00:00:16 <quintopia> is wisdom/intelligence impossible without the capacity to process sensation/input?
00:00:41 <oerjan> i find that a bit weak definition of sentient
00:00:48 <oerjan> _any_ computer would qualify
00:00:52 <alise> quintopia: that's a rubbish replacement, but: yes, it is impossible
00:00:53 <quintopia> i chose a weak definition on purpose
00:01:10 <oerjan> (well any non-broken one)
00:01:37 <oerjan> hm this reminds me of _another_ H2G2 quote
00:02:05 <quintopia> it highlights the distinction well: alise says it's impossible for something to be sapient without doing something so simple every computer already qualifies as being able to do ti
00:04:06 <quintopia> indeed, i like to believe 1) computers _are_ sentient and 2) sentience is not necessarily a prerequisite for sapience, just as I/O is not a prerequisite for TCness
00:04:53 <alise> cheater99: yes. can i have the code as it is now? i have to go
00:05:02 <alise> quintopia: computers are not sentient.
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00:05:15 <quintopia> alise: be patient. he can always give you the code tomorrow.
00:05:33 <alise> quintopia: i did not ask you
00:05:40 <alise> i want to look at it before i go
00:07:10 <oerjan> "And to this end they built themselves a stupendous super computer which was so amazingly intelligent that even before the data banks had been connected up it had started from I think therefore I am and got as far as the existence of rice pudding and income tax before anyone managed to turn it off."
00:07:13 <quintopia> sentience is a very poorly defined thing out there in the real world, so I chose a meaning for it that at least has some measure of testableness to it
00:07:42 <oerjan> (that was damn hard to find exactly)
00:07:59 <quintopia> that is an impressive computer inded
00:08:43 <cheater99> http://pastie.org/1201911.txt?key=2qq4jgnuxzulqebaa8la
00:09:18 <alise> cheater99: dude, you have all these unnecessary spaces! :|
00:09:54 <cheater99> "gee, that guy is writing well-formatted code."
00:10:05 <cheater99> then you look at this. ((B-11+o(1,11-B))*(1-2*(r(0,10)/10))),(A-40+o(1,40-A)*(1-2*(r(0,10)/10)))
00:10:16 <cheater99> which is the whole of the monster AI
00:10:32 <cpressey> oerjan: you know how they made it so smart? ... pair programming
00:10:44 <alise> cheater99: what the hell does it do?
00:10:58 <quintopia> cpressey: no they used the FULL POWER OF XP!
00:11:28 <alise> why do you not write to w directly?
00:11:54 <cheater99> well, hasn't mom told you not to clobber data structures you're looping over?
00:12:23 <alise> you're not looping over it with a for loop
00:12:45 <cheater99> unless you like your monsters to attain the speed of light
00:12:56 <cheater99> when they're above you in the screen.
00:13:06 <alise> i will have to shorten it you understand >:)
00:13:11 <quintopia> alise: you should follow his lead and replace all your randints with r
00:14:13 <alise> cheater99: THERE IS NO CHARACTER 9000
00:14:31 <cheater99> but there will be characters OVER 9000.
00:15:06 <quintopia> 19:12 < cheater99> when they're above you in the screen.
00:15:25 <alise> oerjan: it's in code
00:15:37 <alise> since when are there Gs
00:16:14 <alise> you realise that still none of this tries to go near the player :D
00:16:15 <alise> which was the idea
00:16:25 <cheater99> well you have to stop running away
00:16:34 <cheater99> otherwise of course they'll be confused
00:17:04 <quintopia> cheater99: i think he wants monsters that behave exactly like DROD roaches
00:17:33 <oerjan> any relation to drop bears...
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00:17:45 <cheater99> there's a nice exception being generated somewhere
00:18:08 <cheater99> and btw, something's still a bit fucked :D
00:18:37 <cheater99> alise: what's needed is a log window
00:20:27 <cpressey> it's big, it's heavy, it's wood
00:20:32 <quintopia> what rolls down stairs/ alone or in pairs/ rolls over your neighbors dog?
00:20:52 <cheater99> ((B-11+o(1,11-B))*(1-2*(r(0,10)/10))),(A-40+o(1,40-A)*(1-2*(r(0,10)/10)))
00:23:04 <alise> what is the ai logic?
00:24:06 <quintopia> if i'm reading that right, it just moves closer by a random amount random speed probability thing
00:24:13 <oerjan> hyperparainconsistent antiintuitive metapredicate illogic
00:24:26 <cheater99> there is no ai logic other than what i have posted
00:25:43 <oerjan> cpressey: YES and i agree
00:25:47 <alise> cheater99: yes but i'm tired
00:25:50 <alise> and have a headache
00:25:54 <alise> and one of my keys broke
00:25:59 <alise> and i forgot what the functions are
00:26:09 <cheater99> instead of having it given to you today
00:26:19 <quintopia> alise: start by expanding r to randint and o to copysign
00:27:12 <oerjan> its curry-howard isomorphism can only be expressed in extended Malbolge
00:29:08 <quintopia> cheater99: i'm not actually trying this game, but the player is always at the center, right?
00:29:09 <alise> cheater99: i approve not of your fork ;)
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00:31:16 <quintopia> i guess i don't know what X and Y are supposed to be
00:31:56 <quintopia> is that the current location on the map of the screen top left?
00:33:17 <quintopia> looks right. so then you're looping over the visible screen, and when you find...
00:42:40 <quintopia> and moves it randomly to the left or right, up or down each with probability 1/4 iirtc
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00:50:08 <cheater99> http://pastie.org/private/gaqwdbng4srklx1adb2o6g
00:51:39 <quintopia> been factored in, i can only assume they give chase now :D
00:52:13 <quintopia> s/been/seeing as have x and y have been/
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02:05:42 <oerjan> > do Just test <- Right Nothing; return "hm"
02:05:42 <lambdabot> Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints:
02:06:08 <oerjan> > do Just test <- Right Nothing; return "hm" :: Either String String
02:06:09 <lambdabot> Left "Pattern match failure in do expression at <interactive>:1:136-139"
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02:30:13 <pikhq> *sigh* We're really getting down to needing desperate measures to force IPv6 transitioning.
