< 1288224003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And? < 1288224006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, further bad language ideas: coqtalk < 1288224014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How do you know the syntax isn't flexible enough to do that with a library function? < 1288224015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm taking "any" too literally < 1288224031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, good point < 1288224033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do they need to know how while is implemented? < 1288224196 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It was not written by a native English speaker, so, yes, you are/ < 1288224221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I inadverdantly causing this channel to like a language? < 1288224227 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels like he has a superpower
< 1288224310 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Picture viewer and media player, which is designed for some GPS handhold device." -- < 1288224316 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not sure which one < 1288224333 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not entirely sure what the difference between = and <- is
< 1288224336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, we hate it < 1288224340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just you hate it for the wrong reasons < 1288224344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*we* hate it because it's not Apex < 1288224352 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has got on my (Other) List < 1288224356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, cpressey's dolphin-mermaid god-wife cunningly disguised as cpressey? < 1288224365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION meddling kid
< 1288224385 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more banana pepper ice cream floats before bedtime for you! < 1288224392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no examples of -> < 1288224415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: BUT DAD ;_; < 1288224446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"active mobile native persistent" < 1288224447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh < 1288224458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has some sort of builtin OO DB? < 1288224604 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what was the name of that minimal python editor in python, again? < 1288224667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: sec < 1288224685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://www.logarithmic.net/pfh/yaedit < 1288224688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why i don't use bookmarks < 1288224696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found that just by remembering "logarithmic.net" < 1288224704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool thanks < 1288224709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I tried it out and it's totally cool but it has deficiencies. < 1288224720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: For instance while it does the auto-save thing it has no VCS support making it a bit of a bitch. < 1288224725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Also no auto-indent. < 1288224731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Well, there's copy-indent-of-last-line. < 1288224733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's bullshit. < 1288224826 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i figured i wanted to try it, at least < 1288224854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What you need to use is leaden! < 1288224864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Which I am either going to code, or Kayak, right now! < 1288224886 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Kayak your web browser? The log was way too long for me to dig through < 1288224921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs a tutorial on Haskell zippers, other than that one with that greek gaming company
< 1288224935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes < 1288224941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It displays web pages! < 1288224989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kayak (Mozilla/5.0; Gecko; WebKit/531.2+; Safari/531.2+; Version/5.0) < 1288224995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And it has this unbelievable user agent! < 1288225003 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well < 1288225015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ??? < 1288225028 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need food. And after the Jeff Atwood-related Horrors experienced here, drink. Much drunk. < 1288225028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any good tutorial other than http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Zippers < 1288225031 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*drink < 1288225038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I looked at it, it gave me a headache < 1288225042 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the fruedieanness of that is inarguable < 1288225053 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*freudian-slipperyness < 1288225067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: zomg wait < 1288225069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: is it JUICY atwood bullshit < 1288225085 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, it is CREEPY atwood bullshit. < 1288225104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wait wait < 1288225106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: elaborate slightly < 1288225155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK: "I consider the Wumpus my power animal" -- Jeff Atwood < 1288225158 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE: GRAPHICAL WUMPUS < 1288225161 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1288225170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: old < 1288225172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: seen before < 1288225175 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to ME < 1288225247 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully he never had my respect in the first place < 1288225250 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nothing lost, there < 1288225557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: leaden or kayak, which should I work on < 1288225562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kayak already has some code done :p < 1288225566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(leaden did but it is lost) < 1288225699 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288225837 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: vagrant! rewrite it in Fuxi! < 1288225849 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so forth, and so on. < 1288225857 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were looking for anything like a serious opinion, < 1288225865 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would get more use out of leaden, probably. < 1288225869 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for now, I food. < 1288225874 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey|away < 1288225875 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288225902 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288226916 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I preordered the Barbie Computer Engineer doll, and every month Mattel emails me to tell me it's still not available. ... in spite of the fact that the site said it wouldn't be available 'til late November ANYWAY. Thanks for the utterly redundant emails there, Mattel. < 1288226932 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool? < 1288226938 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sasha < 1288226941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: whoa, wasn't it decided on like last year? < 1288226954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How hard is it to create barbies :P < 1288226962 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They create them for the "holiday season" < 1288226975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all those girls BEGGING for a computer engineer doll < 1288226978 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They only start selling them once they become Christmas gifts :P < 1288226980 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1288226986 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The COOL girls. < 1288226994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: or more likely unwashed middle-age men who will do HORRIBLE HORRIBLE THINGS to them < 1288227002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION worst mental vision ever aaargh
< 1288227015 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible, pointy things. < 1288227019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coming soon to a basement near you: "...sheesh, that's not even *vaguely* anatomically correct! :(" < 1288227025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...oh well *fap fap fap fap fap*" < 1288227032 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Chachi < 1288227585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still amazes me that a Congress-critter wanted to enact a law that would allow for the removal of citizenship of "terrorists". < 1288227622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember who the moron was, but still, how fucking ignorant of how anything works do you have to be to make that seem like a good idea? < 1288227788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:07:44 elliott for the logs, other people who are interested: there's a currenty hilarious proggit submission http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dwtou/stack_overflow_how_do_i_leave_my_site_vulnerable/ about an XSS vulnerability in Stack Overflow; one of the Stack Overflow admins posted to say they'd corrected it (and were annoyed at the way it was disclosed), and someone replied to him using Jeff Atwood's account saying < 1288227789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:07:46 "I've tried being white hat with an SO employee before. All he did was change his password on one site but not any others." < 1288227789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1288227795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see "Jeff"'s reply < 1288227799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I saw the other one and commented on it here < 1288227801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original post < 1288227811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And presumably he was completely ignorant of how statelessness works, as well. < 1288227821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, the deleted account's name was "codinghorror" < 1288227831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you become stateless, you get essentially automatic asylum status ANYWHERE.) < 1288227831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, it displays on Reddit is Fun < 1288227850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Yes, this does in fact imply that someone who lost US citizenship could claim asylum status *in the US*. < 1288227851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I was ignorant about that until just now < 1288227871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *That* is something not many people know. < 1288227898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:27:37 Well, I'd wager he's a very good programmer, but he's really a brilliant programming philosopher. < 1288227898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:27:58 He knows what programmers need to make them awesome at what they do. < 1288227899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Atwood*? < 1288227900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But quite true. International treaties on statelessness make it so. < 1288227900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1288227905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKIN' NUTS MAN < 1288227932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's not something states *want* people to know, I would guess. < 1288227952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. < 1288227959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, can you recommend me a good tutorial on Haskell Zippers? < 1288227968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But surely a Congresscritter would be told about it pretty quickly. < 1288227975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Congress. Morons. < 1288227976 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, can you recommend Sgeo a good tutorial on Haskell zippers? < 1288227990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No. < 1288227995 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1288228021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just know it's some sort of fancy list-like datastructure. ... Yeeeahh, that's not helpful at all. :) < 1288228144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something to do with keeping track of where you are in a datastructure, I think < 1288228176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: CAN YOU RECOMMEND ME A GOOD TUTORIAL ON *H*ASKELL *Z*IPPERS?!?!?!2 < 1288228258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My goodness that's amusing. Because the PRC and the ROC both claim each other, de jure each citizen of either country is citizen of both. < 1288228288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They both want defectors that much too. < 1288228305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: for some definition of de jure involving two different authorities at once < 1288228315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try the stupid Wikibooks thing again < 1288228322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only de jure position any entity can hold is that every citizen of either landmass/authority is the citizen of only one of them < 1288228331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can't recognise both of them at once < 1288228336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically, you could recognise one of them, I suppose < 1288228340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be silly < 1288228359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: De facto, citizens of the ROC are citizens of the PRC but not the other way around. < 1288228399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think the PRC has police working in the ROC. < 1288228400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ROC does. < 1288228404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore your definition of de facto sucks ass :P < 1288228407 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288228410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the ROC makes a distinction between the area occupied by the PRC and that occupied by the ROC. People from the area occuppied by the PRC do not have right of abode in the ROC. < 1288228419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's ROC law that makes it that way, not PRC law. < 1288228438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives up on reading/understanding that
< 1288228503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The ROC has a notion of citizenship that applies to people in the PRC as well. But all the usual rights of citizenship are instead bestowed upon "nationals". < 1288228555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is an entirely seperate classification that basically applies to people in the area governed by the ROC and their descendents. < 1288228566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nota Bene: this is not a public access server. Unless you are duly authorised, you are required to disconnect immediately. All your transactions are logged and monitored. If you disagree with this, disconnect immediately. In the interest of security, we reserve the right to scan your machine automatically and aggressively (including OS detection, port scanning and other intruder detection aids at our < 1288228566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discretion). If you do not concede to any of this, disconnect immediately." -- a *web page* < 1288228588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing I'd already disconnected by then! < 1288228650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand travel between the PRC, ROC, Hong Kong and Macau is determined by internal passports issued by the governments in question. SUCH A HEADACHE. < 1288228660 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott> *Atwood*? <-- I just assumed evincar is a master of deadpan. < 1288228678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I... hope so < 1288228718 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1288228777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: WebKit(Gtk)'s API is weiiird < 1288228793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: The icon-loaded signal gives you the URI to the favicon even if the favicon doesn't exist, not, say, an image or NULL < 1288228800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... totally not helpful WebKit(Gtk) < 1288228808 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah! i believe it! i had to dig through it(Cocoa) a bit today < 1288228823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If I was to forceably normalize a site to use just one font, what would be the least offensive, most redistributable font I could use? This being if I were to even lose sans/serif/mono information for instance. < 1288228831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh the webkitgtk api in general is nice and simple (something cocoa is allergic to) < 1288228838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try not to lose such information :P < 1288228851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But uh *thinks* < 1288228866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we'll step up from there on keeping sans and serif :P < 1288228880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (To imagine what kind of question you just posed me, imagine someone asking "What computer should I buy and what language should I program in on it?" and when asked for further detail can't give any) < 1288228888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Or rather, gives the detail "for ALL USES") < 1288228900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's easier to move from the ROC to the PRC than vice versa... Weird. < 1288228910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I assume it has to be Free as in Fucking, not just, say, free-to-redistribute-but-totally-proprietary-licensed? < 1288228910 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, the great thing about this use (WebSplat, duh) is that it kinda doesn't matter how readable it is. They're just platforms. < 1288228919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, but metrics :P < 1288228920 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ideally. < 1288228957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay -- Liberation (Sans|Serif|Mono) or Free(Sans|Serif|Mono). Liberation Sans' "J" is freaky so I'd go for the Free ones, but whatever. < 1288228968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Metric-compatibility with Microsoft fonts is the reason. < 1288228978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Shitty sites whose layout breaks without the right metrics will still function :P < 1288228996 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I didn't even know there were fonts that aimed for that level of compatibility. < 1288228997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Liberation Serif is classier than FreeSerif, but I'd go for the same family if you do distinguish. < 1288229010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The Nimbus fonts also do that but they're beyond hideous. < 1288229019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least when browsers render them) < 1288229049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, Free* = GPL3. < 1288229055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, uh, you may want to avoid them. As unto fire. < 1288229081 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And iff, due to the fact that it's not always clear what serifness is appropriate, I were to lose that information in SOME cases, should I prefer sans or serif? Keeping in mind again that they're platforms :P < 1288229081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Liberation is GPL(2, presumably) with font embedding exception. < 1288229114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, browsers default to serif. So there's always that. But >50% sites that do set a font set it to sans, I would imagine. (Although not >50% of well-designed websites.) < 1288229126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So it's totally your call; I'd test to see which is less ugly. < 1288229137 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am incapable of making that distinction. < 1288229147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Give me alpha versions and I'll tell you :P < 1288229151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If the Serif or Sans of whichever family you choose is less ugly than the other, that'd probably be the one to go for. < 1288229154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has the font default to sans...
< 1288229169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nobody else does. < 1288229170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288229187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll use serif fonts the day I get a 600dpi monitor. < 1288229193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaddup < 1288229201 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably goin' with Liberation, and defaulting to sans simply because I feel a (slightly) simpler font would distract less, since you're not supposed to be reading it :P < 1288229205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You already *have* a higher PPI monitor than you think due to subpixel rendering. < 1288229211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/FreeSansDemonstration.png Stunning grammar here from the FreeSans people < 1288229215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a font, in mixed case isn't < 1288229216 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I just have to normalize on window width and things SHOULD be consistent >_> < 1288229217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a font VERY MADE BOLD < 1288229222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 800x600 plz < 1288229228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or slightly wider/taller but not 1024x768 < 1288229230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Insufficiently! < 1288229233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of us have screens that are x768 >_> < 1288229244 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Height doesn't matter much. Why not 1024? < 1288229257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, sure, 1024 would be fine. < 1288229265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 1024x700? < 1288229289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just tried that with Kayak and it's a nice size although dangerously close to my taskbar. < 1288229292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I couldn't have two panels like that.) < 1288229316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 1024x650 is also good although very widescreen. < 1288229333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 1024x675 strangely seems less widescreen. < 1288229339 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Err, lemme be more clear: My hope is to lie to the renderer and tell WebSplat the truth. So you could use any size, it'll just look more and more weird the farther your actual window size is from the lied one. < 1288229348 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It would even work with a smaller size, you'll just scroll more. < 1288229358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ah. < 1288229361 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the normalization, she is for the multiplayer, yes? < 1288229366 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Si. < 1288229366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then you won't specify a height at all. < 1288229371 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1288229372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or, well, the renderer has to report one. < 1288229380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So just say 600 :P < 1288229384 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right. < 1288229389 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It can be more-or-less arbitraryish. < 1288229389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But make the default window size 1024x675 :P < 1288229403 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about I make the default window size whatever you set it to :P < 1288229411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But you need a stock default! :P < 1288229423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, btw, pywebkitgtk is very nice. < 1288229429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *is* Python, and it *is* gtk, but... < 1288229436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ridiculously trivial to get something going. < 1288229440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a pywebkitqt? < 1288229446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not that I know of. < 1288229456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But get over it, you already have Gtk on your system :P < 1288229457 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm almost certain I'll have to hack at WebKit proper to lie in the ways I need to >_> < 1288229462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're a software hermit. < 1288229465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Perhaps not. < 1288229471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://webkitgtk.org/reference/index.html < 1288229480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (The same API applies to pywebkitgtk except you stick .s in :P) < 1288229481 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There ... is a webkitgtk.org ... < 1288229483 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: there's a pyqt w/webkit unless i'm mistaked < 1288229483 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*brain explodes* < 1288229489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The Gtk thing is actually a port < 1288229494 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohright, WebKit is officially part of Qt. < 1288229494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*port. < 1288229503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Right, but that involves writing C++. < 1288229503 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But ... GTK support is in WebKit trunk ... < 1288229505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nobody likes writing C++. < 1288229516 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've hacked at WebKit. A lot. :( < 1288229519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, well, this gives a GTK-flavoured API or something? < 1288229526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't know. It's what has a Python binding. < 1288229537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And you can just put it in a GtkScrolledWindow and everything works :P < 1288229539 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just blathering at this point :P < 1288229568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://sprunge.us/SFHj pywebkitgtk example < 1288229575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Including my code to figure out how favicon notification works!) < 1288229582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEEL THE GUIDO-ESQUE SIMPLICITY < 1288229593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, I'd steal my user agent-setting code. < 1288229598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And *yes* all that is required. < 1288229603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Yes* I tested N subsets of that. < 1288229608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*No* they did not fool many common websites. < 1288229615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as Google, Google Images, and GMail. < 1288229616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PyQt involves writing Python. < 1288229617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Gmail. < 1288229623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It has no WebKit binding. < 1288229626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK < 1288229632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Besides, PyQt is ... ugly. < 1288229636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGNALS AND SLOTS WOOOOOOOO < 1288229640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like signals and sluts. < 1288229642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've built that sucker. It damned well has a WebKit binding. < 1288229660 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe i side with pikhq here < 1288229664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: While Qt's UI may be nicer than Gtk, its Python API is not. < 1288229671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, GTK is ugly as fuck in C. < 1288229677 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some dude @work is using pyqt for webkit < 1288229677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when you put it in a language with actual objects... < 1288229690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only upside of GObjects is that it's easy to bind. < 1288229694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also I refuse to do font decisions if you don't use WebKitGtk. < 1288229695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SNAP < 1288229699 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imma let you guys duke it out 'cuz I'd be perfectly happy slapping shit together in C++ X-D < 1288229706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's the *principle* downside of C++... < 1288229708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Qt has a motherfucking compiler from extended C++ to C++. < 1288229719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And its own Makefile generator. < 1288229722 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A motherfucking compiler is the worst kind of compiler. < 1288229723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which only makes things worse. < 1288229724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And its own EVERY FUCKING CLASS EVER < 1288229725 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"extended C++ < 1288229727 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"? < 1288229731 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: See moc < 1288229735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It extends C++. < 1288229735 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1288229737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: For SIGNALS AND SLUTS < 1288229738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SLOTS < 1288229740 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes well < 1288229757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm saying is: Don't get GObject's C usage fool you, Gtk has a way nicer API :P < 1288229758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Qt has used a superset of C++ from, like, day one. < 1288229783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Eh, Qt's not bad in C++. < 1288229783 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: maybe that's why it always makes me feel icky < 1288229789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes it is. < 1288229789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It just doesn't fit anywhere else. < 1288229794 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's opera < 1288229795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IT HAS ITS OWN STRING CLASS < 1288229814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, welcome to the pain of C++ idioms. < 1288229814 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So does WebKit :P < 1288229820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YEAH WELL < 1288229822 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have you seen WebKit's wtf? < 1288229834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Please tell me that stands for WebKit Template Framework < 1288229836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've seen single-file C++ programs with their own file class. < 1288229839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It does. < 1288229845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Please tell me that's deliberate < 1288229845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Name extremely intentional. < 1288229847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1288229848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<333 < 1288229874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I always knew I liked that... uh, person whose nick starts with a "b" and then another letter that totally can't be pronounced after "b" who works on WebKit at Apple and is on IRC and reddit. < 1288229983 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's try out this lil' browser then < 1288230017 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... have not installed python yet? < 1288230030 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1288230032 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too busy rebuilding mah kernel, yeah! < 1288230033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: You'll also need to install pygtk and pywebkitgtk :P < 1288230039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Also: No URL entry field. < 1288230044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD LUCK USING IT RIGHT NOW < 1288230088 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Debian has Python bindings to both Qt and GTK WebKit. < 1288230094 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, python-webkit-dev is GTK < 1288230101 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefor GTK is the correct decision. < 1288230115 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow! pkgsrc will not allow me to install it 'cos it's got vulnerbilties. < 1288230134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Indeed. < 1288230138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: :D < 1288230144 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cvs up might fix! < 1288230150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, you can rip off my code example. Note: Code example licensed under ISC license < 1288230164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As of now) < 1288230164 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I Sue Competitors? < 1288230167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISC_license < 1288230169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like BSD2, but shorter. < 1288230177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is like MIT, but shorter :P < 1288230181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also like BSD3, but shorter < 1288230184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is like BSD4, but not retarded. < 1288230224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the useful distinction from the MIT/X11 license? < 1288230243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's shorter. < 1288230246 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like there is none, MIT/X11 is just more specific. < 1288230253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, it doesn't duplicate the Berne convention. < 1288230259 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should say AUTHOR(S) < 1288230269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: The author is then multiple people. < 1288230276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Really though I don't care about what license you use :P < 1288230277 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can authors DO that? < 1288230282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (As long as it's ISC) < 1288230288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm just joking, it's public domain. < 1288230293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But if it isn't ISC or MIT licensed I will eat your soul. < 1288230297 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll go with GPL3 with literally every option. < 1288230299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Souleatery. < 1288230355 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL3 *and* cede the copyrights to the Free Software Foundation. < 1288230386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I wonder what would happen if you assigned some copyright to FSF without them wanting it :P < 1288230388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I so hope that's possible < 1288230396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ChildPornSearchDeluxe will be all Stallman's in a few weeks < 1288230414 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, they're like the DTCC. In order for software to be traded efficiently, electronically, they must hold it all in escrow, for you. < 1288230473 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288230512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Make it the Creative Commons Public Domain License. < 1288230515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Indeed, they must, in that, I trust. < 1288230518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No. < 1288230535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In countries with the notion of public domain it's public domain, in countries without it's a completely restrictionless license. < 1288230547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am well aware. < 1288230552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1288230554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't give a shit as I don't believe my code can be copyrighted. < 1288230562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it can be, I also don't give a shit and don't consider it copyrighted. < 1288230570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor could easily win any court case with this log :P < 1288230589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1288230609 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS WORK IS COPYRIGHTED ONLY IF IT IS NOT COPYRIGHTED (Q) < 1288230631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: (Q) <-- <3 < 1288230642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW HOW DO I LOAD A FAVICON FROM THE WEB AND GIVE IT TO GTK < 1288230666 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With beer. And hookers. < 1288230682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *blackjack < 1288230697 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it, I knew it wasn't beer, but I couldn't remember what it was so I improvised :P < 1288230698 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember gtk liking any image format except horrible ones (yes, i know .ico is horrble, but it is not gtk-horrible) < 1288230729 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only supports PPM and GIF < 1288230749 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Back in the day it only supported .xpk < 1288230751 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1288230754 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1288230759 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C CODE, BASICALLY < 1288230762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: .xpm/.xbm < 1288230766 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1288230772 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's C code! < 1288230776 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in image form! < 1288230781 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1288230781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288230783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1288230786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an image! < 1288230788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C code form! < 1288230791 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BETTER < 1288230799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "tux.xpm" < 1288230818 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: So this is, what, in the GTK1 days? :P < 1288230824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PPM is like XPM but lame :P < 1288230830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Screenshot-xterm-linux.xpm-GVIM.png < 1288230834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, vim can display PPM images! < 1288230840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the magic of syntax highlighting! < 1288230843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*XPM < 1288230851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Warning: ^ is beautiful < 1288230871 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's pretty epic. < 1288230967 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: GTK1 is AWESOME. < 1288230971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Combine with something like Emacs' various drawing modes and TADA < 1288230977 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.2, 1.3, where-ever it stopped. < 1288231015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.999999999999 < 1288231029 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I approve < 1288231035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTK 2 IS REALLY GTK 1 < 1288231037 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of image) < 1288231038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTK 1.9 RECURRING < 1288231135 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i have built kernel! how to instal??!? < 1288231141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  s.summary = "DO NOT INSTALL THIS GEM. IT WILL DELETE YOUR FILES." < 1288231142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  s.description = "This gem attempts to delete everything in /. If you install it with sudo, you will be really, really fucked." < 1288231144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: make install! < 1288231167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ruby's package manager is so awesome that anyone who has the appropriate permissions on rubyforge.org (not much, basically) can wipe your drive if you use the package manager as root ^ < 1288231171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or your ~ if you run it as a user < 1288231172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW AWESOME IS THAT < 1288231193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/wmorgan/killergem/blob/master/extconf.rb lawl it doesn't actually do it < 1288231194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIMP-OUT < 1288231214 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty awesome < 1288231237 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ok make install installed a few things then bombed I AM CONCERNED OF MY SYSTEM NOW but will proceed < 1288231247 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gently < 1288231257 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a rhinoceros making change < 1288231288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: best. analogy. ever < 1288231302 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOH MYTHBUSTERS < 1288231314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bythmusters < 1288231316 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this the fan shit episode Gregor < 1288231330 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: No, that was last week :P < 1288231366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dearly hope that episode involved someone sitting on a desktop fan while it was running (horizontally) and then shitting directly on it. < 1288231388 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It did not :P < 1288231403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: LAME < 1288231486 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*jawdrop* < 1288231502 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# mv /netbsd /netbsd.old < 1288231504 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# mv netbsd / < 1288231512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I, uh, that works? < 1288231512 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to install new kernel < 1288231516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, /netbsd isn't a directory. < 1288231519 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that;'s what they tell you to do < 1288231526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: That could so easily be a make rule :P < 1288231557 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could! i don't like the BSDs system build system anyway though < 1288231567 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAKE IS NOT A PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE STOP PLEASE STOP < 1288231607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: WE SHOULD STOP WRITING TELEGRAMS STOP PLEASE STOP JUST STOP AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING PLEASE STOP STOP < 1288231716 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make is TC, isn't it? < 1288231720 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Idonno, maybe it's not) < 1288231742 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, never mind, no recursion or iteration except in the the underlying shell. < 1288231757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well... < 1288231763 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which make is MORE than happy to do! < 1288231771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you have a rule for the makefile currently running, it will execute if any of the dependencies are out-of-date. < 1288231778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And then re-run make after you do that. < 1288231789 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Heynow! That's like the CPP trick :P < 1288231794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yup :P < 1288231807 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288231809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Which I'm not convinced works without something that expands to \n) < 1288231822 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither am I, but I'm not willing to believe that it's not yet :P < 1288231834 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288231836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, repeated regexps are TC. < 1288231920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Proof: Imagine a regexp that executes, say, a single step of brainfuck except instead of [] you have | which pushes the code after it to a stack, ; which stops executing, : which pops off stack and executes, and ? which runs the next instruction iff !=0) < 1288231929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pretty easy to imagine, and then just iterate that. < 1288231944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure cpressey can confirm :P < 1288231978 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well a "regexp" only matches a string. If you mean an s/// replacement thingy, sure. Just write a Tag system and be done with it. < 1288231990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Well, yeah. < 1288232006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: s/// with proper, regular regexps and just $n in the replacement. < 1288232014 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well -- do you mean, *only one* regexp, repeated? < 1288232050 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The jury may still be out on that. < 1288232059 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One regex to rule them all. One regex to make an extremely tired and overused reference. < 1288232155 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot believe how long Pringles has gotten away with advertising nothing but the shape of their packaging. The chips are actually pretty good, but all they ever advertise is that they come in a friggin' tennis ball tin. < 1288232184 0 :Chachi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288232195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They're alright but they leave me feeling emptier than when I started gorging on them. < 1288232201 0 :Chachi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to get at the chips at the bottom < 1288232205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is probably why once you pop you can't stop, you're getting *hungrier!* < 1288232214 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's because it takes so much effort to get 'em out of the friggin' tennis ball tin :P < 1288232222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well -- do you mean, *only one* regexp, repeated? < 1288232222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The jury may still be out on that. < 1288232224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, but < 1288232226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see BCT :P < 1288232230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh, i agree, jury's out < 1288232236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D < 1288232318 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1167928494.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1288232414 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1288232442 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just built myself a new kernel, and installed it. It is... about 1200 bytes smaller than the old one. Shall I try reboot for SELF-HOSTED GOODNESS? < 1288232450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: did you use -Os < 1288232452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT COULD BE EVEN SMALLER < 1288232470 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just the standard whatever they supply -- quite surprised that it is not the same size, but < 1288232476 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too worried I guess < 1288232486 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, more like 1500 bytes smaller < 1288232504 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to memorize the recovery instructions then reboot < 1288232516 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if this works, i am going to customize the bastard < 1288232577 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ta < 1288232579 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1288232597 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288232619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DISBELIEVE IN WATCHING LIVE TV WHEN WAITING A WHILE GETS BETTER VIDEO. < 1288232628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SO YOU'VE SAID, EXTENSIVELY < 1288232638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ANALOG TV SUCKS. < 1288232650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ANALOGUE TV IS BECOMING NONEXISTENT IN US < 1288232651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO? < 1288232656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR EVEN HAS BECOME ENTIRELY < 1288232708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Tell that to the cable company. < 1288232718 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288232725 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-hosted goodness. < 1288232730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which still has a good 70 channels of analog and a small handful of HD channels. < 1288232753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: analogue != SD < 1288232771 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It's not true self-hosting until you built the processor. < 1288232780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Also, you have to build the universe that the processor runs in. < 1288232814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's 70 channels of analog NTSC-M and a hundred of low-quality digital SD video and a handful of HD video. < 1288232831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SD video < 1288232837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1288232870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm pretty sure the digital signals are QAM-modulated ATSC, if it matters. < 1288232973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaaah, why must NTSC-M live on? < 1288233078 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1288233118 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288233351 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1288233458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=105844179616633553359.00047b81468e20e376792&z=12 < 1288233500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Record of an actual journey :D < 1288233506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(via GPS) < 1288233541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1288233549 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288233553 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1288233558 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE < 1288233571 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thought I'd share that with you. < 1288233571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: quite < 1288233580 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Xauthority < 1288233605 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i need to rm something < 1288233614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: .Xauthority < 1288233617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your ~ < 1288233618 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TY < 1288233626 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: next time: reboot while X is running: NO < 1288233627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: in future, don't run gui apps as root like that < 1288233631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you didn't < 1288233631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1288233633 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't root < 1288233637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: clearly it's german "with magic cookie" < 1288233638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1288233638 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just sudo reboot'ed < 1288233640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cookie, with magic" < 1288233642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ok don't do that < 1288233643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1288233643 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1288233644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288233657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i've kexec'd from a gnome terminal < 1288233658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was fun < 1288233662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked thohugh < 1288233662 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm used to it giving me a safety zone < 1288233663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1288233668 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you, ... seatbelts < 1288233669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: a what < 1288233682 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a... oh, maybe i am thinking of "shutdown now" < 1288233694 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shuts down cleanly < 1288233717 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1288233751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux iirc reboot = shutdown -r now < 1288233757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably not elsewhere < 1288233794 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288233799 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm .Xauthority* < 1288233801 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the * matters < 1288233806 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1288233836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.fastcompany.com/upload/urchin-1000.jpg < 1288233836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1288233837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever < 1288234010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So how goes the Platform Edition :P < 1288234018 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't even started. < 1288234023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BUT < 1288234024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1288234025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN YOU! < 1288234079 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the maze < 1288234123 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK SO < 1288234129 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to try CVS again < 1288234140 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the Lag: 716 (??) starts appearing that's why < 1288234170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288234181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is there a non-horrible way to put a website's favicon in the gtk window icon? The gtk icon setting methods seem to want either image objects or icon names and the like, and all webkitgtk appears to give is a URI. < 1288234183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[silence] < 1288234183 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should check the log to see if you actually saw that < 1288234184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- #webkit-gtk < 1288234187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i did < 1288234190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: do you see this < 1288234203 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i see it < 1288234221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Yeah, you do need the * after .Xauthority. < 1288234233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Yes, the maze is the best part :P < 1288234241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(catseye: I'm just fucking with you) < 1288234241 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: kayak should handle webpages that are .exe's by loading them in dosbox < 1288234245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: no < 1288234267 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a security risk. unless dosbox contains a flaw. < 1288234275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: just no :P < 1288234285 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, MY browser will totally do that, then. < 1288234287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i like that, < 1288234293 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just need python bindings for dosbox < 1288234295 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1288234299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"blah, unless a large piece of software has a bug" < 1288234324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cthulhu exists, unless Firefox has bugs. < 1288234377 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated pkgsrc through cvs! still won't let me near python unless i do awful things. < 1288234385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: tell me what it says < 1288234386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gotta know < 1288234401 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :===> Checking for vulnerabilities in python26-2.6.6nb2 < 1288234401 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Package python26-2.6.6nb2 has a denial-of-service vulnerability, see http://secunia.com/advisories/41279/ < 1288234404 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: Define ALLOW_VULNERABLE_PACKAGES in mk.conf or IGNORE_URL in pkg_install.conf(5) if this package is absolutely essential. < 1288234407 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Error code 1 < 1288234412 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for python25 < 1288234418 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i could try python24 < 1288234419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i like how they haven't bothered packaging python 2.7 yet < 1288234430 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why should they? < 1288234434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: true, too RECENT < 1288234435 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez i mean < 1288234440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much of a BAD SECURITY RECORD < 1288234442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BANNED < 1288234560 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The vulnerability is caused due to incorrect error handling within the "accept()" method of the asyncore module, which can lead to unexpected exceptions being raised or unexpected types being returned, potentially resulting in crashes of e.g. Python server applications using the module." < 1288234569 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i am so going to be running python servers < 1288234580 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am going to be running python servers SO HARD on this machine < 1288234588 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets the fucking env var
< 1288234604 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mk.conf var < 1288234605 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1288234685 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are doing science SO HARD right now. < 1288234757 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's a #webkit. ask there! < 1288234771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they pointed me at -gtk < 1288234772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1288234772 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE: this may not help < 1288234774 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1288234808 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waaaay too many people in #webkit < 1288234837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288234876 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: python26-2.6.5nb1 is already installed - perhaps an older version? < 1288234881 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watchoo talkin' about netbsd < 1288235116 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fantastic < 1288235130 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rebuildinging all the python-related packages < 1288235391 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this includes subversion fsr) < 1288235437 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is NetBSD the Gentoo of the BSD world? < 1288235449 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Zipper < 1288235456 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. They all do this. < 1288235518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I get it < 1288235526 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm very curious about the Generic Zippe < 1288235528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zipper < 1288235577 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just looking at that < 1288235630 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, damn. delimited continuations. BALK < 1288235654 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i'm sure they're not so bad once you warm up to them, but initially? BALK < 1288235696 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know what a delimited continuation is
< 1288235703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the Zipper-based FS sounds cool < 1288235739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a bit of trouble grasping the lambda as directory < 1288235754 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhh < 1288235760 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~ccshan/recur/recur.pdf < 1288235770 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc that has some delimited continuation stuff in it < 1288235782 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF NOT, it is a classic paper in a field I do not totally understand < 1288235783 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so enjoy! < 1288235818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to read the pdf about zipperfs
< 1288235893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one can cd into a file" < 1288235897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still has a headache
< 1288235941 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vitejte na FTP serveru Welcome to the FTP server of < 1288235941 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fakulty informatiky Faculty of Informatics < 1288235941 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Masarykovy univerzity v Brne Masaryk University, Brno < 1288236044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It has a cycle ... you can do that in Unix, if you are root" < 1288236203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think generic zipper is a pretty cool guy. eh provides constant-time access to a focus point in an arbitrary functional data structure that has a defined traversal interface and doesn't afraid of anything < 1288236326 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925108975.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1288236338 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.cs.indiana.edu/~adamsmd/papers/scrap_your_zippers/ < 1288236370 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all very haskelly and i don't know what to make of it < 1288236407 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288236413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know what Scrap Your Boilerplate is
< 1288236455 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I. I've heard of it, but have never known. < 1288236478 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288236556 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/hmap/ < 1288236559 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know < 1288236566 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can't read PDFs yet) < 1288236674 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if oerjan were here he'd know < 1288236688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data and Typable apparently < 1288236723 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tells me very little. i can infer something, but it's guesswork, and i don't like what i think it is < 1288236745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Scrap_your_boilerplate < 1288236794 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was there < 1288236809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to run back to Smalltalk or Factor < 1288236982 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: in that case I vote for Factor < 1288236986 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk is cool, but < 1288237010 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor is concatenative < 1288237020 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this actually makes it uncool sometimes < 1288237026 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever. < 1288237038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if is one of the more annoying things < 1288237060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not "more" < 1288237068 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write decent video games in Factor! < 1288237107 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288237128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1288237131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never tried < 1288237445 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pkgsrc.org/pkgsrcCon/2006/slides/presentations/why-pkgsrc-sucks.html < 1288237553 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blinks
< 1288237649 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye$ which python2.6 < 1288237649 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/pkg/bin/python2.6 < 1288237652 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkgviews < 1288237659 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, pkgviews < 1288237664 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, why do you not set up < 1288237836 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, apparently not < 1288237904 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet, i swear i was using python just yesterday < 1288237920 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: fall in love with C#! < 1288237938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# is bland < 1288237944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decent, but not sexy < 1288237955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far better than Java, at any rate < 1288238036 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Far"? I dunno... they seem so similar to me < 1288238069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: C# is basically Java with fewer mistakes, in my estimation. < 1288238075 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq++ < 1288238095 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor++ < 1288238121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo++ < 1288238286 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh. pkgsrc subversion depends on the Perl, Python, and Ruby bindings to subversion. Stupid. < 1288238372 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One package depends on three different bindings to single library? < 1288238480 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One package depends on three different bindings to *itself*. Yes. < 1288238535 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if you use subversion at all, you clearly need to use it programatically from three different languages. < 1288238634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe parts of it are written in those three languages < 1288238643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1288238658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would admittedly be weird < 1288238844 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm sure that's not the thought pattern, here < 1288238887 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thought pattern here is "CONVENIENCE" < 1288238896 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so stupid < 1288238976 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This function takes a string to be processed, or if it's a filename that file will be processed, or if it's a URL that file will be downloaded and processed, or if it's a filehandle that file will be read and that will be processed," etc < 1288238986 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1288239019 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you install subversion, you also want the Perl binding to subversion, and the Python binding, and the Ruby binding, and you want Apache 2 because you'll be using that to serve your subverison repo etc etc < 1288239091 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably to localhost if nowhere else? :-) < 1288239161 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the svn protocol; I've never done the svn-over-apache thing, even on localhost. < 1288239289 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not use svn protocol, but just about every git smart transport protocol variant ever designed... :-)
< 1288239303 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including few custom ones... :-) < 1288239394 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288239417 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git://, git:// over TLS, git:// over TLS (another variant), ssh://, file://... < 1288239972 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... no... SciTE packages in pkgsrc, at *all*? < 1288240046 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... just not right < 1288240060 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME USE EMACS < 1288240244 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs "yudit"!
