00:00:27 ((equal? (car e) 'lambda) 00:00:27 (lambda (args) 00:00:27 (evil 00:00:27 (car (cdr (cdr e))) ;; 00:00:27 (append (bind (car (cdr e)) args) env)))) 00:00:35 Hmm. 00:00:49 Pixley solves this problem by just Y-combinatoring, but, uh, ... 00:03:12 Nobody have any fantastically enlightening opinions to give? 00:03:47 evil?? 00:04:50 j-invariant: It's what I called eval to not step on the built-in R5RS procedure. 00:13:20 Great, it doesn't self-interpret... 00:13:29 Hello, HEATHENS 00:14:48 Gregor: YO. 00:14:50 Gregor: Fix my 'terp. 00:15:04 In fact, everyone fix my 'terp. 00:15:21 NOWAY BIACH 00:15:21 Gregor: If you don't want to do that, write a paper about this: http://syntensity.com/static/python.js 00:15:26 just have something that turns "lambda" into lambda and you're done 00:15:36 CPython compiled to LLVM compiled to JavaScript. 00:15:39 j-invariant: nope, it's a scope problem 00:15:48 j-invariant: basically "(define x y) ..." is the same as (let ((x y)) ...) 00:15:55 so obviously can't self-reference at all :-/ 00:15:58 scope is always difficult.. 00:16:03 I mean I'm just doing 00:16:07 (define mock 00:16:07 (lambda (f) 00:16:07 (f f))) 00:16:08 for now 00:16:11 and having everything be ugly 00:16:15 but i have a subtle bug now, in self-interpreting 00:16:18 which is just making me the sads. 00:18:13 specifically 00:18:15 cons: expects 2 arguments, given 1: (car #) 00:24:40 -!- RachelS has joined. 00:24:51 hi RachelS 00:25:14 hello Elliot 00:26:44 RachelS: this channel is about esoteric programming languages, btw 00:27:02 Ah yes I've visited your wiki 00:27:11 right, a lot of people come in here expecting other things :p 00:27:21 I had no expectations 00:31:23 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:31:50 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 00:33:10 -!- RachelS has left (?). 00:34:38 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 00:39:44 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 00:46:11 I hate re-writing :/ 00:51:02 ineiros_: hMod, it is the out. 00:52:35 -!- calamari_ has joined. 00:53:47 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Bye). 00:54:02 -!- calamari_ has changed nick to calamari. 01:35:48 elliott: I'm running out o fmotivation :( 01:38:36 j-invariant: but category theory! 01:38:41 I know 01:39:02 I'ull make a roadmap 02:10:14 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:20:16 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:24:07 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 02:27:07 does anyone else want to try the Pixley Challenge? :-P 02:27:42 -!- Sasha has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:28:07 -!- Sasha has joined. 02:32:41 what is it? 02:33:56 j-invariant: "Write a self-interpreter in a subset of R5RS Scheme. Optimise for the shortness of the interpreter and secondarily the size of the language. You may make it metacircular, but using EVAL itself is probably verboten in my opinion." 02:34:02 j-invariant: (That's what I just wrote now, not a quote.) 02:34:08 It must be able to interpret itself, obviously. 02:34:12 oh it has to be scheme 02:35:36 j-invariant: well you could do it to common lisp if you wanted i guess 02:35:40 but scheme is simpler to implement 02:38:04 j-invariant: why, what lang were you thinking of? 02:50:24 -!- benuphoenix has joined. 02:55:06 -!- benuphoenix has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:05:02 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:07:00 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:17:03 oh man, this is so close to working 03:18:08 Oh? 03:19:08 pikhq: yep, my metacircular subset-of-Scheme interpreter 03:20:29 procedure ...e/diuerse/d2.scm:34:5: expects 2 arguments, given 1: ((procedure? e) e) 03:20:31 hm, what :) 03:26:56 pikhq: fix my code! 03:29:25 Insufficient Calvin & Hobbes. 03:30:20 fuck yeah scheme 03:31:13 bsmntbombdood! 03:31:22 I've not seen you actually say something in ages! 03:31:24 hello 03:36:23 bsmntbombdood: less talking more pixley challenging 03:39:41 needs more call/cc 03:40:45 bsmntbombdood: if you can make the self-interpreter smaller by doing CALL-WITH-CURRENT-CONTINUATION ... be my guest but i find it unlikely 03:41:34 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:42:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:44:16 pikhq: so how do i order some piks from the hq 03:47:34 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:09:29 http://projectfortress.sun.com/Projects/Community/blog/ReplaceFancyPantsTerminology Guy L. Steele thinks that instead of saying "Commutative[Q,*]" we should say "OrderDoesn'tMatter[Q,*]". What. 04:11:54 yes, throw away existing, formally-defined terminology so someone doesn't have to learn something 04:12:19 this has nothing to do with programming languages... this post is PR or something 04:13:04 yeah i like the fortress guys but ... what on earth made him think that 04:14:35 too much chrismas spirit or someshing 04:21:54 I wonder if floating point has any "useful" properties ... i.e. can you restate basic identities in them given some well-defined error term or whatever? 04:22:15 like being able to say that a+b = b+a+error, except I'm pretty sure floating point addition is at least commutative ... 05:03:36 pikhq: Holy shit. WebTV is still marketed and sold. 05:03:38 pikhq: As the "MSN TV". 05:06:28 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 05:12:08 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:13:50 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:14:49 Holy shit. People still buy that crap? 05:18:29 http://i.imgur.com/U4mPS.png 05:18:39 rms doesn't quite give the same air as jimbo wales 05:20:56 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:22:37 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:32:29 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:39:40 are the ashes on? 05:40:50 I'm afraid some murderous robots from the planet Krikkit took them. Something about the "Wooden Bail"... 06:05:43 i hate floats 06:05:53 rational bignums ftw 06:06:07 DIE FLOATING POINT DIE 06:06:23 indeed 06:06:49 And I hate anyone who sees a coordinate system in the form of 0.54, fails to realize that it's internally an int that, in that example, stores 54, and decides to model it with floating point 06:06:59 * Gregor <3 floating point 06:09:19 * Sgeo hits Gregor with a banking program written by an idiot who used floating-point to represent currency 06:09:34 Ooooh, that's bad ... 06:11:42 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:12:41 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:20:18 -!