02:31:24 <pikhq> Something like a major IXP threatening to drop people who don't dual-stack.
02:31:43 <pikhq> Internet Exchange Point.
02:31:45 <Sgeo> Oh, Internet eXchange Point?
02:31:50 <oerjan> Internet Extermination Protocol
02:32:15 <pikhq> Y'know, where there's tons of peering.
02:32:35 <oerjan> yeah that's probably where the CIA peers over our shoulders
02:35:27 <Gregor> *ipv4 rapebot rolls in*
02:35:41 <Gregor> <IPV4 Rapebot> VZZZZT DOES YOUR NETWORK SUPPORT IPV6?
02:36:07 <Gregor> <Random sysadmin> Uhh, no, not yet, we're planning on adding support once there's customer demand for it, b--
02:36:47 <Gregor> <IPV4 Rapebot> UNACCEPTABLE RESPONSE. ASSUME PROSTRATE POSITION. BEGINNING INSERTION PROCEDURE.
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02:38:35 <pikhq> oerjan: The NSA actually does have black rooms in US IXPs. (citation: Hepting v. AT&T)
02:39:02 <oerjan> pikhq: hey puns can be based on facts too
02:39:11 <Ilari> Heh... IPv6 is bit lacking. There's no way to properly configure the last mile...
02:39:32 <pikhq> Ilari: Whaddya mean?
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02:40:27 <Ilari> pikhq: DHCPv6: Support is poor. RA: Can't configure DNS (at least in most cases).
02:40:46 <Ilari> And no, don't say RDNSS, I know about that.
02:41:04 <pikhq> Clearly we should also have the IPV4 Rapebot go to work on router manufacturers.
02:41:50 <Ilari> More like OS manufacturers...
02:42:02 <pikhq> Which OSes don't support it?
02:42:46 <Gregor> IPV4 Rapebot has many skills.
02:42:48 <pikhq> Aside from XP, which is *more deprecated than Windows 3.1 was when it came out*.
02:42:55 <Gregor> It can rape anyone in need of rape.
02:43:32 <Gregor> pikhq: In spite of the fact that everyone uses it :P
02:43:54 <pikhq> Gregor: Yes, but Microsoft is about to pull the plug on security updates, and that's *all the support it is getting*.
02:43:56 * Ilari grabs some OS updates over IPv6...
02:44:52 <pikhq> That said, if it's that big of an issue, IPV4 Rapebot can go to work on Microsoft.
02:44:59 <pikhq> Surely they can add one more feature.
02:46:09 <oerjan> there is the danger though that microsoft might reverse engineer Rapebot for their own purposes
02:46:21 <pikhq> oerjan: They call it Clippy.
02:46:35 <Ilari> Today's IANA depletion date estimates: 2011-04-20 and 2011-06-01.
02:47:30 <pikhq> Based on current uptake rates, we will be on IPv6 at about 3000.
02:50:24 <Ilari> Soon the IPv6 migration plan in most places will look like this: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/12/our-disaster-recovery-plan.png
02:53:10 <pikhq> Why the hell aren't ISPs dual-stack *right now*?
02:55:39 <pikhq> Oh, would you look at that. NTT in Japan (*the* phone company) has offered end-user IPv6 for 10 years now.
02:56:28 <pikhq> Clearly you can only move forward with IPv6 if you're willing to offer gigabit to the home.
03:01:56 <Sgeo> Does the customer have to know about it?
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03:54:09 <pikhq> Welp, trying to get Teredo running and failing somehow.
04:00:53 <pikhq> Somehow, my NAT is untraversible.
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04:02:09 <Ilari> Somehow "Teredo" sounds better than "Shipworm".
04:02:36 * pikhq shall be waiting on Sixxs, then.
04:02:51 <pikhq> And I can't use Hurricane Electric because the router here *denies pings*.
04:04:51 <Ilari> NAT on what device?
04:05:23 <Ilari> And presumably no way to portforward protocol 41...
04:05:23 <pikhq> He's perversely paranoid about security.
04:05:45 <pikhq> Though ironically it supports UPnP hole punching.
04:06:00 <pikhq> Proof that a computer science degree does not net you common sense.
04:08:31 <Ilari> The computer that protocol 41 was forwarded to could then route the data for the rest...
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04:10:21 <pikhq> UPnP hole punching does TCP ports only.
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04:11:46 <pikhq> Quite convenient for BitTorrent, but not much else.
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04:15:05 <Ilari> pikhq: Teredo not working is probably means one or both of two things: 1) NAT is symmetric or 2) There's extensive port blocking.
04:18:42 <pikhq> Ilari: I *doubt* it's symmetric NAT, so I'm going with UDP port blocking.
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04:27:21 <pikhq> So definitely waiting on Sixxs.
04:45:35 <pikhq> States now charging for use of public defenders.
04:47:37 <Ilari> Heh... Spammer fined $1,068,928,721.46
05:00:50 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: "Fuck the Supreme Court"
05:01:46 <pikhq> Basically: by doing so, and nobody appeals it.
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08:40:02 <augur> egg foo young is so delicious omg
08:47:14 <augur> its basically a chinese-style omelette
08:47:43 <augur> cheater99: in theory, nothing
08:47:48 <augur> in practice, EVERYTHING
08:48:39 <augur> i dont know exactly how to explain it
08:48:50 <cheater99> This dish is prepared with beaten eggs and minced ham. From these dishes, Chinese chefs in the United States, at least as early as the 1930s, created a pancake filled with eggs, vegetables, and meat or seafood.
