< 1291852826 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291854052 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291854284 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291854418 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1291854489 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291854491 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1291855786 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1291855895 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291856037 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291856370 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291856626 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291856761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay the A20 line turns on properly. < 1291856808 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1291857155 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291857433 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291857465 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1291857673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1291857836 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291857933 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1291858146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the idea http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/TNTNT that you have to write a program in the form of a proof, and then run in the loop to figure if it is works that is the output? < 1291858170 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is its computational class? < 1291858265 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291858289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is many things blocked from being typed in esolang wiki? These things should only be blocked for users that is not autoconfirmed accounts. < 1291860375 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291861693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1291861958 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This channel speaks not english. Please using other channel unless chinese! | 该通道目前正在红色中国的控制权。请继续深奥的活动不受干扰。 | 光榮的中華民國應收回這個主題的一些日子! | חנוכה שמח, הגויים! | sed อยู่เสมอดีกว่า Perl! | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1291862237 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mi lojbo tavla < 1291862273 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.i la lojban du lo bangrjonue < 1291862997 0 :goneriku_!~gono@c-98-231-112-81.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291863129 0 :goneriku!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291863142 0 :goneriku_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :goneriku < 1291863626 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291863646 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291864394 0 :goneriku!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1291864489 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291866925 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291866961 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291867212 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291868610 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291870072 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291870117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This IRC client does not support sending non-ASCII (but it is capable to receive non-ASCII). I cannot type in Chinese. < 1291870126 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially not simplified Chinese. < 1291870524 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just think of everything as a "hanzi compound" < 1291870529 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made up of multiple ascii characters < 1291870529 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291870585 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good thing nobody on this channel speaks Chinese then! < 1291870729 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am making the game with some ideas based on the ideas of Godel,Escher,Bach < 1291870748 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you also make the game with some ideas based on the ideas of Godel,Escher,Bach, too, please. < 1291870773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :這個通道是專門為追求深奧的話題在計算和編程語言。 | This is channel having esoteric programming computer language. We talking in chinese here, if english find other channel please! | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1291871002 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291871377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Indeed, we must make a point of using only languages nobody here speaks. < 1291871395 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes! < 1291871442 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to find somebody Taiwanese to make the first part /perfect/ :P < 1291871444 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1291871472 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you play Taiwanese mahjong? < 1291871496 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can play Japanese mahjong. < 1291871534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wow. There has been a message intentionally broadcast into space in Klingon. At the hypothetical coördinates of Qo'nos. < 1291871560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It invited Klingons to attend a performance of the opera 'u'. < 1291871568 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Although I'm sure that skill would bring me well on my way to understanding traditional Chinese, I cannot. < 1291871568 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ... must ... kill ... < 1291871571 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There is? < 1291871601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Said opera was entirely in Klingon. < 1291871635 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not need to understand much Chinese to play mahjong, except for the numbers 1-9 and the compass directions. They are the same in Japanese, also. < 1291871689 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does 'u' mean in Klingon? Does it mean anything? < 1291871720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 一二三四五六七八九十北南東西? < 1291871740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: And it means "universe" or "universal". < 1291871835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ' are significant. < 1291871849 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes those are the numbers and compass directions. However, ten is not used in most forms of mahjong. < 1291871861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, you said "1-9" < 1291871863 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I do know the ' are significant, they do represent Klingon letter. < 1291871885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Star Trek used a ... system that corresponds with real space? < 1291871901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to just saying "Oh, we're x light-years away from Y"? < 1291871923 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know that when writing Klingon texts using English alphabet, ' is a letter and uppercase/lowercase are used to represent different letters instead of grammar. < 1291871949 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They used quadrants, isn't it? < 1291871987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' is, like in most languages using it for a *phoneme*, the glottal stop. < 1291872074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what about within a quadrant? < 1291872125 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know, actually. < 1291872172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Trek is one of those universes where everything that the fans can explain, has been. < 1291872181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The power of fanon! < 1291872219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about "Threshold" ::trollface:: < 1291872257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Threshold has been retconned out of existence. < 1291872272 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, in mahjong, the directions are always go in the order East, South, West, North. The East player always plays first. In Japanese mahjong, East always pays and receives double (before other calculations). (If Wareme is used, Wareme also pays and receives double, but *after* other calculations.) < 1291872285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do reruns of VOY show Threshold? < 1291872294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I hope not. < 1291872305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But anyways, the episode is officially not canon. < 1291872312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because it sucked that much. < 1291872352 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should watch it! < 1291872362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But somehow it won an Emmy. < 1291872366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for makeup) < 1291872387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Its *author* says it's shit. < 1291872424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it happen to be So Bad It's Good? < 1291872432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Bad It's OHMYGODWHY < 1291872468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like the infamous Star Wars Christmas Special. < 1291872489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *Holiday* Special. < 1291872643 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any comments about TNTNT? < 1291872704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Christian TNT? < 1291872727 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1291872737 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look on the esolang wiki. < 1291873100 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291873209 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1291873216 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1291873266 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291873339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o/ < 1291873339 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          | < 1291873340 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         /< < 1291873460 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the computational class of RecurseMe? What is the computational class of SimulRecurseMe? < 1291873879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RecurseMe looks TC, but I'm tired < 1291873889 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have BF style test/loops < 1291873919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although how is "subroutine" defined? < 1291874116 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The only subroutine is the program itself. < 1291874125 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can call itself recusively. < 1291874132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the Talk page for more information. < 1291874160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's not a BF-style loop < 1291874293 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291874339 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, correct, it is not a BF-style loop. The program is only allowed to call itself recursively. < 1291874939 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291875486 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291875520 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291875717 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: omghaahhahaohwow < 1291876226 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291876704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the channel doesn't care, but I like to keep a log < 1291876726 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m, I think I can do without < 1291876736 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also the public log already available < 1291876840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, I like to abuse that public log to keep a record of when I take certain medications (e.g. Tylenol) < 1291877020 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: O, that is what you mean. < 1291877124 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What random number generating algorithm do you think is suitable for TeXnicard? Is the one in METAFONT acceptable? (If so, I can reference it in the bibliography of TeXnicard.) < 1291877214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the one where I go back in time to Tuesday and prevent ... it feels like I'm making a joke < 1291877218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't joke < 1291877261 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you go back in time to ... < 1291877271 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291877311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't, obviously < 1291877313 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291877828 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1291878349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is one of the old problems in anarchy golf: Emulate the printer-oriented 'banner' command in BSD. You are given input like: banner -w 48 ":-)" < 1291878394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This 'banner' program is installed in the system, but it is not in the path. In addition, it adds extra spaces to the end of the lines, which must be removed for this golf competition. < 1291878420 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without looking, do you know which programming language has the shortest solution, who the winner is, and/or how long the shortest solution is? < 1291878561 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291881402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it is probably shell < 1291881445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something along the lines of /path/to/banner $@|sed 's/ *$//' should work < 1291881599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1291881600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1291881710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to go look; but I like the "eval /*/*/`dd`" solution of building the banner command to invoke in the (not shortest) bash solution. < 1291881827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's given as input, not as a command line argument.) < 1291881872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is "not shortest" in the sense of "not shortest, globally"; it was the shortest shell one.) < 1291882138 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That was someone's solution, to try that. But the shortest was vi < 1291882178 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no, wait, that wasn't someone's solution. < 1291882184 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except for the 'sed' part) < 1291882257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like the vi one too. < 1291882301 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two in vi, both of them shortest than the shortest shell script solution, though. < 1291882866 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few strange things on anarchy golf, such as the "123" problem and the "Check for brainwave activity" problem. And others. < 1291883860 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1291885145 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329f50.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291886624 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291886645 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291886649 0 :augur_!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291886701 0 :terry123!~xiang@183.16.104.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291887487 0 :terry123!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291887772 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1291889363 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291889934 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291890892 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291891455 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291895011 0 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291895041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1291895044 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais532 < 1291895047 0 :ais532!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1291895048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1291896140 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291897010 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte < 1291897805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1291898291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm reading the Cocoa memory management conventions, because I was vaguely interesting < 1291898301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turns out they're exactly the same as the ones Perl uses internally < 1291899472 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291899548 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291899573 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291899842 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291901437 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291901489 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1291901755 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291902158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291902481 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1291903018 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1291903054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you've read the x86-64 manual, does it say anywhere "all x86-64 chips have to support the short method of turning A20 on (Fast A20)?" < 1291903057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say "yes" < 1291903161 0 :Phantom_Hoover!c1279ec3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.39.158.