00:06:43 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
00:07:23 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
00:15:58 -!- pikhq has joined.
00:16:19 <Gregor> Op. 11 string quartet is starting to sound actually GOOD!
00:17:35 <pikhq> Perhaps it'd sound better if you blackmailed a string quartet.
00:17:51 <Gregor> But I have no blackmail on string quartets :P
00:19:16 -!- Harpyon has joined.
00:23:10 <pikhq> Hmm. So, my high school had two Japanese teachers. One was fluent in Japanese. The other had once been in Japan for a couple of weeks.
00:23:17 <pikhq> Which one do you think they fired? Go on, guess.
00:25:22 <Gregor> The fluent one has to be payed more because he's more skilled.
00:25:26 <Gregor> Therefore, he should be fired.
00:25:31 <Gregor> Because firing him saves more money.
00:25:40 <Gregor> This is the same reason why you cut music instead of PE.
00:25:58 <pikhq> Oh, and the guy who had once been in Japan was fluent in German.
00:26:11 <Gregor> Does he teach German too?
00:26:12 <pikhq> Guess what language he no longer teaches!
00:27:28 <Gregor> Then they don't have to pay him as a skilled German teacher, only a unskilled Japanese teacher :P
00:28:17 <pikhq> And I get to wince at the idea of students taking a year to learn kana.
00:29:22 <pikhq> (KANA IS FREAKING EASY)
00:31:07 <pikhq> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Kana_chart.png Do you think it should take a year to learn this?
00:31:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:31:31 <Gregor> It would take me decades.
00:31:47 <pikhq> I highly doubt that.
00:32:00 <Gregor> I think you underestimate my inability to learn foreign languages.
00:32:08 <Gregor> Also my ability to correctly use subtle double-negatives.
00:32:18 <pikhq> This has very little with foreign languages per se.
00:32:33 <pikhq> By which I mean "little doodles on paper".
00:32:53 <pikhq> Also, I highly doubt you have an actual inability to learn foreign languages.
00:33:05 <pikhq> Just an inability to put up with the bullshit that is your typical foreign language course.
00:33:34 <Gregor> I will soon have an upload of op. 11 string quartet I actually like.
00:33:39 <Gregor> I ... I don't even know how this is possible.
00:34:30 <pikhq> Seriously, foreign language classes usually *suck ass*.
00:35:13 <pikhq> (see Engrish for details)
00:38:37 <Gregor> I think that statement demeans ass-suckers everywhere.
00:39:12 <pikhq> Why yes, yes it does.
00:39:18 <catseye> So - there are 3 partitions. The recovery partition is it's own partition. The Windows partition is fux0red and I want to re-install it. Ubuntu is on the 3rd. Ubunto also has all the stuff I copied over from the non-bootable Windows partition, AND the R part of the DVD-R is broken, AND I don't have enough flash drive to put all of that stuff on.
00:39:53 <catseye> The recovery program warns me it will wipe out 'drive C:'. I hope this means the WIndows partition. ANd that it leaves partition #3 alone.
00:40:10 <Gregor> It means the entire disk.
00:40:24 <Gregor> I guarantee it with my Super-Pessimism Powers
00:40:24 <catseye> Including itself? I don't think THAT is the case.
00:41:50 <catseye> (well, I KNOW it's not the case, as I've used it before. but I didn't have anything on the 3rd partition at the time, so I don;t know what happens there)
00:41:57 <Gregor> But it probably reinitializes the partition table to its saved default.
00:44:13 <alise> pikhq: Let's see if I can't get this bitch of a game running.
00:45:06 <alise> pikhq: The "original" disc is the Sold-Out rerelease. Which is alright.
00:45:11 <alise> It's not original :P
00:45:16 <alise> But it does have the exact original installer on it.
00:45:27 <pikhq> It's at least something that was put on a disc at one point, though.
00:45:39 <alise> So was the Russian monstrosity.
00:46:03 <pikhq> Something *sane* that was put on disc.
00:46:51 <alise> pikhq: WOOT FULLSCREEN INSTALLER
00:47:05 <alise> pikhq: do not worry!
00:47:10 <alise> I have SCIENCE on my side.
00:48:54 <alise> pikhq: The installer starts!
00:49:03 <alise> Oh man this is the one with the radioactive hazard sign on the sheep.
00:49:07 <alise> (...just a graphic when it installs.)
00:49:26 <alise> Lawl, it installs so quickly that you barely see it.
00:51:58 <Gregor> http://codu.org/tmp/GRegor-op11-StringQuartet-VSTi-2010-10-10.ogg
00:53:48 <alise> pikhq: Now I just gotta get NoCD working and see about DirectDraw.
00:54:17 <alise> Worms: Armageddon v3.6.29.0 Beta [EURO] No-CD/Fixed EXE #2
00:54:19 <alise> Worms: Armageddon v3.6.29.0 Beta [EURO] No-CD/Fixed EXE #1
00:54:21 <alise> I LIKE HOW IT DOESN'T DISTINGUISH THEM
00:59:50 <alise> coppro: I have it almost working!
