< 1288569609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION digs up stuff from his past
< 1288569610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/S6pDQ.png
< 1288569615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently this is OfficeSuite
< 1288569622 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo digs up stuff from his past
< 1288569624 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you do that all day?
< 1288569641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You an probably use the first, third, fifth and so on megabytes, though.
< 1288569647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/an/can/
< 1288569679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point, I will feel nostalgic about #esoteric
< 1288569682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe zeroth, second and fourth; depending on how you number those.
< 1288569683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After #esoteric dies
< 1288569715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or IRC channels may be longer lived than other communities
< 1288569719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems likely
< 1288569723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still
< 1288569729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will Freenode really be around forever?
< 1288569753 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or you can use all of them as long as you account for the mirroring :)
< 1288569776 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit
< 1288569786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes, well, the addresses, sure; but not the physical megabytes.
< 1288569894 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On most newer computers starting with the IBM PS/2, the chipset has a FAST A20 option that can quickly enable the A20 line. To enable A20 this way, there is no need for delay loops or polling, just 3 simple instructions."
< 1288569899 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT SOUNDS NICE NO I/O OK THX
< 1288569906 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, this is not supported everywhere and there is no reliable way to tell if it will have some effect or not on a given system. Even worse, on some systems, it may actually do something else like blanking the screen, so it should be used only after the BIOS has reported that FAST A20 is available. Code for systems lacking FAST A20 support is also needed, so relying only on this method is discouraged."
< 1288569909 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
< 1288569913 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Another way is to use the BIOS."
< 1288569915 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's better thank you
< 1288569943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me that you're researching history
< 1288569954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I have no idea what you're trying to do
< 1288569977 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a bootloader
< 1288570005 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a bootloader *is* researching history
< 1288570040 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually something like an accelerated trip through all revisions of the x86 isa and bios api:s
< 1288570102 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's only if you want to support more than just your own machine
< 1288570119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume
< 1288570178 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the steps you need to do on any machine
< 1288570222 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmp word [magic], word [MIRROR_MAGIC]
< 1288570226 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work, what a surprise!
< 1288570243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why "all revisions"?
< 1288570264 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because it starts off in 16-bit real mode
< 1288570275 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you use the bios to get shit done
< 1288570284 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you do the, cough, fun dance to get into protected mode
< 1288570284 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never learned x86 stuff
< 1288570287 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you're on 64-bit
< 1288570292 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do the fun dance to get into long mode from there
< 1288570294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or x64 stuff
< 1288570298 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*x86-64
< 1288570310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything sinful about abbreviating it to x64?
< 1288570313 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288570315 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll stab you
< 1288570318 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott
< 1288570321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1288570321 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288570324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With your _?
< 1288570342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288570347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://wiki.osdev.org/A20_Line#Testing_the_A20_line dear god this is long and ugly
< 1288570349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have that kind of space
< 1288570352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta OPTIMISE
< 1288570382 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OPTOMISE
< 1288570410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: maybe i'll just deal with the duplicated megabytes :D
< 1288570413 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288570439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do the A20 dance outside your bootloader.
< 1288570450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: after I get into protected mode???
< 1288570458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming reasonable-sized kernel, anyway.
< 1288570458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds... fun
< 1288570483 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also VICE does not build out of the box on NetBSD because of a *syntax error*.
< 1288570491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't see why not; except that then you don't really have the BIOS helping you.
< 1288570526 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of the A20 methods listed there (except for anything calling into bios) should work from protected mode afaict
< 1288570597 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (d = hid_start_parse(report, 1 << hid_input, id) {
< 1288570597 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : }
< 1288570600 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS NOT C, PEOPLE
< 1288570610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i, uh, wow.
< 1288570634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm enabling the A20 line with the BIOS.
< 1288570637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this low-level talk reminds me of this nice paper floating around on how to do really fast "software" routing tables with a clever (ab)use of the cache systems: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.35.45&rep=rep1&type=pdf
< 1288570641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the alternative is talking to the keyboard and I have am oral objection to that.
< 1288570648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a moral
< 1288570660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*An oral.
< 1288570770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x0F is "pure white on black", yeah?
< 1288570775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in vgatextspeak
< 1288570783 0 :Jack!539596cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.149.150.203 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288570783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it appears here
< 1288570793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have a snazzy error message:
< 1288570798 0 :Jack!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1288570799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot A20?
< 1288570801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Jack
< 1288570809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jack: this channel is about esoteric programming languages
< 1288570809 0 :Jack!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest20118
< 1288570816 0 :Guest20118!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jackoz
< 1288570827 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it an autoreply?
< 1288570852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1288570857 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :)
< 1288570866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we get tons of people here thinking it's about that *other* type of esoterica.
< 1288570871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1288570877 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, btw I know about that mate
< 1288570891 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm developing an esoteric language
< 1288570893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/WjGPH.png
< 1288570898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst. UI. Ever
< 1288570903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: cool
< 1288570905 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I joined this channel, shortly I'll need some feedback :D
< 1288570916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose I want to move stuf from 200N 200E to 323S 370E
< 1288570922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepare the "your language sucks" cannons, men!
< 1288570930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put the old location in "Rotate Old Prop Around"
< 1288570939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put the new location in "Offset Values"
< 1288570941 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1288570955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for Height offset, which is the difference in heights
< 1288570958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I was joking
< 1288570978 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the only real problem is that it is stack based, but I feel it is not enough
< 1288570988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: we're actually nice! on occasion.
< 1288570989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Int 15/AX=2402h - SYSTEM - later PS/2s - GET A20 GATE STATUS
< 1288570994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: See, I can just use the BIOS for everything!
< 1288571001 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but having a normal "variable declaration" language seemed too overkill
< 1288571008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: stack is nice!
< 1288571014 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to find something in the middle, so maybe I can get some inspiration here
< 1288571019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not enough" is always almost a bad impulse, keeping things simple and pure is what leads to a gem of a language
< 1288571023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo
< 1288571024 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having an affair with a stack based language
< 1288571026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm interested, so go on
< 1288571034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: Sgeo is our friendly channel bot
< 1288571068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :channel bot write in Factor for great justice
< 1288571092 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^too coherent for a fungot-like bot
< 1288571106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, fungot doesn't detect on fungot-
< 1288571107 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: using the odd syntax for one
< 1288571120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fungot-
< 1288571121 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: toi ei oo fnord ja kanava fnord? l)
< 1288571129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: a bot with a tendency to call the other bots.
< 1288571132 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm trying to keep it fully functional with powerful but obscure operators, but this implies having to manipulate the stack a lot
< 1288571140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "later PS/2s" -- surely you're not going to limit yourself on such!
< 1288571144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack manipulation is fun, but ok :)
< 1288571147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh yes I am.
< 1288571151 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to clarify, I'm not actually a bot
< 1288571154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *to such
< 1288571160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe a nostalgia-bot
< 1288571164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: he's also wired to say he's not a bot whenever his botness is mentioned :)
< 1288571179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They're technically "optional", but the amount that I care is zero. :P
< 1288571186 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do some goole searches for me!
< 1288571190 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*google
< 1288571212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way I'm actually failing a Turing-test, am I?
< 1288571236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we have learned here: Sgeo truly is indistinguishable from a simple computer program.
< 1288571250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, y'know, [some less cynical conclusion about the way people react to other people when they have assumptions].
< 1288571262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The fungot-not-replying thing was probably that one occasional bug it has that I haven't managed to catch.
< 1288571262 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i don't need that much range anyway.
< 1288571265 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just to give you an idea http://jacoposantoni.com/impossible/operators (but many operators aren't documented there yet)
< 1288571277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing. fungot-like. testing
< 1288571277 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, i'm just trying to understand syntax-case. so i'll be here tomorrow for a response on c.l.s
< 1288571289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And apparently 'e doesn't think it's worth fixing anyway.)
< 1288571302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cmp al, 1
< 1288571302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : je protect
< 1288571302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta be a simpler way of writing that
< 1288571303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1288571319 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comp.lang.???
< 1288571320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme?
< 1288571323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smalltalk?
< 1288571326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme.
< 1288571341 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax-case is a tricky Sceme macro thing.
< 1288571343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: just so you know, trash is usually called "drop"
< 1288571350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: and dupe dup
< 1288571364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: this is a good language
< 1288571374 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thanks, I'll take it into account :)
< 1288571381 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's why I joined here
< 1288571384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: you should see some of the first esolangs people come up with :)
< 1288571390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can be truly awful
< 1288571438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's impolite to make someone laugh at food-time
< 1288571441 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was thinking about having many stacks with a default behaviour that is usually good without any additional thought from the developer but I wasn't unable to come up with anything yet
< 1288571443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could be dead thanks to you
< 1288571461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: surely you're a bot now
< 1288571470 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo !search pr0n
< 1288571480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot sector is 168 bytes, that's over a *fifth* of the maximum!
< 1288571488 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this damn bot, it needs some fixes
< 1288571499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, it's basically a third.
< 1288571517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said I have to give the results back to you? *ponders* I don't think you want the results
< 1288571540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1288571561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You! Tell me why my segments go all strange after going into protected mode.
< 1288571628 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's building openssh
< 1288571632 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1288571634 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why!
< 1288571669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH!
< 1288571681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because video memory is 0xB8000 on the other side of the divide, not 0xB800.
< 1288571683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh.
< 1288571716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it works in qemu but not bochs -- which is *never* a good sign.
< 1288571835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how does that happen?
< 1288571928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because bochs is anal and slow and qemu is lax and fast.
< 1288571965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00134663903e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0x0d)
< 1288571965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00134663903e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0x08)
< 1288571977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00134663903e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0x08)
< 1288571979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops
< 1288571985 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1288571988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lol something is up.
< 1288572013 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something's causing an interrupt, and you probably haven't set up an interrupt descriptor yet
< 1288572029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ah.
< 1288572032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bochs is a bitch, then
< 1288572070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wrong!
< 1288572073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well
< 1288572079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set up idtr using yours (dw 0 dd 0)
< 1288572086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is it triggering despite that or something?
< 1288572088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have to set up more?
< 1288572090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so WOOOOOO.
< 1288572117 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to set up more as long as you have interrupts disabled and don't do anything wrong :)
< 1288572130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: clearly I do, because it happens anyway :)
< 1288572135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lidt [idtr]
< 1288572140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :align 4
< 1288572141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idtr: dw 0
< 1288572141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dd 0
< 1288572148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that I have a record of my Opera usage
< 1288572155 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you just have to stop doing something wrong that causes the interrupts
< 1288572162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I'm ever tempted to try Opera again, say in a few years...
< 1288572183 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you disable interrupts?
< 1288572197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: probably not!
< 1288572214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i should figure out how!
< 1288572234 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouuld learn how this stuff works
< 1288572234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wait yes i did
< 1288572236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLI, isn't it?
< 1288572239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cli
< 1288572239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lidt [idtr]
< 1288572240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks like a pretty small IDT.
< 1288572242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lgdt [gdtr]
< 1288572244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if I want to build a computer at some point
< 1288572245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: blame olsner
< 1288572262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: all of this is utterly irrelevant to the trivial "stick a few components together in a case".
< 1288572272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is like lego.
< 1288572272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant in virtual worlds
< 1288572286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how to stick components in the real world together
< 1288572287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: !google typical
< 1288572302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first few (19) entries of the idt can be invoked by processor-generated exceptions.
< 1288572305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..?
< 1288572312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1288572325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not giving me advice, you're saying that I'm being typical me
< 1288572333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector=0x0d there is a general protection fault.
< 1288572335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are typically typical you
< 1288572337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what?
< 1288572343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well that's not good.
< 1288572347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And vector=0x08 is a double fault.
< 1288572351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other_side:
< 1288572352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov word [0xB8000+ebx+2], 0x0F21
< 1288572352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x: hlt
< 1288572352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jmp x
< 1288572357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so protection-faulty about that?
< 1288572437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you reloaded your ds after the jump to protected mode? If ds was zero before, I would assume it still has that 64k limit. But really, I haven't done this before: ask oelsner.
< 1288572448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ølsner
< 1288572461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerrrrsleer.
< 1288572465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But fizzie is right!
< 1288572470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push DATA_SEGMENT pop ds works just fine.
< 1288572526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ommina sleep now, though; good luck with protecting your modes.
< 1288572549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, look!
< 1288572554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: catseye: olsner: BOOTLOADER COMPLETE
< 1288572555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sort of)
< 1288572559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's 200 bytes exactly.
< 1288572559 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sweet
< 1288572572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That includes the "jmp KERNEL_SEGMENT:0" at the very end that I'm not sure will work entirely properly here.
< 1288572581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I should probably reset all the registers like you do.
< 1288572623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, 200 bytes to read the kernel from a floppy disk, giving diagnostics along the way, enable the A20 line (giving "boot? A20" if it doesn't work), jump into protected mode and jump to my kernel.
< 1288572624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad.
< 1288572631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1288572632 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, having all of them point to a proper 32-bit data segment is useful
< 1288572797 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's frightening
< 1288573109 0 :FireFly|n900!~n900@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288573115 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1288573158 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Golf a BF infinite loop code fragment that can be inserted in any valid brainfuck program
< 1288573173 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would +[]+[] be the shortest possible?
< 1288573261 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'[]+[]'?
< 1288573285 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1288573296 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that works
< 1288573354 0 :FIQ!~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288573463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he can find his Haskell BF interpreter
< 1288573533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly|n900: Define the Brainfuck.
< 1288573671 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case you should be able to wrote a BF interpreted in any language in just a couple of minutes
< 1288573688 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interpreter
< 1288573697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try writing one in Malbolge.
< 1288573706 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except Malbolge :)
< 1288573711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you can, you win all the Internet points)
< 1288573714 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was excluding esoteric languages actually
< 1288573718 0 :FIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb write one in MSL :D
< 1288573726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's non-esoteric sub-Turing languages.
< 1288573744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was about to o.O, but SQL would be one, right?
< 1288573759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and "non-programming" languages like HTML
< 1288573760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL is indeed one.
< 1288573761 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on which extensions of SQL are available
< 1288573770 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML is not a programming language
< 1288573773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: HTML is still a language, though.
< 1288573774 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a markup language
< 1288573783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, for Hyper Text.
< 1288573806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English would count as TC, right?
< 1288573816 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not?
< 1288573826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any non-TC natural languages/
< 1288573842 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily define a corrispondence between a turing complete language and the english language, providing the right semantics
< 1288573875 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't think it would be easy to write BF interpretter in any esolang I have designed (I actually have more than that Pointer-B mess...)
< 1288573903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Ancient Egyptian TC?
< 1288573940 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you assuming the semantics as they intended it?
< 1288573977 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case Egyptians didn't have any 0 concept
< 1288573984 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think we can safely say "yes" to that
< 1288574009 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1288574021 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that hieroglyps are a TC language
< 1288574031 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not using their original semantics
< 1288574050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: Hieroglyphs were an orthography for a language.
< 1288574055 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: I would be *extremely* surprised if they did not have a concept for "nothing"
< 1288574073 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually make that *****extremely*****
< 1288574078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was thinking "off", but just realized how riduculous that was
< 1288574078 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's much more than that
< 1288574090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :riduuuuuuuculous
< 1288574094 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1288574106 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hieroglyps are far more esoteric as normal languages since they were used either to express words eithers as just word fragments
< 1288574128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My English parser broke.
< 1288574169 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, english is not my mother language and I'm watching a movie so my attention is partially here
< 1288574172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My English lexer *also* broke.
< 1288574191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my Japanese lexer sees funny squiggles.
< 1288574192 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case you shouldn't have reached parsing phase, you should have stopped before.
< 1288574217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: English speakers have highly accepting lexers.
< 1288574275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now ponders where the term "lexing" came from
< 1288574275 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: they had the concept of zero intended as perfection or completion but it wasn't, strictly talking, a numeral concept
< 1288574322 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: You don't need numerals to build a Turing Machine, though.
< 1288574344 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: no, but I think you need the concept of zero intended as zero :)
< 1288574363 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might the concept of words be sufficient?
< 1288574377 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is something somewhat trivial for us, we should ask an ancient Egyptian
< 1288574401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: No, you don't even need that.
< 1288574407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just take Apophis and hand him over to the Tok'ra
< 1288574414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we can ask his host!
< 1288574415 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wonder if "I have no money" in Ancient Egyptian was regarded as a state of perfection or completion :)
< 1288574444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[spoiler] but whatever
< 1288574446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: One could just as well have a Turing machine with an alphabet consisting of 日 and 本 instead of 0 and 1.
< 1288574458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't even matter what the symbols *mean*.
< 1288574580 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's undoubtely true, but we are talking about using a language to see if it is TC
< 1288574610 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you can build a TC language with any chosen alphabet, from that point of view every language is TC
< 1288574647 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem in that case is that you should be able to build a partial function that describes the behaviour of the turing machine by using their already existing semantics
< 1288574701 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without choosing an arbitrary one, just to prove its Turing completeness
< 1288574793 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you are just proving that a language, which shares its alphabet with hieroglyps, is TC
< 1288574803 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only need a small number of verbs and nouns and adjectived to describe a Turing machine: left, right, change, check, etc. I would guess there has never been a human language in existence that has lacked these concepts, and words for them.
< 1288574819 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*adjectives
< 1288574884 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why Turing completeness is a concept quite useful from a theoretical point of view, but really overused all around
< 1288574895 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stops fiddling with protected mode and goes to bed
< 1288574923 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should extend my code so it can go into long mode too
< 1288574972 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages that are not TC simply aren't languages used to express computations. So the fact that SQL is not TC doesn't astonish me :)
< 1288575033 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way this channel should be called #pedantic, you are really all ready to push newcomers in a corner ..
< 1288575040 0 :FIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, done
< 1288575055 0 :FIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$bf(++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.) -> HelloWorld!
< 1288575056 0 :FIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1288575206 0 :iamcal!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288575206 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288575255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1288575263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's frightening
< 1288575266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? the size of the bootloader?
< 1288575280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There's non-esoteric sub-Turing languages.
< 1288575281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. C
< 1288575284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least without libc
< 1288575297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : by the way this channel should be called #pedantic, you are really all ready to push newcomers in a corner ..
< 1288575313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of us -- cough pikhq -- have not learned that you're meant to start being nice once the newbie demonstrates a modicum of intelligence :)
< 1288575407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding pikhq let's be friends.
< 1288575409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1288575420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo one of the spontaneous channel lulls
< 1288575430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: I think it's meaningless to talk about natural languages being TC
< 1288575435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're description languages
< 1288575453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is XML TC?" is a meaningless question, but XML-Prog-Lang-2000 can perfectly well be TC with its syntax in XML
< 1288575466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Are S-Expressions TC?" is also meaningless, but Lisp is certainly Turing complete.
< 1288575481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly, you could define a language out of valid English sentences, and it could be Turing complete.
< 1288575490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Give me N gram(s) of sugar." could add N to the accumulator, etc.
< 1288575511 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: re, that was my point. I think that TC has its coolness but it is somewhat not so much significative
< 1288575528 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just the best effort we've been able to do in the field of computational theory
< 1288575566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because you can't apply the concept of turing-completeness to some things doesn't mean it's meaningless :)
< 1288575573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like saying colours aren't an ideal concept, because you can't ask what the colour of 3 is
< 1288575617 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't say it is meaningless, I say that every language used to compute something is 99.9% TC
< 1288575621 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I would disagree. There is a subset of English that is Turing-complete, even with the natural semantics of the sentences (no contrived meaning for what N grams of sugar is, e.g.)
< 1288575639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well sure, but it's not English that's TC
< 1288575643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the s-expression
< 1288575646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (brainfuck x) ...)
< 1288575648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't prove S-expressions TC
< 1288575652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it proves Scheme TC
< 1288575656 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is more than S-expressions, though.
< 1288575660 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sentences have meanings.
< 1288575662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: what that shows is that English Interpreter Deluxe is TC.
< 1288575665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well, sure
< 1288575668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're descriptive meanings
< 1288575671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they describe objects
< 1288575676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could describe a turing machine
< 1288575680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1288575689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't actually describe something that takes a Turing machine to compute
< 1288575697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although you can describe a Turing machine that computes a certain thing)
< 1288575719 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You are hopelessly confused on this point.
< 1288575739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: That's an... interesting way to say "we disagree".
< 1288575750 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to avoid a fight, can I ask a side question?
< 1288575771 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye the one of Cat's Eye Technologies?
< 1288575776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1288575789 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, my maximum respect to you :)
< 1288575801 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I remember your website from many years ago
< 1288575808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't believe the hype! catseye is actually a slimy, slithery snake of EVIL and LIES.
< 1288575822 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If I had said "words are TC", our analogy with S-exps would make sense. But I said "English", not "words".
< 1288575831 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you
< 1288575831 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, then he tried to push me in a corner together with the others :(
< 1288575833 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*your
< 1288575852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: And I believe that English is a language describing (and is thus executable) objects in a sub-TC way.
< 1288575855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1288575865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The contents of the tape after executing the Brainfuck program '...'."
< 1288575869 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why elitistic nerds are also misanthropic
< 1288575875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: You may be right!
< 1288575879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: it's IRC, get over it :P
< 1288575891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: I saw no pushing into corners, just nitpicking and discussion
< 1288575898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when the conversation is this academic, nitpicking is important
< 1288575910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : My English parser broke.
< 1288575921 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, some years are passed from my last IRC visit :)
< 1288575923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is Sgeo's wonderfully polite way of saying "please restate what you last said, I couldn't understand it"
< 1288575936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironic, i'm usually the asshole here
< 1288575952 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to speak about academic topics when english is not your mother language
< 1288575956 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: I'm sorry if it seemed like I was pushing you into a corner; certainly not my intent, I was just arguing my position.
< 1288575958 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really trying to do my best :)
< 1288575962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: i swear we're nice and cuddly
< 1288575980 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I'm just joking. Actually I was just trying to make you feel a little bit guilty about something
< 1288576017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't mean to be an asshole
< 1288576018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: YEAH WELL I HATE YOU TOO
< 1288576027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now back to my bootloader -- the only true friend i have
< 1288576032 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main concern
< 1288576033 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to find
< 1288576034 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a way
< 1288576039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to talk over multiple lines?
< 1288576041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats :)
< 1288576050 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to change my stack language in something different
< 1288576058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in something different"?
< 1288576062 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sorry, as I stated I'm not used anymore to IRC :)
< 1288576064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION legitimately doesn't understand
< 1288576069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i do it too
< 1288576073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just being silly
< 1288576082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good heuristic: lines in #esoteric are not serious 99% of the time
< 1288576103 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that just having a stack needs too many extra operations
< 1288576131 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I thought that here some dark-uber-mega-nerd-misantrophic-guy
< 1288576135 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could give me a better idea
< 1288576200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a bit of a vague question :)
< 1288576211 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I can get it
< 1288576213 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my actual idea
< 1288576229 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was to avoid variable declaration
< 1288576251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: functional?
< 1288576255 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but *guessing* having many stacks that are used by convention
< 1288576255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if every function has a fixed number of arguments
< 1288576258 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is
< 1288576262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the program is just f g x y h x y z
< 1288576267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if f has three arguments
< 1288576272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and g and h have two
< 1288576276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's f(g(x,y),h(x,y),z)
< 1288576277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1288576289 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now assume that many builtin instructions
< 1288576297 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can work on different parameters according to the stack
< 1288576306 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(either number of parameters, either types)
< 1288576319 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example .>
< 1288576329 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computes the floor function if it finds a float onto the stack
< 1288576338 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while it works like OCaml iter (or each)
< 1288576347 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it finds a collection and a lambda
< 1288576347 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god this language looks awesome
< 1288576365 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that
< 1288576374 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.2 .> will leave 2.0 onto the stack
< 1288576375 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while
< 1288576385 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{1,2,3,4}[^].> will print 1 2 3 4
< 1288576408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: right
< 1288576415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: so, function overloading except on a stack basically.
< 1288576421 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288576429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? :)
< 1288576432 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this can be good but a little bit weak in certain situations
< 1288576434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not sure what your question is
< 1288576434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1288576447 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my question was about not using a stack but something different :)
< 1288576457 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe multiple stacks that are filled accordingly to the types?
< 1288576466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so each lambda goes on the lambda stack?
< 1288576467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.?
< 1288576468 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't know, I just thought that the stack was not enough
< 1288576477 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that
< 1288576486 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there is a lambda stack, but it is used to track execution
< 1288576496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, "return stack".
< 1288576509 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the good old activation record
< 1288576514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: general advice - keep it simple. your language looks interesting as it is
< 1288576516 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of CPUs
< 1288576524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it's not *hugely* esoteric, but it's definitely more esoteric than most languages
< 1288576545 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your personal advice is to keep it this way?
< 1288576557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, yes; but if you hit on something interesting, don't let me stop you :)
< 1288576559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: maybe a queue!
< 1288576561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ... odd
< 1288576566 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotfl
< 1288576586 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be crazy
< 1288576602 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could implement a fuzzy rule
< 1288576615 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tries to execute the right implementation of the operator
< 1288576618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you want nothing more than to read my bootloader, right?
< 1288576621 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to what it actually finds on the stack
< 1288576632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: well that's not fuzzy that's just function overloading isn't it? :)
< 1288576639 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all
< 1288576667 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I was thinking about
< 1288576674 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ob
< 1288576677 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not having to pick values from the stack, or rotate them
< 1288576699 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this language must have only one stack
< 1288576702 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like something that is able to guess the correct operation not caring about order of parameters
< 1288576704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://sprunge.us/UfHO boot.s!
< 1288576708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should have an 'evaluation stack'
< 1288576712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: coppro is now in charge of your language :)
< 1288576718 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1288576726 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, sorry
< 1288576727 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two stacks
< 1288576733 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one for values/functions, one for evaluations
< 1288576736 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't want to be invasive, just to get some ideas
< 1288576736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it already does
< 1288576742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: invasive? howso?
< 1288576754 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just by submerging you with questions
< 1288576768 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we get tired/annoyed we'll just not answer
< 1288576773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing could ever match Sgeo's questioning power
< 1288576778 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too
< 1288576784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we still answer him
< 1288576787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because he doesn't shut up if we don't
< 1288576788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very little matches this channel's noise:signal ration
< 1288576809 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need a Sgeo-pass filter
< 1288576931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: I need to read logs and stop commenting things I don't understand in the slightest
< 1288576950 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: don't worry, I like your good intents
< 1288576966 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could be a good way to test the expressiveness of the language?
< 1288576988 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to implement things as project euler challenges?
< 1288577000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: it's esoteric, it's not meant to be expressive! well ok that's not true but still
< 1288577004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: implement a brainfuck interpreter
< 1288577005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Underload
< 1288577016 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was already trying it
< 1288577024 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the use of the stack was really tough :)
< 1288577025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1288577032 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I came here
< 1288577038 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1288577044 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easier to help with a specification
< 1288577056 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{:}#y{>}#z{'>:[:1+:],'<:[:1-:],'+:[%;3$>1+3$:<%%],'-:[%;3$>1-3&:<%%],'.:[2$2$>^^]}#x(:16:)0 0"+[>,]<-[+.<-]";0 0%[;'[= [,:1+:][']= [@y:>>% %4$% %<<,<<][1+]??]??]e@y^^ [@x:>>!]e
< 1288577063 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how much far I gone
< 1288577065 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I realize that what I was thinking is not what you are thinking
< 1288577070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: there's a function reference :P
< 1288577080 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that function reference is really old :(
< 1288577083 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I have an excellent idea for a language
< 1288577117 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: don't steal my ideas! :)
< 1288577153 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on your small code samples, it's RPN, right?
< 1288577161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit :P
< 1288577174 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is
< 1288577212 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah; I want a bracketless functional PN language
< 1288577220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I already mentioned that...
< 1288577224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And REBOL already did that.
< 1288577229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And Logo already did that.
< 1288577234 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know you mentioned it
< 1288577235 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, this could give a better view: http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9518/operators.png
< 1288577249 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many of these instructions can work with different parameters too
< 1288577260 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and REBOL has brackets
< 1288577267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: Is that an excel spreadsheet?
< 1288577271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, but it doesn't need them
< 1288577277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: pure functions can be just
< 1288577281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f g x y z h a b c
< 1288577283 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately yes
< 1288577290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and logo has no brackets... well, it has [], but that's just lambda
< 1288577292 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after trying to keep consistency directly in source code
< 1288577292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does logo
< 1288577301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so? you could easily get rid of lambda
< 1288577304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have it be
< 1288577306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda (list)
< 1288577306 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to find a simpler way, since many things were subjected to change
< 1288577311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(list) (list)
< 1288577311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd do
< 1288577318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: list
< 1288577320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda cons :a cons :b nil
< 1288577325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (lambda (a b)
< 1288577326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then uh
< 1288577331 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would require brackets for any sane implementation
< 1288577340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda cons :a cons :b nil cons :display cons :a nil
< 1288577341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be
< 1288577343 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't stack languages bracketless RPN?
< 1288577348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (a b) (display a))
< 1288577352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i meant list as in a list object
< 1288577353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the list function
< 1288577358 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, which is considerably easier than bracketless PN
< 1288577361 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda add #1 #2
< 1288577383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no it's not
< 1288577384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: what's the real issue?
< 1288577391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RPN languages with lambda have [] too
< 1288577393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exact same problem
< 1288577395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"problem"
< 1288577398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1288577402 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Durh
< 1288577406 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I tried to explain it in my words but with no success :/
< 1288577407 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lies. I will show you the evility of my language
< 1288577412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: :/
< 1288577447 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if something what is not just a stack but that doesn't work by variable declarations too exists
< 1288577453 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what = that
< 1288577472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: here is what i think you want to say
< 1288577480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Are there languages which are neither concatenative or imperative?"
< 1288577484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps?
< 1288577486 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that variable declaration is verbose
< 1288577496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: lambda calculus :)
< 1288577517 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while using just a stack is verbose too, since you then need to manipulate it very often inside the code
< 1288577535 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sally has no brackets. no proper lambdas, either, but it would be a straightforward addition
< 1288577538 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I would like to have a computational model which works without having to do explicitly any of two
< 1288577556 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it simply doesn't exist
< 1288577652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: of course it does
< 1288577655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: see the lambda calculus
< 1288577702 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real problem about λ-calculus is that it needs a more complex VM underlying it
< 1288577738 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmh I'll take a look, but I remember from university that it needs to care about bound variables, free variables and so on
< 1288577750 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having to declare parameters will bring back verbosity
< 1288577793 0 :FIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -
< 1288577803 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the way I'm just guessing, this is the real first approach to an esoteric languages)
< 1288577811 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have found something too obscure for Fark1
< 1288577812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=5726773
< 1288577816 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my lexer broke too
< 1288577837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the real problem about λ-calculus is that it needs a more complex VM underlying it
< 1288577841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only on imperative hardware
< 1288577849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-calculus on the Reduceron would be a sinch
< 1288577861 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sinch
< 1288577862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin
< 1288577874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION channels elliott
< 1288577883 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the relativistic way you approach things
< 1288577900 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case I'm not writing this language in an imperative language
< 1288577905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: well if all we cared about was intel amd x86 windows linux... we'd be very boring. :)
< 1288577909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: ocaml is imperative
< 1288577911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just functional, too
< 1288577920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ocaml functions can have any side effects they want
< 1288577923 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's not pure functional
< 1288577930 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can use it as a pure functional
< 1288577935 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want
< 1288577936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"impure functional" is a rather worthless concept academically :)
< 1288577942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl counts as impure functional
< 1288577944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has lambdas
< 1288577973 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually skipped the course about functional languages years ago
< 1288577984 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because I was too young to feel their coolness
< 1288578023 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I admit my ignorance
< 1288578035 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I assert that OCaml is purer than perl from that point of view :)
< 1288578052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purER, sure, but just try and define the scale of purity mathematically >:)
< 1288578078 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(purer is not correct in english?)
< 1288578084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: it's correct
< 1288578086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was emphasising it
< 1288578091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "pur*er*, but not pure"
< 1288578101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MORE pure" is equivalent emphasis
< 1288578113 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1288578115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: aiee, you didn't tell me -- you can't read a whole floppy with one int 13h!
< 1288578127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you'd have to go through the heads and cylinders and stuff
< 1288578127 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you from? (just to chitchat, but I have to ask it after some lines)
< 1288578141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i can only read 31 kilobytes as-is!
< 1288578146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: england
< 1288578147 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's because i didn't know that!
< 1288578159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is purer, OCaml or Factor?
< 1288578166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on what is meant by pure
< 1288578169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: http://www.ctyme.com/intr/rb-0607.htm
< 1288578173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: "CL = sector number 1-63 (bits 0-5)"
< 1288578183 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purely concatenative, in which Factor is obviously closer, or purely functional
< 1288578186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: 63 * 512 bytes = 31.5 k
< 1288578187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, um
< 1288578189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*31.5k
< 1288578197 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the point is that you can't define a degree of pureness (or at least I think that was elliott's point
< 1288578197 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so read a bunch of chunks in a loop
< 1288578197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so yeah, urgh!
< 1288578204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh i will once the kernel is big enough :D
< 1288578205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: it was
< 1288578218 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can assert it empirically
< 1288578219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: other things i'll do then: do the A20 line properly, rather than relying on the BIOS...
< 1288578228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: say, how hard is it to talk to the floppy without the bios, any ideas?
< 1288578306 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: since you seem fond of this topic, which languages are pure functional but with performance comparable to OCaml? just for curiosity
< 1288578329 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this means compiled into native and strongly type inferred)
< 1288578331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: I, uh, Haskell! If you write your code in a way that GHC serendipitously happens to like...
< 1288578331 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i doubt you actually want to talk to a *floppy*, but... i don't think it's *super* hard, just messy
< 1288578353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: mm. wait, surely befos reads from the floppy?
< 1288578358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via ide or something i guess though
< 1288578360 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: using bios, yes
< 1288578366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh, right, you never cli
< 1288578439 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm scared that the lack of imperative features can make simple things really complex sometimes
< 1288578461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: if you code inside the IO monad in haskell, then it's "just" like an imperative language
< 1288578478 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait, this should make it impure too
< 1288578486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: nope
< 1288578520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: I'd try to explain, but to *really* explain why it doesn't make the language impure in any way requires a dumbed-down version of a category theory concept and I'm not in the mood for that :)
< 1288578522 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@64.231.55.154 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288578550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: for any X you can find a tutorial explaining how monads are actually just like X :)
< 1288578559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even burritos (http://blog.plover.com/prog/burritos.html)
< 1288578572 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe I won't even understand you
< 1288578594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: monads are actually really simple -- it's explaining them that's the hard thing
< 1288578601 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288578615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: the best policy for a beginning haskeller is just to trust that the IO monad works :)
< 1288578637 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: faith is not something I'm used to rely upon :)
< 1288578665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: when you wrote your first program, did you ask how on earth "print foo" put little dots representing foo on the screen, or did you just go "ok, that says 'foo'"? :)
< 1288578686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *is* possible to fully understand monads before using them -- but impractical, and pointlessly difficult
< 1288578690 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually did, but I was unable to answer my self :(
< 1288578709 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this means that after OCaml I'll try Haskell, since functional programming really opened my mind
< 1288578749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: It is a good idea.
< 1288578751 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just a last question.. does Erlang worth trying?
< 1288578779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: opinions are divided :)
< 1288578783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has interesting things.
< 1288578791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to be the one to make that decision for you :)
< 1288578847 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for your answering availability you just gained an alpha release of my language as soon as it's ready, now feel happy..
< 1288578859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: I can barely contain my excitement.
< 1288578862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sarcasm, but ok :P)
< 1288578871 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is a good start
< 1288578875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: you know what's cool? my OS doesn't boot!
< 1288578884 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: linux?
< 1288578890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: no, literally, MY os :)
< 1288578907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because writing an os is the best thing anyone can ever do apart from ....
< 1288578908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know
< 1288578912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is fully willing to attempt to describe why the IO monad is not impure
< 1288578913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resurrecting the dinosaurs
< 1288578920 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: writing a programming language is just second to that
< 1288578921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But elliott will yell at me
< 1288578925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: please don't take up Sgeo on his offer; he is an excellent confuser :)
< 1288578930 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from my point of view)
< 1288578970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's so SIMPLE
< 1288578974 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of
< 1288578979 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a bootloader problem or a OS problem?
< 1288578985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels like a burrito tutorial author
< 1288578989 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because you were talking about bootloaders so far
< 1288579060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: bootloader, i think
< 1288579070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either my floppy assembly script isn't working, or my bootloader isn't actually jumping to the kernel
< 1288579081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^@^@^@^@^@Uª^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@
< 1288579084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspicious lack of my kernel there
< 1288579106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just wants to blurt out what's on his mind
< 1288579117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: /msg me with it
< 1288579118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm eager to hear it
< 1288579128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares himself
< 1288579179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just making sure I don't embarrass myself by using an example function that doesn't actually exist
< 1288579190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it in /msg
< 1288579202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd: `kernel/kernel': cannot skip to specified offset
< 1288579204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain it!
< 1288579231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it needs to be seek=
< 1288579232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain it
< 1288579234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skip= is for input
< 1288579259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that works, either :D
< 1288579277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@^@^@^@^@UªEVERYBODY PARTY!ôéêÿÿÿ^@^@^@
< 1288579280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it is copying ther
< 1288579281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there
< 1288579468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My explanation appears to have the elliott seal of approval?
< 1288579530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE
< 1288579679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Things that might seem impure, such as getChar function, don't actually do what they say. Instead, they return a description. getChar always returns the same description of the action of getting a character. You piece together descriptions to make a bigger description. Whatever main describes is what's done
< 1288580049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: gah! my bootloader isn't loading correctly!
< 1288580057 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clicks "Popular amongst people in their twenties" on AppBrain.
< 1288580063 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it. People in their twenties are retards.
< 1288580064 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288580088 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288580158 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the source of developing software, it is common that errors, or "bugs", are introduced. one of the jobs of the software developer is to locate and fix these bugs, a process called "debugging".
< 1288580184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: no it's clearly the bioses fault
< 1288580187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidence: fuck the bios
< 1288580191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you disagree?
< 1288580195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now catseye -- fix my bios
< 1288580200 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a technophile
< 1288580225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is also not funny
< 1288580249 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never knows what Sgeo is talking about half the time
< 1288580294 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288580359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1288580371 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I *set* GTK_CFLAGS, you stupid configure script! don't tell me it's not set!
< 1288580454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the read is failing; even if the floppy is random, I just display zeroes.
< 1288580604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't you using a VM?
< 1288580611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes...
< 1288580648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Maybe I should ask what read is failing? Is it a read your code is doing, or is the VM actually simulating faulty hardware now?
< 1288580720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foremr
< 1288580721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*former
< 1288580752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders jEdit
< 1288580832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...okay, this is just inexplicable
< 1288580838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm following the interrupt spec perfectly.
< 1288580849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not erroring out.
< 1288580915 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so apparently it was not smart enough to look for pkg-config *on my search path*, it had to be told where it was
< 1288580948 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! and netbsd world built.
< 1288580989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: including kernel?
< 1288581060 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i may have to build it again; i need t check somehtin
< 1288581069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: because if so DEBIAN YAY :p
< 1288581097 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its good
< 1288581112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: DO YOU TOTALLY REMEMBER THE SSH COMMAND (nothing is more important)
< 1288581188 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it started with ssh
< 1288581226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ssh -L R 9292:localhost:22 cpressey@91.104.241.33
< 1288581227 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe emulating linux 2.6 will require linux 2.6 shared libs; such things are not so convenient as to be in pkgsrc already
< 1288581231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's it
< 1288581233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it won't
< 1288581235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it's in a _chroot_
< 1288581240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chroot contains _all the linux libraries_ including glibc
< 1288581248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you chroot, it looks for /lib/libc or whatever, the /bin/sh
< 1288581252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is of course *inside the chroot*
< 1288581257 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1288581318 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, need to reboot to test new kernel
< 1288581323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha good luck
< 1288581341 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1288581344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :......
< 1288581369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...what?
< 1288581414 0 :Sgeo|jEdit!~Sgeo|jEdi@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288581418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1288581474 0 :Sgeo|jEdit!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288581474 0 :Sgeo|jEdit!~Sgeo|jEdi@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288581498 0 :Quadlex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1288581503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now accidentally spamming comex
< 1288581538 0 :Sgeo|jEdit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go
< 1288581582 0 :Sgeo|jEdit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what it's worth, I hate this client
< 1288581613 0 :Sgeo|jEdit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What? Sgeo have taste?)
< 1288581720 0 :Sgeo|jEdit!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288582147 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288582211 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was interesting
< 1288582223 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it claims to not have any file system modules compiled into the kernel
< 1288582236 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus could could not mount the, uh, filesystem
< 1288582268 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the new kernel makes my speakers go "WEEP!" during boot now
< 1288582293 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom kernel time!
< 1288582340 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288582361 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288582408 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the silly
< 1288582420 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all fs support is built as modules by default
< 1288582422 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL
< 1288582443 0 :Quadlex!~quadlex@li23-6.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288582659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: don't you embed your fs in the kernel? SHEESH
< 1288582680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the limitations of any editor not written in Factor attempting to do syntax hilighting on Factor code
< 1288582750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just freakin' use FUEL
< 1288582761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even jedit's author, uses it any more
< 1288582765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the same as factor's author!
< 1288582774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he uses fuel like everyone else
< 1288582801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How well does emacs really run on Windows/
< 1288582819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly.
< 1288582955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the editor.emacs thingy know where to look on Windows?
< 1288582968 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PAL emulation" in VICE should be called "CRT emulation" -- as a North American I feel discriminated against by this
< 1288583009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it, presumably, only emulates the characteristics of a PAL C64 on a PAL TV
< 1288583017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you have to set it, just like on unix
< 1288583020 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it look like a tv!
< 1288583037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it's lovely :P
< 1288583045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK FUCK YOU BIOS
< 1288583052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM GONNA FUCK UP YOUR SHIT AND READ THE FUCKING KERNEL WHETHER YOU WANT ME TO OR NOT
< 1288583142 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in ntsc mode! which they seem to have improved slightly in this version
< 1288583161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: why would you want to use ntsc mode
< 1288583167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pal representin'
< 1288583229 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...............................for nostalgia!
< 1288583256 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried Factor once and it defeated me
< 1288583258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: but it looks exactly the same, more or less :P
< 1288583291 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried Emacs like a dozen times an it always defeated me too
< 1288583311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dw 0xAA55
< 1288583311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason the signature has to be written this way round!"
< 1288583316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with morons writing tutorials?
< 1288583333 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, hmm?
< 1288583391 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so i'm gonna check out this ophis thing
< 1288583404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: the manual is pretty good
< 1288583415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: http://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/ophis/manual/book1.html
< 1288583429 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUTS TO MANUALS
< 1288583442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i don't mean read it :P
< 1288583444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just mean reference it
< 1288583491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This tutorial is to show you how to load sectors from a floppy disk. Variations will be needed to get this code to work on most other disks."
< 1288583492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there
< 1288583610 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disks of varying floppiness
< 1288583642 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so ophis can assemble my existing code RIGHT
< 1288583713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Be nice? What's that?
< 1288583723 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least one file!
< 1288583723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1288583758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just doesn't work! aaargh
< 1288583763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WANNA DEBUG MY BOOTLOADER?
< 1288583804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should write a bootloader at some point
< 1288583823 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everyone laughs at the thought of Sgeo doing something like that*
< 1288583943 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ophis is decent. i hope he's improved label arith. and being able to produce a symbol map would be a nice feature. but, i can hack on it myself if i like
< 1288584010 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's not difficult. really.
< 1288584025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott certainly seems to be having trouble
< 1288584042 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is trying to make elephants dance in his bootloader.
< 1288584053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: actually, my problem right now is loading sectors from the floppy
< 1288584060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i can enable the a20 line, i can go into protected mode, everything
< 1288584063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i just can't load the kernel
< 1288584074 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you load the kernel *before* the otehr stuff, right?
< 1288584083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes. well, i print "boo" first.
< 1288584090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: reset the disk. but you're meant to do that
< 1288584105 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was working before, from what i gather
< 1288584117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seemingly.
< 1288584186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The 6 segment registers are all loaded with a segment selector, which is an offset into either the GDT or the current LDT. A segment selector is only 16 bits long and looks like this:"
< 1288584188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE A FUCKING LIAR
< 1288584199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M IN REAL MODE
< 1288584201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem
< 1288584259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A
< 1288584260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA!!!
< 1288584273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1288584325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehehe "boob*o*o*" AHEM
< 1288584334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maturity elliott this is serious
< 1288584470 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb testing NEW new kernel
< 1288584481 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1288584584 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288584798 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288584815 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannot exec /sbin/init: error 8
< 1288584829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: LAWL
< 1288584865 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translation:
< 1288584872 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have no chance to survive make your time.
< 1288585040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: end of the netbsd era eh?
< 1288585147 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i apparently have to install more things somewhere else.
< 1288585193 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a kernel module for executing ELF files.
< 1288585256 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok NOW i find http://www.netbsd.org/changes/changes-6.0.html
< 1288585325 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1288585360 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./build.sh modules
< 1288585363 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok cool
< 1288585437 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error 8 is ENOEXEC.
< 1288585464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056902415e[CPU0 ] fetch_raw_descriptor: GDT: index (807) 100 > limit (17)
< 1288585465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1288585469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know what that means?
< 1288585529 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are trying to access GDT descriptor far above the limits.
< 1288585569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: That's the thing, though; I'm really not. :)
< 1288585574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I think my kernel is still failing to load. *sigh*
< 1288585588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO YOU WANT, INFERNAL HARDWARE?!
< 1288585629 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limit 17 would mean it only has 3 entries (null, code and data)...
< 1288585635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Indeed, it does.
< 1288585649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I think it's trying to run random memory since the kernel didn't load properly, or suchlike.
< 1288585676 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like the descriptor its trying to access is 1024, 1025, 1026 or 1027...
< 1288585692 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, no.
< 1288585709 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2048, 2049, 2050 or 2051.
< 1288585747 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you try to refer to 0x0008 (that would be code?) and get the bytes swapped for some reason?
< 1288585755 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or offset by one.
< 1288585783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The code is loaded at 0x8000.
< 1288585806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The kernel, that is.
< 1288585821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Hmm...
< 1288585826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jmp KERNEL_SEGMENT:0
< 1288585832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do this, but in protected mode.
< 1288585841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should do jmp KERNEL_SEGMENT * 16?
< 1288585842 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because trying to refer to segment 0x0800 (instead of 0x0008) would trigger just that kind of error...
< 1288585852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Indeed, KERNEL_SEGMENT = 0x800.
< 1288585935 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are in pmode ring 0 with the likely GDT, the only valid segment to jump to is segment 8.
< 1288585946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Right.
< 1288585957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: So what I need to do is... "jmp CODE_SEGMENT:0x8000", right?
< 1288585970 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so.
< 1288585974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Thanks; I'll try that.
< 1288586009 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need to initialize SS first so it validates after jump (0x0010?)
< 1288586027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ax, DATA_SEGMENT
< 1288586028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ds, ax
< 1288586028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov es, ax
< 1288586028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov fs, ax
< 1288586028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov gs, ax
< 1288586028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ss, ax
< 1288586032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already done that.
< 1288586043 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that should work.
< 1288586064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu: fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x000a0000
< 1288586064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EAX=00000000 EBX=0000ff31 ECX=00000000 EDX=00000500
< 1288586064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESI=00000002 EDI=e900fed4 EBP=00000000 ESP=00006ef9
< 1288586080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bochs error is just...
< 1288586082 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. You jumped into VGA memory.
< 1288586085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00042725627e[CPU0 ] write_virtual_checks(): no write access to seg
< 1288586086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00042725627e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): vector must be within IDT table limits, IDT.limit = 0x0
< 1288586086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00042725627e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): vector must be within IDT table limits, IDT.limit = 0x0
< 1288586086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00042725627i[CPU0 ] CPU is in protected mode (active)
< 1288586089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ha!
< 1288586093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how I managed that.
< 1288586099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do set the segment register to vga memory in real mode.
< 1288586105 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSBox would lock up if you did that.
< 1288586116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1288586117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ax, DATA_SEGMENT
< 1288586117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ds, ax
< 1288586121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ds was where i had vga memory, so
< 1288586126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov word [0xB8000+ebx+2], 0x0F21
< 1288586138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the last time i reference vga memory in my program and as you can see...
< 1288586179 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blub blub
< 1288586181 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1288586183 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What instruction actually triggers that execution attempt from VGA memory?
< 1288586197 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'jmp CODE_SEGMENT:0x8000'?
< 1288586304 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288586350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I'm not sure how to get bochs to tell me that :)
< 1288586388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Hmm, I have replaced CODE_SEGMENT: with "push CODE_SEGMENT \ pop cs" earlier in the program.
< 1288586392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just "jmp (KERNEL_SEGMENT*16)" later.
< 1288586396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same error, but that seems clear.
< 1288586398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cleaner.
< 1288586401 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POP CS doesn't exist.
< 1288586416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Are you sure? nasm assembles it happily.
< 1288586443 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on any x86 processor that supports protected mode.
< 1288586453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Oh, looks like it assembles it into a hopeless tangle of things...
< 1288586463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ax, CODE_SEGMENT
< 1288586463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov cs, ax
< 1288586466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll work, right?
< 1288586477 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can do that either...
< 1288586482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Can you set CS at all?
< 1288586523 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288586528 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetBSD catseye 5.99.39 NetBSD 5.99.39 (CATSEYE) #0: Sun Oct 31 16:54:30 CDT 2010 catseye@catseye:/usr/obj/sys/arch/i386/compile/CATSEYE i386
< 1288586531 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^^
< 1288586541 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to install the userland!
< 1288586542 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think only far jump, far call, far return, interrupt, syscall or sysreturn can change CS.
< 1288586548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: NO WAIT YOU SHOULD GIVE ME SSH FIRST >:)
< 1288586550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288586551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not.
< 1288586563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Oh. Then CS is already correct :)
< 1288586565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jmp CODE_SEGMENT:dword other_side
< 1288586611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I'm actually at a complete loss why it jumps into VGA memory...
< 1288586644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: KERNEL_SEGMENT is 0x800, so it's jumping to 0x8000.
< 1288586651 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's graphics VGA memory, not text VGA memory...
< 1288586661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I still think the floppy might not be reading correctly.
< 1288586664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, easy way to find out.
< 1288586667 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Failed target: mkvarsyesno
< 1288586671 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whuh-oh
< 1288586682 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it runs off the end of kernel, there's only zeroes (AFAIK, that instruction can actually work) and then hits VGA graphics memory?
< 1288586705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: *Possibly* the kernel isn't even *there* and there's only zeroes.
< 1288586714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: It does pause a bit before crashing.
< 1288586732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: But I'm calling the BIOS perfectly, I've even carbon-copied catseye's code -- I have no idea why it isn't reading from floppy!
< 1288586773 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00 00 is ADD [EAX], AL. With the segments the way they are, that works even with zero EAX...
< 1288586791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Indeed, I just added this:.
< 1288586796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov al, [KERNEL_SEGMENT*16]
< 1288586796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov byte [0xB8000+ebx+4], al
< 1288586796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov byte [0xB8000+ebx+5], 0x0F
< 1288586796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov al, [(KERNEL_SEGMENT*16)+1]
< 1288586796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov byte [0xB8000+ebx+6], al
< 1288586796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov byte [0xB8000+ebx+7], 0x0F
< 1288586798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x: jmp x
< 1288586800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before the jump.
< 1288586804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it just says "boo" on my screen.
< 1288586807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. i'm putting zeroes there.
< 1288586829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the kernel isn't getting loaded.
< 1288586831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. WTF?
< 1288586948 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you post the code somewhere?
< 1288586963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I TOTALLY CAN
< 1288586976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Ilari: http://sprunge.us/MLOL
< 1288587159 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how sprunge has put "LOL" in that url
< 1288587254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: SO WUTZ MY BUG
< 1288587255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL
< 1288587339 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just says "boo"?
< 1288587355 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appropriate for Oct 31 I suppose :)
< 1288587376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i don't even know HOW
< 1288587384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today has been a good day.
< 1288587385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: if you look at my code, it all writes *after* the "boot!"
< 1288587388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so wtf
< 1288587449 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I just got back from trick-or-treating
< 1288587456 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free candy is best candy
< 1288587466 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it all writes", you mean, the code after 'protect' does stuff? maybe "t!" is being erased
< 1288587497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yeah but HOW
< 1288587502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes the NONSENSE
< 1288587503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: Yeah, I'm eating the leftovers ATM.
< 1288587511 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1288587520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did not buy the candy, for I live with my parents)
< 1288587552 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I
< 1288587560 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am 16 so I have an excuse
< 1288587565 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you pop bx
< 1288587570 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your push bx is commented out
< 1288587581 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's you excuse, pikhq?
< 1288587585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: uh right
< 1288587593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: push bx before "mov ah, 02h"
< 1288587595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: 20 and go to school nearby.
< 1288587600 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1288587604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ok now it's just "boot!"
< 1288587608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: with what are presumably zero bytes after it
< 1288587611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: So, similar position except it'd be *possible* for me to move out.
< 1288587618 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1288587620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except that it's nearly impossible to find a job right now.
< 1288587625 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to move when I am of-age
< 1288587627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm 8 years old and own a flute that gives me a bedroom
< 1288587627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking Bush.
< 1288587636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*15, *don't own
< 1288587636 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if I have to walk to Seattle
< 1288587639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, reality is never quite as perfect.
< 1288587641 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Northern AZ
< 1288587649 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's 15?
< 1288587660 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains the pompous douchebaggery
< 1288587662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually did move out. And reality is a bitch and a half.
< 1288587663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: 8
< 1288587688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: The pompous douchebaggery is just from knowing far better than most people.
< 1288587694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh shut up
< 1288587697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you douchebag :)
< 1288587700 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking he knows far better
< 1288587708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: it's always interesting to see how many people just accept the pompous douchebaggery until "zomg he's $age_at_time" which suddenly offers an explanation for why i'm a pompous douchebag
< 1288587717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: But, see, he does. :)
< 1288587721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, of course, is just a rationalisation, but there you go...
< 1288587724 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, I know more than elliott about lots of things. But, I'm not a douchebag.
< 1288587734 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was a pompous douchebag at 15 too
< 1288587738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: no, but you are, evidently, incapable of rational thought
< 1288587740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, I was a pompous douchebag at 15 too
< 1288587745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: You're fucking 16.
< 1288587747 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then serious depression kicked in
< 1288587750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this in no way lends evidence to the proposition that my pompous douchebaggery is due to my age
< 1288587753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: People don't change that damned much in a year.
< 1288587758 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I am too depressed to be a douchebag
< 1288587760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone on the internet is depressed! Everyone on the internet has motherfuckin' autism!
< 1288587770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone on the internet is so much deeper than all these sheep!
< 1288587773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And every other possible disorder.
< 1288587774 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm diagnosed with clinical depression
< 1288587783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone on the internet is fucking stupid and you too -- whoever is reading it, you too.
< 1288587784 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take pills and everything
< 1288587832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i think i blame jews for my bootloader
< 1288587837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be that my code is wrong, absolutely not
< 1288587858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't you have someone less offensive to blame?
< 1288587874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, right, Muslims!
< 1288587875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Like that witchdoctor over there?
< 1288587881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points at nearest black man
< 1288587887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I blame society.
< 1288587891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame society for my murders.
< 1288587936 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, if there was no society, it wouldn't be murder, would it? let's move on.
< 1288587948 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so now that your stack is no longer stupid
< 1288587957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: still doesn't work at all
< 1288587968 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *don't* see the other stuff being printed?
< 1288587974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Nope; zeroes.
< 1288587980 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you saw before. when the stack was stupid.
< 1288587980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, spaces, but they're zeroes.
< 1288587985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw nothing.
< 1288587992 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mistake
< 1288587993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never seen anything because *it isn't being loaded*.
< 1288588004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's what's loaded right after the first sector, btw:
< 1288588009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits 32
< 1288588010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :org 0x8000
< 1288588010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo: hlt
< 1288588010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jmp foo
< 1288588056 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288588057 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write the code to display what's been loaded, before you got into protmode.
< 1288588078 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obv you have to write it in segmented form, so i didn't just say 'copy it to...'
< 1288588095 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"segmented form"="real mode"
< 1288588138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i did
< 1288588141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: zeroes, the same
< 1288588144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i did that like three times :)
< 1288588220 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't know if this is it but you don't set dl when you issue the reset interrupt
< 1288588232 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine has:
< 1288588233 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ah, 00h ; call code = reset
< 1288588233 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov dl, 00h ; drive
< 1288588234 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int 13h
< 1288588244 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours skips the dl part
< 1288588270 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god forbid you are resetting some OTHER drive.
< 1288588290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: isn't dl initialised to current-drive???
< 1288588320 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be, ok
< 1288588331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i'll try though
< 1288588443 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288588506 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288588539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: same result
< 1288588573 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should de-OPTOMISE my bootblock and make it easier to understand, but the only other thing i can suggest for now is to double-check your sec, cyl, head computations
< 1288588591 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a netbsd 5.999999 world now so i have to reboot to completely break my machine, you see
< 1288588616 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb (knock on wood)
< 1288588618 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1288588746 0 :catseye!~catseye@99.96.163.210 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288588759 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetBSD 5.99.39 inna house!
< 1288588860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: SSH!
< 1288588983 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otay
< 1288588991 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to log
< 1288589111 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad local forwarding specification 'R'
< 1288589124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: uh uh
< 1288589126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: what command did you run
< 1288589143 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh -L R 9292:localhost:22 cpressey@91.104.241.33
< 1288589144 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU SAID
< 1288589169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: *ssh -R
< 1288589173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have made mistake lol
< 1288589178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/-L R/-R/
< 1288589198 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1288589200 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1288589246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] Bad system call (core dumped) sudo chroot debian
< 1288589246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye$
< 1288589253 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wahoo
< 1288589255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: 2.6 SUPPORT WOO
< 1288589283 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm
< 1288589474 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is starting to bore me
< 1288589492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, this one did
< 1288589604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: up until now *xkcd did not bore you*?
< 1288589692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all
< 1288589754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288589862 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Europeans are ruining me.
< 1288589885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh?
< 1288589886 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently I've been counting thumb-first. I don't know why, and I can't stop myself. I've become so conscious of it that I'm even more incapable of stopping it.
< 1288589894 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other day I said "queue" instead of "line"
< 1288589919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The queue thing might just be bits getting to you.
< 1288589923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...what do americans normally count with?
< 1288589926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pinky first???
< 1288589936 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Index-finger first, then to pinky, then thumb is #5
< 1288589936 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: index finger down to pinky, thumb last
< 1288589940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1288589945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the most retarded thing i've ever heard
< 1288589950 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288589951 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which is also how Brits count, by the way :P
< 1288589955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't
< 1288589957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't dot hat
< 1288589960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do that
< 1288589969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it never occurred to me to do something so blatantly illogical
< 1288590013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peple count on fingers?
< 1288590018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, peple do.
< 1288590018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Peple/People/
< 1288590019 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: and what is error 79? :)
< 1288590019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just asked two friends, neither of them do that.
< 1288590044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think my "Brits" you might mean "Brits in the 18th century".
< 1288590045 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find a Wikipedia article on this.
< 1288590046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*by
< 1288590048 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE.
< 1288590049 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Possibly.
< 1288590058 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Brits also use feet and miles btw.
< 1288590064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. Yes we do.
< 1288590071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Usually for height and road distances only.
< 1288590075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The units should DIE IN A FIRE.
< 1288590075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, people under N. :)
< 1288590087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Along with the stone.
< 1288590089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Y'know, they make perfect sense in base 12.
< 1288590112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Tell that to the hand.
< 1288590115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unit)
< 1288590131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it, SOMEWHERE there must be an article about this on Wikipedia!
< 1288590175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try "hands"
< 1288590189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_counting
< 1288590192 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The human hand has five fingers [citation needed]
< 1288590192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finger counting, or dactylonomy, is the art of counting along one's fingers. Though marginalized in modern societies by Arabic numerals, formerly different systems flourished in many cultures,[1][2] including educated methods far more sophisticated than the one-by-one finger count taught today in preschool education.
< 1288590193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finger counting can also serve as a form of manual communication, particularly in marketplace trading and also in games such as morra.
< 1288590193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finger counting is studied by ethnomathematics.
< 1288590194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ETHNOMATHEMATICS
< 1288590198 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not useful.
< 1288590204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ethno. Mathematics.
< 1288590210 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I count differently
< 1288590214 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :79 => ELIBACC
< 1288590217 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the art
< 1288590221 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx Ilari
< 1288590226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so have you figured it out yet :P
< 1288590239 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the fingercounting method used by American Sign Language
< 1288590260 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: That's even screwier than conventional American counting :P
< 1288590269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: I find that very very weird for numbers larger than 10.
< 1288590282 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, I use Chisanbop
< 1288590291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just to be different"
< 1288590298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no valid excuse for not knowing ASL.
< 1288590311 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use thumb-as-5 to count up to 10 on one hand (but not usually)
< 1288590315 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok
< 1288590317 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to 9
< 1288590318 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lied.
< 1288590319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh my god, when i start with a fist and try and put my index finger up to count
< 1288590322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: my thumb automatically pops out
< 1288590323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not joking
< 1288590331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is SERIOUSLY hard to get the index finger out
< 1288590332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes dedication
< 1288590337 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Point instead of counting.
< 1288590340 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288590346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is that what all Americans do :P
< 1288590352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do binary numerals instead.
< 1288590360 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just training a poor Brit on being a good A'merkin!
< 1288590362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Tried that once; really uncomfortable, impossible to understand.
< 1288590365 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait if you start with the humb, how do you do 4? i can't hold my pinky back like that!
< 1288590368 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can count in binary on my fingers
< 1288590369 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thumb
< 1288590375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Really simple to do.
< 1288590389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Except that you flip someone off at 100.
< 1288590389 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ... do you use your thumb to hold your pinky while counting three?
< 1288590396 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with thumb-last, you use the thumb to hold the pinky in, at 3!
< 1288590397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. 100_2.
< 1288590399 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes!
< 1288590403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Requires tons of finger movement though.
< 1288590404 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Pretty pathetic :P
< 1288590410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, well.
< 1288590417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're all retarded
< 1288590424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's what 10000100 is for.
< 1288590432 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what humans are
< 1288590435 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retarded
< 1288590439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Try 0b1000
< 1288590440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IMPOSSIBLE
< 1288590452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 0? EASY.
< 1288590457 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I should show you my "4", it's very entertaining what with the half bent fingers and all.
< 1288590471 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*European "4"
< 1288590475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but it's physically impossible to lift up like that!
< 1288590478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: We just hold the thumb in. So much easier.
< 1288590485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... Zero.
< 1288590489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ???
< 1288590490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 0b1000
< 1288590494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 in binary
< 1288590500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh. Misparsing.
< 1288590501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your fingers
< 1288590507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is physically torturous
< 1288590507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 0 base 1000 is how I parsed it.
< 1288590511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1288590522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's half-bent. Quite annoying.
< 1288590543 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I am feeling like a twat, I convert all my answers to octal for my math class.
< 1288590553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: And then you don't just *feel* like a twat!
< 1288590561 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXACTLY
< 1288590576 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of kicking puppies, I do that
< 1288590583 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my only release for anger
< 1288590597 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is slowly dying on the inside
< 1288590710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shoots Sasha in the leg
< 1288590713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Quater-imaginary finger counting.
< 1288590717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you're slowly dying on the outside!
< 1288590718 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do so much worse than octal.
< 1288590721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: o.O
< 1288590725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that would be difficult.
< 1288590728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a binary equivalent?
< 1288590729 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base-11 would be pretty mean.
< 1288590730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Base pi?
< 1288590740 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I like duodecimal
< 1288590743 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base pi would be more difficult to do than it was worth :P
< 1288590748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Base 9 is the worst for talking in.
< 1288590751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so close to making sense.
< 1288590753 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ternary
< 1288590782 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, or sometimes I will use unal
< 1288590795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naaah, imaginary base.
< 1288590801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Golden ratio finger counting.
< 1288590809 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base i
< 1288590812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio_base
< 1288590814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ratio base
< 1288590844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIME FOR DUDLEY DO-RIGHT WOOH
< 1288590861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: You can disconnect from my box now :P
< 1288590906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Base √2 behaves in a very similar way to base 2 as all one has to do to convert a number from binary into base √2 is put a zero digit in between every binary digit; for example, 191110 = 111011101112 becomes 101010001010100010101√2 and 511810 = 10011111111102 becomes 1000001010101010101010100√2. This means that every integer can be expressed in base √2 without the need of a decimal point."
< 1288590907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This.
< 1288590929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sounds quite comfortable for hand-counting.
< 1288590937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Gorgeous.
< 1288590944 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lordy
< 1288590968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I suggest it be done right to left.
< 1288590983 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: otay
< 1288590985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, 1101| on hands where | is right edge of hands = 1011_sqrt(2)
< 1288590993 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1288591009 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I work binary on my fingers from right to left
< 1288591021 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pinky on my right hand has a value of 1
< 1288591037 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the pinky on my left, a value of 128
< 1288591183 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bases are for the weak! i use pure numbers
< 1288591223 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what else is for the weak?
< 1288591230 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CORPOREAL FORMS
< 1288591258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: SO DID YOU DEBUG MY CODE
< 1288591307 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got it all figured out, man
< 1288591313 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm going to sleep
< 1288591315 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night
< 1288591315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: DARN
< 1288591319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: HAVE A BAD NIGHT
< 1288591325 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1288591335 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1288591827 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288592759 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288593748 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288593840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did you just DETERMINE the capital of Spain?" --http://www.viruscomix.com/page490.html
< 1288593855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with that -- and a broken boot sector, too -- I leave you.
< 1288593859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1288593881 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288593895 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288595219 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288597577 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inb4 negabinary
< 1288597606 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: i never thought i'd meet another person who counts binary on their fingers, but then i realized what channel i'm in ;)
< 1288597618 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use palms towards me though, so right thumb is LSB
< 1288598399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1288598400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288603758 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288604506 0 :Quadlex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288604552 0 :Quadlex!~quadlex@li23-6.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288604841 0 :Quadlex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288605101 0 :Quadlex!~quadlex@li23-6.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288606460 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-106.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288607816 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1288608016 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925108878.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288608665 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288608815 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288608948 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288611866 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1288612128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288613567 0 :ais523!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288613837 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1288614012 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288614233 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288615038 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288615226 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
< 1288615241 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288615427 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288615619 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1288615630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1288615851 0 :fizzie!~fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288616452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288623364 0 :ais523!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288624501 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth is configuring which program should open a given file type so hard in gnome? There is a checkbox to change default when selecting "open with". Thats all. No place to remove apps from that list for example.
< 1288624550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I resorted to editing the underlying .ini-style config file
< 1288624759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other somewhat related issue: wine likes to steal associations for stuff like *.jpg, *.txt and so on for the included wine-notepad, wine-browser and so on. And keeps adding them back even if you remove them. Disabling that took some work as well.
< 1288624815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither thing would be easy for a novice-user. Things like this are probably why we haven't yet seen the "year of the linux desktop". Heh.
< 1288624823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw, hi ais523
< 1288624887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can open Nautilus, select a file of given type, do right-click + properties + "open with"; that gives you a list (with add/remove/reset options) for that file type.
< 1288624893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there's some central place, though.
< 1288624935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hi
< 1288624936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm pretty sure there is no central place. I found one for KDE though.
< 1288624939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the middle of teaching my students atm
< 1288624944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one at a time, at 12-minute intervals
< 1288624946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah ok
< 1288624951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, java?
< 1288624953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably I'll do loads of talking up to but not including :24
< 1288624955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, java
< 1288624963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC's open for me to check up on in the gaps in between
< 1288624971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1288624994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, won't take your time with fea^W^W^Wstuff then!
< 1288625010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^W = delete last word
< 1288625019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's "ais523, won't take your stuff then"
< 1288625027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh right, haven't slept for over 24h
< 1288625030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is presumably correct, if not what you meant to say
< 1288625034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why avoid sleep for that long?
< 1288625052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not intentional, trust me. I had an exam this morning so...
< 1288625059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just couldn't sleep this night
< 1288625065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sleeping before it would have been a good idea?
< 1288625079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, I tried but didn't work
< 1288625085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't*
< 1288625629 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288626241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the exam about, anyway?
