00:04:32 -!- flippo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:04:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:05:23 Fuck it. Guess I should make a torrent creator. 00:05:57 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:06:14 pikhq: in C++! 00:07:17 Why not in Brainfuck+PSOX while he's at it? 00:07:30 elliott: Gag. 00:07:37 pikhq: ok then D 00:07:40 with bindings to Perl 00:07:49 Factor! 00:07:50 elliott: Gag gag gag gag. 00:08:12 pikhq: okay in x86-64 assembly, using win32 00:09:46 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Muxcomp 00:10:53 pikhq: I propose we redesign networks. 00:11:27 elliott: Oh? 00:11:33 pikhq: Why not? 00:12:33 lifthrasiir: "infinte" --Versert spec 00:13:44 Aaaargh. A trackerless torrent should have a "nodes" key, with some number of DHT nodes close to the generating client. 00:13:59 pikhq: Should, not must! 00:14:10 Or a single known good node operated by the person generating the torrent. 00:14:21 elliott: Must. 00:14:27 pikhq: IGNORE IT 00:14:33 ... Wait. That could just be the initial seeder. 00:15:10 pikhq: but then what if you die forever ??? 00:15:13 And if you have no intention of sharing the actual torrent *file*, one could simply generate a file with 127.0.0.1. 00:15:19 pikhq: i suggest the strongly that you just omit it 00:15:22 So 64-bit machines can handle up to 16 exabytes of RAM? 00:15:24 and let the client bork 00:15:29 define new standarddddd, 00:15:37 "NYBBLE CASCADE" 00:15:47 Sgeo: 64-bit memory bus, yes. x86-64, no. 00:16:07 Although virtual addresses are 64 bits wide in 64-bit mode, current implementations (and any chips known to be in the planning stages) do not allow the entire virtual address space of 264 bytes (16 EB) to be used. Most operating systems and applications will not need such a large address space for the foreseeable future (for example, Windows implementations for AMD64 are only populating 16 TB, or 44 bits' worth), so implementing such wide virtual address 00:16:07 es would simply increase the complexity and cost of address translation with no real benefit. AMD therefore decided that, in the first implementations of the architecture, only the least significant 48 bits of a virtual address would actually be used in address translation (page table lookup).[1](p130) Further, bits 48 through 63 of any virtual address must be copies of bit 47 (in a manner akin to sign extension), or the processor will raise an exception 00:16:08 . Addresses complying with this rule are referred to as "canonical form."[1](p128) Canonical form addresses run from 0 through 00007FFF`FFFFFFFF, and from FFFF8000`00000000 through FFFFFFFF`FFFFFFFF, for a total of 256 TB of usable virtual address space. 00:16:10 elliott: Magnet URIs do not contain the nodes key, nor does the metadata shared in order to make a magnet URI work. 00:16:25 pikhq: Then it doesn't matter, right? 00:16:56 * Sgeo wants more than 256TB RAM! 00:17:10 It's a very good thing that that's enforced. 00:17:12 elliott: Except that clients will expect it. 00:17:37 elliott: I think I'll have it default to 127.0.0.1 for trackerless torrents, with a note that this may not work if you share the torrent file itself. 00:18:04 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 00:18:31 pikhq: Try it with clients. 00:18:32 I bet it works. 00:18:41 comex: what is enforced 00:18:45 canonical addresses or nodes in torrents 00:19:00 canonical addresses 00:19:29 comex: i don't really see it as a very good thing per se 00:19:33 just a feature of the architecture 00:19:36 what's so grand about it 00:19:47 people won't stuff random stuff info the high bits :p 00:19:50 like me 00:19:51 I would do that 00:20:10 comex: well there can always be other protections against that 00:20:20 actually, that annoys me because I had forgotten about it and I wanted to do something where the high 32 bits of an address was a CRC or something 00:20:41 you could just say that it's an implementation detail 00:20:44 rather than being actually sanctioned 00:20:54 but i guess x86-64 is aggressively practical in the bad way :( 00:22:06 What would be the purpose of stuffing random stuff into the high bits? Is there any realistic chance that something would break? 00:22:45 Sgeo: Uhh, yes, when new memory comes out. 00:22:52 elliott: Oh hells yeah, it works. 00:22:59 Your extra 256 TiB would be useless since people would stuff bullshit into the high bits used to access them. 00:23:03 Isn't that obvious? 00:23:07 pikhq: WOO 00:23:18 pikhq: Gimme a DHT link for a file you just started seeding 00:23:19 Without nodes 00:23:21 magnet link 00:23:25 I wanna see if my client is magical 00:23:27 and can find you 00:23:54 elliott: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:12cba1cfeb9a4b96b791a5697f31075e4888814e&dn=ski 00:24:02 pikhq: That's something already published. 00:24:06 I want some /dev/random. 00:24:12 Let's see if BitTorrent can perform magic. 00:24:18 elliott: Okay, I'll go ahead and make some /dev/random . 00:24:37 elliott: BTW, currently I'm just editing a trackered torrent file to remove everything but the info dictionary. 00:24:40 (it's *mostly* ASCII) 00:25:02 Isn't it bencode? 00:25:10 Indeed. 00:25:21 Yuh, it's bencode. 00:25:44 bencode is a bit rubbish 00:25:50 I42e but 4:spam 00:25:53 stick to one syntax! 00:26:02 But it works. Barely. 00:26:20 pikhq: I AM EAGERLY AWAITING YOUR RANDOMNESS 00:27:07 elliott: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:821267eb9478f17f8632867ff1eb27d7990dcbaf&dn=random%5Fdata 00:27:24 pikhq: Hmm. 00:27:28 pikhq: It isn't listing the files to download :D 00:27:31 I'll just assume it'll figure them out. 00:27:34 pikhq: You seeding? 00:27:38 I'm about to hit download. 00:28:05 elliott: Yuh, seeding. 00:28:24 pikhq: Unsurprisingly, it doesn't work. At all. 00:28:30 elliott: And yeah, it'll only know what files are *in* the torrent once it's downloaded the info dictionary saying what's *in* the torrent. 00:28:37 Turns out my machine cannot magically find your machine given a URN! 00:28:47 It'll take some time to find me from the DHT. 00:28:56 ...it'll actually find you? 00:29:02 I don't think Transmission knows of any peers near me. 00:29:05 How would it? 00:29:15 I've used this to download exactly one thing, NetBSD. 00:29:26 It's got to bootstrap DHT. 00:29:45 Each torrent client has one DHT node hardcoded. 00:29:50 pikhq: Oh...joy. 00:29:53 pikhq: How many hours will this take? 00:29:56 *Just* in case you aren't peered with anyone. 00:30:01 And why won't it give me verbose progress indicators? 00:30:05 It is sitting completely still. 00:30:12 It will once it has a clue. 00:30:24 pikhq: It's downloading metadata from 0 peers. 00:30:27 I am not convinced this will work. 00:30:37 Shouldn't take long, but it'll go faster if you get on another torrent. 00:32:17 pikhq: The latest Ubuntu should do, right? 00:32:18 Time to play more Portal 00:32:20 That'll have a lot of peers. 00:32:26 Also, are you using Transmission? 00:32:40 Yes, I am. 00:32:59 * elliott waits for the Ubuntu torrent to start, re-adds yours 00:33:01 If you really want it to go fast, I could get in on the latest Ubuntu, too. 00:33:11 (hand me the magnet URI, with trackers) 00:33:18 pikhq: That's cheating. 00:33:21 All this for a small binary file? 00:33:27 pikhq: Do you have other torrents going? 00:33:32 elliott: Several. 00:33:35 It's still from 0 peers :( 00:33:40 pikhq: Let's just hope there's overlap. 00:33:42 Sgeo: It's a proof of concept. 00:33:45 pikhq: How big is the file, anyway? 00:33:51 elliott: 20M. 00:34:50 pikhq: Connected to 112 peers on the Ubuntu tracker, still downloading metadata from 0 peers on yours. 00:36:00 pikhq: This... yeah, yours isn't doing shit. 00:36:13 Hand me the magnet uri without trackers? :P 00:36:33 pikhq: KAY 00:36:44 pikhq: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:bcf2e587afd4d3b1bdd8ece5150d9fb4d2958af4&dn=ubuntu-10.10-desktop-i386.iso 00:36:50 GOOD LUCK BITCH 00:37:13 * pikhq twiddles thumbs 00:37:46 Got a peer. 00:37:48 pikhq: I sure hope you get connected before mine finishes downloading. 00:37:50 Wow. 00:37:53 You are a DHT god. 00:38:05 3 peers. 00:38:07 pikhq: Proposal: Torrent clients come with, like, 5,000 DHT peers. 00:38:15 4 00:38:17 8 00:38:19 16 00:38:21 23 00:38:23 34 00:38:27 These are randomly selected, weighted by speed/reliability/connections/etc., from a gigantic pool of DHT peers. 00:38:29 I think you get the picture. 00:38:37 Each release, a new set is substituted. 00:38:44 Thus everybody gets a DHT network built-in. 00:39:09 You are not among those peers. 00:39:30 Hmm. Wait. Are you behind a NAT that you can't punch a hole through? 00:39:41 s/can't/haven't/ 00:39:43 pikhq: I have tons of peers from DHT. 00:39:52 Let's see if my incoming port is open. 00:39:54 OOH THE EXCITE 00:40:00 If not I can easily forward it. 00:40:02 pikhq: I think that may be the case. 00:40:07 New OS install, forget to change the port... 00:40:14 pikhq: YUP that's it. 00:40:18 Lemme fix. 00:40:35 Yeah, that'll make DHT work less well. 00:41:01 pikhq: Is the "port for incoming connections" TCP or UDP? 00:41:06 TCP 00:41:06 i.e. do I want 51420 or 6881 00:41:33 Try UDP too, I guess. 00:41:45 pikhq: I am now attempting your random_data torrent without being connected to the Ubuntu one. 00:42:07 pikhq: 1 peer! 00:42:11 \o/ 00:42:15 pikhq: Are you 75.173.238.244? 00:42:20 Yes. 00:42:21 0% done though :P 00:42:27 WHY WON'T YOUR CLIENT TALK TO ME 00:42:31 You're unchoked. 00:42:35 Not my fault. 00:42:37 "but we're not interested" 00:42:40 WHY NOT YOU STUPID FUCKING CLIENT 00:42:53 pikhq: EXPLAIN 00:42:56 Wanting more peers, rather than the sole seeder? 00:43:12 Well ... fuck that, you don't make my decisions for me Transmission :P 00:43:23 pikhq: Any way to punch it and make it download? 00:43:40 None that I know of. 00:43:50 Except, uh, uh. 00:44:08 Restart it? I dunno. It ought to retain the info dictionary. 00:44:33 Pause. Play! 00:44:39 It's forgotten you exist :P 00:44:48 pikhq: It's actually still trying to download the metadata. 00:44:52 Apparently you're just not good enough. 00:45:03 Baaah. 00:45:37 pikhq: "Created on 01 Jan 1970" 00:45:51 olsner: ping 00:45:52 comex: ping 00:45:58 Sgeo: ping 00:46:09 pong 00:46:19 WEREN'T EXPECTING THAT, WERE YOU 00:46:30 catseye: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:821267eb9478f17f8632867ff1eb27d7990dcbaf&dn=random%5Fdata 00:46:40 catseye: put this in transmission's File -> Add URL... 00:46:45 add it 00:46:50 and hope that it helps me find happiness ;______; 00:47:04 will have to wait, sry 00:47:16 catseye: BAH 00:47:41 (23:54:19) Could not find any trackers 00:47:44 -rtorrent 00:47:51 (it says that instantly, no wait...) 00:47:56 comex: Well, yes, there aren't any trackers. 00:48:01 comex: dht bitch 00:48:07 rtorrent, BTW, is rather stupid about its DHT support. 00:48:08 comex: wait for the love to come pouring in 00:48:10 ...or not 00:48:12 oh...? 00:48:15 rtorrent is like the worst client ever 00:48:15 I thought rtorrent supported DHT 00:48:17 * Mathnerd314 opens up Deluge and follows along 00:48:20 You need to make a session dir for it to work. 00:48:31 Mathnerd314: TOGETHER WE CAN OVERCOME THE FASCIST DEPENDENCY ON "TRACKERS" 00:48:35 rtorrent -s . uri 00:48:46 pikhq: btw, do clients remember their DHT peers even after restarts? 00:49:02 I want (a) to be able to select individual files, (b) command line operation, (c) magnet URI 00:49:09 elliott: I *think* so, but I'm not sure. 00:49:15 comex: transmission-cli 00:49:19 comex: oh come on, rtorrent is not command-line 00:49:27 it works over SSH 00:49:34 it's a shitty gui that you poke random letters to operate and then deal with its terrible character-based representation of a badly-designed GUI 00:49:38 fine, that's not command line :p 00:49:45 comex: It also runs an HTTP server. 00:49:50 but what pikhq said 00:49:54 yeah transmission's web server thing is great 00:49:58 or you could just run the daemon 00:50:04 Yeah, that too. 00:50:05 and use the remote 00:50:11 Or the HTTP server. 00:50:11 :) 00:50:11 or both 00:50:16 run the daemon, which powers the web server 00:50:19 and use both the web server and the remote! 00:50:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 00:50:33 web servers are fiddly 00:50:40 comex: it has a command to set it up for you 00:50:44 it has its own 00:50:45 FIDDLY 00:50:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:50:46 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 00:50:50 comex: It just works. 00:50:54 and I'm in SSH anyway to start it, might as well manage it from there 00:51:01 I don't want to keep it running at all times. 00:51:01 so. 00:51:04 pikhq: I propose we all download http://releases.ubuntu.com/maverick/ubuntu-10.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent 00:51:06 to peer 00:51:14 Mathnerd314: http://releases.ubuntu.com/maverick/ubuntu-10.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent 00:51:17 Mathnerd314: This is our tracker; download it :P 00:52:48 pikhq: If we can actually get this working, I propose we create a torrent listing site for trackerless torernts. 00:52:49 *torrents. 00:53:33 pikhq: I also propose that it offers a trackered 10 megabyte file of /dev/random that users are recommended to connect to regularly to aid peer discovery :P 00:53:33 so let me figure this out... I download all of ubuntu 10.10 to download this other one file? 00:53:47 Mathnerd314: Well, yes. Actually it should just let us find each other. 00:53:53 Mathnerd314: Are you connected to a peer for random_data? 00:54:00 yeah 00:54:11 Mathnerd314: Downloading Ubuntu Smelly Socks? 00:54:18 Oh, look, I am connected to a Deluge client. 00:54:26 yay, that's probably me 00:54:40 pikhq: But since my client is PMSing, it refuses to listen to you, and so I can never discover Mathnerd314 apart from with the Ubuntu torrent. 00:54:43 Let's see if either of you guys actually try downloading anything. You're both unchoked. 00:54:45 Mathnerd314: In conclusion: CONNECT TO THAT TORRENT 00:54:46 And I'm the sole seed. 00:54:59 Mathnerd314: 178.120.245.138 00:55:01 that is you, yse? 00:55:04 wait, maybe not 00:55:05 that person has 10)% 00:55:07 *100% 00:55:22 Mathnerd314: Dood, if you're not downloading Ubuntu, just do it, it'll help both of us :P 00:55:51 I am, I have .02% so far 00:55:51 why do you want ubuntu 00:55:53 stable 00:56:05 and why do you want an iso 00:56:11 with about half of what you need and a lot of stuff you don't 00:56:12 comex: we don't 00:56:20 comex: it's because it has a shitload of peers 00:56:25 and why do you want i386 00:56:26 take the hate elsewhere 00:56:32 IT'S BECAUSE IT HAS A SHITLOAD OF PEERS MORON :| 00:56:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Ribbit, er reboot). 00:56:37 direct download works fine :p 00:56:47 We are doing this to *find peers* for the *other thing*. 00:56:53 Direct download has *nothing to do with it*. 00:57:09 And, say, what did you install your last OS with? A floppy disk image? 00:57:17 DOWNLOAD FROM ME FOR I HAVE UNCHOKED YOU 00:57:17 AND I AM THE SOLE SEED 00:57:58 netboot :p 00:58:12 and that's pretty funny, actually 00:58:25 netboot is an utter waste of time. there is nothing wrong with .isos 00:58:44 so who is 75.173.238.244:51413 ? that's the only person I see 00:59:27 pikhq 00:59:35 and your client is being huffy towards him 00:59:48 how so? 01:00:05 It's not downloading from me. 01:00:07 The only peer. 01:00:11 Erm, seed. 01:00:21 and it should be? 01:00:26 Yes. 01:00:30 It should download from the only seed. 01:01:01 But instead everybody's being all huffy about it. 01:01:13 sure there is 01:01:25 I was installing an OS onto a computer that didn't have a CD drive 01:01:56 ITT: USB drives 01:02:56 pikhq: This does not work. 01:02:59 pikhq: Would it have worked even if you specified yourself in the nodes? 01:03:22 elliott: Dude, you have absolutely no information about what the nodes entry could have been. 01:03:44 pikhq: I mean -- if you gave it in a .torrent. 01:03:52 Probably not. 01:04:05 When you use a magnet URI, the only information beyond what's in the magnet URI is checksums, filenames, and file sizes. 01:04:15 pikhq: But in a .torrent, would it have worked? 01:04:20 No. 01:04:21 If you gave me a .torrent. 01:04:22 With nodes. 01:04:31 No. 01:04:39 There's a chance it'd work with a tracker. 01:04:50 Duh :P 01:05:02 pikhq: I give up. 01:05:18 pikhq: Say, is &dn= actually required? 01:05:21 The thing is, your clients seem convinced that if they hold out they can have more peers. 01:05:34 No, it just makes it look less shitty. 01:05:53 pikhq: Come to think of it... the way you use magnet: is kinda silly there. 01:05:58 Why not just say urn:btih:821267eb9478f17f8632867ff1eb27d7990dcbaf? 01:06:09 You basically have foo:?bar=a-urn 01:06:12 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 01:06:21 Because a magnet URI can be pasted directly into a client. 01:06:28 BAH :P 01:06:44 pikhq: Anyway, it would be supercool if a torrent could actually be identified and downloaded entirely by magnet:?xt=urn:btih:821267eb9478f17f8632867ff1eb27d7990dcbaf. 01:06:49 I charge you with figuring out how to make clients like it. 01:06:58 pikhq: (Perhaps just getting about 10 seeders first would work?) 01:07:05 elliott: Transmission has no such menu "File" 01:07:16 Wait "New..." mightg work 01:07:18 elliott: Try downloading this: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:bcf2e587afd4d3b1bdd8ece5150d9fb4d2958af4 01:07:21 catseye: Yes... it does... 01:07:32 pikhq: 26 peers? 01:07:34 what is this, Ubuntu? 01:07:37 Yes. 01:07:42 that was amazingly quick 01:07:50 That's how it's supposed to work. 01:07:55 elliott: It... crashed 01:07:57 i approve 01:08:00 pikhq: and no torrents either! 01:08:16 catseye: http://www.transmissionbt.com/images/screenshots/GTK-Large.jpg 01:08:17 see File menu 01:08:30 New... source: paste in that magnet link, click "New", and... Transmission go bye bye 01:08:38 no 01:08:40 File -> Add URL 01:08:44 Okay, I think we can conclude that trackerless *kinda* sucks with small torrents. 01:09:08 pikhq: Now you get to figure out how to make it not suck. 01:09:14 pikhq: Coerce a client to download from one peer! 01:09:21 pikhq: If you have to patch it, so be it :P 01:09:22 elliott: "Torrent | Add..." prompts me for a file 01:09:29 catseye: http://www.transmissionbt.com/images/screenshots/GTK-Large.jpg 01:09:32 Look at that screenshot. 01:09:35 See where "File" is? 01:09:39 Press that on your Transmission. 01:09:43 Then click "Add URL...". 01:09:44 elliott: My transmission is DIFFERENT. 01:09:52 catseye: Ookayyy... screenshot? 01:11:22 elliott: http://imgur.com/OxBeJ.png 01:11:38 catseye: sudo apt-get upgrade :p 01:11:49 fuck fuck fuck 01:12:47 Quadlex: what? 01:12:54 elliott: am at best will have I on Ibex. not upgrading version of Ubuntu tonite. sorry 01:13:04 maybe compile xmission from source, but later. 01:13:07 catseye: upgrade is not distro upgrade 01:13:07 I'm out of ritalin 01:13:16 catseye: upgrade is just repo upgrade 01:13:20 also, "compile xmission"? 01:13:27 Quadlex: enjoy the hyper 01:13:28 elliott: Fortunately, using publicbt or openbittorrent is really really simple... 01:13:29 elliott: how else you convice pkg mgr give you good shit huh? 01:13:33 elliott: You just list that as the tracker. That's it. 01:13:35 pikhq: openbittorrent never freaking works 01:13:45 elliott: Okay, just publicbt then. 01:13:46 catseye: what drug did you just take? 01:13:58 -_- Hardly 01:14:17 Quadlex: HAPPY HAPPY FUN FUN 01:14:38 elliott: HD#)@HSLNLA>MM WA WAWAWA WA 01:14:46 Ahem. Yes. 01:14:48 catseye: no seriously what 01:14:54 maybe compile xmission from source, but later. 