00:00:34 Ilari, true but some faster than others. I would suspect butter becomes bad in doeses smaller than, say, vitamin C. :P 00:00:45 Erm? 00:01:04 iirc vitamin C is quite hard to take too much of 00:01:17 10 grams of butter is nothing. 10g of vitamin C is quite a lot... 00:01:28 Ilari, I meant compared to normal 00:01:29 pikhq: i hate setsid 00:01:34 Ilari, as in 200% of normal 00:01:39 Ilari, or such 00:01:47 Ilari, not in absolute weight 00:01:47 can you actually take visible amounts of it? are c vitamin pills actually just... c vitamin? 00:02:33 compared to normal? 00:03:04 lawl @ vitamin pills 00:03:05 indeed 00:03:13 oklopol: Some people suggest a 6 to 18 gram dose. (the efficacy of this has not been shown in clinical trials) 00:03:26 GRAMS. 00:03:40 okay, that's what i thought 00:03:47 i was still surprised tho 00:04:08 for some reason "vitamin" sounds like something you only take one microgram a week 00:04:10 Which, incidentally, *has* been shown to have negative side effects. 00:04:40 for rats LD_50 of vitamin C is "11.9 grams per kilogram of body weight" according to wikipedia. Which seems rather non-toxic 00:04:54 it is unknown for humans 00:04:54 rats can't be poisoned 00:05:00 they are immortal 00:05:09 yeah sure.... 00:05:14 you never believe me 00:05:35 Vorpal: Lethal dosage is generally well above where negative side effects appear... 00:05:37 oklopol, I refuse to believe that statement! 00:05:42 pikhq, true 00:06:06 Anyways. People can clearly get away with taking freaking grams of Vitamin C. 00:06:27 pikhq, yep, you need quite a bit for indigestion. Which seems to be the main side effect for large doses 00:06:28 Wonder what LD_50 of linolic acid would be to rats... 00:06:54 Not that it's a good idea — people can also get away with eating kilograms of just fat, but it's not exactly a good idea. 00:07:08 indeed 00:07:45 -!- gm|lap has joined. 00:08:01 Overeating is not a good idea (fortunately, it isn't easy to do)... 00:08:37 pikhq, also wikipedia notes that the method of death in rats by vitamin C is unknown, with speculation about it being "more mechanical than chemical" 00:09:05 Yeah, it jams up their brain. 00:09:07 krrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 00:09:33 elliott, well I presume it means something less literal than that :P 00:10:37 Whacky ways to die: Some chemical that disturbs mitochondrial proton storage (for ATP synthethis): Overdose on it and death is because body cooks itself with all the heat from metabolism... 00:10:43 # sleep 1 ensures that xargs will have time to start up 00:10:43 # this makes pslist less prone to random jitter 00:10:43 pslist=`{ sleep 1; ps -A -o comm=; } | xargs` 00:10:44 heh 00:10:49 Vorpal: So, something similar to how water has an LD50 because it can cause cells to burst via osmosis. 00:11:03 pikhq: water can fuck up your something-something balance 00:11:17 Too much water can fuck up a lot of things. 00:11:17 ais523 said he drunk something that was specifically balanced so that LD50 = infinity :P 00:11:26 iirc 00:12:38 Is called "saline". 00:12:50 pslist=`{ sleep 1; ps -A -o comm=; } | xargs` 00:13:01 I love how, naively read, this duplicates every process :) 00:13:04 Vorpal: So, something similar to how water has an LD50 because it can cause cells to burst via osmosis. <-- presumably 00:13:09 pikhq: No, it was actually *really* impossible to overdose on. 00:13:12 Vorpal: Torrent done. brb. 00:13:24 elliott, seed it 00:13:28 elliott, to 1.0 00:14:08 elliott, otherwise you are a douchebag to all the other peers 00:16:21 Heh... I don't remember what was LC_50 for freons... Something really high. 00:16:37 IIRC, something like 13%... 00:16:52 Ilari, uh... freons? Well do you include the ozone hole then? 00:20:14 you could presumably calculate a planet wide LD_50 00:23:53 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:29:29 night 00:30:15 oklopol: they are annoying to work with imo 00:30:23 and I say that because I'm working with them right now 00:30:28 and they're annoying :X 00:44:34 -!- cal153 has quit. 00:47:46 Vorpal: I will. Although there will be obvious computer-turned-off outages. 00:48:40 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: Later). 00:50:06 Anyone experienced with Kbuild (i.e. make menuconfig style systems)? 00:50:07 pikhq? :P 00:56:27 Not I. 00:57:29 -!- jcp has joined. 00:58:39 Vorpal: "WARNING : Ethernet adapter, which is assigned to CHARON, must not be used by third-party programs." 00:59:46 It doesn't work :P 00:59:57 pikhq: Are you suuuure? 01:01:36 i read that as CHACARON 01:02:53 pikhq: BTW, BusyBox lowdown: It can build everything dynamically linked to a library, but it can't build that library statically yet. 01:03:02 pikhq: Apparently patches are accepted :P 01:03:11 pikhq: But I'll have to add a setting to the Kbuild... and I have no idea how to. 01:14:58 -!- dbelange has joined. 01:15:01 http://ask.slashdot.org/story/10/11/13/1742253/Which-Language-To-Learn 01:15:52 coppro: is that the guy or is that the other guy 01:16:00 god, it's so hard to tell you canadians apart, why can't there be only one of you? 01:17:08 elliott: the guy 01:17:14 * dbelange adjusts cigarillo 01:18:05 coppro: have you got sticks and rocks? 01:18:10 or will we have to settle for rocks and sticks 01:18:51 sticks and stones 01:19:17 maybe words hurt dbc 01:19:19 *dbelange 01:20:30 elliott: rocks and tree 01:20:32 *tress 01:20:35 and trees and rocks 01:20:38 and rocks and trees 01:20:41 and trees and rocks 01:20:44 and rocks and trees 01:20:44 coppro: Tress *and* trees? 01:20:46 By gum. 01:20:46 and trees and rocks 01:20:49 and rocks and trees 01:20:52 and trees and rocks 01:20:54 and water 01:21:32 coppro: But what about the tress? 01:21:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asqWMKju-0A 01:24:18 elliott: rocks and tree 01:24:20 *tress 01:24:24 coppro: I'm asking about the tress. 01:26:24 -!- p_q has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 01:29:57 pikhq: Let's hear it for dup2! Best system call in all the land! 01:31:08 pikhq: Hmm. Opinion: Services should be run with >log 2>&1, not having stderr to a separate file. 01:31:20 Justification: What kind of service prints to stdout, anyway? And it's useful to see the ordering. 01:34:14 --w----r-T 1 elliott elliott 3 Nov 14 01:33 log 01:34:16 Mode fail. 01:39:02 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 01:42:09 -!- sftp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:44:10 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi. 01:48:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cDFB00iVp0 01:49:12 (and yes, the physics is wrong. The person responsible for the comments has informed me of this) 01:51:40 Your physics is wrong. 01:52:26 coppro: It's like a spinning top but AWESOME. 01:52:40 Wait it's floating. 01:52:44 Never mind, it's just awesome. 01:53:02 yeah, it's actually floating 01:53:21 physics is silly. 01:53:39 all the reasearch going into HTSCs for maglevs could make the best trains ever 01:53:53 I also love how superconductors basically make holes in magnetic fields 01:59:32 right now, i'm debugging my service manager. 's integer printing function 01:59:34 (fuck stdio! :P) 01:59:51 also really cool are maglev systems that require no electromagnets 02:00:02 i should just use libowfat or something 02:00:33 the track consists of copper coils, and the train has permanent magnets. The train's motion induces a sufficient magnetic field to levitate it 02:00:48 downside is there's a lot of electromagnetic drag 02:00:59 and you'd need some serious engines (jet engines, anyone?) 02:02:24 what's wrong with electromagic : 02:02:26 :p 02:02:28 *magnets 02:02:31 (fucking magnets, how do they work?) 02:07:31 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: I am sorry I am late.). 02:09:35 Wow. That's awesome. Liquid nitrogen is apparently used to work on pipes... 02:09:52 When there's not an off-valve, they'll use it to freeze the pipe so that water won't flow through it. 02:09:55 Awesome. 02:11:35 heh 02:12:53 epic 02:13:10 elliott: electromagnets require power 02:13:19 coppro: So do engines :P 02:13:45 elliott: But if you have a permanent magnet, you have more power to spend 02:14:02 on noisy jet engines :P 02:14:53 well, that would be needed if you wanted to go really fast, yes 02:15:04 Or just a vaccuum. 02:15:09 >:D 02:15:31 :P 02:15:50 although it would be really cool to have a train that ran in an evacuated tube 02:16:00 the efficiency would be mindboggling 02:16:43 (but the construction costs would be obscene, and safety would be a massive concern 02:16:58 Works better if you move everyone TO THE MOON 02:17:10 Problem: now you need to have not-vaccuum. 02:17:26 you could even use maglev in a vacuum 02:17:27 Erm, vacuum. 02:17:34 Darned hypercorrection. 02:17:39 and if you use alternative electromagnetic propulsion... 02:17:42 VROOOM 02:33:25 although it would be really cool to have a train that ran in an evacuated tube 02:33:29 i can see problems with entering the tube... 02:41:18 You can enter my tube any time ;) 02:41:48 Or: I can see problems with entering your mom's tube (chlamydia) 02:41:59 dbelange: Sure, we can put a gigantic train in your urethra. 02:42:02 Have fun with that. 02:42:06 It might rip. 02:45:33 google hits for "have sex with my life": 3 02:45:53 google hits for "fuck my life": 6770000 02:46:34 googly hits for "engage in sexual intercourse with my sentient existence": 0 02:47:01 Fuck ML 02:49:13 yeah, that language sucks 02:49:16 dbelange: ML is a perfectly cromulent language! 02:49:34 cromulent 42 ni ni ni 02:49:46 I grok what u did thar 02:50:31 the scary thing is the dbelange fits right in 02:51:27 dbelange is dead, netcraft confirms it 02:51:30 #meme 02:52:08 coppro: i was going to argue, but yeah :P 02:52:55 (Imagine a Beowulf cluster of dbelanges.) 02:59:06 wtf, why does my program work when writing to stdout but not this file... 03:03:31 elliott: because you lol 03:05:52 coppro: but my code am perfect 03:12:18 not am you amn't 03:14:38 coppro: mayn't amn't is't? 03:21:11 coppro: no i swear to god, "pid" changes depending on what file i write it to 03:24:48 elliott: sounds right 03:24:59 coppro: BUT THAT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL 03:25:01 it's just an fd 03:25:02 ??? 03:25:13 it's 9389 or similar when fd=1 03:25:20 but 0, always, when fd=thefile 03:26:24 coppro: wow, posix requires pid_t to be signed 03:26:28 coppro: them negative pids 03:28:53 writepid(1, pid); 03:28:53 writes(1,"\n"); 03:28:53 writepid(fd, pid); 03:28:53 writes(fd, "\n"); 03:29:05 coppro: I swear to god, this writes "0\n" to the file and the right pid to stdout. 03:29:08 I DON'T GET IT FFFFFFFFFFF 03:35:03 elliott: your mother 03:35:21 coppro: this is literally driving me insane explain it 03:35:35 elliott: dbelange's mother 03:35:46 coppro has been taken over by dbelange 03:37:55 coppro: no seriously, what??? 03:38:10 it isn't an io problem, i checked 03:38:17 the integer is literally 0 then and only then 03:38:27 -!- Alegend has joined. 03:38:53 elliott: you're a loser 03:39:04 coppro: i know but why 03:39:06 whyyy 03:39:08 Oh pooppy, why ya gotta be so mean? 03:39:36 writel(1, pid); 03:39:38 writes(1,"\n"); 03:39:38 writel(fd, pid); 03:39:38 writes(fd, "\n"); 03:39:38 writel(1, pid); 03:39:38 writes(1,"\n"); 03:39:45 Gregor: HOW CAN WRITEL SEE PID AS 0 IN THE SECOND CALL, AND IN *NO OTHER CALL*? 03:39:51 I *checked*, it is actually seeing it as 0. 03:39:55 int writel(int fd, long i) 03:39:57 { 03:39:57 char s[(sizeof(long)*CHAR_BIT)/3]; 03:39:57 char *t = s + sizeof(s); 03:39:57 if (!i) return writes(fd, "0"); 03:40:00 That bit of code *gets executed*. 03:40:45 argh damn you perfect numbers! 03:45:52 also <3 <3 <3 metroid music 03:45:54 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 03:47:27 " 03:47:29 If pid is negative but not (pid_t)-1, sig will be sent to 03:47:29 all processes whose process group ID is equal to the abso- 03:47:29 lute value of pid and for which the process has permission 03:47:29 to send a signal." 03:47:29 jesus! 03:49:09 http://thehiawathatriad.org/home/?page_id=1780 "Web 4.0, IPv8 & Exploration" 03:49:11 i smell paper generator 03:49:28 HELLO, MORTALS! 03:50:05 `/win 11 03:50:06 No output. 03:55:18 Goodnight; bye. 03:55:18 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:04:06 -!- Alegend has quit (Quit: Page closed). 04:21:42 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:41:02 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:41:08 What does this mean? sdIv:;aL{l*h?[?Q4-xiYf9QSi3U&7edDCVZ3z I saw a request "CONNECT 213.92.8.7:31204 HTTP/1.0" on the log file (this request was denied; I do not allow that method to be used on my server), but when I try to connect to it, that is the strange message I get. 04:43:37 I also get a lot of requests that seem like they were probably meant for other servers. 04:43:56 Such as this one: "GET /m/search?site=images&q=true+blood+cover HTTP/1.1" 04:45:08 I also get many proxy requests. 04:49:38 And what request is this? "GET /img8/components/com_google_maps/google_maps.php?mosConfig_absolute_path=http://musicadelibreria.net/footer?? HTTP/1.1" 04:50:21 Or the even more strange one that inserts /?S=D/ between /img8/ and /components/ 04:52:54 I also seem to get many requests for Mario Fan Games Galaxy Wiki. Well, too bad; my computer does not serve that wiki. 04:54:47 in other news, brussel sprouts are slightly bitter 04:55:27 If you do not like it, then do not eat it. But if you like it despite slightly bitter, then please eat it anyways. 04:57:02 I don't not like it so I won't not eat it, and since I do like it I will eat it anyways. 04:57:14 OK 04:57:17 incidentally I just ran out of sprouts 04:57:43 Well, TOO BAD NOW YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT 04:57:50 and the holy mountain is a mighty weird movie 04:58:08 Then write a review of it. 04:58:36 No. That's not a thing I do. 04:58:54 Then someone else can write a review of it. 04:59:08 they probably already have 04:59:13 OK 04:59:36 OK. We're in agreement then. 04:59:41 Yes 05:00:24 this movie features a dwarf with no legs and no arms 05:04:54 Why do I get all of these strange requests on my HTTP server? 05:05:00 I even got this: "\xf9\xee\xe8\x1clg\x9e\xbe\xf7\xbcI\xf6\xa6\x9f\xc3\xb9\xcdV\xce\xabF\x82\xf3\x1e)\xf0" 05:06:26 Spamtastic. 05:07:57 http://yfrog.com/i3offmodelandersonp That's one amazing mouth. 05:08:12 It's, all, 90° to the right of the face. 05:59:11 zzo38: What host do those strange requests have? 06:35:59 Ilari: They come from various sources 06:36:13 I do not know what Host: header or any other headers 06:36:29 (The headers and POST data are not logged) 06:36:46 (But the response code is logged, and the response length is also logged) 06:56:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:10:20 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:15:46 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:17:24 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:27:07 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:29:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:29:57 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 07:56:57 -!