< 1291334423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see, this sort of thing is what makes the multiple-ABI directory layout thing not a terrible idea!) < 1291334445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: /lib/{libc.a,crt*.o} is main libc; /lib/otherlibname/* is the other one. :p < 1291334502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, that actually does work for static linking... *shrug* < 1291334510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (I suppose I don't want to build every lib twice, though, against a different libc...) < 1291334529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the libraries that'll actually work against dietlibc. < 1291334537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is *not* going to be universal. < 1291334553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even incredibly common. < 1291334582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's what makes me want to use uClibc. < 1291334593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But man, nm -a a uClibc'd executable some time. Bloooooat. < 1291336345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down? < 1291336359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps. :P < 1291336359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the next torch is close to me, there is a chest a bit further along < 1291336370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1291336438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, up < 1291336704 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-44-136.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291336741 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291336795 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291336803 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1291336856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping < 1291336879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Gnip < 1291336896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm sad that live-action doesn't compress as well as animation. < 1291336914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Clearly we should all become animated. < 1291336917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly. < 1291337043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, I have to resort to 256 kbps to get tolerable 240p! < 1291337046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait, how do typical C compilers know what start files to link? Do they just go by whatever's at /lib/crt1.o and the like? < 1291337056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. filename based? < 1291337098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The path is builtin to the compiler. < 1291337109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, path-based. < 1291337110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC at least has the courtesy to stick it in the spec file. < 1291337126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How would one go about making a typical (non-gcc) compiler assume it's statically compiling always? < 1291337128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. implicit -static. < 1291337137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uuuuh. I dunno. < 1291337144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really easy to do with GCC, though. < 1291337144 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291337186 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1291337260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pcc, so it's probably not configurable without patching :P < 1291337300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Copyright(C) Caldera International Inc. 2001-2002. All rights reserved. < 1291337305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Gotta love any piece of code that starts with that. < 1291337312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * This file should be rewritten readable. < 1291337314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then has that. < 1291337321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Whaaa? < 1291337327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's pcc. < 1291337331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pcc has... a LOT of authors. < 1291337345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Caldera happens to be one of them and they stuck that copyright there :P < 1291337368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...come to think of it thought, pcc wasn't being maintained then. Whut? < 1291337370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. It's got a shaggy dog story about as crazy as your typical genetic UNIX. < 1291337380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (strcmp(argv[i], "-static") == 0) { < 1291337380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bstatic = 1; < 1291337402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef DYNLINKER < 1291337407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice, I can theoretically disable that :P < 1291337420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: figure all that out. < 1291337426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, what's your vote for main libc. uClibc or dietlibc? < 1291337529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uClibc, I guess. < 1291337560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay! The people have spoken, and they choose MEDIOCRITY! < 1291337638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1291337986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The worst thing about all of this is the kernel configuration. < 1291337999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is *so hard* to know what you need to get stuff working, and no matter how much you disable it always seems to end up huge. < 1291338009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least starting from the stock kernel.) < 1291338260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I didn't need to scale that Sintel trailer down to 240p; it turns out fine at 480p. < 1291338302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SD VIDEO STREAMING VIA ISDN. < 1291338670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I eagerly await "NES live game streaming over telegraph" < 1291338724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: XD < 1291339063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1291339166 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291339472 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-47-23.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291339772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a digital-composey-MIDI-ish-tracker-y thing with a decent interface. < 1291339815 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291340741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Microsoft has started funding Hercules. < 1291340747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IBM mainframe emulator. < 1291340758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Beats me. < 1291340887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newspeak makes me feel like I can contribute to it < 1291340893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that feeling < 1291341046 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If it runs on Windows and they suspect people will want it, that's customers. < 1291341245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does run on Windows. < 1291341594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is newspeaklanguage.org down? :(:( < 1291342042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You know what's a good language...? < 1291342044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: newLISP. < 1291342280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like dynamic scoping.. but dynamic scoping by default? < 1291342319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hey, original LISP had it that way! < 1291342525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: More kitten work tomorrow; let's see if I can bootstrap a usable if bare system with X11 by Christmas. < 1291342526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1291343060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: Needs more cowbell. < 1291343080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone please tell me WHY elliott is trying to push me from Newspeak? < 1291343131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because all is koneko. < 1291343143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1291343160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kitten. < 1291343254 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291343289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is amused by how extensive the Japanese article on cats is. < 1291343729 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291344827 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh... IPv4 addresses are running out and the replacement is quite a Charlie Foxtrot... :-/ < 1291344885 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least it has major "last mile" issues, and major routing issues. < 1291345386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last mile issues? < 1291345459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of them are not inherent faults in IPv6, but rather faults in meatware. < 1291345475 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291345486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fucking *idiots*, IPv4 is *basically over*. Get that through your fucking skulls. < 1291345574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't "get a transition plan in the coming years". Get a motherfucking time machine and be THROUGH YOUR TRANSITION as of last year. Or else you will HAVE NO INTERNET you fucking apes. < 1291345600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has been cursing-filled rants from pikhq. < 1291345610 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fucking apes. < 1291345976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How bad can it be to live with not getting IP addresses for a few years? Hurt a few consumers, businesses, etc, not the end of the world, right/ < 1291345982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1291346319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Try "critically injure all businesses". < 1291346354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New ones? How often do current businesses need new IPs? < 1291346384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, every time they get new computers that should be publicly accessible. < 1291346396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine a world in which all Internet services cannot grow. < 1291346419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1291346460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still temporary. Unless the economic impact causes irreversible damage to society or something < 1291346472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still pretty bad shit. < 1291346493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because everyone is absolutely, positively *unprepared*. < 1291346513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is going to sneak up and surprise everyone. < 1291346533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should get the media involved somehow < 1291346540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We can't add that new server." "Why not?" "The Internet is full." < 1291346599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if we could do something ourselves, or motivate the people tracking this sort of thing to speak to the media, but < 1291346621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The only way to get the media aware is for IANA to announce the end of allocations. < 1291346644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is when the shit hits the fan. < 1291346654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't think the media is interested in "In all liklihood, the Internet fills up around this time"? < 1291346695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you realise just how soon IPv4 depletion is. < 1291346719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pessimistic estimates give us until March. < 1291346786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the media would love to hear about it, at the very least. Put pressure on ISPs to start IPv6 adoption now, as opposed to waiting untii, say, March < 1291346787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if there was a gigantic push to switch to IPv6 rivaling the space race in effort, we couldn't switch in time. < 1291346797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but surely, the sooner the better? < 1291346810 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291346819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less time of economic turmoil? < 1291346833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People still have their heads in the sand. < 1291346850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again: The media might help fix that < 1291346863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The media? < 1291346885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those morons are too focused on Justin Beiber to report on anything of merit. < 1291346940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they love doom and gloom predictions... or make fun of them blah < 1291346974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also have the intelligence of a gold fish. < 1291346992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember: Glenn Beck is taken seriously. < 1291346992 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If IPv4 was a household object that can cause 1 in 6 billion people to die, then they'd care < 1291347000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember: Glenn Beck is taken seriously. < 1291347012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never seen Glenn Beck < 1291347562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a completely crazy right-wing conspiracy theorist. < 1291347571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now give him a radio program and a TV show. < 1291347575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Glenn Beck. < 1291347629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "crazy" I don't mean "has some really bizarrely fascist opinions". I mean "is literally schizophrenic". < 1291347774 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are people so ridiculously short-sighted w.r.t. what constitutes "life"? < 1291347813 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason we're even looking for carbon-rich planets is that we can't formulate a way that life could exist without carbon; this is almost assuredly because we're stupid, not because it's impossible. < 1291347845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when we find something really exotic, we just expand our search from Space Earth to Space Almost-Earth. Yeehaw. < 1291347929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: To be fair, we're only searching for carbon-rich planets because it's literally the only selection criteria we have. < 1291347948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside from "happens to be sending us a treatise on classical mechanics". < 1291347955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, no planets meet *that* criteria. < 1291347975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Criterion. < 1291348017 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now we're so limited, we should be more focused on "things we can get to" than "things that might have life by our narrow definition" < 1291348153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that the only planet that was "things that might have life by our narrow definition" so far is just a few light years away. < 1291348154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, it's "things we can get to" if you opt for a generation ship. < 1291348155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is, of course, the only way we're getting anywhere right now) < 1291348210 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291348443 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1291349002 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291349219 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pessimistic estimates of IANA depletion are *this year*. < 1291349358 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those "March" estimates are of optimistic category. < 1291349455 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one of those pessimistic (2010) estimates is by some (I don't recall which exactly) RIPE (the euro RIR) executive (who is expected to know this stuff pretty well)... < 1291349493 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then, RIRs don't know much what each other is doing... Granted, there's NRO, but still...) < 1291349618 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291350087 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925110043.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1291350282 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291350287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric: Home of those watching the IPv4 apocalypse helplessly < 1291350346 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got my Dinosaur Comics neckties! 8-D < 1291350378 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric: Home of those who have not yet realized that humans have an impressive ability to adapt to imperfect situations, albeit reactively. < 1291350658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y36fG2Oba0 < 1291350680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's assuming that people actually got to IPv6 in a sensible way :/ < 1291350709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no it isn't < 1291350742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It incorrectly talks about TCP thugh < 1291350757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, wait no < 1291350794 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291351353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we couldn't respond sensibly to IPv4 depletion, despite having a perfect solution in hand for years < 1291351358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We knew the problem was solvable < 1291351367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What hope do we have for Global Warming? < 1291351371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION depresses < 1291352575 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291352591 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291353285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's still depressing that humans only adapt in reaction to shit that's already *happened*, rather than being proäctive. < 1291353328 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there are the "converging catastrophes" and Global Warming is just one of them... < 1291353343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hence "reactively" :P < 1291353359 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pronounced "reek-tively") < 1291353407 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the worst is when predictors of disaster (that will later come to pass) are ridiculed for forecasting ridiculous things... < 1291353458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm genuinely surprised that we actually bothered to handle Y2K ahead of time. < 1291353489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that took spelunking into some of the nastiest code bases out there. < 1291353607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the media helped a bit? =P < 1291353624 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps because media took upon really drumming on it? < 1291353636 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Doom... Doom... Doom...) < 1291353681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doom interests the media. I still want to get the media to pay attention to IPv4 depletion < 1291353732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it doesn't help stop the crisis, at least the situation will be helped at least a little < 1291353749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might go a bit faster, businesses might be more prepared to withstand it < 1291353883 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, current growth rate of IPv6 is about 70% per year. Not enough, we need at least 700% per year to make it... :-) < 1291353942 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we, #esoteric, speak to the media? < 1291353943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1291353948 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291353955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or pressure some group into doing so? < 1291354061 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best case would be avoiding RIR depletions entierely (because of insufficient demand to deplete RIRs)... < 1291354097 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's incredibly optimistic... < 1291354152 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANA would still be depleted (essentially nothing can stop that now). < 1291354258 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, APNIC could justify allocation at any momemnt. And they might have to in just couple weeks... < 1291354415 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now there's talk about RIR depletion estimates being too optimistic by several months... < 1291354467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what? < 1291354484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soonish, I'm going to write something, ask #esoteric to proof it, then send it somewhere < 1291354570 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets terrifying when the most pessimistic model is the reality... < 1291354624 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, lagerholm depletion model was the more pessimistic one... But now it seems hopelessly optimistic... < 1291354638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can businesses do to prepare themselves? < 1291357708 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1291357898 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-92-62.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291357992 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1291359617 0 :perdito!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :perdito|afk < 1291359782 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-2.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1291360973 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291361109 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291362641 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291362886 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291363199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1291363200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1291364165 0 :MigoMipo!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291364387 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291364419 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291366191 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291367423 0 :FireFly|n900!~n900@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291368914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291370000 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua < 1291371189 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291371656 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.rh.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1291371663 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey all. < 1291371688 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291371898 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1291372334 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291372375 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291372381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1291372404 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291372419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/quit < 1291372429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291372683 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291372683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1291372755 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291372783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :æøå < 1291372854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "æ" < 1291372873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :æ < 1291372949 0 :FireFly|n900!