08:49:26 <augur> that just describes an omelette :|
08:50:04 <augur> it says "pancake" but egg foo young doesnt have any bread
08:50:10 <augur> so who knows what that writer was thinking
08:53:07 <cheater99> pancakes usually don't have any bread in them.
08:53:36 <augur> well, they're a bread-like food
08:53:51 <augur> or batter-y, in this case
08:54:00 <augur> but egg foo young doesnt have batter
08:57:20 <augur> well, i just ate some!
08:57:27 <augur> batterologist, in fact
08:58:13 <augur> interestingly, theres a fine line between batter and scrambled egg
08:59:39 <augur> well, batter is flour, with some other stuff, potentially egg, and often a liquid like milk
08:59:50 <augur> you can easily imagine adding some milk to egg for flavoring or consistency
08:59:54 <augur> or some flour similarly
09:00:00 <augur> but in small quantities
09:00:09 <augur> and still its a kind of fried egg, right
09:00:24 <augur> so when does it stop being fried egg
09:00:30 <augur> i like my pancakes very eggy
09:00:52 <augur> if i used slightly more egg, it would almost be hard to call pancakes
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09:01:13 <augur> when does it cross from egg stuff to batter stuff
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11:38:43 <quintopia> i want to believe the reason xkcd has been sucking more than usual lately is that he's been spending most of his time working on this map...but given how much free time he must have, I'm not holding my breath.
11:44:38 <Slereah> Or does he just get internet money
12:14:08 <quintopia> this map is the sort of thing that would go great on a pictoblog!
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12:27:24 <Vorpal> <alise> Vorpal: hi <-- yes?
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15:41:58 <alise> oh bloody hell, my g key is still broken
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15:56:27 <alise> i disapprove of the modernisation >_>
15:59:08 <pikhq> I DISAPPROVE OF MUTABILITY
16:00:44 * Phantom_Hoover has discovered that finite naturals in Coq are trickier than they first appear.
16:01:58 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: finite naturals?
16:02:03 <alise> you mean |Fin n| = n?
16:02:44 <alise> Inductive fin : nat -> Set := fz : forall n, fin n | fs : fin n -> fin (S n)
16:02:52 <alise> you can also define a function fin : nat -> Set
16:02:55 <alise> this is sometimes more useful
16:03:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, for that definition |fin n| = S n, but whatever.
16:04:10 -!- augur has joined.
16:07:41 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: erm, is it?
16:07:47 <alise> fin 0 = {fz : fin 0}
16:07:55 <alise> fin 1 = {fz : fin 1, fs fz : fin 1}
16:08:07 <alise> Inductive fin : nat -> Set := fz : forall n, fin (S n) | fs : fin n -> fin (S n)
16:08:10 <alise> that's how it's done, I forgot
16:08:27 <alise> cheater: how goes the AI :P
16:11:39 <cpressey> alise: last i saw it, it was http://pastie.org/private/gaqwdbng4srklx1adb2o6g
16:12:11 <alise> cpressey: huh, did clog go out?
16:12:13 <alise> that's no in the logs
16:12:36 <alise> i disapprove of his silly fork ;)
16:13:08 <alise> although r = randint is cool
16:13:12 <alise> Q('Yum! That was delicious.');L+=int(not r(0,2)and r(5,10))
16:13:19 <alise> s.addch(B-Y,A-X,choice(T)if U and not r(0,2)else w[v])
16:13:33 <cpressey> python is such an ick language for golf
16:13:49 <alise> cpressey: that's why you do evil things!
16:14:02 <alise> s.addstr(22,0,'_'*80);C('$:%-17s T:%-17s S:%-17s HP:%-3s (%s)'%(G,N,S,L,P));s.move(y-Y+11,x-X+40)
16:14:10 <alise> T=[32]*1000+[36,81]*5+[37]*3+[35]*50+[33]
16:14:16 <cpressey> alise: your code is almost READABLE
16:14:16 <alise> elif k=='q'and L and L+20<301:
16:14:16 <alise> q=min(L,20);L+=q;P=max(P-q,0);D()
16:14:31 <alise> cpressey: okay then, tell me what this does
16:14:33 <alise> s.addch(B-Y,A-X,choice(T)if U and not r(0,2)else w[v])
16:14:59 <alise> cpressey: I must have told you >__>
16:15:23 <alise> "not r(0,n-1)" for a 1 in n chance is awesome, though
16:15:29 <alise> in fact, i might define a function for that
16:16:04 <alise> u=lambda n:not r(0,n)
16:16:10 <alise> u(n) is 1 in (n+1) chance
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16:30:21 <alise> ha, my monsters move even when it isn't their turn.
16:36:02 <cpressey> Does lambdabot keep messages for us, too?
16:36:50 <cpressey> I suppose we could save them as text files in HackEgo, but, notification.
16:37:52 <alise> ehird@dinky:~/Code/vagrant$ wc -c vagrant.py
16:37:57 <alise> amazing how much you can do in so little code, isn't it?
16:38:42 <alise> cpressey: does hallu normally allow you to hallucinate yourself as being floor in roguelikes?
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16:39:43 <alise> What, by executing mine? :P
16:40:19 <Phantom_Hoover> A full-featured roguelike in precisely 7 bytes of shell script!
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16:43:24 <Ilari> This tells something about IPv6 deployment status: http://www.mrp.net/IPv6_Survey.html (someone's comment "Un.. fucking.. believable."). Short summary: MAJOR FAIL.
16:44:35 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: I get errors when linking to it
16:44:56 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, well, you do with that kind of narrow-minded thinking.
16:45:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Who says library interfaces have to be through linking?
