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00:02:13 <Hiant> Hello, Sgeo. The bot attacking the Minecraft wiki is the same as the one attacking esolang...
00:03:08 <Hiant> The link locations, and the style of attack, is the same.
00:06:27 <Hiant> elliott_, I believe it must be targeting Mediawiki.
00:07:49 <Hiant> elliott_, sorry for stating the obvious ;)
00:24:58 <Sasha> http://anyhub.net/file/_Oo-2010-11-23_17.08.37.png
00:26:57 <Slereah> I can tell from the pixels
00:27:05 <Sasha> I made those moons
00:28:33 <Sgeo> Minecraft has hovering blocks?
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00:29:44 <Sasha> you can make that happen
00:29:59 <Sasha> butyou know how it normally has a day/night cycle?
00:30:24 <Sasha> I took out the normal moon from the game files and put in my own cooler ones
00:32:22 * Sgeo knows little about Minecraft
00:32:44 <Sgeo> Except it's like AW with limited resources and only one model
00:32:57 <elliott_> Sgeo: FUCK THE FUCK OFF ACTIVEWORLDS IS A PIECE OF BORING USELESS SHIT AND MINECRAFT IS A FUN GAME
00:33:23 <Sgeo> If you needed to collect objects in AW to build in AW, would it make AW more interesting/
00:33:24 <Vorpal> Sgeo, it is nothing like that
00:33:43 <Quadlex> elliott_: CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL
00:34:07 <elliott_> Quadlex: when talking to NostalgiaForeverAndEverBot^WSgeo, yes, yes it is.
00:34:21 <Quadlex> elliott_: Oh. Wel. Carry on ^_^
00:34:58 <Sgeo> Sasha, 3d virtual worlds thing
00:35:15 <elliott_> Sasha: what sgeo means to say is
00:35:19 <elliott_> Sasha: it's like second life, only
00:35:19 <Sasha> so... Infiniminer?
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00:35:28 <elliott_> Sasha: (2) ancient and unupdated and dead.
00:35:34 <elliott_> Sgeo still likes it because he is stuck in 2000.
00:35:41 <Sgeo> I object to that "unupdated" part!
00:35:50 <Sgeo> Although AW has some niceties that SL doesn't
00:36:18 <Sgeo> It's easier to make particles and vehicles in AW than SL. And in game worlds, bots can forcibly teleport people
00:36:27 <Sgeo> And it's easier to build than in SL
00:36:36 <Sasha> Can't get stupider
00:36:42 <Sgeo> Although arguably there's less room for creativity than non-world owners
00:37:05 <Sgeo> Sasha, there are no flying penises in AW
00:37:18 <Sgeo> Although I guess you could make one.. with some difficulty
00:37:36 <Sgeo> Too annoying to use by griefers, at any rate
00:37:58 <Sgeo> The typical method of griefing in places like AWNewbie was to put goatse-esque pictures everywhere
00:38:10 <Sgeo> But that's not possible in, say, a conference room where the ground is covered
00:39:51 <Sgeo> http://maprejuice.com/problem
00:39:58 <Sgeo> Please tell me that a human looks this over.
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00:42:53 <Sasha> Why am I out of bacon
00:43:27 <Sgeo> Tylenol (Taking a whole bottle of Tylenol kills you so how could taking one help you? It doesnt)
00:43:39 <elliott_> <Sgeo> Tylenol (“Taking a whole bottle of Tylenol kills you so how could taking one help you? It doesn’t”)
00:43:45 <Sgeo> http://skepchick.org/blog/2010/11/skeptical-ninjas-undercover-jamie-and-buffy-and-the-autism-expo/
00:43:46 <elliott_> i don't see the relevance of this or anything
00:43:54 <elliott_> Sgeo: that does not answer my question
00:43:58 <elliott_> i already know that tylenol is useless.
00:44:23 <Sgeo> elliott_, some group claimed at an autism expo that Tylenol causes autism
00:44:43 <elliott_> Sgeo: It doesn't, but Tylenol is a basically-ineffective painkiller and fatal at scarily low dosages.
00:44:45 <Sgeo> And also, that line of reasoning would mean that there's no such thing as a beneficial medication
00:46:13 <pikhq> Sgeo: By that notion, water is not beneficial.
00:46:31 <pikhq> After all, that can kill you.
00:46:43 <elliott_> <Sgeo> And also, that line of reasoning would mean that there's no such thing as a beneficial medication
00:46:47 <elliott_> what ais523 was on, for instance
00:46:52 <pikhq> (water poisoning is a terrible, terrible way to die)
00:47:56 <Sgeo> In health class, they showed us a video about some girl who took ecstacy, drank too much water, and died from the water
00:49:34 <pikhq> elliott_: Your brain swells.
00:49:53 <pikhq> elliott_: And then it stops working.
00:50:02 <Sgeo> Are their pain ... thingies in the brain?
00:50:08 <elliott_> <Sgeo> Are their pain ... thingies in the brain?
00:50:10 <Vorpal> elliott_, after I could access the secret chest
00:50:25 <Sgeo> I mean, whatever nerves are throughout the body
00:50:51 <Sgeo> That tell the brain "hey, this part of the body is in pain"
00:51:10 <elliott_> i think you could tell though. if someone was poking your brain
00:51:15 <Sgeo> So it's not painful then?
00:51:18 <pikhq> It *does* however contain the circuitry for most of your bodily functions.
00:51:20 <Vorpal> <elliott_> what ais523 was on, for instance <-- painkiller?
00:51:35 <elliott_> Vorpal: no, he has all sorts of intolerances
00:51:42 <elliott_> Vorpal: so he drunk this liquid for nutrition for a while
00:51:50 <elliott_> Vorpal: and it was completely balanced
00:51:51 <pikhq> (the spinal cord handles a large number of reflexes. And walking.)
00:52:04 <elliott_> Vorpal: well, i dunno about allergies, but intolerances of various sorts.
00:52:18 <Sgeo> The walking brain-dead? :D
00:52:22 <elliott_> Vorpal: he said something like if he consumed too many dairy products they thought he'd *become* allergic :)
00:52:30 <elliott_> Sgeo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPiLLplofYw
00:52:33 <elliott_> Sgeo: cat without brain walking
00:52:34 <Vorpal> elliott_, he could stop doing it?
00:52:44 <elliott_> Vorpal: well, yes, but safer to just avoid it than risk your life don't you think...
00:53:05 <Sasha> okay, found more bacon
00:53:18 <Vorpal> elliott_, but a bit boring in the long run
00:53:33 <elliott_> like a HOMOSEXUAL VEGAN ANARCHIST
00:53:42 <pikhq> Sgeo: Fun fact: the only reason babies can't walk is a lack of balance. The mammalian walking reflex works perfectly from birth.
00:53:53 <pikhq> ... Oh, and muscle strength. That too.
00:54:30 <elliott_> I'll walk YOUR mammalian reflex!
00:54:39 <Vorpal> elliott_, you need sleep
00:54:50 <Sgeo> Vorpal is turning into me!
00:54:50 <Vorpal> elliott_, I lerned to read your signs
00:55:23 <Vorpal> elliott_, more so than usual :P
00:55:25 <Sgeo> Telling elliott_ to go to sleep?
00:56:23 <Vorpal> <Sasha> I made those moons <-- uh
00:56:40 <Vorpal> Sasha, that flow around the smaller one looks wrong
00:56:51 <Vorpal> Sasha, not torches is it?
00:57:07 <Sasha> it's just the game files
00:57:13 <Sasha> I didn't make it in-game
00:57:24 <Sasha> I made it in Paint and put it in the thing
00:57:46 <Sasha> it's what rises after the sun's had its turn
00:57:56 <Sasha> the watch is edited to match
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01:00:24 <Vorpal> Sgeo, yes I know the normal moon
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01:01:10 <Vorpal> oh well, need to sleep.
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01:11:43 <Sgeo> TNG "Birthright"
01:11:59 <Sgeo> Should I bother watching, or should I stay in my room and let the comp charge a bit more?