- TLUL has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:22:06 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 06:38:31 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:39:34 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:40:12 zzo38: are the ashes on 06:41:11 j-invariant: I don't know. Did you ask a question about TeXnicard after I quit earlier today? 06:41:21 yes what is TeXnicard 06:41:21 -!- wareya has joined. 06:42:03 j-invariant: TeXnicard is a program designed for making high-quality production quality cards such as Magic: the Gathering and so on, and also pack generation, statistics, and more. 06:42:30 why is stats and stuff in TeX 06:42:32 that seems totally wrong 06:42:34 It uses TeX to do the typesetting, METAFONT for fonts and set symbols, and ImageMagick to put everything together and apply. 06:42:40 like 100% totally totally wrong 06:42:43 oh cool zzo38 that sounds good 06:42:43 coppro: The stats and stuff is not in TeX. 06:42:47 zzo38: oh 06:42:54 j-invariant: basically he's trying to replace MSE 06:43:00 TeXnicard is not written entirely in TeX. It only uses TeX for the typesetting. 06:43:02 knowing zzo38 it will likely not happen 06:43:06 but if it does, <3 06:45:23 I have actually already written much of TeXnicard already. 06:47:19 It is already 71 pages long so far. 06:47:41 pages? 06:47:45 you measure code in pages? 06:48:15 coppro: Yes. (Note this count also include the index and table of contents) 06:48:41 oh god 06:48:44 are you using CWEB? 06:48:50 coppro: I am using Enhanced CWEB. 06:48:54 oh dear 06:49:24 coppro: Is such a thing wrong? 06:51:59 CWEB makes me twitch 06:52:13 coppro: Why? 06:52:52 because it's so focused on making documentation out of code 06:53:11 but this is usually unnecessary 06:53:40 you're doing something wrong if you need a paragraph of text to accomplish each paragraph of code 06:53:58 coppro: A paragraph of text is not necessary for most of the paragraphs of code. 06:54:07 But sometimes it is useful to do so. 06:54:24 in which regular comments usually do fine 06:54:36 coppro, Factor separates code and docs into separate files 06:55:02 Even for the ones without, it is useful to organize into chapters, use code chunk rearrange, index, and more things. 06:55:11 Sgeo: that I disagree with too 06:55:32 there should really be two sorts of docs 06:55:39 API docs and comments 06:55:49 API docs are "how to use this piece of code" 06:55:52 Code and explanation is printed together in one book. 06:56:08 while comments let someone looking at a confusing block of code understand it 06:56:12 API docs should be separate 06:56:15 Mostly the explanations are about the "higher purpose" of the code. 06:56:30 It can be written as you write a book. 06:56:30 putting API docs in comments and exracting them automatically is ok 06:58:26 I generally only put explanations where I think it to be necessary or if it is an interesting thing to put in the book. 06:59:34 Enhanced CWEB has other features too, such as change files, and code generation (I used some @{ ... @} blocks for interpreted codes for code generation in this program, too) 07:06:34 What I see with literate programming, is basically, the program is also a book. Or in other words, the book is also a computer program. It goes both ways. 07:08:56 Even TeX itself is written in WEB!! 07:11:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:15:18 yeah, typical documentation does usually leave the super-high-level concepts out in the dust 07:15:53 Dust? 07:16:29 DRIVE THEM OUT INTO THE SAHARA 07:16:45 zzo38: as in the coders leave it behind 07:16:46 in their heads 07:17:13 oerjan: What does the Sahara have anything to do with this? 07:17:38 i hear it's rather dusty 07:18:15 coppro: Yes. That *is* one thing you do in this book. Explain it and read it at many levels, because you can read the explanation of the "higher purpose" of each chunk (and chapter), and the cross-reference of the other chunk, too. 07:18:35 zzo38: I still believe CWEB is overkill 07:19:01 coppro: That is OK, you don't have to use it. I use it, though. 07:19:04 k 07:19:15 20:09:29 http://projectfortress.sun.com/Projects/Community/blog/ReplaceFancyPantsTerminology Guy L. Steele thinks that instead of saying "Commutative[Q,*]" we should say "OrderDoesn'tMatter[Q,*]". What. 07:19:20 20:11:54 yes, throw away existing, formally-defined terminology so someone doesn't have to learn something 07:19:38 it's also imprecise, since "order doesn't matter" would tend to imply associativity as well 07:19:42 oh hello oerjan 07:19:50 hi 07:20:09 * Sgeo is so stupid sometimes 07:20:22 Trying to do 4 chapters in one night, then 7 page essay the following day 07:20:35 Well, just finished one of the chapters, at any rate 07:21:08 i am finally learning haskell ^_^ 07:21:12 you still have class 07:22:00 coppro, the grades are due in by Tuesday, the professor saidn "Can you get in the review questions and a final paper by Sunday?" 07:22:01 are the ashes on? 07:22:20 suddenly half the channel seems to be interested in cricket... 07:22:29 Sgeo: where the hell are you in school 07:22:46 I thought it might help me with my mathematics 07:22:57 you're in the land of disregarding the establishment clause, right? 07:23:00 There are no more classes, classes ended last week I think, no, that was finals week I think 07:23:21 lol 07:23:30 my school has a rule against assignments in exams 07:23:40 usually complaining doesn't do much because they make it due earlier 07:23:59 coppro, there's something you're not grasping: All of this stuff was due over the course of the semester. 07:24:01 but it would probably actually work if you tried it now given that classes ended three weeks ago 07:24:05 Sgeo: oh 07:24:08 so you're just an idiot 07:24:14 coppro, yes. 07:24:24 k the 07:25:13 This is like suddenly not showing up to class for half a semester, then trying to do all the homework and exams in a fixed time period...... and putting THOSE off until well beyond reason 07:25:26 I'm never taking an online class again. 07:30:14 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630]). 07:30:36 Sgeo what happened? 07:30:58 j-invariant, I stopped even looking at the online course for a few months 07:31:05 why? 07:31:17 were you fed up or juts thought it wasn't necessary? 07:31:41 j-invariant, because. I was overdue with one thing, and it sort of snowballed. And yeah, I may have been a bit cocky, come to think of it. Usually, in my mind, "computer course" == "easy A" 07:32:08 aw that sucks, what is the course about? 07:32:31 Cryptography and Computer Security 07:32:37 Anyways, this question looks fun 07:33:15 -!