< 1288240282 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim, man! < 1288240283 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIM! < 1288240304 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfah! < 1288240308 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Vim"! < 1288240335 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S JUST VI WITH IMPROVEMENTS < 1288240606 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yudit, on the other hand, will clearly increase my productivity < 1288240682 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*decrease < 1288240824 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at vim's name.
< 1288240826 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lord! < 1288240829 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It IS vi with improvements! < 1288240906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1288241303 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim is vi improved SO HARD < 1288241412 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.npr.org/blogs/deceptivecadence/2010/10/27/130860735/strange-arrangements-beethoven-with-a-salsa-beat This ... is so awesome. < 1288241489 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately it's become dynamically uninteresting. All of the big dynamic shifts in the original are flattened :( < 1288241611 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SDL needs *yasm* to build? wtf?) < 1288241613 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the backing percussion that really ruins it for that. < 1288241618 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They never shut up. < 1288241656 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has awful flashbacks of "Hooked on Classics" and refused to follow that link.
< 1288241663 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*refuses < 1288241728 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wtf is *gedit* bringing in SDL? no... oh, it's dosbox i'mbuilding. ok < 1288241868 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"settings". discuss. < 1288241969 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt vs Gtk+: No-Holds Barred Build Race. < 1288242459 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GTK+ will win that by a landslide. < 1288242465 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Qt is not just C++, but augmented C++. < 1288242487 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I ^C'ed Qt. < 1288242502 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because tying up my machine with both of them seemed... rude. < 1288242542 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your poor Pentium 4. < 1288242588 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Celeron M! < 1288242592 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that's better. < 1288242624 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hew, I just want to know why my X windows mouse pointer is now an "X" at all times. < 1288242673 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other cursors are for the weak. < 1288242726 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i have gforth installed. i will never use it < 1288243091 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I checked, the FreeBSD ports system lets you say 'make install' at the top level, and it will try to install ALL the packages. < 1288243115 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like if you could say "sudo apt-get install '*'" < 1288243115 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288243126 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except built from source. < 1288243144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288243219 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288244134 0 :storkbot!~storkbot@99.94.155.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288244145 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storkbot: are u gonna crash on me agin < 1288244145 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288244148 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1288244270 0 :storkbot!~storkbot@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288244280 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storkbot: is you reformed < 1288244280 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288244286 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storkbot: pretty close < 1288244286 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288244295 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|tell catseye I can take notes too < 1288244295 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Consider it noted. < 1288244300 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1288244301 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: catseye told me to tell you: I can take notes too < 1288244316 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quel piece of machinery < 1288244412 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|help < 1288244420 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storkbot: i need to teach you that one < 1288244420 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288244442 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storkbot: no, really, you need to know it < 1288244442 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288244457 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storkbot: what's your other ysntax error message? < 1288244457 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: omg u errored teh syntax!!1! < 1288244463 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good timing. < 1288244688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a HackBot wannabee with 100% more "actually up" :P < 1288244730 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is SO far from being HackBot you wouldn't believe < 1288244801 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could I even do that? Can't run plash, and I don't think jails exist on NetBSD -- just FreeBSD < 1288244874 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess you're punked 8-D < 1288244933 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1288244948 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has decided that EgoBot is safe enough, since it does very little I/O.
< 1288244951 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooooo < 1288244995 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackBot would probably be fine too if I pruned its FS. < 1288245010 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# dd if=/dev/zero of=test.big bs=1M count=10 conv=fdatasync < 1288245010 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10485760 bytes (10 MB) copied, 2.90703 s, 3.6 MB/s < 1288245013 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approaching tolerable! < 1288245081 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print "hi" < 1288245127 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1288245128 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1288245139 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help language < 1288245140 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for language! < 1288245141 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1288245142 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1288245157 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!forth 32 dup + . < 1288245158 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 < 1288245193 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I note 'asm' is both 'Esoteric' and 'Other' and what assembly language *is* it, anyway? < 1288245225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 AT&T < 1288245235 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joyous. < 1288245244 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that "perl" is esoteric but not other :P < 1288245269 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1288245271 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ du -hs env-old-2010-10-28/ env/ < 1288245271 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25M env-old-2010-10-28/ < 1288245271 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :308K env/ < 1288245274 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1288245275 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo "$PATH" < 1288245276 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/games < 1288245287 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /usr/games < 1288245288 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :banner < 1288245299 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mini-HackEgo we have here? < 1288245307 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh banner YESH < 1288245308 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#### < 1288245314 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... close enough./ < 1288245358 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: totally needs minischeme, which I am now deciding is the coolest scheme. < 1288245374 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after DrScheme went all Racket on the world. < 1288245428 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: EgoBot's !sh is limited by having no persistent store. < 1288245443 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Whereas HackBot's ` is limited by people putting huge fucking files in its persistent store :P < 1288245485 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1288245495 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1288245496 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :69| oklofok: I'm a tad over-apologetic. I apologize. < 1288245502 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looka how fast that was! < 1288245512 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you rebuilt its store? < 1288245515 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1288245518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removed all the cruft. < 1288245525 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence my 25MB -> 308K message above. < 1288245554 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'd really like to do is implement this via a clever unionfs ... < 1288245557 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... suspected, but did not know fer sure, that was what it was. < 1288245592 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288245598 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :247|* Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288245599 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: Do not trust a computer you cannot throw out of a window. Including the window too far from the rope. < 1288245607 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote fizzie: got my dead keys back". < 1288245609 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :247| elliott: Do not trust a computer you cannot throw out of a window. Including the window too far from the rope. < 1288245609 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :248| fizzie: got my dead keys back". < 1288245609 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: madam president, in order to achieve the planned strong increase in jobs in the french overseas departments martinique, guadeloupe and french guiana. as you know, in any case would leave unsolved the problems which will face us, but it cannot protect the health of consumers is one of the european parliament! it is all we need is more working opportunities, more resources, up to now cannot be regarded as waste but can be < 1288245823 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288246164 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288246402 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1288246402 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl* ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1288246419 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1288246420 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1288246429 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a fan of europarl) < 1288246447 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: this is much better, RIGHT? < 1288246449 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: banging your head against one problem really hard until you hit enter and it closes to match the integration of common lisp, by fnord. < 1288246462 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally. < 1288246893 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|tell Phantom_Hoover Henry Freeman will give me hop! < 1288246893 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Consider it noted. < 1288246953 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately HackEgo can't handle `tell, as it can only react on ` < 1288247072 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storkbot sees all, but understands very little. < 1288247090 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i changed the control character from @ to | based on oerjan saying that overlap with lambdabot is unwise < 1288247112 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody should bring a bot with a control character in the range [A-Za-z]. < 1288247117 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it'll fire for no obvious reason. < 1288247127 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fantastic. Yes. < 1288247541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reserved the [a-z] range already two weeks ago. < 1288247548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But [A-Z] is still free, I think. < 1288247559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There was a discussion on bot control characters.) < 1288247578 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288247664 0 :storkbot!~storkbot@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288247668 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|help < 1288247678 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|source < 1288247682 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storkbot: help < 1288247689 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:( < 1288247738 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288248059 0 :storkbot!~storkbot@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288248093 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|help < 1288248094 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Help is available for: assignment expressions print goto < 1288248102 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|help print < 1288248102 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: To print a string, issue the command 'print string'. < 1288248105 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|print hello < 1288248105 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hello < 1288248110 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|source < 1288248110 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: http://pastie.org/1254707 < 1288248127 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|tell Phantom_Hoover Henry Freeman will give me hop! < 1288248127 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Consider it noted. < 1288248298 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(messages should probably be a magic queue in the user's variable space. but, not yet.) < 1288248304 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night. < 1288249067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to applaud The Daily Show for using having the freaking President on the show correctly.
< 1288249073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half-hour interview. < 1288249078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, there, is how it's done. < 1288249136 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to? < 1288249194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's America. The norm would be a 5 minute interview preceded by 25 minutes of penis jokes. < 1288249205 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288249216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of those 5 minutes, most people would only see 30 seconds. < 1288249243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, most people will *still* only see 30 seconds. God damned soundbites. < 1288249387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now to struggle to convince myself to sleep. < 1288249954 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1288250018 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288251081 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1288252799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1288252800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1288254764 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288254796 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288255134 0 :atrapado!~ro@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288255144 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288255147 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1288255147 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288255147 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1288255147 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288255726 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288256174 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1288256228 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288257608 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1288257663 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288257881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288259421 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288259484 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288260132 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288261294 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1288261577 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1288261637 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288263181 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1288263218 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288266319 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1288266356 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1288266567 0 :cheater_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1288266575 0 :cheater_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really cool sliding window demo: http://www3.rad.com/networks/2004/sliding_window/ < 1288268568 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1288268609 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288270010 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... From one mail: "To be blunt, I feel is being subject to a DoS attack[...]"... And then in reply (not by me): "I note you don't say a DDoS attack.". < 1288270137 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That mailing list is good example of that there are trolls far more dangerous than the garden-variety ones... :-/ < 1288270402 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1288270417 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of trolling can be pretty impressive, as long as it doesn't disrupt anything important < 1288270477 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I feel that person has an agenda to sabotage the efforts... < 1288270762 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1288270806 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288270814 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288271073 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah (roughly translated): "After wasting food, the worst way to play with food is process it for no apparent reason, e.g. by removing health from healthy butter and milk and replacing it with additives causing digestive problems and blood vessel blockages.". < 1288271180 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... I wouldn't want to see somebody getting transistent global amnesia attack (one major cause is statins (cholesterol drugs)) while driving a car... :-) < 1288271332 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1288272050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:52:57 I think I'm going to uninstall my web browser and then act like people should have to provide me content without having one. ← There are an obnoxiously huge number of people with that exact attitude. < 1288272050 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: catseye told me to tell you: Henry Freeman will give me hop! < 1288272067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did he now? < 1288272132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:59:52 `addquote * Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. ← when did he say that? < 1288272389 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1288272438 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288273502 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1288273535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1288273878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sometime before 21:59:52 :P < 1288274107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> select serial,tstamp,nick,type,body from irc.logs where body ilike '%bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo.%'; < 1288274107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : serial | tstamp | nick | type | body < 1288274107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------+---------------------+----------------+------+---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- < 1288274107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1895410 | 2010-10-25 03:55:10 | Gregor | 1 | bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288274109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1895412 | 2010-10-25 03:55:24 | elliott | 0 | `addquote * Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288274113 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there is the answer < 1288275082 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288275955 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A dolphin from another stovepipe sells a steam engine to the self-loathing tornado. A canyon befriends a short order cook toward a chain saw. Most people believe that a turn signal related to the formless void reaches an understanding with a tuba player near a globule, but they need to remember how single-handledly a polka-dotted fundraiser beams with joy. A formless void related to a vacuum cleaner senator related to a skyscrape < 1288275961 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam gets better all the time :) < 1288276814 0 :Chachi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1288277545 0 :fizzie!~fis@2001:1bc8:102:587b:230:18ff:fea9:6f01 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288278726 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: fungot's day job < 1288278764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1288278794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look what you did: now I have to peru7se th logs. < 1288278812 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'll repost to save you the trouble < 1288278821 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "A dolphin from another stovepipe sells a steam engine to the self-loathing tornado. A canyon befriends a short order cook toward a chain saw. Most people believe that a turn signal related to the formless void reaches an understanding with a tuba player near a globule, but they need to remember how single-handledly a polka-dotted fundraiser beams with joy. A formless void related to a vacuum cleaner senator related to a < 1288278826 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : spam gets better all the time :) < 1288279014 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, US legal system weirdness I encountered reading Groklaw today: Oracle are claiming that Google can't legally claim their patents invalid, because they currently employ their inventors < 1288279082 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am 99% sure that won't work as a legal argument. < 1288279156 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that hardly matters < 1288279168 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially in patent law < 1288279216 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where it's mainly a war of attrition < 1288279579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288279770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : spam gets better all the time :) <-- indeed! < 1288279789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I presume you have "text only" on just like me? < 1288279965 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1288280144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I wonder what happened, I should have gotten an invoice from the mobile phone carrier by now... < 1288280167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wouldn't have got lost in the mail because it is an electronic invoice... < 1288281158 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288281251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: There's a far better argument out there. < 1288281286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Java is GPLv3'd. Thus, Oracle has given a copyright license for derivative works of Java *and* a patent license for related patents they hold. < 1288281304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Making everything Oracle claims moot. < 1288281313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're now claiming copyright violation, BTW) < 1288281377 0 :cpressey|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1288281474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I do belive Oracle has become the new SCO. < 1288281867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radical, baby < 1288281886 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is SCO still the old SCO? < 1288281971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: jumpin' jumpin' < 1288282281 0 :fizzie!~fis@2001:1bc8:102:587b:230:18ff:fea9:6f01 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288282782 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-74.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288283005 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288283039 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288283060 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288283326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : waaaay too many people in #webkit < 1288283348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's at the point where the probability of a non-insignificant portion of the channel having no idea about webkit is 1 < 1288283507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:37:48 can you write decent video games in Factor! < 1288283512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, *yes* < 1288283516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has very competent opengl bindings < 1288283521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore sgeo will port The Shit to it tomorrow < 1288283529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess that probably actually does no rendering itself < 1288283583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:58:06 sigh. pkgsrc subversion depends on the Perl, Python, and Ruby bindings to subversion. Stupid. < 1288283590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just keep them all in one package if i was going to do that :p < 1288283595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as that's probably how it's distribute < 1288283598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*distributed < 1288283599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with subversion < 1288283621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:26:12 also... no... SciTE packages in pkgsrc, at *all*? < 1288283621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:27:26 that's... just not right < 1288283622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAEDIT! < 1288283626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT MAKES PIXIES SCREAM < 1288283652 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have a weird python setup here, or i'd be using it already < 1288283667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: is it really that much harder just to fucking compile python? < 1288283670 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should try to fix my weird python setup < 1288283681 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it IS compiled, FOR SPECIAL < 1288283694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i mean from the tarball. < 1288283708 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, I compiled it. < 1288283742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:54:16 * catseye has awful flashbacks of "Hooked on Classics" and refused to follow that link. < 1288283743 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 2.6.6 broke and/or fixed Unicode in a way where one of our unit tests fails. < 1288283745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god no it is awesome i swear < 1288283772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You're on an older version of Python because *one of your unit tests is broken*? < 1288283783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love your company. What company do you work at so that I can NEVER USE ITS PRODUCTS EVER? < 1288283821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on an older version of Python because *no one knows if the unit test is right or not* and *Python changed its Unicode behaviour* < 1288283831 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"older" being 2.6.4 < 1288283834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:10:24 Hew, I just want to know why my X windows mouse pointer is now an "X" at all times. < 1288283836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the default! < 1288283840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xsetroot can probably help you with that < 1288283850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: couldn't you just make it work with 2.7 < 1288283888 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have no idea how slow and painful upgrades are in real production systems < 1288283897 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither does Vorpal < 1288283902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I thought you guys were Agile. < 1288283906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i know, i really do < 1288283911 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGILE MEANS NOTHING, YOU KNOW THAT < 1288283914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just taking the piss out of your shit company :p < 1288283918 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288283918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how soul-crushing your job is < 1288283929 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparatively, this is heaven < 1288283936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparatively to *what* :D < 1288283942 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to my previous jobs < 1288283945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you do a stint at Microsoft non-Research? < 1288283948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, or, GNU?! < 1288283959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wages: Stallman's foot-pickings < 1288283978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will clam up now, leaving this entirely to your imagination. < 1288284020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:18:35 kind of like if you could say "sudo apt-get install '*'" < 1288284022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to do this *now* < 1288284036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: is your company relatively well-known? I MUST KNOOOOW < 1288284051 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh is able to tab-complete on APT packages, so you might be able to hack that in. < 1288284083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: jumpin' jumpin' < 1288284088 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1288284091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ aptitude search $(aptitude search . | awk '{print $2}') < 1288284095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or I could just do this. < 1288284102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoyingly, tab-complete ability rarely translates to glob integration. < 1288284114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 65%] ?name("abcmidi"): Filtering packages < 1288284121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is going to take fifty years < 1288284124 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1288284130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: do you have ANY IDEA how many conflicts this will cause < 1288284141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc someone found out the largest set of installable debian packages < 1288284143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should use that instead < 1288284156 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1288284215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:49:08 * Gregor has decided that EgoBot is safe enough, since it does very little I/O. < 1288284216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1288284220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo happy < 1288284221 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288284226 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy < 1288284230 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo happier < 1288284238 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happier < 1288284246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo happiest! < 1288284246 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happiest! happiest! < 1288284256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(He's... special.) < 1288284266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:58:05 --- join: HackEgo (~HackEgo@codu.org) joined #esoteric < 1288284272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wl no lutefisk < 1288284273 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oct 28 00:54:06 $ du -hs env-old-2010-10-28/ env/ < 1288284273 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oct 28 00:54:06 25M env-old-2010-10-28/ < 1288284273 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oct 28 00:54:06 308K env/ < 1288284283 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lutefisk < 1288284286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1288284296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: if you removed wl i would scrape your soul from its bowls and then eviscerate it < 1288284299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fyi < 1288284305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since i don't have it locally :p < 1288284330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:00:07 < 1288284336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about getting all the quotes I tried to add in the meantime? :P < 1288284366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's actually it. < 1288284427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh Gregor? Greggy? < 1288284429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:59:58 247|* Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288284430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:00:09 247| elliott: Do not trust a computer you cannot throw out of a window. Including the window too far from the rope. < 1288284435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 247 < 1288284436 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :247| elliott: Do not trust a computer you cannot throw out of a window. Including the window too far from the rope. < 1288284438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 246 < 1288284439 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :246| syntax is the least important part of a programming language other than Python < 1288284440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 248 < 1288284442 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1288284448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Greggy, things went bad. < 1288284469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1288284470 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1288284474 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288284477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick repo-surgery time. < 1288284494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 0 < 1288284494 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1288284503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288284504 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :248|* Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288284510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: Do not trust a computer you cannot throw out of a window. Including the window too far from the rope. < 1288284511 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :249| elliott: Do not trust a computer you cannot throw out of a window. Including the window too far from the rope. < 1288284516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote fizzie: got my dead keys back". < 1288284517 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so that you can implement your own < 1288284518 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250| fizzie: got my dead keys back". < 1288284520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1288284522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 247 < 1288284523 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :247| elliott: Do not trust a computer you cannot throw out of a window. Including the window too far from the rope. < 1288284528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1288284530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boggles
< 1288284532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 0 < 1288284532 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1288284536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 247 < 1288284537 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :247| elliott: Do not trust a computer you cannot throw out of a window. Including the window too far from the rope. < 1288284540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1288284542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 246 < 1288284543 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :246| syntax is the least important part of a programming language other than Python < 1288284544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 248 < 1288284545 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :248|* Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288284550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 249 < 1288284551 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :249| elliott: Do not trust a computer you cannot throw out of a window. Including the window too far from the rope. < 1288284557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You, uh, `revert doesn't work. < 1288284562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 1 < 1288284563 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1288284566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 247 < 1288284567 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :247|* Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288284584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert cf08cd8327ce < 1288284585 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1288284587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 247 < 1288284588 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :247|* Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288284590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat < 1288284646 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1288285070 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288285209 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@129.21.64.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288285258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 21:18:35 kind of like if you could say "sudo apt-get install '*'" going to do this *now* <-- does it work? < 1288285271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still busy figuring. out. everything < 1288285274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 64%] ?name("libccs-perl"): Filtering packages < 1288285277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is only the first stage < 1288285281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the stage that is usually not even visible < 1288285283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1288285284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1288285286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1288285291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude search $(aptitude search . | awk '{print $2}') < 1288285292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot the error < 1288285313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ sudo aptitude install $(aptitude search . | awk '{print $2}') < 1288285313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ < 1288285318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fuck you." --aptitude < 1288285327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries apt-get
< 1288285330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't remember output format of aptitude search < 1288285332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get does the same < 1288285335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's irrelevant < 1288285336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: look again < 1288285350 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: some packages conflict with each other < 1288285353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not regex? < 1288285358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, there is that too < 1288285358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... < 1288285359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: LOOK AGAIN < 1288285366 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you really sure you want to install multiple bootloaders simultaneously? < 1288285374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, they do; there was an email i read about the largest set of installable package managers. < 1288285375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1288285377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, they do; there was an email i read about the largest set of installable packages in Debian. < 1288285388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: which probably took ages to compute, but still, there's only 20k of them < 1288285394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, assuming aptitude search . | awk '{print $2}' works, that line looks ok < 1288285395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and conflicts aren't very common < 1288285407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how about looking all the parts that aren't that < 1288285415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : aptitude search $(aptitude search . | awk '{print $2}') < 1288285417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot the error < 1288285435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*looking at < 1288285436 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I spotted it a while ago < 1288285441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh I thought you *wanted* to test performance there first using search for all the packages < 1288285442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, but Vorpal is dense :) < 1288285445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... < 1288285448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, but Vorpal is super-dense :) < 1288285455 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to find a second error out of spite < 1288285471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: WHAT IF APTITUDE SEARCH CHANGED ITS DISPLAY WHAT *THEN* < 1288285477 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1288285490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, well it's obvious < 1288285490 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if you were on DOS, and it exceeded the maximum command line limit? < 1288285503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes xargs < 1288285509 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|load < 1288285510 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288285511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, wait, Debian/DOS? < 1288285534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, obvious error: he will be reinstalling packages already installed presumably < 1288285544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, should use dpkg to filter the output < 1288285550 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not an error, aptitude interprets that as a request to update the package to the latest version < 1288285556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, not xargs < 1288285570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has to work out dependencies < 1288285574 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xargs breaks the command up into multiple commands, which you might not want in this case < 1288285575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1288285584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, i should just find that largest set of installable packages post < 1288285586 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about using GNU parallel to parallelise the installation amongst multiple computers, to save time? < 1288285588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run whatever script it has < 1288285589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and install those < 1288285596 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus points if they don't share a filesystem < 1288285651 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you logread my post about Jeff Atwood and reddit, btw? < 1288285666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, and logreplied < 1288285676 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I'll look there < 1288285679 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having wireless issues... < 1288285682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: might be a day ago or so < 1288285689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: just grep // :P < 1288285703 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288285749 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm lucky to even have grep installed on this computer < 1288285752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmph, parallel seems like another one of those tools that seem to make things so easy except surprise surprise, they only work on embarrassingly parallel problems < 1288285761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "grep" is a verb meaning "search (perhaps for regexp)" < 1288285765 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hatred of Thunderbird: you can't open it simultaneously on two computers that share a /home < 1288285771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, grepping a log is / or Ctrl+F < 1288285784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ooh, that's interesting < 1288285787 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to search for then, I suppose, I talked that day too < 1288285796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm, no < 1288285798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i have timestamps < 1288285800 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Firefox complains, and doesn't save bookmarks, etc, but at least lets you try < 1288285804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: or rather clog does < 1288285806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i quoted it from clog < 1288285820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: try , I probably talked before you < 1288285823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, stop talking about it and go do it :P < 1288285831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: anyway, most single-instance applications use DBus or the like < 1288285836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a file in /home... < 1288285839 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if there's a flamewar I could really get into (other than darcs vs. git), it would be Evolution vs. Thunderbird < 1288285842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it *specifically* check for that? < 1288285853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but *both* are unfixable pieces of shit! < 1288285908 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1288285910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:20:50 15:52:57 I think I'm going to uninstall my web browser and then act like people should have to provide me content without having one. ← There are an obnoxiously huge number of people with that exact attitude. < 1288285915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that it happened just after. < 1288285929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Vorpal expecting a non-Flash link from cpressey after Vorpal pointed out he doesn't have Flash) < 1288285936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what it happened just after. < 1288285959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:25:55 "A dolphin from another stovepipe sells a steam engine to the self-loathing tornado. A canyon befriends a short order cook toward a chain saw. Most people believe that a turn signal related to the formless void reaches an understanding with a tuba player near a globule, but they need to remember how single-handledly a polka-dotted fundraiser beams with joy. A formless void related to a vacuum cleaner senator related to a skyscr < 1288285959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ape < 1288285960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude yes < 1288285976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: can you forward that spam to me? it is amazing < 1288285991 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look for it < 1288286019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I wonder what they generate it with... I want their babble software. < 1288286039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates Release.gpg < 1288286039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not resolve 'security.debian.org' < 1288286041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how reassuring! < 1288286042 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll pastebin it < 1288286070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amazing thing is, most modern computers have enough disk to have all those packages installed at once < 1288286076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even the ones that aren't installed as .debs < 1288286085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your debian menu might get ever so slightly horrific < 1288286086 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1975603 < 1288286103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: thanks (that might get removed for spamming :)) < 1288286106 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not forwarding it, because the email firewall here would go crazy if I started forwarding spam, it's that sort of firewall) < 1288286119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: did it come with the quoting? < 1288286131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Any flavored hell can pee on the pig pen, but it takes a real football team to throw a slyly optimal formless void at a hole puncher." < 1288286135 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I did that mostly by mistake, then by laziness < 1288286147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: was it just all on one line? or just simply wrapped? < 1288286151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as i'm not missing any fun formatting :P < 1288286175 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlines were preserved, it seems < 1288286180 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not particularly fun formatting, just simple wrapping < 1288286198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote [spam] Any flavored hell can pee on the pig pen, but it takes a real football team to throw a slyly optimal formless void at a hole puncher. < 1288286200 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :248|[spam] Any flavored hell can pee on the pig pen, but it takes a real football team to throw a slyly optimal formless void at a hole puncher. < 1288286210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quotes.db is slowly turning into a fortune database :P < 1288286213 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did snip out the URLs that came before and after it < 1288286234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any nation can lazily negotiate a prenuptial agreement with a shabby bottle of beer, but it takes a real skyscraper to overwhelmingly give secret financial aid to some cargo bay. < 1288286236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just beyond amazing < 1288286237 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something that looks vaguely like MIME encoding, but broken < 1288286273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ok, this has to be a person pretending to be a spambot < 1288286274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be < 1288286287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the college-educated cargo bay" < 1288286295 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it looks to me like it was generating grammatically-correct sentences recursively < 1288286308 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much like interfuzz generates syntactically correct INTERCAL expressions < 1288286317 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no meaning there, juts a lot of random stuff that parses correctly < 1288286322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but they're awesome sentences < 1288286329 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ingenuity is presumably in the provided wordlist < 1288286347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a lot of "any can but it takes a real to " in that spam < 1288286348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm totally seeing a dolphin crossing stovepipe boundaries to sell a steam engine to the tornado busy cutting itself. < 1288286362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Indeed. < 1288286382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "A diskette from a particle accelerator is fried." <-- this makes sense < 1288286387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put a diskette in a particle accelerator, shit happens < 1288286398 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, not only are there two different spamcheckers on the system (thus explaining the [SPAM?] [spam?] in the title), but they both provided a full explanation in the headers < 1288286411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Any minivan can find subtle faults with the tornado over an inferiority complex, but it takes a real power drill to greedily operate a small fruit stand with a dust bunny beyond the cargo bay." < 1288286413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 5 or 3 inch? < 1288286428 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main reason for marking it as spam was that the sender was blacklisted < 1288286429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's a personal question! Also, have you stopped beating your wife? < 1288286438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: heh < 1288286440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1288286446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: maybe this is spammer's plans to get trusted? < 1288286456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant for the diskette :P < 1288286457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like something generated from a PCFG; one does wonder whether it has been handcrafted or induced, though. < 1288286462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: fill up inboxes with unique nonsense that nonetheless looks non-spammy, and then start reeling off spam < 1288286467 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, +2.0 total for not being sent from a real name, and for containing text sized to less than 2px < 1288286469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, PCFG? < 1288286469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You haven't answered my question yet! < 1288286474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mu < 1288286476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wow, not sending from a real name is a penalty? < 1288286484 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 1/5 of the threshold < 1288286488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's like a context-free grammar but with probabilities for each production. < 1288286492 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be nearly enough to bump it over the threshold without other stuff < 1288286495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that's crappy < 1288286500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1288286500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1288286509 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was a little surprised, though < 1288286530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: WTF of the Day: < 1288286533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIAGNOSTICS < 1288286533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : apt-get returns zero on normal operation, decimal 100 on error. < 1288286559 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that was to make it slightly easier to port to VMS? < 1288286573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, uh.. it wouldn't would it? < 1288286593 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(VMS famously uses even numbers for failure, odd numbers for success; the libc special-cases 0 by swapping it with some other value, but 0 for success, 1 for failure is just wrong on VMS as 1 means something else and it isn't translated) < 1288286605 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is, incidentally, what the EXIT_FAILURE constant is for) < 1288286645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oh, really? < 1288286651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'd better start using it then for all those VMS users! < 1288286657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe no VMS support is a feature.) < 1288286686 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do sometimes when what I'm writing doesn't have any POSIX in, and I remember < 1288286708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: No self-respecting C compiler that purported to compile POSIXy sources wouldn't translate, anyway :P < 1288286733 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, who'd dare purport to compile POSIXy sources on VMS? < 1288286761 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, a compiler that simply purported to compile C89 quite possibly wouldn't translate anything but 0, due to EXIT_SUCCESS == 0 being a requirement < 1288286775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ha < 1288286783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what about the Actually C Shell? < 1288286789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: in C, returning 0 indicates an error! < 1288286799 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1288286810 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = success, >0 = error is standard in nearly all POSIXy stuff < 1288286819 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including both programs themselves, and much of the stdlib < 1288286839 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some of the stdlib has <0 = error, >= 0 = success, if