< 1289606401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then come up with your own sodding name1
< 1289606403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*!
< 1289606422 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liþp
< 1289606490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also, if you don't call the stages of Mitosis development {pro,prometa,meta,ana,telo}phase I shall be severely put out.
< 1289606514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: As if I can quantify them that precisely.
< 1289606524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't call *something* that.
< 1289606528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I built such a boat paternoster lift now btw
< 1289606534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cool.
< 1289606538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Er, vertically?
< 1289606541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What's the point of that?
< 1289606555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to get to the bottom of the map quickly
< 1289606572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: jump :D
< 1289606573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, talking about seconds from ground to bedrock here
< 1289606579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not in both directions
< 1289606589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway jumping works if you have a 2 deep water pit at the bottom
< 1289606590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Jump UPWARDS.
< 1289606592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will make it safe
< 1289606593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My clock is strange. It says either 12:00 or 7:30 all the time (nothing else), and it sometimes blinks off and then back on in a few seconds, and it sometimes makes noise (even though the alarm is not enabled).
< 1289606599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is what the boat is for
< 1289606604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It is haunted.
< 1289606606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: POGO STICK
< 1289606614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, get notch to implement it
< 1289606634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you believe in it, it is there.
< 1289606645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289606654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? XD is this a far fetched peter pan reference?
< 1289606669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also that other thing: if you jump down and hit the active field of a ladder, you'll automagically slow down to the ladder-descending speed. (But you can accidentally hit the top part of the ladder too, and go splat, so I guess water's safer.)
< 1289606677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, it's Notchianity.
< 1289606688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ....
< 1289606689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you truly, in your deepest heart, believe in a feature, then Notch will have made it so.
< 1289606697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I stand by this principle in all areas of life.
< 1289606711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you *are* sleep deprived
< 1289606723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Notch is actually from another universe, higher than ours. How Minecraft looks to us is how our universe looks to him. He created Minecraft to illustrate this to us.)
< 1289606733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw, player fall faster than the boat
< 1289606742 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pogo stick makes me think of pogo [music] aka fagottron
< 1289606745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, at least when boat is empty
< 1289606753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Air resistance, maybe.
< 1289606778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "Alice" is in my head forever.
< 1289606795 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, thus it is not safe in general to jump down that hole that is used for the boat. Cost me quite a bit of hitpoints. Thankfully I had new armour before...
< 1289606807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitting the boat hurts
< 1289606831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the boat hitting your head while you stand still? Perfectly safe!
< 1289606852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the screwy physics
< 1289606876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: By the way, I have JACK-O-LANTERNS in my new game. OH YEAH.
< 1289606890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep, and?
< 1289606903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A ton of coal ore (30+ of it) right at the start of the game + patch of lanterns shortly after = Maximum early-game profit :P
< 1289606915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "early-game" is ill-defined in an indefinitely long game.
< 1289606927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a patch of pumpkins you mean
< 1289606934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, right.
< 1289606950 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, tried to use one as a helmet yet?
< 1289606964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know what would be awesome? If, after you move so far away from a given chunk, it just stores the random seed instead. And when you go back, it generates with that seed, but with another parameter randomised slightly.
< 1289606966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (note: works, but no actual protection)
< 1289606976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So it'd look like how it did before, same basic structure, but different -- environmental changes.
< 1289606985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly you'd lose all your modifications. Blame it on the wind.
< 1289606986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, no :P
< 1289606995 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Alice" is nice :) so are all the others, of course
< 1289606996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, try it,  it's cool
< 1289607010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I haven't heard many of the others, but meh. :P
< 1289607027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway 30 coal isn't much. I have a double-chest here marked "coal"
< 1289607034 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re-listening to alice now, but iirc expialidocious is another of the better ones
< 1289607036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one marked "iron"
< 1289607042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then one marked "other ores"
< 1289607049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, forgot the redstone one
< 1289607049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You've been playing a lot. :P
< 1289607052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is separate too
< 1289607058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did this in one daytime.
< 1289607060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other ores is diamond and gold
< 1289607061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it two? No, one, I think.
< 1289607079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I'm building a fortress out of obsidian walls for the lower level
< 1289607094 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I knew my shit I'd like to run off and make something similar from one of the star trek movies
< 1289607108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the Enterprise-D was constructed :P
< 1289607109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this will protect against creeper explosions. Due to obsidian being so hard.
< 1289607120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: of course doing it manually would be near-impossible due to the raw materials you'd need
< 1289607123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lawl
< 1289607126 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not talking about minecraft, lol
< 1289607128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Build a huge castle and live in it.
< 1289607130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh
< 1289607133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so... make a spaceship :P
< 1289607146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i don't know what the context is
< 1289607155 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pogo music, still
< 1289607166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1289607217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes, not sure what I need except from portal room, crafting room, storage room, minecart station. Boat elevator is for use at the mines.
< 1289607223 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunate that KHAAAAN! is already so well/over-used
< 1289607251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Build a spire way to the top and some elevator to get there. (Or stairs?)
< 1289607251 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289607265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just for watching the monsters at night, MAKING STRATEGIC DECISIONS.
< 1289607270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, did that in creative before
< 1289607272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too hard
< 1289607277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D
< 1289607280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Omg, you should build an underground railway leading to your base.
< 1289607290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have such a system...
< 1289607291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :already
< 1289607293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So you can explore far, building rail as you go, hop on a Minecart, express way back.
< 1289607293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1289607296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All my good ideas are taken!
< 1289607309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Isn't it a pain to keep making tracks and making space for them, though?
< 1289607321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, issue with spire to max altitude: everything on ground too small to see at that height.
< 1289607338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I use a 2x2 tunnel well below the surface
< 1289607341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use good tools
< 1289607344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: eh, i built to cloud altitude
< 1289607344 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is quite fast
< 1289607347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and could see spiders on land
< 1289607353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1289607354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their red eyes a pixel big
< 1289607357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit scary :D
< 1289607358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creepers too
< 1289607363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hrrm
< 1289607366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it was in a narrow bit of water between two islands though
< 1289607369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the islands were a bit raised
< 1289607370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1289607384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you could put a workbench/furnace there too, monitor and get work done :P
< 1289607398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a natural formation in one of my games that reaches max altitude for a tree on top of a overhang
< 1289607404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that huge overhang one
< 1289607408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you saw the screenshots
< 1289607434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a furnace? Not enough. I use 8 in parallel nowdays :P
< 1289607446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But it's authentic, for those camp-on-the-roof evenings!
< 1289607457 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1289607465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I need a few chests of course. To store the ore in
< 1289607474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do the burning in bulk
< 1289607488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 64 iron per furnace (which means 8 coal)
< 1289607497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since 1 coal gives 8 operations)
< 1289607503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're polluting the Minecraftmosphere.
< 1289607509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go back to sustainable furnacing methods.
< 1289607511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I could use wood
< 1289607523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, burn chickens.
< 1289607526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're renewable!
< 1289607530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is wood
< 1289607532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually enemies are renewable aren't they?
< 1289607536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could just harvest them.
< 1289607536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1289607544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each wood gives me 1.5 operations
< 1289607553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot more annoying to calculate with
< 1289607586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nice. A huge deposit of clay
< 1289607595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a pity it is under water
< 1289607599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not on the beech
< 1289607614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *beach
< 1289607618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just DESTROY THE WATER
< 1289607623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by PUNCHING it
< 1289607645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, *goes get tons of sand to drain the area*
< 1289607654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, you drain it
< 1289607659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a lot of work
< 1289607664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but worth it for clay
< 1289607665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PUNCHING
< 1289607683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude, I don't know what mod you use, but I don't use the same one
< 1289607708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's called LSD
< 1289607712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION punches water
< 1289607716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P
< 1289607729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can punch neat little blocks of tree trunk off and have the rest float in the air, why not cubes of water?
< 1289607733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yellow text: "Thats not a moon!"
< 1289607734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1289607738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1289607740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's
< 1289607744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misquoted
< 1289607769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that yellow text is a misquoting I think
< 1289607773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be "That's no moon!" :|
< 1289607780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even i know that and i'm no star wars fan
< 1289607780 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of moons, apparently the earth has five of them
< 1289607784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's an elaborate troll
< 1289607790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: your mom has a moon
< 1289607836 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could at least try to be funny...
< 1289607843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I could also not!
< 1289607852 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas you could not
< 1289607891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*God* that's annoying. To indicate a stereo signal on NTSC-M, the mono signal has a 15.734 kHz tone added.
< 1289607906 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well above my range of hearing!
< 1289607937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can hear up to 21 kHz...
< 1289607947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's pretty damned annoying sometimes.
< 1289607968 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not filtered out by the receiver?
< 1289607988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The mono signal is completely ignored *if* you have a stereo receiver.
< 1289607991 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hums a high-pitched sound at pikhq 
< 1289607999 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made more horrifying by the fact that it's me
< 1289608006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some cheaper analog sets don't have one.
< 1289608010 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great, so they made the mono annoying so that people would upgrade
< 1289608018 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sense
< 1289608023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My TV tuner card doesn't handle stereo, either.
< 1289608024 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*makes
< 1289608029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I can fix that.
< 1289608050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my television profile in mplayer: af=sinesuppress=15734:0.001
< 1289608053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwahahah.
< 1289608065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better living through software.
< 1289608109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought analog TV was dead
< 1289608114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the US
< 1289608116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not on cable.
< 1289608280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight; bye.
< 1289608282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1289608300 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the last we heard of elliott
< 1289608597 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hue
< 1289608602 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh*
< 1289608611 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never intentionally quit the IRC
< 1289608663 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever intentionally quit the USENET?
< 1289608817 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use USENET
< 1289608875 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do you USE NET?
< 1289608896 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight; bye.
< 1289609180 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1289609232 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925351900.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289609315 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289609572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1289609788 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rant about filesystems is on Loper OS blog?
< 1289610047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/parphobia.png
< 1289610237 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is tempting me to learn Common Lisp
< 1289610258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see what you've done?!
< 1289611067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pick Scheme, and you have to pick a Scheme. Pick Common Lisp, and you have to pick a Common Lisp."
< 1289611071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/04/lisp-is-not-acceptable-lisp.html
< 1289611083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much why I abandoned the whole thing last time, iirc
< 1289612080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, link me to the rant
< 1289612101 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: The more optimistic IPv4 depletion counter estimates IANA depletion at mid-March now... :-/
< 1289612111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Why?
< 1289612113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: And link?
< 1289612136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It rejects even what little consistency and intellectual rigor there is to be found in an abomination like Common Lisp."
< 1289612142 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://inetcore.com/project/ipv4ec/en-us/index.html
< 1289612145 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... what Lisp does this person recommend?
< 1289612195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Symbolics Genera
< 1289612199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh
< 1289612226 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That AFRINIC allocation and Sprint allocating equivalent of 5x/13 really threw their models...
< 1289612236 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah.
< 1289612320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooo. 4 /8s left?
< 1289612344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the IANA pool)
< 1289612352 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, still 6. But ARIN will grab two soon...
< 1289612392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yeah. It'll be 4 once ARIN grabs that.
< 1289612506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. RIR depletion could reasonably happen in 2011 at this rate.
< 1289612546 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.45 blocks have been burned in last 30 days...
< 1289612569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wow. The pace is accelerating.
< 1289612602 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does vary quite a bit...
< 1289612662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still a lot.
< 1289612666 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 27.5 blocks are unallocated (not counting set-aside). At 1.45 blocks per month it would take about 19 months to allocate that (which would be in early 2012...).
< 1289612695 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, there's no telling what happens after "X-day"
< 1289612743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm pretty sure that the actual depletion would be inconsistent, what with the RIRs and all.
< 1289612772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will likely be a point where only Africa or some such can make new IPv4 allocations.
< 1289612930 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also LACNIC (South America) is pretty slow in allocations...
< 1289612984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, then, it's also entirely plausible that those will go quickly, as some multinationals make allocations on the remaining RIRs.
< 1289613003 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, this model estimates (if one turns off options that couple the RIRs) that LACNIC will deplete last.
< 1289613023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm.
< 1289613065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... APNIC first, I'd guess.
< 1289613072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Followed very shortly by RIPE and ARIN.
< 1289613117 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, if one couples the RIRs, this model only gives the first depletion and the final depletion (ALL non-set-aside addresses depleted).
< 1289613214 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because idea of "RIR coupling" is that once the regional RIR IPv4 department has closed shop, just start asking other RIRs...
< 1289613274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm.
< 1289613310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit goes crazy on X-day.
< 1289613627 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... IPv6 status (in /64s): IANA unallocated: 2 283 083 118 518 730 752 (99.0% free), RIR unallocated: 22 139 902 037 196 796 (97.3% free), delegated: 619 988 657 766 404.
< 1289613666 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/delegated/allocated/
< 1289613692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Estimated depletion date?
< 1289613693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1289613734 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So IPv6 address space usage (w.r.t. total available address space): 0.027%
< 1289613770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In, oh, yottaseconds.)
< 1289613817 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should intend that once I write TeXnicard, that it produces better quality cards than both Magic Set Editor and better than Wizards of the Coast does. (And then WotC should use this program, too, maybe?)
< 1289614086 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, Brazil has ridiculous amounts of IPv6 space allocated: About 45% of the allocated IPv6 space of the _entiere_ world, over 56 /48s per capita.
< 1289614135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that's just because Brazil is awesome.
< 1289614144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait
< 1289614155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're seriously going to see each and every IP address be allocated?
< 1289614166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In a few months.
< 1289614166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's going to be no before-the-last-minute rush to IPv6?
< 1289614210 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will this finally make mainstream media news?
< 1289614224 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In /48s per capita metric, Netherlands Antilles is even more ridiculous: Over 190 /48s per capita...
< 1289614262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Almost certainly.
< 1289614266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "The Internet is full."
< 1289614336 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there is Nauru: Over 217 /48s per capita...
< 1289614439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are all these IP addresses being used for, exactly?
< 1289614469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to be that the widescale NAT that people are talking about hasn't happened yet
< 1289614472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms self
< 1289614478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IPv4 addresses?
< 1289614484 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does @\ mean in WEB?
< 1289614493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the several billion Internet devices.
< 1289614524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Even widescale NATing of people could not be done before X-day, yeah.
< 1289614555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically what we're looking at is all of a sudden, everybody needs to be on IPv6 or else they can't access any new anything.
< 1289614558 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there are 123 358 751 031 296 /64s advertized.
< 1289614683 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289614717 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a bit more than there are total IPv4 addresses... And each of those about 123 trillon) is a /64...
< 1289614914 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1289615618 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmh... I think LTE should have been IPv6-only...
< 1289615636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LTE?
< 1289615639 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is absolutely no way IPv4 addresses would suffice for that... Not even close.
< 1289615645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1289615651 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cell-phone stuff
< 1289615657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1289615665 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long Term Evolution, The 3GPP's "4G" (LTE Advanced is true 4G stuff).
< 1289615672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's about a 0% chance of IPv4 being useful on it.
< 1289615683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, indeed, usable by the time it becomes the norm.
< 1289615705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does LTE have a v6 option?
< 1289615711 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would have to do NAT anyway, and if one could do that, better to do NAT64 at the same time...
< 1289615736 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better should have! I think it does...
< 1289615747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't then it needs junked.
< 1289615804 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, LTE does support IPv6.
< 1289615860 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Verizon LTE network requirements have MANDAORY IPv6 and OPTIONAL IPv4.
< 1289615902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm not into child pornography, whatever you read about me in the coming months." — Glenn Beck
< 1289615937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meþinkſ't þe man doþ proteſt too much.
< 1289615937 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289615939 0 :cal153!~cal@199.60.221.207 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289615967 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is apparently possible to meet the network requirements without any kind of IPv4 support at all.
< 1289616234 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeXnicard includes a programming language somewhat like 'dc', but arithmetic if is used, and there are some other differences too.
< 1289616298 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, first time I have seen X-day estimates less than 100 days away from time of estimate...
< 1289616307 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "X-day" means?
< 1289616378 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANA IPv4 pool exhausted.
< 1289616428 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means RIR pools start their final depletion.
< 1289616474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the day the shit hits the fan.
< 1289616477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do RIR pools finally get depeleted?
< 1289616487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that's the day the shit hits the fan?
< 1289616502 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-e
< 1289616511 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIR pool depletion also depends on how badly shit hits the fan before it...
< 1289616540 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also problem that space for larger allocations get exhausted first...
< 1289616544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After X-day, it is *possible* that there will be a mad rush to get IPv4 addresses by people who are ignorant of how this works.
< 1289616570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yes, the end of large allocations will occur well before final RIR depletion.
< 1289616625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I trying to sit on a woobly table?
< 1289616655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pretends that this is a PERFECT metaphor for the IPv4 situation
< 1289616664 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because the chair is also woobly chair, too.
< 1289616693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I stop responding, it will because I fell and died
< 1289616707 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh: Projected RIR Unallocated Address Pool Exhaustion: 12-Dec-2011  ... That other model is more optimistic about X-day but less optimistic about final depletion...
< 1289616745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weren't there estimates set in previous years?
< 1289616845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh.
< 1289616864 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would rather check estimates that are very recent, not some made years ago... All of the estimates I have looking are recomputed daily...
< 1289616898 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one is new enough to have IANA_POOL at 11 (6+5 blocks).
< 1289617083 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AFAIK, IANA_POOL is currently at 11, until ARIN gets those blocks, and then it falls to 9).
< 1289617231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that estimates years ago put X-day years ago
< 1289617256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, at least, going by the video that was shown on the estimator tool page
< 1289617737 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen some things which are IPv6 only. The gopher server for CLC-INTERCAL is IPv6 only (although there is a proxy to access it with IPv4), and I think the ASCII Star Wars movie is color only when you connect with IPv6.
< 1289617781 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.rh.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289617799 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello all.
< 1289617837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is there a CLC-INTERCAL gopher implementation/
< 1289617851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the ASCII Star Wars movie faithful to the original?
< 1289617869 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I do not know the answer to either question.
< 1289617942 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, looks like recent events have caused sharp changes in the estimates (as much as sudden ~ three months change)...
< 1289617954 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Props for crafting such a good pair of incongruous questions, though.
< 1289617982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, there is in fact a logical connection
< 1289617988 0 :TaxiiRide!~ahjdn@ool-18b843bf.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289618024 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, as long as we're arbitrarily asserting that we make sense, have a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XxDAm8skm0
< 1289618043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION picks TaxiiRide up from Starchild Numerology
< 1289618047 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd been videoblogging, then I realised that I sucked, then I figured out why I sucked.
< 1289618061 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drops TaxiiRide off at Riverview Bridge
< 1289618316 0 :TaxiiRide!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1289618636 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925351672.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289618655 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1289618941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I attempt to learn a Lisp?
< 1289619202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I attempted Scheme once
< 1289619208 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1289619209 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll play with Common Lisp
< 1289619220 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925351514.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289619846 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]
< 1289622678 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a C program supposed to do if you shift a signed number?
< 1289622712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Launch ze missiles!
< 1289622735 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which ones?
< 1289622796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes!
< 1289622806 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No!
< 1289622874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mu! (mu!)[mu!]{無}‹む›«ム»
< 1289623338 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you expect this to work?  register_value v=stack_ptr[-3]; int n=v.number; n=-(n<0?2:!n); stack_ptr[-3]=stack_ptr[n]; stack_ptr[n]=v; stack_drop(); stack_drop(); stack_drop();
< 1289623451 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like a printer supporting the Plan 9 protocol?
< 1289623758 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289627859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nostalgiacritic.blip.tv/file/3878344/ potentially fatal
< 1289627862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might die laughing
< 1289628137 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: mu
< 1289628174 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289630827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289630866 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL|coding
< 1289630896 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289631152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289635190 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289635199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1289635200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289635223 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289635796 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289635823 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289636955 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289636977 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289637474 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-13.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289638170 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-152.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289638362 0 :TLUL|coding!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLULzzz
< 1289638828 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289639115 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289639554 0 :TLULzzz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of purple smoke*
< 1289639583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott (for log reading): seems some of the yellow messages in minecraft are in Swedish :D
< 1289639958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jag känner en bot!" is there. There's also "Une baguette!", which is non-english.
< 1289640022 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1289640022 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1289640024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one is more Memeish than Swedish, though.