- zzo38 has set topic: If you do not have access to IRC, then please do not read this notice. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 07:33:43 zzo38: hey, think of the poor log readers! 07:35:58 cryptography is an actual science 07:36:16 like you have to weigh up advantages and stuff 07:36:53 sadly based partly on unproved conjectures 07:37:07 "Organizations may be willing to pay more for security products if the perceived risk is high, even if it’s completely off the mark from the actual risk. For instance, currently, in the U.S., a lot of money is being spent on controversial back-scatter machines for airports. It is unclear that the machines are effective, however, in the minds of many, the risk of terrorist attack outweights the risk of automobile accidents, although the latt 07:37:08 er claim many more lives, and might be a more worthwhile thing to invest against (depending on what can be invested on to prevent such accidents with effectiveness)." 07:37:10 Sorry 07:37:20 I think I'm not forming my ideas coherently anymore 07:38:32 Can you find a proof, counterexample, or proof that there is no proof? 07:38:51 zzo38: was that a response to me? 07:39:06 Or proof of the opposite, even though you can find no counterexample? 07:39:12 oerjan: Partially, yes. 07:39:16 it's based on evidence rather than mathematical proof 07:40:22 zzo38: one _might_. finding a proof would require proving the P!=NP conjecture. 07:41:12 the opposite might be somewhat weaker 07:43:00 while there is no actual proof of P!=NP yet, there are some results that imply the "easy" methods of complexity theory cannot work to resolve it 07:43:43 I always wanted to learn those theorems 07:43:54 think it would take years though.. 07:44:16 there are statements like that about fermats last thoerem and four color thoerem? I think 07:44:35 i haven't heard about those... 07:44:46 maybe that's my imagination 07:45:12 there were of course many false leads, which might vaguely be interpreted as such theorems 07:46:09 Is there such a thing as a proof that there is no proof that there is a proof of such a theorem? 07:47:19 Wooo! 07:47:24 2 chapters down, 2 to go 07:47:45 Didn't even read the chapter, just the questions :/ 07:47:55 I don't think I mentioned computing even once... oh, I did 07:48:00 Railed against the Cloud a bit 07:48:01 zzo38: probably. there are some restrictions though. for example if you proved that there was no disproof of fermat's last theorem, then you would have proved it... this is because there is an explicit, if non-terminating algorithm to find any counterexample. 07:48:42 oh and proofs that there are no proof need to be conditional on the consistency of the system, to avoid godel's theorems 07:48:48 oerjan: O, I guess you are right! That would work. A counterexample is a disproof. 07:49:16 oerjan: Ah, you must be right about that too. 07:50:11 How many years before IRC did Hofstadter write the GEB book? 07:51:25 IRC is from 1988 and GEB was published in 1979 07:51:43 how come it's popular now? 07:51:49 says wikipedia 07:53:14 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:53:37 7 page paper. Written on lack of sleep. It's going to be fun on a bun 07:56:11 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:57:09 Sgeo: just hope you don't wake up and discover it consists only of repetitions of "All work and no play makes Seth a dull boy" 07:57:51 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:58:51 lol 07:59:41 oerjan: Well, it will be glad that it doesn't say that! (It says "Jack" instead of "Seth") 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:51 well in any case i'm sure his paper will set a shining example 08:01:38 oerjan: Do you think he has enough shiny ink? 08:01:44 I watched that movie a long time ago. I remember nothing about it 08:01:54 Watched it at a sleepover iirc 08:02:01 Or I could be hallucinating 08:02:20 I think there was also The Excorcist, which I declined to watch, and some stupid movie about Martians 08:02:38 I think I've only ever been to one sleepover in my life, so 08:02:43 Except on a class trip 08:02:47 I'm rambling 08:03:34 Supposedly, I didn't eat on that trip 08:04:15 Or I could be misremembering someone screaming about that at me, my memory of the trip itself is hazy 08:04:19 so it was an evil camp where they starved children. got it. 08:04:29 But it sounds like something I might do, but that's not reliable 08:04:42 oerjan, there was almost certainly food. I can just imagine myself not touching it thogh 08:04:53 Maybe I drank Ensure. Used to have Ensure for lunch every day 08:05:05 If everything is an illusion and nothing exists, do you think he definitely overpaid for his carpet, or do you think the money you used to pay for it is all hallucination? 08:05:20 zzo38: is that a quote? 08:05:47 ah woody allen 08:05:55 oerjan: No. It is something I wrote in the margin of a book, next to a similar quote. 08:06:41 zzo38: it could be both... even illusionary money can be a scarce resource 08:07:01 oerjan: OK. 08:07:17 which iiuc is all that matters to economists 08:07:53 in fact our modern money is quite close to being an illusion already 08:07:56 -!- CoBa has joined. 08:08:01 But then, everything being an illusion and nothing exists, does not *make* it he definitely overpaid for his carpet, directly. It might imply such a thing *indirectly*, though. 08:08:09 (For example, if the carpet is expensive) 08:08:58 zzo38: i am quite sure woody allen was joking, anyway 08:09:38 oerjan: Yes, of course. But this quote was in a book about philosophy (along with many other things, some of which are jokes). 08:11:00 -!- CoBa has quit (Quit: ). 08:22:57 This philosophy also contains a recipe for some Chinese food: 08:23:20 1 pcs. chicken, 4 pcs. preserved beancurd, some gingar, chive, salt, sugar, gourmet powder, syrup, perfune, wine. 08:23:49 After wash, apply the preserved beaucurd, gingar, chive, salt, monosodium, sugar, syrup, perfume, wine into the bally of chicken, sew with iron needle. 08:24:13 After scalded by boiling water, pour water on duck, apply the syrup on the skin. 08:24:16 Hang it with cancel. 08:24:26 Then roast the chicken for ripe and skinn turn into gold-red colour. 08:29:32 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Surely you are joking, Mr. Feynman!). 08:35:47 -!- asiekierka has joined. 08:35:52 http://pastebin.com/idZbZm8A <- my work of yesterday 08:36:40 app stored in app.txt, in binary (for example: 0000 0011, non-01 chars are ignored) 08:38:47 brainf**k can be implemented in it so it seems turing-complete 08:40:12 asiekierka: don't you mean s/shift/rotate/ ? 