~n900@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291372952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i discovered that my locale setup that got irssi to work with utf8 last time actually works by having an illegal locale which is reset to C, so some more tweaking is needed :D < 1291372969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1291372970 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1291372975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "æ" < 1291372978 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\195\166" < 1291373011 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :æ < 1291373016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "\195" < 1291373019 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1291373027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, seems it's still working < 1291374017 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte < 1291374166 0 :perdito|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291374490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd XD < 1291375020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh < 1291375229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and I noticed the pirate theme of IWC is getting extremely absurd < 1291375234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than average for iwc that is < 1291375466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's square root of minus garfield is rather swedish < 1291376114 0 :perdito|afk!~perdito@koln-d93299cc.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291378360 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-92-62.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291378385 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291380022 0 :perdito|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: perdito|afk < 1291380042 0 :perdito|afk!~perdito@koln-d93299cc.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291380460 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to buy minecraft < 1291380460 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291380550 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that as Microsoft < 1291380554 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's go buy Microsoft < 1291380780 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1291381802 0 :FireFly|n900!~n900@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1291381802 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291381802 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1291381802 0 :FireFly|n900!~n900@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291382311 0 :perdito|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :perdito < 1291382823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291382959 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-40-82.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291383058 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1291383218 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.255.188 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291383233 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: gcc just ate up your least favourite language. < 1291383508 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1291384003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what's your least favourite language? < 1291384109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably Go < 1291384250 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.89.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291385098 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1291385101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1291385101 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1291385512 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte < 1291385910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:INTERCAL#INTERCAL_is_not_Compiler_Language_With_No_Pronouncable_Acronym < 1291386055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ____ ___ __ ___ _ _ _____ < 1291386055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :___| / _ \ \ \ / / | | | / \|_ _| < 1291386055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\___ \| | | | \ \ /\ / /| |_| | / _ \ | | < 1291386055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ___) | |_| | \ V V / | _ |/ ___ \| | < 1291386055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|____/ \___/ \_/\_/ |_| |_/_/ \_\_| < 1291386104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf happened to the two first lines < 1291386140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh the second line starts with / :D < 1291386208 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do better next time < 1291386252 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your second "O" in WHOOSH could be better too < 1291386257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ____ ___ __ ___ _ _ _____ < 1291386257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ ___| / _ \ \ \ / / | | | / \|_ _| < 1291386257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\___ \| | | | \ \ / /\ / /| |_| | / _ \ | | < 1291386257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ___) | |_| | \ V V / / | _ |/ ___ \| | < 1291386257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|____/ / \___/ \_/\_/ |_| |_/_/ \_\_| < 1291386264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAH! < 1291386280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed failure. oh missing the ^ :D < 1291386297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ____ ___ __ ___ _ _ _____ < 1291386297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ ___| / _ \ \ \ / / | | | / \|_ _| < 1291386297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\___ \| | | | \ \ /\ / /| |_| | / _ \ | | < 1291386297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ___) | |_| | \ V V / | _ |/ ___ \| | < 1291386297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|____/ \___/ \_/\_/ |_| |_/_/ \_\_| < 1291386329 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have saved it for when it made sense to the conversation at hand < 1291386334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's just figlet generated < 1291386353 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix the figlet < 1291386477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second O is just kerned with the S < 1291386507 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1291386513 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it shouldn't be < 1291386518 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it makes it look bad < 1291386535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ____ ___ __ ___ _ _ _____ < 1291386535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ ___| / _ \ \ \ / / | | | / \|_ _| < 1291386535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\___ \| | | | \ \ /\ / /| |_| | / _ \ | | < 1291386535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ___) | |_| | \ V V / | _ |/ ___ \| | < 1291386535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|____/ \___/ \_/\_/ |_| |_/_/ \_\_| < 1291386587 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand how i can read the sup-pixel message generator just fine, but i can't see the sub-pixels in your nick when you highlight me < 1291386669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the subpixel message generator is ridiculously hyper-saturated on purpose... < 1291386670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1291386689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare http://www.grc.com/image/cttech2.gif < 1291386705 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1291386713 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see the subpixels quite easily inn that message < 1291386738 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say something in magenta < 1291386758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magenta delenda est < 1291386759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no colours in this channel. < 1291386772 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1291386786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay < 1291386787 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291386790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function feedthebear (enum[bear] whichone, enum[food] bearfood) < 1291386790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :begin < 1291386790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bool fed; //if all goes well... < 1291386790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : whichone[call] (); < 1291386790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : try { < 1291386791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : whichone[eat] (bearfood); < 1291386793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : throw (whichone[eat](armp)); //armp is a global indicating < 1291386795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } //zookeeper's arm < 1291386797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1291386799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return (fed=TRUE); < 1291386801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end; < 1291386803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Am I part of the curse now too?) < 1291386815 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a magenter? < 1291386858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zook the eeper < 1291386906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: please tell me why xorg is split into 3489573457839445 tarballs < 1291386942 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see the subpixels a little bit in normal magenta text. i feel better. < 1291387022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aargh, not all of Magenta is on reocities < 1291387294 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1291387375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Will you have me if I just package xorg as one gigantic package containing everything? < 1291387376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hate < 1291387418 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291387467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # Re-run the last command until a build succeeds. < 1291387470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so, so reassuring < 1291387545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"xserver ... requires ncurses" < 1291387614 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-214.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291388360 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291388383 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291388661 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291388985 0 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291388986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1291388986 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291389304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=0,1,5&comics=1544,911,527&strip i made a terrible < 1291389305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1291389343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=0,1,5&comics=1544,911,1252&strip t-rex imagines the upcoming discussion, badly < 1291389529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291389557 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291389560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1291389575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1291389585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because they decided to split it into multiple packages, and did it *far* too fine-grained. < 1291389604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah and now i am discovering the joy of their build system < 1291389611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, a package for a *subdirectory* of headers‽) < 1291389620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it depends on programs written in c++ < 1291389622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaaaaaay. < 1291389639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: anyway there's only going to be one single xorg package in Kitten because to hell with splitting this up < 1291389659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but um this is kind of painful you should do the xorg package :P < 1291389678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, it is disregard my cflags and -O2 instead of -Os, this is the sad < 1291389686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad day < 1291389686 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291389691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it may in fact be building git xorg instead of 7.5 < 1291389693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be bad < 1291389852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Look at what Gentoo does for the xorg package for inspiration. < 1291389874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(should be fairly easy to grok; Portage runs on simple shell scripts.) < 1291389918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, um, I have a Dilemma. This patch: http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=128978361700898&w=2 is pretty much agreed by everyone to be on the order of, say, sliced bread in AWESOMENESS. There are videos showing before/afters where Linux is being compiled with -j64, 1080p video is playing, webpages are being scrolled and -- LIKE SOME KINDA MAGIC OS FROM THE FUTURE LIKE EVERY COMMERCIAL OS EVER -- everything just goes smoothly. (The before video < 1291389918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, less astonishing). Apparently -j128 is even more dramatic but makes for a bad demonstration because the "before" video is a static image of frozenness. < 1291389936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BUT BUT BUT not only is this patch CFS-specific, but it uses cgroups! BFS explicitly does not have cgroups! < 1291389950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus a DILEMMA! Enhanced desktop performance OR-- enhanced desktop performance?? < 1291389954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;____; < 1291390052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you know what the patch does, specifically? < 1291390073 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291390078 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291390078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's summarised in http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=128978361700898&w=2 < 1291390084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it improves performance in the case where you run a lot of background processes in a terminal and do something interactive on the GUI or a different terminal < 1291390089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically it automatically creates cgroups -- not very smartly at the moment, but -- < 1291390089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1291390097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "supposedly" it's going to be enhanced further < 1291390112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suppose it does seem a bit niche, but -- I mean -- I do often get sluggishness when compiling stuff. < 1291390114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's rather irritating. < 1291390130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it means using CFS, whereas BFS improves desktop performance in, like, every other case. < 1291390134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I compile at -j1 < 1291390173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mind you, I am going to be compiling stuff a *lot*, thanks to all the Kitten packages :) < 1291390182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, BFS is probably better overall. < 1291390199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, according to Slashdot, there's now a mobile phone plan with a 21Mbps speed and a 5GB per month cap < 1291390212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: you can only use it for around half an hour per month < 1291390253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1291390269 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291390273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does such a thing as NON-modular Xorg still exist? < 1291390301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wayland! < 1291390302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1291390328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not any more. < 1291390342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure the only way to get X running on Wayland is to use Xorg :P < 1291390345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1291390348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ;_; < 1291390360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How old is the last non-modular version? How long will I be able to use it before it rots to death? :P < 1291390361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should get coffee < 1291390403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 5 years. < 1291390409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(X11R6.9) < 1291390421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i think that is totally practical and i should use it, don't you totally agree??? < 1291390433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291390444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How do you feel about autoconfiguration? < 1291390468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well since I don't have udev or HAL I don't think I can have that anyway < 1291390476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :driver support is a rather bigger issue :P < 1291390479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mdev? < 1291390514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, it should have 2D acceleration about as good as right now. < 1291390540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying Firefox feature I just figured out how to turn off: sending what you typed to Google if it isn't a URL < 1291390554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: mdev is vaguely compelling, but it's still udev. But you know what? devfs is back in the kernel. Seriously. < 1291390570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They snuck it in -- newly-implemented -- under the pretence of being a temporary devfs for initramfses before udev is started. < 1291390578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's called devtmpfs, it runs on a tmpfs, and it's fully-featured. < 1291390580 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-40-82.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291390580 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291390596 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1291390605 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291390641 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291390673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...so yeah, I was pretty much just going to use that. < 1291390719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt mdev, there's also http://code.google.com/p/hotplug2/ < 1291390753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: All these things aren't very useful when you don't have modules in your kernel, of course. < 1291390770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So devfs is A Bad Thing? < 1291390795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, devfs is A Good Thing. < 1291390810 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is udev A Bad Thing, then? < 1291390837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had some implementation problems, and the kernel idiots decided that rather integrating a proposed new implementation, they should add pointless flexibility (you can make /dev/sda1 be called /dev/frobni1cator instead! USEFUL!) and move everything to userspace (because Linux is a microkernel amirite guyz?). < 1291390846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :udev isn't necessarily terrible. It has some valid usecases. < 1291390848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's really overblown. < 1291391145 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What was the 08:33 < elliott_> Gregor: gcc just ate up your least favourite language. < 1291391150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Go. < 1291391154 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ate up? < 1291391155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: gccgo is being merged into gcc. < 1291391160 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh < 1291391161 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1291391174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Dude, it also has Fortran and Objective-C. < 1291391177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly an endorsement. < 1291391179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Ada. < 1291391189 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Java < 1291391192 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C++ < 1291391193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C :P < 1291391219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway Go is a perfectly competent language in a certain niche that EVERYONE IS DETERMINED TO PRETEND IT DOES NOT EXIST IN. < 1291391225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with rather bad marketing materials. < 1291391256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody uses gccgo anyway, the Plan 9-style compilers are far better :P < 1291391257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's this about a niche? < 1291391279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: systems server programming. nothing else. < 1291391286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1291391464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *Issue 9 < 1291391476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, that issue was the stupidest thing ever < 1291391493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291391505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you call it Issue 9 just because the name "Go" is stupid. though? < 1291391508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/./,/ < 1291391517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, s/,/c/ < 1291391520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\./,/ < 1291391520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (1) yes, you can totally own the name "go", that's not one of the most common words ever; (2) your language is called "Go!" on all your publications, with an exclamation mark, so you can't even claim identicality < 1291391533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) lol internet bandwagon "because it was done in google 20% time it's google's projects now let's lynch evil google" < 1291391536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think there was trademark infringement < 1291391546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how's the name Go stupid, it's just... not an interesting name < 1291391563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too easily confused with the typical word without context < 1291391567 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :WE ARE SOMEWHAT SPARTA | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1291391602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Even WITH context; it's too general of a word. < 1291391646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: isn't it THIS IS SOMEWHAT SPARTA < 1291391646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/go/face/ < 1291391658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/word/face/ < 1291391663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your face is way too general. < 1291391681 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but WE are somewhat