01:12:03 <Sgeo> I think I'll watch
01:12:33 <Sgeo> Well, half-assedly watch
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01:13:44 <Sgeo> Why does the voice acting sounds crappy?
01:14:04 <Sgeo> Erm, I mean, they're not voice actors, ofc, but.. what's the term I want?
01:26:41 <Sgeo> It is late. It is time to sleep. I do not know what an inflection is.
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02:01:45 <Sgeo> Filler episode it looks like
02:01:59 <Sgeo> At least it might give some details on a past filler
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02:04:35 * Sgeo loves when questions are answered
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02:07:59 <Hiant> Has anyone here every used the programming language ocaml (objective caml)?
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02:29:16 <Sgeo> Hiant, probably
02:29:47 <Hiant> Sgeo, I figured, but I was wondering about its...practicality.
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06:31:30 <Ugo> Hello. I try translate to Russian this webcomix: http://xkcd.com/189 but don't understand what means "con". Can somebody explain it?
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06:40:52 <Sgeo> Constitution, as in.. physical ability to survive injury, I _think_
06:40:59 <Sgeo> (It's an RPG term)
06:41:14 <Sgeo> I don't really know much about those
06:41:38 <Sgeo> This is a really weird channel to join to ask that question, though
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06:50:17 <Ugo> Yeees! Exactly!! Thank you!
06:51:30 <Ugo> I'm dumb - it's was obviously! Con = constitution.
06:52:42 <Sgeo> You're welcome
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07:45:31 <Vorpal> ineiros, can you do a new map sometime today?
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08:37:54 <Vorpal> ineiros, you could time the topo one yeah
08:38:41 <Vorpal> ineiros, hm image size grows much faster than map size
08:39:13 <Vorpal> O(n) vs. O(n²) if you explore like a + shape
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08:41:53 <Vorpal> ineiros, was there any name for the south direction? There was "frigid north" "wild west", "exotic east", but I never heard any for south
08:51:08 <fizzie> Sunny south? Sandy south?
08:51:47 <fizzie> I tried to ask the Internet, but the results weren't very interesting: http://p.zem.fi/sfoo-south
09:04:51 <fizzie> Sunny is quite high up if I look for adjectives with a really ad-hoc method like http://p.zem.fi/sfoo-south-2
09:05:35 <fizzie> Possibly "scenic south" too.
09:58:15 <fizzie> Heh, Notch-blog: "SMP Health Update is out -- I’m expecting bugs on this one, so I’m monitoring the usual channels (irc, twitter, email) extra carefully. [--] [edit:] Wow, that broke the game. Hold on while I try to fix stuff."
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13:19:16 <Ilari> Ouch... I'm reading EU note about IPv6... Yeah, good on the paper, but on pracice...
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15:03:22 <cheater99> LOLZ: https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/idkjdjficifbfjjkdkiimioljbloddpl#
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16:07:12 <elliott> Vorpal: Has the server been upgraded?
16:07:18 <elliott> Please say "no but it works magically anyway".
16:07:44 <fizzie> Or if it has, ineiros has sneakily done it without notifying us.
16:07:56 <elliott> == is totally a valid way to write >=
16:08:02 <fizzie> Yes, I can't connect to the server with either the old or the new client.
16:08:20 <elliott> fizzie: Old one because the login fails, presumably, due to that being the only way to stop it upgrading?
16:08:23 <coppro> elliott: they're both categories, even!
16:08:33 <coppro> (category theory is awesome)
16:08:33 <ineiros> Haven't done anything to the server yet.
16:08:47 <fizzie> Yes, I tried the old one with the "wrong password" thing.
16:09:31 <fizzie> Might be a deliberate thing to make outdated versions just plain old stop working like that, who knows.
16:10:06 <elliott> fizzie: Might be. Seems a bit of a dick move, since I bought the damn game.
16:10:22 <elliott> fizzie: Seeing as the login is essentially DRM, and if Minecraft's servers ever go bye-bye permanently, we're all out of a game.
16:10:29 <elliott> (What made Notch think that was a good idea?)
16:10:41 <fizzie> Third-party servers don't do that check, I think.
16:10:50 <fizzie> But sure, it's a bit iffy.
16:11:10 <elliott> fizzie: Still get to have the client yelling at you for not being premium all the time. :)
16:11:36 <elliott> "Basically, its a backend for Gtk+ 3 that renders in a browser."
16:11:42 <elliott> because the web wasn't GUIified enough!
16:12:35 <elliott> "Each toplevel window is mapped to a canvas element, and the content in the windows is updated by streaming commands over a multipart/x-mixed-replace XMLHttpRequest that uses gzip Content-Encoding to compress the data. Window data is pushed as region copies (for scrolling) and image diffs. Images are sent as data: uris of uncompressed png data."
16:12:44 <elliott> Not even HTML-based; niiiiiiiiiice.
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16:13:03 <fizzie> He did say he'd ("probably") open-sourcify it when sales taper off; hopefully also in the case he manages to bankrupt that company of his and have minecraft.net go away. Still.
16:13:48 <elliott> fizzie: Will sales taper off?
16:14:01 <fizzie> They probably will if the servers go down. :p
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16:14:54 <elliott> fizzie: I have a feeling the code is a bit imperfect.
16:15:09 <elliott> He didn't have the foresight to make single-player a name for "connection to localhost". :p
16:15:49 <fizzie> Yes, well, "I had to disable leaves decaying again (sorry!) because it caused infinite loops in certain situations."
16:16:01 <fizzie> There's a good chance it's quite horrible.
16:16:38 <elliott> [[pvp. True by default. If this is set to false, players can’t hurt other players.
16:16:38 <elliott> spawn-monsters. True by default. Set to false to remove all monsters.
16:16:39 <elliott> spawn-animals. Also true by default. Set to false to remove all animals.]]
16:16:44 <elliott> No health disabling. Sigh.
16:16:49 <elliott> Ha, ha: [[Wow, that broke the game. Hold on while I try to fix stuff.]]
16:17:23 <fizzie> Obviously there's a reason he calls it alpha. (It's just a very public form of alpha.)
16:17:43 <elliott> fizzie: Well, yes, but let's be fair here, we are *paying* him for it. And it's not like we had a choice about paying him or not.
16:18:03 <elliott> fizzie: Anyway I don't mind bugginess; I *do* mind taking away freedoms like "running an older version" though.
16:18:48 <elliott> If mobs are invisible, ensure your difficulty setting is not peaceful. I was still being attacked by mobs, but couldn't see them. Once my difficulty was off peaceful, I could see them again."
16:19:12 <fizzie> ineiros: Has the server console said anything interesting for the connection attempts?
16:19:42 <ineiros> I'll check later, I'm on the move now.
16:19:49 <fizzie> This should all be on #esoteric-minecraft (no, I didn't make that) anyway. :p
16:19:58 <elliott> fizzie: Well, the error it spits back is "hurr ur client is too young".
16:20:04 <elliott> Which is an interesting kind of arithmetic.
16:20:24 <fizzie> You have to be this tall to ride.
16:27:01 <ineiros> fizzie: Do you already have a process to byte-patch the server?-)
16:27:54 <elliott> ineiros: I suggest you decompile the classes, find something that looks like it talks to minecraft.net, remove it, find something that looks at the client version, remove it, and recompile. And hope it doesn't verify itself. :p
16:28:35 <elliott> And also try not to think how annoying that will be to do.
16:29:00 <ineiros> That's an option in the serrver itself, but there's no way I'm activating that.
16:29:15 <ineiros> Disabling the user-checking, that is.
16:29:45 <ineiros> Ah, the version check. I'd expect that it's necessary.
16:29:50 <elliott> ineiros: Why? I mean, apart from the fact that it lets oklopol in.
16:30:00 <elliott> (But yeah, that's what I meant.)
16:30:06 <elliott> ineiros: But, err, what I'm saying is
16:30:12 <ineiros> It also lets anyone in as anyone else.
16:30:21 <elliott> Who else knows the address?
16:30:34 <Vorpal> <elliott> Vorpal: Has the server been upgraded? <-- I have no clue
16:30:37 <elliott> ineiros: If it only works with the older client, then you could remove the minecraft.net check and we could just use an invalid password forever so we can keep the old client. As impractical as that is.