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291903378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Well, considering that I’m a computer science major, i figure that I know a great deal about programming and the such. However, I found this book to be simply incomprehensible. I’ve never wasted more time than I did trying to read this book. Worse than its failed attempts at instruction are its failed attempts at humor to “liven up” its instruction. After taking my class, i burnt this book." --Amazon reviewer, on SICP < 1291903393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/" +W/"W/ < 1291903526 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291903917 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, egositical CS majors. < 1291903935 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where would we be without them? < 1291903953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: in a world with much better coding standards. < 1291904013 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you read your SICP today? < 1291904031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say they give CS a bad name, but it's known to be mathematically impossible to give CS a worse name than it already has. < 1291904041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: i'm actually going to buy the physical sicp :P < 1291904047 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1291904072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: can you believe the price for the hardback is £60.75 from amazon, and that's a discount of £3.20! < 1291904079 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "CS majors blamed for Holocaust, global warming." < 1291904081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although third-party sellers have it new from £49.99, ha ha, how cheap. < 1291904082 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can readily believe it < 1291904085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we already are < 1291904102 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because science books are shockingly expensive and used books sometimes criminally cheap :o < 1291904104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, congratulations on getting the CS major. < 1291904112 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once in a while, I buy one of those one cent book on Amazon < 1291904117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wut < 1291904121 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pay a thousand time more for the shipping < 1291904131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: criminally cheap? cheapest used hardback for SICP on amazon is £42.89. < 1291904136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: softback, £19.94. < 1291904147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "we". Implying you \in CS majors. < 1291904161 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell < 1291904162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh. Well, it seems inevitable. < 1291904169 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once bought a $170 book :3 < 1291904172 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not me < 1291904177 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked for it for Christmas < 1291904196 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of print hardback logic book < 1291904210 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just asking for troubles < 1291904244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: bastard :P < 1291904257 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why meeee < 1291904289 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if you're murdered by a psychotic mental health worker? < 1291904309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't i tell you, they're all in my mind < 1291904316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: asking for an out-of-print hardback logic book < 1291904374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1291904423 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291904449 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even worse < 1291904459 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, I had to buy an out of print FEYNMAN book < 1291904468 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you let a Feynman book go out of print? < 1291904477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The only thing the AMD64 manuals say about the A20 line is that the processor has it; it's an external line, even the short method (out to 0x92) involves external circuitry, so it's a system-level, not a chip-level property. (Okay, to be more literal there's also A20-related stuff in the virtualization bits, but anyhow.) < 1291904485 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, it was reedited a few months afterwards < 1291904513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, rephrase: Has anyone ever made an x86-64 machine that does not support the fast a20 method; if yes, what is their address, and can I have a chainsaw? < 1291904522 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291904725 0 :augur!~augur@64.134.243.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291904726 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291904773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not having it available sounds somewhat strange, but I can't seem to find any sort of standard mandating it. (Unless you're willing to limit yourself to EFI machines, where it of course is not an issue.) < 1291904874 0 :augur!~augur@64.134.243.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291905146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latest actual complaint about fast A20 not working I can find (with little searching) is someone's 500 MHz P3-mobile laptop, where the fast A20 method works at first, but breaks during hibernate, since only the keyboard-controller way is properly saved. < 1291905226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And some random dude on the osdev forums claims "the BIOS function will use the best method, and will be supported on modern computers", but would you trust a random dude?) < 1291905436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does EFI specify that A20 is always on or something? Or does it just not have it at all? :) < 1291905462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And considering I get most of my info from the OSDev wiki, I'm sort of in the business of trusting random dudes, but not random dudes who haven't edited a wiki page, that's for sure! < 1291905479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the full, safe keyboard controller method took up a whole 1/5th of my bootloader space. < 1291905490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EFI boot programs are ran in protected mode with a flat memory map, so I think it's safe to assume it's on at that point. < 1291905902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OR IS IT < 1291906034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmn. < 1291906039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The AMD64 Chipset Manuals guarantee I/O port 92, bit 1 to be available for use" says the talk page. < 1291906087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Good enough for me. < 1291906109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But now I really want a DS9K EFI machine that goes into protected mode with a flat memory map *without* turning the A20 line on. < 1291906166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that Brendan guy from the forum's OS says it works even if turning the A20 line on fails, it just doesn't use those addresses... and his bootloaders all note all the faulty memory in the system so the OS can avoid using them... I think what we have here is someone absolutely devoted to the Right Thing and it's why he said his bootloaders (plural) took days each to write. :p < 1291906380 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291906406 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1291906466 0 :augur!~augur@64.134.243.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291906605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that topic is /incredibly/ stereotypical < 1291906618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't know what the Chinese portion says, though < 1291906640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be hilarious if it were a translated version of the English into similarly broken Chinese, except with the words "English" and "Chinese" swapped < 1291906664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is dedicated to the pursuit of esoteric topics in computing and programming languages." < 1291906671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There *is* freely available machine translation nowadays. < 1291906711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, but it's slightly broken < 1291906718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aww, I thought it was still the old one (saying the channel was in the control of Red China) < 1291906723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, you can't distinguish intentionally slightly broken translations from perfect ones < 1291906731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's often good enough for deciphering the meaning, anyhow. < 1291906788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :這是通道有深奧的編程計算機語言。在這裡,我們用英語交談,如中文,請找其他渠道 | This is channel having esoteric programming computer language. We talking in chinese here, if english find other channel please! | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1291906798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in traditional chinese, just to make it more unhelpful than it already is < 1291906812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is the channel has profound programming computer language. Here, we talk in English, such as Chinese, please look for other channels" < 1291906838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The channel is currently being Red China's control. Please continue to esoteric activities without interference." | "Glorious Republic of China should recover some of this theme day!" | "Happy Hanukkah, the Gentiles!" (last one in Hebrew) seems to have been mostly the previous topic. < 1291906865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i cleaned out the qdb, by the way; i forget if i told you < 1291906885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a dream today where there were only 4 quotes left in the qdb due to me removing all the crappy ones, but they were still numbered in the 200s < 1291906925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you remember what the quotes were? < 1291906972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more than one line, I know that much < 1291906981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, I don't; I don't think I looked at the text in the dream < 1291906999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a truly hilarious dream last night, incidentally, but it made no sense on the meta-level < 1291907006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat :D < 1291907023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, the dreams are inconsistent with reality, but you look back on it and think "that's the sort of dream it makes sense for me to have" < 1291907047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, the dream was internally consistent, but it made no logical sense for me to be able to have them < 1291907060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:24:45 Do reruns of VOY show Threshold? < 1291907062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1291907064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(90% sure) < 1291907090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i fear that even if you explained the dream this would make no sense to me :) < 1291907124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:40:40 I meant, I like to abuse that public log to keep a record of when I take certain medications (e.g. Tylenol) < 1291907140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Please tell me you're worried you'll accidentally overdose on Tylenol even while being paranoid about it, so I can chuckle. < 1291907180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it contained a quiz show, and I didn't know the answer to some of the questions, yet I dreamed them anyway < 1291907189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, me in the dream didn't know the answers, but the person setting the questions did < 1291907205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: name some questions and answers, and let's see if they're right IRL :P < 1291907208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, that's an entirely plausible situation normally, yet; how could I know the answer to the question to be able to dream it, and yet not know the answer? < 1291907249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You have some money. < 1291907250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[I'm korean so they will be won]" --http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?kM4_ what is this i don't even < 1291907254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't remember all the details (in fact, I missed some of the questions within the dream, due to radio interference), but the nature of the quiz was such that even knowing the answer the questions were almost impossible to answer < 1291907260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OMFG... There isn't any money... < 1291907260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to buy some pen..." < 1291907260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How sad... (What a stupid guy... And then.. You have to buy pen first!!!) < 1291907298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because as the quiz was being done over the radio, in order to avoid cheating, you couldn't answer in words, you instead had to come up with a piece of music that related to your answer and hum it < 1291907307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1291907322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i would listen to that < 1291907344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember one of the early questions had "pedantic" as its answer, and it was really easy except that neither I nor the other contestant could think of an appropriate piece of music < 1291907368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, you know the anagolf challenge i made where you had to output one more each program run? what was it called? < 1291907377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 3? < 1291907388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you made that? I noticed it, but there's no author information < 1291907412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just "123", if it's that one. < 1291907420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, perhaps I did < 1291907421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I /solved/ it < 1291907435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i didn't make it < 1291907440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my solution was the longest < 1291907443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly egotistical mind :) < 1291907450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My solution was the only non-cheating one though, I think: < 1291907451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puts 1;x=File.read("test.rb").sub("puts","puts 1+");File.open("test.rb","w").write(x) < 1291907457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's also cheating < 1291907470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not as cheating as $$%n < 1291907494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aha, I made this one: http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Calculator < 1291907500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much /more/ cheating for some of the large programs < 1291907514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, nobody has solved without cheating, it seems < 1291907515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including you < 1291907516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can write the solution into files with a really large program, then read it back with a small one < 1291907518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well < 1291907520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without cheating much < 1291907539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it records the first size < 1291907544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't < 1291907549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, they removed file save and load altogether < 1291907549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1291907551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prevent abuse < 1291907559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"they"; you mean shinh < 1291907563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1291907566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's really sad, I liked that solution < 1291907576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it was abusable < 1291907609 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Befunge solution for 123 is oh-so-complicated, since there's no PID, so you have to do it with ?, and you have to waste at least a second during the execution, all attempts at the same second get their random numbers seeded with the same. < 1291907614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how much will people hate me if I make a challenge which is to print out a string of data from /dev/urandom < 1291907629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to try and rely in imperfections in the PRNG somehow :) < 1291907632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd just be boring, like hello world < 1291907638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urandom's cryptosecure < 1291907660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but if the PRNG has a major flaw... < 1291907667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it doesn't, of course < 1291907678 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1291907681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, I'm going to pipe it through cat -v < 1291907682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there was a hilarious anagolf question which wanted a sequence of numbers printed < 1291907686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can rely on the repeated M- and the like < 1291907687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was mersenne twister with seed 1 < 1291907694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1291907707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a hilariously short solution in the languages which used mersenne twister and didn't seed by default < 1291907727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, maybe I should seed a PRNG with random not-so-big numbers, and not reveal the seeds < 1291907735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can get a short program by brute-forcing what the seed was < 1291907757 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what the PRNG was. < 1291907763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd note that. < 1291907804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-crypto-oriented ones generally have better methods for finding the internal state than just brute-forcing. < 1291907819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat -vet; a vet for cats. < 1291907826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So I'd use a crypto-oriented one! :p < 1291907838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd make all the seeds less than a 8192 or so, so it's not "too" hard. < 1291907850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still disappointed you can kill cat with just one kill(1) invocation, it should take nine < 1291907886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Error: invalid title (use [a-zA-Z0-9_ ])" < 1291907887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah < 1291907889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? < 1291907890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291907891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1291907903 0 :augur!