< 1289520016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you need: memcpy, strlen, addition < 1289520019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaddap :P < 1289520026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided that < 1289520029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char start[PATHLEN + LEN("run")] = SV "/"; < 1289520029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : strcpy(start, s); < 1289520029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : strcpy(start, "/run"); < 1289520034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is probably not going to be a performance problem. < 1289520053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: WIMP = Weakly Interacting Massive Particle. The naming coincidence cannot be coincidental, as it is all too apropriate... < 1289520055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*appropriate < 1289520088 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if appropriate means nonsensical, then yes < 1289520105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: WIMP applications (i.e. "GUI applications") don't interact well with each other -- there's no pipes for GUIs, no easy moving of objects around -- and they tend to have many more interface aspects than they need or should have. < 1289520122 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :massive and weakly interacting < 1289520123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: So, yes, WIMP programs are weakly-interacting massive particles. < 1289520138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : massive and weakly interacting <-- ? < 1289520146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is designing a computer that uses the weak nuclear force as a substitute for electricity (yes, I know that somehow in some way I don't understand they're the same thing) < 1289520179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or um.. connected..ish? < 1289520213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: still think it's nonsensical? :p < 1289520289 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually not thinking at all at the moment, just writing code < 1289520449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one "shield" against the weak interaction? < 1289520489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'm reading too much into this < 1289520616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have no idea what you're talking about. < 1289520634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Gravitation:" < 1289520640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cannot be absorbed, transformed, or shielded against" < 1289520655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of read that as implying that the other interactions can < 1289520659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1289520666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction < 1289520826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./sv < 1289520826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: ./sv {u|d} service < 1289520828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to make it do useful things < 1289520894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the unlimited range of the graviton imply masslessness? < 1289521033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For example, a detector with the mass of Jupiter and 100% efficiency, placed in close orbit around a neutron star, would only be expected to observe one graviton every 10 years, even under the most favorable conditions." < 1289521155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A cheat: To prevent people from criticizing your magic numbers, make them deep magic numbers instead. Using the nearest power of 2 (1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128...) as your magical number makes people think there is some deeper magic going on, and they'll be less likely to criticize. *innocent look* < 1289521155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an added bonus, they'll probably spend hours trying to figure out what that deeper magic is. :-) < 1289521155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the opposite of a trick that works. The most suspicious magic numbers of all are the round ones, in any base, but especially base 2 and base 10. PrimeNumbers, on the other hand, are essential for many algorithms to work correctly (e.g. many forms of hashing, with a prime table size). So use numbers like 131 and 6983 :-)" < 1289521237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yellow: "Polynomial!" < 1289521244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base 10 is much more suspicious than base 2 < 1289521292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds has a ... really weird magic number < 1289521329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32764 is the highest coordinate < 1289521355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, at first glance, makes sense, because it's 3 coords away from 32767, which looks like it should make sense < 1289521365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the units are dekameters, and AW does things in centimeters... < 1289521458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Maybe internally, some int that has units of dekameters IS being stored in the client < 1289521460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a signed int < 1289521476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird, but whatever < 1289521782 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be using some bits for tags (e.g. unit = centimeters or dekameters) < 1289521809 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that doesn't necessarily make sense < 1289522457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: can i pay you to write a compiler to machine code in x86-64 assembly < 1289522484 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how your finances are, so it's really impossible for me to tell < 1289522505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ok, what if i didn't pay you? < 1289522510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION LOGIC KING < 1289522522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: also the code is freestanding, so no libc < 1289522522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE FUN < 1289522533 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, my console driver can output single characters and newlines now < 1289522566 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in clear the current line and move to the next line *or the upper-left corner of the screen* < 1289522644 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have programmed the APIC to give timer interrupts < 1289522866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: scrolling is easy, even i did scrolling :P < 1289522869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly in C, but c'mon! < 1289522886 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't bother implementing scrolling :) < 1289522888 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wrapping! < 1289523028 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although haskell is my language of choice for writing compilers, it does seem interesting to write one in assembly < 1289523095 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at topic: GREGOR HAS NOT WASHED HIS BEARD!? FILTHY GREGOR! < 1289523103 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and good night :D < 1289523108 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION strokes his bald chin. < 1289523206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well in this case < 1289523215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it'd be high-level-language to x86-64 machine code, written in x86-64 assembly < 1289523220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so lawl < 1289523228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: (in OS-level code) < 1289523821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/vIIc1.png Google: "Fuck you Facebook" < 1289523949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's going to think that that means the contacts would be deleted from Gmail < 1289524129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1289524132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they aren't. < 1289524161 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have an amazing amount of faith in computer users < 1289524177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, I don't; I have a decent amount of faith in Google's writing team. < 1289524217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/decent/amazing/ < 1289524218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the intersection of "people who are savvy enough to (1) use gmail and (2) put it into facebook to import contacts" and "people who manage to read that as 'we delete u conversations'" is very small. < 1289524230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gmail isn't exactly ubiquitous. < 1289524257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, good point, I guess < 1289524262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: [[Q: GPL sucks! Now I can't compile my BSD programs with the diet libc! < 1289524262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Wrong. You can compile them, and you can use them. You just can't < 1289524262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : redistribute the binaries. That said: I will not be sueing anybody < 1289524262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for distributing binaries of BSD programs linked against dietlibc, as < 1289524262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : long as the source code is available somewhere publicly.]] < 1289524266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's new, I think X-P < 1289524279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Discuss now whether "I will not be sueing anybody [...]" counts as a license to do that.) < 1289524285 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. < 1289524292 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's irrelevant whether it is or not, he's still wrong. < 1289524369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol dietlibc < 1289524423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why lol < 1289524433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPL is really really stupid for libraries. < 1289524439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Especially* statically linked ones. < 1289524461 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lolgpllol < 1289524463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, he is. I'm torn between "hell, developers can go fuck themselves anyway" and "WOULDN'T IT BE SAFER TO SUFFER THROUGH THE QUAGMIRE OF CONFIGURATION AND COMPILATION THAT IS UCLIBC ON A REGULAR BASIS" < 1289524490 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I should just write you a libv < 1289524492 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*libc < 1289524497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah, yeah. at least he's wrong about that and it is legal to redistribute dietlibc-linked binaries, as long as you also offer the source to the program "under the GPL" (i.e. you can offer it under the BSD too, since that can be used as GPL) < 1289524501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sure, that'd be great < 1289524505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: when will it be done < 1289524534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: when you convince my university to let me take that instead of retarded 2nd-year courses < 1289524544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'll pay you 3p a week < 1289524545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1289524566 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not likely < 1289524821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's a few thousand USD, though. < 1289524847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1289524862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, but that money is worthless here < 1289524969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Sadly. < 1289525511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'll pay you $7,000/week to do it. < 1289525513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's 6p!) < 1289525649 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289525760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: To be honest, coreutils would be more useful than a libc. < 1289525874 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: noted! < 1289525917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm gonna go crazy here. $8,000/week. That's 6.86p! < 1289525935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And I'll pay by the SECOND. < 1289526169 0 :jkenj999!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289526538 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I told you < 1289526542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that money is worthless here < 1289526552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the CAD is next < 1289526560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: besides, it has our Queen on it < 1289526565 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 6.86p is only worth like $10 < 1289526573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, $4,000CAD < 1289526582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's law; any piece of metal with the Queen's face on it is legal tender throughout the commonweahlth < 1289526598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: heh i read that as $1 < 1289526600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sneaky sneaky < 1289526786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I highly doubt that. < 1289526804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Treasonerist. < 1289526812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: rebel < 1289526819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Treasonerist. < 1289526961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: congratulations, Hillary Rodham Clinton! < 1289526984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I am in a country formed by treason against the Crown. < 1289527027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And look where that's got you! < 1289527054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got us free of ridiculous libel laws? < 1289527070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Idea < 1289527080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will make coreutils under the Forwardspace banner < 1289527086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just learned about the SPEECH Act of 2010) < 1289527089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forwardspace is like the opposite of Backspace < 1289527093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Do I want to know what that is? < 1289527100 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can also omit the name and also the character afterwards < 1289527110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BTW, your currency is freaking mad. < 1289527124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, Linux distributions that use Forwardspace coreutils should be referred to as "Forwardspace/Linux" or just "Linux" < 1289527127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 14 completely different entities that make it. < 1289527133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "1 UK£ = 1.6121 U.S. dollars" --Google < 1289527145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Or how about just calling it "minimalist core utilities for Linux" :-P < 1289527149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minutils! < 1289527152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Decentralisation, bitch. < 1289527187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when did Hillary Rodham Clinton _call_ a CFJ? < 1289527194 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Minutils/Linux sounds awful < 1289527196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's been the SUBJECT of one, yes < 1289527211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In my imaginary version of the game, Hillary Rodham Clinton punched you to death. < 1289527215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With different currency designs from each entity. < 1289527217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Q.E.D. < 1289527224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think they're basically unified... < 1289527228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So don't call it that :P < 1289527236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The coreutils used is no more important than the libc, the httpd, the package manager. < 1289527246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hell, the kernel -- it's pointless to call anything an "X distribution" really. < 1289527263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All "Linux distribution" means nowadays is "GNU, oh and some of that Torvalds stuff too". < 1289527283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, they're radically different designs for the banknotes. < 1289527291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh the notes. kay < 1289527297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: at least our currency is strong :P < 1289527305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We'll fix that yet. < 1289527306 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://js.codu.org/wiki/ < 1289527311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION exports Bush < 1289527323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dude, we wouldn't let him in. < 1289527330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh how Web 2.0. < 1289527344 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude this shit's so Web 2.0 it's Web 2.2 < 1289527360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is waiting for Web Gingerbread to come out < 1289527366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: When I look at that logo, I see someone trying to sell me something. < 1289527372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Make it Comic Sans or something so I know you don't give a shit. < 1289527372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, we'll export him alright. < 1289527382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And make him all the Lords. < 1289527391 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't do aesthetics, I get other people to :P < 1289527424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION WTFs at the OpenID he just put in < 1289527433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hurf durf codu js < 1289527439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION WTFs even more at it working < 1289527447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O' < 1289527457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1289527461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scotland and Ireland have no legal tender. < 1289527466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, Northern Ireland. < 1289527470 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tiredly put in sgeoster@myopenid.com < 1289527472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ireland, of course, uses the Euro. < 1289527478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got directed to myopenid.com < 1289527501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Repeal the 26th Amendment!" --Ann Coulter < 1289527507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: foo@yahoo.com is a valid OpenID too. < 1289527511 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I DO BELIEVE that they use GBP in Scotland and Northern Ireland, they're not on the barter system :P < 1289527514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Feature, it appears. < 1289527522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes they are. < 1289527523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's not legal tender. < 1289527525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They're also unwashed. < 1289527532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's the *de facto* currency. < 1289527534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: THE MARKET IS THE BLACK MARKET < 1289527543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that just translates to http://foo.yahoo.com ? That's what happened here. Or is that a MyOpenID thing? < 1289527551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: THE SCOTTISH BANK PRINTS SCOTTISH VERSIONS OF GBP < 1289527562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Both do that, clearly. < 1289527566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BANKS < 1289527568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'll scot your version. < 1289527570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NOT BANK, BANKS. < 1289527576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ALSO, THOSE ARE PROMISSORY NOTES. < 1289527585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banksy < 1289527605 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Last I checked, your mom is a promissory note. < 1289527681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE HOW SLOWLY UBUNTU 7.10 INSTALLS UNDER SOFTWARE EMULATION OF X86-64 < 1289527851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fgetty is actually a mingetty stripped of the printfs. Why would anyone do that? Because it can be linked against dietlibc then, yielding a 7k binary with a much smaller memory footprint." < 1289527853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love crazy people. < 1289527882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah! It prints out /etc/issue. < 1289527884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is unacceptable. < 1289527932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaaaaaaaawd this dietlibc guy's license incompetence irks me. < 1289527946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's one single mistake :P < 1289527955 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNACCEPTABLE. < 1289527964 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION angers at a rumor he was sure wasn't true not coming true < 1289527971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not entirely sure that FAQ section *is* new. Besides, he hasn't replied to the second email I sent him -- probably sick of my whining. < 1289527976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although my reason for doubting the rumor turned out to be a bad reason < 1289527981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whargarbles < 1289528064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It does irk me too a bit though but only because I'm planning to actually put it into practice. < 1289528090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: On one hand, of course in court both the truth and his statement that he won't sue would end it immediately. On the other, I don't want to be on the bad side of developers... < 1289528200 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how much memory Jolicloud requires < 1289528427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try and redo my pcc toolchain with dietlibc. < 1289528656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How come CVS isn't dead? < 1289528663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, I've used CVS SO MUCH in the past days. < 1289528668 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same 'ere, actually :P < 1289528669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*past few days. < 1289528683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I thought svn had taken over for all the clods who won't use anything distributed. < 1289528705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif < 1289528705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif < 1289528705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif < 1289528705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif < 1289528705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif < 1289528706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif < 1289528708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1289528709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- dietlibc/Makefile < 1289528717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(17 lines) < 1289528723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently gmake can't do elseif :P < 1289528837 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tastes like lisp :P < 1289528853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Good luck finding a Lisper who does < 1289528853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1289528853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1289528854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1289528856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Rather than ))) :P < 1289528872 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trufe. < 1289528879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Truse? < 1289528890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haa, dietlibc almost compiles with pcc. < 1289528915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make CC="$K/stage1/bin/pcc -D__restrict__= -D__regparm__(x)=" < 1289528925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, needs more escaping, of course. < 1289528942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that doesn't apply inside __attribute__. < 1289528944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, /me patches < 1289528973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Using a BSD compiler to compile something with GPL-related semi-controversy; do I get a medal? < 1289528975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a slap? < 1289528978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/kitten/stage1/bin/pcc -D__restrict__= -I. -isystem include -Os -fstrict-aliasing -momit-leaf-frame-pointer -mfancy-math-387 -W -Wall -Wextra -Wchar-subscripts -Wmissing-prototypes -Wmissing-declarations -Wno-switch -Wno-unused -Wredundant-decls -c lib/qsort.c -o bin-x86_64/qsort.o -D__dietlibc__ < 1289528978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :major internal compiler error: lib/qsort.c, line 34 < 1289528989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a medal. < 1289529001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The evil, evil line 34: < 1289529002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : quicksort(base,size,l,j,compar); < 1289529092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what it thinks is wrong with quicksort :P < 1289529103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: stop being such a ricer < 1289529117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Uhh, because of the flags? Not my flags kthx. < 1289529123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Also, uhh, -Wanything != ricer < 1289529127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only optimisation flags there are < 1289529134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Os -fstrict-aliasing -momit-leaf-frame-pointer -mfancy-math-387 < 1289529137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are hardly "ricer". < 1289529147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your pedantic obssession with tiny libraries and compilers is < 1289529154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, is -fstrict-aliasing strictly an optimisation? (Pun, etc.) < 1289529171 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're certainly nicer < 1289529176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I could respond to that seriously, or I could just roll my eyes and proclaim that, yes, you have successfully deduced my motive from IRC compile logs. < 1289529206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If you pointed me to the BEST LIBC EVER and it just happened to be gigantic, fine. I'd consider it. < 1289529230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as smallness *is* a virtue -- a strong virtue, even -- of software, and those who excel in one software virtue tend to excel in the others (and contrariwise)... < 1289529231 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fstrict-aliasing is not directly an optimization < 1289529252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, smaller code is prettier. And to hell with any system I can't look at and say is pretty in some way, even if it is Unix. < 1289529266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fstrict-aliasing won't do squat at -O0 < 1289529271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like I'm wasting time doing this that I could be spending doing valuable things, this whole thing is an exercise in wheel-polishing^Wreinventing. < 1289529273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: -Os != -O0 < 1289529278 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know < 1289529283 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you asked if it was an optimization < 1289529285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I answered < 1289529292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, I /do/ agree with -Os) < 1289529293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh, okay < 1289529305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Os is usually faster than -O3 these days, I'd wager. < 1289529313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, y'know, small.) < 1289529319 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1289529324 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it generates correct code, etc. < 1289529344 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-ftree-vectorize produces some of the dumbest things ever) < 1289529357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend works a lot on ffmpeg < 1289529366 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they get to find all of GCC's wonderful compiler bugs < 1289529370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :favorite: < 1289529372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Can you use your amazing powers of deduction to figure out what "major internal compiler error: lib/qsort.c, line 34" is telling me, other than "don't use pcc to compile dietlibc"? :P < 1289529375 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int c = i; < 1289529375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, gcc is buggy software. < 1289529376 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c--; < 1289529377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly the buggiest. < 1289529378 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int d = i; < 1289529379 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1289529379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever. < 1289529382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assert(c != d); < 1289529384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASSERTION FAILED < 1289529395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ...you're kidding me < 1289529398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST THING EVER < 1289529400 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1289529403 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I was < 1289529405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: just with heavy optimisation, presumably? < 1289529409 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1289529424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i can *sort* of forgive that because heavy optimisation + assert = why, but on the other hand... gcc fails at basic comparisons WHOO < 1289529434 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B's ruleset is surreal < 1289529436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least when pcc fails, it just says "major internal compiler error" and gives up < 1289529440 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 bugpoint < 1289529445 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: linky < 1289529446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: B stopped being boring as soon as Era 5 ended! < 1289529447 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wrong channel < 1289529448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1289529451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: B stopped being interesting as soon as Era 5 ended! < 1289529461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the most fun bit of chaos EVER and I'm totally not biased. < 1289529476 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like Japanese, where Chinese is the Agoran ruleset. < 1289529478 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1289529532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: ALLOW ME LINK YOU TO THE SUPERIOR, ERA 5 RULESET (AS SOON AS THE WIKI LOADS) < 1289529548 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which was Era 5? < 1289529554 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also WHERE IS MY LINK < 1289529558 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION searches for DimShips and is disappointed < 1289529561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The one me and teucer wrote that CHANGED EVERYTHING. < 1289529565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Era 5 came and went without my noticing? < 1289529574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...era 5, the Agoran Era, and countless crises. < 1289529578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Era 5 was, like, 2008. < 1289529593 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I gave up on B around the Agoran Era < 1289529600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Era 5 was BEFORE that >__< < 1289529604 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule 50 would be fun to scam < 1289529613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was the Era with the Ring of 4E13? < 1289529615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Everyone then spent the whole time whining at me for making it SO BROKEN on a few weeks' notice (it was in an Emergency), spent the rest of the era fixing it up and generally having much fun in chaos without realising it, and then wiping it saying it was AWFUL. < 1289529617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was around then < 1289529620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The game then promptly died. < 