< 1289640084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also "Flaxkikare!" which sounds Swedishy.
< 1289640299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, there are the following special calendar-triggered yellow strings: "Happy birthday, ez!", "Happy birthday, Notch!", "Merry X-mas!" and "Happy new year!".
< 1289640321 0 :yorick!yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-gjwukcwlyvrmxxkg JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289640358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you somehow manage to make the splash file disappear from the .jar, I think it will write "missingno" as the yellow text.
< 1289640474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: http://p.zem.fi/minecraft-title-class
< 1289641605 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1289641845 0 :yorick!yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-rbrmjthicbfwymlu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289642140 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1289642150 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289642175 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1289643376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> "Jag känner en bot!" is there. There's also "Une baguette!", which is non-english. <-- and "Herregud!"
< 1289643431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> There is also "Flaxkikare!" which sounds Swedishy. <-- sounds like possible slang to me. Or jargon. Swedish sounding yes but not a word I ever heard.
< 1289643472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Flaxkikaren är en apparat som i stort hjälper seriefiguren Bobo att överumpla alla sina fiender. Med bara ett par "skruv", samt ramsan Vrid ringarna mot max, så dom bildar ordet FLAX!, kan Bobo villig ett ögonblick gripa sig var som helst (inom kikarens synfält)."
< 1289643477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a fictional thing, then.
< 1289643521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1289643563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard about that comic figure
< 1289644790 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289644832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wtf: a floating island *of sand*
< 1289644944 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1289645715 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289646512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's interesting. What happens if you remove a bottom block from it?
< 1289646777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it starts falling all all the other blocks of it too
< 1289646786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1289646792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as a chain effect
< 1289646804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some dirt and a few sand blocks on the other side of that dirt too
< 1289646816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sand that was "shielded" by the dirt didn't fall
< 1289646822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The physics go all "hey, what are you doing up there in the sky?"
< 1289646855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I seen a lot of floating gravel in caverns with the post-halloween map generator.
< 1289646865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which acts the same way
< 1289646930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and the leaves of trees don't disappear for me when the wood does. I thought that was fixed?
< 1289646939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err s/wood/logs/
< 1289646976 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1289646989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, trees have been a bit wonky always. There are some multiplayer-only bugs there too, I think.
< 1289647033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case I guess when they do disappear, they tend to do it a bit randomly.
< 1289647068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, left for 10 days (in game time)...
< 1289647076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly as I left it
< 1289647077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the multiplayer game I tend to hack down the leaves too, since that will generate saplings, and then I can replant them.
< 1289647096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left it as a cube of leaves in the air to make it easy to spot if it started going away
< 1289647185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In earlier games, I've managed to lose a couple of mines.
< 1289647202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once used some of the cart-drawing tools to relocate my place.
< 1289647292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was this in a multiplayer game: http://zem.fi/~fis/mctree.png
< 1289647562 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@i-41.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289647951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yellow text "Don't look directly at the bugs!" XD
< 1289647958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott (for log reading) ^
< 1289647987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hehe
< 1289648035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and I tend to hack them down as well, but it is annoying when there are some high ones you can't reach without building some temporary stairs or such
< 1289648051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those I want to go away automatically
< 1289648076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also: uh, can you build above the clouds?
< 1289648091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that screenshot looks like it
< 1289648122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> In earlier games, I've managed to lose a couple of mines. <-- lose how?
< 1289648400 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289648411 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh, seems like reeds block fluids. And they are fireproof.
< 1289648414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1289648422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can walk through them
< 1289648428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this might be interesting
< 1289648596 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289650448 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289651086 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289651326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, you can go up something like ten blocks above the top of of the clouds.
< 1289651372 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "lose" as in walk away, never finding my way back.
< 1289651504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make reed-airlocks, I think; OTOH you can do the same with doors or ladders.
< 1289652612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289652615 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1289652905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, Emacs has started inserting junk when I open files.
< 1289652909 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-7-152.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289652934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :">1;2403;0c" appears at the start of every file I open, for some reason.
< 1289653065 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289653131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1289653137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289653155 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1289653521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's pretty bizarre
< 1289653528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could check your .emacs for weirdnesses
< 1289653545 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I had a few keyboard translations.
< 1289654375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks vaguely terminal-codeish.
< 1289655497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1289656561 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289656915 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289657117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Apple are busy confusing everyone by open-sourcing Java for OS X (which was previously Apple-proprietary)
< 1289657728 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289658585 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289658779 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1289659788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, http://returnvalues.useperl.at/ is a vaguely interesting site
< 1289659815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it enumerates unusual ways to write boolean true in Perl (modules have to return boolean true upon initialisation in order to avoid errors)
< 1289659829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pretty much any string or number is true as a boolean (except '' and 0)
< 1289660630 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289660698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57:39 <Sgeo> http://nostalgiacritic.blip.tv/file/3878344/ potentially fatal
< 1289660700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57:39 <Sgeo> http://nostalgiacritic.blip.tv/#
< 1289660704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no #
< 1289660705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57:39 <Sgeo> http://nostalgiacritic
< 1289660707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57:39 <Sgeo> nostalgiacritic
< 1289660709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57:39 <Sgeo> nostalgia
< 1289660741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:34:40 <Sgeo> elliott, link me to the rant
< 1289660746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, fuck you, find things for yourself for once.
< 1289660756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I never said to look at the Loper OS site, Phantom_Hoover did.
< 1289660804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:19:18 <fizzie> "Jag kÃ¤nner en bot!" is there. There's also "Une baguette!", which is non-english.
< 1289660805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:20:24 <fizzie> The first one is more Memeish than Swedish, though.
< 1289660809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed; now that is in my head.
< 1289660876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:15:30 <Vorpal> fizzie, oh and the leaves of trees don't disappear for me when the wood does. I thought that was fixed?
< 1289660876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:15:39 <Vorpal> err s/wood/logs/
< 1289660879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean when you punch them?
< 1289660884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't disappear for me.
< 1289660897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seemingly not.
< 1289660949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, technically, it lists all the ones used on CPAN
< 1289660959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, boring ones filtered out
< 1289660987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for the record, that site (which I've seen before) is terribly formatted on a wide browser
< 1289661094 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-52.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289661132 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1289661165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'end of WWW::Ohloh::API::Language'	2	WWW::Ohloh::API::Message
< 1289661166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		WWW::Ohloh::API::Language
< 1289662058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they should when not supported by a tree
< 1289662081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not for me.
< 1289662093 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> And "lose" as in walk away, never finding my way back. <-- I mark my trail with torches when I explore
< 1289662107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Incidentally, it's very useful IMO to carry around a few blocks of dirt to start off with, so you can elevate yourself to the top of a tree.
< 1289662120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nor for me. But they are supposed to, after a while.
< 1289662127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, after a while
< 1289662127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random delay
< 1289662128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long?
< 1289662139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, the next day most should be gone at least
< 1289662148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i never stay in one place for that long :)
< 1289662168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some probably will start going away within a few minutes (real world time)
< 1289662178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, a minute or so
< 1289662196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, elevate to top of tree. Err why?
< 1289662217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To punch all of it.
< 1289662223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I suppose you could do it from below, but where's the fun in that?
< 1289662228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well depends on how high the tree is
< 1289662235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just realised you could do it from below :P)
< 1289662269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I generally farm them with a ceiling (note: make sure to add lots of light, otherwise the saplings won't grow).
< 1289662282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way they will never be too tall to reach from ground
< 1289662283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I just use wild trees.
< 1289662347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not enough of them where my base is. Biomes near my base: desert, savanna, desert, plains, desert :P
< 1289662378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that is for the game I started with the new generator
< 1289662414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the older game (the one with all those weird blocks on the map) is somewhat better
< 1289662565 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289662986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> ais523: for the record, that site (which I've seen before) is terribly formatted on a wide browser <--- you'll hate what Wikia did with their skin, then
< 1289663003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the formatting change was so bad that there were huge protests, so they actually changed the ToU to prevent people changing the skin back
< 1289663004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hell, I hated the *previous* skin.
< 1289663013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a result a whole load of wikis left in droves
< 1289663019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This one is too bad to even have a superlative to describe its badness with.
< 1289663024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the previous skin was a paragon of beauty compared to this one
< 1289663030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Indeed.
< 1289663031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bonus points, it's fixed-width
< 1289663047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at around 600 pixels for the content area
< 1289663050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't mind fixed-width text, as long as it's in ems.
< 1289663059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course not
< 1289663063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell whether this one is (my browser zooms everything no matter what).
< 1289663071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it seems not.
< 1289663089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Incidentally, the *only* things I've heard about Wikia in years have been them being evil.
< 1289663127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: First with Sgeo's Creatures Wiki -- they bought up creatureswiki.com and I think another TLD, redirected them to the wikia, and refused (!) to give them up to the admins. Then the skin change...
< 1289663130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed; they started out decent and got progressively more evil as time went on
< 1289663143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If "Creatures" and "wiki" weren't generic, they could be sued to hell and back.
< 1289663151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably still could with their obvious intent.
< 1289663167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack.wikia.com has departed to nethackwiki.com, now, skin changed to Vector
< 1289663172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're abandoning the old site
< 1289663173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1289663175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mention this so Sgeo knows)
< 1289663177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He knows.
< 1289663180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1289663183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He's an admin on the new one for whatever reason.
< 1289663186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, it's historic!"
< 1289663196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they copied the user DB and password hash DB over
< 1289663198 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-52.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289663199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And every wiki I've seen that's left -- including ones way before this -- have had their leaving covered up and Wikia trying to keep contributors coming to theirs.
< 1289663202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very disturbing.
< 1289663216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm a little concerned that wikia even leaves password hash DBs open, even if they're properly hashed and salted...)
< 1289663247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The Creatures Wiki were going to put the notice in their sitenotice, but then Wikia disabled editing sitenotices, so they can't do that now.
< 1289663265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if that's why they disabled sitenotices?
< 1289663275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was by accident, originally, at least that's what they said it was
< 1289663319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are switching over all the default skins (for anon users) to our new skin  "Monaco" this week." -- latest thread on Creatures Wiki's main page talk, April 2008
< 1289663336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WoWWiki have already moved, and that's gotta be like 95% of Wikia's traffic right there.
< 1289663348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wait, they haven't moved quite yet.
< 1289663355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: over 10%, apparently
< 1289663361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they've decided to.
< 1289663363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're in the process of moving
< 1289663376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Monaco >>> Oasis
< 1289663384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Indeed. Still pretty bad though.
< 1289663395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could tolerate Monaco with AdBlock on and turned to maximum (Wikia has some of the most obnoxious ads I've ever seen)
< 1289663412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bonus points, Oasis apparently causes health problems
< 1289663415 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1289663429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certain sorts of asymmetric patterns can cause eyestrain in various people, leading to headaches
< 1289663436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm a member of a small wiki (two hundred pages or so) that Angela actually *made a personal message* to, asking us if we'd like to move to Wikia, in 2007 or 2008, and actually replied to it when everyone was like "No thanks this is fine".
< 1289663441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing that never happened.
< 1289663468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually, closer to a thousand articles now.
< 1289663483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not convinced Wikia was evil in 2007
< 1289663491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was February 2008. Just checked.
< 1289663492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just evilised over time
< 1289663498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So only a few months from Monaco.
< 1289663524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apparently it's because they were launching a Network(TM) for sites of general topic similar to $general_topic_of_this_one
< 1289663551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, and then came back to ask again in September 2009!
< 1289663628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikia are evil? I knew it!
< 1289663634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your small wiki in question have ads?
< 1289663646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's enough reason to not move to Wikia, I think, if you don't
< 1289663655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No way that you could have a company run by an objectivist be nice!
< 1289663800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't
< 1289663805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it also has a decent sysop :P
< 1289663848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "WYWIWYG" --Angela, before fixing it immediately after
< 1289663859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to twist that typo into an anti-wikia acronym
< 1289663878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikia: Yes, We'll Integrate Wikis Y? G?
< 1289663878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what you want is what you get" is the obvious reading to me, which is more or less the opposite of Wikia nowadays
< 1289663974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I don't even remember "Quartz"
< 1289663991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, it was so horrible that no wiki didn't switch to monobook
< 1289664077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, YouTube has been throwing up weirder and weirder errors as time goes on
< 1289664095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<YouTube> 500 Internal Server Error Sorry, something went wrong. A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation. If you see them, show them this information:
< 1289664097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wrt the eye strain: wikia banned an optometrist for stating that
< 1289664102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just hilarious
< 1289664103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by a huge block of base64
< 1289664105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed
< 1289664110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> followed by a huge block of base64
< 1289664112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google do this too
< 1289664120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure it's all the CGI-ish parameters, and the like
< 1289664122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's a Google error rather than YouTube error, then
< 1289664138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "highly trained monkeys" is YouTube.
< 1289664146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Google I think it links you to a support team where you can report a problem and include that.
< 1289664156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen something like 10 different failure modes from YouTube over the last month or so
< 1289664283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd like a userscript of some sort that turns all YouTube links into a centred-vertically-and-horizontally HTML 5 version of the video on the highest quality setting and strips away everything else.
< 1289664291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Flash player is terrible, the comments are beyond inane, everything else is fluff.
< 1289664311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quietube comes close but doesn't do the HTML5.
< 1289664714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:35:01 <Ilari> Warning: The more optimistic IPv4 depletion counter estimates IANA depletion at mid-March now... :-/
< 1289664715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh joy
< 1289664837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested in what will happen when IPv4 runs out
< 1289664863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there are sane YouTube commentors, who often manage to parody the stupid ones
< 1289664876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw one where the author of a video managed to reverse a likely comment before it even came up, which was hilarious
< 1289664886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Current predictions are: chaos. Even though the RIRs and whatnot still have to get exhausted, the models predict that in a year or two at most...
< 1289664898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nobody's exactly scrambling to upgrade their infrastructure to be IPv6 ready.
< 1289664924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to work out if it'll be harmful chaos or interesting chaos
< 1289664932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm hoping for the second
< 1289664937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would predict some economic effects outside the Internet ("We can't add another machine." "Why not?" "We don't have a number to give it.").
< 1289664946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But not *too* many as there'll be a lot of NATting anyway. Still...
< 1289664979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mainstream news coverage is likely to be very distorted ("We're out of Internet! Providers are scrambling to switch to the NEW Internet, with more space! BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THAT RUNS TRY? Let's go over to our reporter, a homeless bum we found five minutes ago screaming 'Eyepee veesix'.")
< 1289664999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And netizens are likely to scramble to the nearest rescue boat^W^WIPv6 provider.
< 1289665347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:08:57 <zzo38> I have seen some things which are IPv6 only. The gopher server for CLC-INTERCAL is IPv6 only (although there is a proxy to access it with IPv4), and I think the ASCII Star Wars movie is color only when you connect with IPv6.
< 1289665347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:10:37 <Sgeo> Why is there a CLC-INTERCAL gopher implementation/
< 1289665358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Please explain the situation to Sgeo.
< 1289665398 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289665528 0 :Rebel-du-Sang!~rebeldusa@83.2.42.101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289665832 0 :Rebel-du-Sang!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Odszed�!Poczu� zapach krwi...
< 1289666986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: If you don't point me to a mouse with three actual buttons *and* a scroll wheel I'll do something terrible.
< 1289667029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=2545791 "Great, now where is the scroll wheel?"
< 1289667178 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In the multiplayer game of ours, there's a largeish common mine; at the bottom, pretty near the bedrock (five blocks or so up) there's one piece of dirt, and then a maybe 6x6 rectangular shaft all the way up to the top of the map, and a glass ceiling; and on that one block of dirt a largeish tree grows.
< 1289667211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh?
< 1289667229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess the reason is simply "because it is cool"?
< 1289667271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my mouse has 3 buttons and a scrollwheel
< 1289667287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've torch-marked the way to the habited regions from the spawn-point of that game, too; got tired of having to deduce it, even though it isn't far.
< 1289667288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tiltable scrollwheel even
< 1289667337 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how does it work in multiplayer with regards to inventory when connecting?
< 1289667343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you keep it from last time or?
< 1289667385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kept, yes. I don't know whether it's saved client-side or server-side; maybe server.
< 1289667416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny thing: server doesn't track the "health" of objects either, so if you drop your diamond pick and re-pick it up, the 'durability' thing will be reset. So you can use it indefinitely.
< 1289667439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, can't connect to minecraft.net at the moment.
< 1289667494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same
< 1289667570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, is there any multiplayer server that is good for someone who never did multiplayer in minecraft before? Free to build what you want, and not some special-generated game map style.
< 1289667604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know: I haven't played on anything else than our private thing.
< 1289667618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "our"?
< 1289667636 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For fizzies only.
< 1289667683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's named after an office room of the CS building at the university. I guess there's just me and sometimes ineiros there. I have heard rumours of a third guy, who supposedly built a thing, but I don't know who he/she would be.
< 1289667740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> elliott, my mouse has 3 buttons and a scrollwheel
< 1289667745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptops do not count
< 1289667780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In rare occasions, most likely due to glitches, nether biomes can be found in the normal world. " Heh, that sounds pretty strange. (Haven't had it happen.)
< 1289667811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, they appear as huge blocks, because of the walls and ceiling.
< 1289667819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not a laptop
< 1289667827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then what model?
< 1289667835 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Most likely due to glitches" is such a meaningless reason :P
< 1289667839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (I thought you meant a TrackPoint.)
< 1289667852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on the bottom of the mouse it says "Microsoft Comfort Optical Mouse 3000 v1.0"
< 1289667895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Scroll wheels do *not* count as third buttons.
< 1289667897 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dood, the v1.1s are SO much better.
< 1289667904 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why not?
< 1289667905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, it has a button on the side
< 1289667906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well
< 1289667917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course the scrollwheel is clickable as well
< 1289667923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I realise that. EVERY mouse has that.
< 1289667934 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is a third button obviously
< 1289667940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *It is not what I want.*
< 1289667946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is it you want then
< 1289667960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not a mouse with 3 button + scrollwheel that is tiltable and clickable?
< 1289667965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Three actual buttons and the scroll wheel jammed in 4D space or wherever; I won't specify further than that because other people can design mice better than me.
< 1289667966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buttons*
< 1289667984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I use the middle button extensively, and always have three fingers on the mouse, one for each button. With a scroll wheel, my middle finger is elevated, which is very uncomfortable, and furthermore, the button is harder to click than the other two.
< 1289667992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh. So placing that extra button on the side under the thumb doesn't count?
< 1289667996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is even more uncomfortable when I scroll with my middle finger but keep the other fingers down.)
< 1289667997 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what mine has
< 1289668007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can buy this thing, which has three actual buttons and *two* scroll wheels, but they're in the side: http://ergo.contourdesign.com/uploads/images/products/large/Black%20CMO%20front%20angle.jpg
< 1289668020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably not. I would be willing to consider it if the mouse is very well-designed.
< 1289668021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> Dood, the v1.1s are SO much better. <-- what XD
< 1289668028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, seem that. No thanks :P
< 1289668031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no one else hold a mouse like that :P
< 1289668044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://trendsupdates.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/OpenOffice_Mouse.jpg
< 1289668045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two fingers then move one to scroll wheel as needed
< 1289668053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes they do.
< 1289668058 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hey, I do the three-finger thing too.
< 1289668062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It is the standard Unix mouse grip. Of course, that is now extinct.
< 1289668071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to Windows and, well, X11 WIMP UIs.
< 1289668085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Macintosh isn't to blame as it had one button at the time.)
< 1289668096 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Of course, the equivalent Microsoft Office mouse would have no buttons on top, and a slideout panel with dozens of buttons with obscure labels.
< 1289668102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://trendsupdates.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/OpenOffice_Mouse.jpg  <-- two wtf: 1) the product 2) the name
< 1289668107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be photoshopped
< 1289668129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's now the WarMouse Meta since OpenOffice complained that it isn't approved.
< 1289668131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You suck at getting jokes more than usual today :P
< 1289668137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not a joke.
< 1289668138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really isn't.
< 1289668144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why that name
< 1289668149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was designed to be useful with word processors apparently. They now market it as a gaming mouse.
< 1289668149 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...?!?!?!?!?!
< 1289668152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never have to move to the toolbar, etc.