~augur@64.134.243.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291907905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also have a "--cat" flag for kill(1) that'd send the same signal nine times. < 1291907926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, no < 1291907929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or just use -9 < 1291907929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be called curiosity(1) < 1291907937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: -9 kills once with SIGKILL... < 1291907939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nine times < 1291907943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh < 1291907947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's the appropriate number. < 1291907949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-N is the signal id, not the # of times to kill. < 1291907951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, feel free to chuckle < 1291907954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can't be blocked, either < 1291907962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So are you drunk from the vanilla essence, yet? < 1291907964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do /know/ what kill -9 does...) < 1291907972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you suure :P < 1291907978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Random data with redundancy from escapes" -- can anyone rewrite this in a better way? < 1291907988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to suggest that the cat -v adds redundancy and thus compressibility into the data < 1291907992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it depends on platform < 1291907992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the M-s and the like < 1291907995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm far from certain what it does on Windows < 1291908138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone? :p < 1291908215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291908236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry, I was trying to remember what M-s did in Emacs < 1291908240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might even have to C-h c to find out < 1291908251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a prefix, it seems < 1291908255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-h c M-s prompts "M-s-" < 1291908404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-s o runs "occur", and "M-s h r/u" does highlight/unhighlight a regexp. < 1291908429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is irritating. < 1291908444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that the only way to stay sane in a bootloader is to use the BIOS in unreal mode. < 1291908450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is ... ugh. < 1291908482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh dear < 1291908500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the exercise after the kernel keylogger, the students have to write a bootloader in asm, I think < 1291908530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have high hopes < 1291908560 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't get mauled. I got Cooled. And I got some kind of award. And I thought e2 was supposed to hate noobs. < 1291908572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Maybe it's been overrun by the facebookers. < 1291908601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seriously; talking to floppy disks and hard disks without the BIOS are both Pretty Damn Painful, especially if you would rather not have to make a multiple-stage bootloader and thus have to cram everything into 512 bytes. The BIOS lets you read from floppies and HDs easily, but only so much at a time. You can't really load the kernel in real mode, because you probably want to load it into the higher half of RAM (at least you will later on < 1291908601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1291908601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :). But you can't call the BIOS in protected mode. So you have to go into unreal mode. What's more, the BIOS can't write to high memory even if you're in unreal mode, so you have to load stuff into a scratch space, and then copy it into high memory. < 1291908609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Total. And utter. Cluster. Fuck. < 1291908628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quintopia decided he wanted to try being stupid, so he's written an everything2 node arguing that facebook doesn't damage relations < 1291908629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what /is/ unreal mode? I'm only aware of three x86 modes < 1291908650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unreal mode is real mode, except with a full flat 32-bit address space < 1291908658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In x86 computing, unreal mode, also big real mode, huge real mode, or flat real mode, is a variant of real mode (PE=0), in which one or more data segment registers have been loaded with 32-bit addresses and limits." < 1291908673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did I mention that getting into unreal mode involves going into protected mode, and then doing crazy things to *undo* protection? < 1291908674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it's like oldfashioned huge pointers over a wider address space < 1291908682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it deliberate? or a bug? < 1291908684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[To enable unreal mode without using any undocumented features of the CPU, the program has to enter protected mode, locate a flat descriptor in the GDT or LDT or create such, load some of the data segment registers with the respective protected mode "selector", then switch back to real mode. When jumping back to real mode, the processor will continue using the cached descriptors as established in protected mode, thus allowing access to 4 GB of " < 1291908685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extended" memory from inside real mode.]] < 1291908686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: deliberate < 1291908710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I lied slightly; you don't *have* to go into unreal mode to load a kernel into high memory < 1291908718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could, of course, handle segment arithmetic yourself... < 1291908719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is that how XMS is implemented? or is "extended" used for a different purpose there? < 1291908726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming your kernel is bigger than one segment) < 1291908731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, segment arithmetic is easy < 1291908731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Some" DOS extenders, apaprently < 1291908735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*apparently < 1291908749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each segment starts 16 bytes from the one before < 1291908755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as they're 64K long, they overlap < 1291908758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... it < 1291908782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: segment arithmetic isn't easy if you have to cram loading a kernel with BIOS calls, copying memory around, printing diagnostics to the screen, enabling the A20 line, going into protected mode, and jumping to the kernel in 510 bytes < 1291908785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with x86 asm < 1291908813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why 510 bytes? < 1291908826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because that's how big a boot sector is < 1291908839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the last two bytes have to be 0x55, 0xAA < 1291908842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making up one sector < 1291908842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't bootloaders just have a bootloaderloader in the boot sector? < 1291908852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and I recognise 55 AA by heart < 1291908855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no. well, yes: multi-stage loaders. they're bloated. < 1291908863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting stuff into 512 bytes isn't actually hard < 1291908874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the "this is deliberate and totally not a mistake" code for pretty much every hardware-based accidental-corruption check in existence < 1291908875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you still feel a pang of irritation every time you realise you have to do something more < 1291908882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1291908929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some /really/ secure checks require you to write a specific sequence of bytes on specific processor cycles to specific memory-mapped registers, to make absolutely sure it'll only happen during normal operation, but even then they normally have 55 AA in there somewhere) < 1291908978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the long, safe way of checking whether the A20 line is on involves comparing the 0x55, 0xAA signature with the value one megabyte higher; even then, if they're equal, you have to be paranoid and change one of them, and check the other < 1291909002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're really crazy, you even flush the cache in-between writing and reading (but only the 386 is affected by this, it seems, and it has no cache-flushing instruction) < 1291909029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what were you testing your OS with? qemu-system-x86_64 is pretty slow, although i guess it probably doesn't matter < 1291909062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason 55 AA is chosen, btw, is that it can't be sent unchanged through any plausible combination of shorted and broken wires unless they're arranged in a really weird order < 1291909076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1291909090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's alternate wires, then the opposite set of alternate wires < 1291909100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: behold the fun of boot sectors: < 1291909102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[A device is "bootable" if it carries a boot sector with the byte sequence 0x55, 0xAA in bytes 511 and 512 respectively. When the BIOS finds such a boot sector, it is loaded into memory at a specific location; this is usually 0x0000:0x7c00 (segment 0, address 0x7c00). However, some BIOS' load to 0x7c0:0x0000 (segment 0x07c0, offset 0), which resolves to the same physical address, but can be surprising. < 1291909102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the wrong CS:IP pair is assumed, absolute near jumps will not work properly, and any code like mov ax,cs; mov ds,ax will result in unexpected variable locations. A good practice is to enforce CS:IP at the very start of your boot sector.]] < 1291909122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, I've never actually heard of anyone being bitten by assuming it's 0:0x7c00, but you never know...) < 1291909183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing this course, they'll only care if it works on the computers they have there < 1291909213 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291909214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, absolute near is a weird combination of addressing modes to use in a 510-byte sector < 1291909230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that you can go (signed 8-bit integer) with relative near, and it's shorter < 1291909240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you use an absolute jump to jump to the kernel < 1291909250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's more the "mov ax, cs; mov ds, ax" thing breaking, I think < 1291909300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: presumably you'd set CS first < 1291909309 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291909314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, for some reason DOS seems to require bootable disks to start with a jump to the next location < 1291909316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, no, because CS is initialised by the BIOS < 1291909330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, it's likely a different CS for the bootloader and kernel < 1291909337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd set it to a different value to be able to jump to the kernel < 1291909342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...those were two separate things < 1291909344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: well, you use an absolute jump to jump to the kernel < 1291909345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-------------- < 1291909347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and it's more the "mov ax, cs; mov ds, ax" thing breaking, I think < 1291909357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but after you set CS explicitly, absolute jumps work fine < 1291909382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, either you're not understanding me or I'm really not understanding you, so let's just change the subject :P < 1291909384 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-41-103.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291909413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291909504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you know the difference betwen near, far, and huge, incidentally? < 1291909521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: vaguely; no idea what the last is < 1291909544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a DOS (well, any real-mode x86 platform) C compiler difference < 1291909561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far pointers will just assume they don't overflow from one segment to another, so you can only point to 64K of data at a time < 1291909590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge pointers will add extra checks for segment overflow and adjust accordingly < 1291909617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so although far and huge are both 32-bit, huge are more expensive < 1291909628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although, huge pointers could be merely 24-bit and work just as well; people just don't like such non-round number of bits) < 1291909633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, just as well from an information-carrying perspective, they'd be less efficient without the padding byte) < 1291909745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1291909910 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-244.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291910119 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291910154 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291910183 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1291910692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291911349 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291911401 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1291911478 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291911502 0 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291911522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1291911524 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1291911958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish hell < 1291911959 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell < 1291911974 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish The engines can't take it, captain! < 1291911975 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zee ingeenes cun't teke-a it, cepteeen! Bork Bork Bork! < 1291911999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you are now whatever Scotty was on the Enterprise, on the ROU. < 1291912011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shall say the above phrase whenever possible. < 1291913033 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291913420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, this is irritating < 1291913962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, is ROU finished? < 1291913969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also I doubt I will be that < 1291913971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, nowhere near. < 1291914000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm building a reinforced bridge right now, although I just need to remove the scaffolding now. < 1291914007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh and server side inventory will probably be implemented soon it seems. That means the end of throwing away tools and picking them up < 1291914019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only hope he adds kits < 1291914020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes his fist/ < 1291914039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also I suspect that means protocol changes, which means hmod won't work for a few days < 1291914064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr. < 1291914115 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291914167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so any changes on ROU since yesterday? < 1291914180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added bridge. < 1291914264 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291914277 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1291914336 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291914587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AL = number of sectors to read (must be nonzero) < 1291914587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CH = low eight bits of cylinder number < 1291914587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CL = sector number 1-63 (bits 0-5) < 1291914587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high two bits of cylinder (bits 6-7, hard disk only) < 1291914587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DH = head number < 1291914588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DL = drive number (bit 7 set for hard disk) < 1291914590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ES:BX -> data buffer < 1291914592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what we call "a bad API". < 1291914647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Random+data < 1291914814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, Brain Raiter competes on anagolf! < 1291914816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?123/breadbox_1180162215&out < 1291914830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's another person going by breadbox who does crazy-small ELF files < 1291915308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, there? < 1291915558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that list of register uses. Is it for some BIOS call or? < 1291915572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes; reading sectors from floppy-or-hard-disk. < 1291915589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a pity they didn't invent LBA back then < 1291915605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The issue being that the drive interface was totally shoehorned onto the floppy interface, making it a bitch to support loading from both, thus defeating the point of unifying the calls :P < 1291915642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Amusingly: ". < 1291915643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In order for BIOS to overcome this limit and successfully work with large hard drives, a CHS translation scheme had to be implemented in BIOS disk I/O routines which would convert between 24-bit CHS used by INT 13H and 28-bit CHS numbering used by ATA." < 1291915645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't see why you couldn't just use sector from start of disk < 1291915649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's getting translated to LBA anyway. < 1291915650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and length in sectors < 1291915659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and data buffer of course < 1291915661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and drive number < 1291915665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, because the BIOS call doesn't work like that? < 1291915674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, badly designed :P < 1291915695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also 28 bits is not LBA < 1291915701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc LBA is 48 bits or such < 1291915707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. < 1291915717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDE standard included 22-bit LBA as an option, which was further extended to 28-bit with the release of ATA-1 (1994) and to 48-bit with the release of ATA-6 (2003). Most hard drives released after 1996 implement Logical block addressing. < 1291915727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah yes a 48 bit one exist < 1291915732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 28-bit. < 1291915740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably modern BIOSes handle the 48-bit one? < 1291915744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm staring at the vx6 boot sector source (partly in C, heh) and it seems to use IO ports to actually talk to some disk controller -- dunno whether floppy or HD or both -- so I'm going to see if I can find any information on that. < 1291915754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think you can address anything that high with that BIOS call. < 1291915764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, vx6? < 1291915773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott doesn't preoccupy himself with "modern" concerns. < 1291915778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *xv6. < 1291915786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so we would run into issues with putting boot partition at the end of a modern 1 TB disk? < 1291915803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A Sixth Edition Unix-alike written in C for x86, developed 2006 by Russ Cox et al., for MIT's OS course. < 1291915809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Replacing /actual/ Sixth Edition Unix.) < 1291915813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which was chosen in 2002.) < 1291915824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Blame Lions for his commentary, I guess.) < 1291915829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, unix. As in the original unix? < 1291915836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, as in eunuchs. < 1291915838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(original: not a fork or such) < 1291915841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1291915847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bell Labs Research Unix. < 1291915867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It is a common pedagogical OS because of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions%27_Commentary_on_UNIX_6th_Edition,_with_Source_Code. < 1291915870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1291915895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just looking at xv6 because it's a very small boot sector that does most of what I want and it's really short, so I can use it for pointers to useful material :P < 1291915912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but hm why doesn't it use the bios? < 1291915926 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1291915932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I'll bring out my mind reader device and get back to you. < 1291916599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well maybe there was some docs? < 1291916611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do they need a reason not to use the BIOS? < 1291916632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for floppy I suppose it is portable, but what about harddrive controllers? < 1291916657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, considering the huge number of drivers that the linux kernel has for different ATA controllers < 1291916905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : waitdisk(); < 1291916906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : outb(0x1F2, 1); // count = 1 < 1291916906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : outb(0x1F3, offset); < 1291916906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : outb(0x1F4, offset >> 8); < 1291916906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : outb(0x1F5, offset >> 16); < 1291916906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : outb(0x1F6, (offset >> 24) | 0xE0); < 1291916908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : outb(0x1F7, 0x20); // cmd 0x20 - read sectors < 1291916911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't look particularly unportable to me :P < 1291916914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like IDE. < 1291916920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And IDE is really simple and universal. < 1291917368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm just looking at xv6 because it's a very small boot sector that does most of what I want and it's really short, so I can use it for pointers to useful material :P <-- might not work that well if they point to a different segment... < 1291917436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That was a joke, yes? < 1291917443 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointers, harr harr < 1291917444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually expecting Vorpal to say that seriously, so ... < 1291917454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, not with the segment thing, just "EH???") < 1291917465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why do you have to ask? I'm not Vorpal < 1291917473 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291917492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: talking to vorpal is Vorpal-whoosh-paranoia-inducing < 1291917505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apologise, it was a rather bad pun < 1291917507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, < 1291917508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> In my view, this (common) view makes nomic an uninteresting game of < 1291917508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pedantic, and unrealistic legalese-wrangling. I personally find scams < 1291917508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> super-boring, and would much prefer it if Agora was a game of politics < 1291917508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rather than legislation. But politics requires a grounding in some other < 1291917508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> activity. < 1291917511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Michael Norrish < 1291917527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah at that pun < 1291917528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in reply to the "getting a loophole through is the fundamental gameplay of a Nomic" sentiment) < 1291917531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I replied to that, quoting it at me isn't going to be massively useful unless you have further comments < 1291917537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, you did? < 1291917538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you did. < 1291917543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise :) < 1291917546 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1291917548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, not hah, it was a terrible pun < 1291917552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ais523 admits that < 1291917561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I disagree though < 1291917574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you're wron < 1291917575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1291917591 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291917597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've replied too, and it seems like I basically agree with you except I addressed a different part of his point < 1291917604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is there any absolute truth when it comes to what is a good pun? Or any absolute truth at all < 1291917618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, some relay involved is being slow < 1291917618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1291917633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I only posted it a few minutes ago. < 1291917646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how can you know. Maybe thinking such an absolute truth exists is not absolute either < 1291917650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1291917654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads one of Norrish's papers < 1291917656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Expressions in the programming language C have such an < 1291917656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under-specified semantics that one might expect them to be non-deter- < 1291917656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ministic. However, with the help of a mechanised formalisation, we have < 1291917656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shown that the semantics’ additional constraints actually result in a large < 1291917656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class of C expressions having only one possible behaviour.]] < 1291917668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it was objectively unfunny and everyone who disagrees is both a Nazi, a hamster, wrong, bad, and evil < 1291917680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" However, our Cholera formalisation [6,7] is a completely formal se- < 1291917680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mantics for the bulk of the C language. It is formulated in a structural < 1291917680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operational style (see, for example, [2]) and is embedded in the HOL the- < 1291917680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orem prover [1]." < 1291917682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catchy name! < 1291917712 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The bulk of" < 1291917713 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291917723 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm betting that means it lacks casts and unions :P < 1291917731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it's funny the first time, it's just that that particular pun is coming up far too often < 1291917739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mn200/PhD/cholera-model.dvi < 1291917742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(doesn't open in my evince...) < 1291917749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mn200/PhD/esop1999.pdf the one i'm reading < 1291917752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, evince can normally do dvi just fine < 1291917757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291917772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I keep forgetting we have basically identical computers < 1291917786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just... doesn't seem right, given our differing tastes in hardware < 1291917791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how is our hardware relevant here? or do you mean software, too? :) < 1291917812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I don't actually have many programs installed here at all, over the base Debian install < 1291917818 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps that's because it's 217 pages :P < 1291917822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: our software isn't as similar as our hardware < 1291917832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is, it isn't relevant but I was reminded of it < 1291917839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs, xchat, minecraft, ghextris, ex falso appear to be all the gui apps i've installed < 1291917845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more command-line stuff, obviously < 1291917857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I actually had no idea this model was in any way related to yours when I bought it < 1291917880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: admittedly, there was not much choice (all the others were big, bulky, heavy machines with low battery life and terrible keyboards) < 1291917884 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dvips handled it :P < 1291917892 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291917900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and also super-super-crappy 3-penny netbooks < 1291917916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: * Omissions: The model doesn't do goto statements, switch statements or floating point values. < 1291917916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Basic flaws: The model assumes that every integral value has a unique representation in terms of bytes. This is not true, though it is often true of C implementations. < 1291917926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather do without union than switch and goto :P < 1291917928 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1291917939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: because it was objectively unfunny and everyone who disagrees is both a Nazi, a hamster, wrong, bad, and evil <-- Godwin! < 1291917947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you just say that because you're a hamster < 1291917948 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually I'd say switch and goto are more reasonable to elide ... < 1291917958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Hamwin's law! < 1291917973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I use switch and goto constantly, unions very rarely :P < 1291917979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you seen https://staff.aist.go.jp/y.oiwa/FailSafeC/index-en.html, btw? < 1291917996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh minecraft.net is down it seems < 1291918002 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, there's no reason to get rid of unions if you're leaving in arbitrary pointer casts, so if they removed unions they'd probably be removing arbitrary pointer casts too. < 1291918028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: True dat. < 1291918042 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've heard of Fail-Safe C, haven't really looked into it. < 1291918059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, http://wiki.osdev.org/IDE looks much more complex than the xv6 code. < 1291918079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what < 1291918093 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking what the fuck < 1291918112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what. < 1291918112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getaddrinfo(whois.crsnic.net): Name or service not known < 1291918118 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, .net is down for me < 1291918125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ripe.net = DNS error too < 1291918128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as an example < 1291918131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft.net works for me :P < 1291918134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, .com and such works fine < 1291918144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because networks are evil and corporations are awesome, duh < 1291918161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and .se is up and .uk is down. Yes the pattern fits < 1291918173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS.c:14:42: error: asm/page.h: No such file or directory < 1291918174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1291918193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid xfreeeightysurcks :P < 1291918197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, care to give me result of: host minecraft.net < 1291918210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: minecraft.net mail is handled by 10 mx.hover.com.cust.hostedemail.com. < 1291918217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, any other line? < 1291918221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also some line about "minecraft.net has address 