< 1288483270 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear god, there's a heavy metal version of Pictures at an Exhibition. < 1288483619 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there is. < 1288483630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a heavy metal version of the Teletubbies theme, I'm sure :P < 1288483654 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288483687 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"99% of all California farms are family owned." I like how they carefully chose the metric such that it would sound good. < 1288483693 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change that to farmLAND and it would be awful. < 1288483940 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1288484148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares whether it's families or corporations who own farmland? < 1288484178 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same kind of people who like froo-froo commercials where folksy idiots talk about how they more or less waste their life in an extremely inefficient but subsidized industry. < 1288484191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: <3 < 1288484401 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1288485457 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288485714 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suddenly want to write a shell script which creates a directory, copies itself there, cd's there, and execs that copy < 1288485960 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds trivial < 1288485967 0 :alpha-aquilae!~alpha-aqu@f054054185.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1288485989 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925110102.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1288486055 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how long a script like that can keep going < 1288486055 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1288486068 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so is eating, and i have the urge to do that all the time < 1288486478 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not long, most systems have pathname limits. < 1288486483 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your PWD would get too big. < 1288486510 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1288486532 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you e.g. end up having created a path too long for 'rm' though? < 1288486555 0 :alpha-aquilae!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1288487461 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No. < 1288487775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> Not long, most systems have pathname limits. < 1288487776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> Your PWD would get too big. < 1288487776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symlinks < 1288487799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux has a 4k pathname limit. < 1288487804 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symlinks still have to be resolved. < 1288487810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well, true. < 1288487822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pathname limits are lame :( < 1288487831 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then use HURD. < 1288487845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HURD people argue about what to define PATH_MAX as :-) < 1288487857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define PATH_MAX UINT_MAX /* i would be fine with this */ < 1288487883 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone got any ideas what the icon for an interpreter of a language named Zetaplex should look like? < 1288487892 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That would be REALLY bad. < 1288487900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why? < 1288487900 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Since a lot of people use char path[PATH_MAX]; < 1288487905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, true. < 1288487908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Their fault. < 1288487931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The job of a non-revolutionary system is to run more or less every program that isn't completely and *utterly* written by crack-addled crack monkeys :P < 1288487932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just subtract UINT_MAX from esp! < 1288487935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I know, that doesn't help Hurd build anything. < 1288487944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, nothing happened. < 1288487944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1288487949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh wow < 1288487956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it'd become char path[0]! < 1288487962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: and as we all know, [0] == variable length array! < 1288487969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: therefore path is dynamically allocated Q.E.D. < 1288487979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what type [Right, Left] is
< 1288487980 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhh < 1288487988 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UINT_MAX isn't 0... < 1288488005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits self for failing to work it out
< 1288488006 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: the logo from http://www.zetatalk.com/ maybe? < 1288488019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, but. < 1288488023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Let's just subtract UINT_MAX from esp! Uhh, nothing happened. < 1288488027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hurd is a revolutionary system that pretends not to be. < 1288488032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My logic is impeccable. < 1288488035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And is written *by* crack-addled crack monkeys. < 1288488039 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 'cuz it'd have to align the stack. But that's at the backend, not the frontend. < 1288488049 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I... "list of directions"? < 1288488049 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: lol :P < 1288488058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And, fun fact, allocating 0 bytes doesn't create a variable array either. ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG < 1288488063 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288488065 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOUCHE SIR < 1288488079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell that to lambdabot < 1288488103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: [a -> Either a a] < 1288488114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know < 1288488119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sad I needed to ask the bot < 1288488121 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I did not know this was Haskell < 1288488124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : poiuy_qwert: the logo from http://www.zetatalk.com/ maybe? < 1288488126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the most amazing < 1288488166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh cool she invented nibiru < 1288488192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lieder describes herself as a contactee with the ability to receive messages from extra-terrestrials from the Zeta Reticuli star system" ;; hands up who thinks she decided she was hearing aliens first and *then* looked up a random star system < 1288488194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and asked the aliens for confirmation < 1288488333 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a UINT_MAX sized array (assuming uint and pointers have the same size) would effectively be a -1 sized one :) < 1288488354 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, unless the actual allocation is aligned by the compiler < 1288488393 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all fun and games until you think of the details < 1288488397 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of making the icon relate to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeta < 1288488503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: a zetaplex is clearly the Riemann zeta function < 1288488505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's zeta, and complex < 1288488527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: failing that, just put zetas on every face of a given 3d solid more than a cube < 1288488531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: zetaplex < 1288488707 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really like those ideas, but then again i also need to be able to make it, and it should be recognizable at 16x16 or 32x32 :( < 1288488747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear spammers: Why would I want any sex product where the boy's fingers were frozen off? < 1288488765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut < 1288488770 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im thinking of just doing " Zζ " like in the image on wikipedia. so easy < 1288488776 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subject: Boy's fingers frozen off < 1288488796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Body (minus URL): Let the ladies gossip about the wonderful intercourse they had with you < 1288488870 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-8 < 1288488926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1288489004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pana_Wave < 1288489013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :japan's cults are AWESOME < 1288489111 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't they move to Antarctica during Antarctica's winter? < 1288489119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will help them avoid electromagnetic radiation < 1288489475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: [[Roughly a week before the supposed arrival of Planet X, Lieder appeared on KROQ radio in Los Angeles, and advised listeners to put their pets down in anticipation of the event. When asked if she had done so, she replied that she had, and that "The puppies are in a happy place." She also advised that "A dog makes a good meal".]] < 1288489536 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1288489569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone else put their pets down? < 1288489582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i don't know but lmao < 1288489587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she just wanted an excuse to eat her dog < 1288489589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, call me an asshole, but I just don't quite feel the same about non-human animals that I do about humans < 1288489596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: [[After the 2003 date passed without incident, Lieder said that it was merely a "White Lie ... to fool the establishment,"[10] and said that to disclose the true date would give those in power enough time to declare martial law and trap people in cities during the shift, leading to their deaths.]] < 1288489611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Everyone is going to DIE! Eat your dog! ...ha ha, only kidding. God, Woof was delicious." < 1288490281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What features does my boot sector need? :-P < 1288490289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTHING < 1288490296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It already has nothing! < 1288490307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Well, okay, it does have a diagnostic output that even lets you tell how slow your floppy drive is.) < 1288490315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: boo(o * number of retries made)t! < 1288490326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing if it's never even run < 1288490335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bo if it hangs while trying to reset the disk the first time < 1288490346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo... if it keeps trying to load or hangs or whatever < 1288490351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo(o...)t! if all has gone well < 1288490391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg zzo38 would love the hurd logo < 1288490394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's written in metafont < 1288490407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bo if it hangs while trying to reset the disk < 1288490409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1288490411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd/status/hurd-fvwm-screenshot-2009-11-12.png < 1288490412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUUUUURD < 1288490418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRENCH HIRD FUCK YEAH < 1288490421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*HURD < 1288490537 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think my logo shall be http://oi51.tinypic.com/dy6c74.jpg < 1288490580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: i like it but -- i'd make the text a little smaller so that it doesn't push the edges like that, and also a little higher -- it looks a bit bottom-heavy right now, even though it isn't < 1288490583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just my opinion though < 1288490586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: also, png, not jpg, man! :) < 1288490591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Olaf Buddenhagen, 2009-06-09 < 1288490591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been using the Hurd for most of my everyday work for some two years now" < 1288490595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: guess we've found out your REAL name < 1288490599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now." < 1288490603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: can you believe it? ^ < 1288490616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One particular problem for desktop use is the fact that while X does work, it works very poorly -- it's not only slow and jerky all the time, but also tends to lock up completely. (At least with the local socket transport... Haven't tried whether forcing TCP works better.)" < 1288490616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...??? < 1288490621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you used HURD < 1288490625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy has used hurd for two years < 1288490626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED < 1288490632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses hurd, so you must be the only one < 1288490641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how they're finding out that < 1288490641 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: i'll try your ideas. and it is png, it just says jpg on the image host (i always use png) < 1288490642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shock horror < 1288490642 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288490650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementing unix on top of pure message-passing daemons < 1288490656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all components in separate processes < 1288490657 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288490657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not the quickest thing ever < 1288490679 0 :storkbot!~storkbot@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288490681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stabs poiuy_qwert for misspelling his name
< 1288490684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but ok :P < 1288490729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: #define PATH_MAX ] = dynamic_path(); ""[ < 1288490731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OR SOMETHING < 1288490777 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1288490788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The Hurd servers themselves are multithreaded, so they should be able to take benefit of the parallelism brought by SMP/Multicore boxes. This has however never been tested yet because of the following. < 1288490788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mach used to be running on SMP boxes like the ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel iPSC/860 , so has an infrastructure for running on them. It has however not (yet) been ported to nowadays' SMP standards like ACPI etc. < 1288490789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why for now GNU/Hurd will only uses one logical processor (i.e. one core or one thread, depending on the socket type).]] < 1288490800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Everything is an independent server so it can all be run in parallel! Note: Only one logical CPU supported." < 1288490813 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why yes, Hurd IS a joke of an OS! < 1288490826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *GNU! < 1288490827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kernel! < 1288490830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An kernel. < 1288490846 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why yes, Hurd IS a joke of a Gnu! < 1288492235 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288492357 0 :storkbot!~storkbot@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288492626 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288492644 0 :storkbot!~storkbot@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288492651 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288492673 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288493100 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1288493227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it that IE must make web design so damned hard? < 1288493241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it doesn't, it only makes web design for IE hard < 1288493396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.boingboing.net/2010/10/30/you-cant-tell-your-u.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Boing%29&utm_content=Twitter < 1288493400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1288493414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid awesome ideas spoiled by reality and Microsoft's decisions < 1288493456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that awesome idea looks like an ergonomic nightmare < 1288493504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too :( < 1288493511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wires can fix tha < 1288493512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1288493555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: in no way more anonymous < 1288493558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact less secure < 1288493563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and location-specific < 1288493564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a stupid idea < 1288493695 0 :storkbot!~storkbot@99.96.163.210 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288493782 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's FUN < 1288493791 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288493797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for stupid autorun and that one piece of malware that doesn't even require autorun < 1288493833 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288493982 0 :storkbot!~storkbot@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288494115 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288494133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The problem with my boot sector is that all the booting fun happens in the OS itself :( < 1288494500 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288494703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera forgot my settings! < 1288494706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU < 1288494718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it < 1288494722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the last straw < 1288494781 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1288494865 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I would think the last straw would be shortly after installing Opera, when you realize it's not a good browser. < 1288494883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It handled Reddit and ANGEL nicely! < 1288494892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the SL Marketplace login < 1288494901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera > Chrome with those three sites < 1288494905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's amazing how far Opera's got on having awesome people as employees and claiming to be super-standards-compliant. < 1288495010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome still has its usual Reddit issues :( < 1288495119 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288495122 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that is but one of many straws < 1288495179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are there any good browsers? < 1288495192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome absolutely SUCKS with Reddit < 1288495198 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Even IE9 is better than Opera. < 1288495206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has Firefox improved any? < 1288495214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Firefox any less of a hog these days? < 1288495219 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1288495221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically all of them fail hardcore at many cases of 100% valid HTML 4. < 1288495238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Firefox 4 appears to be less of a hog, but that's in beta. < 1288495254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome is fine with reddit < 1288495256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely fine < 1288495267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no. It is not. < 1288495272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. yes it is < 1288495274 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to open a bunch of comment tabs < 1288495283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1288495286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tab with the main page freezes while the others load < 1288495291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1288495296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your machine/compilation/whatever sucks < 1288495307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This happened on the old laptop too < 1288495314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: E_WORKSFORME < 1288495321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: E_HERES_A_NICKEL_KID_GO_BUY_A_REAL_COMPUTER < 1288495335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running at 1.2 ghz, ultra-low voltage, and chrome handles a hundred tabs just fine < 1288495340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use Midori now, but I did use Chrome.) < 1288495349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's an Internet connection speed thing. Slow down your Internet connection, see if the issue comes up < 1288495355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1288495356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1288495360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internets do not work like that < 1288495379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it would be a browser fault < 1288495384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Didn't happen when my packets went to orbit and back. < 1288495387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But might not be noticable on a faster connection < 1288495392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, huh < 1288495410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why TF is this happening to me? < 1288495431 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1288495436 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's UI is annoying, Firefox is a hog unless you have a computer made of COMPUTER, Safari is fine except for the Applism that makes its UI even worse than Chrome, IE9 is actually pretty good if you can get it into its magical standards-compliance mode, Opera is crazy-fast and light but painfully uncompliant, uhhh, what am I missing? < 1288495451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, then there's a whole family of WebKit browsers that aren't Safari, and those are mostly OK. < 1288495464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're usually unpolished though < 1288495473 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1288495491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you forgot the faux-minimalist Arch user penis-enhancing non-browsers that try to be as unusable as possible because of the idea that this is the Unix philosophy < 1288495507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind Chrome's UI < 1288495507 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I choose not to believe they exist :) < 1288495518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do mind its issues with Reddit < 1288495524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back to using Chrome, because it works without crashing. < 1288495529 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Chrome have a safe mode I can try? < 1288495545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though its non-standard UI *is* annoying. < 1288495579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome is nice if there's a theme that integrates it with your DE. < 1288495583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Ubuntu's default theme. < 1288495618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a number of annoyances in Midori's UI. < 1288495626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, its behavior when you close a tab. < 1288495629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also, it crashes all the time < 1288495639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It always goes to the tab to the right. < 1288495645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Ctrl+N new window opens in background if you have tabs-open-in-foreground disabled < 1288495646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always. < 1288495654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Even if you have no tab to the write? :P < 1288495655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right? < 1288495664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then and only then does it go to the left. < 1288495702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is especially annoying when you would like to *go back to the tab you were on previously*. < 1288495733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1288495754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, its key binding for switching tabs is annoying. < 1288495756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must < 1288495759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dehabit < 1288495761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-Shift < 1288495765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-Pgup and Ctrl-Pgdown? WHY WOULD I WANT THAT < 1288495778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i've actually got used to that :P < 1288495840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it was doing this annoying thing where it would actually jump down about a screenful upon the page fully loading. < 1288496060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bizzare scrolling behavior is Opera's forte < 1288496100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And incredibly bizzare text selection behavior < 1288496127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The always opening new tab to the right of current one was nice, though < 1288496310 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't they all do that now, though? < 1288496323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera does that even on Ctrl-T < 1288496329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I've found handy on occasion < 1288496784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to download Factor
< 1288496787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been too long < 1288497836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which album of Pink Floyd's was it that you said was only any good because of a single song on it? < 1288497909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Meddle, because of Echoes. < 1288497912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, I just mentioned Echoes. < 1288497919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah. < 1288497933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The only even semi-decent song other than Echoes is One of These Days. < 1288497973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest are: a love song, a bad football fanboy song, a TROPICAL JAZZ SONG (not joking -- waters wrote it entirely himself, that probably explains it), and a song where A DOG BARKING FORMS THE VOCALS < 1288498000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOB2_u87fo < 1288498001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DOGSONG < 1288498050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Who Let the Dogs Out better? < 1288498055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1288498057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has structure. < 1288498096 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO. WHO; WHO; WHO. < 1288498108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i do not think that song was composed with semicolons < 1288498109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION actually kind of likes Who Let the Dogs Out, partially nostalgia maybe, but I have the impression that a lot of people dislike it
< 1288498120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a terrible song. < 1288498126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like what I've heard of Nickleback < 1288498144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the lyrics are objectionable -- I am able to hande that < 1288498157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with Nickleback is not that any one song of theirs is terrible. The problem is that they don't have a second song. < 1288498161 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one song I like that has sentimental-seeming lyrics that are really just horrible < 1288498176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a Nickleback song) < 1288498178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nickleback *are* *objectively* *terrible*. < 1288498187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ANYONE* who likes Nickelback HAS NO EARS < 1288498189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Nickelback < 1288498232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The point I was trying to make is that they are probably the most samey group out there... < 1288498241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZrWY8s73tk The lyrics are pretty... bleh, especially when it's clear that it's abusive, but still < 1288498242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh yes. < 1288498248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And their one song is terrible. < 1288498254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They're terrible because they are far far too consistent. < 1288498274 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1288498278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Man, you know... Never listen to Tool. < 1288498287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying I can hear the same melody, with different lyrics??? < 1288498301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you find it hard to *LISTEN TO A SONG* because of *SOME LYRICS*... never, ever listen to Tool. Or... or many bands < 1288498320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although this one has nostalgia value < 1288498338 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, link me to a Tool song < 1288498354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You should just avoid music with lyrics. < 1288498354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION optimises for Sgeo's squick organ
< 1288498356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDJgKxLNsJE < 1288498382 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I like Libera. I know the music is likely religious, but it's mostly Latin, so I don't care < 1288498388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, it helps me not care < 1288498400 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 1962 Lincoln Convertible -- *that* has nostalgia value. < 1288498480 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what do you think of Garbage? < 1288498486 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious now. < 1288498491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhh? < 1288498522 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The band called "Garbage", and their music, in case the context wasn't clear. < 1288498535 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of them < 1288498542 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. < 1288498548 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1288499029 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are siamese if you please < 1288499037 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are siamese if you don't please < 1288499052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: xD < 1288499294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines a language where you don't have to look ahead to understand what's going on at any particular point
< 1288499313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: natural or prog < 1288499317 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prog < 1288499320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy < 1288499338 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor doesn't count as doing it, btw < 1288499369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks Sgeo is confused
< 1288499385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 0 < [ stuff ] if < 1288499388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ANNOYING < 1288499399 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with bi and tri < 1288499411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1288499412 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, anything with mutual recursion is going to have temporarily unresolved forward references < 1288499440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....am I asking to kill lambdas? < 1288499465 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're sort of asking to break nesting's legs < 1288499571 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders what it would take to have a thingy in Factor that enforces functional purity in marked ... words
< 1288499599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add a "this is impure" marker to words that have side effects? < 1288499625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Wait, how is dynamic scoping implemented in Factor? < 1288499626 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know to what extent Factor supports the kind of metaprogramming that would let you do that < 1288499787 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU COULD TOTALLY DO IT IN FALCON (note: bullshit) < 1288499813 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still awaits Falctorn.