< 1288627103 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.14 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288627147 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh*
< 1288627164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If people weren't so afraid of following instructions, things would be much easier
< 1288627167 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some printer wasn't working
< 1288627187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I "fixed" it by following prompts that were on the screen and choosing to change the paper tray that it used
< 1288627393 0 :GregorR!~gregor@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288627420 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest55736
< 1288627525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guests can only watch the chat
< 1288627737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55736: stop impersonating Gregor!
< 1288627748 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest395
< 1288627778 0 :Guest55736!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1288627792 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't have my BNC log in for me when it doesn't know my nickserv password :P
< 1288628172 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mumbles
< 1288628183 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good afternoon :)
< 1288628486 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288628687 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288630070 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-1-23.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288630183 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288630228 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288630527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288630766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288630793 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.14 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288631083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what was the exam about, anyway? <-- computer networks
< 1288631137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I "fixed" it by following prompts that were on the screen and choosing to change the paper tray that it used <-- do you seriously expect people to read any dialogue boxes?
< 1288631172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't a dialog box, it was a message on the printer
< 1288631174 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah
< 1288631203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wish people did
< 1288631232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that is even less likely
< 1288631254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what did you "fix"?
< 1288631330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switched the printer to tray 2
< 1288631361 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ->
< 1288631469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288632681 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288632819 0 :Guest395!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your printer-fixing prowess is unohyou'regone never mind.
< 1288632957 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: omghaahhahaohwow
< 1288634494 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288634863 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1288634868 0 :Guest395!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1288634893 0 :GregorR!~gregor@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288634915 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest7928
< 1288635034 0 :Guest7928!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1288635240 0 :cpressey!~cpressey@12.116.117.150 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288635426 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :11 days since last oerjan sighting | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | DEAD SERIOUS | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1288635535 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's probably on vacation
< 1288635541 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dead
< 1288635555 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in a well.
< 1288635568 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or on vacation, dead in a well.
< 1288635590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The things people do for fun nowadays.
< 1288635652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288635898 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288636083 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288636083 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1288636358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288636497 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288637147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288637361 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does my AC adapter smell like burning solder ...
< 1288637533 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parfum du overload
< 1288637932 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1176439161.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288638830 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288638850 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a good thing?
< 1288638876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:15:01 why on earth is configuring which program should open a given file type so hard in gnome? There is a checkbox to change default when selecting "open with". Thats all. No place to remove apps from that list for example.
< 1288638876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:15:50 I resorted to editing the underlying .ini-style config file
< 1288638876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:19:19 Other somewhat related issue: wine likes to steal associations for stuff like *.jpg, *.txt and so on for the included wine-notepad, wine-browser and so on. And keeps adding them back even if you remove them. Disabling that took some work as well.
< 1288638876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:20:15 Neither thing would be easy for a novice-user. Things like this are probably why we haven't yet seen the "year of the linux desktop". Heh.
< 1288638879 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288638882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal people don't configure their apps.
< 1288638886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal people don't use Wine.
< 1288638895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wine doing that sucks, and Gnome's feature could be more obvious,
< 1288638901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is not a problem for "normal people".
< 1288638930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1288638943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to see you; haven't in a while
< 1288639032 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real users don't use linux either
< 1288639037 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just go with plan9
< 1288639046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: i swear, i had my pitchfork out
< 1288639051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you totally redeemed yourself
< 1288639053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz++
< 1288639074 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if they are able to manage bootloader, I can allow them to use their own OSes
< 1288639145 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you were scared about what? microsoft windows? rofl
< 1288639156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: BSDs or, hell, OS X :)
< 1288639239 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I give this book (http://www.amazon.com/Purely-Functional-Structures-Chris-Okasaki/dp/0521663504) a try?
< 1288639250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Jackoz: i swear, i had my pitchfork out <-- BSD joke right?
< 1288639257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no.
< 1288639262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: YES!
< 1288639266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: Chris Okasaki is wonderful
< 1288639274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, worked as one anyway
< 1288639283 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about buying it, now you convinced me
< 1288639302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: The examples in the book use a version of ML (not OCaml), too, so you probably won't have much trouble reading them.
< 1288639315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Laziness is done with a little ad hoc language extension, heh... He does give equivalents in Haskell though.)
< 1288639331 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: another dialect? they should be all quite similar
< 1288639339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: Standard ML
< 1288639345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original that your poseur OCaml is derived from ;)
< 1288639359 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh SML, btw laziness shouldn't be so hard to implement
< 1288639378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: yeah he just uses uh $x to denote lazy x i think
< 1288639382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure he actually implemented it
< 1288639382 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288639387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why would you want to *run* code?!?!?
< 1288639394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're theoreticians! pfft!
< 1288639404 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what I was wondering is if he will talk about complex things, cause easy ones are already enough mastered
< 1288639451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: I've never heard of anyone who doesn't recommend it :) I haven't read the whole thing myself but I've read parts and a lot of other things Chris Okasaki has written, and I've heard many, many recommendations from cool people, so.
< 1288639482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: You could always click that "look inside" link and get a selection of probably 5 of the most useless pages. :P
< 1288639492 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok, you've been enough convincing again.. since this kind of books is usually not so much cheap :)
< 1288639511 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just clicked the "look-rapidshare-inside" big red button
< 1288639518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, CS books are... impressively expensive.
< 1288639519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1288639532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz: I couldn't read a whole book on a computer.
< 1288639537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to at least print it out.
< 1288639611 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither, I definetely love the flavour of paper when I hold a book, but before spending some money a peek is needed
< 1288639746 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I bought a pivot monitor just to have some comfort in reading books
< 1288639939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need an eBook reader that doesn't suck ass.
< 1288639950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Gregor will convince me to get one of those iREXs.
< 1288639958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IREX.
< 1288639979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As publicly announced, IREX Technologies is no longer trading and this website has been permanently closed."
< 1288639981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Never mind!
< 1288640009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They went bankrupt because of the FCC :P
< 1288640110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:33:39 Your printer-fixing prowess is unohyou'regone never mind.
< 1288640113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut
< 1288640125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You switched back to Gregor and there's no record of anyone joining or /nicking in the interim in the logs
< 1288640139 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, don't get an IREX :P
< 1288640151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MORE IMPORTANT: EXPLAIN THIS MYSTERY
< 1288640154 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288640156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:09:08 --- nick: Gregor -> Guest395
< 1288640156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:09:38 --- nick: Guest55736 -> Gregor
< 1288640168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[time passes, no log discontinuity, no nicks to Guest395, no joins of that nick either]
< 1288640169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then
< 1288640172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:33:39 Your printer-fixing prowess is unohyou'regone never mind.
< 1288640174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAAAAAAT
< 1288640184 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 1) I accidentally had two systems logging in and to set my nick, 2) My BNC doesn't know my nickserv pass.
< 1288640199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, oh I see.
< 1288640200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was
< 1288640202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor -> GuestX
< 1288640205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GuestX -> Gregor
< 1288640213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You broke my brain with your numbers.
< 1288640255 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181131129.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288640665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm a bit confused about "unohyou'regone never mind" though
< 1288640678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try applying the splitting engine.;
< 1288640681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/;$//
< 1288640698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1288640779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288640824 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288640853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doyouthinktextwrittenlikethisishardtoreadornot?
< 1288640878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not very. And besides, it was a non-word three words.
< 1288640882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*non-word and three
< 1288640891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes
< 1288640901 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you do anything more on the boot sector that went into protected mode?
< 1288640910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just generalised the issue
< 1288640918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I am still working on it; currently, the issue is that it doesn't actually load the kernel.
< 1288640926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: This makes *no sense whatsoever*.
< 1288640969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybeyourenteredthenextsector,thatisrunoutofbytesintheMBR?
< 1288640996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If I run out of bytes in the MBR my padding would be negative and it would not assemble. No: It is 512 bytes exactly. The issue is that the BIOS interrupt somehow does not load the kernel.
< 1288641004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code is only 208 bytes or so, anyway.
< 1288641031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how easy was "maybeyourentered" to parse, did you need to backtrack from "you're" to "you en[tered]"?
< 1288641055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is beyond ridiculous.
< 1288641060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true
< 1288641121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I haven't slept for about 34 hours though
< 1288641146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just couldn't sleep this night. Sigh... some sort of temporary insomnia I guess.
< 1288641154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wtf -- I couldn't either
< 1288641170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Admittedly it was about 8am when I started sleepcrastinating and actually went to bed.
< 1288641182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it was 12 am and nothing had happened.
< 1288641191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why it is almost 7 pm now and I've just woken up.
< 1288641196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, am, that is [0,12) right?
< 1288641203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it [12,24) ?
< 1288641205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*12 pm
< 1288641211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never keep them apart
< 1288641213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From midnight onwards:
< 1288641235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 am, 1 am, 2 am, 3 am, 4 am, 5 am, 6 am, 7 am, 8 am, 9 am, 10 am, 11 am, 12 pm, 1 pm, 2 pm, 3 pm, 4 pm, 5 pm, 6 pm, 7 pm, 8 pm, 9 pm, 10 pm, 11 pm
< 1288641239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I couldn't sleep in the day, had an exam
< 1288641246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during*
< 1288641257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holidays here. Although ending rapidly..
< 1288641284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holiday week here, but only for high school and lower
< 1288641303 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think TeX contains a lot of lies --- there is one error message that says "Missing { inserted", but actually it isn't inserting anything; what it does is skip the { if there is one, and otherwise displays the error message.
< 1288641322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, has the innovative name of höstlov (en:autumn holiday)
< 1288641339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's called "half term" here.
< 1288641342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, high school and lower.
< 1288641353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is the current week iirc
< 1288641364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think it means "I'm pretending there was a { here."
< 1288641381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was last week, but today is ~Teacher training day~
< 1288641385 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, that would be a better way of writing it, in my opinion.
< 1288641390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for me it is called "exam week". Oh well, I have more days than usual free at least.
< 1288641399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh those
< 1288641409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure they just eat biscuits all day.
< 1288641415 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: at the risk of being obvious, it sounds like the problem is that you're doing something wrong
< 1288641421 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't such during university you know
< 1288641429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What, eat biscuits?
< 1288641430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes, I considered that.
< 1288641448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: However I have directly ripped off cpressey's code again almost word for word and it *just doesn't work*.
< 1288641453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, skipped teaching due to teachers getting taught
< 1288641463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh, yeah, I know that ...
< 1288641469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a moron.
< 1288641472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but biscuits, short supply too
< 1288641488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://sprunge.us/eKMD
< 1288641504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Includes magical debug code! After "boot!" you see the first few bytes of the brave new world^W^W^Wloaded kernel.
< 1288641507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are zeroes, as it stands.
< 1288641514 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I have some disk code here, but I don't know how it works, and I don't know if it actually supports a >1 sector kernel image
< 1288641518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the black market biscuits are too expensive for most students.
< 1288641526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Theft.
< 1288641543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, the BIOS call can load N sectors with a parameter for reasonable N.
< 1288641543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean like, raid the cafeterias?
< 1288641552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure. Or whatever shops are nearby.
< 1288641600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, campus is located at the edge of the city. Modern university. Not one of the old ones spread out over half the town centre
< 1288641625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Psht!
< 1288641648 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what does dx=0 mean here? my code uses mov dx,0x0180 before all the disk calls
< 1288641653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gather that Oxford is like an unkillable patch of weeds. :)
< 1288641660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, should be fixable once the time travel lab gets some actual results
< 1288641675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DH = head number
< 1288641675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DL = drive number (bit 7 set for hard disk)
< 1288641693 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1167928439.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288641703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you read from the 0x80th head (??????????) of drive 1.
< 1288641716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can imagine (wrt Oxford)
< 1288641720 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, head 1 of first hard drive
< 1288641734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oh, right.
< 1288641738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, I'm on a floppy.
< 1288641749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Also, *pretty* sure that DL gets initialised by the BIOS.
< 1288641755 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 0th hard drive? or "the" boot drive? not sure which is which here
< 1288641760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The worst thing is that *this* *worked*.
< 1288641772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: If I filled the floppy with /dev/urandom, it'd do crazy shit.
< 1288641778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DL = drive number (bit 7 set for hard disk) <-- if not set, floppy?
< 1288641778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: If I filled it with /dev/zero, the same thing every time.
< 1288641784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: So *why* is it failing now???
< 1288641787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dunno. Guess so.
< 1288641791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about cds then? they use something else?
< 1288641797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDs are weird.
< 1288641805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, now I remember
< 1288641805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DL gets initialized by the BIOS (at least in Bochs, it does, anyways).
< 1288641807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think BIOSes can do them for you.
< 1288641809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :el torrito or something?
< 1288641836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288641838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :El Torito
< 1288641847 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could it be that you're mistaking the address where the stuff is loaded?
< 1288641855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why that strange name I wonders
< 1288641857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder*
< 1288641862 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288641866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, don't change a /me to a /msg in the middle
< 1288641903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to legend, the El Torito CD/DVD extension to ISO 9660 gained its name because its design originated in an El Torito restaurant in Irvine, California.[2] The initial two authors were Curtis Stevens, of Phoenix Technologies, and Stan Merkin, of IBM.[2]
< 1288641910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :El Torito (Spanish for "the little bull") is a Mexican restaurant chain located primarily in California, with a small number of outlets in Oregon, Arizona, and Japan. They have a total of 69 outlets.[1] El Torito is one of several Mexican cuisine restaurants operated by Real Mex Restaurants. The executive chef is Pepe Lopez.
< 1288641910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Founded in 1954, they claim to be "a pioneer in the California full service Mexican casual dining restaurant segment. Leveraging more than 50 years of operational experience, El Torito is currently the largest Mexican restaurant brand in California in terms of number of restaurants and operates franchise locations in Japan, Turkey and the Middle East."[2]
< 1288641936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1288641951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck OFF Jimbo, I'm not giving you any money.
< 1288641955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the TRIP test allow that if I write C-TeX, I can make the error messages different? Or only the help messages?
< 1288641974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's also:
< 1288641974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what?
< 1288641975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Rock Ridge Interchange Protocol (RRIP, IEEE P1282) is an extension to the ISO 9660 volume format, commonly used on CDROM and DVD media, which adds POSIX file system semantics. The availability of these extension properties allows for better integration with Unix and Unix-like operating systems.
< 1288641975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RRIP was developed by Andrew Young of Young Minds, Inc. in the early 1990s. The standard takes its name from the fictional town Rock Ridge in Mel Brooks' film Blazing Saddles.
< 1288641977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know.
< 1288641994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know what rock ridge is, though I never thought about the reason for the name
< 1288642031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, Joilet. Is it named after Joilet, Arkansas or what?
< 1288642033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1288642047 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I don't know
< 1288642056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1288642059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange quit
< 1288642067 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would remember the name of the fictional town in blazing saddles?
< 1288642098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's Microsoft; probably named after jolly toilets.
< 1288642106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, a creepily fanish fan!
< 1288642116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Andrew Young
< 1288642135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *shudder* that made me think of MS Bob
< 1288642149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope the MS Bob recycle bin was a toilet.
< 1288642153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Flush"
< 1288642156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, google?
< 1288642162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't be :P
< 1288642181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Microsoft originally owned the domain name bob.com, but traded it to Bob Kerstein for the windows2000.com domain name."
< 1288642185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a strategy.
< 1288642189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if he had been called Dave...
< 1288642206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Bob's install images are used as "padding" on the original Windows XP install CDs as an anti-piracy measure."
< 1288642269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know, you could easily do this on your computer. 10 minutes max: 7 minutes to find good images to use. 1 minute to create a new theme and symlink the unchanged stuff in. half a minute to put new icons in, and then 20 seconds to change to that theme
< 1288642277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the toilet in gnome I meant)
< 1288642294 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288642300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't use Gnome :P
< 1288642313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, which DE/WM do you currently use?
< 1288642322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xfce. Admittedly it uses the same icons.
< 1288642331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, the only time I ever see the Wastebasket is in Thunar :P
< 1288642355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the wastebasket? Oh you must mean the toilet. hah
< 1288642370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv old-data ~/.shitter
< 1288642378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know they can't draw a toilet
< 1288642380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange
< 1288642406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do the artist always screw up toilet icons so they look more like paperbins
< 1288642436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Linux users don't leave the room; they've never seen a toilet.
< 1288642449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although they'll need to change their XXXXXXXXL-size nappy soon.
< 1288642466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow did not need that mental image.
< 1288642478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: SO HAVE YOU FIGURED IT OUT YET
< 1288642501 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1288642549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I concluded in terms of "hi I'm a mac..." openbsd would be the linux "tronman" but with a tinfoil armour instead (one size too small) and a tie added.
< 1288642596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tie would be rather badly put on
< 1288642614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and with really puffed up cheeks, red in the face with flame
< 1288642619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps holding a flamethrower
< 1288642623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh definitely
< 1288642653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also there'd be little patches where there's no armour, but they'd have "ONLY TWO REMOTE HOLES" scribbled on.
< 1288642686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when he decides to talk to someone -- his head is in the armour too -- he opens it up and a swarm of bees attack him and he dies. Then he holds up a flag saying "I said in the DEFAULT installation!".
< 1288642691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. but I didn't like to draw such a mental NSFW picture (considering where those holes are...)
< 1288642704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1288642746 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSFVI
< 1288642747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@^@^@^@^@^@Uªôéúÿÿÿ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@
< 1288642749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS INEXPLICABLE
< 1288642766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, Not Safe For Vertical Integration?
< 1288642775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah there is a clear pattern to that!
< 1288642782 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Safe for Vorpal's Imagination
< 1288642792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, oh, touche indeed
< 1288642801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-----------------------------------------------------------+
< 1288642801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| IMPORTANT: PLEASE DON'T MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THIS PROJECT! |
< 1288642801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-----------------------------------------------------------+
< 1288642811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("The system saves every version of every project, so nothing is ever lost." Aww.)
< 1288642821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where is that from?
< 1288642833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMeta/JS
< 1288642859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it looks almost like frama-c, which is french which could explain why they use "project" to refer to "immutable processed version of the AST"
< 1288642878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, they mean "projection".
< 1288642880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something.
< 1288642889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as read in is one project, then value analysis creates a new project
< 1288642902 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes probably but the result is rather weird :P
< 1288642934 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the english is quite good elsewhere in general. Just a few small things that stands out as odd, like this
< 1288643011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't find any desc on ometa/js when googling, just interactive "try it out online" kind of things
< 1288643024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what is it
< 1288643024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that is what ometa/js is
< 1288643027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js = javascript
< 1288643032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and ometa?
< 1288643036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tinlizzie.org/ometa/
< 1288643055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a meta-meta-parser-framework-meta object framework parser meta meta.
< 1288643063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, any good? Or just yet another one?
< 1288643076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Mu.
< 1288643086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a Viewpoints Research Institute project.
< 1288643087 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well it said programming language on the page
< 1288643090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I meant
< 1288643095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did not.
< 1288643102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yet another programming language, or one that stands out?"
< 1288643111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait indeed it didn't
< 1288643114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OMeta is a new object-oriented language for pattern matching"
< 1288643125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, object oriented language fooled me
< 1288643145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's half-research, half lovely VPRI madness.
< 1288643173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what else have they done? Trying to remember what they are famous for
< 1288643200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Alan Kay works there, and you may have heard of COLA/idris/pepsi/...
< 1288643210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*idst
< 1288643217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pepsi certainly but not in this context I think
< 1288643237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://piumarta.com/software/cola/ has some information.
< 1288643245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cola (aka Idst, Jolt, the SODA languages, &c.) is an ongoing project to create a springboard for investigating new computing paradigms. Everything in it is late-bound, the intention being that any paradigm (existing or yet to be invented, formal complexity notwithstanding) be easily and efficiently mapped to it and made available to the user. It is a small part (the implementation vehicle) of the reinventing computing project.
< 1288643263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very... meta?
< 1288643322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: COLA is -- uh, I think "COLA" is the word for this component -- a Smalltalk-esque language on top of it all. VPRI have used it to do insane things such as:
< 1288643333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know how in the IP (at least v4) RFC, it has a diagram of a packet?
< 1288643342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They defined their packet structure by:
< 1288643348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I got stuck at figuring out what "be easily and efficiently mapped to it and made available to the user" actually meant in practical terms
< 1288643349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Writing a parser for the ASCII diagrams
< 1288643353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Pasting the diagram in from the RFC
< 1288643354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it parses fine
< 1288643361 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh
< 1288643380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, I heard about that
< 1288643396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wasn't there some language with a name starting with E that supported that?
< 1288643401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tl;dr user-as-programming, meta, etc.
< 1288643406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E? Uhh...
< 1288643410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not E itself?
< 1288643415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Epigram?
< 1288643420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Epigram does that
< 1288643420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah yes!
< 1288643421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that.
< 1288643423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1288643424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong.
< 1288643428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to rack my brains...
< 1288643428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have confused it
< 1288643431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, might have *dreamt it*
< 1288643432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sort of rings a bell for that but...
< 1288643447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read something about visual structs and then about epigram quite recently
< 1288643455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Whatever, anyway, tl;dr: VPRI is Alan Kay's organisation dedicated to being entirely too awesome on a regular basis.
< 1288643491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigram_%28programming_language%29 seems to have quite fancy decls anyway
< 1288643497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be that I confused it with
< 1288643507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, Epigram 1 is... queer.
< 1288643518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Epigram *2* we're not entirely sure is a language. Or has syntax.)
< 1288643523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or can be executed.)
< 1288643530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, awesome!
< 1288643530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or is even thinkable of.)
< 1288643540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we've been trying to figure it out since, what, 2005?
< 1288643542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh
< 1288643549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means it must intersect with feather
< 1288643558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, it's just extreme vapourware.
< 1288643562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff happens, but at an amazingly glacial rate.
< 1288643563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question is now, if it is a subset, superset, or just boring intersection
< 1288643572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean like feather?
< 1288643576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Connor keeps deciding to chuck things out and rewrite whole swathes of the language.
< 1288643584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when it turns out that whoops, that won't work.
< 1288643596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, second system syndrome?
< 1288643650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's academia. The whole thing is practically an exercise in third system syndrome.
< 1288643680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I'm sure VPRI is awesome but it is a bit too meta to make any sense when I'm as sleep deprived as I am.
< 1288643700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, it doesn't make any sense when you're awake either.
< 1288643701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as long as you can produce papers on it at a steady rate
< 1288643719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not sure if that is good, bad or lacks emotional value
< 1288643728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meta.
< 1288643744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wow, I would never have guessed! ;P
< 1288643754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, VPRI don't need to write papers, they have FUNDING!
< 1288643765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.viewpointsresearch.org/html/sponsors.htm
< 1288643766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant for epigram mostly
< 1288643773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNF, Intel, Motorola, HP, Nokia.
< 1288643781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in the past: ARPA, Xerox PARC, Atari, Apple, Disney.
< 1288643787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NFS
< 1288643788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NSF
< 1288643820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, those companies would want you to get results. Not getting results = no more funding. So they can't go too far into >1 system syndrome
< 1288643836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VPRI get... few "results" as such.
< 1288643851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, then why do intel still fund them
< 1288643857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They did Squeak Etoys and Croquet.
< 1288643866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they *do* write papers and stuff.
< 1288643871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uh, :)
< 1288643877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Croquet... what was that now again
< 1288643896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :familiar, bell is definitely ringing, but there is all echo around here
< 1288643899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A not-very-good 3D Smalltalk environment thing and oh god Sgeo is going to pipe up.
< 1288643901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no clue from where
< 1288643910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's an open project; VPRI aren't responsible for most of the badness. :)
< 1288643912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he is not in the channel atm :P
< 1288643935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and what did etoys do...
< 1288643964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.linux.com/var/uploads/Image/articles/130014-1.png
< 1288643979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VPRI's official goal is "lol, computers + learning".
< 1288643983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, an awful lot of it is just awesome shit.
< 1288644002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah. That explains so much about the awful colour theme of squeak
< 1288644018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Etoys is an addon. :p
< 1288644028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, even without that it is quite... colourful
< 1288644029 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm missing a kernel image, obviously, but otherwise it does seem to me that it successfully loads some garbage and jumps into it
< 1288644054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well *that* it does not do, considering I put an infinite loop in there.
< 1288644073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: How about I give you a .tgz?
< 1288644074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something is up.
< 1288644079 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after removing the infinite loop obviously :P
< 1288644081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, Disney.
< 1288644097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they are behind sqeuak?!
< 1288644101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :squeak*
< 1288644111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was derived directly from Smalltalk-80 by a group at Apple Computer that included some of the original Smalltalk-80 developers. Its development was continued by the same group at Walt Disney Imagineering, where it was intended for use in internal Disney projects.
< 1288644121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The colour scheme is just because fuck you. :)
< 1288644126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1288644149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it isn't just the colours, it isn't just the shape of elements, it isn't just the icons. It is all three together.
< 1288644162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is pretty bad.
< 1288644164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://filebin.ca/eaxjwt/tempo.tar
< 1288644175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what, we agree on a UI being bad?
< 1288644181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Smalltalk-80 was much classier: http://tedkaehler.weather-dimensions.com/us/ted/resume/st80release-lic2.jpg
< 1288644218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, possibly only due to 1 bit per pixel from the look of that image...
< 1288644236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You could easily add a few highlights and it'd still be nice.
< 1288644239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of colour, that is.
< 1288644246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, it would even be nicer
< 1288644255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.abclinuxu.cz/images/clanky/krivanek/smalltalk-80-2.png
< 1288644256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More.
< 1288644258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like, make non-active window borders dark grey or something
< 1288644266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.abclinuxu.cz/images/clanky/krivanek/smalltalk-80-6.png
< 1288644276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no colours?
< 1288644282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's the early 80s.
< 1288644300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not common even with greyscale then
< 1288644309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ?
< 1288644326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/wolfgang.kreutzer/cosc205/images/stShot1.gif Early Squeak, basically Smalltalk 80 + colours.
< 1288644326 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is b&w, not even 4 bit greyscale or such
< 1288644331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly not very nice colours.
< 1288644344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Macintosh was 1-bit in 84.
< 1288644355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that actually looks better than modern squeak...
< 1288644355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/wolfgang.kreutzer/cosc205/images/stShot12.gif FUCKING OW MY EYES
< 1288644376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: So have you fixed it yet?!?!?!?/1
< 1288644381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I hope this can be blamed on gamma or something
< 1288644391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IT CAN'T AIEEEEEE
< 1288644395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ouch
< 1288644398 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope, but I seem to have discovered how to connect gdb to bochs
< 1288644411 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, sounds like quite a feat
< 1288644419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bochs is designed to do that :P
< 1288644432 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: doesn't make it less of a feat :P
< 1288644435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought it had a built in debugger?
< 1288644437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well
< 1288644442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything with bochs is a feat
< 1288644446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah.
< 1288644462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time I think "Oh, I should use bochs" I start crying.
< 1288644485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" It can also be used to run older software – such as PC games – which will not run on non-compatible, or too fast computers." --Wikipedia
< 1288644487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"It
< 1288644492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine any game wanting to run on a computer THAT slow!
< 1288644493 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik, the built-in debugging amounts to having a grayed-out menu option for displaying memory contents, and a box that displays the registers (in real-time! making it too fast to see anything)
< 1288644500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288644553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for recording perfect frame timing?
< 1288644581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because you no longer need a software that allows you to go back to previous frame if you screwed up!
< 1288644614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, you could use bochs for tool-assisted speedruns.
< 1288644621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get a whole hour to decide what input to give each frame.
< 1288644623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes what I said basically
< 1288644634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1288644637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, lets be fair. 45 minutes max on a modern computer
< 1288644675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably could be as little as 40 minutes, but I doubt less than that
< 1288644883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.viewpointsresearch.org/html/work/pichri.htm: "For example, the Wikipedia is impressive in its number of entries and that it has been made and sustained by the larger Internet community, but its content is mostly hyperlinked text with a few pictures and formulas. It is very far from rich dynamic computer media and from the kind of content that most learners need." <-- because there are only so
< 1288644883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : many ways to graphically illustrate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_a_disjunct (first result on clicking random article)
< 1288644886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^
< 1288644908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and?
< 1288644915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VPRI are focused primarily on children learning
< 1288644929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, wikipedia isn't just that though, so bad example maybe
< 1288644954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh:
< 1288644955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I blame java and bloated, resource-hogging platforms. The disk drive has increased in speed quite a bit in the last 10 years and is still the slowest thing in a computer (excluding the user). If we wrote all programs in efficient languages like C and ASM, our computers should be thousands of times faster than we perceive them to be today. The reliance on interpreted languages and bloated platforms (even the browser is considered a platform nowad
< 1288644955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ays and is mega-bloated if you ask me) but people continue to think that the advancements of hardware will make up for the lazy and bloated programming solutions that people come up with nowadays."
< 1288644958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comment on the Loper OS blog.
< 1288644964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because as we all know
< 1288644970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) GNOME is incredibly lightweight and speedy, and
< 1288644975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) Smalltalk was impossibly slow.
< 1288644982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1288644987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what idiot wrote that?
< 1288645003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://badcheese.com/; he was kind enough to leave a name and URL so we can all know to not listen to him in the future.
< 1288645004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, gnome is not slow enough to cause any annoyance at least.
< 1288645013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNOME has got better :)
< 1288645021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's certainly not super-C-speedy, that's for sure.
< 1288645022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I used KDE back when GNOME sucked
< 1288645033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course, but as long as it is fast enough, who cares
< 1288645045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, see http://www.loper-os.org/?p=300, the post on which it is a comment :)
< 1288645069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNOME is not quite fast enough for me to like it. It is okay though.
< 1288645071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 4 is slower.
< 1288645088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, metacity or compiz?
< 1288645097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I found metacity far more responsive
< 1288645111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used both.
< 1288645116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1288645129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, existing DEs have far greater problems than speed.
< 1288645141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, even on my old sempron 3300+ gnome is fast enough that I don't notice any speed difference compared to, say, twm
< 1288645169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can click the mouse on ANY area that you can see in the editor and the cursor will go there and allow you to start typing.
< 1288645169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you position yourself at the beginning of the line and hit the left arrow, you will not budge.
< 1288645169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you position yourself at the end of the line and hit the right arrow, you will keep moving right
< 1288645169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is how IntelliJ IDEA works by default."
< 1288645176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts IntelliJ IDEA on his list of "weird things".
< 1288645186 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1288645193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ?
< 1288645199 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard of that thing
< 1288645209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually that sounds almost like kate in block mode
< 1288645216 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, apart from the arrow at start of line
< 1288645251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is useful to move and copy rectangular blocks rather than every letter between two points
< 1288645256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such things
< 1288645271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I use it every now and then, try it out if you never used it
< 1288645294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it extensively when I used TextMate and I have developed a healthy hate of every other editor ever because I can't figure out how to do it quickly.
< 1288645299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With TextMate it's just alt+drag.
< 1288645319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's a mode because it interacts with copy and paste too
< 1288645323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even from other apps
< 1288645324 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'd just like to say, in Python, string.upper() should totally be a magical attribute (str.upper) that hides the method, because that would be so pythonic, i.e. conceptually incoherent
< 1288645343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in that, what pasting a multi-line thing does changes with this mode
< 1288645353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Also, x.sort.
< 1288645353 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to your regularly scheduled IntelliJ IDEA wtf'ing
< 1288645358 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes totally
< 1288645358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print x.sort
< 1288645359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print x
< 1288645361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay!
< 1288645363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so convenient!
< 1288645372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, __upper__!
< 1288645376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no reason)
< 1288645379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, and the nicest thing about it in TextMate:
< 1288645380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just more... python)
< 1288645390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you alt-drag vertically across a certain bit and type, it *adds to all those lines*.
< 1288645397 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about every method you could define has a __methodname__ counterpart
< 1288645415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal:
< 1288645420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b|lah
< 1288645420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q|uux
< 1288645420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a|sdf
< 1288645420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a|brt
< 1288645420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------------
< 1288645421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bX|lah
< 1288645422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qX|uux
< 1288645424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aX|sdf
< 1288645426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aX|brt
< 1288645428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After typing "X".
< 1288645431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is *insanely* useful.
< 1288645445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, inded
< 1288645447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed*
< 1288645451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does kate do that?
< 1288645458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, let me try
< 1288645509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, alas it does something else. Anyway it is the two-mode thingy
< 1288645515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah!
< 1288645526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still the features somewhat overlap, none has all the features of the other one
< 1288645533 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume leaden will do this?
< 1288645546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Or if it doesn't, amend will :)
< 1288645553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, amend?
< 1288645564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one was that
< 1288645568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds familiar
< 1288645573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaden is what I call prereleases of amend because calling anything amend that does not live up to its name is sinful.
< 1288645650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically leaden is amend before it turns into a gigantic beast worthy of emacs complexity :)
< 1288645704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I'm sorry to inform you that it is my duty to inform you that you have exceeded the names reserved / actually used limit. To prevent phase space depletion you are now forbidden from naming new things until you implemented at least 4 of the current reserved names.
< 1288645726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH
< 1288645856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could also send in form 14c(32)b9 in three copies to request a release of some of your reserved names. That is three copies per name to release.
< 1288645900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you would get a confirmation form 11t(53)h14 in return to sign and send back
< 1288646426 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, when you're testing and it doesn't work, do you compile with the code that sets the real sector to find the kernel image or do you compile with mov cl,3; mov ch,3; which is the wrong values?
< 1288646448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the values are wrong?
< 1288646455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worked them out using cpressey's bootloader code.
< 1288646472 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if I replace that with mov cx,KERNEL_START, it boots and halts at 0x8001
< 1288646477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Feel free to fix the values :P Ignore KERNEL_SECTORS btw, it's way too big to work with the bios call, just pretend the kernel is 2 sectors or something.
< 1288646485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: don't you mean mov cl?
< 1288646512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uh, wow, you're right.
< 1288646517 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, same thing, except it doesn't rely on ch already being 0 from before
< 1288646537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: aren't all the registers defined to be zero on boot? apart from dl
< 1288646563 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on boot, but I don't want to do dataflow analysis on your boot loader to find out if that's the value still lying around in ch when it gets there
< 1288646576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1288646590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i'm planning to do the a20 line properly, so i'm space-optimising to make room for that :)
< 1288646695 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could skip it and do A20 in the second stage/the kernel :P
< 1288646712 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: NO IPOSSIBLE
< 1288646718 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be done in the boot block!
< 1288646731 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refuse to give reasons for this
< 1288646737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey sure hates me
< 1288646748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but i want my kernel to be in a nice environment when i get to it!
< 1288646751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides i have space :D
< 1288646777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What I *am* worried about is, if I want to modify the GDT and IDT later, I have to modify them where the bootsector is, right?
< 1288646792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: So, basically, they can be about two, three hundred max, combined.
< 1288646792 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i feel half-responsible, since i had a similar idea (go into unreal mode in the bootblock)
< 1288646804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that was zzo38's idea :)
< 1288646822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he doesn't actually do it in the bootblock - that was my misrecollection
< 1288646829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288646840 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think you can change them later
< 1288646845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well, unreal mode = protected mode + more code :)
< 1288646851 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prit' much yeah
< 1288646867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you can relocate them?
< 1288646867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1288646870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems a bit pointless though
< 1288646871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh
< 1288646871 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the GDT case, you really don't need more than one data and one code segment
< 1288646884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: unless i start doing crazy shit :)
< 1288646974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: now all I have to do is have a loop so i can load more than 8.5 kilobytes of kernel
< 1288647022 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you should be checking al after int 13h, that contains the number of sectors read
< 1288647064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: erm, the only reason it'd load less than what i tell it to is if something went wrong, surely
< 1288647073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if something went wrong i'm not interested :)
< 1288647100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: presumably carry is set if al < the input al?
< 1288647105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, i retry anyway
< 1288647108 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe :)
< 1288647182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but hey, 8.5k is good enough for now :)
< 1288647185 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, there goes that afternoon.
< 1288647193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's over 17 times this bootsector!
< 1288647278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: remind me to get around to doing a higher-half kernel sometime :P
< 1288647294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, I don't need CODE_SEGMENT and DATA_SEGMENT defined inside the kernel proper, do I?
< 1288647298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're cs and ds anyway
< 1288647349 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, you only need those if you ever wanted to reset cs or ds... maybe that's relevant when you get to multitasking, but I haven't really gotten that far myself yet
< 1288647360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1288647380 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, you know them since you set up the gdt, those are just constants anyway
< 1288647443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1288647450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does blinking exist at the vga memory level?
< 1288647451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not
< 1288647469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that qemu displays my A20 error as solid black on solid white
< 1288647489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bochs displays it as flickery (not blinking, really, just *flickery*) black that seems to be grey eveyr now and then on top of grey
< 1288647497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(grey being the default colour, the "greyish white")
< 1288647506 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's magic involved that determines whether it's a high-intensity or blinking bit, or something like that
< 1288647507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, it's 0xF0 the attribute
< 1288647512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1288647513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1288647513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1288647527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solution: don't have a computer that doesn't have the A20 bios routines
< 1288647536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, just wait until I put actual A20 code in there
< 1288647580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone explain why x86 is so damn register-starved?
< 1288647619 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288648202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the VGA registers controls whether the high bit of the background color does "high intensity" or "blink".
< 1288648498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does it have a defined default?
< 1288648602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The "Unity" user interface that debuted in Ubuntu 10.10's Netbook Edition will be standard on the next version of the Ubuntu Desktop Edition, as well. Ubuntu Desktop 11.04 will replace the Linux distribution's default GNOME environment in favor of the multitouch-enabled Unity user interface, says Canonical."
< 1288648630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for GNOME Shell.
< 1288648726 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, http://wiki.osdev.org/Entering_Long_Mode_Directly
< 1288648743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah, it's
< 1288648745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: unreliable.
< 1288648775 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unreliable?
< 1288648780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's not documented.
< 1288648789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only documented way to enter long mode is via protected mode.
< 1288648798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather go through the hassle than risk things. :)
< 1288648817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't know about defaults, but according to the Interrupt List you can do ax = 1003h, bx = 0000h/0001h, int 10h to disable/enable the blink bit.
< 1288648830 0 :MigoMipo__!~John@84-217-1-23.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288648863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Woo, that works. Thanks.
< 1288648885 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, ok... well, I already have the protected mode code, so I might as well do the long mode stuff directly afterwards rather than changing the code
< 1288648893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yaeh
< 1288648895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yeah
< 1288648905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm not sure whether I want long mode or not :)
< 1288648913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: although more registers would be very, very, very, very, very, very nice...
< 1288648934 0 :MigoMipo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1288648958 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-23.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288648958 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use long mode as a simplified protected mode that accidentally also supports some 64-bit stuff
< 1288648982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: how is it simplified?
< 1288649013 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things like segmentation disappeared in long mode (however much simpler that makes it)
< 1288649039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288649055 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but other than that, I guess not simpler at all just different
< 1288649060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You still have paging though.
< 1288649076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever.
< 1288649100 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1288649155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want "documented", incidentally, the AMD doc 24593 (AMD64 Architecture Programmer's Manual, Volume 2: System Programming) has a "Long-Mode initialization example" assembly code snippet -- 4.5 pages, but well over half is comments -- that starts from real mode, goes to protected and from there to long. It's not the most elegant piece ever, and does things like CPUID checks for whether the long mode actually exists.
< 1288649176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My boot sector is now 214 bytes long.
< 1288649188 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TOO MUCH
< 1288649194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I get to fill the remaining 296 bytes!
< 1288649210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm, doesn't the idt tend to get kinda big?
< 1288649216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I misremembering?
< 1288649297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can run things in your boot sector with that empty IDT and interrupts disabled, and then in your kernel code relocate it somewhere where you have lots of space before enabling the interrupts.
< 1288649373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I *could*, yes, but the idea is sort of to not have to relocate things, just being able to modify the existing gdt and idt. :)
< 1288649382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey... How do you get the location of the GDT and IDT?
< 1288649387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to store them somewhere?
< 1288649405 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you already forgot where you put them? :)
< 1288649430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No, it's just that my kernel is compiled separately, so it can't know where the GDT and IDT are unless it can get the location somehow :)
< 1288649458 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can make that detail part of your boot loader|kernel interface
< 1288649473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: there is no such interface :)
< 1288649523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1288649525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idtr: dw 0
< 1288649525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dd 0
< 1288649528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this "limit 0, offset 0"?
< 1288649534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great -- so i have no interrupt table at all :)
< 1288649543 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, the limit is the first value (the 16-bit one)
< 1288649554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: starting to think that maybe, just *maybe*, this won't fit inside the boot sector
< 1288649558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: especially not if I do A20 the proper way
< 1288649577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, new version of Golly out, FWIW.
< 1288649585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: kay
< 1288649704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proper support for different topologies seems to be the Big Thing in it
< 1288649795 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to check the long-term evolution of the TTT with it,
< 1288649883 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288649960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SGDT and SIDT should help you.
< 1288649974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're the inverse operation of LGDT/LIDT.
< 1288649979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: TTT?
< 1288649981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah, thanks.
< 1288650006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a pattern on a tubular universe with unknown-ish long-term behaviour.
< 1288650019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Link?
< 1288650023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait, I could always just point the GDT and the IDT somewhere else in memory, right?
< 1288650033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And put stuff there in the bootloader, and then expand on it later inside my actual OS code?
< 1288650059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why not, assuming they're low enough for the 16-bit mode code to write to.
< 1288650094 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@64.231.53.240 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288650188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, OSes have to write to such a location anyway, so.
< 1288650302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, look for "Titanic Toroidal Traveler" at http://www.argentum.freeserve.co.uk/lex_t.htm
< 1288650340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A curious bit of trivia: an empty interrupt table like that is how Windows on a 286 used to switch from its protected mode back to real mode; the virtual 8086 stuff and the "proper" way to get from protected to real were only added in the 386.
< 1288650368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so just that, repeated forever horizontally?
< 1288650378 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had me at "A20 is routed through the keyboard controller"
< 1288650380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah.
< 1288650389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you didn't know that? :)
< 1288650393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: heh
< 1288650404 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not until yesterday
< 1288650407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the long-term behaviour is nearly as enigmatic as they claim, FWIW.
< 1288650422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the 286, you needed a reset; and reseting the processor via the RESET pin (from the keyboard controller, again...) was slow. But if you put in an empty interrupt table, then segfault, double-fault (due to missing interrupt handler) and triple-fault (due another missing interrupt handler) the CPU will reset a lot faster.
< 1288650432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there is a "fast a20" that skips talking to the keyboard controller, and bios stuff for it
< 1288650444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: but the proper way involves talking machine code to the keyboard port.
< 1288650462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: 8042 machine code, to be precise.
< 1288650474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, the first interrupt could be just "int 3" or anything, it doesn't need to be a fault.)
< 1288650495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wouldn't that... reboot the computer?
< 1288650529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not if you patch the place where the reset ends up in; that's in real memory.
< 1288650559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lovely
< 1288650602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently also Windows on a 386 used an invalid instruction to do a "syscall" from v86 mode, since it was the fastest way.
< 1288650791 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Golly allows the projective plane as a topology.
< 1288650791 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it breaks down.
< 1288650822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: how goes your long mode hackery? :-)
< 1288650832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I will go into long mode, just for simplicity.
< 1288650844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit on a floppy
< 1288650845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely
< 1288650867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But what about hardware task management! It's mostly gone in long mode.
< 1288650875 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just leisurely reading the system programming manual
< 1288650881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was fun. It seems that the color setting on my monitor was hella-weird.
< 1288650886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh dear, I will shoot myself.
< 1288650895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "leisurely"
< 1288650903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Task-State Segments and whatnot.
< 1288650908 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: spelling? :)
< 1288650937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and more importantly, you can't go to virtual-8086 mode from long mode.
< 1288650994 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always wondered about that - so you use virtualization to run real-mode code or something?
< 1288650998 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288651060 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "hardware task management"?
< 1288651064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Maybe you just don't run it.
< 1288651076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "64-bit Windows versions do not include NTVDM or Windows on Windows, so there is no native support for the execution of MS-DOS or 16-bit Windows applications." (Though that was for the 64-bit XP.)
< 1288651118 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I don't think I want to know.
< 1288651138 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should check how virtualization works on amd64, iirc virtualization used to rely on VM86 to run all the boot loaders etc of the guest os:es
< 1288651141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: There's a rather complicated hardware multitasking thing (based on the segment stuff; handles register saving and so on, and privileges) that's been mostly cut off in the long mode.
< 1288651143 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs the 6502
< 1288651204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, not very many operating systems actually use it.
< 1288651211 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which only works for sane boot loaders and not e.g. the OS/2 boot loader that went into unreal mode before starting the real boot loader
< 1288651219 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@69.157.45.190 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288651226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i55.tinypic.com/261dnav.gif seems to be their current plan for implementing spherical topologies.
< 1288651263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so obviously not valid it's not even funny.
< 1288651283 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288651389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, the amd-64 processors still do *have* the legacy mode with all the vm86 bits, you just can't invoke them normally from long mode. I guess the virtualization control block structures let the guest be in legacy mode.
< 1288651421 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that makes sense
< 1288651425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "To facilitate virtualization of real mode, the VMRUN instruction may legally load a guest CR0 value with PE = 0 but PG = 1"; so you can have the guest in real mode but with paging enabled.
< 1288651442 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's hilarious
< 1288651457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This processor mode behaves in every way like real mode, with the exception that paging is applied."
< 1288651472 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, OK, it takes a certain type of mind to find that amusing.
< 1288651477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: spelling? :)
< 1288651479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just
< 1288651485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading the x86 manual leisurely :D
< 1288651497 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so there IS a real boot loader out there that goes into unreal mode! cool.
< 1288651503 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yep!
< 1288651529 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not listening to you because you are just a mirror image of the OTHER Phantom_Hoover.
< 1288651542 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and OS/2 is one of the few operating systems that use more than two of x86's privilege levels ("rings")
< 1288651568 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually you have kernel mode and user mode, but OS/2 has two or three levels of kernel mode
< 1288651577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : which only works for sane boot loaders and not e.g. the OS/2 boot loader that went into unreal mode before starting the real boot loader
< 1288651585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real that unreals to load the real.
< 1288651655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm, if i go into real mode, the gdt i already have will be the only one that works, right?
< 1288651658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i only have to relocate the idt
< 1288651706 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? you're going into real mode now?
< 1288651709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*into long mode
< 1288651714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: or, wait, i'd actually want two more entries, wouldn't i? for user mode
< 1288651720 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll load a new long-mode gdt
< 1288651738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the mind boggles.
< 1288651749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you know what, i'll wait for you to write long mode stuff and then rip that off :)
< 1288651754 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooor, would you? I don't know if long mode even has a gdt, it doesn't have segmentation anyway
< 1288651774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it uses a flat gdt
< 1288651775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1288651779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :requires, even
< 1288651780 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, long mode has a gdt and it has a different format
< 1288651782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It does have a GDT, but the descriptors are different.
< 1288651784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1288651808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh joy :)
< 1288651827 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Seriously, wouldn't a geodesic dome-like-thing make more sense?
< 1288651832 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288651848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://i55.tinypic.com/261dnav.gif seems to be their current plan for implementing spherical topologies.
< 1288651849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1288651850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, for the spherical topology thing?
< 1288651879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's topology, so it makes no difference the precise shape.
< 1288651894 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: most of the example from osdev (the hack that skips protected mode) is also applicable for jumping from protected to long mode
< 1288651904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it *is* impossible to fit any planar neighbourhood onto a sphere.
< 1288651912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: copying you is so much easier though :)
< 1288651923 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a projective plane, but that's stopped them even less.
< 1288651933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can't cover a sphere with squares anyway, if that's what they're trying to do in theory
< 1288651942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I object.
< 1288651954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oerjan proved it once :)
< 1288651976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cubes are, after all, a topologically spherical object covered with squares
< 1288651984 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but then you won't *learn*!
< 1288651985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't have a Moore neighbourhood, though.
< 1288651997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i will, by copying your code carefully :)
< 1288652004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, right
< 1288652011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can't be equally-sized squares though :)
< 1288652025 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh no it's not topology exactly.
< 1288652033 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you looked at a cube lately.
< 1288652054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, Euler characteristics, which are what oerjan's proof used, are a topological thing.
< 1288652058 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Re long-mode gdt: "This LGDT [for the 64-bit mode] is only needed if the long-mode GDT is to be located at a linear address above 4 Gbytes. If the long mode GDT is located at a 32-bit linear address, putting 64-bit descriptors in the GDT pointed by [pGDT32] -- the 32-bit GDT -- is just fine."
< 1288652059 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@69.157.46.199 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288652084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do need a 64-bit IDT, because the descriptors are of completely different size and so on.
< 1288652140 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, so you overwrite the gdt with completely different data, then do a new far jump to a 64-bit segment, and it works?
< 1288652154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you go into long mode with interrupts disabled?
< 1288652160 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If this can be done with "just" topology then... I don't know why they are trying
< 1288652178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, plan: Use the code I have now. Make it jump into long mode and mangle the GDT properly. Let the OS handle setting up an IDT.
< 1288652180 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing this with interrupts enabled seems like a very dubious idea
< 1288652185 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, because they don't know topology.
< 1288652199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there only one way you can have a GDT set up in long mode?
< 1288652206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to tell them why it's impossible on the mailing list.
< 1288652226 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A geodesic dome construction might not be topologically kosher, or even geometrically kosher *really*, but it would... shoehorn what they're trying to do, onto a sphere, in a way that's "fair".
< 1288652231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to their mailing list?
< 1288652260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't know how it works: the example just says that the 32-bit GDT will need "at a minimum" "1) a CPL=0 16-bit code descriptor for this code segment", "2) a CPL=0 32/64-bit code descriptor for the 64-bit code." and "3) a CPL=0 read/write data segment, usable as a stack".
< 1288652294 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I mean is: when we say "n neighbours" we kinda sorta really mean "n UNIQUE neighbours" and fudging that is silly. Fudge something else please.
< 1288652295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This AMD64 example enables protected mode, but uses 16-bit protected mode code to go to long mode.
< 1288652322 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so it just stays in the old code segment after setting protect enable?
< 1288652328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16-bit protected mode?!
< 1288652362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, sort-of. It does a far jump, but into the "same" 16-bit code segment.
< 1288652383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, well, a 1,1 torus is legitimate enough, for reasons I'm unsure of.
< 1288652446 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there's also a tiling-based argument somewhere...
< 1288652463 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, weird, what's the point of doing it like that?
< 1288652483 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288652501 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's the difference between this new 16-bit code segment and the one inherited from real mode?
< 1288652535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You need to do the far jump for the protected mode to actually get enabled; other than that, probably not much difference there.
< 1288652588 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Anyway, I guess it saves the need for a 32-bit code segment anywhere. It also doesn't bother with things like setting up ds/es/fs/gs in protected mode, since it jumps directly to long mode very soon after enabling protected mode.
< 1288652658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LIKE HOW OLSNER IS GOING TO DO THIS ALL FOR ME
< 1288652664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Is your x86 manual set the AMD or Intel one? If the AMD one (Volume 2: System Programming), it's 14.8 "Long-Mode Initialization Example" I was pulling that stuff from.
< 1288652718 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I'm reading AMD's document 24593 now, so I could just read this at the source instead of asking you :)
< 1288652747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a bit messy, since it has a pGDT64 pseudo-descriptor in there, but the later comments say it's not exactly needed; and it doesn't show what actually is at gdt32_base.)
< 1288652773 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie explains it, I write the code, elliott uses it :D
< 1288652794 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then in a week or so i'm going to try writing something that goes into protected mode and we'll all go through all this AGAIN
< 1288652802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I totally write code too! Except my bits are the ones that don't work until you figure out what's wrong with them.
< 1288652807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: NO DUDE LONG MODE
< 1288652815 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I"M NOT READY FOR THAT
< 1288652815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like protected mode but you have an aneurysm
< 1288652823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: LET ME SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU
< 1288652826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: EIGHT MORE FUCKING REGISTERS
< 1288652830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO STUPID SEGMENTATION BULLSHIT
< 1288652834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eight more registers! EIGHT!
< 1288652840 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND TWICE THE BITS PER REGISTER!!!
< 1288652846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 15 general-purpose 64-bit registers!
< 1288652851 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND ANOTHER STACK!!!!!
< 1288652851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly X86 ISN'T SO SHITTY ANYMORE
< 1288652859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND MY AXE
< 1288652876 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the glazing on the turd
< 1288652898 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many systems there are that actually support long mode, but not "fast A20"
< 1288652906 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are manufacturers really so weird?
< 1288652915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Just use the BIOS to do it :P
< 1288652924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You can disable Fast A20 in the BIOS sometimes.
< 1288652926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inexplicably.
< 1288652929 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fully plan to, that's what the BIOS is *for*
< 1288652932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it's disabled by default.
< 1288652996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, when it comes to the 64-bit GDT: it needs to have a TSS descriptor (for the single 64-bit task there can be), as many code descriptors as you wish (they still exist, though mostly just to determine if code's running in 64-bit mode or the 32-bit compatibility-mode-in-long-mode), and any data-segment descriptors needed by 32-bit code. (In 64-bit code, ds/es/ss values are ignored; for fs/gs it's.. complicated.)
< 1288653189 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this TSS thing is what you use to leave kernel mode and run in user mode for a while?
< 1288653203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 64-bit mode, it seems that it ignores pretty much everything in the descriptors except a few flag bits; I guess that's what they mean with the comment in the example that you don't necessarily need to set up a different GDT, they're compatible enough.
< 1288653340 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. as long as you're not retarded and set non-0 offsets or non-4G limits you can use the exact same segment descriptors for both modes?
< 1288653369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It doesn't even matter if you set non-0 offsets or fancy limits, they're ignored in 64-bit code.
< 1288653413 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have a segment retardation fault or something for it instead :)
< 1288653425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does all this fit in with a higher half kernel?
< 1288653427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just askin'
< 1288653432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288653436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't know about the TSS; "Although the hardware task-switching mechanism is not supported in long mode, a 64-bit task state segment (TSS) must still exist. System software must create at least one 64-bit TSS for use after activating long mode, and it must execute the LTR instruction, in 64-bit mode, to load the TR register with a pointer to the 64-bit TSS that serves both 64-bit-mode programs and compatibility-mode programs."
< 1288653464 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does "higher half" mean?
< 1288653516 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proximal end?
< 1288653529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for that you just need to mostly set the paging tables properly. I profess to complete ignorance on the privilege level changes: it seems to be a whole other esoteric mess of call gates, interrupt gates and trap gates.
< 1288653539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://wiki.osdev.org/Higher_Half_Kernel
< 1288653541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is traditional and generally good to have your kernel mapped in every user process. Linux, for instance (and many other Unices) reside at the virtual addresses 0xC0000000 - 0xFFFFFFFF of every address space, leaving the range 0x00000000 - 0xBFFFFFFF for user code, data, stacks, libraries, etc. Kernels that have such design are said to be "in the higher half" by opposition to kernels that use lowest virtual addresses for themselves, and leave h
< 1288653541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :igher addresses for the applications.
< 1288653562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.osdev.org/Higher_Half_Kernel
< 1288653567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't want to enable paging right from the start, it is still possible to have your kernel appearing in the higher half. Tim Robinson's GDT Trick works by using segmentation to select an appropriate base for the code and data segments. Say you've loaded your kernel at 0x10000 and we want it to appear at 0xC0000000, then all we need to do is find a base _X_, such as _X_ + 0xC0000000 = 0x10000. The bootloader will then initialize the GDT wit
< 1288653567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h cs.base = 0x40010000 = ds.base. This also means that special care must be taken for VRAM (video RAM) access, as 0xB8000 is now somewhere above 1GB. Either use a special 0-based additional data-segment or use
< 1288653584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I seem to recall reading something about entering long mode while using that insane GDT trick.
< 1288653592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.osdev.org/Higher_Half_With_GDT
< 1288653627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound like something that would work in long mode.
< 1288653638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that GDT bases are ignored.
< 1288653673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You do that and *then* do it properly with paging in long mode.
< 1288653684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw hell, I have no idea. I just parrot the wiki.
< 1288653699 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that page instantly makes me hate OS programming for some reason
< 1288653702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but it doesn't sound like it would help you anything assuming you want to get long mode done before jumping to the kernel.
< 1288653723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, as long as you don't actually jump into the kernel code, it doesn't really matter at what address it appears to be.
< 1288653727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right.
< 1288653734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I realised that a second ago :)
< 1288653751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you might run out of bytes in your boot sector in setting up paging. :p
< 1288653773 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288653786 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you'd generate the page tables for the regions you need access to during startup
< 1288653814 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't look into the details, but the direct-to-long-mode page had something like that
< 1288653854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand, now, why people like unreal mode
< 1288653861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paging in long mode is so simple, too: http://zem.fi/~fis/paging.png
< 1288653911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page frames, page tables, page directory tables, page directory pointer tables and finally the "page map level 4 table" on top.
< 1288653971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should just opt for not using virtual memory or privilege levels; who needs that sort of stuff anyway?
< 1288654006 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288654014 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, of course you must have proper kernel/user mode, memory protection and task switching
< 1288654027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: WHY
< 1288654041 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just do!
< 1288654043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To SAVE you from YOURSELF, of course.
< 1288654050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or BADLY BEHAVED CODE, anyway.
< 1288654057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter in a lisp OS at least :)
< 1288654064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact running everything in kernel mode is beneficial there.
< 1288654094 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're building a lisp os? :)
< 1288654102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well -- maybe! :p
< 1288654108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to get the freaking boot sector written first.
< 1288654158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only ~1.59361 * 10^1228 boot sectors, anyway.
< 1288654162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have to pick one!
< 1288654333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288654628 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once designed a protected memory system for the Z80 (in hardware)
< 1288654701 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A clock would periodically reset the processor and switch the lower half of memory to a new bank
< 1288654755 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget exactly how, but the plan was to write a JMP to the address you were last executing, into the first few bytes of your task's bank, so you could continue executing
< 1288654789 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288654790 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there was an interrupt issued just before the reset, then your code was supposed to do this then enable the reset
< 1288654790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wow.
< 1288654805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: all that for protected memory :)
< 1288654823 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-23.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288654872 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. also considering there is an "enhanced Z80" out there somewhere which basically does all this in a chip :)
< 1288654917 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DS, which doesn't really do paging or have an MMU, still has a rudimentary "memory protection unit" thing that can define the access privileges (and caching behaviour) to was-it-8 mostly arbitrary ranges of physical addresses.
< 1288655006 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, my boot loader/os project has a CVS dir that points to a cvsroot with a windows path
< 1288655038 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is from 2002 though, I was younger then
< 1288655087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote it is from 2002 though, I was younger then
< 1288655104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wait i just adapted code developed on windows and cvs?
< 1288655106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel wrong
< 1288655145 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it can never have been developed on windows, the build script is very much unix
< 1288655147 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1288655166 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was *stored* on windows at some point
< 1288655615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to decipher why his vga display fun isn't working
< 1288655728 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cat + melodica = insane cat
< 1288655924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: approve#
< 1288655926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/#$//
< 1288656209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: SO IS IT LONG YET
< 1288656214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rabble rabble rabble
< 1288656427 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very long yet, no
< 1288656574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the length of your general-purpose registers, it's how you use 'em.
< 1288656583 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288656703 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the label reads "General purpose register -- To be used for general purposes only"
< 1288656785 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "Enhanced Z80", ftr, is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80000)
< 1288656803 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit!
< 1288656827 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, not Z80-compatible, though.
< 1288656837 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1288656843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the eZ80, too.
< 1288656847 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288656863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No on-chip MMU, but more address bits and so on.
< 1288657241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the Z180 has some sort of on-chip memory banking thing, but I don't know if you can (ab)use that for memory protection or not.
< 1288657293 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, long mode would change the behaviour of NOP to not be no-op, unless they gave it a special case
< 1288657335 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("NOP" is actually xchg eax,eax - but 32-bit operations are supposed to clear the upper bits of the 64-bit register)
< 1288657443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is fucking *ridiculous* how much better video looks when you go and calibrate your monitor right.
< 1288657449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely, positively fucking ridiculous.
< 1288657506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, any websites that can help with that?
< 1288657514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: they do give it a special case :P
< 1288657523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think...
< 1288657531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Say, does x86 actually have a specific nop instruction?
< 1288657538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing a page once...
< 1288657545 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, they special-case it
< 1288657554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/index.php
< 1288657560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does have a specific NOP now.
< 1288657575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that I have not the faintest idea how to adjust stuff on this thing
< 1288657579 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really want the swap-with-self-and-clear-upper-bits you have to use a different encoding of the same instruction
< 1288657597 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I wonder if it was the Z180 I was thinking of...
< 1288657599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if it's been special-cased for a while now.
< 1288657688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I adjust contrast on a laptop?
< 1288657694 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike the Z80,000, I can actually find units of Z180 for sale.
< 1288657753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck!
< 1288657761 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ZiLOG/Z8S18010PSG/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtp5ziQ9mm%252bAtzjy5qS0%252bme DIP-60 :)
< 1288657762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might Windows's built-in calibration stuff be any help?
< 1288657768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can disable what the OS does, right?
< 1288657768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's most important is getting your gamma set straight...
< 1288657813 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get the monitor's menu on this thing?
< 1288657835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gamma correction should be in your OS. I *highly* doubt your monitor can help you.
< 1288657849 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That totally must be what I was thinking of, although fizzie is absolutely correct that it's not clear if the "MMU" actually protects memory, or just pages it.
< 1288657866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now I'm looking at color calibration
< 1288657878 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"press the menu button for the display"
< 1288657889 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288657924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, gamma doesn't require that
< 1288657981 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO NOT PLAY WIND INSTRUMENTS
< 1288657983 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gasps for breath
< 1288658058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fix that, you monster.
< 1288658085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad's asking me to look for the best mp4 player
< 1288658096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I can think is VLC, but he's asking me to look for writeups
< 1288658109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it even make sense for different players to have different qualities
< 1288658110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mplayer or VLC.
< 1288658119 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm gasping for breath because I'm playing a melodica :P
< 1288658122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like for every other video format.
< 1288658130 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Specifically, I'm playing ZEE3 on a melodica.
< 1288658136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nice.
< 1288658143 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While wearing a retainer because this mouthpiece is effing up my teeth X-D
< 1288658197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do different video players even play the same file at different video quality? That makes no sense to me
< 1288658237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some video players actually do suck ass at quality.
< 1288658323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What matters is generally how it actually outputs to screen, though. Aside from a small handful of cases, they will all get the exact same raw video stream from a video.
< 1288658340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's some players with *broken decoders*.)
< 1288658402 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1288658426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : My dad's asking me to look for the best mp4 player
< 1288658426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : All I can think is VLC, but he's asking me to look for writeups
< 1288658429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so? That's ridiculous.
< 1288658433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell him to take the suggestion or leave it.
< 1288658453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's satisfied knowing that I asked, I think
< 1288658544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone still maintains KDE 3.
< 1288658613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Trinity Desktop Environment project, organised and led by Timothy Pearson, Kubuntu release manager for KDE 3.5[9], has released Trinity to pick up where the KDE e.V. left. It is currently trying to keep the KDE 3.5 branch alive, attempting to fix bugs during the process, enhance it with additional features and make it more compatible with recent hardware.
< 1288658614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1288658622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This project aims to keep the KDE3.5 computing style alive, as well as polish off any rough edges that were present as of KDE 3.5.10. Along the way, new useful features will be added to keep the environment up-to-date.
< 1288658625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/
< 1288658641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's in Debian!
< 1288658700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not quite.
< 1288658706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a separate repository.
< 1288658715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaw.
< 1288658720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah well.
< 1288658734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit of an unfortunate name, what with the nuclear test.
< 1288658736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/pub/Documentation/Releases_3_5_12/sm_kde3_5_maverick_livecd_konqueror.png
< 1288658851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so bad about KDE4?
< 1288658858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is anyone keeping KDE2 alive?
< 1288658865 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288658877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is KDE4 the Vista of KDE or something?
< 1288658878 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The UI. The fact that it lost all the wonderful customizability of KDE3 while gaining ... retard OS-X-Vista-ness.
< 1288658878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is bad about KDE 4.
< 1288658890 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE4 is why I switched to XFCE.
< 1288658898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The customisability hasn't been lost that much. But the applications are terrible.
< 1288658908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The backend libraries of KDE4 seem decent. But the UI is terrible.
< 1288658911 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do I have to get my LCARS screenshot out :P
< 1288658917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could vaguely -- sort of -- understand KDE users in the days of 3.
< 1288658927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now everyone who uses KDE is just an idiot and I don't talk to them. :P
< 1288658960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *KDE SC 4
< 1288658963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a software compilation now!
< 1288658965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 3 was usable. It took tweaking to get it nice, but it was *usable*.
< 1288658976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"October 30, 2007 (The INTERNET)." -- KDE press release
< 1288658982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 4... It's damned near impossible to tell it to stop sucking.
< 1288658983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE COME FROM THE INTERNETS
< 1288659032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The observers set up betting pools on the results of the test. Predictions ranged from zero (a complete dud) to 18 kilotons of TNT (predicted by physicist I. I. Rabi, who won the bet[24]), to destruction of the state of New Mexico, to ignition of the atmosphere and incineration of the entire planet." -- [[Trinity (nuclear test)]]
< 1288659037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheerful betting pool.
< 1288659052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm gonna go with 'what we've done here will cause New Mexico to cease to exist'."
< 1288659068 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder who expected to cash in on the planetary incineration bet
< 1288659083 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288659083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus.
< 1288659096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka Richard Feynman
< 1288659154 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what they though the reaction (ignition of atmosphere) would be...
< 1288659166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Bad.
< 1288659172 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obiviously something exotermic...
< 1288659179 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to claim your part of the pool when you bet the world would be destroyed :P
< 1288659225 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if it destroyed new mexico and more than 50% of the rest of the world, but not the part where you are
< 1288659239 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd be closest but not correct
< 1288659246 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would say that that's worse than Hitler
< 1288659251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you weren't there when it happened :P
< 1288659258 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GODWIN'S LAW HAS BEEN INVOKED
< 1288659260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "Destroying the planet is worse than what Hitler did.
< 1288659261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conversation over
< 1288659261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*did."
< 1288659263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG REALLY
< 1288659269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hitler, like, DESTROYED ANDROMEDA
< 1288659270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't he?
< 1288659280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT NO he just killed a few million people.
< 1288659387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION performs CPR on the conversation
< 1288659449 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what's in all these reserved control registers in x86
< 1288659483 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use 0,2,3,4,8 but 1, 5-7 and 9-15 are reserved
< 1288659505 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh.. CR8? Never heard about it before...
< 1288659553 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the task priority register
< 1288659886 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :window
< 1288660121 0 :window!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1288660269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288661746 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288662594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you're allowed to use them? Awesome.
< 1288662598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More general-purpose registers!
< 1288662605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait
< 1288662608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allowed to use them for their purpose
< 1288662615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than not being allowed to use them at all
< 1288662638 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288662642 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js> ({}).constructor
< 1288662645 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err
< 1288662697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor types out his prompt when talking to a javascript console.
< 1288662712 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup
< 1288662721 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps Gregor plays both parts
< 1288662746 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oh, I PLAY both PARTS *WINK WINK*
< 1288662757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Gregor is saying is: sex.
< 1288662773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know OSSv4?
< 1288662782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What about it?
< 1288662802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've remembered why I have a bad taste in my mouth about it.
< 1288662848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh?\
< 1288662854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They funded XMMS development for quite a few years and owned the domain xmms.org, which the XMMS project used. Indeed, it was used in the present day, I think it had the XMMS2 site on it, and many XMMS developers used it for email and personal webspace.
< 1288662860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to determine if he needs to bring photo ID tomorrow
< 1288662865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then 4Front Technologies, developers of OSS, decided to sell it.
< 1288662868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: To a cybersquatter.
< 1288662871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Without asking the XMMS team.
< 1288662878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They then emailed the XMMS team asking for a webpage dump.
< 1288662884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://tobias.hieta.se/2010/04/28/what-ever-happened-to-xmms-org/ for the full, gory story.
< 1288662917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO
< 1288662919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*o.O
< 1288662929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been debates about whether it's ok to require photo ID
< 1288662946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: To... where?
< 1288662959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for voting
< 1288663000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In NY
< 1288663005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found something about Minnesota
< 1288663015 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wtf
< 1288663019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I am pretty sure they have no constitutional right to demand photo ID...
< 1288663022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The fuck.
< 1288663031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Doesn't stop them.
< 1288663066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Sgeo I take it you are voting for the Republicans
< 1288663078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know you're joking
< 1288663084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I'm not
< 1288663089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't you?!
