00:00:05 pikhq: I propose that we now talk about the services manager to stop us both going mad and to let me blab about Kitten more. 00:00:19 elliott: K 00:00:44 pikhq: Okay so... now I have to serialise my damn thoughts 00:01:28 pikhq: You know where you pass the runlevel to init? 00:01:30 In the kernel command line. 00:01:41 * Sgeo goes to install Portal 00:02:47 Clearly pikhq has no idea. 00:03:17 Clearly. 00:03:25 Let us kill pikhq, olsner! 00:03:28 He has NO IDEA. 00:05:22 I think pikhq's IRC client is so lagged that his reply isn't getting through because it's running under 10 QEMUs as part of his multilib torture test. 00:05:25 Discuss. 00:08:41 *Nested*. 00:08:52 pikhq: You know where you pass the runlevel to init? 00:08:52 In the kernel command line. 00:08:57 Let's see if he's remembered! 00:09:35 No. 00:09:39 Yes. 00:09:41 Maybe. 00:09:54 I appear to be writing a wind quintet for some reason. 00:09:57 pikhq: So, yes, clearly you do. 00:10:16 pikhq: Well, guess what? The service manager reappropriates the init argument for something else similar to runlevels but NOT. Isn't that AMAZING 00:10:47 elliott: Like? 00:11:15 pikhq: So, services, right? They are concrete things -- like a specific httpd or mail server -- but they can also be more abstract things. 00:11:33 pikhq: You can imagine a "consoles" service which is merely a dependency on eight gettys. 00:11:46 (Getty would be a metaservice, taking the tty as an argument. Seeing a pattern here?) 00:11:48 I need to put range notes on my keyboard >_> 00:11:55 "The bassoon does not go below this Bb" 00:12:09 pikhq: So, for instance, imagine a service "single-user", that depends on everything required to have the system in a single-user state. 00:12:22 pikhq: Then "cli", which would be a full, command-line system. 00:12:32 pikhq: Then "gui", which would start your login manager or whatever else you want. 00:12:38 elliott: Mmm. 00:12:41 pikhq: The argument to "init" -- actually the service manager -- is just *a service name*. 00:12:54 Give the kernel "gui", you get a GUI system. "cli", CLI. "single-user", guess. 00:12:56 elliott: Or list thereof? 00:13:01 pikhq: Or list thereof. 00:13:10 (But you're probably better off making your own service depending on that list.) 00:13:27 pikhq: And then, of course, it just starts that, which means starting all its dependencies concurrently, and then running its start script. 00:13:44 pikhq: It orders the total list of dependencies so that everything required is started up in the order it needs to be, as parallel as possible. 00:13:48 I'm thinking stuff like random need to start with a certain service just once. Granted, not likely to come up, but hey, you never know. 00:13:55 This applies even when you use ctl(8) to start and stop things after-the-fact. 00:14:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E8MJK4nlek what 00:14:59 "And I know... you're Saddam Hussein's... GRAND SON." 00:15:35 I am pretty sure this is a joke. 00:16:05 pikhq: Anyway, services would generally have more than just start/stop/restart/reload. 00:16:14 pikhq: Because... basically every action you might want to do should be a service action. 00:16:35 pikhq: Anything ending in "ctl" or anything done by a signal should be an action. 00:16:53 pikhq: I'm almost crazy enough to think that the package manager and service manager could be merged. 00:17:00 A package representing "this service is running". 00:17:04 Almost crazy enough. Not quite. 00:18:47 pikhq: You may now suggest things you want in the service manager. 00:19:25 pikhq: Oh yeah, and the service files would be files with actual syntax, not shell scripts made to do awful, awful things. 00:19:30 *will be 00:19:44 魔法(mahô)[magic] 00:19:48 pikhq: Sure, you'll probably have shell scripts in the actions, but that doesn't mean the service has to be one. 00:20:35 pikhq: Probably the structure will be /sv/foo/{some-name-signifying-that-it's-the-main-config-file,start,stop,some-action} 00:20:44 (Why have a top-level directory? Why not?) 00:22:54 http://www.thelocal.de/national/20101013-30455.html 00:23:03 Proof that it isn't just the US that's insane 00:23:46 "It's alright, Germany does it do!" 00:23:54 I imagine far more than 1/4 of Americans are xenophobic. 00:24:14 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:24:29 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:25:03 elliott: Republican party. 00:25:07 Need I say more? 00:25:09 Precisely :P 00:25:37 There may be some Republicans who are Republicans due to fiscal beliefs 00:25:42 My dad comes to mind 00:25:59 Right. Your dad is always a paragon of reasonability, you've certainly shown that... 00:26:51 -!- wareya has joined. 00:26:57 Sgeo: Problem being, the Republicans have the following fiscal beliefs: SPEND MONEY. CUT TAXES. DO LINES OFF A HOOKER'S ASS. 00:27:19 *DO LINES OFF A GAY MAN'S ASS IN A BATHROOM. DECRY HOMOSEXUALITY. 00:27:29 listen to pikhq, he is a man entirely without prejudices 00:27:36 elliott: That's not a fiscal belief, that's a social belief. 00:27:44 elliott: And I didn't say that the hooker was female. 00:27:50 pikhq: Doing lines off a hooker's ass is a fiscal belief? 00:28:02 elliott: You pay money for the lines of coke and the hooker. 00:28:05 So, yes. 00:28:07 oerjan: I'm not sure what you're trying to say :p 00:28:21 pikhq: No I don't. 00:28:33 elliott: s/You pay/One pays/ 00:28:42 I love "one". 00:28:44 It's so fucking pretentious. 00:28:55 si 00:28:59 coppro: ping 00:29:30 I love that word. 00:29:45 What, "si"? 00:29:48 s/^ // 00:29:52 That's not exactly an English word. 00:29:55 Is it "Yes" and I forgot to type the accent? Is it if? Is it actually Esperanto, and "one" 00:30:17 Or you're Italian. 00:30:20 Filthy Italians. 00:30:24 Gregor: That would have an accent. 00:30:25 pikhq: BTW, with all that gcc-cross stuff... 00:30:26 -!- Ilari has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:30:31 pikhq: Does pcc use the triples? 00:30:38 Presumably clang does. 00:30:46 elliott: Feh, which language has "si" with no accent, I'm pretty sure one does ... 00:30:58 Gregor: Your mom's. 00:31:17 elliott: i'm just futilely trying to use sarcasm to point out an excessive generalization of the type that i'm sure is part of what is currently poisoning the US political climate. 00:31:20 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 00:31:28 elliott: I *think* it does. 00:31:31 pikhq: You know that path-to-the-dynamic-linker thing? 00:31:33 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has joined. 00:31:38 Yeah? 00:31:41 Couldn't you only hardcode the filename and let there be a search path? 00:32:03 (from _both_ sides) 00:32:07 Violate ELF spec, you'd need to modify the kernel. 00:32:19 oerjan: Do you not think that *tolerating* the Republicans' utter insanity is part of that? The fact that they have a culture where the Republicans and the Democrats constitutes a LEGITIMATE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM... 00:32:35 I'd say they need to portray both of them as goat-fucking abortions. 00:32:38 -!- Ilari has joined. 00:32:47 *aborti! 00:32:49 Totally the plural of abortus. 00:33:04 Gregor, Spanish and Esperanto, unless my memory fails 00:33:33 oerjan: The thing is, they actually *advocate* increasing military spending and cutting taxes. 00:33:35 pikhq: BTW, with all that gcc-cross stuff... 00:33:36 pikhq: Does pcc use the triples? 00:33:36 Presumably clang does. 00:34:04 oerjan: The lines of coke thing is just a silly stereotype about pretty much anyone with more money than anyone could possibly spend. 00:34:10 oerjan: Such as almost all politicians. 00:34:17 Erm, almost all US politicians. 00:37:12 elliott: pikhq: well i'm just saying you are _both_ sounding like fanatics. 00:37:23 oerjan: i don't take any of this seriously 00:37:27 i'd just nuke the US 00:37:50 Including me??? 00:37:56 I said all the US. 00:37:57 oerjan: No. Seriously. The Republicans ACTUALLY ADVOCATE THIS. 00:38:01 oerjan: AS THEIR PLATFORM. 00:38:16 oerjan: i think it's pretty obvious that their political system is near-unsalvagable as they have the choice between ultra-right-wing and almost-ultra-right-wing 00:38:22 pikhq: i am not saying that you are lying. i am saying you _sound like a fanatic_. 00:38:24 elliott, are you just trying to make sure PSOX stays dead? 00:38:31 Sgeo: You do realise pikhq is in the US too? 00:38:51 it is in fact possible to tell the truth in an entirely counterproductive manner. 00:38:59 oerjan: Why, yes, of course I do. 00:39:03 Apparently you're fundamentally opposed to Pebble too 00:39:37 oerjan: Are you *familiar* with what the Republicans are like? 00:39:53 oerjan: it is also possible to vent 00:39:57 which is clearly what pikhq is doing 00:40:13 it's not like he's trying to convince anyone 00:40:16 And, yeah. I need to vent sometimes. Gaaaah. 00:40:26 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:40:56 http://www.acc.umu.se/~achtt315/tunguska/ Ternary system emulator. 00:41:05 With a ternary-C-dialect compiler! 00:41:10 I approve to an insane degree. 00:41:17 "It is loosely based on the excellent design of the (binary) 6502-processor by MOS Technology, but entirely ternary. So instead of having two memory cell states (0, 1), it has three (-1, 0, 1)." 00:41:58 pikhq: ^ Impossibly awesome 00:41:59 http://www.acc.umu.se/~achtt315/tunguska/shots/tunguska_gtk.png 00:42:02 It even has a display! 00:42:05 And a command-line on this display! 00:42:48 * catseye is measuring programmer productivity in lines of coke 00:43:07 Gregor: ping 00:43:19 I want wl to work :( 00:46:14 Which is what? 00:46:42 Gregor: bin/wl 00:46:45 It tries to use your proxy. 00:46:48 Evidently unsuccessfully. 00:46:49 `help 00:46:50 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 00:47:10 Gregor: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/faaf59ee1b1b/bin/wl 00:47:33 `run wl 'sv sill' 2>&1 | tr -d '\n' | tail -n +10 00:47:38 `run wl 'sv sill' 2>&1 | tr -d '\n' | tail -c +10 00:47:41 No output. 00:47:42 (most recent call last): File "/tmp/hackenv.20289/bin/wl", line 37, in q = query(continue_id) File "/tmp/hackenv.20289/bin/wl", line 29, in query response = urllib2.urlopen(url).read() File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 126, in urlopen return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)AttributeError: 00:47:47 `run wl 'sv sill' 2>&1 | tr -d '\n' | tail -c +20 00:47:51 ent call last): File "/tmp/hackenv.20352/bin/wl", line 37, in q = query(continue_id) File "/tmp/hackenv.20352/bin/wl", line 29, in query response = urllib2.urlopen(url).read() File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 126, in urlopen return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)AttributeError: ProxyHandler 00:47:53 Blergh 00:47:55 `run wl 'sv sill' 2>&1 | tr -d '\n' | tail -c +50 00:47:58 ckenv.20399/bin/wl", line 37, in q = query(continue_id) File "/tmp/hackenv.20399/bin/wl", line 29, in query response = urllib2.urlopen(url).read() File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 126, in urlopen return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)AttributeError: ProxyHandler instance has no attribute 'open' 00:48:03 Good lord, stop 00:48:04 I guess that's actually my issue, huh. 00:48:10 `run wl 'sv sill' 2>&1 | paste 00:48:15 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28689 00:48:15 BORING 00:48:37 That looks like your problem to me. 00:49:03 It is, but. 00:49:04 :P 00:49:07 I forgot. 00:49:12 Windows 7 is growing on me. 00:49:20 But I'm missing a lot of stuff that Ubuntu had 00:49:23 Every fucking thing grows on you. 00:49:29 Install Ubuntu, then. 00:49:31 * catseye sprays Sgeo with windicide 00:49:35 This tumor is growing on me. 00:49:38 aha 00:49:41 I need to build_opener 00:50:13 `fetch http://pastie.org/pastes/1219576/download?key=1fzihgyczmg1qaxeqnpsq 00:50:17 2010-10-13 23:50:11 URL:http://pastie.org/pastes/1219576/download?key=1fzihgyczmg1qaxeqnpsq [1187/1187] -> "download?key=1fzihgyczmg1qaxeqnpsq" [1] 00:50:19 `run cat download?key=1fzihgyczmg1qaxeqnpsq >bin/wl 00:50:21 No output. 00:50:23 `wl sv sill 00:50:28 Atlantic herring 00:50:33 ... seriously ... cat foo > bar ... not cp ... 00:50:34 Gregor: Interwiki translate! 00:50:38 Gregor: Yes. 00:50:41 Because bin/wl is +x. 00:50:46 And cp would make me have to chmod +x it again. 00:50:51 ... wow. 00:50:53 `run rm download?key=1fzihgyczmg1qaxeqnpsq 00:50:54 No output. 00:50:57 Gregor: MY LAZINESS IS UNSURPASSED 00:51:25 `wv en fucking la 00:51:27 No output. 00:51:32 that's not right 00:51:37 `wv en Murderer 00:51:39 No output. 00:51:45 Gregor: Translating English to English? :P 00:51:45 `run wv 'en fucking la' 2>&1 00:51:47 /bin/bash: line 1: wv: command not found 00:51:50 I don't know what this is supposed to do :P 00:51:51 ... 00:51:51 Oh. 00:51:55 Gregor: it's wl :P 00:52:00 `wv en bicycle fr 00:52:05 No output. 00:52:07 `wl en bicycle fr 00:52:10 Bicyclette 00:52:11 Gregor: "wl langcode foo" looks at langcode.wikipedia.org/wiki/foo 00:52:16 ok then 00:52:16 Gregor: It looks for an English interwiki link 00:52:18 and gives its title 00:52:21 lawl 00:52:25 if you provide a third argument, that is used instead of english 00:52:36 Gregor: this is basically for all the times Vorpal says he doesn't know what a word is in English and I find it via interwiki 00:52:43 `wl en fucking la 00:52:46 No output. 00:52:47 `wl en fucking lat 00:52:50 No output. 00:52:54 `wl en Douchebag fr 00:52:57 No output. 00:52:58 `run wl 'en fucking la' 2>&1 00:53:02 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/tmp/hackenv.21071/bin/wl", line 40, in \ for link in q['query']['pages'].values()[0]['langlinks']: \ KeyError: 'langlinks' 00:53:06 Ohh. 00:53:13 Fucking redirects to fuck, you see. 00:53:31 Aha. 00:53:36 There's a redirects parameter to automatically handle them. 00:53:42 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:53:56 `wl en bicycle zh 00:54:01 No output. 00:54:07 * elliott makes it "zh bicycle", "en zh bicycle" 00:54:10 More consistent API, right? 00:54:15 Yes/no? 00:54:23 `wl en bicycle ja 00:54:26 No output. 00:54:31 `wl en Jesus fr 00:54:35 No output. 00:54:50 `wl en Wikipedia fr 00:54:54 No output. 00:55:14 自転車, should be valid Written Chinese as well. 00:55:31 `wl en bicycle hu 00:55:34 No output. 00:55:36 `wl no sykkel 00:55:42 Bicycle 00:56:00 `wl fr fromage 00:56:04 Cheese 00:56:11 `wl en bicycle cz 00:56:16 My hovercraft is full of eels. 00:56:18 `wl en pornography fr 00:56:21 Pornographie 00:56:37 oerjan: ....?!?!?!?! 00:56:38 oerjan: !!!!! 00:56:38 Hahahaha 00:56:52 that seems _unlikely_ 00:56:53 `wl en bicycle cz 00:56:55 -!- petabit has joined. 00:56:57 My hovercraft is full of eels. 00:57:01 Monty Python has defeated Wikipedia. 00:57:04 wtf 00:57:05 `wl en bicycle ar 00:57:08 No output. 00:57:38 `wl no sykkel 00:57:38 apparently only a few european civilizations have developed the bicycle 00:57:38 Gregor: oerjan: That is my error message, you doofuses. 00:57:43 Bicycle 00:57:45 elliott: Oh :P 00:57:56 Gregor: i.e. "No link, here's a translation that works in any case!" 00:58:13 elliott: dammit i was just about to check the article for vandalism :D 00:58:14 `wl en bicycle fi 00:58:14 elliott: Should've used "If I said you have a beautiful body, would you hold it against me? I am no longer infected." 00:58:17 No output. 00:58:21 Gregor: ...what. 00:58:24 Aand why is that no output. 00:58:27 `run wl 'en bicycle fi' 2>&1 00:58:30 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/tmp/hackenv.21773/bin/wl", line 42, in \ print link['*'] \ UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xf6' in position 7: ordinal not in range(128) 00:58:36 ... Fuck you, Python. 00:58:37 oh la la 00:58:45 elliott: You fail at Monty Python. 00:58:53 Gregor: I don't. 00:58:54 I'm just 00:58:55 Python: you fail at unicode 00:58:58 wondering why you'd prefer that :P 00:59:11 `fetch http://pastie.org/pastes/1219594/text?key=sggh817ogyryzpccok0bta 00:59:13 2010-10-13 23:59:07 URL:http://pastie.org/pastes/1219594/text?key=sggh817ogyryzpccok0bta [1962/1962] -> "text?key=sggh817ogyryzpccok0bta" [1] 00:59:13 whoops 00:59:19 `rm text?key=sggh817ogyryzpccok0bta 00:59:21 No output. 00:59:23 `fetch http://pastie.org/pastes/1219594/download?key=sggh817ogyryzpccok0bta 00:59:25 2010-10-13 23:59:19 URL:http://pastie.org/pastes/1219594/download?key=sggh817ogyryzpccok0bta [1469/1469] -> "download?key=sggh817ogyryzpccok0bta" [1] 00:59:38 `run cat download?key=sggh817ogyryzpccok0bta >bin/wl; rm download?key=sggh817ogyryzpccok0bta 00:59:41 No output. 00:59:44 `wl en fi bicycle 00:59:50 Polkupyörä 00:59:53 YOU CAN DO IT PYTHON 00:59:54 yay 01:00:00 `wl en la fucking 01:00:05 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:00:08 `wl en lat fucking 01:00:11 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:00:19 `wl en simple Fuck 01:00:29 `wl en la fuck 01:00:38 Gregor: YOU BROKE IT 01:00:46 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:00:46 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:00:51 `wl en lat fuck 01:00:54 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:00:55 `wl en la Earth 01:01:00 Tellus (planeta) 01:01:04 There are surprisingly few interwikis on [[en:fuck]]. 01:01:05 yay 01:01:16 `wl en zh fuck 01:01:19 Fuck 01:01:26 `wl en simple bicycle 01:01:29 Bicycle 01:01:34 * Gregor nods 01:01:35 Because it's an article about the word, not the meaning. Blarh. 