00:00:03 <alise> And, uh, their policy that I now can't find was "we literally don't look at money at all when admitting, and then we promise you can attend if we accept you"
00:00:11 <alise> So a bad example to look at, then!
00:00:15 <alise> The others must be too ashamed to talk about it.
00:00:17 <Sgeo> cpressey, I wouldn't be installing it on the school's server
00:00:24 <Sgeo> I'd be using the server as storage space
00:00:30 <Sgeo> And using FUSE (I think) to install here
00:00:33 <pikhq> alise: Harvard hands out free rides to people who can't afford to go to there.
00:00:41 <pikhq> (that is, everything paid for)
00:00:49 <alise> pikhq: It's quite strange, that.
00:00:55 <alise> pikhq: Doesn't really gel with the elitism, does it?
00:00:56 <Sgeo> It's a 200mb file though
00:01:27 <pikhq> alise: Anyone who's accepted there is already sufficiently elite for them.
00:01:51 <alise> pikhq: Then Ivy League/MIT have a better system than the UK.
00:02:01 <alise> pikhq: Get into Oxford? ENJOY YOUR STUDENT LOAN'S CRIPPLING DEBT
00:02:08 <alise> YOU WILL BE STUCK WITH IT FOREVER
00:02:16 <alise> Fellate the wonderful student loan company! They love you!
00:02:29 <pikhq> alise: Even if you're coming from absolutely nothing, it's still someone who's pretty damned smart & hardworking, and as such likely to be future elite.
00:02:48 <pikhq> alise: Yeah, and Oxford's cheap by US standards. ;)
00:03:50 <alise> pikhq: It's probably cheaper to go to a European university.
00:04:03 <alise> But not quite as classy as being able to whip out your I-went-to-Oxford/Harvard card.
00:04:14 <pikhq> You want infuriating, though?
00:04:20 <pikhq> US public school lunches.
00:04:37 <alise> I don't want to know. I don't even want to know. Go on.
00:04:39 <pikhq> Fries & ketchup count as two servings of vegetables.
00:04:52 <pikhq> And as such, every lunch comes with them.
00:05:18 <Sgeo> "you sent it to All Course Faculty, instead of me, so it placed your message in a different inbox."
00:05:22 <Sgeo> FUCK YOU ANGEL
00:05:30 <Sgeo> FUCK YOU IN THE REAR END
00:05:52 <pikhq> Deep fried, breaded cheese can count as a main course. (mozzarella cheese sticks)
00:06:19 <pikhq> Or (and this is very common) the world's greasiest, blandest pizza.
00:07:16 <Sgeo> FUSE is what I think it is, right?
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00:08:57 <pikhq> alise: Oh, and fries covered with imitation American cheese food sauce!
00:09:11 <pikhq> ... With imitation bacon-flavored bits!
00:10:21 <pikhq> In fact, most of it comes with imitation cheese or very cheap cheese, because it comes effectively free.
00:10:27 <Sgeo> Do all distros use FUSE these days?
00:10:42 <pikhq> (as a farm support program, the government buys all excess cheese. Really.)
00:11:06 <alise> Sgeo: yes, for ntfs-3g.
00:11:17 <alise> pikhq: why is america
00:11:32 <Sgeo> And why does it mount by default under .gvfs?
00:11:41 <Sgeo> Is that an Ubuntu thing, a GNOME thing, or a FUSE thing?
00:11:47 <pikhq> Sgeo: GNOME thing.
00:12:14 <Sgeo> What does KDE do?
00:12:43 <alise> Sgeo: it's also fuse
00:12:47 <alise> it's gnome's vfs fuse filesystem
00:13:06 * Sgeo prefers GNOME's way
00:13:23 <Sgeo> KDE doesn't use FUSE?
00:14:08 <alise> Also, are you sure you understand either way?
00:14:10 <alise> KDE's is superior.
00:14:16 <alise> pikhq: Can you explain fraternities to me?
00:14:50 <alise> pikhq: But... but you see, I don't get it.
00:14:59 <Sgeo> I can't use what KDE does from the commandline, can I?
00:15:23 <alise> Sgeo: Go on, try and use .gvfs from the command-line.
00:15:30 <alise> Also, pretty sure there is some sort of command-line infrastructure for it.
00:15:40 <alise> pikhq: No seriously fraternities, explain them.
00:15:42 <Sgeo> alise, I'm about to
00:15:50 <Sgeo> As soon as this thing finishes uploading
00:16:40 <pikhq> alise: Uh, drunk bastards live in communal housing.
00:16:46 <pikhq> alise: That's... About it.
00:17:16 <alise> pikhq: So, what, is there no communal housing without the drunk part?
00:17:55 <pikhq> alise: Oh, they also get really worked up about it, due to practices such as "selective membership" and "keeping secrets".
00:19:53 <alise> pikhq: NOW EXPLAIN FREEMASONRY
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00:21:20 * Sgeo attempts to run a program located in .gvfs
00:21:44 <Sgeo> Seems to be working just fine
00:21:50 <Sgeo> A bit slow, really
00:23:30 <nooga> i think i should design really small objective lang that would allow to write concurrent programs easily
00:23:41 <nooga> some kind of event driven shit
00:24:07 <nooga> i'm thinking about my academic project for this semester
00:24:10 <alise> pikhq: FREEMASONRY
00:24:31 <Sgeo> Um, does sftp allow access to random parts of a file? If not, how does FUSE simulate it
00:25:26 <alise> Sgeo: by reading all of it.
00:26:17 <Sgeo> Um, how much random reading would a typical Linux installer require?
00:26:22 <nooga> alise: alpha lambda iota sigma epsilon
00:26:38 <alise> Sgeo: whatever you're doing, just don't.
00:27:08 <Sgeo> Having some trouble killing it
00:28:05 <Sgeo> I appear to be unable to access my own filesystem
00:28:43 <alise> pikhq: Now explain why you have weird names for every year of high school.
00:30:04 <alise> pikhq: EXPLAIN, AMERICA! Explain yourself!
00:30:10 <alise> America is on trial and YOU are its representative!
00:33:40 <pikhq> alise: Freshman sophomore junior senior? No clue.
00:34:14 <alise> pikhq: And then you... reuse freshman at college level.
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00:34:19 <alise> Because TERMINOLOGY SHOULDN'T BE USEFUL
00:34:38 <pikhq> Freshman sophomore junior senior through college, as well.
00:35:03 <pikhq> Though freshman is cognate to UK "fresher"...
00:35:15 <pikhq> Still, I got nothing.
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00:35:48 <alise> pikhq: Now freemasonry.
00:36:34 <alise> No? Alright then. Goodnight.
00:36:38 <pikhq> It's a UK organisation.
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00:36:42 <pikhq> That got exported.
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01:13:27 <pikhq> Hmm. A data: URI quine.
01:17:59 <Ilari> Can you use gzip or something in data: URI?
01:20:09 <pikhq> data:application/x-gzip;base64, says yes
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01:45:20 <Ilari> pikhq: Then it should be possible to make... There's already gzip quine.
01:45:41 <Sgeo> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
01:45:45 <Sgeo> I've lost weight
01:46:08 <Sgeo> Unless the scale is off, or that's a normal range of variation
01:46:56 <Ilari> Sgeo: You don't happen to drink full-fat milk?
01:47:31 <Ilari> Ah... Because full fat milk isn't that great for weight gain...
01:47:40 <pikhq> Sgeo: I'm pretty sure that's not an *atypical* range of variation.
01:48:02 <pikhq> Why don't you just eat a typical American diet? Y'know, deep-fried lard.
01:48:23 <Sgeo> I kind of signed up for this bone marrow donor thing a while ago..
01:48:30 <Sgeo> And the limit is 110
01:49:09 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/do3cw/thats_what_happens_when_your_cs_curriculum_is/c11n5f1
01:49:13 <Ilari> Lard isn't great for weight gain either... Loads of carbohydrates and fats might work...
01:49:28 <pikhq> Ilari: I'm being silly.
01:49:46 <Ilari> Especially soft fats...
02:05:14 <Gregor> I spread soft fats on toast for breakfast.
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02:09:38 <Sgeo> Even if I was 111lbs, would it be safe for me to be donating blood?
02:11:38 <Ilari> Of course, weight gain using "all means necressary" might not be healthy...
02:14:41 <Ilari> You know, like some people getting Diabetes type 2 (NASTY NASTY disease) without even being "overweight".
02:15:43 <Sgeo> Is it possible to lose diabetes type 2?
02:16:56 <Ilari> Maybe... Maybe not...
02:17:45 <Ilari> (and that's to "if it is possible at all"). Typically it will not be lost.
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02:24:08 <Ilari> Its not even known what exactly causes diabetes type 2...
02:26:29 <Ilari> Type 2 diabetes is essentially extreme intolerance to carbohydrates and inability to keep blood sugars (even fasting) in check.
02:26:52 <Ilari> Due to very high levels of insulin resistance.
02:33:47 <pikhq> Ilari: So, what, all we know is that there is a *correlation* between excess consumption of carbohydrates & type 2 diabetes?
02:34:25 <Ilari> Its not carbohydrates per se. Nor it is fast carbohydrates per se...
02:35:01 <pikhq> Note that I'm just saying "correlation".
02:35:30 <pikhq> Which, as we all well know, says fuck-all about actual causes.
02:36:31 <cpressey> I had the impression it was something to do with the metabolization of carbohydrates.
02:40:51 <cpressey> I guess what I mean is we can say what "causes" it -- insulin is no longer doing what it's supposed to.
02:41:01 <cpressey> What causes *that* is the mystery.
02:41:26 <cpressey> Just one more thing that medicine is completely in the dark about.
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03:00:14 <cpressey> lament: #haskell is very active while #scheme is essentially dead. do you see any significance in this?
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03:16:08 <Ilari> Actually its known bit further: Pancreas can no longer pump the amount of insulin required to keep blood sugars in check. And when that happens, things start getting downhill really fast.
03:16:51 <Ilari> But what causes the extreme insulin resistance required...
04:11:02 <Gregor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge9VfALthLI
04:14:25 <Gregor> That's an almost-surreal level of stupidity.
04:21:27 <lament> we'll he was probably mentally retarded. it's not really surreal
04:31:56 <pikhq> "It no open push harder".
04:32:50 <Gregor> It seems to me like if you're going to the basement, gravity's on your side anyway, so who needs the car?
04:33:25 <pikhq> Also, that elevator door seems kinda flimsy.
04:34:02 <pikhq> Granted, it's not like they *should* need to take someone ramming the door, but still...
05:08:19 <cpressey> should i watch this? perhaps this commentary and my imagination is quite enough
05:17:10 <Gregor> It's only 46 seconds, just watch it :P
05:17:22 <Gregor> And it's so, so mind-boggling.
05:19:38 <cpressey> dude i so do not remember my youtube login sigh
05:26:52 <pikhq> ｱｲ ﾜﾝﾀﾞ ﾜｲ ｴﾆﾜﾝ ｴﾊﾞ ｻｳｯﾄ ｻﾞｯﾄ ﾊｰﾌ ｳｨｯｽ ｶﾀｶﾅ ﾜｽﾞ ｱ ｸﾞｰﾄﾞ ｱｲﾃﾞｨｱ｡ [ai wanntà wai eniwann ehà sau'to sà'to hâhu uī'su katakana wasù a k`ûtò aitèīa.](I wonder why anyone ever thought that half-width katakana was a good idea.)
05:29:09 <Gregor> cpressey: ... you don't need to log in to YouTube to watch videos ...
05:29:49 <pikhq> Gregor: That one you do.
05:29:55 <cpressey> Gregor: it wanted to confirm i was >=18 years old
05:30:12 <cpressey> because google is supergenuises
05:30:23 <Gregor> It's not like it's pornographic, or even violent really ...
05:32:58 <cpressey> Gregor: the youtube community HAS SPOKEN.
05:35:19 <Gregor> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo-yo The infobox on this page makes me laugh.
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05:47:58 <cpressey> mzstorkipiwanbot: I'm waiting for anyone to say anything at all in #scheme.
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05:50:36 <cpressey> mzstorkipiwanbot, are you a Hobbit?
05:51:42 <fizzie> Oo, you've made it more positive.
05:52:34 <cpressey> but it recognizes privmsgs and commas after its name now
05:54:08 <cpressey> hey, someone said something in #scheme
05:59:30 <cpressey> what's a good language to rewrite it in?
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06:12:06 <cpressey> hm, lua patterns -- not so powerful (no captures)
06:13:04 <cpressey> no no i wrong there is captures yay
06:13:26 <Ilari> IIRC, they have captures, but are not full regular expressions.
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06:16:17 <cpressey> yes. looks like you can't do kleene star (etc) on a group. only on a character class.
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06:19:55 <oerjan> 21:55:26 <cpressey> 23:51 < Riastradh> Boo!
06:19:55 <oerjan> 21:59:30 <cpressey> what's a good language to rewrite it in?
06:20:04 <oerjan> those were in the wrong order, right?
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06:22:00 * oerjan doesn't actually know Boo, but it has a good name
06:22:18 <cpressey> Something about duck typing and .NET is all I remember
06:22:53 <oerjan> statically typed said google's wp abstract
06:23:14 <cpressey> it could be static duck typed i guess
06:23:15 <oerjan> (you note i didn't bother to actually click it :D)
06:27:32 <cpressey> but "structural" i have never heard of in that way
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06:39:40 <cpressey> mzstorkipiwanbot: what language are you written in now?
06:39:55 <lament> mzstorkipiwanbot: I have cancer
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06:42:12 <cpressey> it has Genuine People Personalities
06:42:13 -!- mzstorkipiwanbot has joined.
06:42:25 <cpressey> it should not respond to me if I just say things
06:42:36 <cpressey> mzstorkipiwanbot, but you should respond to this
06:43:20 <cpressey> ok wow. i am such an l33t c0d3r
06:43:34 <cpressey> now let's see if it survives a ping
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06:48:57 <oerjan> it didn't say ping timeout
06:49:06 <cpressey> no, it did survive. then i killed it
06:49:33 <cpressey> i made it better, faster, stronger, able to respond to privmsgs
06:55:25 <fizzie> From the Gophernicus (Gopher server) README: "Gophertags: A gophertag file can be used to rename a directory without renaming the di... uh, confusing. Ask Cameron."
06:55:30 <fizzie> That's some quality documentation.
06:56:13 <oerjan> Cameron was of course last seen prepare to fly a small plane over the pacific
06:57:38 <oerjan> ironically looking for amelia earhart
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10:28:41 <cheater> anyone got the latest version of vagrant
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11:24:44 <alise> 15:39:31 <Sgeo> ST:V isn't bad
11:24:48 <alise> well right actually
11:29:24 <alise> 02:16:05 <cheater> hi
11:29:24 <alise> 02:28:41 <cheater> anyone got the latest version of vagrant
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11:45:11 <alise> <alise> 02:28:41 <cheater> anyone got the latest version of vagrant
11:55:43 <alise> cheater: ^ presumably you want it?