1289529622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Era 5 is the obvious answer < 1289529623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "4E13" < 1289529627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1289529634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, _RING OF_ < 1289529635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 4E = Fourth Era, but yes, I think that was 5. < 1289529636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Right. < 1289529640 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, right < 1289529643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In order to be an EU member state, the state must be European. < 1289529644 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bgoran era, you mean < 1289529650 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5. MAY, PERMITTED: Performing the described action does not violate the rule in question. Where there is no more specific indication to the contrary, this also implies that the action is POSSIBLE. < 1289529653 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Bn < 1289529656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Err, no. < 1289529659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where European means "European, as judged by the European Council". < 1289529660 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: LIES < 1289529664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Bgoran era was after that. < 1289529664 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: WHERE IS MY LINK < 1289529677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to take people with me on a journey to retrieve the ring < 1289529681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which allows for EU members to not exist geographically in Europe. < 1289529685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had it all planned out < 1289529689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would take real-world months < 1289529692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1289529703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: comex: Found it, second while Firefox unfreezes. < 1289529711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and there is precedent on this: Cyprus, which joined the EU in 2008, is geographically in Asia) < 1289529712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: comex: http://b.nomic.net/index.php?title=Rules&oldid=9553 < 1289529716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: comex: Behold the AWESOME. < 1289529733 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was around around then < 1289529734 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't remember my plans? < 1289529735 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaguely < 1289529764 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that is far less dumb than it sounds, in my opinion < 1289529765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, sadly, Marr965 was involved < 1289529784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to negotiate with him for.. transportation to our departure point, I think < 1289529821 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "Antient"? < 1289529837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Unbelievably, that Game Objects rule was MORE legalistic and programmerish than before E5. < 1289529840 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is 4E considered imaginary? < 1289529843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I actually TONED DOWN the crazy legalisticness. < 1289529848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: canon crisis < 1289529855 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't there some crisis about comments < 1289529859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: turns out $huge_swathes_of_history never happened for $trivial_ancient_reason < 1289529860 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that applied way back to the original ruleset? < 1289529869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: yes, but i think it was after that < 1289529876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comment crisis was what brought era 5 down I think < 1289529887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ask me, the Grid game was AWESOME. < 1289529913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to check his archives < 1289529916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I also refactored the proposal passing logic... BUT WHAT DO I GET FOR IT? < 1289529917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTHING! < 1289529932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# If it is Won, it Passes. < 1289529932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Otherwise, it Fails. < 1289529969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Prize: A T-Shirt reading "I won B Nomic via at least three different Victory Conditions during an nweek, and had not won by the Win By Having Won condition during that nweek, and all I got was this stupid T-Shirt".]] < 1289530003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Marr965, would you like to help Teucer, Warrigal, and myself shave 17 < 1289530003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ndays off of what would be a 67 nday journey?" < 1289530019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did the era even last 67, or even 50, ndays? < 1289530049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lasted like 7 at the most :P < 1289530084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love to have a month-or-more-long era that lasts an nday or less. < 1289530099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(Discussion < 1289530099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including whether a 50 nday journey is even worth it.)" < 1289530191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: how to get past the major compiler error: compile just that file with gcc < 1289530250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://freefall.purrsia.com/ < 1289530253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM OFFENDED < 1289530263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: not really) < 1289530412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libpthread/pthread_internal.c:397: error: If-less else < 1289530413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO NOT REASSURING < 1289530433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notably, there's a mess of cpp here, so I don't know WHERE line 397 is :P < 1289530442 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION registers < 1289530444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::q < 1289530446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1289530452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: for C Nomic? < 1289530466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (__likely(__modern_linux==1)) < 1289530471 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates how :wq writes and quits, but :w!q writes to the file 'q' < 1289530484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: :wq! :p < 1289530496 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should help us destroy Agora < 1289530500 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does that code include a runtime optimization for something that should fold to a constant < 1289530506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that ... why < 1289530508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: i don't know < 1289530518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: it's pthreads, all bets are off < 1289530553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, time-honoured trick; s/pcc/gcc/, carry on < 1289530565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D that fails < 1289530617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will not stop attempts to destroy Agora unless they require the cooperation of more than 20 people < 1289530626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1289530708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it succeeded < 1289530715 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was just a sad truth < 1289530719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actually funny < 1289530783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could work on attempting to scam-proof the ruleset < 1289530805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as in, "impossible" < 1289530820 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty scam-proof as is < 1289530827 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can escalate from 1->3 easily < 1289530830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but getting 1 is hard < 1289530849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you considered doing /other/ things < 1289530855 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, except I think it's now scammable < 1289530861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could make activeworlds a partnership, and we could fine it a billion fucking dollars. < 1289530871 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought partnerships were dead < 1289530891 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still wants to revive Framework Nomic < 1289530893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1289530898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that like reviving a fetus? < 1289531015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been fantasizing about MMONomic < 1289531054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You are banned from saying these words, indefinitely: < 1289531056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: - nostalgia < 1289531058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: - revive < 1289531065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: - fantasise (and all derivative words). < 1289531069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Thank you and have a nice day. < 1289531087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- fantasy and derivatives too, to stop you loopholing that. < 1289531156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm not allowed to express my nostalgia for the days that I was more activie reviving a dead game that I've fantasized about playing again for years? < 1289531191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You do realise I'm an op? < 1289531260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you're not. < 1289531273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You don't know that. < 1289531278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I do < 1289531302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Wrong. < 1289531305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're secretly andreou or Aardappel < 1289531339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or lament or oerjan or fizzie, for that matter < 1289531350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Or it's just hidden in the access list. < 1289531408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why I should believe that that's possible < 1289531430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you *sure* you want a demonstration...? < 1289531438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1289531486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you sure you know how unreliable my memory is at making me remember to reverse things? < 1289531495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not doing it. :P < 1289531510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bannation isn't the only way to demonstrate oppness < 1289531531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But let's pretend it is. < 1289531565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, considering I don't have make-op privileges, only ChanServ privileges... < 1289531578 0 :RandSgeo!18bf618a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.191.97.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289531589 0 :RandSgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1289531603 0 :RandSgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you can ban just my nick+web ness < 1289531628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RandSgeo: Well, yes, but I don't particularly care to. < 1289531648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I could offer something of value :/ < 1289531663 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't exactly have a million dollars on me < 1289531681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You could never say the words I listed ever again >__> < 1289531724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about for the period of a month < 1289531741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Or forever. < 1289531779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's confidence should not be wavering < 1289531790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confidence in what? < 1289531801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're the one offering me things so you can *get banned*. < 1289531822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confidence in the idea that you have no capacity to ban me < 1289531848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have lost track of your layers of thought. Now why is the Ubuntu installation only at 31%? Could it go slower, theoretically? (No.) < 1289531894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. I'll keep on assuming that you have no bannination powers < 1289531925 0 :RandSgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1289531934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fake gasp* < 1289532428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ CC="$K/stage1/bin/pcc -nostdlib -nostdinc -nostartfiles -static -isystem $K/stage1/include -D__dietlibc__ -Os -L$K/stage1/lib-x86_64 $K/stage1/lib-x86_64/start.o $K/stage1/lib-x86_64/libc.a" ./configure --prefix=$K/stage2 < 1289532430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god. < 1289533648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/kitten$ du -sh --exclude=include --exclude=lib-x86_64 stage1 < 1289533649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :572K stage1 < 1289533649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/kitten$ du -sh --exclude=include --exclude=lib-x86_64 stage2 < 1289533649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :556K stage2 < 1289533655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Static linking, it's what plants crave. < 1289533665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now let's see if I can compile dietlibc with pcc. :p < 1289533928 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess: No. < 1289533935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Actually... pretty damn close. < 1289533947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I've even managed to fix the "major internal compiler error" that made me have to compile a certain file with gcc before. < 1289533987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, damn, pcc is fast. < 1289533998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mostly what I have to fix is removing unsupported __attribute__s. < 1289534005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as the format(printf,x,y) stuff. < 1289534096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, there is this utterly queer issue though: < 1289534099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/kitten/stage2/bin/pcc -D__restrict__= -I. -isystem include -Os -fstrict-aliasing -momit-leaf-frame-pointer -mfancy-math-387 -W -Wall -Wextra -Wchar-subscripts -Wmissing-prototypes -Wmissing-declarations -Wno-switch -Wno-unused -Wredundant-decls -c libpthread/pthread_internal.c -o bin-x86_64/pthread_internal.o < 1289534099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libpthread/pthread_internal.c:397: error: If-less else < 1289534102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: No if-less elses in the file. < 1289534126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define INTR_RETRY(e) ({ long ret; do ret=(long)(e); while ((ret==-1)&&(_errno_==EINTR)); ret; }) < 1289534126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __NO_ASYNC_CANCEL_STOP } < 1289534130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am already inspired with confidence at this file. < 1289534153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (__likely(__modern_linux==1)) < 1289534155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still love this. < 1289534163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the way it reads. < 1289534370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1289534374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the C preprocessor complaining. < 1289534377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REAL UNAMBIGUOUS THERE < 1289534411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way it reads isn't what it means < 1289534413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haa, pcc can't count. < 1289534414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't say I love that < 1289534426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's called amusement. < 1289534459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should learn how microprocessors work < 1289534594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/kitten/stage2/bin/pcc -D__restrict__= -I. -isystem include -Os -fstrict-aliasing -momit-leaf-frame-pointer -mfancy-math-387 -W -Wall -Wextra -Wchar-subscripts -Wmissing-prototypes -Wmissing-declarations -Wno-switch -Wno-unused -Wredundant-decls -c libpthread/pthread_sys_close.c -o bin-x86_64/pthread_sys_close.o < 1289534594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libpthread/pthread_sys_close.c:7: error: expdef: out of mem < 1289534609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file is 9 lines long. < 1289534951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ha ha, it worked. Pay up. Whoops, look at that error. < 1289535048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it really did work. < 1289535115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure:2642: /home/elliott/kitten/stage3/bin/diet -V >&5 < 1289535115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execvp() failed! < 1289535121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, whoops. < 1289535139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/kitten/stage3/include/dietref.h:-21: error: __PCC__ redefined < 1289535231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if (__WORDSIZE == 64) < 1289535231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.quad __you_tried_to_link_a_dietlibc_object_against_glibc < 1289535232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else < 1289535232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.long __you_tried_to_link_a_dietlibc_object_against_glibc < 1289535232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1289535286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where exactly line -21 of that file is. < 1289535702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/kitten/stage3/include/dietref.h:-21: error: __PCC__ redefined < 1289535703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :previous define: x.c:-21 < 1289535704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... < 1289535952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, fixed it < 1289535992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ CC="$K/stage3/bin/diet -Os $K/stage2/bin/pcc" CFLAGS="-Os" ./configure --prefix=$K/stage3 < 1289536011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually CFLAGS="", diet adds -Os itself < 1289536505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT WHAT < 1289536522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not < 1289536573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1289536605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried some Facebook thing that attempted to automatically import Google Contacts < 1289536607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fuss < 1289536620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's clear that no contacts got exported < 1289536630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It claimed that everyone's already on FB or got an invite < 1289536641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And somehow, I doubt that Agora got a Facebook invite < 1289536771 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh: "Today's IANA depletion date estimate:2011-02-21". That's months earlier than anything recent I have seen. < 1289536804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have a meta-compiled-to-the-N dietlibc/pcc toolchain working except for one... minor... detail. < 1289536806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Nice. < 1289536825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: We should hold a party on IPv4 Doomsday (defined as: the day when the last allocation *really* gets made, ever, no delegation). < 1289536870 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on this model: 2012-08-29 IANA ANNOUNCE ALL DEPLETED < 1289536934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Specifically: Calling a macro like MACRO() doesn't work. Seriously: zero-argument macros don't work. I looked at the pcc code. malloc is failing. ?! < 1289536954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Got any links to that model? Also, that's amusingly close to December 21, 2012. < 1289537009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Kitten is obviously having difficulty with more than a few bytes of memory < 1289537012 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ipv4depletion.com/?page_id=77 < 1289537044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Thank you. < 1289537061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I really need to switch to an IPv6 provider. < 1289537284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: gcc - 5.0K, pcc - 4.6K < 1289537286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.3K BETTER < 1289537289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pcc that is) < 1289537335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, pcc produces smaller code. < 1289537340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1289537349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, with diet's -Os, yes. < 1289537362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now help me DEBUG: < 1289537364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((args = malloc(sizeof(usch *) * (narg+ellips))) == NULL) < 1289537364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : error("expdef: out of mem"); < 1289537374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WHY WOULD THIS (1) EVER HAPPEN (2) ONLY HAPPEN WHEN YOU CALL A ZERO-ARGUMENT MACRO AND NO OTHER TIME < 1289537377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHYYYYYYYYYY < 1289537387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A-HA. < 1289537394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Perhaps that number ends up ZERO! < 1289537399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would do it. < 1289537408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc(0) should return NULL... < 1289537410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((args = malloc(sizeof(usch *) * ((narg+ellips) || 1))) == NULL) < 1289537414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right, but glibc's doesn't. < 1289537416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And perhaps BSD libc too. < 1289537420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now let's try recompiling. < 1289537428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm. Actually, that may be undefined behavior. < 1289537437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regardless. That's plausible. < 1289537443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IIRC POSIX says that malloc(0) = NULL. < 1289537461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm, got a nicer way to write my ||1 there? < 1289537469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just do +1, but that's wasteful! :P < 1289537479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, (narg+ellips || 1) should work. < 1289537543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ CC="$K/stage3/bin/diet -Os $K/stage2/bin/pcc" CFLAGS="" ./configure --prefix=$K/stage3 < 1289537562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ha, wait, I really need to start from scratch, as my *current* compiler can't handle it. < 1289537567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Still -- I have the build process down, yo. < 1289537623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Let's try and get the earliest date! < 1289537627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-03-22 IANA ANNOUNCE DEPLETED < 1289537632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-08-13 IANA ANNOUNCE ALL DEPLETED < 1289537708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-04-24 IANA ANNOUNCE DEPLETED < 1289537712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2014-09-22 IANA ANNOUNCE ALL DEPLETED < 1289537731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2015-06-15 LACNIC ANNOUNCE DEPLETED < 1289537732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2016-01-24 IANA ERROR NO MORE DATA < 1289537793 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289537867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Say, do you know what diff format a CVS-using project will like best? "cvs diff" spews an awful lot. < 1289537888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Moreover it is ugly. :P) < 1289538103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor has <<<<< and >>>>> words etc. to raise an error if someone tries using a conflicted Factor file < 1289538356 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keywords that just raise errors and do nothing else? < 1289538388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: probably < 1289538401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: would be amusing if they started up an interactive merge, and then continued loading the file after it was resolved < 1289538516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.factorcode.org/content/word-__lt____lt____lt____lt____lt____lt__%2Csyntax.html < 1289538730 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289538959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ patch -p0 < ../dietlibc-for-pcc.patch < 1289538961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it works. < 1289538986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- if ((args = malloc(sizeof(usch *) * (narg+ellips))) == NULL) < 1289538986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ if ((args = malloc(sizeof(usch *) * (narg+ellips || 1))) == NULL) < 1289538993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, this is ugly. Can anyone think of a better way to write that? < 1289539041 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How that does even work? < 1289539072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Sometimes narg+ellips is 0. pcc, being a naughty boy and defiant of standards, assumes that malloc(0) is a proper pointer, and malloc(N) being NULL for any N just means that we're out of memory. < 1289539079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: glibc has malloc(0) point to memory (!). < 1289539090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: But dietlibc doesn't. So, when narg+ellips = 0, the code is 0 || 1, which is 1. < 1289539097 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That 'narg+ellips || 1' thing < 1289539106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: (narg+ellips || 1) = max(narg+ellips, 1) < 1289539113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: (narg+ellips || 1) --> (42 || 1) --> 42 < 1289539119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: (narg+ellips || 1) --> (0 || 1) --> 1 < 1289539123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking advantage of the fact that false=0, true=1 in C. < 1289539163 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh... Where is that || -> max guaranteed? < 1289539175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Erm, it's not; it only works in this case. < 1289539193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: It's just boolean logic. 0 || X = X. Y || X = Y iff Y>0. < 1289539207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: In this case, X = 1. So if Y=0, Y||X = 1. < 1289539241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I can try and explain more :) < 1289539370 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lua 'or' operator is whacky: If first argument is "true", return that, otherwise return the second argument. ('and' returns second argument if first is "true", otherwise the first). < 1289539385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: That's actually ubiquitous in dynamic languages. < 1289539392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python and Ruby do that too. I think Perl might. < 1289539406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Also, I imagine that in Lua, (3 or 5) is 3. < 1289539414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Since all non-"false" values will be considered true. < 1289539419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than it checking for true specifically. < 1289539424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless Lua is super-freaky.) < 1289539489 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 or 5 is indeed 3. < 1289539525 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit whackier: 0 or 1 is 0. :-) < 1289539543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, most dynamic languages don't treat ints as bools either. < 1289539558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is an exception; it didn't use to have a bool type, and things like (0 or x) == x and also ([] or x) == x. < 1289539561 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lua has exactly two false values: nil and false. < 1289539567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and, not and things like < 1289539570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Same in Ruby. < 1289539591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus! I just rm'd my patches by mistake. But I saved the big one. < 1289539870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Build pcc (stage1). < 1289539870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Build pcc-libs (stage1). < 1289539870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. Build dietlibc with pcc (stage2). < 1289539870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. Build pcc with dietlibc and stage1 pcc (stage2). < 1289539875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: See any holes in my bootstrapping there? < 1289539931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not currently. < 1289539951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yay. Previously, I had three stages, but then I was playing it by ear. < 1289539985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That appears to be the typical bootstrapping procedure, actually. < 1289540037 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that in Javascript, using || returns the left side if the left side is a value considered true, while && is the other way around. < 1289540047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Here's my HOLY FUCKING SHIT CRAZY patch against dietlibc to make it build with pcc: http://sprunge.us/LJaX < 1289540062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- tcbhead_t* me=alloca(sizeof(tcbhead_t) < 1289540062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-#ifdef WANT_TLS < 1289540062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- +__tmemsize); < 1289540062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+#ifndef WANT_TLS < 1289540062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ tcbhead_t* me=alloca(sizeof(tcbhead_t)); < 1289540063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+#else < 1289540065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ tcbhead_t* me=alloca(sizeof(tcbhead_t)+__tmemsize); < 1289540067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I cannot believe that is required. < 1289540074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It makes me very suspicious of pcc's cpp. < 1289540108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, those __TEST_CANCEL() changes are totally unneeded, now that I have the fix in pcc. < 1289540109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. < 1289540182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Let me just say now that building things with dietlibc, even when it's difficult, is so insanely less painful than building them with gcc. < 1289540185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm. < 1289540187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Let me just say now that building things with dietlibc, even when it's difficult, is so insanely less painful than building them with uClibc. < 1289540194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uClibc does some kind of black magic and fuck that. < 1289540206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not that dietlibc is perfect... it warns you every single time you use stdio. < 1289540210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, printf. < 1289540210 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I asked which way you prefer to make GF-Magick work with GraphicsMagick, it is not a good answer to just say you like any ways. A better answer is the advance of one or more ways, and which way you would probably use if you were using this program. < 1289540224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am not sure. I would have to use it to see. < 1289540234 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It warns about stdio? < 1289540255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; stdio functions are rather big so it warns that they inflate the binary by 7k or so. < 1289540288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./libugly/system.c:link_warning("system","warning: system() is a security risk. Use fork and execvp instead!") < 1289540301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Gotta love a library that doesn't have system() by default... I am not sure dietlibc will work for the whole system. < 1289540331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./libpthread/pthread_errno.c:link_warning("errno","\e[1;33;41m>>> your