16:30:43 <elliott> ineiros: That's why I suggested it.
16:30:57 <elliott> Although I don't see how anyone without the server address could get to it anyway.
16:31:04 <Vorpal> elliott, patch client to login with fake version
16:31:12 <Vorpal> elliott, and not download upgrade
16:31:13 <elliott> Vorpal: Patching the server is more practical.
16:31:24 <Vorpal> elliott, presumably the protocol changed
16:31:26 <elliott> Vorpal: Also, it's likely that the client is actually incompatible with the new server.
16:31:29 <ineiros> Maybe Notch will add more options later.
16:31:41 <elliott> ineiros: Is that code for "yer gettin' health"? :p
16:31:47 <elliott> Skyway temporarily death trap.
16:31:51 <Vorpal> elliott, yes which is why you patch it to login in but then not report the proper last version
16:31:59 <Vorpal> elliott, all that should be in the launcher
16:32:05 <Vorpal> elliott, and thus be feasible
16:32:12 <elliott> "An escalator can never break: it can only become stairs. You would never see an "Escalator Temporarily Out Of Order" sign, just "Escalator Temporarily Stairs. Sorry for the convenience"." --Mitch Hedberg
16:32:23 <elliott> Vorpal: Have fun with that.
16:32:43 <Vorpal> elliott, the new version makes minecarts work
16:32:47 <Vorpal> so I think upgrading is a good idea
16:33:05 <elliott> Already upgraded (but w/ backup.)
16:33:17 <Vorpal> going to check version history page
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16:33:25 <Vorpal> elliott, no monsters or pvp I hope?
16:33:34 <elliott> Vorpal: Uh, yes, they're in the upgrade.
16:33:41 <Vorpal> elliott, they are options iirc
16:33:42 <elliott> The server has not been updated yet.
16:33:45 <Vorpal> so did ineiros turn those on
16:33:48 <elliott> The server has not been updated yet.
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16:35:21 <Vorpal> "I had to disable leaves decaying again" argh
16:36:16 <Sasha2_> that was a good thing in MC
16:36:24 <Sasha2_> I could have tree farms and cut all the wood
16:36:24 <Vorpal> Sasha2_, that they decayed? yeah
16:36:35 <Sasha2_> and the leaves would decay and drop saplings
16:36:44 <Sasha2_> and I could replenish the fuck out of that resource
16:36:48 <Vorpal> did they drop saplings when decaying?
16:40:06 <Sasha2_> I am designing my own MC texture pack
16:41:57 <Sasha2_> How does one make a thing black and white in Photoshop?
16:42:19 <Vorpal> no clue, I know how in gimp though
16:42:42 <Vorpal> well if you are trained in photoshop then why do you need to ask? ;P
16:42:57 <Sasha2_> that's a human trait, right?
16:43:18 <Vorpal> yes. Unreliable storage is very typical of humans
16:43:30 <fizzie> I'm sure there's a desaturation option; alternatively, it has all those modifier layer things.
16:43:44 <Vorpal> I suggest using RS encoding for your brain
16:43:52 <Vorpal> that should allow you to recreate lost info
16:44:00 <Sasha2_> So, I have this gradient that determines what color the leaves of trees are
16:44:12 <Sasha2_> and I want to make it purple, instead of green
16:44:30 <fizzie> You could just rotate the hue.
16:44:50 <fizzie> I can only tell how you do that in Gimp. :p
16:45:23 <fizzie> But I'm also equally sure there's some hue adjustment thing, or, again, modifier layers. :p
16:45:47 <fizzie> Isn't it supposed to be intuitive to use and all that? (At least when compared to, say, Gimp.)
16:45:55 <Vorpal> Sasha2_, why would you expect someone here to use photoshop?
16:46:02 <elliott> Vorpal: "- Arrows do no damage, they bounce off of enemies and other players as though they were a solid object."
16:46:11 <elliott> "- Respawning appears to make it so you are invisible to other players." <-- YES PLEASE
16:46:14 <Vorpal> elliott, single player too?
16:46:20 <elliott> Sasha2_: wait wait wait you didn't go onto a BAY did you of PIRATES
16:46:28 <elliott> Vorpal: "- I'm not sure whats causing this but something is causing players to desynchronize pretty badly, this often requires the client to reconnect in order to resync with everyone else."
16:46:33 <elliott> "- We had an issue where a minecart fell through the floor entirely after extended travel time."
16:46:38 <elliott> "- Items despawning when a player is killed."
16:46:47 <Sasha2_> No, elliott, I just stole it from my school.
16:47:00 <elliott> ooh THEFT, so now they don't have photoshop any more?
16:47:10 <Vorpal> elliott, I think you can duplicate it
16:47:10 <elliott> you RIPPED THE BITS out of their harddrive and DEPRIVED them of it, like a thief
16:47:17 <elliott> Vorpal: well it would be copying then, he said stole
16:47:22 <Sasha2_> No, they just have 119 copies now.
16:47:40 <Vorpal> oh does it do crazy DRM?
16:47:52 <Sasha2_> And it's not really stole, so much as "hey a shipment of photoshop you don't need, can I have one" "Sure!"
16:47:59 <elliott> well, standard serial key stuff
16:48:03 <Sasha2_> They ordered 120 seperate boxes
16:48:17 <Sasha2_> 120 seperate copies of photoshop
16:48:18 <elliott> (1) why is there a package for the gnome about box
16:48:19 <Vorpal> Sasha2_, I thought you could get volume licenses if you are a company or a school
16:48:27 <elliott> (not to the new gnome, just an *update*)
16:48:33 <Vorpal> elliott, check changelog for the package?
16:48:34 <elliott> how can they *possibly* get that wrong
16:48:35 <Sasha2_> Vorpal: Like I said, they didn't need it
16:48:45 <elliott> Vorpal: too late it's already out of my updater and i'm lazy :P
16:48:52 <Vorpal> Sasha2_, yes but why on earth didn't they get *one* cd + volume license
16:49:04 <Sasha2_> they are not good at thinking
16:49:44 <Sasha2_> I don't really care, it's mine now
16:50:09 <Vorpal> elliott, not in ubuntu yet at least
16:50:26 <elliott> Vorpal: well this is Debian testing, which is more recent than ubuntu ;)
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16:51:01 <elliott> let's see if i can find a decent edit sequence implementation on hackage
16:51:26 <Vorpal> elliott, testing that could explain it
16:51:35 <Vorpal> elliott, edit sequence?
16:51:41 <elliott> Vorpal: Debian testing, also known as "the stable Debian"
16:51:49 <nooga> i'm trying to figure out how would i organize hi-res minecraft-like game
16:51:57 <elliott> Vorpal: (Debian unstable is called "the testing Debian", Debian experimental is called "the unstable Debian",
16:52:06 <elliott> nooga: and Debian stable is called "hi this is 2005 speaking")
16:52:12 <Vorpal> elliott, I always thought that "woody" was a very fitting name for debian stable when woody was that
16:52:29 <elliott> Is wood old or something? :p
16:52:36 <elliott> # edit-distance library and programs: Levenshtein and restricted Damerau-Levenshtein edit distances
16:52:47 <Vorpal> elliott, oh maybe just a Swedish meaning of "woody" then
16:53:01 <elliott> # made or consisting of (entirely or in part) or employing wood; "a wooden box"; "an ancient cart with wooden wheels"
16:53:01 <elliott> # lacking ease or grace; "the actor's performance was wooden"; "a wooden smile"
16:53:13 <elliott> can't find any idiomatic definitions of woody
16:53:33 <elliott> "2. Time to get revenge on griefers, and ban them for life.
16:53:33 <elliott> 3. There will no longer be any griefers after a few more days."
16:53:43 <elliott> i swear these people cry themselves to sleep every night because their minecraft sculpture was GRIEF'd
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16:54:01 <Vorpal> elliott, well, in Swedish "träig" which is the translation of "woody" has some connotations of the second meaning but also of something stuck in old habits. Depends a bit on context.
