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1286269282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1286269302 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1286269319 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1286269415 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1286270474 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-240.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286271073 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286271990 0 :iGO!~xk001@62.169.102.228.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1286272370 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1286272451 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-13-240.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286272628 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1286274666 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1286276101 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself < 1286277340 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286278736 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-242.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1286279664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286281037 0 :Sgeo!~ubuntu@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286281201 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286281536 0 :iGO!iGO@62.169.118.135.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1286282530 0 :webquint!803d12bc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.61.18.188 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286282747 0 :webquint!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1286283193 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1286283942 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286284243 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286284334 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1286286185 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286286229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my paper was accepted < 1286286233 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1286286259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now what's going on? < 1286286268 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1286286269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is working fine, but I don't seem to be able to create new Internet connections < 1286286273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not web or email, anyway < 1286286289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, started working again < 1286286292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just being really slow < 1286288728 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.114.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286288967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1286288983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1286289012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the Internet here is crazy < 1286289025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sometimes doesn't form new connections for something like a minute, even though existing connections work fine < 1286289036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least, for web and email) < 1286289129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:23:45 Well, its based on recomendations by (national) heart disease association, so no wonder... < 1286289129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:24:11 yeah those idiots know nothing about cholesterol < 1286289144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm glad our channel op is such a fine, upstanding citizen who believes everything the american government tells him. < 1286289174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better check your BMI < 1286289183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that at uni? < 1286289187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*this < 1286289208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1286289262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: take over the networking department < 1286289279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, can Wooble actually do that while he's on hold? < 1286289281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(deputise) < 1286289294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm or is deputisation one of those things even non-players can do... < 1286289357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being on hold hardly stops anything < 1286289360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like BlogNomic < 1286289371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, it just lets people oust you from offices, and makes you ineligible for certain things < 1286289390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as winning when everyone else is winning < 1286289393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1286289447 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this about agora? < 1286289476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286289537 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked at that once. seems awfully complicated (as any nomic that has been in existence for years upon years must) < 1286289558 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i GUESS it at LEAST has fewer rules than certain versions of DnD... < 1286289589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you should publish a book about nutrition :-) < 1286289632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Here is a quick summary of Java build systems: Q: What's the difference between Ant and Maven? A: The creator of Ant has apologised. < 1286289641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see why they don't just use make, it seems to work fine < 1286289657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, find | xargs javac works fine if you don't care about minimal recompiles < 1286289666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, seriously? Someone apologized for making widely-used software? < 1286289698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it actually had a source for that statement, http://blogs.tedneward.com/2005/08/22/When+Do+You+Use+XML+Again.aspx < 1286289710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ant is awful < 1286289862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like an apology for an aspect of Ant < 1286289934 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it sometimes doesn't form new connections for something like a minute, even though existing connections work fine <-- maybe some firewall issue? < 1286289964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:43:49 yay, my paper was accepted < 1286289964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which? < 1286290028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one about hardware compilation < 1286290053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, we generalised a previous result from "programs that type in SCI can be compiled into hardware" to "programs that type in ICA can be compiled into hardware, with a few exceptions" < 1286290071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty nice, because unlike SCI, ICA doesn't have a bunch of arbitrary restrictoins < 1286290074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*restrictions < 1286290097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was really much the same as a TC-ness proof, showing one lang compiles into another... < 1286290185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how's the Complex Systems publication going? ;) < 1286290204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :revise-and-resubmit phase < 1286290214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with instructions that were too banal for me to be interested in them < 1286290325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1286291237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:12:52 Please help me. I tried to compile TeX but it just made a lot of errors, and it won't compile. < 1286291241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you don't compile TeX itself... < 1286291244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you compile the C translation < 1286291253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's written in a crazy 70s Pascal that Knuth used < 1286291269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:24:05 What could probably be done, although it would take a very long time, is looking at the source-codes of TeX and rewriting it in Enhanced CWEB, changing things as necessary as you are moving along. < 1286291271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, the C translation < 1286291274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:28:30 Are you willing to collaborate on this project? < 1286291275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell no < 1286291303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some point I need to figure out what Enhanced CWEB is < 1286291310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even tell if it's a programming language or not < 1286291340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know Knuth's CWEB? < 1286291347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1286291351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know Knuth's WEB? < 1286291362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again no, but I've vaguely heard of it < 1286291382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WEB = the first literate programming system; TeX + Pascal. TeX is written in it, for instance. < 1286291398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assign blocks of code to a name-with-spaces, include it later, macros, documentation all around it, etc. < 1286291401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: CWEB = that for C. < 1286291405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1286291410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Enhanced CWEB = what happens when you apply zzo38 to CWEB and peel it off after a few days. < 1286291414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Enhanced CWEB is a zzo38 version < 1286291434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the converse of Not Invented Here? < 1286291447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you assume that the entire world uses software that was written by you? < 1286291471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to be unique to zzo38 and Microsoft < 1286291500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: zzo38 has NIH too, though! < 1286291514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it tends to be Not Invented Here, But That's Okay, I'll Cannibalise It < 1286291517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the converse of something being true doesn't mean that the thing itself is false < 1286291521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1286291526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1286291532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Used Elsewhere < 1286291536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Used Everywhere < 1286291550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft: NIH, UE; zzo38: NIHBTOICI, UE < 1286292228 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286292664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, btw perhaps you know I'm against eyecandy animations and such? Today I realised what exactly is the issue with a lot of them < 1286292760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they are slow enough that you end up having to wait before you can do whatever you planned to do next. For minimising windows on OS X, it is quite fast but still, I had to wait before I could start reading the text in the window behind due to the animation covering it, only a fraction of a second, but still enough to be annoying. < 1286292792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar issues seem to apply to many other such animations. < 1286292803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's just bad design. < 1286292848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A *good* hiding animation -- one that smoothly indicates what's happening -- would last only a few milliseconds, and the window would go semi-transparent too. < 1286292858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps even simply fade out *while on the way* to the dock. < 1286292878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would help indicate what has happened -- believe it or not, your brain *can* act more efficiently with these cues -- without being irritating. < 1286292878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed that would work, but that was not what that version of OS X did at least. < 1286292887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw, you change and speed that animation up. < 1286292890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you can < 1286292901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change: system preferences -> set it to the one that isn't genie, stops it being irritating as fuck < 1286292904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed up: some terminal bullshit < 1286292906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, was helping someone with a thing, not my computer < 1286292909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1286292918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it wasn't the genie one < 1286292921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is far worse < 1286292949 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286292971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cpressey < 1286293040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but anyway, the os x minimising is just a rather extreme example of it (especially the genie style), there are lots of other such animations on both windows (vista or later only) and OS X that takes a fraction of a second too long. Sure there are some that don't annoy, but I guess you don't really remember those. Selective reporting and such. < 1286293064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern UIs aren't designed with HCI principles in mind; news at 11. < 1286293081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286293084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jef Raskin died, now even less people care; news at 11. < 1286293087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fewer < 1286293135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the "zoom icon in dock while mouse is above it" is instantaneous as far as I remember, and is actually slightly helpful, at least if set to sane parameters for zoom level and such < 1286293167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not instantaneous -- it's... continuous. < 1286293175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, literally, the zoom changes focus even half-way between two icons. < 1286293184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first hover over has a short animation to do the first zoom-and-expand of the Dock. < 1286293187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I meant like: < 1286293206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't take half a second if you quickly move your mouse down from middle of screen to the dock < 1286293206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never turned it on; I could never predict where my mouse should go to reach an icon, due to the zooming. < 1286293210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1286293211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as it is above it is zoomed < 1286293229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably helps a lot if you have tons of stuff in your Dock and thus have it at a small size. < 1286293236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1286293312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or menus/submenus that takes a fraction of a second before they open. iirc windows xp had something like that. Was annoying. < 1286293324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an animation, but utterly pointless and not helpful at all < 1286293327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uhh, as for submenus, GTK has that too. < 1286293329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does KDE. < 1286293331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does OS X. < 1286293336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does *every interface you use*. < 1286293340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shorter delay, but it's there. < 1286293352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise moving your mouse across tons of elements quickly would have menus flash everywhere. < 1286293353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes, short enough to not notice, that's the key < 1286293355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disorienting, to say the least. < 1286293367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Try it now; I bet you will notice. < 1286293368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows xp had "long enough to be annoying" < 1286293379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's certainly a noticeable delay here, just not an annoying one or one you think about. < 1286293380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yeah. < 1286293383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could tweak that with TweakUI. < 1286293389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed there is a tiny delay < 1286293403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes indeed, but why not make it right from the start < 1286293413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "It seemed like a good idea at the time." < 1286293426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TweakUI was released after XP. I don't think they changed the delay since at least 2000. < 1286293429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe even before that. < 1286293440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TweakUI's policy is basically "EXPOSE EVERYTHING", not "LET PEOPLE FIX EVERYTHING" < 1286293452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as for menus all over the place, not really annoying, classic mac OS used to do it that way. As do some other windowing toolkits < 1286293458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to run OS X in VirtualBox. < 1286293461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on *nix) < 1286293462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, it can do EFI." < 1286293471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'll have to emulate a 32-bit machine so this will be *fun fun fun*. < 1286293482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, it's distributed on a DVD, isn't it. < 1286293484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan abandoned. < 1286293514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I have a copy of Leopard; no, I don't have an optical drive.) < 1286293528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the base install of an OS doesn't fit on a single CD, something is wrong. :P < 1286293545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah! Fuck you Slackware and Fedora! < 1286293551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware is well-known for its bloat. < 1286293553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. < 1286293574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm.... ubuntu: single cd, arch; single cd. And I don't mean netinstall. < 1286293582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo: single cd last I looked < 1286293593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though iirc they had a livedvd as well < 1286293594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's simply a different distribution philosophy -- with the Slackware CDs, you can install anything you want. < 1286293606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286293611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It *does* suck, though. < 1286293625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it isn't indicative of bloat. < 1286293634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, in OS X's case, it basically is.) < 1286293643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To be fair, there is also a whole lot of stuff on there.) < 1286293656 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also note I said "base install". The definition of base install is rather fuzzy indeed. I would say it is completely different for arch and ubuntu for example < 1286293666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, you can fit your base install on a single CD just by defining a base install that's small. < 1286293666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1286293668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari, all the i* programs, GarageBand, every single damn developer tool, misc. applications < 1286293676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Base install: The kernel!" < 1286293676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1286293683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can just about get Debian on a small stack of floppies still. < 1286293696 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as i have butterflies flitting around on my desktop i'm happy < 1286293704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the *installer* still takes up 2 floppies. < 1286293735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, has some minimum requirements. Bootable, useable package manager, some way to edit config files, a shell, can connect to network. Arch is pretty close to that minimum. < 1286293766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I... Can do that on a single floppy disk. < 1286293770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Barely*. < 1286293826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed, it might be possible. However arch comes with a usable environment on the livecd too. Like you get a shell there. Useful to start any non-standard stuff like software raid or dmcrypt or such. < 1286293873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and fitting that on a floppy as well would be.... tricky < 1286293891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Namespaces in C: solve. < 1286293903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, besides the kernel I need to boot my system, all the drivers I need compiled in and almost everything else turned off is about 2.5 MB iirc. < 1286293908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-64 though < 1286293913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, you can have VESA. < 1286293917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't want VESA. < 1286293937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I do have VESA fb :P, and I have a system with just VGA, no fb support at all < 1286293943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure of kernel size < 1286293956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, howsabout figuring out a way to have functions on structures look nicer to call, and we can go from there and use that for namespaces. < 1286293957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not going to boot it atm < 1286293978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that was a fun conversation < 1286293984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what was? < 1286293997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking to my supervisor and another researcher about implementing the fixed-point combinator in hardware < 1286293999 0 :yorick!yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1286294038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather unambitiously, they agreed that even third-order fixedpoint combinators ((a->a)->(a->a))->a were practically useful < 1286294047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Namespaces in C: solve. <-- hm, not impossible, what about having some syntax sugar for appending a prefix to all identifiers, I guess that would approach C++ name mangling quickly, though with just namespaces you could do far cleaner than that < 1286294054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think you can get up to arbitrary orders (with the caveat that such circuits always have a risk of running out of memory) < 1286294064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean without modifying the language. < 1286294078 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah... < 1286294087 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286294088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is preprocessing allowed? < 1286294090 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: #define, #define, #define. done. < 1286294100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, _ for all identifiers? < 1286294104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can put everything as function pointers in a structure, but (1) that's ugly to construct and (2) you'd start wanting to be able to do foo->x(...) for a structure foo to mean foo->x(foo, ...) which is harder :-) < 1286294109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but normally you want to be able to import namespaces < 1286294112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's ugly and makes everything unconcise < 1286294115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not necessarily < 1286294126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even being able to just rename a namespace temporarily would be fine < 1286294128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. gui to g < 1286294131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that too < 1286294149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is non-cpp preprocessing allowed? < 1286294186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean, with a custom preprocessor this would be simple. You could make one small enough to compile as the first step in the makefile or such < 1286294209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now bbl really < 1286294224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m4! < 1286294231 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 m4 < 1286294237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286294309 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what about preprocessing? < 1286294337 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only #define did pattern-matching. you could hack something together quite nicely i think < 1286294339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: cpp, sure < 1286294345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have to, I guess a simple textual substitution too < 1286294349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nothing that involves tons of parsing :P < 1286294353 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but what about? < 1286294360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: ? < 1286294369 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you want to accomplish? < 1286294371 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goal? < 1286294375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above....... < 1286294397 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't find < 1286294415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Namespaces in C: solve. < 1286294416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onwards < 1286294417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if upp (which I haven't actually written yet, properly) would work for this? < 1286294423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: upp? *scared* < 1286294430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Underlambda Preprocessor < 1286294444 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what about namespaces in C < 1286294444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically just does literal textual substitutions, but with a couple of interesting twists < 1286294463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is powerful enough to compile Underlambda into subsets of itself < 1286294483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: see later on. < 1286294510 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lacking context! < 1286294515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see logs < 1286294541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see, it has only two commands < 1286294550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is / on a line by itself, which does nothing but which is referenced by the other command < 1286294557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other is a/b for any character strings a and b < 1286294558 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is "itself" bound to Underlambda or upp? < 1286294564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: to Underlambda < 1286294567 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1286294573 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION arghs < 1286294578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if it wasn't it'd be a trivial statement :) < 1286294598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it means a subset of it could do underlambda code < 1286294598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what that does, is it substitutes all instances of a with b in a) the thing you're preprocessing; b) the preprocessor program itself, but only beyond the next lone / < 1286294601 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i dunno, a preprocessor that can compile a language into subsets of a preprocessor... < 1286294602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning the full thing is TC < 1286294605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning it could compile it < 1286294615 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: for example, where are you responding to < 1286294620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :additionally, a/b will not substitute in text that itself was produced by a substitution, unless a lone / has executed in the meantime < 1286294628 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what* < 1286294637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: nothing < 1286294641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, that's pretty simple < 1286294656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it lets you do block-replacements of fundamental commands, defining them in terms of each other < 1286294668 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Namespaces in C: solve. <-- that has a "pikhq" in front of it < 1286294671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you lovable geeks discussing at the moment? < 1286294685 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: even if it were TC, that wouldn't imply the statement was trivial < 1286294717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: implementing fixed-point combinators and typed lambda calculus in hardware; namespaces in C; preprocessing Underlambda < 1286294730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a metaconversation about what conversations are running < 1286294741 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1286294769 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: personally, no clue < 1286294783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i suppose not < 1286294786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: i was addressing pikhq. < 1286294807 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: about what? :/ < 1286294817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: about "Namespaces in C: solve." < 1286294825 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1286294827 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets it < 1286294959 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Skin overheating by having laptops on lap for too long... Article included talk about cancer... I wonder if PUFA oxidation due to heat is involved... < 1286295020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Only if you use a stupid laptop with an overly-hot processor :) < 1286295027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the fan too low. < 1286295112 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, enough heat / radiation will damage skin no matter what, but stuff like PUFA concentrations could determine how sensitive or resistant one is (PUFAs are chemically unstable)... < 1286295150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you have any opinions on Go? < 1286295224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, remember that mergesort I said I couldn't figure out what was wrong with? < 1286295232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: changing "< end" to "<= end-1" fixed it. < 1286295235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not mine) < 1286295241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1286295249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it using floats as loop counters? < 1286295265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and non-integer floats, at that?) < 1286295272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a buggy compiler? < 1286295277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was the code/ really/ isane? < 1286295279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*insane < 1286295294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, in this case, floating point was involved, but there wasn't a loop counter < 1286295300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was comparing elements in an array < 1286295307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, and those were floats? < 1286295310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and tl;dr using floating-point infinity to denote end of array makes weird shit happen < 1286295353 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286295356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1286295362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screwing with infinities tends to do that < 1286295424 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FP also has other weird shit like +0 and -0 are seperate numbers (that's actually useful in calculations). < 1286295484 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286295508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never did I think I'd see the day when there was a lambda calculus reference in a Star Wars webcomic. < 1286295866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, BF compilation. < 1286296020 0 :atrapado!