16:45:26 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: I ALSO CANNOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO BORROW BOOKS FROM IT
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16:50:01 <alise> a+=(k in'lun')-(k in'hyb');b+=(k in'jbn')-(k in'kyu')
16:50:07 <alise> BEHOLD THE CRAZY BOOLEAN ARITHMETIC
16:50:39 <alise> Believe it or not, that actually works.
16:50:41 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Hum?
16:50:49 <alise> I don't have any explicit booleans there.
16:50:52 <alise> Not even in the old version/
16:51:05 <alise> In this case a and b are the new x and y we're moving to, and k is the key.
16:51:15 <alise> Also, 0 would work instead of False.
16:51:24 <alise> This implements hjkl cardinals, and yubn diagonals.
16:51:30 <alise> In two arithmetic statements! Fuck yeah!
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16:59:49 <alise> HOLY SHIT THE QS BREED
17:00:24 <fizzie> cpressey: Maybe I should add message-passing to fungot, then.
17:00:24 <fungot> fizzie: the shit-talking between rounds has to stop. i can't come home and kill a spider. why don't you let us in the sega booth soon. does it have any kryptonite?
17:01:04 <fizzie> fungot: The Sega booth is full of kryptonite, in fact. Stop quoting entire sentences verbatim, you silly bot.
17:01:04 <fungot> fizzie: i didn't know where else to go.
17:03:37 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa* speeches ss wp youtube
17:03:45 <alise> aww, quoting it will just be quoting verbatim then :)
17:08:26 <fizzie> I'll try to retrain that model at some point.
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17:19:37 <Ilari> If that page is descriptive of IPv6, the IPv6 deployment plan in many organizations is probably looking like the disaster recovery plan at Dilbert's work...
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17:21:33 <cheater> have you seen my new version
17:21:41 <alise> cheater: i saw the one cpressey linked
17:22:02 <alise> and yours is broken btw, monsters move even when it's not a turn
17:23:08 <cheater> yeah duh, why are you doing M() if bashing into a wall?
17:23:19 <cheater> you should have a return at the very top for that
17:23:23 <alise> because M() handles it
17:23:25 <alise> there's no M() any more, also
17:23:28 <alise> you're working on an older version
17:23:43 <cheater> it's a nice piece of code i added
17:23:54 <cheater> the monsters can even walk around obstacles!
17:23:59 <alise> but i've almost written my own >_>
17:24:11 <alise> (yours was part of an older version)
17:24:15 <alise> cheater: yeah well i stole some of your code
17:25:14 <alise> the actual logic i couldn't understand so i couldn't make it run to me :)
17:25:17 <alise> so i didn't need o
17:25:26 <cheater> how could you not understand it?
17:26:13 <cheater> it takes the position of the cell and the position of the player, calculates the vector between them, and then unitarizes that vector
17:26:19 <alise> cheater: well rather i didn't bother to
17:26:35 <cheater> then, it randomly flips some of the coordinates at a small probability
17:26:47 <alise> cheater: last i saw, it actually moves to (0,0)
17:26:55 <cheater> you hadn't looked at the new one
17:27:06 <cheater> also i made the line mirror-symmetric (kinda..)
17:27:42 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: That code is a real at's nest.
17:28:10 <cheater> i'm not sure why malbolge is in the topic
17:28:15 <alise> cheater: the new one had some gold monster stuff which i wasn't sure i approved of >_>
17:28:24 <cheater> alise: of course you approve of it
17:28:29 <cheater> alise: think about it, monsters lvling up
17:28:43 <cheater> alise: this means you have to kill monsters quickly otherwise they'll level up too far
17:28:52 <alise> maybe in Super Lotsa Added Stuff Vagrant
17:29:30 <cheater> you could have made that switchable instead
17:29:39 <alise> it's golfed code!!
17:29:51 <cheater> and if it gets parametrized it's nicer
17:32:09 <alise> cheater: you don't understand what golfing is :P
17:32:54 <alise> cheater: i probably will add them
17:33:08 <cheater> but it won't be my code then
17:34:27 <alise> your code has spacse
17:34:38 <alise> my code has breeding Qs
17:34:44 <alise> r,i,t,u=map(w.get,[(f,e),(d,e),(f,c),(d,c)])
17:34:44 <alise> if r==32:q[f,e]=81
17:34:44 <alise> if i==32:q[d,e]=81
17:34:44 <alise> if t==32:q[f,c]=81
17:35:05 <cheater> my code doesn't have spaces in the new version
17:35:17 <cheater> it was just proof of concept OK????????????////////////
17:35:24 <alise> i'll consider it >_________________________>
17:38:05 <alise> wow now the monsters run away from me
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17:46:48 <quintopia> you should parameterize monster motion too. some come towards you, some run away, and some wander aimlessly
17:47:05 <cheater> you obviously hadn't seen the data structure
17:47:28 <quintopia> what would take more code but be cooler is if they came toward you only if you've been sitting still too long, like a cat sneaking up on you.
17:47:47 <quintopia> but if you go towards them, they run away
17:48:43 <quintopia> especially if they have camoflauge! and only appear when they move!
17:50:28 <alise> there are no rooms
17:50:32 <alise> well, apart from emergent ones.
17:51:41 <quintopia> they strive to stay close to one another, and only move if they can get closer to the player without breaking formation, or if they aren't in formation yet.
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18:16:09 <oerjan> <cpressey> Does lambdabot keep messages for us, too?
18:16:21 <lambdabot> tell <nick> <message>. When <nick> shows activity, tell them <message>.
18:17:27 <oerjan> @tell cpressey Sure it does!
18:18:20 <oerjan> there is also MemoServ
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18:44:39 <olsner> omg, we have a lambdabot now?
18:45:22 <oerjan> cpressey: erm why didn't it tell you :(
18:46:15 <olsner> > fix$(<$>)<$>(:)<*>((<$>((:[{- thor's mother -}])<$>))(=<<)<$>(*)<$>(*2))$1
18:46:16 <lambdabot> [1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,131072,...