01:01:41 `wl en simple Category_theory 01:01:44 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:01:58 that pretty much sums up the theory, yeah 01:02:01 `wl en simple Jesus_of_Nazareth 01:02:02 `wl en ur jihad 01:02:07 جہاد 01:02:07 Jesus 01:02:13 The Japanese article has a full description of how to use "fuck" idiomatically in English. It's kinda funny. 01:02:14 Jesus lost his of :P 01:02:20 pikhq: XD 01:02:31 `wl en en the 01:02:34 No output. 01:02:38 Gregor: Jesus_of_Nazareth redirects to Jesus, i'm pretty sure 01:02:39 ...:D 01:02:51 oerjan: Indeed. 01:02:58 `run wl en en the 2>&1 01:03:01 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/tmp/hackenv.22666/bin/wl", line 55, in \ for link in q['query']['pages'].values()[0]['langlinks']: \ KeyError: 'langlinks' 01:04:00 `fetch http://pastie.org/pastes/1219610/download?key=vfm9cgewz89yc6tolaprwq 01:04:15 2010-10-14 00:04:09 URL:http://pastie.org/pastes/1219610/download?key=vfm9cgewz89yc6tolaprwq [1559/1559] -> "download?key=vfm9cgewz89yc6tolaprwq" [1] 01:04:17 `run cat download?key=vfm9cgewz89yc6tolaprwq >bin/wl; rm download* 01:04:18 `wl en simple General_relativity 01:04:24 No output. 01:04:29 (That's to my run.) 01:04:32 `wl en en the 01:04:33 nothing simple about it 01:04:40 General relativity 01:04:41 No output. 01:04:45 FUCK YOU 01:04:47 `run wl en en the 2>&1 01:04:49 /tmp/hackenv.22947/bin/wl: error while loading shared libraries: /tmp/hackenv.22947/bin/wl: file too short 01:04:53 ... 01:04:59 `run head bin/wl 01:05:01 No output. 01:05:04 ... 01:05:07 Gregor: YOU BORKED IT 01:05:10 `run cat download?key=vfm9cgewz89yc6tolaprwq >bin/wl; rm download* 01:05:12 "file too short". love it. 01:05:13 Whoops 01:05:17 `fetch http://pastie.org/pastes/1219610/download?key=vfm9cgewz89yc6tolaprwq 01:05:22 elliott: Good job breaking it, hero. 01:05:24 2010-10-14 00:05:18 URL:http://pastie.org/pastes/1219610/download?key=vfm9cgewz89yc6tolaprwq [1559/1559] -> "download?key=vfm9cgewz89yc6tolaprwq.1" [1] 01:05:27 No output. 01:05:29 ".1" 01:05:32 `run cat download?key=vfm9cgewz89yc6tolaprwq.1 >bin/wl; rm download* 01:05:33 "file surpasses komologorov lower bound" 01:05:40 catseye: :D 01:05:48 No output. 01:05:52 `wl en en the 01:05:57 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:06:41 -!- petabit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:06:47 `wl en zh bicycle 01:06:57 自行車 01:07:01 `wl zh zh bicycle 01:07:06 applause 01:07:12 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:07:34 `wl en it Dirty_Hungarian_Phrasebook 01:07:37 Il frasario ungherese 01:08:03 `wl fr en velo 01:08:17 Bicycle 01:08:22 also applause 01:08:32 Now let's replace Google Translate's backend with it. 01:09:29 `wl en hu Normative_Power 01:09:32 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:09:53 `wl en la sex 01:09:57 Sexus 01:10:01 I MUST CREATE EXPLICIT LATIN WITH MY PROGRAM 01:10:01 YAY 01:10:21 `wl en hu Mandolin 01:10:25 Mandolin 01:10:58 `wl en hu Crème_fraiche 01:11:05 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:11:09 :D 01:11:11 `wl fr en Crème_fraiche 01:11:14 Shouldn't it be hu en, really? 01:11:14 Crème fraiche 01:11:24 `wl fr it Crème_fraiche 01:11:29 Crème fraîche 01:11:36 `wl en es Crème_fraiche 01:11:39 Crème fraîche 01:11:40 `wl en nl The_Treachery_of_Images 01:11:47 La trahison des images 01:11:53 *applause* 01:12:12 `wl fr non 01:12:13 `wl en ja Crème_fraiche 01:12:45 catseye: YOU CONFUSED IT 01:13:20 -!- antivigilante has joined. 01:13:26 `run 'wl en pt Bicycle' | bzip2 01:13:31 ...what. 01:14:00 `wl en pt Bicycle? 01:14:09 Gregor: it burked 01:14:21 `pstree 01:14:32 yeh 01:14:56 BZh9rE8P 01:14:56 No output. 01:14:57 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:14:57 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:14:57 Gregor: FIXIT 01:15:00 Non 01:15:21 -!- sshc has joined. 01:17:09 sshc, the ssh compiler 01:17:11 `wl en ja Cheeseburger 01:17:12 チーズバーガー 01:18:56 tîsùhầkầ 01:19:01 `wl ja en チーズバーガー 01:19:04 Cheeseburger 01:19:06 Goodnight. Bye. 01:19:07 (chiizubāgā) 01:19:09 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Connection reset by peer review). 01:19:15 `wl en ja Gentoo 01:19:17 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:19:19 drat 01:21:03 `wl en ru Everclear 01:21:05 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:21:11 `wl en ru Bicycle 01:21:15 Велосипед 01:21:19 `wl en ar Bicycle 01:21:21 دراجة هوائية 01:21:43 `wl en sa Bicycle 01:21:44 I "love" how wrong that renders here. 01:21:48 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:22:03 `wl en sa morning 01:22:08 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:22:24 `wl en sa sky 01:22:27 LTR Arabic. Ugh. 01:22:28 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:22:56 `wl en ta bicycle 01:23:00 மிதிவண்டி 01:23:18 `wl en ug bicycle 01:23:22 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:23:40 `wl en pa bicycle 01:23:43 `wl en sa Earth 01:23:44 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:23:47 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:24:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 01:24:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:25:18 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:25:37 Sgeo: do you still have windows growing on you 01:26:13 Windows is to blame for all random disconnects? 01:26:45 only as a scapegoat 01:26:53 `wl en ru scapegoat 01:26:56 Козёл отпущения 01:28:36 `wl en hu Bicycle 01:28:41 Kerékpár 01:28:45 Yay finally 01:28:55 `wl en en Gentoo 01:29:01 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:29:05 boo-yah 01:29:10 `wl en en en 01:29:14 My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:29:32 `wl en en My hovercraft is full of eels. 01:29:35 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Book-in-Xiaoerjing.png Guess what language the right page here is written in! 01:29:51 Oh come on 01:30:13 You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir! 01:31:07 ... 01:31:33 Someone coerced the bot into saying that. That's all I can assume from the delay 01:32:41 No guesses? 01:32:43 `run wget http://www.han.de/~werner/ytree-1.96.tar.gz | bzip2 | bzip2 | bzip2 | bzip2 | bzip2 01:32:46 BZh91AY&SY 01:33:17 Seriously, none at all? 01:33:24 pikhq: i would guess either Xiaoerjing, based on the link, or 01:33:31 Persian. 01:33:31 Arabic based on what it looks like 01:33:37 AKA Farsi 01:33:39 -!- augur has joined. 01:33:43 Mandarin. 01:33:55 Written in an alphabet for some reason. 01:34:53 Apparently, Mandarin-speaking Muslims write translations of the Koran using Arabic script, so as to allow for not botching Arabic loan words. 01:37:04 catseye: "小兒經" in Traditional Chinese, "小儿经" in Simplified, "Xiǎo'érjīng" in Pinyin, شِيَوْ عَر in Xiao'erjing. 01:37:08 If something were written in English using Hebrew letters, I'd be able to use my limited understanding of Hebrew for something! 01:37:32 Sgeo: Maybe you could halfway-guess at the meaning of Yiddish. 01:38:46 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:40:45 need to make roguelike with cursive alphabet now 01:41:13 Are there any Unicode roguelikes? 01:42:45 Nethack. 01:42:46 :P 01:43:04 (granted, it only uses the ASCII subset, but hey.) 01:43:46 Pfffffff 01:43:54 Are there any NOT-EXCLUSIVELY-ASCII Unicode roguelikes? 01:44:41 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 01:45:50 None that I know of. 01:45:58 (but there should be) 01:46:04 Hey, it's the 13th. Happy backwards Hallowe'en day. 01:46:06 Sgeo: /me fails to find any evidence validating that claim. 01:47:53 http://crawl.develz.org/learndb/index.html#char_set 01:48:59 Sgeo: The fact that it's capable of using UTF-8 does little to suggest that it actually uses any Unicode. 01:50:54 ...? 01:51:21 It could just be that it normally uses "extended ASCII" so they have to be wonky if you NEED UTF-8. 01:51:39 Gregor: It appears to actually use some of Unicode's drawing characters when set to UTF-8. 01:51:48 -!- petabit has joined. 01:51:51 Sweet 01:52:05 The ones that are analogous to the ones on code page 437. 01:52:15 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Codepage-437.png Y'know, this one. 01:53:12 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:54:02 -!- petabit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:58:59 -!- petabit has joined. 01:59:21 -!- petabit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:02:43 the only code page that matters 02:05:02 Unless you don't speak a Western European language. 02:05:18 WHY is Chrome telling me it will take 3 hours to download a 355mb file? 02:05:19 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 02:05:58 pikhq: like I said! 02:06:28 -!- petabit has joined. 02:07:10 -!- petabit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:09:37 -!- petabit has joined. 02:12:58 -!- petabit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:15:07 -!- petabit has joined. 02:20:18 Wow. The Euro banknote designs are brilliant. To avoid creating anything favoring a particular nation, they had an artist *create* buildings & bridges in various architectural styles. 02:20:42 So, rather than featuring actual landmarks, they feature things that *would be landmarks if they existed*. 02:22:41 Just... Dang. 02:23:32 lawl 02:24:19 It seems I have written Transitions With No Resolution: A work for woodwind quintet 02:24:30 * Sgeo hungers 02:24:53 For BLOOD 02:26:48 It could also be called Really Obvious Variations: A work for woodwind quintet 02:31:30 -!- augur has joined. 02:45:29 Does anybody know enough about flutes to tell me what the reasonable /human/ upperbound for a concert flute is? (Not the Wikipedia upperbound) 02:48:06 i can only guess 02:50:10 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:57:11 i didn't even know wikipedia could play the flute 02:58:18 It's not very good at it. 03:06:16 Gregor: 44.1 kHz. Definitely. 03:13:34 -!- augur has joined. 03:16:39 Gregor: Better name: A Work for Woodwind Quintopia 03:19:07 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 03:21:14 http://codu.org/tmp/WoodwindQuintet.ogg <-- nonsense for woodwind quintet 03:22:25 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:43:07 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:46:38 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:48:35 -!- augur has joined. 03:52:46 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:53:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:58:55 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: Later). 04:01:45 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:02:33 GreaseMonkey! 04:06:07 -!- petabit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:06:19 cpressey! 04:06:23 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 04:09:58 -!- petabit has joined. 04:10:13 -!- petabit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:12:59 so if I import System.Console.Readline in my hs program does that make it GPL'ed 04:13:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:24:01 also why do File Browser windows not have a 'start a terminal in this directory' button 04:24:18 it's obvious!! 04:25:40 -!- petabit has joined. 04:25:52 petabit: make up your mind! :) 04:30:11 Gregor: yep, that had some interesting moments but it pretty much went nowhere... 04:32:06 catseye: No, but to do so you must agree to license the /aggregate/ under the GPL. There is a distinction. 04:32:29 I should use a different term than "aggregate" since it sounds like "mere aggregation" which is a different thing :P 04:32:54 My CPR class has been moved to 9AM 04:33:01 catseye: (Also, it gets wonky in languages that aren't compiled) 04:33:02 I am barely awake at 9AMs 04:33:59 Gregor: yeah like someone could provide an implementation of the System.Console.Readline api using libedit and WHAT THEN 04:34:08 (well, not a weird question really) 04:35:02 Didn't the FSF claim that there was one project that went GPL solely to use ReadLine? 04:35:25 Since this is haskell it almost makes more sense to provide some module of higher-order functions that 'readlineify' whatever primitive-input functions you give it 04:35:45 Sgeo_: Projects do do that, because people are stupid and don't realize the distinction between being forced to release your code under a GPL-compatible license and (impossibly) being forced to release your code under the GPL. 04:36:23 -!- petabit has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:37:24 -!- augur has joined. 04:41:23 hey i want to import functions from two libraries with incompatible licenses 04:41:27 PLEEEEZE??? 04:41:42 `wl en dr sky 04:42:02 `wl en fr sky 04:42:06 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:42:13 Ciel 04:42:13 My hovercraft is full of eels. 04:42:25 `wl en hu sky 04:42:30 Ég 04:42:46 `wl fr en Choux 04:42:52 Chou 04:42:59 `wl fr en Chou 04:43:08 Chou 04:43:15 ohhh kay 04:43:51 `wl fr en pamplemousse 04:43:56 My hovercraft is full of eels. 04:44:14 `wl fr en pain 04:44:19 Bread 04:44:26 `wl fr en vin 04:44:31 Wine 04:44:36 `wl fr en fromage 04:44:41 Cheese 04:44:51 `wl fr en pomme_de_terre 04:44:54 Potato 04:45:04 `wl en fr wheat 04:45:10 Blé 04:45:18 `wl fr en ble 04:45:21 BLE 04:45:26 yah 04:45:34 `wl fr en d'accord 04:45:37 Okay 04:45:52 `wl en zh okay 04:45:54 OK 04:46:00 surprise. 04:46:08 `wl en zh melancholy 04:46:10 憂鬱 04:46:13 ! 04:46:44 `wl zh ja 憂鬱 04:46:48 メランコリー 04:46:51 remarkable. 04:47:32 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:47:37 `wl ja en メランコリー 04:47:39 Melancholia 04:47:55 `wl en gr chaos 04:47:57 My hovercraft is full of eels. 04:48:03 `wl en gr bread 04:48:06 My hovercraft is full of eels. 04:48:22 `wl en es german 04:48:24 Alemán 04:48:33 `wl en el chaos 04:48:35 My hovercraft is full of eels. 04:48:44 `wl en el bread 04:48:46 Ψωμί 04:48:56 `wl el ru Ψωμί 04:49:00 Хлеб 04:49:11 `wl ru zh Хлеб 04:49:16 麵包 04:49:24 `wl zh fr 麵包 04:49:27 Pain 04:50:34 `wl en el kitten 04:50:35 My hovercraft is full of eels. 04:50:39 `wl en el cat 04:50:42 Γάτα 04:50:56 `wl en es cat 04:51:00 Felis silvestris catus 04:51:05 !!! 04:51:22 -!- petabit has joined. 04:51:25 * catseye was kind of expecting 'gato' 04:51:56 `wl en ru metabolism 04:51:59 Метаболизм 04:54:23 -!- petabit has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:57:20 `wl es en gato 04:57:22 Cat 04:57:35 -!- petabit has joined. 04:57:41 `wl en ar arrow 04:57:42 -!- petabit has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:57:43 سهم 04:58:09 one of these days, petabit will make up their mind 04:59:52 -!- augur has joined. 05:00:57 where is an op to kicktempban when you need one 05:01:46 so does wl say "My hovercraft is full of eels." only if it doesn't have the word? 05:01:54 or does it just randomly do it from time to time? 05:05:51 -!- petabit has joined. 05:06:01 -!- petabit has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:08:07 -!- petabit has joined. 05:09:17 quintopia: the hovercraft message is if the source word is found, but there is no translation found, afaik 05:09:26 `wl en fr ifhdshf0we8cge 05:09:29 My hovercraft is full of eels. 05:09:37 or if the source word is not found, it seems. 05:10:23 My denotational arrow has ranged beyond its lower bound. 05:11:04 No results found for "denotational arrow", sez Google 05:11:06 ha 05:11:17 i dunno what that is either 05:12:30 it must be existible 05:12:41 denotations are functions and functions are arrows! 05:16:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:18:11 -!- petabit has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:20:32 -!- petabit has joined. 05:21:22 -!- petabit has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:25:38 functions are arrows? 05:29:02 Yes, (->) is an instance of arrow. 05:29:07 Erm, instance of Arrow. 05:30:04 symbolic arrows, not objectual sagitti, yes? 05:31:12 I think for the first time since elementary, I just had homework that I did on automatic. 05:31:25 Math homework, that is... 05:31:38 lucky bastard 05:32:00 Just grab a pencil and some paper, and do a bunch of partial derivatives. 05:35:01 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:59:07 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:00:25 -!- realazthat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:00:54 -!- realazthat has joined. 06:03:36 -!- antivigilante has joined. 06:18:37 -!- augur has joined. 06:20:51 -!- Nostro has joined. 06:21:48 -!- Nostro has left (?). 06:35:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:35:49 -!- augur has joined. 06:37:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:37:40 -!- augur has joined. 06:43:26 `wl 06:43:34 `wl en sv eel 06:43:40 You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir! 06:43:41 broken? 06:43:41 Ålartade fiskar 06:43:42 ah 06:43:53 `wl sv en ål 06:43:57 My hovercraft is full of eels. 06:44:01 ... 06:44:09 `wl sv en Ålartade fiskar 06:44:11 You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir! 06:44:23 elliott: it seems broken 06:44:28 `wl sv en "Ålartade fiskar" 06:44:30 You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir! 06:44:32 `run wl sv en "Ålartade fiskar" 06:44:33 My hovercraft is full of eels. 06:44:41 very much so 06:44:46 `run wl sv en "Öl" 06:44:53 Beer 06:44:57 okay that works 06:45:33 agreed 06:45:37 beer works very well 06:45:45 quintopia, no :P 06:46:02 you must be drinking the wrong beer 06:46:09 quintopia, or rather, yes. It works very well to destroy your liver and increase your weight 06:46:47 are you a teetotaler? 