~ro@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286296062 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1286296116 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go fialed horribly < 1286296118 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed* < 1286296165 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knot theory in Coq: has it been done? < 1286296203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't look like it from the first few Google results... < 1286296252 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knot theory in Coq 2: is it even sane? < 1286296290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was just looking at the Linux manpage reboot(2) < 1286296297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I get the feeling I'm missing something < 1286296307 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1286296315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the hex numbers were obfuscated by being translated to decimal, for no really obvious reason < 1286296321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't see any significance in the hex either < 1286296373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the Commodore 64 TCP/IP stack: "It doesn't do state tracking. It puts the state in the TCP sequence numbers. Save on RAM by passing state back and forth through the network." < 1286296390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... ingenious < 1286296393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one is linus' birthday < 1286296394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1286296400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all have significance as numbers < 1286296402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1286296413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know this because I wrote a program that calls it relatively recently :P < 1286296414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming it was something NSFW, based on how oblique they were being < 1286296429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1286296444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: LINUX_REBOOT_* are constants for them in the kernel, RB_* in glibc < 1286296449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest using the hex directly to avoid the headache < 1286296449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the purpose (to make sure that reboot isn't called by mistake by a program in undefined behavior) < 1286296501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I am pretty sure my mind faked Wake-Induced Lucid Dreams to me today < 1286296566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I was dreaming, and my mind made me think I was falling asleep consciously, and provided fake hypnagogic imagery and sounds to fool me into this < 1286296569 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that when you think you dream of waking up and are currently in a lucid dream, but actually you woke up for real? < 1286296574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading to a dream-in-a-dream < 1286296582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: WILD is just a method of achieving lucid dreams < 1286296596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you stay conscious but become very relaxed and let your body go to sleep < 1286296604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of related to meditation, I guess < 1286296620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but I think my dream decided to start with me falling asleep using WILD < 1286296633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it sometimes end up dreaming I've worken up < 1286296634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and manufactured some hypnagogic imagery and (really irritating clanging) sounds to go with it < 1286296635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wokrn < 1286296637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wokrn < 1286296638 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should practice lucid dreaming some more < 1286296638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*woken < 1286296641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading to a fumbled attempt at a lucid dream inside a non-lucid dream < 1286296644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where everything was hideously unrealistic < 1286296653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes before i fully got "into" a dream induced that way < 1286296653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gone through my normal morning routine < 1286296654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to move < 1286296660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then actually woken up and had to do it all over again < 1286296660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i saw a flicker of the "real world" and me moving slightly in it < 1286296663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I thought, I'm not asleep enough for that < 1286296665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that can't be right < 1286296668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're paralysed by that point < 1286296672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and completely asleep < 1286296681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm fairly sure that if i had let that happen, I'd have "woken up" into an actual dream < 1286296690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably have performed a reality check due to the circumstances... < 1286296695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was too stupid to realise this at the time :) < 1286296697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i woke up for real < 1286296699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or have I < 1286296703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD I HAVE 7 FINGERS < 1286296706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has quit (Connection reset by peer) < 1286296708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you know you have to perform a reality check, everything becomes pretty easy < 1286296709 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1286296721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somehow, you rarely think of doing that in a dream < 1286296730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah I just look at my hands and if I have fingers sprouting out of my other fingers I just jump out the nearest window < 1286296738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the easiest way to get places in a dream! < 1286296744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: if I ever end up with deformed hands, I am so dead) < 1286296767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh, I tend to invent methods of transportation in my dreams < 1286296773 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried the reality checks...most of them give false negatives inside dreams :/ < 1286296781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1286296782 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.114.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286296785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : as in, I was dreaming, and my mind made me think I was falling asleep consciously, and provided fake hypnagogic imagery and sounds to fool me into this <-- hm, soon there is no way we can trust anything :P < 1286296786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: hands always works for me < 1286296794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I either have more than five fingers, or fingers are placed in ways that geometry doesn't quite allow < 1286296801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I N C E P T I O N < 1286296801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know about the science-fiction idea of going somewhere distant via going there over the course of years (at near-lightspeed), but in such a way that the people aboard don't perceive most of it? < 1286296803 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks his totem < 1286296811 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, rings a bell but can't place it < 1286296816 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a strange discussion < 1286296818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I haven't heard of it, but go on. < 1286296823 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: my fingers are always fine while I'm dreaming...and I can even touch them < 1286296824 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obtw there is a channel for this < 1286296827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never remember to perform reality checks when dreaming... < 1286296829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when I move around in my dreams, it's normally using a means of transport that does that over really short distances < 1286296830 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foonetic/#lucidity < 1286296831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a recent film about nested dreams-within-dreams < 1286296843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I very rarely remember my dreams < 1286296844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and people from higher levels of dreams being able to change them and stuff < 1286296846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen it < 1286296847 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I haven't tried breathing with my nose closed yet :/ < 1286296849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds worth watching < 1286296854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of capsule thing that takes days to go just a few miles, but you're unconcious for most of it so don't care < 1286296856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, heh < 1286296858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: the fun thing with more than five fingers < 1286296859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that you can feel them! < 1286296864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use a finger to touch a fake one < 1286296866 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :o it was the best movie of the summer what's taking you so long? < 1286296869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it feels like a strange buzzy feeling < 1286296873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'm lazy < 1286296883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did you go into a lucid dream just to recreate Inception? < 1286296890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that is awesome. < 1286296890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :D < 1286296894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that really annoys me about Inception, is that it seems that everyone who watches it goes to everyone they know and says "I watched Inception" < 1286296894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind did < 1286296905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent that I worry that it's specifically designed to brainwash people into doing that < 1286296906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know, you *can* just invent a magic mirror < 1286296907 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was invisible last time :) < 1286296909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's that cool. < 1286296913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to have sci-fi dreams < 1286296931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I suppose it's to do with the sort of transport I use in RL < 1286296932 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: topic-quote! < 1286296943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rarely move around via the fastest method < 1286296950 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, i did that, but i also saw it on the night it came out, so it wasn't a trend yet. now people do it because everyone keeps pestering everyone to see it so they have to tell them to stop the pestering < 1286296957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of my esolang ideas are developed waiting at bus shelters < 1286296963 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pesters alise and ais523 < 1286296964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Somehow, even when I'm totally lucid though, I can't convince myself that I can control reality. As in: it requires absolute belief in that what you're about to do will work to change the gameworld. I am apparently too rational to summon up such faith. < 1286296965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh, I see < 1286296973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This saddens me. < 1286296975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and a really strange transport method < 1286296996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it works better if you invent a pseudoscience explanation, even if you don't believe in pseudoscience < 1286296999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe I should become religious for the practice. < 1286297007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unfortunately my periods of lucidity also tend to be short. :( < 1286297019 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah...same...but you can prolong them :) < 1286297020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift into the fourth dimension, do stuff there, with the knowledge that you can manipulate that based on the fact that you own the device that lets you go there in the first place < 1286297022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I tend to sleep only when I'm really tired on weekends; this rarely seems to lead to dreams I remember for me. < 1286297026 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1286297031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you only sleep once a week? < 1286297032 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spinning around will mostly work) < 1286297036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, start traveling by train until you finish of the current unfinished ones then! < 1286297036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to try defining the braid group in Coq for the halibut. < 1286297037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: I've done the tactics, like feeling a brick wall a lot and staring at the details. < 1286297039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Har har. < 1286297044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: It never works. < 1286297049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I misparsed your sentence < 1286297049 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: works for me < 1286297057 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reality check: can anyone here pinpoint the last time they had a stereotypical dream? < 1286297058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: As soon as I move away and stop looking like someone with Down's syndrome, everything becomes fuzzy again. < 1286297059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even notice it was ambiguous until you assumed I was being sarcastic < 1286297065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do it the mathematical way! < 1286297070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: even my stereotypical dreams are rather non-stereotypical < 1286297071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: wut? < 1286297075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the geometry hyperbolic! < 1286297082 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: maybe...the brick thing works better? < 1286297089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with normal days, I don't sleep long enough for a nice lucid dream really < 1286297092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are some very common dreams and nightmares. < 1286297094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: So just stare at a brick the whole time?? < 1286297104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, I don't get them though. Or at least I never remember them < 1286297104 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how am I supposed to have bricks? < 1286297109 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, a dream where your teeth are falling out and/or a dream where you are having trouble controlling a car/driving it from the back seat < 1286297110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: ????????? < 1286297113 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe flying < 1286297115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yorick: I've done the tactics, like feeling a brick wall a lot and staring at the details. alise: works for me < 1286297120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yorick: As soon as I move away and stop looking like someone with Down's syndrome, everything becomes fuzzy again. alise: maybe...the brick thing works better? < 1286297130 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(17:43) < alise> yorick: It never works. < 1286297133 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've had some serious up-messery of my scale perception before < 1286297134 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(17:43) < yorick> alise: works for me < 1286297134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I have never had any of those dreams. < 1286297138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, err... < 1286297140 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've had both of the former in the last month but I can't remember exactly when. I haven't flown since I was a child. < 1286297143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: "how am I supposed to have bricks?" what does this mean < 1286297148 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how am I supposed to find bricks to stare at < 1286297149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that was while trying to get to sleep, not actually once sleeping. < 1286297154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: Uhh, leave the house you're in. < 1286297156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the bricks. < 1286297157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I guess stereotypical dreams differ between persons < 1286297160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: You said works for me; presumably you already do this. < 1286297162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why are you asking me? < 1286297172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my house isn't made of bricks! < 1286297173 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: because I recognize the feeling if it becoming fuzzy again < 1286297177 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, had any dreams that sound similar to those ideas? < 1286297179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM DISABLED < 1286297182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, not at all < 1286297183 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: and yes, mostly the places I dream of are not made of bricks < 1286297192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I never seem to have recurring themes in my dreams either < 1286297198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, both my house and my workplace are made of bricks < 1286297216 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually either polished plastic or metal < 1286297216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mine rarely have recurring themes, but they tend to have consistent geography with each other < 1286297221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: My most common recurring nightmare when I was young was -- imagine a zoomed-out satellite picture of a huge city on a regular British day -- not sunny, not raining. A ladder: I am on this ladder. It stretches down to the ground; my vision is that satellite picture. At the top: A hot air balloon. Someone in it -- that I recognise, encourages me to climb up further. < 1286297225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do so. < 1286297229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unusual mostly in that the geography in the dreams is /not/ the same as the real world < 1286297232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is a theme by the definition I used < 1286297235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But before I get close to the balloon, the ladder tips forwards and falls away. < 1286297236 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have had a few recurring themes. but my best dreams are one time only < 1286297238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I start falling and wake up. < 1286297240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ah, OK < 1286297260 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my most recurring nightmares currently is being stabbed/shot by my friends :/ < 1286297262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh, you mean a solid ladder, rather than a rope ladder, etc. < 1286297262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interestingly, I universally start lucid dreams in a warped version of my old bedroom < 1286297266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, metal < 1286297268 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are* < 1286297268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dreams are either really boring or all very slippery in memory. < 1286297269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's balanced on the balloon? < 1286297275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although it's only barely resting on the hot air balloon IIRC < 1286297277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I remember having two dreams tonight, one when the alarm clock woke me up, and one when it woke me up again after 5 minutes of snooze < 1286297281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no real reason it should stay up for that long < 1286297282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be an interesting situation to set up in RL < 1286297284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't remember what they were about < 1286297286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this *is* a dream < 1286297292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interesting, ha, you'll never see me on it :D < 1286297293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dream physics is different < 1286297295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway it was ridiculously high < 1286297299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like literally < 1286297317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked down and big landmarks were like my thumb and ... whatever the finger next to the thumb is curled together < 1286297321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "ridiculously high" is about as accurate as you can get for dream physics < 1286297327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "index finger" < 1286297342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Millennium Dome wouldn't be very big, even. < 1286297355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was *seriously* high up. < 1286297356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for nightmares, haven't had one that woke up and/or that I remembered for months. Probably years < 1286297408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway, it's weird -- once the ladder tipped forwards, it basically disappeared < 1286297409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, the detail that normally causes me to reality-check and wake up is something really minor < 1286297413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: "ridiculously high" is about as accurate as you can get for dream physics <-- hm < 1286297414 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last dream I remembered was having a conversation with the news-guy on the alarm clock when it was about to wake me up yesterday < 1286297424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: of course it did, a ladder that tall can't stand on end without something to support it < 1286297424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have a vague memory of seeing an altimeter in a dream < 1286297426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it clearly doesn't exist < 1286297435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rarely wake up after a reality check, but lucidity never lasts long. < 1286297437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1286297440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I never said I became lucid < 1286297442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this logic /actually works/ in dream physics) < 1286297453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've always wanted to end a lucid dream by setting pi to 3. < 1286297465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine everything would explode in a whirl of circles and I'd wake up as my dream physics engine crashes. < 1286297465 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never done a reality check that came out negative :/ < 1286297469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was reading out something like "8238aj and half a donut" or something equally ridiculous though, though it seemed normal in the dream < 1286297476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: try looking at a clock, look away, check it again < 1286297478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or try reading < 1286297480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading is impossible in dreams < 1286297487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: well, it mostly happens for me when not lucid; I'm not sure if I've ever been properly lucid < 1286297493 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either I just go "wth...I'm dreaming!", or "I must be dreaming, lets try a reality check...no it never works" < 1286297495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes I randomly decide to reality-check and it comes out negative < 1286297495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only focus four words at a time and you can never seem to read them, and if you look even to the right a bit then back they'll have changed < 1286297504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that always causes me to instantly wake up < 1286297505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: you need to reality check in *usual* situations < 1286297509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point is that dreams never seem unusual < 1286297510 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I tried that once, it pointed to 4:01 twice < 1286297511 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a dream last night with a terrible book about Python in it. (The text was English prose, but it was syntax-highlighted similarly to Python...) < 1286297512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't rely on that < 1286297516 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I envy your entertaining dreams. < 1286297519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wat :D < 1286297524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you've been using pastebins too much < 1286297531 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: :D < 1286297532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i had an awesome dream recently < 1286297538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no reading is possible, as long as you don't try again or actually try to read. I dreamed reading street signs, as well as numbers a few times. < 1286297542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some sort of thing similar to a zombie apocalypse but not quite < 1286297544 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm certain i've read in dreams < 1286297550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was like being in an action film, you know you can't die, it's just awesome < 1286297555 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've been looking at too much Python, that's for sure. < 1286297561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I didn't actually read though, just kind of dreamed that I had < 1286297562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I did LSD twice... not sure why < 1286297569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad idea < 1286297573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed like a good idea at the time < 1286297576 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: clocks work in my dreams, so does reading < 1286297584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (what was "bad idea" to?) < 1286297591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: trying LSD < 1286297595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? < 1286297604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of getting lucid dreams, you get non-lucid real life < 1286297609 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels strange to see it being 4:01 pm on sunday, then waking up and, 8 hours later, see it being 4:01 pm on sunday again < 1286297623 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's an experiment someone did once where they'd present some text on a screen to read, and they'd do pupil tracking, and every time they caught a saccade, they'd replace what the viewer was just looking at with different text. < 1286297625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind-of the worst of both worlds < 1286297625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd say ego death is a bit more than simple non-lucidity... < 1286297630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, trying LSD in a dream or? < 1286297634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, yes < 1286297638 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads the wiki. < 1286297644 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's just horribly evil < 1286297646 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because the eyes can't really detect such subtle changes when saccading, it was really disturbing trying to read it... < 1286297647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that seems evil < 1286297649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened? < 1286297652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: besides, I'm pretty sure you can't think "hey, this isn't realistic" when you're on LSD < 1286297661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yep < 1286297672 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't even know what they were trying to test for. i should look it up again. < 1286297676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have almost a religious level of horror/abhorrance at things that affect my ability to think straight < 1286297686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that doesn't matter because you'd be idiotic to do it without someone who's done it before around. < 1286297687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: who cares, that's a great experiment anyway < 1286297690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh, it's on my list of things to try some day < 1286297693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's the .NET framework, most people already have it on their computer" how does someone this stupid write anything that comes near working? < 1286297695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ego death sounds fun < 1286297697 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should try LSD sometime. i need a good babysitter tho < 1286297704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol babysitter < 1286297713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm, most people with a computer probably /do/ have the .NET framework installed < 1286297719 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've seen the LSD sketching experiment haven't you? < 1286297724 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna try that on myself < 1286297724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming that most Windows XP users have needed it for something by now < 1286297730 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not < 1286297731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1286297732 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but not with quite as high a dose < 1286297738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I have Mono installed even though I'm on Linux < 1286297753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to an occasional need to run .NET programs < 1286297764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'm not sure that was lsd < 1286297768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's what Mono does? < 1286297771 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: def was < 1286297777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: if it was, it must have been a mild dose, surely < 1286297783 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: huge dose < 1286297783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's a .NET bytecode interpreter, plus libraries < 1286297785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pretty much < 1286297786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i doubt anyone could draw on a regular dose of LSD. < 1286297798 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you've clearly not seen the experiment < 1286297802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i have < 1286297812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but i'm having a hard idea of perceiving someone pick up a pencil and put it on paper < 1286297830 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they basically had to force him to, and at a certain point even that didn't work < 1286297882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high doses of LSD are interesting, since the active dose is so incredibly, ridiculously small, but the fatal dose is ridiculously high < 1286297895 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1286297913 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they gave the guy like 100mg or something like that < 1286297922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine how they could possibly do anything more than a regular highish dose, though... < 1286297933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i'd say that's fairly close to the most anything can do to you :P < 1286297959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway in the dream LSD was pretty boring really, everything was just a certain colour and like a day passed in a few minutes and i was back where i started < 1286297968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-zombie 'pocalypse was much more fun < 1286298014 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was close. apparently it was 100 �g < 1286298014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I assume that if you actually fell asleep while on LSD, the dreams you got (if any) wouldn't be that different from normal dreams anyway < 1286298031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: only out by a factor of 1000! < 1286298035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's close in one sense, but not in another < 1286298041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, in the first LSD trip, Albert Hofmann fell asleep (after a bad trip) < 1286298051 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, it's only 3 orders of magnitude < 1286298054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and then woke up feeling tingly and joyful < 1286298057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after an uneventful night < 1286298059 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 sounds like such a big number. 3 is better < 1286298073 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1286298081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 mg of LSD is well below the fatal dose, I think < 1286298084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but orders of magnitude can be so much larger than individual units < 1286298088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is comparable to other drugs with active doses in the mgs) < 1286298093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rather than the ... mugs) < 1286298122 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286298123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Drug_danger_and_dependence.png < 1286298126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :active vs lethal doses < 1286298130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's worrying enough that you can be affected by a microgram of anything, if you think about it; humans have a chemical balance so complex it can be upset by even that small an amount of a chemical < 1286298134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't give absolute values, just the ratio < 1286298141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but LSD has the lowest < 1286298150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprise, surprise, heroin has the highest < 1286298190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Typical doses in the 1960s ranged from 200 to 1000 µg while street samples of the 1970s contained 30 to 300 µg. By the 1980s, the amount had reduced to between 100 to 125 µg, lowering more in the 1990s to the 20–80 µg range,[14] and even more in the 2000s.