< 1289668154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://warmouse.com/
< 1289668156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1289668167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.boingboing.net/images/oomousep3.jpg
< 1289668187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you actually hit those buttons reliably?
< 1289668191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It is a great unintentional joke at OpenOffice's expense, though :P
< 1289668193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You must get this mouse, it's so "you": http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/75555_01.jpg
< 1289668196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Genetic deformities.
< 1289668200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 12 fingers is preferable.
< 1289668203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1289668211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (In-breeding may be required.)
< 1289668213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, small ones (unless the mouse is HUGE)
< 1289668223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ...what, exactly, is so "me" about that? :-P
< 1289668240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, you know, you're obviously such a World of Warcraft guy!
< 1289668246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally.
< 1289668253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oxford, England, June 28, 2010 - WarMouse today announced that its much-anticipated multi-button laser joystick mouse is now shipping. With a patented design featuring 18 buttons, an analog joystick, and a 5600-CPI laser sensor, the Meta has been well received by gamers and commercial software developers alike. Containing twice as much memory as the original Macintosh, the WarMouse(R) Meta holds 3,072 commands in 64 mouse modes, allowing the mous
< 1289668253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e to completely change its functionality on the fly according to the active application.
< 1289668256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $//
< 1289668260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are these people in Oxford?
< 1289668261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that mouse looks uncomfortable
< 1289668268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But it has rune buttons.
< 1289668273 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders when Blizzard is going to sue Minecraft for having a name ending in "craft"
< 1289668275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they flunk Mouse Design and not bother to relocate?
< 1289668291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how there's 64 mouse modes.
< 1289668293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... why.
< 1289668301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hands-on reviews of the mouse from various technology sites have been uniformly positive:"
< 1289668302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also why does it need to be in the mouse
< 1289668309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it is better done in software on the computer
< 1289668324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to believe their excerpt of http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/03/warmouse-meta-review/ is representative.
< 1289668328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, that's WarMouse too.
< 1289668329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems.
< 1289668340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it's just a comparison shot.
< 1289668359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1289668362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The review is negative :P
< 1289668366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# "There's no doubt that the $79.99 Meta with its 512K of memory is the most advanced mouse we've ever seen - each of its 18 buttons along with their double-click functions can be configured for different applications, and its analog joystick can be customized to perform eight different commands.... The WarMouse Meta goes where no mouse has gone before." - Engadget]]
< 1289668370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Context ahoy
< 1289668398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/97047_01.jpg -- it has "Onboard Memory 64Kb", because that's obviously the main criterion when choosing a mouse. You don't want your mouse to run out of memory.
< 1289668406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The WarMouse Meta goes where no mouse has gone before. However, at the end of the day we can't help but wonder who could possibly remember how to use so many buttons on a single gadget."
< 1289668419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "5600DPI twin laser" and "rapid fire mode".
< 1289668420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could make the display print out the memory.
< 1289668425 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how to use all the keys on my keyboard.
< 1289668427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or run a shell on it.
< 1289668444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can independently configure the resolution on the X and Y axes, too.
< 1289668459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1289668463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now point me to a mouse with three buttons.
< 1289668502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that one Razer mouse which has a numpad in the side, too.
< 1289668505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/94345_01.jpg
< 1289668508 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit warmousey.
< 1289668526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "Razer Naga MMOG Mouse".)
< 1289668625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do they do the shortcuts in the mouse
< 1289668627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, no, actually, get this! http://www.verkkokauppa.com/files/images/85/2_118146-450x450.jpeg   -- it's obviously made for cyborgs like you, that can reconfigure their hand.
< 1289668634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely doing it on the computer is better
< 1289668646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be mapped in the input layer of any sane system.
< 1289668658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure evdev could do anything that it could and more
< 1289668684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, it shouldn't be hard to get it to work some other way
< 1289668688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wat.
< 1289668698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't make heads or tails out of that last one.
< 1289668709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, photoshopped
< 1289668710 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1289668713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They're for Windows and you know it and you're just trolling.
< 1289668714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No.
< 1289668716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Razer.
< 1289668723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razer mice are... usually a bit saner than that.
< 1289668724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's the official product image at a web-store, I wouldn't think so.
< 1289668731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would it be hard to do it on the computer for windows?
< 1289668735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably.
< 1289668736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's actually "Saitek Cyborg R.A.T 7", but still.
< 1289668738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh
< 1289668749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're even advertising a similar model on the homepage: http://www.razerzone.com/
< 1289668754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, saitek is usually saner than that
< 1289668754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I meant the mousepad one.
< 1289668761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, okay. Right.
< 1289668763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Vorpal meant the other one.
< 1289668781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant the one fizzie linked
< 1289668783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could be they're showing the R.A.T in its opened-up configuration, and those things are for adjusting the weights or such.
< 1289668786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He linked two.
< 1289668791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> elliott: No, no, actually, get this! http://www.verkkokauppa.com/files/images/85/2_118146-450x450.jpeg   -- it's obviously made for cyborgs like you, that can reconfigure their hand.
< 1289668792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one
< 1289668798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Most likely, but I'd prefer not to think that :)
< 1289668821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet still nobody has linked me to a three-button mouse with a scroll wheel except Vorpal, whose entry is questionable.
< 1289668822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gogogo
< 1289668838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why is my entry questionable?
< 1289668858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because the third button is on the thumb. I'll still consider it, but I'm skeptical.
< 1289668879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It still doesn't let me have my three-finger hold comfortably, due to the elevated scroll wheel.
< 1289668911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you want the scrollwheel under the thumb or such instead?
< 1289668925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, if you want a scrollwheel you have to put it somewhere :P
< 1289668953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which is a decision I will leave to the designers of these mice, who are probably better at thinking of things like that and I.
< 1289668984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw my mouse is very comfortable. The first one of that model that I bought lasted about 5 years or so. The replacement I bought was the same model. Because the mouse is awesome.
< 1289668997 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 5 years is more than any other mouse I had lasted
< 1289669001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's another "vertical mouse" that I guess has a layout a bit like you want, except it's turned all sideways: http://www.evoluent.com/vm3_med.jpg
< 1289669030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like three buttons with a scroll wheel between 1/2, and one extra buttony-looking thing "below" 3, and then the whole thing has been tilted sideways.
< 1289669043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I know of that one.
< 1289669049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not convinced it would be comfortable to scroll with.
< 1289669056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially that topmost button.
< 1289669076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one more button behind it. But yes, it does look a bit suspicious.
< 1289669082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if that was a boat, there would be lifeboats leaving it now XD
< 1289669090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/boat/ship/
< 1289669121 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend who swears by the Evoluent mouse.
< 1289669122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The goal of the GNU PDF project is to develop and provide a free, high-quality, complete, and portable set of libraries and programs to manage the PDF file format (ISO 32000), and associated technologies."
< 1289669131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, he's German, so y'know, don't trust him :P
< 1289669132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how they completely ignore poppler.
< 1289669146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what license does poppler have?
< 1289669148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Bah! Ergonomics can go fuck itself.
< 1289669163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GPL2.
< 1289669167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But it can't write PDFs.
< 1289669176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eh. What about pdftex?
< 1289669179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it do it
< 1289669188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: manually
< 1289669194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and cups? and so on?
< 1289669206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: manually or via postscript, I would guess.
< 1289669218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Skype is seducing free software users into using proprietary software, often two users at a time."
< 1289669221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software threesome.
< 1289669235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I take back my "numpad in a mouse" comment earlier, because some company called Sandberg makes an *actual* numbad that is also a mouse: http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/77747_01.jpg
< 1289669235 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, via postscript or manually are the sane ways afaik. pdf is not very editable.
< 1289669246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Thus why they want a library.
< 1289669264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hardest thing to use as a mouse ever :P
< 1289669266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right. So base it off cups code?
< 1289669280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I imagine CUPS code is very ugly.
< 1289669285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It even has an "Excel" button.
< 1289669293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GNU General Public License, GNU Lesser General Public License, with proprietary exceptions for software that links against CUPS to run on Apple operating systems"
< 1289669298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Niiiice...
< 1289669300 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's everything an accountant needs in one box :P
< 1289669305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: CUPS' license sure is nice.
< 1289669316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> elliott: It even has an "Excel" button. <-- where?
< 1289669318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anything that makes accountants' lives harder is good enough for me!
< 1289669321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: On the mouse...
< 1289669323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/77747_01.jpg
< 1289669325 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh up there
< 1289669333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, missed it first time around
< 1289669333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CUPS is the standards-based, open source printing system developed by Apple Inc. for Mac OS® X and other UNIX®-like operating systems."
< 1289669347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Todo: Avoid CUPS.
< 1289669350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's some sort of mode-selector in the side for numpadness/mouseness.
< 1289669362 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Easy, just avoid printing :P
< 1289669381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I do that already, I don't believe in paper. But I would like a nice black-and-white laser one to use for reading papers...
< 1289669394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, apple bought the original company that produced it iirc
< 1289669428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah. And the source code.
< 1289669435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1289669435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the license though?
< 1289669436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In February 2007, Apple Inc. hired chief developer Michael Sweet and purchased the CUPS source code."
< 1289669440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "GNU General Public License, GNU Lesser General Public License, with proprietary exceptions for software that links against CUPS to run on Apple operating systems"
< 1289669442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Like I said.
< 1289669446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which is just beyond terrible.
< 1289669454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1289669457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[CUPSTM is provided under the GNU General Public License ("GPL") and GNU Library General Public License ("LGPL"), Version 2, with exceptions for Apple operating systems and the OpenSSL toolkit. A copy of the exceptions and licenses follow this introduction.]]
< 1289669463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Exception for OpenSSL too! Fuck that.
< 1289669481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if anything else can print on a Linux system :-P
< 1289669482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm
< 1289669488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ppd?
< 1289669491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1289669493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Things I don't need, hypothetically: A web interface.)
< 1289669494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lp
< 1289669505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or hell, a queue. A printer queue is a shell script.
< 1289669506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old line printer stuff
< 1289669515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lp0 on fire
< 1289669520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1289669529 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why Apple chose to release that under GPL ... they hate GPL so much ...
< 1289669532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1289669542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But yes, I suppose Linux probably does still support lp, at least until they decide it's not modern enough.
< 1289669546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we all get to use CUPS!
< 1289669550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because it was already GPL.
< 1289669557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's not Apple code originally.
< 1289669573 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not? Then how did they get the exceptions in for linking against Apple ...
< 1289669577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And I doubt the lead developer would have joined Apple to work on it if they said "and change the license, too".
< 1289669589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I imagine they rather wanted probably the only person who knew the codebase intimately.
< 1289669602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ lp
< 1289669603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lp: Error - no default destination available.
< 1289669604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I have lp.
< 1289669613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but it's CUPS lp.
< 1289669624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ dpkg-query -S `which lp`
< 1289669624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cups-client: /usr/bin/lp
< 1289669625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1289669630 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289669641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm sure I'd get /dev/lp0 if I plugged a printer in. Right? Haha, unlikely, I'll bet.
< 1289669643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially a USB printer.
< 1289669658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I could TALK TO IT! Manually!
< 1289669662 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Idonno, looks like Apple purchased the source code, and they're nothing if not douchebags, so it's surprising they didn't relicense it.
< 1289669676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 'cuz they hired the lead developer.
< 1289669684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Who licensed it under the GPL. Presumably on purpose.
< 1289669697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "aptitude install lpr" will probably get you the old spooling system, then you can plug in external programs as drivers into printcap.
< 1289669706 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I see that, but that still seems surprisingly lacking in douchebaggery for Apple ...
< 1289669711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Hi, we want to buy your code and hire you to work on it." vs "Hi, we want to buy your code, completely relicense it, and then hire you to work on it so we can release it with a license you don't want."
< 1289669723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Alternatively, "lprng" for what I think used to be the de-facto default before CUPS.)
< 1289669724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Note: Apple weren't nearly as douchebaggy until recently.
< 1289669724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are tearing me apart, elliott
< 1289669729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wat.
< 1289669744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LPRng is a printing system compatible with the Berkeley printing system. It provides printer spooling and network print server functionality using the Line Printer Daemon protocol.
< 1289669744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an open-source project hosted on SourceForge and implemented by many open-source Unix-like operating systems. LPRng was abandoned by its author in early 2005, then picked back up by new developers in October 2006.[1] A new release was made available in December 2006 [2] (LPRng-3.8.29 RC 1).
< 1289669758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What if I want SysV lp? :-P
< 1289669773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Didn't they release the SysV code?
< 1289669779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that SysV was any good.
< 1289669788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lpr appears to be the BSD one, indeed.
< 1289669788 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, watch The Room
< 1289669792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, that.
< 1289669813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This is the BSD printer spooler and associated utilities. You can use this for
< 1289669813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : local and remote printers.
< 1289669824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# lp -- the user command to print
< 1289669824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# lpstat -- shows the current print queue
< 1289669824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cancel -- deletes a job from the print queue
< 1289669835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes System V to create commands for what are literally filesystem operations.
< 1289669865 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean commands like "rm" and "touch"? :P
< 1289669876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean duplicates. :P
< 1289669899 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By making them commands, they can potentially (not actually) change how things are stored *shrugs*
< 1289669907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The filesystem is an abstract interface.
< 1289669912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know if anyone's packaged it; all Linux systems (in the pre-CUPS era, anyway) I met used BSD lpr-derived things.
< 1289669914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's like saying "Well, yeah, but they could change their public API!"
< 1289669926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Filesystem hierarchy != literal directory structure, as was the original intention of Unix, as is implemented in Plan 9 :-P
< 1289669927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1289669936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lp: $ cat my-foo.ps >/dev/printer0/new
< 1289669941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lpstat: $ ls /dev/printer0
< 1289669945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lists 0, 1, 2, ... new)
< 1289669950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cancel: $ rm /dev/printer0/N
< 1289669951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that.
< 1289669957 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, you're not happy that SysV wasn't Plan 9?
< 1289669964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yep.
< 1289669967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Aren't you?
< 1289669987 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope!
< 1289670009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, you *do* wear clashing colours on purpose, so it's possible you just have terrible taste overall :P
< 1289670098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jimbo: Just because you've made a new photo doesn't mean I'm going to fucking give you any money.
< 1289670110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please read this appeal from our founder and then donate to Wikimedia UK using the form opposite."
< 1289670112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rephrased:
< 1289670123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you look him at his soulful eyes and not give him any money!
< 1289670124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please scroll down to the bottom of the page, and then scroll up, because why should spatial order reflect reading order???"
< 1289670145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070105052649/wikiality/images/d/d8/Captain_Jimbo_on_the_SS_Glamour_Photography.jpg
< 1289670160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They should put that on the donation banners.
< 1289670209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> fizzie: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070105052649/wikiality/images/d/d8/Captain_Jimbo_on_the_SS_Glamour_Photography.jpg <-- photoshopped or?
< 1289670214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, real.
< 1289670223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, different Jimbo then?
< 1289670226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1289670233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then whaaat?
< 1289670238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Before starting Wikipedia, Jimbo founded Bomis, a dot-com.
< 1289670240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[The rings are currently categorized broadly as "Babe", "Entertainment", "Sports", "Adult", "Science fiction", and "Other".[2] The "Adult", "Babe", and "Entertainment" categories are the most frequently updated and the most popular.]]
< 1289670245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1289670253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So, uh, he basically ran a softcore pornish portal.
< 1289670259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070105052649/wikiality/images/d/d8/Captain_Jimbo_on_the_SS_Glamour_Photography.jpg
< 1289670278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which was advertising or, uh, god knows what.
< 1289670283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Bomis is best known for having supported the creation of the free-content online encyclopedia projects Nupedia and Wikipedia. Bomis hosted Nupedia in 2000, and Larry Sanger was hired to manage and edit that project. A year into the development of Nupedia, Bomis decided the project was too expensive[citation needed], and a so called "wiki" was set up as a way to solicit low-cost new drafts for Nupedia.]]
< 1289670295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Wikipedia: Because it's cheaper.
< 1289670306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for a philanthropic desire to spread global knowledge :P
< 1289670324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1289670437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have any of WP's detractors ever actually made a site that addresses their criticisms of it?
< 1289670456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Citizendium is the closest, and we all know what happened there...
< 1289670493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "You don't like it, make something better!" is a phrase common among complete morons.
< 1289670499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has Roger Ebert ever made a movie?
< 1289670545 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When "something better" has _manifestly_ never been created, it throws some doubt on their claims.
< 1289670571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not.
< 1289670580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wikipedia sucks!" does not mean "Wikipedia sucks, and we could easily fix it!".
< 1289670583 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1289670594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a very strange view of criticism in general.
< 1289670612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, saying "X sucks and there's nothing that can be done about it" is completely unhelpful.
< 1289670612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://xiatek.org/?p=139
< 1289670623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "X sucks and I don't know what to do about it".
< 1289670666 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better, if you're actually trying to think of things to do about it.
< 1289670677 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289670681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Switch to a different display server! (Eh, eh, eh.)
< 1289670692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I considered making that joke.
< 1289670715 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289670781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1289670857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now to try and make a world with seed 0 :P
< 1289670869 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I won't use that thing
< 1289670873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much work
< 1289670879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's the point
< 1289670884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, you have to download it and say "mono foo.exe".
< 1289670891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm more interested in built up worlds.
< 1289670893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The point is that it's like a screenshot except you can move around it...
< 1289670898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're meant to copy real seeds from actual worlds.
< 1289670900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is what it does.
< 1289670913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also you have to "Click several buttons and then tick a checkbox", that's pretty bothersome.
< 1289670914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i.e., see something interesting, share a 50-byte seed rather than a big png, and let other people see it and move around it too.
< 1289670918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep. But doesn't help when you want to show off your minecart system
< 1289670924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Totally.
< 1289670942 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DF?
< 1289670952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: MC.
< 1289670969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's all just speak in abbreviations from now on. Uh, I mean, LAJSIAFNO.
< 1289671034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ITIAGIIT, THCBSA
< 1289671043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lawl, it doesn't see dotfiles
< 1289671051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to tell it where ~/.minecraft is
< 1289671068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gtk#?
< 1289671079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: winforms; sudo aptitude install libmono-winforms2.0-cli
< 1289671081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Vorpal: Yeah, you have to download it and say "mono foo.exe". <-- also need to install mono then
< 1289671085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes you do.
< 1289671097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you use GNOME, you already have Mono.
< 1289671132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no. I have gnome and not mono.
< 1289671143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't install the parts that depend on mono
< 1289671150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No you don't. You have part of GNOME.
< 1289671151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is iirc some search thingy
< 1289671157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, correct.
< 1289671158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple components depend on it.
< 1289671161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, welcome to Zealotville, Population: You.
< 1289671173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I actually install the parts I want
< 1289671180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: At least you won't be sued because of PATENTS!
< 1289671181 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when I used KDE I never installed the full thing either
< 1289671182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patents of EVIL
< 1289671195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not the reason though
< 1289671202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EEEEEVIIIIL
< 1289671215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason is simply I only install what I want. Not the whole meta-package
< 1289671224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm missing some of the gnome games too for example
< 1289671256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ubuntu's Hugin package depends on "autopano-sift-c | autopano-sift", and there is no autopano-sift-c package available by default, so it goes to autopano-sift, which depends on mono-runtime; that's one way it has gotten installed here.
< 1289671257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully you have Quadrapassel.
< 1289671271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I use autopano-sift-c I know...
< 1289671280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but then I use hugin in ~/local/panorama
< 1289671285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I want the last version
< 1289671290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want different compile time options
< 1289671299 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1289671308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and well it doesn't apply on my desktop. Which is arch.
< 1289671410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of Quadrapassel,
< 1289671411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/qpefs.png
< 1289671412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in the previous Debian installation I had autopano-sift-c from somewhere.
< 1289671413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING FUCKSHIT
< 1289671415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
< 1289671420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... apparently from the debian-multimedia repo.
< 1289671429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
< 1289671500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Hopefully you have Quadrapassel. <-- what is it?
< 1289671511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right it is there
< 1289671511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See http://i.imgur.com/qpefs.png.
< 1289671519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah tetris
< 1289671525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: FUCKKKKK
< 1289671532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (That's my screenshot.)
< 1289671534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of just now.
< 1289671537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*From
< 1289671551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One more damn second and I'd have done it!