06:46:56 quintopia, why would I be? 06:47:14 (though you are correct, I am) 06:47:49 any kind of excessive alcohol intake would destroy your liver, so I assume you can't be anti-beer in specific. 06:48:03 that's why you would br 06:48:08 indeed, I'm anti-alcohol in general 06:48:34 but I don't try to actively convince other people about it unless they bring the whole thing up. 06:49:03 you'll live 20 years longer! you'll get to know the joy of being 95 creaky old years! 06:50:27 unfortunately, you won't be able to enjoy it with tasty alcoholic beverages, so will it be worth it? 06:51:39 who knows, maybe. bbl, university → 07:00:51 -!- fungot has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:02:05 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:04:37 -!- fizzie has joined. 07:05:00 -!- tombom has joined. 07:08:55 -!- wareya has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:21:28 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:22:00 -!- wareya has joined. 07:47:53 -!- wareya has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:48:24 -!- wareya has joined. 07:50:11 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:59:40 i need appropriate hacker music 07:59:43 someone give me hacker music 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:09:04 fizzie, http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/misc/uni1.jpg 08:09:44 will read any comments when I get back, on tethered phone atm.... so kind of slow and not a good idea in the long run and so on. 08:10:01 It's a bit on the blurry side, isn't it? 08:10:06 fizzie, true 08:10:30 fizzie, stitched as rectilinear btw 08:10:38 fizzie, to straighten up perspective 08:10:58 Yes, it looks that way. Very architectural feel to it. 08:10:59 from two images 08:11:08 fizzie, well yes, that was intentional 08:11:49 fizzie, also I would show you the first attempt at stitch, but the connection is too slow for me to want to upload more than one image. 08:11:54 fizzie, it was... curvy 08:11:57 -!- realazthat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:12:03 like, too much distortion correction 08:12:22 -!- realazthat has joined. 08:12:37 fizzie, straight lines near the corners looked like they were distorted by relativistic effects! 08:15:00 fizzie, also I have some material to stitch an image of a long articulated bus here. The colour scheme they use is a kind of pink-lilac around here. 08:15:14 don't have time to do that now though 08:16:35 bbl, disconnecting from ssh tunnel to bouncer 08:29:11 -!- atrapado has joined. 08:33:13 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 08:40:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:41:28 -!- zeotrope has joined. 08:45:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:56:58 -!- dbc has quit (*.net *.split). 08:56:58 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 08:56:58 -!- atrapado has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:33 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:34 -!- sshc has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:34 -!- oklopol has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:35 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:35 -!- SimonRC has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:36 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:36 -!- cal153 has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:36 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:36 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:36 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:36 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:37 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:38 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:38 -!- Quadlex has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:40 -!- Quadrescence has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:42 -!- wareya has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:44 -!- Leonidas has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:44 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:45 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:45 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 09:07:46 -!- yiyus_ has quit (*.net *.split). 09:21:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:55:41 -!- atrapado has joined. 09:55:41 -!- dbc has joined. 09:55:41 -!- yiyus has joined. 10:00:15 -!- wareya has joined. 10:00:15 -!- augur has joined. 10:00:15 -!- sshc has joined. 10:00:15 -!- oklopol has joined. 10:00:15 -!- quintopia has joined. 10:00:15 -!- cal153 has joined. 10:00:15 -!- EgoBot has joined. 10:00:15 -!- aloril has joined. 10:00:15 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 10:00:15 -!- Deewiant has joined. 10:00:15 -!- rodgort has joined. 10:00:15 -!- Quadrescence has joined. 10:00:15 -!- olsner has joined. 10:00:15 -!- coppro has joined. 10:00:15 -!- mtve has joined. 10:00:15 -!- ineiros has joined. 10:00:15 -!- Vorpal has joined. 10:00:15 -!- SimonRC has joined. 10:00:15 -!- Leonidas has joined. 10:00:15 -!- yiyus_ has joined. 10:00:15 -!- Quadlex has joined. 10:15:25 doot doot doo 10:15:27 neural networks 10:15:29 wee 10:16:47 yay netsplits 10:24:22 -!- zeotrope has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 10:34:53 Neural netsplits. 10:37:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:37:43 -!- augur has joined. 11:02:02 -!- blaize has joined. 11:02:13 boot 11:05:31 hi 11:05:36 hi 11:05:48 hi 11:05:59 sa bot ou kwa 11:08:02 ? 11:09:55 -!- blaize has left (?). 11:27:50 so i am working at this energy company 11:27:53 and the lights are flickering 11:28:00 wonder if they paid their bill. LULZ! 11:57:18 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:19:14 hi 12:33:57 hi 13:45:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:46:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:09:31 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:16:00 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:22:12 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:33:50 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:34:23 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:00:42 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:13:57 -!- antivigilante has joined. 15:27:39 i amresentation on a neaural net experiment next thursday 15:42:10 -!- cpressey_ has joined. 15:52:53 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:57:54 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:58:27 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:03:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:03:37 Lo! 16:17:00 http://www.skepticmoney.com/fort-worth-city-councilman-joel-burns-tells-kids-it-gets-better-at-meeting/ 16:27:21 * Phantom_Hoover approves of this message. 16:29:27 That's because this whole channel is made of nerds 16:29:43 obv. they're gonna side with the nerds 16:30:52 i like to side with the underdogs whenever possible 16:31:12 i'm not really all that nerdy, as far as steretypical nerd behavior goes 16:31:14 So do you side with the flat-Earthers? 16:31:15 Are you siding with the neonazis? :o 16:31:19 They are such a minority 16:31:30 but i pretty much was in middle school, so that's fair 16:31:52 i said "whenever possible" for a reason 16:32:00 http://abstrusegoose.com/260 16:32:08 "My apologies to Jeff Kinney. I actually think his book, is awesome, but it’s clearly biased against dumb jocks. 16:32:11 heheheh 16:32:12 -!- sftp has joined. 16:32:14 it's not possible for me to side with the immoral, rude, or otherwise douchey on principle 16:32:29 But nerds are NERDS 16:32:51 these kids he's talking about were not even nerds 16:32:57 he even said he himself played basketball 16:33:07 they got picked on solely because they were gay or seemed gay 16:33:17 Even worse! 16:33:31 Because gays are GAY 16:33:49 and jerks are jerks 16:33:58 i'll takes gays over jerks and bigots any day 16:34:09 quintopia, what about douchey gays? 16:34:12 -!- Slereah has quit. 16:34:18 And kind, pleasant bigots? 16:35:01 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:35:03 Woops 16:35:31 And kind, pleasant bigots? 16:35:43 hmm, i'd probably take the kind, pleasant bigot over the douchey gay, but I would never be close friends with either 16:35:53 Yeah, I find his broad generalization of bigots to be a bit biggoted 16:36:01 but i think the idea of a kind, pleasant bigot is kind of an oxymoron 16:36:19 Y'know, like the old southern rocking-chair bigot. "Back in my day, the negros tended to the land. But today they run 'round killin'. Oh well, would ya like some pie?" 16:36:53 hehe, sure i'll take some pie ... to go. 16:37:08 Or the grandmothers who are physically incapable of stopping using the word negro 16:37:24 "Oh dear, such a nice young negro!" 16:37:35 that doesn't bother me at all 16:39:13 you can be totally not racist while still not being able to use the currently PC terms 16:40:58 But what if she thinks they are a bit simple minded :o 16:41:01 FUN FACT 16:41:07 Abraham Lincoln was a racist. 16:41:25 He did not believe in the equality of races, but that they should have equal rights :o 16:41:29 Or something. 16:41:30 in 1866, almost all white americans were racist. what of it? 16:41:41 Well, that is not the point. 16:41:44 The point is 16:42:00 Are they all people you would not befriend? :o 16:42:27 Well, Lincoln was a republican too. Damned republicans. 16:43:19 well, that was back in the day when republicans were more liberal than democrats iirc 16:43:42 but yes, i would have a hard time befriending any of those people if they were alive in the modern world 16:43:53 Yeah, since then both terms have turned into complete mockeries of themselves :P 16:45:21 I say 16:45:24 Vote for the whigs. 16:45:51 TORIES! 16:54:52 We tried that in the UK; it didn't work. 16:55:40 -!- tombom has joined. 16:55:57 I'm extremely bigoted towards the stupid. 16:56:07 Does that make me a bad person? 16:56:18 depends on how you show it 16:57:13 if you get your jollies from being up the mentally-challenged, you are definitely a bad person 16:57:21 *beating 16:58:10 Well, *the wantonly stupid. 16:59:23 The kind of person who thinks that float is a good type for currency variables. 16:59:55 if by that you mean "people who are of normally intelligent but are too close-minded to ever consider doing anything but what requires the least mental effort" then probably not. those people deserve ridicule. 17:00:19 but you have to have a lot of contact with someone before you can justifiably label them that way 17:01:07 heh, I was teaching people about floating point inaccuracy today 17:01:15 and even managed to slip in 850*77.1 as an example 17:01:40 Elaborate. 17:02:05 yes. i have never heard of this example myself. 17:02:15 quintopia, it should be integral, but it isn't. 17:02:15 the sum's famous for Excel 2007 getting the answer wrong 17:02:43 the just-below-65535 number that's the result of the sum was handled incorrectly, somehow, by the binary->decimal conversion 17:02:53 and it displayed the number, as a string, as "100000" 17:03:05 -!- elliott has joined. 17:03:34 And it isn't just below 65535, either. 17:03:55 it is with float arithmetic, assuming I've remembered the sum correctly 17:04:04 and I have, just checked 17:04:15 the answer's 65535 exactly only in normal maths 17:04:28 floats can't represent 77.1 exactly, so it gets rounded down very slightly 17:05:21 are there any production systems that use fractional representations instead of floats at a low level? 17:05:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:05:53 I'd assume that there are lots. 17:06:17 17:31:07 ... 17:06:18 17:31:33 Someone coerced the bot into saying that. That's all I can assume from the delay 17:06:18 No. 17:06:29 Does anyone here like Janssons Frestelse? 17:07:35 17:41:13 Are there any Unicode roguelikes? 17:07:44 NetHack's rogue level, if you convert it! 17:08:22 18:20:18 Wow. The Euro banknote designs are brilliant. To avoid creating anything favoring a particular nation, they had an artist *create* buildings & bridges in various architectural styles. 17:08:22 Just like Toy Story 4: Debian Versioning. 17:08:34 Except not real. 17:09:10 20:32:06 catseye: No, but to do so you must agree to license the /aggregate/ under the GPL. There is a distinction. 17:09:11 WRONG 17:09:14 this is the clisp issue 17:09:22 rms, and his lawyer, got CLISP relicensed as gpl 17:09:26 just because it *could* be linked with readline 17:09:32 GPL: Scarier fucking shit than you think. 17:09:37 Seriously? 17:09:39 Yep. 17:09:40 O.o 17:09:44 Wait ... that doesn't even make sense. 17:09:47 Gregor: Of course not. 17:09:52 But the FSF lawyer agreed. 17:09:57 And, y'know, that's an actual lawyer. 17:10:03 Gregor: Oh yeah, and clisp even CAME with a libnoreadline.a. 17:10:16 That, when linked with clisp, provided it same-named functions as readline has, but that just used dumb stuff. 17:10:21 But nope. 17:10:26 Since it's "intended" to be linked with readline... 17:10:28 It must be GPL'd! 17:10:37 So wait, any software that allows itself to be used with RMS' spawn has to be GPLed? 17:10:40 I suggest not trying to make sense of the law because it makes none. 17:10:46 Phantom_Hoover: Pretty much, yes. 17:10:58 Of course rms might have a harder time convincing a court... 17:11:02 but the FSF lawyers certainly think so 17:11:04 So why did he just pick on clisp? 17:11:05 and it's certainly his intention. 17:11:11 Phantom_Hoover: Nobody else was doing it, really. 17:11:14 This was in the early 90s. 17:11:31 elliott: Was it under something non-GPL-compatible before? That's the only explanation I can remotely think of ... 17:11:54 Gregor: The code was readable-and-patchable-but-proprietary, I think. 17:12:09 But readline wasn't distributed with it, and it provided a full method to link a perfectly-working CLISP. 17:12:21 It's just that you could s/libnoreadline.a/libreadline.a/ and have it use readline. 17:12:26 And since this was "intended" functionality... 17:12:27 BOOM GPL 17:12:30 Well, you've walked into much murkier waters now. 17:12:36 No, you haven't. 17:12:40 The fucking thing didn't distribute readline. 17:13:04 my own personal theory about this, is that if a user linked it with readline, it would be them who was breaking the law 17:13:07 rms is arguing that since *IT CALLED FUNCTION PROTOTYPES THAT HAPPEN TO BE IN READLINE* and because Bruno Haible *thought in his mind* that people would link it with readline, it was copyright violation. 17:13:16 This is *fucking insane* and not murky at all. 17:13:18 but the software itself wasn't 17:13:26 tl;dr stop using the GPL, it's utterly insane 17:13:32 especially for libraries 17:13:33 so perhaps they could be found guilty of facilitating copyright infringement, but nothing else 17:13:51 anyway, the GPL is relatively sane; some of its advocates aren't 17:14:02 20:35:45 Sgeo_: Projects do do that, because people are stupid and don't realize the distinction between being forced to release your code under a GPL-compatible license and (impossibly) being forced to release your code under the GPL. 17:14:03 Er, no 17:14:10 You can't use readline in a BSD-licensed project. 17:14:21 *no. 17:14:38 "I don't agree. My lisp.a is not a "work based on libreadline.a". What I distribute is a "mere aggregation" of lisp.a and libreadline.a - the latter with source." // this clisp email discussion is suggesting something very different from what you're saying 17:14:53 Gregor: Yes -- he then offered to stop doing that. 17:14:57 And rms said that that would not suffice. 17:15:32 In spite of your statements to the contrary, this IS a murky area. What he's distributing is COMPILED BINARIES, not source. 17:15:42 Gregor: *HE THEN OFFERED TO STOP DOING THAT* 17:16:22 As far as I can tell, he offered to stop distributing libreadline.a, distribute a libclisp.a that was still compiled with readline headers, and a libnoreadline.a that provides the same interface. 17:16:29 22:44:32 `run wl sv en "Ã…lartade fiskar" 17:16:30 usage fail 17:16:33 use_underscores 17:16:41 elliott: here's a fun license question: NetHack is under the NHPL, a trivial variant of the GPL0. Suppose I disassemble one of the executables that nethack.org provides, to extract a library function from it that wasn't in the source they provided 17:16:48 Gregor: You can't exactly prove it was compiled with those headers. 17:16:49 can I post that disassembly? 17:16:55 That doesn't affect the binary. 17:17:02 ais523: Yes. 17:17:06 er wait 17:17:10 i thought you were asking like 17:17:14 to show a disassembly 17:17:16 * elliott reads it 17:17:30 elliott: It can affect the binary. And you DON'T know, that's the whole issue. Your source is still being intermixed with GPL'd source before creating a .o. 17:17:30 ais523: wait, they include extra things in the binary builds? or is this a hypothetical? 17:17:40 elliott: it's the libc, it's linked statically 17:17:51 they probably didn't even notice they were theoretically supplying it 17:17:53 Gregor: Yeaaah I don't believe a handful of function prototypes can be copyrighted. 