- cheater99 has joined. 07:57:08 -!- cheater99 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:30:25 -!- dbelange has left (?). 08:35:40 ugh, Evolution has managed to screw up in a really crazy way I haven't seen before 08:35:54 there are a huge number of messages in a folder, but it isn't displaying any but one of them no matter what I do 08:36:20 (the messages themselves are still there; I managed to import the folder into Evolution by referencing it by filename and they all came back again, and checked against a backup to make sure) 08:36:55 also, the folder in question is impossible to delete, because it tries to delete "all messages" in the folder, missing the 1672 that aren't shown, then complains the folder isn't empty 08:37:15 I tried overwriting the only differing file with one from my backup, but Evolution just changes it back 08:38:07 O_o 08:38:17 is it IMAP? 09:01:18 local mbox, getting the messages via POP3 09:01:39 well, that particular mbox is getting the messages via me moving them from elsewhere 09:04:20 :/ 09:05:02 I know what triggered the glitch, too: me pressing return in a search box with no text in it 09:05:12 I won't do that again... 09:05:36 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:15:30 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:36:27 Heh... Reminds me of trying to open maildir in mutt that is missing some of the required subdirectories... 09:58:58 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:07:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:17:32 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:18:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:23:18 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:31:45 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:41:39 -!- kar8nga has joined. 10:47:18 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:52:39 -!- gm|lap has quit (Quit: ilua). 11:27:37 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 11:31:03 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:34:00 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:43:03 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:50:30 -!- wareya has joined. 12:02:01 don't some trains already levitate? or maybe i just saw that in a dream. 12:02:27 They do if they're maglev, but that doesn't really count. 12:02:58 sure it does 12:03:07 it's just so much cooler with a superconductor 12:03:13 it's literally a floating hunk of rock 12:03:22 alrighty 12:03:24 I have a great temptation to redo my Newtonian simulator with relativistic mechanics... 12:03:37 coppro, hardly rock. 12:03:45 Phantom_Hoover: fine. metal 12:04:22 And you need to have a massive cooling apparatus next to it, which detracts from the awesome somewhat. 12:04:45 all you need is liquid nitrogen 12:04:46 incidentally, my school apparently leaves access open to the N_{2(\ell)} and CO_{2(\ell)} 12:05:31 My parents did some stuff with liquid nitrogen when I was little, although the reason we had it was rather prosaic. 12:05:50 you can do tons of cool stuff with liquid N2 12:06:23 (I should mention that the liquid CO2 is very dangerous as it's at high pressure) 12:07:01 -!- asiekierka has joined. 12:07:56 coppro, what can you even do with it? 12:08:26 Phantom_Hoover: make YBCO superconduct, for one thing! 12:08:29 It would either solidify or evaporate when you let it out of its high-pressure environment. 12:08:41 oh, CO2 12:08:47 dunno 12:08:49 chemistry stuff 12:09:53 Doing a relativistic simulator could be tricky, though... 12:10:13 For one thing, you can't really escape having a fixed frame of reference easily. 12:10:29 And then the FP calculations will screw everything up. 12:12:22 hmm 12:12:53 My Newtonian one already has stuff screwed up by FP. 12:12:59 I wonder if it's possible to physically touch supercritical CO2 without killing yourself... no, actually, it must be 12:13:18 but you'd need a hyperbaric chamber and the wait would probably be far more than it's worth 12:13:23 Since I set \delta{t} to be 0.1, so the timekeeping gets steadily less accurate. 12:13:49 You know, we really need to make a plugin for XChat which renders LaTeX. 12:24:15 use infinity precision 12:24:45 (and symbolic math, of course) 12:29:54 you model the entire system as a gigantic DE 12:29:56 and then solve 12:35:36 Special Relativistic or General Relativistic? 12:37:12 Ilari, the first, to begin with. 12:46:08 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:49:01 -!- sftp has joined. 13:39:09 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:39:34 Could be fun to write planetary orbit simulator that allows to choose between few different models of gravity... 13:43:57 Like, more than just newtonian and GR (there are more models than that...) 13:47:28 -!- elliott has joined. 13:48:29 I don't know more worthwhile-to-implement motion models than newtonian and SR. With gravity, it gets more diverse... 13:56:25 Well, doing GR would be a start towards the non-Euclidean raytracer. 13:59:04 Seriously, I *cannot* figure out what is wrong with this C. 13:59:28 elliott, link? 14:00:19 Phantom_Hoover: http://sprunge.us/iZJa 14:00:31 Phantom_Hoover: The same number in the nine-thousands (for me) is written twice to stdout. This is the PID. 14:00:37 Phantom_Hoover: But to the logfile, "0\n" is ALWAYS written. 14:00:48 Phantom_Hoover: My if (!i) code path IS being executed; I have changed what it outputs and it outputs those things. 14:01:04 Phantom_Hoover: HOW is i different for the writel call -- literally, it becomes a different value -- when all I change is the fd argument, and it works after with fd=1??? 14:01:22 Have you tried picking it apart with a debugger? 14:01:31 no, gdb makes me cry, but i might. 14:01:39 Or stracing it? 14:01:46 i know what syscalls it executes 14:01:52 the wrong ones :) well, wrong arguments 14:06:41 Phantom_Hoover: It works when run under gdb. I am not kidding you. 14:06:50 Phantom_Hoover: It does not when run normally. 14:06:54 Ah, a Schrodinbug 14:07:00 Uninitialised variables? 14:07:32 if ((fd = creat("pid", 0644)) < 0) diewith("creat", errno); 14:07:41 Phantom_Hoover: It would be fairly hard not to initialise fd there. 14:07:49 As in impossible. 14:07:55 Hmm. 14:08:01 char s[(sizeof(long)*CHAR_BIT)/3]; 14:08:04 This is uninitialised, but I do 14:08:07 return write(fd, t, sizeof(s) - (t-s)); 14:08:10 where t = s + something 14:08:16 and I've initialised t to t+(that length)-1 14:08:22 so that's all initialised 14:09:29 Just checked writel; yes, even outside of gdb, it gets the right argument. 14:09:32 It just does the wrong thing with it. 14:09:49 Huh. 14:10:10 ...wtf. 14:10:12 Ohh. 14:10:31 Phantom_Hoover: You won't believe this, but it was a mistake I had with fork(). 14:10:44 if (!(pid = fork())) run(); 14:10:52 Phantom_Hoover: See the issue here? *My run() finishes*. 14:11:12 Phantom_Hoover: So since fork() returns 0 for the subprocess, since that's how it signals that, pid = 0 for that and the subprocess just happens to write to pid quicker... 14:11:13 >_< 14:14:57 if ((fd = open("/dev/null", O_WRONLY)) < 0) diewith("open", errno); 14:14:58 if (dup2(fd, 1) < 0) diewith("dup2", errno); 14:14:58 if (dup2(fd, 2) < 0) diewith("dup2", errno); 14:15:08 Phantom_Hoover: C -- because >/dev/null 2>&1 should take three lines of code! 14:24:31 pikhq: I would like to express an opinion. 14:24:46 pikhq: WHY DOESN'T THE STANDARD UNIX API HAVE AN EASY WAY TO DETECT WHEN A FILE'S PERMISSIONS CHANGE 14:24:53 (blocking) 14:30:22 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:30:33 elliott, find the permissions and see if they've changed? 14:30:41 Phantom_Hoover: In a tight loop? 14:30:43 -!- Velmont has left (?). 14:30:44 And hog all the CPU? 14:34:10 Do it every once in a while? 14:35:08 Phantom_Hoover: So -- "poll every N seconds". 14:35:16 I will just defer to Vorpal here because his hate of this is one thing he's actually right about. 14:38:22 gamin better have a nice api 14:38:29 Gamin? 14:39:01 http://swoolley.org/man.cgi/3/fam ha ha ha 14:39:02 -!- sftp_ has joined. 14:39:06 Phantom_Hoover: a file monitoring implementation 14:39:21 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:39:31 What are you trying to do now? 14:41:47 Phantom_Hoover: Uhh, if I monitor the file I can get a notification when its permissions change... 14:41:47 Duh. 14:42:00 No, I mean generally. 14:43:58 Phantom_Hoover: Write svmg, like all the previous times :P 14:44:06 svmg? 14:44:14 SerVice ManaGer. 14:46:16 -!- cheater99 has joined. 14:54:13 Which does? 14:54:38 Phantom_Hoover: Manage services. 14:54:42 Well, it manages services, obvio... 14:54:45 OK. 14:54:57 Wait, is this your replacement for init? 14:55:57 Phantom_Hoover: Yes. 14:56:21 Phantom_Hoover: AKA "Let's see how much we can directly reimplement daemontools and runit with hopeless naïvety and not be a total ripoff". 15:03:54 123 15:03:54 234 15:03:54 345 15:11:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:12:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:16:09 "Users, especially administrators, who are associated, or suspected of association, with sites which are hypercritical of Wikipedia can expect their Wikipedia activities as well as their activities on the hypercritical website, to be closely monitored." 15:16:11 HYPERCRITICAL 15:19:13 elliott: lawl, where's that from? 15:19:26 Gregor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/MONGO#Karma 15:19:34 Gregor: Amusingly not a single one of those motions got a single negative vote 15:19:48 Gregor: DEMOCRACY OF THE SMALL HIVEMIND! 15:20:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EncyclopediaDramatica.png I wonder how many days it took to wait for the ED front page to be SFW enough to include 15:21:44 -!- wareya_ has joined. 15:24:46 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:32:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbFz--GCkOM In which a Winnie the Pooh film is made that, contrary to all expectations anyone may have had, is not 3D. Or ugly. 15:33:48 Oh bother. 15:34:02 Does it have that bitch instead of Christopher Robin? :P 15:36:02 Gregor: Nope. 15:36:12 Gregor: "this new movie is an adaption of five A. A. Milne Pooh stories which Disney hasn't used before" --reddit 15:36:17 Gregor: It actually looks really good :P 15:37:41 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:39:21 -!- kar8nga has joined. 15:41:28 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 15:56:38 so i heard there are now brain reading hats you can buy 15:56:48 could someone link me to one 15:56:52 i'll pay anything 15:58:47 oklopol: well there are mind-control interfaces for computers. they sort of work 15:59:16 oklopol: you could do this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrainGate! 15:59:21 implant 15:59:38 oklopol: mind-control gaymin interface: http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/ocz_peripherals/nia 15:59:52 I went to a university with one of them. It didn't work too well, although I don't think the system was that sophisticated. 16:00:09 elliott: Looks comfortable and stylish. 16:00:12 Being cheap and practical was a priority. 16:00:22 Gregor: BrainGate or nia? :P 16:00:56 elliott: Both! 8-D 16:01:15 The one I saw worked by monitoring your occipital lobe. 16:01:16 i don't care what it looks or how much it costs, as long as i can write binary without moving 16:01:23 what it looks. 16:01:38 elliott: Also, I think you typo'd "gay men" in the link to nia. 16:01:56 As it is clearly a gay men interface. ... the best kind of interface? :P 16:02:00 You looked at a blinking light, and it did a Fourier transform on the brainwaves and checked for a frequency component. 16:02:23 Phantom_Hoover: And what if you're blind? Or stupid? 16:02:31 :P 16:02:35 Gregor, if you're blind, it doesn't work. 16:02:49 If you don't have a signal coming from your occipital lobe, it doesn't work. 16:03:20 Well, I say "your" inaccurately. It wouldn't have been possible to clear using it on me with an ethics board, apparently. 16:03:56 Gregor: I was going for "gaymen" without being completely opaque :P 16:04:04 oklopol: http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/ocz_peripherals/nia 16:04:06 oklopol: go buy it 16:04:13 oklopol: it even comes with windows-based configuration 16:04:31 i hope it's easy to get the data out of that 16:04:35 oklopol: "By translating facial expressions, eye movements and concentrated brainwave activity into PC game keyboard and mouse controls, nia opens new." so just make sure it only listens to the brainwaves 16:04:39 oklopol: sure, it presses keys 16:04:42 okay. 16:04:43 so just read a key at a time 16:04:50 oklopol, you could write binary in the visual one easily enough. 16:04:56 oklopol: hopefully you can disable the facial expressions/eye movements stuff, although gotta say, this'll be very few bits per second :P 16:04:59 oklopol: or... a few seconds per bit 16:04:59 Given a large enough frequency gap. 16:05:25 And you could probably expand it to pairs of bits, if not triplets. 16:05:41 elliott: few seconds per bit for you maybe. 16:05:48 oklopol: osnap 16:05:49 i'd totally own at that 16:06:03 anyway all i want to do is get binary output and train myself fast at it 16:06:06 oklopol: good luck :P apparently people have managed to play games with it, although it is a bit unpredictable 16:06:16 oklopol: and i imagine they had it looking at facial expressions / eye movements too 16:06:26 dunno if you can disable that. hopefully :P 16:06:52 hopefully you will actually get the data it reads out unprocessed 16:06:54 Gregor: i forget, do string buffers go first or last in C 16:07:02 like if you're converting foo to string, string is first or last 16:07:40 I have no idea what you mean by what you just said :P 16:07:45 Gregor: 16:07:51 char *footostr(foo x, char *buf); 16:07:54 char *footostr(char *buf, foo x); 16:07:57 Gregor: i forget which is the done thing 16:08:02 Usually first. 16:08:07 The "to" is always first usually. 16:08:17 right 16:08:54 char *t = s + DECIMALOF(long) - 1; 16:08:58 #define DECIMALOF(t) ((sizeof(t)*8)/3) 16:09:02 Gregor: i sorta totally blame you for this :) 16:09:08 works well though! 16:09:11 haha fuck you malloc 16:09:48 EISDIR An ELF interpreter was a directory. 16:10:00 ENOENT The file filename or a script or ELF interpreter does not exist, 16:10:01 or a shared library needed for file or interpreter cannot be 16:10:01 found. 16:10:09 ...fucking ambiguity 16:10:19 Oh well, what kind of shithead uses shared libraries, anyway. 