12:19:00 <alise> [[The saying “I have got your back” almost never has the literal meaning of receipt or possession of another’s spine.]] --Wikipedia
12:19:57 <alise> cheater: do you have the new debug.py
12:21:37 <alise> http://pastie.org/1207461.txt?key=sjdgc6ofjjhavzf6dhcwvg vagrant.py
12:21:39 <alise> http://pastie.org/1207462.txt?key=yb3txfhuiste4fydjs3eg debug.py
12:22:47 <alise> cheater: I think this *may* break on Python 2.7.
12:22:52 <alise> Since it uses / for floor(x/y).
12:27:46 <alise> wait no it should work
12:45:51 <alise> cheater: BAH SO UNAPPRECIATIVE
12:53:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
12:53:24 <alise> Hi Phantom_Hoover.
12:54:06 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Alt.
12:55:45 <alise> Things I saw today: A pretentious person nit-picking perfectly fine grammar on a self-avowed prescriptivist's about page.
12:57:48 <alise> I always mix 'em up, I do.
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13:01:50 <alise> Yes, goddammit! Stop mentioning t!
13:02:02 * alise strangles Phantom_Hoover
13:04:10 <alise> Good lord, the writer of Megatokyo is over forty. It must take great skill to be that much of a 20-year-old shut-in for the purpose of making a terrible webcomic.
13:04:13 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
13:04:17 <alise> Yes, I am knocked out.
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13:07:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Anyone have a copy of this month's National Geographic to hand?
13:07:50 <alise> No -- should I, and why?
13:07:54 -!- wareya has joined.
13:08:15 <alise> I like National Geographic's logo a lot.
13:08:54 <Vorpal> alise, I presume you noticed llvm 2.8 is out btw?
13:09:18 <alise> Vorpal: I don't follow LLVM. Probably because I don't use it.
13:09:21 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
13:09:29 <Vorpal> alise, I thought you loved clang?
13:09:36 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: It's quite a strong brand identity, I feel. Also the proportions are nice.
13:09:49 <alise> Vorpal: Well, "love" is a bit strong for anything to do with C -- or Unix -- but I like it, yes.
13:09:54 <alise> gcc is still my go-to compiler out of laziness, however.
13:10:09 <Vorpal> alise, well yeah, same here
13:10:16 <Phantom_Hoover> The proportions are more or less standard A4, aren't they?
13:10:38 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Feel free to work it out. Anyway, I just like it because it's extremely simple and sticks in the mind.
13:12:42 <alise> Ahh, GIMP. It's utterly horrible and it's all you've got!
13:13:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Fortunately, I only need to get approximate pixel counts.
13:13:16 <alise> The GIMP developers need, like, an award for terrible UI design.
13:14:47 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: "Sort of."
13:15:02 <fizzie> I've long known that the An series has the 1:sqrt(2) aspect ratio -- which is of course nice because of the fold-in-half property, 1/sqrt(2) = sqrt(2)/2 -- but I only recently realized that the absolute sizes have a logic in them, too: A0 has a surface area of one square metre. (Well, .0999949, but that's just because the edge lengths have been rounded to millimetres.)
13:15:03 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: When the GIMP started, they wrote all sorts of widgets and infrastructure to fit their needs.
13:15:13 <alise> Then they ripped GTK out of it, but I'm pretty sure it's been rewritten by now, what with 2.0 and all.
13:15:47 <alise> fizzie: Yes, the An series is rather excessively mathematical. :)
13:16:03 <alise> The 1:sqrt(2) ratio isn't so aesthetically pleasing though, in my opinion.
13:16:12 <alise> I mean, A4 pieces of paper just look... slightly too long.
13:16:18 <fizzie> "It can be shown that the B series formats are geometric means between the A series format with a particular number and the A series format with one lower number. For example, B1 is the geometric mean between A1 and A0." Heh.
13:16:53 <alise> [[In order to construct its interface GIMP uses the GIMP tool kit (GTK+). GTK+ was designed to replace Motif, a proprietary toolkit upon which GIMP depended. Originally GTK+ was a part of the GIMP source tree, but has since been made into a standalone library. While originally being designed to run on Unix-like operating systems, GIMP and GTK+ have been ported to Microsoft Windows, Mac OS X, and other operating systems.]]
13:17:00 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: So GTK+ was always separate, in another directory, at least. It seems.
13:18:09 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Based on your downscaled pixel copy.
13:19:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Since I wasn't using a particularly accurate method to get the pixel counts.
13:20:36 <alise> Now -- is it intentional?
13:20:54 <alise> "Beastie wontedly carries a trident to symbolize a software daemon's forking of processes."
13:20:58 <alise> Oh God, I never got that until now.
13:21:24 <alise> *groan*, the BSD daemon isn't free either:
13:21:26 <alise> [[The copyright of the BSD daemon is held by Marshall Kirk McKusick (a very early BSD developer who worked with Bill Joy). He has freely licensed the mascot for individual "personal use within the bounds of good taste (an example of bad taste was a picture of the BSD daemon blowtorching a Solaris logo)." Any use requires both a copyright notice and attribution.]]
13:24:20 <alise> Double groan -- and then from the linked page "Devilette":
13:24:24 <alise> [[Devilette (also known as daemonbabe, daemonchick, daemoness, daemonette, and BSD chick) is a brunette woman garbed in a red latex catsuit with horns and a tail, stylized after the BSD Daemon. They are often spotted as promotional models at BSD-related events. The original BSD chick was Ceren Ercen of FreeBSD Test Labs, whose position there was "Strange Attractor".]]
13:24:28 <alise> Sexism? What's that?
13:33:57 <cheater> alise: i like you because you have nice breastesses
13:34:38 <alise> That sentence is so flawed it needs a medal. Or a plaque, to warn others -- "On the 8th of October 2010, at this site, ..."
13:36:47 <cheater> alise: http://www.bishopston.com/jamie/misc/bsd-daemonette/bsd.jpg
13:37:40 <cheater> miffy wo-Men whip their twats out in an attempt to attract the desperates, therefore creating sexism
13:37:45 <cheater> they're the actual source of it
13:38:08 <alise> I have absolutely no response.
13:42:06 <alise> cheater: you do realise you just tried to explain the existence of sexism with absurd sexism?
13:44:40 <Phantom_Hoover> In other news, the New Scientist have interviewed Jon Richfield.
13:45:08 * alise puts the troll on /ignore
13:49:13 * cheater stares at alise real hard. :
13:57:19 -!- alise_ has joined.
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13:58:09 <cheater> alise_: are you mad at me or something?
13:58:25 <alise_> hm restarting my client removed the ignore
14:00:19 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:00:46 <cheater> that just made no sense what so ever
14:01:04 <alise_> Now why is there a Jerry Falwell quote in my fortune DB?
14:13:04 <alise_> http://adamcadre.ac/content/deviance.png
14:15:06 <alise_> You know -- at the bottom.
14:17:01 <Phantom_Hoover> alise_, that link redirects to http://a.imageshack.us/img714/3807/hotlinko.jpg
14:17:31 <alise_> Oh. Well, see the legend!
14:17:33 <alise_> http://adamcadre.ac/misc.html
14:19:55 -!- alise_ has changed nick to alise.
14:21:54 <cheater> alise: stop being childish. you haven't even discussed this with me, and decided to clam up like a teenag... oh.
14:22:08 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Hotlinking.
14:23:03 <alise> Alas, poor HackEgo.
14:23:40 <alise> I, too, can quote Shakespeare.
14:24:49 <cpressey> < alise> Vorpal: I don't follow LLVM. Probably because I don't use it. <-- omg follow llvm on facebook
14:25:04 <alise> LLVM has 34573589347534895793478934534539458345 fans.
14:25:25 <cpressey> you can't. but there is a llvm interest page. written in italian, for reasons not known to me. 32 people like it.
14:25:28 <HackEgo> awklisp \ babies \ bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ qw.pl \ share \ tmpdir.11826 \ wunderbar_emporium
14:25:39 <HackEgo> addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ fuck \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ penis \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runasperl \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ twat \ unstr \ url \ vagina \ wolfram
14:25:42 <HackEgo> 93|<Oranjer> oohhh <Oranjer> ha <Oranjer> heh <madbrain> and what are your other characteristics? <Oranjer> oh, many, madbrain <Oranjer> but it's hardly worth it to go on with listing that list here
14:25:47 <cpressey> < alise> gcc is still my go-to compiler out of laziness, however. <-- i have switcht to pcc
14:26:09 <alise> cpressey: haha, really?
14:26:18 <alise> `etymology etymology
14:27:51 <HackEgo> entomology \ 1766, from Fr. entomologie (1764), coined from Gk. entomon "insect" + -logia "study of" (see -logy). Entomon is neut. of entomos "having a notch or cut (at the waist)," from en "in" (see en- (2)) + temnein "to cut" (see tome). So called by Aristotle in reference to the segmented division of insect bodies. Compare
14:27:51 <HackEgo> rabies \ 1590s, from L. rabies "madness, rage, fury," related to rabere "be mad, rave" (see rage). Sense of "madness in dogs" was a secondary meaning in Latin. \ \ rage (n.) \ c.1300, from O.Fr. raige (11c.), from M.L. rabia, from L. rabies "madness, rage, fury," related to rabere "be mad, rave." Related to rabies, of
14:27:51 <HackEgo> etymology \ late 14c., ethimolegia "facts of the origin and development of a word," from O.Fr. et(h)imologie (14c., Mod.Fr. tymologie), from L. etymologia, from Gk. etymologia, properly "study of the true sense of a word," from etymon "true sense" (neut. of etymos "true," related to eteos "true") + logos "word." In classical
14:28:16 <HackEgo> childish \ O.E. cildisc "proper to a child," from child + -ish. Meaning "puerile, immature, like a child" in a bad sense is from early 15c. Related: Childishness. \ \ ma \ 1823, childish or colloquial shortening of mamma. \ \ gran \ childish abbreviation of grandmother, 1863. \ \ peepee \ 1923, childish reduplication
14:28:40 <alise> `cat bin/etymology
14:28:51 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Look up what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://etymonline.com/?search='"$QUERY" | \ grep -A 100 ']'"$1" | \ sed 's/\[[0-9]*\]//g ; s/ Look up.*// ; s/ */ /g'
14:29:03 <HackEgo> egocentric \ 1900, from ego + -centric. Related: Egocentricity; egocentrism. \ \ \ * Introduction and abbreviations \ * Who did this? \ * Sources \ * Links \ \ * 2001-2010 Douglas Harper \ * Logo design by LogoBee.com \ * Page design and coding by Dan McCormack \ \ References \ \ 1. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php
14:29:36 <HackEgo> selfish \ 1630s, from self + -ish. Said in Hacket's life of Archbishop Williams (1693) to have been coined by Presbyterians. In the 17c., synonyms included self-seeking (1620s), self-ended and self-ful. \ \ Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have the chance to upset their
14:29:46 <HackEgo> infantile \ 1690s, "pertaining to infants," from L. infantilis, from infans (see infant). Sense of "infant-like" is from 1772. \ \ ta \ 1772, "natural infantile sound of gratitude" [Weekley]. \ \ tummy \ 1867, infantile for stomach. Tummy-ache is attested from 1926. \ \ poliomyelitis \ 1878, from Gk. polios
14:29:51 <cpressey> alise: for my own stuff, yes. obv there is not a lot "out there" that i can get to compile with it
14:30:23 <HackEgo> infantry \ 1570s, from Fr. infantrie, from older It., Sp. infanteria "foot soldiers, force composed of those too inexperienced or low in rank for cavalry," from infante "foot soldier," originally "a youth," from L. infantem (see infant). \ \ zouave \ 1848, from Fr., from Arabic Zwawa, from Berber Igawawaen, name of a
14:30:46 <alise> cpressey: hmm, i thought pcc had pretty good compatibility
14:30:49 <alise> any examples of failure?
14:31:13 <cpressey> alise: it's more to the effect of makefiles written with gcc specifically in mind. also i'm lazy
14:33:00 <alise> cpressey: have you played VAGRANT yet?
14:33:18 <HackEgo> bipolar \ "having two poles," from bi- + polar; 1810 with figurative sense of "of double aspect;" 1859 with reference to physiology. Psychiatric use in reference to what had been called manic-depressive psychosis is said to have begun 1957 with Ger. psychiatrist Karl Leonhard. The term became popular early 1990s. Bipolar disorder
14:33:26 <cpressey> alise: no. i will tonight if the latest copy is conspicuously posted to a pastbin somewhere.
14:33:39 <cpressey> i spent last night rewriting mzstorkipiwanbot in lua
14:33:57 <alise> cpressey: paste it now or later?
14:34:09 <cpressey> alise: now unless you plan awesome upgrades today
14:34:19 <alise> well, i am working on it
14:34:27 <alise> cpressey: it sort of lacks monster AI right now, but you can see how long you can survive and stuff
14:35:26 <alise> It's currently 1600 bytes plus an ending newline.
14:35:38 <alise> (which isn't required, I just have it in there; I'll remove it, I guess)
14:35:53 <alise> oh, emacs doesn't let me :)
14:38:06 <HackEgo> silly \ O.E. geslig "happy" (related to sl "happiness"), from W.Gmc. *sligas (cf. O.N. sll "happy," Goth. sels "good, kindhearted," O.S. salig, M.Du. salich, O.H.G. salig, Ger. selig "blessed, happy, blissful"), from PIE base *sel- "happy" (cf. Gk. hilaros "gay, cheerful," L. solari "to comfort," salvus "whole, safe"). The
14:39:46 <alise> "You know Mario Kart is practically designed to let the worse player win, right?"
14:39:48 <alise> NO NO NO DON'T SAY THAT
14:40:43 <HackEgo> hateful \ late 14c., from hate + -ful. \ \ loath \ O.E. la "hostile, repulsive," from P.Gmc. *laithaz (cf. O.Fris. leed, O.N. leir "hateful, hostile, loathed;" M.Du. lelijc, Du. leelijk "ugly;" O.H.G. leid "sorrowful, hateful, offensive, grievous," Ger. Leid "sorrow;" Fr. laid "ugly," from Frankish *laid). Weakened
14:41:09 <HackEgo> hostile \ late 15c., from M.Fr. hostile "of or belonging to an enemy," from L. hostilis, from hostis "enemy" (see guest). The noun meaning "hostile person" is recorded from 1838, Amer.Eng., a word from the Indian Wars. \ \ foe \ O.E. gefa "adversary in deadly feud," from fah "at feud, hostile," from P.Gmc. *fakhaz
14:41:09 <HackEgo> unfair \ O.E. unfgr "unlovely," from un- (1) "not" + fair. Cf. O.N. ufagr, Goth. unfagrs. Meaning "wicked, evil, bad" is recorded from c.1300. Sense of "not equitable, unjust" is first recorded 1713. \ \ unequal \ 1530s, "unjust, unfair," from un- (1) "not" + equal. Meaning "not the same in amount, size, quality, etc." is recorded
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14:44:33 * alise writes AI super-verbosely to reduce later
14:52:41 <alise> Hey, they follow me now.