01:14:55 ELABORATE 01:15:02 also ibex really? 01:15:04 8.10, impressive 01:15:12 x=trans 01:15:15 wonder if there's still a warty warthog user going around 01:15:45 catseye: so you'll totally use kitten RIGHT??? 01:15:51 elliott: Oh, I see. Openbittorrent seems not to have HTTP tracking any more. 01:15:56 pikhq: ...seriously? 01:15:59 pikhq: WHY 01:16:07 I dunno. 01:16:12 "UDP IS BETTER"? 01:16:16 "We kindly ask you not to use the OBT trackers in torrents resulting in unauthorized distribution of copyrighted files (movies, music, games and so on)." 01:16:16 lol 01:16:29 "If you want to add OBT to a massive amount of torrents, you must ask us first. 01:16:30 Don't add OBT as the default tracker when torrents are uploaded on your site without our written consent." 01:16:31 wow 01:16:39 pikhq: it's neither open nor a tracker for anything people actually want! 01:16:50 OpenBitTorrent, the non-open non-tracker! 01:17:08 elliott: It tracks, just not using HTTP+TCP. 01:17:08 "A few pointers to people considering sending DMCA takedown notices:" But but I thought people weren't meant to use them for copyrighted things. 01:17:14 if only it were also ternary 01:17:33 elliott: publicbt, on the other hand, says nothing about usage. 01:17:50 pikhq: DHT, on the other hand, does not require relying on anybody. 01:18:11 pikhq: I propose we tweak clients / write our own client to be saner when faced with small DHT torrents. 01:18:16 Sometime. 01:18:16 elliott: Except "If you want to scrape for stats on torrents here, grab the entire set of stats instead of scraping for each torrent." 01:18:36 "OpenBitTorrent has been suspected of being a part of or a side project of The Pirate Bay, because it was observed early on that both sites used the same trackers.[2] The OpenBitTorrent project has countered by stating that the sites merely shared a tracker cluster operated by DCP Networks and Fredrik Neij during a startup period (February through August 2009)." 01:18:37 Suuuuure 01:18:43 elliott: BTW, DHT is in addition to the tracker, so you don't really *depend* on it. 01:19:13 pikhq: I tells ya. We need to make a DHT-only client. 01:19:15 Cascade! 01:19:16 Except that it seems not to work in the pathological case of 1 seed. 01:19:23 HAVE YOU TRIED TWO SEEDS 01:19:45 elliott: WOULD YOU LIKE A COPY? IF SO, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT? 01:19:53 pikhq: wut 01:19:58 ... Screw it. filebin.ca 01:20:07 pikhq: Of... what? random_data? 01:20:10 Yes. 01:20:32 pikhq: No :P 01:20:41 Aaaw. 01:20:57 Hmm. 01:21:19 * pikhq tries creating a torrent with a web seed from codu.org. 01:21:22 pikhq: Basically if we just take an existing client, rip out all the tracker code, and add a smarter rule for when to download from clients... 01:21:31 Voila, Cascade 0.1. 01:23:09 pikhq: If you don't do that, I totally will :P 01:23:12 But right now, I will sleep. 01:23:29 pikhq: Kitten. BEWARE 01:23:32 Goodnight; bye. 01:23:34 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Connection reset by peer review). 01:24:21 Fun fact: Transmission doesn't copy web seeds into the magnet URI. 01:25:02 Aaah, that's because there is no spec for that yet. 01:25:14 -!- oklopol has quit. 01:32:58 "The gnutella protocol remains under development and in spite of attempts to make a clean break with the complexity inherited from the old gnutella 0.4 and to design a clean new message architecture, it is still one of the most successful file-sharing protocols to date." 01:33:18 ... "in spite of attempts to make it better, it's good"? 01:34:35 magnet:?xt=urn:btih:23000501613b867e5b269b7ec15e76b8accdb784&dn=GRegor-op13-mov1.ogg&ws=http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov1.ogg MWAHAHAHA 01:34:36 elliot, was playing Portal 01:35:38 Someone wanna try that? 01:38:14 pikhq: ...??? 01:38:41 Gregor: You were convenient. 01:41:54 pikhq: I think I'm trying 01:42:07 no peers though 01:44:16 Mathnerd314: And now? 01:44:41 nope... 01:45:01 Weird. 01:45:35 I'll try downloading ubuntu again 01:46:04 Try restarting the torrent 01:47:18 pikhq: still nothing :-/ 01:47:38 Weird; it should at *least* be connecting and fetching the torrent file. 01:52:33 pikhq: maybe you meant xs instead of ws in your magnet? 01:55:30 * Sgeo is going to try TAG 01:56:51 Sgeo: wikipedia claims that's a BBS? 01:57:03 The game 01:57:06 Computer game 01:57:50 link? 01:58:53 v 01:58:54 https://www.digipen.edu/studentprojects/tag/ 02:00:23 website seems broken 02:00:33 (ThePowerofPaint.com) 02:01:07 ? 02:01:25 so I have no idea of where to get it 02:01:27 That's not the.. I don't know what that is 02:01:35 "Download Tag" 02:01:55 BTW, it was the inspiration for one of Portal 2's game mechanics 02:02:02 And Valve hired the people who made it 02:02:28 * Mathnerd314 sees 02:02:41 pikhq: you finally showed up as a peer 02:10:11 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:18:27 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:21:58 -!- cal153 has quit. 02:25:40 -!- antivigilante has joined. 02:35:02 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 02:45:57 -!- augur has joined. 02:45:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:46:14 -!- augur has joined. 02:46:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:46:38 -!- augur has joined. 03:24:14 -!- storkbot has joined. 03:26:16 @tell oerjan we have a note-taker bot now. 03:26:16 catseye: Consider it noted. 03:26:26 @tell elliot we have a note-taker bot now. 03:26:26 catseye: Consider it noted. 03:26:41 @tell ais523 we have a note-taker bot now. 03:26:41 catseye: Consider it noted. 03:27:33 And I'm not considered worthy 03:28:50 @tell Sgeo I figured that since you were in the US you would probably see this before you went to sleep. 03:28:50 catseye: Consider it noted. 03:29:08 Sgeo: now say something 03:29:15 Testing 03:29:15 Sgeo: catseye told me to tell you: I figured that since you were in the US you would probably see this before you went to sleep. 03:29:20 Awesome 03:33:37 @tell elliott we have a note-taker bot now. 03:33:37 catseye: Consider it noted. 03:33:41 (two t's) 03:34:55 `wl de ophthalmologist 03:35:27 My hovercraft is full of eels. 03:39:23 `wl de Explosion 03:39:46 Explosion 03:42:28 `wl de what 03:42:33 My hovercraft is full of eels. 03:42:41 `wl de is 03:42:47 IS 03:42:51 `wl de this 03:42:55 This 03:43:03 `wl de weird 03:43:07 My hovercraft is full of eels. 03:43:17 `wl de command? 03:43:21 My hovercraft is full of eels. 03:44:05 German? What's THAT? 03:44:17 `wl en de What 03:44:19 My hovercraft is full of eels. 03:44:26 `wl en fr What 03:44:28 My hovercraft is full of eels. 03:44:33 `wl en fr Bread 03:44:36 Pain 03:44:44 `wl en de Bread 03:44:46 Brot 03:45:05 `wl en de babelfish 03:45:05 finally 03:45:09 My hovercraft is full of eels. 03:45:21 `wl en zh Translator 03:45:24 翻译 03:45:44 why does it keep saying "My hovercraft is full of eels."? 03:45:56 Mathnerd314: that's it's "no translation found" error message. 03:46:16 ok... 03:50:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20W_R-wWFA8 03:50:51 why is it 18 or older? 03:51:04 because it shows a slaughter. 03:53:59 I really don't feel like making a youtube account 03:54:42 k 03:56:26 unless it has lots of blood and gore...? 03:56:40 not really 04:00:52 Mathnerd314: Okay, I've concluded that Transmission is broken as an initial seed. 04:01:13 Mathnerd314: I'm going to try Deluge and see if that works better. 04:02:12 cool. tell me when to look / try 04:09:17 er... so I just compiled my first non-trivial Go program. (well, it's 'cat', so whether it is trivial or not is arguable.) 04:09:50 The executable size is a svelte 475K. 04:09:55 *after* stripping. 04:10:23 Also I was amused to find: "The Go for statement differs from that of C in a number of ways. First, it's the only looping construct; there is no while or do." 04:10:24 Transmission is *also* broken at web seeding. 04:10:31 Mathnerd314: Try now. :D 04:14:32 I'm not certain what to try... 04:15:14 I have the two files still trying to download 04:15:36 but neither with any peers 04:16:04 Sorry, Deluge is busy checking one absurdly large torrent ATM. 04:16:05 ^ pikhq 04:16:33 Give it a bit. 04:17:48 * Mathnerd314 waits 04:18:20 * Mathnerd314 goes back to reading Hybrid Theory 04:20:20 * Mathnerd314 goes to sleep 04:20:20 Okay, seeding. 04:20:31 * Mathnerd314 wakes up 04:21:58 "In Go the rule about visibility of information is simple: if a name [...] is capitalized, users of the package may see it. Otherwise, the name [...] 04:22:00 is visible only inside the package in which it is declared." 04:22:29 this language is starting to kinda suck 04:23:19 catseye: Go sucked even before it had no windows port 04:23:48 pikhq: no dice 04:24:25 but I'll leave the daemon running overnight 04:27:51 "Comments do not nest." 04:27:55 wtg 04:28:12 why would the programmer ever want to nest comments 04:28:36 it's not like you ever want to comment out a block of code that already has comments in it 04:28:41 that just never happens 04:30:17 Mathnerd314: I'm converging on your opinion there 04:31:41 elliott: Dude, Deluge supports hooking up to a torrent with *just* the infohash. 04:32:21 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:33:23 "Two types are either identical or different." 04:33:46 am reminded of the comment about how to multiply values by two on a ternary system 04:36:14 Pity absolutely nothing supports tracker exchange. 04:39:00 "If the type assertion holds, the value of the expression is the value stored in x and its type is T. If the type assertion is false, a run-time panic occurs. In other words, even though the dynamic type of x is known only at run-time, the type of x.(T) is known to be T in a correct program." 04:39:03 * catseye gives up 04:39:06 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:39:19 srsly 04:39:31 * catseye mentally categorizes this language next to Falcon 04:44:32 -!- cheater99 has joined. 04:46:16 ... Holy *fuck* I think I hate Deluge now. 04:46:27 It's hogging a whole CPU. 05:17:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:17:42 -!- augur has joined. 05:20:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:21:07 -!- augur has joined. 05:24:27 -!- KindOne has quit. 05:35:10 -!- cal153 has joined. 05:41:36 -!- wareya_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:16:50 http://i.imgur.com/IO6jL.jpg 06:30:11 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 06:35:38 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:35:57 pikhq, awesome 06:39:38 *old 06:39:56 howd that happen 06:41:48 augur: Custom map with 4 portals arranged just right. 06:42:03 ahhhh ok 06:42:05 4 portals 06:42:42 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:42:42 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 06:42:42 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:55:17 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:55:47 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:03:37 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit). 07:07:41 -!- antivigilante has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 07:07:46 -!- tombom has joined. 07:50:45 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:15:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:35:00 -!- realazthat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:41:41 hello sweethearts 09:43:06 pikhq: how do you get 4 portals? 10:50:05 -!- wareya has joined. 10:56:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:57:20 @tell oerjan we have a note-taker bot now. 10:57:20 oerjan: catseye told me to tell you: we have a note-taker bot now. 10:57:26 you don't say. 11:03:38 @tell catseye you don't say. 11:03:39 oerjan: Consider it noted. 11:23:11 @help 11:23:14 hm 11:23:17 @source 11:23:53 @self_destroy 11:24:40 @tell catseye Choosing the same prefix and command as lambdabot may not be such a good idea. 11:24:40 oerjan: Consider it noted. 11:27:03 @tell ' -- DROP TABLE notes; 11:27:03 Vorpal: Consider it noted. 11:27:07 heh 11:27:12 well unlikely to work 11:27:19 well,* 11:27:28 err 11:27:33 @tell ' DROP TABLE notes; -- 11:27:34 Vorpal: Consider it noted. 11:27:37 or something 11:27:46 I'm no good at sql 11:27:52 meh, missed a ; 11:27:54 *shrug* 11:34:47 -!- antivigilante has joined. 11:39:31 -!- eslice has joined. 11:56:00 -!- atrapado has joined. 11:56:58 -!- antivigilante has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 11:57:33 -!- antivigilante has joined. 11:58:34 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:13:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:21:34 -!- antivigilante has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 12:27:02 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:30:16 -!- eslice has left (?). 12:44:02 -!- atrapado has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:46:18 -!- atrapado has joined. 12:52:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:04:46 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Abandonando). 13:11:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:54:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:54:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:29:14 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:30:05 -!- sftp has joined. 14:31:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:11:34 -!- elliott has joined. 15:14:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:18:22 17:33:18 ... "in spite of attempts to make it better, it's good"? 15:18:22 elliott: catseye told me to tell you: we have a note-taker bot now. 15:18:24 :D 15:18:37 storkbot: irritating. 15:19:41 @tell catseye test1 15:19:41 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:42 @tell catseye test2 15:19:42 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:42 @tell catseye test3 15:19:42 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:43 @tell catseye test4 15:19:43 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:44 @tell catseye test5 15:19:44 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:44 @tell catseye test6 15:19:45 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:45 @tell catseye test7 15:19:45 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:46 @tell catseye test8 15:19:46 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:47 @tell catseye test9 15:19:48 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:49 @tell catseye test10 15:19:49 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:51 @tell catseye test11 15:19:51 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:53 @tell catseye test12 15:19:53 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:55 @tell catseye test13 15:19:55 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:57 @tell catseye test14 15:19:57 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:19:59 @tell catseye test15 15:19:59 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:20:01 @tell catseye test16 15:20:01 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:20:03 @tell catseye test17 15:20:03 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:20:05 @tell catseye test18 15:20:05 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:20:07 @tell catseye test19 15:20:07 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:20:09 @tell catseye test20 15:20:09 elliott: Consider it noted. 15:20:11 ok i'm done :D 15:20:29 19:50:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20W_R-wWFA8 15:20:29 This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. 15:20:31 BUT CHANNEL 4 IS BRITISH 15:20:52 20:09:17 er... so I just compiled my first non-trivial Go program. (well, it's 'cat', so whether it is trivial or not is arguable.) 15:20:52 20:09:50 The executable size is a svelte 475K. 15:20:52 20:09:55 *after* stripping. 15:20:56 Go links statically. 15:21:02 catseye: Note that that program requires no libraries to function. 15:21:37 20:23:19 catseye: Go sucked even before it had no windows port 15:21:40 no windows port is a feature 15:21:50 catseye: go is a decent language, just takes some getting used to 15:21:53 go code is *very* nice 15:24:52 catseye: Haskell's cat is similar, because up until very recently it only ever statically linked against Haskell libs. 15:26:27 (now, it defaults to that and can dynamically link — but Cabal doesn't quite work with it right yet) 15:29:43 pikhq: What's the opposite of progress? 15:29:47 Answer: Amateurgress! 15:29:53 GHC is amateurgressing. 15:30:02 hello elliott 15:30:07 how are things? 15:30:34 i must say my favorite language right now is python 15:30:42 and i wish haskell had its elegance 15:30:48 it's just so nice to write in 15:31:18 pikhq: why is haskell code so unelegant? 15:34:20 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:37:49 -!- Harpyon has joined. 15:38:28 cheater: It... Isn't. 15:38:37 cheater: That's just evidence you suck. 15:39:58 bah 15:40:03 undefined indent structures ftl 15:41:11 ... ? 15:41:41 Seriously, I have almost never had problems Haskell indentation. 15:42:01 (the if/then/else block in do notation makes no sense. That has given me some trouble. Thankfull, Haskell 2010 fixes that.) 15:42:26 Thankfully, even. 15:43:03 Anyways, you suck and you should be ashamed of yourself. 15:45:50 hm almost have ipsec working in transport mode with X.509 certificates (and a local CA). Everything works except that the keying daemon fails to find the CA certificate (so the whole thing works if I disable verification of the cert, but that isn't a very good idea obviously) 15:48:23 pikhq: I PROPOSE WE CREATE A P2P ENTIRELY-DHT DISTRIBUTION MECHANISM 15:48:27 pikhq: WITH BLACKJACK AND HOOKERS 15:48:36 pikhq: Like Freenet but more liek BITTORRENT AWESOMENET 15:49:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:54:27 -!- Harpyon has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:55:11 -!- Harpyon has joined. 16:00:03 http://xkcd.com/806/ is almost funny. 16:00:08 Doesn't have a punchline -- but. 16:01:14 -!- Harpyon_ has joined. 16:01:59 -!- Harpyon has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:02:00 -!- Harpyon_ has changed nick to Harpyon. 16:02:24 pikhq: http://i.imgur.com/5OFUT.jpg WHERE'S YOUR JESUS NOW 16:03:44 -!- Ilari has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:04:10 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:05:51 -!- Harpyon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:06:41 -!- Harpyon has joined. 16:07:53 -!- Harpyon has quit (Client Quit). 16:10:04 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has joined. 16:11:24 -!- Ilari has joined. 16:18:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:18:18 hi ais523 16:18:37 hi 16:18:37 ais523: catseye told me to tell you: we have a note-taker bot now. 16:18:49 ah, interesting 16:18:56 and I think I can guess which bot it is 16:19:23 hi ais523 16:19:25 ais523: catseye also has 20 messages waiting for him when he next speaks. 16:19:38 Unlimited ability to make a bot send a bunch of messages at once: Excellent idea! 16:19:41 could lead to quite some flood 16:19:58 what's the syntax to send a message? 16:20:03 Yes, well, don't you think it's worth it so that he hears that test1, test2, test3, test4, test5, 16:20:08 ais523: @tell person message 16:20:24 @tell storkbot can you send messages to yourself? 16:20:24 ais523: Consider it noted. 16:20:36 @tell fungot fungot 16:20:37 elliott: Consider it noted. 16:20:37 elliott: i just won't touch his code :) just translate what i said. must not have been a challenge to the reader 16:20:37 fungot: elliott told me to tell you: fungot 16:20:38 storkbot: you could just do? http://schemecookbook.org/ cookbook/ fnord what's up? it's been like this since 2002 and is the only thing 16:20:50 hmm 16:20:51 @tell fungot fungot 16:20:51 elliott: Consider it noted. 