< 1288663103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're in your "try to confuse Sgeo" mode
< 1288663107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'd have to be braindead to vote for them.
< 1288663132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So, wait. You're *not* voting for the Republicans?
< 1288663149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not voting straight party whatever, though. Just in regards to people who I know about. Which turns out leaving me supporting all Democrats this election
< 1288663167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey I guessed right.
< 1288663173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long live the two-party system!
< 1288663175 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't know as much about Peter King's opponent as I'd like to
< 1288663179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hahaha
< 1288663205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is that Mr. King voted against HCR
< 1288663281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :US health care reform: Because if you don't look to closely, it sort of resembles single-payer health care!
< 1288663333 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1288663335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I'm aware, it's mostly regulations on what insurance companies can and cannot do
< 1288663344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1288663360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus *fines* for not having insurance, unless I'm grossly mistaken.
< 1288663373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, y'know, is sort of *entirely great* for the *horrible insurance companies*.
< 1288663400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On the other hand, the bastards can't drop anybody.
< 1288663417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all of this is entirely stupid because you guys could *just have single-payer*.
< 1288663422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't the fines cheaper than insurance...?
< 1288663425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, bit of an ineffectual "reform".
< 1288663444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet, it's easy to see why it is how it is.
< 1288663464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People think that *this* was somehow going to send people to the gas chambers.
< 1288663466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...and?
< 1288663469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those morons vote.
< 1288663474 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killing the entire insurance industry outright wouldn't be good.
< 1288663478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making the fines essentially worthless
< 1288663478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes it would.
< 1288663493 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about good for healthcare.
< 1288663501 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about good for the economy, good for jobs.
< 1288663514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, as we all know, are more important than healthcare.
< 1288663522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's a massive economic inefficiency, y'know.
< 1288663543 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And a massive economic sinkhole would be better?
< 1288663554 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not claiming we can't do anything, I'm claiming anything we do needs to be gradual.
< 1288663555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's what we *have*.
< 1288663569 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-88-110-173.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288663569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: We dump money in there that goes to kill people.
< 1288663606 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. But it's money that goes SOMEWHERE. As opposed to cutting off the industry outright and watching thousands of employed people flail.
< 1288663616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently-employed, that is
< 1288663660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The US is so fucked up that we have a choice between killing people with massive megacorporations and killing people with unemployment.
< 1288663667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if the Democrats regain power, they're not going to bother fixing the fix of healthcare?
< 1288663677 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. Exactly.
< 1288663677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Because, in the US, unemployment equals death. Did I mention we're fucked up?
< 1288663695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uhh, they're the ones who wanted it so... no.
< 1288663695 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait
< 1288663699 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Clearly what I'm arguing is to do nothing whatsoever.
< 1288663701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Which is an improvement over the Republicans, who intend to repeal the fix and then go under a witch hunt.
< 1288663702 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean obviously.
< 1288663707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. Clearly.
< 1288663707 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's nothing else I could be arguing here at all.
< 1288663713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't disagree :)
< 1288663716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You do realise the Democrats are only *slightly* to the left of the Republicans?
< 1288663731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am continually amazed that Americans actually buy in to the two-party thing.
< 1288663733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How's about a 10 or 20 year migration to a public health system?
< 1288663740 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That makes sense.
< 1288663746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or how's about this?
< 1288663746 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably closer to 10.
< 1288663757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gradually but not slowly extend Medicare to cover pretty much everyone.
< 1288663763 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly!
< 1288663766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insurance companies go "but with us, you get NICER coverage!".
< 1288663769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They survive because of idiots.
< 1288663771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's the easiest way to do it, yes.
< 1288663774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then extend Medicare to everyone in one go.
< 1288663775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be possible that the broken fix might be WORSE than no fix
< 1288663777 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, perfect.
< 1288663783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It isn't.
< 1288663784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insurance companies cry, shrivel up, and die, but only after stagnating over the previous few years.
< 1288663788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG CAN I BE PRESIDENT NOW
< 1288663797 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly what's happening to the music industry :P
< 1288663802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: At least now the insurance companies can't drop you because you became too expensive.
< 1288663810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...what's music medicare? X-D
< 1288663819 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The Pirate Bay
< 1288663833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The Pirate Bay hasn't worked in ages :P
< 1288663849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, you can search, but their tracker is down and OpenBittorrent never has any peers.
< 1288663861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're great for getting .torrent files from torrentz.com, though!
< 1288663886 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll change my answer to "torrents" then X_X
< 1288663897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lawl
< 1288663901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: By the way: http://www.devmazumdar.com/
< 1288663905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, but you can just generate magnet links from there.
< 1288663925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As a gesture of gratitude for his long-lasting generosity (he “invested a lot of money in XMMS.org”, after all), we will be hosting the XMMS project on DEVMAZUMDAR.COM from now on.
< 1288663925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you so much for everything, Dev."
< 1288663943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will be people who delay getting insurance until they need it, due to ineffectual fines, which raises prices. What good is insurance that covers any expense if no one can pay for the insurance? (Note: I am not an economist, nor do I know to what extent prices would rise)
< 1288663955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :)
< 1288663972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I also bought up zinf.org for the same reason. I want to use either or both of these brands to make a new media player that leads the market not follows. I know there are other projects out there but we can re-invent xmms."
< 1288663980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit people, I bought your domain! Drop XMMS2 NOW and make my perfect media player!
< 1288664011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: BTW, it's actually a tax that you don't have to pay if you have insurance...
< 1288664012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Health insurance companies are more in the "wtf" category than the "economics" category.
< 1288664021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since demand for healthcare is, uh, *infinite*.
< 1288664053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That site claims there's no guarantee that xmms.org downloads don't contain malware
< 1288664054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And anyways, healthcare is one of those things that just plain does not function at all under free market conditions.
< 1288664078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There is no such guarantee, since a cybersquatter owns it.
< 1288664098 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...according to this devmazumdar person, or according to reality?
< 1288664100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i should totally write my OS in Literate Assembly.
< 1288664106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: devmazumdar does not own devmazumdar.com.
< 1288664112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Try READING the TEXT on the PAGE with your EYES.
< 1288664123 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should totally do that
< 1288664135 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1288664142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Our dear friend Dev Mazumdar, from 4Front Technologies, sold our XMMS.ORG domain without asking the XMMS community.
< 1288664143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you determine which is real and which is lying?
< 1288664144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a gesture of gratitude for his long-lasting generosity (he “invested a lot of money in XMMS.org”, after all), we will be hosting the XMMS project on DEVMAZUMDAR.COM from now on.
< 1288664144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you so much for everything, Dev.
< 1288664145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The XMMS team
< 1288664157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Considering that message is from the *XMMS team* and is also on their *official blog*
< 1288664161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to be a moron to believe the cybersquatter.
< 1288664166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so have you got long mode working yet EH
< 1288664176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link to blog?
< 1288664214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTF Log
< 1288664277 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I'm still leisurely reading the manual
< 1288664311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: fun, is it?
< 1288664318 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably would've gotten it done without knowing what I was really doing by now, but ehm, that'd be less fun
< 1288664354 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the example seems to be right at the end of the manual, like 400 pages away
< 1288664365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: lawl
< 1288664368 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD FORBID I just skip to it
< 1288664579 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the manual keeps luring me into reading about task switching and stuff, which isn't strictly required to get into long mode and write some data to vga memory
< 1288664834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.posix.nl/linuxassembly/nasmdochtml/nasmdoca.html omg this is the best x86 reference ever
< 1288664950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i so totally want to write it in literate asm but, lack of tools
< 1288664985 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have sed installed? :D
< 1288665042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: uh, literate programming also involves rearranging code
< 1288665047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: also: emacs syntax highlighting, etc.
< 1288665304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I might try it with noweb.
< 1288665313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: But really, I'd like to get into long mode first and I need YOU for that, slacker
< 1288665460 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288665465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION breathes
< 1288665471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I do that all the time.
< 1288665745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I don't think I like noweb, LaTeX isn't really ideal for what I'd like to use literate programming for.
< 1288665748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not hypertexty enough.
< 1288665875 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced about this literacy thing
< 1288665910 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried to read tex once, I couldn't find the program for all the text
< 1288665911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm not either, but it would be fun to have a literate bootloader.
< 1288665919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh, TeX's use is all very archaic
< 1288665926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I mean, the Pascal doesn't compile on any modern Pascal compiler!
< 1288665936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And WEB itself is basically only distributed with TeX distributions.
< 1288665946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh wait
< 1288665949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's safe to say that Factor does the opposite of literate programming
< 1288665950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you mean you couldn't find the code snippets?
< 1288665957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code and documentation are in separate file
< 1288665959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :files
< 1288665971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, you're not meant to :)
< 1288665989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course literate programming is basically designed for one person to write and everyone else to read...
< 1288666079 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, I couldn't find the code snippets in all the text... and I'm not meant to? huh?
< 1288666133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You're meant to read the text, not skip past it.
< 1288666154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's a book that just happens to be executable.
< 1288666259 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IIRC, I just wanted to find the tex interpreter to figure out how the programming language in tex worked without accidentally learning any typography
< 1288666277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Knuth doesn't want you to. It's an ego thing. :)
< 1288666295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Of course one could always have the typography engine and the programming language in separate chapters.
< 1288666807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: huh, "xor x, x" is slower than "mov x, 0" now
< 1288666809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did nobody tell me?
< 1288666892 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov is still longer since you end up with a 4-byte constant
< 1288666943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288666946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll keep using xor then
< 1288666950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my boot sector at least
< 1288666957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "inc x inc x" is shorter than "add x, 2" :)
< 1288666966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't expect that one, but i guess it's obvious in retrospect
< 1288667011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It actually depends on the CPU which one is shorter.
< 1288667017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: x86 duh
< 1288667018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Erm, faster.
< 1288667022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1288667028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in modern tymes mov x, 0 is faster
< 1288667073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O'
< 1288667082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ?
< 1288667090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because Intel were like "lol xor is so rare, fuck that".
< 1288667093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK only has 5 OTA analog TV stations possible in their system?
< 1288667097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1288667103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Um, no, I think we *could* have a sixth.
< 1288667104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something.
< 1288667112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But the government went "okay, that's it" after the fifth.
< 1288667123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And a lot of people still can't pick up Five. :)
< 1288667130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analogue, that is.
< 1288667145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, they've renamed it back to Channel 5.
< 1288667157 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288667165 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925109575.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288667212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: QUICK WHAT SHOULD I CALL MY TEENY TINY LISP INTERPRETER
< 1288667216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STIGMATISM, SIBILANT OR INTERDENTAL
< 1288667251 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about IHEARTBRACKETS
< 1288667260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The North American analog assignment currently allows for about 30 stations.
< 1288667266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *PARENTHESES
< 1288667268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Used to allow for 45 or so.
< 1288667271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah but you guys are retarded.
< 1288667287 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I call them parentheses, I thought you guys called them brackets X-P
< 1288667310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: () parentheses, [] brackets, {} braces, <> angle brackets
< 1288667323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It is the only terminology I accept. :)
< 1288667339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: [] can also be referred to as "square brackets" to disambiguate.
< 1288667343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I call them "curly braces" in spite of their being no other braces, but otherwise that's what I use :P
< 1288667354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, right, that too.
< 1288667370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I'm talking quickly or whatever, I'd truncate square/curly.
< 1288667396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OMG I should totally make my Lisp run on the bare metal.
< 1288667402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bcuz that's HARDCORE.
< 1288667534 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curly brackets
< 1288667562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Seriously though, 6 stations being *at all possible*?
< 1288667568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think there's more...
< 1288667577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What, do you have gigahertz allocations?
< 1288667578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This was captioned "Tiny Core Linux 2.9": http://www.desktoplinux.com/files/misc/tinycorelinux_v29.jpg
< 1288667583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think so :P
< 1288667589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But I think there could be more than 6.
< 1288667611 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... wtf.
< 1288667621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You see, they're installing Tiny Core Linux from Windows!
< 1288667630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, a real screenshot followed, captioned "Tiny Core Linux 2.4.1 Yep, it's minimalist.".
< 1288667637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT STILL
< 1288667639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... wtf.
< 1288667705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I NEED LONG MODE FOR MY LISPING
< 1288667905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOT SEXY SEX BITS
< 1288667907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/sex_byte_determination.png
< 1288667967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote HOT SEXY SEX BITS
< 1288667977 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :252| HOT SEXY SEX BITS
< 1288667985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Doesn't seem like it.
< 1288667998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You thought it was five before I said no :P
< 1288668068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one sex byte there, it's the byte that's 01 on the top and 37 on the bottom
< 1288668083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the sex byte is repeated a multitude of times throughout the files
< 1288668146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Aaah, PAL-I has significantly more *possible* but the bandwidth allocation is such that you can't squeeze more than 6 in.
< 1288668306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/ten_crea_sex_bytes_and_much_more_to_go.png At the point shown in the file, I had found 10 sex bytes
< 1288668377 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, hypothetically, that i wanted to code in the microcode that underlies the x86 code on a modern machine. what would i have to go through to do that?
< 1288668378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has Sgeo actually managed to be nostalgic about himself?
< 1288668386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you can't -- it's read-only
< 1288668399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: also, afaik, not public
< 1288668400 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hy-po-thetickly
< 1288668423 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a job at intel, huh
< 1288668428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait
< 1288668428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux and FreeBSD(on x86 PCs) have a patch program that fixes botched CPU microcode. Of all UNIX (and UNIX-like) operating systems on Intel (and Intel x86-compatible) PCs there has been an ongoing requirement to patch erroneous microcode since the FPU multiplier problem that was endemic to some Pentiums.
< 1288668435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several Intel CPUs in the IA32 architecture family have writable microcode.[10] This has allowed bugs in the Intel Core 2 microcode and Intel Xeon microcode to be fixed in software, rather than requiring the entire chip to be replaced. Such fixes can be installed by Linux,[11] FreeBSD[12] Microsoft Windows,[13] or the motherboard BIOS.[14]
< 1288668443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/manual/253668.pdf
< 1288668444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun
< 1288668454 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can patch you YOU CAN CODE IN IT
< 1288668455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy fucking up your cpu
< 1288668459 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HWWWWEEEEE
< 1288668550 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i need to build a pdf reader here don't i
< 1288668620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: evince is very nice.
< 1288668634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epdfview or whatever it is is really shit
< 1288668640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evince is worth the few gnome dependencies :)
< 1288668648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: or: XPDF!!11
< 1288668664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://z15.invisionfree.com/CC_Developers/index.php?showtopic=8
< 1288668667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my code
< 1288668680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the "Anyway, this is the script for the robot toy norn")
< 1288668688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except the stuff I may have borrowed myself
< 1288668737 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is probably everything but the first three lines, the born, and the vocb
< 1288668745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure thing, Grendel Man
< 1288668759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, probably duplicating the physics stuff from the robot toy
< 1288668762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not Grendel man
< 1288668767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he copied my code
< 1288668775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he claimed it as his own though
< 1288668781 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused AND loving it
< 1288668921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From that thread, Grendel Man made http://www.seeyou7.net/creatures/creatures3/breeds/grendelman/images/g-rainbowsharkling.html
< 1288668945 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This will cause problems with the GUI and the Creature Selection Menu, so I included an agent by Sgeo that fixes this issue - or at least with DS."
< 1288668999 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypothetically i would probably patch the sse instructions or something else i could, in theory at least, do without (make sure everything on the machine is built WITHOUT them, first)
< 1288669003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG HE MENTIONED YOUR NAME'#5;46
< 1288669016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yeah uh, everything uses sse nowadays
< 1288669019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: maybe the latest version of sse
< 1288669029 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you can tell the compiler to not generate it, right?
< 1288669033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes, but...
< 1288669036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I would overwrite the BCD instructions.
< 1288669038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Nobody uses BCD.
< 1288669049 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also a good candidate, but there are fewer of them.
< 1288669064 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i would only want to turn them into brainfuck anyway, so sure.
< 1288669082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Surely you could assign unimplemented instructions?
< 1288669087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it looks them up anyway. At least some of them.
< 1288669105 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know. possibly you could.
< 1288669119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: what about 6502 microcode
< 1288669187 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that seems less appealing somehow
< 1288669198 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502's don't deserve having their brains rewired
< 1288669198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you were meant to go "OMG 6502 HAD MICROCODE?"
< 1288669200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it doesn't
< 1288669247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, I'm convinced that the bastards who designed analog TV were, well, bastards.
< 1288669264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why couldn't they have made everything simpler and just had 24 fps content go over the air?
< 1288669283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE4a#SSE4a
< 1288669292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :five AMD-only instructions you could maybe reassign on your intel processor
< 1288669337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1288669391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... 24 fps progressive video. As already existed in large quantities.
< 1288669424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone gone through their day without a single crazy music video advertising a long-awaited Lisp book?
< 1288669431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will now fix that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1Zb3xmvMc
< 1288669775 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am now enabling paging in long mode and it fails when trying to read the next instruction (the page is not in the page tables)
< 1288669793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm
< 1288669798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: even if the next one is an appropriate jump?
< 1288669805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, simple solution: add it to the page tables!
< 1288669835 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's *supposed* to be in the page table, obviously
< 1288669848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: WELL FIX IT DUH
< 1288669855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: have you tried copying their example code more directly? :P
< 1288670190 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288670210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: haha, oh boy; if my kernel gets bigger than 512k/1 meg or so, my bootloader will have to load it in unreal mode
< 1288670213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just splendid
< 1288670246 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear laptop battery: Fuck you in the ... thingies
< 1288670264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: GENITALIA
< 1288670283 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to think of the names of the + and -
< 1288670289 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminals? electrodes?
< 1288670307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1288670687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i take it it works perfectly now
< 1288670705 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh... How many different *NAMEs DNS has? CNAME, DNAME, ZNAME? Oh and apparently there's proposals for BNAME...
< 1288670717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FNAME!
< 1288670731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: not real)
< 1288671168 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there are only CNAME and DNAME. ZNAME is also a proposal...
< 1288671311 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNAME?
< 1288671318 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZNAME
< 1288671320 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BNAME?
< 1288671327 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kind of knows what CNAME is
< 1288671329 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of
< 1288671333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codlug.info/files/u1/gnome1_0.jpg GNOME 1 -- it's what plants crave!
< 1288671379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: damn your BSD-usingness, I am becoming less and less convinced that advanced package managers matter.
< 1288672440 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: long mode achieved
< 1288672454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: awesome! GIMME CODE
< 1288672565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: haha, my bootloader is going to start in real mode, go into protected mode, go into unreal mode, go into protected mode, and then go into long mode
< 1288672582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: protected to get to unreal, unreal so i can load a >1 meg kernel, protected to get to long, and long to run the kernel
< 1288673104 0 :Decarabia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host
< 1288673127 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288673319 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1288673360 0 :Decarabia!~root@S010600240171528a.ed.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288674063 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288674067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner has figured out that if he doesn't give me code, i am powerless
< 1288674081 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so does the loading work again yet?
< 1288674086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes
< 1288674097 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i interested in what the problem was?
< 1288674100 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://gist.github.com/657234
< 1288674127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i'm stupid and olsner isn't
< 1288674137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: some stupid parameter to the call
< 1288674142 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288674187 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's really QUITE late now
< 1288674262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
< 1288674266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if i get
< 1288674267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUGS
< 1288674270 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy code stealing and good night :)
< 1288674286 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just ... figure it out :)
< 1288674321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: PAH!
< 1288674512 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288674564 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely you mean: PAE!
< 1288674574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i'm tired shut up :|
< 1288674577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes
< 1288674577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288674578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly
< 1288674682 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: This package has set PKG_FAIL_REASON:
< 1288674682 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: openmotif-2.3.1nb4 has an unacceptable license condition:
< 1288674683 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: openmotif-license
< 1288674698 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAR PACKAGE YOUR LICENSE IS IN ERROR
< 1288674736 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah!
< 1288674739 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's GPL v2!
< 1288674746 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no wait
< 1288674770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: package managers; who neds em
< 1288674829 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what i'm thinking right now, certainly
< 1288674835 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saving me legally from myself
< 1288674870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: herz what im thinkin, in tired-shorthand;
< 1288674886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: /usr/src. ok. buncha directories inside, dey pkgs.
< 1288674924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: makefile. "all" rule, depend on like the-software-version/{configure,Makefile}, and dey just call dose. rul for dose configure and makefile, is, we download software tarball from internet, and unpack.
< 1288674942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and der a download-binary target, which does same for binary tarball which has makefile that install and etc.
< 1288674945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: therefore win
< 1288674963 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkgsrc+bin
< 1288675006 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, as long as you can cleanly remove what you install, i don't care about the rest
< 1288675111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh yaeh make uninstall target.
< 1288675122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: with bianry package all this is much simpler
< 1288675128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install: tar xf, run shell script
< 1288675139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uninstall: remove all non-config files from some manifest, run shell script
< 1288675148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: then we just plug that into a ports-style autocompile system
< 1288675428 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.rh.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288675476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ah! the frontispiece!
< 1288675479 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ni hao, shijie.
< 1288675498 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Beg coming your pardon?
< 1288675504 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again!
< 1288675507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: CRETAN
< 1288675509 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left out a word.
< 1288675515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thou art'st'st'st'st's't'st'st'st; unbulate
< 1288675527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :track the pititulancers oft'x blaeæit;
< 1288675534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :triuek th'vrandermoore
< 1288675544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upön talyisemens
< 1288675549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kast'shure.
< 1288675556 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you writing in some esolang we don't know yet? :P
< 1288675577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: VERILY! crite understambulaters,
< 1288675581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they wuld,
< 1288675592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creese down t'tirednes wht'sgrinnin'
< 1288675603 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how was your weekend?
< 1288675662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiktended
< 1288675743 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm starting a site some folk on here might find interesting and useful.
< 1288675784 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to do a final project for my Web Design class, and I figured it would be more beneficial to myself and mankind to make something other than a personal page that'll rot on the school server.
< 1288675825 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's a site for vote-based advertisement of new open-source projects, so small developers can gain exposure.
< 1288675892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too practical, lame!
< 1288675897 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get an icon, a URL, and a Twitter-sized description. You can upvote or downvote projects. Receiving a downvote loses you points, and giving one loses you a few fewer. Receiving upvotes on your project or your userpage gives you points.
< 1288675922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.
< 1288675933 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Projects and users are ranked by newest, most popular, and "hottest", that is, both new and popular.
< 1288675978 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing quite like it out there.
< 1288675985 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think I have a good niche.
< 1288675985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there is a reddit for that.
< 1288676019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i can't think i'd ever browse it -- it sounds like a site of ads, admittedly user-controlled ads
< 1288676044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a good idea to go out in search of software "just because".
< 1288676055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software should be built to serve a use and people who want that use should use the software.
< 1288676065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure i approve of the idea of showcasing software just because it exists.
< 1288676074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the kind of thing i expect from commercial software
< 1288676109 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but if you want people to work on your software with you, but aren't established yet, what do you do? Sourceforge and freshmeat and even slightly smaller sites such as Google Code and github aren't geared toward exposure for new projects.
< 1288676112 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't approve of showcasing PSOX?
< 1288676137 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds a bridge to duck under
< 1288676150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: The kind of people who would read the site are, I feel, not the kind of people who would make good software contributors.
< 1288676166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Also, contributing to software you don't have a need for is an exercise in half-assedness.
< 1288676178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better is to find a community or group of people with the need, and look for contributors there.
< 1288676223 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can't say what sort of people would use the site until it's actually been run. (Never optimise without profiling?) And who says you'd contribute to software you don't have a need for? You'd contribute to software that interests you because you have a need for it.
< 1288676252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: then the software developer should ask for contributors on a relevant forum
< 1288676257 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even just see what the open-source community is up to and take a ride on the bleeding edge.
< 1288676257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you're saying that the usecase is
< 1288676265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmer who has a need for X reads this site on a regular basis
< 1288676271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just happens to see some software that does X
< 1288676273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and decides to contribute
< 1288676278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds like a very contrived usage scenario.
< 1288676282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Or even just see what the open-source community is up to and take a ride on the bleeding edge.
< 1288676285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so software for software's sake.
< 1288676321 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and gaining exposure, promoting good new ideas.
< 1288676325 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how this is just about attracting contributors; users would also be part of the audience
< 1288676332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software for software's sake is the reason software sucks
< 1288676334 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Right you are.
< 1288676340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: because users already have a way of finding software to meet need X
< 1288676356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's called freshmeat, google, etc.; okay, they're not very *good*, but the basic model can be improved upon.
< 1288676362 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes users don't know what their "needs" even are
< 1288676363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this site would merely showcase new software
< 1288676366 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one *needs* a game
< 1288676372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ok, so have a site for games
< 1288676387 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just an example
< 1288676394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: what's your non-game example?
< 1288676440 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i need one?
< 1288676446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes
< 1288676451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because games are very different from other software
< 1288676514 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's what tags are for. Let a folksonomy develop.
< 1288676523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"folksonomy" please never use this word...
< 1288676524 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm just doing this for school, as an experiment. If it takes off, bully.
< 1288676528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ok, so it's basically freshmeat?
< 1288676536 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WEB 2.0 AJAX CLOUD
< 1288676545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a semi-pointless top list of all projects
< 1288676548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of thing
< 1288676585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yawns
< 1288676593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must. Stay. Awake. To. Normalise. Sleep. Schedule.
< 1288676630 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but with subtly different motivation and approach, and not targeted toward just "unix and cross-platform" software.
< 1288676652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm i just saw a piece of software on freshmeat that was windows/os x only.
< 1288676708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pumps more liquid sugar + caffeine into system
< 1288676708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must
< 1288676709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay
< 1288676709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awake
< 1288676712 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blinks*
< 1288676718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blink a lot!
< 1288676730 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So...only Windows or OSX. That crosses two platforms, one of which is Unix-based.
< 1288676739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so basically you want windows-only software too
< 1288676743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uhhhh HAIKU!
< 1288676746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2!
< 1288676747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS!
< 1288676800 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like Ohloh, except less like a wiki and more like Twitter.
< 1288676816 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, I'm not just trying to sound "Web 2.0" here. I think it's got it's place.
< 1288676822 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck on your project, evincar. hope you get a good grade
< 1288676833 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night
< 1288676836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i'm not trying to disparage his work or anything
< 1288676836 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Cheers, that's all I'm asking.
< 1288676843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just critiquing the idea from a standalone viewpoint
< 1288676845 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1288676847 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I realise that. I'm glad for the critique.
< 1288676857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: the thing you're missing, i think, is that twitter is a vast cloud of meaningless noise :)
< 1288676868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: what you have said sounds a *lot* more like reddit to me than twitter btw
< 1288676879 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but a *very active* vast cloud of meaningless noise.
< 1288676884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i guess, you could say that what you want is the reddit to freshmeat's slashdot.
< 1288676891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ohloh
< 1288676893 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hhgrrr.
< 1288676893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this accurate?
< 1288676899 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsing analogy...
< 1288676911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: freshmeat's descriptions of software are very long and it's "heavy-weight"
< 1288676917 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1288676919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no user input as to the order of things on the front page
< 1288676920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1288676925 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, basically.
< 1288676928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas you want short descriptions and user control
< 1288676931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1288676933 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very user-driven, yes.
< 1288676938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you pull it off, it might be worthwhile
< 1288676940 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Centred around the idea of building a community.
< 1288676942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i'll use it though :)
< 1288676950 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, whatever. You'll know about it.
< 1288676954 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's important, too.
< 1288676961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, hey, i don't even like using most software that isn't mine
< 1288676972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm a cynical bastard and hate software
< 1288676981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man what the hell am i going to be like when i'm 20
< 1288676984 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you have Not Invented Here Disorder? :P
< 1288676988 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How old are you?
< 1288676988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Syndrome
< 1288676992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a syndrome!
< 1288676998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: 15 and sleepy.
< 1288677002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sleepiness is part of age, i swear)
< 1288677017 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to coin a new term. The Syndrome refers to a company doing it. :P
< 1288677024 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to a person.
< 1288677058 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm 19, and way less cynical than I was when I was 15.
< 1288677063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I do have NIH but I also have a separate hatred of most software :)
< 1288677072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bring back Lisp machines! or don't, because they were flawed, but
< 1288677076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure as hell better than what we have today
< 1288677086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks apple! thanks microsoft! thanks ib motherfuckin' m!
< 1288677089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yawn
< 1288677099 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're cheeky. How long've you been awake?
< 1288677113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since uh
< 1288677116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:00 or so
< 1288677118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 17:30
< 1288677123 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what time is it there now?
< 1288677124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is now 04:51
< 1288677135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to stay awake until 00:00 or so
< 1288677140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm normalising! hahahaha yeah right
< 1288677155 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say "that's not so bad", but it's not not so bad.
< 1288677165 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not *so* bad.
< 1288677167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should have gone to bed about, uh, now, but my probable sleeping disorder hates me
< 1288677176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :todo: melatonin
< 1288677178 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your urge to drink caffeine.
< 1288677188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: in *this* case it's intentional
< 1288677198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stop me falling asleep before i want to
< 1288677206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be disastrous
< 1288677217 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's just before 1:00 here, and I'm going strong since I woke up late today.
< 1288677239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually as tired as it seems.
< 1288677249 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And spent the rest of the day catching up on homework for the class I missed this morning.
< 1288677250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was a little while ago, but I've perked back up.
< 1288677262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend to eat a damn good breakfast when it's morning to propel me through the day.
< 1288677264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Porridge, perhaps.
< 1288677281 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may take a run to the store and get an energy drink before it closes in an hour.
< 1288677297 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure, though, since I have 7 hours of class ahead of me.
< 1288677305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(related fun fact to a few lines ago -- melatonin is actually prescription only in the uk! can you believe that? if i cared about stupid laws like that, i'd need a *prescription* to legally own a hormone present in my own body at all times)
< 1288677325 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wow.)
< 1288677337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :australia too
< 1288677344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the us, it's not even a drug, it's a "dietary supplement" :)
< 1288677350 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm a lightweight, so half your typical energy drink, plus plenty of water, is more than enough to keep me awake for an extra 24 hours.
< 1288677362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: yeah i should probably down one of those ridiculously unhealthy new "shot" energy drinks
< 1288677375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that taste like blended batteries
< 1288677381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :round about now
< 1288677384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, have none!
< 1288677400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my liver hates me
< 1288677408 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, US law has some issues with drug laws. If you label it as a "supplement" it doesn't need to be evaluated under the Food and Drug Administration's stringent pharmacological requirements.
< 1288677417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dos2unix $1 &> /dev/null && \
< 1288677417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : unix2dos $1 &> /dev/null && \
< 1288677417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : notepad $1 && \
< 1288677417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dos2unix $1 &> /dev/null &"
< 1288677419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no words
< 1288677431 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So vitamins and homeopathic remedies are all labelled accordingly.
< 1288677436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: yeah, that's why melatonin is such too
< 1288677448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the idea of FDA evaluating a natural hormone to see if it's safe.
< 1288677472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As melatonin has been determined unfit for pharmaceutical use, its production is now prohibited. Consequently, reproduction is now illegal."
< 1288677505 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hormones aren't the worst things to mess with, but messing with them *is* messing with yourself.
< 1288677555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: well, yeah. low melatonin levels aren't uncommon though, and i found several studies a while back
< 1288677560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, in short term adult use -- no side effects at all
< 1288677565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another, in *long term* *child* use -- no side effects at all
< 1288677569 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I take growth hormones along with an exercise regime, I'll become far more bulky than I would just exercising normally.
< 1288677587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the side effects are "you get a headache and oversleep"
< 1288677588 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, melatonin in particular is benign.
< 1288677589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of an overdose
< 1288677594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, i'd have trouble thinking of a scenario in which bad things would happen :)
< 1288677597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1288677604 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, miss an important event?
< 1288677611 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288677620 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so serious compared to, y'know, meth.
< 1288677641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :METH + MELATONIN
< 1288677643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRAZIEST SLEEP EVER
< 1288677798 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I've had some pretty crazy sleep.
< 1288677813 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I'm all about fucking with the relationship between sleep, waking, madness, and death.
< 1288677822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am totally not about that
< 1288677837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not like blurring the line between waking and death :)
< 1288677838 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm fond of existential bullshit. It's a hobby.
< 1288677845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can tell
< 1288677885 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometime, if you get the chance, you ought to stay awake for a few days. It's a very interesting experience.
< 1288677897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: my max was about 40 hours
< 1288677906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i almost physically collapsed
< 1288677958 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my record was pushing 70, which is still nothing compared to, say, the world record.
< 1288677991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world record probably ended in death
< 1288678023 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Gardner_%28record_holder%29
< 1288678032 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so! And he was only 17.
< 1288678044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man high school student
< 1288678047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope it was in school term
< 1288678082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["I wanted to prove that bad things didn't happen if you went without sleep," said Gardner.]]
< 1288678087 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guinness has officially stopped keeping records of things that are too dangerous for their legal department. :P
< 1288678089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: what a way to justify your all-nighters to your mother!
< 1288678100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so why he did it
< 1288678101 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he did end up hallucinating.
< 1288678103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refuse to accept any other explanation
< 1288678110 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In reality, the hallucinations are very much like dreams.
< 1288678134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: if you're experiencing them, it's probably microsleep
< 1288678174 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, yes, but for all measurable purposes you're still awake.
< 1288678207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: not if you're driving
< 1288678216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_rail_accident microsleeps were a factor in this
< 1288678220 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, by the way, NEVER do that.
< 1288678239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, drive? ok :
< 1288678240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288678246 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks
< 1288678247 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been falling asleep while driving, and it's...just not worth whatever you're driving for.
< 1288678253 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was already scared of learning to drive
< 1288678260 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a good sleep cycle
< 1288678268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsleeps only happen after sleep deprivation
< 1288678279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: if you're tired DON'T FUCKING DRIVE MORON
< 1288678281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this goes for everone
< 1288678283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everyone
< 1288678292 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does sleeping for 5 hours or less a night count as sleep deprivation?
< 1288678296 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I fully agree
< 1288678299 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Driving is perfectly safe as long as you don't think about the fact that it's horrifically, phenomenally dangerous.
< 1288678300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1288678306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being awake for like 18 hours or more counts
< 1288678318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i hate the road system etc.
< 1288678337 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if I plan a schedule around being able to drive, then fail to get enough sleep, and am tired, but can't do public transportation?
< 1288678338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even this little town is built entirely around these ridiculously dangerous machines driven by people who get angry so easily
< 1288678346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :road rage is an indicator that driving is not good psychology...
< 1288678349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*psychologically...
< 1288678356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they rule the town!
< 1288678367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck people, let's just have them stand and wait for the lethal machines to slow down!
< 1288678369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah.
< 1288678409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: "and state that the Guinness World Records record is 449 hours (18 days, 17 hours) by Maureen Weston, of Peterborough, Cambridgeshire in April, 1977, in a rocking-chair marathon."
< 1288678410 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say something about requiring the operators of the machines to be properly trained and certified, but that obviously doesn't work
< 1288678415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST REASON TO STAY AWAKE EVER
< 1288678417 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like bicycles.
< 1288678418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: they sort of do that
< 1288678426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bicycles are nice if you're into that kind of thing :)
< 1288678432 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm into a lot of things.
< 1288678437 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know. And obviously people still do stupid things
< 1288678441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: What a modern, humane city should do is this:
< 1288678442 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, I'm interested in way too many things.
< 1288678458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Build it for people walking around and bicycles. Roads go to the *side* of everything else, crossings should be kept to an absolute minimum.
< 1288678463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STRICT policy of people taking priority.
< 1288678467 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I said "that obviously doesn't work"
< 1288678481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally, let there be no clear road/people space boundary on the road areas: there is no place that cars "own".
< 1288678487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are there all the time, so drivers have to go slower.
< 1288678497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And keep it away from anywhere where people live, because of the damn noise!
< 1288678502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: And then, to meet the needs of everyone:
< 1288678515 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there are few people walking around at night, then drivers speed up, but there is one person walking there...
< 1288678515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Very regular entrances into a fast, underground railway system.
< 1288678525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Should never be more than five minutes away from a station.
< 1288678528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem solved!
< 1288678536 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What you're describing is to be found in parts of India, I think.
< 1288678547 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less the underground, not sure.
< 1288678565 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEAN, on the other hand...
< 1288678585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :City is free of noise pollution, you can walk around nicely, bicycles have lots of open space to ride in, people who really want to use cars to get into the city or whatever can go via the to-the-side roads, and inside the city, non-bicyclists who want to go a long distance can just hop on the tube.
< 1288678632 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsleep can last for 30sec?
< 1288678634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Oh, and of course, for inter-city transport, you have fast railways -- think Japan -- and also long motorways.
< 1288678635 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1288678666 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Brave New World.
< 1288678674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Randy Gardner's not-sleeping was in the name of science.
< 1288678684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Is that meant to be a rebuttal?
< 1288678689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I hope he got an A for it.
< 1288678699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: F for Fucking Insane.
< 1288678709 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It depends on whether you like socialism without free-market-driven progress.
< 1288678756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Okay -- so basically you see something you consider evil socialism, and immediately reply "Gee, Huxley", with no apparent justification or meaning.
< 1288678768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the invisible hand obscuring your vision?
< 1288678854 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I see something I consider good, beneficial socialism, and Immediately reply "Gee, Huxley", leaving it to you to provide your own justification as to whether you think it's a good thing or not, and relying on the self-evident meaning in invoking his work.
< 1288678867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1288678868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I read
< 1288678869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: It depends on whether you like socialism without free-market-driven progress.
< 1288678870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was
< 1288678874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fuck you, free markets!"
< 1288678888 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, no. I meant it's only a rebuttal if you disagree with me. ^_^
< 1288678915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It's a very slippery-slope argument, to go from government-funded transport and city organisation to a futuristic, hedonistic dystopia.
< 1288678932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean to use the book as a keyword for it.
< 1288678946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Anyway, who said the railways weren't run by corporations? :)
< 1288678976 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this... thing, as a child, and still a little now, where if I didn't put my hand on my chest, I'd be worried about whether or not my heart's still beating
< 1288678986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: As for market-dictated city plannings... take a look at New York's power grid in the 1890s, on the left: http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/wires.jpg
< 1288679007 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe I don't consider hedonism inherently evil. I think the only problem with that world (other than those the book addresses, the loss of culture, etc.) is that a free market, or some form of competition is necessary for social progress because it provides the motivation for people to innovate.
< 1288679022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am very sceptical of the idea that unrestrained markets can develop all beneficial social institutions. :)
< 1288679035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I approve of the idea of a market with competition; however, I do not approve of the idea of an unregulated one.
< 1288679046 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's fair.
< 1288679062 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I used to have something similar. I also didn't believe my heart beat while I slept.
< 1288679070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unregulated free-market capitalism is basically corporatism, sadly, and the political power of your dollar falls down after a corporation becomes big enough.
< 1288679116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free market supporters seem to say "well, corporations won't get big enough!" and then when all the instances of unregulated corporations get big enough are presented, they say "well, that market wasn't *totally* free" as if somehow, increasing the freedom of a market makes it more and more terrible until it's totally free, at which point it becomes perfect.
< 1288679131 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your heart is now beating manually.
< 1288679143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It isn't, but I'm now breathing and blinking manually.
< 1288679146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I am too tired to do!
< 1288679204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I also think that absolute pure anarcho-capitalism is possibly the worst thing that could happen.
< 1288679236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because when you go that far down the rabbit hole, you start having to pay a corporate police force to protect you. And if they don't want to get involved and you die, well... who's gonna stop them?
< 1288679259 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I sort of resent the term "free" applied to the free market, because it *means* "free" as in "unrestricted", but it *implies* "free" as in "freedom", which proponents use to their subtle advantage in promoting it, as though a non-free market inherently bars people from their inalienable right to buy and sell shit in an unregulated fashion.
< 1288679270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Fully agreed.
< 1288679278 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would love it if some form of anarchy could be made to work well
< 1288679280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It is one of those loaded terms like "pro-life"/"pro-choice".
< 1288679281 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I highly doubt it
< 1288679298 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Chaos coalesces into order and might makes right.
< 1288679302 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libertarianism is an interesting study, but I don't think it would work
< 1288679306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Anarchy could probably work with technology.
< 1288679319 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, it's more that I hate centralization
< 1288679322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody's fully realised, yet, just how much the Internet change everything.
< 1288679324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*changes
< 1288679325 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My jargon meter just went off. Care to elaborate?
< 1288679332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: To which line?
< 1288679338 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Both, actually.
< 1288679354 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in your specific example, however, if news got out that a police force was not providing protection, it would lose customers
< 1288679360 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least so the libertarian theory goes
< 1288679360 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I recall someone saying "You'll be hailed as an innovator if you centralise everything that's decentralised, and decentralise everything that's centralised."
< 1288679372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and what if the police force decided to club the valiant reporter to death?
< 1288679379 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds Scott Adams-esque
< 1288679383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly they're clubbing all their opponents to death, and they are the only one with power.
< 1288679391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what that is?
< 1288679393 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then the other police forces have to intervene
< 1288679397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totalitarianism.
< 1288679400 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this shouldn't happen
< 1288679401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: This one happens to be the biggest.
< 1288679404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it wins.
< 1288679406 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the police forces don't want to fight
< 1288679419 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There are enough so that no single one is big enough to take on the rest
< 1288679420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Exactly -- so when one of their clients is about to get brutally murdered, they don't get involved.
< 1288679431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, I am not convinced there would be enough.
< 1288679437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Police fighting police would be interesting.
< 1288679439 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Neither am I
< 1288679478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I am trying to find a little blog post I find explains my pipe-dream rather well.
< 1288679488 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But the idea goes that let's suppose police force A is about to kill police force B's client.
< 1288679507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: police force B tells police force A of this, and rather than fight, they settle it (ideally with an independent adjudicator)
< 1288679515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: http://r6.ca/blog/20050621T184100Z.html I don't agree with this entirely; direct democracy scares me. But it's an illustration, albeit incomplete and flawed, of how technology can change social structures...
< 1288679523 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where the system breaks down in my mind
< 1288679541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: right
< 1288679541 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insurace comapnies show that adjudication like that is dangerous
< 1288679567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like governments, corporations are something everyone should innately distrust
< 1288679570 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh man, that funding rule
< 1288679578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with anarcho-capitalism... this becomes more or less impossible
< 1288679581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That rule nearly brought down the government in 2008
< 1288679596 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I have inteded to raise the point with a libertarian friend
< 1288679596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Are you pro or against? :)
< 1288679608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The funding rule; I know nothing of it.)
< 1288679613 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Undecided
< 1288679623 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part that nearly brought down the government was that they tried to get rid of it
< 1288679627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Parties get funding related to the number of votes they get, and corporate donations have been all but eliminated." -- this, in its pure form, sounds wonderful to me.
< 1288679632 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the opposition parties were like "no"
< 1288679637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah
< 1288679641 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that part is good
< 1288679669 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, they aren't gone entirely
< 1288679684 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's probably why the Cons wanted to repeal that provision - they are fans of corporations
< 1288679701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1288679702 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288679708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I said is right
< 1288679722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the rest is necessarily right
< 1288679740 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will reduce the degree to which government decisions are made at arm's length from the population, hopefully
< 1288679748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they won'd be made solely by the people
< 1288679755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: As you are Canadian, I want to share another thing Russell O'Connor has done:
< 1288679758 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*won't
< 1288679780 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, the Pirate Party approved our first official candidate today!
< 1288679801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro:
< 1288679801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20040603T005300Z.html
< 1288679802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20060122T172700Z.html
< 1288679802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20060125T200600Z.html
< 1288679802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20060217T201200Z.html
< 1288679802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20081016T174811Z.html
< 1288679803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20081107T061447Z.html
< 1288679806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow
< 1288679808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: read from top to bottom (they're short)
< 1288679811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're short :P
< 1288679819 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man true timestamps
< 1288679821 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a fan
< 1288679831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: of course, as it says, the votes that the simulated elections are run with aren't accurate
< 1288679835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: since they include tactical votes
< 1288679843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but in a stochastic system, tactical votes would not be beneficial at all
< 1288679849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and so the votes made would be different and the outcome different
< 1288679860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: still -- the idea is *very* intriguing and as a Canadian you may find the results interesting :)
< 1288679865 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BUT WHAT ABOUT THE COMMUNIST PARTY
< 1288679878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the probability of it ever being adopted is *zero* because stupid people don't understand probability
< 1288679890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TURN OUR ELECTIONS INTO A DICE ROLL?! YOU ANTI-DEMOCRATIC MONSTER!""
< 1288679893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*!"
< 1288679899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, read those posts :)
< 1288679972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: interesting
< 1288679981 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in the context of Canada
< 1288679992 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where our governments have a surprisingly strong 'old boss same as new boss' tendency
< 1288680004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you guys have a bit of a depressing political system
< 1288680006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats the usa though
< 1288680027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: don't you want to swap new and old there? :)
< 1288680047 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does it matter?
< 1288680052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i like how since coppro's started talking it's changed from a mainly me and you conversation into a mainly me and coppro conversation
< 1288680054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, but it reads better :)
< 1288680065 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually, the strong consistency does have its benefits
< 1288680068 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, consistency
< 1288680068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and as it is there it makes it look like you're going back in time
< 1288680089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also have a hell of a public service that typically the government listens to (except, apparently when it regards the census)
< 1288680096 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Whether the independent adjudicator is independent, corporate, or government, it still must exist. The system doesn't "break down" per se.
< 1288680142 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: The problem is that the libertarian idea is removing a single point of failure
< 1288680146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what public service are you referring to? tired :)
< 1288680153 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Canada's
< 1288680159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i mean, which... i mean name
< 1288680160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1288680164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thoughts are becoming incoherent! \o/
< 1288680165 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |
< 1288680165 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /'\
< 1288680169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw, it's not the libertarian idea
< 1288680170 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh, the public service?
< 1288680175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh i misparsed
< 1288680177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the anarcho-capitalist idea
< 1288680178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ancap
< 1288680187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libertarian is anarcho-capitalist with a police force and military :)
< 1288680193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is significantly difference
< 1288680194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*different
< 1288680197 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1288680199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the government claims a monopoly on coercive force
< 1288680211 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in any case
< 1288680213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is less dangerous (but still shitty for other reasons)
< 1288680215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no to what?
< 1288680221 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The government *is* the bastion of coercive force, effectively.
< 1288680229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but --
< 1288680233 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your assertion that libertarianism has a single police force and military
< 1288680238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an ancap situation, you have multiple competing police forces
< 1288680240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN ANY CASE
< 1288680243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a libertarian situation, you have one police force
< 1288680252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's true! that's what differentiates the two
< 1288680256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libertarian has a minimal government
< 1288680261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ancap is anarchy -- no government by definition
< 1288680278 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with multiple competing police forces, you can avoid conflict because it is not in the police forces' interest to have direct conflict
< 1288680311 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, there will be a small number of police forces (let us suppose for the sake of the argument that the number of significant forces is at least in the tens, which, given human nature, is unlikely but possible)
< 1288680320 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288680345 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can actually see ancap working out if it had sufficient time to incubate before being subject to external influences. If they need to defend from invasion, they band together to do it and disband when it's over, on the principle that everyone does fine individually but everyone benefits from not getting royally fucked over by another country.
< 1288680353 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initially, each police force might resolve differences with each other force differently
< 1288680359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even aside from the unstable society
< 1288680368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ancap would be inhumane
< 1288680380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't find work in a, by definition, ridiculously competitive work environment?
< 1288680382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DIE!
< 1288680389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got cancer? FUCK YOU, PAY UP!
< 1288680392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, a single force would gravitate towards increasing efficiency and consistency by adopting a single system of dealing with other police forces
< 1288680394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't afford food? Why not starve?
< 1288680414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: part of ancap relies on the existence of private philanthropists
< 1288680418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and no, charities can't just wish for donations and solve it all... when money is that important, how many people will give it up for others?)
< 1288680426 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, it depends on what you consider "society". Sure, leadership and governance and that would all be ad-hoc and arbitrary. But the stability of a social situation depends largely on the morals of the people involved, and almost all people basically work under the principle "don't be a jerk".
< 1288680430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sure... i don't think they'd be nearly common enough.
< 1288680436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: haha
< 1288680441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If it became a social norm for rich people, it might
< 1288680443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I would love to believe that people are fundamentally nice.
< 1288680451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, sorry, selfishness takes over at some point.
< 1288680465 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in any case, as the police forces gravitate towards a single system, this system eventually becomes your single point of failure
< 1288680469 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I never said that people are fundamentally nice, but it's also absurd to claim that there's anything fundamentally *wrong* with people.
< 1288680491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: there isn't. selfishness is just a fact
< 1288680509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a sane governmental system uses this to its advantage, and stops it being dangerous
< 1288680520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets it be expressed in a capitalist system so we get innovation and nice things
< 1288680523 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: according to wikipedia, we're both wrong
< 1288680526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it stops it interfering with people's wellbeing
< 1288680535 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Of course, look at, oh, ecology. You're selfish to the extent that you can be without destabilising the system around you. Anything that causes the system to become unstable eliminates itself automatically.
< 1288680537 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anarcho-capitalism is a subset of libertarianism
< 1288680540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, yse
< 1288680542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes
< 1288680547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: like nazism is etc.
< 1288680550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not that extreme
< 1288680554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ancap is basically libertarianism to the max
< 1288680575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: of course, but society doesn't have the same sort of safeguards as nature really
< 1288680592 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, you were clear on libertarianism supporting minimal state
< 1288680592 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is not necessarily true
< 1288680592 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, it is in fact okay to admit wrongessness once in a while
< 1288680598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, i mean
< 1288680602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone says
< 1288680606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am a libertarian."
< 1288680608 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Interesting to note that libertarianism is a strict superset of ancap. But isn't every set a superset of the empty set?
< 1288680612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as their entire political philosophy
< 1288680613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what they mean
< 1288680616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "essn" wat
< 1288680622 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott was wrong?
< 1288680624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have a counterexample
< 1288680626 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is crushed.
< 1288680628 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *wrongnessness
< 1288680636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do you see the [007F]s?
< 1288680640 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no
< 1288680643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see:
< 1288680645 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Society *does* have the same safeguards as nature *except* when totalitarian agriculture is involved.
< 1288680650 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Read some Daniel Quinn.
< 1288680652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrongess[007F][007F][007F]ness
< 1288680656 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1288680662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i know it has safeguards, just not the same
< 1288680667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1288680673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i do admit i'm wrong, i just don't think i was wrong here :)
< 1288680692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"libertarianism" as referring to a distinct place on the political spectrum is perhaps a loose use of terms, but it's obvious what i was using it to mean
< 1288680705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the most useful definition of that term when used to define a specific point on the spectrum rather than a whole spectrum in itself, in my opinion
< 1288680728 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are/were on a defensive "ohshithesgotfactsthatcontradictmyviewmustmitigatelosses"
< 1288680737 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this because I do this all the time, so I can recognize it
< 1288680737 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I just say that I'm experiencing a nerd head rush from carrying on a lucid, sophisticated, intellectual conversation with people who seem to be largely my junior?
< 1288680746 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: yes
< 1288680752 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION says so.
< 1288680754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: perhaps i am acting the same as if i was, but actually, i had *already loaded the wikipedia page* long before you mentioned it
< 1288680763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and i stand by my usage of the terminology in this case
< 1288680767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then my statement goes double
< 1288680783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pops this conversation
< 1288680785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: whatever, i'm uninterested in arguing the point -- but i have always used the term libertarian to mean two things, the philosophy and the particular point
< 1288680792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and i am not going to stop doing that, because many people do
< 1288680794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Libertarian Party
< 1288680796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of USA
< 1288680799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses it in that sense
< 1288680820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, arguments about terminology are *stupid*, there aren't any facts in terminology whatever wikipedia says imo :) and that goes for *every* term
< 1288680824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just what's most useful
< 1288680825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes
< 1288680827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop conversation
< 1288680833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<evincar> Can I just say that I'm experiencing a nerd head rush from carrying on a lucid, sophisticated, intellectual conversation with people who seem to be largely my junior?
< 1288680839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, what about me? i'm sleep-deprived
< 1288680851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not quite a head rush so much as a... head the-bends
< 1288680856 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right you are. That says nothing of the actual members of the Libertarian Party, however...there's a large congregation of them here in the Northeast, and they're known for causing a certain amount of trouble, politically and legally.
< 1288680857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo i'm monologuing
< 1288680861 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: how old do you think I am?
< 1288680878 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I have no idea. In your twenties, probably?
< 1288680878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro has always been 16 and always will be
< 1288680884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro's 18 :p last i checked
< 1288680886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was never
< 1288680887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think 18
< 1288680888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget
< 1288680894 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, still younger than me then, if you're right.
< 1288680900 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was playing it safe.
< 1288680909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is correct
< 1288680909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't take my word for it i don't actually know
< 1288680913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok take my word for it :P
< 1288680923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was extrapolating from in high school recently + then in university
< 1288680932 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes coppro's word that elliot's word is correct.
< 1288680947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWO TS
< 1288680949 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, I'm the geezer in here.
< 1288680952 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless Sgeo_ is older.
< 1288680954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BerserkButton
< 1288680966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_ is 20 or 21, although i find it almost impossible to convince myself of this fact
< 1288680970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 i think
< 1288680983 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, fairly typical IRC age range, then.
< 1288680991 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I might be biased.
< 1288681000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you were in here in 2008 right?
< 1288681004 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only chats I've ever joined have to do with deep, heady things.
< 1288681008 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288681009 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, 2007 or 2008.
< 1288681011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i talked to you when i was 12! hahaha! although i was a bit of an idiot
< 1288681021 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember that.
< 1288681024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird
< 1288681029 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah!
< 1288681030 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1288681036 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were...precocious?
< 1288681041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: aw great, now you've associated me with that guy :)
< 1288681044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did i do that?
< 1288681056 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my view, part of the problem with libertarian groups in general is that they tend to contain both people who believe that the correct social structure has little/no government and are willing to carry on lucid, intellectual, well-thought-out arguments about why this is the case and how they intend to implement it.
< 1288681059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've evolved from precocious to just being a dick
< 1288681064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my defence, people are idiots
< 1288681069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm not actually this misanthropic!)
< 1288681070 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am fully aware that people can evolve, my friend.
< 1288681079 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and people who just hate the fucking cunts in the motherfucking government
< 1288681081 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've changed drastically in the past month, since leaving my girlfriend.
< 1288681086 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so much happier.
< 1288681103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i was so confused before you added that correction
< 1288681106 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the same goes for communist groups too
< 1288681107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like "..okay"
< 1288681108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*...
< 1288681132 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who believe that the correct social structure is one of very strong government... and a bunch of ditto marks
< 1288681146 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, do you want a laugh?
< 1288681148 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google canadian action party
< 1288681155 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho ho.
< 1288681166 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows about this already.
< 1288681168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting just how far apart and yet close statist communism and anarchic communism are
< 1288681181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i am not entirely sure the transition from the first to the second could or would ever happen, ever :)
< 1288681196 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: are you Canadian?
< 1288681205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :american, unless i'm mistaken
< 1288681209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love answering other people's personal questions
< 1288681214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, he's in america now
< 1288681216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~HOSTNAME POWAH~
< 1288681227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: canadian action party sound fun
< 1288681228 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: elliot's right, but living in New England gives me a pretty good sense of things, I think.
< 1288681239 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to move to Canada in a few years.
< 1288681245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWO
< 1288681246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOTHER
< 1288681247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING
< 1288681248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TS
< 1288681258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ahem*
< 1288681259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1288681272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you should move to europe, it's nice here! (note: i am not in one of the nice parts of europe)
< 1288681274 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's what I get for mistyping, incorrectly correcting, and failing to just use tab-complete.
< 1288681283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although immigration into the EU is probably non-trivial
< 1288681314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: one of our nationalist political parties has clearly read http://zapatopi.net/belgium/
< 1288681315 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd like to live somewhere in the south of England, or in the north country of France.
< 1288681345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: no. you do not want to live in england.
< 1288681347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: trust me.
< 1288681351 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Speaking French gives me a certain fraction of French nationalism, not to mention I have French Canadian heritage (though I hate Québécois accents.)
< 1288681355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: maybe cornwall. but england: no.
< 1288681366 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Go on...
< 1288681379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: our political climate is horrible
< 1288681384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our weather is horrible
< 1288681391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we seem to have a ridiculous proportion of assholes in the population
< 1288681397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not a very pleasant country :)
< 1288681437 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How's the politics and culture surrounding gender identity and sexual orientation?
< 1288681487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have civil unions instead of gay marriage. there is a lot of homophobia and the like, and of course there is everywhere, but there's gonna be a lot more than in sweden or whatever
< 1288681491 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Obviously, I'd've got more of an impression of this if I'd looked more seriously into living in the UK in the near future.
< 1288681504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know of any transphobia but then i don't know of much transphobia *anywhere* since it's such an ignored topic
< 1288681510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i doubt most people even know of it
< 1288681522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i mean okay, generally people here are nice because... everywhere people are nice
< 1288681530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uhh
< 1288681537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so hard to give a balanced idea of your own country!
< 1288681546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ok, you know how you're in the us, and top on your list of plans is "move outside the US"?
< 1288681558 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Very true. I know a couple of transsexuals who also dress, and they can get by totally under the radar because people just don't know about it.
< 1288681560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't want to do the interesting things in your life in the US?
< 1288681568 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, not as such.
< 1288681573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: that's what you said! :p
< 1288681574 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, wait.
< 1288681576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less
< 1288681583 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was in response to the first thing.
< 1288681586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm in the USA but I'm moving to Canada ASAP."
< 1288681588 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't want to just escape the US.
< 1288681596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wording this terribly
< 1288681598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff tiredness
< 1288681602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ok what i'm trying to say is
< 1288681608 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only want to move to Canada because I like French culture and because there are tax incentives for game developers. :P
< 1288681621 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, y'know, socialised health care, recreational marijuana, whatever.
< 1288681626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much for open source :)
< 1288681639 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I even smoke marijuana with any regularity or frequency.
< 1288681675 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I love open source. I also love making money. The two are not incompatible. I'll release everything I can freely.
< 1288681695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see many open source games with good sales
< 1288681733 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's nothing to say I can't release the source after the game has run its lifetime.
< 1288681747 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can release the engine and make the media proprietary
< 1288681754 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the levelsets)
< 1288681757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iulNvamNzeg#t=40s
< 1288681759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: watch this for a laugh
< 1288681767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (start from the beginning if you have the attention span)
< 1288681771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DROD has experienced modest success under this strategy
< 1288681776 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I do have a solid engine that I wouldn't even need to open-source, just make the API available and people would be pretty happy.
< 1288681796 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: even better from a financial point of view
< 1288681796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I oppose copyright, basically, so I can't support you I'm afraid :) but it's better than most game selling models at least.
< 1288681815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch the basically, i oppose copyright
< 1288681826 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you oppose commercial copyright?
< 1288681832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: clarify your term
< 1288681841 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Intense speech.
< 1288681852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: intense and idiotic :)
< 1288681854 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: copyright law used to prevent someone from making money off of another's work
< 1288681866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: if you keep listening you'll eventually hear him saying that belgium is "not even a real country"
< 1288681875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is possibly the funniest thing i've ever heard
< 1288681878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i repeat, http://zapatopi.net/belgium/
< 1288681890 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Basically a non-country".
< 1288681894 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut
< 1288681896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: yeah, that
< 1288681905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: read that page, it's amusing :)
< 1288681915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well. you already see GPL'd software being sold legally but shadily
< 1288681921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: all over the place
< 1288681929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and while it's legal (sometimes not, but let's ignore that for now), it isn't a huge problem
< 1288681935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: few people get suckered into it
< 1288681941 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I mean something like me starting a bookstore where I sell other people's books at only the printing costs and never give the author a red cent
< 1288681956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's basically like selling someone else's free ffmpeg wrapper.
< 1288681963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: which happens. and is mostly legal
< 1288681981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but is not a problem
< 1288681984 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the books in this case are not free for others
< 1288681999 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you are okay with creators being forced to compete with reproducers?
< 1288682002 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is 21
< 1288682007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes they are; there's no copyright, so any book that is sold would just be reproduced online immediately
< 1288682019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: let me find something pertinent for you
< 1288682022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Copyright exists.
< 1288682031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not in my hypothetical world, it does not
< 1288682033 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I find it remarkable that your views on copyright are so liberal, after the discussion we just had.
< 1288682039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: why?
< 1288682062 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I perceive a contrast, but there may not actually be one.
< 1288682070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I accuse you of committing a fallacy
< 1288682082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: so you are okay with creators being forced to compete with reproducers?
< 1288682084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please read this http://diveintomark.org/archives/2009/10/19/the-point
< 1288682090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very nice, and enlightened, view on these kinds of things.
< 1288682096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is even to do with books!
< 1288682120 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, never mind, I was mistaken.
< 1288682134 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chalk it up to the hour or something.
< 1288682137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: what contrast did you perceive, just of curiosity?
< 1288682170 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you were advocating rather strongly against anarcho-capitalism and libertarianism alike, no?
< 1288682175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is that
< 1288682187 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I do believe that many creators will create for the joy of creating
< 1288682190 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure do
< 1288682191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: indeed
< 1288682192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: indeed
< 1288682195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*drop one of those
< 1288682201 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it is far easier to go about this creation if I'm paid for my work
< 1288682203 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but that's that one person's choice
< 1288682209 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Creators gonna create.
< 1288682212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I still believe that a commercial incentive could be made to create creative works
< 1288682228 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I do not have time to work on open-source stuff right now
< 1288682236 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all
< 1288682250 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So I didn't take into account the capitalist aspect of that. I figured you'd like to be paid for your work, as a creative.
< 1288682256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: off the top of my head -- this probably wouldn't work, but if i can generate possibilities off the top of my head this easily... -- creator makes several excellent works for free, gets a reputation -- and then operates a donation system: once I get N donations, you get a new film/whatever on [date]
< 1288682257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How, if the creative work will instantly be distributed free and thus become worthless?
< 1288682265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: this probably would not work, but... it's an idea
< 1288682287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because we can't think of something perfect yet (and for all i know someone already has) doesn't mean we should stop trying
< 1288682295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i'm a free culture hippie :)
< 1288682300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: really it's all so... non-clear-cut.
< 1288682302 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, elliott: I think a balance like Creative Commons is really the solution here. :P
< 1288682305 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fair... for now
< 1288682313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not as sure as i portray myself
< 1288682324 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288682326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: even creative commons lets other people republish another's book and give them no money
< 1288682330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you count non-commercial
< 1288682337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bad license IMO
< 1288682344 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally, I would love to remove as much copyright as is possible
< 1288682344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no-derivatives is even worse)
< 1288682356 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I believe it needs to be done with care
< 1288682369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... for now i support the pirate party
< 1288682383 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's so bad about the non-commercial clause? I think it's reasonable to assert that work that you intend to be free ought to always remain free, even in derivative form.
< 1288682383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as wimpy and unrevolutionary as they have turned out to be, it's better than what we have now :)
< 1288682392 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even then, someone can always obtain the permission of the creator.
< 1288682393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you have mixed up free and Free
< 1288682400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an easy mistake, considering how stupid the terminology is
< 1288682406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try libre, it's obnoxious but will help sort out your sentence
< 1288682417 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I meant gratis, not libre.
< 1288682427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: gratis for both of them?
< 1288682429 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1288682437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: well.
< 1288682444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say someone has published a novel online
< 1288682447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i want a printed copy
< 1288682452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can easily go to lulu or whatever and make myself one
< 1288682459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if i want to give other people the opportunity to get one, too?
< 1288682463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason not to
< 1288682469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason to make other people to typeset it,
< 1288682474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go through the lulu process
< 1288682475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1288682482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i put it up for sale at lulu's *minimum price*
< 1288682484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see not a cent of profit
< 1288682495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people who want to read this free novel in print can do so for the cost of publishing it + some profit for lulu
< 1288682499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet a non-commercial license forbids this
< 1288682509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not view this as a good thing: this forced duplication of effort
< 1288682522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, "forced duplication of effort" summarises patents and proprietary software too!
< 1288682527 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Valid example. Subvert it with an addendum. Legal language is, after all, language.
< 1288682529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use this: you have to make your own. because i say so.
< 1288682539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you cannot make such an addendum meaningful
< 1288682543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very much a commercial use
< 1288682549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people (lulu) are profiting from it
< 1288682559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making money off what is primarily someone else's work without permission
< 1288682564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it is not wrong, it is a good service to offer
< 1288682573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commercial use doesn't mean commercial *ab*use
< 1288682585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't really distinguish the two when you get down to it, it is very subjective
< 1288682587 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NC except by permission", "NC except by (insert term defined as meaning 'derivative service' or some such)".
< 1288682596 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, looking at NC, you could do that
< 1288682602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: well, perhaps that would be better.
< 1288682608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is still *definitely* not libre like this.
< 1288682611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it more funny, lulu would be violating copyright
< 1288682612 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you would not be
< 1288682616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: heh
< 1288682623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but lulu will have TOS saying
< 1288682627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey you can't make us violate copyright
< 1288682629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in effect)
< 1288682633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd be breaking lulu's rules
< 1288682638 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably it will say you can't upload copyrighted material
< 1288682640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if this isn't legally enforceable they could still drop you.
< 1288682642 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1288682642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1288682647 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to look
< 1288682654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: a fundamental part of the definition of libre is that there is *no* discrimination due to fields of use
< 1288682658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: that includes commercial.
< 1288682702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a nice conversation
< 1288682722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so often interesting conversations are bogged down in trivial, silly debates underlying a larger point you want to get to
< 1288682732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we all seem to share some sort of bedrock of opinions which is helpful
< 1288682734 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, once again, free-as-in-beer conflicts with free-as-in-freedom.
< 1288682739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1288682744 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the case of lulu, technically you would be violating lulu's ToS by failing to license them the work
< 1288682753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i guessed something like that, yeah
< 1288682754 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And, you're right, this conversation is stimulating and the disagreement is lively rather than irritating.
< 1288682779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stalin and Hitler.png" best filename ever
< 1288682791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay not best but
< 1288682793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tired kay?
< 1288682804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: remember when we spent hours getting absolutely nowhere about copyright?
< 1288682807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was FUN*
< 1288682809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*note: not actually fun
< 1288682837 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, allow me to cite the relevant clause 4b:
< 1288682841 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may not exercise any of the rights granted to You in Section 3 above in any manner that is primarily intended for or directed toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation. The exchange of the Work for other copyrighted works by means of digital file-sharing or otherwise shall not be considered to be intended for or directed toward commercial advantage or private monetary...
< 1288682843 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...compensation, provided there is no payment of any monetary compensation in connection with the exchange of copyrighted works.
< 1288682849 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I recall
< 1288682888 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re: the lulu example, you're not in violation because you're not primarily intending or directing your actions toward commercial advantage etc.
< 1288682906 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, you don't violate copyright
< 1288682912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worse that could happen is lulu could terminate you
< 1288682930 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Okay, I just wanted to make sure I was understanding your argument correctly.
< 1288683012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should turn this into a computing flamewar
< 1288683033 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh oh!
< 1288683036 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I made a language.
< 1288683041 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, not quite finished yet.
< 1288683044 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, good news: The Pirate Party is close to running a candidate!
< 1288683058 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's designed to question the nature of computation, so it could be an interesting discussion starter.
< 1288683129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern computing is fundamentally badly designed, filesystems are a crock, and current systems are a mire of historical debris that don't respect the user.
< 1288683130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCUSS
< 1288683134 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Uh, provided anyone notices.)
< 1288683140 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by 'close', I mean that he needs to file nomination papers
< 1288683148 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's been approved and is ready to go
< 1288683175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love this channel
< 1288683231 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a hell of a good place to be.
< 1288683243 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1288683252 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there's nothing to DISCUSS. :P
< 1288683262 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is a bizarre bastion of mostly-erudite thought
< 1288683268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're all meant to disagree
< 1288683272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and defend the wonderful linux
< 1288683272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to, say, mathNEWS (shut up elliott))
< 1288683280 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens to balalaika music and can't wait to get a new one.
< 1288683283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO COPPRO HOW'S MY ARTICLE DOING IN THAT THAR PIPELINE
< 1288683284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to
< 1288683286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgive me
< 1288683289 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay
< 1288683297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already told you to shut up about it
< 1288683336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amusing to compare conversations like these to the rabble that goes on in here sometimes :)
< 1288683352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i am learning is: 4, 5, 6 am is when the cool people are on!