14:52:43 <alise> Unrealistically, but...
14:52:49 <alise> cpressey: Quick, propose a crazy HP system.
14:54:07 <alise> cpressey: ...I have a crazy one, if you're dry for ideas.
14:57:29 <alise> cpressey: Here's a clue (well -- giveaway) as to how my method works:
14:57:44 <alise> To decode the HP from the character value in the field, you do int(1/.(x-81))-1
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14:59:34 <alise> cpressey: and to give the rest away, to encode the HP, add 1/(hp+1) to the character value.
14:59:54 <alise> 123 hp = 81.008064516129039
15:05:58 <cpressey> hp for monsters,81=Q, i get that much
15:07:03 <cpressey> anyway, it might be more fair to say DICE C is my go-to compiler these days :D
15:07:23 <alise> cpressey: 81 is Q, yeah
15:07:27 <alise> but storing hp in the actual character grid
15:07:31 <alise> is done with this method
15:07:34 <alise> and then D() just does int(cell)
15:07:36 <alise> so that they all show as Q
15:07:42 <alise> this is just my current plan
15:07:48 <alise> if not entirely serious
15:07:55 <cpressey> here i thought beefier monsters would be R, S, T...
15:10:37 <alise> cpressey: ooh, that's almost an amazing idea
15:11:00 <alise> cpressey: but it's TOO PRECISE, it doesn't have float rounding quirks!
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15:32:42 <alise> cpressey_ sees all the presseys
15:33:14 <Phantom_Hoover> " Scaling Everest was, by far, the most amazing and transformative experience of my life. Unfortunately, this is a thesis on context-free grammars. "
15:33:31 -!- nooga has joined.
15:33:52 <nooga> do you guys know any mechanical CADs for linux?
15:33:59 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: ... lawl.
15:36:30 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Yes :)
15:36:46 <alise> Gregor: (It's from the Little Lytton contest.)
15:37:01 <Phantom_Hoover> " The king of ketchups was being dethroned, and I wanted an explanation. "
15:37:08 <alise> > the truth of the condition, the only conclusion is that it's undecidable
15:37:08 <alise> > whether or not alise managed to become inactive; unlike, say,
15:37:08 <alise> > registration where there's a requirement to be reasonably unambiguous,
15:37:08 <alise> Who's alise?]] --Ed Murphy, Agora
15:38:43 <Phantom_Hoover> " Anamaria had already gotten up obviously because there was no Anamaria in Anamaria’s bed. "
15:39:01 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: "Wha?"?
15:39:20 <cpressey_> "Today we are randomly quoting stuff"
15:40:23 <alise> the context was given in the email!
15:42:21 <alise> [[Dr. Metzger turned to greet his new patient, blithely unaware he would soon become a member of a secret brotherhood as old as urology itself.]]
15:42:34 <Phantom_Hoover> " Sophi broke down in tears, like a diesel car that had run out of petrol. "
15:44:24 <alise> "His eyes were brown, although you wouldn't know it just by looking."
15:51:16 <Phantom_Hoover> " * There is simply no scientific or mathematical formula that defines conservatism."
15:54:48 <alise> "What I like about the second one is not the content but rather the way the reader has to suddenly recast what seemed like simple narration as the thoughts of a character who is for some reason thinking in the narrative pluperfect."
15:58:33 <Phantom_Hoover> "This raises the question of how often Asian-Americans who themselves have Anglo names decide to play up the ethnic heritage angle. Like, if Matt and Lisa Sullivan of Somerville can stick their kid with something like Siobhan, do Tim and Amy Lee of Sunnyvale ever say, "Fuck it — we're going with Huang"? "
16:00:29 -!- cpressey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
16:02:16 <Phantom_Hoover> " The meteor formed a crater, vampires crawling out of the crater. "
16:02:33 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: "Bill's goiter had burst and it was on my head, Mary thought quietly." was it
16:05:02 <alise> The door dilated[1].
16:05:03 <alise> [1]This is in the future, when doors dilate instead of opening the way they do now.
16:06:51 <alise> "It clawed its way out of Katie, bit through the cord and started clearing."
16:08:30 <alise> [[Ah, poetic Paris: with its pâtés and beaujolais, tiramisu and au jus.]]
16:08:40 <alise> can't stop laughing
16:09:20 <alise> The ship sliced through the ocean like wood through water.
16:09:34 <Phantom_Hoover> " The saying “I have got your back” almost never has the literal meaning of receipt or possession of another’s spine. " ← Wikipedia strikes back!
16:10:49 <alise> MacGyver had grown old.
16:11:22 <alise> “What a horrible future we live in!” said FutureMax!
16:11:47 <alise> "The flowers in the meadow grew slowly, as did my erection."
16:11:52 <alise> WE'RE READING THE LYTTLE LYTTON RESULTS
16:11:55 <alise> ISN'T THAT QUOTABLE
16:12:32 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
16:13:57 <alise> Fukutsuru died in 2005 but his frozen sperm lived on for people’s benefit.
16:14:02 <alise> ^ this is the all-time winner, from Wikipedia
16:14:53 -!- lament has joined.
16:14:58 <alise> Alternate version of that: "Fukutsuru died in 2005 but he lives on through the continued use of his frozen sperm."
16:15:09 <alise> Fukutsuru is survived by his frozen sperm.
16:16:08 -!- cpressey_ has joined.
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16:19:18 <cpressey_> it is unavoidable in some greater, pseudo-philosophical sense
16:19:21 <oerjan> aka second law of thermodynamics
16:20:12 <lament> that's a good justification for sloppy coding
16:22:00 <cpressey_> the number one justification is still "who cares, it will save us tens of thousands of dollars", i think
16:23:17 <Gregor> The second law of thermodynamics is a good justification for sloppy coding.
16:23:43 <alise> Gregor has cpressey_ on ignore
16:26:18 <cpressey_> or he has collapse-aka turned on in his reasoning module
16:26:57 <cpressey_> Gregor: I am reminded of an NNTP header I saw on usenet once a long time ago
16:27:11 <cpressey_> Organization: None (why fight entropy?)
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16:28:42 <alise> I love the vision of an AI opening his Preferences dialogue and turning on all these silly options.
16:28:49 <alise> patience-level [====[ ]========]
16:28:58 <alise> [ ] use-contractions
16:29:28 <alise> *image, not vision
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16:32:36 <Gregor> [ ] appreciate music and poetry
16:32:44 * oerjan wonders if blind people have auditions instead of visions
16:33:11 <alise> Gregor: NO ROBOST DO NOT USE SPACSE
16:33:16 <alise> BECAUSE COMPUTERS OND'T
16:33:31 <alise> I could not have spelled "don't" more incorrectly.
16:33:56 <oerjan> an evil spelling if you know your norwegian
16:35:34 <Gregor> alise: O'NTD say you couldn't have spelled "don't" more incorrectly.
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16:48:45 <fungot> cpressey_: i mean, there are alot of scheme documents including tutorials here: http://www.schemers.org/ documents/ standards/ r5rs/ html/ mzlib/ mzlib-z-h-40.htmlnode_chap_40
16:57:18 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if the helium shortage will result in the moon landings being taken seriously again.
16:57:28 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
16:57:37 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: No.
16:57:59 <oerjan> ...ah. i guess norway can scratch that new trade deal we trying to get with china.
16:58:36 <alise> i love how it's we
16:58:41 <alise> like you're all part of the government
16:58:43 <alise> and share in the spoils
17:02:11 <oerjan> atmosphere probably has some, even if it leaks
17:02:25 <alise> recycle the balloons
17:02:26 <oerjan> it's just more expensive to extract
17:02:38 <alise> "you don't own the balloon, you just rent it out"
17:02:55 <oerjan> alise: the problem with that is that balloons leak helium too.
17:03:15 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi.
17:03:35 <oerjan> besides half the fun with helium balloons is making helium voices
17:04:04 <alise> oerjan: omg i just realised that i've never inhaled helium
17:04:13 <alise> seconds later, i realise that i'm probably too scared to
17:04:16 <oerjan> i'm not sure i have either, actually
17:05:21 <alise> Fun fact: Joe Pasquale actually inhaled an entire tank of helium as a child.
17:05:31 <alise> And when it runs out...
17:06:53 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: why would there be more helium on the moon than earth, anyway? it's not like the moon keeps it any better.
17:07:24 <oerjan> without an atmosphere to speak of at all
17:08:24 <alise> oerjan: well it's made of cheese, and we all know what a main component of cheese is...
17:08:34 <Phantom_Hoover> "The abundance of helium-3 is thought to be greater on the Moon (embedded in the upper layer of regolith by the solar wind over billions of years) and the solar system's gas giants (left over from the original solar nebula)"
17:08:56 <oerjan> also about fusion - last time i saw a discussion someone pointed out that to get enough helium from fusion we would have to increase energy consumption a _lot_
17:09:02 <Phantom_Hoover> You could always synthesise helium with a load of alpha sources.
17:09:07 <alise> http://thisisindexed.com/ needs more plotlines.
17:09:18 <alise> oerjan: CAN WE NOT JOKE
17:09:25 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: that's helium-3, the less common isotope iirc
17:09:55 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, yes, but later in that sentence it says the He-4 concentration is ~28ppm.
17:09:55 <oerjan> alise: YOU DON'T JOKE ABOUT SCIENCE
17:10:06 <alise> http://fakescience.tumblr.com/
17:10:52 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: hm yeah i guess if there is a process to get it into the moon rock faster than it leaks out
17:10:53 <cpressey_> I want Vorpal to contribute to this discussion
17:11:01 <alise> cpressey_: i really don't
17:11:37 <cpressey_> alise: how about ancient Chinese sage Fu Zhun?
17:11:45 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, well, the helium is being smashed straight into the rocks, rather than having to go through an atmosphere.
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17:13:43 <alise> Ah, L'oeuvre of the Louvre.
17:17:30 <alise> http://www.rainerspehl.com/IEproject.php?nr=59 WOODEN LAPTOP CASE
17:19:58 <cpressey_> oerjan: the kolakoski sequence leaks memory.
17:20:44 <cpressey_> and the kolakoski sequence is part of number theory. therefore number theory leaks memory
17:21:22 <oerjan> well in a sense every non-repeating sequence leaks memory
17:21:47 <oerjan> since you need arbitrary large memory to generate it
17:22:25 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolakoski_sequence
17:25:26 <cpressey_> oerjan: if a sequence is non-repeting, you need arbitrarily much storage; if you need arbitrarily much storage to generate it, your sequence must be non-repeating
17:25:51 <cpressey_> equivalent, unless my eyes deceive me!
17:25:59 <cpressey_> or whatever part of my body it is that does that
17:26:37 <cpressey_> but have we proved that kolakoski is non-repeating? ... i don't recall
17:27:37 <cpressey_> note to self: go into the business of selling edible hats, for saving of face
17:29:15 <Ilari> Any computable sequence with known repeat is obiviously generatable with finite storage.
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17:32:14 <alise> God, hallu is so awesome in Vagrant.
17:32:35 <alise> ais523: does nethack ever generate impossible characters in hallu?
17:32:40 <alise> like an unused symbol?
17:32:52 <ais523> at least, it generates unused symbol/color combos
17:33:02 <ais523> I don't think it generates a comma, which is the only printable ASCII character that isn't used for anything
17:33:14 <alise> err, what about 0?
17:33:18 <alise> people use that for boulders
17:34:56 <cpressey_> Moria for the Amiga came with a graphical Moria font. A bit gratuitous, but hallucination while using it was pretty awesome.
17:35:06 <ais523> boulders are by default `
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17:35:12 <ais523> but people change them to 0 to make them easier to see
17:35:22 <alise> never seen iron balls :P
17:35:26 <ais523> (and iron balls are dark cyan compared to a boulder's grey, so you can't muddle them)
17:35:34 -!- augur has joined.
17:35:50 <cpressey_> i didn't realize cyan came in a dark but i suppose it does
17:36:23 <ais523> all colors come in a dark, except black and arguably white
17:36:47 <alise> dark cyan, i.e. blue
17:36:56 <alise> (yeah, yeah, i know)
17:37:08 <alise> ais523: dark white is just gery
17:37:11 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, you can get the iron ball by annoying your god in NetHack.
17:37:17 <cpressey_> i just think of it under another name i think. like aquamarine
17:37:19 <ais523> alise: cyan is not a light blue
17:37:19 <alise> gray > or >= #888, say
17:37:25 <alise> ais523: yes, i know, i was joking
17:37:28 <ais523> this is one of the things that irritates me disproportionately
17:37:35 <ais523> as in, I'm some sort of Cyan Rights Crusader
17:37:42 <ais523> cyan is not blue! cyan is not green!
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17:37:47 <alise> is it possible to have overgrown fingernails?
17:38:07 <ais523> I don't think so; fingers are a different shape
17:38:19 <ais523> the position for a nail which is ingrown for a toenail is correct for a fingernail
17:38:26 <Ilari> Hmm... Are there nonrepeating sequences that take o(log N) memory to generate, where N is number of terms to generate?
17:42:31 <Ilari> The string length seems to grow quadrically with counter, which in turn takes O(log N) bits to store, thus it would be O(log sqrt(N)) = O(log N) which is not o(log N).
17:44:04 <ais523> hmm, Microsoft are discussing buying Adobe?
17:44:16 <cpressey_> Ilari: I imagine kolakoski takes o(log N) but have no way of showing that.
17:44:20 <ais523> (potential worry: Flash and Silverlight with the same owner)
17:45:20 <ais523> we will have to compete against them with, umm, HTML5?
17:45:26 <alise> ais523: Then Intel will buy Microsoft. The entire software industry will be one gigantic matryoshka doll!
17:45:27 <Ilari> At least Keränen sequence actually takes theta(log N) memory to generate (like any self-expanding sequence)...
17:45:49 <ais523> alise: intel buying Microsoft is something that seems really implausible
17:45:57 <alise> "Buy me Microsoft." "Sir, the last time you gave an order like that, we ended up acquiring--" "Worked, didn't it?"
17:46:02 <ais523> actually, you could get more layers with McAfee buying Microsoft...