< 1288499895 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think maybe the thingie could be generalized < 1288499909 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "thingie" is already pretty general < 1288499987 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean is, (compose-with-property p x y) creates a new object z, out of x and y with property p, iff both x and y have p. < 1288500017 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p being something you're born with, if you're a builtin function < 1288500024 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er thingie, not function < 1288500069 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if p = functional purity... yeah < 1288500143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: that's just tags, in one of my type systems < 1288500173 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also could be polynomial time or something. yes it can be implemented very simply. < 1288500191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: e.g. < 1288500197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print : string -> void [io] < 1288500204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you call print, you're [io] too < 1288500207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can use it as a pure value < 1288500208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1288500209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print read_line < 1288500210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1288500213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's : void [io] < 1288500221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or : void [stdin,stdout], for instance < 1288500230 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ooh, interesting < 1288500245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: thanks :p < 1288500253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: still has creases to be edged out. or something. < 1288500266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, you linked me to something about vertical vs. horizonal polysomethingism or whatnot a long time ago, do you have it? < 1288500277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i... maybe if you're more specific! < 1288500290 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I have no clue what that would actually mean for something /other/ than [io], so that's why I'm intrigued < 1288500301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, e.g. < 1288500308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modifies_state_variable $foo < 1288500311 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was about how you can easily define new operations in functional languages and new types in oo languages, but not both < 1288500315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set $foo 3 : void [modifies_state_variable $foo] < 1288500323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set $foo read_line : void [modifies_state_variable $foo, reads stdin] < 1288500325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of thing < 1288500329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this quickly gets dependent-typey < 1288500331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ahh yes < 1288500347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: let me try and find it :) < 1288500352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how does that benefit the programmer? < 1288500361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: like haskell's io but less evil < 1288500364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you call something without any tags < 1288500366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you KNOW it's pure < 1288500373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the api defines the effects < 1288500379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just of the pure component < 1288500384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also specifies any statefulness < 1288500387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fully < 1288500393 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hrm... smells of Java exceptions < 1288500399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1288500404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not any more than haskell's IO or State is < 1288500415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: gah i'm trying to think of that article < 1288500449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep logs ftw? < 1288500486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's what i'm going to do :) < 1288500503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./08.07.17:17:14:31 GRAR SCHEME GRR SGLASGJ SHITTY UNDERPOWERED TOO MINIMAL GRR RARG < 1288500556 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the libraries are numbered. so wrong with that < 1288500576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it's so versioning < 1288500582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ABI-incompatible = new package < 1288500608 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1288500711 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288500876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is absolutely nothing wrong with so versioning aside from people being able to fuck it up. < 1288501021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: FYI, NetBSD Linux emulation does not appear to be up to the task of running Debina. < 1288501022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Debian. < 1288501037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Aaaaw. < 1288501043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Any idea what the problem is? < 1288501053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: something thinks the kernel is too old -- probably glibc < 1288501082 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: FYI, NetBSD Linux emulation does not appear to be up to the task of running Debian. // wow < 1288501104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I MAY HAVE BEEN GETTING DEBOOTSTRAP TO WORK ON NETBSD WITH CATSEYE FOR THE PAST FEW HOURS < 1288501115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think I can get it to work by recompiling glibc with --enable-kernel=2.4 < 1288501116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... OH RIGHT. < 1288501119 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have not been paying attention :P < 1288501123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It was in /msg < 1288501126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NetBSD emulates Linux 2.4. < 1288501127 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1288501133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right. < 1288501136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So I just need to recompile glibc. < 1288501143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH WILL BE TOTALLY FUN < 1288501154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Thankfully I can do it on this, my actual Debian installation, and then upload it... < 1288501224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm. GCC won't be affected, right? < 1288501241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wait, which version of NetBSD? < 1288501245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 5.0.2 < 1288501255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And let me tell you, NETBSD SUCKS HOLY SHIT < 1288501260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: dpkg. < 1288501261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dpkg really sucks. < 1288501263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dpkg's source code is insane. < 1288501266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has its own malloc. < 1288501272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait waht < 1288501274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses "strnlen(s,n)" which is just max(strlen(s),n) < 1288501280 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1288501282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then has a portability library defining it, but that library DOESN'T WORK < 1288501291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's a malloc without free using, uh < 1288501293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ob somethings < 1288501294 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the what you learn when beating your head against a wall like this: fantastic < 1288501303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could wait for NetBSD 6. < 1288501306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 [ V{ } 5 suffix! clone . ] times < 1288501307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see, it has driven catseye mad < 1288501309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OH JOY. < 1288501316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wth < 1288501322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does Linux 2.6! < 1288501323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just want Debian/NetBSD! (Not kNetBSD, NetBSD.) < 1288501359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drop the clone < 1288501384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suffix! adds the 5 to the empty vector < 1288501387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. prints < 1288501396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, next cycle, you see that the original 5 is still there < 1288501399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, why does it have its own malloc? < 1288501410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to Python's nuttiness, really < 1288501413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: because it's more efficient for some database thing... it's just based on ... obtree? no < 1288501416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oblist? no < 1288501430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obstacks < 1288501435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstack < 1288501437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's based on obstacks. < 1288501441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what language is that? < 1288501445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, Factor < 1288501456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's even crazier considering glibc has them. < 1288501462 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need those cycles that obstack shaves off using the heap, man < 1288501464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It uses glibc's. < 1288501473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It also has its own implementation of them, for compatibility. < 1288501478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This implementation inexplicably doesn't get linked. < 1288501478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *sigh* < 1288501480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why. < 1288501498 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because crazy that's why < 1288501498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I love the pattern of use fancy API to do something and then rewrite it with less fancy APIs for portability, but still wrap it up in the fancy API for no reason at all. < 1288501504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY NOT JUST CODE WITH THE PORTABLE API DUMBFUCKS < 1288501508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't CARE how fast dpkg is. < 1288501521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updating Debian takes some amount of time; it could take twice as long and I would not really care one bit. < 1288501530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly doubt memory allocation is a bottleneck anyways. < 1288501545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network and disk bandwidth, sure, but memory allocation? < 1288501558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait, you don't have the BD-ROM release? < 1288501559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not?! < 1288501561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1288501619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Even then disk bandwidth would be a bottleneck. < 1288501656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uhh, don't you use a RamSan? < 1288501665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ramsan.com/products/4 < 1288501665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1288501673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well that's not the recommended configuration, then! < 1288501677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We optimise for that only./ < 1288501680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1288501702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not optimise for a more useful usecase? < 1288501713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uhh, sarcasm alert? < 1288501715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, a stock IBM PC. < 1288501727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think that runs Linux :P < 1288501738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are any of the 16-bit Linux ports maintained? < 1288501747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "maintained". < 1288501844 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288502004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no 16-bit Linux forks. Calling ELKS a Linux port is kinda silly :P < 1288502050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does uclinux run on anything <32 bit? guess not < 1288502060 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1288502063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELKS is beyond awesome < 1288502070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the one that uh < 1288502078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses "NOP" after an instruction to do error checking? < 1288502087 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea :P < 1288502103 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor only runs Hurd you see < 1288502145 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any 16-bit NetBSD ports? there so must be < 1288502168 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually doubt even that. < 1288502196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+Compiling the GNU C library yourself requires a lot of resources. For < 1288502196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+a complete build using dpkg-buildpackage you need at least 750MB free < 1288502196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+disk space and at least 16MB of RAM and 32MB of swap space (if you < 1288502197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+have only that much you're better off not running X at the same < 1288502197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+time). Note that the C library on the Hurd is also somewhat larger: < 1288502197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+you'll need over 800MB of free disk space to build Hurdish packages. < 1288502198 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It actually doesn't support all that many CPUs, just a lot of hardware architectures) < 1288502199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ^ < 1288502258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57 platforms, 15 CPUs. < 1288502294 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yehhmm < 1288502296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it support more CPUs than any single Linux distro except maybe Linux From Scratch. < 1288502297 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Where we count big and little endian versions of things as different CPUs, and nearly-identical 32- and 64-bit things as different CPUs. < 1288502301 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really it supports like 10 :P < 1288502308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though Linux itself supports more CPUs) < 1288502387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 10 cpus, what a lame accomplishment :P < 1288502406 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the GNU C library really large? < 1288502419 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: peanuts! < 1288502422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No, it is tiny. < 1288502429 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of GNU packages are extra-large < 1288502434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not libc. < 1288502436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The libc is tiny. < 1288502437 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288502444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As small as the BSD libcs. < 1288502453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Lies. < 1288502455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then why does it require lot of resources to compile it? < 1288502467 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 750M of disk space really a lot? < 1288502467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The C compiler is very complicated and does clever things with the code. < 1288502476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could compile it faster and with less space using another compiler. < 1288502484 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 32M of swap space really a lot? < 1288502530 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might suggest writing the C library using assembly language for the processor you are on, and use the C library written in C only for computers that do not have the one written in assembly language. < 1288502549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A lot of glibc is assembly. < 1288502674 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: while you are compiling that, i will screw around with building another netbsd-on-a-stick! < 1288502694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: wooooooo < 1288502721 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of these functions could be inlined assembly codes by C macros. < 1288502735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Please tell me what it is that makes Debian users so pissy X_X < 1288502749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typical #debian intercourse: < 1288502751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how do I-- < 1288502754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : !dpkg dpkg dpkg < 1288502757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [unhelpful] < 1288502760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok, but how do I < 1288502763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : READ THE MOTHERFUCKING FACTOID < 1288502768 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They are on IRC :P < 1288502775 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1288502915 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It dawns on me that the word "factoid", by its construction, should refer to something which resembles a fact, but is not actually one. (cf. humanoid) < 1288502954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factoid is a sillyism of fact < 1288503085 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quasimetafactoid < 1288503109 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, what is a quasimetafactoid? < 1288503461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--enable-kernel=2.4... < 1288503503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You used Gentoo. < 1288503507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How long does glibc take to compile? < 1288503512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hour or so. < 1288503516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh joy. < 1288503519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: On what kind of machine? < 1288503537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 3-core AMD, ~2.6GHz. < 1288503541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HAHAHAHA < 1288503547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 2-core Intel Core 2, 1.3 GHz. < 1288503548 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what elliott said < 1288503557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SO. LOOKING. FORWARD. TO THIS. < 1288503573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A lot of the time used comes from their usage of recursive make. < 1288503585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You could propagandise ANYWHERE :p < 1288503588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1288503608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's the most retarded use of recursive make ever. < 1288503610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --without-selinux \ < 1288503611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(call xx,with_headers) $(call xx,extra_config_options)) < 1288503612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA FOUND YOU < 1288503616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--enable-kernel=2.4 < 1288503621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it have to be 2.4.0? < 1288503638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Make on a fully built glibc tree can take 10 minutes just to realise it doesn't have to build anything. < 1288503743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does -jN work? < 1288503819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait, you're on Debian, right? < 1288503836 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think there might be something wrong with it if it takes a a really long time to compile. < 1288503850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's gcc's fault. < 1288503852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All gcc's fault. < 1288503853 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288503854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU libc is tiny. < 1288503856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely tiny. < 1288503859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Recursive make makes -jN work much less well. < 1288503866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're on Debian, right? < 1288503871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. < 1288503874 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there might be something wrong with gcc then. < 1288503882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Feel like building glibc? < 1288503897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, come on; if you do it, we get DEBIAN RUNNING ON NETBSD < 1288503920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fuck no, I hate using glibc's build system. < 1288503922 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My C programs don't take an hour to compile, even the large ones don't take more than a few minutes. < 1288503942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Good. debian-buildpackage does it for you. < 1288503960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Say wait. < 1288503964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian uses eglibc. < 1288503967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yup. < 1288503970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has for... a year now? < 1288503972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe more. < 1288503977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other things, eglibc redoes the entire build system. < 1288503978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is eglibc? < 1288503985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really? 'cuz it still seems to suck. < 1288503991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It sucks less. < 1288503994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Embedded GLIBC. Basically glibc minus its maintainer, Ulrich Drepper, who is a moron. < 1288504017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A fork of glibc that's kept in sync with glibc mainline, but with a lot of niceties added that Ulrich Drepper was too much of a moron to allow. < 1288504020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: $ mkdir glibc-build; cd glibc-build; dget http://security.debian.org/debian-security/pool/updates/main/g/glibc/glibc_2.7-18lenny6.dsc < 1288504027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Also, it doesn't have Ulrich Drepper. < 1288504028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can't resist at least downloading it... < 1288504032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Meh.' < 1288504038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh come on man. < 1288504040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can't do this to me. < 1288504065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've built enough things this decade. < 1288504078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, let me elaborate. < 1288504090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I JUST SPENT HOURS GETTING DEBOOTSTRAP -- WORST-DESIGNED BASH SCRIPT EVER -- TO RUN ON NETBSD < 1288504097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IT NOW HAS LIKE 30 DEBUG MESSAGES < 1288504105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: THE ONLY BLOCKER TO A FULL DEBIAN SYSTEM RUNNING ENTIRELY PERFECTLY ON *NETBSD* < 1288504109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IS ONE LIBC COMPILE < 1288504112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU COULD BE FAMOUS < 1288504116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO IT! DO IT... NOW! < 1288504232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or at least give me a set of Linux 2.4 headers. < 1288504349 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION so desperately wants a C compiler for System V :(