they want to give a different piece of info at the same time) < 1288286905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, ok < 1288286909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if (!foo()) < 1288286913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is very common to check for a libc error < 1288286918 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no? < 1288286924 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(foo()) is very common to check for a libc error < 1288286926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what libc function returns 0 on success? < 1288286930 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when foo() returns a pointer < 1288286941 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all the ones that return errno on failure < 1288286961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: name a few? I'm not doubting you, it's just that I write things like if (!foo()) all the time < 1288286971 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, I can't remember < 1288286973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :io functions, ok, those tend to do freaky stuff < 1288286979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I think returning errno is rare. < 1288286983 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the ones I'm spotchecking tend to return nonnegative on success, negative on failure < 1288287008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: right < 1288287011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, IO ones are famous for such things indeed. < 1288287014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: those tend to be IO ones < 1288287016 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, mknod(2) returns 0 on success, -1 on error < 1288287023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: IO < 1288287028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone knows stdio was designed by crack monkeys on crack :) < 1288287033 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm talking about POSIX here < 1288287038 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's in POSIX but not C89, yet isn't IO? < 1288287042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, that leaves no words to describe the C++ IO < 1288287059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I generally count C as including POSIX because all non-POSIX C platforms are godawful :) < 1288287064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Or rather POSIX as including C which it... does. < 1288287067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: But I don't know. < 1288287067 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, we're thinking differently < 1288287083 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, most functions which aren't I/O aren't side-effecting < 1288287088 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the only real reason to use them is for their return value < 1288287093 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I coded for pure C platforms quite a lot. < 1288287101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mostly embedded systems < 1288287102 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288287106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded systems should not be running C. < 1288287113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not if they're *really* embedded < 1288287134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rather than, say, smartphone-embedded, which means "as fast as a slow desktop PC") < 1288287144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and *those* should probably run posix < 1288287155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, I don't count exit() as IO < 1288287156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, RCX, some AVR stuff at university and so on < 1288287174 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and what exactly is the return value of exit()? < 1288287181 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty bad example for a different reason < 1288287186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I wasn't using it as an example. < 1288287192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm refining my definition of "IO" for you. < 1288287193 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could argue setjmp/longjmp too < 1288287197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, um, memcpy, strcpy, strcat, strncat, snprintf, ... < 1288287199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list goes on < 1288287204 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1288287207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: basically, if you imagined POSIX merging into C, then anything you could put into stdio.h is IO < 1288287214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like exit and string.h functions aren't < 1288287219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor are, say, time functions < 1288287221 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: memcpy returns a pointer < 1288287232 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likewise for most of the rest of that family < 1288287235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or stdlib.h, either < 1288287242 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(snprintf is pretty much I/O) < 1288287242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, indeed, I just pointed out "non-IO but side-effects" < 1288287259 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's not really side-effects, if it's the main purpose of the function < 1288287273 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I see what you mean in that it's affecting the params, so the return value could be used for something else < 1288287282 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a different pattern, I think: pointer manipulation returns one of the arguments < 1288287286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I thought you meant side effect in the sense of functional programming < 1288287303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where abs() would be side effect free (ignoring the undefined behaviour for INT_MIN) < 1288287314 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, in, say, OCaml, memcpy is side-effect free < 1288287316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: heh -- you know people who rage at the sight of strlen in a for loop condition? < 1288287319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, hm < 1288287328 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely it depends on the context? < 1288287335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, as a way to loop through a string < 1288287337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: or similar < 1288287349 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, well I rage at that sometimes, especially if the string isn't null-terminated < 1288287352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if the string is modified then it would be utterly stupid < 1288287353 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know what you mean < 1288287355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, they have a bone to pick with K&R: < 1288287357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: for (i = 0, j = strlen(s)-1; i Vorpal: well i was considering s as a char[] here. <-- ah okay, not as a char* then < 1288287519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wow, you are such a prescriptivist < 1288287527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or as a char *; K&R used "char s[]" as the argument to reverse < 1288287533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hooray autoconversion < 1288287553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, modifying s = s++ or such to me. modifying *s would mean changing the value it points to < 1288287554 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm reminded of Hofstatder's sentence "this sentence has cabbage six words" < 1288287571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: modifying s[] :P < 1288287574 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps it's an in-place reverse < 1288287581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess I have worked too much with frama-c recently, it makes that distinction < 1288287596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, uh... ? < 1288287598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Envelope damn you to hell axiom. < 1288287602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: HOW FAR CAN I GO < 1288287604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, wrt the cabbage that is < 1288287617 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're missing the point < 1288287632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: (Note: correct parsing is "Envelope, damn you; to hell, axiom!".) < 1288287633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, oh. right. then that makes meta-sense < 1288287642 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh wow, that does actually parse < 1288287649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: UNINTENTIONALLY, I assure you < 1288287679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I take it back anyway just to avoid any even greyish pigments on your pure white soul < 1288287707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err are you claiming that "Envelope damn you to hell axiom." does parse as it is written there? < 1288287732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's obviously "envelope, damn you; to hell, axiom". < 1288287737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes < 1288287740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OBVIOUSLY < 1288287748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well the ; is not that *obvious* < 1288287751 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This sentence contains one nonstandard English flutzpah" < 1288287753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the commas are < 1288287769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Envelope-damn you to hell-axiom. < 1288287777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: You've got some nonstandard English chutzpah. < 1288287784 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This sentence contains multiple nonsklarkish English flutzpahs, but the overall pluggandzip can be glorked from context" < 1288287786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1288287798 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hofstatder was so good at confusing self-referential sentences... < 1288287804 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It refers to Mr. Envelope's Damn-You-to-Hell Axiom. < 1288287837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting seeing these alternative interpretations < 1288287856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jargon File puts that as "This gubblick contains many nonsklarkish English flutzpahs, but the overall pluggandisp can be glorked [sic] from context", since it's in the entry for 'glark' and it says 'glork' there. < 1288287868 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, it is made easier by "glorked" being quite near "gorked" < 1288287872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1288287877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groked* < 1288287886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Cheap plastic imitation of the Jargon File, or the Jargon File? < 1288287890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gorky'd. < 1288287896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: rms maintains the cheap plastic imitation of the Jargon File.) < 1288287896 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, you wouldn't expect me to have it exactly memorised, would you? < 1288287906 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you just muddle esr and rms? < 1288287910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought it was esr that did? < 1288287912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, yes. < 1288287913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*esr < 1288287917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1288287922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's three lowercase letters; same person! < 1288287923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any TLA is good enough. < 1288287941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/mundane-name < 1288287950 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what sort of hatred you engender from what sort of fanboy for mixing up those two
< 1288287968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, next you will confuse rms and djb. And that will be a sad dauy < 1288287969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :day* < 1288287978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yes, I quoted "that" version: it's the one that googles fastests. < 1288287982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I vow to commit seppuku if that ever happens. < 1288287987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, good < 1288287996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ais523_ suddenly gets irrationally worried] < 1288288001 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you actually own a wakizashi? < 1288288006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1288288008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I can always obtain one! < 1288288013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the need arises. < 1288288019 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it is jwz who maintains the REAL jargon file (in his pluggandzip) < 1288288022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, you are apparently quite predictable :D < 1288288035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wat < 1288288037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what if you mix up djb and jwz? < 1288288037 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: most people are < 1288288041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, that was not what i expected < 1288288043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, well yes < 1288288044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expected "please don't" < 1288288050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1288288051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well djb and jwz are both cool < 1288288054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no biggie < 1288288054 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: any tla < 1288288066 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see, I have two separate predictable responses to that statement < 1288288069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: DUDE #rho < 1288288073 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can at least have the fun of guessing which I'll use < 1288288081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I don't think your other response was predictable; it was not worrying. < 1288288087 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...idea. < 1288288092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so as long as none of {esr,rms} are confused with {djb,jwz} you will not commit seppuku? < 1288288097 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang using only four-letter words. < 1288288098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Whatever :P < 1288288103 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be poetic and nice, mostly. < 1288288104 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Four long talk. < 1288288112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: that's just an esolang with 26^4 instructions max < 1288288115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so interesting? < 1288288117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Or as we say in our department, you have a bimodal prior for the response. < 1288288128 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It is more fun as a talk that you have to say out loud. < 1288288129 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Are you saying that's a good name for it, or that it already exists? < 1288288131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I would, however, be very good at the Assign Names to a Random Snippet of Text From #esoteric Semi-Recently (e.g. 2007 onwards?) < 1288288146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Where I only get, e.g. #1, #2 and #3 to represent each participant and I have to assign names to each of them. < 1288288161 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Additional restrictions would make it more interesting. < 1288288164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Some people make that game super-easy though, e.g. zzo38 and oklopol :) < 1288288166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which reminds me of a recent fun one: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd102010s.gif < 1288288174 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, esolangs using only 1-bit instructions < 1288288176 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Four Long Talk is the name of a talk that ... does be... in my mind. < 1288288188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1288288195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT right? < 1288288196 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would be an interesting game, I think < 1288288199 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four or Less Long may be a more good way to name this talk. < 1288288200 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: quite a lot < 1288288209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Forlorntalk < 1288288219 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, did I mention Sansology in here yet? I think I did, but without a lot of detail < 1288288221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, I think so too; I'm going to code it when I get botte going < 1288288223 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: A long time ago, me and a guy who I knew made it up. < 1288288230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: since it'll have the appropriate semantic logging machinery to do it easily :) < 1288288231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sansology? < 1288288232 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Less than four, your talk. Mine just four. < 1288288241 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Your talk much more hard. < 1288288247 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's like a cross between 1L and Sansism < 1288288255 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine very much more hard, true. < 1288288298 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D language with a BF-like tape, two commands: G rotates the IP left if the current tape element isn't 0, not-G corresponds to the BF commands + - < > going up down left right respectively < 1288288302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Have you seen the page of atom in four? < 1288288306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/txt/al.html < 1288288313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: quite a lot <-- hm? < 1288288317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of atom, adj. of physics) < 1288288321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even < 1288288322 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. And of [relativity] < 1288288325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of atom, n. of physics) < 1288288328 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the IP starts at the top-left going downwards, and the tape is bignum and initialised to 1 everywhere, I think it's TC, although am not completely sure < 1288288332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: See, I didn't cheat like you! :P < 1288288341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: "page of atom" -> "physics page" < 1288288353 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not implemented yet or even specced, but who cares, it's tarpitty enough that that description's all you need < 1288288356 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[cheat] < 1288288388 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's quite an entertaining read. It also has good rhythm, as a four-letter word can only be at most two syllables. < 1288288402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I say that with five dots to the word, [this would be much easier] < 1288288414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It would be nice to see Tom Lehrer do it. < 1288288428 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More easy it will be. Less Yoda like. < 1288288437 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how can people ask me about a lang, then not react at all when I tell them? < 1288288437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Okay, yes, it's a dumb idea, but just go with it." <-- this would be one of the spoken bits < 1288288440 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind-of disappointing < 1288288445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I didn't notice it yet < 1288288454 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288288460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I tend to mentally filter out only relevant comments when there's activity I'm participating in and then go back < 1288288467 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting < 1288288468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as not to be too slow to reply < 1288288473 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gone to get... food at the mid part of the day. (Blah!) < 1288288476 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to just participate in both conversations simultaneously < 1288288478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2D language with a BF-like tape, two commands: G rotates the IP left if the current tape element isn't 0, not-G corresponds to the BF commands + - < > going up down left right respectively < 1288288482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this already exists, I think < 1288288484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least *very* closely < 1288288494 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, 1L < 1288288500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1288288508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: presumably G is ascii 32 i.e. space < 1288288510 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to make 1L's instruction set a bit more logical < 1288288512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's fugly < 1288288529 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just use the 1L convention of "whatever's in the topleft of the program is one command" < 1288288532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: or perhaps G is the char < 1288288541 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but G == G is what Sansism does < 1288288548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and then not-G can be space < 1288288556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: G should be * i think, since it looks like an arrow pointing in all directions :) < 1288288565 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G is meant to look like a clockwise arrow < 1288288584 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it doesn't, blame Safalra, not me) < 1288288584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Mid time food? Ah yes, at noon. < 1288288592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it... yeah no :P < 1288288615 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks very like that in some fonts (IIRC The Impossible Quiz exploited that at one point) < 1288288632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you enabled *Flash* to play that? < 1288288637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: or just heard about it? :p < 1288288646 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I don't /play/ it < 1288288651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: how did I guess < 1288288671 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually, I do have Flash enabled, I just use an entirely separate browser for it < 1288288684 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only real way to prevent it completely dominating an attempt to use the Web normally < 1288288707 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(locked down Firefox, non-locked-down Epiphany) < 1288288742 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288288748 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Why not use U+2940, anticlockwise closed circle arrow? < 1288288771 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: presumably Safalra wanted to keep the code easy to parse < 1288288771 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Massive delay due to looking up character.) < 1288288775 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and involving Unicode is not that < 1288288813 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is reasonable to require a particular encoding for source files. < 1288288824 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even just supporting UTF-8 and UTF-16 would be reasonable. < 1288288830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: or you could just use bytes < 1288288837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have 30 fewer lines of code < 1288288842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have people actually program in it due to it not being hellish to do so < 1288288877 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, just use Emacs or something and write a sansism-mode that maps g to C-q 2 9 4 0 RET < 1288288892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1288288894 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellish isn't so much of an issue for me. Usability sort of goes out the window when considering esoteric languages. If it's usable, then bully. If not, well, I hadn't got my hopes up. < 1288288899 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: C-q in Emacs is annoying, it defaults to octal, most sane people customise it) < 1288288900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: esolang programs are rare enough :) < 1288288913 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have an esolangs.el on my laptop somwhere < 1288288918 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I've posted it to this channel before < 1288288929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1288288931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it once. < 1288288933 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1288288953 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Once as in once upon a time, or once as in one time? < 1288288977 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it wasn't even me who originally wrote intercal.el (or intercal.vim) < 1288288978 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*Multiple times upon a time?) < 1288288983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: both < 1288289040 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"once upon a time" is one of those phrases which defies the normal rules of grammar < 1288289043 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You remind me of how dangerous it can be to ask a computer scientist "or". < 1288289054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: not really, i just answered the truth < 1288289078 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, but I'm allowed to associate freely. < 1288289079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't "computer scientists" who do that, or at least if it is it's just CS morons pretending they know anything about formal logic < 1288289086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly just irritating people who don't have anything interesting to say :p < 1288289095 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if you're incredibly pedantic, and also happen to be a computer scientist? < 1288289097 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Japanese just has "mukashimukashi", meaning basically "in the past". < 1288289104 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/you're/I'm/ < 1288289105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: then you know that in language, or means XOR < 1288289107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not OR < 1288289112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: either that, or list elements < 1288289115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in a multiple-choice question) < 1288289116 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't actually mean either < 1288289126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, it means XOR but you can subvert it with "both" < 1288289130 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-2-148.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1288289132 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it creates a sort of ternary logic which includes "both" < 1288289136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, right < 1288289141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but whatever it is, "yes" is never the answer < 1288289143 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, false, file not found. < 1288289144 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is around the time that I mention that VHDL has 9 different logic levels) < 1288289159 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about a yes-or-no question? < 1288289175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: aaaaargh, stop it < 1288289177 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, with evincar around, I've discovered that my finger-memory uses a one-letter completion for "elliott" and "ehird" < 1288289178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you know what i mean < 1288289188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you're "ai" < 1288289191 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have had to correct the tab-complete a lot < 1288289198 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I nearly always do do two chars before completing < 1288289202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar is ev, it seems < 1288289207 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the issue is that e and l are at opposite ends of the keyboard < 1288289208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah is Sl < 1288289216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is Vo < 1288289218 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is your tab-complete case-sensitive? < 1288289218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey is cp < 1288289220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sense a pattern < 1288289229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm, no < 1288289234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: perhaps i don't always capitalise it < 1288289234 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, two characters is my minimum. < 1288289239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: introspection is impossible, dammit! stop it :) < 1288289258 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I find it unfortunate that I can't tab-complete long words while writing in English. < 1288289267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and everyone else < 1288289270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for me < 1288289279 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although editors can make your life easier. i18n^J, anyone? < 1288289279 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cool IRC client would display these unique prefixes on request < 1288289282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: time me: < 1288289282 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: so do I; I actually change nick for that reason on occasion < 1288289286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisestablishmentarianism < 1288289289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: time me again: < 1288289291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisestablishmentarianism < 1288289294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: time me a final time: < 1288289297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisestablishmentarianism < 1288289305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks clog
< 1288289311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: seriously? :D < 1288289315 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm... can you type that word faster or slower than you can copy-paste it? < 1288289321 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've done it in this channel before now < 1288289328 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can answer both yes and no to your question < 1288289332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: so, copy it and paste it after I press enter here? < 1288289333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisestablishmentarianism < 1288289336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used the mouse though < 1288289346 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in that I was serious in that I change nick for that reason on occasion, no, in that every time I have done the change I wasn't serious < 1288289354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, observation: it takes me about three seconds to type antidisestablishmentarianism and hit enter < 1288289358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four seconds when i'm not prepared < 1288289362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty good if you ask me < 1288289366 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1288289367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try for the record: < 1288289369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1288289374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false start :D < 1288289375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try for the record: < 1288289378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidsiestablishemtnarismn < 1288289379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1288289382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not my word < 1288289383 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, "whoops" is much shorter than "antidisestablishmentarianism" < 1288289390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let's try again. < 1288289392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisestablkuishemntanraism < 1288289394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ < 1288289398 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I spent a couple of seconds there correcting typos < 1288289410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ok:
< 1288289413 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(strange that I initially typed "connecting" there) < 1288289414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh < 1288289416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ok:
< 1288289419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisestablishmentariannsnim < 1288289420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1288289421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so close < 1288289430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three seconds all the same, though < 1288289432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ok:
< 1288289435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisestablishmentariasnnism < 1288289443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i am terrible at this < 1288289448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1288289450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisetsablishmentarianism < 1288289453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i giveu p < 1288289455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*give up < 1288289475 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I do better when I'm not watching the screen for some reason < 1288289499 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on my laptop, so I'm not even going to try. < 1288289504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am i (but i have a keyboard) < 1288289506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fop: < 1288289507 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give me a Model M and I'll beat any of you. < 1288289508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisestablishmentarianssims < 1288289512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fop: < 1288289514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisetsblishmentarianism < 1288289517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww < 1288289517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fop: < 1288289520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisetsbalishmentarianism < 1288289522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1288289523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fop: < 1288289525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisetsablishmentarianism < 1288289529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fop: < 1288289531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidisetwsabolishmentarianism < 1288289532 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harder to read than write antidisestablishmentarianism apparently < 1288289533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jesus < 1288289568 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whelp, time to move. < 1288289572 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I actually like my keys to have hardly any travel < 1288289577 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: All bee bark. < 1288289579 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this desktop keyboard, they go down a bit too far < 1288289631 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's a consequence of using laptops for ages < 1288289801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: there's a lot more to travel than one figure < 1288289821 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose so < 1288289837 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can I not give a nontechnical viewpoint on something? < 1288289840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: there's how much you can physically press the key down until it hits the bottom, there's how much you need to press until the key gets send to the computer, and on a tactile keyboard, there's how much you need to press before it pushes back (usually shortly after the key actuates) < 1288289849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, it's actually important :) < 1288289856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for usage < 1288289885 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before I spent a couple of years with a laptop, I spent years hotdesking < 1288289897 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm even more used to using whatever settings the computer I'm on happens to have < 1288289903 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose this is why I like sane defaults) < 1288289930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to think whether leaden will have any configuration
< 1288289931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so! < 1288289943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe indentation width. *maybe* < 1288289958 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's play the GUESS HOW RETARDED JAVASCRIPT IS GAME! < 1288289959 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8, no exceptions < 1288289964 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var x = 3; x.y = 4; < 1288289966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: even when using spaces? < 1288289970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yep, works < 1288289973 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Does this crash? 2) If not, what is the value of x.y? < 1288289978 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, don't you just type those by hand? < 1288289982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (1) no (2) 3? < 1288289985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and you know that I vehemently disagree with you on tabs < 1288289985 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just had a bug in our instrumentation framework related to this, made me remember :P < 1288289991 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope, undefined! < 1288289995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: so you're just trolling < 1288290000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: my next guess was 42 < 1288290002 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, perhaps < 1288290003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: then "the window object" < 1288290004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1288290023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: then "the exception that should be thrown when you assign a property to a number" < 1288290028 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288290029 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a genuine question here: say you're using 2-space indentation (for whatever reason), and your editor knows it; you want to indent a level, do you type space space or tab? < 1288290045 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT BRAUN AW20 WIRSTWATCH! < 1288290047 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: depends on the editor < 1288290047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Usually, my editor automatically indents at the start of a block for me so I don't have to type anything. < 1288290050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: But in that case, I'd type tab. < 1288290062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tab-the-key means "indent this". < 1288290064 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and the text < 1288290065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tab-the-character means flamewar. < 1288290069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space-the-character means flamewar. < 1288290073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space-the-key means "put a space in". < 1288290090 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vertical tabs forever, man < 1288290098 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to only use tab-the-key in Emacs to mean "recalculate this line's indentation", as that's what it means there; when typing indentation by hand, I tend to use space < 1288290114 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because it's a pain to keep adjusting editor settings for different tab widths < 1288290134 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when editing other people's code, you want to keep to their spacing conventions) < 1288290140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: In the previous version of leaden, tab did different things depending where in the line you were :) < 1288290143 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's not retarded, it's dynamic! Integer values are "black hole containers". < 1288290169 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: interesting issue: some of the code I edit (NetHack, C-INTERCAL, etc.) is generally written with the indent=4 spaces, 2 indents=1 tab convention < 1288290176 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet I change it entirely to spaces when I edit things < 1288290184 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You've just inspired me to change JavaScript. It's famous for basically never crashing (but instead causing crazy behavior); we can make this even more true by just replacing undefined with the window object! < 1288290192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: That's "emacs indentation". < 1288290193 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out whose philosophies I'm violating here < 1288290196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: It is *pure, liquid evil*. < 1288290201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: (what nethack does) < 1288290218 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to get involved in this discussion on tabs because everyone else is wrong. < 1288290220 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is it really Emacs' fault? I wouldn't be surprised if Hack predated Emacs < 1288290220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only does it make incorrect assumptions about tab -- I'm not interested ais523_, you're wrong, and besides it means "move to next 8-column", not "8 spaces", even historically -- < 1288290228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it also wastes space in the file with spaces for no apparent reason at all, < 1288290234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and completely misses the reason for using tabs (adjustable indentation). < 1288290236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's just... < 1288290238 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I agree with the move to next 8-column < 1288290238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody hates it. < 1288290240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1288290246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the one thing everyone in the spaces/tabs flamewar agrees on. < 1288290247 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason for using tabs is to make tables line up on a typewriter < 1288290248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs indentation is just lol. < 1288290261 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in QBASIC, tab = move to a multiple of 12, or was it 14?) < 1288290265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: http://www.emacswiki.org/pics/static/TabsSpacesBoth.png < 1288290267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: (relevant comic) < 1288290271 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it only ever meant "move to next 8-column" and everyone knew that and respected it and didn't change it, it would be acceptable. < 1288290274 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However. < 1288290282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and that's on *emacswiki* < 1288290292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it shouldn't mean that < 1288290297 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's what it means in all of GNU coreutils < 1288290304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is only ever meant YOUR MO- < 1288290310 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*If it < 1288290311 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was reading the docs for those recently) < 1288290313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the whole purpose of using tabs in a modern area -- and ais523_ just don't even bother replying, I'm uninterested -- is to mean "N spaces", where N is configurable as you desire < 1288290322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: not only does tab then mean "1 block of indentation", < 1288290326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's flexible too < 1288290333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and again, ais523_, totally not interested in a flamewar < 1288290335 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does tab in the middle of a line mean? < 1288290340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it means you're a moron < 1288290343 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So then it's a shitty form of RLE for text files. Not interested. < 1288290344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: (not you specifically) < 1288290355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Way to ignore half of my argument. < 1288290359 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one is a moron", I imagine < 1288290366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that's what i was thinking about typing :p < 1288290378 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You seemed to miss all of mine. < 1288290401 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I get elliott's point: the idea is that you treat tabs like HTML elements, and the editor like CSS < 1288290407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ...??? < 1288290413 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be OK, I suppose, if the world worked like that < 1288290416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: stop trying to argue for an argument you disagree with it makes no sense at all < 1288290427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the whole point is that it has literally no disadvantages over spaces; it's backwards-compatible with bad tools (they just show it as 8-column moves or 8 spaces or whatever), and in almost every modern editor you can set it to, say, four. < 1288290441 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the concept of tabs as semantically delimiting a block, and having a separate method of saying how to represent that onscreen < 1288290445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Over this, spaces... are less flexible for no reason and take up more space in the file for no reason. (yes filesize is irrelevant, but come on) < 1288290448 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The disadvantage is that tabs look different to different people. < 1288290460 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making text files that include them look different to different people. < 1288290460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I presume you mandate code be viewed in a certain font, too? < 1288290473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ban everyone from reformatting it and then formatting back when editing? < 1288290482 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, what would your opinion be of someone who formatted code with Comic Sans? < 1288290488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably tabs won't work in a modern idiotic corporate environment. < 1288290494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully I don't give a shit about such environments. < 1288290503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: if their code is good, they're just crazy; otherwise, they're an idiot < 1288290518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If whoever had first decided that ASCII needed a tab character had refrained from doing so, this conversation would not be happening :P < 1288290529 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there are some good coders who advocate a non-monospaced font for coding < 1288290531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: and we'd be worse-off < 1288290548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not interested in a flamewar, I'm just trying to fight off the idiotic ignorance that has set in after spaces somehow won < 1288290555 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, code needs a sort of general depythonisation < 1288290564 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, replace indentation with increase-indent, decrease-indent chars < 1288290571 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd make it diff much better, for one thing < 1288290587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: really code needs to stop being stored as bytes < 1288290597 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do appreciate Python's attempt to remove redundancy between the braces and indentation < 1288290600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm unconvinced on the benefits of AST editing, but c'mon, you don't have to store it like that.) < 1288290607 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd have been better to do it via removing indentation, than via removing braces < 1288290623 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sufficiently good editor should be able to reconstruct the indentation for editing purposes < 1288290635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: do you know how to feed apt-get/aptitude a text file instead of arguments? < 1288290640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, argument list limit. < 1288290656 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IIRC there is a way, but this computer runs CentOS so I can't read the manpage < 1288290679 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would using @ then a filename work? that's the usual workaround on DOS, some UNIX programs picked it up too < 1288290698 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was only pointing out a disadvantage, to correct your statement that there were no disadvantages. Not "mandating" anything. < 1288290720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm saying that the disadvantage isn't. < 1288290735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Files look different to different people! Indeed! But it's still indented properly, so what does it matter? < 1288290750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if they're the type to configure their editor, they'll see it in the indentation width they like, too. Kittens for everyone. < 1288290758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Two megabytes of arguments should be enough for everyone. (getconf ARG_MAX here.) < 1288290763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, perhaps some idiots with stupid editors will edit it and get the formatting badly, but they shouldn't be coding anyway. < 1288290766 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you don't know the indentation width readers will use, how can you prevent lines getting longer than 80 characters? < 1288290773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, I think it was another issue I had. < 1288290804 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, some programs even have blocks nested 10 deep, reading that with less or something would mean that the line didn't even start on the screen < 1288290804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: You can't. The best you can do is getting it 80 or under with an 8-width tab. But honestly, 80 characters is beyond outdated. Even vim can wrap text nicely now. < 1288290816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: And you can always use a tiny perl oneliner to do it for you if you're really using a physical vt100. < 1288290820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Programs shouldn't have blocks nested 10 deep. < 1288290830 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't change the fact that sometimes they do < 1288290835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1288290836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ sudo aptitude install -- $(cat packages) < 1288290836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ < 1288290845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: packages is a \n-separated list of packages in debian < 1288290848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Irrelevant. < 1288290848 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wrapping text changes the meaning if you have to-end-of-line comments < 1288290852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Such programs should be refactored. < 1288290863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I am uninterested in arguing about the formatting of badly-formatted programs. < 1288290866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and wrapping text changes the meaning if you have to-end-of-line comments < 1288290871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you provide an indicator in the gutter or similar < 1288290874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like emacs does < 1288290876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably vim too < 1288290933 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh, how do you insert beyond the last character of a line in vim? < 1288290944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: A < 1288290948 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's making it unreasonably difficult, as you can't move the cursor there < 1288290953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but, uh, nice wrapping isn't enabled by default in vim < 1288290954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: err < 1288290955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: $a < 1288290957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: is another way < 1288290958 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's ridiculously unvimlike to need a separate command < 1288290961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i inserts at point, a inserts after point < 1288290963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: A = $a < 1288290965 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK < 1288290970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's just a shortcut < 1288290986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: consider the duality ^i $a < 1288290992 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, no "text wrapped" indication as far as I can tell < 1288290996 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, reasonable < 1288291003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: also ^a $i which insert at start-but-one and end-but-one < 1288291004 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that I don't see why i and a aren't the same command < 1288291006 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :historical reasons? < 1288291010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i inserts at point, a inserts after point < 1288291012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert vs. append < 1288291016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, design reasons < 1288291022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they behave differently, for a reason < 1288291029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you can't move the cursor beyond the end of line because there's no character there < 1288291029 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point's always in two places one character apart? < 1288291036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in normal mode the cursor is always on a character < 1288291039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no < 1288291043 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if your document has no characters? < 1288291045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "a" inserts after the cursor < 1288291056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that doesn't mean the cursor's in a different place < 1288291062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: any more than / means that the cursor is everywhere at once < 1288291066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what if your document has no characters? < 1288291069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always has one \n :) < 1288291079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, well maybe not < 1288291083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after testing in vim) < 1288291085 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I'm just pointing out that thinking of the cursor as being on one individual character, rather than in one location between characters, is a bit of a weird design decision < 1288291090 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it needs special cases < 1288291094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not really < 1288291096 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even put the cursor on a \n in vim < 1288291098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it makes using vim nicer < 1288291099 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite it being a character < 1288291109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because vim is line-oriented < 1288291117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, *vi < 1288291123 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably even *ed < 1288291126 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cursor on a character is a selection < 1288291128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: remember, it's ed-extended plus graphical < 1288291132 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1288291134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: not in vim afaik < 1288291137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*vi < 1288291143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of in ex, I guess < 1288291150 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept of vi is a good one, and the way it was adapted to vim also good (although a little dubious in places) < 1288291157 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some of the historical hiccups are annoying < 1288291190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: a is not a historical hiccup! < 1288291193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a is intentional design < 1288291206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: sometimes I think you troll intentionally... < 1288291211 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, after finally managing to write multiple lines of text, it seems vim doesn't indicate that a line's wrapped at all < 1288291221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a is a special case!" "No, it's by design." "[ignores you, continues complaining about a being a special case]" < 1288291225 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm pretty good at unintentional trolling < 1288291227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway, after finally managing to write multiple lines of text, it seems vim doesn't indicate that a line's wrapped at all < 1288291228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default < 1288291230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *told* you that < 1288291231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right at the start < 1288291233 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, when I really want to like something, but nevertheless don't < 1288291235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you didn't listen# < 1288291238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/#$// < 1288291252 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for you claiming it's by design, I've seen no evidence of that, nor an obvious reason < 1288291260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it does < 1288291264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try line movement chars on the wrapped line < 1288291265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ^ and $ < 1288291268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ and $ being more reasonable < 1288291284 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no visual indication < 1288291288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: by default < 1288291297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is uninterested in this circular conversation; refuses to reply further