17:46:20 <alise> ais523: *that* is the least implausible thing ever though
17:46:30 <alise> the reverse is more likely, but that'd require Microsoft *acquiring Intel*
17:46:32 <alise> which is ludicrous
17:46:44 <ais523> then Apple can buy AMD
17:46:55 <alise> Microsoft are richer than Intel
17:46:57 <alise> I never quite realised
17:47:16 <alise> microsoft will never buy anybody big though
17:47:19 <alise> after that antitrust
17:47:23 <alise> what happened to the resolution of that?
17:47:25 <ais523> they might if they were unrelated
17:47:26 <alise> it's like they're back to normal
17:47:29 <alise> weren't they meant to be split up?
17:47:30 <ais523> Microsoft buying General Motors, or whatever
17:47:35 <ais523> alise: what happened was that Bush came into power
17:47:40 <alise> (of Microsoft buying GM)
17:47:41 <cpressey_> i just wanted to throw a different vertical into the mix
17:47:44 <ais523> and effectively gave them some sort of presidential pardon
17:47:49 <ais523> I think just by leaning on the courts
17:47:51 <alise> ais523: Ooh, how overtly political for you! Ahem. Anyway.
17:47:58 <alise> ("For", not "of".)
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17:48:12 <ais523> alise: hey, I'm overtly political, but only when people ask me a direct question about it
17:48:23 <alise> ais523: WHAT ARE YOUR OPINIONS ON POLITICS
17:48:28 <alise> [ais523 composes a five-page reply.]
17:48:41 <ais523> well, I approve of the current government, for the time being
17:49:03 <alise> so, the tories then
17:49:07 <ais523> I was terrified that the Conservatives would get into power, but the coalition doesn't seem to have done anything too bad yet
17:49:15 <alise> (If you say "also the Lib Dems", I will probably shoot you.)
17:49:20 <ais523> (I disagreed with much of the conservative manifesto, but they haven't tried to use those bits yet)
17:49:22 <alise> ais523: the conservatives are in power!
17:49:29 <alise> they're just being pulled slightly by the lib dems
17:49:56 <ais523> I agree with the huge cuts in public spending that are needed to try to solve some of the national debt
17:50:07 <ais523> but I'm upset they didn't raise taxes more at the same time
17:50:22 <ais523> alise: yes, I know; more than slightly, actually
17:50:25 <alise> I don't remember the last time just cutting spending actually solved anything.
17:50:35 <ais523> well, it helps to solve a lack of money
17:50:58 <alise> You'd think, wouldn't you? Economics is the only science based on something almost, but not entirely like logic.
17:51:03 <ais523> I would have voted Liberal at the last election, if I was in the correct country at the time and there hadn't been a mixup around arranging a proxy vote
17:51:11 <alise> that did not work without that correction.
17:51:41 <alise> "Of course you can for numbers like the Champernowne constant, for obvious reasons, but I've been thinking lately: is it even possible to prove normality (for any base) for numbers like e and pi? What about disproving it? It seems like such a concept that is unrelated to real mathematics (don't know how to phrase what I mean by that), and just seems impossible to prove. Any general thoughts about this?" --xkcd forum, displaying intense intelligence
17:51:51 <ais523> (although the seat I vote in is safe Labour, with Conservatives easily second)
17:51:55 <alise> I wonder why he thinks it's so "unreal".
17:51:55 <ais523> (so it really doesn't matter which way I vote)
17:52:00 <alise> Perhaps because you can't enumerate all of pi's digits?
17:52:20 <alise> ais523: the Tories actually ousted the Lib Dems in Oxford, strangely enoguh
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17:52:24 <alise> despite it being a safe lib dem seat
17:52:26 <ais523> I think he/she means it doesn't have any obvious practical applications
17:52:32 <alise> (I forget *which* Oxford)
17:52:57 <ais523> Universities are generally so strongly Labour, it's frightening
17:53:05 <ais523> I think all my friends here are Labour voters, or at least most of them
17:53:18 <alise> Oxford West and Abingdon
17:53:25 <ais523> (I tend to disagree with people who vote for parties without actually checking their manifestos...)
17:53:28 <alise> I think that's the one without the University but with everything else
17:53:31 <alise> oh, a minority of colleges are inside it
17:53:54 <alise> on they MP they replaced:
17:53:56 <alise> [[A Daily Mail article published on October 31, 2007 highlighted Harris' positions on social issues, castigating him as 'Dr. Death' for his "views on abortion, voluntary euthanasia, immigration and gay rights". The 'Dr. Death' term was subsequently used on numerous occasions, generally by Christian conservatives, in criticising Harris, including articles by Damian Thompson[20], Cristina Odone [21] and Nadine Dorries.]]
17:54:08 <alise> you can't get much of a better compliment than the Daily Mail calling you Dr. Death
17:54:21 <ais523> its only job is to reflect the opinions of uninformed people
17:54:22 <alise> i wasn't being sarcastic
17:54:29 <alise> ais523: Reflect? No -- create.
17:54:32 <ais523> in order that they buy it in order to confirm their own opinions
17:54:51 <ais523> alise: I think it wouldn't sell so well if it ran contrary to existing opinions on the matter
17:55:08 <ais523> e.g. if it said that, say, mobile phone masts were harmless, none of its readership would believe it
17:55:09 <alise> ais523: yes, the general "philosophy" -- as much as it exists -- is a reflection
17:55:16 <alise> but in the individual instances, it influencse
17:55:47 <alise> I mean, I'm sure someone who thinks "immigrants takin oor jobbs" and reads the Daily Mail gets an awful lot of their opinions from it.
17:56:40 <alise> close-minded -- drops the "d" after close, presumably using the "-ed" to replace it; discuss
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18:02:40 <cpressey_> Ilari: I bet the digits of a Chaitin's Omega require o(log n) storage. I could even venture o(n), from what I understand.
18:03:11 <Ilari> Actually, maybe there are sequences that require o(log N) memory to generate. In practicular if there are superpolynomial functions f(n) that can be computed with log(f(n)) memory.
18:05:46 <Ilari> And those functions are subexponential.
18:08:39 <cpressey_> "normality (for any base)" -- wtf does this mean?
18:09:26 <ais523> cpressey_: normality in a number is that each digit has an equal chance of occurring in the first n digits of its decimal expansion, in the limit for n
18:09:40 <alise> Devils! Artichokes! A burning feeling that you're where you should be!
18:09:46 <alise> All these have DIGITS in common.
18:10:12 <alise> Quickly: pick a random number between one and infinity.
18:10:56 <alise> Quickly: pick a random number between one and infinity.
18:11:04 <cpressey_> if i pick it it won't be random anymore
18:11:52 <cpressey_> but if you establish normality for one base, doesn't that imply normality in all bases?
18:12:15 <cpressey_> with a possible exception for unary
18:12:58 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderfuck ACTUAL ARTICLE
18:13:10 <alise> cpressey_: does it? why?
18:13:22 <alise> also, unary isn't a (positional) base
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18:13:58 <ais523> this was actually randomly selected via a program that could select any number from 1 to infinity
18:13:59 <Gregor> alise: In Soviet Russia, gender fuck YOUUUUUUU
18:14:04 <ais523> but not with an equal probability of each
18:14:08 <alise> ais523: there ex- right.
18:14:28 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: ais523: BTW, number does not mean integer.
18:14:54 <ais523> alise: to be precise, I was generating cryptosecure nybbles (with /dev/random as an entropy source) using ssl rand, then counting the number before the first 0
18:15:44 <alise> ais523: in Perl, rand(1) X 1 -- X := < or X := <=, which is true?
18:15:49 <alise> what a confusing way of putting it
18:15:54 <alise> ais523: in Perl, can rand(1) ever == 1?
18:16:08 <ais523> it's from 0 up to but not including 1
18:16:39 <alise> ais523: hmm, then how does one write one that includes 1?
18:16:55 <alise> without relying on float stuff?
18:17:12 <ais523> my $x=2; $x = rand(2) while $x > 1;
18:17:28 <ais523> I think that gets the probabilities rigth
18:17:43 <ais523> without having to mess with float deltas or anything like that
18:17:51 <ais523> 0 to 1 inclusive isn't all that useful a range to randomize in, though
18:18:00 <ais523> normally, you're doing int(rand(n)) to get a random integer from 0 to n-1
18:19:02 <alise> ais523: it was scary at first
18:19:17 <ais523> but looks sensible now?
18:19:39 <Gregor> If you could "reinterpret_cast" in Perl, you could just reinterpret_cast 1.0 to an integer of the same size, add 1, and reinterpret_cast back, then pass that to rand() :P
18:20:37 <pikhq> Gregor: You can do much crazier casting than *that* in Perl.
18:21:09 <pikhq> Gregor: Presuming, of course, that you're fine with blessing values.
18:21:26 <Gregor> I do not tolerate blessing.
18:21:31 <ais523> Gregor: reinterpret_cast doesn't really make much sense in that context
18:21:42 <ais523> given that Perl scalars have a string and a numeric value which need not be correlated
18:22:22 <Gregor> ais523: Most things don't make sense in the context of Perl.
18:22:28 <Gregor> ais523: Perl sucks all logic and reason out of the universe.
18:22:34 <Gregor> ais523: It is The Beast.
18:23:30 <alise> -- says Gregor, who just talked about C++.
18:24:11 <Gregor> reinterpret_cast was easier to say than (*((long long *) &var))++
18:24:14 <alise> [[Breast fetishism (also known as mastofact, breast partialism, or mazophilia)[1] is a type of sexual fetish which involves a sexual interest in female breasts.] --Wikipedia
18:24:26 <alise> Vagina fetishism is a type of sexual fetish which involves ...
18:24:50 <ais523> $ perl -e '$! = 18; print $!,$/'
18:24:51 <ais523> Invalid cross-device link
18:25:10 <ais523> in this case, $! simultaneously has the values 18 and "Invalid cross-device link"
18:25:12 <cpressey_> < ais523> given that Perl scalars have a string and a numeric value which need not be correlated <-- i learn something new every day
18:25:29 <Gregor> cpressey_: New and horrifying.
18:25:30 <alise> ais523: hmm, how does one automatically set one based on the other?
18:25:37 <alise> or can only perl(1) do that?
18:25:55 <alise> ehird@dinky:~/Code/vagrant$ perl -e '$! = (0..10); print $!,$/'
18:25:55 <alise> Operation not permitted
18:26:02 <alise> IT IS NOT PERMITTED TO LOOK AT THE FIRST TEN ERROR MESSAGES
18:26:49 <ais523> try perl -e '($! = $_), print $! for (0..10)'
18:26:53 <ais523> you can't assign an array to a scalar
18:27:12 <Gregor> Perl: It is the worst.
18:27:40 <Gregor> `run perl -e 'print "I'\''m evil!";'
18:28:03 <ais523> $ perl -e 'use Scalar::Util qw/dualvar/; $a = dualvar 1,"b"; print $a+0; print $a.""; print "\n"'
18:28:32 * ais523 is not entirely certain what people would use dualvar /for/, but Scalar::Util is a good place for it
18:29:19 <cpressey_> i only wish both those values could be references
18:29:35 <ais523> cpressey_: well, you can have a reference to a scalar with such a value
18:29:42 <ais523> what you're saying doesn't really make sense, though
18:29:48 <ais523> it's just, you have a scalar with a string value and a numeric value
18:29:55 <ais523> and the two don't resemble each other, like they generally do
18:30:51 <ais523> I don't really see how the string value of a scalar could be, you know, not a string
18:31:21 <alise> ais523: how can you automatically set the string version based on the number -- or can you?
18:31:48 <ais523> addition just gives you a number
18:32:21 <Gregor> `echo But now I'm fast again.
18:32:29 <alise> ehird@dinky:~/Code/vagrant$ perl -e 'use Scalar::Util qw/dualvar/; $a=dualvar 1,2; print $a+1; print $a.""; print $/'
18:32:37 <alise> Behold! The string value of the number is an integer.
18:32:57 <ais523> the string value is "2"
18:32:59 <Gregor> alise: I'm betting somewhere within dualvar it casted that to a string.
18:33:14 <ais523> well, 2 has a numeric value 2, and a string value "2"
18:33:40 <ais523> so it just took the string value from 2
18:33:58 <ais523> hmm... is "true but False" working in Rakudo yet?
18:34:01 <alise> ehird@dinky:~/Code/vagrant$ perl -e 'use Scalar::Util qw/dualvar/; $a=dualvar "a",1; print $a+1; print $a.""; print $/'
18:34:02 <cpressey_> but what if you do $a=dualvar 1,$b where $b=dualvar 1,"x"
18:34:18 <ais523> cpressey_: it'd just take the string part of $b
18:34:20 <alise> cpressey_: it kills your only son
18:34:33 <alise> if you have more than one son, it kills the others so the remaining one is your only son, then kills that
18:34:34 * Sgeo assassinates Perl
18:34:35 <ais523> alise: the numeric value of "a" is 0
18:34:40 <alise> if you don't have a son, it makes you give birth to one
18:34:52 <ais523> really, this is all quite logical
18:34:59 <cpressey_> the numeric value of EVERYTHING is 0
18:35:09 <Sgeo> cpressey, itym "EVERYTHING"
18:35:12 <ais523> unless it happens to look like a number
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18:35:35 <ais523> Sgeo: you don't have to quote strings in Perl, if it's unambiguous without
18:35:40 <ais523> (although use strict; checks for that sort of thing)
18:35:48 <ais523> impomatic: did you ever get that program working?
18:36:07 <Sgeo> You need quotes around "STDIN" but not EVERYTHING then?
18:36:25 <Sgeo> Depends on context?
18:36:27 <ais523> Sgeo: no, because there's no context where you can validly have either a string, or the name of a filehandle
18:36:56 <impomatic> ais523: JclRobots? Yes, the new version is working, but only on the latest beta release of Tcl. 8.5.9 didn't support something it needed
18:37:00 <alise> Sgeo: stop saying bibble!
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18:37:04 <alise> It's like Tcl but in JAVA
18:37:10 <ais523> e.g. print STDIN "Hello, world!" is different from print STDIN, "Hello, world!" which is different from print *STDIN, "Hello, world!"
18:37:17 <ais523> impomatic: I meant the BF Joust program
18:37:37 <ais523> Sgeo: the set of all variables named something followed by STDIN, or else the concept of the variable name STDIN itself
18:37:55 <impomatic> Oh right :-) Yes, it was only a simple example for the wiki, not even competitive.
18:37:58 <ais523> because there isn't actually a sigil for filehandles, you need to use that notation to pass them to functions instead
18:38:09 <ais523> even some simple programs can be competitive
18:38:28 <Sgeo> alise, why should I stop saying bibble?
18:38:40 <alise> it makes you sound like you're a few months old.