< 1289671555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why did you say "Hopefully you have Quadrapassel."
< 1289671565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because who can live without tetris?
< 1289671568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to for example: hopefully you have the gnome minesweeper clone
< 1289671584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mines is ugly.
< 1289671586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, me, I never play it, but it is in the same package as the mine sweeper on arch I think
< 1289671589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They need a Win95 screen for it.
< 1289671596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*skin
< 1289671782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1289671786 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289672014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So, anyway, I've given up on Genera in Ubuntu 10.10, I think.
< 1289672021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1289672035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also transplantation of an older X. I could put my network driver on an Ubuntu 7.10 install CD, but I doubt I could get it working.
< 1289672114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mhm. Just manually compile a new kernel?
< 1289672127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, who knows what it would do with mode switching
< 1289672157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh, I think a driver actually existed earlier than distros included it.
< 1289672162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1289672165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err.
< 1289672168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind, that's irrelevant.
< 1289672169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it for wlan?
< 1289672178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's for LAN.
< 1289672182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications AR8132 Fast Ethernet (rev c0)
< 1289672182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:00.0 Network controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8191SEvB Wireless LAN Controller (rev 10)
< 1289672192 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289672199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know how supported the latter is, but the former is supported only in recent stuff.
< 1289672206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 10.04 onwards, for instance.
< 1289672208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er wait.
< 1289672210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1289672213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked in 9. -- no.
< 1289672228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: WLAN works in Ubuntu 9.10 and possibly before. LAN works in Ubuntu 9.04 onwards.
< 1289672238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (I didn't realise LAN was unsupported until I started plugging it in.)
< 1289672238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1289672254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I suppose WLAN might conceivably work in 7.10, but the installer sure doesn't do WiFi.
< 1289672259 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289672261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(debian-installer, that is. At least circa late 2007.)
< 1289672363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I very much doubt the alternate install (which you need, shadow passwords do not work, remember?) will support wifi
< 1289672379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The alternate installer is debian-installer.
< 1289672387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course, I theoretically don't need network in the install...
< 1289672394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (But for some reason the alternate installer wanted to get net connected???)
< 1289672408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the packages are *on disk*.
< 1289672419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Although in that case I had copied over a netinstall USB and then put the ISO on like it told me to.
< 1289672427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It could, conceivably, not have found the ISO.
< 1289672436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In which case, what I need to do is get USB working properly and then hope WLAN works...
< 1289672454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh
< 1289672486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am probably the only person to have WLAN and not LAN working in Linux.
< 1289672525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm unable to help you with that. Both my laptops have tg3 ethernet. My desktop has via rheine (sp?) and the old dell tower has some 3com
< 1289672538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I'm not sure what the old ibook has
< 1289672555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(clamshell)
< 1289672581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The easiest response to this is to buy a new computer.
< 1289672599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah. LFS and mix and match software :D
< 1289672613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which would be trivial -- I could get a nice preassembled one from endpcnoise -- except that the fanless model is Intel-only.
< 1289672629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which of course makes sense, good luck cooling an AMD processor without using, say, the Statue of Liberty as a radiator.)
< 1289672632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sense;
< 1289672634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lawlno :P
< 1289672649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kitten?
< 1289672681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Won't use ancient X.
< 1289672702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but opengenera?
< 1289672706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you must support that
< 1289672708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what
< 1289672724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, bisect X and find what commit broke it
< 1289672729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make a patch :D
< 1289672744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I rather suspect it's Open Genera doing something evil instead.
< 1289672752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Open Genera will be supported by running it in a VM :P
< 1289672792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then why are you not doing that
< 1289672829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: CPU has no virtualisation support.
< 1289672853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shitty system
< 1289672865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: qemu-system-x86_64 took a couple of hours to install Ubuntu (!), and then I had to run an xterm rendered on a local Xephyr because GNOME took about 10 minutes to start up and was unusable after that.
< 1289672875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft.net: "502 Bad Gateway<hr/>ZEN"
< 1289672876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1289672886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the hr is rendered
< 1289672890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, no, my system is fine; not supporting virtualisation is one of Intel's more-expensive-processor rendering tactics.
< 1289672924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 32-bit qemu is MUCH MUCH faster.
< 1289672958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well snap64 is a 64-bit binary
< 1289672961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it won't help
< 1289672973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just saying, my system isn't slow or anything.
< 1289673346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Personally, I feel like it'd be a good idea to get it working on qemu-system-alpha.
< 1289673353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't find an active torrent of Tru64.
< 1289673363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1289673444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It'd be stabler like that, too.
< 1289673482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1289673525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also faster, since snap4 makes Open Genera output C code.
< 1289673562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eh. output C code?
< 1289673572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Someone didn't read the README.
< 1289673580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I did but I forgot
< 1289673584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That someone is you, so go do so.
< 1289673591 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't have it on this computer
< 1289673596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that computer is not booted atm
< 1289673600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.unlambda.com/download/genera/snap4.tar.gz
< 1289673609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open in $archive_manager_of_choice.
< 1289673612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, I'm playing minecraft instead :P
< 1289673717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right now I'm looking for Genera-8-5.vlod in the opengenera tarball.
< 1289673740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway: [[This is a port of Open Genera to X64_64 linux.  It runs Open Genera
< 1289673740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under linux on a 64 bit X64 machine.
< 1289673740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a moment of insanity I decided to hack up the "Open Genera" (OG)
< 1289673740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp code which assembles the Alpha version of OG. I changed the assembler
< 1289673740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to emit C code instead of assembler.  I wrote support routines and made
< 1289673740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C code "appear" to the existing emulator code as the original asm.
< 1289673742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did have to make a few very small (1 line) changes to the original
< 1289673744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :support code.  My goal was not to make any, but some were required.]]
< 1289673801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1289673872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hey, Open Genera predates "Tru64".
< 1289673877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The quickstart guide mentions Digital UNIX.
< 1289673889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So perhaps an older version would work.
< 1289673906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't find a Digital UNIX torrent though.
< 1289673924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digital Unix 3.2C or later, says the manual.
< 1289673930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1289673960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heh -- the file versions in sys.sct are Digital Unix file versions or something.
< 1289673970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/usr/sbin/mount -t cdfs -o noversion /dev/rz4c /cdrom"
< 1289673974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--quickstart.ps
< 1289673994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? I thought it was how genera represented it's version stuff when mapping to nfs
< 1289674014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably I am misinterpreting "-o noversion".
< 1289674024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: AXP/OSF/installgenera appears to be the thing that sets everything up.
< 1289674028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's also a VLM.image there...
< 1289674040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1289674043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION eBays "dec alpha"
< 1289674078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't really need a monitor or a mouse or anything; can just ssh and X11 in.
< 1289674094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it would come with a genuine CDE environment, I bet.
< 1289674129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEC Alphastation 255/233 - alpha station vintage server    £950.00
< 1289674135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greaaaat...
< 1289674150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the hardware looks too weak, too.
< 1289674187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compaq AlphaStation DS10 617MHZ 512MB    £135.75
< 1289674190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better.
< 1289674201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=406156&image=371882423&images=371882417,371882423,371882427,371882433,371882436&formats=0,0,0,0,0&format=0
< 1289674209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "On second thoughts, maybe I don't want to pay for shipping on that."
< 1289674230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardrive: No Hardrive
< 1289674232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeahno
< 1289674235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Surplus Tech Mart is located in Israel, and we ship from Israel."
< 1289674236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeahno
< 1289674254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up :P
< 1289674330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: interesting:
< 1289674354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott hm?
< 1289674363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sec, extracting the text version to copy.
< 1289674376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm playing with local server
< 1289674382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is quite screwy
< 1289674391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the lack of tracking health
< 1289674406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       At this point, the simplest command to run genera is
< 1289674406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            genera -network <vlm-name>
< 1289674407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       or, if your network uses a non-default subnet mask (see "Non-default
< 1289674407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       Subnet Masks" for more information)
< 1289674407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            genera -network "<vlm-name>;mask=xxx.yyy.zzz.aaa;gateway=bbb.ccc.dd
< 1289674407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d.eee"
< 1289674422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw, the debugger window is meant to be literally iconified
< 1289674423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twm-style :)
< 1289674463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mhm
< 1289674968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When you hit <return> after this command, it exands in place [...]"
< 1289674969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It EXANDS!
< 1289675016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "You should then copy all the files in the site directory on the CD-ROM to the SYS:SITE; directory, e.g.
< 1289675022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copy File host:/cdrom/sys.sct/site/* sys:site;"
< 1289675054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "After copying these files, you should boot the distribution world and then switch to the site you have just defined."
< 1289675058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SET SITE command, apparently.
< 1289675119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to avoid using -w you can change genera.world in .VLM
< 1289675697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1289675713 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289675758 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know
< 1289675774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you find a tru64 copy?
< 1289675775 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-203-141.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289675788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, there is http://torrentz.com/7acdf5b3b7c29dda65d8e2b1d7659a0b9cacad62.
< 1289675792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But I have a far better idea.
< 1289675806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:12 <pikhq> elliott: Oh, you know that example of SVG only working in XHTML5-served-as-HTML5?
< 1289675808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:12 <pikhq> elliott: I think I know a way to get it to work as valid HTML5.
< 1289675810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:13 <pikhq> elliott: For the sake of compatibility with older useragents, the xmlns attribute on the html tag is allowed.
< 1289675812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:14 <pikhq> elliott: And on the other places it would be required in XML.
< 1289675815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:15 <pikhq> ... In fact, it's actually quite easy to get something that's valid HTML5 and XHTML5.
< 1289675817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:15 -!- pikhq [~pikhq@75-173-203-141.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #esoteric
< 1289675819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Make a chroot. Hop in. Install qemu. Use qemu-alpha. NOT qemu-system-alpha.
< 1289675829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right, well, that's basically TagsoupML except standardised :P
< 1289675837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Especially as the inside of the SVG would be represented as... as HTML.
< 1289675847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or XML embedded in HTML, my brain hurts.
< 1289675856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's XML embedded in HTML.
< 1289675863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you have a *link* to that example handy, BTW?
< 1289675866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That way you can avoid snap4. But I am not convinced that the X bug is snap4's...
< 1289675876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who knows
< 1289675880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uh, I hope I can find one.
< 1289675889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway http://torrentz.com/7acdf5b3b7c29dda65d8e2b1d7659a0b9cacad62.
< 1289675893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be in the logs somewhere.
< 1289675899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But peers wouldn't connect to me last I tried.
< 1289675903 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc
< 1289675907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, you go grep them :P Try /burning/
< 1289675907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but qemu-alpha emulates linux not tru64?
< 1289675911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how will that help
< 1289675922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because all snap4 does is s/alpha code/C code/.
< 1289675935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Open Genera running on Linux is a bit of an accident, I think.
< 1289675938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. What about system calls?
< 1289675952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...Well, yes. That would be a slight issue.
< 1289675973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well hey, it almost works as a plan :P
< 1289675981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1289676010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck it, I'll just make an example that's valid HTML5 and XHTML5.
< 1289676026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 10.11.04
< 1289676029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.11.04:13:45:31 <elliott> http://burningbird.net/svg/example15-6.html
< 1289676030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.11.04:13:45:32 <elliott> http://burningbird.net/svg/example15-6.xhtml
< 1289676064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well the torrent might just be slow. Perhaps the other person has an incorrectly configured firewall. If/when they try to connect it might work
< 1289676079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Let me know if you get it downloaded :P
< 1289676083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm leaving it like that over-night at least
< 1289676099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you do download it, seeding would be much appreciated :)
< 1289676135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I presume you will leave your torrent client running over night as well
< 1289676139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and that you will seed as well
< 1289676144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, otherwise: forget it
< 1289676147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, uh, why? I can't get it downloaded.
< 1289676149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How to make the XHTML valid HTML: remove the RDF tags.
< 1289676154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nor can I yet
< 1289676156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ugh
< 1289676164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, fine, I'll start Transmission.
< 1289676179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but when I downloaded an old old codewarrior it took several hours to connect. And in total over a day to download
< 1289676192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so I'm not giving up that easily
< 1289676210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, wait, it's just somewhat erroneous RDF.
< 1289676218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or you could add a comment to the bay page saying "please seed" or such
< 1289676219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BTW, there was a few seeds on a server not included in the torrentz.com link.
< 1289676222 0 :ttm_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1289676223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it was on TPB.
< 1289676227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :publicbt or something.
< 1289676230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is causing the HTML5 validator a fit.
< 1289676231 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1289676232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now why isn't torrentz loading.
< 1289676241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, one peer
< 1289676244 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from brazill?
< 1289676248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ll/l/
< 1289676257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the seeder
< 1289676257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think I got more like 3 with publicbt included.
< 1289676274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can you give me the tracker url so I can add it manually in ktorrent then
< 1289676277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did torrentz *just* go down for me...
< 1289676279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Trying to, trying to.
< 1289676292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's just you. http://torrentz.com is up."
< 1289676292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah.
< 1289676302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully Google has it cached.
< 1289676306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Google is BREAKING THE LAW.
< 1289676314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're facilitating COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.
< 1289676331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And where that RDF is put in is making the *SVG* invalid.
< 1289676343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://tracker.publicbt.com/announce
< 1289676343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two peers!
< 1289676347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have that one
< 1289676350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's me.
< 1289676351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dumbass :P
< 1289676352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is in the tpb file
< 1289676355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes it is.
< 1289676357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the point.
< 1289676359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not if you are not in canada
< 1289676363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1289676368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have the torrentz list, too, right?
< 1289676369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but I used the tpb one...
< 1289676371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, duh
< 1289676374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no?
< 1289676377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ???
< 1289676386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The whole point of using torrentz is that it tells you extra trackers to use.
< 1289676389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tracker.ilibr.org:6969/announce
< 1289676389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    13 min ago 3 3
< 1289676393 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1289676394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See http://www.torrentz.com/announce_7acdf5b3b7c29dda65d8e2b1d7659a0b9cacad62
< 1289676414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ditch thepiratebay.org (their tracker has been not-working since the legal fuss), keep publicbt, add all of those.
< 1289676421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Voila, more peers.
< 1289676423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I have 4 peers :P
< 1289676447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3
< 1289676449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Downloading!
< 1289676451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.5 KiB/s
< 1289676453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.7 KiB/s
< 1289676455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and one in Sweden
< 1289676458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.5 KiB/s
< 1289676462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This will never finish downloading ever :P
< 1289676468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250 KB/s down
< 1289676471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: By the way, you may want to prioritise the files.
< 1289676480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For instance, GNU_VOL1 is unlikely to be very important.
< 1289676483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Or non-reproducable.)
< 1289676486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the same for PORT.
< 1289676495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd set those to low priority.
< 1289676503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean "download last"?
< 1289676519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uhh, I don't know or care what your non-Transmission client calls them.
< 1289676522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably that.
< 1289676538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The others are opaquely-named so I don't know what they are.
< 1289676555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd leave them like that.
< 1289676558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suspect I know what README.txt is :P
< 1289676559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably the README will have useful info.
< 1289676566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 KiB/s!
< 1289676567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what the other ones are
< 1289676572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so high priority on that one
< 1289676578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1289676582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I don't see the point much, I will download them all anyway
< 1289676597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yours is going much faster than mine. Colossally so.
< 1289676602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait uh
< 1289676615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you end up with the whole thing and me at 1%, I legally obligate you to scp the files to me :P
< 1289676616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm need to grow that partition
< 1289676624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.1 KiB/s, uploading at 82 KiB/s.
< 1289676629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking torrents.
< 1289676634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why don't you connect to me as a peer
< 1289676641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ask transmission
< 1289676644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't see any from UK
< 1289676659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my peers are
< 1289676661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there
< 1289676662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see you
< 1289676663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :81.225.66.76
< 1289676665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using ktorrent
< 1289676669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :207.168.110.228 using uTorrent
< 1289676673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be me
< 1289676675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that first one
< 1289676677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 79.136.44.219 using libTorrent which is probably you
< 1289676682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it has 24%
< 1289676691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the other one has 6^
< 1289676693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*6%
< 1289676694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm using ktorrent
< 1289676695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ktorrent one
< 1289676696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1289676699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you are connected to me
< 1289676705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 7.03%
< 1289676719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, it's you, and you're the one hogging my upload pipe :P
< 1289676730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, moreso before, I guess. But that might have been someone else.
< 1289676734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm not downloading from you atm
< 1289676735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<!DOCTYPE html>
< 1289676736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.08%!
< 1289676745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><head><title>SVG</title></head><body><h1>SVG</h1><p>This is <code>text/html</code>!</p><h2>SVG</h2><svg height="800" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><circle cx="300" cy="300" r="300" fill="red"/></svg></body></html>
< 1289676752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You totally have to scp these to me when you have them X-P
< 1289676753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila. Valid HTML5 and XHTML5.
< 1289676755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I'm maxing my upload too
< 1289676755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what
< 1289676763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, it is just 150 kb/s now
< 1289676766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will seed it
< 1289676771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I won't scp them to you
< 1289676777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dude, regardless of you seeding it it is *impossibly slow*.
< 1289676778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, take it or leave it
< 1289676791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my upload is this slow too
< 1289676794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, 80 kb/s
< 1289676795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I wouldn't have linked you if I know you were gonna be such an ass about it...
< 1289676796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1289676798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cept it, uh, doesn't work. Fuuuck.
< 1289676802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I got nothing close to 80 KiB/s until now.
< 1289676812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's faster thanks to a seeder.
< 1289676814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because I'm uploading to more than one peer?
< 1289676818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the seeder's given up on me.
< 1289676821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now he hasn't again.
< 1289676825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 hours, 6 hours.
< 1289676829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: haha
< 1289676847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude that codewarrior download took 5 days!
< 1289676850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is nothing
< 1289676873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What AMD CPU did you buy?
< 1289676882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It works if the file suffix is .xhtml
< 1289676884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A four-core with a broken fourth core, right? aka Phenom X3
< 1289676887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1289676904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Phenom II, presumably? What clock speed? And is it any good?
< 1289676926 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^
< 1289676949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "^" says nothing. Restate that.
< 1289676958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> elliott, dude that codewarrior download took 5 days!
< 1289676958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> elliott, this is nothing
< 1289676960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> elliott, ^
< 1289676965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that :P
< 1289676968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You didn't restate the ^ line.
< 1289676974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phenom II  x3 710; clock speed of 2.6 Gs^-1.
< 1289676977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, <up arrow>
< 1289676979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Please reply to these messages because I fear you might have a one-line scrollback and not have seen them?"
< 1289676987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Restate as in reword.
< 1289676989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not bad.
< 1289677007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Got any temperature vs fan speed readings? (Stock cooler?)
< 1289677013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "please acknowledge them because I think you were intentionally avoiding them" :P
< 1289677014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Trying to figure out if AMD will work in a fanless build or not :P
< 1289677027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Stock cooler, it will not be nice fanless.
< 1289677031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I just tend to ignore things that any response would be content-free.
< 1289677041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ais does, too. Interestingly much more with you
< 1289677056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fan is fairly *quiet* when it's idle, but it's always going. And I don't have any fan speed readings handy.
< 1289677069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dude, this is what I consider a "CPU cooler": http://www.clunk.org.uk/images/articles/dfi/lanparty-cooler/RIMG0115-sm.jpg
< 1289677094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can run anything fanless, it's just a matter of whether the *other* components will make the maximum heat too much or not :P
< 1289677112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally: Coolers like that make me seriously consider sideways cases.
< 1289677119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's somewhat ridiculous.
< 1289677121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not feel like hanging that from that light sheet of metal.
< 1289677123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *awesome.
< 1289677129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: REALLY awesome.
< 1289677146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't want that one to get dusty
< 1289677158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What's it gonna do, fry the dust?
< 1289677158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have to obtain one... XD
< 1289677168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it would reduce cooling quite a bit and it would be a PITA to clean it
< 1289677184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but it's much harder to get dusty because of reduced air flow.
< 1289677196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That one is meant for Core i7s; "Megahalems". For well-respected CPU coolers in that vein, see http://www.scythe-usa.com/.
< 1289677203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They also sell very quiet fans.
< 1289677224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well true.
< 1289677231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do they sell quiet power supplies?