< 1288291306 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: here's one for you, then: why are dh and dl asymmetrical? < 1288291320 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dh deletes the char before the cursor, dl deletes the char under the cursor < 1288291341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I white-lied when I said the cursor is on a character, the cursor is actually between two characters, i think < 1288291343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Because 'd' mirrored is 'b' and 'h' has a little line drawn off the backwards 'l' < 1288291346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I < 1288291353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, indeed < 1288291359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it is before the highlighted character < 1288291374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "set showbreak=x" will put 'x' -- typically in a different color -- in front of lines that are wrapped continuations of the previous line; but I'm not sure if there's anything to indicate it at the end of the line. < 1288291400 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's what I was suggesting would make more sense; in which case, why can't you put the cursor after the last character (when not in insert mode, which you shouldn't be in if you're moving the cursor)? < 1288291416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: because there's no character after it to be the character that dl would delete < 1288291420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it can't be before nothing! < 1288291434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(empty file *is* a special case, I think, but an unimportant one; I'd have to check nvi source to be sure) < 1288291436 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dl should probably delete the newline in that context < 1288291441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: newline isn't part of the line < 1288291443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi is line-oriented < 1288291445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no newlines < 1288291449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a list of lines < 1288291460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: this is also why you can't backspace beyond a line by default in vim < 1288291467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can make it with a config option that everyone uses) < 1288291482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: try it; iabc[n]def[backspace past def] < 1288291489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where [n] is newline < 1288291506 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't see any reason to doubt you on that < 1288291518 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm not disputing the reasons, just the reasons for the reasons < 1288291518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from my general untrustworthiness? :) < 1288291556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of vi, % is really nice and leaden should really have it and holy shit my laptop isn't plugged in < 1288291557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Also, ":set virtualedit=onemore" to make it possible to move the cursor to that magical place. It may make other things break, though. < 1288291603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also not very 'vi'ish.) < 1288291629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what to bind % to in leaden
< 1288291635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vi %, that is < 1288291647 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is leaden an editor you're writing? < 1288291664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: leaden's an editor i wrote and then lost < 1288291675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now i'm trying to find the code and becoming increasingly resigned to the fact that i'm going to have to rewrite it < 1288291687 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1288291691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it had nice features, like no save function < 1288291705 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'sa feature? < 1288291713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes (note: it still saves files) < 1288291719 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, did it constantsave with backups? < 1288291730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: constantsave without backups; you use a VCS < 1288291735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: which is also why Ctrl+S means "VCS commit" < 1288291740 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1288291741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: (prompting you for the summary) < 1288291746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's a VCS-usage motivator :) < 1288291753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also supports using it with a terminal < 1288291755 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... eww. < 1288291758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can test changes immediately < 1288291768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: why does everyone think they're the target market for my software? < 1288291768 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how would that work with git? the staging area would seem to screw things up < 1288291771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't. deal with it < 1288291786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: eh? you edit the file in your working copy, and it saves it automatically < 1288291788 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd work pretty amazingly with scapegoat, though, if I ever get round to writing it < 1288291790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when you're happy, Ctrl+S < 1288291794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which commits < 1288291798 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why are you mentioning it here if the only person you want comments from is you? < 1288291806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: note "ais523_:" < 1288291812 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOUCHE SIR < 1288291815 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, what would control-S do? stage, then commit? what if you have another file edited at the time? what if you have anoher file staged? < 1288291815 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back to paying no attention :P
< 1288291817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: perhaps if "... eww" had any reasoning I would reply to it, but, it didn't < 1288291826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: It would just run "git commit" with your summary. < 1288291833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but yes, if you have edited other files they'll be committed too < 1288291837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it does have backups in a way, anyway < 1288291842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has unlimited undo < 1288291846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the undo persists across program invocations < 1288291854 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be kind of pointless, given that if you're just doing "git commit" then the file you just edited isn't actually committed < 1288291855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's saved in ~/.cache/ or whatever the directory is these days) < 1288291865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: git commit -a < 1288291866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the idea < 1288291870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: or possibly just git commit file < 1288291876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to see which is more useful in practice before I decide < 1288291879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*practise < 1288291894 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a different tool < 1288291899 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would make scapegoat really work amazingly would be if it was integrated with the editor so that it actually knew what, say, had been copied, etc., so it could do merges correctly < 1288291906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: probably more likely -a, since you shouldn't really commit to anything you're doing if you can't run it locally and have it work < 1288291906 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the editor could just use it as undo info < 1288291912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which might be why you don't want -a, only one file works) < 1288291913 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what it is yet, but it's something between a "file explorer" and grep < 1288291920 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fractal VCS, in that it changes are made out of lumps of smaller changes < 1288291948 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eventually you get down to the level of "this addition of the string 'hello' was made by adding 'h' 'e' 'l' 'l' 'o'" < 1288291955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: graphical clicky file list with backwards/forwards/up functions and also a small terminal underneath that lets you select files and have them become part of the argument list, or if you type * e.g. all the files in the upper pane are highlighted? < 1288291958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's something i've wanted a while < 1288291961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wanted for a while < 1288291969 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it probably still does diffs at line granularity, because below that merging gets really counterintuitive sometimes < 1288291975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'd be happy to add scapegoat support whenever it comes out :P < 1288291991 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean, I'm surprised our visions are so similar on this < 1288292002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1288292018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: technically i stole that vision from yaedit, which did the save-on-every-keypress thing but not the VCS thing, which is just stupid < 1288292038 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the fractal structure, because it really cuts down on the number of commands you need to manage things < 1288292040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the author says you're supposed to use it with a terminal, so you could commit there, still. < 1288292050 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making a tag and making a commit are exactly the same concept, for instance < 1288292060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: please tell me commands take a --zoom argument which tells them how many layers of fractalness to descend before operating < 1288292061 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same concept as saving a file < 1288292075 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't quite decided on the syntax for that yet < 1288292083 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'll certainly be able to do something like that < 1288292090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: perhaps nested parens! :D < 1288292102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ scapegoat '((((commit))))' < 1288292106 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I... don't think that's it exactly < 1288292117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It would be cool, though. Gotta admit that. < 1288292126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also do things like, uh < 1288292130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find ... | show < 1288292134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have those appear in the top pane. < 1288292141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Really I just piggybacked on your idea to plug my idea. < 1288292153 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I notice you do that quite a bit. < 1288292179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I don't know whether to be offended or flattered. < 1288292181 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ scapegoat '****commit' seems like a potential idea < 1288292192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that makes me think of a correction < 1288292196 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, really, it'd need more information about what to do with the argument < 1288292200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'd just use a repeated flag < 1288292201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: say, < 1288292207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ scapegoat -zzzz commit < 1288292209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for zoom < 1288292219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the code for -z handling is zoom++ < 1288292223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, this scapegoat thingy sounds awesome < 1288292249 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the concept of -z would be "instead of operating on this change, operate on all changes it bundles" < 1288292255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: quick, explain it to Vorpal more so he starts hating it < 1288292262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, the concept of -z would be "instead of operating on this change, operate on all changes it bundles" < 1288292263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1288292266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then repeat it, etc. < 1288292270 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1288292272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, but I don't think it would be easy to use " $ scapegoat '****commit' seems like a potential idea" would work very well unless there are very few layers < 1288292290 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there wouldn't be many layers at all, I imagine < 1288292302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: maybe give -z a cousin, z^ < 1288292302 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you probably wouldn't want to mass-operate on the lower layers, you just could if you wanted to < 1288292303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-z^3 < 1288292304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1288292316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, ah then it could work just fine, otherwise you would run into the issue "how many of those * are there" < 1288292320 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think what I'm thinking of is basically incremental grep -r, with the results immediately displayed in something like a folding editor pane < 1288292338 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apart from the "incremental" Emacs almost does that already < 1288292338 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also throw some directory lists in there < 1288292350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ah, like, show a file tree? < 1288292354 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yeah, i sort of thought it did < 1288292355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well that's a leaden feature! :P < 1288292363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaden is basically two tightly-integrated programs < 1288292367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- a file tree viewer < 1288292368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- an editor < 1288292378 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- a Towers of Hanoi simulation < 1288292378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, all i ever did was the start of the latter one < 1288292387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, XD < 1288292394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but hey, it automatically inserted and removed 4-space indentations for python code very early on :) < 1288292401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it self-hosted after it was like < 1288292402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 lines < 1288292411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did all its development in itself after that until I lost it) < 1288292422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was fun when i accidentally deleted huge swathes of code, thank god for not closing it and Ctrl+Z < 1288292444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hadn't persisted undos yet :) < 1288292444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pesumably you kept it in git? < 1288292448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1288292455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would also be nice to have a shell that automatically captured the result of each command in a buffer, and let you navigate through buffers. emacs does this too, i bet < 1288292456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rarely version-control things until they're at about 1.0 < 1288292459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not 1.0 < 1288292462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, like, the first useful release < 1288292462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh < 1288292463 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: M-x shell < 1288292472 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty good, but its command repeat is somewhat suspect < 1288292478 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh curse it all, don't make me use emacs < 1288292483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: especially as i basically hate the usual workflow of version control which is *why* i'm using leaden as a vehicle to fix that < 1288292486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm the kind of guy who starts by creating a repo, then starts coding < 1288292494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am well aware < 1288292494 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm addressing the Fates, not anyone here) < 1288292499 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for bonus points, the same mode works just fine, for say, ghci) < 1288292503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is merely one of numerous thinsg horribly wrong with you :p < 1288292506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1288292516 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one 'lab' repo. < 1288292524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not as well as inferior-haskell thouh < 1288292525 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once projects mature, they get their own repo. < 1288292525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1288292530 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists? < 1288292537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: so does haskell-mode! < 1288292537 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must try it some time < 1288292539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haskell-indentation-mode! < 1288292543 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about haskell-mode < 1288292551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: try C-x C-l sometime < 1288292552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was < 1288292554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a haskell buffer < 1288292557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inferior-haskell will pop up < 1288292559 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably C-c C-l < 1288292561 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin', i need no encouragement to use version control. I've been burnt enough times by disk failures etc. < 1288292571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's not *that* good, you can get it to hang if you C-c C-l after trying to and getting a syntax error < 1288292580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but it does highlight errors in red and let you click them to go to that location in the file < 1288292584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hang = hang emacs) < 1288292587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(solution: don't do that) < 1288292589 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x flymake-mode? < 1288292596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: with haskell? good luck! < 1288292606 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works with C, somehow < 1288292607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you probably want http://projects.haskell.org/haskellmode-emacs/ < 1288292611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not whatever packaged version < 1288292623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, what bugs me with M-x shell is that up key doesn't go up in history < 1288292634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: install instructions: put it somewhere, (load "THERE/haskell-site-file") < 1288292635 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, flymake-mode plus clang could be impressive < 1288292635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (add-hook 'haskell-mode-hook 'turn-on-haskell-doc-mode) < 1288292636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (add-hook 'haskell-mode-hook 'turn-on-haskell-indentation) < 1288292641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that turns on all the fancy things < 1288292646 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as I said, its command repeat is rather suspect < 1288292649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doc-mode just shows you the signatures of functions in the modeline as you type them < 1288292652 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, indeed < 1288292657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indentation does the super-fancy indentation which most people love and some people hate < 1288292662 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my packaged haskell-mode does both of those < 1288292664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: press tab to cycle between possible indentations) < 1288292667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ok < 1288292672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: a lot of packages are out of date < 1288292678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: anyway, yes, C-c C-l should Just Work < 1288292680 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it isn't the modeline, it's the minibuffer < 1288292684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"- Interaction with inferior Haskell interpreter: just hit C-c C-z or C-c C-l." < 1288292686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or C-c C-z! < 1288292689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: er, right < 1288292692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i mean < 1288292701 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modeline is plausible in that context, just wrong < 1288292704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, also pgup/pgdown maps to emacs, not to shell < 1288292711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I use them for "search in history" < 1288292717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it would be perverse to do that in the modeline :) < 1288292729 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: control-R makes a better "search in history" in bash, at least < 1288292737 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and happily works in M-x shell as well < 1288292756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, um, why is it better? < 1288292757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone: do you have leaden's source code? < 1288292766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I ever put it on the interwebs :( < 1288292773 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: incremental search < 1288292779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\e[5~": history-search-backward < 1288292779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\e[6~": history-search-forward < 1288292785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I'm used that that < 1288292787 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus repeated tapping of control-R to get a different entry from history < 1288292798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, repeated tapping pgup is easier < 1288292812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1288292819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's almost as stupid as liking numpad in nethack < 1288292821 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't, the pgup key is tiny and confined to a small corner of the laptop < 1288292824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I find it easier. *shurg* < 1288292826 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I haven't even memorised wher eit is < 1288292828 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*where it is < 1288292833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, on a laptop yes < 1288292836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't, the pgup key is normal-sized and confined to the Block of Nearly Useless Keys in the middle < 1288292838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a full size PC keyboard < 1288292839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the keyboard < 1288292843 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I press /SysRq/ more often than I press PgUp < 1288292845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, counting the main part as the same size as the numpad < 1288292850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I don't < 1288292853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I like where pgup/down is on this keyboard < 1288292862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, counting the main part as the same size as the numpad < 1288292864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1288292867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ctrl win menu alt spaaaaaaaaaace altgr pgup pgdown ctrl < 1288292868 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on this desktop keyboard I happen to be using, it's in a pretty weird place < 1288292879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's nice because i can easily scroll through things with my thumb < 1288292882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without moving my hand < 1288292883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is really nice < 1288292891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it a lot in IRC to see more scrollback < 1288292894 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the Block Of Nearly Useless Keys, but in the centre-right (it's, abnormally, a 3x3 block) < 1288292905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to hit it a lot by mistake but I've adjusted now < 1288292921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find pgup/pgdown useful but Ctrl+R is easier to type, yse. < 1288292923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, what are the 3 extra keys then? < 1288292923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes. < 1288292925 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above the Block in question is a Block Of Totally Useless Keys, with icons of Internet Explorer (6, by the look of it), Outlook Express, and a moon < 1288292941 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the three extra keys in the Block are used for the keys normally above the Block < 1288292950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: we need a better key-combo notation, one that handles both "press this *after* this" and "press this *with* this", and also handles pathological things like control minus and alt minus well < 1288292953 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, End is physically touching Up, presumably because the Block is bigger < 1288292954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, moon would be suspend to disk presumably < 1288292959 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably to RAM < 1288292963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, or that < 1288292967 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other two have obvious meanings, just probably not while running Linux < 1288292972 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION presses the IE key to see what happens
< 1288292978 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, apparently < 1288292991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: also, which is short to type < 1288293020 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using - for "simultaneously" and , for "consecutively", and parens < 1288293036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: with simultaneously, how do you notate control minus? < 1288293037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control--? < 1288293039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just confusing < 1288293051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: or, with a + system, control plus < 1288293052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control++ < 1288293062 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "to shut down my old laptop by hand, type alt-((fn-sysrq),r,(fn-sysrq),e,(fn-sysrq),i,(fn-sysrq),s,(fn-sysrq),u,(fn-sysrq),b) < 1288293064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "Control -" and "Control +" are nicer, but that leaves the problem of sequential keys < 1288293073 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used control-- because it's unambiguous < 1288293090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : e.g. "to shut down my old laptop by hand, type alt-((fn-sysrq),r,(fn-sysrq),e,(fn-sysrq),i,(fn-sysrq),s,(fn-sysrq),u,(fn-sysrq),b) < 1288293093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is perverse :D < 1288293096 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, this is why putting sysrq behind fn is really annoying < 1288293107 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me ages to find that /particular/ way of typing it < 1288293109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that's wrong < 1288293115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to hold down sysrq while typing such commands < 1288293116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1288293117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1288293122 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, you have to hold down alt < 1288293125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: also, it isn't fn-sysrq < 1288293125 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can release sysrq < 1288293131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fn-whatever-you-use-with-fn-to-get-sysrq < 1288293140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but you can release sysrq ;; oh, emergency rebooting now will be so much easier :D < 1288293148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: also, yours doesn't shut down < 1288293149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, sysrq is a bit buggered on my laptop in that respect too. < 1288293150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it restarts < 1288293154 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1288293161 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace Boring with Ominous for a shutdown < 1288293166 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, but shouldn't using prtsc work, since normally they are on the same key < 1288293172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i... < 1288293175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have mnemonics? < 1288293175 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often not on a laptop < 1288293178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a mnemonic? < 1288293183 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't need the mnemonic < 1288293189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the mnemonic> < 1288293191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mnemonic? < 1288293193 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, knowing the command sequence makes the mnemonic easier to memorise < 1288293202 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the usual Raising Elephants Is So Utterly Boring one < 1288293210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just memorised REISUB, pronounced "reesub" or "raysub" < 1288293218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took... zero effort :p < 1288293231 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I encountered the mnemonic before I encountered the sequence < 1288293246 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the first mnemonic I encountered had S before E, but I dislike that order of doing things < 1288293257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in fact, knowing the command sequence makes the mnemonic easier to memorise <-- thus the mnemonic can be considered rather failed? < 1288293261 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if a program decides to write autosave data to disk in response to SIGTERM? < 1288293274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm, it seems that you should probably press i a few seconds after e < 1288293277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually type it out as one word < 1288293282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :albeit not quite as quickly < 1288293285 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should wait a few seconds between every pair < 1288293287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid errors < 1288293288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ha < 1288293292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, i've never had an issue < 1288293294 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except arguably U to B, because setting disks readonly doesn't take long < 1288293297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cowboy
< 1288293300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: surely not after R < 1288293302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an instant operation < 1288293310 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always break to press control-alt-f1 after R < 1288293312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Call oom_kill, which kills a process to alleviate an OOM condition" < 1288293314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: dare me to do this now < 1288293316 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to see if it was the keyboard controller that was borked < 1288293320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see what dies! < 1288293329 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you're not doing anything important, you may as well see what happens < 1288293334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: certainly < 1288293335 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure you save your work first, etc. etc. < 1288293339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION alt+sysrq+f
< 1288293348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: nothing happened; how disappointing < 1288293353 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check syslog to see what it killed < 1288293367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oct 28 19:15:18 dinky kernel: [10781.698175] SysRq : This sysrq operation is disabled. < 1288293367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, personally I remember it by the order of the commands, like raw "tErm kIll Sync Unmount reBoot" < 1288293369 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe nothing /visible/ happened < 1288293373 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1288293373 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I find that easier < 1288293377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: thank you, big brother linux! < 1288293380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: can you really not memorise "reisub"? < 1288293382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err " ended up in wrong place < 1288293383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your memory is broken < 1288293386 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it takes random letters from each word < 1288293392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well it would be easy, but also pointless < 1288293402 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't even memorised the reason for the letters, just "E = terminate", etc < 1288293406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, only for term and kill < 1288293408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: how on earth and why was that disabled, I wonder? < 1288293418 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, would you /guess/ that Shutdown was O? < 1288293430 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder too < 1288293430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, no < 1288293431 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which distro? < 1288293436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Debian < 1288293437 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I take it from context you're on Linux) < 1288293437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523_: how on earth and why was that disabled, I wonder? <-- /proc/sys I presume < 1288293448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes around /proc/sys
< 1288293451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot how awful /proc is < 1288293454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, check sysctl.conf < 1288293458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or sysctl.d < 1288293459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:/proc/sys/kernel$ cat sysrq < 1288293460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :438 < 1288293461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I BET IT'S A BITMASK < 1288293462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is usually there < 1288293468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what < 1288293472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen it that way before < 1288293479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just poking around < 1288293491 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitmask seems plausible for such an apparently random number < 1288293495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sysctl kernel.sysrq < 1288293495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel.sysrq = 1 < 1288293495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nothing sysrq in my sysctl.conf < 1288293501 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a *boolean* < 1288293511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wow @ sysctl, you use a program to do cat and echo for you? < 1288293519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a sad summary of current unix practice < 1288293520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shorter to type :P < 1288293522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*practise < 1288293543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also on *bsd /proc/sys doesn't exist < 1288293545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux: manages to copy a plan 9 concept (/proc), take away all the useful things from it, and then get rid of the whole point of it < 1288293559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just uses /sys
< 1288293569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, /sys doesn't have this < 1288293573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't the same thing < 1288293573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joy < 1288293583 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I disagree; linux /proc might not work as well as plan9 /proc, but it's still useful < 1288293593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, indeed < 1288293598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, ok, but vastly less so < 1288293598 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, it's responsible for ensuring that all inodes have filenames < 1288293611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, what? < 1288293613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION enables sysrq
< 1288293621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: think about it < 1288293628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: please try and make him figure it out for once... < 1288293642 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, am I not allowed to be helpful? < 1288293656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not for something so easily figurable out, surely? Vorpal asks what every five minutes < 1288293656 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are we making Vorpal figure out now? < 1288293659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is an obvious solution, but that seems a rather stupid definition < 1288293667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: how /proc makes sure every inode has a filename < 1288293669 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why /proc is responsible for ensuring that all inodes have filenames < 1288293670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you refer to /proc//fd/ < 1288293675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a sort of a silly boolean-bitmask hybrid: 0 is off, 1 means "all values enabled", and any other non-zero values work as a bitmask. < 1288293677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are symlinks < 1288293678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's stupid because... because it's stupid!" < 1288293680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actual filenames < 1288293682 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288293688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't actually work out at all < 1288293688 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they're only sort-of symlinks < 1288293691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ok, i've enabled it now < 1288293692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to test < 1288293696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288293707 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I have no idea why or how it does that, so OK. < 1288293707 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288293708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, yes but they have different inode numbers afaik < 1288293710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what are the chances? < 1288293712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it killed *xchat* < 1288293715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they *couldn't* have the same ones < 1288293720 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the file's been deleted, they stat as broken symlinks, but can be read from anyway < 1288293725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: :-D < 1288293726 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't seem that implausible < 1288293731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: time to try again < 1288293733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, true < 1288293735 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured what had happened straight off < 1288293737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oct 28 19:21:49 dinky kernel: [11172.905065] Killed process 1939 (pidgin) < 1288293754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oct 28 19:22:05 dinky kernel: [11188.911397] Killed process 1928 (xfce4-menu-plug) < 1288293764 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using xchat and pidgin simultaneously? < 1288293771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, pidgin is beyond awful for IRC < 1288293773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, but they can't have the same inodes since they if the same inode number existed on two different file systems and both were open, /proc would break badly < 1288293784 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: *I* am too :) < 1288293785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus not all inodes have names < 1288293785 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know people who use it on Windows; it doesn't seem as bad as mIRC < 1288293790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what? < 1288293793 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, irssi, not xchat < 1288293796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: mIRC is a pretty damn good client < 1288293800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pidgin is utterly terrible < 1288293807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: pidgin treats IRC rooms like small IM-protocol group convos < 1288293814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just hilariously brokem < 1288293815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*broken < 1288293815 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC's really annoying for anyone else in the channel at the same time < 1288293819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1288293827 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonstandard formatting < 1288293829 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it keeps barfing up green shit, man < 1288293831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1288293840 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it keeps sending random control codes followed by numbers < 1288293841 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to see a doctor about that < 1288293847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, oh that. Only due to control codes < 1288293848 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by setting a white foreground < 1288293855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: maybe ancient versions... < 1288293863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, and user stupidity < 1288293867 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :white foreground on colored background = what client encourages people to think that's a good idea? < 1288293870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'll chalk that down to user stupidity < 1288293875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it doesn't! < 1288293877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirc has never done that for me < 1288293881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you're *very* good at FUD < 1288293888 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been in channels where nearly all the users are mIRC users < 1288293891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you not immediately attribute things to other things without making sure first? < 1288293910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hasn't ever been sending color codes for me either without specifically asking for them. Various mIRC *scripts* are another thing, though. < 1288293915 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the people ask for them < 1288293925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: then those people are stupid < 1288293928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEBKAC < 1288293940 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, why does it have an option to send codes that only other people who use the same client understand? and assume that other clients will interpret it the same way? < 1288293943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, pebkac on google images gives userfriendly comics < 1288293948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: mirc colours is oooold < 1288293950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 90s old < 1288293953 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between keyboard and computer < 1288293959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: *and chair :p < 1288293967 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine's funnier < 1288293975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I totally sit in front of my keyboard < 1288293987 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if that can be fixed by holding the keyboard behind me, so that it's the air that's to blame? < 1288293989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah that is a problem right there! < 1288293998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1288294003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ergonomics joke. < 1288294012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, your joke is "that's not ergonomic!" < 1288294014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're hilarious. < 1288294016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly hilarious < 1288294019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shining wit < 1288294042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "problem exist [in the fact in] sitting between keyboard and chair" < 1288294048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1288294051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard and computer < 1288294053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1288294062 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1288294065 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is actually a valid pun < 1288294072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, indeed! < 1288294073 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just requires so much explanation to get, that it probably wasn't worth it < 1288294080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if humour on a level as terrible as Vorpal's is genetic < 1288294089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, i had better start promoting eugenics in sweden < 1288294102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [takes it seriously] < 1288294112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: are you going to /nick ais523? like ever? :p < 1288294125 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but then the wireless might start working and kick me off from this connection < 1288294138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1288294140 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, I actually stopped trying after an hour or so) < 1288294143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: x_x < 1288294159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's unlikely to do that if your client doesn't automatically ghost < 1288294164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it would be feasible to become a citizen of every country that allows for multiple citizenship. < 1288294180 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know it doesn't; instead, it'd pick the name ais523_ < 1288294183 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would just be confusing < 1288294186 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because /I'm/ ais523_ < 1288294187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that would certainly be interesting < 1288294191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I... hate you < 1288294192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: >_< < 1288294193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1288294213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention awesome. < 1288294227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed, can you make a list of which countries these are < 1288294228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Show me your passport?" "Which? I've got dozens!" < 1288294256 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be quite hard < 1288294262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you would need a suitcase for just the passports! < 1288294271 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my friends at school was simultaneously New Zealandish and English < 1288294275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:38:13 there's a rather clear separation into the 99% of esolangs that are fun syntax ideas, and the 3% that someone actually put some thought into. < 1288294281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote there's a rather clear separation into the 99% of esolangs that are fun syntax ideas, and the 3% that someone actually put some thought into. < 1288294283 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :249| there's a rather clear separation into the 99% of esolangs that are fun syntax ideas, and the 3% that someone actually put some thought into. < 1288294305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: New... Zealand...ish? < 1288294306 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and she talked about the difficulty of trying to maintain the genetic balance of nationalities within her family so as to not lose one citizenship or the other < 1288294321 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, any alternative I could come up with would have been misleading < 1288294328 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just tried to be precise but incorrect < 1288294328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Uuuuh, that's not how citizenship works. < 1288294335 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: apparently, it is in New Zealand < 1288294346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: LOL NEW ZEALAND CUR-AAZEY < 1288294422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New Zealand citizenship is jus solis, and UK citizenship is jus sanguinis and jus solis. < 1288294441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs HackEgo