17:18:03 ais523: ah 17:18:10 ais523: depends on the libc license, surely 17:18:19 maybe 17:18:20 uh 17:18:21 dunno :D 17:18:37 it's a license that lets them ship binaries, at least 17:18:41 I am also completely muddled 17:18:52 especially as I have the source for the libc in question, but not the exact version 17:18:56 and the asm doesn't match the source I have 17:19:38 22:44:32 `run wl sv en "Ã…lartade fiskar" <-- unicode fail 17:19:45 tunes.org fail. 17:19:48 i don't give a shit 17:19:48 elliott, ah 17:20:00 Vorpal: what's it actually? 17:20:06 i'll see if it works used properly 17:20:23 `run wl sv en Ålartade_fiskar 17:20:34 * Vorpal waits 17:21:05 `help 17:21:12 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 17:21:16 Yeah, elliott, you're majorly oversimplifying the issue. You are allowed to distribute a piece of software under the MIT license that uses a GPL'd library. If you distribute a binary /linked to use the GPL library, whether it includes its implementation or not/, then you must release that binary under the GPL. But you can release the source under MIT, somebody can rip out the GPL dependency, and then they can produce an MIT-redistributable binary. RMS wanted C 17:21:16 LISP released under the GPL and not some compatible license because RMS is RMS, not because that was the legal obligation. 17:21:22 `wl sv en Ålartade_fiskar 17:21:24 wati 17:21:26 `wl sv Ålartade_fiskar 17:21:29 en is totally useless there 17:21:40 elliott, why is that? 17:21:44 Gregor: It's not linked to that. 17:21:49 *to readline. 17:21:49 Eel 17:21:50 Eel 17:21:50 Eel 17:21:55 Vorpal: because it's automatic 17:22:05 Gregor: Also, rms explicitly states that his lawyer said that Bruno had to relicense as *GPL*. 17:22:06 I didn't say linked to 17:22:07 I said linked to use 17:22:09 Not GPL-compatible. 17:22:11 Gregor: Linked to use. Define this. 17:22:33 elliott: Compiled using copyrighted headers and linked against the interface of. 17:22:46 "Linked against the interface of" 17:22:53 so if someone releases a set of GPL'd functions 17:23:02 you can't use another library that has functions with the same prototype 17:23:06 because that counts as using gpl'd software? 17:23:07 I think the current wisdom is to do with the definedness of the API 17:23:08 SWEET 17:23:26 elliott: You can't link against THAT HEADER. 17:23:27 elliott, strange that eel translates to "eel-like fish" 17:23:41 Gregor: That header isn't copyrightable. 17:23:46 Vorpal: It's just interwiki. 17:24:00 true 17:24:06 elliott, strange interwiki still 17:24:06 hello sweethearts 17:24:28 `wl en no atom 17:24:34 Atom 17:24:37 ...lame :D 17:25:02 does `wl do "translation" via interwikis? 17:25:03 `wl en no QWERTY 17:25:07 ais523: yes 17:25:09 QWERTY 17:25:16 could be a bit risky, given how interwikis work 17:25:25 ais523: but a bit more too: 17:25:25 OK, I have no time for this silly argument. It is a fact that you can release source under any GPL-compatible license even if it's designed to use a GPL'd library. 17:25:28 Phantom_Hoover: re how currencies are stored: oh, the stories I could tell. 17:25:32 And that is what I claimed. 17:25:46 cpressey_, do tell some of them. 17:25:51 `wl fr Mon_aéroglisseur_est_plein_des_anguilles. 17:25:54 My hovercraft is full of eels. 17:25:55 ais523: ^ 17:26:03 so it's pretty good! 17:26:09 elliott: there's an actual interwiki there? 17:26:17 ais523: no, it interwikis the individual words 17:26:21 and then looks up a word order table online 17:26:33 ais523: (I'm joking; that's its "no translation found" error.) 17:26:49 elliott: From GNU's GPL FAQ: "If a library is released under the GPL (not the LGPL), does that mean that any program which uses it has to be under the GPL or a GPL-compatible license? Yes, because the program as it is actually run includes the library." 17:26:52 `wl en fr My_hovercraft_is_full_of_eels 17:26:54 Note the "GPL-compatible" part 17:27:04 Gregor: Did it say that in the 90s? 17:27:10 X_X 17:27:14 `wl en it My_hovercraft_is_full_of_eels 17:27:40 (picking Italian here, because there is actually an it: interwiki from that article on en...) 17:27:44 elliott: archive.org has only back to 2001, but it said it then :P 17:27:45 Il frasario ungherese 17:27:46 My hovercraft is full of eels. 17:27:58 Ours got swapped. 17:28:04 But yeah, it works to Italian. 17:28:05 I wonder why mine finished before yours? 17:28:13 ais523: Just networking. 17:28:13 < Phantom_Hoover> I'd assume that there are lots. <-- yes, well... that's the thing see... 17:28:16 I'd bet. 17:28:17 elliott: except that it isn't a translation at all 17:28:24 ais523: well, yes 17:28:26 but who cares? 17:28:30 It's for things like this 17:28:30 the interwiki only goes from article covering a subject, to another article covering the subject 17:28:32 `wl sv sill 17:28:34 Atlantic herring 17:28:39 when Vorpal mentioned a fish "sill" 17:28:44 and couldn't remember the english word for it 17:29:39 < elliott> just because it *could* be linked with readline <-- but does this means that all Lisp programs that can use CLISP's readline facilities are also GPL-liable? I wouldn't think so, but... 17:30:08 cpressey_: no, it doesn't apply to interpreters 17:30:15 and compilers have special exceptions 17:30:34 but true, if clisp exposes a readline api 17:30:38 then they get the same treatment 17:30:52 (of course if it renames the functions and jiggles the arguments it's an ~ABSTRACTION LAYER~) 17:31:15 you know, I think RMS may be one of the only people in the world who spreads FUD about his own license 17:31:50 who is this root-mean-squared guy again? 17:32:12 Is that a STATISTICAL term? 17:32:14 stallman? 17:32:22 paul steed. 17:32:38 why would someone called "paul" have an R as their first initial? 17:32:51 ais523, they're anti-Greek? 17:32:52 Ragged Mongrel Stalker 17:32:55 (that said, I've seen people whose initials didn't match their names before, presumably due to one using contractions and the other not...) 17:32:57 because the additional stroke is his big penis 17:33:05 :P 17:34:37 ais523: it's easy for this to happen with titles and other things like that (e.g. Jean-Luc or d'Alembert) 17:35:03 < HackEgo> Eel < HackEgo> Eel < HackEgo> Eel <-- I hear ya, dude. 17:36:07 Phantom_Hoover: the stories would be too depressing 17:36:31 Phantom_Hoover: in reply to? 17:40:55 does anyone know how to draw a hollow square in GIMP? 17:42:53 um, draw a square, select the center, delete? 17:45:20 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:46:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:49:00 < elliott> (of course if it renames the functions and jiggles the arguments it's an ~ABSTRACTION LAYER~) <-- sudo apt-get install rlwrap ;; making the whole thing moot for a whole array of things -- unless it's even worse than I thought 17:49:10 rlwrap is a bit lameish 17:49:13 cpressey_: just use libedit :P 17:49:59 elliott: My haskell programs are at the mercy of the haskell implementation. Is there a pragma for "don't seat me next to rms"? 17:50:56 cpressey_: Just use sufficiently advanced type system hackery. 17:51:00 He's too much of a wimp. 17:51:04 cpressey_: Anyway, GHC uses libedit. 17:51:08 As of a few versions ago. 17:51:35 maybe i'ma gonna have to get a more recent ghc 'cuz i swear... anyway. 17:54:08 Phantom_Hoover: OK, one, but it'll have to be really quick. I was once on a team with a *PhD* who defended his code change which *extracted the only-conventionally-private float member out from the currency object* and did floating point math on it, on the grounds that he was "creating an abstraction" which "the programmer might find easier to use" (presumably because he didn't understand how to use the methods of the currency object.) 17:54:26 -!- augur has joined. 17:54:28 *an abstraction*. 17:54:34 *PhD*. 17:55:15 O.o 17:57:04 wut 17:59:47 but but... how can breaking abstractions be construed as creating them? 18:00:40 http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/ is very topical today 18:01:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:01:29 olsner: *PhD* 18:02:18 olsner: see: n-categories, quantum groups 18:03:14 and probably heaps of other examples in math 18:05:21 oerjan: i want to invent "denotational arrows". they sound like they have such lovely properties. 18:05:33 maybe after lunch 18:07:13 you'd think 18:13:08 -!- cal153 has joined. 18:17:02 oerjan, it was deliberately topical, though. 18:17:36 well yes 18:17:59 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Abandonando). 18:42:29 In which my hair is longer than reality itself: http://i.imgur.com/3tiaR.jpg 18:42:32 (I didn't draw that) 18:44:28 Maybe you should /nick eHAIRd, then. 18:46:27 My hair is about that long, but I do in fact have a properly-formed mouth, non-hollow eyes, and other features. 18:46:28 Such as a body. 18:49:38 LIES 18:50:28 I guess my hair could be hiding the border around my torso there, actually. 18:50:34 SO I GUESS IT IS AN ACCURATE DEPICTION AFTER ALL 18:50:45 Nom nom Graggo eat babies. 18:51:00 ...wat. 18:51:29 NOM NOM GRAGGO[R] EAT BABIES 18:53:37 probably just a local zombie epidemic 18:54:02 Local ... to your living room! 18:54:33 impossible. there are no babies to eat here. 18:55:25 Then I guess I'll just have to settle for YOUUUUU 18:55:30 elliott can be eaten 18:59:31 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:02:04 -!- augur has joined. 19:24:22 one of the problems with a ring language is that you need some program (0) that both does nothing to any program (a = a + 0) and brings every program to its knees (a * 0 = 0). 19:27:44 heh 19:29:29 cpressey_: well if + is "execute in parallel, first one to finish wins" and * is "sequential execution"... 19:29:33 iirc there are other problems with that though 19:29:39 but by those definitions, 0 = _|_ 19:29:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:30:28 elliott: If '+' is FIRST one to finish wins, then a + 0 is 0. 19:30:43 Gregor: Uhh, since when does an infinite-looping program finish first. 19:30:54 Or are you assuming 0 is halts-immediately without any reason to? 19:31:10 Since when is .... ohh, 0 isn't the null program, it is a program that fits its shape in this case X-P 19:32:29 cpressey_: conal wrote a haskell package implementing an operator, let's say +, where a + _|_ = a, _|_ + b = b, and a + b = either a or b when neither a nor b is _|_ 19:32:36 cpressey_: (by just using threads) 19:32:39 but that's basically what + is here 19:32:42 except the a + b case would be defined 19:32:48 it was called race or something 19:34:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:37:24 hi Phantom_Hoover 19:39:44 cpressey_: NetBSD's filesystem is called FFS :D 19:40:00 elliott, was there any practical use for that haskell package? 19:40:11 Vorpal: sure. 19:40:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:40:18 the actual semantics were that it would return whichever succeeded first 19:40:23 ah 19:40:32 okay that is useful 19:40:34 so you could run two algorithms in parallel, both of which have edge-cases that blow up but the other handles 19:40:47 right 19:41:24 < elliott> cpressey_: well if + is "execute in parallel, first one to finish wins" and * is "sequential execution"... <-- you just described Cabra 19:41:34 more or less 19:41:43 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:42:17 cpressey_: then how is it a problem for rings? 19:42:22 also, i thought you had already done that, yeah 19:42:43 elliott: yeah it's not a ring. it's a dioid. it's a problem because of distributivity iirc 19:46:40 so 19:46:49 x SEQ (y PAR z) = (x SEQ y) PAR (x SEQ z) 19:47:00 cpressey_: that doesn't seem so hard to me 19:47:07 or is right-distributivity the issue? 19:47:18 (y PAR z) SEQ x = (y SEQ x) PAR (z SEQ x) 19:47:27 Gregor, btw did I mentioned that I liked that GRegor-op11-StringQuartet-VSTi-2010-10-10.ogg? 19:47:36 cpressey_: admittedly i'm finding it a little hard to reason about this, but I don't see any problem in either of those 19:48:23 Gregor, just wondering one thing: what instruments? There is obviously some strings and something that sounds like a cross between an organ and brass? 19:48:43 `wl en sv arpeggio 19:49:03 Vorpal: It's a string quartet, but the cello in this instrument set has a problem of sounding a bit brassy. 19:49:20 Problem schmoblem, it's a FEATURE! 19:49:48 Gregor, hm, also: VSTi? 19:50:03 No output. 19:50:15 "a lot of people think that a fax machine sends the piece of paper rolled up really tight over the existing lines... these people are very misinformed. it's only the INK that goes over the lines." --reddit 19:50:22 Vorpal: http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=vsti 19:50:25 Vorpal: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=vsti 19:50:26 I mean. 19:50:35 Or even http://www.google.com/search?q=vsti 19:50:36 elliott, both works :P 19:50:39 Vorpal: Oh, btw, http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op11-StringQuartet.ogg is a newer and somewhat improved one. And VSTi == Virtual Studio Technology instrument. It's a system for MIDI instruments that are programmatic rather than patch-based. 19:50:53 Oops! This link appears to be broken. 19:50:58 You fail at web. 19:51:05 * http://codu.org/music/op11/GRegor-op11-StringQuartet.ogg 19:51:22 Gregor, oh I see. Do you mean synthed or something else with "programmatic" here? 19:52:14 Vorpal: Well, both VSTi's and patch-based systems e.g. soundfonts are synthesized, by that I mean that the instruments are actually software, and so can range from patch-based (like existing systems) to full-on physical modeling of the instrument. Usually they're somewhere in between. 19:52:25 ah 19:52:36 Gregor, also soundfont is sampled right? 19:52:38 not synthed 19:53:13 Well, I guess that depends on your definition of "synthesized" ... they're sampled, then those samples are munged around to get the full range, looping, etc. 19:53:30 oh yeah, indeed depends on definition 19:54:21 Gregor, I think the piano is even better btw 19:54:39 3:16 is a bit jarring but I guess that's intentional :p 19:54:46 Gregor, but that could just be due to the "strings sounding like brass" issue 19:55:45 * pikhq gags 19:56:12 pikhq, why? 19:56:19 Apparently, Firefox until 4.0 used a single heap for Javascript stuff... 19:56:35 I'm surprised they've even got all that still set up in a manner that it's *possible* to have a single heap for that. 19:56:44 elliott: i think right distributivity was also a problem, but consider also: every program must have a unique additive inverse. for every program a, there is a unique program b that, when run in parallel, results in _|_. how? 19:56:53 pikhq, do you mean the malloc() heap? 19:56:54 or what 19:56:55 Erm. Well, not possible, but rather sane. 19:56:58 Vorpal: The GC heap. 19:57:03 pikhq, *oh* 19:57:07 cpressey_: The additive inverse of a program a is a program that does the opposite of a at every step. 19:57:11 pikhq, indeed, very strange 19:57:21 Vorpal: A single heap for *every individual bit of Javascript* running. 19:57:25 So, for instance, if a at one step makes the flag it's looping on to false, the additive inverse will set it to true at the same time. 19:57:27 Okay, so that's a clash. 19:57:29 But it's an idea! 19:57:30 Vorpal: Keep in mind that the *UI* is in Javascript. 19:57:36 ... And XUL. 19:57:40 pikhq, yeah 19:57:45 it's easier to have a global heap than to keep stuff apart :P 19:58:17 olsner: Except that they should have been running each tab in a seperate thread for ages now. 19:58:29 olsner: Making a global GC heap a *royal pain* to do well. 19:58:41 Unless, of course, you just stop the world, defeating the whole point. 19:58:44 really? I didn't think firefox threaded at all 19:58:57 That... Explains even more of its suckitude. 19:59:18 pikhq, separate threads. Well, I have 38 tabs open. It's a single threaded machine. Chrome is way slower than firefox on this box 19:59:24 when it comes to such things 19:59:31 and it uses even more RAM 19:59:32 than firefox 19:59:58 olsner: Threading should be kinda the natural structure there... 20:00:10 okay, so v8d beats firefox sometimes, sure. But the whole thing is sluggish in general 20:00:12 Vorpal: Are you looking at top and summing the RAM reported? 20:00:16 has someone said VST 20:00:27 Vorpal: If so, you're a moron. 20:00:32 you know, the funny thing about vsts is that they all sound the same 20:00:34 pikhq, no, I'm checking free -m after echo 5 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches 20:00:38 pikhq: opera is single-threaded :) 20:00:43 the only thing that changes is the interface 20:00:47 with empty firefox and empty chrome open respectively 20:00:47 olsner: *gag* 20:01:05 Vorpal: Ah, *empty*. See, where Firefox gets you is when you *use* it. 20:01:23 firefox gets so hogged up by open websites 20:01:26 it is terrible 20:01:27 pikhq, test same with 10 tabs open. The difference is smaller, but still there. Also firefox is faster. 20:01:35 I don't think threading has ever been the natural state for browsers - you're usually displaying a single tab on a single screen on (at least in the past) a single cpu 20:01:37 I hesitate to call it snappy, because none of them is 20:01:40 Vorpal: Which Firefox, which distroy? 20:01:42 Distro. 20:01:55 it's like i'm using a website and every action/click and every time i scroll makes firefox add a usleep(5) at the end of its event loop 20:01:56 from there, you'd rather go multi-process on it than to introduce yucky deadlocky racey threads 20:01:58 olsner: The thing is, 1 thread *per tab* seems very natural. 