00:59:57 <alise> Just need to find an updated DirectDraw and I'll have a complete guide.
01:00:12 <coppro> I have a win7 one. That's probably wrong, right?
01:00:22 <alise> coppro: Dude, I gave you a direct link to a torrent.
01:00:25 <alise> That is the *only one* that will work.
01:00:33 <coppro> alise: I mean the directdraw dll
01:00:34 <pikhq> alise: Hmm. Need a Windows DirectDraw?
01:00:36 <alise> In fact, me and pikhq gave you a link to the same torrent simultaneously, right after you asked.
01:00:44 <alise> pikhq: it's a patched WINE one
01:00:54 <alise> don't worry, i got this under control :P
01:01:09 <alise> [[madewokherd has stopped updating ddraw.dll for new Wine versions. Instead, he recommends to: grab the patch attached to wine bug 2082, apply the wined3d part, build wine (if someone wants to precompile them, wined3d.dll can presumably be dropped in like ddraw was, but the wined3d api changes often), set DirectDrawRenderer to "gdi"]]
01:01:17 <pikhq> Aaaaw. Windows DirectDraw is so much easier to get.
01:01:32 <alise> wanna compile wine?!
01:01:53 <alise> pikhq: but you were going to anyway :P
01:02:00 <Gregor> I compiled wine yesterday.
01:02:14 <pikhq> I compiled it once today. That's enough.
01:02:19 <alise> Gregor: With that specific patch?
01:02:37 <alise> http://bugs2.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=17739
01:02:39 <alise> Look how small it is!
01:02:45 <alise> YOU JUST WANT TO COMPILE IT
01:03:51 <alise> what, how come it works fullscreen but not in a window.
01:05:01 <Gregor> Gaaaaaaad, from 5:30 on it's totally real.
01:05:20 <alise> coppro: Compile Wine.
01:05:41 <alise> Gregor: The good kind of dark magic, i.e. light magic.
01:05:43 <Gregor> Pooppy can't solve all your problems!
01:06:19 <coppro> alise: You just told me not to do that
01:06:32 <alise> coppro: In this case, there's an excellent reason to.
01:06:36 <alise> coppro: *Not* to use the created Wine.
01:06:40 <alise> But for one specific DLL.
01:06:42 <pikhq> Gregor: My goodness, it sounds like music.
01:06:52 <coppro> alise: q1) Must I apply that patch?
01:07:06 <coppro> q2) Give me the necessary git commands to checkout the repo version and I'll do it
01:07:07 <alise> coppro: You must. Hey wait, I have an idea.
01:07:10 <alise> "> Here is compiled wined3d.dll.so for wine 1.2 with this patch. Enjoy!"
01:07:11 <pikhq> Synthesised, to be sure, but... Good.
01:07:13 <alise> 1.2 is almost 1.3, right?
01:07:15 <alise> Let me try that one.
01:07:16 <Gregor> The section from 7min is downright haunting.
01:07:24 <alise> your mom is downright haunting
01:07:28 <pikhq> alise: ... Wait, you're needing d3d.dll?
01:07:38 <coppro> alise: if it doesn't work, I repeat my comment about git
01:07:39 <alise> pikhq: wined3d.dll. PATCHED.
01:07:53 <Gregor> pikhq: Actually IMHO the main reason it's noticeably synthesized is the usual synth "too perfect" problem.
01:08:09 <alise> 0% [ ] 13,820 3.02K/s eta 11m 13s
01:08:12 <alise> Yay two meg files that take five years to download
01:08:13 <pikhq> Gregor: Also, the high bit kinda sucks.
01:08:14 <alise> Oh now it's sped up
01:08:19 <pikhq> alise: Any reason the real d3d.dll won't work?
01:08:26 <alise> pikhq: Because it's a hacky patch that breaks most things.
01:08:30 <alise> tl;dr wine is shit, this hack fixes it
01:08:34 <Gregor> pikhq: You mean the solo violin held note?
01:08:42 <Gregor> pikhq: Yeah, it's awful :P
01:08:52 <Gregor> pikhq: But everything surrounding that is awesome! X-P
01:08:54 <pikhq> Gregor: Sounds more like a viola. But yeah.
01:09:02 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor he hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh simpleacro slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg
01:11:13 <cpressey> i agree, it sounds a bit more realstruments
01:11:38 <alise> http://ibiblio.org/pub/linux/system/emulators/wine/wine-1.3.4.tar.bz2
01:11:43 <alise> Apply this patch: http://bugs2.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=17739
01:12:05 <alise> and extract wined3d.dll(maybe .so after that)
01:12:09 <alise> Upload it somewhere
01:12:36 <pikhq> Gregor: This is reminding me once again that you make awesome music. :P
01:16:17 <pikhq> Gregor: Also, how goes Opus 13 Movement 2?