< 1288504365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SYSTEM V? Fuck that shit! FIRST! EDITION! UNIX! < 1288504393 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SYSTEM FIVE < 1288504405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Unix? Fuck that shit! PABST! BLUE! RIwait. < 1288504428 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OS/2 WARP 4 < 1288504447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WARP 10 < 1288504456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUDDENLY, OS/2 DEVOLVES INTO FREAKISH LIZARD THING AND MATES WITH THE CAPTAIN < 1288504463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEAVES SPAWN ON HOSTILE PLANET, RETURNS TO SHIP < 1288504467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN < 1288504475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And THAT is why OS/2 was discontinued. < 1288504478 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1288504488 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had OS/2 Warp once. < 1288504502 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had all those fucking floppies < 1288504504 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never worked. < 1288504541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: summary of computing. < 1288504670 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1288504847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay seriously < 1288504849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: GLIBC < 1288504850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUILD IT < 1288504868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :いいえ。(îe.) < 1288504870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um hey < 1288504872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor < 1288504877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can i get linux 2.4 headers for i386 < 1288504878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on debian < 1288504879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just < 1288504880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just curious < 1288504899 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a clue. < 1288504902 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Linux 2.4 :P < 1288504979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can you motherfucking believe that 2.4 is still maintained? < 1288504988 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can motherfucking believe it. < 1288504990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I EXPRESS MY DOUBT AT THE NOTION THAT YOU CAN MOTHERFUCKING BELIEVE IT < 1288505019 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A man has a right to his motherfucking beliefs < 1288505033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: FUCK < 1288505033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU < 1288505073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: whut, linux 2.4 source tree has only arch/ crypto/ Documentation/ and drivers/ folders < 1288505082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU < 1288505105 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say "folder" D-8 < 1288505112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well < 1288505112 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's under arch/ < 1288505114 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOLDERS DON'T FOLD < 1288505114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: in file-roller < 1288505117 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're fucking DIRECTORIES < 1288505117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's folders! < 1288505122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's all graphical gnome bullshit < 1288505125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did 2.2 stop being maintained? < 1288505128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i say so < 1288505141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: architectures < 1288505151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wish arch/sh/ was a port to the POSIX shell. < 1288505157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2004. < 1288505158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1288505158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1288505162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are more directories < 1288505165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file-roller is just retarded < 1288505183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, 2005, *technically*. < 1288505192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newest version of 2.2 is 2.2.27-rc2. < 1288505200 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl@rc2 < 1288505225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linus is actually working on 2.2.27 as we speak. < 1288505229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be the greatest. Linux. EVER < 1288505242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me you're joking. < 1288505301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why? Wouldn't that be AMAZING? < 1288505333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey guys, I decided 2.4 onwards is faggy bullshit and I've been working on 2.2 for a few years. Here's the current tree. It runs Flash without lag. Natively. On x86-64. I ported the machine code manually." < 1288505335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... The newest version of 2.0 came out in 2004. < 1288505342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for suffix of object files... configure: error: cannot compute suffix of object files: cannot compile < 1288505345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CANNOT COMPUTE BEEEEEEEEEEP < 1288505346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I would love that. < 1288505374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually. < 1288505381 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your object files end with fail < 1288505385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "I've actually had my secretary reply to lkml email for a few years, what have I missed? Ha ha, just joking, I don't give a fuck. You're all idiots." < 1288505428 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all < 1288505446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Hey guys, I just made 2.8.0. You may also know it as 2.2.27." < 1288505455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No way. < 1288505471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "I also decided, what the fuck is up with this 2.2 bullshit? It's way better than anything else called 2.x. So, fuck it, here's Linux 3." < 1288505480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288505516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "The tarball is http://kernel.org/linux3.tgz, because (1) I don't care about your shitty website organisation scheme, and (2) I don't care about your long filenames and crap. I suggest you replace http://kernel.org/ with a link to it because DAMN is that site one major boner-kill." < 1288505552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, and what the hell were you guys smoking with that ALSA crap? I backported OSSv4. Took me a couple hours." < 1288505572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YOU'RE DOING IT ALL WRONG: < 1288505599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Oh, I started maintaining OSS too. I had it checked out in my source tree and didn't really notice it wasn't some of my drunk code. Features added include multiple processes writing to /dev/dsp at once, etc" < 1288505605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSS 3, that is. < 1288505607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288505618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--enable-kernel=2.4 --with-headers=/home/elliott/libc/glibc-2.7/debian/include --enable-kernel=2.6.8 < 1288505619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1288505762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/libc/glibc-2.7/build-tree/glibc-2.7/configure: line 3326: i486-linux-gnu-gcc: command not found < 1288505847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "I've also updated the USB stack because it sucked. It's 3,000 lines now." < 1288505852 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pkgsrc.se/chat/irssi "Irssi is an IRC client that could be pretty awesome someday, maybe." < 1288505859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 2.2 had a sane USB stack. < 1288505871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: worst description ever < 1288505874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But was it 3,000 lines? I think not. < 1288505885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Lemme check. < 1288505922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288505941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: what is it with ... people and inability to summarise programs? < 1288505946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as meaningless words like "modular" < 1288506023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 48,000 lines for the entire thing, including all the drivers. < 1288506071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 3,000 in Linux 3. < 1288506075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No point in the version.) < 1288506077 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: doit < 1288506082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A reasonably functioning USB implementation, though, could be had in about 8,000 lines. < 1288506086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ?? < 1288506090 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DO IT NOW < 1288506094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do what < 1288506105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(USB protocol + OHCI + UHCI + HID) < 1288506105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IT! < 1288506119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to see American TV explain, and depict, IRC? < 1288506120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ < 1288506122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know you do. < 1288506131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's where hackers go when they don't want to I've forgotten the rest of the line. < 1288506145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** These critical programs are missing or too old: as ld < 1288506145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Check the INSTALL file for required versions. < 1288506150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking version of as... 2.20.1, bad < 1288506150 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1288506152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with my as < 1288506171 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: old < 1288506172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: When they don't want to be overheard. < 1288506180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that < 1288506195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that show is terribly irrirtating < 1288506210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Luckily, I speak leet." < 1288506216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semi-mathematical deus ex machinas + WOW WE ZOOM OUT AND SCRIBBLE EQUATIONS THAT MAKE NO SENSE ON THE SCREEN SO YOU KNOW THEY'RE DEEP THINKERS < 1288506267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1337 15 @ 5|_||35717|_|710|\| (`/|)#3|2 |_)|_||_)3Z < 1288506282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: clearly the killer is from New Jersey! < 1288506318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, of course. New Jersey is the sole cause of murderers. < 1288506331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Say... How could I make glibc *not* try and check that the kernel is new enough? < 1288506335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Some environment variable? < 1288506345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: emacs configure.ac < 1288506350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: With binaries. < 1288506355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean < 1288506368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye$ sudo chroot debian < 1288506368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password: < 1288506369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FATAL: kernel too old < 1288506369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye$ < 1288506370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought that was Philadelphia < 1288506373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How can I make glibc shut up and try anyway? < 1288506386 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bonus points if you're sailing there to draw a line) < 1288506444 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just made a netbsd stick with includes of some awesome APPS: netcat! nano! links! irssi! < 1288506457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Down the highway, not across the street. < 1288506478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you forgot X111111111 < 1288506503 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's one of the distribution sets. i just need to untar it < 1288506527 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might as well put the whole thing through its paces, see how much space it uses up < 1288506536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: 4 gigs < 1288506619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not so! http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/razor2.gif Across the jugular. < 1288506738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Huh, Maddox actually updated. Several times. < 1288506747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, three times. < 1288506752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once a month. < 1288506776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is fairly astounding compared to the past 3 years of hardly anything. < 1288506963 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1288507149 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288507458 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would be unfortunate, as the partition is only 500M right now, to make it faster to dd < 1288507477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i'm thinkin': let's wait until netbsd 6 < 1288507480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will do linux 2.6 < 1288507487 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it? when will it? < 1288507499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes; when it's done < 1288507511 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, 5 just came out, didn't it? earlier this year < 1288507516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last year. < 1288507517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.netbsd.org/changes/changes-6.0.html < 1288507524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update linux emulation to support the most commonly used linux 2.6.x kernel features. We now claim to be linux kernel version 2.6.18. [chs 20100706] < 1288507526 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time flies < 1288507546 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well damn < 1288507550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, it emulates linux even on non-x86 :) < 1288507551 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am i not running netbsd-CURRENT < 1288507558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: have fun updating :P < 1288507574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1288507576 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need more computers! < 1288507576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works with SVGAlib < 1288507599 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... though svgalib was dead < 1288507602 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thought < 1288507605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shared libraries that the program depends on, and the run- < 1288507605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : time linker. Also, you will need to create a ``shadow root'' directory < 1288507605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for Linux binaries on your NetBSD system. This directory is named < 1288507605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /emul/linux or /emul/linux32 for 32bit emulation on 64bit systems. Any < 1288507605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : file operations done by Linux programs run under NetBSD will look in this < 1288507606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : directory first. So, if a Linux program opens, for example, /etc/passwd, < 1288507608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : NetBSD will first try to open /emul/linux/etc/passwd" < 1288507610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1288507618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it is :) < 1288507623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1288507686 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forked it because it could not would not run happily on dfly at all. my improvements did not help < 1288507733 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it was all, like, that graphics buffer device, on linux. which was like, no. < 1288507768 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :framebuffer < 1288507778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fbdev is awesome < 1288507782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like /dev/dsp for graphics! < 1288507805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Battlestar Galactica 1980. The writing staff was trying to kill it. < 1288507806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: remember this for me: /emul/linux kthx < 1288507822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: also: netbsd-current! DO IT < 1288507825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *Galactica 1980 < 1288507851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They actually tried to kill the show. < 1288507865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it sucked. < 1288507884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288507999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Hey cool, NetBSD doesn't need symlinks from libraries to more specific versions; the dynamic linker handles that itself. < 1288508053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what the hell is "DLL Jump" in ldd output? from http://netbsd.gw.com/cgi-bin/man-cgi/man?compat_linux+8+NetBSD-current < 1288508062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (me@linux) ldd linuxxdoom < 1288508062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : libXt.so.3 (DLL Jump 3.1) => /usr/X11/lib/libXt.so.3.1.0 < 1288508062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : libX11.so.3 (DLL Jump 3.1) => /usr/X11/lib/libX11.so.3.1.0 < 1288508062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : libc.so.4 (DLL Jump 4.5pl26) => /lib/libc.so.4.6.29 < 1288508065 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i followed freebsd-current for a while, so i don't see why i couldn't do netbsd-current, but, dear lord. it will not make this disused laptop happy. < 1288508065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's so much nicer than ldconfig making the symlinks. < 1288508078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: otoh, the manpage might be lying and it might have links anyway :) < 1288508080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows?! < 1288508131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ ssh ehird@localhost -p 9292 < 1288508131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password: < 1288508132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last login: Sat Oct 30 18:11:31 2010 from localhost < 1288508132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetBSD 5.0.2 (GENERIC) #1: Wed Oct 27 15:17:46 CDT 2010 < 1288508132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to NetBSD! < 1288508132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye$ ls /lib | grep libc < 1288508134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc.so < 1288508136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc.so.12 < 1288508137 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288508138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc.so.12.164 < 1288508140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Never mind, they have links anyway for some inexplicable reason. < 1288508142 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :werrrt? < 1288508147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: See last line. < 1288508154 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288508158 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... good, right? < 1288508171 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it is certainly unusual < 1288508172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: not really, it'd be more awesome if the manpage was telling the truth and the dynamic linker figured it out itself < 1288508176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you only needed libc.so.12.164 < 1288508178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's usual < 1288508180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also sucks :) < 1288508190 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should look for myself < 1288508212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: But you could just use my cached answer! of magiiiic < 1288508216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all symlinks to the last one. < 1288508219 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288508222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the last one. < 1288508226 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288508227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not a symlink at all. < 1288508235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a hardlink though. To itself. < 1288508237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like every file. < 1288508243 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I'm not used to there being *two* numbers, is all. < 1288508252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's probably to make the (non-dynamic) linker not complain. < 1288508268 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that the symlinks are (always) used, and/or what pikhq just said. < 1288508269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Lame. < 1288508281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: First number is increased when ABI is broken, last number is increased when it's updated in any way. < 1288508298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in Linux, you have libc.so.5 moving to libc.so.6 being a distro maintainer's HELL. < 1288508310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But libc.so.6.1 to libc.so.6.28934723978428934 is not that big a deal, it's just an upgrade. < 1288508314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to relink programs. < 1288508328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: So, often, programs link to "libc.so.6", not any specific version. < 1288508335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they just get the latest one on the system. < 1288508348 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember FreeBSD doing this :) < 1288508351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And apparently for the static linker or whatever, NetBSD still has symlinks to do this, despite the dynamic linker purportedly being smart enough to do it itself. < 1288508355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It will. Probably. < 1288508356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything does. < 1288508365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure. I think. < 1288508367 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc.so.6 was just libc.do.6 and that's what you get. < 1288508368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1288508369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolly. < 1288508371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, Linux's dynamic linker is *smart enough* to do it itself. < 1288508381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Here, you're more of an authority; talk to catseye. < 1288508392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It may simply be that they called the latest version that all the time, even though it had a more specific version. < 1288508436 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it could be said to have a version at all < 1288508444 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond simply 6 < 1288508446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: THE CVS REVISION OMG < 1288508460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Actually, its version is 2.x. < 1288508472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: The so version being 6 on x86 is for hysterical raisins. < 1288508476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: libc6 is LINUX wrongness. < 1288508481 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 was an example. < 1288508482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not on FreeBSD. < 1288508487 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt Free. < 1288508488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably libc.so.42 on FreeBSD. < 1288508504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: True. < 1288508524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, Linux Libc. < 1288508556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *glibc < 1288508569 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow installing all the distribution sets on a flash drive is not exactly fast < 1288508571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: GNU have, since the start, controlled Linux and have thus been able to make it suck. < 1288508580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, Linux Libc. libc.so.2 through libc.so.5 on Linux x86. < 1288508585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Linux 0.01? Yup, you link with glibc and use bash and gcc/libc. < 1288508592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uhh, yeah, linux libc was glibc. < 1288508600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was GNU software. < 1288508606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was distributed with Linux gcc. < 1288508617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, in the early days) < 1288508624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: libc.so.1 and libc.so.6 were glibc. The others were a fork with a lot of nasty stuff... < 1288508634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as support for a.out dynamic linking. < 1288508637 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could speed this up by doing it on a HD partition, and then dd'ing it over. Well, I know I could. < 1288508639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they tracked glibc though didn't they? < 1288508640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may now cry in a corner. < 1288508642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1288508645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh okay < 1288508657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: old libc 2s *were* distributed with gcc though < 1288508659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump?.tgzs < 1288508661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for numerical ? < 1288508665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that libc 1? < 1288508666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows. < 1288508669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'll note that they *broke ABI 4 times*. < 1288508689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: libc 4 is still > libc 5 > glibc imo though :) < 1288508695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and it's still maintained! < 1288508701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the same time period, glibc did not once break ABI. < 1288508718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, but a.out dynamic linking. WHY < 1288508719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: libc 4 hasn't broken ABI in quite a few years :) < 1288508726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And it's still maintained! < 1288508736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any idea how that works? < 1288508749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YOU'RE MEANT TO ASK ME WHO MAINTAINS LIBC 4 < 1288508754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND ALSO WHERE TO GET THE LATEST RELEASE < 1288508757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I KNOW ITS YOUR MOTHER < 1288508758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO YOU CAN INSTALL IT ON ANYTHING < 1288508764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.pell.portland.or.us/~orc/Code/libc/ < 1288508767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Latest release is 4.8.4. < 1288508803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, it was jump4?.tar, not jump?.tgz. < 1288508810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a.out dynamic linking, each shared object has a hardcoded load address. < 1288508825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may now murder people. < 1288508844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Technically libc 4 was last released in 2002, but the maintainer still uses it, so I'm sure you could get a new release with a lot of prodding. < 1288508849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Still. 