20:02:01 pikhq, distro is arch linux. Firefox is one called namoroka. 3.6.10 20:02:10 olsner: I mean, there's almost no communication between them. 20:02:11 olsner: wrong 20:02:16 olsner: all tabs are being run at the same time 20:02:19 elliott: but then how does it become _|_ in the end, rather than nop? 20:02:35 pikhq, and chromium version? Not sure, I uninstalled it after my tests. Was about half a month ago I tested 20:02:41 and last version at that time 20:02:43 pikhq: sharing of caches and pre-compiled DOMs and other objects 20:02:44 cpressey_: well if a then loops on the flag, if -a gets it false rather than a getting it true, it... 20:02:46 cpressey_: hmm 20:02:59 Vorpal: 7.0.517.36, built from the ebuild www-browser/chromium 20:03:02 pikhq, same for firefox, so firefox might have been at 3.6.9, same first two digits 20:03:06 cpressey_: do we need -(-a) too? 20:03:08 yeah i think we do 20:03:08 er 20:03:09 = a 20:03:28 I don't think threading has ever been the natural state for browsers - you're usually displaying a single tab on a single screen on (at least in the past) a single cpu <-- indeed 20:03:30 not saying it's not possible, obviously, just harder than it looks at first glance 20:03:55 cheater99: what do you mean "wrong"? 20:04:03 cpressey_: we even need foo + -foo to work even if foo is just like... increment by one 20:04:04 hmm 20:04:17 cpressey_: ok, maybe 0 isn't _|_ then 20:04:18 olsner: "youre displaying a single tab on a single screen" is wrong train of thought. 20:04:38 a + 0 = a; a * 0 = 0 20:04:46 Firefox Mobile (Fennec) has that Electrolysis thing, which puts browser UI, web-content rendering and plugins in completely separate processes; I'm not sure if it's one process per tab, chromium-like, or something else. 20:04:50 cpressey_: wait 20:04:50 cheater99: Okay, but it *still* seems like you'd want to do threading for that. 20:04:57 cpressey_: _|_ doesn't necessarily mean loop forever! 20:04:59 cpressey_: it can just mean fail 20:05:09 pikhq: i'd just have separate threads for separate domains 20:05:11 s'all 20:05:16 a + 0 = a; -- 0 raises the error but + ignores it and picks the other 20:05:16 fizzie, sounds like a rather large and invasive change 20:05:23 a * 0 = 0; -- a runs, then 0 runs and flags an error 20:05:24 cpressey_: ^ 20:05:35 cheater99: IMO the common case is that you have only one tab visible at a time 20:05:46 Vorpal: Maybe, but they've implemented it in the recently-released beta. 20:05:47 cpressey_: then we just have, for every instruction a, -a which is a version of a, say, with the Flag An Error For No Reason flag on 20:05:48 olsner: and that doesn't mean jack 20:05:52 cpressey_: so -(-a) = a because it flips it twice 20:05:54 olsner: because of what i told you earlier 20:05:58 olsner: Aaaand all the tabs *still have things to do*. 20:05:59 fizzie, as in "difficult to keep code synced to standard browser" 20:06:00 and -a always throws an error for a "positive" (non-erroring a) 20:06:03 cpressey_: -0 is just 0 20:06:08 olsner: Javascript doesn't just stop because the page isn't being rendered. 20:06:17 not only javascript 20:06:17 olsner: Nor does Flash (the abomination). 20:06:20 everything 20:06:26 layout, dom, http 20:06:34 Indeed. 20:06:47 Vorpal: I think at least the "out-of-process plugins" bit is something they're trying to put into the desktop browser too. 20:06:50 which is the crucial matter to showing how failed all the internet standards are 20:07:04 fizzie, good idea 20:07:05 Basically, to do a tabbed interface, you are having to either implement something vaguely similar to multiple processes or *actually do that*. 20:07:15 this single situation shows they were all invented by idiots and cobbled together by human-monkey crosses 20:07:19 Because it's all running stuff. 20:07:41 you have 20 facebook tabs open 20:07:44 only one is showing at a time 20:08:00 they all use the exact same framework, exact same objects just copies of them, exact same layout 20:08:03 Presumably Firefox, Opera, etc. are just implementing a scheduler on a single thread... 20:08:11 yet, they all have to be calculated 20 times! 20:08:17 how idiotic is that? 20:08:20 fizzie, has there been any updates on the n900-replacement front? I guess you are likely to know this better than me. 20:08:20 the answer is: very idiotic. 20:08:29 pikhq: so they're cooperatively threaded then :P 20:09:01 Vorpal: The plugin thing seems to be the first bullet point in the "what to release in Firefox in 2010 after 3.6" roadmap: "Multi-process plugins (Flash crashes/instability don't bring down the browser)" 20:09:02 cheater99, very. 20:09:08 olsner: Which is, ah, moronic. 20:09:21 Vorpal: Do you mean hardware-wise, or software-wise? 20:09:22 pikhq, they could be timeshared? 20:09:27 fizzie, hardware wise 20:09:41 -!- realazthat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:09:45 pikhq: i love the fact that in firefox 3.5 the freaking websites and http/rendering engine lock up the fucking gui 20:09:51 how idiotic is THAT? 20:10:02 pikhq: among other things, such a structure allows you to run on operating systems that don't have threads :) 20:10:05 fizzie, hm isn't plugins separate processes already? I seem to remember that killall java works well when java in firefox hangs 20:10:07 -!- realazthat has joined. 20:10:27 olsner: which is something that is only interesting to you personally. 20:10:35 Vorpal: Possibly some plugins (like java) do their own "another process + IPC" thing, but it's not comprehensively so. 20:10:38 Vorpal: yes, they are. 20:10:42 fizzie, ah 20:10:53 flash is a separate process too 20:10:55 fwiu 20:11:02 olsner: Yes, yes, the *highly important* DOS port. 20:11:27 Vorpal: That's just how Java's implemented. 20:11:28 At least nspluginwrapper needs to do a separate process; possibly Linux Flash in general. I think on Windows it might not necessarily be. 20:11:35 cheater99: Only if you use nspluginwrapper. 20:11:39 elliott: might work 20:11:46 pikhq: which happens without my knowledge 20:11:50 fizzie, so what about the hw replacement thing? 20:11:53 fizzie: No, it is very much just run in the same process. 20:11:58 fizzie, I haven't heard anything more about n9 20:12:37 cheater99: it is interesting for everyone who wants a browser on such an OS :) 20:12:39 cpressey_: TOTALLY WILL get speccing 20:12:58 cpressey_: (even if giving every command an error flag is weird...) 20:13:14 Vorpal: Well, they officially announced the Symbian^3 "flagship" models back then, I think it was somewhat discussed. All the rest is just rumours; there's been some more N9 rumours too, including specs, but they're all out-of-someone's-hat stuff. 20:13:30 fizzie, hm 20:13:53 fizzie, presumably they are not just going to drop meego? 20:14:18 Vorpal: I guess it's pretty safe to say that N9 will do capacitive multitouch; rumour has it it'll be built on the Qualcomm SnapDragon 1GHz platform, and do MeeGo. 20:14:41 fizzie, does n900 use resistive? 20:14:48 Yes. 20:14:59 fizzie, so the n9 won't work with gloves on in the winter? 20:15:23 Maybe if you get one of those capacitive-stylus tips for each of your fingertips in the glove. 20:15:29 -!- wareya_ has joined. 20:15:36 capacitive stylus works with capacitive 20:15:38 not resistive 20:15:40 LOSE 20:15:47 cheater: Yes, but we were talking about the N9. 20:16:51 Vorpal: Well, the N900 PR1.3 firmware, which is supposed to be out "soon", will make it "easy" (blog-post quotations) to dual-boot between Maemo and latest-weekly-MeeGo-image (via kexec, I think), so there's something going on on the MeeGo front. 20:17:20 fizzie, hm 20:17:23 Vorpal: Oh, and latest MeeGo-on-N900 can make phone calls (with the oFono stuff) already. :p 20:17:24 Things I didn't expect to see today: A 43-minute dramatisation of Karen Carpenter's anorexia played entirely by Barbie dolls. 20:17:34 fizzie, "oFono"? 20:18:37 Vorpal: It's "a free, open source project for mobile telephony (GSM/UMTS) applications"; an Intel/Nokia project. Something like an (dbus-based) API for apps that want to do something related to phone calls. 20:19:02 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:19:25 fizzie, UMTS, is that same as GPRS or same as 3G? 20:19:30 3G. 20:19:34 ah nice 20:20:07 But of course it's only an application-level API, the actual low-level stacks will still probably be binary blobs. 20:20:26 dbus-based? :/ 20:20:40 Though I think I heard something open-sourcey modemy things in a MeeGo context too. Haven't really looked very closely at it. 20:20:47 hm does it send the voice data over dbus too? 20:20:52 sounds gnome:ish - will I have to fiddle with 7 concurrent sound API:s to make phone calls work then? 20:20:54 Why does NetBSD suck at installing in QEMU? 20:21:06 olsner: "'" 20:21:07 Vorpal: No, that's done with pulse, I think. I'm not sure if oFono mandates that, though. 20:21:08 elliott: Eff you. 20:21:16 pikhq: Cunt 20:21:21 (I like to think pikhq just insults me for no reason) 20:21:25 :P 20:21:30 elliott: API's and gnome'ish? 20:21:34 olsner: yes 20:21:57 I sort of would like to see a nice telephony API; I've always wanted to stick one of those horrible navigate-through automated phone menus (maybe with some command-recognition and speech synthesis) on my phone. I don't get phone calls from anyone else than telemarketers, anyway. 20:22:17 olsner, hm yeah I think that was a Swedishism 20:22:22 I usually use "'" for that stuff in swedish, where I believe : is what you're supposed to do 20:22:31 olsner, XD 20:22:38 olsner: seriously? 20:22:38 olsner, just swap the behaviours then 20:22:39 bizarre 20:22:53 I'd just say APIs though 20:22:55 API's is weird 20:23:00 OSs is less clear 20:23:02 OSes, perhaps 20:23:04 elliott, "API:er" would be the way to pluarlise it in Swedish I believe 20:23:17 Y'know, the entire telephone infrastructure sucks. 20:23:21 though I have to admit I'm not 100% certain 20:23:26 LET'S REINVENT THE TELEPHONE 20:23:37 pikhq, mostly in US 20:23:41 later 20:23:42 pikhq, less so in Europe 20:23:45 "Please repeat the next thirty words after the beep to make me answer the phone." "Sorry, my speech recognition system was built by the lowest bidder; please repeat." "No, I still didn't quite get it: please repeat." "Sorry, reached the limit on the number of attempts you are allowed to do. Better luck next time." 20:23:45 LET'S REINVENT ELECTRICITY 20:23:57 elliott: at least for acronyms with suffixes it's ':', gnomeish would just be gnomskt or something like that 20:24:05 GNOMSKT 20:24:06 For some reason it makes sense to run copper wires from a gigantic Internet-connected computer to a microphone & speaker, alongside the Internet signal. 20:24:14 fizzie, :D 20:24:29 Rather than just... Use the Internet for all but the last few feet. 20:24:45 pikhq, historic reasons 20:24:54 (yes, pretty much everything but the last mile is already on the Internet) 20:25:08 pikhq, also, for me the internet signal goes over that copper wire (ADSL) 20:25:15 -!- cpressey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:25:29 Vorpal: Yes, and it should damned well be replaced. 20:25:33 elliott: elliottskt 20:25:39 elliott:ski 20:25:53 pikhq: fibre optic! 20:25:57 pikhq, it works well. *shrug* 20:25:59 Especially in the US, where fiber-to-the-home was *paid for 15 years ago*. 20:26:13 pikhq, by whom? 20:26:17 Also there's the reliability argument; no-one wants packet loss on their emergency calls. 20:26:20 the taxpayer, probably 20:26:22 Vorpal: The United States of America. 20:26:26 fizzie, indeed! 20:26:37 pikhq, and it never happened? 20:26:43 Vorpal: We gave a few *billion* in tax credits to phone companies for the purpose of funding fiber-to-the-home. 20:26:47 pikhq, then why the fuck don't they demand the money back 20:26:54 The phone companies responding by doing fuck all. 20:27:03 Vorpal: because the US is a corporatocracy 20:27:07 pikhq, didn't they give it with a clause attached? 20:27:13 see: bailout 20:27:17 They did. But the US is a corporatocracy. 20:27:21 elliott, oh good point 20:29:00 And now we wonder why the Internet sucks. 20:30:40 Another thing: there is *absolutely no point in all* in how cable service is usually done here. We use a few channels on the cable for Internet, and all the rest for TV. Instead of multicast IP, and just offering a few gigabits/sec Internet... 20:31:05 -!- cpressey_ has joined. 20:31:11 1791035613 [main] irssi 3988 exception::handle: Exception: STATUS_ACCESS_VIOLATION 20:31:11 pikhq: Hey! I need my TV. 20:31:15 Of course, to make that sane we'd need to have multicast on the public Internet. 20:31:26 Gregor: Imagine plugging an Ethernet jack into it. 20:31:35 pikhq, Aren't there a limit to number of multicast groups iirc? 20:31:44 pikhq: No, you'd only need multicast on the cable networks' local networks. 20:31:57 Hell, you'd really only need broadcast flood. 20:32:03 Gregor: No, you see, the idea is you get the TV signal directly from the broadcaster. 20:32:03 pikhq, also there is a sense to that. You would easily overrun the backbone 20:32:09 pikhq: Ah 20:32:12 if every american had a few gbps to his computer 20:32:30 pikhq, you would need to scale up the backbone a LOT 20:32:32 Gregor: Imagine being able to watch any TV signal *in the world*. 20:32:35 Vorpal: We should! 20:32:56 Fuck building things around TV. 20:33:15 elliott, agreed 20:33:17 We dictate your audio-visual schedule for the day! Put us in your living room. 20:33:20 Vorpal: If the US cut off, say, 1/4 of the "defense" budget, it could pay for the necessary upgrades this year. 20:33:25 Vorpal: I have no problem at all with watching tons of TV material. 20:33:31 I just dislike the scheduled format. 20:33:34 pikhq, indeed 20:33:39 pikhq, fat chance though 20:33:45 pikhq: You fool! That goes to the Stargate program. 20:33:53 Didn't you *watch* SG-1? 20:33:59 elliott, indeed 20:34:00 Sgeo will be so sad 20:34:04 elliott, did I say something else? 20:34:16 Vorpal: Nope. 20:34:25 cpressey_: It is actually a very good show, despite Sgeo liking it :) 20:34:26 Vorpal: If the phone companies actually used the gigantic funds they get to increase infrastructure, *they* could have it done by now. 20:34:39 elliott: The Stargate program is a broom closet. Honest. 20:34:52 pikhq: Biggest. Broom closet. EVER. 20:35:06 Cheyenne Mountain Broom Closet 20:35:08 pikhq, yeah, Well they did in Sweden to some degree. Except we had less gigantic funds. Oh and I found out my ISP is IPv6 ready except for last mile basically. 20:35:23 they are working on that now, last I heard 20:35:29 I want to start an ISP sometime. 20:35:40 elliott, xs4uk? 20:35:51 Actually I wish I was around in the days where an ISP could consist of a rack in your basement and a line from the phone company. 20:35:55 Vorpal: God dammit if we could just support multicast on the public Internet. 20:36:07 You know, when you actually had tiny little -- even "indie" -- ISPs. 20:36:09 elliott: go to ukraine 20:36:12 pikhq, hm, that would only work well for scheduled tv 20:36:12 elliott: or croatia 20:36:14 Vorpal: That would actually make there be much less bandwidth usage. 20:36:29 Vorpal: xs4uk is cool but MEH :P 20:36:36 erm 20:36:38 xs4all 20:36:39 elliott, they exist? 20:36:41 ah yes 20:36:42 i thought you said xs4all 20:36:43 i swear 20:36:47 * elliott shakes brain 20:37:04 pikhq, it doesn't work for the case of 10000 people watching a youtube video, because most of them would out of sync with each other 20:37:06 Vorpal: I don't plan to live in the UK :P 20:37:29 Vorpal: You can actually do multicast file sharing. Repeat the broadcast continually to host it. The problem is that it can't stream too well. 20:37:31 elliott, well, about starting an ISP I mean. You don't have a sane one over there in UK do you? 20:37:35 I'll probably go to university in another country, and I don't feel a particular inclination to stay in the UK when I leave. 20:37:41 pikhq, indeed 20:37:46 Vorpal: http://www.bogons.net/ 20:37:50 elliott, ah yes 20:37:52 Vorpal: Would work wonderfully for things like a podcast, though. 20:38:04 Vorpal: also https://www.bethere.co.uk/web/beportal/homepage 20:38:08 pikhq, depends on if you watch podcast in real time or not 20:38:13 err 20:38:14 listen to 20:38:15 not watch 20:38:20 (or maybe watch too?) 20:38:22 Vorpal: less indie, but faster and cheaper 20:38:27 Vorpal: and still pretty savvy 20:38:28 Vorpal: No, no, you just *use the multicast to download it*... 20:38:34 Vorpal: As opposed to http... 20:38:36 pikhq: I approve. 20:38:41 pikhq: HTTP over Multicast :D 20:38:48 Or vice versa. 20:38:58 Or any other such prerecorded thing where you can expect there to be a lot of people downloading it within a certain time frame. 20:39:23 pikhq: NOWAIT 20:39:33 pikhq: Implement a BitTorrent extension for multicast seeders. 20:39:39 Vorpal: http://www.bogons.net/ <-- better web page design than the other one! ;P 20:39:39 elliott: Beautiful. 20:39:53 Combine this with web seeds -- which already exist -- and the regular tracker/DHT thing, and tada. 20:40:01 pikhq, yeah like the iwc podcasts! ;P 20:40:02 Just take down the multicast seed after a short while. 20:40:12 Vorpal: be redesigned recently 20:40:13 On IPv4, you've got a /4 worth of possible multicast groups. 