01:16:42 <Gregor> pikhq: I can't play it 8'(
01:16:46 <alise> coppro: are you actually doing that? :P
01:16:55 <Gregor> When I make the "final" recording I like to actually play it through, no severe edits, properly.
01:17:04 <Gregor> Every time I've tried, I've screwed up horribly somewhere.
01:17:20 <pikhq> YOU NEED BETTER HANDS
01:17:34 <alise> pikhq: Ping coppro.
01:18:02 <pikhq> coppro: CONSIDER THYSELF PIN
01:18:11 <pikhq> coppro: CONSIDER THYSELF PINGÉD
01:18:31 <alise> Consider thyself the pin thou art.
01:20:25 <alise> coppro: You know, your only hope of getting this guide today is to do that :P
01:21:03 <pikhq> alise: Oh, fine, fine.
01:21:06 <alise> "[NEXT CONTEST] What will THIS post's point count be midnight on Monday? Winner gets free copy of TF2, Minecraft, or donation satisfaction."
01:21:15 <alise> <alise> http://ibiblio.org/pub/linux/system/emulators/wine/wine-1.3.4.tar.bz2
01:21:16 <alise> <alise> Apply this patch: http://bugs2.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=17739
01:21:20 <alise> <alise> and extract wined3d.dll(maybe .so after that)
01:21:22 <alise> <alise> Upload it somewhere
01:21:35 <alise> Note: Do not use the resulting compilation; that patch is evil and it breaks more applications than it fixes.
01:21:41 <alise> It is useful solely for the extraction.
01:22:18 <pikhq> ./configure&&make -j3, away!
01:22:45 <pikhq> Dang, that is one evil patch.
01:22:47 <alise> pikhq: You trust wine with -j3?
01:22:53 <alise> I treat Wine like nuclear waste.
01:23:10 <alise> It is possibly one of the most perverse pieces of software ever.
01:23:22 <pikhq> We'll soon see if I shouldn't.
01:23:31 <alise> "Let's clean-room rewrite an entire, crufty, backwards-compatible-to-the-80s operating system's entire library base! For Linux!"
01:23:40 <alise> "Also, let's handle all the crazy direct hardware shit it has too!"
01:23:51 <alise> "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH OH GOD WHAT IS THIS"
01:24:10 <alise> pikhq: I like how it doesn't even bother dedenting the block.
01:24:18 <alise> It's just, like, "yeah, sure, whatever, {...} is perfectly valid."
01:25:05 <pikhq> alise: I find it quite impressive that it actually supports *all* the Win16 stuff.
01:25:33 <alise> I basically wish Windows software would go away so I don't have to be scared by Wine.
01:25:41 <alise> It is not my kind of program.
01:26:02 <pikhq> Wine is the single hackiest thing I know of.
01:26:13 <pikhq> ... Especially its Win16 support on x86_64.
01:26:22 <Gregor> More hacky than Windows itself? ;)
01:26:55 <alise> The Windows API at least makes some sort of sense in a kernel, on bare hardware.
01:27:13 <pikhq> It relies upon how no published Win16 program actually *used* its ability to write on all memory.
01:27:31 <pikhq> So, it runs Win16 programs in actual protected mode.
01:27:56 <pikhq> 16-bit protected mode.
01:28:25 <catseye> visions of sugarplums dance in my head!
01:28:30 <Gregor> That's pretty great on an OS that has no 16-bit binary support itself.
01:28:52 <pikhq> (it convinces the Linux kernel to set up the segment table *just* right on the wineserver process)
01:29:43 <pikhq> On 32-bit Linux, it just does the whole psuedo-real mode thing and traps the interrupts. Just like everything newer than Windows 3.0 does for Win16 and DOS.
01:31:15 <alise> pikhq: This is why Wine scares me.
01:31:53 <pikhq> alise: And yet its Win16 support is the least hackish bit.
01:32:12 <pikhq> Because most of the behavior (and essentially all of the relevant behavior) is actually known.
01:32:56 <alise> pikhq: How goes that compilation?
01:33:33 <pikhq> alise: So, um. This wined3d.dll.so. I hope it doesn't need to go in the system install of WINE.
01:34:24 <alise> pikhq: It does not.
01:34:29 <alise> pikhq: filebin.ca if you have it
01:34:58 <alise> I have to go in about six minutes, so yeah, quickness is nice.
01:34:58 <calamari> has anyone tried some kind of qemu hybrid, where the program is run in qemu, but the wm is intercepted so that X displayed the windows?
01:35:38 <alise> calamari: that's called qemu + vnc server or whatever
01:35:54 <pikhq> Wondering if it'll cooperate.
01:36:22 <pikhq> Uploading at... Slow.
01:36:50 <calamari> alise: so that would act like wine, where i could run windows apps in X?
01:36:50 <alise> pikhq: How big's it?