multithreaded code uses errno! <<<\e[0m"); < 1289540343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I swear to god it highlights the warning with colour codes. < 1289540362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./libcruft/tempnam.c:link_warning("tempnam","\e[1;33;41m>>> tempnam stinks! NEVER ! NEVER USE IT ! <<<\e[0m"); < 1289540371 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ah many functions such as printf would be large, so, perhaps put printf and stuff in a separate file so that you can link separately, and also have perhaps printf optimizing at compile time?? < 1289540384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It does not include printf unless you use it. < 1289540419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Aha, I can just disable WANT_LINKER_WARNINGS. < 1289540453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * that is realloc-able; means realloc(..,size) gives a NEW object (like a < 1289540453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * call to malloc(size)). < 1289540453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * WARNING: this violates C99 */ < 1289540457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1289540460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* do you want that malloc(0) return a pointer to a "zero-length" object < 1289540461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * that is realloc-able; means realloc(..,size) gives a NEW object (like a < 1289540461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * call to malloc(size)). < 1289540461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * WARNING: this violates C99 */ < 1289540464 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you do use printf (and sprintf, and fprintf, and so on), that there could be a way of optimizing some uses of printf style functions at compile time < 1289540469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So yeah, malloc(0) != NULL is invalid C99. < 1289540554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that whether malloc(0) == NULL should be up to the implementation, but that if malloc(0) == NULL then realloc(NULL,x) should do like malloc(x). At least this is my opinion of what it should do. < 1289540679 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion of this? < 1289540932 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One night without a proper dinner shouldn't kill me < 1289540933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1289540939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is too tired to eat < 1289540952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make CC="$K/stage1/bin/pcc -D__restrict__=" prefix=$K/stage2 < 1289540953 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1289540956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The moment of truth. < 1289540974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** glibc detected *** cpp: free(): invalid next size (fast): 0x0000000000de4d30 *** < 1289540987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I... ??????????????????????? < 1289541015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm dead in the morning I'm blaming Ilari < 1289541037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Have you *never* gone a night without dinner before or something? < 1289541065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I can recall < 1289541069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1289541085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.. once. Or I think I forced myself to eat a sandwich that night < 1289541095 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, when I was a little kid, all bets are off < 1289541128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, night all < 1289541170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289541241 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you have a program that unpacks only what is used, to have both speed and small? < 1289541422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Isn't that already how malloc(0) is specced to work? (Except that realloc(NULL, x) == malloc(x) even if malloc(0) does return an actual, free()able pointer.) < 1289541422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Only unpacks what? < 1289541433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: malloc(0) is specified to return NULL in C99, I think. < 1289541443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or at least, "you're not allowed to use the return value of malloc(0), so STFU". < 1289541485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Description < 1289541485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 The malloc function allocates space for an object whose size is specified by size and < 1289541485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : whose value is indeterminate. < 1289541485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Returns < 1289541485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 The malloc function returns either a null pointer or a pointer to the allocated space. < 1289541493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or let's just go with "the C99 draft is hopelessly vague on this point". < 1289541507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aha: " If the size of the space requested is zero, the behavior is implementation- < 1289541508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defined: either a null pointer is returned, or the behavior is as if the size were some < 1289541508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonzero value, except that the returned pointer shall not be used to access an object." < 1289541513 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "If size is 0, either a null pointer or a unique pointer that can be successfully passed to free() shall be returned." (Posix 2008, which is supposed to be aligned with C99) < 1289541517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1289541520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: tl;dr malloc(0) can be anything, but you can't look at it. < 1289541547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Anyway, assuming that malloc(0) == NULL means that you're out of memory is definitely wrong, so there. Now rewrite (foo+bar || 1). < 1289541584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? It can't be "anything": it's implementation-definedly (means it has to be documented) either NULL or a real pointer you can free, just not dereference. < 1289541642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay, true. < 1289541645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Missed that detail. < 1289541651 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently ARIN will grab its two blocks first... < 1289541659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now you get to tell me why free(args) would fail after doing: < 1289541661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((args = malloc(sizeof(usch *) * (narg+ellips || 1))) == NULL) < 1289541665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: where narg+ellips = 0. < 1289541667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Gogogogogogo. < 1289541676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And no, there are no previous frees.) < 1289541680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** glibc detected *** cpp: free(): invalid next size (fast): 0x0000000000de4d30 *** < 1289541683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the inexplicable error. < 1289541686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O, that is how the C99 draft works? In my opinion how it should work is that if malloc(0) returns NULL then you can free(NULL) safely and that if malloc(0) returns NULL then realloc(NULL,x) acts like malloc(x), but that if malloc(0) does not return NULL, then its return value must be safely pass to free() but < 1289541713 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that in case of malloc(0) != NULL then there is no guarantee that free(NULL) or realloc(NULL,x) has to be meaningful. < 1289541726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can free(NULL) and realloc(NULL,x) safely in all cases, is how it works. < 1289541730 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least this is what makes sense to me. < 1289541737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: SRSLY WHUT ;__; < 1289541775 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: get some sleep < 1289541808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: fuck you fix my bug < 1289541817 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If you can safely free(NULL) and realloc(NULL,x) safely in all cases, then it should make sense that malloc(0) should return NULL (although the Posix 2008 note above that says "either a null pointer or a unique pointer that can be successfully passed to free() shall be returned" is very sensible) < 1289541822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Tried valgrinding it yet?-) (Can' see any obvious problems there, except that (nargs+ellips || 1) is always 1.) < 1289541832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "(Can' see any obvious problems there, except that (nargs+ellips || 1) is always 1.)" < 1289541834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Gaah, of course. < 1289541846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Remember when I said "rewrite that"? Rewrite it so that it means max(nargs+ellips, 1) plz :P < 1289541854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a Perl ||. :p < 1289541870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I suppose I could do nargs+ellips ? nargs+ellips : 1, but, er, ew. < 1289541911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do ((nargs+ellips) | 1) if you don't mind that it's sometimes one larger than necessary. :p < 1289541923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If I didn't mind that, I'd do something called +1. < 1289541951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it's one larger always; at least my thing is that only half of the time. < 1289541958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I want this to be hypothetically accepted into pcc, and I imagine the BSD guys might be a bit CAGEY about wasting sizeof(usch *) bytes like that. < 1289542073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Factored it out into a conditional like the cool dudes. < 1289542209 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to make Frama-C to work without the special ACSL but instead by commands that can be inserted anywhere in the C code where a statement is expected: assume(), assert(), assume_portable(), assert_portable(), etc. < 1289542239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((nargs+ellips)|1)^(((nargs+ellips)&~1) && !((nargs+ellips)&1)) for maximum confusion. < 1289542254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I am so glad the if statement was invented. < 1289542257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO GLAD < 1289542305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: However, for your ASSISTANCE, you are now an official Kitten developer. Expect drudge work. < 1289542340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, it's really odd that you would actually *want* an allocation for a malloc(0)... < 1289542353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed. < 1289542356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Especially with the reasoning that you might want to pass the result to realloc... < 1289542362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realloc of NULL works just fine. < 1289542367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am so tempted to build dietlibc with malloc(0) == pointer turned on, though. < 1289542372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Just to give me less shit. < 1289542398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's *permitted* behavior, and apparently some crazy junk relies on it, so I say go for it. < 1289542398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Similarly, although I've disabled the GNU program invocation name crap that only util-linux and GNU software uses, I'm tempted not to...) < 1289542409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But then why use dietlibc :) < 1289542425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, go for it if it ends up actually being problematic. < 1289542439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, "HOLY FUCK I NEED TO PATCH EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM". < 1289542459 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If realloc of NULL works fine, then the Posix specification that malloc(0) should either return NULL or a pointer passable to free or realloc, works fine. (It says "a unique pointer that can be successfully passed to free()", but it ought to include realloc() as well, or else it isn't very good) < 1289542493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's pretty bizarre specing there. < 1289542497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * file support on kernel 2.2 or 2.0 */ < 1289542500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1289542503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* you need to define this if you want to run your programs with large < 1289542503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * file support on kernel 2.2 or 2.0 */ < 1289542507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dddisable < 1289542525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disable-tastic. < 1289542539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compile! < 1289542563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am shocked to the core that this shit actually works, and in fact all the patches I've made could be made into sane ones that condition on __PCC__ or something rather than just chainsawing up dietlibc. < 1289542575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the dietlibc patch is only 200 or so lines; the pcc patches are both tiny. < 1289542657 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What is bizarre? < 1289542662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: night, GENERA LOSER <-- ? < 1289542671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's pretty nice. < 1289542674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Yellow: "Polynomial!" <-- heh < 1289542703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You might want to clean up the patches a bit and send them upstream. < 1289542733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: night, GENERA LOSER <-- ? < 1289542735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten :P < 1289542749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm going to send them as-is; they're not *too* messy and I don't know how they'd want to do this stuff, so, leave it to the maintainer! < 1289542761 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1289542761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The pcc ones need no clean-up and are totally unobjectionable. < 1289542784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, except that the pcc-libs one mentions the name "dietlibc"; sure, it also mentions SunOS in that file, but perhaps mentioning GPL'd software is just TOO FAR for the BSD guys. < 1289542824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are you doing? < 1289542843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/kitten$ $K/stage2/bin/diet -Os $K/stage2/bin/pcc hello.c -o hello < 1289542843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execvp() failed! < 1289542848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoopsy. < 1289542851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I neglected to make install. < 1289542874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Building the Kitten toolchain. < 1289542879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dietlibc? kitten will use dietlibc? < 1289542885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have dietlibc built by pcc, and pcc built by pcc linked with dietlibc. < 1289542889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, probably. < 1289542903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh, what is wrong with, say, newlib or uclibc? < 1289542910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (It *is* legal to distribute the binaries, as long as I offer source; felix is mistaken about this.) < 1289542921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, felix? < 1289542928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the dietlibc developer < 1289542929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: newlib's Linux code is just... glibc's. Also it's primarily for standalone environments. < 1289542943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and uclibc? < 1289542955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uClibc is... well, let's put it this way: They use goddamn menuconfig. And if you don't compile your own gcc, your resulting programs segfault. < 1289542972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, uClibc doesn't build with pcc. dietlibc does, with some patches that I have written. < 1289542977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh? do they? I used it with my normal system compiler < 1289542980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not want to patch uClibc. I hear it is very gcc-specific. < 1289542982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(uclibc that is) < 1289542989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it was the issue I had. But whatever. < 1289542993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1289543007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, dietlibc tends to produce leaner executables, I think. Admittedly it is less strictly compatible with stuff. < 1289543019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have to see how much stuff breaks with it. I doubt X.Org will build with anything but gcc. < 1289543027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how feature complete is dietlibc wrt posix? < 1289543060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Quite; by default, it tells you off for using stdio and other functions (they bloat the binary), but I've disabled that. Some functions like system() are in a separate library because they suck. < 1289543066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (But that's just a link to fix.) < 1289543103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Vorpal: It works! http://sprunge.us/WYFe < 1289543117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What might be good is having a Frama-C that will create reports that can be included into a Enhanced CWEB program. (You first run tangle, and then analysis, and then weave, and you will get the reports included in a new chapter of the program.) < 1289543122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1289543124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1289543131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now I just need a cc(1) wrapper script that works like diet(1), except that it doesn't behave differently depending on where -Os is. < 1289543142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (diet's -Os switch appends a few extra arguments depending on your arch.0 < 1289543144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.) < 1289543158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, make that "bbl, several hours" < 1289543213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 elliott elliott 4.4K Nov 12 06:24 hello < 1289543213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 elliott elliott 6.5K Nov 12 06:26 hello2 < 1289543219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Second is gcc -Os, dynamically linked to glibc. < 1289543369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just had the most perverse idea. Compile plan9port with this. < 1289543383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((nargs+ellips)+!(nargs+ellips)) also occurs to me, but I think they're all messier than the conditional. < 1289543426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Please do. < 1289543463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How depressing: I just realised I'm spending all of this time and effort on Unix. Not even that, Linux. < 1289543469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll shoot myself when all's said and done. < 1289543502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's at least non-sucky Unix. < 1289543509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Linux. < 1289543517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Okay, except for the kernel. < 1289543526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dietlibc is Linux-only :P < 1289543533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baaah. < 1289543890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What does irritate me is that I'm going to have to wrap pcc. < 1289543905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't compilers support an easy way to compile them to automatically link to a static libc? *sniff* < 1289544136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: LETS FORK PCC < 1289545156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Haw, plan9port does not like diet pcc :P < 1289545264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.fefe.de/embutils/ almost coreutils < 1289545351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I poll you about my service manager's interface? Or should I shut up and code :p < 1289545529 0 :TLUL_!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1289545610 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1289545643 0 :TLUL_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1289546165 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Teh_Lawl < 1289546171 0 :Teh_Lawl!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL < 1289546191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BAH < 1289547191 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289547192 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1289547324 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of purple smoke* < 1289547455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is && a sequence point? < 1289547458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. is < 1289547461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*q++ && *q == foo < 1289547461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok? < 1289547463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*!= < 1289547554 0 :ttm_!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289547630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1289547703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unlike the bitwise binary & operator, the && operator guarantees left-to-right evaluation; there is a sequence point after the evaluation of the first operand. If the first operand compares equal to 0, the second operand is not evaluated." < 1289547750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1289548439 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can poker be combined with Magic: the Gathering in the following way: That whatever cards you have available to make up a poker hand are the cards you play with in your hand in Magic: the Gathering cards. < 1289548799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1289548800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1289548991 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have used things like (x+!x) in C codes, before (occasionally; not all the time). < 1289549089 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing (x|!x) should also produce the same answer (I think), also (x^!x), and if you are using GNU C, also (x?:1) < 1289549136 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x>>=!y; < 1289549354 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *reappears in a ball of invisible ink* < 1289549598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The slowness of qemu-system-x86_64 is profound. < 1289549715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am staring at one gnome panel while waiting for the other to start. < 1289549715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1289549775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOO THE BACKGROUND IS UP < 1289552062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://beesbuzz.biz/art/web/statistically_significant_2.php What an average Dinosaur Comic. < 1289555833 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should just start using ie6 for all my linux web browsing < 1289555838 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to be contrarian < 1289556658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, seriously, does anyone know of a faster x86-64 emulator than qemu? < 1289557233 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1289557260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BE MORE AWAKE < 1289557524 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289557810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: ed is the best editor < 1289557837 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what < 1289557842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1289558684 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1289558794 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1289562001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ping < 1289563430 0 :ais523!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289563497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1289563504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1289563516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to do a rm * in my home directory last night (thought I was in /tmp...) < 1289563522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, I lost hardly anything, maybe about 15 minutes of work < 1289563536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(an rm -r * would have been rather more destructive...) < 1289563617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the reason I was doing an rm * of /tmp is that I'd just tarbombed it) < 1289563631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good thing I forgot the -rf, which would have been needed...) < 1289563673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh dear... < 1289563698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's at times like this that I'm glad I'm using my crazy Emacs backup system, that's designed specifically to protect against accidental rm *s < 1289563706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it backs up all files I edit in a /different/ directory from the file itself) < 1289563732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, I do that too < 1289563738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and many, many others < 1289563743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but -- mostly to stop cluttering up directories. < 1289563754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, clutter in directories is what causes the rm * ~ typo in the first place < 1289563754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (in fact, i'd say that in the "emacs community", >50% do that) < 1289563765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, it should be the default, backing up to a dotfile somewhere < 1289563774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: emacs isn't exactly one for sane defaults < 1289563783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed (GNU-style indentation?) < 1289563786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've almost got a basic .emacs in muscle memory from reinstalling so many times < 1289563797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1289563809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tool-bar-mode -1) (menu-bar-mode -1) (setq inhibit-splash-screen t) (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil) < 1289563821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it turns out that the only actually important thing I lost in the rm * of my homedir, as far as I can tell, was the public key for accessing the wireless here < 1289563824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*search "amit patel backups emacs", copy snippet in* < 1289563826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada < 1289563836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably retrievable/regeneratable? < 1289563836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I managed to download that over JANET roaming < 1289563839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1289563855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, the issue is, I thought I couldn't connect to the Internet to download it without it < 1289563863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh, care to take bets on whether ubuntu 7.10 will recognise this fancy new ethernet card that supposedly older ubuntus didn't? < 1289563871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, it might handle my wifi but not ethernet. Wouldn't that be a thing. < 1289563878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And yes... I need 7.10. For Genera!) < 1289563881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.10? that's pretty old < 1289563892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: every newer version has a too recent X.Org < 1289563898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a result, I have no idea < 1289563907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which breaks the hideous monstrosity of a hack^W^W^W^W^WOpenGenera port to Linux < 1289563917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use an old X.Org as an application within Wayland! < 1289563920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (it actually replaces the Alpha assembly-generating routines with routines that generate *C*...) < 1289563931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey now, i support the move to wayland :P < 1289563937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? IT'S NOT X < 1289563950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't yet oppose it, but I don't have enough data to make up my mind < 1289563954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably prefer Windows Display Server, the Linux port than X. < 1289563965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also known as "1/3 of the Windows kernel, the Linux port".) < 1289563994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows keep replacing their display code, though < 1289563999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still remember GDI32.DLL < 1289564005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I still remember the 16-bit version < 1289564012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Microsoft have deprecated not only it, but most of its successors < 1289564020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a pity, as I actually liked GDI < 1289564023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: afraid i have to reboot to get debian to realise i have a usb stick now... < 1289564031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1289564036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (not sure why it didn't just work, but) < 1289564045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Global Defense Initiative. < 1289564062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm even using my Kitten work partition to install 7.10 on! What blasphemy. (In other Kitten news you don't care about, I got a bootstrapped pcc/dietlibc -- pcc built with pcc, linked with dietlibc -- working today.) < 1289564095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my benefit: < 1289564095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ZAWh < 1289564096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ZAWh < 1289564096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ZAWh < 1289564096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ZAWh < 1289564105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289564116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why would you paste that four times? to make it easier to see? < 1289564121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a mystery! < 1289564232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe one of us should paste the output of "banner 'hey elliott here is your paste'" on-channel to make it even more visible. < 1289564291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think elliott uses a proportional-width font for IRC (although I'm not sure), so it'd probably get munged < 1289564293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With -w 30 it's only 207 lines. < 1289564312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, though, he or she uses a fixed-width font for the logs < 1289564320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somehow assumed he'd be looking for it in the logs, which, ... right. < 1289564369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # # < 1289564369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # # < 1289564369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ### #### < 1289564369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## ####### < 1289564369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ## ###### # < 1289564370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ###### < 1289564372 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ######### < 1289564374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # ####### ## < 1289564376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ###### ## # < 1289564378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ### # < 1289564380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # # < 1289564382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X marks the spot, you see. < 1289564387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an X? < 1289564398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banner prints things sideways. < 1289564410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an X any direction I look at it < 1289564420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1289564420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has serifs and all. < 1289564428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: ping <-- pong < 1289564432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, serifs + proportional-width font is what's confusing me < 1289564469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's at times like this that I'm glad I'm using my crazy Emacs backup system, that's designed specifically to protect against accidental rm *s <-- I use rm -I < 1289564480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also shell function that wraps rm < 1289564485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that likely doesn't help, I did rm * deliberately but in the wrong directory < 1289564490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and examines the arguments for sanity < 1289564536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With -I you'd see the file names, though. Maybe seeing rm: remove regular file `important_stuff'? would help you notice sooner. < 1289564537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example it will do nothing if one of the files is a guard file in ~ < 1289564546 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just to avoid rm * in the wrong dir < 1289564561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if an argument is ~ or $HOME < 1289564578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-I doesn't show the filenames < 1289564579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid rm * ~ < 1289564580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1289564580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-i does, but not -I < 1289564596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed, but -i is annoying when you have multiple files < 1289564614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like the idea of a guard file which stops rm working; you could design it so you needed to use unlink instead, say < 1289564614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the shell wrapper protects against the most common stupid mistakes < 1289564642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, it just examines the arguments. I could bypass it by calling /bin/rm rather than just rm for example < 1289564642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like http://www.nilfs.org/en/ would make your file system also mistake-proof. < 1289564651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't had the occasion to try that out. < 1289564657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wanted to try it too < 1289564668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never got around to it < 1289564675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, isn't it in the kernel nowdays? < 1289564680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1289564683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanilla < 1289564703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think it is. < 1289564720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how good the performance is < 1289564723 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-90-113.