2002. < 1288508851 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to process extent of fuckedupedness of this < 1288508857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: By then everyone had been using glibc. For years. < 1288508868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 'Cept Debian. < 1288508876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian was using dinosaurs. < 1288508898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Fix up strftime to properly deal with dates past 1999 < 1288508905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: libc4 was *made y2k compliant*. < 1288508919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometime in 1998-1999. (single changelog entry for all such changes) < 1288508922 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288508997 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288509044 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do the WindwOS thing and just not have a "system" C library. < 1288509075 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want to come to this party, you bring your own booze, pal. < 1288509079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well with static linking you *don't* < 1288509087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have something called /lib/libc.a < 1288509093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean you have to link to it < 1288509117 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you" being the developer, of course. < 1288509129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: don't ship /lib/libc.a < 1288509132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solved :) < 1288509188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[LOGREADING ELLIOTT]] Write a VCS, foo. < 1288509193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i so need a todo system < 1288509197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd get so clogged up... < 1288509443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a NIH system < 1288509610 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :500M is a *bit* small; I'm up to 383M with just all the base dist sets. i'll see what weight my useful APPS add < 1288509641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it seems that parsons doesn't actually use sccs < 1288509644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just calls all vcses sccs < 1288509644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1288509657 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some sense that is just as entertaining < 1288509691 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'll have an orange coke. let's slap a bsd gpl on this thing and check it into the github sccs.) < 1288509733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well "source code control system", it's pretty generic :) < 1288509738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: like "init", "c compiler", etc. < 1288509742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those old unix tools had generic names < 1288509742 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but... taken < 1288509745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was a better time < 1288509752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a time when we didn't give everything name < 1288509753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*names < 1288509757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were just implementations of their functionality < 1288509770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we had no silly "distros" and crap < 1288509771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH! < 1288509774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get off my lawn. < 1288509778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnight; bye. < 1288509782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1288510099 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Pb < 1288510495 0 :DrNinja!~catseye@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288510514 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one, the only, ircII client. < 1288510552 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lighterweight than irssi I'll grant, but not exactly a pleasure to behold < 1288510562 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1288510932 0 :DrNinja!~catseye@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288510946 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an improvement < 1288510948 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1288511999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1288512000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1288514194 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1288515686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288515698 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288515757 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1288515776 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288515937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288517176 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288518994 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288518994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288521571 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288521602 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288522678 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1288523411 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288525630 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1288525871 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1288525966 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1288528043 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In the USA, the series premiered on 21 March 2010 with Attenborough's narration replaced by Oprah Winfrey reading from a different script tailored to American audiences.]] < 1288528058 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god, are American TV people really that bad? < 1288528972 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently. < 1288529123 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, how did they tailor the script for American audiences? < 1288529132 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remove any mention of the word "evolution"? < 1288529254 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove all difficult words, repeat the rest to fill the gaps < 1288529424 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and just change the accent to american, I think that's a big deal < 1288529594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Some of the reviewers said that the script was re-written for her, and I can believe it. I can't believe Attenborough saying lines like "hunting crab seals is toooo much work!" Oprah narrates this thing as if she were reading a bedtime story to little kids and comes off as snarky and condescending. In the opening segment, she's discussing a fox chasing an ibex kid and it's basically like "heeeere comes the fox! UH OH!!"]] -- amazon.com review of the blu-ray r < 1288529594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elease. < 1288529770 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2% of people bought the Oprah version after looking at Attenborough's, and it's rated at 1½ starts. < 1288529773 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stars < 1288530138 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, they did the same to another of his documentaries, but with Sigourney Weaver instead. < 1288530212 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they had Blue Planet narrated by Pierce Brosnan. < 1288530250 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, who is it that thinks treating all viewers like small-minded idiots is a good idea? < 1288532109 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288532323 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1288535261 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288536426 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288537074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am starting to believe that there is no such thing as a browser not full of fail < 1288537307 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288539424 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1288540159 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1288541496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288542289 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288542446 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1288542772 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288542849 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925110102.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1288542913 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288542960 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288543421 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, lynx? < 1288543435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And everything that doesn't work in lynx is of course full of fail. < 1288543437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1288544190 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-219-194.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288544354 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1288544629 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288544725 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has connected to IRC from a liveboot NetBSD stick
< 1288544735 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what you must do, of course, is write your own < 1288544783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Able to use WebKit, Gecko, or .. the IE one as necessary < 1288544792 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Able to use extensions from any browser < 1288544810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can use GreaseMonkey scripts designed for any browser < 1288544871 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm browsing esolangs.org with links right now :) lynx is more of a classic though < 1288544911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, heh, how well does it work? < 1288544953 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not bad. renders the table on the main page surprisingly well < 1288544960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, not the opera rendering engine? < 1288544999 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, give me the money, and I'll include it too < 1288545016 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever < 1288545026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, anyway I think you are referring to FireInternetBloatKitExplorer? < 1288545055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it will be designed to not be bloated! < 1288545056 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one here ever mentions Dillo < 1288545058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1288545061 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288545069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What rendering engine does Dillo use? Its own? < 1288545075 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288545079 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1288545084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, well, elliott mentioned it sometimes iirc < 1288545095 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I use IE6's Trident if IE>6 is installed? < 1288545103 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not do Javascript, is the big thing < 1288545131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that businesses can use this browser in place of IE6 < 1288545186 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what Trident is < 1288545199 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288545216 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ it's the IE rendering engine < 1288545221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, I did not mean Trident < 1288545274 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do a remote call to one of those we'll-render-it-in-IE-for-you services ;) < 1288545302 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should see if i can run X < 1288545346 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Trident like to make clicking sounds randomly? < 1288545379 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288545407 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1288545502 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yup, i can! that's cool) < 1288545515 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you clicked on a link + lag < 1288545551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it happens when I don't click a link < 1288545613 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it happens when javascript "clicks" on a link too < 1288545614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I mentioned Dillo just the other day! < 1288545619 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I missed iT! < 1288545623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are worms, we're the best/and we've come to win the war/we'll stay, we'll never run/stay until it's done < 1288545639 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: actually i recall the clicking you're talking about. < 1288545652 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-219-194.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288545657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15-10-2010 19:42:25 > fizzie: Dillo does native GTK widgets for you. :p < 1288545669 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMETHING in there thinks a page changed, therefore it goes "click". < 1288545793 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1288545850 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288545992 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288546028 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288546056 0 :sbszulu!~dundubala@41.15.69.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288546116 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288546135 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288546347 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :10 days since last oerjan sighting | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | something clever here < 1288546446 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1288546450 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1288546491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:06:32 Able to use extensions from any browser < 1288546492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha < 1288546500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/from/for/ < 1288546504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo has devolved into "I want an OS that can run programs from ANY OS!" < 1288546531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: dillo is awesome! dillo is useless. < 1288546558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dillo is inexplicably not in debian < 1288546593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wow they're adding css support! < 1288546784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compromise. Dillo is awesomely useless. < 1288546877 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There IS a pkgsrc package for it :) < 1288546883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: but is it dillo 2? < 1288546892 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably almost certainly not < 1288546894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dillo 1 is lame and is fltk 1 (boring STABLE toolkit version) and no CSS < 1288546903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dillo 2 is awesome and fltk 2 (MOVING TARGET WOO) and anti-aliasing and CSS < 1288546917 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trying to install fltk2 for me so YES < 1288546921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dillo.org/screenshots/gnu.zh.png < 1288546930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dillo.org/screenshots/line-height.png < 1288547051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Q: What happened to the dillorc preferences for colors? " "CSS happened! To set colors, --" < 1288547060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288547061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I like the "CSS happened!" bit. < 1288547208 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dillo 2.2 installed! < 1288547225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now YOU are awesomely useless too. < 1288547302 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COmpletely! It will not browse my website because it is actual XHTML now. < 1288547345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo Linking fractals... < 1288547345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -I.. -O2 -Wall -Wunused -I/usr/include/freetype2 -Wno-non-virtual-dtor fractals.o fracviewer.o ../lib/libfltk2_glut.a -L../lib -lfltk2 -lX11 -lXi -lXinerama -lXft -lpthread -lm -lXext -lsupc++ -o fractals < 1288547356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... that will absolutely suffice to compile an OpenGL program, I am sure. < 1288547391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION disables opengl
< 1288547408 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like half a browser! Amazon.com looks SO AWESOME < 1288547468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: "[In part because no one has implemented the CSS 'float' property yet. But besides that...]" < 1288547493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: "Our policy is not to work around broken HTML." Looks like they never heard of Postel's Law. < 1288547494 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melodica + cat = insane cat 8-D < 1288547523 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, conal elliott really wants a lot of books i would never go anywhere near < 1288547525 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway! < 1288547536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: like what? < 1288547583 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if they give you lined paper, write sideways"? < 1288547600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut < 1288547620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If They Give You Lined Paper, Write Sideways is a book by Ishmael author Daniel Quinn. It is presented as a dialog between Quinn and a reader of his books, and is intended to answer the question "How do you do what you do?" < 1288547620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The title is quite similar to a quotation attributed to Juan Ramón Jiménez (24 December 1881 – 29 May 1958) "If they give you ruled paper, write the other way." See." < 1288547622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Wikipedia < 1288547706 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288547852 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288547956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Postel's Law the "liberal in what you accept, conservative in what you emit" thing/ < 1288547960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard arguments against that < 1288547970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That that's a part of the reason the web is screwed up < 1288548049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The arguments are mostly based on misinterpretations. The web is screwed up for entirely different reasons and they are called Netscape and Microsoft in the 90s. < 1288548560 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288549146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: "You can tell a link from plain content by the hand-shaped cursor." --Dillo < 1288549220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails impressively at reddit < 1288549233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m.reddit.com works great though! < 1288549348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/01/08/postels-law < 1288549350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/01/14/thought_experiment < 1288549352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: read both of these < 1288549482 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1288549506 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288550155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it seems that VICE isn't that free < 1288550158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: < 1288550159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C64MEM: Error - Couldn't load kernal ROM `kernal'. < 1288550159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Machine initialization failed. < 1288550160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exiting... < 1288550164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: guess debian strips out the ... questionable bits < 1288550176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This package does not contain the various ROM images needed to actually use the < 1288550176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : emulators; they are available separately from other locations (see the < 1288550176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : README.ROMs file). A corporation in the Netherlands called Tulip holds the < 1288550176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : copyrights to the ROM images, and redistribution is not permitted, but VICE < 1288550176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : itself is unencumbered. < 1288550301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The ROM files in the `C128', `C64', `CBM-II', `DRIVES', `PET', `PLUS4' < 1288550301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `PRINTER' and `VIC20' directories are Copyright C by Commodore < 1288550301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Business Machines. < 1288550407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey Sgeo managed to make even the Worms theme lame < 1288550419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, those are the lyrics! < 1288550423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288550426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you managed to make them lame < 1288550429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, those are like < 1288550432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5% of the lyrics! < 1288550441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly it is a silly theme song. < 1288550443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you made it sillier < 1288550513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't run with /nologo anyway < 1288550532 0 :sbszulu!~dundubala@41.16.