01:36:52 <alise> Also, stop that torrent.
01:37:04 <alise> calamari: Very slowly and with little to no keyboard integration.
01:37:17 <pikhq> 20 kbps; should be a couple minutes.
01:37:17 <alise> pikhq: Hurry uuup I have to go and I'd like to make sure it works first.
01:37:20 <Gregor> calamari: Closest you'll get is VirtualBox's "seamless" (is that the name?) mode.
01:37:27 <Gregor> Well, closest you'll get without X forwarding.
01:37:50 <pikhq> Seamless mode sucks.
01:37:53 <calamari> I got a game in my cereal box and I want to run it lol
01:38:02 <pikhq> It just makes the desktop transparent.
01:38:15 <alise> Parallels' seamless mode is ebtter
01:38:17 <alise> But that's a mac thing.
01:38:21 <alise> `addquote <calamari> I got a game in my cereal box and I want to run it lol
01:38:43 <alise> pikhq: I'm already totally late at sleeping my friend, do not taunt happy fun Worms player.
01:38:44 <pikhq> alise: http://filebin.ca/gsmdxg/wined3d.dll.so
01:38:45 <HackEgo> 238|<calamari> I got a game in my cereal box and I want to run it lol
01:39:10 <Gregor> calamari: Also, wine. It's, y'know, the topic of conversation here for the last day X-P
01:39:17 -!- Harpyon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
01:39:34 <calamari> the game wanted 16-bit color mode
01:39:45 <alise> pikhq: It almost works!
01:39:47 <alise> Menu works it crashes.
01:39:50 <catseye> calamari: what kind of cereal are YOU eating?
01:40:01 <calamari> catseye: store brand, believe it or not
01:40:09 <Gregor> Did you get this game in a cereal box fifteen years ago?
01:40:52 <alise> pikhq: Everything but playing an actual game works.
01:41:19 <alise> pikhq: Do not despair! I will get it working.
01:41:37 <alise> pikhq: My current great-great terrible idea is to compile wine <1.0, which I know to have worked in the past.
01:41:52 <alise> But hey, it logs into WormNET.
01:42:33 <alise> That doesn't look like WormNET.
01:42:48 <calamari> alise: btw how does a vnc server help.. wouldn't that just show the entire desktop, same as regular qemu?
01:43:02 <alise> but windows doesn't do X
01:43:06 <alise> if it's a game it won't be in a window anyway
01:44:05 <alise> pikhq: Well, you know what?
01:44:13 <alise> pikhq: I'll have a guide and something working by tomorrow.
01:44:16 <alise> Thanks for your help.
01:44:21 <catseye> vnc-like (-based?) conferencing tool
01:44:47 <catseye> tends to freak out when two users are both "the presenter"
01:44:57 <catseye> infinite recursion of desktop display
01:45:53 <alise> i like such recursion.
01:45:59 <alise> and pointing cameras at their display
01:46:13 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:54:22 <Gregor> pikhq: http://codu.org/music/op11/GRegor-op11-StringQuartet.flac Quell thy FLACitude.
02:06:00 <catseye> (Pair S (Pair I (Pair I (Pair K K))),"")
02:06:26 <catseye> this is quite a bit trickier than the actual reduction part, it seems
02:08:34 -!- cimon has joined.
02:22:28 <catseye> (Pair (Pair (Pair (Pair S S) I) I) K,[])
02:22:37 <catseye> Better! DOesn't handle parens yet though.
02:26:15 <Gregor> HTML5 Audio should have a "pipe raw audio here" function.
02:26:31 <Gregor> Then you could write decoders in JS and not be stuck to a format.
02:31:29 <catseye> (Pair (Pair S S) (Pair (Pair I I) K),"")
02:33:01 <catseye> http://pastie.org/1212086 <-- my awful code
02:34:06 <Gregor> catseye, cpressey: Is there a reason you're having an identity crisis?
02:34:25 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
02:34:33 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving).
02:34:47 <catseye> Gregor: the reason is weechat
02:38:12 -!- cimon has left (?).
02:38:24 <Gregor> Obviously we didn't excite cimon too much :P
02:39:19 <Quadlex> ten again, esoteria can alienate the normal and benign
02:39:39 <Quadlex> Also, those who don't like madness or tentacles, c.f. Cthulhu
02:40:56 <Gregor> (Obscure Spanish pun intentional)
02:41:11 <Quadlex> One of my favourite chunks of The Goon Show
02:47:23 <catseye> "It's a fast, statically typed, compiled language that feels like a dynamically typed, interpreted language."
02:47:37 <catseye> ... it's actually not a very nice feeling...
02:48:20 <catseye> I'm going to check out Plof instead.
02:51:58 <pikhq> Which is a runtime defined language. :)
02:53:01 <catseye> Which FEELS like a runtime defined languag!