16:54:12 <elliott> perdito: are you thumb mature?
16:55:41 <perdito> sry..not familiar with..ehm..this kind of expression
16:56:32 <elliott> perdito: ah. i was just trying to scare off the other type that come here
16:56:38 <elliott> (the esoteric-as-in-spirituality kind.)
16:56:44 <elliott> it, er, does not always work :)
16:57:08 <perdito> yess.. but there felt a lil bit spooky
16:57:20 <elliott> our topic is ... a long story
16:57:48 <perdito> u have to know my english is a little bit corroded
16:58:46 <perdito> need a little more practise.. if u excuse
17:05:03 <elliott> Vorpal: "# Drowning enabled in multiplayer."
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17:06:14 <elliott> still -- "# Made players riding carts or boats a long way receive terrain updates."
17:07:15 -!- digger has joined.
17:09:00 <elliott> Oh, and will you be able to turn off decaying leaves manually? Cause I made a whole city out of leaves and now I'm kinda worried about it."
17:09:08 -!- kar8nga has joined.
17:10:22 <perdito> so you're developing games? :)
17:10:38 <elliott> perdito: no, we're just addicted to Minecraft :)
17:10:58 <elliott> perdito: we're http://esolangs.org/
17:11:06 <elliott> wiki is spam infested at the moment
17:11:58 <perdito> yes.. the purpose is kind off abstract
17:12:28 <Gregor> Dude, my thumb is so mature it's currently explaining mortality to its children.
17:14:18 <Vorpal> <elliott> Oh, and will you be able to turn off decaying leaves manually? Cause I made a whole city out of leaves and now I'm kinda worried about it." <-- err. what?
17:14:28 <elliott> Vorpal: quote from blog comment
17:14:54 <Vorpal> they used to decay before.
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17:15:24 <fizzie> Leaves still decay in multiplayer just fine if you just set them on fire.
17:15:57 * elliott decides to write the BF interpreter part of this in C
17:16:18 <perdito> i think "erisian programming" would fit better
17:24:06 <elliott> "Pressure plates can be triggered by minecarts. Wooden plates will trigger whenever any kind of cart passes over them, whereas stone plates are only triggered if the cart has a rider inside (either a player or a mob). Pressure plates do not act as Minecart Tracks, so the cart will stop on the plate unless it has very high speed."
17:24:07 <oklopol> we should change it before everybody starts using "esoteric"
17:24:12 <elliott> Vorpal: sounded cool until that last sentence.
17:24:15 <elliott> oklopol: yeah what with those neologisms
17:24:57 <elliott> ineiros: so what's the cost of a custom sprite on that there server
17:28:04 <fizzie> What sort of custom sprite are you plannering?
17:28:49 <fizzie> I don't think the clients download any graphics from the server, anyway.
17:28:56 <elliott> fizzie: Well, I see you and Vorpal's.
17:29:04 <fizzie> That's just minecraft.net/skin/
17:29:09 <fizzie> Or minecraft.net -> "Preferences".
17:29:18 <elliott> Oh. That transmits across the server?
17:29:26 <elliott> fizzie: I was thinking, specifically, random fully-saturated pixels all over my body.
17:29:30 <elliott> I guess it is not that flexible?
17:29:48 <elliott> LOOK OUT HUMANS, HERE COMES NOISE
17:30:30 <Sasha2_> Woop! Found a leaf decay mod for minecraft!
17:34:46 <elliott> fizzie: I am, uh, semi-transparent.
17:34:47 <elliott> How... how did that happen.
17:35:22 <elliott> fizzie: Hey, hey, that isn't it, http://minecraft.net/skin/skin.jsp?user=fizzie
17:35:51 <elliott> fizzie: So, uh, am I *meant* to be able to become transparent?
17:36:02 <elliott> http://minecraft.net/skin/skin.jsp?user=ehird
17:36:05 <fizzie> I don't know. I wouldn't *think* so.
17:36:21 <elliott> I will now become invisible.
17:36:29 <fizzie> Except for the head accessory slot, that one I think is supposed to have alpha.
17:36:49 <elliott> fizzie: I've just filled the whole image with random pixels. :p
17:36:53 <fizzie> Having it for the actual texture sounds like everyone'd just go invisible all the time.
17:37:19 <Sasha2_> hmm, actually transparency doesn't work in-game on sking
17:37:30 <fizzie> Yes, one would expect it not to.
17:37:39 <fizzie> I guess it's just the viewer, then?
17:39:00 <fizzie> Based on some of those at http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Skin there is transparency for the head-accessory bits, though.
17:39:28 <Sasha2_> for the head-accesory bits only though
17:40:11 <elliott> What does it show as in-game, then?
17:40:21 <Sasha2_> http://minecraft.net/skin/skin.jsp?user=SaintWombat my skin
17:40:34 <elliott> Ha @ the creeper one. I think I might use that.
17:41:57 <Sasha2_> for a while I had a creeper in a siot
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17:47:39 <Gregor> I am the only person on Earth who can receive emails with the subject "T-Rex has Miniature Genitals" that is not spam.
17:47:58 <Gregor> *are, or *an email, whichever.
17:59:28 <ineiros> So, maybe I should do something about the server.
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18:03:06 <Vorpal> elliott, where did you get that about arrows being broken from?
18:03:47 <Vorpal> ineiros, what about this: update it, turn *off* pvp and monsters. Then give us each a chest of diamond spades and diamond pickaxes as compensation for loss of feature? ;P
18:04:16 <Vorpal> ineiros, (that is one big chest of each)
18:06:37 <elliott> omfg omfg omfg omfg omfg omfg omfg omfg
18:06:50 <elliott> and i hear monster noises NEARBY rather than FROM OUTSIDE
18:07:14 <Vorpal> elliott, be careful. And I assume your house is lit?
18:07:37 <elliott> i am scared to go down my mine.
18:07:55 <Vorpal> elliott, ITYM: switch to peaceful
18:08:00 <Vorpal> since you wanted the server that way
18:08:37 <elliott> Vorpal: no no no i like single player as easy
18:09:13 <elliott> it's just i hear them moving
18:09:22 <elliott> which uh, makes me think they might not... be outside
18:10:19 <elliott> IT'S RIGHT OUTSIDE MY MOTHERFUCKING DOOR
18:10:52 <elliott> Vorpal: does, the, uh, door protect me, during melee with a creeper
18:11:27 <elliott> what if i ACCIDENTALLY OPEN THE DOOOR FFSSFSFSFFF
18:11:39 <Vorpal> elliott, iron door with button and that won't happen
18:11:56 <Vorpal> if you design your house stupid...
18:12:01 <Vorpal> elliott, it is probably hiding out of sight
18:12:06 <elliott> Vorpal: dude, i had to make a house on the first night
18:12:10 <elliott> Vorpal: i did NOT have iron, that's for sure
18:12:20 <elliott> never go near the front door EVERRRR
18:12:23 <Vorpal> elliott, so how many nights passed since?
18:12:36 <elliott> Vorpal: this is the third day.
18:12:39 <elliott> i've had two nights in here.
18:12:45 <elliott> both have been spent digging mine shafts and making chests and stuff.
18:14:09 <elliott> thankfully i have enough stuffs to last me a while, lots of wood and sand
18:14:30 <elliott> i think i'm doin it rong with mining though, i'm just bashing away the walls of the shaft at random
18:14:43 <Vorpal> elliott, indeed you need a plan
18:14:51 <Vorpal> elliott, I suggest reading the forum topic on that
18:14:58 <Vorpal> elliott, to find efficient mining patterns
18:15:07 <elliott> Vorpal: i know there's certain depths blah blah blah
18:15:16 <elliott> Vorpal: but, say, right now i literally just have a section of the wall missing at the top, because there was a lot of coal there
18:15:21 <elliott> aren't i meant to have secondary shafts? :)
18:15:45 <Vorpal> elliott, no I'm talking about stuff like one corridor and then mining 1x2 corridors from it's sides. These should be separated by two blocks
18:15:52 <Vorpal> then do the same for the layer above. Except offset
18:16:25 <fizzie> ineiros: If you want to consider existing mods, http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1012&t=23340 adds /warp with specifiable warp-locations, and /item which can be used to get any out of whitelisted items, and so on; something like that might make things less annoying.