< 1288683362 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that was like 20 or 30 KB of a single conversation. :P
< 1288683368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ dd if=/dev/random of=foo bs=512 count=4
< 1288683368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0+4 records in
< 1288683368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0+4 records out
< 1288683368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :174 bytes (174 B) copied, 1.59379 s, 0.1 kB/s
< 1288683369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh wot?
< 1288683371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i asked for 2048 bytes
< 1288683377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder why dd is ... mysteriously giving up
< 1288683399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: unfortunately we're too busy talking about the conversation to converse any more
< 1288683409 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: iirc dd stops if /dev/random runs out of input
< 1288683413 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember why
< 1288683416 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, *I'll* bloody take charge.
< 1288683418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's retarded, do you know how to stop that?
< 1288683424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess cat /dev/random | dd if=/dev/stdin
< 1288683442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ cat /dev/random | dd if=/dev/stdin of=/dev/null bs=512 count=4
< 1288683442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :280 bytes (280 B) copied, 2.54588 s, 0.1 kB/s
< 1288683446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you dd
< 1288683455 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so would it be fair to distribute the major programming paradigms along an axis from "more imperative" to "more declarative"?
< 1288683472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: about as fair as the left/right political spectrum, which means: no but go on anyway
< 1288683473 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, any programming language. :P
< 1288683474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's a lie
< 1288683477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather reasonable really.
< 1288683484 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, well.
< 1288683485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not as a sole descriptor of a paradigm, obviously
< 1288683535 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sense of it is that functions encapsulate actions, therefore functional programming is inherently declarative in some sense, because actions, being the basic unit, become sort of implicit.
< 1288683550 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting argument
< 1288683569 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And objects encapsulate things, therefore imperative programming is inherently, well, imperative, because nouns, being the basic unit, become implicit as well.
< 1288683569 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you should come up here to Waterloo!
< 1288683573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: what is an action in lambda calculus?
< 1288683585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the lambda
< 1288683587 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Everything is an action.
< 1288683592 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bam
< 1288683605 0 :mimcpher!~mimcpher@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288683606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: unhelpful :)
< 1288683607 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x.x is the action of returning what you were given.
< 1288683612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: DAMN YOU WATERLOO PEOPLE
< 1288683619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mimcpher: You cannot take over!
< 1288683621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will revolt.
< 1288683624 0 :mimcpher!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REVOLT
< 1288683634 0 :mimcpher!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hello poofrosh
< 1288683635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ok, so every function in lambda calculus is the action of returning [f x].
< 1288683645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: that's not very helpful :)
< 1288683649 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In its canonical form, though.
< 1288683651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do i blame you?
< 1288683662 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: blame amstan
< 1288683665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who
< 1288683667 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not intended to be a useful statement as such, just a definition for what I'm going on to say.
< 1288683673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i see. well in lambda calculus' canonical semantics there is no returning, just rewriting
< 1288683684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your model is FLAWED! Mwahahaha! Give up now! okay carry on
< 1288683691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: is amstan that guy who came in a while ago
< 1288683703 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Allow me to simplify my language for the sake of not going mad, and trust that I do have some idea of what I'm talking about. :P
< 1288683703 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, he's just the guy we always blame around here
< 1288683708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're thinking dbelange
< 1288683715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was irritating :)
< 1288683720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're all irritating
< 1288683724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :die, all of you
< 1288683732 0 :mimcpher!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our sysadmins get complains about dbelange from random IRC servers
< 1288683733 0 :mimcpher!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1288683753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: go on :P
< 1288683759 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so we've got functional/declarative/verbal, and procedural/declarative/nominal. What's missing is an "adjectival" paradigm, in which the fundamental unit of computation is the *description*.
< 1288683804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML!!!1
< 1288683805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on.
< 1288683810 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would an adjectival programming language look like? I think it could not have just any measure of imperative versus declarative nature, because descriptivity is NOT orthogonal with the others.
< 1288683818 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a triangle, not two axes.
< 1288683821 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you will.
< 1288683828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a hypersphere!
< 1288683831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably.)
< 1288683834 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh...or a triangle.
< 1288683839 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288683840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Don't you mean a square?
< 1288683843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A triangle-shaped spectrum would be odd.
< 1288683862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Because, basically, the only totally-descriptivist language would be exactly in the *centre* of imperative vs declarative.
< 1288683874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the more imperative or declarative you get, the less descriptive you could possibly be.
< 1288683875 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not really. The language is defined by its relative proximity to three points.
< 1288683881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1288683884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then; go on.
< 1288683890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, my spell checker finally accepts "alright".
< 1288683920 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what I did was say: okay, everything is a "description", or, for the purposes of the language, a "property", which I'll shorten to "prop" for ease.
< 1288683944 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, a prop can "be" other props, or it can "have" them. It amounts to the same thing.
< 1288683965 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can imbue a prop with another prop, and you can test the props of a prop.
< 1288683998 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a typed adjectival language, a prop can also "be" a value, such as a number or an array or whatever.
< 1288684081 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, for props there is no real notion of ownership, so this leads to some interesting things about, say, defining functions.
< 1288684082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: coppro: why haven't either of you disputed my controversial statement about computing? sheesh
< 1288684087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay reading evincar's messages now
< 1288684095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ok so
< 1288684105 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pauses*
< 1288684108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prop = value * list(prop)
< 1288684135 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sort of. We are assuming a typed system.
< 1288684157 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Props are unordered, first of all, so they're more like sets, but as I said, there's no notion of "ownership" of props with which a prop is imbued.
< 1288684158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, values have types.
< 1288684163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prop = value * set(prop)
< 1288684166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: yes, but props have/be props
< 1288684171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that set is the list of props that this prop is
< 1288684180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: presumably you have a few primitive props?
< 1288684185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prop = value * set(prop) | awesomeness | yayness
< 1288684188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like
< 1288684193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you get what i mean; like "builtins")
< 1288684222 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Props have/be props, yes, but a prop-expression can also be treated as a prop on its own.
< 1288684267 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effectively you've got a directed graph, which can be cyclic, and also for which an edge can point to a group of nodes rather than just a single node.
< 1288684298 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you can model the last bit as just "A -> G -> { X, Y, Z, ... }" for groups.
< 1288684319 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a lot more fluid than just a set.
< 1288684334 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's transitive.
< 1288684344 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If A is B and B is C then A is C.
< 1288684379 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Further, the source of an edge can be a group of nodes, so you can imbue a prop-expression with props, as well.
< 1288684383 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So!
< 1288684391 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And this leads to the coolest syntax ever.)
< 1288684412 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can say [a divides b] means [b % a == 0].
< 1288684429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. i think
< 1288684439 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that imbues the prop-expression "[a divides b]" with the (builtin) prop "means", which refers to "[b % a == 0]".
< 1288684461 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288684471 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever you say "x divides y", if there's no match on x for y, then it looks at the meaning of the expression instead, and finds a match that way.
< 1288684490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will understand this a lot better with a spec, gotta say :)
< 1288684506 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So execution of a program in a purely adjectival language constitutes lots of ridiculous pattern-matching on a mutable directed possibly-cyclic graphlike structure.
< 1288684528 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, mutability isn't necessarily a requirement, come to think of it, but it'd be nice.
< 1288684544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: getting rid of mutability will make your execution model much more interesting -- that is my prediction
< 1288684557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tends to, since you lose a lot of the idea of evaluation order
< 1288684578 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It seems to be inherently parallel, this language.
< 1288684584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then state is even worse :)
< 1288684601 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd definitely want to go with implicit parallelism + monads.
< 1288684622 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads could be encapsulated in a builtin "then" property.
< 1288684622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We functional programmers support the separation of Church and state.
< 1288684629 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Cheeky.
< 1288684639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a strange definition of cheeky. :)
< 1288684665 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brash; offensively bold".
< 1288684677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a pun. I don't see the brashness.
< 1288684678 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I use it in a manner somewhat more synonymous with "saucy".
< 1288684692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oho, those saucy functional programmers.
< 1288684696 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether that's right or not is for the prescriptivists to decide.
< 1288684706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's certainly confusing :)
< 1288684721 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaanyhow, I'm not sure correctness is a decidable problem. ;)
< 1288684730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :)
< 1288684739 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now THAT was a pun.
< 1288684751 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that nothing else was.
< 1288684799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1288684800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288684816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was?
< 1288684825 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So...yeah, it's very much Lispy in the sense that you've got essentially no syntax (or only one syntactic element, technically) and the language is just a set of fundamental operations mushing around the graph of the program.
< 1288684844 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shudder to think what self-modifying programs would look like, but I imagine they would be frighteningly beautiful.
< 1288684865 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as in Lisp, the program could easily have inherent access to its own source.
< 1288684898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got annoyed enough with Midori that I installed Firefox. Sigh.
< 1288684915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Lisp doesn't really have that.
< 1288684933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has macros, sure, but a program can't say "(setq me '(exit))" or whatever.
< 1288684938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you use lukego's silly hack for that. :)
< 1288684956 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It has the notion of program as data, though, and you can traverse an expression-tree just as you traverse an ordinary list.
< 1288684962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1288684987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: The []s remind me of Nock (http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/nock-maxwells-equations-of-software.html), although it's clearly nothing like that.
< 1288684996 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the concept I meant to refer to, and there must certainly exist a parallel in a language that's very similar in spirit but based on an entirely different data structure and model of computation.
< 1288685009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It sounds like a nice language.
< 1288685018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It sounds like something that could be adapted into something "useful", too.
< 1288685037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I would be very interested in seeing what compilation tricks you could do to a no-builtin-state version.
< 1288685045 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, that's the frightening bit.
< 1288685066 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Compilation isn't something I want to think about. A nice, stringly-typed interpreter for me, thanks, just to get it working and done.
< 1288685081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stringly-typed -- like SNOBOL!
< 1288685083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1288685089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Tcl.
< 1288685104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It just sounds like the basic operation might actually be very efficient.
< 1288685107 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should prove your concepts in the fastest way possible for you, then polish them into the fastest possible thing for the computer.
< 1288685125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes; I'm talking specifically about compilation theory here.
< 1288685150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in... given a regular imperative CISC architecture, how efficient can we translate a bunch of applications of this one functional operation?
< 1288685289 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288685325 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder if the language has a single fundamental operation. :P
< 1288685337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Tree-traverse-rewrite-match-thing.
< 1288685340 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it can be made complete by isomorphism with Lisp.
< 1288685356 0 :mimcpher!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288685378 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was figuring search-and-rewrite-if-not-matched.
< 1288685409 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, push-search-and-rewrite-if-not-matched-then-pop. :P
< 1288685446 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it could be implemented easily in a language that's conducive to graph- or list-based pattern-matching.
< 1288685673 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, ever listen to Mika?
< 1288685684 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@elliott
< 1288685692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1288685700 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, graph-based pattern matching
< 1288685702 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds awesome
< 1288685726 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Believe me, using it as a basis for a language is the most awesome thing ever.
< 1288685732 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288685750 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, this is the first thing I've made that actually works whose implicationsI really don't fully understand.
< 1288685752 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: do you have any examples?
< 1288685756 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, must see
< 1288685788 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's not done, so I'm not releasing it yet, but I'm making it a priority, because it's cool.
< 1288685913 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please do!
< 1288685987 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, some imperative style that runs:
< 1288685989 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :range is from 1, to 100
< 1288685990 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a divides b] means [b % a == 0]
< 1288685992 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for n in range
< 1288685994 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if 3 divides n && 5 divides n
< 1288685995 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : output "FizzBuzz\n"
< 1288685997 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elif 3 divides n
< 1288685999 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : output "Fizz\n"
< 1288686000 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elif 5 divides n
< 1288686002 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : output "Buzz\n"
< 1288686003 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else
< 1288686005 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : output n, "\n"
< 1288686016 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm going with whitespace, even though I'm not a Python fan. :P
< 1288686051 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that graph-based?
< 1288686072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring
< 1288686072 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's subtle. The syntax deliberately masks it. If you were to remove the "to 100" property from the range, it would loop from 1 to forever.
< 1288686100 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, this is the worst example I could have given, isn't it?
< 1288686105 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want something weird.
< 1288686111 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, since every language and its brother can do that
< 1288686127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though I do like the declaration syntax of infix divide. That's cool
< 1288686330 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(a)] means [a]; [+ [a b]] means [a + b]; [* [a b]] means [a * b]; n is (+ (* 2 3) 5)
< 1288686342 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, I just implemented prefix notation.
< 1288686348 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorta.
< 1288686377 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gist of that example was to show how context-free grammars could be trivial to write.
< 1288686399 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it really easy to make DSLs.
< 1288686489 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's definitely cool
< 1288686505 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about the graph-basedness?
< 1288686545 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: See, this is me, demonstrating how I don't understand what I've made.
< 1288686562 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Let me try to come up with a better example.
< 1288686594 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1288686758 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Okay, two very simple examples. You can write optimisations for the language in the language itself.
< 1288686762 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a * 2] means [a + a]
< 1288686770 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All multiplications by two are now optimised into additons.
< 1288686776 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[a is const] x [b is const]] means [statically [a x b]]
< 1288686785 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy
< 1288686786 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All operations between two constants are now performed statically.
< 1288686802 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*additions
< 1288686811 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could quite possibly get as nuts as Feather
< 1288686815 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The syntax is speculative.)
< 1288686819 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but probably not)
< 1288686867 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You see, it's hard to come up with good examples. Graph-rewriting is definitely powerful, but it lacks succinct examples. It's obviously especially useful in the context of anything to do with programming languages.
< 1288686893 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think I sort of understand now
< 1288686912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... actually, this sounds like Feather except for the lack of retroactivity
< 1288686957 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: But the "means" property isn't the only trick the language has up its sleeve, which is what makes it even more useful.
< 1288687027 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh
< 1288687135 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could provide hints such as [a == b && b == c] implies [a == c], making the transitivity of equality explicit, and subject to possible optimisation.
< 1288687180 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, naturally, you could make an "implies" for a user-defined function.
< 1288687196 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where user-defined functions are naturally specified using "means", of course.
< 1288687877 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1288688327 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Totally unrelated note: what's with the abysmal state of pop music? I'm happy there are a few very innovative artists, but what the hell?
< 1288688598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1288688656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consultant, McAfee Associates, Jan. 1996-Aug. 1997, Mar. 1998-Mar 1999
< 1288688657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.
< 1288688657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ported McAfee’s VirusScan product from Microsoft DOS to SunOS, Solaris, Linux, and FreeBSD.
< 1288688657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.
< 1288688657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Designed and was principal programmer for WebShield, McAfee’s Linux-based antiviral firewall product.
< 1288688659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why god why
< 1288688681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [a divides b] means [b % a == 0]
< 1288688684 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Who?
< 1288688684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean [[b % a] == 0]
< 1288688696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, your addition of imperative features clouds the alnguage.
< 1288688706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[a is const] x [b is const]] means [statically [a x b]]
< 1288688710 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm indecisive. :P
< 1288688711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use x here to denote a placeholder
< 1288688715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet in "[a divides b]"
< 1288688719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divides was literal
< 1288688726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a way to distinguish the two syntactically
< 1288688734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: no, you're not; operator precedence is just silly in a language like this
< 1288688736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, who = David Parsons
< 1288688737 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was arbitrarily assuming that a..z count as placeholders.
< 1288688749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You could provide hints such as [a == b && b == c] implies [a == c], making the transitivity of equality explicit, and subject to possible optimisation.
< 1288688752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems arbitrary
< 1288688759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the semantics of "implies"?
< 1288688787 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It means that the expression can be rewritten as such, but need not be. It's "can means".
< 1288688823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: but if you rewrite [[a == b] && [b == c]] (you DO need the nesting, if these are *sets*) to [a == c] you lose the information that [a == b]
< 1288688828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't an equivalent transformation at all
< 1288688842 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if it helps the interpreter perform a rewrite, or if it's more efficient, then it's chosen, otherwise not.
< 1288688844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: can you tell me how this is at all different from term rewriting languages?
< 1288688887 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just looking at the two props "means" and "implies", it's not.
< 1288688915 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those nifty features are for transforming the graph. coppro asked about the graph-manipulating features.
< 1288688933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: are you sure you're not building five languages and then sticking them together? :)
< 1288688991 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can easily bring in other interesting things like inversion of properties, so saying "not white" actually implies any colour other than white, or anything in general, if you don't restrict it.
< 1288689013 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, I'm not sure of that, but it's where the philosophy is taking me right now.
< 1288689030 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just exploring the concept because I think it deserves to be explored.
< 1288689044 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get a clearer direction as I go along.
< 1288689146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stomach starting to hurt. breakfast soon
< 1288689158 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: An important thing seems to be that props can convey loads of semantic information about the program itself, because they're inherently descriptive. So you could have a "parallel" prop, or a "quickly" prop that tries to do things using SSE or in parallel as it sees fit.
< 1288689172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1288689268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1288689271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting tired already
< 1288689301 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, operator precedence is a pretty little addition that makes it nicer to use, and I see no reason why symbolic properators (coin!) can't default to having a precedence while named properties don't.
< 1288689309 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, they all share the same precedence level.
< 1288689310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: because if properties are sets
< 1288689320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then [a % b == 0] is the same as [% == a 0 b]
< 1288689326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other nonsense
< 1288689408 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not quite, no. It's inherently infix. All expressions are assumed to be of the form "expr prop", where "prop" can be "id expr" or "properator expr" and "expr" can also be "[ expr expr* ]".
< 1288689422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1288689430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Definitely scrap all this imperative nonsense, thoug.
< 1288689431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though.
< 1288689438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distill and refine your core concept -- that's the way to go.
< 1288689456 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I appreciate the advice, and I definitely take it to heart.
< 1288689474 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The imperative nonsense was me being wishy-washy. :P
< 1288689530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: In fact, I'm not convinced any sort of effect model does this paradigm well; it sounds suited to pure evaluation to me.
< 1288689539 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I implied before, I'm into existential bullshit, so I often spend a lot of time exploring the philosophical nature of something, going in totally the wrong direction with it while wandering, in order to feel that I have a deep enough sense of it to actually code it, when I probably should've just coded it from the beginning.
< 1288689587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1288689594 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, all of the effects would be internal, that's all. There has to be some notion of the current state of the graph from the interpreter's point of view.
< 1288689595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- Last failed attempt from: elliott!~Adium@phy-dhcp-34-229.mps.ohio-state.edu on Nov 01 14:06:56 2010.
< 1288689598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey -- would you look at that.
< 1288689601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Ohio fucker thinks he's me!
< 1288689612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But NO! I will defend this nick forever. Someday it will be valuable.
< 1288689677 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so attached to this nick in IRC, but you'll find me under the name "evincarofautumn" everydamnwhere else.
< 1288689700 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for a certain other persona that I'd like to keep separate from my public work.
< 1288689701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never been able to stick to a pseudonym.
< 1288689707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I change my mind about everything so much.
< 1288689722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Oh come on, you just know I have to try and find a link from evincarofautumn to some other guy on the web now.
< 1288689753 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good luck, I'll be interested. The only other instance I've seen of it was on an RPG Maker users' forum back in 2003 or so.
< 1288689770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Now you're giving me clues!
< 1288689789 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The site is defunct. I'm not sure even Sherman and Peabody could find it.
< 1288689807 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And...it's just a username, to me. It only carries a little bit of deeper meaning.
< 1288689951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes about configuring Iceweasel to not suck quite as much
< 1288690048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Talk more, this is boring! :P
< 1288690051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You too.
< 1288690059 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hah. Every single accessible Google result seems to pertain to me, anyway.
< 1288690075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered that that might not be a good thing?
< 1288690079 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I can't go past many pages.
< 1288690095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, you're one of three people to ever use infogami
< 1288690096 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, 7 pages in, it says I no longer have 22,000 results, but more like 70. :P
< 1288690110 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, I was using Markdown before it was cool.
< 1288690117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So Obama has been elected, and we've created an Obamanation. Hillary had no such luck; this is a Hillarious failure."
< 1288690119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a bad person
< 1288690128 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't I just?
< 1288690139 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I take it you're a Magic player?
< 1288690194 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, but only a bit. The "evincar" name is actually (as you may find explained somewhere online) a deliberate perversion of "evincer", a nonexistent word that supposedly means "one who evinces". My username therefore ought to be spelt with a cedilla on the C, and in fact is intended to mean "he who brings the autumn forth".
< 1288690206 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288690216 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So, coincidence. :P
< 1288690219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiredness setting in. fuckfuck
< 1288690234 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first word that comes to mind after 'evincar' to me is 'rath'
< 1288690238 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Keep at it. I intend to stay awake until the sun has set again.
< 1288690244 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rath's evincars...
< 1288690251 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1288690254 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I've heard that somewhere.
< 1288690255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the mome raths evincarred
< 1288690267 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know anything about Magic's BS backstory.
< 1288690279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: In the Magic universe, the evincars were a series of rulers of the plane Rath
< 1288690283 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although a recent cstheory.stackexchange.com question proved Magic is Turing-complete.
< 1288690296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: on only the second page of your name i see "xkcd"
< 1288690297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if memory serves, a card has evincar in the name
< 1288690297 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So NOW I KNOW.
< 1288690299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for shame, my friend.
< 1288690300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sham
< 1288690303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shame
< 1288690321 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288690326 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I joined the XKCD fora recently, so it must have been bumped up in the results because that site is so high-ranking.
< 1288690348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for shame
< 1288690361 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 4-shame.
< 1288690372 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, incidentally, I've decided to call this language, however it turns out, D-script.
< 1288690380 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since, you know, it's a delicious pun.
< 1288690389 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a fairly generic name that's also searchable.
< 1288690404 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thoughts?
< 1288690408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flertl
< 1288690410 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You too.
< 1288690445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh tree style tab is so close to perfection
< 1288690446 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Come to think of it, how will you know if a result doesn't pertain to me? Or will you just submit results to me for verification?
< 1288690447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it needs:
< 1288690449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- less nesting
< 1288690455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- every link opens in a new child tab BUT history is retained
< 1288690468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- previous history is retained, vertical scrollbar; as you scroll up, more history from the past
< 1288690484 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense.
< 1288690563 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: tree style tab?
< 1288690575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5890/
< 1288690586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice but i'm still not sure i can spare any of my 1366 horizontal pixels for it
< 1288690587 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1288690594 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288690633 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it seems I stand a pretty good shot of being the best non-professional balalaika player on YouTube, if I just get a webcam. The majority of the people who put up videos are fairly bad amateurs, or are only interested in traditional music.
< 1288690642 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288690703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPv9VZQkxJI this guy is hilarious, what is he even
< 1288690713 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are of course a few videos of pro players and orchestras and stuff, against whom I stand no chance whatsoever.
< 1288690728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the worst i have heard any instrument played
< 1288690744 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Old stuff. He's got presence at least.
< 1288690756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: he can't breathe properly
< 1288690759 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFmZfgiczho&NR=1
< 1288690775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better
< 1288690780 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Very good player, but falls into the category of "only wants to do traditional music".
< 1288690812 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an instrument that needs attention. I think it's got a great sound.
< 1288690823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like an asshole instrument :)
< 1288690826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the designers
< 1288690827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :designer
< 1288690828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever
< 1288690885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: SO WHAT HAPPENED TO PROG and god googlestalking is boring
< 1288690893 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not sure what you mean. It *was* originally a peasant instrument made out of a pumpkin. :P
< 1288690908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i mean the designer was an asshole who wanted to torture people who just wanted to make some music
< 1288690914 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Prog is in the feckin works, mkay? I just gave a talk about it a couple of weeks ago.
< 1288690914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making it impossible to play
< 1288690922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: THE LAST CHANGE WAS 200 DAYS AGO
< 1288690925 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's very easy to play, but hard to master.
< 1288690925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OVER
< 1288690976 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I quit using Subversion and sorta abandoned the SourceForge project because I wanted to move in a new direction with it. I got a basic compiler working, then decided that the operator precedence parser might not be the best idea and decided to rework it into an ANTLR grammar. :P
< 1288691005 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention the shitloads of stuff I've reworked for concurrency's sake, after spending this past year getting really acquainted with FP.
< 1288691075 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I've used Scheme and what have you enough, and I've always been comfortable with functional computing abstractions, but it wasn't until I read up on the Actor model and started preaching the benefits of immutability that I really truly got it myself.
< 1288691094 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang is beautiful.
< 1288691098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: erm, you do realise Scheme basically *debunked* the actor model?
< 1288691105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was its claim to fame?
< 1288691129 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I should probably have included "stuff like".
< 1288691158 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I went through shitloads of research articles and actual programs written in various languages and taking different approaches to concurrency and parallelism.
< 1288691167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It was originally created as a vehicle to explore the actor model. But then they realised that their code for procedures and actors were identical, and so they dropped the actor code, and everything worked fine.
< 1288691170 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm partial to implicit parallelism and monads, as I said earlier. :P
< 1288691171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actor model is silly.
< 1288691186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implicit parallelism is rather impractical; it was tried with Haskell but didn't work very well at all.
< 1288691204 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was tried? Is being tried. Is working just dandy, actually.
< 1288691221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: no
< 1288691228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you end up parallelising even trivial expressions
< 1288691233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a well-known result in haskell circles
< 1288691249 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There was some talk I watched in which the author of GHC discusses how he is solving those problems of granularity.
< 1288691276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the author" ahahaha
< 1288691277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one?
< 1288691326 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck, an author.
< 1288691351 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be getting loopy here.
< 1288691387 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Haskell definitely does sequential operations right, with monads, specifically encapsulating everything nicely in the type system.
< 1288691416 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want everything to be immutable, monads are how you need to handle sequence.
< 1288691472 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you could say I'm just stating "Haskell's way of doing things is the best way of doing things in Haskell".
< 1288691482 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure whether you'd be right.
< 1288691487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the high-echelon Haskell intelligentsia are dissatisfied with the IO monad.
< 1288691493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that monads aren't just about state and side effects...
< 1288691612 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Of course. Which Haskelligentsia in particular?
< 1288691622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conal Elliott is the main one.
< 1288691625 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By the way, I think it was Simon Peyton Jones in that lecture.)
< 1288691640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that if you say "Haskell with the IO monad is a purely functional language", then C is purely functional, too.
< 1288691650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The implication being *the IO monad is not functional, it is imperative*.
< 1288691665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is a functional way to do these things, FRP. Although nobody's quite figured it out yet :-)
< 1288691670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conal.net/blog/posts/the-c-language-is-purely-functional/
< 1288691676 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right, but who needs I/O? :P
< 1288691677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My first inclination was to suggest that Haskell, as commonly practiced (with monadic IO), is not a functional language either. Instead, I’m going to explain how it is that the C language is purely functional."
< 1288691823 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so did you get long mode running yesterday?
< 1288691831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yesterday? I haven't slept!
< 1288691837 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I wonder how scathing he intended this to be. It could be read as fun and light, but it could conceal some dark cynicism. :P
< 1288691837 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have!
< 1288691838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Wait, you've slept? But it went by so quickly...
< 1288691855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I decided, upon looking at your code, that what the fuck long mode is complicated and I love protected mode and my babies are all raised in a system of protectedm ode.
< 1288691859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*protected mode.
< 1288691869 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well, I didn't get much sleep tonight
< 1288691874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: He's not cynical, he just doesn't think the IO monad is functional, and he thinks that FRP is nicer. :)
< 1288691885 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A fair assessment.
< 1288691888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most plausible scenario in which I am still awake at midnight involves dubious amounts of cocaine. This is not reassuring.
< 1288691942 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't worry, it'll all be sorted out eventually. Hell, depending on how things go, you might be awake for the rest of your life.
< 1288691958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take the cocaine.
< 1288691961 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense of "set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life". :P
< 1288691977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured.
< 1288691982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After a few seconds of tired-induced dumbness.
< 1288692018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omg, Debian dropped support for 6800.
< 1288692024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyond unacceptable.
< 1288692046 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most complicated thing is to set up the page tables IMO, and that's not even that complicated
< 1288692108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but i'm a lazy, tired as hell fucker.
< 1288692169 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Misintoned that as "But I'm a-lazy, tired as hell-fucker". That is, right now you're lazying, because you're as tired as someone who fucks hell.
< 1288692193 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not necessarily "because", but at least "and also".
< 1288692195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you didn't parse that properly and then decide to misparse it? :)
< 1288692269 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: English grammar is ambiguous. You can't prove anything. >_>
< 1288692440 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write an esolang whose grammar is intentionally ambiguous, and whose parser decides between ambiguous expressions based on how amusing the result will be, rather than some arbitrary notion of "correctness" imposed by an ill-conceived attempt to implement DWIM.
< 1288692483 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather it will be an arbitrary notion of "humour" imposed by an ill-conceived attempt to implement...uh, line?
< 1288692577 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, save me!
< 1288692581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ejrio
< 1288692599 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not an English word. :/
< 1288692606 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I can't prove that.
< 1288692815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prescriptivist!
< 1288692830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: as futile as this quest is when one is so tired -- and as irritable as i am -- would you like to know of my current programming endeavour?
< 1288692852 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, if it keeps you awake and keeps me entertained, by all means.
< 1288692900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: define a minimal term rewriting language L; write a short implementation of L in Haskell and a short implementation of L in L
< 1288692904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the latter is not short, redesign and repeat
< 1288692912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aim for elegance on the level of the first lisp self-interpreter
< 1288692927 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A noble goal, and far better-defined than mine!
< 1288692950 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although what constitutes "short" is still subjective.
< 1288692956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course.
< 1288692971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am aiming for the kind of thing you might see in a Functional Pearl paper.
< 1288693030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: The language needs a name -- perhaps "deinate", after DE-term-ine and term-INATE
< 1288693050 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be interested to do some research into language minimisation like this. What is the minimal complete subset of L for which the self-hosted implementation is minimal?
< 1288693062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: btw for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_rewriting
< 1288693067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: wrt self-interpreting subsets,
< 1288693073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/pixley/
< 1288693090 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Already saw the graph-rewriting article, while I was desperately fishing for examples in that department.
< 1288693192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll call it dart
< 1288693202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the one-qwerty-sidedness of that may irritate me at some point :)
< 1288693211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck! no haskell-mode installed
< 1288693222 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I love how it's defined as meta-circular based on the fact that it's already a strict subset of Scheme. It seems like a cheat.
< 1288693234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i'm tired you DO NOT GIVE ME THE EMACS I DO NOT WANT, Operating System
< 1288693249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ ghci
< 1288693249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ghci: command not found
< 1288693251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASSHOLE
< 1288693252 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dart is a good name.
< 1288693253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1288693323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: see in my perfect os, when i tried to open an .hs file
< 1288693331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would go "ok, i don't know what an .hs is; I'll look it up"
< 1288693341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sees, on the network, that .hs = haskell-mode is the most popular thing
< 1288693348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would then obtain and use haskell-mode for me
< 1288693353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't have to goddamn install it myself fffffffff
< 1288693357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what tired does to me
< 1288693365 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd add an interstitial confirmation dialog that allowed me to pick an alternative.
< 1288693418 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.hs = haskell-mode. Install? (3 alternatives, y=install, n=more, x=cancel)
< 1288693430 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For y, n, and x of your preference.
< 1288693447 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't paid attention to any confirmation prompt in emacs for a long time.
< 1288693458 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all chords all the time.
< 1288693465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: no, because you could always just say
< 1288693475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i would like to use a different mode"
< 1288693479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would have suggestions for you
< 1288693489 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x wrong-fucking-mode-emacs
< 1288693490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no point prompting when a reasonable default can be picked, you can always override it
< 1288693496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: precisely
< 1288693510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, with elisp not exactly being secure and emacs sucking this will never happen :)
< 1288693516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the very concept of a *file* is stupid...
< 1288693526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so it's more like when you edit some text tagged as being haskell code or something, i guess
< 1288693534 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you'd prefer to be able to arbitrarily scribble on your disk? :P
< 1288693542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1288693550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you know how you have nice structures and objects and things in memory?
< 1288693557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're all rich and useful and aware of their own type?
< 1288693566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: instead of just byte streams associated with names?
< 1288693571 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, kinda.
< 1288693582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: yeah, you put those objects on the disk.
< 1288693594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and remove the artificial, historical RAM/disk address space distinction.
< 1288693601 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In reality, in both places, you have bytes that are not associated with names. :P
< 1288693611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1288693627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every bit of data in a program is reachable by some accessor unless it's garbage or not your data
< 1288693637 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The association is meta-information.
< 1288693639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, at least, every piece of data has a name -- *(type *)address
< 1288693646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you probably can't access most of them due to the security model
< 1288693713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: here's the whiny, pissed-offness-induced rant i wrote about it early this year: http://catseye.tc/ehird/files-suck.html
< 1288693725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is about as coherent as i would be if i tried to explain it in this state :)
< 1288693849 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So...you're saying that data of a certain type ought to have a canonical representation on disk? But...file formats are created for reasons other than circumventing the leaky abstractions of file systems.
< 1288693881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm too tired to talk about such a heated issue, sorry :)
< 1288693898 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does encoding and decoding PNG streams really belong in a filesystem driver module? :P
< 1288693904 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, okay.
< 1288693915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does encoding and decoding PNG streams really belong in a filesystem driver module? :P
< 1288693916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1288693927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to actually read the article, even if it is whiny :)
< 1288694049 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, carefully. If, say, PNG is the backing format of my image, and I query the filesystem to get at the image data, either the filesystem needs to decode it into the system's canonical representation of an image, or my application needs to decode it into whatever representation it sees fit. If you place it in the system driver, you've created a perfect abstraction at the cost of bloat,...
< 1288694050 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...even if the bloat is modular.
< 1288694059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no filesystem
< 1288694062 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you place it in the application, you have the same problem.
< 1288694064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are making an invalid assumption
< 1288694074 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean to say "there is no filesystem"?
< 1288694087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see section 3 of the rant
< 1288694097 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There has to be, at some level, a driver that manages the interaction between software and hardware.
< 1288694144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disk is big object space, ram is smaller object space acting as cache and temporary modification holding area of disk
< 1288694148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again see section three
< 1288694155 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter *when* the serialisation takes place, but at the hardware level, it has to happen.
< 1288694180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you understand
< 1288694196 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that the driver doesn't implement a "file system", but rather persistent storage of objects
< 1288694197 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, here's a use case, and you give me the underlying do-how.
< 1288694207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what olsner said
< 1288694221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, ram is simply a cache of a selection of objects from disk that are being used right now
< 1288694231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modifications to the ram copies automatically are synchronised to disk
< 1288694239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can refer to any object whether it's in ram or not, and it will be loaded from disk
< 1288694243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ram is managed by the os
< 1288694244 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, elliott: I understand that, but I'm asking how an application actually interacts with it.
< 1288694256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ok, here's an example
< 1288694261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say {} is an object
< 1288694272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myProgram = {masterpieces: {}};
< 1288694289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func myProgram.createMasterpiece(foo) { masterpieces.append(foo) }
< 1288694296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func myProgram.masterpieceNumber(n) { masterpieces[n] }
< 1288694304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func myProgram.editMasterpiece(n, foo) { masterpieces[n] = foo }
< 1288694307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create ui around that, etc.
< 1288694314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this object is automatically synchronised to disk
< 1288694318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so every masterpiece is stored on disk
< 1288694326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if masterpiece N is loaded, but it's not in ram
< 1288694328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets loaded from disk
< 1288694365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think olsner gets it :)
< 1288694435 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, but that implies that the names and identities of objects are inherent in the models and implementations of the languages involved. How does a C++ program accomplish the same thing without losing performance to the fact that its memory model is no longer just flat bytes, but some kind of associative store?
< 1288694454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: who says its memory model isn't flat bytes?
< 1288694458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internal representation is irrelevant here
< 1288694462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, in fact, forget C++ even exists
< 1288694472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad enough trying to explain this to people without thinking about that awful abomination too
< 1288694523 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: how objects look when loaded into programs is pretty much irrelevant to the idea, I think
< 1288694547 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes, but how do they get there and back?
< 1288694564 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :through an API, using abstractions
< 1288694580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: they don't
< 1288694584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the program's point of view
< 1288694585 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is what I was asking about, elliott.
< 1288694587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every object is always there
< 1288694598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because it hasn't referred to a list that's a property of one of its objects
< 1288694600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make it disappear
< 1288694602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even after a reboot
< 1288694603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is saved to disk
< 1288694605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is simply there
< 1288694609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you access it as a variable if it is a variable
< 1288694613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a property if it is a property
< 1288694616 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That only works in a language that is designed to support something similar.
< 1288694617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with [n] if it's a list member
< 1288694621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1288694622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are wrong
< 1288694635 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I was going to present you with an example.
< 1288694665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ok, imagine a program
< 1288694671 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a program that loads a PNG, performs a convolution on the image data, and outputs the result.
< 1288694673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stores data, in memory, a text editor that stores stuff in memory, let's say
< 1288694676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please, let me finish
< 1288694677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine that
< 1288694681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now imagine you never close down the program, ever
< 1288694689 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, if you had let me start in the first place...)
< 1288694690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you know the "hibernate" feature of all modern OSes?
< 1288694693 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1288694701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, you could hibernate as much as you want when running this program
< 1288694705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would still run just fine
< 1288694713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: now imagine we wanted to store more documents than we have RAM
< 1288694723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: imagine the computer is "constantly" hibernated -- the contents of RAM are constantly mirrored on disk
< 1288694726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: now imagine inverting this
< 1288694735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: "objects in memory" are considered to actually be on disk
< 1288694742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: and RAM is merely where they are loaded to, when they are referenced
< 1288694753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program still works, and it works even across total shutdowns
< 1288694757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can store more documents than fit into ram
< 1288694758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see now?
< 1288694759 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, I've understood that bit.
< 1288694793 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what I'm asking is what sort of API you would present, and how, from a programmer's point of view, it would actually change anything.
< 1288694803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't present any API
< 1288694814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exact same program that was written for a normal OS is used in the final stage, there
< 1288694927 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so a program that is designed around the concepts of loading and saving named files as unadorned byte streams will still work as expected.
< 1288694933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no!
< 1288694936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no filesystem api
< 1288694942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that stores data, in memory, a text editor that stores stuff in memory, let's say
< 1288694943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in memory*
< 1288694945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it NEVER touches any files
< 1288694950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is ENTIRELY in MEMORY
< 1288694955 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the same program that was written for a normal OS will NOT work. :P
< 1288694958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahiofASDfuigojdg
< 1288694966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE PROGRAM THAT WAS WRITTEN FOR A NORMAL OS WAS THE ONE SPECIFIC PROGRAM THAT I DESCRIBED
< 1288694969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT "ANY PROGRAM FOR A NORMAL OS"
< 1288694974 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1288694977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THAT* SPECIFIC PROGRAM, WHICH WAS WRITTEN FOR A NORMAL OS >_<
< 1288694979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capslock over
< 1288694984 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1288694988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame you for this :P
< 1288695005 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My pleasure. :)
< 1288695013 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not trying to be irritating.
< 1288695025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, and i don't hold it against you, it's just that you're succeeding :)
< 1288695032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: btw, this is not some new-fangled concept.
< 1288695035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the literature has done it to death.
< 1288695037 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just...disagree with you, but you seem to think I don't understand you, so I'm trying to make sure I do before I assert you're incorrect.
< 1288695042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think even freakin' *Multics* did it.
< 1288695052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 1969.
< 1288695090 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, alright...if I were to abstract "loading" as simply "the first read of an object, which implicitly brings it into working memory"...
< 1288695099 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..."editing" as working on a copy of that object...
< 1288695113 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and "saving" as commiting changes...
< 1288695118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: committing?
< 1288695120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no committing
< 1288695126 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...then would an ordinary program...
< 1288695129 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's not safe.
< 1288695135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms
< 1288695139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you take over, i'm done
< 1288695166 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, have to go to work :)
< 1288695167 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ability to decide when *not* to save your data is just as important as whether your data is retained.
< 1288695172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit olsner
< 1288695191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: how about drop this and talk about it when i've actually slept :)
< 1288695193 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, should've gone at least an hour ago
< 1288695194 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my documents are implicitly written to disk, how do I roll back changes? Are they versioned?
< 1288695197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i'm just going to get really annoyed.
< 1288695200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at your misunderstanding.
< 1288695222 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying very hard to get this.
< 1288695226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know
< 1288695230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't hold it against you :P
< 1288695244 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. I guess right now it's just one of those things.
< 1288695262 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's explained right, I'll get it, but until then, I feel as though it's a logical fallacy, or at least a bad idea.
< 1288695265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: trust that i'm right, though :)
< 1288695270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, you are misunderstanding badly.
< 1288695281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filesystems have poisoned your brain :)
< 1288695295 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I will not trust that you're right, only that you think you're right, and you may very well be, but I don't know that yet.
< 1288695312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if it helps, i am *far* from the only person to think this.
< 1288695342 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I'm saying now is that there needs to be control over revisions in order for persistent objects to retain the backup-safety of traditional filesystems.
< 1288695345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf haskell what f ijiojioj what is up with you my code is right
< 1288695349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: that is true, yes.
< 1288695357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: but i was discussing an "api" issue not a UI one
< 1288695358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1288695366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving on to things we can talk more productively about with my tiredness!
< 1288695371 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very well!
< 1288695383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DART
< 1288695386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT REWRITES TERMS
< 1288695392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : show (Conj xs) = map (\x -> '(' : show x ++ ")") xs
< 1288695394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND WHY DOES THIS NOT WORK
< 1288695422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see
< 1288695471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Show e) => Show (E e) where
< 1288695471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : show (Atom s) = s
< 1288695471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : show (Conj xs) = '(' : unwords (map show xs) ++ ")"
< 1288695472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there
< 1288695514 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bah, your error is obvious
< 1288695519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it was
< 1288695521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $//
< 1288695522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my defence
< 1288695524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't slept
< 1288695525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also your mom
< 1288695548 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I feel bad for not noticing it. :P
< 1288695576 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait.
< 1288695578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someRule :: (HoleyE, SolidE)
< 1288695578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someRule = (conj [atom "car", conj [atom "cons", hole "x", hole "y"]],
< 1288695578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : atom "x")
< 1288695580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo
< 1288695581 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, doing multiple things at once.
< 1288695585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay time to write unify
< 1288695586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ??
< 1288695603 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't worry about it.
< 1288695604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify :: HoleyE -> SolidE -> Maybe [(SolidE, SolidE)]
< 1288695605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1288695617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so tempted to rename it HolyE
< 1288695711 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sing it like this and you've got a deal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJlAop6SyLI
< 1288695730 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNK IT IS THE BEST DON'T YOU KNOW
< 1288695818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit! my unify function is almost written and it's so simpl;e
< 1288695820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*simple
< 1288695870 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional programming is always startingly simple.
< 1288695882 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my uncle is dying. :(
< 1288695893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of funk?
< 1288695895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry insensitive >__>
< 1288695904 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, of pancreatic cancer, but you're close.
< 1288695910 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, it's cool.
< 1288695922 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very easily offended.
< 1288695922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have pancreatic cancer." "Oh. I'm in a funk band." "Ouch, sorry man."
< 1288695930 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah.
< 1288695944 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a reason that funk has "fun" in it, though.
< 1288696016 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Quote from a friend of mine from his professor: '...teaching the Juniors about buttons: "Why does the download arrow point down? Because the internet is above us. Go outside, look up, and you'll see it."'
< 1288696038 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as good a justification as any.
< 1288696064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow.
< 1288696072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love that
< 1288696136 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, another friend of mine just got a tragus piercing, which looks way cooler than it ought to.
< 1288696159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh piercings
< 1288696206 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not into piercing enough to get anything done. Same with tattoos. Although I hope to get my tattoo license some day.
< 1288696229 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means I'll basically have to practice on myself if I want to get practice on skin.
< 1288696232 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288696234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find all piercings and tattoos unattractive. :/
< 1288696237 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I have a very tolerant partner.
< 1288696265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
< 1288696265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Maybe [(String, SolidE)]'
< 1288696265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `zipWith', namely `unify'
< 1288696267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... fuck you
< 1288696274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh
< 1288696275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see
< 1288696432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar:
< 1288696435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Control.Monad> unify (conj [atom "car", conj [atom "cons", hole "x", hole "y"]]) (conj [atom "car", conj [atom "cons", atom "head", atom "tail"]])
< 1288696435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just [("x",head),("y",tail)]
< 1288696462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: The first one there is (car (cons 'x 'y)).
< 1288696466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: The second is (car (cons head tail)).
< 1288696478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: And so, it matches the latter against the former and tells me to bind x=head, y=tail.
< 1288696485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: 'x means placeholder x, not quote x like in lisp.)
< 1288696500 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ah, that threw me off a moment.)
< 1288696534 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I have no useful response at this time.
< 1288696646 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it betray some latent sexism that I don't really care for female singers?
< 1288696670 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or violinists.
< 1288696692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singers no, violinists probably :P
< 1288696752 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying nothing of skill. I just mean I can't tolerate watching a woman play a violin because something about it irks me, regardless of how brilliant she may be.
< 1288696758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: anyway, here is my unify function
< 1288696761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify :: HoleyE -> SolidE -> Maybe [(String, SolidE)]
< 1288696761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify (H (Atom s)) (S (Atom t)) | s == t = Just []
< 1288696761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify (H (Conj xs)) (S (Conj ys)) = fmap concat . sequence $ zipWith unify xs ys
< 1288696761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify (Hole s) x = Just [(s,x)]
< 1288696761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify _ _ = Nothing
< 1288696766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK HOW TINY IT IS
< 1288696770 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might have something to do with the fact that I can't reconcile the bearing of a violinist with the proportions of a woman. They seem incompatible somehow.
< 1288696779 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is pretty.
< 1288696844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My evaluator is going to be pretty inefficient. But I don't care much.
< 1288696886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I *think* I'm going to end up with some form of dynamic scoping. Ha ha, what a life.
< 1288697005 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Somehow I can't resist dynamic scoping with explicit dynamic imports. It's easy to implement and has the same effect as lexical scoping in most cases. You only have to worry about closures. *shrug*
< 1288697024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ugh, just, no
< 1288697026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have lambda
< 1288697029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do lexical scoping
< 1288697029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no arguments
< 1288697031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy
< 1288697032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it
< 1288697037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refuse to give you a choice
< 1288697116 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But...but...dynamic scoping is more expressive! And more error-prone. :P
< 1288697127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even mccarthy acknowledged it was a mistake
< 1288697130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thats motherfucking mccarthy
< 1288697132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is never wrong
< 1288697134 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, if you actually decide it's a good idea to do a dynamic import up the call stack.
< 1288697134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up and lexicate
< 1288697137 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's your problem.
< 1288697141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1288697146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do realise the problems are far deeper than that?
< 1288697153 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah.
< 1288697159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance if x is bound in your scope
< 1288697161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have
< 1288697166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda () ... x ...)
< 1288697171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be passed to another function or returned
< 1288697171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1288697174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT X WILL BE
< 1288697190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if anyone else decided to name a variable x anywhere else in your call stack at the time, it's not what you want.
< 1288697253 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, judicious mixing of dynamic and lexical scoping is fine. I equate a lambda with a hygienic macro, in some ways.
< 1288697284 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should just import at the point of instantiation and the closure lasts as long as the lambda exists.
< 1288697292 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My language is degrading. I hope I make any sense.
< 1288697338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a bad person
< 1288697342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1288697404 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288697416 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, we've established that. I have strong opinions about language design, weakly held.
< 1288697445 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm contrary and rebellious and however you've got to get it done, have at.
< 1288697512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, there?
< 1288697519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Control.Monad> someExpr
< 1288697519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(car (cons head tail))
< 1288697519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Control.Monad> someRule
< 1288697519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((car (cons 'x 'y)),x)
< 1288697519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Control.Monad> rewrite someExpr [someRule]
< 1288697520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :head
< 1288697522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YES
< 1288697524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed
< 1288697529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you ever implemented an AVL tree or a Red-black tree?
< 1288697551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall ever doing so, but i've certainly read about implementing them
< 1288697555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1288697585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, which type of self balancing binary tree would be easiest to implement? Certainly not red-black.
< 1288697597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess AVL might be easiest, but perhaps there is some other one?
< 1288697615 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288697634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as for why: looking for what is easiest to memorise for an exam where something like this is likely to be required.
< 1288697692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chances of it requiring a specific variant is rather low... based on old exam papers for the same module
< 1288697705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do whatever okasaki did :)
< 1288697730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, name rings a bell, can't place it *googles*
< 1288697731 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, charlieissocoollike is so, like, cool. And cute. <3
< 1288697740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst name ever
< 1288697759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, purely functional data structures?
< 1288697766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1288697767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other google hits seem unlikely in the context
< 1288697769 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He did come up with it utterly arbitrarily by tacking on words instead of numbers to "charlie".
< 1288697783 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I need me a username."
< 1288697811 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"charlie. Damn. charlieiscool. Damn. charlieissocool. Damn. charlieissocoollike. Bingo!"
< 1288697850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite :: SolidE -> [(HoleyE, SolidE)] -> SolidE
< 1288697851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite x ys =
< 1288697851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case catMaybes $ map (\(l,r) -> fmap ((,) r) (unify l x)) ys of
< 1288697851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (x',bs):_ -> rewrite x' (map (\(s,b) -> (atom s, b)) bs ++ ys)
< 1288697851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] -> x
< 1288697852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, what about charlieis? wouldn't that logically be a required step after the original?
< 1288697858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my defence, i do feel remorse for writing that.
< 1288697902 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ask thee not! For verily I know not.
< 1288697914 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288697914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm unify?
< 1288697919 0 :Velmont!odinho@knuth.ping.uio.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288697926 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no lambdabot
< 1288697934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my own function.
< 1288697938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: hi oklopol-holder
< 1288697945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify :: HoleyE -> SolidE -> Maybe [(String, SolidE)]
< 1288697945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify (H (Atom s)) (S (Atom t)) | s == t = Just []
< 1288697945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify (H (Conj xs)) (S (Conj ys)) = fmap concat . sequence $ zipWith unify xs ys
< 1288697945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify (Hole s) x = Just [(s,x)]
< 1288697945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify _ _ = Nothing
< 1288697945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah that explains why it wasn't in Prelude either
< 1288697949 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1288697957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is actually pretty
< 1288697966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are the data types HoleyE and SolidE?
< 1288697987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data HoleyE = H (E HoleyE) | Hole String
< 1288697988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data SolidE = S (E SolidE)
< 1288698010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Hole being?
< 1288698026 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Why did I cycle? Ah, server problems. Yes.
< 1288698029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1288698029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a data constructor?
< 1288698036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, just woke up
< 1288698046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i haven't slept in ... many hours
< 1288698050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you'd do better to ask what E is
< 1288698056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I slept for um, 11 hours now
< 1288698057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data E e = Atom String | Conj [e]
< 1288698066 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I challenge you to stay up as long as meee.
< 1288698072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1288698077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: essentially I took
< 1288698082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data E = Atom String | Conj [E]
< 1288698085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and separated the recursion out
< 1288698089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data E e = Atom String | Conj [e]
< 1288698093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data SolidE = S (E SolidE)
< 1288698098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now SolidE is equivalent to
< 1288698104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E (E (E (E (E ...))))
< 1288698111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with a data constructor in-between to make haskell happy
< 1288698120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i used this to create
< 1288698121 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where meee = (lambda (x) (me (me (me (x))))).)
< 1288698122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data HoleyE = H (E HoleyE) | Hole String
< 1288698128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is E with another constructor added on
< 1288698130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1288698147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are you trying to achieve with this?
< 1288698154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically SolidE is an expression, and HoleyE is an expression with placeholders.
< 1288698158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it is a term rewriting language
< 1288698162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1288698170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unify and rewrite constitute the entire evaluation engine
< 1288698172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it makes some sense
< 1288698188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Control.Monad> someExpr
< 1288698188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(car (cons head tail))
< 1288698188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Control.Monad> someRule
< 1288698188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((car (cons 'x 'y)),x)
< 1288698188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Control.Monad> rewrite someExpr [someRule]
< 1288698189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :head
< 1288698197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someExpr is a SolidE
< 1288698201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someRule is a (HoleyE, SolidE)
< 1288698207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'x represents Hole x
< 1288698212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a b c) represents Conj [a,b,c]
< 1288698216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and foo represents Atom "foo"
< 1288698219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*'x represents Hole "x"
< 1288698222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just shows that you can't figure out most haskell code from the data type names and function names + the type signatures alone.
< 1288698274 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-9-137.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288698324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite :: SolidE -> [(HoleyE, SolidE)] -> SolidE
< 1288698324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite x ys =
< 1288698324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case mapMaybe (\(l,r) -> fmap ((,) r) (unify l x)) ys of
< 1288698324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (x',bs):_ -> rewrite x' (map (first atom) bs ++ ys)
< 1288698324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] -> x
< 1288698327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting better...
< 1288698330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes you can
< 1288698337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just insufficiently thoughtful :)
< 1288698339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or awake
< 1288698349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so i'm using firefox, feel free to laugh at me
< 1288698356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why should I?
< 1288698365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i hate firefox!
< 1288698376 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: When FP is intuitive, you are in a certain state of Zen that can only result from one of a few things, of which lack of is the easiest to come by.
< 1288698383 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sleep
< 1288698395 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288698402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as long as you don't use chatzilla you are unlikely to induce laughing
< 1288698418 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Highly appropriate that I omitted "sleep" from a sentence about lack thereof.)
< 1288698435 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm using Chatzilla because I am lazy.
< 1288698447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, you are not elliott however.
< 1288698470 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: elliott is known for his, ah, well, he's opinionated, eh?
< 1288698498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1288698506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'ALL DIPSHIT FUCKERS ARE WRONG
< 1288698523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, I guess you could say that. And I couldn't imagine him using chatzilla for any reason other than 1) because someone said he wouldn't 2) because he is not at his own computer and has no choice, but then he would probably use mibbit
< 1288698582 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am slowly remembering how hard caffeine can be on an empty stomach. I need to remember to eat more.
< 1288698582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he now uses chatzilla he of course just proves that (1) holds.
< 1288698584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of not-my computer has chatzilla?
< 1288698584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1288698594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm too sleep-deprived for that
< 1288698601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: porridge, i feel, is good in these situations; i have been eating it
< 1288698605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: do you guys even know what porridge it?
< 1288698609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is?
< 1288698618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who knows. Maybe some RL friend's computer?
< 1288698624 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but it's not so common.
< 1288698629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i do not comprehend the conjunction of these two terms :)
< 1288698632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: it's nice!
< 1288698635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288698702 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Over here people wouldn't generally know what you were talking about unless you said "oatmeal
< 1288698705 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1288698707 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typing fail.
< 1288698730 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*elliott: (the above, less fail).
< 1288698732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: oatmeal isn't really the same thing though is it
< 1288698735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean when people say oatmeal
< 1288698741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, every night at the same time I get a few UDP packets to the same ports over my ipv6 tunnel from the same ip. Targeted at a specific non-existent IP on my subnet.
< 1288698748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't mean rolled oats + milk + sugar do they?
< 1288698756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to mean a lovely sweet oaty sludge
< 1288698762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mean that but... not sweet and... weird
< 1288698771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the source ip is a he.net tunnel, I have a sixxs tunnel. So this makes no sense.
< 1288698775 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oatmeal is just rolled oat porridge.
< 1288698789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but how do you guys make it? well, when you do
< 1288698802 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :destination ports: a sweep from 33476 to 33480
< 1288698846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this night I'll put up tcpdump to actually dump the packets (all 40 bytes according to the ip6tables log) and figure out what they are
< 1288698853 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: People usually buy the instant variety, that is, packets of oats and usu. dried apple that they add boiling water to to reconstitute into what, if you're lucky, may not turn into a brick in your belly.
< 1288698874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: that sounds rather terrible
< 1288698875 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: People who know better buy plain old oats and work from there. :P
< 1288698878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: it's not hard to prepare manually :P
< 1288698903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step one, buy Quaker oats. Their faith in God makes the oats superior. (I can see no other explanation for their obvious superiority over Scots Porage Oats.)
< 1288698904 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Of course it sounds rather terrible. I was trying to make it sound terrible.
< 1288698911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, as you can see, Scots can't spell. Fuckers.)
< 1288698917 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Quaker wins.
< 1288698918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, milk.
< 1288698921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, microwave.
< 1288698924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, more milk!
< 1288698925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, sugar!
< 1288698928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, stir!
< 1288698929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eat!
< 1288698946 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have to have oats for breakfast, I think I'd prefer oat cakes and preserves.
< 1288698955 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And butter.
< 1288699028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking of porridge... how many variants do you have?
< 1288699042 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: @who?
< 1288699051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either of you
< 1288699057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both rather
< 1288699114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can use wheat instead of oats
< 1288699121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oatmeal hardly makes sense
< 1288699136 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, hard to say. It's all oats, here, and the only real variety comes in the instant brands. Some are better than others, for instance Quaker makes a few good ones such as Simple Harvest, which is a multi-grain one that will make your guts happier than anything on the face of the planet.
< 1288699146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: porridge here just means rolled oats.
< 1288699151 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's grits...
< 1288699151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepared in the way i describe.
< 1288699158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you can add shit to it if you can't handle simplicity.
< 1288699169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Porridge.jpg this is not porridge.
< 1288699173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, here it generally means wheat unless you specifically indicates something else
< 1288699189 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grits is a corn-based porridgey stuff.
< 1288699194 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly eaten in the South.
< 1288699207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porridge#Varieties <-- impressive list of different stuff you can use to make porridge!
< 1288699238 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It bothers me that people outside America don't seem to know the different regions, and especially the different accents. I mean, yeah, most people here couldn't tell you shit about the UK, but I'd like the situation to be improved on both sides.
< 1288699246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/scotts-oats.jpg THE ENEMY.
< 1288699252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rice is a quite common base too around here for it.
< 1288699261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.english-shop.de/images/Quaker%20-%20Quaker%20Oats.jpg THE GOOD GUYS.
< 1288699275 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's your accent like? I mean, where are you from?
< 1288699281 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You too.
< 1288699314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, Sweden
< 1288699315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: My accent is pretty generic British, I think. Which of rhotic/non-rhotic is typical for Britain? Because I'm that one.
< 1288699335 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rhotic = pronounces Rs rather than long vowels.
< 1288699346 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Britain...eh...well, you can't say.
< 1288699350 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :England is typically non-rhotic.
< 1288699354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :England, yes.
< 1288699393 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So you wouldn't really know?
< 1288699395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, you call porridge made of rice "rice pudding" according to wikipedia
< 1288699398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... is it?
< 1288699401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I don't know.
< 1288699406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, know accent?
< 1288699425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the regions?
< 1288699427 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, are you saying you wouldn't know what sort of English accent you have, other than perhaps a Swedish-sounding one?
< 1288699460 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Rice pudding is a cold, puddingy thing. How is that porridge?
< 1288699469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, indeed, I learnt UK English in school though. So Swedish sounding with some RP bits?
< 1288699477 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fair enough.
< 1288699478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, then wikipedia fails somewhere
< 1288699485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rice pudding, sweetened rice porridges usually made with milk and commonly flavored with butter and baking spices such as cinnamon. In Nordic countries, it is a traditional breakfast for Christmas Eve."
< 1288699498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interwiki is to the porridge thing
< 1288699508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that quote is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porridge#Varieties
< 1288699534 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, okay. Rice pudding commonly refers to Tapioca pudding.
< 1288699549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1288699551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles that
< 1288699554 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So it's just an issue of terminology.
< 1288699565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288699577 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, probably an Americanism.
< 1288699598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tree style tabs is so close to perfection, argh :)
< 1288699615 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a semi-typical educated American accent, but it's tinged a bit with New England, which has its own idiosyncracies
< 1288699626 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*idiosyncrasies
< 1288699640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear the American accents are optimised for irritatingness.
< 1288699643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway common porridge bases around here: oats, wheat, rice, (looks at interwiki...) something called "semolina" in English it seems...
< 1288699685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever since i heard lament's lounge version of O Fortuna
< 1288699687 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Major accents in the US include New England, Eastern, South, Deep South, Appalachian, Great Basin, Midwest, North, Pacific Northwest, and West...
< 1288699698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it hard to associate it with the orff version
< 1288699699 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and there are loads of subdivisions in all of those.
< 1288699703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also rye
< 1288699705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot rye
< 1288699713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because I think it is so awful
< 1288699717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o for-tu-na / velut lu-na
< 1288699740 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You might be thinking of the fact that the only American accents any Brit ever imitates are the Southern hick drawl and the California ditzy girl. :P
< 1288699753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: No, just Standard American.
< 1288699765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Seriously. American news programs can be really irritating. (Not talking about Fox.)
< 1288699773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's brash like America. :)
< 1288699776 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There is...not really such a thing, just like there's no "Standard English".
< 1288699789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know i know
< 1288699789 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I want to hear an example of an accent you find grating.
< 1288699792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i basically mean all of them
< 1288699800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :british accents are nice and that's it :P
< 1288699832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i found the link
< 1288699834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/qyxpp/ofortuna.mp3
< 1288699838 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egh...I think some American accents are nice, some British accents are nice, some AustralioNewZealandarea accents are nice. It depends on a lot of things, including the personality and voice involved.
< 1288699863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, AU accents aren't too bad. Though I guess in the long run they could be irritating as well
< 1288699875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to play this on loop FOREVER
< 1288699876 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is this that I'm hearing?
< 1288699885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: lament's lounge version of O Fortuna.
< 1288699891 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite chill.
< 1288699895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: You know it as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrML6s1wNHk
< 1288699927 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, yes I do. I sang it in choir.
< 1288699943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Well, congrats; from now on, you will associate it with a chill lounge version.
< 1288699979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i'm going to play this on loop FOREVER <-- how do you plan to deal with the heat death of the universe? Compared to "forever" that is quite soon...
< 1288699991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut UP O FORTUNA!
< 1288699992 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a deep bass with a large high range. Not falsetto, head voice. I am missing a few notes, though. But it's always fun to surprise people with my low baritone on first meeting them, since I don't weigh much.
< 1288700023 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People expect skinny guys to have high voices.
< 1288700028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Detestable life / now difficult / and then easy!
< 1288700030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO CATCHY
< 1288700034 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, people don't give a damn about singers with low voices. :(
< 1288700039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Admittedly I translated it^W^Wused Wikipedia's translation.)
< 1288700044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Have to do this:
< 1288700047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: CHOCOLATE RAIN
< 1288700056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: SOME STAY DRY AND OTHERS FEEL THE PAIN
< 1288700078 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I will record myself singing that song if you give me an example of a general American accent you find grating.
< 1288700104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually guess most american accents are fine
< 1288700105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just
< 1288700110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them are really terrible :)
< 1288700119 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, undoubtedly.
< 1288700139 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just love language stuff, so I'm interested in how we're viewed. Or, heard, rather.
< 1288700263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concepts of weeks make so little sense.
< 1288700281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes*
< 1288700317 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're quite right...segmenting time in a running period that doesn't line up with the rest of the calendar? What the heck?
< 1288700323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a start, the 52 weeks / year thingy? Not true for either normal or leap years.
< 1288700348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYmrg3owTRE
< 1288700356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeks are awesome
< 1288700361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calenders are for ... RACISTS!!!
< 1288700364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am incoheroehroehoehor
< 1288700367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*calendar
< 1288700379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7*52 is in fact 364 days
< 1288700392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she said.
< 1288700415 0 :cheater_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1288700421 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This is a disappointing video. All of the slang is from black pop-rap. :
< 1288700424 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|
< 1288700432 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so neutral my mouth fell off.
< 1288700450 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you just passed the point between "sleep deprived and quite jolly" and "sleep deprived and incomprehensible"
< 1288700467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can go back
< 1288700472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: All of the American slang, sure :P
< 1288700475 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly knew any of the supposed American slang, but had heard most of the supposed British.
< 1288700481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thanks
< 1288700494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but only after WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOowoOOOoooOOOOOoooOOooo
< 1288700496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok'y
< 1288700498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1288700520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe a bitmask would be a better representation of these states...
< 1288700527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mother's a bitmask.
< 1288700548 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Badonkadonk? That's a fantastic word." Hugh purrs.
< 1288700591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall a particularly memorable moment in House when Hugh Laurie got the chance to, while putting on an excellent American accent, put on a terrible British accent.
< 1288700595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was just glorious.
< 1288700602 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, that sounds familiar.
< 1288700633 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daniel Radcliffe appeared on Ellen and did a solid Northeastern American.
< 1288700818 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you think it's fair to say that Americans doing British accents usually end up sounding either way too posh or way too "Oi fink oi'm tehnin into a Ci'y Bri'ish"?
< 1288700833 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in'ew
< 1288700846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i think it's safe to say that i have seen few try, presumably because they're not idiotic enough to think they could pull it off
< 1288700889 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Makes sense. Oh, lemme look something up.
< 1288700975 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A friend of mine attempting (and not accomplishing) a "British accent": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DUqw3R8KnI
< 1288701014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 seconds in and i want to stab someone
< 1288701019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an achievement!
< 1288701035 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, she's a nice girl but she makes me cringe. :P
< 1288701061 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is an example of "too posh", I think, but also just awkward.
< 1288701074 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At one point she slips into something that sounds more like Edinburgh. :P
< 1288701289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://addons.mozilla.org/img/uploads/previews/full/11/11593.png?modified=0
< 1288701362 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is this dark magic?
< 1288701368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fox Splitter"
< 1288701370 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Split Browser?
< 1288701371 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1288701373 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same idea.
< 1288701394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: same extension
< 1288701395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just got renamed
< 1288701404 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there you go.
< 1288701854 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE CONVERSATION MUST NOT DIE
< 1288701882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRATERTRETERT
< 1288702200 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288702204 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it's about time I quit and started preparing for the day ahead.
< 1288702211 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh hai.
< 1288702219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Seriously?
< 1288702225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I thought you were going to stay up ridiculous times.
< 1288702232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait.
< 1288702233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misparsed.
< 1288702234 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I have class in an hour and change.
< 1288702255 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I meant like take a shower and brush my teeth and stuff.
< 1288702283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO QUIT IRC!
< 1288702284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523.
< 1288702300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1288702306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a seminar, but it hasn't started yet
< 1288702333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seminarl! wow that was terrible
< 1288702340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sleep-deprived; isn't that fun?
< 1288702343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is fun!
< 1288702353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're acting sleep-deprived, at least
< 1288702363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what caused it? did you stay up all night worrying about Vorpal's exam?
< 1288702373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION picks the most recent sleep-deprivation cause mentioned in this channel
< 1288702379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, extrapolation, it's science!
< 1288702386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, yes I did
< 1288702397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was so worried he might pass, thus furthering his education and potentially putting him in a future position of power.
< 1288702399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worried all night.
< 1288702421 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's true, every word. We changed the logs to protect the guilty.
< 1288702444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or, if you're concerned with things such as facts, it's because as of yesterday my sleep schedule was precisely upside down, and I have to be up at 9 am tomorrow.
< 1288702480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288702494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens to me quite a bit
< 1288702508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a regular timetable seems to help solve it, but I'm not sure if it's necessarily worth solving
< 1288702526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah school usually ... "helps"
< 1288702552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you have half-term last week?
< 1288702555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just going to start taking melatonin if I keep being as sleepcrastinaty as I have been.
< 1288702563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1288702583 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What for?
< 1288702587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ?
< 1288702590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Iceweasel, an extension or a plugin has been installed, upgraded or removed by the system.
< 1288702590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is strongly recommended to restart Iceweasel.
< 1288702590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to restart it now?]]
< 1288702605 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Half-term".
< 1288702624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It's a holiday half-way through the high school and lower "term".
< 1288702632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lasting a week.
< 1288702654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no school today?
< 1288702660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1288702668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1288702674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about tomorrow?
< 1288702680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes tomorrow
< 1288702693 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's time for me to quit and get ready for MY seven hours of class, thank you very much.
< 1288702708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I saw the word "semen" in that sentence.
< 1288702711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not even sure where.
< 1288702714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, 7 hours? can't be university then
< 1288702716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo, my reading abilities are declining.
< 1288702717 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"seven, time".
< 1288702726 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: University indeed.
< 1288702727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was probably seven, yeah.
< 1288702738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those pesky m-looking vs.
< 1288702746 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The talk was good tonight, anyway.
< 1288702750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, seminar time
< 1288702752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, huh, generally for me it is spread out all over the week so you have 2 hours there, and then an hour free and then two hours somewhere else
< 1288702761 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll keep the channel posted on that language.