02:53:18 <catseye> or did, until I just got the error message, "Cast failed
02:55:20 <catseye> Argh Gregor makin' me install autoconf
02:56:00 <Gregor> Did you download plof3, or Fythe?
02:57:16 <catseye> Gregor: hg clone https://codu.org/projects/plof/hg/ plof
02:57:22 <catseye> Do you recomment Fythe instead?
02:57:42 <Gregor> Plof3 works, Fythe is but the fevered dream of a madman :P
02:58:01 <pikhq> Well, Fythe has working parts.
02:58:18 <catseye> Gregor: configure.ac:7: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE
02:58:41 <Gregor> catseye: Don't blame autoconf on the fact that you don't have automake installed :P
02:58:45 <catseye> IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE IN THE SYMBOL TABLE. i can't be arsed to check
02:58:59 <Gregor> 'snot a symbol table, 's a macro expansion.
02:59:11 <Gregor> That message means "This looks like it's probably a macro"
02:59:11 <catseye> automake is already the newest version.
02:59:31 <Gregor> Then somehow autoconf and automake aren't happy with each other.
02:59:35 <Gregor> What command did you use? autoreconf?
02:59:51 <pikhq> There's your problem.
03:00:06 <catseye> There's an autoREconf? oh fuck computers are amazing
03:00:36 <Gregor> autoreconf, in spite of its poor name, is a frontend for the whole autosuite.
03:00:42 <catseye> whoa I have a configure script now
03:01:20 <catseye> if it doesn't know if it's a macro or what, the message should be "possiblE undefined macro".
03:02:23 <catseye> "or maybe you are write stupid code in your .ac and will face FULL LIFE CONSEQUENCES!"
03:03:23 <Gregor> error: possibly undefined macro: FULL_LIFE_CONSEQUENCES
03:04:30 <Gregor> Incidentally, you might enjoy Fythe, when/iff it exists :P
03:04:47 <catseye> Gregor: I have it built, but make install didn
03:04:54 <catseye> didn't install a binary? or
03:07:12 <catseye> output is line buffered i see
03:07:34 <catseye> Gregor: how do I find out what methods Stdin supports?
03:07:43 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
03:08:00 <catseye> #1 stupid problem of picking up a language: the common operations always have their own names
03:08:37 <oklopol> "<cpressey> actually seems pretty close to the "non-repeating sequence <-> unbounded storage" thing... to have a non-self-similar fractal, you essentially need a non-repeating sequence" <<< almost all sequences are non-repeating with the usual measure
03:08:58 <catseye> So it does NOT support multiplication. OK!
03:09:26 <catseye> oklopol: yes. but almost all sequences can't be generated.
03:10:12 <catseye> "Welcome to the universe! It's mostly chaos! And YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY."
03:11:12 <oklopol> in fact let's prove that: a periodic sequence will have the period n for some n, {x | x has period n} is a finite set, so it has zero measure with a nontrivial measure; therefore the union as n goes to infinity will also have zero measure by subadditivity
03:12:16 <catseye> i think the original question hung on whether any of these non-self-similar (or even uncomputable, let's extend it to) things had fractional dimension (i.e. were fractals); i don't see why not but have no way to show it
03:13:20 <oklopol> i couldn't find the original
03:14:47 <oklopol> well clearly you can just change one point and make it non-self-similar
03:15:50 <catseye> i think it was Phantom_Hoover who brought it up. Not sure exactly what he had in mind (since there are a couple of ways to define fractal measures, iirc)
03:16:02 <oklopol> yeah i just know hausdorff dimension
03:18:02 <oklopol> where you partition into sets S, compute x^d's where d is your dimension and x \in S, and sum up
03:18:07 <catseye> |{x | x has period n}| = ω
03:18:09 <oklopol> probably all the details are wrong
03:18:30 <oklopol> oh do we have an infinite alphabet
03:18:32 <catseye> it's not infinite but it's... not finite either
03:18:45 <catseye> but n can go as large as you like
03:19:17 <oklopol> no n is fixed; if it's not, then the set is countably infinite
03:20:24 <oklopol> i woke up at 5 am so i could do my homework
03:20:35 <oklopol> maybe i should consider doing that
03:20:46 <oklopol> unless there's more math to do here
03:20:52 <oklopol> at least i'm checking hausdorff measure
03:22:55 <oklopol> you take the infimum over all such covers where all diameters are smaller than a delta, and THEN you let delta go to zero
03:23:53 <oklopol> so the function delta -> this thing is increasing because less ways to cover are permitted
03:24:40 <oklopol> and then comes in le magic: turns out just one d value can give you a nontrivial measure for any set (iirc)
03:25:51 <catseye> mostly adventure games disguised as math
03:25:59 <oklopol> okay so what i said was correct, but what i meant was not, lucky me for using such vague language
03:27:30 <oklopol> or actually i guess i meant roughly correctly too
03:27:41 <oklopol> aaaaaanyway it's pretty cool this stuff here
03:28:11 <oklopol> i mean that would mean ANY metric space has a w.d. hausdorff dimension
03:30:59 <oklopol> SERIOUSLY HOW COOL IS THAT?!?