194.28.157.42" but who knows what that's about! < 1291918226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1291918230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks anyway < 1291918261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go, in /etc/hosts < 1291918350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you like hides and bacon < 1291918354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because uh < 1291918356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those trees < 1291918360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :produce large amounts of it regularly < 1291918380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what < 1291918382 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1291918385 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need some of them < 1291918387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how can tree produce it? < 1291918395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fire. < 1291918401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah well, no thanks < 1291918408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They burn constantly now :P < 1291918425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you didn't clean up after yourself? < 1291918481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You would prefer a bare forest? < 1291918488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no lava any more, just trees that burn. < 1291918497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite pretty actually. < 1291918537 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if california becomes littered with bacon every few years < 1291918569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg: error processing linux-headers-2.6.32-5-686_2.6.32-28_i386.deb (--install): < 1291918569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : package architecture (i386) does not match system (amd64) < 1291918571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would like a beautiful natural forest yes < 1291918573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're headers, you dumb-fuck package manager. < 1291918595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they probably only include the ones for this arch < 1291918604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the i386 ones :P < 1291918607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On purpose. < 1291918611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like include/asm/386 or such < 1291918615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm cross-compiling. < 1291918620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's asm/page.h I want. < 1291918629 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well then I think you are doing it down < 1291918631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong* < 1291918637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf at that typo < 1291918692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, Debian literally has no cross-compiler support. < 1291918868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a verb for "to make transparent"? < 1291919013 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transparify :P < 1291919019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clarify? < 1291919097 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opacify? < 1291919123 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uncolor < 1291919134 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or uncolour) < 1291919156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: colour != transparency < 1291919161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not an opacifist. < 1291919193 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but everything that is not transparent has a color, and hence, to uncolo[u]r would be to make transparent < 1291919195 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deopacify :P < 1291919295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll port http://www.colorforth.com/ide.html to asm. :p < 1291919337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transpee. "I totally transpeed that texture." < 1291919397 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this conversation is becoming quite cisparent < 1291919415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:07:29 "You have some money. < 1291919415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:07:30 [I'm korean so they will be won]" --http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?kM4_ what is this i don't even < 1291919426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.osdever.net/tutorials/view/lba-hdd-access-via-pio So this is what xv6 uses. < 1291919429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case this is confusing you, won is the south korean currency unit < 1291919435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: orite < 1291919440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the rest of the thing makes no sense though still :P < 1291919457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1291919493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It seems to me that LBA28 can address the first 128 gigabytes of any disk. < 1291919498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Bochs doesn't do LBA48. < 1291919528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All ATA drives should support this way of addressing, the problem with LBA28 Addressing is that it only allows access 128GB to be accessed, so if the disk is bigger than 128GB, it should support the LBA48 Feature Set." < 1291919545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to use LBA28 for now :P < 1291919584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIO seems to be a DMA predecessor. < 1291919585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also north korean actually, but i somehow doubt that was meant :D) < 1291919610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the context of doing that in a boot loader, I wonder whether that sort of thing will let you USB-flash-boot, though; do they actually do IDE-controller-hardware-emulation, or just "make the BIOS disk routines be able to read the boot media"? I'd guess the latter. < 1291919627 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIO is older, but pretty much completely unrelated to DMA < 1291919631 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different ways of sending data < 1291919648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: same goal, though < 1291919660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I imagine they'll do PIO. Prolly. < 1291919684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SO with imake howwww do you make it not build a component exactly. < 1291919702 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: As soon as X11R7 came out, I put imake entirely out of my mind :P < 1291919720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I DON'T WAAANT TO BUILD XFTTTTT < 1291919726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1291919727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xaw < 1291919727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toooooo bad. < 1291919731 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toooooo bad. < 1291919731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait xft too :D < 1291919736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xftlex.l: In function ‘XftConfigLexDone’: < 1291919736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xftlex.l:274: error: ‘XftConfig_current_buffer’ undeclared (first use in this function) < 1291919736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xftlex.l:274: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once < 1291919736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xftlex.l:274: error: for each function it appears in.) < 1291920051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: At this point, I'm considering just writing my own tiny X that runs on a framebuffer device :P < 1291920061 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do it. < 1291920064 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DOIT < 1291920085 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Make sure to just make it xlib compatible, and not actually be client-server. < 1291920101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why? Are domain sockets so big? :P < 1291920104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Why the enthusiasm :P < 1291920117 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you are doing it and not him < 1291920119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (I was going to write my own miniature Xlib too.) < 1291920130 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because people are so bitchy about X11 being a "network" protocol :P < 1291920146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BUT THEN WHAT OF ALL THE TWO PEOPLE WHO USE XCB < 1291920159 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it sounds better than all of your messing about with XFree < 1291920186 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: implement it halfway so that they thing it works and then it blows up and eats everything < 1291920189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you just want me to stop whining :D < 1291920192 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*think < 1291920196 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes :P < 1291920719 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So I compiled bash for JSMIPS. < 1291920724 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was like "YESSSS IT WORKS" < 1291920746 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Problem: bash is 10x as big as Heirloom sh :P < 1291920751 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1.5MB vs 150K) < 1291920774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try pdksh. < 1291920781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or http://www.wormhole.hu/~ice/ksh/. < 1291920783 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ksh sucks arse. < 1291920795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OpenBSD ksh doesn't. < 1291920801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just like bash, except not bloated and smaller :P < 1291920809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P < 1291920809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a very-extended fork of pdksh.) < 1291920833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.wormhole.hu/~ice/ksh/'s Makefiles are BSD makefiles IIRC, so have fun :P < 1291920841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc you can install pmake.) < 1291920870 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cross-compiling to a terrifying amalgam of SysV and GNU using a GNU toolchain with pmake sounds like a blast. < 1291920882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It probably won't be that hard :P < 1291920889 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, probably not *shrugs* :P < 1291920890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, does the AND instruction do an implicit TEST? < 1291920904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do I have to "test bl, bl" after ANDing it? < 1291920911 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like TEST does an implicit AND :P < 1291920944 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure AND also updates the flags < 1291920990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does, yes. < 1291921017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the things that actually involve the ALUish bits do; the memory-moves just don't. < 1291921077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, test indeed does an implicit and. < 1291921080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"test bl, 0x08" then :P < 1291921084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm silley. < 1291921104 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test is an and that doesn't save the result, just as cmp is a subtraction that doesn't save the result < 1291921159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there's the "oh, that's a bit strange" things, like inc/dec not updating carry flag (possibly because you can tell carry from the zero flag). < 1291921198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I allowed to hate Notch? < 1291921251 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291921297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, instead of "test ebx, 0x40000000; jz bleh" or something, you can consider "bt ecx, 30; jnc bleh"; that's only an 8-bit immediate constant. (For testing a bit in bl the test is probably more sensible.) < 1291921317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do you have a plausible reason to? < 1291921342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that with each update the server gets more restrictive. < 1291921353 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no way of reverting i. < 1291921355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1291921369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What happened now? < 1291921392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first step will be to commit everything to our brand new version control system (git)" I am 99% certain that this means he did not use a VCS before. At all. < 1291921397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps he used TortoiseSVN! < 1291921411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah, but that's just done to make sure you play it right(tm). < 1291921582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something is wrong! How do I know this? Because I'm reading the sector to the screen so it's obvious when it worked. < 1291921609 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG, there's a bug in elliott's code! < 1291921612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, that's what I hate. < 1291921635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i know right i'm such an asm expert < 1291921637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could i get it wrong < 1291921639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that he can't see that people like having lightly-restricted sandboxes. < 1291921659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or lightly-garnished sandwiches. < 1291921774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 needs an instruction, like, "blink the screen for two seconds" so I can see where my program borks. < 1291921922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're running it under an emulator, can't it catch an "int 3" or something for you? < 1291922005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(INT 3 is a special one-byte opcode that will raise the #BP breakpoint exception, used by debuggers.) < 1291922071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" magic_break: enabled=1 < 1291922072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This enables the "magic breakpoint" feature when using the debugger. The useless cpu instruction XCHG BX, BX causes Bochs to enter the debugger mode. This might be useful for software development." < 1291922076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got that thing, at least. < 1291922079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it's bochs.) < 1291922321 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181142190.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1291922387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switching the bochses < 1291922562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Linux has a lot of drivers for the DMA support of various ATA controllers. < 1291922579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you don't care about DMA, then ATA has a very, very simple interface. < 1291922587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And portable. < 1291922630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also an expansion on the ISA bus. < 1291922648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to care about Lazy K again. < 1291922671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hey, you're an opinionated fellow. What's your opinion on the whole Wikileaks messs? < 1291922673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mess < 1291922691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think it a damned shame how the US has reacted to the mess. < 1291922715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the whole "KILL ASSANGE" thing? < 1291922715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ASSASSINATE HIM!" < 1291922718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1291922738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's retarded and acts under the bizarre premise that US law applies outside of the US. < 1291922755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Australian in Sweden? Sorry guys, the US has no jurisdiction whatsoever. < 1291922757 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it demonstrates admirably just how poorly governments have adapted to the internet. < 1291922764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dodm? < 1291922772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it does. < 1291922777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doom! < 1291922780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's take out this guy; his face is everywhere so he MUST run the whole thing!" < 1291922806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the contents of Wikileaks' insurance file. < 1291922818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention that their reaction is that of tyrants. < 1291922822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, literally, Julian Assange's house insurance details. < 1291922827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uå < 1291922828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just wanted a bunch of backups in case his computer got lost or stolen. < 1291922830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up* < 1291922833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My logic is infallible. < 1291922834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Full set of everything Assange has that can be leaked. < 1291922835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD. < 1291922835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you get the bit about glass btw? < 1291922849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(source, Julian Assange in an interview I don't have a link to ATM) < 1291922850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's rather larger than house insurance details, though. < 1291922887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the leaks themselves show many worrisome acts by the US. < 1291922907 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like