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289564733 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1289564735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NILFS was merged into the Linux kernel 2.6.30. -- NILFS2 is available in Ubuntu 9.10 or later (karmic, lucid)." < 1289564756 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1289564793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that one year-old benchmark article. < 1289564814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm is nilfs2 not in vanilla? < 1289564820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming they are different < 1289564832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're the same thing in that context. < 1289564835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1289564856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just two different snippets of the page, one talking about where the tools and such are packaged, the other about the file system. < 1289564883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nilfs.org/en/current_status.html <-- fsck on todo list < 1289564884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1289564929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll stay with my mix of ext4 and jfs partitions for now. < 1289565126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't seem to find any recent benchmarks. I just like the idea of continuous-snapshotting. < 1289565271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our work /home share has /home/.snapshot/hourly.0 .. hourly.3, nightly.0 .. nightly.3 and weekly.0, weekly.1 which provide complete snapshots of everyone's ~ at the times you'd expect from the names. < 1289565337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly continuous snapshotting, but probably good enough to catch many mistaken deletions, unless you're unlucky enough to have both made and deleted the stuff within the same one-hour period. < 1289565739 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1289565819 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1289565823 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1289567333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hidden file in /home is an interesting way to violate the FHS < 1289567339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it technically be in /var? < 1289567448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, but I think due to technomagical reasons it needs to be in the same NFS share, which is mounted at /home. < 1289567471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well; our /home is a symlink to /m/fs/home anyway. < 1289567503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is even stranger is that /home/.directory is a symlink to /etc/kubuntu-default-settings/directory-home. < 1289567509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what that's about. < 1289567551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It contains: < 1289567552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Desktop Entry] < 1289567552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icon=user-home < 1289567559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess it's some sort of desktop environment magic. < 1289568102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1289568175 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1289568177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:28:49 I think I'll stay with my mix of ext4 and jfs partitions for now. < 1289568180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't you an xfs user? < 1289568187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joined the light side? :) < 1289568260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Genera update: qemu-system-x86_64 is slower than you can possibly imagine -- and yes, slower than that. Utterly unworkable; even booting was a five-minute operation and even starting an xterm in a Xephyr on the root machine was way too slow. < 1289568277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then tried doing it as a chroot, ended up changing my system hostname and starting nfs, and on top of that swap4 didn't work so fuck that. < 1289568287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now I'm going to install Ubuntu 7.10 literally onto another partition. < 1289568303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1289568426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289568839 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289569022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : weren't you an xfs user? <-- I use xfs on some partitions. Those with few, but huge, files. So for the partition with disk images basically < 1289571265 0 :digimunk!~David.Man@prague.dreamhost.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289571895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289572529 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1289572535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, the ethernet driver was added in karmic. *sigh* < 1289572557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are you *sure* Genera doesn't work with a more recent X? Anyway, wouldn't it be easier just to install Gutsy's X package onto Maverick? < 1289572723 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__████████___ ██ < 1289572724 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_█▓▓▓▓█░▓▓███▓█ < 1289572724 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__█▓▓▓█░░▓▓▓█▓█ < 1289572724 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :___█▓▓█░▓▓▓▓▓▓█ < 1289572724 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :____█▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓█ < 1289572724 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :___█▓▓▓▓▓__▓▓▓▓█ < 1289572726 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__█▓▓▓▓▓___▓▓▓▓█ < 1289572730 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_█▓▓▓▓▓_░__▓░__█ < 1289572732 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :█▓▓▓▓▓▓_█__▓█__█ < 1289572734 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :█████▓▓_░__▓░__█ < 1289572736 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :___█▓▓▓░░░░░░███ < 1289572738 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__█▓▓▓▓░░░░░░░█ < 1289572740 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_███████░░░░░█ < 1289572742 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :___██░░░█████ < 1289572744 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__█░░███░░░█ < 1289572745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1289572746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1289572746 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_█░█__█▓░░░██ < 1289572746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1289572746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1289572748 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_██____▓░░█__█ < 1289572750 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__█____▓▓██__█ < 1289572751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1289572751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1289572752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1289572752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1289572752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1289572752 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :___█__█▓██__█ < 1289572754 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :____███▓█▓██ < 1289572755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1289572756 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_______█▓█▓█ < 1289572760 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_______█▓█▓██ < 1289572762 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :______█___█__█ < 1289572764 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :______█▓▓▓█▓▓███ < 1289572767 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_____█____▓█▓▓_▓▓█ < 1289572768 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :____█▓▓▓▓_█▓▓_▓▓▓█ < 1289572770 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :____██████████████ < 1289572772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie < 1289572772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that... Sonic? < 1289572777 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1289572784 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the coolest hedgehog! < 1289572806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The illest hog. < 1289573041 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, oh: "I think I’m going to write a post about the fact that Sprint allocated around 4 million v4 addresses yesterday." --ipv4depletion < 1289573056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Looks like the bank run has begun! < 1289573076 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it begins in APNIC region... < 1289573141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm going to try this whole wazoo with 10.10 and an old X package. < 1289573170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could get double the resolution with U+2596..259F, but that'd lose the shading. < 1289573177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ▟▄▟▖ < 1289573177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :▟▙█▙█▖ < 1289573177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :▌▛▀▀▌▌ < 1289573177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ▝ ▝ < 1289573245 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh they're playing space invaders < 1289573269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit elongated with this font: it's not exactly a rectangular block. < 1289573282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, square, I mean. < 1289573306 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it ment to be? < 1289573334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pixels should be square-ish, yes, I think. I just copied them directly to the quadrant-blocks, which aren't. < 1289573352 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is implementing printf in c < 1289573386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a strange language to implement printf in. < 1289573399 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: true, but I'm wondering what else < 1289573411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: "what else"? < 1289573415 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To change the "endgame" with IANA allocations, ARIN (which will probably request&get 2 blocks soon), APNIC or RIPE would have to allocate so fast that they can get 2x2 blocks before IANA runs out... < 1289573420 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1289573428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: no, as in, please restate so i can understand that < 1289573441 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have myself a set of "asm, C, C++" < 1289573465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you ever touch c++ < 1289573466 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can pick any (combination) of those to write a printf function < 1289573471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: do printf in haskell! < 1289573473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and export it to C < 1289573476 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: templates. < 1289573484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: yes, that's a reason not to use C++ ever, correct < 1289573498 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like templates < 1289573513 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially when they can do the world some good compile-time instead of runtime) < 1289573536 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, severe run on the bank scenario on ARIN could force second set of allocations before IANA pool runs out, changing the endgame. < 1289573574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: c++ makes the amount of patience and energy you have left to do anything after compiling shoot itself < 1289573636 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: most of the time, the only thing I actually have to do after compiling is see if it still boots and else fix it < 1289573645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do templates do again? < 1289573667 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're like the C preprocessor < 1289573675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You know what a generic is? < 1289573686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in the CLOS? < 1289573686 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but much more C++-y (and they have recursion :)) < 1289573690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, in e.g. Java. < 1289573694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: List is a list of Ts. < 1289573710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick, ah, so they're trying to solve a problem Lisp solved 50 years ago. < 1289573724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You know what a typeclass is? Imagine a feature that makes doing what generics do (simple parameterised typed) a pain in the ass, and not letting you do any useful typeclass stuff, but *yes* letting you abuse it as the most tarpitty thing ever. < 1289573725 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/UF0Ci5F6 < 1289573747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also it's turing-complete and makes compile times go up faster than ... uh ... a really quickly-erected structure. < 1289573773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Than a self-assembling skyscraper? < 1289573823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose some people might call it that. < 1289573825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://pastebin.com/UF0Ci5F6 < 1289573848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as we can see by this, templates are a verbose, strangely-arbitrarily-limited functional language, masquerading as a simple generics system. < 1289573861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not laughing at this too much produces Boost < 1289573863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enough < 1289573933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is basically just a crippled, awful and inelegant version of Lisp's macros? < 1289573955 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crippled...meh < 1289573957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It can't transform code. So no. < 1289573962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yorick: Yes crippled (you can't do SKI calculus). < 1289574005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, its functionality is entirely a subset of macros, though? < 1289574012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm. < 1289574014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that question makes no sense < 1289574057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, does it do anything in C++ which Lisp can't do with macros? < 1289574072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Are you *sure* Genera doesn't work with a more recent X? Anyway, wouldn't it be easier just to install Gutsy's X package onto Maverick? <-- pretty sure. Could work with some in between the two I tried (that old ubuntu version I mentioned in the "guide" and the X version in the next ubuntu release after that) < 1289574079 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289574085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is obviously going to be no, since you can do _everything_ with macros, but anyway... < 1289574086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is it the server or the libs that is the issue? < 1289574143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unknown. I didn't investigate it further than noticing that googling indicated it was X related, and that fitted with the error message, which was some X message (forgot which) < 1289574425 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-125.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289574599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, xkcd is hiatusing. I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to be happy. < 1289574628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering there's a family illness and also nobody's forcing you to read xkcd, I think not. < 1289574670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was thinking that. < 1289574923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The xkcdsucks people are all going "THANK GOD NO XKCD", but as is well-established they are all (a) douchebags and (b) morons. < 1289575090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1289575685 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, (d) fluffy puppies. < 1289575944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(We don't know what (c) is yet) < 1289575966 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289576155 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289576238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to confusedly ask something along the lines of "Is the amount of infinite sets of rationals uncountably infinite somehow? Because if not, I don't see how reals defined in terms of Dedekind cuts are uncountably infinite" < 1289576266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, I _think_ the diagonalization thingy says that there is an uncountably infinite amount of those sets < 1289576270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is head-breaking < 1289576333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite sets of rationals? < 1289576370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the amount of infinite subsets of rational numbers is uncountable < 1289576403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems ... unintuitive, I guess < 1289576412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But intuition counts for nothing, really < 1289576419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's an uncountable number of subsets of integers < 1289576461 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at all numbers of the form 0\.[0-1]+ < 1289576473 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose they're countable, so line them up < 1289576475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just do diagonalization right away, it's easier than for reals < 1289576507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact in general, it's easy to show that for any set S, there is no surjection S -> 2^S < 1289576512 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you can define a new number, which flips 0 to 1 and 1 to 0 on the nth digit of the nth number. < 1289576533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in fact in general, it's easy to show that for any set S, there is no surjection S -> 2^S < 1289576536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either i'm tired or wrong way around < 1289576558 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're tired < 1289576561 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to say which one < 1289576572 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1289576579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i misunderstood you < 1289576581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're tired < 1289576587 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surjection means the function values are the whole of the codomain < 1289576600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh right my brain ignored "surjection" < 1289576605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda important part of the sentence < 1289576608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289576618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's a function the other way around too < 1289576622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to my flawed understanding of Wikipedia, the left can be larger than the right in a surjection < 1289576625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what i saw: "set S is no S -> 2^S" < 1289576633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: now you're fucking with me < 1289576635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i just don't understand you < 1289576638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i'm *really* tired < 1289576655 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes. but can't be of smaller cardinality. < 1289576668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can take a function that takes everything to s \in S, for some element s in S < 1289576679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you don't know what a function is? < 1289576691 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, a function f : A → B is surjective iff forall x:B, exists y:A, f y = x. < 1289576704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, the left can be larger. < 1289576710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function from X to Y is a subset Z of XxY such that for each x \in X there is exactly one y \in Y such that (x, y) \in Z < 1289576718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i know what a function is :p < 1289576725 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay < 1289576729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but yes, yes < 1289576731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i misread you < 1289576732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because tired < 1289576736 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surjection is >=, injection is =<. < 1289576745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does anyone remember all the jections? < 1289576753 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :study maths < 1289576759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, surjection is what I just said. < 1289576760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sur" is french for "on" < 1289576763 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only surjection, injection, bijection. < 1289576764 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all. < 1289576768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1289576771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in english, onto is a synonym for surjection < 1289576775 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you call surjections "functions onto" < 1289576780 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1289576793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Injection is basically the same as surjection except the other way around. < 1289576803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :injections are also called one-to-one < 1289576806 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not. < 1289576809 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no < 1289576816 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're confused. < 1289576818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :injection = at most one preimage < 1289576819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes, I just realised that. < 1289576823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surjection = at least one preimage < 1289576825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I know the actual definition. < 1289576835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(per point) < 1289576836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was oversimplifying to the point of incorrectness. < 1289576841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1289576842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it bijection that's 1 to 1? < 1289576850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's a confusing name, yes < 1289576863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bijections are often called "one-to-one correspondence" < 1289576868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289576877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what was " injections are also called one-to-one" about? < 1289576877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for some reason one-to-one just means injection < 1289576884 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :injections are 1-1 < 1289576884 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Injection is forall x y:A, x!=y->f x!=f y, yes? < 1289576891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: yes < 1289576892 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1289576895 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phanqpqokiepok < 1289576919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If something is both a surjection and an injection, is it a bijection? < 1289576924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the def < 1289576937 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sur = at least one preimage, inj = at most one, bij = one < 1289576938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yep. < 1289576990 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now once you get to the definition of the continuous function < 1289576993 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gets confusing < 1289576996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be called heterojections, homojections and bijections really < 1289576998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be easier to remember < 1289577011 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically during undergrad you learn 2 new definitions of continuous functions per year < 1289577015 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one per term or so < 1289577021 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuous functions have 1 definition < 1289577049 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The topological one? < 1289577051 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell that to kuratowski < 1289577063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are there besides the topological one? < 1289577072 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um helloo < 1289577075 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm just not aware of others < 1289577077 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cauchy? < 1289577088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there are multiple characterizations, yes < 1289577091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; I know the one for functions and derivatives and stuff is the same. < 1289577124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what cauchy is tho, do you mean limit's image is images' limit < 1289577128 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epsilon-delta, sequence-based, topology, algebraic (element of ...), category theory < 1289577143 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cauchy is epsilon delta < 1289577159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't know what the category theory definition is < 1289577168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epsilon delta is topological continuity < 1289577170 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me either < 1289577172 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are more too < 1289577174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1289577196 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the first few i came up with < 1289577208 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it's the characterization that uses the base of the topology instead of arbitrary open sets < 1289577220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does OpenCourseWare have good math stuff? < 1289577229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the algebraic definition? what's the category theoretical one? < 1289577261 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the algebraic definition says that a function is continuous if it's an element of ContinuousFunctions < 1289577270 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CT one, i don't care. < 1289577302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1289577311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, that's a different definition :D < 1289577329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a function is continuous if we call it continuous" < 1289577339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that math _wouldn't_ be a good universal language for talking to aliens < 1289577349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd almost certainly use different axioms than we do < 1289577353 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funkcja_ci%C4%85g%C5%82a#Przestrze.C5.84_funkcji_ci.C4.85g.C5.82ych < 1289577355 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl, Firefox mobile beta requires 32MB internal storage :P < 1289577379 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can for example define L_n(X, Y) and just go from there to define C(X, Y) < 1289577385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, actually the sequence definition is only equivalent in metric spaces < 1289577390 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289577398 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's another definition which talks about that sup f(x) = f(sup x) or something like that < 1289577410 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup f(X) = f(sup X) < 1289577423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are characterizations, they aren't "different definitions" < 1289577426 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this you just need an order and that's it < 1289577438 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are different definitions which can be shown to be equivalent < 1289577441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah f(closure of G) \subset closure of f(G) < 1289577461 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :historically they were not known to be equivalent < 1289577642 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1289577744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, let S be a set, and consider a surjection f: S -> 2^S, take the set T = {s \in S | s \not\in f(s) }, and let f(t) = T for some t, then t \in T => t \not\in f(t) = T; and t \not\in T => t \in T, so in fact there can't be such an f < 1289577756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit confusing linearized like that < 1289577862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it's just i prefer to say "different characterizations" once we know they're the same thing, because when new mathematics happens, there will be multiple actually different definitions for the same intuitive concept, until a consistent naming scheme appears (if it ever does) < 1289577890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, maybe it should've been clear what you meant < 1289577919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just it could be that that topological definition was different from the one for metric spaces, or the epsilon delta one, but because it's not, you really don't have to remember but one definition. < 1289577964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, in theory :P < 1289578015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, toroidal lightspeed bubbles. < 1289578019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADMIT THE AWESOME < 1289578034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what about f : 2^S -> S be an injection < 1289578063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't say i see it. < 1289578076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: k < 1289578138 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1289578192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1289578197 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fucking retarded xD < 1289578199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fucking retarded xD < 1289578199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fucking retarded xD < 1289578199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fucking retarded xD < 1289578200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fucking retarded xD < 1289578200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fucking retarded xD < 1289578217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kebab time -> < 1289578247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually Phantom_Hoover's "injection is a reversed surjection" is the answer < 1289578301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FWIW, the spherical geometry did exactly what oerjan predicted. < 1289578327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: did they listen? < 1289578335 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, they did not. < 1289578336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did oerjan predict? And is this spherical geometry of a CA? < 1289578341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And who is "they"? < 1289578342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway how can anyone think continuity is confusing, when there's the roughly as important concept of compactness lying around < 1289578345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what did they say < 1289578351 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that you can't make a planar CA spherical. < 1289578356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they didn't respond. < 1289578366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DKS REPLIED! < 1289578373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A complete 3620 system weighs about 200 lbs when packed for shipping." < 1289578374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha < 1289578376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't make a planar CA spherical? < 1289578389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what sense? < 1289578405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psht, he's trying to sell me the more expensive and Symbolics-keyboard-lacking MacIvory. < 1289578465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't really care a shit anyway < 1289578471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, in the sense that you need to have a point at which the symmetry breaks down. < 1289578471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1289578477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1289578480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1289578500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not smart enough for an explanation that vague < 1289578512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when are two CA's equivalent? < 1289578516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conjucagy? < 1289578637 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conjugacy is when you take a homeomorphism between the spaces that commutes with the CA functions on both sides < 1289578649 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.236.