03:31:10 <oklopol> come on people get excited
03:31:41 <catseye> i'm as excited as my understanding of the material allows!
03:32:31 <oklopol> "<catseye> oh n is fixed" <<< union as n goes to infinity meant \union_{n->infty} {x | x has period n}, so it should have been clear n was fixed!
03:33:00 <oklopol> pfft understanding, you don't have to understand when you have a definition
03:36:49 <oklopol> so why is this an outer measure... obviously empty set has measure zero, obviously subadditive using the usual 1/2^n proof, obviously monotone because same covers work for smaller set, and... wait that was all :D
03:37:49 <oklopol> monotone being A subset B => m(A) <= m(B), subadd. being m(A union B) <= m(A) + m(B) but for countable unions instead of just two
03:38:28 <coppro> what are we discussting here?
03:38:34 <coppro> it seems like interesting math
03:38:57 <catseye> measures of sets of periodic sequences, I *think*
03:39:58 * coppro gets back to proving things about the divisibility of the Mersenne numbers
03:40:32 <oklopol> the 1/2^n proof is as follows: sum of all e/2^n is just e, so if A = union {A_n}, for any e, we take covers for A_n such that the cover of A_i is of size at most m(A_i) + e/2^i, this is possible because m(A_i) is defined as an infimum over all covers, so you can get arbitrarily close; then you sum up you get a cover for A that's at most e bigger than sum_{i->infty} {m(A_i)}
03:40:45 <oklopol> oh and we do this for each delta separately ofc
03:41:14 <oklopol> deltas being that weird number we used in the definition of hd measure
03:41:50 <oklopol> catseye: no now i'm just proving random things.
03:43:11 <oklopol> what i proved was that the hausdorff measure is an "outer measure", which is almost a measure but a bit less demanding
03:45:13 <oklopol> and an outer measure is actually really simple to get, because they arise from almost any kind of covering definition
04:00:40 <catseye> yay 10 pm on arbitrarily-numbered dat
04:06:34 <catseye> In 5 minute's it will be 10:10 oh boy oh boy can't wait
04:06:45 <pikhq> Get a better time zone, you.
04:13:46 <catseye> it will come again in... A THOUSAND YEARS?
04:16:21 <Gregor> Or, a much better day will come in a year and a month and a day and an hour and a minute and a second.
04:17:06 <pikhq> Get your time machine.
04:17:29 * pikhq fetches his. Gets 3600 seconds/hour!
04:17:50 <pikhq> Reverse is broken, though.
04:18:37 -!- antivigilante has joined.
04:18:52 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
04:18:52 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-fried_pizza I LOVE YOU SCOTLAND
04:18:59 -!- cal153 has joined.
04:20:21 <catseye> "A common accompanying beverage is Irn-Bru, a carbonated soft drink."
04:21:00 <catseye> (it contains three different artificial sweeteners, if memory serves)
04:22:44 -!- lament has joined.
04:43:07 <oklopol> and so i told him if he can't get his penis to behave, they're just gonna have to make him pay extra
04:45:08 -!- augur has joined.
04:45:28 <oklopol> but he just kept on sticking that thing everywhere, and i mean EVERYWHERE
04:52:08 * augur sticks it in oklopol
04:54:49 <oklopol> i'll respond when someone joins.
04:54:59 <oklopol> WELL I GUESS YOU JUST DID HUH
04:57:31 <oklopol> and that guy i aws talking about
04:57:39 <Gregor> And yourself, apparently.
04:57:57 <Gregor> The anthropomorphic cigarettes of the world forgive you.
04:58:16 <oklopol> why did lament have to apologize to himself?
04:58:33 <Gregor> <oklopol> apologize <lament> to whom? <oklopol> me and lament
04:58:36 <lament> i didn't apologize to myself
05:02:09 <Gregor> I was distracted by imagining you-slash-augur.
05:02:17 <Gregor> (With the emphasis on the slash)
05:02:25 <oklopol> lament: please apologize to GreaseMonkey
05:03:48 <GreaseMonkey> i suggest you set your tab complete on "most recent"
05:03:58 <Gregor> GreaseMonkey: You have committed the crime of having your nick start with 'Gr' :P
05:05:45 <oklopol> GreaseMonkey: i would never do that, because it's not possible for someone to be stupid enough to make an irc client that uses alphabetical order
05:06:17 <oklopol> also what GreaseMonkey erm Gregor said
05:06:40 <oklopol> my dog seems to find braindrill interesting
05:06:56 <oklopol> or maybe it just wants to poop
05:07:50 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
05:07:54 -!- augur_ has joined.