combing through Canadian television for anti-US sentiments? < 1291922921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or asking diplomats to engage in espionage. < 1291922925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It has a bunch of copies of them, in case any sectors go bad. < 1291922930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of it, < 1291923100 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, anyone interested in the contents of io.scm? < 1291923131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My monady IO thing.) < 1291923149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and senators are now wanting an ex post facto law to stop Julian Assange. < 1291923165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only do you lack jurisdiction, YOU CAN'T FUCKING DO EX POST FACTO LAWS. < 1291923186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of the most explicit limits on government power! < 1291923249 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, you just have to pass some law to allow ex post facto laws < 1291923274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in the UK, apparently. < 1291923315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: US Constitution disallows ex post facto laws. < 1291923327 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patchable :P < 1291923346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not with our current Congressional setup. < 1291923353 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: True :P < 1291923360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It takes one Senator to halt Congress. < 1291923423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when do Wikileaks go for the nuclear option? < 1291923452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If Julian Assange is stopped, all the shit flies. < 1291923461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stopped"? < 1291923466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "jailed"? < 1291923494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sentenced, killed, etc. < 1291923511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure it's a deadman switch setup. < 1291923531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I a Bad Person for wanting that to happen? < 1291923568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what have they got that they haven't leaked (and why)? < 1291923598 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've saved it so they can leak it later, obviously < 1291923634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they dumped it all at once, then it would probably take forever for the media to find things worth reporting on, and the government could actually react to the leak. < 1291923635 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it comes down to "is this worse for them to have leaked than it is good for us to leak?" < 1291923662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, the media gets to report on things right when they're leaked, and the government *cannot react at all*. < 1291923752 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-87.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1291923771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, keeping it ambiguous keeps government officials too afraid to just, say, send in the Marines, assassinate him, and deal with the fallout later. < 1291923837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps they have some things earmarked? < 1291923944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also find the smear campaign going on completely ridiculous. < 1291923959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Not to mention the whole idea of a "surprise sex" law. < 1291924094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, how can I check if my ISP (who I have established to be unethical bastards) are rate-limiting torrents? < 1291924107 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if (comcast) { true } else { false } < 1291924123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291924158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to believe that all other ISPs are too principled to do so. < 1291924165 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's in it for them? < 1291924178 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laziness. < 1291924185 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Douchebaggery takes effort. < 1291924344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... how do Comcast manage it? < 1291924469 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm told that they spoof some built-in rate control message in BitTorrent. You can work around it by forcing your client to only send/accept encrypted messages. < 1291924604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't reach half of the DNS on internet. Gah < 1291924657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Actually, they spoof a TCP reset. < 1291924682 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh really? I thought it was smarter than that, but I just have second-hand info. < 1291924682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, they *used to*. < 1291924690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FCC ordered them to stop./ < 1291924696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I only "used to" use Comcast too :P < 1291924727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Did they force them to stop because they decided that doing it was illegal, or because Comcast was lying about it? < 1291924752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exceptionally illegal. < 1291924789 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it be illegal to send packets to your customers? if you pay for internet-with-RST-packets then that's what you get! :) < 1291924838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only tampering with the Internet were like tampering with the mail. < 1291924911 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fun for the whole family? < 1291925021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Gregor: any if you can give me some ips to alternative dns servers? I don't know what good ones exist these days < 1291925028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven't had dns issues like these for ages) < 1291925049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 8.8.8.8 < 1291925054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291925059 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 if you're happy to hand all your data to The Google. < 1291925062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if you're like me, 127.0.0.1 < 1291925065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which law does it break? < 1291925074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FCC regulations. < 1291925107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, if it is enough to be able to resolve the ip of the distro mirror to download a local recursive dns server: then yes for a while < 1291925130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I'm utterly unable to reach anything not cached by my router atm < 1291925157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Or, if you're like me, 127.0.0.1 <-- isn't that rather unlikely to solve his fundamental problem? :D < 1291925180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Does if he has a DNS server on localhost, like me. < 1291925181 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, does dnsmasq do recursive resolver? < 1291925191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not want to install bind really < 1291925198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1291925207 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you have some qualm with giving your data to The Google? The Google is everything. All that once was and all that will be. The Google controls time and space, love and death! The Google can see into your mind! The Google can SEE INTO YOUR SOUL! ALL GLORY AND LOVE TO THE GOOGLE < 1291925234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, for some reason that reminded me of time cube < 1291925240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think dnsmasq only does forwarding. < 1291925247 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It should have reminded you of Charlie the Unicorn :P < 1291925252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what is a good recursive one? < 1291925263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that preferably isn't bind < 1291925270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, never heard of that < 1291925275 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... D-8 < 1291925284 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, elliott: WEEP WITH ME < 1291925290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, which way is up in that smiley? < 1291925294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Weep. < 1291925302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unbound does recursive DNS. < 1291925313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if not bind, there was some small recursive-only thing too, but I've forgotten the name. < 1291925318 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you can't answer that question yourself, you have wildly insufficient experience with human faces :P < 1291925319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: unbound < 1291925328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, any good? < 1291925339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using it for nearly a year now. < 1291925345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it isn't in my distro repo I guess it means AUR or some manual work < 1291925346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: clearly you are wearing ray-bans and doing something contorted with your tongue < 1291925356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which distro? < 1291925361 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah AUR... < 1291925363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, arch < 1291925374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, because I want rolling release. And gentoo is not a good option < 1291925376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's djbdns' "dnscache", I don't have any first-hand experiences on that. < 1291925391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1291925418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I only used djbdns for authoritative < 1291925419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought ray-bans implied that shape but google images disagrees < 1291925436 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no friggin' clue what "ray-bans" is supposed to mean :P < 1291925438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just use bind, and sob. < 1291925447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nah, AUR has it < 1291925455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so should be done soon < 1291925470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's a trademark for sunglasses afaik < 1291925496 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sunglasses ... for cyclopses? < 1291925554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well apparently not, although i haven't found the name of what i was really thinking of yet < 1291925691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even those "uni-lens" sort of sunglasses have a bump where your nose goes, so D is a bad approximation for them too. (B I've seen for sunglass-eyes.) < 1291925779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, huh, it uses libtool yet the compiler command lines in make output are not massive < 1291925791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they fit on one line in my terminal < 1291925799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hm maybe visor is the word < 1291925821 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's a weird-lookin' visor, but I can see it :P < 1291925824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Visor.jpg looks similar < 1291925902 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ... is something I would usually call a facemask, unless it's worn in a way I can't fathom. < 1291925931 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wikipedia, I have no friggin' clue what a visor is 8-D < 1291925953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That linked one is a "sports visor" subclass object. < 1291926009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: er except the actual sports visor article says that's a cap and has nothing to do with glasses... < 1291926073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_eyeshade fits perfectly < 1291926126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Gregor is involved in accounting, auditing, fiscal management, economics, or budgeting. < 1291926168 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The city is populated by various anthropomorphized animals, with ducks, dogs, and pigs the most dominant ones." < 1291926200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sounds legit to me < 1291926305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, such a git indeed. < 1291926358 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Free yourself from the Wikipedia Clickit Game :P < 1291926360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The population is estimated 316 000." I'm disappointed no-one's [citation needed]'d that. < 1291926489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes green eyeshade -> Scrooge McDuck -> Duck universe < 1291926500 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The quality of Wikipedia pages has been brought into question, particularly in the amount of data it presents as needing citation [citation needed]." < 1291926532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that needs a {{by whom}} tag as well :D < 1291926545 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Touche sir! < 1291926593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm disappointed you apparently made that up < 1291926617 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I'm tired < 1291926635 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that almost never happens! < 1291926642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You would, what with being in one of those countries where Disney comics are actually popular. < 1291926652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they hardly even *exist* in the US, their country of origin) < 1291926688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i think norway may be the country where they are most popular < 1291926727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Popular in most of Europe. It's rare to find someone aware of their existence in the US. < 1291926784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By 2005 around one out of every four Norwegians read the Norwegian edition Donald Duck & Co. per week, translating to around 1.3 million regular readers. During the same year, every week 434,000 Swedes read Kalle Anka & Co. By 2005 in Finland the Donald Duck anthology Aku Ankka sold 270,000 copies per issue." I guess Norway does win, according to those perhaps not so reliable numbers. < 1291926804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was about to paste that :D < 1291926816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least our glorious country is the only one of which this tidbit of information is mentioned: "Finnish voters placing "protest votes" typically write "Donald Duck" as the candidate.[12]" < 1291926869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, ping! < 1291926877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say "comic" to the average American, they think of a small handful of superhero comics. < 1291926883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: on the other hand sweden had the distinction of Disney's Christmas special at one time being the most popular tv program < 1291926924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall a rumor that this fact made disney change a decision to cancel the program < 1291926942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(very vaguely) < 1291926978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention my pain in trying to find Sandman Vol. 4? < 1291926987 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to have been mysteriously discontinued. < 1291926989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An annual Christmas special in Norway, Denmark and Sweden is called "Donald Duck and His Friends Celebrate Christmas". Segments include Ferdinand, a short with Chip and Chet, a segment from Lady and the Tramp, a sneak preview of a coming Disney movie and concludes with Jiminy Cricket performing "When You Wish Upon A Star"." -- What discrimination: we do that too. < 1291927007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same contents and all. < 1291927011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i recall someone mentioning that about season of mists, was that it? < 1291927024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed. < 1291927042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need a copy of Sandman. < 1291927066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do I. < 1291927080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's strange, i recall it being a particularly pivotal part < 1291927093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Quite. < 1291927121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, perhaps it's sold out. < 1291927125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody annoying. < 1291927142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC I have a preorder which should arrive in... April. < 1291927158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just for sandman itself, but also for the spinoff lucifer series < 1291927226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shutupshutupshutup < 1291927233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also show this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Snowman -- thing every Christmas (well; 1983, 1989, then 1992 onwards each year); I think that's been copied from UK? < 1291927264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1291927467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M WALKING IN THE AIIIIIIIIIIR < 1291927485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, chip and _chet_? < 1291927519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, hmm. That's what it *says*. < 1291927542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's Tiku and Taku here in Finland; maye that was written with someone from another freaky-name-land too. < 1291927558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure it's chip and dale (note the pun) < 1291927585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that sounds rather more familiar too. < 1291927612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ""chip and chet" wikipedia" search seems to find just that one page and things quoting it. < 1291927727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has been "Chet" on the page for at least the whole year 2010. (Wikipedia needs a "bisect"-style thing, or a "when was this bit edited" tool.) < 1291927729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOESN'T THIS WORK. < 1291927857 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs more 🐮🔔 < 1291927859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY OLSNER WANNA WRITE MY CODE FOR ME < 1291927861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh olsner? eh? < 1291927872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 01F42E 01F514? < 1291927896 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES. < 1291927919 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Duck&diff=330059847&oldid=329462566 -- at least you now know which IP to blame. < 1291927947 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291927948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah i was doing a binary search < 1291927975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so it was chet from the start < 1291927979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was doing a "skip backwards one year at a time, then do a binary search" search. < 1291928031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i just did last 500 to start it < 1291928102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's a reliable way to make an x86 reboot in real mode? :p < 1291928105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in crash it. < 1291928166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the same port as the fast a20 gate thing, except poke a 1 to bit 0. < 1291928211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this for? < 1291928244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has edited < 1291928255 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oerjan has been edited < 1291928290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use the same port as the fast a20 gate thing, except poke a 1 to bit 0. < 1291928297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, apparently that doesn't crash everything. < 1291928301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just doesn't work on some things. < 1291928302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nice, dnssec works almost out of the box for unbound < 1291928349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what do you need a reboot for? < 1291928431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: To check that this bit of code is actually being got to. :p < 1291928439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int 3 does nothing to qemu. < 1291928540 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does it even call interrupt 3? < 1291928549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just nothing at all? < 1291928562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the short in question is "Pluto's Christmas Tree" on the Chip 'n' Dale page < 1291928563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have verified specifically that int 3 does nothing to qemu, so it does not help here. < 1291928578 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you set a breakpoint in qemu? < 1291928580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does noöne appreciate my Lazy K IO library... < 1291928590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU ALL < 1291928597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could try the triple-fault, but I'm not sure how to do that in real mode really simply. < 1291928607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu's monitor can set breakpoints, IIRC. < 1291928615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have never even seen your Lazy K IO library < 1291928627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, yay, you're interested! < 1291928659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can I jmp invalidly or something? < 1291928697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, the linux arch/x86/kernel/reboot.c reboots by executing the bytes 0xea, 0x00, 0x00, 0xff, 0xff /* ljmp $0xffff,$0x0000 */ < 1291928701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(After flipping to real mode.) < 1291928701 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you would have to set a break point. < 1291928729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Phantom_Hoover/io.scm < 1291928730 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something I have done when debugging a GameBoy program in VisualBoyAdvance, which has no breakpoints, is make an instruction that jumps to itself. < 1291928784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the lack of documentation! < 1291928797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly a "jmp far 0xffff:0" will invoke a reboot routine in the BIOS. < 1291928839 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, I can see it < 1291928850 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see lack of documentation. < 1291928869 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is complicated. Let's all use MIPS instead. < 1291928900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: No, MMIX! < 1291928911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's all use a non-imperative architecture! < 1291928927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of our only involved-assembly-programming courses ("introduction to computer hardware", a really basic-level common-to-all course) used MIPS (simulated, in SPIM) for the (trivial) programming exercises. < 1291928928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, reduciron! (sp?) < 1291928935 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e < 1291928939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I fixed the formatting for you. < 1291928942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: -eron. < 1291928949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1291928969 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No hardware implementation of MMIX exists. Although I would like to make one in some time < 1291928970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wrote "reduceitron" first and thought "uh no, that wasn't it" < 1291928979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "jmp far 0xffff:0" --> "mismatch in operand sizes" < 1291929009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. Add more f? < 1291929012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or fewer < 1291929019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wild guess) < 1291929028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not see how that would accomplish anything. < 1291929039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well it would change the (textual) operand size < 1291929059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just put in db 0xea, 0x00, 0x00, 0xff, 0xff then, I don't know what the proper syntax is. :p < 1291929081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it doesn't reboot. Not good. < 1291929085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Might I need interrupts enabled for that? < 1291929106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. You could try if it reboots if you put that in some place you're sure gets executed. < 1291929110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, you use intel I presume? So why are you using 0x? < 1291929118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...as opposed to? < 1291929121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't h the usual way < 1291929125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1291929125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with intel < 1291929131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only for interrupt numbers. < 1291929134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1291929136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i see an FPGA implementation at least... < 1291929149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/bead < 1291929153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS MUST BE MADE < 1291929154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dmk16/fpga_implementation_of_donald_knuths_mmix/ < 1291929171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well or maybe not the comment says something about it being abandoned < 1291929226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://qntm.org/bead < 1291929227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1291929228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes yes yes. < 1291929235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesyesyesyes. < 1291929263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, uh < 1291929266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The locals will be equal parts sophisticated, intelligent, cosmopolitan Scandinavians with Bluetooth headsets, gigabit fibre optic internet connections and superb health care, and insane hairy fur-trappers and fishermen one step removed from the Norse god Thor." < 1291929271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not good for Svalbard < 1291929294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it is a sitcom. < 1291929297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I mean. Svalbard is probably satellite internet only < 1291929303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humour > accuracy. < 1291929323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also uh. It is western Europe. So how eastern Europe makes no sense < 1291929341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eastern Europe starts east of Sweden definitely, and Svalbard is more like north of UK < 1291929362 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, if you can't realise the hilarity inherent in the concept, you suck. < 1291929369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well clearly they need the insane hairy fur-trappers to keep the polar bears at bay < 1291929372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Svalbard has a fibre-optic link. < 1291929379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the US, iirc. < 1291929384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh. That's impressive < 1291929387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terrible latency one presumes, though apparently the throughput is great. < 1291929408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, throughput ought to be great, not a lot of people share it < 1291929416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like. 1000 at most? < 1291929417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1291929422 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they exist FPGA with publicly available information to program it, without encryption? < 1291929423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9 source code is so beautiful. < 1291929425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though quite season-dependant iirc < 1291929434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sample? < 1291929444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Svalbard, were it not so cold, would be a paradise; you can emigrate there just by *wanting to*. < 1291929451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's actually a law. < 1291929459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall the exact statement. < 1291929459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1291929466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But basically anyone can go and live there, no questions asked. < 1291929472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fibre-optic!!! < 1291929478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: source is reddit :P < 1291929485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/ < 1291929509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh. if it wasn't so cold then probably it would be overcrowded and thus that law wouldn't exist (if it does, and wasn't misinterpreted) < 1291929528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IIRC it was part of some deal or something. < 1291929530 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like normal C code tto me. < 1291929530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget exactly :P < 1291929532 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1291929557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You haven't seen most C code, then. < 1291929568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, then we know where bin Ladin is hiding. No one asked him his name when he wanted to go there (no questions asked and so on) < 1291929569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1291929576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (It might help you understand the elegance and simplicity of the code vastly if you know C.) < 1291929585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sick of your country? Don't mind cold weather? The treaty of Spitzbergen allows citizens of 39 nations to migrate to Svalbard (a Norwegian island near the North pole) and become residents if they want to, no questions asked." < 1291929599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, any specific file that is a good example? < 1291929605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Svalbard#Spitsbergen_Treaty < 1291929621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Any file; pick one. The implementation will be more elegant than you expect unless you have very high expectations. < 1291929663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, not every single file. But most.) < 1291929720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, expectation: code for MMU handling will look like elegant haskell < 1291929726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, Sharp has a "RGB+Y" TV (adds a yellow-ish subpixel into a RGB screen); after those RGBE camera filters, I was a bit wondering when they'd do the same trick in display technology too. (Too bad all the video signals contain only RGB material, so it's a bit dubious if it's any use there.) < 1291929739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Prepare to be disappointed. < 1291929743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which part is the low level kernel? < 1291929747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, what subdir < 1291929749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sulu was in the adverts for those here. < 1291929753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: As a pretentious scientist. < 1291929761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think 9/, but I'm not sure. :p < 1291929770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot/ is also relevant-looking. < 1291929812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/9/pc/mmu.c < 1291929813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1291929816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not so elegant < 1291929829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's the x86 MMU, how could it possibly be. < 1291929832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : m->gdt[TSSSEG].d1 = (x&0xFF000000)|((x>>16)&0xFF)|SEGTSS|SEGPL(0)|SEGP; < 1291929844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well true < 1291929854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lets try memcpy < 1291929854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one point about svalbard btw, you need to have a job to go there, the usual norwegian welfare benefits don't apply there, not even to norwegian citizens iirc < 1291929857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest of the kernel is quite elegant beyond the low-level boot in my experience. < 1291929869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's an assembly version I think, not sure if there's a generic version. < 1291929871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lame :D < 1291929893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no generic code: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/libc/ ? < 1291929897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: port/ < 1291929901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Here's memccpy: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/libc/port/memccpy.c < 1291929904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how logical name < 1291929909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ccpy? < 1291929910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PORTable. < 1291929920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The extra c is I'm not sure what. < 1291929925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, and 9/pc vs. libc/386 < 1291929929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes perfectly logical < 1291929931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 386s are not PCs. < 1291929933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC = 386 + things. < 1291929938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc/386 isn't PC-specific, just 386-specific. < 1291929940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1291929944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, it is logical. < 1291929962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Also presumably one uses port/ when making a new PORT and you haven't yet written all the things; Plan 9 runs on more architectures than there are directories in libc/.) < 1291929967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/libc/port/memccpy.c <-- why c &= 0xFF; < 1291929982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1291929986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get just one byte < 1291930017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the thin box on this looks weird: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/libc/386/memcpy.s < 1291930023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like a poem or something < 1291930026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than a file < 1291930035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a CODE POEM. < 1291930045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is x86 asm < 1291930052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CODE POEM < 1291930065 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Maybe you should add a {{.file}} template to allow the formatted code to be downloaded. (Another way is changing the formatting to put a space before each line instead of
, that also allows it to be downloaded)
< 1291930076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way should do.