16:14:04 yeah that thing's too hard to buy, i wish there was a page where i could just pour 10 times the money a thing costs and they'd just send it to me 16:14:20 i don't want to look at fucking retarded webpages 16:15:10 preferably not a page, more like a shop, so i could walk instead of browsing 16:17:06 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:17:25 oklopol: it's called a shop 16:17:45 oklopol: amazon ships to you guys right? 16:19:03 oklopol: http://www.amazon.com/OCZ-OCZMSNIA-NIA-Impulse-Actuator/dp/B00168VU4U 16:20:27 oh that thing's on amazon, i searched with a few stupid queries and all i got was books 16:21:40 oklopol: i don't know if you can disable the eye movement stuff and the like so uh 16:21:43 close your eyes and be very still 16:21:56 (use headphones to listen to the output, just record yourself saying "zero" and "one" and have your program play them) 16:22:09 -!- sftp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:22:34 hmmhmm. 16:22:47 -!- sftp_ has joined. 16:23:54 Dear Hulu/Syfy (I don't know who to swear at): You said I'd be able to watch episodes 30 days after airing. Did you just flat out forget? 16:24:16 well i'll buy it just in case it is cool. 16:24:23 oklopol: can i have some money 16:24:27 since you don't care about it 16:24:29 no, fuck you 16:24:32 oklopol: in return i'll be awesome?? 16:24:35 you owe me 50 16:24:35 oklopol: BUT WHAT IF I'M AWESOME 16:24:41 oklopol: not yet i don't :P 16:24:52 TWO MORE YEARS 16:24:54 no i mean because of clicking 16:24:59 oklopol: that was *not* 50 16:25:00 that was 25 16:25:01 soon i'll owe you money 16:25:02 dickhead :P 16:25:02 i know 16:25:25 oklopol: i'll accept £25 instead of £50 since that's my debt 16:25:32 also since you're probably really poor 16:25:34 and lonely 16:25:35 and sad 16:25:57 it's probably easier for both our accounting if i pay 50 and you pay me the 25 later 16:27:19 then maybe i can buy a wheelchair and make it move and talk when i think 16:27:26 i mean 16:27:29 when i get that ocd thing 16:28:40 it's probably easier for both our accounting if i pay 50 and you pay me the 25 later 16:28:44 what kind of accounting is *that* 16:29:00 oklopol: anyway still two years - 3 months before you have to pay 16:30:32 right 16:33:18 oklopol: or we could just write off both of our debts, which is profitable to you (assuming you lose it which... you will) 16:33:29 (^ so not going to work) 16:34:19 okay i ordered the thingie 16:34:30 probably it'll suck ass but i'm optimistic. 16:42:31 oklopol: that's what she asid 16:42:33 or something 16:42:34 asidding 16:42:37 maybe i ordered their last piece because the page doesn't have the product anymore... 16:42:44 (not amazon) 16:49:17 oklopol: fix my prog 16:49:19 -!- sftp has joined. 16:50:41 -!- sftp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:51:13 * Zuu gives elliott a 'do it yourself'-kit consisting of a hammer and a chisel :D 16:51:25 BAH 16:54:36 Zuu: but see i get my error from execl which is in the FORKED process 16:54:43 It's funny how conplex stuff has become... there was a time where everything could be fixed with a hammer and a chisel 16:54:45 but i need the error in the parent, see 16:54:49 so how can i DO that?!?1/1 16:54:56 without yucky ipc 16:55:48 the entire set of solutions is classified as some kind of ipc, so if you dont want that there is no other solution :) 16:56:15 Zuu: i could do a call that lets me see the error from the parent instead 16:56:16 somehow 16:56:20 even though that call is execl 16:56:27 and if it succeeds, well, there goes my process 17:09:36 So reddit's "popular choices" on the submission page is pretty much a list of subscribed-to reddits 17:09:48 I don't think NoPDubClub is that popular 17:13:26 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 17:26:40 " On typical PC servers a reboot is 17:26:40 quite lengthy: the BIOS takes two minutes, the kernel takes 20 seconds, and 17:26:40 the boot scripts take 30-90 seconds." 17:26:45 * elliott wonders what kind of bios takes that long 17:29:25 a server bios? :) 17:29:33 olsner: still! :) 17:29:52 admittedly this is from 2004, but still 17:30:16 elliott, hi. 17:30:26 hi 17:30:29 elliott, do you happen to know if python lists are arrays or cons-style lists? 17:30:33 Vorpal: arrays 17:30:41 (automatically growing) 17:30:42 elliott, how do you get linked lists in python then? 17:30:50 Vorpal: with a class 17:30:51 My god. 17:30:52 someone had made a modified linux thingy with a power-on to init delay of less than 1s 17:30:57 olsner: yeah i know 17:30:57 elliott, heh, 17:31:05 There's a word for those lumpy bits on sci-fi spaceships. 17:31:05 Vorpal: or, uh 17:31:08 Vorpal: nested tuples! 17:31:12 Vorpal: (1,(2,(3,()))) 17:31:14 My mind is blown. 17:31:17 Phantom_Hoover: ? 17:31:20 elliott, hah 17:31:27 elliott, "greebles". 17:31:28 Phantom_Hoover, nodules? 17:31:30 heh 17:31:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble 17:31:39 Phantom_Hoover, what lumpy bits? 17:31:46 Vorpal: the greebles 17:31:52 hah 17:31:54 Vorpal, see: any spaceship. 17:31:56 Vorpal: a question of my own: what's the simplest, dirt cheap way on unix/linux to make a call that will block until a file's permissions change? It is okay if it returns sometimes when that doesn't happen, too (I'm just trying to not poll every second). 17:32:03 Vorpal: I would rather avoid fam and the like. 17:32:08 The article has a picture of a greebled cube which should make it clear. 17:32:51 elliott, uh... Not sure. But it might be worth checking if epoll or inotify can do that 17:32:58 elliott, inotify probably can 17:33:36 Vorpal: Anything more portable? :P 17:33:44 I wish you could just select() on a filesystem entry or something. 17:33:54 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:33:57 elliott, perhaps kqueue on *bsd 17:34:06 but no, nothing portable I think 17:34:16 Vorpal: so gamin then. bleh 17:34:21 Vorpal: i'm just going to poll every few seconds :) 17:34:23 elliott, you could use some wrapper library such as gamin yes 17:34:33 http://web.archive.org/web/20060214091217/http://battletech-movie.com/html/tutorials/comments_about_greebling.php is a long article about greebles. 17:34:33 at least it's not doing anything intensive 17:34:38 elliott, but that would hopefully just map to inotify on linux 17:34:42 ("fork, execl, failed for this specific reason? wait another few seconds") 17:34:58 hmm or i could do it inside svmg(8) 17:34:59 elliott, ouch my battery :P 17:35:14 Vorpal: patches that don't use gamin welcome :) 17:35:23 elliott, oh gamin is fine 17:35:27 Vorpal: (looked at the fam api, pretty big added complexity considering how tiny my program is right now) 17:35:28 or well 17:35:33 elliott, true 17:35:34 Vorpal: (it doesn't even use stdio) 17:35:39 elliott, so inotify then 17:35:47 Vorpal: but i hate linux-centrism :) 17:36:00 * elliott looks at the inotify api 17:36:01 eek 17:36:09 elliott, what about this then: detect-poll.c detect-inotify.c 17:36:15 then select the best one at compile time 17:36:21 and you could easily add other ones 17:36:31 Vorpal: otoh, i prefer linux-centrism to *that* :) 17:36:35 * elliott rethinks 17:36:46 elliott, to what? 17:36:52 Vorpal: added complexity of {shitty impl + good impl} 17:36:55 where nobody really wants the first 17:36:59 hm 17:37:08 elliott, because polling would ruin it for laptops 17:37:13 exactly... 17:37:17 hm 17:37:39 IN_ATTRIB Metadata changed, e.g., permissions, timestamps, extended attributes, link count (since Linux 2.6.25), UID, GID, etc. (*). 17:37:45 elliott, seems almost exactly like what you want 17:37:48 maybe i could do it in an ENTIRELY NEW WAY :) 17:37:52 Vorpal: yeah, i'll look into it 17:38:03 elliott, inotify is scheduled to be replaced btw 17:38:10 Vorpal: groan. with what? 17:38:44 elliott, there is a new one that unifies dnotify and inotify. fsnotify. Currently it is not exposed to user space, but in 2.6.36 inotify and dnotify are implemented in terms of it 17:39:12 Vorpal: i can barely. contain. my excitement. 17:39:14 elliott, iirc they couldn't agree on an user space API before 2.6.36 release 17:39:24 so that is why it is currently kernel only 17:39:52 Vorpal: maybe i'll just use SYSV IPC!!11 17:39:59 elliott, to do what? 17:40:02 this :P 17:40:07 elliott, what is this? 17:40:12 svmg 17:40:15 right 17:40:22 but I meant more specifically 17:40:35 Why is SIGSEGV actually called that? 17:40:38 elliott, surely you aren't using this to calculate the dependency graph for example 17:40:49 I can get the "SIGSEG", but not the 'V'. 17:40:51 Phantom_Hoover, SIG = signal SEG = segmentation V = vfault? 17:40:56 vfault? 17:40:56 Phantom_Hoover, good question 17:41:01 "Vyou vhave va vfault!" 17:41:01 Phantom_Hoover, joke :P 17:41:08 Vorpal: no, in this case it's waiting for ./run to become +x 17:41:11 elliott, right ras rususal 17:41:16 Vorpal: because +x = "run this service" -x = "don't" 17:41:26 Vorpal: would have the same problem if it was presence of "down" file or not to represent that 17:41:31 so not a permission-specific problem 17:41:31 elliott, right. That was an useful answer :P 17:41:39 Vorpal: Wasn't it? 17:41:42 :P 17:41:43 The V stands for "violation", apparently. 17:42:08 elliott, though if you think of a way to use this for dependency calculation you win the price of being (mostly) on topic :P 17:42:36 Phantom_Hoover: oh, of course 17:42:39 Phantom_Hoover, right 17:42:47 Vorpal: The price of being on topic. It is incalculable. 17:43:06 elliott, modulo typos :P 17:43:13 elliott, it's the same word in Swedish 17:43:19 Really? 17:43:29 "Here's your price." "But I don't HAVE a million dollars to pay you." "We're giving YOU the million dollars!" 17:43:35 elliott, pris for both 17:43:35 ALTERNATIVELY 17:43:40 "Here's your price." "I'm up for SALE?" 17:44:25 elliott, the first one doesn't work. "Här är ditt pris" is unambig. for "here is your price" 17:44:34 it isn't really ambig. in English either 17:44:45 second one? :P 17:45:05 elliott, well, no one would interpret it that way. You might have heard of it. Context. 17:45:08 ... 17:45:10 Flubber1 17:45:17 * Sgeo remembers that movie 17:45:26 Barely 17:45:30 Sgeo has finally lost all semblance of rational thought, appends 1 to arbitrary things, speaks out of context, and is driven only by nostalgia. 17:45:31 elliott,err 17:45:33 wait 17:45:38 Vorpal: wat 17:45:42 elliott, the first one doesn't work. "Här är ditt pris" is unambig. for "here is your price" <-- s/price/prise/ 17:45:42 :P 17:45:47 elliott, I'm watching the Nostalgia Critic 17:45:54 elliott, your language is confusing 17:46:07 Sgeo: Surprising! 17:46:07 elliott, you use fewer/less but more/more 17:46:15 Vorpal: Actually fewer is dying out a bit... 17:46:17 Vorpal: "10 items or less" 17:46:24 Vorpal: "Less than three people" 17:46:33 elliott, and inflammable means "likely to catch fire" unlike what the in- prefix normally means. 17:46:37 Vorpal: Probably for the better although the prescriptivists of course whine about it to hell and back. 17:46:43 Inflammable has a justification. I think. 17:46:52 Vorpal: [[The word “inflammable” came from Latin “'inflammāre” = “to set fire to,” where the prefix “'in-”' means “in” as in “inside”, rather than “not” as in “invisible” and “ineligible”. Nonetheless, “inflammable” is often erroneously thought to mean “non-flammable”. To avoid this safety hazard, “flammable”, despite not being the proper Latin-derived t 17:46:52 erm, is now commonly used on warning labels when referring to physical combustibility.[1]] 17:46:54 *]]] 17:46:56 tl;dr blame Latin 17:47:02 elliott, inaudible should mean "very loud" then :P 17:47:12 Vorpal: "to set audible to"? 17:47:21 [[From Latin as if *inflammabilis < inflammare (“to set on fire”) < in (“in, on”) + flamma (“flame”).]] 17:47:26 elliott, or that 17:48:09 elliott, actually inflammable doesn't mean "to set fire to" today. It means "burns easily". 17:48:45 ... 17:48:48 Vorpal: [[The word “inflammable” came from Latin “'inflammāre” = “to set fire to,” where the prefix “'in-”' means “in” as in “inside”, rather than “not” as in “invisible” and “ineligible”. Nonetheless, “inflammable” is often erroneously thought to mean “non-flammable”. To avoid this safety hazard, “flammable”, despite not being the proper Latin 17:48:48 -derived t 17:48:48 erm, is now commonly used on warning labels when referring to physical combustibility.[1]] 17:48:50 Vorpal: plz read ^ 17:48:53 it has always meant burns easily 17:48:56 you fail at etymology 17:49:26 inflammāre = inflammABLE, as in able to be inflammāre'd, as in able to be set fire to 17:49:31 hm 17:49:52 elliott, so you mean inaudibleable would be the right form? 17:49:54 :D 17:50:00 >__< 17:50:10 possibly inaudiblable 17:50:23 elliott, (I was joking) 17:50:33 or uninaudible? 17:50:50 olsner, that would mean quiet according to that logic :P 17:52:13 elliott, anyway, I looked at inotify API. What is so bad about it? It is somewhat large due to supporting waiting for many different features. But given it's feature set it seems quite sane 17:52:45 perhaps writing to the fd would have been a better way to tell it about stuff you wanted though 17:52:59 Vorpal: I would have settled for blockuntilchanged("run"); :P 17:53:12 Or even blockuntilchanged("run", BUC_PERM); 17:53:15 (for permissions) 17:53:20 elliott, well tricky for many files at once 17:53:34 Vorpal: fork() and call blockuntilchanged() a lot 17:53:36 PROBLEM SOLVED 17:53:39 elliott, XD 17:54:12 Vorpal: well, hey, this is basically why svrun(8) exists 17:54:17 Vorpal: because waitpid only takes one pid :) 17:54:17 elliott, I believe upstart uses inotify btw. Also using gamin is probably a bad idea for a service supervisor. What if someone installs fam instead and then makes that start with the supervisor? ;P 17:54:19 ok i could use wait() 17:54:22 but it'd get messy 17:54:52 elliott, err, init *needs* to wait() 17:55:08 elliott, otherwise you will gets lots of processes with status Z. 17:55:14 Vorpal: well, yes. but i mean - 17:55:19 it doesn't wait() to manage its services 17:55:23 hm 17:55:24 svrun(8) does that, one per service 17:55:32 i am becoming less and less convinced of this design thanks to you, but 17:55:35 it's more modular! totally! :P 17:55:50 The wait() system call suspends execution of the calling process until one of its children terminates. The call wait(&status) is equivalent to: 17:55:50 waitpid(-1, &status, 0); 17:55:57 elliott, so you could use waitpid :P 17:56:09 yeah i know :P 17:56:20 Vorpal: can i just say that setsid() and friends are the craziest thing ever? 17:57:39 elliott, is that for process group? 