18:16:30 <elliott> i don't see why, why not just keep digging the walls :)
18:16:58 <elliott> fizzie: Say, you could make a mod to do "health decreased => set health to maximum", right?
18:17:09 <elliott> "hMod provides an extensive plugin framework and has an impressive list of plugins already"
18:17:32 <Vorpal> elliott, sure. if maximum efficiency isn't your goal
18:17:51 <elliott> Vorpal: I just want materials. :p
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18:18:13 <elliott> Vorpal: My main problem is that I'm essentially just dipping in at random points... I need x-ray vision or something. :p
18:18:27 <Vorpal> elliott, the pattern I mentioned is for targeting ore
18:18:34 <elliott> Oh what the bugger, two stairs on the same level.
18:18:38 <Vorpal> if you want cobble, then just digging away everything is best
18:18:38 <elliott> I done fail'd at something.
18:18:47 <elliott> Vorpal: I want iron and coal and stuff.
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18:19:12 <elliott> Is there a faster way to pick stairs?
18:19:13 <Vorpal> elliott, well obsidian is special. Spelunking is probably your best bet then
18:19:23 <Goose124> I came up with this for my first bf program, but it isn't always accurate
18:19:25 <Goose124> ++++[>++++++++++++<-]>>,[<+>-],[<+>-]<.
18:20:03 <Goose124> I was wondering why it did that...
18:20:28 <elliott> Goose124: Have you checked http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms?
18:20:45 <elliott> If you find a discrepancy between your algorithm and the one on the page, that's likely to be your bug.
18:23:21 <elliott> Vorpal: hmm, the danger with mining horizontally as well as downwards is that you could reach the edge of the mountain...
18:25:24 <Vorpal> elliott, oh are you up in a mountain and mining?
18:25:27 <elliott> Goose124: no, minecraft; we're not insane enough for dwarf fortress
18:25:29 <ineiros> Heh, I died immediately when I logged in.
18:25:34 <Vorpal> elliott, I guess you only found coal then?
18:25:37 <elliott> Vorpal: my hole^Whome is on the side of a cave/mountain, yes.
18:25:40 <elliott> Goose124: yeah but we're noobs :P
18:26:00 <Goose124> IT doesnt have enough features though...
18:26:00 <Vorpal> elliott, you won't find iron more than a few blocks above sea level
18:26:12 <ineiros> I think I might consider dwarf fortress. When I get a new computer.
18:26:22 <elliott> ok, now i have three levels of mine shaft :P
18:26:26 <elliott> Vorpal: that's why i'm digging downwards.
18:26:30 <elliott> i'm not actually very high up afaik.
18:26:37 <fizzie> ineiros: Yes, you need a high-end gaming GPU for Dwarf Fortress.
18:26:38 <ineiros> Okay, the server is back on.
18:26:42 <Vorpal> ineiros, did that result in loss of inventory?
18:26:50 <elliott> fizzie: You need a bloody good CPU.
18:26:56 <elliott> Vorpal: I need iron soon, though; stone tools suck so much.
18:27:06 <fizzie> ineiros: How did you set the pvp/critters flags?
18:27:06 <ineiros> Vorpal: Of course. I didn't know where I died, though. :)
18:27:22 <Vorpal> ineiros, anyway did you turn off pvp and monsters?
18:27:24 <ineiros> fizzie: Yeah, DF is a bit CPU-intensive.
18:27:31 <Vorpal> ineiros, otherwise I won't connect again I know that
18:28:20 <ineiros> fizzie: no monsters, no pvp.
18:28:36 <Vorpal> ineiros, and what about chest of diamond tools?
18:28:45 <elliott> "Turn off PvP and monsters or I'll DEPRIVE YOU OF ME!"
18:28:49 <Vorpal> ineiros, since I assume the throw away and pick up trick no longer works
18:29:09 <fizzie> All my stuff is now at ineiros' dig, I think.
18:29:13 <fizzie> I can see my compass floating there. :p
18:29:23 <Vorpal> well I was at home I think
18:29:29 <ineiros> Okay, I can share some free tools at some point.
18:29:35 <ineiros> But I'll be away for a while again.
18:29:39 <Vorpal> ineiros, or what about that mod that fizzie mentioned?
18:29:47 <fizzie> Uh... respawned, and now I can't see much of anything.
18:30:03 <fizzie> There's the sky and clouds, but no ground.
18:30:19 <fizzie> Well, /home fixed that. Weird, still.
18:30:25 <elliott> fizzie: Known bug, I think.
18:30:47 <elliott> It would be nice to have an hMod plugin that automatically replenishes all health.
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18:34:03 <Vorpal> elliott, did you say chests were broken?
18:34:18 <Vorpal> elliott, quoting bug list
18:34:45 <Vorpal> elliott, something gone on logout iirc?
18:35:01 <Goose124> How can I add double digits >.>
18:36:54 <elliott> Goose124: (The algorithm on the page will add any two numbers that can fit in BF cells.)
18:37:19 <elliott> ineiros: If I mod the server to add healthlessness back in, will you use it?
18:39:24 <Sgeo> PH isn't here :(
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18:40:19 <elliott> olsner: addEvent(HEALTH_CHANGED, (fn obj => obj.health = HEALTH_MAX)); :P
18:40:26 <Sgeo> http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0761.html
18:40:27 <elliott> (In an imaginary dialect of Java with lambdas.)
18:40:34 <Sgeo> (Note: Spoilery)
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18:41:21 <Vorpal> elliott, there is probably a bit more than that
18:41:38 <Vorpal> elliott, part might be client side (yes seriously)
18:41:50 <elliott> Vorpal: I doubt it. The other server mods do similar things...
18:41:54 <elliott> Vorpal: And there are a lot of them.
18:42:08 <elliott> I highly suspect one of them has a /heal player command, which is basically The Same Thing.
18:42:09 <Vorpal> elliott, so why not just use one of them?
18:42:18 <elliott> Vorpal: I don't think any of them has a healthless option...
18:42:31 <elliott> hMod has plugins, but really, it's simpler to just mod the server than to install a mod *and* write a plugin.
18:42:35 <elliott> Especially if all you want is the one thing.
18:42:56 <Vorpal> elliott, I want infinite tools
18:43:04 <Vorpal> elliott, or a way to get replacements
18:43:10 <elliott> Vorpal: That is the tool's health.
18:43:20 <elliott> Vorpal: Apparently it's the same bug as no health.
18:43:21 <Vorpal> elliott, but what about monster health?
18:43:32 <elliott> addEvent(HEALTH_CHANGED, (fn obj => obj.health = HEALTH_MAX));
18:43:36 <Vorpal> elliott, or animal health
18:43:52 <Vorpal> elliott, if the fire doesn't work on them ineiros won't accept it
18:44:07 <fizzie> The throw-away-a-tool + pick-it-up still reset my pickaxe.
18:44:07 <Sgeo> I don't get "tone" though
18:44:08 <elliott> Vorpal: The fire seems to be not health-based.
18:44:17 <elliott> They die immediately after some time; I think it destroys them or something.
18:44:24 <elliott> Vorpal: Anyway, whatever, I'm just asking ineiros if he'll use it if I do it.
18:44:28 <elliott> It shouldn't be too difficult.
18:44:52 <elliott> And I can add fancy things, like /digwhereimstandingrightdowntolevel0 for admins. :p
18:44:55 <elliott> (Cough cough stairs cough.)
18:45:36 <Vorpal> elliott, you will probably need to maintain it, updates to fix the invisibility bug and so on are probably likely
18:45:46 <elliott> Vorpal: Oh noes, I have to maintain a diff :P
18:46:22 <Vorpal> elliott, against a code base with obfuscation. And where the obfuscation scheme change regularly
18:46:51 <elliott> Vorpal: Other mod authors manage, and theirs have 10x the features or more.