18:38:55 <Sgeo> Besides the fact that I'm not an image editor
18:39:11 <Sgeo> http://bibblelabs.com/
18:39:19 <ais523> wow, what a coincidence! I'm not an image editor either
18:41:04 <Sgeo> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bibble
18:41:14 <Sgeo> WTF? For the record, I never used it to mean any of those things
18:41:38 <alise> You definitely meant it as #2.
18:42:44 <ais523> amusing ontopic Wikipedia vandalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brainfuck&diff=389517231&oldid=389497650
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18:43:45 <ais523> although whatever program generated that clearly wasn't designed for characters significantly past 255 in Unicode
18:44:49 <alise> wow, slow-loading page
18:44:53 <alise> Sgeo: presumably the article has unicode in it
18:45:20 <ais523> alise: it's quite a large page...
18:45:41 <Sgeo> ^^that particular random barely-a-reference brought to you by the Cartoon Guide to Statistics
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18:51:49 <Gregor> ais523: I assume the result of that program was the entire page?
18:51:53 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
18:52:04 <ais523> Gregor: so do I, I haven't tried to run it
18:52:09 <pikhq> Hey, look. A Nobel Peace Prize winner that has *actually done something*!
18:52:21 <pikhq> Liú Xiǎobō, human rights activist in the PRC. Currently in jail.
18:52:27 <pikhq> The PRC is currently very pissed.
18:52:49 <Gregor> The PRC is always pissed.
18:53:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:53:21 <pikhq> Yes, but not usually to the point of blacking out all foreign news and forbidding all discussion of the Nobel Prize in domestic news.
18:54:05 <Gregor> pikhq: Mmmm, they're all about censorship though.
18:54:12 <Gregor> pikhq: So that's not wildly beyond their usual douchebaggery.
18:54:40 <pikhq> Gregor: They're also claiming that this award goes against Nobel principles.
18:55:33 <pikhq> And being very very pissy to the Norwegian ambassador.
18:55:35 <Gregor> pikhq: Still very typical douchebaggery.
18:57:59 <pikhq> They're also arresting university students for celebrating the first Chinese winner of the Nobel Prize.
18:59:41 <Gregor> The PRC: They are douchebags. This we know.
18:59:47 <Gregor> They are capable of ANY level of douchebaggery.
18:59:55 <Gregor> It is a government that severely needs to be wiped from the globe.
19:00:18 <pikhq> Though there are countries that need it worse.
19:00:20 <Gregor> It is the most regressive government outside of the middle east and sub-Saharan Africa.
19:00:42 <Gregor> OK, that's true ... but North Korea is so TYPICALLY evil :P
19:01:01 <pikhq> North Korea is just the most regressive government. :)
19:01:30 <pikhq> ... And appears to run their government based on Bond villians.
19:02:05 <cpressey_> alise: it's pretty easy to show that if a number is normal in base n, it is also normal in base n^2 and in base n/2 (for even n obv)
19:02:50 <alise> <ais523> Gregor: so do I, I haven't tried to run it ;; in case it deletes all your files? :-P
19:03:11 <alise> <Gregor> It is the most regressive government outside of the middle east and sub-Saharan Africa. ;; yeah, North Korea, pikhq got there first :P
19:03:13 <Gregor> pikhq: I think what bothers me most about China is that you can get enough of an impression of how normal life is in China to see that people are blinded and actively lied to by their government, but in North Korea is't just a giant mystery.
19:03:40 <Gregor> I mean, you KNOW they are, but really we have no idea. It's friggin' North Korea.
19:03:46 <alise> North Koreans want change but would never, ever ask for it.
19:03:54 <alise> They sort of have this food problem to deal with first.
19:04:03 <alise> Also, the not-getting-killed-by-voting thing.
19:04:15 <alise> Not getting killed by spoiling your ballot.
19:05:36 <pikhq> Gregor: You can get *an* idea of what it's like in North Korea. Courtesy of defectors.
19:06:00 <pikhq> Imperfect, though.
19:06:18 <pikhq> Whereas the PRC... They let everyone know about *all* the crazy!
19:07:41 <Gregor> They just have too many people and too much vitality to do anything about it.
19:07:58 <alise> Briggard: thou pitst'k on desgrute.
19:08:02 <pikhq> Yup, Palin is running in 2012.
19:08:53 <pikhq> If she wins, I'm asking for refugee status.
19:10:31 <cpressey_> next step: ayn rand's profile on a coin
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19:12:16 <pikhq> cpressey_: If that happens I think we should eradicate the US.
19:12:30 <pikhq> Turn Canada into a continent.
19:15:45 <alise> this room has ten walls and i am the third
19:17:45 <pikhq> Oh, and Obama is calling for the PRC to release Liú Xiǎobō.
19:20:33 <pikhq> Oh, that's wonderful. The prize is being officially termed "blasphemy".
19:21:01 <pikhq> You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
19:21:40 <alise> "two years' deprivation of political rights"
19:21:55 <alise> Ahh, I love how everybody uses "rights" to mean "rights that we have decided are privileges".
19:22:06 <pikhq> Ain't it "wonderful"?
19:25:55 <cpressey_> "A given infinite sequence is either normal or not normal, whereas a real number, having a different base-b expansion for each integer b >= 2, may be normal in one base but not in another (Cassels 1959 and Schmidt 1960)." --WP
19:27:41 <pikhq> http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/137/137517/13751746/jpg/active/320x.jpg
19:28:40 <pikhq> It's like he doesn't even realise that the Norwegian government has no influence on the Norwegian Nobel Committee.
19:29:02 <pikhq> Oh, except that the members are appointed by Norwegian Parliament.
19:30:24 <alise> if Taiwan wanted to crush China and get their independence universally recognised
19:30:30 <alise> they just have to build a billion sweatshops!
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19:34:27 <pikhq> <evilotto> counting utf-8 characters is easy - just take the byte count, then subtract the number of bytes in the range 128-192.
19:34:41 <pikhq> That... Actually works on well-formed UTF-8.
19:35:23 <alise> pikhq: But it's quicker to skip over characters.
19:35:35 <alise> As Colin Percival did.
19:35:38 <cpressey_> you have to traverse the string anyway, so yes
19:35:39 <alise> (After Kragen Sitaker.)
19:35:45 <pikhq> Oh, that does fuck up one thing...
19:35:55 <pikhq> Character composition.
19:36:33 <cpressey_> Phantom_Hoover: they need to offer me a tardis mug
19:36:41 <cpressey_> ok... uk people are *not* going to get that
19:37:38 <cpressey_> Phantom_Hoover: do you get PBS on your TV?
19:37:49 <cpressey_> if not, you can only imagine the mug to which I refer
19:38:19 <cpressey_> PBS is the only source of non-American TV for the US, afaict
19:38:25 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: It was in the past (classic Who)
19:38:38 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: The new one got aired on Sci-Fi, and then moved to BBCA.
19:38:55 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: It was never SyFy when they had Doctor Who.
19:39:10 <alise> And it's pronounced "siffie".
19:39:13 <alise> I swear to god it is.
19:39:55 <alise> pikhq: Does BBC America air the *UK* BBC news?
19:39:58 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey_, tell us of this mug from the far distant land of America.
19:40:08 <alise> Sure, it's partly irrelevant... but oh so comforting!
19:40:20 <cpressey_> Phantom_Hoover: YOU PUT COFFEE IN IT AND THE TARDIS DECAL WOULD FADE TO INVISIBLE
19:40:30 <alise> <pikhq> Character composition. ;; you mean like combining umlaut and shit?
19:40:35 <cpressey_> coffee, not tea, because this is AMERICA.
19:40:39 <alise> well obviously it counts codepoints not graphemes
19:40:44 <alise> because counting the latter is LOLIMPOSSIBLE
19:40:58 <alise> cpressey_: I WANT IT
19:41:12 <cpressey_> now i regret not giving them money
19:41:24 <cpressey_> pbs has turned into a shopping channel for videos now, though
19:42:02 <alise> on Microsoft buying Adobe: "Merging two huge globs that each can extract rent on their various properties into a single similar vast glob. What could possibly go wrong..." "The combined corporate mass would exceed the Tolman–Oppenheimer–Volkoff limit and they would collapse into a black hole?"
19:42:06 <pikhq> alise: They do the BBC World newscast every weekday in the evening.
19:42:11 <alise> pikhq: INSUFFICIENT
19:42:26 <alise> pikhq: I want the ten o' clock news as it airs on BBC 1!
19:43:02 <pikhq> alise: Y'know what I'd love? The ability to pay the BBC license fee and stream BBC over the Internet. While in the US.
19:43:18 <alise> pikhq: It's more than you probably think it is.
19:43:31 <alise> £145.50 for colour, £49 for black and white.
19:43:35 <alise> (Yes, you can pay for just black and white.)
19:44:13 <alise> pikhq: $19.23/month, paid annually. Actually that's surprisingly cheap...
19:44:24 <alise> pikhq: Also, iPlayer quality isn't that good, unfortunately.
19:44:38 <alise> And downloading it requires a separate program that pretends to be an iPhone.
19:44:53 <alise> pikhq: Also shows disappear after something like seven days.
19:45:29 <alise> pikhq: You also can't stream the channels, just the news and stuff.
19:45:33 <pikhq> alise: No, I mean actually stream it. Properly.
19:45:35 <alise> But yeah, if it existed, I'd approve.
19:45:50 <pikhq> Also, dammit, I want multicast on the public Internet.
19:46:01 <alise> pikhq: For news itself, though, I presume you know about http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/.
19:46:04 <pikhq> Fuck the cable infrastructure, multicast streaming, bitch.
19:46:12 <pikhq> alise: Yeah, it's in my RSS reader.
19:46:13 <alise> pikhq: Which is, incidentally, the world's *only* well-designed news website.
19:46:33 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: They're in talks.
19:46:39 <pikhq> I suspect this will make Flash suck more.
19:46:57 <alise> pikhq: Well, certainly on Linux/OS X.
19:47:09 <alise> On Windows ... it's actually already acceptable on Windows, or, well, moreso than other OSes.
19:47:13 <alise> So that doesn't help.
19:47:15 <cpressey_> It's somewhat humbling that almost all real numbers are uncomputable.
19:47:18 <alise> Now if Apple bought it up...
19:47:26 <alise> ...they'd drop support for all non-OS X OSes (see: Logic Pro)
19:47:29 <pikhq> alise: Well, there's one dev for Flash Linux.
19:47:31 <alise> But it would get a lot better on OS X.
19:47:35 <pikhq> Precisely one dev.
19:47:41 <alise> pikhq: I've seen his blog. He's not very smrt.
19:47:53 <cpressey_> In other news, Microsoft is in talks to acquire the computable reals.
19:47:58 <alise> Or was that the OS X guy?
19:48:01 <alise> No, the Linux guy.
19:48:04 <pikhq> And from what I gather, you'd need an actual dev *team* to get Flash to not suck.
19:48:25 <alise> http://blogs.adobe.com/penguinswf/ Here's the blog.
19:48:32 <alise> Hmm, it seems to have reverted to default formatting of some description.
19:49:02 <alise> Meanwhile, the first result for "penguin.swf" on Google: http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hopha/penguin.swf
19:49:33 <pikhq> I wonder if Flash sucks less *running in a Windows VM*.
19:50:00 <Gregor> alise: Actually, Flash sucks in a lot of ways on Windows.
19:50:17 <alise> Gregor: Said like someone who's never used Flash on OS X or Linux.
19:50:31 <pikhq> Gregor: Does Youtube peg a CPU?
19:50:34 <Gregor> I have and frequently do use Flash on both.
19:50:36 <cpressey_> "Coworker Tinic has just published..."
19:50:42 <alise> Flash is especially bad on 64-bit Linux, because *they dropped 64-bit support right after a pre-release that was later found to have serious security flaws*.
19:50:44 <Gregor> I've also used the Flash-based soundmanager2 on Windows and Linux.
19:50:48 <alise> They're apparently going to add it back in.
19:50:49 <Gregor> On Windows, timing is a horrible joke.
19:50:56 <alise> You get to use nspluginwrapper!
19:51:08 <alise> Hint: nspluginwrapper *crashes for no reason, constantly*.
19:51:18 <alise> Every time I'm listening to something using YouTube, I never close a tab.
19:51:24 <alise> nspluginwrapper doesn't like it when I close tabs.
19:51:49 <Gregor> Yes yes, alise angry, alise eat babies.
19:51:58 <Gregor> Anyway, Microsoft has competition for Flash, if you don't recall.
19:51:58 <alise> No, nspluginwrapper angry :P
19:52:04 <Gregor> It's called Silverlight and nobody cares.
19:52:08 <cpressey_> nspluginwrapper confused and hurt.
19:52:11 <Gregor> But if they could squash Flash, who knows.
19:52:25 <alise> Now I am feeling sorry for nspluginwrapper
19:52:31 <alise> DAMN YOU CPRESSEY_! DAAMN YOUUUUU--
19:52:44 <Gregor> cpressey_: Damn you and damn your underscore to hell!
19:53:38 <cpressey_> i would nick myself back to normal but this cpressey freak is still logged in
19:54:07 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I AM NATURALLY LIGHTER THAN AIR
19:54:11 <alise> cpressey_: /ns ghost cpressey password
19:54:19 <alise> And suddenly the cpressey am disappearate, like ghost.
19:54:49 <Gregor> How do people not know about /nickserv ghost ...
19:55:07 <alise> Gregor: Bad parenting.
19:56:40 -!- cpressey has quit (Disconnected by services).
19:56:44 <Gregor> cpressey_: Darn, you've changed your password since accidentally leaking it to #esoteric on 2010-08-10 :P
19:56:57 <alise> Gregor: I seem to recall he was joking.
19:57:00 -!- cpressey_ has changed nick to cpressey.
19:57:15 <alise> Wow, I was -- what was I going...?
19:57:16 <Gregor> alise: Oh, I just grepped the logs for cpressey.*identify :P
19:57:45 <alise> well why would he write identify rather than like
19:57:49 <alise> ns identify parr0t
19:57:52 <pikhq> IT PLAYS VIDEO BETTER INSIDE OF A WINDOWS FUCKING VM.
19:57:54 <cpressey> hey, that means i could kill mz*bot removely too
19:58:01 <Gregor> alise: Thought he was in a nickserv query window?
19:58:05 <alise> pikhq: did you try? XD
19:58:07 <pikhq> Aside from one detail: the Win2k network stack sucks.
19:58:14 <alise> Gregor: Who makes nickserv query windows?
19:58:19 <alise> pikhq: it's limited
19:58:22 <alise> 10 concurrent connections or sth
19:58:26 <alise> there's a patch -- or --
19:58:46 <pikhq> alise: That's crazy.