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288550632 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I looked at it one more time and I swear to God it said 2003-06-31. < 1288550646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shoo! Next post! There are two! < 1288550654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORLESE < 1288550655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still reading this one! < 1288550659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the last line :P < 1288550783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here�s the thing: that wasn�t a thought experiment; it all really happened." < 1288551096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: lol @ petulant cursor < 1288551100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the border flashing hertz < 1288551118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1288551131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Searching for information on the fictitious drug Angelfire is near-impossible < 1288551134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was something else wrong with the Debian/Ubuntu VICE, but I've forgotten what it was. Maybe it was just that they weren't tracking the latest version with any speed. < 1288551183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Double size, PAL emulation, scale 2x size" -- bliss! < 1288551191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love CRT-ish blurryemulations. < 1288551200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i think i'll just compile my own vice < 1288551231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, except the stock package doesn't have debian menu support. guh. < 1288551233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1288551261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I compiled my own vice here, FWIW. < 1288551277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i will too < 1288551300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GTK support it nowadays has is somewhat nice: the old menus and such were quite horrible. < 1288551312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The menus are very big but GTK 2 here. < 1288551315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big = long. < 1288551320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badly organised; both "Options" *and* "Settings". < 1288551328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took me ages to find the display settings. < 1288551361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "Options" and "Settings" are what used to be the right-click and... middle-click "context-sensitive" menus in 'regular' vice. < 1288551371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god. :) < 1288551415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Any configure options I SHould know about, fwiw? < 1288551422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --with-sdlsound use SDL sound system < 1288551423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1288551434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --disable-lame disable MP3 export with LAME < 1288551441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only every program let you --disable-lame. :) < 1288551451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --enable-gnomeui enables GNOME UI support < 1288551454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's the one, right? < 1288551509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it. < 1288551760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--enable-ethernet if you want to run Contiki with networking in it. < 1288551775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven't bothered.) < 1288551780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yes I do. < 1288551786 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288551851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, there is no technical reason a hypothetical OS couldn't run programs for any OS. It would just have the most ridiculous kernel ever, and it would rely on essentially perfect reverse engineering. < 1288551875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and it's still a stupid idea < 1288551882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for running extensions for every *web browser*? Yeah, no fucking way. < 1288551898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XUUUUUUUUUUL < 1288551902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, true. Beyond a certain point there's really no point in it at *all*. < 1288551903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :port XUL/javascript/CSS to gtk < 1288551904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEHOW < 1288551906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then gtk to Qt < 1288551907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEHOW < 1288551912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will all work < 1288551916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably by the time you get Win32, Linux, OS X going) < 1288551918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: emulate the structure of other browsers' UIs somehow < 1288552013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I doubt you could run both Firefox and Seamonkey extensions at once. < 1288552028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current Contiki site seems to focus only on their new embedded-systems OSery, but there's at least http://c64bbs.com/contiki/ where you can get a TFE-compatible C64 Contiki image. < 1288552114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hmm, why? < 1288552157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Current Contiki site seems to focus only on their new embedded-systems OSery, but there's at least http://c64bbs.com/contiki/ where you can get a TFE-compatible C64 Contiki image. < 1288552160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my. favourite. thing. ever < 1288552173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I want C64 or C128? LOL C64 DUH < 1288552310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Extensions for XUL browsers depend very very heavily on the actual DOM tree of the browser UI. < 1288552331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So fake that! < 1288552339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that would probably suck < 1288552339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... < 1288552343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You suck. < 1288552348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... No, you can't fucking *do* that. < 1288552357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, IE extensions would be even worse. < 1288552368 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if it were faked, some extensions wouldn't work < 1288552376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're DLLs. They rely on the actual explorer.exe's code. < 1288552404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing you could possibly pull off is Chrome extensions, which are Javascript with some added API functions. < 1288552414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even that would be annoying. < 1288552439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Opera extensions? < 1288552454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how the Opera extension system works. < 1288552467 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a squirrel that lives near my building that I see every so often. I can recognize it's the same squirrel because it has no tail. It is a constant reminder that, visually speaking anyway, squirrels are approximately 50% tail. < 1288552469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to guess, though, that you don't want to do that. < 1288552507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: VICE uses the fancy http://www.pepto.de/projects/colorvic/ palette, rigt? < 1288552509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right? < 1288552616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has a couple of alternatives. < 1288552618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c64hq.vpl c64s.vpl ccs64.vpl default.vpl frodo.vpl godot.vpl pc64.vpl vice.vpl < 1288552633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default could be that one. < 1288552670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "vice.vpl" seems to match the numbers given at the end of that article. < 1288552861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: vice isn't shown in the eternal colour set list, though. So I guess it's the non-external one. < 1288552865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default is shown, as Default. < 1288552873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not the default when external coloursets are disabled. < 1288552895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably what it uses by default when not selecting "external". < 1288552931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, what directory is that stuff in again? >__> < 1288552933 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288552994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The palette files? Those are in data/C64/ in the source set, not sure where (or if) it installs them. < 1288553018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Palette: Loading palette `/usr/local/lib/vice/C64/default.vpl'. < 1288553020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That explains it. < 1288553049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How odd. It's entirely different to all the ones listed and the non-external one. < 1288553097 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; that's very strange. < 1288553114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's what some version of vice used by default, and they updated the numbers inside the sources but not in that .vpl file. < 1288553131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, it looks *very different* from the default. < 1288553139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking "much darker BASIC screen" here. < 1288553151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it does. < 1288553198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: As a distrustful man, I'm sticking to it. < 1288553205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any article defending this NEW one hrmph hurh. < 1288553214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's not like the colors probably were very well calibrated on physical machines either. < 1288553228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since all of this was based on selecting different resistor values and resistance varied from chip lot to chip lot, there was variation from one Commodore 64 to another. It wasn't as bad as it could have been though, since all of the Chrominance selection was based on resistor ratios, which could be kept constant even if the actual resistor values varied. Luminance was more of a problem." < 1288553239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but, http://www.pepto.de/projects/colorvic/dk-ccs64.gif vs http://www.pepto.de/projects/colorvic/dk-pepto.gif. < 1288553247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pretty dramatic improvement. < 1288553283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure, the ccs64 is pretty... how should I say it, theoretical. < 1288553372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait, that Contiki page is just to download the webserver, I think. < 1288553403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Today Contiki is mostly known as an operating system for networked embedded systems. A few years ago, however, Contiki's primary claim to fame was its Commodore 64 port. With the help of JAC64, a Java-based C64 emulator developed by my colleague and fellow Contiki developer Joakim Eriksson, you can now experience the C64 port of Contiki 1.2-devel1 again, directly in your web browser! Click here to enjoy it - unfortunately without networking supp < 1288553403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ort at present." < 1288553404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh joy. < 1288553422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it builds a full contiki.dsk; it might be that it's mangled to run the webserver only, though. < 1288553439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BREADBOX64 is a twitter client for the C64/128 which allows you to tweet from a real C64 and show your friends timeline. It uses Contiki, a very nice embedded OS, and the MMC Replay cartridge with the RR-Net add on for the physical connection to the net. < 1288553441 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that Factor is a bit... large < 1288553445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION speechless
< 1288553475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a LOT to learn. I don't mind, but the general programming public... < 1288553484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://120.146.162.194:8080/contiki.html Why not download Contiki from a C64? < 1288553509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"404 - file not found" < 1288553517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: On what file? < 1288553536 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeahhhh Sgeo the "general programming public" uses Java and .NET; when you count all the "standard classes", are these any smaller? < 1288553547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On your link; but reloading the page made it appear. "Interesting." < 1288553554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, it's a C64. :) < 1288553554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good point < 1288553565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: On http://cbm8bit.com/contiki/ I ought to fill in my actual LAN IP and the like, right? < 1288553600 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not like dragons. < 1288553610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell, the vice networking just uses low-level packet-mangling stuff to fake it as if the C64 was a different machine, so you should stick in something as if you were adding a new machine in the network. < 1288553620 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am tempted to build VICE, but I've done that before and I could be building NetBSD-CURRENT instead! < 1288553627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That game is frickin' hard. < 1288553628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disclaimer: I haven't actually ran the thing in vice. < 1288553630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might help if I had a joystick. < 1288553637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The site is also pretty slow! Maybe they should load-balance it to several C64s. < 1288553692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that downloaded contiki thing starts but no GUI or anything < 1288553698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "up and running" < 1288553700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess it's webserving < 1288553812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 1.2-devel1 starts the gui < 1288553814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is more like it < 1288553818 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g224200083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1288553834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no joystick mouse support, wtf?! < 1288553905 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it? maybe i got used to it with the keyboard < 1288553917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well i went in circles i think < 1288553920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also was terrible at it < 1288553938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i never found one of the ... key whatevers! < 1288553965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it has irc < 1288553966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU GUYS < 1288553968 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the maze is large! < 1288553970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO GONNA IRC FROM THIS < 1288553973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes, terribly large < 1288553974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got lost < 1288553974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1288553978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am bad < 1288553997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Net driver > < < 1288554000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't know! < 1288554039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VICE emulates the TFE thing, but I'm not sure what Contiki calls it. < 1288554047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting a "undefined reference to `libnet_write_link_layer'" from configure --enable-ethernet, unfortunately. Curious. < 1288554067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works for me. < 1288554074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There is libnet_init in -lnet, but not libnet_write_link_layer in -lnet.) < 1288554187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dusted.dk/stuff/ide64/bignew/ethconfigclose.jpg hmm my screen is much duller than this < 1288554211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, turning off smooth luminances smooths the gradient < 1288554358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the libnet_write_link_layer test is just optional; it decides whether to use libnet 1.0 or 1.1 by that. I just haven't done "make install", which might explain why I'm not seeing any changes. < 1288554395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, I don't think I ran "make" either. I just ./configure'd. < 1288554419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1288554476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: QUICK WHAT ASSEMBLER SHOULD I USE FOR THE C64 < 1288554488 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1288554529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some unfathomable reason, I use cc65's assembler (ca65) as a standalone thing; but that's probably not such a great idea. < 1288554548 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um. ON the C64, or cross-assembling TO the C64? < 1288554580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: uh, to. i played with the c64 once and used an assembler in it. not. fun. < 1288554580 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: first is too hardcore for me) < 1288554599 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i use the Perl version of p65. also fairly unfathomably, except that it's easily portable < 1288554616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that site told me to use OPHIS instead < 1288554620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like that but written in PYTHON < 1288554621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NEWER < 1288554623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a MANUAL < 1288554639 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can try that if you like < 1288554644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least with ca65 you get to write linker scripts. :p < 1288554645 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing wrong with the perl one thought < 1288554647 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1288554650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unmaintained software or irritating python software? < 1288554652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG HOW DO I DECIDE < 1288554655 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it has some shortcomings but nothing too major < 1288554670 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like its label arithmetic is pretty limited < 1288554699 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably try the python version at some point < 1288554714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i just had the strangest perversion. I SHOULD WRITE A UNIX FOR THE COMMODORE 64 < 1288554717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waaaay in over his head
< 1288554724 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the point where i discovered p65, the python version was no better and it seemed like development wasn't happing on it anyway < 1288554734 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, waaaay < 1288554745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it sounds fun though right?!?!?! < 1288554784 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a degree < 1288554854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i could multitask at, like, 10 HZ < 1288554858 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DLWNOADIGN NTESBD URCCENT < 1288554861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is Hz but in capitals btw < 1288554873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 10 is also capitalised. < 1288554950 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a Lisp for the C64, now THERE is a project. < 1288554959 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it a Lisp OS for more fun! < 1288554961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: or a FORTH! wait, that just sounds easy < 1288554977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just sounds ... easy ... and fun < 1288554979 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is in the GC! < 1288554985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hahahahano < 1288555017 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you *could* do lisp without gc but, yeah, no. < 1288555017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so uh can these assemblers output disk images or just .prgs? < 1288555046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vice has a good command-line tool (c1541) for disk-imagery. < 1288555054 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i typically output a .prg and have the overlying OS'es directory simulate a disk < 1288555066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, forths don't need disks! < 1288555068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "good" and "good". The syntax of it is pretty horrible. < 1288555074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only BLOCKS < 1288555101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: is the kernal like the bios (you don't want to use it if you can help it, slow etc.) or like... uh... not that < 1288555102 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (there is some tutorial-ish docs in my "ribos" project for how to build stuff with p65, fwiw) < 1288555117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SRY IM USING "OPHIS" ITS WEBT 2 < 1288555117 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically yes < 1288555118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WEBEB < 1288555122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that uh < 1288555127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there were two possible answers < 1288555134 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it is like a bios < 1288555139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: oh joy < 1288555144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any docs on how to reimplement its shit myself? :-) < 1288555151 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you don't want to use it" is... not always justified < 1288555157 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just not use it < 1288555186 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you need it for? disk access? you can talk to the 1541 yourself < 1288555199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to access disk if i can avoid it, ever :) < 1288555210 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO YOU ARE WRITING A CARTRIDGE OK < 1288555221 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically never need to use the kernel < 1288555231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kernal! love that misspelling < 1288555236 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and getting by without it is easier than getting by without BIOS when booting a PC :) < 1288555241 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kernal yes yes < 1288555276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok my first program will switch it into that lowercase/uppercase mode < 1288555278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i can figure out how! < 1288555371 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to give you hints? < 1288555392 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: there are two books that are invaluable < 1288555395 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(imo) < 1288555413 0 :FIZZIE64!~FIZZIE64@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1288555426 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*applause* < 1288555440 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not the most comfortable client evar. < 1288555464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hints are nice yes < 1288555467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: oh wow < 1288555474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: how did you get networking working? < 1288555479 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has some issues w.r.t. character case: my nick is lowercase here. < 1288555486 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dhcp saved the day! < 1288555488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it responds to CTCP VERSION < 1288555494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: but what network driver did you specify? < 1288555497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the configuration < 1288555510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just "tfe.drv". < 1288555516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to use the configuration bit, though. < 1288555527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: really? < 1288555531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just use the directory browser, "execute" the TFE driver, then execute the DHCP client. < 1288555537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh < 1288555539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try that < 1288555555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll want to have the Ethernet support enabled in VICE, of course. < 1288555574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have it compiled in < 1288555577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i have to do anything else? < 1288555593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to enable it from Options/Ethernet emulation/Enable Ethernet. < 1288555597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you need to run x64 as root. < 1288555601 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the kernal handles the uppercase/lowercase "mode" you refer to, and the easy way to switch it is to output a certain control character, via the kernal. < 1288555607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which icon is tfe? :P < 1288555615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on the second page at least in my case. < 1288555627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Final Ethernet driver" or some-such. < 1288555658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, tried to say "/nick fizzie64" in hopes of getting a lowercase nick; it briefly said "not implemented" and dumped me back to C64 basic. < 1288555665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288555703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If I see no "Ethernet emulation", is that bad? < 1288555725 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It at least sounds a bit suspicious; it should be under IDE64 emulation. < 1288555764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed none of that < 1288555768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some library i need? < 1288555788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libpcap-dev and libnet1-dev. < 1288555800 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1288555802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The configure script won't really complain if it can't find them, it just silently ignores you in that case. < 1288555806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that would help < 1288555814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very user-friendly that way. < 1288555908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Error loading program: "irc.prg": Out of memory"." < 1288556021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/cont.png -- none of those look very non-essential to me. Although I'm not quite sure what "Program handler" does. < 1288556080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Reboot? :P < 1288556092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, what's that GTK font? < 1288556098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I *just* got the DHCP client runninated! < 1288556100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't look like Ubuntu Sans... < 1288556108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, duude, turn on CRT emulation. < 1288556113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *should* be Ubuntu Sans, I haven't touched any things. < 1288556124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, just aggressive hinting messing it up then :P < 1288556161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay, seriously -- what's the full path to ethernet settings on yours? < 1288556214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean, menu-wise in VICE, or in Contiki somehow, or what? < 1288556217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VICE < 1288556219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Options/Ethernet emulation/Enable Ethernet" in that case. < 1288556226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said it was under IDE64 X_X < 1288556238 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what the hell are you up to? < 1288556244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, by which I meant it's the menu entry under that one in Options. < 1288556249 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for me. < 1288556262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. < 1288556280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: C64 IRCery mostly, I guess. < 1288556298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh it's --enable-ethernet. I think I had --with-ethernet. < 1288556320 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288556329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is there an obvious place to check whether it decided I can has ethernet or not? < 1288556333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure spews out a lot. < 1288556403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define VICE_USE_LIBNET_1_1 in src/config.h could be a good sign. < 1288556422 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288556501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it has that now. < 