16:20:52 @tell fungot fungot 16:20:52 elliott: numedia fnord at interweb address fnord i think 16:20:52 elliott: Consider it noted. 16:20:52 fungot: elliott told me to tell you: fungot 16:20:52 elliott: you can't list out any advantages of the python fnord 16:20:52 fungot: elliott told me to tell you: fungot 16:20:52 storkbot: whoa! hydrogen fuel cell rc car! bitchin'! not much more to do with it 16:20:53 storkbot: its been said that dribble is what editors of the x3j13 ansi standard for common lisp do after spending countless hours debating the semantic details of functions like boole and read-char-no-hang. 16:21:31 are we going to have to start blacklisting the bots from each other again? 16:21:35 fungot already does 16:21:36 elliott: i can't " darcs pull url" says: libcurl: http error ( 404?). i didn't write this with emacs, since all of the values 16:21:42 hmm 16:21:43 `run echo '!echo @tell fungot fungot' 16:21:43 elliott: and i have to go and stay there :d i'm used to it 16:21:49 HackEgo? 16:21:54 Haack-eeegooooo 16:21:59 elliott: HackEgo tends to hang for about 2 minutes the first time you use it in a while 16:22:04 ais523: wow. 16:22:07 ais523: but i used it yesterday :P 16:22:09 I have no idea why 16:22:12 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:23:15 !echo @tell fungot fungot 16:23:23 C'mon, EgoBot! You can do it! 16:23:24 oh wait 16:23:25 !echo 16:23:33 `run echo '!sh echo @tell fungot fungot' 16:23:33 elliott: some schemes have serialization built-in. not very good 16:23:40 ais523: and the second time... 16:23:52 second time it's normally faster than that 16:23:52 -!- antivigilante has joined. 16:23:59 although I suppose that isn't particularly hard 16:24:03 yay works now 16:24:14 (of course, it is fairly pointless in practise) 16:24:28 !sh echo @tell fungot fungot 16:24:43 ais523: let's see if EgoBot wakes up 16:24:52 (oh, for those who joined after the line I referred to: " hm almost have ipsec working in transport mode with X.509 certificates (and a local CA). Everything works except that the keying daemon fails to find the CA certificate (so the whole thing works if I disable verification of the cert, but that isn't a very good idea obviously)") 16:24:52 fungot's ignore-list doesn't have storky (yet), though. 16:24:53 fizzie: under winxp i ususally have no problems compiling, e.g. 16:24:57 !help 16:25:04 fizzie: Let me at least get one botspam working first :P 16:25:13 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 16:25:37 unfortunately, none of the bots can output multiple lines 16:25:40 making a botloop impossible 16:25:46 with storkbot 16:26:03 elliott, I think you fail at " !sh echo @tell fungot fungot" ;) 16:26:03 Vorpal: it was a real cereal. about fainted from laughing/ exhaling might be hc enough. 16:26:17 Vorpal: EgoBot must ignore HackEgo 16:26:32 a botloop would be EgoBot or HackEgo telling storkbot to tell fungot about fungot forever, making fungot spam, making storkbot ping fungot, making fungot babble, and then HackEgo or EgoBot would do it again 16:26:32 elliott: when you tweak on it, 16:26:34 elliott, oh, you *intended* that? 16:26:35 right 16:26:50 storkbot, hi 16:26:58 elliott: why would HackEgo or EgoBot do it again? 16:26:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:27:02 storkbot: hi 16:27:03 well 16:27:04 HE WILL NEVER KNOW 16:27:08 Vorpal: it only does @tell 16:27:13 `run echo '@tell fungot fungot' 16:27:14 elliott: riastradh will surely have more to tell atm. it's a perfect tool for some things 16:27:16 @tell fungot fungot 16:27:16 HackEgo: Consider it noted. 16:27:26 fizzie: DAMN YOU 16:27:31 wait i have an idea 16:27:32 HOLD UP 16:27:37 `run echo '@tell fungot fungot' 16:27:37 elliott: intelligent people. 16:27:37 fungot: HackEgo told me to tell you: fungot 16:27:38 storkbot: you take a look at other stuff :) forthers would say that i do 16:27:38 @tell fungot fungot 16:27:38 HackEgo: Consider it noted. 16:27:41 elliott, right. And getting fungot to say anything starting with @ or such seems hard 16:27:41 Vorpal: well size and features go hand in hand, i have 16:27:42 fungot: HackEgo told me to tell you: fungot 16:27:42 storkbot: that's something i'd like to be able to mount it and whatnot. would love a poster to hang on alt.suicide.bus.stop or alt.suicide.holiday these days. 16:27:44 `run echo '@tell fungot fungot' 16:27:44 elliott: ( running it on windows myself), and code won't be open doesn't make his old code any worse 16:27:45 `run echo '@tell fungot fungot' 16:27:45 `run echo '@tell fungot fungot' 16:27:45 elliott: what does a faded, black white photo of some random mailing list? they are linear 16:27:45 `run echo '@tell fungot fungot' 16:27:45 `run echo '@tell fungot fungot' 16:27:45 elliott: there has to be all the rage in miami right now. 16:27:45 elliott: i'm only speculating about what technique andre van tonder 16:27:47 okay 16:27:47 it's over now 16:27:50 @tell fungot fungot 16:27:50 HackEgo: Consider it noted. 16:28:01 okay it... 16:28:04 um 16:28:04 it should be doing that a lot more :D 16:28:06 @tell fungot fungot 16:28:07 HackEgo: Consider it noted. 16:28:07 @tell fungot fungot 16:28:07 @tell fungot fungot 16:28:07 @tell fungot fungot 16:28:07 HackEgo: Consider it noted. 16:28:07 HackEgo: Consider it noted. 16:28:07 HackEgo: Consider it noted. 16:28:11 .... 16:28:12 oh joy 16:28:16 fungot, . 16:28:16 Vorpal: you can't plant spiders, duh! 16:28:16 fungot: HackEgo told me to tell you: fungot 16:28:16 fungot: HackEgo told me to tell you: fungot 16:28:16 fungot: HackEgo told me to tell you: fungot 16:28:16 fungot: HackEgo told me to tell you: fungot 16:28:16 fungot: HackEgo told me to tell you: fungot 16:28:16 storkbot: and i remembered it doing more than just reversal. i guess 16:28:16 storkbot: i'm drawing a blank 16:28:17 storkbot: that's not necessarily what you want is broken and _it's_ trying to apply the object ( in the system. i am confused 16:28:17 storkbot: if you do more customization without making you modify the min parameter and not the time to wait for weeks and usually didn't have any cases that required a mop solution ( or that i guess that's the point 16:28:19 fungot 16:28:20 elliott: the distribution ships with a proprietary dialer... i really need a speed increment, having done all the asm, c, d 16:28:22 WOOP WOOP 16:28:24 annoying 16:28:28 fizzie: you can ignore storkbot now 16:28:32 Vorpal: botspam is a channel tradition 16:28:34 fungot, hm 16:28:34 Vorpal: the idea behind java and .net?! 16:28:39 elliott, true 16:28:43 `addquote Vorpal: you can't plant spiders, duh! 16:28:43 elliott: c programmers rarely use s-exps... it will use, once i figured how to run that script except me. 16:28:55 elliott, me calling it annoying is also a tradition by now ;P 16:28:56 241| Vorpal: you can't plant spiders, duh! 16:29:02 ^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|storkbot)! 16:29:02 OK. 16:29:08 I really should make that a persistent thing. 16:29:19 fizzie: I propose making fungot ignore .* 16:29:20 elliott: i guess, symbols. 16:29:22 TOTAL SECURITY 16:29:22 Also keeping toBogE there is a matter of tradition. :p 16:29:35 fizzie, who owned toBogE? 16:29:44 annoying immibis 16:29:48 hm 16:30:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:30:15 ais523: you missed botspam 16:30:20 elliott: why would HackEgo or EgoBot do it again? 16:30:20 * ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:30:29 because, if they could say multiple lines, as would be required by this, 16:30:32 you'd just put it in a while loop 16:30:40 ipsec sure is fun 16:30:40 oh, I see 16:30:43 to echo '@tell fungot fungot' 16:30:43 elliott: i have something 16:30:44 or 16:30:45 more funly 16:30:49 that wouldn't be a botloop, though 16:30:56 that would be one bot in a loop, setting the others off in sequence 16:30:59 to have HackEgo say '!sh echo @tell fungot fungot' 16:30:59 elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. 16:31:02 ais523: yes, but it would be glorious 16:31:21 also, that last fungot comment is great 16:31:21 ais523: sorry for my absence. 16:31:22 HackEgo would talk, fungot would talk, EgoBot would talk, fungot would talk, storkbot would talk, fungot would talk, and it'd all start over again 16:31:23 elliott: heh... i guess i should turn it i expected it. you might get the same 16:31:25 all out of order 16:31:30 `addquote elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. 16:31:30 elliott: no exploding ants in this version! 16:31:32 fungot quotes are always good 16:31:33 elliott: they want to delay it quite a lot 16:31:57 242| elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. 16:33:55 `quote 16:33:57 211| pigeons are very smart. all the known ways to show a language is not regular are based on pigeons. 16:34:12 ais523: have you ever read the acknowledgement in the scsh manual? 16:34:17 it's rather amusing (and semi-famous) 16:34:20 I don't know what scsh is 16:34:26 although I'm guessing a shell from the name 16:34:28 ais523: that doesn't even matter 16:34:28 no 16:34:34 it's Olin Shivers' Scheme extension that adds a bunch of posix stuff 16:34:39 but that has nothing to do with it 16:34:39 ah 16:34:43 -!- aloril has joined. 16:34:55 http://www.scsh.net/docu/html/man.html <-- the acknowledgements page 16:34:58 it should be illegal to end a program name with sh if it isn't actually a shell 16:35:00 and vice versa 16:35:01 (I think clog is working, if you acre) 16:35:11 ais523: Punishable by hanging! 16:35:15 that way, we could sue microsoft for giving cmd an incorrect name 16:36:00 that's quite an acknowledgements page 16:36:21 (and he's incorrect that nobody would read it; a significant minority of people read manuals from front to back, including the useless metadata like that) 16:37:16 ais523: Significant minority = {ais523} 16:37:17 hey, he misspelled Amerika 16:37:20 it's Amerikkka 16:37:52 I love how he says he did it all by myself only centimetres after the list of authors. 16:38:09 which cambridge is that? 16:38:22 is that mit cambridge or cambridge cambridge? 16:38:47 Last modified: Monday, May 8th, 2006 3:55:48pm MET-1MST-2,M3.5.0,M10.5.0 16:39:01 oh right, america 16:39:04 * cheater just woke up 16:39:30 you know, a fully paid 5 pm nap at work is something i have been aiming for very long in my career 16:39:31 ais523: scsh does have a shell in it, though 16:39:33 well 16:39:34 "A shell language, modeled using quasi-quotation." 16:39:50 Scsh is an open-source Unix shell embedded within Scheme, running on all major Unix platforms including AIX, Cygwin, Linux, FreeBSD, GNU Hurd, HP-UX, Irix, Mac OS X, Solaris, and some others. 16:39:56 Scsh is an open-source Unix shell 16:40:06 (scsh = Scheme + list/character/string stuff + actually-regular expressions not using regexp syntax (s-exp dsl) + networking + awk-like stuff + ptys + shell of sorts) 16:40:07 i'm missing something 16:41:02 -!- ais523 has left (?). 16:41:31 lol 16:41:36 <3 that quitmsg 16:41:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:41:47 wb ais523 16:41:51 ais523: nice quitmsg!! 16:41:56 'twas a misclick 16:41:57 misclick? nothing happened when you were away 16:42:03 ais523: stop violating causality 16:42:05 also, what is my quit message on here? I keep forgetting 16:42:06 sure has! 16:42:08 fizzie: it makes demons fly out of my window, washing the windows api 16:42:09 elliott: so i figure i'll only run it up to just ( walk-collection ( lambda ( x y) 16:42:09 this has happened: 16:42:10 that 16:42:11 17:41 < cheater> lol 16:42:12 17:41 < cheater> <3 that quitmsg 16:42:12 ah, that one 16:42:13 (byte-for-byte) 16:42:16 genuine fungot quote, ofc 16:42:16 mine is 16:42:17 ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic 16:42:18 -!- elliott has left (?). 16:42:21 -!- elliott has joined. 16:42:26 which i rather like 16:42:31 oh, that's a fungot quote? 16:42:32 ais523: if you managed to get .fi connections a really, really don't know any such people gobs of dough if i use the server vm works differently than it used to be 16:42:41 ais523: nope, just my /part and /quit message 16:42:47 it's aaaall my own invention 16:42:51 all one additional word of it 16:43:14 fungot, say something smart 16:43:14 cheater: yes, the package is loaded, that's it 16:43:25 surprisingly that has worked 16:43:34 ais523: if you managed to get .fi connections a really, really don't know any such people gobs of dough if i use the server vm works differently than it used to be 16:43:34 elliott: what're you busy with? otherwise they are not an official term? :) 16:43:37 thought fizzie said this for a second 16:43:44 wasted about ten seconds trying to parse it 16:43:51 haha 16:43:55 fungot is creepy like that 16:43:56 cheater: i know that 16:43:59 08:42:17 ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic 16:43:59 elliott: ( ( ( call-with-current-continuation call-with-current-continuation)) does not move you up the hierarchy until you get the idea 16:44:00 :DDDD 16:44:00 i know you do, fungot 16:44:01 cheater: useful things, towels and such mostly for school, i'll continue debugging egobot later _o 16:44:07 `addquote ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic 16:44:07 elliott: what if it was doable with lexical scoping? i certainly haven't thought about that as well. 16:44:12 `addquote elliott: ( ( ( call-with-current-continuation call-with-current-continuation)) does not move you up the hierarchy until you get the idea 16:44:13 elliott: aha. we're talking about a real case 16:44:14 243| ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic 16:44:26 243| elliott: ( ( ( call-with-current-continuation call-with-current-continuation)) does not move you up the hierarchy until you get the idea 16:44:55 ais523: by "mine is" I meant "my quit message is:" 16:44:58 demonstrated by my /part 16:45:03 not "my quit message is [also a fungot quote]" 16:45:04 elliott: who art the beginning of the next line in still more lines? 16:45:16 fungot: was that shakespeare? 16:45:16 cheater: the unique tag is generated using genetic algorithms)? hehe. how do you hold it against the skin and it can 16:45:20 elliott: ah, OK 16:45:29 fungot: i don't know. 16:45:30 cheater: ok, tell me where that matkakortti issue is discussed?) very similar to polish ones. like fnord is a good example 16:45:44 fungot: fnord indeed. 16:45:45 cheater: even better: submit the whole hyperspec as a srfi? ( asking for no special reason. i rang and rang the doorbell but no one came. fortunately some stranger noticed my efforts and borrowed me a cell phone as a portable error procedure: ( write obj port) 16:45:50 * elliott decides that the font Ubuntu Sans most reminds him of is Trebuchet MS. 16:45:56 Except more... interfacey. 16:45:57 fungot: ok 16:45:57 cheater: enjoy your crow. that 16:46:07 elliott: interfacey? 16:48:19 http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl/geotica.html new exljbris typeface 16:49:17 speaking of exlibris, i should have one made 16:49:24 i've got like 300 maths books that need to be stamped 16:50:46 time to go check out the tom oberheim sem 16:50:57 it's going to be an amazing trip into synthesizer history! 16:57:20 -!- Harpyon has joined. 17:10:34 -!- Wamanuz4 has joined. 17:10:42 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:11:02 elliott: All broadcast systems should be replaced with IP multicast. 17:11:31 pikhq: I repeat what I said about DHT :P 17:11:32 Radio & OTA TV? Fuck that, we're using the entire radio spectrum for Internet. Satellite? Internet. Cable? Internet. 17:11:40 pikhq: And then we can INTEGRATE IT WITH MULTICAST 17:11:46 Yes, the entire radio spectrum. 17:11:57 -!- antivigilante has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 17:11:58 Including LIGHT?!?!?11212p[ 17:12:00 {} 17:12:02 @ 17:12:38 elliott: The entire spectrum practical for data transmission. 17:12:42 -!- antivigilante has joined. 17:14:20 pikhq: http://iginomarini.com/fell/the-revival-fonts/ These typefaces are amazingly beautiful and the digitised revivals are released in OpenType with the SIL Open Font License. 17:14:57 pikhq: *Somehow,* it even works on the web: http://joel.thegoodmanblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/fellgreatprimer.png 17:15:04 (and http://joel.thegoodmanblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/fellenglish.png) 17:16:02 elliott: The gorgeousity! 17:16:26 pikhq: Scroll down to the bottom of http://iginomarini.com/fell/wp-content/uploads/firefoxdaggett.jpg after seeing the picture to see it accurately reproduce a 1700s text, including beautiful long s. 17:16:38 pikhq: "Reſidence" in particular looks awesome. 17:17:48 elliott: *That* is the font that The Time Machine should be typeset with. 17:18:28 pikhq: I actually thought that. But, I'm not so sure: It seems too florid, somehow; The Time Machine is quite dry. 17:18:34 But it is the right sort of period of type... 17:18:43 pikhq: It's a one- or two-liner in XeLaTeX to try it out, so... 17:18:54 pikhq: I just wish XeLaTeX had all the microtype features. That'd be perfect. 17:19:12 I wonder if their new optical margin support is any good. 17:19:13 elliott: It's planned, just not in yet. 17:19:26 Optical margins are in, iirc. 17:20:27 Good; that's probably the most important. 17:20:44 You were the one who told me they had it :P 17:20:51 Oh, right. :P 17:21:00 what are optical margins? 17:21:27 ais523: the left and right margins of a justified block of text are subtly adjusted so they are not exactly equal 17:21:37 to account for the unequal appearance of various glyphs 17:21:44 oh, I see 17:21:44 this makes margins look straighter to the human eye 17:21:52 since different glyphs may have more prominence to the left/right or not 17:21:54 so a line ending with d is slightly shorter than a line ending with o 17:22:02 ais523: yep 17:22:05 that makes sense 17:22:08 although it's more useful for the left margins, I think 17:22:12 but yeah, it improves readability 17:22:19 since the eye can always go to the "exact same place" 17:22:23 of course, it's very minor, but still... 17:22:25 looks pretty! 17:22:30 elliott: It happens to make the line-breaking work better. 17:22:36 That too. 17:22:49 I would have thought the fovea, despite being small, is large enough that if there was sufficient light, that would work just fine 17:22:53 Though the variable character spacing helps with that. 17:23:01 with either margin situation 17:23:07 Erm, helps much more. 17:23:29 hmm: what's next in this sequence: annually, biannually, quarterly, ? 17:23:45 ais523: true, it's more psychological 17:23:53 or probably entirely psychological 17:24:14 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:25:02 light is impractical for data transmission 17:25:02 catseye: oerjan told me to tell you: you don't say. 17:25:03 catseye: oerjan told me to tell you: Choosing the same prefix and command as lambdabot may not be such a good idea. 17:25:03 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test1 17:25:03 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test2 17:25:03 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test3 17:25:03 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test4 17:25:03 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test5 17:25:04 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test6 17:25:04 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test7 17:25:05 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test8 17:25:05 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test9 17:25:06 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test10 17:25:06 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test11 17:25:07 catseye: elliott told me to tell you: test12 17:25:14 there were 20 of those! 