< 1289677239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Note: Being a silentpcreview fan, my definition of "quiet fan" is "literally inaudible, due to being below the ambient noise of any room not designed for very low ambient noise".
< 1289677254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Power supply -- try the Nexus VALUE 430.
< 1289677260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's basically silent.
< 1289677274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (You can get fanless PSUs, but they're not as common nowadays and they all have quiet low wattage).
< 1289677277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.nexustek.nl/NXS-Nexus-VALUE-430-silent-power-supply-80plus-430watt.htm
< 1289677288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nexus also sell very quiet case fans.
< 1289677290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.nexustek.nl/NXS-silentcasefans.htm
< 1289677300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my thinkpad is silent most of the time. Fan only spins up to audible levels very rarely
< 1289677303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Only buy 120mm fans. Anything smaller is loud. Also: dB(A) ratings are ALWAYS a lie.
< 1289677306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't currently have a case fan...
< 1289677312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then I wouldn't hear it when placed next to my desktop :P
< 1289677313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Silent meaning literally silent.
< 1289677316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is loud
< 1289677320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you cool everything passively, a case fan is a good idea.
< 1289677326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Especially with AMD ;)
< 1289677337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yeah, I'm well aware that smaller fans are louder.
< 1289677344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nexus also make huge coolers: http://www.nexustek.nl/NXS-silent_amd_cpu_coolers.htm
< 1289677350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but Scythe are the champion for things you can run without a fan at all.
< 1289677355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes same. Most of the time the fan is stopped or running on lowest speed when not doing very very heavy stuff such as playing a 3D game *and* compressing with xz -9 -e
< 1289677360 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289677361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, and... make sure your motherboard has enough room.
< 1289677373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Your HD is audible. :)
< 1289677382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, lowest speed fan IS NOT silent.
< 1289677383 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1289677386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well no. It is very silent
< 1289677392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The only things that are silent are things quieter than ambient noise.
< 1289677400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can hear the fan on my computer most of the time.
< 1289677407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To see what that requires, make sure no cars are going by or whatever at the moment, turn everything off, and *listen to what you hear*.
< 1289677409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though when it's idle it's bairly audible white noise.
< 1289677416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hear nothing? Congrats: your fan has to be quieter than nothing to be silent.
< 1289677420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barely.
< 1289677420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, the lowest speed is quieter than the ambient noise both at home and at university
< 1289677430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for all practical purposes it is thus silent for me
< 1289677436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubtful... not if you listened hard.
< 1289677439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When not-idle, yeah, that sucker is noisy.
< 1289677459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay not if I put my ear against the air exhaust :P
< 1289677460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For instance, if you figured out the fan was running in ANY way other than checking your computer's fan information, it wasn't below ambient noise.
< 1289677462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just quiet.
< 1289677472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but if I'm 10 cm away from that: I can't hear it
< 1289677475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, okay, or that.
< 1289677479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 cm: can't hear iut
< 1289677480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it*
< 1289677491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can't hear it, but that's your ears' fault. :P
< 1289677506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not satisfied with silence to my ears! No, I must know that no parts are moving!
< 1289677520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I do have better than average hearing. Had that tested some years ago...
< 1289677522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, entirely solid-state?
< 1289677523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And prepare myself for the creeped-outness of a computer that seemingly does nothing when I press the on button.
< 1289677543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will be an astoundingly long-lasting computer.
< 1289677552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. Except for one terabyte-or-more bulk storage disk, of 7200rpm or less (5400rpm is probably good enough), for storing big stuff.
< 1289677560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And *that* will be in an enclosure designed to muffle the noise.
< 1289677568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and well I know the hdd is moving. Can't hear it though. Well if I put my ear against the palmrest just above the hdd then I can hear it. But since I don't do that during normal operation I don't consider it a problem :P
< 1289677573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And when a reliable SSD manufacturer releases a 1 TiB SSD...
< 1289677574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm in.
< 1289677595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: However, long-lasting it may not be; if I overshoot and choose components that are too hot, they could overheat.
< 1289677602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you forgot "affordable" there :P
< 1289677606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But if it gets cooled decently... yes, it will be lovely.
< 1289677606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yes.
< 1289677616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could see parting $400 for it.
< 1289677618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a TNN case?
< 1289677619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (But I wouldn't be happy about it.)
< 1289677628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ahh, I would love the original TNN.
< 1289677638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But they have a smaller version that they actually still make.
< 1289677644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am likely to go with that.
< 1289677649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a 5400 RPM laptop disk is quiet. Which is what my thinkpad has
< 1289677667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Failing that, just put huge coolers on everything, completely open the air holes in the back of the case (just leave a gap), and hope for the best.
< 1289677682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, at 5400 RPM you're only likely to hear head movement...
< 1289677694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless that is one shitty hard drive.
< 1289677697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, if you're on a budget, know that Nexus fans are just Yate Loon fans, except they throw away the not-so-optimal ones.
< 1289677706 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289677709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That is: Yate Loon gets you the best... most of the time. :)
< 1289677718 0 :ttm_!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289677718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And they're cheaper.
< 1289677719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Keep in mind that I buy AMD. ;)
< 1289677721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean one that doesn't have to be shipped on a pallet?
< 1289677738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well I wouldn't go *that* far!
< 1289677742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> Yeah, at 5400 RPM you're only likely to hear head movement... <-- and I don't hear that either
< 1289677759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1289677761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Let me find a page for you.
< 1289677769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=totally_noiseless_case.html
< 1289677773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's Mini-ATX.
< 1289677774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, internet is slooow atm. Due to torrent
< 1289677779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loading google took half a minute
< 1289677783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, ditto :P
< 1289677790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Introducing Zalman's diminutive Totally Noiseless Computer Case (the TNN 300). This case is for the extremely demanding quiet enthusiast, who also desires a small case. Like the TNN 500AF this fanless case includes every item you need in order to noiselessly cool your computer without any fans or noise. It includes a fanless heatpipe technology power supply, CPU cooler, and video cooler. The TNN 500AF is compatible with Mini-ATX motherboa
< 1289677790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rds and CPUs up to 70 watts.
< 1289677796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxing my up speed + shitty modem
< 1289677800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70 watts?? They sell it with i5s in it!
< 1289677805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then they are <70 watts.
< 1289677816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mini-atx?
< 1289677816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1289677817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This noiseless case also has a few other limitations. For example, because of its small size, there is only enough room in the case for one optical drive. This eliminates the possibility of using an ordinarily noisy hard with a hard drive enclosure.]]
< 1289677819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh.
< 1289677821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why wtf?
< 1289677840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The nice thing about the TNNs is that they come with fanless PSU.s
< 1289677842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PSUs.
< 1289677847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the 300's case it's a 350 watt one...
< 1289677861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you want to run hefty equipment fanlessly, that's possible. But you'll have to bend copper pipes yourself.
< 1289677868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Think: big, big radiator.)
< 1289677878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This TNN 300, like TNN 500AF is not only silent, but has many other desirable features, including:
< 1289677880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]
< 1289677881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Dust
< 1289677890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[With the provided remote control, not only can the PC be turned on & off, you can access various media such as movies, music files, pictures, and internet radio, and control multimedia peripherals such as DVD, TV, digital camcorder, and digital camera.]]
< 1289677896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: totally what a silence freak is looking for amirite
< 1289677905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ("Those buttons make NOISE when you press them down!")
< 1289677947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal:
< 1289677949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V5.1Br2650_O1.iso.bz2	Tru64 5.1B operating system install
< 1289677949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V5.1Br2650_A1.iso.bz2	Associated products 1
< 1289677949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V5.1Br2650_A2.iso.bz2	Associated products 2
< 1289677949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T64V51BB27AS0006_install.iso.bz2	CD with the 5.1B4 patch kit
< 1289677976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd prioritise the first and last one to the top, and leave the associated products as-is.
< 1289677983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (i.e. "normal")
< 1289677997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Since, really, all you need is stock Unix.
< 1289678031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Vorpal: BTW, if you're willing to accept the noise of a pump(!!111zomg), you can easily do otherwise-passive watercooling with a radiator and cool much more with a smaller radiator.
< 1289678101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or I could just use larger and quieter fans.
< 1289678105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1289678106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how many PCI slots can you fit on those?
< 1289678106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they don't make the large original one any more?
< 1289678106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude, my thinkpad manages fine on a 65 W fanless one :P
< 1289678107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway step 1 for fanless PSU: make it external. That makes cooling it a *lot* easier
< 1289678107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is cheaper still.
< 1289678108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for the original one or what?
< 1289678112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaargh
< 1289678114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250 second lag
< 1289678158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> elliott, how many PCI slots can you fit on those?
< 1289678161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One or two I guess.
< 1289678166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: LAME.
< 1289678181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: <Vorpal> elliott, anyway step 1 for fanless PSU: make it external. That makes cooling it a *lot* easier
< 1289678182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Naw.
< 1289678188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that you're talking about noiseless computers, but I can't in any way understand what Tru64 Unix has to do with that. Do you have an Alpha in there or something?
< 1289678189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gah
< 1289678200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lag spike was annoying
< 1289678201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1289678203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, sure. But the PicoPSU, for instance, I think the 90W power brick has a fan.
< 1289678208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the 80W one doesn't.
< 1289678216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Open Genera runs on Tru64 Unix.
< 1289678220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, PicoPSU?
< 1289678223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The Linux port is... a hack, basically. And it'll be slower.
< 1289678234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: We're going to run ourselves a Lisp Machine.
< 1289678239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this PSU. it's tiny.
< 1289678241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: with an external power brick
< 1289678255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mhm
< 1289678267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/picopsu/picopsu5.jpg when your internet gets working
< 1289678275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33.4 KiB
< 1289678277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what are you going to run Tru64 on?
< 1289678288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: qemu-system-alpha. Unless you would like to donate... :P
< 1289678300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably there is an internal psu in the laptop that converts from the 20 V in to the different voltages different components want
< 1289678307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my laptop I mean
< 1289678353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Because its footprint is no bigger than the ATX connector itself"
< 1289678353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just hope tru64 likes the hardware of qemu-system-alpha...
< 1289678363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it is, literally, an ATX connector that's a bit longer :D
< 1289678376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: qemu-system-alpha was probably designed for tru64
< 1289678378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, it's just, I didn't think it even think it existed. My qemu-extras packages don't have a -system-alpha, and so on.
< 1289678384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eh, no SATA power?
< 1289678392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also too few molex
< 1289678393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um, now, hate to, but,
< 1289678394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might be new-ish though.
< 1289678396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there is qemu-alpha
< 1289678399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not qemu-system-alpha
< 1289678420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's why I was wondering.
< 1289678425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm?
< 1289678429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so it won't work?
< 1289678433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you told me it would
< 1289678438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, qemu-system-alpha literally doesn't exist.
< 1289678441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it did since qemu-alpha exists.
< 1289678443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it... doesn't.
< 1289678447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There is probably an Alpha emulator.
< 1289678451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not QEMU.
< 1289678455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1289678461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, find it then
< 1289678475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Bringing DC voltage down from 20V is much easier than rectifying AC and then bringing the voltage down from 120V or 240V.
< 1289678476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh, because you told me to?
< 1289678487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because my internet is broken :P
< 1289678491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[To run Tru64 I will try CHARON-AXP or REVIVE-ALPHA.]]
< 1289678495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, google timed out for me
< 1289678495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[withal i found that a simics is another choice.is that right ?]]
< 1289678507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wow @ someone in tehran saying "withal" with otherwise-broken english :D)
< 1289678516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Hi friends. I try VIRTUAL SIMICS. that works properly. i have installed sparc solaris on it. and it works very fine. i'll buy it as soon as possible. i love simics. It supports very larg number of hardware components and emulate anything that may be occur to the mind.]]
< 1289678522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true
< 1289678528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tl;dr pirate Simics.
< 1289678532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also: ITYM 230 V
< 1289678565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ah, right.
< 1289678594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or actually simics seems very enterprisey.
< 1289678596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, used to be 220 V in Sweden some years ago (15? 20? 25? Not sure)
< 1289678605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: CHARON-AXP looks good; pirate that.
< 1289678613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, needs pirating?
< 1289678619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"With CHARON-AXP replacing your Alpha is a matter of days instead of months or years."
< 1289678626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it run under linux?
< 1289678628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: proprietary, so yes.
< 1289678633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well hmm
< 1289678635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was on linuxquestions
< 1289678640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but their diagram says windows, so let me look
< 1289678650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wine! XD
< 1289678652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "# Accepted as legitimate (VMS; Tru64) Alpha replacement at affordable cost"
< 1289678658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The host system can be a multi-core Intel or AMD processor based server that supports 64-bit operation, with Windows x64 2003 Server as operating system.]]
< 1289678659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The actual voltage used is anywhere from 220V to 240V, depending on the country.
< 1289678668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[CHARON-AXP/ES40 for Linux (NCE) is a virtual Alpha ES40 system for X64 Linux made by Stromasys, built for testing and experimental purposes only, ...]]
< 1289678687 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289678688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the general tolerances for nominal 230V are 10%, so anything [207, 253] is okay.
< 1289678692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, find me the torrent and I'll look at it
< 1289678696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.stromasys.ch/hardware-virtualization-solutions/charon-axp/download-charon-axp-nce/
< 1289678702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[Unlike the commercial versions of CHARON-AXP, the NCE version does not use CPU acceleration technology.]]
< 1289678714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Our commercial CHARON-AXP products provide 400+ MIPS on an Intel Core i7 3.2 GHz host, versus approximately 50 MIPS for the CHARON-AXP/ES40 NCE version.]]
< 1289678715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: meh, 30 MIPS will do me :P
< 1289678722 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, DNS timeout XD
< 1289678734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technical information, host system requirements, and installation/configuration instructions can be found here. CHARON-AXP/ES40 for Linux NCE distribution is here (tar.bz archive, 1.24MB). An OpenVMS/AXP 8.3 disk image (with no VMS licenses) can be downloaded here (.vdisk tar.bz2 archive, 311MB, for demonstration purposes only).
< 1289678741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ftp://es40nce:eqs438gfv@ftp.stromasys.com/charon-axp_es40_v01_b111_linux_x64_nce.tar.gz FWIW
< 1289678761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Emulators that only run on one platform amuse me.
< 1289678764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ironic, sort of.
< 1289678764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "This release of CHARON-AXP/ES40 NCE will expire on 12/31/2010, it will be updated before the end of the each year." Those are some fancy terms.
< 1289678774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heh.
< 1289678786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a 30-day use limit.
< 1289678800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I sometimes feel that the worst mistake in operating systems was allowing programs to access time.
< 1289678819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or record how many times they've been used :P
< 1289678830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This license of mv(1) has expired. ..."
< 1289678854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might be a spare Alpha somewhere around the university; there were several Tru64 boxes which have been retired from service. Don't know what happened to 'em, though.
< 1289678920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ha, the same company that makes CHARON-AXP also make PDP-11 and VAX emulators
< 1289678935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I wish I was alive around the time when there were still interesting non-x86 architectures around.
< 1289678937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now it's all PC, PC, PC.
< 1289678963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "This is a 2002 research paper that describes a DEC PDP-8 emulator that runs on MS-DOS."
< 1289678985 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if our place still has any non-x86s; I saw the old UltraSparc 10 workstations in the corridor the other day.
< 1289678999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1289679054 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289679077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
< 1289679080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, there's still this one: http://p.zem.fi/psrinfo
< 1289679098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sun Fire 880     8 x 900 MHz UltraSPARC III+     16 GB RAM      Solaris 10 10/09 s10s_u8wos_08a SPARC"
< 1289679102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's being phased out, though.
< 1289679106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> There might be a spare Alpha somewhere around the university; there were several Tru64 boxes which have been retired from service. Don't know what happened to 'em, though.
< 1289679106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> *drool*
< 1289679106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> elliott, better locate a torrent what with the limits on that version...
< 1289679112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that was the last I saw
< 1289679123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Vorpal: ha, the same company that makes CHARON-AXP also make PDP-11 and VAX emulators
< 1289679124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> fizzie: I wish I was alive around the time when there were still interesting non-x86 architectures around.
< 1289679124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> fizzie: Now it's all PC, PC, PC.
< 1289679124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Vorpal: "This is a 2002 research paper that describes a DEC PDP-8 emulator that runs on MS-DOS."
< 1289679125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I'm not sure if our place still has any non-x86s; I saw the old UltraSparc 10 workstations in the corridor the other day.
< 1289679127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
< 1289679128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, loading a webpage is not possible, this includes log
< 1289679128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logs*
< 1289679129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> elliott, DNS timeout XD
< 1289679131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the last you said
< 1289679152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm always impressed how IRC tends to work even when nothing else does.
< 1289679160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Okay, there's still this one: http://p.zem.fi/psrinfo
< 1289679162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1289679165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1289679166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome
< 1289679169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of lines
< 1289679180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> fizzie: Heh.
< 1289679180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> huh
< 1289679180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> that's annoying
< 1289679180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> and pointless if they intend to keep that promise
< 1289679180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Also a 30-day use limit.
< 1289679188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]
< 1289679192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> "This license of mv(1) has expired. ..."
< 1289679195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> fizzie, well screw that
< 1289679196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MUGEN 2 is Scythe's WTFJESUS model. YASYA too.
< 1289679196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> There might be a spare Alpha somewhere around the university; there were several Tru64 boxes which have been retired from service. Don't know what happened to 'em, though.
< 1289679199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact YASYA might even be crazier
< 1289679199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> *drool*
< 1289679201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crazier.
< 1289679201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> elliott, better locate a torrent what with the limits on that version...
< 1289679203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be all
< 1289679217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, YASA?
< 1289679222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUGEN?
< 1289679222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YASYA.
< 1289679226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Scythe CPU coolers.
< 1289679229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1289679235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of the HEATPIPE TOWER variety.
< 1289679244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 30-day limit sounded work-aroundable: it seemed more like "you can have this thing up and running only for 30 days consecutively, then it'll shutdown and cause downtime, so you'd better not run your critical services on it".
< 1289679282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm
< 1289679455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results for CHARON-AXP on TPB; can't access torrentz.com right now.
< 1289679893 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Read error: Connection reset by beer
< 1289680062 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux has filesystem in userspace, but there is something I do not like about it see the example at http://fuse.sourceforge.net/ but I would prefer something like this http://sprunge.us/ZbOf
< 1289680081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you should install Plan 9 instead of Linux
< 1289680303 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Plan 9 work in that way?
< 1289680329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I believe so. Either that or a very similar way.
< 1289680336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: And it has 9P all over the place, of course.
< 1289680404 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the instruction how that kind of things works in Plan 9?
< 1289680468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The Plan 9 Manual, which is included in every Plan 9 system.
< 1289680492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can download Plan 9 Fourth Edition here: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/download/plan9.iso.bz2
< 1289680503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If your system cannot boot CDs, you also need: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/download/plan9.flp.gz
< 1289680513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Installation documentation is http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/installation_instructions/, if you decide to install it.
< 1289680530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: There is also http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Documentation/.
< 1289680543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: This includes all the Plan 9 papers, a web interface to every man page, and also guides for installation and configuration.
< 1289680555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The man pages are where most Plan 9 documentation is; try looking up "9p" or similar.
< 1289680634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Intel GFX people continue to be profoundly unhelpful!
< 1289680634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If your keyboard, mouse, VGA card and Ethernet card work, then you're set. USB mice/keyboards aren't supported.
< 1289680657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can easily verify the first three by trying to boot the CD; if it boots and you can use your keyboard and mouse in the graphical display, they work. You could then check Ethernet works.
< 1289680673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have so far been told to upgrade my drivers to the new ones from Sid, which I did, and when that didn't help noöne even responded.
< 1289680676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear YouTube: Stop buffering even though you have plenty of the video loaded
< 1289680721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because it's a developer's channel, which I found out by reading the topic.
< 1289680738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense...
< 1289680751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Try #debian.
< 1289680756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can point you places gruffly.
< 1289680774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had even less help when I asked them, even when I asked them where I could go
< 1289680776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Although several netbooks using the Poulsbo chipset are shipped with some distribution of Linux (notably the Sony Vaio P and Dell Inspiron Mini 12, among others), Poulsbo's graphics core GMA 500 is currently not well supported by Intel for Linux.]]
< 1289680780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is yours a GMA 500?