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289578653 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :highly intuitive definition of sameness don't you think < 1289578656 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1289578663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now why am I so terrible at talking to salesmen? < 1289578678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you always end up buying them < 1289578695 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm right the leaving -> < 1289578910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1289578912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, when you get back: if you have Life on a sphere, gliders crash at some points; the whole space isn't isotropic. < 1289578957 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know what homeomorphism is, though < 1289579038 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a morphism that likes other morphisms. < 1289579064 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, they're different definitions, because their application doesn't overlap < 1289579074 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topological definition doesn't work on ALL ordered sets < 1289579085 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ordered sets definition doesn't work in ALL topological spaces < 1289579095 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are sets on which those definitions are equivalent < 1289579112 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that intersection is of measure zero < 1289579834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: oh cool, what's the ordered set definition < 1289579852 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i told you already < 1289579853 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1289579855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they are different definitions by any definition of definition if they're not equivalent < 1289579872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm that always works with the order topology, doesn't it? < 1289579879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't, okay, you win < 1289579883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100-0 < 1289579912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1289579934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sup, not inf? then i'd guess it's continuity w.r.t. half interval topology < 1289579940 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks away from oklopol and toots < 1289579947 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1289579986 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look oklopol < 1289580000 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone's got their talents < 1289580002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there seriously is a concept of continuity that isn't subsumed by the topological one (and isn't a ridiculous definition like your algebraic one), then my life will change completely. < 1289580003 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1289580020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the worse < 1289580036 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to find something you're good at, y'know? < 1289580037 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1289580116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the sup f(X) = f(sup X) def exactly, do we assume sups always exist, do we assume a chain? < 1289580146 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i did < 1289580148 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i went to wikipedia < 1289580151 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had all the answers < 1289580157 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's full of stars. < 1289580175 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know, then maybe you'll be able to answer < 1289580193 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we assume sup's always exist. < 1289580208 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by saying that we have a total order. < 1289580219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't guarantee it < 1289580222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1289580336 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sez who < 1289580355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you serious < 1289580363 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you heard of Q < 1289580464 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1289580469 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X has to be a directed set < 1289580476 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a style of static analysis for C programs which is suitable for literate programming? < 1289580482 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1289580487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't directed just mean the sup of two elements exists? < 1289580523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q has that property, < 1289580538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-, < 1289580590 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well seems it just requires *an* upper bound, in any case this is trivially true if you have total order < 1289580748 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o rite < 1289580755 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mistransratet < 1289580763 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want a complete partial order < 1289580768 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there u go < 1289580778 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that works < 1289580787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you had the wrong definition for total order < 1289580789 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a supremum is not "an" upper bound < 1289580794 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the minimal upper bound < 1289580802 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i just used the wrong words < 1289580803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but apparently directed sets don't need there to be a minimal one < 1289580809 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what i meant < 1289580820 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like i care about this conversation >_> < 1289580825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had the wrong definition = you associated the word total order to something other than what it usually means < 1289580833 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j/k < 1289580835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah fuck you too < 1289580835 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i care. < 1289580839 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1289580846 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE U!! < 1289580861 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs out of the room crying and slamming the door! < 1289580895 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was j/k but u were like, totally unfriendly, man. < 1289580946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sneezes on chat < 1289581037 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: You misinterpreted him. < 1289581042 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: He was propositioning you. < 1289581045 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Not trying to insult you. < 1289581064 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... that puts a different twist on the whole conversation. < 1289581125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was insulting cheater99? < 1289581133 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, that was not the intention :D < 1289581148 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did he do to get me to insult him? < 1289581176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm maybe the wrong definition thing < 1289581468 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is if it can create the reports in a Enhanced CWEB include file (written with TeX codes) and then can be included into your program as an additional chapter (using the @i command). < 1289581798 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" i was j/k but u were like, totally unfriendly, man." i don't think i was < 1289581872 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u wuz. < 1289581909 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sorry again then; does it say on wp that the order thing is a different definition? < 1289581918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a very hard thing to prove < 1289581935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that there is no topology in which the continuous functions are the order-continuous functions < 1289581968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't find it < 1289582029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that i looked very hard) < 1289582228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/culturelab/2010/11/its-life---only-much-much-bigger.html < 1289582229 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1289582233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch it < 1289582257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From 0:57-1:10 < 1289582270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I the only one who sees something blatently impossible happening? < 1289582332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1289582347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A block disintegrates for no reason < 1289582397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yeah. < 1289582402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glitch? < 1289582475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even say on the vid that occasionally the sensor reads a ghost's presence < 1289582526 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, good point < 1289582529 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind then < 1289582541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they said "random mutation" < 1289582551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE SGEO_ DIE < 1289582553 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289582588 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1289582627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on, Freenode doesn't show quit messages? < 1289582662 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you need to be identified < 1289582677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net has just authenticated as you (SgeoBot) < 1289582682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1289582880 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1289583006 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289583372 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1289583615 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1289583628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: now watch as I perform the impossible! < 1289583633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X versions be damned. < 1289583656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1289583671 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1289583685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I am doing it from Ubuntu Netbook Edition (installed with alternative CD), because I defy logic < 1289583796 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289584191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when does Fine Structure get a coherent interchapter narrative? < 1289584200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Soon enough. Bear with it; it's well worth it. < 1289584202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at "The Astronomer's Loss". < 1289584224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Believe me that the reason it is not connected at first is not due to his incompetence. < 1289584244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't saying it was; just that it's a bit hard on the brain. < 1289584259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, it muddled me a bit too. But then it all starts making sense. :P < 1289584296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the opening of Banks' novels times 10. < 1289584318 0 :Naamah1!~baal.zebe@pc-31.yurt4.yurtlar.metu.edu.tr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289584432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naamah1, welcome to the legion on a dam! < 1289584451 0 :Naamah1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, thanks for the welcome! < 1289584498 0 :Naamah1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be a silly question, but how can I change my username? : ) < 1289584507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pingpingping, what is an acceptable date and time format? < 1289584511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naamah1: /nick foo < 1289584529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for what? < 1289584535 0 :Naamah1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Adramelech < 1289584537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Genera. < 1289584551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That is, the Symbolics Lisp Operating System. < 1289584562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is currently asking me for a date and time. < 1289584577 0 :Adramelech!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Baal_Zebel < 1289584584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best date and time format is objectively YYYY:MM:DD HH:MM:SS < 1289584594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait! < 1289584604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YY:YY:MM:DD:HH:MM:SS! < 1289584618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to reboot into non-netbook, this is too irritating. < 1289584625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289584664 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1289584680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to write something TeXy called LoX. < 1289584721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's irritating about it? < 1289584726 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was considering installing it today < 1289584759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The dock at the side likes to move the icons around when you click an icon in any way that's even slightly like a drag. For some reason the icons tilt when the dock fills up in a way that I cannot figure out what it is. < 1289584774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Additionally, the bar on the left is so large that screen real estate feels *significantly* reduced. < 1289584787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, it is difficult to, say, bring a file system browser on /. There is no facility to do this. < 1289584793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to open a USB stick, say, and go from there. < 1289584801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT WHAT? < 1289584802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, alt-f2? < 1289584805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes... no sense < 1289584807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, maybe. < 1289584811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The built-in browser looks at ~ only. < 1289584814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(~ = home) < 1289584830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-l? < 1289584831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-L doesn't bring up anything useful in the browser? < 1289584839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I doubt it. I didn't try. < 1289584844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very minimal. < 1289584905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you find you need more direct access to your file system, click the folder icon to open that folder in Nautilus." < 1289584907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders < 1289584913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still wants to try it < 1289584918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That worked in *old* Netbook Edition. < 1289584921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is fine. < 1289584925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It manifestly doesn't in 10.10. < 1289584958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unetbootin should be fine, right? < 1289584964 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't exactly have a CD burner < 1289585044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, seems < 1289585048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1289585061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:03 Nov 12, 2010 < 1289585065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should do the job. < 1289585067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i couldn't prove it so checked on wp, the sup definition is subsumed by the topological one according to the article < 1289585100 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so guess i can continue living my life for now < 1289585277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Eurgh. < 1289585280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Have you ever had this time issue> < 1289585284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*issue? < 1289585288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT I need to enable it in inetd don't I < 1289585371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also maybe the reason i couldn't prove it was it's not the [a, b) topology :D < 1289585373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21min to download the .iso? < 1289585378 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Topic revoked by the Spirit of OER-JAN. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1289585395 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's incredibly fast < 1289585405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you have a strange definition of fast ... < 1289585411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a sad Internet connection < 1289585438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders if it's the ISP or the router or the fact that I'm using the wifi < 1289585445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of wired < 1289585597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION o.Os at xPUD < 1289585625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is tempted to try it < 1289585660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1289585687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that I, for one, don't just restrict myself to web browsing < 1289585748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Chrome: I DID NOT MEAN TO CLICK CANCEL < 1289585768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289585817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Have you ever had this time issue> <--- ? < 1289585822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289585846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OH WAIT I need to enable it in inetd don't I <-- well that is why it was mentioned in the guide iirc? < 1289585901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: actually no < 1289585905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you install xinetd and never mention it again < 1289585917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hum, You need to enable daytime and such < 1289585920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did < 1289585924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daytime, time, echo (why not) < 1289585945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok, I don't get an XIO error; now I get the big ol' Genera window coming up, but solid white; it POSTs ok, says the log. It traps my keyboard and mouse and all I can do is kill -9 it (kill doesn't work) from a console. < 1289585966 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289585985 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unebootin bootloader is being very broken < 1289585997 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh < 1289586002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never ran into that < 1289586005 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It counts down the automatic boot... then goes back up to 10 < 1289586010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: still, no trace of XIO or anything < 1289586026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, XIO was in the terminal you ran it from iirc < 1289586030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yep < 1289586033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I checked < 1289586033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, are you using new X? < 1289586041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, that's sort of the point < 1289586052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then: no clue, you are on your own. Tell me if you manage though < 1289586054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The XIO error *definitely* no longer happens. Instead, we get an exciting new problem. < 1289586069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: HOW-EVER. It *did* manage to bug me for a date and time when I didn't have xinetd. < 1289586077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This then dropped me into a debugger and I could evaluate Lisp expressions. < 1289586081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was with the fonts and everything. < 1289586084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it *is* basically working. < 1289586086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1289586100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well tell me when you get it actually working < 1289586110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i expect pay-quality support < 1289586127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1289586141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (in return you can have remote access to my 3620 when i get it) < 1289586150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (even if DKS is trying to make me buy a macivory instead) < 1289586167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fucking thing doesn't even come with a symbolics keyboard < 1289586167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news I implemented a way to prevent my mine carts from running away when I'm exiting them at the stations. < 1289586196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I have no idea what the issue is... < 1289586317 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear computer: Acknowledge my USB Drive! < 1289586347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well then. Time to transplant Gutsy packages onto Maverick! < 1289586374 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this USB drive is broken. Drive feels like the wrong word < 1289586461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's so great about the Symbolics keyboards? < 1289586488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.asl.dsl.pipex.com/symbolics/photos/IO/index.html < 1289586497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hyper Super Meta Shift Control. < 1289586506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had loads of modifiers? < 1289586519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It was and is THE keyboard. < 1289586560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OK, more specifically, what about it is superior to the common or garden European keyboard? < 1289586578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Would you plug a USB keyboard into a Commodore 64? A ZX Spectrum? < 1289586599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Would you, say, plug, into an Amiga from the glory days, into a 30" LCD? < 1289586599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's nostalgia value or what? < 1289586607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's *awesome*. < 1289586629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're being like Sgeo, but with keyboards rather than virtual worlds. < 1289586651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, you just don't realise how awesome Lisp Machines were. < 1289586672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Even Stanislav, who was trying to get the console hooked up to an LCD and USB mouse (non-trivial), was adamant about keeping the keyboard. < 1289586681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing was a legend. < 1289586715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a stupid keyboard < 1289586715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have actually heard *reasons* for the Lisp machines being awesome. < 1289586733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah unlike you elliott, you stupid noob < 1289586734 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, they taste like butterflies. < 1289586757 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well, it's nice, but it's hardly a vital feature. < 1289586808 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unetbootin is simply not installing xPUD for some reason < 1289586965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hates you. < 1289586994 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it loves me. It's trying to protect me from xPUD < 1289587060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289587077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[Your password file needs to use "unix crypt" style passwords instead of the now-common md5 passwords. On Ubuntu with the default installation I use, this is configured in the file /etc/pam.d/common-password by commenting out the string "md5": < 1289587081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ grep md5 /etc/pam.d/common-password password required pam_unix.so nullok obscure min=4 max=8 # md5]] < 1289587083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That wasn't in your guide :p < 1289587117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. The world images that are included in the snap3 and 4 releases won't boot if the system date is after ~2000! y2k thing?? < 1289587154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# the default is Unix crypt. Prior releases used the option "md5". < 1289587156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1289587163 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is something utterly demented about its defaults for the trackpad < 1289587183 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1289587213 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Facebook app fullscreen on me? How do I get back to the menu? < 1289587233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#xpud < 1289587236 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trapped in Facebook < 1289587291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.cliki.net/Linux%20VLM%20workarounds genera without root < 1289587325 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I officially loathe xPUD < 1289587368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that we know TUN is avaible, grant full local access to the TUN device: < 1289587372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo iptables -A INPUT -i tun+ -j ACCEPT < 1289587412 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925108739.