1288556522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't managed to get the IRC client started after that one time, though. :p < 1288556556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I did start the configuration thing first, even though I wrote a wrong driver name and got an error about that; maybe I'll try that way again. < 1288556559 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1288556570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that the thought of C64 doing DHCP is so funny. < 1288556610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: c64 needs network booting < 1288556615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I should re-fetch that .d64, in case it got corrupted by a crash; nowadays I get an error already in welcome.prg. < 1288556628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: We're talking PXE64 here. < 1288556638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is PXE x86-only? < 1288556638 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extracting the netbsd current sources into /usr/src oh boy oh boy < 1288556690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The 2.1 version of the specification assigns architecture identifiers to six system types, including IA-64 and DEC Alpha. However, the specification only completely covers IA-32." < 1288556700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not x86-only in theory, just in practice. < 1288556703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whatever, custom protocol then. < 1288556707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be amazing. < 1288556728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have Ethernet now! Also: DUCKS! < 1288556779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TFEARCH: ERROR opening adapter: 'eth0: You don't have permission to capture on that device (socket: Operation not permitted)' < 1288556783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I need to run it as *root8? < 1288556785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**root*? < 1288556822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, seriously, do I? < 1288556837 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bleev he said earlier you do < 1288556867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< fizzie> And you need to run x64 as root. < 1288556868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yo do. < 1288556869 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< fizzie> And you need to run x64 as root. < 1288556871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1288556877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: AND YOU NEED TO UXN IRJ5J39056J39045J9034J534905J90345J35J03UJ534905J90345JIOSWTJKPWE]P5JMWEROPJMIOWERJOAP < 1288556878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioastjheuioj < 1288556881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOAST < 1288556888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOOOOAAAAAASSSSST < 1288556894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c64 has driven me insane TOAST < 1288556932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netbsd has TESTS. < 1288556934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could arrange for the net-raw capability. < 1288556940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sweet, root has their own VICE configuration. < 1288556951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You neglected to tell me THAT :P < 1288556953 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288556975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I want RR-NET compatibility, right? < 1288556986 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you do. < 1288556997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least this Contiki 1.2 has the plain TFE driver. < 1288557008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bootin'. < 1288557009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might have both, 'dunno. < 1288557012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Putin. < 1288557022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: why does the c64 even have an uppercase mode < 1288557026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fancy characters are useless :P < 1288557036 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no they are totally cool < 1288557041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USELESS < 1288557050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, used a fresh .d64, went through the configurations, ran irc.dsc: "Main CPU: JAM at $45D4. [Reset] [Hard Reset] [Monitor] [Continue]" < 1288557073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nondeterminism, gotta love it < 1288557103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I *need* to use the wrong driver name, then run the right driver manually, and that via the file browser (not directly with the 'run program' menu). < 1288557118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What run prorgam menu? < 1288557124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*program < 1288557126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh that menu. < 1288557134 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how half the character set is just the first half with every byte EOR $FF, apparently legacy from the blinking cursor implementation on the PET < 1288557159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: btw the petulant cursor hurts my eyes < 1288557165 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could have just used something like extended background colour mode on the VIC and 64 < 1288557270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha netbsd current sources! ok now i have to read src/UPDATING < 1288557292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if this works, I am so going to abuse my powers to turn your machine into Debian/NetBSD. (actually not but that would be cool) < 1288557474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: holy shit it seemingly worked < 1288557537 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, it always works on the first run, but never thereafter. < 1288557554 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not bitter or anything. < 1288557667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that scrolling is slow. < 1288557668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YEAH MOTD < 1288557697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's the slow. < 1288557723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Section 495 of TeX: The Program says that \relax will be inserted in something like "\ifvoid1\else...\fi" that would otherwise require something after the "1". I have tested this, it is correct. But I cannot find out what part of the code in that section causes it to do that! < 1288557728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, uh, what's the *safe* way to join a channel? < 1288557737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/join #esoteric" worked for me. < 1288557768 0 :ELLIOTT6502!~ELLIOTT65@91.105.93.165 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288557789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of superstitiousness, I'm trying the "write a wrong driver in the config screen" thing: but if it works, I'm going to be dismayed. < 1288557790 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always strange how even th emulated versions of old hardware inexplicabl drop keys every now and then. < 1288557828 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: all i did was boot it up, start the driver, dhcp then irc. however: i di have an ip addres, mask, dns server, gateway in th network configurtion f < 1288557832 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from before < 1288557843 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i configured i with the configurtion progam, not with the specific net configurton program. < 1288557849 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the one on the dektop, i used. < 1288557849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'll see what happenses. < 1288557868 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tthat was from a whil ago, but it had remembered. when i dhcpd the addrss it used was i think the one ientered before. < 1288557887 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELLIOTT6502: Quite the obnoxious nick you have thar. < 1288557889 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, uh, i lik how everything i writ is in uppercase here, mixed case in the input lne, nd loercase everywhere else. < 1288557898 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: i'm on a c64. fuck you. < 1288557901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, now I get "Out of memory" again, after running the driver, DHCP (which worked okay) and irc.dsc. < 1288557918 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: try buying mor ram you bum < 1288557926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, can contiki use the REU? < 1288557932 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1288557981 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyboard support in VICE seemed to vary for me. When I ran it on FreeBSD, it dropped keypresses. But WinVICE worked fine. < 1288558002 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well it's contiki i t's aesom enough it can do wht th fuck it want with my keypresse i dont give a shit < 1288558014 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"*!")+ < 1288558020 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|33 < 1288558024 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :### < 1288558027 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|||| < 1288558028 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, VICE doesn't do a lot of abstraction internally < 1288558037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1288558039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that crashsed it < 1288558048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crashed < 1288558049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a line i put in < 1288558058 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole emulator? < 1288558059 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C64 is not proper ASCII, that is why it doesn't work. < 1288558099 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Amongst all the reasons why it may not work, that seems like about the least likely. < 1288558122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: just, back to basic < 1288558131 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moar reasonable < 1288558141 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is why it doesn't work correctly, I mean. Not why it crashed. < 1288558147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it was actually because i input characters that evidently the irc client is not clever enough to convert or something < 1288558275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer is not receiving power < 1288558278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why < 1288558294 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the MAN is keeping it DOWN < 1288558308 0 :ELLIOTT6502!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1288558314 0 :sbszulu!~dundubala@41.14.213.69 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288558349 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288558382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbszulu < 1288558397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbszulu: do you speak zului < 1288558398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*zulu < 1288558422 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1288558428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1288558430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was unexpected < 1288558448 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am Zulu from here in South Africa. < 1288558486 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you find it unexpected? < 1288558516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno :P < 1288558521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbszulu: hmm have you been here before? < 1288558606 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. First time. < 1288558627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbszulu: this is a channel about esoteric programming languages, btw. < 1288558632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we get some people who don't know that < 1288558649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i am totally loading the contiki homepage on a c64. well not a real c64 < 1288558693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: woo dns doesn't work < 1288558695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try google's servers! < 1288558750 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed. < 1288558778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbszulu: do you know our wiki? < 1288558780 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288558806 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been looking at it since I joined. < 1288558860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1288558878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbszulu: have you made any esolangs yet? < 1288558950 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet. I'm looking forward to getting started with time. < 1288559186 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288559245 0 :FIZZIE64!~FIZZIE64@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1288559261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: MY DNS NO WORKY < 1288559268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ¬!£UJ())(||æłełæ³łł€ < 1288559283 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice unicode < 1288559302 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this time i tried to get a lowercase nick by writing in uppercase but got an erroneous nickname message < 1288559355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity. Oh well; you're on IRC from a C64. < 1288559371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: |\→°£Ŧ⅛¥ < 1288559375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASH < 1288559376 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only a model. i mean, an emulator. < 1288559377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASH < 1288559380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFI < 1288559380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASHFIZZIE64: CRASH DAMMIT CRASH < 1288559412 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about dns though, i used an ip for this irc session, so far haven't even tried dns. < 1288559420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dns worked for me before < 1288559421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ëëëëëëëëëë < 1288559423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for irc < 1288559424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now no < 1288559426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no telnet or web < 1288559455 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to run this thing on, say, the c128 i have, but: no disk drive, no ethernet hardware. < 1288559456 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1288559504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: I wonder why disabling the new luminances in the VIC-II settings makes the middle gradient smooth? < 1288559511 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the c128 builds might not have the fancy desktop either. < 1288559518 0 :sbszulu!~dundubala@41.14.213.69 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288559533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: does it even support the c128? < 1288559558 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288559561 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some versions of contiki. dunno. < 1288559592 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might even work in th c64 mode of the c128: it is pretty good when it comes to backward compat, i think. < 1288559657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: do you actually need a disk for contiki? wouldn't it fit on, uh < 1288559659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cassette? < 1288559662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not :P < 1288559673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a bit c64-workings-ignorant. < 1288559692 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1288559714 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a cable that might work: it can be used to have a computer pretending to be a disk drive. < 1288559724 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, the networking thing i trickier. < 1288559734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: just implement a networking-over-fake-disk-cable thing < 1288559742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :communicate by writing and reading to odd filenames! < 1288559753 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with a serial cable and slip: there's a slip drivr in contiki < 1288559753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a contiki driver and a linux program away < 1288559762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: or that. < 1288559876 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would still involve a rs232 interface between c64 user port - pc serial. but that's simpler than an ethernet thing. < 1288559879 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear people who write wrapper scripts: please don't document the meanings of the options solely in terms of the system you're wrapping. it kind of defeats the purpose. thanks, -chris < 1288559921 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: your line was too long for this client: it cuts of at "it kind of". < 1288559934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shows up all proper here, though. < 1288559953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: McSweeney's would publish that. < 1288560282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, C64 fans, this is your chance to tell me of all the things I ABSOLUTELY MUST do on it. < 1288560323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE64: Hey, does the mouse emulation work in Contiki? < 1288560325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be cool. < 1288560363 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't tried. in theory i think some versions should support the 1351 mouse. < 1288560386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, a demo written in Haskell: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=52995 < 1288560414 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did try enabling it in vice, but it only captured my cursor, that was all. < 1288560469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288560472 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling contiki 1351 shows some contiki-2.x drivers, that's about all. < 1288560480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contiki 2 appears to not have the gui or something < 1288560481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1288560502 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems so. a shame: it looks so nice. < 1288560513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1288560517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't look nice on c64! < 1288560523 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you find that article? < 1288560533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not yet -- i'll keep looking, i swear :) < 1288560553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's a very good article so i really do want to find it < 1288560686 0 :FIZZIE64!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288560963 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm doin' it wrong < 1288560970 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts over
< 1288561017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1288561021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 I=0 < 1288561023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 POKE I,I < 1288561025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 I=I+1 < 1288561027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 GOTO 10 < 1288561032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately this is not quite as spectacular as I hoped. < 1288561155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poke at 53280, you'll change the screen border color. < 1288561156 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I am PUZZLED! < 1288561184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There's display hacks that involve poking it multiple times a redraw, right? < 1288561186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something? < 1288561193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey's thing did something like that but with magic. < 1288561207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can "open" up the borders; it's a fascinating read. < 1288561220 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integrating the circumference of a circle around a given axis should be its surface area, should it not? < 1288561233 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288561246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you do XOR in C64 BASIC? < 1288561273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.unusedino.de/ec64/technical/misc/vic656x/vic656x.html 3.14.1 for screen border magic. < 1288561317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1288561319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But srsly, xor? < 1288561376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps not. < 1288561385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just plain OR? < 1288561395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or even *modulo*? < 1288561419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's AND and OR operators. < 1288561437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me it has modulo. < 1288561440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try "print (1 and 5)" vs. "print (1 or 5)". < 1288561462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fine, have it your way. < 1288561482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 FOR I=10 TO 16 : POKE 53280,((PEEK(53280)+I)OR I) < 1288561483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 GOTO 10 < 1288561487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see what this does. < 1288561506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fails! < 1288561511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should have expected that. < 1288561517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's gotta have modulo! < 1288561558 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288561564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: MODULO IN C64 BASIC, WHAT IS IT < 1288561581 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is not anything < 1288561585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAYUM < 1288561604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 FOR I=10 TO 16 : POKE 53280,((PEEK(53280)+I)OR I) < 1288561604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20 GOTO 10 < 1288561606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this works as "AND I" < 1288561613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does indeed produce snazzy inter-frame effects! < 1288561616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"snazzy" < 1288561657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can compute X-(Y*INT(X/Y)) for a modulo, in case you don't mind waiting billions of cycles. < 1288561747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 IF I>15 : I=0 < 1288561751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boggles that this is invalid syntax
< 1288561759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need a goto in there or something? < 1288561771 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN instead of : < 1288561775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288561789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay NOW it's snazzy < 1288561791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's an IF-THEN statement, not some sort of IF-: statement. < 1288561795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 I=0 < 1288561795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 FOR J=I TO 16 : POKE 53280,((PEEK(53280)+J) AND I) < 1288561795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 I=I+1 < 1288561795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 IF I>15 THEN I=0 < 1288561795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 GOTO 20 < 1288561805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i need is equally bad music < 1288561854 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do? < 1288561862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: makes the border flicker all sorts of fun stuff < 1288561866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around the basic "window" < 1288561869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BASIC < 1288561878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple epilepsy-inducing colours per frame < 1288561895 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the two books I was referring to are the "Programmer's Reference Guide" and "Mapping the Commodore 64". < 1288561903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ok < 1288561907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: are you on CURRENT now? < 1288561917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HAY CAN I STOP EXECUTING IT WITHOUT RESETTING (lawl) < 1288561917 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not as such, no < 1288561921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably not, i guess) < 1288561935 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Run/Stop+Restore < 1288561947 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a very soft reset though < 1288561977 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall what VICE maps those keys to exactly < 1288561979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up commodore keyboard :P
< 1288561992 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caps Lock+Backspace? maybe? < 1288562004 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also depends on your keymapping of course) < 1288562013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A simple 'esc' key might work. < 1288562018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's where VICE puts run/stop. < 1288562026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo it works < 1288562031 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah < 1288562034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie can have my firstborn < 1288562034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a basic program, it's terminatable with any sort of reset. < 1288562043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/with/without/ < 1288562053 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC doesn't need a reset. Shows how long I've been not using BASIC! < 1288562105 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god, people actually *like* Garfield. < 1288562105 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shivers.