sparta. < 1291391690 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, no. < 1291391692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your face is somewhat sparta. < 1291391694 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's "I AM SOMEWHAT SPARTA" < 1291391702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1291391821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ouch, i just realised something about busybox < 1291391839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody needs to invent descenders; like suspenders, but worn under your pants and keeps your shirt perfectly tucked. < 1291391860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they don't. < 1291391940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I love that concept < 1291391999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not QUITE sure how they'd work just yet, but suffice it to say I'm tired of having to resort to the Picard Maneuver :P < 1291392034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291392045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard... Maneuver. < 1291392080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1291392095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not QUITE sure how they'd work just yet, but suffice it to say I'm tired of having to resort to the Picard Maneuver :P < 1291392177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yeah, udev's only failing is that it's a bit overkill. < 1291392194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which compared to some of the other odd shit done with /dev, makes it genuinely nice. :P < 1291392221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(devfs's organization scheme is, well, WTF.) < 1291392254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, but fuck them for not accepting mini-devfs before udev came along. < 1291392260 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In TNG, Patrick Stewart adjusted his shirt whenever he stood up; that adjusting is the Picard Maneuver :P < 1291392285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So is http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Picard_Maneuver the spaceship analogue to adjusting your shirt? < 1291392289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say yes. < 1291392294 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Let's go with yes. < 1291392298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And oh god why hasn't Memory Alpha switched from Wikia. < 1291392301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very fast adjustment < 1291392301 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: However, that name is actually just the source of the JOKE :P < 1291392307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. < 1291392313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: THERE IS NO JOKE ONLY FACTUALS < 1291392324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, because the release of Star Trek took place nearly simultaneously across the world, the community has taken the decision to lock the English edition of Memory Alpha to editing from 2000 UTC on May 6th until 0400 UTC on May 9th, in order to allow the users of Memory Alpha time to see the film without having to worry about being spoiled before it was (technically) released." < 1291392390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why TOS sucked: "...that the original version of the script for Star Trek: The Next Generation's "Conspiracy" did not feature alien parasites? The 'conspiracy' in question was simply a military coup within Starfleet, but Gene Roddenberry vehemently opposed such an idea, since he believed Starfleet would never stoop to such methods; thus the alien angle was introduced at his insistence." < 1291392405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STARFLEET IS A PARAGON OF PERFECT EXCELLENCY IN OUR FUTURE UTOPIA WHERE NOTHING EVER GOES WRONG EVER < 1291392453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Some parts of BusyBox require suid, like su, passwd, ping, traceroute. Apparently you're meant to make BUSYBOX ITSELF suid. That includes "ls" and "mv". < 1291392460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says it drops permissions if it doesn't need them, but uh....... < 1291392484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected by: LOGIN || PASSWD || SU || VLOCK || IPCRM || IPCS && PLATFORM_LINUX || CRONTAB < 1291392492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Disable those, disable suid/sgid handling, build separate "busybox-suid". < 1291392637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : │ │(1024) Maximum length of input (NEW) │ │ < 1291392638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1291392958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, soo, is Go your most hated language? < 1291393025 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte < 1291393125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BusyBox doesn't compile with dietlibc, using pcc or gcc. For fuck's sake. < 1291394384 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://abstrusegoose.com/323 < 1291394482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1291394714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo will still be useful in the 24th century. < 1291394720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a terrifying thought. < 1291395167 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291396047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when will I get my specs??? < 1291396057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wut? oh right < 1291396066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: uh, what was your budget again :P < 1291396068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Punctuation is a poor replacement for the full range of intonation. < 1291396076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i refuse to do it unless the first os you install on it is kitten < 1291396080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, £800 was the absolute upper bound. < 1291396104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll be the flagship Kitten user. < 1291396178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You crazy. < 1291396194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course! < 1291396204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (Note that the installation procedure involves an Ubuntu CD and a lot of manual installation :P) < 1291396223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can I install Debian first? < 1291396241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I said first OS! My demands are NON-NEGOTIABLE except under EXTREME circumstances. < 1291396252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (If you only use Debian to install Kitten that is okay.) < 1291396257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1291396262 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall do that. < 1291396289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't actually intend to force you to use Kitten :P < 1291396301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, suuuuuure. < 1291396338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the suffix "-matic" is underused in hardware names. < 1291396383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would give everything a nice Wallace and Gromit-y feel. < 1291396393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crunchomatic < 1291396420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Processomatic. < 1291396429 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory-o-mat. < 1291396512 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diskifier. < 1291396625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Added /kill command. Does 1000 points damage to the player". Well, that's certainly a novel way to solve the lack of /home. < 1291396646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The join server page now remembers the port as well as the ip", so it's not all bad. < 1291396715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, he said he'd add that but seriously fuck that. < 1291396721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Got lost? HAHA FUCK YOU YOU GET TO LOSE ALL YOUR ITEMS < 1291396751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fixed a bug where joining a server on a specific port caused the client to forget all keybindings". This has to be among the most random things ever. < 1291396781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think Notch actively tries to intertwine EVERY SINGLE CODE PATH. < 1291396871 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte < 1291397059 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291397098 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1291397154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Athlon II X4, quad core, 3 GHz, £74.78 y/n < 1291397182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not employing you to give me decisions to make! < 1291397196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh yes you are! < 1291397218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can't make decisions! I'm the president! < 1291397222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vehemently agrees with Phantom_Hoover on principle < 1291397232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:21:42 /home/elliott/kitten/stage3/include/dietref.h:-21: error: __PCC__ redefined < 1291397232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:21:43 previous define: x.c:-21 < 1291397236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having this problem again :DDD < 1291397322 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, more serious reason: for all I know, an Athlon II [... < 1291397331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*] could be a block of cheese. < 1291397350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is. < 1291397377 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Is it a good block of cheese for processing? < 1291397423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1291397440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it can go on the list. < 1291397544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also, what kind of cheese? < 1291397573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Athlon. < 1291397587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not one I've heard of. < 1291397602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: By the way, I'm not going to help you assemble this thing; don't forget the jumpers and if you fry stuff, you get to buy it again. < 1291397637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, this pushes it into thought experiment, but I don't really care. < 1291397652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1291397676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Eh? < 1291397690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, CRAZY, REMEMBER < 1291397709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am experiencing rapidly increasing doubts that I am using my time in a worthwhile manner :P < 1291397718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO AM I < 1291397848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERHAPS THIS IDEA WAS NOT THE BEST < 1291397967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is because the best idea is objectively making a ladder to the moon out of sausages. < 1291398137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm what are you doing then? < 1291398144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kitten or mc?) < 1291398183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Neither! < 1291398188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1291398211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what is it that you doubt is a worthwhile use of your time? < 1291398223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long story :P < 1291398229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, renicing Xorg to -8 is great. < 1291398238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh uh < 1291398248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It totally is. < 1291398269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your system must be very heavily loaded with something else then? < 1291398282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just tried this -j64 thing, since it's so popular. :p < 1291398299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah. well that sounds silly < 1291398311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely. < 1291398332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also depending on what compiler you use: it will probably be swap trashing < 1291398338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case nice -8 won't help that much < 1291398362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't. < 1291398370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 4 GiB of RAM and BusyBox probably doesn't require *that* much RAM to build. < 1291398411 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291398692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291399091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, this miscompiles on gcc on lucid at -O2 or higher. Works fine on later gcc versions. < 1291399115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I need -O2 or higher, the difference is about 3x speedup < 1291399116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: define this < 1291399126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, tried -Os? :p < 1291399127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, cython program < 1291399135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and no I haven't, willl < 1291399138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will* < 1291399165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, -Os also broken < 1291399168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (tried statically linking with dietlibc at -Os? that'll be even smaller) < 1291399172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant as far as speed goes < 1291399178 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291399178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't help since it miscompiles :P < 1291399184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so use a newer gcc < 1291399185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1291399192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I go for speed here, not size < 1291399204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: -Os is often fastest < 1291399206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to fitting in cache better < 1291399219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ais523 said < 1291399224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not always, though < 1291399225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tried that now. But this is numerical-intensive and seems to benefit from loop unrolling < 1291399234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's also why i said dietlibc; it doesn't help if glibc is huge < 1291399235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1291399237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's also why i said dietlibc; it doesn't help if your libc is huge < 1291399269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also it is long running, so loading time for libc is not important, if large parts are unused: so what < 1291399290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't think you understand cache < 1291399297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway -O3 is about 2x faster than -Os < 1291399300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *individual routines* in glibc are huge < 1291399301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just checked < 1291399302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on glibc, perhaps. < 1291399313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently defined functions: < 1291399314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : passwd, ping, ping6, su < 1291399315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallest busybox evar < 1291399357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also python doesn't support static linking. I checked. At least if you use tkinter. < 1291399367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use tkinter? < 1291399376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in one mode yes < 1291399379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since it is a game AI < 1291399395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to visualise that. < 1291399398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: another reason you can't use kitten, then! < 1291399422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in fact it doesn't work if you use any sort of extension module in C < 1291399441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are restricted to core python + pure python extensions < 1291399444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1291399449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no numpy I think for example < 1291399483 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291399483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um, or i could just build those in. < 1291399493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1291399507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and do you know what I had to add to fix unresolved symbols when linking against libpython2.7.a? < 1291399535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i'm not psychic < 1291399544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 elliott elliott 1.6M Dec 3 17:54 busybox < 1291399544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 elliott elliott 770K Dec 3 18:03 busybox-suid < 1291399548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if only they built against non-gcc/glibc < 1291399552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, also /uClibc < 1291399559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, -lm -lz -lssl -lcrypto -ldl (!) -lutil -lpthreads < 1291399571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i can patch, you know. < 1291399585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure. But it will be a lot of work < 1291399590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1291399594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most things aren't as stupid as python < 1291399606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well for python, perl and other similar languages < 1291399618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, not for most C programs < 1291399620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ruby, say < 1291399621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, 3 programs < 1291399624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think i can handle that. < 1291399628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah probably ruby too < 1291399649 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the goal of kitten again? < 1291399680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lua is probably somewhat "saner" (for some values of "saner") due to it's more limited scope < 1291399693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: to not irritate the fuck out of me < 1291399696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about it < 1291399715 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and you're doing that by avoiding glibc? < 1291399727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang I know can load native modules, and it is used for some stuff in the standard distribution, but I don't think it is quite as prolific as with python and so on < 1291399736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291399739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: avoiding gcc, glibc, dynamic linking, gnu coreutils < 1291399751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few other things too, like initramfs. < 1291399755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kernel modules. < 1291399756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /usr. < 1291399774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know that the kernel uses an initramfs always? But the default one doesn't do very much < 1291399789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has one that basically does next to nothing by default built in iirc < 1291399796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, you can disable the initramfs code outright < 1291399801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it tries the olde-style "let's find a root partition!" boot. < 1291399808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291399819 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is kitten somewhat sparta? < 1291399841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it is so sparta that anyone who types sparta into it gets instantly decapitated. < 1291399979 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i am convinced. it is clearly the best distro ever invented. < 1291400015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, everyone who bugs me about it gets a fake package server filled with rootkits < 1291400024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be afraid. be very afraid < 1291400041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : quintopia: to not irritate the fuck out of me <-- i sense someone fighting windmills... < 1291400083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey, on the off-chance that they are giants... < 1291400100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan++ < 1291400112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, any good at reversi? < 1291400135 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, in elliott's world there are far more giants than actual windmills. better to just destroy them all than waste time analyzing. < 1291400141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no good at it, but i like it < 1291400170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: do you object to someone making their own fortress without a single windmill in it if they like it better? < 1291400179 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not < 1291400182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah. Could you beet a greedy AI (one that just checks score after one move and goes for the best) < 1291400185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beat* < 1291400207 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if the fortress contains a bottomless pit < 1291400210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i'm in good company, what with the plan 9 team decrying the same things, and among their membership are the people who created Unix... < 1291400218 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is surrounded by barbed wire and magical curses < 1291400219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, but I can sure as hell try and fail to < 1291400232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: actually it's 128x128x128 and made out of glass. < 1291400242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE MY HEART < 1291400244 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1291400249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, but it is trivial to beat that, just think one move ahead and make sure it don't get corners. < 1291400256 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will tunnel into your glass heart < 1291400262 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fill it with water < 1291400263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have a decent chance of beating such an AI < 1291400265 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahahahaha < 1291400267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i have been beaten by a moron playing for the first time. < 1291400271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1291400305 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try the positional heuristic. i hear it's surprisingly good for how simple it is. < 1291400338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm lost in the north! < 1291400349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay. So an alpha-beta-pruning