18:47:01 <Sgeo> Please gouge my eyes out
18:47:07 <Sgeo> http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0761.html
18:47:14 <Sgeo> erm, I mean http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Learning-Something-New.aspx
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18:50:04 <elliott> Vorpal: Are you connected?
18:54:03 <fizzie> Or -- a crazy idea here -- you could just wait for the official server mod API that's been promised a couple of times already.
18:54:24 <elliott> fizzie: And be without a usable skyway in the meantime?
18:54:32 <fizzie> The skyway is perfectly usable.
18:54:50 <fizzie> That just means the skyway is for real men.
18:55:09 <elliott> fizzie: Anyway, it's not like modding it would be *omg insanely difficult*.
18:55:32 <elliott> fizzie: I could always code to a stable API by using hMod's plugin system, and assuming hMod will be updated for the new servers for N time to come.
18:55:34 <fizzie> Well, if you *want*, sure.
18:55:49 <elliott> That would also be less obfuscatoarotijeortjeiortoejirt, too.
18:56:27 <fizzie> Well, hMod's version numbers are already at 124 or so, so it seems to be actively maintained. (And it's against this latest server version already.)
18:56:51 <elliott> fizzie: Sounds like a Plan, then. But that will only work if its API lets me hook into the code that gets called for a health decrease.
18:59:03 <fizzie> There is at least a Player.setHealth method in its javadocs. Though with the comment "This doesn't work and only screws things up."
19:01:37 <Goose124> since it's an esoteric language
19:01:54 <Goose124> should I use complex code instead?
19:02:12 <elliott> Goose124: I suppose if you really want to. :p
19:02:22 <elliott> fizzie: I'm more likely to want to go into the "decreaseHealthYo()" code and just wipe it out.
19:07:02 <perdito|afk> yes.. where's the joy in life if one cannot die
19:07:15 -!- perdito|afk has changed nick to perdito.
19:08:30 <Goose124> Which is better: >++++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<--- or ++[>>++++++[<++++++++>-]<<-]>+
19:08:51 <Goose124> what's the closest power of 3 to 96....
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19:10:22 <perdito> Goose124: both suck pretty well
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19:10:55 <elliott> Goose124: 3^4, if you were wondering.
19:11:41 <Goose124> perdito, does that mean you can give me a better one? :D
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19:22:45 <elliott> fizzie: http://i.imgur.com/Ikh7a.png
19:23:05 <fizzie> That does look pretty unnatural.
19:27:39 <Goose124> gonna make a fibonacci sequence generator then
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19:34:38 <Vorpal> ineiros, full list: http://sprunge.us/dBVN
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19:51:06 <Ilari> Heh... Make BF program that prints fibbonacci sequence, with numbers separated by spaces.
19:52:28 <Ilari> The kind that does not halt nor overflow...
19:53:16 <Ilari> BF has unbounded memory.
19:53:36 <oklopol> then.. how can you overflow?
19:55:05 <Ilari> The idea is to print larger and larger numbers...
19:55:33 <Sgeo> The Futurama Holiday Spectacular was very meh
19:56:22 <Ilari> The point is not to overflow if 2^8, 2^16, 2^24, 2^32, or so is reached...
19:56:43 <Ilari> Heh... What is period of fibbonacci sequence mod N?
19:57:49 <oklopol> dunno, but if any number is 0 mod N then the period becomes 1 right?
19:58:07 <oklopol> could that be true, sounds like something i would've known
19:58:59 <Ilari> if N = 2, period seems to be 3 (1, 1, 0).
19:59:50 <oklopol> in fact if you reach 0 after k (mod n), then you'll get the fibonacci sequence times k after that
19:59:51 <Ilari> For N = 3, 1, 1, 2, 0, 2, 2, 1, 0.... (8).
20:02:24 <Ilari> Period of 1 would imply zero values. And let final two non-zero values be a and b. Now a + b = 0 (mod N) and b + 0 = 0 (mod N). But this impiles b = 0, which is impossible.
20:03:15 <Ilari> Therefore, period is at least 2 and at most N^2 - 1.
20:03:49 <oklopol> but i'm sure it's something pretty
20:05:50 <Ilari> N = 4: 1, 1, 2, 3, 1, 0 (6). N = 5 gives 1, 1, 2, 3, 0, 3, 3, 1, 4, 0, 4, 4, 3, 2, 0, 2, 2, 4, 1, 0... (20)...
20:07:42 <Ilari> Is there such sequence that doesn't have '1, 0' in it?
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20:09:07 <elliott> <Ilari> Therefore, period is at least 2 and at most N^2 - 1.
20:09:12 <elliott> It's probably something to do with phi. :p
20:13:24 <Ilari> 3, 8, 6, 20, 24, 16, 12, 24, 60, 10, 24, 28, 48, 40... Let's search OEIS...
20:13:59 <Ilari> A001175 Pisano periods (or Pisano numbers): period of Fibonacci numbers mod n
20:14:34 <oklopol> that is a very beautiful sequence!
20:14:52 <oklopol> in fact it's my favorite sequence ever
20:15:32 <Ilari> 1, 3, 8, 6, 20, 24, 16, 12, 24, 60, 10, 24, 28, 48, 40, 24, 36, 24, 18, 60, 16, 30, 48, 24, 100, 84, 72, 48, 14, 120, 30, 48, 40, 36, 80, 24, 76, 18, 56, 60, 40, 48, 88, 30, 120, 48, 32, 24, 112, 300, 72, 84, 108, 72, 20, 48, 72, 42, 58, 120, 60, 30, 48, 96, 140, 120, 136 ...
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20:17:23 <elliott> someone hook wolfram alpha up to oeis
20:17:35 <elliott> period of (fibonacci mod N)
20:19:09 <Ilari> Haha... If N is 1999, the the period is 666... ):-)
20:32:36 <oklopol> that's a really cool sequence
20:33:00 <elliott> oklopol: but what about the periods of the pisano sequence mod n
20:33:06 <elliott> we have a whole infinite TOWER of lovly sequences here
20:33:09 <oklopol> how about the what are they called, the tails before the period?
20:33:17 <elliott> now just define inverse mod, and we can have it extend downwards too, below fibonacci
20:34:37 <oklopol> so how about different starting points than 1, 1
20:34:48 <elliott> oklopol's gotta hate me 'cuz i'm writing a hill climbing program and calling it genetic programming
20:34:55 <oklopol> Ilari: wanna try if the sequences are as beautiful, and whether they're similar to pisano
20:35:01 <elliott> in my defence, i plan to add breeding of brainfuck programs as soon as i figure out how to make that make any sense at all
20:35:15 <elliott> oklopol: omg we have sequences indexed by Z^2 * N how awesome is that
20:35:25 <oklopol> hill climbing is not genetic programming!!
20:35:28 <elliott> oklopol: (i.e. fibonacci, pisano, metapisano, ... and the two starting values)
20:35:35 <elliott> oklopol: <elliott> in my defence, i plan to add breeding of brainfuck programs as soon as i figure out how to make that make any sense at all
20:35:44 <elliott> oklopol: it's hill climbing of PROGRAMS btw
20:36:22 <oklopol> that's the most sensible definition
20:36:31 <elliott> oklopol: yes, well, gimme an algorithm to breed two arbitrary bf programs :P
20:37:12 <elliott> why am i doing this in haskell xD
20:37:14 <oklopol> i don't have one. i didn't say genetic programming works well on bf programs.
20:37:19 <elliott> oklopol: WELL MAKE IT WORK
20:37:43 <oklopol> the problem is programs are very discontinuous in how close they are to correct
20:38:08 <oklopol> which i'm sure was news to everyone here, glad i said that.
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20:39:10 <oklopol> anyway genetic programming is exactly how you might fix that, you combine two already working components; of course you will have to somehow be able to give points to programs that... do something, even though that something has nothing to do with the actual problem being solved
20:39:40 <oklopol> but my gut's intuition says a smart guy could totally gene up a search
20:40:30 <elliott> unfortunately i'm not a smart guy
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20:45:44 <Phantom_Hoover> [[The esolang community is active sporadically, and topics of discussion range from debate as to whether a language is Turing-complete to how one would go about representing abstract and hard to visualise mathematical concepts in a programming environment.]] — Wikipedia, on us.