08:40:34 yes, yes i do 08:40:51 the interpreter is not really good 08:40:52 but it works 08:40:55 i've tested all the commands 08:41:14 i assume those shift/rotate operations are what makes it more than a pushdown automaton in power 08:41:44 well 08:41:45 is it any good 08:44:45 it seems a bit run-of-the-mill to me 08:59:08 3/4 09:00:54 3/4 what 09:01:11 Chapters of Review Questions 09:04:23 0000 0000 0111 09:04:24 1000 0001 1101 0000 1101 0111 0001 1100 0111 0001 1100 0111 1001 09:04:31 code to duplicate value on the top of the stack 09:04:34 well, not quite 09:04:45 0000 0000 0111 09:04:45 1000 0001 1101 0000 1101 0111 0001 1100 0111 0001 1100 0110 0110 1001 09:05:33 i'll have to work on it 09:14:59 0000 0000 0110 0110 09:14:59 1000 0001 1101 0000 1101 0111 0001 1100 0111 0001 1100 0110 0110 1001 09:15:01 there, fixed 09:15:05 first line is initalization 09:15:10 second line is copy 09:15:20 you're left with two values, counting from the top of the stack they're 0, 2, 2 09:16:43 "If we think of documentation as a written work of nonfiction (or, perhaps, fiction)" 09:18:25 it seems a bit run-of-the-mill to me 09:18:32 that inspired me for a name for my esolang 09:18:34 -!- variable has joined. 09:18:36 stackmill 09:20:04 variable = "I am too tired to actually think of anything creative here"; 09:20:07 http://pastebin.com/FADctGjY 09:20:32 Sgeo, ? 09:20:53 My way of both saying hi and trying and failing to be humorous 09:21:05 Sgeo, variable == "I don't like being googled' 09:21:10 and Hi 09:21:53 http://codepad.org/R1ydyMJ8 --> does anyone see anything wrong with this implementation of brainfuck ? 09:22:06 Oh, I wasn't saying you weren't creative 09:22:09 I was saying I was 09:22:18 I am doing half a semester's worth of homework in one night 09:22:21 variable i don't think so 09:22:25 sorry http://codepad.org/7jjWZ8QN 09:22:31 but you could keep a stack of instruction pointers for the [...] 09:22:36 that would speed it up A LOT 09:22:48 asiekierka, yeah - but it would complicate the code :-) 09:22:52 yes 09:23:08 asiekierka, problem is .. its Not Working for any code with []s 09:23:10 but I don' 09:23:13 but I don't see why 09:23:28 Sgeo, what class? 09:23:40 Cryptography and Computer Security 09:23:53 Sgeo, fun - the best class :-) 09:24:13 variable, unless you screw up like I have and don't do any work for a few months 09:24:35 asiekierka, do you see anything wrong with my [ and ] implementation ? 09:24:47 Sgeo, ha 09:25:27 variable: the test for ] should be != 0, not == 0 09:25:46 variable i am busy porting my stackmill interp to the GBA 09:25:48 stackmill is my own esolang 09:26:13 oerjan, oh woops. that was a copy/paste error ;-) 09:27:15 I wish I knew this channel existed 09:27:24 oerjan, hah! I'm getting more work done while in here than I ever have while forced out! 09:27:27 my computers are named after esoteric programming languages 09:27:33 your wish has been fulfilled! 09:27:34 ie AlphaBeta Bork, 09:27:38 BrainFk 09:27:39 etc 09:27:46 Sgeo: heh 09:27:54 Sgeo, knew != know 09:28:36 variable: wishes sometimes tend to come with uncomfortable delays 09:28:45 sadly 09:29:13 * Sgeo decides not to state his sexual wishes in the channel 09:29:44 ^^even that might have been a bit much 09:30:06 Sgeo: i don't think that is very revealing 09:30:18 It might give variable a wrong impression 09:30:27 oerjan, thanks for the bugfix 09:30:42 you're welcome 09:30:42 now.. to see if I make it just as simple... without the stack/programsize limitation \ 09:32:11 ,[.,] --> cat in brainfuck :-) 09:33:38 ^show cat 09:33:38 ,[.,] 09:33:55 Our "echo" command is a bit on the whimsical side. 09:33:58 ^echo Hello? 09:33:58 Hello? Hello? 09:34:03 :-| 09:34:06 ^help 09:34:06 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 09:34:11 ^code 09:34:14 ^source 09:34:14 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 09:34:20 I always forget which one it is. 09:34:26 :-) 09:34:48 someone should rewrite it in INTERCAL 09:35:11 I'm guessing that'd be a good idea if that someone were paid by line. 09:35:38 fungot: Say something insightful this time? 09:35:39 fizzie: and the blots are removed from that player loses one blue vc. a unique instance of a 09:35:41 ^style 09:35:42 Available: agora* alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 09:35:44 ^style irc 09:35:44 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 09:35:54 fungot: The agora style isn't very insightful. 09:35:55 fizzie: what language? answered my question already 09:36:52 fizzie, you don't know of Agora? 09:37:18 Also, blots are OLD 09:37:23 Oldie oldie old 09:37:26 Sgeo: I do, but it stil doesn't make that very insightful. 09:37:52 Yes, well, the model was built out of some sort of a collection of both current and historical rules. 09:39:35 its 430 AM 09:39:41 * variable has NO idea why I'm up 09:46:17 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:48:08 -!- pikhq has joined. 10:07:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:29:28 yay 10:29:35 ported my interpreter to GBA 10:29:38 and found a bug in libgba's printf 10:29:45 so i had to use an itoa 10:45:05 libgba ? 10:45:11 game boy advanced/ 10:45:18 also -> what bug? 11:03:20 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 11:04:30 printf("%d",i) for i values over 9 breaks 12:09:34 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:15:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:16:17 printf("%d",i) for i values over 9 breaks 13:16:36 someone thought %d was for "digit"? :D 13:19:59 asiekierka, hm... reported the bug? 13:21:16 asiekierka, hm is it a freestanding or a hosted environment? 13:21:21 (in the C sense) 13:21:49 quoting C99: "A conforming freestanding implementation shall accept any strictly conforming program that does not use complex types and in which the use of the features specified in the library clause (clause 7) is confined to the contents of the standard headers , , , , , , and . " 13:22:13 notably this does not include stdio.h 13:23:27 I'm not sure, but I *think* this means that *iff* it is a freestanding implementation, then it can do what the hell it wants in stdio.h, including making demons fly out of your nose. 13:23:50 err wait no 13:24:16 "A conforming implementation may have extensions (including additional library functions), provided they do not alter the behavior of any strictly conforming programĀ³ā¾" 13:24:57 "Ā³ā¾ This implies that a conforming implementation reserves no identifiers other than those explicitly reserved in this International Standard." 