< 1288702764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288702766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *day presumably
< 1288702779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ?
< 1288702787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what you said made little sense
< 1288702787 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have a weird schedule this quarter. 1 hour on Mondays and Wednesdays, then seven solid on Tuesdays and Thursdays. :P
< 1288702794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i see
< 1288702796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm
< 1288702812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :majorly inconvenient, not enough time to go home during between since it takes about 1.5 hours home by bus from university
< 1288702821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, ah
< 1288702837 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That sucks for you. At least I have the luxury of living on campus.
< 1288702855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, technically I had 6 hour labs, though almost always I finished before half the time.
< 1288702867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, cheaper to live with parents :P
< 1288702881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BUT I THOUGHT SWEDEN PAID FOR EVERYTHING
< 1288702883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, and by car it takes much less. Half an hour or so.
< 1288702912 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Parents are seven hours away. :P And the longest class I ever had that consistently lasted that long was the four-hour critique sessions for my life drawing class back when I was an art major.
< 1288702913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wait
< 1288702919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^ //
< 1288702921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, ah
< 1288702926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't i resize my columns in emacs
< 1288702928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to resize rows
< 1288702930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but columns no
< 1288702930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???
< 1288702941 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What do you mean by "resize columns"?
< 1288702943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, what do you study now?
< 1288702949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean resize the split columns
< 1288702975 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I moved from New Media Design and Imaging to New Media Interactive Development. They're both interactive media majors, but one's geared toward art and the other toward programming.
< 1288702985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, heh
< 1288702996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, CS for me
< 1288703005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, rather modern CS sadly
< 1288703040 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It should be obvious that I don't really need the programming study, but it's better for me to have a science degree than one in arts.
< 1288703048 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I originally went into the design major because, you know, I'm better at programming, so I wanted to round out my education.
< 1288703053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, mhm
< 1288703061 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did well, but it wasn't satisfying.
< 1288703062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: I moved from New Media Design and Imaging to New Media Interactive Development. They're both interactive media majors, but one's geared toward art and the other toward programming.
< 1288703066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those both sound like the most obnoxious things ever
< 1288703085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, that doesn't work because you wouldn't have papers to show future employers that you knew programming
< 1288703103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1288703112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not joking, they do.
< 1288703112 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not really. It's just the university's blanket term for game design, web design, and other interactive stuff.
< 1288703119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stand by my opinion :)
< 1288703124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even software engineering!
< 1288703137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh uh
< 1288703150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, saying that means he must loath whatever it is
< 1288703157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,//
< 1288703157 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Look, I can study high-level and esoteric theoretical computer science on my own time. In school I want to be forced to practice marketable skills so I don't let them atrophy.
< 1288703160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn dab complete
< 1288703167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab*
< 1288703189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't actually mind software engineering
< 1288703194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i just wish it wasn't taught as CS
< 1288703198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1288703240 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288703240 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And New Media majors have to take programming and software engineering in addition to mathematics and art and interface design and user experience design.
< 1288703257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, i shudder to think what a modern UI design course looks like.
< 1288703287 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not so bad, actually. The jury is in on what constitutes good graphic design for user interfaces. :P
< 1288703299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no comment
< 1288703311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so have you slept yet
< 1288703316 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: it's exactly the same as good graphic design in general.
< 1288703317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh or did you just sleep
< 1288703322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right you just slept for ages
< 1288703330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: if i talk i'll argue so just don't
< 1288703335 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baaah I really need to go, yeah.
< 1288703344 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll talk to you guys later.
< 1288703346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, I didn't even have time to type "see scrollback" before you answered yourself :P
< 1288703356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I would have done that
< 1288703377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: woof
< 1288703386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had got to "as I said before, I " when you answered yourself)
< 1288703390 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later, pup.
< 1288703392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotten*
< 1288703448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab
< 1288704762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how my type recursion is reflected everywhere
< 1288704762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: I moved from New Media Design and Imaging to New Media Interactive Development. They're both interactive media majors, but one's geared toward art and the other toward programming.
< 1288704763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1288704766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e :: (EC e) => Parser e -> Parser e
< 1288704767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e ee = atom <$> identifier
< 1288704767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <|> conj <$> many1 ee
< 1288704768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holey :: Parser HoleyE
< 1288704770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holey = e holey <|> (char '\'' >> hole <$> identifier)
< 1288704779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1288704780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solid :: Parser SolidE
< 1288704780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solid = e solid
< 1288706094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ballot Title
< 1288706094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statement of Subject: Initiative Measure No. 1069 concerns the state seal.
< 1288706095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concise Description: This measure would require the Washington State Seal to depict a tapeworm attached to a taxpayer’s intestine, encircled by the words: Committed to sucking the life blood out of each and every taxpayer.
< 1288706095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should this measure be enacted into law? Yes [ ] No [ ]
< 1288706095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ballot Measure Summary
< 1288706096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This measure would require the Seal of the State of Washington to be changed to depict a vignette of a tapeworm dressed in a three piece suit attached to the lower intestine of a taxpayer shown as the central figure. The seal would be required to be encircled with the following words: “Committed to sucking the life blood out of each and every tax payer.” The illustration would be selected from subm
< 1288706101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issions submitted by taxpayers.
< 1288706346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1288706408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wtf
< 1288707692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Firefox logo, the very reason why Iceweasel exists, is now free as in speech. Its use is still limited by trademarks, but it is free."
< 1288707693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as of this year
< 1288707699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/99d80bc3f18b
< 1288707762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hacking for Christ" -- a worse blog title, i cannot imagine.
< 1288707775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Yes, I'm a Christian, and I am one because I am convinced that two thousand years ago, God walked on the earth in order to reveal himself to us. The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, predicted in advance, show that he was not merely a 'good man' or even just a prophet. He brought a message of the need to turn away from our rebellion against God (what the Bible calls "sin"), and he made availabl
< 1288707775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e free, unconditional forgiveness for past and future sins to all who put their trust in him.]]
< 1288707778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, you're crazy.
< 1288708045 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288708088 0 :alcatraz!~damiano@host71-101-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288708130 0 :alcatraz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288708195 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288708348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1288708425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the trademark thing -- "you can't call it Firefox if you do changes we don't like" -- was the main reason they had to rebrand it to Iceweasel. Sure, the logo was non-free copyright-wise, so they dropped the logo and still called the browser Firefox, and then the Mozilla folks complained that you can't do that. (Admittedly I haven't really followed it that much.)
< 1288708442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1288708901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288708918 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288708933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Actually, the logo was the main reason.
< 1288708942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've been interesting-tarpitting!
< 1288709565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288709843 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288710469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, they've replaced gconf.
< 1288712808 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288712988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why haven't KDE and Xfce merged? Can they merge or does the source code not go good together? I know you can run them side by side, but I want Xfce and KDE to merge into one awesome DE (Desktop Environment)! If they could merge or if anyone knows a way to merge them then it would be better than e17 and/or Gnome, at least for me." --Ubuntu Forums
< 1288713205 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288713524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, Linux didn't use revision control until 2002.
< 1288713724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants everyone to stop torrenting him already
< 1288713731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1288713775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or downloading me
< 1288713778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://freshwap.net/284/dl/sgeo
< 1288713834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty clear that it will claim that there are links for anything you search for
< 1288713850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real mystery is how Google Alerts managed to find it as containing sgeo
< 1288716983 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288717154 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good afternoon
< 1288717318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288717643 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you there?
< 1288718246 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1288718448 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jackoz, you square?
< 1288718475 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ln :(
< 1288718549 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288718597 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288719405 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1288719405 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1288719405 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1288719405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1288719411 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288719411 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1288719411 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288719429 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288719643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1288719852 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288719962 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288720924 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288721009 0 :xtreme!~root@gw-pppoe.vespanet.com.br JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288721019 0 :xtreme!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1288721482 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it me, or did this channel suddenly become
< 1288721485 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME
< 1288721526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xcellent
< 1288721856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xtreme even IRCs as root
< 1288721860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz hes xtreme
< 1288721958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288722005 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I need an advice
< 1288722034 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you seem quite fond of functional programming :)
< 1288722140 0 :xtreme!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1288722152 0 :xtreme!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me
< 1288722198 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xtreme: Yes, we're all aware you're here, you have to actually say something with substance to get a meaningful response :P
< 1288722203 0 :xtreme!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it channel is wikipedia?
< 1288722225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION elliott ... O_O ... that was the wtfiest thing ever said on IRC.
< 1288722232 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY
< 1288722233 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err
< 1288722241 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xtreme: I have no idea what that means :P
< 1288722277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xtreme: Yes, it channel is Wikipedia.
< 1288722351 0 :xtreme!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1288722426 0 :xtreme!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you make here?
< 1288722448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xtreme: We make spells and knowledge.
< 1288722516 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is curious
< 1288722528 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean asking if *it* channel is Wikiedia
< 1288722552 0 :xtreme!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kkk
< 1288722562 0 :xtreme!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are you?
< 1288722565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xtreme: ah yes, we are racists too
< 1288722571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kkk are good friends of ours
< 1288722672 0 :xtreme!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288722685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;___;
< 1288722685 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you played that one too hard :(
< 1288722697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP #esoteric's xtremeness 2010 -- KKK
< 1288722720 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think he was looking for esoteric issues?
< 1288722730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he was confused, and I have no idea.
< 1288722821 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWHO
< 1288722823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving on :P
< 1288722858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Finnish grocery store chain ran by a company called Kesko; their stores used to be called "K-kauppa" ("K-store") way back when; then they clustered the stores by size so that the smallest ones have one K, "regular"-sized ones are "market"s with two K's (so "KK-market"), big ones are "supermarket"s with three ("KKK-supermarket") and huge ones are "citymarket"s with four ("KKKK-citymarket").
< 1288722881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason you don't much see signage with the full "KKK-supermarket" name nowadays, it's mostly just "K-supermarket".
< 1288722889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Krazy Ku Klux Klan
< 1288722915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a picture of one at http://failblog.org/2008/08/19/supermarket-fail/
< 1288723017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME <-- how so?
< 1288723024 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X
< 1288723025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice comments: "It's not fake, it's in Finland." Yeah, that's pretty much synonymous.
< 1288723030 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal fail
< 1288723046 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not convinced that Finland actually exists.
< 1288723062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, meme?
< 1288723078 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "xtreme" had just joined the channel X_X
< 1288723082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1288723083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1288723093 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, was there a netsplit or something when I quit?
< 1288723100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split)
< 1288723122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, yes.
< 1288723135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it was easier to copy-paste than to type four characters.)
< 1288723141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except that now I had to explain.)
< 1288723144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I'm still doing it.)
< 1288723165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: I'm not convinced that Finland actually exists.
< 1288723176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As we have discussed, there are three people in Finland, and five of them are in this channel.
< 1288723178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them drives the bus.
< 1288723186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, probably a leaf since I lost connection to the server
< 1288723187 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, well, I'm not convinced that YOU do! Or your MOM.
< 1288723212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or your FACE.
< 1288723367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a rather popular (well, in Finland) Twitter account called "sporakuski" ("tram driver", colloquially), where a tram driver tweets about all the stuff he does to annoy customers. ("How fast does the tram go when it's full of old ladies? As fast as it can! AHAHA!" and so on.)
< 1288723385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There's a picture of one at http://failblog.org/2008/08/19/supermarket-fail/ <-- the comments are sad, they fail to take into account the different language and so on
< 1288723441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it *is* the fail blog.
< 1288723487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1288723631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Don't you mean the bus driver?
< 1288723656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "830 followers" -- that counts as rather popular in Finland?
< 1288723668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's an achievement considering there's only two Finns who could friend him.
< 1288723674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friend, follow, whatever.
< 1288723691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, he seems to have stopped tweeting in February, so maybe people have unfollowed.
< 1288723725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That would be a strange reason to unfollow someone as it has no effect on you and you wouldn't be able to see if he started again.
< 1288723740 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a Klan Market pretty near my place -- been there several times -- assuming I managed to do a Google Street View link right: http://p.zem.fi/kkk-market
< 1288723786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Whoa, they know which way the walls of the building curve.
< 1288723787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scary.
< 1288723803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's from the laser range-finders, I think. It is scary indeed.
< 1288723872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't want Google to know that :(
< 1288723998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to attempt to watch the black hole episode of SG-1 again
< 1288724012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries not to have an aneurism
< 1288724019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *aneurysm
< 1288724029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a link here I think elliott would really like, but I'm afraid it would be a time-waster.
< 1288724033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never learn how to spell that word
< 1288724034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus it would be evil to paste it
< 1288724111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't mind.
< 1288724117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have time to kill until sleep.
< 1288724125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/chart?cht=tx&chl=x^2 <-- Apparently LaTeX rendering counts as a chart now. Who knew?
< 1288724157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know the evil overlord list of things to do/don't do? Well, tvtropes has a link-heavy version of it. Plus this additional list: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesAdditionalEvilOverlordVows
< 1288724182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ooh, that's SUBJECTIVE!
< 1288724186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should move it to a TroperTales page.
< 1288724191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1288724221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, the trope names are subjective, how do they deal with that?
< 1288724236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: with the power of idiocy
< 1288724278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1288724339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hypothesis: the size of a wiki and the stupidity of the editing rules are directly proportional.
< 1288724365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, C2 isn't exactly big, but it's not tiny either, and their policies are almost universally good
< 1288724368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at wikipedia
< 1288724373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, it *is* old-school.
< 1288724378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the oldest school.
< 1288724383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1288724406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wikipedia has loads of stupidity, tvtropes recently started getting some
< 1288724772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288725455 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288725570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now on the verge of physically strangling my computer.
< 1288725582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After Googling where a computer's trachea is, of course.
< 1288725815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, this is a first.
< 1288725826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have just seen someone argue that giving away software for free is *wrong*. As in morally.
< 1288725831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your own software. That you made.
< 1288725833 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288725914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh
< 1288725920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how did he/she justify it?
< 1288725935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the context of mobile apps, but still:
< 1288725939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's not beat around the bush. Free apps are evil. [...] When you make an app that you've sweated over and spent days crafting—so it's as good as it can be—you owe it to yourself to charge for that app. Otherwise what you're saying is your app is worthless; it's literally not worth even a small amount of someones hard earned cash. What, not even the cost of chocolate bar? Seriously can this be ri
< 1288725939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ght?"
< 1288725957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entire, mind-numbingly colossal idiocy: http://brendandawes.posterous.com/great-work-is-worth-paying-for-why-free-apps
< 1288725987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The post after that one on this moron's blog: "This looks fantastic. Nodebox meets Processing."
< 1288725993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My initial guess would've been some sort of "teach a man to fish" logic, about not giving other people ready-made stuff; I wouldn't have guessed *that*.
< 1288725994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, NodeBox and Processing.
< 1288725998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two open-source applications.
< 1288726003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distributed freely over the Internet.
< 1288726012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both worthless.
< 1288726013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and running on OS X, based, at the bottom of it all, on FreeBSD.
< 1288726019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open source...
< 1288726025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah
< 1288726025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distributed freely over the Internet...
< 1288726028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not even a chocolate bar.
< 1288726043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you expect idiocy to actually be consistent?
< 1288726057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell no.
< 1288726067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Amazing birthday present from Lisa: an F78 Henning Andreasen phone!"
< 1288726067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1288726070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She gave you that birthday present for nothing?
< 1288726076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess she didn't think it was worth anything.
< 1288726081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like you got punk'd, my friend.
< 1288726089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have to post this in the comments.
< 1288726096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am far too lazy for that.
< 1288726110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he'd make some ridiculous "well, it only applies to devices you can fit in your pocket" excuse.
< 1288726151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.brendandawes.com/project/mac-osx-hard-drive-icons/
< 1288726155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are offering these icons for free?
< 1288726160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, they are worthless, I presume?
< 1288726163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I want them?
< 1288726463 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how'd you come across it?
< 1288726513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: links from places that link to link that etc
< 1288726635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can download the source files for the presentation but note you'll need to grab the various libraries yourself - it won't run without them."
< 1288726637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For FREE?!
< 1288726706 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181141015.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288727261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh, someone just spammed #freenode with a message that included "/join #freenode"
< 1288727286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1288727290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and again
< 1288727301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he got klined
< 1288727312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, killed
< 1288727325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: aww
< 1288727327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste the spam here?
< 1288727339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it will probably show up again soon enough
< 1288727346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since it already did once after the first kill
< 1288727398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if it doesn't show up soon I'll paste it or something, though it really wasn't that interesting apart from the fact I mentioned
< 1288727424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if RPM has been unfairly maligned
< 1288727429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the standard criticisms again?
< 1288727462 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Red Had
< 1288727464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hat
< 1288727475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, my main criticism of it is the experience of RPM hell
< 1288727481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it is cpio-based iirc
< 1288727482 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has, admittedly, been making me money
< 1288727497 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as has Hasbro
< 1288727537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro ports uh
< 1288727541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, can't figure that one out
< 1288727562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Isn't RPM hell just... I mean, how is it different from the hypothetical "deb hell"?
< 1288727575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpio -- well, debs are freakin' ars
< 1288727586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, deb hell never happened.
< 1288727604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then what *is* RPM hell?
< 1288727615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would deb hell require generally installing individual debs instead of using apt?
< 1288727617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And was it RPM's fault, or just bad distribution managers? I have never seen a satisfactory explanation.
< 1288727631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_hell#Platform-specific
< 1288727651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# RPM hell - A form of dependency hell occurring in the Red Hat distribution of Linux and other distributions that use RPM as a package manager[3]."
< 1288727653 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it might have been a combination of red hat and rpm. This was back on red hat 5 or so
< 1288727655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not explain a thing.
< 1288727671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see the entire article for what dependency hell is
< 1288727684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what dependency hell is, Vorpal.
< 1288727686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not a moron.
< 1288727693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I do not see how it is specific to .rpm, rather than .deb and the like too.
< 1288727735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to reinstall Ubuntu from scratch.
< 1288727748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serves me right for listening to Vorpal.
< 1288727750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true, iirc old versions of RPM was prone to this due to not having very good ways to specify dependencies. This was so long ago I don't remember the details...
< 1288727755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what?
< 1288727782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stuff like not being able to say "needs a version between x and y of package z" but only "need package z" or "need package z version w"
< 1288727793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's an unfair slander, but this computer is being unbearable and I won't stand for it any longer.
< 1288727819 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: according to a quick google, RPM hell was really the problem of the central repos being sparse, and so you'd have to use other repos which would install conflicting versions of libraries sometimes
< 1288727830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, err okay. So I was not involved in whatever it was? Good.
< 1288727842 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, that too
< 1288727880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, well, you delayed me by 3 days, so you must bear some responsibility.
< 1288727882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, and the limited dependency specification support of old versions of rpm didn't help
< 1288727883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Right. So now everyone is afraid of rpm for no reason. :)
< 1288727886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, rebooting now.
< 1288727886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently the RPM structure is generally bad with dealing with awkward situations
< 1288727892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Seen the spam.
< 1288727897 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, indeed, though not as bad as it used to be
< 1288727899 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a half-complete upgrades
< 1288727904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right
< 1288727911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I wonder why they want people to use SASL so much.
< 1288727925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the spammers you mean? Who knows.
< 1288728028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a ##comment-on-spam channel
< 1288728038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes there is.
< 1288728041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1288728049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, well, you delayed me by 3 days, so you must bear some responsibility. <-- how
< 1288728140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288728151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I remember getting a version conflict on glibc on red hat
< 1288728574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Slackware libc5 → glibc update was... somewhat problematical, too. Slackware and package management, though...
< 1288729108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not quite hardcore enough for Slackware.
< 1288729144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tarball + dependency list + install/uninstall script + list of non-configuration files so uninstall works + simple package manager that just recurses if there's unsatisfied dependencies.
< 1288729150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the minimum I could live with.
< 1288729217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to find an acceptable form of identification so I can vote.
< 1288729230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My driver's license is missing, so can't do that.
< 1288729239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, signature...
< 1288729245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just needed to sign
< 1288729265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then again, registering to vote... I think it may be a bit late for that
< 1288729274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already did register.
< 1288729282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still need identification to vote.
< 1288729303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is going to write-in Sarah Palin. In every box. Yes, including *those* boxes.
< 1288729311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birth Certificate counts.
< 1288729329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't vote in each race
< 1288729337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the ones I had some inkling of a clue about
< 1288729363 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though I saw Tax Revolt Party in some races. After I voted, I kept wondering if I should have voted against them.
< 1288729389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fucking birth certificate counts.
< 1288729390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations -- the US has managed to convince you that voting is about voting against *them*, not voting for *them*.
< 1288729398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DEN I GUESS OBAMA CAN'T VOTE HUH?
< 1288729434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "The Tax Revolt Party benefits from New York's electoral fusion laws that permit a single candidate to receive endorsements from multiple parties. The Tax Revolt Party only endorses Republican Party candidates."
< 1288729445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5ce9ae75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288729514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I tell the Ubuntu installer to use a partition as an ext4 filesystem and mount it at a location, but don't tick the "format" box, does it just mount it and leave it alone?
< 1288729516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine voting for a Republican some day. If said Republican were to break with party on HCR, and supported LGBT rights
< 1288729546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1288729552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good.
< 1288729556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the Democrat were to do something incredibly offensive
< 1288729562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Note: If you lose your data, it's not my problem.
< 1288729572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... As does any other government documentation that has name and address on it.
< 1288729576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or idiotic [ not knowing amendments, say ]
< 1288729595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a shitty-ass requirement.
< 1288729595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'd vote for a Republican if they were entirely unlike a Republican and the Democrats were unpalatable!
< 1288729619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: goddamn it, I need a definite answer here.
< 1288729627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it won't wipe it.
< 1288729639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it *does*, by some weird turn of events, you cannot hold me responsible
< 1288729691 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't risk it.
< 1288729715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manually setting it up should be easy enough.
< 1288729724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Howcome one can't nick to "Q"?
< 1288729726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...
< 1288729730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It *will not wipe your drive*.
< 1288729739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You are confusing a "cover my ass clause" with an "unsureness clause".
< 1288729743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also:
< 1288729749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Before formatting ANY partitions, the installer TELLS YOU it's going to.
< 1288729758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, that's not why.
< 1288729759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you don't tick format, and it doesn't list it, it won't be formatted.
< 1288729770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...it is *designed to be able to do this*
< 1288729777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh
< 1288729798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Freenode cares that people not confuse a user Q from a services Q on another network
< 1288729845 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, call me paranoid. It's next to no extra work and a lot of worrying off my mind.
< 1288729864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not paranoid; crazy. The Ubuntu installer cannot wipe any partition without displaying it in the preceding step first.
< 1288729895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I'm not worried about accidental formatting, more overwriting during the installation process. Probably crazy as well.
< 1288729902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what?
< 1288729938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really can't be bothered getting into this over what is, ultimately, an utterly trivial matter.
< 1288730042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I am informed that I will become a hopeless deadbeat with no prospects in life unless I write an essay on a poem.
< 1288730083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay for the education system!
< 1288730124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288730132 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288730156 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288730439 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1288730497 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288731064 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1288731097 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288731161 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288731195 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288732633 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized: when allocating pages you may need to allocate pages for page tables
< 1288732703 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, seemingly very difficult things always turn out to be the easy parts, and vice versa
< 1288733005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm2glu3WLGk
< 1288733016 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this by the same Tool whose lyrics I'm supposed to hate?
< 1288733109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finished voting
< 1288733126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1288733172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tuesday voters were advised to pay special attention to the ballot itself, which included at least one error. It did not properly instruct voters to fill in the oval below the name of the candidate of their choice."
< 1288733174 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1288733208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looked like the oval I filled in was in the same box
< 1288733214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it wasn't below the name
< 1288733394 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolol
< 1288733414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this problem would be solved if they used voting machines right?
< 1288733445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This election, we switched from lever-based voting machines to filling in a paper ballot and scanning them in
< 1288733488 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanned paper ballots are sensible. Easy counting but also verifiable
< 1288733505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION agrees
< 1288733589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theonion.com/articles/election-day-guide,8124/
< 1288733679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1288734021 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288734480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Document is currently being inspected. Please allow 7-10 days. No action is required by you at this time." It's been in that state 13 days now! The liars.
< 1288735346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi
< 1288735351 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.200 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288735605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you've been rather quite all day...
< 1288735676 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1288735677 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite rather.
< 1288735680 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite, quite rather.
< 1288735683 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you said rather quite.
< 1288735684 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that too.
< 1288735692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*quiet
< 1288735695 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288736134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm2glu3WLGk
< 1288736134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is this by the same Tool [...]
< 1288736145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one Tool, but, uhh, that's a cover in case you can't tell :P
< 1288736155 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288736415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still wants there to be a single page on which he can see all his YouTube favorites (over 1000)
< 1288736433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that you have over a thousand YouTube favourites speaks very, very deep things.
< 1288736514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My polling place is in the elementary school I used to attend...
< 1288736771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Wait wait -- don't tell me -- it made you nostalgic.
< 1288736803 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He recorded a video of himself voting, put it on YouTube, and favorited it.
< 1288736817 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was over six hours long, so he broke it into 10 minute segments and favorited each of them.
< 1288737066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I am trying to imagine the circumstances where Sgeo takes six hours to vote :P
< 1288737081 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT DECISION
< 1288737098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING: You selected a non-Republican candidate. Please note that if you submit this vote, all existing copies of Active Worlds will be destroyed.
< 1288737110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me using my phone to ask various IRC channels who to vote for.
< 1288737121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Pretty sure you actually did that
< 1288737145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I not correct???
< 1288737154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you are not correct.
< 1288737162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Rule #1 of voting in the US: DO NOT VOTE FOR THE REPUBLICAN.
< 1288737182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule #2 of voting in the US: FAIRLY LIKELY, DON'T VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRAT EITHER.
< 1288737183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Rule #2: Accept that you are voting between "shitty" and "fucking nuts".
< 1288737217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Rule #3: Don't like it, engage in armed revolution. The politicians will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.
< 1288737292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION under-voted
< 1288737293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule #4: Turns out your vote means something like jack shit in New York under a fundamentally broken election system and two-party system! But don't throw away your vote by voting for who you'd actually like to see; THE REPUBLICAN MIGHT WIN
< 1288737302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the SKY WOULD FALL
< 1288737315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288737322 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288737323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we upset Sgeo
< 1288737325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1288737352 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is the combination key+touchpad movement that tells XChat "Oh, hey, go ahead, part this channel"?
< 1288737532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288737539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq never voted in the 2008 election!
< 1288737585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
< 1288737628 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288737770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq isn't denying it 'cuz it's true.
< 1288737839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The US system is so broken that you actually have no sane option but to vote defensively. It is fucking nuts.
< 1288737882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If I was in the US, I'd use reliable predicted results to determine what the risk of the Republicans getting in is; if it's sufficiently low, I'd vote honestly.
< 1288737948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is indeed defensive voting.
< 1288737969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've never heard of anyone do that; most idiots just vote Democrat no matter what because OMG REPUBLICANS.
< 1288737973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In my area the Democrats need every single vote they can get to avoid the anti-tax crazies.
< 1288737986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what, if everyone wasn't so chickenshit, the two party system could be broken.
< 1288738001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's worth a Republican candidate winning once or twice in the process.
< 1288738008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I had to vote against 4 *different* ballot measures that would essentially bankrupt the state.
< 1288738021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. That's different.
< 1288738028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:
< 1288738031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They said something about ballot measures on the back. I didn't see any
< 1288738032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq:
< 1288738054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it said it on the ballot, which makes sense, why vary the instructions?
< 1288738069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And the Republicans had a decent chance of winning. Including the guy who thinks that a bike sharing program is a UN plot to take over the US.
< 1288738073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what measures?
< 1288738081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course it is.
< 1288738092 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'd be able to determine that they could bankrupt the state
< 1288738188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Amendment R, which would remove property taxes for individuals or businesses who use government-owned property for a private benefit.
< 1288738199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Amendment 60, which would halve property taxes.
< 1288738215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'd vote on economic issues
< 1288738217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Amendment 61, which would forbit the state government from ever taking out loans.
< 1288738225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too clueless to make informed decisions
< 1288738231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." --Winston Churchill4
< 1288738254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Amendment 101, which would cut vehicle, income, and telecom taxes to an 8th of the size.
< 1288738254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4
< 1288738275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/4$//
< 1288738293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't this what not having direct democracy is for? Besides administrative purposes
< 1288738307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And a lot of things around here are very very underfunded because of morons who think that removing taxes just means they have more money in their pocket.
< 1288738329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyways. If you're too uninformed to vote on something, *inform yourself*.
< 1288738334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: All democracy relies on at least most of the people not being complete idiots.
< 1288738341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: We live in the fucking information age.
< 1288738349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: YOU CAN GET FUCKING INFORMATION.
< 1288738358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information about fucking.
< 1288738365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, yes.
< 1288738371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The Internet is for porn, after all.
< 1288739035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288739249 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poll: is interactive fiction esoteric?
< 1288739258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in and of itself
< 1288739260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping
< 1288739309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric interactive fiction!
< 1288739330 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuation: is inform 7 an esoteric programming language?
< 1288739350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A slow, horrible realisation creeps over you that the Befunge program is trying to take over the world.
< 1288739366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you: smash it with a hammer? Turn to page
< 1288739400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :45. Run away? Turn to page 74. Submit to your fungal overlord? Turn to page 89.
< 1288739449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that is not interactive fiction.
< 1288739455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it's strange, that's for sure
< 1288739461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awww.
< 1288739466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to write that.
< 1288739501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ais523 wrote an esoteric interactive fiction thing once but never finished i.
< 1288739502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it.
< 1288739505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally, based on esolangs
< 1288739525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I hereby hire you.
< 1288739537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I hereby hire you.
< 1288739554 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Gregor, you're hired too.
< 1288739566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fool! I am hiring pikhq for a reason!
< 1288739569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're hired as well.
< 1288739580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My standard rate is $5,000,000 an hour.
< 1288739580 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the pay?
< 1288739591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (or about £1 per week)
< 1288739611 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1288739616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How much would you say a week's worth of two people working on Kitten would be worth, to you?
< 1288739624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As part of the global value "how much Kitten is worth overall".
< 1288739631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convert utilons to the almighty dollar.
< 1288739634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... to pounds.
< 1288739649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If it's £1 per week or more, congratulations! You'll be paying yourself!
< 1288739659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If it's less, WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST KITTEN
< 1288739662 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Working all of 0.0004 seconds per week? That's a lot!
< 1288739671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: About several quintillion Zimbabwean Dollars.
< 1288739689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wow! You're making a five quadrillion times profit!
< 1288739694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're IN THE MONEY and I don't even have to pay you.
< 1288739698 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd say it's worth about a week's worth
< 1288739702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that great?
< 1288739739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, such dollars aren't even worth the paper they're printed on.
< 1288739749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the pay at Hoover Enterprises is £5 for every unit of influence gathered.
< 1288739757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd gain money by burning them and selling the ashes.
< 1288739769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Point is: You get to work on Kitten for free. How lucky are you?
< 1288739867 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't hired?
< 1288739927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, OK, you can be head of the aural warfare department.
< 1288739944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you take over the webernets.
< 1288739953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I need you to secure Finland.
< 1288739977 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's Kitten? some other crazy vaporware I missed?
< 1288740002 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks logs
< 1288740021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, elliott is developing it. Of course it's crazy vapourware.
< 1288740167 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but I can't criticize it if I don't know what it is :p
< 1288740222 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, one day it might be interesting
< 1288740275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, if he actually makes any of its crazy vapourware it'll be as awesome as sliced bread which has been sliced again.
< 1288740295 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG sandwich so delicious
< 1288740332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288740341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is grossly overestimating the vapourwareness of Kitten.
< 1288740368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Kitten is possibly the least ambitious of all my projects, existing solely because stuff sucks.
< 1288740404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: It's basically a Linux distribution, except probably a BSD kernel instead of Linux and without rubbish. I swear it's more interesting than that, but it's not actually meant to be hugely interesting.
< 1288740430 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally not Debian GNU/kFreeBSD though.
< 1288740448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you're meant to say "hurr you're making Debian", I'm... really not.
< 1288740455 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh... "Comcast has previously announced that they are running out of the RFC1918 space and that they are using real IPv4 addresses for internal network devices."
< 1288740464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They use kFreeBSD and I use kNetBSD! And in every other respect we are different! LOL DUPLICATION OF EFFORT"
< 1288740473 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no idea, I'm just pointing out that your description there doesn't distinguish you from Debian GNU/kFreeBSD :P
< 1288740476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's like saying Gentoo and Ubuntu are the same because they both use Linux :P
< 1288740483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, I also prefer a BSD userland.
< 1288740491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And generally... non-GNU userland.
< 1288740503 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you prefer a shitty outdated userland.
< 1288740504 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it.
< 1288740505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And I'll use the NetBSD libc, basic /sbin tools and the like.
< 1288740517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, let me get this straight: non-GNU userland = outdated by definition?
< 1288740521 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P
< 1288740533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then?
< 1288740540 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clear what userland you're using; NetBSD's.
< 1288740547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That is not clear at all, actually.
< 1288740558 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then I made an ASSUMPTION
< 1288740570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I *might*, but it's far from certain.
< 1288740597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And besides, I find it really hard to conceive of a *coreutils* being outdated.
< 1288740603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Oooooh fuck.
< 1288740604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing as they haven't changed since, y'know, 1980.
< 1288740628 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp -a and date --iso come to mind immediately.
< 1288740636 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I constantly run into unsupported stuff on Mac OS X.
< 1288740672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: At the same time, tons of people use the BSD userland and have no issue with it. It *does* come down a lot to personal preference, you know.
< 1288740708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FreeBSD cp has -a, anyway.
< 1288740719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could easily transplant its /bin in.
< 1288740722 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then whereTF did Mac OS X get its cp from X-D
< 1288740728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Old FreeBSD
< 1288740732 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outstanding :P
< 1288740736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NetBSD doesn't have cp -a)
< 1288740747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You do realise OS X basically became a fork in 2000? :P
< 1288740758 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but they could, y'know, MERGE.
< 1288740781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That would be painful and expensive :P
< 1288740799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They even have a forked GCC.
< 1288740799 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially for an OS that doesn't care about developers or console users at all *shrugs*
< 1288740809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One which is falling waaaaaay out of date.
< 1288740855 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they are going clang+llvm anyway for GPL-FUD reasons (or whatever), so why update their gcc fork
< 1288740870 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288740874 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1288740892 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.200 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288740919 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1288741195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah they've abandoned gcc.
< 1288741200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also stock gcc works, so.
< 1288741399 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you use clang/llvm in kitten?
< 1288741531 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ elliott
< 1288741542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc is more likely.
< 1288741569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And polls have begun to close. Let election night begin!
< 1288741681 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pcc seems 1/2 dead
< 1288741694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: http://pcc.ludd.ltu.se/
< 1288741725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: It's quite alive.
< 1288741744 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about starting on a kernel in that language I've been building a compiler for
< 1288741752 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Charlie, they care about you!
< 1288741755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what kinda language?
< 1288741755 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that I have the booting stuff done :)
< 1288741757 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, slowly dying then.
< 1288741762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: by what evidence?
< 1288741865 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lack of google news search results
< 1288741954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ...are you serious?
< 1288741963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: That's a retarded criterion. Absolutely positively retarded.
< 1288741972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's gotta be joking
< 1288741974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fairly sure he's joking.
< 1288741976 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with both of you
< 1288742054 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, look at ohloh: http://www.ohloh.net/p/pcc "Decreasing year-over-year development activity"
< 1288742112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD is dying; Netcraft confirms it.
< 1288742140 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's only ~1 person who committed recently
< 1288742311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: you do realise ohloh's metrics suck very often?
< 1288742316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: how about looking at the *actual CVS*?
< 1288742323 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I did.
< 1288742350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Furthermore: You do realise that it has been continuously maintained as a single codebase since the 70s?
< 1288742355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And many, many compilers are based on it?
< 1288742361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point, software just begins to mature.
< 1288742411 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unix* software begins to mature. everything else just keeps on growing
< 1288742432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And PCC's one of the most UNIX programs out there.
< 1288742436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ...pcc is a unix program
< 1288742445 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... :p
< 1288742454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was written for AT&T UNIX!
< 1288742455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: It was developed at Bell Labs on Unix in the 70s, the heyday of Unix.
< 1288742462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shipped with the original BSD.
< 1288742469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only got replaced with gcc in BSD in 1994.
< 1288742481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was unmaintained for a while but now it's been picked up again and ported to modern systems, and it's quite C99 compliant too.
< 1288742496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also packaged in NetBSD core (not pkgsrc) and OpenBSD.
< 1288742500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it can built OpenBSD's kernel.
< 1288742530 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it tastes like butterflies.
< 1288742580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, you pretty much support Debian in everything they do right?
< 1288742598 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much. Not always. X-P
< 1288742607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So I take it you use GNOME :)
< 1288742615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XFCE
< 1288742623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BUT THAT'S NOT EVEN SUPPORTED IN THE INSTALLER
< 1288742628 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, for a distro like Debian, having a default is almost meaningless :P
< 1288742646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't say I blame Gregor. They are probably the least terrible binary distro out there for general use.
< 1288742664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is they?
< 1288742717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian.
< 1288742803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NO KITTEN
< 1288742807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There is no kitten :( )
< 1288742895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only Zuul.
< 1288742921 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, Indiana senate went red. Wooooh.
< 1288742975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HA HA
< 1288742980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's hoping that doesn't become a trend.
< 1288742993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't need another economic crash.
< 1288743040 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Indiana barely went blue last time.
< 1288743065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TEXAS WENT BLUE
< 1288743072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: This will never, ever happen)
< 1288743084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would the fancy map colourers do if a third party won?
< 1288743095 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kentucky stayed red (SHOCK!)
< 1288743098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And California went.... ... um ... Orange!"
< 1288743106 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Usu. yellow or green.
< 1288743120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Usually? Does it happen often? :P
< 1288743143 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There are two "independent" senators and a few independent or third-party representatives.
< 1288743189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What if EVERY STATE TURNED A DIFFERENT INDEPENDENT COLOUR
< 1288743201 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Independent" != "third-party"
< 1288743205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then maybe we'd develop a parliament.
< 1288743209 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1288743222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nth-party
< 1288743232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I mean
< 1288743253 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Independent isn't a party. Independent is not-registered-as-any-party.
< 1288743261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Third parties never win in the senate :P
< 1288743281 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Independents are just democrats or republicans minus the title :P
< 1288743425 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH BOY, according to the Guardian, Kentucky went republican->tea party!
< 1288743431 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW WE'RE REALLY MAKING PROGRESS
< 1288743483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: With 4% of the vote counted.
< 1288743495 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeahyeahyeah :P
< 1288743555 0 :Quadlex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of esoteric things, what's the most esoteric channel you're on, on 'Node?
< 1288743564 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll vote in the primaries next time
< 1288743572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to support someone who has a chance of winning
< 1288743589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* F U Howard Kudler *cough*
< 1288743611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 4% of the vote counted and the Democrat has a 10% lead.
< 1288743629 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm trusting Guardian :P
< 1288743646 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr. Kudler couldn't find an editor, could he?
< 1288743659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If your Congressman fails to keep the economy strong, sides with the big banks, and foreign energy companies, and fails vote for programs to bring businesses, jobs and employment to Nassau and Suffolk Counties. The FIRE him! "
< 1288743667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Speaking of esoteric things, what's the most esoteric channel you're on, on 'Node?
< 1288743671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm... #esoteric
< 1288743684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Does our current Congressman vote for the interests of People of Long Island, Or are his actions guided by his party and his own personal interest in America "
< 1288743687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And vote for the guy who will do all that ONLY MORE.
< 1288743695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Trusting the Guardian's first story -- EXCELLENT IDEA
< 1288743695 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna go with ##0x50000000
< 1288743705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, right now I'm more raging at the .. lack of a copyeditor
< 1288743706 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the most esoteric channel I'm on.
< 1288743735 0 :Quadlex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? In terms of 'Node's 'purpose', mine is either #cooking or #gaygeeks
< 1288743764 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of those should be ## channels :P
< 1288743766 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've mentioned this language before, I could summarize it as an imperative language with modules and a type system that is not as raped as C's
< 1288743776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oh, that M++ thing
< 1288743779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No?
< 1288743788 0 :Quadlex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They are
< 1288743790 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the successor of that thing
< 1288743795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1288743807 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288743855 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadlex: Neither appear to be.
< 1288743916 0 :Quadlex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've got redirects
< 1288744040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Both of those should be ## channels :P
< 1288744041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So should #esoteric
< 1288744052 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288744076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, this is the official channel for the esoteric programming language Esoteric
< 1288744077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not so. This is the official channel of the esolangs.org wiki.
< 1288744078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :P
< 1288744089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which doesn't own esoteric :P
< 1288744102 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what is Zuul? I heard it in a song and never found it.
< 1288744106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: KAJ ĈU VI HAVAS PUNKTON?
< 1288744116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ... You must watch Ghostbusters. Nao.
< 1288744118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Ghostbuster
< 1288744118 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one of these days I might write something about the new thing...
< 1288744119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1288744126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Thing some thing about thing thing.
< 1288744196 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new thing is called m3: m stands for module, I think, and 3 because I believe it's the third attempt at making something of this vague idea
< 1288744210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Modula-3 hates your guts :P
< 1288744228 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I suspect it's taken a hundred times over already
< 1288744228 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288744263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Modula-3 is hardly some random name-taker :)
< 1288744273 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't use jonguilexiphonaugh for this project either, that name should have an esolang
< 1288744328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Gregor knows something insane about me
< 1288744339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, that I haven't said here, I mean
< 1288744349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. I was about to say...
< 1288744461 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Official tech support channel for Esoteric | Homepage: http://esoteric.sourceforge.net/ | Spec: http://esoteric.sourceforge.net/esoteric_spec.pdf | Repository (Mercurial): http://bitbucket.org/esoteric/stable | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1288744503 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-219-194.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288744525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor, Hermetic Brotherhood of Light, Rosicrucianism, magick, gnosticism etc. | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1288744554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never before has a topic been such a pack of lies :P
< 1288744592 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem too far off to me
< 1288744593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So, Gregor knows something insane about me
< 1288744593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Um, that I haven't said here, I mean
< 1288744595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS IT GREGOR TELL US
< 1288744618 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is a serial rapist.
< 1288744631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^not it and not true
< 1288744634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knew it.
< 1288744638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't lie.
< 1288744652 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: this being the support channel for serial rapists, isn't everyone?
< 1288744656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Sgeo thinks that people will think the idea of him being a serial rapist is plausible enough that he has to deny it :)
< 1288744734 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I misspoke.
< 1288744736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a CEREAL rapist.
< 1288744737 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine time to pop in
< 1288744785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: It's okay, we're just talking about rape.
< 1288744860 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1288744871 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never participated in usch activities
< 1288744874 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such*
< 1288744905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never participated in talking?
< 1288744907 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about time you start talking then :)
< 1288744921 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I was better at multitasking, so I could simultaneously code, listen to your banal talk, and do my homework too
< 1288744938 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my screen is too small, or something
< 1288744990 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cloning is far away
< 1288745087 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideas?
< 1288745208 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skip homework :) if you stick to just coding and "listen"ing to our banal talk should be within your capacity, shouldn't it?
< 1288745308 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1288745329 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.200 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288745357 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1288745418 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems that the more tired I am, the harder it is for me to go to bed in time
< 1288745468 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess self-control deteriorates more quickly than I grow physically tired or something like that
< 1288745491 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternately I could skip your banal talk and do the homework and code
< 1288745507 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: probably your sleep schedule doesn't match what your body thinks it should be
< 1288745520 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it doesn't
< 1288745557 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? eliminate all those activities with strict times
< 1288745650 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I want to get to work before lunch so that I can have lunch
< 1288745680 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? on weekends I never get up before ~1 pm
< 1288745728 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today is not a weekend, nor is tomorrow
< 1288745765 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... sleep is more productive than working
< 1288745918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight; bye.
< 1288745919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1288745927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rand Paul won
< 1288745930 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye - have fun with distro
< 1288746006 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: any relation (at all) to Ayn Rand?
< 1288746155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288746159 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288746179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, I think Rand is libertarian, so philisophically, I think
< 1288746208 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :-)
< 1288747008 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288747552 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1288750527 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1288750720 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far this map is lookin' awfully red.
< 1288750847 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Election Alert: Fox News Projects GOP Wins Control of House :P
< 1288751036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my vote for that K guy wasn't too helpful
< 1288751045 0 :MALDEK!~MALDEK@d090087.adsl.hansenet.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288751086 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1288751119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MALDEK, who are you? Are you a regular here?
< 1288751187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The GOP is projected by most everyone to be red.
< 1288751201 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...................
< 1288751202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But it looks like the Dems will have a narrow majority in the Senate.
< 1288751212 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: The GOP is projected by most everyone to be red.
< 1288751214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ... HOUSE. NOT GOP,
< 1288751223 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Reread that like a billion times :P
< 1288751238 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo....non reg
< 1288751246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But anyways. Deadlock!
< 1288751276 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :House is useless and the senate has deadlocked enough as-is X-P
< 1288751317 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo....btw...who are you?
< 1288751320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MALDEK, to give you the quick rundown: This is obstentially about computer science topics, not magic topics
< 1288751329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am Sgeo.
< 1288751345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're likely to get rid of the filibuster in the Senate rules.
< 1288751380 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo...yes....thanx for the hint....let me see what happens...lol
< 1288751380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constantly humbled by the sheer intellect displayed in this channel.
< 1288751399 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what happens...?
< 1288751441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That'd be nice, but we'll see :P
< 1288751455 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo...yes....i regard the screen at the moment as a nice random generator....i like th eglance at those systems while relaxing
< 1288751496 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, politics, the first of three levels of "higher" flamewars.
< 1288751509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Revising the rules of order at the beginning of a session requires a simple majority.
< 1288751520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me that MALDEK is real. No one else is responding to em.
< 1288751532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not hallucinating you, am I MALDEK?
< 1288751536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The M-DALEK is real.
< 1288751570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Erm, not session. Term.
< 1288751578 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bloody nonsense :P
< 1288751582 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo...what is the qualification of a valid answer?
< 1288751631 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be a case of split personlity?
< 1288751649 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your alter ego is logged in the terminal
< 1288751655 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1288751735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points at MALDEK and shouts at pikhq and Gregor. "Can't you see em?!"
< 1288751755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 無
< 1288751761 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo....?
< 1288751779 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Who?
< 1288751787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat's notification thing displayed the character correctly, XChat did not
< 1288751828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e'kusutiȳa'to warui nã.
< 1288751917 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288751939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1288752175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. The governor race here is a race between the Democrats and the American Constitution party.
< 1288752318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American Constitution party?
< 1288752336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um
< 1288752345 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a Constitution party, it seems rather Christian
< 1288752373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Republicans in that race are just hoping to not be a write-in next time.
< 1288752492 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Constitution is a joke.
< 1288752505 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1288752507 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1288752511 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just stick with that, actually.
< 1288752520 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Read: Constitution PARTY :P )
< 1288752610 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288752691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They literally have no concept of the meaning of religious freedom
< 1288752735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, here's an esoproblem: an online game (Kingdom of Loathing) added a macro language, but it had a crazy bug, and I'm trying to figure out what was going on
< 1288752809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sub f while !times 2 use spices endwhile endsub while !times 4 call f endwhile", "while !times 2 while !times 2 use spices endwhile endwhile", "while !times 2 while !times 4 use spices endwhile endwhile", "while !times 4 while !times 2 use spices endwhile endwhile" use spices 4, 3, 19, 5 times respectively
< 1288752818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone needs to figure out the semantics of this and make it an esoprogram
< 1288752823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*esolang
< 1288752850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, they fixed the bug, so no further experimentation is possible
< 1288753332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you able to talk to anyone else who experienced it?
< 1288753379 0 :Grizly!~Grizly@host109-153-15-178.range109-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288753407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Grizly
< 1288753467 0 :Grizly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey
< 1288753812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, that's all the info I have to go on
< 1288753826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm really interested in what the semantics of the bug were
< 1288753832 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you ask the devs?
< 1288753855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not this long after the event, this was back in April
< 1288753868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it's a fun programming problem to think of a plausible bug that would make /that/ happen
< 1288753971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, aww
< 1288753985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask them to generate more examples!
< 1288753993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely they use version control
< 1288754060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's an MMO
< 1288754065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't roll back to a previous version...
< 1288754072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in theory you could, but everyone would go mad
< 1288754086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How well compartmentalized is the code?
< 1288754152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's an MMO, the source code to the interp for that isn't public
< 1288754173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you don't know if there's a chance
< 1288754197 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288754374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's pretty likely that the interp for the above language was deterministic, though
< 1288754443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is a sequence that begins 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
< 1288754447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the next number is 42
< 1288754460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess we could guess what sort of bugs are likely
< 1288754525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the second and fourth examples show a sort of pattern
< 1288754727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm watching three maps: Guardian, CBS and FOX.
< 1288754734 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To cover the whole spectrum :P )
< 1288754741 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOX's is currently the bluest (huh?)
< 1288754771 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called Colorado and Pennsylvania for the Democrats, which the others haven't.
< 1288755219 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1288756258 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288756282 0 :Grizly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1288756594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I strongly hope Colorado is blue.
< 1288756605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Ken Buck is *positively crazy*.
< 1288756619 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If FOX has already called it for the dems, I'm thinkin' it goes blue :P
< 1288756632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very close race.
< 1288756647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaah* I see what's happening.
< 1288756652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Republican vote is split.
< 1288756690 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, none of my sites make it look all that close :P
< 1288756932 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, now maybe both parties will be on board with changing how voting works
< 1288756962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since here the suckiness hurts the Republican-like parties, and in the past, it hurt Democrat-like parties
< 1288756966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think)
< 1288756988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tune in next election cycle for more "Wishful Thinking" with Sgeo Comet.
< 1288757107 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Third parties have always hurt both parties, but nobody's willing to change to a system that would potentially allow any other party to win.
< 1288757132 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now we have two centrist parties, both of which are mind-bogglingly terrible in their own ways :P
< 1288757155 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had something like runoff voting (and people understood it), there would be a potential for other parties to win.
< 1288757169 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we'd have actual political heterogeneity.
< 1288757174 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd break EVERYTHING.
< 1288757294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But those other parties would be at least sometimes allied with the main parties
< 1288757311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, vote splitting wouldn't affect primarily one party
< 1288757368 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, if the Tea Party sticks around, the Republicans will see it as advantageous to have a separate Tea Party coexisting with them
< 1288757377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Avoid O'Donnell situations in the future
< 1288757403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because then O'Donnel could run concurrently with the hypothetical sane GOP candidate
< 1288757425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grah, I'm actually rooting for Republicans to push for something that would have helped Republicans?
< 1288758538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh fuck. So, the House can do subpoenas. Meaning that the Republicans willl enact a witchhunt.
< 1288758559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, that will really hurt elections in 2 years.
< 1288758580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Republicans were nuts, just like they claimed to be. Don't vote for the fuckers again."
< 1288758584 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subpoenas of who for what?
< 1288758602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Entire Obama administration, to be annoying.
< 1288758775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Remember, these are the bastards who impeached Clinton for failure to keep it in his pants.
< 1288758811 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288758919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't it supposedly about lying about keeping it in his pans?
< 1288758921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pants
< 1288758939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, whether he kept it in his pants or not should never have come up for discussion in the first place
< 1288762529 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.rh.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288762664 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all.
< 1288762768 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently in an era when sit-com married couples slept in separate beds, Rocky and Bullwinkle slept together.
< 1288763260 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Further evidence that furries have been around forever.
< 1288763277 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get it? "Fur"ther?
< 1288763284 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furever.
< 1288763286 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1288763290 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derp.
< 1288763354 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this show also has Dudley Do-Right, with Nell in love with Dudley's horse :P
< 1288763359 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess I can't say much :P
< 1288763502 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Exactly. They're everywhere.
< 1288763511 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it's necessarily so bad. I mean, the vast majority of furries are just people who like to draw or write.
< 1288763538 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we probably wouldn't have any of the classic animated films that we do today if it weren't for anthropomorphic animal characters.
< 1288763633 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1288763977 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288764047 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288764360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS THE PRO-RAPE CANDIDATE WINNING.
< 1288764362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY GOD WHY.
< 1288764535 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..........???
< 1288764567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ken Buck.
< 1288765097 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288765804 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Never trust anyone whose name matches /en B.ck/.
< 1288765830 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse me, /en+ B.ck/.
< 1288766260 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288766518 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288766960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the US needs conquering.
< 1288766978 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By who? Everybody's just as fucked-up, we're just louder about it :P
< 1288766979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does Norway feel about conquest?
< 1288767227 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Let me know in advance so I can mosey on over to Canada before it hits the fan.
< 1288767274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Perhaps Canada should conquer. Though they'd be too polite about it.
< 1288767284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Could we please take over, eh?"
< 1288767292 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not the Québécois.
< 1288767302 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd be just as impolite as they pleased.
< 1288767326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but they're trying hard to be a seperate country.
< 1288767399 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oy, if Canada took over, everything would end up written in English, French and Spanish.
< 1288767403 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Every once in a while it gets farther than it ought to, and Canada says "you can be a country when you take your share of the national debt".
< 1288767438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Isn't it already?
< 1288767458 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. No it isn't :P
< 1288767467 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here in AMERICA we speak AMERICAN (English) X-P
< 1288767492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fairly common to add French so they can distribute to Canada easily, and Spanish for the sake of Hispanics...
< 1288767696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like no marijuana for California!
< 1288767696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA!
< 1288767846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dealers will be very happy about that.
< 1288768131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION appeals to the horribly-obvious slippery-slope argument:
< 1288768137 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dealers of cocaine, on the other hand, won't be.
< 1288769983 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This came up last night: what's your accent like?
< 1288769996 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You too, if you weren't around.
< 1288770004 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly don't remember right now. :P
< 1288771199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1288774360 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1288775081 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1288776668 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Laaame.
< 1288777089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Oklahoma_"Sharia_Law_Amendment",_State_Question_755_(2010)
< 1288777092 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE HELL
< 1288782561 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-11-99.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288783135 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1288785997 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good afternoon
< 1288787196 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Q: What do you call 15 blondes in a circle? A: A dope ring. Q: Why do blondes put their hair in ponytails? A: To cover up the valve stem.
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< 1288787344 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
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< 1288788106 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1288788291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
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< 1288788487 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288788607 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288788667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netsplit?
< 1288789627 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288793719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
< 1288793722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to say.
< 1288793736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1288793749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly just a single-server glitch that didn't actually cause it to splat.
< 1288793759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM split?
< 1288793775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think splat's funnier.
< 1288793840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grumble grumble Rademacher complexity.
< 1288793892 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, rademacher?
< 1288793941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what it is or how it works, but I'm supposed to present this machine learning paper in tomorrow's seminar course thing, and they waste half of their pages in a theoretical analysis of the Rademacher complexity of their method, so it must be something important.
< 1288794023 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some sort of "here's a class of functions, how complicated they are" measure; they're using it to show that the class of functions their optimization thingie can find is less complex than some alternatives, so their thing should generalize better.
< 1288794054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh, interesting
< 1288794208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition goes \hat{R}_\ell(\mathcal{F}} = \mathbb{E}_\sigma \left[ \sup_{f \in \mathcal{F}} \left| \frac{2}{\ell} \sum_{i=1}^\ell \sigma_i f(\vec{x}_i) \right| \middle| \vec{x}_1, \dots, \vec{x}_\ell \right]
< 1288794221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would probably be more readable with a TeX-supporting IRC client.
< 1288794247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also at least one typo: the } after \mathcal{F} should be a ).
< 1288794292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that thing actually works.
< 1288794298 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=tx&chl=\hat{R}_\ell%28\mathcal{F}%29%20=%20\mathbb{E}_\sigma%20\left[%20\sup_{f%20\in%20\mathcal{F}}%20\left|%20\frac{2}{\ell}%20\sum_{i=1}^\ell%20\sigma_i%20f%28\vec{x}_i%29%20\right|%20\middle|%20\vec{x}_1,%20\dots,%20\vec{x}_\ell%20\right]
< 1288794307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a pretty link, but it does what it should.
< 1288794342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've probably stripped out the spaces, though.
< 1288794419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=tx&chl=\hat{R}_\ell%28\mathcal{F}%29=\mathbb{E}_\sigma\left[\sup_{f\in\mathcal{F}}\left|\frac{2}{\ell}\sum_{i=1}^\ell\sigma_if%28\vec{x}_i%29\right|\middle|\vec{x}_1,\dots,\vec{x}_\ell\right]
< 1288794425 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288794433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that shorter. Well, that's what URL-shorteners are for.
< 1288794491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and instead of \vec{} it should optimally be something that does \mathbb{} instead of the silly over-arrow. Oh well.
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< 1288797161 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1288798439 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-219-194.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288798941 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.14 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288798942 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288799356 0 :ais523!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288799402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1288799412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1288799443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I hate it when people do that to the topic
< 1288799453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, we actually officially changed mission.
< 1288799467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing voodoo right now!
< 1288799469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems a little implausible
< 1288799475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I expect it'd cause most of the channel to /part when they found out
< 1288799482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you feel the voodoo doll stabs, ais523???
< 1288799490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I was ready :(
< 1288799497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I am lying through my teeth)
< 1288799505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually not through my teeth at all, I'm just lying.
< 1288799517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Not the logs unless they are: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1288799548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I need to wind down a bit
< 1288799558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just helped someone with C++ stuff
< 1288799562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had around 5 hours sleep this morning, and this afternoon by mitsake
< 1288799563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mistake
< 1288799568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You should listen to me talk about my efforts to create a simple term rewriting tarpit!
< 1288799572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Possibly not actually interesting)
< 1288799578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Self-interpreting, specifically.
< 1288799587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed to hit him in the head with "Don't assume the contents of the data file. The program should only know the structure"
< 1288799592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's in the programming track
< 1288799593 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I weep
< 1288799598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't worry, do the typical thing where the author of the lang monologues and other people maybe read them later
< 1288799609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm overreacting
< 1288799612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's bad enough just seeing the other /teachers/ on my C course
< 1288799618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I already did that (well, with the implementation) and nobody's polite enough to pretend to be interested :)
< 1288799620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let alone some of the students
< 1288799633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I might logread it, then
< 1288799652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, I've been really lax with the logreading over the past couple of years
< 1288799657 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of liked xkcd
< 1288799658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It doesn't actually give any indicator as to what the language is like.
< 1288799664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the implementation, really, I just ranted about all my bugs :)
< 1288799672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't that funny, but it was cute
< 1288799676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, logreading is hardly a duty :)
< 1288799699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wow, possibly worst xkcd yet
< 1288799705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, not worst xkcd yet. but -- close ...
< 1288799721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a new video codec because all the existing ones suck, at least for encoding certain sorts of video
< 1288799750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really have time
< 1288799780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Good luck doing better than H.264 :P (Yeah, I know, you've said, but still.)
< 1288799813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H.264 can't even encode a black square on a white background properly if its dimensions aren't multiples of 16
< 1288799829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prop 19 failed? Lovely.
< 1288799835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOKS LIKE REDDIT ISN'T ALL-POWERFUL
< 1288799848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523_
< 1288799855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes it can
< 1288799862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: try x264 with quantisation set to 0
< 1288799864 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288799876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Active Worlds: Upgrading one update at a time, and repeatedly bugging me, is absolute fun on a bun
< 1288799880 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, how does that differ from being uncompressed?
< 1288799888 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't referring to quantisation, but to DCT artifacts
< 1288799903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it still does all the other interesting things; it ends up being a very high quality (we're talking insane compression) lossless codec
< 1288799931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: pikhq encoded a detailed 10-minute 3D short in 1080p losslessly and it was very small.
< 1288799936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only a few gigs; I forget the exact amount.
< 1288799939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq knows :P
< 1288799970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was 5 gigs.
< 1288799988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: And it still does DCT, as far as I know.
< 1288799996 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288800001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Quantisation is where the loss is.
< 1288800012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The discrete cosine transform *itself* is lossless.
< 1288800015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Basically, H.264 is not *designed* to encode pixel-accurately; no lossy codec is!
< 1288800049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall get coffee and then go to class
< 1288800072 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed; it's just the sort of artifacts it creates are really visible in certain circumstances, as opposed to, say, mp3's
< 1288800090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you clearly haven't seen the pathological mp3 testcases
< 1288800095 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty much designed on the basis of trying to cause artifacts that human hearing can't detect
< 1288800102 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not surprised there are pathological cases
< 1288800108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: turns out the eye is a lot more sensitive than the ear!
< 1288800113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, you may want to try some of x264's presets. preset=slow tune=animation gets wonderful results on animation.
< 1288800115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What surprise!
< 1288800119 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how mp3 handles, say, a pulsetrain
< 1288800122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it isn't ais523 doing the encoding
< 1288800125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's insane encoding freaks
< 1288800221 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pulsetrains have pretty close to pathological behaviour, as sound goes; I suppose a pulsetrain with random delays would be even worse)
< 1288800310 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288800322 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288800352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pulseplanes
< 1288801071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Alaska had more write-ins than votes for either party-line candidate.
< 1288801086 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They haven't tallied who the write-ins are for yet, though (apparently)
< 1288801116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:53:29 "sub f while !times 2 use spices endwhile endsub while !times 4 call f endwhile", "while !times 2 while !times 2 use spices endwhile endwhile", "while !times 2 while !times 4 use spices endwhile endwhile", "while !times 4 while !times 2 use spices endwhile endwhile" use spices 4, 3, 19, 5 times respectively
< 1288801117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god what
< 1288801125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sarah Palin
< 1288801130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Please, god, let it be Sarah Palin.
< 1288801193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's basically Republican-vs-Tea-Party.
< 1288801199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sweeeet
< 1288801200 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tea Party has 34% and the Republican ticket.
< 1288801213 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :41% is write-ins, and the Republican was running a write-in campaign.
< 1288801216 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So she MAY have won.
< 1288801226 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we don't know yet.
< 1288801240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Upside: No longer controlled by two parties
< 1288801247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Downside: Controlled by two parties and the Tea Party
< 1288801262 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOX has called Colorado blue, then red, then blue; they really can't make up their damned minds :P
< 1288801291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Let's... let's just go with red."
< 1288801292 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nobody else has called Colorado anything yet)
< 1288801448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "America's asshole"
< 1288801450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I JUST DID
< 1288802801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, I didn't realise -- Google made a Japanese font.
< 1288802884 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dear god what <--- we really need oklopol or someone to help with this
< 1288802893 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the second and fourth examples follow an obvious pattern
< 1288802911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oklopol has outgrown computers
< 1288802922 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even possible?
< 1288802930 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, someone else with the same atitude, then
< 1288802951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, he hasn't programmed in like a year or two afaik, and he only does math now, even when he comes in here :)
< 1288803065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
< 1288803288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL programs are arranged like companies
< 1288803291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they make sense to accountants
< 1288803310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, I just realised that
< 1288803314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're arranged like companies)
< 1288803323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN YOU GRAVE HOPPER
< 1288803343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GRACE
< 1288803362 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Last oerjan sighting: Oh apparently we forgot about 'im | Not the logs unless they are: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1288803391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone want to email oerjan?...
< 1288803394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to worry.
< 1288803394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you assuming oerjan is male?
< 1288803400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We've seen pictures?
< 1288803405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one picture.
< 1288803410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, oerjan has said /me [...]he[...] before.
< 1288803412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: someone assumed Gregor was female on that basis...
< 1288803420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, oerjan has said /me [...]he[...] before.
< 1288803424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, said picture was very much male :P
< 1288803434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so was the picture of Gregor!
< 1288803437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly Mike Riley was also very obviously a he but I *doubt* we're dealing with that here.
< 1288803438 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of my pictures are ambiguous :P
< 1288803445 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless hair length is your only determiner for sex.
< 1288803447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, haven't you done /me [...]she[...] before?
< 1288803455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As alise, yes, but that was to deliberately confuse people.
< 1288803471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have elevated hate of gendered pronouns to a superstitious level...
< 1288803487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Everyone thinks I'm female :P
< 1288803488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really hate them, but they make me feel awkward
< 1288803491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally everyone.
< 1288803504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you know 'im is male?
< 1288803505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you?
< 1288803512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? Yes.
< 1288803522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, elliott believes herself female
< 1288803528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tragic state of affairs, being agreed with by everyone
< 1288803532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1288803538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think your male, mainly to make your "everyone" generalization wrong.
< 1288803549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott has a male?
< 1288803550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your wrong.
< 1288803622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone still actually uses Slackware :) *troll*
< 1288803731 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My wrong? Not your wrong?
< 1288803754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think your male, mainly to make your "everyone" generalization wrong.
< 1288803758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your wrong.
< 1288803776 0 :cheater!~damian@93.190.71.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288803779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Gregor was literally thinking about elliott's male
< 1288803780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... touche :P
< 1288803811 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's is cleverer
< 1288803818 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1288803822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My male is the cleverest wrong.
< 1288803829 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288803955 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bow ... chicka ... bow ... wow?
< 1288803976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288804064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5ce98cba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.233.140.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288804086 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288804090 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288804094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.,
< 1288804108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer has completely ceased to function.
< 1288804200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it boots to the login screen, then the mouse and keyboard have no effect whatsoever.
< 1288804223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The virtual terminals are inaccessible, although alt-sysrq still works.
< 1288804280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BUY A MAC
< 1288804300 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's what I'm on right now, but that's irrelevant.
< 1288804401 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288804412 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288804764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You know the best thing about reinstalling Debian?? YOU GET TO INSTALL DEBIAN!
< 1288805186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus, some Debian packages are rather out of date...
< 1288805195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some *sid* packsges.
< 1288805201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*packages.
< 1288805295 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1288805809 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288806245 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288806509 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288806739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288807004 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288807152 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288807229 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288808545 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5ce9ae75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288808564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: it was my own damn fault.
< 1288808633 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288808639 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288808827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What did you do wrong?
< 1288808905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suspect I screwed up the fstab, but that doesn't explain *everything*.
< 1288808913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the weird splash art.
< 1288809005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is also worth noting that $HOME was totally empty for me upon booting)
< 1288809034 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, might as well reboot now.
< 1288809040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288809197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html I propose we adopt this time system.
< 1288809205 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288809209 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288809267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was better when I thought "person" was someone's nick, though.
< 1288809314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5ce9ae75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288809317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New plan!
< 1288809328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reinstall Ubuntu, then replace it with something that doesn't hate me!
< 1288809341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the second part is still hypothetical!
< 1288809341 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288809350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just install Debian.
< 1288809375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but I need a running OS on my hard drive before I start trying that stuff.
< 1288809407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, s/need/want/
< 1288809438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A broken OS is the ideal place to install something else :P
< 1288809455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, but not when you can only use sysrq.
< 1288809466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can burn a CD from that Mac...
< 1288809467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer it if it was only half-broken.
< 1288809494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ANYWAY
< 1288809566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, I need to DO THINGS, so it'll have to wait for a couple of hours in any case.
< 1288809578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1288809908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As for memory, glibc 2 has more stuff than libc 5. It has to bigger libc 5. I don't call it libc 6 if it is smaller than libc 5." -- H. J. Lu
< 1288809909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat.
< 1288809917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOFTWARE IS NOT ALLOWED TO GET SMALLER
< 1288810499 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288810503 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1288810818 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You don't really see a 'boogie down' button in an elevator very often."
< 1288811398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oklahoma wins 'dumbest ballot initiative'
< 1288811803 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288811844 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288811902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...what xD
< 1288811929 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there needs to be a
< 1288811932 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double down
< 1288811932 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :button
< 1288812053 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288812382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhkxDIr0y2U THIS FOREVER AND BEYOND
< 1288812806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a primary reason with C code being hard to get right is that you often end up doing accesses like pointer + index in loops. Getting linked lists or trees right in C is almost trivial. Sure not as easy as a real high level language (you still have to be careful with NULL and invalid pointers).
< 1288812807 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bahaha
< 1288812821 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dudley Do-Right, "Coming Out Party"
< 1288812831 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 outdated English :P
< 1288812915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D
< 1288814460 0 :iGO!iGO@78.130.4.142.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288814645 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1288814681 0 :iGO!iGO@78.130.4.142.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288815138 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1288815183 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1288815350 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288815540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://release.debian.org/migration/oldest.html -- the forgotten packages.
< 1288815670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.6/i386/iso-cd/ Debian: It's 31 motherfucking CDs.