17:57:45 Vorpal: yeah 17:57:59 Vorpal: which are just... ugh 17:58:10 I actually don't know what process groups are for, except that shell job control uses it 17:58:16 so what are they for? 18:00:18 Vorpal: to do with wait() and things, I *think* 18:00:22 like where zombies go 18:00:32 i don't know 18:00:33 elliott, init needs to wait for any process though 18:00:35 it's a bit ball of crap 18:00:58 elliott, so I don't think init needs to care about it as such. 18:01:02 Vorpal: In POSIX-conformant operating systems, a process group denotes a collection of one or more processes. Process groups are used to control the distribution of signals. A signal directed to a process group is delivered individually to all of the processes that are members of the group. 18:01:14 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:01:16 "Blah blah blah special case crap crap." 18:01:44 elliott, well. who knows. It isn't something init needs to deal with I think. 18:01:51 -!- FireFly has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:01:56 indeed 18:01:58 Vorpal: although shutdown does 18:02:07 Vorpal: it has to become process leader 18:02:10 elliott, oh? 18:02:12 ah 18:02:12 at least, well, some of them 18:02:17 i've seen one shutdown that does it :D 18:02:21 Vorpal: because otherwise it'd kill its parent 18:02:23 etc. 18:02:30 -!- FireFly has joined. 18:02:46 elliott, idea: check if existing init, shutdown and so on uses it, if no: ignore it. if yes: check to see what it does, and if it seems reasonable, do the same. 18:02:54 elliott, for shutdown it seems reasonable for example 18:03:13 Vorpal: well it's different with a service manager 18:03:14 or hm 18:03:16 you can't just kill everything blindly 18:03:18 because it'll respawn 18:03:22 so you have to kill stuff in the right order 18:03:40 elliott, shouldn't shutdown simply tell the supervisor to do an ordered shutdown? 18:03:58 Vorpal: no reason why the service manager should have anything to do with system halting 18:04:25 Vorpal: shutdown is many things: "stop all services, sync, make filesystems read-only, kill all processes, tell the kernel to reboot" 18:04:25 elliott, well, it needs to bring stuff down in an ordered fashion. chmod -x would be a bad idea because that would mess up the next boot 18:04:32 Vorpal: the only one that has anything to do with the service manager is the first one 18:04:34 so you need some other way to stop it respawning 18:04:41 Vorpal: well, yes, so you kill svmg 18:04:44 which kills all the svruns 18:04:53 elliott, if it runs as pid 1 you get into problems :P 18:04:54 which kills all the services 18:04:59 Vorpal: yes, indeed - i thought of this 18:05:02 Vorpal: I think I'm planning to do: 18:05:11 elliott, separate init and supervisor? 18:05:12 makes sense 18:05:17 if (getpid() == 1) { if (fork()) hang_forever(); } 18:05:19 Vorpal: no, just that in svmg 18:05:20 probably 18:05:29 sure you could make init a simple program that just forks and execs the service manager 18:05:30 but why bother... 18:05:38 elliott, well init still must wait() 18:05:41 pid 1 must do so 18:05:52 Vorpal: well true. shut up i haven't figured out what to do yet :D 18:05:56 Vorpal: this is rapidly turning into daemontools :) 18:06:01 elliott, hang_forever() could be a wait() loop 18:06:05 elliott, hah 18:06:26 or runit, the sv(8) interface is basically identical to runit's... 18:06:32 elliott, and well, if that wait detects that the fork has exited: "whops" 18:06:38 whoops* 18:06:52 elliott, sv(8) being? 18:07:01 Vorpal: the service management interface 18:07:09 elliott, you mean that you do stuff like chmod -x ? 18:07:10 # sv d tty1 (d = down) 18:07:18 # sv k tty1 (k = SIGKILL) 18:07:24 # sv r tty1 (d then u (up)) 18:07:25 etc. 18:07:31 Vorpal: well it's just a frontend : 18:07:32 *:D 18:07:41 elliott, what? A command wrapping a file system operation‽‽‽ How systemV-ish! 18:07:47 Vorpal: sv d foo = chmod -x /sv/foo/run && kill $(cat /sv/foo/pid) 18:07:56 Vorpal: well no, it does more than the plain fs operations! see above line :P 18:08:45 elliott, presumably so does the the queue thingy. Like locking to prevent two users queueing something to print at the same time messing up stuff 18:08:59 Vorpal: SHUT UP :) 18:09:05 at least with mine it's easy to do manually 18:09:27 elliott, well, if it isn't then it isn't just a file system command :P 18:09:29 * Vorpal runs 18:09:36 * elliott stabs Vorpal to death 18:09:51 * Vorpal respawns 18:10:54 Vorpal: 3 seconds away from "fuck it i'm making init a shell script" 18:15:56 Vorpal: blame gregor: #define DECIMALOF(t) ((sizeof(t)*8)/3) 18:17:33 elliott, a shell script? 18:17:38 elliott, also what? 18:17:42 decimalof? 18:18:09 Vorpal: char s[DECIMALOF(long)]; -- now s can hold the decimal representation of any long 18:18:11 well, in this case unsigned long 18:18:12 but whatever 18:18:16 elliott, /sbin/init: ignore SIGKILL, spawn service manager, go into wait loop. 18:18:17 Vorpal: including terminating 0 18:18:20 that is about all for pid 1 18:18:22 elliott, /sbin/init: ignore SIGKILL, spawn service manager, go into wait loop. 18:18:36 /sbin/init: start service programs, ignore SIGKILL, go into wait loop 18:18:40 FUCK MANAGERS 18:18:41 elliott, yes pid 1 can ignore sigkill 18:18:41 :p 18:18:50 Vorpal: including terminating 0 18:18:52 i meant s 18:18:54 DECIMALOF :P 18:19:04 terminating \0 18:19:16 Vorpal: char s[DECIMALOF(long)]; -- now s can hold the decimal representation of any long <-- ah cool 18:19:20 but 18:19:25 why does it use *8 ? 18:19:27 Vorpal: tl;dr ((sizeof(t)*8)/3) is log_10(2^(t*8)) + 1 + a bit 18:19:30 or + 2, I forget 18:19:32 it should use CHAR_BITS 18:19:34 where a bit increases every time 18:19:35 Vorpal: err right 18:19:38 it did in the previous one 18:19:40 Vorpal: *CHAR_BIT btw 18:19:44 yes 18:19:48 that always annoy me 18:19:56 Vorpal: now tell me why pid_t is signed 18:19:58 WHYYYY 18:20:02 elliott, every time I use CHAR_BIT I first get a compile time error because CHAR_BITS is undefied :P 18:20:06 (it is *required* to be signed) 18:20:11 % typos 18:20:42 elliott, well how else would you be able to use negative values to mean special things :P 18:20:47 (note: not saying this is a good idea) 18:20:53 (but it is what is done iirc) 18:21:03 Vorpal: yeah e.g. waitpid(-1, ...) 18:21:08 Vorpal: why not do it like getchar 18:21:10 use an int 18:21:14 elliott, and -1 from fork to mean "couldn't fork" iirc 18:21:15 i guess cus 18:21:16 like 18:21:19 INT_MAX 18:21:23 could be smaller than PID_T_MAX 18:21:24 or whatever 18:21:34 what is it with c's obsession of using special values 18:21:40 what's wrong with multiple functions 18:21:56 elliott, getchar returns a signed int though 18:22:14 Vorpal: but a signed int can definitely store a char in its positive values 18:22:15 elliott, in fact char is signed on my systems at least. 18:22:18 i love how char can be signed 18:22:18 ugh 18:22:20 fuck unix 18:22:30 i love how char can be signed ugh fuck unix 18:22:31 err 18:22:37 changed your mind in the middle? 18:22:47 or just sarcastic to begin with? 18:22:49 Vorpal: "love" 18:23:13 Vorpal: you can tell these posix people were all -- oh, let's be accepting, who knows what exciting futuristic systems will appear using this leeway? 18:23:20 elliott, actually char being signed is the most consistent option. Since int and long are signed 18:23:20 Vorpal: and then they go and restrain it in far less trivial matters 18:23:23 thus making the whole thing moot 18:23:29 because they're idiots, see. 18:23:30 >_> 18:23:40 elliott, actually char being signed is the most consistent option. Since int and long are signed 18:23:48 ok but have uchar be the type of char IO stuff 18:23:57 elliott, I agree on that 18:24:08 elliott, typedef unsigned char uchar; I guess 18:24:20 Vorpal: yeah. and while we're at it, can we have iN mean intN_t? 18:24:30 uN for uintN_t? just trying to get some more readability in here... 18:24:36 elliott, typedef is your friend 18:24:46 elliott, that and stdint.h from C99 18:24:52 Vorpal: sure, and it should be the POSIX/C committees' friend too 18:24:55 elliott: some do use that convention, yes 18:25:02 Vorpal: yes, I meant, have iN instead of intN_t and the like 18:25:10 Vorpal: really what we need to do is s/char/byte/ 18:25:19 biggest mistake of them all it hink 18:25:20 *i think 18:25:21 elliott, well. they couldn't add it outside a header, that would break stuff 18:25:31 elliott, indeed 18:25:34 Vorpal: i'm speaking from a time machine perspective 18:25:37 go back in time, fix shit before it happens 18:26:19 #include 18:26:20 #include 18:26:20 main() { 18:26:20 pid_t p=30056; 18:26:20 printf("spawned pid %d\n",p); 18:26:20 } 18:26:26 * elliott wonders wtf this program is doing in minit 18:26:26 elliott, erlang gets it right there. Strings have nothing to do with byte arrays. Nor does it with lists as such. You can use a byte array to encode a string of course, But that is quite different from byte arrays being strings 18:26:33 nice debugging i guess :) 18:26:52 Vorpal: the problem with unicode is that it's fucked up to use, not even codepoints = actual characters 18:27:00 because of combiningsss 18:27:04 and with arabic, just give up and shoot yourself 18:27:10 "foo" is [$f, $o, $o ] (where $f means ascii value of f and so on) <<"foo">> would be a byte array of foo 18:27:14 it's more everyone else's fault rather than unicode :) 18:27:35 elliott, without combining stuff they would get combinatorial explosion 18:27:52 Vorpal: some would argue they already have :) 18:28:31 elliott, yes, for compatibility in a lot of the cases. 18:28:52 which you need. Otherwise no one will use the thing. 18:29:00 because it would be too much work. 18:29:04 yes it's sad. 18:29:22 * elliott forgot to seed tru64, restarts it (ratio = 0.77) 18:29:38 Vorpal: found an alpha emulator that works? 18:29:45 CHARON-AXP is enterprisey to the max and i couldn't get it going 18:30:26 heh, fefe actually replaced /bin/sh in minit because it's slow 18:32:34 " could 18:32:36 write something to /proc/1/fd/3 and read answer from /proc/1/fd/4" 18:32:40 now that's IPC i can get behind 18:35:05 nice, $1000 to $8000 to extend your tru64 license to charon-axp 18:36:16 olsner: lol 18:36:25 olsner: go find an alpha emulator that works that we can either pirate or get free 18:36:26 GOGOGO 18:39:05 shouldn't there be a bunch of open-source emulators with alpha support? 18:39:22 olsner: you'd think. 18:39:23 elliott, had no time to check for one 18:39:25 olsner: i have not found one yet. 18:39:27 elliott, been writing a report today 18:39:34 olsner: qemu-alpha exists but not qemu-system-alpha 18:40:23 elliott: I see 18:40:35 olsner: i.e. qemu can run alpha linux binaries 18:40:35 elliott, the course uses python. But I think the teacher dislikes the language. At one point in a lecture he paused and said "or am I mixing that up with haskell?" about some behaviour (forgot which behaviour) 18:40:38 but not emulate an alpha system 18:40:44 Vorpal: :D 18:41:30 elliott, oh and we have another course using C++, but it is quite apparent that the teacher prefers something else, objc style or such I suspect. But orders from higher up it seems... 18:41:52 Vorpal: compile a haskell implementation to python somehow 18:41:59 hmm, plus points for referring to haskell, but how the hell can you mix up haskell and python? 18:41:59 submit all assignments written in haskell bundled with that 18:42:01 hah 18:42:02 profit 18:42:10 olsner: "about some behaviour" 18:42:30 olsner, I don't know. He was saying something about range() being lazy or some such iirc. And then that comment. 18:42:41 yeah that's xrange 18:42:52 elliott, no it isn't. Only python 3 on lab computers 18:43:03 * Vorpal waits for elliott to explode 18:43:29 Vorpal: arch users eh 18:43:45 elliott, most of them run windows so I doubt it. 18:43:50 windows xp pro btw. 18:44:31 elliott, btw, during the first lecture the teacher in the course using python said "I would have preferred LISP but then half the course would have been spent learning it first" 18:45:08 :D 18:45:10 Vorpal: *Lisp 18:45:20 true, he didn't actually shout it :P 18:45:39 so instead you spend half the course learning python? :) 18:46:01 olsner: it's so inchewittive 18:46:56 elliott, also he has the beefiest laptop (though I hesitate to call a 17" that) I have ever seen. It has huge air exhausts on the back. He said something about that he has a course using GPU programming as well though. So that might be why. 18:47:18 or he's just a gaming loser :P 18:48:39 elliott, should I learn Common Lisp? 18:49:03 elliott, I doubt it. 18:49:08 elliott, he doesn't look like the type 18:49:12 Sgeo, can you PLEASE make your mind up about SOMETHING just once, ever? 18:49:16 Sgeo: how about we try this magical thing where 18:49:21 you think about a decision 18:49:23 weigh up the options 18:49:28 and then decide it paying NO ATTENTION AT ALL to who agrees or not 18:49:33 You know, we aren't you're personal thinking assistant. 18:49:36 instead using logic and your judgement 18:49:36 *assistants 18:49:45 because opinions don't matter if they're wrong 18:49:47 Sgeo: how about it? 18:50:03 elliott, but that laptop looks like the only step up would be a w700ds or whatever the insane lenovo model is called. And even then it would only be a step up in insanity. It would be a step down in air exhaust size 18:50:14 Vorpal: :D 18:51:00 elliott, you how 12 cell batteries? The air exhaust thingy sticks out about as much behind the monitor. If only I knew the brand... 18:51:06 i hate software 18:51:07 acer or asus or some such I think 18:52:58 because opinions don't matter if they're wrong <-- are you saying your opinions *are* wrong? 18:53:43 Vorpal: if they're wrong, then yes. 18:53:50 they probably aren't though, 'cuz i'm a genius 18:53:52 elliott, alternatively: Hm good idea. ... I decided to not make more decisions and start asking everyone again! 18:54:16 if Sgeo ever lost his internet connection and was like 18:54:19 out in the woods 18:54:20 elliott, or alternative alternatively: Should I make up my own mind? 18:54:21 instant comedy show 18:54:27 Vorpal: heh 18:54:36 I decided that based on evidence A, B, and C, that D. Is this correct? 18:55:11 elliott, would be funny. But just waaay to unrealistic. Too sensible :P 18:56:26 hardware is so expensive 18:56:30 elliott, anyway that more/more vs. less/fewer thing bothers me in English. Swedish is consistent there. Separate words for both. 18:56:46 I don't think I can get a silent computer of the power I want even if I empty my account :P 18:56:56 Vorpal: i'd prefer more/more less/less to be honest 18:57:02 elliott, uh easy solution: kvm extended 18:57:03 even if it does sound a bit odd 18:57:05 extender* 18:57:16 Vorpal: lame, i want to twiddle bits 18:57:18 and uh 18:57:20 reset button 18:57:22 elliott, so you put it in the next room. Unless you have paper walls... 18:57:23 also 18:57:25 nowhere to put it really 18:57:29 elliott, ah 18:57:56 elliott, well, reset button shouldn't be required. And isn't very often. When it is you could get up and walk 10 steps :P 18:57:56 -!