with corner-favouring heuristics with a ply depth of 7 you wouldn't manage to beat I presume? Oh and it also uses number of possible moves in the heuristics. This seems to help quite a bit. < 1291400400 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: ply = 7 needs cython. With pure python you are stuck at ply = 4 or so < 1291400423 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then add on a neural-net-based action-state heuristic learned by playing the AI against itself 150,000 times and you've got a real winner :P < 1291400436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, that would be cool < 1291400451 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, but I think it is outside the scope of the assignment I wrote this for :P < 1291400465 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it beats the positional heuristic 76% of the time! < 1291400474 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's at 1-ply! < 1291400531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, someone made such an AI? < 1291400532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291400548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, and I wonder how large the ANN is < 1291400562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and how long it takes to evaluate) < 1291400624 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 3 layers. the input layer is large enough to accomodate a board and a set of possible actions, and the output is a real value indicating confidence that that is the correct move. one hidden layer. < 1291400652 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reversi/othello is a perennial... well, maybe not quite a favourite, but at least a recurring topic on the AI course. < 1291400665 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, once you've trained it (which would take a very long time since we're using boosting with straight victory-condition-backpropagation) it's essentially instantaneous. < 1291400720 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: my school does a new variation on Isolation every time the course is taught. they make up a new one each year so you can't cheat :P < 1291400741 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's always in Lisp. the proper AI language. < 1291400820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We used to have a Scheme-based framework for the "if you don't have your own topic" game, for which there is also a tournament between the participants' programs. < 1291400859 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what isolation was for. mine got second place in the tournament. < 1291400878 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly it's Java -- well, JVM, anyway -- now, due to all the complaints after our introduction-to-programming courses switched from Scheme to Java. < 1291400892 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1291400970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Java version lets the participants do quite a lot more computation, though. (The Scheme one was built on top of the SICP metacircular interpreter for instruction-limits and sandboxing.) < 1291401011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and it's always in Lisp. the proper AI language. < 1291401019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp was never designed for ai and its association with ai is largely accidental < 1291401032 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but real < 1291401046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps, but largely baseless. < 1291401048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Reversi/othello is a perennial... well, maybe not quite a favourite, but at least a recurring topic on the AI course. <- yeah it is easier to work on than chess but not as trivial as tic-tac-toe < 1291401065 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp-likes (and other functional languages i suppose) have some nice properties for AI implementation < 1291401149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chess is an even more frequent topic, I believe. Of course there's the code-stealing-from-the-webs problem, but on the other hand we don't so much care about the implementations (it's not a programming course), we just grade the reports. < 1291401180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, "Isolation"? < 1291401261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, at least python is somewhat less painful than java < 1291401269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: lisp was rarely used functionally in ai < 1291401317 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i used it functionally. what's wrong with other people? < 1291401329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you're talking about people in the 50s, 60s, 70s here < 1291401332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LABELS was very common. < 1291401342 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is there a language that doesn't suck but compiles to run as fast as C or fortran? < 1291401343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt you would have been significantly more "enlightened" than them at the time < 1291401348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: um, haskell? < 1291401349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Isn't there some sort of Jython? We allow any JVM languages (though we only support Java), after all. < 1291401364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's Jython. < 1291401447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our competition runs on http://www.niksula.hut.fi/~svirpioj/hierarkia/ partly due to the moderately higher-than-chess branching factor, partly because it's so unknown. < 1291401462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1291401494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that the usual one you show each year? < 1291401497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not many have done !Java; I think two in the three or so years the Java framework's been there. < 1291401504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the same. < 1291401521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also no Swedish version? Strange for .fi < 1291401533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably hasn't been requested < 1291401536 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1291401543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're legally obligated to provide one if somebody does request it < 1291401545 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1875/isolation this is the original < 1291401551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah I see. < 1291401563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not that serious about the whole "second official language" business. :p < 1291401597 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want, I can cause trouble by demanding it in Swedish < 1291401604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, that looks like it has a high branching factor < 1291401628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not sure if that implies that I want everything in Swedish, which might screw me over in the exam < 1291401634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, I don't see the point of doing that < 1291401639 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm not sure whose problem it would become. Possible the responsible teacher. < 1291401657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who'd delegate it to you, presumably < 1291401673 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's basically a solved game in its original form. probably second player win. branching factor is at most 8. < 1291401674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is your role in that course btw? < 1291401685 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, oh? No worse. Hm < 1291401695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we even guarantee Swedish on all courses? I don't really think so. < 1291401747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're supposed to, but nobody really cares < 1291401772 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but the tournament gives each player a limited total time for all moves combined, so there's still not enough time for more than five or six plies on your longest turns. < 1291401785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, hm reversi has something like 10 as the branching factor right? < 1291401800 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :max or average? < 1291401804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, average < 1291401815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, max must be quite a bit higher than that < 1291401816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my course-title is "course assistant"; I basically run the tournament and grade the programming assignments (both tournament-participating and custom-topics). < 1291401855 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know for sure, but i would guess it's somewhere in the 4-8 range based on the games i've played. < 1291401903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder if memoising would help for reversi. Could speed up the computation at the next turn if it turns out we were right. And possibly during the same turn if we get the same board state down multiple paths. I guess I'll have to test. < 1291401920 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the "queen motion" version of isolation has a huge branching factor though. like...more than 10 on average i think. < 1291401941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, how does queen motion apply to that game? < 1291401978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1291401982 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard isolation uses king motion: move to an adjacent square. queen motion allows you to move as far as you want along a straight unobstructed path. < 1291401994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't refer to the "fit queens on a board" problem < 1291402001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it makes sense < 1291402013 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291402043 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291402068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hierarchy has on average somewhere around 50 valid moves, based on tournament statistics. < 1291402152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1291402211 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :niiiice < 1291402221 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is Go's branching factor? < 1291402265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, more than chess iirc < 1291402266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot more, I think. < 1291402273 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291402290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how painful would a multi-core alpha-beta pruning algorithm be? < 1291402299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you could just split it at the top node < 1291402300 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@beowulf.benuphoenix.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291402302 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1291402321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to n child node at the same time (n being the number of CPU cores) < 1291402342 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i accidently ordered something online and want to talk about it < 1291402352 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Serve-Man-Cookbook-People/dp/1880448823 < 1291402365 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to cancel the order < 1291402380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you are in the right channel? < 1291402402 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this #complain < 1291402404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :WE ARE SOMEWHAT SPARTA no| http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1291402407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arimaa is said to have a branching factor of 17281 on average, but I guess that was one of their deign goals. < 1291402407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1291402410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :WE ARE SOMEWHAT SPARTA | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1291402413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't :P < 1291402415 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1291402429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, arimaa? never heard of that one < 1291402448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but I guess 2 ply is max there < 1291402452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even 1 ply < 1291402454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, it's been talked on this channel several times. < 1291402461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to the patentedness. < 1291402467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And weirdo license. < 1291402534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291402594 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to figure out the speed equations for starburst. do you know where i should go? < 1291402703 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1291402991 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291403436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :WE ARE SOMEWHAT SPARTA AND SOMEWHAT ATHENS | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1291403448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird, i thought i'd seen the nick benuphoenix here before < 1291403520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have < 1291403524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a regular offtopicker < 1291403536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291403585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: stop me from writing my own coreutils < 1291403633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess he'll just have to keep the book then. which means, of course, he'll have to try out the recipes. < 1291403640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1291403767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291403778 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-215.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1291403793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argv is guaranteed to be null-terminated, right? < 1291403848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argv[argc] is guaranteed to be a null pointer < 1291403874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1291403888 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230228017.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1291403891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And saying argv[argc] = ...; would be an abomination, yes? ;) < 1291403895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god I'm horrible. < 1291403898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, elliott, don't do that. < 1291403912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you? :-P < 1291403919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: To implement yes(1)! < 1291403928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argv[argc] || argv[argc] = "y"; < 1291403932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1291403934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*argv[1] < 1291404002 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That or const char *s = argc ? argv[1] : "y" < 1291404012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's whole BYTES more. < 1291404021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many? < 1291404046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One woulf think it just ends up in a register. < 1291404058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*argv++||*argv="y"; < 1291404058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char*s=argc?argv[1]:"y"; < 1291404059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEE??? < 1291404068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A whole FIVE bytes shorter!!!!!!!!!! < 1291404071 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have to use it later on < 1291404082 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*argv versus s < 1291404082 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.rh.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1291404092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well then, let's GOLF. < 1291404096 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1291404099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You must use write(2), not stdio.) < 1291404116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have to be called argv, at least. < 1291404121 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hay guaiẓ. < 1291404127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z with a dot < 1291404143 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail at typing. < 1291404145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: int main(int c,char**v){*v++||*v="y";while(write(1,v,strlen(v))+write(1,"\n",1));return 0;} < 1291404147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Bring it on. < 1291404167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BTW, you don't need "char*s", you can reuse v. < 1291404180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming that sizeof(char *) == sizeof(char **).) < 1291404207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*v++||*v="y" < 1291404207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v=c?v[1]:"y"; < 1291404209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same length :P < 1291404239 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: char* and char** are guaranteed to be the same length because they're both pointers to POD, I think. < 1291404241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think the *v++ part there is always true, since it tests for argv[0]. Maybe *++v? < 1291404253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right, yes, that. < 1291404254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same length. < 1291404255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(c,v){while(1)write(1,c>1?v[1]:"y",c>1?strlen(v):1),write(1,"\n",1);} < 1291404264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pointers to data certainly don't need to have same size. < 1291404268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not valid C89. < 1291404286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think implicit int arguments are OK in C89 though. < 1291404286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(c,v)char**v;{while(1)write(1,c>1?v[1]:"y",c>1?strlen(v):1),write(1,"\n",1);} < 1291404294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot int at the start. < 1291404297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need < 1291404298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not implicit in C89. < 1291404302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no need only in C99. < 1291404302 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sure? < 1291404305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1291404308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% < 1291404315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also need return 0 at the end, of course. < 1291404316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check anyway < 1291404322 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return 0 is incorrect, you know < 1291404326 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write can fail < 1291404337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on some Crays sizeof(char *) > sizeof(int *). < 1291404338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Who says that programs have to return error exit status on failure? < 1291404343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do :-P < 1291404348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway, yours is wrong. You have to stop writing when the writes return 0. < 1291404358 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291404360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes has to stop writing when it can't write no' mo', and exit successfully. < 1291404365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course < 1291404372 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1291404374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in fact, yes should always return 0. < 1291404434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: int main(c,v)char**v;{v=c>1?v[1]:"y";while(write(1,v,strlen(v))+write(1,"\n",1));return 0;} < 1291404437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck beating that :P < 1291404449 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(c,char**v){v=c>1?v[1]:"y";while(write(1,v,strlen(v))+write(1,"\n",1));return 0;} < 1291404454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two bytes, I think < 1291404460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "(c,char**v)" kosher? < 1291404463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure < 1291404478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, I almost considered exit(0) but that leaves main trailing off the end < 1291404481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that valid C89? < 1291404483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v= isn't < 1291404488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1291404500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, "for(;;);" is one char shorter than "while(1);". < 1291404501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about c=? :P < 1291404504 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With char**v you can't assign char* to it < 1291404508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: We've abandoned while(1). < 1291404515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Can you assign (char *) to int? < 1291404521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. I was up in the backscroll. < 1291404526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, < 1291404527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(c,char**v){c=c>1?v[1]:"y";while(write(1,c,strlen(c))+write(1,"\n",1));return 0;} < 1291404536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1291404546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also have to have int -> char* for that to work < 1291404549 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(c,char**v){v=c>1?v[1]:"y";while(write(1,v,strlen(v))+write(1,"\n",1));return 0;} < 1291404550 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1291404556 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful error, that < 1291404557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not portably, int might not be big enough. < 1291404560 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(int c,char**v){v=c>1?v[1]:"y";while(write(1,v,strlen(v))+write(1,"\n",1));return 0;} < 1291404564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case it needs a cast. < 1291404568 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: write(2) isn't portable anyway < 1291404583 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Probably running, but you'd only get the response when it (doesn't) finish or in 30 seconds :P < 1291404596 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but stuffing pointers into ints is less portable than write(2). < 1291404601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: int main(c,char**v){return execv("yes",v);} < 1291404602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I win. < 1291404603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguable < 1291404611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Even less portable :-P < 1291404621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's portable to all POSIX systems. :p < 1291404626 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are we not omitting "int" before "main"? < 1291404629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Good enough for cfunge! < 1291404632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm more sure that c,char**v isn't portable < 1291404633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Not valid C89, only C99. < 1291404645 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: cfunge isn't portable, it doesn't even run on Windows :-P < 1291404650 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought implicit int return type was older. < 1291404656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is older < 1291404680 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm getting owned in this conversation. < 1291404688 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are we golfing a "yes" implementation, anyway? < 1291404690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Implicit int is invalid C99 < 1291404726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not for main < 1291404730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Main is a special case. < 1291404732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not joking.) < 1291404740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: BECAUSE < 1291404740 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does it say that < 1291404755 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291404762 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Implicit return 0 is a special case, you sure you're not confusing it with that? < 1291404769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, seemingly. < 1291404795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anywho, int main(c,v)char**v;{return execv("yes",v);} is both POSIXly correct and perfect :P < 1291404810 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I need a name for my most recent language design. < 1291404845 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking something to do with light, like Enlight or similar, but I'm uncertain. My roommate suggested Spectrum. < 1291404846 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("Forbleborble") < 1291404866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, it was so responsive five minutes ago >_> < 1291404868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is it guaranteed in POSIX that that stuff is in PATH or just that it exists? < 1291404873 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forbleborble < 1291404935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Good point. < 1291404951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(c,v)char**v;{return execvp("/usr/bin/yes",v);} < 1291404955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the locations are specified... maybe. < 1291404962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ZX < 1291404973 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Haw haw haw. < 1291404993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MOCK ME < 1291405001 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, "Spectre", though I think that's already taken. < 1291405009 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I wanted light, not ghosts. < 1291405095 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I am just waltzing in here and changing the topic, 'cause I have nothing better to do right now, at least nothing that I want to be doing. < 1291405183 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY is trac taking up 100% CPU. < 1291405188 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could figure that out, I would be a happier person. < 1291405198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope you have, you know, tested those yes-codes of yours, instead of just speculating. At least the plain execv("yes",v) is not likely to work since yes doesn't path-search. (And the commands, I think, are specified to be executable from the shell, and execvp is defined to "duplicate the actions of the shell", so I think execvp("yes",v) would be okay.) < 1291405227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since execv doesn't path-search, I mean. < 1291405253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I doubt yes looks for any paths either, but that's not very relevant. < 1291405643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://landley.net/code/toybox/ hmm < 1291405756 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Totally GNU-free? < 1291405768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Presumably. < 1291405781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But not nearly complete enough. I consider mount quite a useful command. < 1291405802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: busybox mocks me by not being buildable with anything more minimal than gcc/uClibc. < 1291405927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sweet, and the pcc/dietlibc toolchain mocks me by making programs segfault if I strip them in any way, even though this halves their size :P < 1291405951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems it's stripping the something or other. < 1291406117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the segfault may be my mistake. < 1291406316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291406592 0 :perdito!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: perdito < 1291407272 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291407304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the seg was your fault < 1291407455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, am I insane if I start manually unrolling fixed python loops in order to speed up the AI by avoiding to construct python tuples (note: it helps. By an order of magnitude) < 1291407484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1975 false/false < 1291407484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1971 true/true < 1291407486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is this possible :P < 1291407489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Suuuuuure :P < 1291407499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this: < 1291407500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # Unrolled to avoid constructing a python list. < 1291407500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : voidcnt += self.validate_pos_pair(state, x, y, 0, 1) < 1291407500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : voidcnt += self.validate_pos_pair(state, x, y, 1, 0) < 1291407500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : voidcnt += self.validate_pos_pair(state, x, y, 1, 1) < 1291407500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : voidcnt += self.validate_pos_pair(state, x, y, -1, 1) < 1291407509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dude just write the whole thing in cython < 1291407514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I am < 1291407519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in fact, write the whole thing in C < 1291407523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as a python extension < 1291407525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and just do < 1291407526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import foo < 1291407527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.run() < 1291407535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but for (x,y) in [...] will construct a list even in cython < 1291407560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and yeah writing it as C would be nice except the annoying variable length arrays for "possible moves" < 1291407569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mean manual memory management < 1291407607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just write the whole thing in Haskell as a Python extension. < 1291407609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1291407634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really. < 1291407644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is there a maximum you've hit so far? < 1291407665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can basically just allocate as global or local and in the worst cases use mmap(), malloc is totally avoidable. < 1291407676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know this because I usually refuse to use malloc.) < 1291407693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So I'm writing my own coreutils because I'm a stupid idiot. < 1291407696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well no, it varies of course < 1291407717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Awesome. < 1291407729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, theoretically it is probably a few less than the board size < 1291407735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2227 bin/echo < 1291407735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1975 bin/false < 1291407735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1971 bin/true < 1291407738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sizes in bytes. < 1291407742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Would you like a copy of the small portion of coreutils I've already written? It could save you a whole two hours. < 1291407747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No, I have no idea how false is bigger. Perhaps true relies on something being initialised to 0.) < 1291407750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What portion? < 1291407756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bear in mind that I'm not using stdio at all. < 1291407758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base64 basename cal cat chgrp cksum < 1291407767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you surprised that true is smaller than false? < 1291407770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh, it uses stdio. Well, never mind! < 1291407774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, I could port them. < 1291407775 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Those are approximately 2K too large < 1291407784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, generating a 0 takes fewer bytes than generating a 1 < 1291407788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on x86 < 1291407790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lawl :P < 1291407794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, they can be shell scripts. But /bin/sh is pretty big. < 1291407798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and true is 0 in the shell < 1291407801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My cat is POSIX compliant! < 1291407805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus true is smaller < 1291407811 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is pretty obvious < 1291407813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It supports the only option cat is required to have. ;) < 1291407818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They can be binaries that are approximately 2K smaller :-P < 1291407823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But -u is utterly unused :P < 1291407835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what exactly does -u actually do? < 1291407839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, yes, but I'm not Brian Raiter. < 1291407848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Use unbuffered IO! < 1291407863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It shouldn't be 4 bytes bigger, more like one or two < 1291407864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I do use his sstrip, though :P < 1291407869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, I'm compiling this with pcc. < 1291407874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc produces larger executables. < 1291407892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, I'd appreciate a tarball of your code, since I can port or refer to it. < 1291407909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What license? Or rather, how permissive can I convince you to make the terms you give it to me under? :P < 1291407927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can write a dobela interpreter in something like 4K, /bin/{false,true} should definitely be around 200 bytes at most :-P < 1291407931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on using the WTFPL. < 1291407942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Patches written in C welcome :P < 1291407955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're writing in C your compiler limits you < 1291407956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hmm, I could define _start and do _exit(0), couldn't I? < 1291407957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ISC license. < 1291407962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And tell it -nostartfiles. < 1291407965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But, but, WTFPL. < 1291407972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The ISC has more restrictions! < 1291407982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It requires including the license with redistributed copies.) < 1291407987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ELF headers emitted by most standard compilers are at least a few dozen bytes bigger than necessary < 1291407994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: By using restrictions you are SUPPORTING COPYRIGHT LAW. < 1291407999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: sstrip strips 'em. < 1291408008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * sstrip is a small utility that removes the contents at the end of an < 1291408008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * ELF file that are not part of the program's memory image. < 1291408008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * < 1291408008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Most ELF executables are built with both a program header table and a < 1291408008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * section header table. However, only the former is required in order < 1291408008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * for the OS to load, link and execute a program. sstrip attempts to < 1291408010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * extract the ELF header, the program header table, and its contents, < 1291408012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * leaving everything else in the bit bucket. It can only remove parts of < 1291408014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * the file that occur at the end, after the parts to be saved. However, < 1291408016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * this almost always includes the section header table, and occasionally < 1291408018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * a few random sections that are not used when running a program. < 1291408020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, flood. < 1291408022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1291408029 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does it rename the sections to something shorter? Presumably not. < 1291408032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This, incidentally, makes it impossible to decompile these with objdump. < 1291408050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ strings bin/false < 1291408051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t5M9 < 1291408051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/urandom < 1291408051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LD_PRELOAD < 1291408051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind < 1291408061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It eliminates the names altogether. < 1291408067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why is LD_PRELOAD in there? There's no dynamic linking going on.) < 1291408077 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Guess it didn't eliminate that then.) < 1291408092 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be possible to make true and false good bit less than 200 bytes, without mangling ELF headers... < 1291408094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At most that first string should be in there :-P < 1291408103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO! t5M9 is the SYMBOL OF BLOAT. < 1291408104 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember how long the ELF headers are < 1291408179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :248 bin/false < 1291408180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Happy? < 1291408185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void _start(void) < 1291408185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1291408185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : _exit(1); < 1291408185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1291408191 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1291408201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I made that noreturn, presumably it'd be EVEN SHORTER < 1291408211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But but true.asm is 45 bytes! < 1291408226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.asm is easily longer than the exe :-P < 1291408233 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, shorter < 1291408253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Erm, when assembled it's 45 bytes. < 1291408258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're fucking up my build system here :P < 1291408261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that annoy me with heuristics is that they are basically one huge fudge factor < 1291408268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes yes, they are by definition) < 1291408279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the smallest possible Linux-loadable ELF. < 1291408289 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux-version-specific, too :-P < 1291408314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Gah, I can't even use diet(1), because it sticks start.o in there :P < 1291408332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, um why do you care if it is less than 2 KB? < 1291408335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's diet(1) < 1291408341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because Deewiant cares. < 1291408350 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in Linux 2.4... AFAIK, those 45-byte executables don't work in 2.6 < 1291408359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "diet cc foo.c -o foo" handles all the -nostdwhatever stuff and appends the path to libc.a and start.o for dietlibc. < 1291408373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: dietlibc being the reason these things are this small in the first place, as opposed to 17K or whatever with uClibc :P < 1291408389 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc.a? start.o? What are these unnecessarities < 1291408403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you're using _start, you should probably just manually write the system call function. Thereby needing no libc. < 1291408408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://filebin.ca/cemkzt/pikhq-coreutils-0.1.tar.xz < 1291408408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, after all page size is 4096 bytes. There is no way you will allocate less than 4 KB thus. Also usually the file system block size is larger than a sector. 2 or 4 KB are common. Thus I think you are optimising pointlessly < 1291408428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, you are microoptimising into the silliness now < 1291408441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes I am. < 1291408458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What syscall number is exit again? < 1291408459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stop it. Or you will have to maintain cfunge in the afterlife < 1291408459 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make utilities detect argv[0] and work accordingly (sticking couple utilities together)? :-) < 1291408463 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 1 < 1291408466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: That's the loser's way out. < 1291408479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's __NR_exit from asm/unistd.h < 1291408514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually doing what Ilari said probably is better. It means you just need one entry in the page cache for true and false, and probably they will both fit into the same binary < 1291408521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: See pikhqbox.c in pikhq-coreutils. :) < 1291408522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How about I just use :P < 1291408529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just check if argv[0][0] is 't' or 'f' < 1291408530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does pikhqbox.c do < 1291408532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use that < 1291408533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define main progname_main < 1291408534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1291408536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "progname.c" < 1291408536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1291408538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, you win. < 1291408538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Baaah. < 1291408543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hardy har. :P < 1291408543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What if argv[0][0] is '/' < 1291408550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, yes. < 1291408552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm good point < 1291408554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So can I have assurance that that tarball is WTFPL'd? :P < 1291408556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise I can't use it. < 1291408563 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update: I've come back to "Enlight" as a name. I can't really come up with anything better, but I'm not sure it even fits now. < 1291408576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I hereby dual-license it under ISC and WTFPL. < 1291408584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Use at your discretion. < 1291408586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Thank thee kindly. < 1291408591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, WTFPL doesn't require discretion! < 1291408599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can go CERAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZY with it, so long as I WANT TO. < 1291408601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That was just a suggestion. < 1291408617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Thought experiment: is it a license violation to do something you don't want to to a WTFPL program?) < 1291408620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, check from the end for true/false (the second to last letter should be good. You need a strlen call probably though < 1291408627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest the following fix: < 1291408630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But, yeah. pikhqbox.c does in fact do #define main progname_main and #include "progname.c". < 1291408632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. You just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO. < 1291408637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Or you just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU DON'T WANT TO. < 1291408643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. Or you just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE NOT SURE WHETHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT. < 1291408652 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is too long and verbose < 1291408657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What if you're exec'd by something that gives you argv[0] = "hoody hoo" < 1291408660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about "do whatever" < 1291408661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1291408669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. You just DO WHAT THE FUCK. < 1291408683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, better but perhaps a bit unclear < 1291408690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I may require your assistance