< 1288562106 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, comment. < 1288562106 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1288562107 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: creed now thats totally subjective try them and see if they have an image in the same way < 1288562129 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so apparently the 'bind' distribution comes with EVERY RFC EVER < 1288562147 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288562164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ew bind < 1288562187 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288562191 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god, people actually *like* Garfield. < 1288562193 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shivers.
< 1288562197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Dear god, people actually *like* Garfield. < 1288562197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Phantom_Hoover_ shivers. < 1288562198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungot, comment. < 1288562198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Quit: Leaving) < 1288562198 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ( in various shapes and forms, e.g. counting the number of fnord very few albums/ v293/ bitwize/ 20051229.png < 1288562268 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deja fnord < 1288562295 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: < fungot> Phantom_Hoover_: creed now thats totally subjective try them and see if they have an image in the same way < 1288562295 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i can't remember which one though ( scrol down)? tried toggling hardware/ software flow control on and off, etc. < 1288562332 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyaah, I hate this connection. < 1288562407 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288562498 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1288562525 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK you must look up how to made bad SID music and do that < 1288562537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: in BASIC? :D < 1288562548 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! well, if you like. < 1288562553 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly possible < 1288562652 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BASIC programming manual shows how to make bas SID music in BASIC, for example. < 1288562674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even a "for I=1 to 250" do-nothing loop for timing. < 1288562689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1288562722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=30008 Ha ha, fuck you borders. < 1288562778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lemon64.com/manual/ 8.2 for an ugly HTMLization. < 1288562795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the Programmer's Guide is a lot better text indeed. < 1288562803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, well, bad music. < 1288562839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "DOLL CRYING" sound effect there, for example. < 1288562890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks WAY TOO COMPLICATED for the likes of ME < 1288562909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile < 1288562913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: dude how the fuck do you use befos < 1288562914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just some POKEs. < 1288562928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: when i jump to conway it's just a bunch of noise < 1288562930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and random characters < 1288562934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the game of frikkin' live < 1288562936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*life < 1288562952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the legend works though < 1288563004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C128 basic has a SOUND statement for bad music, but I don't think the C64 had it. < 1288563027 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um so i'm cvs updating netbsd sources, right? it's got lua somewhere in it... i recognized the source files as it scrolled by < 1288563058 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: indeed, it did not < 1288563059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: HOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWERTYU < 1288563079 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befos? < 1288563087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the PLAY statement, which is what I meant. < 1288563094 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... you boot it, and you press keys < 1288563098 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the documentation sucks < 1288563114 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually updated it recently to have a page with the key bindings listed on it < 1288563119 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haven't released that < 1288563124 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you want to use befos? < 1288563156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C.f. http://www.commodore.ca/manuals/128_system_guide/sect-07c.htm#7.4.html HOW SIMPLE! < 1288563157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/befos/README i see the bindings < 1288563162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: 'cuz i ripped off its bootloader < 1288563163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I owe it < 1288563166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: but seriously, how do you run programs? < 1288563168 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they may or may not be accurate < 1288563202 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288563204 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: some key jumps to the start of the currently loaded page, treating it as it is a com file. that is pretty much all you get. < 1288563256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i forget, what exactly is befunge about this again? :) < 1288563282 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there is supposed to be a befunge interpreter in there somewhere :) it never really got fully hooked up < 1288563300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/befos/src/inc/befkeys.inc hell yaeh >_< < 1288563306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dw ExecBeebInstr ; 4100 F7 < 1288563309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let me tell you it's not that < 1288563354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok life works < 1288563363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i like how life trashes the status line but not its colours :) < 1288563364 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pretty much all you get < 1288563372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: the seemingly inexplicable multiple characters used < 1288563440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well that was a thoroughly demented experience < 1288563443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :port it to the c64 < 1288563484 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make more sense there < 1288563506 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1288563647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: whoa, if i put cli before my bootloader the zeroes do different things < 1288563649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS INEXPLICABLE < 1288563877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know of any bootsectors that go into protected mode? :) < 1288564074 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1288564194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: WELL MINE'S GOING TO < 1288564203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's absolutely tiny right now, why not? < 1288564224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it means i can write all of my kernel as 32-bit < 1288564667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you put multiple instructions on one line in nasm? >_> < 1288564759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it has any "split a line" things, so maybe no. < 1288564814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww man, the GDT is a world of pain. < 1288564831 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen calamari: People always thank me for the awesome BF text generator in EgoBot I obviously wrote 'cuz it's in EgoBot! < 1288564851 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1288564892 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288564894 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it started off with much grander ambitions, but I suck at genetic programming < 1288564917 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288565089 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also apparently it doesn't work right now :P < 1288565090 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But imagine it was giving output. < 1288565095 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how's the browser coming? < 1288565109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: you should know i never stay on a project more than two days < 1288565115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from this os < 1288565121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST MAKE GREATEST BOOTSECTOR EVER < 1288565133 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288565165 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... badly? < 1288565178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it views webpages, and can click links and submit forms < 1288565181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what more do you need < 1288565208 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot... I guess I'll stick to firefox < 1288565232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: well anyone who likes firefox would never like kayak anyway < 1288565265 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1288565300 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is /okay/ < 1288565306 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for being a bloated load of crap < 1288565333 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: explain where the bloat is < 1288565347 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it regularly uses all my available memory < 1288565357 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when it's running < 1288565357 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like that browser might be pretty cool for a phone < 1288565362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain where firefox's bloat is ahahaahahaha < 1288565371 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everywhere? < 1288565374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an easier question to answer would be "explain where firefox's bloat isn't" < 1288565376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer being "nowhere" < 1288565384 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION high-fives elliott
< 1288565399 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use, elliott? < 1288565399 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say Internet Explorer, get the fuck out. < 1288565413 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I assume it doesn't implement javascript and for some reason wikipedia decided to require javascript to view sections < 1288565414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have to use Wine to use Internet Explorer and that would be a major feat. < 1288565439 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1288565466 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION uses Chrome and hates himself for it
< 1288565506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with chrome < 1288565508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use midori and hate it < 1288565528 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Midori's okay < 1288565533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just buggy. < 1288565538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would hate to use midori on windows. < 1288565541 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :links2 -g < 1288565547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, exactly, does Firefox allow its extensions to do so much? < 1288565558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if it didn't you'd be asking "Why can't I get an extension to do X?" < 1288565568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, putting "exactly" after questions doesn't make them easier to answer < 1288565582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The Firefox extension model is both an advantage and a disadvantage. < 1288565604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: On the one hand, it lets you completely redo the browser to your liking. On the other, it lets you do precisely that. < 1288565605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to use links2 -g a while back < 1288565608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was... heh < 1288565695 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how does that compare to your browser? < 1288565717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine displays pages a lot more like real browsers, supports js and css fully, etc. :P < 1288565723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, it has no UI. links2 does < 1288565733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(searching, "go to url"... all that useless stuff!) < 1288565740 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288565754 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you wrote your own? < 1288565774 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's text mode, or there is no interface at all? < 1288565778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cal153: gui < 1288565781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just a web page in a window < 1288565781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google < 1288565786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can click links and submit forms from there < 1288565788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail works etc < 1288565796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can get to it from google.com it works :) < 1288565815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What rendering engine? Your own? < 1288565826 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.241.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288565830 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1288565836 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my word < 1288565838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wai < 1288565840 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :links2 has set itself as my default browser < 1288565846 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1288565849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1288565856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you didn't write your own browser < 1288565858 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know it could do that! < 1288565860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you did < 1288565863 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i did < 1288565868 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i blame debian < 1288565870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION headaches
< 1288565881 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your own rendering engine? < 1288565899 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, although i've sort of being trying to create that impression for my own amusement < 1288565908 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in reality, it was just webkit + a scrollbar < 1288565936 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, links2 -g isn't the greatest but the other day when trapped outside X, it was so nice compared to console < 1288565936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels like he asks the important questions now
< 1288565967 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288565982 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes the accomplishment of working with gmail much less impressive :) < 1288565997 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, it's smaller than links2, if you ignore all the python, webkit and gtk libraries underneath < 1288566029 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what we (don' < 1288566034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. Instead of full compatibility with all XUL-based browser extensions, how about compatibility with a subset that doesn't use whatever features touch the GUI significantly < 1288566047 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what we (don't) need is a web browser written in an esolang < 1288566048 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what did you do to cal153? < 1288566049 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: and now i regret mapping caps-lock to ctrl, or hit c-x b and type the code " int foo ( char x) return fnord < 1288566050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe some that do if we can predict exactly what the effect should be in our browser < 1288566050 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*calarmi? < 1288566057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1288566059 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX CAN DO THAT HRURURURRRRGHJ < 1288566067 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: lol < 1288566081 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1288566085 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF LINKS2 DOESN'T SUPPORT FLASH WORST BROWSER EVER I'M UNINSTALLING IT AND RENAMING MY KITTEN < 1288566105 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1288566109 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash is okay < 1288566116 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're into Flash < 1288566116 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I do not understand blatant sarcasm! < 1288566130 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION understands sarcasm okay
< 1288566132 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly not < 1288566135 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was adding input
< 1288566137 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i wonder if arachne compiles on linux < 1288566140 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it even support javascript.. seems link it was elinks that did < 1288566142 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: yes, yes it does < 1288566146 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It primarily runs on DOS based operating systems, but includes builds for Linux as well" < 1288566154 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1288566167 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope it supports framebuffer :) < 1288566170 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used that browser once with a dos tcpip stack when my dad refused to run windows < 1288566178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At what point is Windows no longer DOS-based? Win9x, or WinME? < 1288566183 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, Win2000 < 1288566186 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 2000 < 1288566191 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or nt < 1288566196 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah nt < 1288566210 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nt was around even in the 3.1 days iirc < 1288566218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1288566227 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Available May 24, 2008 < 1288566228 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After more than 8 years since v1.66b, it's finally here...... < 1288566228 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arachne v1.93 for Linux (complete install package for svgalib)" < 1288566229 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svgalib fuck yeah < 1288566248 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT_3.1 < 1288566249 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1993 < 1288566251 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first non-DOS-based windows < 1288566282 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP was when the advertised consumer edition of Windows became non-DOS based < 1288566283 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sorta liked DOS