[15] [16]]] < 1286298198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes it hard to figure out the fatal dose since it depends on the figures the graph is using :D < 1286298205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286298215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Estimates for the lethal dosage (LD50) of LSD range from between 200 µg/kg to more than 1 mg/kg of human body mass, though most sources report that there are no known human cases of such an overdose. Other sources note one report of a suspected fatal overdose of LSD occurring in November 1975 in Kentucky in which there were indications that ~1/3 of a gram (320 mg or 320,000 µg) had been injected intravenously. (This is a very extraordinary amount, partic < 1286298215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ularly when compared to the average LSD dosage of ~100 µg)." < 1286298271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by comparison, the lethal dose of water is around 8 kg < 1286298282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1286298283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then, the antidotes are relatively simple and readily available < 1286298298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you trying to say < 1286298300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't take LSD, take water"? < 1286298302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pretty much anything that dissolves in water works, as long as it isn't dangerous to eat itself) < 1286298309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm just trying to draw a comparison < 1286298312 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey man < 1286298313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1286298325 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if, like, we're all taking hundreds of ml of a drug every day?? < 1286298332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE WATER MAN < 1286298333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE WATER < 1286298336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I can get drunk on water pretty effectively anyway < 1286298343 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're all hallucinating and lsd reveals the real stuff... < 1286298344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1286298346 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no man! < 1286298350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: I N C E P T I O N < 1286298351 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the drug is.... water < 1286298353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T H E M A T R I X < 1286298369 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1286298376 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what is this Interpol language, and howcum it's not on the esowiki? < 1286298387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an esolang called Interpol? < 1286298394 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howcum? simple < 1286298398 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one with a simular name... < 1286298398 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you kind of rub a bit < 1286298405 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polol something < 1286298424 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's a *language* called Interpol, and it *looks* kinda esoteric: http://www.nyx.net/~gthompso/self_ipol.txt < 1286298431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to see someone try 1 mg of LSD (10x the active dose; absolute minimum estimated lethal dose is 200 µg/kg, so you'd have to be something like 5kg for this to kill you) < 1286298448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: nopol? < 1286298451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to google for, tho < 1286298453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a similar name, that's just oklopol < 1286298462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well, you know Brian Raiter < 1286298471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if he codes in it... < 1286298474 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, interpol. . .same difference < 1286298481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oklopol is a person < 1286298483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i linked that yesterday btw < 1286298485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you see it? < 1286298491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last quine is my favourite < 1286298496 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes. that's why it's in my browser. mocking me. < 1286298499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harfharfharfharfharfharfharfharfharfharf! < 1286298529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: gthompso@nyx.net < 1286298530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask < 1286298536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ask brian himself < 1286298540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Brian Raiter works at Google, I doubt all his programming is in esolangs < 1286298555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breadbox [whirlpool] muppetlabs [spot] com < 1286298559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shaddap :) < 1286298573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I didn't get a reply last time I sent a query there < 1286298577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't remember what it was about < 1286298605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never got a reply from the author of that WP7 INTERCAL interp either < 1286298671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, according to a Reddit comment, ads on domain-parked pages have a click-through rate of 50-80%, because there's nothing else to click on < 1286298681 0 :pineal_aenimal!~pineal_ae@209.97.91.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286298695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can believe that the average Internet user doesn't realise that not every page needs to have a link followed from it < 1286298699 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't believe that either < 1286298700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still scary < 1286298717 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[citation needed] < 1286298722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there wasn't one < 1286298732 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they made it up < 1286298755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1286298764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few people commenting in the thread were actual former domain parkers < 1286298799 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to pick a good domain to get good results with that tho < 1286298830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, a high conversion rate is pointless if people never visit the site in the first place < 1286298960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Underload optimisation; discuss. < 1286298968 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1286298989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: apart from the S command, you can do quite a bit due to the side-effect-free nature of the language < 1286299001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the S command is sort of the point :P < 1286299004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that going below the end of the stack crashes the program, any subprogram can only access finite stack < 1286299016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, it can be seen as a function < 1286299047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Underload optimization works much like Haskell optimization, you just need to deal with the Ses somehow < 1286299056 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1286299075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cpressey < 1286299103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S'es are simple, just treat the whole program as producing a list of output, surely? < 1286299126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1286299129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's effectively making them into a monad, which is one possible solution but one I've never seen used < 1286299153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1286299156 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was actually wondering last night how to make oerjan's kolakoski sequence generator manage to output more than a dozen digits on my C impl of underload < 1286299161 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(before it crashes) < 1286299167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay orange juice! < 1286299183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: tail recursion < 1286299191 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it does do tail recursion < 1286299207 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, my impl does. < 1286299213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INSUFFICIENT < 1286299221 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERMITTENT < 1286299222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail concatenation helps, too < 1286299226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unlambda compilation; disgust. < 1286299229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't recall the bots having a problem with it... < 1286299263 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: or do you mean, write the underload program tail-recursively? i don't even know how that would be possible < 1286299268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have I actually posted the source to derlo anywhere, yet? < 1286299280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: tail-recursion in Underload is a ^ just before a ) < 1286299302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the standard infinite while loop is (:^):^, and any sane interp should be able to run that forever without overflowing stack, etc < 1286299320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I should just say "infinite loop", there's nothing /that/ while-loopy about it < 1286299328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still shouldn't crash on a dozen digits, i doubt my program is _that_ space leaky :D < 1286299404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (^), the most pointless program ever; discuss < 1286299412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although (^)* might be useful for something < 1286299415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although what i know not < 1286299419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(^)* is definitely silly, though < 1286299428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a fancy identity < 1286299448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^) is plausible for use as a data element in some encoding scheme < 1286299460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC one of oerjan's programs used it, although I can't remember the context < 1286299477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, (^) and (!) could be used for true and false < 1286299488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rule 110 one, probably < 1286299514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true = (~!^); false = (!^), imo < 1286299517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least useful true and false :P < 1286299532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I normally use either those, or () and (!()) < 1286299542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are confusing < 1286299543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: and ^ were the simplest way to encode data using just 1 char per bit < 1286299543 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. i totally cannot think today. < 1286299544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you append ^ to the second set, you get (^) and (!) < 1286299547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's zero and one? < 1286299554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!()) and () respectively < 1286299559 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^) almost reminds me of the standard Imp. Someone should make a Underload Battle Arena for fighting Underload programs. < 1286299559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go then :P < 1286299568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: and a were also possible iirc but more messy < 1286299571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make nice booleans because "loop n times" is easy in Underload < 1286299577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1286299578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an if statement is "loop 0 times" vs. "loop 1 time" < 1286299583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't like how zero's different :< < 1286299590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unlike, e.g. the lambda calculus < 1286299594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :church numerals < 1286299673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it isn't really: you can construct the numbers as 0 = (()'!_), 1 = (()':_*'!_), 2 = (()':_*':_*'!_), etc < 1286299676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here like Logo? < 1286299683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just happen to optimise into much neater forms < 1286299686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, no using underlambda syntax < 1286299687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1286299710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's underlambda; 'x = (x); _ = ~a*^) < 1286299723 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is underlambda on esowiki < 1286299739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm missing some ~s there < 1286299743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's far from finished < 1286299747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: vapourware < 1286299747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I tend not to put partial langs up there < 1286299749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Feather < 1286299755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: less vapourware than Feather < 1286299755 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :featherware < 1286299761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because at least I have an idea where it's going < 1286299761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with ais523 you can get close to the vapour and inhale < 1286299770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for a few lovely minutes, your brain doesn't work at all < 1286299779 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no change then < 1286299779 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you choose the underload command names so that source would naturally be littered with emoticons, or was that just happenstance? < 1286299781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you try to understand retroactive non-synchronicitic variable term rewriting of the past < 1286299784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, aren't all my esolangs vaporware at some point < 1286299792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it was clearly designed for (:aSS):aSS < 1286299797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I tend to gravitate towards punctuation marks < 1286299802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even make an argument that that can be read as < 1286299806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the aSS thing is actually entirely concidental < 1286299807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"push double ass, double ass" < 1286299821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were deliberate, it would have been properly capitalisd < 1286299840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because : is dup) < 1286299857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any objections to me removing [[Underload#Self-interpreter]]? < 1286299860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ridiculous and blatantly false < 1286299869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind < 1286299878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "correct" in a joke-esolang sort of way < 1286299890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, but keymaker was serious at the time :) < 1286299890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pretty much every lang has a self-interp on that basis < 1286299903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, my bad. I honestly didn't think about it, this idea of passing control is obvious now, but quite new to me. I was thinking along the lines that if the data gets run, it's interpreted. :) Anyways, how would one convert the Underload program to Church numerals? (I have no idea about those.) And would some other encoding be ok (probably would)? And what would it be if my Underload-interpreter-in-brainfuck was modified to have the program we want to execute < 1286299903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : directly in the memory without the interpreter reading it from user, and that brainfuck program was then converted to Underload with ais523's brainfuck-to-Underload program. Would that suffice? --Keymaker 14:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC) < 1286299919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that there are several different conceputal ways to think of Underload < 1286299927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that method is perfectly natual in some, and abhorrent in others < 1286299940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HTML source code" --you < 1286299941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aargh... < 1286299944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>__> < 1286299944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(S is a wart on the lang, in that it screws some of them up; Underlambda is going to redefine output to fix that, I just haven't decided how yet) < 1286299954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, it's hardly a binary < 1286299957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1286299965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "HTML source" i would have accepted < 1286299969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HTML markup" too < 1286299972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "HTML code"? < 1286299973 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would the correct way of writing a program that recursively interprets itself in underload (the same way that one that what's his name wrote for C does)? < 1286299974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1286299977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1286299982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's markup! < 1286299987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so i'm not normally this anal < 1286299991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HTML source code" just threw me off < 1286300000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is golfscript usable for anything but golfing? < 1286300001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you'd have to write an interp for something, then quine into the lang that interp used as input < 1286300004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: for C? < 1286300008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1286300009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall that < 1286300010 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :html is very code < 1286300011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it C? < 1286300014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: obviously, it permits embedded Ruby < 1286300025 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme check < 1286300029 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it sets it on fire < 1286300031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay but apart from that, which is kind of cheating. < 1286300040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me, I want to make a usable application in pure CSS (plus a DOM element to start it off) someday < 1286300042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's doable < 1286300050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's sub-TC, you can still create something useful < 1286300060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would it do? < 1286300068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also brb < 1286300071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you have content: and attr() (I think it's spelled like that) < 1286300073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of state machine, I think < 1286300075 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onvm < 1286300076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as hover and focus < 1286300082 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of madore's scheme self-interp < 1286300082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to use mouseovers for input < 1286300083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do some things with it < 1286300086 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway < 1286300094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and the custom-defined list numbering in CSS(is it 3? I think so) < 1286300097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets you do ridiculous things < 1286300098 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: underload interpreter in underload? < 1286300101 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a really short way to do that in underload? < 1286300114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: an underload self-interp is non-trivial < 1286300121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not that non-trivial < 1286300122 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: thanks < 1286300122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hmm, not really < 1286300129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mm, maybe not < 1286300144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need a lookup table and a bunch of concatenations < 1286300181 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me, i want to do the meta-circular thing with a rewriting lang someday < 1286300193 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but underload is somewhat interesting too < 1286300205 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how simple *would* it be? < 1286300222 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me what meta-circular means? is that the name for the "evaluate string" as flow control idea? < 1286300226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :choosing the input encoding looks like the hard bit ;D < 1286300238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you just need a lookup table and a bunch of concatenations < 1286300243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i thought it was about css counter stuff < 1286300246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's non-trivial, certainly < 1286300247 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: an interpreter for language X, written in language X, basically < 1286300248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial is trivial < 1286300250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (!())((zero)(!^)(one)(!^)(two)(!^)(three)(!^)(four)(!^)(five)(!^)(six)(!^)(seven)(!^)(eight)(!^)(nine)(!^)(ten)())~(!!)~^^S^ < 1286300250 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(zero)(!^)(one)(!^)(two)(!^)(three)(!^)(four)(!^)(five)(!^)(six)(!^)(seven)(!^)(eight)(!^)(nine)(!^)(ten)() ...out of stack! < 1286300255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, I missed a ^ < 1286300257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: *wrong* < 1286300264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-circular_evaluator < 1286300270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a self-interpreter < 1286300277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wrote the table backwards < 1286300289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate it when useful distinctions are lost due to people misusing terms... < 1286300305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's ironic *ducks* < 1286300327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's like rain / on your wedding day < 1286300355 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i did say "basically" < 1286300404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (!())(:*:*)(::**)(:*:*:*)(~(()(ten)(!^)(nine)(!^)(eight)(!^)(seven)(!^)(six)(!^)(five)(!^)(four)(!^)(three)(!^)(two)(!^)(one)(!^)(zero))~a*^(!!)~^^( )*S^:^):^ < 1286300404 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eight three four zero ...out of stack! < 1286300411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, lookup table < 1286300441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: proposal: remove () from underlambda < 1286300442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::**)(:*)(::*:**)(~(()(ten)(!^)(nine)(!^)(eight)(!^)(seven)(!^)(six)(!^)(five)(!^)(four)(!^)(three)(!^)(two)(!^)(one)(!^)(zero))~a*^(!!)~^^( )*S^:^):^ < 1286300443 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :five two three ...out of stack! < 1286300444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' and * make it redundant < 1286300453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: () is still useful, though < 1286300462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ':'!* < 1286300465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, you need a as well to make it redundant) < 1286300478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda is somewhat golfed < 1286300484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and parens are useful for that < 1286300487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1286300497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there a non-()-using program that pushes () on the stack? < 1286300499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, but... < 1286300506 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so the distinction is that when an interpreter provides direct access to it evaluation methods, one can write an interpreter for that interpreter that really just asks the parent interpreter to do interpretation? < 1286300510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(abcd) -> ':'!*'a*'b*'c*'d* :-D < 1286300514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sort of < 1286300519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but only for the trivial reason that the first command in any Underload program has to be () < 1286300529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something containing () < 1286300532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's like writing a scheme interpreter in scheme that just handles lambda and similar control structures, making them into real lambdas, and passes off the actual evaluation to APPLY < 1286300547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Underload, there's a command to push () onto the stack, it's called 1 < 1286300550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it does name lookup, basic control structures, and things like macros if it does them; but actual (f x y z) is handled by (apply f (list x y z)) < 1286300563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a self-interpreter that uses the language's actual interpreter to do most of the work for it, basically < 1286300574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's a correct sort of interp, though, and often is used to interp one lang in another < 1286300576 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what i was trying to say < 1286300580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no, but only for the trivial reason that the first command in any Underload program has to be () < 1286300580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1286300581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1286300582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no "()" < 1286300586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not no "(" ")" < 1286300587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286300592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in Underload < 1286300596 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1286300610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Underlambda, you can do ((x)!) or something like that < 1286300622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's only the semantics of a codeblock that matter, not its literal representation < 1286300629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what don't you get? < 1286300657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : because it's only the semantics of a codeblock that matter, not its literal representation < 1286300658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1286300676 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me a self-interpreter that isn't meta-circular. to me, it's just a matter of degree (how direct is your circularity?) < 1286300693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: for instance, a Python-in-Python implementation that implements its own object system < 1286300697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda's S command outputs functions, and its D command inputs them < 1286300698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does tree-based AST interpretation < 1286300706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: '!a'!* < 1286300708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :effective nop < 1286300708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interp-defined what format's used to output the functions < 1286300755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there are any number of subsets of Underlambda that are TC < 1286300759 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any interpreter for B written in A, where A and B are unrelated, which is then interpreted by a A interpreter written in B. < 1286300764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a while, I even thought about embedding BF-minus-comments in it < 1286300777 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pretty much forces you not to ask the A interpreter for help < 1286300781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < and > don't fit well with the execution model without requiring a really complex definition of + and - < 1286300804 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, the B interpreter for help < 1286300808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I was thinking about that just now; for Scheme, the sticking point seems to be closures in the intermediate language < 1286300830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a self-interp's considered to be a "true" self-interp if it goes via an intermediate representation that doesn't include closures < 1286300851 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: in your example, the object system isn't directly meta-circular... but since it's still defined, indirectly, in terms of itself, i can't bring myself to call it "not" meta-circular < 1286300861 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so Clojure is out of the question? that seems silly, since Clojure can be compiled to java bytecodes... < 1286300877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You know, there is a use for terms that are not precise slicings of the world in two. < 1286300889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, "metacircular" is obviously not precise, but even Lojban has vague adjectives. < 1286300907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's a self-interp either way, but there's sort-of a distinction between "compile then execute", and "interpret without compiling" < 1286300920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is often considered cheating, especially if the compile step is very simple < 1286300932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you seem to feel it's precise enough to yell *wrong* at me when I do a first pass explanation < 1286300933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, it's not a straight distinction in that there's no cutoff, it's a continuum < 1286300954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: If I was yelling, I would have used uppercase. And it was more so that quintopia doesn't get confused. < 1286300957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "meta-circular" mean anyway? < 1286300964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been yelling about the definition because I have no idea what it is < 1286300966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-circular_evaluator < 1286300981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i *did* link that definition before, but ofc you didn't see it :) < 1286300987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, clog's being slow < 1286301003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-circular_evaluator < 1286301009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that filter causes you way more problems than it solves < 1286301011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it before you posted that < 1286301017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's solved loads of problems for me < 1286301027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, I'm away for three minutes and I come back to several screenfuls < 1286301029 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you filter them to empty string or to [missing link] ? < 1286301031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, bbl for quite a bit < 1286301032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problems it causes are problematic, but not that bad < 1286301034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: to (link) < 1286301040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty string would be rather confusing < 1286301040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I never meta-circ < 1286301040 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286301045 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1286301062 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what problems does it solve? < 1286301062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also relevant: http://goatse.cx/ < 1286301070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: he doesn't like links < 1286301074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1286301076 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.114.