20:40:17 it's ... not the best redesign 20:40:21 (2^28-1) 20:40:22 recently=year ro two 20:41:00 Vorpal: http://images.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/1595-website.jpg their old design, silly ad but more reasonable design 20:41:05 On IPv6, you've a /8 worth of possible multicast groups. 20:41:12 (2^120-1) 20:41:19 Vorpal: Oh yeah, and they have an IRC server for users: http://irc.beusergroup.co.uk:8080/?channels=Be 20:41:33 elliott, hah! 20:41:33 Well, okay, run by the usergroup, but Be links to it from their site. 20:41:34 Oh, wait. Only 112 of the bits are for actual groups. 20:41:39 2^112-1 possible groups. 20:41:47 Which is still quite absurd. 20:42:03 coffee kills 20:42:23 ... 2^122-1 possible groups *per scope*. 20:42:56 Interface-local, link-local, admin-local, site-local, organization-local, and global scopes are currently defined. Each with their own group-space. 20:43:21 pikhq, what scope is ::1 ? 20:43:35 Vorpal: Not a multicast address. 20:43:41 pikhq, oh true 20:44:02 2^112-1 possible groups. ... 2^122-1 possible groups *per scope*. 20:44:14 pikhq, so less in total than per scope? 20:44:20 or a typo? 20:44:24 Typo. 20:44:32 pikhq, which is the actual number then? 20:44:44 2^112-1 per scope. 20:44:47 ah 20:44:58 pikhq, also wtf is "admin-local"? 20:45:01 the other ones I know 20:45:11 or wait, I never seen interface-local either 20:45:42 hm... 20:45:43 [1732343.022354] atkbd serio0: Unknown key pressed (translated set 2, code 0x7c on isa0060/serio0). 20:45:44 [1732343.022364] atkbd serio0: Use 'setkeycodes 7c ' to make it known. 20:45:46 Local to the group of administrative configuration. 20:45:47 that happens from time to time 20:46:00 I have no clue what key 20:46:24 I seem unable to trigger it intentionalluy 20:46:28 intentionally* 20:46:31 pikhq: The current IPv6 addressing architecture spech limits the group ID to 32 bits; "While this limits the number of permanent IPv6 multicast groups to 2^32 this is unlikely to be a limitation in the future. If it becomes necessary to exceed this limit in the future multicast will still work but the processing will be sightly slower." 20:46:47 (It's because the mapping from IPv6 multicast groups to Ethernet MAC addresses takes the 32 lowest bits.) 20:46:51 fizzie: That's silly. They reserve 112 bits for the group ID. 20:47:06 pikhq: Yes, and top 80 bits of those 112 are "reserved must be zero". 20:47:13 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2373.txt 2.7.2. 20:47:16 That's silly. 20:47:34 Still, that's IPv4-space of possible multicast groups... 20:47:47 wait, the *upper* 80? 20:48:03 how does that work with the MAC thingy then...? 20:48:07 Which is probably quite reasonable for the amount of people that will want to actually broadcast stuff. 20:48:29 pikhq, unless something changes. Which is quite possible 20:48:37 like a new thing using multicast is invented 20:48:53 Vorpal: That 4 billion people want to broadcast from. 20:48:53 Vorpal: Upper 80 are zero, lower 32 are taken as the MAC address. 20:48:54 and we need to go ipv7 or whatever 20:49:05 why on earth does linux use letters for drive names? 20:49:09 pikhq, "we will never need 4 billion IPs" 20:49:19 pikhq, "640 kB is enough for everyone" 20:49:27 yeah, we heard this before a number of times! 20:49:33 /dev/sda0 is silly, e.g. /dev/sd0p0 would be better 20:49:39 Vorpal: Anyway, like it says it's "easy" (for some values of) to extend the addressing to full 112 bits without having to move from IPv6 to anything. 20:49:40 elliott, agreed 20:49:44 elliott, you could change it, udev 20:49:55 Vorpal: yeah i'll just break everything for a minor issue :) 20:50:21 Vorpal: There's also the thing about how IPv4 does not have a 1-to-1 mapping from IPs to devices, unlike group IDs would. 20:50:22 Wasn't it so that devfs already made the paths more "logical"? (Then those went away when devfs died.) 20:50:32 Vorpal: Every time you create a subnet, you've made 2 addresses unusable. 20:50:33 fizzie: you have the LOVELY LOVELY GUID PATHS 20:50:38 but only people with OCD use those 20:50:45 elliott, I'm not sure that stuff will break, it already handles stuff like /dev/md0, /dev/hda, /dev/sda, /dev/sr0 and several more 20:50:53 I believe some hardware raid have their own too 20:50:55 Vorpal: yeah but e.g. default arguments to tools 20:50:58 i dunno 20:51:01 elliott: Yes, but there was in devfs something like .../bus0/lun0/disk0/part0. 20:51:02 it's still a bit pointless 20:51:13 fizzie: Looks like OpenFirmware disk identifiers. 20:51:21 "So, whereas /dev/hda4 was used previously, we now have /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part4. This is far more easy... no, don't argue with me... it is easier... ah whatever! :) " 20:51:31 elliott, sure you need to update your boot loader config and fstab. Possibly a few more things, but nothing more than if stuff changed from /dev/sda to /dev/sdb 20:51:32 Convincing. 20:51:38 Also the hda/sda thing is a bit silly. 20:51:47 "We totally had to change all the names, don't you get it? We CHANGED INTERNAL IMPLEMENTATIONS." 20:52:14 elliott, um. Well that name change proves that changing it again would be trivial 20:52:20 elliott: The internal implementation no longer makes a distinction between IDE and SCSI and SATA. 20:52:28 pikhq, indeed 20:52:32 just a case of changing bootloader config and fstab 20:52:33 Doesn't the Ubuntu installer put UUID paths to /etc/fstab by default? 20:52:33 that is about it 20:52:34 pikhq: Meh. :p 20:52:36 fizzie: I think so. 20:52:38 fizzie, it does 20:52:41 debian-installer probably does too 20:52:47 (it's all ATA over the wire) 20:52:58 fizzie, except it breaks in a lot of cases. Well "a lot" is maybe stretching it 20:53:03 pikhq: Better question - why did it ever distinguish them? 20:53:03 what is lun?\ 20:53:08 dm-crypt, lvm, software raid 20:53:09 Why didn't SATA just get put into the hd* namespace? 20:53:10 elliott: Hysterical raisins. 20:53:19 Well, for LVM it's all just /dev/mapper/volgroup-volname. 20:53:19 you can't do the UUID stuff reliably then 20:53:21 and shouldn't 20:53:23 And why is it acceptable in /dev/ to indicate hierarchy by name prefixes? 20:53:43 elliott, good question, it is moving away from that though, /dev/usb and so on 20:53:45 Vorpal: The UUID stuff is part of the filesystem, not the device. 20:53:49 cheater99: "Logical Unit Number" or some-such; it's for something like the different drives in a CD jukebox that uses a single SCSI device. 20:53:52 I LOVE HYSTERICAL RAISINS 20:53:57 ok\ 20:53:59 Probably Unix 0.00000001 didn't have nested directories. 20:53:59 0 20:54:17 elliott: haha 20:54:40 elliott: no. it's just that resolving an inode was sloooooooooooooooooow on winchesters. 20:54:42 cpressey_: 1 20:55:03 elliott, -1 20:55:07 (balanced ternary) 20:55:32 Vorpal: Like that system emulator. 20:55:40 elliott, hm? which one? 20:56:00 16:40:56 http://www.acc.umu.se/~achtt315/tunguska/ Ternary system emulator. 20:56:00 16:41:05 With a ternary-C-dialect compiler! 20:56:00 16:41:10 I approve to an insane degree. 20:56:00 16:41:17 "It is loosely based on the excellent design of the (binary) 6502-processor by MOS Technology, but entirely ternary. So instead of having two memory cell states (0, 1), it has three (-1, 0, 1)." 20:56:00 16:41:58 pikhq: ^ Impossibly awesome 20:56:01 16:41:59 http://www.acc.umu.se/~achtt315/tunguska/shots/tunguska_gtk.png 20:56:04 16:42:02 It even has a display! 20:56:06 16:42:05 And a command-line on this display! 20:56:08 --yesterday 20:56:17 elliott, anyway, balanced ternary is IMO one of the most confusing numeral systems ever invented. 20:56:21 ternary is okay 20:56:26 but balanced ternary? blergh 20:56:32 "Why must californian grape farms be regularly sprayed with sedatives?" 20:56:33 I don't know if it actually uses it as -1. 20:56:38 It's used as a third logical state, at least. 20:56:51 hm 20:56:59 elliott, perfect for SQL then ;) 20:57:08 That was 101-1-101 hours ago! 20:57:22 cpressey_: ...wat. 20:57:24 hm 20:57:25 umu.se 20:57:27 that explains it 20:57:33 "They're all crazy there." 20:57:44 a number in balanced ternary: 1,0,1,-1,-1,0,1 20:57:50 ah 20:57:50 :D 20:57:52 elliott, Umeå Universitet. WAY up north 20:58:05 Vorpal: And ... what is that supposed to mean? 20:58:05 udev changelog in gentoo: "This release removes the devfs names for the tty and consolde devices, and the symlinks that were implementing the LSB standard names. We only implement the LSB names now, which saves over 3Mb of RAM on /dev." -- that's quite a lot of names. 20:58:21 elliott, they have to be crazy, or they wouldn't live where you can get -50°C in the winter! 20:58:42 wtf 20:58:48 gentoo is craptastic 21:00:03 I seem to recall that Debian had the devfs names provided by udev rules at some point as a compatibility kludge too. They don't seem to be there any more now, though. 21:00:49 elliott: no it's because of hysterical raisins, silly 21:00:50 elliott, I heard a story from someone who was up there one winter (due to work, he had no choice). It was -49°C outside. He went from the hotel to the opposite side of the square it was located at. By the time he reached that side his moustache had frozen solid from the exhaled wet air. 21:01:03 Vorpal: I approve. 21:01:10 elliott, hah 21:01:30 elliott, yeah, anyone insane enough to live in such conditions has to be crazy. 21:01:40 Anyone insane enough ... has to be crazy. 21:01:49 elliott, indeed! 21:02:20 elliott, only lunatics would be insane enough though! 21:02:22 Heh, Wikipedia using zorkmid as a metasyntactic currency. 21:02:33 elliott, on which page? 21:02:36 There's still the /dev/disk/by-path/ symlinks; but then it's something like /dev/disk/by-path/pci-0000:00:11.0-scsi-0:0:0:0-part1 instead of /dev/sda1. 21:02:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_ternary 21:02:44 Paragraph starting "Similarly, a currency system using ternary values would save visits to the bank". 21:03:00 "Donald Knuth has pointed out that truncation and rounding are the same operation in balanced ternary — they produce exactly the same result." 21:03:01 I approve. 21:03:42 "Multiplication by two can be done by adding a number to itself." Really now. 21:04:04 YES 21:04:09 IT'S TRUE 21:04:13 YES 21:04:33 "The sky would remain blue and essentially unchanged." 21:04:49 YES 21:05:39 there _might_ be more double rainbows, though 21:05:49 (for balance) 21:07:25 cpressey_: I'm installing NetBSD in a VM to test. 21:07:36 elliott: Of *course* it runs NetBSD. 21:08:04 fizzie: McDonald's -- I'm Lovin' It 21:08:08 (Let us all quote slogans!) 21:08:16 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/RonaldMcDonald-trademarkia-originaltrademark1967.jpg dear god 21:08:20 "Housut pois ja hoitoon." 21:08:30 Your mother, all night long. 21:08:55 fizzie: Connecting People 21:08:59 elliott, " 21:08:59 So, the purpose is to provide a simple and accessible, yet powerful playground for ternary computing for the man in the street (with a decent understanding of assembly programming and general computer infrastructure). " XD 21:09:24 fizzie: Interesting slogan... 21:09:31 `wl fi Housut_pois_ja_hoitoon 21:09:39 Wonder if it has an... 21:09:41 `wl en fi article 21:09:55 Wonder if it has an... 21:10:02 no, finnish has no articles. 21:10:08 Wonder if it has an... 21:10:17 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/RonaldMcDonald-trademarkia-originaltrademark1967.jpg dear god <-- sure it isn't vandalism? 21:10:38 elliott, hm, what about a 4-state logic system? 21:10:41 Vorpal: two revisions, only extra one is a whitespace crop 21:10:49 elliott, hm 21:11:26 "Their symbol is $, although this should not be taken to mean the zorkmid exchange rate is pegged to the US dollar." 21:11:29 --nethack.wikia.com 21:11:38 elliott, old :P 21:11:50 Status: Running 21:11:54 Command: /bin/sh MAKEDEV all 21:11:56 Slow MAKEDEV is slow. 21:12:02 hm 21:12:12 they're using a currency basket, of course 21:12:13 elliott, anyway, what about a 4-state logic system, instead of the classical binary or ternary ones 21:12:28 elliott, or why not a decimal computer. That would be interesting 21:12:31 89345-state logic system 21:12:37 10 logical states, I wonder what you could use that for 21:12:41 Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_computer 21:12:41 No output. 21:12:45 Many early computers, for example the ENIAC, IBM 702, IBM 705, IBM 650, IBM 1401, IBM 1620, IBM NORC, IBM 7070, IBM 7080, UNIVAC I, UNIVAC II and UNIVAC III used decimal arithmetic (IBM 1401 addresses were a combination of decimal and binary arithmetic). 21:12:54 My hovercraft is full of eels. 21:12:54 uh oh, HackEgo is broke 21:12:58 huh or bugged 21:12:59 elliott, not decimal logo though? 21:13:00 err 21:13:02 logic* 21:13:04 weird typo 21:13:19 `run wl fi Housut_pois_ja_hoitoon 2>&1 21:13:35 My hovercraft is full of eels. 21:14:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:14:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 21:14:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:14:08 `run wl en fi article 2>&1 21:14:20 elliott, what is the point of BCD for general computing.... BCD for controlling 7-segment displays: sure. But for general computing? 21:14:33 Artikkeli 21:14:38 Vorpal: Who knows. 21:14:45 cpressey_: Quote from the NetBSD installer: 21:14:50 Password cipher 21:14:51 a: DES 21:14:53 b: MD5 21:14:54 elliott, but I mean, x86 supports it, and lots of mainframes does 21:14:56 c: Blowfish 2^7 round 21:14:57 d: SHA1 21:14:58 there has to be a reason 21:14:59 a is the default :D 21:15:00 -!- cal153 has quit. 21:15:05 YES LET'S ENCRYPT MY PASSWORD WITH DES 21:15:11 Not even triple! 21:15:19 Vorpal: hysterical ones relating to raisins. 21:15:25 ah 21:15:28 elliott, go for whirlpool 21:15:31 if it is supported 21:15:33 Oh yeah, it even says that DES will only encode the first eight characters. 21:15:35 elliott, why? the name is cool 21:15:36 Vorpal: I quoted all the options. 21:15:40 elliott, ouch 21:15:40 I'm going to go with Blowfish. 21:15:45 not even SHA512 21:15:47 that sucks 21:15:52 There's probably some way to do it. 21:15:54 Just not in the installer. 21:16:05 elliott, on linux you would set that in PAM 21:16:07 I don't think there are any known flaws in Blowfish. 21:16:19 And, well, Bruce Schneier. 21:16:21 So. 21:16:28 google translate doesn't seem to know "hoisut" 21:16:40 oerjan: it said "remove pants for a treat" for me 21:16:41 i think 21:16:46 Vorpal: "Blowfish provides a good encryption rate in software and no effective cryptanalysis of it has been found to date. However, the Advanced Encryption Standard now receives more attention." 21:16:50 so blowfish should be good 21:16:58 especially with 128 rounds 21:17:01 aha 21:17:06 elliott, "There remains no known way to break the full 16 rounds, apart from a brute-force search." 21:17:10 hm 21:17:18 Vorpal: 128 rounds in NetBSD 21:17:20 elliott, more rounds can sometimes be bad iirc 21:17:30 Vorpal: I sorta trust the BSD guys to not pick a retarded number of rounds. 21:17:46 elliott, for some cryptos there is some best number somewhere, less is worse, but also more is worse 21:17:48 elliott, indeed 21:17:57 Vorpal: Oh, and bcrypt is Blowfish. 21:18:04 elliott, mhm? 21:18:05 elliott: To be completely honest, it's not actually a slogan. 21:18:11 Vorpal: So there's not really anything to worry about. 21:18:15 fizzie: I *did* Google it. 21:18:24 elliott, what slogan? 21:18:36 Vorpal: "Housut pois ja hoitoon." 21:18:51 Root shell 21:18:53 >a: /bin/sh 21:18:54 b: /bin/ksh 21:18:56 c: /bin/csh 21:19:02 WHAT A DIFFICULT DECISION 21:19:07 I wonder what /bin/sh is on NetBSD? 21:19:39 Ah, their own. 21:19:40 Not ksh though. 21:19:49 * elliott just selects ksh 21:19:55 zsh! 21:20:11 Phantom_Hoover: is not part of BSD. 21:20:12 -!- French has joined. 21:20:12 This spam brought to you by: #freenode! Remember, node freely or don't node at all! 21:20:13 -!- French has left (?). 21:20:13 -!- Aeryn has joined. 21:20:44 -!- Jaxton has joined. 21:20:44 This spam brought to you by: #freenode! Remember, node freely or don't node at all! 21:20:44 -!- Jaxton has left (?). 21:20:58 elliott, ksh is probably pdksh? 21:21:09 ok, that was funny exactly once 21:21:13 wtf 21:21:22 Vorpal: no 21:21:23 now I'm slightly worried there will be hundreds of spams 21:21:26 This spam brought to you by: #freenode! Remember, node freely or don't node at all! 21:21:26 -!- Aeryn has left (?). 21:21:26 pdksh is derived from the bsd ones 21:21:29 i think 21:21:33 elliott, oh 21:22:52 "Although the Blowfish-based system has the option of adding rounds and thus remain a challenging password algorithm, it does not use a NIST-approved algorithm. In light of these facts, Ulrich Drepper of Red Hat led an effort to create a scheme based on the SHA-2 (SHA-256 and SHA-512) hash functions." 21:23:04 Ulrich Drepper, always making sure we use only NIST-approved hashing algorithms. 21:23:12 Debian's dash is a successor of NetBSD's ash (which is what /bin/sh is), I think. 21:23:32 Because if there's one organise we want to trust about cryptography, it's the NSA! 21:23:35 *organisation 21:23:38 fizzie, hm 21:23:52 fizzie, is that a different dash than what ubuntu uses for /bin/sh ? 21:23:55 (Joking.) 21:23:57 Vorpal: No. 21:23:59 Vorpal: It's the same. 21:24:08 ah 21:24:35 Vorpal: Definitely the same Debian Almquist Shell. 