19:58:48 <Gregor> alise: The real question is who would subject themselves to Pidgin for IRC.
19:59:10 <cpressey> Gregor: people who are subjected to it anyway, that's who
19:59:22 <alise> "Windows 2000 Professional does have a limit of 10 concurrent inbound
19:59:22 <alise> connections, as is stated in the following Microsoft knowledge base
19:59:30 <alise> pikhq: Only inbound.
19:59:41 <alise> I can only find patchse for XP.
19:59:45 <pikhq> It uses less CPU *and memory* to have a full Virtual Box VM running for Flash.
20:00:09 <alise> pikhq: Now set up a VNC server on that Windows box, target it at a Flash window, and integrate it into a browser plugin that:
20:00:13 <alise> (1) Contacts the Windows VM
20:00:17 <alise> (2) Tells it to load the Flash file
20:00:25 <alise> (3) Tells it to focus on it with VNC
20:00:30 <alise> (4) Receives the video stream
20:00:34 <pikhq> So fucking perverse.
20:00:37 <alise> (5) Displays it in the area where the Flash should be
20:00:42 <alise> (6) Relays clicks and typing.
20:06:41 -!- impomatic has left (?).
20:11:19 <cpressey> iow, rewrite nspluginwrapper into winbrowsepluginwrapper
20:11:57 <pikhq> alise: Better still. Use RDP for the display.
20:12:15 <alise> pikhq: Sure thing, get on it.
20:16:51 <alise> Author of the book, "The Fag Physics"
20:19:06 * pikhq wonders what the best version of Windows to run in a VM is
20:19:41 <pikhq> alise: For those programs that'll work on 95? ... Probably, actually.
20:20:10 <alise> It Runs In DOSBox!(TM)
20:24:25 <alise> pikhq: If you run into problems I should be able to help. After all, I used it in a VM for several days as my only OS...
20:24:29 <pikhq> Aaaaw. They no longer support Flash on 95.
20:24:38 <alise> pikhq: Meh, oldversion.com
20:25:01 <alise> Macromedia Flash Player 9 (1.3 MB)
20:25:05 <alise> Although I don't know if YT supports 9.
20:25:14 <alise> pikhq: Whatever, just use the latest version that works.
20:25:26 <alise> pikhq: As for the browser, Seamonkey is probably your best bet.
20:25:33 <pikhq> Flash 9 worked on 98...
20:25:46 <alise> I keep forgetting Opera exists.
20:25:52 <alise> pikhq: If it works in 98 it'll probably work in 95.
20:25:56 <alise> Find a way to get around the OS check, proceed onwards.
20:26:08 <cpressey> "There are, of course, more possible ABCs for numbers, and this would be a poor hierarchy if it precluded the possibility of adding those. You can add MyFoo between Complex and Real with..."
20:26:44 <cpressey> trying to think of the right emoticon for how that makes me feel
20:27:00 <alise> pikhq: Things that make me RAGE: Adobe refusing to give me a download page for Flash because "Chrome has it built-in!".
20:27:10 <alise> I want a fucking download page! Fuck you, Adobe! You don't know what the fuck I want!
20:30:29 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: Python manual. "Abstract base classes for numbers."
20:30:57 <Phantom_Hoover> This is what happens when SE people try to do mathematics.
20:30:58 <cpressey> http://docs.python.org/library/numbers.html
20:31:14 <cpressey> Python is perfectionist about its crap.
20:31:48 <cpressey> C++ and Python people seem to have the same weird terminology there
20:32:05 <cpressey> Are there any non-Base abstract classes?
20:32:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Do explain what an abstract class is and what Base means.
20:32:59 <cpressey> An abstract class is one that doesn't... wait, there are no abstract classes as such in Python.
20:33:25 <cpressey> This is what happens when SE people try to do SE.
20:34:15 * Phantom_Hoover tries to think what class sensibly fits between C and R.
20:34:36 <Phantom_Hoover> It's kind of stupid to think of it as a tower in the first place, but whatever.
20:34:48 <cpressey> "Interesting". They're a bit more involved than real numbers, but it would be an exaggeration to call them "complex".
20:35:38 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: especially in a language which prides itself on duck typing
20:35:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Reals are a 1-dimensional continuum, complexes a 2D one.
20:36:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Logically, the intermediate sets would all be fractal continua.
20:36:28 <cpressey> I'm sure that's exactly what the manual author had in mind.
20:37:05 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: That's actually what I thought, ha.
20:37:06 <cpressey> In fact 'MyFoo' stands for "my fractally-organized ordinals"
20:37:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, it could be helpful if you're computing things to do with infinite-coin Hanoi.
20:37:11 <alise> After your first line.
20:38:03 * alise tries to declip a song with Audacity
20:38:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Since the legal moves for n-coin Hanoi approach Sierpinski's triangle as n grows.
20:38:42 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: ...awesome.
20:38:51 <alise> How can a number approach a fractal?
20:39:04 <alise> Or do you mean, rendering the legal moves in some way?
20:40:05 <Phantom_Hoover> So I assume you could use a fractal continuum to simulate moves in n-coin Hanoi as movements through the Sierpinski triangle.
20:41:59 <cpressey> not enough Lithuanian peanut-butter-based shaving crme in your diet.
20:44:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, how do you uniquely represent a point on the Sierpinski gasket.
20:44:38 <cpressey> "Note however, that since computers store floating-point numbers as approximations it is usually unwise to use them as dictionary keys."
20:44:50 <cpressey> They "store them as approximations".
20:45:45 <Sgeo> Would "are approximations to what you probably wanted to store" make more sense?
20:46:00 <cpressey> Sgeo: Yes. It would be a good start.
20:46:12 <alise> <cpressey> not enough Lithuanian peanut-butter-based shaving crme in your diet.
20:46:22 <alise> <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, how do you uniquely represent a point on the Sierpinski gasket. ;; a complex number
20:46:27 <alise> or, more conveniently, R^2
20:46:33 <alise> say the whole fractal is from (0,0) to (1,1)
20:46:39 <alise> then pick a point in-between
20:46:43 <alise> to pick further, go smaller
20:47:06 <alise> of course if you don't have reals, rationals should suffice at a pinch.
20:47:46 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: or, something to do with Pascal's triangle for something more "exact" on a computer i guess
20:47:49 <cpressey> or you could represent it using Pascal's triangle mod 2
20:47:49 <alise> The pattern obtained by coloring only the odd numbers in Pascal's triangle closely resembles the fractal called the Sierpinski triangle. This resemblance becomes more and more accurate as more rows are considered; in the limit, as the number of rows approaches infinity, the resulting pattern is the Sierpinski triangle, assuming a fixed perimeter.[6] More generally, numbers could be colored differently according to whether or not they are multiples of 3, 4, e
20:47:49 <alise> tc.; this results in other similar patterns.
20:48:27 <cpressey> or you can generate it with a CA
20:48:28 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, that's just a consequence of addition mod 2 being the same as XOR.
20:48:50 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: it's still relevant! maybe.
20:49:07 <Gregor> I too shall join in this argument!
20:49:37 <cpressey> or you can mail-order Siepinski gaskets from Gregor's Olde Infinite Objects Shoppe.
20:49:59 <Gregor> Rolls right off the tongue
20:50:25 <cheater99> cpressey: how do you generate a pascal's triangle with a california?
20:50:43 <alise> cpressey: CA won't produce the infinitely detailed one though
20:50:50 <pikhq> alise: Okay, Flash 9 actually works on Windows 95 without any work.
20:50:54 <alise> pascal's triangle is only sierpinski considering infinite rows
20:50:57 <cpressey> alise: well, neither will Pascal's triangle then?
20:50:58 <cheater99> cpressey: are you being childish today as well
20:51:01 <alise> does it do youtube?
20:51:11 <alise> cpressey: well that's why i implied using unspecified trickery to use it
20:51:16 <alise> to identify points
20:51:20 <pikhq> alise: I've not installed it yet; waiting on this '95 torrent.
20:51:45 <alise> pikhq: Link me up, dood.
20:51:52 <alise> I had 95 a while back but not now.
20:52:00 <alise> Or I could find it myself :P
20:52:06 <cpressey> alise: I dunno. The CA/PT triangle is infinite from the bottom up, the Hanoi-coins one is infinite from the top down...
20:52:10 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: You can with MATHEMATICS
20:52:34 <alise> Well, let's see, S^(log 3/log 2) is a function from (log 3/log 2) -> S, in set theory.
20:52:45 <alise> I know of the sets 1 and 2, but what the fuck does log do to a set?
20:52:46 <pikhq> alise: http://www.torrentz.com/faa86c86e912728e0ede9463c0227a5c0c656c1a
20:53:01 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Clearly (log 3/log 2) has dimension (log 3/log 2) but not that cardinality.
20:53:08 <alise> So, figure out what set has that dimension, and you're done.
20:53:19 <cpressey> this is similar to the fractions of a bit stuff
20:54:10 <cpressey> setdefault: awesome dict method with ultracrap name.
20:54:28 <alise> cpressey: I always forget what setdefault does because it has a shitty name. What does it do again?
20:54:58 <cpressey> if k not in d then d[k] = v; return d[k]
20:55:48 <cpressey> if there's something there, return it. if not, insert this and return it.
20:56:10 <alise> also, ; works fine there
20:56:27 <alise> cpressey: woot, that shortens vagrant
20:56:36 <alise> if v not in w:w[v]=choice(W)
20:56:36 <alise> q=w[v];s.addch(B-Y,A-X,r(32,126)if U and 0==r(0,2)and q-32 else q)
20:56:54 <cpressey> useful for like: self.defined_in.setdefault(groupname, set()).add(filename)
20:57:48 <alise> ehird@dinky:~/Code/vagrant$ wc -c vagrant.py
20:57:49 <alise> ehird@dinky:~/Code/vagrant$ wc -c vagrant.py
20:57:55 <cheater99> how do you get a set of fractional dimension
20:57:58 <alise> (note: inflated file size due to verbose debugging AI code)
20:58:08 <cpressey> i wonder what wars took place in those two years
20:58:23 <alise> on another topic, Lebesgue measure is so cool
20:58:44 <olsner> Sgeo: any response from FIS yet?
20:59:00 <alise> mixed up which one is the fractal one >__>
20:59:07 <alise> olsner: FIS -- the bancstar people?
20:59:17 <alise> "For example, the Cantor set (a zero-dimensional topological space) is a union of two copies of itself, each copy shrunk by a factor 1/3; this fact can be used to prove that its Hausdorff dimension is ln2 / ln3"
20:59:18 <olsner> alise: yes... well, potentially at least
20:59:28 <alise> "The Sierpinski triangle is a union of three copies of itself, each copy shrunk by a factor of 1/2; this yields a Hausdorff dimension of ln3 / ln2"
20:59:56 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: then, a (ln3/ln2)-ple of S-es is a function from the Sierpinski set to S.
21:00:09 <alise> *from a member of the Sierpinski set
21:00:15 <pikhq> Whoa. Win95 actually supports Unicode. *Barely*.
21:00:20 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought Hausdorff dimension didn't work like that...
21:00:46 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: YOU DON'T WORK LIKE THAT
21:00:48 <olsner> pikhq: don't you have to install some unicode support patch from ms first?
21:01:04 <alise> pikhq: I hope that Win95 is old enough to not be OSR2.5.
21:01:19 <pikhq> alise: It's the release version.
21:01:25 <alise> pikhq: OSR2.5 replaced Windows Explorer with Internet "I Can't Believe It's Not Windows Explorer" Explorer.
21:01:34 <alise> Thus dramatically steepening the decline of Windows.
21:01:40 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I know that!
21:01:41 <pikhq> olsner: Installing unicows.dll made it actually support Unicode as well as NT versions.
21:01:45 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: But you have to cheat somehow.
21:01:47 <alise> So cheat like this!
21:01:53 <olsner> if windows explorer == internet explorer, then certainly windows == internet!
21:02:23 <pikhq> alise: This one doesn't have IE at all.
21:02:27 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, but I'm trying to work out what R^(log 3/log 2) is /so that I can identify a point on the Sierpinski set uniquely*.
21:02:32 <cpressey> olsner: you have COM and .NET, so... YES
21:02:54 <alise> The best way to package .NET applications inside COM executable files!
21:02:55 <pikhq> Gregor: UNICOde for Windows Systems
21:03:12 <Gregor> `addquote <olsner> if windows explorer == internet explorer, then certainly windows == internet!
21:03:16 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: R^(log 3/log 2) is a function from a set with cardinality log 3/log 2 to the raels!
21:03:38 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF UNGRATEFUL BÂTARD
21:03:43 <olsner> oh my, I'm having quotes added
21:03:43 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, but how does one have a set with non-integral cardinality (indeed, non-natural cardinality).
21:03:54 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: CLEVERLY
21:03:54 <HackEgo> 237|<olsner> if windows explorer == internet explorer, then certainly windows == internet!
21:04:26 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Clearly ∈ should result in a real, representing how-much-in the value is.
21:04:28 <Sgeo> olsner, I haven't emailed them yet
21:05:05 <alise> {1[1/2], 2[1/2]} is a set with cardinality 1, and both 1 ∈ S and 2 ∈ S = 1/2.
21:05:23 <alise> {1[3]} = {1,1,1}, of course.
21:05:33 <Phantom_Hoover> I have no idea if it makes sense, but it is awesome nontheless.
21:06:32 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: {{}[Ω]}, where Ω = Chaitin's constant.
21:07:07 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: "Now, allow me to introduce you to NEGATIVE CARDINALITIES!" gargled the mad scientist, before vomiting profusely.
21:07:21 <alise> ^ Now a Lyttle Lytton entry!
21:07:26 <pikhq> Hmm. I've got an old game here that'd be nice to play. Maybe it'll run nicely in Win95.
21:07:34 <cpressey> those are just all those sets pointing in the other direction
21:07:59 <cpressey> pikhq: thank you for saying "I've got" and not just "I've"
21:08:22 <pikhq> cpressey: Odd as it is, it *is* idiomatic in General American.
21:08:36 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: because it bugs me.
21:08:43 <alise> Generalised Americanism
21:08:49 <alise> pikhq: Everything runs nicely in Win95 :P
21:08:57 <Gregor> I've a bone to pick with anybody who argues that "I've got" is incorrect.
21:08:58 <alise> Are you gonna do it in VirtualBox or QEMU or what?
21:09:00 <cpressey> pikhq: I only ever hear it on the internet, somehow.
21:09:31 <cpressey> Gregor: it makes you sound like you should be telling me about how a storm's a-comin', as you can feel it in your knees.
21:10:13 <pikhq> alise: Virtaul Box.
21:10:32 <alise> Virtaul is an awesome word; we must now define it.