< 1288294443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :French citizenship is au jus. < 1288294451 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does that mean < 1288294473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Citizenship by being born there for jus solis, citizenship by being born a decendant for jus sanguinis. < 1288294480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1288294499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and what about citizenship by moving there and applying for it? < 1288294505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's naturalisation. < 1288294508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jus pretty please < 1288294513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1288294526 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Modification of jus soli has been criticized as contributing to economic inequality, the perpetuation of unfree labour from a helot underclass, and statelessness. < 1288294527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was only discussing automatic forms of citizenship. < 1288294533 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you actually made a funny joke! < 1288294536 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how rare < 1288294555 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect elliot considers eir own joke to be unfunny in that context < 1288294559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one wasn't funny < 1288294562 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*elliott < 1288294563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : French citizenship is au jus. < 1288294564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was < 1288294565 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I do < 1288294571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, New Zealand also has jus soli citizenship. < 1288294579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so why did you say it < 1288294588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe i wanted to bait you into saying that < 1288294591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, jus sanguinis... < 1288294602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt it. Besides I stand for my point of view < 1288294612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But limited. < 1288294623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, it wouldn't be too hard to pass down UK and New Zealand citizenship. < 1288294638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about Sweden? (And where do you find this info) < 1288294666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Wikipedia! < 1288294666 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: presumably one of the restrictions against citizenship tourism was that if you married someone of a different nationality and your parents didn't come from there, you lost it again < 1288294672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1288294675 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Wikipedia was an obvious place to check < 1288294676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay < 1288294682 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I went there without being prompted < 1288294734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is someone's (very vague) plan for getting a 13-fold citizenship without naturalization (just some selective breeding) at http://archives.conlang.info/bhi/dardan/dhiaghaencal.html but I haven't seen any actual attempts at. < 1288294758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Actually, the restrictions against citizenship tourism are, in New Zealand, as with most other places, that the citizenship gets transferred by descent if one parent is not citizen soley by descent, except if there would be no other citizenship. < 1288294771 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need to find a large number of famillies willing to crossbread to make it work, wouldn't you? < 1288294790 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm, perhaps my friend's parents were just worried about the nationality of her children < 1288294796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Well, in that plan "parent 2: born in Taiwan, parents a) Russian and b) Romania-living ethnic German" might not be completely trivial to find. < 1288294814 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could presumably engineer it < 1288294820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wow... complicated stuff. Just out of curiosity, why do you want to < 1288294821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know? Intellectual exercise?" < 1288294822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht! < 1288294826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: And with the UK, if you wouldn't get the citizenship automatically, due to your parents being citizens soley by descent, you can *register* as a citizen. < 1288294829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, actually a ridiculously comprehensive getaway plan < 1288294829 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd need quite a lot of families to cooperate into arranged marriages < 1288294835 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there's even an exam < 1288294844 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the subject of quite a bit of public ridicule at the time, IIRC < 1288294864 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays they purport to teach citizenship in schools < 1288294865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Which consists of: living in the UK for 5 years, and informing the government that you are now a citizen. < 1288294871 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody takes it seriously, not even the teachers < 1288294882 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are you sure that hasn't been changed since the source you're reading? < 1288294883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no, they don't, that's pshserhe now i think < 1288294888 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in the last few years it changed, IIRC < 1288294897 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PSE/PSHE and Citizenship were different subjects < 1288294903 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, are < 1288294909 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is after I left school, so quite recently < 1288294914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Personal Social Horticultural Seafaring Ecclesiastical Rambunctious Health Education) < 1288294928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Uuh, I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. < 1288294934 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_citizenship#British_citizenship_by_naturalisation < 1288294945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Registration is different from naturalisation. < 1288294948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: thought: DOS would be so much nicer without that pesky shell and API < 1288294957 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a fun syntax idea
< 1288294962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: like, if it was just something that could load and execute a COM from an FS, and had filesystem routines. < 1288294969 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah; seems you have to be a British national already to pull that one off < 1288294982 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it has an interrupt for malloc < 1288294989 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one always amused me < 1288294996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: see, this is why DOS sucks! < 1288294998 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because I learnt other OSes before I learnt DOS) < 1288294999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Or a member of a few different other things. < 1288295004 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wait, why is that amusing < 1288295021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: DOS ought to be: a driver for floppies and disks, filesystem routines for these, and a COM loader < 1288295021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Such as being a child of a British citizen. < 1288295027 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than interrupts being generally amusing < 1288295028 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: API level clash < 1288295029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it would be the perfect OS < 1288295041 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, OSes like UNIX have sbrk() as the system call, not malloc() itself < 1288295067 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: presumably, you could still use BIOS interrupts for I/O, etc? < 1288295070 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I... suppose. One of several distinctions that DOS just kind of... obviates. < 1288295075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yep < 1288295082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: or, more likely, just use the DOS routines < 1288295098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it can provide a drive access API, a filesystem API, and a COM loader API; just nothing else < 1288295115 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could strip down FreeDOS fairly easily < 1288295116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: a command shell could add screen printing functions if it wanted, I suppose < 1288295123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but otherwise you'd just use VGA memory < 1288295126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is trivial < 1288295128 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems you can renounce British citizenship whenever you want < 1288295138 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028202.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1288295141 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by declaring it to the Home Secretary < 1288295144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: indeed < 1288295150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but not quite < 1288295155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you have to have citizenship of another state to do so < 1288295163 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then put FreeDOS into Bochs and then turn that into a web browser where pages are boot disk images < 1288295163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Also fun, it's really easy to pull off Irish/UK dual citizenship. Be born in North Ireland, and then go to Ireland and perform an action that only Irish citizens can perform. < 1288295166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you couldn't just go to the home secretary now and say "yo, decitizenise me" < 1288295173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd go "no ud have nowher to go" < 1288295173 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, just intend to get it in the next 6 months < 1288295176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: really? < 1288295177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: omg < 1288295178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Thereby instantly becoming a citizen of Ireland. < 1288295180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i can become stateless < 1288295184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO AWESOME < 1288295185 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your citizenship bid fails, you get UK citizenship back < 1288295188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oh < 1288295196 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becoming stateless is not particularly awesome, btw < 1288295200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but what if you just keep applying for, say, kazakhergidstan citizenship < 1288295202 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it has its sticky bit set < 1288295206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keep renouncing UK citizenship < 1288295212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be a citizen for, like, one day every six months < 1288295213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THEN < 1288295220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and then put FreeDOS into Bochs and then turn that into a web browser where pages are boot disk images < 1288295221 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they don't have to give it back the second time < 1288295223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you :) < 1288295228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: awesome < 1288295230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The Japanese consititution has enumerated rights. Among these rights is the right to cease to be a Japanese citizen for *any reason at all*. < 1288295238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what i'd really like to be is an EU citizen < 1288295240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't do that < 1288295243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1288295245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a European citizen < 1288295245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You are an EU citizen. < 1288295249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but < 1288295250 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: couldn't you then legally ask for asylum in Japan, if you were a Japanese citizen beforehand? < 1288295251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no other citizenship < 1288295256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes. < 1288295264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. wherever you are in the EU, you are the type of citizen EU citizens are if they go abroad to the EU now < 1288295266 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something very screwy about this < 1288295266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: You can also get citizenship back instantly. < 1288295300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so, hypothetically, if you wanted to commit a crime and Japan lacked laws to punish foreigners who commit crimes... < 1288295310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you hardly need to hack freedos, though < 1288295312 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"From 1 January 2004, all new applicants for British citizenship by naturalisation or registration aged 18 or over if their application is successful must attend a citizenship ceremony and either make an affirmation or take an oath of allegiance to the monarch, and also make a pledge to the United Kingdom." < 1288295314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Victory. < 1288295320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: IDE routines are a page of asm < 1288295326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: FAT routines are a page or two of asm < 1288295329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: COM loading is a few bytes of asm :P < 1288295334 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really make sense, Labour were in power then < 1288295337 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: everything is easy etc etc < 1288295339 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the sort of thing the Conservatives would do < 1288295352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well, you could do it in like three to four pages of asm, total < 1288295368 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you wanted to rewrite it yourself and debug what you wrote, yes < 1288295383 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, before 2004, they didn't have a ceremony, and the oath of allegiance was verified by a lawyer < 1288295389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: oh come on, IDE routines have little room for failure < 1288295401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://www.colorforth.com/ide.html < 1288295415 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in something as complex as Visual Studio or Eclipse? < 1288295426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COM loading is literally reading a file from disk to a memory location and then jmp < 1288295426 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "Be born in North Ireland, and then go to Ireland and perform an action that only Irish citizens can perform." <-- that action being? < 1288295428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not that kind of IDE < 1288295429 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: Vorpal may accidentally mistake this for a good joke) < 1288295432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1288295433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1288295441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's see < 1288295444 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: being shot after sunset? < 1288295457 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, ... I don't get the joke here < 1288295459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: [joke detector] BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP < 1288295466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so let's see, IDE reading is http://colorforth.com/ide.html super-simple, COM loading is literally reading a file from disk to a memory location and then jmp < 1288295467 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you seem to think i'm arguing against rewriting it < 1288295470 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's a city somewhere which still hasn't repealed a law which allegedly makes it legal to shoot Irishmen after sunset under certain conditions) < 1288295473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the potential for error is in FAT routines entirely :P < 1288295479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, hah < 1288295498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's legal to shoot scots with a bow and arrow in northerly areas, I think < 1288295501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that, anyway < 1288295510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: LET'S REWRITE IT (you can do the hard parts) < 1288295522 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably dating from the days when a) target practice was mandatory, and b) all english hated all scottsih < 1288295523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did DOS use FAT12 or FAT16? < 1288295526 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*scottish < 1288295532 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FAT16, I think, but I'm not sure < 1288295540 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS 1 hardly had a filesystem at all, it didn't have directories < 1288295546 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were one of the innovations in DOS 2 < 1288295548 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: both, no? < 1288295556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: is there any reason for FAT16 to exist apart from volumes above 32 megs? < 1288295571 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a reason < 1288295573 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are no hard parts < 1288295574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: FAT16 was added around 3.something, because I remember having to split the 40-meg HD. < 1288295580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "Transparent encryption: Per-volume only with DR-DOS" < 1288295582 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, good to konw < 1288295584 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know < 1288295605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: An example of such an action would be voting. Or asking for a passport. < 1288295618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, you would become a citizen of Ireland *the instant you tried to vote*. < 1288295621 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so attempting to vote in Ireland makes you Irish? < 1288295625 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, able to vote? < 1288295628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would you really get away with it if you tried today (bow and arrow to shoot a scot) < 1288295629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: If you are entitled to Irish citizenship. < 1288295635 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288295636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the law would finally be repelled then < 1288295646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: People born on the *island* of Ireland are entitled to such, for instance. < 1288295649 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's likely overridden by subsequent legislation < 1288295653 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you KNOW i have to turn this thing into a web browser somehow < 1288295663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, ah < 1288295673 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: then run JSMIPS in it, and a simulation of DOS on there? < 1288295702 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/index.dsk < 1288295706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Yes, you would become a citizen of Ireland *the instant you tried to vote*. <-- would that not cause some general confusion with the person supposed to register the vote? < 1288295715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to have been an "initial FAT-16" from 3.0 to 3.2 which didn't actually increase the volume size limits (from 32 MB), just the maximum cluster count -- so smaller clusters = less space-wastage -- and then 3.31 introducing the real FAT-16 which can do up to 2 GB. < 1288295725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it works somehow. < 1288295729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh < 1288295741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh. Irish citizenship by descent can last forever *easily*. < 1288295742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why do they do this though? < 1288295748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What, 404! < 1288295776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a matter of notifying Ireland of each birth, and voila. Perpetual Irish citizenship. < 1288295829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... Northern Ireland is effectively just Ireland, but happens to be in the UK. < 1288295835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hah < 1288295856 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you could probably start a war with that statement < 1288295864 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the situation with Northern Ireland is incredibly complicated < 1288295873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, right < 1288295881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I gathered that much < 1288295888 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are very strong opinions in Northern Ireland about whether it should be part of Ireland or the UK, mostly split along religious lines < 1288295909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, yes I know that much < 1288295916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, we have newspapers here < 1288295923 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even used to erupt into civil war now and again, although it's been pretty peaceful for ages and everyone's getting along relatively nicely < 1288295930 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: which talk about Northern Ireland? < 1288295934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://catseye.tc/index.dsk < 1288295938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :404 *sniff* < 1288295976 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are something like five or six political parties representing a large range of viewpoints, which sit on both a special Northern Ireland assembly, and also the UK Government < 1288295978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it even used to erupt into civil war now and again, although it's been pretty peaceful for ages and everyone's getting along relatively nicely < 1288295978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, well, the war before, then not full war but still conflicts and nowdays usually just a few times every year some demonstrations causing general irritation < 1288295980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when it doesn't < 1288295986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then MOLOTOV COCKTAILS < 1288296002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We only have Åland, who I think sort-of wanted to be part of Sweden, and vice-versa; and no-one actually bothers any more to get all emotional about it. < 1288296018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All because catholics and protestants find it hard to get along for... Stupid reasons. < 1288296023 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it's a bit of a habit for the strongly anti-UK parties to refuse to attend the UK Houses of Parliament ever, even though they've technically been elected; people trying to work out coalition maths have to keep correcting for this) < 1288296026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not just sort of. They fully wanted it < 1288296042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, the whole thing with Ireland & Northern Ireland is just a demonstration of the power of stupidity. < 1288296044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Only 96.2 % of them. :p < 1288296044 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sweden wanted to be part of Åland? < 1288296045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they are still not part of EU though < 1288296056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is quite a large majority! < 1288296059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_++ < 1288296065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, :P < 1288296073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that Vorpal hasn't corrected fizzie yet. < 1288296080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HA HA FUCK YOU FIZZIE ENJOY YOUR CORRECTION) < 1288296082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't notice the typo < 1288296092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (although it's a bit of a habit for the strongly anti-UK parties to refuse to attend the UK Houses of Parliament ever, even though they've technically been elected; people trying to work out coalition maths have to keep correcting for this) < 1288296099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did Sinn Faen or however you spell it ever actually get used? < 1288296108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sinn Féin < 1288296118 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they generally have around 3 seats, but never turn up as a point of principle < 1288296128 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that to be allowed in there you have to swear allegiance to the Queen, or something < 1288296135 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these old formalities that's been around for ages < 1288296137 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they refuse to < 1288296160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288296176 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this technically disenfranchises the constituencies who vote for them, but somehow I don't think they care < 1288296199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: argh, how can you make me want to code 386 assembly? < 1288296217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shall be called DOS, the Dork's Operating System. < 1288296220 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: better, do 8086 < 1288296225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the Dumbfounded Operating System. < 1288296228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what did DOS 1 run on? :p < 1288296235 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, use the binary-coded-decimal operations as much as possible < 1288296242 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't actually know, I've only read the manual, not actually used it < 1288296276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS 1 ran on the IBM PC, of course. < 1288296287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1288296303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I should write 8088 asm < 1288296314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the first DOS not to run on the IBM PC, and what did it run on? :P < 1288296328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: MS-DOS was a renamed form of 86-DOS — informally known as the Quick-and-dirty Operating System or Q-DOS [2] — owned by Seattle Computer Products, written by Tim Paterson[2]. Microsoft needed an operating system for the then-new Intel 8086 but it had none available, so it licensed 86-DOS and released a version of it as MS-DOS 1.0[2]. Development started in 1981, and MS-DOS 1.0 was released with the IBM PC in 1982[2]. < 1288296342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh: [[Worried by possible legal problems, in June 1981 Microsoft made an offer to Rod Brock, the owner of Seattle Computer, to buy the rights for 86-DOS. An agreement to release all rights to the software was signed in June 1981. The total cost was $75,000.[3][n 2]]] < 1288296345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seattle Computer got fucked < 1288296380 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, what do you think of ? it's a document filed by Oracle comparing source code in Oracle Java and Android Java < 1288296405 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out if it's copying, or just coincidence of one obvious way to do it < 1288296421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I think that the a priori probability of Oracle being full of shit when attacking Google is very close to 1, based on Oracle being dickheads and Google not being nearly as dickheaded, and the fact that Sun never did it. < 1288296430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure when (or even if) they dropped 8088 support; though you can't run all components (emm386, say) on pre-386. < 1288296437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well not *that* close to 1, but you know.) < 1288296450 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, yes, but I'm still curious as to the point they're making there in the abstract < 1288296451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Probably just worth supporting 386, then, isn't it. < 1288296466 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I'll send it to the other Java tutors as an exercise in detecting plagiarism < 1288296478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ugh, they didn't embed their monospaced font < 1288296491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it shows as the unreadable default PDF sans font for me, with added spacing to make it monospaced < 1288296494 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Oracle, what do you expect? < 1288296497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it looks condensed < 1288296502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I, literally, find ita lmost impossible to read this < 1288296520 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it isn't even actually monospaced < 1288296525 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lines don't line up from one to the next < 1288296528 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just pretending to be monospaced < 1288296530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it almost < 1288296545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hm? < 1288296558 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks monospaced at a glance < 1288296564 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it actually isn't, the lines don't line up < 1288296578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: my current thoughts on these: "it probably isn't copied, but even if it is, this shouldn't be copyrightable at all..." < 1288296588 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's monospaced, but the tab isn't an integral number of characters < 1288296598 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what effect that has on elliott's tabs theory
< 1288296602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: my eyes hurt < 1288296609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my theory is that i hate oracle < 1288296630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The indents look 4-chars here, but I haven't looked very closely. < 1288296646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: heh, I just realised that my DOS wouldn't have a simple way to support universal piping < 1288296648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and redirection < 1288296656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd basically rely on the shell to provide putchar and the like < 1288296677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, or more correctly: the indents look like four characters in the right column, but not in the left one. < 1288296686 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, the property names are looking more similar than I'd expect them to be by chance, but the code isn't < 1288296695 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, you'd expect Oracle to pick the best example they could < 1288296701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: the property names are probably mandated by Java < 1288296717 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're private, but I suppose they might be anyway < 1288296719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I mean, the library is standardised... < 1288296724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, they're probably listed in the spec < 1288296728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if not mandated < 1288296763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that has a directly named public getter will at least cause identical names for the underlying private properties. < 1288296768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know a nice 86 assembler? 386 or 8086 or whatever, i don't care :p < 1288296780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice and simple. also, simple < 1288296787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't need executable format support < 1288296829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a rather large x86 assembler comparison article somewhere, but I didn't save the URL anywhere. < 1288296833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just go with NASM. < 1288296855 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like it's slow, and you can just ignore the features you don't like; but if for ideological reasons that's no go... < 1288296868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: NASM? *So* Linux. < 1288296870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm totally DOSing here. < 1288296879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll use FASM. < 1288296896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's very DOSy. < 1288296919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gas! < 1288296925 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NASM runs in DOS just fine; it's what I used back then, there. < 1288296929 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use the Borland assembler < 1288296932 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, better < 1288296935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no :P < 1288296936 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use DEBUG.EXE < 1288296941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, but, I want DOS philosophy! < 1288296945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: does that even have mnemonics? < 1288296948 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write asm straight into memory, then save the resulting executable as a file < 1288296954 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does indeed < 1288296954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have done a bit of TASM, but that's really not simple. < 1288296960 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how I've written ASM before now < 1288296968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also commercial, of course.) < 1288296973 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pain to edit if you want to insert lines, though, you have to move the whole block of code by hand < 1288296980 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even though it has mnemonics, it doesn't have labels < 1288296981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: maybe i'll implement the DEBUG.COM assembly language in C to use on the host < 1288296988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and then provide my own DEBUG.COM-alike for the OS < 1288296996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reasonably certain you could run DOS 7 on an original IBM PC. < 1288296999 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is it a .COM? < 1288297007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: in older DOS :P < 1288297016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone please tell me FreeDOS supports x86-64. < 1288297032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DOS programs can be x86-64 only, yes. < 1288297037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1288297058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS itself should still run on a basic IBM PC, but programs have no such restriction. < 1288297062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm, does 8086 have the long/far/whatever pointer architecture? < 1288297074 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1288297081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what's the oldest thing that doesn't? :p < 1288297089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am more than a bit allergic to anything that has more than one kind of pointer. < 1288297093 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a long pointer can point to a different segment, a short pointer points to the current segment < 1288297116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Microprocessor or CPU architecture in general? < 1288297125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: architecture < 1288297128 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a far pointer is identical to a long pointer, except arithmetic operations on it are more expensive to handle overflow from one segment to the 4096th-next correctly < 1288297134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you give something unhelpful i'll ask microprocessor :) < 1288297141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i'll ask for microprocessor :) < 1288297146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: heh < 1288297164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inclined to go with EDVAC. < 1288297170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: >_< < 1288297172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 8086-derived < 1288297172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean the first x86 that you can run in a (mostly) non-segmented way, that'd be 386 in protected mode; if you mean something else, then something else. < 1288297182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh. < 1288297187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But, but I want real mode! < 1288297198 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(correct far pointer overflow: 0x0001FFFF + 3 = 0x01010002) < 1288297201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you get segments and offsets and silly pointers. < 1288297201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Counting things the 8086 is derived *from*? < 1288297206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NO < 1288297210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ;__; < 1288297211 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: realmode always has both near and far poitners < 1288297214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But I don't wanna. < 1288297220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gas! <-- afaik gas doesn't do real-mode < 1288297223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Butbutbut 4-bit CPU! < 1288297241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course it does, how do you think you get into protected mode? < 1288297244 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which one was that? < 1288297253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Intel 4004. < 1288297259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, using some hand written machine instructions < 1288297260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The first microprocessor. < 1288297265 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, am I muddling far and huge? < 1288297275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... no you don't < 1288297279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, 4 bits... that is a very limited address space < 1288297282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Gas has a .code16 directive nowadays; I don't think it's very real-mode-oriented, though. < 1288297284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay < 1288297284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can easily get into protected mode with gas < 1288297290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1288297291 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there are three sorts of pointer (16-bit, "32"-bit, "32"-bit with arithmetic corrected), the names keep changing around inconsistently < 1288297291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1288297294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget :D < 1288297309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gas uses a bizarre hack for that. < 1288297314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: bleargh. < 1288297328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MS-DOS Debug can only access conventional memory,[2] which is the first 640K in an IBM PC." < 1288297328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288297342 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 10 segments is all you need! < 1288297348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: the author of DEBUG also wrote EDLIN <3 < 1288297357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, it is very very limited. < 1288297364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and he wrote 86-DOS :P < 1288297367 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're very similar programs < 1288297385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, did it have banks or such? < 1288297394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was a Harvard architecture. < 1288297404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: now he races rally cars, probably to forget about DOS < 1288297410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, only helps a tiny bit < 1288297442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Aaah. It had a wider address space, but 4-bit words. < 1288297462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it was the first (commercial) microprocessor < 1288297466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and also the first CPU on a chip < 1288297470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think very many "8-bit" processors go with an 8-bit address space either. < 1288297483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 10 μm, 740 kHz < 1288297487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCD < 1288297498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/KL_National_INS4004.jpg < 1288297498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pic < 1288297517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1288297524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why BCD < 1288297530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it was common < 1288297535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubiquitous, even < 1288297545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, what's this about a bizarre hack for going to protected mode with Gas? At least Linux header.S looks like regular 16-bit code with .code16, and I don't see why you couldn't continue all the way up to protected mode. (It does do the horrible C + gcc + .code16gcc trick, but that's beside the point here.) < 1288297547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but the space waste back then was utterly silly < 1288297602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It doesn't waste space if you just make all the corresponding number range limits smaller. < 1288297616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And of course there's the trivial conversion to-fro decimal.) < 1288297620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is any retro hackery doomed to segment hell? < 1288297627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand segments and I don't want to. < 1288297636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not *that* strange. < 1288297638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Segments are actually incredibly simple. < 1288297643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but still! < 1288297647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay fine, explain segments to me in a non-stupid way. < 1288297648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288297653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just remember that 0000:0010 is also 0001:0000, that's all. < 1288297660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what < 1288297682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/SealGUI.png 32-bit dos gui < 1288297684 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very simple, you have 8 hex digits < 1288297686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l o l < 1288297688 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last 4 is the number of 1s < 1288297688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, overlapping segments? < 1288297694 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first 4 is the number of 16s < 1288297696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's what x86 real mode is. < 1288297702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: impressive (awful) < 1288297714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1288297715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (segment << 4) + offset, with 16-bit segments and offsets. < 1288297720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/QubeOS.png 32-bit multitasking FreeDOS GUI < 1288297738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aaah < 1288297756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait. IDE routines wouldn't need to worry about segments. Nor would FAT routines. < 1288297763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Would even COM loading need to worry about it? < 1288297789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In effect, the 8086 has a 20-bit address space. As an optimization, you can use only 16 bits of address, with the rest coming from the segment register. The normal address is achieved from (segment << 4) + 16-bit-address. < 1288297790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It does have the nice feature that two far pointers to the same byte in memory may compare unequal if they use a different equivalent representation. < 1288297812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is the segment register initialised to anything? < 1288297815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: As a de-optimisation, when you want a larger pointer, instead of just using a normal address you just give the segment in addition to the 16-bit address. < 1288297823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you're willing to restrict yourself to 64k of memory, you don't need to consider segments at all. < 1288297829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At what point? < 1288297836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By DOS? By the BIOS? By the CPU? < 1288297838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, some mmap() tricks could have that effect on a normal OS as well < 1288297839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OS load < 1288297843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my OS load, taht is < 1288297844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1288297845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, COMs are 64k minus a few bytes, right? < 1288297855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pretty sure the segment registers are 0. < 1288297861 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the entire COM is blitted into memory, in a single segment < 1288297865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's a code and a data segment register. < 1288297866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: right < 1288297870 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cs, ds, es, ss are all set to that segment < 1288297871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't even need to worry about segments :) < 1288297876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1288297881 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts at 0x100 in the segment < 1288297887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm, did people run out of .COM space often? < 1288297891 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first 0x100 is used for CP/M compatibility < 1288297892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a stack segment register and a I-don't-remember register... < 1288297899 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did on occasion < 1288297906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Extra segment." < 1288297906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: did people use the first 0x100 bytes? < 1288297919 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, so long as they didn't need the CP/M emulation < 1288297921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i mean, i have less than zero CP/M compatibility :) < 1288297925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's a reason that .EXE was invented. < 1288297932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and DOS compatibility for that matter < 1288297934 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a bit of amazingness, if you have a COM file that is just a RET command < 1288297936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least I've always assumed E in ES is for Extra.) < 1288297943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: so I'm just wondering if loading stuff at 0 would be ok for programs < 1288297946 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running it pops the 0 that DOS adds to the stack, so jumps to location 0 < 1288297946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, not those programs < 1288297948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but new prorgams < 1288297949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1288297952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it restrict any hackery? < 1288297955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah -- bloated software :D < 1288297957 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that contains the INT command to exit the program < 1288297970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i... love that < 1288297974 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the program has to load at 0x100 in order for jumps to hit the right location < 1288297979 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so do I < 1288297980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wait, why would DOS push0 to the stack? < 1288297985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: well, the program has to load at 0x100 in order for jumps to hit the right location <-- yes, but i have no compatibility < 1288297986 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because otherwise that wouldn't work < 1288297992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just asking if it opened up any fun trickery < 1288297993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*push 0 < 1288297996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: for that sole reason? :D < 1288297999 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye[ < 1288298001 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yep < 1288298011 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I exploited that 0 in SUUDA < 1288298020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, suuda? < 1288298020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm, DOS couldn't run a program inside another program, right? < 1288298025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so exiting a program was basically "jmp shell" < 1288298025 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blanking registers by popping it into them, then pushing it back < 1288298026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1288298035 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it could system() style, but not fork() style < 1288298042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hm, really? interesting < 1288298045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hmm, < 1288298046 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just by picking an unused segment and putting it there < 1288298051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS has a separate "terminate and stay resident" thing, though. < 1288298052 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS handled adjusting the segment registers < 1288298055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what if you ran out of segments? :D < 1288298057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fuck that shit :) < 1288298060 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: self uu-decoding applications < 1288298064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, ah < 1288298067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: surely that was in a relatively recent DOS < 1288298071 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much like the concept of self-unzipping applications < 1288298078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not in DOS 1, 2 < 1288298083 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I wrote it with reference to a manual that covered DOS 1,2,3 < 1288298089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ugh < 1288298091 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it was a DOS 1 compatible prorgam < 1288298093 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*program < 1288298096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i'm trying to get a 3-page plus CMD os here! < 1288298110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't go for DOS then < 1288298117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well i'm not implementing DOS < 1288298119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm implementing DOS < 1288298124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1288298128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Dork's/Dumbfounding Operating System < 1288298134 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want existing .COM files to run, load them at 0x100 just so that hardcoded JMP statements go to the right locations < 1288298139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm, question: what does 0x4D 0x5A do in x86? < 1288298142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as machine instructions < 1288298144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1288298154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: existing COM files won't run, they'll try all sorts of silly interrupts < 1288298165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, newer DOSes might well try loading the program into high memory (ZOMG 32BIT)... < 1288298184 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IIRC, crashes the program < 1288298186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no no no no no < 1288298191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dec bp, pop dx. < 1288298194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: darn < 1288298195 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, something implausible and undefined < 1288298198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: (it's the header for DOS executables) < 1288298207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MZ, initials of Mark Zbikowski, designer < 1288298209 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, part of the reason it was picked was that nobody was likely to have used it deliberately < 1288298213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1288298215 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other reason was that it was the person's initials < 1288298221 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they happened to not be particularly meaningful < 1288298227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what about EH? :p < 1288298235 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers that SUUDA executables always started XP_W
< 1288298239 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: disassemble it, see what it does < 1288298245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: with *what*? < 1288298248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: inc bp, dec ax. < 1288298250 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most capital letters are stack manipulation commands, IIRC < 1288298253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does DOSBox have DEBUG? < 1288298259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Useful at all? :p < 1288298263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could use gdb or objdump? < 1288298267 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by default, you can run it but it doesn't come with it < 1288298279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: haha < 1288298281 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, there are loads of disassemblers around, thoguh < 1288298283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably not at the beginning of a program, no. < 1288298290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well objdump would work just fine < 1288298291 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just echo -n EH > eh.com, then disassemble it < 1288298300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if you like using objdump... < 1288298308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nothing wrong with it? < 1288298313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~$ echo -n EH | ndisasm /dev/stdin < 1288298313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000000 45 inc bp < 1288298313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000001 48 dec ax < 1288298315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that. < 1288298323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could sprunge objump --help now, but I won't. < 1288298325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: bah :P < 1288298330 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1288298340 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the trick with objdump is, you only use one of the infinity options at a time < 1288298345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to convince objdump to read COMs
< 1288298347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I could sprunge objump --help now, but I won't. <-- I know it, could be better, but nothing majorly wrong < 1288298347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In related news, "disassemble stdin" is a bit silly command.) < 1288298353 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't take too much scanning to figure out the one you need < 1288298366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it thinks eh.com is truncated, so clearly i need to inform it of the format < 1288298371 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, inc bp dec ax is just changing uninitialised registers to other uninitialised values < 1288298392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes < 1288298395 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, I wouldn't be surprised if bp at least was initialised explicitly, and ax had a set value by coincidence due to the implementation of invoking programs) < 1288298401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: care to tell me how? :p < 1288298407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure < 1288298423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how Vorpal interpreted that
< 1288298441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, dubya wrote a book! < 1288298463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://p.zem.fi/objdump-disasm < 1288298465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, -b and -m iirc < 1288298484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my objdump has neither option < 1288298488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to make it treat it as 16-bit code, though. < 1288298495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1288298495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1288298503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also it can't read /dev/stdin.) < 1288298510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's "not an ordinary file".) < 1288298512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now how do I get it to output asm code in the sane syntax < 1288298513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1288298513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objdump -m i8086 -b binary -D tmp.com < 1288298514 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: objdump -i gives a list of supported input formats, but none of them seem to be DOS .COM, at least on this Linux system < 1288298516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that works for me < 1288298517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i love how gnu tools do that < 1288298523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's not an ordinary file! aieee!" < 1288298526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, .COM has no format < 1288298533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: still outputs in the bad format < 1288298537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, .com = binary < 1288298541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what bad format? < 1288298545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: AT&T < 1288298546 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal says "binary", that seems like a plausible name (this objdump doesn't support it) < 1288298547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "-M intel" < 1288298564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remove the other cruft it outputs, gives up, fizzie: what was that one you used called?