21:24:39 Yup, NetBSD's X11 is from June 2008. 21:24:44 pikhq, ah 21:24:48 1.4.2 21:25:12 elliott: So far, the NSA's suggestions towards cryptography have *just* been improvements (as far as we know). 21:25:23 pikhq, hm, who was Almquist? I mean, I heard the name before. Both in computing context and outside it 21:25:28 "Ubuntu: Stealing from Debian since 2004." 21:25:33 pikhq: Yes, but... they also had the ability to break -- uh, what was it? DES? 21:25:42 the latter obviously due to it being a Swedish familyname 21:25:58 Vorpal: Kenneth Almquist, author of ash. 21:26:10 elliott, from US or Sweden? (I guess it is one of those) 21:26:13 Anyway, Debian doesn't use ash as /bin/sh I think. 21:26:15 *I don't think. 21:26:18 Just Ubuntu. 21:26:20 Vorpal: Dunno. 21:26:24 so he changed his first name to "Debian" and rewrote it as dash? :) 21:26:30 yes :D 21:26:44 elliott: As far as is known, they did not have the ability to break DES until the EFF showed it could be done. 21:26:55 olsner, accurate and astute as usual! 21:26:59 pikhq: they had differential cryptanalysis, though 21:27:53 elliott: They *did* make an unexplained suggestion to DES that was precisely what was needed to make it resistant to differential cryptanalysis before the knowledge of that technique was public. 21:28:33 pikhq: it must have been a coincidence :) 21:28:35 One of my debians has dash in /bin/sh; another doesn't. I think it's sort-of optional there, but if you do install the package, it diverts /bin/sh to itself. 21:28:57 pikhq, they used ASIC for the task. In a small production run. That always makes my mind boggle 21:29:00 elliott: It's well-known that the NSA had knowledge of it quite a bit earlier than the general public. 21:29:16 Is it normal for my penis to be 2 inches at the age of 12? 21:29:19 --#freenode 21:29:23 Well that was... on-topic. 21:29:30 elliott: IBM was asked not to publish, you see. 21:29:36 elliott, I believe a staffer told that guy to quit it. 21:30:59 NetBSD is such a nice kernel/libc/coreutils with such a shitty distribution. 21:31:11 elliott, indeed 21:31:32 (Well, okay, it isn't actually shitty. Just imperfect.) 21:31:59 X -configure, has it ever worked in the history of things working? 21:33:08 yes 21:33:14 I've used it to configure X 21:33:26 -!- webquint has joined. 21:33:34 elliott 21:33:40 webquint 21:33:58 do you have the pastie link for the walls ruleset in your logs? 21:34:19 For Golly or what? 21:34:22 pikhq, Vorpal: http://poll.fm/2c4e9 21:34:25 yer 21:34:39 Phantom_Hoover might :P 21:34:39 elliott, you wrote a rule and didn't tell me? 21:34:42 I might have the file here 21:34:45 ;_; 21:34:45 Phantom_Hoover: webquint wrote a rule 21:34:48 and didn't tell me 21:34:52 Gregor, we told you before, I forgot the numbers 21:35:01 Vorpal: TOO BAD 21:35:07 Phantom_Hoover: WHY SHOULD I TELL A GAY VAMPIRE ABOUT GOLLY RULES 21:35:18 Gregor, let me quickly listen to them 21:35:24 gay vampires are the best vampires 21:35:30 Agreed. 21:35:34 It's not on my logs. 21:35:35 but all vampires suck 21:35:51 webquint: I'd rather they don't suck BLOOD is all. 21:35:59 Gay vampire sitcom: "I vill suck yor... [KNOCK ON THE DOOR]" 21:36:03 Gregor: DAMMIT STOP PREEMPTING ME 21:36:25 Gregor, what about op1? 21:36:26 ;) 21:36:27 gregor: you don't mind being sucked by vampires otherwise? 21:36:39 Vorpal: Opuses 1-4 DO NOT EXIST >_> 21:36:49 Gregor, ah, 0 or -1 then! 21:36:52 webquint: Depends on how they work the fangs >_> <_< 21:37:01 retractable of course 21:37:07 ain't you never seen true blood? 21:37:20 Gregor, idea: fractional and irriational opus numbers 21:37:21 or let the right one in? 21:37:25 lol the #freenode spammers are coming into #freenode 21:37:28 and asking why #freenode is spamming 21:37:31 worst trolls ever 21:37:47 elliott: ...??? 21:37:56 Gregor: 21:37:57 * French (~French@189.188.167.108) has joined #esoteric 21:37:57 This spam brought to you by: #freenode! Remember, node freely or don't node at all! 21:37:57 * French (~French@189.188.167.108) has left #esoteric 21:38:01 happening all over the place 21:38:05 now they're coming into #freenode and going 21:38:07 WHY IS FREENODE SPAMMING ;_; 21:38:10 (in more confused tones) 21:38:12 Gregor, the op8 recording sounds good to me. At least after listening to the earlier ones 21:38:34 Vorpal: ... then don't vote for it? 21:38:37 Gregor, I'm torn between 7 and 5. :/ 21:38:40 elliott: i can has that file now please? *insert pupy dog face* 21:38:47 webquint: ffff i'm doing other things 21:38:50 i'll get it later >_> 21:38:52 or you can check clog 21:38:58 -!- KindOne has joined. 21:39:19 i gave it to you in pm :( 21:39:21 elliott: My question is why are the French spamming? Bloody French! 21:39:42 Ceci n'est pas un spam 21:39:48 -!- webquint has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:40:17 Gregor, does op5 has a metronome in it? Or what is the strange clicking noise? 21:40:26 hm too irregular for metronome 21:40:40 Gregor, I cast my vote on 7 21:40:49 * Schantelle has quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))) 21:40:52 i love that message 21:40:55 like kindly informing them 21:41:00 "oh, spam is a bit off-topic here" 21:41:09 legit mistake, anyone could do it! 21:41:35 elliott, :P 21:42:34 `wl en sv bork 21:42:39 My hovercraft is full of eels. 21:42:44 `wl en sv Swedish_chef 21:42:47 Svenske kocken 21:42:52 Swedish cocken. 21:43:11 uh oh 21:43:34 cpressey_: uh oh? 21:43:39 Gregor, I love both op5 and op7. They are a lot more "action filled" than op11 certainly. 21:43:47 ...in two words? 21:43:55 oerjan: ? 21:44:07 oerjan, ? 21:44:13 `wl en ru Denotational_arrow 21:44:16 My hovercraft is full of eels. 21:44:39 Vorpal: I will probably eventually get to all of them. 21:44:50 Gregor, :) 21:44:53 any math/esolanging today? 21:44:59 Gregor, 7 is the one in most urgent need of it 21:44:59 cpressey_: X11 works! 21:45:01 oklopol: no 21:45:06 oklopol: please introduce some 21:45:06 any sex then? 21:45:09 i saw a beer rant 21:45:20 also i saw two ppl having sex at a spa today 21:45:32 elliott: i'm surprised it's not Svenskekocken in a single word 21:45:54 It's the Swedish cock, not the Swedishcock. 21:48:35 well it's usually in one word in norwegian, is all 21:49:22 (when referring to the muppet) 21:49:59 catseye: Huh, NetBSD doesn't ship with pkgsrc. 21:51:31 same with the swedish king too 21:51:52 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:51:53 i can introduce a tiny bit of math: let S be a semigroup, we define an eq relation R, xRy iff xS = yS, similarly xLy iff Sx = Sy. we define H = R \cap L. greene's theorem says the maximal subgroups of S are exactly the equivalence classes X in H that \exists x, y \in X, xHyHxy or 2) there's an idempotent in X 21:52:12 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:52:36 s/that/for which/ 21:53:05 Vorpal: ^ too 21:53:32 oerjan, hm? *reads up* 21:54:18 oerjan, like "svenskekungen"? or what? 21:54:36 Svenskekongen, actually 21:54:47 oerjan, would be separate words in Swedish: Sveriges kung. 21:54:51 possibly with a hyphen 21:54:54 wouldn't even be Svenske 21:55:08 svenske kocken as two words 21:55:14 Binary packages on BSD -- cheating or cheating?! 21:55:30 elliott, cheating when used for initial install! 21:55:40 Vorpal: ...uh, all the BSDs initial-install as binary. 21:55:40 Vorpal: i think the swedish king may be special, we like to make fun of him ;D 21:55:44 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:55:52 another tidbit: an isometry is a function f (between two metric spaces), d(x, y) = d(f(x), f(y)) for all x, y; the isometries from R^2 to R^2 are exactly rotations, translations and "glide reflections", where a glide reflection means you move along a line l, and then reflect around l 21:55:53 elliott, you should use a stage1-like install! Or even LFS like install! 21:55:58 no. 21:56:02 elliott, aww 21:56:04 oklopol: yes totally 21:56:15 elliott: NetBSD doesn't necessarily initial-install as binary. 21:56:19 pikhq: oh shaddap 21:56:24 oklopol, would be "Norges kung" here for your one 21:56:27 elliott: Download build.sh and run it. :D 21:56:30 pikhq: it's totally weird that it doesn't come with pkgsrc though 21:56:35 comex: what? 21:56:39 *vorpal 21:56:41 ... Okay, so that bootstraps pkgsrc. Still. 21:56:41 oklopol: hi 21:56:45 Vorpal: http://ikkepedia.org/wiki/Knugen 21:56:45 oh 21:56:47 oerjan 21:56:49 `addquote comex: what? *vorpal 21:56:52 240| comex: what? *vorpal 21:57:00 elliott: Technically, pkgsrc is a package manager for all UNIX systems. 21:57:04 comex: hi, tab-complete completed c to comex instead of Vorpal, dunno why 21:57:05 pikhq: Yes, but still. 21:57:10 There is a binary package installer but no ports by default. 21:57:11 elliott, v is next to c though 21:57:15 Weird. 21:57:16 `help 21:57:17 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 21:57:26 `revert 60 21:57:27 oklopol, v is next to c 21:57:27 Still, fetch and run ./build.sh 21:57:29 Done. 21:57:35 oklopol, anyway "what" in response to what 21:57:47 `addquote comex: what? *vorpal comex: hi, tab-complete completed c to comex instead of Vorpal, dunno why 21:57:47 Vorpal: you said something to me you were trying to say to oerjan 21:57:50 240| comex: what? *vorpal comex: hi, tab-complete completed c to comex instead of Vorpal, dunno why 21:57:52 oklopol, oh 21:58:01 " oklopol, would be "Norges kung" here for your one" 21:58:15 oklopol, right 21:58:22 finland's king is called bob 21:58:27 i wondered whether this was about the ...autometries of R^2, or about semigroups 21:58:37 oerjan: Pressed - President of the Swedish Association dyslexia (ed.: also known as DDR). in 1832 revealed Titten Tei that weighed uses the pseudonym King of Sweden when he is on the party. 21:58:43 oerjan, you don't use "knugen" about your own one as well? 21:58:44 `ls 21:58:47 awklisp \ babies \ bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quine \ quotes \ qw.pl \ share \ tmpdir.28221 \ wunderbar_emporium 21:58:51 `w 21:58:52 oerjan, heck we use it about our own! 21:58:58 20:58:53 up 16 days, 2:34, 0 users, load average: 0.85, 0.77, 0.80 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT 21:59:24 comex: Yes, it really is; use `run for that; and no, it's not worth trying. 21:59:28 oerjan, what would "Mil ettert mil" from that page mean? 21:59:40 Vorpal: "mile after mile" 22:00:10 `help run 22:00:11 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 22:00:18 "Mil etter mil" ("Mile after Mile") was the Norwegian entry in the Eurovision Song Contest 1978, performed in Norwegian by Jahn Teigen. 22:00:22 Vorpal: well it would knogen for the norwegian one _if_ we used it, i guess 22:00:26 comex: `cmd x y z = `cmd 'x y z'` 22:00:31 ah 22:00:32 whereas `run x = `x` 22:00:42 oerjan, ah 22:00:49 `uname -a 22:00:51 i also vaguely recall he _is_ dyslexic as well 22:00:52 Linux codu.org 2.6.32-5-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Fri Sep 17 22:00:48 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux 22:01:11 comex: And yes, it is sandboxed more than you can imagine. 22:01:21 (vaguely because i'm not _entirely_ sure if it was him or his father) 22:01:25 oerjan, your as well? 22:01:27 `whoami 22:01:29 No output. 22:01:36 comex: DON'T LOOK FOR INTERNET FAME HERE, YOU WON'T BE RELEASING A HACKEGO JAILBREAK ANY TIME SOON 22:01:38 CRIMINAL 22:01:44 oerjan, or just our? 22:01:44 * elliott TURNS OFF HIS CAPslock 22:01:46 `id 22:01:48 uid=1871837 gid=1871837 22:01:51 `id 22:01:52 `id 22:01:54 uid=1227567 gid=1227567 22:01:55 it changes, yes. 22:01:59 is this the same script I screwed up once? :p 22:02:03 uid=1739866 gid=1739866 22:02:07 and the whole thing is in a plash sandbox 22:02:10 and *that's* in a chroot 22:02:13 <3 plash 22:02:20 (but plash is useless without a chroot, so that's redundant) 22:02:20 so basically 22:02:20 <3 plash 22:02:27 elliott: "Pressed" is an accidental translation of "knugen" here, the real point being it's an anagram of "kungen" (sv. the king) 22:02:28 even if you elevated to root inside plash 22:02:37 escaped plash 22:02:41 and escaped the chroot 22:02:50 you'd be running as a user only privileged enough to trash the bot :P 22:02:52 and showed zfc to be inconsistent 22:02:57 oerjan: ah 22:02:59 oerjan: i guessed as much 22:03:02 (accidental translation) 22:03:20 elliott: Besides which, in escaping the chroot all you'd have at your disposal is ld-linux.so.6 22:03:26 fungot: where are you? ANSWER ME. 22:03:36 `ls / 22:03:38 bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ tmp \ usr 22:03:47 fizzie, where is fungot? 22:04:02 not that fungot ever moves as such 22:04:11 comex: None of those files exist in the chroot. 22:04:15 cpressey_, it lost connection 22:04:26 they're through plash? 22:04:35 Yes, that's how plash works. 22:04:35 Vorpal: the norwegian king, yes 22:04:46 comex, indeed. I checked some time ago using native syscall() 22:04:49 I wonder if there are any security holes in plash... 22:04:54 to list what was really there 22:04:54 the server itself is probably not sandboxed 22:04:57 You get an almost entirely empty chroot, and all access to everything works through the patched libc. 22:05:03 Vorpal: also mil etter mil is "famous" for being one of norway's Eurovision zero-pointers 22:05:10 The server itself is a Xen VM. 22:05:16 oerjan, how so? 22:05:28 :D 22:06:10 The only file in the chroot is /lib/ld-linux.so.6, for the sole purpose of allowing programs to load normally. 22:06:25 Said ld-linux.so.6 is patched to communicate with plash. 22:06:53 pikhq, it's sad plash is so debian-specific 22:07:01 No. 22:07:05 Vorpal: just run it in a debian chroot 22:07:06 It's wonderful that plash is so Debian-specific. 22:07:09 even more layers of security! 22:07:10 elliott, hm 22:07:17 elliott, not really but meh :P 22:07:17 Vorpal: "how so"? it got zero points, i say :D 22:07:23 I have all my plashified things in a chroot *shrugs* 22:07:25 oerjan, oh. 22:07:26 plash source is very complicated. 22:07:28 right 22:07:29 too tired 22:07:39 comex: if you can break plash you have bigger targets than HackEgo. 22:07:46 plash source is radioactive magic faery dust 22:07:53 So I assume we're talking about how to hack Codu? :P 22:07:55 comex: It'd actually work well if they made the patch against normal libc rather than Debian libc. 22:08:06 Vorpal: Oh, there was a short network break at home this morning, I guess it may have died during that. 22:08:45 Gregor: comex is just living up to his hax0r name, you can tell by the x 22:09:02 Better than xXxcomexXx 22:09:06 -!- fizzie has quit (Quit: jumpin' jumpin'). 22:09:11 -!- fizzie has joined. 22:09:12 -!- cpressey_ has changed nick to cpressex. 22:09:32 will this work? 22:09:41 -!- fungot has joined. 22:09:53 fungot: HIYA 22:09:54 cpressex: i prefer this one: fnord/ local/ lib/ bigloo into ld.so.conf solved it. but i may be ignorant but i see np with the changes 22:10:04 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Grax0r. 22:10:07 like, where's the server part 22:10:34 oh I give up, this is too much work for IRC :p 22:10:40 Aww 22:10:42 `quote 22:10:44 `quote 22:10:44 `quote 22:10:45 218| Phantom_Hoover: Don't be nasty; he's a lunatic, not a murderer. 22:10:46 That means we can't hax0r anymore. 22:10:49 54| I guess when you're immortal, mapping your fonts isn't necessary 22:10:55 232| It's only been 2 months since anyone last made a commit! WRONG 8 WEEKS 22:11:19 `which quote 22:11:22 /tmp/hackenv.29461/bin/quote 22:11:35 `strings /tmp/hackenv.29641/bin/quote 22:11:38 `quote 22:11:40 `url bin/quote 22:11:41 No output. 22:11:42 `quote oklopol 22:11:49 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote 22:11:51 the font of youth 22:11:56 i don't care what YOU ppl have said 22:11:57 `run bash -c 'strings /tmp/hackenv.29641/bin/quote' 2>&1 22:11:59 48| i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. 50| i'm not a porn star, no 53| anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true should put that on my todo list 56| i'm my dad's unborn sister 74| GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your 22:12:01 183|* Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there. 22:12:05 /usr/bin/strings: /usr/lib/plash/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by /usr/bin/strings) 22:12:34 erm did that get cut 22:12:36 comex: 1) It's a shell script, just read it. 2) lawl, strings doesn't work apparently, 3) that /tmp/hackenv.*** path is different for every run. 22:12:38 `quote 22:12:41 37| so, he.. uh basically probed me with a weasel. 22:12:48 `quote 22:12:49 `quote 22:12:52 38| speaking of pants harry potter movie 22:12:58 90| hmm, this is hard 22:13:06 Phantom_Hoover: HackEgo responds to PM 22:13:14 dear netbsd: 22:13:15 STUPID WHY 22:13:43 dearnbsd, no pr0n in pkgsrc why? thx 22:14:01 -!- Grax0r has changed nick to Gregor. 22:14:07 -!- cpressex has changed nick to cpressey_. 22:14:26 cpressey_: no but srsly 22:14:28 i do /etc/rc.d/network/start 22:14:30 all jivin' 22:14:33 ping google.com 22:14:34 Dear FreeBSD: The word Free is trademarked by the FSF. Either change your license to the GPL, thereby conforming to the trademark requirements for the word Free, or change the name of your OS. 22:14:36 HOST NAME LOOKUP FAILURE 22:14:39 MAJOR bummer 22:14:58 -!- cal153 has joined. 22:15:00 elliott: ipv6 22:15:11 cpressey_: Is... what... did you just say ipv6 for no reason? :P 22:15:20 elliott: IPV6!!! 