for commands such as mount. :P < 1291408698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay. < 1291408702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then you are fucked < 1291408708 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hence you don't do that. < 1291408711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but maybe default to one behaviour < 1291408723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dude, pikhqbox doesn't even use a hash table :P < 1291408729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but there are tools, such as busybox and grep iirc. which check argv[0] < 1291408743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I optimised for code simplicity. :) < 1291408743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some grep implementations at least < 1291408744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And even though every command starts with either b or c, you check the first character 5 times in the worst case. < 1291408751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for grep/fgrep/egrep < 1291408756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So did I! main is more complex than _start because main has a return value. < 1291408786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is pikhqbox? < 1291408789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If something was more work and harder to understand, I decided not to do it. < 1291408792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_syscall1(void, _exit, int, status) < 1291408794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have missed the code in it < 1291408797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does this not work... < 1291408797 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it* < 1291408803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: busybox, but for pikhqutils. < 1291408810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh < 1291408815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/cemkzt/pikhq-coreutils-0.1.tar.xz < 1291408832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I remember ripping the hell out of your cat implementation at one point. :P < 1291408838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you never find that coloured ls output is nice? < 1291408839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cal < 1291408840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not cat. < 1291408846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the current style < 1291408849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I changed it in response. < 1291408849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure I do. Who says I'm not going to implement that? < 1291408861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed. Now to rip the hell out of it with fresh new eyes! < 1291408861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because termcap is a pain? < 1291408866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :P < 1291408866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I replaced my eyeballs recently.) < 1291408874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (and surely you will not hard code it) < 1291408875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why the hell would I support anything that isn't ANSI-compatible...? < 1291408884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, go on: name one terminal. < 1291408891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because how else could you hook it up to that DEC terminal!? < 1291408896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: static const int lengths_of_month[] = {31, 28, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31}; < 1291408897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: omg bloat < 1291408900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :P < 1291408907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Clarity, not binary size. Sorry. < 1291408909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed. < 1291408914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you should have used char < 1291408915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not int < 1291408921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. BITMASK! < 1291408921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much bloat < 1291408922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BAAAH < 1291408924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, it is actually a pretty nice cal. < 1291408936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, 12*3 bytes wasted! < 1291408938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of that < 1291408947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It beats just about every other cal I could find. < 1291408948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: However you do sin heavily by using stdio. :p < 1291408959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which are pretty much all genetic UNIX, and are therefore horrifying. < 1291408967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also it is incorrect for the second month every 4th year unless you have that logic elsewhere < 1291408974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does. < 1291408976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, almost every 4th year < 1291408980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does it handle september 1752? < 1291408987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*September < 1291408989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1291408989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that when UK switched over? < 1291409002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is the one bug. < 1291409017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if it doesn't handle the Swedish switchover (I told you about THAT mess before) it is broken :P < 1291409023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The British Calendar Act of 1751 / Declared the day after Wednesday / September 2nd / 1752 / Would be Thursday / September 14 / 1752 < 1291409026 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You only need 1 bit for each o f the eleven non-february months (february needs leap year checking anyway so might as well handle it completely separately) < 1291409031 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/o f/of/ < 1291409034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is Unix tradition to support "cal sep 1752". < 1291409035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true < 1291409053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Source for above clarification on the UK switchover time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4Zf1eyWYFs) < 1291409060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cal sep 1752 < 1291409060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cal: illegal month value: use 1-12 < 1291409061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sorry, but I only wrote for C locale. < 1291409062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what ^ < 1291409072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, because Linux follows Unix tradition ... < 1291409075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Try 9 < 1291409079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1291409083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it works then < 1291409092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it just doesn't do named months < 1291409095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sep implies locales < 1291409102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh fuck off :P < 1291409110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh so it does < 1291409115 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What? :-P < 1291409116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Measurements and currencies and time: yes, locale-relevant. < 1291409126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Input and output messages: Fuck you, English-only :P < 1291409134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves that month. < 1291409150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_syscall1(void, _exit, int, status) < 1291409152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: srsly, why doesn't that work. < 1291409162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Why English only? That is discrimination. < 1291409164 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is "time" not an "input message" in this case < 1291409166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 2.6 removed that macro. < 1291409170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes it is! < 1291409174 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed it is! < 1291409177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1291409197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, I still have man _syscall... < 1291409201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean just the "1" variant? < 1291409204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It would be, if I hadn't decided it wasn't. < 1291409216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your decision is poor < 1291409217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Starting around kernel 2.6.18, the _syscall macros were removed from < 1291409217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : header files supplied to user space. Use syscall(2) instead. (Some < 1291409217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : architectures, notably ia64, never provided the _syscall macros; on < 1291409217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : those architectures, syscall(2) was always required.) < 1291409218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1291409241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have to actually write the system call handler manually. < 1291409242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nothing wrong with syscall() < 1291409244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I refuse to be unportable across architectures, how can I avoid using syscall(2) :P < 1291409260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Write _syscall for each architecture. < 1291409264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It goes through libc. < 1291409266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well _syscall would have been unportable too < 1291409268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and? < 1291409269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And does a *lot* of stuff. < 1291409285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it sets errno < 1291409286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1291409288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is annoying < 1291409399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, well _syscall would have been unportable too < 1291409400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1291409403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not across architectures < 1291409411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from linux's failure to implement it < 1291409426 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291409435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah. This fudge factor is chaotic < 1291409453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not across architectures apart from linux's failure to implement it <-- uh... what < 1291409482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: _syscall isn't unportable < 1291409492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux just didn't implement it on every arch, for no real reason < 1291409509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know what, fuck this. _exit(0) is fine :P < 1291409542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also linux specific of course (but that is a different kind of unportable) < 1291409544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then you're getting symbol collision for start; sorry. < 1291409554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No I'm not. < 1291409557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I link in libc.a but not start.o. < 1291409565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're doing that manually. < 1291409573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. Because I'm a crazy goddamn fucker. < 1291409579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/true bin/false: \ < 1291409580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CC=~/kitten/stage2/bin/pcc -Os -nostdlib -nostdinc -nostartfiles \ < 1291409580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ~/kitten/stage2/lib-x86_64/libc.a < 1291409632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at pikhq's cat.c, decides that it's so stdioy that it's easiest to rewrite. < 1291409635 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You sure are. < 1291409638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, that handling -u is pointless binary bloat.) < 1291409647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as long as it is smaller than file system block size and page size you don't gain anything by making it smaller < 1291409664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdio in cat? < 1291409665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1291409666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Apart from e-penis length. < 1291409678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What, I would have expected you to be an stdio-lover. < 1291409690 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why on earth < 1291409693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Other things I won't support: "-" as an argument name! /dev/stdin exists for a reason! < 1291409695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, fopen? < 1291409718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stdio is nice when you work with textual in-data. But fwrite is no better than write when you deal with non-textual data < 1291409731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwrite is no better than write ever :P < 1291409737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1291409743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, if someone implemented an stdio that didn't suck, I might change my opinion.) < 1291409748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 99% of the time it's just useless abstraction that you don't need. < 1291409750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but you wouldn't use either if working with textual data < 1291409756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf is convenient but almost always severely-bloating, and error-prone too. < 1291409765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nice formatting API would be, well, nice; I think libowfat has one. < 1291409767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can make printf that is small < 1291409777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but the API still sucks. :p < 1291409791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha! I just pioneered a NEW CONTROL STRUCTURE. < 1291409792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"else for" < 1291409794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you prefer? cout << setw(4) << i << endl; ? < 1291409816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It depends! < 1291409822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and what does else for do? < 1291409830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else for is for, except in an else clause. < 1291409841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably write_int_width(i, 4); < 1291409841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh how is that new? < 1291409842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1291409846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think libowfat has something like that. < 1291409849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because it isn't else { for ... }. < 1291409851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "else for!" < 1291409853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for"! < 1291409856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One whole indentation less! < 1291409862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know format strings are nice because translation works with them < 1291409866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike most other solutions < 1291409873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember you need to reorder stuff between languages < 1291409875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure, that's a language deficiency :P < 1291409885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I'm concerned we should all struggle with English until somebody makes an OS that doesn't suck. < 1291409894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, printf SO FAILS AT THAT. < 1291409900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The %s is %d years old." < 1291409903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you often need the whole sentence to translate it (the same word will translate to different words in different contexts) < 1291409904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't swap the %d and the %s there. < 1291409905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was < 1291409910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can < 1291409911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The %{0}s is %{1}d years old." < 1291409915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could reorder them, sure. < 1291409939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can reorder them like that when you translate the format string < 1291409946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using numbers like that < 1291409954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check man snprintf some day < 1291409957 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If your language isn't flexible enough to adjust the phrasing such that that's in the right order, then you don't deserve i18n :P < 1291409968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes lib.c! < 1291409972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most libraryiffic C file ever! < 1291409981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Noooon-poooortableeeeee. < 1291409989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is SUS iirc < 1291409990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pronounced "porta-blee".) < 1291409991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not C99 sure < 1291409993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but SUS < 1291410006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So it's useless on Windows. Deewiant! Yell at him! < 1291410015 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yells < 1291410034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Name my error-reporting function: oops, crap, damn, fuck, barf. < 1291410037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as if you would care about that. Your code is very linux specific it seems < 1291410046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hey, I UNDID THAT MISTAKE < 1291410047 0 :yorick!yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-ohzvhspxchsoidbm JOIN :#esoteric < 1291410051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I only depend on _start. < 1291410052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And _exit. < 1291410053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 糞 < 1291410061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: æe@ł < 1291410064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the time to start worrying about windows support is the point you use stdio instead of read and write < 1291410065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1291410082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He is unlikely to ever want to run this on Windows. < 1291410142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this seems to work, now I don't dare touch this heuristic. A tiny change, such as 0.26 to 0.25 for one constant completely changes the outcome. < 1291410150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed my point < 1291410180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so complaining about format string argument reordering for translation being unportable is... utterly stupid < 1291410204 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Figured out why connections to one hostname were slow: It has two IPv6 addresses. The first one is unreachable (timeouts) but the second is reachable. So the first address has to timeout and then it falls back into second address, resulting connection being established. < 1291410243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, use sctp with the multi-homed stuff < 1291410257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then establish to both at once and use whatever works < 1291410258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1291410308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/a-problem-in-dynamics/ < 1291410320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By Maxwell himself. < 1291410323 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in awe. < 1291410331 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if those two are the same host... < 1291410339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void cat(int fd) < 1291410340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1291410340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char c; < 1291410340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (read(0, &c, 1) > 0) < 1291410340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : write(1, &c, 1); < 1291410340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1291410345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Spot the unfortunately ugly-to-fix bug. < 1291410396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haverford.edu/physics/songs/rigid.htm < 1291410401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a song, too. < 1291410403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Erm, apart from read's first argument. < 1291410428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: bin/cat is annoyingly big because of strerror :( < 1291410434 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630] < 1291410450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : EFBIG See EOVERFLOW. < 1291410455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me this stands for Fucking Big. < 1291410502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You know you want the system call for read and write! < 1291410504 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably File < 1291410504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't know if those two are the same host... <-- hm true < 1291410566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects that stupid NATs don't handle sctp. < 1291410606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It occurs to me that not supporting - as an argument may ... break some things... slightly. < 1291410607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO NOW I AM < 1291410744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Feel like de-uglying my code? :P < 1291410757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Or just telling me what's really ugly.) < 1291410767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, YOU don't handle read errors either. < 1291410769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, why not. < 1291410770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right then, I won't! < 1291410786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/PWFX < 1291410800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The main ugliness is handling errors nicely, a thing that Unix has built up a wonderful reputation of NOT doing and making it extremely difficult to do. < 1291410810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm just going to rip out the part of cat() that handles errors because really what kind of thing fails at that point. < 1291410832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Still. main() is a bit ew. < 1291410847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, yours is NOT compliant. < 1291410851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It gives up after the first error. < 1291410855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Baaah. < 1291410865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ha ha! You fail at cat! < 1291410882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,] is enough < 1291410900 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291410920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait, you're right. < 1291410926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's okay to give up after the first error. < 1291410928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1291410935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Although slightly more irritating to use...) < 1291410947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, in fact, that's so irritating that I'm not going to do it. < 1291410955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Isn't it? Oh the dilemma.) < 1291411026 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm still COBOL Guy? < 1291411040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes. < 1291411105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think I'll do date(1) next, it's vaguely meaty. < 1291411106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh, I just increased speed quite a bit from realising I did the top node in alpha-beta wrong. < 1291411111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone use date -u? < 1291411170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes < 1291411187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go watch the only SG-1 episode I haven't seen < 1291411188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, very useful to get UTC < 1291411237 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty easy to fake methods returning classes in Newspeak < 1291411244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, might be a bit annoying < 1291411263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also if you don't support the gnu extension %s in the string, then there is no way to get UNIX timestamp from shell script < 1291411274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so it might be a GOOD extension to support < 1291411285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think FreeBSD has it too < 1291411289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a handful of other ones < 1291411292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not POSIX < 1291411355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define isflag(s, c) ((s)[0] == '-' && (s)[1] == c && !