21:10:39 <pikhq> The Chinese knockoff. :D
21:10:41 <Gregor> cpressey: Y'all ain't one to be mockin' American colloquialism.
21:10:58 <Gregor> cpressey: Also, I feel it in my ANKLES.
21:11:02 <Gregor> cpressey: Get it right.
21:11:26 <Gregor> cpressey: ALSO, it doesn't matter what Mr. Ivory Tower thinks it sounds like, because English is defined by its speakers, and its speakers overwhelmingly say "i've got"
21:11:40 <alise> "I feels it in my ANKLES, I tells ya! Mah ANKLES! Geddit RIGHT, for chrissakes, man!"
21:11:47 <alise> <Gregor> cpressey: ALSO, it doesn't matter what Mr. Ivory Tower thinks it sounds like, because English is defined by its speakers, and its speakers overwhelmingly say "i've got"
21:11:53 <alise> Most pointless pushing of descriptivism ever?
21:12:16 <Gregor> I WILL PUSH MY DESCRIPTIVIST AGENDA 'TIL THE END OF TIM
21:12:19 <alise> pikhq: I shall join you, O 95 one.
21:12:21 <Gregor> That was a typo, but I'm leaving it.
21:12:32 <alise> Gregor: NO IT WASN'T IT'S LINGUISTIC INNOVATION
21:12:45 <alise> pikhq: I will now scare you: When Windows 95 was released, I was 48 hours old.
21:12:55 <Gregor> alise: "Every typo is linguistic innovation" is not descriptivism.
21:13:03 <alise> Gregor: Neither are jokes!
21:13:38 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, wait, I say "I've" rather than "I've got" quite frequently.
21:14:42 <alise> pikhq: Dammit, feel old!
21:14:45 <Gregor> From now on I'm using "I've have"
21:14:46 * pikhq uses ddrescue on this horribly beaten up Sim City 3000 disc
21:15:02 <alise> pikhq: HOW OLD ARE YOU AGAIN I'VE FORGOTTEN
21:15:20 <Gregor> alise: Younger than me, older than you X-P
21:15:23 <alise> pikhq: HOLY FUCKING SHIT SGEO IS ONE YEAR OLDER THAN YOU
21:15:27 <alise> HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE
21:15:31 <pikhq> alise: AND WINDOWS 95 WAS NOT THE FIRST VERSION THAT I USED
21:15:40 <Gregor> OK, let's rank everyone by age:
21:16:00 <Gregor> alise < pikhq < Sgeo < Gregor < ais < cpressey
21:16:11 <alise> Gregor: Eh? How old are you?
21:16:18 <Gregor> alise: Like you said, 45.
21:16:22 <Gregor> But ais is at LEAST 60.
21:16:27 <Gregor> And cpressey is older than time itself.
21:16:29 <alise> Gregor: No butrly :P
21:16:37 <pikhq> And oerjan is older than cpressey.
21:16:44 <alise> "Alex Smith was born on 15 April 1987"
21:16:54 <alise> So he's, like, 22-23
21:17:02 <Gregor> I am the age that a person is if he's a third year graduate student who did all schooling by the canonical years.
21:17:05 <alise> I distinctly recall 24.
21:17:07 <Gregor> Oh shoot, ais is younger than me :P
21:17:16 <alise> And you climb further up the ranks of senility.
21:17:18 <Phantom_Hoover> alise < pikhq < Sgeo < ais523 < Gregor < cpressey < oerjan
21:17:37 <alise> asiekierka comes before me
21:18:02 <Gregor> Vorpal must be roughly in the Sgeo-to-Gregor range, I'd guess.
21:18:09 <alise> there was another guy my age iirc
21:18:20 <alise> Gregor: vorpal turned 20 a little bit ago iirc
21:18:31 <alise> so he's actually around the same age as pikhq at the least
21:18:40 <alise> Gregor: dude, he only acts like he's old :P
21:18:48 <alise> he knows very little!
21:18:57 <alise> has to be like 45835945
21:19:01 <alise> because he hates everything modern
21:19:08 <alise> or however the fuck you spell it name :P
21:19:13 <Phantom_Hoover> alise < Phantom_Hoover < (pikhq, Vorpal) < ais523 < Gregor < cpressey < oerjan
21:19:15 <Gregor> jix and bsmntbombdood are both in the pre-pikhq-to-ais range ish?
21:19:16 <alise> I peg as being cpressey's age or older
21:19:23 <alise> bsmnt was like 16 in 2008
21:19:31 <alise> so he'd be around 18 now
21:19:39 <alise> jix, no clue, he's before my time
21:19:42 <Gregor> SO I was about right thanks to the "pre"
21:19:44 <alise> impomatic is 40-something i think
21:19:47 <alise> so actually older than oerjan
21:19:57 <Gregor> (If such a thing is possible!)
21:20:13 <Gregor> HackEgo < EgoBot < alise < Phantom_Hoover < (pikhq, Vorpal) < ais523 < Gregor < cpressey < oerjan
21:20:17 <alise> but it doesn't talk much
21:20:21 <Gregor> HackEgo < EgoBot < clog < alise < Phantom_Hoover < (pikhq, Vorpal) < ais523 < Gregor < cpressey < oerjan
21:20:37 <Gregor> If we had a bot that was older than an actual channel member, that would be pretty epic.
21:20:47 <pikhq> Oh *wow*. The Win95 installer uses Windows 3.11 widgets.
21:20:55 <alise> Gregor: it's offensive to group people's names with vorpal
21:20:57 <alise> use = or something
21:20:57 <Gregor> pikhq: Heeeey, I remember that!
21:21:11 <Gregor> pikhq: In the original disk-based Win95 release, you could make it use progman instead of explorer.
21:21:17 <Gregor> pikhq: I think they removed that from later releases.
21:21:32 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, Vorpal, please rank yourselves in order of age.
21:21:50 <Gregor> Who else actually talks ...
21:22:33 <pikhq> Gregor: Windows XP SP2 was the last version of Windows to have progman.
21:22:34 <Gregor> cheater99: I assume by your "99" that your birth-year is 1999, making you 10 or 11.
21:22:34 <pikhq> Gregor: Seriously.
21:22:53 <Gregor> pikhq: Nononono, the Win95 install let you set progman to be your default shell, instead of explorer.
21:22:56 <Gregor> pikhq: In the installer.
21:23:01 <pikhq> Gregor: That's amazing.
21:23:10 <pikhq> Gregor: Perverse, but amazing.
21:23:16 <Gregor> Well that makes cheater99 the youngest. At an incredibly negative -89 or so.
21:23:18 <alise> WE NEED A BIG BIRTHDAYS PAGE ^_____________________^
21:23:27 <alise> olsner: 24, amirite?
21:23:34 <cpressey> olsner: how old are you? SOME KIND OF CHART IS BEING ASSEMBLED
21:23:39 <alise> no other age is permitted
21:23:54 <alise> Why would you use such a format...
21:23:57 <Gregor> olsner is younger than EgoBot!
21:24:00 <alise> olsner: THAT IS NOT 24 OR 18
21:24:04 <alise> we will list youa s that
21:24:07 <Gregor> Also, he was on this channel before he was born.
21:24:12 <olsner> alise: no, I'm 24 actually, how the hell did you know?
21:24:15 <alise> olsner < HackEgo < EgoBot < clog < alise < Phantom_Hoover < (pikhq, Vorpal) < ais523 < Gregor < cpressey < oerjan
21:24:25 <Gregor> alise: HackEgo is less than three.
21:24:28 <alise> olsner: probably you said it at one point, or it was on your blog, or i just deducted it
21:24:29 <Gregor> alise: Alternatively, HackEgo is <3
21:24:31 <alise> Gregor: NO IT'S NOT
21:24:41 <alise> olsner: I am *scarily* accurate at these things
21:24:43 <olsner> excellent deduction then
21:24:45 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I copied cpressey
21:25:02 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner < HackEgo < EgoBot < clog < alise < Phantom_Hoover < (pikhq, Vorpal) < Sgeo < ais523 < Gregor < cpressey < oerjan
21:25:12 <alise> pikhq: Are you seeding that torrent :|
21:25:29 <alise> olsner < HackEgo < EgoBot < clog < alise < Phantom_Hoover < (pikhq, Vorpal) < Sgeo < ais523 < Gregor < cpressey < oerjan < Phantom_Hoover
21:25:46 <alise> I’m called Matti Niemenmaa, and am also known as Deewiant in some online circles. I’m male, about a score of years old, and live in Finland.
21:26:02 <alise> so Deewiant's actually in the pikhq/Vorpal/Sgeo quadrant
21:26:28 <cpressey> i would not have guessed this ordering
21:26:36 <alise> pikhq: GOOD! Because I never seed >_>
21:26:38 <olsner> so this chart is seriously going to list me as 3 years old?
21:26:46 <alise> olsner: you have nobody to blame but yourself.
21:27:10 <alise> olsner: adjust your birthdate on your resume
21:27:26 <alise> make one and adjust the birthdate on it
21:27:44 <alise> first 3-year-old with a resume ever!
21:28:14 <olsner> child prodigy should be a group of 3-year-old kids doing prodigy songs
21:28:30 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:28:31 <alise> All together now! SMACK MY BITCH UP
21:28:33 <pikhq> alise: I set a default goal of a 2.0 ratio.
21:28:38 <alise> , said the 3 year olds.
21:29:07 <olsner> 20 classical Prodigy hits, performed in the rising sun kindergarten in south sussex
21:29:27 <alise> you're Swedish -- why do you say Sussex :|
21:30:11 <olsner> well, sometimes I just say stuff
21:30:25 <olsner> I'm sorry but that's just the way I do it
21:30:48 <olsner> "det är lite så jag jobbar", as we would say in swedish
21:31:10 -!- cheater99 has joined.
21:33:31 <alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV_News
21:33:47 <alise> olsner: "That is light for the jagged job-searcher", I presume
21:34:09 <olsner> alise: no, not even close
21:34:52 <pikhq> That are lite for jag jobber.
21:35:06 <olsner> more like "that's kind of the way I work" (work as in doing a job, not work as in function)
21:35:42 <olsner> well, bathtime anyway, see you some other time
21:36:10 <alise> olsner: three year old's bathtime
21:36:15 <alise> don't forget the ducky!
21:36:54 * alise gives olsner a ducky
21:37:05 <olsner> quacky quacky ducky ducky
21:37:05 -!- alise has changed nick to Media.
21:37:11 <Media> alise: What do you have to say for yourself, PAEDOPHILE?
21:37:13 -!- Media has changed nick to alise.
21:37:19 <alise> Media: I-- what? I was just giving him a ducky--
21:37:20 -!- alise has changed nick to Media.
21:37:28 <Media> A "ducky" -- is this not a VILE SEXUAL PERVERSION?
21:37:29 -!- Media has changed nick to alise.
21:37:32 -!- alise has changed nick to Media.
21:37:33 <olsner> alise is like 2.5a old anyway, I'm older
21:37:35 <Media> You are hereby sentenced to DEATH
21:38:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Paedofinder_Gene.
21:38:10 <olsner> but I'm certain some legislations allow minors to be sentenced as paedophiles even when molesting older kids
21:38:14 <Media> Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaUkt59vY1Q
21:38:45 -!- Paedofinder_Gene has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover.
21:38:51 <olsner> it's just the kind of legal area where stupid things like that would be going on (except, of course, copyright law)
21:38:53 <pikhq> Well, it "reboots to install more files" and then... Locks up.
21:39:14 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:40:06 <pikhq> So, whaddya think. Qemu?
21:40:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Piratefinder_Gen.
21:40:49 -!- Piratefinder_Gen has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover.
21:40:57 <Media> pikhq: I can probably fix it.
21:41:01 <Media> I have got it working in VB before.
21:41:03 <Media> That's what I used.
21:41:05 -!- Media has changed nick to alise.
21:41:23 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Hey, you anticipated my reference before I noticed.
21:41:49 -!- jcp has joined.
21:42:01 <alise> pikhq: Firstly: How much RAM you got?
21:42:02 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: >_>
21:43:23 <pikhq> alise: I assigned it 512M.
21:45:16 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:45:20 <pikhq> alise: Just shy of 2GiB.
21:45:24 <alise> "Divided into 2 GB partitions!"
21:45:41 <alise> A: to ITWASTHEBESTOFTI:
21:45:44 <Gregor> alise: Assigned drive names of C-Z...err
21:46:10 -!- wareya has joined.
21:46:20 <alise> pikhq: Try starting again and tell me what you do at each step. I'm surprised -- maybe it is a problem with the CD.
21:46:34 <Gregor> olsner < HackEgo < EgoBot < clog < alise < Phantom_Hoover < wareya < (pikhq, Vorpal) < Sgeo < ais523 < Gregor < cpressey < oerjan < Phantom_Hoover
21:46:34 <pikhq> Dang, this is time-consuming when you forget to start kqemu...
21:46:43 <alise> pikhq: Is the CD attached to the VM still?
21:46:54 <pikhq> Gregor: Erm, that.
21:46:59 <alise> KVM: Because FUCK EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE VIRTUALISATION
21:47:20 <Gregor> alise: At this point, your CPU has to be pretty darn olde not to have it ...
21:47:23 <pikhq> alise: It goes all the way through the steps on the booted-from-CD part of the install, reboots to boot off of the HD, and halts.
21:47:34 <alise> Gregor: All low-end Intel models lack it.
21:47:40 <alise> At least before i3 started becoming common on laptops, I guess.
21:48:02 <Gregor> alise: People with low-end processors are low-end people.
21:48:03 <alise> Gregor: For instance, any Core 2 laptop with a battery life over three minutes doesn't have VT-x.
21:48:28 <alise> I'm using a 1.33 GHz Core 2 Duo processor and it's wonderful.
21:48:32 <Gregor> alise: And yet, my '08 MacBook does.
21:48:40 <pikhq> Gregor: God, Bochs would be practical for this.
21:48:43 <alise> Gregor: ORITE because you *love* Apple
21:49:26 <alise> pikhq: I'm trying the CD in VB now.
21:49:38 <alise> Swear this was graphical for me.
21:50:17 <pikhq> alise: Yeah, it just has a very small non-graphical bit. Like all of Windows installs.
21:50:29 <alise> I don't recall it, but sure :P
21:50:34 <alise> Wow, Audacity's "Fix Clip" tool is ... magical.
21:50:45 <alise> It has made the awesome album well-produced!
21:50:49 <alise> From a square to actual wavse.
21:51:33 <alise> Gregor: Are you aware of what "audio" is?
21:52:09 <Gregor> alise: No. But I am aware of the concept of waves moving through physical matter, and have been told that audio is somehow related to that. Describe it to me.
21:52:16 <alise> pikhq: What installation method did you choose in VB?
21:53:11 <alise> pikhq: I diagnose your only diagnosis.