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1289587574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tx ip: 10.0.0.2 10.0.0.1 < 1289587576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rx ip: 10.0.0.1 10.0.0.2 < 1289587578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over and over < 1289587580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1289587671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1 is stuck in Facebook. < 1289587680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1289587724 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xPUD had a list of web apps. I clicked Facebook. It went fullscreen, with no way to get out. I bothered to log in, and it didn't work < 1289587753 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly wonders if xPUD is an elaborate phishing scheme < 1289587812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised. < 1289587815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell is it? < 1289587839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a stupid linux-based os built around firefox. < 1289587849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why... why would anyone do that? < 1289587854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why would SgeoN1 install it? < 1289587855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bcuz cloud 2.0 web < 1289587858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bcuz sgeo < 1289587895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'd guessed that was why Sgeo did it. < 1289587913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"why sgeo x?" "bcuz sgeo" < 1289587976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am so close to this: http://collison.ie/img/genera.png < 1289587981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, the genera bit. < 1289588042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still boggles me that after well over a decade of effort, noöne has resurrected the Lisp Machines. < 1289588073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because nobody wants lisp machines apart from the people who had lisp machines, and Symbolics, in their arrogance, destroyed the market and then, well, what can you do? < 1289588077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then everyone who used them moved on. < 1289588092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want Lisp machines! < 1289588098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: to Unix. And hated it. In fact the UNIX-HATERS list was founded a few days after a Lisp Machine user was forced to switch to a Sun box. < 1289588114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You know what Unixes like SunOS were like in the 80s? < 1289588118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit, that's what. < 1289588121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genera to that. AWESOME < 1289588128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine. < 1289588192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conservapedia.com/ConservaMath_Medal < 1289588201 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything like switching from a MOO to a MUSH? < 1289588213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just seeing that title: read more Hughes to cleanse your brain. Ommmm. < 1289588228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cos the Fields Medal is Liberal lies! < 1289588241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ben Green apparently earned this award four years ago when it was given for an achievement he helped obtain, but giving the Fields Medal to him now might dim the star of Obama-supporter Terence Tao, making Tao less effective politically. < 1289588243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289588245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm up to the Man Who Can Pass Through Things. < 1289588265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wow, what a chapter naming opportunity Sam missed there. < 1289588270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MAN WHO CAN PASS THROUGH THINGS < 1289588284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Indistinguishable from magic", right? < 1289588308 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1289588373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seth Gold was an ordinary basement dweller, until he was torn about by ActiveWorlds' destruction, when he became.... THE MAN WHO CAN PASS THROUGH THINGS < 1289588384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE CAN PASS THROUGH < 1289588387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PURE < 1289588389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOSTALGIA < 1289588395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THRILL as he falls through his chair! < 1289588405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRY as he is unable to type! < 1289588429 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHEER as he passes through the basement ceiling! < 1289588521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to ditch this laptop for a real computer. < 1289588673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Tell me. Why are AMD processors terrible? < 1289588830 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad was uneasy about buying this laptop because of AMD < 1289588865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: I will never say a bad word about you ever again if you stop listening to every damn thing your dad says even when he clearly has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. Or hell, I'll compromise, just don't mention it. < 1289588984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: NOW WATCH ME FLAIL AS I TRY AND FIND AN AMD PROCESSOR THAT (1) HAS DECENT PERFORMANCE AND (2) HAS LOW ENOUGH THERMAL SPECS THAT I CAN GET IT IN A FANLESS SYSTEM < 1289589036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dad says you shouldn't move the mouse when the computer is starting because... well i don't really know why but you shouldn't. < 1289589044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was a programmer for like 15 years < 1289589047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wise words, wise words < 1289589057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it could disturb the magnetics < 1289589060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289589082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or when pretty much anything is happening, like you're installing something, you can't touch the computer < 1289589087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the installation might fuck up < 1289589107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well if it's processing your mouse movements and rendering to the screen it can't write to the disk at the same time < 1289589116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might miss out bits, with obvious consequences < 1289589121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289589124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1289589153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know why AMD processors suck. < 1289589178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's because they didn't sell their souls to the devil so he would suck the heat out of the processors. < 1289589197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They're a lot hotter and a lot more power consuming than *faster* Intel processors. < 1289589269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that does suggest that Satan is being used as Intel's cooling system. < 1289589334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1289589391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or when pretty much anything is happening, like you're installing something, you can't touch the computer <-- that makes no sense < 1289589413 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1289589431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, moving the mouse around should be harmless < 1289589444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?? i'll tell him as soon as i can < 1289589453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on sane systems < 1289589471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, on classic mac os, if you downloaded something then moving your mouse would slow down the download < 1289589484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was on a performa < 1289589488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 28 kbit modem < 1289589520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that hardly applies to a modern computer < 1289589529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Fine Structure blind guess: are Anne Poole and the Man Who Can Pass Through Things both due to superposition of stuff? < 1289589628 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289589675 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it surprises me greatly that conservapedia has an article on infinity, i was pretty sure they were all finitists < 1289589680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that the Man Who Can Pass Through Things can See Through Things as well. < 1289589693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*strongly suggests hyperspacy stuff. < 1289589704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/0 NO! This isn't allowed! Infinity is not a number, and division by zero is illegal! < 1289589726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is in non-standard analysis. < 1289589755 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a number if you call it a number, by the mathemtical definition of being something < 1289589776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: elliott, Fine Structure blind guess: are Anne Poole and the Man Who Can Pass Through Things both due to superposition of stuff? < 1289589780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of. < 1289589784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But you should pay more attention to names. < 1289589813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hint: Crushed Underground. < 1289589813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity is a number on the extended real line, i'm not sure nonstandard analysis really has a number called infinity, although the hyperreals have many numbers that are bigger than any real < 1289589823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just click it, and look for a name. < 1289589824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Man Who Can Pass Through Things" is far too cool a name to bother correcting. < 1289589846 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Man Who Can Pass Gas Through Things < 1289589855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it surprises me greatly that conservapedia has an article on infinity, i was pretty sure they were all finitists < 1289589859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god is infinity duh < 1289589866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1289589891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In measure theory, one sometimes defines the "extended reals", allowing plus and minus infinity to be considered to be numbers, but this is a special construction, which makes certain arithmetical operations impossible. It can't be done in general" < 1289589895 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it can't be done in general" < 1289589897 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289589920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: elliott, Fine Structure blind guess: are Anne Poole and the Man Who Can Pass Through Things both due to superposition of stuff? <-- the latter seems a rather awkward name if you have to use it more than once or twice on a single page :P < 1289589924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may be funnier than finitism < 1289589933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(book page size block if not in such a format) < 1289589934 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conservapedia.com/Special:Random <-- how to kill yourself < 1289589955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1 being the Man Who Can See Through Things as well would be too icky to consider. < 1289589957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: finitism is boring cuz they usually accept the naturals imo < 1289589973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ultrafinitism is great because you can basically deduce that there's only one of anything, if you apply ultrafinitism to ultrafinitism < 1289589997 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Conservative Bible Project is a project utilizing the "best of the public" to render God's word into modern English without liberal translation distortions." HOW WAS I UNAWARE OF THIS X-D < 1289590008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Old :P < 1289590014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, very old < 1289590016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They get rid of comrade because it's communist < 1289590017 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't claim it wasn't. < 1289590017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was on Colbert, too. < 1289590024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm wtf < 1289590030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they believe in diagonalization too < 1289590040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but not relativity < 1289590044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? :D < 1289590048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, they link it to moral relativity < 1289590057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: seriously < 1289590060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.conservapedia.com/Counterexamples_to_Relativity < 1289590063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they said that Jesus telling his disciples to cast their nets to the right of the boat is an endorsement of conservatism. < 1289590076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: [[# In Genesis 1:6-8, we are told that one of God's first creations was a firmament in the heavens. This likely refers to the creation of the luminiferous aether.]] < 1289590082 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, those counterexamples include Jesus doing action at a distance. < 1289590085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's gotta be a troll :) < 1289590090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289590091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1289590097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "Liberal pseudoscience: Black holes • Dark matter • Moral relativism • Wormholes" < 1289590124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the writers of the New Testament were clearly carefully checking to see if Jesus' miracles obeyed causality. < 1289590141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: of course, god is very careful < 1289590143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luminiferous æther. Seriously. That's astoundingly retarded. < 1289590152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's 101% certain a troll, that one. < 1289590160 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks. < 1289590185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why isn't there a six-core processor with a TDP of around 100W, I ask you. < 1289590186 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear CMOS: Please try to retain settings that I set. < 1289590186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklopol: ultrafinitism is great because you can basically deduce that there's only one of anything, if you apply ultrafinitism to ultrafinitism <-- hm.... so lets see... that means there are only one "thing". That must be the universe. Which must be an atomic entity (in the sense "can't be divided"). Since if we could divide it, there would be multiple things. < 1289590189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whyyy < 1289590191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x86-64 :P) < 1289590195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is only* < 1289590204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You must be SO HIGH right now. < 1289590214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Duude... what if the universe is only one thing and it can't be divided..." < 1289590215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"7.The universe shortly after its creation, when quantum effects dominated and contradicted Relativity. " < 1289590215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ;P < 1289590216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289590234 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10] < 1289590235 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I didn't sleep well last night < 1289590236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah the quantums became conscious and talked back whenever relativity told them to do shit < 1289590239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably explains it < 1289590245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I *didn't* sleep last night. < 1289590252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 24.5 hours I've been awake now. < 1289590256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we should forbid the mentioning of quantum and relativistic mechanics to people too stupid to comprehend them. < 1289590268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've gone past the "falling asleep in my chair" stage to the "lucid once more" stage. < 1289590271 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think that's how high my CMOS is, which just decided that my USB drive is an fdd < 1289590271 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should try < 1289590277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying something retarded on there < 1289590282 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adding "because god" < 1289590290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: like "god made the universe in 7 actual days" < 1289590292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1289590294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody could believe that < 1289590300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway it can obviously only have one property, which would be it's existence. Which means it that is all we can describe it by. < 1289590314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, man, the property would be another thing. < 1289590317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Its only property is ITSELF. < 1289590318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right < 1289590319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: WHOA. < 1289590324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D < 1289590334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Some people actually believe that God made the universe in 7 actual days. < 1289590342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That was sort of entirely what my joke was based on. < 1289590355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The same morons can often be found believing that the King James Bible is the only valid Bible. < 1289590373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you haven't seen Schlafly trying to justify the fudge to Newtonian gravity. < 1289590382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: JUSTIFY FUDGE TO ME < 1289590393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The Christian Bible needs a fucking name, I'm sick of it being called "The Bible". < 1289590401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Torah. Qur'an. ??? < 1289590412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1289590416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what fudge? < 1289590416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Tanakh < 1289590419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there isn't an article about perfect spaces < 1289590427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: THE fudge. The single object that exists. < 1289590430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The fudge's property is the fudge. < 1289590434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can't name it < 1289590435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could add one saying only god can create perfect spaces < 1289590436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fudge is made out of a single the fudge. < 1289590439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the name is another thing < 1289590439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It IS its name. < 1289590442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1289590448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The whole universe, when taken together, is the name "the fudge". < 1289590451 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. Unetbootin isn't working like it should < 1289590464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but that consists of separate letters < 1289590464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because man is not perfect < 1289590467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, brb phone < 1289590480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man will always leave a couple points in every neighborhood < 1289590500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no it's all joined together < 1289590503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and fractal < 1289590511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :D < 1289590525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Biblia sacra. < 1289590531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the fudge is replacing r^2 with r^2.anindecentnumberof0s1 in the gravity formula. < 1289590551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lawl < 1289590559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, I might have found an acceptable AMD processor. < 1289590564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1289590578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Phenom II X4 925. 2.8 GHz quad core, 4x512KB L2, 6MB L3, and 95W TDP. < 1289590590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, that's still too high... but it's certainly decent. < 1289590596 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Schlafly doesn't seem to have realised that that value would imply that space was curved *anyway*. < 1289590622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Disadvantage: It's $129.99, which is not far away from the $179.99 prices of X6 monstrosities with the newer core architectures. < 1289590672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you actually need your megaprocessor for? < 1289590683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Umm, I actually just want... a processor. < 1289590687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Four cores isn't much to ask for these days. < 1289590697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: See, I want a decent computer. So I want to assemble one. < 1289590700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I want components. < 1289590703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, get two. < 1289590707 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YEAH "Christians qualify this statement further by stating that God is infinite, as are all things associated with Him (His Might, His Forgiveness, etc), but our finite minds cannot comprehend them. For this further reason we should not include infinite sets into our mathematical universe. " < 1289590710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YEAH :D < 1289590713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll have EIGHT cores! < 1289590717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Which requires a dual-socket motherboard. And also uses more heat. < 1289590729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm a freak, so I don't want a single moving part in my computer other than the bulk storage hard disk. < 1289590731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, DAMN YOU THERMODYNAMICS < 1289590743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Meaning: I have thermal limits I need to adhere to. < 1289590749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conservapedia.com/Axiom_of_Infinity < 1289590750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Intel is evil because? < 1289590812 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1289590818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not offering virtualisation in lower-end processors just to make people buy more, illegal demand to a laptop (IIRC) manufacturer that they cannot use AMD processors in more than N models otherwise Intel would break their deal (they got fined SHITLOADS for this), Trusted Computing bullshit, and most recently the "You buy a processor, but we've locked up some of the features. You can pay us online, and we'll software-unlock them. Fuck < 1289590820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nd have a nice day." < 1289590848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not offering virtualisation in lower-end processors just to make people buy more" < 1289590851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1289590851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1289590855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no technical reason or cost to disable VT-x in the processors < 1289590858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AMD offers it on all models < 1289590865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a scummy marketing technique < 1289590928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So the only problem is that AMD processors suck. :) < 1289590933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know! I'll buy a TRANSMETA PROCESSOR. < 1289590946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So AMD sucks and Intel is evil? < 1289590977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pretty much. Well, AMD don't suck too much. < 1289591001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If you don't mind a dozen or so extra watts on your power bill, and you don't care how loud your computer is, you can run AMD just fine. < 1289591008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's freaks like me that have issues. < 1289591030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, move to Siberia? < 1289591053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: IIRC someone in Finland did use an external radiator... < 1289591062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But hooking a heatpipe system up to a radiator is not fun. :) < 1289591069 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's encryption in the processor for those features? < 1289591085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Much easier if you can just poke holes in your case, and put a GIGANTIC FUCKING HEATSINK on your CPU. < 1289591089 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To gain access to those features, I mean? < 1289591092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The other option is this: http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=zalman_fanless.html < 1289591095 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289591097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Which I'd just buy, except it's Intel-only. < 1289591116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: I think it's just a bit-flip, but I'm not sure. < 1289591117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[htkallas@triton ~]$ salloc -p short grep -c ^processor /proc/cpuinfo 2>/dev/null < 1289591117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 < 1289591121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need at least that many cores. < 1289591128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferrably a strictly greater number. < 1289591136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Donate all your computers and I TOTALLY WILL < 1289591142 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then why doesn't someone distribute gpld software to do t? < 1289591149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm, I could just use a qemu emulating a 13-core machine as my main computer. < 1289591164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Obnoxious lawsuit. < 1289591164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Because you'd have to reverse-engineer it? Also, haha, GPL, more likely some Windows shitsoftware written by a script kiddie. < 1289591170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what pikhq said. < 1289591175 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, have I ever expressed my disdain for Linux's support for my graphics hardware? < 1289591186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's sort of not Linux's fault, but yes, everyone has that problem. < 1289591190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for Intel card users. < 1289591196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we have the problem of underpowered GPUs. < 1289591202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you said you use Intel. Which just means that you're on crack. < 1289591222 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some Intel onboard laptop rubbish. < 1289591228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's unfair. < 1289591246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what I have and WFM. < 1289591263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually ran *perfectly* until Ubuntu 10.04 IIRC. < 1289591263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Intel should just work. < 1289591283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the official driver for it is part of X... < 1289591287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Now*, the GPU actually hangs upon a number of things. < 1289591296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requiring a complete reboot. < 1289591318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So either some solder melted or something is badly wrong. < 1289591355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=58457 < 1289591372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Gets awesomecrazy a few posts in. < 1289591436 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. Universal USB Installer uses a temporary copy of 7zip < 1289591452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have you ever noticed how awesome mice are? < 1289591467 0 :Baal_Zebel!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1289591498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07)]] — lspci < 1289591511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07)]] < 1289591527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's evil to its core, but it's certainly Intel. < 1289591534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, and here's one of my favourite cases: http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/epcn-tnn500/epcn1.jpg < 1289591554 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large surface area? < 1289591557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That thing -- case and cooling system -- costs about $1,000. < 1289591564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is UNBELIEVABLY heavy. < 1289591576 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It weighs more than the sun. < 1289591583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is a case. Inside, you have small heatsinks and the whole thing is wired up with copper pipe like a watercooled system except... solid copper. < 1289591589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, it's attached to the outer shell of the case. < 1289591595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is just REALLY THICK, REALLY HEAVY METAL. < 1289591597 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stick a Stirling engine somewhere. < 1289591599 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh look. Now that I do what Canonical recommended, and told Unetbootin to fuck off, things work < 1289591600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a thermocouple. < 1289591606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only is it an iron maiden, it just dissipates the heat into HELL. < 1289591618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see wut i did thar heavy meatl iron ma) < 1289591624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "# Weighs 26Kg." < 1289591630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madness. < 1289591633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I weigh less than double that! < 1289591635 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although right now it looks like it's stuck < 1289591640 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It better not be stuck < 1289591652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/epcn-tnn500/epcn9.jpg TECHNOLOGY < 1289591656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it was discontinued in 2004 :( < 1289591724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if bsmntbombdood still uses that insane rig I specced out for him. < 1289591731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still can't believe it cost less than $1,600. < 1289591736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how about: you have a radiator array somewhere out-of-the way; you run the pipes to that, and use a Stirling engine to pump it. < 1289591740 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it's stuck on NET: Registered protocol family 1 < 1289591760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pumping of any sort is out. Movement of any sort = sound. < 1289591768 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is nothing happening grrrrb < 1289591771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need a cooler if you use a GoL processor < 1289591774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hence "inconspicuous". < 1289591775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The only sound I'll accept is a one terabyte bulk storage drive, and that grudgingly :P < 1289591779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: tru dat < 1289591800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hell, you can get fans that are literally inaudible in any sane (non-anechoic chamber) environment. < 1289591804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Stirling engine is at the radiator. < 1289591804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you do but you can just use gliders to send heat away from the action < 1289591806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But I'm a crazy bastard, you see. < 1289591806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1289591809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm < 1289591813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well it could work < 1289591820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: find me a big ass-radiator that'd work without too much modding :P < 1289591820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :information = heat right < 1289591826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it runs from the heat gradient across the radiator. < 1289591832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also surely a regular pump would work < 1289591836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: totally. < 1289591844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's why the hotter you get, the smarter you are < 1289591854 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hohooo < 1289591855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, but it's less cool. < 1289591857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231392 anyone want 48 gigs of ram? < 1289591860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :includes four ram fans < 1289591864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also inelegant. < 1289591914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226096 Or, much more reasonably, 12 gigs of ram :P < 1289591915 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it would be *best* to have a huge amount of heat with the Stirling system. < 1289591923 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't working. Why isn't it working? < 1289591938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, what are you doing this time? < 1289591962 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attempting to get Ubuntu 10.10 Netbook Edition to start off USB < 1289591964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving the water takes constant power, which comes entirely from the heat. < 1289592000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders. < 1289592029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much force would you expect to need to run a radiator in such a system? < 1289592170 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wont the bloody thing work? < 1289592177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1289592185 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there's some CMOS setting that I need? < 1289592191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps if you actually described the problem that would help. < 1289592200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you got the boot order right? < 1289592278 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The boot order wont stick, but Ive been using the boot menu < 1289592289 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It keeps getting stuck at that NET thing < 1289592299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... NET... thing. < 1289592308 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I quoted above < 1289592445 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fun < 1289592477 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CMOS deletes the USB entry from the boot order when there's a boot up without a USB stico < 1289592593 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/TEVSt.jpg this is where it's stuck < 1289592662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Toshiba T150? < 1289592667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks very much like my machine. < 