18:46:18 <oerjan> cpressey: try saying something without lambdabot: in front
18:46:27 <lambdabot> cpressey: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18:46:40 <lambdabot> oerjan said 29m 13s ago: Sure it does!
18:47:57 <olsner> oerjan: I wrote that :D
18:48:48 <olsner> not the thor's mother comment though, I think it started out with just (:[]) in the middle... a few people've edited the wiki page afterwards
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18:51:32 <olsner> aha, the first version on that wiki page says {- OH MY GOD IT'S A COMMENT!!! -} instead, that'd be from me then
18:53:34 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `:'
18:54:34 <olsner> the > is only for evaluating expressions
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18:55:33 <olsner> but you can probably enter ill-typed expressions and use the error message to see the type if you want to :D
18:55:57 <oerjan> you can do that to get fixities
18:56:04 <lambdabot> The operator `GHC.Num.+' [infixl 6] of a section
18:56:18 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Bool.Bool)
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18:57:05 <cpressey> I suppose 2<3 would have been a nicer fake typo
19:01:07 <Gregor> AMERICAN KEYBOARD OF JESUS
19:01:19 <olsner> is it the *keyboard* or the *layout* that's american?
19:01:38 <cpressey> good point. the keyboard itself is probably chinese.
19:01:49 <olsner> many Model M's are made in ireland iirc
19:02:04 <cpressey> i say this only on the basis of odds.
19:03:18 <Gregor> But everything in America is made in China.
19:03:32 <cpressey> Gregor: that's why i liked those odds.
19:03:32 <Gregor> So that's as American as it can be.
19:05:06 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `IO'
19:05:06 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Int'
19:08:33 <olsner> so... whence the lambdabot?
19:08:51 <olsner> I don't think I've seen her in here before
19:10:14 <olsner> "From whence has a strong literary precedent, appearing in Shakespeare and the King James Bible as well as in the writings of numerous Victorian-era writers. In recent times, however, it has been criticized as redundant by usage commentators."
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19:11:21 <Gregor> From whence do thy usage commentators come, olsner?
19:11:23 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character '='
19:11:29 <lambdabot> forall a (m :: * -> *) b c. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c
19:11:38 <olsner> Gregor: *whence, the from is redundant :P
19:11:55 <quintopia> olsner is clearly the usage commentator
19:11:59 <Gregor> olsner: Your face is redundant, but you don't see me complaining.
19:12:16 <cpressey> wait, "* -> *"? that's a new one on me
19:12:44 <Gregor> "This function does some shit"
19:13:22 <olsner> very simplified, '*' is any normal type
19:13:35 <olsner> there's also #, ## and ?
19:14:03 <cpressey> so * -> * is the kind of all one-argument functions?
19:14:15 <olsner> one-argument type constructors
19:15:10 <cpressey> i was going to say constructors, but it's the type constructor that has a kind, yeah
19:16:22 <olsner> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/IntermediateTypes has a neat little ascii diagram of the kinds
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19:18:44 <olsner> constructors also have kinds, but I think they'd all just be *
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19:45:37 <SgeoN1> Hello. Showing off #esoteric again
19:45:55 <fizzie> SgeoN1: Oh no, must we be amusing now?
19:46:15 <cpressey> I didn't even see SgeoN1 when I typed that. Don't interpret it as an attempt to be amusing.
19:46:45 <fizzie> fungot: Quick, say something amusing!
19:46:45 <fungot> fizzie: fnord/ fnord/ fnord/ fnord.
19:47:11 <olsner> SgeoN1: see - utterly boring.
19:48:02 <fizzie> fungot: You're such a disappointment sometimes.
19:48:03 <fungot> fizzie: i can do with a bagpipe?) for fnord macros and expansion.)
19:54:26 <SgeoN1> No longer showing off #esoteric
19:55:03 <fizzie> SgeoN1: You should warn us in advance that we'd clean the channel up a bit, be more presentable.
19:56:57 <yorick> cheater99: that doesn't even have a verb!
19:57:32 <yorick> I think that would need at least two verbs
19:57:56 <olsner> maybe latin doesn't need all the redundant verbs
19:59:07 <yorick> olsner: but there's nothing redundant anything
19:59:25 <yorick> "cogito ergo dei" <-- it lacks a second verb and puts a noun instead :/
20:00:02 <olsner> well, then it's just missing a copula, right? do you *really* need to put that down every time?
20:03:47 <fizzie> How would *that* help?
20:04:00 <olsner> how *would* that help?
20:05:06 <fizzie> How would that *help*?
20:05:14 <yorick> *How* would that help?
20:05:27 <olsner> *how* would *that* help?
20:05:35 <yorick> how *would* that *help*
20:06:16 <yorick> cheater99: true, but how would *that* help? :)
20:07:11 <olsner> well, let's just say that obviously *someone* is in need of a latin grammar lesson
20:07:31 <yorick> and it *might* just be me :/
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20:15:55 * olsner watches the waves as they propagate around his abdomen
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20:36:33 <olsner> speaking of edible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edible_dormouse
20:37:42 <olsner> but it was probably a long time ago you were discussing that
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20:41:37 <olsner> ... and why does Moq COCK you?
20:41:50 <olsner> that makes no sense though
20:44:45 <Phantom_Hoover> I just want to rewrite an expression, and it refuses to do so for no obvious reason.
20:51:25 <yorick> aww poor edible dormice
20:51:37 <yorick> named after their edibility
20:52:10 <olsner> much unlike the great tortoises that were so edible no-one bothered to give them a proper name
20:52:22 <olsner> for a couple of hundred years anyway
21:01:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Stephen Wolfram's ego vs. that of the Apprentice candidates.