< 1289680790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think so.
< 1289680793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[However there is a quite easy way to have the drivers work on any Debian-based distribution, thanks to the Ubuntu sources and packages, for the linux kernel 2.6.30 (with newer kernel it would need a little hacking but seems still possible while the sources are included). A detailed explanation is available here[5].
< 1289680794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A proprietary driver was shipped with Dell's adaptation of Ubuntu 8.04.1 Netbook Remix, which provides 2D hardware acceleration (although users reported serious stability issues[6]) under Linux kernel 2.6.24. A work-in-progress free driver is currently available, however the proprietary driver does not work with current Linux kernels and current versions of X.[7] Work is under way to provide at least 2D support in current Linux kernels,[8] althou
< 1289680794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gh this will still rely on proprietary binary code for the 3D part of the driver. The current[9] status of this driver runs on Fedora 10 and allows for 2D. 3D acceleration, however, is still broken.]]
< 1289680798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What is it?
< 1289680801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (lspci or whatever, etc.)
< 1289680809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chipset is Mobile 4 Series.
< 1289680814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Are these links helpful?
< 1289680833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Me too.
< 1289680835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have no problems at all.
< 1289680842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What laptop model?
< 1289680855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acer Aspire somethingorother.
< 1289680863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well that's helpful.
< 1289680873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, try Ubuntu's driver.
< 1289680878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5738Z.
< 1289680883 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1289680887 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I have mobile 4 series on my thinkpad
< 1289680889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works well
< 1289680893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may break X, so prepare to not use it.
< 1289680934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can live with repairable breaking.
< 1289680949 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a fairly large amount of non-repairable breaking.
< 1289681007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wrt absurd CPU cooler sizes: http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/1212/noctua_nhd14_014.jpg
< 1289681019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, Noctua.
< 1289681035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, absurdly large
< 1289681036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is that a Noctua cooler or just Noctua fans on a non-Noctua cooler?
< 1289681040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like the former but I can't tell.
< 1289681050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ehh, not that absurdly large.
< 1289681050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a noctua cooler according to the page it is on
< 1289681054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly a trick of perspective.
< 1289681063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Those fans are big but they're not *huge*.
< 1289681068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no it isn't. That middle one is a 140 mm fan
< 1289681073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how big the fans are.
< 1289681081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's seriously not *that* gigantic, as gigantic coolers go.
< 1289681101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick-updates/xserver-xorg-video-intel
< 1289681117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on Ubuntu, remember?
< 1289681121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...so download the .deb?
< 1289681123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, know anything more gigantic?
< 1289681124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh.
< 1289681125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1289681129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, no. :P
< 1289681130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is actually mass produced
< 1289681138 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did look at the documentation; Plan 9 does not work in the way I specified in my example file either
< 1289681144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1289681145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The megahalems may be bigger. Can't tell.
< 1289681156 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If I install Linux, I could modify the system to do what I think it should do)
< 1289681157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OK, but every program gets its own filesystem namespace.
< 1289681162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this will help: http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/1212/noctua_nhd14_015.jpg
< 1289681164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can do that with Plan 9 too.
< 1289681175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, measurements
< 1289681176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: /sys/src contains full sources. You can modify them, "mk" them, and "mk install" them.
< 1289681186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: This is on every Plan 9 system. (More information about compiling it is available in the man pages.)
< 1289681201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OK, that's pretty big. Got a link?
< 1289681209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To the review.
< 1289681234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to that page in the review: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1212/4/ (you might want to go to the first page at the list at the bottom)
< 1289681246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just chop off "4/".
< 1289681255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah yes, didn't notice that
< 1289681262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on the megahalems: "Does its job well and reduced the temperature of my CPU by 25 - 30 degrees over the stock heat sink."
< 1289681265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive cooling.
< 1289681280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that link was to the 2.12.0 version of the drivers, yes?
< 1289681288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried that from Sid; it didn't help.
< 1289681303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ubuntu patch things.
< 1289681319 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289681348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So try it.
< 1289681367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heyy, that thing is AM3-compatible with a backplate.
< 1289681374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 900 grams... nice.
< 1289681381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hope it works without a fan :P
< 1289681400 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no clue :P
< 1289681401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can have like:  if(path_starts_with(path,"/mixer")) return mixer_userfs(command,path+6,data);
< 1289681427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I use the stock AMD Sempron 3300+ heatsink with the stock fan. So...
< 1289681434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Error: A later version is already installed"
< 1289681440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You could easily modify Plan 9 to do these things. The code is a lot simpler and smaller than Plan 9 too, so it will be easier.
< 1289681443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Loser.
< 1289681450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: --force-all
< 1289681451 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well it runs quite cool :P
< 1289681456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Loser.
< 1289681459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the PSU fan is way louder
< 1289681460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/1212/noctua_nhd14_005.jpg
< 1289681462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Versus can of Dr Pepper!"
< 1289681490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm going to be so paranoid about thermal paste.
< 1289681494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did I get it on properly? Aieeeeee"
< 1289681515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there *is* no --force-all option for gdebi.
< 1289681524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dpkg(1)
< 1289681532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Should be (8)...)
< 1289681553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/1212/noctua_nhd14_017.jpg
< 1289681562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/1212/noctua_nhd14_016.jpg
< 1289681564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the context
< 1289681565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my, not only are there Megahalems, there are now "Supermegas" from the same manufacturer.
< 1289681573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Following the huge success of Megahalems comes the super edition, the SUPER MEGA."
< 1289681582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Internet working now, eh?
< 1289681597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I limited upload to 10 kbps less than my max speed
< 1289681602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then everything works fine
< 1289681610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I would whine, but my download is pretty good now :P
< 1289681637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, restart X server now?
< 1289681640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you might whine all you like, but I like actually being able to access stuff
< 1289681641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1289681645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "It also has the one thing that I think most enthusiasts wish they could change about a Noctua fan: the color."
< 1289681647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wut
< 1289681659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (1) the colours are nice! (2) ...it's meant to be in your fucking computer
< 1289681676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, plexiglass cases I guess
< 1289681679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate them too
< 1289681681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh right.
< 1289681694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: god I hate "PC" "enthusiasts"
< 1289681702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289681704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "Now, if you were thinking about adding a third fan, well, don’t. The back of the cooler is so close to the back of the case and the rear fan that it most likely wouldn’t fit."
< 1289681710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: who think they're hardware-savvy or "built their own computer" because they plugged a few components together
< 1289681715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As if it's hard! It's DESIGNED to be easy.
< 1289681717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's DESIGNED to be routine.
< 1289681725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed
< 1289681734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You plug A into Z, B into Z, C into D, and D into Z, and you press the on button.
< 1289681739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, congratulations.
< 1289681741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt my grandma could manage though. But she couldn't manage to use a mouse I think
< 1289681742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You did it.
< 1289681750 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028093.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289681756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well yeah, it's not trivial, but it's also something anyone could do with a simple set of instructions.
< 1289681778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, slightly trickier than IKEA. (IKEA needs no ESD protection)
< 1289681789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now what *is* tricky is doing the same on a laptop
< 1289681800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :service manual is a *must* there
< 1289681805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But what about the WIRELESS anti-static wristwraps?
< 1289681819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, people market these. Not that they work.)
< 1289681820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh? how would that work?
< 1289681828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so false marketing
< 1289681830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sue them
< 1289681831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It doesn't. But it doesn't stop 'em from selling it...
< 1289681842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dude, these companies are on the super-shady end of shady anyway :P
< 1289681845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're probably in China or something.
< 1289681849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1289681856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And if you sued every company with shady marketing in China, ... hahahaha.
< 1289681864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed
< 1289681869 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-152.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289681909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, link to that super-megahalem?
< 1289681914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it with google
< 1289681919 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to a review that is
< 1289681922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835242006
< 1289681925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look just like Megahalems to me.
< 1289681930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, wait.
< 1289681932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have COPPER in them too.
< 1289681936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was a watermark or something.
< 1289681946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, any review?
< 1289681962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also "supermega" is such a bad name
< 1289681968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :superhalem would have been better
< 1289681970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is.
< 1289681984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking for reviews.
< 1289682017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://pro-clockers.com/cooling/1703-prolimatech-super-mega.html http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/prolimatech_super_mega,1.html Haven't loaded these but just from the domain name I'd be sceptical of them.
< 1289682018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289682043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Today on "Darwinism In Action":
< 1289682044 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1289682047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Is It Necessary To Wear Anti Static Wrist Wrap When Installing A Mobo?
< 1289682049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the chances of shorting the mobo or cpu whae building a computer,and is no wrist wraps,what else would would work thanks
< 1289682049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]]
< 1289682052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't really "work", but it had some... interesting behaviour.
< 1289682058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh?
< 1289682112 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The test I'm using (running FreeSpace 2 with the latest graphical extensions on) failed, rather than crashing the computer.
< 1289682130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, that's better, no?
< 1289682131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More curiously, it failed in a way it's failed before; I'm looking into the details now
< 1289682163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regrettably, the FS2 SCP developers decided that debug output should require a debug build.
< 1289682174 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what I'm doing now?
< 1289682181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1289682186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: jesus, most people on http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=169880 are saying "naw you don't need a wrist strap"
< 1289682191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Always handle all your hardware by the very edges of the PCB, and even if there were a static shock, more than likely it would never hit anything vital or even do any damage if it did."
< 1289682195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm an electrician and grounding your self with a wrist band is alittle over the top, BUT, if it makes yourself feal better then do it."
< 1289682240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... Gah.
< 1289682261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1289682421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something amusing that I've said before: djb has published parts, assembly and installation instructions for his "standard workstation" in 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2009. However, he has not assembled any of them past the 2006 one.
< 1289682432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cr.yp.to/hardware/advice.html
< 1289682434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cr.yp.to/hardware/build-20060107.html
< 1289682436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cr.yp.to/hardware/build-20071203.html
< 1289682439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cr.yp.to/hardware/build-20090123.html
< 1289682450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, when working on consumer electronics, it's not *exceptionally* likely that you're going to damage something via static electricity. But why risk it? When it does happen, that is going to be an expensive lesson to learn...
< 1289682458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1289682496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they're kiddies, if they break if they can just recharge it all to their parents' credit cards
< 1289682523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since it's not exactly hard to keep yourself grounded...
< 1289682553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Newegg operated in the UK.
< 1289682559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either a wrist strap or (if you've got a bare metal case with a power supply in it, attached to the case itself, and plugged in) remain in contact with the damned metal of the case.
< 1289682590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289682591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming, of course, your house is actually grounded. If it isn't, your electrician is a madman.)
< 1289682626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> In other news, Compiz also crashes.
< 1289682626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> [[compiz (core) - Fatal: Software rendering detected.]]
< 1289682626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> DRIconf is also no longer able to start in the nicey-nice mode and instead defaults to the advanced interface.
< 1289682626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Curiouser and curiouser.
< 1289682633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn connection. And client.
< 1289682635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Don't use Compiz.
< 1289682643 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not any more.
< 1289682651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anything built pre-1980s around here tends -- well, unless someone's actually done some renovation, which is likely for pre-1950 -- to have only ungrounded outlets, except a few in special places like the bathroom.
< 1289682657 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shut it down for these tests anyway.
< 1289682662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If you really want window shadows, enable Metacity compositing.
< 1289682663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Where "here" is?
< 1289682663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1289682667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Finland.
< 1289682669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Finland.
< 1289682672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably.
< 1289682674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aww, we're same-second buddies!
< 1289682678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I own your firstborn now.
< 1289682688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not from where I look from! But anyhow.
< 1289682698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Correct response:
< 1289682710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> elliott: By that logic, I own your firstborn too.
< 1289682714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Isn't that called "marriage"?
< 1289682725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm surprised that many modern electronics work there, then — most things kinda require a grounded outlet...
< 1289682736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm getting an error from FS2 about DDSes being compressed but compression not being enabled.
< 1289682762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least, should. Do your IEC cables just not hook up the grounding pin? If so, you are all crazy.
< 1289682771 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, I got this error before, and it was "fixed" by enabling an option in DRIconf.
< 1289682785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You Americans are crazy for not having a child-saving safety plug pin!
< 1289682797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say "fixed" because it didn't give any errors and instead just broke the computer.
< 1289682849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You Brits are crazy for having a ring circuit and fuses in the plug!
< 1289682851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why does djb make those standard workstation things?
< 1289682858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I enable the option, nothing happens.
< 1289682922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> pikhq: Anything built pre-1980s around here tends -- well, unless someone's actually done some renovation, which is likely for pre-1950 -- to have only ungrounded outlets, except a few in special places like the bathroom. <-- same in Sweden
< 1289682941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> fizzie: Aww, we're same-second buddies! <-- not from here
< 1289682946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 second difference
< 1289682954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> elliott, why does djb make those standard workstation things?
< 1289682962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Grounded outlets here are type F -- http://electricaloutlet.org/type-f -- which has two grounding connectors on the sides; the older ones just have a round hole. So you can indeed plug grounded cables into an old-style power outlet, and it connects just phase and neutral.
< 1289682965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz he built a computer twice, and published the specs to stop people bothering him?
< 1289682972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just inherently assumes that everyone values his own opinion.
< 1289682989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can't plug the old-style round connector into a grounded outlet, though, without whittling it down a bit.)
< 1289682990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be honest, the components are well thought-out, it's just surprising he goes to the effort if he doesn't bother building it.
< 1289683004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Still, he tells people to share his experiences with the djb-hardware list on his pages, so presumably people actually build them.
< 1289683015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There are a lot of slightly-crazy "djb way" people.
< 1289683016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's... Crazy. If you somehow plugged in a grounded cable to an ungrounded socket, there could be a shock risk.
< 1289683047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1289683077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, um. Presumably they would design the products to be safe for both
< 1289683093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, that "the djb way" ebook is down.
< 1289683100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No, the result after that isn't it.)
< 1289683100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's also what is pretty commonly done. Basically anyone who has a computer in a place with ungrounded outlets by default.
< 1289683117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[DJB says that a construct like:
< 1289683118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (*tz != '\0')
< 1289683119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*q++ = *tz++;
< 1289683119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would make it possible to take over the machine by a local user.
< 1289683119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does he mean exactly with his statement? Can anyone shed
< 1289683119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some light on that? I don't really understand this.]]
< 1289683120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) "DJB" fail
< 1289683123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) C strings fail
< 1289683173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well assuming q is valid for the length of tz it looks fine to me
< 1289683184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It fails to null-terminate q. Duh.
< 1289683188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right
< 1289683201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would have assumed that was done after
< 1289683209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And instantly I never trust network-exposed daemons you have written to run on any of my systems :P
< 1289683228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I wouldn't write code like that :P
< 1289683228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal:
< 1289683230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Bug fixed 1996.09.17:
< 1289683230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   while (*tz != ’\0’)
< 1289683230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      *q++ = *tz++;
< 1289683230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impact: Any local user
< 1289683230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can take over the machine.]]
< 1289683232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in sendmail)
< 1289683242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, what, all your equipment is class II, and hence has no need for grounding?
< 1289683251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what I would do is use memcpy and get the range right
< 1289683254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better yet
< 1289683256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not use C
< 1289683276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: C could be fine with buffer overflows if it had a better standard library.
< 1289683286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This is why djb uses very little libc in his programs...
< 1289683305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You all are either mad or a bit silly for adding grounding.
< 1289683326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Bug fixed 1996.11.17:
< 1289683327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    execv(argv[0],argv);
< 1289683327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Sendmail running setuid.
< 1289683327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impact: Any local user
< 1289683327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can take over the machine.]]
< 1289683329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NICE.
< 1289683329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You guys, on the other hand: nicely done on not having ungrounded sockets.
< 1289683351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, but you wouldn't believe the price we pay for it. Our plugs are *huge* and unwieldy.
< 1289683364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (For no particular reason other than bad design.)
< 1289683365 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a somewhat funny quote related to this (forgot from where): There are only two hard problems in Computer Science: graph search, naming things and off-by-one errors
< 1289683377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ha.
< 1289683386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took me a second to work that out; I was busy saying "don't you mean three"?
< 1289683389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*three?".
< 1289683391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typing
< 1289683392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1289683393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Clearly you should adopt IEC 60906-1 plugs.
< 1289683402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Pic plz
< 1289683406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't really have a survey; but given how much people bring things from wherever, I would seriously doubt everything's class-II.
< 1289683414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/IEC-906-1-plug.svg
< 1289683450 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, There are 10 types of people: Those who don't get Gray code, those who think this is a joke about base 2 and those who know Gray code.
< 1289683465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Then you must be insane. Things that are class-1 will hook their chassis to ground, so that any short will go to ground, tripping the circuit breaker or fuse. And not hurting anyone.
< 1289683467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Those edges need rounding for comfort.
< 1289683468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*roundening
< 1289683472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I presume you heard it before
< 1289683482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, but I like it.
< 1289683489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Without grounding, what instead happens is 120/230V right to anyone who touches it.
< 1289683492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The middle one should be last though.
< 1289683508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it wasn't the way I heard it
< 1289683517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the right one should be last in general
< 1289683525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Curiously enough, I don't think the country as a whole has any sort of higher-than-average electrocution rate.
< 1289683527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is "those who know gray code"
< 1289683533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a Europlug with a grounding pin. International standard for 230V/50Hz but only adopted by Brazil...
< 1289683535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But it spoils most of the joke by the middle one.
< 1289683543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which is on 127V/60Hz. Because fuck you.
< 1289683550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But whatever :P
< 1289683555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lawl
< 1289683558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. You kind of give it away with the first one already
< 1289683580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but people might think it's just a "not X, X"/"X, not X" type of binary joke.
< 1289683581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the latter one makes them double take and get it.
< 1289683596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not if they know what gray code is
< 1289683606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The standard for 120V/60Hz is in use by the US and Japan. Hooray.
< 1289683609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they conclude that there will be 3 after the first one
< 1289683622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or are you not fluent in short gray code?
< 1289683623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... Because IEC just standardised what they were doing. XD)
< 1289683640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit I have to think if dealing with more than 3 digits of gray code.
< 1289683645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really, no. I know what it is though :P
< 1289683650 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1289683674 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289683682 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, Kaurnaugh diagrams use gray code encoding of the variables when you have multiple on one side
< 1289683766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, the requirements *have* been for quite a while now sane, for any new installations: it's "just" the existing death-traps that could be a problem.
< 1289683820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Still, you guys are mad for making the grounded plugs fit into ungrounded sockets.
< 1289683832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, http://thedjbway.b0llix.net/ is it.
< 1289683856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"    A Unix system is comprised of many smaller, simple programs and utilities, each performing a specific task in a focused and well-defined way."
< 1289683858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, sure.
< 1289683861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"A
< 1289683869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unix was originally developed by AT&T/Bell Labs to run their huge network of telephone switches across the U.S."
< 1289683870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction:
< 1289683898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Though, then again, the US does some crazy stuff sometimes. There's ungrounded-to-grounded plug adapters. You're supposed to attach it to a ground manually (either via screwing it onto a socket that has a grounded case, or via a ground wire, or whatever), but nobody does.
< 1289683919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unix was originally developed by Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie to run Spacewar!."
< 1289683958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, most of north europe use F style plugs
< 1289683973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least Germany and further north
< 1289683998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, old
< 1289683999 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, the old-style ungrounded outlets are just two holes with the right distance: we'd have had to adopt some sort of a third prong to make something that won't fit in there. (Or change the distance of pins, but then you couldn't plug in any of your old double-insulated class II type C europlug things into any new grounded outlets.
< 1289684000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, the ungrounded sockets have been banned since 1960, and most things older than that have needed the wiring renovated...
< 1289684012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I just wrote that.
< 1289684016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was correcting, as you can see,
< 1289684018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While in the UK we use our massive plugs, slightly larger than one's head.
< 1289684019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> "Unix was originally developed by AT&T/Bell Labs to run their huge network of telephone switches across the U.S."
< 1289684021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the story
< 1289684022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Correction:
< 1289684029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but the fact is old
< 1289684032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could have just added a third hole in the socket.
< 1289684034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Duh. I was correcting that quoted stupidity.
< 1289684041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in fact that fact is as old as unix as a matter of fact
< 1289684060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than the weirdo clips on the side.