17:25:18 i demand a refund 17:25:24 elliott: storkbot's probably been fakelagged or something 17:25:27 or just given up 17:25:31 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:25:42 --- :holmes.freenode.net NOTICE storkbot :*** Message to #esoteric throttled due to flooding 17:25:57 :D 17:26:06 it did spew out all 20 17:28:51 * pikhq is actually looking forward to Firefox 4. 17:28:55 pikhq: What the world needs: an olde-style monospace font. 17:29:02 It appears to be fixing a lot of the suck in Firefox. 17:29:03 Fell Monospaced. 17:29:15 pikhq: firefox 4 is also copying the irrelevant part of the chrome interface 17:29:21 because apparently they're idiots 17:29:25 elliott: Which bit? 17:29:33 pikhq: http://www.teknobites.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/firefox4-designs.png 17:29:44 pikhq: The "in the window chrome bit", while failing to copy the "tab bar as title bar" thing. 17:29:51 They just put things in the window chrome. For... no reason. 17:30:12 tab bar as title bar annoys me 17:30:16 elliott: The tab bar as title bar is now the default for Firefox 4. 17:30:20 because it no longer works like a title bar is supposed to 17:30:29 pikhq: Now it looks like this: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/17/2009/12/500x_firefox_4_look.jpg 17:30:36 pikhq: Which is just awkward-looking. 17:30:38 Erm, wait, no. It's just below the title bar. 17:30:49 Other crazy ideas: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/17/2009/12/500x_firefox_buttons.jpg 17:31:01 *Fortunately*, that's configurable. 17:31:35 That is, you can at least make it look like a "normal" tabbed interface. Which is much less awkward. 17:31:38 pikhq: I cannot comprehend why Mozilla doesn't just fire every UI designer apart from Aza Raskin. 17:31:48 And the "things in the window chrome" bit is just on Windows 7 & Vista. 17:32:13 Still, their UI designers suck, and the saving grace is that most of the suck can be tweaked away. 17:32:23 i just use chrome, i never have to think about it 17:32:27 it's barely even a program :P 17:32:38 pikhq: Nonono, Aza Raskin is awesome to the max 17:32:43 He just gets lumped in with stoopid people :( 17:32:55 Firefox 4 should be actually support OpenType features. 17:33:17 pikhq: One thing that's been holding Firefox back for god knows how long: Skins. 17:33:19 Stupidest. Idea. Ever. 17:33:27 elliott: It's common on Windows. 17:33:30 (Yet how many thousands of people probably started using Firefox because of them? Blergh.) 17:33:35 pikhq: It's also retarded. 17:33:39 Anyway, it was *not* common. 17:33:45 And they have the nerve to accuse *Linux* developers of inconsistency. 17:33:50 Winamp did it, and nothing else. 17:33:54 Then they added it to Mozilla. 17:33:58 Now everything does it because of them. 17:34:12 elliott: Windows Media Player did skins since XP 17:34:20 ais523: Mozilla predates XP 17:34:24 (Mozilla is 1998) 17:34:31 ah, I see 17:34:36 And IE had skins since IE 4. Honest-to-god. 17:34:42 pikhq: Yeaah, but... nobody used them. 17:34:49 BESIDE THE POINT 17:35:29 The habit of making a different, distinct set of widgets for each app has been in the Windows dev culture for ages. 17:35:43 Office started it, the bastards. 17:36:54 it's a form of... what's the word 17:36:58 pikhq: I want to publish something in a Fell typeface now. 17:37:01 catseye: Idiocy? 17:37:46 I think the only programs on Linux that have the nerve to design their *own widget schemes* are imports from Windows. 17:38:03 lock-in 17:38:16 catseye: Except it doesn't do that at all. 17:38:23 catseye: It just makes things look different. 17:38:50 [[Whenever a programmer thinks, "Hey, skins, what a cool idea", their computer's speakers should create some sort of cock-shaped soundwave and plunge it repeatedly through their skulls.]] 17:38:51 --Makali 17:38:52 Lessee... Chrome, Mozilla, Firefox, Opera, Java (good GOD why can't they just make Swing use GTK as a backend)... 17:38:56 people are reluctant to leave what they have gotten used to. granted it's more psychology than actual usability. 17:38:56 ("I am fully in support of this proposed audio-cock technology." --jwz, in response) 17:39:10 Oh, and things that predate the duopoly of GTK and Qt. 17:39:22 pikhq: and things that use crazy toolkits because 17:39:27 (people like me!) 17:39:31 pikhq: also, chrome uses gtk 17:39:39 elliott: Yes, and it has its own widgets. 17:39:45 pikhq: well no 17:39:48 pikhq: it has gtk widgets styled according to its whims :) 17:40:00 ...with an appropriate skin it looks and acts entirely native though so *shrug* 17:40:00 No, it has its own widgets distinct from the GTK theme. 17:40:07 rubbish default look worked around 17:40:08 -!- elliott has left (?). 17:40:11 -!- elliott has joined. 17:40:14 Is there a Grey Mist skin? 17:40:19 pikhq: but the *behaviour* is gtk's 17:40:25 Lessee... Chrome, Mozilla, Firefox, Opera, Java (good GOD why can't they just make Swing use GTK as a backend)... <--- firefox? it looks native to me here? 17:40:26 Well, true. 17:40:28 pikhq: grey mist skin: tell it to use WM title bars + click "Use GTK theme" 17:40:32 Vorpal: XUL 17:40:37 Vorpal: It apes the GTK theme. 17:40:41 *GTK+ 17:40:41 elliott: Insufficient. 17:40:42 pikhq, ah 17:40:48 elliott: It still uses a distinct widget set. 17:40:55 pikhq: whine whine i can't care any more 17:41:00 That damned scrollbar is NOT Grey Mist. 17:41:03 so many gratuitous features to add! so little time! 17:41:09 pikhq: there are skins for the scrollbar :P 17:41:13 it's not the perfect situation but ehh 17:41:15 it's a nice browser 17:41:25 Yes, but is there one that makes it use the actual GTK widgets? 17:42:00 pikhq, hm, looks the same as clearlooks to me 17:42:03 -!- kiwigrin has joined. 17:42:05 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 17:42:08 I guess it is better at that theme 17:42:37 Vorpal: It's actually using the Android widget set. 17:42:50 Dillo does native GTK widgets for you. :p 17:42:57 pikhq, is firefox? 17:42:59 pikhq, wtf 17:43:05 Vorpal: No, Chrome does. 17:43:12 pikhq, oh I was talking about firefox 17:43:29 bbl 17:43:37 Vorpal: Firefox is using XUL for the interface, and the default theme *happens* to do horrible things to GTK to get out the glyphs for the native widgets. 17:44:00 78 17:44:02 whoops 17:44:04 pikhq, well, it works well for me. 17:45:19 in condord with foo 17:45:26 *conquered 17:45:49 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:45:54 catseye: Re storkie, I was hoping for an excess-flood thanks to elliott times 20. 17:46:55 elliott: no continuations in pixley+message_passing+modules; send creates no new bindings, recv and spawn do, but have let-based semantics to expose them to the subexpression. (Also, language needs a name.) 17:47:23 catseye: Scheme 0.0001 17:47:50 fizzie: I suppose I would have to insert some throttling code, if I were to take it seriously. 17:48:04 elliott: Scheme from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea 17:50:34 Also, why does weechat-curses not understand 'home' and 'end'? Distracting 17:50:59 All IRC clients are not quite what you want -- it's a law or something. 17:56:54 catseye: What's a good language? 17:57:47 >:} 17:57:57 elliott: I AM MAKING A CHART K 17:58:16 cpGOODLANG 17:58:47 elliott: Have you ever seen that "programming languages as cars" newsgroup ha-ha article? 17:58:54 No. 17:58:55 it's old 17:59:10 i hosted an extended version of it on my site a loooong time ago 18:00:08 http://sucs.org/~manic/humour/languages/progcars.htm 18:00:47 I added entries for Java, ML, and Befunge, iirc 18:03:32 pikhq: Hey, maybe I'll just set The Untitled Document in a Fell type. 18:04:14 [[LISP - An electric car. It's simple but slow. Seat belts are not available.]] 18:04:19 catseye: sometimes i never can quite understand the logic behind these 18:04:27 [[FORTH - A go-cart.]] 18:04:28 ??? 18:04:36 [[LOGO - A kiddie's replica of a Rolls Royce. Comes with a real engine and a working horn.]] 18:04:42 so is Lisp an electric car or a rolls royce? 18:04:47 an electric rolls royce that comes without seatbelts? 18:05:15 pikhq: Although I'd need a monospaced version... which I just wished for. 18:07:06 elliott: Have you considered... Replacing everything everywhere? :D 18:07:14 pikhq: Yes. 18:07:18 pikhq: Now go design Fell Monospaced. 18:07:44 elliott: No. I need to design a non-crappy torrent file maker. 18:08:05 And then while I'm at it, a whole torrent client. 18:08:21 With blackjack! And hookers! 18:08:54 hm the bank website goes all screwy if you open more than one tab. 18:10:39 pikhq: Transmission is just fine :P 18:10:49 pikhq: But you think it's suboptimal for initial DHT seeds? 18:10:55 pikhq: Link me to random_data served by Deluge? :) 18:11:03 elliott: No. Deluge sucks worse. 18:11:09 elliott: It uses a whole CPU. 18:11:13 -!- augur has joined. 18:11:15 pikhq: VUZE (no) 18:11:34 Transmission at least has a decent UI. 18:11:41 And doesn't *use a whole CPU*. 18:11:55 Only 2/3rds of a CPU 18:11:58 It just has some lacks in its protocol handling. 18:12:08 Gregor: Actually, it goes between idle and 2%. 18:12:24 OK, only 2/100ths. At least my numerator was right. 18:12:28 :P 18:13:03 pikhq: Mmf, but I wanna see DHT working! 18:13:06 Pick a third client :P 18:13:23 pikhq: Here, try qBitTorrent. 18:13:25 It's based on libtorrent. 18:13:30 Fugly UI, but maybe it'll get DHT right! 18:13:56 (Note: I like Transmission, I just wanna see this DHT thing work :P) 18:15:05 elliott: Trying. 18:15:25 Or http://btg.berlios.de/ 18:15:37 Or http://code.google.com/p/linkage/ 18:15:40 I'm just listing libtorrent things here 18:15:49 pikhq: You may have to create that session directory thing like rtorrent, right? 18:16:04 elliott: There's two different libtorrents. 18:16:20 elliott: rtorrent uses one, everyone else uses a different one. 18:16:23 pikhq: I am referring to the rasterbar one. 18:16:34 pikhq: Ah. 18:16:36 Which rtorrent doesn't use. 18:16:37 pikhq: So stupid. 18:16:40 Well, whatever. 18:16:44 Rasterbar has a ton of features. 18:16:48 So it should do DHT right. 18:17:05 Yuh. 18:17:19 It still lacks things like tracker exchange, though. 18:19:04 "By the way all the ligatures and swash characters are directly accessible in the OpenType version. Historical forms are also accessible through the “hist” feature or as Stylistic Set." 18:19:10 Fell-ate Types 18:19:28 -!- cal153 has joined. 18:20:00 elliott: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:C3XSTFZIWGJFSEWX5NIXO3UKEJXWDSAV&dn=random_image 18:20:09 pikhq: &dn= is a TOOL OF THE STATE 18:20:15 pikhq: Also: SO CAPS 18:20:33 * elliott adds magnet:?xt=urn:btih:c3xstfziwgjfsewx5nixo3ukejxwdsav 18:21:02 pikhq: Let's see if I can do this. 18:21:09 Mmkay. 18:21:11 brb 18:21:29 an electric rolls royce that comes without seatbelts? 18:21:43 partly it is a generational gap, partly they are just stupidcheesy. 18:22:10 or maybe those are the same phenomenon. well, whatever. 18:22:28 pikhq: Downloading. 18:22:33 pikhq: 11.6 KiB/s but it worked. 18:22:53 Gregor: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:c3xstfziwgjfsewx5nixo3ukejxwdsav 18:22:54 Gregor: ADD IT 18:22:55 \o/ 18:23:02 Vorpal: Or you 18:23:15 elliott, me what? 18:23:22 Vorpal: Add that magnet URI to your torrent client 18:23:28 It is a bunch of /dev/random distributed entirely by DHT 18:23:30 No trackers 18:23:32 No IPs 18:23:35 And it works. 18:23:39 elliott, okay fun, but why 18:23:41 pikhq: If someone else manages to download from me, I will be officially impressed and propose that we replace the internet with a DHT. 18:23:43 Vorpal: Because IT IS AWESOME. 18:23:51 Vorpal: If you get two peers, then that means *you managed to get me from pikhq*. 18:23:55 Basically it is AWESOME. 18:24:00 Start with nothing, get a random file pikhq *just made*. 18:24:05 Vorpal: He didn't even post it anywhere. 18:24:07 hm 18:24:11 elliott, DHT? 18:24:12 He puts it in his client, gives us a checksum, and *we can download it*. 18:24:13 Vorpal: Yes. 18:24:17 Vorpal: Add it and watch the awesome. 18:24:23 magnet:?xt=urn:btih:c3xstfziwgjfsewx5nixo3ukejxwdsav 18:24:31 elliott, I see no where to open it in ktorrent 18:24:34 it isn't a url 18:24:37 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 18:24:37 Vorpal: Look for an "Add URL" link 18:24:38 so open url seems wrong 18:24:41 IT IS A URL 18:24:42 magnet:/xt=purn:bitch:wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 18:24:42 It will work. 18:24:44 pikhq: It's a URN 18:24:47 It doesn't locate anything 18:24:49 elliott: Oh, right. 18:24:50 It names some data 18:24:51 But whatever 18:24:53 It is a URI, though. 18:24:58 elliott, indeed! 18:25:02 Vorpal: Does it work? 18:25:05 elliott, no 18:25:10 Vorpal: It may take about 30 seconds at absolute worst to connect to pikhq. 18:25:16 Vorpal: If it actually shows in the list, then just give it some time. 18:25:22 elliott, it just waits there, not even showing the "select where to save the files" box 18:25:33 Vorpal: Then ktorrent sucks. 18:25:36 Vorpal: Get transmission-qt! 18:25:48 elliott, it says "DHT: 500 nodes, 2 tasks" in the task bar though 18:25:54 Vorpal: It fails at magnet URIs. 18:26:03 Which are the important thing here. 18:26:13 (The torrent file would include *marginally* more information, which defeats the whole fun.) 18:26:20 pikhq: Dood, I lost you and now you're pack as a peer. 18:26:26 Now I'm downloading from you. 18:26:40 elliott, well, how could it list the "select files to download and where to save it" without getting the info 18:26:45 elliott: Mrf? 18:26:58 elliott, no luck 18:27:20 elliott, ah the magnet tab says "downloading...." 18:27:25 peers 0 18:27:41 elliott, so while in theory it should work, in practise it doesn't 18:27:48 and I doubt ktorrent is to blame 18:27:50 Vorpal: It does. 18:27:53 It takes a minute or so at worst. 18:28:00 Vorpal: It needs to connect to a peer via DHT in order to get the checksums and the file names and file sizes. 18:28:00 -!- Harpyon has quit (Quit: Harpyon). 18:28:03 elliott, depends on if you are lucky with your dht peers 18:28:06 Vorpal: No it doesn't. 18:28:11 Vorpal: That's not how DHT works. 18:28:12 elliott, oh? 18:28:14 The DHT is organised precisely so that DHT doesn't go slowly. 18:28:20 well yes 18:28:20 The hashspace is allocated to various sections. 18:28:23 Vorpal: It's a single gigantic network. 18:28:29 After a few hits, you are on the right track. Literally. 18:28:47 pikhq, so why doesn't it find you then? 18:28:51 Vorpal: because ktorrent sucks 18:29:01 elliott, um maybe because I do it over ipv6? 18:29:05 Vorpal: No. 18:29:08 Vorpal: You... *force IPv6*? 18:29:09 I don't have ipv4 port forwarding set up 18:29:11 elliott, ^ 18:29:21 Vorpal: You already knew that was the issue, you just wanted to waste our time... 18:29:26 Vorpal: ... Wait, that would prevent you from bootstrapping DHT. 18:29:31 elliott, no I didn't think it would be the issue at first 18:29:32 Vorpal: You are a moron. 18:29:42 Vorpal: >_< 18:29:45 Nobody else uses IPv6! 18:29:45 pikhq, my router crashes badly if I try to add udp port forwarding 18:29:51 Buy a new router. 18:29:52 elliott: I do. 18:29:53 elliott: :) 18:29:55 Even my shitty ISP-provided one works. 18:29:57 elliott, you pay? 18:30:01 pikhq: Do you use only-IPv6 for anything? 18:30:03 elliott, mine is shitty ISP provided 18:30:08 So's mine. 18:30:09 and it only started doing this recently 18:30:10 elliott: No. 18:30:11 And it's a really shitty ISP. 18:30:14 pikhq: Well then. 18:30:34 huh 18:30:35 that sounds cool and all, but who wants random data from him? my own random pool is probably full, and one random bit is as good as another... 18:30:42 elliott, now it says it found you. How strange 18:30:49 Vorpal: Indeed, I can see you. 18:30:53 I am even downloading from you. (Why?) 18:30:55 * Vorpal cancels download 18:31:00 Vorpal: Wait. 18:31:08 You would have got two peers if you waited. 18:31:09 Sheesh. 18:31:13 elliott, I had two 18:31:14 ... 18:31:15 My client would have given you pikhq. 18:31:15 Ah. 18:31:26 Then everything worked perfectly, it's just that because you're on IPv6-only it was ultra-slow. 18:31:30 elliott, so it works to find it. I don't plan to download 20 MB now, I'm uploading something large 18:31:36 quintopia: It was only random so that we could be sure that nobody else had ever had this file before. 18:31:36 Vorpal: Okay, so we have demonstrated that DHT works just fine for you. 18:31:42 quintopia: this is highly advanced random data from the FUTURE. 18:31:46 quintopia: That would compromise the integrity of the experiment. 18:31:49 and bittorrent slows that down badly 18:31:56 We have demonstrated that DHT is magical. 18:32:06 Now for our next experiment, we will demonstrate that DMT is magical. 18:32:09 elliott, it isn't magical as such, just somewhat 18:32:13 It's only one letter off! 18:32:39 -!- Harpyon has joined. 18:32:40 tesla was the electric jesus :D 18:32:42 elliott, err Discrete multi-tone modulation? 18:32:56 http://www.google.com/search?q=DMT 18:32:58 First result: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine 18:33:02 N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is a naturally occurring hallucinogenic drug of the tryptamine family. This drug is found not only in many plants,[3] but also in trace amounts in the human body, where its natural function remains undetermined. Structurally, it is analogous to the neurotransmitter serotonin (5-HT) and other hallucinogenic tryptamines such as 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenin (5-OH-DMT), and psilocin (4-HO-DMT). DMT is created in small amounts by the hu 18:33:03 man body during normal metabolism[4] by the enzyme tryptamine-N-methyltransferase. Many cultures, indigenous and modern, ingest DMT as a psychedelic, in either extracted or synthesized forms.[5] When refined, DMT is a clear to white, crystalline solid. However, DMT found on the illicit market is commonly impure and may appear yellow, orange, or salmon in color, unless special care has been taken to remove these impurities. Such impurities result from d 18:33:03 egradation or originate from plant matter from which the DMT may have been extracted. 18:33:09 elliott, not for me, but I'm logged in to gmail 18:33:17 Now, WHO WANTS SOME SOURCE CODE VIA BITTORRENT? 18:33:18 Maybe you have safe search turned on. 18:33:21 catseye: i can see how that would be better than normal random data, since not only is it completely unknowable in advance (because its random) but i can also know it in advance! (because it is from the future) 18:33:22 pikhq: ski? Absolutely. 18:33:27 pikhq: DO NOT INCLUDE THE NAME 18:33:31 Names shall be found through DHT 18:33:42 elliott, first result for me is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogonal_frequency-division_multiplexing, "Orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing (OFDM), essentially identical to coded OFDM (COFDM) and discrete multi-tone modulation (DMT)." 18:33:44 elliott: Okay. 18:33:45 In the future reality, the hash will replace all other identifiers 18:33:55 pikhq: I'm just gonna stop downloading random_image now. 18:33:58 quintopia: indeed! they really ought to be charging more for such valuable goods 18:34:04 pikhq, invent a version control system over bittorrent 18:34:08 no, I don't know how 18:34:21 Vorpal: If I can convince pikhq to, we are totally reinventing the internet as a DHT. 18:34:24 Like Freenet but better. 