21:01:40 <olsner> this is probably like comparing infinities
21:02:04 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, a TV Burp fight is the standard mechanism of comparing infinities.
21:02:11 <olsner> the question is, which infinity has the largest cardinality
21:02:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, I like |N|, and I like |R|. But which is bigger? There's only one way to find out! FIGHT!
21:05:57 <olsner> hmm, how was it this infinity thing worked again? R can burp at least |N| for every |N|, and thus it's bigger?
21:06:46 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: I have the solution for your Coq problem.
21:07:28 <olsner> cpressey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WxJECOFg8w
21:07:41 <alise> olsner: p, sure he knows
21:13:35 <cheater99> how the fuck do you use the triplet mode on a tb 303
21:14:41 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, anyway, my problem is basically that I can't right-rewrite then left-rewrite.
21:15:00 <alise> cpressey doesn't know Coq
21:17:46 <alise> cheater99: i am just fine thank you
21:18:14 <alise> can i just say that vagrant's code is awesome
21:18:16 <cheater99> i can't figure out how to program this thing
21:18:27 <cheater99> it's like the fucking intercal manual
21:19:04 * cheater99 gives alise a hug for lightening up his day.
21:20:10 <alise> for this thing cheater99 is using
21:20:37 <alise> can you set a global exception handler in python?
21:24:40 <cheater99> alise: just put everything in a try/catch.
21:25:01 <alise> cheater99: no, that'd fuck up the indentation
21:25:13 <alise> def hook(t,v,b):endwin();sys.__excepthook__(t,v,b)
21:25:14 <alise> sys.excepthook=hook
21:25:14 <alise> execfile('vagrant.py')
21:25:15 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: a drum machine, I gather?
21:25:30 <alise> and yes, it is evil to use endwin like that without importing it myself but I DON'T CARE
21:25:58 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: No, Coq is a theorem prover.
21:26:31 <cpressey> Confusing drum machines and theorem provers. Just another wonderful service provided by your local #esoteric.
21:27:28 <Phantom_Hoover> cheater99, drum machine as in machine which makes drum noises?
21:27:52 <alise> HEY cheater99 DEBUG MY AI CODE :P
21:28:09 <cpressey> I thought it was called a TR-303... maybe this is another model
21:29:08 <yorick> new SGU is notably better than previous ep
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21:32:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, god, Randall Munroe hasn't rehashed Online Communities, has he?
21:33:05 <olsner> lunch conversation indicates he has
21:34:44 <yorick> Phantom_Hoover: he has
21:36:08 <alise> cheater: bah, Q with p=0 doesn't work :(
21:37:26 <cheater99> cpressey: it's actually a bass synthesizer.
21:37:58 <alise> p is second parameter (wait for response or not)
21:38:03 <alise> Q(foo), if done before D(), just gets wiped out
21:38:07 <alise> by the status line
21:38:11 <alise> whereas, as it's a message function
21:38:16 <alise> i'm trying to fix it right now
21:38:38 <cheater99> the great thing about this thing is
21:38:47 <cheater99> it's light and small and battery operated
21:38:56 <cheater99> which means you can take it with you to the toilet
21:39:00 <alise> cheater99: does your Q work??
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21:39:21 <cheater99> i abandoned the project after a frosty rejection from the core team
21:39:22 <alise> hmm mine is *seriously* fucked up
21:39:36 <alise> cheater99: i was just joking y'know.
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21:39:59 <alise> HOW THE FUCK DID THEY OBLITERATE EACH OTHER
21:40:24 <alise> they wipe everyone out indiscriminately
21:41:01 <cheater99> alise: you need the masking array, otherwise you're fuck'd
21:42:11 <alise> cheater99: i have a masking array.
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21:42:36 <alise> i have managed to break even normal Q awesome.
21:42:55 <olsner> dood applies regardless
21:43:30 <alise> HOW ARE THEY ALL FLOCKING TO THE CENTRE I SPECIFIED ME AS THE TARGET
21:43:38 <yorick> cheater99: no one in this channel is a girl
21:43:57 <alise> yorick: did, about four times IIRC
21:44:01 <alise> (I worked it out once)
21:44:50 <alise> oh so that's what i did
21:44:51 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: yes
21:47:22 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: lifetime
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21:47:59 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: counting all the females I know to have been in here
21:48:43 <Vorpal> alise, wtf at rerunning the map thing. It was quite nice first time, and redoing it could work, just not as a comic, maybe something to post on his blog or such
21:48:56 <alise> it's not a comic, it's a picto-blo
21:49:13 <Vorpal> alise, but I like the lifeboats marked in that picture
21:49:19 <Vorpal> leaving digg and going for reddit
21:49:59 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:51:56 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, a bit above IRC Isles
21:52:03 * alise realises that "not r(0,2)" is longer than "r(0,2)==0", cries
21:52:15 <alise> Q('Yum! That was delicious.');L+=int(0==r(0,2)and r(5,10))
21:52:18 <alise> Guess why the 0 comes first.
21:52:39 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: yep :D so I can have the )
21:52:42 <alise> so i can avoid a space
21:55:02 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, if you can't find irc isles, it is next to usenet.
21:55:38 <Sgeo> It looks a bit big, tbh
21:55:54 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, where is second life?
21:55:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Usenet is slightly smaller than IRC on that map, but I've already found it.
21:56:49 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, did you spot the invasion fleet btw?
21:56:54 <Vorpal> (not the same as the lifeboats)
21:57:32 <cpressey> alise: females in here intentionally, or including those who wander in here for other reasons?
21:57:55 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh and is "subspace" just a star trek reference, or some game? It is next to MMO Isle, opposite to second life
21:58:39 <cpressey> alise: Oh and golf your user messages. Q('Mm!') should suffice.