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286301076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people pestering me, mostly < 1286301077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1286301080 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i apologize for spreading confusion. < 1286301087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Sacrifice goats! < 1286301097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vast majority of IRCers assume that if they post a link, everyone will read it < 1286301115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making myself unable to follow them at least gives me a plausible excuse < 1286301125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to say "no I haven't read it because I filter links, and I don't particularly care anyway" < 1286301126 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! plausible deniability! < 1286301153 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then. < 1286301186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hmm, the wikipedia article seems to consider meta-circular evaluators as not being self-interps < 1286301192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I see them more as a special case < 1286301198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, the wikipedia article doesn't say that < 1286301201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're obviously right < 1286301207 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i were to do the same i'd have my client go ahead and fetch the link up until it reaches a tag, then filter the link to the title < 1286301213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The difference between self-interpreters and meta-circular interpreters is that the latter restate language features in terms of the features themselves, instead of actually implementing them. (Circular definitions, in other words; hence the name). They depend on their host environment to give the features meaning." < 1286301215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's a direct quote < 1286301229 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way i can know what the link was to, while still being able to deny having received a link < 1286301230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, Wikipedia, it's actually Reginald Braithwaite who I disagree with < 1286301245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ingenious < 1286301252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are some sites I don't even want to send TCP requests too < 1286301254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1286301263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the firewall here is somewhat insane < 1286301273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone's been lying to the pavement again < 1286301291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, what raganwald meant there is < 1286301297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"difference between them and REGULAR self-interps" < 1286301298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure < 1286301302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1286301305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could just be lack of context < 1286301324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a smart guy, so < 1286301346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I want to write an Underload quine where every string is treated either entirely as data, or entirely as code < 1286301365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, either S is never run on it, or ^ is never run on it < 1286301376 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun < 1286301407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably wouldn't fit into one line of IRC, though < 1286301465 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have someone that goes through your web access logs seeing which domains you've accessed? < 1286301480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes in theory < 1286301490 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bastages < 1286301639 0 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286301685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the firewall's stopped portscanning me < 1286301807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, all my ports are closed to anyone but 127.0.0.1. Why do you care? You're a NAT, it's not like anything would happen even if the ports were open, as I don't have a public IP...) < 1286301909 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamesauce < 1286301916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda x,y:x-1,y < 1286301920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently y is not defined < 1286301922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid scoping rules < 1286301945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: INTRA-UNIVERSITY ILLEGAL FILESHARING OVER PORT 453 < 1286301976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I hadn't even thought of communicating with other people on the same subnet < 1286301978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if indeed there are any < 1286302003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they could just firewall it at the router if they cared that much? < 1286302014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, insist all traffic went to a different subnet?) < 1286302041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if k=='h': < 1286302041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : w[Y,X]=46;X-=1;w[Y,X]=64;D(0,0) < 1286302041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elif k=='l': < 1286302041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : w[Y,X]=46;X+=1;w[Y,X]=64;D(0,0) < 1286302048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what it does! < 1286302065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving the character in a roguelike < 1286302078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 is @, the characters are typical roguelike movement keys < 1286302091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know 46 off by heart, but suspect it's . based on context < 1286302096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%c",46); < 1286302105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how C is ais523's go-to calculator < 1286302114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is, yes < 1286302116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what D does :P < 1286302120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most langs don't convert between integers and characters transparently < 1286302135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, D is less obvious, especially as the params are always 0 < 1286302139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, EgoBot isnt here < 1286302147 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego? < 1286302156 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D=update display? < 1286302161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes; what are the arguments? < 1286302166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286302179 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :offset into screen to start updating at, maybe? < 1286302185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1286302201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1286302213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, is someone going to explain what Underlambda is? < 1286302242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's a language project by me < 1286302243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: here's D's definition: < 1286302245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def D(a,b): < 1286302245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for B in range(b,b+23): < 1286302245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for A in range(a,a+80): < 1286302245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s.addch(B-b,A-a,w.get((B-12,A-40),46)) < 1286302251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based around an esolang, also with the same name < 1286302251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: b/B is y, a/A is x < 1286302255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just renamed them to avoid clashes < 1286302274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where's the esolang kept, if anywhere? < 1286302282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to build an esolang that's easy to compile into other langs, and easy to compile other langs into < 1286302283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my head < 1286302383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So taking Brainfuck's niche as the standard language for proof by isomorphism? < 1286302396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nah, most langs are hard to compile /into/ BF < 1286302402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to make it work both ways < 1286302404 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamit they set off the fire alarm again < 1286302413 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :motherfuckers < 1286302414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, OK, so even better? < 1286302419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get, eventually, an automatic converter between any two esolangs < 1286302422 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits < 1286302426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopelessly inefficient, ofc, but who cares < 1286302449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my roguelike now moves around properly < 1286302453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to do scrolling < 1286302455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practicality is so boring! < 1286302457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's on an infinite plane) < 1286302462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also golfed) < 1286302466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it non-Euclidean! < 1286302477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEtHack! < 1286302505 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would capitalise the 't', but is there such a thing as non-Euclidean topology? < 1286302513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, in this game, pressing a direction key for long enough will cause you to run out of memory < 1286302516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does Python accept thin-spaces for indentation? < 1286302516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the sparse array is filled < 1286302520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :-D < 1286302535 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i think topology might be non-Euclidean by default. < 1286302541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be great if you could mix all the different space-widths in Unicode < 1286302542 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that, Euclid never touched the stuff < 1286302546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you want to see what i currently have? < 1286302553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather imagine it < 1286302557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might take a look when I'm finished < 1286302563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*when it's finished < 1286302566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's 23 lines, FWIW < 1286302571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I have a strange aversion to unreleased projects < 1286302577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unfinished < 1286302584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's finished as far as moving around goes ;) < 1286302585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to like to get things done first before an official release < 1286302588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from scrolling < 1286302598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet, provide copies of the work-in-progress to anyone who asks < 1286302615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the only programs where people frequently have asked are jettyplay, and occasionally AceHack) < 1286302631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... < 1286302631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to incorrectly assume that the rest of the world operates like that, for some reason < 1286302644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're more then, let's say, 15 characters out of the centre < 1286302648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then scroll one place < 1286302653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, we were discussing mono earlier? I seem to remember that the mono program I ran, I downloaded the source from codeplex.com < 1286302654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so X,Y are the centre < 1286302656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x,y our position < 1286302667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and both their web-links and svn links weren't working properly, so in the end I used a recursive wget < 1286302735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x<X-15:X-=1 < 1286302736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x>X+15:X+=1 < 1286302736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y-15:Y-=1 < 1286302736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y+15:Y+=1 < 1286302739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: make that faster < 1286302743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1286302744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shorter < 1286302760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that isn't working < 1286302761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1286302780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Slashdot are debating commercial breaks on television < 1286302795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was in Canada (mostly receiving US TV channels), whenever a commercial break came on I changed channel < 1286302806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and checked back a few minutes later to see if it was still there < 1286302812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it? < 1286302816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes < 1286302820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite often, actually < 1286302828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the US channels all have short, frequent breaks. < 1286302830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I do that in the UK too, except I rarely watch television there < 1286302833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tend to get stuck on the BBC < 1286302839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no BBC, so there's nowhere to run. < 1286302840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's long, frequent breaks < 1286302891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, more frequent than ours though I think < 1286302908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Star Trek, over here, tends to do the abrupt-fade-out-then-in-again that usually signals an advert break, even when there's no adverts < 1286302911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, typical in the UK is one or two minutes every 10-30 minutes, randomized < 1286302997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's random? really? < 1286302999 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286303011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, not on Sky it isn't! < 1286303011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: when I actually cared, which wasn't for very long, I didn't notice an obvious pattern < 1286303015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was on ITV < 1286303022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like 3 minutes every 15 minutes < 1286303023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could only get the terrestrial channels then < 1286303044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the adbreaks were extremely short, like 20 seconds altogether, but those were rather rare < 1286303057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely just sponsors < 1286303076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you actually bother with Sky? < 1286303098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: uh, occasionally. < 1286303101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x<X-15:X-=1 < 1286303101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x>X+15:X+=1 < 1286303101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y-15:Y-=1 < 1286303101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y+15:Y+=1 < 1286303102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly in this age of torrents? < 1286303109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't this work... < 1286303120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow decreasing x increases Y! < 1286303122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck! < 1286303129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1286303130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong sign < 1286303138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't get rid of numbers! < 1286303154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A decrement must have an equivalent increment! < 1286303157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, doesn't quite work with diagonals < 1286303170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts some random dust into the playfield to make it easier to see < 1286303187 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's overflowing! < 1286303233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, now it randomises every time :-D < 1286303241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i leave a snail trail < 1286303249 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better < 1286303341 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1286303373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: have you not seen Forte? < 1286303384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have done more than the Crawl developers could. < 1286303385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every command in that which isn't a no-op or simple I/O permanently gets rid of a number from that program < 1286303393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Made a larger-than-screen playfield that scrolls non-annoying.) < 1286303396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Forte < 1286303398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1286303399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x<X-15:X-=1 < 1286303399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x>X+15:X+=1 < 1286303399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y-5:Y-=1 < 1286303399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y>Y+5:Y+=1 < 1286303402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was not difficult! < 1286303416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NetHack scrolls like that too, but only if you're using an unusually small terminal < 1286303420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(normally there's no need) < 1286303433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, what values does it use instead of 15 and 5? I guess you're unlikely to know :P < 1286303445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not offhand < 1286303447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check < 1286303451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! :) < 1286303456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think 15 and 5 may be a bit too low < 1286303468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although 5 has the nice property that it scales well from 15 < 1286303475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(15/80)*24 = 4.5 < 1286303481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the last line is reserved for my babble) < 1286303485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1286303487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the terminal is 80x24 < 1286303489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be *23 < 1286303509 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wareya < 1286303511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so it should be 4 < 1286303512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1286303585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the code uses some sort of complex dead-reckoning for efficiency, which makes it hard to read < 1286303590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, NetHack, you micro-optimised /that/? < 1286303599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1286303705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know the simplest way to get curses to just bloomin' restore the terminal at the end? < 1286303747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it moves the screen left and right by 20 at a time if it gets within 5 of the left or right screen edge; vertically, by half the screen height (not counting topl, botl) if it gets within 2 of the screen edge < 1286303760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: endwin does that automatically, or should < 1286303768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1286303769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo() < 1286303769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endwin() < 1286303769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as your termcap's set up correctly < 1286303776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1286303778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even need echo < 1286303779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1286303806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, your code isn't identical to NetHack's code < 1286303813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pretty close < 1286303816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how surprising :P < 1286303819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know the values it uses? < 1286303825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done s/15/17/ < 1286303826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> it moves the screen left and right by 20 at a time if it gets within 5 of the left or right screen edge; vertically, by half the screen height (not counting topl, botl) if it gets within 2 of the screen edge < 1286303846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by 20 at a time? < 1286303846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh < 1286303853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 at a time is the only way to avoid disorientation < 1286303860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, edge cases are handled in the actual code, but not in that description < 1286303873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, Crawl scrolls 1 at a time, if it gets more than 0 from the centre < 1286303932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're doing it in a mix between the NetHack and Crawl styles, which are close to being opposites < 1286303958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mine's the style that doesn't give you a headache ;) < 1286303979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, I found that in Enigma, which has level-configurable scrolling, the least confusing tends to be scrolling an entire screen instantly whenever you move within a few pixels of the edge (keeping one line) < 1286304009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nethack's is especially awful if you end up holding down one of the keys at the edge < 1286304016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since your character bounces around < 1286304043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, bear in mind that NetHack levels are only 80 characters wide < 1286304051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1286304054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas mine is infinite < 1286304055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd bounce at most three times before you reached the other end of the level, no matter how small your terminal < 1286304058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and procedurally generated, hopefully < 1286304074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a roguelike < 1286304078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the function to *draw the screen* will randomly assign stuff to unassigned cells in view, I think) < 1286304080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all procedurally generated, pretty much < 1286304083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's also a golfed roguelike :P < 1286304098 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wots all this then? < 1286304104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if you could make the Mandelbrot set into a roguelike? < 1286304114 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ....... omg. < 1286304117 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YES < 1286304118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :place stairs on bits more detailed than the current zoom level < 1286304120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat xD < 1286304126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going downstairs zooms in, upstairs zooms out < 1286304127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> place stairs on bits more detailed than the current zoom level ;; you mean every bit? < 1286304130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can zoom in anywhere < 1286304137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I mean, where there's anything interesting < 1286304140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than solid black or white < 1286304145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think if you use naturals instead of silly colours, you have detail everywhere but the centre < 1286304146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rather more limited, to the "edge" of the set < 1286304148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very boring detail, but still < 1286304149 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just s/stairs/some magic/ < 1286304154 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That voodoo you do < 1286304172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unfortunately, the Mandelbrot set is a bit slow to compute. < 1286304195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember writing my own Mandelbrot program < 1286304202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, my program crashes with no message if you resize the terminal and do anything < 1286304209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you could zoom right in until you started hitting distortions due to floating point rounding < 1286304212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just refuses to run with no message if your terminal is the wrong size < 1286304218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1286304220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too big works < 1286304221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too small doesn't < 1286304239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interesting thing is, the rounding errors created little sets of their own which looked like distorted Mandelbrot sets < 1286304246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AWESOME < 1286304249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were they fractal? < 1286304260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, although not as detailed as the set itself < 1286304265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually you ended up dividing by zero < 1286304306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1286304355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< pikhq> Microsoft Word: the worst program to design web pages in, and this *includes* Malbolge. ← you know how much I hated my school's computing course? < 1286304413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1286304487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still maintain that MS Publisher is an /even worse/ program for designing web pages < 1286304544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the markup is even less semantic than Word's (tables everywhere, even for simple text), the page is normally forced to a width different from that of your actual screen (Word doesn't do /that/), and it has a habit of randomly replacing text with images because it can't figure out how to render it as HTML < 1286304607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot, cursor positioning works < 1286304641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 lines now < 1286304720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is "MS Publisher"? < 1286304729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, language? < 1286304734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I heard the name once or twice, but I have never seen it < 1286304735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you don't want to know. < 1286304735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Python :/ < 1286304737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: be glad that you don't know the answer < 1286304740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "horrible" < 1286304756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay but what role is it intended to fill? < 1286304759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all I'm asking < 1286304762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <Vorpal> ais523, what is "MS Publisher"? <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, you don't want to know. <ais523> Vorpal: be glad that you don't know the answer <alise> Vorpal: "horrible" < 1286304762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you know when you open up a PDF in the GIMP or OpenOffice Draw or something like that? < 1286304771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um, no? < 1286304779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a bunch of maybe editable text, some images, all at exact locations on the page < 1286304786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I opened pdf in inkscape, to edit some vector graphics < 1286304793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inkscape will do fine as well < 1286304803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1286304814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you can open up printed documents like that, but it isn't too useful for actually understanding the document, agreed? < 1286304816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: MS Publisher is a bunch of little Word documents arranged in absolutely-positioned boxes < 1286304819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with absolute sizes < 1286304824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can copy-paste bits of text, but not much else < 1286304830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Publisher is that in reverse < 1286304832 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :236|<Vorpal> ais523, what is "MS Publisher"? <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, you don't want to know. <ais523> Vorpal: be glad that you don't know the answer <alise> Vorpal: "horrible" < 1286304838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, actually constructing printed documents via this method < 1286304902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fun fact: I actually had a useful printed document I made this way in Publisher ages ago, but it was too hard to transfer from one laptop to another, and almost impossible to edit in Linux; nothing reads .pub files, and the .ps files it outputs are absolute abominations) < 1286304907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um what? Opening up pdfs can be useful I found it useful to open up that thing in there, the vector graphics had too thin lines, so when included in a latex document (as "Figure 1: Diagram from simulation showing current over time" or something like that) the lines were invisible. < 1286304911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so I recreated it in Excel, which was actually easier despite it being a text document) < 1286304911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful: < 1286304913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1286304924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, that's an insane way to /create/ a PDF < 1286304947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the simulation program could only print the result iirc, not save it as an image < 1286304948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i *think* your method of explaining has a few too many steps of brainpower required to interpret. < 1286304953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try using words of two syllables or less < 1286304969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: were you forced to use Publisher at school? < 1286304971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes indeed insane way to create pdfs though < 1286304979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was, but can't remember, I suspect my brain has erased memories of it < 1286304984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah. i'm talking about for Vorpal though < 1286305027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Adobe Reader always shows lines at least a pixel thick (maybe even at least 2 pixels), even if they're thinner < 1286305035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, can't you edit the text directly in publisher? < 1286305037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, because I made a PDF with zero-width lines by mistake < 1286305043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, just as you can in an opened PDF < 1286305046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my old school used it *incessantly*. < 1286305057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked fine in Reader, but broken in Sumatra < 1286305058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My old school used Publisher incestuously!" < 1286305062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I'm not sure what caused it. I was using evince to view it, and it had to be scaled to fit into the latex figure < 1286305074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I couldn't see the lines, and that trick worked perfectly < 1286305082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how Vorpal's just gone on to ignoring ais523's lines and relaying his anecdote instead < 1286305092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I didn't. < 1286305097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I did both at once < 1286305105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, maybe you failed to keep up? < 1286305113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm semi-convinced that Vorpal permanently has his scrollbar a few lines from the bottom of the screen < 1286305119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he seems to only say things said around 15-20 lines ago < 1286305120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1286305122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or his brain just works *that* slowly < 1286305132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, s/say/see/ ? < 1286305160 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal smells funny. < 1286305160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/say/reply to/ < 1286305165 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION times response < 1286305167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I did get a bit lagged when writing that long line about inkscape, and I didn't bother to read the rest until I finished that line < 1286305221 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what annoys me is people that fill up the screen with related lines they could have combined in a single message < 1286305234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think my theory's correct < 1286305236 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather read a few long lines than a lot of short ones < 1286305236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, hm indeed < 1286305238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Y'know, I've got half a mind to extend Quod Libet to handle video. < 