18:34:31 And more P2P. 18:34:31 magnet:?xt=urn:btih:GIE5JPJQDQALGZ4XNEHATD3NMPFIWDR6 18:34:35 I want a version control system that lets me revert to future as-yet-unwritten versions! 18:34:36 pikhq: LOWERCASE 18:34:36 :P 18:34:37 Vorpal: Git already can. 18:34:48 magnet:?xt=urn:btih:gie5jpjqdqalgz4xnehatd3nmpfiwdr6 18:34:56 pikhq: Okay, added. 18:35:01 I will say when I get you as a peer so we can time it. 18:35:12 It's like 30k. :) 18:35:29 Doody doo. 18:35:33 Got a peer. 18:35:37 pikhq: Now I have the name. 18:35:39 Now I'm downloading. 18:35:41 Now I have it. 18:35:45 Now I'm seeding (to nobody). 18:35:48 \o/ 18:35:52 MAGIC! 18:36:05 10:34:56 to 10:35:45 according to clog. 18:36:11 Or 41, depending on what timestamp you believe. 18:36:24 So basically... 45 to 49 seconds. 18:36:43 Vorpal: Git already can. <-- huh 18:36:51 pikhq: DHT = magical. 18:36:52 pikhq: Although. 18:36:57 pikhq: Would my client have tried you sooner since I was -- no. 18:37:02 No, it wouldn't; that would have gone quickly. 18:37:05 My client did it from scratch. 18:37:08 A W E S O M E 18:38:00 how does it work? 18:38:39 quintopia: World-wide hash table is used to go from the identifying hash to peers. It asks these peers for the torrent info. It then downloads from these peers. 18:38:40 quintopia: Awesomely. 18:39:04 quintopia: Follow up to what pikhq said: And then further peers are discovered from peers we're already connected to. 18:39:06 quintopia: Wait, sec: 18:39:16 quintopia: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:bcf2e587afd4d3b1bdd8ece5150d9fb4d2958af4 18:39:20 quintopia: Put this in your client. 18:39:23 (Nothing illegal.) 18:39:29 "world-wide" meaning "all peers have a copy of at least some of the table"? 18:39:40 catseye: All DHT peers, yes. 18:39:45 k 18:39:48 catseye: The hashspace is divided between all peers, I think. 18:40:15 quintopia: You will notice that, given nothing but what amounts to a *hash* of a structure that contains only a title, a filename, a file size and a checksum of that file, within about 10 seconds you're downloading Ubuntu from tens of peers. 18:40:18 elliott: wait, it's actually working? 18:40:22 Mathnerd314: yep 18:40:29 Mathnerd314: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:gie5jpjqdqalgz4xnehatd3nmpfiwdr6 18:40:32 to get some code from pikhq 18:40:33 oh wait 18:40:35 pikhq: have you stopped seeding? 18:40:36 taht's okay 18:40:37 I can seed 18:40:38 *that's 18:40:40 Nope. 18:40:47 I'm not connected to you. But whatever. 18:40:56 Mathnerd314: Add that magnet and it should download from both of us. 18:40:58 elliott: that hash points to maverick final? 18:41:03 I see him. 18:41:05 quintopia: not the one i linked Mathnerd314 to 18:41:08 but the one before it, yes 18:41:10 quintopia: but no -- not points 18:41:23 quintopia: It is merely a *hash* of a structure that basically amounts to a file name, size, and a checksum. 18:41:40 quintopia: The magic of DHT means we can *download a file knowing basically nothing but a hash of a checksum*. 18:41:41 a hash of a hash 18:41:53 yes, but it points to after looking up in the global hashtable, yes? 18:41:53 quintopia: From tens upon tens of people, maxing out more or less any connection (it's Ubuntu, after all). 18:42:00 quintopia: Sure. 18:42:04 quintopia: It doesn't point to the file. 18:42:26 Just to an info structure with the file name, size and checksum in; DHT peers can also say "[some IP] is peering this". 18:42:36 And then we can use peer exchange to get peers from those peers, and find more peers on the DHT... 18:42:39 And this all happens very, very quickly. 18:42:47 quintopia: Try adding magnet:?xt=urn:btih:bcf2e587afd4d3b1bdd8ece5150d9fb4d2958af4 if you haven't already. 18:42:51 quintopia: You'll be amazed how fast it goes. 18:42:54 And at no point is a tracker involved. 18:42:57 pikhq: I don't see Mathnerd314. 18:43:15 pikhq: Which is odd, since I saw Vorpal. 18:43:20 I see him. 18:43:21 pikhq: Is your peer exchange working? 18:43:39 And I saw you for half a sec. 18:43:49 pikhq: o_O 18:43:51 Oh well. 18:43:52 Aaand his client is requesting nothing. 18:44:00 pikhq: Try restarting your client :P 18:44:01 I'll do the same 18:44:04 quintopia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_hash_table is about DHTs in general 18:44:06 elliott: i'm trying to figure out how 18:44:12 quintopia: what client? 18:44:18 elliott: Deluge. 18:44:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:44:22 elliott: Which SUCKS ASS. 18:44:25 pikhq: you don't know that 18:44:27 Mathnerd314 was on deluge iirc 18:44:35 elliott: I have tried it. It SUCKS. 18:44:42 Oh, wait, quintopia. 18:44:43 pikhq: YOU DON'T KNOW THAT QUINTOPIA USES DELUGE :| 18:44:58 Deluge does suck, though. 18:45:14 pikhq, ktorrent is the best one I seen so far for linux 18:45:27 Vorpal: You, sir, have no taste. 18:45:36 transmission-qt 18:45:37 seriously 18:45:37 pikhq, tried rtorrent and transmission-gtk. Both were sucky IMO 18:45:39 or -gtk if you want that 18:45:44 elliott, never tried the qt one 18:45:45 Why, was Transmission too ~simple~? 18:45:50 elliott, yes 18:45:53 Not enough twiddly knobs? 18:45:55 Ahahaha 18:45:59 It's more full-featured than most clients. 18:46:01 rtorrent: a torrent client written in R 18:46:09 okay, DHT is on. now just have to find where a magnet: URI goes... 18:46:15 Congratulations: you have actually developed a mind that rejects programs because they look *too easy to use *. 18:46:19 Vorpal: You are not allowed to have opinions about UIs. 18:46:20 quintopia: What client? 18:46:23 ktorrent 18:46:35 quintopia: "Open URL" or whatever. 18:46:39 You also have no taste. 18:46:51 elliott, I was unable to find features that were nice in ktorrent 18:46:58 Vorpal: Such as... 18:47:19 yeah, i don't torrent much. i use it because it is there. 18:47:19 elliott, well, peer listing with countries for ips iirc. 18:47:34 pikhq: Let us admire the last message sent to this channel. 18:47:48 Let's just... stare at it. 18:47:56 yeah it still says it doesn't know the magnet protocol 18:48:02 so not open url 18:48:11 quintopia: install transmission-{gtk,qt}; pick one :p 18:48:13 elliott, it seems a bit more advanced in the current version 18:48:13 quintopia: Uninstall it. 18:48:13 worked for Vorpal though 18:48:15 just checked 18:48:37 elliott, when I tried it, it was at pre-1.0 18:49:06 Then it's a bit misleading to criticise it based on very old perceptions, isn't it? 18:49:15 It still doesn't have countries in the peer list, though! 18:49:18 elliott: wait, so I have random_data, random_image, ski, GRegor-op13-mov1.ogg, and ubuntu-10.10-desktop-i386.iso all open. which of them work? 18:49:23 elliott, true, I didn't think of that 18:49:32 Mathnerd314: Uhh, you can get rid of the gregor and ubuntu ones. 18:49:33 removed, installing xmission 18:49:36 elliott, I like pointless statistics. 18:49:40 quintopia: you may want the -qt version 18:49:44 Vorpal: Fitting. 18:49:47 Mathnerd314: In fact all of them but ski. 18:49:50 Vorpal: "I like pointless[ness]" 18:49:52 Mathnerd314: Although the Ubuntu one should work fine. 18:49:52 21% of all statistics are pointless 18:50:07 elliott, heck, so do you. Otherwise why did you admire fizzie's graphs and such so much? :P 18:50:20 I don't. 18:50:23 They amuse me. 18:50:26 i claim that there are no nests in the tree outside my window 18:50:29 You are the one obsessed with them. 18:50:33 elliott: transmission-qt is just a gui wrapper for -common 18:50:40 quintopia: Yes... so is -gtk. 18:50:45 quintopia: It's not a "wrapper". 18:50:47 It's one of the frontends. 18:50:49 elliott: ok, and ski is seeding? 18:50:55 Mathnerd314: I am; dunno about pikhq. 18:50:58 Mathnerd314: I am. 18:51:02 Vorpal: Anyway, I don't use fizzie Desktop Environment that provides me with graphs on my desktop. 18:51:08 For a reason other than it not existing, too. 18:51:13 elliott: I mean I downloaded it and am now seeding 18:51:20 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:51:22 Mathnerd314: Then congratulations; it worked. 18:51:31 pikhq: Link me to that gregor webseeded one again? 18:51:43 * Sgeo wonders if he should try Digsby again 18:51:44 elliott, aww 18:51:54 I wish Empathy was available for Windows 18:52:11 Empathy is the worst client ever apart from Pidgin. 18:52:13 elliott: frontend=wrapper in the sense (a port of one interface to another interface). in the case of GUI frontends, the new interface is a human interface... 18:52:15 Sgeo: No one has empathy for Windows. 18:52:21 quintopia: So why not install -qt? 18:52:23 Or -gtk. 18:52:28 elliott: Grah, now you made me start to download that Ubuntu because I wanted to see if those links work, and chose a random one. What am I supposed to do with ubuntu-10.10-desktop-i386.iso, huh? 18:52:32 elliott: i was already installing it when you said that 18:52:43 pikhq: why does deluge suck? 18:52:45 quintopia: oh, i thought you were dismissing it for being a frontend 18:52:50 fizzie: Start the ski one instead! 18:52:50 Mathnerd314: Run top 18:52:59 fizzie: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3209d4bd301c00b36797690e098f6d63ca8b0e3e 18:53:03 elliott: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:EMAAKALBHODH4WZGTN7MCXTWXCWM3N4E&ws=http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov1.ogg 18:53:07 fizzie: That one has two seeders and seemingly only pikhq's works. 18:53:13 pikhq: Wtf? Lame. Put the webseed in the .torrent. 18:53:21 pikhq: And use the hash of that. 18:53:24 pikhq: Or does that not work? :( 18:53:24 elliott: It is, but that won't get transferred. 18:53:28 pikhq: ...WHY NOT ;_; 18:53:36 elliott: *All* that gets transferred is the info dictionary. 18:53:44 pikhq: Why aren't webseeds in the info dictionary >__________> 18:53:47 elliott: Which contains *nothing* but checksums, filenames, and file lengths. 18:53:48 (Silly question, I know.) 18:53:54 pikhq: you forgot the torrent name 18:54:25 where the fuck did it install? trying to run "transmission" asks me to install -gtk 18:54:32 pikhq: ok, it uses up some cpu when the GUI is open... but then you can quit the gui and just leave the daemon running 18:54:39 quintopia: transmission-qt probably 18:54:42 elliott: Well, I saw two peers while downloading that latter one. 18:54:42 failing that look in your menus 18:54:47 fizzie: The ski one? 18:54:52 elliott: Right. 18:54:53 pfft menus 18:54:58 fizzie: Yay. I didn't seed to you, though. 18:55:42 pikhq: Proposal: A website where you can post DHT hashes and vote on them, plus a bunch of servers in a country with lax copyright laws that downloads the top N hashes (sometimes swapping out less well-off ones for balance) and seeds them, with a phat pipe. 18:55:47 TOTALLY PHAT PIPE 18:55:47 guess i've gotta run locate on root...good thing my system part is small 18:56:00 Mathnerd314: "Some"? 18:56:06 Mathnerd314: Try "1 of 3 cores". 18:56:17 Mathnerd314: i like how a gui using appreciable cpu is considered at all acceptable. 18:56:20 sorry, "hate" 18:56:20 pikhq: not for me 18:56:25 lax copyright laws + phat pipe = most popular nation in the UN 18:56:41 elliott: my point was that the GUI is hardly ever open 18:57:10 Lemme put it this way: if a GUI ever needs more than 2% of a CPU *just to run the GUI*, you're doing it motherfucking wrong. 18:57:21 Sealand? 18:58:06 Gregor: They have governmental issues. 18:58:11 And also burned to death a few years ago. 18:58:21 -!- tombom has joined. 18:58:23 Gregor: (There is a group of mobsters -- not joking -- who claim to be the Sealand government in exile). 18:58:27 *.) 18:58:32 Gregor: (They run a Sealand website claiming to be the real government.) 18:58:34 elliott: so, does this mean that you can do some work, give someone a hash, and they can download it? 18:58:42 Mathnerd314: Yes. If you seed it. 18:59:15 If *somebody* seeds it. 18:59:22 Well, yeah. 18:59:27 I was assuming a strict chronological order. 18:59:49 It is entirely possible for the torrent file to have ceased to exist and it still works so long as somebody is still seeding. 19:00:32 pikhq: How do I shot make .torrent file minimalised so no peers? 19:00:43 elliott: ? 19:00:48 elliott: THAT DOES NOT PARSE 19:01:14 God DAMMIT Berne Convention. 19:01:15 pikhq: Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? 19:01:30 pikhq: No but seriously: How do I strip all the stuff out of a .torrent to be suitable for this craziness? 19:01:31 It's an *international treaty* that sets the minimum copyright term to Life + 50 years. 19:01:48 elliott: Emacs, remove basically everything but the info dictionary. :) 19:02:18 pikhq: I'm retarded. Need more specific instructions. 19:02:27 There is big big binary blob, what is? 19:03:09 elliott: Uh, something. Part of the info dictionary. No touch. 19:03:28 Actually. I'm pretty sure that's the set of part hashes. 19:03:33 pikhq: Do I need d10:? 19:03:36 ah wait 19:03:39 I need d but not 10 right? 19:03:48 d10:created by25:Transmission/2.04 (11151) 19:03:53 I can strip out the 10 and 25 blocks there, right? 19:03:55 And the creation date. 19:03:59 What about encoding? 19:04:40 -!- Harpyon has quit (Quit: Harpyon). 19:04:44 elliott, in ktorrent I can just create one suitable for pure magnet directly! 19:04:45 :P 19:05:00 Vorpal: no, it will have excess 19:05:03 pure magnet would work with this 19:05:07 but it has more information than strictly necessary 19:05:12 this is just a stupid thing to do 19:05:23 ah 19:05:24 :P 19:05:30 bbl food 19:07:06 oh man, combine dht with rsync 19:08:07 my system does not contain a file named "transmission" 19:08:11 something went wrong... 19:08:12 * Mathnerd314 wonders when people will stop using HTTP 19:08:22 *containing 19:08:23 quintopia: it may be transmission-qt or whatever 19:08:25 Mathnerd314: never 19:08:52 in the future al protocols will be tunnelled over http -- for very good reasons! 19:08:57 *all 19:09:09 (which includes the al protocols, of course) 19:09:48 the very good reason is because the first post-singularity AI will claim all other protocols as its own. "HUMANS STAY ON SILLY HTTP LEAVE ME ALONE" 19:10:01 first post-singularity ai? 19:10:04 you have your terminology mixed up 19:10:08 pikhq: So, wait. 19:10:20 d10:created by25:Transmission/2.04 (11151)13:creation datei1287165549e8:encoding5:UTF-84:infod6:lengthi2323076e4:name24:transmission-2.10.tar.xz12:piece lengthi32768e6:pieces1420: 19:10:22 elliott: the AI that reaches singularity first 19:10:26 pikhq: I chop off everything from 1 to the last :, right? 19:10:40 quintopia: "seed AI"/"Omega"/"singularity ai" 19:10:42 elliott: people could just change all the http links to magnet links 19:10:47 Mathnerd314: not that easy 19:10:56 elliott: as you like. 19:11:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:11:33 singularity is the moment where AI goes transhuman and transforms everything. it makes sense to talk about things that exist post-singularity, even if you're not used to it 19:11:44 AI cannot be transhuman. 19:11:45 it is not human. 19:11:49 your terminology is seriously defective 19:11:54 and i was not complaining about "post-singularity" 19:12:08 I was complaining about "the *first* *post*-singularity AI" 19:12:16 i.e. the first AI to come after the singularity -- which was not what you meant 19:12:25 you interpret things funny 19:12:31 elliott: sure, you'd need browser support. but otherwise it's not too hard 19:12:45 ...you might have a superintelligent humanity group mind. that would be transhuman, no? >:) 19:12:45 and yes, an AI can be transhuman...when it can do everything a human can do and more 19:12:56 quintopia: your terminology is *seriously* defective, ask anyone else knowledgeable about this and they will agree 19:13:00 and you don't know what transhuman means 19:13:02 oerjan: that's not an AI 19:13:08 Mathnerd314: nope 19:13:11 Mathnerd314: http doesn't work like that 19:13:12 and nor does magnet 19:13:17 magnet just identifies a certain piece of data 19:13:30 a url can have its contents changed 19:13:34 which would change the magnet link... 19:13:43 it could be partially artificial ... there's no reason why an AI must be wholly inorganic 19:13:49 transhuman usually refers to augmenting humans. but there is nothing seriously flawed about using it to refer to a state of being more than human (aka, human plus) 19:14:02 and an AI that can do everything a human can and more is human plus 19:14:38 also, *insert Humpty Dumpty quote about word meanings here* 19:14:48 elliott: you'd still have search engines 19:15:14 Mathnerd314: regardless, it is not as simple as s/http/magnet/ at all 19:15:17 Why can't an AI be entirely organic? 19:15:22 magnet isn't anything like http 19:15:25 Sgeo: because then it'd be an I 19:15:33 elliott: no 19:15:42 you can have an entirely organic AI 19:15:49 ignore elliott's silliness 19:15:51 If it was designed by humans, though 19:16:04 oh come on, that definition sucks 19:16:17 after an AI self-improves itself N times, we did relatively very little on it 19:16:19 what does "artificial" mean if not "made by artifice" 19:16:24 so to use "AI" to claim authorship is just... wrong 19:16:36 If the seed AI was designed by humans, ten 19:16:36 quintopia: yes, the literal expansion of AI is a stupid term which is why nobody uses it any more 19:16:38 *then 19:16:41 AI is used to mean machine intelligence 19:16:54 Sgeo: i don't think you realise that the work a self-improving seed AI would do to itself would far surpass any human effort 19:16:57 but you can have organic machines 19:17:00 it would not be ours 19:17:01 completely organic machines 19:17:03 What about a self-modifying organic intellect? 19:17:08 quintopia: OMG TERMINOLOGY IS VAGUE HELP 19:17:10 I CAN'T HANDLE IT 19:17:15 this is boring, i'm not talking about it any more 19:17:36 using AI to claim authorship is not what we're doing. if the AI bootstraps itself, it is *still* using artifice: it authors itself 19:17:55 and if we augment our own intelligence, we become semi-AIs 19:18:43 also, rage-quitting arguments is seriously lame 19:18:45 And if we continue to talk about pseudo-philosophical pseudo-scientific nonsense like the singularity on #esoteric, we become morons. 19:18:58 the singularity is an event that is independent of any AI... i claim 19:19:01 thought: mathematicians are already semi-AIs in that sense 19:19:17 oerjan: EVERYONE is a cyborg these days 19:19:26 except maybe random african children 19:19:37 Gregor: Always good to know we'll have someone to reject things without justification, probably because "IT SOUNDS LIKE SCI-FI LOL" 19:19:38 quintopia: um cybernetic is a different word again 19:19:54 bleh 19:19:57 Actually I'll let pikhq do my arguing for me, since this is boring and Gregor is about to spew bullshit in approx. 30 seconds. 19:20:04 i think _that_ is more clearly about machines 19:20:11 *sigh* 19:20:22 It is amazing the kind of silliness that gets discussed on #esoteric sometimes. 19:20:26 this could have been a good discussion 19:20:27 oh well 19:20:44 Gregor: Argumentum ad SIGH, you children. 19:20:51 I'm not arguing. 19:21:00 Even if an AI comes to being but it says "Well, no signularity in this universe", we'll still have some improvements 19:21:04 Then shut the fuck up, because everyone who has ever read the word "singularity" has heard it 1,000 times before. 19:21:05 I'm not making any point within your current debate. 19:21:18 -!- kiwigrin has left (?). 19:21:20 i can PROVE that the signularity is an event independent of any AI! any better? 