< 1288566285 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being the first consumer NT OS < 1288566382 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rumors of svgalib's demise are greatly exaggerated < 1288566388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was wrong with NT from a consumer standpoint? < 1288566397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about aalib? < 1288566404 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the sky blue? < 1288566408 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the green grass green? < 1288566415 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libcaca is more fun < 1288566417 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is red not the colour you see when you die? < 1288566420 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, those questions have answers. < 1288566423 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is my keyboard not made of jelly? < 1288566423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1288566448 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever gone into protected mode using assembly before? < 1288566450 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THIS IS KILLING ME < 1288566453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does a bear not sh!t out the pope? < 1288566471 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott> Anyone know of any bootsectors that go into protected mode? :) < 1288566501 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288566504 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better do it after you'r done with using BIOS calls, I think < 1288566506 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I MAY BE TRYING TO WRITE ONE OK < 1288566512 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yeah i am done with bios calls at that point < 1288566519 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i've loaded the kernel and would normally jump there < 1288566526 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm thinkin', i've got space, why not set up the gdt first? < 1288566528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ElliottOS is actually going forward? < 1288566537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arrange so that KERNEL_SEGMENT:0 is in the code part of the gdt < 1288566540 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, this is Tempo < 1288566549 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like elliottos but at least 50 times less ambitious < 1288566550 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like 500 < 1288566553 0 :sbszulu!~dundubala@41.14.213.69 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288566588 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: basically what's gonna happen is that instead of "t!" meaning "loaded, time to jump", "t" will mean "loaded" and "!" will mean "in protected mode, time to jump" :) < 1288566601 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hmm, which actually means that i'll be jumping to another part of the boot sector, which puts the ! there < 1288566605 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and *then* jumping to the kernel < 1288566606 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1288566615 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want some tips on setting up a gdt table in asm without going insane :) < 1288566647 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you but some bytes in memory and set a register to point to it < 1288566679 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i knew that part :) and LGDT too < 1288566682 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not register < 1288566686 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an instruction < 1288566689 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you set the low bit of cr0 < 1288566696 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you jump into the code segment < 1288566696 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uhh < 1288566702 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more the bytes in memory i need some help with < 1288566718 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the examples of gdts i've seen have nice C structures, and then an awful c function that packs the values in a perverse way < 1288566721 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't much help < 1288566728 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i *could* run through the c code and print out the result, but... bleh < 1288566743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, LGDT is "Load Global Descriptor Table register", so it's still a register. < 1288566761 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... right < 1288566772 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, uh, i'm kinda lost. < 1288566870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know, the segment descriptors have a very simple layout: http://zem.fi/~fis/segdesc.png < 1288566923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you just love it how they've interlaced the base address and limit together like that. < 1288566937 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1288566938 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I do. < 1288566994 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Supposedly" it should be ~omg this simple~ to get a flat 4 gig address space: < 1288566995 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GDT[0] = {.base=0, .limit=0, .type=0}; // Selector 0x00 cannot be used < 1288566995 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GDT[1] = {.base=0, .limit=0xffffffff, .type=0x9A}; // Selector 0x08 will be our code < 1288566995 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GDT[2] = {.base=0, .limit=0xffffffff, .type=0x92}; // Selector 0x10 will be our data < 1288566995 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GDT[3] = {.base=&myTss, .limit=sizeof(myTss), .type=0x89}; // You can use LTR(0x18) < 1288567005 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uhh, then it has an awful C function for packing that. < 1288567010 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So lawl. < 1288567041 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like javascript was removed from links2 in 2007 :( < 1288567076 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION uses Chrome with a no-script-like addon
< 1288567076 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1288567087 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: found some stuff: http://gist.github.com/657234 < 1288567104 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: struc? fuck that shit < 1288567124 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott_> has anyone ever gone into protected mode using assembly before? < 1288567129 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean here < 1288567131 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"using assembly" < 1288567131 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally < 1288567131 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1288567136 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i.e. no C code to build the gdt < 1288567143 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manually writing it < 1288567150 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1288567159 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: actually, the "struc" is completely unused afaict :D < 1288567247 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha, Chrome has its own no-script-like feature < 1288567254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need an addon < 1288567266 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: heh < 1288567286 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: noscript also lets you add things to a whitelist without going into preferences etc. < 1288567290 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: i don't use noscript) < 1288567297 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: still, though, it packs things itself < 1288567303 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just the define_descriptor that expands to dw/db and makes constant data of it, then the rest of the code just refers to it where it got loaded by the boot sector < 1288567304 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288567310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so does Chrome's feature < 1288567318 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm looks like you're right < 1288567323 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i haven't seen it < 1288567331 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if that's shorter or longer than the shortest code for writing it into memory < 1288567345 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's just that i'm in a bootsector, and i already have floppy reading and screen output code, so i don't have space for packing and other silly things :) < 1288567356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not allow any site to run Javascript < 1288567362 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then go to a site that uses Javascript < 1288567368 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll see a thingy in the address bar < 1288567370 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i *could* load the gdt from sector 2 of the floppy but no :) < 1288567382 0 :sbszulu!~dundubala@41.14.213.69 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288567423 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah my current bootloader, sans the loads of zeroes after it and the bootable header, is 71 bytes < 1288567434 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last two bytes have to be the bootable header < 1288567438 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have 439 bytes free < 1288567439 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot, really < 1288567460 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you need like 30 bytes for the constant data in this program, I think < 1288567461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The struc is not only unused, it's mostly just misleading: part of the segment limit (the top four bits) is in the field it calls "access" -- the f in those 0xcf values in the macro invocation -- and the macros RX_ACCESS and RW_ACCESS, despite their name, actually go in the "flags" field. < 1288567475 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: did you write this? < 1288567512 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, as I remember it I did - but obviously the struct definition is borrowed from somewhere, the macro might be too < 1288567519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False documentation should be a capital offense. < 1288567525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION proceeds to give himself a lethal injection
< 1288567531 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: give me all rights to use it and license it however i want etc.? :P < 1288567535 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR ELSE < 1288567545 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll put ; thanks olsner in :P < 1288567562 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; thanks to cpressey and olsner < 1288567562 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; without whom i would have had to actually learn how to do this myself < 1288567598 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that align 4 is vaguely worrying < 1288567622 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i want to align it i should have the right number of instructions MYSELF! < 1288567660 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: go ahead and use that if you want, just don't complain if it doesn't work :) < 1288567674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Or, to fix my previous statement: parts of the segment limit are in the struc field "granularity"; I got confused because the struc calls the two fields "access, granularity" while the macro comments call them "flags, access"; I like it how they use the same word "access" for two different places there. < 1288567740 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what is that access field? < 1288567742 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xCF < 1288567749 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, To get limit of FFFF FFFF, you need to set all limit bits to 1 and also set the granularity bit. < 1288567753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's not really a complicated thing at all: just bits in fields. You would have gotten the format from either the Intel or the AMD docs. < 1288567767 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i know but the gdtr stuff sorta broke my brain. i'm new to this! < 1288567779 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: magic constant, see the ia32 docs :D < 1288567785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xcf sets four top bits of limit to 1, and the granularity and 32-bit operand size bits. < 1288567793 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i, uh, wow < 1288567802 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : db 0xCF ; access^Wcargo cult magic number! < 1288567826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"G" and "D/B" as well as "SegmentLimit 19-16" in http://zem.fi/~fis/segdesc.png < 1288567845 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CF as byte 6 means Granularity Default/big, bits 28-31 of limit are 1111. < 1288567855 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh gawd, more segment stuff. < 1288567856 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shivers
< 1288567864 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what I meant by "Type", and arbitrarily calling 1010 "cs" and 0010 "ds", but that would be various read/write/execute bits I suppose < 1288567885 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the offset in gdtr? < 1288567895 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>__> < 1288567912 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to ignore the idt forn ow
< 1288567914 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for now < 1288567950 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... i actually have no idea what the offset is < 1288567957 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see this is why i like the idea of unreal mode way better < 1288567973 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i do too, except, i like protected mode since you can rearrange memory but at the same time < 1288567974 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now < 1288567978 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would totally like unreal mode < 1288567986 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh < 1288567997 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To enable unreal mode without using any undocumented features of the CPU, the program has to enter protected mode, locate a flat descriptor in the GDT or LDT or create such, load some of the data segment registers with the respective protected mode "selector", then switch back to real mode." < 1288567998 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1288567999 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT EASIER < 1288568005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Except that in unreal mode you need to build a segment descrip... gah. < 1288568009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also not Easter < 1288568032 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hey your gdtr/gdt_end labels are the SAME < 1288568034 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well yeah, but you don't really have to know what it *means* < 1288568037 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to TAKE ADVANTAGE of THAT < 1288568052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is PLUS FIVE INSIGHTFUL
< 1288568057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: As shown here, you don't really have to know what it *means* either, as long as you can steal someone else's flat-memory-mode descriptor values. < 1288568058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1288568059 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can the offset be zero? < 1288568060 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that's... the address where the boot sector loads this code plus the offset within the code block where the gdt data starts, and looks like it's just a 32-bit absolute physical address < 1288568065 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: true. < 1288568067 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. dd gdt rather than dd gdt+0x800 < 1288568074 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ok, well, in my case, i'm *in* the boot sector. < 1288568084 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so modify the offset :D < 1288568089 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: to, what, zero? < 1288568093 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd gdt? < 1288568101 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no wait < 1288568102 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1288568112 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: your code is inexplicably org 0 < 1288568120 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so would it be dd gdt+0x7C00? < 1288568131 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, since ... i have an org 0x7C00 < 1288568136 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's just gdt < 1288568165 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the best thing about this is that i load the kernel to a segmenty address < 1288568170 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i'm going to have to translate to a flat address < 1288568171 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woop woop < 1288568180 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, setting org correctly might make the assembler make the right offsets automatically, maybe < 1288568181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Microsoft based C++ programming is a big plus " < 1288568190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having trouble figuring out what they mean by this < 1288568199 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ < 1288568200 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1288568203 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what they mean. < 1288568204 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have different 16-bit and 32-bit addresses of course < 1288568210 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they mean C++/CLI? Do they mean Win32 APIs? < 1288568218 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i'm not sure nasm lets you do bits 32 half-way through the file < 1288568222 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: even if it does, i'm not sure that's moral < 1288568224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they mean it only has to compile on a Microsoft compiler? < 1288568231 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should put it in a boot32.s file < 1288568280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can switch the "bits" mode mid-file, and it's... well, I'm not sure about moral, but something like that, anyway. < 1288568288 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1288568290 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some registers need to be zero when you go into protected right? < 1288568292 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If the sentence contains the word "Microsoft", all bets are off < 1288568300 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd quite like bx to persist to the other side < 1288568303 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it defined to? >_> < 1288568304 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's immoral it's probably the only sane way to write it anyway < 1288568360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't imagine why any sane person would use C++/CLI
< 1288568392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The evils of C++ syntax without the native compilation < 1288568471 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: almost certain that none of the registers change values, even the segment registers retain their old real-mode values and behaviour after all < 1288568551 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1288568580 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ha < 1288568601 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ooh, they retain their real mode behaviour? excellent, I can just do this in protected mode < 1288568604 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push KERNEL_SEGMENT < 1288568609 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop KERNEL_SEGMENT < 1288568611 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp 0 < 1288568613 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1288568615 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pop ds < 1288568647 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering if you were expecting the stack to magically translate the address for you, there < 1288568655 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... would love that < 1288568669 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the invisible internal counterpart of ds doesn't change, but in protected mode segment registers take an offset in the GDT rather than an offset in memory < 1288568669 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ebx,0xb8000 < 1288568669 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov [ds:0xb8000], byte 0x43 < 1288568669 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : inc ebx < 1288568669 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov [ds:0xb8001], byte 0x0f < 1288568673 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow now time to figure out what the hell that does! < 1288568687 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: LAME. < 1288568689 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait < 1288568697 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what happens if you read out the value after switching :) < 1288568699 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd better set ds to uh < 1288568701 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 < 1288568702 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1288568706 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before jumping into 32-bit code < 1288568710 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since right now ds is vga memory :) < 1288568715 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this point in my program < 1288568758 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, setting ds to 16 before switching means ds has base 16*16, not that it gets loaded from gdt entry 2 < 1288568787 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so i should zero out ds then? >_< < 1288568789 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suck at this < 1288568811 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you set ds to vga memory, then do nothing, ds will still point to vga memory < 1288568831 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but not work properly as a segment register since stuff would think it's part of the gdt? ok. < 1288568884 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will *work* and point to vga memory, it's the internal state that matters, you know... and that only changes when you explicitly set the segment register somehow < 1288568934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will have a limit of 64k though, until you stick something else in there. < 1288568950 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the same weird stuff happens to the code segment, as you notice the cpu is somehow running code after setting protect enable without having changed the code segment to a protected-mode one < 1288568962 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1288568963 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : inc bx < 1288568963 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : inc bx < 1288568963 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov word [ds:bx], 0x0721 < 1288568967 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely doesn't work in protected mode < 1288568977 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it does seemingly nothing < 1288568983 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1288569006 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no in fact it crashes < 1288569025 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1288569096 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288569100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't "mov word [bx], 0x0721" the same thing as "mov word [ds:bx], 0x0721"? Not like you need a segment override for ds. Not related to your current problem, of course. < 1288569124 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, i was just cargo-culting olsner saying [ds:gdtr] :) < 1288569151 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: fizzie: you lie! if i don't set ds to 0 before protecting, it crashes < 1288569151 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always < 1288569157 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if i just have x: jmp x on the other side < 1288569189 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the protect enable crashes, or the jump into 32-bit code? < 1288569259 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, jump, i guess < 1288569349 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i have to do something with the a20 line at some point don't i? :P < 1288569350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know that when disabling protected mode, the internal segment registers retain their protected-mode age limits and bases until you load ds; maybe entering protected mode is more magical, then. < 1288569393 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protected mode checks the segments and freaks out as they are invalid? < 1288569397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to enable it, unless you want every other megabyte mirror its neighbour. < 1288569409 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: before protected mode? < 1288569444 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Before enabling the A20 with any of the methods described below it is better to test whether the A20 address line was already enabled by the BIOS." < 1288569452 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i really have to do that, sounds boring :) < 1288569507 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can live dangerously i suppose < 1288569507 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288569542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can do it after protected mode too as long as you stay in the first megabyte. < 1288569559 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fixing a20 before using memory above the megabyte will be ... interesting :)