- Decarabia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:57:58 "next room" is the landing 18:58:06 i can't really think of anywhere it would go without HUEG CABLE 18:58:09 elliott, btw did you see tru64 to 1.0 ratio or better? 18:58:16 Vorpal: bah! that would ruin my figure 18:58:21 Vorpal: 0.81 atm 18:58:23 still going 18:58:28 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:58:29 elliott, ah good. I seeded to 1.50 18:58:30 forgot to put it on this morning, restarted it a while ago like i said 18:58:38 elliott, hm missed that you said that 18:59:12 hmm, regular desktop/gamer ram isn't ECC is it? 18:59:15 I'll have to buy server RAM 18:59:35 elliott, regular desktop mobos often don't make good use of ECC according to djb 18:59:51 Vorpal: yeah, i've seen. but not from the reliable manufacturers, i don't think 18:59:53 elliott, as in they detect it and run with it. 18:59:57 elliott, hm 18:59:59 Vorpal: e.g. I'd expect an ASUS board that claims to support ECC to work fine 19:00:04 -!- Decarabia has joined. 19:00:10 elliott, you probably don't want a server mobo though 19:00:11 Vorpal: he was more singling out a few manufacturers i'd never heard of, probably cheapy sorta stuff 19:00:15 Vorpal: also that page is quite old 19:00:17 yeah no server mobo :) 19:00:19 just a good desktop one 19:00:46 elliott, I know someone who bought a server mobo. Performance was awesome but sound level of the fans required? uh... 19:01:08 Vorpal: and the BIOS takes 2 minutes! 19:01:14 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 19:01:16 elliott, yes they often do 19:01:21 elliott, but what is the reference? 19:01:27 elliott, I seen that behaviour myself 19:01:43 so it seems more like a fact rather than a reference 19:01:46 sec 19:02:10 09:26:40 " On typical PC servers a reboot is 19:02:11 09:26:40 quite lengthy: the BIOS takes two minutes, the kernel takes 20 seconds, and 19:02:11 09:26:40 the boot scripts take 30-90 seconds." 19:02:11 09:26:45 * elliott wonders what kind of bios takes that long 19:02:11 09:29:25 a server bios? :) 19:02:11 09:29:33 olsner: still! :) 19:02:13 09:29:52 admittedly this is from 2004, but still 19:02:15 09:30:16 elliott, hi. 19:02:21 from the minit slides :P 19:02:38 elliott, I even saw one that displayed system information and then did a 30 second count down waiting for you to press keys to enter bios setup before continuing boot! 19:02:45 ha 19:02:54 elliott, couldn't be turned off 19:03:18 yup seems Desktop Memory newegg category has no ecc 19:03:30 server ram does 19:03:31 elliott, but IPMI or whatever it is called is nice 19:03:38 "But dude, server RAM is *slow*!" 19:03:40 elliott, you actually get *names* for the sensors 19:03:44 that are meaningful 19:03:51 i love how you can get fast ram. just hilarious 19:03:52 Vorpal: lawl 19:04:00 rather than temp1, temp2, temp3, fan1, fan2, fan3 19:04:05 and so on 19:04:40 elliott, because the names are provided by the board. 19:04:42 that is why it works 19:05:04 elliott, why would server ram be slow? 19:05:07 Vorpal: i would buy a motherboard called smörgåsbord 19:05:16 Vorpal: it isn't, it's just that desktop ram (can be) "fast" 19:05:18 CAS latency, timings, blah blah blah 19:05:20 all irrelevant of course 19:05:43 elliott, hm I should manufacture one then price it very high 19:05:48 because it was one of a kind :P 19:06:04 still, should give me a nice profit since you did a blanket statement there 19:06:19 lawl 19:06:29 cheapest amd processor: " AMD Sempron 140 Sargas 2.7GHz Socket AM3 45W Single-Core Processor SDX140HBGQBOX 19:06:31 * 45 nm Sargas 19:06:31 * 1MB L2 Cache" 19:06:31 $32.99 19:06:32 FUCK YEAH 19:06:47 elliott, I wonder how much cache non-semprons have then 19:06:56 elliott, considering that is a lot more than my old sempron has 19:07:08 less than the core2 duo in my laptop 19:07:12 Vorpal: not as much per core actually for the phenoms! 19:07:14 Vorpal: but then they have l3 cache 19:07:16 *L3 19:07:23 # L2 Cache: 3 x 512KB 19:07:23 # L3 Cache: 6MB 19:07:27 for a 3-core phenom 19:07:32 cache size: 128 KB 19:07:34 that's my semrpon 19:07:43 sempron* 19:08:02 elliott, even that old p3 I have has twice as much cache 19:08:06 someone oughta go into business selling processors that aren't intel and don't suck 19:08:08 :) 19:08:28 elliott, well, sempron is their cheap line 19:08:37 elliott, a phenom would suck less 19:08:52 Vorpal: oh, i meant in general 19:08:56 hm 19:08:58 phenoms suck because they're really hot and power-consuming 19:09:03 well yes 19:09:12 well so are the lower end ones 19:09:17 but the phenoms even moreso 19:09:24 elliott, so get a supermegaultraextraspecialplus 19:09:51 I can't think of more words like that to add 19:10:03 Vorpal: supermegaultraextraspecialplus *what*? 19:10:21 elliott, joking about silly name for the megahalem replacement 19:10:29 ah 19:10:44 Vorpal: the problem is airflow, even if you have the biggest heatsinks ever, if they're too close and no air is blowing... 19:10:46 this is why you use heatpipes 19:10:46 :) 19:10:54 bleh 19:11:31 elliott, or hm... hook it up the the AC of the building? If it has that 19:11:55 Vorpal: this is britain, why would we need *cooling down*? :) 19:11:58 :P 19:11:58 I'm sure this is a terrible idea, but I can't think of why 19:12:01 elliott, true 19:12:21 elliott, here we could just put a heatsink on the roof for all but 3 months of the year 19:12:43 of course, you could do it all year around. Doesn't it rain over there almost always? 19:12:55 Vorpal: absolutely, in fact we're permanently wet 19:13:00 usually we just drench our carpets so we feel like we fit in 19:13:16 hm, actually snow is a good insulator iirc. So the roof thing wouldn't work very well 19:13:16 Vorpal: anyway no reason you can't just put the heatsink on the roof in the summer time 19:13:27 it's away from the components, that's what's important 19:13:28 elliott, indeed not in the summer 19:13:29 doesn't matter how hot it is 19:13:36 Vorpal: why not? 19:13:37 elliott, hm 19:13:46 Vorpal: i mean, as long as you're not totally overtaxing it 19:13:53 but if you get a big enough radiator, it shouldn't be an issue 19:13:55 elliott, wouldn't it be too hot. You know. What would make the heat travel? 19:13:55 really 19:14:04 elliott, the temperature difference 19:14:16 and if the "cool" end isn't very cool... 19:14:24 it couldn't work very well 19:15:26 elliott, say it is 30 C outside in the shadow (this happens for about 1 week in late July or early August in Sweden most summers). Then if it is on the roof and the sun is shining directly on it, it will be considerably hotter. 19:15:44 which means cooling wouldn't really work 19:16:03 elliott, I'm thinking heatpipes and passive heatsink here 19:16:25 during the winter it would work very well probably 19:16:42 elliott, no? 19:17:11 back 19:17:22 Vorpal: well ok it does need to cool 19:17:27 30 C is probably not workable 19:17:41 Vorpal: but if you have a heatsink on the roof why not just put a gigantic fan on it... 19:17:43 industrial strength 19:18:32 elliott, because I'm on the upper floor and it would be just 2-3 meters away 19:18:49 Vorpal: have it go at like 2rpm :P 19:19:11 elliott, wouldn't do anything much then would it? 19:19:41 Vorpal: bah! 19:19:51 Vorpal: could just watercool 19:19:54 Vorpal: put the pump on the roof 19:20:01 Vorpal: i doubt any pump could be loud enough to hear from 2-3 meters away 19:20:49 elliott, anyway with the 45 degree slope on this roof it would be tricky 19:21:50 elliott, anyway is water cooling loud or? 19:22:02 Vorpal: if you use fans yes. if you don't, no 19:22:20 Vorpal: "passively", you have a big radiator, and a pretty quiet pump 19:22:30 elliott, and no air in the system 19:22:32 Vorpal: away from the pump, the only "noise" is coolant passing through the soft circular pipes 19:22:38 Vorpal: which i'm sure you'll agree is noiseless :P 19:23:18 Stirling engine! 19:23:21 elliott, depends. running the water tap on full certainly isn't silent in the next room 19:23:22 But it's still a moving part. 19:23:29 Stirling engine! 19:23:31 Vorpal: hardly the same situation 19:23:33 Phantom_Hoover, how would that help actual cooling as such? 19:23:38 Phantom_Hoover: But it's still etc. 19:23:48 It pumps stuff without needing additional power! 19:24:03 Phantom_Hoover, it needs the opposite end to be cool 19:24:12 anyway passive is more fun 19:24:22 PFFFFf 19:24:56 elliott, somehow some core2 duo cpus manage to make a tiny high pitched noise when entering C4 19:25:17 Vorpal: capacitor noise and shit. 19:25:25 Vorpal: in fact people who silence their computers end up hearing *LCD whine* (not kidding) 19:25:39 elliott, hah. I heard the cpu noise sometimes on my thinkpad 19:25:45 Vorpal: after they solve that, well... some purport to hearing the capacitors, but who can tell between that and tinnitus? 19:26:03 elliott, I can tell by watching powertop that it is related to wakeups from C4 19:26:37 and that with thousand of wakeups per second from deeper sleep state it sounds kind of like a CRT 19:27:41 elliott, also some usb stuff cause it 19:28:00 You could also just deliberately deafen yourself. 19:28:10 Tinnitus + deaf. HELL YEAH 19:28:14 heh 19:28:33 elliott, I'm sure it isn't tunnitus. well known mobile Core 2 Duo issue 19:28:56 elliott, and limiting deepest cstate with the boot parameter works 19:29:00 Could you theoretically speaking build some sort of concatenated-peltier-elements tube to move heat far enough away? 19:29:20 hmm, the Blue Waters supercomputer will total around 9.6TB of on-die L3 cache 19:29:29 fizzie, possibly but you would need a hell of a lot of cooling at the remote end I think 19:29:49 olsner, how many CPUs? 19:29:49 Vorpal: I meant fizzie 19:29:57 olsner: now make it persistent! 19:30:04 Vorpal: that's 300000 times 32MB 19:30:15 fizzie: Yes, you could do Peltier cooling. But... not very practical. 19:30:20 olsner, 300 000 CPUs!? 19:30:23 wow 19:30:32 olsner, how many dedicated power plants? 19:30:56 elliott: Were're going solid-state with disks, why not cooling too. Just out of principle, I mean. 19:31:09 elliott, liquid nitrogen cooling. Don't forget to refill though 19:31:19 fizzie: Yes... we're talking about solid-state coolers. 19:31:21 fizzie: Copper heatpipes + radiator. 19:31:26 fizzie: Far more practical than Peltier. 19:31:35 fizzie: And done in practice, too, many times. 19:31:56 Can I just say that hyperthreading is genius? 19:32:00 elliott, peltier has been done in practise. So has liquid nitrogen 19:32:09 not many times though 19:32:17 "Darn, we have all this time when the CPU is just hung waiting for IO." "Uhh... can't we just run other code while that happens?" "...sure, why not." 19:32:25 Can I just say that hyperthreading is genius? <-- except that it doesn't work very well iirc 19:32:39 Vorpal: it does 19:32:47 Vorpal: most of the flames against it were from idiots 19:32:54 elliott, so why wasn't it in core 2 duo? 19:32:58 Vorpal: basically if what you're doing is CPU-bound, of course it won't help 19:33:03 Vorpal: if what you're doing is IO-bound, it helps immensely 19:33:08 elliott, it was in P4 19:33:09 since all that time waiting for IO is spent running code 19:33:12 elliott, memory bound too 19:33:17 cache and so on 19:33:18 right 19:33:27 Vorpal: well, Pentium 4 was single-core 19:33:32 IO bound: doubt it would help much. It would be up to system calls anyway 19:33:32 Hyperthreading is more useful with multiple cores, I'd say 19:33:38 since it's mainly helpful for parallel tasks 19:33:46 anyway Core 2 had a lot of things and didn't have a lot of other things 19:33:52 I don't think hyperthreading worked very well in the Pentium 4 19:33:55 like most things about the P4 19:33:57 elliott, core 2 was damn good though 19:33:58 so they took a step back 19:34:06 it was 19:34:15 one of the best processor innovations i can remember 19:34:25 elliott, very good performer. The mario of CPUs. (see tvtropes if you have no idea what I'm talking about) 19:34:37 wat :P 19:34:43 Vorpal: btw, Core 2 is being discontinued this year 19:34:53 elliott, sad 19:34:53 [[With the launch of 32 nm processors in the upcoming months, Intel has scheduled to discontinue some Atom, Celeron, Pentium, Core 2, and even Core i7 models. The Core 2 Quad Q8200, Q8200S, Q9400, and Q9400S are scheduled to be discontinued in 2010.[9] Intel may also rebadge some Core 2 processors in the E7xxx, E8xxx, Q8xxx, Q9xxx and Wolfdale series as Core i3 processors, together with new Core i3 pro 19:34:55 cessors using the 45 nm Nehalem microarchitecture.[10][11]]] 19:34:59 elliott, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheMario 19:35:02 Vorpal: eh. Nehalem is better 19:35:12 Vorpal: but stop buying Intel! :) 19:35:30 elliott, indeed. 19:35:44 no, instead deal with crappy processors 19:35:44 elliott, I haven't bought Intel for desktop for years 19:35:48 because your illusion of freedom is REAL! 19:35:55 (note: illusion of freedom actually illusory.) 19:36:09 elliott, opencores or something 19:36:36 Vorpal: well, Sun opened up those SPARC processors 19:36:37 and they're actually useful 19:36:46 elliott, before oracle I assume? 19:37:17 Vorpal: er yes 19:37:22 Four fully open source implementations of the SPARC architecture exist. 19:37:24 * LEON, a 32-bit, single-thread SPARC Version 8 implementation, designed especially for space use. Source code is written in VHDL, and licensed under the GPL. 19:37:24 * RAMP Gold, a 32-bit, 64-thread SPARC Version 8 implementation, designed for FPGA-based architecture simulation. RAMP Gold is written in ~36,000 lines of Systemverilog, and licensed under the BSD licenses. 19:37:24 * OpenSPARC T1, released in 2006, a 64-bit, 32-thread implementation conforming to the UltraSPARC Architecture 2005 and to SPARC Version 9 (Level 1). Source code is written in Verilog, and licensed under many licenses. Most OpenSPARC T1 source code is licensed under the GPL. Source based on existent open source projects will continue to be licensed under their current licenses. Binary programs are 19:37:26 licensed under a binary software license agreement. 19:37:29 o S1, a 64-bit Wishbone compliant CPU core based on the OpenSPARC T1 design. It is a single UltraSPARC v9 core capable of 4 way SMT. Like the T1, the source code is licensed under the GPL. 19:37:31 * OpenSPARC T2, released in 2008, a 64-bit, 64-thread implementation conforming to the UltraSPARC Architecture 2007 and to SPARC Version 9 (Level 1). Source code is written in Verilog, and licensed under many licenses. Most OpenSPARC T2 source code is licensed under the GPL. Source based on existent open source projects will continue to be licensed under their current licenses. Binary programs are 19:37:35 licensed under a binary Software License Agreement. 