05:12:32 <catseye> weechat's tab complete seems to default to 'most recent'
05:13:23 <Gregor> c[tab] = it gives a disambiguation list and doesn't complete at all
05:13:34 <Gregor> o[tab][tab] = olsner, for what it's worth
05:13:44 <Gregor> olsner: HI YOU TOTALLY WANTED TO BE PINGED
05:15:25 <catseye> so how do I find that one Chopin tune I really like
05:15:37 <catseye> It was in a ST:TNG episode once!
05:15:50 <lament> you can probably find it from that
05:15:58 <lament> or you can hum it and send me a recording
05:16:10 <catseye> well, it's not Noc. 20, and not Op. 9, i know that much now
05:16:46 <pikhq> catseye: Hit Memory Alpha.
05:16:49 <catseye> http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Chopin
05:17:05 <catseye> it was background music, though
05:18:58 <catseye> maybe i'll just have to borrow a compilation of his etudes from the library again
05:19:17 <pikhq> I'll just note that I'm the very model of a modern major general.
05:19:59 <catseye> "Chopin's second set of Études was published in 1837, and dedicated to Franz Liszt's mistress, Marie d'Agoult, the reasons for which are a matter of speculation."
05:21:50 <pikhq> The obvious conclusion!
05:22:23 <flippo> catseye, also get the Ballades, Preludes, and Nocturnes to be safe
05:22:48 <catseye> I'm *pretty* sure I encountered it in his etudes. Not 100% sure, so, yes.
05:22:58 <catseye> And WP does seem to have them all.
05:23:26 <catseye> but it's audio is not working for me now
05:26:46 <catseye> etudes: are they supposed to be difficult to play, or enjoyable? i guess both.
05:28:37 <pikhq> Huh. IPv6 makes mobile IP not suck.
05:28:49 <pikhq> So that one can have a roaming IP address.
05:30:40 <oklopol> simple puzzle: 6x6 grid, you're given domino tiles {(0, 0), (0, 1)} and {(0, 0), (1, 0)}, and you need to fill the grid in such a way that any line through the interior of the grid intersects a domino; possible?
05:33:42 <oklopol> i initially thought it was trivial, but took me ages to actually find concrete proof
05:34:31 <oklopol> (i'm not comfortable giving an upper bound)
05:34:35 <pikhq> (in mobile IPv4, packets to a roaming IP go to where they normally would be routed, and then those packets get wrapped and sent to the actual IP of the host by the "home agent". In IPv6, it works much the same except that every router is a home agent, and hosts are *expected* to be able to just wrap the packets themselves.)
05:37:54 <oklopol> the internet is such a mess
05:38:59 <pikhq> Retrofit on retrofit.
05:39:27 <pikhq> Oh, and shit hits the fan in a few months. Can't forget that.
05:40:48 <pikhq> IPv4 addresses all gone.
05:41:25 <oklopol> i hate the real world, all things should be designed from scratch, never on top of old stuff. i wish there was a god.
05:41:56 <pikhq> To be fair, IPv6 has a lot of it designed from scratch.
05:43:34 <catseye> well, i could not find it amongst the etudes, so maybe it is a nocturne. I do like this one though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89tude_Op._25,_No._11_(Chopin) and no. 6 is also nice
05:44:13 <oklopol> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=124PxX6XPCM&feature=related i like this one
05:44:40 <oklopol> seriously though i don't really get this music, yet at least
05:46:01 <lament> well it's boring and crappy
05:46:15 <oklopol> well this song is pretty simple
05:46:24 <catseye> "death metal so pungent it made my laptop reboot"
05:46:33 <catseye> i saved it by fiddling with the power cord
05:46:56 <oklopol> lament: you can actually tell that's random and not just complicated?
05:47:54 <oklopol> or you just think it's really simple?
05:48:10 <oklopol> the first riff is a pretty standard thing but i don't get the latter half
05:48:55 <pikhq> Liferea, you suck at podcasts SO HARD
05:49:02 <lament> some tech metal is really complicated, this is not it
05:49:07 <catseye> good rhythm fux0ring is hard to do well. i still think it's hard to beat Rush
05:49:13 <pikhq> "Hmm. He double-clicked on the file for a podcast. Let's *delete it and redownload it*."
05:50:04 <oklopol> the part after :40 sounds completely random to me
05:51:19 * pikhq goes with "Fuck you, I'll try compiling Miro."
05:52:01 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving).
05:54:16 <oklopol> lament: you don't happen to remember names of complicated tech bands? i chose this one because it's considered really insane.
05:54:40 <lament> i don't listen to metal
05:55:38 <oklopol> that first riff sounds like someone added whitenoise to dimmu borgir
05:56:04 <pikhq> lament: You should.
05:56:35 <lament> life is too short to listen to all the music in the world
05:56:36 <oklopol> lament: what do you think of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5_GzuM7ZiU ?
05:56:51 <pikhq> That's why you should be immortal.
05:56:55 <pikhq> Also, only the good music.