21:58:58 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, next to google talk
21:59:08 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, which is close to skype
21:59:40 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I don't know
22:00:37 <alise> cpressey: intentionally
22:00:41 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what is "kayne's isle of sadness", in whaler sound next to google talk
22:00:44 <alise> Also, no golfing messages :P
22:00:50 <alise> Playable roguelike, tiny code.
22:00:55 * alise is typing from his replacement keyboard...
22:00:57 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, mumorpeger eh? *googles wtf that is*
22:00:58 <alise> Quite nice for a Logitech.
22:01:03 <alise> "Slim" but not hopelessly so, and a nice tactile action.
22:01:03 <cheater99> alise: have you ever done anything with uC's?
22:01:09 <alise> cheater99: expand uC
22:01:13 <Vorpal> Urban Dictionary: mumorpeger
22:01:13 <Vorpal> A different way to say MMORPG. (Massively multiplayer online role-playing game)
22:01:40 <alise> cheater99: no, but sounds fun
22:02:03 <cheater99> that can modify themselves on the fly
22:02:08 <cheater99> and it's an important part of the process
22:02:08 <Vorpal> cheater99, what does uC stand for? I mean it doesn't really expand to microcontroller
22:02:16 <Vorpal> cheater99, µC would make some sort of sense
22:02:22 <cpressey> cheater99: for certain values of "fly"
22:02:23 <alise> The quick brown fox jumpwedover my bix sphynx of qwertz.
22:02:49 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, easy: altgr-m
22:03:10 <cpressey> Vorpal: that just makes Outlook pop up!
22:03:12 <Vorpal> I believe that will work on US international too
22:04:02 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, why is altgr stupid?
22:04:07 <Vorpal> it is just ISO level 3 shift
22:04:28 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, okay, why is it illogical?
22:04:47 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, they key bindings on it? To some extent yes.
22:05:06 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, ð makes sense for icelandic iirc?
22:05:19 <Vorpal> and the þ one *looks* similar
22:05:40 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, and µ is pronounced "mu" starting with m
22:05:55 <Vorpal> cpressey, well, I don't know for windows, do tell me if you find how to type µ there
22:05:56 <cpressey> Huh, I can't Alt+252 to get those gnarly chars
22:06:02 <cpressey> what kind of PowerShell is that
22:06:13 <Vorpal> cpressey, "power(less)shell" :P
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22:08:34 * pikhq can has 2001:1938:81:169::2 !
22:09:42 -!- alise has quit (Client Quit).
22:09:48 <pikhq> I can ping over IPv6... ::1 and 2001:1938:81:169::1.
22:10:30 <pikhq> So the tunnel's up and... Nothing's being forwarded?
22:11:44 <Vorpal> just the ::1 and ::2 pattern was familiar
22:11:53 <pikhq> And my IPv6 routing table seems to be set right.
22:12:19 <Vorpal> pikhq, it was a PITA under gentoo
22:12:23 <Vorpal> pikhq, works like a charm under arch
22:12:29 <pikhq> emerge aiccu;/etc/init.d/aiccu start
22:12:35 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, can you read the text in the dark area on the youtube island?
22:12:43 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I can't figure out what it says
22:12:50 <Vorpal> pikhq, yes but getting it actually working
22:12:59 <Vorpal> pikhq, let me check old /etc stuff
22:13:07 <pikhq> It's definitely running and I'm definitely getting IPv6 packets going through the link.
22:13:31 <pikhq> It's just not *routing* anything from there.
22:14:19 -!- alise has joined.
22:14:30 <alise> How is one meant to use a laptop on a computer stand?
22:14:35 <alise> The screen is too small!
22:15:02 <Phantom_Hoover> So wait, how long will it be until ISPs actually start using IPv6?
22:16:17 <fizzie> Mine's been doing native end-user v6 for at least three years now.
22:16:52 <Phantom_Hoover> Things that annoy me: people who say "so-called" when they mean to indicate inaccuracy.
22:17:16 <alise> Things that annoy me: People who get annoyed by too many things.
22:17:25 <alise> Flaw of this keyboard: The spacebar is curved! Why?!
22:18:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Things that annoy me: People who feel the need to get a sense of self-superiority by not complaining about things.
22:18:14 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> OK Go bay? <-- hm, any clue what that refers to?
22:18:31 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, eh, okay?
22:19:23 <alise> <Phantom_Hoover> Things that annoy me: People who feel the need to get a sense of self-superiority by not complaining about things.
22:19:31 <alise> ditto, but mentioning them all is really not required :p
22:19:49 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I rate the probability that Vorpal knows who OK Go are as something like zero.
22:20:12 <alise> "if this is true, everything else is LESS THAN FALSE"
22:21:07 <alise> IPv6, it's like IPv4 except now DNS is doubly required!
22:21:36 <pikhq> Eh, running DNS on localhost; not a big deal.
22:21:52 <alise> (the rube goldberg machine video if anyone hasn't seen it, i hadn't: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qybUFnY7Y8w)
22:22:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, P(Vorpal knows about OK Go \/ the Pope's a Catholic) = 0
22:23:00 <alise> That's because P(the Pope's a Catholic) = 0
22:27:02 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself).
22:28:32 <quintopia> alise: link the dogs video too. it's my second favorite.
22:28:47 <cpressey> because he no longer has his magic hat
22:29:21 * quintopia steals back the Pope's hat from cpressey
22:29:40 <alise> quintopia: that one's awesome too (and has better music)
22:29:58 <alise> "OK Go? Yeah, that's the video guys who make their own soundtrack, right?"
22:30:14 <Sgeo> I thought \/ was or
22:30:37 <Sgeo> I guess that's what alise's P(the Pope's a Catholic) = 0 is pointing out
22:30:48 <alise> no, that was just a random joke
22:31:20 <alise> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHlJODYBLKs to satisfy quintopia
22:32:50 <cpressey> so are imported modules like dynamically scoped in Python?