19:37:36 the interesting parts are probably patented, just in case anyone manages to do something useful with the opencore thing 19:37:37 opensparc are the sun ones 19:37:42 # UltraSPARC T1 – Sun's first multicore and multithread CPU (code-named "Niagara") 19:37:44 # UltraSPARC T2 – The successor to T1 19:37:46 -!- elliott has left (?). 19:37:48 -!- elliott has joined. 19:37:55 whoops 19:37:59 what did i miss P 19:38:01 *:P 19:38:07 elliott, "The [Peltier] effect is used in satellites and spacecraft to counter the effect of direct sunlight on one side of a craft by dissipating the heat over the cold shaded side, whereupon the heat is dissipated by thermal radiation into space." 19:38:11 heh 19:38:16 heh 19:38:19 nice 19:38:27 I'm sure open-source in hardware design will really get going as soon as they make it possible to reify designs with the press of a button. Maybe with some sort of progammable Star Trek replicator. 19:38:57 I thought fpga:s already did that? 19:39:10 elliott, this is quite interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling#Uses 19:39:28 olsner: fpags :P 19:39:33 no wait 19:39:35 FPGsA 19:39:38 like Surgeons General 19:39:41 Field Programmable Gates Array 19:39:41 elliott, what 19:39:43 Array is an adjective 19:39:47 the gates are arary 19:39:49 *array 19:39:53 FPGAs 19:39:59 Vorpal: no, FPGaS 19:40:00 what he said was correct 19:40:01 erm 19:40:03 FPGsA 19:40:06 except the caps 19:40:10 Vorpal: e.g. plural of Surgeon General isn't Surgeon Generals 19:40:11 and who cares about them 19:40:14 it's Surgeons General 19:40:23 A is Array, an adjective (the field programmable gates are array) 19:40:29 so it's field programmable gates array 19:40:30 FPGsA 19:40:34 elliott, he used the Swedish construct to make plural of abbreviations 19:40:40 kind of 19:40:47 it would be FPGA:er in Swedish 19:41:08 i like how Vorpal is listening to me 19:41:17 elliott, no I have a silly filter :P 19:42:09 all plurals should be like Surgeons General really 19:42:12 Awesomes people 19:42:21 *Awesomes person 19:42:23 #esoterics member 19:42:25 fizzie, what about that open thingy to make stuff in plastic 19:42:27 forgot the name 19:42:29 (FEAR... #esoteric's member) 19:42:43 elliott, what is suregons general? 19:42:52 Suregon. 19:43:05 Vorpal: Surgeons General is the plural of Surgeon General. 19:43:14 elliott, heh 19:43:17 Vorpal: I've forgotten the name also, but it still has some way to go before you can print a processor with it. 19:43:18 For instance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgeon_General_of_the_United_States 19:43:20 Vorpal: no, it actually is 19:43:24 "Surgeon Generals" is incorrect 19:43:25 elliott, wait, but that doesn't work. 19:43:25 elliott, I guess it is due to military word order? 19:43:39 Vorpal: Surgeon General = the General Surgeon 19:43:41 It only applies for compounds. 19:43:42 the General Surgeons 19:43:43 There was a hand-built "3D printer" at one stand at Altparty, I think. 19:43:43 elliott, sane word order would be "General Suregons" yeah 19:43:45 Surgeons General 19:43:47 Phantom_Hoover: I KNOW BUT SHUT UP 19:43:59 fizzie: They got it to print circuits. 19:44:03 fizzie: Simple ones. 19:44:16 elliott, link? 19:44:16 Also, whoever has ever said "#esoteric member"? 19:44:19 and what was the name? 19:44:28 Vorpal: i forget 19:44:31 aaargh 19:44:34 "Member of #esoteric" is surely the normal form? 19:44:34 Phantom_Hoover: Your mom. 19:44:36 has everyone forgot the name? 19:44:43 Vorpal: http://www.google.com/search?q=self-replicating+3d+printer 19:44:45 Vorpal: Google hasn't. 19:44:56 ah reprap 19:44:59 Is that the RepRap? 19:44:59 Vorpal: "courts martial" too 19:45:01 Yeah. 19:45:12 Doesn't actually self-replicate, though. 19:45:13 elliott, yes you are insane 19:45:17 English that is 19:45:21 not you as in first person 19:45:23 err 19:45:26 second person 19:45:27 duh 19:45:34 or rather 19:45:40 not you as in second person *singular* 19:46:53 The first-person you, for all you out-of-body travellers. 19:47:15 fizzie, hah 19:47:41 fizzie, or time travelers 19:48:07 Vorpal: There is no second person plural in English, however in many variant languages -- mainly American -- "y'all" is. 19:48:10 izzie, or time travellers 19:48:10 THE MORE YOU KNOW 19:48:13 argh 19:48:15 Izzie. 19:48:16 laaag 19:48:22 wtf caused that 19:48:27 multi-second lag 19:48:30 for a while 19:48:44 Izzie sounds very lizardy. 19:49:00 I couldn't see what I was typing :P 19:49:15 so up arrow and then wtf 19:49:16 fizzie: Lizzie. 19:49:40 elliott, doesn't English have second person plural = second person singular 19:50:02 Vorpal: well. sort of. 19:50:04 sometimes! 19:50:09 "y'all" is unambiguous but hicky :) 19:50:21 hicky? 19:52:04 Vorpal: hick-esque. of or akin to the manners of a hick 19:52:24 hm reprap is version 2 now. 19:52:30 a lot more interesting than the old one indeed 19:52:36 looks less messy too 19:54:43 Vorpal: Incidentally, here's the underground tree I mentioned: http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree1.png http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree2.png 19:55:24 fizzie, very nice. Do you need the torches as well, or would the sunlight be enough? 19:55:48 I think it should be enough for it to grow. 19:55:55 But of course then it'd be pretty dark down there at night-time. 19:56:02 well yes 19:56:24 fizzie, the waterfall doesn't go all the way up? 19:56:28 elliott, incidentally, FS2 no longer crashes my computer. 19:56:34 No, it comes out of the wall at one point. 19:56:34 It just runs slowly. 19:56:41 You can swim up it, of course. 19:56:45 Inexplicably so. 19:58:27 Even under circumstances under which it ran fine. 19:59:42 I WANT MY OLD DRIVERS BACK 20:00:58 Phantom_Hoover, FS2? 20:01:44 Vorpal: The 3D printer at altparty was in fact a built RepRap, it seems. 20:01:58 fizzie, version 1 or 2? 20:02:26 Vorpal: Version 2. 20:02:30 fizzie, nice 20:04:15 Vorpal: It was made by the folks of Helsinki Hacklab, which is this 100-square-metres apartment filled with tools and other such stuff, for people who like to build stuff but don't have suitable spaces in their homes. 20:05:01 Vorpal, FreeSpace 2. 20:05:07 I have a thing for space sims. 20:05:12 It also "almost works". 20:05:37 hm 20:05:40 Phantom_Hoover, wine? 20:05:51 Vorpal, no. 20:05:51 They had it with them at Assembly, and it didn't work there; at Altparty it I think sort-of maybe worked. 20:05:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeSpace_2_Source_Code_Project 20:05:57 Platform(s) Linux, Mac OS X, Windows 20:05:59 oooh 20:05:59 nice 20:06:02 The source was released and GPLed. 20:06:06 very nice 20:06:14 Although the data files are still proprietary. 20:06:21 * Vorpal puts it on queue of cool things to try 20:06:32 They're not DRMed or anything, though, so torrenting is trivial 20:06:45 fizzie: http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree2.png Not that deep! :P 20:07:12 elliott, uh, looks like 10 above the bedrock or such? 20:07:13 maybe 20 20:07:22 Something like 10, right. 20:07:36 fizzie, pretty near the sea level at the top right? 20:07:44 Vorpal: No, it's actually pretty far up. 20:07:47 fizzie: Why not build the tree on bedrock? :P 20:07:56 fizzie, hm? really? 20:08:04 Vorpal: A moment and I'll screen-shot. 20:08:21 fizzie, also how did you dig that? I found vertical shafts a pita to dig without risk of dying 20:08:39 fizzie, also lots of pickaxes for 4x4 that long 20:08:48 He might have staircased it and then emptied it. 20:09:05 Vorpal: No health-checks in multiplayer. :p 20:09:09 Phantom_Hoover, yes but emptying it is kind of tricky I found. Even if starting from the top 20:09:13 fizzie, ah right 20:09:26 (Though I built a 5x5 vertical shaft with no falls. It's not like you have to dig blocks below yourself.) 20:09:34 Also infinite diamond pickaxes. 20:09:43 8 blocks from top of bedrock to the tree. 20:09:50 fizzie, I tried multiplayer yesterday but I hit a sheep, saw the wool fall and then couldn't pick the wool up 20:10:03 Multiplayer for Vorpal here means single-player multiplayer. 20:10:04 fizzie, then later another sheep turned into a pig and then back into a sheep 20:10:17 Yes, it's not very finished yet. 20:10:19 elliott, yes I tried local server, because I didn't know any good one 20:10:38 I'm sure fizzie will be glad to have you on his server! 20:11:05 You know, maybe I should just stop using a laptop for everything. 20:11:12 But that's so INEFFICIENT! 20:11:52 elliott: I don't run it, I don't know how that goes. 20:12:07 Phantom_Hoover: Do you ever actually move it? 20:12:31 you could use a beefed up laptop and external monitor 20:12:34 elliott, occasionally! 20:12:50 Vorpal: eliminates portability 20:12:51 Vorpal, I don't actually think this laptop *can* be beefed up. 20:13:13 He meant buy a new one... 20:13:19 indeed I did 20:13:20 Ah. 20:13:41 laptops seldom can be beefed up much compared to when you buy them very much apart from adding more ram or replacing hdd. 20:13:43 Well, I already have a portable laptop, so getting another and then making it stationary seems like overkill. 20:13:54 service manual stuff tends to be about replacing with same 20:14:06 and replacing with better is unlikely to wkrk 20:14:07 work* 20:14:10 Wkrk. 20:14:18 Vorpal: Okay, maybe "far up" was a bit of an exaggeration: http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree3.png (The blue thing in the corner is sea-level, and the glass thing is the roof of the tree place, so that's about 20-25 blocks above sea.) 20:14:26 elliott, the keys are diagonally next to each other :P 20:14:46 I would buy a supercomputer just to get the highest-quality Minecraft. 20:14:55 fizzie, tree place? 20:15:02 ah 20:15:07 somehow I read that as 20:15:10 tree palace 20:15:12 XD 20:15:18 fizzie: Looks very high up to me. Cloud-level. 20:15:19 fizzie: Looks very high up to me. Cloud-level. 20:15:21 *one of them 20:15:39 I thought cloud was above the max altitude... 20:15:47 just above the max altitude 20:15:50 You can go pretty far above clouds. 20:15:54 I've been above a cloud before. 20:15:58 huh 20:15:58 Not far though. 20:16:06 Just -- the cloud was at, like, leg level. 20:16:10 Or something. 20:16:11 fizzie, is it random between games or? 20:16:45 fizzie, because I was at max altitude and clouds were just above me I know... 20:16:58 I think it's different between singleplayer/multiplayer. 20:17:02 aaah 20:17:05 It might also be randomized for single-player games. 20:17:08 I wonder why though 20:17:08 For all I know. 20:17:17 fizzie, don't play any single player 20:17:18 ? 20:18:39 Vorpal: Not much. This is how far up you can build, at least on this server: http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree4.png 20:19:07 Okay, it's pretty hard to judge distances down, I don't think that other house peak is at maximum level. 20:19:34 eh. Doesn't look like altitude is 127 above bedrock there 20:19:40 unless your ocean is very high 20:20:32 Why do all of you get Minecraft? 20:20:37 fizzie's name is Fizzie Fizzie. 20:20:42 Or fizzie flatulence. 20:20:46 Phantom_Hoover: 'cuz itz rad 20:21:02 elliott, surely you don't have it? 20:21:04 fizzie, also why do you build wooden houses that large? I get the point for early game shelter 20:21:08 during night 20:21:27 For style, of course. 20:21:28 Phantom_Hoover: I bought it. So yes. 20:21:30 It's awesome. 20:21:37 fizzie, it can burn easily though 20:21:39 Some people prefer more natural, living materials. 20:21:51 fizzie, what? reeds? cactuses? 20:22:01 I don't have a CREDIT CARD 20:22:15 I have in my single-player game a 2x2 log-trunk in the middle of my otherwise-stone building. 20:22:34 Some people prefer more natural, living materials. 20:22:35 "Pigs!" 20:22:44 fizzie, personally I go for "creeper-proof" which means I test with TNT just outside to make sure it is safe. Which means obsidian for the lower parts of the walls 20:23:25 fizzie, yes but that doesn't risk the whole thing burning down :P 20:24:19 what I would like is moving structures, like a drawbridge or such 20:24:20 Vorpal: This is a maximum-height shaft on that server: http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree5.png -- the platform the picture was taken from is 3 blocks down from the highest possible build altitude, and the platform at bottom is about 4 blocks above top of bedrock. 20:24:23 that would be awesome 20:24:26 (It's a landing platform for jumping down.) 20:24:59 fizzie, you need to add water there when notch implements health :P 20:25:08 I'm waiting for a cloud to pass through the tower so that I can count how much higher the top of the tower is from the clouds; I just missed getting a screenshot of one. 20:25:33 *through* the tower. Hah 20:25:41 In any other game it would be considered a bug 20:25:42 Well, they don't bother going around. 20:25:44 here it is a feature 20:25:56 It's a bit annoying, actually, they reduce the visibility by quite a lot. 20:26:07 indeed they would. 20:26:47 elliott, how did you pay? Surely you don't have a credit card? 20:27:11 hm that's an interesting question indeed 20:27:37 I might patent "a system by which a credit card is permitted to be used to purchase goods in exchange for the total cash sum of the purchase." 20:27:41 Vorpal: Oh, I have a rooftop tree too: http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree6.png 20:27:54 (Well, I do have a "card", one of those Switch or Solo or whatever it is, but it's not as if anything accepts it.) 20:28:01 fizzie, what happens if you place a sapling at max alt? 20:28:23 Vorpal: No idea. Maybe it won't grow much. Maybe it will crash the game. 20:28:39 Vorpal: Incidentally, there's a cloud now: the max alt is ~15 blocks from the top of the cloud. 20:28:54 hm someone with nice bw and memory should start an esoteric minecraft server. Except that we have too many people not interested in that type of gameplay 20:29:08 fizzie, screenshot? 20:29:17 or not inside the tower? 20:29:25 I didn't happen to be inside. 20:29:29 Building a BF interpreter in Minecraft? 20:29:32 fizzie, ah, gave up waiting? 20:29:44 Vorpal: Went to take that rooftop tree picture. 20:29:52 fizzie, murphy's law 20:30:08 elliott, so wait, how *did* you pay, then? 20:30:16 I might patent "a system by which a credit card is permitted to be used to purchase goods in exchange for the total cash sum of the purchase." 20:30:25 hm someone with nice bw and memory should start an esoteric minecraft server. Except that we have too many people not interested in that type of gameplay 20:30:29 I'll put it on the server once I get it going... 20:30:40 You asked someone with a credit card? 20:30:40 I doubt it requires *that* much memory :P 20:31:03 * Sgeo bibbles at reddit downness 20:31:04 Vorpal: The brick chimney there goes straight down to my fireplace; it looks pretty interesting when seen from the top: http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree7.png 20:31:14 (Part of it is stone since it's the outer wall of the building.) 