20:46:12 <Phantom_Hoover> I have a deep, irresistible temptation to append "and Minecraft" to that list.
20:46:43 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, in the recent past, you would have been adding "and Robozzle"
20:47:39 <fizzie> There was a bit of a Robozzle-mania.
20:47:45 <fizzie> PH; The server's been updated.
20:47:48 <Sgeo> http://robozzle.com/
20:47:51 <fizzie> PH; You might insta-die when you connect.
20:48:03 <fizzie> PH; Most of us did, except Vorpal with his fancy metal armour.
20:48:09 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, so the days of hurling ourselves from the top to the bottom of the map are over?
20:48:27 <fizzie> PH; At least in my case, I got my inventory spewed out, and when I walked back to get it, all the items had turned invisible.
20:49:05 <fizzie> Later reconnectings had no problems.
20:49:11 <oklopol> why would Vorpal have an armor
20:49:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Also, if you die, you go to "limbo" and have to /home. From then on, you are invisible until reconnect.
20:49:22 <fizzie> oklopol: Better safe than sorry!
20:49:26 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Also, the door to the temple doesn't work most of the time.
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20:49:28 <Vorpal> fizzie, how do you make bread now again?
20:49:31 <oklopol> i thought you didn't have health
20:49:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Also, there's blocks of diamond in the chest; take 3 or 4 at the absolute max.
20:49:33 <Vorpal> fizzie, smelting wheat?
20:49:45 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Also, the lava pits are now Unfun(TM).
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20:50:23 <fizzie> Vorpal: Craft a horizontal row of three wheat.
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20:50:34 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Various things; lava, falling... why?
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20:51:13 <fizzie> PH: Interestingly, the tool-decay bug/feature didn't get fixed, you can still refresh your tools with the drop-pickup.
20:51:50 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: When the next update comes out -- since this one is *insanely* buggy, everyone agrees -- I'm going to see about making a server mod that automatically replenishes all health.
20:51:55 <Sgeo> PH, did you see my link?
20:51:56 <elliott> And then we can have the Good Old Days back once again! Mwahahaha!
20:52:06 <elliott> (It will also ensure that tools stay charged, without having to throw them away and all that silliness.)
20:53:22 <oklopol> tools should break, you should just be able to program bots that bring you new ones
20:53:41 <Vorpal> fizzie, other bug: animals no longer makes those "distressed" noises when you hit them
20:53:55 <fizzie> Maybe he just changed all the animals to masochists.
20:54:07 <oklopol> Vorpal gets no satisfaction this way
20:54:10 <fizzie> (I've never played with sound, so I wouldn't notice.)
20:55:30 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's mine. Feel free to contribute to the confusion.
20:55:39 <fizzie> Yes, he wanted to make the sheep/pig hybrids... uh, bleat-squeal.
20:55:40 <elliott> Try closing and opening them for confusion.
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21:11:39 <Sgeo> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/kodu/
21:11:52 <Sgeo> I know it's for kids but I can't help wanting to make a BF interpreter
21:17:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Vorpal: This is your Minecraft. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EplEzRvZPBA This is your Minecraft on drugs.
21:17:21 <elliott> So glad Notch didn't go with that after all :P
21:17:39 <elliott> Dear god I feel woozy just wtaching it.
21:17:46 <elliott> WHAT HAVE YOU GOT AGAINST PHYSICS
21:19:43 <Sgeo> What's so terrible about it?
21:20:04 <Vorpal> elliott, will check soon
21:20:17 <Sgeo> What's so non-Euclidean about this?
21:21:17 <Sgeo> I'm going to go install Kodu
21:23:14 <Sgeo> Dear Microsoft download site: Why do you still have an option showing 56k users how long it will take to download?
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21:27:53 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, fizzie (I think) made this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKmkkIBjHlI&feature=related
21:28:18 <Sgeo> More interestingly, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDWmujQ3W_I&NR=1
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21:29:25 <Sgeo> It's someone in here
21:31:31 <elliott> The only Pole in here is asiekierka and he's too stupid to make either of those. :P
21:32:14 <elliott> Or someone affiliated with his group, lol.
21:32:19 <olsner> I think nooga is a pole too?
21:32:50 <elliott> olsner: yes, but I correlated "Team ASCII" and asiekierka.
21:32:59 <elliott> my probability of it being that specific Team ASCII is 0.99 or so.
21:33:03 <elliott> "It was first announced by asiekierka before the code was released to the public, bragging in #minecraft that he had the code, which, alongside with other behaviour, resulted in a ban." --Minepedia
21:33:18 <elliott> The code in question was written by GreaseMonkey. :p
21:34:56 <olsner> hmm, 3000 unread mails left, I don't think I'll get all of them gone through tonight
21:37:19 <elliott> Okay, my internets have *definitely* turned into an echo chamber, just made the final connection that has interconnected... hmm... yes, I am pretty sure every single social group I am in or know of on the Internet has now been completely connected with very few hops from any group to another.
21:38:05 <elliott> Especially as "every social group I know of" (discounting tiny ones or ones I only "know" of in the sense of knowing about them for one second and immediately forgetting) is a *lot*.
21:38:50 <olsner> doesn't that happen to everyone though? degrees of bacon and all that
21:39:27 <elliott> olsner: yes, but we're talking about things I can see absolutely no connection to each other with, via any path, being connected by *one* hop.
21:40:08 <olsner> hmm, but don't you connect all these groups too? by one hop?
21:40:08 <elliott> And people I know from one social group spontaneously entering another, very different one, where I'm still active in the latter but not active any more in the former, despite this being something I would definitely have never predicted.
21:40:28 <elliott> olsner: well, not necessarily; I don't exactly link them all the time
21:40:38 <elliott> I happen to be in them, sure, but I don't really ever cross the boundaries, ever.
21:41:25 <elliott> I think that the internet that obeys the inter- part is much, much smaller than I thought it was.
21:42:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: No thanks. I prefer to keep my affairs separate.
21:43:16 <elliott> All my SALACIOUS, ILLICIT affairs.
21:43:21 <Phantom_Hoover> But you've just demonstrated the fundamental oneness of your affairs.
21:43:44 <ais523> what the hell's been going on at the wiki? a set of spambots turning up and vandalising every page there?
21:44:35 <ais523> elliott: you see, the world population is approximately 1000, anything that indicates otherwise is a conspiracy
21:44:45 <ais523> this explains why you run into the same people so often, it's just birthday paradox
21:45:05 <Gregor> http://www.abebooks.com/products/isbn/9780814712368 <-- I'm holding an alternate-cover-art contest for this book. Go draw :P
21:45:22 <elliott> ais523: I would find that *so* much easier to believe if... actually
21:45:33 <Sgeo> I'm just watching a video tutorial of this thing, and I'm already hating it
21:46:10 <Gregor> I can only ass-ume that Sgeo is responding to my link.
21:46:19 <Sgeo> Gregor, I'm not
21:46:39 <elliott> Gregor: assumptions make an ass out of you and mption, though.
21:47:27 <Sgeo> But you turned mption into an ass, so he should screw himself/
21:47:38 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-FjskAHgN0&feature=player_embedded
21:47:40 <elliott> Sgeo: that was ... just never talk ever :|
21:50:15 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm invisible, immortal, and my interactions with the outside world are severely limited.
21:51:55 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: In Limbo, eh? :P
21:52:07 <elliott> Try /home and you'll merely be invisible.
21:52:42 <Sgeo> What would happen if you logged out and back in?
21:53:04 <Sgeo> You'd lose the interestingness maybe, I guess, so don;t
21:53:38 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, were you turned into a neutrino?
21:54:14 <Gregor> ARE YOU IN QUANTUM FLUX
21:54:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, I have logged out and logged in. I have reconnected. I have restarted Minecraft.