13:25:06 hm 13:25:39 well that last bit is not in the bit that is specifically about freestanding 13:25:50 so I'm not sure how you should interpret it 13:27:48 atm I'm tying to figure out this statement: "A program that is correct in all other aspects, operating on correct data, containing unspecified behavior shall be a correct program and act in accordance with 5.1.2.3." 13:30:12 Vorpal 13:30:13 about the bug 13:30:21 it only happens in the best GBA emulator available, NO$GBA 13:30:27 it doesn't happen on the worse emulators (VisualBoyAdvance) 13:30:28 or the real thing 13:30:55 (btw, of those headers required in a freestanding environment, only stdarg.h and float.h are non-trivial.) 13:31:09 asiekierka, maybe it isn't the best emulator then 13:32:20 (actually, it seems float.h is trivial too) 13:42:06 Vorpal sadly it is 13:42:11 it implements the most features and quirks 13:42:13 out of all emulators 13:42:36 has a debugger (paid, though) 13:42:41 and is recommended by most homebrew devers 13:44:07 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:44:33 -!- variable has joined. 14:11:52 Errr... What does printf("%d",i) do if i is 10 on that platform? 14:13:53 it prints 10 14:13:53 obviously 14:14:00 but on GBA with the NO$GBA emulator 14:14:06 (which is the best emulator for it) 14:14:08 it crashes the machinr 14:14:10 machine* 14:15:11 Figured out what instruction inside printf crashes it? 14:18:42 i don't care 14:18:47 it does not happen on the real thing 14:18:48 so it's OK 14:19:13 and i've just found a custom itoa function for that 14:32:24 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:34:38 -!- variable has joined. 14:41:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:42:02 Hi, everybody! 14:44:42 hey 14:51:08 hello 14:51:43 while it is quite easy to write a Makefile that fails with -j2 or such, I wonder if you can write one that fails *without* -j2. 14:52:00 and that works reliably with -j2 14:52:23 I mean, if you only wanted to make it work *sometimes* with -j2, and never without -j it would be rather trivial. 15:07:57 How could such makefile even be constructed? It would have to contain race condition or unstated dependency... 15:11:28 And that kind of stuff tends to make it nondeterministic... 15:12:56 ... Unless the executables do some bizarre stuff... 15:13:24 But then the makefile would probably lock up if run without -j2... 15:14:35 hm 15:15:42 Ilari, well it could build and run an executable that checked /proc// for command line 15:15:52 cheating though 15:18:23 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Stackmill 15:45:01 Vorpal, has ineiros updated the server yet? 15:50:11 Phantom_Hoover, as far as I know it worked yesterday morning yes 15:50:27 ...and, I just died. 15:50:29 In lava. 15:50:34 With my full inventory. 15:50:37 Due to a bug. 15:50:40 Effing Notch. 15:54:06 Also, the advice I was given by the intel-gfx people to fix my graphics drivers has resulted in them being stupid with normal-maps. 16:02:37 -!- sftp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:10:26 Phantom_Hoover, was the bug exiting a minecraft by breaking it? 16:10:36 Vorpal, yes. 16:10:44 -!- asiekierka has quit. 16:11:03 oh wait, you been away, ehird complained about it too 16:11:50 btw, wrote guide for how to get a h8300-hitachi-hms cross toolchain working on modern Linux. 16:11:58 if anyone needs that I could upload it somewhere 16:12:19 (you need quite a few patches to make it build and work on recent systems) 16:13:04 people who might care: Anyone who has a Lego RCX and want to write C code for it (custom firmware). 16:26:14 anyway http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/lego/rcx-toolchain-guide/guide.html 16:31:01 -!- elliott has joined. 16:34:30 elliott, hi 16:34:43 hi 16:34:45 Phantom_Hoover, where did that happen btw? 16:34:53 elliott, an MC bug ate my inventory! 16:34:54 Phantom_Hoover, I think removing the lava below might help 16:35:08 elliott, he is talking about the hitting minecraft bug 16:35:25 Vorpal, erm... IIRC it was the subtree end of the subtree-crossroads link. 16:35:37 The spawn is a lie. 16:35:43 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, it's happened to me. Several times. 16:35:48 Phantom_Hoover: Get out of your cart before hitting it, it's all that helps. 16:35:57 Phantom_Hoover, crossroad being the tunnel to fizzie's? 16:36:04 Vorpal, yes. 16:36:06 right 16:42:12 why is it so laggy 16:42:32 Hoover Heavy Industries accepts no responsibility for anyone who is heavy, or industrious. That is all. 16:42:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:43:01 elliott, are you behind the lagginess? 16:43:18 I suspect the server is torrenting. 16:43:26 hm 16:43:28 well it is down now 16:43:36 Or else the beta is really so bad that three people is too much work. 16:43:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:43:46 elliott, in other news, the Xorg Intel graphics developers have failed me! 16:43:47 ineiros_, what is going on? 16:44:06 elliott, were you doing something strange when it went down? 16:44:09 (or PH) 16:44:17 Vorpal: No. 16:44:21 Vorpal: Stop asking. 16:44:37 Vorpal, I was heading northwards, towards ineiros.. 16:44:45 What the hell is that thing. 16:44:49 (If it were an HHI activity, it would be secret anyway, so there is no point in asking; but lagging the server is not good for business, so that is extremely unlikely.) 16:44:51 Phantom_Hoover: What thing. 16:44:57 The crenellated wall, with torches. 16:45:01 Phantom_Hoover: Pic? 16:45:05 I was looking at it when the server failed 16:45:18 Pic would be nice :P 16:45:28 Don't have one, but if you went towards ineiros' fortress from spawn you'd've seen it. 17:17:38 -!- sftp has joined. 17:17:53 elliott, fizzie: mcmap bug report: planting a sapling: "[DIED] protocol.c: 361: Unknown packet id: 0x40 (dir 2)" 17:17:58 I'm 17:17:59 oops 17:18:14 Vorpal: I don't dig into the protocol stuff mostly; fizzie's your man there. 17:18:23 elliott, ah oka[DIED] protocol.c: 361: Unknown packet id: 0x40 (dir 2)y 17:18:24 gah 17:18:30 * Vorpal STABS SYNERGY 17:18:34 Oka[DIED] protocol.c: 361: Unknown packet id: 0x40 (dir 2)y yourself. 17:18:39 elliott, okay was what I said 17:18:44 Vorpal: Have you tried that maintained fork of Synergy? 17:18:44 but then I got a pseduo-paste 17:18:52 elliott, well, I probably should 17:18:54 "Synergy+ and Synergy have now combined efforts. Visit the new Synergy website." 