1289592679 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T215 < 1289592689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*T130 < 1289592703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Cool, the retarded brother of my laptop. < 1289592805 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, protocol family 1 is Unix domain sockets, and necessarily doesn't have all that much to do with whatever it gets stuck with. < 1289592848 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then, why is it getting stuck? < 1289592869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: I don't know I'll use my psychic powers < 1289592873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMMMMMMMMMMMMM < 1289592877 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that I may have downloaded the 32 bit version < 1289592894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant. < 1289592899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would still boot just fine. < 1289592938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably won't help, but my Ubuntu boot-time dmesg looks quite a lot like that, and the immediately following lines are: < 1289592940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.404185] NET: Registered protocol family 1 < 1289592941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.482223] Freeing initrd memory: 9188k freed < 1289592941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1.430015] pci 0000:00:12.1: OHCI: BIOS handoff failed (BIOS bug?) 00000184 < 1289592941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1.521275] pci 0000:01:05.0: Boot video device < 1289592946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, what do you have installed right now. < 1289592960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WINDOZ probably < 1289592978 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 < 1289592981 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, have you actually tried AW on Wine? < 1289592994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or better yet NOT tried it? < 1289592994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried to use the noapic/nolapic/acpi=off boot parameters with that Ubuntu? < 1289593010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, incidentally, WP had, in its comparison of TeX editors, "Compatibility with Windows 7 math panel". < 1289593020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: heh < 1289593020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Those should be there in the boot-time menu.) < 1289593022 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning on first trying this, and if I liked it, dual-boot < 1289593022 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried it in the past < 1289593024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly one of the editors had anything other than "No" in that column. < 1289593043 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say "had" in the past tense because I deleted it. < 1289593059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Information elitist. < 1289593109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyaah, wait. < 1289593115 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuzzier, hadn't tried it yet < 1289593124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP's table format doesn't allow you to get rid of columns easily. < 1289593189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, opinion on paternoster lifts? < 1289593214 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between them? < 1289593217 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Opinion on Valery Nikolayevsky? < 1289593227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have a reason for this seemingly random question! < 1289593231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Opinion on global warming? < 1289593237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You did it with Minecarts. < 1289593247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no. with boats. Or I'm going to do so < 1289593249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=22428 < 1289593250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that < 1289593253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very cool < 1289593258 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fizzie? < 1289593259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, mine was a Wikipedia "Random article", unsurprisingly. < 1289593274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1289593341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If you don't spoon-feed SgeoN1 some answers now, he might have to think and where will we be then? < 1289593342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Uh, they do different things? noapic/nolapic disable some newer sort of programmable interrupt controllers, and acpi=off may help on systems where the ACPI bios stuff is somehow strangey-weirdo. < 1289593355 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just tried all of them < 1289593366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, that's reasonable. < 1289593382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, apic != acpi < 1289593388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same letters yes < 1289593408 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...believe it or not, I realized that < 1289593419 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just had no clue what any of them meant < 1289593427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I guess another way to phrase that would be that words are _ordered_ sets of letters. < 1289593427 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If only they would've called it Advanced Power and Configuration Interface, instead of Advanced Configuration and Power Interface; then we'd have identical acronyms there. < 1289593438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1289593470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, or actually APCI is still not APIC. Oh well. < 1289593479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1289593495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe call the latter Advanced Programmable Controller of Interrupts instead of ... Interrupt Controller. < 1289593496 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: very good < 1289593534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: aka lists < 1289593541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words can have duplicates < 1289593543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they could have called PCIe APCI too. For Advanced PCI < 1289593547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordered multiset i.e. list :P < 1289593553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah indeed < 1289593558 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought 10.10 Netbook Edition was supposed to use Chromium by default < 1289593590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think "ordered multisets" sounds better than "lists" though. Mainly because it takes slightly longer to parse. < 1289593595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: You thought wrong. < 1289593623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Did you mention what actually happened with those options? < 1289593655 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked < 1289593665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, how strange. < 1289593668 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which did it though < 1289593683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess would be acpi=off, but that's just from personal "thing that breaks often" experiences. < 1289593684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: what is, the thing i told you last or the thing i said last? < 1289593693 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i guess i haven't said anything for a while so < 1289593693 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does anyone here know cobol? < 1289593698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1 < 1289593711 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: -- You are sitting in a chair. -- < 1289593711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knows pretty much everything about it < 1289593730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : My guess would be acpi=off, but that's just from personal "thing that breaks often" experiences. <-- I just hope that is a desktop and not a laptop < 1289593733 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, #intel-gfx is apparently too dead to help me. < 1289593734 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289593747 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i was replying to what you said to me last < 1289593761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yeah realized < 1289593769 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1289593773 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can almost like < 1289593776 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1289593778 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read each other's thoughts. < 1289593781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finish each other's... < 1289593783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1289593791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ruined it :D < 1289593805 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289593851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a laptop, which might make power-management and/or suspendy stuff quite a tricky thing. < 1289593895 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was busy surfing the net < 1289593907 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry sweetheart :( < 1289593918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed it would < 1289593920 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so does sgeo really know that much about cobol? < 1289593923 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no prob < 1289593926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: well umm < 1289593935 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the thing < 1289593937 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't really read the conversation from which i deduced this < 1289593940 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a huge codebase < 1289593944 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in COBOL < 1289593952 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to have it translated to php < 1289593960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think it was more like sgeo said about cobol that wasn't completely retarded and everyone hated on him < 1289593975 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's already one team working on it, but their approach is crap < 1289594033 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm sort of looking for ideas < 1289594042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have some sort of real problem, i'm not the guy to talk to < 1289594050 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1289594066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have an imaginary problem then maybe < 1289594072 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is unusual enough that it's highly unlikely someone will actually have experience doing that exactly < 1289594076 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1289594080 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine i have a cobol codebase < 1289594086 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i need to translate it to php < 1289594088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm umm well i can give you all the insight i have: < 1289594090 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO < 1289594090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your problem < 1289594094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds really trivial < 1289594098 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get some monkey to do it < 1289594106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, cobol... php. Both are very wtf. < 1289594111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't think cobol-> could ever be a bad thing < 1289594113 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: don't ask why < 1289594115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but putting php on the end of it < 1289594117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1289594119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you succeeded < 1289594120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289594127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: #unesoteric < 1289594131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D < 1289594140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can help with all practical questions. especially ones about COBOL and PHP. < 1289594140 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: #angst < 1289594154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... those messages were so angsty... < 1289594169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm cutting myself just to let the ANGST out of my body. < 1289594181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't just be that you never talk about anything interesting or even vaguely on the esoteric side of things, nope. < 1289594184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Now talking on #unesoteric < 1289594185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Phantom_Hoover (~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #unesoteric < 1289594185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ oklopol (~oklopol@xdsl-83-150-123-242.nebulazone.fi) has joined #unesoteric < 1289594188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1289594195 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways.. < 1289594195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see, a thriving community alraedy < 1289594197 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some dime involved < 1289594199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D < 1289594210 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if anyone's got good ideas, i'm all ears. < 1289594235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't need money i have a joba < 1289594237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*job < 1289594250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody here does COBOL. nobody here does PHP. nobody wants to. nobody wants to help whatever shitty conversion that is. especially if you won't even justify it. < 1289594262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i read a book about cobol once? < 1289594264 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is *job just like a virtual idea of where your actual job would be? < 1289594275 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i actually do have a job < 1289594285 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was a job pointer < 1289594286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is i'm not actually getting payed that much < 1289594304 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: #AANNGGSSTT < 1289594322 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ya :-\ < 1289594323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: can I borrow a dictionary? I think cheater99 needs some definitions clarified for him. e.g. "angst" < 1289594339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angst (uncountable) < 1289594343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1. A feeling of acute but vague anxiety or apprehension often accompanied by depression, especially philosophical anxiety. < 1289594345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2. More commonly, painful sadness or emotional turmoil, as teen angst. < 1289594346 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289594362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure you can. Cambridge unabridged < 1289594363 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how is what you're doing not apprehension? < 1289594363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess he could theoretically think that he manages to induce emotional turmoil in me rather than chronic irritatedness. < 1289594369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha elliott has an uncountable amount of angst < 1289594384 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: he has 2^angst < 1289594392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: "homophobia (uncountable) < 1289594396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1. (obsolete, individual occurrences) A pathological fear of mankind." < 1289594396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it, his angst has a subset that has strictly less cardinality than his angst that can still be put in bijection with its proper subset < 1289594398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: ergo homophobia means "fear" < 1289594404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it's true, because one of the words was in there < 1289594408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: SO TRUE < 1289594435 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL should be easy to mechanically translate from < 1289594437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, #unesoteric has competent COBOL and PHP experts, FWIW. < 1289594442 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it wont produce readable code < 1289594444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, don't get involved. < 1289594453 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you done having your attack? < 1289594455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott and I will never forget. < 1289594467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: oh? i would've thought it's especially hard to parse < 1289594469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: sorry i will stop this libel and slander < 1289594477 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thx < 1289594483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i apologise for any losses you may have incurred as a result of my hideous character deformation < 1289594489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't feed the troll < 1289594497 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even begin to imagine under what circumstances cobol->PHP is even meaningful though < 1289594502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: my only condition is that you administrate #unesoteric for the good of COBOLkind. < 1289594510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: everyone else does, so obviously it must be fun < 1289594511 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: someone's paying, that's meaningful enough :P < 1289594517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about PHP->COBOL? < 1289594526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers paying cheater99 to rape babies all day long < 1289594540 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i thought you were done now? < 1289594547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you didn't agree to my condition < 1289594551 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you, 14? < 1289594555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 < 1289594559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a half < 1289594563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and three quarters of a half < 1289594569 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, do COBOL -> Python or Java or Ruby or somethinf < 1289594577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry *8 < 1289594581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 and a half and three quarters of a half < 1289594589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, exactly? < 1289594602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. i have a time machine set up to ensure this age stays constant < 1289594607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like peter pan < 1289594609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to divide it down to plank time :P < 1289594614 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL should not be involved with web sites. PHP should not be involved with... well, anything really, but especially not nonwensites < 1289594619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is plank time the time it takes for a plank? < 1289594620 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: i would love to be doing python, but unfortunately the project's been doing php for years now :p < 1289594630 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you go forward in time all the time you mean? < 1289594639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1289594640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err did I typo? < 1289594641 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: in this case, cobol was involved in websites, and now php is involved in doing websites, and non-websites < 1289594643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: at a rate of 1 second per second! < 1289594647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: planck < 1289594648 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: which is fairly crazy < 1289594650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right < 1289594667 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: how would you do this mechanical translation, anyways? < 1289594686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: kittens and rainbows < 1289594688 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cobol doesn't have much in the way of an AST that can be meaningfully used, since it has lots of goto's < 1289594694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put them on a treadmill and put a furnace behind the treadmill < 1289594696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually plank time is the same. But you can check how many rings they have to find out... uh... how many rings they have! < 1289594700 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of weird jumps and entry points < 1289594701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make the treadmill go super-fast if they don't type out PHP code < 1289594705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solved < 1289594706 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you want readable PHP, do translation by hand, then spend a few months getting rid of the globalism and Vito's and alters and everything else that makes COBOL so bad < 1289594709 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really translate to any sane language being used nowadays < 1289594711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rainbows are just there for decoration < 1289594720 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: it doesn't have to be readable.. it just has to do the same thing, really < 1289594735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Note: do not confuse plank time and tree time. Tree time is when you drink sap. < 1289594746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at tree o'clock < 1289594757 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Globalism? Vito's? Fuck you autocorrect < 1289594766 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs Vorpal with a ... wrench. < 1289594775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Plank time is when your plank gets hard and then sap comes out of it. < 1289594782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1289594784 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what's the "vitos" supposed to be? :o < 1289594786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Worst stabbing instrument ever :P < 1289594799 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, you say that until there's a wrench stickin' out yer kidney. < 1289594806 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: ^ < 1289594809 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult can it be to mechanically translate gotos to something... that exists in PHP? < 1289594814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs Vorpal with a cardboard box < 1289594818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STAB STAB STAB < 1289594819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why did I just imagine a google results page saying "Did you mean: stab with a wench" < 1289594820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STABBY STAB STAB < 1289594822 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotos, I think < 1289594823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: php added goto recently < 1289594831 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: php has goto's, but it's more about the zillions of entry points, and global references < 1289594848 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to mechanically get rid of alter? I remember seeing it once < 1289594853 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: also, php using goto's isn't really recommended < 1289594862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :php isn't really recommended. < 1289594868 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you said it has to work, not be readable < 1289594871 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: agreed < 1289594872 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nice (read: terrible) way to emulate goto which I think PHP has the equivalent of is with a labeled switch with fallthrough. < 1289594878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs elliott with a cardboard fox < 1289594882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PHP has goto. < 1289594892 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: yeah, but goto in php is bad in that it doesn't work too well < 1289594892 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOTO EVIL :P < 1289594899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to the days when this channel was about the interesting stuff that people weren't doing just because they were paid to do it? < 1289594904 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: also it can't do everything that cobol goto can do < 1289594908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yarly < 1289594910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, cheater99 (and others) happened. < 1289594917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION AAAAAANGST < 1289594920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION angus < 1289594938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, /ignore cheater99 < 1289594941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets all do it < 1289594941 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's cute < 1289594942 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, have your script mechanically copy and paste so that function calls are used where gotos qere < 1289594946 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GO!! < 1289594951 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duplication of code, the works < 1289594954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: been doing that for ages, oklopol will never do it and the beast will get fed :p < 1289594957 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: yeah < 1289594960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but ok, fine, i'll put it on this partition too < 1289594961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please. < 1289594963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOLIDARITY < 1289594966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: you too < 1289594967 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should work just fine < 1289594971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE HE'LL CUT HIMSELF TO DEATH ;_; < 1289594972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just added the ignore < 1289594978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the angst he projects onto others < 1289594978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, goes on about his job *once*, and the channel is RUINED FOREVER? < 1289594988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you have terrible memory. < 1289594991 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: what does "alter" do actually? < 1289594998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99 has never once discussed anything interesting. i don't recall him mentioning esolangs once. < 1289594999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, other examples? < 1289595000 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: it changes the global state, doesn't it? < 1289595000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i just ignored him today < 1289595006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then realized maybe it was my fault < 1289595019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything I do is becoming decreasingly esoteric :P < 1289595020 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheater, Google it < 1289595022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: every single thing he says is pointless and stupid. and most of it is blatant trolling. < 1289595026 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: ok < 1289595027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, but you're not an irritating fuckwit. < 1289595034 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not D-8 < 1289595036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOES < 1289595044 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: awwww < 1289595045 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1289595073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no your wit is too ugly to be fucked < 1289595080 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch :P < 1289595089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try washing your beard sometime. < 1289595095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can start working on your wit. < 1289595153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor has a beard? < 1289595153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1289595159 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't :P < 1289595165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does. < 1289595166 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even physically capable. < 1289595168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unwashed. < 1289595172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289595176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha... < 1289595198 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: so alter is basically like a static var containing a callback < 1289595211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, of course you can't grow a beard. < 1289595219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a pansy little Englishman! < 1289595226 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Anglo-Jew < 1289595232 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah let's all call Gregor names and then ignore him and maybe kill him < 1289595236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way < 1289595238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after my dream < 1289595243 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i so wanna see Gregor < 1289595246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and drink tea with him < 1289595250 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't drink tea :P < 1289595260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll make ya < 1289595264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't either tho < 1289595272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor has no taste of smell < 1289595275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he just like < 1289595277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tastes and smells only dung < 1289595279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his entire life < 1289595281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is accurate < 1289595285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1289595294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE EXPAND GREGOR ON THIS TOPIC < 1289595334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sheesh, I think AMD actually comes out more expensive overall due to the motherboards and shit. < 1289595346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you're not a Jew, you're a filthy Englishman! < 1289595354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Found a nice motherboard for $49.99. All compatible stuff and the like. AM3. But 95W max cpu. < 1289595359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The others are... more expensive. < 1289595364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ATX.) < 1289595444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you can't grow facial hair because you didn't eat PORRIDGE. < 1289595515 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: i don't see any other way to understand it than that < 1289595550 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works, I guess < 1289595599 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: have you ever done any translation of cobol to something else? < 1289595604 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or automatic refactoring of cobol? < 1289595605 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1289595616 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mope < 1289595619 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N < 1289595622 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1289595904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you MUST try the vertical waterfall with boat thingy, it is super-fast < 1289595905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1289595915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very fun < 1289595932 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: btw, how is this topology based cobnti < 1289595944 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: btw, how is this topology based continuity broader defined than the sup based one? < 1289595983 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i don't think the hypothesis for the sup based one actually ensures there's a topology, does it? < 1289595994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you take a certain topology on the poset, then that sup continuity is actually just the usual continuity < 