1286305240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it's a conversational format. < 1286305241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that there wasn't a response yet, but will be soon < 1286305247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get used to it. < 1286305261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, response to what? < 1286305266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> quintopia, hm indeed <-- *you* do it all the time < 1286305268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover's message < 1286305274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably hasn't scrolled onto your screen yet < 1286305277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1286305282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh that, I ignored it < 1286305282 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, i don't complain about it do I? I just sit silently and be annoyed. < 1286305297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He sits in range at the short line lengths! < 1286305297 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making this one exception to make my peeve known and shall not mention it again < 1286305302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, my roguelike actually uses the characters to determine what objects are < 1286305304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how robust! < 1286305307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I can't sensibly claim victory in this argument because my own argument was self-contradictory < 1286305309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still hilarious < 1286305309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at the very least write a video player that actually uses MKV metadata. < 1286305311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: people don't think of things all at once < 1286305315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it speeds up conversation < 1286305316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ooh, are you coding one? < 1286305318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1286305324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, it's golfed < 1286305328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and insane < 1286305334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, MY GOD, WHY AREN'T YOU EXACTLY FOLLOWING THE CONVERSATION < 1286305336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and played on an infinite plane filled with silly enemies and silly gold < 1286305338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, cool, how extensive? < 1286305340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286305342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Umm... infinite < 1286305343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1286305350 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: speeding up conversation is exactly the part about it that annoys me. People should just be smart enough to have large gestalts < 1286305355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 lines atm < 1286305357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, can you use the money for anything? Like shops? < 1286305361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: dude, this is IRC < 1286305366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would that take too much space? < 1286305374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe. < 1286305377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be pretty boring if not < 1286305385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not aiming for any absolute limit, just trimming down code wherever possible < 1286305387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and hm, is there any specific goal or does it just go on until you die? < 1286305388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what does "gestalt" mean in that context? < 1286305408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if the latter, the term "arcade rougelike" comes to my mind < 1286305413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems rather silly < 1286305413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably the latter < 1286305417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a victory condition would be too hard < 1286305419 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the series of connective ideas from one thought to another < 1286305423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and require non-randomness of some sort < 1286305425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, an arcadelike rougelike perhaps! < 1286305433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe after you get enough gold, you can go to a special boss level < 1286305439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286305483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not just teleporting straight away IMO. Would be better to spawn a teleporter or some stairs or something next to the player < 1286305491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a ? tile which actually *is* undetermined right up until you hit it < 1286305494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quantum tile < 1286305498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286305500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, there'd be like booths every now and then < 1286305503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a quite low probability < 1286305505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you'd have to go to < 1286305517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know payphone booths? < 1286305524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286305528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather rare these days < 1286305530 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they still have those < 1286305533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a pay-TARDIS < 1286305534 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen them < 1286305537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're common over here < 1286305545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes: the portal to the boss is a pay-TARDIS < 1286305548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of no better solution < 1286305549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen one for... 5 years or such? < 1286305554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1286305563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open booth, bigger on the inside, insert coins :P < 1286305573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also has phone and internet < 1286305580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any leveling system? < 1286305591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe. < 1286305602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to weight probability: in your random selection, have more copies of one tile! < 1286305608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I feel it wouldn't be much of a rougelike without leveling and equipments and such < 1286305623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T=' $$$$$%%%!' < 1286305637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, it crashes < 1286305638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is a reasonable way to do it yes < 1286305642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endwin() unfortunately erases the error message :P < 1286305654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't have something with like 1/1000th of the probability of the another thing < 1286305668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: thankfully, i am far too lazy to have that < 1286305678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nobody would find it, the gameworld is too boring to explore _that_ long < 1286305689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1286305696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need those booth to be uncommon < 1286305721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, in my test version i have some code i didn't change when the floor tile became space, not ., and it leaves a trail of .s behind you when you walk < 1286305723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as for crashing, hm... it managed to run endwin() after it crashed? < 1286305724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i might make that an item < 1286305740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh like "red yarn" or something? < 1286305741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :World's Largest Ball of Twine < 1286305743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking < 1286305749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1286305776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a bit annoying if you don't move in a mostly straight or curving line < 1286305786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really, it just helps you find where you went < 1286305792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286305794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useful if you're looking for that booth you saw seven screens ago < 1286305810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not if you criss crossed your path a lot before maybe hm < 1286305825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, can't have everything. < 1286305835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you plan to use fixed screens? Not centering on the player all the time? < 1286305865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1286305865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x<X-17:X-=1 < 1286305866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x>X+17:X+=1 < 1286305866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y<Y-5:Y-=1 < 1286305866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if y>Y+5:Y+=1 < 1286305873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can move around your centre area, but then it scrolls outside it < 1286305874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, jumping "window" < 1286305883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it scrolls around just fine, but doesn't give you a headache (I'm looking at you, Crawl) < 1286305883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works I guess < 1286305889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286305905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I find "always-centered-on-player" isn't too bad < 1286305913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do, so nyah < 1286305918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1286305919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the +n and -n if you want that :P < 1286305929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as long as you can see what you are moving to wards < 1286305936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :towards* < 1286305949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286305954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole field is visible at all times < 1286305960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which language? < 1286305968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, unlike NetHack, there is light, and you are not hideously short-sighted < 1286305970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: python. meh. < 1286305976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286305991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that explains those "not very golf-y newlines" at least < 1286306012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :len(';') == len('\n') < 1286306024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the indentation has an effect, but i can't avoid that < 1286306030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at the start) < 1286306031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1286306032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's an if < 1286306034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a block structure < 1286306038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can't just do ; and more of them < 1286306045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first line of that function: < 1286306047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : global x,y,X,Y;w[y,x]=46;x,y=a,b;w[y,x]=64 < 1286306052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um you can, but not sure it helps that much. Remember that irc bot in python with just lambda? < 1286306062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might take more space < 1286306064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1286306113 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, w[y,x]=46 ? < 1286306120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the . < 1286306125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to move away from there < 1286306125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286306126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w is the grid < 1286306130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(world) < 1286306140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T=' $$$$$%%%!' ;; I can't actually use this, it has to be charcodes, so: < 1286306141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T=[32]*10+[36]*5+[37]*3+[33] < 1286306142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1286306157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wut" < 1286306161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~/Code/vagrant$ wc -c vagrant.py < 1286306161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :633 vagrant.py < 1286306162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell yeah < 1286306171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [x]*n = [x,x,x,x...] n of them < 1286306175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1286306178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]+[...] = [...,...] < 1286306190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ! < 1286306226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also I assume the player is @ in the best of traditions? What about giving it a completely useless pet. Wait I'm detecting feature creep. < 1286306237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah no :P < 1286306249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, those weightings are a little off. < 1286306257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD: < 1286306265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://imgur.com/JTySy.png < 1286306267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean, nethack pets... just die a lot. When playing val I find it just gets in the way. < 1286306273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for wiz it makes sense but... < 1286306277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are very useful in sokoban. < 1286306284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end < 1286306288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: i have done that exactly once) < 1286306290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had like four pets < 1286306293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all gained in sokoban < 1286306296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for curse testing? < 1286306298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1286306300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the room at the end < 1286306305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes? < 1286306305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just let my four pets fight them all < 1286306307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't get a scratch < 1286306310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, the monsters inside < 1286306312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't the monsters all asleep < 1286306314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside < 1286306321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or didn't you have stealth? < 1286306325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't. < 1286306328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286306333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the harder version of the level, btw < 1286306346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oReflection one < 1286306361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but a monster got spawned on the Elbereth < 1286306363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, pets near the end of game can be useful. I mean, tame archeon? Or tame ki-rin (probably only reasonable for knights) < 1286306367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a werecreature stole it, I think < 1286306371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly wasn't there < 1286306390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286306397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol even changing the space weighting to 100 doesn't work < 1286306405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 is better < 1286306423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, lucky you didn't do the expanded array thing then < 1286306436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T=[32]*1000+[36]*5+[37]*3+[33] < 1286306437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:) < 1286306456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :len(T) = 1009 < 1286306458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way in Coq of bundling theorems together given some axioms? < 1286306467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you say that the ! was? < 1286306467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1286306474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: modules, "Parameter" < 1286306482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it sections? I forget < 1286306484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't -- potion. < 1286306487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286306494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you have some object Group which gives lots of goodies when passed the group, composition and axioms. < 1286306496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just HP potion :P < 1286306499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and $ is gold I presume... % is food? < 1286306504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286306518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hp potion will most likely just incr an internal hp potion counter by something random < 1286306525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what weapons will be available? < 1286306533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then quaffing a potion will heal min(sum, 15) or whatever < 1286306535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sections would seem to do it, but I don't know how they actually work. < 1286306540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your fists < 1286306545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: see manual ;) < 1286306545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no sword? < 1286306566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you could also think of it as a sword < 1286306571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really a rougelike without the equipment system < 1286306579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is starting to lose track of the BBC pop scientists < 1286306580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and levels < 1286306594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not exactly an avid follower. < 1286306602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dude, it's close enough! < 1286306724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't even have walls < 1286306728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i might add them. < 1286306787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286306800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, need them for boss and booth at least < 1286306806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :walls that is < 1286306815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the booth will actually just be a single character. < 1286306824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes but larger on the inside you said? < 1286306829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a TARDIS joke. < 1286306832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286306837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the effect of it being a pay-teleport will be conveyed entirely through one line of message :P < 1286306840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought that you would show it on screen < 1286306841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1286306845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it will < 1286306855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, randomly placing walls would be silly, because sooner or later you would then run into a barrier you couldn't pass. < 1286306867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You insert your gold into the slot. ... The door opens! --More--" < 1286306876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wow -- it's bigger on the inside! You see a big, shiny button. --More--" < 1286306877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given perfect randomness and so on < 1286306882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You press the button... --More--" < 1286306892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Suddenly, you find yourself in a barren desert, with this evil guy." < 1286306896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still Euclidean. I disapprove. < 1286306904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so go in another direction :P < 1286306925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, "technically", you could end up surrounded entirely by monsters < 1286306927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well sooner or later you will run into a wall that surrounds you < 1286306931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or there could never be a booth generated, ever < 1286306934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, you won't < 1286306938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even *close* to remotely probable < 1286306945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you can embed the hyperbolic plain into a terminal sensibly-ish. < 1286306945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not probably at all indeed < 1286306957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sooner or later it will happen, given an infinite plane < 1286306963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I'm completely wrong < 1286306983 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it would take ages, I assume. < 1286306985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perfect randomness of course < 1286306986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the probability approaches 1. < 1286306988 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes it would < 1286306996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, you do not have time to play that long < 1286307002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1286307002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given, say, the predicted age of the universe. < 1286307011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never claimed it was likely < 1286307023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, getting surrounded by walls at the start is more probable < 1286307035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that is just 8 tiles < 1286307038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not likely < 1286307042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but *more* likely < 1286307042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still hideously improbable :P < 1286307045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the low probability of walls < 1286307049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than running into it at some distance < 1286307064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed, getting two wall segments next to each other would be low < 1286307068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, approximate wall probability? < 1286307070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you try to deal with that < 1286307081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "small" < 1286307087 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh also: with walls you need LOS calculations < 1286307093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OOM? < 1286307093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will likely generate them separately or not at all < 1286307096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: er? why? < 1286307100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1286307108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, glass walls? < 1286307109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Order of magnitude? < 1286307119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T=[32]*1000+[36]*5+[37]*3+[35]*3+[33] < 1286307123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except more likely than that, probably < 1286307130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. < 1286307134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or you have x-ray vision < 1286307135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick one < 1286307144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286307183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I prefer the dungeon to be filled with strange cubes made of breakproof glass :P < 1286307300 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that if the attribute is found through the normal mechanism, __getattr__() is not called." <-- I love how this leaves what "the normal mechanism" is, up to the imagination. < 1286307326 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pulls a normal mechanism out of his pocket < 1286307332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to have a dividing line before the status line < 1286307334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's too confusing < 1286307383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I detect python naming there < 1286307390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks ugly < 1286307398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__slots__, __init__ and so on < 1286307432 0 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1286307432 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1286307432 0 :coppro!~scshunt@unaffiliated/scshunt JOIN :#esoteric < 1286307460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi coppro < 1286307492 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1286307557 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI POOPPY < 1286307719 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what else would I be carping about? < 1286307733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: does banging into a wall in nethack affect the turns? < 1286307735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, does it < 1286307778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err? < 1286307783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1286307785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@# < 1286307785 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: . ? @ v < 1286307785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1286307788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you mean, if you advance a turn if you try to walk into a wall? < 1286307790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1286307792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it erodes engravings, but has no other effect < 1286307796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the erosion on engravings is probably a bug < 1286307800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't think I ever tried XD < 1286307804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1286307809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is exploited to great effect by people reverse-engineering the RNG < 1286307820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it advances the RNG seed < 1286307895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listened to an interview on radio with a professor in discrete math. Quite unusual. < 1286307950 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, how could you know the seed < 1286307962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it's seeded with the current date and time, right? < 1286307968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286307969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have no message line, woo < 1286307977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, seeds follow a pattern, set off enough random events and you can figure out where in the pattern you are < 1286307987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286307993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone made a bunch of rainbow tables, they had to change the RNG to reseed from /dev/random in order to block that on NAO < 1286308001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it time() or gettimeofday() ? < 1286308009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the former you couldn't probably manage to figure out < 1286308022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter has way too high res for you to figure out when it ran without a debugger < 1286308034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the former, and you can get it within a few seconds pretty easily < 1286308048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1286308051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and within a second allowing for network lag and clock skew, which you can manage by seeing what happened with your failed attempts < 1286308085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway how easy would it be to figure out the seed if it started off from /dev/random? I mean, you could probably still figure it out with a table < 1286308092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking up start sequences < 1286308094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as I said, it was rainbow-tabled < 1286308109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh *re*seed < 1286308112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on NAO, it reseeds from /dev/random every now and then, paxed's keeping the exact interval secret < 1286308112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the "re" < 1286308129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on /dev/null, it uses a cryptographically secure RNG seeded from /dev/random < 1286308134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286308154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even a bunch of tables for doing AES quickly < 1286308167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1286308184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, /dev/random is a bit iffy though, compared to /dev/urandom. It would get stuck quickly quite easily if many people start games at the same time < 1286308195 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rainbow tables! man, i love that game < 1286308199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, probably /dev/urandom < 1286308203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what? < 1286308209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently using /dev/urandom directly was too slow < 1286308213 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know. rainbow tables! < 1286308222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yes, I know what they are. But "game"? < 1286308231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NetHack? < 1286308235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! the best! < 1286308237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286308243 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than musical chairs even! < 1286308246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought cpressey meant a game called "rainbow tables" < 1286308251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just confused me < 1286308257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okayyy, my M function is fucked up. < 1286308266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what does M do? < 1286308271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moves < 1286308273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and updates everything :P < 1286308275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286308687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def Q(x):s.move(23,0);s.insertln();s.addstr(23,0,x);s.getkey() < 1286308692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Why does everything suck? < 1286308697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because. < 1286308749 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class object: def __suck__(self): return True < 1286309042 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1286309045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: L+=int(not randint(0,3)and randint(5,10)) < 1286309047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHA < 1286309059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a bitwise and? < 1286309067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and likewise not) < 1286309068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1286309073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C logical? < 1286309077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1286309083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Python logical < 1286309088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, right < 1286309092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it returns the right argument only if the left is 0 < 1286309097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*False < 1286309100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 0 < 1286309102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or [] < 1286309102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or '' < 1286309103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1286309103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and int(True)=1, int(False)=0 < 1286309105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case I don't get the not < 1286309113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'll elaborate on the logic: < 1286309121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1/3 chance: increase HP by random in range 5 to 10" < 1286309171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and most of the time nothing happens < 1286309176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that 1/3 or 1/4? < 1286309231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, 1/4 < 1286309233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be 13 < 1286309234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1/3 < 1286309359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "H:-46" < 1286309361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some hunger < 1286309464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTFFF < 1286309470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hunger increases properly unless i hold down for a while < 1286309479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it stops increasing, then goes to something random when i move in a different direction < 1286309480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1286309485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffer overflow? < 1286309489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1286309567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: want to see the WIP version? < 1286309578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: everyone: you too < 1286309616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: HOW could hunger possibly go down like that?! < 1286309640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you're not mixing longjmp and autos, either < 1286309654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, the random number is probably significant, you should figure out what it's referring to < 1286309656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in Python? < 1286309661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's not random < 1286309663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually decreases < 1286309664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1286309676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you used the wrong variable name somewhere? < 1286309679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's mysteriously gained another digit < 1286309680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1286309687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s.addstr(22,0,'_'*80);C('$:%-17s T:%-17s H:%-17s HP:%-3s (%s)'%(G,N,H,L,P));s.move(y-Y+11,x-X+40) < 1286309693 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1286309696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G is Gold < 1286309701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N is turNs < 1286309703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H is Hunger < 1286309705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L is Life < 1286309707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P is Potion < 1286309747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, there is nowhere else I change these values... < 1286309757 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1286309763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1286309768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 8xx thing behaves like 1xx < 1286309774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 900 made me die < 1286309775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1286309807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's really annoying. Really really annoying. All the rips of Monty Python's Flying Circus out there are from the NTSC DVDs. < 1286309880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to make hunger actually be satiation < 1286309910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY WOULD I WANT NTSC VERSIONS OF A PAL BROADCAST? < 1286310010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I swear, this is *utterly* inscrutable to me. < 1286310015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wanna debug my golfed Roguelike?!?!?!?!?! < 1286310023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... GOD. < 1286310144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I can find from-PAL rips of the *movies*. < 1286310154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, the ones that are 24 fps. < 1286310155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DEBG < 1286310176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that I could de-telecine from the NTSC source) < 1286310240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I have to be pickier than everyone who does encodes for torrents? < 1286310242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear, it's like key repeat does nothing to this. < 1286310307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have to purchase the series from amazon.co.uk just to not be irritated. < 1286310338 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :farnsmetchl < 1286310367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... you torrent TV programs, but buy them if the torrents are in the wrong format? < 1286310389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out a code of laziness/ethics/piracy that would cause that to be your typicla behaviour < 1286310391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typical < 1286310425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually, I torrent them, but then get irritated at the low quality of the torrents, and I am now being irritated. < 1286310426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Piracy is not wrong, and I am a perfectionist." < 1286310435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what alise said. < 1286310435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is ... pretty much also my position. < 1286310444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1286310467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in *this* case, I made the DVD rips from roommate's box set, and am now being irritated that it wasn't in PAL. < 1286310538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: seriously, if I had the hard drive space to make it practical, I'd just be storing remuxes of the DVD. < 1286310605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, 1.2 Mbps h264 & source audio works. < 1286310721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Please figure out why Python is ignoring physics. < 1286310734 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw, how do you pronounce your nick? because i tried last night and what came out sounded really awful. < 1286310774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Peek aitch kyuu < 1286310774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentally pronounce it as in pik HQ < 1286310775 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you care, i found your hs bf compiler i had saved to my flash drive, and i said to myself, "oh yeah that's pikhq's" < 1286310783 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually just stop reading after "pik" < 1286310786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Eff you < 1286310820 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: probably because guido doesn't understand it? < 1286310823 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh! is it... supposed to sound similar to "Pikachu"? i'm surprised i never noticed < 1286310831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes. < 1286310841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I was 8 and fond of Pokémon. < 1286310857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce it "pikhq" < 1286310862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Vorpal: want to see the WIP version? <-- sure < 1286310864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me tell you, pronouncing "khq" is a BITCH. < 1286310875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I demand some IPA. < 1286310902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pi" as the start of pikachu; ktch-kyu but don't pronounce the u < 1286310918 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your GStreamer installation is missing a plug-in. | Your GStreamer installation is missing a plug-in. | Internal data flow error. | Your GStreamer installation is missing a plug-in. | Your GStreamer installation is missing a plug-in. | Internal data flow error. < 1286310923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As soon as I get quaffing working :P < 1286310926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No max HP hooray < 1286310929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should add that < 1286310989 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, music players on linux worked much better before gstreamer < 1286310996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also need to go through my anime collection and get rid of all the hardsub'd stuff. < 1286311007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardsubs anger me. < 1286311211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286311353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES THIS NOT FURK < 1286311405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: pastebin it somewhere, I'm interested now < 1286311423 0 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1286311423 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1286311423 0 :coppro!~scshunt@unaffiliated/scshunt JOIN :#esoteric < 1286311440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def C(x):s.insstr(23,0,' '*80);s.addstr(23,0,x);s.redrawwin();s.refresh() < 1286311443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this inexplicably fixes everything < 1286311445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the redraw lines) < 1286311464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastie.org/1201439.txt?key=fo9d7wsmz1xh8b6gwnkbvg < 1286311466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it break < 1286311470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove ";s.redrawwin();s.refresh()" < 1286311482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that fail: get a ! (potion), q(uaff) it, doesn't show until next turn < 1286311483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wasn't planning to run it < 1286311497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold down j (only j works, I have no idea why), watch turn and satiation counters not change after a while < 1286311500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move in another direction < 1286311501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go WTF < 1286311507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's perfectly innocuous... < 1286311519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Vorpal: No max HP hooray <-- heh < 1286311524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is now < 1286311525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(300) < 1286311592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286311596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any leveling? < 1286311601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1286311607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't much of a rougelike without that :( < 1286311610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or monsters yet < 1286311616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: does anything else on your botl update? < 1286311620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh eff of, it's going to be like 150 lines *with* the boss < 1286311623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if it's an issue with the cursor position < 1286311627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: $ when you get $ < 1286311632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you call it? < 1286311634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HP obviously < 1286311637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: vagrant < 1286311639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vagrant.py < 1286311650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eff off < 1286311662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah I need to make a Vagrant'ELM then (Extended Levels and Magic) ;) < 1286311695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably won't do it though, not enough motivation < 1286311753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1286311755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems I more and more prefer thinking about programming than actually programming. Not just the theoretical parts, but also sometimes the implementation details < 1286311763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you actually figure it out, do enlighten me :P < 1286311766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only someone invented a serialization interface for the brain < 1286311796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so N and S don't change, but G does? < 1286311819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I thought about brainfuck optimisation quite a bit recently, and thought of some interesting things, but meh, can't be bothered to code all the analysis needed for it. < 1286311830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly ways to optimise unbalanced loops < 1286311853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :require quite a lot of graph operations to figure out invariants and such < 1286311971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: N and S change, yes. < 1286311973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them change < 1286311977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at different times < 1286311982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N and S change in lockstep except when you eat < 1286311982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, when holding down k < 1286311984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*j < 1286311987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than in general < 1286311992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: N and S change but not G unless you run into anything. < 1286311998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any $s, in particular < 1286312004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P would change if you run into a potion < 1286312006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this happens on open space < 1286312008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when holding down j and N and S become bugged, does G also change? < 1286312014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you hit a $ at random? < 1286312017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somehow, *not redrawing* causes the variables to change state permanently(?!?!?!) < 1286312028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not sure, it's never happened to me < 1286312030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to try < 1286312031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1286312033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, argh not vimkeys < 1286312038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numpad numpad! < 1286312041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. < 1286312042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1286312044 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :( < 1286312061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I assumed you'd use vikeys for roguelikes... < 1286312067 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numpad controls + laptop = argh < 1286312073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he is allergic to vikeys < 1286312075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's why I learnt vikeys initially < 1286312078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and religiously insists on numpad < 1286312079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now really < 1286312079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1286312248 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python would be just that much less obnoxious if only it had 'isa' and 'has' and 'can' < 1286312434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Imagine the storage space that could be had if we brought back 5¼" hard drives. < 1286312455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know. < 1286312459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/alise: // < 1286312481 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I touched one once! It was already dead, alas. < 1286312547 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286312698 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_%28programming_language%29 < 1286312885 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a language where tokenization happens on case-change boundaries < 1286312944 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapDivPrint < 1286312948 0 :pineal_aenimal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 241 seconds < 1286312952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a 40 MB 5.25" IDE HD in my closet. Imagine the storage space. < 1286312982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A modern 5¼" drive. Imagine what could be. < 1286313018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I recall correctly, it's split to a 32 MB and 8 MB FAT partitions, because DOS ~3.2 didn't support such hugeness. < 1286313199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: when you get back, I can't see what's causing the error, but am confused about scopes; why is there a "global" in M but not D? < 1286313272 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that should be: swapDIVprint < 1286313477 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should totally write a utility that just fills my terminal with randomly coloured solid squares. < 1286313482 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would actually find this useful < 1286313516 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my poorman's version is ls -la with dir colourization active < 1286313538 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286313554 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286313571 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai < 1286313593 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi threw "status access violation" or something < 1286313702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral: don't mess with the status access. < 1286313712 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-70-79.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286313712 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1286313712 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1286313790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, wait, it was you who did Burro, right? < 1286313861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The same! < 1286313867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean: yes. < 1286313913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: why do you want a utility to do that? < 1286313914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To beat a dead horse some more, aren't groups and monads the same kind of thing? < 1286313916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be too hard... < 1286313957 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To easily see when I've reached the top of the output of the last command I issued when I browse the scrollback. < 1286313964 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run ls -la before it. < 1286313966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1286313983 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running 'rainbow vomit' or such would be much cooler, though. < 1286314053 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Same kind of thing? Sure. < 1286314082 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have this thing, and this other thing, and they do stuff. < 1286314182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a group is a set G, a function . : G×G→G and the conditions of identity, inversion and associativity. < 1286314182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> Vorpal: I assumed you'd use vikeys for roguelikes... <-- this is not the first time you told me that < 1286314186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I told you I do not < 1286314201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is like the 7th time over the past few years < 1286314248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cpressey> Python would be just that much less obnoxious if only it had 'isa' and 'has' and 'can' <--- like... "import foo" → "can has foo"? < 1286314251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1286314262 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A monad is a functor m, functions unit and join and the monad laws. < 1286314284 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A group is a tool for studying symmetry mathematically. < 1286314289 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your turn. < 1286314312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touché... < 1286314391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tofu < 1286314405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you only need global to assign < 1286314407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think the category-theoretical definition of monads involves wrapping around data. < 1286314407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank guido < 1286314417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not really. < 1286314432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, VERY SLIGHTLY < 1286314436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you sure? does it not form a closure without? < 1286314455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not if you do += < 1286314455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not exactly what I had in mind < 1286314458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works if you do =, just forms a closure < 1286314461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you do += it fails < 1286314467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it expands to < 1286314468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = x + ... < 1286314469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I suspected as much < 1286314470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x isn't definef < 1286314471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*defined < 1286314473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're defining it < 1286314478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be part of the new scope, not globals < 1286314479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it errors < 1286314480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1286314487 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hail the simplicity of unscopedness < 1286314491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I mean, if you use a variable inside a definition, don't you read the value it had when the definition was defined? < 1286314492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hovering I just couldnt resist joking about that horrible lolcode < 1286314505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's put it this way < 1286314507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=3 < 1286314510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f():return x < 1286314512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f() => 3 < 1286314514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :------------------- < 1286314515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=3 < 1286314518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f(): < 1286314521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x=9 < 1286314522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return x < 1286314523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f() => 9 < 1286314524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1286314525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-------------- < 1286314526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 3 < 1286314526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1286314527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f(): < 1286314530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of scoping is that? < 1286314530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x = x + 3 < 1286314533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return x < 1286314534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f() => ERROR < 1286314543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it sees that x is defined somewhere, yet you use it before it's defined! < 1286314547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, that scoping is okay < 1286314548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first two < 1286314551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one doesn't modify the global < 1286314558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it creates a local < 1286314559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now finally < 1286314560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 3 < 1286314561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one looks like some sort of scope-by-reference < 1286314563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1286314565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1286314569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't mutate global x < 1286314573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third one is the real issue < 1286314574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already said that < 1286314577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally < 1286314577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1286314578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 3 < 1286314579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f() < 1286314581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f(): < 1286314582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : global x < 1286314585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x = x + 3 < 1286314586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return x < 1286314588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f() => 6 < 1286314589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x => 6 < 1286314593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking about x=3; def f(): return x; x=9; print f() < 1286314598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't a case you've suggested so far < 1286314603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 9 < 1286314609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was bletching at < 1286314623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1286314628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is wrong order? < 1286314635 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hail < 1286314648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose it's using lexical scoping there < 1286314652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but explicit < 1286314660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh? < 1286314663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to show f's grouping < 1286314668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=3 < 1286314670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f(): < 1286314671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return x < 1286314671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=9 < 1286314677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print f() => prints 9 < 1286314678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant < 1286314679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is obvious < 1286314679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws a hail storm at cpressey < 1286314682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what everything does < 1286314687 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hailstorm* < 1286314704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't Haskell allow you to define monads that don't even obey the monad laws. < 1286314705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English isn't even consistent about *which* words it writes as one < 1286314705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here, x in f() means "the current value of the variable x that exists in the scope where f was defined" < 1286314705 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "lexical" < 1286314709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1286314721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's lexical scoping < 1286314734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there, yes < 1286314738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1286314752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you explain this in English: "hailstorm" but "car engine", why not "hail storm" or "carengine" < 1286314756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MADNESS < 1286314771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: historical accident < 1286314777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "hail storm" is also correct < 1286314790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there any pattern to when words are written together and when they aren't? < 1286314790 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "hail stone" might not be < 1286314799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, see < 1286314805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not that I know of < 1286314807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more confusing < 1286314819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Swedish isn't totally consistent either so shaddup < 1286314832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a lot more though, also any specific examples? < 1286314887 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you imported the word "gravad lax" from Swedish (much like you did with smörgåsbord), except you turned it into "gravadlax" iirc. Since usually it is English who writes as separate words it doesn't make much sense XD. (Also it is completely logically that it should be two words in Swedish) < 1286314888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't know swedish, but i know for a fact it isn't totally consistent. < 1286314894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if anyone cares I could explain why) < 1286314902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also know that if anyone used it as much as english, it would be just as inconsistent < 1286314920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, correct, we have other issues, you have easy rules for when to use "a" and when to use "an", we have en/ett and no easy rules for when to use which < 1286314956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I simply have no idea how that code could possibly cause the number of turns to decrease, ever. < 1286314974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was just looking for a pattern in this specific issue, I did not claim Swedish was consistent in general of course. Such a claim would be absurd. Where did you get that from? < 1286315004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowhere < 1286315013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying stop acting like it's strange that english is so abhorrently inconsistent < 1286315018 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1286315032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not. I was just wondering about a specific issue < 1286315044 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language doesn't travel halfway across the globe without picking up a few venereal diseases < 1286315046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise,, maybe you should try to base your attacks on something more substantial than thin air next time < 1286315047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1286315065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you often complain about english. < 1286315069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is really irritating and boring. < 1286315076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, my interest in this was simply finding a better way to figure out than checking if aspell accepts the written together form < 1286315085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The pattern is this: English does compound words with spaces between the components. Things that don't do this are exceptions. < 1286315095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't generalise. I didn't do it in this case. < 1286315104 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so yeah your attack was based on thin air < 1286315113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also: always-adding-spaces is also correct. < 1286315117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1286315125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, like "hail stone"? < 1286315126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Correct but inidiomatic. < 1286315131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfectly correct. < 1286315133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with English, really, only idiomatic matters. < 1286315135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286315139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1286315141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hail stone isn't < 1286315149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hailstone isn't a type of stone < 1286315153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a hailstone < 1286315157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a hail storm is a storm of hail < 1286315161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It doesn't get noticed at all as unidiomatic. And in fact I'd write it as "hail stone", likely. < 1286315163 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i will certainly know what you mean if you say "a hail stone hit me in the forehead" < 1286315176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about "arrow head" then? < 1286315187 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286315191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds monsters < 1286315201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nice, what sort of monsters? < 1286315201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :germanic vs latinate steel cage match < 1286315204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd write that as "arrowhead". < 1286315204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: evil ones < 1286315214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, correction: "fore head" :P < 1286315216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monsters that only start moving when you walk into their view: realistic! < 1286315221 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286315223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think "arrow head" is wrong, though. < 1286315226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, same, but would "arrow head" be correct? < 1286315229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286315242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "fore head" screams "wrong" though. < 1286315249 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"arrow head" has amusing connotations to me. like it's an unusual part of an arrow. < 1286315264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm parsing "fore" as a morpheme but not an individual word. < 1286315271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah, which shows that the "spaces is always correct" rule suddenly breaks down :P < 1286315276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286315284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you have fore and aft hm < 1286315292 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :star board < 1286315298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what should monsters look like. < 1286315305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: English orthography is hard, mmkay? < 1286315313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, that should be "stearing side", iirc that is the history of the term < 1286315322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q. Q is a good monster colour. < 1286315324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comes from scandinavian langauges iirc < 1286315327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old norse or such < 1286315348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "styrbord" in Swedish, which is a lot closer to making sense in the modern form < 1286315364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like starboard which changed so much that it doesn't make immediate sense any more < 1286315389 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i hasten to point out that there is no "steering side" on a modern ship either < 1286315399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/Large_Hailstons_in_Leipzig_Jun06.jpg < 1286315402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1286315405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, "The origin of the term starboard comes from early boating practices. Before ships had rudders on their centerlines, they were steered by use of a specialized steering oar. This oar was held by an oarsman located in the stern (back) of the ship. However, like most of society, there were many more right-handed sailors than left-handed sailors. This meant that the steering oar (which had been broadened to provide better control) used to < 1286315405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : be affixed to the right side of the ship." < 1286315419 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286315422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to store health for every single monster... Hmm. < 1286315444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, not on modern ones, but surely you have seen viking ships on TV and museums and such? < 1286315447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not over there < 1286315448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286315450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: make hitting the monster kill it outright with small probability, do nothing otherwise? < 1286315460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the more you pound on any given monster, the more likely it is to die in that time? < 1286315465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Stupid interpretation of US law ahoy: "if corporations are people, and slavery is the trade/exchange/purchase/sale of people, and the stock market is the trade/exchange/purchase/sale of corporations. Then in effect, the Stock Market is a slave Market." < 1286315476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the law literally says "CORPORATIONS ARE PEOPLE" < 1286315476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that one < 1286315479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is why corporations get jobs! < 1286315481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, he's *serious* < 1286315486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("The Citizens United ruling either needs to be overturned or the Stock Market needs to be eliminated for violating the Constitution...") < 1286315509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that the word "owning" has a different meaning wrt corporations, and wrt natural persons, to some extent < 1286315515 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-224-53.