17:18:55 heh 17:19:03 http://synergy-foss.org/ 17:19:14 "Synergy+ and Synergy have now merged! However, we'll still be using the old synergy-plus source code repository and mailing lists (just because there's no reason to migrate away). For those of you who are new: Synergy+ was started by Sorin SbĆ¢rnea and Nick Bolton in 2009 for the purpose of fixing bugs in the original version by Chris Schoeneman (which had temporarily paused development in 2006). Synergy+ and original Synergy have now combined e 17:19:14 fforts for the benefit of the Open Source community." 17:19:21 elliott, I use whatever is called synergy on in the package repo. And since one is ubuntu the other arch then it might cause issues 17:19:33 Vorpal: Try http://synergy-foss.org/packages/?C=M;O=D. 17:19:42 elliott, yeah, will shortly 17:19:56 Vorpal: Debian squeeze appears to still have old-Synergy, and links to the website which now says "lol go here instead". 17:19:57 So heh. 17:26:29 -!- j-invariant has joined. 17:35:23 Recovered my laptop from the idiotic hoard. 17:35:26 *hoarde 17:57:55 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:59:06 -!- Leonidas_ has joined. 18:01:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:01:53 -!- Leonidas has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:01:54 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:11:47 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:12:29 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:18:32 Phantom_Hoover: They... took your laptop? And you didn't immediately kill them? 18:18:50 elliott, no, since I would have got in trouble for that. 18:19:08 Phantom_Hoover: Vorpal: Look at this: http://i.imgur.com/YF0nLl.jpg 18:19:09 See sign. 18:19:13 SEEMS IT'S A KNOWN BUG 18:19:16 I locked the screen before I gave in, so they couldn't do anything. 18:19:24 Notch Quality Engineering 18:19:55 elliott, but how did they manage to get stuff into it? 18:20:09 Vorpal: Dig into it, make space, put things there. 18:20:20 Vorpal: Or, no, wait. 18:20:24 Vorpal: I'm fairly sure that's a real hole. 18:20:36 Disguised as an imaginary one. 18:20:40 elliott, haha 18:20:53 "hey! I made it last night :) I'm glad people enjoy it. I'ts supposed to look like a chunk error." 18:20:54 Indeed. 18:23:07 elliott, why did you loose connection? server said it was due to disconnect.genericReason on his side 18:23:15 Vorpal: I closed the game :P 18:23:20 Without disconnecting first. 18:23:21 elliott, how? 18:23:22 ah 18:23:32 To watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCJeUvqFuA0. 18:23:39 The music was getting in the way. 18:26:23 elliott, he has an issue, all won't go off at once (you need something like redstone activation to get all to start counting down at once) 18:26:48 Vorpal: Doesn't matter, it worked anyway (and impressive result) 18:26:56 Anyone have a convenient link to a rant on the "This page is best viewed with ." things you see everywhere? 18:27:00 Vorpal: You'll notice a familiar figure when he reconnects :P 18:27:09 Phantom_Hoover: http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/ 18:28:06 the explosion was cool 18:28:37 the water in minecraft it not realistic 18:29:16 j-invariant: you can generate infinite water from a 2x2 pool 18:29:19 because of PHYSICS! 18:29:37 elliott, what's the familiar figure? 18:29:44 It looks like the statue of liberty :P 18:29:51 I thought it was intentional but maybe not. 18:29:56 Vorpal: You'll notice a familiar figure when he reconnects :P <-- hm? 18:30:00 See above. 18:30:24 Phantom_Hoover: "Obsidian is banned because it takes too long to destroy" "Fire is banned because it can crash clients" "Lava is banned because it can lag the server." "Water is banned because it can lag the server." "Ice is banned because it creates water when destroyed" "TNT is banned because it lags the server." 18:30:33 Phantom_Hoover: Reddit Minecraft server -- you can, like, put GRASS and WOOD and COBBLES down! 18:31:12 elliott, they're a public, high-visibility server. 18:31:20 What'd you *expect*? 18:31:21 Phantom_Hoover: They've /banned water/. 18:31:29 I have never seen that before. 18:32:08 elliott, but what about natural water and lava? 18:32:18 Vorpal: DON'T LOOK AT IT 18:32:25 or did they remove it? 18:32:30 I doubt it :P 18:32:36 bbl 18:32:46 Phantom_Hoover: Can I expand the HHI research facility? 18:32:58 Fine. 18:33:20 Provided there are no externally-visible alterations to Mt. Hoover 18:33:29 Phantom_Hoover: There won't be. Well, unless I accidentally dig to the outside. 18:53:40 oh geez you have to play minecraft in browser... 18:54:08 j-invariant: um no 18:54:13 j-invariant: just download the .jar 18:54:22 nobody plays in browser ... partly because nothign works with it 18:54:26 i don't even think you can use texture packs in-browser 18:54:31 http://minecraft.net/download/Minecraft.jar?v=1293389628306 18:54:47 that's if you've paid ofc 18:54:51 classic is browser-only 18:55:16 ... 18:55:21 ? 18:55:35 I don't want to buy it, I don't even know if it works 18:55:52 j-invariant: pirate it and see? :p 18:56:01 :S 18:56:13 j-invariant: it does work though ... 18:56:17 at least on debian and i know plenty of players on ubuntu 18:56:37 it's just, I was trying it in browser. No wonder /that/ doesn't work 18:56:58 you mean Classic in browser? 18:57:01 yeah that doesn't work for me either 18:57:04 i just get a black screen 18:57:06 Alpha works perfectly though 18:57:46 You need the Sun's (still can't get myself to say Oracle's) JVM for it to work. 18:57:54 Well, "perfectly" is a relative term. 18:58:08 ineiros_: I use OpenJDK. 18:58:11 ineiros_: So, nope. 18:58:14 "Notch" and "perfectly" are not words which fit comfortably together. 18:58:16 Oh, for it = ClassiC? 18:58:17 *Classic? 18:58:21 Alpha works with OpenJDK for me at least. 18:58:25 Faster than Whoracle's. 18:58:33 elliott: Whoa, you got it to work with that? 18:58:59 ineiros_: Yes. It didn't work at first, but now it does and it's faster than Sun's./ 18:59:28 ineiros_: http://sprunge.us/GJET Those are my packages (on Debian testing). 18:59:47 My launch script: 18:59:50 #!/bin/sh 18:59:50 exec java -Xmx2048M -Xms1024M -cp "$(dirname "$0")/launcher.jar" net.minecraft.LauncherFrame 18:59:58 elliott: Yes, being faster is no surprise. But at least the previous versions didn't work. I have to try that when I get my new system. 19:00:02 ineiros_: I think maybe you have to use Sun the first time and then it works. 19:00:13 ineiros_: Like, maybe the initial log-in only works with Sunnnnnnnn's. 19:01:30 -!- p_q has joined. 19:03:00 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 19:03:50 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:05:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:05:46 -!