22:15:26 elliott: no there is a reason 22:15:45 elliott: last i used it, it wanted to do IPV6 by default for everything. even if you couldn't 22:15:46 cpressey_: I have to use ipv6 for networking to work? :p 22:15:46 The reason: It is the nineties. And there is time for ipv6. 22:15:50 cpressey_: ahhh 22:15:52 seriously? 22:15:55 elliott: no, you have to switch it off 22:15:59 this is all IIRC 22:16:02 cpressey_: lol 22:16:30 elliott: you get it though, right? netBSD is THE RIGHT SOLUTION. ipv6 is THE RIGHT SOLUTION. therefore netbsd -> ipv6 22:16:37 cpressey_: apparently it tries ipv4 after that 22:16:38 instead of failing 22:16:49 elliott: it's slumming! 22:17:24 whoa, google's front page is now gigantic 22:17:27 why is alise not here? 22:17:44 cheater99: alise is with all of us. 22:17:47 *hommmmmmm* 22:17:50 wat 22:18:02 alise has joined the earth-mother 22:18:13 alise was split up into a hundred small pieces and we each got one 22:18:27 This is after joining the earth-mother, mind you. 22:18:37 So we all got some earth-mother too. 22:18:38 right, well 22:18:40 Awwww yeah earth-mother. 22:18:52 Vorpal: Oh, there was a short network break at home this morning, I guess it may have died during that. <-- and the service supervisor didn't restart it? 22:19:06 yo dawg, I heard you like earth-mother, etc 22:19:45 Dear FreeBSD: The word Free is trademarked by the FSF. Either change your license to the GPL, thereby conforming to the trademark requirements for the word Free, or change the name of your OS. <-- err this is a joke right? 22:19:58 (I can only hope so, but who knows with RMS!) 22:20:11 Vorpal: Yes :P 22:20:39 cpressey_: Strange perversion I just gained: I want to write a filesystem! 22:20:56 elliott: You'll have to kill your wife first 22:21:01 Gregor: The BSD license is sufficiently Free for the FSF. :) 22:21:08 Gregor: First I have to Russian mail-order her. 22:21:12 It merely goes further than they'd like. 22:21:18 Vorpal: It shouldn't be that hard to guess that it's still not installed as a proper service. You don't need to mention that every time. 22:21:19 Gregor: no, that goes after writing the file system, IIRC 22:21:20 Gregor, no. After. 22:21:24 We demand rigidly-defined areas of doubt and unFreeness! 22:21:41 Gregor: Sweden is unanimous: After. 22:21:51 elliott, /msg 22:22:51 fizzie, oh :P 22:23:02 In Sweden we are very civilised. 22:23:10 We only kill our wives after letting them see our glorious pen-- filesystem. 22:23:18 Ha ha, Americans! WHAT NOW 22:23:25 XD 22:23:46 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:24:15 there is an exception. You can call it ext where n is the currently highest number in use. In that case everyone will find you too boring to bother about killing wives. 22:24:41 Ted Ts'o has killed SO MANY of his wives, but who cares about ext4? 22:24:57 wait 22:25:01 In Sweden we are so civilised that we often don't even kill our wives! 22:25:01 what's that about killing wifes? 22:25:11 olsner: ...for the first few years! 22:25:20 is there some linux file system murder streak happening again? 22:25:26 then again, we often don't write filesystems either, I may just be lacking data 22:25:38 oh 22:25:40 it's still hans reiser 22:25:43 oh well fuck him 22:26:16 http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/so-i-married-a-kernel-programmer 22:26:24 Everybody loves Everybody Loves Eric Raymond.# 22:26:27 s/#$// 22:26:50 note: "not" in the caption is 'd if your browser doesn't display it 22:26:52 I wonder what would happen to a married pair of lesbian filesystem writers in this glorious wife-killing world 22:27:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:27:20 can you dig this MEME 22:27:21 olsner: Suicide cult. 22:28:10 olsner: a sex tape 22:28:29 :O 22:28:34 Sorry, O.o 22:28:49 As a gay vampire, Phantom_Hoover wants none of this. 22:29:50 most gay vampires are not eligible for this meme since they don't usually have or become wives 22:30:04 * Sgeo tireds 22:30:11 Also, rages at Sine 22:30:16 * Phantom_Hoover adjectives. 22:30:22 Sgeo: what have they done now? 22:30:26 Why, it's a perfectly nice function. 22:30:32 As a gay vampire, Phantom_Hoover wants none of this. <-- wait, what? 22:30:45 Vorpal: fungot called Phantom_Hoover a gay vampire once and i will never stop calling him one 22:30:45 elliott: okay i guess i don't know... 22:30:46 Failed to provide a way to connect 22:30:50 elliott, oh 22:30:52 Oh. fungot now expresses doubt that Phantom_Hoover is a gay vampire. 22:30:52 elliott: and you subscribe to classes too? :) i don't know that about unix, just how to subclass it. 22:31:04 fungot is now back in its native hallucinatory state. 22:31:05 elliott: what is the simplest, and it's the kind of fnord parts. for example in haskell: 22:31:08 subclassing unix... 22:31:15 how horrible 22:31:54 elliott, hey, answer fungot's question, it is rude to not do so! 22:31:54 Vorpal: there is such a thing 22:32:13 fungot, such as thing as rudeness? Indeed 22:32:14 Vorpal: by the way.) you should probably find a toc on their site about it, if its fancy you can always run it through stalin to get more people than you, too. ;p don't know about 22:32:50 fungot, Through stalin hm. Need a time machine then. 22:32:50 Vorpal: alt key of course, i think it's up to fnord 22:33:21 you mean I just need an alt key and some fnord? wow 22:33:49 fungot rhymes with ergot is a fungus, which shares a prefix with fungot 22:33:49 olsner: i'll do it, 22:34:00 fungot, correct, but it conceded that it wasn't sure whether I was gay. Or a vampire. 22:34:00 Phantom_Hoover: it means experience is limited to two-argument functions) 22:34:27 oh? 22:34:44 elliott: how does fungot generate this? is it some kind of markov chain? 22:34:45 olsner: that's not particularly helpful :p those people kept beating each other on the even/ odd 22:34:56 that would explain why you need to check man pages for stuff like connect() or open() 22:34:59 fungot: sorry for not being more helpful... 22:35:00 olsner: and i was unable to fnord revision lock ( 403 forbidden) 22:35:07 olsner, indeed it is 22:35:16 olsner: yes 22:35:18 ask fizzie for more details 22:35:23 markov chains are funny 22:35:31 olsner, read the source to find out more 22:35:33 ^source 22:35:33 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 22:35:45 olsner, I believe they are pre-generated by a perl script 22:35:56 and it then seeks in a file (using FILE) 22:37:24 There's also a thing that can use any n-gram models in the standard-ish ARPA format that I wrote for using our varikn toolkit. 22:38:14 like anyone understands that code :) 22:38:26 It's possible to formulate it in a markov-chainian framework, though it's not exactly the usual "dissociated-press" markov chain; there the algorithm is to copy text verbatim, and at opportunate places with some specific probability jump into another place in the text with the same context. 22:38:45 elliott, um, fizzie does I think 22:38:52 elliott, and I understand some parts of it 22:38:55 small parts though 22:39:07 "Larry Niven already invented T-Rex's Law? That's crazy! ...Why do you think he named it after me?" --T-Rex 22:39:09 elliott, with a lot of work I could figure it out completely 22:39:12 In fungot's case it only has the limited context, not a position-in-text, and it chooses the next word based on the conditional probability from the n-gram model. 22:39:13 fizzie: which book are you talking about? :p :) you fnord your code? 22:39:28 I understand exactly nothing of it, but I'm guessing that ^, <, >, v change the direction of the instruction pointer's movement 22:39:50 olsner: YAY YOU GUESSED CORRECTLY 22:39:55 fizzie: Add a Dinosaur Comics style. 22:39:57 SWEET! 22:41:13 Anyone got NetBSD networking working under qemu? 22:41:35 Yes. 22:41:57 elliott: if only alise was here, I bet alise would know exactly how to do that 22:42:04 Phantom_Hoover: Really? 22:42:07 Phantom_Hoover: How? 22:42:14 elliott, I didn't say I did it. 22:42:21 olsner: Too bad she's with the earth mother. 22:42:29 yah... 22:42:46 Phantom_Hoover: http://xkcd.com/169/ 22:42:47 elliott, what is the issue? 22:42:53 Vorpal: "It doesn't work." 22:43:02 Vorpal: /etc/rc.d/network starts properly, no nameserver, nothing works 22:43:03 elliott, shouldn't it just be to start the virtual network interface and then start dhcp on it? 22:43:12 elliott, I don't remember acting smug. 22:43:13 ifconfig -l lists only lo0 22:43:14 elliott, can you ping any ips? 22:43:23 elliott, ifconfig -a ? 22:43:27 Phantom_Hoover: But you did try and mislead me based on a technicality... 22:43:34 Vorpal: Just shows lo0. 22:43:38 Vorpal: Gimme an IP to ping :P 22:43:46 elliott, but I don't claim superiority for it! 22:43:47 elliott, "your router"? 22:43:52 Vorpal: Just tried google 22:43:54 "No route to host" 22:44:00 elliott, from what I remember network config is not very automatic on netbsd 22:44:01 Using default qemu settings 22:44:07 elliott, hm 22:44:10 no qemu expert 22:44:38 :7G7L0"//:ptth"Q hm 22:44:48 fizzie, what is that bit about ^ 22:45:01 why does it parse URLs? 22:46:02 elliott: Y'know what'd be amazing (if somewhat silly)? A distro hosting all files using BitTorrent. 22:46:06 http://www.nct.org.uk/press-office/press-releases/view/224 O.o 22:47:12 Dammit pikhq, decentralisation is not a panacea :P 22:47:27 wow, i have actually found an ftp link on the internet 22:47:31 i have someone else fnord my own code for me 22:47:42 how amazing 22:47:44 elliott: Yeah, but BitTorrent is a good solution to hosting. Make it with HTTP seeds. 22:47:55 Vorpal: It's incomplete; it's supposed to have a load-code-from-URL feature at some point. 22:47:58 Phantom_Hoover: Ha. 22:48:04 fizzie, ah 22:48:11 fizzie, using SOCK? 22:48:16 I bet it's in the TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY SCIENCE course. 22:48:26 TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY BULLSHIT ETHICAL QUESTIONS 22:48:30 Vorpal: Yes, though I need H from SCKE (or NSCK or whatnot) for more human-friendly URLs. 22:48:32 elliott, it was the actual chemistry paper. 22:48:58 I know people who did some sort of GCSE chemistry paper earlier this year; I should ask them... 22:49:01 [[Charities working to support mothers who want to breastfeed are also negatively caricatured in the question, in the guise of ‘Mrs I M Right’, founder of fictional organisation ‘Responsible Mothers Are Us’. 22:49:01 Her extreme views are framed by a reference to the fact that she has ‘made a career in ‘goodness’ and is paid from donations given to RMAU by members of the public’.]] 22:49:06 That's just ... amazing. 22:49:50 [[Calcium carbonate occurs naturally as marble and limestone. They are important building materials and are often used for gravestones. Calcium carbonate is also an essential mineral for good health and is present in many baby foods in small amounts.My Baby Food is recommended as being the closest to a mother’s own breast milk. It is given free to mothers in the developing world – without it their babies might die of malnutrition.Responsible Mothers 22:49:51 Are Us (RMAU) is a United Kingdom pressure group. They want to ban chemicals in baby foods. The group was founded by Mrs I. M. Right who has made a career in ‘goodness’ and is paid from donations given to RMAU by members of the public. When interviewed, she said: “Calcium carbonate is a chemical and so it is a pollutant. My Baby Food must be banned to prevent the mass medication of babies. I don’t feed my baby the stuff of gravestones.” 22:49:51 Many people do not agree with Mrs Right’s ideas. Suggest why.]] 22:49:54 WORST QUESTION EVER 22:50:53 fizzie, NSCK is on hold until I figure how how to support SCTP 22:51:10 as in: a good API for SCTP 22:52:53 cpressey_: what's a regular ethernet interface called on netbsd? 22:52:56 eth0? 22:53:11 elliott: sounds right 22:53:15 elliott: WAIT NO 22:53:21 that's LINUX talk 22:53:28 on freebsd at least, 22:53:44 network interface names were based on (get this) the driver used 22:53:58 so broadcom was like 'bc0', 'bc1', etc 22:53:59 elliott, so wait, 20th Century Science is /literally the only science education your school provides/? 22:54:07 At GCSE, at least? 22:54:26 Phantom_Hoover: It may have others but -- it's the one they basically do. 22:54:37 I am hoping to see if I can get a better course. 22:54:39 * Phantom_Hoover shivers 22:55:00 elliott, yeah on freebsd it is based on driver. bc0, en0, and so on 22:55:08 not sure for netbsd 22:55:11 probably the same 22:55:57 elliott, what about for whatever you weird people in England do after GCSE? 22:56:16 Phantom_Hoover: I don't think there's Twenty First Century A-Level. 22:56:20 That would be horrific. 22:56:28 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:56:45 elliott, but presumably not the actual sciences? 22:56:57 A-levels are pretty good. 22:56:59 Much better than GCSEs. 22:57:16 But yeah, it's still the physics/biology/chemistry trio. 22:57:17 True, but can you do A-Level without doing any prior stuff? 22:58:20 Uh. Theoretically I guess. 22:58:23 I doubt anyone would let you. 22:59:10 Does 21st Century Science count as proper stuff? 23:00:17 *prior 23:00:56 One of the BSDs used "en0" as the most-likely Ethernet interface, but I can't recall which one. 23:02:06 fizzie, I seen en0 on freebsd, I seen br0 on freebsd too 23:02:10 err 23:02:11 bc* 23:02:39 I think it was en0 for intel's gbit thingy 23:02:44 saw it in a server 23:04:31 I do think OpenBSD had driver-specific names, with ne0 for the ne2k driver and something rather stranger for the SBUS ethernet. 23:05:55 le0 and le1, right. 23:06:01 "Lance Ethernet". 23:06:13 heh 23:06:25 fizzie, what was SBUS? 23:06:39 It's a bit like PCI except in some sparc boxen. 23:06:42 ah 23:06:48 fizzie, and why two? 23:06:52 (le0 and le1) 23:06:54 Well, it was a router. 23:06:54 Hmm. I just realised that one can make trackerless torrents really easily, and that this is an awesome means of sharing files when you don't have a web host. MWAHAHAHAH. 23:06:59 fizzie, oh okay 23:07:09 pikhq, mhm 23:07:32 The box had onboard le0, and then I couldn't find a plain SBUS network card, so I got one with both ethernet and an additional SCSI interface too. I don't think I ever connected anything to the SCSI side, since it had on-board SCSI too. 23:07:39 So, anyone want something completely random off my hard drive? I can make data URIs of the xz'd torrent file! :P 23:10:59 (note: probably overkill for anything I've written myself) 23:11:47 pikhq, /etc/shadow! 23:11:53 Vorpal: No. 23:11:59 pikhq, worth a try :P 23:15:54 Aaah, wait. I could just hand the relevant magnet URI. \o/ 23:15:54 | 23:15:54 /< 23:16:24 Oh, myndzi, when will you fix that thing? 23:16:36 Phantom_Hoover: Works just fine. 23:19:06 LIES 23:28:35 night 23:33:57 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:34:00 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Excess Flood). 23:34:25 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:34:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:35:57 * Phantom_Hoover → SLEEP 23:41:48 Phantom_Hoover: it works on clients with left-aligned nicks 23:42:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:46:58 magnet:?xt=urn:btih:12cba1cfeb9a4b96b791a5697f31075e4888814e&dn=ski&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80%2Fannounce It be a torrent for half a meg! 23:47:05 Hooray, useless! 23:47:44 Sorry, for 39 kilobytes. Hooray, MORE USELESS! 23:48:46 IPX networks 23:49:36 pikhq: But what IS it man??? 23:49:39 What... torrent? 23:49:43 elliott: My SKI interpreter. 23:49:49 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/usr.sbin/chroot/chroot.c?rev=1.13 23:49:52 goto's. awesome. 23:49:54 pikhq: RIP meaningful URIs 23:49:59 elliott: That somebody wanted a few days ago and I couldn't get uploaded to filebin for I DON'T KNOW WHY 23:50:10 pikhq: sometime -- whenever pikhq discovered magnet links 23:50:23 Eulogy: "I never liked knowing what I was about to click, anyway." 23:50:38 pikhq: Also, you have http URIs in there :-O Clearly we need torrent trackers to be distributed by DHT. 23:50:56 elliott: The tracker exchange protocol is not commonly supported yet. 23:50:57 cpressey_: nothin' wrong with a nicely-placed goto in C 23:51:02 pikhq: YOU'RE not commonly supported yet. 23:51:21 elliott: If it weren't for that, then yeah, I'd just say "fuck the tracker URIs". 23:51:25 elliott: oh, but this is argument-parsing code. 23:51:36 pikhq: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:12cba1cfeb9a4b96b791a5697f31075e4888814e&dn=ski 23:51:46 this shouldn't even BE C, really. 23:51:57 elliott: Oh, fine, so you can just do without the trackers, too. 23:52:00 :P 23:52:53 pikhq: Like I said, the trackers are distributed over DHT. 23:52:55 cpressey_: True. 23:53:00 netbsd haz dem too 23:53:31 should just be syscalls + some scripting language, is what i think, every time i look at one of these sources. oh well 23:53:48 -!- cpressey_ has quit (Quit: John Freeman turned on off the computer). 23:53:53 elliott: I need a better program for generating torrent files. Like, one that doesn't require listing a tracker. 23:54:02 pikhq: cat(1) 23:54:12 Eeew. 23:54:21 You realise torrent files are binary, right? 23:54:33 pikhq: What, your terminal too much of a wimpy bitch to handle binary input? 23:54:35 Man up.