< 1288816141 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288817559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian reinstall time ahoy.
< 1288817596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288819867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my printer went mad. It can print any single page just fine. Printing two the second page look like MISSINGNO
< 1288819889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can print this pdf by selecting to print one page at a time
< 1288819908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing happens from a text editor, so it isn't just pdf viewer going insane
< 1288819915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be cups going insane I guess
< 1288820021 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're trying to print in *linux*?
< 1288820043 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use netcat of ot
< 1288820048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it has worked for *years*
< 1288820051 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a network printer, or cat if it's local
< 1288820054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it's a HP printer
< 1288820057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb
< 1288820062 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after converting to plain ps
< 1288820064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked perfectly under linux
< 1288820071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never got it to work well under windows
< 1288820077 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, I refuse to believe it
< 1288820114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, HP printers are well supported under linux. Unlike most other printers. Kind of like how Intel is well supported when it comes to GPUs
< 1288820345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ska ha en "datortenta" imorgon.
< 1288820350 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :udda format
< 1288820357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(för tentor vill säga)
< 1288820368 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en sån där du sitter vid dator och kodar eller?
< 1288820378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, just det
< 1288820422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, reglerna är ganska vaga: "förutom kursliteraturen får man ha med sig egna anteckningar" mhm... *hehe*
< 1288820453 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :är perfekt för kodkurser iaf
< 1288820472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, om jag bara får skrivaren att fungera kommer jag att ha med en utskrift av en implementation av ett AVL-träd som jag skrev idag..
< 1288820495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :såvitt jag kan se tillåter reglerna det även om det kanske inte var tanken
< 1288820511 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :men ... vet inte om det är värt det när man kommer på fortsättningskurserna, då är det mycket bättre om tentan testar koncept utan att man behöver koda
< 1288820520 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :så kan man ha labbserie eller projekt där man får koda istället
< 1288820537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, jo, men jag läser ju inte på master-nivå än så...
< 1288820539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone's postscript printers work well; I guess HP's custom-protocol nonsense works reasonably well too, though.
< 1288820557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had CUPS go all confused recently too; "reinstalling" the printer fixed it, though.
< 1288820572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed it does. And actually after powering off and unplugging the printer then waiting a minute or so before plugging it in again it seems to work normally
< 1288820585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it's internal state got confused somehow
< 1288820596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's an old printer, I'm surprised it lasted this many years
< 1288820598 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fix was to turn it off and on again? :)
< 1288820614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, no. Nothing as simple.
< 1288820651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, turning it off *and* unplugging, waiting for what was presumably capacitors to discharge *then* plugging it in again and turning it on
< 1288820658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIGHLY technical fix
< 1288820749 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288820773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I can never seem to remember more than 5 minutes which rotation is which and when you use it. And well the course literature is in English, so checking that at the exam would take ages.
< 1288820945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever been in an exam which allowed any random notes; there's been some open-book ones where the course literature goes, and some with the official lecture notes too, but none with completely custom material.
< 1288821026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hm btw looking at the exam papers of previous years this teacher seems to have two discrete levels of imagination when making up "scenarios" for the questions... Those are: "absurd" and "utterly absurd"
< 1288821040 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it would definitely be harder to read the book if it was in swedish
< 1288821054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you mean because it would be short, concise and so on?
< 1288821085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of something you could use for tactical cover in a gunfight
< 1288821095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use as*
< 1288821099 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a*
< 1288821100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1288821107 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, because it would be written in swedish
< 1288821122 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no-one knows any swedish computer terms
< 1288821135 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither do I, so whatever they make up is just gibberish
< 1288821145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, actually I have had some course Swedish litterateur, mostly they mention both terms.
< 1288821170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually work fairly well because they are *not* paid per word
< 1288821177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the authors that is)
< 1288821195 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you mostly have to find the right book
< 1288821300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some Finnish computer terminology "officially" specified by Kielitoimisto (the help-the-people division of the Research Institute for the Languages of Finland), and some of those are completely ludicrous and/or unknown.
< 1288821304 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "introduction to algorithms" one (http://mitpress.mit.edu/algorithms/) is not very good since it's too long
< 1288821331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, that too. The one on data structures and such I have here in Swedish uses examples in, pseudo-code, ML and java. Not always in a redundant fashion though. Fairly good except one place. Translated to English it would say something like: "Deletion of interior nodes in red-black trees is too complex to fit the scope of this book, and is thus left as an exercise to the reader."
< 1288821344 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very strange, and doesn't match at all with the rest of the book.
< 1288821379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of our machine-learning/information-science/etc. textbooks haven't been so overly verbose as, say, some of the maths textbooks.
< 1288821414 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we used http://www.amazon.com/Structures-Their-Algorithms-Harry-Lewis/dp/067339736X, I remember it as being concise enough
< 1288821414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1288821422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5ce9ae75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288821433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, moth math ones have been in Swedish for me so far
< 1288821438 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288821464 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181137037.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288821476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, 404
< 1288821477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moth math!
< 1288821481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1288821483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn comma
< 1288821536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our basic maths course textbooks were in English; Finnish is admittedly a smaller language market, of course. More specialized courses have had some books in Finnish too. (Mostly written by our current/former lecturers.)
< 1288821562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, a bit sad that I can't fit a full featured AVL into much less than 150 lines + 20 lines header file
< 1288821565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1288821571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not without making it obfuscated that is
< 1288821617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads Sgeo's Wikipedia user page.
< 1288821628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a not-so-bad general-purpose pattern recognition book: http://cgi.di.uoa.gr/~stpatrec/welcome3d.html -- though the Bishop book http://www.amazon.com/Pattern-Recognition-Learning-Information-Statistics/dp/0387310738/ is not bad either, I hear.
< 1288821638 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look, he has e^(a+bi) and i^i there.
< 1288821644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like cargo-cult maths.
< 1288821651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's already a Fourth Edition of Theodoridis & Koutroumbas.
< 1288821652 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm single largest thing is handling walking the tree... due to handling all combinations of {pre,post,in}{left-to-right,right-to-left}
< 1288821711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless he actually learnt calculus at some point.
< 1288821769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, must dash.
< 1288821774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i^i? what's the point?
< 1288821780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288821817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an irrational real number *shrug*
< 1288821853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288822070 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.rh.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288822122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_who_is_no_longer_here: Those two numbers have been there since Oct 2004.
< 1288822511 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288822593 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288822653 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Onwards and Debianwards!
< 1288822734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, fizzie left an important message to you in the logs
< 1288822774 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:08:42 Phantom_Hoover_who_is_no_longer_here: Those two numbers have been there since Oct 2004.
< 1288822778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some very small values of "important".
< 1288822790 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Sgeo was what, 14?
< 1288822796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm?
< 1288822805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, it wouldn't have sounded good if I had said "a message of no actual consequence"
< 1288822819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Good, no, honest, maybe.
< 1288822827 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I was pondering why you have e^(a+bi) and i^i on your user page.
< 1288822854 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When, by your own account, you're a few limits short of a differential.
< 1288822870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought those were interesting
< 1288822882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although i^i still confuses me
< 1288822892 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, OK, it goes like this:
< 1288822912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, since truth <=> beauty, so follows that beauty <=> truth (since <=> is symmetrical)
< 1288822915 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i^i = -1^(½i)
< 1288822933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and thus it must be true that it was important
< 1288822940 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := e^a
< 1288822959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is confusing about i^i?
< 1288822961 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a?
< 1288822968 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, just a variable.
< 1288822992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it had turned out to be, 1 or pi or something I could have understood...
< 1288822992 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = ½i ln -1
< 1288823029 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since e^i*pi = -1, ln -1 = i*pi
< 1288823047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, indeed. and that is a lot more interesting than plain i^i
< 1288823057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... makes sense
< 1288823066 0 :elliott`!5b68f121@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.104.241.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288823073 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence a = ... -pi? Wait, I'm confusing myself.
< 1288823077 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian -- the only operating system that ships with two graphical web browsers!
< 1288823088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, in the default install?
< 1288823090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks way more complicated than just going e^(pi/2*i) = i => i^i = (e^(pi/2*i))^i = e^(i*(pi/2)*i) = e^(-pi/2).
< 1288823091 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't have Mathematica any more.
< 1288823097 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1288823101 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Epiphany and Iceweasel.
< 1288823106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, huh, why
< 1288823116 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because GNOME ships with Epiphany and Epiphany sucks, I'd guess :)
< 1288823117 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, so we get the same result.
< 1288823118 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good.
< 1288823125 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian's "gnome" package is stock GNOME + Debian extras.
< 1288823136 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably Iceweasel is among the extras.
< 1288823141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, exactly, is e^ai defined to be cos a + i sin a?
< 1288823142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, they don't have it split in multiple packages?
< 1288823152 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, Taylor series.
< 1288823155 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes they do.
< 1288823163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, damn you beat me to it
< 1288823189 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explaining that in IRC is an exercise in futility, though.
< 1288823205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, taylor series? indeed...
< 1288823253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't completely understand how they work myself
< 1288823256 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Basically*, e^ix = 1 + ix - x^2/2! - ix^3/3!...
< 1288823282 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And shockingly, it even almost works with YouTube out of the box!
< 1288823295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, "almost"?
< 1288823302 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cos x (in radians) = 1 - x^2/2! + x^4/4!...
< 1288823306 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, I never had problems with youtube-dl ;P
< 1288823313 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It loads the UI and everything, it just says "An unknown error has occurred" instead of the video.
< 1288823318 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin x = x - x^3/3! + x^5/5!...
< 1288823319 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNASH POWER
< 1288823323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, the confusing bit is *why* it is so
< 1288823327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, haha
< 1288823332 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait --
< 1288823336 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An error occurred, please try again later."
< 1288823343 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, like in a few years. When Gnash works.
< 1288823363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, is it an error message from gnash or from youtube?
< 1288823374 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jewtube.
< 1288823387 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jewtube.com/ It exists!
< 1288823395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, what is that page?
< 1288823397 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, well, I can't explain that without calculus, which Sgeo doesn't seem to exude confidence in.
< 1288823398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I dare click?
< 1288823400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^(i(a+bi)) = e^(ia + ibi) = e^(-b + ai) = cos(a+bi) + i sin (a+bi) = (e^-b)(cos a + i sin a)
< 1288823411 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's YouTube for Jews.
< 1288823412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I know the basics.
< 1288823432 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What, exactly, do they teach you in US high school?
< 1288823445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, personally I always found discrete math way easier than calculus. And less of a hell when it came to exams too.
< 1288823446 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you get trigonometry at 17 or something? Don't answer that, I imagine the result will be depressing.
< 1288823457 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, OK, so d/dx(e^ax) = ae^ax.
< 1288823472 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pleasepleaseplease tell me you know the chain rule.
< 1288823475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1288823478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, I doubt they teach Taylor series are in high school though
< 1288823486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, even in UK
< 1288823489 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, they do in Scotland.
< 1288823493 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Was that yes to my question or Phantom_Hoover_'s?
< 1288823494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, wow
< 1288823497 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we did Maclaurin series.
< 1288823503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_'s
< 1288823505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, hm?
< 1288823520 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think Taylor series are in the Sixth Form Further Maths course or whatever.
< 1288823522 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, a subset of Taylor series.
< 1288823535 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're in AH (final year) maths in Scotland.
< 1288823535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, ah, right. Rings a bell now
< 1288823550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think I was too unfocused to recognize the applicability until you mentioned it
< 1288823552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1288823580 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maclaurin series are definitely in sixth form further maths.
< 1288823581 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just googled.
< 1288823593 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now watch as I try and disable root's password and switch to sudo ENTIRELY FROM WITHIN GNOME
< 1288823594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, I see. Not around here though.
< 1288823608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, how would that be hard? just open gnome-terminal
< 1288823616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, ...ok
< 1288823618 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That would end up directly invoking non-GNOME programs :)
< 1288823619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um
< 1288823628 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just seemed to have stopped talking
< 1288823632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, then it probably can't be done
< 1288823636 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, this next bit requires quite a lot of algebra.
< 1288823681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O...k? I'm too tired to work anything out, but I can follow along
< 1288823729 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm... OK, so we want f(x) = a_0 + a_1x + a_2x^2 + ... for some f.
< 1288823765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, to approximate e^x?
< 1288823766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^ax
< 1288823789 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the infinite series _is_ f(x) here.
< 1288823794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... think I see where you're going with this
< 1288823818 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, I just added myself to the sudo group using GNOME.
< 1288823824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we really need to deal with the a?
< 1288823832 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we just look at e^x to simplify our lives?
< 1288823836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, why do you hate su btw?
< 1288823853 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well, it's no great difference.
< 1288823858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Becaus then a_0 + a_1x + a_2x^2 + ... = a_1 + 2a_2x + ...
< 1288823868 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Did I ever say I hate su?
< 1288823875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, no but you acted like it
< 1288823880 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I didn't.
< 1288823883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that not the direction we're going?
< 1288823888 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't hate su; I like sudo more, at least for a desktop.
< 1288823893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1288823895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, why is that?
< 1288823909 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so f'(x) = a_1 + 2a_2x + 3a_3x^2 + ...
< 1288823916 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have almost certainly heard all the arguments and come up with counter-arguments, so what's the point?
< 1288823931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, thank you for reminding me why I prefer discrete math.
< 1288823955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, personally I don't care about sudo vs. su
< 1288823961 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to pretend that descrete math doesn't exist
< 1288823974 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f''(x) = 2a_2x + 3*2a_3x^2 + 4*3a_4x^3 + ..
< 1288823999 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If I didn't use sudo, I'd just have root's password be my user password, which is absurd.
< 1288824005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, well okay, sudo is somewhat more complex than su, thus potentially prone to more bugs. I do remember seeing the occasional CVE for sudo, but su? not as far as I can remember.
< 1288824019 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f'*n(0) = n!a_n
< 1288824020 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now the fun thing the last time I used Debian/GNOME was that PolicyKit's default confiugration really loves su, so it's hard to set it properly.
< 1288824027 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where f'*n is the nth derivative)
< 1288824029 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait what?
< 1288824029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, eh I'm not sure I completely agree that is an effect of using su
< 1288824033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for some perhaps
< 1288824033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1288824034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1288824041 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For me, yes.
< 1288824043 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sudo is not, as far as I know, significantly more complex than su.
< 1288824048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait what?
< 1288824050 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, su is a lot older, so it's likely to be much more mature.
< 1288824056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, you forgot a term in f''(x)
< 1288824072 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, right you are.
< 1288824100 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, decrease all the exponents there by one.
< 1288824113 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, can you understand the f'*n(0) bit?
< 1288824135 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1288824160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although out of curiosity, is there a strict and formal way to do that?
< 1288824164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, su is: check password, start shell. sudo is: read config file, parse it (and it has quite a lot of features, such as only allowing editing of files as a different user and what not), then check if we should keep some env vars, and discard some (as specified in the config), then ask user for own or target password, or none at all (as specified in the config) and so on
< 1288824172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it just noticing the pattern and having a strong grasp why it is what it is?
< 1288824188 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes, it's simple enough induction, but formalising it is pointless here.
< 1288824197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, so yes, I would call it a bit more complex
< 1288824198 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a fucking *desktop*
< 1288824203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, true
< 1288824207 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, a_n = f'*n(0)/n!.
< 1288824212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, I have nothing very much against sudo. I use it myself
< 1288824214 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"such as only allowing editing of files as a different user and what not" ;; afaik it's actually just command-based
< 1288824223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, I was just wondering why *you* preferred sudo over su
< 1288824233 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence f(x) = f(0) + f'(0)x + f''(0)x^2/2! +...
< 1288824246 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 'Cuz I like it.
< 1288824253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind = blown
< 1288824272 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That last formula is the definition of a Maclaurin series, by the way.
< 1288824291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is absolutely amazing and beautiful
< 1288824321 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in the case of e^x, f'*n(0) = 1, and f(x) = 1 + x + x^2/2! + x^3/3! + ...
< 1288824357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott`, okay...
< 1288824382 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be able to see for yourself that the derivatives of e^ix cycle between e^ix, ie^ix, -e^ix and -ie^ix.
< 1288824396 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you just multiply by i each time.
< 1288824421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's why we were talking about e^ax
< 1288824431 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence f'*n(0) cycles 1, i, -1, i, ...
< 1288824439 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-i for that last one.
< 1288824443 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:44] That is absolutely amazing and beautiful
< 1288824446 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait 'til you see euler's equation
< 1288824450 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288824457 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm getting to...
< 1288824501 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the derivatives of sin x cycle along sin x, cos x, -sin x, -cos x, ...
< 1288824519 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same for cos x, but with the phase shifted along by one.
< 1288824523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of weird that i, pi, e ties so neatly to together when you think about it.
< 1288824562 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence f'*n(0) = 0, 1, 0, -1, ... for sin and 1, 0, -1, 0, ... for cos.
< 1288824572 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.166 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288824599 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So sin x = x - x^3/3! + x^5/5! - ...
< 1288824626 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And cos x = 1 - x^2/2! + x^4/4! - ...
< 1288824707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^ix = 1 + ix + -x^2/2! + -x^3/3!
< 1288824708 0 :elliott`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288824713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ ... ?
< 1288824730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait
< 1288824736 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, e^ix = (1 - x^2/2! + x^4/4! - ...) + i(x - x^3/3! + x^5/5! - ...)
< 1288824739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be -ix^3/3!
< 1288824766 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1288824786 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those two brackets are the exact series for sin and cos, so e^ix = cos x + i sin x.
< 1288824790 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1288824854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you
< 1288824858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's beautiful
< 1288824898 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Staggeringly.
< 1288824949 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tremendous fun to derive, too.
< 1288825286 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Dickin' around doin' nuthin'.
< 1288825340 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1288825633 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288825761 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288825765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting Decisions, #N: Shipping TeX fonts by default. Why? I don't know...
< 1288825785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure makes the font selector a lot more irritating to use, though.
< 1288825805 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288825818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1288825918 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uy
< 1288825925 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288825930 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this mathematics has made me forget to install Debian.
< 1288825956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: 64-bit, right?
< 1288825959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/squeeze_di_beta1/amd64/iso-cd/debian-squeeze-di-beta1-amd64-netinst.iso
< 1288825961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun.
< 1288825972 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh
< 1288825982 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bare debian is not funny
< 1288825991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: "Bare" Debian comes with GNOME these days.
< 1288825998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Firef^WIceweasel.
< 1288826012 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1288826018 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288826021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wait 'til you see euler's equation <-- his identity or his formula? I don't remember one called "equation"
< 1288826026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, identity.
< 1288826030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1288826036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: At least if you don't untick "Graphical environment", which presumably only someone not wanting a graphical environment would do.
< 1288826037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then indeed
< 1288826050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: There's a small bit of tweaking to get it workings udo-style, if you want, afterwards, but stock Debian is actually perfectly usable.
< 1288826074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*working sudo-style,
< 1288826080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tells GNOME he wants to use Iceweasel, not Epiphany.
< 1288826086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You see, the thing is, Epiphany sucks.)
< 1288826089 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have they got against su?
< 1288826097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use su by default.
< 1288826100 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sudo
< 1288826100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't :)
< 1288826102 0 :Zuu_!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288826132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: They just don't ship it by default and there's no obvious way to configure gksu/PolicyKit. However, once you're in the sudo group, it's just one gconf edit and one file copy and quick edit.
< 1288826141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat fails at text rendering when you change the font settings, brb.
< 1288826142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1288826161 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what do they have against sudo?
< 1288826176 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288826246 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sources confirmed that while searching for a fertile female politician with whom to repopulate Congress, DeFazio discovered the body of a still-breathing Christine O'Donnell and crushed her neck with the heel of his shoe."
< 1288826249 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.90.101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288826253 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear peer: wtf did I do wrong?
< 1288826271 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:16:01 But what do they have against sudo?
< 1288826275 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288826279 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah, that explains everything?
< 1288826282 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.
< 1288826293 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing they have against $anything_they_don't_ship_by_default_for_whatever_reason; nothing, they just don't ship it by default.
< 1288826451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1288826504 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll move my home directory over piecemeal, rather than all at once.
< 1288826507 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott
< 1288826510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1288826510 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288826519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: No separate home partition?! !OOZOZMOOMOMG (note: i don't have one either)
< 1288826527 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I do.
< 1288826532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just re-use it.
< 1288826559 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I'm wary of bunging every setting from Ubuntu straight into minimalistic Debian.
< 1288826581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Just rm -rf .*
< 1288826589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Also, um, you have a terrible impression of Debian.
< 1288826600 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, yes
< 1288826608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian default installer is almost identical to Ubuntu that takes a bit more fiddling to get how you want :P
< 1288826610 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't complaining, but anyway...
< 1288826619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd just remove all settings, really.
< 1288826639 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a couple of conf files I'd quite like to keep...
< 1288826642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a new OS, new configuration! New hassle!
< 1288826656 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My .zshrc, for one thing.
< 1288826689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh users, aka bash users minus a few years
< 1288826693 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one or two app-specific folders.
< 1288826707 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're just jealous!
< 1288826712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I used zsh for ages.
< 1288826715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1288826730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, don't do rm -rf .*
< 1288826732 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, bad idea
< 1288826751 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The man with no sense of sarcasm.
< 1288826753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, you would lose stuff like saved passwords in mozilla, ssh keys, gpg keys
< 1288826758 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1288826783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually -- when updating, that is -- just move my whole home directory to something like "_" or "oldhome" or "archive", and then lie to myself that I'll sort through it on my leisure.
< 1288826788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, alternatively: the man who spent too much time in distro support channels
< 1288826806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Leading to paths like ~/_/oldhome/archive/prog/_/archived_prog/old/...)
< 1288826807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what distro would mangle it?
< 1288826824 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_Any_ time in distro support channels is too much time.
< 1288826827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you need to move stuff away
< 1288826828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's just that I like a clean start.
< 1288826837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh okay
< 1288826844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you don't use rolling release then
< 1288826881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: stop being stupid and making points by condescending assumptions you know to be false
< 1288826885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is an avid Debianer :P
< 1288826890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for some definition of avid.
< 1288826894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: The man with no sense of sarcasm.
< 1288826897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was figurative
< 1288826900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh is he? I didn't remember that
< 1288826900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"delete all configuration"
< 1288826936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just concluded that he didn't use rolling release based on the evidence
< 1288826984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not really any sort of evidence.
< 1288827006 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels like an idiot.
< 1288827016 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I meant to get the ISO onto a flash drive?
< 1288827019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, it would be rather ill-defined what a major upgrade on rolling release was. And if it was every upgrade it would be rather inconvenient since they happen all the time
< 1288827028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, unetbootin?
< 1288827039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last reinstall was when switching from Debian to Ubuntu on this workstation. (But I still have all other computers here Debian installations, so I'm still an avid Debianer, just a bit less avid.)
< 1288827077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the one before that when I switched in some much larger HDs, and took that as a good chance to pretend I'd clean up my ~ again.
< 1288827101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, alternative answers: Using a computer. By plugging the flash drive into the relevant (probably USB) port.
< 1288827108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no, I don't wipe out ~ on every "aptitude upgrade".
< 1288827110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the first one was most useful though
< 1288827117 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I effing guessed the second one.
< 1288827125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, :P
< 1288827127 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume I can't just dd across.
< 1288827140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, iirc you need a special boot sector
< 1288827145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, unetbootin is easy to use
< 1288827185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, GUI program and all that
< 1288827443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1288827449 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# Trigonometry or Algebra 3 or Pre-Calculus: ages 15+]] — WP, on the US maths curriculum.
< 1288827464 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# Calculus: ages 16+ (usually seen in 12th grade, if at all; some honors students may see it earlier).]] AAA
< 1288827495 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waitaminute, that's the normal age in Scotland.
< 1288827505 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just young for my year.
< 1288828187 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288828455 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: did you see my complaint about Oklahoma?
< 1288828951 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@xdsl-83-150-123-242.nebulazone.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288828986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288828989 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288828991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288828994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288828996 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko
< 1288829002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288829006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288829009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288829016 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288829020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288829021 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko
< 1288829026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288829031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288829034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288829039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288829042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288829043 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko
< 1288829047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1288829050 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everyone
< 1288829053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name is oklopol
< 1288829057 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol ominovorol
< 1288829059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm here to stay
< 1288829165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonoDevelop or SharpDevelop?
< 1288829188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SharpDevelop
< 1288829226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elaborate?
< 1288829240 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has more BAZAP
< 1288829252 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...?
< 1288829258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a nicer name
< 1288829306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's sharpdevelop?
< 1288829334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.icsharpcode.net/opensource/sd/
< 1288829385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1288829390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a text editor
< 1288829448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to go ahead and assume that both SharpDevelop and MonoDevelop are more lightweight than Visual Studio
< 1288829466 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :visual studio i've used, it's a nice text editor
< 1288829556 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288829575 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: why are you here to stay?
< 1288829628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't i be?
< 1288829768 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: saying 'okokoko...' lots of times
< 1288829791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathnerd is noob
< 1288829798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi okky!!!
< 1288829801 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1288829817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko
< 1288829844 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly. when did you come to this realization?
< 1288829851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Mrf
< 1288829866 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: agreed
< 1288829871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you dissed okky
< 1288829939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah everyone learns to love me with time
< 1288829958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup
< 1288829965 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, ok.
< 1288829997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey Mathnerd314, are you a math nerd
< 1288830002 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so do you think I'm a noob in general or just in context of okky?
< 1288830029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too complex question
< 1288830032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko
< 1288830034 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I would say so, from a biased perspective
< 1288830070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of math nerdity do you do
< 1288830207 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
< 1288830216 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thin lens approximation in 3d
< 1288830228 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: abstract algebra, mostly
< 1288830233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh
< 1288830235 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i find that goddamn transformation matrix
< 1288830240 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what algebras
< 1288830251 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAOAAOAOAOOAOA
< 1288830258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you like
< 1288830262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best
< 1288830332 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288830496 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: commutative ones
< 1288830531 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288830542 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me something cool about them
< 1288830594 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather hard, since we're studying *noncommutative* algebras :p
< 1288830663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are the operations, do algebras where you just have a commutative operator have some common properties, or are we talking about + and *
< 1288830717 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commutative algebras seem to consist mostly of rings, ideals, and modules, all of which have both + and *
< 1288830737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ideal is an algebra?
< 1288830739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what sense
< 1288830748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1288830769 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplication operators and addition? does each ideal give you a module like that?
< 1288830837 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clarification: are we talking about fields of mathematics or specific types of mathematical objects?
< 1288830857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we're talking about objects
< 1288830922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my specific question is
< 1288830929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh
< 1288830942 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" commutative algebras seem to consist mostly of rings, ideals, and modules, all of which have both + and *" <<< so this was about fields, not objects
< 1288830970 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. s/algebras/algebra/
< 1288831054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1288831061 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me something about noncommutative algebras
< 1288831074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something sexy
< 1288831160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i've done with algebra recently was inventing homomorphisms, i came up with this marvellous way to associate semigroups and groups to algebras, and of course it was just a convoluted implementation of homomorphism (semi)groups
< 1288831163 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about "sexy"... but all semisimple ones are just matrices
< 1288831241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so first of all what do we have, we have a... ring? or do we have an algebra in the sense ring-module-hybrid
< 1288831268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't done noncommutative algebra, so i can't really jump into a vague explanation, you'll have to set theory it up
< 1288831279 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a ring
< 1288831282 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1288831283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1288831295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semisimple?
< 1288831359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but all semisimple ones are just matrices" <<< if a ring has the property of semisimplicity, you can implement the ring as a ring of matrices?
< 1288831372 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"for all modules over this ring, every submodule has a complement so that the module is a direct sum of the submodule and its complement"
< 1288831388 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ semisimple
< 1288831398 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ring)
< 1288831408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be a clever pun about how non-simple that definition is
< 1288831415 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if i get it
< 1288831450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that seems natural enough i guess
< 1288831546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so was my interpretation up there correct
< 1288831586 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, pretty much.
< 1288831644 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might be some weird-looking matrices though
< 1288831661 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given R, i don't really know at all what modules over it are
< 1288831756 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a module is something that it makes sense to multiply by an element of the ring
< 1288831772 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, you can multiply vectors by a scalar
< 1288831797 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a module is that operation, but without constraints like commutativity etc.
< 1288831808 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :module = abelian group + scalar multiplication by ring elements, with some compatibility axioms, right
< 1288831834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1288831882 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm completely wrong ain't i
< 1288831895 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that looks about right
< 1288831933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just wondering
< 1288831942 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah just non-commutative ring
< 1288832001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering where non-commutativity can be found if the vectors form an abelian group, but that place is the ring
< 1288832067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose result is that, and from what year, are you a researcher, do you have a degree, do you have publications, and what do you work on
< 1288832228 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"theorem about semisimple rings", ~20-30 years ago (IIRC), no, no, not much
< 1288832306 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rereads and wikipedia's
< 1288832317 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's the Artin-Wedderburn theorem
< 1288832325 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never was much for names though
< 1288832336 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh me neither
< 1288832358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1288832378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't associate them to the theorems very well, so i tend not to care about them for that reason
< 1288832532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was mainly wondering if that was something you had been working on, you never know
< 1288832731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288832733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1288832796 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288832796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phanty revealed his age, he
< 1288832797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1288832801 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's just a math course I'm taking now, mostly for fun
< 1288833009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw you had less answers than i had questions, methinks
< 1288833035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314 has failed his duty to oklopol.
< 1288833040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oerjan's disappeared :(
< 1288833044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1288833045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hasn't been in here for like 10, 11 days
< 1288833046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1288833055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which he's never done before, afaik
< 1288833059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also he has no life so a holiday is unlikely :)
< 1288833085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so what was this Norwegian guy, name starts with V
< 1288833093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: said you were there, norway hostname, lilja came in soon after
< 1288833100 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we stayed at his house
< 1288833115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so you were the only one of them who hates us too much to log in :D
< 1288833129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't carry my computer around
< 1288833133 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate computers
< 1288833140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1288833170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so by "here to stay", do you mean you're not going to suddenly not be here for ages, or do you just mean for today
< 1288833195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question
< 1288833246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well if it's the latter, i will make sure finland gets bombed
< 1288833248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin'
< 1288833256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1288833294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol likes bombs too much
< 1288833453 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1288833474 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: indeed, I've been taking notes than memorizing the material, because I probably won't see anything like it again
< 1288833489 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rather than memorizing
< 1288833490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God. Rand Paul won his race.
< 1288833495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rand fucking Paul.
< 1288833508 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the USA is retarded
< 1288833517 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is there something wrong with Rand Paul?
< 1288833518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be illegal for rand paul to have such a close name to ron paul
< 1288833525 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: nono the personal questions
< 1288833527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: He is fucking crazy.
< 1288833528 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone pass a balanced budget requirement?
< 1288833530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i listed questions
< 1288833533 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if he did, looooooooooool
< 1288833533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can blame Ron Paul for that.
< 1288833542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why not rand paul
< 1288833546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you answered one less than i asked, not sure which you omitted
< 1288833549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his name isn't rand paul it's randal howard paul
< 1288833550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Rand Paul is Ron Paul's son.
< 1288833560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1288833563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO HE IS
< 1288833568 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balanced budgets are totally wrong for governments
< 1288833579 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh, just make it 3 no's instead of 2
< 1288833579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the fact that rand paul is middle-aged says something about how old ron paul is :)
< 1288833593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, there was a ballot question on whether or not to forbid the state from *taking out any loans* here.
< 1288833614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me that tapeworm one passed in Washington.
< 1288833627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh god
< 1288833639 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever feel that most of this should be in #esoteric-blah rather than #esoteric ?
< 1288833642 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me it failed
< 1288833644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i propose that the state is not allowed to spend money
< 1288833645 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: no
< 1288833657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: none of us are hierarchy and organisation-obsessed enough to disrupt the flow like that
< 1288833662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, most of #esoteric is off-topic.
< 1288833685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It failed hardcore.
< 1288833695 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew
< 1288833702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: 73% against.
< 1288833708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your populace has demonstrated basic macroeconomic literacy
< 1288833709 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what state?
< 1288833713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colorado.
< 1288833713 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is #esoblah disorganized enough?
< 1288833726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: we like talking about random shit
< 1288833728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want esolangs talk
< 1288833732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say something esolang-related and interesting :)
< 1288833734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: There were also questions about reducing/eliminating various taxes.
< 1288833764 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and?
< 1288833776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you know what, I'll look myself
< 1288833786 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what? you're in colorado too?
< 1288833790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: For instance, halving property tax, halving income tax, maxing vehicle taxes to $100 a year, and eliminating property taxes on those who use state-owned land for a private use.
< 1288833801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: All of them failed.
< 1288833805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Yeah.
< 1288833805 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288833879 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did Amendment P fail?
< 1288833910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ballotpedia is cool
< 1288833921 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what I'm looking on
< 1288833925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It would cost a small amount of money this year if enacted, I guess?
< 1288833929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "Amendment P, which would move regulation of all games of chance into the Department of Revenue, would ultimately have the effect of reducing cost — or should have that effect....However, there’s a $116,000 expected startup cost, which in another year might be fine, but this year is not. Vote against."
< 1288833938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the one below which just opposed all constitutional amendments
< 1288833971 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you're even in driving distance.
< 1288833975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not too upset about it failing, though. Sure, it'd be beneficial, but it's a structural detail that doesn't matter *too* much, y'know?
< 1288833980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Orly? Where are you?
< 1288833986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least prop 19 was only beaten by a small margin.
< 1288833994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(54 to 46, rounding)
< 1288833997 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: colorado springs, next to the interstate
< 1288833997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(percent, that is)
< 1288834011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Which side of town?
< 1288834089 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: north-ish
< 1288834089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kinda amazed anyone was opposed to Amendment Q.
< 1288834104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Mmm...
< 1288834123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: May have to meet up sometime for God-knows-what.
< 1288834136 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: geohashing!
< 1288834144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The Steamboat Today appears to be the only media outlet to disapprove of Amendment Q because of its strange no-constitutional-amendments policy.
< 1288834158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Some of this fall’s ballot measures are more innocent, such as Amendment P and its attempt to transfer oversight of licenses bingo and raffle games to the Department of Revenue, and Amendment Q, which would establish a process for temporarily moving the seat of state government from Denver in the event of a disaster. But we hardly see the need for them. Why spend $116,000 to transfer gaming oversight to a different department when the current s
< 1288834159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : seems to have worked just fine?]]
< 1288834169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Aaand so 42% of people voted against it‽
< 1288834171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea who the Steambot Today are.
< 1288834177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: PROTEST VOET
< 1288834177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nor do I.
< 1288834206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boat
< 1288834216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamboat_Pilot_%26_Today
< 1288834230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.steamboatpilot.com/news/2010/oct/20/our-view-vote-no-state-amendments/
< 1288834293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs version control
< 1288834297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: It would be really easy for me to get whereever you are; I'm currently going to school at PPCC (Centennial campus)
< 1288834312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was easy to change the VS2010 project back into a VS2008 project
< 1288834348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Few miles on I25 away.
< 1288834360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate version control.
< 1288834362 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad to see that Colorado hates prolifers
< 1288834381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Only all that popular in El Paso County.
< 1288834384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uhh
< 1288834389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The land of fundamentalists and retards.
< 1288834400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh, and rural areas, but they can... Kinda be ignored.
< 1288834415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/11/conspiracy-theories.html Someone tried to buy Britain!
< 1288834420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The government, that is.
< 1288834437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm prolific; I'm a prolifer, one could say.
< 1288834533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA "megabucks"
< 1288834537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its chairman came to me and said, "We have this extraordinary request to assist in a major financial reconstruction. It is megabucks, but we need your help to assist us in understanding whether this business is legitimate".
< 1288834548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is megabucks.
< 1288834551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite so indeed.
< 1288834661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I strongly suspect that the Queen in Right of Britain is not for sale.
< 1288834672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Read the quote. It's... interesting.
< 1288834679 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: google maps claims it takes 18 minutes to get to PPCC. I guess that's reasonable.
< 1288834686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: [[I have had one of the biggest experiences in the laundering of terrorist money and funny money that anyone has had in the City. I have handled billions of pounds of terrorist money.]] [[My biggest terrorist client was the IRA and I am pleased to say that I managed to write off more than £1 billion of its money.]] [[I hasten to add that it is no good getting the police in, because I shall immediately call the Bank of England as my defence
< 1288834686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ss, given that it put me in to deal with these problems.]]
< 1288834695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Seems 'bout right.
< 1288834708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Might be shorter from here to PPCC, though.
< 1288834718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("here" being Woodmen and 24)
< 1288834729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Erm, from here *than* from PPCC.
< 1288834804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What the hell?
< 1288834805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I like how you're not shocked at all :P
< 1288834807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, there we go.
< 1288834845 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, that's even father
< 1288834859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Mmkay.
< 1288834869 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*farther
< 1288834881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A random shady organization actually tried to *buy the UK*.
< 1288834890 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should be doing homework instead of mispelling things on IRC
< 1288834903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It appears that this Lord is, ehm, off his rocker.
< 1288834915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is likely that he laundered money and then promptly displaced his entire collection of marbles.
< 1288834923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lord De Mauley [Government Whip]: The noble Lord is into his fifteenth minute. I wonder whether he can draw his remarks to a conclusion.
< 1288834929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like he's, well, just crazy :P
< 1288834952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One hopes.
< 1288835013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reads like the setup for the biggest advance fee fraud in history, doesn't it?"
< 1288835016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--comment
< 1288835096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_lords/newsid_9146000/9146065.stm 2h34m in
< 1288835135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[b. It may or may not speak to Lord James' sanity that his last noteworthy appearance was during a debate on immigration on 21 October, in which he referred to an obscene song about Hermann Goering trying to have sex with a kangaroo.]]
< 1288835157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2010-10-21a.903.2&s=speaker%3A13880#g923.0
< 1288835292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What's that organisation that OWNS EVERY STOCK EVER?
< 1288835449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I forget its name.
< 1288835458 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the government?
< 1288835470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Haw haw. No, the actual corporation that owns 99% of all stocks.
< 1288835479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Buying a stock without them involves actual physical stock certificates.)
< 1288835491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(99% of all stocks worldwide, that is)
< 1288835508 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ming.tv/flemming2.php/__show_article/_a000010-000923.htm ?
< 1288835550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288835556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them
< 1288835559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Clearly they'er the ones.
< 1288835577 0 :iamcal!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288835600 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288835660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation
< 1288835667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1288835675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, 99% of stocks in the US, but most stocks in other countries. Whatever.
< 1288835703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could hypothetically purchase a continent.\
< 1288835731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Instead, what they typically do is to put the stocks into the name of "Cede and Company" or "Cede & Co" or some such variation. And the broker might tell you that it is just a fictitious name, and will explain why it is really more practical to do that than to put it in your name.
< 1288835731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with that is that it appears that Cede isn't just some dummy name, but an actual corporation that DTCC controls.]]
< 1288835739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Looks like I believe in conspiracy theories now.
< 1288835764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They're not really conspiracy theories if they're very well-known facts.
< 1288835766 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1288835774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Very well-known, scary, scary facts.
< 1288835779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes.
< 1288835786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also: Very well-known by who?
< 1288835793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Every stock broker.
< 1288835804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which is... the conspiracy, more or less.
< 1288835806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Congress.
< 1288835811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The few souls who watch CSPAN.
< 1288835812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Conspiracy theories are known inside the conspiracy? Zomg :P
< 1288835852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, okay. The point is, it's not exactly a conspiracy theory if all the reasoning or evidence for it is a matter of public record that anyone could easily find if they cared to.
< 1288835858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's instead just fucking scary.
< 1288835863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hid in plain sight...
< 1288836114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Cede & Co necessarily a bad thing?
< 1288836180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They could crash the world economy in an instant.
< 1288836186 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how?
< 1288836200 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about who owns what?
< 1288836206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Several ways.
< 1288836233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "Fuck you, we're getting rid of our stocks because we like cocaine and hookers."
< 1288836237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE NEXT DAY
< 1288836238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: They could simply fire every single CEO at once, thereby causing crisis.
< 1288836240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"where go stocks"
< 1288836266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: They could dissolve every company.
< 1288836281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: They could assume control of every company.
< 1288836301 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm? how?
< 1288836323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, they are merely a trust.
< 1288836386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus pikhq was assassinated.
< 1288836473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: IIRC, they're basically not regulated at all, but, uh, pikhq knows more about this than me.
< 1288836494 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They do not own shares, they keep them in trust
< 1288836510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Uhh, they do own the shares, the "shareholder" is just the beneficiary.
< 1288836519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, really?
< 1288836520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm
< 1288836522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stocks are in the name of DTCC.
< 1288836527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "Cede & Co".
< 1288836535 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they were just a trust
< 1288836540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No -- they own the shares.
< 1288836559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because ha ha ha why would it be something REASONABLE like THAT
< 1288836822 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, I'm looking it up now
< 1288836825 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they legally own the shares
< 1288836832 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, they are not stockholders
< 1288836836 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus have no legal power
< 1288836843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1288836849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq's looked into this more than i have, i defer to him, but okay.
< 1288836867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for the companies that they are actually invested in, of course)
< 1288836921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Uuuh, how the hell does *that* work? The "stockholders" actually have no rights over those shares at all.
< 1288836956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are things even screwier than I thought?
< 1288836989 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, they do
< 1288836990 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the thing
< 1288837070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: *How*?
< 1288837085 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: because Cede legally owns the shares, but does not have the legal rights of a shareholder
< 1288837095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: *How does that work at all*.
< 1288837103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the system is screwy, but it is better than them just owning everything
< 1288837120 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: exactly how it sounds
< 1288837164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It sounds like you're proposing a spherical cube.
< 1288837188 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's very simple
< 1288837202 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like having land with an easement over the entire property
< 1288837254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking hell I hate the legal system.
< 1288837270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting that it would allow for spherical cubes.
< 1288837323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so Cede & Co. *could* just go and burn all the stocks thereby causing a global panic. But other than that their ownership is somewhat meaningless.
< 1288837326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spherical cubes? Like the TIME CUBE
< 1288837343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yeah, what would happen if they simply burned everything? ignoring the illegality (is it illegal?)
< 1288837372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It may be illegal, but the resulting hard crash of everything would make prosecution very difficult.
< 1288837382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot woot i propose we do it
< 1288837394 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm guessing they'd just print them out again
< 1288837411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're talking abot metaphorical burning
< 1288837415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abot
< 1288837416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abott
< 1288837426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flatland
< 1288837428 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds
< 1288837430 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C#
< 1288837434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, we're talking Abott metaphorical burning.
< 1288837436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, literal burning.
< 1288837443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Who, Cede & Co.?
< 1288837447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: In this scenario, they have decided that fuck people.
< 1288837487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, this is just another way that everything depends on a single person not going apeshit-crazy.
< 1288837498 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't *think* the world would end if the stock market crashed.
< 1288837506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another such way is, well. The President of the US could at a moment's notice end life.)
< 1288837515 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so it wouldn't end if the stock market disappears either
< 1288837524 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or if the stocks are burned...
< 1288837534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Yes, but the economy would crash *hard*.
< 1288837534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: remember the great depression?
< 1288837539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like 1,000 times worse than that
< 1288837541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more
< 1288837542 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no :p
< 1288837554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: All the money would be gone.
< 1288837556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think if the stock market crashed an awful lot of people would die.
< 1288837559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Yes, all of it.
< 1288837559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1288837562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally, crashed completely
< 1288837564 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, um
< 1288837565 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288837578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't single-celled life still live?
< 1288837578 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: whatever, people start bartering
< 1288837588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least some of it?
< 1288837602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs Sgeo to death
< 1288837603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Radiodurans would.
< 1288837618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: You have a terribly naïve view of the world :P
< 1288837625 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288837634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Okay, so we go back several millenia.
< 1288837636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can survive vacuu,? o.O
< 1288837637 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YES. it's your job to fix it
< 1288837638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: That's "wonderful".
< 1288837646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, Radiodurans is fucking nuts.
< 1288837655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stock market crashing would not end society
< 1288837656 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radiodurans? You mean "lots of nukes fly" scenario?
< 1288837662 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be Very Very Very Very Bad though
< 1288837666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: RAPE AND DESPAIR
< 1288837670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, radiodurans is a bacterium
< 1288837674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The entire US stockpile.
< 1288837674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it would end *western* society
< 1288837675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacteria?
< 1288837680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ilari, radiodurans is a bacterium
< 1288837681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORLY
< 1288837699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bacterium can also refer to a single species of bacteria.
< 1288837700 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no. we are retarded and would rebuild it worse
< 1288837709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Ilari didn't know what it was and didn't Google
< 1288837725 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know. And it takes A LOT of radiation to kill it (that's where it got its name).
< 1288837751 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: suppose everyone suddenly just burned all the money and started doing things out of habit. would life go on as before?
< 1288837759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yup. With nukes flying, radiodurans would be just fine.
< 1288837777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that evolve?
< 1288837779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: You are ignorant of macroëconomics.
< 1288837809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: oh yeah 'cuz everyone would do that.
< 1288837820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects Mathnerd314 is the naïve variety of anarchist
< 1288837823 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macroeconomics is scary
< 1288837835 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't there also some molds that use ionizing radiation as energy source (found inside the infamous Chernobyl 4 reactor)?
< 1288837837 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes; I've done math but not econ
< 1288837842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yeah.
< 1288837853 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: go take an econ course or two
< 1288837876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yes
< 1288837878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: which is awesome
< 1288837889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: They use melanin. :)
< 1288837900 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nation States characterizes me as "Left-Leaning College State" http://www.nationstates.net/nation=asdjeklcdh
< 1288837913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nationstates has nothing to do with actual political preferences ZOMG
< 1288837933 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I've been doing it according to my naive views
< 1288837941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NationStates is also naïve :P
< 1288837944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a game.
< 1288837956 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok...
< 1288837958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: This is a bit like using a gossip magazine quiz as an indicator.
< 1288837958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Following new legislation in FlagAsdjeklcdh, all forms of advertising are banned."
< 1288837960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :niiiice
< 1288837962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duct tape!
< 1288837978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[pirate radio station] "THE NEW IPAD FROM APP[FZZZZZZZZZZZZZRKWRKWRKWKTEIOAJDIOJRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR]"
< 1288837984 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't bring people to Sine?
< 1288837988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Following new legislation in FlagAsdjeklcdh, the police have been reduced to using duct tape instead of handcuffs following further cutbacks.
< 1288838006 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I never said I made sane decisions :p
< 1288838008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Following new legislation in FlagAsdjeklcdh, long arduous trials are held for the most trivial of offences." :D
< 1288838027 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Active Worlds
< 1288838035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION promptly gets arrested
< 1288838036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you and all zero other people
< 1288838043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION breaks free from his duct tape
< 1288838050 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: obviously. I'm trying to show how little I know
< 1288838115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Just FYI: currency actually came into existence soley because barter sucks.
< 1288838126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[LOGREADING ME] play nationstates since you can't resist, nation is called Battletoadia
< 1288838132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(developing from using precious metals for barter in lieu of anything actually useful.)
< 1288838139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because barter sucks.)
< 1288838187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question
< 1288838195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the History/Government Style fields change anything?
< 1288838196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314?
< 1288838238 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wikipedia has a good description of how it works - basically, nothing matters; they're just indicators
< 1288838258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: can you change government style?
< 1288838260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows what i'll become
< 1288838331 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1288838375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314 was then promptly shot by the CIA
< 1288838389 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, you just make decisions every day or so
< 1288838409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: yes but the actual Government Style field
< 1288838412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have played before, just don't recall it
< 1288838414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the registration page
< 1288838421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sensible / Liberal / Conservative / etc.
< 1288838468 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: read wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Government:_NationStates
< 1288838548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: does not answer my question :P
< 1288838554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what the government description things are
< 1288838560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about the actual text box
< 1288838563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the signup page
< 1288838573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does war exist now?
< 1288838578 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no
< 1288838581 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no
< 1288838592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grah
< 1288838595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So where's the fun
< 1288838598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 questions a da
< 1288838599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :day
< 1288838601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grah
< 1288838616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo has huge psychological issues with answering
< 1288838622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: no what?
< 1288838634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean... that's it, from what I recall
< 1288838642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1288838647 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I recall using the wirr instead of a currency
< 1288838676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name the currency, name the nation, choose a location
< 1288838681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer 5 questions a day
< 1288838684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And.. that's it
< 1288838687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the whole thing
< 1288838693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless more was added/
< 1288838723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nationstates.net/nation=sgeo
< 1288838731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was .... from many, many, years ago
< 1288838797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I bring regards from Region Inc I'd like to ask for you to join our region where YOU have a chance to take part in the government and more.]]
< 1288838800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I JUST SIGNED UP MORON
< 1288838812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A loose coalition of sartorially-challenged individuals known as "Let It All Hang Out" has called on the government to relax public nudity laws.
< 1288838812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1288838861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nationstates.net/nation=battletoadia
< 1288838863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEED MOAR QUESTIONS
< 1288838885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets to two per day.
< 1288838894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& with that, adieu.
< 1288838895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1288838908 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I make it illegal to make racist remarks? What did I do to freedom of speech o.O?
< 1288838947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You raped it, much like Glenn Beck.
< 1288838953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2710 days ago
< 1288838972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's when I signed this nation up
< 1288838998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides not to tamper with it
< 1288839091 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288839255 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: have you heard of the wirr?
< 1288839420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1288839508 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to do with "individual mutualism"
< 1288839742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Judicial activism". Stupidest god damned term ever.
< 1288839794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US is common law, people. Judges have the power and the obligation to make law. Deal with it.
< 1288840149 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288840311 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1288841207 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how did it get so quiet after elliott left?
< 1288841427 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: c'mon, we're in the same timezone. you can't be asleep *this* early
< 1288841430 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that question answered itself.
< 1288841461 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it did. :-/
< 1288841567 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288841725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I'm procrastinating on homework ATM.
< 1288841725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite skillfully, for that matter.
< 1288841770 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? that's what I'm doing too! (less adeptly of course)
< 1288842041 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: when is your homework due? mine is due tomorrow.
< 1288842128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomorrow as well.
< 1288842237 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is it math homework?
< 1288842270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1288842285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will probably go into automatic-integration-mode in a few minutes.
< 1288842452 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks ppcc course list
< 1288842613 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is their course listing an 8 MB pdf with hundreds of crappy pictures...?
< 1288842624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the smart people leave after two years.
< 1288842635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As do the dumb people.
< 1288842641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaving them with complete and utter morons.
< 1288842714 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: calc 3?
< 1288842721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1288842741 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, totally took that last semester :p
< 1288842790 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at UCCS)
< 1288842841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I'm a cheap bastard.
< 1288842842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288842914 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uccs even looks closer...
< 1288842966 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but ppcc doesn't offer the course I'm taking now, namely Modern Analysis
< 1288843013 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess I get shielded from price differences because D20 is kind enough to pay my tuition
< 1288843061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D20?
< 1288843103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, UCCS and PPCC?
< 1288843118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I know of is the PPCA
< 1288843138 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "Modern" analysis?
< 1288843138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (public school) District 20; University of Colorado, Colorado Springs; and Pikes Peak Community College.
< 1288843140 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that?
< 1288843148 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, thanks
< 1288843171 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: pikhq and I happen to live within ~25 miles of each other
< 1288843177 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1288843182 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much is that in km?
< 1288843209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~50km
< 1288843216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong
< 1288843219 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like 40
< 1288843244 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're in math? :P
< 1288843246 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why ask if you know the answer?
< 1288843248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I use the approximation of 2km/mile for ballpark figures like that.
< 1288843267 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: because I want to see if you know
< 1288843289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I know that it's actually 1.609344 kilometers per mile precisely, but it doesn't fucking matter for ballpark estimates like that.
< 1288843295 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't do calc 3 for a year
< 1288843298 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/
< 1288843299 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: google gives miles, so that's what I gave. tell me when the US has a bill to switch to metric.
< 1288843306 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: old
< 1288843318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it'll probably be a referendum
< 1288843323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I don't have a time machine to go back and tell you before your birth.
< 1288843350 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that has a decent chance of getting passed
< 1288843371 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it 4 am UTC yet?
< 1288843444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Mendenhall Order. 1893. Metric has been official ever since.
< 1288843500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Also, Metric Conversion Act of 1975.
< 1288843534 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bash.org/?926627
< 1288843536 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnight
< 1288843764 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok, something that mandates use of the metric system
< 1288843828 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: particularly for signage
< 1288843833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Until '98, a switch to metric for roads was planned to happen in 2000.
< 1288843867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is we *keep fucking stopping it*.
< 1288843919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, industry has started to beg for metrication.
< 1288843933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which might make it actually happen.
< 1288843962 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay :-)
< 1288843982 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, tell me when I get to vote / sign the petition / etc.
< 1288844077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the military is exclusively metric.
< 1288844319 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says *illegal drugs* are measured in metric
< 1288844332 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet Hitler used the metric system too!
< 1288844512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, he did.
< 1288844522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Germany went metric in 1872.
< 1288844633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear 1010 Wins: Please don't link to cybersquatted domains
< 1288844684 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what about rel=nofollow,noindex?
< 1288844696 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean an actual link
< 1288844704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They mentioned something in a story
< 1288844711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/11/03/geo-tagging-the-dangers-of-posting-pictures-online/
< 1288844720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The message was from Larry Pesce, the founder of icanstalkyou.com but its not what you think."
< 1288844729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what? icanstalkyou.com is cybersquatted
< 1288845114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fuck. I can't find my textbook.
< 1288845137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there.
< 1288845189 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the monster group scares me
< 1288845196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monster group?
< 1288845202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we bringing that rule back/
< 1288845233 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: typosquatting, really, since http://icanstalku.com/ is real
< 1288846035 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, the monster group
< 1288846036 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... If server certificate exceeds about 4kB, it'll overflow TCP window, leading to performance problems....
< 1288846036 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a group
< 1288846697 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting question: has the president ever been ill?
< 1288846709 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288846717 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when?
< 1288846736 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of your presidents died from health problems
< 1288846742 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lurn istry thx
< 1288846770 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Obama might have been a germophobe and never gotten sick
< 1288846855 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, the question was even in the news: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/27/AR2009042703597.html
< 1288846912 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: can't you see that I was asking about Obama?
< 1288847904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nomics can have civil wars?
< 1288847913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've fantasized about Agora havng a civil war
< 1288847914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But..
< 1288847958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, that page is confusing
< 1288848254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is Nano programming language
< 1288848369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's supposedly inspired by Vala and Scala
< 1288848417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it should be named Nala.
< 1288848417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Nanala.
< 1288849768 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.11/20101012113537]
< 1288850768 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288850780 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol!
< 1288851522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288854271 0 :balharius!~rareaapje@s5591646e.adsl.wanadoo.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288854273 0 :balharius!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello DCC SEND "string" 0 0 0
< 1288854490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... what a strange greeting
< 1288854539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, I have to leave for university now
< 1288854987 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-28.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288854988 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288855005 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-28.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288855684 0 :balharius!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :K-Lined
< 1288856797 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288857599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1288857600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288863741 0 :ais523!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288863833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523_
< 1288863863 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288864073 0 :sbszulu!~dundubala@41.14.248.141 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288865994 0 :sbszulu!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288870692 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288872292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1288873428 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-196.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288873506 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288874061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288874137 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288874760 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1288874912 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288876302 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288876810 0 :atrapado!~ro@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288878812 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288879352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm would a bignum brainfuck without - be TC?
< 1288879442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or effectively, a 1-bit BF with "set bit" but no "clear bit"?
< 1288879445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think quite possibly
< 1288879511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, are you sure that is equivalent?
< 1288879801 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288879813 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288879871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't see any easy way to show that answering one of those questions would answer the other. For a start, with an infinite tape of bignums you would have a larger state than with an infinite tape of single bits, unless I completely mixed up something.
< 1288879942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the states for the bignum case would be uncountable, while for the bit case they would be countable, no?
< 1288882326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: given that [] is the only command that cares about the value of a number, no values above 1 could be distinguished
< 1288882343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, something to ponder: is there a number exactly equal to the number of Google results for that number?
< 1288882518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:
< 1288882520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:/share/cog/corpora/google_ngram/dvd1/data/1gms$ zcat vocab.gz | egrep '^([0-9][0-9]*) \1$'
< 1288882520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15491 15491
< 1288882564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so that's not exactly "google results", but in their "one trillion words from the internet" database, the number 15491 occurs 15491 times (or in 15491 documents, I forget the exact definition).
< 1288882628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual google results for 15491 are 2,300,000, though; the google 1T ngram corpus is a very small part of the internet indeed.
< 1288882667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is the only number there that matches.)
< 1288882853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288882926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well now, that's rude!
< 1288884000 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1288884091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, presumably his connection broke?
< 1288884130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was a joke about a remote host being rude
< 1288884139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, it must be some form of conscientious discrimination. I'll sue.
< 1288884146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1288884154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, he lives in UK not US
< 1288884221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Then I won't sue. What's the UK equivalent? Maim?
< 1288884246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1288884290 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1288884325 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, know any really good init system? upstart has a nice syntax for config files and does the right thing when it comes to supervising. But due to being event based rather than dependency based it tends to start more than it should. Just because foo is up doesn't mean everything depending on foo should start.
< 1288884369 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288884373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, no; I haven't even compared the well-known ones.
< 1288884376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :systemd seems to get the dependency stuff right, and possibly also supervising. But config files are based on .ini like syntax... Which is quite nasty for this purpose..
< 1288884434 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found any with XML configs yet?-)
< 1288884438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :systemd also does deps inetd style when possible, creating sockets first and making things trying to connect to them trigger starting that thing (or block until it is up if it is already starting)
< 1288884444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems solaris uses that
< 1288884463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, wouldn't be too surprised. It's an Enterprise System, after all.
< 1288884472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm looking for one that would work on linux and even a quick glance at it indicates it is very specific to solaris
< 1288884481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also license is... the usual weird one
< 1288884517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and systemd seems to have it's roots in the fedora/freedesktop.org caps. Which explains the config syntax at least...
< 1288884561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess OS X's launchd has configuration that is apple-property-list and therefore indirectly XML-based, sort-of.
< 1288884582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm idea: use make -C /etc/init -j boot or such
< 1288884606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a vague notion I've heard of a make-based init system, but maybe that was a dream or something.
< 1288884612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, launchd does a lot of the actual dependency stuff and so on the right way.
< 1288884633 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288884668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Ubuntu Linux distribution considered using launchd in 2006. However, launchd was rejected as an option because it was released under the Apple Public Source License – which at the time was described as an "inescapable licence problem".[4]"
< 1288884676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so they've even considered that. One wonders how seriously.
< 1288884678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main issue with a make based one seems to be that you have to ensure that starting a daemon actually creates a file and that if a daemon dies the file actually gets removed. Even if it dies due to crashing or such
< 1288884695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lack of supervisor
< 1288884708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make it as bad as sysvinit
< 1288884769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upstart syntax + systemd features seems like the perfect dream
< 1288884772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- minimyth [a MythTV-centred distribution] is now defaulting to using a make based init system rather than an sh based init system --"
< 1288884792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somehow read that as "MythBusters-centered"
< 1288884794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1288884807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... explodes every week?
< 1288884818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1288884845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, neither sh-based one nor make-based one provides the critical supervising feature
< 1288885021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly necessarily for service-supervision to be wed with init, but as you wish.
< 1288885052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :systemd seems to move a lot of stuff from shell scripts into C and then into systemd itself directly
< 1288885055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds problematic
< 1288885092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what sort of stuff yet. But it could very well be stuff that only fits well into a redhatish distro.
< 1288885239 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1288885401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also means recompiling init just to change that stuff
< 1288885997 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/M39RA.png
< 1288886088 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: make based init system? wtf?
< 1288886095 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that even work?
< 1288886164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know, make can run programs and all. Anyway, that was just from a forum posting. Based on the rest, I'd have to say "not very well" about how it works.
< 1288886201 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about "wrong tool for the job" lol
< 1288886257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does sort-of handle dependencies for you.
< 1288886265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps not a very good fit, still.
< 1288886585 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288886947 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1288887126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, binaries produced by ghc tends to be large.... Otherwise haskell would be a nice language to write an init system in
< 1288887241 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1288887327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why what
< 1288887743 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288887786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1288887812 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'
< 1288887815 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1288887827 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'
< 1288887831 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1288887831 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1288887971 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288888023 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288888033 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288890110 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288890352 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288890373 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288891321 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288891635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody please tell me Debian's netinstall thing supports WPA networks.
< 1288892266 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288892531 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288892662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288892733 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288892785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288892798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss anything?
< 1288892826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Don't you know your own mind best?
< 1288892843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, OK, you know about networks and stuff.
< 1288892850 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288892858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Debian's netinst support WPA networks?
< 1288892879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, while I do know a bit more than I want to about networks, I don't know about debian netinstall
< 1288892885 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's never used netinst for wireless, not to mention WPA :P
< 1288892886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, check if it has wpa_supplicant?
< 1288892912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah for installs I just plug in the ethernet cable
< 1288893143 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1288893590 0 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-135-12.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288893644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMBC got hacked, and badly.
< 1288893715 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1288893901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh?
< 1288893909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you mean the comic?
< 1288893974 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1288894008 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theweinerworks.com/?p=86 has an account of it.
< 1288894053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, err, just reading a few lines in. They got hacked and *didn't* do a complete reinstall?
< 1288894055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How stupid
< 1288894103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I look like one acquainted with security?
< 1288894108 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288894119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm?
< 1288894136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be stupid; it might not be.
< 1288894139 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1288894155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as that blog post shows, it was stupid
< 1288894232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288894325 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288894347 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288895181 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288895298 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you ever used an xor linked list?
< 1288895340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1288895348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have asked me that before
< 1288895354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I doubt that
< 1288895363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you have
< 1288895380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unless it was several years ago, in which case: "do you expect me to remember that?"
< 1288895388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a year ago at the most
< 1288895389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess
< 1288895390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever
< 1288895393 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1288895393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know
< 1288895397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i haven't, why?
< 1288895448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I'm trying to figure out if they have completely died out in modern times.
< 1288895463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus my next question is: have you ever seen an xor linked list used?
< 1288895467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1288895476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor linked list = linked list where every adjacent pair of nodes has a link in one direction, but not the other
< 1288895483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're lucky, it can be pretty useful
< 1288895488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1288895490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, heh
< 1288895497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more complex code, memory is cheap, takes more cpu time, doesn't work with GC, doesn't work with debuggers
< 1288895508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true
< 1288895529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about the xor swap trick? Used/seen it?
< 1288895533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no change in algorithmic complexity
< 1288895533 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect "no" here too
< 1288895541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has seen that
< 1288895549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: seen it, probably; used it, no
< 1288895559 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh in a prog
< 1288895560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like languages that let me say "a, b = b,a " :P
< 1288895562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, seen used in a context that wasn't about demonstrating the method I meant
< 1288895562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*b, a"
< 1288895571 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1288895616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed.
< 1288895626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, python does, doesn't it?
< 1288895633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc
< 1288895637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. i dislike python for different reasons entirely :)
< 1288895648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm do you need a tuple to do it in python or?
< 1288895665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the a, b on the left isn't a tuple, it's syntax
< 1288895670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288895673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1288895673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO
< 1288895676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the b, a on the right is a tuple
< 1288895680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1288895681 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no pattern matching or anything
< 1288895681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, b, c, d = x
< 1288895684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unpacks the tuple x
< 1288895687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into a b c and d
< 1288895691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a, b = b, a
< 1288895693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equiv to
< 1288895695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, b = (b,a)
< 1288895698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*b, a
< 1288895701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can figure out the rest
< 1288895725 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, (b, c) = 5, get_my_pair()
< 1288895738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that syntax on the lhs side always makes me think of erlang and haskell. Because it reminds me of pattern matching.
< 1288895768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I wonder why I'm using python instead of one of them
< 1288896042 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-173-196-169.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288896188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, know any good /sbin/init implementation? upstart is good except for it's event based nature. systemd gets most stuff except the config file syntax right, though it is very geared towards fedora-like distros.
< 1288896201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://smarden.org/runit/
< 1288896215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or http://code.dogmap.org/svscan-1/
< 1288896221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288896246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it do the "create sockets, start stuff on demand when they try to connect" kind of thing that systemd does?
< 1288896251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or http://www.fefe.de/minit/ if you don't mind fefe software :P
< 1288896258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uhh, that's what inetd is for.
< 1288896263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of whatever flavour)
< 1288896275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, um. Not exactly. Not when used the rather cleaver way when systemd does
< 1288896282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which clever way is that
< 1288896295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this page explains it better than I could: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html
< 1288896313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 0pointer.de/blog = the PulseAudio developer
< 1288896315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is a bit long, but very interesting and might be useful to you in your plans for new OS/distro
< 1288896320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := idiot
< 1288896339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I know, but it doesn't seem to idiotic in this case
< 1288896339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lennart Poettering)
< 1288896348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k i'll turn on my moron filter
< 1288896366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: let me guess first -- is it so that if you, like, run startx
< 1288896369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it looks for the x socket
< 1288896371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x gets magically started?
< 1288896388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, could be, but not primary that.
< 1288896429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Most current systems that try to parallelize boot-up still synchronize the start-up of the various daemons involved: since Avahi needs D-Bus, D-Bus is started first, and only when D-Bus signals that it is ready, Avahi is started too."
< 1288896434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this... scares me slightly, that this is a "bad thing"
< 1288896442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's subvert dependencies for slightly fasterness!
< 1288896463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it lets you do stuff like start dbus at the same time as things that depend on dbus. And things that depend on dbus are not likely to be the very first thing they open. They probably read configs first and so on
< 1288896471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you wait pointlessly
< 1288896475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*probably*
< 1288896493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but if it isn't then no harm done, the reading on the socket would just block
< 1288896514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like when inetd is still starting the service, the thing blocks for a short time
< 1288896532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, systemd fails however because 1) idiotic config syntax (it is based on the .desktop file syntax...), 2) too geared towards fedora
< 1288896560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :systemd is in opensuse now. so there's that
< 1288896581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, i don't know -- systemd sounds like a rather large program.
< 1288896584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, still it would be a hard fit out of box on debian for exampel I think
< 1288896584 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO different from Fedora :P
< 1288896595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while concurrent startup is good and starting up stuff you don't need is bad
< 1288896603 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the idea about sockets used that way seems to be from launchd btw. And os x starts fearsomely fast.
< 1288896607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it gets too fancy you're just insanely microöptimising
< 1288896613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, and that is one of the issues with upstart
< 1288896624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if the systemd authors ever thought "You know what, Avahi takes *too long* to start up. I have to start up *DBUS*!! I must rewrite init to make it faster."
< 1288896624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, systemd is overengineered
< 1288896636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OS X's startup times are greatly underexaggerated :-)
< 1288896646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a typical OS X desktop system takes like 20, 30s to start up fully
< 1288896656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes even 40s
< 1288896659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to some extent. But you can interact with it before that in my experience
< 1288896672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, spotlight would be a bit slow and so on
< 1288896673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of that time is spent in the apple-logo-and-spinner in my experience
< 1288896678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't the fastest machine, but whatever :)
< 1288896691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2.1 ghz first-generation core 2 duo, either 1 or 2 gigs of ram depending on when i measured it)
< 1288896694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, My experience is that the time is spent after login in the bg
< 1288896741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, upstart does have that issue pointed out in the linked to page above
< 1288896777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which issue? i'm trying to read it but it's bloody long and it could be a lot shorter
< 1288896781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i just woke up
< 1288896796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't you just get home from school?
< 1288896825 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see the section "On Upstart"
< 1288896831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sleep schedule is beyond the ken of mere mortals
< 1288896842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including me
< 1288896845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION /On Upstart
< 1288896854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so... what do the teachers in school think about you then?
< 1288896875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone in the universe even think? is THINKING real?
< 1288896885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just waking up is worse than sleep deprivation
< 1288896886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving on,
< 1288896897 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1288896925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, easy to a morning person! I wish I was one...
< 1288896957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or in other words, instead of having a clear goal and only doing the things it really needs to do to reach the goal, it does one step, and then after finishing it, it does all steps that possibly could follow it." this either makes no sense, or upstart is crazy
< 1288897039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I looked at upstart and ubuntu take great care to avoid doing just that. Upstart files would certainly be shorter expressed with a dependency system instead of an event one.
< 1288897047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not?
< 1288897050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1288897052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's stupid.