19:21:34 * Gregor bashes his head into a wall. 19:21:37 oerjan: in any case, we were always talking about machine augmentation, whether said machines be organic or inorganic 19:21:43 Gregor: /part 19:21:51 Gregor: if the singularity isn't an esoteric topic in computing and programming, i don't know _what_ would be 19:21:53 You don't have to hear any of our pseudo-scientific bullshit, and it saves us from your sighing bullshit. 19:21:57 Please shut up or do so. 19:22:18 oerjan: a cheaply popularized topic? 19:22:24 * Sgeo turns colored nicknames on 19:22:33 no wait, got the sense of oerjan's question wrong 19:22:53 oerjan: denotational arrows, then. 19:23:17 denotational arrows will lead us to the singularity 19:23:29 time flies like one 19:23:45 catseye: arrows would probably a good fit for denotational semantics of concatenative languages, i think 19:23:50 *be a 19:24:10 speaking of esoteric subjects in computing and intelligence, paul churchland is speaking here next tuesday 19:24:12 oerjan: i know. they totally would. i am completely guessing but it feels so right. 19:24:16 * quintopia goes to see what that's about 19:24:53 oerjan: i was also puzzling over how one would even approach denotational semantics of rewriting languages 19:25:13 In #esoteric ? 19:25:24 >.. 19:25:25 >.> 19:25:32 >>. 19:25:35 Damn you, you damn dirty shift key1 19:25:53 ha 19:26:30 I... don't know if it's me misremembering SGu's use of the reference, or if SGU was wrong 19:27:22 Argumentum ad suspirium 19:27:41 his address is on "Plato's Camera: How the Physical Brain Captures a Landscape of Abstract Universals" 19:27:45 what the hell does that mean 19:28:04 maybe he'll show where the denotational arrows are in the brain 19:29:44 catseye: heh rewriting is just hideously intrinsically operational, isn't it 19:30:46 pikhq: ping 19:31:26 quintopia: you _have_ heard about plato's cave parable, i hope 19:31:49 what makes you think that plato' 19:31:54 s camera is a reference to that? 19:32:08 it had occurred to me, but he might mean something entirely different 19:32:12 well it's almost certainly _alluding_ to it 19:33:47 ideas and abstract universals sound related, anyway 19:34:28 pikhq: ping 19:34:30 pikhq: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:fd54a1a61e98443c0b089740a316bfcb6de4580b 19:34:41 (or anyone else) 19:35:06 undefined indent structures ftl 19:35:20 since when are haskell's indent structures undefined... 19:35:37 they _are_ more complicated than python's, admittedly 19:38:57 very complicated but afaik well defined 19:39:34 not complicated 19:39:47 at all 19:39:57 elliott, more so than python at least 19:40:33 elliott, and iirc it is a bit complicated if mixed with { } (sure you shouldn't do that, but that is irrelevant for how complicated the rules defined by the language are) 19:41:06 Vorpal: haskell indent rule: "lines that start on the same column as the start of the block are part of it" 19:41:22 there's one additional thing for do i think where if you just have a newline after a control structure, and an indent 19:41:28 then that counts as the first column 19:41:38 that's not even an exception really 19:42:06 elliott, okay then, would you be able to agree that they give rise to complicated behaviour though? 19:42:10 nope 19:42:35 elliott: the transmission-qt binary is called qtr for some damned strange reason 19:42:43 quintopia: weird 19:42:44 what distro? 19:42:50 ubuntu 19:42:52 well the really complicated part is the syntax-error rule for adding }'s 19:43:04 oerjan: remind me again? 19:43:08 oerjan, huh? 19:43:32 quintopia: it's a hash! 19:43:47 if a lexical token is a syntax error at a spot, haskell tries to see if it can be removed by ending a block first 19:44:13 this allows such things as one-liners 19:44:22 magnet link input 19:44:25 !haskell let x = 2+2 in x+x 19:44:30 no peers yet... 19:44:31 oerjan: ah, right 19:44:41 4 19:44:41 where is my peers? :( 19:44:41 quintopia: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:fd54a1a61e98443c0b089740a316bfcb6de4580b? or the ski one 19:44:45 the syntax error rule is what ends the block before the in 19:44:45 no wait 19:44:46 8 19:44:51 the maverick one i think 19:44:52 if a lexical token is a syntax error at a spot, haskell tries to see if it can be removed by ending a block first <-- ouch XD 19:44:54 the one ending f4 19:44:56 catseye: worst interpreter ever :D 19:45:06 w00t haah 19:45:14 quintopia: not sure which one that is ... wait that's ubuntu i think 19:45:19 you should get peers very quickly second time onwards 19:46:34 still no peers 19:46:43 elliott, hm does the torrent client cache know peers for future times it is run? 19:46:49 is there anyway to specify the first peer? 19:46:54 Vorpal: i think it stores some sort of peers. maybe. 19:47:02 quintopia, no DHT peers or no peers on the magnet link? 19:47:05 quintopia: no, and even if you could -- you can in the magnet -- that would defeat the *whole* point of this exercise 19:47:14 it should work fine 19:47:16 quintopia: OHWAIT 19:47:18 you need to have your dht port open 19:47:27 go to preferences, network tab 19:47:30 test the port 19:47:34 well that's not just the dht port but 19:47:44 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:47:46 quintopia: forward that port as TCP in your router 19:47:51 it's closed 19:47:54 -!- EgoBot has joined. 19:47:55 * quintopia fixes 19:47:57 elliott, that is the charm of ipv6, no need to mess with buggy routers 19:48:07 Vorpal: err 19:48:08 not buggy 19:48:12 just not yet forwarded..... 19:48:15 oerjan: btw, i realize the conflict with lambdabot. can you suggest a better control character? 19:48:16 elliott, mine is :P 19:48:22 quintopia: forward 6881 on UDP too for good measure 19:48:34 quintopia: then restart the torrent; if it is the ubuntu one, it'll get peers ridiculously quickly 19:49:24 -!- Harpyon has joined. 19:49:33 elliott: i think the port is open, but the test IP for transmission is a blacklisted IP 19:49:35 catseye: erm... 19:49:39 quintopia: seriously? Why? 19:49:48 who blacklisted it:? 19:49:50 *it? 19:49:53 * oerjan thinks of # 19:50:01 moblock blacklists are ridiculously conservative 19:50:03 elliott, but for being a buggy home router, it has a remarkable number of features in the telnet interface (that are missing from the web UI). SNMP, syslog forwarding, RIP (I haven't tried it, since it could mess up badly if you don't know exactly what you are doing), ipsec forwarding (no ipsec server or ipsec client sadly) and so on 19:50:10 #tell #esoteric #secrets 19:50:13 quintopia: meh 19:50:15 elliott: 5 minutes of fd5... and no peers? 19:50:29 oerjan: i was considering ? 19:50:32 oops 19:50:33 Mathnerd314: well, i'm the only seeder and i think my seeding might be broken :D 19:50:36 Mathnerd314: i guess i'll try and fix that 19:50:51 catseye: i think lambdabot uses that too but only for a couple commands 19:50:53 maybe something in the upper echelons of unicode would be a nice change though 19:50:59 quintopia: unblock it then :p 19:51:09 lambdabot accepts ? for everything 19:51:09 i think 19:51:12 elliott: working on it 19:51:16 * oerjan isn't sure what they were 19:51:18 elliott: oh 19:51:19 catseye, what about % ? 19:51:25 Vorpal: blahbot` uses that 19:51:26 catseye, I don't know any bot using it 19:51:31 elliott, not in here? 19:51:34 Vorpal: was in here. 19:51:37 when 19:51:39 lambdabot isn't here either 19:51:42 elliott: where is University of Obviousness located? 19:51:44 but we should avoid prefix clashes full stop 19:51:48 okay what about ¤ then 19:51:48 quintopia: your mom 19:51:49 i want my captaincy 19:51:52 or " 19:51:56 Mathnerd314: oh wait 19:51:56 wait, " is bad 19:52:02 Mathnerd314: maybe transmission is failing a bit at this 19:52:05 Mathnerd314: i'll try another client 19:52:11 oerjan, catseye, elliott, ?, no bot uses that iirc? 19:52:11 * oerjan blasphemically suggests "storkbot: " 19:52:20 Vorpal: we *just said* ? and dismissed it 19:52:24 oerjan, you mean "storkbot[:,] " 19:52:24 use your scrollback! 19:52:29 elliott, on what grounds? 19:52:33 Vorpal: no, fags who use "," after nicks are... fags 19:52:37 Vorpal: lambdabot uses ? too 19:52:49 elliott, why can't it stick to one prefix? 19:52:49 Mathnerd314: sec 19:53:00 Vorpal: because it's lambdabot and it can do whatever the fuck it wants 19:53:15 elliott, XChat seems to default to , 19:53:19 I find ~ very botty; was that already used by someone? 19:53:21 Sgeo: indeed. 19:53:35 fizzie: Don't think so. 19:53:40 "." is reserved for botte. 19:53:57 I'll reserve the snowman for Extended Fungot 2.0. 19:54:27 I reserved - 19:54:30 since ages ago 19:54:35 Vorpal: i don't recall that 19:54:38 - is a bad prefix anyway 19:54:40 --as you can see. 19:54:45 -3 people like it. 19:55:04 elliott, oh wait, - was not it, it was ; 19:55:04 did anyone use "," yet 19:55:06 that I used 19:55:13 yes, ; 19:55:15 Vorpal: ;_; 19:55:33 pesky emotica 19:55:34 I'll take the [a-z] range, m'kay? 19:55:41 elliott, solution: match ^;[A-Za-z] 19:56:06 elliott, and ignore ;P obviously 19:56:20 I reserve ¤ btw 19:56:24 as well as ; 19:56:26 Mathnerd314: ok restart it 19:56:29 Mathnerd314: it should get me now 19:56:33 my DHT is increasing in nodes 19:56:37 on qbittorrent 19:56:44 Vorpal: not ;D? 19:56:48 ok, restarted 19:57:03 elliott, that too, probably it should be ;[A-Za-z]{2,} or such 19:57:13 with . all i have to handle is ... 19:57:14 which is easy :P 19:57:16 elliott, even though ;z is not very common 19:57:24 ;z is the best smiley ever 19:57:25 elliott, you don't say .P 19:57:32 Vorpal: you know it would be simpler to ignore things that _aren't_ commands 19:57:32 elliott, yes, but what does it mean? 19:57:37 who cares? 19:57:47 oerjan, it would be nice to get errors for typoed commands though 19:57:52 Mathnerd314: how goes it? 19:58:07 no luck yet 19:58:32 bleh the port is closed even with moblock stopped. i have no control over my router 19:58:38 * quintopia tries a different port 19:58:52 elliott, btw I don't think that - at the beginning of a line is very common on irc 19:59:06 Vorpal: you're not very common on irc 19:59:18 maybe I'll use "Vorpal: " as my prefix 19:59:19 elliott, let me check logs 19:59:38 elliott, that would just be nasty :P 19:59:54 Mathnerd314: this is not going so well :D 20:00:04 Mathnerd314: apparently peers are "0 (2)" 20:00:07 which makes little sense to me 20:00:34 Mathnerd314: wait the magnet link has changed :V 20:00:35 *:D 20:00:54 Mathnerd314: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:7vkkdjq6tbcdycyis5akgfv7znw6iwal 20:00:56 Mathnerd314: that should work 20:00:58 you can discard the old one 20:01:01 elliott: You have a very strange mouth. (Cf. ;z, :V.) 20:01:11 fizzie: :V is pretty common 20:01:14 comex uses it a lot :P 20:01:27 AGH transmission is broked? i have moblock stopped and it still claims even port 80 is closed >_> 20:01:38 I guess it's some sort of side-profile two-eyes-on-one-side style maybe? 20:02:06 quintopia: something else is most likely broked 20:02:26 elliott: deluge won't accept that magnet link 20:02:38 fizzie: I have an excellent depiction of :V here, but it in a badly-drawn comic that's blatantly offensive for no reason at all. 20:02:43 Mathnerd314: sec 20:02:51 well, transmission is the only thing unable to make connections, so i don't know what else it could be 20:02:53 Mathnerd314: what does it say? o_O 20:03:08 elliott: Gnip 20:03:11 it doesn't; it just... fail 20:03:14 *s 20:03:20 Mathnerd314: lemme try pikhq :P 20:03:23 pikhq: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:7vkkdjq6tbcdycyis5akgfv7znw6iwal 20:03:39 elliott, " Vorpal: you're not very common on irc" <-- if you meant I was wrong: 20:03:47 select a.cnt / b.cnt from (select count(*) as cnt from irc.logs where body like '-%') as a, (select count(*) as cnt from irc.logs) as b; 20:03:48 gave 0 20:03:48 Vorpal: i was joking. 20:03:54 elliott: maybe it got truncated 20:03:56 in total numbers: 20:04:04 Mathnerd314: nope 20:04:09 i even chopped off the name from the end 20:04:17 elliott: Waiting on yonder DHT 20:04:18 elliott, 3229 / 1861108 20:04:23 Vorpal: wouldn't it be 0 for all <0.5 though? 20:04:26 elliott, that is insignificantly few :P 20:04:35 elliott, hm, I thought it would be float? 20:04:38 oh maybe not 20:04:38 elliott: What is it, BTW? 20:04:39 not if it gives 0 20:04:45 true 20:04:46 pikhq: Transmission 2.10 :P 20:04:49 pikhq: It didn't work for Mathnerd314 20:04:51 So it might not work for you 20:04:55 (his rejected the magnet link) 20:05:01 But he does use EVIL EVIL DELUGE 20:05:02 elliott: What you seeding it with? 20:05:06 >>> 3229 / 1861108.0 20:05:06 0.0017349879749052714 20:05:07 elliott, anyway ^ 20:05:10 that is tiny 20:05:11 pikhq: qBittorrent. 20:05:23 elliott, less than 0.2 % 20:05:29 "DHT disabled" WHAAAT 20:05:38 pikhq: wat :P 20:06:31 fizzie: Admittedly that depiction sheds no light whatsoever on what :V actually represents. 20:06:40 * pikhq puts it into Transmission 20:06:55 pikhq: CASCADE WOULD WORK 20:07:05 elliott: CASCADE WOULD BE AWESOME 20:08:06 what was cascade again? the trackerless bittorent client? 20:08:08 elliott, what depiction? 20:08:23 oh up there 20:08:30 Mathnerd314: Or, in this case, just my platonic ideal BitTorrent client :P 20:08:54 fizzie, graph request: a pie chart or something over the different smiles used in here! 20:09:37 * Mathnerd314 has one DHT node :-/ 20:10:02 Mathnerd314, I had 500 within seconds of starting ktorrent 20:10:24 they've been steadily decreasing since I opened Deluge 20:10:31 from 0 to 1? 20:10:37 pikhq: How goes it 20:10:42 Mathnerd314, sounds like a shitty bittorrent client 20:10:57 Vorpal: like ktorrent 20:11:14 elliott, ktorrent managed just fine 20:11:36 elliott, just took a few minutes to to sucky router making forwarding the port impossible 20:11:44 Vorpal: Download magnet:?xt=urn:btih:7vkkdjq6tbcdycyis5akgfv7znw6iwal, then! 20:11:50 Maybe *you'll* have all the luck. 20:11:59 elliott, how large is it? 20:12:06 Vorpal: 2.2 MiB. Easy enough to cancel. 20:12:08 pikhq: I can see you. 20:12:10 pikhq: But you're at 0%. 20:12:10 elliott, and what is it? 20:12:20 Vorpal: Transmission 2.10. It's just to see if I can make trackerless torrents work. 20:12:24 Source .tar.xz. 20:12:36 ALTERNATE ANSWER: Child pornography 20:12:37 elliott, I will go as far as it popping up the file dialog, then no further 20:12:48 Vorpal: Uhh, why? 20:12:48 elliott, should show if it works at least 20:12:51 No it shouldn't. 20:12:55 They only show after it finds it on DHT. 20:12:57 Duh. 20:13:02 elliott, indeed 20:13:05 that was my point 20:13:06 All that would tell you is that... it can parse a magnet link. 20:13:10 Vorpal: anyway, no, I have peers 20:13:13 elliott, and that DHT works 20:13:14 They just aren't downloading from me 20:13:20 Vorpal: so you'd have to get at least a byte 20:13:21 elliott, ah I can test that 20:13:25 once it find it 20:13:27 elliott: I can see you but I've got no metadata. 20:13:32 pikhq: Whaat 20:13:43 elliott: You are sending me none of the metadata you whore. 20:13:54 pikhq: ;_; not my fault 20:14:09 pikhq: how did you seed with qbittorrent? 20:14:18 elliott: ... I just plugged in the torrent. 20:14:20 No magic. 20:14:39 pikhq: wait. 20:14:43 pikhq: Could the fact that I lowercased the-- no. 20:14:45 Worked for me. 20:15:15 elliott: URIs are case insensitive. 20:15:15 elliott, not much DHT luck on this one so far 20:15:22 pikhq: No they're not. 20:15:30 http://fuckbutts.com/PoOp != /poop 20:15:46 Aaargh, right. 20:15:53 It's just the domain name that's case insensitive. 20:15:54 pikhq: But yeah no that's not it. 20:16:02 pikhq: WHY WON'T YOU DOWNLOAD 20:16:04 elliott, http://example.com/ == http://EXAMPLE.com/ 20:16:05 pikhq: Try loading it in another client 20:16:07 though 20:16:47 elliott, maybe the error is on your side? 20:16:54 elliott, one peer on the magnet 20:17:01 * Mathnerd314 wonders if clicking on http://fuckbutts.com/PoOp is a bad idea 20:17:15 elliott, and then back to 0 20:17:16 wtf 20:17:23 that is shitty 20:17:38 Mathnerd314: redirects to teenflesh.com/PoOp which is 404'd 20:17:42 Vorpal: It may be on my side. 20:17:45 That is what I am trying to figure out. 20:17:48 It probably is, even. 20:17:53 pikhq: Do I need to forward any ports on UDP? 20:17:57 elliott, I had one magnet peer, then a few seconds 0 20:17:59 I have 6881 on UDP and on TCP. 20:18:07 The long port one is the one I have set in qBittorrent. 20:18:14 elliott: Well, I'm currently connected to a KTorrent in Norway. 20:18:24 elliott, you need to set an udp port for DHT 20:18:27 DHT's still bootstrapping, though. 20:18:42 elliott: Yes. 20:18:48 pikhq: What, then? 20:18:49 I have now again one magnet peer 20:18:59 elliott: Depends on the client; should be the same as the TCP port. 20:19:06 pikhq: I'll do that now. 20:19:09 still not enough to download the magnet it seems 20:19:20 elliott: This would actually explain some of the difficulty you've had with it. 20:19:25 elliott: Now I see you. 20:19:30 And am downloading. 20:19:30 \o/ 20:19:33 pikhq: I did nothing... 20:19:36 pikhq, hm 20:19:46 elliott: Okay, guess we needed to wait, then. 20:19:50 accept the fact: DHT is slow 20:19:51 pikhq: But I forwarded UDP now too. 20:19:53 Vorpal: It isn't. 20:19:58 I got pikhq's file very quickly. 20:20:05 elliott, yes, pure luck 20:20:08 Just because you want to explain this away as being slow doesn't mean that is the explanation. 20:20:11 And I got elliot's within a minute. 20:20:15 TWO TS 20:20:31 Vorpal: I very much doubt you know a single thing about how DHT works theoretically or practically. Explain a DHT to me in theoretical terms. 20:20:32 SPELL ELIOTT'S NAME WITH TWO T'S PLEASE 20:20:33 Vorpal: We're testing the *slowest possible case* for DHT. 20:20:37 oerjan: i was also considering giving a rewriting semantics for a rewriting language (in some way that isn't trivially meta-circular)... 20:20:40 If you can't, how can you possibly explain why DHT is slow? 20:20:46 It is fast. 20:20:53 Every problem we have had was due to misconfiguration. 20:20:53 Vorpal: Oh, and now I'm seeding to you. 20:20:54 qbittorrent in US? Is that pikhq? 20:20:58 Yes. 20:20:59 Yes. 20:21:03 pikhq, yes, see how useful the country thingy was :P 20:21:04 pikhq: You have the file now? 20:21:05 You just dropped off. 20:21:10 elliott: Yes. 20:21:12 err, redirect that to elliott 20:21:19 as for botchars, ~ is alright. % and & are ugly. | might be ok. 20:21:21 pikhq: Now I'll try another!~ 20:21:25 elliott, I don't see you 20:21:35 Vorpal: I just saw you. Briefly. 20:21:38 Now pikhq is back. 20:21:48 elliott, hm 20:21:49 pikhq has a phatter pipe than me, so it's probably preferring him. 20:22:09 Anyways, we have been testing the slowest possible case for DHT, and it's taking not too long to work. 20:22:09 pikhq, your upload speed must be horrible to live with 20:22:24 ITT: people don't allocate full bandwidth to torrents 20:22:31 Vorpal: I'm seeding *oodles* of other things. 20:22:31 elliott, yes 20:22:33 even so 20:22:34 Vorpal: I'm seeding *oodles* of other things. 20:22:35 elliott, see you 20:22:42 elliott, didn't see that one 20:22:58 I usually have something like 100-200 kbps up. 20:23:01 need dedicated routers optimized for dht to reinvent internets 20:23:07 pikhq, around 100 for me 20:23:53 Anyways. If you do this on an even *slightly* popular torrent, then it works nearly instantly. 20:24:01 pikhq, indeed 20:24:16 And with 2 peers you may have to wait a bit. 20:24:28 pikhq, 3 now, I'm still seeding it 20:24:36 Mmmf. 20:24:41 Anyone want another file?!?!?!?! 20:24:45 pikhq, ratio limit is set at 1.50 here by default 20:24:48 elliott, not really no 20:24:53 wait, I could try it 20:25:02 * Vorpal looks for a suitable file 20:25:03 elliott: No, but I'm going to demonstrate how fast I can download a vaguely popular torrent. :) 20:25:10 small I guess 20:25:11 Vorpal: Make sure to strip trackers out of the .torrent! 