22:34:31 * alise watches as his Mac does Game of Life
22:35:32 <alise> GoL is my Mac's screensaver.
22:35:56 <Sgeo> I meant @ cpressey
22:37:09 <cpressey> Sgeo: an example needs at least 3 files so is hard to give
22:37:49 <cpressey> if a and b both import common, and a changes common.foo and calls something in b, and the thing in b looks at common.foo, it sees the change that a made
22:38:10 <cpressey> but it doesn't always seem to happen
22:38:12 <Sgeo> I used that to do project-global variables in PSOX >.>
22:38:14 <cpressey> there is something else going on
22:39:55 <quintopia> you should make a generalized vant screensaver.
22:40:07 <alise> quintopia: (1) yes, since 2006; (2) what's vant?
22:40:34 <quintopia> the clas of automata in which langton's ant falls
22:40:38 <alise> mmf, this keyboard needs the numpad lobbing off, it's great though
22:40:57 <Vorpal> <cpressey> DOUBLE RESOLVE!!! <-- do you have the resolve required to implement this?
22:41:28 <Sgeo> WHat's wrong with the numpad?
22:43:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, how can I get more nerd cred than having Life as my screensaver?
22:44:05 <Phantom_Hoover> I like electricsheep, too, so changing it will need a good reason.
22:44:06 <Sgeo> turing machine?
22:44:07 <cpressey> re py, i was confused by two modules with the same name in different packages.
22:44:38 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I have no screensaver on this box.
22:44:51 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: Mersenne Search...
22:44:51 <alise> The mac just runs a randomised Game of Life with one pixel per cell.
22:44:54 <alise> Surprisingly fast, too.
22:44:57 <alise> About 100 gens/sec.
22:45:01 <alise> A bit less after a while; 95 or so.
22:45:05 <alise> Starts at like 125.
22:46:06 <quintopia> i like to run around 10000gens/sec...
22:46:42 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: run GoL as your screensaver, 1 cell per pixel, with Caterpillar as the default pattern
22:47:06 <alise> quintopia: it's 1680x1050
22:47:12 <alise> it shouldn't be too fast
22:47:22 <alise> hashlife is rubbish for viewing things interactively
22:47:29 <alise> since different areas are on different generations
22:47:57 <alise> ohh that's what i did wrong
22:48:07 <quintopia> it's not rubbish for watching Caterpillar. Phantom_Hoover: if you do that, it should automatically scroll upwards to follow it.
22:48:27 <quintopia> alise: 1680x1050 is not quite enough to fit entire caterpillar sideways is it :/
22:48:47 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: I saw one that cycled through a bunch of nerdly pursuits, including kite-and-dart tiling the screen
22:49:00 <cpressey> That's more nerd crud than I can handle
22:50:23 <quintopia> oh, another neat SS would be one where it zooms into a single random pixel on the last desktop/screen you had open when it kicked it, and that pixel contains an entire color-shifted copy of the original screen in it...recursive zooming forever
22:50:42 <quintopia> not much nerd cred for that tho. it'd just look cool.
22:50:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
22:51:00 <alise> it'd become solid, though
22:51:38 <quintopia> slowly remove the color shifting as you zoom or something
22:54:52 <cpressey> PowerShell continues to disappoint me. You're all still here.
22:57:21 <alise> cheater: can I hire you as my AI consultant? I have a working framework for it now >__>
23:01:29 <alise> http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/2010/10/the-ly-domain-space-to-be-considered-unsafe/ Using domains in the TLDs of countries you can't trust: surprisingly, a bad idea! trust
23:01:37 <alise> tl;dr use .ly, follow sharia law
23:08:46 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:16:05 <Sgeo> The past that we shared / Lost to the Waves / My journey here / a lifetime ago / and all that I was / is lost, to the waves
23:16:40 -!- cpressey_ has joined.
23:17:16 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:17:38 <Sgeo> Got a lyrics wrong :/
23:17:42 <Sgeo> "The past but a shade"
23:17:46 <Sgeo> That makes more sense
23:26:33 -!- cpressey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:31:05 <alise> Maybe I should start quoting random lyrics!
23:31:21 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:34:23 <oerjan> * olsner watches the waves as they propagate around his abdomen <-- wait were you ircing in the bathtub or something?
23:39:18 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, god, Randall Munroe hasn't rehashed Online Communities, has he?
23:39:30 <oerjan> Sgeo will be happy that i noticed Active Worlds in there
23:39:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:44:09 <oerjan> (also i learned something new from the hovertext today)
23:47:05 <oerjan> <cheater99> i could be a girl <-- at this point i wouldn't believe it if you claimed to be
23:50:15 <alise> P(cheater99 is a girl) = minuscule
23:51:08 <oerjan> <cheater99> alise is not female???? <-- i am almost sure this has been pointed out to you before
23:51:50 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
23:52:21 <oerjan> <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh and is "subspace" just a star trek reference, or some game? It is next to MMO Isle, opposite to second life
23:52:27 <oerjan> hm i wondered about that too
23:53:24 <alise> subspace is used in like everything
23:53:35 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SubSpace_(video_game) but somehow I *doubt*
23:53:49 <oerjan> yeah that's the closest i found too
23:54:05 <Sgeo> It has to be under the water for some reason
23:55:15 <oerjan> i am assuming it's not the record label :D
23:55:47 <oerjan> well since it _is_ next to MMO isle i guess it's pretty clear
23:56:04 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:58:17 <oerjan> > ['a'..'z'] \\ (nub . sort . map toLower) "The quick brown fox jumpwedover my bix sphynx of qwertz."
23:59:05 <Sgeo> > (nub . sort . map toLower) "The quick brown fox jumpwedover my bix sphynx of qwertz."
23:59:42 <alise> cheater: how much to have you consult on AI??