20:31:19 fizzie, don't fall whatever you do 20:31:29 Can you die? What happens if you do? 20:31:37 Vorpal: Well, it's not like the fire would *hurt* you; again, multiplayer. :p 20:31:39 Sgeo, not in multiplayer yet 20:31:44 in single player: yes 20:31:50 and you respawn, inventory lost 20:31:58 respawn at the spawn point that is 20:32:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:33:05 Phantom_Hoover: It turns out that parental overlords often possess instruments of payment. 20:33:09 It also turns out that I can afford Minecraft. 20:33:24 Vorpal: Though falling down would be a bit annoying, since you can't get out without breaking the fireplace, since the gap between the floor/fire and start of the chimney is just one block high: http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree8.png 20:33:27 This is not exactly some esoteric magick. 20:33:39 elliott, yes, but it's so... inelegant. 20:33:46 elliott: Þou fooliſh knave! Þere be no ſecond perſon *ſingular* pronoun! 20:34:01 Phantom_Hoover: Well, hey, I did buy an album with that Switch or Solo or whatever but it's expired by now and I'm lazy. 20:34:03 So little accepts it. 20:34:06 PayPal might, but eh. 20:34:35 elliott, can't you get visa electron or such? I got that when I was like 15 iirc. then got full visa when I was like 20 (could have got it at 18 but, meh, didn't bother changing card until I needed something that worked in those "not connected to the system" payment systems. Like on trains and such. 20:34:44 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:34:52 Vorpal: It's something "like" that, as I said it's called Switch or Solo or something. 20:34:57 Vorpal: But there are a lot of places that don'at accept it... 20:34:59 *don't 20:35:06 -!- oklopol has joined. 20:35:17 elliott, but the electron thingy works in a lot of places. Like on the buses (but not on the trains) 20:35:37 fizzie, you could easily replace it? brick is broken into brick after all 20:35:47 fizzie, and you would be standing close enough it couldn't catch fire 20:36:02 and would it even catch fire? Or is that just lava? 20:36:19 (that destroys items 20:36:20 ) 20:36:28 Lava, I think. 20:36:40 I have a card of some form, but I have no idea where it is. 20:37:21 Vorpal: Did you notice my absurdly extravagant "solid block of diamond as a torch-holder" thing there?-) 20:37:41 fizzie, indeed. 20:37:57 Not like I'd have much use for it since things don't wear out. 20:37:58 fizzie, and wtf. How can you get that much diamond 20:38:02 ah 20:38:11 It's just 9 gems to get a block. 20:38:11 Phantom_Hoover is 3. 20:38:29 3½! 20:38:35 I keep telling you! 20:39:09 *2 20:40:05 Rats, you foiled me. 20:40:13 How did you work that out? 20:40:13 hm 20:40:20 Oh, god... 20:40:31 in single player: boat I was in fell 50 blocks and landed on rock. Didn't break 20:40:38 nor was I hurt 20:40:46 it missed the water pool at the bottom 20:40:48 so hrrm 20:41:05 yet boats are fragile when they hit the shore too fast 20:41:33 Vorpal: think non-newtonian fluid 20:41:36 except... solid 20:41:52 elliott, wat 20:42:07 Vorpal: yes 20:42:19 Speaking of beefing up laptops (all the way back up there), I recall there was some talk on external graphics cards, like that ATI XGP (external box with Mobility Radeon HD 3870/HD 5870/some sort of dual-GPU thing, connected with a proprietary "external 16x PCI-E"; I suppose those haven't gotten really popularized yet? 20:42:44 Athlon IIs are just cheaper Phenom IIs, right? 20:44:50 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:46:31 "AMD Phenom II X4 910e Deneb 2.6GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 65W Quad-Core Desktop Processor HD910EOCGMBOX" 20:46:32 Yes please! 20:48:55 I think I might as well just get a proper desktop computer, since I've been meaning to get one for a while. 20:49:39 Any recommendations? 20:49:48 The music of the last phase of the final boss fight of Aquaria is epic 20:51:56 Phantom_Hoover: Don't buy a premade one. 20:52:29 Phantom_Hoover: I can totally get you a list of parts! I'd say that bsmnt is a happy customer who I can get an endorsement from, but I doubt it would be fruitful. Also his cost $1,600. 20:52:29 * Phantom_Hoover starts composing his "things to do over Christmas" list, 20:52:48 That's what, £1600? 20:52:49 NAME A BUDGET AND I'LL PROBABLY GET YOU THE BEST COMPUTER FOR THAT PRICE! PROBABLY! 20:53:01 Phantom_Hoover: It was a while ago. Right now it's £991. 20:53:10 I'm not sure what my budget is... 20:53:15 Phantom_Hoover: But then, he had 4 cores (8 threads), 12 GiB of RAM, and 2 TiB of disk I think. 20:53:20 I have a lot of disposable cash, but I'm stingy. 20:53:32 Phantom_Hoover: So: TOTALLY FLEXIBLE HERE 20:54:03 elliott: Just produce for him a function that returns the best possible computer, given a price; then put that into a GUI with a slider he can twiddle around. 20:54:10 fizzie: Genius! 20:54:28 Lower than £800 would probably be my loosest condition... 20:54:51 -!- augur has joined. 20:55:15 Phantom_Hoover: I managed to piece together components for a decent-ish computer for, like, £150 once. 20:55:30 (Decent-ish: two core, AMD, I think 2 GiB of RAM.) 20:56:01 Graphics card is a significant factor, as well. 20:56:11 Preferably something that works well with Linux. 20:56:50 Phantom_Hoover: No such thing. But there is... a scale of workingness. 20:57:10 Something that doesn't break constantly. 20:57:23 What's the price-workingness graph? 20:57:33 Phantom_Hoover: I'm likely to assemble a parts list even if you don't want me to out of sheer compulsiveness, so: Quad-core or dual-core? You probably want to say Quad, but if you're on an *extreme* budget no. (£799 is not an extreme budget.) 20:58:12 £799 is basically the absolute upper bound, for now. 20:58:28 Phantom_Hoover: What's the maximum price you wouldn't feel "rrk" about paying? 20:58:29 So premade computers are also A Bad Thing? 20:59:23 Phantom_Hoover: Well, yes, and that's a fact. Try and find a computer of the specs I made for $1,600. 20:59:29 Phantom_Hoover: Did I mention it included an 80 GiB Intel SSD? 20:59:30 I think consensus is that they are an expensive thing 20:59:33 For the same specs 20:59:34 Phantom_Hoover: When they were still $400 or something? 20:59:41 Phantom_Hoover: Also, they're generally... not well put-together. 20:59:49 Phantom_Hoover: And the components are only Linux-optimal if you're extremely lucky. 20:59:51 Hmm... half that figure. 21:00:00 EXTREME budget! 21:00:03 Half £800, you mean? 21:00:08 Yep. 21:00:10 £400? 21:00:25 A challenge! 21:00:35 Phantom_Hoover: Is £500 okay? :P 21:00:47 Pushing it, but possible. 21:01:18 Phantom_Hoover: Are you a silence freak like me? (Say no.) 21:01:27 No. 21:01:45 Phantom_Hoover: Can you withstand the noise of a constant jet engine? 21:01:46 (Say yes.) 21:01:56 Depends. 21:01:58 Note: Extreme exaggeration in place. 21:02:08 Yeah, it won't be anything like that :P 21:02:51 Phantom_Hoover: Nvidia or ATI? (The answer to your next question is "depends on the phase of the moon".) 21:03:16 As I understand it, right now the open-source ATI drivers are better than the open-source Nvidia drivers, and the proprietary Nvidia drivers are the best of all. 21:03:21 With the proprietary ATI drivers being decent. 21:03:29 Depends on the truth of the Riemann hypothesis. 21:03:34 ATI have opened their specs, so they're less of an ENEMY OF FREEDOM. 21:03:37 (For some cards.) 21:03:38 If it's true, Nvidia; if false, ATI. 21:03:47 Phantom_Hoover: Nvidia then. 21:04:09 Phantom_Hoover: I think we should just all switch to ZFCR and stop fussing over that hypothesis. 21:04:22 Not like I have great faith in ZFC's consistency to start with. 21:04:36 "Game"-class GPUs and silence seems to be a bit tricky thing to get; the out-of-the-box passively cooled parts are really low-end; stock cooling solutions are incredibly horrible when it comes to noise; and at least back few years ago third-party cooling on graphics cards was a lot iffier project -- due to completely non-standard sizes and shapes of things -- than third-party CPU cooling. 21:04:56 Hmm. It'll never be proven insoluble, so that'll never be a satisfactory option... 21:05:30 Phantom_Hoover: If R turns out to be false, switch to ZFC~R. If you reject R you *already* throw out a LOT of modern mathematics. 21:05:35 So it's practically an axiom already. 21:05:40 fizzie: Indeed. 21:05:51 fizzie: Well, Phantom_Hoover is using a laptop; it's nice like he needs *extreme* graphics power. 21:05:58 fizzie: The passively-cooled GPUs do CUDA and everything nowadays... 21:06:10 But yeah, the active coolers are *really* loud. 21:06:47 They do all the same things, they just don't do as much of it. And if you have a truu gamer, it's all about polygons. (Okay, shader pipelines or whatever now; but it was polygon fill rates back in the Voodoo days.) 21:08:51 Phantom_Hoover gets what he gets for his meagre budget and likes it. 21:09:03 Yeah, all right. 21:09:16 It'll beat your Intel GPU. :P 21:10:23 Phantom_Hoover: But don't expect to be playing Crysis at full settings! 21:10:35 A kitten's brain would beat my GPU. 21:10:41 Aww cute 21:10:45 "Meow meow red meow." 21:10:57 And it'd be better supported by Debian. 21:11:11 Phantom_Hoover: Every card is. More or less. 21:11:14 I mean, to some degree. 21:11:17 Phantom_Hoover: They're all X.Org drivers... 21:11:38 Yes, but it continues to MOCK me 21:11:47 While the kitten would just be adorable. 21:13:11 "Cons: The heatsink is so big that it blocked 2 pci cards on my motherboard. Horribly dissapointed, will be returning tomorrow." 21:13:27 "Cons: Quickly goes over 60deg C according to SpeedFan after bootup and has gone as high as 67deg C in limited use." 21:13:31 "Cons: As mentioned by others, the heat sink rises above and wraps around the top of the card. I couldn't get the door on my case to close with the card installed, will have to modify the ventilation cowl on the door." 21:13:44 Phantom_Hoover: Your ears -- how tolerant are they of white noise? 21:13:58 I'm not actually sure. 21:14:07 Give be a sample and I'll check. 21:14:21 -!- wareya has joined. 21:14:48 There's that old Dan's Data review of a cat, which has a pro/con comparison table between the set of {kitten, puppy, baby, new video card}, with those things scoring 11, 6, 2 and 3 points, respectively. 21:14:50 Phantom_Hoover: That is kind of hard without calibrating your volume... 21:14:52 http://www.dansdata.com/kitten.htm 21:14:53 elliott, what is that monster fan? 21:15:02 Vorpal: Which monster fan? 21:15:13 elliott, the one you listed cons for 21:15:24 oh wait, heatsink 21:15:27 which monster heatsink 21:15:29 Vorpal: No, graphics card. 21:15:30 With heatsink. 21:15:36 okay, which one? 21:15:37 It's not that big. Just big for a graphics card. 21:15:50 fizzie: dan's data is my favourite site ever 21:15:56 Vorpal: I've gone off the page now. 21:16:16 Vorpal: Here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500155 21:16:24 -!- wareya_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:17:07 Both of my passively-cooled GPUs -- Geforces 7600something and 8600something -- have rather huger heatsinks than that; fortunately I don't have very much stuff inside the chassis. (One of them has a rather silly thing that can be adjusted to a 90-degree angle.) 21:17:41 "Note that kittens in standby mode still emit noticeable heat. This is normal; no efforts to cool the kitten with fans, heat sinks, water jackets or chilled Fluorinert immersion should be made." 21:18:08 elliott, passive or what+ 21:18:11 s/+/?/ 21:18:26 Vorpal: Yes, it's a passively cooled kitten. 21:18:28 "NOTE: Kittens do not have any computer-compatible ports. Don't try to plug anything into them. I'm serious." 21:18:47 elliott, about the GPU :P 21:18:58 I linked. Click :P 21:19:01 It looks like this thing, except more so: http://www.techfuels.com/attachments/everything-else/7232d1225013048-asus-en7600gt-video-card-asus-en7600gt-video-card.jpg -- the thing there is supposed to be rotated 90 degrees so that it's airflowly speaking cooled better. 21:19:04 Unless you meant "passive /or what/" 21:19:04 elliott, I have come to the conclusion that I am tolerant of white noise. 21:19:18 elliott, hm perhaps I did. If that is the right answer :P 21:19:21 Phantom_Hoover: Spoken like someone who has never heard a GPU fan. 21:19:26 elliott, anyway I saw nothing saying kitten on that page 21:19:29 Vorpal: "X or WHAT?" i.e. "Very X!" 21:19:32 Vorpal: http://www.dansdata.com/kitten.htm 21:19:43 "Herewith, a rundown of the relative merits of four options for the computer enthusiast - a kitten, a puppy, a baby, and (as a representative example of the more usual kind of home information technology purchase) a new video card." 21:19:47 * Phantom_Hoover slams up the volume on the noise generator. 21:19:47 Oh, and here's the passively-cooled 8600gt I have: http://techreport.com/r.x/12962_Gigabyte_Silent_Pipe_3_finds_redemption/gigabyte-silent-gt.jpg 21:19:49 elliott, I meant the newegg link... 21:20:04 Or at least it's in the same style. 21:21:28 elliott, I can tolerate it at full volume. 21:21:41 Phantom_Hoover: While doing things 21:21:43 ? 21:21:45 It's soothing. 21:21:51 elliott, define "doing things". 21:21:57 I'm reading that kitten review. 21:22:09 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, GPU fans are not exactly pure white noise... 21:22:15 Imagine a hoover's noise. You should be familiar with them, being one. 21:22:26 Do phantom hoovers make a noise, I wonder? 21:22:32 Maybe it's just some sort of ghostly clanking. 21:22:34 Hmm. The sheer volume of that noise annoys me. 21:23:01 even i don't like hoover noise :o 21:23:08 hoovoise 21:23:26 and i love drilling, hammering and all kinds of motors 21:23:35 I don't like the Roomba noise, and despite all prior evidence (youtube), our cat just simply refuses to ride on it. 21:24:28 "Our"? 21:24:31 fizzie: scotch tape? 21:24:34 what is wrong with "vacuum cleaner"? 21:24:38 Phantom_Hoover: wife 21:24:38 fizzie: Does it actually work? 21:24:45 Phantom_Hoover: Oh come on, you know the answer to that. 21:24:49 fizzie has multiple personality disorder. 21:25:03 (It is utterly unthinkable that anyone in #esoteric would ever be in any kind of relationship ever. Unless it's with a dog or something.) 21:25:06 yeah, fizzie married his alter ego fizziet 21:25:12 *fizzief 21:25:12 oklopol, fizzie's married to his multiple personality? 21:25:18 It's fizzie, and fizzie fizzie. 21:25:19 ^ 21:25:38 elliott, that counts as a relationship. Even if with himself 21:25:39 oklopol! 21:25:44 augur! 21:25:46 sup you 21:25:47 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:25:48 Vorpal: Or a dog? 21:25:50 It is also inconceivable that someone here is even vaguely related to a female. 21:25:50 elliott, as long as he isn't a dog or something it isn't possible 21:25:51 yeah 21:26:03 augur: all kinds of uninteresting stuff! 