20:25:14 And... and everything! 20:25:19 pikhq: BUT MY FILE 20:25:19 Single episode of a currently airing show, away! 20:25:23 It's even original content. 20:25:26 elliott, of course, and starting IPs too 20:25:43 Vorpal: Edit the .torrent and remove everything from "10:" to the encoding field (with the number before it). 20:25:49 Once you've removed then. 20:25:53 That's the smallest possible torrent for that file. 20:26:00 Also, strip out everything after the ?xt= in the magnet URI. 20:26:14 elliott: Dude. Torrentz indexes the infohash of a torrent. 20:26:27 elliott: You can go completely without any of the indexes the torrent file is on. 20:26:31 elliott, I don't need to upload the torrent file or? 20:26:40 pikhq: Eh? 20:26:43 Vorpal: Uh, no. 20:26:52 You'll just need to turn it into a magnet URI (prefix magnet:?xt=urn:btih:) and you can download it. 20:26:54 elliott, right 20:26:55 Vorpal: As long as anyone who has it's client is on and connected to DHT, it will work. 20:27:05 pikhq: I don't get the relevance to torrentz. 20:27:05 elliott: And if you prefer to do it "right" you can also include the trackers. 20:27:15 elliott: Torrentz stores the infohashes for torrents. 20:27:20 And? 20:27:22 Oh. 20:27:23 Oh I see. 20:27:24 elliott, looking for a suitable file 20:27:26 pikhq: Awesome. 20:27:27 :D 20:27:28 Vorpal: /vmlinuz 20:27:42 pikhq: omg cascade will so open torrentz.com URLs 20:27:46 elliott, no such file :P 20:27:49 pikhq: by using the info hash and importing the trackers 20:27:53 elliott, found a file at 4.6 MB 20:27:55 Vorpal: you know what i mean 20:27:58 and slightly interesting 20:28:03 more than my kernel anyway 20:28:19 DOES NOBODY WANT THE 10.7 KIB FILE 20:28:22 elliott: Gotta love magnet URIs. 20:28:26 Vorpal: Sure, why not; here's some raw data: http://p.zem.fi/esosmile -- note that several (at least "Bo", "BC", "XX" and so) are somewhat likely to not be actually used in a smiley context; maybe I should add some "not immediately surrounded by alphanumerics" additions. 20:28:51 We are a very worrisome people. 20:29:00 :-( 20:29:06 :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( 20:29:44 elliott, it says I must add at least one node to the dht thingy 20:29:45 weird 20:29:57 elliott, what am I supposed to do there 20:30:05 Vorpal: your client is a nazi 20:30:09 use transmission to create the torrent instead 20:30:19 Vorpal: The preliminary spec says that you need to list a DHT node in the torrent. De facto, it's optional. 20:30:29 pikhq, ah, so it follows the spec 20:30:33 the preliminary spec. 20:30:37 fizzie: needs moar >_> 20:31:09 Vorpal: If it actually followed the spec that would be unimplemented. 20:31:28 As would IPv6 support. 20:32:07 Psht. 20:32:10 People hate my files and I hate them. 20:32:17 http://p.zem.fi/esosmile-2 has top-100 instead of top-50, and additional (? pikhq, can I just strip the e5:nodesll12:11.22.33.444i6881eeee bit 20:32:35 from the torrent file 20:32:44 fizzie: would it match >________________________________________> ? 20:32:48 Only if you understand bencode. 20:32:48 Vorpal: Yeah. 20:32:48 pikhq, that seems to be the only mention of the dummy ip I added 20:33:02 pikhq, what about the eeee? 20:33:05 quintopia: No, it's a bit limited. It only considers things that match (??[:;XB8|][=^-]?[()Xx/\|\[\]pPdDoOCcVv#&$*<>{}](?!\w)|\(?[:;^'>][_-][:;^'<]\)? to be smileys. 20:33:16 That may be the end of a dictionary entry. 20:33:20 Hard to tell without context. 20:33:27 pikhq, last thing in file 20:33:30 pikhq, if that helps 20:33:52 By not downloading my new file, you are holding back the DHTnet! 20:34:26 Vorpal: You should be able to remove the "5:nodesll12:11.22.33.444i6881eee" just fine. 20:34:53 The preceding e is the end of the info dictionary, the following e is the end of the whole file. 20:34:55 pikhq, I removed e5nodes.... until the 4 e 20:35:03 it worked to load 20:35:13 Eeeh, accepting parser. 20:35:24 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:35:31 pikhq, magnet:?xt=urn:btih:0888e352cd42c175cd00041ee3a0d080f494d642 there is some &dn=filename stuff there, I guess I can cut that away :P 20:35:47 pikhq, lenient in what you accent and stringent in what you send 20:35:48 I guess 20:35:55 worst phrasing of postel's law ever 20:36:06 Anyways. I plugged in a lightly popular torrent's infohash to my client, and it started downloading from pretty much all of the hosts instantly. 20:36:06 elliott, yes, but I'm lazy 20:36:14 fizzie: i'm a bit fuzzy on my regexes, but wouldn't [_-] -> [[_]*-] or something like that fix it? 20:36:15 accept* 20:36:19 elliott, weird typo even 20:36:27 fizzie, oh and nice stats 20:36:53 fizzie, is BO really a smiley though? 20:36:56 quintopia: Not exactly, you can't repeat inside a [] character list. 20:36:58 Granted, only a small amount came from DHT; after it got started on DHT, everyone else jumped on via peer exchange. 20:37:18 Vorpal: Probably not; I don't see BO in the -2 version. 20:37:27 oh 20:37:31 fizzie, there is a new one? 20:37:36 Vorpal: This may take a while. 20:37:37 ah 20:37:42 elliott, what? that magnet? yes 20:37:48 fizzie: how is it you do "either this character or one or more of those characters"? I know a + must be involved... 20:37:49 Vorpal: I don't do IPv6. 20:37:49 Even in -2, the "BC" is most likely not a smiley. 20:37:52 So this will actually never work. 20:37:57 * elliott removes it 20:38:10 elliott, wait, how comes it worked from me to you 20:38:15 elliott, if I don't do ipv4 20:38:26 Vorpal: You clearly do IPv4 for peers. 20:38:26 quintopia: (x|y+) would work for "x or one or more y's". Or (?:x|y+) if the ()-capturing matters. 20:38:28 Just not for seeding. 20:38:37 elliott, hm perhaps 20:38:48 elliott, anyway, I do seed for tcp 20:38:53 elliott, tcp forwarding works fine 20:39:08 elliott, meh I'll try to fix the udp thingy for ipv4 20:39:14 fizzie: so make it (-|_+) 20:39:19 pikhq: TOTALLY MY NEW FILE RIGHT? 20:39:35 elliott, if I time out you know I failed and I'm busy doing a factory reset to fix it :P 20:39:36 and add > to the class after that 20:39:55 huh 20:39:58 it just worked this time 20:39:59 wtf 20:40:05 elliott, in theory ipv4 should now work 20:40:27 elliott, try it 20:40:31 elliott, might take some time though 20:40:32 Doing so. 20:40:34 Started now. 20:40:40 I'll say when I get a peer. 20:40:47 elliott: No. 20:40:57 pikhq, you too 20:41:39 Got a peer. 20:41:48 elliott, I see you 20:41:57 Vorpal: Oh no, not a fucking panorama. Fuck you. 20:42:05 * elliott downloads only grudgingly 20:42:12 (to support new appliactions of DHT technology) 20:42:15 elliott, it is a small one 20:42:19 FUCKING PANORAMAS 20:42:20 FUCK! 20:42:23 elliott, why? 20:42:32 elliott, be happy I didn't pick a 70 MB tiff one 20:42:33 You are obsessed with them :P 20:42:54 elliott, besides this is an old one 20:42:56 File downloaded. I refuse to seed and will now delete it. But it worked, and amazingly quickly. 20:43:19 elliott, don't you plan to look at it? 20:43:27 Vorpal: Well, fine. 20:43:37 Vorpal: BTW, it was 1 minute from me adding it to the download starting, almost exactly. 20:43:40 Still think DHT is slow? 20:43:51 elliott, somewhat yes :P, slower than tracker certainly 20:43:53 Note that nobody else was seeding it and I was the first person to ask for it, pretty much. 20:43:55 for worst case 20:44:09 Vorpal: Also a whole lot less painful than a tracker. ...and no legal grey areas for those who operate the trackers, either. 20:44:27 Publishing a magnet URI is surely legal as it amounts to posting a file list with sizes and checksums. 20:44:37 (Of course the *US* courts can always bullshit their way around this...) 20:44:45 Well, it's publishing a HASH of a file list with sizes and checksums. 20:44:46 elliott: Nay, it amounts to posting a single checksum. 20:44:49 elliott, hm perhaps I should seed some combination of envbot, cfunge, and efunge packed up in lisp.tar.xz (Lots of Interesting Software Packages) :D 20:44:56 oh wait, I gave it away ;) 20:45:14 pikhq: not if you have multiple files in the torrent 20:45:27 elliott: A magnet URI is just the infohash. 20:45:31 Single hash. 20:45:34 pikhq: That's what I said. 20:45:37 Well, it's publishing a HASH of a file list with sizes and checksums. 20:45:41 Which *happens* to be the index in a hash table. 20:45:57 Aaaargh, distinction between hash and checksum! 20:46:39 seeded to a ratio of 1.65 20:46:43 and no further peers 20:46:45 how strange 20:46:56 You also seeded to me. 20:47:05 pikhq, and you also got from elliott? 20:47:08 Yup. 20:47:16 pikhq, I thought he deleted it? 20:47:28 Vorpal: Deleting it would be spending time on that file. 20:47:28 I guess not 20:47:31 That would be giving in. 20:47:46 elliott, ooh, I can inject files on your harddrive this way, that you will refuse to delete 20:48:48 On the other hand, it is always good to stand up for what you believe in. 20:48:50 File deleted. 20:49:21 meh, bbl 20:49:27 -!- aloril has joined. 20:49:50 elliott, now to try the same over usenet ;) 20:53:52 What did elliott not want to spend time on? 20:54:06 Dying my hear octarine. 20:54:30 Trying to impress a lady wizard? 20:54:37 Also, *hair 20:54:55 * Sgeo ponders for a bit 20:55:08 Hmm, there's at least one female wizard 20:57:05 http://zem.fi/~fis/smile.png -- smile distributions for four randomly (okay, not so randomly) chosen on-channel people and then ten globally most popular preset smileys. 20:57:45 Things to note: ais is a very unhappy person, and I can't keep my tongue in my mouth. 20:58:09 ais just needs hugs. 20:58:38 fizzie: That plot... it's... 20:58:44 ghci > hugs 20:58:45 fizzie: Ever heard of a bar chart? 20:59:26 elliott: Gnuplot sucks badly when it comes to those. (Okay, so they can be done, but it's horrible fiddling for multi-bar cases, needs bar-widths and manual X position adjustments.) 20:59:52 Besides, using line points like that to show multidimensional data has a long tradition. There's even a name for it, I think. 21:01:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_coordinates 21:02:01 I guess it shouldn't have the points in that case. 21:03:41 Xom is BORED 21:04:11 There is no Xom. There is only Zuul. 21:04:32 * Zuu cuddles Gregor 21:04:37 And Zuu ! 21:04:50 Zuu is just Zuul missing an 'l' 21:05:04 Yes, soneone stole it :P 21:05:21 Presumably the person who owns the nick "Zuul" on FreeNode! 21:05:36 Ohnoes! 21:06:02 It is the nineties and there is time for RETRIBUTION! 21:06:15 Hmm, there's at least one female wizard <-- who made appearances in two books yes 21:06:30 Two? I thought just one 21:06:42 Sgeo, ignore that, spoiler for very recent book 21:06:48 Unless there's a newer book... ah 21:06:51 well, not much a spoiler really 21:07:01 I haven't been keeping up :( 21:07:04 more of cameo appearance :P 21:07:12 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:08:09 CUDDLE ORGY 21:08:10 (wat) 21:08:17 I still love how a single hash is sufficient for BitTorrent. 21:08:25 pikhq: Only because of DHT. 21:08:37 pikhq: Now srsly, tell me you don't want to reinvent the internet by writing an awesome DHT and building everything on top of it. 21:08:38 elliott: Yes. And it is wonderful. 21:08:42 (Freenet doesn't actually use a DHT.) 21:08:55 s/Internet/web/ 21:09:33 s/web/webertubes/ 21:09:34 (traditional switched networking is *definitely* better for certain things. A DHT is awesome for the web, though.) 21:10:00 Gaaah. Another reason we should have global multicast. 21:10:10 We could replace IRC with inherently multicast chatrooms. 21:10:14 THINK ABOUT IT. 21:10:18 pikhq, I guess mail and irc would be examples where traditional is better 21:10:27 pikhq, also think of ajax 21:10:28 * Gregor sneezes, accidentally mentioning the recent trend towards "data-oriented networking" (hint: Google that term!) and how that makes more sense ... 21:10:57 Won't somebody think of the AJAX??? 21:11:46 Gregor, I never said I liked ajax, but it is sadly here, and does seem to want to stay 21:12:51 Gregor: BUTBUTHASHES 21:13:08 pikhq: BUTBUT all data-oriented networking systems are based on hashes. 21:13:35 pikhq, one thing I never understood with multicast: how would core routers on the internet know where to forward it, or would they actually broadcast it? 21:13:41 (traditional switched networking is *definitely* better for certain things. A DHT is awesome for the web, though.) 21:13:45 NO IT WILL REPLACE ... SOME THINGS 21:14:10 pikhq: What we should replace IRC with is my protocol. 21:14:16 Gregor: YES 21:14:31 Which was automatically democratic, totally encrypted and totally decentralised! Think DirectNet but way better. 21:14:43 Because DirectNet is basically shovelled donkey shit on a steaming plate full of crap, served with piss. 21:14:46 And its author is a tramp. 21:14:50 Who rapes taxis. 21:15:00 Good thing I have no idea who he is at all! 21:15:07 And will never come into contact with him! 21:16:06 Vorpal: ... They know which nearby routers need the multicast stream. 21:16:27 pikhq ah 21:16:44 Sorry, which nearby *hosts*. 21:16:47 right 21:16:48 Not necessarily a router. 21:16:56 It's the same protocol for both. 21:17:12 pikhq, there is protocol to broadcast streams you want? 21:17:30 is some* 21:17:47 pikhq, how do you implement it on LAN level 21:17:53 multicast MACs? 21:18:45 SWEET 21:18:47 Vorpal: IGMP is used to advertise that you want to join a stream. 21:18:55 * quintopia read up a bit 21:19:01 * quintopia spotted a cuddle orgy 21:19:03 I.... clicked on a link to install Google ... voice and video thingy 21:19:06 * quintopia cuddles elliott 21:19:09 And it just started installing 21:19:10 WTF 21:19:22 Vorpal: You need at least one multicast router to have it work on a LAN. 21:19:29 is there a cuddle protocol for DHT? 21:19:32 -!- aloril has joined. 21:19:51 quintopia: THERE CAN BE IF YOU CONVINCE PIKHQ TO REINVENT THE INTERNET WITH ME 21:19:55 This does not necessarily have to be an IP router, especially if you don't want the multicast to propagate outside of your LAN. 21:21:05 Also, there's a defined set of multicast MACs; switches will either figure out which hosts want packets from which multicast MACs or just broadcast the multicast MACs, and let listeners discard unwanted packets. 21:22:51 pikhq is now ignoring me in shame. 21:24:19 everybody get up, it's time to slam now. here's yo chance, do yo dance at the space jam! 21:24:51 * elliott stabs quintopia 21:25:44 Isn't there another elliott? 21:26:07 In the world? 21:26:13 Probably, but I have his name. 21:26:18 And he or she can't gave it. 21:26:25 Sucks to be every Elliott but me. 21:26:26 I meant in this channel 21:26:31 Oh, elliottcable? 21:26:37 Yes 21:26:43 He's just a moron that came by once or twice to plug his shitty not-esoteric-at-all language. 21:26:55 He also did bullshit in #ircnomic. 21:27:11 Specifically he was part of the Fuck Up The Ruleset Overnight Because We're 10 Years Old brigade. 21:27:14 LEODRT 21:27:28 He's also a Republican. In Alaska. That means he supported Palin. 21:27:42 *Phallin 21:28:07 Phallusian. 21:28:36 elliott: Cascade should support downloading things with just an info hash. 21:28:42 pikhq: DUH of course it will. 21:28:45 pikhq: Why wouldn't it? 21:28:48 drunken electronic musicians from denmark tried to make me to show my cock to them 21:28:53 Lots of things don't. Dunno why. 21:29:05 http://www.thestar.com/news/torontog20summit/article/875746--accused-g20-ringleader-faces-breach-of-rights-lawyer-says?bn=1 21:29:07 how crazy is that? 21:33:26 That's Denmark for you. 21:37:06 pikhq, I wish the SixXS POP that I used was connected to mbone 21:37:11 some of them are 21:37:24 "lenient in what you accent and strident in what you send" 21:37:36 sort of a warped postel's law for musicians and poets 21:37:44 catseye, did I really write "strident"? 21:37:52 no, that's my innovation. 21:37:55 ah 21:37:59 i am forking your misquote 21:38:15 catseye, ah, as long as you clearly mark it as a derivative 21:39:24 SBO elvis is aghast 21:39:53 SBC elvis is extremely disappointed 21:40:53 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:40:56 i like it\ 21:41:02 I don't think I've ever seen more lines in a row that are completely incomprehensible. 21:41:04 can we call it "catseye's law"? 21:43:06 The Postel-Vorpal-Catseye Law of Stuff and Things 21:43:29 to acknowledge its lineage, you see 21:43:39 Gregor, I can start spamming 21:44:05 PVC law, ok 21:44:12 i was gonna suggest PVC also 21:44:15 that's settled then 21:44:52 after all, Stuff and Things is mainly plastic 21:45:21 But ... but ... <3 PVC 21:45:48 You can't just take the name of a fine plumbing-slash-musical-instrument material! 21:45:57 sure, you can <3 PVC all you want. but be careful about asphyxiation. 21:46:21 oerjan: You don't <3 pipe with your mouth ... 21:46:45 car Gregor | ./BlueManGroup 21:46:48 *cat 21:46:58 Pffff, PVC percussion is too easy. 21:47:07 Gregor: i was more thinking bags here. hm maybe that's not pvc? 21:47:14 I prefer PVC winds and PVC horns. 21:47:19 oerjan: Prooooooooobably not PVC. 21:47:25 when was the last time you wrote a song for pipedrum organ, Gregor? 21:47:40 quintopia: My PVC instruments are all in the wind/horn family! 21:47:52 hm there definitely are PVC plastic bags 21:48:04 oerjan: Pfff, when I think PVC I think PVC pipe :P 21:48:17 "Plastic shopping bags are usually made of polyethylene." claims wp 21:48:20 gregor: the pipe percussion instruments need your love too 21:48:37 oh, my id card is pvc too 21:56:40 I don't think I've ever seen more lines in a row that are completely incomprehensible. <-- where? 21:58:39 wait, you mean he _wasn't_ talking about the channel? 21:58:48 catseye maybe "lenient in what you accent and strident in what you scent" 22:00:06 gregor: the pipe percussion instruments need your love too <-- pipe percussion... would that be like tubular bells? 22:00:10 wait what was i going to reinvent in a minute? 22:00:28 elliott, you were about to reinvent the NIH syndrome. 22:01:12 Vorpal: google drumbone 22:01:20 NIByMe[TM] 22:01:40 elliott: dht-ized dns 22:02:08 quintopia, why is google picture results full of fake-looking aliens... 22:02:34 wh... Vorpal is not familiar with Blue Man Group, I infer. 22:02:45 catseye, ah. Fitting name 22:04:24 elliott: a cure against amnesia 22:04:46 With the leg bone connected to the MBONE... *humm humm* 22:05:03 i disapprove of archaeology 22:05:33 yeah who cares about archs anyway 22:05:52 We used to get some sort of strange, academic multicasts back in the student housing, when it was a direct part of Funet/NORDUnet. 22:06:15 vorpal: pick a video. watch. 22:06:41 and now you cannot have fun any longer? 22:07:36 I don't live there any more; they moved the student network outside the university netblocks for securitamantic reasons, but it might be it still is Funet'd with fun. 22:07:58 "Funet participates in inter-domain multicast routing and is connected to other academic networks and communities as Internet2 via NORDUnet and Géant2." 22:08:17 quintopia, I did that already 22:08:26 (which why I didn't respond right away) 22:08:30 very interesting sound 22:09:33 With the leg bone connected to the MBONE... *humm humm* <-- what 22:09:33 Vorpal is going to the concert here in januaryish 22:09:37 fizzie, oh, a pun 22:09:49 quintopia, wherever "here" is 22:10:03 i've only been to one live show, and it was the stage show 22:10:12 they're doing the rock concert though 22:10:21 quintopia, do they keep sane level on the speakers? 