05:57:50 <oklopol> faceless is one of the few bands of this type i actually get, and still find them good
05:58:02 <oklopol> usually it's hours of listening and then realizing ah, it was crap all along
05:59:54 <oklopol> also i think i listen to this stuff because of the wrong reasons, because the same people who listen to these sensible ones listen to ones where you repeat the same riff for 5 minutes and the singer has a REALLY COOL GROWL.
06:00:07 <oklopol> maybe i should get better friends
06:11:38 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
06:12:15 <Ilari> Hah... Ocassionally this way too: "A is the best predictor for B". Yeah, probably, since B is _known_ to _cause_ A.
06:13:10 <Ilari> (and guess what field of "science" the example of this I ran into was from?)
06:15:38 <Gregor> That doesn't mean that A is the best predictor for B, since that statement alone doesn't say that nothing else causes A.
06:17:27 -!- augur has joined.
06:31:49 -!- Gregor has set topic: It is the nineties and there is time for esoteric topics in computing and programming languages. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
06:39:59 <pikhq> Aaand the Miro ebuild is the single most broken thing ever.
06:40:08 <pikhq> It essentially cannot build.
06:40:15 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
06:40:23 <pikhq> There is literally no configuration of Gentoo wherein it will build anymore.
06:40:35 <pikhq> That is so very fucked up.
06:52:10 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:52:36 -!- sftp has joined.
07:08:25 -!- sftp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
07:08:46 -!- tombom has joined.
07:13:11 -!- oerjan has joined.
07:14:45 <oerjan> <cpressey> @tell oerjan The problem with the "non-self-similar fractal" of a triangle, square, pentagon... is that as n gets large, n-gons do tend to look... well, similar.
07:16:36 <oerjan> in some sense the problem is that up to a given level of approximation, there are only a finite number of shapes.
07:17:56 <oerjan> say if by approximation you mean n*n bit pattern, only 2^(n*n) ones.
07:20:48 -!- zzo38 has joined.
07:21:03 -!- sftp has joined.
07:28:37 -!- sftp_ has joined.
07:29:25 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
07:29:30 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
07:31:26 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:34:09 -!- FireFly has joined.
07:50:33 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
07:53:36 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Error due to lack of fire and water.).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:09:25 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
08:10:18 -!- atrapado has joined.
08:15:28 <Vorpal> oerjan, what? xkcd is funny? *checks*
08:16:41 <Vorpal> wareya, new? you mean the last one?
08:16:52 <wareya> the one up as of today
08:19:34 <oerjan> (don't forget the hovertext)
08:23:59 <Vorpal> oerjan, of course not, what was Solomon known for again
08:25:25 <Vorpal> oerjan, but actually I'm agnostic :P
08:26:02 <Vorpal> as in, if they manage to scientifically prove any religion I'm prepared to accept that it might be a viable theory
08:26:09 <Vorpal> fat chance for that though :P
08:29:58 <Vorpal> the only religion I know of that comes even close to not contradicting most of what we scientifically know today is Buddhism.
08:30:30 <wareya> And that's why I would be a buddhist if I ever 'had to' pick a religion.
08:30:52 <wareya> There are some supernatural flavors of buddhism, though.
08:31:37 <Vorpal> wareya, hm? Well some of the seemingly supernatural stuff is stuff there is no evidence either way for. I mean, reincarnation, there is absolutely no proof in any direction there
08:31:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
08:32:17 <wareya> I mean the ones that worship the original buddha as a god, or that promise immediate effects of karma.
08:32:34 <Vorpal> hm okay, I wasn't aware of such variants
08:35:11 <Vorpal> wareya, in some aspects buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion I'd say
08:35:55 <Vorpal> but less so than many other ones
08:35:58 <wareya> even if it's philosophical instead of theistic
08:36:22 <Vorpal> wareya this is why I said "in some aspects"
08:37:50 <Vorpal> wareya, you are not one of those nick changers right?
08:38:02 * Vorpal keeps thinking that wareya must be warringal (sp?)
08:38:58 <Vorpal> those persistent nick changers are confusing. I mean, I just permanently changed nick once since I went on irc
08:39:00 <wareya> imagine a language where you can have negative sized variables
08:39:21 <Vorpal> wareya, I'd love to, but then I'll miss the bus to university. So bbl!
08:44:47 <lament> all kinds buddhism promise effects of karma
08:47:08 <wareya> That's why I said immediate
08:53:57 <lament> regardless of it being immediate or not that's a religious thing
08:54:32 <lament> or at least supernatural
08:55:11 <wareya> If the promises of karma's effects happen after reincarnation, then they're unarguable
09:00:34 <lament> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_characteristics_of_the_Buddha#The_32_Signs_of_the_Great_Man
09:25:41 <wareya> What about that, lament?
09:53:46 <Slereah> # His sexual organs are concealed in a sheath. It also produces smegma with a fragrant odour. (Pali: kosohitavatguyho).
09:58:43 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).