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1286315521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, if you can control a person's actions via voting at them, isn't that slavery in some respects? < 1286315524 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did put it in terms of 'if then' < 1286315543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I think that argument might technically be legally correct with a literal meaning < 1286315549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> ais523: no, he's *serious* <-- who? < 1286315553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: reddit < 1286315555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286315563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but no law says "corporations are people" < 1286315568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "corporations have these rights, yada yada yada" < 1286315583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was a law defining corporations as "persons" < 1286315585 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept is "corporate personhood" < 1286315587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stupid legal plurals...) < 1286315590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if not randint(0,14): < 1286315590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Q('Euuch! That must have been poisoned...',1);L-=randint(15,20) < 1286315593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food is a bitch in this game < 1286315596 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that corporations have all the same rights as people < 1286315606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: not all, IIRC < 1286315607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just many < 1286315620 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the concept. not the reality < 1286315620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/dn3b9/can_we_make_this_happen_redditor_suggests/c11fnbm < 1286315627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ from someone who actually knows it :P < 1286315636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While I disagree violently with the ruling, and I think it sets a dangerous precedent in law and allows a destabilizing financial force to enter our political process, the OP's remarks above have no basis in law or reality and would certainly have no power to convince a jury to repeal this verdict." < 1286315674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a while back, I had a bit of crisis, in that I oppose corporate personhood but supported agoran partnerships < 1286315677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then I realised IT'S A GAME < 1286315694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agoran partnerships are clearly a bad idea if you're trying to build a fair democracy < 1286315706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing that that isn't the goal at Agora, or it would be a very boring game < 1286315740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :) < 1286315809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I think you can oppose corporate personhood and support agoran partnerships for the same reasons < 1286315809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to inject viral rules into Agora? < 1286315815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, and has been done before now < 1286315819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt it would be all that interesting < 1286315825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did they do? < 1286315846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them changed precedences at random, IIRC < 1286315852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it was a rule fragment that made the rule defer to other rules < 1286315892 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1286315900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would it spread? < 1286315920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it wasn't a truly independent virus, but rather was spread by a separate rule < 1286315929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286315932 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any fully permanent rules? < 1286315941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would a truly independent one work? < 1286315952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd contain the code for replicating itself < 1286315957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what is it with crazy Americans and not wanting to pay income tax? < 1286315963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, as in any rule can in theory be changed via a 3:1 majority < 1286315966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286315978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so that rule is therefore immutable. < 1286315991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, couldn't that be changed to require a 4:1 ? < 1286315995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed < 1286316010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could change the rules to make them truly immutable, although such a change would be unlikely to pass < 1286316011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, even the fountain? < 1286316030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? < 1286316031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1286316034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a power=3 rule to kill it < 1286316036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the fountain can legally be changed at AI 3; most people would think it very bad form to change it at an AI less than 4, though < 1286316046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AI? < 1286316050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many people think it should only be changed via scam < 1286316058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Agoran Intelligence? < 1286316060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the higher the AI, the harder it is for a proposal to pass, but the more it can if it does pass < 1286316064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And surely the voting rules are immutable? < 1286316065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more it can do < 1286316065 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286316073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and of course not, they change frequently in fact < 1286316079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does AI stand for? < 1286316086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adoption index < 1286316089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1286316090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah* < 1286316098 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286316100 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so can the 3:1 rule be disabled and then a permanent rule introduced? < 1286316102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, 3 is enough to change anything, but by convention some things need more (and people vote against otherwise) < 1286316106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: of course < 1286316112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other rules need to be disabled too to make a permanent rule < 1286316116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has this been attempted? < 1286316119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as the one that says permanent rules are disallowed < 1286316125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, because permanent rules are a stupid idea < 1286316137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permanent viral rules? < 1286316137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the whole point of a nomic is to not have permanent rules < 1286316143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the 3:1 rule is just the proposal-passing rule. < 1286316144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that's a bad idea < 1286316155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you even want a permanent viral rule? < 1286316158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single rule which says only "this rule is immutable". < 1286316171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that would be bad form IMO < 1286316178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a permanent trophy, make it too cool to repeal < 1286316195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, people will never vote to repeal it < 1286316197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as the fountain? < 1286316200 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.83.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286316202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1286316210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wasn't there a whale too? < 1286316214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 104's never been changed, and as a result, most players will refuse to vote for changes to it < 1286316222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as there's no reason to change or repeal it < 1286316235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: rule 2105 < 1286316243 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to egobot? < 1286316248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://www.agoranomic.org/ <-- wait, did they redesign that page < 1286316250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one's was explicitly intended for people to scam their way into, eventually, but it lasted longer than expected < 1286316253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "they"? < 1286316254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the agora nomic website that is < 1286316256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote that < 1286316260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286316260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ais523 rewrote it, now it's unreadable < 1286316267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no it isn't < 1286316268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because of the silly two columns) < 1286316269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and alise has gone all crazy about inability to read the page < 1286316269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just different < 1286316277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if a page is in two columns and one is ads, is it unreadable? < 1286316292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why would two columns be unreadable < 1286316292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'd fill a whole column with ads? < 1286316296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia main page uses that < 1286316298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I've seen it done < 1286316299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot more < 1286316301 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286316308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I try and keep a policy of not talking to anyone who takes disagreement as "going all crazy" < 1286316309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w3c uses 3 columns iirc < 1286316312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't, I mean < 1286316313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so please don't. < 1286316324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you can filter out ads from a second column, why not text? < 1286316329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: w3c uses three columns, of which one is content and the other two is navigation < 1286316330 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agora would seem an interesting thing to do, but I suspect it'd require a large investment of time and effort... < 1286316343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway why is two columns of text wrong? < 1286316354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, it requires basically 0 < 1286316361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not that much, you only need to pay attention once a week or so, maybe even less < 1286316366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a lazy arse who just mocks wooble every now and then on the mailing list < 1286316368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm still a player < 1286316390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want things to /happen/, you basically have to do them yourself, otherwise it just sits there doing nothing but the occasional report < 1286316402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you're content to watch and chip in occasionally, hardly any effort's required < 1286316434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't understand rule 104 < 1286316438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just read it < 1286316448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is a speaker in agora? It takes too much to find the relevant rules < 1286316451 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION offers ais523 as a sacrifice to summon Egobot. < 1286316452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Speaker for the first game shall be Michael Norrish < 1286316455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1286316468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, you said that "<ais523> rule 104's never been changed, and as a result, most players will refuse to vote for changes to it" < 1286316469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so um < 1286316472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Speaker for the first game /was/ Michael Norrish, it doesn't matter what it means now < 1286316477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, I still have the swatpan. < 1286316481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1286316486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swatpans ais523 --==\#/ < 1286316488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, Michael Norrish is obligated to be MIchael Norrish, an obligation that he takes very seriously < 1286316498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err? XD < 1286316510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once, Michael Norrish was not Michael Norrish < 1286316514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we exiled him from the game retroactively < 1286316527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is that just a blatant lie? < 1286316532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286316532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you know something you aren't telling me? < 1286316538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know ... all things ... < 1286316549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's as much of a blatant lie as him being serious about his responsibility to be himself) < 1286316552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is to say, entirely) < 1286316563 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286316569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, it was found via CFJ that he legally had to be Michael Norrish < 1286316578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he's generally been pretty good about keeping to the rules < 1286316587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1286316591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, I have an excellent idea < 1286316602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Michael Norrish is breaking the rules; I'll elaborate in /msg < 1286316642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm does "suffusion of yellow" come from Dirk Gently or does it have some older source? < 1286316664 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: a sacrifice to Gregor, I assume < 1286316682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: incidentally, I learnt WML from looking at existing examples < 1286316683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I mad? < 1286316688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dirk gently < 1286316697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wait, no < 1286316699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RishoNomic < 1286316704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rishonomic < 1286316706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Dirk Gently would be older < 1286316707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1286316716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't < 1286316719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it shouldn't be too hard < 1286316723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you see how much time travel was in that story? < 1286316735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err...? < 1286316737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what a language! < 1286316749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like someone decided to make an XML-based language, and was serious about it < 1286316755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mixed it with the C preprocessor < 1286316765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but it is a DSL so learning it from examples wouldn't be impossible < 1286316778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in my experience < 1286316782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it isn't a DSL, really < 1286316786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1286316786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty general language < 1286316790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1286316813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I thought it was heavy on [ ] for syntax? was that the preprocessor stuff? < 1286316857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, that's the XML < 1286316862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses square brackets rather than angle brackets < 1286316871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the preprocessor uses #ifdef, etc, as in C < 1286316877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that # is /also/ a comment character < 1286316882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, it uses braces < 1286316891 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1286316915 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it pluggable? < 1286316918 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be pluggable. < 1286316930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: very pluggable < 1286316940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1286316941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do {path/to/directory} < 1286316948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it automatically #includes every file in that directory < 1286316961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is WML the WAP one? < 1286316962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not #include or anything such? < 1286316963 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1286316964 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1286316969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not < 1286316970 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: a sacrifice to anyone with the power to summon egobot. I want to test a BF Joust entry before I add it to the wiki :-) < 1286316970 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does order matter? < 1286316972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, Battle for Wesnoth < 1286316974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no? it is wesnoth < 1286316988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not called #include, it's called {}, which is the syntax also used for something entirely different < 1286316995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, XD < 1286317001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, the game disambiguates by checking to see if the file in question exists or not < 1286317004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I guess it is not LR(1) or? < 1286317011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286317016 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed crazy parsing at least < 1286317016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, hopefully it checks the list of definitions first) < 1286317023 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the best kind of context dependency ever! < 1286317026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it's basically XML, it parses incredibly regularly < 1286317040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh, but not preprocessing? < 1286317040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the only way I found to make it error at all is to include a mismatched bracket or something like that < 1286317049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else just fails silently < 1286317057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's rather nasty < 1286317078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lang isn't aware that it's trapped inside Wesnoth < 1286317078 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also why is the preprocessor used? Not for control flow I presume? < 1286317083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for subroutines < 1286317083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOAST A BEAR < 1286317087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is inlined < 1286317089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *ouhc* < 1286317093 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ouch* < 1286317106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not large enough toaster < 1286317106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a way around it, but it's really complex, involving setting up events to call each other in the future < 1286317109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, otherwise: sure < 1286317111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the subroutines are more efficient < 1286317117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: < 1286317121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal would eat toasted bear < 1286317126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I wouldn't < 1286317129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that the loading bar when you start playing is mostly inlining subroutines < 1286317130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would toast it < 1286317136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say I would eat the result < 1286317137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :P < 1286317155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, please read what it says, I would test it on you first < 1286317159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see if it was eatable < 1286317184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*edible? < 1286317190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, who eats a /toaster/ < 1286317191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, edible as well < 1286317205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eatable and edible, what a requirement < 1286317214 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1286317217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eatable I define as "physically possible to eat, like you can get it into your mouth and so on" < 1286317220 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1286317221 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomable? < 1286317224 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does firefox suck so much < 1286317230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edible I define as the usual meaning < 1286317230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your definition does not agree with the english language < 1286317233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: because it isn't chrome < 1286317238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything edible; That can be eaten without harm; non-toxic to humans; suitable for consumption; That can be eaten without disgust < 1286317239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en.wiktionary.org/wiki/edible < 1286317241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course not, since when did it ever do that? < 1286317241 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: due to excessive suckage < 1286317242 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you know :( < 1286317249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "edible" does not mean "nice" < 1286317250 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise stop reading my mind < 1286317251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome seems like an appropriate material to plate a toaster with... < 1286317256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"edible" means "literally able to be eaten" < 1286317267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eatable < 1286317268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what you mean by "eatable" is actually "edible" < 1286317273 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> jesus fuck < 1286317273 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> why is it so hard to find an extension for firefox < 1286317273 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> that makes the address bar search things, like in chrome? < 1286317273 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> it is impossible < 1286317273 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* cheater99 says that with a french accent < 1286317275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alis<alise> Vorpal: "edible" does not mean "nice" <-- correct < 1286317287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but see my link < 1286317295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edible (not comparable) < 1286317295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can be eaten without harm; non-toxic to humans; suitable for consumption. < 1286317295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eatable (comparative more eatable, superlative most eatable) < 1286317295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Able to be eaten; edible < 1286317299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mean the same thing. < 1286317299 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what if you say a girl is edible < 1286317306 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay then < 1286317306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that eatable makes no sense. < 1286317313 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that mean she's nice? < 1286317315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it exists as a word < 1286317316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edible also means "That can be eaten without disgust." but less so < 1286317318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, thus :P < 1286317325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: "Yeah, she's totally non-toxic to humans". < 1286317332 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1286317348 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well "inedible" can still be "digestible" < 1286317357 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, there are some types of mushrooms < 1286317360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a guy digested a plane < 1286317360 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are not edible < 1286317363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean the plane is edible :P < 1286317368 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you force yourself to eat them, you won't die < 1286317384 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or get ill < 1286317388 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are just terrible in taste < 1286317392 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and difficult to chew < 1286317396 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1286317406 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a pinch, they provide protein < 1286317424 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1286317472 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise have you ever picked mushrooms < 1286317482 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you a person who enjoys trip to the woods < 1286317489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1286317500 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're missing out < 1286317554 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1286317570 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1286317604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, here is what I dislike about doing that: < 1286317625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exhibit A: Mushroom tasting nice. < 1286317629 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suddenly start hallucinating and find yourself in devonshire? < 1286317636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exhibit B: Looks exactly like A but lethal < 1286317644 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with clothes on you've never seen before? < 1286317649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exhibit C: Looks exactly like A but causes you to hallucinate < 1286317660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exhibit D: Looks exactly like A but just tastes boring < 1286317665 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inedible mushrooms look completely different < 1286317672 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what you're talking about < 1286317677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see no problem with exhibit c :) < 1286317687 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALISE :O < 1286317698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or d, really < 1286317701 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly thinks alise is a miscreant < 1286317705 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1286317712 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1286317714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, depends on if you serve it at the annual anti-drug society meeting :P < 1286317721 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: haha < 1286317742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes B is the issue < 1286317760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, anyway what about "kantarell" whatever that is called in English I don't know < 1286317771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc there are some sorts that look extremely similar to a lethal one < 1286317775 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll give you a hint: < 1286317777 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find out < 1286317791 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then tell me what they're called in english. < 1286317838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes two seconds with interwiki, maybe Vorpal could take the effort. < 1286317841 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean podgrzybek szatański, whatever that is called in english i don't know. < 1286317853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286317861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out it was not the one I was thinking of < 1286317873 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal, i think you need to use the wyszukiwarka tekstu. < 1286317886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, I'm looking for the one I meant < 1286317894 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok good < 1286317906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was not kantarell (chanterelle) < 1286317918 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1286317921 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 11:30 pm < 1286317930 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i go eat some french cheese? < 1286317962 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you enjoy cheese? < 1286317968 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i bet you're all for cheese < 1286318007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well not all sorts < 1286318012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't stand goat cheese < 1286318035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes it was chantarell < 1286318044 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, this is the very similar one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygrophoropsis_aurantiaca < 1286318070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lethal < 1286318072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still nasty < 1286318119 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok lets talk about mushrooms < 1286318141 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286318147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, anyway, there you are, night now → < 1286318165 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are pairs of very good and very toxic mushrooms that look very near the same... < 1286318184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, exactly < 1286318186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→→ < 1286318211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: AI is hard, maybe I'll just make them walk randomly. < 1286318257 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: make them kill their own kind < 1286318311 