21:26:07 Phantom_Hoover: Well, we've had three females in here over our entire history. 21:26:07 How many confirmedly female people have there been here? 21:26:09 I think. 21:26:09 oklopol: oh? do tell! 21:26:11 3. 21:26:16 Three. 21:26:31 well i just ate some stuff and watched family guy 21:26:36 and i own a piano 21:26:40 and i'm not wearing socks 21:26:49 elliott: Well, it's not as thorough as a human vacuumerizer, and takes quite a lot longer, but it does take care of most of the dust and cat-fur conglomerations. This place would actually be pretty clean if we just bothered to run that thing every few days, but I'm too lazy to move the heavy dining table chairs out of its way that often. 21:26:57 How did we ever manage such a ridiculous demographic thing? 21:27:05 also i'm giving this talk in a CA conference 21:27:06 WELCOME TO IRC 21:27:20 `addquote well i just ate some stuff and watched family guy and i own a piano and i'm not wearing socks 21:27:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 21:27:29 259| well i just ate some stuff and watched family guy and i own a piano and i'm not wearing socks 21:29:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:29:35 ais523: did you hear i'm not wearing socks 21:29:49 and how's the phd going 21:30:04 Hey, unless my /who is lying, this unknown "aloril" person is also a .fi one; has the hypothetical Finnish channel domination plan taken one more step ahead? 21:30:38 has he talked? 21:30:52 i don't think so 21:30:55 Maybe he's a she! (I was trying to look for female-sounding realnames; out of 54 surely there should be at least one.) 21:31:08 oklopol: no socks?! 21:31:11 me either :o 21:31:15 :O 21:31:18 holy fuck! 21:31:36 * augur pokes oklotoes 21:31:40 -!- fungot has joined. 21:31:47 fungot: Which gender are you? 21:31:47 fizzie: hmmm... apache/ 1.3.33 is hard to spell because it's had so many machines ( suns) it collapsed.... like nuns in the street 21:31:53 Hey, unless my /who is lying, this unknown "aloril" person is also a .fi one; has the hypothetical Finnish channel domination plan taken one more step ahead? 21:31:59 I *know* I've heard of a related aloril lately. 21:32:45 Let me tally up the female hominids whose names I remember... Sukoshi, lilja. 21:32:47 * augur flops on oklopol 21:33:05 I know for sure there is one more that's been in here. fax I just won't even get into after what happened the last time I referred to it as any sort of gender. 21:33:08 Google seems to suggest just Computer Go. 21:33:13 Yes, our oestrogen levels are off the charts. 21:33:16 fizzie: ? 21:33:25 elliott: For "aloril". 21:33:26 Ah. 21:33:32 It rings *such* a bell though 21:33:34 *though. 21:33:49 elliott: Well, also some things in a game of life context. 21:33:55 Hmm. 21:34:05 augur: ouch 21:34:18 oklopol: dont worry, i was gentle 21:34:22 fizzie: hmmm... apache/ 1.3.33 is hard to spell because it's had so many machines ( suns) it collapsed.... like nuns in the street <-- eh, good try at ryhme. suns, nuns... 21:34:23 Vorpal: modulo 350? *l*) fnord in python the true and false in that definition 21:34:35 i beat mirror's edge earlier today :T 21:34:39 Vorpal: "It collapsed like nuns in the street" -- my favourite line of all lines. 21:35:31 `style 21:35:32 No output. 21:35:44 elliott, you forgot the ... 21:35:52 Unsupported street nuns are prone to collapse. 21:35:54 Vorpal: It was "....", actually. 21:36:00 elliott, ah indeed 21:36:14 ^style 21:36:14 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 21:36:19 fizzie, like minecraft sand? 21:36:22 Vorpal: Minecraft and reddit: Good career moves. "You know that guy that built a computer on minecraft? He got a job because some company saw it on reddit. A freaking job." 21:36:36 elliott, wow 21:36:45 elliott, are you sure it is true? 21:36:57 elliott, also what type of job 21:37:03 Vorpal: Well-publicised YouTube video... so I'd guess so. 21:37:06 (And the same person on reddit.) 21:37:10 Vorpal: Type of job - probably programmer... 21:37:18 Vorpal: "Would you please stop, and just come to work for me? 21:37:19 " 21:37:23 "If you're within a couple hundred miles of Athens, GA when I finish my degree, look me up." 21:37:25 elliott, could be hw designer :P 21:37:25 "We are in downtown Atlanta, specializing in massive multiplayer games." 21:37:31 elliott, if it was I would be scared 21:37:36 Vorpal: see above 21:37:44 elliott, ah 21:37:45 Later: 21:37:48 "Hey now, I created an ALU, plus the rest of a fully functioning CPU in LogicWorks when I was in University, and no one offered me a job!" 21:37:52 [same company guy] "Send me your resume." 21:38:15 :P 21:39:52 Everyone who continues the tradition of referring to me as "she" for the purpose of opinion (is there anyone left?): Try "it". It's 10x so. 21:39:54 (did ais523? I forget.) 21:40:17 elliott: I think I saw him refer to you as "he or she" the other day. 21:40:26 fizzie: No, that's standard ais523. 21:40:50 Does he do that for known-gender targets too? Well, why not, I guess. 21:41:14 fizzie: Yes. 21:41:20 fizzie: Mostly "e" though. Well. On Agora. 21:41:22 *In? 21:41:30 Under. 21:42:05 over (and a smidgen to the left). 21:42:34 (I love that word, very seldom you get a chance to use it though) 21:42:37 ais523 is Lumenos? 21:42:39 Noooooooooooooooo 21:42:58 Phantom_Hoover, who? 21:43:12 You _don't_ want to know.. 21:44:04 Yeah, you don't :P 21:45:47 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:47:26 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 21:49:27 Vorpal: Here's the multiplayer "I can see right through you" bug; happened to be walking by, got a shot: http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree9.png (If you'd go nearer to the edge, you'd probably see a huge pile of lava caves. The missing blocks have already appeared, though.) 21:51:26 fizzie, subtree seems to stretch it a bit :P 21:51:46 fizzie, and I saw that on the local server I tested 21:51:49 just after loading 21:51:56 Yes, I should've probably started with a more generic name. 21:52:00 persisted for a minute 21:52:11 * pikhq feels like vomiting 21:52:17 And it ſuckeþ 21:52:43 I don't blame you: graphics glitches make me pretty nauseous too. 21:53:27 God, I really can't handle other people with the same name as me... 21:54:34 Phantom_Hoover: Okay, Nick. 21:54:37 Phantom_Hoover: Okay, George. 21:54:39 Phantom_Hoover: Okay, Richard. 21:54:41 Phantom_Hoover: Okay, John. 21:54:43 Phantom_Hoover: Okay, Harry. 21:54:45 ... 21:54:51 You will literally _never_ hit it. 21:55:47 Phantom_Hoover: Rasputin. 21:55:51 John Jacob Jingleheimershmit? 21:55:56 This'll be fun. 21:56:01 pikhq: Hey. That name is my name too! 21:56:10 Phantom_Hoover: Indianajones (one word). 21:56:19 Phantom_Hoover: Valentinez Alkalinella Xifax Sicidabohertz Gombigobilla Blue Stradivari Talentrent Pierre Andri Charton-Haymoss Ivanovici Baldeus George Doitzel Kaiser III? 21:56:26 elliott: What an astounding coincidence. 21:56:29 Phantom_Hoover: Ronjeremy-Mozart. 21:56:29 Nope. 21:56:38 WAIT 21:56:39 I KNOWI T 21:56:40 *KNOW IT 21:56:42 Phantom_Hoover: El-ahrairah. 21:56:44 Nope. 21:56:59 Phantom_Hoover: Fuckface? 21:57:09 Phantom_Hoover: Love Symbol #2? 21:57:15 Nope. 21:57:21 Phantom_Hoover: Big Fucking Edward? 21:57:25 It is an actual _name_. 21:57:32 So's Love Symbol #2. 21:57:33 Phantom_Hoover: So's Big Fucking Edward. 21:57:45 Nope. 21:57:49 ais523: can you *believe* rutian still exists? 21:58:01 Phantom_Hoover: [symbol naming the artist formerly known as Prince] 21:58:10 No. 21:58:23 Hoover? 21:58:46 Phantom_Hoover: Jovb? 22:00:02 Actually, augur knew it at one point, but I'll kill him if he speaks. 22:00:47 -!- gm|lap has joined. 22:03:02 elliott: The name of the symbol is Love Symbol #2. Or, if someone puts it into Unicode, LOVE SYMBOL 2 22:04:41 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:04:59 pikhq: Oh, is it? 22:05:06 augur, what's phanty's name? 22:07:51 Linux rutian 2.6.16.29-xen #1 SMP Sun Sep 30 04:00:13 UTC 2007 x86_64 22:07:52 ehird@rutian:~$ 22:08:01 God it's slow. 22:09:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:09:40 augur, did I mention how you'll die if you speak? 22:09:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:10:03 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 22:10:41 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:13:34 elliott: Yuh. 22:16:58 ais523: can you *believe* rutian still exists? <--- I'd be quite surprised that nobody had unVMed it by now 22:17:16 ais523: I don't understand your statement. 22:17:40 elliott: have you seen http://www.es40.org/ES40_Emulator? 22:18:25 olsner: aha 22:18:32 olsner: seems imperfect :) 22:18:40 most definitely 22:18:46 http://www.es40.org/Running_Tru64_UNIX_in_the_Emulator 22:18:57 hm!. 22:20:07 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:20:09 this palcode thing alphas have seems pretty neat 22:20:48 eugh, "Timing problems introduced with the new threading model (needs research)" 22:20:50 palcode? 22:21:10 Gregor: Is prgmr still crap? 22:21:20 it's like a library of subroutines you can load into the cpu as your own assembly instructions 22:21:25 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:21:35 or "microcode", but you write them in alpha assembly afaict 22:21:44 elliott: It's mostly gone back to normal. I never measured the disk speed before, so I don't really have the right baseline, I feel like it's a BIT slower, but not horribly slow... 22:22:04 Gregor: Would you recommend it? :P 22:22:11 -!- WebCoding4Fun has joined. 22:22:12 Yes. 22:22:15 -!- WebCoding4Fun has left (?). 22:22:25 Gregor: ...with the kind of problems you've had? 22:22:28 What I would NOT recommend is web coding for fun. 22:22:33 elliott: That is the ONLY problem I've had. 22:22:34 :D 22:22:42 Gregor: Pretty long and big problem :P 22:23:17 elliott: It only seemed like a big problem from the perspective of #esoteric since I had to kill the bots :P 22:23:28 Gregor: Dude, you pasted dd output :P 22:23:36 How long did it last? 22:23:47 Idonno, it just sort of faded away X-P 22:24:17 Gregor: How long was it that bad? :P 22:24:23 Do any computers allow dynamically changing microcodes while the program is running? 22:24:41 elliott: Probably about two weeks. 22:24:50 Gregor: Doesn't inspire confidence, man :P 22:25:13 elliott: Why did you even ask me if you've already decided they suck? 22:25:45 Gregor: I haven't; I *did* recommend them to you. I'm trying to figure out how you don't consider this a deal-breaker. 22:26:10 Because they halved my rent for the month things were bad? X-P 22:26:29 Gregor: Fair 'nuff; server-wide problem then? :P 22:26:32 No. 22:26:37 Gregor: LAWL. 22:26:41 Err, yes, where "server" = box. 22:26:42 Gregor: Universe hates you? 22:27:30 The universe wurves me :P 22:27:47 Gregor: Which vips do you haev agaein? 22:27:50 Tpjioi 22:28:25 Gregor: As in which plan 22:28:32 $20/mo 22:28:53 Gregor: HRY THAT'S WHAT IM GETTING WE'REER LIKE VPS SEOUL MAYTZ 22:28:58 zzo38: The N64's GPU and audio processor was designed around that. 22:29:19 As were the two vector units on the Playstation 2. 22:29:23 (VU0 and VU1) 22:29:26 Gregor: Is the RAM ... usable? :P 22:29:31 (so many fucking processors on that SOB) 22:30:06 elliott: It seems to be quite sufficient for everything I do *shrugs* 22:30:19 Gregor: LIKE MINECRAFT SERVERS AMIRITGH 22:30:37 Gregor: Y'know, it'd run a hell of a lot better with 22:30:38 KITTEN 22:30:56 It's Xen, install whatever you want to. 22:31:13 Is it possible to make computer hardware such that a processor can have the NMI handler in a fixed location in ROM but that the other interrupt handlers are RAM? 22:31:27 elliott, will Kitten support the PH-220 GPU? 22:31:45 Phantom_Hoover: Absolutely!* 22:31:47 *Not. 22:31:51 Gregor: Ah, but you see, I need YOUR AXE. 22:32:01 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:32:03 Gregor: (Does it let you use a completely fucked-up kernel?) 22:32:06 But it's a kitten with a tinfoil had with a USB lead attached! 22:32:09 Gregor: (We're talking no modules here.) 22:32:14 HOW CAN YOU NOT SUPPORT IT 22:32:15 Phantom_Hoover: AWWWWWWW 22:32:20 *hat 22:32:26 does it go "mew" 22:32:27 elliott: So long as it's compiled for Xen and has the Xen virtual HD support etc. 22:32:34 elliott, yes. Yes it does. 22:32:36 -!- oklopol has joined. 22:32:54 Phantom_Hoover: :3 22:32:56 It also purrs when it gets to some heavy-duty rendering. 22:33:01 Gregor: That sounds BEYOND BORING* *Is that easy to do? 22:33:08 Phantom_Hoover: ^_______________________^ can i buy it 22:33:31 elliott: No clue. 22:33:33 Well, my cat is a) male and b) neutered, so we're short of supply right now. 22:33:42 Gregor: lawl 22:33:55 Phantom_Hoover: Sex change + ovary transplant. 22:34:08 He might not be happy. 22:34:17 There are plenty of kittens to go around anyhow. 22:34:49 Is there a Windows driver for USB devices that use Plan 9 protocol? Is there a Linux driver for USB devices that use Plan 9 protocol? 22:35:07 zzo38: Well, uh, Linux has 9P support... 22:35:45 * comex is bored 22:35:46 elliott: Can you mount a USB device that can communicate to the computer by using 9P? 22:35:49 * comex annotates CFJs for the ruleset 22:36:30 zzo38: I... don't know. 22:36:38 comex: vote for my porpoise^Wproposal 22:36:43 comex: its democrat 22:36:44 yeah that's why I clicked this channel 22:36:50 elliott, also, the kitten chases after the things it's rendering. 22:37:00 elliott: MORE LIKE DEMON CRAP 22:37:12 Gregor: RULE 34 ZOMG 22:37:18 Phantom_Hoover: ;_; why do youd o this to me 22:37:20 *you do 22:37:43 If you render buildings it hides in them. 22:37:49 And it plays with lasers. 22:38:12 STOP IT 22:39:13 It can serve as a sound card too, but its range of outputs are limited. 22:39:42 I would love to hear a kitten output Never Gonna Give You Up. 22:39:44 Or Chocolate Rain. 22:40:28 Mewmew mewmew mew mew purrr, mewmew mewmew mew mew purrr, mewmew mewmew... 22:41:36 That so does not translate X-P 22:41:45 If you give it a dish of milk you can get a temporary boost in performance. 22:41:48 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:41:57 Instead of installing USB devices on /dev/sdb and so on, it should install USB devices on /dev/usb/00.d and so on. (And give the file timestamp according to when the device is connected) 22:43:58 It has long periods of downtime, however, and a habit of blocking the fan vent. 22:56:01 -!- cheater99 has joined. 23:08:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:21:32 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 23:25:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:49:46 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:51:02 Vorpal: I reject your epoll! 23:51:22 Vorpal: And substitute my FORKING. Because I'm NONCONFORMIST. 23:51:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.