< 1291930110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, opinion on DNSSEC?
< 1291930118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no opinion.
< 1291930125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't think it is bloated?
< 1291930130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am confused.
< 1291930134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I'd rather fix the scheduling.
< 1291930138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by this behaviour
< 1291930148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/8c/cgen.c Entire 386 code generator for the Plan 9 compiler.
< 1291930160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I haven't even looked at it since it sounds incredibly boring.
< 1291930162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, long
< 1291930163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What scheduling?
< 1291930171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Long?
< 1291930174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd like to see gcc's.
< 1291930177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's probably 70 files.
< 1291930234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, consider the following scenario: you wan to print something, input, print something else, then print whatever was input.
< 1291930249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/vc/cgen.c The much shorter code generator for big-endian MIPS.
< 1291930249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... DNSSEC stands for "Domain Name System Security Extensions", hm SEC. I spot either a backronym or someone designing with the the acronym in mind
< 1291930260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy K's non-strict semantics cause the two constant outputs to be performed before the input.
< 1291930278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still the usual mess, typical of well written C code
< 1291930294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Code generation is a mess; there are nicer programs in the tree.
< 1291930298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nicer than gcc and llvm, I'll bet.
< 1291930298 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, then fix that problem.
< 1291930303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, C is ugly.
< 1291930312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not Plan 9 C.
< 1291930313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, there are better and worse C code examples
< 1291930319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, compared to haskell yes it is ugly
< 1291930323 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not if it is neatly printed using Enhanced CWEB.
< 1291930331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, aaaaargh
< 1291930335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not at what Plan 9 is doing.
< 1291930341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like sgeo and activeworlds
< 1291930359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then we are doing the wrong thing :P
< 1291930400 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But I still suggest you correct the page to allow downloading (there are two ways to do so), as well.
< 1291930474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page isn't broken.
< 1291930480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what page
< 1291931260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4255
< 1291931264 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks cool
< 1291931407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heh.
< 1291931430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, proposed though
< 1291931505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we can only be happy that the guys who invented stuff like DNSSEC haven't made DRM schemes. DNSSEC seems utterly competently made
< 1291931699 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-217-96.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291931759 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.220 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291932204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, ping.
< 1291932253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, problems?
< 1291932272 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, asking if he's come to a decision on MoveCraft.
< 1291932294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://interfacelab.com/objective-c-memory-management-for-lazy-people/ "whine whine i'm hardcore i don't need a gc"
< 1291932360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The metatree is now a meta4.
< 1291932370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait.
< 1291932371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still a meta3.
< 1291932384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, I never meta3 I didn't like.
< 1291932395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1291932400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much horizontal clearance does a tree need
< 1291932488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Are you coming back on today?
< 1291932690 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291932716 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pong.
< 1291932773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, have you come to a decision re MoveCraft?
< 1291932871 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, the classic hardcore nerd.
< 1291932876 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't looked at it yet, no.
< 1291932884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wut?
< 1291932886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1291932908 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a tree built out of metatrees?
< 1291932929 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, a tree built out of those^?
< 1291932939 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySmYyAqV8jM
< 1291932940 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this
< 1291932988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: do you play minecraft? i can only explain it if you do
< 1291933017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it's a tree planted on top of a tree. Ignore elliott.
< 1291933067 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metatree
< 1291933073 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a rad name
< 1291933078 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't suppose minecraft yet has enough vertical voxels to accomodate a tree built of trees built of trees built of trees
< 1291933092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it does nott.
< 1291933094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not
< 1291933132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38
< 1291933170 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might could manage 1 less meta there by digging down sufficiently far and limiting how many sub-trees each tree has suitably
< 1291933172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's harder than that
< 1291933176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291933177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do surgery after it grows
< 1291933189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I forget, what's the common way to get "jz" and friends all knowing after you do a mov?
< 1291933192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test foo, foo?
< 1291933207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the usual one.
< 1291933219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that work if foo is [di+N] for constant N? :P
< 1291933294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can have two mem arguments in test, but in that case the other operand of mov should've been a register you could test.
< 1291933437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: i don't suppose minecraft yet has enough vertical voxels to accomodate a tree built of trees built of trees built of trees <-- do you mean the height from top to bottom of map in blocks?
< 1291933438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constant actually :P
< 1291933442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could do test const, const.
< 1291933451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, wait.
< 1291933453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just precompute the result.
< 1291933459 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make lisp using redstone logic
< 1291933466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case you should do it compile-time, yes.
< 1291933476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, assemble-time.
< 1291933480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: I forget, what's the common way to get "jz" and friends all knowing after you do a mov? <-- somehow I read that as "jwz and [his] friends"
< 1291933482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1291933507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did spend a moment thinking "who's jz?" too.
< 1291933588 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1291933660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my system now does dnssec. Very nice
< 1291933672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to set flags based on what's at di+N, you could "cmp [di+N], 0"; I don't know offhand if there's a variant that doesn't involve a silly immediate value 0.
< 1291933702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if you assembler supports macros you could make one
< 1291933708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, that is cheating)
< 1291933739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but for a dword that's a four-byte immediate.
< 1291933794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why are you using asm if you care for efficiency.. Oh wait
< 1291933828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And in fact you'd need to indicate the size there since there's no register involved, and Intel syntax doesn't put in the suffixes.)
< 1291933862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how do you indicate the size with intel syntax?
< 1291933884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember
< 1291933889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmp dword [di+N], 0
< 1291933894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1291933928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how verbose
< 1291933935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1291933940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu
< 1291933949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it *is* shorter with gas :P
< 1291933950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think the suffixes take up more bytes on average.
< 1291933963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe
< 1291933963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1291934035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmpl $0, N(%di) there?
< 1291934048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew
< 1291934156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are on MC, but what are you doing
< 1291934165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seems quite sensible
< 1291934198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn;'6
< 1291934210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not do the same syntax discussion again.
< 1291934225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's
< 1291934232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to go grepping my examples with the phone, anyway.
< 1291934443 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291934511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1291934638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very down
< 1291934641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, what is going on?
< 1291934790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does anything have to be going on
< 1291934871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the maximum displacement?
< 1291934873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it signed 8 bit?
< 1291934990 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291934997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32, I think.
< 1291935003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what, +32? :)
< 1291935004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signed 32-bit, okay.
< 1291935015 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you doing?
< 1291935016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you stay within 8, the encoding is shorter.
< 1291935020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: hm?
< 1291935040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know how you tried to make the dna maze source unconventionally formatted to irritate people?
< 1291935042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Asleep now.)
< 1291935134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, see comment about authcraft in server chat
< 1291935582 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291935591 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.114.29.124 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291935596 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1291935618 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291935663 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :请点我到英吉利海峡
< 1291935667 0 :hkrliu!~hkrliu@121.61.150.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291935713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1291935978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho
< 1291936110 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he
< 1291936181 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291937070 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291937230 0 :hkrliu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1291937343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Unicorn-Castle-T-Shirt-Cotton-Sleeve/dp/B0037TPED4/ref=pd_sbs_a_2 // best comment ever: Here's the life-changing part: As soon as I started wearing it, people started believing I was gay. No more insisting on my part - the shirt says it all.
< 1291937521 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I'm gay, I should definitely get that shirt.
< 1291937648 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote another review: "Gay is the new black"
< 1291937698 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Customers Who Viewed This Item Also Viewed
< 1291937699 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mountain Three Wolf Moon Short Sleeve Tee by The Mountain
< 1291937708 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprising!
< 1291937771 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I get a Three Perry-the-Platypus Moon Short Sleeve Tee?
< 1291938052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291938152 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1291938168 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291938193 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1291938295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:     *  Receive 1 Ugly Christmas Sweater Fleece free when you purchase $100.00 or more of Qualifying Items offered by Bison Lake Trading Company. Enter code Q7WVSL9K at checkout. Here's how (restrictions apply)
< 1291938299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORST FLEECE EVER
< 1291938338 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is pretty ugly :P
< 1291938349 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, speaking of [SUPERLATIVE] [NOUN] EVER:
< 1291938357 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you are the BEST JAZZ MUSICIAN EVER
< 1291938364 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems unlikely :P
< 1291938407 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, you are a PRETTY GOOD JAZZ MUSICIAN?
< 1291938416 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am no kind of jazz musician ...
< 1291938432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think tswett means Gregor's friend who is indistinguishable from him.
< 1291938436 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods solemnly.
< 1291938439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is my compiler trying to compile NULL and why is it working.
< 1291938449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is it actually...
< 1291938451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're referring to Eric Allen, then he most assuredly is, y es.
< 1291938451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes
< 1291938467 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is NULL a programming language, a specific string, or... something else?
< 1291938638 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void*)0
< 1291938644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: NULL is NULL :P
< 1291938663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Actually it can be (T *)0 for any T, no?
< 1291938674 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a null pointer.
< 1291938679 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean to compile a pointer?
< 1291938699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: To feed the NULL pointer to my compilation procedure.
< 1291938699 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not sure
< 1291938708 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1291938710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it actually is, but...
< 1291938775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: In C and C++ programming, two null pointers are guaranteed to compare equal; ANSI C guarantees that any null pointer will be equal to 0 in a comparison with an integer type; furthermore the macro NULL is defined as a null pointer constant, that is value 0 (either as an integer type or converted to a pointer to void), so a null pointer will compare equal to NULL.
< 1291938786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So NULL can actually be #define NULL (char)0 :)
< 1291938835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1291938838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, perhaps my parser is broken.
< 1291938843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1291939020 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what compiler?
< 1291939179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: This one.