< 1288298572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "-b binary -m i386 -M intel" gives intel-syntax 32-bit x86 asm out of a binary file. < 1288298574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language is Sgeo in love with right now? < 1288298578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, --help and see -M < 1288298579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: undecided < 1288298583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ndisasm, it's part of nasm. < 1288298584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i used --help. < 1288298589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, supposedly there is -M intel-mnemonic < 1288298592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries
< 1288298593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: do you think it'd be possible to write a DOS-ish kernel entirely with printable? :) < 1288298600 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've said "-M intel" twice already. < 1288298600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1288298609 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: obviously, SUUDA made /arbitrary executables/ printable < 1288298609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, he presumably ignores you < 1288298611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, thrice now. < 1288298615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1288298621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how Vorpal thinks fizzie was saying i didn't notice it < 1288298627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than fizzie saying that Vorpal didn't notice it < 1288298633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ndisasm is helpful if you want to bother tinkering with offsets and a complete lack of knowledge of the object structure. < 1288298636 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I used it to make a simple text-printing loop with appended data printable < 1288298639 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it true uudecoding < 1288298640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: assuming i'd /ignore fizzie, despite him being high on the list of coolest and least annoying people here < 1288298651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't notice it either. but nor did you I think < 1288298659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: obviously, SUUDA made /arbitrary executables/ printable < 1288298664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: does it work without an OS underneath, though? < 1288298667 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it wasn't really uucode; to keep things simple, it operated via a 6-bits-2-bits encoding) < 1288298668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need that for a kernel < 1288298670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, that's exactly what is wanted here: direct disassembly of sequences of bytes. < 1288298671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I did < 1288298672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I used it < 1288298677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ok < 1288298678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw no reason to reply, you just kept going on. < 1288298682 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it would have done, there were no system calls except the actual output of the letters < 1288298686 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that bit could easily have been changed < 1288298688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ndisasm also accepts - < 1288298691 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just pure 8086ism < 1288298692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah. < 1288298694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Cool. < 1288298701 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are you up to? < 1288298703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also ndisasm <(echo -n foo) :P < 1288298704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: DOS! < 1288298711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, got a link to SUUDA? < 1288298712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1288298717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that was the spelling < 1288298720 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not on this computer < 1288298730 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if the wireless is working on the other one yet < 1288298732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: now all I need is the documentation of a mnemonic to appear to the right of the diassembly :) < 1288298741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, you could easily type it over from there :P < 1288298748 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to < 1288298780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, download intel pdfs? < 1288298788 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, I should have designed the thing to ignore newlines < 1288298791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: those are huge and confusing, i just want a one-line summary < 1288298792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1288298792 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't < 1288298793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or AMD, they have better docs < 1288298798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov a, b -- move b to a < 1288298798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, AMD docs are better < 1288298804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp a -- jump to a < 1288298806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i know those < 1288298808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but other ones < 1288298812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov a, b -- move b to a < 1288298813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1288298815 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: it's self-modifying code, because none of the jump instructions happen to be printable) < 1288298815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you < 1288298817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complain < 1288298821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nasm /used/ to have a fantastic one in appendix B of the docs. < 1288298821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about AT&T syntax < 1288298827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you FAIL :P < 1288298830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffff it was a typo < 1288298831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up < 1288298845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wait what?: < 1288298847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's intel < 1288298851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov x, y -- x = y < 1288298854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. move y to x < 1288298856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you* fail < 1288298857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/:$// < 1288298858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but see the comment < 1288298860 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott> I'm totally DOSing here. < 1288298861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: used to? < 1288298862 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they stripped it out at some point around when they added 64-bit support. < 1288298864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you wrote "move b to a" < 1288298864 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use SP\ASM < 1288298868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed i did < 1288298869 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is the AT&T order < 1288298871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wat < 1288298874 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's a bit long to retype < 1288298875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no it isn't < 1288298881 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, I should have written it in asm < 1288298883 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an 8-line BAT file that I wrote, which calls DEBUG.COM < 1288298889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Intel, "mov a, b" is "a = b" < 1288298893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "move b to a" < 1288298898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288298900 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be complete enough that you could basically hand-assemble with only appendix B, but now it just gives a table of instructions with no documentation. < 1288298900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: lawl < 1288298906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but the comment is written as AT&T order < 1288298910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the comment itself < 1288298912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...no it isn't < 1288298917 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://catseye.tc/projects/sp_asm-1998.0716.zip < 1288298920 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: might not be 8 lines < 1288298922 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget < 1288298925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's short, is the point < 1288298938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes writing it intel order would be "move to a from b" < 1288298939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you crashed my archiver! /me unzips manually < 1288298945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: asm != english < 1288298950 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1288298952 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*burns < 1288298962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed, and AT&T syntax is closer to English < 1288298981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: non-zipbomb, interesting :p < 1288298989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so english is a nice basis for a programming language? enjoy your Perl < 1288299004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: do you strictly have to TYPE THE PROGRAM IN UPPERCASE < 1288299005 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we need is an IRC-friendlier asm syntax, for EgoBat/HackEgo < 1288299005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I prefer Plain English ;) < 1288299016 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not strictly but THIS IS DOS SO YES < 1288299016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it already does *gas magick* < 1288299019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just s/;/\n/ :P < 1288299025 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, AT&T syntax is such a horrible syntax for multiple reasons which are apparent to all those of us with even a molecule of sense. < 1288299028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wow, asm.bat is terrible < 1288299035 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here's a printable Hello, World: XP_W^VH%35%DCPYXPH%=5%=CP[]UM#(UX%??t&* * * * ZR 1() !GFF=\ouU0_0<0^3L1L0^292L1^1I2L0Y1D1\3R3P0:031101013A0D0o313p21030D1J2@@A5 < 1288299039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it prints even when it works! that's so ununix! ;) < 1288299040 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I typed that correctly... < 1288299049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: if you didn't, nobody will begrudge you, dude :P < 1288299059 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the A5 at the end is my initials < 1288299064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288299069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: is it there for any reason? < 1288299082 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, needed to pad one byte to make room for the initial stack even if memory was almost full < 1288299090 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it crashes noisly rather than silently < 1288299095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: is empty.com one of those files that existed in every directory? < 1288299095 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the @@ before that is a string terminator < 1288299100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no, it comes with spasm < 1288299107 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: iirc empty.com is required for it to work < 1288299108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just zeroes, you zany flitwick < 1288299113 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think shelta has something like that < 1288299115 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1288299115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um does qemu run dos? < 1288299117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1288299120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have a dos disk for me? < 1288299123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1288299127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeDOS? < 1288299131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but that's *illegal!* < 1288299132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: boring < 1288299138 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah. empty.com is the "buffer" into which the binary is written < 1288299147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: nope < 1288299150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it runs debug on the new com < 1288299160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: basically, your program makes an empty com file < 1288299162 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did mistype it, I just compared hashes < 1288299163 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe it copies it to use it as a base < 1288299165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then does debug com log < 1288299171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why it doesn't just print out the log is beyond me < 1288299184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: heh < 1288299187 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be *some* reason (note: this is fallacious) < 1288299206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it does, but does debug really require a padded executable? < 1288299208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be absurd < 1288299213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: quick, what was the last great DOS? < 1288299251 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1288299259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: quick, what was the last great DOS? < 1288299277 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could try in DOSBox < 1288299283 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hopefully find the typo < 1288299292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i could, but how boring is that? also i was going to try debug, not your silly thing, but ok :P < 1288299310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS 6.22 was pretty popular; it's the last pre-win9x one. < 1288299323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "the last X" is rarely "the last great X" < 1288299335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's ever been especially "great". < 1288299336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why MS-DOS < 1288299344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS IS THE GREATEST < 1288299352 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the last great DOS was Windows 3.11 < 1288299353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean my dos ofc < 1288299358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: my other toyota is a car < 1288299363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wow, that was surprisingly awesome < 1288299377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, DOS Shell appeared in 4.0, and everyone agrees that it's very awesome. < 1288299384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: for a typo'd program, it sure executes properly < 1288299391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "Hello, world!" < 1288299405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what definition of awesome? :P < 1288299418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what did DOS use before that? < 1288299418 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I did type it right < 1288299426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: newline problem when hashing? < 1288299428 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid tcsh was stripping exclamation marks inside single-quoted strings < 1288299429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not PC-DOS or such? < 1288299440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: lawl tcsh < 1288299443 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't even make sense, to anyone who knows how UNIX shells should work... < 1288299446 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not my computer... < 1288299470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: in its defence, try [[echo "!x"]] in bash sometime < 1288299473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's double-quoted, but still < 1288299487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: also: note how it gets expanded *in the freaking command history* < 1288299489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, bash doesn't do that in single quotes! < 1288299492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: so that you can't fix it < 1288299493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can turn it off < 1288299494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but still... < 1288299516 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, all this needs now is an unzip algorithm and a shorter frontend < 1288299524 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it might actually be a useful method of packaging DOS executables < 1288299543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that dosbox fails at: directories changing while it's running < 1288299551 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, in multiple ways < 1288299552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't notice new files are there even if you run a program... < 1288299556 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it causes crazy timestamp skew < 1288299560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such as "hello2" just now) < 1288299567 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not running fullspeed, so its clock gets out of synch with the filesystem around it < 1288299574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1288299586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i think dosbox is pretty badly designed < 1288299587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not use dosemu instead < 1288299593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: who knows if that will work? < 1288299596 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so do I < 1288299601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well it might < 1288299607 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does work, but with so many UI frustrations you wish for something better < 1288299614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries dosemu
< 1288299637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I used to use it to play Monkey Island and ScummVM is so much better it isn't even funny. < 1288299651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, dosemu uses freedos. < 1288299652 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use it for compiling C-ITNERCAL < 1288299659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww it's so fancy and bad < 1288299660 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*INTERCAL < 1288299666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1288299672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-tabbing into it makes it press the tab key in the dos < 1288299673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not joking < 1288299677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, awesome typo < 1288299683 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really < 1288299686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really < 1288299690 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: snap < 1288299691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, way it aloud < 1288299695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no need to echo him < 1288299701 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's still not particularly awesome < 1288299704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i only typed those exact words because you did, tbh < 1288299707 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hard to pronounce < 1288299717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes Vorpal needs a nuclear holocaust of "not really" < 1288299720 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto print It's not hard to pronounce ITNERCAL < 1288299720 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It's not hard to pronounce ITNERCAL < 1288299731 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto? < 1288299731 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: omg u errored teh syntax!!1! < 1288299732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto archaeologists < 1288299732 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: omg u errored teh syntax!!1! < 1288299737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto print death < 1288299737 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: death < 1288299738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto quit < 1288299738 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288299742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DISLIKE THIS BOT < 1288299755 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what lang is ?SYNTAX ERROR from? < 1288299756 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth? < 1288299760 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: BASIC < 1288299764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, i just had the best < 1288299765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best < 1288299766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1288299766 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which dialect? < 1288299770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego, right < 1288299771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in DOS < 1288299773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss. < 1288299774 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC and FORTRAN will always be capitalized in my heart. < 1288299783 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Um... Applesoft, at least < 1288299793 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are hundreds, maybe thousands < 1288299796 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have to ask < 1288299801 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I grew up with BBC Basic < 1288299804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Code_examples the reasonability of this code example actually scares me < 1288299807 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure not just Applesoft < 1288299808 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its beautiful error message "Mistake" < 1288299810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it manages to look nicer than C < 1288299819 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which actually meant something along the lines of "Unknown identifier" < 1288299822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i approve < 1288299829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it implicitly makes all bugs into features < 1288299835 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I... may have to steal that one < 1288299841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Code_examples again, shivers
< 1288299844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN IS MEANT TO SUCK < 1288299847 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had others too, but that was the most memorable one < 1288299860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm not exactly sure what "write (*,'(a,g12.4)')" means < 1288299868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, formatting specifier < 1288299869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like < 1288299884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I like how spasm programs need to end with Q < 1288299909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I find " real, dimension(:), allocatable :: points" a bit weird but apart from that it is indeed very straight-forward < 1288299912 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually I'd like you to be able to configure the error messages storkbot'll send you, so you can reign in the annoyance < 1288299937 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/errmsgs=silent < 1288299937 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: silent < 1288299943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really < 1288299946 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't do anything yet obv < 1288299950 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FORTRAN (and the newer variant Fortran) are actually dying nowadays, due to C99 replacing them < 1288299955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dimension(:) obviously means "1D array" or so < 1288299959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1288299959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocatable obviously means dynamically allocated < 1288299972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect dimension(::) for a 2D array, or something < 1288299973 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, at least one (possibly more) C99 feature exists only for the purpose of tempting FORTRAN users to use C99 instead < 1288299978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: *sniff* < 1288299978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yea SP\ASM is fantastic awful < 1288299980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: (what is it?) < 1288299985 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the restrict keyword < 1288299985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i dunno, i quite like it, i mean < 1288299989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you could have documentation after q < 1288299989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't say it was unintelligible. Just weird < 1288299994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ha < 1288299999 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare the C99 types of memcpy and memmove, that makes it pretty obvious what it does < 1288300005 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you didn't know already) < 1288300010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: BUT THAT'S LIKE OPTIMISATION DUDE < 1288300011 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "fantasticawful" should maybe be a newspeakish protmanteau for what i mean < 1288300013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUCAN'T INSULT OUR OPTIMISATION < 1288300014 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it lets C optimise to the level that Fortran was optimising < 1288300022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i do not like dosmeu < 1288300024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dosemu < 1288300037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what dos did you write sp\asm on? :p < 1288300046 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i.... Windows 95 < 1288300053 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly < 1288300055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Son, I am disappoint. < 1288300060 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like DOS 7.0 technically or something < 1288300069 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fun question: in Fortran, assuming rand() is a function that returns a random float, what's the value of rand()/rand()? < 1288300077 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: 6, IIRC < 1288300077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: 1 < 1288300082 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1288300089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: if it was something random, you wouldn't have said that :) < 1288300090 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :textually identical subexpressions are only evaluated once < 1288300094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i like it < 1288300099 0 :MF_Williams!~williams@41.203.237.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288300107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i actually do like it, but moreso in a language without rand() < 1288300108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi MF_Williams < 1288300128 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288300130 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortran seems to have a culture of doing unsafe optimisations and making them the users's fault if they break things < 1288300138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, hah < 1288300143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, DOS is up to 8.0 < 1288300147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was last released in late 2000 < 1288300152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1288300157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was 8.0 for ME? < 1288300160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: presumably with Windows Me < 1288300161 0 :MF_Williams!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1288300163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Me < 1288300166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to you) < 1288300172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS-DOS 8.0 < 1288300172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah a few seconds before you :P < 1288300172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm tempted to ask about if rand() happens to return 0. < 1288300172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version 8.0 (WinME) - Integrated drivers for faster Windows loading. < 1288300173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version 8.0 (WinXP) - DOS boot disks created by XP and later contain files from WinME. The internal DOS is still 5.0 < 1288300179 0 :MF_Williams!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1288300179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: still 5.0 inside :) < 1288300186 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't actually know < 1288300186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 appears to just be 5 + software < 1288300186 0 :MF_Williams!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im new on linux < 1288300190 0 :MF_Williams!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1288300190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but with long file names, fat32, etc. < 1288300195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MF_Williams: ok < 1288300199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MF_Williams: do you know what this channel is about? < 1288300204 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MF_Williams: you'll either get used to it in a while, or use something else, it's not a big issue < 1288300214 0 :MF_Williams!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got a problem with windows xp pro < 1288300235 0 :MF_Williams!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1288300240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Below you'll find several different bootable CD images in ISO format for MS-DOS." < 1288300242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just wrong < 1288300249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MF_Williams: this channel is about esoteric programming languages < 1288300254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MF_Williams: out of curiosity, what made you think it was about linux? < 1288300259 0 :MF_Williams!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288300266 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like we'll never know < 1288300271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: DOS3.3.iso (1.6 MB) < 1288300275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: discuss how utterly wrong this is < 1288300281 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's a very small CD... < 1288300295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS-DOS 4.x            - includes a graphical/mouse interface. < 1288300296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version 4.01 (OEM) - IBM patched Version 4.00 before Microsoft released it. < 1288300297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit IBM! :p < 1288300307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You say "and software" so disparagingly: it's not just any software! There's DBLSPACE (well, DRVSPACE after the... unpleasantness), the best way to break a win3.1 installation. < 1288300309 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really, it's the BIOS that determines whether to boot off a floppy or CD < 1288300317 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, I remember that < 1288300317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: bah, 5.0 represent! < 1288300330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it included the full-screen editor and NO ONLINE HELP/DISK COMPRESSION/ANTIVIRUS < 1288300335 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of compression software compresses parts of different files together sometimes, then has editing one of them also edit the other? < 1288300340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also, 6.21 removed DBLSPACE < 1288300359 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the documentation suggested copying and deleting both files in order to un-crosslink them < 1288300363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but 6.22 brought back DRVSPACE. < 1288300377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't suppose you have a floppy marked MS-DOS 5.0? < 1288300382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On your computertron. < 1288300383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cough./ < 1288300386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1288300408 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I visit microsoft.com with Firefox on Linux, and it advertises IE8 to me < 1288300417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind, i've found 5.0 < 1288300420 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then /that/ page advertises Windows 7 to me, so that I can run IE8 < 1288300420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on three floppies < 1288300422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so; I have images of some different 6.x versions. There might be a physical floppy somewhere, but no drives. < 1288300438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.22 came on three floppies too, I think. < 1288300440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear xfce: it is not your right to put files in my ~ that do not start with a . < 1288300443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cease immediately < 1288300452 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sometimes think people come on irc actually expecting to not converse < 1288300455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ rm -rf Music/ Pictures/ Public/ Templates/ Videos/ Downloads/ Documents/ Desktop/ < 1288300464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Desktop magically reappears < 1288300465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that < 1288300515 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, crosslinks are such an ancient problem that even via Google I can't find a description of what they are, any more < 1288300523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: heh < 1288300529 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: rename it to lowercase by mistake, I did that once < 1288300546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Yes, the "Desktop" directory will still be there, but it won't be displayed. You're not forced to use it. Just remove it's contents and it'll be nothing more than an empty directory.]] < 1288300553 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu decided that as it couldn't find /home/ais523/Desktop, what it should really use instead was /home/ais523/ < 1288300556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with these morons thinking that ~ means desktop-environment-share? < 1288300558 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was an interesting decision < 1288300568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: interesting, that works! < 1288300578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: next step: mv desktop /dev/null :) < 1288300582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait < 1288300583 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it blows up on your next boot < 1288300584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, crosslinks are such an ancient problem that even via Google I can't find a description of what they are, any more <-- any idea of what they used to be? < 1288300586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1288300591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I hardlink Desktop to /dev/null... < 1288300593 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a sort of filesystem problem < 1288300597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ugh, no, Desktop just reappeared < 1288300607 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you even hardlink to a character special? < 1288300613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln: creating hard link `Desktop/null' => `/dev/null': Invalid cross-device link < 1288300614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: :( seems not < 1288300619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries a softlink