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: and add mushrooms of hallucination < 1286318327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hallu would be hard with my design < 1286318328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe not < 1286318341 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: they look nearly the same, except their biotopes don't intersect. < 1286318341 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost never ever. < 1286318348 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they do, every guide book has a big warning about it < 1286318370 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lists the give away characteristics < 1286318384 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there are at least one pair of mushrooms that look nearly the same, but one is very good and one tastes extremely bad. < 1286318400 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is the evil twin < 1286318461 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point stands < 1286318485 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1286318532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha wow hallu is amazing < 1286318757 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1286318810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it's evil. < 1286318819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even you can change character. < 1286318869 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This mushroom is commonly confused with the Chanterelle; the distinguishing factors are color (true Chanterelle is uniform egg-yellow, while the false one is more orange in hue and graded, with darker center) and attachment of gills to the stem (true Chanterelle does not have true, blade-like gills--rather, has rib-like folds running down the stem). < 1286318871 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1286318884 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those blades are the giveaway < 1286318927 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what hallu? < 1286318940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What game? < 1286318940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: hallu in vagrant, my silly roguelike < 1286318944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1286318967 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh, i thought you meant a hallucination < 1286318975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :65 lines of python and no architecture that'll let enemies behave non-stupidly! < 1286318977 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i thought you have realized your plan of taking magical mushrooms < 1286318978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1286318979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1286318984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can make them chase you no matter what < 1286318992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: lol, that'd be some speed < 1286319032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, another one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blusher < 1286319091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe killing a dude should give you like $1,000 < 1286319146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your roguelike needs to be easily FooTV-like-system-able < 1286319154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably one of my favorite things about Crawl < 1286319160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there is only one enemy and it doesn't even move. < 1286319161 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Sgeo < 1286319164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet at least < 1286319167 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: umm, HELLOO < 1286319171 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone home? < 1286319178 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on this shitty lcd monitor.. < 1286319181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably lots of people < 1286319183 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see this thing is pink < 1286319192 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you ever think it's edible? < 1286319204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, utter fail < 1286319204 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edible mushrooms are yellow-brown. < 1286319206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Although edible, it can be confused with deadly poisonous species, and should definitely be avoided by novice mushroomers." < 1286319227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and novice bear toasters alike < 1286319228 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there you go < 1286319233 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares if it's edible < 1286319235 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't touch it < 1286319238 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a different one < 1286319242 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286319244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~/Code/vagrant$ wc -c vagrant.py < 1286319244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1605 vagrant.py < 1286319246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty good charcount for this < 1286319250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, still my point stands: they all look alike unless you are an expert < 1286319267 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you ever want to do that < 1286319275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what? < 1286319281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat mushrooms? good question < 1286319285 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :search for mushrooms which look like shitty ones < 1286319286 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run wc? < 1286319321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, irrelevant for my original claim < 1286319325 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: paste code plz < 1286319334 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your original claim was that it was a problem < 1286319336 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it is not. < 1286319339 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u loze < 1286319343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, it is < 1286319352 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to someone who does dumb things, yes < 1286319362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the biotope thing is not enough to help me at least. I'm not a nature person < 1286319369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't tell what biotope it was < 1286319379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus my original claim stands < 1286319425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, also /<cheater99> u/s/u/you/;s/loze/lose/ < 1286319430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn to spell < 1286319433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1286319449 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrn2sed < 1286319476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, yes it was completely correct sed < 1286319490 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought u sed nite < 1286319498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, I had not turned off monitor yet < 1286319530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, also please learn to type. people writing "u" instead of "you" and so on is *really* annoying < 1286319532 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you don't say "correct sed", you say "correctly sed". < 1286319536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh it is? < 1286319539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes them look like idiots < 1286319544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well ull hav 2 get used 2 it < 1286319549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wont u < 1286319550 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vlr; < 1286319553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, And indeed, so you said < 1286319557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *sed < 1286319560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *'n < 1286319564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*u < 1286319574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> also, you don't say "correct sed", you say "correctly sed". <-- no, I used sed as a verb < 1286319578 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: n' no commaz < 1286319581 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dat iz unkool. < 1286319583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1286319588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean noun of course < 1286319589 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*w8 < 1286319592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it both ways < 1286319595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :punk-tutuashion is unk00wl < 1286319600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart 4rom - < 1286319610 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u sed it alise < 1286319611 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1286319615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know, this is just filtered out :P < 1286319616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it/alise/ < 1286319622 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^5! < 1286319633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I say good night, unlike last time I used /away as well < 1286319638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes a difference → < 1286319651 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dat < 1286319651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you should debug my code < 1286319655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hi < 1286319660 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: url? < 1286319679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: http://pastie.org/1201769.txt?key=xtvbpktbvv5gbzotg5bphw < 1286319683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's golfed < 1286319702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the monster movement code (the nested for loop in M) < 1286319704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crashes it somehow < 1286319709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the endwin means you never see the exception :D < 1286319716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something's wrong with it, anyway < 1286319724 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1286319729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck figuring out what all the variables do, i pretty much just pick a letter of the alphabet < 1286319735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : w[y,x]=46;x,y=a,b;w[y,x]=64 < 1286319736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1286319737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be < 1286319740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : w[y,x]=32;x,y=a,b;w[y,x]=64 < 1286319746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that doesn't fix it) < 1286319796 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "golfed"? < 1286319845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KeyError: (4, 46) < 1286319845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286319849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: "made to be as short as possible" < 1286319851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugliness be damned < 1286319857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after code golf, the sport < 1286319864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/ is the prime hub for that malarkey < 1286319900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh joy, it crashes no longer < 1286319902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the guys don't MOVE! < 1286319977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool i can walk into walls now, why. < 1286320002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: okay, remove that first for loop in M and write something that makes all the Qs on the visible board move closer to the guy. < 1286320004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is your task < 1286320017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Ilari> There are pairs of very good and very toxic mushrooms that look very near the same... < 1286320020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you may want to play it a few times to figure out what all the variables are) < 1286320025 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1286320035 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's great, my problem is that my pc is going nuts < 1286320043 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the gfx card is overheating < 1286320049 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see some buffer glitches < 1286320067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also depends on geography, i hear some asian immigrants to norway get poisoned because one of our poisonous mushrooms look like an edible east asian one < 1286320077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hear/read in the newspaper/ < 1286320079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: thankfully, vagrant runs even without much of a graphics card! < 1286320086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can it do text? Yes? YOU WIN!) < 1286320086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*looks < 1286320087 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: post the current code < 1286320091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: okay < 1286320115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: http://pastie.org/1201784.txt?key=gvzfssnyfqjigfcfm92luq < 1286320116 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so your game is about eating < 1286320120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly. < 1286320122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1286320149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: x,y is your position, X,Y is position of centre cell (infinite plane so we scroll), G is gold, N is # of turns, P is health that can be restored by potions, U is whether we're hallucinating or not < 1286320154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S is satiation, L is HP < 1286320156 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1286320160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w is the gamefield indexed by pairs of y and x < 1286320160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1286320174 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :square root of minus gamefield < 1286320189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: lawl < 1286320193 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w contains numbers < 1286320197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: charcodes < 1286320198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ascii < 1286320200 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know but < 1286320205 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do they reprazent? < 1286320209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally chanterelles are among the "safe" mushrooms in norway) < 1286320211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cells at that position < 1286320214 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 is me < 1286320217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286320220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is 64 in ascii < 1286320220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286320224 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1286320230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286320230 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, what do they represent in game? < 1286320234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% is food < 1286320235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! is potion < 1286320238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ is gold < 1286320247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is inexplicable cube of unbreakable glass that you can't walk through < 1286320250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q is a bad guy < 1286320257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ python < 1286320258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ord('x') < 1286320260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find the numbers < 1286320262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i do :P < 1286320264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :81 is Q, I know that < 1286320269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and space is just open space < 1286320306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: controls: vi keys to move, q to restore health from potions you've picked up (amount you can in parens after HP display), space waits < 1286320308 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know ord. < 1286320313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1286320316 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286320330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: and basically all the Qs have to do is move one step closer to the @ < 1286320343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it more fancy if you're that masochistic, but if you want to play with the monster code that's what i'd do < 1286320348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc they can only walk onto space < 1286320354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there's no memory of what's underneath a monster < 1286320358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they'd inexplicably suck up gold < 1286320360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe that's a feature) < 1286320395 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286320419 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe numbers > 1000 should be amount of gold + 1000. < 1286320422 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ monster. < 1286320439 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have a countable amount of monsters < 1286320450 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a parametrized type!!!!!! < 1286320456 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!111 < 1286320460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i lost you after "yes" < 1286320503 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w[x,y] == A > 1000 -> there is a monster at x,y with A-1000 gold. < 1286320544 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know if there is a polynomial time or approximately polynomial time algorithm for finding an embedding of a graph in a plane that minimizes the number of edge intersections? < 1286320576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: oh i see < 1286320579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking rather < 1286320584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill monsters before they suck up all the gold ;P < 1286320585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1286320603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: pretty sure the condition to go to the boss will just be having a certain amount of gold and getting to a booth < 1286320604 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gold can be level < 1286320609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting < 1286320618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: still, i think figuring out why the buggers won't move is a good first step < 1286320638 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sounds NP-complete-ish on first blush, but maybe not < 1286320708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: meanwhile I'll get rid of the M function, since we don't need it! hooray for obfuscation! < 1286320719 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it doesn't seem so obvious to me, but even if it is NP-complete in some parameters it may be polynomial in others. . . < 1286320745 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so this is what python looks like... < 1286320762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i think it's polynomial if the no. of edge intersections is bounded, no idea otherwise < 1286320776 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is w in relation to the center, or to the player? < 1286320799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it's global < 1286320804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because if there are < k intersections you can just try removing all k-edge sets in turn until you find one that makes the rest planar) < 1286320807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0,0) is the centre of everything, regardless of where you are, it's where you started < 1286320815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: if you go far enough you'll get to (3945783489579435,3459873459843759435) < 1286320822 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1286320857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but obviously this algorithm is exponential in k < 1286320877 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so, polynomial in number of vertices and numer of edge intersection? < 1286320877 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you point me to an algorithm? < 1286320882 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1286320890 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was about a 30 second lag in text entry < 1286320904 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, i typed all that before you gave me an alg < 1286320908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :D < 1286320954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm wait there's a subtlety here < 1286320977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding an edge it may have to intersect _several_ others < 1286321002 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but if you start at 1 and work your way up to k, you'll find that case first... < 1286321022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm right < 1286321032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1286321062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok if you have < k intersections you of course must have < k edges forcing them, so yeah < 1286321159 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which brings an interesting question: what's the maximum number of intersections an n node graph can contain? < 1286321181 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming that said graph is drawn in a minimal intersection way) < 1286321198 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, what's the fewest number of intersections the complete graph can contain < 1286321228 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(simple graphs only question) < 1286321261 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1286321282 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286321289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh wait there's another subtlety - removing an edge, then an arbitrary planar embedding of the rest may not be what gives minimal intersections when you add the edge back in < 1286321292 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, seems like it'll end up being O(n�) anyway < 1286321297 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286321297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be more serious < 1286321310 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1286321314 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1286321363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1286321368 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it may be that no planar embedding of the rest will yield a minimizer < 1286321388 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact one needs to find a planar embedding when two edges are removed or something < 1286321391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if it is NP-complete in some parameters it may be polynomial in others" < 1286321404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh right even that < 1286321406 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you mean? < 1286321465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: basically that the restricted problem of looking _just_ at < k edge intersecting graphs may be polynomial to decide for a fixed k even if it is exponential in k < 1286321472 0 :zeotrope!~vib@bas3-kitchener06-1128734150.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1286321490 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what oerjan said faster than i could < 1286321513 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can bound some parameter and what remains is polynomially solvable < 1286321516 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, parameter being # of intersecting edges. ok < 1286321570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: for example i recall that the problem of deciding whether one graph is isomorphic to a subgraph of another is NP-complete, but if the smaller graph is _fixed_ (or bounded in size) then it's a polynomial problem < 1286321595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the larger graph < 1286321599 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, obviously so < 1286321643 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you know there is a polynomial time algorithm for unifying graphs on the same number of nodes/edges < 1286321643 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: just so you know, you've been doing it in the wrong place. < 1286321660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: oh. goody. < 1286321665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: have you fixed it? :P < 1286321684 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the bedroom is the wrong place. next time try it in the library. < 1286321718 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so spaces are nothing? < 1286321721 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or zeros? < 1286321726 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(look out for Col. Mustard's lead pipe. you never know where he'll stick it.) < 1286321731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: both :P < 1286321735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1286321738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: um on a _fixed_ number of nodes/edges. unifying with the same but arbitrary is the graph isomorphism problem which is not known to be P (and is one of the most famous problems in NP to be neither known P or NP-complete) < 1286321738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: zeroes are uninitialised things < 1286321743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will get initialised when they scroll into view < 1286321748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no problem with assigning to them < 1286321751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaces are open space < 1286321761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a zero could be anything, you just don't know until you move so that it's in view < 1286321765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously we can't calculate infinite cells < 1286321774 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah yeah yeah, i know what i meant < 1286321806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, about convincing my dad: When I suggested that this was my normal weight, he said something along the lines of "Maybe. Some people are like that" or something to that effect < 1286321866 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular if the smaller fixed graph has k nodes, there is a trivial n^k*k! alg. for subgraph isomorphism < 1286321870 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant by obvious < 1286321931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1286321942 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, we still don't even know if there's a solution for the original problem with edge intersections bounded < 1286321948 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the tubes know < 1286322095 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i made them go to the center. :p < 1286322097 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay apparently this is a really really difficult question < 1286322138 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eat through walls :p < 1286322184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yeah you might want to check that it ==32 or ==0 < 1286322193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: also if you can do that, just s/0,0/x,y/ (or maybe y,x) < 1286322199 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1286322207 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yea < 1286322209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: or if you want it to eat items !=whatever '#' is :P < 1286322214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'd imagine graph drawing software would find such an algorithm useful if it existed < 1286322230 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1286322241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe that was how you thought of it?) < 1286322301 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is every $ worth the same? < 1286322316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no < 1286322324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if c==36:G+=randint(5,50) < 1286322340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly this is not determined until you hit it. totally quantum maan < 1286322347 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just gonna / for that < 1286322347 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of economy is that < 1286322353 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you were faster < 1286322359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286322360 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the quantum economy!!!!!! < 1286322407 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i thought of it in the context of the wire-crossing problem. what if the strong hypothesis turns out to be true for some definition of "state"? then, the next obvious question would be "what's the minimum number of crossings required?" < 1286322468 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so i immediately asked "well, how do we even check the number of crossings required for simple machines we already have state diagrams for?" < 1286322532 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought it must be a very hard problem, since there is a game about it (gPlanarity) < 1286322558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my intuition on the wire-crossing problem is sort of based on the fact that the 3-coloring problem is NP-complete even for planar graphs. < 1286322594 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you intuit that the strong hypothesis holds? < 1286322612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i think means you very easily can get full computational power without wire-crossing < 1286322619 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1286322639 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i agree < 1286322651 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a lot of reasons < 1286322659 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a interesting one too < 1286322697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I will give you $947595486749567945698456 in exchange for your code. < 1286322710 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT DONE YET < 1286322763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I hope you are omitting spaces! < 1286322771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: hint, that's zimbabwean dollars < 1286322783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And another set of hardsubs bites the dust. < 1286322802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headache vomit bleargh < 1286322816 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other reason i thought of it is exactly what you think: In fizzie's grasp language, programs are graphs, and they might be nonplanar. ais523 wants underlambda to be able to compile to any language, and so it would benefit from the ability to have output grasp programs have as few edge crossings as possible. < 1286322838 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so they are more human readable) < 1286322866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: found something maybe relevant < 1286322872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More generally, for any fixed constant k, it is possible to recognize in linear time the k-apex graphs, the graphs in which the removal of some carefully-chosen set of at most k vertices leads to a planar graph.[6] If k is variable, however, the problem is NP-complete." < 1286322880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex_graph < 1286322897 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'd take that much in ZWD, if it still existed. that's actually an appreciable amount of money despite hyperinflation. < 1286322926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but you'd better use it fast < 1286322974 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually bid on a 20trillion ZWD on ebay once < 1286322977 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't win tho < 1286322993 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear they aren't very high quality bills. just paper. < 1286323024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i imagine the second sentence strongly suggests that your problem is NP-complete for variable k too < 1286323031 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this apex graph thing implies that the general problem is probably NP-complete, but it still doesn't answer the fixed k question < 1286323033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er last < 1286323041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates hardcoded subs. < 1286323047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99 < 1286323057 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286323063 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am coding ai < 1286323064 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shh < 1286323065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :koed :| < 1286323069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha wat < 1286323075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you gimme your code before-ai too just in case it develops sentience < 1286323076 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTALLY < 1286323081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want sentience < 1286323083 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will be swooped < 1286323086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: also there are no attacks yet... < 1286323086 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is sentient already < 1286323111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but is it _sapient_ < 1286323118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :important distinction < 1286323132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1286323140 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it is even sentient < 1286323153 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but: is sapience possible without sentience? < 1286323165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's all good and well with an AI complaining of pain in its diodes, but that's not the same as intelligence < 1286323173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: restate that without using the words sapience and sentience