< 1289684115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it telling that plug adapters to British plugs actually *contain the entire plug* and end up looking like a normal British plug.
< 1289684126 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have now read the entire book of TeX: The Program. I want to implement it differently, using the C memory allocation for simpler, and omitting much useless stuff such as \outer. (This makes it isn't TeX, but something similar, so it can be called YeX instead; and using the GNU GPL instead of the TeX copyright)
< 1289684149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Don't mock us :P
< 1289684152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, those clips have some reason. IIRC related to making sure to have ground before the actual power is connected
< 1289684155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1289684164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: malloc() isn't simple. static buffers are far simpler
< 1289684165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can do that with a longer middle prong.
< 1289684167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and harder to mess up)
< 1289684170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true
< 1289684174 0 :augur_!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289684177 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289684181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, a three-prong plug would have worked. Still, type E (france, belgium, etc) did it so that the socket has a pin, and the plug has just the regular two pins and a hole: you can of course stick that in an ungrounded just-two-holes outlet too.
< 1289684191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: alloca() is simpler than malloc(), too: it is stored on the stack (so don't make allocation size too big), and requires no free()
< 1289684198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since returning from the function will eliminate the storage
< 1289684199 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289684205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> elliott: I think it telling that plug adapters to British plugs actually *contain the entire plug* and end up looking like a normal British plug. <-- uh? Why is that telling?
< 1289684217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Euro_converter_plug2.jpg The things are fucking huge.
< 1289684221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that allows you to do "char foo[N];" for runtime-calculated N, basically, with "char *foo = alloca(N)"
< 1289684225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(N);
< 1289684226 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Using malloc() though, means using the computer memory instead of fixed the amount of memory at compile time.
< 1289684240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: calloc lets you use memory, too.
< 1289684243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh
< 1289684246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can get the same sort of adapter for just about any other plug.
< 1289684248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It is just stored on the stack.
< 1289684256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, weird way to design it
< 1289684258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uhh, that's smaller than most British plugs.
< 1289684260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why do they do it that way
< 1289684268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It still looks entirely normal.
< 1289684278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, it's seriously too small.
< 1289684281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be suspicious of that.
< 1289684313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WP puts it pretty mildly using just the words "less safely": "Schuko sockets can accept two-pin unearthed type C plugs, namely CEE 7/16 and CEE 7/17. Less safely, schuko plugs can be inserted into many two-pin unearthed sockets and into some sockets with a different form of earth connection that will not mate with the earth contacts on the schuko plug (e.g., some variants of type K). Many such sockets also lack the cavity required to prevent users from t
< 1289684313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouching the pins whilst inserting the plug."
< 1289684317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No idea why the plugs are gigantic.
< 1289684326 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In many things though, static allocation is better and stuff, so I can use static allocation, too. But some things would use dynamic allocation. (TeX has its own dynamic allocation in a statically allocated area) In some cases using things on stack is work, but some times global memory is needed instead.
< 1289684337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: By "less safely" they of course mean "death trap".
< 1289684345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But if you can suggest a better way that still does these things, do so)
< 1289684352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, "char *x = alloca(N);" is the same thing as "char x[N];", except that with the former, you can calculate N at runtime.
< 1289684371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: So you don't have to free() it or anything, it acts just like you wrote "char x[N];" except you can work out what N is while the program is running.
< 1289684381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, for the record, mandated grounded outlets appeared here only in the beginning of 1990s, so it's quite a while until every place will have those. (Also mandated ground fault circuit interruptors.)
< 1289684416 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thanks. That does help a bit, for some cases. (It should not work well for global variables though, that need many allocation and free)
< 1289684441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, indeed. Note that alloca isn't part of the official Unix standard, but it works everywhere I can think of.
< 1289684458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect at least part of reasoning for the gigantic plugs is that the plugs are supposed to have the fuse in them.
< 1289684462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this house has ground fault. And earthed in most rooms. Not in all. Was built in 1907. Renovated and extended in the 1960s.
< 1289684468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1289684472 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Including Linux and MinGW?
< 1289684473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ground fault detection
< 1289684474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant
< 1289684491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and presumably protection)
< 1289684491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Linux definitely (and BSDs too). MinGW, yes (unless MinGW is really weird), because gcc handles it.
< 1289684510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mingw is just gcc targeting win32 iirc
< 1289684524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: One thing to take note of is that if you pass alloca() too big a number -- such that the amount of stack used plus the number given is bigger than the maximum size of the stack -- you will get a stack overflow.
< 1289684534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But you'd have to pass it a very big number.
< 1289684541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> zzo38: Well, "char *x = alloca(N);" is the same thing as "char x[N];", except that with the former, you can calculate N at runtime. <-- the latter works in C99
< 1289684543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is portable
< 1289684547 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is good, now it can work on BSD also, is good!
< 1289684548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike alloca()
< 1289684550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, elliott ^
< 1289684551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not for completely runtime N.
< 1289684555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still do some pretty dubious things under the current rules when renovating old stuff; like install grounded outlets that have been grounded by connecting the grounding pins to the N wire; it's I guess reasonably safe, it'll blow a fuse if you short to ground, but still. If it's a new construction, you need to have separate N and PE wires from the outlets.
< 1289684563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IIRC it's quite limited as to what you can put in there.
< 1289684573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I don't think zzo38 uses C99.
< 1289684583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, limited how?
< 1289684595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course the alternative is that no-one'd bother installing grounded outlets when renovating, since no-one wants to redo all the wiring, and there's generally just two wires from the electricity distribution point to the outlets.)
< 1289684596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think you can say
< 1289684600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char x[f(y)];
< 1289684601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for arbitrary f
< 1289684607 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use the default mode of gcc which I think is the "GNU mode", which supports some but not all features of C99.
< 1289684622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could do size_t t = f(y); char x[f(y)]; at least
< 1289684630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1289684632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could do size_t t = f(y); char x[t]; at least
< 1289684636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1289684639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And here, you can use these: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Cheater_plug_edited.jpg
< 1289684652 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are some features I do not like in C99, though, so I don't use those features.)
< 1289684658 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1289684667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course if f(y) doesn't return a positive integer you would have some issues
< 1289684762 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289684790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, apparently wiring ground to neutral actually is quite unsafe. It can actually cause shocks while the equipment is functioning normally.
< 1289684815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ground fault detection just means there's a box that will go all "oh, I see the power I'm pumping into the phase wire is not going back through the neutral, I guess it is going through some poor guy holding a faulty device instead; I think I'll cut it down"; and do that in a hundred milliseconds or so. It does mean that you won't have to play the part of the grounding wire yourself for more than a while, but that's not exactly pleasant either.
< 1289684832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed
< 1289684848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I know what it is
< 1289684854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, jordfelsbrytare in Swedish
< 1289684860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot more compact
< 1289684877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the word that is)
< 1289685073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I guess you're referring to something like this happening:
< 1289685076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What are the trade-offs? It is possible that there will be an internal house wiring failure and then the ground on your device will be connected directly to neutral, which will be a bad thing. In this case, touching a case, or similar will be bad for you.
< 1289685076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible that there will be an internal failure with a device in use, which may shunt electricity to say a case. In this instance, if the ground is connected to neutral, then it will provide a short to ground at the breaker box (or more likely fuse panel in this case).
< 1289685076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect the device in use such as a to fail more often than the neutral wire."
< 1289685105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The context is a outlet done with the ground-to-neutral thing.)
< 1289685130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not need the features of C++ because I can use the feature of Enhanced CWEB to make computation at compile time (and can even make a book).
< 1289685131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "vikavirtasuojakytkin"; our word is a bit longer.
< 1289685143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nasty
< 1289685162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and completely unpronounceable to me :P
< 1289685176 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A four-part compound word; fi:vika → en:fault, fi:virta → en:current, fi:suoja → en:protection, fi:kytkin → en:switch.
< 1289685234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I just want you to know that I tried to re-implement something like your intl code in C and failed because C doesn't let me use a string literal as an array index.
< 1289685247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yuh...
< 1289685247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jord fel (s) brytare for us. The s is just needed to combine the words properly there. It is not really part of any of the words. translates to earth, error/fault, breaker respectively.
< 1289685248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would have worked in compilers that use the same address if you mention the same literal twice!
< 1289685295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he relied on THAT?
< 1289685307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, from what I remember that is only true within a single translation unit
< 1289685308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, zzo38 did it all at compile-time.
< 1289685311 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1289685312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to do it in plain C!
< 1289685316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm CRAZY
< 1289685318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then
< 1289685327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *foo[] = { ["foo"] = "bar" };
< 1289685329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's actually safe to do is just use a GFCI (AKA RCD) outlet...
< 1289685330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do it in C++ with templates!
< 1289685337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is apparently disallowed by new standards compliance checks in new gcc that are
< 1289685339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT DISABLEABLE
< 1289685344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right, it COULD compile my code, it just refuses to
< 1289685345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it :P
< 1289685358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, while not providing a convenient ground, will at least result in shorts cutting off power.
< 1289685365 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it fails because C does not have that feature (the preprocessor is not powerful enough). Enhanced CWEB does have that feature (although using a string literal as the array index is not necessary, and it doesn't matter if "abc"=="abc"). (I do not know whether or not you can do these things in C++, though.)
< 1289685371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gcc doesn't put them all at the same place at -O0, and sometimes doesn't across translation units
< 1289685422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You mean "always doesn't", surely.
< 1289685424 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, C++ probably is unable to do it; can C++ output the needed extra files and everything like that at compile-time?)
< 1289685425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, GFCI?
< 1289685439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (G)Just Fucking Cuil It
< 1289685439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ground fault circuit interrupter.
< 1289685441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly.
< 1289685446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, always where?
< 1289685450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gust-Fucking: Cuil it.
< 1289685451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*It
< 1289685453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cuts power when there's a short across ground.
< 1289685456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah
< 1289685457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "sometimes doesn't across translation units"
< 1289685489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean that sometimes constants end up as one copy in .rodata and sometimes as two
< 1289685499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1289685509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it seems to depend on gcc version, compiler flags, and exact construct used
< 1289685532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for example static const char foo[] = "..."; didn't combine for me once I know
< 1289685534 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, one doesn't commonly see IP0x or IP1x devices (any higher, and case prevents direct contact with internals without tools)...
< 1289685551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, while static const char const * foo = "..."; did
< 1289685558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note double const
< 1289685598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, that was a major issue because I was targeting an embedded system
< 1289685608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, that change made it fit :D
< 1289685616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was 3 bytes to large without
< 1289685622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the sharing*
< 1289685638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: asm foo
< 1289685650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, that would have been more work
< 1289685656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: forth foo
< 1289685662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Try to implement something like my intl stuff in plain C or C++, but I think you cannot do so! But try anyways if you want to, maybe you will figure out something else instead.
< 1289685667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm perhaps
< 1289685669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo forth)
< 1289685681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, already existed code for it in C
< 1289685685 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to interface that
< 1289685687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course you get the pleasure of implementing your own Forth in as little asm as you can first.
< 1289685693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than writing your own IO routines and so on
< 1289685702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a port, right?
< 1289685709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just put and read :P
< 1289685712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no
< 1289685721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh?
< 1289685726 0 :Decarabia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289685727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some memory mapped registers
< 1289685736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that requires bit twiddling
< 1289685745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: @ !
< 1289685751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your memory needs covered.
< 1289685762 0 :Decarabia!~root@S010600240171528a.ed.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289685772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's a reason forth is common for embedded work :P
< 1289685774 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also C@ and C! for single byte fetch/store
< 1289685774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also it had a weird memory map
< 1289685778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to say the least
< 1289685807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some addresses doubled as output registers and as ram depending on flags elsewhere :D
< 1289685828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I go to the religious education center, I use Forth to make a database system for them.
< 1289685855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I had to interface ROM code on it. Which had a C friendly calling convention
< 1289685863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Aren't those devices generally only going to trigger only after you've actually gotten a shock? If there's a floating ground and a RCD switch, it'll only trigger when there's actually some current flowing through an alternative path (i.e. you) to real ground. (Of course it's hopefully fast enough.) ... Well, I guess if someone builds that into an actual outlet, they're also going to possibly measure voltage to the ground pins too.
< 1289685864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with ROM
< 1289685865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean ROM
< 1289685867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sounds like evil devices.
< 1289685870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, PROM
< 1289685874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an evil device.
< 1289685881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can Lego be evil?
< 1289685889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes this is about RCX)
< 1289685894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. (Ha ha, kiddie university.)
< 1289685899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not at university
< 1289685903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was on my free time :P
< 1289685910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha, Minecraft player.
< 1289685912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait...
< 1289685916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1289685922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that one made no sense
< 1289685947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see why people think minecraft is similar to lego
< 1289685950 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't at all
< 1289685950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did so.
< 1289685956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You build stuff.
< 1289685965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes. Uh so what about TTD?
< 1289685977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, TTD is same as minecraft which is same as lego!
< 1289685980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't made out of uniformly-sized blocks.
< 1289685992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nor is lego. Lego technic has lots of shapes
< 1289685999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is the lego I'm used to
< 1289686001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not Lego.
< 1289686013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well even old lego has more than one shape
< 1289686014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Fauxgo.
< 1289686021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's mostly blocks.
< 1289686034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were 1x1, 1x2, 2x3, 4x2, 4x<longer> and baseplates
< 1289686036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Minecraft has Lego-style physics except idealised (no tipping over, etc.).
< 1289686058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The baseplate is just a LEGO->real world adapter :P
< 1289686060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eh perhaps :P
< 1289686076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, there were different heights too
< 1289686088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though not in the oldest version
< 1289686091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They're supposed to trigger within 25-40 milliseconds, which is well before it can fibrillate your heart.
< 1289686129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wonder who tests these systems.
< 1289686136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Okay... I've got my knife... I'm putting it in..."
< 1289686146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE!" "Now try licking it."
< 1289686151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, seen the test button on them?
< 1289686159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SHUT UP
< 1289686178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P
< 1289686189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That just tests that they function according to design, not that the design itself is safe. :P
< 1289686194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I run ideas for the filesystem/administration part of my services daemon past you?
< 1289686205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure.
< 1289686232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Root directory is /sv. If you object, consider: Configuration gets its own directory, why not services?
< 1289686237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I read somewhere that computers leak minute amounts normally. So at large gaming convetions like dreamhack they have to use one ground fault detector per table rather than one for the building like is normally done
< 1289686245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The service named "foo" is a directory called /sv/foo.
< 1289686248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those minute amounts add up
< 1289686260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: /sv/foo/run is an executable that does the obvious. /sv/foo/needs is a directory; now:
< 1289686282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Either (1) each entry in /sv/foo/needs is a file whose contents are irrelevant, and whose name is the depended-upon service;
< 1289686285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually, it's that cable insulation leaks minute amounts normally.
< 1289686294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A bit more so in 120V/60Hz.
< 1289686296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or (2) each entry in /sv/foo/needs is a symlink that must point to /sv/bar, meaning it depends on the service bar.
< 1289686299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which do you think is nicer?
< 1289686306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which is why GFCIs in the US are supposed to be per-socket.
< 1289686314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because otherwise it trips a lot.
< 1289686315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm. I was told this by someone at university who also work for dreamhack. So hm...
< 1289686350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like the symlink one.
< 1289686419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in Sweden it is the norm to have one per building. At least for normal sized buildings. Perhaps multiple if you have huge buildings.
< 1289686438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, this house has exactly one for example.
< 1289686464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, btw the size of UK plugs seems to be because they contain a fuse
< 1289686470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay. What if the symlink points elsewhere? I mean, really, you shouldn't have a service outside /sv. But consider /sv/bar links to /some/other/dir. This is, of course, just fine. But then what if /sv/foo/needs/bar points to /some/other/dir? Having X point to Y, but then Z pointing to X does not behave the same as Z pointing to Y, is perverse.
< 1289686475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because typical British circuits (especially ring circuits) can deliver more current than many appliance power cords can safely handle, BS 1363 plugs are required to carry a cartridge fuse."
< 1289686592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's a per-house circuit breaker, a per-circuit circuit breaker, *and* a GFCI for each socket where it's likely to get wet in modern US installations.
< 1289686595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Opinions? I think requiring a symlink is best, but I don't know whether to error out if it points to a non-/sv directory or just accept it and use that as the directory.
< 1289686617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think the former, since svmg won't know what service "bar" is if you do that and thus it won't be able to start it (I think), and sv(8) definitely won't be able to start/stop/etc. it.
< 1289686620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm
< 1289686632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In older ones, there's likely to be just fuses. And any to-code addition of grounded sockets will have GFCI sockets with "ungrounded" labelled on it.
< 1289686668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Error out seems reasonable.
< 1289686679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why labeled  that?
< 1289686696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right. But still, that's an X -> Y, but (Z -> X) behaves differently to (Z -> Y) scenario. Weirds me out.
< 1289686702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So people can know that the third prong is not actually a ground, but just used for the GFCI to detect a short to ground.
< 1289686708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1289686715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you allow that?
< 1289686716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1289686725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: With a GFCI it's perfectly safe.
< 1289686739 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why doesn't everyone just use that?
< 1289686751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's nicer to actually have a ground.
< 1289686757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, right.
< 1289686767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Moving on, how about the way to tell svmg "don't respawn this service, thanks".
< 1289686781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: My idea -- which is perhaps a bit odd -- is that you'd chmod -x it for the user svmg is running at (probably root).
< 1289686792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because svmg would go "okay, if I'm not allowed to run this, I won't".
< 1289686801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And because, well, "no(don't) execute".
< 1289686801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's odd about that? Seems entirely reasonable usage.
< 1289686810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The file being /sv/foo/run, of course.
< 1289686815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You chmod +x if you want it to be ran, and chmod -x if you don't want it to be ran.
< 1289686824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's odd because it just... seems odd. But okay, I too think it's a good idea.
< 1289686837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems entirely natural to me.
< 1289686856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sv(8), the management interface, has most of its UI shamelessly stolen from daemontools/runit.
< 1289686874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It sure beats people doing shit like plugging a grounded plug into an ungrounded socket.
< 1289686891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It works, doesn't it?
< 1289686900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "sv d foo" (mnemonic: service down foo) is equivalent to "sv i foo; chmod 655 /sv/foo/run" (i for sigint; I might make this "int" to be a bit less confusing)
< 1289686913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And "sv i foo" is equivalent, of course, to "kill -INT $(sv p foo)", where p = pid.
< 1289686917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, they shouldn't.
< 1289686923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it says so in the manual
< 1289686923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What $(sv p foo) does, I'm not sure.
< 1289686931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yup. Doesn't stop people being idiots.
< 1289686934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Possibly, just spits out /sv/foo/pid.
< 1289686950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which svmg would create with the pid of "run" when it starts, and delete when it exists.
< 1289686953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> pikhq: "sv d foo" (mnemonic: service down foo) is equivalent to "sv i foo; chmod 655 /sv/foo/run" (i for sigint; I might make this "int" to be a bit less confusing)
< 1289686955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong
< 1289686957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chmod would go first
< 1289686957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1289686970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, and I'm going to go ahead and steal /sv/foo/finish, which runs after /sv/foo/run exits.
< 1289686971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed, but your doesn't stop people using such converters for example. Or from replacing the fuse with a straight metal pin
< 1289686982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So you can use "exec" in /sv/foo/run to get pids working, and still clean up after the fact.
< 1289687005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which leads only one aspect of design undecided: services that are essentially one service with a number changed. For instance. all your gettys (let's say 6).
< 1289687013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, there's only so much you can do if people are actually trying to kill themselves.
< 1289687022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, exactly
< 1289687028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Here's what I was thinking: /sv/tty1/run looks at $0, fishes the number out of "/sv/ttyN/run", and starts a getty there.
< 1289687030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(replacing a fuse with a straight metal pin? Oh dear God. I'm frightened.)
< 1289687034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then you symlink /sv/tty[23456] to /sv/tty1.
< 1289687040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This, of course, works just fine, EXCEPT:
< 1289687045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can't stop one service without stopping all the others.
< 1289687053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Since there's only one /sv/ttyN/run file, and it's /sv/tty1/run.
< 1289687055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I heard of that for the main fuse for the house. To save on money having to replace it all the time. Yes horrible
< 1289687058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Any ideas?
< 1289687078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /sv/ttyN/stop ?