- Leonidas_ has changed nick to Leonidas. 19:16:47 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 19:31:13 [[Wrong language. It's a shame for me that C isn't used so much these days for applications.]] 19:31:21 ā€”An idiot. 19:31:33 Note that the wrong language is Objective-C. 19:42:25 Context? 19:45:11 http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3216&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= 19:45:39 One of the many threads where someone turns up to the Oolite boards and says "Hey, let's make this an MMO!" 19:47:10 Except this time the very well-founded reasons for not doing so are shrugged aside, and the person ploughs on regardless. 19:48:31 Highlights include the word "fidicurially". 19:49:31 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 19:50:54 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 19:51:52 Phantom_Hoover, as far as I can tell "fidicurially" is not a word, does it context let you figure out the intended meaning of it? (If so: what is it?) 19:52:14 Vorpal, he meant "fiduciary". 19:52:44 Phantom_Hoover, a word I have to admit I'm not familiar with either 19:52:47 * Vorpal looks it up 19:52:56 Monetary? 19:53:11 English: the Perl of human languages. 19:53:34 elliott: thoughts on functor equality? 19:53:38 "a person who holds assets in trust for a beneficiary; "it is illegal for a fiduciary to misappropriate money for personal gain"" 19:53:39 hm 19:54:19 Phantom_Hoover, I have no doubt there are weird words like this in Swedish too, some that I know, some that I don't 19:54:28 j-invariant: does it work? if so it's good :P 19:54:31 elliott: so a functor F:C-->D maps objects of C into D like X:C |- FX : D, but also maps maps like f : X --> Y |- Ff : FX --> FY 19:55:05 elliott: I did manage to define it earlier but the proof is horrific. Hoping to simplify it 19:55:40 that would be nice 19:56:34 elliott: this time I define it like F = F' when we have an isomorphism i between FX and F'X, and (dependent pair) Ff . pi1 iso Y = pi1 iso X . F'f 19:57:33 elliott: http://coq.pastebin.com/nFRZJ7cR 19:58:12 elliott: even with the proof machine on my side it's not looking good :/ line 580 19:59:43 yeah that looks scary 20:01:13 j-invariant, aaaaaaa 20:07:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:08:20 j-invariant, what are you trying to prove today? 20:08:59 ineiros_, elliott: is the server about to be hmodified or has it recently been? 20:09:18 Vorpal: I just want to show that '=' is an equivalence relation 20:09:43 j-invariant, doesn't coq has that in the its standard library or such? 20:09:51 no it's my own definition 20:10:33 j-invariant, how does the standard library do then? 20:10:36 do it* 20:10:57 I don't use that library here 20:14:21 ineiros_: I've used OpenJDK and OpenJDK only, and I've actually told you this. 20:14:54 j-invariant, yeah but is it as messy as the way you do it? 20:15:07 (well not sure it is messy, but you seemed to imply that) 20:15:19 Vorpal: it's a totally different structure. so. 20:15:21 fizzie, btw saw what I said above about mcmap crashing on placing a sapling? 20:15:22 elliott, ah 20:15:42 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:16:32 I need to prove Ff o fgX = fgY o Gf, Gf o ghY = ghX o Hf |- Ff o (fgY o ghY) = (fgX o ghX) o Hf 20:17:21 first step is to change the goal into (Ff o fgY) o ghY = fgX o (ghX o Hf). Then you can use the hypothesis 20:19:38 Vorpal: No, been away. I'll take a look at some point, still more christmasy things to do first though. 20:20:14 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 20:23:12 0x40 is not a (wiki-)known packet type, so it probably has just gotten desynchronized again. 20:23:20 I need a decision producedure that does rewrites, not just associativity 20:23:26 elliott: :) 20:23:26 j-invariant: I think I have a better structure for algebraic things now. 20:23:32 oh neat 20:23:33 how does it work? 20:23:37 Definition is_ring S plus plus0 times times1 := 20:23:37 is_pseudo_ring S plus plus0 times /\ 20:23:37 is_monoid S times times1. 20:23:38 like that 20:23:53 then e.g. integers are the ring (Z,+,0,*,1) 20:24:16 that could work actually 20:25:10 yeah, unfortunately I think there may be one issue 20:25:17 Definition is_pseudo_ring S plus plus0 times := 20:25:17 is_abelian_group S plus plus0 /\ 20:25:17 is_semigroup S times. 20:25:18 Definition is_ring S plus plus0 times times1 := 20:25:18 is_pseudo_ring S plus plus0 times /\ 20:25:18 is_monoid S times times1. 20:25:24 you might have to prove (S,*) is a semigroup /twice/ 20:25:26 because of that 20:25:27 but maybe not 20:26:57 what about having 20:27:20 Definition is_pseduo_ring S plus plus0 times semigroupPrf := is_abelian_group S plus plus0. 20:28:14 in fact, you could just have is_pseudo_ring ... := True. because it takes both proofs as arguments 20:28:35 j-invariant: nah, because 20:28:40 j-invariant: then you have to do "eapply" 20:28:42 which doesn't really work 20:28:44 this is much easier to prove 20:28:45 also, 20:28:45 fizzie, hm... 20:28:48 Theorem Z_ring : is_ring Z Zplus 0%Z Zmult 1%Z. 20:28:54 and then having is_ring -> is_lower_thing 20:28:56 is much nicer to do IMO 20:29:00 okay 20:29:16 fizzie, well, if it got desynced... well I was just working on my tree farm before 20:29:29 cutting down trees and so on 20:29:51 fizzie, also I believe PH just parted a second before or so. I don't know if he rejoined again 20:29:56 j-invariant: man, omega can't prove (a*b*c) = (a*(b*c)) in Z 20:29:57 how stupid si that 20:29:58 *is 20:31:33 -!- calamari has joined. 20:31:38 hi 20:32:54 hi 20:33:01 j-invariant: http://sprunge.us/ECba includes (really simple!) proof that stdlib Z is a ring 20:33:27 j-invariant: erm it's duplicatd 20:33:30 j-invariant: just cut everything after Qed. 20:35:54 "...[I]n 1902, the American company Hamilton Beach patented the first electric vibrator available for retail sale, making the vibrator the fifth domestic appliance to be electrified, after the sewing machine, fan, tea kettle, and toaster, and about a decade before the vacuum cleaner and electric iron." 20:38:24 wrong channel? 20:38:36 (or was it completely out of any context?) 20:38:57 Isn't pasting things without context a CHANNEL TRADITION. 20:38:59 s/out of/without/ 20:39:16 elliott, hm true 20:39:46 elliott, btw if seems a sapling can grow if you stand on it, and you will suffocate then. 20:39:57 Indeed. 20:40:25 elliott, I have not yet hit that myself, but saw it on the wiki. Makes me a bit nervous about my tree farm 20:41:52 this equivalence of functors is just not working 20:49:44 elliott: omega the ordinal number? What does it mean for an ordinal number to prove a statement? 