1289596015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err well you add the topology. < 1289596037 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but which topology? < 1289596061 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because function continuity isn't an invariant of topology, is it? < 1289596067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a topology where open sets are upper sets that you can't reach with sups of directed sets from their complement...... < 1289596071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1289596077 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1289596128 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an upper set is (x, oo) ? < 1289596136 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well almost < 1289596141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1289596147 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one, but the definition is < 1289596170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x \in set, y >= x => y in set < 1289596201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we have infs then yours gives all of these, i think, if you take [x, oo) and (x, oo) < 1289596204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK < 1289596211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1289596213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it doesn't < 1289596228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in finite lattices < 1289596242 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1289596268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway i do admit that may not be the most natural topology on an ordered set < 1289596268 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just a mental shortcut < 1289596277 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1289596414 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't wait till he has all his maths books with him.. < 1289596425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmmm math books < 1289596458 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just reading about different topologies for CA today < 1289596474 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexy topologies < 1289596490 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CA? < 1289596499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cellular automata < 1289596507 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i've got like 300 maths and physics books.. < 1289596521 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in about 5 languages :) < 1289596523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have like 1000 on my computer, but very few irl < 1289596529 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's irl < 1289596536 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1289596538 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my computer that's like 5 digits < 1289596538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yummy < 1289596547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just lick them all day < 1289596555 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i do.. < 1289596559 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they're with me :( < 1289596570 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hadn't seen most of 'em since i started my moves around europe < 1289596572 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why aren't they with you? < 1289596574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1289596579 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moved out of my hometown < 1289596584 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to See the World! < 1289596603 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the meantime i acquired some smaller collections :p < 1289596606 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have kurka's topological and symbolic dynamics < 1289596612 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some on britain, some in germany < 1289596618 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1289596625 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean in pdf? < 1289596645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i meant tree < 1289596655 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1289596659 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nearest i have is kuratowski < 1289596664 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289596687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't kuratowski also do some computational stuffs and things? < 1289596695 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1289596695 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he did everything tho < 1289596710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1289596714 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a book (not by him) on computable numbers < 1289596730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurka is actually written with a u with o on top, in case you don't know the guy < 1289596738 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kuratowski did mostly stuff around the sets R and N. < 1289596757 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know him < 1289596767 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of that character either < 1289596771 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds... scandinavian < 1289596780 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but kurka means little chicken in polish. < 1289596795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i thought it was polish or something < 1289596820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb tho! < 1289596946 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh he's czechish < 1289596948 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :czech. < 1289596971 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289596980 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.cts.cuni.cz/~kurka/ < 1289596994 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i saw the first name (petr) it was obvious he's czech < 1289597098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, new screenshots at http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/ (2010-11-10_23.45.52.png and onwards). Including a fun attraction < 1289597116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the loop system yet < 1289597122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was testing out the general idea < 1289597228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1289597958 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289598033 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-34-128.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289598903 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289599260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stupidly visits a site he knows will give him nightmares tonight < 1289599317 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1289599321 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gaaaah < 1289599326 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tk looks like motif < 1289599329 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uglyy < 1289599575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289599714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides not to read the scary parts < 1289599734 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what site? < 1289599746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://exitmundi.nl < 1289599835 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tk !!!!!!!!! < 1289599851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I have the same problem. I hate you. < 1289599861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION exercises SELF-CONTROL. < 1289600172 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly i want to make an UI based on boxes and wires < 1289600178 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and inlets and outlets < 1289600181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is the Mysterious Teleport Hacker the guy with the alien science? < 1289600195 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have no idea for what < 1289600197 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1289600449 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1289600453 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2000kB/s < 1289600461 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love my provider < 1289601354 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289601683 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1289602102 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the grand plan for today was to not drink and instead work on getting my kernel to relocate itself to a safe area of the address space and put user-accessible pages in a different area < 1289602480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme guess: you drank a lot and made the kernel do a sum total of nothing. < 1289602505 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, can we contract you to do OS stuff we can't be bothered to do ourselves? < 1289602531 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott asked yesterday if I could be contracted to write a compiler in assembly < 1289602536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not define "safe area" as "area where the kernel is"? < 1289602556 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: but the kernel is in the *same* area as the other stuff, so that won't fly < 1289602557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I guess that could slow down application-level pointer arithmatic < 1289602566 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028093.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1289602585 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need them to live in discontiguous pages, at least discontiguous *virtual* pages < 1289602597 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I need the user-space to not have write access to any kernel stuff < 1289602604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the standard method is IIRC to make the kernel be in the higher-half address space. < 1289602744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: elliott, is the Mysterious Teleport Hacker the guy with the alien science? < 1289602747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1289602760 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and amd64's treatment of addresses (where there's one part growing from the bottom and one growing from the top) pretty much screams "put the kernel HEeeeeEeeRE!" and points to the upper halfspace < 1289602765 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy who's been screwing with all of the teleport experiments. < 1289602802 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, another MTH? you do know there are several of them, right? < 1289602810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: name plz < 1289602813 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *do* know, right? < 1289602820 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there *isn't* a name yet. < 1289602835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows < 1289602837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's just the two mishaps during the tests of the apparatus. < 1289602841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh, the Bad Guy? I know no more than you. And what tells you it's a *person*? < 1289602841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, shut up. < 1289602851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you say anything I will eviscerate your body. < 1289602858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, that's the theory I was fielding. < 1289602876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Where are you up to? < 1289602883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read The Story So Far and no further, as it stands. < 1289602885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TywmpMQYojs < 1289602913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm up to 'Two killed in "transporter accident"'. < 1289602920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what's that video? < 1289602944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's probably the song where all the rhymes seem to point to expletives/sexual references but then THEY DON'T < 1289602950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes < 1289602952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The version I saw is rather amusing, at least.) < 1289602954 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THE VERY song < 1289602955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I don't have Flash.) < 1289602966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Gotta love the BBC "quotes" there. < 1289602981 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1289603000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I always get the feeling that the BBC is vaguely sceptical about everything that happens ever. < 1289603010 0 :digimunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1289603014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, I knew Mitch was hyperspacing. < 1289603023 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being sceptical is a very good approach to pretty much everything though < 1289603035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, except nullity < 1289603050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but not in a condescending way :) < 1289603055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But not superpositioning... < 1289603056 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think scepticism applies to nullity, really. < 1289603062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stupidity. < 1289603112 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're saying condescending scepticism is bad? < 1289603122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: when applied to everything, yes < 1289603160 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything applied to everything is bad, everything should be applied (only) where appropriate < 1289603171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "Recent scientific studies show strong possibility that [thing] can help significantly alleviate Alzheimer's. [well written, factual, sourced article]" "I'll wait to see the reports on the JOURNALIST'S Alzheimer's first, heh." < 1289603246 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... then again, we should apply anything where inappropriate too - so that we can know how well it works) < 1289603248 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but that's *already* a sceptical headline. < 1289603265 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: written by a JOURNALIST? < 1289603266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Healthy scepticism != condescending "scepticism". < 1289603275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It takes place in my fantasy world, k. < 1289603281 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, k < 1289603295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Now write the ElliottOSLang compiler. < 1289603304 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has very limited knowledge on elliott's fantasy world < 1289603314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oh, you really must learn. < 1289603315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: EVERYONE HAS A PET BEE < 1289603327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, everyone who learns of my fantasy world gets to LIVE IN IT < 1289603328 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh, DO I < 1289603330 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like wonderland, except crazier and less conservative. < 1289603354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I don't believe that ElliottOS will ever get significant adoption at all :P < 1289603365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I expect Phantom_Hoover to switch, or I'll slit his throat. < 1289603393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wouldn't switch fully. < 1289603398 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killing your potential users means they become guaranteed non-users < 1289603405 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THIS A GOOD THING??? < 1289603406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until people who write software started using it. < 1289603439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It'd have an IRC client and a web browser, what more do you need. < 1289603455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Golly, or an equivalent, < 1289603475 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For jiggery-pokery. < 1289603477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*) < 1289603500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, could you make Emacs a cakewalk by writing an ELISP evaluator in CL? < 1289603513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nethack. Can't go without Nethack. < 1289603543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can play NetHack over VNC or something. < 1289603550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VNC? < 1289603556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay, fine, NetHack too. < 1289603564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VNC = remote display protocol. < 1289603567 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1289603579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like X11 except you don't use it locally either. < 1289603579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, and a text editor. < 1289603597 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what I was rambling about Emacs for. < 1289603599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (The UI will probably be something like a souped-up Emacs with a lesser focus on text.) < 1289603623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add an ELISP interpreter to that, and you basically have Emacs, unless I'm missing something. < 1289603660 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1289603669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, except not nearly as good. < 1289603669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean, Emacs doesn't have orthogonal persistence. < 1289603695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ... any of my OS features. < 1289603695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its UI is a hopelessly inadequate implementation of what it could be. < 1289603705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that. < 1289603706 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925108739.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1289603744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you can run ELISP stuff with minimal modification you have a tremendous library of useful stuff. < 1289603767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (I mean, Genera's interface is basically "Emacs on crack" already.) < 1289603779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: elisp is possibly the worst Lisp ever thought of ever. < 1289603779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Even disregarding that... they're usually very tied to the idea of "files". < 1289603787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of don't have files. < 1289603790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simulate files! < 1289603793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know ELISP is basically stoneage-lisp. < 1289603798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's not like I'm not reimplementing everything myself anyway. Compared to what I already have on my plate, what's a bunch of elisp? < 1289603804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a crazy idea, remember? < 1289603816 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes, and ruin the whole concept. < 1289603819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the oldest lisp? < 1289603827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have one simple word for that. < 1289603827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1289603829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LISP, you cretin. < 1289603857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Phantom_Hoover said :P < 1289603857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oldest Lisp is LISP. < 1289603859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels "dolt" woul have been more appropriate < 1289603895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Whatever you say, cretin. < 1289603908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that's the wrong kind of tone, although not having the inflection makes it seem harsher. < 1289603915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nixon, you dolt", you dolt! < 1289603948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sure thing, cunt. < 1289603967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=5351459 < 1289603979 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cretins, the whole lot of you < 1289604022 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1289604037 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, and I may have cut myself on a potato chip < 1289604063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :papertato cut! < 1289604065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how < 1289604070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once cut a piece of paper in half with another piece of paper. < 1289604091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely assumes that olsner isn't hemophiliac < 1289604094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the internet down for everyone else < 1289604105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no. < 1289604115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes. We are all hallucinations < 1289604120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1289604125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, have you actually read elliott's screeds against filesystems? < 1289604129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well it's down for me. Get it back up. < 1289604142 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I ... don't think so < 1289604142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the internet is sort of working < 1289604144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowly. < 1289604160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, don't make him. < 1289604170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That rant wasn't the best rant I've ever done :P < 1289604172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to read it! < 1289604174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's all true of course, just expressed badly.) < 1289604175 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, you don't like the one on catseye any more, do you? < 1289604177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1289604188 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably agree with it, tbh < 1289604223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/ehird/files-suck.html is the essay; but keep in mind what was just said. < 1289604225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://catseye.tc/ehird/files-suck.html < 1289604225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the URL. < 1289604239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you like it, you're as whiny as I was when I wrote that. < 1289604267 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: assumptions, assumptions < 1289604277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP olsner < 1289604312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the point has been made elsewhere, like on Stanislav's blog. < 1289604318 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289604323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner is haemophiliac; blood turns him on. < 1289604328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SEE ALSO: Twilight.) < 1289604336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH "whiny" is not a word from which Stanislav retracts. < 1289604344 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that be a haemosexual? < 1289604360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ahh, I'd rather my whinging than his incessant pretentious douchebaggery :) < 1289604360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love the guy, but he's the most pompous fucker you'll ever see. < 1289604375 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Maybe it depends if it is sexual or not? < 1289604379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "paedosexual" < 1289604381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course not that's simply wasteful, isnt it? Why not store it as the rich representation in the first place, and have functions operate on it directly? That saves computing time and is also much simpler." < 1289604381 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289604387 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right < 1289604392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh... < 1289604395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think haemophiliac works. < 1289604395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: unicode fail < 1289604399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("?") < 1289604405 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: getting turned on is by definition sexual, I think < 1289604419 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: In that case, I guess it is "haemosexual". < 1289604433 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1289604443 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289604445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stanislav Pestov? < 1289604454 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott,Sgeo: Yes it is unicode failure. (I get shaded blocks after "not " and after "isn") < 1289604456 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: then again, as elliott pointed out, the terms don't necessarily differentiate between philiacs and sexuals < 1289604456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stanislav Gorgistonnion. < 1289604477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1289604483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Ah. Well, you select the term according to what is properly meant by the terms in the current context, then. < 1289604484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I link him to it? < 1289604486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Utterly wrong person I was trying to think of < 1289604495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1289604503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the Factor guy in mind < 1289604506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What, to the Loper OS blog? Naw. He can find it himself. < 1289604539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's Slava. < 1289604545 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: appropos RIP - "64-bit instruction pointer olsner" makes no sense... < 1289604785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a thing: what would your Lisp OS actually be called once Mitosis came to a sufficiently advanced point? < 1289604892 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, here I go again... open video in fullscreen, press the fullscreen button, expect video to cover entire field of vision < 1289604896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Stanislav lists Mathematica as a non-broken programming system. < 1289604930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1289604932 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, HTML5 on YouTube? < 1289604946 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real world is a bad window manager, where moving windows means moving monitors aroudn and you can't resize windows without investing money < 1289604994 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldnt you have to invest money to move wndows? < 1289605002 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I hopelessly lost in your analogy < 1289605026 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, normally you press the mouse button down in the right place then move the mouse and release the button later < 1289605046 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's completely free once you've invested in the computer, pointing device and your first monitor < 1289605058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're talking about an actual window manager named "the real world"? < 1289605075 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm talking about the actual real physical world here < 1289605092 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I get it < 1289605098 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. making the full-screen video larger requires getting a bigger screen < 1289605101 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which costs money < 1289605102 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-196-169.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289605106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O... OH < 1289605111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289605117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HO2 < 1289605135 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-196-169.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289605148 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drinks some dihydrogen monoxide < 1289605158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives pikhq some hydrogen dioxide < 1289605160 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1289605165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet hiccup. < 1289605177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:34:56 Hmm, Stanislav lists Mathematica as a non-broken programming system. < 1289605177 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked like an elliott hiccup from here < 1289605178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1289605189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:33:05 elliott, a thing: what would your Lisp OS actually be called once Mitosis came to a sufficiently advanced point? < 1289605210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The perfect OS must of course have the perfect name. I cannot possibly trust myself with deciding what the perfect name is without extensive thought; therefore, the actual OS is unnamed. < 1289605223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make hybrid Bluray/VHS players. < 1289605228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why god why? < 1289605237 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not DVD? < 1289605238 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fusion" would be the logical name, but it's too boring. < 1289605249 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: lang may yer lum reek.. < 1289605254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I highly doubt there's a Bluray player that can't handle DVDs... < 1289605256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeahno. < 1289605256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it's the only biological term for the phenomenon in question. < 1289605261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hydrogen Dioxide is the perfect name! < 1289605271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So more cleverness is neaded. < 1289605272 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: imagine making an C/amd 64, 64k and 64-bit in the same box! < 1289605293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, naw, dihydrogen dioxide is where it's at. < 1289605306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that actually exists! < 1289605307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm a fan of hydric acid. < 1289605384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is that just H_2? < 1289605391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: H2O. < 1289605398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The phenomenon is NIH. < 1289605406 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought H2O is hydroxic acid, not hydric acid? < 1289605408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hydrogen+dioxide < 1289605410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1289605422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, god. < 1289605426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can hydrogen's di- be omitted? < 1289605428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/neaded/needed/ < 1289605480 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uncorrected typos can cause the end of the world. Do be more careful, Phantom_Hoover. < 1289605480 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's ionic < 1289605493 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know why? I don't study chemistry < 1289605511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, my jokes are boring < 1289605549 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: alternately, people just like calling it that < 1289605594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what DO you call HO2? < 1289605608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I'm pretty sure can't exist, but whatever < 1289605626 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You call it "monohydrogen dioxide" < 1289605658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: googling suggests HO2 exists < 1289605682 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hydroperoxyl? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroperoxyl < 1289605698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suppose one of the Hs get taken away when in solution. < 1289605824 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289606130 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HO2 would be a free radical... And probably quite reactive one at that... < 1289606238 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not quite as bad as FO2... < 1289606368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what would be the way you'd write software in Lisp86? < 1289606376 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289606383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Such an uncouth name for the perfect language!