21:54:10 <alise> Issue with Fix Clip: when a part of the track isn't clipped, but it leads into a louder, clipped section, the onset is kinda subdued unlike before.
21:56:05 <alise> pikhq: Windows 95 is so awesome.
21:58:25 <alise> pikhq: SHOULD I INSTALL MICROSOFT MAIL AND FAX OPMG
22:02:58 <pikhq> Hmm. It seems that Audacity handles Replay Gain.
22:05:32 <alise> I wonder how Clip Fix actually works.
22:05:52 <alise> pikhq: The problems with Audacity are otherwise, like having the world's worst UI or the world's crappiest feature set.
22:07:00 <alise> http://www.reddit.com/r/Scholar/ ITT: Organised breaking of copyright for science!
22:08:00 <alise> pikhq: Mail and Fax or not?!
22:08:40 * alise enables all accessories
22:08:55 <pikhq> alise: The only optional thing I installed was defrag.
22:10:07 <alise> WTF NO UK KEYBOARD LAYOUT
22:10:34 <pikhq> Hmm. Should I try and *clean* this here horribly abused disc, or should I just torrent one?
22:10:43 <alise> It's like ddrescue but more reliable.
22:11:18 <alise> pikhq: I've actually downloaded my own torrent for a game before after losing my disc.
22:11:31 <alise> pikhq: The Linus Torvalds backup system: put it on the Internet for everyone else.
22:12:39 <alise> http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3503268/Worms_Armageddon_(Team17__1998__Sold-Out_version)
22:13:57 <pikhq> "Getting ready to run Windows 95 for the first time..." \o/
22:15:10 <pikhq> IT FUCKING CRASHED
22:15:14 <pikhq> IT FUCKING CRASHED QEMU
22:15:58 <alise> pikhq: VIRTUALBOX BITCH
22:16:11 <alise> IT'S WHAT PLANTS CRAVE
22:16:57 <alise> pikhq: Windows Setup, part two, now running in VirtualBox.
22:17:01 <alise> Askin' for a username and shit.
22:17:08 <alise> I'm Elliott, bitch.
22:17:19 <alise> Scannin' hardware 'n shit
22:17:22 <alise> pikhq: It works perfectly yo.
22:18:47 <pikhq> alise: Have you seen "Getting ready to run Windows 95 for the first time..." ?
22:19:07 <alise> It is now asking me to insert my CD-ROM, after having created an account and scanning hardware.
22:19:33 <alise> pikhq: Create VM, 384 megs of ram, 2 gig HD, start it, insert CD, go through the install, let all the default hardware settings be taken, yes you have network and sound hardware, take out the CD, reboot.
22:19:36 <alise> Insert CD when prompted.
22:19:43 <alise> Use VirtualBox 3.1.6.
22:20:46 <alise> Now it 'plains about not having files on the CD.
22:24:17 <alise> pikhq: Reboot *with* the cd but press f12; select the hard disk to boot from.
22:24:26 <alise> Follow the above instructions and it should work perfectly, unless you're crazy.
22:24:31 <alise> Or your computer is crazy.
22:25:55 <alise> Add Printer Wizard: You must install a printer before you can print from Windows. This wizard will help you install your printer.
22:26:03 <alise> Printer printer printer printer printer? Printer! Printer printer printer, printer; printer.
22:26:47 <pikhq> Windows protection error. You need to restart your computer.
22:26:55 <alise> pikhq: Hmph. What?
22:27:03 <alise> pikhq: Do you have virtualisation turned on in VirtualBox?
22:27:22 <pikhq> I rebooted and selected normal mode, and now have a login prompt.
22:28:06 <alise> pikhq: By the way, the first -- no, the *very* first -- thing to do is to install VBEMP.
22:28:12 <alise> You have *no idea* how slow and how ugly the VGA driver is.
22:28:22 <alise> I CAN SEE THE INDIVIDUAL CONTROL PANEL ICONS DRAW ONE BY ONE.
22:28:37 <alise> "Opening the start menu" takes quantifiable time!
22:28:41 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: say something
22:31:34 <alise> pikhq: It is possible that this disc does not have networking stuff on it.
22:31:53 <pikhq> alise: Use D:/, not X:/
22:31:56 <cheater99> do you have win 95 se with Plus! ?
22:32:12 <alise> pikhq: Didn't work for me, but I'll try again.
22:32:17 <alise> cheater99: no, that's rubbish. wait, since when is there an se?
22:32:37 <cheater99> it wasn't "se" but everyone knows it's the "se"
22:32:48 <alise> it makes explorer into ie explorer
22:32:49 <alise> for the first time
22:32:59 <alise> replacing a wonderfully light and usable interface with bullshit
22:33:02 <alise> cheater99: there are third-party drivers
22:33:11 <alise> OSR B is just 98 pretending to be the best Windows ever
22:33:35 <alise> yes, crap a whole two years early
22:33:37 <cheater99> YOU HAVE JUST COLLAPSED THE TIME CONTINUUM.
22:33:56 <alise> pikhq: this cd seems to suck
22:33:59 <alise> it's crashing virtualbox
22:34:10 <alise> or maybe that's the failed copy
22:34:20 <pikhq> It does seem to suck.
22:34:27 <alise> pikhq: i could find the one i used way back
22:34:32 <alise> that one worked perfectly
22:34:38 <cpressey> HALT at 0xfe0fc1ac: Printer Wizard is casting Bad Magic
22:35:34 <alise> pikhq: Hmph, where on earth is the CD version...
22:35:37 <alise> All this floppy crap!
22:35:57 <Gregor> http://filmcow.com/binotheelephant.html ONE THOUSAND TIMES YES FOREVER
22:36:01 <alise> The Windows 9x Project (95 OSR2.5, 98, 98SE, and ME)
22:36:16 <cpressey> HALT at 0c3ecd00d: Workgroup Dragon has eaten Printer Wizard
22:36:27 <pikhq> alise: It does indeed suck.
22:36:36 <alise> Gregor: WHAT IS THIS
22:36:51 <Gregor> alise: By the guy who made Charlie the Unicorn.
22:37:15 <alise> "Yes, Meredith, I've sent an elephant to Hell, it's science stuff you wouldn't understand."
22:38:10 <alise> "Pooping! I've been poo-ping! A looo~t." ...this thing is going to be all quotes, isn't it?
22:38:24 <Gregor> alise: But not entirely.
22:38:52 <alise> "I think you've found the CHAMBER OF MISERY!" "Oh, good, how do I get in it."
22:41:50 <alise> Gregor: Please tell me there will be a sequel.
22:42:00 <Gregor> Probably. No guarantees, I am not the Film Cow.
22:42:04 <alise> Hey, a Vanilla the Plastic Snowman reference!
22:42:08 <alise> You don't see that every day.
22:42:24 <Gregor> But Llamas with Hats got sequels, and it's not as funny.
22:42:39 -!- Gregor has set topic: We are doing science SO HARD right now. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
22:43:02 -!- alise has set topic: The flower... is crawling... up my urethra... | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
22:43:07 <alise> Clearly the more relevant quote for this channel.
22:43:24 <Gregor> Needs more screamycaps.
22:43:28 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: http://filmcow.com/binotheelephant.html
22:43:35 <alise> Gregor: But he said it so resignedly!
22:43:49 <alise> pikhq: using D: helps not, it still can't finderate the filia.
22:44:05 -!- Gregor has set topic: The flower ... is climbing ... ... UP MY URETHRAAAAAAAA ... and singing! | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
22:44:13 <alise> Gregor: "Bino's journey into hell begins!"
22:44:17 -!- Gregor has set topic: The flower ... is crawling ... ... UP MY URETHRAAAAAAAA ... and singing! | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
22:44:54 <alise> What... did you change?
22:45:32 <alise> pikhq: I can't find the fuzucking torrentsimo!
22:45:48 <alise> http://www.torrentz.com/ad773aa9319cded389aff39b6989df7547af0eeb Inexplicable CD contents
22:46:37 <alise> http://www.torrentz.com/e77df637b08d16b8a346804780f05299dd034400
22:46:38 <alise> http://www.torrentz.com/8deb7a5f6e0b48ba68199ac699b13e7646c20f35
22:51:43 <Gregor> Science, Bino. Speculative science!
22:54:45 <alise> "Either way, she's a spanking good witch" --DMM on Hermione Granger, Irregular Webcomic! cast list, making everyone feel vaguely uncomfortable
22:55:32 <Phantom_Hoover> DMM: the last person you'd expect to make you feel uncomfortable.
22:56:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Except for in that exact "have a gay old time" sense that only the profoundly non-discomforting can achieve.
23:04:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Incidentally, did anyone else look at his raytracing work?
23:05:06 * pikhq comes to the conclusion that per-app WINE prefixes is the *only* way to use WINE.
23:05:57 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Where it stores the C drive, WINE configuration, and registry.
23:06:33 <pikhq> Because sometimes you need to do funky stuff to get a program running.
23:06:44 <pikhq> And Windows programs are notorious for interfering with each other.
23:07:43 <pikhq> Oh, and Windows programs are effectively impossible to fully install.
23:08:09 <pikhq> But, if each Windows program is in its own self-contained world, it's just a matter of rm
23:10:16 <cpressey> HALT at 0x98a1d1ed: Dungeon Update is missing DLLs and Manacles
23:18:46 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Windows programs spew shit everywhere.
23:21:09 -!- zzo38 has joined.
23:22:30 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:24:40 <Phantom_Hoover> I still want to know how an arbitrary point on the Sierpiński Gasket can be identified.
23:30:10 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: the limit of a series of Hanoi coin flips
23:30:29 <cpressey> I realize this is circular for your goal! Ha!
23:30:52 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hanoi#Graphical_representation
23:31:36 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: oh -- I thought it was the random thing you were doing
23:32:00 <Phantom_Hoover> I have no idea whatsoever how this might be accomplished
23:32:45 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: I doubt there is a way to identify a point in an infinitely detailed structure without giving an infinite "path"
23:33:04 <cpressey> either up, or down, depending on how you build the gasket, as we discussed (sort of)
23:33:10 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: it's a fractal
23:33:19 <cpressey> There is no point at which you can't zoom in
23:33:37 <Phantom_Hoover> In which case, I think identification might be easy enough with an infinite stream of trits.
23:33:49 <cpressey> Is pretty much what I just said.
23:34:02 <cpressey> In fact, could be bits, from what I understand
23:34:24 <Phantom_Hoover> No, has to be trits, since the repeating unit is repeated 3 times.
23:34:42 <cpressey> If you start at one of the corners, then flip a coin, then move to halfway between the corner you were just on, and one of the other two corners (becomes the new "corner you're on"), you approach the gasket.
23:34:56 <cpressey> I read this in a magazine once.
23:35:07 <cpressey> And I must be remembering it correctly.
23:35:35 <cpressey> So you only need bits -- the series of flips in an infinite Chaos game -- to identify a point.
23:36:04 <cpressey> Isn't it one of the corners you're not currently on?
23:36:15 <cpressey> I could easily be misremembering that part.
23:39:26 <Phantom_Hoover> My algorithm was more or less "number each subtriangle, select the one corresponding to the current trit, lather, rinse, repeat."
23:40:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Which is more or less the floating-point of Sierpiński representation.
23:42:29 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: you do realise an infinite stream of bits = an infinite stream of trits, right?
23:43:30 <alise> i was gonna make that joke, also you forgot the closing /
23:43:33 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:43:40 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: ofc R^2 has all the points inside, it just has a lot of points outside too :)
23:44:31 <Phantom_Hoover> So taking C to be pairs of reals, quarter-imaginary is the logical equivalent of binary.
23:45:04 <alise> Slereah: Phantom_Hoover wouldn't know about the tit positioning of the sierpinski triangle anyway, being a gay vampire and all
23:45:46 <fungot> alise: or use integer arithmetic. chicken performs *much* faster with fixnum optimizations.
23:46:28 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
23:46:34 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: yes, indeed. in fact, extremely difficult and sometimes tragic summer that we have a responsibility, although by a small oligarchy that is cut off from any hope of access even to the persecution of all political decision-makers. all this serves to enrich and complete the picture, we must take account of the new developments in the balkans.
23:53:46 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Do you read Irregular Webcomic?
23:54:35 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I do, but sporadically (irregular, one might say); I'm thinking about reading it. From #1. To present day.
23:54:42 <alise> Tell me how crazy I am!
23:54:58 <Phantom_Hoover> I did it a year ago, but that's not too big a difference.
23:55:21 -!- zzo38 has set topic: I have nice flowers! They even talk! But I want to win a big spider! | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
23:55:39 <Phantom_Hoover> What, doesn't everyone archive binge when they find an interesting webcomic?
23:55:51 <alise> Let's see. If it takes me seven seconds to read, digest, laugh at, and read and digest the annotations of, and then go on to the comic after, one single comic -- a ridiculously low estimate, most likely -- then it'd take five and a half hours, without breaks, to read all the comics. And that's if I did it all before the next comic is posted.
23:55:55 <alise> Methinks it is a multiple-day endeavour.
23:56:06 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: I do when there aren't 2812 freakin' stripts!
23:56:32 <alise> I once tried to archive-binge User Friendly. I think I covered about five years or something.
23:56:53 <alise> cpressey: I had faulty humour receptors.
23:57:06 <Phantom_Hoover> I once calculated that on Archive Binge's highest setting, it would take 333 days to read all of Schlock Mercenary.
23:57:07 <cpressey> But as long as we're confessing, I archive-binged Sluggy Freelance once.
23:57:16 <alise> Sluggy -- isn't that the one written by a Mormon?
23:57:31 <alise> Or was that Schlock Mercenary?
23:57:37 <cpressey> alise: It's possible. I don't track the religious beliefs of webcomic authors.
23:57:41 <alise> God, who even cares about all these shitty comics.
23:57:51 <alise> cpressey: Mormons are a bit weirder than pure religion :)
23:57:59 <alise> Produced Twilight, too! I'm sure that book commits all kinds of sins.
23:58:02 <alise> Like "don't be awful".
23:58:35 <alise> I could deal with plain mormon, but I hate missionaries with a fiery passion.
23:58:56 <Phantom_Hoover> I don't believe for a second that Meyer wrote down her erotic vampire dreams.
23:59:13 <alise> Matz was a Mormon missionary, which makes me sad as he's a really nice guy.
23:59:20 <alise> Thankfully, I don't like Ruby nearly as much as I used to, so it's no issue!
23:59:28 <Phantom_Hoover> It's clearly insidiously crafted to worm its way into teenage girls' minds.
23:59:29 -!- augur has joined.
23:59:32 <cpressey> totally, she dictated them to her mother, who wrote them down
23:59:52 <cpressey> isn't larry wall something too?