< 1288300625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, any more details? < 1288300627 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could mknod a /dev/null clone there < 1288300627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ ln -s /dev/null Desktop < 1288300634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Desktop is a directory, think about this for a second and tell me why < 1288300639 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really; they tended to happen on compressed drives, but I'm not sure why < 1288300651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, heh < 1288300660 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you referring to the fact that you created the link /in/ the directory? < 1288300661 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win95 came on 13 floppies; something like Office came on an absurd number of 'em (>20?). < 1288300668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For info on modifying the XDG_DESKTOP_DIR, see http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/xdg-user-dirs .  All of this is set in the default xinitrc for Xfce, located @ /etc/xdg/xfce4/xinitrc" < 1288300669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1288300679 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, you could fix them by hand by copying both linked files, then deleting the originals, then renaming them back into place < 1288300703 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this gives some clue as to what the error actually was, but not enough < 1288300715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I DBLSPACEd my win3.x system disk, and it made win.com just show the logo, eat a little chunk off the corner, then hang. < 1288300742 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, here we go: http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/scandisk.htm#Crosslink < 1288300763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you put everything in ~/research, right? third-party < 1288300767 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how on earth a filesystem can get into that state in the first place < 1288300769 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep < 1288300776 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I modify it so extensively that it's effectively mien < 1288300778 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mine < 1288300785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "Note: To disable a directory, point it to the homedir." < 1288300785 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also, unless it's binary-only < 1288300786 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1288300791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yet another example of stellar freedesktop.org design... < 1288300792 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am running modplug tracker under linux < 1288300795 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel at home again. < 1288300796 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-+( a r c a d i a )+- < 1288300801 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :necros was always good < 1288300805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, i forgot to readd my ignores < 1288300809 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Neverwinter Nights is ~/nwn, not ~/research/nwn < 1288300815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1288300816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noise removed < 1288300819 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how cute < 1288300820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: heh < 1288300827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'd put that in ~/local/neverwinter-nights < 1288300837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: or even /opt/neverwinter-nights < 1288300851 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/research is for thirdparty source, and binaries I compile myself < 1288300856 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's still most of the thirdparty stuff I own < 1288300864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: my architecture is a bit different < 1288300867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to run OpenCP for cubic playe nostalgisms, but it kept crashing. < 1288300869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/saved/YYYY-MM < 1288300871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: everything goes in there < 1288300879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe ~/keep, it depends < 1288300886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: everything that i didn't make, that is < 1288300893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installation ISOs, source trees... < 1288300913 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a good example: Enigma's at ~/research/enigma/svn/enigma/trunk/..., but my "dot directory" for the development version's at ~/enigma-devel, with the stable version having its config at ~/.enigma) < 1288300914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Playe! < 1288300924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Rrrr. < 1288300943 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I also have a separate category ~/research/bulky for things that are very large and don't really need backing up, like gcc tarballs < 1288300957 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or my compiletree for clang < 1288300963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I am still gawping at this: "Note: To disable a directory, point it to the homedir." < 1288300988 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you do that for the desktop, it just projects your homedir onto the desktop < 1288301012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i don't have my desktop visible < 1288301024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Format is XDG_xxx_DIR="$HOME/yyy", where yyy is a shell-escaped < 1288301024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# homedir-relative path, or XDG_xxx_DIR="/yyy", where /yyy is an < 1288301024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# absolute path. No other format is supported. < 1288301025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WJW < 1288301027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even real globs < 1288301040 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why would your desktop be a glob? < 1288301044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i mean < 1288301047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even real variable expansion < 1288301051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't say /foo/$HOME/... < 1288301052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a cheat < 1288301070 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably because the variables aren't sanely known when they need to be < 1288301082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, you can set xfce to show minimised windows as icons on the desktop < 1288301082 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you change your homedir in /etc/passwd while logged in, I wonder? < 1288301091 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: win3.1 did that < 1288301100 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it was the only thing on the desktop, but the backgroudn < 1288301102 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*background < 1288301137 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the help file advised you used a little 16x16 repeating black and (insert one other color here) pattern as the background; you could use an image, but it might make you run out of memory < 1288301144 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :homedir on desktop is not all that bad; I used to have that under intrepid < 1288301154 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to force you to do it is weird < 1288301158 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must have a much neater homedir than me < 1288301160 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: new shells will be affected < 1288301172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: why one other colour? < 1288301173 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: hmm, only new login shells? < 1288301176 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it encourages me to keep it tidy! < 1288301176 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: everything in linux userspace runs under a shell, as i understand. < 1288301179 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could choose which < 1288301181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but why? < 1288301184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: checkerboards are ugly :P < 1288301191 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yep, but shells can choose whether they're login shells or not < 1288301199 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: doesn't matter < 1288301206 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, it rereads $HOME every time? < 1288301209 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: existing shells are existing shells, they have an $HOME < 1288301216 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's an env variable < 1288301216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was also a nice pixel-twiddler pattern editor for the background. < 1288301219 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't it generatei t? < 1288301222 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1288301223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto print (print x) < 1288301223 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (print x) < 1288301227 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that doesn't make sense, I've done a sudo -u to a different user before now without changing $HOME < 1288301237 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's inheriting $HOME, not rereading it from /etc/passwd < 1288301250 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I spent hours with that thing < 1288301250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|print (print hi) < 1288301250 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (print hi) < 1288301250 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you want su < 1288301253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto goto print (print hi) < 1288301253 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (print hi) < 1288301255 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no I don't < 1288301261 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the account I'm sudoing to doesn't have a password < 1288301263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: why are you feeding the troll? < 1288301265 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so su wouldn't accomplish anything < 1288301266 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what you're trying to do then < 1288301277 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because syfm! < 1288301283 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: how would you suggest opening a shell as, say, www-data? going via root? < 1288301289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and/or extreme idiot, it doesn't particularly matter which) < 1288301291 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: just a sec < 1288301321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so let's see, @foo is a server variable? < 1288301325 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sudo -u www-data" bash is the easy method < 1288301331 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1288301333 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, "sudo -u www-data bash" < 1288301334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|print @foo < 1288301334 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: @foo < 1288301334 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@bar < 1288301335 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: < 1288301340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288301341 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# su netdisco < 1288301341 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netdisco@laptop:/home$ < 1288301343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@foo=3 < 1288301343 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 3 < 1288301343 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|print [@foo] < 1288301343 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: 3 < 1288301343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@foo < 1288301344 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 3 < 1288301352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@foo=goto print hi < 1288301352 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: goto print hi < 1288301352 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you were root, that's cheating < 1288301358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|[@foo] < 1288301358 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi < 1288301360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: :D < 1288301365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@foo=print [@foo] < 1288301365 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: print goto print hi < 1288301367 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cd ~ < 1288301367 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netdisco@laptop:~$ pwd < 1288301368 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/netdisco < 1288301369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@foo=goto print [@foo] < 1288301369 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: goto print print goto print hi < 1288301371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: disapprove < 1288301375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@foo=goto print [ < 1288301375 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: goto print [ < 1288301381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@bar=@foo] < 1288301381 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: @foo] < 1288301383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@foo@bar < 1288301384 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: omg u errored teh syntax!!1! < 1288301385 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: just saying, that shows how it doesn't "inherit" $HOME < 1288301388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|[@foo][@bar] < 1288301389 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: goto print [ < 1288301391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~storkbot/BRA < 1288301391 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: [ < 1288301392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1288301394 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~storkbot/KET < 1288301394 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ] < 1288301395 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: well, exactly, it's /su/ that sets $HOME < 1288301400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~storkbot/BRA=foo < 1288301400 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288301402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1288301404 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the shell inherits it from su < 1288301412 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can't set others' variables! < 1288301416 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be HACKING! < 1288301416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: BAH < 1288301416 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: is it? < 1288301429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|hd 1 2 3 < 1288301429 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 1 < 1288301432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|tl 1 2 3 < 1288301432 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 2 3 < 1288301440 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : By default, `su' does not change the current directory. It sets the environment variables `HOME' and `SHELL' from the password entry for USER, and if USER is not the super-user, sets `USER' and `LOGNAME' to USER. By default, the shell is not a login shell. < 1288301445 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copied straight from "info su" < 1288301446 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, you're reading the source! < 1288301450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: how the fuck did you quine the pastie number? < 1288301459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: make a pastie, use the number after that, pastie, hope it worked? < 1288301460 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pastie lets you edit < 1288301463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1288301464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheat < 1288301474 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's why it's not lua-formatted :( < 1288301475 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, when i do sudo -u netdisco bash, it uses the outer user's $HOME < 1288301479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ooh, i just realised something < 1288301479 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only use the std formats on edit < 1288301482 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bastards! < 1288301492 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was wondering if sudo is actually what sets variables < 1288301494 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1288301495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: in my hash-pastebin, that'd be equivalent to finding a string containing its own hash :D < 1288301502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: of course, you could just do read($0).hash < 1288301506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the URL from inside the source < 1288301522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: or even build a quine, and then hash that, in case you don't have file IO < 1288301524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then run it, ofc < 1288301534 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder if there are any known attacks to, say, find strings that contain their own md5 < 1288301539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there's an api < 1288301543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you could probably post the form manually :P < 1288301548 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Note that the default behavior for the environment is the < 1288301548 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : following: < 1288301548 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The $HOME, $SHELL, $USER, $LOGNAME, $PATH, and $IFS environment < 1288301548 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : variables are reset. < 1288301549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i would very much like that < 1288301552 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to be a sort of hash-breaking that isn't normally studied < 1288301558 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that exactly means "su sets $HOME" < 1288301560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: there was some reddit-esque idiocy a while back where people tried to find hex-hash quines < 1288301566 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: that's what the -l option does < 1288301568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: apparently thinking that hashes natively outputted hex < 1288301576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and that this was at all feasible to do if we just SEARCHED REALLY HARD < 1288301581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was just a quine, not a quine plus extra < 1288301586 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott> ais523_: apparently thinking that hashes natively outputted hex < 1288301586 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no < 1288301591 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that's written further down < 1288301592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a sudo flag (-h) to set $HOME to the target user's home; otherwise it doesn't touch it. < 1288301593 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288301602 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps we have different su implementations < 1288301608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, -H. < 1288301608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well they didn't bother to try and hex a base-256 version of it < 1288301613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably more likely to work < 1288301616 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on ubunix < 1288301616 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which su are you talking about? < 1288301624 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ubuntu) < 1288301625 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one's on CentOS < 1288301631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: fizzie said sudo < 1288301636 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, misread < 1288301645 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAVEATS < 1288301645 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This version of su has many compilation options, only some of which may < 1288301645 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : be in use at any particular site. < 1288301647 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense, sudo doesn't set $HOME in my experience < 1288301664 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo doesn't set anything fwik < 1288301664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: sudo not setting $HOME is the cause of the .Xauthority problem, I think < 1288301673 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1288301686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: because it puts it in the wrong place and now root ownz yur X < 1288301686 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it makes sense that www-data or whatever can't pop up windows on /my/ desktop < 1288301691 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if i have this funny little application switcher panel in ubuntu at the bottom < 1288301694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no, that works fine < 1288301698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's just that stuff can break afterwards < 1288301703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to your ~/.Xauthority being written to < 1288301704 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to tile it up vertically and have a small paner with launcher icons? < 1288301705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but owned by another user < 1288301710 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in windows? < 1288301712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can break X on the next boot < 1288301717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure exactly, I just know it's retarded < 1288301728 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could *never* figure out how to do it. < 1288301735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, ~/Desktop magically reappeared even after configuring everything < 1288301747 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: the launcher icons you can do just by dragging them from the main menu onto the space just to the left of the application switcher (you have to be pretty accurate); the rest, I don't know how to do < 1288301761 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try that < 1288301762 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1288301801 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: write a 0-byte file there and chmod 000 it < 1288301814 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll learn xfce < 1288301814 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you try mknodding /dev/null onto the location? < 1288301818 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh ok < 1288301832 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: ok it sort of works, however: my panel is 5 rows high < 1288301842 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this makes the icons super-big, and they line up in 1 row only < 1288301850 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not small and on top of each other < 1288301863 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not sure what to do about that either; configurability was never GNOME's strongpoint < 1288301869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no, I tried to set the xdg thing manually < 1288301871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have listened now < 1288301872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god < 1288301877 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mknod ~/Desktop b 1 3 < 1288301884 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create your own /dev/null wherever you like! < 1288301896 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that seems a little... severe < 1288301915 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd feel like i was walking in a minefield < 1288301916 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this may require root privileges; typing the wrong numbers may end up overwriting random partitions, so make sure you get the right ones first) < 1288301917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know a bash function to output the current prompt? < 1288301921 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, probably c 1 3 < 1288301922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not $PS1, that doesn't "render" it < 1288301927 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: newline < 1288301934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ...to stdout < 1288301946 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's stdout, isn't it? < 1288301955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's not something i can capture from within bash < 1288301963 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start a new bash < 1288301967 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capture that < 1288301971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, -i seems to help < 1288301973 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using... script < 1288301982 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, gnome is sort of crappy like that < 1288301984 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I was about to say that < 1288301984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ echo echo hi | bash -i 2>&1 | head -n -1 | cat -v < 1288301985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^[]0;elliott@dinky: ~^Gelliott@dinky:~$ echo hi < 1288301985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1288301993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to filter out the gunk < 1288302000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1288302002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I used to run a "dd if=/dev/full of=/dev/null" for a while every now and then to balance things out, but it never seemed to help. < 1288302002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERM=dumb < 1288302005 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: probably the easiest way to discover is to start a GNOME vs. KDE flamewar, somewhere, and use it as an example of KDE's superiority < 1288302021 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1288302022 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)) < 1288302032 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that gnome configuration app? < 1288302036 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@foo=foo < 1288302037 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: foo < 1288302041 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: gconf-editor < 1288302043 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|tl[tl[@foo]] < 1288302043 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: o < 1288302049 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@foo=fox < 1288302049 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: fox < 1288302051 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|tl[tl[@foo]] < 1288302051 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: x < 1288302051 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, just came up with it =) thanks < 1288302054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to put the { on a different line to the foo () to declare a function in bash, right? < 1288302055 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Gnome thinks Windows-style registries are, despite all appearances, a good idea < 1288302065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: so does xfce, although lessso < 1288302066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: also kde < 1288302070 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it ever really catches on, we'll have malicious adverts advertising gconf cleaners < 1288302072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: (kde's just happens to serialise to plain text) < 1288302080 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so does Windows' < 1288302081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: (but modifying it is lol) < 1288302089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: true < 1288302106 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: argh, I've just been reminded of the worst hack in my life < 1288302108 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is SO much like windows registry < 1288302117 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have named it gregistry < 1288302133 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was young, and Innocent, and Microsoft was all I knew, and I had a buggy 32-bit compiler < 1288302136 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: haha, i hadn't read your comment before i said that < 1288302152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprunge-cmd () { < 1288302153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo "$1" | TERM=dumb bash -i 2>&1 | head -n -1 | sprunge < 1288302153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1288302153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold < 1288302154 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was writing 16-bit programs, and Excel programs, and 32-bit programs, which needed to communicate with each other < 1288302161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, syntax error < 1288302175 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what sort of music are you into? < 1288302191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: uh oh < 1288302205 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instead of using the normal IPC methods, I used system() equivalents (go go WinExec()!) and passed arguments and return values either in win.ini, or the registry < 1288302219 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1288302221 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice! < 1288302225 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: generally classical, and computer game music < 1288302242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god < 1288302250 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1288302258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: your hack < 1288302263 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it was that awful < 1288302268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things the world needs: An ANSI-colour-supporting pastebin. < 1288302272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Get on it! :P < 1288302275 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my state of youthful innocence, I was sort-of worried it would burn a hole in the hard disk, though < 1288302299 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's especially great about your sprunge-cmd is that if you want to cancel, it's really effing difficult. < 1288302307 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, it's worse, I just remembered what I used it /for/ < 1288302357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can add that to zpaste if you wish, but it's not exactly a public service. Also, so many programs tend to disable colors when they sniff the output isn't to terminal. (I guess most have flags for it, though.) < 1288302364 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was writing a computer game (in Excel; I was once better at VBA than any mortal should be, not that that's a particularly high bar...), and wanted a multiplayer mode < 1288302374 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but both people were playing at the same computer, both watching the screen < 1288302386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, that's irritating though :P < 1288302399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why would you want to cancel, apart from being a nazi? < 1288302406 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ahahahhhh < 1288302410 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the program in question made those images that can only be seen through a red/blue filter and pasted them onto the clipboard < 1288302414 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ls ~/allMyGayPorn OH SHIT NOOOO < 1288302415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i like you < 1288302416 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: a.ma.zing. < 1288302425 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Excel pasted them from there, the idea was that only one of the people would have a red filter, the other would have a blue filter < 1288302433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So don't publicise the URL :P < 1288302438 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't really work, because all the blue filters I had access to were crappy and you couldn't see the text anway < 1288302465 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was still a nice, although faintly ridiculous, idea, though < 1288302469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you are a bad person < 1288302495 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(other uses involved extracting the volume label of the hard disk for trivial-DRM purposes, which apparently can be done via Win32 but not Win16) < 1288302502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I could have a "run-in-zpaste" thing that'd allocate a pseudo-tty and paste that, maybe; then you'd just "zpaste --run ls" instead of "ls | zpaste". I'll try to remember to think of it at a more opportunate moment. < 1288302523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So basically script(1). :P < 1288302531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's okay, my pastebin will be totally better. < 1288302541 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll have blackjack. < 1288302549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: In win16, couldn't you just run the dos command to get the label, and pipe that to a temporary file? < 1288302549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hookers < 1288302556 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, screw the pastebin. < 1288302565 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, i'm going to #linux < 1288302566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the program that copies stdin to the X clipboard? < 1288302570 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet this will be terrible < 1288302571 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this is the sort of disaster that happens when you grow up without knowing of the existence of pipes < 1288302575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Indeed, that is what it will let you do. That is the purpose of the hookers. < 1288302582 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, people say that UNIX is bad, it has nothing on Windows < 1288302590 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even think "surely there's a better way", it's all you're used to < 1288302590 0 :Velmont!odinho@knuth.ping.uio.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1288302601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont is Knuth himself < 1288302606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell by the hostname < 1288302618 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't the knuth be ~before~ the @ in that case? < 1288302619 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i'm doing exactly what you told me < 1288302625 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: expect, i'll use windows < 1288302626 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I have no idea what the emphasis there is < 1288302627 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since windows can do that < 1288302630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO SHUSH < 1288302640 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when did I use tildes for emphasis? < 1288302644 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: come to #linux < 1288302658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, xsel, thanks nobody for telling me < 1288302663 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Knuth is so badass he has his own hostname. Which isn't much of an accomplishment, but ignore that. < 1288302665 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol < 1288302678 0 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288302689 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you're not careful, I'll start surrounding all my comments with hyphens again < 1288302692 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur_ is Agent 129. You can tell by the IP address. < 1288302703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wait what < 1288302713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288302717 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this has been verified by experiment to be one of the creepiest things you can do on IRC without actual real-world knowledge of someone's circumstances) < 1288302725 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklopol is here. < 1288302733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ohh, that, yes < 1288302742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: -You're sitting on a chair.- < 1288302743 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: not obviously < 1288302754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont is in .no < 1288302767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perhaps Velmont is a Norwegian friend of oklopol's < 1288302773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The correct name is .nolandia < 1288302774 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1288302778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, really, someone who capitalises the o in oklopol can't be oklopol's friend < 1288302779 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is great, just not here right now < 1288302781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's too horrible < 1288302784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and offensive < 1288302785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wrong < 1288302788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Velmont should feel bad < 1288302789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps oklopols fly to Norway for winter. < 1288302790 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what's creepy about hyphens? < 1288302791 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps oklopol capitalises it in real life? < 1288302800 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: -just read several pages of someone doing this- < 1288302801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Oklopol Howeveryouspellhislastname < 1288302807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in his realname field he had it lowercase < 1288302807 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-it has a sort of ominous feel to it- < 1288302808 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no no, im agent 128 < 1288302812 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1288302813 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklopol: like INTERPOL, except it's only for Oklahoma. < 1288302814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you have to capitalise and punctuate. < 1288302816 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: omniovorol, IIRC < 1288302822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: -Just read several pages of someone doing this.- < 1288302824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklo Pol, son of Klo Pol. < 1288302829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: -It has a sort of ominous feel to it.- < 1288302839 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: -elliot and I have both done it, it just gets creepier and creepier as time goes on- < 1288302843 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know his real name, I asked him for his nick and he didn't tell me about the capitalization. < 1288302845 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-elliott- < 1288302846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yeah but i spelled it wrong last i checked < 1288302849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I HATE YOU FOR MY NAME EVER < 1288302857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: what's his real name again? I forget < 1288302867 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: double t at the end of a word is hard to type... < 1288302873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: for some definition of hard < 1288302943 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I guess that would be OKLAPOL. < 1288302955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homapol < 1288303032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i finally got my commands working < 1288303033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/eALI < 1288303039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got that url in my clipboard by: < 1288303041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ sprunge-cmd tree -I esoteric | copy < 1288303064 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something so wrong-seeming about having that copy command < 1288303078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: FUCK YOU DOS < 1288303080 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clipboard's a GUI thing, not a shell thing, in my mind < 1288303086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's useful, though < 1288303089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terribly useful < 1288303097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: as is "paste" < 1288303101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ paste | cat -v < 1288303102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1288303112 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are the cat-v people again? < 1288303117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it goes a small way to integrating the silly GUI rubbish into the nice linguistic command processing stuff < 1288303122 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, less > cat-v for viewing binaries) < 1288303126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: cat-v.org is uriel, Plan 9 + libertarian + etc < 1288303129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*etc. < 1288303135 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, uriel < 1288303140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I don't like -v, but I use "cat -v" as a single atomic command < 1288303150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I might alias it to "vis", which was the 8th Edition Unix name for it < 1288303151 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very ironic to name a Plan 9 website after cat -v , isn't it? < 1288303158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: (except it output it slightly different -- \xxx in octal -- but whatever) < 1288303169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well the "name" of the site is "cat -v Considered Harmful" < 1288303176 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont, do you like coding in Python? < 1288303176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *cat-v < 1288303180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is even more self-referential < 1288303189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and the "harmful" section is titled "cat -v" < 1288303193 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these names that means the opposite when abbreviated? < 1288303199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: so i think there's more than a bit of irony/just plain reference going on here. < 1288303199 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes. < 1288303205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, a genuine crazy person < 1288303207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Velmont! < 1288303228 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but Python is brilliant! < 1288303233 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288303235 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, tha's a really bad way of pretending it's not me saying it < 1288303239 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that's < 1288303247 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it serves < 1288303257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you need < 1288303258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1288303258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288303266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no need for , because that's what all your lines start with < 1288303275 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Python is brilliant- < 1288303279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's implicitly closed at end-of-line, obviously < 1288303281 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, it doesn't really work < 1288303281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, reset to defaults < 1288303283 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: aargh, stop it! < 1288303284 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Don't you agree?- < 1288303296 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I can see how that could get awful. < 1288303348 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reference to The Baron, who was a player in an email game that elliott and I each also used to play < 1288303356 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did that in every message he sent, it was really creepy < 1288303368 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288303377 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: http://quick-lounge.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html ! < 1288303401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wasn't it A Nomic he played in? < 1288303404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1288303415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: another similarly horrible thing: < 1288303418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Eliezer_Yudkowsk < 1288303419 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you know I block links, right? even though I'm not on my usual computer or my usual client, so I can see the link perfectly well < 1288303423 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Why? < 1288303424 0 :Eliezer_Yudkowsk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION says, "This is how he talked in all the AI Box emails."
< 1288303425 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not following it out of principle < 1288303430 0 :Eliezer_Yudkowsk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION says, "Seriously."
< 1288303434 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, really? < 1288303435 0 :Eliezer_Yudkowsk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1288303437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yep < 1288303438 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous < 1288303443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: clearly an ex-MUDder or soemthing < 1288303446 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no < 1288303450 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: why do you? < 1288303456 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've invented a language called rainduck. < 1288303457 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just that, it's an ISIDTID violation < 1288303462 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: because they're annoying, and mostly not useful < 1288303462 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION says, "This is how all the cool kids talk."
< 1288303469 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: is it a BF derivative, by any chance? < 1288303478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: here we go: http://www.sl4.org/archive/0207/4689.html < 1288303483 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: this is something that does what i described < 1288303483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ooh, he actually did < 1288303486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION says to bar: "Blah."