< 1289687084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I think it was in US too
< 1289687091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh dear God that's scary.
< 1289687092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: As I said /sv/tty[23456] are a symlink to /sv/tty1.
< 1289687106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes but there are always idiots.
< 1289687117 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /sv/ttyN/stop could look at $0.
< 1289687121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, lets just hope that the fire doesn't spread
< 1289687146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You... do realise that the purpose of this is that stopping a service is an automatic part of the tool?
< 1289687153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And that stopping a service consists of killing the pid?
< 1289687159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (as well as chmodding the run file)
< 1289687165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And that there'd only be one /sv/ttyN/pid for all ttyN?
< 1289687176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because it's just /sv/tty1/pid?
< 1289687217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some stuff wants more than just killing pid to shut down
< 1289687225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, postgresql comes to mind.
< 1289687226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *Ah*.
< 1289687227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: thus /sv/foo/finish
< 1289687233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (But those services are badly designed.)
< 1289687250 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Lilypond not produce DVI output? And it works with LaTeX, it won't work with Plain TeX?
< 1289687252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: svmg would run /sv/foo/finish every time /sv/foo/pid dies, though.
< 1289687260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Perhaps you should just consider it a service to get the standard TTYs rather than getting a single TTY.
< 1289687268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, strongwan doesn't have a pid. It is just messing a lot with kernel. And perhaps a keying daemon
< 1289687273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /sv/ttys
< 1289687275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strongswan*
< 1289687287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then the pid would point to whatever pid the starting shell script would be (which would end with a sleep-forever).
< 1289687301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: When that gets killed -- with no effect, obviously -- /sv/strongswan/finish would be run.
< 1289687306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which would then undo al of that.
< 1289687310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's ugly though. And what about when you run multiple foos for any other foo?
< 1289687312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. I don't think you could shoe-horn that into it.
< 1289687326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why not? You can disable strongswan, no?
< 1289687330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You could just symlink the {run,finish} files, but that'd be ugly.
< 1289687337 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well it isn't standard. it's for ipsec
< 1289687346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Simple question:
< 1289687348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's controlling script has commands like stop and start and so on. So you can just put that as a traditional /etc/init.d/ file
< 1289687352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can enable strongswan, yes?
< 1289687357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And you can disable strongswan, yes?
< 1289687362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes
< 1289687377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /sv/strongswan/start consists of the commands to enable strongswan, followed by:
< 1289687383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while :; do sleep 99999; done
< 1289687391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /sv/strongswan/finish consists of the commands to disable strongswan.
< 1289687393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's it.
< 1289687407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Erm. /sv/strongswan/run, not start.
< 1289687426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: svmg would make /sv/strongswan/pid the pid of the shell script that's sleeping forever. When that gets killed, svmg would run /sv/strongswan/finish.
< 1289687433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Works perfectly. No fuss at all.
< 1289687442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway there are some stuff that doesn't fit into it easily. Stuff that only starts. fsck comes to mind. So does "set cpu-speed governor to ondemand"
< 1289687445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I should include a command sleep-forever, or something.
< 1289687449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does "while :; do sleep 99999; done".
< 1289687456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: isn't a directory for services called /etc/init.d?
< 1289687461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fsck goes into your /etc/rc.start.
< 1289687467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, that's a directory of scripts to control services
< 1289687470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how linear :P
< 1289687475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes
< 1289687478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: put an & after it :P
< 1289687498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to still order it properly though with regards to other stuff
< 1289687501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Setting cpu-speed governor too, although you *could* do it like you do strongswan, but it'd be a waste of a process.
< 1289687514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed
< 1289687522 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the problem, how many things GNU Lilypond requirement for compiling (and for running, too), and yet it won't make proper DVI files.
< 1289687522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So put it in /etc/rc.start :P
< 1289687529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in my model, it's unneeded, as all services are controlled the same way and so there's one simple program to do it
< 1289687545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Lilypond isn't LaTeX or TeX.
< 1289687548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still, this will not have a nice bootchart. Not when compared with upstart or systemd
< 1289687552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just similar to TeX in command syntax.
< 1289687567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hehe, no, it will have a nicer bootchart.
< 1289687571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This will be a *lot* faster than most vother systems.
< 1289687573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*other
< 1289687577 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know it is not LaTeX or TeX. But it says it can work with LaTeX.
< 1289687582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: All it is is dependency-based service starting.
< 1289687583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well perhaps due to doing less
< 1289687588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1289687594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it isn't, it should still produce DVI file. Because DVI file is a good format.
< 1289687604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It, literally, starts up services in optimal, concurrent dependency other.
< 1289687606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*order.
< 1289687613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but shell script during boot is suboptimal. for rc.start
< 1289687631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Make it a C program. It's really irrelevant; I doubt the bootchart freaks even run fsck.
< 1289687638 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has a lot of requirements http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond-program/Requirements#Requirements
< 1289687643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1289687649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, just do
< 1289687661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fsck whatever 2>&1 >>/var/log/fsck.log
< 1289687664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or similar.
< 1289687675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Okay, if fsck fails you need to fix stuff.)
< 1289687686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Those are just dependencies for compiling.
< 1289687688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway there is stuff that can be done in parallel but you need to order them with respect to each other. such as fsck -> mount -> anything that needs that partition
< 1289687699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: See the running dependencies, they are much smaller.
< 1289687715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well this is simple: you have a service that's like a runlevel.
< 1289687726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or network -> anything needing lo,  vs. network -> anything needing actual internet connection
< 1289687739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Come up with a name for each "runlevel", make its dependencies be whatever services you want at that point, put fsck and the like and then wait-forever in its run script, don't have a finish script unless you need to.
< 1289687742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former could be lots of stuff. The latter might be stuff like dyndns client
< 1289687745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ipv6 tunnel
< 1289687746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then have the next runlevel depend on that.
< 1289687752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And have commands and services you need in that.
< 1289687753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you use runlevels!?
< 1289687755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See?
< 1289687757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...
< 1289687770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I WAS SHOWING HOW YOU COULD EMBED THAT KIND OF ORDERING INTO THIS SYSTEM IN A MANNER *LIKE* RUNLEVELS
< 1289687780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1289687788 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did see the running dependencies too. I still think the running dependencies are also more than it should be.
< 1289687837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, will you cache deps? To avoid reading lots of files at boot to figure out the deps. You could stat() to check that cache is up-to-date
< 1289687852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc gentoo did something like that.
< 1289687864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stat() is a lot faster than actually reading the files
< 1289687875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: stat() also gives symlink destination.
< 1289687881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As all dependencies are symlinks... tada.
< 1289687893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So really, I have to list the /needs directory of each service, and stat() them.
< 1289687896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which does not take long at all./
< 1289687897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all.
< 1289687901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well if you want to look at the actual symlink you might want readlink or such
< 1289687906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah.
< 1289687913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Besides, I hardly think 5 second bootup vs 2 second bootup *matters*.
< 1289687927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because (1) who boots that often? and (2) who is THAT impatient?
< 1289687938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I question the tradeoffs taken to super-optimise things really.
< 1289687956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you really want a 2-second boot, write your own init as a C program doing system() a lot. You can even control the exact concurrency in it, too.
< 1289687963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shells are TOO EXPENSIVE!)
< 1289687970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure it does for embedded systems.
< 1289687978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(5 vs 2 that is)
< 1289687980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What kind of embedded system uses an init system X_X
< 1289687994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your dishwasher might! XD
< 1289688010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :executing /etc/init.d/wash
< 1289688017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The day my dishwasher uses Linux is the day I give up on electricity.
< 1289688022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D
< 1289688023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully appliance designers are saner than software developers.
< 1289688031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway that netbsd toaster probably did
< 1289688045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lawl
< 1289688050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure about that? Very often they make too few buttons do too many things
< 1289688062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when hold down for several seconds
< 1289688066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does something else
< 1289688069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "tend to be saner" got lost in my non-linear sentence writing style.
< 1289688091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, I meant appliance internal designers.
< 1289688094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who don't design the interface.
< 1289688099 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1289688102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that could be
< 1289688108 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1289688115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually: more buttons -> easier to use
< 1289688117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very often
< 1289688128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'll get on making the thousand-button dishwasher.
< 1289688134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What you mean to say is too few buttons -> harder to use.
< 1289688142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heard about optimising functions :P
< 1289688156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you just moved way out the other direction
< 1289688214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway to be honest /etc/rc.start is not really that useful as it's basically a service.
< 1289688225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In fact, I am considering extending my design slightly based on that and that ... swan thing.
< 1289688225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my stock example of this are two HP printers. Inkjet yes. One is a simple printer. The other is a multi-function scanner/printer/copier. The plain printer has three buttons: power, arrow-symbol, paper-symbol. And 4 leds: power, X, paper symbol, ink symbol.
< 1289688235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Instead of /sv/foo/run, you can have /sv/foo/start.
< 1289688246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /sv/foo/pid will get "-1" in it or something.
< 1289688246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the multifunction one has a two line display and many buttons with texted labels
< 1289688250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And /sv/foo/start can exit.
< 1289688256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The service is assumed to never die.
< 1289688266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the multifunction one is *way* easier to figure out how to replace ink cartridge in
< 1289688266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The question is then how to kill it :)
< 1289688278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and figure out that it means paper jam
< 1289688283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: People think removing shit = easy to use. This is nothing new.
< 1289688292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and they are wrong
< 1289688311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course. It just happens that a more usable design often tends to have less shit than the existing design.
< 1289688325 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because one of them blinks different patterns for paper jam, out of black ink, out of coloured ink
< 1289688329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But this is just because good design tends to be simple. And people think that "simpler" by a bad definition of simpler implies easier to use.
< 1289688333 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1289688339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because they have a severe brain deficiency in the logic lobe.
< 1289688350 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other says "Out of ink\n<scrolling text>Helpful description</scrolling text>"
< 1289688355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PC LOAD LETTER :P
< 1289688378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helpful description contains which cartridge and also order number
< 1289688399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc also "lift top cover then see instruction on label printed just inside
< 1289688405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I presume Vorpal has seen Office Space.)
< 1289688454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what was PC LOAD LETTER now again?
< 1289688470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh
< 1289688475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually means "give me letter-sized paper", where letter = one of the few american formats (other is legal)
< 1289688483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1289688483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC is just the legacy two-letter code for it when they could only show two letters.
< 1289688488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was included in the longer display for no real reason.
< 1289688493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so tl;dr out of paper
< 1289688498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now tell me you've seen Office Space.
< 1289688498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh
< 1289688515 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Office Space? Is that the weird thing in recent MS office?
< 1289688521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for toolbars
< 1289688526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not: I have no idea
< 1289688542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a bad guess you have to admit)
< 1289688558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's THE iconic tech-cubicle-job comedy. (Even though it involves very little cubicles really).
< 1289688561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh... I can't describe it.
< 1289688570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I would be surprised if a single person on Slashdot had not seen it.
< 1289688571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, youtube link?
< 1289688574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now go watch it.
< 1289688576 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome movie :0
< 1289688577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IT'S A MOVIE
< 1289688579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh
< 1289688581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A FILM, YOU KNOW
< 1289688584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It came out in 1999.
< 1289688584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go watch it!
< 1289688586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then I'll skip
< 1289688593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X
< 1289688603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Vorpal doesn't watch any films at all
< 1289688616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not recently anything longer than 20 minutes no
< 1289688626 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T-th-thats m-my stapler.. Swi... Swingling... M-my st-stapler
< 1289688651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: *Swingline
< 1289688663 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops heh
< 1289688672 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you get the memmo?
< 1289688727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*memo
< 1289688728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1289688783 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-12-221.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289688855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why isn't there a sleep-forever tool in Unix toolchests? Discuss.
< 1289688870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I would call it "die", except that'd be like "exit".
< 1289688932 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To hold one end of pipe?
< 1289688936 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1289688965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Sure. Or, e.g., to have a service process that actually just runs some things and then does nothing.
< 1289688982 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230229224.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289689018 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol leave my typos alone, their self-conscious :(
< 1289689073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No good reason.
< 1289689093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sleeping forever is so obviously something that you would want to do.
< 1289689105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: *they're :D
< 1289689123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so very natural when you've got interrupts.
< 1289689133 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289689189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Why is letter-sized paper used in Canada & Mexico? 8½x11 inches makes no sense at all in metric...
< 1289689202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(215.9mm x 279.4mm)
< 1289689269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I guess with getty you'd just link the run script and deal with it.
< 1289689277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose.
< 1289689287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Although rather than peeking directly at $0, it should probably do ". $(dirname 0)/config" or something.
< 1289689292 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289689295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And have config be
< 1289689298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tty=/dev/tty1
< 1289689300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or similar.
< 1289689398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm. Since wait and friends don't have something like wait_select, seems I'll have a separate process for each server. (I like how this is just looking more and more like daemontools.)
< 1289689427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svmg: Monitor directory, make sure svrun is started for every directory, including new ones.
< 1289689465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svrun: Start ./run if we can execute it; put its pid in ./pid; run ./finish once it dies; repeat.
< 1289689511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And of course sv: take commands, do shit.
< 1289689690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, and rebooting is of course just -x'ing /sv for root (or something of that description?), SIGINTing everything, SIGKILLing everything, and telling the kernel about it.
< 1289690162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Glee.
< 1289690223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Glurk.
< 1289690338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION discovers that his post-processing filters for making bad video look not-terrible also make good video look a bit worse...
< 1289690341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now all you have to do is name the program that does "while true; do sleep 32000; done".
< 1289690350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: snorlax
< 1289690364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Brilliant! Excellent! And a total litigation magnet. Pick again :P
< 1289690395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, okay, snore
< 1289690414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: snore would be the side-effects of sleep :P
< 1289690439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only hibernate weren't already used.
< 1289690466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1289690492 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@69.157.45.121 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289690499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: By the way, I would like to recommend http://rtomayko.github.com/ronn/ as a non-insane way to write man pages. It's based on Markdown.
< 1289690509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Code: https://github.com/rtomayko/ronn) Unfortunately it depends on Ruby.
< 1289690524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice.
< 1289690548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also gem(1), so, yeah, bad language-specific package manager.
< 1289690583 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1289690583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice input, though.
< 1289690590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it produces nice HTML.
< 1289690607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It does. It's also customisable if you really want to.
< 1289690611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can disable the TOC if it's fluff.
< 1289690627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately it uses CSS justification, so no hyphenation or anything. Le sigh.
< 1289690679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even the raw input is quite readable.
< 1289690696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that's because it's based on Markdown.
< 1289690697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, it's just markdown :P
< 1289690725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA "plain text that you can get rich text out of"
< 1289690726 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1289690849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, download finished a while ago btw
< 1289690857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still uploading to you and other peers I see
< 1289690865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suckers :P
< 1289690906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: An hour to go...
< 1289690914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have everything but the GNU and PORT files actually.
< 1289690918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took 2 hours 18 minutes
< 1289690947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, what're you torrenting?
< 1289690959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, tru64
< 1289690965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was younger, I decided to extend odd/even to the rationals
< 1289690979 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares to cringe.
< 1289690982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, how?
< 1289690985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cringes preemptively.
< 1289691000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When reduced to simplest form, even/odd = even, odd/odd = odd, odd/even = third option which I called "hodd"
< 1289691005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses the decringer on elliott 
< 1289691012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I shouldn't really cringe. That he thought about mathematics is a good sign.
< 1289691013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hodd.
< 1289691014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really now.
< 1289691028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half-odd. Better than "half-even"
< 1289691029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hoxford is very hodd."
< 1289691038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: heven
< 1289691044 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1289691065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that system doesn't make a lot of sense
< 1289691079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would even/odd be even, and odd/even be half-odd?
< 1289691084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about even/even?
< 1289691094 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even/even -> something that isn't even/even
< 1289691100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1289691101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point
< 1289691102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: even/even isn't simplest form.
< 1289691109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true. Just sleepy
< 1289691124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. What kind of structure are the even integers?
< 1289691137 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this system fit into the multiplication laws. odd * odd = odd
< 1289691140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so 1/2 was hodd. But 2/3 was even?
< 1289691146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems backwards to me
< 1289691146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes
< 1289691155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's hodd * even?
< 1289691159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't tell
< 1289691159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why that way around
< 1289691178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had 1/2 be even or something, then even * even = unpredictable
< 1289691186 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which violates even * even = even
< 1289691189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good point
< 1289691206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, even/odd * odd/even = odd/odd = even.
< 1289691244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless even/even = even, in which case it still holds.
< 1289691249 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/1 * 1/4
< 1289691256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: even * hodd = odd
< 1289691259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := even
< 1289691261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to restate your line.
< 1289691278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is inconsistent then
< 1289691282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamnned multiplicative functions
< 1289691305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1289691308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even * odd) / (odd * even) = even/even which isn't simplest form
< 1289691320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I have no idea what Phantom_Hoover's on about
< 1289691323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I didn't pay attention at all in class that week, because we had a piss-poor substitute lecturer
< 1289691328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither do I...
< 1289691337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I failed at modular arithmetic.
< 1289691414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, consider this:
< 1289691420 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturals are simply somenumber/1
< 1289691435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integers too...
< 1289691490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait, -x'ing /sv is totally unneeded. I think.
< 1289691501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Surely if you kill an svrun process -- those are the ones run for each service -- it'll stop supervising that service?
< 1289691509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But then, svmg should probably respawn it. Hm.
< 1289691511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So odd/1 needs to be odd, and even/1 needs to be even
< 1289691588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hodd" is a weird term, since it's really more of an anti-even. It sucks evenness away
< 1289691615 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289691724 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-34-128.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289691768 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you can't divide by even
< 1289691797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And predict the result, you mean?
< 1289691805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no, you just can't"
< 1289691810 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a simple way to explain what "keywords" means in Magic Set Editor, so that I can explain the similar thing in TeXnicard?
< 1289691820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't even with just integers
< 1289691830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4/4 is odd. 8/4 is even
< 1289691839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/4 is outside the scope of integers
< 1289691880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what's wrong with multiplicative functions? aren't they like the sexiest ring ever
< 1289691903 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yeah, that's what i mean. you can't do it.
< 1289691932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is an oddist
< 1289691939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just plain odd
< 1289691948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is a significant problem? You also can't multiply hodd * even
< 1289691958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And predict the result
< 1289691970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing, really
< 1289691971 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd and even are just pet names for the elements of Z_2
< 1289691980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a field, even is its zero element
< 1289691986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't divide by it
< 1289692024 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes. I think that can be a way of it working?
< 1289692035 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what?
< 1289692081 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That you can use "odd" and "even" for elements of Z_2 and then multiply by them. (You can't divide always if it is Z)
< 1289692142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parity is a ring homomorphism from Z to Z_2
< 1289692221 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... "This stuff is like a molotov cocktail for your coronary arteries!".
< 1289692222 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think it is now a better way to say it.
< 1289692237 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What stuff is?
< 1289692238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1289692303 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some "heart healthy" margarine. Oh, that stuff contains "partially hydrogenated <some oil>", a.k.a. techno trans fats.
< 1289692473 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... If some product around here has the "heart healthy" logo, I interpret it as "heart dangerous".
< 1289692508 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about health tho
< 1289692546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably live forever anyway
< 1289692571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Anything that is a form of keyword in Magic.
< 1289692588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: For more details, read the hundred-odd page Comprehensive Rules.
< 1289692591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's keyword
< 1289692597 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not to mention, those products likely taste like shit...)
< 1289692603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trample, first strike etc?
< 1289692606 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not
< 1289692613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Those are examples of keywords, yes.
< 1289692624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1289692663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Oh, margarine. Tastes like shit and... Tastes like shit.
< 1289692664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what's that logo in finnish, maybe i know it
< 1289692676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translate the picture
< 1289692676 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "Parempi valinta".
< 1289692685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. okay i'm not sure i know that.
< 1289692688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, real and pure butter ftw
< 1289692706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned straight. Butter is delicious.
< 1289692713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butter 3
< 1289692715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1289692719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not healthy in too large doses either
< 1289692758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289692759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is such a thing as too much fat.
< 1289692762 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, everything is a poison with large enough dose... But just how much that would be for butter (likely: a shitton of it)...
< 1289692793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And butter is nothing more than an emulsion of water in fat, so... Yeah.