22:00:36 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, don't :P
22:03:55 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover's nick becomes appropriate
22:05:55 <perdito> well guys..thx for takin me into this minecraft thing.. im really impressed by the work of these 'gang of four'.. this project has everthing.. absolutley innovative and genious gamedesign.. eye-openening technology.. beutiful 8bit loving art, music and last-but-not-least.. spirit
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22:06:32 <elliott> perdito: haha, good to know a channel about esoteric programming languages can serve a purpose by being wildly offtopic
22:06:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Not that I know of?
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22:09:43 <perdito> i have to compare its genious to the first days of id-software.. back in those days..names like carmack and romero were heroes in my eyes
22:11:58 <perdito> btw.. guess what good ol'carmack does today?
22:12:41 <perdito> he's developing spacecraft vehicles :D
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22:27:05 <Phantom_Hoover> <Dagmar> It'll probably get nuked as soon as notch figures out what's causing it]]
22:27:48 <perdito> next, i need to get a closer look at this 'Lightweight Java Game Library' (LWJGL).. seems to be powerful stuff.. anyone having some experience in using it? ..i never used java, but it seems i need to question that in future :)
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22:29:00 <elliott> perdito: i would avoid java like the plague :)
22:29:46 <perdito> well i did until now (once again please excuse, and feel free to correct my very poor english, but i see no better way to improve it than to use it :P)
22:33:05 <olsner> Java could be used as a vehicle for a proper language though, say encode brainfuck in the least-significant bits of all identifiers
22:38:03 <perdito> most of the time i use c#, and as far as i know there is no big difference between java and c#.. had to time to find out sofar
22:38:10 <elliott> so does anyone know a decent Free(TM) java decompiler, they all look terrible
22:38:13 <elliott> perdito: java has no anonymous functions
22:38:40 <perdito> and most of them.. its free ;)
22:39:00 <Sgeo> What elliott said.
22:39:01 <olsner> the jdk comes with a dis"assemble"r that prints the java bytecodes, but it doesn't make java code of it
22:39:30 <elliott> olsner: yeah i kinda want java code, however shitty, to mod the minecraft server
22:39:35 <perdito> we do not need to discuss the differences now
22:39:37 <elliott> dear god jdec's ui is beyond hideous
22:39:48 <elliott> "Whats New Click Me", i swear to god this blinks colour
22:39:52 <perdito> im sure you know them all ;)
22:39:58 <Sgeo> elliott, I used a java decompiler once
22:40:12 <Sgeo> Don't remember how good or bad it was though, and certainly don't remember the name
22:40:29 <olsner> elliott: just make your own language based on java bytecode, probably better than writing your mods in java :D
22:40:56 <fizzie> There's one called "jad" or some-such.
22:41:16 <fizzie> Or, given how generic that name is, probably more than one.
22:41:38 <Sgeo> LiveGMS is working again!
22:42:18 * Sgeo acts as though he's going to spoil PH but doesn't actually do it.
22:42:20 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I've read it but no further.
22:42:21 <perdito> lets call it offtopic, but i'm surprised by the speed of this app running in my browser.. its based on openGL as far as i know
22:42:22 <elliott> fizzie: Jad is proprietary.
22:42:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, I added stuff to my castle
22:42:28 <elliott> fizzie: Also abandoned it seems.
22:42:39 <elliott> perdito: Oh, are you on Classic?
22:42:51 <elliott> perdito: I suggest buying Alpha; it's much nicer (and you can run it outside of a browser, too.)
22:43:31 <perdito> so anyone worked with this lwjg lib mentioned?
22:43:36 <fizzie> elliott: Seems pre-5 indeed. There was also another I used pretty recently, but can't recall the name.
22:44:22 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: A whole 9 European monies.
22:44:26 <fizzie> Vorpal: Shut down my computer already, so not going to come see any castle improvements.
22:44:28 <elliott> And that's even more imperial moneys!
22:44:34 <elliott> fizzie is talking from the grave.
22:44:43 <perdito> my self produced 3D engines sucked so far *g
22:44:44 <elliott> This jdec thing sure is slow.
22:44:50 <elliott> perdito: well 3D isn't easy :)
22:44:56 <elliott> It is not reassuring when it says it's extracting glass by.x.
22:45:01 <perdito> i had polygons with 3-4fps
22:45:13 <perdito> and i was very proud of it
22:45:21 * elliott looks at the decompiled files
22:45:25 <perdito> but i guess openGL is good stuff
22:45:25 <fizzie> I think we did some java/opengl with either lwjgl or jogl, but not sure which one.
22:45:37 <elliott> double35=(abd5.a- this.a);
22:45:37 <elliott> double36=(abd5.b- this.b);
22:45:37 <elliott> double37=(abd5.c- this.c);
22:45:37 <elliott> return (((double35*double35))+((double36*double36)))+((double37*double37));
22:45:45 <elliott> if((double48*double48)<1.0000000116860974E-7)
22:45:50 <Vorpal> fizzie, minecraft uses lwjgl iirc
22:46:32 <Vorpal> elliott, what is that doube35 thingy?
22:46:42 <elliott> Vorpal: The 35th double used in the class, one presumes.
22:46:45 <Vorpal> elliott, wait, are you trying to patch health? well health is no issue
22:46:54 <elliott> Vorpal: Health is an issue to me.
22:47:02 <Vorpal> elliott, walk more carefully
22:47:06 <elliott> Vorpal: Down the staircase?
22:47:07 <Vorpal> elliott, to avoid falling off
22:47:15 <Vorpal> elliott, put 2 water at the bottom
22:47:15 <elliott> Good luck walking more carefully from level 128 to near level 0.
22:47:25 <perdito> it was just the wire.. not even filled :)
22:47:26 <elliott> Issue *not* solved, and tools now run out.
22:47:31 <elliott> It is distinctly inferior.
22:47:39 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Well, no, but they will.
22:47:41 <Vorpal> elliott, tools don't run out
22:47:47 <Vorpal> elliott, at some point yes
22:47:50 <Vorpal> elliott, and then it will matter
22:47:51 <perdito> the most primitive matrix-vector-stuff
22:48:06 <perdito> not even thinking of textures
22:55:02 <Vorpal> fizzie, made my storage room even more weird
22:55:11 <fizzie> What I used might have been this Dava thing. There's a recent-ish survey at http://jameshamilton.eu/sites/default/files/JavaBytecodeDecompilerSurveyExtended.pdf and page 13 has a table of decompilers.
22:57:45 <perdito> in best case the game itself has nothing to do with its view.. so viewing the states of the game is done by some sophisticated compiled and hardware-supporting software
23:00:14 <fizzie> elliott: I guess you know about the mc-specific deobfuscation thing? http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Minecraft_Coder_Pack (Untried.)
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23:09:00 <perdito> <Phantom_Hoover>perdito, make a non-Euclidean one. <-- thx for that hint
23:09:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Disclaimer: even I don't know how one would write a non-Euclidean 3D engine.
23:10:02 <perdito> just reading an interesting article on that
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23:12:13 <perdito> thanks to you, i know that there sth called "non-Euclidean" exists *g
23:13:50 <Phantom_Hoover> I wanted to write a raytracer for it, but I fell at the first hurdle of "working out the path of a ray in non-Euclidean space".
23:14:22 <Phantom_Hoover> In Euclidean space it's a trivial matter of vectors, but it gets more complicated otherwise, with geodesics and stuff.
23:14:51 <Phantom_Hoover> It's this kind of thing that makes general relativity *way* more complex to model than special.
23:15:07 <perdito> yes.. my math-leaks will never let me go
23:17:05 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodesic_%28general_relativity%29 — useful to those with PhDs.
23:17:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Look at the Greek letters there; that's proper mathematics.
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23:28:47 <gin_soaked_girl> its so quiet you could hear a pin drop from 1000 miles away.
23:30:06 -!- gin_soaked_girl has changed nick to Chelsea_Dagger.
23:33:13 -!- Chelsea_Dagger has changed nick to enantiomeric.
23:33:26 -!- enantiomeric has left (?).
23:49:13 <elliott> fizzie: Looks like that deobfuscation pack hasn't been updated yet.
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23:59:44 <elliott> fizzie: lol, it's a collection of windows bat files