< 1288897072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, apart from that upstart is very nice however
< 1288897081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is, to my eyes, a major flaw
< 1288897086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deal-braker imo
< 1288897111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it appears that my opinions on init systems are in a bit of flux right now
< 1288897133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my package management opinions appear to have decided on "slackware's is *almost* complex enough" after i realised how hard writing a mega package manager would be
< 1288897166 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a better idea that would keep the simplicity in upstart /sbin/init might be to have dependency syntax in the files and then have a separate program that generated the events from that. You could take advantage of that "caching" by putting it in one file (fewer disk access, and since the files are small, fewer read blocks) as well.
< 1288897182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I like the nix package manager btw
< 1288897199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do i, so do i, but have you seen the /nix directory? i mean wow complexity man.
< 1288897201 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando
< 1288897212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I haven't, what is it for?
< 1288897217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything
< 1288897223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nix/store/packagename-LONGHASH/ is their root
< 1288897224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like
< 1288897229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's like 500 of them
< 1288897233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so many symlinks from the normal tree to them
< 1288897237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and make -C /etc/init -j boot would seem perfect except that it doesn't provide the crucial supervising bit. And that still doesn't do the socket-masquerading and so on...
< 1288897238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i just get scared.
< 1288897251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "-j boot"
< 1288897252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1288897255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't -j parallel
< 1288897257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes
< 1288897260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and boot is a target
< 1288897266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have shutdown as another target
< 1288897269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: since when does -j not require an argument? :)
< 1288897301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since the day they made -j without argument mean "no limit"
< 1288897311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was not aware
< 1288897312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which was before I started using make
< 1288897318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i am not sure that is a good idea
< 1288897322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have infinite cores: )
< 1288897323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* :)
< 1288897323 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a great way to make your computer shit itself.
< 1288897329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and you need to somehow delete target files if a daemon dies unexpectedly
< 1288897338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just make every target phony?
< 1288897351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or?
< 1288897374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, seems a bit messy, would mean you have to have logic to avoid dual starting in some other way
< 1288897392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would defeat much of the point and also make the dependency stuff not actually work as expected
< 1288897405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian tells me that it's using "makefile-style [concurrent? i forget] init" every time i start it up :)
< 1288897431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wrt -j: booting is not a CPU bound task most of the time, IO bound is quite common
< 1288897434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a mix
< 1288897442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine :P
< 1288897446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes waiting for, say, a reply from a dhcp server
< 1288897468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with two such tasks and -j2 you would stall stuff for no good reason
< 1288897487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember when /sbin/init was a shell script mumble fnumble
< 1288897519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and actually -j doesn't hurt a lot. Context switches aren't that important to performance. But with building software you would end up exhausting memory on most systems.
< 1288897526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would not be likely at boot
< 1288897531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-j is optimal with bfs :P
< 1288897556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gnash is now playing youtube vidyos!!
< 1288897558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only for building software or other CPU bound tasks.
< 1288897558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :choppily
< 1288897586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and -j would be a tiny bit slower with CPU bound but not significantly so
< 1288897615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mr. McCane, you are... a douchebag. That's right, a *douchebag*." -- Hikaru Sulu
< 1288897677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, defining characteristics for compiling that are not defining for booting: CPU bound *and* memory intensive. Very little IO bound usually.
< 1288897684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linking can be IO bound sometimes
< 1288897704 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288897721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that quote: what?
< 1288897732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UACK93xF-FE
< 1288897743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which george takei is badass
< 1288897871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/git/git git git git git git git git
< 1288897925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that movie, is it just me or is it mono on one ear?
< 1288897940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't tell, laptop speakers, but it does seem so
< 1288897965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I use headphones and it makes it quite hard to hear when you only hear it on one ear
< 1288897977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use mplayer or something to duplicate the channel :P
< 1288898043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAY GUYS I FOUND A TUTORIAL ON HASKELL ZIPPERS
< 1288898045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGEO WILL BE SO HAPPY
< 1288898046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://learnyouahaskell.com/zippers
< 1288898081 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if only we all weren't fighting so hard to assure Sgeo's unhappiness.
< 1288898090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm sadly this does not exist: https://github.com/git/git/git (also wtf at that 404 image)
< 1288898108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's octocat.
< 1288898110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(looks like a cross between an octopus and hello kitty)
< 1288898113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hm3E2cGQE4
< 1288898119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, I did indeed say wtf about it
< 1288898174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: We make sure to kill Sgeo every day
< 1288898192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Now if only we all weren't fighting so hard to assure Sgeo's unhappiness. <-- what?
< 1288898224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh shoot, now Vorpal's found out people are working to assure others' unhappiness, and soon enough he'll realize we're working to ensure his unhappiness too.
< 1288898239 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MEAN, UH, NOTHING, HI!
< 1288898241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's kill them both.
< 1288898269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yes I know you are all douchbags.
< 1288898288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, it doesn't work.
< 1288898288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail
< 1288898304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never put a douch in a bag.
< 1288898311 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh good point.
< 1288898318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whooooooooooooosh
< 1288898330 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5ce98cba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.233.140.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288898341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how is that a whoooosh?
< 1288898347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, Debian finished installing.
< 1288898350 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many of your anecdotes start with "So I was eating this baby when ..."
< 1288898357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Try goggling "douch".
< 1288898360 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know perfectly well it is probably a sexual joke
< 1288898363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1288898365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE STUPID
< 1288898366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First point of order: make the font nice.
< 1288898378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Font preferences, set hinting to Slight.
< 1288898378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1288898382 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god more fontophiles nooooooooooooooo
< 1288898387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Avoid subpixel rendering; without Ubuntu's patches, it has obvious colour fringing.
< 1288898396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Jesus christ it lasted four lines.
< 1288898397 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I did notice my typo yes when you replied and decided to play along
< 1288898411 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You think I'm the messiah???
< 1288898411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Even *Vorpal* has an opinion on what text hinting he likes, STFU
< 1288898422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why, is nice subpixel rendering a dark secret known only to Canonical.
< 1288898437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, it's just that Debian are overly-cautious and Canonical don't care about US patents.
< 1288898441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're expired now but whatever.
< 1288898462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-subpixel slight hinting looks fine, anyway, just takes a minute or two to adjust to.
< 1288898488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a slow, horrible realisation that he has no idea where the font preferences are.
< 1288898517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: System -> Preferences -> Appearance -> Fonts -> Details...
< 1288898540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, didn't notice the details thing.
< 1288898606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, the subpixel rendering looks fine for me, but I'm probably just blind.
< 1288898726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, at least on ubuntu firefox ignores that. You need to use ~/.fonts.conf for it
< 1288898755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1288898757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1288898762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No it doesn't.
< 1288898767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to, ages ago.
< 1288898779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Trust me, it can be very obvious when it wants to be :P
< 1288898796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other things: what do I add to sudoers to let me use sudo?
< 1288898800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it still does on lucid iirc but now the defaults are what you want.
< 1288898803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't notice it
< 1288898809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Works on Debian.
< 1288898815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You don't.
< 1288898824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, perhaps.
< 1288898832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I add myself to the sudo group?
< 1288898837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: System -> Administration -> Users and Groups -> Manage Groups
< 1288898846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add yourself to sudo.
< 1288898870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: After that, I can tell you how to get the graphical tools using sudo as well and disable the root account password like Ubuntu; it's non-trivial.
< 1288898890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But basically:
< 1288898893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gconftool --type bool --set /apps/gksu/sudo-mode true
< 1288898904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp /etc/polkit-1/localauthority.conf.d/50-localauthority.conf /etc/polkit-1/localauthority.conf.d/90-customauthority.conf
< 1288898915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edit /etc/polkit-1/localauthority.conf.d/90-customauthority.conf and s/unix-user:0/unix-group:sudo/.
< 1288898917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Save.
< 1288898921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo passwd -d root
< 1288898922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo passwd -l root
< 1288898923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reboot.
< 1288898927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ta-daaaaaaaaaaaa
< 1288898941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: You need to log out and in again after adding yourself to the sudo group.
< 1288899006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do the second and third commands do?
< 1288899032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Uhh, please quote them.
< 1288899037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unclear waht constitutes a command there :P
< 1288899042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what
< 1288899077 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cp /etc/polkit... and, (OK, it's not a command), to edit /etc/polkit...
< 1288899111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That configures PolicyKit, which is like graphical sudo but ~capabilities~ and stuff.
< 1288899132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You know how in Ubuntu when you used Software Centre it prompted for your password, but not with the usual dim-screen-and-ask-for-password box?
< 1288899142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's PolicyKit. In Debian it would ask for root's password instead. My change fixes that.
< 1288899148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I see.
< 1288899235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could be a bit simpler to set up but it isn't :)
< 1288899241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else is smooth.
< 1288899269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: By the way, my recommended mirror is the Swedish kernel.org mirror.
< 1288899269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, policykit seems horribly overengineered
< 1288899275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirrors.se.kernel.org
< 1288899281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it is, but you also don't have a choice :)
< 1288899288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sad
< 1288899297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually, why do I need it?
< 1288899301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's yet another one of the SELinux/AppArmour sillinesses, wherein people try and make Unix a modern OS and fail horribly.
< 1288899305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because shit uses it :P
< 1288899321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it seems installed on arch too. And that doesn't use selinux or apparmour
< 1288899332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You installed Gnome or something.
< 1288899337 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I do use gnome yes
< 1288899338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNOME depends on PolicyKit I think.
< 1288899342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1288899342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not gdm or such hm
< 1288899353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System -> Administration -> Users and Groups -> try and change something.
< 1288899359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll probably pop up a PolicyKit authorisation window.
< 1288899361 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288899376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Account type's Change... button is a sure-fire authentication dialogue.
< 1288899414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually nothing at all happens there
< 1288899425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think policykit is actually configured and running
< 1288899431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it's Arch. You don't expect them to test how dependencies fit together, do you?
< 1288899433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: policykit is not a daemon
< 1288899437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288899438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1288899448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like such a freetard. Every program on my system is totally Free! I can't install non-Free software without enabling a clearly-labelled repository! I even have freaking Gnash installed!
< 1288899456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it could matter that I don't use gdm or such, I use startx
< 1288899463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1288899466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to do with that
< 1288899492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I know that usb devices won't automount by default on here unless I use gdm
< 1288899497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame consolekit
< 1288899517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame international jewry.
< 1288899524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THEN THEY'RE THE SOURCE OF ALL THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS
< 1288899526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That and Ubuntu.
< 1288899543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, clarification: I blame consolekit because I'm 99% sure it is the cause :P
< 1288899572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not Jewish are you? *suspiciou
< 1288899575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suspicious glare*
< 1288899581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288899599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew lol henry ford
< 1288899748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1288899837 0 :n1c0b!~n1c0b@g115218.upc-g.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288899851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I fear GNOME 3.
< 1288899865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GNOME Shell, no thanks. The question is, is the GNOME Panel still going to be maintained?
< 1288899868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not... FORK TIME
< 1288899888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm how does gnome 3 look?
< 1288899888 0 :n1c0b!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288899900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and gnome shell? is that the terminal?
< 1288899904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just like GNOME 2 except... http://linux.softpedia.com/screenshots/GNOME-Shell_3.png
< 1288899912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's what happens when you put your mouse in the top-left hand corner.
< 1288899919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The panel, ordinarily, looks just like the bit above.
< 1288899929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That replaces all the menus, etc.
< 1288899931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wtf
< 1288899933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288899940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when will this be released?
< 1288899946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm going to have to switch to xfce
< 1288899951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GNOME 3, so 2011.
< 1288899953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who knows for how long that will last
< 1288899955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, gnome-panel will still be available.
< 1288899962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm 99.99999% sure of that.
< 1288899974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it possible to make it look exactly like gnome 2 with clearlooks?
< 1288899977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The question is in the next few releases, if they try and stop maintaining it...
< 1288899986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uhh, that *is* exactly GNOME 2 except with gnome-shell instead of gnome-panel.
< 1288900002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://vimeo.com/13797705 Here's GNOME Shell "in action".
< 1288900009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No flash yada yada not my problem blada blada)
< 1288900022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GrUtIEK1sk youtube version
< 1288900043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, it's actually a mockup. But whatever.)
< 1288900066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, and Ubuntu isn't going to use it.
< 1288900084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They're going to make their netbook interface Unity work on desktops too and use thati nstead.
< 1288900109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that instead.
< 1288900131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with an option to not use it?
< 1288900132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or?
< 1288900139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And use what instead?
< 1288900146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh my god
< 1288900151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when is this going to happen?
< 1288900165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: And use what instead?
< 1288900170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: When is what going to happen?
< 1288900178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, something that works like gnome 2
< 1288900188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when are they going to switch to that "unity" interface
< 1288900191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All your sentences are ambiguous.
< 1288900197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"with an option to not use it" -- talking about what
< 1288900210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh, when GNOME Shell comes out. Because they don't like it.
< 1288900214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, option not to use it = not use the netbook interface, I mean traditional gnome
< 1288900219 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the traditional panel
< 1288900220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1288900234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.canonical.com/files/masthead/ubuntu-light/light.jpg this is what it looks like
< 1288900246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aaaargh
< 1288900260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's actually funny how your only arguments about a terrible interface (GNOME Shell) are based on your terrible neural inability to handle the change of even a single pixel.
< 1288900287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually I do think xfce looks nice and that doesn't look exactly like gnome
< 1288900291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By funny I mean that I was previously unaware that someone who thinks the right thing could somehow be more wrong than someone who thinks the wrong thing.
< 1288900298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, is it possible to make it look exactly like gnome 2 with clearlooks?
< 1288900333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, exactly was there used in an inexact way
< 1288900369 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288900387 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1288900389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, is xfce likely to stay the same for the foreseeable future or?
< 1288900403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Xfce are merging with GNOME.
< 1288900421 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, joke right?
< 1288900427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1288900441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1288900443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, [citation needed]
< 1288900467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288900472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said it was true.
< 1288900478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, -_-
< 1288900489 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not joking, I'm lying!
< 1288900497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, it doesn't have Japanese character support!
< 1288900506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You just don't have the fonts.
< 1288900509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: install ttf-takao
< 1288900517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ...
< 1288900527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1288900550 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1288900562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are you two fighting over how awful GNOME is?
< 1288900571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1288900577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is just being whiny and I'm trying to irritate him.
< 1288900601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, you *do* realise Xfce changes panel design all the time?
< 1288900605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Xfce 4.2: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Xfce-4.2.2.png
< 1288900609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you were whiny about the new gnome-panel replacement too!
< 1288900610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Xfce 4.6: http://iamrajendra.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/xfce46.png
< 1288900621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't whiny, I hate it because it sucks, you were just whining about everything that changed.
< 1288900626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, see above two images.
< 1288900640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so everything that changed sucked!
< 1288900643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, same thing
< 1288900651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, see above two images.
< 1288900654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and yeah, I would dislike that
< 1288900692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes mental note: if gnome stops maintaining the panel and I take up maintaining it, don't tell Vorpal
< 1288900748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would fit your usual style
< 1288900796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we can all agree that KDE is garbage, right?
< 1288900806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more likely just to use the last gnome-panel release and keep updating the rest of GNOME if that happens.
< 1288900850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes indeed these days
< 1288900854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it used to be good
< 1288900890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm twm stayed the same forever. Time to learn to love twm
< 1288900895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1288900941 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, KDE 4 is a shitty UI.
< 1288900956 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That looks more like a change in the defaults more than anything.
< 1288900958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All hail twm!
< 1288900997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It is.
< 1288901002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so is using gnome-shell instead of gnome-panel.
< 1288901019 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough.
< 1288901037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnash totally sucks
< 1288901119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does.
< 1288901121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but it is FOSS!
< 1288901127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, and it sucks.
< 1288901134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I didn't deny that
< 1288901145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does YouTube! Well, the audio doesn't lag if you're on a different tab, so there's that.
< 1288901176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, slow computer?
< 1288901196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, YouTube is good enough for me.
< 1288901200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no.
< 1288901209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it's not hot on the CPU, but Adobe Flash works just fine.
< 1288901222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Video/audio freeze for a split second every few seconds.
< 1288901224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my experience.
< 1288901250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, problematic, but not quite *crippling*.
< 1288901266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the first video I tried has very quiet audio.
< 1288901318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This appears to be a general thing
< 1288901422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Check system volume? WFM
< 1288901425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My volume is at max, too; there's no obvious cause.
< 1288901425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or YouTube volume :P
< 1288901436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: $ alsamixer
< 1288901441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what is the system volume?
< 1288901446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In your top-right corner.
< 1288901456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's maxed.
< 1288901464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1288901471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: $ alsamixer
< 1288901473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worth a look.
< 1288901486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also maxed.
< 1288901490 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurr durr
< 1288901509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, all of the controls in alsamixer are maxed?
< 1288901514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there's something called "Speaker" I just maxed.
< 1288901518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries again.
< 1288901547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, much better.
< 1288901752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, laptop?
< 1288901768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1288901790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explains why it had such a specific name, instead of, say, "line out" or "analogue out"
< 1288901805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also: just one speaker?
< 1288901823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there were two controls.
< 1288901833 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were tied, though.
< 1288901860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, presumably one control with two stereo channels :P
< 1288901864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, huh, not the left/right side of one thing in alsamixer?
< 1288901868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not tied if you use q and w or something.
< 1288901877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed
< 1288901883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interestingly my Master here is just one channel; it was two in Ubuntu.
< 1288901884 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes, that.
< 1288901911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
Forbidden
Your client does not have permission to get URL /search?q=x from this server. (Client IP address: 91.105.90.101)
< 1288901914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google don't like curl.
< 1288902003 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1288902043 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288902058 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next point of order: change the theme to something nicer than Clearlooks.
< 1288902121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Grey Mist!
< 1288902131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curl -A Mozilla 'http://www.google.com/search?q=hello+world' | sed -n 's/.*resultStats>About \(.*\) results.*/\1/g;p'
< 1288902133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Work, dammit, work.
< 1288902154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Unity is quite nice, from the default installed ones.
< 1288902233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288902253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, set the user agent to Mozilla
< 1288902257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait you did
< 1288902261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurr :P
< 1288902286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now tell my why my sed doesn't work.
< 1288902304 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greedy regexes?
< 1288902315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are you trying to do with it?
< 1288902320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1288902345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what's the sed for "go to next line" again? :P
< 1288902356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleargh, I hate sed.
< 1288902358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, slipped my mind
< 1288902370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I want is "if this substitution succeeds, print the line"!
< 1288902509 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no! The middle click doesn't work any more!
< 1288902531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: ...?
< 1288902563 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Ubuntu, tapping the top-right corner of the touchpad middle-clicked.
< 1288902569 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't any more.
< 1288902581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Go into Mouse preferences.
< 1288902584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably something there.
< 1288902596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe :P
< 1288902654 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1288902694 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1288902751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/zDzYt.jpg this makes me want to succumb to the minecraft hype
< 1288902914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://towardsdawns.blogspot.com/ This too.
< 1288902976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, gpointingdevicesettings?
< 1288902982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(might be missing some - in there)
< 1288903009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it can probably set that
< 1288903035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://live.gnome.org/GPointingDeviceSettings
< 1288903042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Today I decided to ask for adopter of GPointingDeviceSettings. The single reason is that I no longer have hardware (touchpad) needed to diagnose most of bugs which appear within it."
< 1288903044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would help. :P
< 1288903055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh :P
< 1288903077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah! That's it. I'm buying Minecraft.
< 1288903096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't manage to play the classical online either?
< 1288903108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I could. But the Alpha looks so nice.
< 1288903117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never got the non-alpha to work :(
< 1288903122 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-173.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288903133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I could try on that non x86-64 perhaps...
< 1288903187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you need the sun jvm
< 1288903259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not openjdk?
< 1288903281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Download Minecraft.jar, an executable jar file. It might work as-is.
< 1288903281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you run into out of memory errors, try launching it with java -Xmx1024M -Xms512M -cp Minecraft.jar net.minecraft.LauncherFrame
< 1288903282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, please make sure you're running the Sun JVM... "
< 1288903282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the alpha
< 1288903286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'd assume the same goes for classic too
< 1288903299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288903328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W T F "ehird" is taken
< 1288903335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1288903337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's me!
< 1288903338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, except alpha worked up until login for me with openjdk
< 1288903346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you bought it?
< 1288903360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, my account must be super-old... I must have registered this when Hideous told me about it, and that was in very early days...
< 1288903373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Alpha costs money, so presumably it won't let you in if you don't buy it :P
< 1288903430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh of *course* I remember when it was single-player only.
< 1288903450 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft dot ... jar!?
< 1288903458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's written in Java :P
< 1288903463 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eugh
< 1288903478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Winge winge winge, if it wasn't it'd be Windows-only.
< 1288903550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I decompiled minecraft alpha .jar btw. Pointless, it downloads another jar after logging in and getting a session token.
< 1288903566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java is after all easy to decompile
< 1288903604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, clever, auto-updates
< 1288903637 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to get your hands of the data directory of someone who's already logged in and downloaded the stuff
< 1288903685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and watch as it doesn't let you talk to the server because you're not authenticated
< 1288903725 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write your own server
< 1288903745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's perfectly legal to use one of the third-party servers for free :P
< 1288903747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server is up for download.
< 1288903753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, congrats, you failed at rebellion!
< 1288903774 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then you just need to remove the checks from the downloaded jar you download
< 1288903788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...??? Or just tell it to connect to a different server.
< 1288903800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think olsner quite grasps how this works.
< 1288903816 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that easy? I thought it tried to authenticate the client before letting you in
< 1288903828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dunno; the server is up for download
< 1288903835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is the actual minecraft jar
< 1288903845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one would assume you're allowed to just set up your own server
< 1288903850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as those already exist
< 1288903857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& i've heard friends saying they just use third-party servers
< 1288903927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, single-player classic starts.
< 1288903975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, my card can't handle the AWESOME
< 1288904181 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so you need to get your hands of the data directory of someone who's already logged in and downloaded the stuff <-- yes
< 1288904277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would you send me the data dir? just for trying it out you understand. Since I can't get the classical version to work... If I can get it to work and like it enough to play it more than an hour or two I would buy it.
< 1288904281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gyaah what version of Debian is this?
< 1288904292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wasting that money without being able to test it first? nah
< 1288904293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Um, testing.
< 1288904301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Right now it is called "squeeze".
< 1288904316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is currently frozen; after squeeze's release, it will begin to be updated regularly again.
< 1288904321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You see, I would but I haven't bought it yet :P
< 1288904329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Making sure I can play it without ZOMGSLOW first.
< 1288904347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also surely you'd need a premium account on the server?
< 1288904352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *is* a networked game after all
< 1288904354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... think
< 1288904378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean *if* you buy it
< 1288904386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1288904391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't need a premium account except for downloading it
< 1288904397 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can play it offline after that
< 1288904401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by checking a box
< 1288904439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it says you have to login at least once but based on decompiling it decides you haven't logged in at least once due to the downloaded files missing
< 1288904449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1288904459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unless the main jar have some additional checks, it should work fine
< 1288904473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes distorted game music is due to appletness
< 1288904482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you got the applet to work?
< 1288904483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1288904485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how?
< 1288904491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Step 1. Install sun-java6-plugin.
< 1288904494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 2. There is no step 2.
< 1288904497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288904511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is the partner repo right? it isn't in multiverse at least
< 1288904518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, not partner.
< 1288904522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then where?
< 1288904527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on ubuntu
< 1288904536 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SUCKS TO BE YOU.
< 1288904539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"non-free" :P I'm googling
< 1288904546 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's in non-free on Debian.
< 1288904550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, the sun-java6 packages have been dropped from the ...
< 1288904552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA HA HA HA HA
< 1288904556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ouch
< 1288904560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Try just installing the icedtea plugin or something.
< 1288904561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might work!
< 1288904571 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, try that; should work just fine.
< 1288904572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well icedtea + openjdk did not
< 1288904573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1288904583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the browser plugin may be a separate package
< 1288904585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288904591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is with the sun JRE
< 1288904605 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird that OpenJDK wouldn't work; it's almost exactly the same as the Sun JVM.
< 1288904608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries openjdk himself
< 1288904618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icedtea depends on openjdk
< 1288904620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1288904633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the package does
< 1288904640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? :p
< 1288904660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: icedtea is an alternative jvm for openjdk
< 1288904661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.
< 1288904664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that means it will use openjdk, which doesn't work
< 1288904666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION icedtea6-plugin
< 1288904675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, that's all icedtea works with...
< 1288904678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Try icedtea6-plugin.
< 1288904683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I *tried* that
< 1288904686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1288904689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries it
< 1288904707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Okay, yes, that doesn't work.
< 1288904720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What about the gcj jre? :p
< 1288904729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I doubt has a plugin.
< 1288904731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sun-java packages are in the partner repo on lucid. But not sun-java6-plugin
< 1288904740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably one of them includes -plugin
< 1288904743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth a try
< 1288904760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I did a second u in aptitude and now it is there
< 1288904760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1288904793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense
< 1288904912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bet it's less choppy in Chrome.
< 1288904915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following NEW packages will be installed:
< 1288904916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : chromium-browser chromium-browser-inspector{a} libv8-2.2.24{a}
< 1288905341 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: HEY
< 1288905343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: HEY PIKHQ
< 1288905349 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: GO LOOK AT ECONOMIST.COM
< 1288905357 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Namely the doctype and MIME type)
< 1288905519 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs a nuke
< 1288905855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Care to explain?
< 1288905881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text/javascript?
< 1288905920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, need to restart X server.
< 1288905923 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288905978 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Kinda makes me look like small potatoes, DUNNIT
< 1288905988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288906193 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: text/html for XHTML.
< 1288906203 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This is broken and people should make it stop.
< 1288906262 0 :Zuu_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Zuu
< 1288906279 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288906320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Note: It's legal XHTML.
< 1288906324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not recommended.
< 1288906330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're actually saying "Work around browser bugs!".
< 1288906334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "follow the spec".
< 1288906342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, not legal XHTML 1.1. But nobody uses that.)
< 1288906385 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's legal XHTML, but it has a lot of brokenness.
< 1288906400 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mostly coming from how even XHTML-supporting browsers will use their HTML parsers on it.
< 1288906406 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288906423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288906429 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And so there's a *lot* of invalid XHTML with an XHTML DTD and HTML doctype floating around.
< 1288906432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: So your "graar things that are technically incorrect" argument LOSES because it's perfectly valid.
< 1288906477 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it's valid, but broken.
< 1288906501 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because it gets treated as HTML, and HTML parsers allow for a lot of broken shit.
< 1288906531 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whereas an XHTML parser would just say "fuck you" at the first sign of being non-well-formed, and so people wouldn't actually put out broken "XHTML".
< 1288906540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Whereas an XHTML parser would just say "fuck you" at the first sign of being non-well-formed, and so people wouldn't actually put out broken "XHTML".
< 1288906547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus breaking Postel's Law, one of the most important laws of the internet.
< 1288906550 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288906585 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, it's invalid XHTML 5. :)
< 1288906594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thus breaking Postel's Law, one of the most important laws of the internet.
< 1288906596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Whereas an XHTML parser would just say "fuck you" at the first sign of being non-well-formed, and so people wouldn't actually put out broken "XHTML".
< 1288906597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this
< 1288906598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not an advantage
< 1288906663 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Being leniant in what you accept has caused a *lot* of fucking problems on the Web. It's taking Postel's Law to Postel's Braindamage.
< 1288906668 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1288906675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, it's literally Postel's Law.
< 1288906678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/01/08/postels-law
< 1288906678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/01/14/thought_experiment
< 1288906682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard links I give to everyone about this.
< 1288906690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read these, read all of these, and then don't stop until you have finished reading all of these two.
< 1288906854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so did you buy minecraft or?
< 1288906863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh yeah i buy things immediately.
< 1288906868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Problem: What people actually do is "if it's accepted by $USERAGENT, that's conservative enough." What I want is for web browsers to kick authors in the balls for that.
< 1288906872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm still trying to figure out if the sound thing would be easily fixable
< 1288906884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hi, I see you didn't read both of those links.
< 1288906889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please read both of those links. Thank you.
< 1288906902 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in minecraft? it works fine on this old x86-32 dell laptop with a pentium M!
< 1288906910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in the classic applet thingy
< 1288906911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: linux sound sucks ass
< 1288906915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stuttery here
< 1288906922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ubuntu, pulseaudio alsa
< 1288906929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't care.
< 1288906930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pentium M
< 1288906935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not even intel audio
< 1288906939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel audio here.
< 1288906939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some weird ac97 thingy
< 1288906943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the problem.
< 1288906951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, perhaps meditate on this statement: "Just because I am a zealot, this does not mean that my zealotry should dictate how systems should operate, rather than far more important concerns."
< 1288906962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm sound in applets work fine on my thinkpad with intel hd audio
< 1288906970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, the dell is intel. Just not intel hd
< 1288906977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel HDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD here
< 1288906995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definition SO HIGH that LINUX HATES YOU
< 1288907000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: From those links, I get one thing: don't fucking use XHTML at all, because a conforming implementation should kick you in the balls if you fuck it up at all.
< 1288907013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And you don't want to be kicked in the balls now do you.
< 1288907020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, so basically, removing the / before > makes Postel's Law okay again.
< 1288907027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Even though there is no reason XML should behave differently to everything else.
< 1288907032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Even though the only person who wanted it to was Tim Bray.
< 1288907046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who unilaterally decided to break Postel's Law for no reason other than he wanted to, despite many complaints, in the formative days of XML.
< 1288907061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I'm in favor of deleting XML entirely, so...
< 1288907062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet -- if you remove that / before that > -- suddenly, your zealotry disappears and it's okay again.
< 1288907065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For no reason at all.
< 1288907069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I just installed sun vm on my thinkpad with intel hd, no stuttering
< 1288907081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usual sound quality for the built in speakers
< 1288907101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: See, here's the thing. XML is *supposed* to "always be entirely well formed". If you're unwilling to put up with that, fucking stop with the XML.
< 1288907108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: By the way, did I mention? Want SVG in HTML?
< 1288907113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You have to use XHTML.
< 1288907113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or: TLDR; fucking stop with the XML.
< 1288907116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HTML 5.
< 1288907120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lolno
< 1288907125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Lolyes.
< 1288907131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://burningbird.net/svg/example15-6.html
< 1288907132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://burningbird.net/svg/example15-6.xhtml
< 1288907135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note how only the latter works
< 1288907150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: SECOND ONE SERVED AS TEXT/HTML OH EM GEE CLOUDS RAIN DOWN FROM THE SKY
< 1288907177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Invalid XHTML5 hooray.
< 1288907186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He should be conservative in what he sends.
< 1288907197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Care to give me a variation on the first file that works?
< 1288907202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protip: you can't because only XHTML5 can do that.
< 1288907228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HTML 5 has it in the spec.
< 1288907233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not my fault useragents don't have it.
< 1288907238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, and XHTML has text/html in the spec too.
< 1288907243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet you advocate working around browsers there.
< 1288907252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS THIS? The zealot is hypocritical?
< 1288907254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, never, surely not ...
< 1288907256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: XHTML 5 explicitly has it not in the spec.
< 1288907277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Congratulations, you changed the topic to avoid answering my question.
< 1288907335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This only works in XHTML 5." "Well, it's in the spec. It's the browser's problem." "But you strongly advocate not sending XHTML 1 as text/html, even though this is in the XHTML 1 spec, and it is just a browser workaround." "[CHANGE TOPIC TO SERVING HTML AS TEXT/HTML AND REFERENCE XHTML5 EVEN THOUGH THAT HAS NO RELEVANCE HERE]"
< 1288907362 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288907376 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fight! Fight! Fight!
< 1288907389 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover__
< 1288907411 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :________________
< 1288907413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes: "[implication that this is a meaningless flamewar]", the most effective way to make sure that it is impossible to claim anyone is right.
< 1288907422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay. The problem is not in sending 100% valid XHTML 1 as text/html, the problem is that most people send out somewhat broken HTML with an XHTML DTD as text/html.
< 1288907426 0 :________________!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1288907430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Stop changing the subject.
< 1288907439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not saying it's a flame war. It is a fight.
< 1288907443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uh, from what?O
< 1288907457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Serving XHTML as text/html to serving XHTML as text/html?
< 1288907457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is an argument. There is a difference.
< 1288907480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A BORING difference!
< 1288907482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SUBJECT 1: "SVG embedding only works in XHTML 5, not HTML 5." SUBJECT 2: "XHTML as text/html".
< 1288907486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an intellectual fight¬!
< 1288907487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*!
< 1288907523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, subject 1. It *should* work in HTML 5. That it does not is a bug in the browsers.
< 1288907527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You decided to disregard Subject 1 by replying that it is the browser's fault. I replied pointing out the inconsistency; as for subject 2, even with Gregor, who had perfectly valid XHTML served as text/html, you yelled at him to change the Content-Type. This is a workaround for a browser bug. But so is using XHTML 5 to embed SVG!
< 1288907537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in Subject 1, you advocate not working around browsers.
< 1288907543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in Subject 2, you VEHEMENTLY argue for working around browsers.
< 1288907550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are, therefore, a zealot and a hypocrite.
< 1288907589 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A zealohypocrite.
< 1288907601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By the way, nice job on showing me the *first* case of actually *gaining* something by sending XHTML as text/html.\
< 1288907625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Seriously, I had no clue that there was any advantage at *all* over just using HTML.
< 1288907638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why http://intertwingly.net/ is XHTML 5.
< 1288907658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Though in this case it's minor, because the only useragent without SVG support is also the only useragent without XHTML support.
< 1288907681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...so? The point is that XHTML 5 *does* have advantages over HTML 5, in practical use.
< 1288907688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Such as?
< 1288907692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVG embedding.
< 1288907698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://burningbird.net/svg/example15-6.html does not work.
< 1288907701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://burningbird.net/svg/example15-6.xhtml works.
< 1288907729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And the only user agent that wouldn't handle compliant XHTML 5 doesn't support the SVG embedding anyways.
< 1288907748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and?
< 1288907762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*The point is that your complete dismissal of XML is wrong because XHTML 5 has an advantage over HTML 5.*
< 1288907769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I am not talking about Content-Types for once, for fuck's sake*
< 1288907770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... So it'll be broken even if you are liberal in what you send?
< 1288907799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...??????????
< 1288907812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORGET CONTENT-TYPES EXIST FOR A MOMENT (try saving these files to your computer first)
< 1288907825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://burningbird.net/svg/example15-6.html is HTML 5, because it has no xmlns attribute in the html tag.
< 1288907830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://burningbird.net/svg/example15-6.xhtml is XHTML 5, because it does.
< 1288907837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVG embedding only works in the latter, in modern implementations.
< 1288907838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XHTML 5 with the text/html doctype is invalid. You need to not be conservative in what you send in order to do that.
< 1288907847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU IT IS NOT ABOUT CONTENT-TYPE
< 1288907857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAVE THE FILES TO YOUR COMPUTER BEFORE THINKING ABOUT THIS
< 1288907860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(THUS THERE ARE NO CONTENT-TYPES)
< 1288907894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so there are a lot of user-agents that fail at embedded SVG. Where are you going with this?
< 1288907921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't fail at it when it's xhtml 5
< 1288907922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus
< 1288907927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm saying that xhtml 5 has a reason to exist over html 5
< 1288907937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in reply to you saying that xml should just be forgotten about
< 1288907960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That reason being that browsers are buggy?
< 1288907983 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288907993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Seriously, SVG embedding *should* work 100% fine in HTML 5, but browsers have apparently not implemented it.
< 1288907994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure.
< 1288908004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with XHTML as application/xml+xhtml being preferable to text/html./
< 1288908010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the browser's fault but that does not make it irrelevant.
< 1288908029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ironically, this works even when the XHTML 5 is transmitted as text/html, thus proving that browsers do *not* automatically treat everything sent as text/html as pure HTML.
< 1288908035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, they treat it as XHTML 5.
< 1288908054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is astounding. When they're allowed to they don't and when they're not allowed to they do.
< 1288908081 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUAHAHAHAHA
< 1288908085 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You lose every argument FOREVER.
< 1288908096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though actually...
< 1288908097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think you will find that the HTML 5 parsing spec allows them to do it.
< 1288908105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is, by definition, extremely liberal in what it accepts.
< 1288908114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being that it accepts every byte string.
< 1288908132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The behavior they're showing for the XHTML 5 *is* in fact exactly how it should work if interpreted as invalid HTML 5.
< 1288908148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just don't handle the case of valid HTML 5. That's... Amazingly stupid. :P
< 1288908411 0 :Erofa!~Erofa@77-239-186-35.static.vega-ua.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288908460 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIz3g7pdHDM
< 1288908507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ah*.
< 1288908514 0 :Erofa!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288908543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The HTML 5 with SVG embedded doesn't work in the version of Chrome that Debian ships with right now.
< 1288908557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And it requires manual enabling for Firefox.
< 1288908567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, the way to get it to work: use a newer browser.
< 1288908612 0 :Erofa!~Erofa@77-239-186-35.static.vega-ua.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288908624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't tell you why it works using the HTML parser on XHTML though. Seriously, I got nothing.
< 1288908636 0 :Erofa!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288908643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hmm. Maybe they try to parse it as XHTML then fail to the HTML parser?)
< 1288908650 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1288909009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288909141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Being that it accepts every byte string <--- even embedded NUL? even 9-bit bytes with the high bit set?
< 1288909176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's no such thing as a 9-bit byte.
< 1288909190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But yes, U+0 is accepted by the parser.
< 1288909276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there is a 9-bit byte, see, for example, the C standard, which allows arbitrary bytewidths >= 8
< 1288909287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some systems actually use 9-bit bytes
< 1288909289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not on the Internet.
< 1288909294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, networks transmit in octets, so you'd have to be loading a local file
< 1288909421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1288909563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still puzzles about that while !times thing
< 1288909571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is such a great bug, I want to know what caused it
< 1288909602 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What it did when you triggered that bug?
< 1288909648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: it was a bug report by someone else, in a closed-source MMO that has since been fixed
< 1288909655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the ridiculousness of the bug that drove my curiosity
< 1288909659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to find what I wrote
< 1288909713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "sub f while !times 2 use spices endwhile endsub while !times 4 call f endwhile", "while !times 2 while !times 2 use spices endwhile endwhile", "while !times 2 while !times 4 use spices endwhile endwhile", "while !times 4 while !times 2 use spices endwhile endwhile" use spices 4, 3, 19, 5 times respectively
< 1288909724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only info I had, but it's crazy enough to wonder what on earth is going on
< 1288909756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a reference point, "while !times 5 use spices endwhile" would use spices 5 times; that's the intended use
< 1288909779 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No information what that piece of code actually did in buggy implementations?
< 1288909814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: hmm?
< 1288909835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: the bug was related to the nesting of while
< 1288909845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the implementation of times
< 1288909885 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I think I understand what the bug actually is, but I haven't thought what could cause it.
< 1288909898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, go for it, maybe someone else can take it back a level
< 1288909951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Y'know what? Fuck HTML. We should go back to Gopher.
< 1288910070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what's absurdly hard?
< 1288910079 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retrieving my Evolution setup.
< 1288910094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving .evolution across did nothing,
< 1288910251 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it referes how many times spices are used if you run those code snppets. Looks like nested loops run totally wrong number of times...
< 1288910377 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And might not be simple bug, as it interacts with subroutine calls at well (both first and fourth should use the same amount, but they don't).
< 1288911573 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288912029 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288912067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to comment on something weird, then I realized I divided by 0.
< 1288912071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to comment anyway.
< 1288912102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuh?
< 1288912165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :∫0dx = 0∫dx = 0(x + C) = 0.. where'd the C go
< 1288912190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of clear that the division by 0 makes it screwy.. but not in a way that explains to me how the C disappeared
< 1288912198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no issue for any non-0 constant obviously
< 1288912229 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION .. kind of imagines that it's a C that * 0 can be nonzero.. similar to how non-0 multipliers do it
< 1288912238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that this somehow came about due to the division by 0
< 1288912475 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well, intuitively, the integral of 0 dx is a constant.
< 1288912512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence me asking where the C went
< 1288912515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FWIW, someone has posted a reversible life rule to the rule table repository.
< 1288912548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm investigating.
< 1288912615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out I don't know how to compile Golly on Debian.
< 1288912629 0 :iGO!iGO@78.130.4.142.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288912679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host
< 1288912726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs more packages.
< 1288912804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, clearly, for any non 0 n, ∫n dx = n∫dx = n(x+C) = nx + nC and nC is still just a constant
< 1288912810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which we may as well call C
< 1288912819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go.
< 1288912820 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-196-169.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288912825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION investigates.
< 1288912840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb pikhq
< 1288913067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir is failing; should I panic?
< 1288913151 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288913333 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failing with what error?
< 1288913440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mkdir: error while loading shared libraries: libselinux.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
< 1288913449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, reinstalling libselinux1 does not help.
< 1288913516 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028070.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288913743 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288913766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like most of my problems, it was my own fault.
< 1288913783 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g230229134.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288913808 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288914058 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288914195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Don't bother attempting to implement Factor in Second Life
< 1288914287 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288914681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/Provider/ServerWriter.html last modified 1995
< 1288914685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a run-through of what is needed to make a www server , with examples from a suggested server for the HEPDATA base of Mike Whalley . See also etiquette .
< 1288914776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288914916 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g231048108.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288915264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288916505 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" elliott, FWIW, someone has posted a reversible life rule to the rule table repository." <<< two-dimensional reversible CA? how is that interesting
< 1288916536 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do i misinterpret life rule
< 1288917519 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288917532 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288917632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you don't misinterpret, presumably phanty means one that has close-to-life behaviour or ... something
< 1288917640 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288917642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe one that uses colours to simulate reversibility on "regular" life or something
< 1288917789 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288917883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i feel like i should know something about when that's possible
< 1288918139 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://notalwaysright.com/ah-fathers-part-4/8117
< 1288918323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiNT
< 1288919181 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288919525 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288921203 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1288921336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#tweetyour16yearoldself Make plans for college. Learn to drive. Don't rely on dad's planning for either.
< 1288921541 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1288923481 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288923489 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288923518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Goooo me!
< 1288923525 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drivers license: 16
< 1288923530 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plans for college: Great success
< 1288923550 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#tweetyour16yearoldself YOU'RE AWESOME! KEEP DOIN' WHAT YOU DO
< 1288923555 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288923672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't learned to drive
< 1288925250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1288925288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1288925298 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Drivers license: 16 <-- I read that as "Driver licenses" XD
< 1288925340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, learning to drive isn't hard when you get the knack of it ;)
< 1288925360 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err get the hang of it
< 1288925370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mixed up two idioms didn't I?)
< 1288925378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bth are valid
< 1288925386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288925395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, any news wrt. minecraft?
< 1288925416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly buying tonight
< 1288925428 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288925470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc it was all but one file in ~/.minecraft that had to be copied. The one file that shouldn't be copied had the saved username/passwd.
< 1288925541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also building aqueducts and bridges in classic is fun
< 1288925561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also there is a max altitude in classic at least
< 1288925571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I arranged for a jump from top to bottom
< 1288925584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't last nearly long enough
< 1288925662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have fun, need to sleep now →
< 1288925826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "knack of it" seems a tiny bit archaic, but it's entirely valid.
< 1288926602 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/electrical-brain-zap-boosts-maths-ability-2125389.html I was thinking how I'd like that, but then started thinking that my problem is ignorance, not lack of ability
< 1288927757 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha... 'Maternal Intake of "Saturated Fat" Causes Liver Disease -- You Know, the Unsaturated Kind of Saturated Fat'.
< 1288927782 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't know that unsaturated saturated fat exists... :-)
< 1288928015 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-67-174-179-115.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288928110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1288928467 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I know. Trans fats are said to be equivalent to saturated fat, but aren't saturated, so I think unsaturated saturated fats really means trans fats. :->
< 1288928571 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1288928581 0 :You!~WHAT@75-174-219-194.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288928586 0 :You!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION have been disconnected from the server. Please reconnect.
< 1288928606 0 :You!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest50789
< 1288928612 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah.
< 1288928618 0 :Guest50789!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sasha
< 1288928650 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad thing is
< 1288928656 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that worked in another channel
< 1288928749 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked so well
< 1288928830 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teleanalysis has reached its bottom. If A is uncorrelated with B and B is correlated with C, A causes C (classic teleanalysis is if A is correlated with B and B is corrlated with C, then A causes C).
< 1288928863 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: it's best if you idle for a while
< 1288928869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do it right then, it's obvious
< 1288928881 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Trans fats are not cis fats
< 1288928886 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I did it right then
< 1288928898 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no such thing as an unsaturated saturated fat
< 1288928903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and there's no such thing as an unsaturated saturated fat
< 1288928904 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, all trans fats are unsaturated. :-)
< 1288928905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ilari knows that.
< 1288928917 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: no, I mean you join as You, then you wait for a long while, /then/ you inform people of their disconnection
< 1288928924 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Heh
< 1288928933 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the other channel, I did it as soon as I entered
< 1288928943 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trolled 5 or 6 people 5 or 6 times
< 1288928947 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all noobs to IRC
< 1288928951 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there are also fats that have both cis and trans double bond (CLA).
< 1288929066 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a bit of different animals than techno fats: IIRC, in one study, for normal (techno) trans fats, ratio of $SOMETHING_BAD between highest and lowest quitiles was 5, whereas it was 0.5 for CLA...
< 1288929184 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, all studies of milkfat involving real markers (and not just notoriously unreliable dietary questionaries) say milk fat is healthy.
< 1288929228 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Milk is tasty
< 1288929247 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially whole milk... :-)
< 1288929314 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and milk fat is also good for dissolving various useful compounds out of vegetables... :-)
< 1288929469 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dietary questionaries are unreliable for three reasons: 1) They don't capture the diet well, 2) People have poor memory about what they have eaten (even recently), 3) Intentional distortion.
< 1288929578 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be fun to first do a log of everything eaten for a week, then fill dietary questionare with that log as reference and then see the garbage that results...
< 1288929643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably do such a log from memory
< 1288929653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My diet doesn't vary as much as it possibly should
< 1288929722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any justification for changing a diet day-to-day from a health point of view.
< 1288929730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chocolate cheerios for breakfast sometimes, sometimes potato chips. Chicken sandwich with lettice and onions. Coca-Cola (not Diet). ~1 box of Pasta with Parmesan Cheese
< 1288929731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's nutritious one twenty-four hour period it's nutritious the next...
< 1288929755 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh...
< 1288929767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if one 24 hour period provides only some nutrients, but the next it's varied up, providing the rest?
< 1288929778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl @ Ugh...
< 1288929801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You are making Ilari cringe.
< 1288929815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the sandwich is only on school days, Monday-Thursday
< 1288929830 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works... Usual nutrion misinformation claims that one must get water-soluble vitamins every day. Defiency symptoms with those take at least weeks to appear...
< 1288929849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I even *felt* the cringe over IRC.
< 1288929861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounded like: "*cringe*".
< 1288929861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Waitwaitwait. That's what you eat *each and every day*?
< 1288929866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cringe*
< 1288929883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :oerjan missing | *cringe* record: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1288929890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the potato chips are also only on school days. Often, on those days, they're instead of the cheerios
< 1288929900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soda is also only on school days
< 1288929936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chips for breakfast. That's... Urgh.
< 1288929974 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and they conviently don't mention that fat-soluble vitamins (including the extremely important vitamin D) *require* fat to be absorbed.
< 1288930007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Debian's xorg no longer ships with twm.
< 1288930009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE HERETICS!
< 1288930019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sudo aptitude install twm
< 1288930021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better!
< 1288930048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Modular X.org...
< 1288930060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is evil and lacks twm purity.
< 1288930064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next sentence?
< 1288930067 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Potato chips wouldn't be so bad (not that those would be good even then) if those used proper fats for cooking (instead of kinds of fats that are completely unsuitable for cooking).
< 1288930075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Doesn't have Twm by default.
< 1288930079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is evil and lacks twm purity.
< 1288930092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Such fats being?
< 1288930094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, twm is modern! It supports the Debian menu!
< 1288930109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Would it make you feel better to know that Gentoo's X.org meta package does include Twm?
< 1288930116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, because that's Gentoo.
< 1288930122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because that meta package is "the entirety of X")
< 1288930133 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coconut oil, palm oil, lard, ghee, tallow, ... Pick a favorite...
< 1288930165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whichever will cause me to gain weight without causing cardiac issues
< 1288930167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I'd imagine ghee would give a quite interesting flavor to chips. Now I'm curious.
< 1288930194 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some decades ago (before some front groups changed that), McDonalds used IIRC tallow for frying french fries...
< 1288930218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because tallow makes them more delicious.
< 1288930230 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, yes.
< 1288930240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oclock(1) best program ever
< 1288930251 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, vineagar makes them more delicious
< 1288930260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) Misspelling!
< 1288930265 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making ghee from butter is a simple process...
< 1288930268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) "Let's just get rid of the fat and use vinegar instead."
< 1288930282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1288930298 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Wonder what would be health effects of high amounts of organic acids...
< 1288930323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than high amounts of HF
< 1288930329 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HF?
< 1288930332 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yeah.
< 1288930345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HF scares me.
< 1288930351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HF?
< 1288930357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a chemical formula
< 1288930360 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a surprisingly weak acid
< 1288930370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was something more relevant :P
< 1288930402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, however, a powerful contact poison
< 1288930409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "weak acid" is a classification, not an indicator of corrosiveness.
< 1288930414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just got a wonderful, wonderful idea. By the last NeXTSTEP release in 1995, it noy only ran on the 68k, but also SPARC, HP PA-RISC, and... x86.
< 1288930416 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not as bad as dimethylmercury though. that shit is fucking scary)
< 1288930420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What I'm saying is: Virtual machine.
< 1288930428 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it isn't ClF3 (that thing ignites sand on contact, eats through asbestos bricks, ...)
< 1288930431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's actually highly corrosive.
< 1288930440 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, that's true
< 1288930452 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but compared to other hydrohalogenic acids, it's a weakling
< 1288930452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignites sand on contact -- I am having trouble thinking of a more awesome substance.
< 1288930486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I may have just found an x86 NextStep ISO. Cough.
< 1288930495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HF is toxic on contact.
< 1288930502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a drop of dimethylmercury on a latex glove is lethal
< 1288930505 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a /dropd/
< 1288930506 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*drop
< 1288930511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a /glove/
< 1288930524 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1288930525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I drink dimethylmercury for breakfast.
< 1288930538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bcuz im fuckin awsum
< 1288930555 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinky
< 1288930556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts planning elliott's funeral.
< 1288930562 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap, ClF3 is powerful
< 1288930568 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no ignition delay has ever been recorded"
< 1288930569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't burn you right away. It instead stops your heart.
< 1288930571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ClF3 is just my lunch.
< 1288930582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CIF3 scares me even more.
< 1288930615 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water — with which it reacts explosively"
< 1288930621 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's also FOOF. Explodes on contact with ice at -170 degC.
< 1288930628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Did You Know? There's aptitude-gtk.
< 1288930664 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can't find much on CIF3
< 1288930675 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I don't even know if that compound could exist
< 1288930688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The problem is, it's no good. :)
< 1288930701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Fluorine makes a lot of unusual compounds.
< 1288930714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What with being the most reactive element.
< 1288930724 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1288930730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XeF8 is my favorite
< 1288930734 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orbitals of Cl can hybrize, that's why it can form more than one bond.
< 1288930745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hydrogen fluoride is generated upon combustion of many fluorine-containing compounds such as products containing Viton and polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon) parts. Hydrogen fluoride converts immediately to hydrofluoric acid upon contact with liquid water."
< 1288930751 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, XeF4
< 1288930753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's scary
< 1288930765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xeon?
< 1288930770 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1288930772 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xenon
< 1288930794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, fluorine reacts with nobel gasses.
< 1288930798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that a noble gas?
< 1288930798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noble.
< 1288930799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: all hydrogen halides dissolve pretty much instantly
< 1288930801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288930802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait what?
< 1288930818 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :251 kJ/mol formation energy, too
< 1288930826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, fluorine reacts with nobel gasses.
< 1288930827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W
< 1288930827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T
< 1288930829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F
< 1288930836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reacts with gases that have Nobel Prizes.
< 1288930855 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the heavier noble gases are not as stable as you might think
< 1288930858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are still highly stable
< 1288930860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sir James Dewar
< 1288930863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a better man than you are
< 1288930865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of you asses
< 1288930865 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but compounds can be made with them
< 1288930866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So does water.
< 1288930868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can liquefy gases.
< 1288930883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts frothing at the mouth
< 1288930885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are.
< 1288930891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Xe·6H2O is a real compound.
< 1288930904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you _trying_ to kill me?
< 1288930907 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: uh, isn't that just a hydrated solid?
< 1288930947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ?
< 1288930966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Wikipedia page for Xenon compounds
< 1288930966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that looks like a hydrated solid
< 1288930971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Ah.
< 1288930974 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so not an actual compound as such
< 1288930976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for Noble gas compounds
< 1288930988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still WTFing
< 1288930998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like the fullerene compounds.
< 1288931009 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I didn't clarify at all, and you said 'ah'
< 1288931009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fullerene with a noble gas atom inside!
< 1288931010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1288931021 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1288931026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "Ah, you won't clarify".
< 1288931031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope the new quantum-nano building at my school is cool
< 1288931046 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, XeF8 is an ion
< 1288931055 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with charge of -2)
< 1288931057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quantum nano-building.
< 1288931065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a nano-scale building.
< 1288931078 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fluorine compounds tend to be really nasty for some reason... Especially if the fluorine is attached something quite electronegative...
< 1288931095 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fluorine is like 'whee let's react with stuff'
< 1288931108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the whore of the periodic table.
< 1288931120 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(corollory: fluorine is a whore)
< 1288931124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dgoddamit lag
< 1288931161 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I spelled corollary wrong
< 1288931193 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Load of nitrogen atoms in molecule just likes to explode. Fluorine atoms in molecule actually tend to react with lots of stuff.
< 1288931228 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, N3F... Sounds like a fun compound...
< 1288931410 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's also CN4...
< 1288931552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is that CN is cyanide (ion?)
< 1288931636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "d[007F]goddamit"
< 1288931648 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. CN4 has CN- attached to N3+...
< 1288931655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also *corollary
< 1288931715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't 7F Backspace or del or something?
< 1288931735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(YAY FOR RECOGNIZING THAT 8 IS HALF OF 10)
< 1288931763 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN HEX IT IS
< 1288931828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7+9 = 3 in base fuck you
< 1288932047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In base 12 with a zero-width space as a ... wait no.
< 1288932087 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7f? no, backspace is 8
< 1288932129 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess 7f counts as del however; i thought all the control chars were < 32
< 1288932134 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess you learn something new every day
< 1288932175 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288932176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7F = ^?
< 1288932180 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1288932181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := Delete
< 1288932184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288932185 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1288932189 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were asking a question
< 1288932191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288932192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, no
< 1288932194 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "7F = ^"?
< 1288932198 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway
< 1288932203 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it obliterates anything on paper tape
< 1288932207 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the reasoning apparently
< 1288932214 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 7-bit ascii at least
< 1288932233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should relearn COBOL
< 1288932451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *Relearn*?
< 1288932456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean you learned it once?
< 1288932463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I read a book on it once
< 1288932480 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's not the same as learning
< 1288932498 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288932761 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at practices of hog/cattle farmers when raising animals for food is rather instructive... You don't want to feed those animals saturated fat...
< 1288932838 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the reason why is exactly one reason why you should be eating saturated fat).
< 1288933099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1288933199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New xkcd in 1 min
< 1288933242 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288933321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : New xkcd in 1 min
< 1288933323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops nobody cares
< 1288933340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I secretly wanted to see how elliott would react)
< 1288933381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it start sloping downwards/
< 1288933387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1288933416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, WTF at the title
< 1288933423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have I mentioned recently that debian-installer is awesome?
< 1288933452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why does it start sloping downwards/
< 1288933459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because... you spend all your time spinning around?
< 1288933468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's xkcd. It's a steaming pile of shit. You know this.
< 1288933498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You may.
< 1288933539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is! Although the expert mode has some *really weird* parts. Like: You can disable shadow passwords. Why? But then, on the same screen, you can use sudo instead of a root account. Why isn't this in the regular install? That's useful.
< 1288933556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: On the other hand... it can set up encrypted LVM with a few clicks. wtfawesome
< 1288933624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh.
< 1288933657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Still... what kind of monster puts an utterly useless option (disable shadow passwords) on the same page as a very useful one (use sudo instead of root), and then hides that screen in the non-tedious^Wexpert installer?
< 1288933663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Non-expert, that is.)
< 1288933674 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant when the friction is higher
< 1288933693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because you can't move your chair about.
< 1288933703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's xkcd, it sucks, it makes no fucking sense! YOU KNOW THIS!
< 1288933816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Something tragic has happened in the Author’s life, and we feel that pointing out his love-life’s shortcomings or his relentless obsession with childhood would not be appropriate at this time." --xkcd explained
< 1288933854 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relentless obsession with childhood?
< 1288933854 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :score
< 1288933898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("An updated version of the Map of Online Communities - a visualization of the size and relationships between various web communities.
< 1288933899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This otherwise useless data is visualized as a map for a good reason. It is meant to convince those that spend a majority of their lives online that the communities they belong to actually matter, like actual geographic locations. It is meant to give meaning to otherwise meaningless lives.")
< 1288933902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 xkcd explained
< 1288933905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like xkcdsucks but doesn't suck!
< 1288933929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("The hatted man then walks in and replaces “hammer” and “something it is not suited for” in the aforementioned phrase with other words that the Author deemed more wacky and humorous. Another example of this could be: “when all you have is a ball-point pen, everything starts to look like a stick figure.”")
< 1288933940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Didn't the updated version of that actually show that it was a very very tiny inset of the map of Real Life?
< 1288933948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus making the point even more clear?
< 1288933957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not that I am aware of.
< 1288933966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, that quote was from xkcd explained, not Randall.
< 1288933975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RANDALL WOULD NEVER STATE SOMETHING SO OFFENSIVE TO NETIZENS
< 1288934000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has in #xkcd sometimes. I wonder why the hell he keeps the comic up, actually.
< 1288934016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The comic being that particular one or xkcd itself?
< 1288934020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the latter, I agree. :P
< 1288934024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("The Author, much like Stephen Hawking, creates comics such as these as a cry for help. A cry that will, sadly, never be heard over the cackling laughter of his devoted fans.")
< 1288934025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I could go on)
< 1288934051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: xkcd itself.
< 1288934069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: money + some horribly misguided belief that it's funny and/or emotional
< 1288934086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suspect money's the larger factor at this point.
< 1288934103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Franchise zombie!
< 1288934106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, he could easily churn out basically decent comics that appeal to the target audience on his schedule
< 1288934117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but he keeps trying to be different and even his fans sometimes go "wat" on the forums
< 1288934125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but churning out shit is easier.
< 1288934141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but he doesn't, he churns out uniquely demented shit
< 1288934151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comics he'd have to think about quite a lot just to fuck them up so effectively
< 1288934167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he's just the world's greatest troll.
< 1288934195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occam's Razor says he's just sad. :P
< 1288934583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Online Communities 2 has the entire map being a small portion of Spoken Language
< 1288934625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, indeed. It is sad that you know that.
< 1288934645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I am capable of looking at the archives and checking
< 1288934649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, in fact, what I did.
< 1288934658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is sad that you checked
< 1288935013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know of any practical reversible debuggers, i.e. program can be run backwards as well as forwards?
< 1288935021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of a Java one.
< 1288935034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://urdb.sourceforge.net/ This looks a bit fragile.
< 1288935338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An exercise in coherency:
< 1288935339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1288935339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AFAIK dwarf is format for executables, there are few formats as you know (Window's exe as opposed to linux's ... what's his name) Dwarf is used in linux, I'm guessing that when you build an app in debug mode the compiler injects debug data to the dwarf in order to debug (I'm guessing break points and etc). If Go, a high level script language is asking to enter here needs of debugging to the way you build an executable it means google is doing so
< 1288935340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mething bigger with go. (probably for android)."
< 1288935340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb
< 1288935352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uhh, gdb is not reversible.
< 1288935370 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Holy fuck.
< 1288935378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What?
< 1288935380 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whoever wrote that needs to be punched in the face.
< 1288935381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: At my quote?
< 1288935381 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A lot.
< 1288935382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1288935383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They added it in version 7. I do not know how to use it.
< 1288935397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The line immediately before it: "Ok... I think I get it... the Google is trying to rape a dwarf? :)"
< 1288935398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then that spiel.
< 1288935403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/e1c6e/go_issued_for_inclusion_in_forthcoming_dwarf_5/c14ii8l
< 1288935405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set lasers to punch.
< 1288935407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phasers
< 1288935411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Same damn thing!)
< 1288935452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm setting fists to stun.
< 1288935457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And phasers to punch.
< 1288935556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Facebook: Fuck you for not letting me see the message I sent with a friend request (that I withdrew, but whatever)
< 1288935686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: READY FOR ANOTHER MULTI-ARCHITECTURE EMULATIONFEST????
< 1288935697 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALWAYS
< 1288935741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NeXTSTEP 3.3 was released for not only Motorola 68000 but for x86, SPARC, and HP PA-RISC. I have the x86 version and am trying to get it running in qemu. I suggest you try SPARC.
< 1288935770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh, are any of these AVAILABLE? :P
< 1288935780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, I have the m68k/x86 version from torrentz.com.
< 1288935795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://torrentz.com/169206b92525ec1750b19e96acd4be5f17674b0a SPARC and HP PA-RISC.
< 1288935800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Hey, it has one seed." Good luck, bitch!
< 1288935884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (You may have better luck than I, considering this shit is talking about patching old versions of QEMU.)
< 1288935910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets qemu 0.9.0 to apply qemu-0.9.0-openstep-busmouse-2.diff
< 1288936000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"About - QEMU
< 1288936000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A processor emulator that is used to run an x86 Linux Kernel on x86 Linux."
< 1288936001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How overly humble.
< 1288936076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/qemu/ Sweet, where's the old releases.
< 1288936128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/qemu_0.9.0.orig.tar.gz
< 1288936228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WARNING: "gcc" looks like gcc 4.x
< 1288936228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking for gcc 3.x
< 1288936228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./configure: 372: Syntax error: Bad fd number
< 1288936241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dash incompatible + "gcc 4? wat"!
< 1288936252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QEMU is known to have problems when compiled with gcc 4.x
< 1288936253 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D
< 1288936253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is recommended that you use gcc 3.x to build QEMU
< 1288936253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To use this compiler anyway, configure with --disable-gcc-check
< 1288936253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+
< 1288936254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no +
< 1288936256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLZ
< 1288936264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nope, it knows what gcc 4 is, it just doesn't trust it!
< 1288936290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For 0.10 they had to rewrite much of the emulation to get it to work with GCC 4.
< 1288936296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it should now be compiler-agnostic)
< 1288936303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I should install gcc 3, huh.
< 1288936348 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is it? I thought it still depended heavily on GCC.
< 1288936376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh? Maybe. Probably a lot of magic still going on there.
< 1288936386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice; OpenStep != OPENSTEP
< 1288936393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPENSTEP is (was) the official implementation of OpenStep.
< 1288936418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahahah. Yeah, it's now compiler agnostic.
< 1288936440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so ahahahah about that :P
< 1288936445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant sure hasn't talked in a while.
< 1288936446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus answering the question posed by a recent article of The Daily WTF
< 1288936455 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If it doesn't work with MSVC, it's not compiler-agnostic ;)
< 1288936456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Daily WTF is terrible now.
< 1288936463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It has parts of TinyCC in it now.
< 1288936468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I took a shit a while ago and it didn't work with MSVC.
< 1288936470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: <3
< 1288936475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ?
< 1288936481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, where are the gcc 3 packages in Debian.
< 1288936484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were there a second ago.
< 1288936507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? Seriously, I installed it just a few days ago.
< 1288936532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# [2009-08-07] gcc-3.4 REMOVED from testing (Britney)
< 1288936534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it was there later than that.
< 1288936542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, fuck you, Britney.)
< 1288936583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs from Lenny
< 1288936584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lenny
< 1288936620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So I guess it won't build well as a 64-bit program either, huh? :P
< 1288936643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Should.
< 1288936649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good.
< 1288936677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, I used 0.9 on x86_64...
< 1288936679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gcc-3.4 depends on cpp-3.4 (= 3.4.6-9); however:
< 1288936680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Package cpp-3.4 is not installed.
< 1288936681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOES
< 1288936738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--cc=gcc-3.4 woo
< 1288936821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, i386-softmmu. Can there be anything better?
< 1288936823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMPILIN'
< 1288936829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So you are totally doing this for SPARC right? :P
< 1288936887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there functions that are continuous everywhere but differentiable nowhere? What of defined anywhere but continuous nowhere? I seem to recall seeing an example of one of those.
< 1288936992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/NeXTSTEP$ qemu-0.9.0/i386-softmmu/qemu -fda 3.3_Boot_Disk.floppyimage -cdrom NextSTEP\ 3.3\ m68k\ i486.iso -net nic,model=ne2kpc -net user -soundhw sb16 -boot a hd.qcow2
< 1288936995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION breathes in
< 1288936997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Helium the least reactive element?
< 1288937002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu: could not load PC bios '/usr/local/share/qemu/bios.bin'
< 1288937003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucktard!
< 1288937035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/NeXTSTEP$ find qemu-0.9.0 -name bios.bin
< 1288937036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/NeXTSTEP$
< 1288937038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???
< 1288937045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does QEMU 0.9.0 not ship with a BIOS or something?
< 1288937047 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1288937066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- The PC BIOS comes from the Bochs project
< 1288937067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (http://bochs.sourceforge.net/). A patch from bios.diff was applied.
< 1288937067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- The VGA BIOS and the Cirrus VGA BIOS come from the LGPL VGA bios
< 1288937067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : project (http://www.nongnu.org/vgabios/).
< 1288937068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1288937072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then where are they?
< 1288937146 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Pretty much.
< 1288937147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/NeXTSTEP$ qemu-0.9.0/i386-softmmu/qemu -L /usr/share/qemu -fda 3.3_Boot_Disk.floppyimage -cdrom NextSTEP\ 3.3\ m68k\ i486.iso -net nic,model=ne2kpc -net user -soundhw sb16 -boot a hd.qcow2
< 1288937150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could possibly go wrong?
< 1288937154 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You can't get helium to react to anything.
< 1288937155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu: Unsupported NIC: ne2kpc
< 1288937157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mother fucks goats.
< 1288937187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the next noble gas down, and does that react with anything?
< 1288937223 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Noble gases, unless ionic, don't react to anything. They're pretty dull all the way up 'til radon. Of course, before there you can still heat 'em up to make pretty colors :P
< 1288937250 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/heat 'em up/put huge amounts of electricity through them/
< 1288937279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ne2k_pci", "ne2k_isa"
< 1288937286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's from my version, but still.
< 1288937287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xenon is before Radon
< 1288937305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's assume it's _pci.
< 1288937311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo, blank QEMU screen of DEATH
< 1288937333 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, and Xenon is /mostly/ boring.
< 1288937337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explanations required :P
< 1288937340 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just less so than the ones before it :P
< 1288937366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, when do they stop being 100% boring?
< 1288937367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears that it doesn't like the BIOS at all for some reason.
< 1288937401 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: None of them are 100% boring. Even helium can be made to react, just takes a lot of energy.
< 1288937504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do they start making stable compounds?
< 1288937563 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Compounds/?
< 1288937572 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we were talking about noble gases here.
< 1288937585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how do I tell qemu to use pcbios, not vgabios?
< 1288937600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Helium can form unstable compounds, known as excimers, with tungsten, iodine, fluorine, sulfur and phosphorus when it is subjected to an electric glow discharge, to electron bombardment, or else is a plasma for another reason. The molecular compounds HeNe, HgHe10, and WHe2, and the molecular ions He
< 1288937600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+
< 1288937600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2
< 1288937600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, He
< 1288937601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2+
< 1288937605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2
< 1288937607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, HeH+, and HeD+ have been created this way.[59]"
< 1288937651 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wondering why you're defining unboringness as stable compounds :P
< 1288937654 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think that would be argon.
< 1288937723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/0fCyV.png
< 1288937759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ow.
< 1288937836 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288937950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solid helium exists?
< 1288937989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... Yes.
< 1288937998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Just a matter of making it cold enough.