< 1288303490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: rather than "bar: blah" < 1288303492 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes, but very different. It's based on ducks instead of numbers. < 1288303511 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has duck typing. < 1288303520 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, sounds like a good start < 1288303534 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sounds like it badly needs an FFI to HOMESPRING, although I don't know how ducks would interact with salmon < 1288303546 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or how you write a nontrivial HOMESPRING program anyway, I'm not even convinced it's TC) < 1288303555 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ISIDTID ? < 1288303566 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: "I say I do, therefore I do" < 1288303568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't trust ducks. They always look like they're planning something. I'm not sure it's a good idea to give them language capabilities. < 1288303588 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine going into a shop, and buying something, but instead of giving the shopkeeper money, you just say, out loud, "I give you money" < 1288303608 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty ludicrous in RL, yet people manage the equivalent all the time in online games < 1288303609 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have no idea how to put Daffy Duck's laugh into text, but imagine that text is here: _____ < 1288303639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I don't trust ducks. They always look like they're planning something. I'm not sure it's a good idea to give them language capabilities. < 1288303642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, what would the point be of that software? < 1288303642 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288303651 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250| I don't trust ducks. They always look like they're planning something. I'm not sure it's a good idea to give them language capabilities. < 1288303652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lol < 1288303654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it slowly < 1288303658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it very slowly. < 1288303662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not that very < 1288303662 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't say it would be fast, just that it would work. < 1288303665 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as slowly as David's ears, in fact! < 1288303665 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gnome doesn't do the things it does, on its own < 1288303671 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: look at the screenshots section < 1288303673 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, that's slightly, isn't it? < 1288303677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but it's slowing down, maybe something's badness < 1288303677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, yes I looked. And? < 1288303682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ooh, i forgot about them! < 1288303684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, I utterly fail to see the use of it < 1288303708 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, both slowing and slighting were involved < 1288303716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, I have some quick launching icons in the top menu bar. To be specific: firefox, thunderbird, gnome-terminal, emacs, kate < 1288303722 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's your problem, then. < 1288303731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, there are loads of space left over < 1288303739 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gnome-terminal, emacs, /and/ Kate? something seems a bit fishy about that < 1288303748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal likes kate because he has no taste < 1288303749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1288303752 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's a combination I use, it just feels wrong < 1288303756 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven't used Kate for a while, actually) < 1288303760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, depends on which language I'm coding in < 1288303767 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1288303776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they are like 24x24 pixels < 1288303783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is a 24" widescreen monitor < 1288303790 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although when you're up to the stage of lua in gedit, Perl in Kate, C in Emacs, it gets a little silly < 1288303791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have absolutely no lack of space < 1288303805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, why gedit < 1288303806 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mostly a Perl in Emacs person, but Emacs' Perl support isn't great and sometime I have to use Kate instead < 1288303822 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it's low-tech, for that notepad feel < 1288303827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, C in kate for me, erlang, lisp and haskell in emacs < 1288303832 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes I just like to edit by hand < 1288303838 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288303846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: gedit has tons of plugins and crap it's far from low-tech < 1288303852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and sometimes I just like to edit by hand <-- ed? magnetic needle? < 1288303852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just bad when extended like that, though :P < 1288303855 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, the way I have it set up < 1288303858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: LEADEN is low-tech! < 1288303865 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even do autoindentation, just old Turbo Pascal-style < 1288303866 0 :lilja_!~lilja@cD96CBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1288303882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I fail to see why you would want to use that then < 1288303884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh < 1288303887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1288303892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidence that oklopol is there grows < 1288303897 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you not a Real Programmer (windows 3.1 version)? < 1288303904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1288303912 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh but you can do that with normal gnome too < 1288303912 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1288303917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lilja_ lends evidence to the proposition that oklopol is wherever Velmont is < 1288303919 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, no. I grew up with classical mac OS < 1288303931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, errr. how so? < 1288303943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lets Vorpal puzzle it out himself
< 1288303950 0 :lilja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is young elliott? < 1288303959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 74 years. < 1288303968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only young in my mind *sniff* < 1288303979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, /me misread that < 1288303989 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note the .no < 1288303992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288304001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: already noted :p < 1288304005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of .no indeed < 1288304013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: i take it oklopol doesn't think we're cool enough to talk to :'( < 1288304015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but what has that got to do with oklopol? < 1288304024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe you meant oerjan? < 1288304028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. < 1288304036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1288304047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is oklopol in Norway now or something? < 1288304061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: please explain to Vorpal... < 1288304101 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He's here with me. < 1288304109 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "It's raining but I don't think it is." < 1288304120 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ? < 1288304128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont, oh < 1288304135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: cpressey is riffing on ISIDTID, I would presume < 1288304137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont, why is he in Norway then? < 1288304138 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's as bad as me resolving a paradox by maintaining publically that my own position, while correct, was unreasonable < 1288304138 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: an example of linguistics that your ISIDTID reminded me of < 1288304143 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1288304146 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from linguistics < 1288304156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ISIDTID? < 1288304168 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: read scrollback < 1288304176 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because lilja_ is doing work for her masters degree here. < 1288304181 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is actually a context where it makes sense -- when you are narrating past events that happened to you, but using present tense < 1288304194 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's 4AM, Thursday. I wake up. It's raining, but..." < 1288304208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey: "I say I do, therefore I do" <-- hm okay < 1288304866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304866 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304866 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304866 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304867 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304867 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304867 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304867 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304868 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304868 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304868 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304868 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304868 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304868 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304868 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304868 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304869 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304869 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304869 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304869 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304869 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304869 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304869 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304869 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304869 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304869 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :cheater_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :lilja_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304870 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304871 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304871 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304871 0 :Quadlex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304871 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304871 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304871 0 :Decarabia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304872 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304872 0 :Chachi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304872 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304872 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304872 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304872 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304872 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304872 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1288304886 0 :lilja_!~lilja@cD96CBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Velmont!odinho@knuth.ping.uio.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028202.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-2-148.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :storkbot!~storkbot@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925108975.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-197-207.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Chachi!~WHAT@97-124-45-71.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :cpressey!~cpressey@12.116.117.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Decarabia!~root@S010600240171528a.ed.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :coppro!~scshunt@unaffiliated/scshunt JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-76.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-212-247.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :lifthrasiir!XFPkaI7P@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :cheater_!~damian@93.190.71.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs78149022.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304886 0 :Quadlex!~quadlex@li23-6.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288304892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside of illicit channels, I know of no way to get a copy of MS-DOS < 1288304892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, "(nef@" < 1288304892 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb clog < 1288304892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an actual ident server? < 1288304896 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why not? < 1288304904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: just, surprising < 1288304927 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the INTERCAL way < 1288304932 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :follow standards everyone else has forgotten < 1288304938 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make things work where others don't bother < 1288304946 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ruin it all by putting an inexplicable cap on the value of constantas < 1288304948 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*constants < 1288304955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS dos 4 01 uk 5,25\" 360Kb » applications other os < 1288304957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wow ^ < 1288304962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so useful! :p < 1288304967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone tell me how much energy U-235 fission gives off. < 1288304974 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 4, I'm not sure which units < 1288305006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 neutrons, or what? < 1288305011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 joules? < 1288305013 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 ergs? < 1288305015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 42, I'm not sure which units but you can convert from ais523's to mine like this: 42x/4 < 1288305027 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1167928332.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1288305054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just downloads DOS 6.22 instead
< 1288305062 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, MS-DOS might still be included in the MSDN cd set < 1288305090 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it was 10 years ago, last time I saw one of those < 1288305092 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288305113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: heh < 1288305119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: iirc MSDNA or whatever it is has it < 1288305121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the academic thing < 1288305125 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MSDNAA? < 1288305125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal mentioned it < 1288305129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MSDNAA < 1288305130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1288305133 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could sign up to that in theory, I think < 1288305140 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't, because it'd be useless unless I ran Windows < 1288305154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, works in wine < 1288305163 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get a windows license too, of course < 1288305166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but you can get all sorts of ridiculous software for free! < 1288305177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also exact offering varies between universities < 1288305180 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's pointless unless I want to actually /use/ it < 1288305187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no it isn't! FUN < 1288305192 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it'd take ages reading the EULA, Microsoft's is really quite long < 1288305202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you even *read actual EULAs*? < 1288305208 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288305210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the ones that are 10 pages printed in 12pt? < 1288305219 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to pretend that I'm surprised that other people don't, because I know they don't < 1288305223 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't be surprised that I do < 1288305235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's for the best < 1288305237 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(admittedly, if I recognise the EULA, I don't reread the duplicate copies) < 1288305250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ais523_ was redesigned without the eccentricities, he would probably take over the world < 1288305251 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some really weird sections in some of them < 1288305258 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the section's in Microsoft's is in French < 1288305276 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the situation would be better for everyone if there was actually *no-one* reading those things < 1288305302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, maybe it only applies to France then? < 1288305314 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: in the UK a while ago, EULAs were ruled unenforceable because nobody actually read them, thus a contract wasn't formed < 1288305323 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to be more precise, because they were designed to discourage being read) < 1288305324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, awesome < 1288305327 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it only applies to Canada, I think < 1288305332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, ah < 1288305352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: so why do you read them? :p < 1288305366 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so I know whether to accept them or not < 1288305373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees MP3 being referred to as "Layer III", lols
< 1288305376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but they're not binding < 1288305385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't care, I respect Microsoft anyway! < 1288305396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the two lower layers being? < 1288305401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: MP1 and MP2 < 1288305407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-1_Audio_Layer_I < 1288305408 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the one above is MP4 < 1288305411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-1_Audio_Layer_II < 1288305413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aren't they outdated formats < 1288305416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1288305423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as opposed to *layers* < 1288305427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, they're layers. < 1288305430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the technical terminology < 1288305433 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose I just don't like lying, even to a computer < 1288305436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because they're all MPEG < 1288305438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but not on top of each other < 1288305442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are different versions < 1288305444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i hate you < 1288305444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the same layer < 1288305450 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1288305452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were I wrong? < 1288305456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : were I wrong? < 1288305458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288305462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you was very wrongs. < 1288305465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was < 1288305467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so they go on top of each other? < 1288305480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY'RE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE *AUDIO LAYER* OF AN MPEG FILE < 1288305492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes that is what I said < 1288305496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what would you do if a dialogue box popped open saying: < 1288305498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, yes but not on top of each other < 1288305498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : they are different versions < 1288305503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What did you not answer this question with? < 1288305509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ This answer ] [ This other answer ]" < 1288305511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and no close box? < 1288305512 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends on the context < 1288305527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the mpeg file has an audio layer < 1288305532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, correct < 1288305532 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have less trouble lying in contexts where it's obvious that I'm potentially going to lie < 1288305535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it can be of the format audio layer 1, audio layer 2, etc. < 1288305539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but layer III is wrong < 1288305541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the audio layer 1 format, audio layer 2 format < 1288305542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO IT'S NOT < 1288305544 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :playing certain games, for instance < 1288305548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not a game < 1288305548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is a version number < 1288305553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's just a program you decided to run < 1288305554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not like layer in the OSI model < 1288305556 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am, incidentally, rather bad at lying, even when I try) < 1288305564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is all I ever disputed < 1288305565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: (presumably intended to have another purpose of that; say the title is "To use this program, please answer the following") < 1288305570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: X_X < 1288305588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, MP3 doesn't go on top of MP2. That is all I said all along < 1288305596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody said it does < 1288305597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1288305597 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd assume such a program was playing games with me; if it was allegedly serious, I'd assume it was some sort of practical joke) < 1288305603 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, correct! < 1288305603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but what would you do? < 1288305605 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, s/\)$// < 1288305621 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends on the context, but likely kill the process under the assumption that the program was malicious < 1288305640 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that be what you'd conclude if apparently serious software started doing that? < 1288305648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you ran a reliable virus scanner/analyser on it and it reported that the program only used create_dialogue_box and duplicate_file < 1288305652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(say, it's a file duplication program) < 1288305664 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make malicious dialog boxes! < 1288305671 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and duplicate files in malicious ways!) < 1288305671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it also gives arguments < 1288305673 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's malicious < 1288305675 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pernicious < 1288305679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create_dialogue_box purely brings up that box, according to the arguments < 1288305681 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why would I be using a file duplication program other than a cp variant? < 1288305685 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all around delicious. < 1288305689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and duplicate_file's first argument is always user input < 1288305693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: also, because you decided to. < 1288305698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: are you sure you kill it? < 1288305711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if that happened to me I would react pretty much as ais523_ and then file a bug :P < 1288305712 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: at this stage, I need so many nested hypotheticals that it's hard to envisage what I'd do < 1288305735 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: also, in this world, the sky is pink < 1288305743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey++ < 1288305744 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and paper is made from frogs < 1288305751 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think the sort of questioning you were trying there was a TDWTF meme for a while, after someone tried it in an interview) < 1288305752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and frogs are actually illegal < 1288305755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, AWESOME! < 1288305765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frogpaper would be sweet, gotta admit < 1288305771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, name a common hard drive size > 100 megs but < 1 gig < 1288305776 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dangling SHALL, there < 1288305782 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean that people SHALL NOT own frogs? < 1288305784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a > 100 meg HD size you might see used with MS-DOS < 1288305787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean frogper < 1288305789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no, frogs are just illegal < 1288305792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the law says < 1288305794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Frogs are illegal." < 1288305802 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what it means for a noun to be illegal, as opposed to a verb < 1288305810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and nobody has dared test it in court yet < 1288305842 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess would be that it would be a method for the government to arbitrarily declare activities to potentially involve frogs < 1288305850 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to create an excuse to arrest people they didn't like < 1288305854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288305882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288305900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : a > 100 meg HD size you might see used with MS-DOS < 1288305904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody wanna take the bait? :( < 1288305921 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200 metric MB would seem plausible, or maybe 240 < 1288305927 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just a guess < 1288305938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: anything bigger? < 1288305952 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :400 metric MB, perhaps? < 1288305953 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still guessing < 1288305954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"240 meg hard drive" "Did you mean: 240 gig hard drive" < 1288305956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no google, i didn't < 1288305959 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to guess some larger numbers? < 1288305964 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I love that correction < 1288305965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not really < 1288305969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quantum 240MB 3.5 inch IDE Hard Drive ProDrive LPS GM24A013 < 1288305969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$331 - 4 stores < 1288305972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well you could go bigger but what would be the point < 1288305974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288305978 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's expensive < 1288305981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so 240 do you think? < 1288305991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, hard to say < 1288305993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, it's old and no longer produced < 1288305995 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm having issues visualising that < 1288306001 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expensive because it's hard to obtain, presumably? < 1288306001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ? < 1288306004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes < 1288306007 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288306010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: they were popular when they existed < 1288306012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Quantum disappeared < 1288306014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1288306028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably selling them at their retail price at the time or something < 1288306029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows? < 1288306034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why did they disappear? < 1288306043 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't they merge with/get bought by seagate? < 1288306043 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: someone observed them < 1288306050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, observed? < 1288306053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, watching? < 1288306053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Corporation < 1288306061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, Heisenberg Corporation < 1288306068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1288306079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you XDing me, i was trying to see how stupidly unaware of ais523_'s joke you could get < 1288306080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD ais523_ < 1288306089 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you gave it away too quickly < 1288306098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: he'd just give up, though < 1288306105 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'twould have worked better if I'd got in before olsner's sensible answer, though < 1288306116 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it rather gave away the existence of a joke < 1288306147 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, this channel seems to use jokes as weapons to prove other people's stupidity/denseness, rather than for actual humour, which is possibly missing the point somewhat) < 1288306173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 'twould have worked better if I'd got in before olsner's sensible answer, though <-- yes it would have worked then < 1288306177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it was now, it didn't < 1288306218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1288306219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo, MS-DOS 6.22 install! < 1288306235 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to run printable hello world programs on it? < 1288306247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, and also write my own, far superior DEBUG.COM-based batch file assembler < 1288306255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and hopefully assemble my DOS 1 on it < 1288306269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, it supports UK keyboards! < 1288306273 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 247 < 1288306274 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :247|* Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288306278 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait /what/? < 1288306283 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 248 < 1288306284 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :248|[spam] Any flavored hell can pee on the pig pen, but it takes a real football team to throw a slyly optimal formless void at a hole puncher. < 1288306290 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 247 < 1288306291 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :247|* Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. < 1288306298 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to the zzo quote? < 1288306299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 246 < 1288306300 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :246| syntax is the least important part of a programming language other than Python < 1288306305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: tl;dr hackego sucks at reverting < 1288306311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently gregor didn't bother to do anything about it < 1288306313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i pinged him about it < 1288306317 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/10/28/carl-paladino-brushes-off-poll-numbers-on-long-island/ < 1288306317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm, is DOS Y2K compatible? < 1288306321 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:46] 22:00:09 247| elliott: Do not trust a computer you cannot throw out of a window. Including the window too far from the rope. < 1288306322 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate humanity < 1288306324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes < 1288306326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i reverted it and shit < 1288306329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not everything worked < 1288306330 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288306334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: and shit, uh, basically, it got messed and still is < 1288306335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if FreeDOS can do UTF8. < 1288306336 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out what that quote means < 1288306355 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was using win3.1 past 2000 < 1288306357 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS worked fine < 1288306362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but did it think it was 1910? < 1288306365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: probably < 1288306368 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1167928332.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1288306369 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but File Manager printed years as 19:0 for 2000 < 1288306373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo, C:\DOS! < 1288306374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ha < 1288306377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, he doesn't really want to let his computer be destroyed < 1288306382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I mean, DOS has recognised it's /10 < 1288306388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm just not sure *which* /10 it thinks it is < 1288306388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1288306390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION inserts disk 2
< 1288306406 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: even with that explanation, I don't understand < 1288306443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a window", taken literally? /em isn't ssure < 1288306443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: tie computer to short rope, throw out window, retrieve computer with impossible strength < 1288306458 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"including"? < 1288306459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION triplefails
< 1288306462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: interestingly, i never noticed that quote doesn't make sense until you pointed it out < 1288306470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "Never use a computer if not X or not Y". < 1288306482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "Including" meaning "the previous condition is violated in this additional case:" in zzo38 < 1288306488 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd expect zzo38 grammar to generally be insanely pedantically correct < 1288306499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it isn't, if you look closely < 1288306504 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and aren't windows windows even if they're too far from the rope? < 1288306527 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could be only marginally connected thoughts < 1288306550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done that before < 1288306591 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I makes total sense when you decode into it < 1288306636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's infecting cpressey! < 1288306677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and aren't windows windows even if they're too far from the rope? < 1288306700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, but you should never use a computer that you can't throw out of a window, or even if you can throw it out of the computer, you shouldn't unless the rope is close enough to the window < 1288306705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: perhaps rope = power cord < 1288306763 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They used power coords in the old days to hang people < 1288306771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some coords came through a time vorte < 1288306772 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1288306778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best use of them was hanging < 1288306794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is in a giggly mood
< 1288306801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE ALWAYS IN A GIGGLY MOOD < 1288306803 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am I, and have been for the last several hours < 1288306812 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel's been so amazing, if not exactly ontopic < 1288306819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1288306825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't notice any additional amazingness < 1288306827 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to relax somehow < 1288306832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what's SMARTDRV and why is MS-DOS running it? < 1288306839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why isn't it booting up further X_X < 1288306870 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SMARTDRV is disk caching < 1288306875 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS doesn't cache at all < 1288306877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it useful at all? :p < 1288306879 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMARTDRV.SYS does < 1288306885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah it has frozen my flrtirt < 1288306886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfksdfj < 1288306888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid dos < 1288306890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid stupiding < 1288306891 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes if your memory is faster than your disk, so no because you're on a virtualised system < 1288306897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/cgi-bin/pdilemma.perl < 1288306898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.perl < 1288306900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl < 1288306901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: err, the HD is still a file < 1288306905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: quite common < 1288306910 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1288306918 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you have caching on your own disk, don't you? < 1288306930 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the outside OS is caching, pointless for the inside OS to be caching too < 1288306938 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you'd be caching caches < 1288306938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: indeed < 1288306948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: more to the point, DOS doesn't work! sad < 1288306964 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both DOSBox and JPC-RR work fine for me < 1288306974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: *MS-DOS < 1288306976 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although both are rather slow; JPC-RR is /incredibly/ slow) < 1288306984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i want original authentic DEBUG.COM! < 1288306992 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that in the same zipfile as QBasic? < 1288306998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i very much doubt it < 1288307002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i want real dos, so nyah < 1288307035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blink tags < 1288307046 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did it have to be blink tags? < 1288307063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: to be honest, i'd rather use ms-dos 5, before stinky CD distribution < 1288307065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there you go < 1288307098 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, was originally added as a joke < 1288307105 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people liked the feature and wanted it to be kept in < 1288307116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1288307117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288307120 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("apparently" meaning "on some webpage I can't remember, and I'm not sure how reliable it was") < 1288307129 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that was javascript! < 1288307132 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers reddit linking to it
< 1288307136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Current date is Thu 10-28-2010 < 1288307140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enter new date (mm-dd-yy):" < 1288307144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no DOS, you got it right < 1288307160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently 10-28-10 is an invalid date :) < 1288307165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, -2010 works < 1288307168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite it being -yy < 1288307170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it wanted -110 < 1288307184 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how to I tell Ubuntu that my FAT32 filesystems should behave as +x on all files be default, like it used to < 1288307190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wow, DOS 3.3 (1987) didn't show :\ in the prompt < 1288307191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A> < 1288307196 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*grambar < 1288307199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.montulli.org/theoriginofthe%3Cblink%3Etag < 1288307203 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's probably an option in /etc/mtab, if I've remembered the name correctly < 1288307206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/cmaam/i_would_like_to_publicly_state_that_at_no_time/ < 1288307209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: fstab < 1288307211 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it didn't show the directory at all < 1288307212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what a terrible url < 1288307217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yup < 1288307218 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in DOS, you use cd to print the current directory < 1288307220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: 3.3 sux P:P < 1288307221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1288307232 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is confusing if you're used to the pwd-prints-cd-homes behaviour of UNIX < 1288307242 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, it's mtab. < 1288307248 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx ais523_ < 1288307254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ? < 1288307259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really not < 1288307262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: mtab is the current state < 1288307264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modifying it won't work < 1288307275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1288307283 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fstab only lists permanent fs's < 1288307286 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a flash drive < 1288307299 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to say "when you mount this", etc < 1288307302 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>? < 1288307307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the end, the thing that I am truly sad about, is that Lynx never did get to blink." < 1288307309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT CAN BE FIXED < 1288307313 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, that's pretty complex < 1288307316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: fstab < 1288307318 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is Lynx still developed? < 1288307321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i think you can tell it not to automount < 1288307327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what's pretty complex? < 1288307334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: also, yes; last stable release was in June < 1288307337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last development release too < 1288307342 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing default settings for USB stick mounting < 1288307356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: windows drive, not usb stick < 1288307358 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that's... great < 1288307368 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I don't know a simple way to do it < 1288307376 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *mine* is a usb stick < 1288307385 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could remount it with different settings, once it's mounted < 1288307393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay < 1288307395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT, I guess < 1288307396 0 :lilja_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288307401 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember how to do that either, but it's relatively easy IIRC < 1288307402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: why not just format it as ext3 >:) < 1288307414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ok, 4.01 is also evilly old < 1288307417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1988 too < 1288307418 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: user numbers are different on different systems you take it to < 1288307426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: clearly we need asciifs < 1288307428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which uses usernames < 1288307429 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not as old as NetHack, then < 1288307432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, also, no non-printable chars < 1288307435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like shar but for filesystems < 1288307438 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, because usernames can differ too < 1288307444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ah, shaddap < 1288307445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like shar but for filesystems! < 1288307445 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should just magically know < 1288307450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better: it's actually a shell script < 1288307456 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, sharfs is a great concept < 1288307457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably one that recreates the directory tree, permissions and all < 1288307464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, in a fixed format < 1288307467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not running sh in the kernel! :P) < 1288307478 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having sh in the kernel would be nice for crash recovery < 1288307490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, but, don't mount the filesystem that way < 1288307494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just parse the shell script according to a fixed format < 1288307501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: this would actually be nice for loopback < 1288307506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you can either 'sh foo.sh' and get a foo/ directory < 1288307508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mount it loopback < 1288307510 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it would actually be a quine, wouldn't it? < 1288307514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: how? < 1288307518 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running foo.sh on a sharfs system < 1288307523 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would create a copy of its source < 1288307530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, it'd... eh? < 1288307539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: foo.sh, when *run*, would create the filesystem on any filesystem < 1288307542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with cat, chmod, etc. < 1288307543 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1288307546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cheese.blartwendo.com/web21-demo.html < 1288307546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: right < 1288307548 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that filesystem is sharfs itself < 1288307549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: if you did < 1288307551 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's making a copy of itself < 1288307555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# mount /dev/foo foo < 1288307558 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the new sharfs filesystem is the same as the old one < 1288307558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cd foo < 1288307561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# sh /dev/foo < 1288307567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd get < 1288307575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo/(files) < 1288307577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and foo/foo/(files) < 1288307595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: how to back up your drive: < 1288307607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# sh /dev/foo && tar-and-compress-etc . < 1288307617 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING: peak scalar flow in deep node < 1288307638 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm suggesting # mount /dev/foo2 /mnt # cd /mnt # sh /dev/foo < 1288307642 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING: also, bad magic. check log for warnings < 1288307649 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, /dev/foo2 is a copy of /dev/foo, assuming it's sharfs < 1288307659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oh, right, it writes changes back < 1288307659 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so /dev/foo is a quine < 1288307660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, yes < 1288307662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: glorious < 1288307666 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I should go home < 1288307668 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye everyonr < 1288307673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: aww < 1288307674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: bye < 1288307674 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1288307676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1288307679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wat < 1288307800 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WARNING: logic not configured < 1288307807 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING: also, too many statements in exp < 1288307812 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1288307865 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debugging this thing is making me a bit mashuga < 1288307901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: rewrite storkbot in |-lang < 1288307905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|with nc -e! < 1288307905 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: omg u errored teh syntax!!1! < 1288307942 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pipe-lang? < 1288307949 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't invented that yet < 1288307952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well < 1288307952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|this < 1288307952 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288307969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: use @ and ~/ for all the variables and stuff and add conditionals and whatnot < 1288307984 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning to make that "Unknown command (for a more interesting response, set ~/snark=1.) < 1288308005 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rewrite storkbot in the language storkbot implements? < 1288308014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes < 1288308024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: write a storklang implementation then write storkbot in storklang < 1288308025 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll... not anytime soon < 1288308030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the original dream you had will be COMPLETE < 1288308057 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :myndzi < 1288308108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nastynets.com/secretstash/blogstuff/2010/10/fingeruser.png < 1288308148 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/b=[~storkbot/BRA] < 1288308148 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: [ < 1288308154 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/b < 1288308154 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: [ < 1288308155 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1288308186 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/k=[~/storkbot/KET] < 1288308186 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: omg u errored teh syntax!!1! < 1288308186 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: < 1288308195 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/k=[~storkbot/KET] < 1288308195 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ] < 1288308197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: oh is that why those exist? heh < 1288308199 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1288308200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: shouldn't they be global < 1288308201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1288308203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@BRA and @KET < 1288308211 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if they were global you could HACK them! < 1288308225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: oh < 1288308229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: make a sys account < 1288308236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wait. < 1288308241 0 :Ilari_!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1288308241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what variables do you have again? < 1288308257 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari_antrcomp < 1288308259 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/foo=goto [~/b]~/foo[~/k] < 1288308259 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: goto [~/foo] < 1288308261 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1288308268 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto [~/foo] < 1288308269 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Out of stack space! Well no, but I stopped it anyway. < 1288308273 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288308284 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|help var < 1288308285 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Help is available for: assignment expressions print goto < 1288308291 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|help ass < 1288308291 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Assign a user-scope variable with ~/foo=1. Assign a server-scope variable with @bar=1. < 1288308294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|[=[ < 1288308294 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288308297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|(=[ < 1288308297 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288308300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{=[ < 1288308302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|{=[ < 1288308302 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: omg u errored teh syntax!!1! < 1288308303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://nastynets.com/secretstash/blogstuff/2010/10/fingeruser.png <-- uh yes? I mean the sexual jokes about that are *old*... < 1288308307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: your language sucks ass < 1288308312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but the specific wording is just too much. < 1288308322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true it is a bit over the top < 1288308332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Considering it's real. < 1288308338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I know < 1288308345 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if by "sucks ass" you mean "rules the ircwaves, too bad it's not documented", I agree < 1288308349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/{=[ < 1288308349 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288308350 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the Swedish translation of OS X is quite harmless < 1288308355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/B=[ < 1288308355 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [ < 1288308359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/K=] < 1288308359 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ] < 1288308369 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1288308375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: make ~/ implicit :P < 1288308375 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't yhink that would work < 1288308381 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i mgiht < 1288308387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might* < 1288308387 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a mouthful < 1288308389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/loop=goto [~/B]~/loop[~/K] < 1288308389 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: goto [~/loop] < 1288308391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/loop < 1288308391 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: goto [~/loop] < 1288308391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerful < 1288308395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|[~/loop] < 1288308395 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Out of stack space! Well no, but I stopped it anyway. < 1288308404 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more cowbell < 1288308405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: goto is basically a retarded [] < 1288308406 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'if' < 1288308420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/loop=[~/B][~/B]~/loop[~/K][~/K] < 1288308421 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [[~/loop]] < 1288308423 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto help < 1288308423 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Help is available for: assignment expressions print goto < 1288308425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|[~/loop] < 1288308425 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288308428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why was it called finger in the first place? < 1288308432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto ~/loop < 1288308432 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [[~/loop]] < 1288308434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: who knows? < 1288308443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/loop=[~/B]~/loop[~/K] < 1288308443 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [~/loop] < 1288308445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|[~/loop] < 1288308445 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288308448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ??? < 1288308450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/loop < 1288308450 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [~/loop] < 1288308453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto [~/loop] < 1288308453 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: omg u errored teh syntax!!1! < 1288308457 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, whoever called it that presumably knows, unless he/she was drunk at the time or similar < 1288308457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: why is that an error? < 1288308471 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: []-expansion is shallow, i think < 1288308481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: make it deep! < 1288308487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: then you can get rid of goto :p < 1288308492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto ~/loop < 1288308492 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [~/loop] < 1288308499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: or get rid of [] < 1288308501 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto foo < 1288308501 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: omg u errored teh syntax!!1! < 1288308503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't goto do it all for you? < 1288308503 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/m=help < 1288308503 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: help < 1288308506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto ~/foo < 1288308506 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1288308509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1288308509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/loop=goto ~/loop < 1288308509 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: goto ~/loop < 1288308510 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto [~/m] < 1288308510 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Help is available for: assignment expressions print goto < 1288308513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto ~/loop < 1288308513 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: goto ~/loop < 1288308514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does it do? < 1288308515 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|[~/m] < 1288308515 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Help is available for: assignment expressions print goto < 1288308516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto [~/loop] < 1288308516 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: goto ~/loop < 1288308532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@x=3 < 1288308532 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 3 < 1288308534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@X < 1288308534 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < 1288308535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@x < 1288308535 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 3 < 1288308541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|@x < 1288308541 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 3 < 1288308544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|help assignment < 1288308544 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Assign a user-scope variable with ~/foo=1. Assign a server-scope variable with @bar=1. < 1288308546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|help expressions < 1288308546 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: All items in [brackets] are replaced by their value, in a recursive, depth-first manner. < 1288308547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|help print < 1288308547 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: To print a string, issue the command 'print string'. < 1288308548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|help goto < 1288308548 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: To evaluate a string as a command, issue 'goto command'. This discards control context. < 1288308559 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto ~elliott/loop < 1288308559 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: goto ~/loop < 1288308573 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your loop would go to mine if... ach < 1288308573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ooh, it doesn't rename variables? naughty naughty! < 1288308586 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rename"? "variables"? these are all just strings < 1288308607 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the contents of ~elliott/loop is "goto ~/loop" < 1288308645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah yeah :P < 1288308649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it should auto-replace :D < 1288308685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this some sort of ZipperFS bot? < 1288308722 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1288308808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ?? < 1288308813 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, i'm not sure how the "task grouping" in gnome panel's app switcher works together with scroll-wheel browsing of open apps < 1288308818 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sort of sucks < 1288308829 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would expect the separate groups to expand dynamically when i'm doing that < 1288308832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one can cd into a lambda-term in bash" this is why oleg is hot < 1288308838 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ......................... NO < 1288308862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo probably doesn't mean the oleg thing. < 1288308870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"… the zipper-based file system looks almost the same as the Unix file system. Unlike the latter, however, we offer: transactional semantics; undo of any file and directory operation; snapshots; statically guaranteed the strongest, repeatable read, isolation mode for clients; built-in traversal facility; and just the right behavior for cyclic directory references. < 1288308870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can easily change our file server to support NFS or 9P or other distributed file system protocol. We can traverse richer terms than mere finite maps with string keys. In particular, we can use lambda-terms as our file system: one can cd into a lambda-term in bash." < 1288308871 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Just because you read about ZipperFS and just because my bot uses a vaguely unix-homedir-like syntax does NOT mean... < 1288308901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "one can cd into a lambda-term in bash" this is why oleg is hot < 1288308905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I meant < 1288308908 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sgeo was reading about it last night, so... < 1288308915 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural assumption < 1288308927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay. < 1288309031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, natural assumption for Sgeo you mean? < 1288309045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1288309054 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, natural assumption that the ZipperFS he was referring to was the one he was reading about < 1288309063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ah < 1288309070 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other assumption here is highly unnatural imo < 1288309078 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yes that is what I meant too < 1288309081 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it was more wishful thinking < 1288309087 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, indeed < 1288309089 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more of a case of < 1288309090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I saw goto somecommand < 1288309107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto goto < 1288309107 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: omg u errored teh syntax!!1! < 1288309114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1288309132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto goto print x < 1288309132 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: x < 1288309134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288309141 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|~/foo=goto [~/b]~/foo[~/k] < 1288309141 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: goto [~/foo] < 1288309147 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|alias goto ls < 1288309148 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ?SYNTAX ERROR < 1288309149 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|goto [~/foo] < 1288309149 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Out of stack space! Well no, but I stopped it anyway. < 1288309176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you spent a lot of time on the error messages eh? < 1288309190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by ls I obviosly meant cd < 1288309192 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I plan to spend more < 1288309202 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, link to source? < 1288309204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by obviosly I obviosly meant obviously < 1288309217 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... this isn't a filesystem, they're just variable scopes that have syntax inspired by a filesystem < 1288309221 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|help ass < 1288309221 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Assign a user-scope variable with ~/foo=1. Assign a server-scope variable with @bar=1. < 1288309231 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|source < 1288309231 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://pastie.org/1254707 < 1288309233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: shouldn't it be /bar < 1288309243 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for global: yes, it probably should < 1288309257 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :product. of. evolution. < 1288309270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it do that, i might as well simulate a filesystem, with ls and cd and all < 1288309282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i approve < 1288309287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: have /source be one of the files there < 1288309289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288309303 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also supposed to be message-level scope, but nothing is complex enough to use that yet < 1288309304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: make changing it -- which root (you) can do -- reload the code in the Storklang implementation < 1288309309 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and channel-level scope < 1288309331 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that will be... not so straightforward yet < 1288309350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1288309356 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have totally changed the way i work with linux. now the launchers are not at the top bar, they're at the bottom left in a grid. i feel like i'm upside down and a little weird. < 1288309364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/?db=comics&id=1994#comic this is amazing < 1288309389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(protip for those who haven't read SMBC before: hover over red button) < 1288309461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: dude have you got MS DOS 5 give it to me or die < 1288309471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i could just convert the IMAs < 1288309600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOO I GOT MS DOS 5 < 1288309626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An .IMA file contains a raw dump of the content of a disk. This format is not compatible with the Disk Copy Fast format but is supported by multiple software vendors, and is the same format as IMG." < 1288309627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1288309648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right it doesn't extract < 1288309667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i need the non-free version < 1288309712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers his mirror matter fantasies
< 1288309771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you fantasise about way too much < 1288309796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't sexual fantasies! < 1288309801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sci-fi fantasy! < 1288309865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1288309888 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing wrong with having an active imagination. < 1288309916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i never said that < 1288309941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this shows the difference to xkcd quite well: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2006#comic < 1288309952 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, xkcd could have done it, but the punchline would have been missing < 1288309970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for once you said something amusing and intelligent! you are accepted into the club. but on a provisional basis only < 1288310027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess I went over your head most of the other times ;P < 1288310032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, i reiterate, hover over the red button (you have no idea how many people don't notice this) < 1288310070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1288310117 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does UK English really spell it "fantasise"? That looks way odd < 1288310273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288310277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ize is always -ise < 1288310297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: also, it doesn't have ambiguity with sizing cans of Fanta < 1288310303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a point you've gotta admit