20:50:03 tswett: Omega the tactic. 20:51:06 Ah. Is it supposed to be a tactic that figures stuff out automatically? 20:52:03 tswett: Yes. :p 20:52:12 tswett: I forget the exact solver it uses. 21:05:46 j-invariant: I think I have up to integral domains 21:17:29 oh yeah try fields 21:18:17 elliott: see eq_functors_lemma1 and 2. http://coq.pastebin.com/HRiZqtC9 21:18:26 oh yeah try fields 21:18:28 NOT RIGHT NOW :D 21:18:30 too much pain 21:18:40 j-invariant: that first lemma is the ... wow. 21:18:48 the second is even more wow. 21:19:06 I just copy the proof state and turn it into a lemma 21:19:37 they are very simple theorems, it's just proving them takes a lot of effort and typing.. 21:20:07 but if I had a decision procedure that took equations of the form fg = id into account :( 21:20:22 actually I don't think it would handle these 21:22:17 elliott: but programming a solver that takes inverses into account is probably really hard 21:22:48 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:23:07 j-invariant: you can make a lot of effort now and have it easy later ... or you can continually make a lot of slightly milder effort forever ... i usually do the latter :-) 21:23:25 -!- variable has joined. 21:23:32 well I'm not even sure if throwing in inverses is still decidible 21:23:41 -!- invariable has joined. 21:23:46 -!- invariable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:24:57 -!- variable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:25:22 -!- variable has joined. 21:25:28 variable: stop varying your name 21:25:52 elliott, I can't help it 21:25:54 :-) 21:26:00 * variable is variable 21:26:23 maybe Knuth-Bendix 21:26:31 but I don't know much about Knuth-Bendix 21:28:56 variable: you haven't been here before have you? hi 21:30:10 elliott, I would hope I've been here before - you couldn't program without me :-) 21:30:20 also: hi 21:30:23 variable: Sure you can! 21:30:28 variable: Joy is Turing-complete. 21:30:40 Technically it has top-level function definitions but you don't /need/ them. 21:30:45 variable: BCT, also, has no variables. 21:30:53 Heck, Brainfuck doesn't... but you could consider tape cells variables. 21:30:58 *brainfuck 21:31:04 * variable googles 21:31:11 variable: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BCT :) 21:31:34 elliott, BCT would be my next computer.... (my computer names are esoteric programming languages) 21:31:52 Really? Ha 21:31:59 "And over here we have brainfuck..." 21:32:52 So far I have AlphaBeta, Babbage, and ByteByte :-) 21:33:23 fungot: say hi to variable 21:33:24 elliott: i was doing hw instructions would be and., and in the alternative syntax for c 21:44:52 elliott: help! 21:46:10 j-invariant: ? 21:47:09 Joy has no variab.. hmm, I guess that makes sense. Factor's variables are conveniences 21:47:21 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Bye). 21:47:28 Maybe I should learn Joy 21:47:46 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Joy doesn't exist 21:47:49 Learning Factor might have been like learning an impure language instead of haskell for a first functional language 21:47:52 Joy isn't esoteric 21:47:57 elliott, down? 21:48:08 Vorpal: no 21:48:25 variable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joy_%28programming_language%29 21:48:29 variable: try Underload for the esoteric version :) 21:48:29 variable: http://www.latrobe.edu.au/philosophy/phimvt/joy.html 21:48:31 elliott: I need a way to prove these lemmas quickly 21:48:34 Underload, yeah 21:48:39 j-invariant: no idea, sorry :( 21:49:05 Ok, Joy syntax is ugly to my eyes 21:49:37 Although I'm just having an immediate knee-jerk reaction 21:49:42 Joy is wonderful. 21:49:42 I'm going to go AFK for a bit 21:49:52 ^ul (12)S(*a(~:)~*^~):((1)S)~*~((2)S:*)~*:(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^ 21:49:54 122112122122112112212112122112112122122112122121121122122112122122112112122121122122112122122112112212112122122112112122112112212112112212211212212112212212112112212211212212112112212112122112112122121122122112122122112112122112112212212112122112112212112112212212112122112112122122112122121121122122121122122112122122112112 ...too much output! 21:49:59 ineiros_, what the heck is going on with your connection? 21:50:05 elliott, I don't need two concatenative languages competing for my heart 21:50:08 elliott, and presumably also joyful 21:50:51 elliott: maybe some way to extend the prover 21:51:54 Sgeo: You'd hate Joy, it doesn't have aaaaaaaaaaaany libraries at all. 21:52:21 Neither does LSL. Oh wait, I hate LSL (but for different reasons) 21:52:41 Actually, that is an issue with LSL, come to think of it 21:54:50 ^ul (0)S((0)(1))(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ 21:54:50 011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110 ...too much output! 21:55:07 TIL that The Blue Valley has named parts 21:55:17 http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=37685 21:56:03 what program is good for playing s3m files? 21:56:17 Vorpal: I may have used the connection again. Maybe I should try to setup some connection priorization at some point. 21:56:23 j-invariant, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUn9SYdPF4A&feature=related is the same thing fwiw 21:56:34 But um... hm 21:56:36 VLC? 21:57:39 o.O http://www.aufgang.org/koch/homepage/music.asp 22:04:14 ineiros_, well it seems completely lag spiky atm 22:05:50 ineiros_, maybe you should give backup bulk priority or something? 22:06:13 ineiros_, I'm giving up on mining obsidian atm 22:06:35 Well, xmp is one sensible app for s3m files. 22:06:44 For some values of sensible. 22:06:47 ineiros_, connection lost 22:06:55 The mikmod player is pretty horrible. 22:09:19 VLC plays with ModPlug-derived code, I think. 22:10:09 ineiros_, tell me when it is up? 22:10:19 Vorpal: Or just wait. 22:10:36 o.O http://www.aufgang.org/koch/homepage/music.asp 22:10:37 What? 22:11:50 Should be up now. 22:28:27 The ashes is on 22:30:44 zzo: what are the rules 22:36:06 -!- chickenzilla has joined. 22:56:32 why would a .xm file be 30 MB? 22:56:50 0_0 22:57:10 someone is using lots of very large samples 22:57:35 oh wait it's only 4 MB, not sure what happened there 22:57:39 maybe I just misread it 23:10:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ2BcvowYl8 23:10:52 * Sgeo gets AW nostalgia issues from seeing the stone path 23:11:27 oh, it's not a play of the plot of Legend of Zelda? 23:11:28 Meh 23:13:30 I like the music 23:13:39 Hmm, agreed 23:47:41 Maybe it was 30 megabits? That's close-ish to 4 MB. 23:47:48 haha