< 1288938025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Helium can form unstable compounds, known as excimers, with tungsten, iodine, fluorine, sulfur and phosphorus when it is subjected to an electric glow discharge, to electron bombardment, or else is a plasma for another reason. The molecular compounds HeNe, HgHe10, and WHe2, and the molecular ions He
< 1288938026 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+
< 1288938026 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2
< 1288938026 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, He
< 1288938026 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2+
< 1288938028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2
< 1288938030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, HeH+, and HeD+ have been created this way.[59]"
< 1288938040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HAHA I NOW HAVE THE DEVELOPMENT TOOLS TOO
< 1288938043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I meant to paste was He tried to solidify it by further reducing the temperature but failed because helium does not have a triple point temperature at which the solid, liquid, and gas phases are at equilibrium. Onnes' student Willem Hendrik Keesom was eventually able to solidify 1 cm3 of helium in 1926.[17]
< 1288938049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So you've downloaded it, right? :P
< 1288938129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Seems that it'll solidify at 2.5MPa and 0.95K.
< 1288938134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am not sure qemu 0.9.0 works with SDL 1.2.
< 1288938145 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, pressure is another variable
< 1288938167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And boil at 4.22K at standard pressure...
< 1288938207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it is 1.2.
< 1288938247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Boiling point: 4.22K" according to Wikipedia...
< 1288938348 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Helium is the least reactive noble gas after neon and thus the second least reactive of all elements"
< 1288938353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_second_ least?
< 1288938360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You are talking like Ilari...
< 1288938402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for pxe-ne2k_pci.bin
< 1288938410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, I don't want that.
< 1288938462 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1288938508 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a balloon filled with neon will rise in air, albeit more slowly than a helium balloon."
< 1288938517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So stop using precious helium for balloons!
< 1288938519 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288938554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Citation on "second least reactive"?
< 1288938586 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lewars, Errol G. (2008). Modelling Marvels . Springer. pp. 7071. ISBN 1402069723.
< 1288938600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://books.google.com/books?id=IoFzgBSSCwEC&pg=PA70&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false
< 1288938610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Got a qemu 0.9.0 bios? :P
< 1288938660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that when I do ctrl+alt+1 from the QEMU console it just... freezes the display at whatever it was and nothing shows up.
< 1288938675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1288938680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems... uncertain
< 1288938688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That book suggests that neon is less reactive, and neon is also a noble gas.
< 1288938721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That book suggests FIX MY QEMU
< 1288938724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*QEMU ;_;
< 1288938731 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone interested in making book scanner?
< 1288938749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did elliott just do a null correct?
< 1288938750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Anyone interested in fixing my QEMU?
< 1288938754 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1288938761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "QEMU " -> "QEMU ;_;"
< 1288938774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I'll scan YOUR book.
< 1288938782 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, thought the tears were in relation to having to make the correction
< 1288938783 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o mai
< 1288938784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired
< 1288938849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: YEAH CONSIDER YOUR BOOK SCANNED
< 1288939058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will pay anyone who creates a 1366x768 series of PNGs or animated GIF or anything that consists of, first, a bunch of N-pixel-blackness separated straight vertical white lines, that then, on the next frame, become slightly diagonal, and then on the next moreso, etc., until they are horizontal, and then they start going \-ways (so | / -- \, except a lot smoother) and continue going around until they are all straight again endless money
< 1288939061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*endless money.
< 1288939064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this should be rather fast.
< 1288939085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously as they rotate to horizontal more should appear on the screen to keep the fill.
< 1288939092 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe tomorrow or something
< 1288939100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It would suffice to create a huge one that doesn't have that, and then crop it in the centre.)
< 1288939103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hmm?
< 1288939103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then agian, I'd have to relearn PIL
< 1288939107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1288939114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might end up just doing it myself :P
< 1288939117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have so much homework
< 1288939121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is to set it as your background and/or screensaver.
< 1288939156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers doing image manipulation for that.. Python Challenge thingy
< 1288939176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Factor is decent at image manipulation
< 1288939213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://www.reddit.com/user/Related_Magic_Card
< 1288939240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't get it
< 1288939248 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets it
< 1288939255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Click "context" on the comments :P
< 1288939269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or permalink.
< 1288939284 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1288939761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/dExFq.jpg
< 1288939815 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roffl
< 1288939829 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odds the border officers just wanted to watch porn?
< 1288939931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Greatest job ever? :P
< 1288940898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO I MADE A NEW ESOLANG
< 1288940899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge/index.php
< 1288940918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (Protection log); 07:15 . . Ais523 (Talk | contribs) (protected "Talk:Befunge/index.php": spambot title [edit=sysop:move=sysop])
< 1288940918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (diff) (hist) . . N Talk:Befunge/index.php; 07:15 . . (+15) . . Ais523 (Talk | contribs) (salt; spambot title, no real legitimate reason to use this unless someone invents a very weirdly named esolang)
< 1288940924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOOPS LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE DID
< 1288941048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess it wasn't actually protected against creation? Or, worse, elliott is an admin?
< 1288941059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Talk:"
< 1288941068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I should totally become an admin now. Mwahahaha.
< 1288941104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And taking a look at the long range forecast, continued snow, darkness, and extreme cold. This is Howard Handupme, goodnight"
< 1288941108 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems.. whoops
< 1288941118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This page has been protected against creation and cannot be created without administrator help; "
< 1288941146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next I'll accidentally paste porn
< 1288941227 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-108.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288941233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "Talk:"
< 1288941261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the talk page has been protected
< 1288941268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why TF would spammers attack a talk page/
< 1288941276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do for some reason.
< 1288941284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it must now be deprotected, to allow for discussion on my language :P
< 1288941618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also added CLC's rename language: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Rename
< 1288942189 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288943383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all
< 1288943544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1288943894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behold my SNAZZY NEW USERPAGE http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird
< 1288943901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML hates me.
< 1288943999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1288944000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288944301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight; bye.
< 1288944303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1288944783 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288946144 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288946288 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
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< 1288948973 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1288950903 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1288951085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288960340 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1288964172 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
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< 1288964977 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1288965215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288965399 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288965592 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1288969096 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-219-194.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288969193 0 :ais523!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288969707 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1288969731 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288970014 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1288973883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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< 1288974947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1288975929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next point of order: test Debian for GPU horribleness.
< 1288975934 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288976198 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I despise stateful webapps
< 1288976256 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288976347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's worth a shot, although I'm not hopeful.
< 1288976449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I disconnect suddenly, you'll know the outcome...
< 1288976476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ?
< 1288976489 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checking if my GPU woes are any better.
< 1288976522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: By the way, the system will become a little less stable after the release of squeeze.
< 1288976529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still perfectly stable, just not as unchanging.
< 1288976573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A few months before the next Debian release, testing goes into a total freeze and stops getting updates (well, apart from security updates and the like). Then, a few months later, it's released as the next Debian. After that, testing thaws and it can be updated regularly again, by packages trickling in from unstable after being tested.)
< 1288976638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, it technically gets updates that are just bug fixes. But no new features or anything.)
< 1288976869 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott did go to sleep at some point, right?
< 1288976882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... think so. I still don't understand my own sleep schedule.
< 1288976883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway.
< 1288976998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing is generally incredibly stable.
< 1288977022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just less so than Stable, which only makes notable changes every year or two.
< 1288977073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oldstable makes changes with the same frequency!
< 1288977074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's even OLDER
< 1288977093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Unfortunately, right now oldstable doesn't exist :P
< 1288977105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They decided to stop offering security updates for etch in January.)
< 1288977113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Seriously?
< 1288977118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1288977119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100121
< 1288977129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think it was part of their "okay, seriously, we need to start updating stable more often" plan.
< 1288977149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But that's shorter than Ubuntu Long Term Support, how PATHETIC! :P
< 1288977163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288977170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The security team tries to support a stable distribution for about one year after the next stable distribution has been released, except when another stable distribution is released within this year. It is not possible to support three distributions; supporting two simultaneously is already difficult enough."
< 1288977176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two stable Debians in a year.
< 1288977177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pffft.
< 1288977206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why *does* Debian have 2 web browsers by default?
< 1288977213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hmm?
< 1288977222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because it ships the entire, default GNOME by default, plus Debian desktop environment extras.
< 1288977242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Debian "gnome" package consists of all the packages that make up GNOME, plus Debian's extras.
< 1288977259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://packages.debian.org/testing/gnome/gnome
< 1288977295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Iceweasel is so named because Mozilla is totalitarian about the name "Firefox", yes?
< 1288977298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So if you see those gnome-* packages, those, plus a few of the dependencies there, make up official GNOME; the rest are Debian inclusions.
< 1288977302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1288977314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Since Debian modify even one byte of Firefox, it must be called something else.
< 1288977330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (It also must use a different logo, despite the logo now being Free as of recently, because it is trademarked.)
< 1288977347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was that you could only call it "Firefox" if your modifications fell within certain conditions?
< 1288977350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Before you ask, Ubuntu get around it because Canonical are corporatist dickwads who have enough money to make deals. :)
< 1288977363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No. Any modification must not be called Firefox, as far as I am aware after looking into this.
< 1288977388 0 :yorick!yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288977405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[For the free software company, see Canonical Ltd..]] — WP
< 1288977409 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah.
< 1288977489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If distributed.
< 1288977497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which is how Gentoo gets away with it.
< 1288977510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait what?
< 1288977510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah; you can compile whatever you want.
< 1288977530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying that distributing source is differentn from distributing binaries?
< 1288977536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: IF YOU DO NOT IMMEDIATELY DISCONTINUE YOUR USE OR AT LEAST OVERUSE OF "WAIT WHAT" I REFUSE TO RESPOND TO ANY MORE QUESTIONS AS YOU ARE DILUTING THE TERM
< 1288977539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Trademark law is a bitch.
< 1288977556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, Gentoo doesn't distribute modified source.
< 1288977579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They distribute patches and the original source, and you *may* apply those patches and get a binary that would be illegal to share with anyone.
< 1288977593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Doctors at the Swedish Medical Center in Seattle wanted to tweet the surgery in order to raise awareness about a new, less invasive method of removing tumors."
< 1288977595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel so reassured
< 1288977606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Or you can tell Gentoo to just turn on the configuration flag that'll make it do a legal release.
< 1288977618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We could have saved your husband as the unexpected complication came up, but we were too busy TWEETING IT."
< 1288977629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'd be ok with it if it was someone not actually doing the surgery, but just watching, who was tweeting
< 1288977645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using the Firefox logo minus the actual fox, and using the code name instead of Firefox for the name of the browser. "firefox" will still execute it.)
< 1288977665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, presumably the watcher would be a doctor, and if a complication came up, they should get involved, so
< 1288977719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, kinda like this, except without the bomb fuse: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Minefield_about.png
< 1288977767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's the bomb fuse doing in the picture?
< 1288977806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a trunk build.
< 1288977812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trunk builds might blow up.
< 1288977848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the Firefox logo for that?
< 1288977861 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to the "clean and legal to modify and redistribute" logo
< 1288977869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N/A...
< 1288977954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah, that's why Shiretoko carefully avoided the term "Firefox".
< 1288978032 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Shiretoko is a Mozilla Foundation project, why do they need to avoid saying "Firefox"?
< 1288978046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, inexplicably, my backlight controls have completely ceased to function.
< 1288978047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Oh
< 1288978052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I get it now
< 1288978060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trunk builds of Firefox are not called Firefox?
< 1288978079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only official releases with the Mozilla Foundation approval.
< 1288978094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, back then I was using Ubuntu's version of it before it had replace Firefox 3.0, so I assume they'd modified it
< 1288978104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mozilla.org/projects/shiretoko/ in Chrome thinks I'm running an early version of Shiretoko
< 1288978236 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, incidentally, is configuration allowed?
< 1288978269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forbidding it outright is stupid, but there's almost certainly a way of getting arbitrary modifications in with it.
< 1288978285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Request approval.
< 1288978358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For configuration?
< 1288978452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For any modifications at all.
< 1288978499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bows to his strict Firefox masters
< 1288978657 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-134.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288978849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1288979373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, uh, Apple are discontinuing Xserves. I wonder why...?
< 1288979390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Apple has put together a "transition guide," advising that users switch over to the Mac Pro or ... the Mac mini"
< 1288979750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, testing GPU reliability again...
< 1288980079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Fun fact: Debian stills offers the latest kernel compiled for the 486. You know, in case you don't have an i686 or better, i.e. Pentium Pro or newer, i.e. any processor since November 1995.
< 1288980087 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288980167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel so stupid for getting rid of that old box; it would have ran BSD or Linux or something.
< 1288980264 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288980274 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch...
< 1288980288 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288980296 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've made a pretty picture
< 1288980299 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7735/budda.png
< 1288980326 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be a Linux problem, then.
< 1288980330 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you didn't, that is a fractal :V
< 1288980358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288980361 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what's the fractal?
< 1288980381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buddhabrot.
< 1288980381 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1288980401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: huh, it seems like a photo somehow or something.
< 1288980404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: The graininess.
< 1288980534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks vaguely Electric Sheep-like.
< 1288980566 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288980642 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1288981213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do iPhones dream of walled-in electric sheep?
< 1288981248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets mode +o ehird
< 1288981255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has kicked Sgeo (Sgeo)
< 1288981273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION accidentally kick-evades
< 1288981325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there are people who'd fall for that
< 1288982671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, Debian used to be *ridiculously* slow to update.
< 1288982698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their last release without Linux 2.2 was made in 2005.
< 1288982713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, first.
< 1288982758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was entirely possible for a Debian user to upgrade from Linux 2.2 to Linux 2.6, entirely skipping 2.4.
< 1288983000 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.4 was LAME anyway.
< 1288983004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1288983014 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This also means people could skip right over devfs and to udev.
< 1288983023 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, y'know, silver lining or something?
< 1288983074 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I especially love that you fake-opped the wrong nick.
< 1288983090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ehird is, uh, the, uh
< 1288983094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets mode +o elliott
< 1288983099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets mode +b Gregor*!*@*
< 1288983103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has kicked Gregor (FUCK YOU)
< 1288983675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's scary that I didn't notice
< 1288983676 0 :iGO!iGO@88.210.105.254.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288983805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises the Debian releases are named after Toy Story characters.
< 1288983828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This distribution is now about 20 times as awesome.
< 1288983834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION experiments on Phantom_Hoover
< 1288983844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You just now realised it?
< 1288983845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And unstable is called sid for a reason...
< 1288983853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It breaks shit.
< 1288983859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my mind is blown.
< 1288983901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sid Dabster
< 1288984583 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288985337 0 :FireyFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288985387 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly
< 1288985643 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288986409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone feel like fixing the snowman on http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird? :P
< 1288986430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's fun.
< 1288986449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IT IS except the snowman is too high.
< 1288986456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you mean my page.
< 1288986458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288986460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UN Human Rights Council is currently reviewing the US's human rights record.
< 1288986486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1288986489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fuck you :p
< 1288986490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:p
< 1288986492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P
< 1288986967 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1288986984 0 :iGO!iGO@88.210.105.254.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288987427 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1288987504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288987566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: wget failed to download http://people.debian.org/~bartm/flashplugin-nonfree/fp10.sha512.amd64.pgp.asc
< 1288987566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More information might be available at:
< 1288987566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer
< 1288987566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1288987591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The package in unstable http://packages.debian.org/sid/flashplugin-nonfree is suitable for Lenny (stable) and Squeeze (testing).
< 1288987592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1288987595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On amd64 the 64 bit preview release 10.2.161.23 is installed."
< 1288987596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome!
< 1288987802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can you listen to videos in a different tab?
< 1288987864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what was the name of that Swedish kernel.org mirror?
< 1288987883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can get it in Software Sources.
< 1288987887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to edit sources.list directly.
< 1288987896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Select Best Server" button?
< 1288987898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I'd tend to avoid out of fear anyway).
< 1288987900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anyway.)
< 1288987904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, that selects a crappy one.
< 1288987906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's based on ping time.
< 1288987911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Select "Other..."
< 1288987913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in SE.
< 1288987914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, how stupid.
< 1288987919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure you select http, not ftp.
< 1288987932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last one in SE, in fact.
< 1288987966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you determine it's fastest?
< 1288988081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff that needs to die: Wubi.
< 1288988111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I didn't determine it's *the* fastest, but I've tried various servers in my time and Swedish ones are the fastest.
< 1288988125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good infrastructure?
< 1288988126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And kernel.org servers have a phat pipe and are also really reliable, of course.
< 1288988131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Who knows? Probably.
< 1288988169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It maxes out my connection, at least.
< 1288988243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too.
< 1288988260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purely out of curiosity, what ISP are you on?
< 1288988298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Uh, Orange. I heavily recommend against them.
< 1288988304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And heavily endorse http://www.bogons.net/.
< 1288988313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strongly, I guess, not heavily. Whatever.
< 1288988508 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288988536 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ADSL is... slower than cable modem?
< 1288988555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Well, uh, yes, can't get cable here. And all the cable ISPs suck major ass.
< 1288988558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1288988568 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true.
< 1288988583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Besides, ADSL2+++++++++++++ gets all 24 megs and whatnot!
< 1288988592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: And if you want more than that, get fibre optic, you lazy bum.
< 1288988603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: (Note: Bogons' ADSL2+ service is hideously expensive.)
< 1288988608 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By doing a little roadworking?
< 1288988611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's part of the business services.
< 1288988612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Yes.
< 1288988620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dig up the petunias.
< 1288988641 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe I can just tunnel under the street for a short distance.
< 1288988699 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The network definitely runs through Edinburgh.
< 1288988706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. :P
< 1288988747 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure to what degree my ISP uses it, though.
< 1288988766 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, indeed, whether I have it.
< 1288988801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: It is unlikely that there is fibre optic on your street. :P
< 1288988806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, under.
< 1288988810 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought so.
< 1288988827 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't have a construction company handy.
< 1288988941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you buy minecraft?
< 1288988951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not yet! I'm not sure Java will like it.
< 1288988960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As soon as I verify that it will I will.
< 1288988997 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not like it in what way?
< 1288989006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Stuttery audio, graphics performance.
< 1288989018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had to set the fog to the second-nearest setting in Classic to get acceptable performance.)
< 1288989033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being an applet is probably partly to blame, and I imagine Alpha's code is more solid, but still.
< 1288989065 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so there was this news story i wanted you to complain about but you werent here so you couldnt then i forgot what the news story was
< 1288989093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and the sky the sky it is made of red hot lava and it fell down from the sky onto the floor and we all slept but it was really actually dying not sleeping because the lava burned us to death
< 1288989113 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Further investigation implies that I might actually have a fiber-optic cable under my street.
< 1288989113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two bad things
< 1288989123 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, suggests.
< 1288989124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thanks
< 1288989132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ...thanks?
< 1288989132 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1288989141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: You get to choose between: (1) BT (2) Virgin Media. Well, at least if the situation is the same as in England.
< 1288989143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well... I found an old version of alpha at a certain bay (and a link to the linux version in a comment), on my desktop it works as long as I set "fast graphics". But that is nvidia and emu10k...
< 1288989150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I am on (2).
< 1288989151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Probably the two worst ISPs.
< 1288989157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You really don't want to be on Virgin.
< 1288989162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously.
< 1288989167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, but my say in the matter is limited.
< 1288989189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: For instance, their CEO has called net neutrality "a load of bollocks".
< 1288989202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm no great fan.
< 1288989205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and he's promised to put any website or service that won't pay Virgin a premium to reach its customers into the "Internet bus lane."" (-- boing boing, but still)
< 1288989207 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have most isps all they want is monies
< 1288989207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it does NOT work well on the pentium-m dell with pre-HD audio. Well sound works fine. But 3-5 FPS is not so fun
< 1288989213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not in the UK.
< 1288989218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also coppro has lost his shift key
< 1288989228 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i just decided punctuation is bad today
< 1288989236 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to save it all for the code party later
< 1288989236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1288989239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, I'll try it out. That... Warzone somethingsomething game worked smoothly at full resolution; Minecraft can't be more complex than that, right?!>?!?!!
< 1288989245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: capitals arent punctuation
< 1288989247 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am disappointed i have to use a slash to change windows
< 1288989250 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they count
< 1288989276 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like I said, I have absolutely no say in the matter.
< 1288989300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your MO--
< 1288989329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh yeah, and they tested Phorm without telling anyone.
< 1288989335 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well who knows. Want the direct link to the linux one linked?
< 1288989342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure, I was about to search but sure :P
< 1288989358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1288989380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, and if you're not quite hardcore enough for Bogons I recommend BE.
< 1288989383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know you have no say.)
< 1288989404 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'll be an impoverished student soon enough.
< 1288989426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that, given a COBOL program that reads a file, you can say things about the file's structure that you can't with most languages
< 1288989458 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it is sufficiently simple to be read by a cobol program maybe
< 1288989472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you are cooler without caps
< 1288989480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, god, Sgeo. Please don't fall in love with COBOL.
< 1288989482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. To try and get a second computer running or not...
< 1288989489 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im also being more banjooie today
< 1288989498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus points for working out what it means
< 1288989499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL has to predeclare the structure of files, right?
< 1288989516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it might be a good language to learn for career-ness
< 1288989528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems interesting
< 1288989529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLARGH
< 1288989535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON
< 1288989538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1288989550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say "good", did I?
< 1288989554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just.. interesting
< 1288989556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL. It was outdated when you were BORN.
< 1288989565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I HOPE SPIKES RAPE YOUR BEING
< 1288989568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Places stil use COBOL, don't they?
< 1288989569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO, WASPS
< 1288989575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Places still use *horrible, horrible* COBOL.
< 1288989584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND OF COURSE IT DENIES THE EXISTENCE OF THE LOWER-CASE LETTER.
< 1288989598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I thought it was case-insensitive
< 1288989623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGEO, IT'S STILL ALL-CAPS.
< 1288989636 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPIKES SPIKES SPIKES OH GOD THE SPIKES
< 1288989642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a convention?
< 1288989738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what are the flatulences
< 1288989743 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mathnews
< 1288989756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: SO HOW'Z MY ARTICLE DOING
< 1288989815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many words
< 1288989819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So verbose
< 1288990040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: NOT AS A CONVENTION. IT PREDATES LOWER-CASE LETTERS.
< 1288990089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a 2002 standard
< 1288990099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I bother with it, or does it ruin the historicalness
< 1288990196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abacabb
< 1288990382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, OLDER THAN I THOUGHT, THEN.
< 1288990403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS "COBOL" EVEN A VALID LATINY WORD?
< 1288990414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE ENDING SEEMS UNNATURAL.
< 1288990445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: COBOL IS ONLY WORTH LEARNING IF YOU WANT TO KEEP ABSURDLY OLD SYSTEMS RUNNING.
< 1288990454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGEO: AKA, YOU WISH TO NO LONGER HAVE A SOUL.
< 1288990469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some young people have to learn COBOL eventually
< 1288990485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SOME YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE TO LEARN COBOL EVENTUALLY
< 1288990536 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.paet
< 1288990559 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:05 < Phantom_Hoover_> nooga, what's the fractal?
< 1288990566 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mandelbrot
< 1288990576 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rendered in abuddhabrot way
< 1288990587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, OK, what rendering algorithm?
< 1288990602 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhabrot
< 1288990606 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty simple
< 1288990618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, WHY IS COBOL IN ENGLISH, NOT LATIN, IF IT PREDATES LOWER-CASE?
< 1288990633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: IT PREDATES ENCODING OF LOWER-CASE ON COMPUTERS.
< 1288990641 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm attempting to render it using a little cluster that i've built
< 1288990651 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say 500Mpix
< 1288990652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT EX HINT:
< 1288990652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(THE DESIGNERS COULD NOT THINK OF A CLEVER LEGEND OF ZELDA HINT)
< 1288990659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: can I use your cluster for shit
< 1288990681 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because macines belong to my university
< 1288990683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If young people don't learn COBOL, then it will finally die.
< 1288990685 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machines
< 1288990692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: SO?
< 1288990702 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about all the code that needs to be maintained
< 1288990708 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nobody can access it from the outside
< 1288990710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those businesses supposed to just die?
< 1288990719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is the worst person in the world
< 1288990721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least, have business logic transferred to a different language
< 1288990726 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even i have to go to the uni to use it
< 1288990730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone needs to be able to read it, at least
< 1288990736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do these businesses still use 50 year old everything else?
< 1288990761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, imagine IE 6 in 50 years
< 1288990771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Some things become obsolete. Businesses should deal with it.
< 1288990778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And COBOL was obsolete 30 years ago.
< 1288990782 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, so the algorithm is to increment a pixel based on how many paths that end in the set go through it?
< 1288990792 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1288990814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, exactly, is there a 2002 standard? Not claiming COBOL isn't obsolete, I'm just curious
< 1288990828 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the color is obtained by rendering with different bailout values separately for R,G and B and mixing the channels
< 1288990844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because some morons felt like trying to make it not obsolete by adding the latest buzzwords.
< 1288990870 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty but i doubt it has some interesting properties
< 1288990873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It supports XML and OOP.
< 1288990921 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vomits a little.
< 1288990990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the COBOL spec broke backwards compatibility with what was used for really old systems back in '85...
< 1288991015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning that you would need to rewrite things just to use a modern COBOL implementation.
< 1288991017 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand
< 1288991028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At which point you might as well use a better language, like any language newer than it.
< 1288991031 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you've known COBOL in the old years
< 1288991042 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were like a god
< 1288991069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, dear God the fucking language was designed by Grace Hopper. That's fucking *old*.
< 1288991084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any modern COBOL implementations use a pre-85 spec?
< 1288991097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you may know Grace Hopper for inventing the programming language.)
< 1288991138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Xmarks is back?
< 1288991162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not really, but IBM mainframes retain binary compatibility.
< 1288991208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much do mainframes cost these days? I mean, they're obsoleteish, right? My notebook's much more powerful? So surely, they're cheap?
< 1288991219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still make them.
< 1288991261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, but how much do they cost?
< 1288991284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather a lot.
< 1288991315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can run several thousand Linux VMs at once.
< 1288991388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, please stop doing such awful things to interrogative statements.
< 1288991397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sentences
< 1288991413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next, you'll want me to stop verbing nouns?
< 1288991601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, and if you want to run *really* old mainframe programs, you could reasonably do it for no cost. Some of the older versions of the OS for them are public domain or free of charge.
< 1288991627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some crazy bastards wrote an emulator.
< 1288991644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was about to ask.. well, I wasn't, because it sounded like a stupid question
< 1288991727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote How much do mainframes cost these days? I mean, they're obsoleteish, right? My notebook's much more powerful? So surely, they're cheap?
< 1288991741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Was about to ask.. well, I wasn't, because it sounded like a stupid question
< 1288991744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when does that stop you?
< 1288991755 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :253| How much do mainframes cost these days? I mean, they're obsoleteish, right? My notebook's much more powerful? So surely, they're cheap?
< 1288991798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much would a 70s era mainframe cost today?
< 1288991799 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLOW-MATIC
< 1288991820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Defining Files in advance, and separating into INPUT and OUTPUT files."
< 1288991830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think that that's arguably a nice feature of COBOL
< 1288991853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Probably quite a lot, due to being a museum piece.
< 1288991894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, how much would one of the early widespread-use mainframes cost today/
< 1288992045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you mean in terms of net power?
< 1288992103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In terms of purchasing a physical machine, although sure, net power too
< 1288992110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, seems a few thousand dollars.
< 1288992131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There really weren't that many of them made, y'know.
< 1288992153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When were there many mainframes being made?
< 1288992158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, in terms of net power, all of £0.00 (that's $0.00).
< 1288992160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did the Pope shit in the woods?
< 1288992165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did a bear convert to Catholicism?
< 1288992173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did Sgeo stop asking incessant questions without Googling first?
< 1288992192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I believe that £0.00 = $79.44.
< 1288992192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At about the same time that it seemed like a good idea to scrap the damned things for their metal when replaced.
< 1288992206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, yes, screwed up economy.
< 1288992252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems a system 390 is going to be the oldest machine you can find working. And that's a few thousand bucks.
< 1288992399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The system 390s are also going to be the oldest machines that you could actually get working without creating a well air-conditioned room and having an electrician come in to install a three-phase power hookup.
< 1288992621 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up specs
< 1288992638 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cringes.
< 1288992640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_ESA/390 ?
< 1288992646 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That says 1990
< 1288992809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, get an emulator. It'll run way faster and be much easier.
< 1288992827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not allowed to be curious about old machines?
< 1288992848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Althogh yeah, I was fantasizing about buying something, but I have many fantasizes
< 1288992854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fantasies
< 1288992895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, for everyone's sanity, go no further down that road.
< 1288992989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, go no further down the road of describing my fantasies?
< 1288993003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For god's sake, yes.
< 1288993004 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288993863 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I found a paper describing CAs on spherical topologies.
< 1288993921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Grab Hercules and install Debian on it.
< 1288993943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hercules?
< 1288993957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the emulator.
< 1288993969 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo i tried to buy Odra
< 1288993992 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odra_(computer)
< 1288994007 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odra 1305 with 2 processors and stuff
< 1288994024 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one was decommisioned in June this year
< 1288994035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :390?
< 1288994051 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wanted to get rid of it and probably throw it away
< 1288994066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, do you just live in your own little bubble?
< 1288994070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1288994086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought someone said 360
< 1288994094 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hercules says 390
< 1288994101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, 370
< 1288994109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: New hobby: Emulators + Debian.
< 1288994110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 390 is another thing it can emulate.. I think
< 1288994111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I am steadily convincing myself that an invasion is ongoing outside my house.
< 1288994135 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on
< 1288994140 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :390 is too new
< 1288994161 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does System/370 as well.
< 1288994190 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z/Linux should be working fine
< 1288994230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for the list of old debian releases
< 1288994238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apparently buzz is not nearly the oldest Debian.
< 1288994245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I wonder if that's the first one to use Toy Story release names?
< 1288994296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"starting at version 1.1, debian releases have been named after a character in the movie Toy Story, a trend which continues to the present"
< 1288994324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, buzz is 1.1.
< 1288994329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently there are older releases.
< 1288994451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should email oerjan.
< 1288994470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hercules emulates a Series z mainframe.
< 1288994502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Which is of course compatible all the way back to System/360.
< 1288994579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sent an email to oerjan.
< 1288994636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Attenborough is on.
< 1288994663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ought to fix http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird :P
< 1288994711 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote no so many times.
< 1288994755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You just don't appreciate the AWESOME.
< 1288994773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All it needs is a spacing fix for the snowman!
< 1288994800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 554 554 : Recipient address rejected: User account has expired (state 14).
< 1288994814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, *now* I'm worrying.
< 1288994978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the recipient domain?
< 1288995004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: A server -- I think the computer science club -- of his (ex-)university.
< 1288995039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nvg.org/
< 1288995129 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we know what causes accounts to expire on that server?
< 1288995142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. He got his Ph.D. many years ago, so it's not that he's left or anything.
< 1288995160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could email someone there to ask
< 1288995162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will see if I can email NVG.
< 1288995340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've sent an email to their support.
< 1288995527 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :herp derp
< 1288995570 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have oerjan's email?
< 1288995600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/%C3%98rjan_Johansen -> http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ (which I knew) -> http://oerjan.nvg.org/ -> oerjan@nvg.ntnu.no
< 1288995606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, as I said, expired.
< 1288995634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://nvg.org/index.php%3Flink%3Domnvg%26sublink%3Dkontakt&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhjR_3qM6CRengj-UdptFmksQE5RVQ I don't know if support@nvg.ntnu.no was the right one to pick out of all those emails (I only saw support and drift on the other page I got it from), but I'm sure they can forward it on if required.
< 1288995726 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, goodbye horses is a really nice song
< 1288995736 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from silence of the lambs)
< 1288995757 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, and 'lambs' almost became 'lambdas' there
< 1288995928 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my student e-mail is also expired since a couple of years back
< 1288995947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: still. he used it up to present i think
< 1288995950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he's ooooooooold :)
< 1288996067 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you only say that because you're YOOOOUUUNG :P
< 1288996161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: he's like 38! 39!
< 1288996162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NOBODY OLDER
< 1288996172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you're uhh, i guessed it right before
< 1288996172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24?
< 1288996177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEE HE'S EVEN OLDER THAN YOU
< 1288996177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OLDIE
< 1288996184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My logic, it is infallible.
< 1288996202 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he 38? REALLY!?
< 1288996207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1288996220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: SEE EVEN YOU AGREE NOW
< 1288996221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooold
< 1288996233 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that is much too old for comfort
< 1288996243 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :older than cpressey?
< 1288996245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't say he was old you'd become that old yourself
< 1288996253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: we don't know cpressey's age for sure :P
< 1288996295 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that in public records somewhere?
< 1288996297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: we know he was in his teens in the 80s and ran some BBSes in... I think he gave some year range... when he was 16 and I'm starting to realise that a good memory ends up making you look like a stalker
< 1288996315 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in sweden you can look up people's birth dates from names
< 1288996320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is AMERICA
< 1288996322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're FREEDOM
< 1288996331 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he's AMERICAN
< 1288996335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he's canadian i think
< 1288996337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he's in america
< 1288996338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno
< 1288996354 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :canada is in america, duh
< 1288996373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is a stalker?
< 1288996381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to erase his name from elliott's memory
< 1288996391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed Seth Gold
< 1288996397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but not in the united states of :P
< 1288996485 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is suddenly struck by the feeling of having something extremely relevant to say
< 1288996491 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember what though :/
< 1288996524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: fgsfds
< 1288996538 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right.
< 1288996561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, I've discovered something.
< 1288996571 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starch and cheese: good combination
< 1288996571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO THAT ALL DAY
< 1288996574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The US release of Monty Python's Flying Circus had *really* shitty video quality.
< 1288996590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your face has really shitty video quality.
< 1288996595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Stcheese
< 1288996602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like they used a VHS tape for the source material or something.
< 1288996605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY DID
< 1288996607 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or mac-n-cheese
< 1288996614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: charch
< 1288996632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PAL release looks quite a bit better.
< 1288996902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's especially "fun" is that the US release actually did a 25i->30i conversion for portions that were originally done 24p. Really. It's 24p->25i->30i converted.
< 1288996926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genius
< 1288997187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it?
< 1288997224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: - is punctuation
< 1288997484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Wikipedia romanises スーパー・ヴィエイチエス as Sūpāvu~ieichiesu. Which is pronounced as something like "Sūpā vi eichi esu". Non-standard kana seems to really fuck up their ideas of romanisation.
< 1288997817 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288997819 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288997847 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288997847 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288997861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd romanise it as sûhą̂ ùīeitiesu, and god was it a pain trying to just get the appropriate combining character for that)
< 1288997877 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288997877 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288997907 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288997907 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288997932 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288997932 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288997961 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288997961 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288997981 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1288997987 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288997987 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998014 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998014 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998037 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eh, but 'h' in suha? or did you intend some of the combining characters to indicate the plosive variant?
< 1288998042 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998042 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998068 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998069 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998097 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998098 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The ogonek or cedilla indicates the plosive variant.
< 1288998127 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998129 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998137 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's on the a?
< 1288998155 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998155 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the dakuten and handakuten in my romanisation go on the vowel.
< 1288998181 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998181 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998187 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok
< 1288998188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :oerjan missing; PANIC | *cringe* record: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1288998206 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998206 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998235 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998235 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998236 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus allowing it to work just the same when it's applied to a consonantless kana in a non-standard usage of kana.
< 1288998236 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sebbu is running in circles, clearly devoted to the panic in the topic
< 1288998263 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, can you have han/dakuten on such kana?
< 1288998264 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998264 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998271 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that get pronounced?
< 1288998291 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998291 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ヴ is usually used to indicate "V" in transcriptions.
< 1288998317 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998318 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ヴァヴィヴヴェヴォ for the "va vi vu ve vo" morae.
< 1288998344 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I seem to be missing the fonts
< 1288998347 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998347 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998361 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably due to elliott telling me to uninstall my fonts because there were better fonts
< 1288998376 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998376 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998405 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998406 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also handles the kana usage in non-Japanese languages...
< 1288998436 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998437 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1288998438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was oerjan's last action?
< 1288998447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: uh, quitting
< 1288998457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OK, seriously.
< 1288998457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before that just saying something, nothing pertinent
< 1288998467 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288998474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.21:20:18:59 sheesh, fission does not release energy for elements < iron, pikhq
< 1288998474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.21:20:25:24 well more or less.
< 1288998474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.21:20:26:36 although the "helium mines" _was_ a joke
< 1288998474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.21:20:46:20 catseye: which might be why it's wrong
< 1288998483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1288998486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if his email account is gone
< 1288998488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then his shell account will be too
< 1288998491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's how he accessed irc
< 1288998495 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he ran off trying to set up a helium mine?
< 1288998496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could just be a server thing
< 1288998514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he came in on the 22nd too but just join and then quit
< 1288998521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an hour and a bit apart
< 1288998529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.22:07:18:00 --- quit: oerjan (Quit: leaving)
< 1288998529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.23:14:15:04 I'm surprised oerjan hasn't cracked down on them.
< 1288998536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned him first after that :P
< 1288998558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, "アイヌ・イタㇰ" can be romanised as "ainu itak̅u", but can't be encoded at all in any other romanisation scheme that I know of...
< 1288998562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that explains why he hadn't cracked down on them.
< 1288998571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's been 15 days since he talked
< 1288998589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What about YOURS
< 1288998597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, except for an Ainu-specific scheme based on pronunciation)
< 1288998610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "ainu itak̅u" in my scheme.
< 1288998615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1288998625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ainu language" in Ainu.
< 1288998695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ainu is a non-Japonic language, but happens to be native to the island of Hokkaidō, hence the kana orthography)
< 1288998838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how does your romanisation work?
< 1288998928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: For the gojuuon (your standard kana chart), I use the "ordinary" romanisation.
< 1288999020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A grave on the vowel is a dakuten (the voiced consonant diacritic). A cedilla or ogonek on the vowel is a handakuten (the plosive consonant diacritic). A macron on the start of the kana indicates that it's small. A circumflex on the vowel indicates that it's long.
< 1288999048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ' is a shorthand for t̅u.
< 1288999061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh. One other thing. The moraic n is romanised as "nn".
< 1288999064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all.
< 1288999094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, damn you, I'm now trying to install Debian 5.something on Hercules.
< 1288999105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Good luck :P
< 1288999116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically, it's a highly pedantic encoding of kana.
< 1288999118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm failing utterly.
< 1288999128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Try an older Debian.
< 1288999144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I could *get* the image, that would be a start.
< 1288999163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *ISO
< 1288999165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Debian still supports System z.
< 1288999166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ?
< 1288999170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: To this day.
< 1288999171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What problem are you having?
< 1288999174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The ports can bitrot sometimes.
< 1288999181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1288999183 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no netinst, so I need the CD, and I'm lazy.
< 1288999191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, not really.
< 1288999196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Uhh, Debian is like 40 CDs.
< 1288999198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need netinst :P
< 1288999217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1288999218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.6/s390/iso-cd/
< 1288999220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, three CDs.
< 1288999220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still.
< 1288999224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lol @ kde and xfce/lxde CDs)
< 1288999234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A package failing on a port in unstable prevents it from going to testing on *any* port.
< 1288999237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, but *there is no netinst for s390*.
< 1288999251 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, fillers :/
< 1288999260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Assuming, of course, the package is set to build for that.
< 1288999261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh :P
< 1288999284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, but that doesn't mean the whole system will actually install and run properly or anything. :P
< 1288999298 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll just have to stop watching this shite and wait another year for episodes with contents again
< 1288999312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, the System z port is actually used.
< 1288999334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair 'nuff
< 1288999338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thousands of VMs at once, hells yeah.
< 1288999345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: lawl
< 1288999358 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, I know...
< 1288999422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, episodes of what?
< 1288999471 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: naruto shippuuden
< 1288999516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed just from the excessive filler :P
< 1288999517 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1288999551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm, which files do I actually download for Debian s390?
< 1288999563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] debian-506-s390-CD-1.iso 05-Sep-2010 02:59 648M
< 1288999563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] debian-506-s390-CD-2.iso 05-Sep-2010 02:59 638M
< 1288999563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] debian-506-s390-CD-3.iso 05-Sep-2010 02:59 648M
< 1288999564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.6/s390/iso-cd/
< 1288999569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need the update discs.
< 1288999576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the alternative desktop environments.
< 1288999581 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually think it's good, but only if you skip the fillers because the fillers really suck
< 1288999948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose a project to create a portable, 8-bit MMU-less Unix clone.
< 1288999960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Linux and NetBSD did for everything else, we shall do for the 80s!
< 1288999989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LUnix? Move over! 8-bit Atari? YOU'RE GONNA GET SOME FUCKIN' UNIX
< 1289000000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC MICRO? No fuck that.
< 1289000003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay fine.)
< 1289000156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly it should be written in (C--)--, aka C -= 2.
< 1289000191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conveniently, C-= sort of looks like the Commodore logo.
< 1289000458 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1289000506 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I write a program GF-Magick to use METAFONT with ImageMagick.
< 1289000525 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like red and green show on television?
< 1289001335 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228060005.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289001952 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMU-less units are the best!
< 1289001966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: duct tape forever!
< 1289001997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: PUNCTUATION
< 1289001999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: precisely!
< 1289002010 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott never
< 1289002011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: hey what was that computer you built? 8086?
< 1289002013 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code party is starting
< 1289002015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ":", "!"
< 1289002017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that was punctuation
< 1289002021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so was "-" in agora email you are BAD
< 1289002022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think i used punctuation you are committing treason
< 1289002027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1289002031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :against the queen?
< 1289002034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no against the computer
< 1289002035 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your friend
< 1289002037 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer
< 1289002051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: dude talk like this all the time, you're so much cooler
< 1289002064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you citizen
< 1289002095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, got the first Debian s390 CD.
< 1289002107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your lack of treason is appreciated by the computer
< 1289002122 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might receive increased security clearance if you keep it up
< 1289002123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Now get the other two. :P
< 1289002132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: punctuation is for FAGS
< 1289002134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'd inferred that.
< 1289002145 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott are they commie mutant traitor fags?
< 1289002156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes. also, bedwetting
< 1289002178 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott thank you for reporting the fags for treason you are now red security clearance
< 1289002183 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are now a troubleshooter
< 1289002279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga is ashamed of his creation
< 1289002313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it rose against him as soon as you mentioned it.
< 1289002693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lawl, debian is still on firefox^Wiceweasel 3.5
< 1289002713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm shocked and appalled.
< 1289002929 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1289003440 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289003500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why is testing on 3.5‽
< 1289003516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Came out several months before the freeze.
< 1289003586 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289003644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dunno.
< 1289003709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You may have more fun with the MIPS port; qemu's MIPS emulator works, although it was better in 0.10 or whatever.
< 1289003719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, it's a Microsoft Jazz.
< 1289003724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you resist such a platform?
< 1289003747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, S. 3. 9. 0.
< 1289003787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you support my portable 8-bit MMUless Unix project idea? Y/N
< 1289003801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Y, but I don't want to work on it. :P
< 1289003810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But 6502 asm! Everyone loves that!
< 1289003843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289003853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The S390 killed Phantom_Hoover.
< 1289003917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And hey, we get to use our OWN LANGUAGE! Because the C compilers are all heavily machine-specific and the like. :P
< 1289004136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can VICE do a serial cable?
< 1289004233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Lunix can do Atari too.
< 1289004902 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INSTALLING DEBIAN ON CHIPAD
< 1289004908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOOO
< 1289005080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (1) Why did you buy that (2) Can I have it
< 1289005113 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) A friend of mine bought it because he's an idiot, I bought it off of him for $50 because I'm an idiot, but only half as much an idiot as he is by pricE :P
< 1289005120 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) If you buy it for at least $25 + shipping :P
< 1289005163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things you don't expect to see on a Commodore 64: "EXTRACTING CD.HTML (OK)"
< 1289005169 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1289005301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I swear, the developer of LUnix, upon thinking "I need to document my Commodore 64 Unix clone", thought immediately after, "in HTML".
< 1289005320 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right.
< 1289005327 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 8088
< 1289005333 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not ashamed
< 1289005339 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just afk ;p
< 1289005353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: It's 16-bit, you motherfucker. How can you pledge allegiance to the RETROMACHINES?
< 1289005359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So is it... any good? :P
< 1289005367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh great, kernel panic. All that extraction for nothing.
< 1289005371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1289005374 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The problems are all really stupid problems.
< 1289005376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have just put it into warp mode.
< 1289005381 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a bit slow, but quite usable if you don't do too much at once.
< 1289005384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That ... says nothing.
< 1289005390 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm continuing :P
< 1289005396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is it resistive or capacitive?
< 1289005407 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resistive, of course. We're talking about a $100 tablet here X-D
< 1289005412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BAH
< 1289005416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Stylus? :P
< 1289005421 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? Finger.
< 1289005431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Please tell me it was a bitch to get Debian on.
< 1289005442 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET ME FINISH TELLING ITS FLAWS GEEZE :P
< 1289005444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You see, it was on the Ubisurfer, and I just don't want an inferior experience.
< 1289005450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY OKAY OKAY
< 1289005463 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The real problems are: 1) The rotation sensor is pretty bad, it likes to hang in landscape mode, 2) IT HAS NO FREAKING OFF BUTTON X_X
< 1289005473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs an off button
< 1289005479 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean even a screen-off button.
< 1289005480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It seems, uh, rather low resolution :P
< 1289005489 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You don't even know what device I'm referring to :P
< 1289005496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.maxconsole.net/showthread.php?152867-China-launches-Linux-based-Chi-pad
< 1289005516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Calibrating delay loop.. 0.37 BogoMIPS"
< 1289005521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMODORE 64 REPRESENT
< 1289005531 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 1) No, that one's more expensive and better than the one I have :P
< 1289005549 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 2) For 7-inch, 800xwhatever isn't too bad.
< 1289005562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yours is *worse* than that? :D
< 1289005567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What RAM?
< 1289005567 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup 8-D
< 1289005592 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128MB DDR2
< 1289005611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Disk?
< 1289005617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how much is shipping to the UK from there?
< 1289005622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually considering buying it from you :P
< 1289005634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I, too, am an idiot.
< 1289005643 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what the shipping would be. It has 1GB internal, I have a 2GB SD card I'd throw in :P
< 1289005658 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This screen is 800x480 btw.
< 1289005672 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a sec, I can link this actual device :P
< 1289005700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should learn A*. What it is, how to use it
< 1289005706 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.42071
< 1289005725 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bizarrely, the feature list is all correct on that page.
< 1289005788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow, this looks beyond awful :P
< 1289005796 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S BEYOND AWESOME(ly awful)
< 1289005804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you actually going to use it?
< 1289005813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I don't cruelly snatch it away.
< 1289005833 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I bought it months ago, and I've only used it to surf the web in bed and now to see if I can install Debian on it :P
< 1289005836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I consider the device broken if it doesn't ship with whatever fucked up modified Android it came with, btw :P
< 1289005854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET YOUR RESET ... USB ... STICK ...
< 1289005855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... OUT
< 1289005857 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh, of course it ships with Android ...
< 1289005866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But you're putting Debian on.
< 1289005867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a FIEND
< 1289005877 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm putting Debian on a chroot :P
< 1289005887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh. That's what I did with the Ubisurfer!
< 1289005896 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THAR YA GO
< 1289005903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude, I'll totally get my Ubisurfer repaired (I, uh, bricked it) and we can TRADE.
< 1289005907 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an identical Debian install on my phone :P
< 1289005919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You give me your tablet, I give you a £129 (or in that region) ARM-based netbook! It has a KEYBOARD!
< 1289005921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs ICEWM!
< 1289005933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And it comes with the worst browser in the world and no don't argue.
< 1289005955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It communicates, via GPRS, to one of their servers, which renders the page, with IE (yup, Windows-running IE farms), and sends back a compressed image of the result.
< 1289005970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Input fields and links are handled with something like an olde-style image map, I would assume.
< 1289005978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (It also comes with Firefox)
< 1289006020 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wow
< 1289006112 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read most of TeX: The Program, already.
< 1289006117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did you?)
< 1289006130 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289006136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott... why?
< 1289006231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because Firefox only works on Wi-Fi and this is meant to be FREE FOREVER.
< 1289006235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I know, right?
< 1289006245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How can you pass up the chance to get a hold of it?
< 1289006257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird definition of polynomial time: It has an nth derivative that = 0
< 1289006269 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woooh, Debian installed!
< 1289006275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, "time for weird definition", not definition of "polynomial time"
< 1289006278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, and wanna know the OS? Android? NO
< 1289006281 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs ... hmm ... icewm?
< 1289006290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's what I like to call Bastebian.
< 1289006294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Bastard Debian.
< 1289006319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They took Debian, installed their software, hacked it up in numerous to work with their hardware, gave it a /linuxrc-based bootloader, and then took out all of what makes Debian, Debian.
< 1289006328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This includes dpkg.
< 1289006356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What I am saying is: Dude, trade.
< 1289006380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would Firefox only work with Wifi
< 1289006387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes no sense whatsoever
< 1289006398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because the only other thing it has his GPRS.
< 1289006403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is only to their IE-servers.
< 1289006410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has is
< 1289006414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: TRADE Y/N
< 1289006424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....why only to their IE-servers?
< 1289006436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it part of some weird agreement or something?
< 1289006439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's how they wanted it.
< 1289006445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blibbers
< 1289006461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : STOP MAKING UP WORDS AND SOUNDING LIKE A CREATURE
< 1289006641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wow, Debian GNU/Hurd is about as old as apt.
< 1289006649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should install a tiling WM, just for the sheer insanity.
< 1289006653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Note: You may want a mouse-based tiling WM)
< 1289006660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ((Note: Nobody's created one yet))
< 1289006715 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm well aware of that.
< 1289006718 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having searched for one before.
< 1289006756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Funny, because I have the perfect design for one, YOU SHOULD IMPLEMENT IT[shot]
< 1289006905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRITE IT IN COBOL
< 1289006909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1289006973 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does COBOL even have functions for that purpose? I think COBOL is only for common business computations.
< 1289007126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISPLAY TEXT-OUT
< 1289007132 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is that missing a .
< 1289007138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://404i.com/cobol/basics.html
< 1289007169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Huh, so it is.
< 1289007181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's weird to think that apt is actually relatively young.
< 1289007188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "relatively"
< 1289007192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Like mid-90s, no? :P
< 1289007230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm, 1999.
< 1289007239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mere 10 years.
< 1289007240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSELECT AM I RIGHT
< 1289007245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOOOOOOOOO DSELECT
< 1289007248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*God* dselect sucks.
< 1289007280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo aptitude install dselect
< 1289007281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah
< 1289007353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://404i.com/cobol/4div-c.html
< 1289007359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This looks very... inflexible
< 1289007376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SHOULD KEEP CAPS-LOCK ON WHEN TALKING ABOUT COBOL, REALLY
< 1289007382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So are you up for a trade or not? :P
< 1289007390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This device is ONLY available inside the UK, I think.
< 1289007393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, y'know, RARITY.
< 1289007401 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no trade :P
< 1289007432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS ZERO A KEYWORD?
< 1289007435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHY NOT
< 1289007445 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What WM should I use?
< 1289007453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ice?
< 1289007455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: dwm? Maybe not :P
< 1289007462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 9wm!
< 1289007463 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Write your own WM, then
< 1289007464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go for 9wm.
< 1289007465 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want something that's borderline-usable, but light :P
< 1289007478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 9wm, aewm, or wm2/wmx.
< 1289007482 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Maybe so you don't get mixed up with "O"?
< 1289007483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Those are your three (well, four) choices.
< 1289007496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wm2 would be nice with the widescreen. aewm would be like 9wm but with a title bar.
< 1289007500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9wm would be hard core.
< 1289007529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Although 9wm and aewm are both heavily dependent on middle/right clicks.
< 1289007533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So go for wm2/wmx.
< 1289007547 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desktop-click menu, yes?
< 1289007566 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, no maximize button in wm{2,x}?
< 1289007579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SGEO
< 1289007584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: None in wm2. Dunno about wmx.
< 1289007585 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION GIVES UP ON THIS PARTICULAR TUTORIAL
< 1289007589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They're, uh, opinionated. (wmx less so.)
< 1289007600 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeaaaaaaaaaaah so Ice then :P
< 1289007610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wait.
< 1289007626 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a wait regardless, I'm still installing the X server.
< 1289007626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ratpoison + a panel (fbpanel or whatever).
< 1289007639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ratpoison = keyboard-happy
< 1289007644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because there's no real point having multiple windows at once on such a screen, and the panel lets you switch windows without using the keyboard.
< 1289007648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: See the second part of my sentence :P
< 1289007661 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when does Ratpoison let you switch window w/o the keyboard?
< 1289007665 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1289007681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: When you use a panel application...?
< 1289007689 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
< 1289007690 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derr :P
< 1289007726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: jwm is a quite nice icewm-esque thing but its config file is xml so bleh.
< 1289007746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What state are you in? I'ma look up shipping :P
< 1289007764 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of implementing TeX, I can implement "XeX", which can be different (it might not pass the TRIP test, it won't implement \outer and \long, etc) but can produce DVI output with identical meaning from TeX when typesetting a correct (no error) TeX document (with a modified Plain TeX format that changes things to support TeX files
< 1289007770 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/looking-job-security-try-cobol-426
< 1289007774 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Indiana
< 1289007778 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fbpanel + ratpoison = fail
< 1289007782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : such as default extension, and \outer and \long, and so on)
< 1289007795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, it probably just tries to focus, not raise... or ratpoison refuses to be coerced :P
< 1289007849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have no idea how your country's postal system works.
< 1289007862 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither do I :P
< 1289007876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Priority Mail®
< 1289007876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :International Flat Rate Envelope
< 1289007876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 1/2" x 12 1/2".
< 1289007876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maximum weight 4 pounds.
< 1289007883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Would it fit in that? :P
< 1289007887 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What country?
< 1289007887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, there's an EXPRESS one too.
< 1289007889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not quite PRIORITY.
< 1289007896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a "slow" option? :P
< 1289007910 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Should, this isn't 4lbs.
< 1289007919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It'd fit into an envelope, then?
< 1289007923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What about the charger?
< 1289007931 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just a small AC adapter, no problem.
< 1289007941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plasma Mobile is the third environment. It is targeted at smartphones and small tablet devices that are mainly used via touch input. It is still being developed with the first stable release expected to be due in 2011, although individual KDE applications may be released earlier as part of the porting effort to MeeGo. Preview releases of the Kontact applications and a document viewer based on KOffice are already available.
< 1289007944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUUDE INSTALL THIS :P
< 1289007945 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I fear that it would get smashed, but other than that :P
< 1289007980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What about 9 1/2" x 12 1/2"?
< 1289007990 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... this is a 7" tablet.
< 1289007990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh wait never mind.
< 1289007994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Priority Mail® International Flat Rate Envelope* [More info about Priority Mail® International Flat Rate Envelope*]
< 1289007994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maximum Value for Contents: $400.00
< 1289007994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USPS Supplied Envelope: 9 1/2" x 12 1/2".
< 1289007994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maximum weight 4 pounds.
< 1289007999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, like, way bigger than it needs to be :P
< 1289008005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: $13.45 at post office, $12.78 online.
< 1289008017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wait, surely that power adapter is US-only? :(
< 1289008023 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, yup 8-D
< 1289008026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just get an adapter or never charge it ever
< 1289008080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So as you'll clearly pay for the postage online, I can have that sweet piece of kit for $37.78. SWEET
< 1289008089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Equivalently, 27p)
< 1289008104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually £23.34 but whatever :P
< 1289008132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plasma Tablet is a prototype implementation that combines elements from Plasma Netbook (notably its newspaper view) with elements from Plasma Mobile.
< 1289008179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...so, uhh, is it any good at browsing the web? :-P
< 1289008217 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not too bad, actually. Scrolling on big pages can be sort of slow, but it's not so bad on the screen size.
< 1289008224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Images usually look shitty :P
< 1289008261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Man, this thing has a slower CPU than new smartphones, a seemingly shittier-although-larger display compared to my iPhone, and a terrible touchscreen :P
< 1289008271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If we could put a dollar value on frustration...
< 1289008276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this thing would cost a fuckton. I want it.
< 1289008279 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1289008292 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MUCH slower
< 1289008301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, isn't it 500 mhz?
< 1289008306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, HOLY SHIT IT HAS LOWER SPECS THAN THE UBISURFER.
< 1289008309 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? No.
< 1289008313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...X_X what is it
< 1289008317 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, I linked you to it :P
< 1289008323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It quoted no CPU speed.
< 1289008337 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it did.
< 1289008350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Relink :P
< 1289008380 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.42071
< 1289008386 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An impressive 350MHz
< 1289008391 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A true powerhouse.
< 1289008416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I... this is the worst thing, like, ever.
< 1289008419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D
< 1289008426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty entertaining though :P
< 1289008443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The iPad currently sounds like the greatest device to ever be birthed, listening to this.
< 1289008450 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-d
< 1289008451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*X-D
< 1289008466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAY STEVE JOB'S LOINS ENVELOP ME
< 1289008469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Please tell me it has Flash.
< 1289008476 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could it?
< 1289008479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It would be hilarious to watch it choke on EVERY FLASH EVER.
< 1289008507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude dude dude
< 1289008512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: QEMU + Windows XP
< 1289008514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: DO IT. DO IT NOW
< 1289008520 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1289008522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not :P
< 1289008527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay then. WINDOWS CE
< 1289008531 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1289008532 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not :P
< 1289008537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MAC OS X
< 1289008543 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1289008544 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not :P
< 1289008547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: GENTOO
< 1289008587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, most power adapters these days are going to be 120V/240V simply because it's cheaper than making two adapter circuits. Honestly.
< 1289008597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes but lack of child-saving safety prong,.
< 1289008599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prong.
< 1289008614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You would need to purchase a socket adapter, yes.
< 1289008628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE CHILDREN
< 1289008672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NETBSD
< 1289008673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1289008684 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NETBRB
< 1289008722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it annoying how many fucking sockets there are out there?
< 1289008734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And volt/hertz combinations.
< 1289008740 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the more fucking-sockets the better chance of fucking.
< 1289008814 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for pikhq to stop bashing his head into a wall.
< 1289008830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, the US is the only country using an international standard for their socket.
< 1289008865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the US socket was retroactively defined as *the* socket for 120v 60Hz power by the IEC, because we're the only people who insist on it.)
< 1289008902 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is, however, another case of blaming America for having bad technology when it's really just because we had it first.
< 1289008932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm actually not calling it bad; it works pretty much as well as 240v 50Hz.
< 1289008960 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hurts less when you lick wall sockets though.
< 1289008960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's only annoying because it's *different*.
< 1289008974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Now Japan, on the other hand, that we can blame.
< 1289008992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use 100V power, 50Hz *or* 60Hz.
< 1289008999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japan and France. We can ALWAYS blame Japan and/or France.
< 1289009012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, France is unconditionally blamed.
< 1289009312 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be useless to release an OS X esolang interpreter?
< 1289009883 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMPUTE DEMO-VAR = 2+2
< 1289010155 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION VAGUELY WONDERS WHAT STRING MANIPULATION IS LIKE IN COBOL
< 1289010161 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROBABLY LIVING HELL
< 1289010245 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hMM
< 1289010291 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT OCCURS TO ME THAT THE WORKING-STORAGE STUFF HELPS ENFORCE READABLE VARIABLE NAMES. IF YOU DON'T USE READABLE VARIABLE NAMES THERE, THE CODE BECOMES SO HOPELESSLY UNREADABLE NO ONE WOULD EVEN DREAM OF WRITING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE
< 1289010393 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH, SO THAT'S WHY ZEROS EXIST (READING A GOOD TUTORIAL)
< 1289010824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGEO: No, people just wrote code that hideous.
< 1289010824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust me.
< 1289010895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now that's actually kinda annoying. US power is actually 120V/240V. Driers and ovens get 240V for their heating elements.
< 1289010929 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289010966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh*
< 1289010974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be given the power to replace all standards.
< 1289011006 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMM, NUMERIC EDITED CANNOT BE MOVED INTO NUMERIC EDITED
< 1289011012 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1289011018 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear Debian is faster than Android on this ...
< 1289011037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IceWM = superfast :P
< 1289011047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, Android actually has a VM going.
< 1289011069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1289011236 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1289011258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, high-leg delta power distribution is really fucking clever. (the scheme that the US uses for power distribution)
< 1289011284 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'D TRUST COBOL WITH CURRENCY WITH . THAN SOME MORON WRITING CODE IN JAVA MANIPULATING CURRENCY AS A FLOAT OR DOUBLE
< 1289011292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got two AC hot lines and a single neutral line. The hot lines are half wavelength out of step.
< 1289011319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGEO likes COBOL; discuss his increasing stupidity as time increases.
< 1289011326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The upshot is that if you use just the two hot lines, you get perfect AC of twice the voltage of each individual line.
< 1289011335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, 120V/240V power distribution.
< 1289011380 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WOUDN'T USE IT FOR ANYTHING MORE COMPLICATED THAN SOME MATH AND SIMPLE FLAT-FILE MANIPULATION
< 1289011426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: To be fair, he's only appreciating its decimal floating point. Which is one of the few useful things it has.
< 1289011526 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289011606 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION proceeds to install xterm
< 1289011649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Next, XChat!
< 1289011652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it
< 1289011656 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure why not :P
< 1289011723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also Firefox. Don't argue.
< 1289011726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or better, Seamonkey.
< 1289011776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also QEMU.
< 1289011925 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hMM
< 1289011930 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289011944 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IF I WANT A CONDITION NAME THAT CHECKS SEVERAL VARIABLES?
< 1289011993 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289012048 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAR TUTORIAL: STOP IT WITH THE UNREADABLE POWERPOINT ANIMATIONS
< 1289012257 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL, THIS POWERPOINT VIEWER THINGY FOR WINDOWS 95 WORKS ON WINDOWS 7
< 1289012322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGEO: #cobol
< 1289012728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ITYM #COBOL
< 1289012743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1289012903 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Open subroutines. are useful because they allow a programmer to code a subroutine. without the formality or overhead involved in coding a Procedure or Function.
< 1289012903 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1289012915 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..HOW IS THAT USEFUL? WHAT OVERHEAD/
< 1289012964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://damnyouautocorrect.com/img/oh-poopy-autocorrect.jpg
< 1289013070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: I have an excellent idea.
< 1289013792 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeesh, xchat has a crapload of dependencies X-D
< 1289013804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes :P
< 1289013807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try KDE next!
< 1289013813 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, let's not.
< 1289013830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay, fine; thttpd.
< 1289013835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello from my TABLET!!!"
< 1289013851 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libmozjs2d
< 1289013856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well on my way to Firefox now!
< 1289013879 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not very good at the C code golf. To do good at the C code golf at Anarchy Golf, it is necessary to make assumptions about the machine, and those things! But some of the other ones I did a good job sometime
< 1289013883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was joking, you moron :P Install Chromium.
< 1289013898 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: libmozjs2d is (apparently) a dep of xchat.
< 1289013905 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGEO: What does it mean "open subroutines"?
< 1289013907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...interesting.
< 1289013929 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, execution can fall through to the next subroutine, depending on how you call the subroutin
< 1289013952 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if execution doesn't terminate by the time you reach it physically
< 1289014007 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGEO: Do you mean like in machine code you might have a subroutine followed by the next one directly in memory, with no RETURN code in between?
< 1289014026 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that, I think
< 1289014054 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in COBOL, one way of calling it ensures that it returns.. but if you don't terminate the program, the subroutine will be called again
< 1289014063 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the next one, without the return
< 1289014064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do that in any programming language other than assembly language? (If so, you have to have it omit prolog/epilog to make it working?)
< 1289014080 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIRST-PARAGRAPH.
< 1289014087 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DISPLAY "FIRST".
< 1289014106 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me pastebin this actually
< 1289014141 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289014300 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ideone.com/i2WDC
< 1289014332 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So FIRST-PARA calls PERFORM SECOND-PARA, which performs the second paragraph and returns to the first
< 1289014341 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, now I understand.
< 1289014341 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then execution falls through to the second and third paragraphs
< 1289014417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WTFWTFWTF
< 1289014421 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEPENDENCIES FAIL
< 1289014430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X_X
< 1289014434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're using armel right?
< 1289014435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not arm?
< 1289014439 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup
< 1289014444 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonono, you misunderstand.
< 1289014448 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing is failing to install.
< 1289014451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's installing TOO MUCH.
< 1289014451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you just don't like it
< 1289014453 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thingy complained at me about missing the 7 spaces in front
< 1289014455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1289014455 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got iceweasel.
< 1289014456 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR XCHAT
< 1289014459 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1289014462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: <3
< 1289014467 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it would have been ok if I skipped the line numbers, but I didn't try it
< 1289014470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it probably depends on x-www-browser to open links
< 1289014473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least recommends
< 1289014481 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't install the recommends!
< 1289014485 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries it
< 1289014488 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I didn't pay any attention :P
< 1289014543 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that does not work
< 1289014549 0 :SGEO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need all those damn spaces
< 1289014577 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, after all that lunacy, I just need xvkbd.
< 1289014629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Tell me you're using apt?
< 1289014636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sound like you're doing it manually :P
< 1289014641 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Linking and byte-compiling packages for runtime python2.6..."
< 1289014644 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I'm using apt.
< 1289014657 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude install xchat -> holy crap why do I have iceweasel
< 1289014657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^faq apt
< 1289014662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1289014663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help
< 1289014667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO FUNGOT
< 1289014670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HALP HALP PALHPALHPALHP[L[LD[RTJ
< 1289014671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
< 1289014673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am literally in seizures
< 1289014729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo iojdfg
< 1289014737 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1034 ++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++>+++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>>+++.--.>>.<<<+.>>>+.<<<.>>>+++++.<<++++++++.<---------------------------------------.--------------------------.>>----.+++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++.>--.----.<<----.<.>----.>>.<++++++++.<.>++.------.<<.>>+.>----.-------.+++++++++++++.---.<<<.>>>++.<<++++.<.>+.+++++++++.>--.<<.>+++++.>----------.---.<<.>>----.<+++.>>--------.<<----.----.--.--------.<.>>-------------------------------.++++.<<.>>+++++
< 1289014741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what
< 1289014757 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1289014762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo racism
< 1289014763 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :racism
< 1289014768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo iojdfg
< 1289014769 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iojdfg
< 1289014771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what
< 1289014778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++>+++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>>+++.--.>>.<<<+.>>>+.<<<.>>>+++++.<<++++++++.<---------------------------------------.--------------------------.>>----.+++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++.>--.----.<<----.<.>----.>>.<++++++++.<.>++.------.<<.>>+.>----.-------.+++++++++++++.---.<<<.>>>++.<<++++.<.>+.+++++++++.>--.<<.>+++++.>----------.---.<<.>>----.<+++.>>--------.<<----.----.--.--------.<.>>-------------------------------.
< 1289014778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++.<<.>>++++
< 1289014779 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: People always thank me for the awesome B
< 1289014785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that outputted iodfjg
< 1289014787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*iojdfg
< 1289014789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have lol'd
< 1289014801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I guess it decided to say it again :P
< 1289014804 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh goddddddd
< 1289014817 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: You screwy!
< 1289014841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Idea. Grey Mist icon set.
< 1289014848 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289014849 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1289014854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Grey Mist icons = disable icons
< 1289014862 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289014863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not actually using Grey Mist right now :P
< 1289014865 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289014865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not really.
< 1289014867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1289014869 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1289014877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What *are* you using, if not Grey Mist?
< 1289014886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: C... C... Clearlooks.
< 1289014893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... it's the default.
< 1289014898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THE FEATURES, MAN, THE FEATURES.
< 1289014900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't hurt me.
< 1289014900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HOW COULD YOU.
< 1289014922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a Grey Mist iconset would clearly be a very very minimal lineart icon set.
< 1289014924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IN MY DEFENCE I TOTALLY DON'T ENDORSE IT OK
< 1289014931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, agreed, get on it :P
< 1289014965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlikely scenes:
< 1289014966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub'SQRT','134.77-'
< 1289015027 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, seriously what the fuck.
< 1289015034 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It installed both Python 2.6 and Python 2.5
< 1289015037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Installing Cobol..."
< 1289015040 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR XCHAT
< 1289015052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1289015061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Probably one for XChat plugins and one for some other package it wants.
< 1289015094 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. But still, WTF.
< 1289015153 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libogg0
< 1289015155 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY
< 1289015166 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For FireWeaselFoxyIce of course, but still)
< 1289015317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because it supports