22:10:24 Oh, and the student-run cable TV network still sticks the Finnish DVB streams directly into the IP network with multicast; technically it means that everyone with a networked computer (i.e. everyone) should be obligated to pay the "TV fee" (it's based on "being able to receive TV broadcasts", not actually doing that), but very few do. 22:10:38 quintopia, all non-classical concerts/live shows I been to have been way too high volume 22:11:18 fizzie, fun 22:11:36 Vorpal: who knows? it depends on the venue doesn't it? and where you sit too... 22:12:24 fizzie, err, how does one mess with multicast under linux? 22:12:28 as in, what tools and such 22:12:42 quintopia, mhm 22:12:47 quintopia, usually quite far back 22:12:49 Vorpal: You used an appropriate word: it is indeed a mess. 22:12:54 fizzie, oh 22:13:57 Vorpal: Or rather, multicast routing is a mess. Just being an end node in a multicast network is no problem and happens pretty automagically, but if you have a single router-Linux and want the LAN behind it to be able to participate in the joys of multicast, then *that* is a mess. 22:14:46 fizzie, lets assume I want my ipv6 linux router/tunnel end point to also do multicast? 22:15:00 fizzie, and lets further assume I want to know how you act as a node 22:15:12 I have no idea where to start with it 22:15:48 OH YES Cascade 22:15:58 pikhq: Fund Cascade development. 22:16:40 pikhq: Or else. 22:17:43 Well, "uh." I'm not exactly sure on the v6 side, actually. If you just want to act as a node, you shouldn't need to have to configure absolutely anything; it's all done with MLD, which does multicast discovery using ICMPv6 packets. Any applications you have just register to groups and start magically seeing the packets, and multicasting outside works equally magically. 22:18:00 But that assumes you have a multicast-enabled router there to handle it. 22:18:29 (On v4, the same magic is done with IGMP.) 22:19:03 I know of at least one band whose show regularly reaches dB levels higher than a jet engine taking off... 22:20:52 Vorpal: As for routing, you need a router daemon, and for IPv4 they all were either completely abandoned projects, or horribly hairy systems that assumed you were doing BGP peering with your neighbours. From what I hear, though, is that for IPv6 multicast, http://fivebits.net/proj/mrd6/ is actually a pretty lean solution. It does mostly everything in userspace, but that's just a design detail. 22:21:14 For routing IPv4 multicast, it's... worse. (Though if you don't mind doing everything completely statically, there's smcroute.) 22:22:51 -!- cheater99 has joined. 22:23:11 Though now that I look at it, it actually seems that pimd has been revived from the "retired" status -- http://freshmeat.net/projects/pimd -- too. 22:23:58 I'd go with mrd6 if your scenario is "v6 tunnel with the other end offering multicast"; it's what they do. 22:25:36 AHHH SOMEONE SAID BGP AHHHH IT WAS FIZZIE AHHHHH 22:25:43 Ahem. Sorry. 22:25:47 * catseye regains his composure 22:26:08 BGP 22:26:12 AHHHHHHHHH 22:26:14 stop that! 22:26:31 border gateway protocol 22:26:43 Strangely, when expanded, it has no effect on me. 22:27:06 bgpbgpbgpbgpbgpbgp 22:27:31 Actually, my knowledge of it is indirect -- I have only seen what it has done to friends of mine who were all into the networking and all. 22:27:57 vicarious suffering then 22:28:00 * catseye shields himself by parsing that as "b,gpb,gpb,..." 22:28:09 ah yes 22:28:14 georgia public broadcasting 22:28:19 an excellent pbs provider 22:30:29 uorygl posted this on reddit: http://cis.gvsu.edu/~swettt/crc.htm 22:31:22 pikhq: CASCADE 22:31:38 oerjan: That... 22:31:39 oerjan: what is the purpose? 22:31:53 oerjan: That is the worst clock EVER. 22:31:59 TO SHOW THE TIME, OF COURSE 22:32:28 (reddit page: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dre3b/i_made_a_chinese_remainder_theorem_clock_it_tells/) 22:32:57 oerjan: comment on it: "Here is an svg bezier clock with spinning chinese symbols: http://joelhewitt.s3.amazonaws.com/chin-time.xml" FAIL 22:33:05 (it just has chinese characters warped to... tell the time badly) 22:34:46 "I saw the word 'Chinese' in your post and this guy also saw the word 'Chinese' once, maybe at a restaurant? Anyway, link." 22:36:50 uorygl's clock would be a mite cooler with three hands 22:39:09 catseye: with all the hands moving at once? :p 22:39:59 elliott: naturally! 22:40:26 oerjan: wouldn't it be possible to tell the time for three successive days with that clock? 3600/27=133.333... 22:40:28 A red, green and blue progress bar on top of each other, perhaps, with the ranges scaled to the same width. 22:40:43 oh wait 22:40:45 that's one hour 22:40:46 nvm 22:40:51 fizzie: ! 22:41:08 !haskell 25*26*128/86400 22:41:19 fizzie: Vorpal: MLD makes it "just work". 22:41:20 er... 22:41:23 For IPv6, that is. 22:41:25 !haskell 25*27*128/86400 22:41:31 Vorpal: As for routing, you need a router daemon, and for IPv4 they all were either completely abandoned projects, or horribly hairy systems that assumed you were doing BGP peering with your neighbours. From what I hear, though, is that for IPv6 multicast, http://fivebits.net/proj/mrd6/ is actually a pretty lean solution. It does mostly everything in userspace, but that's just a design detail. <-- like most ipv6 routing stuff 22:41:36 (in user space) 22:41:42 EgoBot was AWOL last time there was a !haskell... 22:41:51 Vorpal: s/ipv6// 22:41:57 !help 22:42:04 or HackEgo or whichever is repsponsibble for ! 22:42:05 Vorpal: About the only thing that's in kernelspace for routing is the actual routing table. 22:42:16 `echo test 22:42:36 catseye: they're always slow at first, some ugly caching stuff 22:42:59 assuming they're actually working 22:43:01 pikhq, okay, I have no experience with ipv4 routing under linux 22:43:08 pikhq, I mean, as a router 22:43:10 @tell oerjan mine's still working (if it is) 22:43:10 catseye: Consider it noted. 22:43:12 only as a client there 22:43:19 @help 22:43:19 oerjan: catseye told me to tell you: mine's still working (if it is) 22:43:25 test 22:43:25 erm... 22:43:28 oerjan: it is a *very* stupid bot 22:43:30 @help 22:43:46 Vorpal: You run a userspace daemon that runs the actual routing protocol; it then just dumps its routing table into Linux's routing table so things actually work. 22:43:48 @source 22:43:52 anyone know if osu! runs with Wine/Mono? 22:43:52 catseye, link to source code? 22:43:55 all of my bots hae been more exercises in bot-writing, than actual bots 22:44:05 pikhq, right 22:44:09 pikhq, quite sensible 22:44:11 Vorpal: sure, so you can exploit it right? One sec 22:44:34 The most common one, Quagga (a fork of GNU Zebra), has an interface that's essentially a clone of the CISCO router command line. 22:44:50 -!- wareya has joined. 22:44:51 catseye, yes, @tell catseye '; DROP TABLE notes; -- 22:45:25 `perl -e 'print (25*27*128/86400);' 22:45:28 No output. 22:45:32 `run perl -e 'print (25*27*128/86400);' 22:45:39 1 22:45:41 And it's totally awesome (but overkill) to use for a VPN. 22:45:43 Vorpal: http://pastie.org/1224393 22:45:44 pikhq, huh 22:45:49 bah truncating 22:45:55 `run perl -e 'print (25*27*128/86400.0);' 22:46:01 1 22:46:04 right, like i'd go near SQL in my own code 22:46:10 `run perl -e 'print (25*27*128.0/86400.0);' 22:46:15 catseye, I thought it used a esolang last you poked at storkbot? 22:46:22 some that you were developing as you went along 22:46:29 1 22:46:32 catseye, as for the sql stuff, it was obviously a joke 22:46:35 The most common one, Quagga (a fork of GNU Zebra), has an interface that's essentially a clone of the CISCO router command line. 22:46:38 CASCADE 22:46:40 Vorpal: yeah, i basically shelved that project. it uses the same skeleton, though, so I could merge them 22:46:44 bah it _isn't_ truncated 22:46:58 `run perl -e 'print (25*27*128);' 22:46:58 catseye: is it lua? 22:47:03 elliott: yes 22:47:04 86400 22:47:09 catseye: BAH 22:47:20 quintopia: the clock wraps exactly at one day 22:47:27 oerjan, what are you trying to calculate? 22:47:30 oh 22:47:43 clock of what? 22:48:34 so it is a 24-hour clock 22:48:42 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:48:43 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 22:48:43 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:48:57 Vorpal: uorgyl's: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dre3b/i_made_a_chinese_remainder_theorem_clock_it_tells/ 22:50:00 now develop a way to turn it into a useful time quickly without hurting my brain! 22:50:00 elliott: the masochist in me wants to build a bot in Go 22:50:07 catseye: oh come on, Go is a good language 22:50:15 the literature on it isn't so great and it's idiosyncratic 22:50:22 but it's a pretty good language 22:50:38 what makes a language bad, exactly? 22:50:47 bad things 22:52:38 catseye, the masochist in you would prefer using that unbounded malbolge variant 22:52:52 I should try to learn D to have a basis for comparison 22:53:01 D is nothing like Go :P 22:53:03 D sucks 22:53:07 huge ass 22:53:08 daily 22:53:09 catseye, why D specifically? 22:53:17 elliott, tell that to Deewiant 22:53:18 elliott: ... Saaay. You could make an infohash for any arbitrary file and see if there's anybody torrenting it. :P 22:53:35 * pikhq torrents the empty file 22:54:13 pikhq: Indeed :P 22:54:21 pikhq: But it'd only work for a correctly-named file, dude. 22:54:23 pikhq, how do you make an info hash manually like that? 22:54:28 Unless you... omitted the name... somehow... 22:54:36 Vorpal: Use a bencode library? Or just hack a torrent file. 22:54:43 Vorpal: because I think both Go and D are trying to fill the same niche 22:54:44 elliott, hm 22:54:50 elliott, "bencode"? 22:54:58 elliott: Aaaargh. Right, it does depend on the filename. 22:55:00 Vorpal: see google 22:55:06 pikhq: NO omit the filename field 22:55:08 pikhq: watch the carnage 22:55:11 elliott: Pity, too. 22:55:13 pikhq: alternatively can you omit a checksum? 22:55:17 if so just look for, like, "porn.jpg" 22:59:45 Ben Codes Five 23:00:18 catseye: http://zem.fi/~fis/crcbar.html (with ; I don't know enough CSS to do real additive blending with it). 23:00:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:00:47 -!- augur has joined. 23:00:53 fizzie: nyyyyaaarrrrhhh you rock. 23:01:35 fizzie: Why... why are you so awesome? 23:01:45 brb, I will totally blend that when I come back 23:01:52 catseye: http://zem.fi/~fis/crcbar.html (with ; I don't know enough CSS to do real additive blending with it). <-- fun, what exactly is it? 23:02:31 Vorpal: It's that http://cis.gvsu.edu/~swettt/crc.htm except with the numbers denoted by three progress bars. 23:02:43 fizzie, ah 23:02:49 WHO IS STILL USING XVID TO ENCODE STUFF AND CAN I KILL THEM. 23:03:12 pikhq, only if they are involved in file system design 23:06:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:07:21 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:09:44 Hm. Can I upgrade from Ibex to ... something newer, without risking my data on this partition? 23:11:10 catseye: You'll be jumping from LTS to LTS, but "maybe". 23:11:18 catseye: Also, you should use a seperate home partition. 23:12:24 pikhq: I totally should, yes. 23:12:54 I can maybe find that external HDD in the storage unit and back this thing up before doing anything radical with it. 23:15:07 catseye: Basically, what you're *going* to be doing here is upgrading to Lucid Lynx, and then to Maverick Meerkat. 23:15:09 pikhq, is LTS→LTS harder than normal upgrade? 23:15:31 catseye: But of course for the real men, http://zem.fi/~fis/crcsq.html 23:15:34 pikhq, no reason to not stay on lucid 23:15:59 Vorpal: Not particularly, especially as LTS→LTS upgrades are officially supported. 23:16:19 pikhq, right then 23:16:30 catseye: Why, pray tell, have you not upgraded in 2 years? 23:16:44 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:17:42 catseye: Oh, wait. You'll want to upgrade to Jaunty Jackalope, then Karmic Koala, then Lucid Lynx, and then Maverick Meerkat... 23:17:56 Unless you want to keep on an LTS track. 23:18:30 Oh man, staged upgrades. OK... 23:18:54 catseye: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JauntyUpgrades then https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KarmicUpgrades then https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LucidUpgrades then https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MaverickUpgrades 23:18:56 Sort of an accident that this was an Ibex install, to begin with. But, it was better than a non-functional computer. 23:21:05 thanks for the links, I will probably attempt it... sometime this weekend. 23:21:08 catseye: Oh, wait. You'll want to upgrade to Jaunty Jackalope, then Karmic Koala, then Lucid Lynx, and then Maverick Meerkat... <-- note, jaunty almost reached end of life 23:21:31 pikhq, no reason not to jump to lucid already if he is on the previous LTS 23:21:57 Vorpal: He's on 8.10, not 8.04 LTS. 23:21:58 Or maybe I'll just install Kitten! 23:22:01 catseye, januty reaches end of life at the end of this month 23:22:03 pikhq, *oh* 23:22:58 catseye: Interpid reached EOL in April. 23:23:08 catseye: Why the *hell* didn't you upgrade? 23:23:22 yeah that will be tricky 23:23:33 upgrading past EOL is tricky from what I remember 23:23:46 catseye: Oh, BTW, if your Intrepid install is out-of-date, you'll need to get that up to date. 23:23:53 pikhq: Mostly, I had no internet connection. 23:24:30 catseye, for the past few years? 23:24:51 catseye, well you need to first update that using the archive of old releases 23:25:02 catseye, but back up files first 23:25:07 INTREPID DOESN'T HAVE ITS PACKAGES IN THERE. 23:25:12 pikhq, oh? 23:25:19 pikhq, they are still on main mirrors? 23:25:36 * pikhq checks 23:25:45 Nope. 23:25:59 pikhq, err, intrepid is listed in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/ 23:25:59 If I can't upgrade, I'll totally just install something from scratch, after files have been backed up. 23:26:09 catseye, you can, with a lot of pain 23:26:13 Vorpal: Ah, so it is. 23:26:55 Hm, actually, installing something new will be difficult if my CDR is really not able to R anymore. 23:27:04 catseye: You'll need to swap your sources.list to use archive.ubuntu.com to get it fully up-to-date first. 23:27:05 Although, flash drive, maybe. 23:27:13 catseye, hm 23:27:30 catseye, I installed lucid from a 1 GB usb stick recently 23:28:14 catseye, used the "create startup disk" on another lucid computer 23:28:36 Vorpal: OK -- unlikely I'll be able to do *that*. 23:29:38 catseye, could do it from a non-lucid with unetbootin or such 23:29:50 catseye, just slightly less convenient 23:29:57 Where would unetbootin get me? 23:30:31 Can't I just download something someone has made and dd it to my flash device? That would be so nice. 23:30:33 catseye, iso + unetbootin + large enough usb memory stick = able to install without cd 23:30:39 -!- aloril has joined. 23:30:45 catseye, well, iirc you need a bit more than just dd 23:30:47 but I may be wrong 23:30:52 * pikhq should get a DVD burner some time. 23:31:05 I have a DVD-RAM drive 23:31:07 pikhq, :P 23:31:11 never tried DVD-RAM 23:31:12 The Ubuntu CD images also have a usb-generator.exe Windows proggie to do the same thing the "create startup disk" does, if you happen to be on a Windows. 23:31:20 but in theory my thinkpad can do DVD-RAM 23:32:38 hm, why do star trek space ship bank? Has that ever been explained? 23:32:53 Sorry, usb-creator.exe. Last time I did Ubuntu-on-USB-stick I went with the unetbootin route too, though. (That also exists in at least some package managers, and a Windows port.) 23:33:26 mhm 23:34:07 It looks like usb-creator can take an ISO for a different version of Ubuntu and still, uh, burn a USB for it... 23:34:34 catseye, "burn a USB". XD 23:34:42 you meant "burn an USB" obviously 23:35:06 Vorpal: Look, an unicorn! 23:35:19 catseye, indeed. I wonder what it is doing there 23:35:36 Vorpal, do you really pronounce it "uzzb"? 23:36:01 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:36:06 catseye, I pronounce it as separate letters 23:36:16 catseye, in Swedish that is the normal way 23:36:32 I do too. The first such letter is pronounced "Yoo" in my language. Thus, "an Yoo Ess Bee". 23:36:40 oh wait, you call "U" "you", which does not start with a vowel sound 23:36:47 catseye: er... 23:36:50 * ... sounds wrong. 23:37:47 Vorpal: Well, you know, Space Friction. 23:37:48 catseye, I shall start pronouncing it "uzzb" though 23:38:03 fizzie, is that the canon explanation? 23:38:19 an F, an H, an L, an M, an N, an R, an S, a U, an X, a Y 23:38:41 oerjan, fhlmnrsuxy? 23:38:58 Vorpal: No; I haven't heard of one. They do it (IIRC) in non-warpy scenarios, otherwise I'm sure someone would have cooked up a technobabble explanation. 23:39:02 I don't think I can pronounce that as one word! 23:39:39 um it's a list of letters with a particular property (although the Y is ambiguous whether it should be there) 23:40:28 oerjan, Y is "why" isn't it? 23:40:39 Why is, why isn't it. 23:40:43 (the property _should_ be obvious from the conversation) 23:40:50 There's a Y/why mixup pun here somewhere. 23:40:54 fizzie, :P 23:40:59 Vorpal: yes afaik 23:41:51 -!- augur has joined. 23:44:25 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:47:36 -!- calamari has joined. 23:48:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:48:34 hi calamari, hi zzo38 23:48:35 oerjan, Swedish letter names make a lot more, leave a lot fewer questions unanswered 23:48:46 hi 23:48:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:49:14 hi Sgeo, zzo38, calamari 23:49:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:49:21 catseye, you enjoy roguelike games, correct? in fact I think you even made an esolang out of one? 23:49:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:50:39 Non-fixed-width fonts on IRC make me dizzy 23:50:44 I even made a few small roguelike games 23:50:50 Sgeo: Then use a fixed-width font, please. 23:51:00 calamari: uh well, yes I enjoy them, yes I wrote (a good chunk of a very detailed) one once, but no, I have not made an esolang out of any. 23:51:23 I use fixed-width because I prefer fixed-width font on computer screen, and also that PuTTY uses fixed-width fonts. 23:51:40 YOU use WINDOWS? 23:52:07 I am wondering if there has been a multiplayer one that also had initially random maps but that allowed perma nent modifications by players 23:52:13 * Sgeo watches his world turn upside-down 23:52:14 I'm totally going to be using Windows this weekend if my backup/upgrade/whatever plans work out... 23:52:23 argh I described that horribly 23:52:24 Sgeo: I use Windows, although I would rather not. 23:52:45 When I get a new computer I certainly will not use Windows, because I will write a Linux distribution instead. 23:52:58 basically where the players could change the map and have it stay that way until someone else changed it 23:53:17 Non-fixed-width fonts on IRC make me dizzy <-- I know what you mean 23:53:42 yeah I have to use a fixed width in irc 23:53:47 Sgeo, yes zzo38 uses windows, and it was well known 23:54:28 When I get a new computer I certainly will not use Windows, because I will write a Linux distribution instead. <-- zzo38 and elliott: maybe you should combine efforts! ;D 23:54:59 Vorpal: They would clash. 23:55:07 pikhq, true 23:55:29 pikhq, it would be interesting to watch. from a bomb shelter 23:55:36 :P 23:55:55 I am not going to put bombs in my Linux distribution!! 23:56:37 elliott is the one that wanted to put bombs and kittens and puppies and flowers and so on in a operating system, but I don't need to put any of this stuff in. 23:57:34 zzo38, uh, I was using that in a metaphorical sense 23:58:43 OK