(s)[2]) < 1291411356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ useful. < 1291411398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, getopt? < 1291411410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pointless when you only have one single flag. < 1291411415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true < 1291411431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A better question would be "strcmp?", to which I reply: inflated the binary for no real gain. < 1291411456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, will you support %s in date's format string? < 1291411540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm using strftime. :P < 1291411556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 59K Apr 28 2010 /bin/date < 1291411556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 elliott elliott 6.4K Dec 3 21:25 bin/date < 1291411566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, wait, I forgot to actually PRINT the date. < 1291411630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, idea: multi-core to make the AI n times as fast (n depending on number of cores) < 1291411642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bin/date -u < 1291411642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1291411649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gdb on that then < 1291411659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or just look at the code. < 1291411663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (isflag(argv[1], 'u')) { < 1291411663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : utc = 1; < 1291411663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : argv++; < 1291411663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1291411663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (argv[1][0] == '+') fmt = argv[1] + 1; < 1291411665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mistake is obvious. < 1291411670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix trivial. < 1291411693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed it is obvious < 1291411701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (argv[1] && argv[1][0] == '+') fmt = argv[1] + 1; < 1291411701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada. < 1291411707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually there are two mistakes there < 1291411727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That argc is left out-of-sync? < 1291411733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deliberate; I don't use argc anywhere after that. < 1291411735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where does it say argv will have a NULL pointer after the last element? < 1291411742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That is guaranteed. < 1291411744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1291411765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So what's mistake #2? < 1291411783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none then < 1291411794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or do you check that argv[1] exists above the isflag check? < 1291411799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not that is another mistake < 1291411853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (argc > 1) { < 1291411855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do. < 1291411862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1291411863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I can avoid that outer conditional trivially... < 1291411891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what if someone passes you argv[0] = NULL? < 1291411897 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291411921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, by execv or such < 1291411924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then argv is {NULL, NULL, whatever} < 1291411927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1291411929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that < 1291411940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it could be {NULL, whatever} I think < 1291411948 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1291411958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, true. (But if you deny something an argv[0], you're just a monster.) < 1291411962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And everything will break on that :P < 1291411973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not stuff which checks for it < 1291411983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, why is $TZ not doing anything... < 1291411995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably your libc doesn't use it < 1291412000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably :P < 1291412013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're on a non-GMT timezone, presumably. Can you test bin/date for me? < 1291412021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it do zones like Europe/London or Europe/Stockholm? < 1291412027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Let's find out! < 1291412053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://filebin.ca/gwobyk/date < 1291412066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (I know that could be malicious, but if I managed to fit a virus into 6K of ELF, well, that would be impressive.) < 1291412066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't have TZ set, I have the normal /etc/localtime < 1291412069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right. < 1291412072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So that should work! < 1291412080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, /etc/timezone and the like. < 1291412086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no such file < 1291412089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But yeah, just check that "date" prints the right thing and "date -u" prints the right thing too :P < 1291412090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just /etc/localtime < 1291412115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ objdump -d date < 1291412115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :date: file format elf64-x86-64 < 1291412116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1291412119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for -D < 1291412123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's sstrip'd. < 1291412131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is sstrip? < 1291412133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: objdump can't look at stuff without pointless crap in the ELF file. < 1291412139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I refuse to run it < 1291412141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1291412141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sstrip is Brain Raiter of INTERCAL fame's strip tool. < 1291412147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Use a different disassembler? < 1291412157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, rm-ed the file. Get me one that works with objdump :P < 1291412160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, I'll upload a non-sstrip'd one. < 1291412173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one's almost 10K. < 1291412177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no issue < 1291412186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://filebin.ca/ktvtue/date < 1291412189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have more than 2000 baud :P < 1291412214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh there is a __valgrind symbol < 1291412223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, and LD_PRELOAD too. < 1291412226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to get rid of those. < 1291412232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much as I would dearly like to. < 1291412236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what is __valgrind used for exactly < 1291412240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1291412244 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, for valgrind obviously < 1291412248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but why does it need it) < 1291412267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__unified_syscall_16bit ? < 1291412278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh just run the damn thing :P < 1291412284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4001e4: 76 0f jbe 4001f5 <__you_tried_to_link_a_dietlibc_object_against_glibc> < 1291412285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291412291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed :P < 1291412310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does that bit work? < 1291412323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not sure. It's some crazy asm hack that makes an error appear with that if you try to do that. < 1291412335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably a careful clash with something glibc does. < 1291412338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under that name. < 1291412354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So does it work? :P < 1291412355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write(1, "Fri Dec 3 22:38:33 CET 2010", 28Fri Dec 3 22:38:33 CET 2010) = 28 < 1291412357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to work < 1291412361 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but it ignores my locales < 1291412363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What about with -u? < 1291412369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it does; dietlibc has no locale support. < 1291412373 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ LC_ALL=sv_SE ./date < 1291412373 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fri Dec 3 22:39:02 CET 2010 < 1291412374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it < 1291412382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Excuse me, try -u please. < 1291412384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, completely fucked up date format for sweden < 1291412387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it won't work with locales. < 1291412391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT LOCALES < 1291412392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just try -u. < 1291412406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't work < 1291412408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fri Dec 3 21:39:35 CET 2010 < 1291412411 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong timezone < 1291412413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in output < 1291412414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1291412419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, correct time I think < 1291412419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So gmtime() isn't sufficient for this. < 1291412428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tm = utc ? gmtime(&now) : localtime(&now); < 1291412429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes the hour change < 1291412430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I do. < 1291412435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the timezone does not < 1291412443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ date < 1291412443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fre dec 3 22:40:10 CET 2010 < 1291412446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ date -u < 1291412446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fre dec 3 21:40:12 UTC 2010 < 1291412456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./date < 1291412456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fri Dec 3 22:40:24 CET 2010 < 1291412459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./date -u < 1291412459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fri Dec 3 21:40:25 CET 2010 < 1291412500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://filebin.ca/vkhbbe/date < 1291412502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This might work. < 1291412508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does setenv("TZ", "UTC", 1). < 1291412517 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291412531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no < 1291412532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1291412538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph. < 1291412541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to think then. < 1291412552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also strace show nothing about the setenv < 1291412552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BTW, you will easily be able to link these against a libc that *does* do locales. < 1291412557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1291412561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1291412563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1291412564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, surely env is in kernel < 1291412572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What? < 1291412584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, it has to be. Otherwise env wouldn't work with exec < 1291412593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get the relevance. < 1291412595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thus it should show up in strace < 1291412598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I run < 1291412602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace ./date -u < 1291412602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why it doesn't. < 1291412614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you either uploaded the wrong version or it doesn't work < 1291412622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or env is done in a screwy way < 1291412626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might well be the case < 1291412888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how horrible is the multiprocessing module in python? < 1291412952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Global Interpreter Lock. < 1291412960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no it is the forking one < 1291412961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have to use subprocess instead for any kind of concurrency at all. < 1291412963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1291412965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acceptable. < 1291412975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but how bad is it to use < 1291412998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acceptable, I guess. I never have. < 1291413005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I also expect I need 16 bytes of shared memory (two floats) that I can update atomically. < 1291413008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1291413010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two doubles < 1291413107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah only lock sync. No sane sync < 1291413110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This makes nooooo sense at all :P < 1291413113 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sane = compare and swap) < 1291413220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: env is *definitely* not in the kernel. < 1291413256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but then how does the exec*() family of functions propagate the enviornment? < 1291413261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :environment* < 1291413270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The system call takes an environment argument. < 1291413276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : %D Equivalent to %m/%d/%y. (Yecch — for Americans only. Americans < 1291413276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : should note that in other countries %d/%m/%y is rather common. < 1291413276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This means that in international context this format is ambigu‐ < 1291413276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ous and should not be used.) (SU) < 1291413286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Americans, you are ignorant and backwards. In this manual page, I will enlighten you. Dumbfucks." < 1291413288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The libc maintains the actual environment. < 1291413312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, i prefer yyyy-mm-dd < 1291413357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is your strftime() long-now compliant? < 1291413367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer ISO 8601. < 1291413368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope! < 1291413375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, should fix that < 1291413377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that /is/ iso 8601 < 1291413383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: iso 8601 has the stupid flaw of using T as a separator < 1291413385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a space < 1291413388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it harder to read < 1291413391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no :P < 1291413399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't use a T there < 1291413401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Shame, that. < 1291413402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a space < 1291413403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If anyone is using Unix in the year 10,000... I pity them. < 1291413412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And laugh at their misfortunes, for they will be endless. < 1291413425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true but they could use the data files printed on current unix < 1291413430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE, ARCHAEOLOGISTS FROM THE FAR FAR FUTURE!!!!!! < 1291413431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If anyone is using Unix in the year 10,000... I pity them. < 1291413436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1291413436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WAS SAID BY ME, A PROMINENT CULTURAL FIGURE OF THIS AGE < 1291413442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM CONSIDERED TO BE INCREDIBLY WISE AND CHARISMATIC. < 1291413443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BY ALL. < 1291413446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS ALL, STOP READING NOW < 1291413448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you aren't < 1291413453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MY ENEMIES ARE ABOUT TO INTERCEPT THIS STREAM WITH MISINFORMATION) < 1291413456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH LOOK IT ALREADY HAPPENED < 1291413460 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291413477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway. they could use data files created in the next few years < 1291413479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over then < 1291413484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a non-unix system < 1291413495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then they'll have their own strftime. < 1291413525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes then in the future. But if they want to read a textual file created in the year 2011, it might have 4 digit dates < 1291413529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be annoying < 1291413543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads busybox date.c, and BREAKS THE LAW! < 1291413552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what law? < 1291413553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Reading GPL'd code for information on how to write a non-GPL'd program is ILLEGAL.) < 1291413560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be COPYRIGHT INFRINGING with my MIND. < 1291413565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1291413566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I hadn't told anyone... < 1291413581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (opt & OPT_UTC) < 1291413581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : putenv((char*)"TZ=UTC0"); < 1291413581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLZ < 1291413598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is so funny with that < 1291413611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, except for them casting a string to char < 1291413615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char* < 1291413617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1291413621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from const char* < 1291413623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to char* < 1291413624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1291413629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just that that's what I've been doing < 1291413631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with setenv < 1291413633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't working < 1291413639 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, different libc? < 1291413646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if ENABLE_FEATURE_DATE_NANO < 1291413646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* libc has incredibly messy way of doing this, < 1291413646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * typically requiring -lrt. We just skip all this mess */ < 1291413646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : syscall(__NR_clock_gettime, CLOCK_REALTIME, &ts); < 1291413646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else < 1291413646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : time(&ts.tv_sec); < 1291413648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1291413650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'all crazy. < 1291413654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, indeed. < 1291413664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It may be one of those dietlibc bugs that they won't fix because it'd increase the size. :p < 1291413677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also clock_gettime is -lrt on linux, it is -lc on *bsd < 1291413685 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to complicate the thing < 1291413694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, clock_gettime is *nice* though < 1291413696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's nice! I'm using time()! < 1291413701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's goddamn date(1)! < 1291413718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about %N ? < 1291413726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1291413736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, not POSIX < 1291413739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1291413740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nano seconds :P < 1291413750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ date +%N < 1291413751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :212106062 < 1291413751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orn ot? < 1291413753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Or not? < 1291413753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/o // < 1291413758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's smaller than +%s, even. < 1291413760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes nanoseconds in current second < 1291413761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291413763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1291413763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1291413767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not :P < 1291413786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nanoseconds since 1970 would be absurd < 1291413788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% date +%N < 1291413788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%N < 1291413803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what system? < 1291413808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: My date is so evil, it doesn't even let you set the current time with it. < 1291413810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right! < 1291413810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BSD I presume < 1291413813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's NON-XSI-COMPLIANT. < 1291413816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solaris 11 Express < 1291413820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh! < 1291413823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ...I love you. < 1291413826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Express? < 1291413828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me you installed it JUST FOR THAT < 1291413830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In like 3 seconds. < 1291413837 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1291413842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get a DS9K just to irritate people. < 1291413847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% uptime < 1291413848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 12:03am up 11 day(s), 7:13 < 1291413850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he installed it to run oracle mysql on it I guess :P < 1291413856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The first time a Sun has ever been up 11 days! < 1291413857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1291413865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *Oracle'sSQL < 1291413872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they named it that? < 1291413873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ah, but it's not Sun anymore is it < 1291413876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, but I just did :P < 1291413887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although before the update it was up for a few months) < 1291413899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No, you see, MySQL isn't YOUR SQL. It's MY SQL. It serves MY corporate interests, see?" < 1291413925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes that was obvious when you said it wasn't the actual name < 1291413926 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And yes, Express. I don't know why it's called that. < 1291413971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because it's FAST! < 1291413980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1291413983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I conclude that it is impossible to do anything with compare and swap from within python < 1291414135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :openmp doesn't support CAS? < 1291414219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Alas, I cannot do all program that don't parse args as _start. < 1291414222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: /home/elliott/kitten/stage2/lib-x86_64/libc.a(stackgap.o): In function `stackgap': < 1291414228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's for syscall-only programs. < 1291414243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. Is getcwd a syscall? < 1291414255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, whatever. < 1291414457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dynamically-linked glibc versions of what I have so far total to 210K. My statically-linked dietlibc versions: 18K. < 1291414464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's in decimal Ks.) < 1291414467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just going from wc -c.) < 1291414703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm cython allows you to release the GIL < 1291414709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with lots and lots of warnings < 1291414711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Good luck with that. < 1291414718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I'm not quite that insane < 1291414728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nice. < 1291414733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since the "generate valid moves" code still uses a python list < 1291414771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, all of the tight loop code except for that compiles to pure C now though < 1291414777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Should I bother supporting [:upper:] and all that crap in tr? < 1291414794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fuck it, tr can wait. < 1291414962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I feel like I'm doing the easy stuff and avoiding the harder stuff. Any suggestions for what to do next? < 1291414965 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-38-68.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291414969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill, maybe? < 1291414979 0 :perdito!~perdito@koln-4d0b7604.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291415154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If I go through sys_siglist to convert a signal name into a number, am I a bad person? < 1291415191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that won't work. < 1291415528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : __GNU_nonoption_argv_flags_ < 1291415529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This variable was used by bash(1) 2.0 to communicate to glibc < 1291415529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : which arguments are the results of wildcard expansion and so < 1291415529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : should not be considered as options. This behavior was removed < 1291415529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in bash(1) version 2.01, but the support remains in glibc. < 1291415532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dear god. < 1291415613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nostalgias at http://www.ccs3.lanl.gov/mega-math/workbk/infinity/inhotel.html < 1291415657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That's *revolting*. < 1291415727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc was in bed with bash? < 1291415746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, not gcc < 1291415762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...all programs? < 1291415764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah. It totally is. < 1291415767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: glibc. < 1291415771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by extension every program that used getopt. < 1291415785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I love how it took them exactly 0.01 version to remove that hideous abomination. < 1291415791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe *a single person noticed*. :P < 1291415821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ha! kill can't use getopt. < 1291415827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because kill takes -FOO for every signal FOO. < 1291416091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291416299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm, the version is a unit? < 1291416305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it measure? < 1291416374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1291416390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What the fuck. Apparently "kill -l $?" has to print out what signal killed the relevant process. < 1291416392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does anyone use that? < 1291416397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an esoteric concept! < 1291416607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm going to try pypy < 1291416648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *What the fuck*? < 1291416723 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I've used that, but I can't remember if I had any good reason to < 1291416782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah... wut. < 1291416866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, zuh? < 1291416893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary size just inflated after separating out barf.h. TODO: diagnose. (I think it's strlen calls.) < 1291416898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1291416906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So kill -l prints what pid was killed by? < 1291416916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No... $? is the exit status. < 1291416941 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291416959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aaaaaaaah. < 1291416976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :die agnostic < 1291416991 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :HELP COMPUTER | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1291417002 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-42-156.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291417007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: For some reason, kill keeps giving me "Invalid argument" back. < 1291417056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1291417124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches pypy compile itself < 1291417188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wikipl.com/index.php/Main_Page < 1291417214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, minecraft bug update (fixes the forgetting port bit and other stuff) < 1291417216 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also uh < 1291417218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* Added lakes and rare lava pools, both on the surface and randomly in caves." < 1291417222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that a bug update < 1291417226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1291417243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, highly esoteric. < 1291417268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291417334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lobeX6ft6PA "This sounds absurd, therefore it couldn't possibly be physical reality" (Note: I'm pretty sure everyone is aware that no one these days says that the universe is infinitely old, but still) < 1291417375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, let's make it something awesomely crazy! < 1291417394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you go ahead < 1291417401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, Hoyle went to his grave swearing by a modified Steady State theory. < 1291417478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Hoyle was not a nutcase. < 1291417533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My browser froze. Unfortunatly, I was in the middle of playing a YouTube video < 1291417543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is now an annoying sound emmenating from my speakers < 1291417546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*emminating? < 1291417569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, was it another video by that idiot? < 1291417636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's "emanating". < 1291417639 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know what it means but pypy compiling itself draws pretty colour coded output < 1291417643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ASCII art < 1291417653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mandelbro6 iirc < 1291417656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brot < 1291417660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why < 1291417676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1291417677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why compute that while it compiles itself? < 1291417685 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it would slow down the thing < 1291417708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its prolly hardcoded. also instant anyway... < 1291417734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very pretty when interrupted by warning messages < 1291417746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it does line up properly below the warning < 1291417806 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-4-214.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291417816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291417869 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291417899 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how does WikiPL work right now? < 1291417909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is it headed towards being WikiFalcon? < 1291417934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wikipl.com/index.php/WPL_Documentation < 1291417949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just found this on reddit so i don't know much more than you :D < 1291417976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you cannot currently register automatically for security reasons < 1291417990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how are we meant to make it AWESOME < 1291418005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaiu each article contains python code for part of the language implementation < 1291418071 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291418121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1291418128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH, I was listening to some music < 1291418188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, was it music from the late 90s or early 2000s? < 1291418195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1291418221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly thinks of some music that he likes for nostalgic reasons < 1291418232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This song isn't one of those though < 1291418240 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE_FhAGYy8w < 1291418377 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291418411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the reddit post is http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/efuve/wikipl_the_free_programming_language_that_anyone/ < 1291418480 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wikipl.com/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=edit < 1291418484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's no Python! < 1291418515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are obviously a few exception pages :D < 1291418561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it should be haskell < 1291418564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less sandboxing needed too < 1291418602 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be Newspeak. Less sandboxing needed too < 1291418606 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, not atm) < 1291418644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not functional. < 1291418664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-functional languages are really just relics of the past, making new ones is basically laughable. < 1291418691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell, and (in the future) Newspeak. What other nicely sandboxed languages are there? [Although I must point out that in Haskell, code either has full access to the outside world or no access to the outside world] < 1291418734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, in the future all languages will be @! < 1291418743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the latter is not true < 1291418752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build more access control on top of IO < 1291418790 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291418829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Justin Bieber Wikipedia Page Hacked With Homosexual Remark" --spam link on reddit < 1291418838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: Someone vandalised Wikipedia for WHOLE SECONDS (probably the article author) < 1291418853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wikipedia (The Free Encyclopedia) is usually a reliable source of info so we aren’t sure how this one got by them. This is the first time we have seen someone sabotage a celebrity’s Wiki page. At the time it is unknown who is responsible for hacking Justin Bieber’s bio." < 1291418866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, The Onion? < 1291418870 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chris Pressey made some new ideas for esoteric programming language. I like this < 1291418872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1291418872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam. < 1291418935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (cur | prev) 04:08, 2 December 2010 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) m (45,439 bytes) (Reverting possible vandalism by Tom191 to version by Silvergoat. Questions, comments, complaints -> BRFA Thanks, ClueBot NG. (84172) (Bot)) < 1291418935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (cur | prev) 04:08, 2 December 2010 Tom191 (talk | contribs) (51 bytes) (←Replaced content with 'Justin Bieber is squirrel in a blender. He is gay.') < 1291418939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stayed there for a whole ZERO MINUTES. < 1291419109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wanna DEBUG MY KILL?? < 1291419262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION desperately wants to know why scrolling via trackpad isn't the same as scrolling via mouse wheel < 1291419361 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, we should totally do an esoteric version of wikiPL on the esolangs wiki. < 1291419374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We couldn't do it there, if it's automated at all. < 1291419382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a separate wiki, sure. < 1291419387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? < 1291419394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because the wiki doesn't have any patches? < 1291419400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe on that hackiki thing? < 1291419418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what patches do you need for "pull page source from site, extract code"? < 1291419446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It'd need protecting anyway. < 1291419451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, you could hack it into hackiki. < 1291419469 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: DottyWeb does pull page source from site and extract code but it is not built-in to the wiki program, you need to downloadit separately. < 1291419476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wikipl.com/index.php/HelloWorld Wow, way overengineered. < 1291419482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML! Unit tests! < 1291419491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Camel-case thus failure at PEP-8! < 1291419496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wikipl.com/index.php/Test001 wtf web interface < 1291419500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought this was a collaborative programming language < 1291419532 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my hatred for it shot up when you said "XML". < 1291419564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also underground lakes from now on hm < 1291419593 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should all be written in Smallnewfactor obviously < 1291419605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smallnewfalctor < 1291419626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have a feature that busybox doesn't! BLOAT! < 1291419905 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291420067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, *Smallnewfalctorscala < 1291420077 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1291420079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scalamallnewfalctor < 1291420255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/IgWe < 1291420256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handy! < 1291420293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still can't kill processes though. < 1291420300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because pikhq won't look at the code. < 1291420345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't Creative Commons have a "no attribution required" option? < 1291420437 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because somewhere out there is the Anti-Sgeo < 1291420567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it does < 1291420574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: doesn't, not does. < 1291420581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh you mean < 1291420585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it requires people to *not* attribute you? < 1291420586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's non-Free < 1291420590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1291420591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh, stupid < 1291420594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just release it anonymously < 1291420675 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291420689 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I don't mean it should require people to *not* attribute me. I mean it should provide the option that they can attribute me or not depending on their choice < 1291420716 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CC PD? < 1291420764 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do want share-alike to be the condition < 1291420778 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That share-alike is require but attribute is optional